# OMG Help MY P's just had babies



## Domelotta

I haven't been on this site in ages. My p's just spawned. The yellow eggs are hatching as I speak. The Male is guarding the area. Also the hatched ones are all in the top corner of the tank. I believed it was just chunky poop in the beginning and threw much of the eggs out. Once I realized they were eggs just now. I found the rest of them in a pot at the back of the tank. The p's are 6-8 inches now and are in a 50 gallon acrylic tank. I thought since I overstocked, there was no way for them to spawn, but I guess I was wrong. Please post the steps in taking care of them.

Thanks

Will post pics very soon


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## Domelotta

ok so I ended up transporting most of the swimmers and almost all the eggs into a 10 gallon tank. Used 100% of the parent tank water and started up a sponge filter. I remember this much from browsing the forums in the past. Some of them are dying, and others are thriving. I went to a pet store since I didn't know what to feed them and she suggested cyclops food. It is like little power food. I can't tell if they are eating it, but i think so. Anyways I'm still astounded that this happened given the parameters of my tank and the number of p's and size. The male is still chasing away the others from the nest although most of the remaining tank babies are all free swimmers. Sadly the others p's are eating them slowly as little snacks. I will transport the rest today, since these were the biggest and survivors that actually swam out of the siphon. Took a few photos of the eggs and fry and will upload soon.

anything else I should do?
help would be greatly appreciated.


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## lo4life

Hatch your own brine shrimp. Check out primetime3wise's thread on his macs that he got to breed. Alot of good info in there! GL


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## AKSkirmish

Link to breeding Macs-Alot of good info and well documented...

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=178332


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## Domelotta

Thanks for the link and help. Almost all my questions are answered.

I guess I'll siphon the gunk out of the fry tank and be careful not to replace too much of the water.
I will also start to feed bbs...although I don't really know what to do...... lol
any ideas on these? do i buy a hatchery and put it in the tank so they just eat them when they hatch?
Anyways thanks, I'll keep it updated.

p.s. anyone have ideas on how to get the rest of the swimmers out of the main tank? I think I was late
with putting the initial batch into a 10g tank, so there are a few that are just too strong to be siphoned.


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## lo4life

get a net and see if you can catch them.. if not add some fake plants so they MIGHT have a chance.


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## notaverage

Good luck...keep us updated!


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## jmax611

your gonna need more than a 10g


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## primetime3wise

here's a good link i used when i first started hatching baby brine shrimp:

http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/res-hatching-c169.html

i used a 2 liter plastic pop bottle to hatch them, instead of the cone the site recommends. simply add clean, dechlorinated, water, mixed with the bbs eggs/cysts, and salt, at the rate that site suggests. then an air stone for aeration and to mix everything up. i tilted the bottle about 45 degrees to help with that. i also placed it in one of my fry tanks because they hatch more quickly at 80 degrees, vs. standard room temperature of 68 or so. any non-iodized salt will do. i used a little baking soda, as well, but it's not necessary and i dunno how much it helped with hatching.

i used larger tanks for the fry, 30g and 40g. i dunno how well a 10g will work, even in the beginning. you will def. need larger if you plan to grow them out longterm. i have doubts if your 10g is even cycled, though it could be. i always used "Tetra Safe Start", which, imo, is as good as, or even better than the old product, bio-spira.

i would go very slowly on the water changes. for the first few weeks, very minimal, and maybe even none at all. they are not large enough to have a real detrimental effect on the tank's parameters. maybe use something very small, like air tubing for an air pump to suction out what little waste there is, and that's it. i dunno how many you have, but if its less than a few hundred, and in a 10g tank, don't do many water changes. start real small with like 1/2 gal/day, what you suction out with air tubing.

i'm not sure how old or large they are, but they will not start eating till there egg sac is consumed. you will see this when they belly disappears. you can start feeding em on day 6 or 7, usually.

the impulse, in the beggining, is to do a lot of water changes. i found the opposite to be true. i even had a 30g that i did nothing to for 3 weeks! w/ about 500+ fry and none died! then, i took one of the sponge filters out to try and cycle another tank, and 90% were dead, overnight!!. they are so sensitive to water quality at this stage.

also, the tendency is to overfeed them w/ bbs, in the beginning. stay easy on it until you get a good idea of how much they can consume per feeding. 5 or 6 smaller feedings is better than 3 large ones. they really can't consume much for the first few weeks. you will only get a good idea after doing it, yourself. i'm not sure what you are feeding them now, i never heard of it, but they do prefer live, so bbs works well. hehe, then when they get larger, like 1/2", you will spend a small fortune on keeping their bellies full. then the real fun begins when you get them to the size that they start cannibalizing, lol.

depending on how many you have, yeah, a 10g is fine for 2-3 weeks, but yeah, like jmax said you are gonna need a lot more space if you do this longterm.

a common mistake, and i want to repeat this, is doing too much and too many water changes. esp. in a 10g, you are not even sure if it is fully cycled. even a little chlorine could have dire consequences. you will think that they need plenty of fresh water, but it can have disasterous consequences on the tank. i've read of several people trying to do big water changes, daily, then the fry end up dying. in this scenario, less is better. they are so sensitive and delicate, the first few weeks, so be careful. i found once they were, say 1/4", they seemed to have more immunity, and were hardier. also, because they will be producing more waste, after a few weeks, that is when, for sure, you want to start with daily water changes. i started w/ 100% of water from the parent tank, then slowly over the course of weeks, added some fresh, tap water, dechlorinated, or course. i slowly adjusted the ratio of parent water to tap water.

g/l.


