# MR HARLEY: WHY WAS HE BANNED???



## phishin06 (Jun 11, 2003)

I havent been on here very much recently...but he was a cool guy and helped out alot. I just read in another thread that he was banned? Anyone know the reason??? Thanks!


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

I didn't know he was banned.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

scrappydoo said:


> I didn't know he was banned.


I think he is just pimpin on his boat


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## furious piranha (Mar 22, 2005)

he got banned???? prob bc he got that bad ass frickin boat dude lol


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

I'm guessing he's not playing nice again.
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...opic=117443&hl=


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...c=117443&st=30/

His last post before being suspended is at the bottom of that thread.

Edit: scrappy beat me to it.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Let's call it a tie. They're both posted at 09:02.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

this was his second ban, hopefully this one is permanent. site is better off without him threatening everyone all the time.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

G23.40SW said:


> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...c=117443&st=30/
> 
> His last post before being suspended is at the bottom of that thread.
> 
> Edit: scrappy beat me to it.


And then picture dozens of threads with more or less the same input, a 2 year history of being on zero tolerance and still slipping up, several "one last chance and that's it" that he blew and well, the inevitable happened.

It's too bad, he really had his moments where he was an awesome dude and a great contribution to the site, but he couldn't distance himself from being a dick to some people like it would never catch up with him. It did.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Theres alotta people I rather see banned than him...


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Gordeez said:


> Theres alotta people I rather see banned than him...


Trust me man, it was a hard decision. Harley can be a great member and good guy but he just made too many mistakes. Like twitch said, he had quite a few issues/situations/conflicts with more than enough warnings, zero tolernace, suspensions, bans, etc. He had times where he was one of the best members on the site with all the information he had possessed, but then there were too many times a situation would arise and he didn't handle himself properly. I don't want to say much more on Harley, he was a good guy to talk to and wish he was still part of the community, but like they say "he did this to himself."


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## Piranha King (Nov 28, 2002)

elTwitcho said:


> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...c=117443&st=30/
> 
> His last post before being suspended is at the bottom of that thread.
> 
> Edit: scrappy beat me to it.


And then picture dozens of threads with more or less the same input, a 2 year history of being on zero tolerance and still slipping up, several "one last chance and that's it" that he blew and well, the inevitable happened.

It's too bad, he really had his moments where he was an awesome dude and a great contribution to the site, but he couldn't distance himself from being a dick to some people like it would never catch up with him. It did.
[/quote]
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
wes


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

n if u got a glass jaw, u better watch ur mouth.. cuz ill break yo face!

lol


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Edited - Mike gave a perfect explanation (see next post)


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Well I prefer not to speak of such matters publicly but since this was a prominent member I suppose I will bite. This site was very fortunate to have a person like Craig around for the years he was here. In that time I would say I gained an online friend and a brother in the hobby. I too was sad to see him go.

The Member Advisory Board, elected by you, now has the responsiblity in deciding the fates of rule-breaking members. However, it is up to the staff to enforce the rules of the site and bring rule breakers before the board. I did suspend Craig and bring him before the MAB to figure out what to do with him. I have to say that decision was not easy.... however it had to be done.

For over two years I have invested time and patience in talking with Craig and pleading with him to change the more destructive aspects of his online persona. He is a perfect example of a guy that can be awesome and brilliant one minute, then simply ruin it the next minute through needless threats, bashing, and various forms of "e-thugging". Craig is someone who always thought someone was attempting to talk bad to him on the site, so he would always REACT.... and REACT hard. Other times he would bash new or inexperienced members out of the blue for not having the amount of knowledge he had after a few years in the hobby. For these and other reasons, Craig lined up an impressive array of warnings, temporary suspensions, and "temporary" banishments. All the while I attempted to work with him so that he could understand where I saw a problem with his behavior on the site.... and from his end I promised to be more vigilant with people he saw as attacking him.

