# Why do people start making threats



## ReDraGon-> (May 24, 2004)

Hey guys iv havnt been on here in ahwile but i was just on Youtube and i just saw the arowana feeding video, (yes it was an arrow being fed to reds)...and it made me go hmmm

Ok so this Topic has probably already been covered many times but i wanted to know more about why u cichlid lovers get soo heated up when u see a cichlid *like my oscar vid) getting eaten by piranhas?

I mean if we OWN piranhas and if the owner/s of the piranha decide to feed it a fish whether its a cichlid or a goldfish, or even a mice/rat. Then happen to film their piranhas eat , why do u guys have such mixed feedback?

example.... Xenons Mouse video (the video that started this kick ass forum) the replies are

- Great Video !!
-That is a great vid!! I love watching it, and it gets better everytime I see it.
-i have seen this vid. so many time, but still a great mouse vid. 
-very nice sweet vid

My video (oscar ownage)
-. Videos such as this one do nothing to help promote the hobby and are only harmful. 
-Waste of a good oscar on those ugly fish.. 
-i think the oscer was to big for food. im okay using feeders because there eaten in like a minute so its different than them eating something bigger than them

the arowana feeding video
-I hope u Die 
-I will find u and i will Kill u
-etc. etc $%*$&# #&$(# etc.

goldfish feeding videos
-sweet video
-man the goldie got smoked!!
-omg nice reds 
-sucks being that fish , Sweet video!!!

So i was wondering why do the same people post up how much they liked the mouse video and then post up about how a loser a person is to film a cichhlid getting eaten? I mean alot people own mice and rats as pets too and dont count out the millions of people who own a goldfish (i think most of us owned a goldfish as our 1st fish) but do I get all heated up and threaten people when i see a beautiful comet get taken down by a school of reds?

I was just wondering a LIVE feeding is a LIVE feeding nothing more, so why do some poeple think its OK to feed mice and goldfish but its bad to feed them other than the regular meal? its My money and its My fish so what if i decide to feed my reds a flowerhorn that i got for free?

Then u have all these other posts about "man if your reds were in my tank against my cichlid they would get owned " "reds are pussies try your 1 of your pygos against my snakehead"

In the wild Piranhas eat and get eaten, yes a glass tank isnt the wild but if someone decides to throw a cichlid or a mouse they got into a tank with a school of Ps and decide to film it, that doesent make them a Loser or a better person they are just trying to feed his fish!!


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## Buckman (Jan 10, 2007)

people actually like oscars. feeders just suck. case closed


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> ReDraGon-> Posted Today, 06:48 AM
> Hey guys iv havnt been on here in ahwile but i was just on Youtube and i just saw the arowana feeding video, (yes it was an arrow being fed to reds)...and it made me go hmmm
> 
> Ok so this Topic has probably already been covered many times but i wanted to know more about why u cichlid lovers get soo heated up when u see a cichlid *like my oscar vid) getting eaten by piranhas?
> ...


3 words, Sensationalism and Ethics.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