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## Domelotta

Thanks for all the great info. I set up a bbs hatchery in the tank so they can eat when they want I guess. Also, all the eggs that remained seem to have developed eyes. I thought a lot were dead because they were laying on their sides but I tapped the tank and they all moved so thats exciting. The swimmers from the parent tank all alreadu used up their sacs. The others are starting to swim with their sacs. I haven't done any water changes and used all the water from the parent tank to fill it. I also put some substrate from the original tank in it to do as much of the cycling as i could. So far there aren't really many casualties. There is a dead white one floating here and there, but no big numbers. Compared to how many there are the fraction dead is minimal.

I don't know if I have room for another tank







but my lfs said she would buy a bunch my hands once they are the size of a quarter, so hopefully they will be able to do this. If not I really have no other options. Considering I accidentally threw a huge cluster of eggs away in the beginning on accident these there shouldn't be that many I'm guessing. Even buy just looking I can't tell number-wise.

As for the survivors in the main tank, they are still there and I took as many as I could out. I guess the rest will remain an experiment to see how long they can survive before I can get them with a net or before they are eaten. The big p's don't seem to mind them anymore since there are much less of them. I also put a few fake plants in the tank as suggested and sure enough they hide in them.

Here are some shots of the baby tank. Post any other suggestions or comments please.
I want to make sure I do this right.









View attachment 177005

The mother of the babies

View attachment 177006

Eggs two days ago

View attachment 177007

Eggs today

View attachment 177008

Tank setup


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## primetime3wise

they look ok. i dunno how well that hatch'n'feeder works, i always fed mine, myself, but it could work, i guess. the issue would be if they are getting enough to eat. a 10g is def. way too small, longterm. looks like you have a ton of fry, as well. there is no way you will be able to keep a few hundred even at dime size. i'm not sure what you are able to do as far as space, i'm just telling you it's not gonna work, longterm, growing them out to 1" in a 10g. you'll be fine for a few weeks. only option i can see is moving them to the parent tank, but using a divider, in a few weeks.


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## Domelotta

Yea, I know that food will be an issue for a while, but for now I have their feeding schedule going nice. Almost no casualties today. They seem to be doing very well.

As far as feeding, along with the bbs how many times should I feed them. I do once in the morning and let them get the bbs the rest of the day. Once I'm out of this batch I'll just throw in another packet. They seem to be hatching fine (can't really tell because they are microscopic) but the white final product seems to be what they are eating so I'm guessing those are the shrimp.

I will keep as many alive as I can in the 10g and then I'll have to divide my other tank, just until I can sell a decent amount of them. How many total fry do you estimate there are? I can't really make a good judgement as this is my first time at it. I was hopin for at least a 60 survivor turnout, but right now its seems like it might be more, knock on wood.

Once there are more grown I'll post more pics. This whole process just makes me really excited







I just want to make sure everything goes right and I don't kill that many, so how much I feed is my main concern because I have seen a couple of the oldest ones die 2 days ago because of too much food. Their bellies were uber-inflated. Since there is such a wide variation amongst the sizes and the stages of their growth I'm not positive what to do.

Again thanks for all this info and help, I truly appreciate it.


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## primetime3wise

Domelotta said:


> Yea, I know that food will be an issue for a while, but for now I have their feeding schedule going nice. Almost no casualties today. They seem to be doing very well.
> 
> As far as feeding, along with the bbs how many times should I feed them. I do once in the morning and let them get the bbs the rest of the day. Once I'm out of this batch I'll just throw in another packet. They seem to be hatching fine (can't really tell because they are microscopic) but the white final product seems to be what they are eating so I'm guessing those are the shrimp.
> 
> I will keep as many alive as I can in the 10g and then I'll have to divide my other tank, just until I can sell a decent amount of them. How many total fry do you estimate there are? I can't really make a good judgement as this is my first time at it. I was hopin for at least a 60 survivor turnout, but right now its seems like it might be more, knock on wood.
> 
> Once there are more grown I'll post more pics. This whole process just makes me really excited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to make sure everything goes right and I don't kill that many, so how much I feed is my main concern because I have seen a couple of the oldest ones die 2 days ago because of too much food. Their bellies were uber-inflated. Since there is such a wide variation amongst the sizes and the stages of their growth I'm not positive what to do.
> 
> Again thanks for all this info and help, I truly appreciate it.


