# Donald Rumsfeld - Flight 93 was Shot Down



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

I wanna hear ur opinions on this video...


----------



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

hmm...weird?


----------



## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

I think it is plausible that the government shot down that flight...

Rumsfeild is an ass bag!!

Always has been always will be!!


----------



## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

Bake at 98.6° said:


> I think it is plausible that the government shot down that flight...
> 
> Rumsfeild is an ass bag!!
> 
> Always has been always will be!!


I think its plausible too, just don't see why they would lie about it. Three buildings had been hit at that time and it was obvious other planes refusing to divert were going to do the same thing. I dont think there would have been a major problem if the government had said they shot down a plane.


----------



## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

I think it was just a slip of the tongue.

But as said before. No problem if they did shoot it down.


----------



## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

HAHAHA the american government is sooooo STUPID! LMAO


----------



## cueball (May 24, 2005)

true ,, dat....... aww man don't get me started...


----------



## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

LOL i always get a kick out of the americans lol the shame is that i dont even know who the prime minister of canada is


----------



## cueball (May 24, 2005)

ya .....ha... wait a sec..... i dont either....lol


----------



## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

bloody hell man, does this man have a brain??


----------



## cueball (May 24, 2005)

lol...its a joke... shocking aint it.... dont be so 2-D.....


----------



## cueball (May 24, 2005)

look at your sig... heaven wont have me and hell -->ARE<--afraid ill take over..ha ha nice English dip sh*t.. wouldn't it sound better if you put -->IS<--


----------



## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

Oh No You Didn't!


----------



## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Hm, I remember that flight 93 went down because the people on board put up a fight and crashed the plane.

It IS possible that it got shot down because most of the Air Farce was put into alert; Langley AFB was on the scramble alert from what my friend told me.


----------



## cueball (May 24, 2005)

ProdigalMarine said:


> Hm, I remember that flight 93 went down because the people on board put up a fight and crashed the plane.


wares the actual poof of that happening? I think i herd something about a wile back was there cell phone messages sent out as the plane was crashing?


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

of all the stupid ass 9/11 conspiracies, this is probably the most plausible one. As mentioned earlier, if 3 planes had already crashed into structures and one wouldn't answer they'd have no choice but to shoot it down. If they admitted to it all the hippies would freak the f*ck out.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

this is no more shocking then dog dropping the n bomb


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Boobah said:


> of all the stupid ass 9/11 conspiracies, this is probably the most plausible one. As mentioned earlier, if 3 planes had already crashed into structures and one wouldn't answer they'd have no choice but to shoot it down. If they admitted to it all the hippies would freak the f*ck out.


So the american Gov, technically killed ~40 of its own people...?

and then turned around and said it wasnt shot down?


----------



## face2006 (Feb 17, 2006)

CorGrav420 said:


> LOL i always get a kick out of the americans lol the shame is that i dont even know who the prime minister of canada is


true that bro..I thought it was Bret "The Hitman" Hart..lol...j/k







.... we don't live there...


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

of course 93 was shot down. and what better way to cover it with an inspirational story about how this was americas first strike at terrorism. it was after wtc, after the pentagon, we knew what was happening and we knew this plane just did a 180 and was en route to DC. you dont think we knew the casualties would be 10 fold at least if we didnt shoot it down. those people were doomed anyways. god bless them on that note.

im NOT a conspiracy theory guy...911 happened from pissed off muslims. not bush, not a conspiracy not some catalist to go to war. it was terrorism. but 93 i firmly believe was downed.

on a personal note i saw the con-trails from that jet over head that morning. actually saw the big horse shoe pattern from its turn. and me and my buddies at work saw military fighters severeal times before that day was over


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

cueball said:


> Hm, I remember that flight 93 went down because the people on board put up a fight and crashed the plane.


wares the actual poof of that happening? I think i herd something about a wile back was there cell phone messages sent out as the plane was crashing?
[/quote]

yeah, mysteriously cell phones worked on that special plane from outer space...i guess the planets were aligned because, cell phone signals are horizontal from tower to tower, and cant even be picked up at 8k ft. there have been countless times when people have disproven the cell phone theory by taking an airplane ride and trying to ping a tower...it doesnt happen, it can't happen...it raises a lot of questions about the actual cell phone recordings that they have from the passengers...? FACT is that cell phones DONT work in the air unless they're satelite based. period.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

interesting point. but what about all the testimony with wifes saying their husband called up and told her i love you etc etc...i mean was that faked? what? doesnt make sense cause if my wife died and it wasnt quite right what happened, or whatever, id be blowin a whistle over it.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

dude, this is the american government...anything is possible. manipulating voices, etc...maybe they paid him off, said we'll give you a new life in some far away country for a couple million dollars or some sh*t...you never know.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> dude, this is the american government...anything is possible. manipulating voices, etc...maybe they paid him off, said we'll give you a new life in some far away country for a couple million dollars or some sh*t...you never know.


please, dont be that guy who yells ITS THE GOVERNMENT!!!! BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED!! LOOK AT ME!!! I NEED ATTENTION 24/7 RAAHHHH!!! RAHHHH!!

and the pats cheat

btw im not serious lol...im just playin with ya


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

your cell phone theroy is bs, maybe some crappy sprint or nextell service that cannot connect a cal from your living room isnt working on a plane but you can get service on a plane and do you think the terrorist were flying at 30k feet?

i dont think there is much disputing that 1000 of calls were made from planes that day did the plane get shot ? maybe my only reason to doubt it that there would have been more of a spread out debris field then the crater that was left from a nose dive unless say they shot off the tail and it fell in one piece and was recovered by law enforcement..


