# Does Ph Level Have Anything To Do With Piranha's Coloration At All



## dmackey

just would like to know if ph level in your tank affect piranha's coloration any ? if so and how much since from what i have heard and gathered they perfer soft water . how much more do the color thrive with a lower ph ? or it doesnt matter for color , it's more so the diet that shows their bright colors ?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

ph shouldn't really have an effect on coloration unless you are at an extreme or there is a rapid change in ph... then your fish would most likely show a loss of coloration due to stress


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## dmackey

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> ph shouldn't really have an effect on coloration unless you are at an extreme or there is a rapid change in ph... then your fish would most likely show a loss of coloration due to stress


HOW WOULD i know if they are stressed any? and are you saying their diet is what shows there color most then ? and good params i assume?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

yup, a healthy fish with clean water and proper diet will look great.

you would know if they're stressed if you notice a change in appearance or behavior... right now, i'm sure your fish are stressed out, but once your tank straightens itself out, you should notice a difference in your fish.


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## assclown

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> ph shouldn't really have an effect on coloration unless you are at an extreme or there is a rapid change in ph... then your fish would most likely show a loss of coloration due to stress


actually i beg to differ, i had made a DIY styrophome (spelling sucks) back ground
a few months ago and used a type of concreate which i found a post online and sealed
it with a resin.....thought i was done, nope.

i cured it in water etc. and glued it to the tank, i then set it up for my p-bass and they
were just about white in color all of the time. they ate and were not skittish at all.
i let it go for a few days, still no color. i checked water perameters and the ph 
crept up to 8.5 and was still rising. that stupid background was slowly leaching
and causing ph spike.....i moved the fish back into my old tank and they got 
their color back.....so ive seen ph zap color from a fish


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## dmackey

assclown said:


> ph shouldn't really have an effect on coloration unless you are at an extreme or there is a rapid change in ph... then your fish would most likely show a loss of coloration due to stress


actually i beg to differ, i had made a DIY styrophome (spelling sucks) back ground
a few months ago and used a type of concreate which i found a post online and sealed
it with a resin.....thought i was done, nope.

i cured it in water etc. and glued it to the tank, i then set it up for my p-bass and they
were just about white in color all of the time. they ate and were not skittish at all.
i let it go for a few days, still no color. i checked water perameters and the ph 
crept up to 8.5 and was still rising. that stupid background was slowly leaching
and causing ph spike.....i moved the fish back into my old tank and they got 
their color back.....so ive seen ph zap color from a fish
[/quote]

hummm yea i've heard a similar story a few years back with the ph affecting the color of the fish. mine is a 7.8 i feel is a bit high for a fish that thrives in 7.0, not sure how much color im losing, but scared to risk the chemical solution , although some people have created there own methods of lowering and maintaining the ph with chemicals , guess just not a risk i really willing to take , thinking of adding driftwood but don't really want the hassel of tinting my water to do it, and peat tints the water also from what i've read and heard.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

assclown said:


> ph shouldn't really have an effect on coloration unless you are at an extreme or there is a rapid change in ph... then your fish would most likely show a loss of coloration due to stress


actually i beg to differ, i had made a DIY styrophome (spelling sucks) back ground
a few months ago and used a type of concreate which i found a post online and sealed
it with a resin.....thought i was done, nope.

i cured it in water etc. and glued it to the tank, i then set it up for my p-bass and they
were just about white in color all of the time. they ate and were not skittish at all.
i let it go for a few days, still no color. i checked water perameters and the ph 
crept up to 8.5 and was still rising. that stupid background was slowly leaching
and causing ph spike.....i moved the fish back into my old tank and they got 
their color back.....so ive seen ph zap color from a fish

[/quote]

i don't know why you would beg to differ, the stress from the ph spike you described is exactly what i said would cause a loss of coloration... i think we're both on the same page here


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## bigshawn

huummm, my ph stays around 7.4-7.6 and I see no affect on there color, I do think the very high ph 8 or higher would really stress piranhas and that may affect color in piranhas


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## dmackey

bigshawn said:


> huummm, my ph stays around 7.4-7.6 and I see no affect on there color, I do think the very high ph 8 or higher would really stress piranhas and that may affect color in piranhas


actually just tested my ph with the high range ph tester and i'm at a 8.0 wow....


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## Johnny_Zanni

put driftwood in.. I told you it won't leak tannins forever. I have driftwood in mine and my PH is 6.8


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## Piranha Guru

Johnny_Zanni said:


> put driftwood in.. I told you it won't leak tannins forever. I have driftwood in mine and my PH is 6.8


The problem with a pH of 8+ is that if the kH (buffering) is too high, driftwood won't do a thing. I had to move my rhom and sanchezi home from school because the source water changed over the years from mid 7 to 8.4-8.6 and the kH went through the roof! I had tons of driftwood in my rhom's tank and it stayed the same pH as the sanchezi's which had none. There color subdued a bit, and in particular, their heads seemed to take on a dullish gray color. They've been at my house since the end of August with water that has the proper pH and their color is back and the dull gray heads are normal.


