# No water changes needed for 6 months....



## corbypete

Anyone seen the product that prolongues water life? I bought it because it kills off the phosphate that was giving me bad algae problems however it also states that because it injects trace elements etc. it will reduce stress to the fish by allowing the same water to be used for upto 6 months, all you need to do is add the salty solution to the tank every week and have an air stone

waters looked the best ive ever seen it, anyone else tried it?

i'm beginning to think my tap water is worse than having my biologically filtered water in the tank, afterall im now not adding phosphates and chlorine weekly into my tank, that was destoyed days ago, the product nutralises nitrates, nitrites and any other baddies that may build up in a time where i'd normally have done 24 water changes.

also if the fish eat the green jelly substance, its not harmful or toxic to them, which is good cos the cichlid took a big gulp when it hit the water!!!


----------



## Puff

i saw that stuff at the LFS. i am pretty skeptical of it tho.

it seems too good to be true. sort of like, if it was really potent and worked in the long run...wouldnt everyone use it???

keep us posted on how your water holds up:laugh:


----------



## piranha paultje

corbypete said:


> Anyone seen the product that prolongues water life? I bought it because it kills off the phosphate that was giving me bad algae problems however it also states that because it injects trace elements etc. it will reduce stress to the fish by allowing the same water to be used for upto 6 months, all you need to do is add the salty solution to the tank every week and have an air stone
> 
> waters looked the best ive ever seen it, anyone else tried it?
> 
> i'm beginning to think my tap water is worse than having my biologically filtered water in the tank, afterall im now not adding phosphates and chlorine weekly into my tank, that was destoyed days ago, the product nutralises nitrates, nitrites and any other baddies that may build up in a time where i'd normally have done 24 water changes.
> 
> also if the fish eat the green jelly substance, its not harmful or toxic to them, which is good cos the cichlid took a big gulp when it hit the water!!!
> [snapback]952968[/snapback]​


hmm...i have never seen any product like that. maby it's because i live in the netherlands. But havend you got any information about a brand? when it realy works i would like to have some of that stuff. maybe you can send me a pm with a photo of the product.


----------



## NegativeCamber

whats the name of it and who makes it??


----------



## GoJamieGo

I'd like to get my hands on some of that stuff........ Whats it called???


----------



## corbypete

found it!

im not at home so i wasn't gonna be able to get you a pic, however lunchtime surfing has prevailed!

heres a pic of the bottle and the description below:









Eliminates frequent water changes. Keeps aquarium water biologically balanced for 6 months. Stabilizes pH and alkalinity. (KH) levels for fish and plants. Reduces phosphate levels for improved water quality - reduces aglae growth. Also adds vitamins and trace elements. Use 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons weekly. Freshwater use only.

Removes phosphate from tap water and prevents its accumulation as a byproduct of digestion and energy metabolism 
Adds Vitamins, Minerals and Trace Elements
Super-fuels natural microorganisms that digest fish waste. Enhances biological filtration 
With EasyBalance, necessary water changes go from biweekly or over 25 times per year to twice per year.


----------



## rchan11

Very interesting! Have to check in to it.


----------



## dutchfrompredator

try it and let me know men.


----------



## Phtstrat

corbypete said:


> Eliminates frequent water changes. Keeps aquarium water biologically balanced for 6 months. Stabilizes pH and alkalinity. (KH) levels for fish and plants. Reduces phosphate levels for improved water quality - reduces aglae growth. Also adds vitamins and trace elements. Use 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons weekly. Freshwater use only.
> 
> Removes phosphate from tap water and prevents its accumulation as a byproduct of digestion and energy metabolism
> Adds Vitamins, Minerals and Trace Elements
> Super-fuels natural microorganisms that digest fish waste. Enhances biological filtration
> With EasyBalance, necessary water changes go from biweekly or over 25 times per year to twice per year.
> [snapback]953053[/snapback]​


I don't see anything in here mentioning nitrate build up, and I've never heard of any other way to do it besides water changes.

It will be interesting to see how it works though. If someone tries it can you please post your water parameters as time progresses?


----------



## elTwitcho

To be honest, I wouldn't trust it. Maybe that's partly driven by being stuck in the mentality that "you need to do water changes" or maybe not, but I see it this way; fish produce more wastes than just ammonia. While ammonia is the most toxic of fish waste, there is still all sorts of other organic waste that your fish gives off into the water. Further to this, fish also release hormones into the water. Over a period of 6 months, you're looking at a massive build up of these organic wastes and hormones, which basically means the fish will be living in it's own filth for all that time, which to me does not seem healthy. You have to understand that compared to their natural habitat where they have an abundance of fresh water, our aquariums are like living in a toilet for them, the best we can do is make it a very clean toilet.

