# RBP's Dying, High nitrites?? Parameters listed!!



## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

Hey all, I have a 35 gallon with 3 1" rbp, my brother has a 30 gallon with 3 1" rbp

We didnt know we were supposed to cycle our water so the water only sat without fish for about 3 days before we put the fish in. My tank also had some leftover community fish in it that i gave to a friend so i think it might be more cycled than his. Weve had our tanks up and running for about 3 weeks now, and 2 of his fish just died, and all of mine are swimming funky and turning pale.

Here are the water parameters taken with a master test kit called Tetra Test Laborett

Me
Ph- 8.4
General Hardness= 9 dH
Carbonate Hardness= 5 dH
Amonia=0
nitrite=1.6mg/l
c02= 0.0mg/l

mikey-
ph=8.4	
general hardness=10dH
carbonate hardness=6dH
amonia=0
nitrite=1.9mg/l
co2=0.8mg/l

Is it possible that having high nitrites is poisining them and killing them? 
WHat should we do people, im sorry we didnt cycle we learned our lesson!!
Thanks


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

pH lvl needs to be 7.0... Piranhas are picky about that, other then that i dunno, what do you mean swimming around funky and turning pale? my p's turn pale when i have light on them all day and if you mean "swimming around funky" as in them darting all over the place and stuff in that nature you have nothing to worry about, good luck


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

Your tank size is also good for a while with a 1" p


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

Well i heard that piranhas dont care what ph level is, as long as it dosnt fluctuate, which it dosnt. Can high nitrites be bad for fish? i did a 25% water change and they seem to be a little better. will test again later

Im going to get some PH down and put it in as soon as i get the money, right now im broke and i dont know how to do it without chemicals


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I think this needs to be moved to water chemistry.


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

it may be because of that, just keep doin 25% water changes every couple days or something, and make sure you put in the right amount of drops to kill your chlorine


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

The pH is pretty high indeed, but it's a later concern: you gotta focus on the nitrItes first.
Since you have zero ammonia and high nitrItes, it means the cycle is beyond halfway: soon, the nitrItes will slowly go back to zero, and you'll find your nitrAte readings on the increase: once the nitrItes are down to zero, and you have detectable nitrAtes, your tank is done.
To deal with the high nitrItes, the best you can do is add a teaspoon of salt, which will decrease the chances of nitrIte poisoning. Small daily water changes (10-15%) may keep the nitrItes artificially low, which reduces the risks of poisoning even further, but it will prolong the remaining process a bit: I'd still do it, if I were you.

Once the nitrItes are gone, and you have detectable amounts of nitrAtes, do a good water change (25-30%), and your tank is cycled.
As soon as that is the case, we can start looking at how to deal with the high pH - it's best to deal ith one problem at the time.

Good luck, and hopefully your little guys make it









*_Moved to Water Chemistry_*


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The only issue with the ph is that it will make ammonia more toxic but in a cycled tank I wouldnt be worried about it. Jonas has given great advice about adding salt to help with the high nitrites, and the water changes.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

I did a 30% water change already, they are swimming a little better, im going to test the nitrites in a while, i dont have a test for nitrAtes though so i cant tell what they are,

Can someone explain to me what the difference between nitrites and nitrates in lamens terms for me

Also, could it be my live plants? it happened overnight and i know that they take the oxygen out of the water at night and produce it in the day, maybe they werent getting enough oxygen?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

clintard_leonard said:


> Can someone explain to me what the difference between nitrites and nitrates in lamens terms for me[snapback]963430[/snapback]​











The nitrogen cycle in short: ammonia => nitrItes => nitrAtes

NitrItes are converted into nitrAtes by certain bacteria which reside in your tank (mainly in the filter media and gravel, but also on all other surfaces): cycling a tank is basically no more than getting enough bacteria in your tank to break down all waste products into less toxic ones (there are two types: those that convert ammonia, which is released from urine/poop and when food leftovers, plants and dead animals start to decay, into nitrItes, and those that convert nitrItes into nitrAtes) - because these bacteria need to multiply to become numberous enough to deal with the toxins, the cycling process takes some time (on average 4-5 weeks).
I don't know the whole process in detail (so what exactly happens and why), however.

Ammonia and NitrItres are very dangerous to fish, even in relatively low amounts, whereas the final product of the cycle is not nearly as dangerous (although you should never let the amounts skyrocket) - nitrAtes are removed by live plants and by performing water changes.

As far as your live plants go: I doubt they were the cause: I think you'll need an extremely densely planted tank to jeopardise the wellbeing of your fish at night.
A bubble wall, or placing the outlet of a filter at surface height (which stirs the surface), increase the oxygenation of your tank.


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## mattd46612 (Mar 8, 2005)

Piranhas have been found in 8+ PH waters but its generally not a good idea to go much above the low-mid 7s. And if memory serves me it is Serra Ps not Pygo Ps that are found in higher PH waters. 10-15% water changes daily, some salt and SLOWLY drop the PH to the low 7s.


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

Some pretty damn good info goin on here....


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

I agree and i thank you all for being so awsome, ive been member of a lot of forums, but never one that gets so many replies so fast. Awsome guys, i will be with you for a long long time


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

One tablespoon of pre-dissolved salt is enough to prevent nitrIte poisoning (blood poisoning), for approximately 300 gallons. I would recommend you do that to allow the p's gills to function better.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

uh oh, i added the salt, but i didnt disolve it, they are doing A LOOOOT better than thery were, they owe there lifes to u guys, thanks a lot

ooh and i hope iodized table salt is alright,
should i disolve some more salt and put it in?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Iodized table salt is fine and you dont need to add any more, it will desolve on its own.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

clintard_leonard said:


> ooh and i hope iodized table salt is alright,
> should i disolve some more salt and put it in?
> [snapback]963786[/snapback]​


Yup, table salt is fine, even with iodine: the salt would have killed the fish long before the amount of iodine reach critical levels.

Also, I'd dissolve the salt before putting it in the tank, just to be on the safe side. Yes, it'll dissolve in time, but if you accidentally drop the salt on a fish, he'll suffer from horrendous burn injuries. And even if the chances of that happening are very small, why risk it? Just imagine you're that one in a thousand that has bad luck, and accidentally spills the salt right on top of a fish...
It takes less than a minute to dissolve the salt in a glass of warm water.


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## clintard_leonard (Mar 24, 2005)

how does the salt help the fish exactly?
My fish are doing just fine now, looking and acting really healthy, been doing 25% water changes every other day since they got sick and it seems to be working, also added a little too much salt but i figured the water changes would take care of that 
thanks for your help guys!


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

clintard_leonard said:


> how does the salt help the fish exactly?
> My fish are doing just fine now, looking and acting really healthy, been doing 25% water changes every other day since they got sick and it seems to be working, also added a little too much salt but i figured the water changes would take care of that
> thanks for your help guys!
> [snapback]970791[/snapback]​


The salt displaces nitrites away from the gill membrane allowing gills to function.


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