The last incident on this site involved Craig issuing physical THREATS to other members via the board and PM. This is not the first time he has done this. At the time I had to take a deep hard look at the situation and realize that part of me, in a way was treating him differently because he was a long time, high profile member. If a member joined up and acted the same way he did in his first 20 posts, we probably wouldnt think twice about giving him his walking papers and calling it a day.

I quickly realized that could not go on any further. We have a relatively small set of rules here, and a system of enforcing them. *And EVERYONE, all members, new and old, must be held accountable for their actions. * Craig could no longer be an exception. I can no longer play favorites.

With that, I made the decision to temporarily suspend him pending a review by the Member Advisory Board of his past warning history and the new incident. With their vote he was permanently banned from Piranha-Fury. As B_ack said it was a really hard decision. Its never a good situation when you are put in a position like this with your friend.

I hope you guys appreciate the explanation.

Mike


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

jiggy said:


> n if u got a glass jaw, u better watch ur mouth.. cuz ill break yo face!
> 
> lol


Thanks 50, keep on trucking.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

so mr.harley is never coming back


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i realize its the decision of the MAB and the side administrator, but i dont know, i think permanent banishment is a bit harsh...he was a dick sometimes, but he made up for it with the information he posted. IMO one of the more knowledgeable members on p-fury...i respect the decision, just have to question its severity.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

Whats the point of the MAB if we are just goin to second guess them tho? \

I thought he was a really chill guy, which is why I was so suprised when I read that thread! Apparently thats happened before?


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> i realize its the decision of the MAB and the side administrator, but i dont know, i think permanent banishment is a bit harsh...he was a dick sometimes, but he made up for it with the information he posted. IMO one of the more knowledgeable members on p-fury...i respect the decision, just have to question its severity.


Please just know that it was a VERY difficult decision. We discuss everything and hash it out before we come to our individual votes... If someone is banned then there is very good evidence and reason behind it.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

r1dermon said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


He has had MANY non-permanent suspensions before.... At least 2-3 for what I can count. Where does it end then? When does one member STOP getting special treatment simply because they have 10,000 posts and are well known?


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Xenon said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


He has had MANY non-permanent suspensions before.... At least 2-3 for what I can count. Where does it end then? When does one member STOP getting special treatment simply because they have 10,000 posts and are well known?
[/quote]

That was a lame decision,yes Harley stated with the threats,but the bickering went both ways as well.-I think more should have been done with the other members,that were in the arguement as well.







I Understand you decision xenon but I think also when you have that much time in,and have contributed as much as craig did or has offered.you desearve alttle special treatment


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

"E-thug" funny funny funny
and maybe the 10000 post can from all the bashing he did ???


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

AKSkirmish said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


He has had MANY non-permanent suspensions before.... At least 2-3 for what I can count. Where does it end then? When does one member STOP getting special treatment simply because they have 10,000 posts and are well known?
[/quote]

That was a lame decision,yes Harley stated with the threats,but the bickering went both ways as well.-I think more should have been done with the other members,that were in the arguement as well.







I Understand you decision xenon but I think also when you have that much time in,and have contributed as much as craig did or has offered.you desearve alttle special treatment








[/quote]

I guess that is where we differ. In my opinion, PMing a member and threatening them with bodily harm IS NOT an appropriate way to use this website.... under any circumstances. (and it wasnt the first time it had been done)


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

honestly though, i see people getting into guff on here all the time, and they didnt contribute half as much positive information as Mr Harley. i didnt realize he had been suspended in the past, but to be truly honest, there are people on here who post garbage every day, and then get into e-fights about it...at least mr harley contributed positively for as much negative as he did...everyone slips up sometime, perhaps he just needs a cool off period...this is coming from someone (myself) who doesnt know Mr Harley personally, has never gotten into a PM conversation with him, never done business, and barely ever conversed on a thread, im just an objective viewer...if honestly he is so bad that permanent banishment must be enforced, then obviously im going to respect your decision, many of the people on the MAB and yourself xenon have known harley for a lot longer than i and can be more scrutinizing about particulars, but me being just an observant onlooker, im not sure i wouldve made the same decision. now, obviously that means about as much as a fart in a tin-can, because i have no powers on this site, just the ability to voice my opinion, and as such, i've got to roll with the decision since it's not mine to make...i respect your judgement xenon, i love your site here, and many of the members on it, and i hope you'll use carefull judgement in the future like you have in this case for further disciplinary matters. that's all i have to say.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

