# gold spilo size to age? to when can breed?



## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

i dunno how many of you are aware of my gold spilo cohab, but i currently, for almost 3 months w/ no losses, have 9 of them in a 75g. they are all in the 5" +/- range w/ the larger ones about 5.5", the smaller a little under 5".

they have not really put on much, if any, appreciable size since i have had them. i would say that maybe 3 or 4 of them have put on a 1/2", with the rest almost nothing.

so, that's where it gets tricky. i'm trying to find out *IF* they could be sexually mature at that size? does anyone here have any idea? i've been trying to get a hold of some people here and on other boards that could give me a more definitive answer...still waiting to hear. also, from another member on another board who did breed them, they did not look much bigger than mine in the PICTURES.

it's hard to say, then. i believe george @ SA estimated them to be around 9 months when i got them, so they might be around a year...but, again, i am unsure, as i believe that was a very rough estimate.

here is where it gets a little interesting. one of the smaller ones, probably about 4.5", looked like he wanted half the tank to him/her self and it appeared he was moving gravel around. so, what i did, having experience in breeding reds, i sectioned off each end of the tank for a (hopeful) breeding place and added some coconut fiber. it's hard to say what is going on...he hasn't darkened in color and its hard to get a real closeup look as the scatter and huddle together if i get too close.

pretty much, i'm asking the question, if they are possibly of breeding age, or at such a small size, def. could not be? i was never planning to breed them, and think it probably won't happen in a med sized tank, but possibly in a 180g or so.

if he continues his behavior, i might separate the "shoal" again, so as to maybe encourage the behavior in a less crowded tank with more privacy.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

"SEXUAL MATURITY

Ivana Reis Lamas and Alexandre Lima Godinho

Department of Zoology, Institute of Biological Sciences, Federal University of Minas Gerais, Belo Horizonte, 31270-901 MG,

Brazil Synopsis Reproduction in female Serrasalmus spilopleura (Characiformes, Characidae) from the Itumbiara reservoir (18°28 S, 48°36 W), Paranaíba River, Brazil, was examined with emphasis on the relationship between condition factors and coelomic fat, the annual reproductive cycle and the unusual dynamics of its sexual maturity. The condition factor and coelomic fat index follow a similar pattern along the stages of reproductive cycle. Variations in the condition factor along the reproductive cycle were assigned to variations in the fat contents of the carcass. Serrasalmus spilopleura exhibits characteristics of partial spawning fish and reproduces throughout the year. Sexual maturity occurs at 17.8 cm standard length. Resting and totally spent females were not captured. Females cycle from partially spent to intermediate/advanced maturation without going into the totally spent or resting stages. The initial maturation stage is restricted to fish of intermediate size. Once the initial maturation stage has started the fish remains there for a considerable period of its lifetime before entering in the intermediate maturation stage, an uncommon sexual maturity pattern. The long duration of the initial maturation stage was responsible for the females not returning to the resting stage after spawning."

"The average lenght in the beginning of the gonadal maturation (L50) indicated that S. spilopleura was able to reproduce at 140mm Ls (females) and 150mm Ls (males); and that the average lenght in winch all the individuals are capable to reproduce (L100) was 150mm Ls (females) and 170mm Ls (males). The reproductive period was determined, through macroscopic analysis of the gonadal maturity stages and variability of the gonadossomatic index (DIGS), to go from September to December. In the present paper, an analysis of standards in the circulars pigmentation present in juvenile and subadults was performed, and those were attributed to camouflage parameters. In adults, uniform and specific patterns of the pigmentation were attributed to secondary sexual aspects, which are not associated only to the reproductive period, through intensification in the anal and caudal fins and flanks of the body in males. The growth analysis showed animals aged between two and eleven years old. "

^From opefe
A bit of info


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

very nice, thanks.

two observations and talking points: 1)i don't think manipulation and simulation of the wet/dry seasons should be needed, because they have been known to breed year round. the only person i have seen breed them, on that OTHER site did just that. 2)i believe i read that the max size of the species can vary from locality, like aggression appears to be, so maybe different ones mature, sexually, at different sizes.

i'm not trying hard to breed them and have manipulated their environment only slightly...setting up a breeding area for them with some coconut fiber. other than that, not much has been changed/altered. plus, the tank is probably too damn crowded to breed in, IF it is even possible at this point. and lastly, again, IF any of them are sexually mature, regardless, they are disturbed too much by my presence and i think that PRIVACY might be the #1 factor.

i've been trying to get ahold of the guy who documented their breding on the other site...no luck







hasn't been active there for over a month, which is strange because he seemed to be the most active member there for a while.


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Another person on a different piranha forum has bred macs before and says they are sexually active after a year. Hes not talking out of his ass either he has the pics to prove it.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

yeah i know who and where you are talking about, but, i didn't see the information on them being sexually active after a year...so, thanks!


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