# Serrasalmus maculatus - Breeding



## hastatus

I checked on their tank an hour ago and discovered the eggs were finally laid in the breeding material furnished by Hollywood. Arnold has been privately following my reports over the last couple of days. I suspected something was up and more so when I used a stick to check the guarded area......the fish tried to bite the stick. Photos were taken of the male and the female S. maculatus. I have photos of the eggs, though not very clear, but clear enough to be seen.

I'm sure some of you will ask what kind of care did they get.....my answer is NONE. This tank was pretty much ignored except for feeding time in the evening and replacement of water when the level dropped. There is no heater in the tank and just an outside room oil-filled room radiator is used. I have no water parameters nor water temperature guide to give you. Point is, this tank received no special care and the fish bred.

1. Male guarding nest.

2. male and Female doing the wildthing.

3. eggs (you'll have to look closely) This is the best I can do for now without disturbing the male.


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## hastatus

Additional egg photo. Once they hatch in a day or 2. They'll be transferred to a holding tank. Then more photos will follow if all goes well.


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## Grosse Gurke

But Frank....what about the wet/dry simulation you must have done? What about the daily water changes?









Oh well...Congrats big fella!!


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## hastatus

I'm retired, I leave that mambo jumbo to the young crowd that knows more.







Besides, I think someone forgot to tell the fish they had to follow a certain formula.


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## KrazyCrusader




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## rchan11

That's wonderful Frank...Keep us updated.


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## hastatus

Ummmmmmm the fish were going to use the coconut fiber that I purchased at the store and had been in there for some time. The spawning mat you are making a fuss over was stuck in there just for the helluva it over the coconut fibers. Did that make the fish spawn? Nope. Just cause you sit on a park bench don't mean some gal is gonna make love to you.


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## hastatus

> KrazyCrusader Posted Today, 05:45 PM
> 
> You guys are so funny... Congrats again though anyway!! Good job!!
> 
> GG someday you will figure out that Criticizing other members of P-Fury doesn't make you look cool and will make people who frequent the site hesitant to even ask questions or offer advise because you guys just keep giving them sh*t. You are the last person that should be criticizing anyone.


Criticizing who?


> grosse gurke Posted Today, 05:20 PM
> But Frank....what about the wet/dry simulation you must have done? What about the daily water changes?
> 
> Oh well...Congrats big fella!!


He was making a joke. Look it up in the dictionary. Also look around the internet, plenty of things that fit a joke are out there too.


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## KrazyCrusader




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## mashunter18

Cool deal Frank.







You can really tell, look how dark the male is.

Wondering what size tank, and how many macs you have in there??


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## hastatus

The tank is a 55g. It is divided by approx. 20g by a plexglass. A small P. piraya sits on one side of the divider in the smaller gallonage. 3 S. maculatus are in that tank. 1 was given to me by Hollywood, 2 were brought to me by a Portland hobbyist a few months ago. The one that Hollywood gave me is the female that we picked up at a pet store in Portland. I was with him when we got it.

So in a matter of speaking the fish bred in about 35g's of water.


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## hastatus

Here is the tank setup. It looks nasty with the algae, but that's how I do it (old style) I'm not into appearances and don't care what other think of the esthetics of it. The P. natt's that bred for me were in this same type of set up. What made this with the S. mac's unique is the tank was neglected as I stated except for adding water. The water is pristine inside with a light tea color because of the tannins from the coconut fiber. I don't recommend everyone do this to their fish tank. But if you are serious about breeding fishes, sometimes too much care is worse than no care.


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## Death in #'s

frank this is an amazing thread 
and congrats
whats the temp of the tank with just the oil heater


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## hastatus

Honestly, I have no idea. I suppose I should buy a thermometer.


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## HOLLYWOOD

Congrats Frank!

As far as KC I sense a bit of jealousy. First of all I will repeat something you(KC) made public : you never attempted to breed nor own breeding pair of piranhas. With that said I can see how your vast experience has affected this forum.

Second quoting me from another thread and applying it to this thread has no relation at all. I stated "Not a preferred method", I did not say do not use. I breed red bellies to help finance my hobby so high yields = more money. Frank does not share the same view, its more for information collection.

Third let this be your first public warning. I had enough of your silly mind games.


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## hastatus

Actually, its his 2nd (first was from me).



> KrazyCrusader Posted Today, 06:03 PM
> What i get is, if you keep derailing this thread with your nonsense posts, you are not going to be in my PSCI forum.


I removed his toxic remarks and stuck my warning in there.