you might be mistaking what you think is a "uber-inflated" belly, for what is really just them at the stage where they are enveloping and consuming their eggs sac. typically, bbs is not started until day 6 or 7. after their large belly is gone, then you start.

i can't really tell how many you have there, but it looks like it could be a hell of a lot. you could easily have several hundred, and you won't be able to tell until they start moving around a little more, or you stir up them piling onto each other.

i fed mine like 4-5x's per day, in really small amounts. i have never used that "hatch'n'feed", so i really dunno how well it works. if you do underfeed a little i don't see it as a major problem, esp. since your tendency will be to really overfeed, in the beginning. again, you wait till their "belly" looks like it is disappearing, then they need outside nourishment.

i always hatched bbs, first thing in the morning, every day and over time, got a much better sense of how much to feed, and subsequently hatch the next day. so, like i said, i dunno how well an automatic hatch and feeder works.

looking at that again, it does look like you have several hundred there, at least. they like to pile on top of each other at this stage, in clumps. and, going by the pictures and not the dates of these posts, they do look like they are about ready for bbs...the little that is in their bellies, looks almost consumed.


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## Domelotta

The packet of bbs from the hatchery is almost all used up. There is about a days worth more of the shrimp swimming out I'm guessing.

I was getting worried when I looked at the clumps of swimmers. They seemed to be very very tight and some were forced under. I don't know if that is why they died or what, but a small percentage of them turned pale white and were dead. I decided to blow the clusters around a bit to stir up the dead bodies and clean up a bit. I don't know if disease or something might kill the others. What would you recommend to keep them from dying in this case? There are a lot of swimmers. After stirring it around for a bit I saw dozens scurry to every corner. Also does this stress them too much? I think I may do it daily if not because it seems like the dead white bodies on top are increases in numbers.


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## primetime3wise

i wouldn't concern myself with that, much. they like to pile on the dead ones, i've notcied...probably to TRY and feed on them, even though they physically can't. my fry did not start cannibalizing until a full 1". you can use a small siphon to suck the dead ones out, if you want, like the air tubing you would use for an air pump...turning it into a mini siphon. they will start moving more in the coming days, again, after they fully consume their egg sac. a good way to tell is just to look at their tiny little bellies.

even with a fully cycled tank you will lose some. about the best you can do is make sure the tank is cycled with adequate (sponge) filtration and food. what i think works well is to not make any, even moderate, changes in the beginning, that may upset tank chemistry. i've seen threads where people are replacing 25% of the water from the start, and then wonder why they are losing fish, continuously. i don't think the amount of food, bbs, the first few weeks is enough to upset tank chemistry to the point you need large water changes.

i know how it is in the beginning, you want to have everything perfect and not lose any, so you over analyze it. you'll find with experience you'll relax more and intuitively know what to do. some losses are unavoidable, esp. with your very first batch.

g/l. think about how many would survive in the wild, it would be astronomically low.


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## Domelotta

Thanks, sounds good.

I'll keep this thread updated every few days with pics and whatnot. And any questions I'll also mention. Again this really did help.


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## primetime3wise

i do think you should transition, in the beginning to hatching your own bbs, every day. it will give you a good idea of how much nourishment they need. start really, really small, like hatching 1/2 tsp, then go from there. you'd be really surprised about how many live bbs come from the eggs/cysts. again, i fed like 4-5x's a day, really small amounts in the beginning. 
it can be a lot of meticulous, diligent work. if you find yourself enjoying it, long term, kudos to you, i found it quite irritating after a while (lol @ me).


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## Domelotta

primetime3wise said:


> i do think you should transition, in the beginning to hatching your own bbs, every day. it will give you a good idea of how much nourishment they need. start really, really small, like hatching 1/2 tsp, then go from there. you'd be really surprised about how many live bbs come from the eggs/cysts. again, i fed like 4-5x's a day, really small amounts in the beginning.
> it can be a lot of meticulous, diligent work. if you find yourself enjoying it, long term, kudos to you, i found it quite irritating after a while (lol @ me).


ok so hatching them by hand, do I just use the mixture in the packet in a bubbling bottle and then suck the shrimp up after like 2 days and inject into the tank?


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## primetime3wise

not sure if what you have would work. most pet stores will have bbs eggs/cysts. you probably can, just not 100% sure. that link i posted will give you the instructions and proper amounts of eggs, water, and (aquarium, non-iodized) salt. a little baking soda may help as well. you just put the proper amounts in like a 2 liter pop bottle, insert a small air stone, wait 18-24 hrs, then hatch them. it's supposed to also help have a light over them while they are hatching. take a look at that link and/or google "hatching baby brine shrimp".

the only tricky part can be seperating the hatched eggs from the unhatched one. some stores do sell little nets just for that. i found a relatively easy way, that works for others as well, is to use a turkey baster when attempting to feed them. you can get away w/ every other day if you store the hatched eggs correctly w/ proper amounts of salt and clean fresh water, and perhaps, refrigeration.


