# Newbie 20gLong



## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Well this is my first SW setup. I have an ac70 for filtration with just the sponge. I'm using a 36" nova SLR. What would be a good power head for my tank?? I plan to get some rubble this week to stick in the filter. So whats next?? Are there any suggestions on making my aquascape to look better? When can I put some fish in it? And I need some suggestions for fish. I bought 3 damsels and only one is left. I'm not to sure of the quality of fish from my LFS. I plan to find another source for SW stuff.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

I would definately take the sponge out of the filter, and replace it with rock rubble (you can break pieces smaller with a hammer!), and maybe a small sock of carbon. As for powerheads, i like the Hydor Koralia for the money, but two of them with a wavemaker is fairly expensive. you could try 2 Maxijet 1200s or something a little cheaper. I have two of them on my ten gallon, and it works nice, but if you plan on going with any corals (after the tank is ready) you will need to mod them for more flow, and get a wavemaker like the oceanpulse duo. Make sure you are keeping up on water changes, and using good RO/DI water... thats one thing you cant skimp on

Whats next? How long has this tank been setup? get a test kit, and test the water would be a good idea....

** now that i see that other picture, DEF test your water and post results... How long did you wait untill you added fish?


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Skunkbudfour20 said:


> I would definately take the sponge out of the filter, and replace it with rock rubble (you can break pieces smaller with a hammer!), and maybe a small sock of carbon. As for powerheads, i like the Hydor Koralia for the money, but two of them with a wavemaker is fairly expensive. you could try 2 Maxijet 1200s or something a little cheaper. I have two of them on my ten gallon, and it works nice, but if you plan on going with any corals (after the tank is ready) you will need to mod them for more flow, and get a wavemaker like the oceanpulse duo. Make sure you are keeping up on water changes, and using good RO/DI water... thats one thing you cant skimp on
> 
> Whats next? How long has this tank been setup? get a test kit, and test the water would be a good idea....
> 
> ** now that i see that other picture, DEF test your water and post results... How long did you wait untill you added fish?


My nitrates are 20 and nitrite are like 5.0!! That is all I can test for. I just started the tank 3 days ago. I wasnt planning to buy and fish b/c I though I read not to until the coral is all cured. But the LFS told me not to start a tank without buying some fish to cycle the tank?!? Thats where the damsals come into play. Acutally they told my to start fish first and then add rock after a month....

What number hydor should I get??


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> I would definately take the sponge out of the filter, and replace it with rock rubble (you can break pieces smaller with a hammer!), and maybe a small sock of carbon. As for powerheads, i like the Hydor Koralia for the money, but two of them with a wavemaker is fairly expensive. you could try 2 Maxijet 1200s or something a little cheaper. I have two of them on my ten gallon, and it works nice, but if you plan on going with any corals (after the tank is ready) you will need to mod them for more flow, and get a wavemaker like the oceanpulse duo. Make sure you are keeping up on water changes, and using good RO/DI water... thats one thing you cant skimp on
> 
> Whats next? How long has this tank been setup? get a test kit, and test the water would be a good idea....
> 
> ** now that i see that other picture, DEF test your water and post results... How long did you wait untill you added fish?


My nitrates are 20 and nitrite are like 5.0!! That is all I can test for. I just started the tank 3 days ago. I wasnt planning to buy and fish b/c I though I read not to until the coral is all cured. But the LFS told me not to start a tank without buying some fish to cycle the tank?!? Thats where the damsals come into play. Acutally they told my to start fish first and then add rock after a month....

What number hydor should I get??
[/quote]

If you started the tank 3 days ago, i wouldnt plan on fish for atleast a month... the using fish to cycle is not really a great idea, and a good business ploy because they make money and you kill the fish. I would definitely have your rock in right after your sand, and water is just before that so i would just throw everything they say out the window... and do LOTS of reading online in the time you have, before your tank just becomes a pit of money with no pay off in the end. There is a difference in coral, and live rock also... when the polyps are dead, growth stops and it becomes "live rock" (whats in your tank) which is just referring to the "bugs" that live in it...

you will need more than one powerhead, so maybe 2 #3s or something? As much flow as you can possibly have without moving your sand into a sandstorm! i have no experience with them in 20 longs, so just read around.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

So I'm not going to kill my live rock or anything right?? Yeah like I said my LFS sucks. I went in there on what I had gathered from the SW forums and some how they talked me out of what I knew was right. Thats what sucks about something I'm not to familiar with. B.c with freshwater I can go in there and be like F off b.c I know what I'm doing....

