# HELP ID NOT A RED BELLY



## 63galaxie

SORRY FOR THE BAD PIC 
BUT I AM SURE IT IS NOT A RED BELLY 
BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A BIG BLACK SPOT ON THE SIDE OF ITS GILLS I THINK A LITTLE BARELY CAN SEE IT
THE PIRANHA IS A LITTLE BIT PEARL WHITE WITH A RED BOTTOM FIN 
AND IT DOEN'T HAVE BLACK DOTS LIKE MY BABY RED BELLY


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## b_ack51

First pic red belly

Second pic, looks like a pygo and I would say Red belly again.

I would ask for better pictures.


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## rchan11

Agree with B_ack.


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## P boost

both look like pygo's to me hmmm the juvi spots are not present in the 2nd pic that doesn't rule him out though


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## Rice & Beanz

I have the same size rbp...they are rbp for sure.


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## a-ronn

Get a side shot of the second fish for us


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## 63galaxie

a-ronn said:


> Get a side shot of the second fish for us


100 % SURE IT IS NOT A RED BELLY THE PIRANHA IS ALL WHITE


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## eiji

at that size, mine have spots... but it really looks like an Rbp


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## proud2bcanadian

Yep. Definitely looks like an RBP.


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## 63galaxie

proud2bcanadian said:


> Yep. Definitely looks like an RBP.


I no its not a red it has no spots /dots all over the side like all of my reds do and the past red i had to
All red bellys have spot till they reach 6-7 inches this guy has none only a faded one on its grillone on each side you can barly see it and that fish is a white pearl colour an my reds are yellowesh gold speckel with a red belly while that fish has no red belly it is white


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## primetime3wise

rbp


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## flashover00

Ok...instead of trying to convince the 7 people above that its NOT a RBP just post some more pics so everyone can make a better informed decision.

It looks like some sort of pygo given the head shape and anal fin coloration. If it is a pygo then chances are its gonna be a Red belly because they are the most common.....this would explain the reason everyone is saying RBP. Either wait it out and see how the colorations grow in so you can see if its another type of pygo, or take some better pictures so we can see just what your are taking about.


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## rocker

red


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## 63galaxie

rocker said:


> red


bump


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## Piranha Guru

Looking at your updated pics, I'd have to say it is an oddball Red as well.

Is that other fish in your tank the "Red" you are comparing it to? The other fish looks like a serra to me. I'd like to see more pics of the other fish.


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## 63galaxie

BioTeach said:


> Looking at your updated pics, I'd have to say it is an oddball Red as well.
> 
> Is that other fish in your tank the "Red" you are comparing it to? The other fish looks like a serra to me. I'd like to see more pics of the other fish.


NO THE OTHER FISH IS A 4 INCH BLACK RHOM ITS HIS FRIEND

i THINK IT IS A CARIBE LOOK AT THE BUMP ON ITS HEAD NOTHING LIKE A RED BELLY MORE LIKE A CARIBE


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## Piranha Guru

63galaxie said:


> Looking at your updated pics, I'd have to say it is an oddball Red as well.
> 
> Is that other fish in your tank the "Red" you are comparing it to? The other fish looks like a serra to me. I'd like to see more pics of the other fish.


NO THE OTHER FISH IS A 4 INCH BLACK RHOM ITS HIS FRIEND
[/quote]

Yikes! I'd remove one of them ASAP or they'll take care of that for you.

I got a little confused because you removed your old pics when you updated...next time just put the new pics in a reply.


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## 63galaxie

BioTeach said:


> Looking at your updated pics, I'd have to say it is an oddball Red as well.
> 
> Is that other fish in your tank the "Red" you are comparing it to? The other fish looks like a serra to me. I'd like to see more pics of the other fish.


NO THE OTHER FISH IS A 4 INCH BLACK RHOM ITS HIS FRIEND
[/quote]

Yikes! I'd remove one of them ASAP or they'll take care of that for you.

I got a little confused because you removed your old pics when you updated...next time just put the new pics in a reply.