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## Death in #'s

hastatus said:


> Honestly, I have no idea. I suppose I should buy a thermometer.
> 
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> 
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> [snapback]872297[/snapback]​










if u want i will buy you a $1.50 stick on one and mail it to you 
cause i know you have a hard time going to the store
















jk


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## hastatus

:laugh:














Just for the sake of this thread, I'll buy one tonight or tomorrow when I go into town. Im somewhat curious too. And Hollywood is right, I'm in this to gather data and information for OPEFE and you all. I'll leave the ego's to those that want to write books.


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## shoe997bed263

congrads that is great to hear. the more p's breeding the better. hope my irritans r as in the mood as yours r. keep us posted


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## hastatus

> shoe997bed263 Posted Today, 08:31 PM
> congrads that is great to hear. the more p's breeding the better. hope my irritans r as in the mood as yours r. keep us posted


Just follow the advice and reads carefully what Hollywood tells you. He is a modest man but knows more about breeding p's in his little finger than some people do on their entire web site forum!


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## mantis

great news


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## Xenon

Nice job Frank! Nice job Hollywood. Lets see how this develops!


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## 33truballa33

glad they spawned under the conditions u set forth on opefe.. congrats
http://opefe.com/Breed_Smacu.html


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## KrazyCrusader




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## 33truballa33

hastatus said:


> Just follow the advice and reads carefully what Hollywood tells you. He is a modest man but knows more about breeding p's in his little finger than some people do on their entire web site forum!
> [snapback]872502[/snapback]​


hmm... hopefully ur talkin about p fury casue uhm if not thats another cheap shot ur taking at that forum and of course u will deny it .. y must u b so childish about this?? 
u talk about posting relavant stuff and u turn around an say this.. i doubt u used some of ur scientific knowledge to reach this conclusion.. u bred the macs good job no need to take cheap shots.. seriously... remember whos method u effen ripped off.. and dont even try to deny it seriously.. u went against so much info u put out... with such hypocracy u should b in a suit with those politicians trying to outlaw p's in oregon... how much would it hurt to just fess up and tell the truth or at least be consistant...


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## KrazyCrusader




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## KrazyCrusader




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## Xenon

The only people I see "battling" here are KC and 33trebulla whatever. Get over it guys.


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## KrazyCrusader

nevermind


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## hastatus

> ruballa33 Posted Today, 09:56 PM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Jan 31 2005, 07:34 PM)
> Just follow the advice and reads carefully what Hollywood tells you. He is a modest man but knows more about breeding p's in his little finger than some people do on their entire web site forum!
> 
> hmm... hopefully ur talkin about p fury casue uhm if not thats another cheap shot ur taking at that forum and of course u will deny it .. y must u b so childish about this??
> u talk about posting relavant stuff and u turn around an say this.. i doubt u used some of ur scientific knowledge to reach this conclusion.. u bred the macs good job no need to take cheap shots.. seriously... *remember whos method u effen ripped off.. and dont even try to deny it seriously.. *u went against so much info u put out... with such hypocracy u should b in a suit with those politicians trying to outlaw p's in oregon... how much would it hurt to just fess up and tell the truth or at least be consistant...


You are clueless aren't you.







I would be more than happy to disprove every bit of what you just wrote. Except I don't release personal PM's even from your pgod. Suffice it to say, I have plenty pm's from many people asking for assistence on breeding p's. If I were you, I'd back off while you are still here. You have no idea how stupid you are appearing to everyone.



> Xenon Posted Today, 10:32 PM
> The only people I see "battling" here are KC and 33trebulla whatever. Get over it guys.


I agree Mike, his twin makes less sense than this one.


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## hastatus

On second thought, its time you little dudes wake up:



