# Water requirements



## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

I have had some success breeding P. Nattereri. Now I desire to breed another species. Looking thorough the post it seems there is a difference in wild and captive breeding. Are there any trace elements, or minerals required to be added to the tap water. Or do you build the water with reverse osmosis?? IF using RO what do I add???

After talking with many discus breeders, there appears to be different elements used with Asian and South American Discus. Do piranha require these elements to feel more relaxed, and at home. I am new here, and really don't know. A guy on another forum said you guys have much wisdom in breeding piranhas&#8230;

All help will be appreciated.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I would contact NIKE or HOLLYWOOD. They are our red belly experts...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Piranha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 01:35 PM
> I have had some success breeding P. Nattereri. Now I desire to breed another species. Looking thorough the post it seems there is a difference in wild and captive breeding. Are there any trace elements, or minerals required to be added to the tap water. Or do you build the water with reverse osmosis?? IF using RO what do I add???
> 
> After talking with many discus breeders, there appears to be different elements used with Asian and South American Discus. Do piranha require these elements to feel more relaxed, and at home. I am new here, and really don't know. A guy on another forum said you guys have much wisdom in breeding piranhas&#8230;
> ...


Apples and oranges, to different physiologically different species and totally different water requirements (cichlidae vs serrasalminae). Piranas will breed and spawn in almost any water conditions as long as the basics are met, ie; good feeding, clean water, separate sexes and left alone to their own devices.


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

Xenon said:


> I would contact NIKE or HOLLYWOOD. They are our red belly experts...


 Thanks for the advice, but I have no problem breeding reds. I have a captive colony that breeds like crazy. Drop the water turn on the strobe light... Raise water for 2 days, and in a week I got tons of babies.

I got 4 Eigenmanni in a tank, and a tank of Cariba. The Eigenmanni are my goal. I have talked with SC personally, and he can give me no starting point, but study the seasonal changes in their native biotope. I'm no scientist. Why do I have to study just to breed fish? If there are chemicals or trace elements to add, I just want to know what they are.

You guys are the experts


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

hastatus said:


> > Piranha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 01:35 PM
> > I have had some success breeding P. Nattereri. Now I desire to breed another species. Looking thorough the post it seems there is a difference in wild and captive breeding. Are there any trace elements, or minerals required to be added to the tap water. Or do you build the water with reverse osmosis?? IF using RO what do I add???
> >
> > After talking with many discus breeders, there appears to be different elements used with Asian and South American Discus. Do piranha require these elements to feel more relaxed, and at home. I am new here, and really don't know. A guy on another forum said you guys have much wisdom in breeding piranhas&#8230;
> ...


 So all this talk about simulating the death of the river, and simulating the begin of the life cycle are not true. So I don't need to play with light, temperature or water level??? Even my reds won't breed unless the environment if modified. Then why all the post about what triggers spawning. Some one is lying and it's not funny.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Piranha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 06:11 PM
> QUOTE (Xenon @ Feb 11 2004, 05:41 PM)
> I would contact NIKE or HOLLYWOOD. They are our red belly experts...
> 
> ...


The answer is obvious, because you don't know. Do a web search on water parameters or visit OPEFE there is water chemistry information there. Ultimately, it is up the fishes themselves that decide whether or not they breed for you. There is no magic wand or SC formula that can guarantee success everytime. Putting aside all the advertising skills on such grandiose proclamations, piranas are unpredicable.


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

Have the Eigenmanni been bred in a tank??? I find nothing on these fish, but got them to school. What should I try first??? Cariba or Eigenmanni??? You may be right about staying away. 1 tries to bite me through the glass every time I go near the tank. I really want to show my buddy up and breed these guys. Any links would be very appreciative.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> anha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 06:16 PM
> QUOTE (hastatus @ Feb 11 2004, 06:10 PM)
> QUOTE
> Piranha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 01:35 PM
> ...


