# DIY cave



## divine

Well, my classes were cancelled today, so i went shopping, and then started a cave for my P tank to cover my overflow.

materials and tools:

1/4" plywood
1" chicken mesh
elmers commerical glue
2" by 2" by 2' pieces
staple gun with 1/4" staples
1" screws
hand saw
philips screw driver
side cutters

First i made a mock up of my overflow. Then i started to cut and shape the chicken mesh. Then I started to cover the mesh with paper and glue. I am letting it dry so I can paper the inside/roof.

The I will cover in with plaster of paris. My mold will be complete

Then I will use the mold to made a fiberglass cave. I will then tear out the mesh, paper, and plaster from the fiberglass. Once the other pieces are complete they will be textured, painted, and installed.

















































there is extra paper at the base to absorb the excess glue

Stay tuned for updates!


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## KRS one

thats badass! i never thought of doing anyhthink like that


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## mr_costarican

that does look badass...how big is your tank?


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## BigChuckP

That is awesome.







your ps are going to love that tank so much that I dont think you will ever see them again.


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## divine

I figure if my P's know they have a very secure space to go to they will not be very shy. There is also going to be a powerful river current.

some more pictures


















I thought i would have to use plaster of paris on top of the layer of paper (paper towel and 3:1 hot water/elmers mix) but is seem very strong. I think i can put the fiberglass on top of the paper/glue. I am waiting for it to completely dry and then I will lay up the ceiling and inside. I cant get the paper/glue to stick upside down, so i will have to reposition the mold facing the opening upward. probably tomorrow.


















I have limited experience with wood, no experience with sculpturing. Had three labs on composites and failures (only about 2 hours of laying up material and curing). This is really a learn as you go kind of build. I am going to write up a complete "how to" after completing the setup.


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## divine

Other projects to come in the next few weeks:

Fiberglass covers for other overflow and back wall of tank. 
DIY Aluminun lighitng fixture
DIY filteration (sealed sump, plumbing, and current)
DIY CO2


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## EZmoney

That is the craziest, most bitchin' idea that I have seen to date!









Congrats on the idea! I can't wait for the finished product and your DIY instructions... I seriously want to do something like that too!!!!!!!!!!


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## blindside

top marks for being different mate!!

that cave is gunna look excellent!!









ian


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## Nethius

Cool! Looking good, keep us updated


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## ESPMike

Thats awsome! Keep posting pics I cant wait to see the finished product!

-Mike


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## Slim

thats awesome keep it updated I want to see what this cave is gonna look like. How big is this cave gonna be?


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## DepH

Nice, but isn't that steel/alu net dangerous for the water? Isn't all metall bad for aquariums?


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## Adam

divine said:


> Then I will use the mold to made a fiberglass cave. *I will then tear out the mesh, paper, and plaster from the fiberglass.* Once the other pieces are complete they will be textured, painted, and installed.
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DepH said:


> Nice, but isn't that steel/alu net dangerous for the water? Isn't all metall bad for aquariums?
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Just saying


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## DepH

Adam said:


> divine said:
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> Then I will use the mold to made a fiberglass cave. *I will then tear out the mesh, paper, and plaster from the fiberglass.* Once the other pieces are complete they will be textured, painted, and installed.
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> DepH said:
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> Nice, but isn't that steel/alu net dangerous for the water? Isn't all metall bad for aquariums?
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> Just saying
> [snapback]976645[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

My bad, my eyes aren't as good as they use to be.


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## divine

The 2 liter is just for a reference of the size.

I added paper/glue to the back wall of the cave(if you look closely at the bottom of the bottom picture it says "bottom" in black pen). I will let it dry and then paper the sides and roof after repositioning the cave again so gravity (the enemy) doesn't pull off the wet paper while drying.

When I say paper/glue. I mean I used paper towel wetted in my glue/hot water bucket. I cover the bucket (seen in the top right of these pics) when not in use. I microwave the glue to get it hot again


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## CTREDBELLY

thats pretty damn cool. but forgive me if this sounds stupid as hell but do u think it will cause more fights with ur Ps as they try to fight to make the cave THEIRS instead of sharing with their tank mates? the idea is cool dont get me wrong but maybe some smaller caves and more of them?


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## divine

I am making another smallerl cave to cover the other overflow. I plan on keeping maybe 12 rbp or terns until they are about as big as my hand and then start getting rid of some until there or maybe 6 or 8. There is also going to be a piece of drift wood coming out of the back wall to the tank bottom with space behind it in the middle of the tank. This is a good question. Inside the cave is huge!


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## EZmoney

divine said:


> When I say paper/glue. *I mean I used paper towel wetted in my glue/hot water bucket.* I cover the bucket (seen in the top right of these pics) when not in use. I microwave the glue to get it hot again
> [snapback]977016[/snapback]​


Are you referring to white household glue such as Elmer's Glue?

I am looking forward to seeing the finished product!


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## divine

I used contractor grade elmers glue. it was 4 dollars. I think it is pretty much the same as regular elmers glue.


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## traumatic

Cool idea!

are you gonna paint the fiberglass w/ epoxy paint? and how easy is it to get the paper off the fiber glass. Did you make the chicken wire and wood easy to separate?


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## ~Silly~Spy

nice man, keep up the the good work








~Silly~Spy


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## 33truballa33

cant wait to see completed pics


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## divine

I sparingly used 1/4" staples to attach the chicken wire to the plywood. The plywood can be taken apart from the outside by pulling out the Philips screws. The glue is water soluble. So I figure the use of a pressure washer should be able to remove any paper/glue I can't pull/peel off.

As of the paint question, I haven't decided what I am going to use to paint it yet. I found aerosol cans of paint that contains grit and look like rock at Home depot. It comes in granite, blue, black, sandstone, etc. But I was told it would not last submerged in water. My next thought is to buy some marine grade paint mix in some sand and paint the cave.

What is epoxy paint? I don't really know much of anything about different types of paint.

Thanks for all the interest.


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## 33truballa33

epoxy is expensive but will act like a puffer for the wood. it will ensure that the wood doesnt come into contact with water and eventually rot


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## benJii

BAD F*CKING ASS


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## divine

I finished the inside wall of the cave today. Tomorrow, I will finish the ceiling of the cave and the mold will be complete.

I have some guests for the weekend so I will probably start the fiberglass at the start of the week.

The wood/mold IS NOT going in the tank only the finished fiberglass.


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## richiecarw

ive got to say that is one of the most original and quality d.i.y ideas ive seen mate thats brilliant, your a credit to this hobby!!


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## traumatic

epoxy paint is used in fishtanks cus it's non-toxic when dry and wont' deteriorate. It is expensive but is a must when coating other surfaces (like wood, fiber glass) which will leak or be toxic to fish. People use it on thier DIY projects because it is easy, comes in many colors and is basically the only paint you can use in a fish tank.


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## piranhaqueen

so, the end result will be a fiberglass cave painted w/ epoxy paint (or other)..... I have never worked w/ this liquid fiberglass stuff.... what is a brand name.

Do you suppose I could use a big bowl as a mold, coat the inside w/ fiberglass, then pull the fiberglass outa the bowl, cut a hole for the cave and paint it?

Another idea, could I just dig a hole in some sand outside, and dump in some liquid fiberglass, stick in a bowl slightly smaller than the hole that is greesed w/ something to create the open area inside the cave. When dry, pull out the bowl and the dried fiberglass, which the sand should stick to the outside, cut a hole for the fish, throw it in the tank?

does this fiberglass sink, or will it float?

I want to make one, but making a mold and such is a long process, and I don't have a overflow to hide in my tank.


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## traumatic

fiberglass is extrememly nasty stuff, my boss just used some to fix the floor of his boat. It has strict guidelines on how to use it. It has temperature, humidity and ventilation requirements. I wouldn't use fiberglass myself.


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## divine

I am no expert on fiberglass but i would assume that if it don't have air trapped in it, it will sink.

