# Tank Still a bit Cloudy, Suggestions? Ac500 vs sp



## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

Okay, Well i havea 70 gallon with 2 piranhas, by friday im taking my two out and getting 6 baby reds.

Anyways i was running JUST a HydroSponge filter, but apparently that was dumb, so i bought a ac 500 filter which is working fine. but i dont know if i have the start of an algae bloom or what, I took my Hydro Sponge out and tried cleaning both filters and it didnt make a difference, and did a 50% water change.

look at the pics and tell me what u think, its fairly clear but i wanted it like spotless no clouds or anything.

1 more question, Does the Ac500 put enough air into the tank, there is only minor bubbles coming off the water from it. so for now i left my air pump line with an airstone in the corner of the tank, figured it can;t hurt.

Should i run the hydrosponge and the ac500 or would it even make a difference, i mean the tank looks a hell of a lot better without it but if its going to help say like 30-40% then i will leave it in. open to suggestions


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Firstley mate you forgot the photo... I can see how bad it is until i see it. Have you got any plants in there...driftwood...un eaten food. Just attach that photo and i could help you more.

Sparkles


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

It should be in, Ill attach it again


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Sorry computer screwed up!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can see it now. I can see you have a large and big enough filter in there which should be doing the job. Did you soak the wood before you put it in there? Also have you been adding chemicals to the water for the plants?

Sparkles


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

Plants are fake, and theres no wood, its just rocks. and i rinsed everything in hot water before i put it in.


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

OK.......lets see. you said you installed a Ac500 into the tank. Try to repossission it to create more bubbles, as you know a tank with fish in needs regular oxygen intake!

Sparkles


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

i got my airline going into the oposite corner as the filter, its putting enough oxygen. i took a pic but u cant see it, anyways theres lots of air going in. so thats not an issue,

What else can i do with my water? is there a way to tell forsure if its an algae bloom?

and should i run both of my filters?


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Actully thinking about it, your tank might be too high in nitrates levels due to the lack of plants which sort of eat them. if you could tank a nitrates water test and even a pH water test and post the results on here, It may help.

Sparkles


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Yes run both the filters as well to make sure. and do them tests. Got to go. Will find some information about this issue for you.

Sparkles


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

thanks, well Anyone else have an opinion about the filters or my water? Would be appreciated, Thanks a lot

do you need real plants or are my fakies okay?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

was the filter brand new? And did you just remove the old filter when you installed this one?

It sounds as if you are having an ammonia spike in the tank, like a mini-cycle, which is causing the cloudy water. The new filter doesnt have any bacteria in it yet that filters the tank, so the ammonia will be building up.

I would suggest doing a water test to confirm this, and if it is high ammonia then....

Do a 40% water change and treat the tank with salt (see dosage amounts in the FAQ above). If you can get hold of any bio-spira then also use this on your tank as will help the mini-cycle go quicker.

Other than that its a case of riding it out.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

i left my sponge in for a week after i got my ac 500 i just cleaned out both of my filters yesterday so maybe that was a bad idea.

When i did my my water change yesterday i did however add salt, so thats already in there so atleast i did 1 thing right, should and i only put in enough tap water conditioner for 20 gallons but i changes 30-35 but i figured it would be okay.

Should i leave my hydro sponge in along with my other filter? or will the ac 500 in a 70 gallon with 6 p's provide enough filtration, cuz i really find it ugly. and the fish tend to stay away from that half of the tank.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

shocker45 said:


> i left my sponge in for a week after i got my ac 500 i just cleaned out both of my filters yesterday so maybe that was a bad idea.
> 
> When i did my my water change yesterday i did however add salt, so thats already in there so atleast i did 1 thing right, should and i only put in enough tap water conditioner for 20 gallons but i changes 30-35 but i figured it would be okay.
> 
> ...


Did you clean your filters with tap water?

Yeah I would keep both filters, their is no harm in having a little extra filtration on a tank!


