# Slowly stockpiling the Goods



## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Ok so i decided i want to get into plants, and over the last couple of months ive been stockpiling alota planting goods and i need to know where to get a good fairly reasonably priced C02 kit, id rather get a complete kit because im not good and piecing together stuff, i cant even complete a model aiplane kit without having left over parts... if someone could help me with finding a C02 kit, and money is kinda tight so nothing too over the hill, this planting stuff is starting to get expensive,

my tank is anywhere from 55gal to 65gal, i tried to count by filling with 5 gals at a time but i lost count and said screw it







, 10gal in tank wet dry sump 350gph that can be flooded to water line to reduce the "wet/dry" portion of the filtering to save C02. a Rena XP3 filter. and a 15w UV sterilizer.

ill list what i have so far and any other suggestions of what to get would be appreciated.

2x55W 10000k bulbs
1x28W 6700k bulb
The Ballasts
48lbs of flora base substrate
Kent Botanica Ferts, K, Fe, Micro

btw the bulbs are PC flourescents from Newtek, non actinic

*update 9-18*
I just got all the final things i needed in the mail and im good to go by the end of the next week or so i will be completely planting my tank, just waiting to get rid of my RBP, and then i have to break the tank down and do a few modifications. here are some picks of all the goods i bought, i dont want to think of how much ive spent








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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

There arnt many parts to a co2 system to begin with. 
I dont know what you mean when you say money is tight. If your gonna get a ph controller, expoect to pay $300+ (easily). For my co2 system I paid @ $400


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Yea, im quiting my job so i wont have too much extra money but 300 isnt too bad i looked at the dr foster and smith site and i saw 379 without a co2 tank and thats why i was wondering is there a site that sells the complete kit cheaper because after the tank it would be like $420, and to me thats a hefty amount of money, think it would be alot cheaper to buy everything separate?? like the regulator and controller and all that stuff??


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

You can get a regulator/controller combo on ebay for @ 170 (180 w/ shipping)
5lb co2 tank for @ 75$, plus @ 10$ more to fill it
Depending on which co2 difusser you get it could be 0$+ 
I think if your trying to do it on the cheap you can get it for maybe 180 plus the cost of the tank. 
Without question go to www.gregwatson.com and check into their ferts. Right now im still using flourish iron and comprehensive but that may soon change. 
Its not so much that the co2 setup is expensive, its all the sh*t that you need to have sucess that add up. Lights, ferts, substrate, and the list goes on.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

> Its not so much that the co2 setup is expensive, its all the sh*t that you need to have sucess that add up. Lights, ferts, substrate, and the list goes on.


Your telling me, 3 pc lights and ballasts to match were hella expensive and so was the substrates 4 bags of flora base cost me like $100...lol but im in too deep to not go all the way, you know what i mean i shelled out too much at this point to not get the CO2 and all the other sh!ts


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

JustJoshinYa said:


> > Its not so much that the co2 setup is expensive, its all the sh*t that you need to have sucess that add up. Lights, ferts, substrate, and the list goes on.
> 
> 
> Your telling me, 3 pc lights and ballasts to match were hella expensive and so was the substrates 4 bags of flora base cost me like $100...lol but im in too deep to not go all the way, you know what i mean i shelled out too much at this point to not get the CO2 and all the other sh!ts


sounds like all you need is the 1. CO2 system, and 2. ferts... then a chap way to get 3. plants.

I got my CO2 controller/regulator deal on ebay for $150. I got 2 CO2 cylanders from a local welding shop for $60 on sale. Then all you need is the good airline tubing, and a couple of cheap check valves.
As for ferts, I shop at Greg Watson's online store for dry mAcro ferts.(-nitrate, phosphate, and potassium) You could get micros from him, (plantex csm+b, chelated iron) but I prefer the 2L jugs of Flourish comprehensive, and iron from drsfostersmith.com.
While I was getting all that ready, I would get in there with the hobbyists on aquaticplantcentral.com, because they sell plants really cheap, and they are usually top quality.
Hope that helps