AKSkirmish said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


He has had MANY non-permanent suspensions before.... At least 2-3 for what I can count. Where does it end then? When does one member STOP getting special treatment simply because they have 10,000 posts and are well known?
[/quote]

That was a lame decision,yes Harley stated with the threats,but the bickering went both ways as well.-I think more should have been done with the other members,that were in the arguement as well.







I Understand you decision xenon but I think also when you have that much time in,and have contributed as much as craig did or has offered.you desearve alttle special treatment








[/quote]

For over a year and a half at least this issue has been going on...the board has only been around for 3 years...I think there comes a time where "special treatment" expires...dont you?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

r1dermon said:


> honestly though, i see people getting into guff on here all the time, and they didnt contribute half as much positive information as Mr Harley. i didnt realize he had been suspended in the past, but to be truly honest, there are people on here who post garbage every day, and then get into e-fights about it...at least mr harley contributed positively for as much negative as he did...everyone slips up sometime, perhaps he just needs a cool off period...this is coming from someone (myself) who doesnt know Mr Harley personally, has never gotten into a PM conversation with him, never done business, and barely ever conversed on a thread, im just an objective viewer...if honestly he is so bad that permanent banishment must be enforced, then obviously im going to respect your decision, many of the people on the MAB and yourself xenon have known harley for a lot longer than i and can be more scrutinizing about particulars, but me being just an observant onlooker, im not sure i wouldve made the same decision. now, obviously that means about as much as a fart in a tin-can, because i have no powers on this site, just the ability to voice my opinion, and as such, i've got to roll with the decision since it's not mine to make...i respect your judgement xenon, i love your site here, and many of the members on it, and i hope you'll use carefull judgement in the future like you have in this case for further disciplinary matters. that's all i have to say.


Thank you for your support. Craig recieved numerous "cool off" periods..... and none of them worked. Again, please dont act like options werent weighed. They were.... again.... when a person squanders all the chances they are given... when is a line drawn.

Lets look at this.... he THREATENED someone with bodily harm.... do you know how ridiculous that is for a freeking forum? Do you know how many times I have been threatened just for running a stupid fish website? Its ridiculous... and it HAS NO PLACE on this forum.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

another thing to remeber guys is that the MAB decided the fate on Harley, not Xenon. it was a very hard decision to come to, but special considerations cannot be an option. Everyone on this site is equal and must obide by the same rules. It's that simple. He has shown to be an exemplory member on many occassions, unfortunately he had also shown himself to be very destructive on many more occassions. It was his actions, not Xenon's or anyone else's that got him banned. No tolerance means no tolerance.... even if it sucks.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

just wondering.

If u are permanantly banned is there a slight chance you might be allowed back in?

not just for harley but for everyone else


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Xenon said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


He has had MANY non-permanent suspensions before.... At least 2-3 for what I can count. Where does it end then? When does one member STOP getting special treatment simply because they have 10,000 posts and are well known?
[/quote]

That was a lame decision,yes Harley stated with the threats,but the bickering went both ways as well.-I think more should have been done with the other members,that were in the arguement as well.







I Understand you decision xenon but I think also when you have that much time in,and have contributed as much as craig did or has offered.you desearve alttle special treatment








[/quote]

For over a year and a half at least this issue has been going on...the board has only been around for 3 years...I think there comes a time where "special treatment" expires...dont you?
[/quote]

Agreed,I just think more should have been done,nothing more.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

sup phisin.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

if anyone needs to be banned for posting retarded threads and stupid comments, its dannyboy....everyone knows that much!


