# looking for a mangrove



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

im looking for a mangrove snake...preferably a hatchling...i've seen them at shows online for 25 bucks, but no shipping...anyone know of a place?


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2006)

I assume you know these are venomous.
Are you sure you want a venomous snake?


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

already checked into it. this is without a doubt, the best looking snake i've ever seen. they're mildly venemous and no deaths are associated with this snake, not to mention, both of my local hospital stocks the anti-venom for the mangrove. i plan on raising it from a hatchling, this was i can get used to its reach as it grows, i've got a snakehook, and a contraption for catching the snake and holding its head down while i grab its tail. i really wish it wasnt venemous, its definately the best looking snake i've ever seen, but so long as the venom alone cant kill me, it's fine by me. just hoping im not allergic. heh.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> already checked into it. this is without a doubt, the best looking snake i've ever seen. they're mildly venemous and no deaths are associated with this snake, not to mention, both of my local hospital stocks the anti-venom for the mangrove. i plan on raising it from a hatchling, this was i can get used to its reach as it grows, i've got a snakehook, and a contraption for catching the snake and holding its head down while i grab its tail. i really wish it wasnt venemous, its definately the best looking snake i've ever seen, but so long as the venom alone cant kill me, it's fine by me. just hoping im not allergic. heh.


They're really not a beginner snake even if the venom is only mild. They get to be 9' long,are nocturnal and are HIGHLY aggressive. I know you just got your first snake and now "have the bug" but you might want to wait a while on this one. Get yourself an nice Amazon tree boa and play with that for a while. Holding a snakes head down while grabbing the tail isn't the proper technique for handling any snake.


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## Carnivoro (Oct 12, 2003)

do you has experience with venomous ?


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i heard they were only aggressive when feeding...

what's a better technique?

i've got some decent reflexes, i've kept animals which bite quickly in the past, just no snakes. the mangrove is definately the best looking snake i've ever seen, and probably the only venemous snake i'd ever buy.

what would you suggest for something relatively fast and aggressive, which is non-venemous? only thing i've heard of is carpet pythons and an emerald boa. i wanna do it right...thanks for helping.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> i heard they were only aggressive when feeding...
> 
> what's a better technique?
> 
> ...


They're aggresive, flat out. Mainly when the lights go out but it's a relative thing. They can strike a long distance like any of the aboreal snakes. The 2/3rds body length strike range goes out the window with snakes that anchor themselves with their tail when striking. I don't care how fast your relexes are, they are probably faster in general and all it takes is a little distraction for you and you get bit. 
Better technique is knowing how to use 2 hooks or a hook and stick and not ever trying to head pin a snake. My recommendation is to check into Amazon tree boas, Corallus hortulanus. There are some beautiful color morphs, generally not too expensive, fast and they can be very snappy which will make you practice your hook work.


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## The Predator (Sep 28, 2005)

red tail boas are good


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

lol

Don't buy a mangrove, you're only going to bring negative publicity to the hot community. Besides, if this is your first snake I highly doubt you'll be able to care for it.

If you'd like to see a good looking non-venomous snake, check out green tree pythons or some other arboreal species.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2006)

If you like shiney black snakes, there are many safer alternatives to a mangrove snake. Captive-bred rat snakes are always the best snakes for new herp-keepers. My favorite is the black rat snake (elaphe obsoleta). I have seen wild specimens over six feet long. In the sunlight, their scales shimmer with a beautiful opalescence. Just a gorgeous animal.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

> lol
> 
> Don't buy a mangrove, you're only going to bring negative publicity to the hot community. Besides, if this is your first snake I highly doubt you'll be able to care for it.
> 
> If you'd like to see a good looking non-venomous snake, check out green tree pythons or some other arboreal species.


i appreciate your concern, but im a big boy, i can handle myself. i dont appreciate you assuming that i'll bring negative publicity to the hot community, you dont know me, if the snake had the potential to kill me, i wouldnt be looking for one, and i doubt that anybody gives a rats ass if someone gets bit by their "mildly" venemous snake, especially when there are no hospital records, since the affects fade after several days.

this is not my first snake, my first snake is being kept right now in a 10g tank, its a malaysian racer, the only reason im even contemplating a venemous snake is because it looks really cool. green tree pythons dont exactly tickle my fancy, especially at 500 dollars for a hatchling.

