# Fetus Protection Bill



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/01/...s.ap/index.html

I personally think that it is a great step towards the protection of unborn children.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

glad he signed it,

although i stand differently on abortion


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Well for once he is doing something good and costructive lol, i however condem abortion in ANY event there are no exceptions in my view


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

hopefully this law can be used in the future as a precedent for illegalizing abortion.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

my current AIM profile has the classic joke:

Q. [] *How many babies does it take to paint a house?*[]

A. It depends on how hard you throw them.

my sentiments on the subject follow accordingly. I do not consider fetuses, babies, and toddlers up to the age of perhaps 3 to be real people. They are less than dogs and cats in my book. And I really hate dogs and cats.

babies and porn, god i forgot what im missing out on in here









damn the motm poll being placed in this forum!


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

ra ra ra. we are all shocked p45. you have shocked us all again


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

I'm not saying it to be controversial, those are my actual thoughts on the subject. Merely because you think on the opposite end of the spectrum does not give you a fundamental right to snub anothers' opinion. You made the post to discuss, I contributed my thoughts to it.

An infants' brain is less developed/sentient than a dog or cat's, perhaps even less some of the lower mammalian forms of life. Therefore, it deserves no more respect than any other odd creature in my book


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## ViBE (Jul 22, 2003)

I dont see how a mother should lose her right to have a baby or not.

Thats the same thing as saying that a man should not have the right to vasectomy.


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## ViBE (Jul 22, 2003)

What am I saying. I think all of the males should shut up and let the females talk because I think its more approapriate for them to express how they feel about abortion. We dont know the feeling of walking about with a belly as big as my keg.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

ViBE said:


> What am I saying. I think all of the males should shut up and let the females talk because I think its more approapriate for them to express how they feel about abortion. We dont know the feeling of walking about with a belly as big as my keg.


 it takes 2 to tango.


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## rufus (Jan 6, 2004)

good move by him, now he needs to stop bothering stem cell research and i will be happy


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2004)

Although I belive in the right to choose, I personally find abortion to be immoral.

My biggest problem with abortion is the wrong people are geting them. The majority of people having abortions are hard working, smart people who are concerned that a baby will interfere with their career or college education.

The low-life, welfare-sucking, parasites that you wish would have abortions rarely ever do. Year after year, generation after generation this adds up to an underclass out-reproducing the middle and upper classes of society by a wide margin.

When a society's best earners stop having babies, it takes its toll on the genetic pool of a society, also. It's what some scientists refer to as "disgenics". The slow degredation of a society's potential because it's smartest, best educated members are having abortions instead of following through with their pregnancies while the unemployables stay home and have babies like puppy-mill dogs.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> The majority of people having abortions are hard working, smart people who are concerned that a baby will interfere with their career or college education.
> 
> The low-life, welfare-sucking, parasites that you wish would have abortions rarely ever do. Year after year, generation after generation this adds up to an underclass out-reproducing the middle and upper classes of society by a wide margin.
> 
> When a societies' best earners stop having babies, it takes its toll on the genetic pool of a society, also. It's what some scientists refer to as "disgenetics". The slow degredation of a society's potential because it's smartest, best educated members are having abortions instead of following through with their pregnancies while the unemployables stay home and have babies like puppy mill dogs.


 Truly a profound and intriguing idea there.


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

unborn children aren't children, they're just things.. and they're less than one millimeter big


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

WilliamBradley said:


> unborn children aren't children, they're just things.. and they're less than one millimeter big


 and even when they're 10" long, they're still less than a dog.

We systematically kill dogs every day. Yet killing these fetuses is a high crime on many peoples' books. What bullshit. And now we've signed it into law. Disgusting.


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

i think most people have some sort of connection to living creatures, human or not.

while i certainly do NOT take lightly the disgusting pictures you can find on the web of partial-birth abortions, i am fairly militant in my stance of the government not having the right to tell you what to do with your body, it is none of their business.

i am also amazed at the great lengths some people will take this......is rubbing one out in the shower considered "abortion" ?


