# 80G Rhom Tank Log



## Round Head

I like to share my progress of this 80 gal with you all; it is in the works with no plants yet, I am still deciding on species. Nevertheless, she is ready to be planted then the "Head of The Household" will move in.
So here are some info but I would like to thank DippyEggs for all of his time. 
He literally held my hands and feed me with exciting information.

1. 4X55W PC from AH.
2. 120lbs of flourite.
3. 20 lbs CO2 cylinder with Milwauki reg and ph monitor.
4. 20 snails.
5. 20 Glowlight tetras
6. 20 Cardinals.
7. 20 Lemons
8. AC500, Eheim 2229
9. Plant, ??? not yet.

Will update with progress.


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## Satans_LiL_Helper

Niiiiiiice


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## Winkyee

I'm sure you're going to have a great looking tank there..
HUrry up.


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## DiPpY eGgS

Ya, going to be sweet man!! can't wait to see..

The over the side filter might make your CO2 regulator go off more, which means you most likely will be using more CO2 than you need to.. But you have a 20lb cylander, it still should last a good while!

I use a powerhead with a filter attachment for more waterflow in my tank.. no big deal, should be fine


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## Round Head

As a matter of fact, I have a powerhead just for that.
It will be in to mix and distribute the CO2.

Thanks


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## Guest

Should be sweet


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## Round Head

Took my dog down to the river today and picked up this nice piece of log.
Its floating now but should be waterlogged soon.


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## DiPpY eGgS

I personally boil and wire brush all drift wood that goes into my tank.. You never know what is on it


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## Round Head

Oops.
I brushed it but didn't do the boiling.
I found it in a pile of this winter's washdown and figured our cold water should not harbor warm water "nasties".
But a hard boil wouldn't hurt either that will be tomorrow.


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## DiPpY eGgS




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## Round Head

Some more stuff to show:
1. CO2 and pH monitor
2. Fertilizers.


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## DiPpY eGgS




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## Round Head

Thanks Dippy,
As my newly acquired drift wood starting to sink, I am thinking twice about keeping it now.
Although it looks so nice, it is also taking way too much space. 
Any suggestions for landscape substitutions?
You guys think antler style branchs will look nice because I can pick up a butt load of branches anytime I want.

Thanks


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## DiPpY eGgS

Aquascaping is not an exact science..









Branches look great, logs look great, piles of rock with brances and logs...But good hardscape is some of the hardest stuff to come by.

I am just now learning how to aquascape, after learning finally how to grow nice plants..
It is a learned thing, after you start to see how plants fill in, and grow, you will get better at it in time


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## Winkyee

When adding wood to my tank I find it easy to use zip ties to hold rocks to the wood untill it goes down then remove the ties.


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## Round Head

OK, here are a couple of new river wood that I picked up.
The big piece is a keeper, but I don't know about the smaller long piece on the left. 
I might keep all the space to the left of the tree for plants.
Don't know, what you guys think?

Oh, by the way that tree is dead but still green. Is that going to be a problem? You think I am going to get fungus growth?

Thanks


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY

looking good, looking good man..keep it up the good work


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## BigChuckP

Round Head said:


> OK, here are a couple of new river wood that I picked up.
> The big piece is a keeper, but I don't know about the smaller long piece on the left.
> I might keep all the space to the left of the tree for plants.
> Don't know, what you guys think?
> 
> Oh, by the way that tree is dead but still green. Is that going to be a problem? You think I am going to get fungus growth?
> 
> Thanks


If that piece of wood is not dead it will die in your tank, and decomposing anything in your tank is bad!


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## Round Head

I finally got to borrow my sister's cam to give you guys an update of my progress.
The plants are about a week in the tank and I am still learning how to adjust for all needed parameters but thanks to Dippy, I am able to learn pretty fast.
Starting with a full tank and each plant is from left to right.
Please don't ask me for the list of names because I don't have them memorized yet.















Maybe our senior members can name them for us.
I have to say that these plants are more nerve recking than fish.

Thanks for looking


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## Guru

Round Head said:


> I finally got to borrow my sister's cam to give you guys an update of my progress.
> The plants are about a week in the tank and I am still learning how to adjust for all needed parameters but thanks to Dippy, I am able to learn pretty fast.
> Starting with a full tank and each plant is from left to right.
> Please don't ask me for the list of names because I don't have them memorized yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe our senior members can name them for us.
> I have to say that these plants are more nerve recking than fish.
> 
> Thanks for looking


Nice updated pics.
Dont be worried once you get the tank established and get the routine down a planted tank is actually easier to mantain when compared to a tank with fake plant decore. The reason I say this is because i found that back in the day when i had fake plants i would have to scrub off all the brown algee every two days. In a well established planted tank the only thing I have to worry about is trimming and feeding the plants weekely. 
The hardest part of a planted tank is figuring out how to control the algee, once you get your fertilizing down and balanced with your lighting life is much easier and less stressful.
Keep us updated and


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## Fresh2salt

your tank lookd really good


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## spoondc2

wow your tank is looking awesome now


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## DiPpY eGgS

Nice!

