# 9/11 are we under attack?



## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

I was thinking about terrorisim last night and I came to a question. Why do terrorists commit suicide so frequently in forign countries instead of the USA. Why don't small attacks happen here? I doesn't make sense to attack the world trade center then just sit back for 4 years. Why don't we have suicide car bombs in this country? If a terrorist organization wants to bring us down why not a sustained attack? Killing 30 people in Los Angeles at a diner with a car bomb would be very simple and effective. If you were Al-Queda would you stop after 9/11?? What do you think is really going on here? Sadly, 100% of us have the means to kill other Americans in mass. If we were truly at war, Osama would be killing us every week. Honestly, I'm not sitting on either side of the fence. That's why I'm asking for your opinion. So many questions.....I'd love to hear some explanations.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

mrbmum33 said:


> I was thinking about terrorisim last night and I came to a question. Why do terrorists commit suicide so frequently in forign countries instead of the USA. Why don't small attacks happen here? I doesn't make sense to attack the world trade center then just sit back for 4 years. Why don't we have suicide car bombs in this country? If a terrorist organization wants to bring us down why not a sustained attack? Killing 30 people in Los Angeles at a diner with a car bomb would be very simple and effective. If you were Al-Queda would you stop after 9/11?? What do you think is really going on here? Sadly, 100% of us have the means to kill other Americans in mass. If we were truly at war, Osama would be killing us every week. *Honestly, I'm not sitting on either side of the fence.* That's why I'm asking for your opinion. So many questions.....I'd love to hear some explanations.
> [snapback]1068155[/snapback]​


Considering you are from the USA, I think you know what side of the fence you should be sitting on. That comment doesn't make much sense to me.

Other than that, and trust me I don't even begin to think that I have the same train of thought as a terrorist, I think they might only conduct higher scale attacks because they want to show us (the US) that they are larger scale and should be feared as apparently they fear us.

Either way it's totally retarded







. i hope they keep most of their attacks in their own country.


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## tweekie (Nov 3, 2004)

i often think simular things mate. in the UK there is always some thing in the news about "terrorist plot foiled" etc etc. anyone has the means to cause the country to take note of their point. a strategically placed car bomb on a the m25 motorway during rush hour..... you can still walk into Heathrow airport unchecked until you try to go through to departures. suicide bomber could walk in, right upto departures desk and bang. heathrow airport closed, all air traffic diverted, all other airports in the country would close, ground flights and divert other aircraft incase the attack was part of a country wide plot.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Yeah, one would expect a follow-up (or more) after 9/11 - at least I would. 9/11 clearly showed how vulnerable the US is, and the methods used on 9/11 are only the tip of the iceberg of methods at terrorists' disposal (nuclear, chemical, biological, digital, plane/boat/car bombs, suicide bombers, assassinations of public figures - the list goes on and on...)
Yes, large-scale attacks are more shocking, but continuous small scale attacks would cause much more fear and paranoia: it would affect society much more than occasional large attacks (the fear that you're not safe at home, in your car, at work or where ever, and the effects of that, are much more paralysing to society than a one-day large-scale attack).
Just look at Israel - they try to live their lives as normal as possible, but terrorism is a very real threat: each time you, or a loved or close one, leaves the house it could be the last time. It may not be apparant on the surface, but that fear is a fact of live there. Compared to that, official US policy, aided by the media, breeds similar fears amongst the US population, but wheter that is reasonable/justifyable or not remains to be seen: I strongly believe it's done for very different purposes...


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## tweekie (Nov 3, 2004)

good point, smaller but more frequent attacks would make people very paranoid. if they suddenly started planting and exploding bombs at random london underground stations once a week or something after 1 or two go off and people realise that this type of transport is being targeted they will stop using the underground. this will cause endless problems and cost billions of pounds. imagine the amount of people that use london underground everyday. even if there was a 10% drop in that figure thousands of jobs will be lost for london underground employees.

add this to all the companies in and around london where staff couldnt get into work because of it.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

If terrorists were fighting a super power they would want a war of attrician. Conversly, a super power would want a war of anihilation. Think back to the revolutionary war. The USA outlasted the red coats. That was a war won through attrician (out lasting your enemy). We made it too expensive via british lives and money for them to continue the war. Simple, sustained attacks are the key to breaking a super power. This is common information passed down through history. We recover quickly from one large attack.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

mrbmum33 said:


> I was thinking about terrorisim last night and I came to a question. Why do terrorists commit suicide so frequently in forign countries instead of the USA.  Why don't small attacks happen here? I doesn't make sense to attack the world trade center then just sit back for 4 years. Why don't we have suicide car bombs in this country? If a terrorist organization wants to bring us down why not a sustained attack? Killing 30 people in Los Angeles at a diner with a car bomb would be very simple and effective. If you were Al-Queda would you stop after 9/11?? What do you think is really going on here? Sadly, 100% of us have the means to kill other Americans in mass. If we were truly at war, Osama would be killing us every week. Honestly, I'm not sitting on either side of the fence. That's why I'm asking for your opinion. So many questions.....I'd love to hear some explanations.
> [snapback]1068155[/snapback]​


Why even bring up this topic? Somethings are better left unsaid...All you are doing is giving ideas to those out there. This is one of those no-brainer questions...It doesn't take a genius to know that if you were a terrorist...and at war...that you should be attacking the US whether small or large attacks. But if they feel that they have to do everything on a larger scale...then thats what they feel. Or who knows...maybe they don't have the organization for a bunch of small attacks over here...but the real question is... *Why the hell would you ask why they aren't doing more?* Or specifying exactly: *Killing 30 people in Los Angeles at a diner with a car bomb would be very simple and effective.* It's almost like you're dissapointed that they haven't started small scale attacks...And to say *I'm not sitting on either side of the fence. * makes you sound like a complete traitor to the US. I'm sorry man...But this is how you make yourself sound...The way you presented this topic was in complete idiocy.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Why? Because you don't like the topic? Because you seem to be unable to interpret it correctly?








Give me a break dude: first of all there's nothing wrong with talking about this (unless freedom of speech is meaningless), andsecondly, I truely hope you don't actually think terrorists browse fish forums to get inspiration (I hope for you that your leaders take terrorism a little more serious that you apparantly do...)

It was just a matter of time before a reply like above would surface: a typical example of the short-sighted black-and-white thinking resulting from the 9/11 attacks...


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## Pilsnah (Mar 19, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Why? Because you don't like the topic? Because you seem to be unable to interpret it correctly?
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True! But you have to consider the fact that these peeps are at war, for us it is just a theoretical discussion. I think woth J2, fear just struck when reading this thread. Maybe we are helpin' the terrorists as of now


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Why? Because you don't like the topic? Because you seem to be unable to interpret it correctly?
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Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...And laugh all you want...You're the same guy that would give those terroists flight lessons thinking...Like a terroists is really gonna be in a flight class...Next thing you know...Thousands people are dead from 2 planes hitting the world trade center...Cmon...Same ideas apply to this...THEY ARE EVERYWHERE MY FRIEND...Stop closing your eyes to reality.

Secondly,
Don't blame me for interpeting a topic the exact way it was written. If this guy can't formulate his thoughts properly...then they shouldn't be said. I can try to understand what we was trying to say...but the way he came off was ridiculous. He did make it sound like he was dissapointed that small scale attacks aren't happening...and he was the one who said he takes no sides...meaning he's not for the U.S.

