# Alot of plants?



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Would it be good to have alot of plants in my tank or no?

I had heard from numerous members that plants help with nitrates alot so if I have alot of plants that would be good wouldnt it?

I have a problem with the 5 plants I have now in my tank and they wont grow, maybe its cause of my nitrates? So If I add more plants that would break down my nitrates wouldnt it?

Were do you get some awesome plants for your tank?


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Unless you have a fish that prefers open water and for whom plants stress them out, I think plants are the single greatest thing you can add to a tank to help your fish stay healthy. Aside from the excellent filtration afforded by plants, the plants and fish interact hormonally which leads to a more natural environment. As well, it really can't be emhasized enough that plants provide a level of filtration that is not possible through any other means. In my heavily planted rhom tank I don't vacuum the gravel yet am at a point that my plants are suffering a nitrogen deficiency because they are so effective at removing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Water quality could not be better, I'd advise anyone to give it a shot.

If your plants aren't growing, I'd point a finger at your lighting. Plants will grow discolored, distorted and unhealthy with improper nutrients, but they will still grow. If they aren't growing, you might need more light.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Unless you have a fish that prefers open water and for whom plants stress them out, I think plants are the single greatest thing you can add to a tank to help your fish stay healthy. Aside from the excellent filtration afforded by plants, the plants and fish interact hormonally which leads to a more natural environment. As well, it really can't be emhasized enough that plants provide a level of filtration that is not possible through any other means. In my heavily planted rhom tank I don't vacuum the gravel yet am at a point that my plants are suffering a nitrogen deficiency because they are so effective at removing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Water quality could not be better, I'd advise anyone to give it a shot.
> 
> If your plants aren't growing, I'd point a finger at your lighting. Plants will grow discolored, distorted and unhealthy with improper nutrients, but they will still grow. If they aren't growing, you might need more light.
> [snapback]881790[/snapback]​


Where can I get some nice aquatic plants or order online or whatever and where ever I can get them at?


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

And eltwitcho I think you are one of the best members ive ever met I think you should be MOTM every month. You are awesome, you helped me out so much already and ive only been a member since January. Thank you very much.


----------



## jonscilz (Dec 2, 2004)

like twich said... plants are great for water quality and a natural environment for your fist. but not only that, they look awesome compared to just about anything else you can get for decor! im just getting into planting heavily but ive had a few live plants here and there for a while and youll be surprised how much a single plant can add to your overall look.

i just made a purchase from: http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/ if you were interested in buying online. they have a pretty good selection and i got what i ordered for pretty cheap compared to pet store prices. im sure there may be better sites you could just google search as well. other then that you can just go to a halfway decent fish store and they should have some live plants as well. just be sure to have enough lighting as twitch said and make sure you dont get a difficult plant to keep if you dont have the proper substrate or nutrition. most swords are pretty easy and require bottom line nutrition and care. good luck!


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks alot dude









As for plants, I'd expect you can find most of the common ones at your lfs. A general trick I use that is _mostly_ effective is I look at the light they use above their plants to see if it would work in my tank. If it's under a single fluorescent strip light and surviving, I usually consider it good to go and pick it up. If it's under super bright metal halides, I leave it alone. It's less effective than researching what plants require what requirements, but it's alot easier and less overwhelming when you're shopping for plants.

Some suggestions are to DEFINATELY get at least one kind of anubias, they're super easy to grow, look nice and mine seems to sprout a new leaf every few days or so. Also to consider are "pygmy chain swords" as this is my favorite plant by far. I bought one that had a runner on it (little shoot that new plants grow from) 3 weeks ago which fell off. I planted the runner and it grew into three plants, and it also spawned another runner which grew into three other respective plants. I started with one, I now have seven of these things







I've got 2 watts per gallon of lighting on my tank so they might not be a super low light plant, but I can tell you that anubias definately are, and they come in a variety of shapes and sizes that you should be able to find some that work in your tank. Just plant the roots and keep the rhizome above the gravel (you'll know what the rhizome is when you see the roots, it's the bulky green part the leaves shoot out of) and you'll have a healthy plant.

As for mail order, I really don't know for sure, I've never mail ordered plants before. A google search might be useful, just don't let yourself get carried away buying a whole ton of plants because the website says so, buy a few to start with and they'll reproduce and fill your tank out eventually, all the while you'll get better at growing the plants.

And thanks again for the kind words


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Well on my tank the light is sitting on some lexan plastic covers that are about a 1/4 inch thick so the light is going through the plastic first. I didnt know if you want that or not?

