# My Flowerhorns...



## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

I bought another Flowerhorn (I named Hatred) about a half year ago (?)  Can't exactly remember now, but about then.

He's about 5-1/2 - 6 inches now. I have him in a 75G with my 7-1/2 inch Midas.

The problem I have with him is that I can't put anyhting in the aquarium, be it my hand, my Python (cleaning, not the snake) or my net.

He absolutely goes beserk. I mean out of the norm of other cichlids. My bigger FH does the same thing, but I just chalked it up to an overly aggressive fish, but my smaller FH is the same way.

When I put the net in there he immediately flies over and attacks it. He'll bite it and shake his head and try to take it out of my hands. 
Today I let go of it to see what he would do, and he took it and started slamming it against the glass and I mean HARD! Which isn't bad if the net was all I worried about, but the mesh wasn't looking like it was protecting my poor FH too well. Then he kept doing dive bombs from the top to the bottom of the tank into the gravel trying to do whatever. I guess the net wasn't dead enough?

He dove up out of the water at me last week when I was opening it up to feed him.

He also goes out and out ballistic when my dog walks by. He doesn't do it when I do, but if she does he'll keep ramming the glass like he's trying to break it. I mean, are FH's like the dumbest fish there are? He has to know where the glass is but he just never even slows down until he slams into it. Kind of like a P in fright mode.

Soooo, all of these events have prompted me to ask for some advice before he kills himself. The other FH is almost as bad as Hatred but not often like he does and definately not as bad.

I need to get into the tank everyday to clean up waste with the net, not to mention I do twice weekly water changes. I can handle the pythin being attacked but what about the nets? I'm sick of buying 2-3 nets a week.

I've had cichlids for 25 years and have never been through anything like this before. Even at the stage when RD's and Midas turn psycho. It just can't even compare to thse 2 FH's. They're going to end up killing themselves, so please help.

Does anyone with FH's do anything to calm them down?


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

I know just how u feel man, my pure midas does the same thing. I can't do a water change without having my friend hold it back with a net, it attacks that as well. Jumps out of the water trying to bite me everytime i open the lid. Now as much as a pain in the ass as it can be...you have to admit u love it









Mark


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

Yea, I absolutely love the agressiveness. I would only love it if he didn't ram the glass so hard after my dog. I'm afraid he's going to end up killing himself or when he gets bigger, breaking the glass somehow? If that is possible I mean.

No, don't get me wrong. I LOVE fish that are badass. I just need to settle my 2 FH's down a bit. lol

Oh, and I hate buying nets every few days.

Is there anything you've tried, other than lowering the temp, that was successsful in mabe having him calm down a bit?


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

can you post a pic jor(i see you got your name back)


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## hydroshutter (Jan 12, 2003)

Whats your tank's temperature at?

If you lowered it to about 78 (if at 78, dont lower it). This might lower aggression.

.02


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

thePACK said:


> can you post a pic jor(i see you got your name back)


 Yea, I asked X for it back. Thanks Pack.

I don't have a camera, but the last week or so I've been asking some guys at work about digicams because there would be some cool pics.

It will take a while before I can afford one because there's too many bass tourney's I got planned thru October, but I have a 10" FH too and he's still pretty damn psycho, just not as bad as Hatred tho. So I'll do what I can since I'm sure this psychotic crap will last unless he goes brain dead.









I'm just really worried is all.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

hydroshutter said:


> Whats your tank's temperature at?
> 
> If you lowered it to about 78 (if at 78, dont lower it). This might lower aggression.
> 
> .02


 Thank you very much for the reply.

I got it at 80. FH's prefer it a few degrees higher, but I got a larger Midas in there so I figured 80 is best.

I did turn it down to 78 over a period of 5 days quite a while ago, but nothing changed so I turned it back up to 80.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

Please?

I mean this thread has had 40 hits since my last post.

I've had p's for 17 years now, and `I don't mean this as an insult at all, but, all I hear about at this forum is how bad p's are. So to me, that means someone else must know how to help me?

I am truly worried about my FH. Please help if you can.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

don't worry, flowerhorns are usually aggressive - its normal!!!!

you also have no need to be in the tank every day, you only need to do water changes every couple of weeks or whenever you feel it need being done, and you do not need to net out waste every day.

also if it is a real problem you can get a divider to seperate it from the part of the tank you are working on.

