# Wet/dry



## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

So I took advantage of a sale and built a wet/dry from a 20g long. I got the tank new for $20.
I already have a pump that would be perfect for the sump. I have not decided on media just yet. Im thinking about filling the box the remainder of the way with bio balls.

Im am planning to put this on my 180g predrilled tank. I want to put this on one of the overflows and my FX5 on the other overflow. Does anyone have experience hooking an FX5 to an overflow?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

thundergolf said:


> So I took advantage of a sale and built a wet/dry from a 20g long. I got the tank new for $20.
> I already have a pump that would be perfect for the sump. I have not decided on media just yet. Im thinking about filling the box the remainder of the way with bio balls.
> 
> Im am planning to put this on my 180g predrilled tank. I want to put this on one of the overflows and my FX5 on the other overflow. Does anyone have experience hooking an *FX5 to an overflow*?


Yeah, dont... risk of running it dry when the sump pump is off and burning your canister pump up.


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA (Dec 8, 2003)

I think you are going to need more than a 20 Long for a sump on a 180. I built one with Jmax a few weeks ago that was a 40 Long and that is about as small as you can go. More than likely if your pump stops your over flow will over flow. If you want to run the FX5 you should just cap of one of the drains and just use the FX5 with the stock inlet and out let.


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Ægir said:


> I think you are going to need more than a 20 Long for a sump on a 180. I built one with Jmax a few weeks ago that was a 40 Long and that is about as small as you can go. More than likely if your pump stops your over flow will over flow. If you want to run the FX5 you should just cap of one of the drains and just use the FX5 with the stock inlet and out let.


Do you know how i can upload a pic it doesnt seem to be working? I built a container above the tank this will add space for filtration and bio media. This along side a Fx5 seems like it would be plenty. Just an experiment.


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## Inflade (Mar 24, 2006)

you need at least a 40 gallon for a sump, and that is the smallest you should go. i had a 50 on my 220 and i thought it wasnt enough


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

thundergolf said:


> If i have them both on the same surge and the power goes out they would both shut off.
> I was concerned with the FX5 sucking to much air.


what if the return pump fails/dies, what if the pump intake be comes clogged etc etc...

Its asking for trouble eventually, so setup the canister like it should be, and the sump like it should with 2 overflows.

and yes you will prob need a bigger sump


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Don't run any cannisters on an overflow. The water on a sump will drop to account for water lost. A cannister wont have evap so the tank will and your pump will run dry once the water is gettting under the overflow teeth. Like said a 20g isnt a ton for a 180 but it still can be efficient with some good media and a good design as 20g can hold plenty more media then a cannister filter


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA (Dec 8, 2003)

But the 20 gallon most likely will not hold the water coming from the over flows. A 20 will only hold 2" of water out of the tank so if his return or over flow is even 1" below the surface the sump will over flow. I see at a minimum you will keep 10 gallons in the sump at all times and if your pump fails or you lose power it will over flow. I would try and build one out of a 55 but a 40 long would work.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

True I wasn't even thinking about that though A wet/dry will be able to hold alot more water then a sump as it may be only half full of water but deffinity see how much water drains before the overflow box shuts it off


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA (Dec 8, 2003)

There is alot to think about before you start building. pump capacity,drip tray size,how much water your drains flow, and so on. If you start building and need some help do not be afraid to PM me. I am more than willing to help you any way I can. I if I cant help I am sure AE gir can help I know he has alot of experience with this kind of thing.


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

I thought that the FX5 was designed for up to 400 gallons, so I thought the wet/dry would just be extra filtration. 
I went with a 20 long to save some space under my cabinent. It was just a thought to hook them both to the overflows.
I thought that by hooking them both up, the wet/dry would help control the water level. Any evaporation would still result in a change 
to the water level in the wet/dry and not in the canister. I may be wrong and just run the FX5 standard as i have it now.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

thundergolf said:


> I thought that the FX5 was designed for up to 400 gallons, so I thought the wet/dry would just be extra filtration.
> I went with a 20 long to save some space under my cabinent. It was just a thought to hook them both to the overflows.
> I thought that by hooking them both up, the wet/dry would help control the water level. Any evaporation would still result in a change
> to the water level in the wet/dry and not in the canister. I may be wrong and just run the FX5 standard as i have it now.


Theres 1000 ways to configure it, so maybe a drawing would help us see what you are thinking?

Canister intake in overflow HOB
canister intake in overflow plumbed to drain
canister return in overflow (not efficient but the only "safe" way)
canister return in tank HOB
canister return to tank plumbed through overflow
on and on... the problem is the wet/dry WILL change water levels in your tank, and when the water drops to the level of the overflow and your FX5 is faster taking on water, you run it dry and burn it up

If it were my tank, i would use the FX5 for another tank (good reason for another tank if you need one?), and put a badass sump in the stand....

Dmackey setup a simple, and extremely effective sump using 2 5 gallon buckets full of media... its like a few FX5s on steroids
But hes a slacker and hasnt done a writeup yet


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

I was just going to mention doing 2x5g buckets.

