# How many feeders to Cycle 100 gallons in five days?



## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

If there is a formula for this I'll be shocked, at least moderately surprised. 
Petco: small feeders ($0.10 each). 
100 gallon tank with temporary filtration system (Emporar 400).
3 small plants.

Oops, this should be in the Water Chemistry forum. Thanks.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

feeders dont make it cycle that much faster so i wouldnt use any and juast use something like "bio-spira" to helpo speed up the cycle


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.

Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks guys. I'm going to get some bio spira.


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## boostinger (Feb 6, 2007)

BioTeAcH said:


> You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.
> 
> Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


sorry to say this but that is bull sh*t i have 10 reds and i had them in a 55 when they were small about an inch and i found a great deal on a 125 so i bought it and filled it put the chlor out in and waited for about 30 to and hr and put the fish in i never cycled or anything and i have never lost a fish ever i now have 15 in there and the smallest one of the 10 i had in there from the start is 6-8 so cycling is bogas sorry to say but you dont need to and i have done that to every tank i do complete water changes to with 100% of water out i heat it up and throw them back in so you dont neet to cycle so there r my 2 cents


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

how is this the coolest question ever?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

boostinger said:


> You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.
> 
> Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


sorry to say this but that is bull sh*t i have 10 reds and i had them in a 55 when they were small about an inch and i found a great deal on a 125 so i bought it and filled it put the chlor out in and waited for about 30 to and hr and put the fish in i never cycled or anything and i have never lost a fish ever i now have 15 in there and the smallest one of the 10 i had in there from the start is 6-8 so cycling is bogas sorry to say but you dont need to and i have done that to every tank i do complete water changes to with 100% of water out i heat it up and throw them back in so you dont neet to cycle so there r my 2 cents
[/quote]

I'll give you a refund if you use a few punctuation marks and label your units...I see a few things where a label could help your argument...and I also wonder how often you do these "water changes to with 100% of water out" (sic)?

If they were really small when you threw them in the 125, it's likely that they wouldn't add enough waste to your water to cause a problem if periodic water changes were done...so, in effect, they cycled the tank for you...before a problem occurred.

If you don't believe in cycling, I would like you to try an experiment. Go buy several thousand dollars worth of large pygos and throw them in a 500 gallon tank, sans cycling, and see what happens. (I give this experiment, because I believe you won't do it...it would be irresponsible for me to suggest that if I at all believed you did it.)


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

odyssey said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


More like the most absurd. The idea of using feeders to cycle a large tank sounds strange. Don'tcha think mate?


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

boostinger said:


> You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.
> 
> Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


sorry to say this but that is bull sh*t i have 10 reds and i had them in a 55 when they were small about an inch and i found a great deal on a 125 so i bought it and filled it put the chlor out in and waited for about 30 to and hr and put the fish in i never cycled or anything and i have never lost a fish ever i now have 15 in there and the smallest one of the 10 i had in there from the start is 6-8 so cycling is bogas sorry to say but you dont need to and i have done that to every tank i do complete water changes to with 100% of water out i heat it up and throw them back in so you dont neet to cycle so there r my 2 cents
[/quote]

This is not bullshit. Perhaps you should reread the thread. I never said you couldn't toss piranhas in and cycle a tank with them in it...I said you can't cycle a tank in 5 days. Whether or not you cycle before adding p's wasn't the question. Stay on topic.

I personally would never cycle a new setup with valuable fish in it unless I did one or more of the following:
1) Added mature substrate
2) Used an established filter or at least established filter media
3) Heavily planted it

Childawg is right on as well...a bunch of tiny fish in a large tank won't cause a large enough ammonia or nitrite spike to seriously harm or kill them. Do that with a smaller tank or larger fish and you could cause irrepairable damage to your p's! Doing 100% water will help with nitrates, but if your filters aren't established, you will be causing mini-spikes of ammonia and nitrite.


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

yourockit said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


More like the most absurd. The idea of using feeders to cycle a large tank sounds strange. Don'tcha think mate?
[/quote]
no


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

odyssey said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


More like the most absurd. The idea of using feeders to cycle a large tank sounds strange. Don'tcha think mate?
[/quote]
no :laugh:
[/quote]
Oh well.


