# How many Super Reds per 350 Gallon Holding Tank



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Hi,

I´m bringing in a very large shipment of super reds and have a major concern. I´ve brought in Caribe in large numbers (150 + ) before, but not Super Reds. With the Caribe I had to reduce the temperature considerably to stop them cannibalizing each other.

They are all in the 3 inch category, with the number I´ve ordered I´m going to have to put 150 into each 350 Gallon tank--I know that´s a bit too many but what I wanted to know is to what degree can I lower the temperature of the water--to slow them down--but not run the risk of losing them?

Thanks in advance,
Jose


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

150 3" in a 350?????? Thats what your saying I am hearing and you don't want internal aggression??? Uhhhhhh no heater whatsoever hell get a air conditioner and other than that good luck with that as that is going to be one over packed tank from hell. I hope you can move them or sell them quickly to avoid many being K.I.A.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

ohhh man it this guy again

150 reds in a 350 tank and you dont want them to cannablize. nice. good luck with that.
i think you have to resign yourself to the fact that you are gonna loose some.


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Trigger lover said:


> ohhh man it this guy again
> 
> 150 reds in a 350 tank and you dont want them to cannablize. nice. good luck with that.
> i think you have to resign yourself to the fact that you are gonna loose some.


Yeah, I know i´m going to loose some, in fact quite a few. Just wanted to know how much i could actually reduce the temperature and calm them down a bit.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Drop it to 72 I would say and if your going to be a reputable dealer of them I would suggest a hellva lot more tanks cause even if some don't die but get all marked up and lose eyes and such your reputation will go into the toliet and then you will be stuck with them and in turn suffer more losses.


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> ohhh man it this guy again
> 
> 150 reds in a 350 tank and you dont want them to cannablize. nice. good luck with that.
> i think you have to resign yourself to the fact that you are gonna loose some.


Yeah, I know i´m going to loose some, in fact quite a few. Just wanted to know how much i could actually reduce the temperature and calm them down a bit.
[/quote]

Hi,

No I´m getting confused with the measurements. Here in Europe we measure in litres you folks measure in gallons. Here is the holding tank: 2m diameter x 1m deep (holds approximately 620 gallons or 2800 litres): I think the size is right for that number, they are only 3 inch at the most:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2m-Round-1m-Deep-280...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Regards,
Jose


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

That's a little bit better but still If I was in your place I would invest in two more(at least!!) of your kiddy pools. Maybe add a diving board or paint some cool murals on the internal side. Make sure no running and make them wait at least an hour before going in after eating. Will you have a lifeguard on duty??


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

LMFAO 
Is this Guy For real ?

Sounds like he just wants a pool Of P's to Tare his enemies appart lol.


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## Murphy18 (Oct 17, 2008)

I dont get it, are you planning on housing them in here? for how long? What you gonna do for filtration etc..?


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

I am not sure what you are doiing with them, as a matter of fact I am not sure what you are doing with any of your p's. You offer this site nothing, and are sketchy as hell. What are your intentions with all of these piranha.

Anyways, with 150 P's and following the minimun 20 gallons per P, you need a *3,000 gallon* tank.

You are using just over *4* gallons per P. That's awful man. I really want to know your intentions.

Not to mention the massive filtration you will need to maintain that many P's in that small of a tank.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Temp is fine and you should see minimal death IMO-

we have kept pretty much the same number in a 125 gal (have fun with something like that)-I wouldn't even have to ask the ? if they are going into a tank that big and only temp......


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> That's a little bit better but still If I was in your place I would invest in two more(at least!!) of your kiddy pools. Maybe add a diving board or paint some cool murals on the internal side. Make sure no running and make them wait at least an hour before going in after eating. Will you have a lifeguard on duty??


LOL


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

lol @ RnR's comment

well 620g pond is a little better than the 350g pond but still it sucks. you gonna loose alot of the fish.
how long are you going to keep them in there altogether. the longer you have them in there the more will die. as blbig said you way way over stocked. i hope its only a temperory holding area. and my temperory i mean no more than a week


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

I can understand the housing being under 20gln/fish blbig as a seller can not have enough space to give their stock the space we give our pets and to most our family members but I think every one from the begining has wondered intentions. Caribe after you have created some wierd ass threads to some as I could understand the first one but as they go into the Twilight Zone I can't help but wonder as well are you going to be filtering and with what, where are you going to keep your kiddy pool, how you going to heat it, what about disease and parasite control?? I can't see a wet/dry being attached to that very easy and every big tank or many tank store runs one on their tanks. If aggression becomes out of hand what is your plans to rectify?? What if this pool springs a leak and do you know of the dependability of such?? How can you display fish as pictures and/or video must be difficult to obtain in that tank?? Why super reds and not just regular reds as are cheaper and easier to mass distribute and have a better public awareness level??? If you hit a snag or projected sale levels are not to expected level what is your plans to house say 150 4" supers in a couple months time?? Do you have P's as a pet?? If so and given that you would love your pets do you consider them in the pool your pets as well or an investment??? I know they are a investment but will you provide needed attention to wounded or hurt stock or just kill them if not wanted. Water change schedule and water monitor plans. Feeding schedule and intake levels projected per fish as well as nutrient supplements?? Proper market research and networking been done to move these fish to loving homes??? Emergency Plans if a power outage or Act of God put your stock in danger? Marketing and Advertisement been done??? Proper measures taken to ensure people are at least somewhat versed in fish care if allowing private sales because as a community a bunch more shitty owners we don't need??? A general understanding and commitment to helping the P species as a whole to become better understood and cared for as a whole???