So after a few months I can add some fish?? When can I add some coral? And what kind can I grow with my 2x39w t5?

Thanks a ton man


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> So I'm not going to kill my live rock or anything right?? Yeah like I said my LFS sucks. I went in there on what I had gathered from the SW forums and some how they talked me out of what I knew was right. Thats what sucks about something I'm not to familiar with. B.c with freshwater I can go in there and be like F off b.c I know what I'm doing....
> 
> So after a few months I can add some fish?? When can I add some coral? And what kind can I grow with my 2x39w t5?
> 
> Thanks a ton man


YGPM, you can add the fish once your cycle has begun and you start to see your first algae bloom(s)... once your nitrates are down, and nitrites are a little lower (they will prob spike soon then drop again) i would highly recomend getting a PH, DKh and calcium test kit ASAP.... nothing but "dry" can hurt live rock, if your fish die it will just feed the bacteria (which is why you should just use a piece of shrimp to cycle, and not kill fish) AS for the LFS, just smile and nod... no need to speak, get what you are there for and get your information else where

Did we talk about if you used tap water or RO/DI to fill the tank?


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

So I should of left the two dead fish in the tank?? I have a RO/di system already at my house....
So what kind of coral and I have with my lighting setup....what HOB skimmer would you suggest? I need something silent if possible as the tank is in my bedroom.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> So I should of left the two dead fish in the tank?? I have a RO/di system already at my house....
> So what kind of coral and I have with my lighting setup....what HOB skimmer would you suggest? I need something silent if possible as the tank is in my bedroom.


No, you should have used a shrimp, now that you have nitrates to "feed" on you are fine... i dunno for a skimmer, i used an aqua c remora once and liked it for a smaller skimmer... STAY AWAY FROM SEA-CLONE skimmers PITA

Just wait, nismo will jump in soon and give bomb advice for a smaller tank, his nano is sweeet!


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

So im going to order either 2 #2 or 2 #3 hydors? Which ones would be better for my tank??


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

Skunkbudfour20 said:


> So I should of left the two dead fish in the tank?? I have a RO/di system already at my house....
> So what kind of coral and I have with my lighting setup....what HOB skimmer would you suggest? I need something silent if possible as the tank is in my bedroom.


No, you should have used a shrimp, now that you have nitrates to "feed" on you are fine... i dunno for a skimmer, i used an aqua c remora once and liked it for a smaller skimmer... STAY AWAY FROM SEA-CLONE skimmers PITA

*Just wait, nismo will jump in soon and give bomb advice for a smaller tank, his nano is sweeet!*
[/quote]

I agree, it's sick lol
And Nismo will certainly jump in, I know he's helped me out a ton of times with my SW issues.

I ran a 23g long with 2x Koralia #2's and it worked well. You want to give your LR enough waterflow to give proper filteration. Also remember that powerhead(s) stregnth and placement is in direct relationship with coral types and placement of them as well. With SPS..higher flow is essential. But if this is your first nano and your still getting started I wouldn't recommend any SPS just yet. 
If you find the Koralia's produce too much flow you can try the Maxi-jet 400 or 600's.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Are there any crabs, shrimp, or starfish I can put in there now or do i still need to wait till the tank is cycled?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> Are there any crabs, shrimp, or starfish I can put in there now or do i still need to wait till the tank is cycled?


You could put some snails and hermits in... but keep in mind they need food so you will need algae and maybe an occasional small feeding of flakes or something for the hermits... Also remember that the cone shaped snails like Astraea snails cant wright themselves if they are on their side (if they fall off the glass or whatever) especially in the sand, so keep a watch for that because they will die, or be killed by your hermit crabs... personally i think my hermits are asses, and really do more damage to my snail supply than help so you prob only want 2 or 3 max...

you prob want to stay away from most starfish, unless they are serpent starfish, most others arent reef safe, or will die from lack of food... but def wait till after fish to add those


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## nataz (Mar 31, 2006)

Take a look at the Coralife Super Skimmer Needle Wheel 65. I used one on my 20 high nano and it worked pretty good. If you don't want to look at the pump in your tank and you have a extra aqua clear sitting around you can put the pump in it. Also if you aqua clear is big enough you can add a little rubble but not needed.

As for the rest of your question it looks like skunkbudfour20 has done a great jobs. Also the aqua c remora's are (very good) skimmers.

Check for reef clubs in your area, theres always someone upgrading or getting out of the hobby that usually (not always) but usually helps out someone new to the hobby.

