# What makes a cannister filter better than a power?



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Hey all, once again I'm bugging you with a question (not bad, I think fully 1/3rd of my posts are questions, I did search first though







) this time regarding filters. Soon enough I'm going to be upgrading from my 25-30 gallon tank to a 65 or 75 gallon depending on what I can find to house my 4 natts. Obviously, my penguin 170 will no longer be adequate so I was looking at moving that filter over to the new tank and getting an additional filter to help keep the tank spotless. Right now I'm looking at either a Penguin 330 (or whatever the hell the biggest one with two bio wheels is called) or getting a cannister filter. My questions are this,

Someone on the site (Rhomzilla) mentioned he didn't like the Penguin brand, yet I see people reccomend the emperor brand all the time. From what I can see, both are made by the same company (Marineland) and the 330 seems to have an identical design as the Emperor 400 (or is it 500?) with the exception that the Penguin has no spray bar going onto the biowheels. A spraybar isn't worth 30 bucks to me, so what else does the emperor have that makes it so much better or is there really no difference?

My other prospective filtration option is a cannister filter from Fluval (or maaaybe an Eiheim) but I'm wondering what it is that makes these filters worth the substantially higher price tag. Is it because you can customize your own media or do they actually do a better job than a powerfilter rated for the same size tank?

Sorry to bug you guys with these questions, I do a ton of searching and reading but I'm still kind of clueless in a few areas.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

well I got to make it short and sweeet , Iam at work right now









Basically , with the emperors or penguins , these are known As hang on filters with bio-wheels, these hang on to the back of your tank ...they are great 
I use both ....emp 400's and penguin 330's 
Buying either or for your new tank , is a good choice .....If you go emp 
just get one , penguin go with 2 330's

as far as cannister filters
these are filters that suck and blow :laugh: water from the bottom of your tankthey do the fitrating from inside the cannister , water gets sucked in , goes through the media then gets blown :laugh: back out (Fresh)

I would reccomend one of these also to go with your other filters , Me personnaly I like to over filtrate 
you can go with 
Fluval 
xp3's
or Ehiemiem? I cant spell :laugh: .

Pm me , if you would like to get more extensive


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## joefromcanada (Apr 16, 2004)

i heard that fluval isnt the best canister cause there is alot of bypass. id go xp3 ifu wanted canister or ehiem if u have the $$$


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

ternitzer said:


> i heard that fluval isnt the best canister cause there is alot of bypass. id go xp3 ifu wanted canister or ehiem if u have the $$$


I got 4 of them , and they work perfect , Dont always believe what you hear until you use them








And Yes I think xp3's are better and Ehiem,s but I get sweet deal on the Fluvals







and they havent done me wrong in the last 2 years Ever







so Why would I change


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah I've looked up the cannister filters and understand pretty well HOW they work, but why are they better than powerfilters? Do they get the water cleaner, more capacity for biological filtration, run quieter or what?

And how does a Penguin 170 with a Rena XP3 on a 65 gallon tank sound? I've also got an AC 802 for current but there's the little quickfilter attachment on there that I may or may not keep (I got it primarily for making current) depending on how my water quality is


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## joefromcanada (Apr 16, 2004)

i am using a fluval also, lol







seems to do the trick, i also have a emp 280 going too on my 30, so my water is clear, i dont know how good the fluval would do on its own.


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## l2ob (May 22, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Do they get the water cleaner, more capacity for biological filtration, run quieter or what?


 ya i was wondering about this also...


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

I use a fluval 404 on my 55 gallon and it works great. I had the older version of it before.

I like canisters because you can put them out of the way if your in a tight place, run the piping as you want, and especially with the fluval, you have a large variety of media you can use because of the basket type containers.

I dont know if they have more biological filtration than a hang on, but my guess is they at least hold as much or more media ---> more room for bacteria.

I guess its partly personal preference on which you should go with.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

l2ob said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Do they get the water cleaner, more capacity for biological filtration, run quieter or what?
> ...