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Murphy18 said:


> I am not sure what you are doiing with them, as a matter of fact I am not sure what you are doing with any of your p's. You offer this site nothing, and are sketchy as hell. What are your intentions with all of these piranha.
> 
> Anyways, with 150 P's and following the minimun 20 gallons per P, you need a *3,000 gallon* tank.
> 
> ...


Hi,

You´ll see what I´m offering in a few hours in the classified section.

Regards,
Jose


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Need more info-

I'm talking very Temp setup........Should be loaded with hiding spots and decor-Huge feedings will be required as well....

If going to hold for more than week or so time-I would certainly split them up and atleast have 2 ponds....

I'll respond more when I can-No time right now...


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

As a seller, (you not me) I can understand the over crowding, as long as it is short term. What classified are you talking about, like your local newspaper or what. I know you can't put those in the P-Fury classified as it is against P-Fury rules and regulations, you must be a sponsor, which I am sure they would be willing to work something out.

Good Luck


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

AKSkirmish said:


> Need more info-
> 
> I'm talking very Temp setup........Should be loaded with hiding spots and decor-Huge feedings will be required as well....
> 
> ...


Thanks for that!! appreciate it.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

I am researching simular setups as we speak and tank behavior and will post my findings after around a hour or so. Do you already have a wave maker in place as well?? That can help slow down tank aggression and help to keep healthy and to fight a community illness.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I´m bringing in a very large shipment of super reds and have a major concern. I´ve brought in Caribe in large numbers (150 + ) before, but not Super Reds. With the Caribe I had to reduce the temperature considerably to stop them cannibalizing each other.
> 
> ...











As a dealer, you should already know the answer to this...


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Trigger lover said:


> lol @ RnR's comment
> 
> well 620g pond is a little better than the 350g pond but still it sucks. you gonna loose alot of the fish.
> how long are you going to keep them in there altogether. the longer you have them in there the more will die. as blbig said you way way over stocked. i hope its only a temperory holding area. and my temperory i mean no more than a week


No I don´t think I could shift 150 super reds a week--no way. I´m thinking more in terms of two to three weeks.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

These are 3" fish people.....you are all acting like he is talking about 10"+ fish. I have seen much higher stocking levels without much problem. I would add no decor and lots of current....and I think you will be shocked at how few casualties you will suffer. They are more comfortable with overstocking then understocking....especially when newly imported. If you cant keep them separate....I would suggest overstocking. You want to allow them as little territory to claim as possible. Territorial battles are the major cause of casualties. Thats what I would do anyways....no structures...and lots of current.


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> I can understand the housing being under 20gln/fish blbig as a seller can not have enough space to give their stock the space we give our pets and to most our family members but I think every one from the begining has wondered intentions. Caribe after you have created some wierd ass threads to some as I could understand the first one but as they go into the Twilight Zone I can't help but wonder as well are you going to be filtering and with what, where are you going to keep your kiddy pool, how you going to heat it, what about disease and parasite control?? I can't see a wet/dry being attached to that very easy and every big tank or many tank store runs one on their tanks. If aggression becomes out of hand what is your plans to rectify?? What if this pool springs a leak and do you know of the dependability of such?? How can you display fish as pictures and/or video must be difficult to obtain in that tank?? Why super reds and not just regular reds as are cheaper and easier to mass distribute and have a better public awareness level??? If you hit a snag or projected sale levels are not to expected level what is your plans to house say 150 4" supers in a couple months time?? Do you have P's as a pet?? If so and given that you would love your pets do you consider them in the pool your pets as well or an investment??? I know they are a investment but will you provide needed attention to wounded or hurt stock or just kill them if not wanted. Water change schedule and water monitor plans. Feeding schedule and intake levels projected per fish as well as nutrient supplements?? Proper market research and networking been done to move these fish to loving homes??? Emergency Plans if a power outage or Act of God put your stock in danger? Marketing and Advertisement been done??? Proper measures taken to ensure people are at least somewhat versed in fish care if allowing private sales because as a community a bunch more shitty owners we don't need??? A general understanding and commitment to helping the P species as a whole to become better understood and cared for as a whole???


Hi,

Those are a lot of valid questions, which I can´t answer right now. What I can tell you is that my list will be on classified within the next day or two. I don´t want to advertise until Jeff allows me to do so--therefore I can´t answer the majority of your questions right now. As soon as Jeff puts up my stock list I´ll go into more detail.

For your information my name is Jose Tuset and I used to run Piranha Boutique Europe, which was the first online piranha store (that stocked the main serras and pygos in Europe). I established that company in 1997 and closed it in 2004. I was Nick Gardner´s supplier in the UK through to 2002. I started shipping serras and pygos succesfully throughout Europe in 1999 and based in Spain I have wholesaled to the U.K. market (Nick for 3 years), until he went off with Ron Neilsen. I am currently supplying the main provider in the U.K., Spain and Holland. I have exported to Greece, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden and was the first person to send a live Manuelli to Reikjavik (Iceland). As soon as Jeff gives me the green flag--I will validate this statement I have made and who I am.

So what I´m really trying to say is; thanks, all the points you mention are very valid but at the moment the only thing I actually need is advice on is stocking large numbers of Pygos in tanks, which based on the comments I´m getting seem to be too small or the space is incorrectly allocated, which I am going to rectify.