i know how to care for animals, i've read about snakes pretty much my whole life, i've just been restricted because my mom does day-care so no reptiles are allowed in the house by LAW. since i've got a secondary home, my options have opened greatly. i've never had anything die other than a fish, and that was because he was fed to piranhas. i've kept pets my whole life, and so i feel that you have no basis to judge me on.

i also feel like your response is generic, for instance, if i had come in here with bountiful experience with "hot" snakes, except not telling you, and then asking where to get a mangrove, you'd probably say the same exact thing...and not to "dis" you in any way, but you yourself are not part of the "hot" community, as i've seen in prior posts of yours, therefor you can't speak for them. if i want to get a king cobra, i will get a king cobra, if i want to get a shark, i will get a shark, if i want to get a lion, i will get a lion, and if i want to get a mangrove, i will get a mangrove.

i appreciate constructive posts, such as the ones bawb and bullsnake posted...in-fact, i've decided to wait on the mangrove, and build the enclosure i was planning on, and then fill it with an amazon tree boa. depending on how it works out, we will see about a mangrove after a year or two.

when i do things, i do them right, im not the kind of person who fins 70 bucks in his wallet and decides to get a pet. i set aside the funds for EVERYTHING i need in advance, and then build to the max i can afford. if i estimate beforehand that i can't afford a suitable enclosure for the pet im getting, then i will not get the pet. if i decide that i cannot properly care for an animal, i will not buy that animal for shear satisfaction of having it, rather, i will build my experience until i CAN take care of it, and decide if i want to be dedicated to it for the amount of time which it requires.

thanks for the posts so far, they've definately been informative and swayed my decision to hold off on a venemous snake for now. please dont judge me before you know me...that's all.


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## flyboy (May 11, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> if i decide that i cannot properly care for an animal, i will not buy that animal for shear satisfaction of having it, rather, i will build my experience until i CAN take care of it, and decide if i want to be dedicated to it for the amount of time which it requires.
> 
> thanks for the posts so far, they've definately been informative and swayed my decision to hold off on a venemous snake for now. please dont judge me before you know me...that's all.


It is good that you are holding off, build up experience like everyone has said. It will be better in the long run.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

flyboy, if you can't buy an animal without prior experience, then nobody would own animals, period.

secondly, you can't judge me based on what you know, becausewhat you know is nothing...i've had one snake, that's all you know right now. that's it. you dont know me, you dont know my experience with animals, you dont know anything except that i've had one snake. prior experience? ok, i've READ a lot about snakes, particularly venemous snakes and snakes which occur in north america, more specifically northeastern america. you cant tell someone who's buying a mustang that they're too immature to buy a mustang since they've never owned one before...can you?

i didnt realize that i shouldnt buy a snake based on the way it looks...why do you buy a snake? what do you base your decision on? the way it makes love? if you dont buy a snake based on how it looks, then why the hell do you buy a snake period?!?

im not acting like a child, you're acting like a child immediately jumping to conclusions about people when you have no basis for judgement. all i wanted were opinions, i havent gotten anything helpful except from bawb and bullsnake, seriously, lets pick this up a bit, dont tell me what i can and can't have, like i said, im an adult, im responsible for my actions, i decide what to do with my money.

im holding off because i've gotten advice from someone who has experience doing this type of stuff...people who tell me im irresponsible all the time immediately lose my respect, even before i've established any for them. again, i appreciate the advice i've gotten thus-far, but dont tell me what i want and what i dont want...im old enough to know what i want, and old enough to know that you dont know what i want, so unless you've got something constructive to say, keep it to yourself. thanks buddy!!!


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## flyboy (May 11, 2004)

You wanted opinions, and I gave you mine. What I meant by prior experience is that you do not go out and purchase an animal with special needs without first actually having hands on activity with such an animal. For example, I worked at an exotic pet shop last summer, and during my employment I received actual hands on experience with animals from common snakes such as Columbian red-tails, and medium sized monitors, to yellow anacondas, Large burms, Small retics, and Rattlers. I did not come into contact with the rattlers, for obvious reasons, but I learned how to safely care for such an animal. Now, with all this experience, I am no where near capable to actually own a large snake or hot snake. But you believe by just READING you have the knowledge to deal with potentially dangerous animals. Do you understand what I am saying? People buy alligators and large snakes all the time without experience and those animals for the majority die a miserable death, not to mention the deaths caused by hot snakes and large snakes. I am just trying to help you in the future from making rash decisions.

