# Signs of Death



## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

My 9" brandtii is not doing so well. I am not sure what has happened to him but I did a water change a day ago and now today I week him doing 360's Not swimming upright, on the side and was swimming upside down. He still has a lot of power in him. He is not swimming really more like a struggle to cling onto life. I am checking parameters now but I have school to go in 30mins. He was swimming upside down than I turned off the lights thinking he was being blinded (i aluminum foiled the lights a lot so must not be it). Anyway, he surfaced to the top as a dead brandtii and as soon as he touched the surface he banged the hood so hard it bounced a centimeter in the air. I really don't want a death, especially to my biggest P


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## tecknik (Jul 18, 2003)

What are the readings on your water parameters? If he was ok before the water change then I would think it has to do with newly added water. How much of a water change did you do? Beside him doing 360's, is there any visible bodily injury (cloudy eye)? Did you add amquel or water conditioner after the water change? Do you know if your city or county recently added anything to your tap water? The reason why I ask is because my county recently added chloramine to the water and sent notices that it can be bad for aquarium fish.


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

The water parameters took a nosedive. The pH dropped to 6.0-6.2. It's a little higher in my 55g where I divided it up and put the brandtii in. Instantly the brandtii is swimming a lot better in its small space but it has not touched its food. I didn't add any conditioner. I never do, I always do a 20-25% change every week. I will get some meds and more test kits after my midterms. God this screwed me over. Fish sick and didn't finish studying for midterms or homework due..... When I moved the brandtii, he was too big for my net so I grabbed a bucket, my speed bag gloves and a acrylic glass divider and pushed him in. NO RESISTANCE WHATSOEVER! Not a good sign. My brandtii usually would fight like crazy but I scooped him in... Be back in 6hours


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## MStiers (Mar 21, 2003)

What have you fed him lately? Did you use any cleaning supplies around the tank, or did any siphones, buckets etc come in contact with cleaning products? Sounds like it may even be something to do with its swim bladder. I have seen this in goldfish, koi and even some larger characins. :sad:

I typed my response before I saw your post above. Hope things get better from him.


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

The problem is I feed my brandtii only about twice a week because he eats about 2 goldfish in 1 sitting than won't eat for a while than another 1-2 in another. He hasn't had much to eat in about 3-4 days since food is low which I thought is the main problem. He does not eat pellets like all my others do so I can't always feed him whenever he wants. I have 2 feeder tanks emptied because of the pygo shoal. My piraya also doesn't like to eat pellets but my super has learned to. That is why I feed feeders to my pygo shoal quite often. Last time I fed pellets daily, my piraya ate my stuffed rbp. I think the lack of food + the parameter drop has given this brandtii a hard time. I don't deliberately starve my brandtii or other p's. Big food for brandtii is hard to come by since I don't drive which I should be.. Imma run a few miles to the supermarket and pick up some fish or hopefully snag a ride and get some more pH fixers


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

dead :sad:


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

:sad: sorry to hear that, boxer
















Brandtii


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## tecknik (Jul 18, 2003)

Oh man.... :sad:


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

I have decided to cut back on raising more piranha and concentrate on giving the best lives for the piranha that I own. I think this may be a longterm/permanent idea of having the same grow(unless I get a huge tank for more pygos). I have been working and going to school and neglecting the smaller tanks of syphoning all the poop and left over residue. I have been maintaing my prized pygo shoal and I have examined what happened to the brandtii. I believe it was a big case of ammonia burns. I didn't realize this at 1st because the light was darkened in the tank and the color of the brandtii threw me off. This is no excuse for my fault that it had died. I definately learned from this experience since that's big money down the drain.


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## crownfire (Nov 25, 2003)

Damn....Sorry for the loss.


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## Red Eyes (Nov 25, 2003)

Sorry to hear!!!


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## MStiers (Mar 21, 2003)

:sad: I am sorry to hear this.


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

You never used conditioner? that's what probably killed it, chlorine and chloramine which are available in every tap water eliminates beneficial bacteria and acts as toxic for your p's. Ps won't die from it at once, but with time they will eventually do as there are some p's who are hardier than others, and you branditii might've been more sensitive one.

I am really sorry for your loss boxer, a 9" branditii that's a rare size/find and I bet must've cost a lot. But why didn't you use $3 conditioner to condition you water with water changes. It might've saved that braditii


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

When I 1st came to this site, I was informed that water conditioner was a benefit not a necessity. I was broke at the time and I had done many water changes without any deaths. I came to conclusion that I didn't need it. Over time, this is my 1st non-fry piranha to die of water conditions. I am now considering a big upgrade on products for water maintaining. Double the biological filtration on most the tanks and new meds, testing products etc soon. What would I do if my piraya died!?


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

I use a product called chlorOUT that removes both chloromine and chlor, it costs $2 and last for 1 month and I have 6 tanks running!!

Definitely start conditioning your water before other p's start to die









And now and then I would add stress coat as a treat, once a month; stress coat helps coats the p's with a protective slime and does other stuff.


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

Tonight I begin my investigation on the death of the brandtii. I spent $40 in kits and meds and fixers. I'll test the water conditions in my 4 tanks and see the differences compare the time etc.


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## MStiers (Mar 21, 2003)

boxer said:


> Tonight I begin my investigation on the death of the brandtii. I spent $40 in kits and meds and fixers. I'll test the water conditions in my 4 tanks and see the differences compare the time etc.


 Keep us updated, I'm interested in seeing what you find.


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

i tested pH nitrate and nitrite

i forgot which was which for the No2 and No3

pH 6.2
NO2 8
NO3 0

im not at home right now.

one of the two NO2 or NO3 is only in decimals so its easier to differentiate.

what does this mean? my tank has been cycles for months now. i believe the ammonia was due to a fish fin my brandtii left in the tank. i syphoned all the left overs and am bout to add pH neutralizer/water conditioner etc. imma check all the other tanks at 11am


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

Alright I am home, earlier today I tested the water parameters and the results were
Nitrite = 0/3.3
Nitrate = 7-8/110
pH 6.2

the ending numbers on the nitrite and nitrate are the scale it goes up to.
Since this is an established tank and I know I had my spilo in there a few months before the brandtii, I don't understand why the brandtii actually died. Is 7-8 nitrate high? The scale gives it out of 110 so I think its pretty low. Nitrate causes stress and lowers pH and low pH causes stress too. Did my brandtii die of stress? I truely doubt it. I will try to take pictures of the preserved fish but I dried/froze it so the coloration and the look may be different. Can someone come to conclusion or know any other factors that might have caused the fish's death?

edit:
just tested my 55gallon.
exact same parameters since both tanks are established same time and have been getting same water source. i changed the filter cartridges on the 55g and neutralized/conditioned both tanks pH


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

the pictures have been loaded here:

brandtii death :\


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)




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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

if you dojnt condition your water and your fish dont die then i think your fish would have been fine cause clorine would have killed your fish fast

sorry man


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## You (Sep 22, 2003)

damn man that really sucks ass sorry to hear bro


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## mantis (May 16, 2003)

that's a kick in the pants.

tough loss man :sad:

r.i.p


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## EHUDI7 (Sep 7, 2003)

sorry man


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## 360 (Dec 3, 2003)




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