Now, I'm not saying it's a bad product, and if it does add trace minerals it may even be benificial to add to your water between water changes or even with regular water changes, but I don't think it should replace water changes entirely. Changing water is much more than just reintroducing trace minerals to your tank, it's removing old poluted water and replacing it with clean water as well.


----------



## r1dermon

i agree with el. water changes are like a breath of fresh air for the fish. heh. it'd be like you living in your house with all the windows and doors locked and closed for 6 months just because you have an ionic breeze thingy. heh. i'd stick with the changes. maybe less frequently, but definately not 6 months.


----------



## corbypete

Well, its in my tank, the fish seem happy for now, my nitrate and nitrite levels are between 0-5, barely show on my stick. the ph has dropped to about 6.8, and the hardness has dropped by about a 15% i dont have a phosphate measurement but i usually have some algae by now, i so far have none, but the plants look good, it seriously looks like ive just done a water change today, my missus came in and said "wow that waters so clear" i had to proceed to show her the bottle, and that i had cheated a little!

i'll keep an eye on the results, keep cleaning my filters as normal and see how we go, as it needs lots of aeration im guessing it breaks it down then the agitated surface must release some toxins, aswell as the neutralising salts that go in like jelly suspension weekly

I can understand why people would find it hard to get out of the water changing habit, but with water companies these days adding, removing, leaving in, all manner of chemicals and hormones ( dont forget ours are in it too!) you dont know if you're doing harm or any good

remember the filterless planted tanks, they worked, but its not to everyones taste...

anyoen else trying this product?


----------



## taylorhedrich

If you have to add a teaspoon of that stuff weekly per 5 gallons that could get expensive for a large tank. Oh, I'd also like to say that I agree with El Twitcho. He always seems to make really good points. He should've been a lawyer








~Taylor~


----------



## corbypete

here you go guys, a website about all its properties and what the sceptics say:
http://www.tetra-fish.co.uk/tetraeasybalance/

have a good read


----------



## elTwitcho

corbypete said:


> remember the filterless planted tanks, they worked, but its not to everyones taste...
> 
> [snapback]953255[/snapback]​


I'm going to do some more reading but you can't compare this to a filterless planted tank because the plants perform the role of the filter. Nothing here is performing the role of removing organic wastes that aren't consumed by nitrifying bacteria.

I'll be back after I do a bit o research though


----------



## Puff

thats the exact same stuff i saw at the LFS...speaking of...im off to there now to add to my barb school...and hopefully get a crab or two...the aquarium kind...not THAT kind :laugh:


----------



## wayne.140

I been talking to a friend of mine he is up on all things to do with fish. He says this stuff is awesome for tropical fish but not that good for piranah as they produce alot of waste. dont know if this help guys but thought i would let you know what he had to say. 
ps. he says it cant make things worse for the piranah so if you can afford it stick it in it wont harm them


----------



## corbypete

wayne.140 said:


> I been talking to a friend of mine he is up on all things to do with fish. He says this stuff is awesome for tropical fish but not that good for piranah as they produce alot of waste. dont know if this help guys but thought i would let you know what he had to say.
> ps. he says it cant make things worse for the piranah so if you can afford it stick it in it wont harm them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]954163[/snapback]​


they do stress that if you leave food in the tank or overstock to 1.5cm per gallon or over you will have problems and the products effectiveness will be degraded - naturally. but as for the waste, the crystals that go in with the solution take care of weekly deposits, though i could see it struggling with 10 adult piranhas poop... or maybe not if you put the proper dosage in, ratios the same

im going by the rule of 'if i can see it, it must be removed', be it poo, food etc. that way im not pushing the limits, however the water change will not happen, for a while at least, or if my readings get out of hand.

also, cost wise, it may seem a little expensive at first, but if you think of the amount of time you can spend doing a water change, especially if your tank isnt just slung in your garage, but in a posh lving room, together with the cost of the gallons of water you tip on your garden weekly, plus dechlorinators, plant fertilisers, algae removers, and so on, total that up and you'd happily pay someone £1 per 10 gallons a month to avoid the mess and stress to you and your fishes.

Someone else give it a try, i doubt hardly anyone here has not had to deal with a recent pain in the ass problem with their tank


----------



## celticwarrior

I've been using this for a couple of months.All parameters are good.I have a 165 gallon tank and water change every third 'week' instead of every 3rd 'day' A 6 pound/12 dollars bottle lasts for 3 weeks [250ml] I still do regular filter cleans etc,the waters clearer and the fish are less stressed.I was buying 10pound/20 dollars of RO water a week so i save a fortune.Although i wouldnt want to leave it longer than a month between changes but thats personnal choice.My plants are fine and the water doesn't stink.Hope this helps.I still clean out the crap every other day.Its not a magic formula for doing no tank cleaning or water changes.


