# Restart A Tank



## MFNRyan

With my current loss, I decided to try to re-cycle my tank before I add any new fish. Right now the tank param's are ok but this tank has had wild spikes for no reason and has ran for months with the new filter. So while it is empty I would like to try a little re-cycle to take these problems out in the future.

Here is what I got. 
55g tank, Cascade 1500 filter, One sponge on the bottom, two rows of floss, two rows of Fluval Bio-Cubes and one cascade bio media bag, plus one Seachem Purigen bag that polishes and removes organic waste. I would say I have maybe 2 full things of fluval bio-cubes. The tank is filled with black sand for the substrait.

So let me know what you guys think I should do to re run a cycle in this tank an what I should look for an when to know it's done. Thanks.

Looking at a RRS or Elong to put in this tank once it's taken care of an good.


----------



## BRUNER247

Cycling 101


----------



## MFNRyan

Is it the same for a tank that has already ran for awhile or is there something a little different you can do for a tank that's up an running that's not such a process?


----------



## MFNRyan

How much bio media do you think I need to handle a single serra in this tank? Also I have the 1500 which has 5 rows of media trays. Do you think I need two floss pads and are they ok side by side on the bottom of the filter right after the sponge filter? Do you think I should remove the seachem bag for organic waste removal while i'm trying to cycle?


----------



## MPG

A smaller serra produces very little biowaste. I think your setup is fine.

Should go..

Polisher
Polisher
Bio
Sponge

Idk how 1500s are setup up though


----------



## MFNRyan

Shows it cleans the water from the bottom up? So I got sponge, floss, floss, bio, bio. They say the sponge catches the majority of the waste and gunk, the floss catches the little stuff and cleans the water and the bio media fights the organic parts and needs to be last in my filtration? Is this correct or am I mistaken? Also I thought I seen on your other post about buying some stuff from the store and making your own floss. What do you buy exactly and what is this plastic pot scrubber I see people talking about? Any Idea there?


----------



## bob351

Pot scrubbers are only used as a cheap form of biological filtration for sumps not canister filters... floss is cheap at least around here so it would be pointless to make a cheaper version of a cheap product.

If your tank is having wild spikes its not cycling or did not cycle properly.

MPG im guessing by polisher you mean carbon or some other product like it... its a waste of money and space in a filter all you need is mech and bio filtration.


----------



## MFNRyan

NO I don't run carbon or any of that.. The Floss stuff i heard is a polisher pad. I run those.. No Chemical filtration at all


----------



## MPG

I and many other users here use scrubbies in canisters. Works fine imo. Yes by polisher I mean a polisher pad/filter floss. I would go bio before the polisher though.


----------



## MFNRyan

Ok what are the scrubbies your talking about? I may give them a try and I am currently doing two rows of the floss pads and two rows of the bio cubes. If I don't need the floss I would love to get it out of there because it's a pain to deal with.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

If I were in your situation, I'd probably just start that tank from scratch seeing as how you have no idea what killed your fish and it happened suddenly -- not to mention the issues you've had with cycling. I'd drain the tank, clean everything well, and then start the whole process from the beginning using some shrimp as an ammonia source, then make sure your tank is cycled properly before ordering another fish.


----------



## MFNRyan

Joe, Should I clean all the filter also? I had cycled the tank for a little over a month before I started putting fish in it. The tank ran for a little over a year then started acting funny. I started the cycle over last night. Added shrimp to the tank and today my Nitrites are up and ammonia is up. I took the shrimp out of the tank today. Seems the cycle is starting. What would be a good fish I could add that's not so hardy as a gold fish to make sure it won't kill whatever P I put in it next? After i cycle it I may add some sort of fish and give him a few weeks in the tank then buy a new P RRS or Elong possible smaller rhom. A solo Serra?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

I would take everything apart and clean it... drain the tank, clean the sand again, clean the filters -- everything. Then set everything up again and cycle using nothing but shrimp -- that will be your ammonia source without any risk of introducing something carried by cheap fish used to cycle.

You want to keep the shrimp in there for the whole cycle, don't remove it once you start showing ammonia.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

I agree with joe on just starting over and cycling from scratch.

Like I said in pm: I am not a fan of filter floss in cannisters, chem media or the unnessisary use of buffing agenents.


----------



## MFNRyan

Well due to the issues I had just about everything in this tank has been cleaned. I was trying to find the source of the ammonia since I had ammonia only for such a long time. I think the cause of death was due to me putting the pillow case i had the big bags of sand in into the water. It could have had soap or bleach in the fabric and like an idiot I put that in the tank to pour the sand in evenly instead of just dropping it from above. I also did this with the little bags of sand I bougt, kept those in the bags they came in though. rinsed the sand through the bag. I'm sure I got something nasty in there. I also had to old carbon media from a good tank in his at the time trying to help build some BB it was right next to the intake tube. I doubt that caused it but it was also something different in the tank at his T.O.D

With that said do you really think it's necessary to whip everything out on this and start over? This could take months to restart the cycle?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

If it was me, I'd clean everything, what's waiting a couple more weeks if you can be sure that everything is safe for a new fish? In the end, it's up to you tho.