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## Johnny_Zanni

my piranha tank has DW in it with a PH of 6.8 what your saying is the driftwood didnt do it. then why is my cichlid tank without DW 7.6?

driftwood has been proven as a way to reduce 
PH


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## dmackey

yea im thinking of the drift wood , gona try letting it sit in a bucket of water a few days as u suggested and see if i can make the color bleed out prior to putting it in my tank, since i dont really wana use chemicals to lower it, and peat would be ok i guess but again will tint my water which i dont want


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## Johnny_Zanni

dmackey said:


> yea im thinking of the drift wood , gona try letting it sit in a bucket of water a few days as u suggested and see if i can make the color bleed out prior to putting it in my tank, since i dont really wana use chemicals to lower it, and peat would be ok i guess but again will tint my water which i dont want


If you buy it from a petstore alot of times its already been soaked. All mine was so I never had problems with tannins. Just look on the label it should say if it has or not.

If your trying to figure out why your p's arn't colored up I can tell you now its stress lol.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

Johnny_Zanni said:


> my piranha tank has DW in it with a PH of 6.8 what your saying is the driftwood didnt do it. then why is my cichlid tank without DW 7.6?
> 
> driftwood has been proven as a way to reduce
> PH


you need to do some research on buffering capacity before you question people and make claims like that... with a really low kh, your tank is vulnerable to ph swings and adding driftwood could cause a significant drop in ph. with a very high kh, it takes a lot to lower ph, i know people that have off the chart kh readings and have tried using large amounts of peat, driftwood, etc in their tanks to lower ph and it hasn't done anything but make their water yellow.


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## Johnny_Zanni

If you ask somebody how you can lower your ph they usually say DRIFTWOOD if you wanna raise it then you use crushed coral or texas holy rock.

Mine and Dmackeys water will be very similar.

My tanks that have no driftwood keep a ph about 7.6, whereas my tanks that have driftwood go down to around 6.8

either way PH isn't whats causing his fish to not have full color


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## Johnny_Zanni

Im talking from personal experiance. Its what happens in my tanks. If it doesn't happen in yours then so be it


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## assclown

ive never had my ph drop from wood....ive never used
peat either.....i wonder if i could get over the color to use it


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

assclown said:


> ive never had my ph drop from wood....ive never used
> peat either.....i wonder if i could get over the color to use it


i was adding my own "blackwater extract" into my 75 and i really like the look of it after i got the lighting right. if you have really low light, it can look really natural, which i thought looked pretty cool... if you have too much light tho, it looks like someone peed in your tank, haha


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## Johnny_Zanni

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> ive never had my ph drop from wood....ive never used
> peat either.....i wonder if i could get over the color to use it


i was adding my own "blackwater extract" into my 75 and i really like the look of it after i got the lighting right. if you have really low light, it can look really natural, which i thought looked pretty cool... if you have too much light tho, it *looks like someone peed in your tank*, haha
[/quote]

Thats what happened to mine.. so I stopped using it


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## CLUSTER ONE

dmackey said:


> and peat would be ok i guess but again will tint my water which i dont want


Driftwood does this too over a long period of time Driftwood can make the water more acidic and lower pH, but like bioteach was saying it depends a lot on what your ph and buffering levels are at.


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## dmackey

sean-820 said:


> and peat would be ok i guess but again will tint my water which i dont want


Driftwood does this too over a long period of time Driftwood can make the water more acidic and lower pH, but like bioteach was saying it depends a lot on what your ph and buffering levels are at.
[/quote]

cool, so whats buffering levels ? how would i know that ? is there like a testing kit for that to ?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

if you have really high kh, your water would have a high buffering capacity, which means that your ph would be pretty resistant to change. you can buy a test kit for it, usually they come in a package with a gh test kit at the lfs.


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## dmackey

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> if you have really high kh, your water would have a high buffering capacity, which means that your ph would be pretty resistant to change. you can buy a test kit for it, usually they come in a package with a gh test kit at the lfs.


cool i will get the tester for it today and post results in about a hour


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## CLUSTER ONE

dmackey said:


> if you have really high kh, your water would have a high buffering capacity, which means that your ph would be pretty resistant to change. you can buy a test kit for it, usually they come in a package with a gh test kit at the lfs.


cool i will get the tester for it today and post results in about a hour
[/quote]
I got one in a basic test kit set like joe said. You mayby even bring a sample to the lfs and see if they can tell you.


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## assclown

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> ive never had my ph drop from wood....ive never used
> peat either.....i wonder if i could get over the color to use it


i was adding my own "blackwater extract" into my 75 and i really like the look of it after i got the lighting right. if you have really low light, it can look really natural, which i thought looked pretty cool... if you have too much light tho, it looks like someone peed in your tank, haha
[/quote]
yeah i used to get mopani wood and drop it right in, i didnt like the tannins
so now i boil the water, but your right joe, light is key i guess

low light? how would you get plants to grow in that low light situation?


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