# Think Its A Carbie



## MFNRyan

*The pet store had this guy labeled as a Red belly, He caught my eye because he was very active an not skittish at all like my other RBP's. He didn't run an hide when I got close to the tank to look at him. His red was very deep an went higher up then my other ones do. Also his teeth are bigger then i'm use to seeing. He does not have a black spot behind his gills, but an the biggest thing that got me, His eyes are red. None of mine are they are silver or white however you call it. He does have a bump on his bottom lip i think from running into the tank or the other fish he was with biting at him. He has only been in my tank an hour and already his red is coming back and he is swimming around. I took the pictures 45 minutes after he was put in an the red was coming then also. *


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## hugoale1

it´s a wild red belly


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## MFNRyan

I see, well that's still pretty cool. What benefits do you get from a wild as opposed to a tank born an raised? Also do wild one's usually cost more? They have one more slightly bigger then him. If wild's arent to common or I'm getting a good deal maybe I should look into getting him.


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## Sylar_92

doesnt look like a caribe to me. It looks like an older version of my largest red. My red also has red eyes, I'll post a pic up soon for you to see. Nice grab though.


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## MFNRyan

Carbie's will get along well with Red's if someday I am able to find one right? ALso they are known to be more active, aggressive an less skittish is that not correct? I know the personality always depends on the fish it's self but as a general call the Carbies are more outgoing then the Red's right? This is what I have been told but my sources are not what I would base much faith in


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## RedneckR0nin

Red belly


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## BRUNER247

You could add a cariba later. There's always a chance with cannibalism with more than one fish. I was in clearfield a couple years ago. Awesome wheeln in that area.


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## MFNRyan

Yeah I know the chance is there but the lower the chance the better lol.. I love wheelin around here.. both my jeep, truck an four wheeler! Super nice


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## BRUNER247

I lived on old erie pike Rd. Awesome wheeln right behind house in the hills. Climbed the volcano just north of town. Down & dirty jeep run was a good time. Pretty crazy driving bar to bar with wheeln spots along the way. I built almost all those huge stainless tanks at the ethanol plant & most the little ones also. Back on topic. Cariba will have silver/clear eyes. Rbp have the amber/red eyes. Some rbp get amber eyes faster than others.your new rbp has some nice colors.


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## JustJoshinYa

P. Natterie







a nice looking one though


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## CLUSTER ONE

RBP. 
Reds have red eyes, caribe have clear eyes. Impossible to tell if it is captive of wild caught just from a single pic.


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## Guest

Sadly not a Cariba like everyone else has already stated, its a regular RBP. Like cluster said there is no reliable way to tell if a red is wild or captive bred and a lot of it is based on speculation.
It does have a good sized chin chimple so it's safe to assume it's been in an aquarium for a while.


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## salvo85

yes, it is rbp piranha wild


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## Smoke

Give him some TLC and he will grow out nicely


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## Da' Manster!

Red Belly!..and a nice lookin' specimen at that!...He rocks like a MEGADEATH concert!...


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## Piranha-Freak101

salvo85 said:


> yes, it is rbp piranha wild


how would you know if you didnt catch the fish yourself


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## Dolphinswin

piranha-freak101 said:


> yes, it is rbp piranha wild


how would you know if you didnt catch the fish yourself
[/quote]
agree. You cant tell if its wild... Plus I personally dont think there would be any noticeable difference between wild natts and tank raised. I sure wouldnt be paying anymore for natts either.

To the op, Its caribe and carbie. Thanks and yes you have a pygocentrus nattereri.


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## Smoke

*Pygocentrus nattereri*


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## Guest

Dolphinswin said:


> yes, it is rbp piranha wild


how would you know if you didnt catch the fish yourself
[/quote]
agree. You cant tell if its wild... Plus I personally dont think there would be any noticeable difference between wild natts and tank raised. I sure wouldnt be paying anymore for natts either.

*To the op, Its caribe and carbie*. Thanks and yes you have a pygocentrus nattereri.
[/quote]
??????????


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## JustJoshinYa

he meant caribe NOT carbie he was correcting his spelling not commenting on its ID... and carbie used to be a term coined to describe caribe or CARIBA lets not split hairs over this ok....


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## Guest

I know he wasn't commenting on the ID.


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## Johnny_Zanni

Dolphinswin said:


> yes, it is rbp piranha wild


how would you know if you didnt catch the fish yourself
[/quote]
agree. You cant tell if its wild... Plus I personally dont think there would be any noticeable difference between wild natts and tank raised. I sure wouldnt be paying anymore for natts either.

To the op, Its caribe and carbie. Thanks and yes you have a pygocentrus nattereri.
[/quote]

Its actually Cariba thanks.


