# Coolest thing ever in my tank



## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

Alright, well I think this is incredibly cool, but this is the first time I've seen in. With my new tank I decided to use live sand rather than gravel as a change since I'd never done it before. Every so often I saw a black spot on the side of the tank and never really thought much of it. Finally, the other day I saw it and got close to look and it was a little snail. He was maybe a centimeter long. I looked around some more and found a bunch of tiny little snails all over the tank. Most are about the size of a grain of sand. I looked a second ago and counted at least 7 or 8 of them, and who knows how many I couldn't see. I think they are the coolest thing ever. I guess they just grew out of the live sand.

I managed to get a pic of one, and let me emphasize, this picture was taken with the camera in macro mode, manual focus to get as close as I could, and the lens literally touching the side of the tank. The original picture was 8 megapixel and this was just cut out of the middle, full size.










This guy is so small that you can't see any detail at all with the naked eye. This picture was the first look at him that I got. I think it's incredibly cool to have a whole habitat growing now.


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## viralmouser (Apr 28, 2007)

you had better take care of them, they can infest your tank fast.


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## Chapz (Jul 9, 2007)

If they get out of control, get some emerald crabs. They'll stop the colony quick.

Nice find though.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

Good point, I hadn't thought about them getting out of control. For now they are all about the size of a grain of sand, so it's not a problem yet. I wouldn't be surprised if my RBP starts picking them off the sides as they get a little bigger, so maybe that will help.

Actually, I think I posted this in the wrong section (I think I posted in Piranha pictures). It was moved to salt water, but it's actually a fresh water tank, so the emeralds wouldn't work, but I'm sure I can find something similar for fresh water.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

what kind of live sand did you use? where did you get it from?>


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## ...Jay... (Nov 2, 2006)

AJerman said:


> Good point, I hadn't thought about them getting out of control. For now they are all about the size of a grain of sand, so it's not a problem yet. I wouldn't be surprised if my RBP starts picking them off the sides as they get a little bigger, so maybe that will help.
> 
> Actually, I think I posted this in the wrong section (I think I posted in Piranha pictures). It was moved to salt water, but it's actually a fresh water tank, so the emeralds wouldn't work, but I'm sure I can find something similar for fresh water.


the use of the words "live sand" refers to salt water. If you bought live sand for your freshwater tank and got snails I dont know what to tell you.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

I don't recall the brand, I'd have to go get the bag out to check. It's just what they had at Petsmart though.



Jayson745 said:


> Good point, I hadn't thought about them getting out of control. For now they are all about the size of a grain of sand, so it's not a problem yet. I wouldn't be surprised if my RBP starts picking them off the sides as they get a little bigger, so maybe that will help.
> 
> Actually, I think I posted this in the wrong section (I think I posted in Piranha pictures). It was moved to salt water, but it's actually a fresh water tank, so the emeralds wouldn't work, but I'm sure I can find something similar for fresh water.


the use of the words "live sand" refers to salt water. If you bought live sand for your freshwater tank and got snails I dont know what to tell you.
[/quote]
Really? See, I looked into a lot of this and didn't seem to find anything saying that it would only work with salt or fresh water. I wouldn't think that the sand would too negatively affect the tank even if it was originally salt and now used for fresh, but I certainly don't know much about the sand, it was just something I wanted to try this time since I've always had gravel. I can see what you're saying about most living things not lasting in it if it were used with fresh water but I definitely have snails and I can't think of anywhere else they would have come from other than the sand. The fish certainly don't seem to care.


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## ...Jay... (Nov 2, 2006)

the snails came from somethign else. Mabey a plant? Your live sand is dead now, and i doubt there are to many snails that can live in salt and fresh water. Those little bastards can hitch hike on almost anything you put in there. Good news is they keep your glass clean. Bad knews is they plug your filters if they get really bad.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

I got my plants from Petsmart, I don't know if they treat the plants at all to kill anything like that, but they probably can't or else they'd be dangerous when you add them to an aquarium with fish. I guess they could have come from there but I figured the sand was the most likely cause since it is "live". What you're saying about it being dead now makes sense though. I really don't care if it's live or dead, I just wanted a sand bed for this tank. I like it but it's a pain in the ass to clean because it kicks up too much.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

i belive the live sand intended for salt tanks might result in elevated ph in a fresh water tank.. ultimately the critters and bacteria that was live in the salt water wil not be alive for long in the fresh water