It will be crucial right now to keep your CO2, nitrates, and phosphates at almost max levels.. You want to keep algea at bay.

Looks great.. 
The glosso needs to be trimmed at every single node with roots, and planted with tweezers about .5" or less apart, to grow a carpet.
Also, the micro sword could use spread out a bit, and planted deeper, where you want it to carpet as well. 
(planting micro sword almost halfway..or halfway makes it look incredible)


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## Round Head

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Nice!
> 
> It will be crucial right now to keep your CO2, nitrates, and phosphates at almost max levels.. You want to keep algea at bay.
> 
> Looks great..
> The glosso needs to be trimmed at every single node with roots, and planted with tweezers about .5" or less apart, to grow a carpet.
> Also, the micro sword could use spread out a bit, and planted deeper, where you want it to carpet as well.
> (planting micro sword almost halfway..or halfway makes it look incredible)


Thank you Joe, I would never know about these things without your help.








I'll do just that this weekend.


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## DiPpY eGgS

I say keep glosso very close to the front, up to the glass, and micro sword around rocks or near the front of the midground









(depends how much you have of each i guess







)

do some algea maintenence as well, wipe the glass off, and the equipment, if there is algea on it


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## Round Head

Here is an update. Replant after receiving lots of awesome plants from Dippy.


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## DiPpY eGgS

looks great Lane..

My personal suggestions:







(take or leave)

The wood that you have looks good..but..I think you should have a lot more wood and/or rocks in there.. 
If you go with both rocks and wood, they should be close to each other.. sort of rocks below the wood in a natural looking way.

This, IMO, coupled with working on your midground would work much better. What I mean about working on your midground is....
using the plants that do not get very tall, or the plants that make nice 'bushes' in the middle of the tank, and around the hardscaping.

I notice that you have your Didiplis diandra very tall, and in the background. This plant is an excellent candidate for a great looking midground bush









to make a long story short.. what I would do:: (and you can just ignore this whole post if ya want to, a tank with plants anywhere looks good LOL)

I would plant the glosso 'tightly' (.5" apart at the most) by iteslf way up front. and E triandra the same, in another part of the very 'foreground'

I would get more wood, and/or rocks in there and make a nice off-center focal point. 
You could work your foreground plants around the focal point in a creative way if ya want to.. this provides an opportunity.
Then I would replant the micro sword closer up front, and plant it deeper(about 1" deeper--it is a foreground plant) most likely I would do this somewhere near the hardscaping, probably spreading on either side, flaring to the sides, and not going too far back. (if you dont have enough, 1 side)

then I would get that B. japonica almost touching a part of the hardscape, the grassy bush looks great near driftwood and rocks. then I would get the umbrosum, D diandra (which you could chop in half or 3rds, making a ton of nice mid-ground plantage







), and use that to hide the stem plants bottom stems in some way









Then I would try to group the aromatica stem plants together, with enough room between them to let light penetrate well between them and behind the hardscape because the bottoms don't look good on stem plants, especially big bushy ones.. you want them to poke out from behind things.
and so on,,..lol do you get what I'm saying?

aquascaping is fun for me, I loved every minute trying to create a nice look in my tanks.. mostly unsuccessfully.. lol
slowly, im getting better with it.. but not there yet lol

have fun, observe how the plants look after they grow out.. (you will be able to do much more when they grow out.. don't throw plants away yet! fill in places with them..you will see what I mean) hide half of the stem plants with lower bushes, and hardscape, and try to create an interesting low foreground is what I was trying to say the whole time.. LOL
sorry for the longwinded post!!!


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## pyrokingbrand

Your tank looks marvelous! Sounds like good advice dippy!


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## Round Head

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Your tank looks marvelous! Sounds like good advice dippy!


Thanks for your comment. With help from you guys, I will definitely be proud of this tank.
So far I got my plants to thrive from lots of help from Dippy. And not to say, that I also got lots of great plants him too.


