# Need some advice



## b_ack51

My friend is selling me his old 30 gallon salt water reef/coral tank. Its nothing huge but I figured I wanted something in the house, been a couple years since I've been in fish keeping and never done salt water before.

The nice thing is my friend has his tank established and I'll be able to get it at the end of April. He's selling me the tank, stand, filtration, everything else I need, sand, live rock, etc. I just need to transport it to my house and add fish and anemoes. (sp)

So what can I put in a 30 gallon tank. I want just to have a peaceful community going on. What creatures do I need/can I have?

all and any advice is welcome. I know its a small tank so I am limited, but I wanted something small and for less than $200 I believe I'm getting a descent deal.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

What kind of lighting is it coming with? If it has a good light it will allow you to keep a lot of the more interesting stuff.


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## b_ack51

Let me try to find out tonight. I'll see what kind of details he can give me.


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## His Majesty

you gonna gor for a full on reef setup or are you leaning more towards the fowlr setup
if its a reef lighting does matter as it determines what you can get.
the easier to keep corals are the zoos, mushroom coral, brain, and polyps.

as for fish you have quite a nice selection to go for in 30 gallon.
it all depends on what you like.
if you want it to be peaceful a pair of clownfish would be the obviose choice.
dwarf angel
toby puffer
scorpionfish but you have to be careful may snack on some of the smaller fish
leaf fish are also nice.

as you can see im being a little biased towards the slightly more predatory fish :laugh:

there are alot of reef safe wrasse you can get. six line wrasse are pretty cool


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## b_ack51

Trigger lover said:


> you gonna gor for a full on reef setup or are you leaning more towards the fowlr setup
> if its a reef lighting does matter as it determines what you can get.
> the easier to keep corals are the zoos, mushroom coral, brain, and polyps.
> 
> as for fish you have quite a nice selection to go for in 30 gallon.
> it all depends on what you like.
> if you want it to be peaceful a pair of clownfish would be the obviose choice.
> dwarf angel
> toby puffer
> scorpionfish but you have to be careful may snack on some of the smaller fish
> leaf fish are also nice.
> 
> as you can see im being a little biased towards the slightly more predatory fish :laugh:
> 
> there are alot of reef safe wrasse you can get. six line wrasse are pretty cool


I'll have to go find pics of what you posted for fish.

I might go peaceful coral reef, but a little predatory fish with a coral reef would be sweet.


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## nismo driver

b_ack51 said:


> you gonna gor for a full on reef setup or are you leaning more towards the fowlr setup
> if its a reef lighting does matter as it determines what you can get.
> the easier to keep corals are the zoos, mushroom coral, brain, and polyps.
> 
> as for fish you have quite a nice selection to go for in 30 gallon.
> it all depends on what you like.
> if you want it to be peaceful a pair of clownfish would be the obviose choice.
> dwarf angel
> toby puffer
> scorpionfish but you have to be careful may snack on some of the smaller fish
> leaf fish are also nice.
> 
> as you can see im being a little biased towards the slightly more predatory fish :laugh:
> 
> there are alot of reef safe wrasse you can get. six line wrasse are pretty cool


I'll have to go find pics of what you posted for fish.

I might go peaceful coral reef, but a little predatory fish with a coral reef would be sweet.
[/quote]

kind of limited for preditory fish that small and even tougher for reef safe.

you could go for a dwarf angel, they arent really "preditory" and there sometimes not "reef safe" depending on what kind of reef and what other inhabitants but they are active and colorful.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Get a pair of Picasso or B/W Clownfish not only do they look cool but they are hardy aswell, and are reef safe


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## b_ack51

Okay. Got some more info, not much. He told me they were T5 lights. I got the protein skimmer at home, he says its a cheap one but it works for the 30 gallons.

Hopefully soon I'll get the set up from him, he was saying end of april beginning of may.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

T5 is the way to go but it depends on which fixture it is and if the bulbs have individual reflectors. How many bulbs on it?


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## b_ack51

E-THUG said:


> T5 is the way to go but it depends on which fixture it is and if the bulbs have individual reflectors. How many bulbs on it?


I believe there might be 2 bulbs, I will find out next weekend as I'm picking it up from him then.

Just gotta fix this seaclone protein skimmer. I guess the o-ring isnt good cause the water drips from it. So off to lowes this week to look for the correct oring.


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## b_ack51

b_ack51 said:


> T5 is the way to go but it depends on which fixture it is and if the bulbs have individual reflectors. How many bulbs on it?


I believe there might be 2 bulbs, I will find out next weekend as I'm picking it up from him then.

