# Piranhas are KILLERS.



## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

I have to make this topic...and I am going to keep it as civilized as possible...

I'm getting tired of all the bashing I have received recently...For wanting to find a cool way to watch my piranhas kill. A lot of people on this site seem to think that I'm sick...which is fine...But i have even been compared to Jeffery Dahmer...Talk about some idiotic comparisions...

Anyways...I have to explain this once and for all...PIRANHAS ARE KILLERS WITH KILLER INSTINTCS...THEY ARE VICIOUS...THEY EVEN KILL THEIR OWN KIND...etc...They are not fairy's and are not Gold Fish...They instinctly love chomping on fins and scales of fish...the raw flesh of mammals and even the scales and meat of amphibians...This is their natural diet. PERIOD. If I like to see them eat animals...SO WHAT? This is a Piranha...Wait...think about that again...ITS A GOSH DARN PIRANHA FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE...Yes...they are beautiful fish...But let's cut the crap...99% of the people that buy piranhas...is because of those AWESOME TEETH...and their killer behavior.

Alot of you on this site are hyprocrits...You think you're soo much better then me...Because I like to watch them eat a mouse, or a rat, whatever. I ask you...do you feed your piranhas any kind of meat or fish? Do you? How do you think those pieces of fish or meat got there? By magic? No....They were slaughtered for you...For you to buy and eat...So you...contribute to the slaughter of innocent animals...Just as much as I do...Welcome to the club.

How does me feeding my piranha's a live animal make this any different? I am not mutilating the animal in any way...I am using it to feed my piranhas...That is all...I don't sit there and cut it up...butcher it...Torture it...I drop it in...And let nature take its course.

Piranhas are predators and scavengers...They eat live food...Why do soo many people get all bent out of shape when a member wants to feed them somthing live? I think all you people that don't like the things I do are really into the wrong fish...I think you should stick the guppies, goldfish and maybe if you're lucky...KOI.

Leave the killer fish to grown adults...Like me...who can handle blood, violence and gore...and accept it as its in the piranhas nature to KILL, KILL, KILL, AGAIN AND AGAIN.


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

O boy you are in for it..

I really don't think this is neccessary but you do have a point. While 99% of the people probally did get into piranha for the killer instinct a lot of people like the preserve their look, etc.. I don't know, its up in the air, so good luck.

*hands you a flame sheild*


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

what ever, feed em what you want, i know first got

this fish cause of the reputation, but since i cycled my

tank they have rarly had any live food, for some

odd reason i dont really have the erg to feed a mouse

or something else, i have a few guppies in there now

but they dont seem to mind them to much.

its your choice but if you post it, a bit of thick skin

is need to recieve the comments, if you make a video

i probably watch it, who wouldnt, really?!

i dont think is right or wrong to feed it the mouse, just

unneccessary and messy.


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## Lex (Oct 17, 2004)

J2, you have to understand that the people on this board are VERY jumpy when someone does something out of the ordinary with their piranhas...it can be a very friendly board, but when something even remotely inhumane comes up, you get people coming out of the woodwork to put in their two cents which ultimately contributes to threads being locked, like your other one... its difficult to stay calm and civilized when people are relating you to the likes of jeffery dommer, but thats just how this board gets when such topics come up... as much as people like to try and be friendly here, alot of people tend to get childish in arguments... call it passion or pigheadedness, i dont know...

i may not have 8473984 posts like others, and i havnt been a member as long as some people here, but i do read this site alot as its very informative, and my comments are just based on what ive seen on these boards in the past... i'll probably take a few hits for speaking ill of the board, but this is just how i see it...

ps im not taking sides, i just think that the members need to realize that people can do what they want with their fish, and new member need to realize that if they're gonna post something taboo, if you will, you're gonna take some heat...

ibl.


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## Heartless-Dealer (Aug 3, 2003)

the funny thing is... alot of people dont realize that this very site was built off of a video of piranhas eating a mouse...


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## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

Well, I totally agree with you J2. If I could find a neighbors cat or dog running around my house, I'd probably throw it in my 300 with my Reds just to see what happened. Chances are, the cat would jump back out and scratch the crap outta me and the dog would just jump out and all my p's would have the crap scared out of them, but I would deffinately try it anyway. If the mice or rat or even small opposim cannot escape on it's own then nature has taken It's course. Survival of the fittest! And people will always be either For you or Against you, so why even let it get to you. Every time you make a new thread of any forum, your putting yourself out there for criticizm and disrespect as well as helpfulness and kindness. I wish you the best of luck with this thread, I think you're going to need it fellow Midwesterner!


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## Cobra (Sep 25, 2004)

Who cares if you feed your p's mice! Snake owners do it and post pics. 
I mean if u feed goldfish to your p's its the same thing, a live animal. Lets say if you dont feed your ps live food, somewhere in the amazon as we speak, a pack of reds are devouring a helpless bird that fell from a branch into the water. IMO the only reason that someone would get mad at u for feeding mice is a mouse lover lol!

BTW I personnally wouldnt do it because of the mess it makes, but not because I think its inhumaine.


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## Lector (May 6, 2005)

Preech on ..


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## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

Hey!!! I Love Mice!


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Cobra said:


> Who cares if you feed your p's mice! Snake owners do it and post pics.
> I mean if u feed goldfish to your p's its the same thing, a live animal. Lets say if you dont feed your ps live food, somewhere in the amazon as we speak, a pack of reds are devouring a helpless bird that fell from a branch into the water. IMO the only reason that someone would get mad at u for feeding mice is a mouse lover lol!
> 
> BTW I personnally wouldnt do it because of the mess it makes, but not because I think its inhumaine.
> [snapback]1156061[/snapback]​


I have to quote this...Becuase it is spot on...You speak the truth and understand my arguement.









And lest we not forget...Probably 90%...if not more of us...eat animals everyday...They may not be live...But at one time they were...Every cheeseburger, chicken breast, bacon strip, or fish fillet you eat...Were all slaughtered just for you.

