# unusual disease NOW WITH PICS



## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

i have looked up aquarium diseases and cannot find my specific ailment. i cant tell if it is fungal, protozoan, bacterial viral. it is a medium sized abrasion on the side of the fish but the scales look like they are kinda peeling off and protrude a bit. it started with one fish and then spread to 2 others who have it in much earlier stages and appears very minor.

i did a 50% water change last night, did 2 tablespoons of salt per gallon (predissolved of course) and added melafix per the bottle directions. today i added melafix again as it reccomends. i raised the temp to 82F. what else should i do?

do i start an antibiotic regiment, i am hesistant since it requires a daily commitment. would adding some malachite green work?

the first fish that got it eventually died so i know that this wont go away on its own.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Damn-Not sure here Sir-

Doesn't sound too good though.....Maybe Jerry will have some input soon for ya...


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## acb (Nov 9, 2004)

try it, ive never personally used it, but what do you have to loose?


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

bloody hell mate, if you have tried other things and they are not working, im afraid you are gonna have to go on the meds to try and save your fish...................


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

i havent tried anything yet. the salt and melafix were my first treatments that i started yesterday. are there any other broad treatments available besides salt or melafix? antibiotics will likely take out the filter bacteria too?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Sounds like Costia to me. If the scales seem to be raised in a small area than that's what most likely it is. Fortunately a salt treatment to a salinity level of 0.3% over a 3 day period with a temp in the mid 70's and antibiotics usually take care of Costia. I would get the medicated food kind because I know people with Koi who had to treat costia and they had to inject the antibiotic into the fish.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

is 2 tablespoons per gallon enough salt?


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

now with pics
View attachment 159796


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

lament configuration said:


> now with pics
> View attachment 159796


Thats a BAD abcess!
How long ago did you notice it?


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## scotty (Oct 3, 2007)

ouch! id take out the carbon in the hob's if you got them, and maybe change or clean the media in your canister. possibly looks like heater burn thats infected. whatever it is it looks infected. thats all i can think of atm . but ill keep thinking of anything else.







maybe too much salt is irritating it?


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

definitely not heater burn, one fish had it and now this one got it. it was a small abrasion yesterday and it exploded into what you see above. i added the salt, raised temp, melafix yesterday but it got worse today. i dont see the fish scraping against the sand or driftwood so i dunno. i guess i will have to start antibiotic treatment too?


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

lament configuration said:


> definitely not heater burn, one fish had it and now this one got it. it was a small abrasion yesterday and it exploded into what you see above. i added the salt, raised temp, melafix yesterday but it got worse today. i dont see the fish scraping against the sand or driftwood so i dunno. i guess i will have to start antibiotic treatment too?


Man I would try to see if there was a website that deals with abscesses and hope they can help. I dont know of any people that hadle fish as far as what was stated earlier about gett shots.

I have been searching the past 20 minutes and havent been ablt to find anything that looks like that!
the abscess came out over night?


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

originally looked like a small scale protrusion like it was a localized bloat or something. then it turned into an open sore like that. another one of my cichlids has the early stages what this guy looked like 2 days ago.

f*ck


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## obsession530 (Jul 10, 2003)

It's bacterial... most likely ulcer disease caused by either aeromonas or pseudomonas bacteria. Check your water parameters and do large water changes. Most of the time this condition is due to poor water quality. 2 TBSP/gallon is way too much salt... are you sure you don't mean TSP?

It will also help if you take the fish out and swab it with a disinfectant like betadine and return it to clean water.

Good luck.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

guy at the lfs told me 2 tablespoons, DAMN IT. i will do another massive water change and get some antibiotics.


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## obsession530 (Jul 10, 2003)

The Salt FAQ states that 0.3% salt is approximately 3 TSP/gallon (3 tsp = 1 tbsp). Therefore you put twice as much as need to treat your fish. There have been cases where people have treated at double the amount (0.6% salt) but that usually for very resilient protozoan infestations.

Try the betadine and clean water first before resorting to antibiotics. If you do want to go the antibiotic route, you will need either a gram negative antibiotic or a wide spectrum antibiotic but will need to re-cycle your tank once treatment is finished.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

looks like some type of flesh eating diease KEEP YOUR HANDS OUT OF THAT FING TANK MAN

DUMP THE FISH IN THAT TANK AND COLOROX EVERY FREAKING THING THAT HAS COME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER BURN THE HOUSE DOWN AND DONT BREATH THE FUMES HAHAHAHAHAHAH

its disgusting whatever it is please whatever you do no more pics hahahaha


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Looks like costia to me.

Sorry , forgot to mention 2 tablespoons per gallon per day for 3 days will be too much imo, possibly sending your filter into osmotic shock, but definately 1 teaspoon per gallon per day for 3 days, leave alone for 2 weeks at raised temp with antibiotics


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## dalyhawk (Apr 30, 2007)

I've got a similiar situation, but not as bad, and i think mine is ammonia burn. I've been on break from school, so i haven't been able to keep up with good water changes, but i'd just say like others have been saying... keep your salt down to 1 TBSP/gallon, raise water temps, and make sure your params are perfect for a long time.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

dalyhawk said:


> I've got a similiar situation, but not as bad, and i think mine is ammonia burn. I've been on break from school, so i haven't been able to keep up with good water changes, but i'd just say like others have been saying... keep your salt down to *1 TBSP/gallon*, raise water temps, and make sure your params are perfect for a long time.


