# plant list check by experienced hobbiests



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

This is the innitial plant of a 125. 72" x 18". Pressurized CO2, soilmaster select substrate, dry ferts 3x weekly. 120 watts from t-8 flora suns, 156 watts from current t-5s with 10k/plant, or 2.2 wpg. I am new to the hobby so with no experience I dont know if i am making any mistakes. If it was your tank what would you do differently? In a few months, once I have everything down and the tank is settled and more stable, I will start getting rid of some of the weeds and add more anubias and mid/foreground. Eventually I would like it to be an Amazonian themed tank, as it has piranha in it, so please keep that in mind. My main concerns are:

Do I have enough variety in plant type/height?

Will these plants be healthy in my setup?

Should I avoid any of these plants?

Do I have too many different plants? As in, should I do fewer species with more of each? For a simpler, better divided, more natural scape, as opposed to having too much random chaos?

Just any general suggestions or comments would be appreciated. Thanks alot!

The stem plants are bunched with 8-10 stems each.

Ambulia (Limnophila indica) x3

Anacharis (Egeria najas) x3

Bacopa (Bacopa carolina) x3

Green Temple (Hygrophilia corymbosa) x3

Heteranthera Stargrass (Heteranthera zosterfolia) x3

Limnophila 'hippuroides' (Limnophila hippuroides) x3

Ludwigia, Broad Leaf (Ludwigia repens) x3

Rotala Indica (Rotala roundifolia) x3

Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) x3

Wendtii, Red (Cryptocoryne wendtii) x3

Sword, Amazon Sword (Echinodorus bleheri) x3

Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus) x2

Cryptocoryne becketti x2

Retrospiralis (Cryptocoryne retrospiralis) x3

Sag, Dwarf Subulata (Sagittaria subulata)(10 plants per order) x2

Vallisneria "Dark Red Jungle Val" (sold 10 plants per order) x1

Java Moss (Vesicularia Dubyana) x2

Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) x3

Hygrophila balsamica (Hygrophila balsamica) x3

Hygrophila corymbosa 'Angustifolia' x3

Ludwigia Peruensis (Ludwigia peruensis) x3

Mayaca (Mayaca fluviatilis) x3

Moneywort (Bacopa Monnieri) x3

Myrio, Red (Myriophyllum heterophyllum) x3

Pogostemon stellata (Eusteralis) x3

Potamogeton gayi x3

Rotala Magenta (Rotala macrandra v. 'narrow leaf') x3

Crypt, Walkerii x3

Ciliata (Cryptocoryne ciliata) x3

Balansae (Cryptocoryne crispatula) x3

Wendtii, Bronze (Cryptocoryne wendtii v. 'Tropica') x2


----------



## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Dwarf Subulata - grows like crazy, but looks good if thats the only foreground plant.
Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) - grows like crazy, wouldn't recommend in high light.
Heteranthera Stargrass (Heteranthera zosterfolia) - looks really cool and would recommend it.
Limnophila 'hippuroides' (Limnophila hippuroides) - looks awesome in a tank.

Looks like you got too many background plants. They fill out a tank more than you think. I made the mistake of adding too many and now I just have to rip a bunch out all the time, because they create a shadow and block out the foreground plants. Swords, crypts, anubias, vals, and hygrophilia plants look the best as an amazon set up. The high light plants (limnophila, stargrass, etc) look good in a show tank.

Try this Website and see the different set ups your self.


----------



## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

That many plants would be a way too busy...I would narrow it done to a good foreground/carpet plant, 1 or 2 background plants (1 species for the middle, one for the ends), and few midground species groupings . A driftwood centerpiece and/or some accent pieces would look good too.

You also have to take into consideration the fish...stem plants and pygos don't always mix. I also would not do the E. bleheri as it will outgrow your tank. Those leaves will easily get 18-24" in that type of setup. I had one in my 75g that kept sending out runners that I would replant. I was constantly stocking my home tanks, tanks at school and my friend's tank (they didn't do so hot in that water) and still ended up with 9 plants in the 75g with no room for my geryi. I've slowly narrowed it down to 5, then will got to 3, 1, and then none. Pick a smaller species if you want a sword.

For your sanity, I would do some val in the background, maybe some stargrass or green temple in the corners where you can get to it, and groups of cryptocrynes and anubias for the midground. You could try dwarf sag for a foreground carpet , but I think you would have better luck with E. tennelus (narrowleaf) if you can get it to stay in the Soilmaster. I know the wideleaf will stay put...in fact it will go nuts if you let it, but tends to choke itself off more than the narrowleaf.


