# Starting a Saltwater Tank



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

hello everyone. I have decided to take the plunge into the world of saltwater aquaria as soon as I get some cash and some information I need. I have to warn everyone I am a complete newbie at salt so the question might seem extremely dumb at first!!! I will be coming back to this thread to ask more questions until I feel I have done enough research to make this leap.

My first question is:

What are the differrent types of saltwater tanks? I have heard of reef, like a semi-reef (with some fish), and no reef. What are the differences and distinguishing characteristics of all these types....

Thanks.


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## phensway (Apr 7, 2003)

well, im not much deeper in it than you are......... but i know that you love piranhas and sw has some really mean fish!!!!!!! i recommend startin at least a 30 bc you will only want to expand....... pfish has a great saltwater 101 thread....... that answers a lot of questions about equipment and cycling.......


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

reef includes corals, anemones and lots of mircoorganisms in it

semi-reef is just some anemones and a few microorganisms

no reef is a fish only tank

i think that is correct


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## -=BOB=- (Mar 6, 2003)

>well, im not much deeper in it than you are

haha, same here. It might be a idea to buy good salt book before rushing into buying thinks based on other folks opinions. I think its loot of misinformation on the net...

>What are the different types of saltwater tanks?

Oh there are many, dunno all of them but to get started lets mention some

based on the size there are:

-small (nano tanks, although they look attractive and small investment not recommended for beginners cause of the small amount of water is more difficult to keep the water parameters at one stable level)
- medium sized (something thats most of us have)
-big ones (180g and more, thinks big boys do)

based on water gravity:

- Brackish tanks (designed for inhabitants that naturally live in areas where rivers meet see)
-sw (well, salt water aquariums)

based on inhabitants you can chose from:

-reef ones to my opinion desirable aquarium mixed with fish, inverts and corals (to me something nice to watch cause of the range of organisms and colors inside)

-fish only (you might wanna chose this system if you wanna play it with aggressive organisms that are not classified as "reef safe or compatible")

-dedicated tanks (seahorses tanks, octopus tanks, tank busters aquariums etc...)


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

i have always wanted a octopus









here is a general rule for salt water i think

if you are new then dont go under 30g


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

There are FO (fish only) FOWLR (fish only with live rock) Then reef tanks.


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## Andrew (Mar 3, 2003)

Xenon,

Do you have any idea what type of fish you want to keep, or will you be focusing more on corals?


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Raptor said:


> There are FO (fish only) FOWLR (fish only with live rock) Then reef tanks.


 Thats the Gist of it. Welcome to the world of salt!


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Andrew said:


> Xenon,
> 
> Do you have any idea what type of fish you want to keep, or will you be focusing more on corals?


 thats the thing Andrew. This is a complete foreign territory for me right now so I am attempting to determine the answers to these questions well before I dive in head first.

Ok, what are the pros and cons of each type of tank?

Fish only? Fish with Live Rock? Reef?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Whjat are the types of fish you can have with live rock that will still allow it to look nice like it does in reef tanks?


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

fish only tanks are cheap, easy to maintain, and you just have to set up and cycle and then add fish

fish with live rock are pretty good because if the power goes out then the live rock will still be working in the tank and you ammonia and nitirtes will be ok still. these cost more and take longer becaues of curing of live rock, the high price of live rock.

a reef tank ares extrmely expensive because of the size and things you need

a fish and live rock tank would be good becaues some fish need places to perch on such as live rock. and anemones and other corols need places to latch on to

but you can go with a fish only tank with live sand and then just buy cheaper fake live rock


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## Andrew (Mar 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Andrew said:
> 
> 
> > Xenon,
> ...


I highly suggest using live rock for your biological filtration. Any type of fish will be fine with live rock. Some may re-arrange it a little.

With the methodology I use to set up SW tanks, the only equipment difference between a full blown reef tank and a FOWLR tank would be:
1. My choice of lighting. 
metal halides for a reef vs. power compact for FOWLR
2. Amount of live rock used. (less for FOWLR)
3. The use of a U.V. sterilizer for FOWLR not reef.
4. No dosing equipment for a FOWLR, except for auto-top off.

