# Is Ms_Natt a Goth?



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

well one reason Ns_Nattereri doesn't show her picture to the PFury community _could_ be that she is a goth - what do you think?


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## 14_blast (Oct 6, 2003)

I'm sorry Queenie...but I think people working at the Great Mall are Goths...


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

for those who dont know what a goth is, here is an example picture


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

heres another example pic


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## The Wave (Oct 22, 2003)

she could be a man for all we know lol


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## KingKong (Nov 3, 2003)

I don't think she is... If she was a goth she would have like a pentagon as a signature or something resembling something dark like satan. I think she's a hot prep... Who has a crush on me.


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## here phishiie phishiie (Oct 7, 2003)

I'm goth, and im not satanic.....im wiccan


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

here phishiie phishiie said:


> I'm goth, and im not satanic.....im wiccan


 pic?


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## «PïRåñHªß¥të» (May 5, 2003)

i think the real question we need to ask is does she make house calls?? flat-rate or buy-the-hour?


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

«PïRåñHªß¥të» said:


> i think the real question we need to ask is does she make house calls??


 next weeks poll


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## here phishiie phishiie (Oct 7, 2003)

not really goth in this pic but...


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## The Wave (Oct 22, 2003)

Innes said:


> «PïRåñHªß¥të» said:
> 
> 
> > i think the real question we need to ask is does she make house calls??
> ...


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Jeeze guys, you can be a goth and not look idiotic like those people. Those are glam goths, aka Hot Topic goths, not real goths. I would consider myself a real goth...ya know, wearing darker colors (red and black), black hair, classic look, but no stupid white makeup.

Oh, and Pentagrams aren't always associated with Satan worship. Hollywood did a good job of making it look that way, but it's usually wrong. I'm a follower of the Old Religion and I wear a Pentagram around my neck every day, but I'm certainly not a Satanist.


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## «PïRåñHªß¥të» (May 5, 2003)

on playboy tv they would show how these goth people would get naked in a forest and have a shagging orgy

pentagrams, candles, and dark lacy clothing, damn kinky


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

dracofish said:


> Jeeze guys, you can be a goth and not look idiotic like those people. Those are glam goths, aka Hot Topic goths, not real goths. I would consider myself a real goth...ya know, wearing darker colors (red and black), black hair, classic look, but no stupid white makeup.
> 
> Oh, and Pentagrams aren't always associated with Satan worship. Hollywood did a good job of making it look that way, but it's usually wrong. I'm a follower of the Old Religion and I wear a Pentagram around my neck every day, but I'm certainly not a Satanist.


 hehehehe sorry to offend draco, I'm just mocking Karen, and the style you have is not mockable enough


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Black Bullet on the other hand.... lol


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

This is what I would consider as real Gothic:


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Naw Karen is not goth! I have seen pics of her, and talk to her all the time. You guys are too funny!


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

Innes said:


> Innes said:
> 
> 
> > hehehehe sorry to offend draco, I'm just mocking Karen, and the style you have is not mockable enough


 so she is GOTH! hehe


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

sorry but i have never seen her with her clothes on so i dont know :bleh:

whos the hot chick in the pic Draco


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

all real goths wear west coast choppers tshirts


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i got the wcc shirt and i aint goth biker if any thing

i think those people that are the hot topic goths are weird like dracofish says

leave the makup to the clowns


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Xenon said:


> all real goths wear west coast choppers tshirts


You won't catch a WCC shirt on this Goth...









OCC roxors!!!


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## pamonster (Jun 26, 2003)

yes, she must be


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## vanz (Sep 11, 2003)

dracofish said:


> This is what I would consider as real Gothic:


 why is that considered goth? Looks normal to me. So are you saying anyone who dyes their hair pitch black with/without red streaks are considered real goths?