Again, this is a topic that lends itself to personal opinion and experience. Piranas have spawned in water (aquario) where no water changes or modificiations have happened. In other waters (aquario) where modifications are met, they do breed and spawn, it other situations they don't. So it is solely a fishes choice whether or not their individual needs are met. There is no hard and fast rule on these fishes. That is what makes breeding them a challenge.

_Some one is lying and it's not funny. _...It's not a question of lying, it is a question of making broad statements into concrete as a rule for breeding piranas.

Hollywood and Nike as stated can give you a much better idea on what works for them regarding Pygocentrus. As for Serrasalmus_Collector, he has been successful with one species which others have already accomplished as much as P. nattereri. That is NOT meant to short-change his achievement, but just letting you know its not a rare evident and was published in TFH by Hiroshe Azuma and has been accomplished by hobbyists as well.


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

Well Hastatus. What have you bred in captivity? Nothing against Nike or the Holly person, but I have mastered reds. The strobe light method given to me works 100%. They always breed 3 weeks afterwards, and go through a month long breeding cycle. Actually I hate reds. Every time I go in the pet shop they ask me to breed them. They aren't worth the time. After over a dozen spawns, I want something more challenging.

Does you name mean you have had success with Hastatus piranhas, or just a favorite. Back to the subject. Do you have any pointers on S.Eigenmanni breeding in captivity? I just want a shoal of captives. Just to have 50 in a tank shoaling is my dream.

Can you help me put together a good experiment, with and outline. My buddy tests his tanks twice a day and graphs the changes over time, then compares to the native biotope. Next he formulates subtle changes, and starts all over again. That's too much work. Give me an easier method. I don't want a book like him. I just want to breed the Eigenmanni. If there is success, there will be no dealers with their claws in my fish. I don't need the money.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Piranha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 01:35 PM
> * I have had some success breeding P. Nattereri.* Now I desire to breed another species. Looking thorough the post it seems there is a difference in wild and captive breeding. Are there any trace elements, or minerals required to be added to the tap water. Or do you build the water with reverse osmosis?? IF using RO what do I add???
> 
> After talking with many discus breeders, there appears to be different elements used with Asian and South American Discus. Do piranha require these elements to feel more relaxed, and at home. I am new here, and really don't know. A guy on another forum said you guys have much wisdom in breeding piranhas&#8230;
> ...





> Piranha_Adept Posted on Feb 11 2004, 07:05 PM
> Well Hastatus. What have you bred in captivity? Nothing against Nike or the Holly person, *but I have mastered reds. The strobe light method given to me works 100%. They always breed 3 weeks afterwards, and go through a month long breeding cycle*. Actually I hate reds. Every time I go in the pet shop they ask me to breed them. They aren't worth the time. After over a dozen spawns, I want something more challenging.
> 
> Does you name mean you have had success with Hastatus piranhas, or just a favorite. Back to the subject. Do you have any pointers on S.Eigenmanni breeding in captivity? I just want a shoal of captives. Just to have 50 in a tank shoaling is my dream.
> ...


Seems to be a contradiction in your statements. In either case, good luck with finding out information. You'll receive no further advice (or information) from me. Perhaps others will enjoy this type of thread. Later~


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

Why no information??? Isn't this a forum to come for information??? I just want a starting point. Why must you be secrative?


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Leave them guys alone. They aren't gonna help. I told you that. It's like marial arts. To have success you have to view what you know about piranhas to be a half full glass of water. You must empty the glass and open the mind to other possibilities.

Study the rivers the fish come frome. Study the temperature change of the water over an entire year. Look to changes in hardness and PH... Start there... Lowering the water is probably the only sound advice you will get...

You must take that scientific approach. You must view youself as a pioneer, document and explore. Don't share partial success it will only hurt you in the long run.

As for that statement about me breeding 1 kind of fish I have bred 3. Ruby red (SpiloCF), Macualtus (possible spilopleura), and Reds. (nats)...

