# Tank wont cycle, I dont understand?



## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

Ok ive had a bare tank cycling with minnows and 2 koi now for 30 days today. I dont have any rocks, or a heater in it yet, and the water is still really cloudy. I have had a amonia and nitrite spike, and now the nitrates are reading 60 but the water just will not clear up. Ive tried doing 20, 30, and 50% water changes but its still cloudy. I dont overfeed the minnows or the koi, and there is nothing else put in to make the water cloudy. now to the wierd part, tested my water today and here we go

TEMP-74 
ph-8
amonia-0
nitrite-1.5
nitrate-30

I havnt changed any filter media at all, i did the 50% water change about a week ago, do you think since im lacking gravel and a heater that im not getting enough bacteria to keep up with the bio load?
thanks









EDIT: Another thing, im getting brown algae like craaaaaaazy


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

I would throw some gravel in it. Most of the baceria lives within the substerate, which in your case might be your problem. I get the brown algea to, dont worry about that!


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

since i dont have a heater on the tank, and the temp is so low, would water temperature effect how much good bacteria i have too?

Ill be throwing in some gravel tomorrow, ive just been too lazy because i usually have to clean my filter no mattter how much i wash the gravel, and then that would kill a lot of bacteria and start the cycle all over. I guess i could turn the filter off while the dust settles but then the dust will be on the bottom of the tank.
thanks


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

bump bump bump it up


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

timmy said:


> I would throw some gravel in it. Most of the baceria lives within the substerate, which in your case might be your problem. I get the brown algea to, dont worry about that!
> [snapback]1098664[/snapback]​


WRONG answer. Very little bacteria lives in the substrate.

You are not finished cycling yet, as you are still showing Nitrites.

Brown algae comes from too much light. Reduce artificial andnatural lighting.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> timmy said:
> 
> 
> > I would throw some gravel in it. Most of the baceria lives within the substerate, which in your case might be your problem. I get the brown algea to, dont worry about that!
> ...


My bad, i worded it wrong, and yes bacteria does live in substrate!


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## sccavee (Feb 11, 2003)

Another thing stop changing water. As long as you keep changing water you will never complete the cycle.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

You can change the water during a cycle, BUT it is not needed.

Don't do a change until you are done, then do a 50%.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Having no heater during the summer should not affect your cycle unless your water is below 76 degrees. Can take up to 6 weeks if you overdue the ammonia source.


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## Bluegill (Nov 28, 2003)

Perhaps this is a stupid question, but I don't see it anywhere. you do have a filter on this tank right?

If so, what type of filter, and what type of media are you running in it?


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## Bluegill (Nov 28, 2003)

One more thing, have you tested your tap water? Your tank water seems to be awfully alkaline, and you may find that you need to get some pH down other suh product to get it rolling in the right direction.

Or two things . . . your cloudiness, what color is it. you could also have an algae bloom in the tank. Can you test for phosphate?


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

This tank is nothing particularly special. Its a 26 gallon bowfront i picked up at my lfs really cheap (10$) some guy gave it to them when he bought a new tank so i got a steal. Im setting it up as a community tank for my girlfriend to mess with. Im just not letting her add fish till it cycles.

Filter is a standard HOB filter rated for a 40-60 gallon tank. It has bio bags filled with carbon and i used some bio fiber stuff in the media baskets.

I just put rocks and driftwood in the tank yesterday.

As for my ph, i thought below 7 was alkaline, 7 was neutral, and above 7 was acidic? am i wrong? my ph is stable in all my tanks (piranha and other tanks are the same and stable) so im just leaving it. I would rather just leave it acidic and stable than mess with fluctuations.

Someone mentioned above that if the water is below 76 degrees it can have a hard time cycling, this was what i was first guessing also. My water is the same temperate as my room, 73-74 degrees untill i buy a new heater.

My water is basically the same today as it was the other day, although the nitrites dropped and nitrates went up

TEMP-74 
ph-8
amonia-0
nitrite-1
nitrate- somewhere around 60 i think

the cloudiness is not from an algae bloom, its bacterial. When i got my amonia and nitrtie spikes it took off, its getting better and better by the day

So what do you guys think, wait another week or is it not cycling right because of no heater OR my PH :laugh:


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

jerry_plakyda said:


> Having no heater during the summer should not affect your cycle unless your water is below 76 degrees. Can take up to 6 weeks if you overdue the ammonia source.
> [snapback]1100954[/snapback]​


heres that guy, my tanks 73-74 degrees right now, im buying a heater as soon as money permits. As for my amonia source, i have 10 small minnows and 2 3" coi in the tank pooping, i feed them color flakes but i stopped overfeeding after my amonia spike.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

pics- you can see how the water is still cloudy, but isnt as clear as it should be. It just suprises me a 26gal is taking this long to cycle

sorry for sh*t cam, its an ancient HP 1.3mp but its all i have right now, im a poor college boy living with my grandparents


