# WHO??



## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

Who on this board has ever SEEN caribe eggs or fry?

not small caribe, but actual fry? not talked to somebody who has...but actually seen them.

If you have. The first thing you should have done was take pictures...
I think it's a bunch of bullshit myself.

I was kinda joking around at first but somebody decided to get cocky, so now I really want proof.


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm sure they're all rushing to send you proof now. Still haven't learned the art of tact yet I see.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I have not seen.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

Neoplasia said:


> I'm sure they're all rushing to send you proof now. Still haven't learned the art of tact yet I see.


 look who's talking....

and your point is?????

hey, im just requesting some info so i don't get embaressed in the future. why is that so bad?

what is everybodies problem?


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Perhaps the attitude behind it? Chill out man, good grief.

But anyways, you wouldn't know the difference with pictures, they'd look identical to wild-caught ones.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I know a person who has bred caribe. I have contacted him and if he chooses he will post and tell everyone he has done it. But I guarantee you...it has been done. I can offer no proof....the only proof I have is the word of a good man who i trust.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I know a person who has bred caribe. If he chooses he will say he has "seen fry". But I guarantee you...it has been done. I can offer no proof....the only proof I have is the word of a good man who i trust.


 do you see my point though????

you are the only one who has semi-proof of this, something that could make a person very very wealthy yet doesn't sell them. and all you have is somebodies word. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe the guy, im just saying that without proof im not gonna believe it and encourage others not to believe it either.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > I know a person who has bred caribe. If he chooses he will say he has "seen fry". But I guarantee you...it has been done. I can offer no proof....the only proof I have is the word of a good man who i trust.
> ...


They have been bred in captivity. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your perogative.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> goldfish chunks in teeth Posted on May 21 2003, 09:51 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (hastatus @ May 21 2003, 03:47 PM)
> Both have been bred. The yellow forms since late 80s. The cariba within the last 3 or 4 years./QUOTE
> ...


I see no where in my posts where I acted cocky towards you. I simply said you needed to do more research before saying something was false. Also I did not resort to name calling or foul language, both attributes and manners which you clearly showed in your last post before Mike closed it.

This will be my last post on this topic, you didn't embarrass me as much as you embarrassed yourself. And reading the method you were replying to me indicated you had another agenda.

Have a nice day.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

Ok Goldfish, to prove your point, i know a guy had the pair of breeding Caribe. I also had one of their offspring. =) You can take my word for it and you may not. It seems like people want to keep the Cariba breeding a secret. I would not lie to you that i have a captive bred Cariba. There is no point in me lying. Anyhow, i seen the fish and i had one of their offspring in my tank.


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## wallago2111 (Mar 15, 2003)

I don't know who all you are but I find it so ridiculous that you can say just because you have'nt seen fry or eggs the fish has not been spawned. I haven't seen oxygen but I am not so narrow minded as to assume therefore it doesn't exist. I have been breeding fish for probably more years then you are old and I would never make a statement like you just did. I have seen both of the objectives in your request, eggs and fry, I have seen these because I have bred them. I really don't care if you belive me or not but have promised Frank that I will document the full breed next spawn. I hope you will be satisfied at that point, because thats all you are going to get.I love this hobby and I am very upset with all the name calling and acusations that get thrown around. I wish for just once people would look at who they are talking about and realize this man deserves your respect if nothing more, he has ,as I, nothing to prove to those who only want to attack. I am not going to respond to any attacks here but am happy to answer responsible questions.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

okay okay okay....

i don't want to be the bad guy of the board here...

obviously i've struck a nerve. we have yet to see pics...

eric, xenon, i believe you guys. but i think before posting it on a website like franks, there should be proof to back it up, that's all.

sorry...i will drop it.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

How about some 1" piraya Well a hair over 1 1/4"








Here they are at 2 3/4 inches








Who can really say for sure. These are probably born in south america in a controlled environment.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

wallago2111 said:


> I don't know who all you are but I find it so ridiculous that you can say just because you have'nt seen fry or eggs the fish has not been spawned. I haven't seen oxygen but I am not so narrow minded as to assume therefore it doesn't exist. I have been breeding fish for probably more years then you are old and I would never make a statement like you just did. I have seen both of the objectives in your request, eggs and fry, I have seen these because I have bred them. I really don't care if you belive me or not but have promised Frank that I will document the full breed next spawn. I hope you will be satisfied at that point, because thats all you are going to get.I love this hobby and I am very upset with all the name calling and acusations that get thrown around. I wish for just once people would look at who they are talking about and realize this man deserves your respect if nothing more, he has ,as I, nothing to prove to those who only want to attack. I am not going to respond to any attacks here but am happy to answer responsible questions.