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## Guest

Tank looks like its off to a great start!
I would cut the glosso into single roots (at the runner) and plant them...but thats just because I love glosso carpets









Good luck


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## Round Head

DannyBoy17 said:


> Tank looks like its off to a great start!
> I would cut the glosso into single roots (at the runner) and plant them...but thats just because I love glosso carpets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck


Here is a close up pic for you Danny.
I spread them out as much as I can.


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## DiPpY eGgS

> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?


I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping







But give some pointers, and let your creativity go

I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of








I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol

I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder

But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well

have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..

But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them


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## Round Head

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give some pointers, and let your creativity go
> 
> I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol
> 
> I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
> I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well
> 
> have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..
> 
> But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them
Click to expand...

Joe, you're not spoiling my experience at all. I need all the help that I can get because I never have a good eye for art and decorations. I am going to replant again next week or when I figure out a nice rockscape design. Just curious if it is OK to put coral with the plants. If so, this is a possibility because I have lots of large antler coral pieces.


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## Guru

Round Head said:


> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give some pointers, and let your creativity go
> 
> I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol
> 
> I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
> I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well
> 
> have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..
> 
> But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them
Click to expand...

Joe, you're not spoiling my experience at all. I need all the help that I can get because I never have a good eye for art and decorations. I am going to replant again next week or when I figure out a nice rockscape design. Just curious if it is OK to put coral with the plants. If so, this is a possibility because I have lots of large antler coral pieces.
[/quote]

DON'T PUT CORAL IN YOUR TANK, It will raise your ph level. When you are doing hardscpe you want to put the rocks, wood, or whatever decoration on the 4 focal points in your tank. If you dont know where the 4 focal points are, here is an article that will help you find the 4 focal points in your tank.

I hope this helps or gives you an idea for your hardscape.

http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/articles/auralproportions/


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## Round Head

Nuggs said:


> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give some pointers, and let your creativity go
> 
> I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol
> 
> I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
> I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well
> 
> have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..
> 
> But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them
Click to expand...

Joe, you're not spoiling my experience at all. I need all the help that I can get because I never have a good eye for art and decorations. I am going to replant again next week or when I figure out a nice rockscape design. Just curious if it is OK to put coral with the plants. If so, this is a possibility because I have lots of large antler coral pieces.
[/quote]

DON'T PUT CORAL IN YOUR TANK, It will raise your ph level. When you are doing hardscpe you want to put the rocks, wood, or whatever decoration on the 4 focal points in your tank. If you dont know where the 4 focal points are, here is an article that will help you find the 4 focal points in your tank.

I hope this helps or gives you an idea for your hardscape.

http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/articles/auralproportions/









[/quote]

Thank you so much brother.
That link sure helped me alot; I never knew that.
I am going think about this alot and see what I can find to make this work.
Man, thanks for the help, I really appreciate that.








Oh yeh, I belief you, no corals then.


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## Guru

Round Head said:


> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give some pointers, and let your creativity go
> 
> I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol
> 
> I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
> I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well
> 
> have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..
> 
> But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them
Click to expand...

Joe, you're not spoiling my experience at all. I need all the help that I can get because I never have a good eye for art and decorations. I am going to replant again next week or when I figure out a nice rockscape design. Just curious if it is OK to put coral with the plants. If so, this is a possibility because I have lots of large antler coral pieces.
[/quote]

DON'T PUT CORAL IN YOUR TANK, It will raise your ph level. When you are doing hardscpe you want to put the rocks, wood, or whatever decoration on the 4 focal points in your tank. If you dont know where the 4 focal points are, here is an article that will help you find the 4 focal points in your tank.

I hope this helps or gives you an idea for your hardscape.

http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/articles/auralproportions/









[/quote]

Thank you so much brother.
That link sure helped me alot; I never knew that.
I am going think about this alot and see what I can find to make this work.
Man, thanks for the help, I really appreciate that.








Oh yeh, I belief you, no corals then.
[/quote]

No problem roundhead, a good way to play around is to take a picture of your full tank and then use photshop to apply the lines that Kingvinnie uses to find the focal points. This will help you get an idea of how to plan your scape. 
A good thing to try when scaping is by creating depth. This is when you create an illusion making it seem like your tank is alot deeper then it is. 
This can usually be done by placing bigger taller plants in the back, and smaller plants in the front. This is what makes carpet plants look so magnificent when placed in the front middle of the tank, this is because when the carpet is placed in between the two bottom focal points it creates an illusion that magnifies the depth perception to the human eye.


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## Round Head

Nuggs said:


> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give some pointers, and let your creativity go
> 
> I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol
> 
> I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
> I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well
> 
> have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..
> 
> But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them
Click to expand...

