# open carry



## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/83486052.html

LANSING -- Quite the scene developed outside Ponderosa Steakhouse in South Lansing this past Saturday afternoon.

About seven men walked into the restaurant, packing guns -- open for all to see in holsters on their hips. A short while later, Lansing Police showed up to show the men out.

A verbal argument between the gun carriers and officers ensued, caught on camera by a bystander (the video can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzPTi8heUTQ).

"The open carriers were of course not happy, because they were minding their own business, doing a lawful activity," said Tyler Hilliker, a gun rights supporter who was at Ponderosa on Saturday.

Under Michigan law, people with legally registered handguns can openly carry them in public. Some of the men who walked into Ponderosa, in fact, were members of the Michigan Open Carry. They were holding a meeting to discuss gun rights.

Only thing is, private property owners can refuse them.

"My analogy would be: If you come to my home, that's private property. I can decide who I want and my home and who not," said Teresa Szymanski, captain of the Lansing Police Department's South Precinct.

Officials from Michigan Open Carry say the owner of Ponderosa greed to let them hold a meeting at the restaurant. But he says he didn't expect the meeting to be held on a busy Saturday -- and certainly didn't expect the men to bring more than handguns.

"At first, we looked the other way on the handguns," said owner Dennis Holleran. "And then some gentleman shows up with an assault rifle, and that was just too far over the top."

That's when an assistant manager decided to call police. The open carriers say about 10 officers arrived on the scene and began harrassing them.

But LPD say no one was arrested and notes they're now working cooperatively with Open Carry to ensure this doesn't happen again.

"I think the taxpayers of Lansing want us to respond to gun calls. But at the same time, we need to be aware of individual rights."


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Who the eff brings assault rifles into a restaurant ? Why would you want to show people that your carrying a handgun? I understand that its your right to open carry or whatever and its too scary for you pansys to venture outside unarmed but people need to relax and leave the pistols and Ak-47s at home.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

I'm not supporting what they did....
but they carry for the same reason people carry conceled. For personal protection. Thats all.

You obviously wouldn't have to worry about a thing if there wasn't so many scumbags out there in today's world.

As for the "assault rifle"....you going to attempt to rob someone thats carrying an AK or AR? I don't think so just the mere sight of it is going to say "Stay away".

*spelling edit


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I think the idiots were just going for shock value.

Anybody who openly walks around with a firearm displayed is just looking for attention IMO.

And an assault rifle?
Gimme a break.
$100 says the dude is a scrawney, pimple faced geek who needed to look "tough."


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

I agree 100% that carrying a rifle in public is only there for shock value. Keep in mind, I don't support what they did at all. But I heavily support the right to carry conceled.

The whole thing is trying to bring back what was done long ago and is now concidered to be completely politically incorrect.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

lol
People would really sh*t bricks in my area then.....

But yeah no need for something like this...No matter what the circumstance was or is for.....



Tango374 said:


> *I agree 100% that carrying a rifle in public is only there for shock value.* Keep in mind, I don't support what they did at all. But I heavily support the right to carry conceled.
> 
> The whole thing is trying to bring back what was done long ago and is now concidered to be completely politically incorrect.


In your guys area-I would most likely have to agree...In my area-It's a way of life.....And a must at times...


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> *I agree 100% that carrying a rifle in public is only there for shock value.* Keep in mind, I don't support what they did at all. But I heavily support the right to carry conceled.
> 
> The whole thing is trying to bring back what was done long ago and is now concidered to be completely politically incorrect.


In your guys area-I would most likely have to agree...In my area-It's a way of life.....And a must at times...
[/quote]

Why would carring a rifle in public be a "must?"


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> *I agree 100% that carrying a rifle in public is only there for shock value.* Keep in mind, I don't support what they did at all. But I heavily support the right to carry conceled.
> 
> The whole thing is trying to bring back what was done long ago and is now concidered to be completely politically incorrect.


In your guys area-I would most likely have to agree...In my area-It's a way of life.....And a must at times...
[/quote]

Why would carring a rifle in public be a "must?"
[/quote]

Bears is the biggest...Many people have been attacked in downtown...We also have very high population of bear and moose in town year round......Fishing season can get pretty damn wild with the wildlife up here.....Most people just never here about the local stuff here......
Place like the Russian Jack river is notorious for bear attacks...Along with many other places including about 7 diffrent location through out downtown anchorage.

But I guess it's your own choice if you want to get attacked by a bear....Myself wont be caught dead without protection....And a bear will attack you so damn fast...You would be lucky enough to even reach a weapon to deffend yourself-Let alone a concealed one at that....


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Piranha_man said:


> Why would carring a rifle in public be a "must?"


Bears dude.

After thinking about it a little bit...I'm going to side with the shock value on this totally. Initially I said "personal protection"... bet we are not in a warzone and this isn't the old west.....Get a CCW.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Effin' crazy man... I had no idea!

Downtown?!?
Wild.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Effin' crazy man... I had no idea!
> 
> Downtown?!?
> Wild.


Yeah it's pretty crazy man.......I love this damn place.......


