# My friend P's are breeding



## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

My friend's red belly piranhas are about 11 month old and turn real black today and we noticed they lays down like 150-300 eggs with the blacker one that patrol the eggs









tank is a 110 gal with 6 one years old P's

He don't know what to do , is there a change they survive in the same tank?

I was thinking about divid the tank with a glass or some screen...?

Also can I take some eggs and bring it at my home ( about 10 min of car) and put it in my little tank (the smaller one like 1-2 gallons) with water of the 110???

thanks!!


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

Tell your friend congrats on the breeding. I'd wait until the fry hatch and then I'd remove them into their own fry tank. I doubt that the parents wouldn't cannabalize them soon after. I don't see a problem with you taking some eggs as long as the container you put them in is aerated and heated. I personally would just wait for them to hatch where they are and then take them later on IMO.


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Read Primetime3wise's thread on his Mac's. You will gather alot of info on everything you need to do to raise the fry. I wouldnt move any at all till they are ready to hatch. I believe its about 3 days from the time that they are layed. Correct me if I am wrong by all means.


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## caribad (Jul 27, 2008)

I'd siphon eggs just before they are expected to hatch, or siphon wigglers just after hatching. With water from the 110, and a little methylene blue added you have a good chance of raising some up. Chance of any of the little ones making it in the main tank, less than 1% in my opinion. As mentioned above Primetime's thread is a good one, and covers all the bases in pretty good detail.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok thanks all !! It's pretty much what I want to know.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok we just find a 10 gallons that we are gonna start tonight with filter and heater,add water of the 110..

Should we add some gravel from the 110 or just water is enought ??


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Just water and a SPONGE FILTER... Dont use a regular filter it will suck the fry up. Then you can say bye bye to the whole batch.. Be sure to clean the tank very well also.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok thanks man ! Is there other important thing I need to know ,for not screwed up everything?


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Ummmm no window cleaner on the tank lol... Idk man i just picked up alot of stuff from primetime's thread.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

We fill it up tonight with heater and filter, I use a old net that I cut and put over the intake to prevent syphoning eggs , it seems to work as they are 5-6 eggs stick to the net...

After that we syphoned the area she leave the eggs(the get under the gravel ) and A LOT of eggs lift up !!!!!
I estimate an easy 300 eggs, syphoned they are bright orange under the light with the tail swimming really fast in round like they are trying to leave the shell









I even see one free out of is eggs swimming weird :laugh:

parameter was really off, like 80ppm nitrate and .25 nitrite , so we perform a 10% water change , wait 1 hour and take another reading, it was to hight again , so we do another 10% water change and parameter went ok.

We will keep an eyes on thoses little guys


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Good to hear man. Keep us updated and let us know how many survive.


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## l2ob (May 22, 2004)

how many 10 gallon tanks do you have for the fry? Start making brine shrimp , you can buy a hatchery at a petstore usually or online, or make your own.

Lil piranhas are extremely hungry and need to be fed ATLEAST 3 times a day if not more. they turn very canablistic and you will see the numbers drop quick, i went through it.

but , since this is the first time, there is something to learn for the next time right? Goodluck! and keep us posted


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

thanks, I will go chek it today and take somes pics, we only have one 10 gal for fry.


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Better be gettin a bigger tank up and going soon.


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## YellowNsx (Jan 12, 2008)




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## YellowNsx (Jan 12, 2008)

yellownsx69 said:


>


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok some update , he just buy a 55 gal today , we fill it with 60% of water from the 110 gal and 40% tap water,add 1/2" of gravel from the 110 also and a lot of the deco , heated up to 80 and add the three feeders he have in the 110... 
We are gonna do some water tests next day's...

For the eggs,look like they are doing well , now we could see the head the other side of the shell !!!

We made like 4-5 15% water change today to keep the ammonia down, but still had .25ppm...


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

The 55 is almost ready
















the picture was taken couples hours after fill up and today it was already super clear !!

home made sponge over intake with a window scraper









sponge over original intake









baby's tonight ... some are already swimming at 6" high but crash after couples of seconds :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymt_SyIdT-o...re=channel_page


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Looks like they produced a decent amount of eggs.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

We are not shure when it's time to put them in the 55??

they are at day 7 after the eggs have been release, they now swim free in a 10 gal but some are still on the ground but still moving...

thanks!!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

be sure to double check your water parameters and make sure your 55g tank is cycled and the same temp as well. imo, they are most vulnerable the first 3 weeks, from egg, so be careful. you might just wanna start by adding a small amount and see how they do. again i have to stress, at such a young age they are delicate to fluctuations in water temp and quality...to make sure it's cycled!

they will start accepting very small amounts of bbs, right around today, day 7. if you don't know about hatching baby brine shrimp every day, you should start researching it ASAP. there are other feeding options, as well, but bbs is a great place to start.

they should be ok with how you wrapped a sponge around a filter intake. if it's too strong it might suck some of them in towards it, then you would need a sponge filter w/ airstone/pump. turn off your filters when feeding them for like 1/2 hour so your intake doesn't get clogged up w/ food. and start w/ very small amounts and work your way up. they are not cannibalistic for a while so your ok.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for your response!

