# could my black piranha have brain dammage?!?



## mikechilton (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok guy's here's all the info I've got, I hope someone can help me.
I've got a black piranha that I've had for 3 year's, since we moved him to the living room and he got used to the tank he's been very attentive to what is going on in the room, swiming up to the glass aggresivly when anyone gets close to it and otherwise a very active fish. I've had him in a 55gal tank for about a year, and we've hardly had any problems. 
So last saturday we fed him a peice of beef heart as we sometimes do and he ate it viciously as he usually does. Then later that day we saw him upside down at the bottom of the tank by the filter inlet like it was sucking him in. So totally freaked I grabed the net and tried to wright him and he just floated like he was dead, but his fins were moving and he was breathing. He then settled into the same spot that I found him. I turned off the light and left him thinking he was going to die, but later that day he wrighted himself and has been ever since. I took a water sample to petco to get it tested and they said everything was at good levels. 
Ever since this happened it almost looks like he forgot how to swim, ocasionally falling over, swimming erratically when he does try, but mostly just settled into the same spot on the bottom by the pump inlet. I've tried turning on the light and he freaks out almost instantly, swimming all over the place but like falling over and hitting the glass, almost struggling, its really weird. I put a couple of feeders in the other day and they were gone over night so he is eating, but something is definetly wrong with him. 
The tank did have a weird algie in the water, turned it green almost instantly after a water change but after some thorough cleaning, 80% water changes, a second filter and some accu-clear(two treatments to be exact), the stuff was gone. That was like 6 or 8 weeks ago that it went away and now this, I don't know if this would have anything to do with what happened, but he was fine untill last week. If anyone's seen this before or has got any advice I would appreciate it, thanks.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

i dont have a lot to say just a couple basics. We need the specific numbers from petco not just the water was ok. nitrates, nitrites and ammonia. also 80% water change is a lot and very stressful on fish. Also chemicals are not always the answer for problems. i am not familiar with accu-clear so i wont comment any further on that. Maybe the next person will be of more help. One last question. Did the fish start behaving like this after the 80% water change by after i mean with in a day?


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## mikechilton (Oct 6, 2008)

I agree that chemicals are not a good idea, but we tried everything and that did finally work. I'll get the specific numbers from them as soom as possible, But in the mean time, no we did those water changes like 2 or almost three months ago, and he was fine till last sat.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

blackpiranha4u said:


> I agree that chemicals are not a good idea, but we tried everything and that did finally work. I'll get the specific numbers from them as soom as possible, But in the mean time, no we did those water changes like 2 or almost three months ago, and he was fine till last sat.


WOAH...that was the last water change?
THats not helping it.


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## mikechilton (Oct 6, 2008)

Well i usually try to change the water every 2 to 4 weeks about 25% I use tap water with a water conditioner called aquasafe, which I've been using since I got the fish. I also add a top fin bacteria supplement. Thats all I have really had to do to keep him happy and the water clear. 
The ony reason I did those huge water changes is because of the algee in the water, it was wicked bad, we tried everything and it would not go away. The last regular water change was like a week before he started this nonsence, I'll try to post those parameters tomorrow.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

you need to do atleast a 30 percent water change a week. this may be your problem. but it could be this in combination with something else.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

algae can be a bitch! I have had an algae bloom once and I had to result to a chem....I haven't had one in the 5-6 years I've had a Mac.

Don't do such huge changes b/c that could create stress AND RE-cycle.
Also, the bacteria your using what is it for? You shouldn't need anything but something like Prime or a de-chlorinator in general when changing water.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2009)

*"Don't do such huge changes b/c that could create stress AND RE-cycle"*

I disagree with this statement. Large water changes will not cause a tank to re-cycle, the beneficial bacteria is in your filters not in your water. What are you using for filtration? How do you clean it? Regardless of if its a canister or HOB filter you should rinse the media or cartridges in the removed tank water. As it has been stated you should also do your water changes weekly and do not use live feeders such as minnows or goldfish as they have a growth inhibiting hormone and can bring disease to your tank. Instead, feed white fish such as Tilapia, smelts and shrimp.

