# RHOM is on his side!



## RHOMBEUS1 (Sep 24, 2003)

Ok guys heres the deal. My 6 inch rhom has been swimming around violently these last couple days and has been bumping into things while going in circles around the whole tank. He has been leaning against things while hes up but today i see him on his side on the floor but still breathing. He hasnt eaten in about 3-5 days now and i dont know what to do. I checked the water parameters and they all look good. What should i do? Thanks for the input guys.

Andy

p.s. Ill try to get you guys a pic if i can get the digicam in time.


----------



## tecknik (Jul 18, 2003)

If all the water parameters are in check, then the only thing I can think of is that he might need more oxygen. Do you have a powerhead running? Does he look like he's taking big grasps of air? Try to post that pic when you can...


----------



## RHOMBEUS1 (Sep 24, 2003)

Well, I have 2 Fluval 304's and a powerhead going so im pretty sure its sufficient. The temp should be around 78-82 correct? Thanks for the reply.

Andy


----------



## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

yes 78-82 is fine.


----------



## mr_rob_boto (Aug 31, 2003)

How long have you had him? I just got my 2.5" rhom 4 days ago, and he does the tipping over on his side thing everytime I get up and walk over to see him, but them floats right back up as soon as I walk away. He's a great fish. I hope yours is nothing serious.


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

That is not a normal behavior. I would have to assume you are missing something in your water tests. What type of tests are you running and what are the results?


----------



## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

could be stressed for some reason


----------



## 94NDTA (Jul 14, 2003)

are your lights on really bright? my fish goes nuts if I don't have the lights off or a dimmed bulb.


----------



## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

Very normal small rhom behavior. I would suggest adding more cover until he adjusts and gets comfy.


----------



## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

PiranhaMaster said:


> That is not a normal behavior. I would have to assume you are missing something in your water tests. What type of tests are you running and what are the results?


 Apparently you haven't kept many small rhoms. Very typical behavior.


----------



## vlahos (Sep 7, 2003)

is a six incher small though? 
kind of seems strange. make sure your water tests are accurate. and if he seems stressed, turn off any lights you may have running


----------



## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

vlahos said:


> is a six incher small though?
> kind of seems strange. make sure your water tests are accurate. and if he seems stressed, turn off any lights you may have running


 Small for a rhom, yes.

Color seem normal? Labored breathing? Are the fins pinched or fully extended? Any bouyancy problems? Eyes clear?


----------



## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

my reds did that when they were being shipped to me. but now they are find. for baby piranhas it is normal for them to fake death and play with you. sit and watch him for a couple of hours and not move and then see what he does. he could just be scared.hope it all works out :nod:


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

Serrapygo said:


> PiranhaMaster said:
> 
> 
> > That is not a normal behavior. I would have to assume you are missing something in your water tests. What type of tests are you running and what are the results?
> ...


 Actually I have kept many small Rhoms and I currently have 10 of them. None of them are stressed out at all and do not throw themselves in to things. They are very calm and are not bothered by much other than brite lights. And they definitly aren't lying on their sides. EVER! Mine are only about 3" long. I woud have to assume that you did not take proper care of your rhom either.


----------



## tecknik (Jul 18, 2003)

PiranhaMaster said:


> Serrapygo said:
> 
> 
> > PiranhaMaster said:
> ...


 Are you housing them together temporarily or are your rhoms in separate tanks?


----------



## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

I don't think this is normal either. Check PH and ammonia and dim the lights.


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

All 10 are living together and so far all are doing well. They fight a little to show dominance but nothing more than that. I keep them well fed and they know that whatever is dropped in the tank is food and they attack it instantly. They also understand that I am the one that brings the food and they show no fear of me what so ever. Even when I am cleaning the tank they try to bite the dead goldfish boddies that are swirling around in my siphon. They are way too small to do any damage to the siphon but it'll be very interesting what types of precautions I'll have to take when they get bigger if they continue to not be afraid of my hand in the tank. These are definitly the most aggressive group of P's I've ever had and I truly love it. You can see pics of them in my gallery.


----------



## AzNP (May 21, 2003)

all i can think of is the lighting... when it goes nuts, it bumps glass then settles down sideways dizzy??...
neways how big is yur tank? the bigger the better and yea more coverage would help 
i dont think its that biga deal unless its nonstop glass bashing 24/7


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

They all come out at feeding time and don't care if I watch or take pics with a flash, they just wanna eat and nothing is gonna stop them.


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

Oh, forgot to mention. There are Spilo's mixed in with the Rhoms. You can see both in the picture.


----------



## RHOMBEUS1 (Sep 24, 2003)

First of all, thanks for all the input. I still dont know what the problem is yet but i got a pic for you guys to check out. Hope this helps.

( ph-7.4, nitrite-0, ammonia-0 )

Andy

Turns out today he decided to chill like this, upside-down...


----------



## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

Sorry PMaster. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

RHOMBEUS1, you have a serious problem here. That's definitely a bouyancy problem. A internal parasite is all I can think of. I hate to sound grim but, it's probably just a matter of time before he dies.
I would get DonH's attention on this one. Good luck.

Moved to disease and parasites.