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

dont be another guy who says "oh my government would never do that" because in reality, the government doesnt give a sh*t about you, its all about money and personal agendas. believe what you believe, all im saying is i think a higher percentage of american people should be questioning this government.



nismo driver said:


> your cell phone theroy is bs, maybe some crappy sprint or nextell service that cannot connect a cal from your living room isnt working on a plane but you can get service on a plane and do you think the terrorist were flying at 30k feet?
> 
> i dont think there is much disputing that 1000 of calls were made from planes that day did the plane get shot ? maybe my only reason to doubt it that there would have been more of a spread out debris field then the crater that was left from a nose dive unless say they shot off the tail and it fell in one piece and was recovered by law enforcement..


no, you're incorrect, my brother programmed for verizon, not only that, there was a damn documentary on it, where they took a cessna over the exact same spot where flight 93 crashed, and they were flying several thousand feet with NO signal. none...i've tried to get a signal on an airplane too, last year i went to vegas, NO A SINGLE SIGNAL. i guess it was just magic.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> no, you're incorrect, my brother programmed for verizon, not only that, there was a damn documentary on it, where they took a cessna over the exact same spot where flight 93 crashed, and they were flying several thousand feet with NO signal. none...i've tried to get a signal on an airplane too, last year i went to vegas, NO A SINGLE SIGNAL. i guess it was just magic.


did that cesna have a phone from every carrier? 
dude you theory is bs dont get angry just accept the fact you suck and go play with your rockets


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

^^ ROFL wth


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

> A. K. Dewdney
> 
> Acknowledgment: I wish to thank Brad Mayeaux for assistance in preparing this article
> 
> ...


http://physics911.net/cellphoneflight93

please read it...unless you want to just continue being a robot that gets pounded in the ass by the govt.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

wow now there is a reliable source for an unbiased discussion, why not just get it from the loose change web site complete with references from 16 year old aircraft engineers taht hate mommy and daddy..


----------



## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

W/E i used a cell on a plane last year when i flew to toronto and back.... You sir, are a douchewrong.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> wow now there is a reliable source for an unbiased discussion, why not just get it from the loose change web site complete with references from 16 year old aircraft engineers taht hate mommy and daddy..


yeah, considering its the website of the investigatory panel on 9/11...publically funded, i'd say its fairly reliable...dip sh*t.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

> An aircraft, having a metal skin and fuselage, acts like a Faraday cage, tending to block or attenuate electromagnetic radiation.


wtf does this jackass think planes are made out of iron?

you can make a call from inside of an industrial freezer and thats prectially the same amount of aluminum and insualtion as a plane..


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

yeah, now put that freezer at 30k ft...


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> yeah, now put that freezer at 30k ft...


where does it say these half ass terrorist pilots were flying by faa regulations at the planned flight elevation?


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> yeah, now put that freezer at 30k ft...


where does it say these half ass terrorist pilots were flying by faa regulations at the planned flight elevation?
[/quote]

i remember how the plane crashed?? at some point between 30k ft and 0 ft they were probably within cell phone range. I doubt the plane took a direct dive straight down from 30k feet. They could have easily gotten service at the lower altitudes.

It is so convenient if you think about it: that plane lands right in the middle of a deserted field. If they shot it down I doubt they'd use something so powerful to just blow it to pieces in mid air, which would explain the crash debris.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

agreed, i mean i assume if a missle engagment happened while mid flight over PA anywhere, there would be whitnesses. who wasnt looking up in the sky that day?? so its disputable. im open to the idea that the passengers took the plane down, but we know that fighters were tailing that aircraft, so even if that was the case you wonder if they didnt engage when the plane started a nose dive. 
its a mystery.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> yeah, now put that freezer at 30k ft...


where does it say these half ass terrorist pilots were flying by faa regulations at the planned flight elevation?
[/quote]

the first phone call was recieved when the plane was pinged by the FAA at a cruising altitude in the 30k ft range...read the article...13 phone calls in all, and most were above 8k ft. one of them was at cruising altitude telling of a sudden turn in the airplanes direction. again, these are cellphones being used, not airphones, and there were a bunch of different providers, not just verizon. every transcript from the flight has "made for TV" written all over it. "im boiling water to throw on the terrorists" "should we take over the plane" blah blah blah...makes for a good movie dontcha think? everyone loves a plane full of hero's. (not to be insensitive, it just smells fishy).


----------



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Good discussion guys. Just a reminder to keep it on track and avoid personal attacks...


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> yeah, now put that freezer at 30k ft...


where does it say these half ass terrorist pilots were flying by faa regulations at the planned flight elevation?
[/quote]

the first phone call was recieved when the plane was pinged by the FAA at a cruising altitude in the 30k ft range...read the article...13 phone calls in all, and most were above 8k ft. one of them was at cruising altitude telling of a sudden turn in the airplanes direction. again, these are cellphones being used, not airphones, and there were a bunch of different providers, not just verizon. every transcript from the flight has "made for TV" written all over it. "im boiling water to throw on the terrorists" "should we take over the plane" blah blah blah...makes for a good movie dontcha think? everyone loves a plane full of hero's. (not to be insensitive, it just smells fishy).
[/quote]

dude you watch too much tv

would you have perferd if they were boiling water for hot choclate?

its easy to look back on a situation and speculate and make up stories that can fit around the things that happened but the fact is the planes were highjacked and for what ever reason these terrorist failed at achieving their objective, now dont you think if this was a govt conspirocy and the plane were flow by govt operatives then there would be no reason to shoot it down? wouldnt the fact that this plane didnt hit its target disprove all of these other nonsense theories about the other planes? did the govt pay these families to be actors when there loved ones died?