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Yeah, I've gotta come check that place out someday.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Yeah, I've gotta come check that place out someday.


I have had the luxury of living all over the US......There is a reason why I call this place home......The beauty here is unmatched.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

utterly no need to walk into a resturant packing rifles. they were asking for trouble.


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## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

His Majesty said:


> utterly no need to walk into a resturant packing rifles. they were asking for trouble.


Except where AK lives I agree!!


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## jharrison (Dec 7, 2004)

From the article, it sounds as if you can only open carry, not conceal carry. If the restaurant had an issue, they should of asked them to leave the guns in their cars or leave. No need to call the cops.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I am just surprised there was any discussion about them leaving. The restaurant is private property...and I can tell you that if I walked in with my family and saw rifles and holstered pistols everywhere....I would leave and probably not come back. The guy is trying to run a business...any person of average intelligence should have recognized that and understood the managers position. This isnt about the right to carry a weapon...it is about a business's obligation to create an environment that will further his business. I dont think a room full of gun toting mercenaries would do that.


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

This was just for attention. If not they would not have carried the AR. Those type of guys piss me off. They WILL get our right to carry taken away with stunts like this.

I just got back from Cabelas and these guys have a big stand set up. I didn't give them the time of day but I did notice www.miopencaryoption.org I think? I was also at a gun show yesterday and just about everyone there was talking about it also.

While I do agree that it is a right I don't agree with doing it. It's just asking for problems.

We may not have bears here but we do have a critter who is equally dangerous and unpredictable.

But why would you carry open? I have never robbed someone, but if I was going to and I saw the guy had a gun on his hip I would ether A. shoot him so he couldn't shoot me, or B. find someone else to rob. Something tells me our critters are too stupid to chose B.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

If the owner asked them to leave and they refused they were in the wrong. Wheather you agree with a law or not does not give you the right to break it.
Personally I couldn't care less if the guy sitting next to me in a resteraunt is openly armed. Only difference between carrying concealed and open carry is that people around you can see the gun. They don't like it too bad.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

I can't even begin to Fathom Why people want to Carry Guns around with them. I was raised to See weapons as two things
1) for hunting . 2 ) Last Resort Protection for POLICE officers. .

I have 3 Uncles and a Father who are /are retired Officers , and I dont feel any normal citizen needs to be walking around with a Gun. that would absolutely Scare the sh*t out of me knowing Im having dinner and someone brings in A Gun , Never mind Several and an Assault Rifle.

Is it just me , or does anyone else see anything wrong with being able to carry a handgun around with you ?

Just imagine some Poor Unsuspecting Canadian Tourist is Enjoying Breakfast at Some little Diner and everyone is Packin heat. Completely Uncalled for . Completely unnecessary.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i think it is ok in some regards, but some people need to be realistic. these idiots that want to walk around with assault rifles just because technically it isn't illegal are just douchebags, and as was already mentioned, they are actually doing more to get their gun rights taken away than they are to help their group gain support.

conceal carry makes some people feel safe and it could help in certain situations, but the people that think that they are automatically invincible just because they have a concealed weapon are just being naiive. if someone is gonna rob you on the street at gun point, you aren't gonna see it coming and have time to pull your weapon, and if you try, that might get you shot when all you would have lost in the first place was the cash in your wallet.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

They are wondering why they are being harrased when they are carrying firearms? Musta thought it was 1870 and they were in a Desperado movie. I understand the States has easier laws on carrying but come on now what do you need a gun for in a resturant?? Guess you have the right to defend your Denny's hotcakes with whatever ya want but I feel I can tell my friend to f*ck off and get his own instead of lighting him up!!


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

Jon87 said:


> They are wondering why they are being harrased when they are carrying firearms? Musta thought it was 1870 and they were in a Desperado movie. I understand the States has easier laws on carrying but come on now *what do you need a gun for in a resturant*?? Guess you have the right to defend your Denny's hotcakes with whatever ya want but I feel I can tell my friend to f*ck off and get his own instead of lighting him up!!


http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/07...t-shooting.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583233,00.html

And these are just the first two. Sad, sad day when you can't even feel safe when eating.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

I could care less if they're carrying openly. It'd be hypocritical for me to be upset because I ccw everywhere. But it is the business owners' right to refuse them service. But from the story it sounded like he didn't even ask them to leave and just called the cops.

Btw, the rifle was just over the top though. That sort of stuff bothers me because I have no idea how proficient or safe he is with it and it's something that can't be holstered so at some point the muzzle going to eventually be facing an unsafe direction.


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

Scrappy said:


> I could care less if they're carrying openly. It'd be hypocritical for me to be upset because I ccw everywhere. But it is the business owners' right to refuse them service. But from the story it sounded like he didn't even ask them to leave and just called the cops.
> 
> *Btw, the rifle was just over the top though. That sort of stuff bothers me because I have no idea how proficient or safe he is with it and it's something that can't be holstered so at some point the muzzle going to eventually be facing an unsafe direction.*


Not just that but when was the last time you saw "personal protection" rounds for an AR? You shoot someone with that thing and it could go threw other people and walls before stopping.