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## rUBY84 (Jan 8, 2004)

dracofish said:


> Jeeze guys, you can be a goth and not look idiotic like those people. Those are glam goths, aka Hot Topic goths, not real goths. I would consider myself a real goth...ya know, wearing darker colors (red and black), black hair, classic look, but no stupid white makeup.
> 
> Oh, and Pentagrams aren't always associated with Satan worship. Hollywood did a good job of making it look that way, but it's usually wrong. I'm a follower of the Old Religion and I wear a Pentagram around my neck every day, but I'm certainly not a Satanist.










I hear that! People have the stupidest misconceptions about goths... wiccans... and whatever else they find "different". And lets not get me started on the role the church played in all this... I wouldnt consider myself a wiccan, I've been reading info about it since I was 13... I have books and all kinds of stuff. So incredibly interesting... not the spells and stuff, I dont believe in all that... but the ideas behind it.... It makes so much sense to me.
Who cares if ms_natt is a "goth" ... we're all here for the fish! lol!


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## black_bullet (Jul 10, 2003)

You can shop at hottopic...and still be a "real" goth. Its not so much how one dresses....its more of what one believes that makes somebody a "real" goth. Hell you can shop at wallyworld and be a real goth more thatn if all you ever bought were replicas from the gothic era. Everyone has their own way of presenting themself...if they choose to wear white face paint and run around with fake blood all over them...thats fine by me as long as the beliefs are true it doesnt matter how they dress.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

Hey....if you shop at Wallyworld for any reason whatsoever you are at LEAST 2% *******


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

black_bullet said:


> You can shop at hottopic...and still be a "real" goth. Its not so much how one dresses....its more of what one believes that makes somebody a "real" goth. Hell you can shop at wallyworld and be a real goth more thatn if all you ever bought were replicas from the gothic era. Everyone has their own way of presenting themself...if they choose to wear white face paint and run around with fake blood all over them...thats fine by me as long as the beliefs are true it doesnt matter how they dress.:rock:


Sorry, I just find it hilarious when I see little teeny bops dyeing their hair pink and putting it in pig tails and wearing sparkled blue eye shadow with My Little Pony t-shirst shopping at Hot Topic. Those are what I refer to as "Glam Goths" or "Hot Topic Goths." Maybe Hot Topic is different where you are, but that pretty much sums up the stores around here...

The reason why I find it so funny is that those are usually the people trying to look different to rebel against their parents or something else. When asked about their decisions or beliefs on anything, they don't have a clue. Those are also usually the people that may claim to be "Pagans," but also call themselves Satanists in the same breath. No clue, going by what Hollywood portrays, trying to be cool or different...more than likely just looking for attention...


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Okay I am considered goth I wear what I want more the darker colors yet I will wear lighter colors but my soul is goth I do not want to be a weirdass just following trends. I love punk music I can't get enough of vampires and likons and ghosts and that kind of stuff. You don't have to look goth like that in order to be goth you don't even have to have the black hair I do because that is what I was born with lol. It is really the way the person acts and is. Their likes and dislikes.
I am making sense to myself anyway hehehe :bleh: You don't have to believe in satan or wicca or any of that to be goth you can believe in jesus christ the savior and be goth.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Yeah, you guys have mis-conceptions on what Goth is. Check me out.. I can be goth, but you guys wouldn't know it. I might dress macho and stuff, but hey.. I might have a dark side.









And Karen is nowhere near being a Goth.. she's a Hill Billy.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

vanz said:


> why is that considered goth? Looks normal to me. So are you saying anyone who dyes their hair pitch black with/without red streaks are considered real goths?


Truly Gothic is more of a state of mind, IMO, but I think there's definately a difference between Glam Goth and Goth or Gothic. Glam Goths are the ones into sparkles and brightly colored pig tails, whereas "real" Goths are more subdued and not as "loud." I think most of what those Glams are looking for is attention. A good example is Marylin Manson. Classic Glam Goth...it's mostly all an act. Deep down inside, the man is a pure genious who decided to do an experiment on human nature and that's where he ended up. He's much more normal underneath all that makeup than is portrayed. With all that said, I don't even like his music! LOL. If you're truly Gothic at heart, you're not looking for attention.