Thanks,
Jose


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> These are 3" fish people.....you are all acting like he is talking about 10"+ fish. I have seen much higher stocking levels without much problem. I would add no decor and lots of current....and I think you will be shocked at how few casualties you will suffer. They are more comfortable with overstocking then understocking....especially when newly imported. If you cant keep them separate....I would suggest overstocking. You want to allow them as little territory to claim as possible. Territorial battles are the major cause of casualties. Thats what I would do anyways....no structures...and lots of current.


Thanks for your comment Jeff, I was beginning to get very worried. I´ve never held large quantities of Pygos.

Could you explain when you say that over stocking is preferential to understocking when newly imported? Do you suggest i separate them? also, are you talking about a 350 gallon tank or 700 gallon?

Thankssssssssssss


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

This is only my opinion....however I have seen and read more horror stories about these fish killing each other in understocked tanks then overstocked tanks. These fish live in large groups for a reason....because they are prey as well as predator. They group for protection...so it would make sense that they would feel less stress in a large group then when they are just a few in a tank. This would be more important for newly imported fish because they are not conditioned to life in a box&#8230;.so they would be even more stressed with the move. Also....when these fish are kept in large numbers they dont claim territories like they do when they are kept with only a few in a good sized tank. My opinion is that 99% of casualties come from territorial disputes then for any other reason.....so you take away the territories....you take away most of the aggression. The reason overstocked tanks work is it removes the ability for these fish to claim territories. In overstocked tanks...the fish swim together...in understocked tanks....they battle for territories. Once they establish the tanks hierarchy and preferred spots.......they sit in their territories and only get active during feeding...or to chase a fish out of their territory. You loose a fish when a territorial dispute gets a little out of hand, one fish gets injured and then the rest see him as weak and they take him out.

Obviously there are concerns with filtration....but if you have that covered....it is my opinion that an overstocked tank not only looks better...but you have less issues with aggression.


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Well with that information GG, I guess my question would be, how does that play out long term in the home aquarium?


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> I can understand the housing being under 20gln/fish blbig as a seller can not have enough space to give their stock the space we give our pets and to most our family members but I think every one from the begining has wondered intentions. Caribe after you have created some wierd ass threads to some as I could understand the first one but as they go into the Twilight Zone I can't help but wonder as well are you going to be filtering and with what, where are you going to keep your kiddy pool, how you going to heat it, what about disease and parasite control?? I can't see a wet/dry being attached to that very easy and every big tank or many tank store runs one on their tanks. If aggression becomes out of hand what is your plans to rectify?? What if this pool springs a leak and do you know of the dependability of such?? How can you display fish as pictures and/or video must be difficult to obtain in that tank?? Why super reds and not just regular reds as are cheaper and easier to mass distribute and have a better public awareness level??? If you hit a snag or projected sale levels are not to expected level what is your plans to house say 150 4" supers in a couple months time?? Do you have P's as a pet?? If so and given that you would love your pets do you consider them in the pool your pets as well or an investment??? I know they are a investment but will you provide needed attention to wounded or hurt stock or just kill them if not wanted. Water change schedule and water monitor plans. Feeding schedule and intake levels projected per fish as well as nutrient supplements?? Proper market research and networking been done to move these fish to loving homes??? Emergency Plans if a power outage or Act of God put your stock in danger? Marketing and Advertisement been done??? Proper measures taken to ensure people are at least somewhat versed in fish care if allowing private sales because as a community a bunch more shitty owners we don't need??? A general understanding and commitment to helping the P species as a whole to become better understood and cared for as a whole???


Hi,

Those are a lot of valid questions, which I can´t answer right now. What I can tell you is that my list will be on classified within the next day or two. I don´t want to advertise until Jeff allows me to do so--therefore I can´t answer the majority of your questions right now. As soon as Jeff puts up my stock list I´ll go into more detail.

*For your information my name is Jose Tuset and I used to run Piranha Boutique Europe, which was the first online piranha store (that stocked the main serras and pygos in Europe). I established that company in 1997 and closed it in 2004. I was Nick Gardner´s supplier in the UK through to 2002. I started shipping serras and pygos succesfully throughout Europe in 1999 and based in Spain I have wholesaled to the U.K. market (Nick for 3 years), until he went off with Ron Neilsen. I am currently supplying the main provider in the U.K., Spain and Holland. I have exported to Greece, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden and was the first person to send a live Manuelli to Reikjavik (Iceland). As soon as Jeff gives me the green flag--I will validate this statement I have made and who I am.*
So what I´m really trying to say is; thanks, all the points you mention are very valid but at the moment the only thing I actually need is advice on is stocking large numbers of Pygos in tanks, which based on the comments I´m getting seem to be too small or the space is incorrectly allocated, which I am going to rectify.

Thanks,
Jose

[/quote]

Pleasure to finally get a introduction and please don't view the above as me being an asshole or trying to decredit you in anyway. I feel the temp I gave you as well as asking if you stocked a wavemaker preferably a larger one was the best advice I can give and still researching on your behalf. I just was hoping you would state what you just did or at least tell me that a mission statement was on the way as I know it's a touchy subject when you are not a advertiser as of yet. The only thing that is even close to what you are mentioning is a 1000gallon opond I found and the owner uses 2 hydor 6 controlable in conjunction with hydor 2way basic wavemaker and night/day sensor as the owner stated "keeps a naturalistic flow continous and varied due to day and night hours as there are no rest spots in the cylinder shape of my pool. With the ability to curb aggression from minor exhaustion being able to be directly applied during active hours and takes the guess work and applied effort and time out of the picture and allows me to sell fish" Took me an hour to find this but seems to be the best found so far. As for the questions whenever you have time man would still like to know and good luck in the future. My name is Jesse by the way!!