So how did I interpet what he said incorrectly?

Lastly...I think its THE WAY he said things is the reason it should be left unsaid. All he simply had to ask is why do you think we haven't been attacked yet since 9/11...what do you think Al-Qaida might be planning? Simple and to the point...But going on and on about how they could do it, in detail might I add...and why they should do it, stating the benefits...Seems like traitor talk to me...









And like you said...its freedom of speech...so that's my $00.02.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Pilsnah said:


> Judazzz said:
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> > Why? Because you don't like the topic? Because you seem to be unable to interpret it correctly?
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Well, we haven't experienced a large-scale attack (yet), but I'm sure you can remember the effects of the Van Gogh murder: it was the public assassination, or rather butchering, of a single individual, but it threw our entire society out of whack. Without exaggerating, I think it's safe to say public outcries and sentiments were similar to what was said shortly after 9/11.
And the fact that we have a good amount of radicals living in our country only adds to that.

I can imagine topics like this bring up fears and thoughts about what might be possible, but if you don't address them, or even just talk about them, they will always keep you in their grip. Ignorance is one of the largest contributors to fear (just to avoid people flipping out about that: I'm not saying anyone here is), along with politicians and the media.

Furthermore, I think it's naieve to think threads like this may actually be helping terrorists. We're talking about well-organised fanatics here, people that don't shy away for the most revolting acts - do you actually think our words (or any other similar topic brought up on message boards like PFury) actually matter to them, let alone help or stimulate them? That would be severely underestimating those organisations, imho.


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## deadhead (Dec 29, 2003)

Maybe our efforts in Afghanastan and Iraq put a choke hold on terrorists efforts to come into this country? Thats my take.Actually I havent read much about any bombings besides whats going on in Iraq.
I say put a wall around the whole country and let them destroy themselves.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...


Pure speculation... Any proof to back that up?
btw: better not say that - maybe terrorists now all want to keep piranha's as pets, which would make us PFuryans suspects as well - I for sure don't want to spend the coming decade on Gitmo (no matter how transparant and humane it is, according to Mr. Rumsfeld...)



((( J2 ))) said:


> And laugh all you want...You're the same guy that would give those terroists flight lessons thinking...Like a terroists is really gonna be in a flight class...


A number of the 9/11 hijackers took flight lessons in the US - that's a (well-known) fact.



((( J2 ))) said:


> Stop closing your eyes to reality.


What would make you think that I'm doing that? Please quote what makes you believe so...



((( J2 ))) said:


> Secondly,
> Don't blame me for interpeting a topic the exact way it was written. If this guy can't formulate his thoughts properly...then they shouldn't be said. I can try to understand what we was trying to say...but the way he came off was ridiculous. He did make it sound like he was dissapointed that small scale attacks aren't happening...and he was the one who said he takes no sides...meaning he's not for the U.S.


You're putting your own interpretation of that post in his mouth. What you think is up to you, but it's not necessarily what was said or intended to say.
And who are you to decide that if people have trouble chosing the right words to formulate a post, they shouldn't?











((( J2 ))) said:


> Lastly...I think its THE WAY he said things is the reason it should be left unsaid. All he simply had to ask is why do you think we haven't been attacked yet since 9/11...what do you think Al-Qaida might be planning? Simple and to the point...But going on and on about how they could do it, in detail might I add...and why they should do it, stating the benefits...Seems like traitor talk to me...


Again, your interpretation, and nothing more than that - that you think he's a traitor doesn't make him one... Unless you think every expert on terrorism that talks and publishes about possible scenario's is one as well.
People can discuss what they want: that some are unable to realise that it's just talking and discussing is your problem. Luckily, Homeland Security hasn't curtailed freedom of speech or the right to discuss whatever issue you're interested in on-line - yet...



((( J2 ))) said:


> And like you said...its freedom of speech...so that's my $00.02.
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And you're entitled to that - but don't bend or twist other people's words so they match your interpretation and thoughts, or falsely used to make non-sense allegiations.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

My Responses in RED.



Judazzz said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...
> ...


And I'm spent on this subject...I expressed my opinions and I will not repeat them again...So unless you have something more to add...besides making me repeat myself...Then go ahead...Otherwise...I think I'm gonna let this go...I don't got time to argue about the same things anymore.

Thanks Judazz.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Why is it that when ever someone in our country says something different then the popular idea everyone jumps on them. Why is it that if someone says something bad about there own coountry, then they are called a TRAITOR. Last I checked we had freedoms in our country to say what ever we feel like.

I am tried of some many people being so FU*KING scrared about terrorisim. So many people in our country are willing and have allowed our civil liberties to be taken away. Dam people we are all going to die one day and no one knows when there day will come. I would rather live my life free and happy, then scrared and boxed in.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

J2, americans are free to speak, they are free NOT to speak, so dont go throwing out things like, its unamerican blah blah blah because someone has a natural concern for their country. im sick of that bull sh*t. what, if i dont paint a picture of the flag on my ass then im unamerican? give me a friggen break. f*cking conservatives...jesus.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> But going on and on about how they could do it, in detail might I add...and why they should do it, stating the benefits...Seems like traitor talk to me...
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You don't honestly think the idea of setting off bombs within the US has never occured to terrorists do you? These aren't people sitting in caves in pakistan going "ok, we want to hit the americans with this stick, but we aren't sure how. This is the best idea we could think of though so we'll stick with it. I wonder how all those other terrorists in Iraq get ideas like suicide bombing, if only we could come up with something like that"...

You don't like the idea of terrorists getting ideas like this, but dude, THE IDEAS ARE ALREADY OUT THERE. It's naiive as all f*ck to think the idea of doing what they do in other countries within the US hasn't occured to them...


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

"9 11 times 1,000"


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Look..I knew I would get bashed for what I said...and I all I can say is a big







to all of you that don't agree with me...It simple...I don't know why its like pulling teeth with you guys...If a guy says...why aren't we getting bombed here...going into details about how it could be done......and then says...I'm not on either side of the fence...Meaning...he's not against it or for it...Thats F*CKIN TRAITOR TALK...I don't care what any of you say...Are you people really that stupid to understand that? And Twitch...Did I ever say that Terrorists don't have these ideas already? No...I didn't...So why would you say that I am being naiive to think something that I never said...I just said...Let's not put ideas out there...I'm sure they have these ideas and a whole lot worse...I was simply saying why throw ideas out there and give details how you could do it...when its totally unnessacry and could possibly lead to these things.

I know I'm going to be hated by alot of people for my statements...But this isn't personal..this is only my opinion...But sometimes facts are facts...if you say I'm not sitting on either side of the fence as far the US getting attacked on US soil...what does that make you?

