# Fluval 304 output above water better for 02



## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

OK, my situation is this.

When I put the tow fluval 304 outputs below the waters surface they are extremely quiet. Almost no sound comes from my tank at all. This is very pleasant when I have clients in and we are discussing things.

Well after the fluval 304 out puts have been under the surface for a while my Piranhas begin to look like they have to breathe alot, which I have been told is not a good sign. They also swim around the airstones looking like they are trying to fill thier gills up with the little bubbles and sometimes go to the surface where teh undergravel filter bubbles are and putthier gills in it.

SO, I put the fluval outputs above water and it is not much louder and I also think the sound is very pleasant but some of my co workers say it makes them space out. Well when I do put the outputs above water the P's begin to chill out and afetr like 20 minutes they look like they are not trying to breathe at all, which I heard is good.

I began to do some research on the web and I found out that oxygen has to be dissolved into the water for good breathable fish water. The best way to get that O2 in the water is surface disturbance.

I notice that my P's are most active when the fluval is above the surface. They are also not stressed and shoal really nicely. Now of course they sleepa nd are inactive off and on every hour and a half but thats been consistent for weeks.

I just notice that when I have had teh fluval outputs below water surface they pretty much rest all the time except for short stints when they begin to swim really nuts and do the water surface thing and fight over teh airstone bubbles.

Any thought on this topic would be appreciated.

---------------------------edit-------

Oh I forgot.

I have five P's that are 4-6" and they are in a 100 gal tank. Well its 60"Wx22"Hx16"D so I think thats a 100 gal.

and there are

2 x fluval 304's new.
4 x undergravel filters
2 x airstones that are 12' across sitting on either end of teh tank
1. bubble stone in the middle.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

when was the last time you cleaned under the UGF's??


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## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

when I set up the tank.

Here are a few more perameters.

I got the tank 3 weeks ago.

It was all setup for a few months before I purchased.

They guy said he needed the space for expected baby and crib.

So the gravel filters were running for about 3 months.

When I moved the tank I kept about 30% of the water taht was pulled out in bug buckets and left a little in the bottom. We pulled out the gravel and kept it in buckets as well. So When I set the tank up the undergravel filters were just stiing in the tank with a little bit of water over them. The water slightly dirty but still clear.

I then got the stand set up and put the tank on and put the gravel in. then put the 25% transported old water in. I than added teh rest of the water and started the fluval 303, which didn't really move alot of water due to broken motor blade (which I sent 303 and new motor to Kouma yesterday for his new breeding fishes)

anyways, I bought 2 new fluval 304 and hooked em up along with the the long airstones. I let this run for about 24 hours and then tested the water.

it was 0Ammonia- 0NitrItes- 10to20NitrAtes.

So I fugured it was good and then put the lava rock that had alot of the bacteria that was on it from the previuous setup.

about 6 hours later, almost 30 hours after setup I added teh goldfish and watched them. Then after all was well I added teh P's two hours later.

I will clean the undergravel filters if you recommend, but I do have a gravel vacumm I bought too. Is that sufficient. I always take food out after an hour.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Well I would see whats under those UGF"S first off.
You said they were in the tank already with some water on top of it ....
There could be no tellin gwhats under there ...I recommend u 86 those UGF"s they cause more problems with all the crap build up ..








Sounds like to me your tank did not fully cycle or you did not give adequate time upon introduction of your fish..
As far as why your fish are breathing heavy with the spout and syphon in the water is odd to me ...It supposed to help the situation..
but when its out they breath better...







I dont know ...Its puzzleing to me 
did any of the goldfish Die upon introduction??


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## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

Oh sorry Mr Harley I explained wrong.

What I meant was that the fish seem good if the fluval out spout is above the water's surface making a splash which sends little bubbles everywhere this makes the fish barely look like they have to breathe at all but I heard that is what I want since it takes little effort to breathe in water that has alot of dissovled oxygen.

If it is under the water's surface it doesn't splash at all and is quiet but it seems the fish get nuts and look like they have to breathe hard.

No fish have died in the tank yet, except those who were not fast enough to avoid getting turned into a Piranha Happy meal.









I know that the P's like to play in the bubbles some times But I read on a site that unless I have good surface water disturbance the breathable oxygen content in the water becomes minimal.

SO at the end of this story the fluvals are always in teh tank and running, it just makes a difference whether the fluval output spray is above or beloew the water surface.

But I just wanted to confirm this with someone here as to wether this is factual or a aqua urban myth?


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Noble said:


> Oh sorry Mr Harley I explained wrong.
> 
> What I meant was that the fish seem good if the fluval out spout is above the water's surface making a splash which sends little bubbles everywhere this makes the fish barely look like they have to breathe at all but I heard that is what I want since it takes little effort to breathe in water that has alot of dissovled oxygen.
> 
> ...


 I got ya.








I see you dont have any hang on filters...this could be the cause ..
with them they are creating that oxegyn and flow at the top of the tank...
I would suggest getting one, maybe an emperor 400 or 2 penguin 330's
for the biological filtration ..
also I would add an airline to the mix just to give them more than they need..
with only 2 fluvals you dont have anydistubace at the top ...


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## The Wave (Oct 22, 2003)

Hey Mr h,what about if he added a powerhead with a air tube to his set up


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

physco 1 said:


> Hey Mr h,what about if he added a powerhead with a air tube to his set up


That would be great, Thanks for reminding me







....But I dont think you need an airtube..
Just hang it off the top of the tank....thats what I do ..I got 4 in my 135


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## The Wave (Oct 22, 2003)

Thats how mine are also,air line to the powerhead to make bubbles nice,i have at least 2 on every tank and it works great.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

physco 1 said:


> Thats how mine are also,air line to the powerhead to make bubbles nice,i have at least 2 on every tank and it works great.


thats sounds great








you have them on the 10 gallon too...


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## The Wave (Oct 22, 2003)

No not on 10,







i have many tanks,guess i need to update my sig


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

physco 1 said:


> No not on 10,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 no worries







just yanking your chain...


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

what i do with my fluval is make it so it pushes the water up but not out so you can se the currents on the surrface. also what if you put a little slit in the air tubing. u know when a straw has a slit in it you get lots of air but a little of the drink. would that work with a canister filter. just leave it out and turn the temp down a bit. cool water holds more oxygen than warm water. i dont know i might be wrong


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> what i do with my fluval is make it so it pushes the water up but not out so you can se the currents on the surrface. also what if you put a little slit in the air tubing. u know when a straw has a slit in it you get lots of air but a little of the drink. would that work with a canister filter. just leave it out and turn the temp down a bit. cool water holds more oxygen than warm water. i dont know i might be wrong

















dont slit the air tubing ...dont you think that if fluval wanted it to function that way , they would have made it that way???


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

yeah true

i think i will right fluval a note saying that if people wanted to have an airline like a powerhead in there tank that they could buy an assecroy that would attacht to the fluval canister.


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## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

Oh ok, but as long as I leave the fluval outputs above the water level it should be ok?

here is the breakdown.


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## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

shot 2


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

Nice setup Nobel!!

I would suggest putting the output ports a little above the water so that they bring oxygen down with them.


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## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

Hey just PMed you, Thanks for the comments.

So you are saying it IS good to have surface disturbance for Oxuygen. OK thats what I wanted to know :-D


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