# shipping piranhas



## rockymax (Feb 12, 2007)

whats the deal on shipping piranhas into illegal states. do people/ can people usually do that or is there some kinda of reprocussion? do any of our sponsors? i just wasnt sure if you can actually ship piranhas into states where theyre illegal


----------



## xxwhookiddxx (Jan 10, 2007)

its possible if your shipping within the states


----------



## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

People do it, it is still illegal.

There may be reprocussions since it can constitute a Federal offense.


----------



## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

People will ship to illegal states; however, as stated above it is still illegal. If you are cought with an illegal fish they can destory the fish, fine you, and/or possible jail time depending on the state and offense. I doubt that jail time would be handed out for illegal fish, but a fine would definitely be on the docket.

Call around to different people/sponsers to see who might/will ship to you.


----------



## LFSuperfly144 (Feb 7, 2005)

I dont think alot of people (law enforcement) would really care about the shipping of illegal fish, seems a little crazy but still is a treat i guess


----------



## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

I know one Sponsor that ships. But I would rather not say who. And you also dont wanna leave a trail back to the sponsor so money order would be the way of funds


----------



## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

It is not really law enforcement, but your local state's DNR program that would enforce the laws.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Federal law, the Lacey Act, is the primary reason why reputable dealers do not send into states were piranhas are prohibited. The reprocussions from local law is small compared to federal.


----------



## xxwhookiddxx (Jan 10, 2007)

the only people that care about catching you for illegal fish are the wild life cops or whatever theyre called


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Big Jon Posted Today, 10:11 AM
> the only people that care about catching you for illegal fish are the wild life cops or whatever theyre called


And? All it takes is one phone call from a concerned citizen and you (the hobbyist) can face stiff fines and possible jail time (read some of the threads here on such cases). As for the dealer, they can lose their licenses and permits, not to mention minimum fines of $10,000 or 5 years imprisonment.

In a society where money talks (government) busting a dealer for selling illegal fish can add money to the kitty.


----------



## rockymax (Feb 12, 2007)

Coldfire said:


> People will ship to illegal states; however, as stated above it is still illegal. If you are cought with an illegal fish they can destory the fish, fine you, and/or possible jail time depending on the state and offense. I doubt that jail time would be handed out for illegal fish, but a fine would definitely be on the docket.
> 
> Call around to different people/sponsers to see who might/will ship to you.


its not illegal where i live, i live in PA. I was just curious because of it being illegal in several states


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

For PA read this: http://www.readingeagle.com/blog/editorial...snt_best_w.html

If the trend continues, you may lose them.


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

LFSuperfly144 said:


> I dont think alot of people (law enforcement) would really care about the shipping of illegal fish, seems a little crazy but still is a treat i guess


If they didn't care then they wouldn't be illegal. there are some very valid reasons why they are illegal along with other fish taht are illegal in certain areas. Most of these reasons don't really apply to the "responsible" fish keeper. however the sad truth is there are more idiots in this hobby then responsible educated ones. Hence the reason for these laws.


----------



## Trivium160 (Mar 7, 2007)

our sponsers ship them, trust me. just order them you should have no issue's unless you promote it or do something stupid. be responsible keep them in yer tank.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Trivium160 Posted Today, 05:57 PM
> *our sponsers ship them, trust me.* just order them you should have no issue's unless you promote it or do something stupid. be responsible keep them in yer tank.


Oh really? Please list them here, so that they can respond.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Trivium160 said:


> our sponsers ship them, trust me. just order them you should have no issue's unless *you promote it or do something stupid*. be responsible keep them in yer tank.


You mean like posting about it on a public forum









Thats just brilliant...and as far as I know...none of our sponsors will ship to a state where they are illegal.


----------



## 77gp454 (Feb 18, 2007)

hastatus said:


> For PA read this: http://www.readingeagle.com/blog/editorial...snt_best_w.html
> 
> If the trend continues, you may lose them.


That would be the last straw for me being in PA, the ONLY thing I do like about it here is Ps are legal! Otherwise PA:


----------



## 77gp454 (Feb 18, 2007)

Trivium, some M.R. kids I work with want to play chess with you for big money!


