# Tank Cloudy?



## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

I have a 100gallons tank with 12 3-4" caribas. I feed the fishes trout, three times a day. I started cycling the tank with bio spira about 4 days ago. I have an Fx5 and an Emperor 400 filtering the tank. 
What gives? Fish oil or cycling or just need of a water change?


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

Three 60% water changes and you'll reduce the opacity to just over 6% of what it is now. Maybe after day 6 or 7 when your filter media has been fully colonized.


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

if you just started cycling the tank 4 days ago that would be why your tank is cloudy what are you parameters and what type of trout?


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

because you most likely did not properly cycle your tank.....cloudy water is the sign of a bacterial bloom, meaning you have ammonia in the water, and what little benifical bacterias you do have cannot keep up with the waste your fish are giving off....causing cloudy water. Fish keeping is not something you want to rush. Patients is the key. You have a ton of great questions, and seem like you want to know these fish inside and out, but you are not taking the time to do things properly.

-Ryan


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

I don't know if they still sell them but the White Shark filter pads remove debris down to the micron level. Massive water changes on a big tank like yours isn't the environmentally responsible thing to do especially if you're in SoCal.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

shanker said:


> I don't know if they still sell them but the White Shark filter pads remove debris down to the micron level. Massive water changes on a big tank like yours isn't the environmentally responsible thing to do especially if you're in SoCal.


i have fine particle removal pads in my fx5.


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## mum74985 (Apr 29, 2007)

12 Caribe are just to much for your 100gallon. The more piranha you got to more waste will produce in your tank. Piranha are very messy eater, you will need to do tons of water, have tons of filteration.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

API kits are the best....don't use strip tests, they are sh*t.

And if you have never tested the water....how the hell do you know if your tank was cycled, or if your ammonia isn't sky high and burning the hell out of your fish, or if the nitrites aren't high enough to cause death, knowing the tank isn't cycled, I know there are nitrites because it's still trying to cycle. And your nitrates could be high enough to cause nitrate poisoning. This is what I am talking about when I say don't get in a hurry. You could have or still could kill all those beautiful fish you just purchased.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

~IronMonkey~ said:


> API kits are the best....don't use strip tests, they are sh*t.
> 
> And if you have never tested the water....how the hell do you know if your tank was cycled, or if your ammonia isn't sky high and burning the hell out of your fish, or if the nitrites aren't high enough to cause death, knowing the tank isn't cycled, I know there are nitrites because it's still trying to cycle. And your nitrates could be high enough to cause nitrate poisoning. This is what I am talking about when I say don't get in a hurry. You could have or still could kill all those beautiful fish you just purchased.


I just sent my friend to get an API test kit. thanks for the advice. Yes, you are right. I made some mistakes in rushing things.


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## mum74985 (Apr 29, 2007)

IMO you should start out with 4-5 caribe. You start out to many caribe and here is my opinion.

1) You start out 12 P's that give them less room to swim.
2) It will make them grow slower (not enough room)
3) Caribe are know the most territories piranha, you will lose some. 
4) it would be better to start out with 4-5 cairbe not 12 caribe.

This is just what i would do..but good luck anyways.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

~IronMonkey~ said:


> IMO you should start out with 4-5 caribe. You start out to many caribe and here is my opinion.
> 
> 1) You start out 12 P's that give them less room to swim.
> 2) It will make them grow slower (not enough room)
> ...


Well, i have 12 now. so i will do my best with what i have. as i said, when they reach six inches i will put them in a larger tank.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

*the results are alarming:*

parameters:
ph: 7.2
nitrite: 1.5
nitrate: 13
amonia: 0.4

im going to cut back on feeding. i'll feed them oncea day till the chem is corrected.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

if you are feeding more than once a day...thats too much to begin with.....you should feed once every 3 days in the situation that you are in right now. Everyday ONCE a day is fine once the tank is cycled.

Nitrate kits will read in PPM.....so I have no idea how you got a reading of 1.5.....it would be either 5, 10 , 15 20...etc

plus if your nitrites go over 2 ppm....your fish would be dead. so again....don't know how you are getting a reading of 13 ppm....maybe you have nitrate-nitrite backwards????IDK

Ammonia will be 0 all the time once youe tank is cycled.....but .4 isn't bad for now. Any higher....you will need to do water change immidiately.

Check into buying some Bio-Spira soon as you can....makes things alot easier

and in my experiance.....that many cariba in a 100 is too many......you should sell them now if you plan to thin the shoal....atleast 4 of them in your situation....start with 8....keep 5 in long run. If you don't sell a few....you will most likely lose a few, and would be like flushing your money. Do as you please, but this is my suggestion, and it's a strong suggestion.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Leasure1 said:


> if you are feeding more than once a day...thats too much to begin with.....you should feed once every 3 days in the situation that you are in right now.
> 
> Nitrate kits will read in PPM.....so I have no idea how you got a reading of 1.5.....it would be either 5, 10 , 15 20...etc
> 
> ...


i did bio spira!
yeah, nitrate is 12.5 because it is between the two levels.
nitrite: 1.5 (between two levels)

so are these readings very bad?

I'm going to eventually have four caribas per 100 gallons tank. I will split them up as soon as possible. I am already purchasing equipment for the next tank. I just bought my second fx5. 
I will go with wet/dry sumps when I have a better space for creating a lab. what do you think?


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

Well you are getting a nitrite spike...which means your tank is close to being cycled. When both nitrite and ammonia drops to 0ppm....tank is fully cycled. The bio-spira probibly saved your fish....although nitrite readings that high could still kill your fish. Borderline catastrophy.

