# Rareafishinado



## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

For 2 weeks i have tried to contact this guy via email and phone . All i wanted was just a few questions asked and some pics of the " actuall" fish i would be getting .  He would not comply . I finally got tied of trying to get my questions answered about quality and a few other things . So i just asked for the pics . He then sent me a pic of a parrot of some type laid out on a table. The pic was sloppy and blurry. You couldnt tell anything by it. I then asked him " again" to send me a pic of the 6 inchers in their tank that he would be sending me. He would not comply . He kept dodging the questions and wouldnt answer anything. He expected me to send him $200 not including shipping , without seeing the fish i would be getting. I told him i needed pics . He also gave me his # and so i called. He would never answer . So he said he would call me back. He never would. But yet he wanted me to send money . YEAH RIGHT.

So then a member of our fhusa started a thread about kk parrots and where to find them . Someone then reffered him to Jon Rare . So i decided to also post my experience with him . It then got back to Jon as i knew it would and he decided to flame me on waterwolves . He said that he had figured me out and didnt like my tone when we were talking business. I then replied and told everyone the true story and how i was extreemly civil and nice to the man during our dealings.

I even have the emails to back it up.

There was not one bad thing said in my emails. I praised him and praised him, and told him how much i looked forward to his kk. But he would simply never send pics. 
Well i went back to the thread on water wolves and found out that he had deleted my reply but left his. It made it seem very one sided . He has deleted 3 of my post over there . 
I have recently found out that he is planning to finally post the fish he was going to sell me over there to prove the quality of them . That may indeed be so but i urge people to beware. I spent 2 weeks trying to converse with him and he never would . I am very suspicious of this person and even if he has posted pics of some 6 inch kk, just beware. That doesnt necessarilly mean that he has them . Who knows , maybe he does . Who knows what he has, he wont communicate . Another member just told me that they wanted to order a different type of fish but couldnt get pics either. So he cancled his order .

I am giving everyone a heads up because others have also told me he has had shady dealings in the past. I have also heard good things about him . So order at your own risk . I have just recieved a pm just a little while ago stating how he does not send you fish that he shows you. He also deletes posts of others that gives him any type of negative feed back. This has not only happened to me but to others as well .

Just a few minutes ago he had started a thread about a type of fish he was advertising . I think it was a type of gobi . I would have to go back and see. Anyway, one of water wolves members just now got on there and said that he was advertising a fish that wasnt the kind that he was saying it was. Jon was using a different name to sell his fish . Well, i just went back there and the guys post was deleted . Why he is deleting posts , i dont know . But its shady.

Also their administrator " clay" told me to leave Jon alone . When i explained to him that Jon was deleting post he just ignored me . So im guess that i may get banned from over there when they find out that posted this . I really dont care. I joined just a few days ago just so i could contact Jon . He must pay them well over there . They dont want him touched . Even when alot of people have serious issues with their dealings with him . I dont knwo wahts going on. Im confused .

This man may indeed be a reputable dealer. I dont know . But i want to give people the heads up before they order from him. I have heard many bad things about him from some members of CM. I will never order from him. <_<


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Eh, even people that customers seem to speak highly of have bad experiences. I emailed pedro about the fish he was claiming to be S.Medinai to get some clarification on how he knew he had such a rare fish as I had no interest in buying a Spilo CF and never got an answer back from him. I didn't get all upset about it, I just went and bought a rhom elsewhere because I knew what I was getting (could see it myself through the tank glass). Other people seem to speak highly of him so I wouldn't down on him as a vendor, I just know that not everyone is going to have a positive experience all of the time. I didn't have an experience that encouraged me to buy from him, so I didn't. I wouldn't recommend not buying from him as a result though.


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

hmmm long story short

i was hospitalized over the new yr,,,,,,

smaug/bilbo emailed me for some parrots

i supplied a pic

he wanted better pics

in the mean time one of my customers told me some things smaug had said about me and it pissed me off,,, i decided not to sell to him as this is my right because i classified him as a potential problematic customer,, as you can see from his post here and at other board i was correct.

make a long story shorter he is all bent and is posting this on everyboard

i didnt receieve a dime from him nor do i want to receive a dime from him

my apologies to the people at pfury,,,,,,

yes there are few members that dislike me but there are hundreds who have received great service and great fish from me,,,,,

once again sorry this had to be aired here and i look foward to being a sponsor of this site come feb 1 2005


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

RARE AFISHINADO said:


> i didnt receieve a dime from him nor do i want to receive a dime from him
> [snapback]850144[/snapback]​


The CRITICAL POINT HERE, hence no business was conducted and Dildo has nothing to bitch about.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RARE AFISHINADO Posted Today, 08:35 PM
> hmmm long story short
> 
> i was hospitalized over the new yr,,,,,,
> ...


Didn't you know this forum is the Dr. Phil of the internet?