I generally dress in dark clothing with lots of dark reds, etc. (not red streaked hair, don't know where you got that) with more of a classic look instead of trying to show every inch of skin possible. "Normal" to me is Abercrombie tees and pastels. I'm the exact opposite. If you consider sheer Motricia-sleeved shirts normal, then by all means, call me normal...


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## black_bullet (Jul 10, 2003)

Yeah....I know what ya mean, the teenage phase of finding ones self....or just trying to be anti what others want, without a clue what their beliefs really are in most cases. Id rather order online than go to the store...cuts out alot of the crap. Ive probably only sat foot in the HT store here like 20times total :laugh:

Everybody has a small margine of ******* in them, or they have a ******* wanting to be in them.....or they may even want a ******* in them


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Hahaha the only time I go to hot topic is to fine my not so normal shoes I love their boots they kick ass and people can make fun of me when I wear them and I can care less because I love my boots and they make me myself. Now all those highschoolers with all the makeup and wearing diff color converse total prep trend and preppies calling out and rebelling against their parents and peers. Yes they are attention getters. Goth is the state of mind. It is either your soul or you're a poser.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

hmmm guess this is a topic on what is goth and what isnt now.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Being gothic isnt my style. Sorry guys.


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## fury (Nov 30, 2003)

i vote for no


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Being gothic isnt my style. Sorry guys.


 sure?

your not the "hot topic" kind?









oh and hey BB aint seen you for a while


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

Hahaha funny post...


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2004)

dracofish said:


> I think most of what those Glams are looking for is attention. A good example is Marylin Manson. Classic Glam Goth...it's mostly all an act. Deep down inside, the man is a pure genious who decided to do an experiment on human nature and that's where he ended up. He's much more normal underneath all that makeup than is portrayed. With all that said, I don't even like his music! LOL. If you're truly Gothic at heart, you're not looking for attention.


Right. I've seen interviews with Marylin Manson and he is a pragmatic, calculating businessman. He should be carrying around a briefcase and wearing a suit.

I'm not Goth, but I hate to see all those fake Goth-wannabes. I've heard someone call them "mall-rats in black". They're just little attention-whores.

That being said. If Ms. Natt was Goth she would be constantly posting her pic. She wouldn't be the mystery woman we know today.


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## rbP NUT (Dec 2, 2003)

no, well at least i hope not, because it would spoil my fantasy :laugh:


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## Hoser98 (Dec 31, 2003)

Truly gothic is a state of mind, I call that state "I'm desperate for attention". Seriously people, once you get out of high school, you'll realize that this "image" you create for yourselfs means nothing, and if you don't look/act normal, you'll be working the local Waffle House for the rest of your lives.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off, or offend anyone. but life experience says that if you don't act like what the community deems normal, what you view as your "creativity" will only hurt you in the long run.

P.S. Pentagrams are not Satanic, upside down pentagrams are Satanic. I've done my share of research on Wicca, and associated things like Tarot and whatnot.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Hoser98 said:


> Truly gothic is a state of mind, I call that state "I'm desperate for attention". Seriously people, once you get out of high school, you'll realize that this "image" you create for yourselfs means nothing, and if you don't look/act normal, you'll be working the local Waffle House for the rest of your lives.
> I'm not trying to piss anyone off, or offend anyone. but life experience says that if you don't act like what the community deems normal, what you view as your "creativity" will only hurt you in the long run.
> 
> P.S. Pentagrams are not Satanic, upside down pentagrams are Satanic. I've done my share of research on Wicca, and associated things like Tarot and whatnot.


Well, if you have done your "homework," then you'd also know that being a follower of the Old Religion often goes hand in hand with not dressing and acting the norm. Some people take it to extremes where you have Hollywood portraying them and making them look bad. Other people, like me, simply choose not to look like "Abercrombie" people and are perfectly contect to stay on the outskirts of society. I've never been a crowd person and probably never will.