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## Domelotta

Is it ok to crush up flake food as well? They seem to be avoiding some of the shrimps. There are a few eggs that left the hatch and grow too and they eat them. Is that ok? I mean right now they look skinny and the current batch won't be hatched till tomorrow.


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## primetime3wise

Domelotta said:


> Is it ok to crush up flake food as well? They seem to be avoiding some of the shrimps. There are a few eggs that left the hatch and grow too and they eat them. Is that ok? I mean right now they look skinny and the current batch won't be hatched till tomorrow.


i've heard they can take up crushed flake food. i never tried it myself, but i have heard of it being done several times.


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## Domelotta

primetime3wise said:


> Is it ok to crush up flake food as well? They seem to be avoiding some of the shrimps. There are a few eggs that left the hatch and grow too and they eat them. Is that ok? I mean right now they look skinny and the current batch won't be hatched till tomorrow.


i've heard they can take up crushed flake food. i never tried it myself, but i have heard of it being done several times.
[/quote]

ok I'll give it a try, just a for a bit. I need to get these brine shrimp hatched and the pre-made packet says 48 hours so I'll need something for tomorrow. But if they eat brine shrimp eggs is that ok?


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## Guest

You can also feed the fry a powdered food. I used a product called Sera Micron. It is such a small partical that it can be fed to Brine shrimp! This is what I preferred to use when breeding Angels. You can tell they are eating it because the stomachs turn green. Very good product. I look forward to your updated pics


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## Domelotta

ksls said:


> You can also feed the fry a powdered food. I used a product called Sera Micron. It is such a small partical that it can be fed to Brine shrimp! This is what I preferred to use when breeding Angels. You can tell they are eating it because the stomachs turn green. Very good product. I look forward to your updated pics


Thank you I will check this out. I really need to make sure they eat because to my surprise this morning all the fish were swimming. There were hundreds. Also inside of the hatchery that I have a few of the curious swimmers are stuck. I didn't know how to get them out so their fate is sealed. They are too fat to get through the main exit and are lodged in with the eggs. There are only a few that did this though.

I tried giving crushed flake food today and I'm not sure if they ate it. Also with the brine shrimp in mason jars I'm trying, I don't know if I didn't add enough salt or what but they just aren't hatching. Sad, because I desperately need to feed these babies. I'll take a pic tomorrow. Hopefully I can find that Micron food before its too late. Anything else you would recommend feeding them? I am just really having no luck with these brine. (don't really know why) I used this as an example. Mine look identical to it. Only I added a pack of premade brine mix. 
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_...mp_hatchery.php

also does temperature play a big role? I left it at room temp...but in my house its at 66* so I wasn't sure if it was too cold for them to hatch. I just checked the hatchery in the tank with a flashlight and sure enough there are some (very very tiny) but still a couple hundred I'm guessing. Hopefully they swim up the valve soon so they can be food


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## Domelotta

I tried one final attempt to hatch myself brine shrimp. The only factor that I think could have played a big role is the heat. So I filled a 10 gallon tank 1/3 of the way and put a heater in it along with a mason jar. So the shrimp should be finally hatch. All factors have been resolved. If this doesn't work I think I'll just give up.









Well heres some pics
View attachment 177212

The little babies scurrying around
View attachment 177213

The sponge filter has sucked up the few dead ones
View attachment 177214

View attachment 177215

View attachment 177216

Just some shots of how they are developing

I'll get some from inside the parent tank soon. Total there are about 2 dozen left inside. They seem to be surviving just as well as those in the fry tank.


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## Guest

If you are having issues with hatching BB shrimp, you can always puchase it frozen







I hate the daily task of getting them to hatch so in my lazy way lol I feed them the Sera Micron and frozen bb shrimp







Just thaw a small amount in a cup of luke warm water, stir it up and voila! Bon appetite.


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## Domelotta

ksls said:


> If you are having issues with hatching BB shrimp, you can always puchase it frozen
> 
> 
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> 
> I hate the daily task of getting them to hatch so in my lazy way lol I feed them the Sera Micron and frozen bb shrimp
> 
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> Just thaw a small amount in a cup of luke warm water, stir it up and voila! Bon appetite.


Wow, they don't need to be live? They still eat them frozen? =D
If so, Sweeeet. I just didn't know if they would eat em cuz they don't seem to be eating the powder food im giving them right now, nor the crushed flake food. I will try the frozen brine then. Hopefully that works.


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## Guest

Just make sure its baby brine. And yes they will eat it


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## Domelotta

OK so to my satisfaction the last batch of bbs actually hatched. It must have been the temperature. It has been inside of a 10 gallon filled 1/3 full with a heater. There are hundreds upon hundreds of these suckers. How long are they good for?

Also there are lots of fish letting themselves be sucked onto the sponge from the filter. They swim away occassionally but some are slowly burrowing into the sponge. Is this ok? Can they still escape?