Joe, you're not spoiling my experience at all. I need all the help that I can get because I never have a good eye for art and decorations. I am going to replant again next week or when I figure out a nice rockscape design. Just curious if it is OK to put coral with the plants. If so, this is a possibility because I have lots of large antler coral pieces.
[/quote]

DON'T PUT CORAL IN YOUR TANK, It will raise your ph level. When you are doing hardscpe you want to put the rocks, wood, or whatever decoration on the 4 focal points in your tank. If you dont know where the 4 focal points are, here is an article that will help you find the 4 focal points in your tank.

I hope this helps or gives you an idea for your hardscape.

http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/articles/auralproportions/









[/quote]

Thank you so much brother.
That link sure helped me alot; I never knew that.
I am going think about this alot and see what I can find to make this work.
Man, thanks for the help, I really appreciate that.








Oh yeh, I belief you, no corals then.
[/quote]

No problem roundhead, a good way to play around is to take a picture of your full tank and then use photshop to apply the lines that Kingvinnie uses to find the focal points. This will help you get an idea of how to plan your scape. 
A good thing to try when scaping is by creating depth. This is when you create an illusion making it seem like your tank is alot deeper then it is. 
This can usually be done by placing bigger taller plants in the back, and smaller plants in the front. This is what makes carpet plants look so magnificent when placed in the front middle of the tank, this is because when the carpet is placed in between the two bottom focal points it creates an illusion that magnifies the depth perception to the human eye.








[/quote]

Yep, that makes alot of sense.
The author uses petrified wood and that is one thing that I've never thought of.
But I know of a petrified wood forrest in Eastern Washington that I have to pay a visit soon.
I think a high rise of petrified wood will look very nice with a tall branchy drift wood.
My next update will definitely be different for sure.
Oh, as far as plants colors, what do you suggest the placement of red vs. green of the same height?
Its a 50/50 chance but I am guessing green toward the front and red behind.









Thanks


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## Guru

Round Head said:


> Joe,
> Your reply is taken seriously my friend. I need these types of lengthy explainations from you.
> I was so confused while replanting as you can see. There is a million things going on in my head yet it was very difficult to choose what and where to place them. Now that my collection is complete for this tank, I will do exactly as you have suggested and let them grow out fully to see their potentials. I've also been thinking alot about rocks and stuff like that but can't seem to imagine what shape and size. I am thinking more of a cone shape mountain style pieces to create a cascade ground. Maybe I'll do that by relocating the wood toward the center and have mountain cascade spreading out both sides of the wood. Or just leave the wood there and have a rock cascade starting at the wood and stretch out toward the left side. What do your recommend the height for the rocks; up to mid water column?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to completely spoil your learning process of aquascaping
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give some pointers, and let your creativity go
> 
> I am not too great with hardscaping. I will say though, with wood, the rocks look the most natural mostly buried, and the wood piled sort of on top/around it kind of
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> I made the mistake of spreading rocks out and putting wood sort of in-between the rocks in my one 75g.. the scape is sort of 'lame' -lol
> 
> I would have made more of a pile kind of, with the wood jutting out from behind it, and laying around very closeby.. but it is an individual thing.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> But I would seriously mow the didiplis diandra down, group it together, and make it a midground plant.
> I would give a tad more space in between the stem plants as well
> 
> have fun with it and enjoy!! that is the most important thing..
> 
> But seriously, if you left it like that, it would still look good, plants do that to an aquarium no matter how you plant them
Click to expand...

Joe, you're not spoiling my experience at all. I need all the help that I can get because I never have a good eye for art and decorations. I am going to replant again next week or when I figure out a nice rockscape design. Just curious if it is OK to put coral with the plants. If so, this is a possibility because I have lots of large antler coral pieces.
[/quote]

DON'T PUT CORAL IN YOUR TANK, It will raise your ph level. When you are doing hardscpe you want to put the rocks, wood, or whatever decoration on the 4 focal points in your tank. If you dont know where the 4 focal points are, here is an article that will help you find the 4 focal points in your tank.

I hope this helps or gives you an idea for your hardscape.

http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/articles/auralproportions/









[/quote]

Thank you so much brother.
That link sure helped me alot; I never knew that.
I am going think about this alot and see what I can find to make this work.
Man, thanks for the help, I really appreciate that.








