# Multiple Spilo



## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

I know that I have read that this has been done before, but does anyone know if you could house multiple s. spilo in the same tank.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

you been in here way long enough to know the answer man.....

Another word house mutiple Serra....we all know what going to happen.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Yes, I know the general answer to that question because they are serras, but my first p's were spilos and I housed five together until they were 3". Of course, I had numerous fin nips etc.. but I did have some success with it. I did not know if anyone has any 6" or so in the same tank.

I have read that spilos were one of the very few serras that have been breed in captivity, and loosely shoaled. Yes, they were housed in large public aquariums. Simply wondering if anyone has done this on a smaller tank scale.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

I think it might work for a while (even a long while with a huge tank) but not in the long term...








!


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Use to have ten 6 incher in a 125 gal!!!!







Have since then broke that project down!!!


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

I had 10 spilos/macs in a 100 gallon tank. I had to remove 1 due to aggression, the other nine lasted a long time till I decided to sell them.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Did you have major problems with the remaining nine regarding fin nips, etc.?


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## luckydog (Apr 20, 2005)

I know a few people that have had success keeping them together, one in particular has kept them together for around 2 years, and they have bred several times for him. He gave me some of his babies.

Bottom line is, yes it can be done, if you have the dedication. And don't expect show quality fish- there are going to be fin-nips and aggression. And another thing- Expect a few casualties, because it will probably happen.

I'm giving it a shot- I have 6 3.5"ers in a 50 gal, and I'm really starting to worry because there is quite a bit of aggression right now with the summer heat and everything. I'm building a 180 for them and I'm trying to get it done as soon as possible so I have a few fish left to put in the thing.

If you try it, good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions- either on the forums or to me personally. I will do my best to help out


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Thanks for the help luckydog!! I have not decided if I want to try a shoal of spilos, or go with a Rhom.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> luckydog Posted Today, 09:37 AM
> I know a few people that have had success keeping them together, one in particular has kept them together for around 2 years, and they have bred several times for him. He gave me some of his babies.
> 
> *Bottom line is, yes it can be done, if you have the dedication. And don't expect show quality fish- there are going to be fin-nips and aggression. And another thing- Expect a few casualties, because it will probably happen. *
> ...


My only other advice on this topic; If you keep your fish under stress all the time:

1. constant water changes,

2. constant visual stress, ie; disturbing them, either physically or visually through motion or outside noises.

Those 2 points can help in keeping mortalities down to a certain degree. You won't prevent them from fin nipping because that is their nature. Also tank raised fish are so genetically washed out that they won't behave "normally" as wild caught fish, so that also helps.


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## luckydog (Apr 20, 2005)

You really think there's a large difference genetically between wild and tank-raised? I haven't thought about it much, but I guess I just figured the were washed out as far as "experience", not necessarily genetically.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

i say it can be done...its a spilo, ive seen them grouped plently of times with no major damage to the fishes....just have a large enough tank.


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## "qickshot" (Apr 19, 2005)

luckydog said:


> I know a few people that have had success keeping them together, one in particular has kept them together for around 2 years, and they have bred several times for him. He gave me some of his babies.
> 
> Bottom line is, yes it can be done, if you have the dedication. And don't expect show quality fish- there are going to be fin-nips and aggression. And another thing- Expect a few casualties, because it will probably happen.
> 
> ...


i was goin to tell them about him


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Dawgz said:


> i say it can be done...its a spilo, ive seen them grouped plently of times with no major damage to the fishes....just have a large enough tank.


Dawgz, what size tank do you recommend?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> luckydog Posted Today, 09:28 AM
> You really think there's a large difference genetically between wild and tank-raised? I haven't thought about it much, *but I guess I just figured the were washed out as far as "experience", not necessarily genetically. *


That's exactly what I mean. Fish are genetically engineered to behave a certain way in nature and experience (learned traits) are one of the key elements in keeping it fed and ALIVE. Genetics aren't just about "looks". Tank raised are largely boring fish in that they become accustomed to being fed at certain times and certain places.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Coldfire said:


> I know that I have read that this has been done before, but does anyone know if you could house multiple s. spilo in the same tank.


Spilos group together in the wild so there is a much greater chance of keeping them together in the home aquarium then the species that dont. This might come as a shock to some of the newer members here..but these fish were being bred in captivity...and distributed throughout the hobby....long before your mystery man ever heard of the fish.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 05:28 PM
> QUOTE(Coldfire @ Jul 28 2006, 07:35 AM)
> 
> I know that I have read that this has been done before, but does anyone know if you could house multiple s. spilo in the same tank.
> ...


