# I Need Help With My Tank Setup.



## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi I'm new here. I have 4 RBP's in a 15 gallon tank which has a Sponge filter and live plants in it.

My question is Should I get a 75 Gallon tank or 55 gallon will do?
How often should I make 20% water changes since they produce a lot of waste.?

I KNOW THEY ARE CRAMPED IN THERE.
I am planning on getting a new tank by October.

I might post Pics soon
Sorry if I am doing things wrong I am only 2 weeks in the hobby

Thank you


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

I would definitely get a 75 gallon for the four reds...Once the tank is properly cycled, 20 - 30% weekly water changes should suffice...it's exactly what I do...







...just make sure your water parameters are up to par and you shouldn't have any problems.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks! 
What do you mean by water parameters? 
Sorry really new to the hobby.

What would you recommend? Gravel or Sand. I'm having a Hard time keeping my plants alive in gravel. Just thought it would be easier with sand.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

a 75 gallon blows a 55 away in terms of space. and its footprint isnt much larger. go with the 75 all day long bud! dont sweat being new...guess what, we all were. but upgrading from a 15 to a 75 is damn good! great tank to have. 
post pics of the guys if you're able to. any concerns or anything let us know. good luck man


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Dashina said:


> Thanks!
> What do you mean by water parameters?
> Sorry really new to the hobby.
> 
> What would you recommend? Gravel or Sand. I'm having a Hard time keeping my plants alive in gravel. Just thought it would be easier with sand.


water parameters are ammonia, nitrates, and nitrite readings, pH levels, etc....all of these are essential for a piranha's health and well being...lots of info on this website and on the internet concerning cycled tanks and the nitrogen cycle...I strongly advise you to take a few minutes of your time and read it and get to know about it...









I've always been a gravel person because beneficial because BB (beneficial bacteria) colonize in it and sometimes sand will clog your filters and can get a little messy...I don't use plants anymore (fake or real) so that is not a problem with me...but it's all about preference...IMO, I love giving my specimens every square inch of the tank to themselves as possible and all the swimming space possible!...


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## RayW (Jul 17, 2013)

I am not new to tanks... but new to the piranha keeping biz...

From what I have seen, 75g should be good for the four... but you can always go bigger. I have 2 8 inch RBPs in a 55 and I think it is BARELY enough space. I got them from a guy that had 4 in a 75g... they seemed happy enough they gew to be 8in so I guess they were good. If you have the room and money... I would go even bigger tho... maybe a 90 or something... (bigger is always better...lol) but like Oce and Manster said, 75 should be just fine.

I like gravel better than sand for a few reasons... but all that can be researched on this site.

Same for the water cycle and water paramters...look over the water chemestry forum section. then come back with any specific questions you have that the readings didn't answer. (I know I had to make at least one post about water chemistry) There are several good members on here that will help you out.

The Plants... I have fake plants in my tank... only because I know my RBP's like the dark or when its dim in the room... plants need light.. I would rather my fish be happy than have a planted tank... tho plated tanks are cool as hell. IMO. with having your little tank you have now... those fish need every square centimeter you can get...I would ditch the plants for now...then when you get your 75g or whatever you decide... throw some plants in then.

Oh... and with that small of a tank... you gotta really keep an eye on the water paramters... they can spike quickly in smaller tanks... make sure you take out any un-eaten food pretty quickly...


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Oh. nitrates and other stuff are called water parameters.

I just bought a bigger Sponge filter and a Driftwood about a foot long.
I did research and found out Sponge filters are good filters to house Beneficial bacteria so I got my reds a bigger one.

I also read that driftwood cannot be added directly to the tank as they contain tanic acid which can affect my water parameters.
It says that I need to soak my driftwood 1 week before adding to the tank.
Is There any way to speed up the process?


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## RayW (Jul 17, 2013)

Sorry... I know Nothing about driftwood....


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Dashina said:


> Oh. nitrates and other stuff are called water parameters.
> 
> I just bought a bigger Sponge filter and a Driftwood about a foot long.
> I did research and found out Sponge filters are good filters to house Beneficial bacteria so I got my reds a bigger one.
> ...


yes, you can boil the driftwood!...this has several advantages...1)first and foremost, it will make the tannis leak out faster which in turn makes the curing process go by a lot faster...so maybe you can soak it for a couple of days instead of a week...it depends on how buoyant your piece is...2)More importantly, boiling sterilizes the driftwood, killing algae and fungal spores that can take hold once introduced into the aquarium with the driftwood. You only need to boil for about 1 - 2 hrs...