I'm sure many others here would love a FH just like yours


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

My RD was just as agressive like your FH until it bite/nudge my gfs hand and she smack it with a net and it was less agressive ever since.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

o snap its eric said:


> My RD was just as agressive like your FH until it bite/nudge my gfs hand and she smack it with a net and it was less agressive ever since.


 I couldn't do that tho. Not for something that is so instinctive to an animal. He doesn't mean to be mean, he's only protecting the territory he thinks is his. But thank you very much for your reply. :smile:



> don't worry, flowerhorns are usually aggressive - its normal!!!!
> 
> you also have no need to be in the tank every day, you only need to do water changes every couple of weeks or whenever you feel it need being done, and you do not need to net out waste every day.


Thanks for the reply, Innes.

I feel like with 2 cichlids that I do have to do a water change more than every 2 weeks. I understand what you guys are saying tho and I appreciate the help.

I know you guys all know more than me so I'm most definately not trying to debate or argue with you guys. I've just never had cichlids so mean and hateful as FH's until the last 3 years since I've kept FH's, so wanted to get some opinions.

I by no means think my ways are correct and final and will take all of your guy's opinions into account.

Thank you. :smile:


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Damnit I really need a flowerhorn.


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

Jor, I would do water changes every week with those two cichlids in there. I think you are going to have a hard time trying to mellow out that fh, I think that is just the way that it is going to be for life. Have fun with your killer









Mark


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Yeah man, you have to play up the hand of God. Put you hand in the tank and punch the flowerhorn. All it could do is nip you! Wear a pair of rubber gloves then PUNCH IT! It works with people who bite you....


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

garybusey said:


> Yeah man, you have to play up the hand of God. Put you hand in the tank and punch the flowerhorn. All it could do is nip you! Wear a pair of rubber gloves then PUNCH IT! It works with people who bite you....










That is so funny - but don't try it


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

Hey X.. i will hold one of the two i got untill you come to mrytal beach. You can take him home with you. Just have an empty tank ready for him cause he will kill everything!

you need to show those flowerhorn whos boss.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

Thanks for all the opinions guys.

I guess I'll have to live with it. Not that I don't like aggressive fish, I do, but I just worry about my bigger Midas.

Thanks again for all the help and opinions.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

BDKing57 said:


> Hey X.. i will hold one of the two i got untill you come to mrytal beach. You can take him home with you. Just have an empty tank ready for him cause he will kill everything!
> 
> you need to show those flowerhorn whos boss.


 how big a tank i need for one.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Xenon said:


> BDKing57 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey X.. i will hold one of the two i got untill you come to mrytal beach. You can take him home with you. Just have an empty tank ready for him cause he will kill everything!
> ...


55g should work fine, although I heard someone on predfish.net saying they're designed for even smaller tanks than that


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > BDKing57 said:
> ...


 Do you mean for a FH?


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

ok well some of them get BIGGG! im not sure how big these guys i got are going to get, but i know they had some 15 inch Jing Kangs in chinatown.. they were massive. A 40 breeder will take him far, but a 75 is best for life. They are gonna get 12 inches at least. Best thing about horns is you can keep them in a smaller tank then a standard fish of the same size. They even have the







e new compressed flowerhorns. They are ROUND and only get 8-10 inches... i will find some pictures, not available in the usa of course

oh yeah.. guess who got bit today while water changing lol Then the water was about 1/3 down and there was some food stuck to the top of the glass... one of my guys starts launching himself out of the water trying to bite the food off the glass


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Jor said:


> piranha45 said:
> 
> 
> > Xenon said:
> ...


 yes. seriously, go ask predfish cichlid forum, I distinctly recall someone saying it about 3 days ago


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> Jor said:
> 
> 
> > piranha45 said:
> ...


I believe you. I just wanted to know if FH was what you meant.

I've only had FH's for 3 years, so I'm very much a beginner on them, but I've never heard of a FH that could live his entire life in a 55G before.

Thanks for letting me know, tho.



> oh yeah.. guess who got bit today while water changing lol Then the water was about 1/3 down and there was some food stuck to the top of the glass... one of my guys starts launching himself out of the water trying to bite the food off the glass


haha! don't you just love those mean bastards?