Oh yeh, I belief you, no corals then.
[/quote]

No problem roundhead, a good way to play around is to take a picture of your full tank and then use photshop to apply the lines that Kingvinnie uses to find the focal points. This will help you get an idea of how to plan your scape. 
A good thing to try when scaping is by creating depth. This is when you create an illusion making it seem like your tank is alot deeper then it is. 
This can usually be done by placing bigger taller plants in the back, and smaller plants in the front. This is what makes carpet plants look so magnificent when placed in the front middle of the tank, this is because when the carpet is placed in between the two bottom focal points it creates an illusion that magnifies the depth perception to the human eye.








[/quote]

Yep, that makes alot of sense.
The author uses petrified wood and that is one thing that I've never thought of.
But I know of a petrified wood forrest in Eastern Washington that I have to pay a visit soon.
I think a high rise of petrified wood will look very nice with a tall branchy drift wood.
My next update will definitely be different for sure.
Oh, as far as plants colors, what do you suggest the placement of red vs. green of the same height?
Its a 50/50 chance but I am guessing green toward the front and red behind.









Thanks
[/quote]

Well if the plants are the same height I would use them beside each other, When using colors you want balance, you dont want one side of the tank all red or all green, you actually want to use splashes of reds or other colors to accent other plants around it so that both can be clearly seen as different species. Here's a link to what I mean read the comments from the judges of AGA aquascaping at the bottom of the page.

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004...=0&vol=2&id=112

Also if you decide to use red plants you dont want it to stick out so that it takes away from the rest of your tank.
Here is an example of what i'm talking about with the red plant taking away the focus from the rest of the tank. 
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004...=0&vol=1&id=104

Remember even with green plants, not all greens are the same color, so try out different placements to find what you like best. When scaping you want good contrast so that all the plants stickout without looking simaler,this goes for both color and shape of leaves. Here's another link where the judge explains that two simaler plants beside each other is a no-no.

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004...=0&vol=1&id=103

This will help make your entire tank look magnificent instead of one side being the focal point. The best way to figure out color is to play around with plant placements, you will find that it does look the best when the colors all contrast each other.

I hope this help you. Post some pics once eveything is up and going.


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## Round Head

I finally got full control of the algae infestation and would like to share some pics.
With lights cut down some and plants over growth, the algae had absolutely no chance.


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## Round Head

How do get the Glosso to stay low and tight?
Mine doesn't like to hug the substrate, they all want to float upward.


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## Z♠NGT♥KER

looks very nice man.......go0d joB


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## DiPpY eGgS

Round Head said:


> How do get the Glosso to stay low and tight?
> Mine doesn't like to hug the substrate, they all want to float upward.


Looks great!
I am happy to see some good growth in there, bro! You stuck it out through the tough part of the hobby, and now it will pay off with beauty for you








I would like to send you some stuff. PM me if you are interested!

Is your glosso shaded? It will need planted properly as well to grow along the substrate. Trim them and make little plantlets of about 2-3, maybe 4 leaves a piece. 
Then, plant about .5" apart, all over the area you want them to carpet. (hemostats sometimes help) 
Make sure they are in direct light. 
Hope that helps


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## smallmouth

Round Head said:


> I finally got to borrow my sister's cam to give you guys an update of my progress.
> The plants are about a week in the tank and I am still learning how to adjust for all needed parameters but thanks to Dippy, I am able to learn pretty fast.
> Starting with a full tank and each plant is from left to right.
> Please don't ask me for the list of names because I don't have them memorized yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe our senior members can name them for us.
> I have to say that these plants are more nerve recking than fish.
> 
> Thanks for looking


I agree im attempting my first planted tank myself right now.


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## Round Head

I finally got a hold of my sister's camera but unfortunately she brought over the camera with a zoom lens. Its a girl thing, what are you going to do.








So please forgive me for not getting any close up pics.









My next update will have a complete face lift with new plants and rocks.
I love the look of that log with a hollow base; I don't know yet.


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## DiPpY eGgS

Sweet, Lane!

Can you send some of the glosso if it doesn't have any algea on it? You do know that trimming it can keep it low, right? 
Planting it with the roots in the substrate helps it creep along the substrate too.

Can you get a full tank shot? List of plants in there?


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## ~Silly~Spy

wow i love the jungle/carpet look! great job man


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## QWERTY1830

wow thats amazinggggggggg its so so beautiful


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## Round Head

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Sweet, Lane!
> 
> Can you send some of the glosso if it doesn't have any algea on it? You do know that trimming it can keep it low, right?
> Planting it with the roots in the substrate helps it creep along the substrate too.
> 
> Can you get a full tank shot? List of plants in there?


Yes, I am more than happy to send you a bunch Joe.
These glossos are very clean. They grow so fast that trimming doesn't seem to stop them much but I suppose that it might work if I trim them every day.