----------



## p1ranha (Jan 28, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> our sponsers ship them, trust me. just order them you should have no issue's unless *you promote it or do something stupid*. be responsible keep them in yer tank.


You mean like posting about it on a public forum









[/quote]


----------



## monstermatt (Feb 2, 2007)

p1ranha said:


> our sponsers ship them, trust me. just order them you should have no issue's unless *you promote it or do something stupid*. be responsible keep them in yer tank.


You mean like posting about it on a public forum









[/quote]









[/quote]
yeah no sponsors ship to illeagal states and i fhtey did and you said that on a forum like this u should be taken behind the wood shed


----------



## lordniko (Mar 11, 2007)

GO for it







I live in illegal state and get P's shipped to me all the time. no one cares. i got arrested for a warrant i had and when the cops came into my house they saw my aquariam and asked me if those were pirahanas and i said yeah and he said WOW that's cool. if it was really a big deal the mijority of this fourm would be behind bars.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> amazonlife Posted Today, 08:42 AM
> GO for it I live in illegal state and get P's shipped to me all the time. no one cares. i got arrested for a warrant i had and when the cops came into my house they saw my aquariam and asked me if those were pirahanas and i said yeah and he said WOW that's cool. if it was really a big deal the mijority of this fourm would be behind bars.


Knock off the BS. You've already had one topic locked up. Comments like that only make you look stupid.


----------



## lordniko (Mar 11, 2007)

what make it stupid? am i lying when i say the mijoirity of the people here live in illegal states? nothing i said is a lie. and authorites really don't care about P's.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> amazonlife Posted Today, 09:26 AM
> what make it stupid? am i lying when i say the mijoirity of the people here live in illegal states? nothing i said is a lie. and authorites really don't care about P's.


Since you asked, let's look at your statement:



> amazonlife Posted Today, 08:42 AM
> *1. GO for it I live in illegal state and get P's shipped to me all the time. no one cares.*
> 
> _That invites people to break the law in the state. It also makes you liable for promoting illegal activity._
> ...


----------



## lordniko (Mar 11, 2007)

ok well i guess you make vaild points.


----------



## marauderrt10 (Nov 21, 2006)

Big Jon said:


> the only people that care about catching you for illegal fish are the wild life cops or whatever theyre called


Thats who i work for. I am along with my friend, the youngest Wild life officers in all of NY. We can have any fish we want







As far as illegal fish go, we are suppose to take the fish from you, and hit you with a big fine. Just last week i gave a resturant owner in the city a 10,000$ fine for having over 200 piranhas in his restaurant without a license. I would just take the wild life permit exam for all types fish so you can legally own any type of fish. Just my .02


----------



## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I don't think that the permits extend to all fishes.


----------



## marauderrt10 (Nov 21, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> I don't think that the permits extend to all fishes.


You are partially correct. You can take an exam for one specific type of fish, pretty simple, they give you 100 questions pertaining to that fish. You can request that you would like to receive the license for all types of fish, which is around 300 questions or so regarding types of fish that are allowed by your state.


----------



## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Do you see how that's different from "you can have any fish you want"?


----------



## marauderrt10 (Nov 21, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> Do you see how that's different from "you can have any fish you want"?


lol if you want to be literal about it ill edit it to include the all types of fish permit


----------



## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

77gp454 said:


> For PA read this: http://www.readingeagle.com/blog/editorial...snt_best_w.html
> 
> If the trend continues, you may lose them.


That would be the last straw for me being in PA, the ONLY thing I do like about it here is Ps are legal! Otherwise PA:






















[/quote]

haha just move to jersey.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I would think getting permits to own fish would vary from state to state. If it were as easy as taking a test...I would think that more people would be open to that option then keeping fish illegally.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

My only wish is that DNR/F&W would just get the ID right. Too many instances of pacu being ID as piranha, particularly young ones. Texas (a recent case) mis-id'd pacus for Pygocentrus. The pet shop dealer (who spoke little English) thought he ordered pacus (ordered wrong) and the fish came in as piranha. The interesting thing is, the fish was not stopped at the airport. The complaint came from a customer who went by the sign on the tank "piranha". Not sure what the end result was as both D. Schleser and myself got involved with clearing up the ID. The guy was facing a huge, huge fine.