We check parameter like 5 times a day, nitrite and nitrate is Ok but ammonia is always at .25-.50 with 4-5 25% water change per day, but I don't care to much about .25 since the 110 was a lot worse than this so the 10 gal is better ...

We try haching some pellet and flake with a coffee grinder

We will try the brine shrimp

We keep an eye on the 55 add like 20 lives plants today , 4 goldfish and more gravel , temp is 79-80

On the 10 gal we notice the third day that our thermometer was wrong , in reality it was at 77







so we ajust the heater to 81 now water is 81-82 ... they seems to handle this good...









We will wait a couple of days before putting iit in the 55.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

sounds like you are changing way too much water too often. almost no way your giving it time to cycle with all those water changes. once it is cycled you should have no ammonia, easily. you can add some things to help it along, but you still need to give it time, and with even just a little ammonia, i doubt your fry will last to even be juveniles.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok so you suggest reduce water change but what if parameter go high?

I will go check it and test water tonight

I'll keep you updated

thanks again!!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

you could do well to search for some more info, here, and elsewhere on the web, about cycling tanks. you have a few options, like adding products from you lfs, or adding things from your older tank(s). the water chemistry forum here and the info. section are sources of good info. you should expect to have a high ammonia reading in the beginning, when a tank is just starting to cycle. i just think you are not giving it time to even start the process. if you do it "naturally", it may take days to weeks.

a great product i used with good results for my fry tanks, was "Tetra Safe Start". it's supposed to allow the immediate addition of fish. i used it on all 3 of my fry tanks and it worked great. i know because if it didn't work well all my fry would be dead w/in days.

anyone else able to chime in on this? agreed that if he is changing so much water he is not giving it time to cycle?


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok I will look at my LFS is they have it.









We could add a bit of gravel from the 110 since most of the plant are now in the 55.

I aslo have some Cycle don't know if its a good idea at this stade?


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

We add a bit of gravel from the 110 , still got .50 ammonia so we made a couple of 20% water change with water from the 55 , ammonia was down to .25 or little less.

They are now swimming in group all facing in the same direction and start to react when I move fast in front of the tank









We only find a couples of dead for now ( like 5-6 per days) we still think they are to small to put in the 55 so we will wait a couples of days.


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## WillieWonka1 (Mar 20, 2006)

I really don't understand the rationale of using used water from an existing tank to "change" water in a tank. Everyone says there is no beneficial bacteria in the water....so why would anyone take_ dirty_ water from a tank to _clean_ the water in another tank.

When my reds started to breed, I was in the same position as you... not prepared at all. I just put them in a bare 20 gal with a new sponge filter... new treated water (prime) and doing a roughly 20-25% water change daily ( again fresh water from the tap treated with prime and kept at close to the same temp)...made sure the tank was kept clean from dead fish and garbage.....fed them either crushed flakes or liquid fry food until I got the bbs set up.

I probably got the best survival rate with this batch.... possibly because I spent more time with it... possibly because of the way I did it.. maybe a combination of both.

Just my opinion... but I think if you keep up with the water changes and keep the tank clean.. you should be fine.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

It's just because the 55 is ready with no ammonia, no nitrites and .5 nitrates , so I think it was better than tap water since we are running out of water conditionner ...

And also it prepare the baby's for her new environment.

We put  a dozen  in the 55 just to see , and they are doing fine swimming all around , so I think we are ready for the transfer.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

WillieWonka1 said:


> *I really don't understand the rationale of using used water from an existing tank to "change" water in a tank. Everyone says there is no beneficial bacteria in the water....so why would anyone take dirty water from a tank to clean the water in another tank. *
> 
> When my reds started to breed, I was in the same position as you... not prepared at all. I just put them in a bare 20 gal with a new sponge filter... new treated water (prime) and doing a roughly 20-25% water change daily ( again fresh water from the tap treated with prime and kept at close to the same temp)...made sure the tank was kept clean from dead fish and garbage.....fed them either crushed flakes or liquid fry food until I got the bbs set up.
> 
> ...


once again i didnt follow this whole thread but to answer the comment in bold the reason they use the water from the parent tank is to prevent shock to the fish/possible loss of all fry. its more then the water just being dechlorinated the parent tank is at a certain ph and hardness which affects the health of a fish. depending on the water parameters not just nitrates and nitrites and ammonia i mean ph and hardness and all that other jazz as well it could be equal to taking a saltwater fish and putting it in freshwater or vice versa. if a fish is acustomed to certain water conditions it may be difficult for them to adjust especially at such a young age. larger/older fish have a easier time adjusting to change in water conditions.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

The water change was made with the water from their future tank (55) not the 110 (parent) , both are cycled but 110 had more pollution...