But here's the last thing I'm saying...I don't know mrbmum33...For all I know he could be a stand up guy...which I'm sure he is...what I stated about him...was that he SOUNDED LIKE A TRAITOR...AND THAT IT WAS TRAITOR TALK...I never blantly said...mrbmum33 you are a traitor. I said the way he expressed his opinions sounded like a traitor...My exact qoute from my first post was *"you SOUND like a complete traitor to the US. I'm sorry man...But this is how you make yourself sound."*

DONE.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

There is a big difference with loving one's country and disliking the the goverment. I myself hate the goverment for the hypocrisy that it stands for at this moment in time. I have never missed a vote since I was 18 and I still vote. But as time passes I am losing faith in the goverment. I do not think the goverment is running fairly and giving everyone a chance to be elected in the offices that make a difference were it matters. The elite run this country and they just feed the masses here and there to keep us in control. I am not with the side of this goverment but I stand with the people of this country.


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## we have sound (Apr 27, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Look..I knew I would get bashed for what I said...and I all I can say is a big
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when he said he wasn't sitting on either side of the fence, did it occur to you that he meant not that he was half for the government and half for the terrorists, but that he was half agreeing with the government about the 9/11 attacks and the terrorist danger, and half disagreeing - wondering why there had been no more attacks or anything to merit the level of danger te government says you are in? Because after i read your post you seem to feel like he was agreeing with the terrorists or something, and i didn't get that from his writing at all.

saying that you dislike your own country, hate it even, and want a different governmental style, does not make you a traitor. Everyone has the right of free speech amd they can say what they want. i agree with the topic starter, if the threat of terrorism as a great as everyone seems to say it is, why have there been no more large scale attacks ? why are security levels always rising when nothing seems to be happening? While you mayb think its wrong of me, i beleive that it takes a stronger man than me to kill himself for what he beleives, and most terrorists are not that strong.

CT


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

Terrorists strike because they do not agree with how they are being governed/controlled. The attack is an answer to the control being placed on them. The end goal of a terrorist group is to live life the way THEY choose. They consider their countries 'home' and do not want to live elsewhere. When another group controls them, they lash out in the hopes of driving the controlers out (or irradicating them).

One could consider SOME melitia groups in the States to be terror groups as well. There are two main reasons why you do not see many attacks in the States.

1. Despite recent debacles, the US has a very good intelligence system. Thousands of names have been red-flagged so most terrorists could never get into the country in the first place. If they did manage to sneak in, they would probably have difficulty in obtaining the quantities of explosives/poisons they would need. I could see one or two small attacks happen but if a pattern was found, it would be shut down. Bottom line, it would not be effective to strike the US unless it was on a massive 911-type level which bring me to my next point:

2. Cost and planning. The 'benefits' of striking the US do not justify the costs for most groups. They want to see first-hand results where the alleged opression is occurring (their homelands). I suspect that most terrorists feel the costs and planning of a US strike would be better spent in their homeland battles. The 911 attack probably took years, millions in planning/scounting/intel gathering, and thousands of hours of manpower.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Natt King Shoal said:


> 1. Despite recent debacles, the US has a very good intelligence system. Thousands of names have been red-flagged so most terrorists could never get into the country in the first place. If they did manage to sneak in, they would probably have difficulty in obtaining the quantities of explosives/poisons they would need.
> [snapback]1069293[/snapback]​


At the risk of giving terrorists ideas they couldn't possibly have thought of themselves (oh boy) it should be pointed out that the explosives used in the terror attack that before 9/11 was the worst on US soil was made from household items such as lawn fertilizer. And then there's the issue of it not being all that difficult to aquire a gun and the whole sniper thing a while back. If you think of the number of illegals getting into the country, you're not exactly talking about a secure border. The fact that something like less than 2% of shipping containers gets inspected as well would also exacerbate the situation of trying to maintain a secure border. It isnt easy for them I wouldn't think, but I'd hardly call it all that difficult either


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? *Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...*And laugh all you want...You're the same guy that would give those terroists flight lessons thinking...Like a terroists is really gonna be in a flight class...Next thing you know...Thousands people are dead from 2 planes hitting the world trade center...Cmon...Same ideas apply to this...THEY ARE EVERYWHERE MY FRIEND...Stop closing your eyes to reality.


dude, we're talking about terrorists, not dr. evil.


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

"Blah blah blah....."

To make a long story short, its not as easy here as it is over there. Suspicious things get reported.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

hyphen said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? *Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...*And laugh all you want...You're the same guy that would give those terroists flight lessons thinking...Like a terroists is really gonna be in a flight class...Next thing you know...Thousands people are dead from 2 planes hitting the world trade center...Cmon...Same ideas apply to this...THEY ARE EVERYWHERE MY FRIEND...Stop closing your eyes to reality.
> ...


LoL According to his logic, since he knows so much about what kinda pets terrorists likes....maybe he's a terrorist himself!


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Kain said:


> hyphen said:
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Yep...I'm a terrorist...Makes perfect sense.


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

WTF?


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Kain said:
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According to your logic, it makes perfect sense


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Kain said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
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*Ok...you think I'm a terrorist...Let's look at how you drew your conclusion:*


((( J2 ))) said:


> A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say


So this statement makes ME a terrorist? Then good for me.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

> *Ok...you think I'm a terrorist...Let's look at how you drew your conclusion:*
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> ((( J2 ))) said:
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Here, let me break it down for you...my comment wasnt intended to identify you as a terrorist, rather it was directed towards your logic. Take a second to think about it before you respond. Have a nice day


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

In case you couldn't tell I was being sarcasitc...I know exactly what you meant...And I think your logic is wrong...which is why I sarcasticly said...yeah I'm a terrorist...makes perfect sense...And thank you...I will have a nice day.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

:laugh: So basically, you've just demonstrated yourself as a hypocrite..







Seriously man, you really need to analyze people's comments before you post your replies.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Kain said:


> :laugh: So basically, you've just demonstrated yourself as a hypocrite..:laugh: Seriously man, you really need to analyze people's comments before you post your replies.
> [snapback]1070265[/snapback]​


Thanks for the compliments and advice.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Kain said:
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> 
> > :laugh: So basically, you've just demonstrated yourself as a hypocrite..:laugh: Seriously man, you really need to analyze people's comments before you post your replies.
> ...


Anytime my simple minded friend


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## PuffPiff (May 23, 2005)

if you dont know what side of the fence you're on let me put a noose around your neck and drag you to the right side of the fence


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PuffPiff said:


> if you dont know what side of the fence you're on let me put a noose around your neck and drag you to the right side of the fence[snapback]1071248[/snapback]​


So much for living in a free country, huh?


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## PuffPiff (May 23, 2005)

sorry when it comes to us or terrorists you better be on our side, or i might have to send names to the department of homeland security


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PuffPiff said:


> sorry when it comes to us or terrorists you better be on our side, or i might have to send names to the department of homeland security
> [snapback]1071264[/snapback]​


Well, send ahead, little Gestapo man








At least it's your own society you'd f*ck up with such behaviour, breeding paranoia and mistrust...

If you actually bothered to read any of this thread, you'd see his "what side of the fence to be on" comments had nothing to do with siding with America or the terrorists... But I guess facts or the thruth don't matter anymore these days.


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## PuffPiff (May 23, 2005)

if thats not what he meant by his comments then forgive this humble gestapo


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Kain said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
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Damn Kain...you just can't let it go without insulting me huh...I don't care to argue with you anymore dude...don't you get it...you have your opinion, I have mine...that's all there's to it. Now let it go.