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Yea thanks for the info, im one of those guys who doesnt buy online... i dont know why that is i just have never bought anything online, never done ebay or anything but one of my homies is going to help me get some stuff from ebay, and im going to go shop for c02 cylinders tomorrow cuz i just got a bonus at work today and i love to spend money... also dont know why that is. ill be asking alota questions when it comes time to dosings because i get lost just reading how to do it and figure out a system.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

i got my milwaukee regulator and my sms122 controller and now im just waiting on a few litle things like the rest of my ferts, co2 tank, co2 tubing, and iron and phosphate test kits then im all good to go. but dippy you made me run into a brick wall WHAT THE HELL IS A CHECK VALVE?? did it come with my milwaukee regulator?? or my sms 122?? after i use up my kent botanical line of ferts ill order the dry stuff from greg watson and mix them in my empty botanical bottles. hopefully i can find the stuff i need pretty cheap, or i need to find a job cause i ran outa money







, hey dippy can i jump in line for any plants you are selling? particularly e. tellenus or DHG or anything really because i went to LFS and their selection sucks and they are trying to sell me everything i dont need or dont want and im the kinda guy who cant say no.

P.S. sorry for typos or weird phrases im trying my best im soooooo soma'd out right now its hard my fingers wont listen to me it took 10mins to type this








-Josh


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

cheapest full setup I've found is off DR foster smith. just need a tank. 
it was like 120. but that is not a PH controled system it is a timer controled system. You dont HAVE to have the PH controler. but it does make it easier and less for you to have to monitor. Personally I'm ok with dropping a bubble a sec into the tank and not worry about what the PH is at so long as the system stops at night time. with the featured system on DRF&S you can do that.

A check valve is a one way inline coupler that saves you from having water syphon back to your tank. it is a required. But they are fairly cheap.

You say your not an online buyer... best of luck to you finding a deal. 
You're going to have to exaughst your local resources then.

full auto system less bottle
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...p;N=2004+113779

Semi auto (timer controled) less bottle
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...p;N=2004+113779


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

thanks blacksunshine, I just bit the bullet and opened an ebay and paypal acount and bought a sms122 ph controller and milwaukee regulator combo on ebay. OH thats what a check valve is same as a regular o2 check valve cool that answered my question i thought it had to be special. I'm waiting on my last check and then im going to order all the final trimmings online and be done with it. then i should start packing the tank with plants although i think im going to break the tank down and do another cleaning and scratch removal session. plus i have a few odds and ends to do to the tank and stand so hopefully within 3 to 4 weeks it will be up, running, and planted. thanks for the info blacksunshine.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

couple more things and your good to go. you might take a look at the full kit and see what else you're going to need to put it all toghether. and you may be able to save some coin doing it that way. I cannot stress the importance of having a good way to dissapate the CO2 into the tank. so a good diffuser is a must or else you will just be wasting your CO2.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

yea im going to use dippy's method and put my co2 line into my intake on my xp3 filter so the impeller will chop it up, i think this might be a better and more cost effective manner than a glass diffuser plus i dont want to clutter my tank with diffusers or co2 lines im trying to keep everything hidden in my intank overflow like my heater and probably my co2 probe from the sms122.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Now with pics


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

BRO!!!

hey, you are stockpiling some good stuff there!!







Man, I wanna start from scartch again..lol

Looking good--you can save with the dry gregwatsom.com ferts, but other than that, your big expenses are out of the way it seems! I can't wait for the journal thread!
Ask the questions now, before you set it up!!

You got all that good stuff, I have to send you some plants bro







You got flora base, that stuff softens water a bit, certain plants love that..


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Yea its been a pain, im going to go gregwatson ferts for sure i just figured id go the beginner way until i run out and then order from greg watsons that way i can use the empty bottles as mixers, the online place i ordered from sent me the upgraded size on the nitro+ and phos+, each 16oz was $4.99, dippy the only test kits i dont have are K, and Iron, do you think i should invest in these test kits or are they not too important?? ohh i have to remember to buy an algea scrubber









AND you can send all the plants you would like just let me know how much$$, im going to pack the tank to get it into balance real quick, im expecting a new arrival sometime soon







once hes here im going to thin the tank a tad bit to give him plenty of room to grow, does a lower GH make the PH unstable or is that the KH that makes it unstable??because before softner(house) i have 13dh gh and after softner its 1dh gh, if plants like a lower gh i was going to cut it half and half, so about 6-7GH with a 9KH. what would you suggest?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> the only test kits i dont have are K, and Iron, do you think i should invest in these test kits or are they not too important??