 If you have a big canister, it can contain several gallons of filter media, which provides an immense area to store biomedia (where the beneficial bacterial reside - they keep the biological balance intact). The more room for media, the better, because the more room for bacteria.
Downside of canisters (except the Eheim Wet/Dry range) is that the process involves only small amounts of oxygen, because it's a closed system (no contact with air) - oxygen maximizes filtration efficiency even further. HOB-filters (Emp's ea.) focus mainly on the oxygenation-part, but don't provide nearly as much room for filtermedia (ie. bacteria).
Fluvals have a larger turn-over rate, but do not filter as efficiently as Eheims - a 250 gallon per hour Eheim is suitable for tanks up to 150 gallons, a equally powerful Fluval for a 100 gallon tank max. (all approximately)
So a higher flow rate not necessarily means a better or more efficient filter.

IMO. the best is a combination of multiple filters: canisters for the heavy-duty filtration work (biological and chemical, in case you use peat, zeolite etc.), and smaller filters for additional biofiltration, mechanical filtration (filtering out debris and crap), and surface movement (which enhances gas exchange at the water surface, which in turn oxygenates the water).


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks guys, you've been terribly helpful. I've got it narrowed down to a Eheim 2213 Plus Kit (rated for 65 gallons) or a Fluval 304. I think either of those combined with my Penguin 170 (rated for tanks up to 50 gallons) should provide more than adequate filtration.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Someone on the site (Rhomzilla) mentioned he didn't like the Penguin brand, yet I see people reccomend the emperor brand all the time.


 I dont think I've stated that, but might have said Ive never owned that brand and suggested a more common one.

With your original question


> My other prospective filtration option is a cannister filter from Fluval (or maaaybe an Eiheim) but I'm wondering what it is that makes these filters worth the substantially higher price tag. Is it because you can customize your own media or do they actually do a better job than a powerfilter rated for the same size tank?


 Reason why canisters are better is because they hold a greater bio-load than hangon filters. Same comparing a canister to a wet/dry.


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## fiveo93 (Jan 19, 2004)

go with an xp3, you can get it ab bigalsonline for 100 bucks


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## ment011 (May 8, 2004)

I actually have a question about this concerning my tank. Right now I have a 55g tank with 2 penguin 330's on it. I would wondering if I should add a canister filter. I was looking at the rena xp3, but that seems like my tank would have alot of filtration going on , and I don't want too much current , because my p's are still pretty damn small (1.5"). Do you guys think I should buy the xp3 filter now , or wait til they get bigger , or am I good to go with the set up I currently have? Thanks alot


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## fiveo93 (Jan 19, 2004)

when i first started my 55 gallon, i only had two 330's and they did fine


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## sprinter78 (Nov 24, 2003)

Yeah, currently I have two 330s on my 55 too. You're fine IMO.


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

Difference between Bio-Wheel and Canister:

Bio-Wheel filters have 3-Stages of filtration.
1. Mechanical (Floss)
2. Chemical (Carbon)
3. Biological (Bio-Spira Wheel)

Canister filters only have 2 stages.
1. Mechanical (Floss)
2. Chemical (Some have Carbon - depending on model)

The choise should be obvious. But it isn't that simple. Some tanks (octigon for example) don't leave enough room for a "hang-on" filter, so in this case you have to have a canister.

330 is the largest of the Pengiun class of filters.
400 is the largest of the Emperer class.

I currently have 3 - Penguin 330's on my 125 Gallon tank.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Canisters provide very good bioloical filtration as well: not as effective as bio-wheel filters, but they somewhat make that up with the sheer amount of biomedia you can fill them up with (the Eheim Pro 2228 I have contains 1,5 gallons of Ephisubstrat, sintered glass biomedia).
Why else would you put biomedia in a canister filter?


