# It's Official-I'm Estatic



## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I'll start off by telling you all that my Grandmother passed away on November 1, 2004. Since my dad always farmed her fields, she left us the house in her will. She has a nice big farm (about 30 acres) and a nice house with 1 barn and 1 tool shed. We still had to pay for the house, the estate was divided 5 ways, since my dad has 4 other siblings. So my dad planned on using his fifth as a down payment for the farm. We moved in, only to find that we could not get financing through. My dad had a forclosure on his records from a few years back, so nobody wanted to support us. We had 7 months to redeem the house after her death, and as you can see it has been more than that. We couldn't get anybody, finally we did, and now we don't have to move!! It is official, because my uncle (the administrator) signed papers over at the court house. It was such a stress for me everyday, and I am so happy now that it is over. Such a big worry off of my chest.









Sorry for dwelling on that. Well, I'm not moving, so you know what this means? Yup, I'm FINALLY getting my 130 gallon tank set-up. That's what I made this post for. To make you all aware, and ask a few questions. It is totally empty right now. I plan on getting natural gravel from Wal-Mart (don't laugh it's nice gravel







) and putting it in the tank along with about 3 dozen feeder goldfish. I've never had a tank this big, so I am wondering if 3 dozen feeders will be enough to cycle it. Will it cycle even faster with more than 3 dozen? I am also confused about how much gravel to get. How many pounds do you think it would take to make it a good inch or so high in a 130 gallon tank? Wal-Mart isn't even that far away from me, so I can always pick up more gravel or take a few bags back. They are always good with returns. I think that the gravel comes in 12 pound bags, but I'm not positive. I'm also still not sure if I want to get cariba or nattereri. Well I know that I want cariba, but they are so much more expensive, I will have to think about it some more. Maybe you could give me a little insight on that as well. Thanks so much guys. P-Fury Rocks!!








~Taylor~ Gees, I'm sorry this is so long.


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

grats man. natural gravel all th way


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Congrats!!! Sorry to hear about Grandma..


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## piranhaqueen (Nov 18, 2004)

I hate moving! Congrats on it all coming together for you! If it were me I would get cariba.... but they are like you said more expensive, and harder to find..... but it is probably only a one time investment (the fish).... so save up, and go all out for exactly what you want.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

piranhaqueen said:


> I hate moving! Congrats on it all coming together for you! If it were me I would get cariba.... but they are like you said more expensive, and harder to find..... but it is probably only a one time investment (the fish).... so save up, and go all out for exactly what you want.
> [snapback]1078690[/snapback]​


I agree. I always tell people on this site to get what they want too, otherwise they may get disappointed if they have to settle for something else. I really like the cariba, so I will try to get them from Jon Rare, but if I can't, then I won't be disappointed in reds, because I have had quite a few in the past. I've heard that cariba are much more cannabalistic, even when they are matured and quite a few inches in length. Is this true?
~Taylor~


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

I would DEFENITLY get caribe. I coudln't be more happy with mine. They are eating like MANIACS and aren't skittish at all. I would defenitly order some from him and if you needed you could always PM me and ask me questions! I'll give you my AIM if need be. Reds are great and all, but it seems you have already experienced more. So, I woul go to get caribe. They are at a perfect size now. The other plus I saw is, I really don't have to worry about the tank getting messey that fast, they don't sh*t that much this small. So that is my input!


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

O yea.. to add, I have NEVER seen so many small piranha attack a peice of krill like twice their size. To see them all six, come up and just tear that thing to shreads is awsome! I LOVE IT!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

kove32 said:


> I would DEFENITLY get caribe. I coudln't be more happy with mine. They are eating like MANIACS and aren't skittish at all. I would defenitly order some from him and if you needed you could always PM me and ask me questions! I'll give you my AIM if need be. Reds are great and all, but it seems you have already experienced more. So, I woul go to get caribe. They are at a perfect size now. The other plus I saw is, I really don't have to worry about the tank getting messey that fast, they don't sh*t that much this small. So that is my input!
> [snapback]1078780[/snapback]​


Thank you for that. If I got 8 it would be $160 when they are at $20 a piece. Then I have to figure shipping charges so that's a lot of money, but all worth it IMO. I'll have to figure out what shipping charges are, but there is no need to do that all now, because I still have another 4 weeks or more of cycling.







When he ships them, do they come to the post office or to the house??? Sorry, if these questions are stupid, I have never ordered fish before and I've never known anybody that has before either.
~Taylor~


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

RhomZilla said:


> Congrats!!! Sorry to hear about Grandma..
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Cariba are sweet, thats what Im planning on getting.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

RhomZilla said:


> Congrats!!! Sorry to hear about Grandma..
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Thanks. I was never close to her like my other siblings, because when my older siblings were growing up, my family lived in a house close to her house, so they were close to her, but then I grew up in a small city farther away. I never really got to know her that well. I actually learned more about her after she died, believe it or not. When I think about it, it's really pretty sad. But at an exciting time like this, I'm trying not to dwell on that bad things.
~Taylor~


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

taylorhedrich said:


> kove32 said:
> 
> 
> > I would DEFENITLY get caribe. I coudln't be more happy with mine. They are eating like MANIACS and aren't skittish at all. I would defenitly order some from him and if you needed you could always PM me and ask me questions! I'll give you my AIM if need be. Reds are great and all, but it seems you have already experienced more. So, I woul go to get caribe. They are at a perfect size now. The other plus I saw is, I really don't have to worry about the tank getting messey that fast, they don't sh*t that much this small. So that is my input!
> ...


They come to your house. If you order before 5:00 PM you'll have them around 10:30 AM the next day (saturdays and sundays are exception). Yes it is well worth it. Why not get something you really want if you are gonna have them for so many years?