As far as flipping burgers for the rest of your life if you don't "look the part," that's not always true. I have a closet full of evening gowns and nice clothes for formal and semi-formal affairs. I know that there's a time and place for everything, but deep down inside, that's not me. I far prefer wearing my black lace, velvet, and OCC t-shirts. Unfortunately, I only get to do that on the weekends. Perhaps that's why my coworkers always look surprised when they see me in my "street clothes."

And what you call "Truly Gothic" as being attention seekers, I call "Glam Goth." True Goths aren't looking for attention at all. More often, they hate people and are just being who they are...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

dracofish said:


> More often, they hate people


 aint that a sunny outlook on life. I do find it funny though that you dig into people for their hatreds and misconceptions, then just chalk yourself up to hating all people.....like that is more acceptable
















Please explain.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

I don't hate everyone, I just hate a lot of what society stands for, but that's another discussion entirely. Usually people that find the need to dress "darkly," have problems with people, in one way or another. I personally can't stand the fact that society awards and applauds being a "cookie cutter" person. Maybe it's just the area I'm from, but every day I walk around or go to work and see people without souls. They live for appearances and credit cards. It makes me sad in one instance, and angry in another when those people look down on me for not being like them. Now, before anyone goes and says that I'm jealous, I'm far from it. I'd rather die than lose myself into falling into conformity.

Also, tell me where I said I hate all people. If that were true, I wouldn't be in a loving relationship and I wouldn't have a close knit group of friends. I just have problems with the majority of people, mostly because they have problems with me, whether it be my religious views or the way I act and look. I never said I wasn't cynical, and I never said I didn't like making witty comments, but usually the people I deal with on a daily basis don't like wit, so they get upset. They also make the assumption that I'm a Satanist because I wear a Pentagram and dress in dark clothes. Those are the people I have problems with...mostly because they are ignorant and are too blind or unwilling to see the truth.


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Going along with some peoples statement I am far from normal, I am always getting called weird because my thought process is random and just things I like Vampires rock







that would be cool if we had a soccer team called the Likons, wherewolfs are named after King Likon


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

that my friends is a funny ass picture...


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

RhomZilla said:


> And Karen is nowhere near being a Goth.. she's a Hill Billy.


 I still stand with this statement.. :bleh:


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

RhomZilla said:


> RhomZilla said:
> 
> 
> > And Karen is nowhere near being a Goth.. she's a Hill Billy.
> ...


 You see my true colors indeed!


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> RhomZilla said:
> 
> 
> > RhomZilla said:
> ...


 Denim blue?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Innes said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > RhomZilla said:
> ...


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

i just hate the government, a lot of people (not you guys), i kinda hate what our world and people have become

i also hate polictics, buisness, and rules








all of the above


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> i just hate the government, a lot of people (not you guys), i kinda hate what our world and people have become
> 
> i also hate polictics, buisness, and rules
> 
> ...


 That was random


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> sweet lu said:
> 
> 
> > i just hate the government, a lot of people (not you guys), i kinda hate what our world and people have become
> ...












well we were talking about hateing things


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## NatenSarah (Sep 14, 2003)

curiously enough,
computers come from businesses and yet you use one, 
and the internet that allows you to research and dig into so much knowledge, is a product of politics, government and most specifically- military creation.

so speak your mind as freely as you'd ever, but please realize that to truly back up those statements means to become a hermit, denounce all things mechanical and electrical, and go back to hunting and gathering.

although much harm has been done in the blind pursuit of what men call "progress" you cannot forget the good.

we have been blessed with knowledge, tools, and triumphs, and although we may be killing the source of it all, namely the earth, in the process- you must remember that the only thing that lasts forever is change...

$0.02

--n8


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## vtecbro007 (Feb 11, 2004)

f*ck goths man stupid ppl


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## t_h_e_s_a_c_k (Nov 16, 2003)

f*ck the police!


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

f*ck THE PIRANHA PEOPLE! THEY KEEP EATING MY SHORTS!


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

No0dLeMicE said:


> f*ck THE PIRANHA PEOPLE! THEY KEEP EATING MY SHORTS!