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## MFNRyan

I can take some more pictures for on here if you guys would like. I wish there was a way to know if it's wild caught, he is much more active then my others and has much nicer/darker colors. He really goes after the food too. He has only been in my tank two days and already is getting more and more active. I'm very happy with him, Hopefully the bump on his chin will go away, he was in a small tank at the store, he also had a buddy in there close to size an color which also had the red eye (i like the red eye) I was thinking about getting him but I need to upgrade some equipment before I get more. Better filter and tank. Hopefully this weekend or this week.


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## Guest




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## Smoke




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## MFNRyan

He is much more active then my other ones and got use to the tank very fast. He isn't shy he swims around a lot and today looks even better then he did when I put him in. HIs color is really coming through very dark an set in. He is much more outgoing then my other two. I wish there was a way to know if he was wild caught. I can post more pictures of him if you guys wanna see. He looks even better today.


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## Sylar_92

I havent read the other comments on the page before but usually if you ask the store they can tell you where the piranha is from. Still its a very nice piranha you have, I would love to see more pics.


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## Piranha_man

HEY GUYS... ENYBUDY SEEN A CARBIE 'ROUND HERE?


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## Smoke

Carib beer ?


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## Piranha_man




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## Smoke

lol


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## MFNRyan

Sorry I'm not as up to snuff on this as you guys are yet. Caribe is that right? I want a nice size school of Piranha. I need to upgrade my tank but don't know what size I should go with. How many i can fit in a 75g comfortably an how many more I can get in a 90g or a 120g. I wish I knew more! Here are some pics of him tonight after one day in my tank he already looks better an is more active. How long do you think it will take to clear the bump on his chin?


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## Johnny_Zanni

Cariba is right.


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## Guest

I wouldn't worry about the chimple, there's no way to cure it with out stopping the fish swimming against the glass. If it bothers you that much you can perform surgery on the fish to remove it, but that's purely cosmetic and pretty pointless imo as it puts the fish at risk of infection and stress.

Upgrading your tank can help, but more often then not this isn't the case. I have a juvie red now with a bit of a chimple in a 190gal, and it still swims up against the glass. Often fish that finger chase develop chimple's from banging into the glass and rubbing against it. It's just a blister and often goes away on it's own if the behaviour stops enough to allow healing. I personally don't mind the look of a chimple on reds, it makes there bottom jaw look more pronounced.

And yes, caribe is right (comes from the common name used by many Amazonian natives Caribe Capa Burro), also cariba (which comes from the scientific name Pygocentrus cariba).


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## Johnny_Zanni

Caribe is a cannibalistic tribe.


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## Smoke

Yes the Caribs was a warlike Indian tribe, whereas the Arawaks was a more peaceful tribe... Caribs were known to be cannibals. Hence the name Carib beer - Caribbean/Caribs... and Caribe


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## Johnny_Zanni

Stay tuned for tomorrows thread on the french revolution!


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## Smoke




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## Dolphinswin

Johnny_Zanni said:


> yes, it is rbp piranha wild


how would you know if you didnt catch the fish yourself
[/quote]
agree. You cant tell if its wild... Plus I personally dont think there would be any noticeable difference between wild natts and tank raised. I sure wouldnt be paying anymore for natts either.

To the op, Its caribe and carbie. Thanks and yes you have a pygocentrus nattereri.
[/quote]

Its actually Cariba thanks.
[/quote]
I meant to say its not carbie. It's actually caribe, were talking about a single specimen. thanks


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## Guest




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## Johnny_Zanni

Its never Caribe


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## MFNRyan

It was just a stupid typo! You guys are just like the Piranha waiting to pounce on someone. As you can see in the title I spelled it correct. I was in a hurry wasn't paying attention and I spelled it wrong. Sorry I get it now.. Caribe


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## Guest

Just ignore the bell ends RedBelly . .

ps. You didn't spell it right in the title, but we all knew what you meant.


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## Dolphinswin

RedBelly11 said:


> It was just a stupid typo! You guys are just like the Piranha waiting to pounce on someone. As you can see in the title I spelled it correct. I was in a hurry wasn't paying attention and I spelled it wrong. Sorry I get it now.. Caribe


lol its a joke bud... hahaha you actually spelt in wrong in the title and description...


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## MFNRyan

Well I'm a real idiot then lol I thought I had it right in the title. Caribe I know now though lol. I guess I'm not going to try to get one though. I hear they aren't as outgoing as I thought an just getting one or two to add to my RBP won't make much diff. they will just pick on my other fish. So hopefully a small shoal of RBP's will be outgoing enough for what I'm looking for. I noticed mine are starting to swim around the tank together. They are getting a little braver. Although I am very worried because I noticed tonight the heads of my PIranha all the way back to the gill area is transparent. Like you can see through it, the silver color has gone. I'm thinking about starting a new post to see what the deal is.