----------



## red&black

i don't know how that would work with p's just because of the fact that they produce a lot of waste. Iam sure u would still have to vacume the bottom though. hey keep us posted though cause if it works, ill def be interested.


----------



## BigChuckP

Even if it worked well for you I dont think that I would change my water changing schedule. It makes no sense not to add fresh water to an aquarium. Plus gravel vacing is needed to get rid of all the crap from the ps and other fish. 
For example lets say you lived in a room with no ventilation and no toilet, you just crapped and pissed in a corner but there was enough oxygen in the room to sustain you. You would be sick from the smell and circulating nastiness.
Im just glad I am not a p living in your aquarium.

EDIT:


----------



## Mack

Yup, sounds like a bad idea to me.


----------



## Judazzz

In my opinion, products like this are for people that are too lazy to take the responsibility of regular aquarium maintenance.
Chemicals will never be able to replace regular maintenance


----------



## corbypete

well, onto week 2 now, i did notice a slight increase in nitrates towards the end of the week, but theyre back to zero again after the second treatment.

i had to clear some algae from the last couple of days, but on the whole it still looks great, i cant get over how clear the water is. even with algae on the sides the water is not green at all, i can see clearly lenthways through the tank.

i got up a few troublesome poos from the bottom with my net but that was all, apart from that the readings are spot on, the fish are happier than ive seen them ever, and the room finally doesnt smell.

keeping a close eye, its not 6 months yet but only 2 weeks so its still early.


----------



## BigChuckP

I hope your p jumps out of the tank and bites you in the face


----------



## corbypete

BigChuckP said:


> I hope your p jumps out of the tank and bites you in the face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]964923[/snapback]​


I hope yours gets a cold from all the stress you give him weekly


----------



## Grosse Gurke

I guess I am kind of wondering why people wouldnt have clear water in the first place. I have never used any product but a plain old conditioner and I have never had cloudy water. I dont think my water could be any clearer. I guess if you have a problem with a cloudy tank and this cleans it that would be benefit enough.
.......but why would your tank be cloudy in the first place?


----------



## Azeral

Judazzz said:


> In my opinion, products like this are for people that are too lazy to take the responsibility of regular aquarium maintenance.
> Chemicals will never be able to replace regular maintenance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]964904[/snapback]​


And real medicine will never replace Indian Herbs


----------



## corbypete

still clear.

tested last night and no reading on my nitrate/nitrites stick, maybe 0.0001 on my nitrate but thats all, everyones getting on happily in the tank, crabs love hiding in the holes in my new bogwood.

i got cloudy water from green algae before, now i only get it forming on items in the tank, the water is as clear as air.


----------



## DonH

There's a basic law that the universe follows. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed... In other words, everything has to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear. As far as nitrate removal, there are only several processes known to reliably remove them from your aquarium. Denitrification, ion exchange, water change and massive amounts of plants. The nitrates have to go somewhere. Degassed as nitrogen gas in the denitrification process or in some cases reverted back to nitrite and then back to ammonia, swapped out with an ion exchange resin in place of sodium (in most cases), physically taken out during a water change, or utilized by plants as a nitrogen source. There are no chemicals that you can simply add to the tank that will make nitrates all of a sudden "disappear". This holds true for everything. Also, clarity is not a true indication of water quality. I can have a micron filter and a UV attached to really shitty water and it will come out crystal clear. Let me know when you start seeing foam buildup around the filter (protein buildup).

Finally, given a filtered 60 gallon tank and a few community tetras, anyone should be able to keep them alive for 6 months without a water change (assuming that it was cycled in the first place and was not overfed).


----------



## corbypete

Water still fresh, fish happy as can be.

noticed a bit of extra debris so cranked the filter up a bit, and all is well.

The dehydration of the tank occured, so had to top up by about 1x6th, apart fromt hat its trouble free.

Also, the algae has died down dramtically, i get it forming on items but no more free floating algae whatsoever, its great.

Finished that little bottle so got a new bigger bottle at the weekend, wil last me 7 weeks+ at about £1 per week


----------



## CTREDBELLY

im bookmarking this post once i switch to my bigger tank in 2 months i would hate to do wate rchanges every week with the size of the tank. if i can get the water changes down to even bi-weekly i would be happy


----------



## corbypete

OK, had to do a full waterchange at the weekend.

Reason for this was there was too much debris for my measly Ehiem powerball filter to cope with.

The readings however were rock solid at zero, ph <7.0, so the water itself was sound.

So, target to beat is 6 weeks without a water change. I've put on order a phat ehiem external cannister filter in addition to the internal filter, so this time it should be able to go longer, also I ran out of the product and missed a treatment - i think this was the main tiring factor as it all went wrong after this point.

