# NEED URGENT HELP/ADVICE!!!



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Hey all,
some of you may have seen the pictures of my Manny I posted a few days ago, and then everything was still fine and dandy.
I fed him a smelt the same evening, and left it in over night, as he hadn't finished it yet (have done that many times before in the past). The next morning, everything seemed well, until 5 minutes after I switched the tank lights on: then Manny started freaking out completely, racing through the tank, crashing into decor, tank walls, everything, breaking the surface - in other words, (apparantly) blind panick. This happened a few times that morning and as a result, he's covered with scratches and head, flanks, fins, etc. (luckily no cuts or open wounds), but otherwise he looks all right (colors still vibrant).
Besides freaking out like that, I noticed that he was breathing very rapidly, and hovered just below the water surface (normally he chills in mid-level).

So I removed all food remains (just one small piece of smelt was left that morning), did a 50% water change, added some salt, then covered the tank with a towel, switched off the tank lights, and let him be for the rest of the day.
The next morning he was looking/acting much better, even chasing my finger again as always, but he was still breathing faster than usual (although that didn't worry me that much, as he usually breathes faster after chasing my finger and being very active).
The following two days all seemed to be well, until this morning: he totally freaked out once again (this time I wasn't even near the tank: Manny could not see me), and everything started all over again (the hovering near the surface, very rapid breathing, etc.) This time, he also started making summersaults for a while, lookin/acting very disorientated. Now all is calm again - he just hovers around a little just below the water line, breathing very fast, often tilting his head slightly (nose pointing towards surface, but just a few degrees), but no flipping out or or other scary things.

So far what happened the last week. Nothing has changed in that tank for months, so the only thing that could have been the cause (as far as I'm aware) is the piece of smelt. But could one piece of smelt cause such a surge in ammonia and have such a dramatic effect on the fish (the rapid breathing for days might suggest gill problems, but I cannot place the disorientation/making summersaults, and he does not have the cloudy eyes typical for ammonia spikes). As said, it's his acting that baffles me, as he looks fine on the surface (colors still good).

Bottom line is that I really need some advice or pointers: I have no idea what this might be (have no test kit, so the ammonia theory is just a hypothesis, although a likely one given the smelt being the only thing out of the ordinary before it all started), no idea what I can do for the poor fellow.
It's absolutely gutting to see him in a condition like this, and I really want to know if there's a chance of getting better. If not, I will put him out of his misery (can't bear to see him suffer like this for much longer).

So what would you do in this case? Can he get through this and recover completely? Is there anyone to whom this sounds familiar? Any tips? Any suggestions? Anything? I don't know what to do (did everything I could think of - see above), so any (serious) input is welcome.
Please only answers that may help me: keep "Good luck"- or "I'm sorry"-kind of replies out of here (they will be deleted): no matter how much they are appreciated, they are not going to help me any further right now









btw: pictures are useless here, as on the surface he looks fine: just picture Manny close to the water surface, breathing very fast.

**edit**
Video of Manny doing summersaults (he did this just once, for some 2 minutes, but it's enough evidence something's seriously wrong







)
please only download if you want to/can help - don't DL it just to watch it, as my web space's bandwidth is limited - thanks)


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## Pyri (May 26, 2005)

Well you should get all the tests and if you doesn't have, buy. And I recomend that you test oxygen too.


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## Pyri (May 26, 2005)

Couple years ago there was oxygen lack in my pacu tank. And they was acting JUST LIKE your manny. Freaked out when switch light on and breathed rapidly. I bought an airpump and oxygen raised and everything has been great after that. Still I dont know, what caused lack of oxygen. I have huge outside-filter with tank which made hard current on surface and still there wasn't oxygen enough... But now with airpump, there lot of oxygen.

Good luck! Hope your manny get well!


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

It does sound like a lack of oxygen (near the top of tank, 'gasping' for air, etc.) so would recommend getting an airpump on the tank (if you dont have already) and see how that goes after a couple of days. But that wont explain why it suddently started happening after so long in that tank.

