# Help Guys



## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Here are my latest number:

6/12/04
12:16 PM

Ammonia: 1
Nitrite: .35
Nitrate: 4
Temp: 81.5

I have been stuck at this for awhile now. I am adding 100 drops of pure ammonia daily, and this thing just won't budge.

Any ideas or advice? I am coming up on about a month now. I used Bio Spira, and pure ammonia.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

?????


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

just read that you used bio-spira. 100 drops of ammonia is way too much if you used bio-spira. bio spira is instant cycle. just add fish right after dumping in the packet. you may have killed off a lot of the bacteria that way. when i used it i just added my fish right after and had no problems since.

in any case, looks like the tank is almost done cycling. just cut down the ammonia deposit by half. so 50 drops instead of 100. though, 100 drops seems like a LOT. you're usually only supposed to use a couple capfuls.


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## BASSFISHERMAN (Feb 22, 2004)

right, I thought if you use biospira you dont have to wait.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

hyphen said:


> just read that you used bio-spira. 100 drops of ammonia is way too much if you used bio-spira. bio spira is instant cycle. just add fish right after dumping in the packet. you may have killed off a lot of the bacteria that way. when i used it i just added my fish right after and had no problems since.


 this makes absolutly no sence.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> Here are my latest number:
> 
> 6/12/04
> 12:16 PM
> ...


 when are you testing? befor you add ammonia? so you give the bacteria 24 hours befor you test to take out the Ammonia?

What do you have for filtration? you could have maxed all the surface area in your tank out..


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Yes, I always test before adding ammonia.

I have a fluval 304 with 3 tubs of biomax and 3 carbons.

I have a Penguin 170 Biowheel setup.

And I also have a filter on my powerhead.

What do you think P?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Peacock said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > just read that you used bio-spira. 100 drops of ammonia is way too much if you used bio-spira. bio spira is instant cycle. just add fish right after dumping in the packet. you may have killed off a lot of the bacteria that way. when i used it i just added my fish right after and had no problems since.
> ...


 sure it makes sense. bio-spira is for instant cycling. it holds beneficial bacteria inside of a fluid. the only reason you should use ammonia after adding bio-spira is to keep the tank cycled. if you use too much ammonia, you'll kill the bacteria instead of feeding it. at least, that's what i was told.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

hyphen said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > hyphen said:
> ...


 I dont believe the "Instant Cycle" sh*t works.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> Yes, I always test before adding ammonia.
> 
> I have a fluval 304 with 3 tubs of biomax and 3 carbons.
> 
> ...


 Have you ever tested and came up with 0 NH3 and 0 NO2?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Peacock said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > Peacock said:
> ...


 it worked for me








ARE YOU SAYING THAT I'M A LIAR?!


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

hyphen said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > hyphen said:
> ...


 ...............

wtf??

ahaha.


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## imachode (Jun 3, 2003)

please stop derailing the thread hyphen and say something helpful again.

i can't say for ceratin, but i wonder if the 3x carbon packs are somehow playing a role in this. that's the most carbon i've ever heard anyone use, and if you're cycling... you probably need zero carbon. and in peacocks opinion (correct me if i'm wrong), carbon isn't even needed. in this specific case, i'd have to agree with him.

also, regarding your testing, ideally you should be testing before and after any intervention (i.e. ammonia). waht would be helpful to me in diagnosing the problem is a graph of how ammonia, nitrite, nitrates have been changing over each day. it's easy to crank something out on excell. keep a tight record of things that could be of importance like water changes, equipment changes, additives, etc...


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

settle down chode. one post doesn't mean i'm "derailing the thread."

too many people have sticks up their asses.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

i dont think carbon has anything to do with this..

have you done a water change lately?


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

No, I have just added conditioned water as needed. No major changes, just added the bio spira and ammonia.

What the hell should I do at this point?


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> No, I have just added conditioned water as needed. No major changes, just added the bio spira and ammonia.
> 
> What the hell should I do at this point?


 well at any rate i think you have enough bacteria for the single P you want..

if you want to keep doing this then please proceed.. this is rather interesting and i would like to see what happens.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Im not going to risk it quite yet.

What can we do to turn this around. I am open to anything.

On a side note, our bettas we have in a lil 5 gallon spawned and we have a buncha beta frys swimming around!


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> Im not going to risk it quite yet.
> 
> What can we do to turn this around. I am open to anything.
> 
> On a side note, our bettas we have in a lil 5 gallon spawned and we have a buncha beta frys swimming around!


 after thinking about this.. it makes sence..

keep going at the same rate.. try a couple more days... then tell me what happens. BWT- congratz with the bettas!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

6/16/04
12:19 AM
PH: 6.9
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 2
Nitrate: 4
Temp: 81.5

Hmmm what do you think about these numbers? I did these, and then added ammonia. Lets see if it is similar tomoro. Weird thing is, it seems like the Nitrates were very borderline color wise on the test. Another weird thing is my Nitrites are going back up again since the ammonia dropping to zero.

For reference here is my log:

http://www.virtualdesigns.com/water.htm


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

ok good..

test it tomorrow (24 hours).


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ammonia is now reading 1.5 after the daily dosing.

Lets see what we have in 24 hours. I think we only got a few more days yet.


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## imachode (Jun 3, 2003)

looking at your log, it's much easier to see where you are in the process. trending and context add much value to results from a single testing point. it looks like you're on your way to beign done in my opinion. GL and enjoy the bettas and the p!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ok here are my numbers now 24 hours later. Note the ammonia is not totally dead yet, but it's still down. It was about 1.5 after I added last night. also note the now jacked nitrate numbers. I retested just to be sure, and it was 80 both times. I am going to add my daily 150 drops, and we'll see what happens this time.

Todays numbers:

Date: 6/17/04
Time: 2:06 AM
pH: 6.9
Ammonia: .40
Nitrite: 2
Nitrate: 80
Temp: 81.3

http://www.virtualdesigns.com/water.htm


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

good. keep it going.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

doctorvtec,
you are definately doing well in your cycling process just remain patient as the others have said. I remember you saying that you used conditioned water. Certain water conditioners can kill the bio spira, so I have been told by a local fish store owner. Maybe the conditioners in the water killed the bio spira. I personally haven't had bio spira work for me, so I don't believe in the instant cycling process, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

Joe


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Hey guys. Check my newest number and let me know what you think I should do.

I am going to add 100 drops of ammonia tonight. I am cutting it back because I have a beta in there.

How do you think it's going?


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Genin said:


> doctorvtec,
> you are definately doing well in your cycling process just remain patient as the others have said. I remember you saying that you used conditioned water. Certain water conditioners can kill the bio spira, so I have been told by a local fish store owner. Maybe the conditioners in the water killed the bio spira. I personally haven't had bio spira work for me, so I don't believe in the instant cycling process, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
> 
> Joe


 bio spira is the Name of a product which supposibly contains LIVING Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter bacteria. i dont think it works.

Common fish "Declorinater" does not harm the nitrifyers.. your LFS guy is wrong.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

good work Vtec.


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