# Cariba Breeding



## nameless

*Important Note: *
The following article is the translation of the cariba breeding process achieved by *Yener Alkay *(member of http://www.piranhalar.com) with his own words. The original message can be reached from the following link. http://piranhalar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18111 Also, you can write your comments on the following links: http://piranhalar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18232 and http://piranhalar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17651

Cariba Breeding Process

I have done different kinds of fish breeding especially Pygocentrus Nattereri species many times up until now. I have been thinking about using the methods that i used breeding nattereri, and try to breed other piranha species that haven't been bred yet. I bought 6 Caribes that are around one and a half years old from Ömer Faruk Kanbak who is a member of Turkey's Piranha Forum(http://www.piranhalar.com). I started breeding trials at 01/November/2010. At first, I separated 2 of them thinking that the tank is overcrowded for a successful breeding and I did go on with 4 caribes. After a week ( November 8 ) I had two engaged pairs as you can see in the first video, one pair holding place at right and the other at left. They were not allowing each other into their territory. I observed that their colors started to be reformed and they began to get into action.

Videos (October 8,2010)






Mating ritual on November 13,2010 - no eggs at that time






Siphoning the eggs from the tank - January2,2011






Pictures of Baby Caribas on January 7, 2011

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9513/dsc02164s.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/747/dsc02166a.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9927/dsc02167pg.jpg

Information about the breeding tank:
Size: 220*70*70 (cm)
Water temp: 30-31 (degree Celcius)
Ph: 5.5-6.0
Light: Metal Halide
Gravel: Cracked Lava pieces
Decor: Mangrow Wood

Yener's Comments:

This fish (p. cariba) loves the flow. The light from the metal halide lamp used for this tank's lightning is not given to the tank directly. Instead, I have used fabric to cover the top of the steam glass on top of the tank which reduces the light.

Daily water changes are absolutely necessary for caribas. Although I haven't done this on purpose, I observed and figured out the positive effects of daily water changes while I was transferring water from main tank to my p. nattereri fry tank. I was using fresh water to cover the descending water from the main tank.

Ph is very important and it affects the survival of the eggs directly. The eggs are not as strong as nattereri eggs, thus they don't survive if the ph is not right. The fungal disease for some of the fries has been observed. Cariba eggs are not as durable as p. nattereri's, so Ph plays one of the most important roles for a successful hatching. The methods for caribas are similar to that are used in discus breeding; Daily fresh water!

Caribas are fed every day. Maybe it is not rational, since there is a huge protein boost. However, if the fish is well fed, it will pay back with a present.

I mainly use CO2 for stabling the Ph level. Sump and using high quality filter media in the sump is another important necessity. Sump filtration should be biological rather than mechanical. Peat pellets (Torf peat) is a must in the sump. This is very important.

lamp used for this tank's lightning is not given to the tank directly. Instead, I have used fabric to cover the top of the steam glass on top of the tank which reduces the light.

Daily water changes are absolutely necessary for caribas. Although I haven't done this on purpose, I observed and figured out the positive effects of daily water changes while I was transferring water from main tank to my p. nattereri fry tank. I was using fresh water to cover the descending water from the main tank.

Ph is very important and it affects the survival of the eggs directly. The eggs are not as strong as nattereri eggs, thus they don't survive if the ph is not right. The methods for caribas are similar to that are used in discus breeding; Daily fresh water!

Caribas are fed every day. Maybe it is not rational, since there is a huge protein boost. However, if the fish is well fed, it will pay back with a present.

I mainly use CO2 for stabling the Ph level. Sump and using high quality filter media in the sump is another important necessity. Sump filtration should be biological rather than mechanical. Peat pellets (Torf peat) is a must in the sump. This is very important.

Other pictures:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1842/dsc01332ut.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4673/dsc01334yx.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3109/dsc01342q.jpg

This message will be updated with the new baby and juvenile cariba pictures.

Update as of Ferbruary 6, 2011
1 month old baby caribas:


























New babies (1-2 days old):


















www.piranhalar.com
Translation: Barış Uzmay and Dorukan Türkmen
Great Honor by breeding caribas: *Yener Alkay*


----------



## marco

omg man


----------



## Johnny_Zanni

Good stuff. I can't wait to see more pictures.


----------



## Piranha_man

_"Peat pellets is a must in the sump. This is very important."_

Told ya...


----------



## Smoke




----------



## BRUNER247

Awesome job! PROPS to you! Are you going to work on others now? Geryi, margin,brandtii, sanchezi, ect?


