# Christianity



## Sushi Hunter (Mar 25, 2006)

Okay. I know alot of people are gunna hate me, and flame on me for this, but i have to get the truth out there for all of you. So Christians.... This is why I am not Christian anymore.

Why I am not a Christian
The Old Testament is Metaphorical, not literal-bullsnake

I'll start this out with Adam and Eve..... BULL.
Ok... So... There were two people... that created us all, and they could communicate with god and eachother right away. Adam and Eve eat some apple... After they eat the apple they somehow right away are like "OMG! I DON'T HAVE CLOTHES ON!!!" and they gain knowledge.... And thats.... Bad?

Yeah... And ok, we have proof, we EVOLVED... Like every other animal we evolved. And what about the dinosaurs, the dinosaurs were here WAY before we were... And somehow, all the animals were created on the same day, inclueding humans. And this human thing, so there was some guy who lived over like 140. But a long time ago life expectancy would by way lower. He would most likely live arount 20-50 years, 50 at like the most.​
Then if you don't have your minds straight yet, then heres another example. Noah, and his ark.

I don't really know how many people he had. But however many he had, even if he have over thousands of people, it would be impossible, yes IMPOSSIBLE for him to build an ark of that size with all the species of animals in it, and 2 of each at that.

The ark, big enough to fit all those animals, that would be HUGE, do you know how many different animals there are? And then gathering them all? So you have all this animals, you have to find 2, and they have to be different sex, and they are spread out all over the world.

Then ok, say you do have this ark, all of the animals are on it. So tell me, how can you feed yourself, plus all these animals in 40 days and 40 nights. Along with it raining, with that much rain the ark would carry to much water and sink.​
Heres another thing. what about most christians forceful attitudes. Try to force most people into christianity. And then ok heres a chuch sign

*JESUS DIED FOR YOU!
LOVE JESUS CHRIST!
COME TO CHURCH!*

Ok first "Jesus died for you"
Alright, cool, he died for me. But why the hell did he die for me? For my sins? Why cant God just let us get forgived for our sins without his son getting killed?​
Then theres "Love Jesus Christ"
Umm... Ok..... Why do i love him? Cause he died? No one loves George Washington Carver cause he died, the love him cause he invented peanut butter. And what if hes not your Gods son, see even Lutherans are more Logical the Catholics. And why do you want to eat something that symbolizes your gods sons blood and flesh. Sorry, im not a cannibal.​
Ok... then "Come to Church"
Again the forceful attitude of a christian. Thats all i have to say about that one.​
and then heres i sign i made

*GEORGE W. CARVER DIED FOR YOU!
LOVE GEORGE W. CARVER!
COME TO HIS HOUSE!*

Would you go to his house if you saw that sign? Probably not, especially if you dont have any idea who he is, all you would know is HE DIED FOR ME!!! WOOO!!!!

Ok now, and then wtf is up with heaven? You can go to heaven if your sins are for given? cant i do anything and my sins are forgiven, cause isn't that what jesus died for? But anyways, i could do to a confession booth or whatever, and say "I killed alot of people, and i have learned from my mistakes, please let god forgive me" there, you might go to jail, and get killed, but then you can go to heaven? If you ask me, even for God, thats WAY to lenient.

And then heaven? What is heaven anyway... Ok, i'll look it up...​Heaven

Christianity.

1. often Heaven The abode of God, the angels, and the souls of those who are granted salvation.
2. An eternal state of communion with God; everlasting bliss.

Ok. Thats heaven. I have some questions.
Why do i wanna live in a dried mud brick building for the rest of my life?
Communion.... Ok so why would I want to talk like a wife to a husband at god for the rest of my life either?
Heres a def for Communion to show you.

communion

1. The act or an instance of sharing, as of thoughts or feelings.
2. Religious or spiritual fellowship.
3. A body of Christians with a common religious faith who practice the same rites; a denomination.
4. Communion Ecclesiastical.
1. The sacrament of the Eucharist received by a congregation.
2. The consecrated elements of the Eucharist.
3. The part of the Mass or a liturgy in which the Eucharist is received.

Ok, for 1 i said what i wanted about that up, and then anyway for...

2. So im gunna be a spiritual friend with god? ok GOOD, ive worshiped him enough.. finally.

3. So now im gunna practice the same thing with god the same thing i practiced when i was alive?

4. 1. Im gunna be a cannibal again.
2. Same thing.
3. So im gunna go to church when im dead with god?
​
Thats all i have to say to you...

FOR NOW!








out.


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## oscared15 (Feb 3, 2006)

aren't you the guy who did that weird thread about the massacre at a sushi bar?


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## Sushi Hunter (Mar 25, 2006)

Yes, yes i am.


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## Kemper1989 (Feb 14, 2005)

boba fett said:


> aren't you the guy who did that weird thread about the massacre at a sushi bar?


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## Kohan Bros. (Aug 24, 2004)

sushi hunter ur sterotyping christians


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## oscared15 (Feb 3, 2006)

what religion are you sushi hunter?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)




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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

uh oh, i smell another thread about to go up in flames


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

> And this human thing, so there was some guy who lived over like 140. But a long time ago life expectancy would by way lower. He would most likely live arount 20-50 years, 50 at like the most.


How do you know what calendar they were using at that time? Maybe, according to their calendar he lived to be 900+years. And the 'old guy' was methuselah and he lived to be 960 some years old, not 140.



> I don't really know how many people he had. But however many he had, even if he have over thousands of people, it would be impossible, yes IMPOSSIBLE for him to build an ark of that size with all the species of animals in it, and 2 of each at that.
> 
> The ark, big enough to fit all those animals, that would be HUGE, do you know how many different animals there are? And then gathering them all? So you have all this animals, you have to find 2, and they have to be different sex, and they are spread out all over the world.
> 
> Then ok, say you do have this ark, all of the animals are on it. So tell me, how can you feed yourself, plus all these animals in 40 days and 40 nights. Along with it raining, with that much rain the ark would carry to much water and sink.


with God, all things are possible.









I really dont claim to be this overly religious person, but what is it with you non belivers? Suddleny my religion offends you? Somehow its your duty to show me the light? Why must science always disprove religion and vise versa? Why cant science and religion coexist? I believe in God and I belives in science. Does science disprove God? Most certainly not. Does God disprove science? Most certainly not. Get off your high horse.


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## Sushi Hunter (Mar 25, 2006)

im not stereotyping christians, whenever i refer to them i said most. But yeah, i don't have a religion.


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## oscared15 (Feb 3, 2006)

> im not stereotyping christians, whenever i refer to them i said most. But yeah, i don't have a religion.


well then STOP telling us what's wrong with our religion


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## Sushi Hunter (Mar 25, 2006)

Alright, this is already up i wont say anymore. But i used to be christian, but i realized it was wrong. And i want people to know about it.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Sushi Hunter said:


> Alright, this is already up i wont say anymore. But i used to be christian, but i realized it was wrong. And i want people to know about it.


Sorry to hear you lost your faith.

Perhaps telling people why you lost faith rather than why christianity is wrong might be a better approach?


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

boba fett said:


> > im not stereotyping christians, whenever i refer to them i said most. But yeah, i don't have a religion.
> 
> 
> well then STOP telling us what's wrong with our religion


agreed. posting this in a more neutral way is better. if you have your 2 cents to lay out lay it out. but you came across a bit condesending with your words. 
im not particular to any religion, still "finding god" if you will. but to each his own. and i realize my understanding of any beliefe is just that...MY understanding. and yours and my educations is partial at best most likely. 
further more, even if the religion is completely laughable to me, if it helps an individual become better, raise a family with principles, increase self esteem, etc...thats about as much as anyone could ask out of any higher power.


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## Sushi Hunter (Mar 25, 2006)

Ex0dus said:


> Alright, this is already up i wont say anymore. But i used to be christian, but i realized it was wrong. And i want people to know about it.


Sorry to hear you lost your faith.

Perhaps telling people why you lost faith rather than why christianity is wrong might be a better approach?
[/quote]

Perhaps i should, but it's to late now.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

well sushi thats what were here for man. sometimes talking about yourself reveals things you never even knew. 
lay it out for us sometime. and if not now, then keep us in mind.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Oy vey...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Xenon said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.


Wordz..........


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Xenon said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.


everything is relative xenon. i think his frustration and confussion is comming out as ignorance. well...i know it is lol. when your on the outside looking in things always seem different. loosing ones faith is something different then never having faith. theres a reason to his frustration even if he is just stirring up a fight with his words. 
ive spent many hours picking apart my own beliefes and always come full circle. im starting to find that "god" wasnt what i used to think. its something much more than a figure. i guess you should expect someone that lost faith in something has anger to deal with, so as people of your own faiths insulting back will only secure his argument.


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

Your point is put across in a completely childish and immature manner.

Which leads me to believe you don't really understand anything about Christianity in the first place.

Or don't want to believe anything that's not of this Earth and life.


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2006)

G23.40SW said:


> I think Jesus drove a Jetta to heaven, because Jetta's are the shiznit!


Off topic, but I must agree!

BTW, "The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful, and has nobody to thank."--Dante Gabriel Rossetti

You want proof of God, look into you mother, you lover's, or your daughters eyes


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## Mykoe817 (Feb 13, 2005)

yo man, everyone has their beliefs... sometimes its better to keep things to urself, you may believe that santa clause is real, but others dont. it means nothing putting out your opinions about things you cant control. all it does is cause drama. sometimes things are best kept to one's self.

u kno... cuz if it sparks something - you might have a fist flying toward your face. shibby happens...


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> I think Jesus drove a Jetta to heaven, because Jetta's are the shiznit!


Off topic, but I must agree!

[/quote]

Oh god damn it DannyBoy.
















Let's just Roshambo and be over with it.