Im lost









So how does this all relate to being gothic?!?

/derail


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)




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## Guest (Mar 4, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> No0dLeMicE said:
> 
> 
> > f*ck THE PIRANHA PEOPLE! THEY KEEP EATING MY SHORTS!
> ...


 read, read and read before posting









Ms_Nat, are you really a goth or not?

can you post some pic?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

snowcon4u said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > No0dLeMicE said:
> ...


 Perhaps you should take your advice









As stated twice or so before in this thread--Im not a goth. Its not my style.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

I don't think Ms_Natt is a goth at all.

I think she's a homicidal maniac on the lam from the show "Cops" and won't post her pic for fear of someone having seen that episode....

Her count

125 Chickens
37 cows
41 sheep
3 humans

Those chickens and cows couldve lived and been on my table!!!


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> snowcon4u said:
> 
> 
> > Ms_Nattereri said:
> ...


 ok fine! whatever. don't take it seriously :rasp:


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

Im the anti goth. I wear hollister, abercrombie clothes etc. I think a negative outlook on life is pointless and wallowing in your self pity will get you nowhere..


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

is evanescence goth? there's a girl in my school like the singer but the girl is actually hot


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

vtecbro007 said:


> f*ck goths man stupid ppl


 Right back at ya...


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

InIndiana said:


> Im the anti goth. I wear hollister, abercrombie clothes etc. I think a negative outlook on life is pointless and wallowing in your self pity will get you nowhere..


 I'm not wallowing in my own self pity. I used to, and that almost killed me...literally. Now I'm learning to love myself. That love just isn't in the form that most people take.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

boxer said:


> is evanescence goth? there's a girl in my school like the singer but the girl is actually hot


 I would say that Evanescence is goth...and I think she's gorgeous...


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Hoser98 said:


> Truly gothic is a state of mind, I call that state "I'm desperate for attention". Seriously people, once you get out of high school, you'll realize that this "image" you create for yourselfs means nothing, and if you don't look/act normal, you'll be working the local Waffle House for the rest of your lives.
> I'm not trying to piss anyone off, or offend anyone. but life experience says that if you don't act like what the community deems normal, what you view as your "creativity" will only hurt you in the long run.
> 
> P.S. Pentagrams are not Satanic, upside down pentagrams are Satanic. I've done my share of research on Wicca, and associated things like Tarot and whatnot.


 i totaly agree..... i cannot agree with this statment more.
















wish i had good english and grammer skillz.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Evanescence is very hot... indeed........

**SHAWING!*


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

InIndiana said:


> Im the anti goth. I wear hollister, abercrombie clothes etc. I think a negative outlook on life is pointless and wallowing in your self pity will get you nowhere..


 and yet you steal my avater









damit crazyklown, its 4 humans and 124 chikens, get your facts straigt


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## black_bullet (Jul 10, 2003)

Being clinically depressed isnt gothic, the people that hate absolutly everyone and hate themselves...are clinically depressed, now they may claim to be goth...they really arnt. Being gothic is more like having a strong spiritual side....and being against mainstream society for its derogatory and belittiling impact on people. I have a much better job that alot of my non goth friends...so, we will never suceede past a buger king eh? Everyone evolves alot of their beliefs and views during the highschool age so you carry those same beliefs with ya but they mature. Hell I know I used to look like the chick version of manson when i was like 15...altho id like to think that ive atleast tonned that down quite a bit now. I have great respect for anyone that is being true to themselves in every way possible...if thats wearing ambercrombie and riding around in a rice rocket...thats fine.

Im always around Innes....I just lurk


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

black_bullet said:


> Being clinically depressed isnt gothic, the people that hate absolutly everyone and hate themselves...are clinically depressed, now they may claim to be goth...they really arnt. Being gothic is more like having a strong spiritual side....and being against mainstream society for its derogatory and belittiling impact on people.


 Exactly...


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

are we still on this?


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

dracofish said:


> I would say that Evanescence is goth...and I think she's gorgeous...