I know recently I was away for 1 1/2 weeks and my Manny tank had a huge ammonia spike (my own fault for leaving him with feeders for the first time ever which he killed and didnt eat!) but he seemed totally fine other than a few broken fins, etc. so Im guessing yours isnt down to ammonia.

Get some water tests done, check the pH to make sure that hasnt suddenly changed, check the ammonia incase you've missed any dead food/tank mates, etc. And other than that all you can do is keep him chilled and hopes he pull through.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, just got back from the LFS, and did the things you guys asked for. Here are the results:

- Phosphate: < 0,5 mg/l
- Nitrite NO2: 0 mg/l
- NitrAte N03: 0-10 mg/l (did a 20% water change this morning, and a 50% one last Wednesday)
- pH: ~ 7.5
- KH: ~ 6-10 °d
- DH: > 10 °d & < 16 °d

View attachment 68544


The kit didn't include ammonia (was sold out), but to me the zero nitrItes indicate there has been no ammonia spike of any significance (if the smelt indeed had caused an increase in ammonia, at least some nitrItes would have been detectable by now, 4 days later).

Furthermore, I added some activated Carbon to one of the internal filters, installed a bubble wall, added a few more Red Nose Shrimp (they are extremely sensitive to ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes, so ideal indicator animals), and added a couple of Cardinal Tetra's for food (as said, Manny's been eating very little the last 2 or so months, so a bit of live food might full his stomach a bit - he is picky when it comes to prepared foods, but loves to hunt).

Still to come is a treatment with EasyLife as soon as I'm doing a further water change.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

btw (almost forgot







) - thank you both very much for your input


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Sounds like all is good right now.

I had an instance once like that, exactly like that, and it ended up being my ph had dropped like a rocket.I did half a dose of some ph up and it solved the problem.typically my ph runs 6.2-6.6, my low ph kit had me down below 5















I never adjust ph, I never did figure out what the problem was, as all my other readings were up to par.
Everything was fine after that........


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, on the surface all seems ok, but something is still really worrying me: he's still panting non-stop, but I doubt adding a bubble wall, or carbon to a filter, will have an immedeate effect. The test results more or less confirm the water chemistry is up to par, so I'm thinking more and more about an oxygen/CO2 related problem indeed - but if only I knew how to confirm (or dismiss) this...

What's making me more nervous than his rapid breathing is his apparant loss of coordination and balance - he seems to have trouble steering himself into the right direction, and he for some reason when making a turn 9 out of 10 times he goes counterclockwise (it's not a natural movement). He's also constantly moving his pectoral fins (also not in a natural way, like he did before all this started), as if he constantly has to make minor corrections to counter the somewhat uncontrolled movements his body makes, so to remain stable. It's not that he has no control over his body whatsoever and just drifts where ever the currents move him to, but he's not in total control of it either.
So something seems wrong with his coordination and balance - hopefully it's just the stress caused by the ordeal, but if that's not the case I'm affraid it might be permanent damage (if only I could find out what is causing it, and how to treat it...)

It's really horrible to see him like this: I have no idea wheter he's suffering or having a hard time (his constant movements seem exhausting, although that's just how I see it...)
At times I wish he'd either just die or make a radical improvement: this "not getting any further" is nervewrecking


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, despite al your help and assistance, Manny didn't make it - he was more dead than alive this morning, so I decided to put him down









I can't believe it: lasy Tuesday I shot and posted some new pics of him, and all was well (he was active, alert and agressive as always, and looked as awesome as always) - the next morning I noticed he wasn't doing great, and from there it only got worse and worse...
Part of the hobby, I know, but one I could do without









Thank you all very much for your input, guys - at least I know that with your help I did everything I could...


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## killarbee (Jan 23, 2004)

sh*t Jonas that really really sucks !!!








Altough i wasn't a big help on this situation, i followed the whole story and we all know that you did the best for your manny to save him. I can't believe this happended to you. If there is someone who takes good care for his fish it must be you. I still wonder what caused all this








may manny









and take care J


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Thanks Frans









I'm closing this thread, since there's nothing left to do: I started a new thread here: http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...view=getnewpost


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