O and don't worry, I was the first in my area to too. I had to take a chill pill cause I was freaking out SO bad! haha


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## dynasty691 (Jun 15, 2005)

no one cares botu ur house sr bout ur grnadmother and natural gravel looks better imo


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

dynasty691 said:


> no one cares botu ur house sr bout ur grnadmother and natural gravel looks better imo
> [snapback]1079106[/snapback]​


Seems a little hypocrititcal to me. I don't believe that anybody cares about your posts either. I can't even take someone seriously when they don't know how to spell easy words like "your" and don't use commas, apostrophes, or write in complete sentences such as yourself. Have you ever heard of a period? Seriously, where are you located? Alabama? Maybe you should spend less time posting worthless summarized crap of what other people say here, and more time reading a literature book in summer school! You take care now big boy.








~Taylor~


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

Enough said...


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> I'll start off by telling you all that my Grandmother passed away on November 1, 2004. Since my dad always farmed her fields, she left us the house in her will. She has a nice big farm (about 30 acres) and a nice house with 1 barn and 1 tool shed. We still had to pay for the house, the estate was divided 5 ways, since my dad has 4 other siblings. So my dad planned on using his fifth as a down payment for the farm. We moved in, only to find that we could not get financing through. My dad had a forclosure on his records from a few years back, so nobody wanted to support us. We had 7 months to redeem the house after her death, and as you can see it has been more than that. We couldn't get anybody, finally we did, and now we don't have to move!! It is official, because my uncle (the administrator) signed papers over at the court house. It was such a stress for me everyday, and I am so happy now that it is over. Such a big worry off of my chest.
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Can somebody please answer the bold questions above to the best of their knowledge. I would like to know by tonight, because I plan on going to get some gravel and fish in the morning. Thanks.
~Taylor~


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

It says them on the bags at walmart!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

kove32 said:


> It says them on the bags at walmart!
> [snapback]1079175[/snapback]​


Oh ok thanks.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> taylorhedrich said:
> 
> 
> > I'll start off by telling you all that my Grandmother passed away on November 1, 2004. Since my dad always farmed her fields, she left us the house in her will. She has a nice big farm (about 30 acres) and a nice house with 1 barn and 1 tool shed. We still had to pay for the house, the estate was divided 5 ways, since my dad has 4 other siblings. So my dad planned on using his fifth as a down payment for the farm. We moved in, only to find that we could not get financing through. My dad had a forclosure on his records from a few years back, so nobody wanted to support us. We had 7 months to redeem the house after her death, and as you can see it has been more than that. We couldn't get anybody, finally we did, and now we don't have to move!! It is official, because my uncle (the administrator) signed papers over at the court house. It was such a stress for me everyday, and I am so happy now that it is over. Such a big worry off of my chest.
> ...


~1lbs to every gallon, although more is better, and more is needed for live plants, also matters on what dimensions u have, 15 gal. is 24x12, same as a 20H, so that means u could have 15lbs. and on a 29 30x12.5 is the same as a 20L, so u can have the same. u dont u ditch the pygos and do something cool


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## weidjd (Feb 13, 2005)

I would go fishless cycle with Bio-spira and cut your time in half. Cannot wait for the Caribas I bet my little guys grow everyday and even 5 in 80 took one out, sad day that was for me. But the others are just evil feeders. Even try to get my hand when doing water changes. Sorry about ur Gma but glad you dont have to move though. GL with the 130. Oh Ya Caribas alll the way unless you want some Pirayas either would be great.


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## piranha98 (Jun 15, 2005)

dynasty691 said:


> no one cares botu ur house sr bout ur grnadmother and natural gravel looks better imo
> [snapback]1079106[/snapback]​


bigboy honestly ru you gay and if you read his info it says PA dip sh*t


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

weidjd said:


> I would go fishless cycle with Bio-spira and cut your time in half. Cannot wait for the Caribas I bet my little guys grow everyday and even 5 in 80 took one out, sad day that was for me. But the others are just evil feeders. Even try to get my hand when doing water changes. Sorry about ur Gma but glad you dont have to move though. GL with the 130. Oh Ya Caribas alll the way unless you want some Pirayas either would be great.
> [snapback]1079225[/snapback]​


Thanks for the suggestions. None of my local fish stores sell bio-spira, except PetsMart, which is a little over an hour away. Their price for it is ridiculous too. For that I would rather just do the cycle with the goldfish, and use the money I saved for other things like driftwood and I still have to get heaters, air pump and accessories and a good test kit.

Glad to hear you are enjoying your cariba so much. As of now I am pretty sure I'm getting the cariba, but I still have quite a while to make my final decision. They seem like a really cool fish to have, it just worries me how people say that they are very cannabalistic, even up through adulthood.
~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

piranha98 said:


> dynasty691 said:
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> 
> > no one cares botu ur house sr bout ur grnadmother and natural gravel looks better imo
> ...


He PM'ed me and told me how big and bad he was and how he was gonna kick my a**. Please stop spamming my PM box and don't get my topic locked!







Thanks.








~Taylor~


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> I'll start off by telling you all that my Grandmother passed away on November 1, 2004. Since my dad always farmed her fields, she left us the house in her will. She has a nice big farm (about 30 acres) and a nice house with 1 barn and 1 tool shed. We still had to pay for the house, the estate was divided 5 ways, since my dad has 4 other siblings. So my dad planned on using his fifth as a down payment for the farm. We moved in, only to find that we could not get financing through. My dad had a forclosure on his records from a few years back, so nobody wanted to support us. We had 7 months to redeem the house after her death, and as you can see it has been more than that. We couldn't get anybody, finally we did, and now we don't have to move!! It is official, because my uncle (the administrator) signed papers over at the court house. It was such a stress for me everyday, and I am so happy now that it is over. Such a big worry off of my chest.
> 
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> ...