Yes i think the bowl idea would work (both of them) or a rubbermaid container maybe?

My roomate on the other hand is the man when is comes to fiberglass. he worked in a fiberglass shop for about a year.

I don't think fiberglass comes in liquid form. It is material (cloth or glass) that is covered in resin and built up in layers. If could use glass not in mat form to create "liquid" fiberglass. I have seen fiberglass sold by the roll in both cloth(weave) and glass form. I am going to go down to a bodyshop(i know the owner) and see if i can buy the fiberglass i need from him at cost. I plan on using a layer of cloth/layerl glass/layer of cloth. Make sure you use gloves to handle the resin. How the resin is mixed should be based on humidity and temperature. Once mixed, it will start harden within 15 mins to an hour (i think). full cure after a couple of days. Cured fiberglass is not toxic. humans used fiberglass tanks to hold drinking water all over the world. I figure if we can drink out of it, the fish can live in it.

I bought a Dremal today, it is bad ass.

This project has no been time consuming at all. I spent an hour the first day to make the mockup, 20 mins/day for the last three days to make the mold. I will spend about ten minutes today to finish the mold. the biggest thing is waiting for it to dry.

Like i said before I have never done anything like this before. Anyone can do something like this with a little bit of pre-thought and patience.


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## piranhaqueen

ahhhhh... I meant resin when I was asking about using a bowl for a mold or a hole in the sand..... not liquid fiberglass...







........


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## divine

I think it will work, you can easily shape the sand to make a cool cave


















I finally finished my mold. It will be a few days before i start the fiberglass


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## EZmoney

that looks really cool so far!


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## oojit

very creative man


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## Sheriff Freak

hey great idea........ i think ill make one when my tanks is complete. and when i have the $ to spend on random stuff! but that looks great.


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## Fresh2salt

looks good so far. cant wait to see it all done.


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## sjaracz

Hi guys

Must say just love this site so much info to read

here is a little bit about fiberglass

the only problem i see here is the need for a releasing agent

this is the best info i have found for fiber glass

MOLDING FIBERGLASS 
Composites offer tremendous possibilities for part fabrication once a few basic concepts are understood. The key lies in understanding the different materials available, their applications, and the best ways to handle them.

This brochure is intended to be a general overview of composite fabrication, with an emphasis placed on the fabrication of parts in molds. The broad scope of this brochure limits the amount of detail included about basic fundamentals and mold construction. Fibre Glast Developments offer brochures, which delve into specific aspects of these areas in more detail.

Terminology 
The best place to start when learning about composites is an understanding of the vocabulary used in this field. The following terms are often used in describing the composite fabrication process:

Piece: The finished product, which you are making.

Plug: The actual item to be duplicated in fiberglass or other composite materials, which is used to construct the mold. The plug can be the actual part or a custom-fabricated shape, made from virtually any type of material.

Mold: The item from which the piece will be made. There are two main types of molds, male and female. A male mold is identical to the item being duplicated, and the piece is made over the mold. A female, or cavity, mold is the reverse of the item to be duplicated, and the piece is made inside the mold. The word can also be used to describe the composite fabrication process: Molding a part.

Laminate: A solid part constructed from a combination of resin and reinforcing fabric. This term can also be used to describe the process of laying up a part: Laminating a part.

Gel Coat (or Surface Coat): The term gel coat is often used generically to describe any resin-based surface coating, but the term technically applies to polyester-based materials. The term surface coat can be used to describe either epoxy or polyester materials. Surface coats are specially formulated, thickened versions of resins which can be applied to the surface of a mold or piece to serve as a cosmetic and protective coating.

Release Agent: Any of a number of materials applied to the mold surface before part fabrication, in order to aid in the release of the piece from the mold. These could be waxes, oils or specialty release coatings such as PVA .

Flange/Parting Dam: A temporary fixture attached to the plug when building multiple-piece molds. This generally creates a surface for materials to be molded against, perpendicular to the parting plane of symmetry. The flange aids in clamping or bolting the mold sections together, as well as serving as a mounting point during vacuum bagging operations.

Materials 
Once you know the "key words" of composites, the next step is learning about the different resin and reinforcement options available when working with composites. The first portion of this section deals with the three main resins used for most composite structures, while part two deals with the most common reinforcements.

Part 1: Resins 
A composite structure consists of a thermosetting resin used in conjunction with some type of reinforcement, such as woven fiberglass cloth. The three main types of room-temperature-curing resins used in composite fabrication are polyester, vinyl ester and epoxy resins.

Polyester resin is a general-purpose resin suitable for a wide variety of applications. Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide (MEKP) must be used as the catalyst to begin the curing process. Catalyzation rates can be varied with polyester resins, environmental conditions. In thin laminations or when gel coat is sprayed as a topcoat, the surface may remain tacky and not cure properly if left exposed to the air. To get a complete cure, thin laminations or top coats must contain either styrene wax solution of have a coat of polyvinyl alcohol (PVA) solution sprayed over them to seal out the air. With the former, the wax "floats" to the surface as the resin cures, acting as a barrier to the air. Styrene wax must be sanded off after curing, but PVA can be rinsed off with warm water.

Epoxy resins are not as forgiving in their measurement as polyester resins, but epoxies provide a greater part strength and dimensional stability. They also adhere to other materials better than polyester resins. Epoxy hardener ratios can't be varied, and adequate temperatures (at least 70 degrees F) must be maintained during the curing process. Epoxy resin systems tend to cost more than polyester resins, but they are a virtual necessity in some repair applications, such as with Sheet Molded Compound (SMC). Epoxy resins are also highly recommended for use with Kevlar® and carbon fiber.

The third type of resin, vinyl ester , possesses qualities that fall between polyester and epoxy resins for the most part. It excels above both, however, in the areas of corrosion resistance, temperature resistance (it's good to 300 degrees F), and toughness. Common uses include boat hull repair, full tank construction and chemical storage tank linings. Like polyester resin, it is catalyzed with MEKP, but vinyl ester has as shorter three-month shelf life.

Part 2: Fabrics 
There are many reinforcing fabrics available that are used with the resins discussed. The three types of reinforcing fabrics most commonly used are fiberglass, Kevlar® (Aramaids) and carbon fiber (graphite). Each possesses different qualities and advantages. All three are usually available at tows or rovings, veil mats and woven fabrics. Additionally, fiberglass is available as a chopped strand mat, which consists of short, randomly oriented fibers held together by a binder.

Carbon fibers costs the most to purchase, but it offers exceptionally high strength and stiffness, in combination with extremely lightweight. Kevlar® also offers lightweight, along with excellent abrasion resistance. It is, however, difficult to cut and wet out with resin. For finishing purposes, fabricators often use a surface layer of lightweight fiberglass cloth in Kevlar® laminates, because Kevlar ® is virtually impossible to sand once cured.

Most general-purpose applications utilize fiberglass cloth. Although it lacks the light weight and strength of carbon fiber or Kevlar®, it is considerably cheaper to purchase. Fiberglass cloth comes in a wide variety of styles and weights, making it ideal for many applications. High-strength weave styles are available, and these could be considered cost effective alternatives to the more advanced fabrics.

Mold Construction 
The first step in mold making consists of plug construction and/or preparation. The plug may be constructed of nearly anything, as long as its surface can be finished well enough to give a suitable mold surface. As stated previously, the plug can either be an existing item or something fabricated specifically for the mold-making process. Some of the materials commonly used in plug construction include wood, plaster, metal and polyurethane foam. The latter comes either as pre-formed sheets or as a two-part "mix and pour" system that chemically reacts to form the foam. The "mix and pour" foam will conform to the shape of any cavity into which the ingredients are poured.

The surface of the plug must be finished at least as well as the desired surface on the part to be produced. In most applications, the preferred plug surface would be a perfectly smooth and polished class "A" finish. If a particular texture or pattern is desired on the finished part, it can be incorporated into the plug surface. A high quality, sandable surfacing primer such as the Duratec Grey Surfacing Primer (#1041-B), works well as the finish coat on the plug. Incorporate flanges and any necessary parting dams onto the plug at this point (see "Special Mold Construction Considerations.)