PuffPiff @ Jun 17 2005 said:


> if you dont know what side of the fence you're on let me put a noose around your neck and drag you to the right side of the fence


Finally...someone see's things from my point of view.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Kain said:
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Sorry


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> mrbmum33 said:
> 
> 
> > I was thinking about terrorisim last night and I came to a question. Why do terrorists commit suicide so frequently in forign countries instead of the USA. Why don't small attacks happen here? I doesn't make sense to attack the world trade center then just sit back for 4 years. Why don't we have suicide car bombs in this country? If a terrorist organization wants to bring us down why not a sustained attack? Killing 30 people in Los Angeles at a diner with a car bomb would be very simple and effective. If you were Al-Queda would you stop after 9/11?? What do you think is really going on here? Sadly, 100% of us have the means to kill other Americans in mass. If we were truly at war, Osama would be killing us every week. Honestly, I'm not sitting on either side of the fence. That's why I'm asking for your opinion. So many questions.....I'd love to hear some explanations.
> ...


The "fence" I was refering to was Big attack Vs. Sustained attack. You are a poster child for the problem at hand. You seem uneducated and unwilling to learn or talk about uncomfortable subjects. Ignoring a subject will not make it go away. I mean no personal disrespect with this response and I would like to hear your feedback.


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

Why dig up a thread thats been buried for over a month?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Natt King Shoal said:


> Why dig up a thread thats been buried for over a month?[snapback]1135620[/snapback]​


Why post when you got nothing to add?
Maybe he was away for a while, and wanted to continue the discussion? Who knows?


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Natt King Shoal said:
> 
> 
> > Why dig up a thread thats been buried for over a month?[snapback]1135620[/snapback]​
> ...


I added my dislike of people digging up old posts. Trust me, many people have posted replies more insignificant then mine.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

I got ONE mature reply and it was from Judazzz. It's important that US Americans talk about this issue. My intent was to discus Al-Quida's plan. I'm resurecting this topic after the UK Bombings (it's scary to read the previous stuff). I hate terrorists as much as anyone. My question was why don't they keep attacking us? I'm not wishing they would, I'm just questioning their plan. If we want to win the war against terror we need to figure out their tactics.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

tweekie said:


> good point, smaller but more frequent attacks would make people very paranoid. if they suddenly started planting and exploding bombs at random london underground stations once a week or something after 1 or two go off and people realise that this type of transport is being targeted they will stop using the underground. this will cause endless problems and cost billions of pounds. imagine the amount of people that use london underground everyday. even if there was a 10% drop in that figure thousands of jobs will be lost for london underground employees.
> 
> add this to all the companies in and around london where staff couldnt get into work because of it.
> [snapback]1068187[/snapback]​


this was writen 3 weeks BEFORE the UK bombings!!!! any response?


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

Natt King Shoal said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Natt King Shoal said:
> ...


Thanks for adding nothing to this topic. Keep your ignorant posts to BS about MTV. You suck and I hope I never have to read one of your posts again


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## tweekie (Nov 3, 2004)

mrbmum33 said:


> tweekie said:
> 
> 
> > good point, smaller but more frequent attacks would make people very paranoid. if they suddenly started planting and exploding bombs at random london underground stations once a week or something after 1 or two go off and people realise that this type of transport is being targeted they will stop using the underground. this will cause endless problems and cost billions of pounds. imagine the amount of people that use london underground everyday. even if there was a 10% drop in that figure thousands of jobs will be lost for london underground employees.
> ...


response? from me? 
only that it shows how easy it is to find vulnarable (sp?) places over here. everyone around london knew that the underground would be targeted at some point but the attitude over here until recently was "oh well, it wont happen to me".

only way to help prevent attacks on the underground would be to search bags/coats etc. but if people were getting the bags etc searched everytime they had to get on a tube/subway then there would be thousands of complaints every day. whatever the authorities do over here there will be a certain section of people who will moan.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

mrbmum33 said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > mrbmum33 said:
> ...


Firstly...You are the one that seems un-educated...You ask the question...why haven't we been attacked more here at home, on US soil...That question in itself is just dumb...The only way you're gonna get the true answer is by talking to Al-Qaida terrorists directly...Any other answer from anyone here is just going to be pure speculation...And even if you did bring it up...just for conversation...it doesn't matter...because honestly...NO-ONE knows why they aren't attacking us here.

Secondly...If that was your true intention of the "side of the fence" statement you made...Maybe you should have been a little more clear...Because it wasn't just me who didn't understand what you meant....So read before you call me out.

And lastly...what is with the "I'm a posterchild for the problem at hand?" Talking about how terrorists could kill us...and going in to detail is just something you don't say...I could say...hey I could f*ck your mom, daughter and wife/gf...all at the same time...but why haven't I yet...Would you like that??? Probably not...its the same idea...Yes we know that the terrorists could place a bomb in a sports stadium...or six flags...and kill thousands of people...But why bring it up??? That's my point...Everyone here knows it could happen...Just like it could happen where someone could rape your entire family and leave them for dead...it could happen...but does it need to be said??? NO...Just like these ideas you bring up...don't need to be said...Everyone already knows it.

Its not that I choose to ignore the subject at hand...Its just that the subject at hand was something that DOES NOT need to be addressed. Everyone already knows what COULD happen...Again...no need to go into details as how it could go down...Unless you are working for the government...and trying to protect us...by analyzing all possiblites on how and when the terrorist could strike...otherwise...who cares what they could do...What the hell are you going to do to stop it? NOTHING...so stop talking about it.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow...so much dribble...

Anyways, one thing that is important to remember is that in the Muslim fanatical belief system, if you die while attacking the infidels (sp?) you will go directly to heaven, and the size of the attack (or the amount of glory that it brings Allah) will determine the state of "heaven" that you get. So that is one reason for the larger attacks compared to the smaller ones.

Second, they (the terrorists) are NOT stupid. They fully understand that it would be very difficult to get enough people to continue this type of attack. Kill off all of your soldiers in terrorist attacks and you soon run out of terrorists.

Third, they know that the people of England and the US are not about to be pissed on by a nut with a bomb. Look at what happened on the airplane with the guy that said he had a bomb in his shoe...the people of the plane got up, beat the living hell out of him, and detained him until the plane made an emergency landing. People are not going to be pushed around on their own soil...not the US or England anyway.

Now, before you all start flaming, I am not an expert on the Muslim beliefs...I ran this question past a buddy of mine that is muslim, and alot of my answer came from him.

Just my thoughts...


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## User (May 31, 2004)

There is a major difference between European and American terrorist threat and attacks. European terrorism is an internal problem, American terrorism is external. Small scale attacks are useless to inflect any mass damage. Car bombs in LA would not do much expect piss off people and frighten those already scared. Massive small scale attacks would only bring about marshall law in Las Angeles. Small scales would also lead the CIA to other potential terrorists.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

I think small attacks would hinder larger attacks, that's why they shy away from it here. If there were more smaller attacks then there would be a growing hatred toward all Muslims and all Arabs. And in a short time there would be so many hate-crimes agains Muslims and Arabs that they'd be pushed out of the country.

