# Need Advice In A Hurry!



## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

I ordered 2 new fish from aquascape on friday. They came in perfectly ontime sat morn in perfect health. I had a 20 gallon tank cycling for 2 days water params were near perfect. They were 2 baby black Rhoms probally 1" at best. Fed them once a blood worm cube. Woke up just this morn and one of them is swimming erratically i'll try and describe. He is swimming in a circling/twirling motion, with his body bent a bit. He sits still on the bottom for a rest and chills but if I try and make him move or he moves on his own he still swims like that. I dont know what I did wrong? Can he be helped?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Only 1 rhom per tank or they'll try to kill each other. Perhaps that one is stressed out.


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

You only cycled your water for two days? That's not long enough to go threw a cycle. Are they divided?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Test your water. It might not foul up that fast with 2x1" rhom.


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

As they were REALLY small, I was sure the 20 gallon tank would be sufficient for a small amount of time it is too hard to feed 1" fish in a 90 gallon tank. They are not seperated. Im not home to test the water, but I did when I seen the behavior and all was well.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

Sounds like a combination of factors. Tank not being properly cycled, even moderately low ammonia levels to fish that size can be stressful and damaging. Also keeping serra's together even at that size is a no no, only adding to the stress. Buy some egg crate and separate them. And then worry bout your water quality


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

Traveller said:


> Sounds like a combination of factors. Tank not being properly cycled, even moderately low ammonia levels to fish that size can be stressful and damaging. Also keeping serra's together even at that size is a no no, only adding to the stress. Buy some egg crate and separate them. And then worry bout your water quality


Do you think he can recover? What should I do next? The levels are all good, but I always keep the PH alky 7.8 is the only abnormal. Water temp 78. Ammo 0


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

1) 2 days is not a cycle. A full cycle could be 20x that. A 2 day "cycle" coudl give you perfect water chemistry if nothing has really even broken down which leads me to ask did you add an ammonia source? Did you use any established media?

2) like said divide at least to reduce their stress and be sure they do not kill eachother.

3) test the water and if nessisary do a water change as im assuimg the ammonia is probably spiking


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## 65galhex (Nov 5, 2008)

If you just got the fish, I would keep the lights off as you dont want them to be over stimulated. I agree separadtion is also the next step. What are your nitrates/nirtites? IMO 7.8 is high. Did you acclimate the fish or did you just dump them in? Please clarify also on the length of cycle.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

Like Cluster One said, what did you use to cycle the tank? IME the fastest I've had a tank go through full cycle was 18 days using stress zyme (which I found works quite well), and even after that I stocked slowly to make sure the beneficial bacteria could multiply to handle the waste.
Whether the fish will recover or not depends on how well you are able to maintain the water quality. I find it hard to believe that your ammo levels are 0, what test kit are you using?
Also what are your nitrite and nitrate levels? You might also want to check your nitrate levels out the tap as this could be used for an indication on what exactly is going on inside the tank.
Until you provide accurate water param results its hard to advise you on what exactly needs to be done.
Also like 65galhex asked, did you acclimatise your fish? If not asking your LFS where you got the fish what pH they keep there tanks at could help you determine the irregular swimming patterns as it could be from pH shock.
If you can, post pictures of the tank, setup and test results and we'll work from there to find a solution.








Good luck


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

OK ... here is the FULL SKINNY. This tank is just a hospital tank 20 gallons. Has been drained for 2 months or so, used maybe 3 times for 1 treatment of a Spilo for Popeye and 2 Reds for Ick. Has had same sand in it whole time, 1 live plant a bubbler aquaclear filter for 40 gallons and a 125 watt heater. Temp always at 78, I used store brought READY water (that I always use for new fish to make sure is best scenario) I put them in to float for 20-30 min. I dont drip, because I dont want the water in the bag to contaminate the tank so after a float its "into the garbage chute fly-boy". They were happy, no problems. hell they even hung out together under the plant happy. All weekend best of friends. Test the water daily to make sure all is well because they are only an inch maybe even a lil smaller (I NEVER DEALT WITH FISH THIS SMALL) Gave them 1 blood worm cube on sunday they ate what they could the rest was removed. Woke up THIS morning and 1 with no visible signs of injury is just swimming erratically. in a continuous circle with his body bent and contorted. He rests with a fast pace breathing then continues if disturbed. I had my GF remove him from the hospital tank and placed in a 75 gallon with 1 Ruby Red Spilo in perfect health and in that tank for months. He is protected but has access to the bubble to attempt to get him air ... AND this is where we stand ... NOW .... what do I do from here and will he possibly live, and how do I give him his best chances?