Since you already have existing tanks running why don't you use one of those filters along with your new one to cycle the tank in a much shorter time?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

*Aaronic:* I am going to add the bio-sponge media from my 29 gallon filter into the 130 gallon tank to help speed up the process. Hopefully. My guess is that it won't be a huge impact, but I'm sure it will speed it up a bit notheless. Sorry I forgot to mention that, and thanks for the suggestion.








~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Tibs said:


> taylorhedrich said:
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So I guess you aren't a Pygo fan huh? I've always liked my reds in the past, and my brother has raised them a few different times as I was growing up. I just like to see a shoal interact with each other and grow together. I just can't see buying 1 fish and putting it in a tank, such as a Serra. I think that it would get boring to me. I guess we are are just 2 different people with 2 different personalities and 2 different likes. Everybody has their own things.
~Taylor~

BTW, If I were to ever decide to get a Serra. I would get a Diamond Rhom. Those are my favorite for looks and Rhoms seem to be really popular, so I thought that it would be the best Serra for me. I'd still like to learn more about Serras though.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> *Aaronic:* I am going to add the bio-sponge media from my 29 gallon filter into the 130 gallon tank to help speed up the process. Hopefully. My guess is that it won't be a huge impact, but I'm sure it will speed it up a bit notheless. Sorry I forgot to mention that, and thanks for the suggestion.
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The reason the cycle usually takes so long is because there is no bacteria at all and it all has to develope from scratch. And the first ones have the build up, and then the ones that turn nitrites into nitrates have to build up after that. If you use a bio-sponge from another tank with a lot of bacteria, it will all already be there so it can just simply multiply much faster, and both types of bacteria at the same time

Aaronic


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Aaronic said:


> taylorhedrich said:
> 
> 
> > *Aaronic:* I am going to add the bio-sponge media from my 29 gallon filter into the 130 gallon tank to help speed up the process. Hopefully. My guess is that it won't be a huge impact, but I'm sure it will speed it up a bit notheless. Sorry I forgot to mention that, and thanks for the suggestion.
> ...


Yes, I just didn't know that the bacteria would multiply so fast. I just kinda figured that since the bio-media from the filter on the 29 gallon tank is so small, that it wouldn't really make that much of an impact on 130 gallons of fresh water. But it is good to know that it multiplies fast. Thanks again!








~Taylor~


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> Aaronic said:
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> > taylorhedrich said:
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If the 29 gallon has a decent bio-load you could probably put the piranhas in right away and just allow the bacteria to multiply. You may have a slight mini cycle but as you know, piranhas are hardy fish and the mini cycle won't even effect hardly.

Make sure you dechlorinate the water so it doesn't kill off the bacteria before you run the water through it.

Aaronic


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

*Aaronic:* I do have quite a good bio-load on my 29 gallon because of the large oscar in such a small tank. He really needs a new home. Anyway, you are probably right, I bet the piranha would be fine if I followed the suggested steps, but I just can't do it. You have to see where I am coming from. It would be a horrible loss if they died, and that would be about $200 down the drain from the cost in cariba. I do not doubt you at all, it's just that I gotta play it safe. Especially since these are gonna be my first cariba ever!! I can't wait.

Well, I gotta go to bed. I am getting up early to go get the gravel. I am getting 12 (12 pound) bags of it. I will also pick up the feeder goldfish (3 dozen).








~Taylor~


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

Hi Talyor,

First of all, how you doing mate??? Sorry to hear about your gran!

Anyway, onto the fish!!! Wow, congrats on the 130. I am sure it will be insane!!!

I just have one question, When are you gonna try rhoms????









Best of luck for the future.

PM me and I will tell you how things are going with my little rhom "Beatrice"

Jay


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Taylor, do you have the new filters for the 130 gallon already????

If so go hook them up on the 29 gallon right now, throw them on the front if you have to, doesnt matter if it looks goofy, you will build up some bacteria, the sooner you can get them on the better.

also on the gravel, they probually have 25 pound bags, I would get 4 of them.

My 135 gallons, think I put 100 pounds in them 6' long x18" wide.
I prefer a thinner layer on the bottem, for easier cleaning, and I have big driftwoods in there being held down by the gravel..

You can pull off a faster cycle time if you can get it set up, and get nitrate, nitrite and ammonia readings, because if you use established media and you show that you have ammonia,nitrites and nitrates, it will stabilize faster, then going from scratch.

Also any of your buddies have aquariums???Maybe you can snag some media or sponges from anyone you know.
I did a 180 gallon using all established media and it was perfectly cycled.

3 dozen feeders is fine for the number of piranha you want to put in there.

On the cariba, my opionion is superreds are much more cannibalistic when smaller, they seem to have a real high metabilism.When smaller Iv lost more super reds then any other pygo, they are killers.

Glad you guys didnt lose your land, to bad you werent around here,Im always looking for new farms to bow hunt deer


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> Tibs said:
> 
> 
> > ~1lbs to every gallon, although more is better, and more is needed for live plants, also matters on what dimensions u have, 15 gal. is 24x12, same as a 20H, so that means u could have 15lbs. and on a 29 30x12.5 is the same as a 20L, so u can have the same. *u dont u ditch the pygos and do something cool *
> ...


when i first started in this hobby, i was like WTF why whould somebody dedicate a whole tank to one fish. well then my pygos got bigger, and were fighting cuz they didnt have enuf room, so i sold em and i though awww what the hell, ill get a serra. i got my eigen and that thing had way more aggression than my reds, and was in constant movement. now ill never go back to pygos. its basically a proven fact if u keep a fish alone theyll have more personallity(hell even solo pygos have generally more aggression and stuff), wit a tank that size get a elong, manuelli, or a shoal of geryi. rhoms wouldnt be the best choice as from what ive heard rhoms are fairly inactive. well anyway u seem like a pygo fan, theres no convincing ya, but i thought id just state my thought









BTW: get a fahaka puffer dude!