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> Although I belive in the right to choose, I personally find abortion to be immoral.
> 
> My biggest problem with abortion is the wrong people are geting them. The majority of people having abortions are hard working, smart people who are concerned that a baby will interfere with their career or college education.
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. 
I am glad he signed the bill, because whoever murders a pregnant woman like Laci Peterson should face the ultimate consequence. As for abortion, I believe in the right to choose. IMO, it wouldn't really matter if abortion was mad illegal or not because abortions were done by women before there were clinics, and they will be done after. I guess it's just a matter of if it's in their bathroom or by a doc. Laws may be able to force people into many things, but I don't think they should force women to have unwanted babies, regardless of that womans own personal reasons. I totally think that abortion is terrible and immoral, but I don't see how we can force people to not have them.


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## TonyTurbo29 (Aug 11, 2003)

WOW...

There are some screwed up people in this site. Im glad he signed the bill and I am very anti-abortion. When you submit to another person(Sexual Intercourse) that is one of the things that you risk. Put a condom on and take birth control, but don't kill it because your efforts failed. There are thousands of people out there that would love to adopt a healthy baby and would give it a loving home.
However, there is the double edged sword. I would have a hard time telling a victim that she has to carry a reminder of the attack(Rape, Insest, etc). However, as long as there is no threat to the mother, I think it is wrong to kill a baby.

Furthermore, I think it's bull sh*t that men have no say in weather a woman can have an abortion. Did they not have sex?? I belive that if the man is willing to accept full responsibilty for the child post birth, the female should have to carry it. They both knew what they were doing, even if it was an "Accident".

Democrats:
"Kill all the babies you want(Pro-Abortion), but don't lay a finger on murders(Anti-Capitol Punishment).


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

TonyTurbo29 said:


> Democrats:
> "Kill all the babies you want(Pro-Abortion), but don't lay a finger on murders(Anti-Capitol Punishment).


 if thats actually so (it may be, I don't follow politics much), then we need a party that says "f*ck em both"


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

another note: if you speak to people with psychology degrees, they often mention that babies born through the raping of a woman are more likely to be rapists and sex offenders themselves as adults.

to sit behind a computer screen and blather on about how a woman should raise a baby that she was forced into having by some rapist (and possibly by our government) is the most ignorant thing i hear about this debate.

if it happened to _my_ daughter or wife, etc. i promise you that your short-sighted opinions wouldnt be worth the time of day.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

Markosaur said:


> Well for once he is doing something good and costructive lol, i however condem abortion in ANY event there are no exceptions in my view


so how about if the mother was going to die? let say she was going to have complication during birth..and might die from it???then what??

how about rape??.incest???

don't get me wrong i too am against abortion..but i believe there are circumstances that need to be looked at..


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow...there is ALOT of good discusstion taking place here. I am really proud of you guys for having such diverse views, but this has not turned into a flame war. That is awesome!

Here is where I stand on the whole thing. I am glad that Bush signed that Bill. If some psycho wants to kill a mother and she is pregnant, then he deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. He/She murders a pregnant woman and not only takes the life of the mom, but also the baby that she (the pregnant woman) wanted to have. Where there is a pregnant woman there is a man involved as well (o.k...most of the time)

Regarding abortion...a woman will typically carry a baby for 38-42 weeks which is considered full term. This same woman can now deliver the baby 24 weeks and the baby is still going to be fine...there will be some worries in the begininig, but it will make it fine. Modern medicine is making "fetus viability" a reality at a younger and younger delivery date.

So when do you not consider this "fetus" to be a life? At what age? Piranha45 makes the stance that the value of life is based on its ability to comprehend and understand through intelligence...if this were the case, some people may say that he does not deserve to live. Where do you draw the line on what is intelligent and what is not?

I believe that all life is sacred...all life. If you rub one out in the shower this is not considered life. This is only sperm (Every sperm is saaaacred...Every sperm is gooooood - Ya gotta love Monty Python).