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## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I am just surprised there was any discussion about them leaving. The restaurant is private property...a*nd I can tell you that if I walked in with my family and saw rifles and holstered pistols everywhere....I would leave and probably not come back*. The guy is trying to run a business...any person of average intelligence should have recognized that and understood the managers position. This isnt about the right to carry a weapon...it is about a business's obligation to create an environment that will further his business. I dont think a room full of gun toting mercenaries would do that.


Agreed!!

Unless it was Alaska...


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

Scrappy said:


> I could care less if they're carrying openly. It'd be hypocritical for me to be upset because I ccw everywhere. But it is the business owners' right to refuse them service. But from the story it sounded like he didn't even ask them to leave and just called the cops.
> 
> Btw, the rifle was just over the top though. That sort of stuff bothers me because I have no idea how proficient or safe he is with it and it's something that can't be holstered so at some point the muzzle going to eventually be facing an unsafe direction.


I would be absolutely terrified to go up to a man with a Gun and tell him to get out.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Foodstamp said:


> I would be absolutely terrified to go up to a man with a Gun and tell him to get out.


I can see why the everyday citizen would be scared shittless to even look in their direction....but they're not there to go on a shooting rampage, they're there to get on the news.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

SeedlessOne said:


> ^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


Im not a victim , I just feel at a slight disadvantage When a P*SSY brings a Gun to a knife fight. Anyone can bring a down a man with a Gun , why not fight with your Fists like a real man would ?

and not everyone is in the same frame of mind , what might warrant someone to use a Gun , may seem completely irrational to another Open carrier. No wonder why the USA has one of the Highest murder rates with FireArms in the World. something close to 10,000 a year.

I was driving through Detroit with my girlfriend a Few years back , we were on our way to Cedarpoint in Ohio, Some Dude with a beat up car was Driving on the Highway , I looked over and He had a shotgun on his dashboard , the Gun pointed out the passenger side window.

I almost called 911 , but I didnt want to Ruin my vacation , so I was like f*ck that , not my country not my problem. Where was he going, Shopping ? , lunch with his friends ? to pick his kids up ? a Bank Robbery ? How can you tell the Difference when Having a Shotgun in your car is legal.

I hope that the United states tightens up on these Open Carry Policies , it just seems absolutely crazy. 
YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN OUT IN PUBLIC , I dont care How scared CNN makes you feel. YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN IN PUBLIC.

Ive been Robbed in some Fucked up Ghetto in Ohio , Guy Didnt pull a Gun on me . Robbed me with a Knife. He was nice about it too. f*ck it was $40 Bucks whoop dee doo. Now imagine if I had a Gun in my Holster , imagine where that could have gone...

I could have lost more than $40 that day. and so could have he.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

SeedlessOne said:


> ^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


X2^^
Anyone who want to just put their hands up and give away their money like a p*ssy have at it but I'll personally be damned if I'll let it happen to me without a fight. Die like a man or live like a mouse. it's your choice.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Switzerland....


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Jon87 said:


> ^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


Im not a victim , I just feel at a slight disadvantage When a P*SSY brings a Gun to a knife fight. Anyone can bring a down a man with a Gun , why not fight with your Fists like a real man would ?

and not everyone is in the same frame of mind , what might warrant someone to use a Gun , may seem completely irrational to another Open carrier. No wonder why the USA has one of the Highest murder rates with FireArms in the World. something close to 10,000 a year.

I was driving through Detroit with my girlfriend a Few years back , we were on our way to Cedarpoint in Ohio, Some Dude with a beat up car was Driving on the Highway , I looked over and He had a shotgun on his dashboard , the Gun pointed out the passenger side window.

I almost called 911 , but I didnt want to Ruin my vacation , so I was like f*ck that , not my country not my problem. Where was he going, Shopping ? , lunch with his friends ? to pick his kids up ? a Bank Robbery ? How can you tell the Difference when Having a Shotgun in your car is legal.

I hope that the United states tightens up on these Open Carry Policies , it just seems absolutely crazy. 
YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN OUT IN PUBLIC , I dont care How scared CNN makes you feel. YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN IN PUBLIC.

Ive been Robbed in some Fucked up Ghetto in Ohio , Guy Didnt pull a Gun on me . Robbed me with a Knife. He was nice about it too. f*ck it was $40 Bucks whoop dee doo. Now imagine if I had a Gun in my Holster , imagine where that could have gone...

I could have lost more than $40 that day. and so could have he.
[/quote]
It's funny that you're glad he had a knife instead of a gun. Your story isn't a good example for gun control because most shootings at those distances end up with the shooter missing. The guy with the knife won't miss, and he can stick the hell out of you in a matter of seconds. Forget the hollywood idea that you're going to wrestle the knife away from him. With how fast you can stab someone that just doesn't work.

I just find it odd that people consider a knife less threatening than a gun at close range. Think about it.... a typical 3.5" blade is substantially larger than a bullet, is usually laden with bacteria, and can easily cause internal damage and massive blood loss.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

Piranha Dan said:


> ^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


X2^^
Anyone who want to just put their hands up and give away their money like a p*ssy have at it but I'll personally be damned if I'll let it happen to me without a fight. Die like a man or live like a mouse. it's your choice.
[/quote]

Die like a Man or Live like a mouse ? Nobody is going to think I am a man , they are gonna think I am an idiot. An Idiot, who Could have saved his life for a Few Bucks. Is life always about money ? what good is money When your dead ?

