# species???



## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

Frank any help appreciated....


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## KeemCambell (Jun 7, 2004)

thats a beautiful fish man







im very bad at IDing and wish i could help you, if you are selling this fish i could help tho







will you be selling these?


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## Dr Exum (Nov 6, 2004)

yea you wanna sell? you have p's?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Stop asking to buy, he wants it identified.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Dr Exum Posted on Dec 3 2004, 07:36 AM
> yea you wanna sell? you have p's?


Go to the buy and sell forum this is Piranha Species ID forum.

Here you go Jon:


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

i imported this fish from Guyana,, it was in a mixed lot,, they just labeled em as "piranha" lol

i wasnt aware brandti was endemic to guyana but all the better









as always,, thanks


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

S. brandtii is not native to Guyana, could be the fish was just tossed in to the box (not uncommon when filling orders). That's when you get your best unexpected species.


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

in the past when i use this particular shipper i have received 50 percent or so of these fish and the other half reg rhoms,,
its only with the 5-6 inch size,, for some reason


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Interesting. The key to S. brandtii (as seen from the photo) is the placement of the anal fin first ray in comparison to the upper dorsal fin. Its the only Serrasalmus species with this unique trait of the anal fin resting almost midline to the dorsal fin. Most other species, the anal fin first ray is just in front of the last 3 soft rays or just behind the soft rays of the dorsal fin.


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

i will try to find out what river these fish were collected from,,,

is it possible Brandtii has populations in Guyana that went unnoticed by science?


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Head structure to me looks like a Vinny rhom , but that shows you how much I know ..vinnys arent in the guyana river









Frank , 
Why the bend in the head protion ? does that go away ? Do all brandts have that bend ?

John ,
Wanna Sell him ....
Ill take him


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## Le Tautai (Nov 2, 2004)

nice fish..


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

MR HARLEY said:


> Head structure to me looks like a Vinny rhom , but that shows you how much I know ..vinnys arent in the guyana river
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i have been out of ps for a while and to me a venz rhom was the badass fish from the wolves in the water cd.. super arched back bright red eyes,,, pure evil

what are u guys referring to as a vinny rhom,,, ??


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

MR HARLEY said:


> Head structure to me looks like a Vinny rhom , but that shows you how much I know ..vinnys arent in the guyana river
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i have 5 of them and i dont want to break the rules at pfury im not sure if i am allowed to sell via the board without paying fees,,, i was informed there are no open slots for new dealers,,,

im just happy to know the id of this fish,,,, i was boggled and new Frank was the man to come too...

i have known frank for some time,,,,







he kicked me off his old piranews b4 90 percent of the members here owned a red belly..

but all in all im glad to see him still around and kicking and helping us out









thanks again Frank


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

RARE AFISHINADO said:


> MR HARLEY said:
> 
> 
> > Head structure to me looks like a Vinny rhom , but that shows you how much I know ..vinnys arent in the guyana river
> ...


 That would be him ...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I don't see much difference in the head shape (slope) as others that have come in from different areas of the Sao Francisco. Much of it depends on the locality.

As for being overlooked by science, highly unlikely, the Sao Francisco is pretty much explored out when it comes to piranas. As for Guyana, not likely either since that too has been farmed out. There are instances of gold mining having adverse effect (both in the Sao Francisco and Guyana region). Its possible (small possiblity_ the eggs are being screwed up by changes of water chemistry and mercury poisoning. Don't have a clear cut answer other than the individualistic traits of the piranas when it comes to body/head shapes.

One key thing (as I mentioned to folks here) the line up of the anal to dorsal fin is very unique ONLY TO S. brandtii. So even if you have a fish that rhombeus-like which brandtii is a member of the group, then the body structure of brandtii would fit in even to a "vinny rhomb appearance.

As for the wolves in the water rhombeus, those are different appearing than the S. brandtii shown here. Your making to much of the angle of the head.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Here are photos of what a real Venezuela S. rhombeus looks like. Certainly doesn't look like the S. brandtii above.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Very interesting. Thatnks for the info Frank


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

certainly doesnt look like a ven rhom after comparing it to some actualy photos posted by Frank.

I too thought it was a Ven rhom from initial viewing. I made that assumption from the slope of the head. But if you actually compared the pictures side by side you can see a big difference in head/neck shape.

Frank, this maybe a stupid question, but can you ever ID a piranha(serrasalmus) by simply looking at the phyical apperance? IE: head/body shape, jaw?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

To be honest, its not always easy for IDing from a photo. As many years as I've looked at piranas, it may seem easy to those that read this when I do it. But its not. On average I can ID majority, but there are always a few photos that toss me for a loop. Part of it is because of the photo coloring and how the fish is placed for photographing. Just a slight angle placement and the body/headshape can be distorted.

And the stupidest question is the one that is NEVER asked.


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