----------



## lordniko (Mar 11, 2007)

Marauderrt10 said:


> the only people that care about catching you for illegal fish are the wild life cops or whatever theyre called


Thats who i work for. I am along with my friend, the youngest Wild life officers in all of NY. We can have any fish we want







As far as illegal fish go, we are suppose to take the fish from you, and hit you with a big fine. Just last week i gave a resturant owner in the city a 10,000$ fine for having over 200 piranhas in his restaurant without a license. I would just take the wild life permit exam for all types fish so you can legally own any type of fish. Just my .02
[/quote]

did the resturant owner have them on display or was he serving them as food?


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Personally, I'd like to see a photo of these "piranhas" in the restaurant.


----------



## eczs-1 (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm going to add in my 2 cents as the new guy on the block and a sponser on this site.
You all think that this is a joke,but,with over 30 years in the business, I am in a much different postition.US Fish and Wildlife monitors these sites 24/7.They pose as sellers and buyers and are running sting operations currently.On another site they took down a load of people for Asian arowana out in California and are working on snakeheads,piranha,and stingrays as well.
These operations go on for 18-36 months and then the hammer comes down...the dreaded knock on the door.I also know that on other sites the owners are periodically requested to hand over IP addresses of members.
These people mean business and are alot more focused than the regular cop on the beat.They want you and they want the sellers out of business.You as the buyer just have your local laws to deal with and local DEC or wahtever you have is not equiped to go looking for you unless a complaint is made.However,because of the Lacey Act of 1900 the seller is open for prosecution on Federal statute for Interstate Transport of Illegal Goods.Most of these infractions carry thousands of dollars in fines. loss of our Federal import/export permits,and up to 3-5 years in Federal prison let alone the lawyer fees.
I state in my ads I will not ship to restricted states however,I am pushed to the wall by people demanding I do so because other sellers do it.
There is a simple solution to this-Buy from them.
If you doubt that the fish is illegal-prove it. You must provide me with the phone number of your local state Authority that contols the fish in question and I will call and verify that it is OK for you to have it.They say yes-the fish is on the way.They say No or you refuse to provide me with the number-you get nothing.
I honestly do not care about what anyone wants or what anyone else will do or has done in the past.I will not lose my business for a couple of dollar sale.I can go out and buy pot,cocaine,and whatever drugs I want-whenever I want...does not mean it is OK or legal or I will not someday be caught.And the sick thing about it is the boys in brown take these sales of restricted fish MORE SERIOUSLY than the regular police do illegal drugs.And they have the full compliment of servalience and info gathering power that the FBI has and they use it.
A customer of mine who was grabbed for Asian arawana got the knock at the door and was told before he said anything please read this...they gave him a folder 2 inches thick with every e-mail he had every sent mentioning those fish that was to be used against him in court.
All that for a few fish in his home tank.
It can never happen to you...until it does.
John


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> eczs-1 Posted Today, 01:05 PM
> I'm going to add in my 2 cents as the new guy on the block and a sponser on this site.
> You all think that this is a joke,but,with over 30 years in the business, I am in a much different postition.US Fish and Wildlife monitors these sites 24/7.They pose as sellers and buyers and are running sting operations currently.On another site they took down a load of people for Asian arowana out in California and are working on snakeheads,piranha,and stingrays as well.
> These operations go on for 18-36 months and then the hammer comes down...the dreaded knock on the door.I also know that on other sites the owners are periodically requested to hand over IP addresses of members.
> ...


Unfortunately, some of these so-called hobbyists (I use the term loosely) are as dumb as they can get. It's the problem of their youth and "it can't happen to me" mentality. As I early stated, THEY ARE the reason piranhas become illegal, not only for releasing them, but also bringing them in where it is not legal to own. And you are right, no $5 fish (baby pygocentrus) is worth losing your business or license because of an idiot.