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

I wouldn't of added him to the RRS tank as the fish could be ill and pass whatever he has onto the RRS. And I have no clue what store bought water is as the beneficial bacteria is stored in the filter media not the water. 
Also dripping is used to match water params, floating is done when assuming params are equal.

Hopefully someone else can chime in to help


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/zoom/index.jsp?productId=4368192 this is the water I use to cycle. about half and half. Your right about the Spilo I will take him out when I get home but I dont have anywhere to put the possibly infected fish in question? I REALLY wish people would chime in if they have dealt with this before. Not that I dont appreciate everyone helping me right now, thank you all. I just want him to live or possibly prevent this in the other baby.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

The more you move the fish around the worse of it'll get.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Zeushalives said:


> OK ... here is the FULL SKINNY. This tank is just a hospital tank 20 gallons. Has been drained for 2 months or so, used maybe 3 times for 1 treatment of a Spilo for Popeye and 2 Reds for Ick. Has had same sand in it whole time, 1 live plant a bubbler aquaclear filter for 40 gallons and a 125 watt heater. Temp always at 78, I used store brought READY water little bacteria is in the water relative to the media though I don't know exactly what this water consists of but a full cycle is probably better. You would of been better of buying or getting some established media(that I always use for new fish to make sure is best scenario) I put them in to float for 20-30 min. I dont drip, because I dont want the water in the bag to contaminate the tank so after a float its "into the garbage chute fly-boy". They were happy, no problems. hell they even hung out together under the plant happy. All weekend best of friends. Test the water daily to make sure all is well because they are only an inch maybe even a lil smaller (I NEVER DEALT WITH FISH THIS SMALL) Gave them 1 blood worm cube on sunday they ate what they could the rest was removed. Woke up THIS morning and 1 with no visible signs of injury is just swimming erratically. in a continuous circle with his body bent and contorted. He rests with a fast pace breathing then continues if disturbed. I had my GF remove him from the hospital tank and placed in a 75 gallon with 1 Ruby Red Spilo in perfect health and in that tank for months.Divided I hope or he is a snack for the rrs He is protected but has access to the bubble to attempt to get him air ... AND this is where we stand ... NOW .... what do I do from here and will he possibly live, and how do I give him his best chances?


I would still like some test results. If you want help I would really like to see some test results so I can hopefully see waht is happening My assumption is initially you had no ammonia source which means perfect water chemistry but no bacteria. if you add any ammonia source the ammonia will spike.

A vid of the fish would be nice if possible as the discription doesnt sound overly odd other then fast breating. I would start with a water change with conditioned water


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> OK ... here is the FULL SKINNY. This tank is just a hospital tank 20 gallons. Has been drained for 2 months or so, used maybe 3 times for 1 treatment of a Spilo for Popeye and 2 Reds for Ick. Has had same sand in it whole time, 1 live plant a bubbler aquaclear filter for 40 gallons and a 125 watt heater. Temp always at 78, I used store brought READY water little bacteria is in the water relative to the media though I don't know exactly what this water consists of but a full cycle is probably better. You would of been better of buying or getting some established media(that I always use for new fish to make sure is best scenario) I put them in to float for 20-30 min. I dont drip, because I dont want the water in the bag to contaminate the tank so after a float its "into the garbage chute fly-boy". They were happy, no problems. hell they even hung out together under the plant happy. All weekend best of friends. Test the water daily to make sure all is well because they are only an inch maybe even a lil smaller (I NEVER DEALT WITH FISH THIS SMALL) Gave them 1 blood worm cube on sunday they ate what they could the rest was removed. Woke up THIS morning and 1 with no visible signs of injury is just swimming erratically. in a continuous circle with his body bent and contorted. He rests with a fast pace breathing then continues if disturbed. I had my GF remove him from the hospital tank and placed in a 75 gallon with 1 Ruby Red Spilo in perfect health and in that tank for months.Divided I hope or he is a snack for the rrs He is protected but has access to the bubble to attempt to get him air ... AND this is where we stand ... NOW .... what do I do from here and will he possibly live, and how do I give him his best chances?


I would still like some test results. If you want help I would really like to see some test results so I can hopefully see waht is happening My assumption is initially you had no ammonia source which means perfect water chemistry but no bacteria. if you add any ammonia source the ammonia will spike.