Like I was saying i have some plants but they wont grow I had them in my 55 and they grew great but when I moveed them to my 125 I used the lighting off the 55 cause i didnt have any lighting for that tank. Does that make a difference? I am using a 55 setup with an aquaglow and one more 29 gallon light strip with an aquaglo over my plants as well. What are your comments on that?


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

And what would you recommend for lighting in my 125 gallon tank also? Cause I have no clue about lighting, Im using the one strip I stole off of my 55 along time ago, but my 55 had no problems growing plants


----------



## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

***


----------



## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

Just Kidding Honey...I Love You Slimanese! Congrats On The Baby Girl!


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Slim said:


> And what would you recommend for lighting in my 125 gallon tank also? Cause I have no clue about lighting, Im using the one strip I stole off of my 55 along time ago, but my 55 had no problems growing plants
> [snapback]882693[/snapback]​


I wouldn't think a single strip is going to be enough light. How long is your 125, 6 feet? I'll let you in a little secret that people seem to overlook and end up spending 3 or 4 times what they need to, Home Depot Double Strip Shop Lights. Or if you don't like the look of those, any double strip fluorescent fixture will work. You'll end up spending 20-30 bucks instead of a few hundred like they charge for the lfs lights, and those are no different. They come in a variety of bulb diameters, T8, T10, T12 being the ones you're most likely to come across. Bulb diameter doesn't make much difference as the same bulb in the same type of fixture but in a slightly different diameter will still put out the same quality lighting. I believe the narrower bulbs (T12) run a bit cooler though, but don't quote me on that. Once you buy a fixture to match your tank (if you can't find a 6 foot fixture, two 3 foot fixtures will work nicely) just buy the corresponding bulb diamater for your fixture that is labelled "plant and aquarium". Most brands that I know of that make fluorescent bulbs offer a Plant and Aquarium bulb and they've been working great on my tank. Bulbs are something like 3 dollars as well, instead of 30 at the lfs. Set your lights on a timer (I use 11 hours) and you are set.

The plastic shouldn't make a big difference I would think, but I really don't know for sure. My lights go through a glass panel and I have no issues.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

I should have listened to Faded all these years. He bought a bunch of shop lights for his tank and told me to do the same but i never listened. Im an idiot and iim gonna go buy some this weekend, hopefully that helps out alot. So what you saying is that i need at least 2.5 watts per gallon in my tank? If so I need 320 watts of light in my tank? Where do I get bulbs like that?

Is there anyway to over light your plants? or tank for that matter?

Is alot of light good for Piranha?
or does it even bother them at all?

What were you talking about putting down before the rock? I need a name so I can go buy some. It was to help the plants root or whatever?

and I plan on taking my UGF(undergravel filter) out this weekend I heard its very bad for P's.

I just need someone to come to my home for like the weekend and help me fix whatever is wrong with my tank so I canget it going right. LOL Once again thanks eltwitcho and hope to hear from you on another reply


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Slim said:


> I should have listened to Faded all these years. He bought a bunch of shop lights for his tank and told me to do the same but i never listened. Im an idiot and iim gonna go buy some this weekend, hopefully that helps out alot. So what you saying is that i need at least 2.5 watts per gallon in my tank? If so I need 320 watts of light in my tank? Where do I get bulbs like that?
> [snapback]882747[/snapback]​


I don't think you'll need that much, just have two bulbs over the whole tank. So if you have two lights, 4 bulbs total. 1 light, 2 bulbs, you get the picture. If your tank is really wide or really tall you might need aditional lighting, but I doubt it.



Slim said:


> Is there anyway to over light your plants? or tank for that matter?


Yeah with really powerful metal halides or power compacts. Trust me, you won't do it with fluorescent lights. If you go really heavy on the fluoros MAYBE really low lights may melt, but I doubt it.



Slim said:


> Is alot of light good for Piranha?
> or does it even bother them at all?
> [snapback]882747[/snapback]​


I imagine it might bother them at first, my reds weren't big fans of the light anytime I put it on, but there are alot of members who have reds in brightly lit planted tanks. My rhom is in a planted tank with tons of light, doesn't change his behavior one bit. It may take a little while for your fish to get settled in to the brighter lighting, but more likely than not they'll get used to it pretty quickly. I think having a light on a timer plays a big part in this as they get used to the idea of lights coming on at a particular time and instead of seeming "bright" it just seems "normal". The fish will appreciate the plants as well as plants are great at improving your fish's health.



Slim said:


> What were you talking about putting down before the rock? I need a name so I can go buy some. It was to help the plants root or whatever?
> 
> [snapback]882747[/snapback]​


I don't know if I ever mentioned something like that, I might have. Alot of people mix fluorite with gravel, or laterite with gravel, you can find either in your pet store. I use just plain gravel but laterite and fluorite mixed with gravel is supposedly much better. I don't have any personal experience to back that up though. I do however use seachem fluorish gravel bed conditioner tabs, I put a tab into the gravel at the base of all my plants which supposedly helps them get nutrients.



