# gars



## Blitz023 (Feb 19, 2004)

I need help. I want to take care of Gars but I dont have a clue how to. Anybody has any advice for me? I have a 60 gal tank, what else do I need?


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Not intending to be rude But a bigger tank would be the first thing to get.
Smallest of the gars will require at least a 75 (Breeder) at minimium,
Wideness is much more important than depth.

That though depends if we are talking about the same fish.

what fish do you mean by gar, many other smaller fish are called Gars but are totally different animals, some of these fish may just fit your tank well.

Heres an older post on the True gars:
http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/in...?showtopic=7163

Hope this helps, if not feel free to PM me,


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## gourami-master (Apr 1, 2004)

yes gars get hude once my friends mom knew some body that kept 2 oscars and an alligator gar in a 55 and fed them feeders its really sick man


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

there is no species small enough for a 75 gallon.. not even a 180.


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## BoomerSub (Jun 23, 2003)

I concur, a larger tank is needed. I would also recommend floating plants like water sprite, they seem to like those.

-PK


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## gourami-master (Apr 1, 2004)

how big do alligator gars get


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## Mr.P (Jul 14, 2003)

Alligator gars get like 6+ feet WAAAAAAAAAAY too big, you can't keep one.


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## gourami-master (Apr 1, 2004)

gesus h christ that guy mustve been the most ignorant asshole in the hole sea 2 oscars with an alligator garr in a 55,diet of feeders there should be laws aganst that


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

gourami-master said:


> gesus h christ that guy mustve been the most ignorant asshole in the hole sea 2 oscars with an alligator garr in a 55,diet of feeders there should be laws aganst that


 ummmm.... nobody cares about what you have to say









gars get very big, 3'+. you would need a huge tank or pond to keep one. alligator gars can get very very large if in the right enviroments. They can get 8'+. I would not suggest keeping a gar in a home aquarium.


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## Blitz023 (Feb 19, 2004)

I guess i wont be getting one then. Thanks for the input.


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## air*force*one (Mar 5, 2004)

the smallest gar gets to be 9" and thats the hujeta gar


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Not all gars are created equal, and not all are 6 foot fish.
Spotted gars and Shortnose can be kept just fine in a 75 breeder,

Bigger tank is better, but this is a rough accecptable minimium,
Having kept many of these fish, experiance tells me thats within
reason, Potential length does not mean much with captive fish,
conditions are different and rarely do they obtain half of the potential
length under normal captive conditions,

What makes you think a 180 is to small for any Gar species? 
and where do you get all are 3 foot+?

This is not accurate information, just a regergitation of bad information,
Probley bad info for the better, but still bad info that is based less on
experiance and more on wild fish info mined from an a Fishbase type source,
Not from someone who has kept them for any length of time,

If you have no experiance with the fish, actually anwsering a question about them
is a bit out of your range, please allow us that do have experiance to do our job.
and pass on information that is relivent and usefull.

Let us that have a background to discourge keeping the fish under conditions
that are known, Not just passing BS as a reason for not keeping them.

It's hard enough to get accurate information to anglers that want to Kill every gar 
they see, your added impressions of them based in myth does not help any
on the Aquarium fish impression either.

If you have no true experiance with the animal add your opinion as just that,
an opinion, and make that obvious to the reader,

adding this is what I think/ Read about them.
Should be somewhere in the Text of your reply.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Poly you are right, it is our opinion, but dare i say "the great majority" of the people in the forums i frequent hold minimum tank size to be 4 times the length of the fish by at least its own length in width. The smaller gar species from what I have read get about 20" long in aquariums, and therefore the tank must be at least 20" wide. Then, 4 body lengths. 72" out of 20" can be considered "close enough" to 4 times the length of the fish. Hence why a 180g fits our ideal rather well.

I presume you biologists keep tank size conditions more practical, but us hobbiests like to keep ourselves under the notion that our fish are "happy", instead of just merely "surviving"-- even though, for all we know, the 20" fish might just be perfectly content in a 75g breeder, or it might still be miserable in a mere 180g.