Prime should have taken care of any tiny amounts of bleach that could have made it into your tank.

You could speed up the cycle by using some established media from another tank, just keep some shrimp in there as an ammonia source and make sure everything has leveled off before you put the order in for a new fish.


----------



## MFNRyan

Ok Joe, I'll clean everything out just to make sure. I don't want another dead fish for sure. I have no clue what could have got into that tank... This boggles my mind.

What does keeping the ammonia source in do for the cycle? Doesn't it constantly add ammonia to your tank?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

You need a constant source of ammonia to cycle a tank and to keep it cycled afterwards -- the bacteria in your filter that turn ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate starve and die when they don't have a food source anymore.

To cycle your tank, the shrimp is your ammonia source, once it is cycled and you put fish in there, your fish and the food you put in the tank become the ammonia source.


----------



## MFNRyan

Ok but if I never take the shrimp out wouldn't I constantly get ammonia? I'm not arguing just trying to learn the proper way to do this. I left ammonia source until my nitrites were a purple color on the master test ki.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

You should leave the shrimp in until your cycle is complete, meaning that there is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and your nitrate levels start rising. The whole point of cycling is so that you have bacteria that can consume ammonia and nitrite and convert it into the less toxic nitrate as the end product. Your fish will produce ammonia, rotting plants and food will produce ammonia -- cycling with shrimp or even pure ammonia is just getting your tank ready to handle the ammonia that will always be produced when your tank has fish in it.

I'm not a big fan of posting links, but this is a great write up on cycling...

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/196087-cycling-101/

Understanding how the nitrogen cycle works within an aquarium is absolutely essential to being successful in this hobby -- it will help you avoid some of the most common problems that hobbyists face as well as allow you to quickly rule things out or diagnose problems when they arise.


----------



## MFNRyan

Thanks JOe, I am cleaning the tank now and starting my cycle over. So even with shrimp in the tank it will eventually go down to 0 ammonia? During this I don't need to mess with anything do any water changes right? That's how I did it when setting the tank up. Let it run an no changes in the tank until it was done


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

Yeah, it'll go down to 0 ammonia when there is enough bacteria in your filters to handle the ammonia produced by the rotting shrimp. No water changes are necessary, just keep the filters and heater running and be patient. If you aren't using any established media, I'd wait a bit before you bother testing.


----------



## MFNRyan

The media is fairly established. I'm going to buy more bio cubes tomorrow and take the floss pad out. Maybe go with double sponge set up or something so I have some mechanical filtration in with it not just bio


----------



## TRIG

RedBelly11 said:


> The media is fairly established. I'm going to buy more bio cubes tomorrow and take the floss pad out. Maybe go with double sponge set up or something so I have some mechanical filtration in with it not just bio


If the media was established you wouldn't be doing this right now. In the beginning of this thread you say you were having crazy spikes. What were these spikes in? Amonnia? If so, that would indicate your filter was never established to begin with.


----------



## MFNRyan

I cycled the tank for about a month an a half when I got the new set up. Param's cleared off. I kept some fish in it for about 2 months no problems, then moved my sanchezi to the tank for 4 months with no problem. I then moved my gibbus to the tank and for a few weeks it was fine. I fed him one night an thought he ate everything. The next day I noticed it was still in there. So I removed the food, checked the water had just a touch of green on my test kit. So I changed about 10% water. Checked it when I got home ammonia was worse. The ammonia stayed up for a month! Just ammonia was high, no nitrite and low nitrates. I did was changes, cleaned my filter lines, very extensive gravel cleaning, and added more bio media. Finally the ammonia went down an nitrite went down nitrate was fine. it leveled off for a few weeks then I had a high nitrate spike and no matter how much water I changed it stayed up. Then finally the hole thing leveled off for about two weeks. Changed the substrait and then the Gibbus died. Not to mention the tank had ran for almost a year before I ever put P's in it. I had an Oscar and some cichlids in it.


----------



## MFNRyan

So it has been a week an nothing has dropped off yet, no nitrates yet just the one shade off from the top, Shouldn't I have seen a drop in Ammonia by now or anything?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

No, you should see a build up of ammonia, followed by a drop in ammonia and build up of nitrite, followed by a drop in nitrite and build up of nitrates -- I strongly suggest reading that Cycling 101 article that I gave you a link to.


----------



## MFNRyan

I read it, still don't understand fully how the cycle works. Right now I have a spike in both ammonia and Nitrites an no drops in either


----------