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

as far as the goby thread,, it was a simple id mistake,,, i advertised it with the common name and the sci name which was incorrect,, once i was notified i changed the for sale post to the correct name,, the post had a pic attached i was not looking to mislead anyone,,, i erased the post from conman because he was freaking out telling me i was ripped off etc which was not the case it was a simple id mistake and leaving the post made my forum look sloppy and hard to read,,

secondly clay doesnt protect me,, bilbo/smaug was flooding my forum with negative posts and derailing threads which is a no no in the buy and sell forum



Bilbo said:


> Just a few minutes ago he had started a thread about a type of fish he was advertising . I think it was a type of gobi . I would have to go back and see. Anyway, one of water wolves members just now got on there and said that he was advertising a fish that wasnt the kind that he was saying it was. Jon was using a different name to sell his fish . Well, i just went back there and the guys post was deleted . Why he is deleting posts , i dont know . But its shady.
> 
> Also their administrator " clay" told me to leave Jon alone . When i explained to him that Jon was deleting post he just ignored me . So im guess that i may get banned from over there when they find out that posted this . I really dont care. I joined just a few days ago just so i could contact Jon . He must pay them well over there . They dont want him touched . Even when alot of people have serious issues with their dealings with him . I dont knwo wahts going on. Im confused .


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

RARE AFISHINADO said:


> as far as the goby thread,, it was a simple id mistake,,, i advertised it with the common name and the sci name which was incorrect,, once i was notified i changed the for sale post to the correct name,, the post had a pic attached i was not looking to mislead anyone,,, i erased the post from conman because he was freaking out telling me i was ripped off etc which was not the case it was a simple id mistake and leaving the post made my forum look sloppy and hard to read,,
> 
> secondly clay doesnt protect me,, bilbo/smaug was flooding my forum with negative posts and derailing threads which is a no no in the buy and sell forum
> [snapback]850182[/snapback]​


You are such a liar . If people only new the way you handled the situation dude . You did not refuse to sell to me until i had confronted you and your shady conduct on another thread . I told you there was no need to send me pics cause i wasnt buying . Tell it like it is man . Your like the boss who told his guy he was fired after the guy had already quit . This is how it went .

You wanted me to send money. I asked certain questions that you kept dodging. I then asked for pics of the fish i would be getting . After many, many, many, attempts to get pics of the actuall fish i would be getting , you plopped a fish out on the table and said this is what it looked like . I then said i needed to see the exact kk i would be getting . It was just one shot that i was asking for . Just a shot of them in the tank they were in so i could see their quality . After all .... you wanted me to send you $200 . Not including shipping yet . You then would not answer my emails . You finally answered and said i could call you Monday. I called but you would not answer . You emailed me and told me to call on Tuesday. I called and you told me that you would call me back in an hour. You didnt. i called again and again and again . You then finally replied to my email and ensured me that your kk were quality . But i still insisted on a pic of the fish i would get.

At that point i had finally given up . Then someone posted on fhusa that they were looking for kk . Someone reffered you to them so i decided to step in and give a warning . I also said on another site that i was looking for kk and that you were not communicating so i had to find another supplier . That was not a FLAME. You then started to flame me bad though and telling lies about how you cut me off. Which was strange to me since you had never told me that. And how could you have since i was as nice as could be to you the whole time . I then replied back to your lies and then you deleted all 4 of my post and left yours. I left detailed replys that told the whole thing but you deleted them to save your butt . So now everyone sees just one side of it over there .

I had developed a suspicion of you and thought i would share it with the rest of the class . If you and your cronies dont like it then to bad. I said my piece . And no matter what heat i might take for it , at least now people will ask you more questions before they order from you.

Since i have posted this topics in 3 forums total, i have recieved " MANY" complaints about your shady dealings . So it makes me think that my suspicion was right . I also know that there are alot of people that think highly of you. And thats fine . But i wanted to give people a heads up before they ordered from you because of my dealings with you . No i did not get screwed . No there was no money passed. But the whole point was to give a warning .

Is the president supposed to ignore the signs and wait for a missle attack to hit the country before he warns them ? Or should he take the strange signs into consideration and give the people a warning ?

Except it or not , i still said what i had to say. I can take the support or the heat . Im a big boy .


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

i told motoro ray a week ago i didnt wanna sell to u,, but i kept having second thoughts and than u kept reminding me how much i didn wanna sell to you,,,,

ask ray i discussed it with him like 8-10 days ago

figured u would just go away


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

go to bed,, u have done this on several forums,,, its getting old

ur not getting any kk parrots from me,, so drop it

ps ur initial post is filled with so many lies i dont know where to begin

good night


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> The CRITICAL POINT HERE, hence no business was conducted and Dildo has nothing to bitch about.
> [snapback]850178[/snapback]​


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

you are only here because the thread u started at cichlidmadness was locked,,

hmm thats one of ur home boards,, i dont have any pull there,, wonder why they locked it........


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## asian_redtail_catfish (Sep 25, 2003)

Bilbo, it seems like he did not want to take the pics or sell it to you..You should have left it like that rather than trying to pursue it...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I am monitoring this thread closely. It seems to me this thread was made more out of a personal vendetta than a valiud customer complaint. Even then, this can be handled in other ways.

Would you like access to a private forum to work out your differences?


