# all my ps dead



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

i put my ps in the 120 last night i had used all the water from my 55 gallon and 25 % from my 29 and my other 55...when i filled it up i waited for about 2 hrs and the put them in there...woke up all my ps dead that is 8 piranhas dead but the jack dempsey still swimming around..i check water perimiters...they are all perfect.....anyone know what happend


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Did you let the new tank cycle. What are you exact water parameters?


----------



## rday (Mar 10, 2003)

whenever i move fish from one tank to another i put them in a bag and do the whole acclimation thing. once i moved 4 or 5 baby p's from a 20 to my 55 and i didnt acclimate and two died from the shock of moving or the temp difference or something... since then i always bag em.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

sorry to hear, that sucks









could be the temp change - if your water wasn't contaminated w/ something.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

That is shitty man. I have moved my p's to new tanks numerious times and never once had any problems. I have no idea what could have happened. I have seeded new tanks with just water and the mature filters and never had to cycle the new tank. Did you use conditioner on the new water you added?


----------



## JesseD (Mar 26, 2003)

that sucks man.

the only thing i can think of is shock.


----------



## Heartless-Dealer (Aug 3, 2003)

yea probobly shock :sad:


----------



## Nethius (Feb 23, 2003)

wheer was the gravel from? possibly something inthat?!? sorry to hear your loss... i hope it never happens to me!


----------



## Honda99_300ex (Apr 18, 2003)

I'm really sorry man, that just Sucks


----------



## phishin06 (Jun 11, 2003)

i am sorry to hear that bro....


----------



## swttalker33 (Jun 7, 2003)

wow that sux.... sorry man


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

i had put new sand in there which i had cleaned and i had the filter from my 55 on it just because it was already cycled also...the temps were both at 82 according to the themometers...i had put a new ornament in it which was a huge roman pillars thing...wonder if that had something on it...but my question is...why is the jack still living if all the ps died? and i watched em for about 2 hrs and they were swimming around just fine..and right before i went to sleep i threw some trout in there and they started eating it but wonder if it was the trout?


----------



## bigb1 (Jul 8, 2003)

Sorry man.
Sounds like you did everything I would have done. I can't understand what happened!!


----------



## eatfish (Jul 30, 2003)

mtx1 said:


> i had put new sand in there which i had cleaned and i had the filter from my 55 on it just because it was already cycled also...the temps were both at 82 according to the themometers...i had put a new ornament in it which was a huge roman pillars thing...wonder if that had something on it...but my question is...why is the jack still living if all the ps died? and i watched em for about 2 hrs and they were swimming around just fine..and right before i went to sleep i threw some trout in there and they started eating it but wonder if it was the trout?


 JD's are very hardy fish, they can live in just about any conditions.


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

what do u guys think i should do to find out what the problem was i have 5 caribe comin in next week and dont wanna put em in that tank


----------



## eatfish (Jul 30, 2003)

take a water sample to and expirienced employee at the lfs, thats what i did when my tiger shovelnose died, I found out my water had acumulated mecury.
good luck


----------



## soulfly (Aug 7, 2003)

so you only have 1 filter from the 55 on the 120.and new substrate.the tank is going to cycle.but it wont take as long since you are using an established filter.transferring the water kept the same water parameters but you only have a minimal ammount of bacteria in the 120 right now which is all in the filter.


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

I doubt it is shock, I doubt it is anything to do with cycling, the most likely thing is that you had something in the tank like soap or something - did you clean out the tank before use?

I would suggest you move all remaining fish from the tank and place them in another tank ASAP and re-start with the problem tank, empty it out, and rinse everything in warm water, set it up and cycle it fully befor adding any new fish (and even then try a few neons or something)

I'm sorry to hear of your loss


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

mtx1 said:


> what do u guys think i should do to find out what the problem was i have 5 caribe comin in next week and dont wanna put em in that tank


 dont add them to that tank, I suggest whenever you have any deaths in any tank you do not add any new fish for 2 months.

now this is even more important with important/expensive fish and also if you lose 8 in 1 night, please do not ass the caribe to this tank next week.


----------



## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

Was it a new tank or used?
I've had a fish die like that from the wrong silicone being used to repair a corner joint.


----------



## Caesar3283 (Jun 18, 2003)

Damn, you lost 8 fish. I would be pissed







. I would empty the tank completely, get some of that tank cleaner from a pet store, clean the tank as well as possible, and start again from there adding gravel, decor, etc.....I guess now you have a 120g you can put anything you want in, that's sort of a positive thing, right? Good luck.


----------



## jasert39 (May 1, 2003)

Maybe the jack poisoned them...