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## Bluegill (Nov 28, 2003)

Uh, Clintard, a pH of 8.0 is alkaline, see below. Although your P's may survive it, they prefer slightly acidic water.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

ok im sorry, i guess i had it ass backwards again, my bad SORRY


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

clintard_leonard said:


> the cloudiness is not from an algae bloom, its bacterial. When i got my amonia and nitrtie spikes it took off, its getting better and better by the day
> [snapback]1101197[/snapback]​


Not necessarily. Green Algae is triggered by ammonia in the water, and then later scavenges other sources of nitrogen (nitrates) when pure ammonia is not available. Having the lights on during the cycle might be a major culprit in your problems.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

lol its not algae dude, i have brown algae like everyone else, but once the tank is cycled ill throw my easy balance in and walla no more brown algae plus extremely clear water. Tank lights arent on much at all, i turned the lights on for pics, and ocassionally i will watch the fish in it when im bored. i know green algae when i see it, im not retarded,

bring on the speech twitcho


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

clintard_leonard said:


> lol its not algae dude, i have brown algae like everyone else, but once the tank is cycled ill throw my easy balance in and walla no more brown algae plus extremely clear water. Tank lights arent on much at all, i turned the lights on for pics, and ocassionally i will watch the fish in it when im bored. i know green algae when i see it, im not retarded,
> 
> bring on the speech twitcho
> [snapback]1101382[/snapback]​


It seems like you don't want to take anyones advice, or comments. If you alreday know everything, WHY ASK?


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

i dont think i know everything, im not near as knowledgable as you guys, but its NOT algae i know that much, sorry


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## rbp75 (May 2, 2004)

try putting some bio media like cell pore or bio max, carbon and the fiber are just mechanical and chemical filtration, You will get a little bio filtration from them but they dont have enough surface area for the bacteria, Plus you will have to change them after a month and will lose all of your biological bacteria.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Imo opinion, my bad i should have picked up on this sooner, is that the 12 fish you have in there is too much of an ammonia source for 26 gallons. Be patient and ride it out or remove some minnows.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

i see what your saying, so my bad, im sorry

i figured by overstocking the tank like this, and letting it cycle, then it would handle the bio load better when i removed all the fish in it now and put her new fish in it


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Too much ammonia can slow your cycle down to a crawl.....


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## ~Silly~Spy (Mar 12, 2005)

jerry_plakyda said:


> Imo opinion, my bad i should have picked up on this sooner, is that the 12 fish you have in there is too much of an ammonia source for 26 gallons. Be patient and ride it out or remove some minnows.
> [snapback]1102621[/snapback]​


you think 100 feeders in a 150gal is too much ammonia? i'm having cycling probs too


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

~Silly~Spy said:


> jerry_plakyda said:
> 
> 
> > Imo opinion, my bad i should have picked up on this sooner, is that the 12 fish you have in there is too much of an ammonia source for 26 gallons. Be patient and ride it out or remove some minnows.
> ...


What do your numbers look like Silly Spy?


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## ~Silly~Spy (Mar 12, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> ~Silly~Spy said:
> 
> 
> > jerry_plakyda said:
> ...


ammonia :8
nitrites: 0
nitrates: 0 
and ph is : 7.0
the only reason i asked in this thread is because clintard is banned


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

~Silly~Spy said:


> ammonia :8
> nitrites: 0
> nitrates: 0
> and ph is : 7.0
> ...


What did you use to seed the tank as far as bacteria is concerned?

That ammonia level is too high and will hinder your cycle. Anything above 5 ppm IMHO is too high to cycle. Since you have an ammonia spike, no nitrites and no nitrates, you are still at the very early stages of cycling.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

~Silly~Spy said:


> jerry_plakyda said:
> 
> 
> > Imo opinion, my bad i should have picked up on this sooner, is that the 12 fish you have in there is too much of an ammonia source for 26 gallons. Be patient and ride it out or remove some minnows.
> ...


Absolutely. imo 20 feeders is enough for your tank.


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## malicious1 (Jul 4, 2005)

Bluegill said:


> Uh, Clintard, a pH of 8.0 is alkaline, see below. Although your P's may survive it, they prefer slightly acidic water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so pretty much you wanna a ph of..7 ?


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## Bluegill (Nov 28, 2003)

Anything in the 6.5 to 7.0 range is preferred for P's


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Bluegill said:


> Anything in the 6.5 to 7.0 range is preferred for P's
> [snapback]1123115[/snapback]​


It is said that the ideal pH for piranha is 6.9.

That being said, a stable pH that is somewhat high (up to 8.0 in most cases), is better for a fish then lets say a modified pH that is lower but is jumping around. In most cases for the hobbyist, it is better to let the pH where it is at, and let the fish adapt.

One thhing to note is that ammonia is more toxic to a fish when the pH is higher. So it is important to always maintain youur tank properly. But that is a given and is true even for lower pH water.


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