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

nismo driver said:


> i belive the live sand intended for salt tanks might result in elevated ph in a fresh water tank.. ultimately the critters and bacteria that was live in the salt water wil not be alive for long in the fresh water


That's nothing that a proper cycle wouldn't take care of though correct? Like I said, I call it live sand only because that's what it says on the package. I would assume that the live bacteria would almost make the tank self cycling as the sand should be enough to kick off the cycle, and later I could see the bacteria and organisms dying causing some spikes in the waters numbers. Seems like a standard cycle time should take care of most of that though don't you think?

Trust me, I've learned a LOT even in just the last couple of months that I've had this setup. When I first set it up I didn't have time to do a whole lot of research and didn't even give the tank long enough to do a full cycle. In the end all the fish ended up fine and my RBP seems perfectly happy now. I can't wait until I set up my big tank in a month or so and can do it all again the right way with what I've learned.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

AJerman said:


> i belive the live sand intended for salt tanks might result in elevated ph in a fresh water tank.. ultimately the critters and bacteria that was live in the salt water wil not be alive for long in the fresh water


That's nothing that a proper cycle wouldn't take care of though correct? Like I said, I call it live sand only because that's what it says on the package. I would assume that the live bacteria would almost make the tank self cycling as the sand should be enough to kick off the cycle, and later I could see the bacteria and organisms dying causing some spikes in the waters numbers. Seems like a standard cycle time should take care of most of that though don't you think?

Trust me, *I've learned a LOT even in just the last couple of months that I've had this setup.* When I first set it up I didn't have time to do a whole lot of research and didn't even give the tank long enough to do a full cycle. In the end all the fish ended up fine and my RBP seems perfectly happy now. I can't wait until I set up my big tank in a month or so and can do it all again the right way with what I've learned.
[/quote]

the point is that it would be a major waste of money to buy marine live sand for a freshwater tank when you could get play sand from home depot for half the cost for double the weight..

the irony of you defending the use of marine live sand in a freshwater tank and claiming to have learned alot and associating the snails in the tank with the sand when your buying plants from petsmart and wondering where the snails ahve come from.. ugh you have alot more to learn..


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

nismo driver said:


> i belive the live sand intended for salt tanks might result in elevated ph in a fresh water tank.. ultimately the critters and bacteria that was live in the salt water wil not be alive for long in the fresh water


That's nothing that a proper cycle wouldn't take care of though correct? Like I said, I call it live sand only because that's what it says on the package. I would assume that the live bacteria would almost make the tank self cycling as the sand should be enough to kick off the cycle, and later I could see the bacteria and organisms dying causing some spikes in the waters numbers. Seems like a standard cycle time should take care of most of that though don't you think?

Trust me, *I've learned a LOT even in just the last couple of months that I've had this setup.* When I first set it up I didn't have time to do a whole lot of research and didn't even give the tank long enough to do a full cycle. In the end all the fish ended up fine and my RBP seems perfectly happy now. I can't wait until I set up my big tank in a month or so and can do it all again the right way with what I've learned.
[/quote]

the point is that it would be a major waste of money to buy marine live sand for a freshwater tank when you could get play sand from home depot for half the cost for double the weight..

the irony of you defending the use of marine live sand in a freshwater tank and claiming to have learned alot and associating the snails in the tank with the sand when your buying plants from petsmart and wondering where the snails ahve come from.. ugh you have alot more to learn..
[/quote]
I'm not defending anything, I'm just verifying that it would be ok if it were used in a situation such as my use. Like I said, I didn't know anything about sand, so I got it from the pet store and that's what they had. I wouldn't have thought that play sand was something suitable to put in an aquarium where every little thing can throw off your water's "vital levels". Obviously I know better now and won't do the same in the future. I'm simply examining what effect it has now that it's already been done.

