# Will plants grow under 2x40w compacts?



## Guest (Dec 26, 2005)

Well, the question is in the title. If so, what will grow in there? I love the actinic, so I dont want to change it.

Also, any fish ideas?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

i have no personal experience with actinic bulbs and plants.. but i have heard it isn't too good.
2x40w pc over a 10g is 8wpg. i have 36w 6700k pc over my 10g and i can grow all high light plants.
with that lighting, you will have issues balancing out the tank. go with 1 40w (minus actinic bulb)and it will be better.
also, with 4wpg, you will need CO2
fish ideas: ottocinclus cats, amano shrimp, cherry shrimp, and apistos


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2005)

I was thinking a pair of Blue Rams, and some Neons. They would look badass in the actinics









How do I control algae? I can imagine it will be EVERYWHERE.

BTW, Im thinkin about setting this up with no filter...I was hoping no c02 either...maybe I need to to some more research?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I like the idea of rams and neons! I had a tank like that b4, and it was great looking.
Any planted tank will deal with algea at least for a spell in the beginning. The tank has to balance out between light, plant mass, fertilization, and CO2. I would start out with a lot of plants. That is how I always do it now. works better for me
If you go no CO2 that is fine. Just keep the lighting at or below 2.5 wpg-- 1.5-2wpg optimum for no CO2. I would use a filter simply to blow around nutrients in the tank. If you don't want a filter, try a very small powerhead w/a pre filter or something.
read this it should help u with your low tech approach.. BTW, I am trying this right now for myself


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2005)

Why 2.5wpg without co2? What will happen if I dont? (Im new to freshwater plants).


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Why 2.5wpg without co2? What will happen if I dont? (Im new to freshwater plants).


2.5 is the highest light without CO2 enrichment. If you don't do it, You will have algea like you wouldn't believe








Try it, it would be a cool experiment. The pH will go very high, and plants limiting factor will be no CO2 present.. so the plants health will suffer


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Why 2.5wpg without co2? What will happen if I dont? (Im new to freshwater plants).


2.5 is the highest light without CO2 enrichment. If you don't do it, You will have algea like you wouldn't believe








Try it, it would be a cool experiment. The pH will go very high, and plants limiting factor will be no CO2 present.. so the plants health will suffer
[/quote]

Well I dont want to lower my wattages, I want to use the full capability of my lights.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2005)

Also, I have some sand from an old marine tank...useable?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Also, I have some sand from an old marine tank...useable?


might contain buffers. So chances are, prob not useable.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2005)

Ex0dus said:


> Also, I have some sand from an old marine tank...useable?


might contain buffers. So chances are, prob not useable.
[/quote]

Thats what I thought. Any ideas on a good sub? Onyx any good? Flourite maybe?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Why 2.5wpg without co2? What will happen if I dont? (Im new to freshwater plants).


2.5 is the highest light without CO2 enrichment. If you don't do it, You will have algea like you wouldn't believe








Try it, it would be a cool experiment. The pH will go very high, and plants limiting factor will be no CO2 present.. so the plants health will suffer
[/quote]

Well I dont want to lower my wattages, I want to use the full capability of my lights.
[/quote]
I really hope you don't go 8wpg. If you do, post progress in here. I for one would love to see how good/bad it does.. lol
Without CO2, and 80 watts of light over a 10g, I can almost guarantee a silly, silly algea farm. Even with CO2 it would be hard to control.. 
Again, please post pictures of this.. I wish you the best


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

Hey, say I put these lights over a 20g, could I still have it heavily planted? Would I still need a C02 bottle? How much are they?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Hey, say I put these lights over a 20g, could I still have it heavily planted? Would I still need a C02 bottle? How much are they?


Go with a 40 or 55g tank and you will be fine. The cylanders vary in price. I found 20lb cylanders for $30 used. Ppl pay 80$ sometimes for a 5lb new bottle. Call your local welding supply shop and ask if they are selling used ones.
That price hardly ever comes around. Regulators you can buy on ebay for 70-80$


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

Do DIY Co2 things work?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Do DIY Co2 things work?


yes, they work, but definately not as good as pressurized, and they tend to be a pain in the neck. You will get sick of mixing batches of it in a few weeks, most likely


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

Im already sick of it just from reading about it









But I dont want to drop another $200 on co2


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

just go low light







1.5-2wpg and you won't have to worry about CO2


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> just go low light
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Low light = less attrative plants


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

?? looks good to me


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

Co2? Lights? Specs please


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Co2? Lights? Specs please


This is my bathroom *'non-CO2' *75g tank







It will be the home of my Sanchezi this weekend..heeehee.