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## Ja'eh

hugoale1 said:


> it´s a wild red belly


You know this because?


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## Dolphinswin

RedBelly11 said:


> Well I'm a real idiot then lol I thought I had it right in the title. Caribe I know now though lol. I guess I'm not going to try to get one though. I hear they aren't as outgoing as I thought an just getting one or two to add to my RBP won't make much diff. they will just pick on my other fish. So hopefully a small shoal of RBP's will be outgoing enough for what I'm looking for. I noticed mine are starting to swim around the tank together. They are getting a little braver. Although I am very worried because I noticed tonight the heads of my PIranha all the way back to the gill area is transparent. Like you can see through it, the silver color has gone. I'm thinking about starting a new post to see what the deal is.


I have a 75gal and you could fit atleast 5 cariba in it for years. Cariba are the most aggressive pygo and for the little time I had juveniles I could easily tell they are less skittish. never once did they zip and run into the glass like reds do all the time. I say get the caribe this summer when they cost $30 ea.


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## Mr. Hannibal

"Caribe" is synonym to "Piranha" ("Piraña") here in Venezuela... it's just a general way to call these fish here in Venezuela... Pygocentrus cariba ("Cariba") is the correct way to talk about the single species...

"DEFINITION OF COMMON NAMES OF PIRANHAS AND CARIBES

by Frank Magallanes, OPEFE

The native common name piranha and caribe are names that were determined by Dr. G. S. Myers (1949, 1960, 1965, 1972), to apply only to the potentially dangerous piranhas or true piranha in genus Pygocentrus of Brazil and surrounding areas. The common name caribe applies only to the potentially dangerous true caribe in genus Pygocentrus found in Venezuela. Native South American's are the folks responsible for determining what a common name is for their native fish. You will occasionally read my use of piranha in describing all the species. Please be aware that the common name piranha and sometimes caribe is used here as a loose application only when addressing majority of these species. There is also legal precedent for these two (2) native common names as well (see State of Oregon vs. Magallanes, 1993).

First, let's pronounce the name correctly; it's "pee-ron-yah" or pih-ron-yah." The name comes from a hybrid language composed of Tupi-Guarani, split and combined to create one name (pira=fish....ranha or sanha=tooth).

Caribe; pronounced kah-ree-bay is a Spanish name derived from Caribbean Indians. Some authors have erroneously assumed that this name translates to cannibal however that is not the case. The Caribs were so named by the discoverer of Cuba, Christopher Columbus, and from the Spanish cariba, meaning a valiant man or brave man. They were man-eating cannibals in reality, and gave the English language that word by corruption and as a pun, caribal being transuded into cannibal in allusion to the canine voracity of the race. When the conquistadors saw the cannibalistic nature of the piranha fish and the feeding frenzy of the species, it only was natural, they used the epithet caribe or caribito (meaning little Carib) for the fish. The name remained locally though lesser known than the widely used name "piranha" which is frequently attached to all piranha-like fishes imported into the U.S.

Over the years, piranhas have been grouped in several scientific names, sometimes split apart then regrouped as a single genus. Today, scientists recognize 4 groups of fish which are represented by 4 names; Pygocentrus, Serrasalmus, Pygopristis, and Pristobrycon. The Indians of South America recognize piranhas by common names they use to describe the fish. I also think it wise to at least acknowledge that Venezuelan piranhas are called by Spanish names too, while the Brazilian portions of South America are called by Portuguese or Tupi-Guarani names.

The piranhas of Venezuela, Bolivia, parts of Rio Paraguay and Rio Paraña and Brazil are known collectively as;

genus Pygocentrus - mondogueros caribes, capa burro, pirañas, boca de la locha, palometa, palometa de rio, piranha.

genus Serrasalmus - pinches , caribes, palometa, pirambeba, muda

genus Pristobrycon - caribe morichalero, caribito, palometa,

genus Pygopristis - palometa, caribito, pirambeba.

Indian names lumped into a general usage: umati, bahumehi and a few more not listed here.