The terrorists need to be able to hide in ther general populace in order to plan, stage, and carry out an attack. With no Muslims or Arabs in the country it'd be pretty hard to carry out any attack.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Its not that I choose to ignore the subject at hand...Its just that the subject at hand was something that DOES NOT need to be addressed. Everyone already knows what COULD happen...Again...no need to go into details as how it could go down...Unless you are working for the government...and trying to protect us...by analyzing all possiblites on how and when the terrorist could strike...otherwise...who cares what they could do...What the hell are you going to do to stop it? NOTHING...so stop talking about it.
> [snapback]1135816[/snapback]​


Again, since when do you determine what needs to be addressed and what does not? If this question is bugging him for a while, why not ask it and debate about it? It's a free country, so he can do it - it's his goddam.... ummm... god-given right to do so. What you think about that, or wheter you like it or find it not important enough to be addressed is 100% irrelevant.
He can talk about it all he wants - yes, you can whine about it all you want as well, about how we can't stop it so we should stfu about it, about how we might even inspire terrorists so we shouldn't go into details (can't believe anyone is actually deranged enough to actually believe that, but that's another issue), about you deciding for all other members that it's not worth caring about (funny line of thought, btw), hell, you can even _decide for us_ that it doesn't need to be addressed (which is totally laughable, of course) - what are you going to do about that? It won't stop people from talking about it - you're opinion on that is not a factor of any importance, as he just wanted to talk about it, not defend his reasons why. You called him out, not vice versa - don't forget that









PasorJeff: those terrorists in Europe aren't part of or linked to any terrorist organisation (although the media is always quick to slap a label on a group) like we knew them before (Al Qaeda, Hizbullah, etc.) They are homegrown, fully integrated and westernized, and usually led a perfectly normal live until months before they did what the had to do (and that's how they feel it). Somewhere along the line, they got radicalized. Not by brainwashing or trips to Pakistan or Afghanistan, but by reading on the internet, hearing radical messages in local mosques, reading extremist literature. The internet is all they need once they became susceptible to the message of Jihad. Spiritual guidance is needed to get them started, so to speak, but once they've set their minds on anti-Western sentiments, fed by current events, Western neglect of and indifference towards muslim tragedies going on all around the world (like Palestine or Chechnya: yes, terrorist elements are present there, but it's normal people that pay the price, yet no one gives a damn), and by extremist websites showing propaganda and gory footage of actions against the infidels.
This new breed of terrorists, like we know them in Europe, are almost impossible to track down, as they blend in until they strike. Even the parents of some of the 7/7 bombers had no clue at all (although I'm sure there are plenty of Neo-Conservatives argueing otherwise, and not just against that statement). They don't sacrifice themselves because of religious motives (going to paradise, the virgins and all that stuff) - they do it to be heard, to make a statement. Islam, or rather the global Muslim community (Ummah) is the catalyst and the motivator, not the prospect of living forever in paradise etc.)


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> They don't sacrifice themselves because of religious motives (going to paradise, the virgins and all that stuff) - they do it to be heard, to make a statement. Islam, or rather the global Muslim community (Ummah) is the catalyst and the motivator, not the prospect of living forever in paradise etc.)
> [snapback]1136246[/snapback]​


Thanks for the info...I was not aware of that. Last I had heard, some group had taken responsibility for it, and the mumbo jumbo here was that it was an AlQaeda sub group.

How did they determine the motivation behind the attack? To me (and I am not claiming to be a huge fount of knowledge here) it would seem stupid to pull a stunt like that if you did not have some assurance (real or self perceived) that you were going to be better off (or your cause would be) based on the act that you are about to do. Hope that makes sense?!?

Not that I justify the attack on 9-11 but I understand where THEIR mindset was at...but in comparison, I can not understand in any way the 7-7 bombing if the personal (not corporate) motivation was not there?!?

And to the statement that the bombings are different here in the states compared to those in the European lands (not you Judazz...it was said earlier)....go tell that to the familys that have lost a loved one. I don't think that they are going to give a rats butt about internal or external. It is an act of cowardace in the end, taking lives of innocent people. I am not mad about it, or offeneded or anything like that. I understand your point, but I really feel that if we don't start doing something about it...perhaps even something drastic, then this cycle of death is going to continue and it will get worse.

Very sad.

Thanks for the info Judazz...amazing how it all gets twisted around on the news.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PastorJeff said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > They don't sacrifice themselves because of religious motives (going to paradise, the virgins and all that stuff) - they do it to be heard, to make a statement. Islam, or rather the global Muslim community (Ummah) is the catalyst and the motivator, not the prospect of living forever in paradise etc.)
> ...


Well, I've noticed that on most European networks they look much more openly at these kinds of events than on CNN (which is the only US network I receive, so that's where the comparison ends) - we admit that these things don't just appear out of the blue, but have a reason, more than likely one in which Europe is heavily involved, so that yields quite interesting information.

The reason why they actually believe the motivation of the European bombers is what I outlined before is by comparing the killed bombers of Madrid, London, Casablanca, Istanbul etc. And there's also Mohammed B., the killer of the Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh (labelled terrorism, as it was a 100% religiously motivated act which he didn't, couldn't regret, as he was just carrying out God's will, and something he would repeat as soon as he'd got out again: he got sentenced to live two days ago, btw.) - they were able to study him, as he's still alive, and drew interesting parallells between his life and ideas and those of other European bombers that died in action. All were modern guys, reasonably to highly educated, drinking, smoking, girlfriends - basically doing what any other average European guy of their age does. And all radicalized at a certain moment in their lives - that's the key, finding out why and how. And that's exactly where a good portion of European research is dedicated to...

The motivation of the old Al Qaeda and these home-grown (suicide) bombers _are_ different for numberous reasons, but that doesn't mean they don't cause they same grief and sorrow. Al Qaeda was an organisation whose sole purpose was the destruction of primarily the US (the great satan in their logic), but secundarily also all the US allies - it's an historic struggle. These homegrown bombers are no part of an organised movement, and even though they too want the downfall of the western way of life, their reasons and catalysts for it are very different compared to Al Qaeda.
But even if the required approaches to deal with them are very different (luckily the UK immedeately started looking inward, instead of lashing out at other countries and making the problems even worse), in the end they all are part of the same problem.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > Its not that I choose to ignore the subject at hand...Its just that the subject at hand was something that DOES NOT need to be addressed. Everyone already knows what COULD happen...Again...no need to go into details as how it could go down...Unless you are working for the government...and trying to protect us...by analyzing all possiblites on how and when the terrorist could strike...otherwise...who cares what they could do...What the hell are you going to do to stop it? NOTHING...so stop talking about it.
> ...


I don't know why...but after reading what you said...I feel like Chris Tucker...When he's talking to Jackie Chan in Rush Hour..."What the hell did you just say?" "Man I don't know what you be saying"...and so forth.

Firstly...It seems to me you mods love to determine what should and should not be addressed in these forums...So excuse me all to hell if I do it ONE time...I guess you just don't understand my point of view...which is fine...You don't HAVE to listen to me...and you don't HAVE to do what I say...I'm merely expressing my opinion...I never said I'm right...But I beleive in what I say...which is why I said it...If you don't like what I said...or how I think...Too F'n bad right? As you keep stating over and over...its a free country...so I can say what I want too. Is that alright with you almighty Judazz?...Don't be so damn hypocritical.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Judazz - sidestepping the snivelling from another member, excellent thoughts that I had in no way heard before, but it sure makes a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, it really scares the snot out of me and gives me great reservation for what the future holds.