Don't worry about those.. not necissary


> im expecting a new arrival sometime soon once hes here im going to thin the tank a tad bit to give him plenty of room to grow


I hope your tank will have enough plant mass after you 'thin' the tank!


> does a lower GH make the PH unstable or is that the KH that makes it unstable??because before softner(house) i have 13dh gh and after softner its 1dh gh, if plants like a lower gh i was going to cut it half and half, so about 6-7GH with a 9KH. what would you suggest?


Hmm most house softeners trade TDSs for sodium.. I don't know exactly what to tell ya about that, other than-- a GH of 6-10 and a KH of 3-4 is perfect








a KH of 2 is a tad unstable, but some softer water plants like a very low KH.. But I think 3-4 will be right in there for ya!


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

that is gonna be amazing with that xingu in a heavily planted tank.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

If at all possible, I would take the water BEFORE the softner. I had problems w. my plants when I was using water oassed through a softner (I guess had quite a bit of salt). What size co2 tank is that? You might want to consider getting a back up tank as well.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

> If at all possible, I would take the water BEFORE the softner. I had problems w. my plants when I was using water oassed through a softner (I guess had quite a bit of salt). What size co2 tank is that? You might want to consider getting a back up tank as well.


Yea i think i will use the presoftened source exodus, because i know my softener uses alot of salt so i wouldnt want to have any adverse side effects especially this being my first time dealing with plants, its 5LB tank and all i could afford at the moment, local welding shops are rediculous, i know im going to probably wiz through 5lbs of co2 within a week or 2 and it will probably take around 30 to 45 minutes to go refill... will this be a big issue having no co2 into the tank while im refulling, down the line i plan on getting another 5lb cylinder and switching them off but for now im out of money so im screwed...i think im going to start finding stuff to pawn off on ebay so i can afford everything i want



> that is gonna be amazing with that xingu in a heavily planted tank.


thanks lament, i think so too and i cant wait until i get the little guy, im thinking of planting 1 side very densely and the other side more open with mainly e. tellenus micro and DHG so he'll feel safe and have room to swim, my tank is a weird shape and only 12" wide in the middle so i cant get too crazy without restricting the space but i kinda know where im going to go with it.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

JJ,
I know what you mean. I went to a local welding supply to get my tank. A 5lb steel tank set me back $70 and another $10 to fill it up. I just ordered a 10lb catalina aluminium tank off eBay for 60$ and found a place that will fill up my tanks w/ "beverage grade co2" for under $5. 
If you run the solenoid w/ the lights you can conserve quite a bit of co2. I ran my 24/7 for the 1st 2 weeks and i'm still going strong at almost 2 months. I will tell you tho that once you actually see your plants grow in front of you this sh*t gets addicting. Don't let the algae get you down, it will happen.
Not a big deal when the co2 runs out. Just turn the lights off and get is refilled. I suggested the backup tank so you can go fill up at your convenience rather than rush to fill up once your tank runs out.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

good luck. looks like you have things under control.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I ran into a sale over at my local welding supply shop.. 2 20lb cylanders FULL for 60$ 67 with tax

the deals are out there sometimes


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

yea thats an awsome deal dippy, i just got my catalina 5lb for $60 and now they dropped the price $10







, ohh well,

Hey a few ??? if i run my solenoid with my lights, will my ph rise during the night? or will it not fluctuate enough to adversely effect my P or my plants? and another question is buble counter fluid just distilled water or is it a certain liquid?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Ya, your pH will rise at night, but not that much, your fish will be fine.

The problem would arise if it does not go on with the lights.. Because higher lights with no CO2 means the pH will crash upwards.

Bubble counter fluid is just plain 'ole water


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Would having the solenoid come on for 5 mins 1 time an hour during the off lights hours keep the ph under a more precise control?? my timer can be set up down to minutes during an hour, so when the lights turn off the solenoid goes off and then comes on for 5 minutes once an hour would that be good?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

JustJoshinYa said:


> Would having the solenoid come on for 5 mins 1 time an hour during the off lights hours keep the ph under a more precise control?? my timer can be set up down to minutes during an hour, so when the lights turn off the solenoid goes off and then comes on for 5 minutes once an hour would that be good?


