# NEED URGENT HELP - Piranhas upside and dying



## magicprincess707 (Aug 18, 2005)

I had 4 large red bellies about 10 - 12 inches in length. About 2 months ago one died, unexpectedly. It was swiming tail up, then upside down, and over one night it died. Everyone told me that is could be do to a swim bladder injury. About 4 days ago, another one of my fish died in the same manner, and now I have one swimming upside down as I type this dying as well. This can not be caused by a swim bladder injury, because all of them are dying in such short time. They are about 4 years old and have been doing just fine up until now (I have raised them since they were babies.)

Could they have gotten some sort of swim bladder disease or illness? It's hard to imagine that every single one of them is dying to to an injury. I have used Melaphix/Primafix in the past to help heal their external injuries like open gashes, but now they tank is completely empty. What sort of illness or disease can be causing all of them to die off so quickly? I have one piranha left (not counting the currently dying one) and I want to know what I can do to save him. I have did 100% complete water change thinking that maybe something in there could be poinoning them. I also stopped feeding them for a few days (suggestion that maybe constapation is causing them to get swim bladder problems.) The whole "feed them peas" thing is a joke (no piranha will eat peas, no matter how hungry they are.) I used to feed them whole fish for the market, but in the fear that that could be poisoning them or making them sick, I have switch over to feeding them frozen whole shrimp.

I desparately need help. I also have a large sucker fish (about 16 - 18 inches in length) that has been living with them their whole lives, and he seems to be doing fine. He basically eats what the piranhas eat.


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## ELREYDENJ83 (Jun 25, 2008)

a couple of things come to mind. first you should not be doing 100% water changes. also could it be possible that bones from the whole fish that you used to feed them could have caused some problems? i doubt it but just throwing it out there.


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## magicprincess707 (Aug 18, 2005)

ELREYDENJ83 said:


> a couple of things come to mind. first you should not be doing 100% water changes. also could it be possible that bones from the whole fish that you used to feed them could have caused some problems? i doubt it but just throwing it out there.


i typically only do 10 -25% water changes, but after the first one died I was scared that something has gotten into the water to poison them. The first I feed them are smaller then they are, and I cut the tail and heads off since I noticed that they never ate those. I doubt the fish bones were the problem, as I have been feeding them fresh fish since they were little and they have been fine up until now. The first one dies a couple of months ago, one died about 4 or 5 days ago, and one if dying right now.


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

Can you test your water params and post them. How long ago did you do the 100% change?


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

sounds to me more like a water quality issue, maybe amonia poisoning or nitrate / nitite poisoning. what are your water perams?

if your doing 100% water changes your tank is not getting a chance to cycle


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

Are they breathing really hard or anything? That could be a sign of brown blood disease.


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## magicprincess707 (Aug 18, 2005)

cobrafox46 said:


> Are they breathing really hard or anything? That could be a sign of brown blood disease.


anomia levels are between 0 and .25, nitrite is at 0, water temp around 74, did the 100% water change about 5 days ago when the second one died. I also use add salt to their water (1Tbs to every 10 gallons).

I have noticed that thay have been breathing out of their mouths really hard these last few days, and they coloration would fluctuate and turn very pale at times.


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## NTcaribe (Apr 8, 2004)

ammonia shoud always be at 0


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

With a fully cycled tank, aren't you supposed to have at least some nitrites?


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Slytooth13 said:


> With a fully cycled tank, aren't you supposed to have at least some nitrites?


No. 
Up to around 40ppm of nitrates is fine but a fully cycled tank's nitrite and ammonia levels should be zero'd out. 
.25 ppm Ammonia doesn't sound like enough to be lethal. I'm thinking you have that due to such a large water change. Tank have gravel or is it bare bottum?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Never do 100% water changes unless you acclimate them slowly back to the new water like new purchases. Since more than one has experienced this problem it is easy to assume you have a internal bacterial infection going on whether its because live food was introduced that turned bad, or water was neglected here or there, or could be a lack of nutrition and the fish became weak and became susceptible to the pathogens that are in your water column. . Dont write the pea thing as a joke. There are ways to have the fish eat them like stuffing it in a piece of beef heart or a chunk of catfish. Since we do not know exactly what type of bacteria it is a broad spectrum antibiotic med food would probably be best to treat. What were your other tests for pH and nitrates before the large water change, after the 100% water change tests dont mean much until a couple weeks pass by. I feel your frustration, there is nothing worse than fish dieing on you and you dont know why. Been there plenty of times myself.


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## PELIGROSO PYGO (Aug 27, 2008)

it has something to do with the water.. check to see if everything is balanced AND NEVER DO 100% WATER CHANGES! 25% tops...


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

Has to be something internal.


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## magicprincess707 (Aug 18, 2005)

ok... so two of my babies ended up dying that day i originally posted this thread, and the last one died a day after... all died the same way... started going tail up and upside down. All i have left is the pleco/sucker fish. Something had to have happened internally because I have had these fish for about 4 years in the same tank and they have been thriving very well until this sudden mass death of the 4 of them...


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

That sucks, sorry to hear about your fish Princess.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Sorry about your loss there!


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## PYRO ZOOTS (Aug 23, 2008)

sorry to hear


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

hey all things die one day i mean is it possile a 4 year piranha would die from old age?


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Sorry to hear that.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Parsa said:


> hey all things die one day i mean is it possile a 4 year piranha would die from old age?


Actually, with proper care I've read on here they can live up to 20 years or so.


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