# NEW TANKS



## rbP NUT (Dec 2, 2003)

Here are some key points to consider when creating a new aquarium :

It takes 21 days for a new tank to become established 
Two beneficial bacteria are important in aquaria, 
Nitrosomonas - convert ammonia to nitrite 
Nitrobacter - convert nitrites to nitrates 
These bacteria can be added to the tank to get it going by : 
Adding some gravel from an established, disease free tank 
Adding a starter preparation - commercially available 
Adding a pinch of garden soil containing the bacteria 
To avoid cloudy water wash new gravel up to12 times with a hose until the run off water is clean 
Disinfect all rocks before introducing them into the tank using Potassium permanganate - in 3mg/litre water for 24 hours or 15 mins in 7.5mg/litre, OR a special aquarium disinfectant DO NOT use household disinfectants. 
Add plants, rocks, set up under-gravel filters etc and switch everything on for 2-3 days before adding any fish. 
Before adding fish to the tank check the following : 
water temperature (about 24 degrees C) 
pH (should be 7.0) 
ammonia concentration 
nitrite concentration - should be less than 0.5ppm


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

not bad, what about nitrAte level?

and i thouhght it took more than 21 days. you shuold re-word it to, a minimum if you dont add chemicals of 21 days


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## rbP NUT (Dec 2, 2003)

nitrAte level will always be present, water changes and plants help keep them to a minimum, 21 days is taken under perfect and natural conditions. i have heard of cycles taking 2 days with adding bio spira.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

RBP NUT not to bad! I'm impressed!







Quite an sight to a tank set up! obviously a pro.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Good advice. I wouldnt pin a day limit on cycling....mainly becuase you dont want people to take it literally. Cycling is finished when ammonia and nitrite are 0...could take 2 weeks, could take 2 months....


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## rbP NUT (Dec 2, 2003)

it could take 2 months if your tank is not set up right, what i wrote is a kind of guide line, "key points" i didn't want to give a detailed break down.

cheers guys.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

EMJAY said:


> and i thouhght it took more than 21 days. you shuold re-word it to, a minimum if you dont add chemicals of 21 days













> Good advice. I wouldnt pin a day limit on cycling....mainly becuase you dont want people to take it literally. Cycling is finished when ammonia and nitrite are 0...could take 2 weeks, could take 2 months....


yes Xenon is correct...


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

A good post but I would like to comment on a few points...

First of all, I agree with the others about the time it takes to cycle a tank. There are too many factors involved to pinpoint a specific time (pH, dissolved oxygen, temperature, food source, virgin/seeded tank, etc.) There is no such thing as "perfect and natural conditions" because water parameters are different everywhere you go. The only way you will know if it's cycled is by testing your water. IMO, in an established tank, if your nitrites read anything other than zero, I recommend you find the cause and correct it.

Secondly, unless an aquarium is the same as a wastewater treatment plant, than the two main nitrifiers are NOT Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter. Recent DNA research by Dr. Hovanec (of Bio-Spira fame) has shown that Nitrosococcus is the main species involved in the oxidation of ammonia and Nitrospira is involved in oxidizing nitrites. That's why almost all of the "bacteria in a bottle" products do not work... because 1) they can't keep it alive and 2) even if they did, it's the WRONG species of nitrifiers. Also, adding dirt to cycle your tank is not a good idea. It might not contain the right species of nitrifiers (not sure), but will dirty your tank and risk contamination with fertilizers and pesticides.

Finally, I agree with you that potassium permanganate is a great chemical to disinfect rocks, and even new plants to get rid of snails. But it is very hard to find for the average hobbiest (unless you know a chemist that can get it for you or buy it online). The safest and easiest way to disinfect rocks or decor is to boil it. You can also soak them in a diluted bleach solution and then soak it in a bucket of water with a LOT of dechlor for a couple of days.


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## rbP NUT (Dec 2, 2003)

lol


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## X-D-X (Jul 3, 2003)

Rbp Nut knows what he is talking bout!!


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## nl7wq (Nov 21, 2003)

it is a pain to find potassium permanganate ...i use it as a general cleaner for everything i add to tanks and even as a med for really bad cases of ulcers and paracites on bettas and other fish too.
i looked all over the city to find it tho and most places looked at me like i was asking for some kind of rare cannibis plant or something ...i finally found it at a culligan water store ....it was like $17.95 for a quart sized bottle of little purple granules... of course there wasnt any instructions on its use for fish (culligan sales it to clean water filtering tanks i think .) i do know the stuff reallllly works tho ...i was haveing a problem in a female betta tank and was looseing girls like 3-4 a day then treated with the PP and all losses stopped right then .... they had a really bad case os culmanarous(spelled wrong ) i treated for 4 days as i found on the link below (yea i know its a goldfish shight and really dont give very good instructions) basicly added the PP till the water truned purple then waited till it turned to a champane color then turned on the filter with only charcoal in it (magnum 220) and then treated the next day same way for 5 days ...it dont hurt plants tho can stress fish , it didnt kill grass shrimp nor did i loose any more bettas ...oh and the bumblebee pleco in that tank didnt seem to mind either ...