I do, but very soon my Midas will hit his psycho stage and I might have to get rid of one of them.


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## SnowCichlid (Jan 10, 2003)

Flowerhorns grow very quickly in my experience, sh*t enough for about 10 fish, and become more and more aggresive as they age.
They can show some really nice colouration however


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)




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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

Innes said:


>


 Really. What kind of dumbass starts threads like this w/o access to a digicam!


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

if that is the case, scan some reguler pics in


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

Innes said:


> if that is the case, scan some reguler pics in


 Well, I didn't want to say this, but actually tonight my Midas (Elmer) has gone off.

I would have said something about it but just after I started this thread about hatred, I didn't think anyone would believe me, so I wasn't going to comment on it.

I used to think elmer was a male when I got him because, from the same batch, he was the biggest and most dominate in the tank.

For the last month or so, I have switched to thinking "he" was an elmet because he was such a puss.

He went off tonight a few hours ago and they locked lips and elmer royally kicked hatreds ass, and I mean in a huge way. He's got hatred scared and hiding in the top most dark corner. If hatred does anything but look up and decides to turn around and look at the rest of the tank, elmer is all over his ass and I mean bad.

Now elmer just spends 2-3 hours at a time fighting and biting his shadow in the glass. Even when I feed them. Elmer wants nothing to do with food, but he'll go after hatred to keep him in the corner, but will go right back to attacking his shadow in the glass and could really care less about the food.

I was wondering what would happen when elmer hit psycho stage, but I'll give it another week unless they fight constantly again.

Otherwise, hatred has to go back. I can't stand to see suffering.

This is so weird after I just started this thread about hatred. I should have waited one more day and not bothered everyone. I'm sorry guys.

I'm going to see if I can get someones video cam a from work, but I won't allow either fish to suffer or be sad. I just can't do it.


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## BiteMeNipMe (Apr 26, 2003)

when u said your fish was a flowerhorn which type were u referring to? There are so many types of flowerhorn w/ different temperament. These 'made in Malaysia' fish are best kept in solitary. Pics from common to freakier fh


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

BiteMeNipMe said:


> when u said your fish was a flowerhorn which type were u referring to? There are so many types of flowerhorn w/ different temperament. These 'made in Malaysia' fish are best kept in solitary. Pics from common to freakier fh


Noone knows for sure what their FH really is, but if I had to guess by looks alone, mine would be a trimac-midas- synspilum combo.

Thank you for replying. :smile:

Edited to get rid of IMG tags.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

BiteMeNipMe said:


> when u said your fish was a flowerhorn which type were u referring to? There are so many types of flowerhorn w/ different temperament. These 'made in Malaysia' fish are best kept in solitary. Pics from common to freakier fh


the first fish looks great

the 2nd fish is absolutely repulsive.

gets me wondering though how a 12" fish is supposed to fit in a 40g...


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

> gets me wondering though how a 12" fish is supposed to fit in a 40g...


12-15" fish.

That's why I asked if you meant FH that could live in a 55 for life earlier.

I didn't want to debate you because you were nice enough to relay info to me I've never heard before, so I let it go, but I think whoever said that at pred is on drugs. Honestly.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Jor said:


> > gets me wondering though how a 12" fish is supposed to fit in a 40g...
> 
> 
> 12-15" fish.
> ...


 he was referring to the conditions in which they are normally kept in. All the taiwanese or malaysians or whatever apparently keep and breed them in small tanks, just like goldfish. So the stunted goldfish parallel is what I'm thinking of...


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## BiteMeNipMe (Apr 26, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> the 2nd fish is absolutely repulsive.


 even more repulsive


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

oh, the horror...


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

HEHEEHEHE.. scoop of sherbert. I dont know about saying they cant kill anything... their aggression with other fish in the tank is much much higher. They are also almost always on the extreme end of aggresion of cichlids. I have never seen another fish but a flowerhorn beat the living crap out of a fish untill its dead and then continue to beat the dead fishes body in sumbission. This is completely different from the type of aggression that are piranhas show which is more of a survival type aggression. They kill when they must, lh and some other larger cichlids kill immediately because they are so territorial. They are just super interactive... i pet mine at times. I like them alot better then my pure breeds because i like their look. i understand that its totally a matter of taste.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

I'm not too sure about them not being able to kill anything.