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

Tibs said:


> taylorhedrich said:
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So someone has told you rhoms and fairly inactive? I don't have much experience with other Serra's but my rhom is by far the most active and agressive fish I have ever seen. He goes nuts on the tank when my cat comes up to it or even my foot (with sock on) he tries to bite through the glass.


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## killerbee (Aug 18, 2004)

Taylor:

sorry to hear about your grandma







and don't worry about that idiot saying we don't care







....because we do. We are like a 2nd family to each other









On a brighter note congrats on your 130 and your future caribe...you will not regret them trust me i don't. I







them, only thing i would love more is piraya









Anyways your cycling question:

I would not use golfish for they can introduce diseases easier than other hardy fish. I reccomend using 3 red tin foil barbs (thats what i used) for my 6' x 18". You can also use small ciclids, tiger barbs, or any other hardy fish. Or do the fishless method (quicker) btw i have no experience with this.

I would also do what someone already suggested (i did this too) and put your new filters on the 29 u have now and let them start growing the bacteria. By the time you set up your 130 with gravel, heater, water, and decorations. You would have already have the bacteria process started. Once everything is setup the way u want add your filters and your cycle fish and monitor water parameter daily or every other day. Most important thing is to have patience. good luck. PM me if i can help u in any other way


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

Basically you are going to experience a mini-cycle when you put your piranhas in no matter what unless you match the bio load perfectly. 2 of my red bellies actually cycled my tank even without any other bacteria and lived through it fine, and those are actually my 2 biggest right now.

I say put the new filter on the 29 for a few days, order the caribe, and when the caribe arive put them in with the filter and use the same bio sponge from the 29 and you will be more than fine.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

mashunter18 said:


> Taylor, do you have the new filters for the 130 gallon already????
> 
> If so go hook them up on the 29 gallon right now, throw them on the front if you have to, doesnt matter if it looks goofy, you will build up some bacteria, the sooner you can get them on the better.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much guys, I am honored that you put so much time into my thread to congratulate me and help me out.









On my 130 I have a Rena Filstar xP3 Canister Filter. It is only a few months old. I really never thought about hooking it up to my 29 gallon, so it can build up bacteria. I think it is a brilliant idea and I am going to do it right after I sign off. I have a large oscar and a medium size pleco in the 29 gallon tank, so I'm sure they won't be affected by the power of the xP3. I will hang my HOB filter from my 29 gallon onto my 130. It will work out perfect, because my canopy is off anyway. I had to coat it with polyurethane, because mold was growing on it and I don't want the wood to rot. I didn't let it get severe though.

You are right, they were 25 pound bags, not 12 pound bags. I only glanced at them a long time ago, and never really thought about it again, because I had no clue I would be setting my tank up so fast. There were only 4 bags on the shelf at Wal-Mart, and they didn't have any more in stock, so I went to my local fish store and picked up another 25 pound bag. The lfs gravel was a little darker, so I mixed it with the others bags of gravel and it looks pretty neat. So there is 125 pounds of gravel in my tank. It looks really good, especially after seeing it empty for so long ( 5 months







).

I do not know of anybody else that has an aquarium, except my cousin, but he is always putting pike minnows in his 30 gallon tall tank, that die after a few days. Then he leaves them in there for a week, dead and clung to the filter, so I know I don't want to use his media anyway.









I'm glad that 3 dozen feeder goldfish is a good number, because that's what I got and they are swimming in there now. It is funny how they are so small and they all form a little shoal in that huge tank.







I fed 2 or 3, to my oscar though, he hasn't had a treat in a while. Poor lil guys didn't even have a chance to swim in his tank for 1 minute.









Let the cycling begin!!!!








~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Just use pure ammonia to do your cycle along with some bacteria from your 29 gallon. Will go faster and be more sterile then goldfish.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Oh yea and sorry about your Grandmother, but congrats about finally getting to get the tank setup. I know you've wanted to for what seems like forever now.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

its always hard to go through family things like that. from losing your grandma, to getting screwing over moneywise.

my family is going through a similar situation moneywise. my dads ex-partner screwed him out of A LOT of money, and ran. so now the courts are figuring everything out, but it's left us in a bad situation. no money to pay bills, lots of sacrifices. but i look at it, and say, "man, when this crap is over, there will be no more worrying.'

luckily everything worked out for you man, good luck with the new tank


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## shutter13 (Jun 23, 2004)

taylor--- to answer your question about the 3 dozen goldfish...

if you have more than that, no, it will not speed up the cycling process... what you have to do is match the cycling bioload to the bioload you plan to house.... so i think you said something about 8 baby caribe right? if you did 2 dozen small goldfish thats plenty of fish :nod:


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> Just use pure ammonia to do your cycle along with some bacteria from your 29 gallon. Will go faster and be more sterile then goldfish.
> [snapback]1080223[/snapback]​


I've never done it that way before, so I'll have to read a little bit about it. I'm sure there is something that explains it good on this site. I can have my HOB filter from my 29 gallon tank set-up and running on my 130 gallon tank even though there would be ammonia in the water? Wouldn't the ammonia kill the bacteria? Perhaps I'll answer those questions myself when I read more about it.