Usually once a month, I would pull them all out, trim out the good nodes, and replant each nodes 1/4 inch apart.
I got a plan to hold them down low but haven't had a chance to execute it yet, but I will let you know if this works or not.

Joe, the first 2 pics are the best full shot from that zoom lens. But I can update the list for you later.

Talk with you later.


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## Round Head

randomhero said:


> What ever you get, please don't get a pit.


why because of there reputation??? a pitbull is probably one of the smartest dog out there right now especially with all these inbreeding dog breeders out here just tryin be in it for money not the love of the breed. i work at a vet and some of the most behavied and obedient dogs are your so called aggresive breed dogs. it's not wat kind of dog its are you willing to spend time out of your everday to train your dog???
[/quote]

Here is a list of plants:
From the left side starting from back to front: Limnophila aromatica, Heteranthera zosterfolia, Potamogenton gayi.
From middle starting from back to front: val, Alternanthera reineckii, Echinodorus horemani "Red".
The E. horemani is there but it is not growing much.
From the right side: all Hygrophila corymbosa 'Angustafolia'
Around the log are Micranthemum umbrosum
Foreground: all Glossos with some P. gayi shooting through the front.

I'm thinking about trimming down big time and possibly rid of the majority of those plants and get some newer interesting plants from Joe. Maybe keeping a little P. gayi, some Glossos, a couple stems of L. aromatica, and the E. horemani just because it is a challenge for me since the startup.


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## DiPpY eGgS

Hey Lane..
When you ship me some glosso, any chance of getting a few stems of Potamogenton gayi? You will need lots of room anyway, with all the plants I'm sending you ..lol

PS, the Limnophila sp 'mini' has an awesome smell.. every plant in my 10g smells like it now.. lol I'm not complaining.


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## thepiranhakid

awsome tank, cant wait to see the rhon in it tho


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## bob351




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## Round Head

Here is an update with totally new plants from Joe.


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## Round Head

Here is an update with totally new plants from Joe.
Sorry, my photo skills are not too good.
But at least you get an idea.








Starting from a full shot then left to right and individual plants.

Here is another full shot.


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## DiPpY eGgS

Hey, you wanted harder to grow plants, believe me, you got them!

These guys will be a tough assignment for ya!

Hey, I'm wondering if you know that having algea on the glass is a big reason for it spreading.
Not saying yours is, but a rule of thumb is, if it is established somewhere, it will reproduce. The thing you want to do is destroy it's foothold in the tank. -hope that helps.

Another point.. it seems that there are few plants in there now. The new sensitive plants you have should take some time getting used to the new conditions in your tank.. maybe have some backup plants (fast growers) to take up some slack..
Just some suggestions

Looking good, Lane!!

PS--I love that P gayi!


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## Round Head

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Hey, you wanted harder to grow plants, believe me, you got them!
> 
> These guys will be a tough assignment for ya!
> 
> Hey, I'm wondering if you know that having algea on the glass is a big reason for it spreading.
> Not saying yours is, but a rule of thumb is, if it is established somewhere, it will reproduce. The thing you want to do is destroy it's foothold in the tank. -hope that helps.
> 
> Another point.. it seems that there are few plants in there now. The new sensitive plants you have should take some time getting used to the new conditions in your tank.. maybe have some backup plants (fast growers) to take up some slack..
> Just some suggestions
> 
> Looking good, Lane!!
> 
> PS--I love that P gayi!


Looking good so far Joe. They are actually growing a bit.
Right now I really don't know the proper place for them. I just spread them all out so they can get the most light but later after they are fully acclimated and produce growth, I will need to rescape again.
Silly me, I intentionally left some algae on the glass especially on the back to provide food for the snails. Duh, that is why I always have algae. OK next water change will be for algae cleaning.

As for the fast growing plant, I got rid of most of them, but the glosso, gayi, the Micranthemum umbrosum, and the Limnophila aromatica do grow fairly quick in that tank.

Joe, the picture under the gayi is the grass that I told you about.

And thanks again for those beautiful plants Joe.


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## bc_buddah

wow this guy is like the ultimate role model . . he's like mr piranha fish hero . . .

his sig says " know fish or no fish! " lol

for da luv of p's


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## DiPpY eGgS

I still can't see the plant too good.. sorry for the long ID on this plant lol


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## dark FrOsT

WOW what an amazing tank...wow its beautiful. all your hard work paid off


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## Round Head

bc_buddah said:


> WOW what an amazing tank...wow its beautiful. all your hard work paid off


Thank you for the nice compliment but I am still learning everyday.
I'll tell you what guys, there are alot of knowledgeble members here especially Dippy.
Joe's been holding my hand since I became interested in the plants.
He taught me about lighting, substrate, plants, fertilizers, CO2, plants, and aquascaping.
Without Joe's help I just wouldn't know what to do.
Moreover, almost all of the plants that I own now came directly from Joe.
Dang, I am sure glad we have alot of guys like Joe here helping folks.