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

r1dermon said:


> if anyone needs to be banned for posting retarded threads and stupid comments, its dannyboy....everyone knows that much!


I agree...that guy


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

DannyBoy17 said:


> if anyone needs to be banned for posting retarded threads and stupid comments, its dannyboy....everyone knows that much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree...that guy








[/quote]
that slut. ipban kthx.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

rocker said:


> just wondering.
> 
> If u are permanantly banned is there a slight chance you might be allowed back in?
> 
> not just for harley but for everyone else


yes. Anything is a possibility. It is not up to me however, it is up to your elected representatives.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

Xenon said:


> just wondering.
> 
> If u are permanantly banned is there a slight chance you might be allowed back in?
> 
> not just for harley but for everyone else


yes. Anything is a possibility. It is not up to me however, it is up to your elected representatives.
[/quote]
ok i see.

u know u could taek advantage of this.

when someone is permently banned they can come back in for a..worthy donation to the site


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

im sure people would just set up a different account and change their ip rather than pay to get back in...


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Xenon said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


He has had MANY non-permanent suspensions before.... At least 2-3 for what I can count. Where does it end then? When does one member STOP getting special treatment simply because they have 10,000 posts and are well known?
[/quote]

That was a lame decision,yes Harley stated with the threats,but the bickering went both ways as well.-I think more should have been done with the other members,that were in the arguement as well.







I Understand you decision xenon but I think also when you have that much time in,and have contributed as much as craig did or has offered.you desearve alttle special treatment








[/quote]

I guess that is where we differ. In my opinion, PMing a member and threatening them with bodily harm IS NOT an appropriate way to use this website.... under any circumstances. (and it wasnt the first time it had been done)
[/quote]

That's enough said right there, I dont see why you guys even have questions after Mike's very clear explanations.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

you're such kiss ass...ceiling cat doesnt like pansies...


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm a kiss ass that left staff







I'm trying to move DOWN the ladder. Ceiling cat finds you too dumb to stay on this board, goodbye.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PIRANHA KING said:


> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...c=117443&st=30/
> 
> His last post before being suspended is at the bottom of that thread.
> 
> Edit: scrappy beat me to it.


And then picture dozens of threads with more or less the same input, a 2 year history of being on zero tolerance and still slipping up, several "one last chance and that's it" that he blew and well, the inevitable happened.

It's too bad, he really had his moments where he was an awesome dude and a great contribution to the site, but he couldn't distance himself from being a dick to some people like it would never catch up with him. It did.
[/quote]
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
wes
[/quote]

Don't try and make a point if you can't think, you sub chimpanzee


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

acestro said:


> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...c=117443&st=30/
> 
> His last post before being suspended is at the bottom of that thread.
> 
> Edit: scrappy beat me to it.


And then picture dozens of threads with more or less the same input, a 2 year history of being on zero tolerance and still slipping up, several "one last chance and that's it" that he blew and well, the inevitable happened.

It's too bad, he really had his moments where he was an awesome dude and a great contribution to the site, but he couldn't distance himself from being a dick to some people like it would never catch up with him. It did.
[/quote]
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
wes
[/quote]

Don't try and make a point if you can't think, you sub chimpanzee
[/quote]

and thats just priceless


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> No need for this there guy


I dont get it.























I wasn't referring to anyone in particular either.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

Hey AKS, send that to the MAB, I think they would really appreciate having some input from the members


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

acestro said:


> > No need for this there guy
> 
> 
> I dont get it.
> ...


You quoted me and r1.It's all good,I responded politly(sp)


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Oops, I just meant to quote Mike's explanation, cool. Where'd the cat with the automatic weapon go?


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Oops, I just meant to quote Mike's explanation, cool. Where'd the cat with the automatic weapon go?