I know exactly what you are saying.....it's all good when those guys want to make a feeding vid, but god forbid you do the same. I mean....yeah, feeding an arrow is pretty stupid, due to the fact that is not a very good fish to use for that purpose, but hey, whatever you want to do is your business. I used to feed mice to my shoal of reds and cariba. They loved it, but knowing how bad it screwed up a tank, I quit doing it. I don't mind feeding vids IF they are reasonable. Mouse vids are reasonable, they get eaten in seconds, so do feeders like JD's and convicts. BUT, there is a point when you should think about what you are wanting them to feed on. If it is too big, don't use it. That is my only beef with feeding vids. Other than that, do as you please. You have to realize why everyone on here gives differant responses to differant threads. There are alot of young guys on here who feel the need to "fit like a glove" or cause no conflict. Whatever comments they see first are the ones they will agree with because they want to fit in, be like the others if you will. There are alot of shape shifters here, and everywhere. Also, you will never get any of the guys to admit that they have once fed thier fish some crazy things. I know I have a long ass time ago, and Zippa and I were actually planning on making a feeding vid of a mouse in with his huge ass shoal in the 200 gal. His fish have never eaten mice as far as we know, so whether it will work or not, who knows. My bets are on the 12" cariba though. Bottom line is, if they can't eat the whole thing in one sitting, don't feed it. Better to let them go out quick than slow. Afterall, that is what mice are bred for. Who ever thinks that mice and rats are bred to be pets is insane, and needs to wake up. They are bred for the purpose to be feeders. Why is it any differant to feed to fish that will bite them in half and swallow the whole body in seconds, compared to put with a snake where they are snatched up with teeth rammed into them to hold them in place while the snake squeezes the sh*t out of them till the point thier eyes pop out of thier head and they piss themselves.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Leasure1 Posted Today, 08:12 AM
> I know exactly what you are saying.....it's all good when those guys want to make a feeding vid, but god forbid you do the same. I mean....yeah, feeding an arrow is pretty stupid, due to the fact that is not a very good fish to use for that purpose, but hey, whatever you want to do is your business. I used to feed mice to my shoal of reds and cariba. They loved it, but knowing how bad it screwed up a tank, I quit doing it. I don't mind feeding vids IF they are reasonable. Mouse vids are reasonable, they get eaten in seconds, so do feeders like JD's and convicts. BUT, there is a point when you should think about what you are wanting them to feed on. If it is too big, don't use it. That is my only beef with feeding vids. Other than that, do as you please. You have to realize why everyone on here gives differant responses to differant threads. There are alot of young guys on here who feel the need to "fit like a glove" or cause no conflict. Whatever comments they see first are the ones they will agree with because they want to fit in, be like the others if you will. There are alot of shape shifters here, and everywhere. Also, you will never get any of the guys to admit that they have once fed thier fish some crazy things. I know I have a long ass time ago, and Zippa and I were actually planning on making a feeding vid of a mouse in with his huge ass shoal in the 200 gal. His fish have never eaten mice as far as we know, so whether it will work or not, who knows. My bets are on the 12" cariba though. Bottom line is, if they can't eat the whole thing in one sitting, don't feed it. Better to let them go out quick than slow. Afterall, that is what mice are bred for. Who ever thinks that mice and rats are bred to be pets is insane, and needs to wake up. They are bred for the purpose to be feeders. Why is it any differant to feed to fish that will bite them in half and swallow the whole body in seconds, compared to put with a snake where they are snatched up with teeth rammed into them to hold them in place while the snake squeezes the sh*t out of them till the point thier eyes pop out of thier head and they piss themselves.


That's a lot of stuff you wrote there.









I'll add this, yes I have fed live fish, yes I have video'd a mouse as well as a snake, but I will not show those to the public. I made the video to show the court and the legislature in case I needed it to show how the average piranha behaves. Had I starved the piranha, the results would have likely been different. Neither the snake or mouse was eaten while they swam around the tank.

Having said that since my reason for video taping is different than what others have done, I don't care what you personally do with your fish, mouse or rats. I consider them food for piranhas, but it is NOT a NECESSARY food. Feeding LIVE FISH is NOT NECESSARY for a healthy diet.