Anyways , get into a Gym , Get into Shape and learn how to Fight. 10,000 Firearm Deaths in the U.S.A yearly , Compared to 90% of the rest of the world having less than 200 annually .

Im all For guns and weapons for the sake of Hunting and even recreation , But to be able to carry that sort of thing around with you is completely unnecessary , How some people can justify this, or attempt to is well beyond me.

Im not saying everyone who Does open carry is a Gun crazy Lunatic , But believe me there are some who are. Guns are extremely hard to get here , and America is supplying Canada with alot of illegal Firearms , which sucks , but it happens . You give us GUNS and we give you POT , thats how the wheel turns.

I try and i Try to understand this , But our cultures are at Opposite ends of the Specter when it Comes to Guns. Like I said , Im all for Guns , But not when a Bunch of Whacked out Lunatics have the " Right " to have a gun in Public , Makes me feel Un easy.

and the guy with the knife Never so much as held it to me. Just got Real close and Flashed it at me and that was fine , Im fine with that.
$40.oo was worth my Life. Money is Money , I will have $40.oo when i get paid again.

And I do live like a Man , Everyday of My life , I help my Family , I Pay my Bills , and Im the Best Son / Uncle /Brother / Boyfriend I could ever be , So dont tell me Im not a Man. Drop the Gun , Drop the Knife and As god as my witness I will Drop You.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I think I'm gonna start walking around town with a compound bow and quiver of arrows.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Jon, do you have to make threats in every single post you make?


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

joedizzlempls said:


> Jon, do you have to make threats in every single post you make?


Woah , Joe . thats not what I meant.

When I said DROP YOU , I didnt mean him specifically , I meant the person with the weapon. that wasnt directed at anyone.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

haha, i was just messin around... you're just a scrappy guy aren't you?









just out of curiosity, do any of you that live in michigan see a lot of people taking advantage of open carry?


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

joedizzlempls said:


> haha, i was just messin around... you're just a scrappy guy aren't you?:laugh:


I can Hold my own :nod: Its just I would hate to die over Materialistic things ya know ? 
Ive fought guys twice my size , and had my face beaten and so on , I just feel defenseless when people bring weapons.

American Marijuana Laws seem tougher than the Gun Laws in some states.
But Marijuana Never killed anybody.

I know friends In Michigan who all own Tons of Guns , but never take em out in Public. Infact , they feel its unnecessary.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

joedizzlempls said:


> just out of curiosity, do any of you that live in michigan see a lot of people taking advantage of open carry?


Most of my friends and family that own guns do not carry them concealed. Some even have CCW's but don't take advantage of it. they only like having that option available including myself. 
I do have some friends and family that do carry.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> I think I'm gonna start walking around town with a compound bow and quiver of arrows.


I say we bring back the quarterstaff!


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## tomheli (Sep 28, 2008)

in philadelphia we have crack heads aka walking dead they would kill there own mother for a dollar,i wish we just had bears


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

tomheli said:


> in philadelphia we have crack heads aka walking dead they would kill there own mother for a dollar,i wish we just had bears


Its Universal Tom , Crackheads are everywhere. Filled in every ghetto of Ontario , but not excluding everwhere else. Our system does a Fine Job here in London , trying to keep our streets clean of crackheads and criminals , I can't comment on american police officers , But here most cops are pretty big and tough.


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## tomheli (Sep 28, 2008)

Jon87 said:


> in philadelphia we have crack heads aka walking dead they would kill there own mother for a dollar,i wish we just had bears


Its Universal Tom , Crackheads are everywhere. Filled in every ghetto of Ontario , but not excluding everwhere else. Our system does a Fine Job here in London , trying to keep our streets clean of crackheads and criminals , I can't comment on american police officers , But here most cops are pretty big and tough.
[/quote]not here cops are overworked and underpaid and under fire quite a few killed lately if crime went away i would the first to throw my gun in the ocean but till then i will carry some who live in nice areas dont understand the need for self defence-there lucky


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Switzerland....


What?
They sell Pepsi in Switzerland too!!!
Or am I missing something?

What kind of rifle is that?
I can't tell


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

notaverage said:


> What kind of rifle is that?
> I can't tell


Thats a Sig 550. 
I put that picture up just for the hell of it...Baiting someone. lol
If I remember correctly, anybody can purchase whatever(with the exception of fully automatics) with a purchase permit, which is easily obtained. The next permit is carry permit. 
Military brings home weapons with them daily and used to be issued ammo to keep at home. Its real common to see off duty servicemen with 550's slung (picture).

What is pretty cool is that they have the choice of keeping that weapon when they exit the service. Of coarse, its sent first to an armorer to have the rifle's capability changed to Semi-auto only.