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## primetime3wise

i think w/ clean water, some salt, and refrigeration, like 2-3 days. i am not sure of the amounts though as I just hatched every day.

as far as some being sucked in. it looks like you are using a sponge over a hob filter? if so, you will lose some from the stronger suction than if you used a sponge filter w/ just an airstone providing the suction. either way, you will lose a few that way, but i think a little more with your setup.


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## Domelotta

primetime3wise said:


> i think w/ clean water, some salt, and refrigeration, like 2-3 days. i am not sure of the amounts though as I just hatched every day.
> 
> as far as some being sucked in. it looks like you are using a sponge over a hob filter? if so, you will lose some from the stronger suction than if you used a sponge filter w/ just an airstone providing the suction. either way, you will lose a few that way, but i think a little more with your setup.


Oh I see, well I guess survival of the fittest aye.

Here's some pics of the frantic swimmers getting their bbs snack. I will feed 3-5 times daily (small doses)
I'm guessing one squirt of the bbs should do per serving right?

View attachment 177332

View attachment 177333


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## primetime3wise

looking good. you will get a feel for how much to feed as you go.


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## Domelotta

Sad update, but less than 100 survived. I don't know where the corpses are. I'm guessing that they were sucked up through the filter which I ended up fixing as much as I could today. I guess since its my first time I didn't know better. The lady at the fish store said that the sponge should be fine though. So now I am still making efforts to hatch my own brine. I just put a jug inside the actual fry tank to just take the temperature from it. It is safe from falling in. The rates that I fish the dead ones out are about 5 a day. I figured with around 200-300 to begin with that was ok, but now I actually am able to count them. Last I checked, I tallied around 89. I think they decided to nest in the sponge and just eventually got sucked up. No other explanation. Good news is that the survivors are doing very well. I just need to make sure they are fed. This is much harder work than I thought. Hopefully I will have the liberty of having another go at it since I had no experience this time around.

I'll update pics and progress every so often for those interested.


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## Guest

I am sorry to hear that you lost so many







Next time I would use a Hydro Sponge filter and attach it to a bubbler, this way the fry will not get sucked up into the jetpump. I am not a fan of the sponge on the jetpumps for fry tanks, way to many casualties.

I prefer to keep a sponge in a cycled 20G tank so that I know it is ready when I need it. Then when you have fry, remove all jetpumps and other filteration systems and place the sponge in a bare bottom tank. Not only will it provide good biological and mechanical filtration, it will also give the fry a hiding place and trap small food particles for them to munch on.

I would still love to see updated pictures of your guys as they grow and just remember, we always learn from our mistakes. Good luck


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## Domelotta

ksls said:


> I am sorry to hear that you lost so many
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next time I would use a Hydro Sponge filter and attach it to a bubbler, this way the fry will not get sucked up into the jetpump. I am not a fan of the sponge on the jetpumps for fry tanks, way to many casualties.
> 
> I prefer to keep a sponge in a cycled 20G tank so that I know it is ready when I need it. Then when you have fry, remove all jetpumps and other filteration systems and place the sponge in a bare bottom tank. Not only will it provide good biological and mechanical filtration, it will also give the fry a hiding place and trap small food particles for them to munch on.
> 
> I would still love to see updated pictures of your guys as they grow and just remember, we always learn from our mistakes. Good luck


Thanks for the kind words and information. I guess I just wasn't lucky this time. Hopefully the parents get in the mood again. I mean I lost a lot, but there are still a decent amount of em. Based on a 50-60% survival rate of these I will come out with 40-50 I'm guessing. I'm in the process of convincing the mother to let me have another tank for these bad boys. That will take some convincing. For now though since there are significantly fewer I think the 10 gallon should work for most of em till about dime size, so I got about a month before that I think. I have finally been able to hatch some brine shrimp successfully and have a 3 container setup so food isn't an issue anymore.

I'll take pics in a day or two to show the new numbers and size changes. I like documenting this stuff, but it makes me sad to look at how my numbers diminished. It looks like a barren wasteland in there compared to before.







Oh well, like you said we learn from out mistakes. (don't trust LFS owners about spongefilters lol) I think I'll go ahead an get myself one of those things in case of another batch of these suckers, highly doubt it, but I'm still hoping.


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## Domelotta

So I have been ashamed to even think about putting pictures up. The number is less than 20 as of now. I know exactly what went wrong now. There is no way that I can keep fry with the hob and sponge over top. I put panty-hose over top until my actual sponge filter arrives, but for now my numbers are almost zero. The only good thing is that in the main tank one of the males (the other one) is building a nest. He is being very aggressive and the female looks overly bloated. Before the first batch this happened as well, but I was curious as to what they were doing and why she was so fat. Now I understand. Hopefully I get the second batch and can make sure its perfect this time. For now I'm putting all my efforts into making the rest of this first batch survive. I'll take pics in a few days when they're a little bit bigger. Already developed the little tiny fins so thats a good sign I guess. One is significantly bigger than the rest though. Thats the one I really want to survive.