Piranha in my writing refers to more than one.....actually about 60 of them.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

Necessary.....no

But there is one question I do have for you Frank. It is good for them to eat scales, bone, etc? Right? Needed, no, but is it healthy? I think so. It has been a long long time since I have fed mice, I did feed a JD that was in my community tank the other day, took them 2 days before it was eaten, but it was eaten quickly when it did get eaten. About a 2" JD. When I did feed mice, I done it about once a week with the bigger fish I owned, and they would eat them as soon as they hit the water, even after being given fillets the day before, so saying starving is the only way to get them to eat them is not true in every situation. But like I said, I have learned lots since then, and prefer to feed fillets, with the occasional feeder fish as a treat about once every couple months.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Leasure1 Posted Today, 09:01 AM
> Necessary.....no
> 
> *But there is one question I do have for you Frank. It is good for them to eat scales, bone, etc? Right? Needed, no, but is it healthy?* I think so. It has been a long long time since I have fed mice, I did feed a JD that was in my community tank the other day, took them 2 days before it was eaten, but it was eaten quickly when it did get eaten. About a 2" JD. When I did feed mice, I done it about once a week with the bigger fish I owned, and they would eat them as soon as they hit the water, even after being given fillets the day before, so saying starving is the only way to get them to eat them is not true in every situation. But like I said, I have learned lots since then, and prefer to feed fillets, with the occasional feeder fish as a treat about once every couple months.


Scales are a necessary diet of some species; S. elongatus, Catoprion mento, Exodon paradoxus to name a couple or 3. Scales are composed of calcium based salts and a fibrous inner layer made of collagen. Calcium as you might know is also what bone mostly is. C. mento lives almost exclusively on that diet. But C. mento can be trained to accept other foods including flaked that has calcium and bone mixed in as part of the ingredients. So again, live feeding is not necessary.

The other issue with live feeding is parasite/disease transfection. All you need do is take a trip in PFURY Forum on Diseases/Parasites and Injury and you can see quite a few examples of what happens to P's when you give them live fish. But like I said, it doesn't matter to me what you give them. Just be informed.


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## shoal king (Oct 27, 2006)

i apreciate some of those videos when the fish, mice being fed is done in a short amount of time. bu the ones i don't like are those 3-4-or 5 minute video's of a lrg fish or mouse getting eat'n slowly. it looks as though they are just torturing them. imo only feed what your fish can eat. and why waste so muc money on food like the arrow or oscar. they cost way to much to justify them being food imo.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks for the insight Frank


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

It is all about perspective. What is acceptable by some isnt by others. Pretty simple. Tossing a dog on the grill would not be acceptable behavior by some...but in other cultures it wouldnt be an issue.

My personal view on live feeding has more to do with size then anything else. Allowing something to be picked to death is not only sadistic, but pointless.....and is the basis for most of the complaints. I dont watch any live feedings because I dont see much value to the fish in it...and I think it hurts the hobby by sensationalizes and promotes one of the major arguments people present to get these fish banned....they will attack and kill anything.

Just my opinion.


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## rockymax (Feb 12, 2007)

shoal king said:


> i apreciate some of those videos when the fish, mice being fed is done in a short amount of time. bu the ones i don't like are those 3-4-or 5 minute video's of a lrg fish or mouse getting eat'n slowly. it looks as though they are just torturing them. imo only feed what your fish can eat. and why waste so muc money on food like the arrow or oscar. they cost way to much to justify them being food imo.


x2

quick vids are fine but some of those videos just look like torture...i gave a convict to my 2 reds (reds about 4" convict around 2") and it took them a little too long, so i dont really plan on doing that again unless theyre a little bigger and can get the job done quicker. watching some of those vids u cant help but feel bad for some of the fish that get little bits of them taken off over a 5-10 min period. the reason i tried the convict was because i gave them feeders about a month ago that were almost 2" and they were eaten in a couple bites. convict was a diff story.


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## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

I enjoy watchin a live feedin from my piranhas. But i dont like sittin around all day watching feeding videos, and i dont like torture. IF/when i do feed my piranhas live (which is seldom) i only give a small feedr so they each get a bite, and the feel of the hunt. Sometimes they'll eat pellets afetr the feedr.