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Canisters provide very good bioloical filtration as well: not as effective as bio-wheel filters, but they somewhat make that up with the sheer amount of biomedia you can fill them up with (the Eheim Pro 2228 I have contains 1,5 gallons of Ephisubstrat, sintered glass biomedia).
> Why else would you put biomedia in a canister filter?


 Didn't know that. All the reviews I seen said that canisters don't have air thus making bio-filtration near impossible.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

chiefkyle said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Canisters provide very good bioloical filtration as well: not as effective as bio-wheel filters, but they somewhat make that up with the sheer amount of biomedia you can fill them up with (the Eheim Pro 2228 I have contains 1,5 gallons of Ephisubstrat, sintered glass biomedia).
> ...


 Air does maximize biofiltration efficiency, but there's enough air dissolved in the water to keep the bacteria alive and doing their job (I doubt a canister filter full of bacteria consumes more oxygen than a 4-5" fish: fish never have oxygen problems in an properly maintained fish tank


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Air does maximize biofiltration efficiency, but there's enough air dissolved in the water to keep the bacteria alive and doing their job (I doubt a canister filter full of bacteria consumes more oxygen than a 4-5" fish: fish never have oxygen problems in an properly maintained fish tank


I agree.

Have you seen these: http://www.marineland.com/products/consumer/con_magnum.asp










Magnum 350 BIO-PRO System. Very nice.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Doesn't look bad indeed (although I only let Eheims touch my water)

That canister seems to be indeed primarily designed for water polishing and chemical filtration (I see no media chambers for biomedia), so I see where you were coming from....


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

chiefkyle said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Air does maximize biofiltration efficiency, but there's enough air dissolved in the water to keep the bacteria alive and doing their job (I doubt a canister filter full of bacteria consumes more oxygen than a 4-5" fish: fish never have oxygen problems in an properly maintained fish tank
> ...


 I wouldnt recommend the Magnum brand. Usually the only media that helps with bio-load would either be the sponge or the filter. After awhile, the media will get clogged, caught waste would hinder the full power of the canister, the impeller isnt strong enough, changing/removing the media is inevitable, but will also eliminate the "already" established bacteria needed to go back into the tank. Also, to remove or change the inside of the filter, youll have to open the top cover, which spills arent avoidable, the rings sometimes is a bitch to put back, can snap, or if not properly placed, would create a leak. Go with the more sought off brand.. RENA XP3 or Eheim.


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## 0123 (May 18, 2004)

ive heard some canisters leak bad? is that true?


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## Doug (Feb 10, 2004)

what about the filter media how many time







s u change it or clean it???????


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## SMITZ71 (Jun 4, 2004)

I heard from around the way that Rena Filstar's XP3 was the top rated canister filter from 2003 ....I went the economical route and did a Mag 350...Yeah, taking off the top lid to clean it out isn't the greatest , but they make some quick release tabs to help that situation...The polisher filter that is the secondary unit to it does work nicely tho ,and u can further tell the difference when it is used...decisions decisions


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

For mechanical filtration i love the diatom xl. Polishes the water like there is no tomorrow.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

It's funny actually, but while looking at my filtration options and realizing I'd probably need a cannister for around 200 (Canadian) and an Emperor 400 or Penguin 330 for 70-90, it dawned on me that I could build a wet dry for a fraction of the price and have better filtration. You guys are fantastic for all your help nonetheless, but I just can't see a reason not to build my wet dry


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Doug said:


> what about the filter media how many time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I clean the biomedia in my canisters twice per year (or more often if the flow rate is reduced too much for my liking) - all I do is rincing it with some tank water to wash away the crap and other debris (to avoid killing off too many bacteria).
The filter floss and ceramic rings, which hold a much smaller amount of bacteria, are cleaned more thoroughly.


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## Red Eyes (Nov 25, 2003)

0123 said:


> ive heard some canisters leak bad? is that true?


I've had one of my Eheims for over ten years and never had it leak yet, if it does start leaking at the top I would just have to replace the o ring.


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