Piranha45 - I can guarentee that your views will change when you get older. My son is ony three years old, and he has more value than anyone else in this world...including myself. Funny that I would give my life for something that is of lesser intelligence than me. You do good with reason, but it lacks heart. When your heart someday becomes involved, your reason will change.

Jeffrey


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

So if a woman is carrying septuplets [7 children] and is murdered...is the guy charged for killing 8 people then?! Thatd label him a serial killer...hmm...interesting. Glad that it was passed anyway. Im against abortion unless rape, incest, or womens health is at stake.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Though I personally feel that abortion as a form of birth control is wrong, I do feel that it should be a considerable option in some cases. I know that if I get raped and end up getting pregnant, every day for 9 months I'll be reminded of that very moment. I don't think so...

Banning abortion is just another way of taking more rights away from the people...not everyone has the same morals or religious beliefs as everyone else...so I feel that it should be an available option to anyone that wants it.


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## TonyTurbo29 (Aug 11, 2003)

Puma said:


> to sit behind a computer screen and blather on about how a woman should raise a baby that she was forced into having by some rapist (and possibly by our government) is the most ignorant thing i hear about this debate.
> 
> if it happened to _my_ daughter or wife, etc. i promise you that your short-sighted opinions wouldnt be worth the time of day.


 That's not what I was saying. I completely agree that it's a horrible thing and that a woman should not be forced to raise/birth a baby if that was the case. It's just one of those decision that I hope that I never have to deal with. I just think in general, as an over all view.... Abortion is not right.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

i cant believe it but its true......i agree with P45









i dont think any more highly of humans that i do of the mouse that i feed my snake

i think we are all the same and i dont think that some things should be judged better cause they are smarter

when i turn old enough then i might just start a party called "f*ck them both"


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

my point was that infants are no smarter than dogs, and therefore deserve no more rights than what a dog would have.

My personal view on sufficiently grown humans is that they are smarter and thereby have a greater propensity to feel pain, and therefore should perhaps have more rights than other animals.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

i do think that murder of a person should only be alound after a certain age limit, not a 1mm egg

trust me, i know dogs that are smarter then older people


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Great humans being compared to dogs... wow the mentality we have on this board.


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

One of the finest books I've ever read was the 'Cider House Rules' (not the movie, the actual BOOK) And it poses many questions and opinions on abortions from the perspective of an orphan who performs abortions. I do not think the issue is black or white, in my opinion there is a large grey area where abortions are necessary, or not. I've really enjoyed everyone's opinions on this subject (except babies being the equivalent to dogs







)

I'm not American, but unfortuneatly everything that Bush does somehow influences the rest of the world... I give it a few months and the Canadian prime mininster will follow his lead as he usually does...


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

piranha45 said:


> my point was that infants are no smarter than dogs, and therefore deserve no more rights than what a dog would have.
> 
> My personal view on sufficiently grown humans is that they are smarter and thereby have a greater propensity to feel pain, and therefore should perhaps have more rights than other animals.


 i seen cases in the news about people gettin a harsher punishment for hurtin or

killin an animal than a human. a born child should have ever right any full grown

person has but a fetus i think is different and abortion should stay legal but if the

fetus gets past the point of a safe abortion then i think it could be considered two

counts of murder if the woman is killed . i dont know but it should stay legal and

up to the people that will take care of the child.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

well in my view a feetus is life the moment the cellular Mitosis starts. and the feetus starts to grow and take shape. when its just a egg and sperm its not alive. thats my view on that.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Great humans being compared to dogs... wow the mentality we have on this board.


 its a perfectly logical argument, and apparently a pretty valid one too since noone has yet attempted to challenge it... unless we were to consider your weak attempt at a dismissal to be an 'argument'.


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## kdblove_99 (Jul 17, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > Great humans being compared to dogs... wow the mentality we have on this board.
> ...


