# Us Debt



## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

This was made before the 2008 meltdown, thus not including the $10-20 trillion additional dollars that was lent, spent or guaranteed. I give the US "as we know it" 5 years before it collapses upon itself.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2011)

Refreshing to watch a video where the US problems are blamed on baby boomers and inefficient US healthcare.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

You better hope the US economy doesnt implode. I dont know if you realize this....but US accounts for about 70% of Canadian exports....we go down....you go down.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Why do all the Canadians on here want the US to fail? Is it some little brother pissing contest?


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Like it or not the US is the lynch pin that holds the global economy together. We buy the sh*t you make. Wanting us to fail is like wishing that the girl you just fucked had herpes. Also, guess what happens to all the countries who own that debt if we fail to repay it?
Want to take it to the extreme, imagine what would happen if China suddenly lost 50% of it's GDP and 3-4 trillion in assets. 
Lots of that debt was also accrued by having to play referee for a planet sized game of Risk. You would all be speaking a mixture of Russian and Mandarin right now if it weren't for our bloated military budget.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2011)

Who said they want the US to fall?


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Boobah said:


> Why do all the Canadians on here want the US to fail? Is it some little brother pissing contest?


Penis envy....and prob b/c we treat canada like our little brother.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Traveller said:


> Who said they want the US to fall?


x2... although its hard when such a great nation is full of equally great morons


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> Who said they want the US to fall?


x2... although its hard when such a great nation is full of equally great morons








[/quote]

oh wow, look bob said american's are dumb.

We hear it so much I'm just curious what you base that on?


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## muskielover1 (Dec 7, 2004)

i just applied for every credit card i could find.im going to blow it all to help stimulate the economy.


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> You better hope the US economy doesnt implode. I dont know if you realize this....but US accounts for about 70% of Canadian exports....we go down....you go down.


yes I'm aware


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

Boobah said:


> Who said they want the US to fall?


x2... although its hard when such a great nation is full of equally great morons








[/quote]

oh wow, look bob said american's are dumb.

We hear it so much I'm just curious what you base that on?
[/quote]

WASHINGTON - The United States has fallen from top of the class to average in world education rankings, said a report Tuesday that warned of US economic losses from the trend.

The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

In Canada, 15-year-olds are more than one school year ahead of their US peers in math and more than half a school year ahead in reading and science, said the report released hours after President Barack Obama urged Americans not to rein in education spending, even in a tough economy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5juGFSx9LiPaur6eO1KJAypB2ImVQ?docId=CNG.5337504e8f65acf16c57d5cac3cfe339.1c1


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Soul Assassin said:


> Who said they want the US to fall?


x2... although its hard when such a great nation is full of equally great morons








[/quote]

oh wow, look bob said american's are dumb.

We hear it so much I'm just curious what you base that on?
[/quote]

WASHINGTON - The United States has fallen from top of the class to average in world education rankings, said a report Tuesday that warned of US economic losses from the trend.

The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

In Canada, 15-year-olds are more than one school year ahead of their US peers in math and more than half a school year ahead in reading and science, said the report released hours after President Barack Obama urged Americans not to rein in education spending, even in a tough economy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5juGFSx9LiPaur6eO1KJAypB2ImVQ?docId=CNG.5337504e8f65acf16c57d5cac3cfe339.1c1
[/quote]

Right, so a report that says our education has dropped instantly means we're all retarded. That's why the United States has more Nobel Laureats than anyone else by a long shot.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2011)

QUICK!! A DISCUSSION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT FOR SOME REASON OFFENDS ME!!

DIVERT!! DIVERT!! DIVERT!!


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Traveller said:


> QUICK!! A DISCUSSION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT FOR SOME REASON OFFENDS ME!!
> 
> DIVERT!! DIVERT!! DIVERT!!


QUICK A POST!!! TROLL TROLL TROLL!!!


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Boobah said:


> Right, so a report that says our education has dropped instantly means we're all retarded. That's why the United States has more Nobel Laureats than anyone else by a long shot.


So if we'z b retarted then theyz must be barly smartr retarts.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

I don't think anyone wants the US to fall. It's more like being worried it will fall for yes, we all realise that'll be an economic ice age to all western nations.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

A recent survey was conducted amongst recent college graduates(these are your "well educated" kids), and do you know that over 50% of them didn't know what year the Declaration of Indepedence was signed ....and even more almarming, 55 - 60% didn't know which country we were liberated from!...

