# A lil ammonia



## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

So ive been doing water changes everyday since ive had my red ruby which was fri....ammonia day before I got him was 0 then after was 0.50 and ive done 2 25% water changes and its reading around the 0.25 mark now maybe a lil less......how damaging is this??? I plan on doing yet another water change tomorrow and vac gravel a lil........ Just wondered is it possible to stay at 0 ammonia??? geesh im trying......


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

it's definitely possible to stay at 0 ammonia, a cycled tank should always show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite.... have you fed the fish since you got it?


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

You've got to have some food still there, rotting plants, or you're changing too much water. If you have some filter media from another tank. Put that in there to add some good bacteria back to the tank. Are you running enough filtration for the tank size?


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## Armand_caribe (Sep 9, 2009)

Blue Flame said:


> You've got to have some food still there, rotting plants, or you're changing too much water. If you have some filter media from another tank. Put that in there to add some good bacteria back to the tank. *Are you running enough filtration for the tank size?*


That might be the main issue here, the filter is short for the tank needs, what filter are you running?.....


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Ive got 2 filters....a fluval 305 and an aquatech 30-60 gallon so thats definitely not it..... As for rotting plants they are all fake.... food being in there not before I got the Piranha last friday did a super good gravel vac and water change day before he came. And my nitrites are at 0 just ammonia was 0.25 any other suggestions??? im only doing 25% water changes.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

if your tank has been set up for a while and you aren't leaving food in the tank, then the only thing i could think of is that you are lacking in bio filtration or you are performing too many/too large of water changes


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

How could I be lacking in bio filtration though??? Ive got Bio max in my fluval 305 and running 2 filters on a 55 gallon aquarium?? And I thought doing water changes was good if there was any trace of ammonia??


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

plus i was using the Seachem stability just like the bottle say for the last 7 days to help establish the biofilter and my tank had been running a month before I got my Piranha???


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

the ammonia source you were feeding for your cycle is probly just not as much as your spilo is producing


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Probably because I only had 2 african cichlids in there.......so whats my next action or what steps should I be taking?


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

if it is just that there wasn't as much ammonia as your spilo is producing then your bacteria should catch up in a day or two


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

ok so water changes or no??? And how often should I be doing water changes?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

just perform small volume water changes to keep your ammonia levels in check


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Armand_caribe said:


> You've got to have some food still there, rotting plants, or you're changing too much water. If you have some filter media from another tank. Put that in there to add some good bacteria back to the tank. *Are you running enough filtration for the tank size?*


That might be the main issue here, the filter is short for the tank needs, what filter are you running?.....
[/quote]
I'm running 2, AC 110's, and that works on all my big tanks.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok so its been a couple days and ammonia was at around 1.0ppm so I did a 40-50% water change and really good gravel vac, added more biomax rings to my filter where I used to have carbon.... and waited about 4 hours and check water again and its still at 1.0 ppm!!? How can that even be possible!? Ive checked my tap water and its 0. Will this ever go to 0 seriously....? REALLY FRUSTRATED please help!


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

starting to get wierd now.. if you know anyone else that can test your water try that. its a long shot but it might be your test kit


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

ok i guess ill try taking a sample to my LFS.... ):


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

As I think has been said in prior threads....your cichlids were not creating the bio-load your fish is now....so it will take time to catch up. You should expect a pretty good nitrite spike as well. This is what happens when there is a sudden jump in the bio-load of a tank.

Of course...this is all assuming your tank was cycled in the first place.


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

were you not the one with the 2-3 inch RRS? If yes how much shits can it take, how big were the African cichlids?


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

yeah I have the ruby red.... I've never seen its shits ha ha.

So when this nitrite spikes..... will it hurt my fish?? Ive been doing water changes about every other day to keep the ammo levels in check.


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

chaddfc said:


> yeah I have the ruby red.... I've never seen its shits ha ha.
> 
> So when this nitrite spikes..... will it hurt my fish?? Ive been doing water changes about every other day to keep the ammo levels in check.


Low levels of ammonia won't kill ur fish but if ur nitrites or ammonia spike ur looking for trouble. Keep an eye on it


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

IMO, you either did not cycle your tank correctly or somehow killed your BB

Keep up the water changes and wait till your tank cycles and hope your P survives


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

umm yeah I did cycle for over a month and my ammo hit 0 and nitrite 0..... and yeah my Piranha better survive because a hundred and fifty dollar fish better not just die!!!


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

As GG said then your spilo is just creating more waste then the africans were. Your benificial bacteria will just need to catch up.