He's still around(lurking in the darkness)


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

The problem I have with what he said is when he actually threatened to beat those members up, or get other people to. I didnt think he would go that far. A lot of members bitch at eachother on here, including me, but I dont think anyone even considers crossing that line.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> The problem I have with what he said is when he actually threatened to beat those members up, or get other people to. I didnt think he would go that far. A lot of members bitch at eachother on here, including me, but I dont think anyone even considers crossing that line.


I have stated pretty much the same bull he did with a different member awhile back,And I'm still here.I agree with you though,he did not need to cross that line-but hey it's been crossed before(i do understand he has been warned numerous times,but he also contributes alot of input where needed).He was provoked nothing more nothing less-I still think it needs to be looked into more.The other member involved know harley and what kind of person he is.They knew where it was going to go when they brought it up,there foir being there fault as well.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> im sure people would just set up a different account and change their ip rather than pay to get back in...


lol ya i know it was a joke.

anyways..

mike has already answered our questions clearly and given a good explanantion. so my 2 cents are lock this thread up and anymore question can be forwarded to the MAB i guess.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

::chants::
BRING HIM BACK! BRING HIM BACK! BRING HIM BACK!


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

r1dermon said:


> like i said, i respect the decision, you guys probably looked at a lot more factors than what i've personally seen, just not something i wholeheartedly agree with...i mean, i agree, he should've been suspended, but the whole permanent thing is where i dont agree...but it doesnt matter, i dont want trouble, i just wanted it to be known that he was a very good member WHEN he was a good member...i had no problems with him, and he seemed to always post great information, but if the MAB and xenon think it was the right decision, then obviously, it was the right decision, i just can't figure out why...hehe. dont mind me...


Like stated before it was a hard decision, but it was the right decision for the board. If a new member asks a question and gets BASHED for it, it doesn't give the image the p-fury community/board wants to give. The site wants to be the number one, best, most informational, and most professional site on the Internet about piranhas. How can we be that if someone new to the hobby asks if their tank is big enough and the first response is "WHAT ARE YOU STUPID FOR PUTTING THAT MANY P'S IN THAT SIZE TANK YOU ____WAD" (made up example, but you get my idea). Every member, new or old must follow the rules. If I post up nudity, I'll get warned no questions asked. If someone else posts up nudity, they will also be warned. Again the decision was hard against a member who had the ability to be one of the best members on the site, but he also had the ability to be one of the worst members on the site. Harley is a friend of mine and it's not easy voting against a friend.



> everyone slips up sometime, perhaps he just needs a cool off period


We also mentioned that during our discussions about Harley. Everyone can have a bad day once and awhile. But Harley had too many bad days and too many warnings. We had to be fair for every member and we looked at it like "If this was anyone else, they would have been banned alot quicker." Mike & GG were working with Harley for the longest time and they were out of ideas. You can give and give and give as much as you want, but if the person doesn't want to change, it won't happen.


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

to threaten someone on a fish site is just childish. if someone can enrage you that much over a computer then you should be spending your time with a doctor instead of infront of your screen.

his attitude in that last thread was crazy. he freaked out on me in particular for asking him why he doesnt give the info requested instead of telling all the people trying to help the person they are wrong. if you know the answer then just share it.

his response to that was "he didnt have to help him,me or anyone else on this site" then went on to threaten me and apparently others too. his attitude in his response shows his lack of wanting to be helpful.

the MAB was chosen and thats that. now they have chosen the fate of craig. like mike stated how many chances does a person have to get before they clean up their act. i for one stand by the owner of the site and the mods and admins who run it. they have known craig for a long time and if they see it fit for him to be gone as well as the MAB sees fit then we as members have to respect their descision. after all they are trying to clean up the site for the rest of the members like you and me.

they did what they had to do.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2006)

I hope people can see this as proof that the MAB was a good idea. We elected these people, and they've made a decision not based on personal relationships, but on whats better for thier fellow members and the board overall. I hope the MAB can continue to be involved in the direction of the board, and people can begin to use it as a tool, instead of looking at it as an enemy.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

piranha_guy_dan said:


> to threaten someone on a fish site is just childish. if someone can enrage you that much over a computer then you should be spending your time with a doctor instead of infront of your screen.
> 
> his attitude in that last thread was crazy. he freaked out on me in particular for asking him why he doesnt give the info requested instead of telling all the people trying to help the person they are wrong. if you know the answer then just share it.
> 
> ...