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## piranhatom (Nov 22, 2004)

well id have to back bilbo on this one, if he was buying a 200 dollar fish why could you not send him a picture of it cmon he in the right mind would give u two houndred dolalrs espesaily without a picture.


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## the_w8 (Jul 28, 2003)

oh the drama


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## the_w8 (Jul 28, 2003)

face it no one wins....no one will come out the bigger guy....i say jus drop the issue and find another repudible source besides poor jonny, he's gotta enuff customers to deal with......


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

he had a pic,,, he wanted more and better pics,,,,,

after some email convos i decided i really didnt wanna deal with him,,, and never got around to taking more pics,,,

ps the fish was not 200 dollars it was 30 or so

i send pics of all of the fish i sell,,, ask anyone who buys off me,, my pics may not be nice but i send em



piranhatom said:


> well id have to back bilbo on this one, if he was buying a 200 dollar fish why could you not send him a picture of it cmon he in the right mind would give u two houndred dolalrs espesaily without a picture.
> [snapback]850271[/snapback]​


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

remember as a dealer i have the right to refuse service to any individual just like the customer has the right to choose any dealer as they see fit,,,


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

ps im all for working this out,,, but for now im off to bed

o for the record,,, yesterday bilbo posted this at waterwolves and i told him the truth and that i would reconsider and give him a nice price break,,, but today he posted some rude comments so now we are back to square one,,,,

i took 8-10 new pics for him today and when i sat down at my pc to upload them i saw his comments and it reminded me why i decided not to sell to him in the first place

this is the gods honest truth


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## the_w8 (Jul 28, 2003)

well too bad people gotta fire they're mouth off sometimes...patience is keen


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Xenon said:


> I am monitoring this thread closely. It seems to me this thread was made more out of a personal vendetta than a valiud customer complaint. Even then, this can be handled in other ways.
> 
> Would you like access to a private forum to work out your differences?
> [snapback]850268[/snapback]​


^^^^^^^^.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I am monitoring this thread closely. It seems to me this thread was made more out of a personal vendetta than a valiud customer complaint. Even then, this can be handled in other ways.
> 
> Would you like access to a private forum to work out your differences?
> [snapback]850268[/snapback]​


Isnt that what the PM function is used for?


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

Atlanta Braves Baby! said:


> Isnt that what the PM function is used for?
> [snapback]850383[/snapback]​


I was gonna say the same thing


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## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

Xenon said:


> I am monitoring this thread closely. It seems to me this thread was made more out of a personal vendetta than a valiud customer complaint. Even then, this can be handled in other ways.
> 
> Would you like access to a private forum to work out your differences?
> [snapback]850268[/snapback]​


Lets just throw some gloves on em and let em GO

HAHA

On a side note the statement "this thread was made more out of a personal vendetta than a valid customer complaint" couldnt have been more accurate.
Moving forward......


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

some people perfer some vendors over others. If you dont like him state your advice to buyers and leave him alone. Obviously JOn does not want your business and you dont have to give him business and that is the end of that.

A simliar situation occured with George aka shark aquarium about a buyer who wanted pictures of the fish they were intrested in purchasing. Goerge didnt respond or didnt give him pictures simply because he was a busy man and couldnt grant everyone specific wishs. And if did he wouldnt have time to ship any fishs out.

I dont know if you ever delt with George but some times you have to put faith into these vendors in what you order. I've requested pics from George and i never got them yet i still ordered and the fish came in beautiful!


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## Clay (Feb 28, 2003)

This is what I said to Bilbo:
Hey, that's not your forum. Please refrain from posting there. The forum belongs to Rare and he may do as he wishes in that forum. I politely ask that if you're not going to buy that you don't even bother looking at his forum.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I am a hobbyist. I dont want to see any hobbyist get screwed over. But I also dont want to see a businessman who supports this hobby to be slandered "in public" due to some personal vendetta.

So the easy solution is to take this discussion to a private forum to work out your differences. This way you can have one on one contact with the seller to answer your requests and work things out. On top of that, the seller doesnt feel like you are just trying to smear his name through the mud.

If someone refuses to take it private (or doesnt respond to my post) I cant see how it isnt a personal vendetta..... honestly.


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

he cant get a pic of every fish you want or any for that matter, hes a busy man, give him some slack...


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## One Bad Malafaala (Aug 6, 2003)

I have never bought a fish online but if I ever did I would buy from Jon Rare.

I have seen much positive feedback from the "hardcore" hobbiests, with an occasional bad feedback from some guy nobody ever heard of.

Don't sweat it Jon you have a soild reputation built.


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## RARE AFISHINADO (Apr 15, 2003)

thanks for the support guys,,,


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I can't believe this is over a pic and with no money spent. How is this such a big deal? sh*t happens. I got rays from Jon once and they died a week or so after. They weren't the fish for me, oh well, but they arrived healthy







. I have had George at SA give me misidentifications and late emails back, etc. The business isn't perfect and neither are we. Not too big on the tattooed fish though, Jon.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

RARE AFISHINADO said:


> ps im all for working this out,,, but for now im off to bed
> 
> o for the record,,, yesterday bilbo posted this at waterwolves and i told him the truth and that i would reconsider and give him a nice price break,,, but today he posted some rude comments so now we are back to square one,,,,
> 
> ...


