# dumbass brother



## Jonas (Mar 14, 2003)

Ok, sorry if this is not in the best interests of the discussion that was just taking place about other fish living with p's (by the way, I had a 6 inch oscar get devoured in 30 minutes by both my 4 inch p's if it helps any) Ok, my question to anyone and everyone out there is pretty easy to answer, I just need some input from others so I can print the responses and show them to my brother who fucked up...

He stupidly went to an lfs where this fat lady who does'nt know jack sh*t about p's told him it's ok to keep up to 7 full size p's in a 55 gal. tank BULLSHIT. Not only does she not know much about them, she does not feed them often enough in the store, so they all die or get cannabalized. I told my dumbass brother to get no more than 3 for a 55, and even that will not be enough 6 months down the road. My question is this: should he just go ahead and keep all 5 until they are about 2-3 inches long and sell the 2 least dominant fish ? sound like a good solution ?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I would keep them until they started to get crowded. That may be when they are 3" or 6", just depends on the fish and how they interact. This is just what I do though as I dont feel there is any hard and fast rule. I like to overstock until they grow out and then reduce the #'s.


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## Jonas (Mar 14, 2003)

Thanks for the input. I told him he was an idiot, but he decided to listen to the chick at the lfs. The only reason I worry about them going cannibal is that 3 of them are already shoaling together as the dominant pack and the other 2 arent at all, they just hide. This is a recipe for disaster.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Not to sound bad, but when my Ps had babies, I put the surviving 20 in a 29 gal tank until they were 2". Worked out great... I had an eheim 2217 in it. Then I moved them to a 55 gal, where they all stayed until they were 4" and I sold them. They seem to do fine in an crowded tank. I had a powerful filter and a few powerheads to keep the current up. I also lower the temp of the tank. None of them was killed, but some scars was left.







Irresponsible? yes. Genius? absolutely.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> I would keep them until they started to get crowded. That may be when they are 3" or 6", just depends on the fish and how they interact. This is just what I do though as I dont feel there is any hard and fast rule. I like to overstock until they grow out and then reduce the #'s.


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## Jonas (Mar 14, 2003)

Right on, guys! thanx for the info. I'm gonna recommend that he keep them in until they are of a size that he can make some $$$ off of at least two. As for the tank itself, I got him the 55 for free and helped him set it up. I'm not sure what kind of bio filter it was that he purchased but it's a setup for a 70 gal. and he did take my advice with 4 bubblers, dual undergravel filters and pumps and raising the temp to 82 so they have an appetite while they are juveeezzz. Thanks to all.....Adam


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

5 in a 55 for life is a do-able. someone here on this board is doing that.


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## Honda99_300ex (Apr 18, 2003)

When i first got my 55 i put 14 babie reds in it and had all 14 until they were about 4'', then I went to 9, and i had those until they were 5.5", and now i got the Ternetzi which is 7.5'' and 2 reds that are 6".It worked out pretty good too, the occasional fin nipping and fighting tho.I did also feed the a lot too.


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> I would keep them until they started to get crowded. That may be when they are 3" or 6", just depends on the fish and how they interact. This is just what I do though as I dont feel there is any hard and fast rule. I like to overstock until they grow out and then reduce the #'s.


 or get a bigger tank, thats what I did.

went from 5 reds at 3-6" in a 40 tall to a 125.

btw: 40 talls suck for reds


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## Jonas (Mar 14, 2003)

yeah, I bet... I also wonder if a 40 tall might not be that wise to reach into with your hands as well hmmm? can anyone say longer net handle?


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

Jonas said:


> yeah, I bet... I also wonder if a 40 tall might not be that wise to reach into with your hands as well hmmm? can anyone say longer net handle?


i was fairly paranoid about it, but i did anyway.

still have my stubbs
















< the only phalanges i have left >


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I think people are WAY to paranoid about tank space. My friend has 6 rbp in a 55 and they have grown to 9 inches (eyeball measurement). While I wouldnt condone this, there is NO PROBLEM with housing smaller fish in smaller tanks temporarily. We ALL need to make a distinction between LIFE and SHORT TERM. Nine times out of ten any piranha owner is keeping their piranha for the "short term", i.e. under 3 years. FOR LIFE means to allow the p's to reach maximum size comfortably while living in the same tank. We are not talking 12 inch monsters here. We are taling 3-4 inch piranha. Of course you can keep way over the 20g per fish rule when they are so small....

just realize, eventually you will have to upgrade for the fish to grow to its maximum size with maximum comfort.