anyway if you are looking for a great tank sterilizer i think the PP kicks butt ...also if you do get it to strong in an occupied tank then it can be instantly deactivated with Hygrogen peroxide then the water cleared with carbon filter...Mickey

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articl...ons%20&%20Doses

lot of other meds talked about there too


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## BanditBrother (Nov 8, 2003)

Hi guys!! When i changed my set up from my 29G to my 90G i moved half the water when i was doing a water change from the 29 and placed it in my 90!! Topped up with tap water and added my Ps str8 away!!! So if u kno any1 with a tank already and dnt wna w8 wiv an empty tank get some water from them!!

ope u all get the advice u need!!!


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

nl7wq said:


> basicly added the PP till the water truned purple then waited till it turned to a champane color then turned on the filter with only charcoal in it (magnum 220) and then treated the next day same way for 5 days ...it dont hurt plants tho can stress fish , it didnt kill grass shrimp nor did i loose any more bettas ...oh and the bumblebee pleco in that tank didnt seem to mind either ...
> 
> anyway if you are looking for a great tank sterilizer i think the PP kicks butt ...also if you do get it to strong in an occupied tank then it can be instantly deactivated with Hygrogen peroxide then the water cleared with carbon filter...Mickey


 Never add potassium permanganate crystals directly to the tank. It is a VERY powerful oxidizer and if the fish so happens to be in that area, it will suffer severe burns if not death. You need to prepare a stock solution with a measured amount of PP and distilled water. Then add the stock solution according to the volume of your tank. If you decide to use PP, do research on dosage and how to use it. You can very easily overdose on it and wipe out your whole collection.

BTW, regular dechlor that uses sodium thiosuplhate can also be used to deactivated potassium permanganate.

Basic rules for using potassium permanganate:

1) Know the volume of your tank... Do not guess!
2) Turn off your filter while the PP is active. It will kill your nitrifiers.
3) Increase aeration in your tank. The oxidation process will deplete the water of dissolved oxygen.
4) Monitor your fish at all times during the process. If the fish seems to be stressed due to the treatment, use hydrogen peroxide or dechlor to deactivate.
5) If you are treating for parasites, you will need to follow a schedule of treatment to kill of the life cycle of the parasite. 
6) Realize that using PP will discolor your tank (dark purple when it's active and muddy brown when deactivated). It will clear up in a couple of days with good filtration, but the water will be crystal clear because it also oxidizes algae and any other living organism (including fish). 
7) Research on dosage and how to prepare a stock solution before even thinking about using this stuff. It's a very powerful tool in treating bacteria/fungus/parasites but treat it with respect or else you will kill EVERYTHING.


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## nl7wq (Nov 21, 2003)

i agree with everything on the PP post jsut now ...i didnt have any other info but that link that i posted from Koivets and they didnt say anything ....i agree totally that i was extreamly lucky in the treatments that i didnt lose anyone ....i have since used it only for tank sterilization (empty tanks)... im hopeing that i never have to use it again on a tank but it have a lifetime supply (a almost full quart dry chems) 
at the time i was desperate as i was looseing girls at a very fast rate and couldnt find anyplace else that mentioned it as a med but tried it anyway an dadded like 1-3 grains at a time away from anything liveing fish wise till it got the tank a really light purple then stopped .... waited till the water turned a champange color then ran the magnum 220 (charcoal only ) till the water was clear 
yes the dechlor will deactivate the PP but i chose the Hydrogen Peroxide instead for the O2 helpjsut in case .... never had any signs of stress (other than the prissy female bettas really dislikeing the turbalance from the magnum ...lol ) so i never used the HP 
i guess i should have been more carefull when i was useing the PP but like i said i was really getting desperate i was looseing atleast 3-4 a day one day i lost 6 (day i went and got the PP and started treating with it(i had taken 4 dead girls out of the tank before i left to get the PP then another 2 girls 2 hours later when i got home) ... so i just went by hopes and i was really lucky ...i do thank you for the info tho i had never thought about makeing a concentrated solution to a certian % before adding as i never had anything to work with but the 8 level teaspoons to 4800 gallons .... thats hard to break down to a 30 gallon tank .... it meant to me like 12-15 grains on the PP at most and like i siad i wsa lucky and it works ... thanks again .... Mickey 
oh and sorry about the posting in this thread not trying to derail it jsut very happy to find more info ... thanks again


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