 I agree totaly. And would like to thank you for contributing. I can say for me that frank is the man







And you too for sharing.







Thanks again.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

wallago2111 said:


> I have seen both of the objectives in your request, eggs and fry, I have seen these because I have bred them.





> i believe you guys. but i think before posting it on a website like franks, there should be proof to back it up, that's all.


What proof would you seek? A picture of eggs or fry? How would that look any different than typical nattereri eggs and fry? You have a member stating he recieved very juvinile caribe and they are in fact caribe and you have another member (a VERY reputable member I might add) saying he has bred them. The proof you seek is above. Only reasonable questions/posts now please.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

Xenon said:


> The proof you seek is above.


 where? a small fish? that doesn't mean they were bred...

even the guy who posted it said he doesn't know where they were from..

what kind of proof is a small fish?

i wanna drop this, but that is not proof.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> i wanna drop this, but that is not proof.


what form of proof do you seek? I believe you are in a logical infinity, like a dog chasing his tail. The kind of "proof" you require does not exist.



> i wanna drop this, but that is not proof.


Your continuing posts indicate otherwise.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

well i still have to debate my side...saying just because a fish is about an inch long so it's bred in captivity is crap and you know it.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> well i still have to debate my side...saying just because a fish is about an inch long so it's bred in captivity is crap and you know it.


I am referring to the very reputable member who just posted he has bred cariba in captivity, not Raptor or o snap's posts. Now which proof do you seek?


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Do the humeral spots on Caribe frys show at that early stage?? I dont remember if Caribas look almost identical to Reds when babies having the spots.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> goldfish chunks in teeth Posted on May 22 2003, 10:03 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> okay okay okay....
> 
> ...


I don't think you are qualified nor have the credentials to tell me what I can or cannot post at OPEFE web site. Take it or leave it. The information is there with the support of those who have bred this fish. And I honor their requests not to release the methods of how these fish are bred. Perhaps if you were not so immature and inflammatory you might have gained insight on how its done. But since you have joined _the ranks of the fish over the falls,_ you'll get no further help from me.

Debating with you is pointless, reminescent of another person of the same caliber of ability to retain knowledge beyond their scope of comprehension.

I suggest to other members of pfury to look closely at what the objective of this person is. Its certainly not to learn but to inflame.

Enjoy debating yourself.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> well i still have to debate my side...


what you are doing is not debating. You have argued yourself in a corner and and the only defense you have is to take the side that always has an out....where you seek "proof" that really doesnt prove anything and does not exist. It is the sure sign of an intellectual coward.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Debating with you is pointless, reminescent of another person of the same caliber of ability to retain knowledge beyond their scope of comprehension.
> 
> I suggest to other members of pfury to look closely at what the objective of this person is. Its certainly not to learn but to inflame.
> 
> Enjoy debating yourself.


 are you f*cking kidding me?

you drop in every hour with some cocky comment, and you call it debating? I know everyone around this board is all on your nuts, but i'm not buying it frank.

you can't just stop in, say something, then say debating with someone is pointless. i called you out frank. that scares you because maybe it will scare your little fan club away.

if you have info than you are a selfish man for not sharing it with all of these people, that's all.

anybody else would post discoveries in a hearbeat.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

It's your choice. I believe it. O.k How long do you think it takes to get these fish. Contain them in holding tanks. Pass approval by brazillian import agents, Ship, price them and sell them. I'd sure as hell say 3 weeks at least. Well they have grown an avearge of 1to 1 and a half inces a month. So How did the fishermen distinguish these accurately. Hmmmmm Coincidence. NO
I'm not picking anything just stating my questions.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

Xenon said:


> It is the sure sign of an intellectual coward.


 nice...really nice.

frank just said he had proof but he doesn't want to share it because he promised somebody...

so there is proof out there...

i just wanted to know what it was.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > It is the sure sign of an intellectual coward.
> ...