You may fool everyone else but not me. I know what happend . And i did what i set out to do . No matter if i take heat for this or not, i accomplished what i thought was right . 
You said that you were going to give me another chance and decided not to when you read my posts. The truth is that you decided not to because i told you to keep your pics cause i would not be ordering. You then came back and told me that you were not interested in selling to me any more after you read that post . You then deleted that post so others couldnt read it . And left your post there. You said you told Motoro ray that you didnt want to sell me anything ? You said this was 8-10 ago? And why is that ? 8-10 ago i was as civil and as nice as i could be to you. I was very nice and patient . You are lieing. Just a week ago you told me to call you . Just a week ago you told me that you would call me right back because you were eating dinner . So dont sit here and tell these lies. I have the emails buddy








Further more. Cichlid maddness is not my home . Yes I do like that forum and visit it frequently but its not my home site . Fhusa is my home site and people there are glad i signaled a warning on you. Also the thread on CM got locked because it was spinning out of control. I knew it would get locked. Threads like that always do . But again , i accomplished what i set out to do. I told others what i was going to do and they supported me and told me horror stories about you. I have a pm right now from somone from this site who said that you did him terribly wrong. There are many, many, people who are just not wanting to come into the lime light. But thats ok. I will do it. I can take it . Read the thread on CM again . You will find mixed views . Some side with you, others with me. Its always that way. But you will prolly have less support at fhusa. Do you know why ? Because those are hybrid lovers . And since hybrids are so expensive, people are weary of people try to sell these expensive fish with no pic. Or no phone conversations, or someone who delets posts . And THATS why i called you out. So other people could be aware. Thats all.


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

im buying 2fish from pedro that cost $150 ea soon, im not even thinkin about asking for a pic. they basically all look the same. if i had more money, id buy two leos from jon which are i think $275 ea and i still wouldnt ask for a pic, black plate with a tail and some white dots on it, all are in good health too....


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

acestro said:


> I can't believe this is over a pic and with no money spent. How is this such a big deal? sh*t happens. I got rays from Jon once and they died a week or so after. They weren't the fish for me, oh well, but they arrived healthy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THis is not just about a pic. He sent me a pic. It was slapped on a table and blurry. You couldnt tell what the quality was. But i wanted to see the actuall 6 fish that i was going to get. Thats ALLLLLLLLL i wanted at the time . He would not comply. He then told me i could call him. And then he said he would call me.

You see the whole point was that he wanted me to send the $200 for the fish without getting the pic of the fish i was going to recieve . This made me suspiscious . So i called and called and called. He then was making excuses of why he couldnt get to the phone. One was that he got stung by a ray. I believe this since i seen it on the site . But another was im eating and ill call you right back . And then another was something else..... i would have to go look at my emails . Well, he is saying that he was trying to cut me off. Why ? Because i was asking for pics ? And this is not true anyway since he had replied to an email after that, that indicated that i could still order from him. 
So then i gave up. I just totally gave up. AND THATS THE HONEST TRUTH . So here a few days ago i see someone on fhusa wanting kk . Then someone reffered the guy to JON. I seen this and felt compelled to give a simple warning . Thats all.

A SIMPLE WARNING . The warning was that , i could not get a pic of the actuall fish i was getting . And the guy does not communicate well . So be warned . That was my warning . Now, was that so bad ? Wasnt i justified ?

Well i then noticed a guy on WW that had some of Jon's kk. I then asked him where i could find another source of kk because Jon would not communicate or send me a pic of the actuall fish i was getting . AND thats when Jon flamed me and delete my post .

After that i then posted two other times about the matter and he then deleted those posts.

So THEN i really became suspiscious and decided to post a warning on him . And here i am . I did not want other people to openly buy from him with no communication or pics of the fish they were going to get . After all . These are hybrids and these are not $10 fish were talking about . These were $50 a pop. And then the inchers were $100 a pop. So i decided to give people a heads up . No money exchanged hands . No one got screwed . but the whole point of the matter was to prevent people from getting screwed .

Did you know that this guy deleted two other guys posts besides mine just yesterday. One told him that he had named the fish wrong. The guy was just correcting him. And the other just nicely said that he had found some at half that price. Jon flamed them both and deleted their posts . I here he does that alot . 
Folks , i know that alot of you here like the man, and thats fine. With time, you will see that im not a bad guy after all . I assure you . But there are others who are very happy that i posted a warning like i did . Believe it or not, there are alot of others .