 I think she's gorgeous too, but i always thought she was one of those evangelist......

Oh, one last thing.....teenagers of today suck! No goal in life, they just follow in everyone elses footsteps, styles, thoughts.....

DAMN YOU HOLLYWOOD!
DAMN YOU MTV!
DAMN YOU FOX TV!


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

USMC*sPiKeY* said:


> I think she's gorgeous too, but i always thought she was one of those evangelist......


 I've heard that she claims to be a Christian, but I have a hard time believing that when you look at some of her lyrics. Either way, her music means a lot to me, so I guess that's all that matters.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

dracofish said:


> USMC*sPiKeY* said:
> 
> 
> > I think she's gorgeous too, but i always thought she was one of those evangelist......
> ...


 And what lyrics are those?!


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

> I would say that Evanescence is goth...and I think she's gorgeous...


ewww man if you saw her in person you wouldn't be saying that... she's kinda chunky and doesn't know how to put on makeup she doesn't appeal to me at all...

Music videos don't count cause they get like 3 hours of makeup put on em


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> dracofish said:
> 
> 
> > USMC*sPiKeY* said:
> ...


From both the albums Origin and Fallen, "Imaginary," two different versions of the same song:
_Swallowed up in the sound of my screaming
Cannot cease for the fear of silent nights
Oh how I long for the deep sleep dreaming
The goddess of imaginary light
_

From the album Origin, "Even in Death":
_Give me a reason to believe that you're gone
I see your shadow so I know they're all wrong
Moonlight on the soft brown earth
It leads me to where you lay
They took you away from me but now I'm taking you home

[CHORUS:]
I will stay forever here with you
My love
The softly spoken words you gave me
Even in death our love goes on

Some say I'm crazy for my love, Oh my love
But no bonds can hold me from your side, Oh my love
They don't know you can't leave me
They don't hear you singing to me_

From an unreleased song "Breathe No More":
_I've been looking in the mirror for so long.
That I've come to believe my soul's on the other side.
All the little pieces falling, shatter.
Shards of me,
To sharp to put back together.
To small to matter,
But big enough to cut me into so many little pieces.
If I try to touch her,
And I bleed,
I bleed,
And I breathe,
I breathe no more.

Take a breath and I try to draw from my spirits well.
Yet again you refuse to drink like a stubborn child.
Lie to me,
Convince me that I've been sick forever.
And all of this,
Will make sense when I get better.
But I know the difference,
Between myself and my reflection.
I just can't help but to wonder,
Which of us do you love.
So I bleed,
I bleed,
And I breathe,
I breathe now...
Bleed,
I bleed,
And I breathe,
I breathe,
I breathe-
I breathe no more.
_

Those are just the ones that stand out most, but most of her songs are quite dark and gothic. The only one that I can think of that has a definate Christian undertone is "Tourniquet" on Fallen. That song, however, was not written by her. She claims that a friend wrote it and she liked the way the song sounded so she decided to include it on the album. If you didn't know, she has many more songs beyond the mass released Fallen. Her first album, Origin, only had about 2,500 copies released and there's another whole album's worth of songs that weren't released on one at all. Most of the music doesn't go definate one way or the other, but with all the dark undertones, it's tough to imagine a Christian singing it. I know she does claim to be a Christian, but I tell that to people that too once in a while to make them leave me alone.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

dracofish said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > dracofish said:
> ...


 I have both albums.









But I believe that though you may not believe in certain things, it shouldnt stop you from singing about it. Perhaps she was trying to cater to more people than just sticking to her christian ways?!


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

dracofish said:


> Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...


 From a personal level, I can say that not ALL Christians act as you have stated. However the type you have describe annoy the hell out of me, because they usually end up being hypocrites in the end.


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

Thats why i have decided to choose no religion, they all seem like cults... 
i mean honestly when you go to mass its a bunch of people standing there zoned out like zombies speaking prayers and singing song in a monotone voice...

its like david cross said "People give jesus way more credit then he deservs"


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> dracofish said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...
> ...