As Cobra stated...Snakes eat mice all the time...Yet, if a snake owner feeds his snake a mouse...Is he branded sick, inhumane, or a homicidal cannibal? Nooo...But for some reason...if you feed a piranha a mouse or rat...You are the sickest human on the planet...And you a are a crappy fish keeper and people wish terrible things upon you.

I could even go into the arguement that in actuallity...we are all "inhumane" by keeping piranhas. They are kept in a tank...all their life...How is that not "inhuame?" I don't care if you take abseloute perfect care of them...They are still not FREE. The one thing that every animal craves, including us...FREEDOM. We all are inhumane in a way...And we all contribute to animals deaths in some form or fashion...So just think about this...before you start calling me out as a sick bastard...Look in the mirror and ask yourself...Am I really any better?


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## deezdrama (Jul 9, 2005)

If this is in regaurds to the post about a floating island for a mouse- then I think, although I am not an animal cruelist or anything close to one- I still think that it is a creative way to watch nature take its course. How can anyone say its cruel or sick? So throwing a mouse in the tank is not cruel or sick? At least if the mouse is on a island its not just suddenly dumped in to be food. And you could watch and see if the piranhas are smart enough to notice the mouse and then smart enough to plan an attack. Its just like studdying the behavior of p's in the wild except you have a much better view in your aquarium. Just my 2 cents - you can put em in your pocket or throw em on the ground


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## JPZ28 (Aug 10, 2004)

preach on J2


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I have to make this topic...and I am going to keep it as civilized as possible...
> 
> I'm getting tired of all the bashing I have received recently...For wanting to find a cool way to watch my piranhas kill. A lot of people on this site seem to think that I'm sick...which is fine...But i have even been compared to Jeffery Dahmer...Talk about some idiotic comparisions...
> 
> ...


in my opinion the best thing to do with this guy is ignore his post.

i always knew giving trailer trash internet access would be a bad thing


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## divine (Jan 3, 2005)

I don't think it is inhumane at all. People say to me "but you don't have to feed them live food, you just do it to watch." I think it is inhumane to raise a top preditor with a diet that includes no live food. Piranhas are evolved killers with basic instintincs that say "FOOD! EAT IT! NOW!" If you can't handle that maybe this kind of fish isn't for you.

We are preditors too. But because we buy our food people seem to have forgetten that we kill and eat the flesh of animals and that we are the TOP preditor. Veggitairians are crazy. I am going to go bbq some lamb now. So gooooooood.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I think all you people that don't like the things I do are really into the wrong fish...I think you should stick the guppies, goldfish and maybe if you're lucky...KOI.
> 
> Leave the killer fish to grown adults...Like me...who can handle blood, violence and gore...
> [snapback]1155943[/snapback]​


Oh please, what a self indulgent ******* you are :laugh:



((( J2 ))) said:


> I don't care if you take abseloute perfect care of them...They are still not FREE. The one thing that every animal craves, including us...FREEDOM.
> [snapback]1156083[/snapback]​


And that's stupid. Every animal does not crave freedom because most animals don't have the capacity to grasp a concept such as freedom. It's not uncommon for people with a lack of understanding of nature to try and humanize their animals and give them human characteristics but the idea that a fish doesn't like being "locked up" is ludicrous. Even relatively complex creatures like fish have no conception of themselves, freedom, or that anything different than a fish tank could even exist in the world. You're giving the fish way more credit than it deserves if you think it sits there and goes "I sure wish this tank was bigger or that it wasn't there at all and I was in a river" when it can't possible understand what it is (fish are not self aware), that it is in a tank, or that there is the possibility for something different and better out there.


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## suhongy (Aug 11, 2005)

patriot said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > I have to make this topic...and I am going to keep it as civilized as possible...
> ...










haha....but seriously..both of you


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## mauls (Mar 25, 2004)

Most people try to stay off feeder fish because of the diseases they cary, not because they think its wrong for a piranha to eat a feederfish. In the feeder tanks at lfs's theres like 300 rosie reds in a 20 gallon, with many deadfish in that tank, which will remain there for a long period of time. I dont want to feed my fish, low quality food thats often diseased. i'd rather feed mine krill, or other high protein foods. So i dont think anybody is bashing you for feeding live fish to your piranha's they just prolly wont recommend it. I give my cichlids live food about two or three times a month, and thats about it.

I've owned piranha's in the past and i fed them a mouse once out of a year, i had to do it just to see it happen. I'll never do it again, not because it was gross, because it wasn't. But because its such a pain in the ass to clean all that crap out, there was hair floating in my tank months after.

But ya man its your fish do whatever, feed them as you please and dont let anybody else tell you different.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

patriot said:


> in my opinion the best thing to do with this guy is ignore his post.
> 
> i always knew giving trailer trash internet access would be a bad thing
> [snapback]1156143[/snapback]​


Again...more people that can't form a decent arguement...So they resort to name calling...Its just sad.











elTwitcho said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > I think all you people that don't like the things I do are really into the wrong fish...I think you should stick the guppies, goldfish and maybe if you're lucky...KOI.
> ...


Here we go again...We can't have an intelligent arguement can we...Nope elBitcho has to resort to name calling again.











elTwitcho said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > I don't care if you take abseloute perfect care of them...They are still not FREE. The one thing that every animal craves, including us...FREEDOM.
> ...


Ok elBitcho...You know everything...Yet again...I'm not saying I know what a fish is thinking...or if they even think at all...Which they probably don't...But you and I both know...Having an open river and a natural habitat for a piranha is more humane...Then keeping them in a confined space...That was my point...They may not "crave" freedom...But I guarentee you they'd be a lot more comfortable in their natural enviroment...Then sitting in their tank...If you don't agree with this...Then you have a problem with your thought process...If you can't understand that having the freedom to swim wherever...To hide from other piranhas whenever needed...and to be free is not more humane...Then I guess you just don't think like the rest of us.

Why do you think everyone trys to get the biggest tank they can...To replicate a piranha's natural enviroment the best they can...To give the most freedom the owner can afford...But...If we all thought like you...We would just throw them in a box...with some water and call it a day...As long as they're living right? They don't care where they live or have the capacity to care...So who cares right? Your arguements with me are getting so miniscule its sickening...Why don't you find a real reason to start with me...instead of picking apart little details and trying to show off how smart you think you are.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Didnt I just tell everybody yesterday to mind the rules in regards to flaming individual members.