> QUOTE I am scared!!!!, Mar 4 2004, 09:26 AM
> The behavior is already there, to disturb them may not be a good idea. However, you can remove one fish at time. Leave it alone for a period of time, then remove the next fish and so and so forth. The idea behind it is to cause as little disturbance as possible. Introduction of a net might cause the potential pair to quit trying to breed. Its something you have to consider.
> 
> Water changes as you have been doing is like rainy season, so yes, it does come to an end. I would cut back to about 15-20% of what you are already doing. Then taper off. Keep the introduced water just a couple degrees cooler than the tank water.
> 
> Thank you&#8230;. You always make me think. You have much wisdom. The concept of a net stopping the behavior was never conceived. You are brilliant. The colony will remain the same. I notice the pair guarding an area last night. First it was just the male. Now both fish have become territorial of the area.
> 
> This is the most important project now. I sincerely hope to have success. If they breed in my basement, you and your friend will get credit for informing about the natural biotope. I never forgot our agreement. You will also get 12 fish. Your methods of microscopic sexing may finally be employed. My USB microscope just sits waiting. Perhaps I can send microscopic pics to you, and you can sharpen me on the sexing.
> 
> These fish are doing what many people's post reflects. I am glad to see the pairing and shallow pit. They appear to transport rocks a distance, or select their nest bottom. My bedding is very complex. The only way the rocks could get to the bottom of where they dug, is to be transported by them. This is the 1st time I Have ever set up multiple beddings. I wonder if they always select the rock to go in the bottom. Perhaps we can talk on the phone Friday or Saturday. I have a lot to share with you&#8230;
> 
> Thanks for staying informative, and being a friend. I am truly sorry for my defensive personality toward others.
> 
> QUOTE Nov 6 2003, 12:55 PM
> I'm not sure what you are proposing. Have you spawned this species before? If not, then what you are suggesting is a "guess".
> 
> SpiloCF is solely a common name. The species could be one of two known species; lessor name: S. sanchezi, possibly: S. altispinis.
> 
> QUOTE
> I would like you to review this before I post it... I don have one of my crazy comparasin metaphores.... Here is what I proposed to post>>>
> 
> Do you have any pics of these fish? The spiloCF appears to be a diversified classification&#8230; Mine were the red throated&#8230; I had a really hard time keeping them together&#8230; How long have you had the fish in the tank????
> 
> To spawn them guys will take a bit of time possibly 6-8 months&#8230; First you will have to let the fish be fish&#8230; They need to truly acclimate to the home aquarium and your tap waters&#8230; Pecking order will have to be established also&#8230; It is my belief that the fish need to spend a minimum of 3 months in the aquarium with each other, before adjusting and controlling the water parameters&#8230; If you can get a neutral regulator and chlorine remover, I would take that route. If you can keep the PH @ 7.0 that should be great&#8230; If not slightly acidic is better than the alkaline side&#8230;Get some hardy plant and subdue the lighting&#8230;The tank needs to always have an assortment of live food&#8230; Ghost shrimp, goldfish, angels, barbs; what ever you can get a good deal on&#8230;Just keep diversified food&#8230; Try to get the fish on shrimp also, and lower all water temperature to about 76&#8230;Mixture of black and dark brown gravel may help&#8230; Uncertain on color stimuli from gravel&#8230;
> 
> Successful shoaling and acceptance to the home aquarium is just the beginning&#8230; It will be a long hard road, but you will learn so much more about the fish behavior, than just starring at one in a tank&#8230;This is the only sound advice I can give you now&#8230; I am in the same situation&#8230; I am attempting to shoal S.Manueli&#8230; Shoaling and acceptance to the new environment is critical&#8230;.
> 
> Fish are like people with there own personalities, and remembrance of home&#8230; If someone were to snatch you out of your house, and throw you in a room filled with sulfurous gas and pepper spray would your first thought be to multiply???? Over time if you don't die, you will adapt to the new environment, and maybe reproduce then&#8230; Or you could forever be pissed and rebel&#8230;. I believe this to be the case with piranhas&#8230;.
> 
> While your fish are being fish, watch them closely&#8230;Study water hardness&#8230; The relationship between KH and PH will be necessary in the future&#8230;To spawn them everything has to be balanced, and shifts to a bare minimum&#8230;
> 
> I had a very partial success&#8230; I managed to get the red-throated of ruby reds to shoal and generate eggs, but nothing hatch&#8230; The 2 witnesses to my partial success won't say a word...I posted long ago that I spawned them but chose not to talk about it, unless I can duplicate it&#8230; That was when my ex broke up with me&#8230; She poisoned some of my fish tanks, and turned the electric off so, I was unable to turn it back on&#8230;. I don't know much about what happened that's why I chose to not discuss it&#8230; But I got a guy asking&#8230; I don't have many sound answers that can lead to a spawn&#8230; I was forced to sell the parents, and never got 1 fry to swim&#8230;I lost thousands of $$$ in fish and property&#8230; The woman set out to destroy me&#8230;
> 
> Back then I was reckless, and nothing was monitored&#8230; I can't even say what my PH was&#8230; Sad but true&#8230; Now that I think about it, I can't give the guy any sound advice&#8230; I truly don't have any data, so I can't put together a legitimate hypothesis&#8230; What should my reply be???? If I ignore it, I'm sure Gross Gurk will comment extensively on it&#8230;


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## hastatus

And there are many more where this came from. So the next time you think I'm learning from somebody else, I'd advice you pull your head out of your ass and find out WHOM you are writing to!


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## 33truballa33

[quote name='hastatus' date='Jan 31 2005, 09:35 PM']
You are clueless aren't you.