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> yeah, now put that freezer at 30k ft...


where does it say these half ass terrorist pilots were flying by faa regulations at the planned flight elevation?
[/quote]

the first phone call was recieved when the plane was pinged by the FAA at a cruising altitude in the 30k ft range...read the article...13 phone calls in all, and most were above 8k ft. one of them was at cruising altitude telling of a sudden turn in the airplanes direction. again, these are cellphones being used, not airphones, and there were a bunch of different providers, not just verizon. every transcript from the flight has "made for TV" written all over it. "im boiling water to throw on the terrorists" "should we take over the plane" blah blah blah...makes for a good movie dontcha think? everyone loves a plane full of hero's. (not to be insensitive, it just smells fishy).
[/quote]

dude you watch too much tv

would you have perferd if they were boiling water for hot choclate?
[/quote]

actually this kind of sh*t isnt on TV...its not about the boiling water, its about the phone call...the fact that they were "preparing" to take over the plane is kind of shady to me...as if a bunch of terrorists would #1 let people make phone calls in the first place, and #2 allow people to roam about, getting things to take the plane down, boiling water...etc...and the fact remains, cell phones dont work on airplanes at cruising altitude, they just dont. i went to vegas last year and my phone from start to end didnt work as soon as we took off...not only that, none of my relatives phones worked except ONE which was a GPS phone which i dont think was around in 01. and it still couldnt call out...

no, these people saved the day, the crashed the plane before it hit the whitehouse (which was actually revealed BEFORE the plane crashed...hmmmm). the point of 9/11 was to raise patriotism and get a country all hyped up for war, the main objective was to go to iraq...thats it, period.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

"actually this kind of sh*t isnt on TV..."

are you kidding me? there are dozens of movies about plane highjackings and terrrist plots.. maybe if people were allowed to bring snake with them this wouldnt have happened???

the point of 9/11 was for poeple to be afraid and to make stupid decisions driven by fear so the US would spend all its money chasing after cockraochs until it destablises our economy, i would say its working..

i also kind of think you missed my other point, your supoprting these ideas that the other planes that hit there targets were not flown by terrorist, if that is the case then why would you be supporing that this one was, and if it wasnt then why would it have been shot down?

all im saying is that these things like loose change are full of holes and contridictions just like the truth of what happened, it doesnt make you cool or open minded to support assanine ideas jsut so you can claim to be an independant thinker just makes you look like an ass


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

If the government indeed set up a controlled explosion to blow up WTC, I guarantee you the the hijackers would all have been Iraquis. Why on earth would Bush frame bin Laden when it's obvious he doesn't care about bin Laden and probably never wanted to even go to war with Afghanistan. If Bush and Cheney planned 9/11 they would have framed Saddam from day one - would that not be easier than making up stories about WMDs ?


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

i cannot express enough how sick i am of hearing bush, 9/11 and planned in the same sentence.


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

this is the loose change bs that always screws up these threads and has nothing to do with this one. that crap is totally illogical, planes were hijacked and crashed into TWC, pentagon, and attempted white house. What we're debating here is whether the one that crashed in a field in pennsylvania was shot down by the air force. That is the ONLY conspiracy theory that seems logical because it's what they should have done if they had an idea what was about to happen


----------



## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Boobah said:


> So the american Gov, technically killed ~40 of its own people...?
> 
> and then turned around and said it wasnt shot down?


Point taken..


----------



## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

You conspiracy people are funny, like when 2 male dorgs are humping.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> You conspiracy people are funny, like when 2 male dorgs are humping.


whats a dorg?


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> You conspiracy people are funny, like when 2 male dorgs are humping.


whats a dorg?
[/quote]

What, you don't know what a dorg is ?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dorg


----------



## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

As somebody who has fought in both theaters of action resulting from this 9/11 "plot" I'm so f*cking sick of listening to all you lunatic hippies blab on an on about a conspiracy.

As for the main subject of this thread. So what if they shot it down? I think it makes sense to take innocent lives if it's going to save many many many more.

Some of you are turds.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

the way he said it(lets assume it wasn't a slip), the connotation is that the terrorists shot down the plane, not Americans.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

TheWayThingsR said:


> As somebody who has fought in both theaters of action resulting from this 9/11 "plot" I'm so f*cking sick of listening to all you lunatic hippies blab on an on about a conspiracy.
> 
> As for the main subject of this thread. So what if they shot it down? I think it makes sense to take innocent lives if it's going to save many many many more.
> 
> Some of you are turds.


well said...minus the turds part. i happen to like these people


----------



## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

Regardless of everyones arguments, I dont care if the plane was rescued by heroes, shot down, or even hijacked. If this isnt a conspiracy, where the f*ck are the bodies? Thats all I want to know. There is no way that the bodies couldve got vaporized, its physically impossible by a plane accident. How can you get body parts at WTC after a plane hit and a entire building falls but not a single part form a plane crash. Any other plane crash has bodies, where is flight 93's bodies?