Forum rule#1

*1. Treat ALL MEMBERS with respect. I dont care if the person owns snails or has been dealing with piranhas for 30 years. EVERYONE is to be treated with respect here. Feel free to express different opinions and thoughts but it should ALWAYS be done in a respectful and positive manner. Absolutely no flaming, harrassing, bitch wars, etc.... If something is 'annoying' you about certain people or certain questions; my advice is to ignore it... *

This is really not acceptable in these hobby forums especially.....


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## "qickshot" (Apr 19, 2005)

J2.... you are one of my favorite members me and you think alike you can just put it into post better then i can


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > in my opinion the best thing to do with this guy is ignore his post.
> ...


I don't think you understood. Twitch was saying that while fish would obviously be more comfortable if given more space, they don't sit in the tank thinking "gee, i wish i was swimming in the amazon". And because they don't think about having more space to swim, they don't crave freedom.


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## furious piranha (Mar 22, 2005)

Heartless-Dealer said:


> the funny thing is... alot of people dont realize that this very site was built off of a video of piranhas eating a mouse...
> [snapback]1156041[/snapback]​


very true...i never would have became a member if it wasnt for that n i would still have my oscar n jack dempsey tank


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

I like cheese.

FRANKS AND BEANS FRANKS AND BEANS.

J2 I agree with you totally. I just think this Patriot guy has it out for you thats all. he just joined P-fury not to long ago and just came to pick fights its SOUNDS LIKE TO ME<- an opinion. Just ignore the negativity because we all know that everyone has checked out the vids and sayed thats so awesome how they just ripped that rat in half or something along them lines. To tell you the truth I did it last night and I loved it.


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

good post. if thats how you feel then good. it is nature, to some extent

im sure in the amazons mice and rats always fall into the lake..

mind you if rodents make it into the lake, they'll get slaughters in seconds, mainly cause piranhas are starving

so do you avoid feeding yoru piranhas for 2-3 weeks at a time cause thats nature too?

mice is one thing, but rats are another, unless you have a shoal of full grown P's


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## dutchfrompredator (Sep 26, 2004)

is there a way to do this island thing on a greater scale with child molesters and death row inmates? suddenly the idea has quite a lot of merit.


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## iam7617115 (Apr 13, 2005)

lets all get over it and feed our p's some beef heart.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Funny how this topic has turned into some attempting justify their wants by posting wrong information. Pygos are not killers, they are scavengers. If they were killers there would be nothing left alive in the Amazon. Do you even understand the difference between a killer, a predator, and a scavenger? If they were killers the natives couldnt swim or bath in the rivers. They couldnt fish in the rivers. These fish are opportunistic predators, keeping the rivers relatively clean by eating the injured, dead and dying. You would be much closer to feeding their natural diet if you give fish filets then a live healthy animal. To use the argument that these fish are killers simply shows that you have chosen to believe the misinformation that gets these fish banned in many states in the US. Perpetuating the myth of the killer fish giving further justification to banning them from our aquariums. Well done. This is exactly the attitude and argument that was used in the recent attempt to ban these fish in Oregon. 
And then you have someone talking about tossing in a dog or cat....and you really think these actions are so different than Dahmers? He got off on seeing the suffering of animals...what is so different? The only reason you could possibly do this is for the entertainment...which I find pathetic. It is certainly not for your fish. I assure you they could care less what gets you off....and I really doubt mice are a staple diet in the Amazon.
I used to think people get these fish because of the false reputation and then grow out of it when they being to really get into the study of these fish. I cant believe some of what I am reading in this thread.

This is a sad day for piranha keepers that really care about these fish.


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## jesterx626 (Jul 27, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Funny how this topic has turned into some attempting justify their wants by posting wrong information. Pygos are not killers, they are scavengers. If they were killers there would be nothing left alive in the Amazon. Do you even understand the difference between a killer, a predator, and a scavenger? If they were killers the natives couldnt swim or bath in the rivers. They couldnt fish in the rivers. These fish are opportunistic predators, keeping the rivers relatively clean by eating the injured, dead and dying. You would be much closer to feeding their natural diet if you give fish filets then a live healthy animal. To use the argument that these fish are killers simply shows that you have chosen to believe the misinformation that gets these fish banned in many states in the US. Perpetuating the myth of the killer fish giving further justification to banning them from our aquariums. Well done. This is exactly the attitude and argument that was used in the recent attempt to ban these fish in Oregon.
> And then you have someone talking about tossing in a dog or cat....and you really think these actions are so different than Dahmers? He got off on seeing the suffering of animals...what is so different? The only reason you could possibly do this is for the entertainment...which I find pathetic. It is certainly not for your fish. I assure you they could care less what gets you off....and I really doubt mice are a staple diet in the Amazon.
> I used to think people get these fish because of the false reputation and then grow out of it when they being to really get into the study of these fish. I cant believe some of what I am reading in this thread.
> 
> ...


Amen.


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

"They couldnt fish in the rivers. These fish are opportunistic predators, keeping the rivers relatively clean by eating the injured, dead and dying. You would be much closer to feeding their natural diet if you give fish filets then a live healthy animal."

on the nose grosse


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## Cobra (Sep 25, 2004)

Very good point, they arent killers as J2 states.


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## Cobra (Sep 25, 2004)

And who is Dahmers???


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

Jeffrey Dahmer is a ''famous'' serial killer and cannibal


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Than why have the piranha feeding download section that everyone has downloaded and watched them tear apart mice and rats? Dont lie about it either I have watched every single video and was like thats cool, and I know you probably were too. Why people Why? If their is a Lord out there please let someone answer my question please?

I do agree with Double G (Gross Gurke) that they are scavengers but gosh darn im sure not his daddy and I doubt any of you are either so unless you are his Daddy leave the man be in peace or woman if ya or sheman or whatever the case may be.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Slim said:


> Than why have the piranha feeding download section that everyone has downloaded and watched them tear apart mice and rats? Dont lie about it either I have watched every single video and was like thats cool, and I know you probably were too. Why people Why? If their is a Lord out there please let someone answer my question please?


