# S. manueli



## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

It seems that almost everybody that has owned a manny has experienced death. You have people like Jonas and Craig Stable who are experienced piranha keepers who had their mannys die unexpectedly. There are numerous other keepers who have kept mannys w/ similiar results. Do mannys have a higher death rate in captivity?


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2006)

Yes they do. They are one of those fish it may be best leaving to the wild. Juveniles seem to do well but as they grow they do fall victim to unknown causes. Water chemistry, measurable, is usually fine.

They also ship terribly, proving they are a more delicate species than most. They never reach anywhere near their full size within a captive enviroment.

Shame really, they are a very nice fish.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

I agree that Manueli's seem to be a more sensitive species than most, if not all other piranha species. I mean, I've experienced it myself. I have to add however that until my manny got sick and died a few days later, he was perfectly healthy, very colorful, very active: his illness occurred literally over night, but before that I never had any problems with him. Apart from the fact that he was a picky eater, and only accepted shrimp, live fish and very sporadically some smelt: he did grow nicely however - some 1,25" per year.

Having said this, there are also examples of Manny's that do extremely well in captivity, imo. Fliptasciouz' Manny Sweettooth being the best example, as the pics below clearly illustrate:








03-2005









Now

I do have to add however that this is one of the very few examples known to me of a Manueli that starts to loose his juvenile Green Tiger looks in favor of an adult look. But damn, what a looker that specimen is


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

Ever since jonas broke the news of losing his manny then craig afterwards, i felt like i had to do something to prevent this from occuring to my manny. I made a few upgrades by adding more oxygen and maintaining an acidic tank which happens to be 6.6-6.8 for the past 5 months. Jonas was actually the first member that i asked here in piranha-fury about my Manueli diet. So far i am still using the same method of diet with an exception of adding some vitamin supplements and pellets for occational treat.

It's very unfortunate that one of the members here in p-fury from canada had also lost his manny (piranha_guy_dan) i believe he had his manny for almost a year and he was really attach to his manny as i am too to mine. Although my manny showing signs of growth i am still skeptical what will happen later on. Anything is possible so i am trying my best to prevent any unusual behaviour or sign of sickness from happening.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Jonas,
Thanks for the reply. So your manny showed totally no sign of sickness till basically then end? 
Im asking because if I cant get a small group of irritans right now, I have always wanted a manny. I just dont want to spend $150+ and end up with a dead fish in a few months/year







Any other info would be most appreciated









Flip,
Your manny looks AMAZING man. Ive heard that you have grown him out from a baby? What size did you get him at and how long have you had him? Some specfics on water would be appreciated as well. Ph/Gh/Kh?etc

Thanks

Sean


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

I have had my manny now for a year and no probs...........Not doing anything out of the ordinary with his tank either .

Judazz , 
My manny hasent lost his stripings and or any of his color , his colors are very vibrant , like a rainbow


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> I have had my manny now for a year and no probs...........Not doing anything out of the ordinary with his tank either .
> 
> Judazz ,
> My manny hasent lost his stripings and or any of his color , his colors are very vibrant , like a rainbow


Harley,
What kind of water are you keeping him in? Soft, slightly acidic? As I remember you have a larger manny, correct? Around the 8-9" range?


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> I have had my manny now for a year and no probs...........Not doing anything out of the ordinary with his tank either .
> 
> Judazz ,
> My manny hasent lost his stripings and or any of his color , his colors are very vibrant , like a rainbow


Harley,
What kind of water are you keeping him in? Soft, slightly acidic? As I remember you have a larger manny, correct? Around the 8-9" range?
[/quote]
10 incher







I would say my water is soft , right around 6.8 to 7.0 in his tank .








I see tiger stripes









Another photo


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

Exodus you should get a manny ! I've always wanted to get one but here it's impossible to get


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

matc said:


> Exodus you should get a manny ! I've always wanted to get one but here it's impossible to get


I know... but a group of irritans would look BADASS!







If I cant get my irritans this go around im pretty sure im gonna get a manny... or maybe a geryi... Damn... Decesions.

Harley...
10"?







Nice manny!


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

you want to get a shoal of irritans ? that would be cool but very risky no ?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

matc said:


> you want to get a group
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will have numerous hospital tanks running so if something goes wrong... Risky? Ya, mixing any serra is. Will it work? Dunno, but its something that I want to try. If it doesnt work, ill just have a few extra irritans on my hand.


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> Flip,
> Your manny looks AMAZING man. Ive heard that you have grown him out from a baby? What size did you get him at and how long have you had him? Some specfics on water would be appreciated as well. Ph/Gh/Kh?etc
> 
> Thanks
> ...


My manny was purchased on November 22, 2004 in bigals aquarium, so that's a 1 1/2 years old. He was around 5-5.5" in my visual perception (notice the pic on my avatar. That was his first picture and was just taken out of the bag).

I have the ph level around 6.6-6.8 for about 5 months now and as for gh/kh i haven't test them for awhile now. I use to monitor those at the beginning but my manny has never shown any discomfort so far aside from scratching himself when my nitrate level rises or algae starting to spread. Once the Manny accustom to you then you can provide a strong current(make sure you monitor) and experiment feeding different fish meat and supply some vitamin supplement.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

I have to agree with Jonas here, I think Mannies are definitly more sensitive to water conditions. Alot of people say they need more oxygen but that certainly wasnt the case in the death of mine, and dont think it was with Jonas either so not sure if thats so true.

I think the death of mine came about due to him being a picky eater, he would eat like a pig sometimes then not eat for months. And when he did get ill (down to bacteria that is present in all tanks causing an internal fungus) he just didnt have the weight on him to pull through it and died.