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

actually there were virtually no body parts at the wtc. there were cases of burried people who happened to be in the exact right place so they werent literally pulverized, and as far as plane crashes, violent enough, yes, a boy can literally dissapear in the wreckage. there are many cases where bits and pieces were only found. im not saying your point isnt valid, im just sa...no wait, i am saying that. my bad dude


----------



## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

8o8P said:


> Regardless of everyones arguments, I dont care if the plane was rescued by heroes, shot down, or even hijacked. If this isnt a conspiracy, where the f*ck are the bodies? Thats all I want to know. There is no way that the bodies couldve got vaporized, its physically impossible by a plane accident. How can you get body parts at WTC after a plane hit and a entire building falls but not a single part form a plane crash. Any other plane crash has bodies, where is flight 93's bodies?


http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/2001...scenenat5p5.asp


----------



## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> actually there were virtually no body parts at the wtc. there were cases of burried people who happened to be in the exact right place so they werent literally pulverized, and as far as plane crashes, violent enough, yes, a boy can literally dissapear in the wreckage. there are many cases where bits and pieces were only found. im not saying your point isnt valid, im just sa...no wait, i am saying that. my bad dude


I can see maybe one or two, hell even ten people from a whole flight getting plastered into nothing, but a whole plane? You name me one plane crash onto land that has no bodies. hhhmmm... well? yeah thats what Im saying...


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

value jet....flight 93, twa


----------



## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

fake.


----------



## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

ChilDawg said:


> Regardless of everyones arguments, I dont care if the plane was rescued by heroes, shot down, or even hijacked. If this isnt a conspiracy, where the f*ck are the bodies? Thats all I want to know. There is no way that the bodies couldve got vaporized, its physically impossible by a plane accident. How can you get body parts at WTC after a plane hit and a entire building falls but not a single part form a plane crash. Any other plane crash has bodies, where is flight 93's bodies?


http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/2001...scenenat5p5.asp
[/quote]

I guess if you believe its true. How convenient it is to not release information/identify the bodies. Yes its for privacy, but I wanna know who the "Heroes" where in flight 93. sh*t they release WTC bodies and the Iraq war bodies, but a plane "full of heroes" is too touchy to release this information? If anything they should be getting some type of medal. Even if its true, wheres the rest of them? Thats only 25% of the people on board.

Plus, if you search Youtube, there is CNN video news and evidence of no bodies at the scene. Even the medical examiner on scene was quoted of saying there are no bodies. You cant say they found them during the search and rescue as they also showed the search party and the plane parts hauled away, but no bodies.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

TheWayThingsR said:


> As somebody who has fought in both theaters of action resulting from this 9/11 "plot" I'm so f*cking sick of listening to all you lunatic hippies blab on an on about a conspiracy.
> 
> As for the main subject of this thread. So what if they shot it down? I think it makes sense to take innocent lives if it's going to save many many many more.
> 
> Some of you are turds.


so dont listen to it...? nobody's forcing you to think outside the box...? just do what you're told...isnt that what you're trained to do?


----------



## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

r1dermon said:


> so dont listen to it...? nobody's forcing you to think outside the box...? *just do what you're told...isnt that what you're trained to do?*


You just insulted every serviceman that's on this sight and that you've ever known or met. You might be a fan of the patriots, but a patriot you are not. Quit flaunting your e-penis scumbag.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

oh...my bad, you can dish it out but you can't take it? i know servicemen, im related to servicemen, i've known servicemen who have died for this country in this stupid shitty dumbass conflict...and with that i will stop, because if i go any further i will get banned. i didnt insult any servicemen other than yourself, who insulted anyone who is not of the opinion that you take. be sick of it...im sick of listening to certain servicemen who think they can insult people just because they served. i know plenty of servicemen, army, marines, navy...i'll probably see one or two of them tomorrow, i've had discussions with them about what i think went on, and they take my opinion as if it matters, they dont brush it off and insult me like you...douche bag.

sorry, you wont have to read my lunatic hippy opinion anymore, i'll share it with more educated and reserved people who can handle themselves with class. have fun









also, dont say i insulted every serviceman...blah blah blah...that's more bullshit talk. i insulted you, purposely, because i think you're a fool...that's it...anyone else whom i may have insulted secondarily, im sorry...


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> As somebody who has fought in both theaters of action resulting from this 9/11 "plot" I'm so f*cking sick of listening to all you lunatic hippies blab on an on about a conspiracy.
> 
> As for the main subject of this thread. So what if they shot it down? I think it makes sense to take innocent lives if it's going to save many many many more.
> 
> Some of you are turds.


so dont listen to it...? nobody's forcing you to think outside the box...? just do what you're told...isnt that what you're trained to do?
[/quote]

hahah ive seen that video too, where they were being told what questions to ask and how they will be answered by the president...lol....so much for "live" chats.


----------



## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)




----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

TheWayThingsR said:


> so dont listen to it...? nobody's forcing you to think outside the box...? *just do what you're told...isnt that what you're trained to do?*


You just insulted every serviceman that's on this sight and that you've ever known or met. You might be a fan of the patriots, but a patriot you are not. Quit flaunting your e-penis scumbag.
[/quote]

u will probably say the same about me with the comment i placed above, i said to u before a while back that i was thankful for ur service in the army and thats very honerable.

But ur not getting the "BIGGER" picture here. Im not trying to insult U, or any one in service.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> oh...my bad, you can dish it out but you can't take it? i know servicemen, im related to servicemen, i've known servicemen who have died for this country in this stupid shitty dumbass conflict...and with that i will stop, because if i go any further i will get banned. i didnt insult any servicemen other than yourself, who insulted anyone who is not of the opinion that you take. be sick of it...im sick of listening to certain servicemen who think they can insult people just because they served. i know plenty of servicemen, army, marines, navy...i'll probably see one or two of them tomorrow, i've had discussions with them about what i think went on, and they take my opinion as if it matters, they dont brush it off and insult me like you...douche bag.
> 
> sorry, you wont have to read my lunatic hippy opinion anymore, i'll share it with more educated and reserved people who can handle themselves with class. have fun
> 
> ...


i served in the marine corps r1dermon
and your definately my buddy, so dont sweat it my man. to each his own opinion. heres to you partner


