# first timer



## anthonycaf (Oct 4, 2006)

i have a large shoal of piranha i have 11 reds 3 caribe and 1 tern the tank is about 250 gallons
i noticed a few days ago some of the reds turning very dark and very aggressive this morning i went to feed them and notced eggs with one of the reds protecting the space what temp should the tank be at and what do i do 
thanks for any advice


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

well if your reds have bred already, it seems that they like whatever water params going on. if you have a spare tank available, set it up and get it cycling. it really all depends on what day the eggs are in, if their free swimming or still eggs with just tails, or eyes. Anyway, do you have a spare tank available? I would advise you to purchase a sponge filter, the larger the sponge the better as it will hold more nitrifying bacteria, also with the larger sponge filter you can use it for tank from 10-125gallons, depending what kind and how large of a filter you get of course. So, set up a tank asap. I myself use 10gallon tanks with an automatic water change system that is working well for me. Most breeders will tell you that its better to start out with a bigger tank, they lead to 40 gallon breeders. That works well too, but in my experience I find that the fry have a harder time finding food using a 40 gallon breeder, they're so small, tanks so big. You should purchase some baby brine shrimp eggs and practice hatching them, note that you're going to have to have a constant source of food for the small fry as they have little stomachs and you're going to have to feed them 3-6 times per 24 hours. Expect to spend a lot of time with your fry if you expect to get a high survival rate. Try to see if you could find someone who has some microworm culture and see if they would spare some to start your own. I find that microworms are a good alternate from freshly hatched baby brine shrimp as they are as small and the younger worms are even smaller than baby brine shrimp. Also with the microworms, as long as you take care of the culture, they will keep reproducing and you basically have an endless supply of food for your young fry. That's what I've got for you for now, let me know if you've got some questions. Congratulations on the batch of eggs and good luck. Don't worry though if this batch doesn't make it through, you'll definately get more eggs as rbp tend to breed on a constant basis.


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## anthonycaf (Oct 4, 2006)

thanks for the info
where do you get the food for the fry


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## repticland (Jul 25, 2007)

anthonycaf said:


> thanks for the info
> where do you get the food for the fry


freshly hatched brine shrimp works.


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

you can check your lfs, but honestly you won't find the quantities you need there, all you'll find it small bottles of it that won't last but a few days to a week if that. your best bet is to order the biggest can of baby brine shrimp eggs, the highest hatch rated one and it should last you for a while, here's the web site

http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com

I order my eggs from them all the time as well as other foods and frankly I don't think you'll find better deals on brine shrimp eggs. Good luck.


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Any updates on how your fry are going?


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

HI WELL IM HER TO ASK FOR ADVICE FROM STRYFEMP MY REDS HAVE BREED ALREADY I DONT KNOW WHICH ONES DID. LETS START WITH I HAVE A 60 GALLON LONG TANK WITH A WET AND DRY SYSTEM AND 7 RBS ADULTS EXACTLY 2 1/2 YEARS OLD AND I WASNT EXPECTING ANY BREEDING BUT IT HAPENED I DIDNT LOOSE ANY ADULTS SOME FIGHTING BUT THATS IT SO I CLEANED MY TANK AND SAW BABYS ALL OVER THE TANK SO I SEPARATED THE BABYS ABOUT 60 OF THEM AND SET UP A 10 GALLON TANK WITH A SPONGE FILTER AND HEATER. THEY ARE ALL DOING GOOD EATING 3 TIMES A DAY ON BABY BRIME SHRIMP AND FIRST BITES POWDER WHAT CAN I DO BETTER HELP. MY WATER TEMPS ON BOTH TANKS ARE 81DF. I HAVE NOTHING ELSE IN MY SIXSTY LONG BUT MY 7RBS MEASURING ABOUT 5IN-8IN IS THAT TO OVERCROWDED OR SHOULD I SELL 2 OF THEM. I LOVE ALL SEVEN OF THEM I RAISED THEM FROM DIME SIZE. OH THE REST OF THE BABYS IN THE 60 GAL TANK DISAPEARED ABOUT 20 LEFT HELPPP


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

RICARDO said:


> HI WELL IM HER TO ASK FOR ADVICE FROM STRYFEMP MY REDS HAVE BREED ALREADY I DONT KNOW WHICH ONES DID. LETS START WITH I HAVE A 60 GALLON LONG TANK WITH A WET AND DRY SYSTEM AND 7 RBS ADULTS EXACTLY 2 1/2 YEARS OLD AND I WASNT EXPECTING ANY BREEDING BUT IT HAPENED I DIDNT LOOSE ANY ADULTS SOME FIGHTING BUT THATS IT SO I CLEANED MY TANK AND SAW BABYS ALL OVER THE TANK SO I SEPARATED THE BABYS ABOUT 60 OF THEM AND SET UP A 10 GALLON TANK WITH A SPONGE FILTER AND HEATER. THEY ARE ALL DOING GOOD EATING 3 TIMES A DAY ON BABY BRIME SHRIMP AND FIRST BITES POWDER WHAT CAN I DO BETTER HELP. MY WATER TEMPS ON BOTH TANKS ARE 81DF. I HAVE NOTHING ELSE IN MY SIXSTY LONG BUT MY 7RBS MEASURING ABOUT 5IN-8IN IS THAT TO OVERCROWDED OR SHOULD I SELL 2 OF THEM. I LOVE ALL SEVEN OF THEM I RAISED THEM FROM DIME SIZE. OH THE REST OF THE BABYS IN THE 60 GAL TANK DISAPEARED ABOUT 20 LEFT HELPPP