I actually think no one has challenged it. because, like me they think it's the stupiest thing they have ever heard on this board and everyone knows you write mostly for shock factor.

I too don't like abortion. A few said there should be stipulations. But, how do you do that? Do you actually have to file a report with the police saying you were raped? Otherwise, girls could just go to the clinic and say "Hey i was raped i need an abortion" But really be lieing. Then if she does file with Police and lies to them about the rape and is ok'd by who ever to get tthe abortion then they find out she made it up, does she then get charged for murder?


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

kdblove_99 said:


> piranha45 said:
> 
> 
> > Ms_Nattereri said:
> ...


 Agreed. It's a misguided opinion posted for shock value. The value of a life is not solely a linear function of its intelligence.

Whats worse, the idea that taking a child's life is morally equivalent to taking a dog's life reminds me of that nonsensical animal liberation group PETA.


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## accr (Nov 27, 2002)

mr.freez said:


> person has but a fetus i think is different and abortion should stay legal but if the
> 
> fetus gets past the point of a safe abortion then i think it could be considered two
> 
> ...










hats off to you..... 100% agree


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> kdblove_99 said:
> 
> 
> > piranha45 said:
> ...


 Yep...I agree!

Jeffrey


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

I see that you all are apparently believers in Human Divinity. I am perplexed about how you can believe in this while being atheists/agnostics at the same time (as I am sure many of you are). How is that possible?:rock:

bullsnake it sure wouldn't hurt your effort any to _support_ your argument. All you said is that my position/argument is stupid. Lets try and go a little beyond that eh?


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

Abortion may be very wrong for some of you........
But for others it may be different........
Lets leave it at that.
Live your own life to its fullest extent. Not someone elses.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

See the problem here is that everyone claims that a fetus is part of the womans body. Its not. I might piss a lot of people off here but...

The pregnant woman is nothing more than a recepticle for the unborn baby. The divine spark is driven at the moment of conception, and it is the womans responsibility to carry out her responsibility as the carrier. The baby is its own life, not just a part of the womans body she can dispose of at her own will.

Now, on to this bill. Hopefully this will lead to the overthrow of Roe v. Wade as that is by far one of the most irresponsible and illegal precedents on the books. I loved how all the abortion rights advocates in congress cried and cried over this bill..... who wouldnt want to extend legal protection to the unborn fetus? Abortion rights advocates..... because admitting that someone should be punished for killing fetuses, is admitting that its a life...

Sweet Dreams R v. W


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## rdang (Mar 27, 2004)

abortion is never a good thing, but people will always find a way to do it. if its made illegal, then alot less people could have them, and that would be awesome. i guess bush is not totally worthless after all. i wish cigarettes were illegal, it would make it alot easier to quit!


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

piranha45 said:


> bullsnake it sure wouldn't hurt your effort any to _support_ your argument. All you said is that my position/argument is stupid. Lets try and go a little beyond that eh?


 I'm not a philosopher, I'm a factory worker







I work with a shovel, not a textbook.

I just believe that human life has an inherent value exceeding that of any animal and it cannot be quantified by measuring the person's intelligence. 
Is a severely retarded child's life worth less than a cat's life?

The 'animal liberation' movement has tried to obscure these boundaries, drawing a moral equivalency between the holocaust and current livestock farming practices. This is simply ridiculous on the basis of common sense. For further evidence you can reference the Bible, where it states that man was created in the image of God.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> piranha45 said:
> 
> 
> > bullsnake it sure wouldn't hurt your effort any to _support_ your argument. All you said is that my position/argument is stupid. Lets try and go a little beyond that eh?
> ...


1) IMO, probably yes. My position is pretty uniform on this topic.