We (the staff) have actually had many conversations about this section...and we did remove most of the videos we once had. It basically comes down to one thing.....Are the videos educational...or are they senseless violence. We happen to think they do have educational value. The only videos I have watched...which I think add the most value...are the non-live feedings. I have not and dont intend to watch any of the live feeding videos. Not my thing. The non-live feeding videos are more natural than any rat video imo. And yes...this site did form because of a feeding video...but I like to think we have come a long way since then.


> I do agree with Double G (Gross Gurke) that they are scavengers but gosh darn im sure not his daddy and I doubt any of you are either so unless you are his Daddy leave the man be in peace or woman if ya or sheman or whatever the case may be.


I think when you start a thread like this....you are inviting opinions....positive and negative. You cant just have it one way. Thats the basic idea of a forum. And really...with as much misinformation being posted as the basis for his argument...how can people not at least point that out his argument is flawed.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Funny how this topic has turned into some attempting justify their wants by posting wrong information. Pygos are not killers, they are scavengers. If they were killers there would be nothing left alive in the Amazon. Do you even understand the difference between a killer, a predator, and a scavenger? If they were killers the natives couldnt swim or bath in the rivers. They couldnt fish in the rivers. These fish are opportunistic predators, keeping the rivers relatively clean by eating the injured, dead and dying. You would be much closer to feeding their natural diet if you give fish filets then a live healthy animal. To use the argument that these fish are killers simply shows that you have chosen to believe the misinformation that gets these fish banned in many states in the US. Perpetuating the myth of the killer fish giving further justification to banning them from our aquariums. Well done. This is exactly the attitude and argument that was used in the recent attempt to ban these fish in Oregon.
> And then you have someone talking about tossing in a dog or cat....and you really think these actions are so different than Dahmers? He got off on seeing the suffering of animals...what is so different? The only reason you could possibly do this is for the entertainment...which I find pathetic. It is certainly not for your fish. I assure you they could care less what gets you off....and I really doubt mice are a staple diet in the Amazon.
> I used to think people get these fish because of the false reputation and then grow out of it when they being to really get into the study of these fish. I cant believe some of what I am reading in this thread.
> 
> ...


^^Damn GREAT post.

J2,
The other post was closed, why not let it just die? Feed your fish what you please but dont try and get around the fact this is 100% for your enjoyment by stating they are killers, or they get ANY benefit for them. This is purly so you can watch a live animal be slaughtered. Also, I never called you Dahmer, so if your gonna quote me, please do so properly.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Funny how this topic has turned into some attempting justify their wants by posting wrong information. Pygos are not killers, they are scavengers. If they were killers there would be nothing left alive in the Amazon. Do you even understand the difference between a killer, a predator, and a scavenger? If they were killers the natives couldnt swim or bath in the rivers. They couldnt fish in the rivers. These fish are opportunistic predators, keeping the rivers relatively clean by eating the injured, dead and dying. You would be much closer to feeding their natural diet if you give fish filets then a live healthy animal. To use the argument that these fish are killers simply shows that you have chosen to believe the misinformation that gets these fish banned in many states in the US. Perpetuating the myth of the killer fish giving further justification to banning them from our aquariums. Well done. This is exactly the attitude and argument that was used in the recent attempt to ban these fish in Oregon.
> [snapback]1156360[/snapback]​


I guess you didn't read my whole post:


((( J2 ))) said:


> *Piranhas are predators and scavengers*...They eat live food...Why do soo many people get all bent out of shape when a member wants to feed them somthing live?
> [snapback]1155943[/snapback]​


The point is GG...I know that Piranha's aren't as vicious as Hollywood would have you beleive...I'm not prepuating anything but the truth...The truth is that a Piranha DOES AND WILL KILL...Although yes...They would rather attack an injured animal over a healthy one...They will still KILL A HEALTHY ANIMAL...I have seen it on documetary's and I have seen it for myself...If you don't think a piranha, which will kill a living animal, does not make them a killer...Then I guess your brain uses a differnt form of logic.

And just be clear...Piranhas are banned in certain states because YES, THEY ARE KILLERS...They have a possibilty of surviving the tempatures of those states if abandoned by their owner and thrown into a lake...Without a natural predator...The piranha will flurish and reak havoc on the fish population of said lake...You will have nothing but piranhas in the lake because they will KILL all the other fish...That's why they're banned...Not because of people like me.











Grosse Gurke said:


> And then you have someone talking about tossing in a dog or cat....and you really think these actions are so different than Dahmers? He got off on seeing the suffering of animals...what is so different? The only reason you could possibly do this is for the entertainment...which I find pathetic. It is certainly not for your fish. I assure you they could care less what gets you off....and I really doubt mice are a staple diet in the Amazon.
> [snapback]1156360[/snapback]​


You are really gonna go out on this limb and compare me to Dahmer...You honestly think that what I do can even be compared to a guy who murdered human beings and ate them? You have honestly lost it brother...If we went by your logic...At least 50% of the members on here right now are going to end up committing murder and eating the corpses...By your logic...Riiiight.









The thing you don't seem to understand is that Dahmer mutalated and tortured the animals HIMSELF...HE CUT THEM, RIPPED THEM APART AND WATCHED THEM SUFFER...I DON'T DO THAT...I simply feed a PIRANHA, WHICH EATS LIVE FOODS LIKE FISH AND MICE...The piranhas do all the killing not me...I don't sit there and torture them...I simply feed my fish a living animal...WHICH IS WHAT A PIRANHA EATS...AND YES I ENJOY WATCHING A PIRANHA KILL. Its a part of nature, and I have learned to embrace it for what it is...AWESOME...Why do you think they have made soo many documentarys on animal planet an national geographic about predators in the wild killing...BECAUSE ITS WHAT PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE...Whether it be a Lion tearing apart a Buffalo...Or a Crocodile chomping up a zebra at a wateringhole...People like to see predators KILL...And YES I am one of them. Just because I watch it in my house...live...instead of watching it on tv...That makes me Dahmer huh...Again, your logic is spot-on there GG.