Pros and Cons:
With a reef tank you must keep your water parameters perfect. This includes testing for some trace elements, and dosing accordingly, or making corrections to your dosing schedule.
With a FOWLR tank, fish are more tolerant of Nitrates than corals, and the small amount of trace elements that are used are easily replaced just by doing a water change. So, your water parameters don't need to be perfect.

Unless you want coral eating fish, than I would do a reef tank. I know of no rule for how many corals you need before you can consider the tank a reef tank. IMO, one coral is enough to make it a reef tank. This is all based on having a tank with live rock to begin with.

There are nice predatory fish, such as lionfish, that are completely "reef safe".

A community reef tank where you have a variety of peaceful fish, such as a small school of firefish, which can be mixed with other fish species.

Most angelfish eat coral, but they are beautiful and some grow very large.

And don't forget snails, crabs, and shrimp. Most do great in a reef tank. But fish like triggers will make snacks out of them.

How big of a tank do you want to start with? Tank size may really narrow down your choices.


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## phensway (Apr 7, 2003)

by putting 2 and 2 together i can prolly tell you like aggressive fish (pfury=piranhas) im pretty sure that you have thought about triggers and/or eels........ both make great conversation pieces.......... same with lionfish, groupers, scorpion fish.......... andrew is right about what size tank......... i think fowlr is the best thing to start with, and then you could do a nano reef once you get your feet wet.......


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

yeah, tell us tank size and we will try to help you more

you know, it seems when the someone else makes a thread about this they only get a few replys. but when the headmaster comes on and makes a thread everyone bows down to him :laugh:


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

maybe i suggest you use liveaquarias chart on compatability of sw fish


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## Honda99_300ex (Apr 18, 2003)

do a Reef Mike...

after Amy has started working on mine, I am completely amazed!!


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Caution If you do a reef, You will find yourself starring at it for hours, And forget you have p's :laugh: G.L. Xennon Even if you do go with a reef the fish eat like champions (Well most of em with exception of the blennies)


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

personally, i would avoid setting up a grief tank until you have some experience with a FOWLR tank...being new to the hobby.

have you decided on a skimmer yet? the cpr backpacks are pretty nice, but that is just my personal opinion.

HTH


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

The tank I will be using to construct this tank is either a 55g or 75g. I will most likely just want a few peaceful fish to start off. And will most likely want to get fish that dont eat corals so I can explore the world of reefkeeping more and more.

What is the mandatory equipment outside of freshwater. A skimmer I presume....anything else?


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Raptor said:


> Caution If you do a reef, You will find yourself starring at it for hours, And forget you have p's :laugh: G.L. Xennon Even if you do go with a reef the fish eat like champions (Well most of em with exception of the blennies)


 I can attest to that..... Xenon Alot also depends of what size tank you are thinking.... But for you, I'd say triggers would be great!


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

As for skimmers in a reef,More and more are not using one. I use one, And i don't notice any differance with my corals doing worse than before i used one for cycling
My liverock when i cured it gave off loads of scum, So the skimmer helped there. I recently had a bacterial bloom. (Stirred up the sand bed :agh:Shouldn't have) And my skimmer saved the day pulling out the waste









Damselfish, Clownfish, Tangs (In the size tank you are using i would only use a yellow, Or a purple tang) Blennies, Chromis, There are alot others i can't think of right now, But Ther are a wide variety of crustations you can get.

Skimmer, Good lighting, And live rock are the most expensive thing. Other than that everything else just nickle, And dimes you to death








You'll feel like a mad scientist with all the addatives, and tests you do, But i sure think it is worth it.