Puff said:


> its always hard to go through family things like that. from losing your grandma, to getting screwing over moneywise.
> 
> my family is going through a similar situation moneywise. my dads ex-partner screwed him out of A LOT of money, and ran. so now the courts are figuring everything out, but it's left us in a bad situation. no money to pay bills, lots of sacrifices. but i look at it, and say, "man, when this crap is over, there will be no more worrying.'
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words, they mean a lot to me. I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate family issues. I hope that everything get's worked out soon, and I'm glad to hear that you are staying positive about it. Keep your chin up.











shutter13 said:


> taylor--- to answer your question about the 3 dozen goldfish...
> 
> if you have more than that, no, it will not speed up the cycling process... what you have to do is match the cycling bioload to the bioload you plan to house.... so i think you said something about 8 baby caribe right? if you did 2 dozen small goldfish thats plenty of fish :nod:
> [snapback]1080326[/snapback]​


Yes, 8 baby (1") cariba is my plan. So I'm still misunderstood if having 3 dozen is too many? If it is, that is no problem, I have a hungry oscar.







If it is not too many, I will just leave them be, because I know that goldfish aren't good feeders anyway. Thanks for your help.
~Taylor~


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## shutter13 (Jun 23, 2004)

2 dozen feeders will produce plenty of ammonia to compensate for (8) 1" piranhas... just make sure you feed them at least twice a day and replace them as they die

let your oscar have fun with the extra 12







and ive seen george's 1" caribe in person, they're so cute :laugh:


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Taylor, ammonia will not "kill" your bacteria. Ammonia is what your bacteria feed off of. Using pure ammonia brings your ammonia spike on much quicker then waiting for goldfish to produce it.

Remember the water cycle. Ammonia --> Nitrite --> Nitrate --> Water Changes


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

If one were to do a pure ammonia method, this is what I would do:

(1) 6 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons initially
(2) Measure your ammonia level after you do this
(3) Add your HOB filter
(4) Add enough ammonia daily to keep at your initial level
(5) About every 3 days check your ammonia and nitrates
(6) Eventually you will see ammonia drop and nitrite rise, at this point check nitrates
(7) When your ammonia and nitrites hit zero and you have a high nitrate number you are cycled
(8) Do a 50% water change
(9) Acclimate fish and add them

Remember, me and JP are here to help you along the way bud.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> If one were to do a pure ammonia method, this is what I would do:
> 
> (1) 6 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons initially
> (2) Measure your ammonia level after you do this
> ...


That sounds so much easier than messing around with the goldfish. I just have to either try to find my testing supplies (about hopeless) or buy more of the liquid testers the next time I go to the fish store.

I will cycle the tank with ammonia and follow your instructions above, but I can't find my liquid testers since the move. I will just keep the goldfish in the tank until I get some testers the next time I go to town. Then I will take the goldfish out and start cycling it with ammonia. Is there a different measurement I could use besides 6 drops per 10 gallons? The only thing is I don't have a dropper, but I could try and pick one up. As you can already see I don't know that much about cycling so, thanks for helping me out so much guys.








~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Goto the drug store and get a dropper for like $1.50. They usually come in pairs so you can use the other one to get water out for your tests.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > If one were to do a pure ammonia method, this is what I would do:
> ...


Just order the caribe, your tank will be fine by the time they arrive


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Aaronic said:


> Just order the caribe, your tank will be fine by the time they arrive
> [snapback]1080624[/snapback]​


No way. I would NOT order your fish till you know you are 100% cycled. He's waited this long, and should take his time to be sure everythings right.

Why risk losing a fish?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> Aaronic said:
> 
> 
> > Just order the caribe, your tank will be fine by the time they arrive
> ...


My opinion as well. That would be a lot of money down the drain if something went wrong. I just don't want to risk it. I will just take my time and be thankful that I am able to do this right now. As stated before, I didn't expect to be able to do this so soon. I thought I was going to have to move and then settle into another house. That would have been even longer. Like I said I am thankful, therefore I can wait. I don't want to screw this up. These are going to be my very first cariba, or my very first piranha other than red bellies for that matter, so this means a lot to me.








~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Taylor, take your time, enjoy it, and learn a little. Again you know who and where we are if you get a little lost.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Aaronic said:
> ...


How old are you Taylor?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I am 14. I will be 15 on October 2nd.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> I am 14. I will be 15 on October 2nd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah I could tell you were young...
lol


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

i cant wait to see ur tank setup, im kinda the same way wit my 29 right now, im changing EVERYthing out, new filter,heater,gravel,decor, and my pleco collectionis gunna be in there. im pretty psyched bout that, i cant imagine u with a 130. glad to see that ur going wit caribe, reds woulda been sucha wast(IMO i still woulda done a serra), itll be cool to see ur fish when u do updates. are u gunna do live plants?


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

Tibs said:


> i cant wait to see ur tank setup, im kinda the same way wit my 29 right now, im changing EVERYthing out, new filter,heater,gravel,decor, and my pleco collectionis gunna be in there. im pretty psyched bout that, i cant imagine u with a 130. glad to see that ur going wit caribe, reds woulda been sucha wast(IMO i still woulda done a serra), itll be cool to see ur fish when u do updates. are u gunna do live plants?
> [snapback]1080677[/snapback]​


How are reds a waste? Some people say the stupidest things on this forum.

Reds are just a more commen pygo. No waste about them.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I concur. Reds have their own qualities, and when I buy my new place next year I'll have a shoal. Till then it's all Rhom all day.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> I concur. Reds have their own qualities, and when I buy my new place next year I'll have a shoal. Till then it's all Rhom all day.
> [snapback]1080686[/snapback]​


Rhom's are great. It is impossible to know about a single fish in a large tank until you actually own one. Rhom's are great!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Tibs said:


> i cant wait to see ur tank setup, im kinda the same way wit my 29 right now, im changing EVERYthing out, new filter,heater,gravel,decor, and my pleco collectionis gunna be in there. im pretty psyched bout that, i cant imagine u with a 130. glad to see that ur going wit caribe, reds woulda been sucha wast(IMO i still woulda done a serra), itll be cool to see ur fish when u do updates. are u gunna do live plants?
> [snapback]1080677[/snapback]​


I don't have a digital camera...