----------



## eczs-1 (Nov 17, 2005)

hastatus said:


> Personally, I'd like to see a photo of these "piranhas" in the restaurant.


Frank,
Not sure about that one as there is no permit exam to keep piranha or any other fish in NY.I have a piranha permit to buy and sell in NY-all it takes is a 5 line application and a stamp and you get the permit valid for 5 years back in the mail.They do not even want you to keep records of who you sell the fish to.
However,these types of seizures go on all the time- in Chinatown especially.DEC is down there with F&W raiding restaurants,pet shops,and food sellers over turtles,frogs,arawana,etc.
Even if they mistake a pacu for a piranha you have to prove it in court if they want to press the issue.
Another friend of mine had a white cheek mud turtle in his shop.These come from Central America.A DEC officer came in a wrote him a ticket and fine for $1,000 for selling an Eastern mud turtle which is illegal in NY state.
They went to court and showed proof that the turtle was not an Eastern Mud turtle-protected species- but a white cheek mud -legal species-from Central America.
Judge looked at them and said,"A mud turtle is a mud turtle-fine upheld-Guilty." They talked the fine down to $350 with the prosecutor and left.
In wildlife law situations you are guilty until proven innocent and even then you are guilty.
John


----------



## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

Prime example of our shity justice system John.

Anyways....I agree with you Frank......It's people like this amazonlife guy who gives P hobbiests a bad name. I can tell that guy wants to release P's just from that stupid post that he made. Once again, idiots who jump into the hobby and think it is all a game and he is invinsible, and the law doesn't pertain to him. It is too bad that that they are like this, but they will never go away. There will always be 2 retards to replace the 1 that leaves the hobby.

I am just soooo glad to be as prevlaged as too live in a LEGAL state


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Good topic-

But I got a quick ? for either Frank-John,or n e one else that feels like answering it-

What does one think about an illegal fish brought into a state where it is restricted-

But on the other hand the fish that was brought in can do no harm in the surrounding area's-Take for instance if the fish was ever to be released-it could do very little harm on the ecosystem in that area-Sure it could do alittle damage but nothing major-It could even be out competed by native fish that are already here-But people still manage to bring them in-Just curious as to what your thoughts would be on something like this-

I also know one could just easily say-"well it's illegal-there-fore I shall not be done-Period".
But it just baffles me that they are still illegal in that area.

Sorry if none of that made ne sense too-


----------



## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

AK, morally I feel like certain species which have been made illegal "for good reason" (we can debate that later!) in other states should not be made illegal in all because they'd wreck the ecosystems of some. I also don't believe that the federal government should outlaw entire genera or families because of the destructive potential of some members of those larger groups. If they're going to hire biologists to help them determine the destructive power of some species in the groups of species, the biologists could (and should!) use their training to avoid letting the government stretch its authority to species which would not and could not destroy the ecosystems of every state. They should also have zoologists and biologists which can specifically research the harm caused by invasive species to a few special states whose climate and ecology are not at all akin to those of the other states. (Here, I am considering Alaska and Hawaii, among others.) It doesn't make sense to have a blanket law which affects the rights of Alaskans and Hawaiians but does not positively impact those states in any way, shape or form.


----------



## eczs-1 (Nov 17, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> Good topic-
> 
> But I got a quick ? for either Frank-John,or n e one else that feels like answering it-
> 
> ...