Explore, and don't ask for help, you see the answer...Let's look into getting the same vacation this year, and heading to South America. Testing the water and observing the fish in nature will be the most helpful thing you can get.

Sorry, I can't help with Eigenmanni. I know very little about the fish. I don't even know there origin..


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 11 2004, 09:38 PM
> Leave them guys alone. They aren't gonna help. I told you that. It's like marial arts. To have success you have to view what you know about piranhas to be a half full glass of water. You must empty the glass and open the mind to other possibilities.
> 
> Study the rivers the fish come frome. Study the temperature change of the water over an entire year. Look to changes in hardness and PH... Start there... Lowering the water is probably the only sound advice you will get...
> ...


Ruby reds (as coined by Geoge Fear) is applicable to Serrasalmus spilopleura not SPILO CF which is an entirely different species. Your mixing species classifications up and unfortunately common names are clouding the waters. My reference to your breeding one species was in reference to Serrasalmus species not Pygocentrus. Pygocentrus nattereri are the rabbits of the water when it comes to breeding. Serrasalmus spilopleura and S. maculatus are near 2d to the metaphor. In either case, your accomplishments are duly noted.

As for this opening remark:

_serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 11 2004, 09:38 PM 
Leave them guys alone. They aren't gonna help. I told you that. It's like marial arts. To have success you have to view what you know about piranhas to be a half full glass of water. You must empty the glass and open the mind to other possibilities._

People have helped. All one needs to do is review the material published by Nike and Hollywood. Hollywood has been breeding piranas longer than you have played with them. Nike has excellent articles on P. nattereri breeding.

Empty glass can also leave you with an empty head.









As for Pristobrycon eigenmanni, both you and your friend there are welcome to visit OPEFE water chemistry and S. (Pristobrycon) eigenmanni web page for locality data. Perhaps even buying Los Peces Caribes de Venezuela might be additional help on water parameters. In either case, the gentleman has stated he doesn't want to study so his ability to learn is cut off by attitude.

By all means SC, you have professed your knowledge then you should be able to give this gentleman all the knowledge he needs on successful breeding of species instead of taking up valuable thread space here. I'm not quite sure why you both are posting questions/answers when a phone call to each other can better solve the mysteries of fish breeding. What I detect in this remark; _Leave them guys alone. They aren't gonna help._... leaves a big question in my mind why this post is even happening. In either case, I'll leave it open a bit longer and if no fruitation comes from other members, I'll then lock it up. Please keep it clean. And have a good day!


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I appologize for this mess. Tom is a guy I work with. He has bred reds for over 4 years. I am very new to the hobby. Valentines day marks my 2nd year in the piranha hobby.

This guy got some fish, I assume from Ash or Perdro. He shoaled them, and now wants to breed them. I told him about this forum. There were links to my computer @ work. He logged in and @#$#$ with you guys. He is a good guy. He just wants quick results. I am not a professional , and he came here for help and fun.

Sorry for the mis classification. I can't over express I am poor with identifying piranhas. I sincerly thought the fish that bred were SpiloCF..

Here is the link where I have pictures of the pair.

Wow just Spilo's

Since they are spilo's I may trade for Eigenmanni. The entire spilo breeding thing is done, and I want to move to another fish...

If I can purchase the Eigenmanni, perhaps me and Tom can work together in seperate locals...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Those are not Ruby Reds (S. spilopleura), but the SPILO CF (= S. altispinis). They are sometimes mixed in with P. nattereri as their coloration is close to that species and S. rhombeus (shape and eye color). They were also misidentified as Spilopleura when they were first spawned in captivity at the Cincinnati Zoo. Quick results is not how nature works. If has had success with nattereri then he should already knows this.

As for Pristobrycon eigenmanni, there is no information on breeding them because they have not been bred in captivity.

*This thread is now closed.*


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