I would be more than happy to disprove every bit of what you just wrote. Except I don't release personal PM's even from your pgod. Suffice it to say, I have plenty pm's from many people asking for assistence on breeding p's. If I were you, I'd back off while you are still here. You have no idea how stupid you are appearing to everyone.

frank wtf are u talking about... my pGod huh?? im sorry but im monotheistic. i can care less how stupid i am appearing because i can care less about what my "online reputation" is. u may be high up in this p fury hierarchy but u are not consistant in ur themes. i can honestly care less if i get banned honestly.. i just want people to realize that u are not consistant in ur posts as myself and KC have pointed out.and im not going to back off.. am i tredding on thin ice for callin u out on ur flip flopping.. haha i almost sound like bush calling kerry out on his flip flopping nature... hmmm i see a parallel here... and as for ur long quote from SC that really doesnt hold much weight on this topic but shows that alan was a newbie at one time.. i apologize if not all of us came into the hobby with the knowledge u were born with... am i the one that needs to pull their head out of their ass?? maybe so but ur the one that needs to be knocked off ur high horse.. yes u did a lot for the hobby but that does not give u the right to bash the knowledge present on its site or to make it look like sum lil rock on the beach of p fury. i may be a newbie to piranhas but im no newbie to life and i can tell that u crave attention and cant stand to be called out or anything of that nature.. u post with such cockyness and talk with such a condescending tone that it makes it so noticable.... but wuteva to each its own.. mayb u should try to watch a little bit of the chappelle show and learn how to keep it real... it doesnt hurt at all i promise... and on that note....


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## 33truballa33

hmmmm breeding materials sure do look familiar


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## 33truballa33

oh yeah heres something else for u... y is this post http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...23&hl=gold&st=0
prior to ur pm ??/ just wondering

oh yeah and this http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...opic=9575&hl=... look the newbie knows how to search :laugh:

and here http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...wtopic=9575&hl=


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## hastatus

1. DLS the material you are trying to make a case for was originally used by Jim Smith Lurkin' in the Weeds to breed P. cariba in back in the 90's. I've been aware of it for years. Its also used for killifishes. Its no big secret. Your links prove nothing. If you think putting that in my tank for one night made the S. maculatus breed you are clueless and an idiot. Anyone that has Pm'd me for breeding material has always been told by me to use coconut fiber or DLS .....years before your mentor showed up on the scene. I'm very certain I have one of his PM's or emails in file. Once I find it, I will post it here so that you can read for yourself who told him what the material is.

2. Look at the date of the text when that conversation took place.

3. I will remind you again truballa, you are the person who brought this on by accusing me of ripping off your friend on information. Fact is, I proved the opposite and the rest you are posting here is smoke. And your wasting this forums time. Enjoy it while you can. Tomorrow your threads will be gone.


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## 33truballa33

hastatus said:


> 1. DLS the material you are trying to make a case for was originally used by Jim Smith Lurkin' in the Weeds to breed P. cariba in back in the 90's. I've been aware of it for years. Its also used for killifishes. Its no big secret. Your links prove nothing. If you think putting that in my tank for one night made the S. maculatus breed you are clueless and an idiot. Anyone that has Pm'd me for breeding material has always been told by me to use coconut fiber or DLS .....years before your mentor showed up on the scene. I'm very certain I have one of his PM's or emails in file. Once I find it, I will post it here so that you can read for yourself who told him what the material is.
> 
> 2. Look at the date of the text when that conversation took place.
> 
> 3. I will remind you again truballa, you are the person who brought this on by accusing me of ripping off your friend on information. Fact is, I proved the opposite and the rest you are posting here is smoke. And your wasting this forums time. Enjoy it while you can. Tomorrow your threads will be gone.
> 
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> [snapback]872764[/snapback]​


1. here read ur own words "I have to agree with the "messy" part. Much of what I have written is based on accidently spawning in plants. Which is usually the case with hobbyists that aren't even trying to breed them. Semi-pro's use everything from yarn to bare tanks. There really is no prefered method other than what your fish decides is comfortable for them. Hollywood is right in every count. The best formula is KISS (keep it simple stupid).:laugh:" .... so u mean to tell me that once u added the material they didnt breed instantly??damn







.. oh yeah taht isnt DLS because that isnt waht SC used and isnt wut is pictured in his pictures... 
2. the dates on the threads i posted come prior to the pm's

3. accusing? or making public ur ripping of my friend. and why delete ?:? are u scared or trying to hid something?


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## hastatus

Actually, what I'm reading is that you are making yourself into a total fool. You have a penchant for_ taking things out of context._ Which is what you are doing here to make your faulty case. Plus you don't know a thing about P biology much less how they spawn. I'll save your words so other members can read how little you know. Anyway, I'm going to visit my new parent fishes and then on to bed. Enjoy arguing with yourself. Tommorrow is another day.