Quite true. Tony Ostazawitz (sp?) was mass producing the species in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois since the early 90's up to 2000 when he moved out Michigan to his present location in another state. I would guess that Tony's fish and their offspring are 80% of what is out there today. Just because 1 or 2 people are on the internet talking about the "breeding program" doesn't mean they are the only ones doing it for personal gain. Tony didn't even use the internet to broadcast his business or achievement. Of course, this doesn't diminish anyone's achievement as Serrasalmus species are difficult lot to breed. But no one has the market cornered on it.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree Frank...and I wasnt even referring to Tony..but a friend of mine that bred them on a regular basis 5 or 6 years ago...I would bet his fish make up the other 20%







. I know he was supplying retailers in the midwest and on the east coast where they were distributed all over the US.
And although he was on the internet at the time..he never discussed his breeding or business arrangements...with spilo/mac or sanchezi.


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## luckydog (Apr 20, 2005)

I was just relating what I know, and what I've seen with my own two eyes. I'm sure these other breeders had their reasons for not "going public" with their experiences, but for those very reasons I don't know anything about their projects. Fortunately, in my case and many others, one was willing to share his experiences, and many have benefited.

But like Frank said, anyone who has successfully bred and cohabed serrasalmus certainly deserves respect and the hobby as a whole is indebted to them for making it what it is today. Props to them, and someday I hope to join the "Holy Relm" of Serra breeders.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 06:03 PM
> I agree Frank...and I wasnt even referring to Tony..but a friend of mine that bred them on a regular basis 5 or 6 years ago...I would bet his fish make up the other 20% . I know he was supplying retailers in the midwest and on the east coast where they were distributed all over the US.
> And although he was on the internet at the time..he never discussed his breeding or business arrangements...with spilo/mac or sanchezi.


I know that. Even HOLLYWOOD has friends that breed species that are uncommon to people's knowledge, but don't do the "internet" because there are always kids that demand proof. Or at worst immediately want "freebies". For any one person to proclaim themselves a "serra breeding god" is well, silly. Hopefully, there is no one out there doing that. That would dismiss published works by Azuma and many other fish breeders that are indeed producing them for the hobby or science.



> luckydog Posted Today, 06:19 PM
> I was just relating what I know, and what I've seen with my own two eyes. I'm sure these other breeders had their reasons for not "going public" with their experiences, but for those very reasons I don't know anything about their projects. Fortunately, in my case and many others, one was willing to share his experiences, and many have benefited.
> 
> But like Frank said, anyone who has successfully bred and cohabed serrasalmus certainly deserves respect and the hobby as a whole is indebted to them for making it what it is today. Props to them, and someday I hope to join the "Holy Relm" of Serra breeders.


Its all good.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Coldfire said:


> i say it can be done...its a spilo, ive seen them grouped plently of times with no major damage to the fishes....just have a large enough tank.


Dawgz, what size tank do you recommend?
[/quote]

well depends, how many spilos are we talkn about?


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

So basically when these people were selling there fish they were claiming they were wild cought ?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> a-ronn Posted Today, 11:06 AM
> So basically when these people were selling there fish they were claiming they were wild cought ?


We've basically gone off topic, so I'll make this short. Yes, in some cases LFS were calling them wild caught when the fish were actually tank-raised by local breeders. Of course, you would be hard pressed to "prove it". Some breeders do not want the public to know of their existence because of IRS or other factors. Pet stores will not volunteer that info because it does cut into their profits. Its also an unpublished factor that keeps the hobby interesting if you think your fish is "wild caught". Species like S. rhombeus or P. piraya are largely wild caught to my knowledge. Yet according to my sources, there are indeed in-country (S.A.) farming of these fish for the hobby. Hard to prove it anyway unless you are there. Wholesale collectors won't divulge that into (for good reason).

As for S. spilopleura (aka S. maculatus), like any species that is being bred, there are always hobbyists that dream of cornering the market on their fry or see BIG $$$ signs. Nothing wrong with that. In my youth when I was involved with fish breeding, that was my way with producing money to keep my hobby going. Majority of fish store owners began as hobbyists until the money starts to roll in. Others failed and lost their businesses because of flooding the market with species. If you are a hobbyist looking for a good deal, always consider REPUTATION and GOOD REVIEWS before you spend your hard earned dollars on fish. In the 40 plus years I've been involved with fish, particularly piranhas, I've seen many disreputable hobbyists and dealers come and go. Just be watchful of the hype, as some are good used car salesmen.