Before beginning construction of the mold, a release agent must be applied to the plug. This is the most important step in the process, because if the release agent fails to perform, the mold can't be removed without damaging it and the plug. A little extra effort at this point is better than hours spent trying to correct damage to the plug and mold. The release agent can either be a combination of parting wax and PVA, or a one-step release agent such as FibRelease .

When using wax, apply four coats, waiting one hour between the second and third coats. After the final wax coat has been buffed, spray three thin mist coats of PVA and allow it to dry for 30-45 minutes. FibRelease can be wiped or misted onto the plug, and allowed to dry for 30 minutes. Be sure to apply the release agent to the surface of any flanges and parting dams.

For most molds, polyester resin and 1.5 oz/sq. ft chopped strand mat yield satisfactory results. Mold strength and thickness can be built up more rapidly by adding woven roving or tooling fabric. With polyester molds, the first step in making the mold is the application of the tooling gel coat, which is distinguishable by its bright orange color. Prior to its application, be sure to catalyze the gel coat at the proper ratio. For best results, the tooling gel coat should be sprayed onto the plug with a gel coat cup gun in three passes of seven to eight mils each, building to a total thickness of 20-25 mils.

The surface coat should be stabilized with an initial layer of mat within one and a half to five hours, in order to prevent the gel coat from shrinking or lifting off the plug surface. Apply a coat of resin to the surface and lay the mat into the resin. Using a bristle brush, apply the resin to the mat, coaxing the mat into the various contours of the plug. A dabbing motion is much more effective than a painting motion, as long strokes tend to pull the mat around.

All trapped air pockets must be worked out so that the mat is tight against the plug surface, and it must be uniformly saturated with resin. Air bubbles and dry areas will appear milky against the tooling gel coat . Use a bristle roller to work air pockets out of the mat and a grooved saturation roller to help compact the laminate. Watch for bridging (lifting) of the fibers across sharp corners and in textured areas. Any air bubbles remaining after the resin gels must be carefully cut out with a sharp utility knife and a match patch laminated in place.

Once the initial layer has cured, lightly sand it in preparation for additional layers, following the same procedure as with the initial layer. Most molds utilize 8-10 layers, but do not apply more than three to four layers at a time to minimize heat generation (exotherm). After the third layer of mat, a layer of woven roving or tooling fabric can be added to more rapidly build thickness. In general, a mold should be a minimum of twice the thickness of the part it is to produce.

Allow the completed mold to cure for at least 24 hours before attempting removal. Any support structures should be laminated to the back of the mold prior to releasing it from the plug. Release wedges can be inserted around the perimeter of the mold, between the mold and the plug, and gently driven into place in a progressive fashion. Air injection wedges, which attach to an air compressor, can be used to coax stubborn sections apart.

Once the mold is released, wash off any residue from the release agent with warm water and inspect the surface. Any imperfections must be ground out and repaired. You're then ready to begin prepping the mold for part production.

Mold Maintenance 
Before any part can be made in a new mold, it must be wet sanded and polished to a Class "A" finish. Wet sand the mold in a progressive manner, using 400, 600, and finally 1000-grit sandpaper. Be sure to change the water in your bucket and rinse the mold surface when changing to a finer paper to insure none of the coarser grit remains. For polishing Fibre Glast Development Co. recommends using a two step polishing compound and a high-speed buffer. The first stage removes the sanding scratches, while the second polishes the surface to the desired finish.

After polishing the mold, apply a release agent to it, following the procedures outlined for prepping the plug. A new mold is often given an extra coat of the release agent as added insurance.

In the event a part doesn't release properly and damages the mold, repair will be necessary. Any loose or damaged material must be removed by sanding or grinding, and new tooling gel coat applied to that area. A coat of PVA or wax paper placed over the repair will be necessary for proper curing. Once cured, the repair can be sanded and buffed as previously described.

Special Mold Construction Considerations 
Part 1: Multiple Piece Molds 
In some instances, the shape of the plug may require a multiple-piece mold so that the mold can be removed from the plug and subsequent parts removed from the mold. When making a multiple piece mold, start by constructing a temporary dam on the plug, along the desired parting line. This dam may be constructed of masonite or a similar material, and held in place with clay. A sharp corner without a radius must be maintained on the portion to be molded first. Any locating keys or dowels for realignment of the mold pieces should be added to the parting dam. With multiple piece molds, construct the entire mold before releasing any part of the mold, in order to avoid realignment problems. After the first portion of the mold cures, remove the temporary dam and use the completed portion of the flange to form the parting dam for the next half. Apply release agent to this surface before continuing the mold construction.

Part 2: Alternate Construction Methods 
If durability and dimensional stability are important factors in mold construction, epoxy resin can be used in place of polyester resin . The procedure for this is much the same as with polyester resin, except that mat cannot be used with epoxy, as the binder that holds the mat together is not compatible with epoxy resins. Start with two or four ounce fabric to minimize prints through of the weave pattern. Then switch to a 7-10 ounce fabric. Be sure to place some layers on a 45-degree angle for good stiffness. Epoxy surface coats should be brushed onto the plug for best results. Because epoxies are less prone to shrinkage than polyester materials, immediate application of a stabilizing reinforcement layer over the surface coat isn't critical.

If exceptionally rigid molds are required, carbon fiber can be used in place of fiberglass cloth. We recommend using epoxy resin with carbon fiber, and a flexible rubber squeegee works best for distributing resin through the fabric.

MOLDING PARTS: SELECTING MATERIALS 
Once the mold has been properly polished and coated with a release agent, you can begin making parts! The first stage in the process of molding parts is determining which resin and reinforcements will be used. Having previously discussed the merits of the three main resins, we will concentrate here on the specifics of reinforcement selection.

After choosing the type of reinforcement to be used, the biggest factor becomes choosing the style (weave) and weight of fabric best suited to a given application. The three main fabric styles are plain weave, twill weave, and satin weave. In addition, fiberglass is available in ounces per square yard, with the exception of mat, which is expressed in ounces per square foot.

When fabrics are woven, the fibers are bundled into yarns running a 0 (warp yarn) and 90 (fill yarn) degrees. Plain weaves use an "over-under" pattern, while in a satin weave one filling yarn floats over three to seven warp threads before being stitched under another warp thread, and twill weaves are a "2x2" pattern. Plain weaves are the least expensive and are good general purpose fabrics, but they don't offer the strength of satin and twill weave fabrics, but it is equally strong in all directions.

The lighter the fabric weight, the easier it will drape over contours and the less resin it will take to wet it out. Lightweight fabrics are most commonly used for surfacing and radio-control (R/C) hobby applications. Medium weight fabrics are most commonly used in repair and fabrication work. The heaviest fabrics are generally used for rapid thickness build up, such as in boat hulls and mold making.

Fabrics are sold by the running yard, generally in widths of 38, 50 and 60 inches, although not every fabric will be available in all of those widths. For a given project, choose a width that most closely approximates the width of the part to be made. The idea is to use as few separate pieces of fabric as possible per layer. The amount of resin needed will depend on the weight of the fabric selected. Fabric to resin ratios for most woven fiberglass and Kevlar® are about 50:50, while carbon fiber is 60:40. Fiberglass mat will require about twice as much resin as woven fiberglass for proper saturation.Extra strength can be built into parts by means of sandwich core construction. This process involves utilizing a core material, such as end grain balsa wood , polyurethane foam, vinyl foam, or honeycomb, between to laminate skins. Some core materials come in a variety of thickness, depending on the needs of a particular application. The strength and stiffness of a part can be increased significantly, with very little extra weight added to the part.