Maybe I can get one for my birthday or Christmas, but that is still a long time from now. I do have a scanner though, so maybe I can somehow scan pictures in. My HP software ticks me off, because whenever I scan a picture in, it places the picture really small on a blank white page. Then when I try to make it fit the page it won't.









I'm not going to do live plants. They just seem like a bother to me, and fake plants look about just as good, and they are cheap, so that's what I'm going for.
~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Well I got a LOT done to the tank today. I got the gravel all down, and it looks great. I've always had natural colored gravel in my tanks and I never tire of it.

I found a lot of cool rocks outside. The best one in the tank by far is black, and it has big gold sparkles all over it. Whenever I look at it in the water it reminds me of killerbee's Pygos, because his fish are big and deep black with gold sparkles.







The sparkles especially show when the light is on. It is really cool shaped. It starts big and kind of tapers down into a point. I just can't explain some of the neat rocks that I found and put in.

I also put some fake plants in. They were the ones that I had originally in my 29 gallon tank, but my oscar kept digging them up, so I never put them back in his tank. I still have to get a lot more plants next time I go to town. I am going to get some of the red ones this time too. I've always had green plants, but with looking at P-Fury members' tanks I am beginning to like the reddish ones. I believe that they are an immitation of Red Ludwiga.

That is all I got done today, hopefully I'll get more plants soon. I still need to get some ammonia and droppers too, so I can start cycling using the ammonia method. The tank looks 100% better than it did this morning.







Too bad I can't share images with ya'll....








~Taylor~


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## killerbee (Aug 18, 2004)

/\ thanks. Anyways make sure those rocks are safe to put in the aquarium....some rocks are not safe. This will help u:

http://www.uniquaria.com/articles/sr.html


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I looked at that link Killerbee, and it says that fossils are not supposed to be placed in an aquarium. I have quite a few smaller ones that are Petoskey Stones in the tank. I guess that they will have to be taken out. Too bad, they looked awesome in the water too....








~Taylor~


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## killerbee (Aug 18, 2004)

better safe than sorry bro. I rather have healthy p's versus a good cosmetic view of the tank







try to get someone to let u borrow a camera so we can see pics. good luck and most importantly have fun.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

cant wait to see it bro, yeah even though after having live plants for a lil while, i think there much better, but i agree, u dont have an experience wit em(i dont think) and ur first attempt being a 130 might be a lil overwhelming. im also a big fan of fake plants too. keep us updated(BTW why didnt u try sand?)


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Nope, I have never owned a live plant for an aquarium in my lifetime.









I didn't get sand mainly because I like the looks of natural gravel better, that and sand would have to be cleaned more often so it looked nice. I am not lazy, I just have a lot of animals pens to clean and stuff, because I breed poultry. When I am home all of the time in the summer it would be no big deal to keep up with sand, but when I start going to school, I barely have time for stuff like that after taking care of my other animals. But like I said, that isn't the main reason. The main reason is that I just like natural gravel better.








~Taylor~

EDIT: Wow, my 2,000th post already.


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

I just skimmed over a lot of the stuff and I'm pretty sure most of it is anserwed. Yea, good luck dude! I just got six baby caribe from Jon and they are by far my favorite fish. I could sit and watch them all day. To see a fish so small grab a huge peace of krill and just thrash it around is an awesome site. Also, I like how they are soo small, cute, and nonskittish!! Just my two cents, but I've talked to you before!! So, good luck with everything and congradulations!!


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

> It's Official-I'm Estatic, One Of The Happiest Days Of My Life


Usually this is followed by I just got laid for the first time :rasp:









Sounds like everything is going good on the tank, thats good news


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## piranhaqueen (Nov 18, 2004)

Hey Taylor - if you want 3 reds in your tank I have 3, they are about 5" now and really healthy eaters- they are in a 55 gallon that I want to turn into a planted community tank. Let me know, I am a couple of hours away from you.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

kove32 said:


> I just skimmed over a lot of the stuff and I'm pretty sure most of it is anserwed. Yea, good luck dude! I just got six baby caribe from Jon and they are by far my favorite fish. I could sit and watch them all day. To see a fish so small grab a huge peace of krill and just thrash it around is an awesome site. Also, I like how they are soo small, cute, and nonskittish!! Just my two cents, but I've talked to you before!! So, good luck with everything and congradulations!!
> [snapback]1081623[/snapback]​


yeah, wittle p's are the best, i loved my lil eigen, pedro said he was like 1" but he was more like .5", he would take a whole krill and rip it into shreds, and then go eat the floating shreds


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

piranhaqueen said:


> Hey Taylor - if you want 3 reds in your tank I have 3, they are about 5" now and really healthy eaters- they are in a 55 gallon that I want to turn into a planted community tank. Let me know, I am a couple of hours away from you.
> [snapback]1081762[/snapback]​


Sorry, but I don't have anywhere to put them.







The only fish tanks that I have are the ones listed in my sig, and I don't have a tank for them...sorry. There are quite a few members from Michigan on this site, so I'm sure if you posted in the Members' Classifieds, you'd have no trouble selling them.







What makes you want to get rid of them? Just tired of 'em? From looking at your signature, you won't have any piranha when you sell the 5" reds.

Glad to hear that you enjoy your cariba so much kove32. I asked earlier if cariba are really cannabalistic, even through adult life, because that is sorta what I have heard and come to understand. Mashunter said that his super reds are/were very cannabalistic, but I was never really given an oppinion if cariba were. Please post your comments regarding my question. I would appreciate it very much. Thanks.








~Taylor~


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

I cant believe I haven't seen this thread till just now! So your finally getting her running, Sweet!








