# Heavily planted tank questions



## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

Information
So I will be setting up a heavily planted 75 gallon tank in a month or so. I will be getting a co2 system with a ph monitor, I will be using my current filters: A Fluval 404 and a magnum. I have an Emp4 but those agitate the surface so I don't plan to use that. I have right now one 7-8 inch rbp and I plan on getting two more pygos, probably a tern and a piraya a little smaller than the current rbp. I plan to go with an idea Dippy gave me and carpet the tank with dwarf hairgrass and have a small piece of driftwood with plants growing off of it and maybe a few small rocks and other tall plants in the back.
Questions
I have read about people just running the co2 tube into their canisters somehow but have never seen or heard how this is done(maybe drilling into the top of the canister, the tubes, ...?) I would like to keep the tube out of the tank so the ps can't bite it plus it takes away from the natural look. Any suggestions?

I have heard you do not need to gravel vac heavily planted tanks because they use the fecal matter and such as food and it's called mulm(?) and if this stuff becomes disturbed an algae breakout can occur, right? If I should vac the tank, how often? Also with a common pleco and a raphael catfish wont they disturb the mulm or stuff that has built up in the gravel causing algae outbreaks so should I get rid of my pleco and raph?

Thank you!


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## spree_rider (Mar 20, 2004)

i vac out the mulm and other junk whenever i do a water change and have never had a problem with algea blooms from doing it, i have never heard of there being a problem with disturbing the mulm as long as you dont disturb the plants roots and inhibit their growth you shouldent have algea problems.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Don't vacuum. If you disturb the substrate you release alot of ammonia from the decaying matter in the gravel and free floating green algae which feeds primarily on ammonia will explode in your tank.

For a cannister, just drill a hole in the intake portion inside your tank and feed the tube in there. If you drill the top the cannister is likely to break siphon and suck air.

Ditch the pleco, they suck anyway. A raph won't disturb the substrate too much, you just want something that isn't going to dig up significant chunks of substrate on you.


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Don't vacuum. If you disturb the substrate you release alot of ammonia from the decaying matter in the gravel and free floating green algae which feeds primarily on ammonia will explode in your tank.
> 
> [snapback]1143088[/snapback]​


So I should never, ever vacuum? Not even once a year or something?
Thanks for the help.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

BigChuckP said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Don't vacuum. If you disturb the substrate you release alot of ammonia from the decaying matter in the gravel and free floating green algae which feeds primarily on ammonia will explode in your tank.
> ...


If you're planting heavily, I wouldn't because you'll disturb the roots and mess up the mix of bacteria growing among the mulm anyway, not to even mention the negative effects of messing with the plants roots as well. Planted tanks go through a cycle of their own with plants and bacteria stabilizing to produce a healthy balance. That's why younger tanks get brown algae and older tanks rarely have brown algae come up at all. Sucking up all the mulm will basically just "reset" the balance and cause the tank to have to re-establish that balance. I saw this first hand when I had to tear down my tank and suck up all the crud from the gravel and I had to go through 6 weeks of brown algae all over again when I hadn't had any for quite some time prior to that.


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> BigChuckP said:
> 
> 
> > elTwitcho said:
> ...










Thanks for the information, I cant wait to get into this project! When I do I will certainly be posting pics and info about my success and failures.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Hi BigChuck

I bought my Rema cannister filter simply because of the ease in which I could pump the CO2 into the tank via the cap of the intake (see picture) -What I did was drill a hole in the cap of the intake tube, and siliconed a piece of rigid airtube to the cap, attached the CO2 hose to that, and put one of those skinny airstones on the end of the rigid tube that is in the intake hose. 
BTW, I think your tank will look awesome! Just don't get plants that need low nitrates to look good. (SOME of the red varieties) Also, with big pygo's in there, I-(remember this is what I would do) I would get fertilizer that you can taylor to your needs since P's produce alot of nitrates. I would order off www.gregwatson.com and get: PlantexCSM+B, mono potassium phosphate, chelated iron, and the potassium nitrate, and add the nitrate only after weekly 50-70% water changes. (macros every other day, micros on off days of macros, if you have 3wpg PC)
Also, I would look into getting a piece of plexi-glass or something, or a divider maybe, that you can cut to fit into your tank to keep your P's away from your hand while you are doing maintenance on your tank. Trust me, you will need to, especially in the beginning.
About vac'n gravel.. listen to Twitch, don't do it. I vac over the plants to get little stuff on the surface, but never anything else. 
Any more questions, feel free to ask! (don't know how much i do help, but i try







)


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Hi BigChuck
> 
> I bought my Rema cannister filter simply because of the ease in which I could pump the CO2 into the tank via the cap of the intake (see picture) -What I did was drill a hole in the cap of the intake tube, and siliconed a piece of rigid airtube to the cap, attached the CO2 hose to that, and put one of those skinny airstones on the end of the rigid tube that is in the intake hose.
> BTW, I think your tank will look awesome! Just don't get plants that need low nitrates to look good. (SOME of the red varieties) Also, with big pygo's in there, I-(remember this is what I would do) I would get fertilizer that you can taylor to your needs since P's produce alot of nitrates. I would order off www.gregwatson.com and get: PlantexCSM+B, mono potassium phosphate, chelated iron, and the potassium nitrate, and add the nitrate only after weekly 50-70% water changes. (macros every other day, micros on off days of macros, if you have 3wpg PC)
> ...











Thanks DiPpY!
I think that I am going to be spending a lot of money on just the set-up so I won't have enough for more piranhas at first, but eventually I will be getting 2 more. 
So having the co2 line going into the intake of the filter does not cause the co2 to get sucked out? I attatched a diagram to show you how I understand what you said. Did I understand correctly? I hope I can find an airstone small enough to fit in my fluvals or magnum intake tube, are they easy to find? Is any rigid tubing ok to use with co2?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

ya, that is exactly how I have my CO2 going in my tank, and how a bunch of people that I know do it. Some will argue this and that about the idea, but it works for not just me, but others as well. I don't have a problem with low levels of CO2 present in my tank at all, so in my eyes it is fine...

Except I drilled a hole in the cap of my intake.. It looks like on the diagram you posted, that you will be going directly into the hose itself. I bought the Rema filter because of the cap on the intake. it is a flat, and safe place to do it. I don't see a major problem in how you want to do it, but I think in the long run, the heavy plastic, and flat surface of the cap is a bit of a more stable placement of the CO2 line, because I was able to silicone both sides of the cap. with the tube method, it looks like you will only be able to silicone 1 side, and you won't be able to change out the airstone as easy.

I have seen where ppl just ran a bare CO2 hose into the tank, and fed it directly into the intake grill of the cannister filter itself, (yaknow, where the filter draws the water inside the tank) on their personal show tanks, and they have no problems doing it that way either. I suggest this way over drilling out your intake hose.. What do you think? This way you won't have to drill or silicone anything at all..

EDIT on my last post... I have had recent problems with low K (potassium) in my tank, so I will suggest getting some potassium sulfate off greg watson as well.. why not, it is cheap enough, and you won't need to buy it again for like 6 yrs lol


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