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## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

Easy enough. I believe in concealed carry, but private and public establishments should be allowed to have their own rules regarding if firearms are carried on premises.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

tomheli said:


> in philadelphia we have crack heads aka walking dead they would kill there own mother for a dollar,i wish we just had bears


Its Universal Tom , Crackheads are everywhere. Filled in every ghetto of Ontario , but not excluding everwhere else. Our system does a Fine Job here in London , trying to keep our streets clean of crackheads and criminals , I can't comment on american police officers , But here most cops are pretty big and tough.
[/quote]not here cops are overworked and underpaid and under fire quite a few killed lately if crime went away i would the first to throw my gun in the ocean but till then i will carry some who live in nice areas dont understand the need for self defence-there lucky
[/quote]

Cops in Ontario are paid Very well , starting at $45,000 ending somewhere closer to $90,000 if they remain constables for 30 some odd years. Some of the best Benefits around , and to become a Police officer , you need a good amount of schooling and usuallyhave to be pretty Fit.

One of the better Jobs around I would think.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

You cant be a cop without a university degree in Ontario I heard nowdays. Unless your someone who is well known and involved with a lot of community/charity work.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Jon87 said:


> I can't even begin to Fathom Why people want to Carry Guns around with them. I was raised to See weapons as two things
> 1) for hunting . 2 ) Last Resort Protection for POLICE officers. .
> 
> I have 3 Uncles and a Father who are /are retired Officers , and I dont feel any normal citizen needs to be walking around with a Gun. that would absolutely Scare the sh*t out of me knowing Im having dinner and someone brings in A Gun , Never mind Several and an Assault Rifle.
> ...


I have no problem if you choose not to carry/use firearms, but your logic is flawed. Last resort protection for police officers? I suppose the cops where you live are armed? You travel the same roads they do, you go into the same banks, stores, stations, so forth-- so only government employees are allowed a last resort for defense?? Even though you are in the same places that they are?
The point of firearms is 1. self defense against criminals 2. self defense against governmental attack 3.self defense against foreign governments 4.hunting

I assume by your respone you have never been the victim of violent crime?

But your point that you are scared of law abiding citizens being armed is taken, and that is why I do not believe in open carry, it should be concealed so as not to disturb the sheep-people. So when the chips are down, and the bad guys are after us, I will save myself and my family, you can take care of yourself.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Jon87 said:


> I can't comment on american police officers , But here most cops are pretty big and tough.


That is a concern here in the US.

Lately most police departments are hiring based more on GPA than on toughness/temperment.

My local department has a new (less than a year) officerette- She is 4'11" and I'd guess about 90 pounds. I know how tall she is, as she is the same exact height as my 9 year old.

I have observed her on several traffic stops, and it is apparent she is scared out of her mind. I truly worry about her and feel that she will be the injured/cause injury due to her lack of temperment and self confidence. I feel that on appearance alone, she will inspire criminals to resist and confront her.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Jon87 said:


> ^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


Im not a victim , I just feel at a slight disadvantage When a P*SSY brings a Gun to a knife fight. Anyone can bring a down a man with a Gun , why not fight with your Fists like a real man would ?

and not everyone is in the same frame of mind , what might warrant someone to use a Gun , may seem completely irrational to another Open carrier. No wonder why the USA has one of the Highest murder rates with FireArms in the World. something close to 10,000 a year.

I was driving through Detroit with my girlfriend a Few years back , we were on our way to Cedarpoint in Ohio, Some Dude with a beat up car was Driving on the Highway , I looked over and He had a shotgun on his dashboard , the Gun pointed out the passenger side window.

I almost called 911 , but I didnt want to Ruin my vacation , so I was like f*ck that , not my country not my problem. Where was he going, Shopping ? , lunch with his friends ? to pick his kids up ? a Bank Robbery ? How can you tell the Difference when Having a Shotgun in your car is legal.

I hope that the United states tightens up on these Open Carry Policies , it just seems absolutely crazy. 
YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN OUT IN PUBLIC , I dont care How scared CNN makes you feel. YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN IN PUBLIC.

Ive been Robbed in some Fucked up Ghetto in Ohio , Guy Didnt pull a Gun on me . Robbed me with a Knife. He was nice about it too. f*ck it was $40 Bucks whoop dee doo. Now imagine if I had a Gun in my Holster , imagine where that could have gone...

I could have lost more than $40 that day. and so could have he.
[/quote]

Like a real man huh?? So what if that guy would have shanked you ass that day?? I carry to protect myself when my life is threatened, not to settle a bar fight. Your entire logic is a big fail. Ever had a gun in your face??? That feeling will change your mind on carrying.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Im Canadian and where not pussies and were tough and we dont need guns.

Im just kidding, carrying a concealed handgun in public is perfectly understandable. The only thing is these open carry situations get kind of crazy sometimes. I think that having a pistol for protection is perfectly fine, but I do not agree with the owning of automatic weapons like assault rifles and things. That's just too crazy !


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

SeedlessOne said:


> ^^ f*ck being a victim. Dude sh*t happens all the time and I want to be able the protect myself if needed. That is why I carry.