> 33truballa33 Posted Today, 12:22 AM .....
> 
> 1. here read ur own words "I have to agree with the "messy" part. Much of what I have written is based on accidently spawning in plants. Which is usually the case with hobbyists that aren't even trying to breed them. Semi-pro's use everything from yarn to bare tanks. There really is no prefered method other than what your fish decides is comfortable for them. Hollywood is right in every count. The best formula is KISS (keep it simple stupid).:laugh:" .... so u mean to tell me that once u added the material they didnt breed instantly??damn .. oh yeah taht isnt DLS because that isnt waht SC used and isnt wut is pictured in his pictures...
> 2. the dates on the threads i posted come prior to the pm's
> 
> 3. accusing? or making public ur ripping of my friend. and why delete ?:? are u scared or trying to hid something?


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## hastatus

PS: I mentioned deleting them because you are making yourself so foolish, you may not want people to read it in the morning. I was trying to do you a favor.


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## KrazyCrusader

<Waves White flag>


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## DonH

I don't need to help Frank fight his battles and I rarely get into arguments like this but I'm having trouble understanding why the hell you two (KC, 33...) are here???? If you are trying to learn, and you feel the other site offers more, and the owner of that site is obviously the pioneer of piranha breeding than why the hell are you guys here typing trash? It's obvious that this site has nothing to offer you guys so why not go to that site for your enjoyment and knowledge seeking?



> hmmm i see a parallel here... and as for ur long quote from SC that really doesnt hold much weight on this topic but shows that alan was a newbie at one time.. i apologize if not all of us came into the hobby with the knowledge u were born with...


I'm pretty sure that Frank wasn't "born" with the knowledge... What he does have is years in the hobby under his belt much of which was spent studying piranha from/with qualified scientists in the field. Unlike him, I have learned about fish by killing every fish species known to the hobby for the past 25 years or so.







I doubt 2 or 3 years in keeping piranhas qualifies Alan as a pro and no longer a newbie regardless of how much "science" he spouts. If you want to learn, that's fine... In time, you will read this all over and see what fools you guys really were (are).


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## KrazyCrusader




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## Xenon

Damn, this newspaper never has anything new. Same old BS.


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## Fido

^ lol. awesome project hastatus, seriously kickass! Cant wait to see results!


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## Sheriff Freak

IM AMAZED AND IMPRESSED....... I WANT A MAC I LOVE THE WAY THEY LOOK!!! EXCELLENT WORK


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## hastatus

KC and I will be talking on the phone. A phone call does resolve some things and he did ask for that opportunity and I granted it. For now, concerning KC, he deserves the chance to resolve this with me instead of text messages that are devoid of any real emotion.

As for Truballa33

This entire episode began with my remarks to Hollywood; _Just follow the advice and reads carefully what Hollywood tells you. He is a modest man but knows more about breeding p's in his little finger than some people do on their entire web site forum! _ It was a compliment to a fellow hobbyist and 2 members, 1 in particular 33truballa took it to the extreme. In his puny mind, I was writing about his buddy at the other forum. How simple minded and narrowed focus. He then mixed the issues with the Oregon pirana statute problems with this. I brought up that truballa33 should look at the date of my pm message to his buddy SC because it was a recent date 2004. Not quite a year ago. Amazing how someone can suddenly become an expert on breeding fishes in such a short period of time, while ignoring who was the person responsible for giving them advice. And I'll quote his words right here since you ignored it: _ If they breed in my basement, you and your friend will get credit for informing about the natural biotope._ That pretty much says it all. SC, to his credit was trying to learn and at that point in time was greatful for the knowledge he was gathering from me. I ripped nothing off of him. When he found out I decided to post breeding information at OPEFE, he was upset about it. Why? Don't know, except that information would not longer be exclusive to just him. I wanted all hobbyist to get the information from field research, so EVERYONE could try their hand at breeding fishes. One last thing before I end my remarks. Read that PM carefully, it also answers questions to the so-called breeding S. sanchezi (SPILO CF). The fishes dropped eggs, that doesn't mean they "bred". Just means the eggs were dropped unfertilized. If the eggs were fertilized then we would not be having this discussion. Did the fishes breed for him? No idea, according to what I read, No. I complimented SC many times for breeding S. maculatus. I still do, but it is not the first time (and he WAS NOT, the first person to do it) and it won't be the last time for someone else to breed them. I'm glad he is sharing his own experiences with breeding that single species. That part is good for the hobby. Which is why Truballa33 you need to stay there. You really don't fit in at PFURY and that is my opinion.