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

yourockit said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


More like the most absurd. The idea of using feeders to cycle a large tank sounds strange. Don'tcha think mate?
[/quote]
no :laugh:
[/quote]
Oh well.
[/quote]

im only messing mate, i know what you mean....kinda :laugh: sorry to derail your thread.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

odyssey said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


More like the most absurd. The idea of using feeders to cycle a large tank sounds strange. Don'tcha think mate?
[/quote]
no :laugh:
[/quote]
Oh well.
[/quote]

im only messing mate, i know what you mean....kinda :laugh: sorry to derail your thread.








[/quote]
It's all fine and dandy, I know your type, for I'm an Englishman in Cali.


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

good man, you should be on the uk forum then haha!


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

odyssey said:


> good man, you should be on the uk forum then haha!


California is better.


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

yourockit said:


> good man, you should be on the uk forum then haha!


California is better.








[/quote]

and an illegal state


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## Dizzy Dawg (May 1, 2007)

yourockit said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


More like the most absurd. The idea of using feeders to cycle a large tank sounds strange. Don'tcha think mate?
[/quote]

And the thought of doing it in 5 days, also strange?

Only way to have a tank ready that quick is using an established filter or filter media


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Or some nice beneficial bacteria in a bottle, i.e., Bio-Spira.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Yeah, I am going to do bio spira. How long does it take for the stuff to work?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

You can stock within 24 hours: http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

awesome.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I know; I love the fact that Bio-Spira is in our hobby. I was skeptical at first, but as long as it's kept refrigerated every step of the way, it's been good to the hobbyists I know who've used it.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

should i still do a water check after using it? if so, which kit should i get?


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## Dizzy Dawg (May 1, 2007)

You should do water checks on a regular basis regardless of whether your tank is cycling or already cycled. I do mine two times a week.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Dizzy Dawg said:


> You should do water checks on a regular basis regardless of whether your tank is cycling or already cycled. I do mine two times a week.


what should i buy for that?


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

boostinger said:


> You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.
> 
> Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


sorry to say this but that is bull sh*t i have 10 reds and i had them in a 55 when they were small about an inch and i found a great deal on a 125 so i bought it and filled it put the chlor out in and waited for about 30 to and hr and put the fish in i never cycled or anything and i have never lost a fish ever i now have 15 in there and the smallest one of the 10 i had in there from the start is 6-8 so cycling is bogas sorry to say but you dont need to and i have done that to every tank i do complete water changes to with 100% of water out i heat it up and throw them back in so you dont neet to cycle so there r my 2 cents
[/quote]

You should be banned, since I've been reading your previous posts, and all the advice you've been giving out is plain dangerous should anyone actually listen to you.


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## boostinger (Feb 6, 2007)

BioTeAcH said:


> You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.
> 
> Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


sorry to say this but that is bull sh*t i have 10 reds and i had them in a 55 when they were small about an inch and i found a great deal on a 125 so i bought it and filled it put the chlor out in and waited for about 30 to and hr and put the fish in i never cycled or anything and i have never lost a fish ever i now have 15 in there and the smallest one of the 10 i had in there from the start is 6-8 so cycling is bogas sorry to say but you dont need to and i have done that to every tank i do complete water changes to with 100% of water out i heat it up and throw them back in so you dont neet to cycle so there r my 2 cents
[/quote]

This is not bullshit. Perhaps you should reread the thread. I never said you couldn't toss piranhas in and cycle a tank with them in it...I said you can't cycle a tank in 5 days. Whether or not you cycle before adding p's wasn't the question. Stay on topic.

I personally would never cycle a new setup with valuable fish in it unless I did one or more of the following:
1) Added mature substrate
2) Used an established filter or at least established filter media
3) Heavily planted it

Childawg is right on as well...a bunch of tiny fish in a large tank won't cause a large enough ammonia or nitrite spike to seriously harm or kill them. Do that with a smaller tank or larger fish and you could cause irrepairable damage to your p's! Doing 100% water will help with nitrates, but if your filters aren't established, you will be causing mini-spikes of ammonia and nitrite.
[/quote]

the small tank this is bull sh*t to becase i started with a 10 gallon 10$ tank form walmart filled it and through them in i had 4 at the time i never cycled it and ya they are still here today


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

How large were they and how long have you kept them alive?