Is this mindset that you speak of predominantly a European area "thing" or do you think that it is a mindset that will end up affecting the US (or any US Allies)? Just curious...because if you think about it, one can not really track down and prevent this type of behavior.

It seems no different than high school shootings that we have around here. There is a wounded individual (perceived or real), a cause that they belive in, and a willingness to take life to make their point.

Again...sad


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> *Wow...so much dribble...*
> [snapback]1135948[/snapback]​





PastorJeff said:


> Judazz - *sidestepping the snivelling from another member,*
> [snapback]1136320[/snapback]​


If you have something you want to say to me...say it...otherwise...stop indirectly criticizing me like a little bitch.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

just fyi for international folk here, CNN and foxnews are cable networks. That means that only people that have cable tv(suscribe) have access to watching it. When people assume that these networks are all we watch, thats not very accurate.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> PastorJeff said:
> 
> 
> > *Wow...so much dribble...*
> ...


Anyone wanna take a guess at this kids age? I'm going with 15.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> I think small attacks would hinder larger attacks, that's why they shy away from it here. If there were more smaller attacks then there would be a growing hatred toward all Muslims and all Arabs. And in a short time there would be so many hate-crimes agains Muslims and Arabs that they'd be pushed out of the country.
> 
> The terrorists need to be able to hide in ther general populace in order to plan, stage, and carry out an attack. With no Muslims or Arabs in the country it'd be pretty hard to carry out any attack.
> [snapback]1136029[/snapback]​


Great point! I hadn't thought of that. I don't think it would push Muslims out, but it would sure make everyone else want to keep track of what they were doing.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PastorJeff said:


> Judazz - sidestepping the snivelling from another member, excellent thoughts that I had in no way heard before, but it sure makes a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, it really scares the snot out of me and gives me great reservation for what the future holds.
> 
> Is this mindset that you speak of predominantly a European area "thing" or do you think that it is a mindset that will end up affecting the US (or any US Allies)? Just curious...because if you think about it, one can not really track down and prevent this type of behavior.
> 
> ...


I think that mindset is predominantly European. Back in the 60's and 70's, lots of people from North Africa (Marocco, Tunesia, Algeria), Turkey, Pakistan and India, the vast majority of them muslims, migrated to Western Europe (they were invated) as cheap labour. The first generation of newcomers did their jobs quietly, but were hardly encouraged by the governments to integrate into Western society, nor to learn to speak our languages. The second generation (a mixture of the first generation of people born in Europe and yet more newcomers) faced a lot of discrimination and were often treated as second-rank citizens, but they basically accepted that as well.
The latest generations however, being much more Westernized, modernized and much higher educated (but to a great extent still facing the same discrimination and exclusion), are much more critical about that, but also about the docile, even submissive attitude of their parents and others from the first two generations. So there's a lot of anger amongst them, and also a much stronger identification which their own background (which is a natural step, as it happens to almost al minorities). The War on Terror and what they see as acts of agression against the worldwide muslim community, which they obviously experience from a very different standpoint (which is only natural, given the strong cohesiveness of Islamic communities) only added to that anger, and in some cases even turned into hatred and anti-Western sentiments. And from there, radicalisation unfortunately is not such a big step.
It's a scary thought indeed, very unsettling, as it only takes a few individuals to become radicalized enough to take drastic measures. And radical responses to radical measures (such as anti-Muslim sentiments amongst the European population, which is quite a logical response to attacks, and fed by fear, paranoia and misunderstanding) only add to what very well could end up as an increasingly out-of-control downward spiral that could result in a completely destabilized society. And although most European muslims denounce the attacks just as strongly as the Europeans themselves, it only takes a tiny yet very violent and determined minority to let things escalate.

It doesn't mean muslims in the US or Canada may not experience the same sentiments, but given the historic background of the problem in Europe I don't think it's as acute or potentialy explosive a problem as on this side of the Atlantic.

Diddye: I know, and I wish I could receive more US and other international networks (Fox not included: I'm talking about objective journalism, not pseudo-propaganda).
But I don't feel like coughing up 40 euro's a month for more TV channels: too expensive for my liking...


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

mrbmum33 said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > PastorJeff said:
> ...


That is a good guess, but I was thinking around 13-14, but you might be right on with your guess. He has a very large set of internet balls.

J2 - The comments that I made are called a "hint". Let me make this very easy to understand so you don't think that I am "criticizing" you "like a little bitch".

The subtle hint was for you to shut up and produce something beyond "dribble". A serious question was asked, and a very good one at that. You broke into your comments that were (in my opinion) rude and very condesending. Judazz was very kind to deal with you in the way that he did, yet you do nothing but flame him back for his very intelligent comments...I don't understand?!? Could it just be a case of huge internet balls? I belive so.

I guess my problem lies not with you, but with Judazz (Judazz...this is sarcasm, but I don't know if J2 will understand that or not), for I do not understand why Judazz did not just bitch slap you into tomorrow...but that is why I am not a moderator and he is. And the sad part is that Judazz is holding back on you...he could tie you in vernacular knots.

Here...let me make this easier on you...

Good question asked. You rude. Judazz smart. You dumb. We talk. You shush.









Hope that helped. Sorry for any confusion with my post above.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> It doesn't mean muslims in the US or Canada may not experience the same sentiments, but given the historic background of the problem in Europe I don't think it's as acute or potentialy explosive a problem as on this side of the Atlantic.
> [snapback]1137126[/snapback]​


Again, very well written post...

But then taking your comments back to the original question (sorry for getting this post off track), if you look at the 9-11 strike, and the 7-7 strike and the attacks in the native lands, why are we not seeing more smaller strikes here in the US rather than just larger attacks?

If my understanding was off on the "why" they are willing to attack (acknowledging that my understanding comes from news media) then why are the smaller attacks successful in the native land and not here in the US or Europe (assuming that they would not be successful in Europe either?!?).

Because of education? Perhaps the pissy, screw you attitude that we have in the US (and I mean that in a good way...think of the flag "Don't tread on me").

Any thoughts?

mrbmum33 - Sorry if I side tracked your thread. Good question, and great conversation in this thread!


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...And laugh all you want...You're the same guy that would give those terroists flight lessons thinking...Like a terroists is really gonna be in a flight class...Next thing you know...Thousands people are dead from 2 planes hitting the world trade center...Cmon...Same ideas apply to this...THEY ARE EVERYWHERE MY FRIEND...Stop closing your eyes to reality.
> [snapback]1068235[/snapback]​


BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That is some of the most hillarious, paranoid, conspiracy-theory inspired ranting that I've ever heard... Congrats right wing media of the USA, you've won another one over!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PastorJeff said:


> The subtle hint was for you to shut up and produce something beyond "dribble". A serious question was asked, and a very good one at that. You broke into your comments that were (in my opinion) rude and very condesending. Judazz was very kind to deal with you in the way that he did, yet you do nothing but flame him back for his very intelligent comments...I don't understand?!? Could it just be a case of huge internet balls? I belive so.[snapback]1137242[/snapback]​


J2 is entitled to have an opinion just like anyone else, and he can interpret a certain post in a certain way (talking about the first post in this topic), but that doesn't mean it _is_ like that, or that _is_ the way the topic starter intended his post to be interpreted - it could take a pretty damn knowledgable shrink to know that after reading just one post (and no one here on this board qualifies, no matter how convinced they are they do







)
Oh well, in the end it teaches us more about the ones behaving in such a way than about those that want to add a constructive 2 cents... There will always be people that think if they say something, that _is_ the way it is, people that decide _for others_ how they meant their posts and how they should be interpreted. Annoying? Yes, very much so. But thruthfully, it's not worth to really bother with it, and certainly not worth enough to get all pissed off about. It happens all the time, and will happen just as often in the future...