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## RayW (Jul 17, 2013)

Ahhh... good to know if I ever buy any!


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

im the only person i know who actually liked the dye driftwood does to a tank. people generally hate that the product can turn water into tea for a few days/weeks but i always likened it to a murky river. 
but the boiling advice is solid for any product. you figure most products on a shelf have been handled and what not for the entire time theyve been manufactured, shipped, displayed, etc. good precautionary habit.

i actually have more driftwood then i know what to do with since i downgraded my tanks for space issues.


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## Bobbyd123 (Jun 9, 2013)

My advice ocellatus2000 is keep the wood! I gave away so much stuff in my day then always regreted it. Cuz could have used it later. Unless u want to sell/ Giv it another hobbyist and r positive u wont need it again


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

i kept most of it. much of it i sold with an old tank a few years ago...but they were pieces i wouldnt miss. definitely tho, bogwood aint cheap


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your answers

I have soaked the driftwood for 1 whole day but the water color did not change. Also brushed off any algae on the wood. If there is no color, can I add it already?
Driftwood is to big to be boiled.

I kept the large sponge filter on my feeder tank so bacteria would grow. How long before they establish? So I can put it in my main tank.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

usually a few weeks before bacteria really gets established in a tank.

the wood is ready to add yes. no worries. and yes im well aware much of it (if not all) is too large to boil. a good rinsing is all thats really needed in most cases unless we're talking about stuff picked from a lake or river outdoors.


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Please keep us updated on how things progress!...


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## Ahmed (Jun 23, 2007)

The bigger the tank, the bigger your fish will grow! And remember to add some current using a power head. P's are river fish and swim against current!


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Ahmed said:


> The bigger the tank, the bigger your fish will grow! And remember to add some current using a power head. P's are river fish and swim against current!


While that is true Ahmed it's not necessarily the case...I've grown some big piranhas in standard 30 gallon tanks, 40 B, and 55'ers!...Ample filtration, good water quality and parameters, and varied diet = excellent growth!...


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## RayW (Jul 17, 2013)

Don't they say the same thing about cichlids? they need room to grow? My GFs cousin has one (no I don't remember what kind) but it is in a 20+g octogon tank... and it is HUGE!!! so I am sure there are many exceptions to the general rule of thumb. ... but with that said... I like bigger tanks for multiple P's... after having mine for many weeks... I really wish I had a bigger tank... just glad my filtration is keeping up!


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

I added my driftwood already and here are some pics. I also have Live plants which I have trouble with since they are always dying.


























Here are pictures of my guys eating shrimp.










I've got some new problem guys.

1. I have seem small swimming white dust size organisms on my tank (they are alive)
2. The Biggest one of them gobbles up everything. He is also the first one to attack when I put feeder fish. The problem is he is outgrowing the others and might kill someone in the tank.( does this happen?)


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

I would say the white swimming organisms are planaria!...they are harmless but unsightly!...add a little salt, bump up the temp to 88 for a few days, and then back down...do more frequent water changes and make sure there isn't any uneaten food that is rotting somewhere...bad water quality and uneaten food is usually the reason why you get planaria...and yes, if one of your pygos is growing faster than the others and gobbling up all the food or most of it, he is obviously the leader of the pack and the dominant alpha of the bunch...chances are that he might kill one or the rest of the pack as time goes on especially if one of them gets sick or wounded...Keep an eye out for overly aggressive behavior...


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Great news!
I have already bought my 75 gallon tank and wanna start cycling it. However I want minimize cash spending as much as possible.

I am going to make my own canister filter. Already found a tutorial in youtube.

Is it ok if i use construction gravel?
They are cheaper than what lfs sell.

I have searched 7 lfs today looking for a test kit but no luck. I dont think something is wrong with my water though. They are active and their colors on belly are very vibrant.

Another problem is lfs in my area do not sell filter media.
Is there any substitute for ceramic rings that can be found in commonly in markets?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Just going to come out and say it... Making your own canister filter, or overflow box are the 2 guaranteed ways to flood your house.