MOLDING PARTS: THE FABRICATION PROCESS 
With the fabric and resin selected, you're ready to begin molding the part. As stated previously, when using a mold for the first time, add an extra coating of release agent to insure a proper release. While the release agent is drying, take the time to cut the reinforcement to the proper size and number of pieces and stack the pile near your work area. If using mat, tear it into workable sized pieces instead of cutting it. The frayed edges of the pieces will intermix as they are placed in the mold, giving a stronger bond than when two cut edges are butted together. With woven fabrics, determine where the part's strength needs to be the greatest and orient the fibers accordingly. With plain weave fabrics, a more uniform strength can be achieved by alternating the fiber orientation between 0/90 and 45/45 degrees.

The part fabrication process is similar to the steps followed in making the mold. When working with a female mold, start by applying the appropriate surface coat to the mold surface. This step isn't absolutely necessary when fabricating parts, but a much better cosmetic appearance for the finished part will be achieved if it is used. Applying the first layer of resin and fabric directly to the mold surface can result in surface irregularities, pinholes, and print-through of the fabric weave pattern if a heavier fabrics is used. These blemishes can be corrected once the part is removed from the mold, but it will require tedious sanding and filling. Use of a lightweight fabric, such as two-ounce or four-ounce, as the first layer can minimize these problems if a gel coat or surface coat isn't used. As an alternative to gel coat, Duratec Surfacing Primer can be sprayed into the mold, providing a durable surface finish.

Polyester gel coats come in either white or clear form, which is pigmented to a variety of colors. Clear gel coats reproduce colors very accurately, while white gel coats yield pastel colors. Epoxy surface coat is white in color, and can also be pigmented.

When applying gel coat to the mold, the best results will be achieved by spraying unthinned gel coat with a cup gun , in much the same manner as tooling gel coatis applied in mold construction. Slowly build up the gel coat in three passes, to a thickness of 15-20 mils. A gel coat thickness gauge is the best tool to use for determining the thickness. Check in several locations on the part to make certain an even coat is being applied. Too much of too little in some areas can cause wrinkling or distortion when the gel coat cures. When using an epoxy surface coat, it should be brushed into the mold.

Adhering to the guidelines in the mold construction section of the brochure, follow the gel coat with an initial stabilizing layer of reinforcement. If you've pigmented the gel coat and want the same color throughout the part, the resin can also be pigmented to match.

When laying up the reinforcement, try to utilize a single, uncut piece of fabric for each layer. Unfortunately, this is not always possible. Sometimes a part is too large to be covered by as single piece of fabric, so two or more pieces must be used. When two separate pieces must be joined together in a mold, it is best to overlap the pieces by one-half to one inch, as opposed to butting the pieces tougher. Butt two pieces together to form a seam only when maintaining constant thickness is necessary.

The contours and shapes of a part may also make it difficult to get good adhesion using a single piece of fabric. Indentations and sharp angles, in particular, present this kind of problem. Composites can be formed into many shapes, but it is very difficult to achieve sharp angles (90 degrees or sharper) with continuous pieces of fabric. The fabric will tend to lift in these areas, resulting in air bubbles and weak spots in the laminate. If a sharp angle is required in a part, the best way to approach it is by butting two cut pieces of fabric together at the turn. For added strength at these butt joints, mix a small amount of resin with milled glass fibers to form structural putty filler. Apply this to the joint before lying in the fabric. With indentations, it's better to cut a smaller piece of fabric to fit the indentation rather than trying to force a larger piece of fabric down into it.

As with mold construction, use rollers and squeegees to thoroughly saturate the fabric, work air pockets out of the laminate and compacts the layers as much as possible. This will help avoid weak spots and delamintion problems into the finished part. As the layers of reinforcement fit into the mold, pay attention to the orientation of the fibers if using woven cloth, alternating the orientation by layer to increase part strength.

If a sandwich core construction is going to be utilized, determine which type of core material best suits the application. Polyurethane foam is very rigid and doesn't conform well to contours, whereas vinyl foam can be heated and formed to a variety of shapes. Balsa, which generally consists of small end grain blocks held together by a scrim of fabric, can conform to mild curves. Honeycomb core materials are very flexible and will bend to a variety of shapes.

Several steps must be taken to prep core material, in order to get a strong piece. After cutting and shaping the core material to the contours of the part, bevel the edges of the core's perimeter to a 45-degree angle to smooth fabric transition. Mix a portion of resin with glass microspheres to a slurry consistency, and use this to fall any gaps, as well as splice multiple pieces or core material together. Pretreat open-celled foams and honeycomb cores with this slurry mix, in order to fill the open cells with something lighter than pure resin. Once these steps are completed, the core can be bonded in place.

When dealing with multiple-piece molds, almost always assemble the pieces of the mold before laying up a part. Laying up a part and then assembling the mold pieces will make it difficult to get a good bond between the pieces and a smooth cosmetic finish. The exception to this rule would be an enclosed item, such as a fuel tank, which would be impossible to lay up if the mold was assembled in advance.

If a compression mold is being used, the other half of the mold can be clamped to the first half once all of the reinforcing layers are in place. If a compression mold is not being used, but a smooth surface is desired on both sides of the part, a surface coat can be applied over the final layer of reinforcement. When the laminate reaches the "leathery" semi-cured stage, trim the edges with a sharp utility knife. Doing this now will significantly reduce finishing time and dust generation down the road.

Once the part has cured, remove it from the mold in much the same manner as the mold was removed from the plug. Any residue from the release agent can be rinsed off the part, and it can be finished in whatever manner is necessary. Finishing usually involves sanding down any seams and sanding the edges of the part.

Inspect the mold for any damage or dulling of the mold surface. If everything is fine, reapply the release agent when you're ready to build the next part. If repairs or buffing are necessary, carry out those operations as previously described.

By carefully following the guidelines in this and our other brochures, you can produce molds and finished parts that meet or exceed your expectations. If something does go wrong, nearly any damage or problems can be repaired. Remember that working with composites is like any other new skill you learn: the more you work at it and practice honing your abilities, the better the results will be. Once you have mastered the basics, and then refined those skills, nearly anything is possible.


----------



## Slim

Here is how good fiberglass works. See this tank. The whole thing is fiberglassed on the inside so it doesnt leak water out of the wood. It is very safe and easy to use dries in like 40 minutes depending on the size of the layer you use. Although its like 30 dollars for a gallon container. Fiberglass is what most people use for DIY tanks.


----------



## b-unit34

Sounds Very Cool! Good Luck!
Post Pics once you put it in


----------



## BigChuckP

Slim said:


> Here is how good fiberglass works. See this tank. The whole thing is fiberglassed on the inside so it doesnt leak water out of the wood. It is very safe and easy to use dries in like 40 minutes depending on the size of the layer you use. Although its like 30 dollars for a gallon container. Fiberglass is what most people use for DIY tanks.
> [snapback]983436[/snapback]​


He still needs a releasing agent. You didnt cause you werent releasing it from anything and in his case he is.


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## Natt King Shoal

piranhaqueen said:


> Another idea, could I just dig a hole in some sand outside, and dump in some liquid fiberglass, does this fiberglass sink, or will it float?
> 
> I want to make one, but making a mold and such is a long process, and I don't have a overflow to hide in my tank.
> [snapback]979576[/snapback]​


I like that idea! Dig a hole in the garden, line it with something (tarp?), add a release agent and then the fiberglass.


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## EZmoney

sjaracz said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Must say just love this site so much info to read
> 
> here is a little bit about fiberglass
> 
> the only problem i see here is the need for a releasing agent
> 
> this is the best info i have found for fiber glass
> 
> MOLDING FIBERGLASS
> Composites offer tremendous possibilities for part fabrication once a few basic concepts are understood. The key lies in understanding the different materials available, their applications, and the best ways to handle them.
> 
> This brochure is intended to be a general overview of composite fabrication, with an emphasis placed on the fabrication... _blah blah blah etc etc etc blah blah blah etc etc etc blah blah blah etc etc etc blah blah blah etc etc etc_... Once you have mastered the basics, and then refined those skills, nearly anything is possible.
> [snapback]983357[/snapback]​


Holy sh*t!