As for the statements in bold I highlighted so people can see you are for real.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

blbig50 said:


> Well with that information GG, I guess my question would be, how does that play out long term in the home aquarium?


The same. Obviously there are exceptions to everything....like some individual fish that wont work in any tank with other fish....but as a general rule....overstocked tanks have less aggression then understocked tanks. Again...just my opinion....and what I think is pretty basic when you observe fish behavior. Im not suggesting people run out and stuff their tanks with fish....there is a certain level of dedication that comes along with overstocking a tank that is lacking in some people. I am also only suggesting this when you are discussing Pygocentrus and other shoaling fish....people that overstock tanks with non-shoaling fish are just irresponsible IMO.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

well i have definetly learnt something here :nod:

thanks for the info GG

and good luck with the selling of your piranha's Caribe Manufacturer.

you say you sell in the UK. do you sell to individual private customers too or just to the lfs?


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Well with that information GG, I guess my question would be, how does that play out long term in the home aquarium?


The same. Obviously there are exceptions to everything....like some individual fish that wont work in any tank with other fish....but as a general rule....overstocked tanks have less aggression then understocked tanks. Again...just my opinion....and what I think is pretty basic when you observe fish behavior. Im not suggesting people run out and stuff their tanks with fish....there is a certain level of dedication that comes along with overstocking a tank that is lacking in some people. I am also only suggesting this when you are discussing Pygocentrus and other shoaling fish....people that overstock tanks with non-shoaling fish are just irresponsible IMO.
[/quote]

You know what Jeff, I´ve read all the advice, jokes, insults to this post, but I´m going to go with your formula. As I say Í have a great deal of experience holding and shipping serras, but not holding large number of pygos.

I´ve just read your explanation and you know what, I might be wrong going for this option, you might be wrong, but it is by a clear mile the best response I´ve had to this question, regardless of the outcome. It seems that everything you mention in your statement can be validated and normally I would take the advice from the many and not the few. Not on this occasion, I am going to go with what you´re saying because it makes sense a lot of sense and you know what; I was actually quite worried a couple of hours ago but now I´m totally tranquile.

Thanks a lot Jeff!!!!!!!!!
Jose


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Thanks for the info GG, learned something new today, as I am learning new things in this hobby everyday.


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

blbig50 said:


> Thanks for the info GG, learned something new today, as I am learning new things in this hobby everyday.


You know what, no matter what you think you know--and I genuinely thought I knew everything-- you don´t, I don´t and we just need to learn from everyone---that I have learnt. I don´t know Jeff´s background but what he talks is always validated so I would not want to argue, just take advice and learn.

So you folks that have just decided to have a laugh and take a joke at my expense, do so.....

Regards.
Jose


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Thanks for the info GG, learned something new today, as I am learning new things in this hobby everyday.


You know what, no matter what you think you know--and I genuinely thought I knew everything-- you don´t, I don´t and we just need to learn from everyone---that I have learnt. I don´t know Jeff´s background but what he talks is always validated so I would not want to argue, just take advice and learn.

*So you folks that have just decided to have a laugh and take a joke at my expense, do so.....

*Regards.
Jose

[/quote]

Will do!!!!
So are you going to have a pool party with your kids before you load that bad boy up with fish??? I was thinking if you added a 2x6 to the side we could have a diving competition for midgets!!! I figure out where you got it now WALL MART!!! but how did you scape off the cartoon turtles off the sides???? Just think if you had a couple of those hand warming packs and a box of alka-seltzer we could have a hot tub party!!! Have you figured out what side is the "deep end" yet?????







Ok Ok I'm done


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

gamgenius said:


> Hi,
> 
> I´m bringing in a very large shipment of super reds and have a major concern. I´ve brought in Caribe in large numbers (150 + ) before, but not Super Reds. With the Caribe I had to reduce the temperature considerably to stop them cannibalizing each other.
> 
> ...











As a dealer, you should already know the answer to this...
[/quote]

Do you know how to wash your clothes? do you know which colours go with which? you know it´s really great when someone can say "I don´t know"....


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Well Caribe I believe thats your first







on this forum


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

I didnt read the whole post, So i might be off

150Ps in that tank. Is way to many.

If you want to be a dealer, why didnt you invest in a bunch of 10g tanks all plumbed 2gether.

For dealing you really dont want a shoal of P's.

That alot of $$ to put upfront, If you want to make it back, Invest more and get a crap load of 10g-20gs plumb it all 2gether with 1 GIANT pump,
Considering smaller tanks a cheap 1$/G

thats what id do


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Trigger lover said:


> Thanks for the info GG, learned something new today, as I am learning new things in this hobby everyday.


You know what, no matter what you think you know--and I genuinely thought I knew everything-- you don´t, I don´t and we just need to learn from everyone---that I have learnt. I don´t know Jeff´s background but what he talks is always validated so I would not want to argue, just take advice and learn.

*So you folks that have just decided to have a laugh and take a joke at my expense, do so.....

*Regards.
Jose

[/quote]

Will do!!!!
So are you going to have a pool party with your kids before you load that bad boy up with fish??? I was thinking if you added a 2x6 to the side we could have a diving competition for midgets!!! I figure out where you got it now WALL MART!!! but how did you scape off the cartoon turtles off the sides???? Just think if you had a couple of those hand warming packs and a box of alka-seltzer we could have a hot tub party!!! Have you figured out what side is the "deep end" yet?????







Ok Ok I'm done








[/quote]

Actually yes I have, the deep end is the end your mum gets into LOL.......