 That's why I said most that I know on a personal level. In no way did I say "all."


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

dracofish said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > dracofish said:
> ...


 Didnt mean to give emphasis that you did.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

dracofish said:


> Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...


this whole thread is about not pigeon holing people, letting them be who they will be, yet you just went and did the same thing..... again, im confused?









And saying "most" does not excuse you of this prejudice.

I can say "most" goths are f*cking losers....and my head wouldve been bitten off by you.

** The Goth statement is not my opinion, simply a rhetorical sentence.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

is ozzy a true goth or a fake poser goth?

i am a chirstain and look where i am


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Xenon said:


> dracofish said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...
> ...


 You seem to have problems understanding what I said. This has nothing to do with the way people dress. Listen to typical Christian music and get back to me...99.9% of it is exactly the way I described...yet for some reason Amy Lee's music was sold in Christian music stores for a short period of time. That's why I said that she isn't the "norm," if she is, in fact, a Christian singer.

How is sharing my own personal experiences with most of the Christians that I have crossed paths with making a rash generalization? I in no way said that all Christians are like that...I just said that "most" of the ones I have met are. I did however see people saying that Goths are stupid in this thread. I didn't see you attacking them for making that generalization...


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

dracofish said:


> Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...


Ok touched on religion. That just pissed me off. Sorry to think that you generalize Christians as having their heads "too far up their asses". I think its quite hard to infer something about a certain religion especially when the certain religion has an almost immeasurable amount of followers. I'm not here to repress your beliefs in any way, I just think that you have things totally opposite.. Most goths or darker people won't let Christians learn about their beliefs. Most goths are loners or tend to stick with synonymous cultures. If you think most followers of Christianity will not accept your beliefs, that right there is wrong. As a christian, I was taught to admire all cultures for all their beauties and all religions regardless of the one I practice. But you must see the perspective on this. Goths are often thought of as devil worshippers, people who would die for Anton Levey or something extreme as that. That may not be the case but it could come off as a stereotype and what else do we have in America to base our judgements on but stereotypes?


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Yeah you're makin it seem like all christians are on a high horse....one of my best friend is muslim and a lot of others arent even close to being Cristian....a lot are jewish too, some hindhu.....or is this all from the fumes in my ass??


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

InIndiana said:


> dracofish said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if that is true, then I give her props, because most Christians that I know on a personal level have their heads too far up their asses to even consider catering to someone with different beliefs. They would more than likely just refuse to discuss it and instead stick to the more "classic" Christian regimen of singing about witnessing, evangelizing, and praise...
> ...


OMG. I said MOST CHRISTIANS I HAVE MET...not ALL CHRISTIANS IN GENERAL! Key words: that I have met...meaning ones that I know...I don't know you or any Christians that live in other areas, so how can I know about them? I can't...that's why I used those important keys words: that I have met. Please read what I wrote!

As far as me not letting them understand me...wow. My ex best friend is an Advent Christian Pastor's daughter. Most of my ex friends all went to the same church and were in the same Bible study group that I used to frequent. My uncle is a certified Bible thumper. Got it? All those people, I mean all, turned their backs on me when I "came out." They didn't want to learn...they didn't give me the chance to try to tell them that their assumptions about my beliefs were wrong. I am dead in their eyes. So please, think before you make your own assumptions. I would like nothing more than to be understood and get rid of all those awful misconceptions that are floating around about followers of the Old Religion. Unfortunately, that probably will never happen because not everyone wants to know (see my sig). I'm sorry if you guys think I was talking about all, but as you can see, I did not say that, and I certainly didn't intent for it to sound like that. I've been burned by those that used to call themselves my friends and family and now refuse to do so in the name of their religion, so it's kinda tough to not carry a chip on my shoulder. I hope that shed some light onto my situation.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

dracofish said:


> InIndiana said:
> 
> 
> > dracofish said:
> ...


 Why so many 'ex-friends?' I remember God told us to 'love thy neighbor'







.....now lets go out into the woods and prance around a fire chanting old language tongues!