Im not a victim , I just feel at a slight disadvantage When a P*SSY brings a Gun to a knife fight. Anyone can bring a down a man with a Gun , why not fight with your Fists like a real man would ?

and not everyone is in the same frame of mind , what might warrant someone to use a Gun , may seem completely irrational to another Open carrier. No wonder why the USA has one of the Highest murder rates with FireArms in the World. something close to 10,000 a year.

I was driving through Detroit with my girlfriend a Few years back , we were on our way to Cedarpoint in Ohio, Some Dude with a beat up car was Driving on the Highway , I looked over and He had a shotgun on his dashboard , the Gun pointed out the passenger side window.

I almost called 911 , but I didnt want to Ruin my vacation , so I was like f*ck that , not my country not my problem. Where was he going, Shopping ? , lunch with his friends ? to pick his kids up ? a Bank Robbery ? How can you tell the Difference when Having a Shotgun in your car is legal.

I hope that the United states tightens up on these Open Carry Policies , it just seems absolutely crazy. 
YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN OUT IN PUBLIC , I dont care How scared CNN makes you feel. YOU DO NOT NEED A GUN IN PUBLIC.

Ive been Robbed in some Fucked up Ghetto in Ohio , Guy Didnt pull a Gun on me . Robbed me with a Knife. He was nice about it too. f*ck it was $40 Bucks whoop dee doo. Now imagine if I had a Gun in my Holster , imagine where that could have gone...

I could have lost more than $40 that day. and so could have he.
[/quote]

Like a real man huh?? So what if that guy would have shanked you ass that day?? I carry to protect myself when my life is threatened, not to settle a bar fight. Your entire logic is a big fail. Ever had a gun in your face??? That feeling will change your mind on carrying.
[/quote]

Not everyone who Openly carry's a gun will know when its necessary or not to use it. it seems like it would escalate a situation well beyond where it should have gone in the first place. We don't have to worry about it here , like i Said its alot different in Canada , But what works for some , wont work for all.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Jon87 said:


> Not everyone who Openly carry's a gun will know when its necessary or not to use it. it seems like it would escalate a situation well beyond where it should have gone in the first place.


What if you're not the one doing the escalating? What if the guy doesn't just want money? What if he's pissed off at the world and just decides to stick your ass because you were the first person he saw? What if it's some gang banger out to kill you to get initiated into some gang? I can think of a thousand scenarios where the guy shooting/waving a knife at you is doing it for the sake of killing not just to make you afraid. 
I find people who say "just call the police" amusing. Do you think they're just going to magically teleport to the scene the instant you dial 911 (or the Canadian equivalent thereof)? For that matter, do you think you're even going to have 30+ seconds to pull a phone out of your pocket, dial it, and scream to the operator what's going on and where you are? I can put a hundred rounds downrange and mostly on target in 30 seconds......


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Jon87 said:


> We don't have to worry about it here


Yes, be good little subjects up there, and when your government picks another freedom that you don't need to worry about, just sit back and relax, nothing you can do about it anyway.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Jon87 said:


> Ive been Robbed in some Fucked up Ghetto in Ohio , Guy Didnt pull a Gun on me . Robbed me with a Knife. He was nice about it too. f*ck it was $40 Bucks whoop dee doo. Now imagine if I had a Gun in my Holster , imagine where that could have gone...
> 
> I could have lost more than $40 that day. and so could have he


Yes imagine, you lived only because some robber decided to let you live. If he chose to kill you, then you die. Sure $40 is not worth his life, but it is not worth mine either. You can live your life at the will of some punk, but not me. And yes, pull a knife and rob me, and I will shoot him. I will not let some crack head decide if I live or die.

Grow up kid.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> I can't even begin to Fathom Why people want to Carry Guns around with them. I was raised to See weapons as two things
> 1) for hunting . 2 ) Last Resort Protection for POLICE officers. .
> 
> I have 3 Uncles and a Father who are /are retired Officers , and I dont feel any normal citizen needs to be walking around with a Gun. that would absolutely Scare the sh*t out of me knowing Im having dinner and someone brings in A Gun , Never mind Several and an Assault Rifle.
> ...


I have no problem if you choose not to carry/use firearms, but your logic is flawed. Last resort protection for police officers? I suppose the cops where you live are armed? You travel the same roads they do, you go into the same banks, stores, stations, so forth-- so only government employees are allowed a last resort for defense?? Even though you are in the same places that they are?
The point of firearms is 1. self defense against criminals 2. self defense against governmental attack 3.self defense against foreign governments 4.hunting

I assume by your respone you have never been the victim of violent crime?

But your point that you are scared of law abiding citizens being armed is taken, and that is why I do not believe in open carry, it should be concealed so as not to disturb the sheep-people. So when the chips are down, and the bad guys are after us, I will save myself and my family, you can take care of yourself.
[/quote]

this post is a bit off base...

nothing in the constitution says you have the right to carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals, OR for hunting...the purpose of the second amendment is solely rested on your #2 reason for owning a gun...im not disagreeing with you, im just saying, there's 1 reason that you have a right to own a firearm...and it aint for hunting.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

His Majesty said:


> utterly no need to walk into a resturant packing rifles. they were asking for trouble.