Grosse Gurke said:


> I used to think people get these fish because of the false reputation and then grow out of it when they being to really get into the study of these fish. I cant believe some of what I am reading in this thread.
> 
> This is a sad day for piranha keepers that really care about these fish.
> [snapback]1156360[/snapback]​


The saddest part is...That you have totally misjudged why I keep piranhas...Its more then just that "wow, they are killers." attitude...Piranhas are one of the most beautiful and exotic fish...I admire them in all facets...From the way they behave...To the way that they eat...I have learned soo much about Piranhas from this site...and I am still learning today...But one thing I know for sure...Is that if you throw any living food, HEALTHY AS CAN BE...in a tank of starving piranhas...You're gonna have a DEAD carcass.


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## kooken (Jan 20, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Funny how this topic has turned into some attempting justify their wants by posting wrong information. Pygos are not killers, they are scavengers. If they were killers there would be nothing left alive in the Amazon. Do you even understand the difference between a killer, a predator, and a scavenger? If they were killers the natives couldnt swim or bath in the rivers. They couldnt fish in the rivers. These fish are opportunistic predators, keeping the rivers relatively clean by eating the injured, dead and dying. You would be much closer to feeding their natural diet if you give fish filets then a live healthy animal. To use the argument that these fish are killers simply shows that you have chosen to believe the misinformation that gets these fish banned in many states in the US. Perpetuating the myth of the killer fish giving further justification to banning them from our aquariums. Well done. This is exactly the attitude and argument that was used in the recent attempt to ban these fish in Oregon.
> And then you have someone talking about tossing in a dog or cat....and you really think these actions are so different than Dahmers? He got off on seeing the suffering of animals...what is so different? The only reason you could possibly do this is for the entertainment...which I find pathetic. It is certainly not for your fish. I assure you they could care less what gets you off....and I really doubt mice are a staple diet in the Amazon.
> I used to think people get these fish because of the false reputation and then grow out of it when they being to really get into the study of these fish. I cant believe some of what I am reading in this thread.
> 
> ...


Nicely stated. Thank you.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> *Piranhas are predators and scavengers*...They eat live food...Why do soo many people get all bent out of shape when a member wants to feed them somthing live?
> [snapback]1155943[/snapback]​


Did I say I was upset that you wanted to feed live? I dont think so. I could care less. What I object to is your attempt to justify feeding live by saying that is what these fish do. You are wrong.



> The point is GG...I know that Piranha's aren't as vicious as Hollywood would have you beleive...I'm not prepuating anything but the truth...The truth is that a Piranha DOES AND WILL KILL...Although yes...They would rather attack an injured animal over a healthy one...They will still KILL A HEALTHY ANIMAL...I have seen it on documetary's and I have seen it for myself...If you don't think a piranha, which will kill a living animal, does not make them a killer...Then I guess your brain uses a differnt form of logic.


There is a huge difference between a documentary on these fish and how they act in the wild..and in your tank. Do you really think putting a rat on a "island" in your tank will simulate nature...







...I got to get some of what you smoking. Im sure piranha have been known to prey on a healthy animal when they are starving...but other than that...I doubt it. They may nip animals..but outright attack an animal for the sake of killing it....Never happen. 


> And just be clear...Piranhas are banned in certain states because YES, THEY ARE KILLERS...They have a possibilty of surviving the tempatures of those states if abandoned by their owner and thrown into a lake...Without a natural predator...The piranha will flurish and reak havoc on the fish population of said lake...You will have nothing but piranhas in the lake because they will KILL all the other fish...That's why they're banned...Not because of people like me.


Wrong again. Please explain to all the members from Washington and New York your theory of them surviving and flourishing in their waters. And how they will destroy the ecosystem. Go ahead....Tell them how.
The fact is that piranhas could survive a winter in basically the very southern parts of the southern states. That is it. Other than that the water gets too cold. It might not kill them but they will not be able to function and will starve. And again, your logic is very flawed. You dont think a 8"-12" fish wouldnt have any predators in US lakes? There are many fish in these lakes that would love to snap up a piranha for a meal. Your thinking is very simplistic.
The reason these fish are banned in states where they could not survive is because of the hype that people like you perpetuate. You yelling that these fish are killers...even though that is completely inaccurate...just gives the agencies that want these fish outlawed ammunition. Why do they want to ban them in Oregon? They cant survive the winter so they would be no threat to the wildlife or people. It is because people are afraid of them and you know why... because people like you are so happy fuel the myth that these fish are killers.


> Grosse Gurke said:
> 
> 
> > And then you have someone talking about tossing in a dog or cat....and you really think these actions are so different than Dahmers? He got off on seeing the suffering of animals...what is so different? The only reason you could possibly do this is for the entertainment...which I find pathetic. It is certainly not for your fish. I assure you they could care less what gets you off....and I really doubt mice are a staple diet in the Amazon.
> ...


Im sorry...was I talking about you? I believe the person talking about tossing in a dog or cat was your friend brogers. So...please...read and comprehend my entire post before you comment on logic. I think you will find that in the hour it took you to write this post....most have agreed with what I said.



> The saddest part is...That you have totally misjudged why I keep piranhas...Its more then just that "wow, they are killers." attitude...Piranhas are one of the most beautiful and exotic fish...I admire them in all facets...From the way they behave...To the way that they eat...I have learned soo much about Piranhas from this site...and I am still learning today...But one thing I know for sure...Is that if you throw any living food, HEALTHY AS CAN BE...in a tank of starving piranhas...You're gonna have a DEAD carcass.


You dont understand. I couldnt care less why you keep piranhas. Beautiful, exotic...blah blah blah. All I see is some guy that wants to get off by seeing a mouse suffer at the hands of his fish...and trying to justify it by saying it is the nature of these fish. You are wrong...but like I said...I dont care what you do...just dont try to make it sound like a noble cause you are embarking on...because in the end...you are simply doing this for your entertainment..not your fish's.


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

J2...take sometime off and educate yourself about what you know about piranhas...