This is your first post!!!







Lots more info than I ever expected to know about fiberglass and a good read for fiberglass noobs like myself...









How about giving us the link to this info as well








and of course,
Welcome to the site!!!


----------



## sjaracz

Well here you go lots to read









http://www.fibreglast.com/









now this website does sell everything you need but i do not think it is the cheapest around

for the cave project i would slap some modeling clay over the top of it this way you get a good base to release from and you can easliy use the PVA separator agent on it this would also make the mold reusable and you would be able to easliy reshape the clay around to make different looking caves

Modeling Clay 
Plenty of Uses 
KLEEN KLAY is a non-drying clay having many applications in most phases of fiberglass molding including temporary fillets, construction of mold parting lines and quick repairs to molds. The oil base of this clay allows PVA separator to be applied to it and also provides a good measure of adhesion to waxed surfaces. KLEEN KLAY is a registered trademark of Art Chemical Products.

this is a great project







can't wait to see the finshed cave


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## Slim

BigChuckP said:


> Slim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is how good fiberglass works. See this tank. The whole thing is fiberglassed on the inside so it doesnt leak water out of the wood. It is very safe and easy to use dries in like 40 minutes depending on the size of the layer you use. Although its like 30 dollars for a gallon container. Fiberglass is what most people use for DIY tanks.
> [snapback]983436[/snapback]​
> 
> 
> 
> He still needs a releasing agent. You didnt cause you werent releasing it from anything and in his case he is.
> [snapback]983830[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

Whats he releasing it from? I thought he was trying to seal it?


----------



## BigChuckP

Slim said:


> BigChuckP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is how good fiberglass works. See this tank. The whole thing is fiberglassed on the inside so it doesnt leak water out of the wood. It is very safe and easy to use dries in like 40 minutes depending on the size of the layer you use. Although its like 30 dollars for a gallon container. Fiberglass is what most people use for DIY tanks.
> [snapback]983436[/snapback]​
> 
> 
> 
> He still needs a releasing agent. You didnt cause you werent releasing it from anything and in his case he is.
> [snapback]983830[/snapback]​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats he releasing it from? I thought he was trying to seal it?
> [snapback]985386[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

He made the mold out of chicken wire and papier mache if he were to just put the fiberglass on the papier mache it would not be easy to release it pmache and some or all would probably be stuck to the fiberglass cave. In your case you did not release it from the wood to use as a mold, rather to keep water from infiltrating the wood. Mind you I have never worked with fiberglass, just skimmed that article, so i could be wrong.


----------



## sjaracz

BigChuckP said:


> Slim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BigChuckP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is how good fiberglass works. See this tank. The whole thing is fiberglassed on the inside so it doesnt leak water out of the wood. It is very safe and easy to use dries in like 40 minutes depending on the size of the layer you use. Although its like 30 dollars for a gallon container. Fiberglass is what most people use for DIY tanks.
> [snapback]983436[/snapback]​
> 
> 
> 
> He still needs a releasing agent. You didnt cause you werent releasing it from anything and in his case he is.
> [snapback]983830[/snapback]​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats he releasing it from? I thought he was trying to seal it?
> [snapback]985386[/snapback]​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He made the mold out of chicken wire and papier mache if he were to just put the fiberglass on the papier mache it would not be easy to release it pmache and some or all would probably be stuck to the fiberglass cave. In your case you did not release it from the wood to use as a mold, rather to keep water from infiltrating the wood. Mind you I have never worked with fiberglass, just skimmed that article, so i could be wrong.
> [snapback]985609[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

his plans are to use it as a mold then rip the paper and wire out but it will not work the fiberglass resin is going to seep into the paper and become part of the fiberglass so he is going to need a better surface and a release agent


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## Oramman87

Man thats gonna turn out really sweet!!!!


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## richiecarw

any chance of an update?


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## EZmoney

yo divine! updates plz!!


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## divine

Thanks to everyone who has been following this DIY. I am really busy right now with some final exams in machine design, thermodynamics, and CNC programming till next wednesday. Then I have a little over a month before i go back to work. During this time i will finish everything.

I found a few places to buy the fiberglass materials i need. I found epoxy paint for $105 for a ONE gal kit (aprox. 200 ft*ft) Ouch. But i want a few different colors to make it look real so i am going to try some hobby shops for a few smaller cans.

I got my tank positioned in the living room in the basement finally. I put plywood between the floor/stand and the stand/tank. There is also 3/4" styrofoam between the plywood and tank to ensure no stress in the glass when loaded with water if the stand is not perfectly flat.










If everything was easy nothing would be a challenge

Depending on how confident i feel about my exams, there could be a saturday or sunday fiberglassing. Don't worry this project will be completed soon.


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## DonnyBrasco

Were is the Update


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## richiecarw

richiecarw said:


> any chance of an update?
> [snapback]989150[/snapback]​





gamgenius said:


> yo divine! updates plz!!
> [snapback]989830[/snapback]​





DonnyBrasco said:


> Were is the Update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]1012279[/snapback]​


i wanna see the finnished article ;D


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## TC3modena

just taggin along to see how it comes out, its lookin pretty sweet


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## joefish219

where is the cave??? we are jittery cuz it is so cool


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## divine

Hello Everyone.

Sorry it have been so long since my last update. I have been busy wrapping up the end on my student life. I am now a mechanical engineering technologist graduate from SAIT! I am going to Rio, Brazil the day after grad (present from my mom) to visit her and my uncle (long story). Hopefully i will have a complete tank by then to bring some wild fish home to.

Anyways. I am just starting the fiberglass (still wet downstairs)









Laying down fiberglass/resin








Coca Cola add. Ha I am a pepsi drinker









YOU MUST USE GOOD QUALITY GLOVES. The resin is not good for you. I used nitrile gloves and they worked great. I used pam cooking spray as a release agent. Only time will tell how well that worked. If some paper towel/glue is stuck to the fiberglass i am going to soak it is water and introduce it to a pressure washer. put some resin on the mold first and then laid up the glass with resin on it too. Put more resin on top of the glass. going to complete it is sections to make it easier. I will have to rough up the edges of the fiberglass where the next section overlaps to ensure a good bond.

I will keep everyone updated as it happens.


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## spec-v

keep us posted lookin good


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## richiecarw

cool mate thanks for the update its gonna be sweet!
keep up the gd work!!!
Richie


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## DonnyBrasco

Looking Awesome can't wait to see finished cave


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## divine

I put down two layers of glass in one go. it is cured now and seems very strong. I don't think i am going to do another layer. I am just going to finish covering the cave. I can peel the cured fiberglass at the edge at a thin part pretty easily, so i don't think i am going to have too much of a problem seperating the fiberglass from the mold. MAKE SURE YOU DO FIBERGLASS WORK IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA!


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## DonnyBrasco

Were the pics


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## EZmoney

Congrats for graduating! I was wondering about this project too. Good to see that it is coming along as well!!


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## divine

Well i can't seem to upload pictures right now but i wil try again tomorrow. I have pretty much finished fiberglassing. Now i just need some finishing touches and I am off to the painter. My order from aquadirect arrived a few days ago. They have great customer services by the way. I built a custom light stand. It turned out pretty good. I wanted to make it out of aluminun but did have the extra cash right now so i used 1/2" MDF. This tank is going to be a planted tank. The lights are SOOOOOOO bright.

Anyways. I will post pictures asap.


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## divine

Hello Everyone,

I got the pictures to upload. Here they are.


















fiberglass is some pretty cool stuff. I hope I can get better with it

This is turning into a very expensive project. I hope when i am finished I can stand proud next to my tank and say i planned everything and built this.


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## eL ChiNo LoCo

Whoa, too long of a post to read! Looks good, watch out for any fish that die and end up in there without you knowing, causing the ammonia to skyrocket.