The nitrite spike can hurt your fish. But you can put salt in your tank to help fight Nitrite Poisening


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

man im not seeing any signs of a nitrite spike still 0 and ive been fighting this ammon for a while now whenever it hits 1.0 ppm I do a gravel vacc and 25% water change to keep it in check and also added media to my fluval filter to help eliminate ammonia.


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## the keeper (Jan 16, 2010)

chaddfc said:


> man im not seeing any signs of a nitrite spike still 0 and ive been fighting this ammon for a while now whenever it hits 1.0 ppm I do a gravel vacc and 25% water change to keep it in check and also added media to my fluval filter to help eliminate ammonia.


im going through the same thing with my tank, my tank is trying to catch up like yours is, just keep doing your water changes and youll be ok,


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

ok so should I keep doing 25% water changes or let this ammo get higher....i dont get it checked my nitrite again just now and 0....always been 0 and ammo is at 1.0 ppm......so 25% water change and vac gravel or no???


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

?? anyone have any suggestions? how long til you usually get a nitrite spike?? never seen one once and tanks been up and running for bout 2 months maybe lil more. Had Piranha in it about 2 weeks.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

In order to tell what is going on with your NitrItes....you need to track the change in your NitrAtes.

The cycle is a delicate balance. If you picture it like this it might help:

There are two types of bacteria needed for the cycle
Bacteria A consumes ammonia and gives off NitrItes.
Bacteria B consumes NitrItes and gives off NitrAtes.

So if you have 5ppm ammonia in a cycled tank it would look like this:

5ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 5ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 5ppm nitrates. End result&#8230;.0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, 5ppm nitrates.

Now if we up ammonia in this same tank you get a mini cycle. Lets say your bio-load is now 20ppm ammonia.

Day 1 - add 20ppm ammonia
5ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 5ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 5ppm nitrates. 
End result 15ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, 5ppm nitrates. 
The reason for this is because there is only enough bacteria to handle 5ppm in your tank. It takes about 24 hours for the bacteria to double. 
Day2 - add 20ppm ammonia.
10ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 10ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 5ppm nitrates. 
End result 25ppm ammonia, 5ppm nitrites, 10ppm nitrates.
Day3 - add 20ppm ammonia.
20ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 20ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 10ppm nitrates. 
End result 25ppm ammonia, 10ppm nitrites, 20ppm nitrates.
Day4 - add 20ppm ammonia.
40ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 40ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 20ppm nitrates. 
End result 5ppm ammonia, 35ppm nitrites, 40ppm nitrates.
Day5 - add 20ppm ammonia.
25ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 25ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 40ppm nitrates. 
End result 0ppm ammonia, 20ppm nitrites, 80ppm nitrates.
Day6 - add 20ppm ammonia.
20ppm ammonia converted by bacteria A to 20ppm nitrites which is then converted by bacteria B to 40ppm nitrates. 
End result 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, 120ppm nitrates.

So that is basically a mini spike. It took 6 days for the tank to balance it self out and be able to handle the increase in bio-load. And in order to see what is happening with the nitrites&#8230;you need to test your nitrates. Without that..it is all guess work.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

ive tested nitrates too and it usually reads inbetween 0-5ppm i guess i could check it again though been about a week.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

If the nitrates numbers are not increasing....then it sounds to me like you are at the very begining of they cycle and do not have any bacteria in place yet.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

ok???....well will someone tell me how thats even remotely possible..... Had my tank setup since...hmmm....a week after christmas... ran it for 4 days and put 2 african cichlids in the tank..... ran that for over a month....got my Piranha and its been about 2 weeks with him in here.....so how is that possible?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

As has been stated....with such a weak bio-load it might never have kickstarted. The cycle begins with some measurable ammonia.....then you need some measurable nitrites. It sounds like you are just beginning to get ammonia and you havent ever had nitrites. I dont know that for sure....just based off of your posting.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

i guess but why wouldn't 2 african cichlids produce ammonia???


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Im not saying they wont....but that is such a small bio-load for a 55 gallon tank.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

It might not have been enough to keep a bacteria colony alive.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok so should I keep up with the 25% water changes then and how often???


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

???


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Well...couple things I would do. I would stop or seriously limit feedings to cut down on the ammonia being produced. I would do 10%-20% daily water changes but I wouldnt do gravel vacs...just water changes....all you are trying to do is limit the nitrite spike...assuming you are at that point in the cycle.

To know where you are in the cycle...you really need to track ammonia, nitrites and nitrates....that is the only way to know what kind of bacteria your tank has in place.


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