It has 2-2x40w T12 shop lights on it. (160w--2.1wpg)

I dose micro nutrients, phosphate, and nitrate (if needed) on a weekly basis.

It has a Rena XP2, and an AC30 powerhead w/filter attachment. 300w heater.

Plants are: Java fern, Cryptocoryne wendtii, Cryptocoryne walkeri, Echinoderus tenellus, giant Hygrophila, Hygrophila angustafolia, Nymphaea sp. 'Taiwan,' Bacopa caroliniana, water sprite, and hornwart. --Oh yeah, the plant that is floating is duckweed


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

I heart you Dippy!


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2005)

BTW, are plants safe during the cycle?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> BTW, are plants safe during the cycle?


thanks for the love, dannyboy









The plants will do great during the cycle. they eat ammonia!! lol no problemo


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2005)

Well Dips, after doing some reading Ive decided Co2 will be a must. I might just leave the daytime bulb on during the daytime hours, and the actinics right before bed, less wattage.

Anyways, heres the co2 model I will probably follow. Is this dont correctly? So should I just put the tube into the filter intake like he says? I remember my ex had a huge spike in ph one night, I think its because her co2 didnt diffuse.

Would buying one of those "Bubble Counters be worth it?" Would it diffuse the co2 better than putting the tube in the intake?

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product...2873&pcid1=3349

Lots of questions


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Well Dips, after doing some reading Ive decided Co2 will be a must. I might just leave the daytime bulb on during the daytime hours, and the actinics right before bed, less wattage.
> 
> Anyways, heres the co2 model I will probably follow. Is this dont correctly? So should I just put the tube into the filter intake like he says? I remember my ex had a huge spike in ph one night, I think its because her co2 didnt diffuse.
> 
> ...


I really like to be a help







(Hoping this helps lol)

I don't see any CO2 model, except the big als thinggy. I have no experience with that product, but it looks ok, if you want to go that route.
what sort of filter do you have? 
ya if the CO2 runs out, a pH spike is what follows.. that is why DIY is unreliable as compared to pressurized. 
A bubble counter is really used so you can see/set the amount of CO2 that you are pumping into your tank. They are used on pressurized setups. My Milwaukee CO2 regulator has a bubble counter built into it. I doubt u need it going DIY.. Just be sure to use a check valve to stop backflow from your tank from going into your reactor.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11687 Sorry theres the link.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

yep that is a bonified DIY CO2 reactor lol

it will work


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

I made it! And the yeast culture is goin! But I havent hooked it to the tank yet, because I dont have a hardness test kit. My pH is around 7.0 tho...hmmm to wait or not to wait?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> I made it! And the yeast culture is goin! But I havent hooked it to the tank yet, because I dont have a hardness test kit. My pH is around 7.0 tho...hmmm to wait or not to wait?


not to wait lol dont worry, the amount of CO2 that a DIY reactor makes is not going to be too much EVER..lol 
in fact it is usually the opposite


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

So I should hook it up?

BTW, I noticed my Water Wisteria, with is about an inch over the sand bed (still as iron weights), the roots are going straight down into the sand bed. Should I give it more time before removing the weights? Im guessing this is a good sign, that the roots are like that?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hook it up, no problem asap.

nothing wrong with using weights, unless you have more than 1 stem on it. If you have a bunch of plants on 1 weight, the bottoms will rot out because they can't get light


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

Ya they are bunched, Im goin to go take off the weights.

Cheers!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

I hooked up the co2...but I ave no way of knowing if its working...no bubbles or anything.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> I hooked up the co2...but I ave no way of knowing if its working...no bubbles or anything.


you can tell if it is working by looking at your reactor. There should be bubbles (fizz) comming up, kind of like a pepsi bottle.
If there are no bubbles, chances are the reactor in't working.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

Hmm, well, there is definitely fizz. Lots of condensation aswell. And I tipped it upside down, no leaks. So it should be working then right?

P.S Dips your the man!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Hmm, well, there is definitely fizz. Lots of condensation aswell. And I tipped it upside down, no leaks. So it should be working then right?
> 
> P.S Dips your the man!