It really sucks that you lost all of those p's


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear that, man :sad:


----------



## Hehehe I just (Jul 13, 2003)

sorry to hear it







, you think the dempsey killed 'em?


----------



## Tommy V (Jul 18, 2003)

sorry to hear that mtx, how big were the Ps compared to the JD?


----------



## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

This sucks man.....Sorry to hear.....








Always put small fishes (like guppies) to test your tank for a day or two.


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

nahh jack was alot smaller i was hoping he would get eaten but he is too tough they were all about 5"


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

i will put the caribe in the 55 i already have established and then add some neons but first ima clean the tank all out with warm water..i bet it was the ornament...i did clean the tank but not the ornament HOW STUPID







i hate myself for whatever i did cuz 2 of the reds i raised myself from .5" in not sure what ima do..i think after i clean it ima try some goldfish in it...if they live then surely my ps will but i wont add my ps for a month just to be safe and make sure it cycles. i called the lfs and asked if they could test the water and they said only amonia ph and nitrates my ammonia is at 0 my nitrates is at 5.0 and the ph at 7.0 i left the jack in there just to try it out..he is still doing fine...ima go clean the tank i will be back on later...i went to the lfs today and told the guy what happend he is a good friend of mine and these fish only 2 i bought from him the rest i bought from other places and he said he was gonna give me 4 rbp babies just to help me get started but i dont think ima take him up on the offer cuz i got the 10 gallon i had them in filled with blue gill now heh...i was raising the blues to feed my ps


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

there is a blue tint to their skin...is that a chemical or cuz they are dead?


----------



## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

sorry to hear that ....sucks losing fish especially when you grown them yourself..


----------



## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

mtx1 said:


> there is a blue tint to their skin...is that a chemical or cuz they are dead?


 Blue tint??







I have no idea what went wrong. You say you've mixed different waters from different tanks to speed up the cycling process. Adding water from one tank to another and then mixing them up together might play a roll in chemistry imbalance. After you did this mix, how long after did you put your Ps in?? I seriously dont think your ornament played a major roll in their death except mess up PH. Sorry about your loss man


----------



## airtorey15 (Jun 15, 2003)

i have never heard of em turning blue, you should look into it and do some research....probly on this p-fury!







So sorry bout the loss.


----------



## v4p0r (Aug 14, 2003)

Sorry for your loss


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

mtx1 said:


> i called the lfs and asked if they could test the water


 you dont mean to say you dont have test kits?
















seriously dude - you have 2 huge tanks, and one is just being set up, what are you thinking?


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

i cleaned the tank out with the garden hose..u guys think that may have been it?


----------



## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your loss man. That really sucks.


----------



## Tommy V (Jul 18, 2003)

i dont think the garden hose has anything to do with it, thats how i filled up my 55 and refill it during water changes and my fish are fine, well besides that my pleco died for some reson today, RIP jenna


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

I highly doubt it was the hose,

did you:
*cycle the tank?
*dechlorinate?
*have the temperiture correct?
*feed lots?
*scare the fish excessively?
*use any products on the tank or around the tank?
*do you have a scented air freshner near the tank or anything else like that?
*what condition was the tank in before it was used?
*how long had it been set up?
*what were the conditions in the old tank?
*Have their been any signs of desiese or funny behaviour in the recent past from the fish
*how were they getting on in the new tank?
*what is your nitrite reading?

also you had a nitrate reading of 5:0 but you just added these fish that day to a new tank - hows that?


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> mtx1 Posted on Aug 22 2003, 04:06 AM
> i cleaned the tank out with the garden hose..u guys think that may have been it?
> right before i went to sleep i threw some trout in there and they started eating it but wonder if it was the trout?


I waited replying to this post in hopes of gathering more information than what was followed up with.

1) Blue tint is NOT reference to water or any such thing. I believe he is referencing the Bluegill, a native fish.

2) The trout has me a bit concerned. Was this fresh trout or frozen? if Frozen, how long?

Lastly, my next question would be was there an odor before feeding trout? and after the discovery?

The information so far given is pretty thin to make any assessment.