About the caribes being more canabalistic that other pygos, that I do not know. I have always heard that piraya were the most canabalistic pygo...perhaps we should post something in Piranha Aquario because I am interested in an answer as well. I have been planning what I am going to do with my tank when I get back and want to add two more pygos to my 75 a tern and a caribe so it would be a good idea to hear what Frank has to say about this issue.



taylorhedrich said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Just use pure ammonia to do your cycle along with some bacteria from your 29 gallon. Will go faster and be more sterile then goldfish.
> ...


????????? I am sorry to say this but that is just plain stupid. 
I would get rid of the feeders all together and go with the docta's orders and just do a straight up pure ammonia cycle. As you have been saying all along you want to get the cycle complete before adding your caribes because you dont want them to die as a result of ammonia poisoning, but the same goes with the feeders, they very well could kill your 200 dollar caribes as well.
I think you should borrow a camera from a friend or find out how your scanner works or something. There is also an option of when you get pics developed to get digital copies as well.
Good luck and I'll stay tuned to your thread


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

BigChuckP,
You are right it was totally a stupid thing to do, because the next day I was looking at the goldfish and what did I see? Tiny little cotton balls on some of their tail fins and dorsal fin.







I got them out right away, of course, and disposed of them, because I didn't have a quarantine/hospital tank to treat them in. I was hoping that since fish aren't going to be in there for a long time the ick in the tank would die, because it wouldn't have anything to feed on, but I don't really understand how that stuff works.

I didn't get to town yesterday to get my testing supplies, ammonia, and droppers so probably today. My parents know how ancy I am. I'd also like to get some more fake plants today, that way my tank will be finished, except for the fake driftwood that I can get at PetsMart an hour away from here.

I'll work on the scanner today. Maybe re-install the hardware, because it spefically says what size to change the picture and when I click on it, it does nothing. I can also have my older brother take a look at it, because he is usually pretty good at that stuff. Even if I do get it fixed, it will be another 3-4 days before I can scan the pictures in, because I still have to get the film developed in the camera.
~Taylor~


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## dynasty691 (Jun 15, 2005)

also to help speed it up u can take some gravel form your old tank and put it in your new tank. The old gravel will have hte benifical bacteria.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> If one were to do a pure ammonia method, this is what I would do:
> 
> (1) 6 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons initially
> (2) Measure your ammonia level after you do this
> ...


After I got 78 drops of ammonia (what was needed for my tank), I tested it and the ammonia level was .50 ppm. So from the looks of doctorvtec's directions I will have to just add a few drops of ammonia, test the water to see if it is at the initial level yet, if not add more and test again and keep doing that every day.....it sure sounds like a pain, but I know that it will be worth it in the end.

The only thing I don't understand about his directions is that for step #5, he told me to check my ammonia and nitrite levels every 3rd day, well don't I have to test my ammonia level everyday when I add the ammonia to the tank, so I can keep it at .50 ppm (the initial level)? 
~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > If one were to do a pure ammonia method, this is what I would do:
> ...


I just saw doctorvspec's write-up in the Water Chemistry forum, and he said that when you have your 6 drops of ammonia per gallon added, the ammonia level should be 5 ppm. Why is mine only .50 ppm?
~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Man I really don't know what's going on. I still can't get it up to 5 ppm, and I have put triple or quadruple the dosage of 6 drops per gallon.







How come this doesn't seem to be working for me?







Do I just keep adding and testing until I get it up to 5 ppm? I would like some help. Thanks.
~Taylor~


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

What kind of test do you have that shows as low as .5 and all the way up to 5? I am somewhat far away from my test kit at the moment so I cant tell you what it looks like but I know it didnt show as low as .5 all the way to 5. Perhaps you are reading it wrong...?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

BigChuckP said:


> What kind of test do you have that shows as low as .5 and all the way up to 5? I am somewhat far away from my test kit at the moment so I cant tell you what it looks like but I know it didnt show as low as .5 all the way to 5. Perhaps you are reading it wrong...?
> [snapback]1084416[/snapback]​


I have the Aquarium Pharmeceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit . You dip some water into a test tube, to the line on the tube. Then you put in 8 drops from the bottle of Ammonia #1 and then immediately follow it by 8 drops of Ammonia #2. (There are 2 different bottles of the ammonia tester). Then you let is set for 5 minutes, and compare it to the included ammonia card. It has the increments of 0 ppm, 0.25, 0.50, 1.0, 2.0, 4.0, and 8.0. The highest my water is now is about 2.0 ppm, and that's even after my triple or quadruple dosage. I'm not reading it wrong, I have the card right here so I could look at the increments.

So now do I just keep adding ammonia and testing until it gets to 5 ppm? I really don't want to screw this up, because doctorvtec mentioned in his write-up that he made a mistake by spiking his nitrites too high, so it took him 2 months his first time. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks so much guys.
~Taylor~


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

Alright so you have your eye-dropper and you put around 78 drops in your tank, damn thats a lot of drops, and you have done this everyday since you started the fishless cycle?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

BigChuckP said:


> Alright so you have your eye-dropper and you put around 78 drops in your tank, damn thats a lot of drops, and you have done this everyday since you started the fishless cycle?
> [snapback]1084445[/snapback]​


Well if you do the reccommended dosage, which is 6 drops per 10 gallons. My tank is 130 gallons so that breaks down to 13*6, which is 78 drops. I just started last night, and like I said, since the ammonia level hasn't reached 5 ppm, I have tripled or quadrupled the dosage just today.







I just am afraid that I am doing something wrong. Doctorvtec come to my rescue!!