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## luciferzone (Feb 14, 2006)

I dont know,but I think mother mary was was hit in the head with a stck by roman soldier
nocked loopy and raped(then made the whole "you are with child" up).
Question...have any of you ever read the URANTIA book ??


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Xenon said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.


And here I was scrolling down to say that he's an idiot because you don't see christians on this forum bashing other people like intolerant dillholes and you ruined it Mike. Shitty

Well then, how about;

Christians and Atheists deserve each other. Ah well


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## jagoot (Apr 13, 2006)

i have question if you dont believe in god then who do you believe in?? and what religion r you goin to accept if christianity iz not what you want??/


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

jagoot said:


> i have question if you dont believe in god then who do you believe in?? and what religion r you goin to accept if christianity iz not what you want??/


everyone have they own believe........NO religion are bad, NO religion are better then other, everyone have to right to Believe or NOT to believe.


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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

And if you would stop and maybe do a little homework....Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark are both stories found in the Old Testament, the first 5 books of which are in the Torah. It is not unique of the Christian faith at all, so your rambling attack should have included Jews and also Muslims as well. All three religions believe in the same God and the same history through Abraham, etc.

AND, only fundamentalist Christians take the ENTIRE Bible literally. The majority of Christians (myself included) believe in science, evolution, etc. and that the stories like the creation story and Noah's Ark story among many, many others, are not literal.

Think of it like a newspaper. On the front page, it may read "Three killed in late night shooting" and on the sports page a headline might read "Knicks killed in fourth quarter by Piston three-point rally" Does that mean the same thing? Just as you can't read an ENTIRE newspaper literally, you can't the Bible entirely literal either--some parts are, others are not.

So get your facts straight. You were actually referring to the religions of the vast majority of people on the planet, yet describing beliefs that only a small minority of people in only one of those religions believe in.


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

Xenon said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.











my parents are both jewish and cristian or catholic or whatever it is, i think the 2 constrict peoples live and make them stereotype peope as you just did, i could say the same for catholics, and dont even get me started on jews, we all have our differences and thats why we all live here where we are free to believe what we want to








shame on sushi for starting this thread and actually spending about an hour posting that first post.
xenon.......... since i dont really believe in much of anything due to the crappyness of the world, i guess that makes me an athiest, so i just wanna make sure, you think im a [email protected] retard?
or maybe its all of you who actually pray to a god you will never see, and what has he done for you? last i checked he hasnt paid any of my bills


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## wasabi-glow (Jun 30, 2005)

Forgive him for he don't know what he's talking... 
No one is forcing you. You can be what you want.


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

joey said:


> or maybe its all of you who actually pray to a god you will never see, and what has he done for you? last i checked he hasnt paid any of my bills


What has he done for all of us? Maybe Life is a good answer. And the goverment made money not God, and your bills you put on yourself, god isnt gonna pay them for you. People arent thankful for life anymore these days, cant we just be happy we are alive, or are you gonna be worried about how you put yourself in debt and worry about money all the time, just be happy with life in general.
And all religions beliving in god are christians, if you are catholic, lutheran, jewish or whatever religion you so happened to be you are christian.

In the end you will be before god and you shall be judged. Just remember that, you wont answer to anyone but him.


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2006)

Sushi, many Christians don't read the Old Testament as if it were a historical document. Back when I had a religon, I always read the Old Testment for its metaphors, its connotations, and the lessons they teach. I never believed the stories were meant to be taken literally.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Bullsnake said:


> Sushi, many Christians don't read the Old Testament as if it were a historical document. Back when I had a religon, I always read the Old Testment for its metaphors, its connotations, and the lessons they teach. I never believed the stories were meant to be taken literally.


hmmm thats a new way to look at it. 
you know whats funny, this thread is totally making me interested in the bible again. i need to go back and read a little more. 
my problem was i always thought too much when i read it and didnt take much in a metaphorical sense.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

I wonder if Jenkins has anything to add here?


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## Sushi Hunter (Mar 25, 2006)

Bullsnake said:


> Sushi, many Christians don't read the Old Testament as if it were a historical document. Back when I had a religon, I always read the Old Testment for its metaphors, its connotations, and the lessons they teach. I never believed the stories were meant to be taken literally.


You do have a point there, and thanks for saying something reasonable this time instead of posting like 3 "BAN HIM" pics.

I still don't understand why god would just let you off if you confess your sins. There should be at least something that goes against you, besides guilt.

I'll change my first post a little to go with what you say.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

Sushi Hunter said:


> I still don't understand why god would just let you off if you confess your sins. There should be at least something that goes against you, besides guilt.


I don't know. I guess it would be a vindictive God that demands that people pay reparations for their wrong-doings.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can give you a better answer.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Sushi Hunter said:


> Sushi, many Christians don't read the Old Testament as if it were a historical document. Back when I had a religon, I always read the Old Testment for its metaphors, its connotations, and the lessons they teach. I never believed the stories were meant to be taken literally.


You do have a point there, and thanks for saying something reasonable this time instead of posting like 3 "BAN HIM" pics.

I still don't understand why god would just let you off if you confess your sins. There should be at least something that goes against you, besides guilt.

I'll change my first post a little to go with what you say.
[/quote]

sorry man, i didnt mean it like that.

In regards to your question. Are you a parent? Its much like what a parent here on earth woudl do for their children. God is your parent, confess what you did wrong and ask forgivness and forgivness shall be granted. 
Why do you feel God should work on the demerit system?


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

you need to re-read about noah's ark..it doesn't say 2 of every single animal, that's just the pre-school version that maxed out your reading level probably


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## jagoot (Apr 13, 2006)

sushi hunter are you an athesiest now


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## Uncle Rico (Sep 4, 2005)

I totally agree with the people who say that the Old Testament was not written to be taken literally. I mean, if the whole world really was underwater then we would not have our wonderful piranhas today because the salt water would have killed them all.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Peerahnya said:


> I totally agree with the people who say that the Old Testament was not written to be taken literally. I mean, if the whole world really was underwater then we would not have our wonderful piranhas today because the salt water would have killed them all.


yeah rico, thats...really deep lol
actually there just isnt enough water in the world to submerge everything anyways. i think my issue is i think too much like this. when i hear the world was flooded like that i cant help but say to myself.."uhhh, are you sure?" instead of just going "wooowwww" and reading on. 
like i said, i need to hit the book again sometime to understand better. my knowledge is sparce at best


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## Jenkins (Mar 12, 2006)

Dr.Zoidberg said:


> I wonder if Jenkins has anything to add here?


ha ha, i do actually. i just dont like how serious and forceful some christians are, going to 3rd world countries and decieving people into joining the religion. it just pisses me off. the serious christians also make me mad, my friends mom is that way, having all this "christ loves you" all around her house, it makes me feel like its being shoved into my life. but, i guess im just whining about it. the world just works that way, and will always work that way, and i cant change it.

ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Sushi Hunter said:


> Sushi, many Christians don't read the Old Testament as if it were a historical document. Back when I had a religon, I always read the Old Testment for its metaphors, its connotations, and the lessons they teach. I never believed the stories were meant to be taken literally.


You do have a point there, and thanks for saying something reasonable this time instead of posting like 3 "BAN HIM" pics.

I still don't understand why god would just let you off if you confess your sins. There should be at least something that goes against you, besides guilt.

I'll change my first post a little to go with what you say.
[/quote]

That is one problem with monotheistism ( One God ). It doesn't logically make sense to have one God create everyone, thing, action and thought just to have you repent for the thoughts you think. In a monotheistic universe, everything that may happen are has happened, was created by one deity. Both bad and good events.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.


Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


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## Jenkins (Mar 12, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.
> 
> 
> Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


I guess its just because i grew up in the world of islam, and when i learned about christianity i thought "thats pretty weird" some people say that christianity and islam are both pretty much based around the same ideas, but they're completely wrong. Its like, if you have a favorite video game, then it gets replaced by some other video game you're not used to, its just strange and doesnt make sense. in islam there is only one god, he doesnt give birth, he was never birthed, he creates. in christianinty, the god is way lenient and has given birth to christ, who walks the earth. Allah does not walk the earth, but is everywhere all the time, not much different from christianity there. to sum it all up, im used to islam, and when i learned about christianity, i thought it was dumb. i guess thats just the way most humans work, foreign=bad.


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## jagoot (Apr 13, 2006)

susi hunter man can you plz tell me what religion you believe in now, iam just curios...


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## Macho smile (Feb 15, 2006)

I rather live thinking there is a God, and die to find one, then live like there is no God and die and see one. Eternity in HELL is a long long time to be there. I'm a Jesus Freak,


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## colt (Apr 16, 2006)

Jenkins said:


> > ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.
> 
> 
> Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


I guess its just because i grew up in the world of islam, and when i learned about christianity i thought "thats pretty weird" some people say that christianity and islam are both pretty much based around the same ideas, but they're completely wrong. Its like, if you have a favorite video game, then it gets replaced by some other video game you're not used to, its just strange and doesnt make sense. in islam there is only one god, he doesnt give birth, he was never birthed, he creates. in christianinty, the god is way lenient and has given birth to christ, who walks the earth. Allah does not walk the earth, but is everywhere all the time, not much different from christianity there. to sum it all up, im used to islam, and when i learned about christianity, i thought it was dumb. i guess thats just the way most humans work, foreign=bad.








[/quote]

Iam a muslim, I don't think Christianity is dumb at all. What I have found is that Christians have idols...which is not accepted in Islam. The Qur'an refers to the Book(bible) often as well as the Torah.

I guess I better not say more, this could turn into a war over religion...