But our little prefabricated notions, correct or not, are what we set as our general standards, and so our advice follows accordingly.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> Poly you are right, it is our opinion, but dare i say "the great majority" of the people in the forums i frequent hold minimum tank size to be 4 times the length of the fish by at least its own length in width. The smaller gar species from what I have read get about 20" long in aquariums, and therefore the tank must be at least 20" wide. Then, 4 body lengths. 72" out of 20" can be considered "close enough" to 4 times the length of the fish. Hence why a 180g fits our ideal rather well.
> 
> I presume you biologists keep tank size conditions more practical, but us hobbiests like to keep ourselves under the notion that our fish are "happy", instead of just merely "surviving"-- even though, for all we know, the 20" fish might just be perfectly content in a 75g breeder, or it might still be miserable in a mere 180g.
> 
> But our little prefabricated notions, correct or not, are what we set as our general standards, and so our advice follows accordingly.


 P45,
Thats interesting and I respect this 4 body lengths and total size for width,
That is adaquate and fine,

But if you read my suggestion I'm basicly saying length and depth means nothing,
Width is very important to these fish, actual gallons of water do not mean much as 
long as the tank has the approprite width, surface area is critical with gars.

You lecturing me on animal welfare issues is also ammusing, 
I'll leave it at that


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

I'm not lecturing you on animal welfare, I'm lecturing you on the logic behind our suggestions. All I did was explain to you why we suggested a 180g. I elicited-- or at least intended to elicit-- no personal opinions or thoughts in that post at all and I certainly wouldn't go about trying to tell a biologist how to keep animals. You seemed baffled about the 180g suggestion so I tried to explain the reasoning behind it.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> Not all gars are created equal, and not all are 6 foot fish.
> Spotted gars and Shortnose can be kept just fine in a 75 breeder,
> 
> Bigger tank is better, but this is a rough accecptable minimium,
> ...


I have had alot of experience with lepisosteus. How can you sugest a 75 gallon Breeder (what dimensions are these?) for even a spotted gar? These fish cannot "kink" their boddies like Arowana.

i have had lepisosteus oculatus grow out of my 2 foot wide tanks. L. oculatus is also one of the smaller species. mine reached 25+ inches, and were still growing. At one time i was caring for 4 different speices and 18 individuals, so dont say i have no experience.

I am also looking at this from a hobbyest perspective and not a scientist perspective.. the fish in my care are "happy".. the fish in your care are "objects of science". so i can see why you would recomend such a small tank, they are just science projects to you.

Dont recomend small tanks.. especialy with these fish. They swim alot and are very active in large volumes of water.


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## dead golfish (Apr 24, 2003)

Peackock how do u know they are happy they r fish and unless u can talk to them then dont say there happy because really u have no idea


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

dead golfish said:


> Peackock how do u know they are happy they r fish and unless u can talk to them then dont say there happy because really u have no idea


he meant to say he tries to make them happy, under the pretense that a larger tank will theoretically make a fish happier than a smaller tank, thats why he used quotations on the word


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## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

piranha45 said:


> dead golfish said:
> 
> 
> > Peackock how do u know they are happy they r fish and unless u can talk to them then dont say there happy because really u have no idea
> ...


 damn P45. you are now a translator, that is cool


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> Not intending to be rude But a *bigger tank* would be the first thing to get.
> Smallest of the gars will require at least a 75 (Breeder) at *minimium*,
> *Wideness *is much more important than depth.
> 
> ...


Is something being missed in the translation here?

So Peacock, you where keeping 18 individuals of all four Lepisosteus,
Please I would love to know how you did so,

I have facilitys dedicated to them at 1,200 gallons
and at most have 4 to 6 fish at any one time of two species at most,
and this is of great expense, space and time devoted to them.

This is Keeping them as a Science project without provisions in place for their
well being and wellfare? My work with these fish is in the area of behavior,
and I do this on my own dime. Trust me they are a bit more to me than
Objects. This has been a lifelong work of mine, and what got me started in all
this to begin with. I would not suggest something that I did not know for myself to be true,

I am suggesting a known minimum for the aquarium size of the smaller gar species
not openly recommending it as a standard to go by, or the standard that should
be seen as permenent, Never do you find in any statement I say, that a 
75 gallon breeder is the best option, it is the lowest option, it is the
Mimimium option required,

Sorry I have the un-nessesary tendincy to be very vocal and contraversial
But I do not recomend or give out bad information.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> But I do not recomend or give out bad information.