I don't think about it.
I just make sure I can not be approached.If the fish is restricted,I am not going to change the law and it is not going to be shipped by me.As long as any fish I sell is legally sold, I am a happy camper.
DEC in NY laughs at the restrictions on piranha...but they will grab you fast if they catch you with the fish and no permit.
Piranha are legal in NJ.If I sell to someone in NY that comes over the border and buys it from me IN NJ then I am fine but the person who bought it is the one who carried it over state lines and is open to have DEC at their door if someone turns them in.In that case,I have done nothing wrong.
Yes,the laws are not perfect in many more ways than the garbage with wildlife or tropical fish but the impacts of screwing around can be life changing especially if you happen on the wrong inspector or agent that has a hard on for anyone keeping live animals or does not like your attitude.
John


----------



## eczs-1 (Nov 17, 2005)

ChilDawg said:


> AK, morally I feel like certain species which have been made illegal "for good reason" (we can debate that later!) in other states should not be made illegal in all because they'd wreck the ecosystems of some. I also don't believe that the federal government should outlaw entire genera or families because of the destructive potential of some members of those larger groups. If they're going to hire biologists to help them determine the destructive power of some species in the groups of species, the biologists could (and should!) use their training to avoid letting the government stretch its authority to species which would not and could not destroy the ecosystems of every state. They should also have zoologists and biologists which can specifically research the harm caused by invasive species to a few special states whose climate and ecology are not at all akin to those of the other states. (Here, I am considering Alaska and Hawaii, among others.) It doesn't make sense to have a blanket law which affects the rights of Alaskans and Hawaiians but does not positively impact those states in any way, shape or form.


The states do have those biologists and other professionals who do make the determinations if species will be restricted or not.That is how the laws get made and passed.Of course,they are biased to their masters whims but that is the case with everything in a Democratic society.
You don't have to be right-just on the side that has the power.
Piranha are not illegal in every state-just the ones where they can usually survive 12 months out of the year and have potential to grow and reproduce.So are alot of other species.There are glitches and states where it seems to make no sense but we all still have to deal with it.
John


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

i think its foolish that its Illegal in NY....


----------



## eczs-1 (Nov 17, 2005)

Dawgz said:


> i think its foolish that its Illegal in NY....


So does DEC but they will happilly fine you and kill the fish if they find you without a permit.
Reason for the restriction-a group of piranha are alive and breeding in a 100yd stretch of outlet from the Bowline power plant where the hot water from the cooloing system is released back into the Hudson River.The water stays at around 74+ degrees even in -10 degree weather and is mostly freshwater so they thrive.The rest of the state-they would be dead come fall let alone winter.
Stupid-yes.
The law-yes.
Acknowleged that it is stupid by DEC-yes.
They catch you- you lose/they win.
That's life!!
John


----------



## lordniko (Mar 11, 2007)

Leasure1 said:


> Prime example of our shity justice system John.
> 
> Anyways....I agree with you Frank......It's people like this amazonlife guy who gives P hobbiests a bad name. I can tell that guy wants to release P's just from that stupid post that he made. Once again, idiots who jump into the hobby and think it is all a game and he is invinsible, and the law doesn't pertain to him. It is too bad that that they are like this, but they will never go away. There will always be 2 retards to replace the 1 that leaves the hobby.
> 
> I am just soooo glad to be as prevlaged as too live in a LEGAL state


OMFG! i don't want to release them i was just curious. you guys make such a big deal about people buying them in illegal states. THERE JUST FISH! it's not like your buying drugs or weapons of mass destruction. if someone has them in illegal states WHO CARES? its not your business.


----------



## TFMBIGDOG99 (Mar 19, 2006)

Just shutup, your IQ has already proven to be quite low, but now your just degrading it to retard/metally challenged level. John and Frank have said everything that needed to be said.


----------



## lordniko (Mar 11, 2007)

Jesus christ. there's no point debating with idiots like you. as for the rest i respect all of you and if you want to make a big deal about shipping and owning P's in an illegal state more power to you. and for the record I DONT WANT TO RELEASE P'S INTO THE WILD!


----------



## AndyShores11 (Feb 20, 2007)

eczs-1 said:


> AK, morally I feel like certain species which have been made illegal "for good reason" (we can debate that later!) in other states should not be made illegal in all because they'd wreck the ecosystems of some. I also don't believe that the federal government should outlaw entire genera or families because of the destructive potential of some members of those larger groups. If they're going to hire biologists to help them determine the destructive power of some species in the groups of species, the biologists could (and should!) use their training to avoid letting the government stretch its authority to species which would not and could not destroy the ecosystems of every state. They should also have zoologists and biologists which can specifically research the harm caused by invasive species to a few special states whose climate and ecology are not at all akin to those of the other states. (Here, I am considering Alaska and Hawaii, among others.) It doesn't make sense to have a blanket law which affects the rights of Alaskans and Hawaiians but does not positively impact those states in any way, shape or form.