----------



## TJcali

amazing


----------



## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Congrats! I dont remember anyone on the forum with a documented cariba spawning. Well done.


----------



## dmackey

Congrats VERY WELL DONE....... and your right about caribes loving the flow I noticed that also in my shoal of pygo's the caribes are always in front the powerheads wow extremely well documented , thanks for sharing........


----------



## Piranha-Freak101

, very interesting process dont forget to send me a fry


----------



## keithdude5

Great! Insuring the continuation of the species in the pet trade for years to come!

Now just to get more Sera's breeding!


----------



## DR.CaPa Burro

proud of you and your brother beats the turkey


----------



## primetime3wise

wow, just saw this, congrats!


----------



## HGI

Wow that's wild ! Grats!


----------



## His Majesty

wow this is fantastic. great job







thanks for posting all this

looking forward to pics of the juvies


----------



## bomber

Congrats... looking foward to their growth.


----------



## primetime3wise

congrats once again.

i think tank size was a little overlooked as a factor. having one with those dimensions (220*70*70 cm) probably helped them to settle a lot. in fact, i don't think i will look into breeding pygos other than reds, and my geryi until i can obtain at least a 180g for a group. i know my geryi would love the extra depth of a 180g, vs, the 125g they are in now.

i'm not saying everything else done was irrelevant to success, just that tank size is more important than what was mentioned. i'm also not saying it can't be done in like a 75g, just in this case tank size helped a lot.


----------



## nameless

Message is updated with new baby cariba pictures. 
And another great news: New babies are coming.


----------



## Smoke

Hellz yeah! Absolutely amazing. Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## Moondemon

WOW !!!

Congrats for this !!!!


----------



## balluupnetme

beautiful


----------



## BRUNER247

I have one question for the breeder. I read that he's spawned rbp numerous times so I'm sure he can sex rbp by the belly profile. Did he notice while they were spawning which was which? Can cariba be sexed the same way as rbp?


----------



## nameless

BRUNER247 said:


> I have one question for the breeder. I read that he's spawned rbp numerous times so I'm sure he can sex rbp by the belly profile. Did he notice while they were spawning which was which? Can cariba be sexed the same way as rbp?


Hi,
Yener (breeder) is not following this topic. I am making the translations. If it is possible you can ask your questions in the below mentioned link (we have an english registration page and it is simple). I will make the translations again.
http://piranhalar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18232


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

Thanks for sharing this nameless... many thanks for translating as well


----------



## nameless

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> Thanks for sharing this nameless... many thanks for translating as well


You're welcome Joe. The translation is posted at OPEFE today. I would like to thank Frank for this. Thank you very much Frank.








http://opefe.com/PcaribaBreeding.html


----------



## Sylar_92

Insanely beautiful!














I would kill to have some baby Cariba babies of my own. Congrats on the acheivement


----------



## Sanjo Eel

This is great!! Thanks nameless!


----------



## Bacon Of Time

Amazing!!


----------



## Zeushalives

amazing


----------



## Piranha-Freak101

Sylar_92 said:


> Insanely beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would kill to have some baby Cariba babies of my own. Congrats on the acheivement


----------



## rhom15

we need more pics







i want to see a tank full of baby cariba


----------



## primetime3wise

if the OP sees this...are there any updated pics??


----------



## pirana666

primetime3wise said:


> if the OP sees this...are there any updated pics??


that would be nice....


----------



## memento

> 3/27/2011 - UPDATE According to the Administrator of www.piranhalar.com the so-called cariba breeding above IS questionable and no further information has been forthcoming. Until the hobbyist/breeder produces strong proof, I must at this time remove links to that page. My apologies to all who took this spawning operation as fact.


OPEFE


----------



## primetime3wise

oh god, i hope the entire thing wasn't fabricated


----------



## rhom15

i think we got played


----------



## Smoke

Wow


----------



## nameless

Hi all,

I kindly request to close and lock the topic, since there are no update pictures and videos shared by Yener even we requested for them. After the questions aroused from our members about the reality of this breeding, we all expected to see the new pictures or videos. Because of other accusations came from some of our members about whether he is planning to sell the baby caribas as seemed to be imported and whether there is a collaboration with some people whom we do not know, to sell caribas with his name not seen or heard. He totally refused it and told that he will never come back to the forum because of these accusations. The second part of the accusations is not our concern as forum staff but the first part whether this breeding is a fact is our concern, since we have given our full support. We tried to reach him but our efforts went down the drain. (unanswered phone calls, messages and sms) In conclusion; we, as "piranhalar.com" staff no longer support Yener and his claim about breeding cariba. We are sorry for any conveniences. 
We trusted one of our members, but it turns out that it can be fake. 
Thank you for your understanding,
Baris Uzmay

p.s. Yener is also banned from our forum.