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## wasabi-glow (Jun 30, 2005)

colt said:


> > ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.
> 
> 
> Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


I guess its just because i grew up in the world of islam, and when i learned about christianity i thought "thats pretty weird" some people say that christianity and islam are both pretty much based around the same ideas, but they're completely wrong. Its like, if you have a favorite video game, then it gets replaced by some other video game you're not used to, its just strange and doesnt make sense. in islam there is only one god, he doesnt give birth, he was never birthed, he creates. in christianinty, the god is way lenient and has given birth to christ, who walks the earth. Allah does not walk the earth, but is everywhere all the time, not much different from christianity there. to sum it all up, im used to islam, and when i learned about christianity, i thought it was dumb. i guess thats just the way most humans work, foreign=bad.








[/quote]

Iam a muslim, I don't think Christianity is dumb at all. What I have found is that Christians have idols...which is not accepted in Islam. The Qur'an refers to the Book(bible) often as well as the Torah.

I guess I better not say more, this could turn into a war over religion...
[/quote]
Not all Christians use idolatry. I was a Catholic, and as I grew, I have seen a lot of these statues and images in church buildings, and so this also made me think twice. I still consider myself a Christian, a believer in CHRIST but I don't worship idols and statues.

Being a Christian, to me is someone who beleives and has faith in CHRIST as the Savior. That is the true meaning of a Christian.

Also as a Christian, I think it is important not to discriminate other Religions because in the END, we will all be judged by the ONE TRUE GOD.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

colt said:


> > ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.
> 
> 
> Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


I guess its just because i grew up in the world of islam, and when i learned about christianity i thought "thats pretty weird" some people say that christianity and islam are both pretty much based around the same ideas, but they're completely wrong. Its like, if you have a favorite video game, then it gets replaced by some other video game you're not used to, its just strange and doesnt make sense. in islam there is only one god, he doesnt give birth, he was never birthed, he creates. in christianinty, the god is way lenient and has given birth to christ, who walks the earth. Allah does not walk the earth, but is everywhere all the time, not much different from christianity there. to sum it all up, im used to islam, and when i learned about christianity, i thought it was dumb. i guess thats just the way most humans work, foreign=bad.








[/quote]

Iam a muslim, I don't think Christianity is dumb at all. What I have found is that Christians have idols...which is not accepted in Islam. The Qur'an refers to the Book(bible) often as well as the Torah.

I guess I better not say more, this could turn into a war over religion...
[/quote]








Idols? Hmmm, you may want to rethink what your saying here. 
Christians dont worship idols. I could sit here and say islams worship idols (allah) because he isnt "God". But then again I wont go there cause im not looking to start some jihad.

if by idols you are refering to catholic saints? Im not to sure I would consider that idol worship, just diffrent views on talking to God. Who knows tho. It seems every religion has to be the only right one. One of the reason I think ALL organized religion is bullshit. Beleive what you want as long as you dont tell me how to believe


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## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

I would say that 'idols' is the wrong term to use. I'm a Presbyterian and I view what we look to as symbols to remind us of certian aspects of the religion.

the Icthus and Cross and Trinity are all just different symbols we dont' worship them.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

In the end, both christians and muslims (and some other forms of religions included) lose.


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## Allteeth (Sep 2, 2005)

Xenon said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Jenkins said:


> > ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.
> 
> 
> Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


I guess its just because i grew up in the world of islam, and when i learned about christianity i thought "thats pretty weird" some people say that christianity and islam are both pretty much based around the same ideas, but they're completely wrong. Its like, if you have a favorite video game, then it gets replaced by some other video game you're not used to, its just strange and doesnt make sense. in islam there is only one god, he doesnt give birth, he was never birthed, he creates. in christianinty, the god is way lenient and has given birth to christ, who walks the earth. Allah does not walk the earth, but is everywhere all the time, not much different from christianity there. to sum it all up, im used to islam, and when i learned about christianity, i thought it was dumb. i guess thats just the way most humans work, foreign=bad.








[/quote]

There is only 1 God in Christianity. I would love to talk to you personally to share some key points about Christianity that I think you may have confused.

No problem, if you ever want to chat about it sometime.. Shoot me a PM.


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## colt (Apr 16, 2006)

Ex0dus said:


> Idols? Hmmm, you may want to rethink what your saying here.
> Christians dont worship idols. I could sit here and say islams worship idols (allah) because he isnt "God". But then again I wont go there cause im not looking to start some jihad.
> 
> if by idols you are refering to catholic saints? Im not to sure I would consider that idol worship, just diffrent views on talking to God. Who knows tho. It seems every religion has to be the only right one. One of the reason I think ALL organized religion is bullshit. Beleive what you want as long as you dont tell me how to believe


I meant that as in Jesus, Christians believe he is the son of God...

Allah means God...


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

[/quote]

There is only 1 God in Christianity. I would love to talk to you personally to share some key points about Christianity that I think you may have confused.

[/quote]

I dunno Dippy, depends on who ya talk to, and when (in the history of christianity). From a historical standpoint Jesus and his boys {actauly just his boys- Jesus wasn't really a christain- he was a practicing Jew} worshipped "The One True God" Yahweh, Jehovah, Rascus or whatever ya feel like calling him. After chrisitainity began to be helleniozed, Jesus and Rascus, Yahweh, Jehovah- whatever (from here on out we'll go with Rascus), began to be looked at as being on even ground- that Jesus had been God incarnate while here on earth.

Eventauly of course it became a part of the official dogma of the church that Jesus was in fact God, which is one of many reasons yer early jews and muslims got their panties in knots over the christain faith, claiming that a man was god was/is considered blashmeny ya know. Anyways when that happened Christainity kinda gave up on truely being a monotheistic religion. The actual breaking point came when the Holy Dood got thrown into the mix with Jesus and Rascus a century or two or three later and Christianity adopted the same type of trinitarian religion that had been practiced by pagens for a couple thousands yrs already- with 3 gods to now be worshipped. Now there's a bit of a movement to have Mary deitified and have her be part god as well- so u'd be up to 4 gods...

i wonder if thats what he was talking about??


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## jagoot (Apr 13, 2006)

Ex0dus said:


> > ps: in case you're wondering, im islamic, which (to me) makes more sense than christianity.
> 
> 
> Do you mind explaining this to us? -thanks


I guess its just because i grew up in the world of islam, and when i learned about christianity i thought "thats pretty weird" some people say that christianity and islam are both pretty much based around the same ideas, but they're completely wrong. Its like, if you have a favorite video game, then it gets replaced by some other video game you're not used to, its just strange and doesnt make sense. in islam there is only one god, he doesnt give birth, he was never birthed, he creates. in christianinty, the god is way lenient and has given birth to christ, who walks the earth. Allah does not walk the earth, but is everywhere all the time, not much different from christianity there. to sum it all up, im used to islam, and when i learned about christianity, i thought it was dumb. i guess thats just the way most humans work, foreign=bad.








[/quote]

Iam a muslim, I don't think Christianity is dumb at all. What I have found is that Christians have idols...which is not accepted in Islam. The Qur'an refers to the Book(bible) often as well as the Torah.

I guess I better not say more, this could turn into a war over religion...
[/quote]








Idols? Hmmm, you may want to rethink what your saying here. 
Christians dont worship idols. I could sit here and say islams worship idols (allah) because he isnt "God". But then again I wont go there cause im not looking to start some jihad.

if by idols you are refering to catholic saints? Im not to sure I would consider that idol worship, just diffrent views on talking to God. Who knows tho. It seems every religion has to be the only right one. One of the reason I think ALL organized religion is bullshit. Beleive what you want as long as you dont tell me how to believe
[/quote] i dont know what you mean by muslims worshipping idols which iz allah hommie you might not know enough about islam and to let you christains and muslims belive in on one god but yall think that jesus is godz son but muslims dont. they think that jesus godz prophet not son and islam and christianty have a lot in commom...


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

There is only 1 God in Christianity. I would love to talk to you personally to share some key points about Christianity that I think you may have confused.

[/quote]

I dunno Dippy, depends on who ya talk to, and when (in the history of christianity). From a historical standpoint Jesus and his boys {actauly just his boys- Jesus wasn't really a christain- he was a practicing Jew} worshipped "The One True God" Yahweh, Jehovah, Rascus or whatever ya feel like calling him. After chrisitainity began to be helleniozed, Jesus and Rascus, Yahweh, Jehovah- whatever (from here on out we'll go with Rascus), began to be looked at as being on even ground- that Jesus had been God incarnate while here on earth.

Eventauly of course it became a part of the official dogma of the church that Jesus was in fact God, which is one of many reasons yer early jews and muslims got their panties in knots over the christain faith, claiming that a man was god was/is considered blashmeny ya know. Anyways when that happened Christainity kinda gave up on truely being a monotheistic religion. The actual breaking point came when the Holy Dood got thrown into the mix with Jesus and Rascus a century or two or three later and Christianity adopted the same type of trinitarian religion that had been practiced by pagens for a couple thousands yrs already- with 3 gods to now be worshipped. Now there's a bit of a movement to have Mary deitified and have her be part god as well- so u'd be up to 4 gods...

i wonder if thats what he was talking about??
[/quote]

Well, Christians believe in one God.

We can't fully understand the trinity of God as revealed in scripture, but I'll try to give it a decent shot at describing it.. although not fully correct..

We could possibly both agree that you, Oheye8one2, have a body(1), a spirit(2), and a soul(3), yet you are one. 
You do not have 3 heads, or 3 faces, but your body, spirit, and soul makes up the 1 you. Without your soul, you are not whole anymore..