Now i don't want to dig any more for the cnn article its from since you can do that yourselves since it does not matter to me if you like it or not...

I could go further into this if you would really like... maybe you should watch this documentary its been posted several times but i like the above quote since they are college graduate after all and should be held at a higher standard than highschool kids.






Anyways... its not anything new that the american educational system is falling far behind and its no secret either... My intention was calling out the morons who thought this was a canadian bashing america thread when it could have been an actual discussion about the video... buy hey shoot first ask questions later am i right.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> A recent survey was conducted amongst recent college graduates(these are your "well educated" kids), and do you know that over 50% of them didn't know what year the Declaration of Indepedence was signed ....and even more almarming, 55 - 60% didn't know which country we were liberated from!...
> 
> Now i don't want to dig any more for the cnn article its from since you can do that yourselves since it does not matter to me if you like it or not...
> 
> ...


yeah bob- when 90% of the threads turn into Canada bash America and someone (who is in fact Canadian) posts a video saying he bets the us implodes in 5 years. I can't see how that could be seen as a Canada bashing america thread. Are you serious?

Fun biased documentaries are great, and with 300 millonn people we sure do have a lot of retards these days. For some reason, our retards always manage to be coddles by our media. Like I said earlier, the US has 3 times more Nobel Laureates than any other country. Depending on what source you use, the US has 6 or more of the top 10 universities in the WORLD. But you're right, all 300 million of us are just too stupid to use a computer and eat McDonalds 3 meals a day.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

You should have noted I said a lot of morons not 300 million morons and 90% of what all the threads in the lounge turn into usa vs canada... find one on this page please other than this ( good ole american math... im kidding







).

I had no idea your college graduates are retards or did you just decide to leave that lil bit out of your little retards manage to get plastered all over the media all the time... 50% of your graduates have no idea who you fought for your own f*cking independence.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

bob351 said:


> You should have noted I said a lot of morons not 300 million morons and 90% of what all the threads in the lounge turn into usa vs canada... find one on this page please other than this ( good ole american math... im kidding
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> You should have noted I said a lot of morons not 300 million morons and 90% of what all the threads in the lounge turn into usa vs canada... find one on this page please other than this ( good ole american math... im kidding
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what the hell does that sentence mean?

You said full of retards, you constantly talk about how stupid Americans are for some reason. If you'll notice I haven't bashed Canada one time, just defending against your ridiculous obsession.

I'd love to see that survey, see who they polled to get that 50% number. I personally agree that there is a serious lack of leadership in education and the economy, but reading some survey and blindly looking over every other fact about American higher education is just asinine.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

I can go out tommorow to Downtown Toronto and ask a bunch of history questions and be 100 percent confident that most will fail too. Canadians need to stfu with this repetitive nonsense in every thread. You dont make us look any better bob, in fact your quite embarassing.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Danny Tanner said:


> I can go out tommorow to Downtown Toronto and ask a bunch of history questions and be 100 percent confident that most will fail too. Canadians need to stfu with this repetitive nonsense in every thread. You dont make us look any better bob, in fact *your *quite embarassing.


you're


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

found the article for you...(took me a while to find though)
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?app=core&module=search&search_in=members










Like i said before boobah your nation is not all retarded (gotta say it a few times for the slow people... again I'm kidding) ... your older generation is fine... but your youth are in trouble and it does not take a brain surgeon to see this. Believe it or not I couldn't give a f*ck since i don't live there and its not going to be my kids who are going to these schools.

So I bashed america in a few threads a few months back thats an obsession to you... get over it already... any person with half a brain could realize I was doing it for the entertainment value and have not said a peep about america for many weeks now and was not planning on it unless someone else brought it up. I didn't blindly look over every other fact about your higher education but are all students going to yale or harvard?

DT your f*cking ridiculous... get off this high and mighty bullshit no one likes a brown noser


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> found the article for you...(took me a while to find though)
> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?app=core&module=search&search_in=members
> 
> 
> ...


That's a link to the search feature...


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

i know that was the joke









but i found it anyways so i will post it here didn't post the original link but it was from cnn...