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

yea i cleaned them in tap water, the sponge i rinsed out and squeezed it, the filter for the ac 500 i just rinsed for a couple seconds to get some of the crud out. but i tried to keep some of the bacteria in.

good or bad?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

shocker45 said:


> yea i cleaned them in tap water, the sponge i rinsed out and squeezed it, the filter for the ac 500 i just rinsed for a couple seconds to get some of the crud out. but i tried to keep some of the bacteria in.
> 
> good or bad?
> [snapback]1109343[/snapback]​


yeah thats the problem, if you clean your bio-media you need to use either tank water (put some in a bucket during a water change and use that) or treated tap water. Otherwise you will kill of the bacteria.

Your tank is basically going through another cycle, so ammonia is going to be high, etc. I would do anymore water changes to give your tank a chance to cycle, and would definitly see if you can get hold of any bio-spira to help this along.

Ammonia can be a real killer for P's, so keep a close eye on things!


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

where can i get bio-spira?

and how long will it take before the tank is all good? i have some stuff to reduce ammonia levels should i put it in? or maybe get a tester for the water?

How long should i hold off on getting the my Baby P's then, cuz im sure they arn't as strong as my guys mine are 7" so i mean they can probabaly take it. but i dont wanna risk some juvies.

so how long do u think? would it help if i got a couple dozen feeders and just let them swim around, just more fish being in there crapping and dying and stuff, might create more bacteria ??


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

are you getting rid of the big guys anyway? As if so I would do it now so they dont die on you.

It'll take a couple of weeks atleast for the tank to fully cycle again. Check out your local fish store for bio-spira, and definitly get some test kits as you'll need it to know when the cycle is done.

Check out the FAQ for loads of info on cycling the tank.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

a couple weeks







i was hoping to get my juvies in here this week. 
what if i get that bio spera, left these guys in, and dumped in a buncha feeders for a week? and no water changes or anything,

how would that be?

I found my old sponge from when these p's were in the 26 gallon tank, it was black and gross. i squeezed it 3 times in the tank and so much stuff came out, then i put it under that carbon thing in my ac 500 so its mixed in with the other sponge. so that should help build of the bacteria quicker as well.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

shocker45 said:


> a couple weeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the idea is to take some water out the tank to wash the filters, not do it in the tank









If the filter had been in water all this time with an ammonia source then yes it will help, but if not it wont help at all!

To be honest all you can do now is wait it out. You've already got the ammonia spike needed for the cycle, and might be most the way through. The only way is to gt some test kits and put up your results.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

k, ill get some tommorow then you guys can tell me whats goin on.

whats a good test kit or are they all the same?


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi again, you can get an all in one (5 in 1) test kit from most fish shops. it includes tests such as pH, Nh2, Nh3 and others... That shoud be a good one because you can also see if anything else needs to be looked at from the test results.

Sparkles


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Mr Sparkles said:


> Hi again, you can get an all in one (5 in 1) test kit from most fish shops. it includes tests such as pH, Nh2, Nh3 and others... That shoud be a good one because you can also see if anything else needs to be looked at from the test results.
> 
> Sparkles
> 
> ...


you'll want to get a seperate ammonia test aswell as those above!


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

whys that? the amonia test is included...

Sparkles


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Mr Sparkles said:


> whys that? the amonia test is included...
> 
> Sparkles
> [snapback]1109458[/snapback]​


ammonia isnt normally included in the 5in1 tests, atleast the ones my LFS has!


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Ok, here in the U.K every 5 in one test has a ammonia test included?

Anyway shocker45 just do that...

Sparkles


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Mr Sparkles said:


> Ok, here in the U.K every 5 in one test has a ammonia test included?
> 
> Anyway shocker45 just do that...
> 
> ...


I am in the UK, and none of mine do


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Oh... right... mine does anyway. I just done a test about 2 hours ago.

Sparkles


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## JAC (Jan 19, 2004)

Man, I dig your bud lamp.

