# Turtle Question



## garybusey

Basically I have a 10G and I want a friggin turtle. I know JACK SQUAT about turtles though. What is an easy turtle to house in a 10g? Any of Innes SUPER DUPER links would be great too!


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## CrocKeeper

> Basically I have a 10G and I want a friggin turtle. I know JACK SQUAT about turtles though. What is an easy turtle to house in a 10g? Any of Innes SUPER DUPER links would be great too!


First let's remedy the not knowing squat part......

A Quick-Care Guide to Semi-Aquatic Turtles

David T. Kirkpatrick, Ph.D

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Reptile breeding has undergone a revolution in the last couple of decades. The early days of herpetoculture consisted of simply finding ways to keep animals alive; breeding was rarely even contemplated. However, advances in husbandry led to a burst of success in breeding snakes, and now a huge number of species of snakes are being captive-bred around the world. The breeding of lizards took longer to explode, but in recent years captive-born lizards have also become more commonplace. And now, slowly but surely, successes are being reported in breeding turtles and tortoises. Given the nature of most turtles, it is perhaps fitting that these chelonian advances are slow and deliberate! Not surprisingly, many of the semi-aquatic turtles that are being bred in reasonable numbers in the US are native species, as it is easier to get animals to thrive in captivity within their native locale. This article will serve as a short primer to introduce novice turtle-keepers to the animals and their needs in captivity.
Sliders, cooters, painted turtles and map turtles all resemble each other superficially, and require similar care. Their shells are disc-shaped and relatively flat. Sliders, cooters and maps generally are colored some shade of green or brown, while painteds are black. All of these turtles have stripes of lighter color on their skin and occasionally on their shells; on a map turtle these stripes are so intricate that they give the turtle its common name. Sliders and cooters are hardy turtles and usually do well in captivity. However, they grow quite large, with some types approaching two feet, although most common species only grow to about 12 inches in length. Painted turtles are smaller and somewhat less hardy, while map turtles require the most attention to thrive. A wide variety of exotic turtles are intermittently available, such as leaf turtles, African mud turtles, and snake-necked turtles. Juvenile snappers and softshell turtles are also sold, but their large adult size and aggressive behavior make them unsuitable for all but the most dedicated turtle-keepers.

For those keepers interested in smaller turtles, mud and musk turtles are fascinating creatures. Most are about half the size of the sliders and painteds. Unlike the saucer-shaped sliders, these turtles have taller, steep-sided shells that are longer than they are wide. While their brownish color scheme is drab compared to the colorful sliders, what they lack in appearance they make up for in personality. Mud and musk turtles have lived for fifty years in captivity - with proper care they are quite hardy. No matter what turtle you decide upon, investigate its natural history. Ernest, Lovich and Barbour's Turtles of the United States and Canada or Ernst and Barbour's Turtles of the World are good starting points.

The most common way to keep semi-aquatic turtles in captivity is in an aquarium. For many species, this works well, if you keep in mind the specific turtle and how it lives normally. There are a number of basics that are common to water turtle setups. The aquarium should be large enough to give the turtle adequate swimming room in both length and depth. Only juveniles can be kept in small aquariums, and they will outgrow them, so you might as well start with a bigger tank to save money and time! Adult sliders, for example, require a very large aquarium, especially if breeding is desired. The water level should be deeper than the turtle is wide - shallower water may prevent the turtle from righting itself if it flips over, a possibly fatal situation. There should be no place underwater in the tank where the turtle could get wedged in such a way that it cannot get to the surface to breathe.

The aquarium does not require decorations, but a land area should be provided where the turtle can haul out and dry off. Worn driftwood or smooth flat rocks work well, as they will be the least likely to rub or scratch the turtle's shell as it climbs out of the water. Position a spotlight over the area to simulate the sun, allowing the turtle to bask. A fully submersible water heater helps keep the water at a reasonable temperature year-round - from 75 to 85 degrees for many chelonians. Most turtles do very well with this minimal setup: a large, deep, undecorated, heated aquarium with a spotlight over a flat rock on which they can dry off and sun themselves. However, other equipment makes things easier for both the turtle-keeper and the turtle. For example, a timer for the light is helpful, while a water filter will keep the water clear of larger debris and increase the time between water changes.