(CNN) - As Americans get ready to spend a long weekend marking this country's independence 234 years ago, a new poll suggests more than 1 in 4 Americans don't know which country America declared its independence from.
According to a new survey from Marist College, 26 percent failed to correctly identify Great Britain as the country the United States fought an eight-year war with to gain its independence.
That percentage of Americans includes the 20 percent who were "unsure" and the six percent who thought the U.S. fought a revolution against another country. Among the countries mentioned were France, China, Japan, Mexico, and Spain, according to the poll.
The poll's internals show younger Americans know least about this country's founding: only 60 percent of 18-29 year-olds could correctly name Great Britain. Men also had a considerable 81-67 percent advantage over women in naming the correct country.
The poll surveyed 1,004 Americans between June 17 and 24. It carries a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

So i stand corrected... its 1 in 4 college students and 40% of people aged 18-29 who could identify great britain.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

I find it hilarious that bob can call out American youth for being dumb as if he is some great ambassador of intelligence himself or something.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

So if there is a lion in the room do you need a phd in zoology to call it a lion...


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> i know that was the joke
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, your numbers are slowly going down. Not to mention you're basing this entire argument on a poll conducted by a notoriously republican college during a democratic administration that polled about .000035% of the US population. If the same "poll" was conducted in any other country I would expect roughly the same results. Stupid people are a global problem. It's just more of a worry when it's America because we're seen as a world leader in higher education.

Completely unrelated.... it was a phone poll....seriously? Who the hell do you know that even has a land line anymore.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

bob351 said:


> So if there is a lion in the room do you need a phd in zoology to call it a lion...


99% of Canadians cannot diffrentiate a lion from a zebra.

- Toronto Transit Commission


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Well i never said its not a global problem nor was i comparing it to canada... and your 100% correct about it being a big issue in the states more so than other nations as you are a world leader and will need a smart population to remain at the top. Again stating the obvious if america goes down so do most of the rest of us... and its worrying since you have nations like china pumping out smart kids like its another cheap toy.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Anyway about the actual vid - You know what the saddest thing about that video is? It's nothing new. We've known this is coming but our leaders are too concerned to make the tough decisions and piss off the majority of the US voters (old fucks)


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Seriously kids, USA vs Canada sh*t is old and moldy. Keep it up and get a time off period.

Reopening to hope there can be some civil discussion.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

shall we continue the conversation?


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2011)

I say add a new rule. *Only people from the US are allowed to talk about the US due to some people getting easily offended.* Anytime someone says something it's blown out of proportion by someone, even times when no one says anything, like this thread, thats right, no one said sh*t.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

so whats everyone predictions for the next year? will we recover or continue sliding backwards


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

The slide will slow down. Stopping the slide is impossible any time soon; it just needs to be controlled to a level where it doesn't outpace the overall growth of our GDP. Seeing as we don't really build anything in the US anymore, it's going to be a difficult uphill battle....

We need some serious changes in the leadership of the country


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

agreed

a deeper question is, what do you think about bringing back manufacturing here? possible in our lifetimes? or has that ship been sailed never to return?


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

You need to find a way to make producing products overseas not as cost efficient as domestic product... to start force china to have a floating currency vs a pegged currency... you cant win the economic war if they have a pegged currency.

IMO your government needs a big overhaul you have two polar opposite parties who cannot for the life of them put country before party...


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> You need to find a way to make producing products overseas not as cost efficient as domestic product... to start force china to have a floating currency vs a pegged currency... you cant win the economic war if they have a pegged currency.
> 
> *IMO your government needs a big overhaul you have two polar opposite parties who cannot for the life of them put country before party...*


I used to think that... honestly now I believe the only place they really differ is all the social heart string pulling bullshit that doesn't matter. Financially speaking both parties are run by lobbyists that give money to both sides and legally bribe politicians.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Boobah said:


> You need to find a way to make producing products overseas not as cost efficient as domestic product... to start force china to have a floating currency vs a pegged currency... you cant win the economic war if they have a pegged currency.
> 
> *IMO your government needs a big overhaul you have two polar opposite parties who cannot for the life of them put country before party...*


I used to think that... honestly now I believe the only place they really differ is all the social heart string pulling bullshit that doesn't matter. Financially speaking both parties are run by lobbyists that give money to both sides and legally bribe politicians.
[/quote]
boobah you nailed it on the head once again


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

This is true corporations now run america... I watched this interview with warren buffet about the tax on the rich and how he gets taxed less than his workers? That to me is ass backwards... the guy who can barely put food on his table is taxed more than a guy who can feed america for a few years.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

our tax system needs to be simplified across the board. there are far too many loop holes and exceptions. but the problem is spending. taxing more wont really solve a thing unless the spending is checked. its like having a shop-a-holic wife and just hardballing your boss for more and more raises to support her habit instead of controlling her. eventually your boss is going to have enough and fire your ass


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

It would benefit the deficit though I would think... but yes good analogy, its only a temporary band aid solution. Then this will come up again and they will need to raise taxes further...