This is the only way I can *try and attempt to describe* how the trinity of God has been revealed. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit is not 3 Gods to any Christian. They make up the one true God.
This is very hard to describe to people.. I'm not fully qualified to describe it... where is PastorJeff when ya need him

LOL J/K PJ


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

[/quote] i dont know what you mean by muslims worshipping idols which iz allah hommie you might not know enough about islam and to let you christains and muslims belive in on one god but yall think that jesus is godz son but muslims dont. they think that jesus godz prophet not son and islam and christianty have a lot in commom...
[/quote]

Funny thing about godship and allah and all that hubbub.. The word God is basicaly just a title- like President, if a dood in the U.S. mentions the Prez being a moron he's talking about Bush- if some dood down mexico way says the Prez is an idiot he's talking about Fox.. an easy way to some up what god is, is something/someone that is worshiped or that which is given the primary importance in one's life- To Wit- if your carreer is the most important thing in ur life- essentaily that is ur god- if ur a dood and getting laid is the most important thing in ur life then yer penis is ur god..

some people worship charecters out of books- torah= The Lord, Rascus, Yahweh, ect.. Bible- Rascus- or Rascus-Jesus-Holy Dood or the Koran- Allah.

sometimes peeps get confused though in how they think of the term god., allah. Allah is the arabiac word for "God".

so if ur a christian worshipping Rascus/Jesus & the Holy Dood and you think of him as "God" and then went into an country where arabaic was used and u stopped using english altogether- even thinking in english then when u though of "God" u'd be saying or thinking the word "allah"

on that note too- if the guy worshipping his penis was put into the same situation and moved into an arabaic land every time he whipped out his johnson to take a leak he'd be looking right at "allah", his god.

hope that helps..


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Hey Dippy i know what yer saying-

my comments didnt intend to reflect on what i beleived/ didnt understand so much as comment that historically over the past 2,000 yrs the christain "God" has been veiwed as just a single entity, to two, three and sometimes now even four people. In the eyes of other religions, specifically (islam and judiasm) this could be easily looked upon as worshipping more than just one God- as they dont buy into "all in one theory".


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Oheye8one2 said:


> Hey Dippy i know what yer saying-
> 
> my comments didnt intend to reflect on what i beleived/ didnt understand so much as comment that historically over the past 2,000 yrs the christain "God" has been veiwed as just a single entity, to two, three and sometimes now even four people. In the eyes of other religions, specifically (islam and judiasm) this could be easily looked upon as worshipping more than just one God- as they dont buy into "all in one theory".


Ya, Christianity seems to get attacked on all fronts, and the Trinity is one of them.

The age old teaching is that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit makes one God. There never has been any arguments in Christianity on that one.

There have been others outside of the faith that make that assumption, but they are just that.... outside the faith


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

a wise man once said..



> Like smoking opium, Christianity is a flight from reality.


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

what do ya'll christians believe in this is a true story. one time their was a muslim king and a christian who tried to convert him, the king listens patiently that is until his servent whisperred something in his ear. the christian said why are u crying , he replied i just heard that the angel gabriel died. then the christian replied angels cant die, than the king said how can gods son die?


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## MLK (Jun 30, 2005)

religion can be good, but its bad as well. if you compare all the lives that religion has made better and saved, compared to all the people that have gone to war and died because of it, it's not a good thing.

religion was used as a tool to control people, not so much in the modern era, but a recent example of how religion manipulates people and politics is the re-election of bush.

religion was used as a pass for many deplorable acts. people commited genocide with religion as an excuse many times in the past.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Anyone else curious about all the new member activity here?

Interesting....

Anyhow, my opinion is that religion is very personal and that organized religion (by its nature) makes for difficult conflicts.

Nothing wrong with discussion. I will agree that the forcing of a religion on someone is a very very wrong thing. Missionaries have done great things all over the world (this is a necessary disclaimer) but they have also driven the beautiful variety of religions in their direction (with some amount of coercion and force). But I digress (as usual :rasp: )



> religion was used as a tool to control people, _not so much in the modern era_


Um, your points are excellent but you shouldn't have stopped at the modern era. The middle east problems still seem to involve Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Not to mention how much you'll be judged by the hoards of bible thumpers in this country (especially the south!!!).


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## stevepedersen (Mar 13, 2006)

:nod:


Ex0dus said:


>


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> Not to mention how much you'll be judged by the hoards of bible thumpers in this country (especially the south!!!).


Agreed-That isn't right.. Not at all. Christians are not anyones judge--There is but one Judge. 
I am sad that it comes off as that. People take me like that at times.. But that simply is not my heart. -That has to be one of the biggest turn offs there is to the faith. 
I'd say a good amount of Christians get misunderstood at many times, and another good amount mean it..unfortunately

I'm just glad that the Lord has touched my life. Every day that goes past makes me realize more and more what a decrepid wretch that I truly am. 
I long for true righeousness and holiness that evades me.. I long to operate out of true love, kindness, consideration, selflessness, and patience.. But it slips away from me like a cool night breeze.

I am a fallen man like anyone else. All I do is make mistakes, and try to learn from them so I don't continually make the same ones, although it takes time for even that to sink in... Knowing that I am unholy and putrid has helped me so much in humility, and thankfulness.

But I am glad that the pure, holy, Lord has made a way for someone like me to be able to come before Him, in all my imperfections.
He has done many miracles in my life, after so many years of me shaking my fist at Him.
There is no shadow of a doubt in my mind that He loves me unconditionally. I will praise Him all the days of my life.

Sorry for the rant..


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## thfryder19 (Mar 23, 2006)

jesus was a jew


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > Not to mention how much you'll be judged by the hoards of bible thumpers in this country (especially the south!!!).
> 
> 
> Agreed-That isn't right.. Not at all. Christians are not anyones judge--There is but one Judge.
> ...


Not a rant, a well thought out response! There are 'bad' Christians that tarnish the name of the religion to be sure but there are 'good' Christians that do there best to live like Jesus (which seems like the point, but (again) organized religion..... )


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

^^Thanks..
I have been responsible for misrepresenting the faith, like almost every Christian has at one point or another in their lives.. we are fallen humans.. that is for sure!

I'm sick in my heart over my personal bad witnesses for Christ..This is what is hopefully/absolutely going to lead me into a deeper relationship to/with Him.

I don't think the organized Church is fully responsible.. it is this fallen flesh tent that we carry around with us







-does that make any sence? Hop so, but I'm thinking not lol


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> ^^Thanks..
> I have been responsible for misrepresenting the faith, like almost every Christian has at one point or another in their lives.. we are fallen humans.. that is for sure!
> 
> I'm sick in my heart over my personal bad witnesses for Christ..This is what is hopefully/absolutely going to lead me into a deeper relationship to/with Him.
> ...


 isn't that one of the reasons to be organized though? anytime a group of peeps come together under the name of jesus shouldn't they as a whole be examined to see wether or not they've truely followed in the steps of jesus and the early fathers- who after having been instructed personally by jesus to establish his church provided the precidents and rules christinas should follow?

look back at the nation of isreal- when most of them complained about the canaanites being too powerfull the hole nation had to spend 40 years hiking..

when most of the jew's gave way to pagen religion all the nation felt gods wrath when Babylon came and whooped em good- Jerimiah and Daniel were both good men who had to endure the entire nations punishment.

Past example's show that when peeps claim to be serving Ol Rascus and some don't and the other's as a whole allow it, then Rascus opens a can of whoop ass and goes to town. Over all yer Bible presents God as a fair dood, very strict, but willing to be mercifull and forgiving when the parties in question themselves are willing to admit they've made mistakes and turn around from that path and do junk Rascus's way.

At the same time though the bible is full of example's of those that either turn a blind eye to what God consider's wrong or outright condone the wrongdoing- and thus put themselves against God.
The early church as established by the apostles felt that while individuals could make mistakes that it was up to the church to help them see the gravity of their mistakes, to help them to come to repentence and regain their spiritual well being. If a person rejected the assistence of the church- the church then in turn rejected them as being part of their brotherhood. There was a fourfold reason for this (1) it kept the church itself holy- free of accusation by non members (2) helped those remaining in the church to see how serious wrongdoing was (3) it prevented the thinking of the unrepentent one, and their attitudes to infect the minds of others in the church (4) It was hoped that such action would lead the peep in question to come to realize just how big a mistake they had made and make them want to repent- the New Testement books of 1 and 2 Corinthians deal with such a person and show that the course the church took had favorable results.

In todays world most "church's" have long since rejected the example of the early church followers and instead of condeming that which the bible says is wrong, in doing so they have either turned a blind eye to or in many cases embraced what the bible describes as wickeness ( homosexual ministers for example). Again in the bible- not taking a stand against such things was to actauly be veiwed as becoming a sharer in the sin. With that in mind, when a church claims to be represenitive of God and yet permits - even promotes that which the bible claims god opposes the blame rests squarley on the shoulders of that church.

According to christain teaching, it was this sort of thing- and culminating in the murder of Jesus that caused God to reject Isreal and choose a new people- realizing that there's 2 billion people who claim to be christain and Gods people today and looking at the type of world they've helped to create i wouldnt be surprised if ol Rascus wasn't about to open up another can of whoop ass.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Oheye8one2 said:


> ^^Thanks..
> I have been responsible for misrepresenting the faith, like almost every Christian has at one point or another in their lives.. we are fallen humans.. that is for sure!
> 
> I'm sick in my heart over my personal bad witnesses for Christ..This is what is hopefully/absolutely going to lead me into a deeper relationship to/with Him.
> ...


 isn't that one of the reasons to be organized though? anytime a group of peeps come together under the name of jesus *shouldn't they as a whole be examined to see wether or not they've truely followed in the steps of jesus and the early fathers- who after having been instructed personally by jesus to establish his church provided the precidents and rules christinas should follow?*

look back at the nation of isreal- when most of them complained about the canaanites being too powerfull the hole nation had to spend 40 years hiking..

when *most of the jew's gave way to pagen religion all the nation felt gods wrath * when Babylon came and whooped em good- Jerimiah and Daniel were both good men who had to endure the entire nations punishment.