----------



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

thanks for the comments guys. you have been more help than the people on plantedtank.net and APC. that site you linked to, maknwar, will be a big help too. most of those stems are going to be gone completely within a couple months. ive just been told that i need to start out with a bunch of fast growing stems in this co2, mid-high light tank to keep algae under control at the start. the rule of thumb i was told is 1 stem per square inch of footprint. so this 125 is 1296 in^2 and if all those stem bunches come with 10 stems each (which is wishful thinking), thats still only 570 stems, or about half the "rule". in a month or two i will get rid of most of the stems and put alot more anubias and crypts and vals for background. ill scrap the e bleheri, and narrow down the stems to 5 or 6 species. i looked at the e tenellus, and i cant tell the difference between it and dwarf sag sabulata? why do you think ill have trouble with the dwarf sab? im sure the pygos are going to rip most of the stems up, so ive already decided not to frustrate myself and just let them float, soaking up nutrients, lol. for the final scape all i know for sure is i want sag in the foreground, along with some other carpet type besides clover (micro swords?, dwarf baby tears?), a lot of anubias, crypts, hygros, java ferns, etc for midground. moss (java, x-mas) on my driftwood. a lot of vals, a few swords, lim. aromatica on one side, and a few others im not sure about in the background. thats the main reason i was going to order such a variety now, so i can see which plants i like and toss the ones i dont, since ive never seen most of these before, or know how they will grow in my tank. i need as much swimming room as i can keep, and need these things to be anchored down well so the pygos dont stir them up everytime something spooks them. anyway thanks again you guys are a lot of help, especially since you know what kind of fish im dealing with.


----------



## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Make sure your are looking at the narrowleaf E. tennelus. Dwarf sag can get pretty tall and grows more like val...runners pop up here and there and some get bigger than others creating an uneven look. It just doesn't look as good as a carpet of E. tennelus and doesn't spread as fast. I would compare sag to crabgrass and E. tennelus (narrow leaf) as your lawn. Dwarf sag does grow better in low light setups than tennelus, but you won't have a problem with your lighting and CO2. Sag is also more invasive than the narrow leafed tennelus for that reason (wide leaf tennelus can get taller and more pesky like dwarf sag, but still fills in better). The narrow leaf tennelus runners tend to die off or stay reduced near the base of taller plants keeping it somewhat in check. It basically fills in the empty spots without choking out the other plants.

I just tore down my 46g bow that had a carpet of narrow leaf tennelus around a grouping of crypts...it was a very low maintenance 2wpg CO2 tank. Very few problems with algae on the narrow leaves, dead leaves sucked up easy, crypts would melt when my water got out of whack and then pop back, and the tennelus roots stayed near the surface while the crypt rhizomes spread under them. The tennelus became so intertwined that I was pulling out mats of the stuff and was able to seperate the clumps and plant a lawn in my new 75g AND 40g breeder tanks around a driftwood centerpiece. Now that was in Eco Complete...I've only had broad leaf in Soilmaster and it took over that tank because I picked low growing swords.

I don't know that you have to have stem plants to avoid algae...just lost of plants. Soilmaster is pretty porus and plant roots can easily access the water column. That reminds me...DO NOT USE FERT TABS IN SOILMASTER!!! Because Soilmaster is so light and gets kicked around so easily, buried fert tabs will wreak havoc on your tank. I found that out the hard way with my rhom's tank with the wideleaf tennelus...ended up taking the CO2 off of that tank and ripping out all the tennelus. I actually just moved my rhom into my marginatus' old tank tonight since he is now in the newly planted 75g at home. Cleaned out all the soilmaster and went low tech with lots of driftwood and pea gravel because he would spazz and kick up the crap in the Soilmaster...I may add some java fern and anubias later, but it is my only tank W/O plants now besides my temp tank. I didn't have a Soilmaster problem until I had to pull that E. tennelus out of his old tank.

Damn that was a long post...


----------



## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

The sag will over take the other foreground plants. The wisteria would be an excellent nutrient sponge, but never understood why people recommend that. If you are adding dry ferts, why not just cut down on what you are adding? The high lights soak everything up any ways. Oh yea, prepare to get algae after a week or two. It seems to go away after a month or two.

In my 125, the plants seem to stay in place. Getting them to root and stay there take a little time.


----------



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/po938.htm

is that the right tenellus? if so, whats another plant that i could use up front. maybe blending the tenellus into microsword or something like that? or HC (dwarf baby tears)? will these plants grow in my setup? what other forground/carpet do you like? i have made some changes to the plant list. im going to order all the anubias, vals, crypts and such now, along with some wisteria, bacopa, green temple, stargrass, and rotala indica.

do you think it would look better to stick with one type of val (dark red jungle), or maybe add another type like corkscrew?


----------



## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Do you have to call into lesco to get soilmaster select? becacuse im heading down to the states and want to pick up a bunch of it.

how much is a bag anyways.


----------



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

Trigga said:


> Do you have to call into lesco to get soilmaster select? becacuse im heading down to the states and want to pick up a bunch of it.
> 
> how much is a bag anyways.


i called my local store but all they had was red. they ordered some charcoal colored for me and it arrived in like two days. i was suprised to say the least. the 50lb bags are 13.something each. the guy who ordered it for me said i would have to pay 6 dollars for shipping, but when i picked it up they didnt charge me.