Well, I really doubt that the fry that are left in the tank are going to make it, so you should just forget about those. Your pair, whoemever they are, should breed consitantly, so long as you keep up with your regular maintenance, probably around every 2 weeks or so. Good to hear that you saved a bunch of babies and set up a tank for them with a sponge filter and heater. Just keep in mind though that the very first batch isn't always a strong batch, so you might think about culling some. You're doing good, fry are eating, temps are good. Did you cycle your sponge filter before putting it into the 10gallon tank? I really can't think of anything else that you could be doing to better what you are already doing, just make sure to keep the feedings up because the fry are sensitive and can't go too long without eating before they succumb to hunger and die. As for your reds in a 60gallon long tank, yes that is mighty crowded for 7, 5-8inch reds. You should reach for 20gallons per fish or somewhere close to. I would suggest, if you've got the funds so upgrade to a bigger tank, the bigger the better. For your 7, I believe a 150gallon long tank would suffice. Throw us some pictures if you can. I myself have got a few batches of eggs from a few days ago that I'm working on. Good luck and remember to have fun with it.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

Thanks alot for your responce as far as an upgrade i have the money but lack the space what alternative should i take. I feel bad that they are overcrowded but didnt think of the space they needed 2 yrs ago as a biginner to rbp's the babys are still swimming around and havent lost any more recovered about 10 more babys how often will they breed and yes i cycled the sponge before placing the babys so i did have bacteria started and because of the wait for cycling i lost more babys i really doubt that i had more than 500 eggs or i simply did not notice

ps i will place pics later today


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Full grown reds can lay anywere from 500-3000+ eggs. About the space, I'm sure you can get away with a tall tank with the same gallonage, 150. It won't take up as much length of space. Honestly, anything bigger than what they're currently in right now would be better for them; you should get as big a tank as would fit whatever space you have.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

WELL GUYS HERE ARE THE PICS OF MY 7 REDS AND THEIR FIRST FRY (BABIES) THEIR DOING VERY WELL THANKS


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Thanks for the pictures and you've got some great looking reds there, nice and thick. Definately, definately get them a bigger tank because with them being crowded like that and a pair breeding, you have a high chance of losing one of those beautiful fish.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

StryfeMP said:


> Thanks for the pictures and you've got some great looking reds there, nice and thick. Definately, definately get them a bigger tank because with them being crowded like that and a pair breeding, you have a high chance of losing one of those beautiful fish.


 IM TRYING AND ARGUING WITH MY WIFE BUT ITS NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR ME SO IM PISED OF BECAUSE WE DO LACK SPACE SPECIALLY WITH SECOND BABY ON THE WAY SHOULD I SALE SOME WHAT DO I DO I REALLY WANT ALL OF THEM AND WILL MY FRY MAKE IT THANKS YOURE BEING VERY HELPFUL AND RESPONDING FAST I APRECIATE IT


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Sucks that you don't have the space, but congrats on the second baby. If I were you, yea I would want to keep all of them, but then again they really need the space to be comfortable. You could always get rid of some and free up some space, but then again I would only suggest keeping 3-4 in there. The thing with that is you still don't know which ones are the ones that have paired up and are breeding now, you might end up getting rid of the pair, or splitting them up. Do you have enough space for a 40gallon breeder tank? If that's possible, you could make a double rack setup for 2 40gallon breeders right, one on top of the other. With that setup, you could use one for the breeding pair, once you isolate them; this will also lessen the territories and fish in your 60gallon long. With the other 40gallon, you could use it to grow out your fry/fingerlings. Just a thought. Honestly, since you have a cycled sponge filter and you keep up with the regular maintenance of the tank and the feedins they should make it, no doubt. Just be sure and try to match up the water temperature as best as possible as they fry are sensitive to big differences in water temps.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

I WILL SEE WHAT I CAN DO THANKS ALOT I JUST FEEL GOOD THAT I CAN PROVE THAT I HAD SOME BABY REDS OUT OF MY OWN CROWDED TANK.JUST NOT HAPPY NOW THAT I NOW THAT THEIR OVER CROWDED