What kind of rock is in the middle? Looks like lace rock (what its called in lfs here) and not LR.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

you guys covered alot in this thread fast. so far everyone is pretty much putting you in the right direction. Just be patient and let the tank work its self out for a few weeks. its like watching grass grow but if you have decent live rock and stare at it long enough you will see wierd stuff growing off it or crawling around. personally i think small tanks are less about fish and more about corals and other odds and ends like hermits and shrimp they can be just as entertaining. but like skunk said these things need food and with the tank barely being established there isnt much for them and trying to feed them will foul up your water more then its worth. shrimp are a bit more senstaive to water conditions so you should hold off on them.

i would go with 2 hydor 2's as suggested, they will move alot of water but it wont be high velocity so you shouldnt have any problems.

skimmers make noise, not much you can do to get around that, when you have to move a lot of water injected with air. you could try to run it on a timer but they work best if they are running 24/7.

BTW that looks like a blue/green chromis and a very unhappy one.

if you really want fish look at the rainfords goby or courtjester goby, very cool little fish but they do carpet surf if they get started. that is one of the draw backs to the 20 long its small and shallow so fish will be more likely to go kamakazi. if you are going to get clowns stick with the percula/false perculas they stay smaller and are least aggresive. sixline wrasse is another possiblity but they too can jump and really should be in larger tank even though they are small fish.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Wow this thread has been great for me so far...so today I woke up to some brown sh*t covering some of my live rock?? Whats up with that. I have my lights on for 10hours. Can I keep them on longer?? My damsal is looking much better....that was honestly the most pitiful pic I could have taken. When should I do my first water change?? And I was thinking about 5 gallons???


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

SeedlessOne said:


> Wow this thread has been great for me so far...so today I woke up to some brown sh*t covering some of my live rock?? Whats up with that. I have my lights on for 10hours. Can I keep them on longer?? My damsal is looking much better....that was honestly the most pitiful pic I could have taken. When should I do my first water change?? And I was thinking about 5 gallons???


i would hold off on the water change until you are no longer get nitrites when you test then 5 gallons would be good but as the tank matures you should do smaller 2-3 gallon change so its less of a change to your parameters at once. the tank is 20 but once you work out the volume taken away by the rock sand ect its probably more like 15, which make a 5 gallon change 30% you would be better off doing mroe frequent 10% changes.

the brown stuff is diatoms. normal stage in a new tank it will go away, then you will likely see some green algae then if your water is good you will see coraline algae (purple spots) its not always noticable when it spreads on live rock that already has coraline but usually it shows up on the plastic filter parts first or on the glass.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Yeah I thought they were diatoms....well I have 1lb LR in my basket of my ac70. The filter was on a old FW on mine and might have gotten some sand sucked up. So its too loud for my room. What would be my best bet for filtration? I wanna go ahead and get whast best for my needs. But I need something as quite as possible. Thanks

oh yeah....have I mentioned how much I love SW so far!!!


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Nice tank, the only thing Im running for filtration on my 10 is a HOB refugium powered by a mini pump, the whole thing is virtually silent, and I only do about 2 gallon water change every two weeks.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Yeah Ive looked at yours. Where did you buy it?? Anyway I can see a few more pics of it?? Still not 100% how everything works.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> Yeah Ive looked at yours. Where did you buy it?? Anyway I can see a few more pics of it?? Still not 100% how everything works.


The powerhead pushes water into the fuge, and it drains back into the tank.... pretty simple, and efficient design if you can handle looking at the powerhead and return (hide them with rocks) you could also do a sump just as simple and hide all that crap out of view, you just need a bigger pump and an overflow box... but then you might as well upgrade the size of the tank and use your tank for a sump... see why this hobby is sooo addicting and expensive?









Oh and the brown stuff is prob diatoms, your first algae bloom which is a sign things are moving along


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Ok I took my water parms today. My ammonia, nitrate, and nitrites are all on the bottom of the chart?? I know my tank isnt cylced yet. Why am I getting these low levels?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> Ok I took my water parms today. My ammonia, nitrate, and nitrites are all on the bottom of the chart?? I know my tank isnt cylced yet. Why am I getting these low levels?


Most likely the algae is "eating" it? Its still there, just being consumed faster than it can build up... after you have a bloom, or 2 things should balance out


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

I found a new small LFS that rocks. The owner is super nice. She has 3 coral tanks and offers LR at 6.99LB. A clownfish was only 20bucks. Well she had some zoas that I couldnt pass up. She sells rock with 15-20 heads for only 12.99. I got a super nice peice for really cheap....