Once you have decided on the kind of turtle, designed a habitat, and set it up appropriately, it is time to acquire the turtle. Starting with a captive-bred chelonian gives the novice turtle-keeper the greatest chance for success. Captive-born animals have been acclimated since birth to the presence of humans. This means that they are much less likely to be stressed by people and captive conditions, and stress is often a contributing factor in the death of wild-caught reptiles. Captive-born turtles are also less likely to be heavily parasitized, as they probably have not encountered as many infectious organisms as their counterparts in the wild. However, do not expect a captive-born animal to be free of parasites - they can be picked up from their habitats and from food items! Finally, buying captive-born turtles reduces stress on possibly endangered native populations.

Turtles can be obtained from many different sources. Professional and amateur breeders are increasing in number, making captive-bred turtles more readily available. These breeders often advertise in the various reptile-oriented magazines and in the classifieds sections of the larger herpetological society newsletters. These societies are another good source of turtles. In addition to providing the chance to meet local breeders, many societies have rescue programs for reptiles. Often you can adopt semi-aquatic turtles (especially red-eared sliders) for free or for a small fee. Adoptions help the turtle, your wallet, and the herp society, and I highly recommend it as an option. Reptile dealers usually have many of the more common turtle species available, and will ship them to the airport nearest you. These dealers carry a mix of wild-caught and captive-born individuals; the ratio varies from dealer to dealer. Finally, pet stores sometimes have turtles for sale - usually these are wild-caught adult turtles. Pet stores rarely carry hatchling turtles, as Federal law prohibits the sale of turtles with a shell length of less than four inches. The law was enacted in the early 1970's to prevent the widespread sale of hatchling red-eared sliders, due to fear of Salmonella poisoning through mis-handling of the turtles.

If possible, examine a number of turtles before deciding which one to purchase. Healthy semi-aquatic turtles have clear, bright eyes that are neither protruding nor sunken. The nostrils should be clear of any debris, and the turtle's breathing should be silent. When picking up the animal, take note of how it holds its head and legs. The turtle should be able to support the weight of its head, while its legs should not hang down limply. Most chelonians react swiftly to sudden motions or to being picked up, although this may depend on how tame the turtle has become. Finally, ask to feed the turtle; most healthy water turtles seem to be perpetually hungry!

The first thing a newly acquired turtle should receive is a thorough inspection by a veterinarian. Even if the turtle appears totally healthy, a checkup will make sure that no parasites are lurking undetected. Also, a visit to the vet with a healthy turtle allows the turtle-keeper a chance to inspect the vet, too. It is much better to learn that the vet you've chosen isn't comfortable with reptiles when your turtle is healthy than to discover that fact during a life-threatening emergency! Finally, the initial visit gives the vet a chance to see the turtle when healthy; this knowledge can be invaluable later if the turtle becomes ill.

New turtles should be left alone for a while, to allow them to become acclimated to their new home. They should be fed every other day, in quantities that can be consumed in a few minutes. Overfeeding leads to too-rapid growth and obesity, both potentially harmful to your turtle. Depending on the species, a varied diet of vegetables, insects and earthworms should be provided. Alternately, a prepared food, such as Tetra's ReptoMin or Wardley's Reptile Ten, can be offered. Feeding turtles in a separate container reduces the amount of food debris in the water, increasing the time between water changes.

This article can only give potential turtle-keepers a push in the right direction. Further reading and preparation will greatly increase your chances of success. Potential keepers should ask themselves some tough questions before obtaining a turtle. Are you willing to do the proper research to decide which turtle would be appropriate? Can you provide the correct care and habitat for that turtle? Will you be able to care for the turtle for years, perhaps decades, to come? If the answers to these questions are "yes", then turtle-keeping can provide you with many years of enjoyment.

