# Any info on breeding Elongatus?



## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

I'm looking for ANY info on Elongatus. Size of maturity. Compatability. Favorite foods. Water parameters. Any thoughts or ideas. I'm a newbie lol! A site search just turned up growth rates.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Fishnut2 said:


> I'm looking for ANY info on Elongatus. Size of maturity. Compatability. Favorite foods. Water parameters. Any thoughts or ideas. I'm a newbie lol! A site search just turned up growth rates.


check opefe

keep them in their own tank (75 gals for an adult- ie, not compatable). Foods are same as other piranhas so raw fish like talapia, shrimp, cod, haddock... Also dont concider cohabign if your admitting your a noob.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

also they have yet to be bred incaptivity


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

One thing I would suggest, and I admittedly and not a breeder, would be to get young ones from the same batch and try to grow them out when their younger and breed them. If you put some elongs in a tank together that have been in solo tanks for years it might not turn out so good. Remember, I am no breeder and I am not an expert on elongs, but I plan to be after I get mine soon.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Never been bred in captivity but thinking It can be done. Although little is known about spawning patterns and them being sexually dymorphic makes it even harder. I have some ideas on ways this could be achieved but would fill a page or two. Go for it man though Dr Giggles is a smart S.O.B and knows this game pretty well and being right about the admitance of being a beginner probably sets you up to fail. As it has never been done someone with your experience in marine breeding in general will have just as much a chance as Piranha expert with experience limited to this species and genus. I would go with as young as possible to start and from what I've read about Rhoms breeding in captivity I would think a 500 -1000 gallon for 2-5 would be a start. GO FOR IT FISHNUT!!!!! I believe in you man and hope one of us can get 'er done in this lifetime!!!


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks guys,
I started at Opefe. They didn't have much info. I'm pretty sure the 6 young adults (6") I'm trying to get, are already living together. I'm waiting for more info. Just wanted to check here, as I'm sure a few people already have them. I was looking for a past thread, but maybe I'm not searching the right way. Didn't find a lot with the search engine.

Edit: TY RnR...we were posting at the same time. Fill up a page with ideas.







There's room!


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Water Params-Slightly acidic P.H- 6.2-6.4
Sexually Mature-IMO around 6-7"
Ideas-like i said a bunch but main ones would be.
Water temp change to simulate dry season with changing flow of current as well
If a way to change barometric pressure that should be considered thinking a pressure regulated room as seasonal changes could be simulated this way
A ton of natural driftwood, plants, substrate and other marine life within the tank as close to the natural habitat as possible which requires study of river charts, fluctuating variables and conditions, and percentages of captures and which areas done in as well as a intense study of characteristics making these areas unique from general conditon of river overall.

I will add to this after I get the kid to bed tonight as I do have ideas of how they breed and also experimental ideas and equipment to try or at least bring forward that may help to the success rate.


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Here's what I found at Opefe. It appears to be a very old collection area map. It shows Venezuela covering about 1/3 of the continent, and appears to be in Porteguese. But it shows 90% of the collection areas in the deep whitewaters of the Amazon river. (from the article)http://www.opefe.com/images/elong_map.jpg

It suggests that the younger ones are found in blackwater rivers and whitewater rivers, near lagoons of floating plants. This suggests (to me at least) the islands that form from the sediment...near Ilha Caviana and Ilha Grande de Gurupe. Ilha apparently means island. This is also one of the biggest dots shown on the collection area map. What doesn't make sense, is that the main rivers that empty into the amazon there...are clearwater rivers. Mainly Rio Xingu.

Of particular interest to me, is the next biggest dot shown for collection. That dot is on the Rio *****, near Barcelos. This an area I've studied a lot. It is entirely a blackwater area. The only major whitewater system in that area is the Rio Blanco, which empties into the Rio ***** just NE of there. That area (and the area at Manaus) are known for Econtros das Aquas...or the mixing of the waters. These are areas where whitewater mix with blackwater (or vice versa). If this is thier spawning area...they might spend most of thier life growing out and living in whitewater, but enter blackwater to spawn. This would make it tricky...but not impossible to duplicate. I guess we won't know for sure...until somebody spawns them!


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Well...Trash that entire post. LOL

After checking a larger South America map...I can see that it IS an accurate map of Venezuela. It's showing Rio Orinoco...and NOT the Amazon. Although the blackwater spawning area could still be possible, the rest of my earlier post is useless. Delta Amacuro seems to be swampland, formed by river sediment...but it's not the islands I mentioned in the previous post.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

not a breeder myself. but good luck to you. im all up for captive breeding.
i have nothing new or informative to add apart from what everyone else are saying seem to be all common sence and a good basis to work with.
but as they have never been bred in captivity its hard to know what to do. if your serious about doing it, it will probably take a long while with some trial and error till you find out what works best when trying to breed them.

good luck to you and keep us posted on any progress


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Here's an update. Thanks to my new friend Baddfish...the 6 Elongatus will be arriving on tuesday. Cesar is taking 2, and I'll keep 4 of them. My new plan is a take-off from an idea NeedRedz gave me in chat. He suggested dividing a 125 into 3 sections, in order to increase the chances of M/F combinations. We were talking about Rhoms at the time, and I liked his suggestion.