Slim said:


> I just need someone to come to my home for like the weekend and help me fix whatever is wrong with my tank so I canget it going right. LOL Once again thanks eltwitcho and hope to hear from you on another reply
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At first it's overhwelming, but it gets alot easier. This is my first planted tank as well and my plants aren't 100% healthy looking, there's a dead leaf here and there but they're growing nonetheless and it's really way easier than you'd think.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Well my tank is a DIY 5 foot long by 20 inches deep by 24 inches wide. How much light do you recommend for that? I was thinking 2 small ones to take up the whole tank with a total of 4 bulbs but smaller so that the lights together take up the whole length of my tank.

What kind of bulbs should I use if not flouricents?

I love you Eltwitcho.

Slim


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Nope, use fluorescents, sorry if it seemed like I said otherwise. Twenty inches deep and 24 inches wide is alot of space for the light to difuse over, but I still think two strips along the length of the tank would work. I don't know of any 5 foot light fixtures though, you could use a 4 foot fixture and focus on the center (only really leaving 6 inches uncovered on each side, though fluorescents are a bit dimmer in the corners to start with) or use a three foot fixture and a two foot fixture to take up the length of the tank like you mentioned. Only thing I'm not entirely sure about is wether two strips is enough light for how wide and deep your tank is. Yet another option might be to get two four foot fixtures and run them parallel which will definately provide ample light in the center and probably not make the corners appear too dark because the light will diffuse over there. It's really up to you how you want to set it up.

Then there are power compact systems and metal halides which are a good deal more expensive, but I personally would stick with fluorescents until you know for sure you want to do the whole planted tank thing. Just get some "Plant and Aquarium" bulbs and you'll be good, you can find them anywhere that sells fluorescent bulbs (they're that common).


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Nope, use fluorescents, sorry if it seemed like I said otherwise. Twenty inches deep and 24 inches wide is alot of space for the light to difuse over, but I still think two strips along the length of the tank would work. I don't know of any 5 foot light fixtures though, you could use a 4 foot fixture and focus on the center (only really leaving 6 inches uncovered on each side, though fluorescents are a bit dimmer in the corners to start with) or use a three foot fixture and a two foot fixture to take up the length of the tank like you mentioned. Only thing I'm not entirely sure about is wether two strips is enough light for how wide and deep your tank is. Yet another option might be to get two four foot fixtures and run them parallel which will definately provide ample light in the center and probably not make the corners appear too dark because the light will diffuse over there. It's really up to you how you want to set it up.
> 
> Then there are power compact systems and metal halides which are a good deal more expensive, but I personally would stick with fluorescents until you know for sure you want to do the whole planted tank thing. Just get some "Plant and Aquarium" bulbs and you'll be good, you can find them anywhere that sells fluorescent bulbs (they're that common).
> [snapback]884162[/snapback]​


Ya they have them at walmart and sh*t like that I have owned them before. But you said about 2 watts pergallon or somebody I thought it was you but maybe not. I was reading this page tinkerbell had sent me on plants to be online and they gave how much light each plant needed by watts and most were 2.5-3 watts per gallon. 125 x 2.5= 312.5 watts total for my tank. Do you think I need that much?
And Ya I was planning on going with a planted tank because you recommened it and maybe that the only tue way to get my water parameters right cause they wont work for me.


----------



## spree_rider (Mar 20, 2004)

You want about 2wpg to grow plants that require a medium to high lighting, if you want to grow high to very high you need 3wpg, if you want low light you need at least 1.5wpg, 
if you want to learn more about plants subscribe to this list
http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
, these people know way too much about plants and fish. 
but i would go with at least 2wpg if you want it really lush, also co2 would make it alot better, you can find co2 tanks and valves online. 
MH lights would be too bright for piranha i think but shouldent be too bright for high light plants as i know many people who use them on 30g planted tanks.


----------



## Soldat (Aug 28, 2004)

Very successful plant keepers with harder plants have tons of lighting. I'm not saying that this is set in stone. Most of these people on this site seem to be successful and have plenty of lighting. This guy for instance:Planted Tank

Check out the amount of light he's using. I'm starting a planted tank and am only going to use my regular old dual shop light with plant and aquarium bulbs. I know nearly nothing about plants, but I have been looking around for awhile today. If standard lighting works for elTwitcho, then I'm willing to try it. He's already helped as much as possible. It's your opinion if you want to go crazy with the lighting. Good Luck, Kevin


----------