~Taylor~

EDIT: Forgot to mention that yes, I do use a dropper.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Don't worry about the 5 PPM, get it around 1 and be done with it. It's supposed to register around .5 - 1.5 Typo in the faq changing now.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> Don't worry about the 5 PPM, get it around 1 and be done with it. It's supposed to register around .5 - 1.5 Typo in the faq changing now.
> [snapback]1084461[/snapback]​


Ok good, so it is at 2 ppm right now, so I will just let it mellow without adding anymore ammonia until it goes below .5 ppm. I should be ok right?
~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Taylor. You are not going to get up to 5ppmunless you do alot of drops.

Nomatter how you seeded your tank, if you keep adding 6-8 drops per 10 gallons per day, you will see it spike before it drops. This spike can usually be anywhere from 1.5 - 5.

Problem with methods that have you spike it WAY high right off the bat is that it can actually slow your cycle down to a crawl.

Just do the 6-8 drop method a day, and you'll be fine, I promise.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

No, continue to add 6 drops per 10 daily until you see the Nitrit spike.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> No, continue to add 6 drops per 10 daily until you see the Nitrit spike.
> [snapback]1084466[/snapback]​


Ok I think I got it now.







Alright, I'll just keep adding 78 drops a day, and test my nitrites too. When I notice the nitrite spike, I will reduce the dosage to 3 drops per 10 gallons. Thanks so much.








~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

taylorhedrich said:



> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > No, continue to add 6 drops per 10 daily until you see the Nitrit spike.
> ...


Good job kiddo. If I would have gotten into fish at your age.... I would probably be a Marine Biologist and not a I.T. guy. BUT after my wife gets her pharmacy degree I am pondering the idea of going back to college yet again to pursue either Marine Biology, or to be a Vet.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> taylorhedrich said:
> 
> 
> > doctorvtec said:
> ...


I think that you definately have the potential. What did you study at college for the first time?


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Am currently back in school for Information Technology. Just getting a "get me by degree" so I can put my wife through school.

I started my first I.T. job when I was 17, and stopped 8 years later to finally get a degree so I can earn more cash.

Got several possibilities after the wifes a pharmacist, since she'll be making a ton of money. Marine Bio, Vet, maybe even just open up a fish store wherever we end up living.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> Am currently back in school for Information Technology. Just getting a "get me by degree" so I can put my wife through school.
> 
> I started my first I.T. job when I was 17, and stopped 8 years later to finally get a degree so I can earn more cash.
> 
> ...


Wow, those all sound like really cool choices. I could personally never be a vet, because I don't have everything in me that it takes. I can't take blood and guts and stuff like that. It also isn't very fun to have to put a little girl's best friend to sleep if needed.

I think a marine biologist job sounds neat, although I am not fully aware of what it consists of doing.

That would be awesome to open up your very own fish store, or even a pet store. When you hired workers you could possibly make sure that they knew a little something about fish, so that they don't give out tons of false information about fish and other pets to customers. It is a really big pet peeve of mine.

Good luck choosing, and thanks for patiently helping me along with the cycle.








~Taylor~


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## mykil73g (Aug 28, 2004)

glad things turned out for the better! good luck w/ your tank.


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## omaid (Apr 23, 2005)

:laugh: CONGRATS MAN I HOPE YOUR TANK IS FINE AND I THINK THE RULE IS 4 EVERY 10 GALLONS OF WATER THERE IS 10 POUNDS OF ROCK S GOOD LUCK MAN SORRY TO HEAR AOUT YOUR GRANDMA GOOD LUCK WITH UR P'S


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

How is it going? Get pics yet?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

It is going GREAT! My nitrites have spiked and now they are going back down, so I cut the ammonia dosage in half to 3 drops per 10 gallons. It's very close to being done, which is good, because I am trying to get ahold of Jon to order my cariba. I am almost forced to order them early because he only has 20 left, and supposedly they only come once a year. The cariba will have to stay in my oscar tank until the 130 is done cycling, which I'm guessing will be a week max. They are 2" in length, so I'm hoping that 7 in that 29 gallon for a week won't drive them to kill each other. I'm very worried about that, but I will keep them well fed.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures. My brother lives up north, and he mentioned he has a digital cam, so the next time he comes home I will ask him to bring it. The only problem is that he hardly ever comes home. I do have this 1 picture of my tank. It is not recent, and it was taken when I was in the middle of decorating it, so there are a lot more plants on each side of the tank, and I still want to get a background. As mentioned before, nobody around me sells driftwood, not even PetsMart, because they sell the synthetic stuff, so I guess I won't have it for a while....
~Taylor~

EDIT: I wanted to mention that the canopy is off in this picture. It was growing some mold, so I took it off to treat it with a nice coat of polyurethane.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Whoa, I just got done checking my parameters. My nitrites and ammonia are at zero. Yesterday my nitrites were at .25 I didn't know that it would finish off that fast. Sweet, now when my cariba come I won't have to bother putting them in the 29 gallon.








~Taylor~


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

i wouldnt touch the tank man looks very nice just has it is..goodluck


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

lightning2004 said:


> i wouldnt touch the tank man looks very nice just has it is..goodluck
> [snapback]1101873[/snapback]​


If you could see a picture of it now, you would be glad that I added more plants. It looks a lot better in my opinion. I also think that a background will give it a finished look, as well as some driftwood if I can find some. I am not going to stress myself trying to find driftwood, because it looks really nice with just plants and rocks in my opinion.
~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

In the doctor's pinned write-up, he said that I will know my tank is cycled when the nitrites and ammonia are at 0, and the nitrates are high. My nitrates are at 0 though. It isn't a big deal is it? Am I worrying too much over nothing?








~Taylor~


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Well guys, as you can see in my signature, I ordered my cariba today from Jon Rare, just before he left for vacation, and they are coming tomorrow!! I can't wait. Thanks so much for helping me with everything, especially doctorvtec, you made it possible for me to get my tank cycled a LOT faster using the fishless cycle, rather than using fish. Thanks again everyone, P-Fury rocks!!








~Taylor~


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