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Thanks for the info GG, learned something new today, as I am learning new things in this hobby everyday.


You know what, no matter what you think you know--and I genuinely thought I knew everything-- you don´t, I don´t and we just need to learn from everyone---that I have learnt. I don´t know Jeff´s background but what he talks is always validated so I would not want to argue, just take advice and learn.

*So you folks that have just decided to have a laugh and take a joke at my expense, do so.....

*Regards.
Jose

[/quote]

Will do!!!!
So are you going to have a pool party with your kids before you load that bad boy up with fish??? I was thinking if you added a 2x6 to the side we could have a diving competition for midgets!!! I figure out where you got it now WALL MART!!! but how did you scape off the cartoon turtles off the sides???? Just think if you had a couple of those hand warming packs and a box of alka-seltzer we could have a hot tub party!!! Have you figured out what side is the "deep end" yet?????







Ok Ok I'm done








[/quote]

Actually yes I have, the deep end is the end your mum gets into LOL.......

[/quote]

I believe the deep end is on my mum that you get into Caribe and you still owe me money cause of that fact from last weekend.


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

shiver905 said:


> I didnt read the whole post, So i might be off
> 
> 150Ps in that tank. Is way to many.
> 
> ...


 cheers mate!! don´t know what I´d have done without you..

Regards,
Jose


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

Also, to be honest with ya,
Dont follow the 20 gallon per fish rule.

Your not here to stare at your beautiful tank on your spare time.
Your here to make money.

personally id do 10gal each P. NO AGRESSION

If you live where i live and order 150 10gal tanks. im shure you can get them for like 8$ each just go talk to the aquarium company thats located in your city.
To be honest they might even drill them all for you FOR VERY CHEAP.

If you know how to bargan you can get a drilled 10g tank for 8.50-10$ each.

tanks 1500$
BulkHeads- 200$
Pump- 500$
sump as a filter 300$ - I would personally use a Container/pond/HUGE rubbermaid/ Of some sort
heaters 200
plumbing 250

Make shure you make a deal with your local fish store or Feed store to buy in bulk, Once every month go pick up a boat load of food.

Your goal is TRY TO GET BULK DEALS from SUPPLIERS NOT RETAILERS!

How about if u make it big You get me a 650 gal tank and 30 Carib


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

^^ Shiver gave you wicked advice IMO


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> ohhh man it this guy again
> 
> 150 reds in a 350 tank and you dont want them to cannablize. nice. good luck with that.
> i think you have to resign yourself to the fact that you are gonna loose some.


Yeah, I know i´m going to loose some, in fact quite a few. Just wanted to know how much i could actually reduce the temperature and calm them down a bit.
[/quote]

Why do you spend extra money on more if your assuming you will lose som just becasue you are overstocked? If you assume over stocking is an issue, just saive money and get less. Ill i can say if if that what your doing it lower the temp and keep good filtration as with that many , ammonia and nitrites could be a problem on top of territorial fights.

The footprint also is a factor as a 350 gallon can hold alot more with less hight and more floor space (well keeping a height of like 16inch)


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Well Caribe I believe thats your first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RNR- how do his nuts taste?









lol j/k


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

sean-820 said:


> The footprint also is a factor as a 350 gallon can hold alot more with less hight and more floor space (well keeping a height of like 16inch)


The footprint is overrated with these fish IMO....look at huge tanks....these fish are never sitting on the bottom. They only do this in tanks with less depth.


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

To be honest GG, I don't think a lot of people, admittedly including myself, have seen huge tanks of pygos. Got any pics to share?


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## louisvillain2.0 (May 16, 2007)

blbig50 said:


> To be honest GG, I don't think a lot of people, admittedly including myself, have seen huge tanks of pygos. Got any pics to share?


1500gal considered huge?
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/piranha


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## massabsamurai (Mar 12, 2009)

holy sh*t. thats gotta be one of the coolest setup ever. wow


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Just look at any aquarium setup...these fish dont sit at the bottom. They only do that to get away from the surface of the water. Put them in a shallow tank and the only threat is from the surface of the water...put them in a deep tank...they dont sit at the bottom.


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Nice, by any chance is this yours?

Still though, they seem to be at the bottom, what about an overstocked tall tank?

Are we talking specifically to Super Reds?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sorry...by aquarium I meant a large zoo tank...with a 1000 gallons...they dont sit on the bottom.


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## michaelj (Nov 18, 2007)