For filter media, scrubbies (the plastic dish scrubbers with NO soap) from the dollar store work great, so does any porous rocks.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks.

I still wanna make my own. I think it will be fun. Ill just double seal everything to be sure. Besides canister filters sold in lfs dont look good .

How do I maintain my filter? How do I clean my bio media without getting BB killed. And how often?

How bout the construction gravel?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

The problem isnt seals, its gravity... there are 100s of factors you arent even thinking about until you watch a siphon drain your tank onto the floor, or the power fails and floods when it kicks back on. Creating a true "closed loop" isnt easy, and I would suggest buying one vs the man hours it would take to create one. Ontop of that, making a sump (same concept but open air) is cheaper, more reliable, and easier to understand.

I rinse sponges or filter floss every few weeks, and all the media monthly... typically shake it around in a bucket of tank water during a water change. DO not use any tap water or hot / cold as it will kill your BB.

weekly gravel vacuuming is a good routine, i do half my tank one week, other half the next.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Making my own sump would end up Cheaper. I'll Get rid of my 15 Gallon Feeder tank








It is decided! I am making a Sump!

Already Found a Tutorial in youtube. Please Tell me what you think about it.
Tutorial on Sump

But I need advice on making an overflow system. Can you give me a good tutorial on that? No Drilling of aquarium please.
I found one here. But you guys might have a better Idea  
Overflow


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

For an overflow, drilling is the ideal way to go... a site online sells overflow box kits that work great (glass-holes.com I think?). If thats not an option you have to use a HOB overflow box. I would suggest checking on Ebay or somewhere online to find a cheaper used one... They can be made, but because of what a big risk it is I wouldnt suggest it.

As I said before, I dont mess around with things that can cause a flood if a failure occurs... If things are done right the first time, theres 0 chance of a flood or problems from a sump.

THIS is a great link to learn about sumps.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Do a search for overhead filters. Never mind, here: My link

All you need is a power head to pump water up into a container, through media and drop back into the tank. Power goes out power head shuts off no water is pumped up and nothing can overflow.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Overhead is a great idea but I need another pump for that. Can i keep my sump tank beside the main tank?
Or it should always be below the tank?

Would a water pump 250 gph be enough?


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Just want to advise everybody that sponge filters are no a great Idea on RBP. My babies ripped them apart and now I have trouble cleaning everything and siphoning.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Dashina said:


> Overhead is a great idea but I need another pump for that. Can i keep my sump tank beside the main tank?
> Or it should always be below the tank?
> 
> Would a water pump 250 gph be enough?


You will need 1 pump for a sump above the tank or below it.

Beside the display doesnt really work as its hard to control the flow through. Above or below you have gravity doing work for you.

No, you will want way more flow than that for a 55 or 75 gal tank... something to the tune of 600 - 800 GPH AFTER HEAD LOSS. You will need to look at a chart for the pump, measure from the bottom of your sump to the top rim of the display, and pick a pump accordingly. Its typically around 4-5' vertical


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Bought a test kit today and found out my ph is bonkers. Can fish waste affect ph? Should i bring it lower? Or it will just stress my fish?


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Dashina said:


> Bought a test kit today and found out my ph is bonkers. Can fish waste affect ph? Should i bring it lower? Or it will just stress my fish?


Not to be harsh but if you don't know about the relation of waste to pH to need to do some basic research on fish keeping. Yes, it has a definite effect.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Sorry bout that but i dont think it is because of fish waste. Ammonia levels are fine.
Problem seems to be from my tap water. Should i bring it lower or just leave it be? My piranhas seems to be ok from it. Tank has been running for a month now..


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Dashina said:


> Sorry bout that but i dont think it is because of fish waste. Ammonia levels are fine.
> Problem seems to be from my tap water. Should i bring it lower or just leave it be? My piranhas seems to be ok from it. Tank has been running for a month now..


Ammonia levels and pH levels are two different things...your question was about pH levels in relation to fish waste...yes, fish waste makes water more "acidic"....and yes it will raise ammonia levels if you don't do your water changes...your pH is alkaline and seems to be at least 7.6 or higher (which is basically just straight tap water)...piranha do best between 6.0 - 7.0...however, since you've already got your fish in there it is more important to keep a steady pH than one that fluctuates...