[/quote]
sorry about that but no there friends but my rhom runs it in the tank


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## Ægir

63galaxie said:


> Looking at your updated pics, I'd have to say it is an oddball Red as well.
> 
> Is that other fish in your tank the "Red" you are comparing it to? The other fish looks like a serra to me. I'd like to see more pics of the other fish.


NO THE OTHER FISH IS A 4 INCH BLACK RHOM ITS HIS FRIEND
[/quote]

Yikes! I'd remove one of them ASAP or they'll take care of that for you.

I got a little confused because you removed your old pics when you updated...next time just put the new pics in a reply.








[/quote]
sorry about that but no there friends but my rhom runs it in the tank
[/quote]
and your rhom is gunna kill that mystery fish reall soon... then you dont have to worry about the ID.... problem solved


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## 63galaxie

lol like i said there friends but i still don't turst the rhom


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## Ægir

63galaxie said:


> lol like i said there friends but i still don't turst the rhom


nooo... they arent friends... serras have no friends, they are SOLITARY species, loaners, whatever you wana call it.... trust me, i had two together and it lasted about 4 seconds, untill i turned my back and one was hungry.... seperate them immediately or you will loose one or the other


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## spinalremains

Sorry dude, its a red belly. I had one that was white for a long time.


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## 63galaxie

there are no white red belly only golden colour ones even super reds aren't white only caribe are and head shape say caribe it looks nothing like a red 
reds don't have the bump on there forhead

# 2 caribe look white color with bluesh on tip of the tale and the clear withred bottom fin 100% its look alike mine just mine has a faded black dot

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN


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## Trigga

A Pristo or maybe an Eigenmanni


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## SangreRoja

Well if you say it's not a Red then what do you want it to be. Ok for you its a rare Albino Piranha :laugh:


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## rocker

Trigga said:


> A Pristo or maybe an Eigenmanni


wha?


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## spinalremains

63galaxie said:


> there are no white red belly only golden colour ones even super reds aren't white only caribe are and head shape say caribe it looks nothing like a red
> reds don't have the bump on there forhead
> 
> # 2 caribe look white color with bluesh on tip of the tale and the clear withred bottom fin 100% its look alike mine just mine has a faded black dot
> 
> http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN


Give it a year or so, and we'll see what it looks like. I had a rbp that looked white for about a year and then gained its normal coloration. Then you couldn't tell the difference from the other rbps.


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## 63galaxie

spinalremains said:


> there are no white red belly only golden colour ones even super reds aren't white only caribe are and head shape say caribe it looks nothing like a red
> reds don't have the bump on there forhead
> 
> # 2 caribe look white color with bluesh on tip of the tale and the clear withred bottom fin 100% its look alike mine just mine has a faded black dot
> 
> http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN


Give it a year or so, and we'll see what it looks like. I had a rbp that looked white for about a year and then gained its normal coloration. Then you couldn't tell the difference from the other rbps.








[/quote]
but i am not only going by its color but the shape of its head to the top fin is like a caribe, reds have a less slop to there top fin


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## spinalremains

Maybe you should post some more pics so we can have a better look.


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## rocker

63galaxie said:


> but i am not only going by its color but the shape of its head to the top fin is like a caribe, reds have a less slop to there top fin


my 3 inch red has a full blood red anal fin.

And caribes have a more rounded head shape because of thier 'bulldog' like head, not the slight 'bump' as you described.

i dont see the point in making this thread where we are trying to help you get a positive id on it but u keep on persisting its something else. Call it what you want i just feel srry for the buyer.


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## the REASON

the head shape and color are not traits that define the species. its most likely an RBP.

and get that serra out.


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## RB 32

100% RED-Bellied Piranha!


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## PygoFanatic

RB 32 said:


> 100% RED-Bellied Piranha!


More like 10000000% Red Belly.