Past example's show that when peeps claim to be serving Ol Rascus and some don't and the other's as a whole allow it, then Rascus opens a can of whoop ass and goes to town. Over all yer Bible presents God as a fair dood, very strict, but *willing to be mercifull and forgiving when the parties in question themselves are willing to admit they've made mistakes and turn around from that path* and do junk Rascus's way.

At the same time though the bible is full of example's of those that either turn a blind eye to what God consider's wrong or outright condone the wrongdoing- and thus put themselves against God.
The early church as established by the apostles felt that while individuals could make mistakes that *it was up to the church to help them see the gravity of their mistakes, to help them to come to repentence and regain their spiritual well being. If a person rejected the assistence of the church- the church then in turn rejected them as being part of their brotherhood. There was a fourfold reason for this (1) it kept the church itself holy- free of accusation by non members (2) helped those remaining in the church to see how serious wrongdoing was (3) it prevented the thinking of the unrepentent one, and their attitudes to infect the minds of others in the church (4) It was hoped that such action would lead the peep in question to come to realize just how big a mistake they had made and make them want to repent-* the New Testement books of 1 and 2 Corinthians deal with such a person and show that the course the church took had favorable results.

*In todays world most "church's" have long since rejected the example of the early church followers and instead of condeming that which the bible says is wrong, in doing so they have either turned a blind eye to or in many cases embraced what the bible describes as wickeness* ( homosexual ministers for example). Again in the bible- not taking a stand against such things was to actauly be veiwed as becoming a sharer in the sin. With that in mind, when a church claims to be represenitive of God and yet permits - even promotes that which the bible claims god opposes the blame rests squarley on the shoulders of that church.

According to christain teaching, it was this sort of thing- and culminating in the murder of Jesus that caused God to reject Isreal and choose a new people- realizing that there's 2 billion people who claim to be christain and Gods people today and looking at the type of world they've helped to create i wouldnt be surprised if ol Rascus wasn't about to open up another can of whoop ass.
[/quote]
you hit the nail on the head with the first comment.. YES! people should be examining themselves,(first and foremost) and be observed by others in the body of Christ, to see if they are walking in faith!
But it simply does not happen that often! The faith is simple really..(doesn't seem that way sometimes, does it) Accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and walk by His Spirit of love, and grace which He has given you-- in all you do
There is no perfect Church, tho, because people themselves are not perfect. There are the imperfect people who are either not bold enough to call a spade a spade, or imperfect people who don't care, and the imperfect people that don't want to hurt anyones feelings.. the list goes on and on.. It all hurts the Church. I am one of those who are imperfect..

Then the age old misinterpretation of scripture, that gets molded into Church dogma.

We are all to blame on _all_ of this.. Me too!! if i didnt say that, i would be a complete hypocrite.

But even though you have an overtone that could be viewed as 'non-reverential' in your post by the way you address God, overall it is very good. I agree with you except on that point. You seem to have given the Bible a good reading, awesome


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > Not to mention how much you'll be judged by the hoards of bible thumpers in this country (especially the south!!!).
> 
> 
> Agreed-That isn't right.. Not at all. Christians are not anyones judge--There is but one Judge.
> ...


your just human like the rest of us, we are animals and to expect to be "perfect" is unrealistic the best you can do is to try to be a good person lifeis complicated though and does not allow you to always be a better man..


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> ...where is PastorJeff when ya need him
> 
> LOL J/K PJ












I'm here...I am just sitting back enjoying this thread! Go get'em Dippy!

This sushi dude has done nothing but post garbage on P-Fury. Take a look at his post history and what he has typed...garbage.









Ya know what I thought was the best part...



> Why do i wanna live in a dried mud brick building for the rest of my life?


The word is abode...which means dwelling place or home. Not ADOBE which means mud brick!

If you are going to lay out an argument for the reasons that Christianity, Islam, Judism, etc is all a bunch of lies...confusing abode and adobe is not the hook to hang your hat on.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

God made everything... period.


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

** you hit the nail on the head with the first comment.. YES! people should be examining themselves,(first and foremost) and be observed by others in the body of Christ, to see if they are walking in faith!
But it simply does not happen that often! The faith is simple really..(doesn't seem that way sometimes, does it) Accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and walk by His Spirit of love, and grace which He has given you-- in all you do
There is no perfect Church, tho, because people themselves are not perfect. There are the imperfect people who are either not bold enough to call a spade a spade, or imperfect people who don't care, and the imperfect people that don't want to hurt anyones feelings.. the list goes on and on.. It all hurts the Church. I am one of those who are imperfect..
**

Out of curiosity then, after seeing how Rascus dealt with similer situations in the past with the jews who allowed or shared in wrongdoing, u really think that he's gonna tolerate it today? and if so- WHY?


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

I am a Christian because I believe in the Bible. I see all these assumptions about Christians and the Bible. So far, there has been so much questions and beliefs on this topic that I do not know where to begin. But please, go on and I will be glad to answer the rest


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

Fido said:


> God made everything... period.


can you prove this theory?








i just cant egt over how people except answers given to them because its easier that way, why cant you figure sh!t out on your own? is that what you were brought up to believ god made everything? thats pretty vague, can he make me some stuff 2?
so this life, this world, what is it a puppet show hes putting on for his friends?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

joey said:


> God made everything... period.


can you prove this theory?








i just cant egt over how people except answers given to them because its easier that way, why cant you figure sh!t out on your own? is that what you were brought up to believ god made everything? thats pretty vague, can he make me some stuff 2?
so this life, this world, what is it a puppet show hes putting on for his friends?








[/quote]

god didnt make the interweb, al gore did..


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

jeddy hao said:


> I am a Christian because I believe in the Bible. I see all these assumptions about Christians and the Bible. So far, there has been so much questions and beliefs on this topic that I do not know where to begin. But please, go on and I will be glad to answer the rest


 Acts 17:2,3 and Acts 18:28- "And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead: and that this Jesus, whom I preach to you is the Christ.... For he Mightely convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ."

This ought to be fun- Its a given historically that a jewish fella named Jesus lived and died early in the first Century. There is both valid historical documents about him and his family in existence, i'll accept them as proof he lived.

Joshephus and other's even allowed that he was a "miricule worker". {of course Jo even went on to say he was indeed the "messiah"} ya know what, the christian movement exploded onto the scene- especialy in Jeruslem after this Jesus passed away- for several hundred years after his death there was almost no deniel of the claims of his working miricules by those who opposed the christians, I'm thinking like this- say i was a 10 yr old kid in Jerusalem with my dad on buisness- we're from Bethany a small town right outside of Jerusalem - And lo and behold there's Peter talking about how Jesus was the messiah and this, that the other thing, and as proof he mentions that just before Jesus was exucuted he'd even brought a man back to life- nowthat get's my attention and i yell out- Who?? When?? Where??

Peter remarks that Jesus while in Bethany (my town) a yr before healed his buddy Lazuras, after he'd been dead 3 days.

Ok once more- thats my town, there's just one Lazuras in town and i never heard of him being dead a yr ago- certainly not having been brought back to life- wouldnt i have heard about that?

Point is- the things that were claimed Jesus did where too extradinairy and said to have been done with way to many present that if the claims were fake it wooda been too easy to prove his apostles as phonies- so i'll allow that those even happend. ..

of course the bible claims that even before Jesus did so other people brought peeps back to life- so that in no way of itself proved he was the "Messiah" or "Christ"

Anyways, if Paul could do it, perhaps you can too- prove to me from the scriptures that this Jesus fella was the messiah- i'm thinking if ya beleive it, ya gotta have proof. The verses in Acts i quaoted said Paul did it from the scriptures- in that time it wooda been just the Old Testement. Can you take whats written in the four gospels and use that to prove that what the "scriptures" say about the messiah was fullfilled in the man Jesus?


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> God made everything... period.


can you prove this theory?








i just cant egt over how people except answers given to them because its easier that way, why cant you figure sh!t out on your own? is that what you were brought up to believ god made everything? thats pretty vague, can he make me some stuff 2?
so this life, this world, what is it a puppet show hes putting on for his friends?








[/quote]

_*god didnt make the interweb, al gore did..*_
[/quote]


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Oheye8one2 said:


> ** you hit the nail on the head with the first comment.. YES! people should be examining themselves,(first and foremost) and be observed by others in the body of Christ, to see if they are walking in faith!
> But it simply does not happen that often! The faith is simple really..(doesn't seem that way sometimes, does it) Accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and walk by His Spirit of love, and grace which He has given you-- in all you do
> There is no perfect Church, tho, because people themselves are not perfect. There are the imperfect people who are either not bold enough to call a spade a spade, or imperfect people who don't care, and the imperfect people that don't want to hurt anyones feelings.. the list goes on and on.. It all hurts the Church. I am one of those who are imperfect..
> **
> ...


Well, I believe that we are an in a grace period, where God has given *all people * forgiveness of rebellion against our pure, and holy God --through the blood sacrifice of His one and only Son, Jesus Christ. What an awesome gift He has given us. Grace. Mercy. Love.
All you have to do is recognize yourself as a sinner who is in rebellion against God, be _willing to turn _ from your sin, and believe in your heart, and speak with your lips "Jesus is Lord" and He sends His promised Holy Spirit to you to guide and lead you into God's truth. It is the mark of a believer.
Now, the word believe doesn't mean say these words.. it means believe.









Anyway, if you read the word of God, it ends super well for the people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They live with His presence forever in the Kingdom of Heaven!
And it ends very bad for those who have not. In the lake of fire.