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> oh...my bad, you can dish it out but you can't take it? i know servicemen, im related to servicemen, i've known servicemen who have died for this country in this stupid shitty dumbass conflict...and with that i will stop, because if i go any further i will get banned. i didnt insult any servicemen other than yourself, who insulted anyone who is not of the opinion that you take. be sick of it...im sick of listening to certain servicemen who think they can insult people just because they served. i know plenty of servicemen, army, marines, navy...i'll probably see one or two of them tomorrow, i've had discussions with them about what i think went on, and they take my opinion as if it matters, they dont brush it off and insult me like you...douche bag.
> 
> sorry, you wont have to read my lunatic hippy opinion anymore, i'll share it with more educated and reserved people who can handle themselves with class. have fun
> 
> ...


i served in the marine corps r1dermon
and your definately my buddy, so dont sweat it my man. to each his own opinion. heres to you partner








[/quote]

good, and thank you, seriously...im not a douche bag who hates people in the army...i almost joined the marines out of highschool, but my life took a different direction...it's not like i "pussed out" its just that i didnt "need" that kind of experience, it wouldnt be fruitful to my life as i saw it back then. my cousin served in the army, in iraq for a year and a half, and 2 years in south korea. he doesnt walk around like he's the man, he knows what he did, and anyone who knows him knows what he did, and everyone is goddamn proud of what he did. but he's not the type that walks down the street with his fatigues on yelling hoorah at everyone who walks by. he's humble about it. that's a LOT more respectable than someone who comes back and flaunts his sh*t like he's owed something.

once again, thanks for your service, it's rediculous what you guys are put through in iraq, wether you share my opinion or you think im crazy, that's my take on the situation, let me know if you make it to boston, i'll buy you a beer all day.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

haha you got it man, we'll drink em down one day. actually theres an old friend of mine out there so i might actually be around the fall river area some time. maybe ill show up at your house and watch you sleep, cool?

lol alright man...and i understand your statements dude. you dont need to back your words up, your respectable man. service men and women are worthy of honor, but many people are. personal opinion is just that. its no cheap shot cause its not what someone else thinks...believe me r1, your making sense.

todays been a semi heated day on here right? i havent seen so many snippy comments on here in awhile. whats the deal ya think?


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

probably because its hump day, and nobody's humping....

fall river, i have a cousin down near there...its about an hour from my house but i can swing it...hit me up if you make it...


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)




----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

im on ThewaythingsR's side, the government didnt plan 9/11, there were no explosives in the WTC, they might have shot down the plane in PA, but 40 lives lost is better then 100. Anyone who insults this country by saying it was a setup should leave and go to Canada or something. There will be "holes" in every major issue, and its your choice whether or not to believe the holes, i do my best to respect others opinions, but to believe our government did this to its own people is about as patriotic as driving Hondas to a flag burning session in Iraq..


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

i do find the cell phone thing pretty interesting, and as for there being no bodies...if a plane full of jet fuel hits the ground going even half speed, everything will be destroyed, did they even recover the black box? they also cant show dead american bodies on TV there are huge penalties so im sure anything that remained was taken before the media arrived


----------



## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

bigredjeep said:


> i do find the cell phone thing pretty interesting, and as for there being no bodies...*if a plane full of jet fuel hits the ground going even half speed, everything will be destroyed,* did they even recover the black box? * they also cant show dead american bodies on TV* there are huge penalties so im sure anything that remained was taken before the media arrived


Oh really, Is that why majority of other crashed airplanes have bodies and body parts? Also, jet fuel doesnt all explode on impact like a bomb. It actually spills out and burns. Jet fuel only burns at barely 500 degrees f and to burn a body to nothing you need anywhere near 1400-1800 degrees f.

Im not saying look for dead bodies on TV. But CNN was on the spot, live, the day it happened and the medical examiner there THAT DAY said there are no bodies, "...not even a drop of blood..." to quote him.


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

well how many planes have crashed going full throttle straight down?...you right, jet fuel doesnt do explode like a bomb, but any spark, electrical short etc will ignite it (a crashing plane will have plenty) i would like to see where u get your info on jet fuel burning at 500d, providing the right oxygen level jet fuel can reach temps of 1200...


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

your right about the fuel not burning, its basically a high grade diesel. however once the fuel ignited it would cause an inferno in the center of the flame, just like a campfire. as the plane burned the center of the flame,where the plane is would just roast


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

bigredjeep said:


> im on ThewaythingsR's side, the government didnt plan 9/11, there were no explosives in the WTC, they might have shot down the plane in PA, but 40 lives lost is better then 100. Anyone who insults this country by saying it was a setup should leave and go to Canada or something. There will be "holes" in every major issue, and its your choice whether or not to believe the holes, i do my best to respect others opinions, *but to believe our government did this to its own people is about as patriotic as driving Hondas to a flag burning session in Iraq..*


i'd say it's more unpatriotic to stand by while the country is in danger of being overrun by the government. unpatriotic is supporting an administration that disregards the constitution in an attempt to effectually save ourselves "from" ourselves. it's more unpatriotic to let a bunch of businessmen (thats what politicians are) run your country into the ground for their own political, and subsequently financial gain. or would you say it's just best to follow their lead? be the sheep to the herd? take what they give you and dont ask why? "hey, we're gonna send a few hundred thousand people over-seas to find some WMD that we "think" are there, even though this has nothing to do with 9/11, which is the whole reason you guys are all so patriotic lately, but anywho, a few thousand will die, and the country will remain divided, but dont forget about the huge housing collapse and the 100 billion dollar bail out to the banks, and after all that, you know we would've violated the constitution like a sexual predator at a girlscouts meeting. oh well, that's all folks, keep waiving that flag and dont question us...unless you're an evildoer and you're unpatriotic. arg...all you unpatriotic nonpatriots who arent patriotic...why dont you move to canada you evildoer, you doer of evil...arg.../waves flag)


----------



## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

I wish I could have gotten involved in this debate but I'm worried about living a little longer.