Just gotta fix this seaclone protein skimmer. I guess the o-ring isnt good cause the water drips from it. So off to lowes this week to look for the correct oring.
[/quote]

woo hoo got the correct o-ring. got it right on the second try.

Question: What does the protein skimmer actually do? I didn't really see it doing anything, is there supposed to be some filter or media in it? Or does it just "twirl" water?


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## His Majesty

It pulls out organic gunk (not technical term) from the water. In my opinion it is essential for all tanks that have coral in them but nor FW or FOWLR setups. It pretty much cleans the water. Not in the same way a filter works in a FW system. it also oxygenates the water

here is a slightly more detailed explanation if you want to know more. not my explanation









As organic waste breaks down (fish poo, uneaten food, etc) it is converted through a cycle into nitrates. Many corals will not do well with high nitrates. The skimmer uses a process in much the same way the foam in an ocean wave works. When the air is injected it bonds with the protein and then floats to the top and overflows into the skimmer collection cup to be removed. It keeps all that nasty stuff from even having a chance to break down as it's removed before it becomes nitrates.

Common terms are skimming "wet" or "dry" and basically refers to the amount of skimmate being produced. Wet skimming will usually produce an olive green gunk more quickly than Dry skimming which can produce dark brown to black sticky gunk. With wet skimming you'll have to empty the cup more and closely monitor the salinity of the tank as it does remove some salt water as well, where with dry skimming you'll have to empty the cup less, but it will be nastier and more concentrated.


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## Ægir

Give me a second here B_ack... i have a great Seaclone article for you to read if i can find it... They are fairly renound for being CRAP but with a few simple mods you can get them to work alright for smaller tanks... if i cant find it i will tell you how myself









Ok.. heres one article that kina covers it clicky

Basically you will be doing a few simple things to improve bubble size (by improve i mean smaller!)... either a mesh wheel on the pump, or even a bio-ball cut down works but the mesh is the way to go! and adding a good air valve to control the air intake... also using a glove or larger O ring to seal where the collection cup sits on the skimmer body helping to force the stuff out the top.

On my old seaclone, i used the mesh mod, the o ring mod, and shortened the riser tube (not worth the time or breaking the skimmer) and it would fill the collection cup in a day or two... i also added a drain to the skimmer cup so the skimmate would drain into a pop bottle and make it easier to empty

Take a few pictures of that bad boy and i will try to label the pics and run you through it as best as possible


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## b_ack51

Thanks skunk. I was actually thinking when reading your post that i should post pics up of the skimmer. My friend said it was junk but only need an o-ring to fix it. He said it did a good enough job on his small tank but he upgraded to a 90 gallon and got a better one. (not sure what he got). Either way I got it for free, well technically about $3 for the oring.

I'll post pics of it when I get home.

Thanks for the explanation too, my friend texted me "U need skimmer to remove poop". I guess his short explanation was correct. (just thought of something, my friends nickname is skank and yours is skunk. f*cking weird sh*t)


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## Ægir

b_ack51 said:


> Thanks skunk. I was actually thinking when reading your post that i should post pics up of the skimmer. My friend said it was junk but only need an o-ring to fix it. He said it did a good enough job on his small tank but he upgraded to a 90 gallon and got a better one. (not sure what he got). Either way I got it for free, well technically about $3 for the oring.
> 
> I'll post pics of it when I get home.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation too, my friend texted me "U need skimmer to remove poop". I guess his short explanation was correct. (just thought of something, my friends nickname is skank and yours is skunk. f*cking weird sh*t)


Hahaha... either skanky or skunky and you got some good friends! Seaclones are kinda flawed (the whole cyclone concept is kinda pointless) but can work if you are on a budget... mine worked on my 55gal for some time, although not ideal it cost 50$ and helped me get through a few months until i upgraded...

Just thought of what it was that really helped my seaclone too! Get those pics up and i will try to run you through it.... should be able to do it all in an hour or so, and off the top of my head you will need:

Drill and drill bits 
Air pump (old one lying around)
Airline tubing
The hard airline thats clear (for ugly errr under gravel filters)
a good airline adjuster (something with super fine adjustment makes it easier, i found a brass one at my LFS)
and a good airstone, pref wooden if you can find a couple, but anything that makes super fine bubbles will work! 
A piece of scrubbie or mesh for the impeller wheel, and some fishing line to attach it!
oh, and a rubber glove or o ring to seal the collection cup...

in the future when you go to home depot or something pick up a 3/8" MPT hose adapter to add a drain to the collection cup, and some hose to run it into a pop bottle or something on the side... not necessary but helps tremendously with cleaning that prick out

Think that about covers it!