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## Domelotta

So, for the update: I have been leaving my main tank alone for a while now and about a week ago I decided to check in on it. I have been keeping the lights off just in case they wanted to breed again since 3/4 of them are constantly purple (one of which has been purple nonstop). I was looking around and found 2 things that shocked me. 1. was a very decent sized fish about twice the size of my others in the fry tank and also an egg with a tail swimming around. At this point I had only 6 fry left and the numbers were steady for a few days. I decided if I didn't add these guys to the tank they'd probably get eaten or sucked up by the filter. Its been a while now since I added them and my number has been at a steady 7 total. The only reason that there is 7 instead of 8 is because the egg with the tail was eaten by the biggest one. He carried it around like a dog bone for a day or so. I'm thinking and hoping they all survive. It seems like I'm actually getting a hang of things now (sad it was so late). Here are some pics of the updates.








The big guy when I first added him







The bunch taking a brine shrimp snack


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## Guest

Cute little guys. Hopefully you will have better luck next time around








What are you planning to do with this group? Thanks for the picture updates.


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## Domelotta

ksls said:


> Cute little guys. Hopefully you will have better luck next time around
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> What are you planning to do with this group? Thanks for the picture updates.


Well I was gonna sell most of them to a LFS once they were a dime size, but since obviously since I cut myself short I'll just keep these since they make me feel at least a bit accomplished. I'll probably sell them down the road, but for now they seem to fit right in and I mean they gotta be strong to survive what I've put them through.


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## Malawi-

Thats a small mother, how big is she


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## Piranha Madness

Domelotta said:


> Cute little guys. Hopefully you will have better luck next time around
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you planning to do with this group? Thanks for the picture updates.


Well I was gonna sell most of them to a LFS once they were a dime size, but since obviously since I cut myself short I'll just keep these since they make me feel at least a bit accomplished. I'll probably sell them down the road, but for now they seem to fit right in and I mean they gotta be strong to survive what I've put them through.
[/quote]

I can't wait for my shot at breeding them.....!!!!!!!!!


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## Domelotta

Malawi- said:


> Thats a small mother, how big is she


Really? well I don't know if you can tell from the pic, but she's a good 8". The father of this batch was the runt of the tank coming in at 6". The other two are 7".

As far as an update: the little fish are doing fine. Getting bigger and looking really healthy. The main tank is very busy with the two males making their nests. Actually its funny, one side of the tank has a bunch of gravel and the other has a tiny bit. Since there is one pot in the tank, the little one claimed that, since he's always been in there and the first batch was found there. The more aggressive larger male claime the entire right side of the tank. Chases anyone but the female away. I have no idea about the other 7"er. Something makes me think he just likes to watch


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## killycat

Has the female already laid another batch of eggs?


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## Domelotta

killycat said:


> Has the female already laid another batch of eggs?


Not yet. For the last week its been non-stop mating dances. No successful layings though. The closest was when a dozen white eggs came out and floated around for a bit before getting sucked into the filter. I doubt they were fertilized. The male is kind of a scared when its comes to the female. They tilt vertically and rub sides and a few eggs drop out but then he scurries away. lol I think it will happen soon though. The little guys are doing good still, these guys look promising.


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## Domelotta

Quick update guys. In the main tank I guess there has been a little breeding. Not sure how much, since I can't find eggs anywhere, but there are about 2 dozen free swimmers just chilling. They've all been very territorial lately and such, one in particular building a nest non-stop for 2 weeks. They seem to breed for no more than 2 mins at a time and the female is still bulging with eggs. Hopefully they can just get one massive breeding at once so I can transfer the fry. As for these, I'll keep them in the main tank until they are large enough to not be eaten by the other fry from the first breeding which are about 1/2 -3/4 of a dime size, so not huge yet.


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## Domelotta

So I was blessed with a second chance at this. I knew it would happen. Last night the male and female were non-stop in and out of the pot in my tank (where they bred the first time) and now there is a massive batch of eggs. I won't mess up this time. I can't. I worked everything out so its perfect in the fry tank. Finally I will be able to raise them successfully. Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice on raising them. I'll post pics soon and I'm going to use your guidlines like a bible. Super excited.


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## Domelotta

Wow ok today they did it again. The eggs from the previous hatching are all free swimming now. Altogether theres about 120+ I'm guessing. 3/4 in the fry tank. The rest in the main tank. Its kinda hard to get em all. Theres about 200+ eggs just laid and I'm gonna set up another tank for these before the parents eat these. I can tell when they've been feasting on em cuz theres gravel spit all over the pot in my tank.


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## Guest

Congrats!! I am sure things will work out better this time now that you are more prepared. Keep us updated and post some pics of the first and newest batch


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## blbig50

Awesome, you can only get better with experience :nod:


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## Domelotta

So theres 3 of the remaining first batch still alive. There were 6 and I truly overfed them, but still somehow the biggest one decided to have the others for lunch. Here are pictures of everything up to date.








The male piranha in the mood







The eggs freshly layed














The two biggest with the few dozen from a partial breeding before I added the eggs and transferred the big ones out to their own tank




























The freshly hatched eggs from today. They are all free swimming now. I underestimated their numbers. I started em on baby brine this morning and so far I'm feeling good about everything so lets hope it keeps going well.