BTW, I take into account all aspects of an animal, that is what makes each animal special. Eating habits, coloration, attitude, size, difficulty of caring for, dificulty of breeding, and just my personal preferance.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

well, eating habits is not a decisive factor for me...everything has to eat, for snakes, they dont eat that often, so its not an issue unless you've got a retic or something huge. coloration is always a factor, as well as the shape, i hate obese snakes, snakes which are fat without being that long, such as blood pythons and such, long, slender snakes are what i like, the head shape as well as head coloration is a big deciding factor...habitat, im comfortable with recreating any habitat to the best of my ability on earth, so long as i've got the funds to do so, with that in mind, that's definately a factor, however, it's not very expensive to re-create an amazonian, desert, rainforest...etc...habitat in the grand scheme of things, quite cheap in-fact compared to a lot of other things. breeding, i dont breed pets, so that's never a factor for me, i'd never own a breeding pair of anything for the simple fact that it breeds. size usually isnt a factor, most of the snakes i like are fairly small, 10' or under and not very thick. anything over 10' in my opinion is not a pet, its a liability. just like a mangrove. it wouldnt be a "pet" it'd be more like a trophy specimin. something that is gorgeous, that not many people have, or have seen before.

you may not have the experience in your mind to handle a rattlesnake, but it all depends on the mindset. like driving a car really fast, some people can tune everything out and do it without killing people, and some people are retards and get scared, lock the brakes up, flip the car over and kill a mini-van with a family in it...how well do you do under pressure, that's what it boils down to.


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> i appreciate your concern, but im a big boy, i can handle myself. i dont appreciate you assuming that i'll bring negative publicity to the hot community, you dont know me, if the snake had the potential to kill me, i wouldnt be looking for one, and i doubt that anybody gives a rats ass if someone gets bit by their "mildly" venemous snake, especially when there are no hospital records, since the affects fade after several days.
> 
> this is not my first snake, my first snake is being kept right now in a 10g tank, its a malaysian racer, the only reason im even contemplating a venemous snake is because it looks really cool. green tree pythons dont exactly tickle my fancy, especially at 500 dollars for a hatchling.


You're right, I don't know you. But, I do know you've had no prior experience with hots or training. You could probably keep from getting bitten, but I'm sure that'd be by mistreating the snake. I don't care if it will kill you or not, you could have an allergic reaction to the venom for all you know, you might take in a "lethal" amount (doubtful), or you might just have to show up at the hospital and make an ass out of yourself saying you were bitten by a snake you weren't trained to care for.

Don't tell me it's not your first snake when you posted earlier that you've kept many animals, just no snakes. Please, don't go from a racer snake to a venomous snake... especially for all the wrong reasons (it looks cool).

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but merely the voice of reason. This is a bad idea.



> i also feel like your response is generic, for instance, if i had come in here with bountiful experience with "hot" snakes, except not telling you, and then asking where to get a mangrove, you'd probably say the same exact thing...and not to "dis" you in any way, but you yourself are not part of the "hot" community, as i've seen in prior posts of yours, therefor you can't speak for them. if i want to get a king cobra, i will get a king cobra, if i want to get a shark, i will get a shark, if i want to get a lion, i will get a lion, and if i want to get a mangrove, i will get a mangrove.


A generic response? Dude, you said that you'd had no experience with snakes in an earlier post before I posted. If you hadn't said anything about it, I would've asked before questioning your ability to keep a venomous snake.

Regardless if I'm a member of the hot community or not, I can tell you this is a bad idea and it will bring bad publicity to the hot community, hell, herpetology in general. Trust me, I've kept snakes for 10 years of my life, and if I could get training to keep hots I would. I know my share of information about them, and I plan on getting one when I turn 21 and expanding my collection there on out.



> i appreciate constructive posts, such as the ones bawb and bullsnake posted...in-fact, i've decided to wait on the mangrove, and build the enclosure i was planning on, and then fill it with an amazon tree boa. depending on how it works out, we will see about a mangrove after a year or two.


Good, thank you. Please feel free to ask any questions about them and I'll answer them to the best of my ability. Make sure when you buy them to check faunaclassifieds.com and make sure you're getting it from a reputable dealer.



> when i do things, i do them right, im not the kind of person who fins 70 bucks in his wallet and decides to get a pet. i set aside the funds for EVERYTHING i need in advance, and then build to the max i can afford. if i estimate beforehand that i can't afford a suitable enclosure for the pet im getting, then i will not get the pet. if i decide that i cannot properly care for an animal, i will not buy that animal for shear satisfaction of having it, rather, i will build my experience until i CAN take care of it, and decide if i want to be dedicated to it for the amount of time which it requires.


