# Do piranhas crossbreed?



## Sir Chuck II (Mar 24, 2004)

Just wondering since I have seen so much good advice and it seems like there are some very knowledgable folks here.....uhhhh is it possible for a red belly and a black stri to have ever been crossbred?? Don;t think this is weird, but I purchased what I thought, and what looked like a baby red belly. Well, now as Chuck is growing, the little notch along his forehead is more pronounced instead of gently sloped like a RB, yet, his colorization looks just like a red belly, except that his black spots are round like a black. His dorsel fin is looks more like a black being high in front and sloping back, yet like I said, his orangish red belly says RB. 
Oh, btw, he acts a little disfunctional too! Sometimes, he eats what he wants, kills the rest out of spite, then sometimes, just eats what he wants. 
HELP
I think I have Sybill for a fish! LOL


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## mr_rob_boto (Aug 31, 2003)

I think blacks can have a bit of a red belly too. Can you post some pics?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Sir Chuck II Posted on Mar 24 2004, 10:14 AM
> Just wondering since I have seen so much good advice and it seems like there are some very knowledgable folks here.....*uhhhh is it possible for a red belly and a black stri to have ever been crossbred??* ......._No. _
> 
> Don;t think this is weird, but I purchased what I thought, and what looked like a baby red belly. Well, now as Chuck is growing, the little notch along his forehead is more pronounced instead of gently sloped like a RB, yet, his colorization looks just like a red belly, except that his black spots are round like a black. His dorsel fin is looks more like a black being high in front and sloping back, yet like I said, his orangish red belly says RB.
> ...


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

NEED PICKS


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## losts0ul916 (Nov 19, 2003)

Can Pygos interbreed? I mean like a Tern and Piraya or Caribe and Red? That would be nice though.

EDIT: I don't even know the meaning of _interbreed_, just sounded like a good word to use.


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

Hey man---


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## amoor33 (Jan 21, 2004)

baby red have pointy beaks too


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> losts0ul916 Posted on Mar 24 2004, 04:41 PM
> Can Pygos interbreed? I mean like a Tern and Piraya or Caribe and Red? That would be nice though.
> 
> *Piraya and Cariba....No. Tern and Red Yes.*
> ...


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > losts0ul916 Posted on Mar 24 2004, 04:41 PM
> > Can Pygos interbreed? I mean like a Tern and Piraya or Caribe and Red? That would be nice though.
> >
> > *Piraya and Cariba....No. Tern and Red Yes.*
> > ...


 what about tern and cariba?


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## losts0ul916 (Nov 19, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > losts0ul916 Posted on Mar 24 2004, 04:41 PM
> > Can Pygos interbreed? I mean like a Tern and Piraya or Caribe and Red? That would be nice though.
> >
> > *Piraya and Cariba....No. Tern and Red Yes.*
> > ...


 That means I can't have a Ternraya.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> traumatic Posted on Mar 25 2004, 05:51 PM
> QUOTE (hastatus @ Mar 25 2004, 11:07 AM)
> QUOTE
> losts0ul916 Posted on Mar 24 2004, 04:41 PM
> ...


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

hastatus said:


> > traumatic Posted on Mar 25 2004, 05:51 PM
> > QUOTE (hastatus @ Mar 25 2004, 11:07 AM)
> > QUOTE
> > losts0ul916 Posted on Mar 24 2004, 04:41 PM
> > ...


 Wow.. That is really fascinating. I just can't help but wonder what happened to the fry?? Correct me if I'm wrong, but would that be a hybrid nattereri??? I assumed it was genetically possible, but never heard anything of it being done.

Thanks for the info Hastatus., and sorry if we got of on the wrong foot.


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

I asked that because I've seen terns that have head like a cariba and terns that have heads like common natts. though I guess I've seen reds w/ heads like cariba also.


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## Piranha_Adept (Feb 11, 2004)

traumatic said:


> I asked that because I've seen terns that have head like a cariba and terns that have heads like common natts. though I guess I've seen reds w/ heads like cariba also.


 Looks like there is no carved in stone head shape for pygos. Reds come in a variety of shapes and sizes just like people. I have seen a pair of reds from the Rio Araguaia. They look like Ternetzi with red bellies. Even the eyes aren't red. But they are classified as red belly piranha.