We transfer all fry today (day 10 ) and look like a good move because we lost a couple last night (not shure how much),this morning nothing was swimming in the 10 gal , only laying down on the groung and after the transfer to the 55 all are swimming good and eat little white worm on the glass!!!

I'm not so disapointed with the lost , still have 100-150 baby's in the 55 in good looking condition!!

I will try some pic tonight!


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## WillieWonka1 (Mar 20, 2006)

AS fan said:


> once again i didnt follow this whole thread but to answer the comment in bold the reason they use the water from the parent tank is to prevent shock to the fish/possible loss of all fry. its more then the water just being dechlorinated the parent tank is at a certain ph and hardness which affects the health of a fish. depending on the water parameters not just nitrates and nitrites and ammonia i mean ph and hardness and all that other jazz as well it could be equal to taking a saltwater fish and putting it in freshwater or vice versa. if a fish is acustomed to certain water conditions it may be difficult for them to adjust especially at such a young age. larger/older fish have a easier time adjusting to change in water conditions.


How can a fish that has just hatched be accustomed to anything??


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

any update on the fry? i am interested to see if things are working out, or not? i was afraid your tank isn't/wasn't cycled properly.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

WillieWonka1 said:


> once again i didnt follow this whole thread but to answer the comment in bold the reason they use the water from the parent tank is to prevent shock to the fish/possible loss of all fry. its more then the water just being dechlorinated the parent tank is at a certain ph and hardness which affects the health of a fish. depending on the water parameters not just nitrates and nitrites and ammonia i mean ph and hardness and all that other jazz as well it could be equal to taking a saltwater fish and putting it in freshwater or vice versa. if a fish is acustomed to certain water conditions it may be difficult for them to adjust especially at such a young age. larger/older fish have a easier time adjusting to change in water conditions.


How can a fish that has just hatched be accustomed to anything??
[/quote]

I guess by me saying accustomed might not be the proper word choice. all i am saying is different fish require certain water parameters and in part that is why the parents only breed during certain times and under certain conditions. as the fish get older they can better handle changes in water conditions. the focus of them breeding at these times and under these conditions is just to better the chance of survival for their babies. it is kind of hard for me to write what i am trying to say but if you read over it again i think you will atleast understand what i mean. the water from the parent tank vs the water from the tap could be as different as freshwater is from saltwater because of the different parameters and the jist is you normally wouldnt toss a freshwater fish in saltwater because it would naturally die and sometimes having different water then the parent tank is the same as that situation so you use the water from the parent tank to be safe in many cases.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

primetime3wise said:


> any update on the fry? i am interested to see if things are working out, or not? i was afraid your tank isn't/wasn't cycled properly.


They look good !!!! I am surprise myself that they survive 9 days in an uncycled 10 gallons with a lot of water change and .50 ammonia, since they are in the 55 they look a lot better, swimming and eat worm on the glass and the crushed food we feed!

Not much bigger ,but you can see their body is forming, we are now at day 13 , nitrite went at .25 day 12 , so I made a 15% water change , test it today and all at zero and nitrates is 5.0.

We check it every day or two and feed 3-4 time a days.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Little update on the fry...

We are now at day 22 and look like they are some lost in the past days , I estimate 50-75 are still alive









BUT they are not growing very much ,can see body forming little more but still maybe 1/2" long or little less

parameter are all fine , maybee not enough food , don't really know...


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## Big-Kev (Mar 29, 2008)

Vince302 said:


> We try haching some pellet and flake with a coffee grinder


Personally I would skip the pellets and coffee grinder. Just get some quality flake food then put some in a sandwich bag and crush it fine by rubbing it
between two fingers.


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

Yesterday when we are looking at a hockey game we assist at some piranhas porn!!!

Look like this process start over again one month later , we see them built the area and like 1 hour later we see them shaking side by side laying the stuff in a crazy dance ... that was really cool to see!!!

So we need to remore the 10-15 1"+ survivor from the last batch in the 55g, some friend gonna take them and the rest gonna go to LFS .

Hope we gonna have better succes this time!


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## Vince302 (Sep 8, 2008)

One week later


















We droped the cage on the gravel yeterday so now they can start swimming and eating .


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