2) Their moral equivalency argument, IMO, is ridiculous based on the fact that humans have greater intellect and therefore greater capacity for pain. If you are one who considers suffering an important issue, then the animal who would suffer the most is clearly the one who should recieve highest regards. 
For example, a mite is less important than a pet tarantula, the tarantula being less important than a pet fish, the pet fish being less important than a cat, the cat less important than a chimpanzee, the chimp less important than a sufficiently-developed human (I'm speculating the human would have to be at least in the 6-7 years-old range), an 8 year old less important than a teenager.... after hitting teens I presume things start to get too murky for age-based judgement.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

I think that all the people crying that abortion is never good in any case would change their tunes pretty quickly if their g/f, sister, or mother became pregnant due to a rape and didn't want to carry a child that resulted.

Like I said before, this can be looked at like the gay marriage thing...not everyone has the same morals, values, or beliefs. Let it be, let people make their own choices. What skin is it off your ass if the girl down the street wants to get an abortion? If she's on welfare, hell, she'll save you money in the longrun by not bringing another child to this earth! There are enough people here already. Granted, people should use more tact and a little more birth control, but I do believe that abortion should always be a choice, simply because that's our right. As for a woman being a "receptacle," haven't we moved past this? It seems so old fasioned to say something like that. I plan on never having children...does that mean that I'm denying what I was made to do? I think not...


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

What I don't understand is this. This is supposed to be the land of the free. Regardless of when the baby becomes a life. Regardless of if it is part of a woman's body or she is just a "receptacle", how can the government tell someone what decision they have to make in a free country?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Denver said:


> What I don't understand is this. This is supposed to be the land of the free. Regardless of when the baby becomes a life. Regardless of if it is part of a woman's body or she is just a "receptacle", how can the government tell someone what decision they have to make in a free country?


 because it is not their decision to make. 
The right to life is protected by the Constitution of this country.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Xenon said:


> Denver said:
> 
> 
> > What I don't understand is this. This is supposed to be the land of the free. Regardless of when the baby becomes a life. Regardless of if it is part of a woman's body or she is just a "receptacle", how can the government tell someone what decision they have to make in a free country?
> ...


 I read your argument like 10 times over and looking at it from that angle I see where you are coming from. It's a belief, I don't think any of us can change each other beliefs. So nobody can really say who's wrong or right. I don't understand this, if at conception that is a child and can be murdered, what if the mother forces herself to miscarry? Do we charge her with murder? What if the mother is on drugs and the child becomes addicted? Do we charge her with child abuse? What if the mother gives herself an alleyway abortion, is that murder too? Should we put the mother to death because she decided she didn't want to carry her own child?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

The protection of Life is a major pillar of the Constitution. At its most base, the Constitution directly tells our government what they can and cant do in respects to our individual freedom. From your argument, the government has no business prosecuting us for going around killing people that looked at us wrong simply because it was our _decision_. With freedom comes responsibility, and that is to abide by and uphold the laws of the land. Unfortunatly in this case, the "laws" (albeit common law) is in complete contradiction to the Constitution of the United States.



> I don't understand this, if at conception that is a child and can be murdered, what if the mother forces herself to miscarry?


FORCES herself, or it happens? If she forces herself by purposefully falling down the stairs, its the same as an abortion, ending a life. Murder.



> What if the mother is on drugs and the child becomes addicted? Do we charge her with child abuse?


Good point. I am not sure of the penalites but something should be done for this mothers indiscretion.



> What if the mother gives herself an alleyway abortion, is that murder too?


yes.



> Should we put the mother to death because she decided she didn't want to carry her own child?


Its not her choice to make whether or not she wants the child.