I've moved to a better food, the flakes were making a mess of the tank, and i've got 3 big snails on the way to clear up the remaining debris.

Add it weekly (dont miss a treatment), have a good filter (or two) and theres little stopping you hitting the 6 month mark.

More updates in 6 weeks time!

p.s.
got a second P added to the tank, she's only small, but will no doubt put more strain on the system, we'll wait and see.


----------



## sicklid-holic

This product sounds fishy as hell, reminds me when I went to petsmart and ask the fish guy, "do you have something to help speed up my cycle on my tank?" and the fish guy hand me a product called "cycle", I look at him confused. He said, dump it in your tank and your good to go.








I said WTF???







and walk away not buying the product.

As Don H said, nitrates has to go somewhere, it cant magically dissapear. Unless by massive use of aquatic plants and waterchanges. Dont waste your time and money. You want to keep your fish happy:
1) Do water changes
2) Do water changes
3) and do more water changes...

I do my 50% water changes (w/some gravel vacs) weekly on my Piranha tank and 50% every two weeks (w/some gravel vacs) on my other tanks (Central Americans and Africans). After a while of checking you will know when it is time to change and how much water to remove.

Just my 2c.


----------



## corbypete

here's some findings from someone on another site:

just to share about the above mentioned product.

I'm from Singapore, and i had tried that product extensively before...

1) My test tank's guppies when w/o water change for more than 1 year.
2) My 2nd test tank Water was changed every month.
3) My control tank was maintained as per normal.

All plants in my tanks are fake. Fishes are fed solely flakes and nothing else. Gravel substract with normal foam filter.

my findings after slightly over 1 year.

1) Algae, indeed cleared.
2) Water clear, but over extended period of time, i find a slightly smell (maybe psychological) and colour of water not as clear as control tank.
3) Control tank guppies spawned many times.
4) Test tank no.2 spawned twice. but the fries did not live over the day
5) Test tank no.1 never spawn at all, and growth rate for guppies slowest in the 3
6) no snails were found in either of the 3 tanks.
7) all fishes eats heartly

hope this helps....


----------



## clintard_leonard

honestly i think the stuff works. I used to use it im my 30 gal community tank and never did a water change for 1 1/2 years straight and did maybe 2 gravel vacs. The tank sat in direct sunlight and didnt get algae, my guppies spawned like rabbits, my snails thrived, and i never had a fish death. I put this stuff in my tank just like the bottle said and my water was SOOOOOOOOO clear.

right now i have 3 tanks.

the p tank with no easy balance, i do not overfeed and the water isnt that clear. algae growing fast
5 gallon with 2 gourami, water isnt as clear as the p tank but isnt dirty, algae growing fast

5 gallon WITH EASY BALANCE= OVERSTOCKED with a shitload of fancy and regular guppies and about 50 or more babies, CRYSTAL CLEAR WATER, NO ALGAE, Fish move 10 times more!


----------



## corbypete

I just love the 'refresh day' when I get to put the solution in, because it transforms the tank within a few hours, I could look down the length of the tank and see a slight green haze, put this in and look later on and the tank is clear once again and fish swimming around as if I just did a water change.

Plants have never looked so good, they actually recovered froma bad case of leaf rotting that my old tank allowed.

The fish all seem to be growing much faster now also, less sheepish and actually swim around the tank properly, actively looking for food or mischief!

Algae? What algae! Ive not had algae for months, forget the other algae solutions this stuff seems to balance the root of the problem - the water. Phosphates, overfeeding etc. etc. all taken care of.

My missus can't believe what a strain it was keeping a fish tank before EasyBalance, now even she couldn't get it wrong, I think every newbie should be given a bottle of this with their tank and never expose a fish to high ammonia/nitrates/nitrite/phosphates/algae again!

I can't be told otherwise, I just dont see how old 'home fishkeeping' theories fit anymore when this is blatent evidence right in front of my face that everything in the tank is working like it should, and most of all my fish are happier than I've EVER had them bar releasing them into the wild in the USA.


----------



## clintard_leonard

corbypete your a genious,

We wont be able to change every ones mind on easy balance untill they actually try some, the results are noticable in weeks not months. These people are just used to the old fashioned way, im off to get a new bottle now!


----------



## Mack

Yep. That's what we are, we're just old-fashioned.

Of course, yeah, you can just add some chemical and it magically removes all bad things from your fish tank.


----------



## clintard_leonard

shut up untill you try it my friend, itll prove all your asses wrong


----------



## *J2*

Help me out here...Because I'm a little confused







. Ok, so it elimanates frequent water changes. Check. But you still have to gravel vac right? Because P's crap a whole lot. But here's where I get confused...when you gravel vac...you remove your tank water. What I usually do, is add new water and dump the crapped in water. Hence a water change. So with this product, you still gravel vac...but then just dump the crap water back in, trying your best not put the crap back in? I'm confused...can someone shed some light on this?