Recommended Reading/References
Ernst, Carl H. and Barbour, Roger W., Turtles of the World, Smithsonian Institution Press, 1989.

Ernst, Carl H., Lovich and Barbour, Roger W., Turtles of the United States and Canada, Smithsonian Institution Press, 1996.

de Vosjoli, Philippe, The General Care and Maintenance of Red-eared Sliders and other Popular Freshwater Turtles, Advanced Vivarium Systems, 1992.

Highfield, Andy C., Practical Encyclopedia of Keeping and Breeding Tortoises and Freshwater Turtles, Carapace Press, 1996.

Pritchard, Peter C. H., Encyclopedia of Turtles, TFH Publications, Inc., 1979.

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This article copyright © 1997 by David T. Kirkpatrick. Originally published in Reptiles USA Annual 1998, pg. 90-91.

Reprinting of this article for non-profit purposes is permitted provided that it is unaltered and appropriate attribution, including copyright information, is included. Please notify the author of any reprinting.

Now if you decide that you want to keep a terrestrial species...

http://www.tortoise.org/general/descare.html

Since your inquiry was specifically referenced towards a 10 gallon aquarium, I should tell you that that would be adequate as temporary housing for MOST species, only as they young...


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## acestro

excellent reply CK, hope it's read by all curious about turtles as pets!


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## lemmywinks

you could probly get a small box turtle for one. but if you could go bigger that would be better.


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## Innes

garybusey said:


> Any of Innes SUPER DUPER links would be great too!











lol heres a not very handy link
heres a handy link
heres another handy link
heres another handy link
heres another handy link
heres another handy link
heres another handy link


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## Death in #'s

dam that a good read 
im looking into musk turtles right now

can they be kept together
or are they terrortorial


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## aaron07_20

I used to keep razorback musk turtles, and omg they are so fun to keep. I think a ten gallon will be good enough. They get to be six inches but they dont move that much, except for when you feed them. When I had my razorback in a ten gallon I put a whole lot of thick rocky sand in there, I made it very high so my turtle could go sit in the mud and the "shore", I also made it high so my filter could reach the water. They love earthworms and nightcrawlers. Also, in your aquarium where the turtle will be able to sit in the water, it should be about 4-5 inches deep, even less. Try to put a little mud on top of the sand, you could even make it all mud. musk turtles like to sit in mud in shallow water. They also like to be able to get out of the water and bask. Good Luck! Musk Turtles are great turtles, good choice!

Edit: A musk turtle will be ok for a year or two in a 10g, but will outgrow the aquarium. You should have atleast a 30 gallon for life.


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## aaron07_20

If you ever consider getting a box turtle, try to keep them outside, they hate to be inside. Just make a little pen using chicken wire or wood. I used wood. Also, I made a underground cave for my ornate box turtle. I got a long bucket, dug a whole slightly larger then the width of the bucket, put the bucket in the ground horizontally, and buried it, but of course I left an opening. You can do it that way or make it even longer by using chicken wire to hold up dirt so your turtle can protect its self from raccoons. In the winter you may want to put the box turtle in a big wide container. What I did is used a cheap huge wide laundry basket from the dollar store, used a UV lamp so he could still grown, put some dirt and mulch in their, and kept him warm till spring. You can feed them things such as romaine lettuce, bananas, almost any fruit, zuchinni, and many more. Avoid fatty foods such as lunchmeat, avoid any lettuce except romaina, other kinds have no Vitamina and minerals the turtles need. Whatever you do avoid spinnach. It is poisonous to box turtles. Good luck!!









P.S. Make whatever pen that wont let the box turtle get out, avoid anything sharp. Try to put a shallow bowl of water in their, refilling everyday. put some of the bowl underground so the box turtle can easily drink.