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## louisvillain2.0 (May 16, 2007)

bob351 said:


> The poll's internals show younger Americans know least about this country's founding: only *60 percent of 18-29 year-olds could correctly name Great Britain.*
> 
> So i stand corrected... its 1 in 4 college students and *40% of people aged 18-29 who could identify great britain*.


Hahaha fuckin fail!


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Nice catch... boobah knew what I meant


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## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

Yes, many Americans are STUPID!

I was NEVER a good student, and ultimately dropped out of HS.

HOWEVER, I was NEVER stupid, I just didn't do well in school learning about things that bored me AT THE TIME.

I and many people I know COULD do well on a quiz show, and correctly answer the questions that many of those featured could not. It's called editing!

I personally learned about debt in my younger years and even went thru credit counseling to get myself back on track. Not proud, but grateful that I learned early and corrected my course.

Not sure my point, or if there is one except not all Americans, or Canadians, our insert here'ians are stupid, but the ones who are get WAY more attention than the ones who have a head on their shoulders.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Exactly Baked, its like when Jay Leno used to go around and ask some questions to random people. Probably out of lets say 100 people he'd ask the question, maybe 2-3 didn't know. Guess who got on tv though.

It's also the same thing as "are you smarter than a 5th grader?" The human brain can only "hold onto/remember" so much information. If it isn't relevant or recent, the brain may forget so that it remembers something else that is more recent. If I opened my college calc 2 book, would I remember how to do some of that sh*t? Probably not. Do I need it anymore in the career that I have? Hell no. So my brain has decided not to remember it.

Back on topic though, the tax system is crazy now. To those you can afford it, hire people to find the loopholes or just know the system to well themselves to find the loopholes. I'm all for a fair tax system, something like 25% even. Still allow donations or whatever, but noting too much.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Another issue with spending is who the majority of the spending goes to..... Old people and the military. Nobody is going to screw over our old people because they are the largest voting block, and nobody is going to screw over our military because that would be political suicide (not to mention it would just be wrong). As far as spending goes we're sort of stuck in a quagmire. Our biggest chance of pulling through this is economic growth.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Just a thought.....wonder how many of those kids who got it wrong answered "The British" or "Britain" and got marked wrong because the guy doing the pole was anal retentive.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Boobah said:


> Another issue with spending is who the majority of the spending goes to..... Old people and the military. Nobody is going to screw over our old people because they are the largest voting block, and nobody is going to screw over our military because that would be political suicide (not to mention it would just be wrong). As far as spending goes we're sort of stuck in a quagmire. Our biggest chance of pulling through this is economic growth.


You don't think you could cut military spending just a little not cheap out on supplies for the troops but dont drop bombs worth more than the country you are in and stop funding billion dollar projects that are impractical and inevitably get cut only to loose the money with nothing to show. Although most of the cost is probably just maintenance on the equipment you already have and not so much on development...


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Nothing is excessive when you've pissed off countless nations, dealt in extremely unruly things, fueled fires, and want to police the world.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

This is true... its almost like a point of no return in a way.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

The way the USA has been fucked over and over sh*t is going to hit the fan one day. Sucks that we will probably have to suffer as well.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Danny Tanner said:


> Nothing is excessive when you've pissed off countless nations, dealt in extremely unruly things, fueled fires, and want to police the world.


We don't want to police the world, we have to police the world, because no other country has the balls or the means to do it. Out bloated military is the reason the entire world isn't speaking a mixture of Chinese and Russian right now. You're welcome.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Oh yeah, your right. Thanks America.

/sarcasm


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Danny Tanner said:


> Oh yeah, *you're* right. Thanks America.
> 
> /sarcasm


Gotta be policing your grammar.