And like stated you were part of the ecouragement.You for one as many know how harley is and how that response was going to get answered.You say you stand by the sight and its admin and mods but yet you still encourage crap like this even though you once again knew how that response was going to get answered.i for one think that is alittle disrespectful,yes he took iot over board but once again "you" were encouraging this.







You for one have had many disagreements with harley yet you still choose to jump in the middle of it,what gives with that?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

AKSkirmish said:


> I have stated pretty much the same bull he did with a different member awhile back,And I'm still here.I agree with you though,he did not need to cross that line-but hey it's been crossed before(i do understand he has been warned numerous times,but he also contributes alot of input where needed).He was provoked nothing more nothing less-*I still think it needs to be looked into more.The other member involved know harley and what kind of person he is.They knew where it was going to go when they brought it up,there foir being there fault as well*.


The problem with this statement is first you have absolutely zero idea of what MAB did to make its decision. You have zero idea of ALL the issues the staff and Harley have tried to work out in the last 3 years. You are speaking about ONE thread...when this has been a continual issue for 3 years.
And just because a member cant control himself is no excuse.....you're suggesting other members tiptoe around someone because if you dare question something he says he will loose it...and that is supposed to be acceptable? I dont understand your thinking. That is the same mentality that says if a girl wears a skirt she is asking to be raped. Harley knew what he was doing. He had been warned about it many many times. He has been suspended for this exact same thing, however, he decided that it was more important to pm this member and threaten him with physical harm&#8230;then to continue his membership on the site&#8230;..so now he banned. 
I dont care what fish you have, or how long you have been a member...there is a concept known as diminishing returns...it basically says that the value of something has gotten to the point where it is being outweighed by the expense...IMO....that is what happened in this case.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I have stated pretty much the same bull he did with a different member awhile back,And I'm still here.I agree with you though,he did not need to cross that line-but hey it's been crossed before(i do understand he has been warned numerous times,but he also contributes alot of input where needed).He was provoked nothing more nothing less-*I still think it needs to be looked into more.The other member involved know harley and what kind of person he is.They knew where it was going to go when they brought it up,there foir being there fault as well*.


The problem with this statement is first you have absolutely zero idea of what MAB did to make its decision. You have zero idea of ALL the issues the staff and Harley have tried to work out in the last 3 years. You are speaking about ONE thread...when this has been a continual issue for 3 years.
And just because a member cant control himself is no excuse.....you're suggesting other members tiptoe around someone because if you dare question something he says he will loose it...and that is supposed to be acceptable? I dont understand your thinking. That is the same mentality that says if a girl wears a skirt she is asking to be raped. Harley knew what he was doing. He had been warned about it many many times. He has been suspended for this exact same thing, however, he decided that it was more important to pm this member and threaten him with physical harm&#8230;then to continue his membership on the site&#8230;..so now he banned. 
I dont care what fish you have, or how long you have been a member...there is a concept known as diminishing returns...it basically says that the value of something has gotten to the point where it is being outweighed by the expense...IMO....that is what happened in this case.
[/quote]

Read everything I have said there guy.I have stated more than just that as well.I think the others need it as well.I'm not saying it wasn't right to ban him.I just think the other need it as well.It does go both ways here.And I did not vote once for the mab and really dont think it is needed but that is a different subject.It was just plain wrong.I do agree with the dicision.Have to go to work now


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

tsk tsk tsk







That was definitely over the line for Mr. Harley.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

AKSkirmish said:


> Read everything I have said there guy.I have stated more than just that as well.I think the others need it as well.I'm not saying it wasn't right to ban him.I just think the other need it as well.It does go both ways here.And I did not vote once for the mab and really dont think it is needed but that is a different subject.It was just plain wrong.I do agree with the dicision.Have to go to work now


Are you saying they should have been banned? Why would you ban someone who hasn't been warned, or been a problem on the site, for getting into an argument? Harley was not banned for what happened in that thread...he was banned because this was a pattern of behavior. If the others display this same behavior....they will be dealt with in the same manner. Kind of like the judicial system....1st time offenders are not treated the same as the guy with 3 strikes.
And how do you know what was done with the other member?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

acestro said:


> That's enough said right there, I dont see why you guys even have questions after Mike's very clear explanations.


Dont worry about it acestro. If you look at the people continuing to question my clear explanations you will find everyone always has another motive for attempting to undermine the administration of this site.

Besides, I didnt make the decision to ban him. I am simply defending my decision to put him in front of the MAB.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> QUOTE(acestro @ Apr 14 2006, 01:22 PM)
> 
> That's enough said right there, *I dont see why you guys even have questions after Mike's very clear explanations.*


Because every choir has its falsetto singer.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

you guys are arguing with mike and administration when they're not the ones that made the final decision. find the members of the MAB and take it up with them. theyre the ones that vote on what happens with members.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> you guys are arguing with mike and administration when they're not the ones that made the final decision. find the members of the MAB and take it up with them. theyre the ones that vote on what happens with members.


They are the ones choosing to get into the middle,thats why.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

hastatus said:


> That's enough said right there, I dont see why you guys even have questions after Mike's very clear explanations.


Dont worry about it acestro. If you look at the people continuing to question my clear explanations you will find everyone always has another motive for attempting to undermine the administration of this site.

Besides, I didnt make the decision to ban him. I am simply defending my decision to put him in front of the MAB.
[/quote]

Agreed, even if that motive is just to be heard.


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## I-Eat-My-Master (Feb 19, 2006)

Deterrence doesn't work......


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

hyphen said:


> you guys are arguing with mike and administration when they're not the ones that made the final decision. find the members of the MAB and take it up with them. theyre the ones that vote on what happens with members.


You really ought to leave this to the people who have a clue about what happened...

The administration, made the decision to suspend him and put him in front of the advisory board.

The advisory board contributed the other part of the equation, which was the final ruling.

There was a clear process involving both the administration and the advisory board to adress this, where you got the idea that there was some kind of Member Advisory Board running amok and banning people of their own accord I can't understand, but maybe that's why you're not called on for much other than the picture contests.

I'm going to put it this way. I see so many of the same arguments in this thread that we had in the MAB meeting room. Nobody wanted to ban Harley, and it's what I would call a shitty decision. Shitty not because it was the wrong decision, but shitty because someone had to make it. What would you guys honestly do in our position, given that you had a member who was told "zero tolerance, you can't screw up again", who then screwed up again, and then was told "ok seriously, you're on your last chance", who then screwed up again, and then while you were having the discussion about what to do with him he sends personal threats to another member.

Like I said, nobody wanted him banned and nobody wanted to make that decision. You guys miss having the guy here, and so do I, he had his moments where he was an awesome guy. But he literally made it impossible not to make this decision, and it sucks, but it just worked out that way. Sorry guys, we aren't sitting here going "good I'm glad he's gone either" and I'm with you when I say that this decision sucks, but it wasn't anyone's decision but Harley's at this point.


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## I-Eat-My-Master (Feb 19, 2006)

I generally think ppl like to complain....... lol.......


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

hyphen said:


> you guys are arguing with mike and administration when they're not the ones that made the final decision. find the members of the MAB and take it up with them. theyre the ones that vote on what happens with members.


I have to say hyphen that is not exactly how the process works. The MAB does have the final say.... as a jury would however it is the staff/teams job to make the decision to put them in front of the board. I made the decision to put him in front of the board.