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

You come out in this thread firing at the hip. Keep them for whatever reason you want, I could care less. But, to me it's painfully obvious you love the carnage they are capable of in an enclosed and controlled environment. It's not even fair to compare their habits in the wild to their habits in nature. 
I'm a firm believer that they are scavengers first and predators second. Predators only when they need to be (for example, in a drying oxbow where they are stranded).



> They eat live food...Why do soo many people get all bent out of shape when a member wants to feed them somthing live?


Because it's unnecessary in a controlled environment. Not to mention it's a brutal way for an animal to die. Not everyone wants to see that. But, hell... not everyone here respects animal life and thinks nothing of seeing one animal take apart another for fun.


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## mauls (Mar 25, 2004)

damn, i've learned more in this one post than i have in a whilie on this site (about piranhas) GG is kicking some ass haha


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## weighates (Jul 6, 2005)

I got news for all you guys and plz feel free to counter my argument. You wanna see natures perfect killing machine??? All you gotta do is look in the mirror. We've killed soooo many species to the brink of extiction it isnt even funny. We are the killers and we dont always do it for food. I am not talking about animals that have become endangered because of deforestation either. I am talking about animals like whales, tazmanian tiger, elephants, buffalo, wolves. We basically killed these creatures cause it would give us some miniscual benefit (like oil). So whos the sicko? The guy that feeds his piranha a rat or the guy that has 1,500 cattle nose to ass on a acre of land living in there own sh*t feeding them the flesh and bones of their fathers (I know this is illegal now due to mad cow diesease but we did it for years and the only reason it ever changed is cause it affected us). So I personally dont t hink ANYONE here has the right to critisize j2 for his views. And for everyone that thinks all the stuff I stated above has nothing to do with him or her........ BULLSHIT!!!!! You all buy the products!!!!! So plz stop the lecture!

Chris


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

I agree with everyone. EVERYONE IS RIGHT. THAT ROCKS. I have feed my piranha a rat before and mice, yes they were dead and at the store, but someone had to kill them to put them in the package for food for this sort of thing. If its inhumane why sell it for us to buy for this use. I would never feed mine a live rodent/mammal of any kind but isnt it on the same lines of feeding your P's live fish? If im wrong in a sense correct me. And weighates I agrre with you also and J2 and Double G. I have feed mine a 17 inch catfish once alive, is that bad? I do think he started this post for an argument since it did not get finished in the last one about the island which wasnt even meant for that but whatever. I just want you all to know that I LOVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU.


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## ronzz (Oct 26, 2004)

i feed dead food live can be messy


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

I could argue with Gross Gurke all day...on alot of the stuff he said...But I'm not going to...Because it will never end...However...I am still gonna say with resounding authority...PIRANHAS ARE KILLERS, which was and still is my original arguement.

Grosse Gurke, you have still yet to make a convinving argument as to why a person would say that they are NOT killers. In fact...This very own site has a pinned topic The final word on what you can keep with piranhas Here's a direct quote from "Know-It-All" elTwitcho:



elTwitcho said:


> There is NOTHING alive that will work with your piranhas forever. Even the fish that are most likely to survive have a low rate of survival, probably less than 50% make it past the first month. Do not add fish to your piranha tank expecting them to survive because they won't. Maybe for a little while, probably not for a year but it's possible, but eventually you'll have dead fish to contend with.
> [snapback]729091[/snapback]​


Just reading this quote...you will see simply...That Piranhas ARE KILLERS...It is their nature to kill...Wether for food or due to aggression...protecting terroritory, etc. You don't have to be a genius to figure it out.

I ENJOY WATCHING THEM KILL...I will be the first to admit that...But my whole point of this topic, was to make people aware...That BY NATURE...Piranhas are killers...And that by me feeding them live food...It is no different then what is going on in the amazon right now.

That these people are all hypocrits because human beings as a whole are the biggest predators and slaughters of innocent animals on the planet...Animals are slaughtered daily to feed you...me and everyone else...But its not ok for my piranha to eat a live animal right? Why, because I enjoy watching it? I enjoy nature...I enjoy everything about it...From watching the animals behave in their enviroment...How they live their everyday life...To their feedings...My point was that Predators Kill...The people on this site need to stop bashing me and people like me...and wake up to the reality at hand.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Grosse Gurke, you have still yet to make a convinving argument as to why a person would say that they are NOT killers. In fact...This very own site has a pinned topic The final word on what you can keep with piranhas Here's a direct quote from "Know-It-All" elTwitcho:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


once again, that is in a controlled invironment

there IS nothing that will last with your piranhas IN A TANK. thats way different then in the wild

out in the wild there are many fish that dart around the "mighty" piranhas, and dont get scathed at all

i always try and stay outta these arguements, but dammit J2, your pushin it


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I could argue with Gross Gurke all day...on alot of the stuff he said...But I'm not going to...Because it will never end...However...I am still gonna say with resounding authority...PIRANHAS ARE KILLERS, which was and still is my original arguement.
> 
> Grosse Gurke, you have still yet to make a convinving argument as to why a person would say that they are NOT killers. In fact...This very own site has a pinned topic The final word on what you can keep with piranhas Here's a direct quote from "Know-It-All" elTwitcho:
> 
> ...


Because humans slaughter animals does not make us predators. Maybe we descended from predators but humans don't have to hunt food to survive. Again you are wrong. If people are bashing you there is a correct way of going about things. And yours is not the right way.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Tibs said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > Grosse Gurke, you have still yet to make a convinving argument as to why a person would say that they are NOT killers. In fact...This very own site has a pinned topic The final word on what you can keep with piranhas Here's a direct quote from "Know-It-All" elTwitcho:
> ...


I'm pushing it??? What...the idea that a Piranha is a killer...And that it does hunt and kill animals in the wild? To you this is pushing it? I'm sorry...That I'm not brainwashed like all of you guys...and don't kiss all the mods butts just to be pc...I tell the truth and stand up for what it is true.

Anyways you are telling me now...That Piranhas don't kill in the wild because its not controlled...They just kill in aquariums...I guess everything I've seen and read about piranhas is wrong...They don't ever kill in the wild...Just in aquariums...I got it now.