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## muskielover1 (Dec 7, 2004)

^forrealz...whered you go to skool?the red hat of americaz?


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2011)

Definitely another victim of the US education system.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Probably sucks so bad because of all the dumbass foreign exchange studens who can't speak english.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Traveller said:


> Definitely another victim of the US education system.


If you think Toronto is in America, maybe you need to go back to your past school teachers in Britain or Kuwait and slap them for letting you pass.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

bob351 said:


> Another issue with spending is who the majority of the spending goes to..... Old people and the military. Nobody is going to screw over our old people because they are the largest voting block, and nobody is going to screw over our military because that would be political suicide (not to mention it would just be wrong). As far as spending goes we're sort of stuck in a quagmire. Our biggest chance of pulling through this is economic growth.


You don't think you could cut military spending just a little not cheap out on supplies for the troops but dont drop bombs worth more than the country you are in and stop funding billion dollar projects that are impractical and inevitably get cut only to loose the money with nothing to show. Although most of the cost is probably just maintenance on the equipment you already have and not so much on development...
[/quote]

It's a double edged sword. America has an interest in keeping stability in certain regions of the world for our own gains. We can talk sh*t about how we are saving the Iraqi kitttens or what not, but a relatively stable Middle East means a constant flow of oil. We freed a lot of people from a repressive regime and did some good, but let's face it - If it was really about that we would be liberating and policing every third world warlord run country in Africa. The United States has the role of policing the world, whether we like it or not, but more countries benefit from it than just us. We're not in a unique situation like Canada or any number of European countries where we can sit back and be the good guy passing judgement. We simply have to keep the most powerful standing army in the world to maintain our global dominance. That's just the way it is. It's expensive as sh*t to police the world.

We could definitely save money by not being in Iraq, but on the same token war is profitable for corporations involved in it. As long as they keep lobbying our leaders, we'll keep going to war to "preserve the peace". I

As far as the billion dollar projects are concerned, which ones are you talking about?

Wow Traveller...another zinger as usual.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

b_ack51 said:


> Probably sucks so bad because of all the dumbass foreign exchange studens who can't speak english.


Yeah man so many studens out here cant speak english too well. All these god dang studens!


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

i look forward to the day where we cave to the typical "policing the world" protests and actually decide to mind our own business, turn a blind eye and live and let live. it will be within 24 months that a genocide or some graphic injustice takes place and everyone comes down on the united states because "we did nothing!" 
continue on gents...its entertaining


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Central said:


> i look forward to the day where we cave to the typical "policing the world" protests and actually decide to mind our own business, turn a blind eye and live and let live. it will be within 24 months that a genocide or some graphic injustice takes place and everyone comes down on the united states because "we did nothing!"
> continue on gents...its entertaining


So who cares what they say? Or do you want to continue policing the world? How well has that worked out for you?

On second thought. Continue policing the world. You guys do it. I'd rather have your country and tax dollars go to the shitter than mine.

It just hit me! Why do I talk so much sh*t about the states? Id rather have someone else take this burden if world policing and f*ck over its own people/economy than have it done in my country. Join the US Military and fight for freedom. But just remember you wont get an ounce of respect or sympathy from me. Go die in in a US campaign, f*ck me I dont care, as long as the good ole canada land upstairs keeps prospering without getting its hands dirty and making me rich.


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## muskielover1 (Dec 7, 2004)

Lol. Who's gonna save you if we're gone?


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Central said:


> i look forward to the day where we cave to the typical "policing the world" protests and actually decide to mind our own business, turn a blind eye and live and let live. it will be within 24 months that a genocide or some graphic injustice takes place and everyone comes down on the united states because "we did nothing!"
> continue on gents...its entertaining


If we pull back we'll have maybe a year or two of peace on the outside, then we'll be fighting all these stupid brushfire wars on our doorstep instead of ina third world sandbox on the other side of the planet. I don't know about you but I'd rather spend 600 billion a year blowing up the sandbox instead of using all the tax money I saved to bomb proof my house and install anti-aircraft batteries on my roof.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Piranha Dan said:


> i look forward to the day where we cave to the typical "policing the world" protests and actually decide to mind our own business, turn a blind eye and live and let live. it will be within 24 months that a genocide or some graphic injustice takes place and everyone comes down on the united states because "we did nothing!"
> continue on gents...its entertaining