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

1st step is to lower that PH to 7.0 and see his reaction. Update us with results and we can move forward.


----------



## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

oh man, thats worse than I thought. I figured it was leaning or something.


----------



## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

a beautiful one too









RHOMBEUS1 clearly answer me the following questions:

1- How long have you had him and how big is the tank

2- Did he start acting like this after a water change? are you sure you added you water conditioner, etc.

3- When was the last time he was acting "normal"


----------



## mrwilson99 (Jul 12, 2003)

I am thinking chlorine shock.


----------



## RHOMBEUS1 (Sep 24, 2003)

kouma said:


> a beautiful one too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 kouma,

I've had him now for about 3-4 months and he's in a 60g tank. I havn't had a water change yet and im positive I've added the correct water conditioners. The last time i remember him acting normal was about 10 days ago? I have now lowered the ph to 7.0 and awaiting further directions towards saving my fish. I appreciate the help guys.









How long can a P go without eating? I know he didnt eat for about a week, but i checked this morning and i couldnt find the one feeder i left in there just in case he got hungry. Today he was up but was leaning again.

Thanks again guys.

Andy


----------



## fluidnyc (Oct 15, 2003)

This info comes from: http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/FAQ.htm#equillibrium

*My fish are upside-down/ can't swim:*
This is a common problem whereby fish lose their equilibrium and are unable to maintain their position. This can result in the fish swimming awkwardly, laying upside-down either on the bottom or top of the water, or unable to maintain a horizontal position in the water. This is often attributed to swim-bladder problems and indeed this is the most common cause of loss of equilibrium. The swim-bladder is an air-filled sac laying just under the backbone at the top of the abdominal cavity. By inflating / deflating the swim-bladder, the fish can adjust its position in the water and maintain neutral buoyancy.

The swim-bladder can be affected by bacterial or viral diseases. In addition the swim-bladder may malfunction, leading to over or under inflation. Clearly anything which affects the proper functioning of the swim-bladder will also affect the fish's equilibrium.

However, before diagnosing all equilibrium problems as swim-bladder disease, we should be aware that there are other conditions which can cause buoyancy problems. Disease in other organs such as kidneys and intestines for example can also cause problems. This can happen if there is any swelling of the affected organs leading to either a change in organ density or pressure being put on the swim-bladder. This is often a problem with fancy goldfish whose abdominal cavity is tightly packed.

Treatment is difficult, mainly because it is virtually impossible to diagnose the cause and secondly there are only a few conditions that will respond to treatment. It is always worth considering a course of antibiotic injections in case a bacterial infection is involved. An attempt should be made to see whether the fish is defecating, in case the problem is being caused by an intestinal blockage. If this is suspected it is worth either trying to feed the fish a few frozen peas, which act as a laxative, or else try baths in Epsom salts (70g / litre for 5 minutes) which has the same effect.

If these treatments do not work, there is little else that can be done. There is some work being carried out on exploratory surgery, but there are very few veterinarians undertaking this "cutting edge" procedure.
-
I hear the pea trick works..
-
First If you have your fish in a bowl, and your normal routine consist of 100% water changes, As soon as you notice signs of swimbladder do a complete water change, taking care not to stress the fish by having the water temp as close to his bowl as possible, and using something as a cup so you don't have to net your fish....
After your water change you should not feed your fish any food for two days. On the third day feed your fish a fresh pea. Frozen peas thawed, popped out of the skin, and cut into bite size pieces. And then do another water change so that any uneaten peas do not contaminate your water....
If you do partials, or have a tank, do a significant change when you suspect swimbladder disease and then follow this treatment.
If you don't use aquarium salt this is a good addition to most tanks. The recommended dose is one teaspoon per gallon, or one tablespoon per five gallons. If you have never added salt and you are unsure; you may want to first acclimate him at only 1/2 tsp per gallon.....
If this seems to be a frequent problem you may consider feeding less. Your water quality could indicate more frequent water changes, or in my case I break up the food for this one particular betta. It seems easier for him to digest. All my fish seem to love the peas and it may be of great benifit to feed a pea once a week.
If you suspect that there is bacteria causing the symptoms of swimbladder perhaps antibotics may be needed.
I recommend the pea "trick" first as it will at least correct the swimbladder symptoms that bacteria or bad water quality could be causing.
I wanted to share this treatment because I have responded to many posts, recommending this procedure and I'm not sure if people take it seriously.
It is cheap, simple, and has never failed my bettas....I have one male who has looked dead laying on his side and he has always recovered by this simple effective treatment. Just recently One of my females could not swim toward the bottom of her tank, ( she would float heplessly back to the top) I immediatly changed the water, held of food for two days and then fed the pea, she is perfectly fine.
I know there are many people who probably lose thier fish needlessly, or who treat with harsh antibotics when it may not be necessary.
First give this a whirl! And pass it on.

By Katie Ogles (petfish.net)
-
This supposdly helps swim latter problems quick.








Riase Temp to 86Deg.


----------



## RHOMBEUS1 (Sep 24, 2003)

fluidnyc,
That is great info. Im going to try it and check for results. Ill post an updated pic soon, thanks again.

Andy


----------



## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

FluidNYC, Any association with Fluid Records?


----------

