# Sick piranhas and what to look for



## hastatus

Over the years (and most recently) I've read topics of how "fat" certain caribas look and often the fish is attacked in that region by other piranas. Often exposing eggs, sometimes not. This has led some people to believe a nice "fat" pirana is probably a pregnant pirana. The photos I'm about to show you will disprove that claim that every fat pirana is probably female. The photo is a plump male cariba.

In these photos you will see a diseased cariba, probably infected with Edwardsiella sp. or a related organism that is found on catfishes and in particular gold fishes. If you feed gold fishes (Carassius sp.) you will likely encounter problems like this. Overcrowding your fishes and poor water quality will also cause the invader to spread. These are gram-negative problems best treated orally. With a pirana that is not a safe thing to do. I'm hoping, you the Pfury member, will take to heart my warnings about feeding live fishes to your pirana, in particular gold fishes, minnows or any such critter to your piranas. Internal lesions can be seen on the organs as well.


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## DonH

Great post Frank! Many people might view a large "plump" piranha to be holding eggs but there are many conditions that can lead to similar symptoms. Dropsy, nematode infestation, constipation, etc.

Could it be possible that this fish suffered from constipation and the food left in the "gut" rotted? This might explain the nasty smell when the body cavity is opened during autopsy. Edwardsiella tarda is not a common fish disease is it?


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## hastatus

Edwardsiella is not only common but is being recognized as more widespread that originally thought. Particularly in farm-raised fishes. Also the disease can be human transfected. No sign of rotted food, though I thougt I found some "beefheart" it turned out to be the liver in necropsy. I believe there are 2 species of Edwardsiella.


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## DonH

There are more than 2 species of Edwardsiella. From what I've read, Edwardsiella tarda is more common and very similar to E. coli except that this gram negative bacteria produces hydrogen sulfide. It can be transmitted to humans but I think the symptoms are more like diarrhea (not sure).


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## hastatus

Here you go:

BETHESDA, MD. -- A woman with symptoms of endomyometritis was found to have the first known case of postpartum bacteremia due to Edwardsiella tarda, Dr. Gautham Nayak reported at the annual meeting of the Washington, D.C., Chapter of the American College of Physicians-American Society of Internal Medicine.

E. tarda is associated with freshwater tropical environments and the fish, reptiles, and amphibians that reside in such ecosystems. Infection almost always takes the form of salmonellalike gastroenteritis, which in rare cases among immunosuppressed patients can lead to systemic involvement and meningitis, cholecystitis, or osteomyelitis.

The 26-year-old woman presented to the emergency room 5 days post partum with fever and mild lower right quadrant pain. She had no abnormal vaginal discharge, urinary symptoms, nausea, diarrhea, or dyspnea.

She had delivered at 41 weeks' gestation after an uncomplicated obstetrical course, said Dr. Nayak of the National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Md.

The woman was presumed to have endomyometritis and was treated empirically with gentamicin and clindamycin while culture results were awaited. Symptoms abated within 4 hours but recurred 2 days later.

Culture results available at that time identified the infecting organism as gram-negative E. tarda, which was found to be sensitive to gentamicin. Symptoms resolved after the gentamicin dose was increased, but cultures from blood samples taken at 10 days showed persistent infection.

The organism was finally eradicated at 30 days.

This case illustrates the importance of administering antibiotics that are effective against gram-negative enteric pathogens when treating postpartum women with symptoms of pelvic infection, Dr. Nayak said in an interview at the meeting.

Only two cases of gynecologic infection with E. tarda have been reported, both of which occurred in tropical areas and involved pelvic colonization resulting from GI infections.

This patient had no known exposure to raw fish or contact with reptiles or amphibians, and she had no history of travel to the tropics during pregnancy Dr. Nayak speculated that the infection became systemic because she was in a state of relative immunosuppression due to the pregnancy.

COPYRIGHT 2000 International Medical News Group
COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group


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## Xenon

Good post!


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## hastatus

Here's a bit more information, the interesting points are in *BOLD*:

Septicemia- A condition where bacteria gains entry into the fish's body through wounds or the stomach. The bacteria can cause failure of the internal organs, damage to body tissue, blood vessels, and result in recognizable symptoms. *This often results in internal bleeding, due to the fluids filling the fish's abdomen.* Dropsy may occur as a result. The problem with this type of situation is that the bacteria is present inside the fish and safe from the antibiotics you would place in the water. It could be the result of another infection or caused from dirty water. Symptoms: Clamped fins, bulging eyes, red bellies, eroding, reddened fins, lack of appetite, and fish showing signs of being sluggish or exhibiting sluggish behavior. Treatment: It is best to feed the fish antibiotics rather than using the kinds you place directly into the water. Placing the ill fish in a hospital tank is advised while administering treatment. Check your local petstore for some good medicated food or check for antibiotics if necessary. Septicemia is fatal if not treated immediately!

Aeromonas hydrophila is a motile, Gram-negative bacillus. This bacterium is free living and is always present in the water. As an opportunist, this bacterium may infect many species of freshwater and brackish water fishes. Synonyms for A. hydrophila infection include "motile aeromonas septicemia," *"infectious abdominal dropsy," *and "bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia." Infection with this organism is thought to be at least partially associated with overcrowding and high levels of stress in the fish population. This bacterium is associated with hemorrhagic septicemia (blood-borne bacteria). The clinical and histological signs of disease are similar to those associated with A. salmonicida.

*Edwardsiella sp. are motile, Gram-negative, gas-producing bacilli. There are two main bacterial species, designated Edwardsiella tarda and Edwardsiella ictaluri. The former species causes "putrefactive disease of catfish" (EPDC) or "fish gangrene," while the latter species is associated with "enteric septicemia" of catfish. These bacteria primarily affect channel catfish, but bacterial infection also may be observed in gold fish, golden shiners, and large mouth bass. Edwardsiella sp. also presents a serious threat to eel culture in Asia. The lesions produced by Edwardsiella tarda include small cutaneous ulcers and hemorrhages in the skin and muscles. In advanced disease, large abscesses with malodorous, gas-filled cavities may be observed in muscles. *Edwardsiella ictaluri may be associated with petechial (pinpoint) hemorrhages in the skin. Other lesions caused by these organisms may appear similar to those caused by Aeromonas sp. (see appropriate section above).


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## ineedchanna




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## MR.FREEZ

hope yall dont mind but i added a link to this thread to my *gold fish profile*

i found it informative and think it could be helpful


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## marco

thanks for the post frank


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