# Unknown Serras.



## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Pic 1 - side shot with flash
Pic 2 - side shot without flash
Pic 3 - front shot showing underbelly.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Pic 2


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Pic 3


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Interesting. It does look somewhat irritans, but the spotting does not look irritans to me and he is less elongated that the irritans I have seen. Tail doesnt look rhom to me. I would have to guess...and this is a guess...spilo cf.


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

Could this be S. Marginatus???

Jim


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

looks like a Rhom and spilo cross... nice


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The tail edging looks damaged, the large belly scutes near anal opening (pre-anal) appear large as in S. altispinis. S. marginatus has the distinctive "V" of the tail and occasional examples of SpiloCF (particularly when stressed) show a lack of terminal black band almost making it appear like a dark "V" only. The angle of the fish is not a true flank shot. Giving it an awkward appearance.

I'll reserve opinion for a better flank photo and a bit more information on the fish (is tail damaged? size of fish? etc.)


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

strawberry banna rhom :laugh:

it looks like a cross between a rhom and spilo but the tail is waht throws me off


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

How large is the fish, Jerry?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

hastatus said:


> The tail edging looks damaged, the large belly scutes near anal opening (pre-anal) appear large as in S. altispinis. S. marginatus has the distinctive "V" of the tail and occasional examples of SpiloCF (particularly when stressed) show a lack of terminal black band almost making it appear like a dark "V" only. The angle of the fish is not a true flank shot. Giving it an awkward appearance.
> 
> I'll reserve opinion for a better flank photo and a bit more information on the fish (is tail damaged? size of fish? etc.)


 tail is not damaged. He is 6-7" long.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Certainly is an interesting fish. No eye color, SPILO CF at that size normally have reddish-orange orbit. Probably S. marginatus without having a better photo of the flank.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Thank you. I will try to post a better flank pic t'row a.m. when I get home from work. Thanks again.


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Probably S. marginatus without having a better photo of the flank.


 That was also my opinion Frank.It seems that i really have leard something all this time.....

Thanks Frank for all the info!









Jim


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

It surely does look like a S. Marginatus. Found this pic on the web. similarities are definitely there.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> _plakyda Posted on Feb 3 2004, 08:00 AM
> It surely does look like a S. Marginatus. Found this pic on the web. similarities are definitely there.


 Except that fish in your photo looks like a subadult S. rhombeus. Tail certainly is bit off. S. marginatus is pointed snouted with the jaw tilted upwards (like those in compressus group). No mention of humeral spot in description.

S. marginatus photo.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Frank, I hope this flank shot is sufficient. Not easy to get a fish to cooperate. Hopefully there can be a conclusion to this identification.


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## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

Frank, this looks just like the P that we used to get as S.Hollandi many years ago. Not sure if they are even imported anymore as I haven't seen one here in 10 years. I see that the Hollandi pics on your site look nothing like the old ones we used to get so I assume they were imported under the wrong name back then.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm fairly certain the above fish is S. marginatus. I've only seen nice dead ones and a couple live photos, mostly in breeding color.



> PiranhaMaster Posted on Feb 3 2004, 07:23 PM
> Frank, this looks just like the P that we used to get as S.Hollandi many years ago. Not sure if they are even imported anymore as I haven't seen one here in 10 years. I see that the Hollandi pics on your site look nothing like the old ones we used to get so I assume they were imported under the wrong name back then.


The S. hollandi you speak of were usually juvenile rhombeus misidentified. Jegu has some fishes out of Brazil that nearly fit the photo in the old Myer's piranha book of S. hollandi. These fishes are very close to S. eigenmanni appearance and only a few characters separate it from that species and S. humeralis. Those are lumped together in the Gery "humeralis complex".


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The other thing I wanted to reiterate, its difficult to just look at a photo and state its a specific species since many of these fishes run together in their growth morphology. The body of the above fish is very discoid, yet it coloration is reminescent of S. altispinis (SPILO CF). If there is no pigmentation at the caudal fin edge (difficult to tell even from the newest photo) then S. marginatus seems to be an appropriate name. Sounds like I'm backing off eh? In a way I am because I do make mistakes. But as long as you understand this is my best guess on a fish I don't have in front of me.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

I think it looks like irritans,but Im just a hobby guy no pro.

One question I have,this fish seems to look like the irritans from the opefe website.
What are the differences in the fish from the irritans pics on the opefe site??Looks identical to me??

Just curious wondering what the differences I am looking for are??

thanks


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

I looked again,this guy on the post appears to have more orange around the mouth,I noticed the black v on the tail is somewhat different also.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Thank you Frank and everyone else. There is no pigmentation in the edge of the caudal fin, it is translucent. To the king


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I think it looks like irritans,but Im just a hobby guy no pro.
> 
> One question I have,this fish seems to look like the irritans from the opefe website.
> What are the differences in the fish from the irritans pics on the opefe site??Looks identical to me??
> ...


Fair question to ask. S. irritans is peppered with small spots down to its belly. Also S. irritans snout is straighforward not turned slightly upwards like those of S. marginatus, S. compressus, S. hastatus, etc. S. irritans has yellow eyes, this fish does not. Older S. irritans have a dark, black caudal fin, this fish does not.

S. irritans is a relatively small species 13.8 cm SL. While I can understand you using comparison of both species by looking over OPEFE photos vs this one, there is sufficient evidence to discriminate S. irritans from this species by other noticeable morphological characters visible on the body.


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