# Could this fish be THIS fish?



## SharkAquarium (May 16, 2003)

Could this fish be THIS fish? Note the heavy caudal margin.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Lighten your fish up for more detail. Could be, hard to say for certain. Where did you get it (locality) and approximate size to those other ones?


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## SharkAquarium (May 16, 2003)

I have 3 of these, 6-7", and I honestly do not know where they came from; Argentina is my guess, but I have held them at least a year, noting they were 'different'.

I also have a breeding group of a similar Piranha that definately came out of Argentina. The fact that it spawns at will leads me to believe it is a Pgyo. I have had these for at least 2 years. I'll get a pic of these in a day or two.


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Why is that? S. spilopleura has been bred for a long time.


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## SharkAquarium (May 16, 2003)

My point is that it is DEFINATELY NOT A SPILO, and still lives, and breeds at ease in a shoal. This, IMO, tends to imply a Pygo species, unless you're aware of other Serrasalmus that lives, (AND breeds) easily in a shoal.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Use a device to open mouth to keep open and try and get inside upper palate photo behind front teeth. There's a few photos here in this forum that will show you what I'm looking for.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

I remembered these same exact fish from PFish and a thread involving it on both sites. Still dont think anyone have came to a conclusion... Pedro, have you even uncovered what category these Ps are with (Serras/Pygo)?? Plus I remembered you selling these bad boys.. any offeres or does the sale still stand??


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Serrasalmus aureus?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Raptor Posted on May 20 2003, 06:42 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Serrasalmus aureus?


 That name is a synonym of S. eigenmanni. Not even close.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Can't find the rght pic i seen. But it is probably mislabeled.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

Everyone, I know this seems like it has been going on for many many months, but Frank and I are doing what we can to determine what the fish is.

Frank really has found some interesting information about the location the fish were collected in and we are trying to follow this up. So far, it seems as though every noted Piranha specialist is interested in this fish, which is a good sign.

I can tell you this much, the fish (the group shot pictured in this thread) comes from one region that is not normally fished, it is from Brazil, it is believed to be a serrasalmus. That is really all of the factual information that can be given at this time. I want to know, more than most, what the fish is since I mported it and know where it came from. As soon as we can get more information that is believed to be accurate, we will post it for everyone else to see. We are just trying to be very sure of what it is first, then release the data.

No, I do not believe the picture posted here as a comparison to the group photo is of the same species.


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## Birdman (Mar 19, 2003)

serrasalmus maculatus, that is my guess


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Interesting guess......but no, its not S. maculatus.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

My guess is Serrasalmus enigmatus...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Something like that.


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## Birdman (Mar 19, 2003)

this is the maculatus pic that made me think that they were this speices, maybe i'm just seeimg things


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Birdman Posted on Jul 9 2003, 07:41 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> this is the maculatus pic that made me think that they were this speices, maybe i'm just seeimg things


 The fish angle when that photo appeared and was sent to me suggested S. maculatus based on the tail and coloration. However, since having had the opportunity to examine one dead one and doing further research into previous collections by field scientists, a pending review by Dr. W.L. Fink et al., I'm of the opinion, while this fish has some similar attributes to S. maculatus, it may not be S. maculatus at all.

End of Story ---- for now.


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## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Just a quick sidebar.

Looking back to George's first post regarding the two fishes. I do not believe them to be the same. Just look at the anal fins, the single fish has no black trailing edge while the fish in the group do. I simply imagine the fish as Black and White, no color and what traits would stand out even if they were B & W. That is definitely one of those traits.

Just my 2 cents.....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

You mean like this?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Or this one:


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

BTW Brian I included the syntype of S. maculatus here at OPEFE:

S. maculatus

Don't know if you have seen it or not. Been busy revising pages and updating new data on most pirana species. A BIG TASK.









And a nice dead one here.


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## SharkAquarium (May 16, 2003)

Very good point. Any suggestions what mine are?


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

B. Scott said:


> Just a quick sidebar.
> 
> Looking back to George's first post regarding the two fishes. I do not believe them to be the same. Just look at the anal fins, the single fish has no black trailing edge while the fish in the group do. I simply imagine the fish as Black and White, no color and what traits would stand out even if they were B & W. That is definitely one of those traits.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.....


Exatly!! I was just about to comment on the differences with both pix. The first pic has an the body and features of a Serrasalmus, while the 2nd isn't as long and stretched out but of an oval shape as a Natereri. I would also go against my own opinions knowing that Ps housed in holding tanks from distributors look far different from Ps housed in a home aquarium, and have different shapes of the fish. My best guess and opinion are of it being a S. Aureus also, because of the close resemblence to shape and color variations..


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> SharkAquarium Posted on Jul 17 2003, 12:32 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Very good point. Any suggestions what mine are?


 That's the million dollar question because it does look like the example I've been working on. Suffice it to say, I have people incountry looking at it and Ron (at my urging) sent a specimen to Fink who is still playing with it.

Ultimately, it will be up to Ron to let us all know what Fink finds out, unless of course my other source lets me know first.







I can pretty much say with almost certainty it is not S. maculatus, at least not by the counts I have made on this fish, unless it is a geo-vario of S. maculatus which I presently doubt.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2003)

still waiting, but I hope to get word back soon on the fish I sent.


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## oburi (Jul 11, 2003)

are there 1 or 2 S.maculatus swimming in the tank in that first pic??? the second pic when lightened up looks like the fish kind of has the same color tone to the fish in the first pic or other S.maculatus pics, im no expert though(learning quick tho)

Oburi


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