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## btweather (Mar 12, 2007)

> Leasure1 Posted Today, 09:01 AM
> 
> The other issue with live feeding is parasite/disease transfection. All you need do is take a trip in PFURY Forum on Diseases/Parasites and Injury and you can see quite a few examples of what happens to P's when you give them live fish. But like I said, it doesn't matter to me what you give them. Just be informed.


i read somewhere on this site that cichlid, mollies, and swordtails make a safer heathier feeder fish for piranhas. that is what i was planning on using as a treat for my piranhas. i believe that catching thier own food is a big part of thier lives, thats what theyre designed to do after all, i think i would feel bad taking that away. well thats my two cents.
PEACE AND LOVE


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## spinalremains (Nov 10, 2006)

hastatus said:


> > Leasure1 Posted Today, 09:01 AM
> > Necessary.....no
> >
> > *But there is one question I do have for you Frank. It is good for them to eat scales, bone, etc? Right? Needed, no, but is it healthy?* I think so. It has been a long long time since I have fed mice, I did feed a JD that was in my community tank the other day, took them 2 days before it was eaten, but it was eaten quickly when it did get eaten. About a 2" JD. When I did feed mice, I done it about once a week with the bigger fish I owned, and they would eat them as soon as they hit the water, even after being given fillets the day before, so saying starving is the only way to get them to eat them is not true in every situation. But like I said, I have learned lots since then, and prefer to feed fillets, with the occasional feeder fish as a treat about once every couple months.
> ...


(SORRY FOR THE DERAIL) Hey Frank, what is a good way to give S. Elongatus scales if it is a necessity? I don't feed live, so would it be a good idea to buy fish with scales and skin? I did try to feed my elong a live tetra, and I had to euthanize it due to only its fins being eaten. I know thats typical behavior of serrasalmus elongatus. Just curious of what you think.


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## Cal68 (Mar 23, 2007)

its not what you feed it, its how...

dont feed it something live that takes freakin 30min to just to get few nibbles off. ive seen the oscar video...if it was smaller then it wouldnt been as torchoring. thats pretty much it. and whats up with these metal music that goes along with it? lol...


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

I know all to well how this forum is run, if HOLLYWOOD over-stockes his tank it's all good...but once a new member or anybody else does it they all rip that member apart... you see this all the time..

there are a few other members here with fat piranhas like mine I will not name them but those members get all good feedback, but here I get riped apart for it.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> (SORRY FOR THE DERAIL) Hey Frank, what is a good way to give S. Elongatus scales if it is a necessity? I don't feed live, so would it be a good idea to buy fish with scales and skin? I did try to feed my elong a live tetra, and I had to euthanize it due to only its fins being eaten. I know thats typical behavior of serrasalmus elongatus. Just curious of what you think.


Scales are only a small part of the diet of S. elongatus, mostly as juveniles where they remove scales from larger fish than themselves. So its not a problem feeding them chunks of fish with scales on.



> RB 32 Posted Today, 09:56 PM
> I know all to well how this forum is run,* if HOLLYWOOD over-stockes his tank it's all good*...but once a new member or anybody else does it they all rip that member apart... you see this all the time..
> 
> there are a few other members here with fat piranhas like mine I will not name them but those members get all good feedback, but here I get riped apart for it.


Obviously, you have never read past posts between HOLLYWOOD and me. There are very good reasons why you should not overstock. But like I said many times before, its your fish you bought it. Kill it any way you want, for the rest, there are ethical issues on proper care and nutrition.


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

some very good post in this thread...

I don't really care what any of you do with your fish...I also don't pay for food I catch it clean it ( 48 hour freeze of course)and cut off small chunk for my piranha.

I lost interest in live feeding live years ago.


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## hitler (Jun 4, 2006)

its all a matter of what that person deems a "pet". I wouldnt ever feed a oscar to a p. I happen to like oscars, but i dont mind watching a video of one getting eaten. I find it facinating to see nature happen. I know that in nature p's dont hunt healthy prey, but it is still awesome to watch. I look at it like watching the discovery channel. cant make everyone happy all the time. someone , somewhere will be offended by just about anything.