Northeastern Brazilian piranhas are known collectively as;

genus Pygocentrus - piranha, piranha verdadeira, piranha cachorra and other local dialect names. Genera; Serrasalmus, Pristobrycon, Pygopristis - pirambeba, piranha branca, piranha preta, these latter names pertain more to the color of the fish than actually referring to the species. Natives also use names of fruit or seeds to describe the fish by its color or body shape; caju, paña, arri, katte, chitão, huma, arai, ciucoa, djuta, quexicuda, and pirai (reserved for the most dangerous piranhas in Guyana). Myers (1971, p.22-30) devoted several pages in discussing common name usage by natives of South America and how we (English-speaking people) tended to lump fishes into one name to cover all fishes in the subfamily Serrasalminae as commonly called piranhas. Myers cites some examples such as the fish called a perch.

When I faced Oregon courts over a confiscation of piranhas (2 of which I called Pirambeba) and the Oregon Revised Statute over usage of common names as applied to piranhas, we were able to cite a 1932 court action using a phrase "COMMONLY KNOWN AS" (Dutch Schultz vs. New York) . The phrase was used to determine the specifics of gambling and what terms were used by those who practiced gambling. In other words, people knowledgeable about gambling within the illegal gambling field. In the case of the Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) all the species of fish in the subfamily Serrasalminae (including vegetarian fishes not even considered as true piranhas by natives or science) were prohibited as dangerous and commonly called a piranha/caribe. The Oregon judge decided in my favor that the way the ORS law was written, it did not apply to the fishes in my possession commonly known as pirambeba and were NOT commonly known as "piranha" in South America. The district attorney representing the State of Oregon tried to insinuate in his opening remarks to the judge by saying......"if it looks like a duck and swims like a duck, then it must be a duck" to make the case the pirambebas were still piranhas. Of course that remark when it applies to the native name usage of a true piranha is not necessarily the case as we now know and legally proven. I encourage everyone reading these web pages to visit the link citing the court action.

The OPEFE web site uses native common names whenever possible to help the student recognize what each species native name is. I do list common names applied by English-speaking people as well.

REFERENCES

Myers, George S. (1972) - The Piranha Book (M-539), TFH Publications.

Magallanes, Frank (1993) -On Line: State of Oregon vs. Magallanes, Case No. 93-CR-0124VI, Roseburg, Oregon."ºº

ºº From: http://www.opefe.com/pira_common_names.html


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## Johnny_Zanni

Thank you Hannibal









TOLD YOU

ITS NOT CARIBE its caribAAAAAAA


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## Guest

*facepalm*


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## MFNRyan

I have read a lot on that Frank guy's page. It's very helpful. Thanks for that post.


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## bob351

RedBelly11 said:


> *The pet store had this guy labeled as a Red belly, He caught my eye because he was very active an not skittish at all like my other RBP's. He didn't run an hide when I got close to the tank to look at him. His red was very deep an went higher up then my other ones do. Also his teeth are bigger then i'm use to seeing. He does not have a black spot behind his gills, but an the biggest thing that got me, His eyes are red. None of mine are they are silver or white however you call it. He does have a bump on his bottom lip i think from running into the tank or the other fish he was with biting at him. He has only been in my tank an hour and already his red is coming back and he is swimming around. I took the pictures 45 minutes after he was put in an the red was coming then also. *
> 
> View attachment 201540
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> View attachment 201541
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> View attachment 201542
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> View attachment 201543


Caribes have silver eyes at all ages, reds have red eyes that develop the older they get


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## Piranha-Freak101

yupp you deffinately dont wanna mess with zanni !


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## Guest

Whats your new found obsession with superman p-freak?


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## Ja'eh

Traveller said:


> Whats your new found obsession with superman p-freak?


He doesn't have an obsession with Superman....it's an obsession with down syndrome.


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## Johnny_Zanni

Ja said:


> Whats your new found obsession with superman p-freak?


He doesn't have an obsession with Superman....it's an obsession with down syndrome.








[/quote]

I agree. Thats mean


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## JustJoshinYa

redbelly11 most piranha are not very outgoing... but if you have a decent little shoal it should be closer to what you are looking for, but if you want really outgoing fish there are plenty of species that are WAY less skitish than p's are. and it all depends on the individual fish personalities my reds were very skitish and my sanchezi was skitish when a juvi but is absolutely not skitish now and is very active.

to everyone else this little discussion was funny and educational at the same time, sorry for the derail redbelly11


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## MFNRyan

eh no big deal lol I thought it was funny too. I think the P's are the coolest fish out there. I like wolf fish an I have an Asian gar that I really like too. I'm going to stick with the P's an hope as they get use to the tank an the house they become more an more brave lol. I am also going to do a co-hab tank with red bellie, Cariba, and Terns.. Hope this comes out ok lol


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## Piranha-Freak101

Ja said:


> Whats your new found obsession with superman p-freak?


He doesn't have an obsession with Superman....it's an obsession with down syndrome.








[/quote]








sorry got way too carried away


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