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## b_ack51

pics of the protein skimmer and powerhead


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## Ægir

Ok, First mod i would recommend is adding another source of bubbles. It helped my skimmer dramatically, and is worth the 5 minutes it takes to put together.

Drill a hole the size of the hard airline tubing in the center of the collection cup lid. you want it to be tight! Run the piece of rigid airline to the very bottom of the skimmer. Now would be a good time to find a good airstone... i have tried everything from using 6" of the "bubble wall", to the smaller stone ones and found that a good wooden one works great if you can find a few (they need to be changed, as they get water logged the bubbles get huge) just use what you have laying around! You want the airstone to be centered in the very bottom chamber where the pump inlet is, make sure your lid is secure and cut the rigid airline off about 1/2" above the lid.

Remove the collection cup off the top, take a rubber glove and cut about 3 1/2" of the "sleeve" (the part that is around your wrist) off, now roll it up into an "o ring" (like rolling up a condom hahaha) and slip it around the bottom of the collection cup that slides into the body of the skimmer.

Now take apart the pump to expose the impeller, you can use google and find how some other people did this mod but you are basically finding some flat faced mesh, like a scrubbie and cutting it to size and using fishing line to tie it to the impeller. This helps to break up the bubbles more before they are injected.

Add your new air adjustment valve, the one it comes with sucks! Then hook up your airpump and another valve between that and the tube installed in step 1. Now you can put the pump and clear tube on, hang it on your tank, and plug it in!

To dial it in, you want to open the air valve (on the powerhead) until you see a bubble start forming in the clear tube where it goes over the rim of the aquarium. You want the mixture moving through the tube as slow as possible, without trapping an air bubble at the top of the tube. The main problem with this skimmer is contact time, so you want to slow it down as much as possible! A small bubble is fine, but you dont want a huge dead area...

Now plug in your airpump hooked to the airstone... if you look through the side of the skimmer, about 3 or 4 inches up from the bottom, there is a "floating" inner part to the skimmer, i am sure you noticed it when you pulled the collection cup off... you can see the water flowing under this, and up the outer part of the body to the drain. Anyways you want to open your valve on the airstone until the bubbles are just about to start blowing under. If bubbles are flowing under, it just flows into your tank and makes a microbubble storm, so once they start going under the inner part back off the air to the airstone a little bit.

The next best thing is adding a drain to the collection cup, as its quite small and you can be emptying it daily depending on tank load. Its fairly simple to drill a hole (near the bottom of the collection cup) and screw in a MPT hose adapter, and some tubing to run it into a milk jug or something.

Let me know if you have any questions! and when it first fires up, it could take some time to break in


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## b_ack51

Yeah I got a million questions.

The one part I understood was drilling the whole in the lid for the airline and then adding an airpump. I didn't understand why to cut the airline 1/2 inch above the lid.


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## Ægir

b_ack51 said:


> Yeah I got a million questions.
> 
> The one part I understood was drilling the whole in the lid for the airline and then adding an airpump. I didn't understand why to cut the airline 1/2 inch above the lid.


FIRST clean that thing out with some vinegar and hot water...

you cut it 1/2" above the lid so you can attach your flexible airline to your air pump, and then to the piece of rigid airline that sticks above the lid... makes it easier to remove the lid and empty the collection cup as well

Drill small hole in center of lid

Run rigid airline with airstone attached through center of skimmer body, into bottom center of the "inlet" where the clear tube attaches from the pump.










Ok, so the blue would be the rigid airline down the center of the skimmer, with the airstone in the very bottom... The red box is the area you want to look for trapped bubbles when you finally fire it up.


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## b_ack51

okay now i get the point of the "rigid" airline and then the other airline. I'm pretty sure i can throw that mod together. I did get vinegar and tried to clean the other pipe with it. Next time I'll use hot water to help out


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## Ægir

b_ack51 said:


> okay now i get the point of the "rigid" airline and then the other airline. I'm pretty sure i can throw that mod together. I did get vinegar and tried to clean the other pipe with it. Next time I'll use hot water to help out


I would just clean the skimmer body and collection cup and call it good... That mod is extremely easy, and so is adding the mesh to the impeller! just google "mesh mod" and i am sure you will find tons of examples with pics. its the same concept as any of the other skimmer mods, just smaller for the maxi jet :nod: also if thats a MJ600 on there, you can replace it with the 1200 if you have one around...


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## b_ack51

I don't have any aquarium stuff sitting around anymore. I've sold everything multiple times. I can remember how many different tanks and piranhas I've had.