Its Michigan.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Bleh, I have no problem with open carry either. They choose to be known whereas I prefer to keep mine concealed. There's merits to both ideologies.

Occasions that warrant a bbq gun or church gun are good examples. Let me explain what they are and what their purpose is first. Church guns are blued or stainless with little or no engraving, stocks should be understated fancy wood, and carry gear shouldn't be flashy, and are worn for formal occasions like church or a funeral. BBQ guns are the opposite. They're for showing off so they should at least be polished stainless with lots of engraving, and fancy carry gear with lots of American history and/or Southern style designs. These are used for celebrations or social gatherings like bbq's, weddings, parties, or company picnics.

My point is if you've ever been to one of these functions you'll notice that when a lot of people are carrying openly that there's no asshatery. It's actually a lot of fun. Everyone has a good time and there's never any trouble.


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## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

Piranha_man said:


> I think I'm gonna start walking around town with a compound bow and quiver of arrows.


Lol woudl be good timing with the new Robin Hood moviue coming out. Yeah someone already said it but made me laugh. What about soem hand grenades or those totally illegal? I dont knwo I dont own a gun. Yeah I know I live in Vermont and Pretty much any truck around here has a gun rack with a couple rifles but you dont see AKs mounted. I dont have a problem with open carry. I think you might have an issue if you feel the need to carry an assault gun around with you though. Hand gun not so much. Bow and arrows depends on the time of year lol. Well at least they were smart enough not to wear masks.....


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

so you mean i cant bring my M1 with me to Arbys? ... dang, what if someone tries to rob me?


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

they were just trying to make a scene....no one open carries a ar-15 around for personal protection, just douchebags who think they're doing good but in fact are doing more to get our rights taken away.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Boobah said:


> they were just trying to make a scene....*no one open carries a ar-15* around for personal protection, just douchebags who think they're doing good but in fact are doing more to get our rights taken away.


you never know, a super villian like the joker could try to rob the place armed with rocket launchers and ak47s... would you want just a glock in that situation?


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

When I was a little kid I used to walk around with my "Spiderman Web Shooter."
It was a spring loaded suction cup thingy with a white thread that would join between your 'target' and your wrist...

I gotta admit, it may have been a little aggressive and out of line, but I wore that thing in public MANY times!








(And yeah... I felt like a mega badass!)


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

My comments are not to argue with someones right to carry a gun...concealed or not. It is simply that if I was a patron of that restaurant and had my family with me....I wouldnt return. True or not...you read a lot unintentional discharges of a weapon...and even though the risk is minute...it would be more then I would want to face my children. It would be no different if I brought my kids to a park and there were pitbulls running around off leash....that is not the place I would want my family.

I would just see having firearms in a restaurant bad for business.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> My comments are not to argue with someones right to carry a gun...concealed or not. It is simply that if I was a patron of that restaurant and had my family with me....I wouldnt return. True or not...you read a lot unintentional discharges of a weapon...and even though the risk is minute...it would be more then I would want to face my children. *It would be no different if I brought my kids to a park and there were pitbulls running around off leash*....that is not the place I would want my family.
> 
> I would just see having firearms in a restaurant bad for business.


Dude for real?? LOL that is the most retarded thing Ive ever seen you post.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

if i want to go to outback steak house and bring my bazooka or surface to air missles, why shouldnt I? its my constitutional right god damn it.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

SeedlessOne said:


> My comments are not to argue with someones right to carry a gun...concealed or not. It is simply that if I was a patron of that restaurant and had my family with me....I wouldnt return. True or not...you read a lot unintentional discharges of a weapon...and even though the risk is minute...it would be more then I would want to face my children. *It would be no different if I brought my kids to a park and there were pitbulls running around off leash*....that is not the place I would want my family.
> 
> I would just see having firearms in a restaurant bad for business.


Dude for real?? LOL that is the most retarded thing Ive ever seen you post.








[/quote]
Yup...I am serious. You might be willing to risk your kid because the reason that breed is misunderstood is because of the actions of the owners...but I wouldnt be. If I dont know the owner of the dog...I am certainly not going to let it alone with my kid. I would feel the same if it were any breed of dog that had been bred to protect or attack. I just choose pitbulls because it seems that most irresponsible owners gravitate toward that breed. You rarely see some lowlife drug dealer with a pug.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Nick G said:


> if i want to go to outback steak house and bring my bazooka or surface to air missles, why shouldnt I? its my constitutional right god damn it.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> My comments are not to argue with someones right to carry a gun...concealed or not. It is simply that if I was a patron of that restaurant and had my family with me....I wouldnt return. True or not...you read a lot unintentional discharges of a weapon...and even though the risk is minute...it would be more then I would want to face my children. *It would be no different if I brought my kids to a park and there were pitbulls running around off leash*....that is not the place I would want my family.
> 
> I would just see having firearms in a restaurant bad for business.


Dude for real?? LOL that is the most retarded thing Ive ever seen you post.