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

illnino said:


> im buying 2fish from pedro that cost $150 ea soon, im not even thinkin about asking for a pic. they basically all look the same. if i had more money, id buy two leos from jon which are i think $275 ea and i still wouldnt ask for a pic, black plate with a tail and some white dots on it, all are in good health too....
> [snapback]850763[/snapback]​


 Then order at your own risk dude . You keep that up , you are bound to get fried some time . Thats just not smart business. I know that you probably trust Jon, but guess what..... i dont know the man from Adam . So you have to establish a trust basis first . And a man refusing to send a simple pic of the actual fish your ordering is not a man i want to do business with. If i had ordered from him a few times and established trust then it may had been a different story. 
Ordering over the net without seeing a pic of your fish first is just plain dumb . Go to aquabid.com and see how many people will order expensive fish without seeing pics first . Is this not common sense ?


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bilbo said:


> then order at your own risk dude . You keep that up , you are bound to get fried some time . Thats just not smart business. I know that you probably trust Jon, but guess what..... i dont know the man from Adam . So you have to establish a trust basis first . And a man refusing to send a simple pic of the actual fish your ordering is not a man i want to do business with. If i had ordered from him a few time and established trust then it may had been a different story.
> Ordering over the net without seeing a pic of your fish first is just plain dumb . Go to aquabid.com and see how many people will order expensive fish without seeing pics first . Is this not common sense ?
> [snapback]850774[/snapback]​


No, common sense would be to not participate in a deal you aren't comfortable with. Common sense is NOT deciding you don't like a deal and then bitching about it on three different forums telling everyone else what to do like they can't think for themselves.

Mike, why isn't that private forum arranged yet?


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

;dude, it isnt dumb to not see a pic of the3 fish. they all look the f*cking same... and you know what, if they die, ill get my money back and get new ones. i have emailed jon for a little bit a month or so ago about his ray stock and he has been very helpfull and would be willing to do anything within reason to keep the customer happy. taking 6 good pictures of the exact fish you are getting will be very hard, firsd hed have to seperate them from the rest so he is sure eh will send you the ones you want, then waste some more time on trying to get good pics, then email them to you. with that time, he couldhave done tons of more sales and/or work on his fish and tanks.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

I think any consumer reserves the right to request a picture of the goods before purchasing. I mean when you walk into a grocery store to buy vegetables do you want someone to just fill your cart with what they want you to have...or do you want to pick it our yourself? Same with fish, when you walk into your LFS, do you go straight up to the counter and tell the person working what you want and have them bag it for you or do you want to look at the selection of what you want and pick it out? (This does not apply to feeders.) Point being, its common business practice to show the consumer the goods before purchasing. No one purchases things blindly in "real life" ...why should online be different?

Just my opinion.

EDIT: I in no way am for/against Rare's business, just stating opinion on the general idea.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Basically i gave people a heads up because of the suspiscion that was created because of these reasons .

Told me to call, so i call 5-6 times but no answer.

Told me to call on Tuesday. But then says hes eating dinner and he will call me shortly. No call.

I call sooooo many times after that. No answer .

I email asking simple basic questions . Only answers the ones he wants to but leaves most of them unanswered.

Sends me a blurry pic of a kk, but will not send me a pic of the actuall $200 fishes im going to be getting. And by the way , he said it was the only one he had. And that he didnt have any others . Which is fine . I can respect that. But all the rest of the signs made me suspiscious also. He aslo had taken some pics of his larger ones but couldnt of his 6 inchers ? Hmmmmm. he told me that this is what they would look like later . HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I then give a simple warning that the man does not comminicate well so be careful when ordering . Thats all.

He then deletes all 4 of my posts .

So you see its not all about just the pics . That was a small part of it. I have sent people away from buying from me because i didnt have a pic . Thats not the issure here . Its all an issue. It created a suspiscion that i thought was worthy of a warning to the public.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Dude, suspicion of *what???*

Over and over you've made refference that you're suspicious of something, and this raised your suspicions, and you got suspicious because something else, what are you suspicious of? The man is running a business and you're sitting around slandering the f*ck out of him without actually saying anything beyond "i'm suspicious of something" and that's bullshit. What have you given people a heads up on? What viable information have you provided anyone beyond "I got suspicious"???


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

illnino said:


> ;dude, it isnt dumb to not see a pic of the3 fish. they all look the f*cking same... and you know what, if they die, ill get my money back and get new ones. i have emailed jon for a little bit a month or so ago about his ray stock and he has been very helpfull and would be willing to do anything within reason to keep the customer happy. taking 6 good pictures of the exact fish you are getting will be very hard, firsd hed have to seperate them from the rest so he is sure eh will send you the ones you want, then waste some more time on trying to get good pics, then email them to you. with that time, he couldhave done tons of more sales and/or work on his fish and tanks.
> [snapback]850786[/snapback]​


If you cant take pics of the $200 worth of fish you are trying to sell then you shouldnt be surprised if certain people wont bite the hook . This is the interenet dude . Its common sense to get a good pic or pics in case a deal gows wrong. They all look the same? Thats bull . There is quality and there is crap . I can tell somewaht by seeing a pic. This determins wheter or not i want to order from a guy.

I just put on hold 3 different flower horns from across sees. Its going to cost me $1350 . Now do you think i would do that without pics ? I had him send me alot of pics so that i can make sure its the same fish he was trying to sell me over the net. To make sure it was the same quality. To do otherwise would just be plain foolish.