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## DonnyBrasco

Dam that tank looks awesome even empty can't wait to see is with fish in


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## TC3modena

its comin out pretty sweet, more picssss


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## divine

I have not been able to fiberglass the whole cave at once so i had to do it in sections. I used sand paper to rough up the cured resin where the next section/layer would overlap. I find it a lot easier to do smaller section at a time than larger sections. I also find it easier to mix up a small amount of resin at a time. this lets me take my time and not feel rushed, as the resin will start to harden and get tachy. If it is warm out (+15 C) and the resin is mixed with enough hardening agent, the resin will cure in about 2-6 hours.










This picture shows how much i roughed up the fiberglass. I used aluminun oxide sand paper with a large grit. it seem to work pretty well. Only the part at the very bottom on the picture is roughed up enough.










I used a desposible cookie sheets to mix the resin on. I got two for about $2.20 cad. you can see the larger container, this is the resin. the small tube is the hardening agent. I bought fiberglass cloth 4m by 1m. I cut strips about 3in by 10in and some other oddball sizes for harder geometry










I put each strip in the resin and used my hand to fully saturate the strip. Try not to have so much resin that it is dripping off the strip. As you later up the strips. use a roller or your hand to get the air bubbles out from between the strips.

I strongly urge you to use gloves, good ones. the resin is not good for you in a bad way. Do this in a well ventilated area.


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## benJii

i think u should send an article into the DIY section so all can get a step by step tutorial how to do this with out the annoying replys gitting in the way


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## EZmoney

Tibs said:


> i think u should send an article into the DIY section so all can get a step by step tutorial how to do this with out the annoying replys gitting in the way
> [snapback]1028027[/snapback]​










plus this thread needs to be pinned in the meantime


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## clintard_leonard

better hope that dosnt float!!


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## divine

Today i pulled apart the wooden mock up and pulled out all of the chicken wire and most of the paper/glue.

I put it in the aquarium just to see how well it fits. It still needs a little trimming to fix perfectly, but thats not a big deal I am going to pressure wash it, sand it, paint it and seal it. Then use silicon to around all the edges to attach it to the tank itself. I very happy with how it fits and looks so far.

It is very strong yet thin. It will have no problem sinking even before the silicon holds it in place.


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## BloOd-Omen

Dude, That's looking killer! Your fish are gunna Love it! keep the pics commin


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## aburnzi

WOW thats gonna be cool for your piranhas...i would love it if i was 1 of your piranhas..........


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## benJii

OMFG that is AWSUM!!!!!!


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## DonnyBrasco

Man that is way beyond awesome -- some sad news though i have decided to sell my last Red belly -- as here in South Africa i can't get more so make a shoal


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## greebo

Tibs said:


> i think u should send an article into the DIY section so all can get a step by step tutorial how to do this with out the annoying replys gitting in the way
> [snapback]1028027[/snapback]​


Deffo heffo.


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## EZmoney

That is freakin' sick!!!!!!!!!! It looks soooo good in the tank. I can't wait to see it painted!!! Great job


----------



## richiecarw

that is really gd mate, and the best part for you is knowing you did it yourself!!
theres nothing like the feeling of self accomplishment thats how i feel after a painting! awesome mate !!!!








keep the pics and updates coming mate!!
Respect
RichieC


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## "qickshot"

hopefully one fish doesnt claim it for him self. that would suck hopefully they share


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## killerbee

"qickshot said:


> hopefully one fish doesnt claim it for him self. that would suck hopefully they share
> [snapback]1031057[/snapback]​


I respect what u have done to get your piranha's some shelter per say divine but i agree with qickshot, what if instead it becomes a war zone. Piranha's normally fight for claimed territories. What if one tries to claim it for himself?

Or what if they take food in there and they don't consume it all, it might cause problems in the future with water parameters. I wish u the best of luck though.









PS: the driftwood kicks ass


----------



## divine

Hey everyone,

Thanks for you interest and replies to this project.

food rotting problem. I have way overkill biological filteration. about 15 gallons of bio media. Double the requirement of fully stocked tank this size. The whole tank is going to be very very planted as well.

As for territorialy fights. May the strongest win. On another note i think i might only have 3 or 4 piranhas (terns or geryi), maybe even just one if i find a serra i really like. Something really rare and interesting.

I don't expect everything to work out perfectly anyways, where the challenge in that.


----------



## clintard_leonard

your a little rich boy aint ya,

lucky little bastard


----------



## divine

Not that it matters but i just finished a job where I put in 13 hours day for 24 days as a laborer to go home for only 4 days for six months living 1100 km from home in a dry camp filled with 700 men and about 10 women. Have you ever worked outside when it is -45 C without the 30 km/h wind?

I have worked hard for everything I have.

This thread is going well, lets keep it that way please.


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## benJii

for me there is only one possible stocking list for that tank, SERRASALMUS GERYI!!!i swear i will make u my god if u put 6 geryi in there


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## Handikapped

that is gonna be awesome


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## aburnzi

Do another 1 other side and have it in 2 halfs so its like bunk beds lol.

Lets have some more pic's.thats lookin fukin ace..


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## divine

here is the final product, waiting to fully cure. It is trimmed to size and has been test fitted. I am really happy with how it turned out. Today i coated it with "make it stone" spray paint using a black and a sand color. then i put a layer of resin over the entire cave inside and out to ensure the paint will hopefully never meet the water.

Once cured i am going to use a bead of silicon to secure it in the tank and then i am going to fill my tank after the silicon is cured.

I only part i don't like is the line of resin from gravity







in the middle of the front face.


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## clintard_leonard

Now, make a mold, and mass produce them things buddy, You will have u a nice little business!


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## clintard_leonard

Hey!! Make a mold of that, then you can make them out of concrete or something


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## sjaracz

Way to go bro

the cave looks great

i see the spray pam worked for you too

very very nice


----------



## divine

It worked okay. With the help of a pressure washer, most of it came out. A little bit of paper towel bonded to the inside of the cave. But it got sealed in with a layer of fiberglass resin. So it should be okay.

I got a rock from next to a river up in the mountains on the side of a gravel road to put next to the cave. I will post a picture later (gallery not working right now). So when the picture is up, I would really appreciate the wisdom of any geologist as to whether or not this rock is chemically safe(not limestone or potassium, etc).


----------



## Genin

divine this project looks like it is going great. like Tibs mentioned, you should do an article write up and put it in the DIY. Many members would benefit from your experience here.


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## sjaracz

here you go a 1:30am quick one one but we can fix it up with some input maybe a faq now i know some of the images are not showing up it is related to pictures per posting rule nows lets see if we can improve what we got below then we will figure out ware it should go i also have this saved as html i can post a link for the html viem if a mod gives the ok

the divine diy cave project

materials and tools:

1/4" plywood
1" chicken mesh
elmers commerical glue
2" by 2" by 2' pieces
staple gun with 1/4" staples
1" screws
hand saw
philips screw driver
side cutters

First i made a mock up of my overflow. Then i started to cut and shape the chicken mesh. Then I started to cover the mesh with paper and glue. I am letting it dry so I can paper the inside/roof.

The I will cover in with plaster of paris. My mold will be complete

Then I will use the mold to made a fiberglass cave. I will then tear out the mesh, paper, and plaster from the fiberglass. Once the other pieces are complete they will be textured, painted, and installed.

http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591cave_1.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591cave_2.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591cave_3.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591cave_4.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591cave_5.JPG

I sparingly used 1/4" staples to attach the chicken wire to the plywood. The plywood can be taken apart from the outside by pulling out the Philips screws. The glue is water soluble. So I figure the use of a pressure washer should be able to remove any paper/glue I can't pull/peel off.

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591cave_6.JPG

there is extra paper at the base to absorb the excess glue

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1256-med.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1257-med.JPG

thought i would have to use plaster of paris on top of the layer of paper (paper towel and 3:1 hot water/elmers mix) but is seem very strong. I think i can put the fiberglass on top of the paper/glue. I am waiting for it to completely dry and then I will lay up the ceiling and inside. I cant get the paper/glue to stick upside down, so i will have to reposition the mold facing the opening upward. probably tomorrow.