[/quote]
Yup...I am serious. You might be willing to risk your kid because the reason *that breed is misunderstood is because of the actions of the owners*...but I wouldnt be. If I dont know the owner of the dog...I am certainly not going to let it alone with my kid. I would feel the same if it were any breed of dog that had been bred to protect or attack. I just choose pitbulls because it seems that most irresponsible owners gravitate toward that breed. You rarely see some lowlife drug dealer with a pug.
[/quote]

Maybe I was jumping the gun a little with my last comment as I am glad that is the way you feel and not the breed itself.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> My comments are not to argue with someones right to carry a gun...concealed or not. It is simply that if I was a patron of that restaurant and had my family with me....I wouldnt return. True or not...you read a lot unintentional discharges of a weapon...and even though the risk is minute...it would be more then I would want to face my children. *It would be no different if I brought my kids to a park and there were pitbulls running around off leash*....that is not the place I would want my family.
> 
> I would just see having firearms in a restaurant bad for business.


Dude for real?? LOL that is the most retarded thing Ive ever seen you post.








[/quote]
Yup...I am serious. You might be willing to risk your kid because the reason that breed is misunderstood is because of the actions of the owners...but I wouldnt be. If I dont know the owner of the dog...I am certainly not going to let it alone with my kid. I would feel the same if it were any breed of dog that had been bred to protect or attack. I just choose pitbulls because it seems that most irresponsible owners gravitate toward that breed. *You rarely see some lowlife drug dealer with a pug.*[/quote]








funny image


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

maddyfish said:


> The point of firearms is 1. self defense against criminals 2. self defense against governmental attack 3.self defense against foreign governments 4.hunting


you totally forgot a few dude.
5. martians
6. monkeys 
7. people who cut you off on the road.
8. spiders on your ceiling you cant reach with a broom.
9. scooping peanut butter.
10. rap videos
etc.
i could go on.....


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i should point out, i have no problem with open carry, in the right circumstance...

if im in maine out in the woods, and i go into a backwoods breakfast place serving up eggs and burnt coffee to all the hunters in deer season, and i see people there with hunting rifles, and packing shiny colts on their hips...im not offended...im actually intrigued, and most likely will stir up some sort of conversation about their firearms...likes/dislikes.

but if im in downtown boston and i go to grab a latte at starbucks and there's one dude in the corner with tatoo's and a bandana packing a huge S&W 500 and a AR-15 with an ammo belt slung across his torso, sporting a shirt that says "dont tread on me", most likely i'll keep my distance...


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

r1dermon said:


> but if im in downtown boston and i go to grab a latte at starbucks and there's one dude in the corner with tatoo's and a bandana packing a huge S&W 500 and a AR-15 with an ammo belt slung across his torso, sporting a shirt that says "dont tread on me", most likely i'll keep my distance...


but what about if someone cuts you off in line?


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

lmao...that kinda reminded me of the scene in role models where the dude gets in a bitch fest with the starbucks chick. haha.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

HAHA. yeah that was great.

this thread reminds me of this episode-


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

r1dermon said:


> but if im in downtown boston and i go to grab a latte at starbucks and there's one dude in the corner with tatoo's and a bandana packing a huge S&W 500 and a AR-15 with an ammo belt slung across his torso, sporting a shirt that says "dont tread on me", most likely i'll keep my distance...


Who are you and why the f*ck are you following me to Starbucks?


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

r1dermon said:


> i should point out, i have no problem with open carry, in the right circumstance...
> 
> if im in maine out in the woods, and i go into a backwoods breakfast place serving up eggs and burnt coffee to all the hunters in deer season, and i see people there with hunting rifles, and packing shiny colts on their hips...im not offended...im actually intrigued, and most likely will stir up some sort of conversation about their firearms...likes/dislikes.
> 
> but if im in downtown boston and i go to grab a latte at starbucks and there's one dude in the corner *with tatoo's and a bandana packing a huge S&W 500 and a AR-15 with an ammo belt slung across his torso, sporting a shirt that says "dont tread on me*", most likely i'll keep my distance...


Or if it's a black guy with his pants falling off his ass, a sideways hat on, wearing a white T that is 3 inches above is shoes, a gold chain that is so long that the 6 inch $ charm is on his pelvis, and his coat has a huge hood that is lined with some type of fur.............

Guys the people who are open carrying are not the same people who commit crimes. Hell if anything you should feel safer since you know you are not in the company of felons. Generally they don't let felons own guns, so I doubt they would risk showing you they have them.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Nick G said:


> The point of firearms is 1. self defense against criminals 2. self defense against governmental attack 3.self defense against foreign governments 4.hunting


you totally forgot a few dude.
5. martians
6. monkeys 
7. people who cut you off on the road.
8. spiders on your ceiling you cant reach with a broom.
9. scooping peanut butter.
10. rap videos
etc.
i could go on.....
[/quote]

You're both wrong the number 1 reason is Zombies.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> You're both wrong the number 1 reason is Zombies.


Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

damn i totally forgot about zombies.

funny, i had a dream last night that i was in a zombie apocalypse... it was mad scary.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Gun shots will only bring more zombies.

Number one reason I should be able to buy a silencer can no questions asked.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

ok, except the black guy you just described isn't flaunting a gun around like he's an army ranger...


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