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PastorJeff said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't mean muslims in the US or Canada may not experience the same sentiments, but given the historic background of the problem in Europe I don't think it's as acute or potentialy explosive a problem as on this side of the Atlantic.
> ...


Tough one... Let me first say that all I say here are not facts, as I'm not an expert on the matter. All I know is from media, internet and books, and all I post is just an interpretation of what I read and see following the rules of what I was tought in university (I studied Cultural History, and specialized in Islam and Arab culture, and how they affect[ed] past wars (like Afghanistan under Russian dominance, Algeria and Chechnya) as well present-day events). So basically what I say are my own conclusions of what I read, mixed with what I hear and see in the media and what I already knew/learned in the past.

I don't know much about the Muslim community in the US, how and why they moved to the US, and how their social position is. In the end they are just one of so many minorities, where in Europe they are by far the largest non-European minority: certainly large enough to become organized, wheter peacefully or with bad things in mind.
The position of Muslims in Europe has always been one of a minority: that's the way they were treated. Discrimination, exclusion from certain positions, the majority of the lower class citizens. It's party a class struggle, but Islam, the very factor that causes stigmatisation, is at the same time an ideal factor to get them mobilized. I'm not sure what motivates those young Muslims that become radicalized: as said, they used to be normal citizens (one of the 7/7 London bombers worked at a school, Mohammed B. used to do charity work) - there must be something that causes these people to turn to Islam, the most extreme form of Islam to be precise. What goes on the world and what happened in the past certainly plays a major role, but their social position as well. But what exactly causes it? I don't know...
Could it be ordinary payback, inspired by the struggles of their fellow Muslim brothers in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Chechnya (all against infidel, imperial and Western countries, and 9 out of 10 times a reaction against foreign occupation)? Could it be support for those brothers under fire? Could it be they want to establish a society based on in their eyes pure and strict Islamic morals and values, after having lived in morally degenerated and decadent Western society which they started to detest? Could it be politically motivated, as an attempt to put pressure on those governments that are involved in the War on Terror (why the UK, Spain, Turkey and to a lesser extent Holland, and why not Germany, France or Belgium?) Could it be instigated by unknown movements?
Who knows? Fact remains that for some reason European societies seem to be a breeding ground for radicalized Muslims, and the US (so far) is not.

The reason why it happens in the native lands (I assume you mean the Islamic countries where war is waged) is simply, however: that's the war zone, that's the place where the front of the battle lies. That's the place where the advance of Western influence can be stopped most easily (the attacks in Europe don't affect that war from a military point of view). And that's the place where Muslims are forced to live under Western colonisation and dominance.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

A huge thanks to Judazzz and PastorJeff for trying to keep this thread on track. This topic was intended for progessive thinkers, not close minded people. I'm still very interested in opinions on terrorist motives and tactics. Please post opinions on what you think terrorisim is about. It's important that we talk about it because ignoring the problem just makes it worse.

Brian


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

mrbmum33 said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > PastorJeff said:
> ...


Yeah...you're so intelligent...if you could f*ckin' read...you'd know I'm 23...gonna be 24 in 2 days...So why don't you shut your ignorant mouth. Oh wait you can't you're too busy mouth f*cking that poodle in your avatar.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> mrbmum33 said:
> 
> 
> > ((( J2 ))) said:
> ...


Listen man...I understand what you were doing was a HINT...why do you think I asked you to stop indirectly, or HINTING, if that makes you happier...criticsizing me...I guess you are the one that isn't smart enough to realize that hinting someone is dumb....is the same thing as being indirect...And I'm the 13-14 year old kid huh? Riiiight...now who's dumb...You can shush now...Thank you come again.

And Judazz isn't gonna lay the smack down on me...Because I owned him...he criticsized me for having my opinion and not letting people have freedom of speech...But that was the whole point...I am expressing my right of free speech just as much as you, the topic starter and Judazz...so he got owned...Done.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Mettle said:


> ((( J2 ))) said:
> 
> 
> > Firstly...are you seriously that blind to think that a terrorist couldn't be in a fish forum? Especially one designated for Piranha's...The most publicized "evil" and "fierce" fish...A piranha is like a terrorists dream of a pet...Violent, Deadly and Savage Instincts...Pretty similar to a terrorist I would say...And laugh all you want...You're the same guy that would give those terroists flight lessons thinking...Like a terroists is really gonna be in a flight class...Next thing you know...Thousands people are dead from 2 planes hitting the world trade center...Cmon...Same ideas apply to this...THEY ARE EVERYWHERE MY FRIEND...Stop closing your eyes to reality.
> ...


Man, I wish I would have never wrote that...but it was for an arguement...of a simple fact...that...I would think IF...keyword here...IF a terrorist were to be in a fish forum...I would say the piranha forum would be a better chance...then a goldfish forum...That was the point I was trying to make...I'm not saying they are here...I'm just saying this would be the best chance...based on those facts about a piranha's savage insticts and a terrorists lack of humanity...putting them down to savage instincts...Get it, got it, GOOD!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

You owned me?















Your latest reply once again illustrates you haven't understood a single f*cking thing about what I said in this thread - but yeah, ownage it is, total and utter ownage. If you'd excuse me, I'll now retreat to my bath room to quietly weep in a corner of my shower....

Oh, and just to get you off your high horse: I didn't "smack down on you" because you owned me - there are different reasons for that....


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> You owned me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Judazz...I understand you completely...here are your points:

_I, J2, think I'm right...so by thinking this...I bash anyone who doesn't agree with me.

I, J2, have no right to do this, since we live in America, which is a free country and has freedom of speech.

Where do I, J2, get off telling others how to think and what is right to talk about?_

These are you main points to me...I understand what you are saying...But see its hypocritcal of you to say these things...Especially with you being a MOD...You're whole damn job on this site is to judge what IS and what ISN'T apporiate to say and talk about...I mean could you be any more hyproctical?

That's where you got owned...Because I have as much right as anyone...to express my opinions...and to tell people what I think...If I think they should stfu...then its my american right to express that...So listen to yourself...and you might learn something.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

((( J2 ))) said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > You owned me?
> ...


Ok, last attempt: where did I say you're not entitled of have your own opinions? Where did I bash you? Where do I tell others what to say or what to think?
I want to see some quotes of my posts in this thread where I specifically say those things - find some, and you may have owned me (since that really seems to arouse you in a weird manner). Find none, and you officially made yourself look like an ass in public.

And please, stfu about "I'm an American, I have freedom of speech" - I never denied that in the first place, so please stop bringing up things that are a)fabrications and b) irrelevant to what I have said or meant.

Quit that bleeding heart "I'm a victim" attitude: you're not, and no one told you you are...