I've also never used live plants in a tank either, so that's another new factor to me. I don't think it's too far a stretch for someone who doesn't know to think that the snails would have come from what was labeled "LIVE" sand. The whole point of this tank set up was to experiment with some new things. Obviously I've learned a lot about sand and planted tanks. We all have to start somewhere, don't we? I don't even begin to claim to know close to everything there is to know about an aquarium, in fact, quite the opposite, I encourage people to treat me like I'm dumb for now so I will continue to learn.

Another thing about the snails is that the aquarium has been set up for around 2 months now I'd say. It seemed odd to me to only just now be seeing the snails from either the sand or the plants. I personally don't mind them and think they are pretty cool little guys, especially with how small they are. I'm not too worried unless they do end up getting out of control, but for now I don't even see more than 10 of them. This tank will be completely redone in about a month when I move my RBP to it's new permanent and bigger tank. That's why I'm sort of going through a trial run with this stuff now so when I set up my real tank I can do everything right.

So thank you for correcting me on this subject. To be constructive, do you have a suggestion of somewhere else I should get plants that won't have extra little surprises in them? I would fully assume that Petsmart would not be the best place to get plants, just like they aren't the best place to get fish, and the people who work there know nothing more than the fact that the fish are fish.

*Edit:* _I found some links in the stickies of the planted tank section with places to buy plants online. I'll take a look at some of those for my new tank. They'll have a better selection that way anyway and will probably treat them better (The kid at Petsmart ripped several of the leaves on one of my plants trying to close up the bag)_


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

AJerman said:


> I got my plants from Petsmart, I don't know if they treat the plants at all to kill anything like that, but they probably can't or else they'd be dangerous when you add them to an aquarium with fish. I guess they could have come from there but I figured the sand was the most likely cause since it is "live". What you're saying about it being dead now makes sense though. I really don't care if it's live or dead, I just wanted a sand bed for this tank. I like it but it's a pain in the ass to clean because it kicks up too much.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! I got some plants from petsmart and my tank was so infested with snails that the only thing that worked was to remove everything, clean everything and set it back up. I should make a thread warning others. The snails are evil from petsmart.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

Haha, well I'm gonna keep watching them in amazement for now because I think it's really cool how small they are. This tank is already going to get a complete dumping in about a month when my other tank is built, so I don't think I need to really worry about them too much. I'll know what to avoid in the future though.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

dont over feed, that will help.


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## ...Jay... (Nov 2, 2006)

I think you would be better off with regular sand from a hardware store. I'm guessing that nismo was worried about your levels for something I've also heard. Shells mess with your levels. Live sand has lots of little broken shells in it, and your water will need alot more attention with that kind of sand messing things up for you. Its not something that will go away with a good cycle either, it'll keep messing things up.

I've read a way to clean plants a long time ago, but cant find it now. I think it was a deluted bleach dip. I dont remember ratios, or soaking time, so I'm not much help there. I think it was 1 part bleach to 10 parts water for 5 minutes or so, but cant be sure. So if you try it, do it with one cheap plant and see if it kills the plant or not.

Snails breed very rapidly, and you'll have a bunch of them in no time, then more than you want before you know it. I purposely add them to my tanks, because I dont mind having to clean out filters once in a while. Some people hate them though, and some species will eat your plants.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah, this is an old topic and I feel pretty stupid about it now, haha. I was trying sand and plants both for the first time, so it's understandable where I got the idea from that it came from the sand, plus, this was before I had read much about play sand. Also, I thought it was pretty cool that I got the tiny little snails, but I can see how that they are obnoxious. I've been scooping them up and tossing them down the drain each time I clean the tank, luckily I don't have a whole lot of them. I agree that I don't mind having a few as long as I can keep them in control.


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## ...Jay... (Nov 2, 2006)

yea I had nothing better to do than dig up month old threads. hehehe

Serously though, i think the shells are the biggest reason not to use the sand. Are you still using it? Did you notice any problems?

Some snails can reproduce without a partner, so even if theres one, it can make more. I wouldn't worry about it though, like I said, I add them to my tanks on purpose. It just depends on if you want to clean you filters once in a while, and if you mind little black dots on the glass instead of algea. I prefer the black dots(little snails), because I think their kinda cool.

I started a snail/guppy tank for my son.