Then it begs the question, I ask again, what is the proof? You are arguing until you see the "proof"....how can you argue to the termination of something you cant identify? I am confused, please let me know the proof you seek so we can bring a resolution to this disgusting thread.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

i don't know.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> goldfish chunks in teeth Posted on May 22 2003, 10:30 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (hastatus @ May 22 2003, 04:23 PM)
> 
> ...


*you can't just stop in, say something, then say debating with someone is pointless. i called you out frank. that scares you because maybe it will scare your little fan club away.* By those remarks, you insult the entire Pfury members. They are not _my fan club_ but people wanting to learn about piranas beyond the books and nonsense Hollywood movies and BS web sites that continue to author bad information.

BTW, at my age junior, I seriously doubt you could scare me at all.

*if you have info than you are a selfish man for not sharing it with all of these people, that's all. * Excuse me? An hour or so ago, you didn't even know P. cariba was bred in captivity by hobbyists.

*anybody else would post discoveries in a hearbeat. *

_Anybody else would have an ego problem and use it for profit._ I chose not publish anything on these fish without the expressed approval BY THE PEOPLE breeding this fish. If I posted against their wishes and used myself as the author not only would it be unethical but also dishonest. That young man is called integrity. So you have problem with the actual information on how to breed P. cariba not being available to you, take it up with them not me.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

ok sorry.










you may have one the fish battle frank...

but you will never win the fish war...

we need to get this guy on of those life shirts..

fish are life!!! i wish i spent every breathing second of the day looking at fishies too, but i can't.

you won frank. im sorry.

p.s. when the autographed photos come out. i don't want one.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> goldfish chunks in teeth Posted on May 22 2003, 11:05 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ok sorry.
> 
> ...


This was NOT about winning, but educating you. Sorry you saw it any other way.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

my ass.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> my ass.


that about sums up this thread. Please dont make another one this time.


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Rofl, this is almost as dumb as sexing natts. Goldfish, since you have absolutely no knowledge of breeding cariba (until just recently) how are you able to tell the entire fish community what is fact and what is not? How many reputable people have to say they know this for fact before you'll get the picture? You wanted pictures, someone gave you one. You want to know about bred cariba and more than one has told you. What is left to prove, it being printed on Frank's web site? That's ludicrous, if this thread doesn't convince you then nothing ever will short of you owning a breeding pair of cariba. Time to get a clue buddy.

Now to your retarded comments about Frank. Do you have any idea why so many people jump on the uneducated trash that try to discredit him with half-baked "theories" like yours? It's because he has contributed infinitely more than anyone else here to the hobby. Aside from that he has yet to make unsubstantiated claims or other bs that I see on fish forums like some kind of typed cancer. People like you are ungrateful towards the people who have made owning piranhas not only easier but the hoards of information, not to mention ignorant of all of this. Unfortunately all the time spent trying to educate is pretty much wasted. Maybe once you have "scientist" attached to your name you can say something about cariba with any sort of authority, but until then you're just another ignorant fish keeper trying to make them look smarter than they are. But since you're not a scientist you might want to use this time reading instead of arguing an issue that's clearly way out of your league.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

omg...

first of all neo, it's a f*cking fish board okay...stop crying, get off your damn soapbox and sh*t, your just as bad as frank.

a pm would have worked just fine...

f*ck you neo. c*nt.


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## LouiCypher (Mar 10, 2003)

Close?


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> f*ck you neo. c*nt.












~Dj


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

goldfish chunks in teeth said:


> omg...
> 
> first of all neo, it's a f*cking fish board okay...stop crying, get off your damn soapbox and sh*t, your just as bad as frank.
> 
> ...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

thought I closed this....damn.. actually reconsider...let it fly gentlemen. This thread was formed on an argument...lets see it fought to the death!









I advise anyone with half a brain to X out this topic now.