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

boostinger said:


> the small tank this is bull sh*t to becase i started with a 10 gallon 10$ tank form walmart filled it and through them in i had 4 at the time i never cycled it and ya they are still here today


And around and around we go...what does this have to do with cycling a tank in 5 days?

Just because they survived, doesn't mean squat to this conversation. Cycling a tank is the process of establishing the bilogical bacteria needed to break down fish waste and the subsequent byproducts so that you don't poison your fish. Death is only one possibility...at minimum you are causing unecessary stress.

Keep your comments on topic...that is your last warning. If you want to discuss your noncycling philosophy, start another topic and quit derailing this one.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

i am very concerned with causing stress or doing anything that could stunt growth. I am worried about where have been the juvis i'm looking to buy, very. i want to begin right and do it right.


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

odyssey said:


> how is this the coolest question ever?


i think he was jokin man,,,at least i hope lol


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

yourockit said:


> You should do water checks on a regular basis regardless of whether your tank is cycling or already cycled. I do mine two times a week.


what should i buy for that?
[/quote]


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## fiveo93 (Jan 19, 2004)

ChilDawg said:


> I know; I love the fact that Bio-Spira is in our hobby. I was skeptical at first, but as long as it's kept refrigerated every step of the way, it's been good to the hobbyists I know who've used it.










IMO its some good stuff, i have used it on all of my tanks


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

Dizzy Dawg said:


> I know; I love the fact that Bio-Spira is in our hobby. I was skeptical at first, but as long as it's kept refrigerated every step of the way, it's been good to the hobbyists I know who've used it.










IMO its some good stuff, i have used it on all of my tanks
[/quote]

Used it on all your tanks? Once my first tank was cycled I never needed to cycle another tank again, next time just throw an established filter on a new tank. I've done this more times than I can count, and sure I may have had very mini cycles here and there, it has never affected the fish to the point where I could tell....


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## boostinger (Feb 6, 2007)

ChilDawg said:


> How large were they and how long have you kept them alive?


about an inch and i have had for a year now


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## fiveo93 (Jan 19, 2004)

Aaronic said:


> Used it on all your tanks?


yes, everyone of them. i didnt have other established tanks that i could have leech off of. you must have taken it as me having a couple tanks up and running all at the same time.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

To answer your original question I would not add any more than a dozen feeders. You would be better off with pure clear ammonia but thats just me. Without bio spira you can expect a cycle of 4-6 weeks. With bio spira 7-10 days give or take a few.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Dr. Giggles said:


> To answer your original question I would not add any more than a dozen feeders. You would be better off with pure clear ammonia but thats just me. Without bio spira you can expect a cycle of 4-6 weeks. With bio spira 7-10 days give or take a few.


Why a dozen? Please explain.


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## coreydyck (Dec 6, 2003)

boostinger said:


> You can't cycle a new tank/filter in 5 days...each type of bacteria needs time to establish itself based on the type of waste product available. This has been proven to taken at least 3-4 weeks to achieve a stable population of the 3 needed types of bacteria.
> 
> Now if you put mature substrate and/or especially mature filter media, then you could do it.


sorry to say this but that is bull sh*t i have 10 reds and i had them in a 55 when they were small about an inch and i found a great deal on a 125 so i bought it and filled it put the chlor out in and waited for about 30 to and hr and put the fish in i never cycled or anything and i have never lost a fish ever i now have 15 in there and the smallest one of the 10 i had in there from the start is 6-8 so cycling is bogas sorry to say but you dont need to and i have done that to every tank i do complete water changes to with 100% of water out i heat it up and throw them back in so you dont neet to cycle so there r my 2 cents
[/quote]

This is not bullshit. Perhaps you should reread the thread. I never said you couldn't toss piranhas in and cycle a tank with them in it...I said you can't cycle a tank in 5 days. Whether or not you cycle before adding p's wasn't the question. Stay on topic.