The states do have those biologists and other professionals who do make the determinations if species will be restricted or not.That is how the laws get made and passed.Of course,they are biased to their masters whims but that is the case with everything in a Democratic society.
You don't have to be right-just on the side that has the power.
Piranha are not illegal in every state-just the ones where they can usually survive 12 months out of the year and have potential to grow and reproduce.So are alot of other species.There are glitches and states where it seems to make no sense but we all still have to deal with it.
John
[/quote]

I live in alabama, and I can tell you without doubt that a P could NOT survive in this state. Water temps get well below 55 in the winter - just wouldnt make it. Florida and Texas - pretty much the only states where a P would stand a chance


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I cannot speak for other states. I can also relate what I know from experience in Oregon and what it took to change the law and keep it legal to possess piranha.

Getting busted (in my case), did help because I was able to go into court and clear up the law on what was a piranha/caribe vs those that are not commonly known as piranha/caribe in South America. Oregon law was based on that assumption that commonly known as pertained to all species. In court, I was able to differentiate Pygocentrus (true piranha, considered potentially dangerous) as being commonly known as piranha/caribe by people trained to know the difference from Serrasalmus species and all others in the genera as Pirambeba (or not considered potentially dangerous). That was in 1993.

In 1995, I crafted a State law to revise Oregon law to allow possession of piranhas and caribes. In 2005, the ODFW tried again to prohibit piranhas/caribes and allow possession of pacus. Arnold (HOLLYWOOD) and Jeff (GROSSE GURKE) argued on my behalf and the hobbyists, that the new ODFW law was stupid. Why allow fish that are routinely dumped into Oregon waters as opposed to a rare piranha release. As of that date, there were no piranhas released in Oregon until that same year and a single one was caught in Portland. That release did not (fortunately) make it into the argument to ban piranhas.

All of this info is cataloged at OPEFE and I'm not going to go into much more detail on it. So yes, not everyone will go into court like I did to change law or change law in the legislature.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The problem I see is that, whether amazonlife would actually release fish in the wild is irrelevant...what he is doing it perpetuating a hysteria that has been used to get these fish banned.

Do you think it is easy to argue with "experts" from F&W in front of a senate committee? Do you realize you are a simple hobbyist and they are a government agency that is charged with regulating what you can and can not legally keep? 
The argument to ban these fish in Oregon was based on public concerns about the release of these fish in the wild. They fully acknowledged that these fish couldnt survive or reproduce....so your (amazonlife) comments about releasing these fish or shipping to illegal states feeds right into their argument and just gives them further justification to make the same attempt in other states...or even federally. You might not mean anything by it...but that is also irrelevant. You are the exact hobbyist that may/will eventually get these fish banned in currently legal states....You talk about things you know nothing about. You brag about breaking the law. You preach about how stupid the laws are. You talk about others breaking the law. If F&W is looking to put together a bill in a legal state....an idiot hobbyist like you would be a perfect poster child.
So...before you do any further damage to the real hobbyists on this forum...I suggest you be content to read about these fish...but dont actually make any comments...we will all be better off.


----------



## badman (Oct 29, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> The problem I see is that, whether amazonlife would actually release fish in the wild is irrelevant...what he is doing it perpetuating a hysteria that has been used to get these fish banned.
> 
> Do you think it is easy to argue with "experts" from F&W in front of a senate committee? Do you realize you are a simple hobbyist and they are a government agency that is charged with regulating what you can and can not legally keep?
> The argument to ban these fish in Oregon was based on public concerns about the release of these fish in the wild. They fully acknowledged that these fish couldnt survive or reproduce....so your (amazonlife) comments about releasing these fish or shipping to illegal states feeds right into their argument and just gives them further justification to make the same attempt in other states...or even federally. You might not mean anything by it...but that is also irrelevant. You are the exact hobbyist that may/will eventually get these fish banned in currently legal states....You talk about things you know nothing about. You brag about breaking the law. You preach about how stupid the laws are. You talk about others breaking the law. If F&W is looking to put together a bill in a legal state....an idiot hobbyist like you would be a perfect poster child.
> So...before you do any further damage to the real hobbyists on this forum...I suggest you be content to read about these fish...but dont actually make any comments...we will all be better off.