Now I'm just gonna use this small tank, take what my friend has and start small. (and stay small) I might upgrade the protein skimmer later, but right now I'm just worried about getting the tank set up and getting some fish in there. The tank is already set up and established at his place, I just gotta get it moved to my place next week. (couldn't move it this weekend)


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## b_ack51

woo hoo set the tank up yesterday. got some live rock in there. this week i'll probably be going to order some fish online. all the stores here are kinda expensive.

I'm thinking of getting a firefish goby, 2 clown fish, and a shrimp. plus some hermit crabs and snails


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## His Majesty

all sounds great. how much live rock you got at the moment?
throw up some pics when you have a chance.
thought of any corals your gonna get?


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## b_ack51

here are some bad pics. i haven't had a chance to clean the tank yet so don't bash. (haters :rasp: )

i know i have to pick the algae off the coral, which I'll get to. also gonna have to clean the glass and python the sand.


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## His Majesty

looking good so far.
and that glass needs a clean


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## b_ack51

yeah the back part of the glass has the dry water stains. i'll be cleaning it this week. just wanted to get the tank up and running. this week i'm gonna be ordering some stuff and fish.


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## Ægir

Hows that skimmer running so far? looks like it needs to have the air intake opened up (remember what i pointed out about air getting trapped in the clear tube from the pump? open it until you see that, then back it off a touch) And is that a Reena XP canister intake i see on the right side by the heater?

Is the reason your friend got rid of the tank because the entire thing looked like that rock with zoas or coral?

Just asking because i could see the canister turning into a huge nitrate bomb and fueling algae growth like that...

Looking good so far though!


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## b_ack51

Yeah its a rena xp2 cannister filter. I was planning on later upgrading to a 10 gallon sump or something like that.

Yeah I haven't modded the protein skimmer just yet. I was more in a rush to get the tank set up. I'm gonna work on the airline mod you were talking about. (let me go back and read your post about the air bubbles)

My friend got rid of the tank to upgrade to a 90 gallon tank. He was running both tanks and wanted to sell the smaller tank. Him and I always talk about tanks cause out of all of our friends, we're the only 2 with a tank. (or me i used to have a tank). He said he would help me out if I wanted his tank and supplies, so he can me this rock and coral. He's just been busy with getting his new tank that this tank suffered. So I just need to clean up the algae alittle bit and get this puppy rolling.

okay, i just made the bubbles go over the tube slower but they do keep going over (not stoppage) so I am good there. Just looking at hte protein skimmer i can see the "tornado" of bubbles in the protein skimmer. Also noticed less bubbles coming out of the output of the protein skimmer (no bubbles going into tank)

any recommendations on small little creatures to help with the green algae?


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## Ægir

As for adjusting the skimmer, just open it until you see the bubbles come to a complete stop almost in that first U bend, or in the last 90 where it enters the skimmer... you can have them completely stopped, you just dont want a large bubble to accumulate. SLOW it down as much as possible to increase contact time

Where are you planning on ordering livestock from? you might have to PM me regarding that cause im not sure about posting competitors of our sponsors... anyways for a clean up crew, you will want some snails that are sand dwelling (Nassarius i think they are) and a few turbos or certh snails to clean your glass... Personally i hate hermit crabs, they are bastards and always screw with things, and kill my snails... keep the number of hermits to 2 or 3 max (i have like 4 in my 155)

Serpent starfish are great, and i like my emerald crabs for eating hair algae (some people say they will kill fish if they can catch them)... I am sure you will have another mini cycle and algae bloom so once that dies off, you might need to find another home for some snails (mainly the turbos) but... get rid of that canister ASAP... it will become a problem if you dont clean it weekly

Tips for setting up a sump: watch ebay for an overflow box (i see them for 10-15$ all the time) and buy as big of a tank as you can fit under your stand... craigslist is great, just keep an eye out... Also that skimmer preforms better with the pump attached directly to the skimmer body (without that crappy clear tube) so moving that to the sump will help as well...


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## b_ack51

woo hoo. got my fish today.

2 x	False Percula Clownfish - Aquacultured	
1 x	Emerald Crab - Group of 3
1 x	Turbo/Astrea Snail - Group of 10	
1 x	Nassarius Snail - Group of 10
1 x	Serpent Starfish

don't worry, i'm giving 5 of each snail to my friends tank. the clownfish are sweet, bigger than i thought. just put everything in after 2 hours of accilmiation.


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## Grosse Gurke

Looking good..but like has been said...loose the canister...you dont need it. I would just get a couple powerheads to circulate the water around the rocks.