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

my piranhas are the ones with the blue tint...its only in certain light...maybe because the are frozen i dunno
the trout is about 10" and it was just the meat and skin they were all connected i took the guts out before i froze...it has been frozen for about 2 months now


----------



## Hehehe I just (Jul 13, 2003)

something is definately wronf with yor tank


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

> QUOTE (mtx1 @ Aug 21 2003, 05:31 PM)
> i called the lfs and asked if they could test the water
> 
> you dont mean to say you dont have test kits?
> ...


of course i have test kits..read above eatfish said he had his tested and there was mercury in his water and thats what i called them for to see if they could test for any chemicals in the water =) the ammonia, ph, and nitrates were all good like i had posted above


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

mtx1 said:


> > QUOTE (mtx1 @ Aug 21 2003, 05:31 PM)
> > i called the lfs and asked if they could test the water
> >
> > you dont mean to say you dont have test kits?
> ...


 well what were the results from your test kits then?

and good to hear that you have some


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

> i will put the caribe in the 55 i already have established and then add some neons but first ima clean the tank all out with warm water..i bet it was the ornament...i did clean the tank but not the ornament HOW STUPID i hate myself for whatever i did cuz 2 of the reds i raised myself from .5" in not sure what ima do..i think after i clean it ima try some goldfish in it...if they live then surely my ps will but i wont add my ps for a month just to be safe and make sure it cycles. i called the lfs and asked if they could test the water and they said only amonia ph and nitrates my ammonia is at 0 my nitrates is at 5.0 and the ph at 7.0 i left the jack in there just to try it out..he is still doing fine...ima go clean the tank i will be back on later...i went to the lfs today and told the guy what happend he is a good friend of mine and these fish only 2 i bought from him the rest i bought from other places and he said he was gonna give me 4 rbp babies just to help me get started but i dont think ima take him up on the offer cuz i got the 10 gallon i had them in filled with blue gill now heh...i was raising the blues to feed my ps


already posted :smile:


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

in that post you say that is the readings the LFS took, I was meaning the ones you took yourself, and the nitrite reading, also if you want people to work out what went wrong please go throught the list I posted before - I didn't post that for fun


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

no sorry that was kinda weird wording i said those were my readings i called them to ask if they could check more than what i could... here is the answers to your questions

*cycle the tank?no but i added about 75 gallons of water from cycled tanks and added the filter from my 55 gal that had been cycled..waiting for my xp3 to come in next week
*dechlorinate?yes
*have the temperiture correct?yes 82 on both
*feed lots?no 
*scare the fish excessively?no not at all
*use any products on the tank or around the tank?none that i have used...
*do you have a scented air freshner near the tank or anything else like that?no
*what condition was the tank in before it was used?it was brand new on display at a lfs
*how long had it been set up?for about 4 hrs before i put my fish in
*what were the conditions in the old tank?4 were in a 55 gallon 2 were from a 29 and 2 were from lfs
*Have their been any signs of desiese or funny behaviour in the recent past from the fish no not at all
*how were they getting on in the new tank?great swimming everywhere
*what is your nitrite reading? 5.0


----------



## khuzhong (Apr 11, 2003)

damn.. sucks big time man.. really sucks... hopefully you find out whats wrong.


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

you sure your nitrate and nitrite readings were both 5:0?

I suggest that the most likely cause of death is the sudden change in water conditions causing stress, your tank is uncycled and should not have had fish added for at least 2 weeks, and most likely more, as a result of not cycling your tank you already have noticable nitrate and nitrite readings.

you added fish from seperate sources, the ones from the LFS may have been carrying some desiese, and you will have cross contaminated 3 tanks worth of desiese and bacteria by mixing fish from 3 tanks.

I dont know if your gravel was new either, if not then it will not have helped with the cycling process.

as for the fish from the shop - well new fish often are in bad shape from being moved from tank to tank, and also shipping to the LFS so these might have already be stressed.

now it is unusual for this kind of thing to happen, 8 fish is a lot to lose in 1 night, and although you didn't do things as reccomended this is a worse situation than anyone could have predicted, I also believe the addition of trout is also a bit of a possible factor, I think it is a number of seperate things that have built up to cause this reaction.

but much more to the point is not what happend, but what to do now, I really suggest you remove all surviving fish and place them in a quarentine tank away from all other fish, and empty the tank, rinse it down, fill it up, and cycle it properly before adding any more expensive or valuable fish


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Oh, and dont add loads of fish at once to a newly cycled tank at it will be too much for the tank to handle


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

done..i cleaned it all out today with warm water got some blue gills cycling it for me now and as for gravel being used it was about 2 5 gallon buckets of cycled sand i put in the tank also from the 55 gallon i sold....could a small trace of soap do it? my stepdad helped me carry it in and he had been washing dishes...he said he cleaned his hands but who knows...he was helping me get the blue confetti out of it..i have done all but my first 55 gallons like this and all my fish have lived before... so i am not convinced it was the cycle process i have read how alot of others on here have done it and got away with it


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

> Oh, and dont add loads of fish at once to a newly cycled tank at it will be too much for the tank to handle


how often and how many? like how often between new fish?