It wouldnt stop me getting another one though (and will do in the not too distant future) but I will be taking some extre precautions next time. Such as extra filtration (even though had more than enough on old tank!), UV, bare tank so can maintain conditions, etc.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Get a manny if you can't get an Irritans from George. Still the one piranha I haven't seen in person. (I believe he has one 6 incher left)

And Geryi are sweet as hell. Definately my favorite piranha.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> Jonas,
> Thanks for the reply. So your manny showed totally no sign of sickness till basically then end?
> Im asking because if I cant get a small group of irritans right now, I have always wanted a manny. I just dont want to spend $150+ and end up with a dead fish in a few months/year
> 
> ...


He was fine until one sad morning, when I found him all skittish (which surprised me, as normally he was very inquisitive, even downright agressive towards me). Later it progressively got worse, and by the end of the day he seemed to have partially lost his balance and coordination. The next days he remained more or less stable (I had switched off the lights and covered his tank with a sleeping bag to minimize outside influences), but then on the fourth evening he again lost his balance and coordination, which got worse and worse. The next morning he was laying on the gravel, breathing slowly and heavily, practically dead. So I decided to take him out of the tank and euthanized him - worst day in my fish keeping life









View attachment 90975

Taken the night before the whole ordeal started, still
blissfully ignorant of what would happen the next day.

View attachment 90976

Doesn't look like a fish that would be more dead than
alive the next day, does it?

I have no clue what put him down. He had a large scar on top of his head, behind the eyes, where he once was bitten by another Manny he used to share his tank with. But that seemed not to affect him in any way, other than that it didn't really made him any prettier.
I doubt it was oxygen, as from the very first day I had one filter stirring up the surface. And why would that all of a sudden be an issue after two years?
Ammonia and nitrItes tested 0, nitrAtes less than 15ppm (filter capacity was 10x tank contents, and suitable for a tank 3-4x the size Manny lived in), and also phosphates were virtually absent. So was it bad water? I doubt it? I did fed some smelt the evening before he started acting all weird, and he only ate parts of it, so a couple of pieces remained in the tank overnight. But still: I had done that countless times before, so why would it now be an issue all of a sudden.
I tend to agree with Craig S. that I think an internal parasite was the cause: my Manny too was a picky eater, and sometimes he wouldn't eat for weeks, or just tiny amounts, while during other periods he ate a whole deal more. He never was a great eater, but still had an above-average growth rate, so I don't think he starved, but instead was weakened (he went through a self-imposed vasting period the weeks before he died), caught some parasite or bacteria, and was too weak too recover from that.
But that's all speculation...

I kept my Manny at 80-82 degrees F, at a pH of 7,5 - never had any issues with the water, so I think it's doubtful it would practically overnight, become an issue all of a sudden.
He was extremely active, swimming for as long as the lights were on, very interactive and agressive towards me, and had amazing colors, so it came very unexpected.

View attachment 90974

Two months before his death...

Could it happen again, or did I just have a stroke of bad luck? I honestly don't know. But would that prevent me from getting another Manny again one day? No way!!! I've never kept any other Serra, but if I had the choice between a Manueli or any other given Serrasalmus-species, I'd go with the Manny without hesitation! They're more difficult, but all the more worth the extra effort!!!
And seeing all these amazing specimen in this thread only adds to the urge to get me a new Manny


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

Well said jonas







also wanted to add to this topic, that it can also vary on Manueli's characterisitcs as it's has to all species of piranha. Well when i had my Manueli introduced to his 30 gallon tank with a gold spilo on the other side of the divider. He was already bashing through the divider after 8 hours in the tank. It amaze me how he handle himself to a new environment and eventually i had to sell the gold







. After 2 months had past, we had to move and that would include my manny that is being transferred to a 40 gallon breeder tank which i used the same water and filter(Eheim pro 2 2026 and penguin 330) in the 30 gallon tank. I was afraid that he'll be stressed when he was being moved to another environment, and again my assumptions came up wrong again and that really drawn my devotion to this fish. It may have been a misconception about the extra oxygen but rather implying about the changes or upgrades in their tank as they appreciate these from their owner.

I would definitely agree that Manueli are really sensitive and prone to diseases if water isn't monitored or taken care properly.Through 1 1/2 years of experience my manny had suffered twice with achor worms and a pop-eye. Well pop eye was actually my fault due to overdosing salt and it was treated 6-7 months ago. Since then everythings great with my manny, hopefully this doesn't discourage you of getting one but they are sensitive to water conditions as my tanks been stable at 6.6-6.8, 0 nitrites/ammonia and 10-20 nitrates and isn't a beginner species. Also algae bloom also creates stress to them as well as i noticed he was scratching himself to the driftwood when i was woke up from my nap then tested my nitrates that had gone up to 40-80 which then lead to anchor worm. I tried adding more plecos to prevent from algae to bloom as i've been busy from work to eliminate algae but the result were casualties even if i added hiding spot, they will hide the entire time in one spot and rot due to loss of appetite.

When feeding My manueli's, they do tend to get be picky at times but overall he prefers company(interact with them by making the fish chase your finger) and must be fed the variety so you would develop a strong bond between the owner and the fish. Heres an example as a picky eater that my manny mainly fed with shrimps back then and lately he'll ignore them, instead he goes after the tilapia or fillet that he'll gulped in a second. I had gone through alot with this manny, from treating him through those visible diseases that was mention, and his constant killing spree of danios, convicts, crayfish and plecos







. One thing to keep in mind is that they are ABSOLUTELY NOT A BEGINNER piranha as i've invested alot on this fish, even though my expercience was only a year before i got him but with the right resources(piranha-fury members and site) and dedication i believe anyone can own these magnificent fish.


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