So, at the end of God's grace period, He will let these things come to pass. That will be His final Judgement. After the grace of God, comes the Wrath of God.. 
I hope im getting this across right.. 
I feel better now knowing PastorJeff's in the house to correct me if im wrong --thanks my friend


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

Oheye8one2 said:


> I am a Christian because I believe in the Bible. I see all these assumptions about Christians and the Bible. So far, there has been so much questions and beliefs on this topic that I do not know where to begin. But please, go on and I will be glad to answer the rest


 Acts 17:2,3 and Acts 18:28- "And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead: and that this Jesus, whom I preach to you is the Christ.... For he Mightely convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ."

This ought to be fun- Its a given historically that a jewish fella named Jesus lived and died early in the first Century. There is both valid historical documents about him and his family in existence, i'll accept them as proof he lived.

Joshephus and other's even allowed that he was a "miricule worker". {of course Jo even went on to say he was indeed the "messiah"} ya know what, the christian movement exploded onto the scene- especialy in Jeruslem after this Jesus passed away- for several hundred years after his death there was almost no deniel of the claims of his working miricules by those who opposed the christians, I'm thinking like this- say i was a 10 yr old kid in Jerusalem with my dad on buisness- we're from Bethany a small town right outside of Jerusalem - And lo and behold there's Peter talking about how Jesus was the messiah and this, that the other thing, and as proof he mentions that just before Jesus was exucuted he'd even brought a man back to life- nowthat get's my attention and i yell out- Who?? When?? Where??

Peter remarks that Jesus while in Bethany (my town) a yr before healed his buddy Lazuras, after he'd been dead 3 days.

Ok once more- thats my town, there's just one Lazuras in town and i never heard of him being dead a yr ago- certainly not having been brought back to life- wouldnt i have heard about that?

Point is- the things that were claimed Jesus did where too extradinairy and said to have been done with way to many present that if the claims were fake it wooda been too easy to prove his apostles as phonies- so i'll allow that those even happend. ..

of course the bible claims that even before Jesus did so other people brought peeps back to life- so that in no way of itself proved he was the "Messiah" or "Christ"

Anyways, if Paul could do it, perhaps you can too- prove to me from the scriptures that this Jesus fella was the messiah- i'm thinking if ya beleive it, ya gotta have proof. The verses in Acts i quaoted said Paul did it from the scriptures- in that time it wooda been just the Old Testement. Can you take whats written in the four gospels and use that to prove that what the "scriptures" say about the messiah was fullfilled in the man Jesus?









[/quote]

Well, the Bible states so clearly that Jesus is the messiah and that he performed all these miracles. If you look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they are all parallel in their ways except for John which is a special occassion. The question is, Is the Bible accurate?? The answer is Yes and why? The Bible is the most printed out book in the world and it holds the most copies. It also has the most manuscript evidence if you've ever checked them out. If you can accpet him as proof that he lived, then why can't you accept him that he did miracles? the people that carried his name till now, most claimed and said that Jesus performed some miracles or "magic". Even now, some so called miracles are performed. You see many people performing witchcraft and such. This is not so different from the times in the Old Testament. My dad is a pastor and he travels around the world. Believe it or not, he cast a demon from the lady in a foreign country. Even my friend from Haiti has seen so much demonic forces over their that you never see in the U.S. *Can you take whats written in the four gospels and use that to prove that what the "scriptures" say about the messiah was fullfilled in the man Jesus?* After performing all these miracles which isn't magic, because magic can't even cast out demons, why not believe in what Jesus states and his promise?


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

[/quote]

Well, the Bible states so clearly that Jesus is the messiah and that he performed all these miracles. If you look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they are all parallel in their ways except for John which is a special occassion. The question is, Is the Bible accurate?? The answer is Yes and why? The Bible is the most printed out book in the world and it holds the most copies. It also has the most manuscript evidence if you've ever checked them out. If you can accpet him as proof that he lived, then why can't you accept him that he did miracles? the people that carried his name till now, most claimed and said that Jesus performed some miracles or "magic". Even now, some so called miracles are performed. You see many people performing witchcraft and such. This is not so different from the times in the Old Testament. My dad is a pastor and he travels around the world. Believe it or not, he cast a demon from the lady in a foreign country. Even my friend from Haiti has seen so much demonic forces over their that you never see in the U.S. *Can you take whats written in the four gospels and use that to prove that what the "scriptures" say about the messiah was fullfilled in the man Jesus?* After performing all these miracles which isn't magic, because magic can't even cast out demons, why not believe in what Jesus states and his promise?
[/quote]

hey Jeddy,

maybe i didnt make my question clear, first let me restate what i was saying, i'd concur that Jesus lived and did everything the gospels claim he did. the four gospell accounts are not in question here for their historical accurecy. However the 4 accounts do represent a paticuler opionion, that Jesus was indeed the messiah- the gospels were written as a testimony not only about what Jesus said and did- but as evidence of his indeed being the promised Messiah the jews had been looking for.

Paul was able to show people from "the scripture's" that Jesus had in fact been the messiah, he didnt have Matthew through Revelation- and if he had, him saying "well John 3:16 says..." wouldnt have matterd to the jews who veiwed only Genisis through Malachi as "the scriptures"and thus authoritive.

what i wanna know is can any of you who claim to beleive in Jesus substantiate that belief by using the testimony of the gospels saying Jesus did this, and that, and whatever, by comparing it to what the Old Testiment says regarding the Messiah?

Jewish tradition says Moses wrote the beginning books of the bible some 1500 years before Jesus lived on earth, the final books of the Old Testement were finnished about 400 yrs before he lived. Supposedly there are hundreds of referrals to what the messiah would do/be/have happen to him in those "scriptures" written by dozens of men over about 900 yrs.

a number of the posts here suggest i need to be "beleiving" in Jesus, and accept him- yet Paul used the O.T. to prove to people that Jesus was the dood they needed to be beleivining and accepting. Of one group of people who'd heard Paul's message the book of Acts says " These were more noble minded than those in thesalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, wether those things were so"- Acts 17:11

i'm merely asking to be shown those proofs from the Jewish scriptures (the old testement) that prove Jesus is the messiah. That is all, nothing else.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2006)

You know, sometimes I ask myself...What Would Jesus Brew? (click me)


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

Well, the Bible states so clearly that Jesus is the messiah and that he performed all these miracles. If you look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they are all parallel in their ways except for John which is a special occassion. The question is, Is the Bible accurate?? The answer is Yes and why? The Bible is the most printed out book in the world and it holds the most copies. It also has the most manuscript evidence if you've ever checked them out. If you can accpet him as proof that he lived, then why can't you accept him that he did miracles? the people that carried his name till now, most claimed and said that Jesus performed some miracles or "magic". Even now, some so called miracles are performed. You see many people performing witchcraft and such. This is not so different from the times in the Old Testament. My dad is a pastor and he travels around the world. Believe it or not, he cast a demon from the lady in a foreign country. Even my friend from Haiti has seen so much demonic forces over their that you never see in the U.S. *Can you take whats written in the four gospels and use that to prove that what the "scriptures" say about the messiah was fullfilled in the man Jesus?* After performing all these miracles which isn't magic, because magic can't even cast out demons, why not believe in what Jesus states and his promise?
[/quote]

hey Jeddy,

maybe i didnt make my question clear, first let me restate what i was saying, i'd concur that Jesus lived and did everything the gospels claim he did. the four gospell accounts are not in question here for their historical accurecy. However the 4 accounts do represent a paticuler opionion, that Jesus was indeed the messiah- the gospels were written as a testimony not only about what Jesus said and did- but as evidence of his indeed being the promised Messiah the jews had been looking for.

Paul was able to show people from "the scripture's" that Jesus had in fact been the messiah, he didnt have Matthew through Revelation- and if he had, him saying "well John 3:16 says..." wouldnt have matterd to the jews who veiwed only Genisis through Malachi as "the scriptures"and thus authoritive.

what i wanna know is can any of you who claim to beleive in Jesus substantiate that belief by using the testimony of the gospels saying Jesus did this, and that, and whatever, by comparing it to what the Old Testiment says regarding the Messiah?

Jewish tradition says Moses wrote the beginning books of the bible some 1500 years before Jesus lived on earth, the final books of the Old Testement were finnished about 400 yrs before he lived. Supposedly there are hundreds of referrals to what the messiah would do/be/have happen to him in those "scriptures" written by dozens of men over about 900 yrs.

a number of the posts here suggest i need to be "beleiving" in Jesus, and accept him- yet Paul used the O.T. to prove to people that Jesus was the dood they needed to be beleivining and accepting. Of one group of people who'd heard Paul's message the book of Acts says " These were more noble minded than those in thesalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, wether those things were so"- Acts 17:11

i'm merely asking to be shown those proofs from the Jewish scriptures (the old testement) that prove Jesus is the messiah. That is all, nothing else.








[/quote]

I have a question for you. Why isn't the New Testament enough proof?? Yes the Old Testament says that there is a coming Messiah and it doesn't state Jesus specifically. But when you look at the parallelism between the Old and New Testament, there are hints. Isaiah 7:14 says, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." This is resembling the birth of Jesus from the virgin mary. Another example would be Micah 4:2 which says, "Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." These are only a few examples that Jesus was the messiah indeed. There are many more in the Old Testament stating specifically what and where it will happen. Jesus fits into that category.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

joey said:


> God made everything... period.


can you prove this theory?








i just cant egt over how people except answers given to them because its easier that way, why cant you figure sh!t out on your own? is that what you were brought up to believ god made everything? thats pretty vague, can he make me some stuff 2?
so this life, this world, what is it a puppet show hes putting on for his friends?








[/quote]

Dont question thy lord!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.