The fact that your RBP shimmers different colors is not grounds for ruling out that its a Red. The shape of your fish's head leave open the possibility for it to be a Red or Caribe. Also, I dont see a humeral spot, which would most likely rule out Caribe. You have yourself a Red Belly...........and its in the same tank as a Rhom. Not smart.


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## 63galaxie

PygoFanatic said:


> 100% RED-Bellied Piranha!


More like 10000000% Red Belly.

The fact that your RBP shimmers different colors is not grounds for ruling out that its a Red. The shape of your fish's head leave open the possibility for it to be a Red or Caribe. Also, I dont see a humeral spot, which would most likely rule out Caribe. You have yourself a Red Belly...........and its in the same tank as a Rhom. Not smart.
[/quote]
red bellys are called red bellys becuase they have red bellys so if it is a red belly where is his red belly and how come it doesn't have black spots like all of my reds have and everybuddy elses reds have black spot all over the side till they are at least 7 inches this guy is about 3 1/2 inches and he never had spots all over his side or a red belly and there still is the caribe spot but it looks faded out as you can see on the pic so if it is a red why doen't it look like one and look at the head shape and the shape of its top fin says caribe look here click url http://www.sysf.physto.se/~klere/piranha/taddyel.htm


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## 63galaxie

Sangre_Roja said:


> Well if you say it's not a Red then what do you want it to be. Ok for you its a rare Albino Piranha :laugh:


look white caribe on p-fury forums http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=141471
you don't no what you are talking about


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## the REASON

what about terns? they are pygocentrus natteri but they dont have red bellies. red belly is a common name simply because most natteri do indeed have red bellies. not all tho. from the pics you have provided i would say that it is a red belly. the head shape doesnt mean much when identifying this species. if you think it is a caribe and arent going to rest until someone else says it is then thats fine but you and he would most likely be wrong.


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## ethnics

its a rbp... i have 3 of them that are exactly like yours, almost no red at all, barely on the anal fin. but i kno 100% its a rbp because it came from the same batch as the other 8 rbp i have. he's a weird outcast. no spots, no red... but its still a rbp. your rbp could be orange. but jus cuz its orange doesn't delete the fact that it could still be an rbp. shape, look has more to do with its species then jus "where's the red belly, where's the spots"


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## timmy

63galaxie said:


> Well if you say it's not a Red then what do you want it to be. Ok for you its a rare Albino Piranha :laugh:


look white caribe on p-fury forums http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=141471
you don't no what you are talking about
[/quote]

It could be white from several factors.
1. Stressed
2. sleeping
3. Diet!


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## 63galaxie

NJKILLSYOU said:


> Well if you say it's not a Red then what do you want it to be. Ok for you its a rare Albino Piranha :laugh:


look white caribe on p-fury forums http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=141471
you don't no what you are talking about
[/quote]

It could be white from several factors.
1. Stressed
2. sleeping
3. Diet!
[/quote]

ALL OF THE ABOVE CAN'T BE IT BECAUSE THIS IS THE WAY HE AWAYS LOOKED AT MY BUDDYS HOUSE SINCE HE HAD IT 1 INCH AND IT WAS STILL WHITE AND WHEN I MEAN WHITE I SAY BRIGHT BRIGHT WHITE AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE TOP PIC


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## Trigga

rocker said:


> A Pristo or maybe an Eigenmanni


wha?
[/quote]
LOL he said its 1000%%% not a red belly so i gave him options


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## 63galaxie

Trigga said:


> A Pristo or maybe an Eigenmanni


wha?
[/quote]
LOL he said its 1000%%% not a red belly so i gave him options
[/quote]
don't need option just an id


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## BlackSunshine

You need something thats for sure. But I don't think anyone here can give you a kick in the ass over the Net.

1st off. RBP's have alot of variants. also known as deformations. That does include missing spots and lightened color. That will change drastically as it matures.

2nd. Your Serra and that RBP are not "FRIENDS". that statement only goes to show everyone here that you haven't the slightest clue about properly housing these fish. Is this a "Test" or a "co-Hab". If so take a min to actually read and you will find out that mixing these fish will end in the death of one or both of these fish.