But with the smaller Elongatus, I decided to divide the tank into 4 sections...using partitions going lengthwise and widthwise. Kinda like this: -+-. This increases the chances of a M/F combination tremendously...as all 4 fish have a chance to breed through the partition in the middle. The odds of 4M or 4F become fairly slim...and I'd still have the oppurtunity to trade with Baddfish, for the other 2 Elongatus. With 6 fish in the mix...it almost guarantees a M/F combination. It still doesn't mean that they will breed, but it certainly helps.

--Sorry about the brain fart in the previous post. I looked at that map, and seen the Amazon river. Fortunately I caught my own mistake--


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

At 5 fish the % of obtaining a breeding pair is around 96% range, at four is around the 85% range and was thinking if they spawn just due to memory like a salmon. Coming back up to where they were once concieved and if being the case would understand why it can and is so difficult to get a pair to do anything. Do it up Fishnut just make sure if you are successful you ship 10 of those fry this way eh!!!


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

What size tank do you plan on housing 6 elongs?


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

febsalien said:


> What size tank do you plan on housing 6 elongs?


Read above febs he is keeping 4 outta the 6 and planning to house them in a 125 if i read correctly.


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Fishnut2 said:


> Here's an update. Thanks to my new friend Baddfish...the 6 Elongatus will be arriving on tuesday. Cesar is taking 2, and I'll keep 4 of them. My new plan is a take-off from an idea *NeedRedz* gave me in chat. He suggested dividing a 125 into 3 sections, in order to increase the chances of M/F combinations. We were talking about Rhoms at the time, and I liked his suggestion.
> 
> But with the smaller Elongatus, I decided to divide the tank into 4 sections...using partitions going lengthwise and widthwise. Kinda like this: -+-. This increases the chances of a M/F combination tremendously...as all 4 fish have a chance to breed through the partition in the middle. The odds of 4M or 4F become fairly slim...and I'd still have the oppurtunity to trade with Baddfish, for the other 2 Elongatus. With 6 fish in the mix...it almost guarantees a M/F combination. It still doesn't mean that they will breed, but it certainly helps.
> 
> --Sorry about the brain fart in the previous post. I looked at that map, and seen the Amazon river. Fortunately I caught my own mistake--


Hey buddy that was me


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

OK I see now. Well I do like your divider idea/set up. But I'm not totally convinced they will breed threw it. It just seems like piranhas need a lot of personal contact with one another. Hell half the time when my golds breed they get really beat up. But I know if it was not for that they would not even breed. Ether way good luck. If it were me I would see how they interact with each other and in a few months maybe even remove the divider.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

febsalien said:


> OK I see now. Well I do like your divider idea/set up. But I'm not totally convinced they will breed threw it. It just seems like piranhas need a lot of personal contact with one another. Hell half the time when my golds breed they get really beat up. But I know if it was not for that they would not even breed. Ether way good luck. If it were me I would see how they interact with each other and in a few months maybe even remove the divider.


personally, that's why if i was to try and breed a species that has not been bred, i would go for piraya, or even geryi i would think have better odds because they can be housed together.


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Febsalien,

RnR has it right. 4 seperated in a 125, and 2 going to Baddfish. Cesar put this deal together! I have to revise the credit for the 3 partition idea. It was Blbig50, not Need Redz. Both were very helpful in chat that day...and I got them confused. I would've never came up with the 4 section theory, if he didn't mention the 3 section. I remember telling him I liked that idea as soon as he posted it. I just took it to the next level. We were chatting about Rhoms. I think 4 sections would be too small for Rhoms.

I may pull the partition like Febsalien mentioned. But I'd have be fairly confident they were conditioned and showing pre-spawning activity. Elongatus are hard to come by, and trying to get the same size would be even more difficult.

Oppurtunity made me choose the Elongatus. I was planning to try the Gold Maculatus.


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

I'll be picking up the 6 Elongatus in about 2 hours. I'll post on how well the 4 partition idea works, after the fish have settled down.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

If it is set up and ready to go create a blog fishnut and start documentation of the events please as I would find it usefull for when I try to do it. This way others who do want to give an attempt will benefit from your mistakes or findings even if you don't succeed it may help the overall goal progress.


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Really excited for some pics of this setup as well.


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

My computer's been down since thursday, so I apologise for not replying. The 4 section partition was a bitch to build...lol. It sure seemed easy when I planned it. One of the problems is my 125 has 2 plastic strips across the top...reinforcing the tank. It's a very old 125. That complicated making the partition fit. Another problem I had was filling the PVC with gravel (to make it sturdier). This is simple with a single partition, but becomes difficult when building sections underwater. The last issue was fitting all the pieces tight against the glass. Again...simple with 1 partition...tougher with a 4 way. I had to splice a few pieces in to make it work.

The good news is, that it works GREAT! All 4 Elogatus hang out in the center, where any potential spawning should occur. There are no signs of agression...and they are already eating well. These fish don't play! They devour food as soon as hits the water. Quick spurts of total aggression! I won't be sticking my fingers in thier tank...lol.

No pre-spawn activity, but they definetely are interested in each other. 90% of the time, they are in the center, checking each other out. The 4 section partition is everything I hoped it would be. I still have no idea if they will spawn through the partition. But the chances look promising.


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## massabsamurai (Mar 12, 2009)

great update. Although an update with the picz would be way better since we can get a better idea. That co-hab sounds cool tho. GL and keep us posted!


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

nice work so far man
sounds promising. post up some pics when you have a chance.
keep us posted. be so cool if they spawned


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Glad to get an update man. Really would like some pics though.


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Sorry, I don't do fish pics. I'm a breeder, not a photographer. My pics suck!


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