Well, I don't know you personally, but you definitely came off as that going from no snakes (or a racer) to a venomous, and also wanting one because it "looks cool". Well, that's good reasoning, but please the last thing you want to be with a venomous snake is overconfident.



> thanks for the posts so far, they've definately been informative and swayed my decision to hold off on a venemous snake for now. please dont judge me before you know me...that's all.


Hard not to judge you when it's another person wanting a venomous snake because it "looks cool". Not trying to come off as an ass, but sway you from what's most likely a mistake.


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

sh*t, didn't mean to hit the button... my bad


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

ill guarantee that there are other factors when it comes to buying snakes for most people, but the major factor has GOT to be looks. there's no way that people dont buy based mainly on looks for MOST snakes...some people are sick and like crazy venemous snakes which dont come off as strikingly beautiful...same with piranhas, people will say they look really beautiful, but in reality, its one ugly ass tetra with teeth, the only reason they bought them was to rip fish apart in front of their faces.

and i still believe your response is generic...i also want to know why you have to wait till you're 21... is that the age when you'll suddenly know how to handle one?








i dont mean to be a jackass, i just dont need people telling me what's good or bad for me and the "community"...


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

damnit....double post...


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

ill guarantee that there are other factors when it comes to buying snakes for most people, but the major factor has GOT to be looks. there's no way that people dont buy based mainly on looks for MOST snakes...some people are sick and like crazy venemous snakes which dont come off as strikingly beautiful...same with piranhas, people will say they look really beautiful, but in reality, its one ugly ass tetra with teeth, the only reason they bought them was to rip fish apart in front of their faces.

and i still believe your response is generic...i also want to know why you have to wait till you're 21... is that the age when you'll suddenly know how to handle one?








i dont mean to be a jackass, i just dont need people telling me what's good or bad for me and the "community"...


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> ill guarantee that there are other factors when it comes to buying snakes for most people, but the major factor has GOT to be looks. there's no way that people dont buy based mainly on looks for MOST snakes...some people are sick and like crazy venemous snakes which dont come off as strikingly beautiful...same with piranhas, people will say they look really beautiful, but in reality, its one ugly ass tetra with teeth, the only reason they bought them was to rip fish apart in front of their faces.
> 
> and i still believe your response is generic...i also want to know why you have to wait till you're 21... is that the age when you'll suddenly know how to handle one?
> 
> ...


While I don't agree with it being a major factor, it is regardless in most cases a factor. When purchasing a venomous snake you should try to elude this, as it could lead you to one you're not ready to care, or vice versa.

Sorry if it seemed generic, but it wasn't. I think 21 is the age where I'll be financially stable enough, and responsible enough to care for one. It will be my birthday present from myself









Nor do I, but I can come off as one. Sorry to tell you what's good for you and what's not, but it's what you're expected to get when you plan on buying a venomous snake with no training or experience.

Anyways, let us know how things go with the ATB if you still plan on getting one. It's always best to work with a similar snake before getting one that's venomous


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## novicimo (Sep 21, 2004)

I only read a few replies but its tough getting into keeping venomous snakes. My uncle keeps hot snakes for the venom, which he sells to some company who develops it into antivenom. Took me 8 months of caring for a aggressive corn snake he gave me (non-venmous obviously) and the deal was if the snake was alive and i got no bites in a 6 month period he would teach me. The problem is you dont get second chances.. He keeps antivenom for every type of snake he keeps, and he pays thousands of dollars to replace them every so often, some every 3 months and some every 6 months, and even so if someone were to get bit and had the needle in their hand cocked, your chance of survival isnt that good. Im not trying to scare you or anything, and diffrent hots have diffrent potency of venom, and there are diffrent types of venom that do diffrent things to your body. I think if you really wanna do this offer to help out at your local zoo, if they are nice they will let you help out with their snakes, and once you know enough they will probably let you in to help them with hot snakes. Its tough because for me it was like trying to climb a 20 foot high brick wall with a car strapped to my back to get into caring for them, but the rush is awesome. My uncle said it best "Just remember the reason everyone says you arent ready is because you arent, and you will learn after keeping hots for 20 years that you still arent ready". Ive beeen around hot snakes for about 6 months, and i want to have a couple years under my belt before i buy my own, but my baby is gonna be a yellow eyelash viper, if i can find a pic online ill post it. well thats my 2 cents, and take it with a grain of salt because im still a grasshopper when it comes to hot snakes.


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