 You are sugesting a fish live in a tank just large enough to where he can turn around in?... thats all?.. you are not sugesting a tank where the fish can move around and get a decent amount of excersize?. As long as the fish can move around the slitest bit, thats OK to your standards.?

and you f*cking sat there and lectured me about my pet squirrel.. What the f*ck.

I like you poly, but this post just pissed me off.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

armac said:


> piranha45 said:
> 
> 
> > dead golfish said:
> ...


 armac you're just being MEAN to me


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Peacock said:


> Polypterus said:
> 
> 
> > But I do not recomend or give out bad information.
> ...


 I think I relized where this is not making sense,
you are thinking a typical 75 gallon that is
48" x 18" x 21"

This is not the tank I'm talking about, the 75 I'm
talking about is 40" x 36" x 12"

This tank is very different from a 75 standard,

And again this is the bare *Minimium* for a 
Spotted _Lepisosteus oculatus _or Shortnose _L. platostomus_

I'm not saying to put an Alligator gar in a 75.

These fish listed rarely get very large in captive conditions with 24 inches a
relitivly common average size. My standing for picking this tank
as a minimium tank size, takes fully into account, 
the animals natural behavior and activity level,

These gars are not active persuit predators nor do they activly care to
move much outside of feeding time, They do like to do a short lap
around the tank after feeding often in short controlled bursts,

This tank size works as a Minimium size tank to allow for the typical
behavior of these gar at 20 inches long,

in contrary this same
tank would be useless for a Longnosed gar _L. osseus_
Longnosed gar are a very active fish most of the day and into the night,
These fish will persue a prey item with much vigor, and like to swim around alot.
They will quickly outgrow any commercial made aquarium.
Keeping an adult fish in anything under a large pond or special made 
tank is not very feasible.

A Flordia gar will get larger than the Spotted or Shortnose in captivity,
Their behavior and activity level is about the same, I have mixed thoughts
about what a minimium tank size for this species would be.

Peacock, 
I do not grow things out of my ass, I have a damn good reason
behind it or I stay silent. I do work with these fish and have been doing so
for about 20 years, 
Gars are a very important fish to me and part of my lifes work,

I respect both you (and P45) but I will agree to disagree
And I'm sticking by my experiance and knowledge.

I do respect your point of view and I admit some aspects of my
previous posts were un-nessesary and hostile, said out of
irratation and impulse which I appologize for.

I do not care to have a feuding match with you,

Instead of taking up more space here PM me if you
want to continue this back and forth, heres why I'm right,
heres why your wrong discussion and now lets get into the meat of
keeping Gar and not scaring Newbies to death for asking a question.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > Polypterus said:
> ...


 i have never heard of a 75 of those dimensions.. nor do i know of a place that would sell such a thing..

I dont think you should recomend a custom sized tank..

New fish keepers will not understand the basics of tank dimensions.. and further more buy a normal 75 or a normal 125 thinking its "ok" because it has more gallons..

see my point?

If they cannot find this custom 75 they will buy a normal 125 and think they are doing a better job because it has 50 more gallons. even though it still has shitty dimensions.

this subject is finished..


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## micus (Jan 7, 2004)

i believe hujeta's only get to be about 18-20 inchs , that would do in a 75


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

micus said:


> i believe hujeta's only get to be about 18-20 inchs , that would do in a 75


these are not species of Gar..

and NO..A 20 inch fish WILL NOT do well in a 75.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Peacock said:


> i have never heard of a 75 of those dimensions.. nor do i know of a place that would sell such a thing..
> 
> I dont think you should recomend a custom sized tank..
> 
> ...


I definitly get your point, I live in my own world where getting 
Non-standard tanks is common and easy, I forget most do not
have that luxury and are commited only to what the LPS offers,

This is not a custom tank size though and can be ordered if your LPS
does special ordering. These are frequently used for salt tanks

I do not have it at hand but will look up the makers of the tanks I use
and post it so all will have the resource and ability to obtain them.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > i have never heard of a 75 of those dimensions.. nor do i know of a place that would sell such a thing..
> ...


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