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

there are definately similarities and differences with both, other than using a skimmer....well, at least for most people. (you can go skimmerless on some set-ups if frequent water changes are performed.)

reef tanks, depending upon the species of inverts chosen, can range from moderate to a flat-out pain in the ass as far as keeping them goes.

one thing i have noticed is a lack of so much need for heavy mechanical filtration on most SW tanks compared to FW. many people use a skimmer, LR, and a power head(s) for current and thats it! or you can run a hob filter for some mech and current at the same time, plus you can run carbon if you choose to do so.

most people rely heavily on their LR to provide their biological filtration, which is also hard for FW people to understand at first.....

skimmers remove a lot of those DOC's before there are ever broken down into other forms of waste, and many of them are quite good at it. most people i talk to use a skimmer on all of their tanks unless they are doing a nano set-up.

patience is the key to everything in the SW hobby.

while many people have beautiful, prisitne reef tanks with few to no problems, there are just as many people out there who are doing everything right who _still_ have problems with certain critters, so i dont believe ANYONE who says that it is easy.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I just read Andrews article and I must say it is well written and answered some questions of mine.

Would you guys say go with the 55g or 75g? I am leaning more and more towards starting out with a FOWLR tank. I hear everyone saying they cant keep their eyes off of it due to the amount of activity (crabs, shrimp, other crazy stuff). Is this still possible with a FOWLR tank?


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

certainly!

with a FOWLR tank you also dont need to put a bunch of money into expensive lighting......a definate plus

i really enjoy the types of shrimp and crabs the most to be honest....you can have a very cool FOWLR tank bro


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Yes, Granted you have fish in there that won't eat em, They will be fine. Plus the live rock needed is much less than a reef. But you will definately be better off with a skimmer on a fowlr tank. Go with the 75 gal, That will give you a lil more options with the fish.


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

i just read the article from Andrew...he pretty much covered everything i said and then some....sorry for the rehash :sad:

the only thing i disagree with is his depiction of wet-dry filters becoming outdated.....i think that they are unnecessary, but they are still pretty darned popular with a lot of SW people.


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## Andrew (Mar 3, 2003)

Xenon: Definitely get a 75, you will appreciate the extra width when you are aquascaping it. I would even take a 36" x 18" footprint tank over a standard 55g.

FOWLR would be a great start. Just my opinion, but I would pick "reef safe" fish, so you can have snails, shrimp, and crabs. Then if you want to upgrade your lighting and start adding corals later on you can.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

ok you sold me. Ill use the 75g im picking up this weekend. Is there a listing somewhere of "reef safe" fish so I can begin to determine what livestock I want in it? Do FOWLR tanks still allow the live rock to become all those beautiful colors? Andrew from your article you said a 1 inch base of live sand is a good substrate? I will get that from Aquarium Center in Baltimore.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I personally cant believe any more filtration is needed outside the live rock. That is amazing. I might throw a cansiter in there for some carbon as well.

I also readin Andrews article that a lot of water flow is a good thing, so I should grab a few powerheads as well eh?


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

you go to aquarium center in baltomore to? i love that store









i dont know anything about friendly fish really cause i wanted an aggessive tank

but get a few crabs cause these are really neat to watch a colorful


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## Andrew (Mar 3, 2003)

The colors on the rocks you see is coralline algae. It can be pink, purple, orange, green, dark red, etc.
You will have to keep your calcium levels up to grow it, but yes you can have it in a FOWLR tank. Eventually it will grow on your glass as well. Don't buy any urchins if you like coralline algae, they will eat it.

I am not sure if there is a list of just reef safe fish, let me see what I can find.
If you want, maybe start a thread and everybody can list their favorites with a little info about them, and a pic.

I am not sure what kind of live sand aquarium center has. If all they have is the live sand in water in a sealed bag, don't get, it's not worth it. You could start off with dead sand and let your live rock innoculate it. You could also get a kit from 
http://www.inlandaquatics.com/ that will seed your dead sand.

You should check out this site. Dr. Mac is located on the eastern shore in MD. sometimes if you order a descent amount from him, he will meet you at BWI airport, or somewhere across the bay bridge.
http://www.drmaccorals.com/

There are some good stores in VA too. But the prices are very high. 
I mostly purchase dry goods from on-line stores.
Marinedepot.com and premiumaquatics.com are very good ones.