So either take a decent picture if you want to continue your debate about what kind of fish you think you have. Or just call it whatever you want. since you don't seem to like any answers your getting here.


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## primetime3wise

your refusal to believe it is nothing more than a common rbp is fine, but trying to sell it in the canadian classifieds as a cariba is nothing short of a scam. i hope no one is gullible enough to pay $50 for it.

pt


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## JustJoshinYa

Red Belly Piranha, IMO, because its got all the signs of being a natteri the coloring of the tail fin, anal fin, spots mean nothing. if you would like to see what inbreeding can do then you might have a perfect example most likely it looks the way it does because its living with a rhom thinking every minute is going to be its last, and that faded spot does NOT MAKE IT A CARIBA, many reds can have humeral blemishes much darker than yours and not be caribe the people that have answered you know alot about piranha, alot more than you have displayed for us so i would listen to them and take their advice if not thats fine but dont argue,

Show us its not a red belly, all you have shown us is that it is a red belly.


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## RedBelly Dom

definitley not a redbelly


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## b_ack51

timmy said:


> Well if you say it's not a Red then what do you want it to be. Ok for you its a rare Albino Piranha :laugh:


look white caribe on p-fury forums http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=141471
you don't no what you are talking about
[/quote]

It could be white from several factors.
1. Stressed
2. sleeping
3. Diet!
[/quote]

Are you saying the red is not showing up cause the fish is stressed? Is this stress coming from the fact the red belly or pygo piranha is in the same tank as a serra rhombeus piranha? Please explain more.


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## the REASON

RedBelly Dom said:


> definitley not a redbelly


and you would be wrong.


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## BUBB$

RedBelly Dom said:


> definitley not a redbelly


HERE YOU GO!!! A COUPLE PICS OF RED BELLIES WITHOUT RED BELLY..


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## 63galaxie

BUBB$ said:


> definitley not a redbelly


HERE YOU GO!!! A COUPLE PICS OF RED BELLIES WITHOUT RED BELLY..
View attachment 130019

View attachment 130020

[/quote]
what size is it
[/quote]
look at all those dots, look at my pic, your fish looks nothin alike mine, mine is white with no black dot's weired i don't no why he is so white but it is a beautiful fish never seen no piranha like it


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## 63galaxie

[/quote]
what size is it

[/quote]
and look at the length from your reds the mouth to top fin pure red belly like all of my red looked now look at my pic of that one why is he like that shorter head that all normal reds and the steepness of its forhead and look at your red it is not steep at all just look like a normal red 
and that pic looks like you just turned the lights on him thats probly y the red belly is not showing


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## b_ack51

Can you get new and better pictures? Maybe instead of arguring with people on the internet, you could get better pictures for us and we can then give you the correct answer.


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## Kain

as already stated, nattereri's have many different morphs depending on geographical locations. Some species like the araguaia has a much larger head which is even larger than caribas. There are even some that have faint humeral spots and bright white coloration with red fins which closely resembles a cariba. I believe George had some pics of some that he caught while fishing. At first, everyone thought they were caribas until he confirmed that it was a nattereri. The fact that his head is not shaped like other red bellies and he doesnt have red or spots is not substantial evidence that it is not a red belly. Read Frank's webpage about his red belly diet and color morph. Also I believe he had a pic of a red belly that was nearly pure white because it was kept in a dark environment for an extended period of time. Quit telling people they dont know what they're talking about because they're telling you what you dont want to hear. Just because you dont want to believe it does not make them wrong.


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## Badrad1532

RBP if someone Buys it as a Caribe They got ripped, So it might be a Red it might not, At 3 1/2 inches its not worth fifty unless its a Piraya or a high Priced tern. SO sell it as a mystery fish and ask 35. Your not lying or Trying rip someone off.


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## 63galaxie

Badrad1532 said:


> RBP if someone Buys it as a Caribe They got ripped, So it might be a Red it might not, At 3 1/2 inches its not worth fifty unless its a Piraya or a high Priced tern. SO sell it as a mystery fish and ask 35. Your not lying or Trying rip someone off.