If I can add but one reply. there are 2 types of people in this world, those that buy and those that sell. while many times we seem like the same time of people, there is a big divide when we start to think of possibilities...entrepreneurs may seem weird to *most people* but theyre the ones that *sell*, not MANY people do that. If this person wants to sell piranhas in europe he has many many things going for him. european piranha stock is very limited (as he already mentioned) theyres a very high price for them in europe, not much competition for sales at all, if he has a great distributor his biggest challenges is housing until sale is complete and advertising. everyone wants to add theyre 2 cents on why he cant do it but they havent even yet tried what he's doing. theyre just blowing air bubbles. seeing as no one on here knows who he is (A) and no one is competing with him for his territory and thus price (B) and no one can offer a better cheaper alternative price to what he is doing © why do you think he is dumb, doomed, or extremely confused? people seem to fight him on all fronts at every chance??? I hope its not because you think he overstocks in some of your's opinions. If thats the case you better stop supporting ALL LFS, thats how they all turn a profit. or is it because he is trying somthing you've always thought was near impossible for most people like you?? let me tell you somthing caribemanufacturer. I work as a mechanic, 10 years now. I am also an *entrepreneur, (someone who sells)* I have built 6 business's now in the last 6 years, I make very good income off all of them, thats why I dont quit any of them. a few of them tie into my very own job. watching the need and wants of the industry around me comes natural to me. when my co workers found out I was getting into the scrap metal business and rubber recycling they scorned me!! they stewed togethor and hated me for what I was doing trying to improve my own life. They swore they knew more then me, and were more qualified though they never tried. when I opened up a restaurant on the corner by my work they laughed and said it would fail because what did I know about the restaurant business??, a dumb average mechanic! they swore who was no better then them. when you want to create a business you ask as many questions as possible!! even dumb questions. maybe 180 out of 200 people scorn you for attempting somthing they havent or asking even simple questions. but with persistence you get answers, real answers. my mutual fund broker told me one time. he gets turned down 120 times for every 10 successfull calls he makes. I told him I couldnt do that, I would get discouraged. He told me "mike I add that into my costs, I average my pay cheque by every call I make so the way I look at it is, every call I make is 10 bucks, every 25 calls I make a sale no matter what they all think. thats the way you need to look at it if you want to start a business. people are always gonna hate especially the dumb questions you ask. people hate you if they know your doing big things theyre not, people will ask questions when you ask a question ALL THE TIME, people will tell you the hard parts in your struggle but no one ever mentions the reward. work for your DREAMS not a CHEQUE, ask your own questions take the risk and the reward togethor and be thankfull you dont have just one person telling you what to do everyday. theres those that pay and those that get paid. I have thought about the piranha industry in europe for at least 2 years now. its a great business if you have a excellent distributor and a solid base of operations.

by the way, soon as I seen you has gross backing you I knew you were on the right track


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Congrats on all of your success^^


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

michaelj said:


> If I can add but one reply. there are 2 types of people in this world, those that buy and those that sell. while many times we seem like the same time of people, there is a big divide when we start to think of possibilities...entrepreneurs may seem weird to *most people* but theyre the ones that *sell*, not MANY people do that. If this person wants to sell piranhas in europe he has many many things going for him. european piranha stock is very limited (as he already mentioned) theyres a very high price for them in europe, not much competition for sales at all, if he has a great distributor his biggest challenges is housing until sale is complete and advertising. everyone wants to add theyre 2 cents on why he cant do it but they havent even yet tried what he's doing. theyre just blowing air bubbles. seeing as no one on here knows who he is (A) and no one is competing with him for his territory and thus price (B) and no one can offer a better cheaper alternative price to what he is doing © why do you think he is dumb, doomed, or extremely confused? people seem to fight him on all fronts at every chance??? I hope its not because you think he overstocks in some of your's opinions. If thats the case you better stop supporting ALL LFS, thats how they all turn a profit. or is it because he is trying somthing you've always thought was near impossible for most people like you?? let me tell you somthing caribemanufacturer. I work as a mechanic, 10 years now. I am also an *entrepreneur, (someone who sells)* I have built 6 business's now in the last 6 years, I make very good income off all of them, thats why I dont quit any of them. a few of them tie into my very own job. watching the need and wants of the industry around me comes natural to me. when my co workers found out I was getting into the scrap metal business and rubber recycling they scorned me!! they stewed togethor and hated me for what I was doing trying to improve my own life. They swore they knew more then me, and were more qualified though they never tried. when I opened up a restaurant on the corner by my work they laughed and said it would fail because what did I know about the restaurant business??, a dumb average mechanic! they swore who was no better then them. when you want to create a business you ask as many questions as possible!! even dumb questions. maybe 180 out of 200 people scorn you for attempting somthing they havent or asking even simple questions. but with persistence you get answers, real answers. my mutual fund broker told me one time. he gets turned down 120 times for every 10 successfull calls he makes. I told him I couldnt do that, I would get discouraged. He told me "mike I add that into my costs, I average my pay cheque by every call I make so the way I look at it is, every call I make is 10 bucks, every 25 calls I make a sale no matter what they all think. thats the way you need to look at it if you want to start a business. people are always gonna hate especially the dumb questions you ask. people hate you if they know your doing big things theyre not, people will ask questions when you ask a question ALL THE TIME, people will tell you the hard parts in your struggle but no one ever mentions the reward. work for your DREAMS not a CHEQUE, ask your own questions take the risk and the reward togethor and be thankfull you dont have just one person telling you what to do everyday. theres those that pay and those that get paid. I have thought about the piranha industry in europe for at least 2 years now. its a great business if you have a excellent distributor and a solid base of operations.
> 
> by the way, soon as I seen you has gross backing you I knew you were on the right track


Get me a job, that pays more the 15$/H 
plz.

Im good at everything besides driving.


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

blbig50 said:


> Well Caribe I believe thats your first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RNR- how do his nuts taste?









lol j/k
[/quote]

Thanks a lot!!


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Trigger lover said:


> Thanks for the info GG, learned something new today, as I am learning new things in this hobby everyday.


You know what, no matter what you think you know--and I genuinely thought I knew everything-- you don´t, I don´t and we just need to learn from everyone---that I have learnt. I don´t know Jeff´s background but what he talks is always validated so I would not want to argue, just take advice and learn.

*So you folks that have just decided to have a laugh and take a joke at my expense, do so.....