> Xenon Posted Today, 01:40 AM
> Damn, this newspaper never has anything new. Same old BS.


 And this surprizes you?











> Sheriff Freak Posted Today, 07:48 AM
> IM AMAZED AND IMPRESSED....... I WANT A MAC I LOVE THE WAY THEY LOOK!!! EXCELLENT WORK
> Filo Posted Today, 02:02 AM
> ^ lol. awesome project hastatus, seriously kickass! Cant wait to see results!


 Thanks you 2!








In either case, my macs were busy last night before I went to bed.


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## hastatus

> I'm pretty sure that Frank wasn't "born" with the knowledge... What he does have is years in the hobby under his belt much of which was spent studying piranha from/with qualified scientists in the field. *Unlike him, I have learned about fish by killing every fish species known to the hobby for the past 25 years or so.* I doubt 2 or 3 years in keeping piranhas qualifies Alan as a pro and no longer a newbie regardless of how much "science" he spouts. If you want to learn, that's fine... In time, you will read this all over and see what fools you guys really were (are).


Actually DonH, I killed quite a few fishes myself. Some of these guys whining were not even born or probably in diapers when I first started mixing species. Certainly, they were not around when I did the first Pygocentrus cold-water testing in 1966.


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## hastatus

Since Azuma was mentioned and his name was taken out of context of what is published at OPEFE. Let me post it here for all to read. Points are highlited:



> FROM FRANK MAGALLANES:
> In writing this condensed version of the Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine account of Hiroshe Azuma breeding S. gibbus (= S. maculatus) I focused primarily on the actual method and equipment used. It is well-known today that S. maculatus can be bred in smaller containers (more than 45 gallons) and in the wild are found in small groups of 20 or more individuals. This does not mean in your aquarium you can do the same thing. Caution must be exercised or you could wind up with just a few specimens or just one! The spawning of this species is not rare, but will take a hobbyists as much effort to meet certain conditions like those for breeding P. nattereri. S. maculatus spawns year-round just like P. nattereri and almost anyone can do it if they follow certain steps. *One other thing to consider is S. maculatus is from the Rio Paraguay, Rio Parana (Paraguay and Argentina). According to OPEFE water chemistry page, natural water and chemistry would be as follows:
> 
> WATER: pH 6.5-7.5 (7.0), 4-14 dH (8). Although in nature, the Paraguay piranhas can sometimes tolerate water temperatures as low as 59°F (15°C), it should be kept in water with a temperature from 70-77°F (21-25°C). *This information would also be helpful if you are attempting breed the Paraguay Ternetzi (P. nattereri). H. Azuma used a much higher temperature to faciliate spawning. It's a given that warmer water makes a fish become far aggitated and prone to breeding. *With hobbyists I have spoken to (in particular Tony Ostazewitz, circa 1997), he informed me that his S. spilopleura (= S. maculatus) was breeding at the lower temperature end (77- 80F). *Tony also used a homemade spawning mop and bare tank. The fishes were egg scatters, using the spawning mop pretty much made the task easier to keep the eggs confined to one area. *Many aquarists go to a lot of trouble to set up water chemistry and aquascaping to get their fish to spawn. The problem seems to be to get them in the mood and try to simulate (and stimulate) their spawning season. While it is true that most fish spawn seasonally, it is not necessarily because it is compulsory for them, only that the habitat regulates when they can go. If the habitat allows continuous spawning, most commonly in hydroelectric reservoirs, then the fish will take advantage of that. An example is the Brazilian piranha Serrasalmus spilopleura, which changes its behaviour to spawn continuously in reservoirs.*
> 
> Good luck and happy fishes!


I never said I followed Azuma or anyone else. Some people just can't read.


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## MR HARLEY

TruBalla, 
Were cool Right ....Do me a Favor ....Shut it down bro ....
Its not good what you are doing, please stop ...

Harley...


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## 33truballa33

my simple puny mind mixed this up with the piranha issue in ur state?? if u went back and re read my post u would find that i was making a connection between ur incosistancy to that of a politician...plz show me a post that says SC is a breeding expert from his mouth.. he repeatedly tells me that he is no expert and i know he isnt... and thats all im going to say because i respect harleys wish.. im done


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## hastatus

> 33truballa33 Posted Today, 10:24 AM
> my simple puny mind mixed this up with the piranha issue in ur state?? if u went back and re read my post u would find that i was making a connection between ur incosistancy to that of a politician...plz show me a post that says SC is a breeding expert from his mouth.. he repeatedly tells me that he is no expert and i know he isnt... and thats all im going to say because i respect harleys wish.. im done


Actually truballa33, SC would be considered an expert on breeding S.maculatus. No one is denying him that. Just like no one should be denying Hollywood is an expert on breeding P. nattereri. What you have is a blind alligence and not understanding 1) the material at OPEFE 2) over reacting to statements and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

What I am demonstrating here is, that you are twisting printed words and ignoring the obvious. So its good you are going on your way. Let PFURY be PFURY and let the members in this forum enjoy THEIR accomplishments. Come back when you have matured more.