I had one kill an rbp when I put him into the rbp's tank, within 20-30 mins of doing it. It was only a temporary place while I broke down a tank, but I look back 30 mins later and he was dive bombing the rbp into the gravel with it in his mouth and grinding him into it.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

In reference to the trimac-esque FHs, yes I can see that But I can't see how a fat clumsy amalgamation like the real ornamental ones could pose much of a threat.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> In reference to the trimac-esque FHs, yes I can see that But I can't see how a fat clumsy amalgamation like the real ornamental ones could pose much of a threat.


 Oh ok, I misunderstood you. Sorry bout that.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

a 40 breeder is bigger then a 55 when you consider the width... and honestly thats what the fish are kept in. only flowerhorns that are sub par will grow to big sizes. All the ones that are quality have stunted growth already in their genetics..they should be higher backs with bellies that stick out. vertically strechted not oval shape or horizontal. Im not saying keep a show fish in a 40 breeder, but you can certaintly keep one in there till you decide what you want to do with it.

here is what a high grade fry should look like now


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

ah, k, fascinating









I sure as hell wouldn't want one of the "quality" fish tho :sad:


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

> only flowerhorns that are sub par will grow to big sizes.


I didn't know that. I guess mines subpar because it looks more like a Midas and it will get big.

I don't like the way they good ones look tho. Kind of looks weird to me.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

If your buying malaysian flowerhorns you should know exactly the type you are buying. There are only 3 main types of flowerhorns.. Jin Kang, Jin Hua and everything else just falls under Lou Han. No one is the usa has Jin Huas yet really. They are the rainbow kings etc.. Malaysian farms will only take the top fry from each brood and release them for sale, so everything you get from there is going to be decent and everything will have a name, breed etc. The breeders they get the fish for command an astronomical price and are absolutely breathtaking. The problem is that people get these fish over here in the us and have them breed with another trimac or another flowerhorn and then you get all these junk lh broods that stores here sell that give the fish a bad name.Plus you dont know what you are buying, of course if you have a good eye you could always pick out a promising one. People get this common misconception that they look like trimacs. Only made in the usa lh look like trimacs anymore for the reasons mentioned above. The chinatown in philly has some very very nice JKs which i want to get buy. 120 dollars for 3-4 inchers. These guys are an insanely bright orange and yellow color.. now flowers and blood red eyes. If any of your are intresting in getting some real ones definately go through rareafishinado for starters. If you want to spend 500-3000 dollars for a top grade lou han then go to flowerhornusa.com if your not near philly, sanfran or newyork.

the ones that have more midas in them are actually the better ones. Some have to much red devil in them... they get a pointy snout elongated effect. You want a round tummy and sharp slant in the forhead.. shorter the body compared to the height the better because it gives it the squar look.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

i suppose its just personal taste, but seemings how you are a keeper of normal cichlids as well.... why would you want such a fish? It looks like a couple scoops of sherbet ice cream with a mouth. It can't be any more owner responsive than any other fish, it can't kill anything... Why not just settle for a freaking oranda goldfish?


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

I would actually think they would be more of a threat. The nuchal hump is a fighting weapon. The ones with the massive faces are the most aggressive. Wussy FH dont get nuchal humps... Although its based on numerous variables one of the most important is how nasty the fish is... ITs like a guy with a testosterone imbalance.. generally whos going to be having roid rages and throwing people around. I would say the big ornamental males are just completely intolerable... plus they are more adapted to tank life then a wild caught fish.


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## v4p0r (Aug 14, 2003)

Damn this thread is making me want a flowerhorn.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

Hey v4por, click the flowerhorn link in my signature... and you can learn all about them. They tolerate nothing and the price on good ones has come down.. you can get hooked up with a AAA grade Blue Dragon shipped to your door for under $300


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

must suppress.... smartassed anti-fh/pro-trimac quip.... rargh...


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

yup, flower horns and other cichlids are just bad ass fish :nod: . and the thing with them attacking you is normal.


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## Novato (Jan 25, 2004)

My 5 inch Red Devil beat the crap out of my 7 inch Flowerhorn after they knocked down the divider but now it is reinforced, but they still keep trying to get to each other, I guess my Flowerhorn didn't learn his lesson.


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