----------



## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

r1dermon said:


> im on ThewaythingsR's side, the government didnt plan 9/11, there were no explosives in the WTC, they might have shot down the plane in PA, but 40 lives lost is better then 100. Anyone who insults this country by saying it was a setup should leave and go to Canada or something. There will be "holes" in every major issue, and its your choice whether or not to believe the holes, i do my best to respect others opinions, *but to believe our government did this to its own people is about as patriotic as driving Hondas to a flag burning session in Iraq..*


i'd say it's more unpatriotic to stand by while the country is in danger of being overrun by the government. unpatriotic is supporting an administration that disregards the constitution in an attempt to effectually save ourselves "from" ourselves. it's more unpatriotic to let a bunch of businessmen (thats what politicians are) run your country into the ground for their own political, and subsequently financial gain. or would you say it's just best to follow their lead? be the sheep to the herd? take what they give you and dont ask why? "hey, we're gonna send a few hundred thousand people over-seas to find some WMD that we "think" are there, even though this has nothing to do with 9/11, which is the whole reason you guys are all so patriotic lately, but anywho, a few thousand will die, and the country will remain divided, but dont forget about the huge housing collapse and the 100 billion dollar bail out to the banks, and after all that, you know we would've violated the constitution like a sexual predator at a girlscouts meeting. oh well, that's all folks, keep waiving that flag and dont question us...unless you're an evildoer and you're unpatriotic. arg...all you unpatriotic nonpatriots who arent patriotic...why dont you move to canada you evildoer, you doer of evil...arg.../waves flag)
[/quote]

Exactly...

All these brainwashed people think that following the governments plan set out for us is Patriotic. Yeah it sounds patriotic, the government makes it sound and presents it that way. All the while we are losing the very rights that we think were fighting for.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

8o8P said:


> i do find the cell phone thing pretty interesting, and as for there being no bodies...*if a plane full of jet fuel hits the ground going even half speed, everything will be destroyed,* did they even recover the black box? * they also cant show dead american bodies on TV* there are huge penalties so im sure anything that remained was taken before the media arrived


Oh really, Is that why majority of other crashed airplanes have bodies and body parts? Also, jet fuel doesnt all explode on impact like a bomb. It actually spills out and burns. Jet fuel only burns at barely 500 degrees f and to burn a body to nothing you need anywhere near 1400-1800 degrees f.

Im not saying look for dead bodies on TV. But CNN was on the spot, live, the day it happened and the medical examiner there THAT DAY said there are no bodies, "...not even a drop of blood..." to quote him.
[/quote]

the majority of plane crashes happen during take off or landing
not going 587 mph into a building with a near full load of fuel. believe me, the human body can and does vanish in a strong enough impact


----------



## cueball (May 24, 2005)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> dude, this is the american government...anything is possible. manipulating voices, etc...maybe they paid him off, said we'll give you a new life in some far away country for a couple million dollars or some sh*t...you never know.


please, dont be that guy who yells ITS THE GOVERNMENT!!!! BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED!! LOOK AT ME!!! I NEED ATTENTION 24/7 RAAHHHH!!! RAHHHH!!

and the pats cheat

btw im not serious lol...im just playin with ya
[/quote]


----------



## face2006 (Feb 17, 2006)

r1dermon said:


> As somebody who has fought in both theaters of action resulting from this 9/11 "plot" I'm so f*cking sick of listening to all you lunatic hippies blab on an on about a conspiracy.
> 
> As for the main subject of this thread. So what if they shot it down? I think it makes sense to take innocent lives if it's going to save many many many more.
> 
> Some of you are turds.


so dont listen to it...? nobody's forcing you to think outside the box...? just do what you're told...isnt that what you're trained to do?
[/quote]

wooooooooooooooo...







no direspect here, served in 9/11, Afgan and other little stints....I think way outside box especially since I seen it first hand and how sh*t was contracted out to others...and I will stop there before I get introuble..... lets just say, if we had a smarter President, with a smarter staff, people would have not been in Iraq right now and Binladin would have been a far distant memory, HUNG...I'll leave it at that


----------



## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> i do find the cell phone thing pretty interesting, and as for there being no bodies...*if a plane full of jet fuel hits the ground going even half speed, everything will be destroyed,* did they even recover the black box? * they also cant show dead american bodies on TV* there are huge penalties so im sure anything that remained was taken before the media arrived


Oh really, Is that why majority of other crashed airplanes have bodies and body parts? Also, jet fuel doesnt all explode on impact like a bomb. It actually spills out and burns. Jet fuel only burns at barely 500 degrees f and to burn a body to nothing you need anywhere near 1400-1800 degrees f.

Im not saying look for dead bodies on TV. But CNN was on the spot, live, the day it happened and the medical examiner there THAT DAY said there are no bodies, "...not even a drop of blood..." to quote him.
[/quote]

the majority of plane crashes happen during take off or landing
not going 587 mph into a building with a near full load of fuel. believe me, the human body can and does vanish in a strong enough impact
[/quote]

Arent we talking about flight 93? It crashed into a hillside, and there have been other crashes into hillsides that didnt have bodies obliterated to nothing. They said out of 7700 calculated lbs of "human" on board, they were capable of finding 600 lbs, roughly 8% of the total mass scattered over miles. This is not a typical plane crash, it was blown up to have body pieces that scattered and that little remains.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

dude its beyond me. here. your right.
there, concluded...