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1258-med.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1261-med.JPG

have limited experience with wood, no experience with sculpturing. Had three labs on composites and failures (only about 2 hours of laying up material and curing). This is really a learn as you go kind of build. I am going to write up a complete "how to" after completing the setup.

Other projects to come in the next few weeks:

Fiberglass covers for other overflow and back wall of tank. 
DIY Aluminun lighitng fixture
DIY filteration (sealed sump, plumbing, and current)
DIY CO2

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1265-med.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1263-med.JPG

The 2 liter is just for a reference of the size.

I added paper/glue to the back wall of the cave(if you look closely at the bottom of the bottom picture it says "bottom" in black pen). I will let it dry and then paper the sides and roof after repositioning the cave again so gravity (the enemy) doesn't pull off the wet paper while drying.

When I say paper/glue. I mean I used paper towel wetted in my glue/hot water bucket. I cover the bucket (seen in the top right of these pics) when not in use. I microwave the glue to get it hot again

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/65916591IMG_1271-med.JPG

I finished the inside wall of the cave today. Tomorrow, I will finish the ceiling of the cave and the mold will be complete

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591IMG_1275-med.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591IMG_1274.JPG

I finally finished my mold. It will be a few days before i start the fiberglass
I am just starting the fiberglass (still wet downstairs)

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591IMG_1380.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/6591IMG_1383.JPG

YOU MUST USE GOOD QUALITY GLOVES. The resin is not good for you. I used nitrile gloves and they worked great. I used pam cooking spray as a release agent. Only time will tell how well that worked. If some paper towel/glue is stuck to the fiberglass i am going to soak it is water and introduce it to a pressure washer. put some resin on the mold first and then laid up the glass with resin on it too. Put more resin on top of the glass. going to complete it is sections to make it easier. I will have to rough up the edges of the fiberglass where the next section overlaps to ensure a good bond.

i put down two layers of glass in one go. it is cured now and seems very strong. I don't think i am going to do another layer. I am just going to finish covering the cave. I can peel the cured fiberglass at the edge at a thin part pretty easily, so i don't think i am going to have too much of a problem separating the fiberglass from the mold. MAKE SURE YOU DO FIBERGLASS WORK IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA!

[img]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1444.JPG

fiberglass is some pretty cool stuff. I hope I can get better with it

This is turning into a very expensive project. I hope when i am finished I can stand proud next to my tank and say i planned everything and built this. 
I have not been able to fiberglass the whole cave at once so i had to do it in sections. I used sand paper to rough up the cured resin where the next section/layer would overlap. I find it a lot easier to do smaller section at a time than larger sections. I also find it easier to mix up a small amount of resin at a time. this lets me take my time and not feel rushed, as the resin will start to harden and get tacky. If it is warm out (+15 C) and the resin is mixed with enough hardening agent, the resin will cure in about 2-6 hours










This picture shows how much i roughed up the fiberglass. I used aluminun oxide sand paper with a large grit. it seem to work pretty well. Only the part at the very bottom on the picture is roughed up enough.

http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1456.JPG

used a desposible cookie sheets to mix the resin on. I got two for about $2.20 cad. you can see the larger container, this is the resin. the small tube is the hardening agent. I bought fiberglass cloth 4m by 1m. I cut strips about 3in by 10in and some other oddball sizes for harder geometry

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1457.JPG

I put each strip in the resin and used my hand to fully saturate the strip. Try not to have so much resin that it is dripping off the strip. As you later up the strips. use a roller or your hand to get the air bubbles out from between the strips.

I strongly urge you to use gloves, good ones. the resin is not good for you in a bad way. Do this in a well ventilated area.

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1463.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1464.JPG

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1465.JPG

Today i pulled apart the wooden mock up and pulled out all of the chicken wire and most of the paper/glue.

I put it in the aquarium just to see how well it fits. It still needs a little trimming to fix perfectly, but thats not a big deal I am going to pressure wash it, sand it, paint it and seal it. Then use silicon to around all the edges to attach it to the tank itself. I very happy with how it fits and looks so far.

It is very strong yet thin. It will have no problem sinking even before the silicon holds it in place.

[IMG]http://www.piranha-fury.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_1546.JPG

here is the final product, waiting to fully cure. It is trimmed to size and has been test fitted. I am really happy with how it turned out. Today i coated it with "make it stone" spray paint using a black and a sand color. then i put a layer of resin over the entire cave inside and out to ensure the paint will hopefully never meet the water.

Once cured i am going to use a bead of silicon to secure it in the tank and then i am going to fill my tank after the silicon is cured.

I only part i don't like is the line of resin from gravity in the middle of the front face.


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## clintard_leonard

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH FIX THE PICS!!!


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## divine

I plan on writing up a more complete DIY but the gallery don't seem to be working at all right now.


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## divine

Some picture of my progress. I Just got home from a 2 week trip. I am going to start to finish and wrap up everything in the near future.

The final coat of resin to seal the paint in has lifted across 50% of the cave. I think this happened because i didn't sand the paint at all before applying the final coat. I am going to pull the cave out and refinish it.


































































This Check Valve is prevents water from flowing backwards back to the sump through the sump return line. It is needed because the return is under the water. It is a 1 1/2" flapper style gravity closed check valve. I had a spring loaded one but i decided it wiould shorten the life of the pump.


























The Current is amazing. It doesn't agitate the surface but 1500 gal/hr come out the return. I am going to change the UV plumbing to also return to the tank which will provide another 800 gal/hr of current. The plumbing inside the overflows prevents lots of agitation and the sump will soon be sealed (i have another piece of glass to cover the other side). There is very little agitation with the presence of Oxygen, so i feel i can kept the CO2 levels at a level right for my plants.


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## divine

The cave is only siliconed in at a few small places. The lighting still need work. Some reflectors of the florescent lighting and nice paint job. 525 watt of 6500K MH, 75 watts of 5000K florescent and 75 watts of 8000K florescent lighting provide pretty real sun. there are 650 watts of heating in the sump.

All the conrtols and electronics are going to be neatly mount on the panel at the back of the stand off the ground.


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## divine

filling the tank was a pretty exciting. I only had one very small drip at the smaller pump. but it was fixed by removing the seals and reinstalling them..


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## Fresh2salt

Why so much watts for lighting ? didnt know liveplants need that much light you have the watts to run a reeftank. lol


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## Death in #'s

dam thats some great work


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## Natt King Shoal

Awsome tank and set up! You have definatly got skills!


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## Piraya33

Damn, now that is one nice setup!!!! Congrats man!


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## JAC

nice man, can't wait until it's done.


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## verypointyteeth

you've got skills man!


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## EZmoney

I was wondering about this project. the cave turned out phreakin great!


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## killerbee

divine, This is amazing work...definately looking forward to your full tank setup after everything is said and done


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## "qickshot"

nice


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## zrreber

thats lookin really nice... all that hard work is gonna pay off


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## BigChuckP

Can you explain a little better about this part of the system. I understand you have water flowing down from your overflows into the sump and then one pump is pumping water back into the tank and one is pumping water into the long white thing and then back into the sump, or is it. So my questions I guess are what is the long white thing, and why is the tube going back into the sump rather then the tank?
Thanks!


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## CraigStables

BigChuckP said:


> Can you explain a little better about this part of the system. I understand you have water flowing down from your overflows into the sump and then one pump is pumping water back into the tank and one is pumping water into the long white thing and then back into the sump, or is it. So my questions I guess are what is the long white thing, and why is the tube going back into the sump rather then the tank?
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]1068719[/snapback]​


that 'long white thing' is a UV steriliser, and you are right looking at those pics the small pump is running that, and the larger one is running the sump.


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## divine

CraigStables is very correct. I felt that if i plumbed both pumps to return to the main tank, it would be to much flow (about 2200 gals/hr). It would a turn over rate of about 10:1. So i plumbed the UV sterilizer (Aqua UV 15 watts) to return to the sump right in front of the intake for the larger pump.