----------



## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

BlackLabel said:


> Do you have to call into lesco to get soilmaster select? becacuse im heading down to the states and want to pick up a bunch of it.
> 
> how much is a bag anyways.


i called my local store but all they had was red. they ordered some charcoal colored for me and it arrived in like two days. i was suprised to say the least. the 50lb bags are 13.something each. the guy who ordered it for me said i would have to pay 6 dollars for shipping, but when i picked it up they didnt charge me.
[/quote]

Good deal...I always paid around $17 bucks after taxes and ordered it online shipped to store.


----------



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

Wow, those tanks are both very nice. Thats very similar to what I'm hoping to come out with. I have revised the plant list. I know it still looks like a lot, but I narrowed down the stems to 5 or 6 species, plus there are fewer of each. And only one of each of most of the anubias and crypts. I'm just trying to figure out another foreground plant now, and then I should be almost set I think.

Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) x3

Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides) Pot x3

Bacopa (Bacopa carolina) x3

Green Temple (Hygrophilia corymbosa) x3

Heteranthera Stargrass (Heteranthera zosterfolia) x3

Limnophila 'hippuroides' (Limnophila hippuroides) x3

Rotala Indica (Rotala roundifolia) x3

Frazeri (Anubias 'Frazeri') x1

Anubias Nana (Anubias barteri v. 'Nana') x1

Congensis (Anubias 'Congensis') x1

Anubias Coffeefolia (Anubias barteri v. 'Coffeefolia') x1

Anubias Barteri (Anubias barteri v. 'Round Leaf') x1

Cryptocoryne becketti x2

Amazon Sword (Echinodorus bleheri) Pot x2

Java Fern(Microsorum pterous) Pot x2

Crypt Wendtii, Red (Cryptocoryne wendtii) Pot x2

Crypt, Walkerii x1

Retrospiralis (Cryptocoryne retrospiralis) x1

Balansae (Cryptocoryne crispatula) x1

Vallisneria "Dark Red Jungle Val" (sold 10 plants per order) x2

Sword, Narrow Leaf Chain (Echinodorus tennelus)(sold 10 per order) x2

Java Moss (Vesicularia Dubyana) x2


----------



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

BioTeAcH said:


> If you're trying different vals, remember that jungle val gets huge...I was constantly trimming it. Corkscrew val stays smaller, so if you do both, position accordingly.


Good, thats what I'm looking for. I had in mind just kind of a wall at the very back of the tank, not pertruding out into the middle swimming area too much. Mabye put a piece of driftwood in front of it to keep the lower part held back against the wall.


----------



## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

BlackLabel said:


> Wow, those tanks are both very nice. Thats very similar to what I'm hoping to come out with. I have revised the plant list. I know it still looks like a lot, but I narrowed down the stems to 5 or 6 species, plus there are fewer of each. And only one of each of most of the anubias and crypts. I'm just trying to figure out another foreground plant now, and then I should be almost set I think.
> 
> Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) x3
> 
> ...


I like that list. I think you would be happy with all of those. Some a little harder to grow and some almost impossible to kill.


----------



## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

BlackLabel said:


> It looks a little thick to me...the narrow or fine leaf gets a reddish tinge under higher light while the wide leaf stays green and looks more like sag only bushier. Remember that the swords are rosette plants and the sag grows like val.


Hmmm....I hope its the right one. Maybe they have the wrong picture or something. It says narrow leaf E Tenellus so hopefully it's the right one. I dont know how rosette plants grow or differ from vals and sag. It looks like they still use runners though so I guess it should be fine.
[/quote]

You can't go wrong with either tennelus...both will give you a good carpet. I think it is the right one because if you go to the description of the 10 per order (E. tennelus (10 per order)) the description is correct. They may also be showing pictures of the emersed form instead of the immersed form. Rosette plants radiate leaves out from the center in all directions...sag and val grow more unidirectional so the leaves look like a bunch of V's stacked together.

I actually would like to try a carpet of the broadleaf in my geryi's 75g since I think it will do better in Soilmaster than the narrow. It did great in my rhom's tank until I had an algae explosion, but my setups at home have a better water source and get more loving. You may want to get some of each and grow them in seperate patches...IME you could do the narrow as foreground, broad as midground, and val as background. I would section of the substrate if you did that though...you could even use Eco Complete in the section with the narrow tennelus if it won't stay put in the Soilmaster.


----------



## blacklabel (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm going to do soilmaster with about half to three quarters of an inch of black sand (thats in the tank now) on top. thats the plan anyway. I imagine it will eventually all mix together more than I'd like, but I dont guess it will be a problem. Other than cosmetics. Thats a good idea about ordering both. I think I'll order one portion of the regular as a backup.


----------