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Dashina said:


> Sorry bout that but i dont think it is because of fish waste. Ammonia levels are fine.
> Problem seems to be from my tap water. Should i bring it lower or just leave it be? My piranhas seems to be ok from it. Tank has been running for a month now..


This post shows that you don't have a firm grasp of the basics. Seriously, I'm not saying this to be mean but you need to read more and ask less. Unless you know what goes on in a cycle and why you change water then you don't have the information to understand what's happening in your tank, no matter how many questions you ask you won't have the framework to fit the answers into and you're just going to be chasing problems and reacting to things that are going to keep occurring.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

One of my reds got eaten today I only have 3 left. Maybe I'm just not fit for this thing. I'll just sell them. Sorry for the trouble and thank you for those who helped me a lot especially Ægir.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

I would encourage you to not give up so easily... we all have losses and learning curves.

You have already learned most of what you need to know and made leaps and bounds. The nitrogen cycle is simple to learn and there is lots of information... If I wasnt on my phone at 430am, I would attach some links.

I will check back tomorrow and post some if ya havent responded.


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## Scorpa54 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dashina said:


> Is it ok if i use construction gravel?
> They are cheaper than what lfs sell.


The thing about construction gravel is that there is a real possibility that there could be "drippings" from oil pans, transmissions and the like. That does not mean to say that it cannot be used but a lot of extra preparation to make sure it is safe would be required.


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## vince.v (Jul 25, 2013)

Death of a piranha in a pack is common i guess,i've just collected a head of a RBP mutilated at my local lfs...in a tank estimated containing 30pc of em.Dont giveup just because one of them got killed... .we learn from our mistakes, take precaution and never let them starve again.Hope to hear from TS again.
Ps: im a noob in Piranha keeping aswell,bout 2months +.


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Thank you those who were very supportive!
Did not quit but from the past week I have been reading a lot about Cycling tanks and other important things.

I will post pics by friday after my reds are in. Just wanna make sure that cycle is complete.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Good to hear! Learning a few simple things now will save you lots of headaches and trouble in the future!


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## RayW (Jul 17, 2013)

Looks like I will be going through the same thing soon dashina... I will be picking up a 150G tank and stand here shortly and will have to cycle... not looking forward to that boring time...lol


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Good to hear!...


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

The Reds are in! Im lame at decorating tanks forgive me. I really need to conceal that DIY Overflow PVC I made.
Here are some info of my tank in case someone was curious

*Tank*: 75 Gallon 
*Filters*: 15 Gallon DIY Sump and Blacknight (4) Topfilter
*Return Pump*: Resun (520 GPH)
*Substrate*: Sand
*Fish*: Pygo Natteri
*Plants*: No Idea ( Was Labeled as "Aquarium Plant" in my LFS)
*Light*: 30 watt pink
*PH*: 7.8 or higher (I already acclimated them to this PH)

Pictures:
*TANK*

















*SUMP*









*Pics of my fish. There are 3 of them but 1 of them was frightened when I transferred them to the new tank. He hid behind a rock when I was taking pictures.*


























*Advice for others:*

Use BioDigest when cycling the tank! Google this product! It really speeds up the cycle.
I find sand very hard to clean compared to gravel.
find alternatives for your filter media because bio balls and ceramic rings are expensive.

Should I just Paint the back of my tank black?

Any advice will be appreciated!











RayW said:


> Looks like I will be going through the same thing soon dashina... I will be picking up a 150G tank and stand here shortly and will have to cycle... not looking forward to that boring time...lol


Cycling time is really boring LOL. I was itching to put my reds in the 75 Gal after I filled it with water!


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Looking good, man!...







..As far as painting your tank, that is just a matter of preference...do whatever pleases you...


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## Dashina (Aug 19, 2013)

Da said:


> Looking good, man!...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Maybe I'll just leave it that way it looks greener


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## RayW (Jul 17, 2013)

Hummmm....I have a background (drift wood and rocks and black space) on my 55g.... not sure what to do with the 150g... gotta think of what to do soon...I want to get the tank filled ASAP...Just got the electrical done for it today. was thinking the same as on the 55 or maybe just a black background

Keep us updated on how well that DIY sump works out over time.


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