If we pull back we'll have maybe a year or two of peace on the outside, then we'll be fighting all these stupid brushfire wars on our doorstep instead of ina third world sandbox on the other side of the planet. I don't know about you but I'd rather spend 600 billion a year blowing up the sandbox instead of using all the tax money I saved to bomb proof my house and install anti-aircraft batteries on my roof.
[/quote]

I'm not sure. The US is pretty well placed strategically. Canada won't do anything and Mexico can't. If we secured our borders to the north and south we'd be pretty safe. If we pulled out of the middle east they would probably stop trying to fly planes into our buildings and we would be more secure on that front. On the other hand, other countries would just pick up where we left off. You hate the US foreign policy? There's oil there, someone is going to get it. Imagine Chinese or Russian military filling that power vaccum. I don't think they would be as bothered by public opinion as we are.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

100% agree, well said... I would much rather be invaded by the states than russia or china any day or else its going to be geneva convention... geneva what?


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Boobah said:


> Another issue with spending is who the majority of the spending goes to..... Old people and the military. Nobody is going to screw over our old people because they are the largest voting block, and nobody is going to screw over our military because that would be political suicide (not to mention it would just be wrong). As far as spending goes we're sort of stuck in a quagmire. Our biggest chance of pulling through this is economic growth.


You don't think you could cut military spending just a little not cheap out on supplies for the troops but dont drop bombs worth more than the country you are in and stop funding billion dollar projects that are impractical and inevitably get cut only to loose the money with nothing to show. Although most of the cost is probably just maintenance on the equipment you already have and not so much on development...
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It's a double edged sword. America has an interest in keeping stability in certain regions of the world for our own gains. We can talk sh*t about how we are saving the Iraqi kitttens or what not, but a relatively stable Middle East means a constant flow of oil. We freed a lot of people from a repressive regime and did some good, but let's face it - If it was really about that we would be liberating and policing every third world warlord run country in Africa. The United States has the role of policing the world, whether we like it or not, but more countries benefit from it than just us. We're not in a unique situation like Canada or any number of European countries where we can sit back and be the good guy passing judgement. We simply have to keep the most powerful standing army in the world to maintain our global dominance. That's just the way it is. It's expensive as sh*t to police the world.

We could definitely save money by not being in Iraq, but on the same token war is profitable for corporations involved in it. As long as they keep lobbying our leaders, we'll keep going to war to "preserve the peace". I

As far as the billion dollar projects are concerned, which ones are you talking about?

Wow Traveller...another zinger as usual.
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I watch the military channel frequently and its an american channel... anyways I was watching a special on the development of the company lockheed and for all the great stuff they put out many many more projects mainly the hidden ones are trashed or cancelled. I forget specific examples but some are just insane how expensive they are and you can tell a lot of the stuff really served no purpose other than those 1 in a million missions... Its important to have vehicles for all situations but some are so specialized they could only be designed for 1 thing in mind with a price tag that makes you cringe. Also a lot of the weapons and bombs being developed carry million dollar price tags and accuracy that could put it through a window when you don't need to be that precise a few feet off wont hurt its a bomb not a sniper round IMO.

But again its a double edge sword like you said because without the failed projects and cancelled projects then they would never have learned from there mistakes or even learned some of the specialized knowledge that some projects years later will require.

I missed this post before...


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

That's true- but Lockheed has lobbyists that make sure the right people stay in office. War is profitable for them.

I think if we just abolish lobbying and call it what it is, bribery, all of the us problems would be solved. Well it would be a start at least.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

America needs to stop being the worlds bitch and step up. We should have done it right at the end of WW II but by trying to "be fair and equitable" gave away any territorial gains and allowed Russia and China the ability to gain too much power. We've given out country away to people that hate us and vilify us whatever we do.
I say f*ck THIS sh*t. 
Time while we still have some fighting ability it to take what we want, what will sustain the US of A and fight to the last man to hold it. Take farmland, take shoreline and take any natural resource areas we need and the hell with everybody else. We've let the jackels of the world nip at out heels too long, nit-picking away at us until out core is riddled with doubt and we start to believe that we are all the things they say we are. America needs to stop caring what the rest of the world thinks. 
This planet is in trouble and all the talk in the world isn't going to stop humans from continuing to destroy it, so it's about time for the endgame scenario. Take the good stuff, defend it from the weaker and let the chips fall.


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