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

8o8P said:


> Arent we talking about flight 93? It crashed into a hillside, and there have been other crashes into hillsides that didnt have bodies obliterated to nothing. They said out of 7700 calculated lbs of "human" on board, they were capable of finding 600 lbs, roughly 8% of the total mass scattered over miles. This is not a typical plane crash, it was blown up to have body pieces that scattered and that little remains.


it didnt crash into a hill side it was a field. and it didnt just crash like most typical crashs were teh pilots are trying to minimize the impact it was flown full speed into the ground.. were not talking badies falling at terminal velocity this was at an extremly accellerated rate..

rider here is the info about the cell phone calls you asshat

Only two phone calls, one by Edward Felt and one by flight attendant CeeCee Lyles, came from cell phones - both at 9:58 a.m, shortly before the plane crashed.[14] At this point, the aircraft was ~5,000 feet above sea level[15] The field near Shanksville where United Airlines Flight 93 crashed is at 2,350 feet above sea level,[16] and many Appalachian mountain ridges exceed 3,000 feet above sea level in Somerset and Westmoreland County.[17] Both phone calls only lasted 1-2 minutes, and then were dropped.[14] That coincides with a sudden ascent up to ~10,000 feet that the aircraft made before it then plummeted to the ground and crashed.[15][14]

additional info

The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were recovered on the afternoon of September 13, buried 25 feet (8 m) deep at the impact site, but only transcripts have been released to the public.

that is a device designed to survive the most extreme impacts 25 feet deep! the force that propelled taht to that depth could have easily have oblitereted the bodies of teh passengers..

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/Flight%20_Path_%20Study_UA93.pdf


----------



## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

ProdigalMarine said:


> Hm, I remember that flight 93 went down because the people on board put up a fight and crashed the plane.
> 
> It IS possible that it got shot down because most of the Air Farce was put into alert; Langley AFB was on the scramble alert from what my friend told me.


Just think about this, you got 2 planes in buildings in New York, you got a plane in the Pentagon. The Air Force would have just scrambled and doing "football fields" around New York and the DC. You have all the other planes over the contUS either on the ground or heading in. You have one plane out there heading into DC flying low and not responding to radio call.

The blew him out of the sky and then the propaganda machine went on full tilt, "The Brave Americans Saved DC, by bringing down the plane on it own" I do not think so.

There is a pilot out there, most likely in the reserves, that knows he brought down that jet.


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

armac said:


> Hm, I remember that flight 93 went down because the people on board put up a fight and crashed the plane.
> 
> It IS possible that it got shot down because most of the Air Farce was put into alert; Langley AFB was on the scramble alert from what my friend told me.


Just think about this, you got 2 planes in buildings in New York, you got a plane in the Pentagon. The Air Force would have just scrambled and doing "football fields" around New York and the DC. You have all the other planes over the contUS either on the ground or heading in. You have one plane out there heading into DC flying low and not responding to radio call.

The blew him out of the sky and then the propaganda machine went on full tilt, "The Brave Americans Saved DC, by bringing down the plane on it own" I do not think so.

There is a pilot out there, most likely in the reserves, that knows he brought down that jet.
[/quote]

Even though there'd be a total media backlash, ironically everyone i know would feel nothing but sympathy for him. you know how hard it must be to carry that burden?


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

^^ definately. that would be no joke. who knows, we might here later in life years from now what really happened.

i mean people get highjacked they assume theyre not going to be used as a big explosive. in my eyes, if they were able to take the plane in no time with box cutters, why would the same people who handed control over suddenly take it back in a self sacrafice act? going from frozen stiff to god like brave?


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

yea, like 20 years from now or some sh*t, the "REAL" news will be leaking out after people start to retire and sh*t.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

well after enough time goes by people wont be in such an uproar. the 9-11 generation will be a little older, little more humble. the memories will be more distant. i mean hell, look around already, how many american flags do you see waving from cars and front porches anymore? the whole patriotic united we stand thing...dead. and yeah i know, its the war in iraq, its blah blah blah. whatever, its the fact that we do indeed forget. remember how small the world was that day. how human you felt for once in your life? people change...and quick. and history does not bare the same emotional connection as the present. who even really celebrates the 4th of july for what it is, and not actual fireworks day? or christmas for anything but presents

what am i talking about


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

o beleive me, i celebrate fourth of July...i also got a american flag across my rollcage


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

bigredjeep said:


> o beleive me, i celebrate fourth of July...i also got a american flag across my rollcage


^^^ now THATS an american


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> well after enough time goes by people wont be in such an uproar. the 9-11 generation will be a little older, little more humble. the memories will be more distant. i mean hell, look around already, how many american flags do you see waving from cars and front porches anymore? the whole patriotic united we stand thing...dead. and yeah i know, its the war in iraq, its blah blah blah. whatever, its the fact that we do indeed forget. remember how small the world was that day. how human you felt for once in your life? people change...and quick. and history does not bare the same emotional connection as the present. who even really celebrates the 4th of july for what it is, and not actual fireworks day? or christmas for anything but presents
> 
> what am i talking about


i used to rock the flag, but the colors faded =\, gotta get a new flag.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

well i must say you two are restoring my faith in what i said above. i know my city has gone back to pre 911 patriotism. i myself have not. theres a lot of consiracy theory people and few educated people. this city is very liberal and very undereducated (and i dont mean college, im talking about library goers).