I personally would never cycle a new setup with valuable fish in it unless I did one or more of the following:
1) Added mature substrate
2) Used an established filter or at least established filter media
3) Heavily planted it

Childawg is right on as well...a bunch of tiny fish in a large tank won't cause a large enough ammonia or nitrite spike to seriously harm or kill them. Do that with a smaller tank or larger fish and you could cause irrepairable damage to your p's! Doing 100% water will help with nitrates, but if your filters aren't established, you will be causing mini-spikes of ammonia and nitrite.
[/quote]

the small tank this is bull sh*t to becase i started with a 10 gallon 10$ tank form walmart filled it and through them in i had 4 at the time i never cycled it and ya they are still here today
[/quote]

Obviously people are saying this is not good advice for the masses. I believe you did it and the fish survived but it's not the way to go.

You probably had a low PH which helps a lot. At a low PH the ammount of toxic un-ionized ammonia decreases as it relates to the total ammonia in your setup.


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

It sounds like seeding the tank with bio-spira is the way to go instead of waiting for air-born spores to establish then double until there is enough. I'm guessing it is from air-born spores unless the aliens are beaming them into the tank from the transporter room.


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## coreydyck (Dec 6, 2003)

shanker said:


> It sounds like seeding the tank with bio-spira is the way to go instead of waiting for air-born spores to establish then double until there is enough. I'm guessing it is from air-born spores unless the aliens are beaming them into the tank from the transporter room.


LOL, it's definitely the aliens, you didn't know that?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

yourockit said:


> To answer your original question I would not add any more than a dozen feeders. You would be better off with pure clear ammonia but thats just me. Without bio spira you can expect a cycle of 4-6 weeks. With bio spira 7-10 days give or take a few.


Why a dozen? Please explain.
[/quote]
I am going by the basis of a normally stocked tank. If you plan on overstocking than you should add more. In a normally stocked tank 6 feeders are enough to cycle a 50-55G tank, so I just doubled it for a 100G.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Dr. Giggles said:


> To answer your original question I would not add any more than a dozen feeders. You would be better off with pure clear ammonia but thats just me. Without bio spira you can expect a cycle of 4-6 weeks. With bio spira 7-10 days give or take a few.


Why a dozen? Please explain.
[/quote]
I am going by the basis of a normally stocked tank. If you plan on overstocking than you should add more. In a normally stocked tank 6 feeders are enough to cycle a 50-55G tank, so I just doubled it for a 100G.
[/quote]
Cool, I am going to employ this method of calculation in the future. Unless you believe that by stocking the tank, overstocking it perhaps, with say 100 feeders, I can quicking the cycling process which will include the use of biospira? But, on the other hand, now that I have a cycles tank there probably is no need to ever cycle another tank, am I right to think that I can always just use water from an already bacteria laden tank to slowly fill and develop another tank?


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

yourockit said:


> To answer your original question I would not add any more than a dozen feeders. You would be better off with pure clear ammonia but thats just me. Without bio spira you can expect a cycle of 4-6 weeks. With bio spira 7-10 days give or take a few.


Why a dozen? Please explain.
[/quote]
I am going by the basis of a normally stocked tank. If you plan on overstocking than you should add more. In a normally stocked tank 6 feeders are enough to cycle a 50-55G tank, so I just doubled it for a 100G.
[/quote]
Cool, I am going to employ this method of calculation in the future. *Unless you believe that by stocking the tank, overstocking it perhaps, with say 100 feeders, I can quicking the cycling process which will include the use of biospira?* But, on the other hand, now that I have a cycles tank there probably is no need to ever cycle another tank, *am I right to think that I can always just use water from an already bacteria laden tank to slowly fill and develop another tank?*
[/quote]

No...the problem is that overstocking won't decrease the amount of time needed to cycle, but increase the amount of bacteria needed to handle the increased waste. You could actually increase your cycling time by overstocking because your bacteria will be lagging behind the waste produced and the ammonia and nitrite will reach lethal levels much quicker. The only thing overstocking really does is increase the probability and number of dead feeders and bacterial blooms.

No again...the bulk of the bacteria is in the biomedia, substrate, decorations, etc... Your best bet is to transfer some of the biomedia from and old tank to a new tank, or plop a filter bag with biomedia or rocks into your established tank or filter to "seed" it for use later in another tank.


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