Thanks!


----------



## clintard_leonard

i only gravel vac maybe once a year, my gravel dosnt look that bad either. I PROMISE to anyone who tries easy balance, a day or 2 after you put it in, your water will be so clear it cant get any clearer. I ran out and just got a new bottle, put it in all my tanks except one and the water with the easy balance is amazingly clear. I dont do water changes either i just add easy balance every week


----------



## r1dermon

lol, ok, i'll take you up on that. im going to buy some of this sh*t and use it on my 10g tank. if i have to do a water change due to nitrates or ammonia though...its going to prove that the stuff is bull sh*t. i'll keep a journal.


----------



## *J2*

clintard_leonard said:


> i only gravel vac maybe once a year, my gravel dosnt look that bad either. I PROMISE to anyone who tries easy balance, a day or 2 after you put it in, your water will be so clear it cant get any clearer. I ran out and just got a new bottle, put it in all my tanks except one and the water with the easy balance is amazingly clear. I dont do water changes either i just add easy balance every week
> [snapback]1030699[/snapback]​


You only gravel vac 1nce a year? How many, and what size p's do you have in what size tank? Just curious, because they crap a lot. This Easy Balance elimanates the poo that much, you don't even need to gravel vac? Ok, if this is true, then I'm sold for sure.


----------



## Mack

Yeah, sure, the water is clear, but to be honest, that doesn't mean anything.


----------



## clintard_leonard

the easy balance dosnt exactly eliminate the poop. the bacterial colonies do. The easy balance makes water parameters near pefect and bacteria thrive, you get no algae, and your tank is pretty much hassle free. I just tested my water today, i havnt changed the water for 2 months and heres the reading

amonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-40ppm

If i went another month the nitrates would go up a little but not as much as a tank without water changes and no easy balance, just my 2c


----------



## *J2*

I'm still a little skeptical about not gravel vacing the poop and other stuff out of the tank. A direct qoute from the actual Tetra website "You still need to keep your filter clean, and *you also need to carry on removing debris from the substrate*." But you say you don't at all...very interesting...

BTW...you didn't answer my questions...

Size of your tank?
Number of Piranhas and size?

Thanks!


----------



## corbypete

i dont gravel vac but id do a swish with my net instead, cos i have sand.

I swoosh the net one way then back the other way which picks up any debris. YOu will need to remove some derbis every now and then when it turns black.

Id recommend you do it at the end of the week when you are going to add more easybalance, top up the water if you need to.

We're not saying adding water is bad, because it generally isnt, but were saying you dont need to do a water change as before.

You will also need to top up your tank due to evaporation.

Nice one r1dermon, you'll be pleasantly surprised mate, your tank will never look so good.

If you want tank specs, heres one for ya:

40 gallon long - 2 piranhas, one 4" the other 3", one 3" cichlid, one other 2" cichlid, 2x 1" tiger barbs, 1x 1/2" neon, 3x 1/2" apple snails, 1x unknown algae loach, 1x freshwater crab. All were in a 30 gallon tall last month, with no problems of water conditions, plus there was an extra tetra and two other crabs but the fish got eaten and crabs escaped.


----------



## *J2*

I would do a net swoosh thing...But I have gravel...and the gravel gets stuck in with debris. So its kinda pointless for me. Like I said...I know you will have to still gravel vac and the water comes out too. So basically you put new water in, which is a water change...I think I'll wait for a product where it elimanates poo too.


----------



## clintard_leonard

My tanks=

33 gallon, 2 rbp's
5 gallon feeder guppy breeding tank,
5 gallon with 2 dwarf fire gouramis

If your skeptical, quit being cheap like me hehe, i wont pay for gravel but ill buy easy balance, its like 7 bucks for a nice sized bottle.

If you try it you will be amazed, and as for gravel vacing being water changes, so be it but im telling you man, just try it out and you will join the long list of people who use this awsome product
best fish investment ever


----------



## corbypete

you can gravel vack without taking out 50 litres of water surely?

plus it wont be a weekly gravel vac you'll do, it will be a monthly thing, so you're still gonna change/relax your current schedule, and enjoy your fish instead of enjoying the water changing process!

If you're not willing to try then we're not gonna force you, but its advice to try it when you get a minute, it will change your whole perspective on fishkeeping.

My father in-law really wants a saltwater version, his tank is out of control and very jealous mine went from algae mania to a tank that looks like i clean it daily!

i may drop em an email....