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

My responses are in *RED*



Judazzz said:


> Ok, last attempt: where did I say you're not entitled of have your own opinions?
> 
> You never came out and directly said...you aren't entitled to your opinions...its the way you bashed me and ridiculed me for my opinions
> 
> ...





Judazzz said:


> Again, since when do you determine what needs to be addressed and what does not? If this question is bugging him for a while, why not ask it and debate about it? *It's a free country, so he can do it - it's his goddam.... ummm... god-given right to do so. What you think about that, or wheter you like it or find it not important enough to be addressed is 100% irrelevant.*
> He can talk about it all he wants - yes, you can whine about it all you want as well, about how we can't stop it so we should stfu about it, about how we might even inspire terrorists so we shouldn't go into details (*can't believe anyone is actually deranged enough to actually believe that*, but that's another issue), about you deciding for all other members that it's not worth caring about (funny line of thought, btw), hell, you can even _decide for us_ that it doesn't need to be addressed (which is totally laughable, of course) - what are you going to do about that? It won't stop people from talking about it - you're opinion on that is not a factor of any importance, as he just wanted to talk about it, not defend his reasons why. You called him out, not vice versa - don't forget that
> 
> 
> ...


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response...








I'm not going to debate with someone that appears to be reading impaired (or at least deliberatly misinterprets my posts and bends and twists my words to discredit me), nor with someone who thinks (or at least raises the impression) that the ultimate goal of a discussion is "ownage" of another person...

I'm done with this







(and feel free to interpret that as being owned - here's a cookie







)


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

((( J2 ))), you have no freedom of speach on a privately owned message board. Xenon at anytime he wishes, can deleted or edit anything on this board anytime he wants. He can also ban anyone for any reason.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

J2 - All you are doing here is PROVING what an utter moron you truly are. You sit in your own arrogance acting like you really have an intelligent opinoin on this issue and you really don't.

Rather than bash Judazz, you should be thanking him for allowing your moronic ramblings, for if I was the moderator, I would have banned you for being so rude to a member here and disrespecting the Moderator.

You are entitled to your opinion, but all I see is you slamming other people that are trying to have a decent conversation on a certain subject. Why I don't know. People have thrown you subtle hints to back off, you have ignored them. People have directly tried to converse with you about your ignorance, you have ignored them. People have told you to shut up (namely myself) and you have ignored them.

Your comments prove the following...

1. Your an idiot that does not even come close to understanding the art of conversation.

2. You have no respect for anyone. You have been nothing but rude to all on this (and other) threads

3. You are totally disrespectful of any authority that resides on this forum. You have shown that time and time again.

So I am kindly asking you to keep your comments to yourself. Nobody wants to hear them. I only respond to you now because I get sick of jerks like yourself that push your ignorant weight around like it is really worth something.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> ((( J2 ))), you have no freedom of speach on a privately owned message board. Xenon at anytime he wishes, can deleted or edit anything on this board anytime he wants. He can also ban anyone for any reason.
> [snapback]1143881[/snapback]​


I agree with what you are saying...Which is why I am saying mods are hyporcitical to bash me...for saying what I think should or shouldn't be said...But they can turn and delete any topic they want, bash anyone they want...and ban anyone they want...It's their right to do so, YES...but its still hypocritical any way you look at it.


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

The people that we are fighting against in iraq arent capable of doing that kind of stuff..but al qaeda is...face it the president is an idiot...


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

whoops! Double post...sorry


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> J2 - All you are doing here is PROVING what an utter moron you truly are. You sit in your own arrogance acting like you really have an intelligent opinoin on this issue and you really don't.
> 
> Rather than bash Judazz, you should be thanking him for allowing your moronic ramblings, for if I was the moderator, I would have banned you for being so rude to a member here and disrespecting the Moderator.
> 
> ...


A-men brother!

I rarely agree with the Netherworld dude on political/social issues. However, I enjoy the occasional discussions we have. Although both of us are more than capable of pushing each other's buttons, we must always attempt to conduct ourselves as gentleman. It doesn't always work out and I regret whenever I find myself in a weak moment because I feel it de-legitimizes my intended point. No need to get personal. We can have opinions but we should be able to defend out positions without resorting to name calling or personal attacks. I have failed in that endeavor in the past. My goal is to become a better and more persuasive arguer of my positions.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> J2 - All you are doing here is PROVING what an utter moron you truly are. You sit in your own arrogance acting like you really have an intelligent opinoin on this issue and you really don't.
> 
> Rather than bash Judazz, you should be thanking him for allowing your moronic ramblings, for if I was the moderator, I would have banned you for being so rude to a member here and disrespecting the Moderator.
> 
> ...


Dude...You're seriously missing the point...Instead of saying stupid comments like I am proving that I am a Moron...Why don't you actually quote me and prove this...I could say you're a fuckin' trailer trash piece of crap with the iq of a doorknob...But does that mean its true? Not exactly...It would just be my opinion...Until I could prove it...I would have nothing.

And let's get 1 thing straight...YOU AREN'T A MOD...So I could give 2 shits about what you would do to me...You can't do anything, but sit there and take it...So stop crying like a baby about what you would do...I DON'T CARE.

And lastly...about your 3 points...You really have no f*ckin clue do you...I'm not even gonna addess point 1...that's just your opinion...and you haven't proved sh*t on it...and you could say...the way I present my arguments proves it...but again...thats just your opinion...but to look at point 2 & 3....WTF is wrong with you...Do you know how to read...I called the original poster out for sounding like a traitor...BECAUSE TO ME...His comments made him SOUND like he was...Then I got flamed and bashed for stating my opinion...I defend my opinion...And now that makes me disrespectful? If someone disrespects me...or calls me a name...I'm coming back with something...You can bet on it...I don't care if it's a mod...or just a pfury member...I'm not gonna kiss anyone's ass to stay on their good side...I'm gonna state my opinion and defend it, whether you, they, or anyone else likes it or not.








So the SHUT THE F*CK UP ALREADY...I'M DONE WITH YOU...You're nothing to me...so stop wasting my damn time.









P.S.
All you can say whatever else it is you want about me...I'm done arguing with all of you...It's not going anywhere and wtf should I care anyway? I ain't losing sleep over this sh*t...although it seems most of you will, trying to come up with the ulimate comment that will just shut me up...But there's no need to...I'm just gonna agree to disagree and move on with my life.


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> PastorJeff said:
> 
> 
> > J2 - All you are doing here is PROVING what an utter moron you truly are. You sit in your own arrogance acting like you really have an intelligent opinoin on this issue and you really don't.
> ...


Peace, love, and grooviness, people! Personal attacks weaken your argument. They shift the focus from what might actually be a good point you are making.


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## mrbmum33 (Feb 20, 2005)

((( J2 ))) said:


> mrbmum33 said:
> 
> 
> > ((( J2 ))) said:
> ...


You shouldn't have admitted you are in your mid twenties. I was giving you a way out due to your mental youth. You should be ashamed with some of your posts. You really need to take time to go back over some of your comments. You seem to have a problem controling your emotions and lack the ability to think before you type. I think that's the main reason everyone here thinks your are in your early teens. You have brought this on yourself and you need to learn a lesson from what happened in this thread.


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