LOL I'm not the man!! LOL

Yes, if there is fizz, it is working.. you should have a checkvalve somewhere on the airline tube so back-flow doesn't go into your reactor, and/or that yucky mixture doesn't get into your tank.

Every few seconds or so, give or take a few, you should see a little spit of gas come out of the tube, if you have had it going a while. It takes some time to push through the tube.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

So like a bubble coming out of the tube? (when submerged)


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

ya, but the bubble needs chopped up by the power head impeller, or it will just float to the surface, and dissapate into the air.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

Well, I threaded the tube up through the intake of the filter. Problem is now, it looks like some water got in the tube, and now its just a seesaw battle between the co2 trying to push out and more water trying to get in. It definitely was working tho, I could see bubbles coming out.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

yep, that is a normal CO2 reactor.

Now in a few weeks you will find out why many of us switch over to either low light non-CO2, or bite the bullet and go full pressurized.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

So is it still working then? Co2 is still mixing with the water coming into the tube right? And eventually getting into the tank?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

well, the tube is comming from the bottle, and the bottle is sealed, and there is a checkvalve, right?

then what comes out of the tube is the CO2 that is being produced as a result of your sugar/yest solution that has nowhere to go but up that tube


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

^^Yep.

No checkvalve, but Im headin to Big Als in 10 mins to get my test kits for Co2, Iron and KH, maybe I'll pick one up if they have them there.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

you dont need a CO2 test kit.. it is an equasion from pH and KH readings, get those kits, u will be fine LOOK

Myeslf, I don't use many testkits, but rather eyeball the plants, notice any problem


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

How does that table work? If I am injecting Co2, does it raise my hardness? That chart should be pinned!

Dips youve been great









NM, I think I figured it out







The higher the KH, the more stable the water will be.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> How does that table work? If I am injecting Co2, does it raise my hardness? That chart should be pinned!
> 
> Dips youve been great
> 
> ...


Ya your water is able to keep pH from crashing in a higher KH, but too much is bad too.







anywhere from 3-8 or 9 should be ok for most plants.

2 of my tanks has a KH of about 3. it's low but fine. Some very sensitive plants absolutely love it. My other tank has a KH of about 5-6. I can't grow certain plants in it, but it is fine.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

Yikes, Ive got a KH of 6-7 and a pH of 7.4-7.6.

I also bought an iron supplement...and added about an inch to my gravel bed. Added a checkvalve, so no more back wash water. Do you think Im in good shape?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Yikes, Ive got a KH of 6-7 and a pH of 7.4-7.6.
> 
> I also bought an iron supplement...and added about an inch to my gravel bed. Added a checkvalve, so no more back wash water. Do you think Im in good shape?


stfu... i had a kh of 28









It took me buyuing a ro/di unit to lower my gh/kh to acceptable levels

Your kh is money.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

ya your KH is ok, I would be more concearned with getting the pH down to about 7.0, 6.8 optimum. That would mean your CO2 levels would be decent

That is a strictly CO2 issue.. maybe get another 2liter on the job


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

That would lower it right? Maybe next time I'll mix in more yeast.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

it should lower your pH, yes. If you put more yeast into the mix, it will eat the sugar faster, and crash out quicker. Just a heads up


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

Now all I need to do is find a place to buy a carpet plants







Which right now seems IMPOSSIBLE! You guys are lucky in the states, there are no online reatilers in Canada.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Now all I need to do is find a place to buy a carpet plants
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Danny, there are some sellers on aquabid.com that sell strictly to Canada. There are some Canadian members on aquaticplantcentral.com too that you might be able to get some cool plants off of. 
If I wasn't still in my start up stage, I would try and send you some plants.. I know better than label the package 'live plants' now.... they will never make it... I would try 'gift' lol
I tried to send spree rider some plants a while back labeled live plants.. he never even got them..


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Now all I need to do is find a place to buy a carpet plants
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Danny, there are some sellers on aquabid.com that sell strictly to Canada. There are some Canadian members on aquaticplantcentral.com too that you might be able to get some cool plants off of. 
If I wasn't still in my start up stage, I would try and send you some plants.. I know better than label the package 'live plants' now.... they will never make it... I would try 'gift' lol
I tried to send spree rider some plants a while back labeled live plants.. he never even got them..