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## phishin06 (Jun 11, 2003)

cant he sign up with a different name???


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

phishin06 said:


> cant he sign up with a different name???


sure he could, but before he was banned he changed his group to ban me already so i dont think he would bother


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> you guys are arguing with mike and administration when they're not the ones that made the final decision. find the members of the MAB and take it up with them. *theyre the ones that vote on what happens with members.*


You really ought to leave this to the people who have a clue about what happened...

The administration, made the decision to suspend him and put him in front of the advisory board.

*The advisory board contributed the other part of the equation, which was the final ruling.*

There was a clear process involving both the administration and the advisory board to adress this, where you got the idea that there was some kind of Member Advisory Board running amok and banning people of their own accord I can't understand, but maybe that's why you're not called on for much other than the picture contests.
[/quote]

umm...


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## The Predator (Sep 28, 2005)

why do people get banned for having 2 names? i found that out on some other forum


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Xenon said:


> you guys are arguing with mike and administration when they're not the ones that made the final decision. find the members of the MAB and take it up with them. theyre the ones that vote on what happens with members.


I have to say hyphen that is not exactly how the process works. The MAB does have the final say.... as a jury would however it is the staff/teams job to make the decision to put them in front of the board. I made the decision to put him in front of the board.
[/quote]

yeah, you put him in front of the board. and apparently, it resulted in his ban. i'm not contesting either of your decisions. simply stating the mab has responsibility in voting on what happens with a member brought up to the board and that the admins are not the only ones to be arguing with.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

VENOM said:


> why do people get banned for having 2 names? i found that out on some other forum


We dont just ban people for having 2 names. We will ask them to pick a name and remove the other one. What people get banned for is continuing to make user names after they have been asked to stop. We are far from banhappy. We give everyone the opportunity to become a productive member and correct whatever issues they are having...however...some people feel the need to act like children on this site. They dont act that way on every site though. They will come here, run around like an idiot, and then go to another site and act fine. It is really interesting.
There are really only 2 reasons I could think of for having another account.....so you can talk smack to other members and not worry about the consequences....or as pathetic as it sounds...some people use those other accounts to back up their original post so it looks like someone agrees with them. As sad as that sounds...you would be surprised how often it happens. Other than that...there is no reason to have multiple accounts.
I cant think on one person we have banned for having multiple accounts...they have been banned for what they did with those multiple accounts though.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Just let me know when it's time for fat and ugly people, cause it's starting to feel that way...


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm sure he will be back..some day.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

acestro said:


> Just let me know when it's time for fat and ugly people, cause it's starting to feel that way...


fire away my good sir.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

okay.


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...c=117443&st=30/
> 
> His last post before being suspended is at the bottom of that thread.
> 
> Edit: scrappy beat me to it.


And then picture dozens of threads with more or less the same input, a 2 year history of being on zero tolerance and still slipping up, several "one last chance and that's it" that he blew and well, the inevitable happened.

It's too bad, he really had his moments where he was an awesome dude and a great contribution to the site, but he couldn't distance himself from being a dick to some people like it would never catch up with him. It did.
[/quote]
don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
wes
[/quote]

Don't try and make a point if you can't think, you sub chimpanzee
[/quote]


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

...


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

acestro said:


> okay.


You know... you really do the site a service by reliving the stress by posting up the fatties.

I think tho that this thread needs several more to relieve some more tension. Ya, im feeling the tension


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

:laugh: Thanks Exodus, it's just when dumb things get taken seriously or people go too far in any direction. Ceiling cat is my ultimate ally.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

hey baby... where you been all my life.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

kay...i think it's safe to say that this thread is eh...headed in a direction we've been seeing a lot of lately.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

hyphen said:


> kay...i think it's safe to say that this thread is eh...headed in a direction we've been seeing a lot of lately.


You're not complaining again, are you?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

okay, no more!


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