As for the tank size, always use the largest tank you can afford. With grouping species like S. maculatus, 125g is a good start for 4 to 6 semi-adult fish.


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## oscarfish (Mar 1, 2004)

fishoffury has a sweet tank of spilos and i believe they have been in the same tank for more than four years and they are HUGE all over the 10" mark. do a search of his name in the pictures and video section.


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

I just think they dont want people know they are not wild cought because that = less money. It really takes alot out of the hobby if all the fish your getting have been bred. Im not saying they have, but i wouldnt go get a so called wild cought spilo after reading this. I like knowing my fish have been wild cought i think its alot cooler. Not from some breeder who produces a sh*t load of them and are a dime a dozen.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> a-ronn Posted Today, 01:07 PM
> I just think they dont want people know they are not wild cought because that = less money. It really takes alot out of the hobby if all the fish your getting have been bred. Im not saying they have, *but i wouldnt go get a so called wild cought spilo after reading this.* I like knowing my fish have been wild cought i think its alot cooler. Not from some breeder who produces a sh*t load of them and are a dime a dozen.


I understand your feelings. Which is why I said KNOW YOUR SOURCE by REPUTATION. For example, George Fear imports wild fish including spilols. Does he buy from a local source (ie; breeder)? I don't know, but his reputation is such that he sells fish that are indeed "wild caught". So with that, I would say he is a good source. If you buy fish from a private breeder, you will also run into genetic problems. They may reproduce easier, but at the same token, you are producing inferior stock. Let me qualify "inferior", true fish breeders allow only the best fish to breed for color and body tone and size. If you have a fish breeder that doesn't take those things into account (in other words breeds just for profit), then that is a disservice to the hobby as a whole. Again, its knowing your source and what they produce. Not an easy task if you go with someone that has been breeding fish for lets say just a couple of years as opposed to someone that has been breeding fish for years. You can also ask questions about the fish you intend to buy, which is where education comes in. You can pick out the frauds by how little they know, yet profess to know everything or color it up as if they know it all by their razzle dazzle. Just some advice to consider.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

a-ronn said:


> I just think they dont want people know they are not wild cought because that = less money. It really takes alot out of the hobby if all the fish your getting have been bred. Im not saying they have, but i wouldnt go get a so called wild cought spilo after reading this. I like knowing my fish have been wild cought i think its alot cooler. Not from some breeder who produces a sh*t load of them and are a dime a dozen.


I am not saying the retailers would sell the fish as wild caught. Just like they sell wild reds and tank bred reds....Im sure they would do the same with spilo's/macs.


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## Ducklake (Jun 1, 2003)

I had multiple Spilo's together for a couple years, i bought them off a guy from the old predatoryfish forum. They weren't wild, they bred in his aquarium.









View attachment 115162


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

I think if you can obtain some tank bred macs/spilos, these would be the best for trying to keep groups together. Keeping wild ones together failed for me and many others. I had tank bred ones for 8-9 monthes now and one death out of 10 fish. They really remind me of tank bred red belly, the way they eat, and what not.

Only reason Im doing it is to breed the fish, problem with that is I know the parents of my fish were tank bred, kind of junky genetics, but a personal goal of mine to breed other species besides red belly.

It gets old raising fry, it is alot of work


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

All im saying is i think it is wrong for people to breed fish and sell them as wild cough to make more money.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Nice pics Ducklake...







!


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2006)

ive seen a big shoal of spilos i can get the video, (scroll down)


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## luckydog (Apr 20, 2005)

That was sweet, too bad it wasn't longer...


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2006)

the video is longer let my try to fix it


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2006)

full video i hope this works


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

The link did not work, but thanks for trying!

I agree, if I decide to try housing several spilos they will be tank raised so they will used to being around one another.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

that vid does NOTHING except bring up a blank page.

do you have to be a member at MunsterFishKeepers.com to see it?


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2006)

lament configuration said:


> that vid does NOTHING except bring up a blank page.
> 
> do you have to be a member at MunsterFishKeepers.com to see it?


hmm maybe, well that sucks









hmm i have the video but its not up loading, ah ill put it on youtube


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2006)

yay i hope this works


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

That was fn sweet.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Now, that is what I am talking about. That set up is sweet as hell!


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2006)

Coldfire said:


> Now, that is what I am talking about. That set up is sweet as hell!


cool,
it worked but im not going to be on as much cause im in cali right now







yah i found it on another forum.


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