Thinking of keeping it just to see what it grows into or what it will look like when it about 6-7 inches


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## the REASON

Kain said:


> as already stated, nattereri's have many different morphs depending on geographical locations. Some species like the araguaia has a much larger head which is even larger than caribas. There are even some that have faint humeral spots and bright white coloration with red fins which closely resembles a cariba. I believe George had some pics of some that he caught while fishing. At first, everyone thought they were caribas until he confirmed that it was a nattereri. The fact that his head is not shaped like other red bellies and he doesnt have red or spots is not substantial evidence that it is not a red belly. Read Frank's webpage about his red belly diet and color morph. Also I believe he had a pic of a red belly that was nearly pure white because it was kept in a dark environment for an extended period of time. Quit telling people they dont know what they're talking about because they're telling you what you dont want to hear. Just because you dont want to believe it does not make them wrong.


quoted for truth.


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## piranha_guy_dan

well since everyone telling him its not a red belly i guess the only person left that will give him an answer that he might believe.............


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## bob351

this is ridiculous


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## soon2breed

galaxie you are making a fool out of yourself. I have had rbps like yours in the past. NO SPOTS, NO RED BELLY, just red anal fin. Let the fish grow and mature and it will get the red belly. There are many red bellies with no spots on them. If your ever not trying to rip anyone off on this forum you should go on to OPEFE.com and do some research before you try selling a baby red belly for $50


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## primetime3wise

aye, i think he's trying to make his case with his pocketbook more in mind.


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## 63galaxie

soon2breed said:


> galaxie you are making a fool out of yourself. I have had rbps like yours in the past. NO SPOTS, NO RED BELLY, just red anal fin. Let the fish grow and mature and it will get the red belly. There are many red bellies with no spots on them. If your ever not trying to rip anyone off on this forum you should go on to OPEFE.com and do some research before you try selling a baby red belly for $50


How I am making a fool out of myself I never seen a piranha with no spots or red on its belly thats why and not only that but the fish is a pearl white so I was wondering y it is like that 
I said it looks like a caribe but even caribe have spots and he is white just wondering why this fish is so white and it is not stress becuase it looked like this since it was 1 inch I was just looking for an answer but anyways I like this fish alot it is different then all red bellys

I am not mad that it is not a caribe i am happy this fish is different I just wanted you guy to check it out and help me id it if some eles here can show me a pic of a rbp like this one web pic or your own pic of a pearl white red belly
if anything I don't nobody that has one alike


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## BlackSunshine

http://opefe.com/oddities_in_pygocentrus.html

Do some reading.

Specifically I'd like to point out this picture.









In other words your P's mommy and daddy were probably brother and sister.


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## 63galaxie

BlackSunshine said:


> http://opefe.com/oddities_in_pygocentrus.html
> 
> Do some reading.
> 
> Specifically I'd like to point out this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words your P's mommy and daddy were probably brother and sister.
> [/quote
> 
> INBREEDING thats why it is white deformitie
> thanks sunshine for finding that can they be cousins or just bro and sis


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## BlackSunshine

I think the most important thing to take from this is your fish is more likley then not a RBP.


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## Dairy Whip

cool man never new that would happen


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## Dawgz

where are u located, if u wanna sell that oldball rbp, let me know


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## PARANHAZ69

Could someone post a pic of the mystery fish? I can't pull up the site. Thanks.


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## mashunter18

Pretty simple answer is look at the eyes, if the eyes are red/orange its red belly, cariba have clear eyes. Im not sure what size the fish is.


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## hastatus

1. The original photo shows a Serrasalmus species and a Pygocentrus nattereri. The P. nattereri is the main thrust of this topic.

2. Clear eyes are not limited to just P. cariba. However, the fish in the photo is NOT P. cariba, it is P. nattereri.

3. I'm amazed this topic has dragged on so long.

Conclusion: The fish is Pygocentrus nattereri.


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