These are 2 of 3 of the first batch in their own tank. They eat live adult brine 2 times a day.
They are smaller than they should be I know, but I still feel proud to at least have these guys survive.

Share some thoughts
Thanks


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## Murphy18

Looking very good, well done. Keep more updates coming.

Hope it all works out for you, watcha gonna do with em?


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## Domelotta

I'm just gonna keep the biggest and sell the rest to some friends and the lfs. Surprisingly since fish tanks are the only thing allowed in the dorms at college lots of people want 1, so we'll see how many I can successfully keep alive.


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## Murphy18

Dont sell them to a bunch of kids who havent got a clue







Thats a big negative, you only want them to go to a decent owner who is willing to take the proper care for them.

I would just keep what you want, sell the rest as a whole to a lfs or someone willing to take them from you. And if you want to sell some individually i would only sell them to people YOU KNOW who have the correct knowledge on how to care for them, otherwise what a waste of your time you have spent raising them.


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## Domelotta

Murphy18 said:


> Dont sell them to a bunch of kids who havent got a clue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a big negative, you only want them to go to a decent owner who is willing to take the proper care for them.
> 
> I would just keep what you want, sell the rest as a whole to a lfs or someone willing to take them from you. And if you want to sell some individually i would only sell them to people YOU KNOW who have the correct knowledge on how to care for them, otherwise what a waste of your time you have spent raising them.


True True, now that I think about it, only about 3 of em actually properly know how to take care of em since they are my friends. They know how much time and effort I put towards my fish. I guess a LFS will have to do. Thanks for the advice.

As far as an update, the fry are doing good. There are so many of them I used up almost all the brine shrimp I hatched this morning. Wow these suckers sure eat like an army of hungry soldiers. As for the big ones they are really fat today since I fed them bloodworms and they decided to eat every last piece, so I'll feed them a little less tomorrow.


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## cusccrstud21

congrats bro! that sounds like its a lot of work but I bet its rewarding watching them grow and get bigger all the time! How big is the tank your adults are in?


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## Domelotta

cusccrstud21 said:


> congrats bro! that sounds like its a lot of work but I bet its rewarding watching them grow and get bigger all the time! How big is the tank your adults are in?


Actually the adults are in a 50 gallon acrylic. I know its small, but honestly they seem to do just fine in it. There is obvious territorial issues, but since theres two functional mating pairs in there I mean, can't be too bad. I take extra care anyways.


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## Domelotta

So I'm wondering what to do now. They just layed another big batch and I seriously have no room anywhere for em. I think I'll just leave em in the tank for now, but I know in a few days they'll eat em. So anyone have suggestions? I also got a video of em doing it







They're such horn dogs. Its like watching a soap opera lol.


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## cusccrstud21

Domelotta said:


> So I'm wondering what to do now. They just layed another big batch and I seriously have no room anywhere for em. I think I'll just leave em in the tank for now, but I know in a few days they'll eat em. So anyone have suggestions? I also got a video of em doing it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're such horn dogs. Its like watching a soap opera lol.


Wow, that's insane! Good luck with these, lol. How's the last batch of them doing?


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## Domelotta

cusccrstud21 said:


> So I'm wondering what to do now. They just layed another big batch and I seriously have no room anywhere for em. I think I'll just leave em in the tank for now, but I know in a few days they'll eat em. So anyone have suggestions? I also got a video of em doing it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're such horn dogs. Its like watching a soap opera lol.


Wow, that's insane! Good luck with these, lol. How's the last batch of them doing?
[/quote]

Last batch has been doing great actually. I mean yea there are a couple that I fish out everyday because they have passed, but overall the batch looks very strong. Very active and hungry. They can constantly eat. From the first batch however there now remains a pathetic two. I really don't know why but the biggest one is just so aggressive when it comes to feeding. If one gets in his way he just strikes. (explains why he's the biggest). But since these last two are so close in size I think they'll make it into adulthood.

No real worries about them anymore. I'm probably going to give them to my girlfriend. She has been in admiration of my piranhas for quite some time, but she wanted to raise em from babies and she's about to buy a 40g long so that should work out for the two of em until she adds more to the shoal.

The Lfs owner I talked to says that it may sound wrong but since they are breeding so aggressively, I should just feed the new batches as live food to the others so they get all the yolk sacks nutrition. I thought it was bizarre personally. I know there is someone who would want their own batch. Sooooooo If anyone reading this would like to take these eggs off my hands and don't mind the drive, I mean feel free to let me know. Otherwise I'll figure something out, but I'm not using piranha babies and food for other piranha babies.


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## Murphy18

How many tanks do you have available?

If im not mistaken you might be able to put the larger fry in the adult tank, but make sure there is plenty of hiding places for them and plants. How often are you feeding the babies?


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## Domelotta

Well the adult tank is already overstocked and not many hiding spots since they ripped up all the plants in the breeding process. The babies get fed about 3 times a day. The 2 Juvies get fed about 1-2 times. Pretty much until they are fat.


