# Did a water change today and parameters were worse.



## brianhellno (Jun 16, 2008)

Today I decided to test the water before and after a water change and it turned out the parameters were worse after the change.

Parameters before:

PH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20 PPM

After:

PH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0.5 PPM
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10 PPM

Some background:

125 Gallon tank
5 seven inch reds
I feed them every 2 to 3 days
Just gravel as the substrate with nothing else in the tank
Emperor 400
Rena XP4

I do the same routine every week. I perform about a 40 to 50 percent water change and I clean the mechanical filtration pads at the bottom of the XP4. I perform a gravel vac every water change and after vacuuming the entire gravel I take the end of the vac and shift and push all of the gravel around to pull everything up from under it. Usually this adds a bit of a cloudy mess to the tank but I drain most of the water while its cloudy and the cloudiness usually goes away about ten minutes after everything is filled up and running.

My only current theories are I tested the water wrong or when I shift and push up all the dirt and debris in the gravel that caused an ammonia spike. Other than that I'm hoping maybe somebody else could help me with what happened. I'm not exactly sure if my guesses are right and I know 0.5 PPM Ammonia isn't good especially with a higher PH. Any help would be appreciated and I'm going to test the parameters again tonight to get an update about what's going on in the tank. Thanks.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2009)

Hmm, maybe cleaning the filters out could be killing the bacteria, but, do you use chlorine remover?


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

The problem is when you move the gravel around it causes an ammonia spike because you disturbed all the crap in there along with some of the beneficial bacteria that lives in your gravel.

Also I wouldnt clean the pads in the filter every week and when you do clean them use a bucket of old water from your tank.


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## brianhellno (Jun 16, 2008)

For chlorine remover I use Prime as directed on the bottle and I fill the tank directly. I remember one time reading certain dechlorinators can give a false positive for ammonia but I think that was Ammo-Lock although I'm not sure. Also in the XP4 I only clean the mechanical filtration in the bottom basket. I do clean the sponges with tank water and the other three basets are filled with bio media which I leave alone. And yes, at this point I agree with you in thinking stirring all the crap up into the water column caused an instant ammonia spike. I just can't think of any other way ammonia could appear suddenly like that.


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## brianhellno (Jun 16, 2008)

Just did a little research and turns out prime can give a false positive for ammonia under certain circumstances. I guess I still won't be stirring everything up in the gravel anymore just to be safe but from what I've read I will have to wait at least 24 hours before I can get an accurate test.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

I only use prime and have never had a problem with reading right after a waterchange.

It's because your stirring up the gravel, I guarentee it.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Feefa said:


> I do the same routine* every week*. I perform about a *40 to 50 percent water change *and I *clean the mechanical filtration pads *at the bottom of the XP4. *I perform a gravel vac every water change *and after vacuuming the entire gravel I take the end of the vac and *shift and push all of the gravel around to pull everything up from under it.* Usually this adds a bit of a cloudy mess to the tank but *I drain most of the water while its cloudy* and the cloudiness usually goes away about ten minutes after everything is filled up and running.


Honestly, everything bolded are the main problems that causes your water perimeters to go out of wacked. You dont need to change water every week.. heck some of us dont do it for a month. 40-50% water change and draining the tank more because of cloudy water is TOO MUCH water to be taking out. You've disturbed established bacteria in your filter pads when cleaning thoughouly and when you shift too much gravel around.

Honestlly, you're doing more damage to your P's health rather than caring for them. Remember, P's are hardy fishes, they can survive through the toughest obsticles than most.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

What other media do you have in your XP4? You shouldn't have to clean those pads out every week. Only clean your filter when you notice reduced flow from the outlet. Either way though, cleaning the sponges shouldn't cause an ammonia spike as long as you have enough bio-media in there. Never happened to me.
If you're stirring up sh*t after you vacuum the gravel you didn't vacuum it good enough.


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## brianhellno (Jun 16, 2008)

Just an update I tested the water the next day and all the parameters went back to normal. I agree with you guys in stirring up the gravel probably released an ammonia spike. I won't be doing that anymore and I'll probably just do better gravel vacs and change less water from now on. Probably about 25 to 30 percent every two weeks. As far as the filter goes I only rinse out the mechanical filtration. I think I'm going to switch to doing this monthly because there really isn't enough crap in the pads to make it worth it. The other three baskets are filled with ceramic rings and the bio stars. I never touch them.

Also as far as the false positive goes with ammonia and prime:

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html

I'm not sure if my water has chloramines in it but if it does that could be a possible explanation for an ammonia reading. I believe I have a nessler test kit that won't give accurate readings after a dose of prime. Either way I learned a few things that I'm doing wrong and I can make some changes to hopefully care for my Ps better.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

I do a 40% waterchange every week and my levels are the same before and after the waterchange. I could probably wait two weeks also but I like to vacum the gravel so sh*t doesnt build up.

IMO if you're gonna go from weekly to bi-weekly waterchanges then I would stick to 40-50% changes or just do weekly 20-30%. If you cut back too much then things will build up and your tank wont be as clean giving you a whole bunch of new problems to worry about.

Best of luck brother


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Weekly water change of 30% rules and with gravel vac makes it beatiful and never had a problem. I agree with Feefa's old wrinkled ass cause knowledge is power and with much years under his belt comes a lot of knowledge.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Thanks rnr you're making me blush.

Most of what I learned I learned from p fury so to everyone just keep researching and asking questions, ALL the info you need is here for the taking.


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