I really think we all need to get a little more realistic with tank space requirements.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

I can't think of one hobby fish that would need a tall tank as oppose to a wide tank. I think its mainly for planted aquariums.. right?


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## Honda99_300ex (Apr 18, 2003)

there are a couple fish that would use a tall tank, like a butterfly fish, and i've noticed my girlfriends blackfin shark is always swimming at the top, i'm not sure tho, maybe it's just a dumbass


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I think people are WAY to paranoid about tank space. My friend has 6 rbp in a 55 and they have grown to 9 inches (eyeball measurement). While I wouldnt condone this, there is NO PROBLEM with housing smaller fish in smaller tanks temporarily. We ALL need to make a distinction between LIFE and SHORT TERM. Nine times out of ten any piranha owner is keeping their piranha for the "short term", i.e. under 3 years. FOR LIFE means to allow the p's to reach maximum size comfortably while living in the same tank. We are not talking 12 inch monsters here. We are taling 3-4 inch piranha. Of course you can keep way over the 20g per fish rule when they are so small....
> 
> just realize, eventually you will have to upgrade for the fish to grow to its maximum size with maximum comfort.
> 
> I really think we all need to get a little more realistic with tank space requirements.


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## Young Gotti (Jan 29, 2003)

I have 5 Red's in a 55. Read my sig. they will be going in my 120 very soon though. Not too much fin nipping they get along well, just keep up on the water changes and have good filtration.


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## flexxxn (Mar 21, 2003)

Im trying the 5 in a 55 gallon right now. They are 7"-9". Been in there for a couple of days and are doing just great. Very playful and taking turns at whose the most dominant.
I have a fluval 404 and 402 powerhead, which i think is plenty.
They wont be in this tank longer than 6 months as ill be buying a much larger tank. I want to grow them out to be monster 11 inch's plus!!
Ill keep u posted on any developments over the next several months.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

flexxxn said:


> Im trying the 5 in a 55 gallon right now. They are 7"-9". Been in there for a couple of days and are doing just great. Very playful and taking turns at whose the most dominant.
> I have a fluval 404 and 402 powerhead, which i think is plenty.
> They wont be in this tank longer than 6 months as ill be buying a much larger tank. I want to grow them out to be monster 11 inch's plus!!
> Ill keep u posted on any developments over the next several months.


 This is the point I would be starting to switch them out. 7-9 inches is getting a little big for only 10 gallons a fish....I am getting 5-6 9 inch RBP in and I am gonna put 3 each in a 55 just so I can provide the maximum space for growth.


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## memen (Mar 14, 2003)

I try 5 rbp in 70 gallon for LIFE, i think its a good space for 5 adult Piranhas, and in the futur, I'll make a 150 gallon, for a group of 15-20 rbp.








i think 5 natts in 55 can run for life but p's don't grow like in nature


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## jasert39 (May 1, 2003)

I am moving my five 1.5 - 2 inch reds into a 75 soon and i was thinking about buysome more for a short time in order to make some money later. I would like to end up with the 5 living in the tank for life.








why not try to make a few bucks and have the satisfaction of seeing the p's grow for a while


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## dead golfish (Apr 24, 2003)

I have 2 rbp's in a 20 they are still small about 1-1.5" i'm moving them and getting 2-3 more into a 55


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## DiXoN (Jan 31, 2003)

it is probably possible 5 in a 55 upto a certain size as xenon advised i had 4 in total 2 8'' reds and 2 4'' reds with no problems at all but over those sort of sizes it will get cramped i would say at the max 6-7'' preferably 6'' then upgrade.
dixon