Now onto your poor fish







Sounds to me like it could possibly be a swim bladder problem. There are many cause of swim bladder disease, one being over feeding and another being a bacterial infection. Usually with over feeding the problem rights itself after a few days of not feeding. So I guess my question is how much are you feeding him and how many times per day/week? If your fish has a bacterial infection then I would use some antibiotics to try and clear it up such as Kanacyn or Tetracycline.

I would see if the problem rights itself within a couple days of not feeding. If it still persists, then I would treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic.


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## mikechilton (Oct 6, 2008)

well I was going to go to the LFS tonight to get those params, but I doubt I'll make it so I'll get those as soon as possible. Now I was told that the good bacteria is in the rocks at the bottom of the tank. I've never heard of it in the filters, but I don't really know anything about fish care. I've used a carbon filter that came with the tank till I had the algae problem, then I added a RENA three stage filter with the bio wheels, I'm not sure but it seems to have helped. When I change the water I just throw away the old ones, rinse the new ones with tap water, then replace. It seems to have worked since I got the fish.
I know this cannot be the result of over feeding, if anything I under feed him. usually I'll get him some mollies, or some other fish, but his feeding schedual is not a schedual at all. I will get him a few fish and keep them in a seperate tank, give him two or three every few days till there gone, then it could be two weeks or more before I will get more. If inbetween trips to the store I notice him acting hungry I'll give him a peice of frozen beef heart or raw meat that we might be having for dinner. I read that feeders can carry dissese so I never gave him any till last week, after this happened I asked the girl at pets mart what I can do and she suggested to give him some feeders to try to perk him up. Since I already told her it was a piranha I couldn't get anything else, so I did give them to him, but it wasn't without hesitation.
so that leads me to my questions, how do I know if it is a bacterial infection, could medicating hurt him further if thats not it, and how often should I change the filters? Are they suposed to be green or is that bad, what do you mean by rinse in old water, do you mean the new ones or do you rinse the same ones weekly with water changes, like I said I know very little about this. 
Thanks guys for all the info!!


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

well almost all of your beneficial bacteria is in your filter media not in your gravel. some is in the gravel but not as much. you could rinse your filter media with tank water once every month to 3 months. but you should never need to replace the media unless it is really beyond rinsing. just make sure when you rinse the media you use tank water and not tap water.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2009)

Fish keeping basics:

1) Weekly water changes of 30-50%, this also includes using a gravel vac to remove waste and debris from gravel.

2) Filter media (existing) should be rinsed weekly in old removed water from tank. By rinsing it in fresh tap water you will kill off the beneficial bacteria which might cause your tank to constantly go through mini cycles. If you are using a HOB such as a Biowheel you should never have to replace the actual wheels unless they become torn. If that does happen then you replace one wheel one week and the other wheel couple of weeks later. As for the filter cartridges, again you rinse them in old tank water and can replace them when they start looking tattered. Never replace the wheel and the cartridge at the same time! If your Biowheel holds 2 cartridges or more, again replace one one week and the other a couple of weeks later. This will ensure that there is enough bacteria in the filter at all times.

3) Keep temperature between 78-82 degrees

4) Stop feeding your piranha live foods. It really isnt nessessary. Go look in the food nutrition section and read all you can







Start by offering him tilapia and shrimp. Beef heart is not appropriate, piranhas should only eat other fish. Feed him a small chunk every other day or so. At least feed him once every 3 days.

5) ***NOW THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT*** NEVER, EVER listen to the advice from ppl at your LFS!!! They are usually morons working for minimum wage and dont have a freakin clue what they are talking about.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

I worked at a fish store for a year back in high school and I enlighted hundreds of people who ALWAYS looked at me and said "oh" or scratch their heads and begin the next line with, "so this is why...."

In regards to your thread title, yes, anything with a brain can be at risk of getting brain damage.


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## mikechilton (Oct 6, 2008)

ok so I finally got a master test kit and here's the parameters, amonia-0/.25ppm, nitrate looks like between 5-10ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, the ph is sky high 7.8-8.0, how do i get it down. I have started a cycle of tetracycline but nothings changed yet im not sure how long it takes to see anything.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

i dont think you needed to start the tetracycline for this and your ammonia reading raises a question. you should have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. your nitrate reading is fine try to keep it below 20. I think the reason you have some ammonia is because you might of killed off some of the beneficial bacteria. keep a eye on it and test in a couple days again and repost results.


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

updates???


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