Let me offer some equipment suggestions. I can't help it, I am an equipment nut.
I am guessing the 75 does not have an overflow, so you will need some hang-on equipment.

Protein skimmer: 
Aqua-c remora pro, if the pro is too much $$ then the remora will suffice, get the drain fitting upgrade.
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_protei...ora.asp?CartId=
don't get the rio pumps, choose the other pump.

RO or ro/di unit:
Kent marine, any of the GPD (gallons per day) is fine.
The maxxima's are nice
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_revers...ima.asp?CartId=
But if it's about $$, then these will work too.
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_revers..._ro.asp?CartId=

RO/DI water is about 7% more pure than RO water.

Power heads: 
2 maxi-jet 900 powerheads

For the canister you mentioned, get one of these surface skimmers to get rid of the "oil slick" that will from on top of the water.
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...ategory_id=2837
Carbon in the canister is a good idea, just no floss or other media. Unless you need a phosphate sponge.
Position the return of the canister to break up the water surface to promote gas exchange.

pH monitor:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=AMPHMK

Auto-top off system:
This will be pieced together.
Hang-on style Auto-top off switch with cord and SNAIL GUARD, snail guard is a MUST.
http://www.californiareefs.com/forsale.htm
Maxi-jet 600 powerhead for getting water from bucket to tank.
A 5 gallon bucket with tight fitting lid to hold ro/di water. A rubbermaid tub will suffice too.
Some tubing and fittings to get water from bucket to tank. (see picture at California reefs).

Lighting:
even though you are just doing FOWLR, this is a nice fixture with 4 moonlights.
http://www.championlighting.com/e/env/0001...maincn48465-a
You could keep some soft corals with this fixture too. Soft corals are much hardier corals than SPS or LPS.
The company that makes this fixture (CSL) is going out of business, but champion lighting will honor the warranty if you purchase from them.

Heater, temp guage, test kits, saltmix, refractometer, and I think that about covers it.

Since you are starting out from scratch, I would go with the new Oceanic salt. Get the 200g mix from Aquarium Center, they have the best price in MD, DC, VA for this salt.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I am gonna start putting some money away for this now....I definatly dont want to skimp out on any equipment.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

jeez, Mike first a cichlid tank and now an SW tank?? Looks like someones lost interest in p's lol....


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

crazyklown89 said:



> jeez, Mike first a cichlid tank and now an SW tank?? Looks like someones lost interest in p's lol....


 doesnt mean that. I just want to explore different ends of the hobby. I will always own piranha.


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## JAC (Jan 19, 2004)

I know it's lkind of an old thread but I wanted to know if you have gone through with it or not. I'm looking into SW tanks as well.


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## EnFuego (May 27, 2004)

I run a refugium on my tank that basically just houses my skimmer, and serves as a holding place for more LR and macroalgae. Most people who set up reef tanks don't use wet/dry filters b/c the bio-balls will basically start to hold in nitrates. A refugium is a good way to add to the filtration of the take via more LR, and even using macroalgae (like chaeto, etc) which will help to keep nitrates low. I run this on my reef tank though, which is different from a FOWLR tank as far as water chemistry needs are concerned. I don't know much about FOWLR, but I think a lot of people are using wet/drys on those types of systems. Also something to think about with LR is not only will it be your main source of filtration (if you go that way), but some fish like blennies, etc will use it for hiding places for some of the less aggressive fish so they don't stress out.

Last thing, You can save a lot of money on LR (it is quite expenxive most places) by buying some base rock, and using that along with the live rock, because over time it begin to basically turn into live rock. I bought a few pieces of Dry fiji rock that a lfs forgot to put out on display for $2/lb as opposed to $8/lb that it was normally (Got it after my tank was set up, but really like the shapes of the rock). As long as you have some LR in the tank, life will spread to it, and coralline algae will grow on it in time.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Nope he didnt.


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## EnFuego (May 27, 2004)

haha, i didnt even realize this was an old thread.


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