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> I would keep them until they started to get crowded. That may be when they are 3" or 6", just depends on the fish and how they interact. This is just what I do though as I dont feel there is any hard and fast rule. I like to overstock until they grow out and then reduce the #'s.


 overstock...yeah


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## rong666 (Mar 5, 2003)

i have 4 5" natts in a 55. they seem to get along ok. they only f##k with eachother when they are stressed(like after a water change or if im dickn' with the plants and decos).in 2 weeks im upgrading to an 80 gal and im flirting with the idea of introducing two more.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

i have 5 pir in a 55 and they are doin fine they are 5 to7 inches long but soon the mother of all thanks is coming.as long as i canvince my girlfriend it worth the money. a 265 gallon tank and i am already makin room for it.just got to get up the money


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## readingbabelfish (Jan 16, 2003)

Yo! I just moved my 5 4inch rbp out of the 55 and into a 75. I am sure I could have left them in there, but I needed the space for my 6 inch rhom. Plus, I wanted to get a gold spilo baby for my 20g. Coool!!!


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

LFS often have a lack of understanding of piranha because they're often using out of date literature about them. The most common misconception they have is listing a red belly under Serrasalmus Genus instead of Pygocentrus. That right there should signal off warning signs. Other warning signs I would watch for are labels that simply say "piranha" or "red belly". These can often be worse than those calling them Serrasalmus because at least they have some literature about them and the store using "piranha" as a label usually have none and know far less. The best defense against this ignorance is being knowledgable about what you're purchasing even if the salesperson is not. Do your research and don't listen to a salesperson who you feel knows nothing about piranha is telling you. Tell him about our site and he can join and have a world of information at his feet.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I think people are WAY to paranoid about tank space. My friend has 6 rbp in a 55 and they have grown to 9 inches (eyeball measurement). While I wouldnt condone this, there is NO PROBLEM with housing smaller fish in smaller tanks temporarily. We ALL need to make a distinction between LIFE and SHORT TERM. Nine times out of ten any piranha owner is keeping their piranha for the "short term", i.e. under 3 years. FOR LIFE means to allow the p's to reach maximum size comfortably while living in the same tank. We are not talking 12 inch monsters here. We are taling 3-4 inch piranha. Of course you can keep way over the 20g per fish rule when they are so small....
> 
> just realize, eventually you will have to upgrade for the fish to grow to its maximum size with maximum comfort.
> 
> I really think we all need to get a little more realistic with tank space requirements.


 Xenon, proper tank maintenance also plays a key role in fish growing to full potential in an overcrowded tank. I've noticed that my piranha's shoaled better when I was pushing past the 20g per fish rule but I was always sure to clean my tank in scheduled 1 week intervals. Piranha leave a hormone that when built up enough tells the piranha to slow or stop growth because the hormone build up is telling its system the area is too small for growth. I agree with your temporary basis full Xenon. I honestly believe 20g per fish is a little on the high side for those with tanks 80 gallons or more. In my 80 gallon I was pushing around 10g per fish and they seemed happy and not stressed at all. In fact they shoaled better than when I was with the 20g per fish rule.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

o snap its eric said:


> 5 in a 55 for life is a do-able. someone here on this board is doing that.


 just cause its do able doesnt mean its too smart i wouldnt do it


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## mechanic (Jan 11, 2003)

Hi.I have 5 reds in a 55 together.They do alright together.They range in size from 5" to 11".
At first the 2 I had together fought constantly.Then I added 3 more.
Since then they shoal together nicely,no fighting,no fin nips nothing.
They just chill together,till it's feeding time,when they shoal nicely and take down whatever food is offered,then they chill together again.
No probs! :smile: 
later
Eric


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## Outie (Feb 19, 2003)

I always used to be a big promoter about overstocking and i still do think its great under certain situations, but once your p's get larger around 6+ inches a tank tends to just looks small. I had 12 p's in my 125 and over the past month ive reduced it to 9 for the simple fact that now the tank just looks better and there not always in each others way.


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