It wouldn't be good IMO. If you are worried about fluxuation, get a pH controller









The pH jumps mostly when there is high light, and no CO2.. at night it ain't as bad at all.. I have a tank running like that, it is fine


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Just got my gregwatson order in the mail, "for when i run outa the kent botanica", a quick question though how much do you guys mix? to roughly have the same concentration as any of the kent botanica or other equivalent mixtures? and also how long will a pound of each last me on a 2.5wpg pressurized co2 55gal setup with the dosing suggested in dippys pinned topic? just so i know when i have to reorder. thanks for all the help guys.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

JustJoshinYa said:


> Just got my gregwatson order in the mail, "for when i run outa the kent botanica", a quick question though how much do you guys mix? to roughly have the same concentration as any of the kent botanica or other equivalent mixtures? and also how long will a pound of each last me on a 2.5wpg pressurized co2 55gal setup with the dosing suggested in dippys pinned topic? just so i know when i have to reorder. thanks for all the help guys.


Hi
Glad everything is piecing together for ya! I mix, as on the pinned topic, 1 level tablespoon for every 250mls of distilled water.
I do not combine anything, each nutrients have their own seperate bottle. I wrote on the pinned topic what I dose in my 75g tank with 3.0wpg of PC lighting w/ reflectors.

So what you should do is, consider your tank size, and lighting, and get a 'rough estimate' on dosing. Then, for the first few weeks, keep checking your phosphate and nitrate levels to see if they are staying within target params.
Micros, you can just adjust according to light and tank size, and see what happens. If new growth is whitish, yellow, or pale, add more iron, see if that helps. IF the leaves start to wave and curl funny, try more micros..

Hope that helps


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Yep thanks a bunch dippy.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Josh,
I completly shut my co2 off when the lights go off. My ph increases, but it does so slowly. By 8am when the lights go back on, the ph is only up to @ 6.7-6.8 (I maintain a ph of 6.1 w. co2 on). No problems w. my fish at all.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Glad to hear that exodus i was woried because out of the tap my ph is 8.0 and im going to try and im setting my ph controller to about 6.7-6.8 so i figured since my ph is high from the tap it might increase more than what might be acceptable, but im glad it wont affect my P, i cant wait to get started and watch everything start to grow.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Just wanted to ask something real quick, i just got rid of my RBP, and now have no stock in my tank how long will my filters stay cycled(bacteria stay alive) i dont want to have to recycle my tank i should be planting on friday or saturday, can i use pure ammonia to "Feed" my bacteria colonies in my filters?? anyone know??


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

JustJoshinYa said:


> Just wanted to ask something real quick, i just got rid of my RBP, and now have no stock in my tank how long will my filters stay cycled(bacteria stay alive) i dont want to have to recycle my tank i should be planting on friday or saturday, can i use pure ammonia to "Feed" my bacteria colonies in my filters?? anyone know??


once all the ammonia and nitrite are eaten up, the bacteria can starve to death probably in a few weeks or a month
But I'm not really positive how long it would take


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

Thanks dippy, thats a little more reasuring i was thinking in a day or two they would be dying off ill buy some neons and tiger barbs and algea eaters to hold the cycle, well should i open a new thread to be my tank journal or should i just add it onto this thread??? here is my stock list as far as plants go
Qty 
3xRotalla Wallichii (Rotalla wallichii)
1xSag, Dwarf Subulata (Sagittaria subulata)(10 plants per order)
3xDwarf Hairgrass (Eleocharis acicularis) pot
3xMyrio, Red (Myriophyllum heterophyllum)
3xMyrio, Green (Myrio pinnatum)
3xMayaca (Mayaca fluviatilis)
3xCabomba Green (Cabomba carolina)
3xCabomba Purple (Red)(Cabomba pulcherrima)
3xAmbulia (Limnophila indica)
2xBacopa (Bacopa carolina)
1xSword, Narrow Leaf Chain (Echinodorus tennelus)(sold 10 per order)
3xSword, Micro Sword (Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae)(Pot)
1xVals, Corkscrew (Vallisneria americana) (10 plants per order)
3xBaby Tears (Hemianthus micranthemoides)

P.S. 48lbs of Flora Base in a 55g is far more than needed







, it says i should have a 1"to1.5" layer and i think i have a 3"to4" layer but i guess more is better??









Tomorrow i add the lights and hopefully install the co2. im expecting the plants to get here on friday so hopefully friday night ill post some pics of the finished product, geeze 2 months in the making


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