----------



## corbypete

another e-zine does a mini story on easybalance success

http://www.waterzoo.co.uk/Updates/2003%20u...te%206.03p1.gif


----------



## clintard_leonard

corbypete said:


> you can gravel vack without taking out 50 litres of water surely?
> 
> plus it wont be a weekly gravel vac you'll do, it will be a monthly thing, so you're still gonna change/relax your current schedule, and enjoy your fish instead of enjoying the water changing process!
> 
> If you're not willing to try then we're not gonna force you, but its advice to try it when you get a minute, it will change your whole perspective on fishkeeping.
> 
> My father in-law really wants a saltwater version, his tank is out of control and very jealous mine went from algae mania to a tank that looks like i clean it daily!
> 
> i may drop em an email....
> [snapback]1031911[/snapback]​


----------



## *J2*

corbypete said:


> you can gravel vack without taking out 50 litres of water surely?
> 
> plus *it wont be a weekly gravel vac you'll do, it will be a monthly thing*, so you're still gonna change/relax your current schedule, and enjoy your fish instead of enjoying the water changing process!
> 
> If you're not willing to try then we're not gonna force you, but its advice to try it when you get a minute, it will change your whole perspective on fishkeeping.
> 
> My father in-law really wants a saltwater version, his tank is out of control and very jealous mine went from algae mania to a tank that looks like i clean it daily!
> 
> i may drop em an email....
> [snapback]1031911[/snapback]​


Well...if even if all I have to do is a monthly gravel vac...compared to a weekly gravel vac...then I guess this product really is worth the money. I'm gonna get some this weekend and give it a try. We'll see how it works out. Thanks to the 2 utes...I mean 2 YOUTHS here







....seriously though, thanks guys!


----------



## Proctain

Thanks for telling me about this product...I went out and picked up a bottle last night. It will be VERY useful this fall during college


----------



## *J2*

Hey guys







...just wanted to let you know...I went up to PetsMart last night and grabbed me a big bottle...I'm gonna use it this weekend...I'll let you know how it worked out.


----------



## corbypete

J2, updates?


----------



## *J2*

Yes...I just did a water change...and got rid of all the poo from their feeding of 2 mice last night. I just add dechloronater and let that sit for about an hour. I just now added the recommended dose of the easy balance. I'll let you know how clear my water gets 24 hours from now.

Later.


----------



## clintard_leonard

give it a little more than 24 hours, but you will see how amazing it looks mane!


----------



## corbypete

its strange, i add it to my tank a the end of the week, the water by then has a gren hue to it, then i get a day of white cloudyness, then it fades and i get the cleanest tank on earth, it virtually sparkles.

it amazes me every week


----------



## corbypete

how are your tanks.... mines fine, clear as ever, readings nil, fish happy as every and eating regularly.

i just have to clean my filter weekly now, think im gonna but an external ehiem off ebay....


----------



## ITsPennywise

My tank is looking clear as crystal...for lack of a better word...But the thing is...I still gravel vac and water change weekly...Just because I like to have all the debri out of my tank...I just figure putting in the easy balance gives it that extra umph of clean. There's no way I could go a month without gravel vacing...The tank would just look nasty on the bottom...But yeah...I do like the product.


----------



## clintard_leonard

corbypete said:


> how are your tanks.... mines fine, clear as ever, readings nil, fish happy as every and eating regularly.
> 
> i just have to clean my filter weekly now, think im gonna but an external ehiem off ebay....
> [snapback]1047167[/snapback]​


why do you have to clean your filter weekly?

told ya guys the stuff kicks ass


----------



## corbypete

i have 3 small piranhas, a firemouth cichlid, a crab, and 2 tiger barbs... since putting the third P in i have had lots more waste.

i dont change the water though, its clear as day, i bought 3 apple snails that seem to sweep the deck when things get messy.


----------



## MR.FREEZ

corbypete said:


> i have 3 small piranhas, a firemouth cichlid, a crab, and 2 tiger barbs... since putting the third P in i have had lots more waste.
> 
> i dont change the water though, its clear as day, i bought 3 apple snails that seem to sweep the deck when things get messy.
> [snapback]1047369[/snapback]​


what has your water test results shown?


----------



## corbypete

they've shown absolutely no change since i started the use of EasyBalance. note I say since i STARTED, before then I was having high rates all over the place, and incredible algae growth. Now all i get is 'some' reading on my nitrates reading towards the end of the week just before the next dosage, zero nitrites, lower hardness by a fraction, and a lower ph.
Its been so constant I don't test anymore, it used to be a twice a week thing. I haven't seen algae in over 2 months... no I tell a lie, I saw some this morning in my father-in-laws marine tank - unfortunately they don't do easybalance for marine yet, so he's more than green with algae he's green with envy too!


----------



## MR.FREEZ

i am still skeptical of the whole "no need for water changes"

start up your blogg up top here to keep records and things stay cleaner and easy for lazy people like me to read through


----------



## corbypete

how dya mean matey?