And here I was scrolling down to say that he's an idiot because you don't see christians on this forum bashing other people like intolerant dillholes and you ruined it Mike. Shitty

Well then, how about;

Christians and Atheists deserve each other. Ah well








[/quote]
Well, you gotta forgive him, because he obviously does not know what he is saying.
That post very clearly illustrates that religious people come in all shapes and colors: from intelligent, objective and openminded believers like PastorJeff on one side, to the radicals and fundamentalists on the extreme opposite (with Mike being somewhere to the right of the middle,going by that fantastic remark).
Pity really that intolerant and narrowminded remarks like the one quoted are amongst the things that can be held responsible for the very bad name religion and believers in the eyes of many have: and it's particularly sad that those that actually do deserve respect for their faith and opinions are also paying the price for that: it just takes one rotten apple to f*ck up an entire batch









Hey Fido, instead of posting hollow one-liners that mean jack sh*t, how about you actually back up what you are saying. Prove us that *your* Lord (*not* mine!) made everything - not by using things man-made, like Bible quotes, but with scientific empirical evidence.
And please don't ridicule yourself by threatening me (or other non-believers for that matter) that I will go to or burn in hell, or similar things as a means of punishment for my atheistic mindset - to me hell is as much a literary fabrication of the human mind as God is: in other words irrelevant.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

This thread is yet another example of what happens when a discussion regarding Christianity comes up. There is always going to be a division between those who "believe" and those who don't. The bible says that this division will always be.

There are two main problems when it comes to debating Christianity between one who believes and one who does not. It can be summed up in one word....PROVE. It just simply cannot be done. It is impossible to do no matter what anyone may say.

For example...Dannyboy and I have had numerous conversation regarding religion and the process in finding an enlightenend path (Danny...I am almost done with the book about McCandless...very interesting read!). In this process DannyBoy and I can continue to have a wonderful, thought provoking conversation UNTIL we get to the point in the discussion where we talk about WHO Jesus Christ is...then the paths part ways.

(I am going to take a liberty to sum DannyBoy up...correct me if I am wrong Danny) Danny believes in Jesus, the man, the leader, the one who did wonderful things. But DannyBoy does not believe that he is the Son of God, the Way, the Truth, and the Life...and that nobody can get to God without going through him (meaning Jesus - That verse is found in John 14:6 in case you thought it sounded familiar). Then it comes to the dividing word "Well...prove it to me."

The problem is, I can't. There is no way that I can prove the divine nature of a human man. There is no way for me to prove that the world was created in the way the Bible says it was. There is no way that I can prove that Jesus has risen from the dead. There is no way I can prove any of that.

I can prove that crucifixion was real, that tombs were constructed and sealed the way the Bible says. I can prove through written text other than the bible that Jesus was known to walk the earth. I can prove through written text other than the bible that Jesus really ticked of the government and was killed for it.

When we get to a point in the discussion where we have to try and prove faith, we get into dangerous divisive ground. And that is what I try to avoid. What good does it do me to push so hard on DannyBoy that he ends up hating my guts?

The second problem we have is what is called "Circular Logic". This comes into play when we try to prove the bible by using the bible..."The bible is true because the bible says that it is true" This is totally acceptable when you are talking between two believers. Dippy and I would have no problem discussing the bible and using the foundation that the bible is true because it says it is true...we both already believe that.

But when you are talking to someone that does not believe the same way, they do not view scripture and an authority to be trusted as fact and truth. Then you get back to the whole "Prove it" discussion and it cannot be proven.

With that in mind...there are going to be things that those who are believers will not be able to prove...that is why it is called faith. But remember this...it takes just as much faith to not believe in God as it does to believe that he does exsist.

Just as I cannot prove (through logic) that God exsists...Dannyboy (sorry to keep using you Danny...it just goes back to our awesome discussions) cannot prove that he DOESN'T exsist.

And it is a slippery slope from there...

Just more for the discussion!


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

[/quote]

I have a question for you. Why isn't the New Testament enough proof?? Yes the Old Testament says that there is a coming Messiah and it doesn't state Jesus specifically. But when you look at the parallelism between the Old and New Testament, there are hints. Isaiah 7:14 says, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." This is resembling the birth of Jesus from the virgin mary. Another example would be Micah 4:2 which says, "Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." These are only a few examples that Jesus was the messiah indeed. There are many more in the Old Testament stating specifically what and where it will happen. Jesus fits into that category.
[/quote]

Well think of the Bible being like a house- the O.T would be the foundation and the N.T. would be the actaul structure- without the foundation the structure would be in trouble- If in fact Jesus is the Messiah.

when i first asked for some evidence of Jesus being the messiah the answer went along the lines of the bible is the best seller ever, we still have anceint manuscripts ect..

thats really not convincing evidence- The Da Vinci Code is one of the best selling book on the market today- and we could probably obtain the writer of that book's first manuscript- however that does not make it a trustyworthy peice of nonfiction. Those are nothing more than interesting facts- it proves nothing really.

So you ask me "why isn't the New Testement enough proof?" Generally when a person makes a claim- the burden of proof is upon him to prove what he says to be the truth. In this case i've given you beleivers a lot of concesions right from the get go- 
(1) that the O.T. points to a future messiah (and this means i'm even conceding that thus the O.T is actauly the word of God) 
(2) that what the gospel accounts say regarding the life and actions of Jesus are historically accurete.

The reason why the New Testement alone is not proof enuff is that without the O.T. it is reduced to hearsay- your accepting what four guys you've never met wrote down 2,000 years ago regarding a guy they claimed to have supernnatural abilities and a very charesmetic personality. Jeddy say's his father has expelled demons-

should i beleive such a fantastic story as that from some guy i've never met- cuz i read it on the internet- or take that a step further, lets assume that i believed that he did it- lets assume that i was there- and concluded that because he was able to expel this demon that Jeddy's father was the Christ. Again this is hardly suffeciant evidence to make me reach such a conclusion.

Now lets examine the two verses you provided- and create a little scenario- say i am a Jew whose known Mary since she was a tiny child- we're good freinds and we remain well accainteed for the rest of our lives- she's a virtuous young woman in a society famous for its moral charecter- then one day i find out she's still unmarried and pregent- AND SHE CLAIMS TO STILL BE A VIRGIN!!

ok being a good Jew- and knowing Mary, i'd be familer with Isiaih 7:14 and a virgin birth, and i'd hate to think she was lying,,, but c'mon u really gonna believe that? Would u beleive ur sister if she came up pregnet and still claimed to be a virgin?

Although it is one line of evidence- it's one of the most disputable (and disputed) points of evidence- one that if i was that jew in that situation I'd think about if in later years I heard Jesus was doing everything the gospels say he did, and that might sway my opionion as i tried to determine wether or Not Jesus who the messiah (again if i heard Mary claiming to still be a virgin- or heard from others that before she gave birth that she still claimed to be a virgin)

the second verse- micah 4:2- They were several guys claiming to be messiah's around the time of Jesus- how and what did Jesus do that seperates them from himself and fullfilled that prophecy?

again Paul was said to have supplied ample evidence from the Old Testement that Jesus was the Messiah, the Bereans were able to look threw the scritptues and see that what was said about Jesus was in harmony with what the O.T said about the messiah.

Jesus own buddy John gave this advice- "beloved, beleive not every spirit, but try the spirits wether they are not of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. - 1 John 4 :1

I'm just applying the New Testement's own counsel- and looking to see if any of the Believers here can present a compleling argument based on what the O.T. said of Christ and what the Gospels say about Jesus- and thus prove he was the Messiah.


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

I have a question for you. Why isn't the New Testament enough proof?? Yes the Old Testament says that there is a coming Messiah and it doesn't state Jesus specifically. But when you look at the parallelism between the Old and New Testament, there are hints. Isaiah 7:14 says, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." This is resembling the birth of Jesus from the virgin mary. Another example would be Micah 4:2 which says, "Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." These are only a few examples that Jesus was the messiah indeed. There are many more in the Old Testament stating specifically what and where it will happen. Jesus fits into that category.
[/quote]

Well think of the Bible being like a house- the O.T would be the foundation and the N.T. would be the actaul structure- without the foundation the structure would be in trouble- If in fact Jesus is the Messiah.

when i first asked for some evidence of Jesus being the messiah the answer went along the lines of the bible is the best seller ever, we still have anceint manuscripts ect..

thats really not convincing evidence- The Da Vinci Code is one of the best selling book on the market today- and we could probably obtain the writer of that book's first manuscript- however that does not make it a trustyworthy peice of nonfiction. Those are nothing more than interesting facts- it proves nothing really.

So you ask me "why isn't the New Testement enough proof?" Generally when a person makes a claim- the burden of proof is upon him to prove what he says to be the truth. In this case i've given you beleivers a lot of concesions right from the get go- 
(1) that the O.T. points to a future messiah (and this means i'm even conceding that thus the O.T is actauly the word of God) 
(2) that what the gospel accounts say regarding the life and actions of Jesus are historically accurete.

The reason why the New Testement alone is not proof enuff is that without the O.T. it is reduced to hearsay- your accepting what four guys you've never met wrote down 2,000 years ago regarding a guy they claimed to have supernnatural abilities and a very charesmetic personality. Jeddy say's his father has expelled demons-

should i beleive such a fantastic story as that from some guy i've never met- cuz i read it on the internet- or take that a step further, lets assume that i believed that he did it- lets assume that i was there- and concluded that because he was able to expel this demon that Jeddy's father was the Christ. Again this is hardly suffeciant evidence to make me reach such a conclusion.

Now lets examine the two verses you provided- and create a little scenario- say i am a Jew whose known Mary since she was a tiny child- we're good freinds and we remain well accainteed for the rest of our lives- she's a virtuous young woman in a society famous for its moral charecter- then one day i find out she's still unmarried and pregent- AND SHE CLAIMS TO STILL BE A VIRGIN!!

ok being a good Jew- and knowing Mary, i'd be familer with Isiaih 7:14 and a virgin birth, and i'd hate to think she was lying,,, but c'mon u really gonna believe that? Would u beleive ur sister if she came up pregnet and still claimed to be a virgin?