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## ReBoot (Oct 31, 2006)

The worst thing about some of the comments on YouTube to some of the videos is how people will actually threaten to hurt a human being for feeding a piranha a mouse. As a hunter I have seen some of the great and insightful comments PITA and other animal rights groups have said.

I guess people have forgot about the epidemics brought about from the waste of mice.

As far as it goes on the oscar issue, I guess people feel its an unfair advantage because there is 1 oscar and numerous P's, I guess they want to see the same ammount of oscars be put in the tank, but in that case, I would definately still go with the fish with the sharper teeth.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

Frank, may I ask what nationality you are?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RB 32 Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM
> Frank, may I ask what nationality you are?


Sure, I'm made in the U.S.A


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

RB 32 said:


> I know all to well how this forum is run, if HOLLYWOOD over-stockes his tank it's all good...but once a new member or anybody else does it they all rip that member apart... you see this all the time..
> 
> there are a few other members here with fat piranhas like mine I will not name them but those members get all good feedback, but here I get riped apart for it.


Are you drunk????

Your post has nothing to do with the topic.....what is your point....and I also find it hard to belive that ANYONE but YOU have reds that look like yours. Some may be fat, but no where near the size of your fish.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > RB 32 Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM
> > Frank, may I ask what nationality you are?
> 
> 
> Sure, I'm made in the U.S.A


So you were born here then right?

For some reason I thought you were spanish.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RB 32 Posted Today, 04:03 PM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Mar 28 2007, 07:27 AM)
> QUOTE
> RB 32 Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM
> ...










There's gotta be a punch-line somewhere in all of this.







None of what you have written so far has anything to do with this thread. Why not just sit back and let the other members interested in the original thread post their comments, and you.........find another thread, perhaps the lounge to keep you busy.


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## chris k (Dec 27, 2006)

hastatus said:


> > RB 32 Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM
> > Frank, may I ask what nationality you are?
> 
> 
> Sure, I'm made in the U.S.A


Classic


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

Leasure1 said:


> I know exactly what you are saying.....it's all good when those guys want to make a feeding vid, but god forbid you do the same. I mean....yeah, feeding an arrow is pretty stupid, due to the fact that is not a very good fish to use for that purpose, but hey, whatever you want to do is your business. I used to feed mice to my shoal of reds and cariba. They loved it, but knowing how bad it screwed up a tank, I quit doing it. I don't mind feeding vids IF they are reasonable. Mouse vids are reasonable, they get eaten in seconds, so do feeders like JD's and convicts. BUT, there is a point when you should think about what you are wanting them to feed on. If it is too big, don't use it. That is my only beef with feeding vids. Other than that, do as you please. You have to realize why everyone on here gives differant responses to differant threads. *There are alot of young guys on here who feel the need to "fit like a glove" or cause no conflict. Whatever comments they see first are the ones they will agree with because they want to fit in, be like the others if you will. *There are alot of shape shifters here, and everywhere. Also, you will never get any of the guys to admit that they have once fed thier fish some crazy things. I know I have a long ass time ago, and Zippa and I were actually planning on making a feeding vid of a mouse in with his huge ass shoal in the 200 gal. His fish have never eaten mice as far as we know, so whether it will work or not, who knows. My bets are on the 12" cariba though. Bottom line is, if they can't eat the whole thing in one sitting, don't feed it. Better to let them go out quick than slow. Afterall, that is what mice are bred for. Who ever thinks that mice and rats are bred to be pets is insane, and needs to wake up. They are bred for the purpose to be feeders. Why is it any differant to feed to fish that will bite them in half and swallow the whole body in seconds, compared to put with a snake where they are snatched up with teeth rammed into them to hold them in place while the snake squeezes the sh*t out of them till the point thier eyes pop out of thier head and they piss themselves.


I totally agree with you there..well said..they influence each other they want to fit in..