A vid of the fish would be nice if possible as the discription doesnt sound overly odd other then fast breating. I would start with a water change with conditioned water
[/quote]

I'll try and get a vid up, I will also get a pic of the test results when I get home from work. The filter is BRAND NEW purchased with the water when I brought the tank out again a few days ago. I dont know how to put vids up but I will try. PLEASE DONT LEAVE ME LOL, I get home at like 920 and will put the pics and stuff up if he is still alive and hopefully ... WE ... can help this guy survive


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

Sorry, the WHOLE world was blowing up when I got home did not get a chance to log on with new updates. (Params STILL are not bad in the 20 gallon tank: Temp 78, PH still 7.8, Ammo .25, Nitrite .50, Nitrate 20) Good news he seems alot more calm and actually I seen him swim in a semi straight line SLOWLY, but if sees me or startled will do the twirling thing again. He UNFORTUNATELY is still in the RRS tank (he seemed to be recovering so I didnt want to remove him) This tank params are PERFECT still. I dont know what to do, what should I do? Leave him hoping he recovers? But he wont eat the way I have him isolated from the RRS, and not sure THAT is not stressing him out! ANYONE please I willing to listen to ANY plans and follow.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

SO how is he divided from the RRS? It should be pretty easy and cheap to get or make a divider for the 20g. For the rrs tank I would give him time to eat as if you just got him+ ammonia and being moved around he may still be stressed. For the one in the 20g I would continue with requent small waterchanges with conditioned water to keep the ammonia down.

Your discription still doesn't sound like anythign terrible as serras often have a serrasalmus tilt when stationary and can be abit skiddish when small. The ammonia could account for the rapid breathing and stress from moving, being moved tanks, other fish...

First try to reduce the ammonia and stress then it should eat.


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> SO how is he divided from the RRS? It should be pretty easy and cheap to get or make a divider for the 20g. For the rrs tank I would give him time to eat as if you just got him+ ammonia and being moved around he may still be stressed. For the one in the 20g I would continue with requent small waterchanges with conditioned water to keep the ammonia down.
> 
> Your discription still doesn't sound like anythign terrible as serras often have a serrasalmus tilt when stationary and can be abit skiddish when small. The ammonia could account for the rapid breathing and stress from moving, being moved tanks, other fish...
> 
> First try to reduce the ammonia and stress then it should eat.


He is isolated by this home-made Net type thing I created giving him a bubble about 7" if you will. I dont know how to explain it lol. I know some serras has a lil tilt but this is MUCH different, picture him swimming as if a airplane in a flat spin just round n round not twards his destination even though he wants to go there. His body just wont let him, much like an injured fish just desperatly trying to just stay alive. But if swimming SLOWLY will have the infamous Serra tilt. Should I move him back to the 20. The other seems to be PERFECTLY fine, good health.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

You can try to leave him with the RRS divided but if the net is a mesh the RRS could possibly chew right through it and get the 1"er


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> You can try to leave him with the RRS divided but if the net is a mesh the RRS could possibly chew right through it and get the 1"er


I was thinkin that too, the fact that he last the night was impressive. Im gonna figure how I can protect him. The Spilo is in a bow front tank I dont know if they make dividers.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Zeushalives said:


> You can try to leave him with the RRS divided but if the net is a mesh the RRS could possibly chew right through it and get the 1"er


I was thinkin that too, the fact that he last the night was impressive. Im gonna figure how I can protect him. The Spilo is in a bow front tank I dont know if they make dividers.
[/quote]
Probably not for a bow but you can get them for 20g tanks for about 15$. Cheaper if buy some plexi and drill some holes.

Depending how small these serras are eggcrate could work but it wont if they are small enough to fit through it.


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## Zeushalives (Dec 30, 2010)

Definately small enough to fit through, im tellin ya they are like .5 to 1" at best! Very small. I was a lil upset when I got em cause I knew the smaller - the harder to keep alive


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

trust me im SURPRISED it hasnt died yet...

ive bought atleast 11 baby serras from aquascape and theyr hard to keep LIVE BUT ITS POSSIBLE

now from what i read he should of been dead as alot of my dead baby serras did the same thing right when i introduced them to their tank, which were all cycled 10gl

as of your little serra cohab dont do it, i have made the same mistake and pay'd with a loss , keep them seperate

im preety sure cluster can finishing helping you out with the rest of the problem


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