YOU TELL EM GG!!!


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

To further add to GG's comments, In 1995, I went in to the House Natural Resources without so much as a piece of paper to argue keeping piranhas. When I sat next to Kay Brown (ODFW), she had a stack of documents and notes. She read from her notes, while I just spoke from the top of my head. That impressed the legislatures because (unlike ODFW) I knew what I was talking about without having to refer to "notes". Senator Bill Fisher stated, that _I was probably in the only person in the world that could talk about piranhas without refering to notes. _Do you have any idea how that made me feel inside? I started this thing to protect piranhas for myself. But in the end, I fought for the right of every hobbyist out there to keep them too. It angers me to no end when idiots talk about releasing them as its some kind of joke. This is serious business to me and one that I personally do not take lightly. I've seen many fly-by-night hobbyists write about how important their piranhas are to them, then see them do the dumbest, unethical things I have ever seen. I consider HOLLYWOOD, GROSSE GURKE as pioneers in keeping this hobby sane and safe. More than any other hobbyist out there that just comes in calling themselves experts while doing absolutely nothing to protect the hobby. They have proved themselves in Oregon to carry that title.


----------



## MIKE JONES (Dec 9, 2006)

next time a mod sees a post like this, a stupid ass fuccin snitchin post like this that has no value other than try to give ''the man'' more insite on what we do, and how we do it, delete this post and shut the fucc up, before u ruin every thing for everyone else!!!


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

MIKE JONES said:


> next time a mod sees a post like this, a stupid ass fuccin snitchin post like this that has no value other than try to give ''the man'' more insite on what we do, and how we do it, delete this post and shut the fucc up, before u ruin every thing for everyone else!!!


hahahhaa CHILL


----------



## rockymax (Feb 12, 2007)

Dawgz said:


> next time a mod sees a post like this, a stupid ass fuccin snitchin post like this that has no value other than try to give ''the man'' more insite on what we do, and how we do it, delete this post and shut the fucc up, before u ruin every thing for everyone else!!!


hahahhaa CHILL
[/quote]

yea take it easy man, i just posted this out of curiosity in case i had ever gotten asked to ship a piranha into an illegal state if i was to sell one or what some of the sites' sponsors do. This thread had nothing to do with doing illegal things with piranhas. So far they're completely legal in my state and i have no intention of doing anything illegal or giving "the man" insite


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I dont think the negative comments in this thread were in any way directed toward the question....just some of the amazingly ignorant posts made by a few individuals.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Speaking of ignorant. This is a good example of why piranhas are at risk of being banned. The guy who caught the fish is not even a hobbyists. This happened in Oregon. Thanks to Prof. D. Markle at OSU for sending me this newspaper clip. For the record, I do not see a hook damage at all on this fish other than the usual signs of being kept in an aquarium too small (chin bump).


----------



## watermonst3rs (Feb 15, 2004)

i always thought this subject was taboo on this site. don't ask, don't tell policy.


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

watermonst3rs said:


> i always thought this subject was taboo on this site. don't ask, don't tell policy.


I think it's good to bring it up here, but only in an intelligent, mature fashion.
It's a subject that needs to be addressed from time to time.
We all need to be aware of what's going on with the legality of our hobby.

True, it doesn't do the hobby any good to have members bragging about breaking the law and such, but discussion of how the law pertains to the ownership of piranhas will help keep us all informed and thereby up our chances of being able to defend that right if need be.

We all have a responsibility to be good ambassadors of the hobby.


----------