*Regards.
Jose

[/quote]

Will do!!!!
So are you going to have a pool party with your kids before you load that bad boy up with fish??? I was thinking if you added a 2x6 to the side we could have a diving competition for midgets!!! I figure out where you got it now WALL MART!!! but how did you scape off the cartoon turtles off the sides???? Just think if you had a couple of those hand warming packs and a box of alka-seltzer we could have a hot tub party!!! Have you figured out what side is the "deep end" yet?????







Ok Ok I'm done








[/quote]

LOL

You know the funniest thing that could go in my tank would be your mum, that would really cause me serious problems in terms of capacity but then she could be the wavemaker... just a thought.

Regards,
Jose


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## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

michaelj said:


> If I can add but one reply. there are 2 types of people in this world, those that buy and those that sell. while many times we seem like the same time of people, there is a big divide when we start to think of possibilities...entrepreneurs may seem weird to *most people* but theyre the ones that *sell*, not MANY people do that. If this person wants to sell piranhas in europe he has many many things going for him. european piranha stock is very limited (as he already mentioned) theyres a very high price for them in europe, not much competition for sales at all, if he has a great distributor his biggest challenges is housing until sale is complete and advertising. everyone wants to add theyre 2 cents on why he cant do it but they havent even yet tried what he's doing. theyre just blowing air bubbles. seeing as no one on here knows who he is (A) and no one is competing with him for his territory and thus price (B) and no one can offer a better cheaper alternative price to what he is doing © why do you think he is dumb, doomed, or extremely confused? people seem to fight him on all fronts at every chance??? I hope its not because you think he overstocks in some of your's opinions. If thats the case you better stop supporting ALL LFS, thats how they all turn a profit. or is it because he is trying somthing you've always thought was near impossible for most people like you?? let me tell you somthing caribemanufacturer. I work as a mechanic, 10 years now. I am also an *entrepreneur, (someone who sells)* I have built 6 business's now in the last 6 years, I make very good income off all of them, thats why I dont quit any of them. a few of them tie into my very own job. watching the need and wants of the industry around me comes natural to me. when my co workers found out I was getting into the scrap metal business and rubber recycling they scorned me!! they stewed togethor and hated me for what I was doing trying to improve my own life. They swore they knew more then me, and were more qualified though they never tried. when I opened up a restaurant on the corner by my work they laughed and said it would fail because what did I know about the restaurant business??, a dumb average mechanic! they swore who was no better then them. when you want to create a business you ask as many questions as possible!! even dumb questions. maybe 180 out of 200 people scorn you for attempting somthing they havent or asking even simple questions. but with persistence you get answers, real answers. my mutual fund broker told me one time. he gets turned down 120 times for every 10 successfull calls he makes. I told him I couldnt do that, I would get discouraged. He told me "mike I add that into my costs, I average my pay cheque by every call I make so the way I look at it is, every call I make is 10 bucks, every 25 calls I make a sale no matter what they all think. thats the way you need to look at it if you want to start a business. people are always gonna hate especially the dumb questions you ask. people hate you if they know your doing big things theyre not, people will ask questions when you ask a question ALL THE TIME, people will tell you the hard parts in your struggle but no one ever mentions the reward. work for your DREAMS not a CHEQUE, ask your own questions take the risk and the reward togethor and be thankfull you dont have just one person telling you what to do everyday. theres those that pay and those that get paid. I have thought about the piranha industry in europe for at least 2 years now. its a great business if you have a excellent distributor and a solid base of operations.
> 
> by the way, soon as I seen you has gross backing you I knew you were on the right track


Thanks a lot for your comments, those are serious words of encouragement. I did the Piranha Boutique Business for around 6 years and exported to Europe--It went really well but my main job (analyst) took me away and I´ve been in Brazil for the last few years.

I only found out a few months ago that Nick Gardner had passed away... so I decided to start up again.

I can´t export to the U.S. due to logistics and other issues. When ever I receive and order for the U.S. I always send them to George. In fact, a couple of weeks ago I received and e-mail from the Grupo Aquario de Argentina--I passed them on to George.

I´m also going to sponsor a couple of other sites in Europe. However, historically all my sales would come from www.predatoryfish.net (Josh), when that site went down I advertised on P. Fury and that is where the majority of my interest comes from.

Kind regards,
Jose


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## peanutpiranha (Dec 7, 2005)

something is weird about mr manufacturer
im not saying you dont know what your doing but if i sit there and read
all of your posts in this thread you contradict what you say etc 
and it is all a bit edgy to be honest 
and how come you said martin sells your fish in the uk but both of you advertise on 
aquarist classified in the uk?

but i bet youll answer with something like he deals with the uk and "i sell to Iceland"

NOT BEING FUNNY BUT WHAT THE f*ck IS GOING ON HERE?


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

If me mum was really going to be housed by you Caribe you would need a hellva lot bigger of a tank than 600 gallon you know try adding at least another couple of zeros to that number. 
My mamas so fat when she goes camping the bears hide their food!!!!
You might know my mama by her pet name.....................................SHAMOO!!!!