Nitrates levels are excellant.....0 is best......20-40ppm is okay, but time for water change


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Leasure1 said:


> Well you are getting a nitrite spike...which means your tank is close to being cycled. When both nitrite and ammonia drops to 0ppm....tank is fully cycled. The bio-spira probibly saved your fish....although nitrite readings that high could still kill your fish. Borderline catastrophy.
> 
> Nitrates levels are excellant.....0 is best......20-40ppm is okay, but time for water change


the fishes are very active. they play in the blower and race back and forth. happy lil demons.


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

very lucky guy.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)




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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

also you need to immediately add some salt to help counteract the high nitrite levels/nitrite poisoning. Also, I have never used it this way but Prime (a water dechlorinator) claims that when used in concentrations of 5 times above the normal amount it will detoxify nitrite in an emergency.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

nick007x said:


> also you need to immediately add some salt to help counteract the high nitrite levels/nitrite poisoning. Also, I have never used it this way but Prime (a water dechlorinator) claims that when used in concentrations of 5 times above the normal amount it will detoxify nitrite in an emergency.


will any sort of salt do? How much per gallon? I have 100 gallons.


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## SAFETYpin (Feb 1, 2004)

Table salt is fine, I believe one Tbs will treat up to 300 gallons for brown blood (Nitrite posining)

Salt - Frequently asked questions

Author: DonH

My views toward salt are very simple... Don't use it unless you need to. When you do need it, use it in the right amounts. And finally, don't believe that salt is a miracle cure for everything. It does have it's limitations and it's up to you to monitor the progress of your sick fish and decide if more potent meds are needed to help your fish recover.

These are the reasons why I like salt:

It does not hurt your filter (will not kill your nitrifiers) 
Carbon does not take it out of the system 
If you have a UV system... you don't have to turn it off. 
It's VERY cheap... doesn't cost a fortune to treat a 100+ tank 
Will not push very sick fishes "over the edge" like many meds 
Can be used on most fish species that are sensitive to meds 
Is not carcinogenic like a lot of meds out there. 
Has a relatively wide margin for error in dosage 
Found almost anywhere 
Versatile... can be used as a long term bath (2 weeks) or a short term dip

What salt will do?

Relieve nitrite poisoning (Brown Blood disease) by displacing nitrite ions away from gills membrane. 
Eradicates a large number of external parasites including ich, chilodonella, costia, trichodina, oodinium (velvet). 
Combats bacterial, fungal infections and ammonia burn. 
Kill all salt sensitive plants in your tank. 
Recharge ion exchange resins (ammo-chips, water softener "pillows") 
Can be used to disinfect a used, empty tank by apply it as a "paste". 
Ease osmoregulatory stress... but only happens when fish are dumped from water of one osmotic pressure into one which is very different. This problem is not a concern because we are dealing with FRESHWATER fishes. Exception is when the fish has a very serious open ulcer.

Salt is NOT effective in:

Treating fish lice (argulus), anchorworms (lernea), skin and gill flukes, internal parasites. 
Replacing electrolytes and trace minerals (unless you are using a marine salt mix which also has buffers that will increase your pH). 
Treating viral infections. 
Iodine from table salt will NOT kill your fish. The low levels present in table salt will not reach toxic level, even at treatment levels. Your fish will die of osmotic shock or high salinity way before iodine becomes toxic. If you are still not convinced, cheaper alternatives to aquarium salt are non-iodized table salt, kosher salt, water softener salt (Home Depot sells 40 lb. bags for under $5 that are 99.8% pure NaCl).

All that being said, I don't believe that salt should be constantly used in the aquarium as a general tonic. They are freshwater fish and should remain so.

How to administer 
There are many "Rule of Thumb" guidelines for how much salt to add. Either, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, 1 tbsp/10 gallons, etc... If this has worked for you in the past, fine. I have always dosed my tanks at 0.3% (3 tsp/gallon) when needed, which is considerably higher than many suggest. Only exception to this rule is for nitrite poisoning where a teaspoon of salt will treat over 300 gallons of water. Many believe that the constant use of salt in low dosages is the reason why we are having problems with salt resistant parasites. And as a result, some parasitic infestations need to double the dosage to 0.6% to see any significant improvement.

My recommended dosage, even for ich, is 0.3% (which is a TOTAL of 2.5 lbs/100 gallons or 3 tsp/US gallon). The amount of salt added should be done in 3 equal increments over 3 days and left in the system for 2 weeks (that's 1 tsp per gallon per day for 3 days), in which time, the salt should be taken out through water changes. ALWAYS pre-dissolve the salt before introducing it to your tank! Measure out the desired amount of salt, add aquarium water to a bucket or cup (I use a 44 oz plastic "Big Gulp" cup) and stir like crazy until the salt dissolves. Slowly pour the salt solution into the tank and make sure you are not pouring it on top of your fish. I prefer to pour the solution in the path of a powerhead to help distribute it throughout the tank. A "blast" of concentrated salt solution may cause severe burns to your fish. Therefore, NEVER add salt directly to your tank.

For salt dips, a 1% solution (9 tsp/gallon) can be used for around 10-15 minutes and then the fish is returned back to clean aquarium water. For extreme cases and as a last resort, a strong 3% salt solution can be used. The fish must be constantly monitored and is basically kept in the bath until they roll over and is transferred IMMEDIATELY back to the aquarium. Fish will try to adjust to the changing salinity and the longer you wait, the more adjustments the fish needs to make. I'm not a big fan of salt dips because they are very stressful on the fish.

One final note, livebearers and cichlids will tolerate much higher levels of salt than many other freshwater fishes such as characins (tetras), loaches, and catfishes. So this practice is not recommended for all species.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

SAFETYpin said:


> Table salt is fine, I believe one Tbs will treat up to 300 gallons for brown blood (Nitrite posining)
> 
> Salt - Frequently asked questions
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks!


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