TSP, not TBSP


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## obsession530 (Jul 10, 2003)

Dr. Giggles said:


> I've got a similiar situation, but not as bad, and i think mine is ammonia burn. I've been on break from school, so i haven't been able to keep up with good water changes, but i'd just say like others have been saying... keep your salt down to *1 TBSP/gallon*, raise water temps, and make sure your params are perfect for a long time.


TSP, not TBSP
[/quote]
TBSP, not TSP

If the disease was costia, it would have web-like strands encompassing the body. The hole that's left behind would still be bacterial (secondary bacterial infection caused by the parasites).


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

ok thanks for all the help. i used 1 tbsp this time and transferred the sickest looking fish pictured above and 2 others that looked like they were starting the infection to a 26 gallon hospital tank. tank temp is 82F and melafix was also added. i also started an antbiotic treatment last night (erythromycin).

as an update this morning, the wound looks a lot better. i will get some pics tonight.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

lament configuration said:


> ok thanks for all the help. i used 1 tbsp this time and transferred the sickest looking fish pictured above and 2 others that looked like they were starting the infection to a 26 gallon hospital tank. tank temp is 82F and melafix was also added. i also started an antbiotic treatment last night (erythromycin).
> 
> as an update this morning, the wound looks a lot better. i will get some pics tonight.


Glad to hear it man-

Hopefully makes a full recovery.....Mad props for saveing this guy-(hopefully)


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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

those are your true green terrors right?

anywho i hope they get better for ya


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

nah these are wild trimacs. well the one pictured died this morning. last night the open sore looked like it was closing up but there was still some white discoloration. continued with melafix and erythromycin and this morning he was dead. there are 2 others that i caught in the very early stage of what this guy had and they are in much better shape. i havent seen the disease advance or make any progress yet, it seems to have stopped but the fish havent healed yet either.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

Sorry to hear that you lost one..







The white coloration on an open sore is usually a good sign that it was healing unless it was a fuzzy growth. For the others that look like the ulcers are not spreading but doesn't look like they are healing either, I would try the previous suggestion of swabbing the wounds with betadine. This will disinfect the wound and give the fish a headstart in healing. Keep up with the water changes and the salt.

Good luck...


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

wow thanks don, havent seen you on this board in a while. the white coloration was definitely not fuzzy and that is why i am shocked the fish died. is betadine common in stores? i dont remember seeing it at petsmart but will look for it at the lfs. the other 2 are still active and i just did another melafix, erythromycin treatment.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

Betadine is a disinfectant you can find at any grocery store or drugstore. It's that stuff you put onto scrapes and cuts that stings like a .... well you know... lol Mercurochrome and iodine does the same thing. Even if you done need it now, it's good to have in the medicine cabinet.

You just net the fish out, swab the wound with a betadine-saturated Q-tip, let it sit for about 10-15 seconds and return it to the tank. I don't even bother rinsing the wound before putting them back in. Some hobbyists even use Neosporin to treat the wound .

You might not even need to do it if the antibiotics are working for you. No need to stress the fish any further...


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

obsession530 said:


> I've got a similiar situation, but not as bad, and i think mine is ammonia burn. I've been on break from school, so i haven't been able to keep up with good water changes, but i'd just say like others have been saying... keep your salt down to *1 TBSP/gallon*, raise water temps, and make sure your params are perfect for a long time.


TSP, not TBSP
[/quote]
TBSP, not TSP

If the disease was costia, it would have web-like strands encompassing the body. The hole that's left behind would still be bacterial (secondary bacterial infection caused by the parasites).
[/quote]
When treating at 1 tsp per gallon it should be done daily over 3 days. If you add 1 tbsp per gallon (=3 tsp) in one day you risk osmotic shock to the beneficial bacteria in the filter. It's important to let people know it should be done over a 3 day period in equal doses.

Lament - sorry you lost that fish, hope the others are doing better.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

others are really quite active and the ulcers have not gotten worse but are slowly healing. last night i pulled them out and spread some neosporin on the wound and let them sit for a little while and returned them to the tank. i think these 2 will luckily pull through since i caught their infections early enough.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Never heard of actually using Neosporin??? Does this really work and are there any repercussion with the water quality?


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

i would do anything DonH says without questioning. nesporin is basically an antibiotic cream, fish seemed fine a day after treatment with it.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

Thanks... How are they doing?


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

hey don

they are doing much better. after i started the neosporin treatment the wounds are slowly healing. both look pretty good right now but i am going to give them some more time in the hospital tank just to make sure the ulcers have completely healed.

i did the salt, daily melafix, and daily erythromycin treatment for 7 days and today will be a water change.

don, in your experience are wild caught fish much more susceptible to water conditions and diseases? these wild trimacs were the only ones to get the ulcers whereas my F1 true A. rivulatus and burundi fronts didnt get affected at all.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

Glad to hear that your fish are doing better...

In my opinion, long term captives are just as hardy as tank bred fish. But if we are talking about recently imported fish, wild caught are generally known to be more sensitive to water conditions and susceptible to diseases. If you look at the journey a wild caught fish must goes through before it sees your tank, you'll understand why. Fish are netted or hooked, then have to travel sometimes miles to a holding facility, then exported to a wholesaler, then to an LFS, then to your tank where it's placed in an unfamiliar environment with water parameters that many times are very different from what they are used to. Keep in mind that through all those stops, they can be crammed into tanks that may have other sick fish which can rapidly spread of diseases like lymphocystis, internal parasites, etc.


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