[/quote]

Thanks









Well maybe sometime after weve both got our tanks rolling, we could try an exchange!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

^^I don't take algea infested plants Danny
















Just jokin' danny! I have faith that you will do just fine


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> ^^I don't take algea infested plants Danny
> 
> 
> 
> ...










80w too much for ya?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> ^^I don't take algea infested plants Danny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: 80w too much for ya?








[/quote]







I'm telling you, if you go 80 watts over a 10g, your pH will never come down lol 
there will never be enough CO2 in there.. But, try it, and you will learn!! lol
I killed my share of plants.. your turn i guess


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

Wait, no co2?

What about ifI only had them overlap for like 30 mins a day...then the daylight will turn off and the actinics will make it seem like its evening







I have like a 4w moonlight too :laugh:


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

well, 4wpg is high too for DIY CO2, but a lot better than 8!! LOL
You have to try it, I have no experience with that, it might work! You seem outgoing, give it a whirl!
You just may suprise me!

oh and get some pics up!


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

You just wait, Im already getting mad growth :laugh:

Although Im starting to dislike my Hygro Difformis. The leafs are darkening in the centers...but lots of new leaves are growing at the top so Im guessing all is good. The roots grounded themselves REAL quick.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)




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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

Unfortunately, I need to buy a cable to go from my cam to the computer









BTW, Ive firugred out the name of my mystery plant:

Glossotigma! I love it, I hope I can figure out a way to get it to carpet my tank


















^My goal for the front and sides of my tank









That means my current plant stock is:

Rose Sword (Echino..durus? Told you I suck with scientific names







)
Hygro Difformis
Glossotigma

80w/g - 10 hours a day
8KH - 7.4 ph
80 dF

Pics will come sometime this week.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

i just got rid of tons of glosso.. it's in my garbage can! lol

Sounds like it will be a great tank if you get it going good! I like the inspirational pic.. hopefully yours will turn out as good!


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

Whyd you toss it? dying? Not enough light







Just playin of course! (I will be crying when the algae catches up).

Do you know much about Glosso? From what Ive read is to carpet, you have to by huge clumps of it and manually plant them. I dont mind maunally planting each sprout, but I was atleast hoping it would reproduce and spread by itself.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hope this helps... MAKE SURE YOU PLANT IT DENSLY FROM THE START LOL
If you can't cover much ground with it, bunch it up, and get some throw away plants in there until it starts speading.

I tossed mine because I didnt plant it dense enough from the start.. It was spreading everywhere, kind of a nuisance. but it had some hair algea under it, and I really didnt like it that much. 
I trimmed my 10g with Elatine in it, had a bunch of that, and I like it better, so I thought why play with it... just chuck it and put the cooler looking, healthier plant in









Oh yeah, cut the runners so that you have 2 sets of leaves and roots. Then carefully plant the runners n roots under the gravel, leave the spoon shaped leaves, and some stem


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

Right now, its just a large clump, with the roots burried under the sub. I think these plants love iron so Im happy I bought that. Tommorow I think I'll take a stab at spreading it out just a bit so that they can all grow new leaves. Im goin to check out Elatine


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Yes, they love CO2, light, iron especially. If there is not enough iron, as with elatine, the plant will tell you because it will turn pale.

don't place in the shade.







keep it mostly in direct light


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

I was wondering, Im thinking about picking up another fertilizer next time Im at Big Als, the Seachem "Trace Elements" one caught my eye, it had some goodies for ingredients. There was also a Carbon one, and a General Supplement one. Which do you think could help my tank the most?

Here's what I got:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...3141&pcid1=3349

Here's what Im thinkin about getting:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...3141&pcid1=3349
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...3141&pcid1=3349
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...3141&pcid1=3349

or the "Trace Elements" Seachem product.

Do you reccomend any of those?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I've heard great things about the TMG, I would get that.. oh and with diy CO2, the excell is a good choice


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

*PMDD Fertilizer (contains Fe, B, Mn, Mo, Zn, Cu EDTA, DTPA, K, S, and Mg)
500ml (1ml eyedropper included)
$6.00*

I might go with that too ^^


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2006)

Here comes the algae







Brown algae. I bought an algaecide, safe for plants. Should I use it? I also just hooked up another Co2 bottle.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Here comes the algae
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would not use it. Up the CO2, check nitrates and phosphates. make sure they are in optimum levels.. 
Algea always happens with a new tank, don't panic. Just make some adjustments, and do the maintenance.. (in other words.. remove it )


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