----------



## Guest

That's a shame, but a ban seems pretty harsh.


----------



## Piro

nameless said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I kindly request to close and lock the topic, since there are no update pictures and videos shared by Yener even we requested for them. After the questions aroused from our members about the reality of this breeding, we all expected to see the new pictures or videos. Because of other accusations came from some of our members about whether he is planning to sell the baby caribas as seemed to be imported and whether there is a collaboration with some people whom we do not know, to sell caribas with his name not seen or heard. He totally refused it and told that he will never come back to the forum because of these accusations. The second part of the accusations is not our concern as forum staff but the first part whether this breeding is a fact is our concern, since we have given our full support. We tried to reach him but our efforts went down the drain. (unanswered phone calls, messages and sms) In conclusion; we, as &#147;piranhalar.com&#148; staff no longer support Yener and his claim about breeding cariba. We are sorry for any conveniences.
> We trusted one of our members, but it turns out that it can be fake.
> Thank you for your understanding,
> Baris Uzmay
> 
> p.s. Yener is also banned from our forum.


Don't you think it is wise to completely delete this topic from piranha-fury? There could be people who take an example to this hoax. Maybe it's also wise to waith for some good/clear evidence before reacting so overly positive/enthusiastic. In my opinion it didn't look like an actual breeding from the beginning. Nevertheless I think it's a shame. Hopefully there will be some real cariba-breedings with enough proof in the future.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

Piro said:


> Don't you think it is wise to completely delete this topic from piranha-fury? There could be people who take an example to this hoax. Maybe it's also wise to waith for some good/clear evidence before reacting so overly positive/enthusiastic. In my opinion it didn't look like an actual breeding from the beginning. Nevertheless I think it's a shame. Hopefully there will be some real cariba-breedings with enough proof in the future.


the "spawning' vids were not concrete evidence but he shoed some early fry though at the time they were too small to ID as caribe and he never has updated the pics to show what can be confirmed as baby caribe as baby reds would probably look very similar up until the caribe develop a humeral spot.

damn this sucks i was hoping it to be true


----------



## memento

So far it's like a discussion about God. No one has prove he exists, but on the other hand I have never seen proof he doesn't exist.
About this spawning - is there any proof it didn't happen, or is it basically "we can't prove it, so that proves it didn't happen" ?

Just because we can not prove something díd happen, doesn't prove that it didn't...


----------



## Guest

CombiChrist said:


> So far it's like a discussion about God. No one has prove he exists, but on the other hand I have never seen proof he doesn't exist.
> About this spawning - is there any proof it didn't happen, or is it basically "we can't prove it, so that proves it didn't happen" ?
> 
> Just because we can not prove something díd happen, doesn't prove that it didn't...


Very good point. I don't see the possible motives for doing it if in the end he knew he would just get flamed cause he couldn't prove it. Who knows whether he did or didn't, I don't get why more people aren't trying his methods for themselves and seeing if it is possible. I know if I could get my hands on some cariba I definitely would give it a try.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

CombiChrist said:


> Just because we can not prove something díd happen, doesn't prove that it didn't...


 I agree though time on this site does suggest to me that when somebody makes a bold claim and then refuses or does not prove it and just dissapears that there was probably a lie somewhere in their story. I am still hoping that a month from now he will update here or somewhere to prove everybody wrong. I know many people do not use forums, websites, pubish books... but anybody can make a claim with no proof. Sure it could be true but personally I won't buy too much into it unless I see proof or know the charachter of the person making the claim and I have seen no total proof and do not know anything about this guy or his credibility.

I am not nessisarily even looking for proof but even an update to say about their growth and possibly pics if available. If a camera is broken, the op is going out of town or something a simple update could inform everybody what is happening so they don't this the op just ditched. I don't know why people would lie about breeding fish as that is abit pathetic though I have seen it happen numerous times on this site and im sure I will see it happen many more times.

Im still hoping it is true though


----------



## Mr. Hannibal

What a shame, what a shame...


----------



## BRUNER247

Hilarious! Hell make it a sticky up with breeding cariba. Or at least take out the trash & move it to hall of fame. Imo breeding cariba needs un-stickied also but what do I know.


----------



## primetime3wise

My geryi just bred! I'm taking preorders on the fry, $50 each, pm for payment options









Seriously, though, yes, what a shame...esp. to me as i failed miserably 3x w/ cariba.