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## BigChuckP

CraigStables said:


> BigChuckP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain a little better about this part of the system. I understand you have water flowing down from your overflows into the sump and then one pump is pumping water back into the tank and one is pumping water into the long white thing and then back into the sump, or is it. So my questions I guess are what is the long white thing, and why is the tube going back into the sump rather then the tank?
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]1068719[/snapback]​
> 
> 
> 
> that 'long white thing' is a UV steriliser, and you are right looking at those pics the small pump is running that, and the larger one is running the sump.
> [snapback]1068779[/snapback]​
Click to expand...




divine said:


> CraigStables is very correct. I felt that if i plumbed both pumps to return to the main tank, it would be to much flow (about 2200 gals/hr). It would a turn over rate of about 10:1. So i plumbed the UV sterilizer (Aqua UV 15 watts) to return to the sump right in front of the intake for the larger pump.
> [snapback]1069037[/snapback]​


Thank you very much


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## EZmoney

Yeah, that is nice work on the plumbing!

I would suggest adding some PVC Unions so that you can easily diconnect the the plumbing from the tank without using a hacksaw everytime. I used to work for a swimming pool company and did a lot of PVC plumbing of equipment. Those unions make the work a lot easier! Obviously now is not the time to add them, but down the road they will come in handy.

Here a pic of a pvc union:


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## CraigStables

divine said:


> CraigStables is very correct. I felt that if i plumbed both pumps to return to the main tank, it would be to much flow (about 2200 gals/hr). It would a turn over rate of about 10:1. So i plumbed the UV sterilizer (Aqua UV 15 watts) to return to the sump right in front of the intake for the larger pump.
> [snapback]1069037[/snapback]​


actually the extra 800GPH wouldnt be added onto the other pump output to give you 2200GPH, it would simply be another 800GPH being output from another area.

Its hard to explain that but hopefully you got me!


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## BigChuckP

So what has happnend with your tank, any new developments?


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## divine

Everything is stable. There is a 130 pound rock i got from the mountains in there. I added about an inch of sand. There are 8 rbp, one got his ass bitten off and now he is in a sperate tank. I am unhappy with the level of noise from my pumps. (quiet one 3000 and 6000) I made styrofoam panels to cover the opening in the stand and reduce the pumps noise. I got a rock back ground. all the electrical is nice and neat mounted on a panel under the stand. I don't have any kind of mechanical filteration(working on that now) I started out with 650 watts of heating. I am at 400 now at 27 degrees, going to try 300 watts soon.

Next time i have an extra 500 dollars i am going buy florite and plant the whole tank.

The rbp dont normally go in the cave. The eight of them are not really afraid of anything and are not skiddish. They only really go in the cave when they get spooked. The cave still looks good. I post some pictures.

How do i submit a diy?


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## CraigStables

Did the styrofoam panels reduce the sound much, as this is the only reaosn Im not going for a wet/dry on my new tank.

Also, contact Judazz about the article and he'll point you in the right direction.


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## CTREDBELLY

divine said:


> Everything is stable. There is a 130 pound rock i got from the mountains in there. I added about an inch of sand. There are 8 rbp, one got his ass bitten off and now he is in a sperate tank. I am unhappy with the level of noise from my pumps. (quiet one 3000 and 6000) I made styrofoam panels to cover the opening in the stand and reduce the pumps noise. I got a rock back ground. all the electrical is nice and neat mounted on a panel under the stand. I don't have any kind of mechanical filteration(working on that now) I started out with 650 watts of heating. I am at 400 now at 27 degrees, going to try 300 watts soon.
> 
> Next time i have an extra 500 dollars i am going buy florite and plant the whole tank.
> 
> The rbp dont normally go in the cave. The eight of them are not really afraid of anything and are not skiddish. They only really go in the cave when they get spooked. The cave still looks good. I post some pictures.
> 
> How do i submit a diy?
> [snapback]1096533[/snapback]​


you dont really need flourite for the planted tank i have reqular white play sand and my plants wont stop growing i just use CO2 good ammounts of light and liquid ferts.


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## EZmoney

Please post some new pics with the fish, the 130lb rock, and everything else!!!


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## divine

I need to plant soon. My water has a green tint to it already (partly due to the driftwood i think). Things to do still: Moon light, florite, plants. Only one MH is plugged in right now.

I am having trouble taking a good picture of the tank. the light in the room is low, but high in the tank.

The rock in longer running from the front to the back of the tank. The picture and placement does not do it justice. I want to stand it up but i am afraid. it is really flat on one end.


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## divine

It took alot of effort to get that in the tank


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## clintard_leonard

looks really good, all except for that boulder, id replace that thing with some more driftwood or smaller rocks made into another cave


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## EZmoney

That is a big ass rock. Unless that boulder has a some special meaning to you, I agree with Clint - you should ditch that thing!


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## Genin

the cave looks great and the Ps seem to love it. good job. maybe some more plants like you said and get rid of the big hulking rock like the others said. that should help the natural appearance a bit.


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## divine

I think the flash scared them a little cause they spend most of their time inbetween the rock and the driftwood.

I like the rock but i am going to stand it up.  I'll post some pictures tonight. I am getting two more mature piranhas in the next few days about 7 inch. Total of 5 mature (no spots) and 5 with very light spots.

I am going to plant the area to the left on the driftwood to hide the return and the overflow and in front of the cave (very front right corner). I am going to try to carpet the rest of the tank with dwarf hair (i think that is what it is called)


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## edcal

the single boulder does stick out like a sore thumb...scatter a few smaller rocks around and it should be fine.







btw your cave and setup is lookin great


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## clintard_leonard

did you ever fix your cave after you tore it down getting to the injured? i really think you should take that boulder out and put a bunch of smaller rocks in and make more caves with them it would look really cool in that tank!


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## divine

Moved the rock a bit. I am thinking about moving the rock to the other side of the tank, that way it should look a little more balanced.

If I could do this all again. I would have coated the cave with a layer of concrete and i would have made a concrete back drop all the way across covering the overflow as well. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with how things turned out but the cave and the back ground don't qiuet match. Might switch to a black background when it gets planted

I like the rock. I think I am going to put a few smaller ones next to it as well

When I rescued the injured, all that was damaged was the silicon that was used to tack the cave down. I didn't repair it because the cave stays put without it now. Easier access for cleaning and such. S/he is healing well.

I have learned alot during this project. I hope you who have been following it have to.

-Travis


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## Guest

Great lookin set up









--Dan


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## King Oscar

damn realy nice tank


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## EZmoney

Well, Travis, after seeing this new pic, now I'm liking the rock too! Definately move it to the other side tho,
like you mentioned. And add some more smaller rocks near it.

Nice work on the project and documneting it in this thread... I have learned a lot too!


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## malicious1

thats pimp as f*ck. gg.


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## JAC

What are these?:

View attachment 75780


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## killerbee

JAC, they are probably ballasts for his lights.


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## BigChuckP

Just curious if you have an updated pic, your tank looks cool in the last pic you put up and will look cooler with what you were talking about(plants, small rocks around the big rocks, and a black bg).


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## Kemper1989

thats an incredible setup, pretty creative guy.


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## divine

Quick Up Date. Got a new job with a pipeline integrity management company as a field technician which requires a lot of travel in NA, Good money thought. Anyone who wonders if post secondary education is worth it, (aka college) it is! The Tank to stable and cycled and has one HUGE amazon sword. Parts of it stick out of the water. Orderd 15 bags of seachem onyx sand, it is not here yet. I am out of town right now (probably for the next two weeks), so no pictures right now, but soon, when it gets planted i will share pictures. I am also working on a electronically controlled automatic water change system that added ferts and 20 gallons of fresh water each morning before the lights kick in. I will be creating a DIY thread on this as is happens.

Thanks again for all the interest.


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