Here is a cool link

Head morphing


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

It's def a misleading trait, though fooling to the eye, one could surmize such questions.


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

I thought anything classified in the same genus could breed...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> erikcooper Posted on Mar 26 2004, 04:34 PM
> I thought anything classified in the same genus could breed


One would think that no? But these fishes are not found in the same river. Can it happen in your home aquario? unlikely, but then humans do manipulate genes.


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

Ok, I get ya, in the wild no it can't happen. In the home aquarium it could but is just unlikely, which is understandable.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

I have bred different species of cichlids to others.. and it works..

why is it different with P's?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Peacock Posted on Mar 27 2004, 03:45 AM
> *I have bred different species of cichlids to others.. and it works.. *
> 
> why is it different with P's?


Please list what those species are of cichlids and how you accomplished it. Then I will explain why a Serrasalmus, Pristobrycon or Pygopristis can't breed with Pygocentrus.


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## ttman (Jan 14, 2003)

plenty of cichlids have crossbred, such as (more common ones): convict x texas, red devil x jag, trimac x midas, midas x devil, dovii x jag, even angelfish x rams!!!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> ttman Posted on Mar 27 2004, 01:19 PM
> _plenty of cichlids have crossbred, such as (more common ones): convict x texas, red devil x jag, trimac x midas, midas x devil, dovii x jag, even angelfish x rams!!! _
> 
> *Thank you for your comment, however my question was directed at Peacock for his reply. I'm well aware of the Jack Wattley Discus x Ram and the cichlids cross-breeding issues. But again, this portion of the thread is for Peacock. However, this one is for you. Please provide a list of "tetras" that are cross-bred, not line bred.*
> ...


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

I don't know how it could be possible to breed Pygocentrus with Serrasalmus, Pygopristis, or Pristobrycon. Only combination I know is "possible" is Pygo x Pygo, maybe a P. nattereri x P. piraya. Only reason it can not happen in the wild is because they do not ever get around eash other because of distance and rivers that they live in.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> erikcooper Posted on Mar 29 2004, 07:23 AM
> I don't know how it could be possible to breed Pygocentrus with Serrasalmus, Pygopristis, or Pristobrycon. Only combination I know is "possible" is Pygo x Pygo, maybe a P. nattereri x P. piraya. Only reason it can not happen in the wild is because they do not ever get around eash other because of distance and rivers that they live in.


There's a bit more to it than that. Since these 2 haven't come back to reply (don't you just hate that?):laugh: I will tell you that there is a lack of hybridization among Pygocentrus species probably because of some incompatibility. According to one my friends in the research field, he does know that people have hybridized Piaractus and Colossoma, and Colossoma and Mylossoma. Other than that, not much work done on it because of the "compatibility issue." You won't find many characins cross-bred by hobbyists and it is not "as simple" as those found in Cichlidae which many share the same type of breeding behavior, genes, etc., (welcome to Darwinism). Like the Jack Wattley Discus x Ram, there was cross fertilization to create something new..


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

I anyone going to post pics of this fish we are talking about?


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

The only standpoint I am coming from is that it is genetically possible for pygocentrus to mix, or serrasalmus to mix, etc. Now whether you can entice them to do so or not is a different story. I would think it would be more possible to get some Serra hybrids than Pygo hybrids though.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> erikcooper Posted on Mar 29 2004, 04:15 PM
> *The only standpoint I am coming from is that it is genetically possible for pygocentrus to mix, or serrasalmus to mix, etc. Now whether you can entice them to do so or not is a different story.* I would think it would be more possible to get some Serra hybrids than Pygo hybrids though.


I agree with that remark. But it would take human intervention to accomplish it, which was/is my original statement. In natural water, as I will state again, the species are not in the same rivers (= Pygocentrus sp.). Those are concerns about P. nattereri being dumped in with P. piraya in Sao Francisco. Or as often reported S. rhombeus being introduced into Rio SF (alter S. brandtii). There is always a chance nature in its infinite wisdom would try and improve the gene pool as has often happened. Humans in their ideas of "improving" stock generally weaken it.


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