I used to run my 80gal with 3 pygos with a single AC500, 0 problems.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

Okay, So i got my water tested








its not good

Ph 8.5
Nitrite 3.7
Ammonia 7.3

I know these are very high numbers, i bought some Pro Z Ammonia removeing crystals to put in my filter, she said this would help a bit,

Should i also add more Cycle stuff into the tank to build up bacteria?

and what it be wise to drop in say like 40 or 50 feeders just to help build up the bacteria, i need to have this tank good by monday for my juvy reds. my bid guys can take it but i dont want to risk the little guys

Let me know what to do, im stumped


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

shocker45 said:


> Okay, So i got my water tested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still cycling for sure, the problem with those crystals is some of that stuff will mess up your ammonia test and make it look like you have no ammonia.

the cycle in the bottle really never worked for anyone I know.

dont add 40 or 50 feeders this will not speed up the process,Your beneficial bacteria will develop at the same rate with 10 feeders or 50 feeders, it builds up to withstand a certain bioload, more wont make it go faster.

At this point dont change anymore water, you have to let it cycle.

I would add salt to help with nitrite poisoning- i think you may have done that already

do those crystals detoxify ammonia????If not try some amqueal plus to detoxify the ammonia and wait it out.

Biospira will speed the process, or if anyone you know has an established aquarium, you could snag some of their media or used sponges that have bacteria.

Just dont change the water anymore!!!!!!!!!!!

And dont add anything else except salt---which I think you did already, and some type of ammonia detoxifier.

I think you didnt give it enough time, its cool though, your going to have to play the waiting game now.Be patient, and dont change that water.

test daily, when ammonia is at zero, nitrite is at zero, and you have NITRATE levels, these should not be zero you have an established tank.

Your water test kits you need are

ph
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate

you need these 4 so find a test or buy the individuals and test daily.

Craig stables was right on about the cleaning of your media.Only clean it in aquarium water from your tank.

I drain water from my aquarium into a 5 gallon bucket.

I dunk my sponge in there and rinse my media in it.I use a paper towel to wipe out the inside.

Use a cup to refill your filter with water from the aquarium.....

No worries it will be fine, it just takes time and patience


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

oh yeah that ph is very high









thats why I dont like "mystery" water clearing chemicals, also that could be salt, how much did you add????????

test your tap water ph when you get your kit, and let us know what it is.Im concerned about your ph, that is unusual,Im more concerned about that then the cloudy water.

hopefully all made sense in my last post


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

i put in, Ammonia- Removing crystals i know ammonia turns into good nitrates, but there was so much i figured this couldnt hurt. i will go get some more feeders and dunk em in, ill just get a dozen. anything that helps.

let me know what u think


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

k i added 3 dozen feeders in, figured it would help. its kinda funny, my p's are in 1 corner, all the others are in the other corner.

i added aboout 2 tea spoons of salt as well, that was 2 days ago.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

the feeders really wouldnt help at all as you've already had your ammonia spike, so all they are going to do is build up the ammonia even higher!!

Your really going to have to wait it out, no other option. The ONLY way to speed it up is to get bio-spira or filter media from an established tank.


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Yer... going back to the plants again. My tank had no plants in it when i first set up my tank (for about a week) and it looked like your tank (cloudy). I then bought some flora boost which is nitrate-free and it done the job exactly! Now my aquarium is cristal clear!

Sparkles


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

so i should get some real plants and some bio spira?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

shocker45 said:


> so i should get some real plants and some bio spira?
> [snapback]1111752[/snapback]​


real plants really arent a necessity, infact probably only about 5%of the tanks on here have real plants (I never have). Bio-spira would quicken up your cycle thats for sure, if you can get hold of some use it ASAP and it might be readt for your Juvi's


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

Would it be safe to put my Juvy's in before the tank has fully cycled. im going to check my levels tommorow and hopefully everything is down. There on there way to me, so i mean i dont really have another place to put them.

i have a tiny little 4 gallon thats cycled and ready to go, but i dont know if id want to keep 6 juvy's in there until my big tank is ready.

what do u guys think?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

shocker45 said:


> Would it be safe to put my Juvy's in before the tank has fully cycled. im going to check my levels tommorow and hopefully everything is down. There on there way to me, so i mean i dont really have another place to put them.
> 
> i have a tiny little 4 gallon thats cycled and ready to go, but i dont know if id want to keep 6 juvy's in there until my big tank is ready.
> 
> ...