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

Bout time you posted a realitively close comment pretaining to the thread.....kinda


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## Whall Banner (Nov 25, 2004)

Well there certainly are some good points made on this thread.

I can't even feed my P's goldfish when the mrs and my young daughter are around as they feel its cruel and a waste of an animal (even though my Caribe are 6-7inch and could eat 3 at a time in under 5 seconds). We all have different beliefs i.e in the opening thread when it was said that people get offended by chiclids as feeders and not goldfish. At the end of the day a fish is fish and I feel that as long as its eaten quickly and not wasted then so be it. I fed a Red to my Rhom once and even though I posted it on a Piranha lovers forum - IT STILL BROUGHT MIXED COMMENTS i.e not everyone flamed me.


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## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

WHALL BANNER makes a good point.

Also my GF hates live feedings. But Cichlid, Piranha, or Swordtail, i dont really care what anybody feeds their fish. I only try to feed mine healthy fish that wont cause parasites. Typical feeders lack said quality.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> WHALL BANNER makes a good point.
> 
> Also my GF hates live feedings. But Cichlid, Piranha, or Swordtail, i dont really care what anybody feeds their fish.* I only try to feed mine healthy fish that wont cause parasites.* Typical feeders lack said quality.


Now its getting into a mature thread again. Note BOLD above, parasites are already in your water. It doesn't matter how healthy a fish is. Stress and related problems can explode with parasites and diseases even in a tank that doesn't feed live fish. But less likely. It really is a crap shoot. But myself personally, I stay away from feeders. As a parasitologist said to me, just because you don't see it (parasite) doesn't mean it ain't there.


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## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

The biggest problem is when someone uses a feeder that is simple too big for the P's to eat in one session. It then becomes a waste of a decent fish when only half of it gets eatn then they tape it for another 2 minutes of it layn on the bottom still kickn but slowly dieing. Vids where P's eat whatever it is they are eating in less than 30 seconds is fine for most people. But these 4-5 minute feeding videos are jsut retarded. Especially when somone posts "Aggressive" P's when in reality they aren't. I dont get where people say my P's are real Aggressive. I wouldnt consider most P's aggressive. Just because it tears its food apart has nothing to do with aggressiveness. You wouldnt call your dog aggressive just because he goes to town on his food would you?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Ibanez247 Posted Today, 09:42 AM
> The biggest problem is when someone uses a feeder that is simple too big for the P's to eat in one session. It then becomes a waste of a decent fish when only half of it gets eatn then they tape it for another 2 minutes of it layn on the bottom still kickn but slowly dieing. Vids where P's eat whatever it is they are eating in less than 30 seconds is fine for most people. But these 4-5 minute feeding videos are jsut retarded. Especially when somone posts "Aggressive" P's when in reality they aren't. I dont get where people say my P's are real Aggressive. I wouldnt consider most P's aggressive. Just because it tears its food apart has nothing to do with aggressiveness. You wouldnt call your dog aggressive just because he goes to town on his food would you?


My chihuahua is a mean predator when it eats her dog food. Watch out she's dangerous when you try to touch her at her bowl.


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## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

My feeders are quarentined for weeks. Any signs of parasite i remove them from my feeder tank. I only feed live 1ce a month MAYBE, but u r righ frank there could be any number of parasites swimming in my tank, or ur tank or anybodies tank. I do my best to ensure theyre not there but there is no surefire method. But piranhas pick off the sick fish in the wild, i could go to the sick tanks at my lfs and pick up some feeders there... but i wont.


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## face2006 (Feb 17, 2006)

RB 32 said:


> > RB 32 Posted Yesterday, 11:56 PM
> > Frank, may I ask what nationality you are?
> 
> 
> Sure, I'm made in the U.S.A


So you were born here then right?

For some reason I thought you were spanish.
[/quote]

I speak spanish do u need something translated?







.... All in all this has been very helpful in improving my P's diet..!


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