----------



## elTwitcho

Sigh, you guys still don't adress the basic issues and keep going "it looks great, it must be working". I can pour bleach in my tank in small quantities and the water will look just great too, but that's besides the point.

On hormone buildup in aquarium fish


> When fish are growing in an aquarium they give off natural hormones that inhibit the growth of each other (and themselves!). What your fishes really need to grow is more water changes to dilute the buildup of these hormones. Professional fish farmers do daily water changes to grow their fish the fastest.


From wetweb media



> Growth-repressing hormones. Nernst posted at AC, Nov. 2000: "The growth-inhibiting"hormones" whose levels could be lowered with water changes are, in diminishing order of importance: Somatostatin, Norepinephrine, Serotonin, Nitric Oxide.
> 
> Sources:
> 
> Peng Chun and Richard E. Peter, "Neuroendocrine regulation of growth hormone secretion and growth in fish."Zoological Studies. 36(2). 1997. 79-89.
> 
> Aubrey D. Uretsky and John P Chang. "Evidence that nitric oxide is involved in the regulation of growth hormone secretion in goldfish." GeneralComparative Endocrinology. 118(3). June, 2000. 461-470.
> 
> Hans A. Hofmann and Russell D Fernald. "Social status controls somatostatin neuron size and growth. Journal of Neuroscience. 20(12). June 15, 2000. 4740-4744.
> 
> Sameer R Phale."The neuroendocrine secretion regulates growth hormone release in teleost fish" Fishery Technology. 35(1). Jan., 1998. 1-8.
> 
> H. Martin Oyama, E J. Sussman, K. Weir G C. and A.Permutt ."The biological activity of catfish pancreatic somatostatin."Regulatory Peptides.1 (6). 1981. 387-396. This article shows how Somatostatin could be freely secreted via the gut into the surroundings.


Skeptical Aquarist

You can call it "old fashioned" all you like, it's simply a matter of not believing every bit of hype vendors try and sell you, especially when they don't address issues that are scientifically proven to affect fish health.


----------



## spec-v

elTwitcho said:


> Sigh, you guys still don't adress the basic issues and keep going "it looks great, it must be working". I can pour bleach in my tank in small quantities and the water will look just great too, but that's besides the point.
> 
> On hormone buildup in aquarium fish
> 
> 
> 
> When fish are growing in an aquarium they give off natural hormones that inhibit the growth of each other (and themselves!). What your fishes really need to grow is more water changes to dilute the buildup of these hormones. Professional fish farmers do daily water changes to grow their fish the fastest.
> 
> 
> 
> From wetweb media
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Growth-repressing hormones. Nernst posted at AC, Nov. 2000: "The growth-inhibiting"hormones" whose levels could be lowered with water changes are, in diminishing order of importance: Somatostatin, Norepinephrine, Serotonin, Nitric Oxide.
> 
> Sources:
> 
> Peng Chun and Richard E. Peter, "Neuroendocrine regulation of growth hormone secretion and growth in fish."Zoological Studies. 36(2). 1997. 79-89.
> 
> Aubrey D. Uretsky and John P Chang. "Evidence that nitric oxide is involved in the regulation of growth hormone secretion in goldfish." GeneralComparative Endocrinology. 118(3). June, 2000. 461-470.
> 
> Hans A. Hofmann and Russell D Fernald. "Social status controls somatostatin neuron size and growth. Journal of Neuroscience. 20(12). June 15, 2000. 4740-4744.
> 
> Sameer R Phale."The neuroendocrine secretion regulates growth hormone release in teleost fish" Fishery Technology. 35(1). Jan., 1998. 1-8.
> 
> H. Martin Oyama, E J. Sussman, K. Weir G C. and A.Permutt ."The biological activity of catfish pancreatic somatostatin."Regulatory Peptides.1 (6). 1981. 387-396. This article shows how Somatostatin could be freely secreted via the gut into the surroundings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Skeptical Aquarist
> 
> You can call it "old fashioned" all you like, it's simply a matter of not believing every bit of hype vendors try and sell you, especially when they don't address issues that are scientifically proven to affect fish health.
> [snapback]1049674[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

I agree twitch call me old fashion but nothing is better then a good water change once or twice a week good luck with your easy Balance I just can't see trusting a product that hasn't been tested long term.


----------



## corbypete

Its fine believing hype, but when you're 2-3 months down the line, all readings clear, fish happy as can be, zero algae, it signifies a working setup to me.