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> The footprint also is a factor as a 350 gallon can hold alot more with less hight and more floor space (well keeping a height of like 16inch)


The footprint is overrated with these fish IMO....look at huge tanks....these fish are never sitting on the bottom. They only do this in tanks with less depth.
[/quote]

I dont think i would really concider 350 to be huge. Large, but with a 350, you arnt going to have a tank thats like 3 ft+ high unless its not very long or narrow. I do agree that they will use height in a huge tank like some pics aat zooz, but those are like 2000+ gallon tanks which is a big difference.
Also GG, my button for quoting people is not there>i dont know if its not supposed to be there anymore, but its not. I can quote people by highlighting what they said and replying tho


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

man im starting to loose track of this thread.
not sure what to beleive.

anyway, louisvillain. thanks for posting that link. that 1500g tank is stunning. very nice tank indeed.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

sean-820 said:


> I dont think i would really concider 350 to be huge. Large, but with a 350, you arnt going to have a tank thats like 3 ft+ high unless its not very long or narrow. I do agree that they will use height in a huge tank like some pics aat zooz, but those are like 2000+ gallon tanks which is a big difference.
> Also GG, my button for quoting people is not there>i dont know if its not supposed to be there anymore, but its not. I can quote people by highlighting what they said and replying tho


I didnt say 350 was huge. My point was only that people tend to be fixated on the footprint of a tank when imo it isnt a huge issue when dealing with large tanks or small fish. For some reason these fish are considered as bottom dwellers by many in this hobby....and that simply isnt true.

No idea about the quote thing...this is the only time I have heard that.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Trigger lover said:


> man im starting to loose track of this thread.
> not sure what to beleive.


Thats why I think this hobby is interesting.....very little is black and white....and everyone has varying opinions usually based on their experience. It would pretty boring if there was only one correct answer to every question. What people should do is read all the available information and then make their own decision on how to proceed. These fish are individuals so what may work for one might not for another&#8230;.so the worst thing you can do is just blindly follow any advice.


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## curly (Jun 22, 2006)

Are you leaving these Koi ponds in the garden as holding tanks? What happens in the winter when you have the cold sea air blowing in off the North Sea? 2x300w heaters won't be enough then.
Another question, I was on the understanding that you were selling only to wholesalers. Yet you advertise here, ebay and Aquarist Classifieds?
Many thanks.


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## Paulice (Oct 28, 2004)

Bet the shops are happy your undercutting them to the public







and selling to anyone that wants one.



Caribe Manufacturer said:


> For your information my name is Jose Tuset and I used to run Piranha Boutique Europe, which was the first online piranha store (that stocked the main serras and pygos in Europe). I established that company in 1997 and closed it in 2004. I was Nick Gardner´s supplier in the UK through to 2002. ( we can only take your word for that, as Poor Nick passed away)I started shipping serras and pygos succesfully throughout Europe in 1999 and based in Spain I have wholesaled to the U.K. market (Nick for 3 years), until he went off with Ron Neilsen.( because he needed a reliable importer) I am currently supplying the main provider in the U.K. (would love to know who that is in your mind As i do know who is the largest importer in the UK), Spain and Holland. I have exported to Greece, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden and was the first person to send a live Manuelli to Reikjavik (Iceland). As soon as Jeff gives me the green flag--I will validate this statement I have made and who I am.
> 
> So what I´m really trying to say is; thanks, all the points you mention are very valid but at the moment the only thing I actually need is advice on is stocking large numbers of Pygos in tanks, which based on the comments I´m getting seem to be too small or the space is incorrectly allocated, which I am going to rectify.
> 
> ...


But remember many years ago you were set up in Spain, I contacted you about getting piranha sent over to me, in Switzerland, Months of messing about and loads of phone calls to you and you could not even supply one fish to me!?
Now your talking about taking over the UK market and you don't even have a single tank to house the 100's of fish your "Supposedly" bringing into the UK.

Sorry GG, but it had to be said!


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Paulice said:


> For your information my name is Jose Tuset and I used to run Piranha Boutique Europe, which was the first online piranha store (that stocked the main serras and pygos in Europe). I established that company in 1997 and closed it in 2004. I was Nick Gardner´s supplier in the UK through to 2002. ( we can only take your word for that, as Poor Nick passed away)I started shipping serras and pygos succesfully throughout Europe in 1999 and based in Spain I have wholesaled to the U.K. market (Nick for 3 years), until he went off with Ron Neilsen.( because he needed a reliable importer) I am currently supplying the main provider in the U.K. (would love to know who that is in your mind As i do know who is the largest importer in the UK), Spain and Holland. I have exported to Greece, Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden and was the first person to send a live Manuelli to Reikjavik (Iceland). As soon as Jeff gives me the green flag--I will validate this statement I have made and who I am.
> 
> So what I´m really trying to say is; thanks, all the points you mention are very valid but at the moment the only thing I actually need is advice on is stocking large numbers of Pygos in tanks, which based on the comments I´m getting seem to be too small or the space is incorrectly allocated, which I am going to rectify.
> 
> ...


But remember many years ago you were set up in Spain, I contacted you about getting piranha sent over to me, in Switzerland, Months of messing about and loads of phone calls to you and you could not even supply one fish to me!?
Now your talking about taking over the UK market and you don't even have a single tank to house the 100's of fish your "Supposedly" bringing into the UK.

Sorry GG, but it had to be said!
[/quote]

Cheers Paul........


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Nothing wrong with stating your opinion Paul thats for sure and in a non-vulgar way either. You certainly have the right to do so.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

No worries Paul.

We dont have any UK sponsors on this forum....so what Jose does on this forum shouldnt affect any of our current sponsors. For that reason....I didnt see any downside to giving him a shot. I have told him...as I tell any prospective sponsor....that the members of this forum come first. If he doesnt hold up his end of the deal...he will be out. Members looking to make a purchase need to do their research into the sellers and decide if they want to deal with someone or not. As long as he doesnt screw our members over...or cause issues with our other sponsors...he will be fine. Every new sponsor is in the eye of our staff&#8230;simply because most fail and we need to protect our members.

I was warned about another dealer when we brought him on...and he as been nothing but stellar to our members for years.

This should be interesting


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