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## KrazyCrusader

Frank?
It's half way through the day already here and there aren't any updates? Is there any change in the Tank?


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## hastatus

> KrazyCrusader Posted Today, 11:07 AM
> Frank?
> It's half way through the day already here and there aren't any updates? Is there any change in the Tank?


I'm on Oregon time, not East coast. Nothing to report, been too busy with other matters. Fish are on the back burner to worry about and they are only checked 2 or 3x's a day if that at all (and I'm not talking about the maculatus, before that is misconstrued). When I have something to post I will.


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## KrazyCrusader

Fair enough.


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## HOLLYWOOD

Been busy with work and preparing to present the hobbyist side and Franks side on SB 125 at Salem Oregon tomorrow.

I dont have the time to defend these silly statements nor do I have the patience to deal with repetitive apologies. Comments were made and taken out of context. Your not here to add constructive comments your here to play your childish comparisons. This is my last and final public warning you either behave and constructively add to this forum or get booted out. *PERIOD*!


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## KrazyCrusader

hastatus said:


> KC and I will be talking on the phone. A phone call does resolve some things and he did ask for that opportunity and I granted it. For now, concerning KC, he deserves the chance to resolve this with me instead of text messages that are devoid of any real emotion.
> [snapback]873054[/snapback]​


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## hastatus

KC:

The phone call resolved the issue with me, not the issues of your posts on this forum. Take the warning and let it be.


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## mantis

this fantastic thread turned sour so quick.

Please no more









down with negativity


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## KrazyCrusader

mantis said:


> this fantastic thread turned sour so quick.
> 
> Please no more
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> down with negativity
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> [snapback]873739[/snapback]​


OMG I couldn't agree more with you Mantis.
No more.


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## MR.FREEZ

hastatus said:


> Actually DonH, I killed quite a few fishes myself. Some of these guys whining were not even born or probably in diapers when I first started mixing species. Certainly, they were not around when I did the first Pygocentrus cold-water testing in 1966.
> [snapback]873074[/snapback]​


thanks for makein me feel so young


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## Xenon

hastatus said:


> Actually DonH, I killed quite a few fishes myself. Some of these guys whining were not even born or probably in diapers when I first started mixing species. Certainly, they were not around when I did the first Pygocentrus cold-water testing in 1966.
> [snapback]873074[/snapback]​


My mother was just exiting high school.


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## jackburton

wow this is great stuff has it been done befor iam sure its still groundbreaking in the piranha world.good job frank

ps whats with ll the agro jesus


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## hastatus

For those inquiring......water temperature is 76.7 F.


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## fishofury

Wow, I can't believe I never saw this thread until now. Great job Frank







Please keep us updated


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## phensway

god damn, someone wants to grace us with pictures of his breeding fish and a riot breaks out.... love the pics... and i cant wait to see pics of the fry!!! leave the hostility for the children


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## Death in #'s

wow this thread turned to crap really quick

and frank thanks for the temp update


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## hastatus

I'll take more photos of the parent fishes. They are already in the thread, but unfortunately the extra excrement blotted the information.

I finally turned on the heater at 83F and will see what I have in a day or two. I've been so busy with the legislative stuff that I haven't had time to devote to just this 1 tank. I got some P. cariba that have me wondering what they are up to now.









For record, let me rehash what happened. The fish were unattended. Just water was added to fill up the surface. The water never dropped below an 1 1/2 to 2 inches before I put cool water in. They were fed shrimp mostly and basically ignored for any other purpose. I had put coconut fiber in the tank months ago as a decoration (see PFURY PHOTOS for S. mac on this stuff). A week ago, I needed to make extra room so I put Hollywood's S. mac into the 55g with the other 2 macs that were in there. Breeding was not on my agenda. Anyway, a couple days ago or so, when I went in to feed, I noticed the male was jet black and the female was too. The male was hovering over the coconut mat and guarding it. I could see what looked like eggs. I had been PMing Hollywood and asking him what he thought. He then sent some breeding material he had used on some P. natts. He evidently had that stuff for a long time. So I put it in the tank over the coconut mat. The male mac continued to defend that area and bit the plastic probe I put in there. It was then when I spotted more eggs. The female would come in and dance with the male and then go back into the cave, come back and repeat it.