People need to realize that the government has already provided options for mothers unfit to have or care for a child. There is no reason to kill a human life simply because you dont want it.... or it was an accident. Responsibility and duty are all too often shirked in this society and "freedom" is used as a crutch to support these flawed ideals.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Xenon said:


> The protection of Life is a major pillar of the Constitution. At its most base, the Constitution directly tells our government what they can and cant do in respects to our individual freedom. From your argument, the government has no business prosecuting us for going around killing people that looked at us wrong simply because it was our _decision_. With freedom comes responsibility, and that is to abide by and uphold the laws of the land. Unfortunatly in this case, the "laws" (albeit common law) is in complete contradiction to the Constitution of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to argue that we can go around killing people with no discretion. I personally believe that while the mother is carrying that child, it is a part of the woman. 
From your arguments, I can see these types of situations now. Hypothetically if abortion was made illegal. An 18 year old girl is raped, gives herself an abortion, and has to go to the hospital because she is going to die from bleeding. She is arrested, charged with murder 1, convicted, and sentenced to the death penalty. The state murders her a few years later. Or she is put behind bars for life.

This doesn't sound like the America I want to live in


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Denver said:


> This doesn't sound like the America I want to live in


 Fortunatly we allow people to leave this country if they choose. I still have yet to see Alec Baldwin go to Canada.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Xenon said:


> Denver said:
> 
> 
> > This doesn't sound like the America I want to live in
> ...


 The same boring argument. Is that what freedom stands for? If you don't agree with me then leave


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Denver said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > Denver said:
> ...


see above post. With freedom comes responsibility. If you cant handle the responsibility, I am sure there are countries that have less freedom with less responsibilities.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Certainly I understand that with freedom comes responsiblity. Freedom also means freedom of opinion. Fortunately, nobody can tell me to leave this country as I am an American born citzen and a US Marine (former). Unfortunately, people are not perfect (most of us at least), people do not always live every minute of their lives responsibly. Which may be the reason we have mothers in this country ditching their kids in trashcans and cardboard boxes. And may be the reason that some woman make the hard decision to have an abortion.


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## Black-Phoenix (Oct 21, 2003)

Pro-choise. If the Featus can't survive on its own then there should be no law against it. I don't support the dumb bitch and prick that think it is a form of birth controle, but it cirtainly has an important place in the order of things. In some cases abortion is better for the Parent(s) and the unborn.

Have you acctually been to an orphanage? Seen the Child servises life? If there are all these Teeming masses ready to adopt why are countless childern never adopted, or adopted into a loving home?

To all those that are saying that it is life no matter what and EVERY "one" has the right to it let me ask you this, Isn't the Billions of excess people the sole reason you world is going to sh*t? Isn't over population the root of millions starving in eathiopia? The ozone depleating? Rainforests being leveled? countless flora and fauna going extinc every year? The Polution that kills asmatics and gives all us non smokers cancer? The root of all these problems are us. PEOPLE! Mabe we should make the cures for cancer and heart attacks _illeagel_ too because they contribute to the harm of the rest of the population by not culling the heard when nature says its time to ballance the system. Hey thats an UNPOPULAR idea now isn't it? But every ounce of it is true. Death isn't sexy, or fun but it is a nessary part of life.

So if someone isn't in a postion to properly raise a child and mold that life into a responsable, productive part of society then mabe it's best than fetus isn't alowed to grow and develope.

Utopia just isn't viable in todays world, so we are faced with some tough choises.
And all this comes from a man that has been with the same girl since high school (7 years now) and wouldn't even come close to considering an abortion now. WIle I am not ready for a child I know that I can do what needs to be done to enshure my self and my child lives a full, healthy and productive life.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Death isn't sexy







Great line. 
I agree with you 100%


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## Little Waffen (Mar 13, 2004)

I think it should be up to the woman, it's her body, her choice.


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## TonyTurbo29 (Aug 11, 2003)

What about the Dad??

Sure the woman inherits the responsiblity of carying the child to birth, but it was both of them that made it. Why not just kill your kid up to the age of 18. They're still a considered a child... what the hell eh??

Just because the child is in a protective shell(mother), dosen't make it any less appauling.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

TonyTurbo29 said:


> Just because the child is in a protective shell(mother), dosen't make it any less appauling.


the level (or rather, lack thereof) of mental development is what makes killing them justifiable. The only thing that sets **** sapiens apart from other animals is its intelligence, and babies lack this so therefore its not a problem to destroy them if desired.


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