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## aaron07_20

Oh wait..I wasnt even talking to the poster of this thread..lol..well thats for you "death in #'s"


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## benefit

I dont know of any species of turtles that stay small enough to be housed in a 10 gallon for life. Your best bet is to go with a smaller species of mud or musk turtles. A 20 gallon would be minimum IMO on a smaller species of these turtles. I have kept all my turtle tanks bare-bottom with floating plants that they can rest in near the surface. Driftwood or a large flat rock works well also. They dont always enjoy "basking" completely out of the water but if you provide them with something very close to the surface you will find that they enjoy sitting there for hours with their legs sprawled out under the light (heat/uvb). I find that my musk turtle is very active despite what aaron07_20 said and is walking around the tank all day and always begging and splashing for food every time i enter the room.


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## CrocKeeper

> You can feed them things such as romaine lettuce, bananas, almost any fruit, zuchinni, and many more. Avoid fatty foods such as lunchmeat, avoid any lettuce except romaina, other kinds have no Vitamina and minerals the turtles need. Whatever you do avoid spinnach. It is poisonous to box turtles.


The above statement is so full of problems that I do not even know where to begin.......

romaine lettuce is next to iceburg lettuec in nutritional value, red-leaf and green -leaf varieties are more nutritious, but aside from that, lettuce is not a good staple, as they need much more fibrous greens, and as they are not frugivores, a heavy fruit diet will lead to other dietary problems and dehydration due to excessive water loss through diarrhea.


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## Death in #'s

CrocKeeper said:


> You can feed them things such as romaine lettuce, bananas, almost any fruit, zuchinni, and many more. Avoid fatty foods such as lunchmeat, avoid any lettuce except romaina, other kinds have no Vitamina and minerals the turtles need. Whatever you do avoid spinnach. It is poisonous to box turtles.
> 
> 
> 
> The above statement is so full of problems that I do not even know where to begin.......
> 
> romaine lettuce is next to iceburg lettuec in nutritional value, red-leaf and green -leaf varieties are more nutritious, but aside from that, lettuce is not a good staple, as they need much more fibrous greens, and as they are not frugivores, a heavy fruit diet will lead to other dietary problems and dehydration due to excessive water loss through diarrhea.
Click to expand...









thanks croc and aaron07_20
so croc what type of foods should i feed them


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## aaron07_20

Croc, what you said is very very very untrue. Romaine is not next to iceburg. Do some research, no matter what box turtle site you go to they will most likely tell you romaine is great. I never aid all fruit either. You should keep a blacned diet or like you said (I think) they could get sick.


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## aaron07_20

If you get a musk turtle te size of a 50 cent piece, he sould last in a 10g for about 2-3 years, maybe more, then you will need atleast a 20 gallon, preferably 30.


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## aaron07_20

Box turtles can also eat cat food.


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## aaron07_20

One more thing, if you get box turtles, you should buy vitamins to sprinkle on the food. What I did, I filled the vitamin conatiner with little wormy magget things, so the maggets were covered with vitamins, I stuck the container in the fridge and the magget things lived for a year and a half, in a cold fridge. Give them a magget once a weak (with vitamins) as a treat. Maggety wormy things (not earthworms) dont have much nutrition at all, but just coat them with vitamins. In 6 years, when the secadas are back (them big bugs that look like locusts) feed your box turtles those. They love them. I have my box turtle pen outside, the secadas used to sit on my turtles shell, my turtle would put his neck back as far as he could and eat them. It was gross, their white guts went everywhere!


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## renderstream

The most hardy/easy turtle to care for is probably the red eared slider. They are widely available, and very cheap.

Babies are the size of a quarter, and can grow to about 13 Inches, so a 10 gallon will not house them forever. However, it should be fine for a few months - a year.