----------



## TheFishCatcher (Jun 26, 2003)

i want to send u some fish to make up for your loss one's i will give a 30 percent discount on your order, let me know if your interested.

very sorry for your loss
ASH


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> the trout is about 10" and it was just the meat and skin they were all connected i took the guts out before i froze...*it has been frozen for about 2 months now*


Ok, that's what I figured. I suspect the bag holding the trout might have suffered freezer burn, a toxin (in my experience) to piranas. Frozen fish is relatively safe, however, Trout and certain native fish produce something I have not been able to identify which renders them dangerous to piranas. Sorry I cannot give you any more info than that. Just a caution to anyone else. Always feed fresh.


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

mtx1 said:


> > Oh, and dont add loads of fish at once to a newly cycled tank at it will be too much for the tank to handle
> 
> 
> how often and how many? like how often between new fish?


 I suggest you do cycle and forget those who didnt and were OK - they cannot truly tell the damage it causes (shortend life span, damaged gills, etc) after all did you ever hear of anyone who knows what they are doing add a really expensive fish to an uncycled tank?









as for adding fish, just dont add many at a time, if you are using small fish then you can add more than large fish, but dont add all the fish you are going to keep all at once as it is too much for the bacteria to cope with, with piranhas this causes problems as you should add all your piranhas at once for best results - who said this was easy - lol


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

LOL i know i know and i was beginning to think it was easy until this morning!!!!! the fish i will be adding are 5" caribe how many u think i should add at a time? i wont be adding them for a month...ima wait til we move before i add them.

and hastatus i catch trout quite a bit but how long is it good...is it good say a week and after a week i can grill it up and eat it myself? or is it good for longer than that....or...should i just feed it to them right when i get the fish and if i dont just grill them for myself? i dont want to risk anything EVER again like this







i couldnt stop thinking about my fish all day long


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> mtx1 Posted on Aug 22 2003, 05:36 AM
> 
> i catch trout quite a bit but how long is it good...is it good say a week and after a week i can grill it up and eat it myself? or is it good for longer than that....or...should i just feed it to them right when i get the fish and if i dont just grill them for myself? i dont want to risk anything EVER again like this i couldnt stop thinking about my fish all day long


I would feed trout either immediately or not at all. I have never had good experience with trout frozen more than a day or two. But if you must, be sure the flesh is thorougly unfrozen and watch for any taltale ordours that might not be natural smelling. Being a fisherman myself, I think you know what I mean.


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

dont eat the dead fish - they died of unknown causes









and I suggest you add all of your caribe together, but you wait a month or even better 2 months first, and have some other fish in the tank in the mean time, such as tetras, goldfish, danios or some other cheap fish, or even better do a fishless cycle, and then add the cheap fish for a couple of weeks.

also try to add a couple more fish every few days.


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

i dont plan on eating my piranhas only the trout haha...and i will just do away with feeding them trout...is there any exception to the trout if they are live and swimming in the tank? or will they not live in 80-82 degree temps?


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

you want to keep a trout in your tank?









ummm I'm not too sure - ask in the non-piranha forum and I will look it up tommorrow for you


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> mtx1 Posted on Aug 22 2003, 05:43 AM
> is there any exception to the trout if they are live and swimming in the tank? or will they not live in 80-82 degree temps?


Trout are coldwater fish. Best kept in chilled water (72F and below), the temp you suggest would cause massive die off in nature. When I fish for trout, I give just a portion of it to them as a treat (no fins or guts), preferably fresh. For live, I keep bluegill or smallmouth bass isolated for a week or more before feeding in case of parasites.


----------



## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

sorry for your loss







but try, try again


----------



## dr7leaf (Nov 26, 2002)

i couldnt even imagine losing all my P's in one night...








i would be devestated..







sorry for your loss

im almost scared to get my new 125 gallon next week


----------



## mtx1 (May 21, 2003)

just learn from my mistake i have been down the whole day and couldnt stop thinking about itbut there have been alot of ppl helping me out in ways i never could have imagined this place rocks


----------



## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

new filter media or not cycled?
what about chlorine? or maybe you pur to much chemical in there


----------



## Hehehe I just (Jul 13, 2003)

did you say you let the water cycle?


----------



## prdemon (Aug 1, 2003)

you fed them the same night ,you moved them into a new tank,that may have been the mistake ,an "uncycled" tank even though you took everything out of an established tank doesnt mean the tank is "cycled " you loose bacteria whenever you move anything "out"of an established tank,a major amonia spike could have occured when you fed them ,and bam,but the funny part is in the morning it doesnt look like ammonia ,because the tank cycled it out ,nitrobacteria, well you know,ive had this happen to me twice before i caught on about ten years ago just thought id share my little two cents,


----------