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## FreakyAcidTripper (Dec 7, 2004)

Bilbo,

i aint trying to change your mind on this, just trying to point some stuff out to you, that you may not have thought about, i am also not trying to side with anyone.

I appreciate you trying to get the warning out because you don't want anyone to get "jipped" but I also want you to stop and think about how hard it is to run a buisness, taking care of the fish, shipping them, taking orders, and doing everything else that a person who runs a buisness does.

jon probably gave you a picture of the fish, being nice and taking some time out of his schedual for you, and even putting some effort into doing so should show that he does care about his customers, but the reason it might not have been high quality, but atleast he did, and can you blame him for not taking more right away? it takes time away from doing other MAJOR important things, and atleast he went back and still tried to work with you even after this whole problem.

just my idea and how I see things, I can't say any of its for sure since I don't know 100% what happend.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Dude, suspicion of *what???*
> 
> Over and over you've made refference that you're suspicious of something, and this raised your suspicions, and you got suspicious because something else, what are you suspicious of? The man is running a business and you're sitting around slandering the f*ck out of him without actually saying anything beyond "i'm suspicious of something" and that's bullshit. What have you given people a heads up on? What viable information have you provided anyone beyond "I got suspicious"???
> [snapback]850792[/snapback]​


The suspicioun was that the way the man would not give pics of the actuall fish. And that he would not answer questions . And that he dodged phone calls . So when someone asked about him in another forum, i gave them a warning that i couldnt get info from him so just beware . Thats all . And then when Jon came and deleted posts it made the suspicioun worse like he was trying to cover something up something. So that is why i posted a thread about him. If you dont like it , thats just fine . You are not going to see it the way i see it. You have already proved that on cm . I still feel the way i do about it and would do it again if i had to.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

So all you've said is that your customer service level was below your expectations. That's not something you warn people about, it's something other people should be able to determine themselves when they order. If Jon had made some kind of misrepresentation that caused you to send money and then not get the treatment you wanted you would have something to bitch about, but you can't complain and start warning people about someone just because you don't like the way he does business. If I go to an online fish site and the website is an unnavigatable piece of sh*t, I don't order there. It's not in my position to go telling people not to go there, because that's the choice of the consumer. You were not misled in any way, you were not lied to, Jon did not misrepresent the fish he was selling, he did not charge you for something you did not get, you don't have anything to complain about.


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## ty (May 14, 2004)

You are calling him out for not giving you better quality pics? Your being a total ass about the entire issue , you never lost anything out of the deal and in exchange your badmouthing him and his business. Youre trying to threaten another persons lively hood over your chicldish acts. I HAVE done business with Jon and there was NOTHING shady about him. it seems to me your just upset because you want a vendor to kiss your ass and cater to you, he showed you pics twice. if they weremt good enough then take your business elsewhere, dont threaten someones means of living and reputation over something so childish.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

FreakyAcidTripper said:


> Bilbo,
> 
> i aint trying to change your mind on this, just trying to point some stuff out to you, that you may not have thought about, i am also not trying to side with anyone.
> 
> ...


It was like two weeks or more . I had asked for pics many times. He finally sent one but it wasnt the fish he was going to send me. If im going to spend $200 on fish then i dont want to see what they are going to look like , like Motoro ray was telling me what they will look like when there older . Or what the brother of the fish looks like . I would like to see the actuall fish . Patients had nothing to do with it. He was just not going to send it for some reason . He sure had time to upload them when he was called out on WW . When i dont have pics, i tell someone that i will have them at a certain time and that if they dont wont to buy then they can wait until i posts then when i have them. Again, it wasnt just about pics . Please read all of my posts .

At this point i am just defending my position . I have already said what i wanted to say.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> So all you've said is that your customer service level was below your expectations. That's not something you warn people about, it's something other people should be able to determine themselves when they order. If Jon had made some kind of misrepresentation that caused you to send money and then not get the treatment you wanted you would have something to bitch about, but you can't complain and start warning people about someone just because you don't like the way he does business. If I go to an online fish site and the website is an unnavigatable piece of sh*t, I don't order there. It's not in my position to go telling people not to go there, because that's the choice of the consumer. You were not misled in any way, you were not lied to, Jon did not misrepresent the fish he was selling, he did not charge you for something you did not get, you don't have anything to complain about.
> [snapback]850813[/snapback]​


If thats how you feel then thats your perogative. I on the other hand definately feel differently about it. And so do others .


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

ty. said:


> You are calling him out for not giving you better quality pics? Your being a total ass about the entire issue , you never lost anything out of the deal and in exchange your badmouthing him and his business. Youre trying to threaten another persons lively hood over your chicldish acts. I HAVE done business with Jon and there was NOTHING shady about him. it seems to me your just upset because you want a vendor to kiss your ass and cater to you, he showed you pics twice. if they weremt good enough then take your business elsewhere, dont threaten someones means of living and reputation over something so childish.
> [snapback]850814[/snapback]​


Please read my " entire" posts . If you then donnot agree then thats fine. I still have to do what i think is right.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

When someone complained about George (Shark Aquarium) being not customer friendly and his reply was that he didn't have the time to give a lenghty reply to each customer due to the fact that he's a busy man and has other buyers to deal with. They sell fish to make a living and I understand their concern.