Although it is one line of evidence- it's one of the most disputable (and disputed) points of evidence- one that if i was that jew in that situation I'd think about if in later years I heard Jesus was doing everything the gospels say he did, and that might sway my opionion as i tried to determine wether or Not Jesus who the messiah (again if i heard Mary claiming to still be a virgin- or heard from others that before she gave birth that she still claimed to be a virgin)

the second verse- micah 4:2- They were several guys claiming to be messiah's around the time of Jesus- how and what did Jesus do that seperates them from himself and fullfilled that prophecy?

again Paul was said to have supplied ample evidence from the Old Testement that Jesus was the Messiah, the Bereans were able to look threw the scritptues and see that what was said about Jesus was in harmony with what the O.T said about the messiah.

Jesus own buddy John gave this advice- "beloved, beleive not every spirit, but try the spirits wether they are not of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. - 1 John 4 :1

I'm just applying the New Testement's own counsel- and looking to see if any of the Believers here can present a compleling argument based on what the O.T. said of Christ and what the Gospels say about Jesus- and thus prove he was the Messiah.
[/quote]

First off, you are right in that the O.T. should not be left out. I believe that they should never be seperated and not one should be left out. Both are of importance and one cannot go without the other.

Secondly, the Bible is the most read book in the world. Theres the churches, people who read it to go against it, people that read it in interest, others that read it for historical facts, and etc. I'm also not saying that the manuscripts are foundational facts. They are only of some support. You know the Bible pretty well I assume, and the Bible also says that most of it is by faith as well. There are always going to be questions that can never be answered. Ex: How does the devil look like if you believe that he exists? Have you seen him?

I shouldn't have said that the New Testament is enough because it isn't. The point I was trying to get at is that if the Old Testament is sufficient and if one believes it, then the New Testament should be just as reliable.

You said that if you assumed that my Dad did expel a demon, then it would not be enough? explain. I left out the part where the pastor uses "In the name of Jesus..."

Also, virgin is used when someone has never had sex. You said that you wouldn't trust this if Mary conceives and still claims to be a virgin. What if a girl pregnant that you trust with your life, tells you that she never had sex. Wouldn't you believe her? You would probably assume that it's a test tube baby but it doesn't mean she was lying. Going back to Joseph and Mary. Joseph even wanted to divorce her because he was not sure. Matthew 1:19-20 "Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." Why would Joseph want to divorce his own wife if he slept with her and that was his child? This was a sinful act in those times. He was afraid because it was a miracle. 
You asked if I would believe my sister if she came up and said that. I would if I trusted her enough. What have I got to lose in believing her? It is her own self that will be her downfall. I have different things to worry about then her lifes decisions right?

You said that there were several guys that claimed to be the messiah and what makes Jesus different. None of them that claimed to be messiah could cast out demons. They had followers, but what wisdom and power did they have? Also, the other false prophets had no connections with the Old Testament. 
Micah 5:2 says, But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. " Was not Jesus Born in Bethlehem?

Psalms 78:2-3, "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter hidden things, things from of old-
what we have heard and known, what our fathers have told us." Jesus was the only prophet that spoke in parables.

Isaiah 53:9, "He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth." He indeed died next to criminals.

Lastly, the one we all know so well that he died on the cross. Psalm 22:16, "Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet." None of the others that claimed to be messiah fulfilled the Old Testament promises.


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## frake (Apr 17, 2006)

sushi, you wrote all that? ........... ... ... ...


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> There are two main problems when it comes to debating Christianity between one who believes and one who does not. It can be summed up in one word....PROVE. It just simply cannot be done. It is impossible to do no matter what anyone may say.


Excellent post, PastorJeff


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

View attachment 103614


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Jeddy, now ur sort of making sense here. Providing evidence to back up what you beleive. got any more of this type of proof of Jesus Messiahship??

bump...


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## BUBBA (Sep 4, 2003)

Jesus Loves You


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

BUBBA said:


> Jesus Loves You


ya and he was a jew so lets jew it up people








View attachment 104675


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

joey said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.











my parents are both jewish and cristian or catholic or whatever it is, i think the 2 constrict peoples live and make them stereotype peope as you just did, i could say the same for catholics, and dont even get me started on jews, we all have our differences and thats why we all live here where we are free to believe what we want to








shame on sushi for starting this thread and actually spending about an hour posting that first post.
xenon.......... since i dont really believe in much of anything due to the crappyness of the world, i guess that makes me an athiest, so i just wanna make sure, you think im a [email protected] retard?
or maybe its all of you who actually pray to a god you will never see, and what has he done for you? last i checked he hasnt paid any of my bills








[/quote]

do you go to church and tythe? cuz i know lots of people who have gotten unexpected money in amounts to just cover there bills and they are tythers and givers that go to church and give every week. i mean you cant expect God to help you out when you show no faith towards him.

and for the record i dont think you are a f*cking retard. i think being atheist is a lot smarter than rushing into any religion that could be wrong. i just hope you come to a conclusion in ur search


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Oheye8one2 said:


> Jeddy, now ur sort of making sense here. Providing evidence to back up what you beleive. got any more of this type of proof of Jesus Messiahship??
> 
> bump...


There are 333 prophecys that came to pass about the life of Jesus written in the Old Testament.

These writings of the OT are known to be at least 400 years before His life. It is a wonderful study if you ever check it out.. --Quite amazing, really


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> Your rambling and incoherent post jsut reinforces my opinion that most atheists are f*cking retards.











my parents are both jewish and cristian or catholic or whatever it is, i think the 2 constrict peoples live and make them stereotype peope as you just did, i could say the same for catholics, and dont even get me started on jews, we all have our differences and thats why we all live here where we are free to believe what we want to








shame on sushi for starting this thread and actually spending about an hour posting that first post.
xenon.......... since i dont really believe in much of anything due to the crappyness of the world, i guess that makes me an athiest, so i just wanna make sure, you think im a [email protected] retard?
or maybe its all of you who actually pray to a god you will never see, and what has he done for you? last i checked he hasnt paid any of my bills








[/quote]

do you go to church and tythe? cuz i know lots of people who have gotten unexpected money in amounts to just cover there bills and they are tythers and givers that go to church and give every week. i mean you cant expect God to help you out when you show no faith towards him.

and for the record i dont think you are a f*cking retard. i think being atheist is a lot smarter than rushing into any religion that could be wrong. i just hope you come to a conclusion in ur search
[/quote]
... ill stop searching when i see proof.
so your telling me that people who go to church and give away money, randonly get it back?
i think the word you might be looking for ia karma?
happens to me too, good and bad.
and where is this money coming from when these people get it back?
did it come in an envelope from god? was it postmarked by jesus?
ya im not really sure how much more i shuld say before you all start to hate me and i casue a uhge flame fest, so i thin i might be done on this topic.
one last thing, i would like to say, even though i dont believe... i am open to the thought, i just need proof.
im not putting down anyones beliefs, i just dont agree, but i am wiling to try to believe.
however when siad comments are made by unsiad members directed towards the general direction of an opposite opinion vise-a-vie said topic, and terms disclosed are narrowminded and disrespectful, i dont feel it appropriate.
basicly unsaid members or followers of said religions generally have a one track mind and that is what they have been told and nothing else can be even a legitamite debate or thought for them.
so for those who believe, good for you, but dont try to make those who dont feel shame for having a free mind and not so nieve as you are for your own beliefs (slckr69 these comments are not directed to you at all







)


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Holy "War and Peace" Batman!!! This board covers so many things. It's cool but I just cant read all of that! (from either side!)


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

joey said:


> Jesus Loves You


ya and he was a jew so lets jew it up people








View attachment 104675

[/quote]
here my homie i met on the street, he says anyone who disagrees with him, will get it jinja style (*thats jew-jit-su for those who dont know*) jiggy did you ever train in the art of jew-jit-su?


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

did you just double quote yourself


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

acestro said:


> did you just double quote yourself


sorry unless you qoute my qoute i dont know what your talking about
sorry this thread needs some kind of humour even if its a jew getting all ninjad up


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## Oheye8one2 (Nov 8, 2005)

[/quote]
There are 333 prophecys that came to pass about the life of Jesus written in the Old Testament.

These writings of the OT are known to be at least 400 years before His life. It is a wonderful study if you ever check it out.. --Quite amazing, really
[/quote]
[/quote]
There are 333 prophecys that came to pass about the life of Jesus written in the Old Testament.

These writings of the OT are known to be at least 400 years before His life. It is a wonderful study if you ever check it out.. --Quite amazing, really
[/quote]

Good call.. ur right- there are hundreds of things written about the messiah in the O.T, but just for the fun of it, i will challenge just two of those. One of these you beleivers already brought up

1) Isiaih 7:14- Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

*** of course in Matthew 1:23 we're told that an Angel tell's Mary that this child will be called Immanuel, yet nowhere in the N.T is it recorded that anyone ever did so. An argument could be made that this verse in Matthew was "tossed in" to the story of Jesus not only regarding the name, but even wether Mary was a Virgin, just to simply say that phrophechy was fullfilled.

2) Dan 9:24-27- Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

** when Ol Danny wrote this him and all the other smart Jews were still part of the enslaved Jewish exiles in Babylon and the surrounding area's- in fact in just a few yrs after this was supposed to have been written according to scripture the decree was given for jews to return to their homeland Ezra the whole first chapter speaks of that, later Nehimiah was commisioned to return to Judah and take up there storation work.

No matter which way ya look at it- all that occured over 500 yrs before Jesus popped up on the scene- yes the phrophecy said all those weeks- less than 2 years total THEN the Messiah would appear- If Jesus was truely the Messiah, tell me please how this applied to him?

BTW, Dippy ur right, it is an amazing study









ok good luck explainin these...


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