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## DiXoN (Jan 31, 2003)

i think this is getting out of hand ,gcit to use your own words 'it's a f*cking fish board okay' take a chill pill or you may get banned and its not worth it.
when people do the' i need proof' thing it can get out of hand and i mean everybody on this one some times it is nessecary and some times it is not i would go for the not in this case.
i heard about cariba being captive bred ages ago and some were for sale on pfish it is common knowledge you must have missed it .
i also heard the people did not want to be named i dont know why but that was up to them they possibly did not want people pestering them for fish constantly who knows but we all know who it is now.
what would they get out of declaring it was them if they are not breeding and selling them constantly on a very large scale we not going to put them on a pedestle for breeding fish .
good luck to them and i hope they do make sh*t loads of money out of it 
dixon


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> overbite Posted on May 23 2003, 12:20 AM ....they possibly did not want people pestering them for fish constantly


Exactly their point and the constant harrassment for them to _prove it_. This thread here clearly demonstrates what can happen and in particular those that have petty jealousy's will surface ruining opportunities for hobbyists to glean useful information that can help them breed their own species of P. cariba.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

what I dont understand is why people cant let people handle their own arguements, we dont need everybody else chimming in









and a pre-imptive








for the person who is most likely going to reply with "and you are a good person to get advice from on this topic"


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> what I dont understand is why people cant let people handle their own arguements, we dont need everybody else chimming in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I know you don't understand, perhaps some day.

Always the classy one eh Nate? It would be nice to have responses that don't use some form of vulgarity, but maybe I'm wishing for too much. Though I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, it confuses me.

Frank, maybe when more people have success breeding them there won't be this hiding in the shadows thing. If I had the floor space I'd have a setup just to end some of this foolishness.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I believed they were bred, never said I didnt, I was the first to suggest it at Pfish when one of the dealers had pics of Cariba under 2"

I see you understood my message


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> I believed they were bred, never said I didnt, I was the first to suggest it at Pfish when one of the dealers had pics of Cariba under 2"
> 
> I see you understood my message


 I see you didn't understand mine as I said I didn't understand yours.









Good for you, do you want a medal? Never said that you had stated one way or the other, I hadn't even mentioned you or implied you until now.

Mike, where's that damned rolleyes emoticon? Make one already!


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

Neoplasia said:


> Good for you, do you want a medal?


 a chocolate chip cookie will do


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Neoplasia Posted on May 23 2003, 02:59 AM ....Frank, maybe when more people have success breeding them there won't be this hiding in the shadows thing.


 You think? might lead to *SuperNate Cariba Breeding* in big bold letters. You know the ego thing









Seriously though, this thread is like a bad B movie. Enjoy, going to go watch re-runs on TV, which is kind of like being here with Nate.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

ssshh, you werent supposed to tell


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> what I dont understand is why people cant let people handle their own arguements, we dont need everybody else chimming in
> 
> 
> 
> ...












Nate, get a grip!


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## Piranha King (Nov 28, 2002)

Serrapygo said:


> Sir Nathan XXI said:
> 
> 
> > what I dont understand is why people cant let people handle their own arguements, we dont need everybody else chimming in
> ...


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

a got a grip on that cookie Neo owes me


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

I don't remember offering a cookie. I do have that medal though; unfortunately I can't check to see if it's warrented or not, so I'll save it for another day.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

That guy is crazy i tells you! I had a captive bred Cariba and i have seen the pair of breeding Cariba too. But since i have no pics i guess you guys can just trust me. I dont see a reason why i would lie about this. I had to sell that captive bred Cariba because i need money. It was one of the worse thing i had to do in all my fish hobby years.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Sir Nathan XXI....I was the first to suggest it at Pfish when one of the dealers had pics of Cariba under 2"


Actually Nate you are telling 1/2 truth there. I originally published P. cariba breeding in 1994 via the published OPEFE Journal of Piranhas and other Predatory Fishes, then Pira-news2000 an email list. Then talked about it several times via the original and present Predatory Fish. So while you might take credit for a photo opt. that son is the extent of it. You are not only several years late, but your comments only took place probably a bit over a year a go or less.

Give credit Nate, try to give credit to other people. You'll feel better about yourself.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

This thread is over...shouldve closed it hours ago..


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