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## ty (May 14, 2004)

2005, 05:27 PM]
Please read my " entire" posts . If you then donnot agree then thats fine. I still have to do what i think is right.








[snapback]850819[/snapback]​[/quote]

I did read your entire post. First thing i saw was mike asked you twice to bring it to a private forum and you didnt respond.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2005)

I see threads very similar to this one pop up from time to time in all of the vendor's topic areas.

One thing the customer needs to consider is that the person selling the fish isn't sitting home all day taking pretty pictures of individual fish. Most of these dealers are simultaneously running retail shops or have day-jobs apart from their fish business.

It's unreasonable to expect the seller to jump up and take high resolution pictures of specific fish the instant someone tells them to.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> I see threads very similar to this one pop up from time to time in all of the vendor's topic areas.
> 
> One thing the customer needs to consider is that the person selling the fish isn't sitting home all day taking pretty pictures of individual fish. Most of these dealers are simultaneously running retail shops or have day-jobs apart from their fish business.
> 
> ...


2 -2and a half weeks isnt instant . Especially through 12 or more emails. I am a breeder and soon to be seller , Lord Willing. You have to supply pics of " high dollar " fish over the internet . Theres just to much slander going on. Again , would quabid have as many fish sold as they do if there were no pics ?


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

I don't see why you guys can not see why bilbo posted this. He was simply warning the people here at pfury that rare does not pay much atention at all to his customers. Bilbo wanted a few pic, whats so hard about that? he tries to call him and the one time he does get ahold of jon, what does he do? he tells him that he will call back later. but does he? no. IMO that is just a bunch of f*cking bullshit. and I have heard numerous stories of jon having a shady business. but do many of them stay? f*ck no. why? because mr. rare doesnt want anybody to know about anything bad that has happened between him and a customer. so he deletes their posts. much like how he did on WW with bilbo's posts. for this reason I will never purchase anything from Jon Rare









you guys have a good day


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## -={Nexus}=- (Nov 23, 2004)

i'll buy my fish at Big Als where i can seeee them


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Zanshin , Ms. Nattereri , Lemmy , thanks for the support . There are alot of others out there who see it this way also . Alot. I guess if you delete people's posts then all you will have left is possitive feed back.








And i understand that alot of people dont want to come into the lime light and express the same concerns that i have expressed. But me , well...... it doesnt bother me. 
I just got another pm from a guy that actually had a very bad dealing with him . He just explained to to me his details . Some of it was how it started with me. I just didnt let it go that far and send my money. But this guy did. It doesnt help Jon's case any , let me just say that . And if the mods can read my pms here , then they will see it also . So go ahead . Just dont post the guys name cause if he wanted it known he would have posted it here . Matter of fact , if you read it , dont let it be known period becuase its actually kinda rude . 
Lemmy, i couldnt have said it better myself bro . Sometimes i just get to techincal instead of just saying it like you did . Thanks for the back up man.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

Lets get this straight. Anytime ordering anything online its pretty much a risk itself. Getting lost in the mail, fish recives ammoia burn, cloud eye and what not is part of the risk when ordering online. Biblo does have the rights to request a pic but you must also remember, vendors cant please everyone. So much fish comes in at the same amount goes out. One can't promise you the exact fish unless your buying it on the spot and the fish is worth the time to take a picture of.

Lastly, unless your buying a show fish of some sort then a picture is needed. If your buying a piranha, they usually all look the same more or less so requesting a picture just to see how one looks is fine but if the vendor cant supply you with a pic then a picture from the internet will do. Now if your talking about cichlids IE: flowerhorn and apistos and what not then a picture is definitly needed.

Buying fish from LFS is the best way to go but its usual online where you find the fish you really want hence the conflict. We are too used to looking at the fish and picking which one we want before purchasing. However, if vendors are willing to take more pictures of their fish i think many many emails will be satisfied.


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

Very well said eric.










I was going trough a few posts in the buy and sell forum and ran across this...

seems as if there are many other who arent happy about how Jon treats his customers


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

o snap its eric said:


> Lets get this straight. Anytime ordering anything online its pretty much a risk itself. Getting lost in the mail, fish recives ammoia burn, cloud eye and what not is part of the risk when ordering online. Biblo does have the rights to request a pic but you must also remember, vendors cant please everyone. So much fish comes in at the same amount goes out. One can't promise you the exact fish unless your buying it on the spot and the fish is worth the time to take a picture of.
> 
> Lastly, unless your buying a show fish of some sort then a picture is needed. If your buying a piranha, they usually all look the same more or less so requesting a picture just to see how one looks is fine but if the vendor cant supply you with a pic then a picture from the internet will do. Now if your talking about cichlids IE: flowerhorn and apistos and what not then a picture is definitly needed.
> 
> ...