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## CostaKapo

This was one of the most interesting topics to follow. Please keep updating!!


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## Domelotta

Ok for the update, I don't know why (faulty genes, or whatever), most of the fry from the newest batch died. I fed them two times a day, cleaned the water out, sucked up the dead ones, but they still only had the strongest survive. I think it might have been an issue with the ones getting the most fodo growing much quicker and eating the smaller ones. Also they seemed to not die at all once I stopped cleaning the algae off the tank. I just left it like that and for the last month none have died.

Luckily 3 times more survived than the first batch (which isn't saying much). haha 9 little ones about an 3/4 inch long are alive in a fry tank, and the first 3 piranhas are 1 1/2 - 2 inches. They got a lot bigger since last time. They are developing the orange under their mouths so everything seems to be working out. About two weeks ago however, the smallest of them was attacked viscously and lost half of his tail, so I put in the divider until he was better. Now they are all fine, but the bottom of his tail isn't really growing back all the way. I guess I could give it time. It wasn't just the fin bitten off, it was actual flesh.

Can't really get pictures of the tiny ones, because there really is a lot of algae (which seems to help)
But here are the first three that I started with and their parents.


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## Murphy18

No, the actual tail wont grow back, if its flesh. Good job on raising them, they are looking excellent.

Good luck rasing the other fry







And keep the updates flyin in.


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## Domelotta

Murphy18 said:


> No, the actual tail wont grow back, if its flesh. Good job on raising them, they are looking excellent.
> 
> Good luck rasing the other fry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And keep the updates flyin in.


Thanks, well lol I guess he's gonna be messed up for life. It's fine, I mean the father of all of these had his entire anal fin and reproductive system bitten off. I was sure he wasn't going to make it, but he even managed to breed. Something tells me that there is a connection to the father's misfortune and the frys deaths. well that or I just can't breed worth crap. Either way the experience is priceless.

I was going to sell the biggest ones, but I honestly just love watching them grow. I might just have to set up a nice big tank for everyone with three dividers when I get the money. I figure when they are all around similar sizes they could cohab, I'm guessing. I think 180 gallons would do right? Well this is all just thinking. For now I'll just keep em alive and well.


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## His Majesty

ohh feel sorry for the guy with half his tail missing.
great job so far on raising them. must be cool seeing them grow up. and good luck with the other fry
keep us posted


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## Death in #'s

wow this has been a awesome read keep up the good work and updates


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## blbig50

They look great man you're doing a good job. Keep the updates goin, and good luck with the fry.


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA

Good read man congrats on a good pair if you were in Mi I would donate you a tank to help out but good luck and keep us posted..


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## Piranhoia

This post has been a godsend to me! I literally had never visited the breeding forum until one day to my surprise I had little swimmers around. Seeing a post titled "OMG Help MY P's just had babies" summed up my feelings exactly! and reading through this the same thing has been happening with my pair. The first batch of fry slowly dwindled down to about 10 (no bodies which is about the only difference here) and just yesterday I saw these guys back over by their nest doing some more digging and the mating dance. Now today, MORE EGGS! My feelings mirror yours throughout this exactly (excitement, worry, confusion about what to do next, dissapointment, a hope to get another shot, and now a drive to do better this time)

I don't know if "thank you" is in order but definitely some acknowledgement is deserved! Nice post and excellent job raising these guys







(I know firsthand now how tough it is).

Chad


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## primetime3wise

nice. don't worry, if you are up to raising the fry you are going to have plenty of chances, now and in the future.


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## Piranhoia

So it took over a month, but they've done it again! A fresh new batch of eggs have been thrown down (third batch now since early July). I'm more prepared this time, which is awesome... but another week woulda been WAY nice (new tank isn't quite cycled yet) but hey I'll take 'em.

Weird thing going on now though, at first I thought both parents were gaurding the nest, but it seems that they're still mating... Still dark colored and still doin the "nose down wiggle dance". Is it possible that they're gonna spit out some more eggs?









Chad


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## blbig50

Congrats again! Good luck with this batch. Post some more pics too!


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## Domelotta

Well I've been off P-Fury for a while and decided I'd give an update. I sold all but two of my babies, well technically they're juvies now. I'd say about 3.5ish inches. Each with their own 10g tank. I'll upgrade soon or sell them I'm not sure yet. But here's a couple of videos I caught during the process. Thought I'd share. Think I have enough evidence to get that breeder award? I've always been envious of people when I saw it in their Sig.


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## Demon Darko

Good work man. Very well done.


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## ismheg

i recommend you get an undergravel filter and a 15-25 gallon tank, transfer them with the water from their parents tank. i think blood worms would be the best food for them. (get the bloodworms for bettas since they are small enough). also add LOTS of plants in the tank and many many hiding spots so they dont eat each others eyes out or gang up on each other. they should grow fairly fast, so you might want to start cycling a bigger tank in a week or 2


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