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## Ægir

b_ack51 said:


> woo hoo. got my fish today.
> 
> 2 x	False Percula Clownfish - Aquacultured
> 1 x	Emerald Crab - Group of 3
> 1 x	Turbo/Astrea Snail - Group of 10
> 1 x	Nassarius Snail - Group of 10
> 1 x	Serpent Starfish
> 
> don't worry, i'm giving 5 of each snail to my friends tank. the clownfish are sweet, bigger than i thought. just put everything in after 2 hours of accilmiation.


Awesome! i got mine today as well, they were even here before i woke up (11am)... Just a heads up 2 hours is a bit long to acclimate! I usually take 25 to 30 min if possible... my theory is the fish are already stressed out from being in a bag, the water in the bag is nowhere near the quality of water, and as long as the SG, temp and PH match exactly then you arent stressing the fish by leaving them in partially soiled water that is low in oxygen... once those params line up, i net my fish and dump them in as quick as possible... Once you start adding corals then light intensity, DKH, CA and all those other things come into play, so a longer acclimation is necessary

On the shipment i received this morning the SG was 1.011... yeah thats not a typo... so it took almost an hour to slowly bring that up using the drip method... but other than that everything looked great and pulled through


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## b_ack51

Grosse Gurke said:


> Looking good..but like has been said...loose the canister...you dont need it. I would just get a couple powerheads to circulate the water around the rocks.


no cannister at all. that's the only filter I have on the tank. Do I not need the cannister at all? Or are you saying replace it with a sump?

I'm trying to convince skunk to sell me his extra sump right now.


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## Ægir

b_ack51 said:


> Looking good..but like has been said...loose the canister...you dont need it. I would just get a couple powerheads to circulate the water around the rocks.


no cannister at all. that's the only filter I have on the tank. Do I not need the cannister at all? Or are you saying replace it with a sump?

I'm trying to convince skunk to sell me his extra sump right now.
[/quote]

I just took my old one out and cleaned it... was going to use it for an in sump refugium but couldn't end up fitting it under the stand wihtout some major plumbing repairs when i was done... Like i said in the PM man, shipping wouldnt be cheap because of the size.... I would bet you can find a tank on craigs list, and install baffles yourself for the price of me shipping it to you... i will take some measurments and call the shipping place to see what it would cost? i know the sump is almost identical to the SL-150B, but it could be the older SL-120B they dont make anymore (i would have to check the dimensions)

Amiracle Wet/dry

The only downfall is, i might not have the drip tray, or overflow box, and i have drilled 2 holes in it for drains... not ideal for your situation exactly but it could work if you cant find anything locally

Out of curiosity, what is the biggest tank you could fit inside the stand?


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## b_ack51

let me do some measuring and see what i can place under the tank in the sand.

i've been watching craigslist with no luck but will keep looking.


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## b_ack51

anyone have any good plans for building a sump? I've seen a few online and just want to see what the best option is. Chances are it'll have to be a small 10 gallon tank.


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## AKSkirmish

PhattyKins said:


> anyone have any good plans for building a sump? I've seen a few online and just want to see what the best option is. Chances are it'll have to be a small 10 gallon tank.


What ya want to no specific Sir?

Acouple good links on different aspects of it-

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=219465
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=205645
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=118131


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## b_ack51

Random question... how long do you leave your lights on? Or what hours?

I have the 10,000k 65 w and anctnic (i think 65w too). Just got new bulbs yesterday and timers too.

Also, AK... I didn't see sump plans on what you posted so I haven't had a chance to build the sump.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

moar rock


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## b_ack51

also, any ideas for any small fish/shrimp/whatever to eat algae. i got like long red hair algae and some green algae.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Maybe try those mexican turbos? In my case they dont really do crap if their is long stuff growing but keep the short algae mowed down. You can turn off your lights for a day or two or just brush it off, but its better to take care of the root of the problem in the water. Are you using RO/DI ?


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## b_ack51

E-THUG said:


> Maybe try those mexican turbos? In my case they dont really do crap if their is long stuff growing but keep the short algae mowed down. You can turn off your lights for a day or two or just brush it off, but its better to take care of the root of the problem in the water. Are you using RO/DI ?


Nah I haven't gotten an RO/DI yet. I was trying to find one of those filters to put on the faucet for now but couldn't find them on dr foster / smiths site.

I have those turbo snails, they do a great job but there was already some algae present when I got the tank, just trying to get rid of it.


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## His Majesty

get a conche those things are alage eating machines. got a couple of those myself. some can get pretty sizable and they have great coloured shells


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