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

hey stryfemp i got rid of one of the ps he keped getting beat up i gave him to my brother and he put the red in a 20 gallon tall.do you think he will be okay tail is missing. he still has a good apetite. so my 6 remainder ps are trying to breed again and their is no fighting going on. the pair thats breeding is just in the corner and dont atack the rest for terf is 6 ps still alot for my 60 gallon long or am i good no more fights in the tank just the one that was getting beat up by all of them and hes gone im keeping my six for sure and by the way my babys are doing good they are growing by the day


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

So long as its just the tail fin that's been bitten off and not the muscle where the fin grows out from then it should grow back fine. I'm sure that your reds will be fine for now, but definately keep an eye for aggressive behavior as they are breeding and it could definately lead to a death in one of your fish.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

View attachment 160115
View attachment 160115
name='StryfeMP' date='Jan 11 2008, 06:05 PM' post='2109549']
So long as its just the tail fin that's been bitten off and not the muscle where the fin grows out from then it should grow back fine. I'm sure that your reds will be fine for now, but definately keep an eye for aggressive behavior as they are breeding and it could definately lead to a death in one of your fish.
[/quote]
YEAH ITS THE WHOLE BACK FIN BUT THE PIRANHA WAS JUST FEED BEEF HEART CHUNKS AND SEEMS TO BE JUST FINE HE LOOKS HAPPY IN THE TANK BY HIM SELF AND THE MISSING TAIL DOESNT IMPARE HIS SWIMMING. THANKS AND IM HAPPY THAT MY REDS HAVE MORE SPACE TO SWIM. WE MESURED THE P THAT MY BROTHER TOOK AND IT WAS 9 1/2 INCHES LONG HE IS THE BIGGEST LONER I HAD TO BAD THEY DIDNT END UP LIKING HIM AFTER THE BREEDING HAPENED .THE BIGG REDS LOOK GREAT AND NO MORE NIPS OR BITES








HERE ARE THE SIX THAT I HAVE LEFT


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

:laugh: SORRY JUST NOTICED I PUT THE SAME PIC TWICE


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Very healthy looking reds you have there, they look very good.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

THANK YOU


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

hey stryfemp any new pics on your babys


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Yes, I do have some pictures, I'll be updating my thread with them when I get the chance, I just got home from work, long day, just taking some time to relax with the lady.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

how many times should i feed my 3 week old baby reds i still have about 25 left most did die like you said but these left are eaters my fish are at it again too. what should i feed the babys besides baby brime and hikaris first bites ,microworms any thing else they still look pretty small to me any advise on food would be apreciated


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

RICARDO said:


> how many times should i feed my 3 week old baby reds i still have about 25 left most did die like you said but these left are eaters my fish are at it again too. what should i feed the babys besides baby brime and hikaris first bites ,microworms any thing else they still look pretty small to me any advise on food would be apreciated


Well, their main diet should consist of bbs right now really. But microworms are a good alternative, people have done good with hikari first bites, never used it myself, and you could also feed them decapsulated baby brine shrimp eggs; they're more nutritious in a sense that the little shrimps didn't use up the energy to 'hatch' and break through the eggs, don't know the nutritional break down of it. I don't really feed my fry anything but those that I've listed, they've worked for me in the past, specially microworms; life saver, and I don't think I need to add anything else to the list. You could also feed enriched daphnia. Some have used egg whites mushed up in some water to make a paste, gets real messy. I'm not sure of the others, but a quick online search should give you the answers you need, although the ones I listed before are the main ones, also there's nothing that beats fresh hatched baby brine shrimp for your fry.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

cool thanks heres a blury pic of the babys they do love bbs and hikaris first bites they are 3wks old


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

they look good, good job


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

MAN THESE DEVILS ARE GETTING BIGG FAST STILL 25 LEFT THEY ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE PIRANHAS NOW FEEDING FOUR TIMES DAILY BELLYS LOOK ALWAYS FULL


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

RICARDO said:


> MAN THESE DEVILS ARE GETTING BIGG FAST STILL 25 LEFT THEY ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE PIRANHAS NOW FEEDING FOUR TIMES DAILY BELLYS LOOK ALWAYS FULL


That's awesome, I'm sure you'll have more survivors next time around. I have many, so many that I think I'll have my 4x 40gallon breeders full of them! I'm having a real low death percentage so I should come out with what I hope to be 1000+ fish! OH YEAH!


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

oh yeah is a perfect word good luck and i hope i have a next time no more signs of breeding anymore but will see how often do they breed i think i asked you before but forgot,your servivor results in your experience that you have now from breeding them over and over i havent done anything difrent so will see if mine repeat there mating retual


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm more than sure that you'll get plenty more chances to work on your survival rates. I have now 5 true breeding pairs and am getting bogged down with the amount of eggs they are producing. Thanks to the microworms though, I always have something to feed the young fry.


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## RICARDO (Jul 3, 2006)

thats cool and micros do really work and they seem to like them alot its really cool to see them grow my son and i really get a kick out of it


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