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## SangreRoja

That is a Beautiful tank you have there.


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## Bigkrup444

that is an awesome looking setup you have very impressive


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## Trigga

WOW thats amazing...good job man









Dippy..holy jesus you are one hell of a teacher.


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## redbellyman21

very nice man! I mean wow that is well planted, the pics on the 3rd page reminded me of dippy tanks, always green and pretty! I like the latest pics tho, they are nice u have a great mix of rocks plants and wood!


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## Round Head

Well, I just got my first camera and start practicing.
So here is an update.
Some are doing great and some are not but I'm going to fix that.
A pair of my 55W went out and that didn't help much either.
By the end of this week they will get the maximum light and a touch up of substrate for those Toninas and that one sorry looking Echinodorus horemanii 'Red'. 
Joe, if you don't mind please refreshing some of their names by me again.


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## DiPpY eGgS

awesome, Lane..
But those Toninas look like they are about to take a nap for good. No worries, mine are still growing








Refresher names:
First pic, the stem plant growing along the substrate-Rotala sp 'Goias'
3rd pic, bushy plant in front of rock-Micranthemum umbrosum
4th pic, you know-Rotala sp 'mini'
5th, a dead Tonina fluviatilis
6th middle.. Either Ludwigia inclinata var verticillata 'Araguia' or 'Pantanal' Not sure which, needs to get some color first.
7th Ludwigia inclinata
8th Limnophila sp 'mini' -awesome looking plant, and it smells even better..
9th Ludwigia sp 'Guinea'
10th background. Dead Tonina sp 'Belem' and/or 'Manaus'
11th stem plant hugging the substrate is Rotala sp 'mini' again







looks like it is happy in there!
Last pic- Eriocaulon setaceum, looking quite dead.. I'm telling you, any Tonina and Eriocaulon almost needs it's own setup to thrive, with very acidic substrate, low pH, KH and GH.
You did nothing wrong for them to be dying.. they are some of the hardest plants to grow in the whole hobby.


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## Round Head

That doesn't sound too good Joe.






















If I up-rooted them and find root growth, do you think they will wake up and take off in Aquasoil?
When I received them from you, I just let them float for a week while I was away and they seem to be doing OK.


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## DiPpY eGgS

Round Head said:


> That doesn't sound too good Joe.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> If I up-rooted them and find root growth, do you think they will wake up and take off in Aquasoil?
> When I received them from you, I just let them float for a week while I was away and they seem to be doing OK.


Ya, they seem to do ok for a week or 2, then UUGHGGHH..









If you still want a go at it, I can ship you more. But I will absolutely suggest a peat & mulm bottomed Aquasoil Amazonica-only- 5.5g or something.


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## Linford

Every time i read a new page on this topic your tank looks completley different with plants, logs, rocks, stones, fish twigs etc... the list is endless... lol. I think its great that you add variety to your aquarium project, must take up alot of time! Well done.


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## Round Head

I suppose it's time for an update. Let me sum up a little history about this tank.
I started to plant it for my large BD rhom but I was afraid that my inexperience will bring him harm so I tried it out with my Sanchezi.
The Sanchezi was in there for around 3 months and he didn't like it so I swap him out with my Irritans.
Same thing with the Irritan so I swaped him out with my Brandhti.
The Brandhti didn't work out either so I began to switch it over for community fish.
My ego was shattered because all of my piranhas were not able to adapt; however my 3 little nephews brought me alot of joy and happiness since they love this tank with all of the colorful little fish which they are alway eager to help me feed. Moreover with a community tank I was able to house an algae cleaning crew to help out a bit. But my ultimate goal will for my BD rhom.
As for the plants. As you can see that this tank had a serious transformation starting out with moderately challenging plants to a very challenging plants. Guess who is the culprit behind this? You got it, Dippy Eggs!!! 
So here they are guys. Please excuse me for the poor pictures and the minnor algae situation. I just upgraded my lighting and I am still learning how to manage lighting and fertilizers. The scape is also not very well placed because I want to learn the most favorable placements for each type of plants. Maybe my next update will look more professional.