A flower horn is very close to a kk parrot . You know why i wanted to see a pic of the actuall fish... ill tell you why . Because some parrots have good dome heads. Some dont . Some have arrow heads. Some have good wrapped tails, some have poor wrapped tails, And the list goes on and on. Im a breeder. I am working on bettering my strain of FH. So do i need pics to see that im just not getting an over grown blood parrot with a nice head ? You better believe it. People can say they want but the fact still remains that pics are needed for the expensive fish . You know what happens sometimes when people order without pics. Sometimes they are shown a pic of good quality and then sent something of bad quality. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME !!! Then when they get their fish and think " man what is this" they have to then stick with what they got . They then cannot prove that the guy or gal sent them the wrong fish .

Im not talking about $3 guppies or something like that . Im talking about a fish that is $50 . And you know what ,I had decided to order about 10 or so from him. I have that fact in one of my emails . That would have been $500. So pics ? Yeah, you better believe it buddy. I then had decided to just order 6 just so that i could cut my losses if he sent me crap.

And like i have said before , i had not yet ordered from him before . I didnt know him . So pics? yeah, i think so . 
But again , its not just the pics, its everything else as well .


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Again, I ask. Before this gets locked, Bilbo, would you like a private forum to work out your issues with Jon? Thats the best I can do.

The mere fact you are posting this on mutiple forums combined with the threats of doing just this to Jon means you are attempting to maliciously attack him and his business.

It also means your motivation for posting this is not as much for the good of your fellow hobbyists but to heal your bruised ego.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

lemmywinks said:


> Very well said eric.:nod:
> I was going trough a few posts in the buy and sell forum and ran across this...
> 
> seems as if there are many other who arent happy about how Jon treats his customers
> ...


check this thread peeps . Tells why theres no negative feed back. Thanks lemmy


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Bilbo said:


> check this thread peeps . Tells why theres no negative feed back. Thanks lemmy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you purposefully ignoring my proposed comprimise?


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Xenon said:


> Again, I ask. Before this gets locked, Bilbo, would you like a private forum to work out your issues with Jon? Thats the best I can do.
> 
> The mere fact you are posting this on mutiple forums combined with the threats of doing just this to Jon means you are attempting to maliciously attack him and his business.
> 
> ...


No bruised ego here man . You just dont get it do you .







Oh well . I would do it again if it was to do again . I posted on 3 sites because i wanted to warn people . Attack him ? Well, look at it how you want to. Im doing what i feel is right. You can either except it or not . So if you are wanting to lock the thread, then thats up to you . I have nothing to work out in a private thread with Jon. I wouldnt even take kk parrots from him if he gave them to me with free shipping. And thats the honest truth .







I want people to be aware of my dealings with him as well as others as lemmys link provided .


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Bilbo said:


> No bruised ego here man . * You just dont get it do you *.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually the other way around. Seems YOU dont get it. I am forced to get BOTH sides while you only care about yourself and your sh*t. I have to protect every member from getting flamed or attacked even Jon. Just because your ego was bruised because he didnt send you a photo doesnt give you the right to use this site to attempt to get your revenge by publicly slandering him.

Since I have to see and respect both sides I am proposing a solution to use this forum in a constructive manner to bring a close to the situation. If you cant respect my efforts on this then take your ass somewhere else.


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## HighOctane (Jan 2, 2003)

I have bought fish from Jon in the past and have had nothing but good business with him. Just my .02 cents


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

I submit . I will no longer pursue this here further on this site if thats the way you want it . But please dont bother with the private thread . I am not going to ever deal with him . 
If you dont want anyone else to get flamed then it would be in the best interest to lock the thread . After all , others are going to ask me questions here on this thread . And do i just say nothing at all ? So maybe it would be best to lock it. 
But i will submit to your request else i will get banned and i dont want that. Thanks Mike , Rashidi


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

With that ladies and gentlemen, we have concluded yet another thread here on Pfury.

_closed_


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Bilbo said:


> I submit . I will no longer pursue this here further on this site if thats the way you want it . But please dont bother with the private thread . I am not going to ever deal with him .
> If you dont want anyone else to get flamed then it would be in the best interest to lock the thread . After all , others are going to ask me questions here on this thread . And do i just say nothing at all ? So maybe it would be best to lock it.
> But i will submit to your request else i will get banned and i dont want that. Thanks Mike , Rashidi
> 
> ...


I dont mind you persuing it. However I requested a comprimise in handling it privately. I am not worried about people getting flamed per se.... I am more worried about members satisfying their own personal vendettas against sellers using this forum. Nobody knows what REALLY happened.... and to bash someones livelihood because he rubbed you the wrong way is just plain shitty.

And I never even insinuated you would get banned for this.... so why even bring that up?

Mike


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

The staff at Waterwolves have asked me to add into this thread that much like on this site, community sponsors on WW have complete control over their own forums. This includes the power to delete threads and posts. We have a similar setup here. They are buying that webspace and can thus do what they want with it. Therefore, WW Staff is not responsible for deleting things in their sponsors forums. The staff isnt doing it, the owner of that forum is, which is the sponsor.

-Mike (at the request of Homebrewed)


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