For more information on turtles visit: http://www.turtleforum.com


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## CrocKeeper

> Croc, what you said is very very very untrue. Romaine is not next to iceburg. Do some research, no matter what box turtle site you go to they will most likely tell you romaine is great. I never aid all fruit either. You should keep a blacned diet or like you said (I think) they could get sick.


aaron...
I have done the research. I have also been keeping and breeding sveral chelonian species since the late 70's. Then I pursued it further with the culmination of a M.S., ( I did not prusue a P.h.D.).... Specifically my main areas of focus are venomous taxa and crocodilians, but all herpetofauna occupy VOLUMES of my time, in breeding, research and education efforts both domestically and internationally.


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## aaron07_20

I am absolutely postive you are wrong.


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## lemmywinks

i always thought that romaine was nutritious too.... but crockeeper is the expert on this type of stuff and he knows what is good and what isnt.


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## CrocKeeper

Romaine is more nutritious than iceburg, so are all other leafy lettuces, *but not by much*..that is the problem...lettuce is not a natural food source. grasses ar much better, as are broad leafed weeds such as dandelion...

The nutritional value of lettuce varies with the variety. Lettuce in general provides small amounts of dietary fiber, some carbohydrates, a little protein and a trace of fat. Its most important nutrients are vitamin A and potassium. The vitamin A comes from beta carotene, whose yellow-orange is hidden by green chlorophyll pigments. Beta carotene, of course, is converted to vitamin A in the human body. The darker green, the more beta carotene.

According to the American Cancer Institute and the American Cancer Society, foods rich in vitamin A and C (antioxidants) offer protection against some forms of cancer. Along with other phytochemical, antioxidants reduce the risk of cancer of the respiratory system and intestinal tract.

Lettuce, except iceberg, is also a *moderately* good source of vitamin C, calcium, iron and copper. The spine and ribs provide dietary fiber, while vitamins and minerals are concentrated in the delicate leaf portion.

Nutrition Facts for all lettuce except iceburg (One cup raw leaf lettuce, chopped)

Calories 9
Dietary Fiber 1.3 
Protein 1 gram
Carbohydrates 1.34 grams
Vitamin A 1456 IU
Vitamin C 13.44
Calcium 20.16
Iron 0.62
Potassium 162.4 mg


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## Kory

I love it when kid's try and tell experts they are wrong.


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## Death in #'s

thanks croc
thats a lot of good info on lettuce
so they should stick to feeding them weeds like dandelions
if u ant to give them any greens


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## aaron07_20

uuhh Im not a kid. I have years and years of experience with water turtles, box turtles, and tortoises. Romaine is not the most nutritous food but it is good for turtles. No matter what you feed the, you should sprinkle turtle vitamins on the food. (A *********** you can buy from the pet store, cost about 3$, I think.) Just because "CrocKeeper" copys pages of information from the internet and gives it to people does not mean he is a expert.


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## aaron07_20

Well Death in #s make sure you feed your turtles things like fruit and zuchinni, too. Like I said try to sprinkle vitamins on the food.


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## lemmywinks

aaron07_20 said:


> uuhh Im not a kid. I have years and years of experience with water turtles, box turtles, and tortoises. Romaine is not the most nutritous food but it is good for turtles. No matter what you feed the, you should sprinkle turtle vitamins on the food. (A *********** you can buy from the pet store, cost about 3$, I think.) Just because "CrocKeeper" copys pages of information from the internet and gives it to people does not mean he is a expert.


crockeeper not an expert ....:laugh: you really havnt been on this site very long have you. crockeeper probly knows the most about herp than enybody else on this whole site.


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## indecisive

aaron07_20 said:


> uuhh Im not a kid. I have years and years of experience with water turtles, box turtles, and tortoises. Romaine is not the most nutritous food but it is good for turtles. No matter what you feed the, you should sprinkle turtle vitamins on the food. (A *********** you can buy from the pet store, cost about 3$, I think.) Just because "CrocKeeper" copys pages of information from the internet and gives it to people does not mean he is a expert.


 Dude, dont even bother,,,he is an expert, and if your going to try at least site your sources


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