If my fish are still going strong in 1-2 years time, I can class it as perfectly fine for domestic use, in the medical profession if a product keeps something at bay for over 3 years its considered a 'cure'


----------



## elTwitcho

corbypete said:


> Its fine believing hype, but when you're 2-3 months down the line, all readings clear, fish happy as can be, zero algae, it signifies a working setup to me.
> 
> If my fish are still going strong in 1-2 years time, I can class it as perfectly fine for domestic use, in the medical profession if a product keeps something at bay for over 3 years its considered a 'cure'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]1049832[/snapback]​


Yes and also of note is that in the medical profession they do more tests than "looks good I guess" and they don't reccomend something as a long term success because it has worked for a little over two months. Two months is nothing in fish keeping, and it's unfortunate that so many people measure success in terms of months and not years, it's like all the people who say "I didn't cycle and my fish lived fine for 18 months" ignoring the fact that the fish should have lived for over 5 years.


----------



## corbypete

yes and no, fish can also die overnight due to one simple mistake in the day, so naturally people expect knock-on effects to occure very quickly.

lets wrap this up and talk about it in 2 years time then yeah?


----------



## clintard_leonard

twitch, i respect your opinion, i respect the fact that you love your fish like children, but i DARE you to get a 10 gallon, put some feeders in it and set it up, use some easy balance, just see what you think man.


----------



## elTwitcho

clintard_leonard said:


> twitch, i respect your opinion, i respect the fact that you love your fish like children, but i DARE you to get a 10 gallon, put some feeders in it and set it up, use some easy balance, just see what you think man.
> [snapback]1050194[/snapback]​


I can understand where you're coming from dude, but if you can appreciate my philosophy on fish keeping you'll see that a 10 gallon with feeders won't prove anything at least related to what I want to do. I don't just want to keep my fish alive in my tanks, I want my fish to THRIVE, and have as absolutely close to optimum conditions as possible in the mean time. Take my rhoms tank for instance, I've heavily planted it and have CO2 injection and 3 watts per gallon running on it and yes it looks nice, but I'd rather not be bothered with the work involved. I do it, because rhoms seem to adapt to aquarium water conditions about as bad as possible without actually dying and I want those plants to act as water purifiers. A fish that only grows at 1/10th their regular rate when you put them in aquarium tells me there are issues with how they adapt to aquarium conditions and I'm trying my best to make sure he doesn't just "live" but "lives extremely healthily".

By that extension, a 10 gallon tank of feeders is not going to tell me much of anything because I'm not interested in something as innacurate as "well the fish look alright I guess" because "alright" isn't enough for me. I don't have the tools to measure the release of stress hormones from those feeders if they are suffering in that water (as I imagine they do), nor can I measure trace element buildup or hormone concentrations. A fish can live perfectly fine while still being very far from optimum health, they are designed to survive after all.

I see very fundamental flaws in the whole idea behind Easy Balance and I don't see how an unscientific and invalid "test" is going to change those. Hormones affect fish, and there is no provision for removing them without water changes. Not only that, but think about trace elements in the water, the EasyBalance product acknowledges that fish need trace elements to survive, and it adds those BUT how does it keep them in check? Do you realize that in a closed system where you aren't removing water your margin of error has to be absolutely ZERO to succeed? If you're adding a particular trace such as copper with the Easy Balance and your fish is using say 0.03 ppm while you're adding 0.05 you have an imbalance, and as you keep adding more than your fish uses this imbalance will progressively get worse and worse. This is why water changes are absolutely critical in reefkeeping because of the sensitivity of corals and other invertebrates. With a protein remover and liverock you can likely keep your nitrates at 0 indefinately but you have to add traces for the corals and you have absolutely no way of making sure those levels remain in balance without refreshing the system through water changes.

Water changes are not just about eliminating phosphates and nitrates as some people who take a simplistic view of water changes would like to believe. It is about maintaining balance in a closed system so that ALL of your water parameters do not get out of wack. There is no product in the universe short of removing water and replacing it with new water that is ever going to address this. Your fish might very well be alive for a long time in that stagnant and unhealthy water, but I am absolutely positive that they are not as healthy as they could otherwise be if you were maintaining them properly.


----------



## Mack

You can argue "the water is so clear" all you want, but you are not addressing the fact that it is impossible for growth inhibiting hormones to just disappear.


----------



## corbypete

*edited due to americans not getting british sarcasm*

"Ohh myyy gard was that.. like.. sarcasm? You eng-er-lish are sow quewt!"


----------



## Mack

Wow, your fish should be taken away.


----------



## smithgrind_who

corbypete said:


> what growth inhibiting hormones
> 
> you mean i can have more piranhas than the average tank cos theyre gonna be smal? woohooo!
> [snapback]1051363[/snapback]​


I feel great pity for your piranhas!


----------



## jasert39

wow...intresting thread until about 20 seconds ago. Dude if you dont want your piranhas to grow and be really healthy than find another site. I'm glad that you water is clear though.


----------