----------



## Mattones

lol Pfury got Rick Rolled.


----------



## bob351

nvrmind


----------



## Fishnut2

First of all, I'd like to thank Nameless (Baris) for the time and effort he put into the translations, and posting it here. I appreciate that you shared this with us.

What I see here, is a breeder (Yener) that did a great job spawning Caribe. He took the time to film fairly good video, and even better pics. He shared his pics and advise at Piranhalar, and members "requested and expected" more. For those of you that have raised up spawns of piranha, you know...it's a lot of work. Raising bbs, feeding several times a day, water changes and maintenance, can be VERY demanding. I see a guy (Yener) that decided being a breeder was more important then the other member's "demands", for more pics and video. He decided being a breeder (raising up the fry) was more important to him, then being a photographer for the members. I don't blame him for ignoring the members, and taking care of the fry.

What is it that people don't believe? Anybody that spawned reds, and actually watched them spawn...knows that Yener's videos showed pre-spawn activity. The male was obviously dancing over the eggs. I think that would be fairly hard to fake. And the eggs were being siphoned from the spawning site that the male was dancing over. Is there a question as to whether the videos were tampered with? I've seen enough spawns to state with confidence, the videos looked pretty convincing.

All the doubt is based on the fact that Yener blew everybody off when they asked for MORE pics. When he was asked to "prove" that the fry were Caribe. I personally feel that he'd already shown plenty of proof. I think he was insulted and left because nobody believed him. Did you expect the fry to look like Caribe as soon as they were free-swimming?

This is strictly my opinion (and I hope I don't get anybody mad) but I think there's a LOT more proof that a sucessful spawn occurred...as opposed to Yener spending all this time faking it. There's a heck of a lot more proof then the spawn by Jim (?). I didn't see any pics or video on that one. But most people believe it. I think Yener could care less about Pirahalar or it's members. He's checking out a fair amount of Caribe fry...and he knows the truth!


----------



## memento

The story has two sides Fishnut. And in both sides there are flaws.

On the one hand, some updated pics when asked for should have been nice to prove that the offspring indeed were P.cariba.
On the other hand, the story of Piranhalar admins is 100% based on "one saw this, another heard that". Nothing factual.

Imo it's pretty much impossible to provide enough proof to convince the world. I even heard someone claim they were absolutely no cariba, for there wasn't a humeral spot in the first pics that should be there according to him. Reason : he once imported them that size and the spot was allready there. And then we were talking about fish approx. 1"...


----------



## Fishnut2

I totally agree it's pretty much impossible to provide enough proof, to convince everybody. But the videos are very convincing to somebody that's watched red bellies spawn. I've also seen my Caribe and Elongatus go through that pre-spawn activity. I have to take the video as fact...as it would be almost impossible to fake.

The oldest offspring pic that was provided, was at 1 month. Growth varies due to temperature, food availably, and growout space...but a 1 month old piranha fry should average about 1/2". A wild caught 1" fish will definetely have better coloration then one half it's size. In fact, the 1/2" fry would be all silver. It wouldn't show any red or (I'm guessing here) humeral spot at 1/2". I admit the fry pics don't prove that they are Caribe, but it's because the fry are too young yet. I too would've enjoyed seeing 1" fry pics (at 6-8 weeks old) I think they would've been a great followup to an informative post.

Just a note - PH/temp/hardness/substrate color/lighting/ and tank positioning can all affect the coloration of young fry. We've all seen color fade when a fish is stressed or if conditions aren't perfect. Asking for a humeral mark on a 1 month fry, is asking a lot.


----------



## Fishnut2

On the first post of this thread, all the way at the bottom...it shows Piranalar awarding Yener "Great honor by breeding Caribas". Now he is banned from thier site! The only reason I can see is that he didn't provide followup pictures after 1 month old.

Look at ALL of his You Tube videos. He only posted the Caribe ones. There are 17 in all. Want to see 1,000's of red belly wigglers. It's there. Want to see over 2500 fry...wigglers-1/2"-and 1". It's there. Want to see piranha courting, egg release, dancing over eggs, eggs being siphoned. It's all there! This guy should be member of the year. And he got banned for sharing what he knows.

Granted, there is still no undeniable proof that he spawned Caribe. His videos show Caribe courting, a male dancing over eggs, and eggs being siphoned from the same spot. That's more then anybody else has showed us! I'd push the Piranalar members out of the way, to get a chance to shake Yener's hand, and congratulate him.

Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me share it.

Rich


----------

