# Torn Liver



## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Gents,

last year one of the Dutch member's rhom died a sudden and unexplained death.
It suddenly started swelling up in the ventral area and died the next day (the guy put him out of his misery by freezing). It seemed to have lost equilibrium, though the swelling was around the liver / intestines area.

Parameters were :

PH = 8.0
GH = 10.0
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 25
TEMP = 27 degrees Celsius (80.6 F)

I just dissected it to have a look, and the liver was completely torn vertically. A brown, smelly fluid came from it when I cut the ventral part.

Has anyone ever seen such a torn liver before, or maybe know what could have caused it ?

I'm sure it hasn't been damaged by the incisions with the scalpel.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

thats crazy !!

i dont know what could have givin him that torn liver but indeed its insane


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

I got some pics HERE...


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

I have no idea but I am sure pics would help


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Smoke said:


> I have no idea but I am sure pics would help


See the link above


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Doh! (no coffee yet)


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

We posted at the same time, so it probably didn't show yet when you started typing your reply


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Is it possible it expanded in the freezing process & ripped? & evidence of this was lost upon thawing?


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

BRUNER247 said:


> Is it possible it expanded in the freezing process & ripped? & evidence of this was lost upon thawing?


X2 Thats a good point, Also could have been internal parasites. Do you have an general idea what the guy was feeding his rhom, it would help. I heard this could happen if the fish is fed feeders consistantly.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

BRUNER247 said:


> Is it possible it expanded in the freezing process & ripped? & evidence of this was lost upon thawing?


I don't think so, freezing makes it shrink and defrosting it makes it expand again. That may cause a small crack, but not ripping it completely apart.
Besides, I dissected the fish because it died after a strange swelling in that area.
So it explains the swelling and the death.

Apparantly it can be caused by several reasons : poor diet such as fatty foods, parasitical, or over medication.

The food was mostly shrimps and prawns, so low to moderate fat (1.0-1.4%). Can't have been the problem. As far as I know there hasn't been used any medication.
So maybe parasitical.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Anyways you said that area was swellen b4 he past rite


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Should you be able to see parasites if put under a microscope? If so, do you have a microscope to check it out?


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

I haven't seen anything, but I wouldn't know what to look for anyway.



piranha-freak101 said:


> Anyways you said that area was swellen b4 he past rite


Oi, is that Dolphin in your avatar ?


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Heh, some quick research indicates that a Microscope is almost necessary for proper parasitical diagnosis... These links are interesting:



> http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/microscope/micro01.htm
> 
> An essential piece of equipment
> 
> Without a microscope it is simply impossible to tell the difference between a water quality and a parasite problem. The microscope should be considered the most basic of tools in fish disease diagnosis - indeed, an accurate, full diagnosis of the disease and its cause just isn't possible without a microscope!!





> http://www.simikoi.com/article8.html
> 
> Step 2: you need to net some of the fish that are flashing and have a fellow koi club member help you take a sample of the fish's slime coat to examine under a microscope. Its really very easy once you do it a time or two. You will need :
> * a microscope ( nothing fancy just a basic microscope)
> ...





> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa041


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

memento said:


> Anyways you said that area was swellen b4 he past rite


Oi, is that Dolphin in your avatar ?








[/quote]


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Smoke said:


> Heh, some quick research indicates that a Microscope is almost necessary for proper parasitical diagnosis... These links are interesting:


Of course it is.
I have a binoculair and a microscope over here, that I use to take the micro-pics.
But one can not search for something, without knowing whát to look for.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Yes but can you at least distinguish the presence of parasites (as opposed to positively identifying a specific parasite strain)? Anyways, does your investigation end here then? Or you have some other plans to diagnose? Just curious as this sounds interesting...


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## Guest (May 12, 2011)

Nice to see the website coming a long memento.

I was just surfing around as I got a little curious as to what could cause a ruptured liver, do you think there's a possibility some type of trauma could of caused the injury or other internal injuries which lead to it rupturing?

Also read about abscesses causing it, so is there any sign of an abscess? With you mentioning the smell and the swelling, could be a possibility.


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## dcp5082 (Feb 14, 2011)

Traveller said:


> Nice to see the website coming a long memento.
> 
> I was just surfing around as I got a little curious as to what could cause a ruptured liver, do you think there's a possibility some type of trauma could of caused the injury or other internal injuries which lead to it rupturing?
> 
> Also read about abscesses causing it, so is there any sign of an abscess? With you mentioning the smell and the swelling, could be a possibility.


I agree, abscess usually will not heal. tough tho, that rhom looked like he was a brute


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