How big are you getting them at?

If you have to put them in then you have to! Bio-spira is a must if you are putting them in, and make sure you dose up the tank with salt as already mentioned.


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Right, Bio-spira is a must, you need to do that as soon as possible!

Sparkles


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

Alright, my fish are in.

im starting with fresh water in my 70 gallon tank and putting in my ac 500 and sponge in that both have media on them so that will help.

My P's are just over 1" in length. they are real babies.

how do you think they will do?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

you took water out and put new stuff in? Did you treat the water to remove the chlorine?

Personally I would of stuck with how you were, as you were part way through the cycle already. Now you'll be beginning again and probably putting them through further stress than they would of gone through!

Did you et some bio-spira, as now you've changed all the water I would definitly say you'll need it!


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

sorry, i should have mentioned earlier. My tank sprung a leak so i had to drain it and put my 7" Piranhas into my 20 gallon tank, Arn;t i just having the best of luck. haha.

anyways i took the water in for a sample and i dont know what was in my 20 gallon tank but its LOADED with ammonia and way to much Nitrate now. ammonia was way off the chart.

Basically the guy who im buying my p's off of said dont put this water in my new tank cuz it will contaminate it, So im just Starting off Fresh

I can't find anywhere around me that bio spira stuff, i found this one thing though it sounds similar. it sounds like a knock off. its Called BIOMAX

She said its essentially the same thing, Apparently that combined with "cycle" the tank will be good in about 5 days.

Let me know what u guys think please and thankya.

P.s. Remember im selling my large 7" rbp's and buying 6 1" rbp's thats why i want to have the tank ready and good for them.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

okay, everything is done. new tank is set up with the new water,

i did something right because this time its crystal crystal clear. it looks awsome. i just put a blue light in it and it makes it super cool for night time.

im going to try a black light, see if i get a cool effect


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Nice ending to your cloudy tank problem! What did you add to the tank in the end to make it clear? You have to tell.

Sparkles


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

you've still got a good chance it'll go cloudy again, all you've done is remove all the ammonia that was helping your tank cycle by using new water.

When the ammonia builds up again (fish waste, left over food, etc.) your filters wont be colonized enough to handle it. This will cause a build up of ammonia again and possibly more cloudiness!

It'll just be a vicious cycle that is harming yur fish until you let your tank cycle fully!


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

yea, its possible, but im just going to keep the feeding for a minimum, until i get my juvy's anyways.

its just all fresh water with some Prime. and some old media


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## ReDraGon-> (May 24, 2004)

well if u are having a problem with ammonia, try using a product called "stability" its by seachem and it works great , it basically bonds the ammonia where it isnt harmful to the fish...

u can buy it at any LFs but i doubt petco or petsmart carries the stuff, just try one of those privately owned stores...

and u are going to possibly get a new ammonia spile from what u have done adding the new water.... like craig said u shouldve let it be....

and just because your water is clear doesent mean its good water... 
i work at an lfs and ive tested water that was crytal clear only to find high ammonia and nitite , so u shuold really test your water before assuming it is ok just because its clear

u basically need more bacteria in there to colonize before the ammonia burns there gills...just because ur fish look good dont mean they arent hurting on the inside...


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

im just going to keep an eye on my ammonia,

Right now My Ammonia was really low. like .3 or something my nitrites and nitrates are a little high.

so im guessing im going to hit my ammonia spike. the new guys have to go in today, so im just going to keep a close eye and make sure it doesn;t spike too bad.


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Ok, Your tank does look alot better in that photo of yours. Tell us how this situation ends. Good luck.

Sparkles


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