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## burna (Feb 10, 2004)

Maybe if everyone just stop being so prejudice, stereotypical, and close-minded, you could all realize that NONE OF THIS BULLSHIT MATTERS. Why concern yourself with others BS. Just believe what you want to and let them do the same. And if they judge you for being yourself who really cares, at least can be the bigger person by not retaliating and they would be the close minded dumbasses anyway.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

dracofish said:


> OMG. I said MOST CHRISTIANS I HAVE MET...not ALL CHRISTIANS IN GENERAL! Key words: that I have met...meaning ones that I know...I don't know you or any Christians that live in other areas, so how can I know about them? I can't...that's why I used those important keys words: that I have met. Please read what I wrote!


 I am reading what you wrote. The irony still exists that many people on this threads have said things similar to "the goths i met are all losers that have no self esteem".

Result: You tore into them for being close minded.

You say the Christians you have met are all judgemental and close minded (a summation of your comments). When we call you on that hypocrisy you backlash.

Result: We cant understand that your experience with Christians has been limited to a select few who cast a bad light on the worldwide religion encompassing millions and millions of people.

I still have yet to find an answer on why YOU are allowed to generalize and belittle, while others are required to be the absolute open minded people there are.

Please enlighten me?


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## hays98 (Mar 8, 2003)

i thought this was closed?


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Please enlighten me?


 you really want me to do that?









i have had the same kind of response as draco, most of the christians that i knew didnt like me. i once yelled fuckface at a christain school and everyone hated me

yes i went to a christain school, and about a week after i was there i didnt have any friends because of who i was. i liked hard rock, i liked snakes, i liked breaking rules

i was an outkast there cause they thougt all i was was whorshipping the devil, when i was really being me, just plain me

now that was just a personal exprience, not all christains are like that, but that was the christains i knew and they hated me and banishid me. i am sure that there are other christains that arent like that.

(i was forced to leave after stealing stuff)


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Xenon, I seem to remember people not using the important key words like "most" or "that I've met" when speaking about Goths. Therefore, they were making more of a generalization that me. They were being just as hypocritical, if not more, than me. We're all hypocrites from time to time. If you don't agree, then chances are that you're in denial. I see lots of cases where someone calls another on being a hypocrite and then is guilty of the very same thing themselves. I don't see you ripping into anyone else, like the guy that made the vast generalization along the lines of "Goths are stupid losers." Nobody said boo to him, yet you seem to have to consistently call me out on my hypocrisy when I made less of a generalization than that person and most everyone else.


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

I am christian at the moment and don't give a sh*t what people believe they have their own minds. Lu buddy well if you are going to a christian school it is a lil bit different because breaking the rules is being sinful it is a CHRISTIAN SCHOOL. Lol they don't give a care about what you like the reason why they may have looked down upon you is because the serpant is also the sign of the devil at work. The serpent tempted Adam I believe in picking the apple. I don't remember I am not much on religion I just believe in God and that is all that matters to me. Goths are all different kinds of people some goths don't have self esteem while others are very arrogant about themselves. I being one of them am arrogant in some eyes.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

who cares now lets og to the bar :beer:


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

How about.... lets go to 711 and get a slurpee!


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

pcrose said:


> How about.... lets go to 711 and get a slurpee!


 we can stop there on the way for all you youngins


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

hays98 said:


> i thought this was closed?

















Perhaps a figment of your imagination?!


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

I am old I just don't drink lol


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## hays98 (Mar 8, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> hays98 said:
> 
> 
> > i thought this was closed?
> ...


 my bad


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

pcrose said:


> I am old I just don't drink lol


 you will be young after a couple of beers :laugh:


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

pcrose said:


> I am old I just don't drink lol


 maybe you would be kind enough to be the DD

that way we can be safe drunks and youd get a show


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## Hypergenix (Dec 17, 2003)

Innes,
plz change your avatar








i never finish reading what you post cause the fat girl alway get my attention.... she too cutie


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