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> I found a new small LFS that rocks. The owner is super nice. She has 3 coral tanks and offers LR at 6.99LB. A clownfish was only 20bucks. Well she had some zoas that I couldnt pass up. She sells rock with 15-20 heads for only 12.99. I got a super nice peice for really cheap....


Sweet, you do know that zoas are highly poisonous and should be handled with extreme care right? I was just reading on fragging a rock with 100+ heads into smaller colonies so they would spread... i came across this:



> Neurotoxin Warning:
> 
> All species of Palythoa, and most related zoanthids including the Protopalythoa species, produce a chemical called PALYTOXIN in their mucus and gonads. Indigenous Pacific tribes used this neuromuscular agent to tip spears in order to paralyze prey animals and enemies. This is a potent toxin and can be deadly to humans. It is important to wear hand protection when touching these animals, especially if the handler has any breaks in his or her skin.


And several other stories of people being poisoned.... Best believe i wore gloves, and safety glasses


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Yeah I read about a guys dog that died b/c of them. Crazy stuff. I didnt have any gloves but I washed the hell out of my hands. Ill have to post a pic when they all open up. How long does that normally take? They have been in the tank for 3 hours so far. About half are open.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

SeedlessOne said:


> Well this is my first SW setup. I have an ac70 for filtration with just the sponge. I'm using a 36" nova SLR. What would be a good power head for my tank?? I plan to get some rubble this week to stick in the filter. So whats next?? Are there any suggestions on making my aquascape to look better? When can I put some fish in it? And I need some suggestions for fish. I bought 3 damsels and only one is left. I'm not to sure of the quality of fish from my LFS. I plan to find another source for SW stuff.


Those are Green Chromis. Don't bother. They will kill each other in a tank your size.

Looks like you are getting some good advice! I would go with two Koralia 2's in a 20L.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Here is a pic of the zoas I picked up. What is the little thing in the 2nd pic??


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

I think thats a small manjo anemone but i would need a better picture... they are related to aptasia, and i would HIGHLY recommend nuking it now or keeping a close eye on it until it spreads or gets bigger... I got into a battle with aptasia in my 55 gallon, and i have a friend who "liked the little anemones" despite many warnings i gave, and they took over EVERYTHING... his tank looks like its covered in 2" brown shag carpet







It could also be a wee BTA (bubble tip anemone) but only time will tell... get some Joes Juice on hand so you can kill it if you need to (and dont try to cut or pull it off!) beings its sooo close to the zoas, you cant use my preferred method... blow torch until it explodes

Cool zoas btw!


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

yeah I was hoping it was a BTA. Ill try to take another pic.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

LOL what is this one??

the other pic was for sure a majone. Its now gone. But this other little one doesnt look like a majone at all.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

aptasia nuke it


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks nismo...I nuked it.
BTW what kinda of Nissan do you drive?? I have a 240sx with a sr20 as a little toy.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

SeedlessOne said:


> Thanks nismo...I nuked it.
> BTW what kinda of Nissan do you drive?? I have a 240sx with a sr20 as a little toy.


used to drive a 97 altima with a few mild mods, the ka24de is a solid engine better then most stock 4 bangers but pushed beyond its design has flaws, i thought about doing an sr20 swap but after 179k hard miles the car was beat. now i have an 03 acura cl and a 86 bmw 325e 4 door and 325es 2 door


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Updates? how are things going?


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Everything is going great so far. Ive got a pair of o. clowns, six line wrasse, and a goby. Some polps, zoas, mushroom and some ricordia. Also just picked up a nice GBTA. I will post a pic in a few.....


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> Everything is going great so far. Ive got a pair of o. clowns, six line wrasse, and a goby. Some polps, zoas, mushroom and some ricordia. Also just picked up a nice GBTA. I will post a pic in a few.....


Awesome... how are your water params doing?


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Water parms are looking right on point. I test the water along with having my LFS test when I go in there.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

SeedlessOne said:


> Water parms are looking right on point. I test the water along with having my LFS test when I go in there.


Define "right on point"







or fill in the blanks?

Nitrate:
Nitrite :
PH:
Ammonia:
Salinity:
Calcium:
DkH:
Magnesium:
Others?


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## wally43 (Feb 23, 2007)

looking nice post up some more pix i wanna see full tank shots, for filters a sump would be nice maybe a little 10g would work u could grow out some macro algea in there or put a skimmer or whatever look into it, and read as much as u can i read up for 6 months before i set up me tank so read read read, this is a awesome hobby but make sure u have money haha good luck
wally


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

things are looking good

post up some updated shots.

added anything new?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Anything new man? Havent seen any updates in quite some time! How are things holding out?


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