Joe, it's gettin hot in here


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## DiPpY eGgS

Lane, looking great! You are getting some good growth on lots of those hard to grow plants! -Nice work!
When you grow out more of those plants, I think it will allow you to scape it how you want it








A Tonina midground, with T fluviatilis behind the other 'crested' Toninas, and the stem plants like L 'Cuba', and 'Pantanal' 
completely surrounding it might look nice








Nice tank! -looks better than it ever has!

PS-If you feed the SAE's fish food, they will ignore algea, and starve themselves for the fish food.. Keep it a light treat 1ce a month, you will be better off lol


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## Round Head

Thank you for the pointers Joe.
I found that the Tonina Belem are serious nitrate suckers.
They were around 8-9 inches tall and had occupied the entire right half of the tank when I had to dose 25ml nitrate daily in order to achieve a 15-20ppm. After I trimmed them down and replanted them 2 inches above substrate, the nitrate consumption when way down.
Do you know what is causing the Pantanal to have the curley leaves?
Also, can you remind me the name of that yellowish green plant with the long oval leafs?

BTW I can't limit the food for the SAE because of alot of other hungry fish in that tank. But they do graze all day long between meals.
You may not see the ottos in the pictures but this tank has an army of ottos in there along with one bristlenose. You are right though, they rather eat fish food than algae. The R rastrata are shooting off the storm. Yes, these swords are the smallest swords that I have ever seen.
They get up to an inch or so tall. I also noticed that if I let them remain "chained-up", they tend to stay shorter than the invidual nodes.
Apparently the glossos are also liking the ADA aqua soil very much so they don't creep upward any more.
The E. Cinereum have the most powerful root system of any plants I have encountered. I tried to replant one and it nearly gutted the peat bottom so now I have to work around them. LOL


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## Xantarc

dam thats straight gangster


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## flashover00

I like it man....it looks great and i cant wait till everything grows in.

Your story sounds like mine man....planted my tank for reds and they destroyed it, then swapped in my sanchezi and that didnt work out....finally just went to somethig else. Its hard setting up a planted tank, but i think its even harder having a piranha planted tank.


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## Murdoc

nice tank


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## Trigga

yeah dippy just to clarify but how do you feed the other fish without feeding the algea eaters?


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## DiPpY eGgS

Ya, every time I trim the plants, I have to cut back a little on dosing. I guess that makes sence..
Now I want to tear down all my other tanks, and leave the 1 75g compressus tank. The other 2 are way too time
consuming to keep nice. Then I could trim every week, and keep it pristene.
I think that is what I will do lol
The curley leaves on the Pantanal could be a micro deficiency. But don't take my word for it completely. What I would do,
is try and switch up dosing a bit, each time taking note to what I did differently, and observe what happens as a result.
That has helped me figure out a few problems, and showed me what certain plants need.
I think the plant that you want me to identify is _Ludwigia_ inclinata.

As far as feeding the SAE's, you are right that is hard to not feed them when there are other fish in there that need fed..
That is why I would keep an all algea eating crew in there, and feed them a wafer or 2 a week or so. To keep them grazing on algea.
But you don't want them to starve.. -My SAE's used to eat my favorite delicate plants.. turned them into a shredded mess.
And they are so fast, and can hide anywhere very well--makes removing them a HUGE pain


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## skubasteve!

Looks beautiful, want to drive to Wisconsin and plant mine for me?


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## Round Head

skubasteve! said:


> Looks beautiful, want to drive to Wisconsin and plant mine for me?


Ask Dippy real nicely and he might do it for you.








He is alot closer to you than me.

Joe, nearly planted this tank through his words of wisdom.








Me being a good student, I always try to come up with my "super genious" alternatives; however I have to admit that I had fallen on my face a few times.
Here is a good example. Joe sent me those Toninas because I told him that I wanted something more challenging. At that time, I had flourite and Joe said that Toninas and Eriocolon prefer a nutritious soft bottoms such as ADA Aqua Soil. They just don't do well without it. I agree with him so I told him that I will do just but with a twist. My genious and devious idea was to use small red plastic planting pots filled with ADA soil and burry them in the flourite to make it seem like those plants were growing in flourite. Joe said that he did that too and some how it didn't work out. I am thinking to myself, "It will work if I do it". Guess what? It didn't work but I hauled ass and replaced the entire tank with ADA soil to achieve the current system.


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## Round Head

Here is an update on this tank.
I added a huge rock on the right side and also instroduced a huge filter, Fluval FX5 pushing current from the right side to the Rhinox diffuser on the left end.
Under the Rhinox diffuser is the Tonina and Eriocaulon forest bath in a blanket of CO2 bubbles.


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## Genin

looking good round head. i like all the otos you have there.


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## ICEE

looking very good


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