Basically it consists of 2/5g buckets with the bottom having a ton of drill holes so water can flow through then the bucket will sit mayby 6" or more up on a pvc stand. You fill the bucket with media then put the filter intank in the bucket ideally with a driptray or something to evenly distribute the flow. The goal of the pvc is to raise the bucket so the media is exposed to air and allows for better filtration then you can have mayby 6" of water in the tank where it is pumped out. I know people also use those plastic seterlite shelves for wetdrys and just drill the bottom of each basket and then fill the basket with some media.


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Thinks for the replys and information.

I would really like to post a pics so you could see my wet/dry, but for some reason it wont let me upload anything/


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

thundergolf said:


> Thinks for the replys and information.
> 
> I would really like to post a pics so you could see my wet/dry, but for some reason it wont let me upload anything/


Check the file size, it may be too large.


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Ok i got a photo. Still havnt decided how im going to use this.

I have a drip tray on the top of the box with about 2" of mechanical filtration. Then a box of small bio balls.
I have some sponges at the bottom and some polishing filter in the outlet chamber. I may fill the remainder of the
box with 1.5" bio balls. I was reading that bio balls can be bad so im not sure about that yet.


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Here is a pic with the bio balls installed


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

the one suggestion I will make is to get rid of the bioballs and go for ceramic rings......Much more surface area and can fit more into said space.

Intake to sump should go into mechanical filtration(filtersock,etc,etc) and then hit biomedia and then return to tank.
You got an over complicated design already with mediocre (sp) filtration.....This is not going to due much on the 180 gal....But will be somewhat effective with FX.....


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

thundergolf said:


> Ok i got a photo. Still havnt decided how im going to use this.
> 
> I have a drip tray on the top of the box with about 2" of mechanical filtration. Then a box of small bio balls.
> I have some sponges at the bottom and some polishing filter in the outlet chamber. I may fill the remainder of the
> box with 1.5" bio balls. I was reading that bio balls can be bad so im not sure about that yet.


Its setup great for a smaller tank, but will be hard for that small of a tank to deal with the extra water (in plumbing and overflows) when your power is off... you will have to remove those baffles prob, because the intended water level for that sump is just above that line... it will overflow when you turn your power off, and if you run it below the baffles much it will make noise and possibly run the pump dry.

If you do use it, remove those big sponges at the bottom of the tower (or move them to the top) and just fill that with bio balls. You will have to clean them, and will want the sponges easily accessible. I think this sump was intended for saltwater, the center area would be a refugium, in your case you could fill it with some ceramic media or llava rock.

Bio balls can be bad, but thats mainly a saltwater thing... the problems are typically from lots of debris clogging them up over extended periods of time (years). With some pre-filter, and a close eye you should have no problems.

Like AK said, you could build a better setup easily... all you need is a bigger tank (as big as you can fit in your stand if you want, more water is better!) and some 5 gal buckets.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Yeah I just got done with a 7 page explination on another site..

Ak
Is starting to learn this stuff finally.....

Since christmas my sump on my 500 gal was down......I have been ripping it completely apart and rebuilding it right...

It makes a world of diffrence


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Here are pics of my tank.

The overflow boxes are on the sides of the rock wall.
Im still not understanding how my wet/dry will overflow without power. As soon as the power is lossed and the water
drops below the top of the boxes the siphon is lossed.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

HERE is a link that has a picture to explain it.

Gravity will cause all of the water in your plumbing, above your overflow box, and above your standpipe will flow down to the sump. Its all the water that is in "limbo" between your sump and tank to make things work.

To determine your max running level, you would fill your sump above your pump and turn it on until water flows over the overflow. Unplug it and wait for all the water to rush back to the sump (wait a few minutes)... and then fill the sump to about an inch from overflowing. When you turn the pump on, the sump is going to loose water (to fill the void between tank and sump) and then stabilize once it starts cycling... You should mark this level with a piece of tape or marker, because if you add more water than that and turn your pump off it will flood.

Lots of factors like where your siphon break is, height and type of standpipe in the overflow, and other factors like size and length of plumbing all contribute to how much water backflows


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

thundergolf said:


> Here are pics of my tank.
> 
> The overflow boxes are on the sides of the rock wall.
> Im still not understanding how my wet/dry will overflow without power. As soon as the power is lossed and the water
> drops below the top of the boxes the siphon is lossed.


 Just a one inch drop in a 180g is about 6g of water so assuming it will be about an inch and a half drop in display level before the overlfow cuts the flow to the sump off means that your sump would need to hold 10g of water above its normal capacity meaning its normal capacity cannot be more then 10g. 10g isnt a ton of water but when your dealing with a small sump on a large tank eventually a good chunck of the sump must be empty in order to hold that inch and a half of water from the maintank before the overflow box stops the flow.

For example on my 15g with a 10g sump there are 2" of height in my sump to hold any water that siphones in before the overflow stops it. The main tank is only 5g more but if your doing a tank thats 10x the sump instead of mayby 2" of room for a sump that is the same size as the display you will need mayby a quarter to a half of your sump empty as a 1" drop in a 180g is enough to fill a decent amoutn in your sump.

Id take out the second baffle as it will allow you to lower the sump water level and the second chamber seems to be for a refugium but in fw it will probably just be trapping debris that settles in the chamber since there would be little flow at the bottom of the chamber to disturb it.

You can find out exactly how much room you need to save in your sump by trying it out but be ready to stop any overflow if it may happen.


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## thundergolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks guys for the replys. I may just use it on my 60g. Then build another from a 55 that i have empty


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