I've put big snails with Ps before though, and in a couple weeks they all had big holes where the piranha tried to eat them.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

Jayson745 said:


> yea I had nothing better to do than dig up month old threads. hehehe
> 
> Serously though, i think the shells are the biggest reason not to use the sand. Are you still using it? Did you notice any problems?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've still got it in that tank. The water seems pretty stable. My new tank is using the 3M Colorquartz sand though, so we'll see how they compare. I've been fairly pleased with the sand, but it has given me a little trouble cleaning sometimes. Still getting used to just vacuuming the surface of sand rather than digging around in gravel.

And yeah, I'd rather have little snails too than algae, but either way, I thought it was really cool when I had no idea it was coming, then saw a tiny little spec, smaller than a grain of sand, and took an extreme close up pic with my camera and was able to tell it was an incredibly small little snail. It's like having a whole community in the tank.


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## ...Jay... (Nov 2, 2006)

if you ever do saltwater, those guys get the best hitchhikers. You'll buy a piece of live rock, and little starfish will come out, along with other little critters. I read a thread on a different site where a guy bought a huge piece of live rock, and the day after putting it in his tank a little freakin octopus came out of it! He posted tons of pictures, and it was sweet. Problem is they only live a couple years, and tend to destroy your landscaping just out of boredom, or mabey they're looking for food under the rocks. Anyway.

I did sand once and it was a disaster. There was never enough poop on the surface to bother trying to siphon, then a month later there was a black line under the sand about a half inch under the surface. My tank basically cycled for no apparent reason, and my fish were in bad shape. So I had to empty it and take all the sand out.

I love the way tanks look with sand, but that experience has me afraid to try again.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Jayson745 said:


> if you ever do saltwater, those guys get the best hitchhikers. You'll buy a piece of live rock, and little starfish will come out, along with other little critters. I read a thread on a different site where a guy bought a huge piece of live rock, and the day after putting it in his tank a little freakin octopus came out of it! He posted tons of pictures, and it was sweet. Problem is they only live a couple years, and tend to destroy your landscaping just out of boredom, or mabey they're looking for food under the rocks. Anyway.
> 
> I did sand once and it was a disaster. There was never enough poop on the surface to bother trying to siphon, then a month later there was a black line under the sand about a half inch under the surface. My tank basically cycled for no apparent reason, and my fish were in bad shape. So I had to empty it and take all the sand out.
> 
> I love the way tanks look with sand, but that experience has me afraid to try again.


the black line was most likely anerobic bacteria, this is great for breaking down nitrates BUT it can nuke a tank if it starts to release gasses

running a deep sand bed requires a careful balance, and almost always encounters this problem after as little as2 years but can work for as long as 10 years. there needs to be various critterst o move around the surface of the sand to prevent these pockets from building up and creating excesive releases.


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## AJerman (Nov 7, 2007)

nismo driver said:


> if you ever do saltwater, those guys get the best hitchhikers. You'll buy a piece of live rock, and little starfish will come out, along with other little critters. I read a thread on a different site where a guy bought a huge piece of live rock, and the day after putting it in his tank a little freakin octopus came out of it! He posted tons of pictures, and it was sweet. Problem is they only live a couple years, and tend to destroy your landscaping just out of boredom, or mabey they're looking for food under the rocks. Anyway.
> 
> I did sand once and it was a disaster. There was never enough poop on the surface to bother trying to siphon, then a month later there was a black line under the sand about a half inch under the surface. My tank basically cycled for no apparent reason, and my fish were in bad shape. So I had to empty it and take all the sand out.
> 
> I love the way tanks look with sand, but that experience has me afraid to try again.


the black line was most likely anerobic bacteria, this is great for breaking down nitrates BUT it can nuke a tank if it starts to release gasses

running a deep sand bed requires a careful balance, and almost always encounters this problem after as little as2 years but can work for as long as 10 years. there needs to be various critterst o move around the surface of the sand to prevent these pockets from building up and creating excesive releases.
[/quote]

Yeah, if you take a look at my new thread in the Tank and Equipment section, I did a little review on 3M's Colorquartz sand. It comes in two grades, S and T grade, S being more fine than T. I went with the T because I thought it would have less issue with compaction and growing bacteria like this. Sand may be easier to clean on a day to day basis than gravel, but it's not without it's own little quirks to remember to take care of it.


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