# Serra I.D.



## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

The pic isn't the greatest but its the only one that I'm able to upload. I'm not going to say what this fish was sold to me as at the moment because I do not want to sway anyone's guesses. Frank please feel free to respond by giving your opinion, I'll try to get better pics up as soon as possable.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

Here's another shot under a different setting.


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

S.gibbus IMO


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## glockner99 (Nov 2, 2005)

Looks like a young Rhom to me....


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

It is an odd shaped fish...but I would have to say rhombeus based on those pictures. I cant see the spotting very well though. I think gibbus might be tossed around a little much now...Im not even sure that it is a real species....


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Rhombeus for now get up some flank shots


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## Fomoris (Mar 13, 2005)

Yes, it looks like a S. gibbus !


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## calienteboyy (Nov 26, 2006)

I think Gibbus.


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## waldron (Jan 15, 2007)

Rhom look at the eye and the humeral spot forming


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

waldron said:


> Rhom look at the eye and the humeral spot forming


Gibbus have red eyes too and theres no humeral spot.


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## waldron (Jan 15, 2007)

no no ..see how the black runs through the center of the eye.. and in the first pic i can see the humeral... i could be wrong i am not frank or anything lol


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

waldron said:


> no no ..see how the black runs through the center of the eye.. and in the first pic i can see the humeral... i could be wrong i am not frank or anything lol


Both species are closely related, gibbus maybe even considered a sub species of rhombeus.


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## waldron (Jan 15, 2007)

Ja said:


> no no ..see how the black runs through the center of the eye.. and in the first pic i can see the humeral... i could be wrong i am not frank or anything lol


Both species are closely related, gibbus maybe even considered a sub species of rhombeus.
[/quote]
'

good to know man .... i know alot but i keep learning i love it.. ( frank watch out lol ) hey jah.. send me apm


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## Puddjuice (Mar 11, 2004)

I think it is a Gibbus. This isn't a guess either. The head of the Gibbus looks more rounded as where the rhomb's head seems to have more distinct curves, that boney hump directly above the gills, and the hump near the dorsal fin. Also the gibbus has a tailfin that seems to usually be flat from the north end of the fin to the south part. Rhoms tend to have a small dip in the center looking from top to bottom. So imo I think you bought a Gibbus.

Even if I am wrong and this guys a rhom, you still have a killer fish. Nice red eyes and well taken care of. Good job.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

You can't see it with this light and subtrate but it's got a gold to orange color on it's belly and gill plates but closer to orange which is cosistant to the coloration of s. gibbus if I'm not mistaken.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

waldron said:


> no no ..see how the black runs through the center of the eye.. and in the first pic i can see the humeral... i could be wrong i am not frank or anything lol


Both species are closely related, gibbus maybe even considered a sub species of rhombeus.
[/quote]
'

good to know man .... i know alot but i keep learning i love it.. ( frank watch out lol ) hey jah.. send me apm
[/quote]
I'm no where near Frank's level, he knows everything about piranhas I'm just a novice.


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## 35655 (Feb 18, 2007)

Nice fish...I think S.Gibbus.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I think you need to know the collection point to get a positive ID on gibbus.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I think you need to know the collection point to get a positive ID on gibbus.


They were ID'd by Frank to the seller as s. gibbus but I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller with the info about the collection point.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

If Frank ID'd them positively...then they were collected from the Rio Araguaia.


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## KRSwop1 (Feb 17, 2003)

Ok, So I've been out of the Piranha game for a while now, but I thought that gibbus wasn't a valid species or something. I thought that it was just lumped under the rhombeus classification, like many other species (Diamond, High back, etc.) and just known as a varient. Are there any current cases of the rhombeus species being further investigated (DNA samples, etc.) to separate the species? I thought it would just be an Araguaia Rhom, just like a rhom from the xingu river would be a Xingu Rhom. Can someone please fill me in? Thanks.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I would look at opefe and review the gibbus section...then maybe ask Frank to further explain some specific issues.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

This has got to be one of the most highly debated piranha species maybe even more so than the whole ternetzi/natterari debate lol.


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## KRSwop1 (Feb 17, 2003)

Yeah, I read the opefe section on gibbus and it was the same as when I used to be on here regularly. The original holotype was lost, right? And if I remember correctly Frank was still considering the araguaia species to be rhombeus. I wasn't sure if that changed.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Yes...the holotype was lost...but then I think they found one that was stuffed with straw. If a picture is posted that fits the description of S. gibbus and was collected out of the Rio Araguaia....the I think Frank is calling it S. gibbus...or possible S. gibbus. Hopefully he will chime in on this.

I dont think there has been much debate about this fish at all...or relatively little...because of the lost holotype. I think once that happens...it is no longer a recognized species...but since they may have found one....then the fish needs to be from that river and meet the description to possibly be a S. gibbus.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Yes...the holotype was lost...but then I think they found one that was stuffed with straw. If a picture is posted that fits the description of S. gibbus and was collected out of the Rio Araguaia....the I think Frank is calling it S. gibbus...or possible S. gibbus. Hopefully he will chime in on this.
> 
> I dont think there has been much debate about this fish at all...or relatively little...because of the lost holotype. I think once that happens...it is no longer a recognized species...but since they may have found one....then the fish needs to be from that river and meet the description to possibly be a S. gibbus.


Maybe it's just that I pay a lot of attention to this subject because of my situation so I guess that's why it seems like a there's been a lot of debate over this fish to me.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

S. gibbus is a valid name. However, the Rio Araguia river has both S. rhombeus and the miniscule elongated S. gibbus cf rhombeus. No systematist has deteremined whether it is a subspecies or the accepted valid species name "gibbus" for this semi-elongated forum. If you have a fish that is from the 1) Rio Araguaia 2) has a yellow gill as opposed to a red-orange gill 3) slightly elongated than S. rhombeus, then very likely you have S. gibbus.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

hastatus said:


> S. gibbus is a valid name. However, the Rio Araguia river has both S. rhombeus and the miniscule elongated S. gibbus cf rhombeus. No systematist has deteremined whether it is a subspecies or the accepted valid species name "gibbus" for this semi-elongated forum. If you have a fish that is from the 1) Rio Araguaia 2) has a yellow gill as opposed to a red-orange gill 3) slightly elongated than S. rhombeus, then very likely you have S. gibbus.


My fish fits your discription to the T but I'm still waiting to hear back about the collection point. All I know is that my fish is from Brazil I just don't know which river.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

hhmmmmmmmmmmmm after look for a while at the fish and not looking what other people have said the only fish i came up with was gibbus.....................................


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