My point was...that piranhas are aggressive and will try to kill and will kill anything that comes near it...Which would definitely make them a killer.

Thats the whole reason those fish do "dart" past them...Otherwise...They might be lunch. Get it?



jerry_plakyda said:


> Because humans slaughter animals does not make us predators. Maybe we descended from predators but humans don't have to hunt food to survive. Again you are wrong. If people are bashing you there is a correct way of going about things. And yours is not the right way.
> [snapback]1156840[/snapback]​


Lets look at this for a moment shall we...
Define predator: An organism that lives by preying on other organisms. 
Define preying: To hunt, catch, or eat as prey:

So if you look at...YES we are the top predator...We do hunt catch and eat prey...Maybe not soo much hunt...Because we'd rather just raise them to be slaughtered as prey.

Again...You are just nitpicking my arguement...Instead of agreeing that we all as humans contribute to the slaughter of innocent animals..Which I'm sure you do too..Unless you're a vegan...And I doubt you are...But if you are...Good for you.


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## killerbee (Aug 18, 2004)

big deal







do what you wish, its your fish. Personally i don't feed mice but i have fed live gold fish, cichlids, ghost shrimp, and koi. Its not that i don't condone it, its just that i'm to lazy to clean all the mess up :rasp: If u want to call me sick so be it, i don't care what others opinions are about me. Hell, i even have most of these videos saved to my computer. (Probably like most of us here







)

Lately i don't feed live fish anymore just because its cheaper for me to buy better and healthier foods at a grocery store. In order to see a good feeding frenzy on some live fish it has to be a bigger fish because of the size of my "killers". And they are usually pretty expensive v.s. grocery store. So, instead i watch their feeding frenzies on tilapia filet, catfish fillet, and raw shrimp. Although, my staple diet for my guys are shrimp and tilapia.....but they prefer shrimp over anything. just watch my videos in my sig.









So don't worry about what people say J2, its your fish do as u wish. Post videoes as most of us enjoy them and if someone does not then maybe they shouldn't click on the link


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Tibs said:
> 
> 
> > ((( J2 ))) said:
> ...


yep thats about it, it would be pretty rare for a piranha to go ot a KILL a live healthy fish for no reason at all

J2, you just gotta realize piranhas are not mindless killing beasts

there are much better pred's out there then piranhas

they are scavengers, kinda like wolves of the sea, generally preying on the dead, sick, and each other

serras are even worse scavengers, they follow other fish and eat off there scraps


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I could argue with Gross Gurke all day...on alot of the stuff he said...But I'm not going to...Because it will never end...However...I am still gonna say with resounding authority...PIRANHAS ARE KILLERS, which was and still is my original arguement.
> 
> Grosse Gurke, you have still yet to make a convinving argument as to why a person would say that they are NOT killers. In fact...This very own site has a pinned topic The final word on what you can keep with piranhas Here's a direct quote from "Know-It-All" elTwitcho:
> 
> ...


You cant argue with me because your arguement is based on myth..not reality.

Im done wasteing my time with someone that doesnt understand these fish at all....and will refuse to listen.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > I could argue with Gross Gurke all day...on alot of the stuff he said...But I'm not going to...Because it will never end...However...I am still gonna say with resounding authority...PIRANHAS ARE KILLERS, which was and still is my original arguement.
> ...


I know what I have seen Gross Gurke...On tv and in my own aquarium...What I have seen is not a myth...I'm sorry that I haven't been able to travel to the amazon to know first hand that piranhas are killers...But I have seen and read enough to know what I am talking about.

I am listening to you...But you refuse to admit that a piranha does KILL other animals...I mean its like you are afraid to admit or something.



Tibs said:


> it would be pretty rare for a piranha to go ot a KILL a live healthy fish for no reason at all
> 
> J2, you just gotta realize piranhas are not mindless killing beasts
> 
> ...


I admit that piranhas are not efficient killers...and are not the hollywood mindles killing beasts that they are portayed as.

However...When starving...A Piranha will tear apart anything that drops into its waters...I have seen that on national geographic and in my own aquarium...Even when not starving that is.

My question to you Gross Gurke and Tibs is...If something kills other animals...Does that not make them a killer? It is in a piranha's nature to attack other fish and anything that comes near it...Fin nipping is attacking isn't it? Even if a fish is injured...Its is not dead yet...A piranha will come by and finish it off, thus resulting in killing it.

Why can't you just admit that you're wrong and that piranhas are killers...Maybe not hollywood killers...But they DO KILL nonetheless.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

I disagree with your definition of a killer. A killer is someone who has the intent to kill.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I admit that piranhas are not efficient killers...and are not the hollywood mindles killing beasts that they are portayed as.
> 
> However...When starving...A Piranha will tear apart anything that drops into its waters...I have seen that on national geographic and in my own aquarium...Even when not starving that is.
> 
> ...


From my post earlier


> Im sure piranha have been known to prey on a healthy animal when they are starving...but other than that...I doubt it.


But it is not in their nature to attack other fish and anything that comes near it. Why do you think they run from you when you put your hand in to clean the tank? Is that the act of a killer? They do that because they are prey as much a preditor.  Killers dont view themselves as prey...how can they...anything that comes near it is killed right? Cant you see that you cant have it both ways? You cant be some bad ass group of killer fish and be prey to a differnt fish. If they were this killer fish you want them to be, there would be no other fish that could prey on them. They wouldnt run from your hand but attack anything that goes in their territory....right?


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Just close it again Double G. So we can start over again.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

well just my two cents but after taking the five minutes to read this stupid thread this has got to be one of the lamest f^cking disscussions.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

jerry_plakyda said:


> I disagree with your definition of a killer. A killer is someone who has the intent to kill.
> [snapback]1156899[/snapback]​










exactly


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

Slim said:


> Just close it again Double G. So we can start over again.
> [snapback]1156916[/snapback]​


I agree but befor u close it i woul dlike to mkae one last statement. J2 u are both right and wrong. Piranhas are not killers. i think to kill is to injure, hurt, decapitate and anything for the fun of it. Like the natives they killed buffalos. But they used eveyrsingle part of the buffalo, form the skins as clothing to the bones as weapons. They are not simply killing the buffalo but they are SURVIVING. In order to survive u must kill. So piranhas are not killers but more like "kilers", if u understand. They must kill to survive. And J2 u are entirely right about humans being predators. Who do u think is always on top of the food chain...US. We are usually always on the top of the food chain and we are predators. We have to hunt other organsms to survive.