The rest of this story can be found in this thread before it was disrupted and I could finish detailing what was happening with the fish.


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## jconroy

hastatus said:


> I'll take more photos of the parent fishes. They are already in the thread, but unfortunately the extra excrement blotted the information.
> 
> I finally turned on the heater at 83F and will see what I have in a day or two. I've been so busy with the legislative stuff that I haven't had time to devote to just this 1 tank. I got some P. cariba that have me wondering what they are up to now.
> 
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> 
> For record, let me rehash what happened. The fish were unattended. Just water was added to fill up the surface. The water never dropped below an 1 1/2 to 2 inches before I put cool water in. They were fed shrimp mostly and basically ignored for any other purpose. I had put coconut fiber in the tank months ago as a decoration (see PFURY PHOTOS for S. mac on this stuff). A week ago, I needed to make extra room so I put Hollywood's S. mac into the 55g with the other 2 macs that were in there. Breeding was not on my agenda. Anyway, a couple days ago or so, when I went in to feed, I noticed the male was jet black and the female was too. The male was hovering over the coconut mat and guarding it. I could see what looked like eggs. I had been PMing Hollywood and asking him what he thought. He then sent some breeding material he had used on some P. natts. He evidently had that stuff for a long time. So I put it in the tank over the coconut mat. The male mac continued to defend that area and bit the plastic probe I put in there. It was then when I spotted more eggs. The female would come in and dance with the male and then go back into the cave, come back and repeat it.
> 
> The rest of this story can be found in this thread before it was disrupted and I could finish detailing what was happening with the fish.
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Frank, this is great news; regardless of the serendipity. Please document the spawnng as much as you can; photos, water chemistry etc. Admins, please clean up the thread and pin it. We, PFury, have an awesome opportunity here to share the spawning and fry growth of this species. Let's not lose the focus of this great event.


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## hastatus

I don't think its necessary to clean it up. Some people are passionate about other's experiences and other forums they are members of. They shared their information from another source (though the intent was misguided on how they presented it). Still it shows the fish do spawn with overcare as well as undercare. That's the entire context of how this should be looked at.

As I explained to Hollywood, it made no matter to me whether or not the fish spawned. I will document as much as I can on it, but I have no real interest in keeping the eggs or young. However for the sake of everyone here at PFURY, I'll do what I can.

For folks interested in this, normally first time parents eat their eggs. Hollywood reminded me of this (not that it has happened.







). Its seen quite often with egglayers. Hollywood suggested some things and I'm not interested in doing all that work. Hell I can barely move around.







But I will photograph what I can when I can. That's why I'm putting info down here on what I'm finding when I sneek down to the fish room. Hollywood has been in my home and he knows the layout. For him, its a short distance from my living room to that fish room. For me with my problems, it is Mt. Rushmore.:laugh:

So please be patient.


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## the grinch

What is it about S. Maculatus, and P. Natt's that make them breed so hardy. I have came across several people who are terrible fish keepers who have sucessfully breed both species, not even attempting to do so, in the bast 10 years or so i have keept piranha's. Does this mean these species are more likely to thrive than other species of piranha's in the wild? Or do they just adapt better in a tank than the other species? Would this point in the direction that these piranha's are more likely to guarantee the life of the next generation than other species who are not as hardy of breeders in a tank? Could there be a relationship to this in the wild, or is it simply just the case in the home aquarium? Sorry if i repeated my self? Just trying to make my questions clear.


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## hastatus

In my article above that was taken out of context by other members, you can read the "causes" that make S. maculatus and P. nattereri prolific breeders.

Now for an interesting turn of events, the male S. maculatus has begun to pull the coconut fiber running along outside the dark breeding material over on top of it. That basically sandwiches the coconut fiber below the synthetic breeding material and now on top of it. I tried to get photos of this strange behavior but was unable. Enjoy the photos of what I did get anyway.


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## Curley

I have one Mac now in a 55 gal. Can I add another? Or is it just when breeding? Somebody told me mine was a solo P. Kinda boring with just one. Thanks


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## hastatus

If you note, mine are fin bitten. One reason why its not that bad is because I created hiding place. I don't recommend putting them together unless you intend to create a potential breeding environment. Or if you do put them together for esthetics then monitor more them than me to prevent mortality.


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## piranha_guy_dan

congrats on the mac's i used to have 2 but they died







i have bad luck with them i guess i only had em for like 1 month one died 7 days after i got him and the other a month later......... mine die to easy and urs spawn so easy







not fair lol


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