"But it is not in their nature to attack other fish and anything that comes near it. Why do you think they run from you when you put your hand in to clean the tank? Is that the act of a killer? They do that because they are prey as much a preditor. Killers dont view themselves as prey...how can they...anything that comes near it is killed right? Cant you see that you cant have it both ways? You cant be some bad ass group of killer fish and be prey to a differnt fish. If they were this killer fish you want them to be, there would be no other fish that could prey on them. They wouldnt run from your hand but attack anything that goes in their territory....right?"

Double G is entirely right about wat he said. Piranhas dont kill just for the fun of it they kill in order to survive. And yes they are both predator and prey. So many thing can hunt a Piranha's. Weather it be a bigger fish, thier own kind or the ppl living in the amozon.

And lets all stop fighting. Let J2 do wat he wants with his fish. As long as thier alive he can say that they are perfectly fine with wat hes doing to them. And J2, who cares wat they say ignore them becaus ein my opinion everyone is right. And so plz lets stop this madness


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

jerry_plakyda said:


> I disagree with your definition of a killer. A killer is someone who has the intent to kill.
> [snapback]1156899[/snapback]​


Maybe you'll agree with the true definition straight from a dictionary:

Killer = One that kills, someone who causes the death of a person or animal.

So by definition...A piranha IS a killer.



Grosse Gurke said:


> But it is not in their nature to attack other fish and anything that comes near it. Why do you think they run from you when you put your hand in to clean the tank? Is that the act of a killer? They do that because they are prey as much a preditor. Killers dont view themselves as prey...how can they...anything that comes near it is killed right? Cant you see that you cant have it both ways? You cant be some bad ass group of killer fish and be prey to a differnt fish. If they were this killer fish you want them to be, there would be no other fish that could prey on them. They wouldnt run from your hand but attack anything that goes in their territory....right?
> [snapback]1156905[/snapback]​


Gross, You are making vaild points...And I agree with a lot of which you are saying...Piranhas are skittish and afraid...Which yes isn't true killer behavior...But they are also vicious and once they set their sites on prey...They will kill it...That's the thing...Piranhas do have it both ways...Because they are Oppurtunistic predators and prey all at the same time.

They eat wild living animals...in the wild...And I'm tired of being bashed because I do that in my own aquarium...I stated "Piranhas are Killers." As a broad statement...That they kill in their natural habitat...So let's stop the madness of bashing me...My intent was NOT to advertise piranhas as vicious mindless killing beasts that will attack anything and everything in the world...I was just trying to make a simple statement to all those people to that call what I do wrong...And make them realize that I am doing nothing but feeding a piranha, which does eat live food in the wild.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> jerry_plakyda said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree with your definition of a killer. A killer is someone who has the intent to kill.
> ...


:nod:entirely right

I think J2 is trying to say that piranhas are some sort of '"killer" but not a killer like hanibal lector. Or if you've ever seen the movie manhunter "the toothfairy".


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Who is bashing you j2? I havent seen it in this thread. Just because I dont agree with what you are saying isnt bashing. I already said a couple times I dont care what you do with your fish..feed them live or not...doesnt matter to me. What I dissagree with is how you view your fish.

And you left out a small but important piece from your defenition....The defenition is actually:


> *someone *who causes the death of a person or animal


So by defenition they can not be a killer. What they can be is a predator:


> any animal that lives by preying on other animals


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Who is bashing you j2? I havent seen it in this thread. Just because I dont agree with what you are saying isnt bashing. I already said a couple times I dont care what you do with your fish..feed them live or not...doesnt matter to me. What I dissagree with is how you view your fish.
> [snapback]1156967[/snapback]​


Gross Gurke...I know you haven't bashed me...And no one has bashed me in this thread...I made this topic for the people that bashed me about my island idea...and for those who call it "inhumane" to feed piranhas live animals as food.



Grosse Gurke said:


> And you left out a small but important piece from your defenition....The defenition is actually:
> 
> 
> > *someone *who causes the death of a person or animal
> ...


I actually did edit my post and put that last part in...before you posted...as I knew you would put "someone" making the definition invalid towards a piranha. But you overlook that the true definition still remains...One that kills. There is a killer whale...how can a whale be defined as a killer if it is an aminal? Or if you have a rabid dog that attacks and kills anything that comes near it...It cannot be defined as a killer because its not a person?

This is again is nitpicking and arguement..."One that kills" is the 1st definition listed for a reason...Because it applies as the cardinal rule of what a killer is.

I'm not going to argue with you on this anymore...You have your view and I have mine...I think I have made my point and I say *close this thread*as I am finished with it.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Maybe you should save your money your wasting on rats and buy your 'loved' pets a larger tank?


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

maybe people that have just joined P-Fury and have no clue what exactly they are talking about shouldnt post on the subject.

Ex0dus
Patriot


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Just because I found a forum has no bearing on my knowledge... 
And the fact you think im some other guy is moronic. Have a good one slim


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Ex0dus said:


> Maybe you should save your money your wasting on rats and buy your 'loved' pets a larger tank?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you always have to be a smart-ass? Seriously man...You don't know sh*t about me...So just stfu...My piranha's are very happy in their tank.

If you are referencing my video...that is not my current tank...That is my old 29 gal...The footprint on my current tank is that of a 55 gal.

So please stop with your wise ass comments.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

I woudlnt dare watch one of your lil videos bud. Its in your sig. "40gal long" Kinda small, show em some love and get em a bigger tank







No need to be a smart ass tho, watching you get pwnt left and right in this thread was enough enjoyment for me for the day. Have a good one


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Just relax man... Your so conmcerned about immitating nature... I just figured you coudl start with a larger tank is all.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Closed by request...


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