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

wow thats a crappy situation, luckily for me in my neck of the woods, NewHampshire, there arent alot of conspiracy people, but alot of 9/11 patriotism has been lost..there definitely aren't as many American flags being flown. I wish that wasn't the case, as soon as i turned 16 i always had a flag on my truck, then when i got my Jeep i put on between my rollcage, that way every one can see. I wish the level of patriotism has stayed the same since 9/11


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

well if you look at the situtaion after 9/11 everyone was pissed off and united that we were attacked but still strong, now most people are more pised off at the govt for there post 9/11 performance then anything and the country is not quite the symbol for strengthy and freedom when we have a war thats created alot of negativity around us and slipping economy. i personally do not feel the desire to be patriotic about the what the current US is representing, if you take a good look at most of the major issues in the country we re failing to do anything about all of them.

security has not improved.

the war has become the mess that no one wanted to belive it would be become (im not saying its a failure its just not the daydream everyone had hoped for) 
if anything we are less free now then we were re 9/11

the economy has not actualyl improved despite what some would like you to belive, all of the ploys for econimic stimulation have played out and the effects of flawed manipulation are becoming more and more obvious with the situtation in the home and banking world.

education and heath care are no better then they were 6 years ago (probably worse with the widening gap ofincome and slipping economy)

the dollar is at its weakest in decades (part of the economy and ludacris national debt)

crime in many major cities has been increasing.

ect ect ect..

so what is there to pe proud of? a nation that is on a down ward spiral?

im not all doom and gloom but as long as teh major corporations continue to move all the midddle andlowerclass jobs over seas to drive down costs and increase there profit this nation is going to suffer. with out better education this country does not have a strong future.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

with increasing youth population of appithetic emo *******, bleeding heart liberals and celebrity wannabies who just want to get rich at what ever means necessary theres not alot of promise there..

our fathers and grand fathers *** built this nation through hard work and creating industry and jobs that kept everyone moving forward so there sons and duaghters could send all those jobs over seas or bleed the profits and sell out to larger corporations.. its messed up and we need to return to the core of what made this country so great, maybe that means top precent will losse a little bit of profit but putting everyone back to work will do more good for this country then the elite having a few extra homes or cars..

*** women were at home were they belong not trying to be treated as equals in the work place, J/K......... well not really..


----------



## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

all that clip proves is someone took a clip of rumsfeld speaking and tried to make it look like he was admitting it, propaganda, far left wacked, yes crazy, conspiracy theory to fit into their way of thinking.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

but i dont get it. a few extra homes and cars? ok lets just say some fat cat buys 5 cars and 3 homes. you know how much money that generates? who builds the homes? who inspects them, who hauls the trash and tearoff away, who produces the lumber and the siding and roofing and wiring and vents and carpets....the cars...who engineers them, who markets them who sells them and builds them.

i mean everyone thinks richer people buying buying buying is killing the just getting by people. thats crap. when you spend you create jobs, your cash doesnt just disappear, it goes to companys, people, contractors, distributes back into the world.

so i welcome big spenders. its not their fault im not making 7 figures a year. but its their spending that keeps me employed here.


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

i agree with about 3/4 of that maybe a lil more. I think we should be in The ME right now, but not for the reasons we are. I also feel that without a strong president ( nothing against bush, i voted for him, hes just to into oil) we will be in trouble in the near future. It pisses me off how corporations are moving overseas for cheap labor, and theres another thing the government needs to fix.

why am i proud? well a few reasons...1. being i can vote for someone who can change this without doing it in fear of getting killed, and without someone telling me. 2. I have a say in things, 3. i dont need to worry about getting killed by warlords like on the ivory coast in Africa..

but again you do raise some very good points, and if u dont want to be an american/ patriotic its your choice, i can respect it cuz i respect your reasons for doing so


----------



## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

also just because a country is on a downward spiral, civil war, depression, thriving economy. its where i was born and raised. its where my friends and family are, its where im going to live for the rest of my life, for these reasons i am proud to be an American. I bet if you asked someone from Iraq they would say they are proud of their country, they would say it has some problems but they would accept them and still be proud


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> i mean everyone thinks richer people buying buying buying is killing the just getting by people. thats crap. when you spend you create jobs, your cash doesnt just disappear, it goes to companys, people, contractors, distributes back into the world.
> 
> so i welcome big spenders. its not their fault im not making 7 figures a year. but its their spending that keeps me employed here.


it also gets to a point where the uber rich have far more then they can spend in a way that benifits the economy especailly if there spending alot of that money overseas either investing or vactioning..

im not saying big spenders are bad for the economy, im saying that they can still be big spenders but instead of trying to increase profits by say 20 percent to increase there already ludacris income they could continue to live comfortably but keep the jobs here..

there are plenty of figures out there that the gap between top level execs and everyone under them has increased to redicuous levels, ceos ar making something in the range of 200- 300 times more then there average worker.

antoher factor is that now you have these upper crust who are investing there moeny in teh enconomy and fueling inflation that the rest of the populations income cannot keep up with..

the average salary increase in my company is like 4 percent a year. i would be shocked if the top level guys were only getting that much..

my point is the age old complaint the rich are getting rich and te poor are geting poorer only its becoming a greater problem, im not even poor, im some where int eh middle there but if this has become discussion about patriotism then it hard to be patriotic when just about every thing this country stand for has become about screwing the the common citizen. the american dream is less about making it big and more about being just another shmuck with a nagging wife spoiled kids and more debt then you can ever over come and maybe if your smart a few years of retirement before the stress and unhealthly lifestyle kills you with a heart attack


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

^^^ aint that the truth. point made, point made

i cant say im not following a typical path either so i cant argue with you

i just like to remain optomistic...urgh


----------



## moron (May 26, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if flight 93 was shot down. I know the government knew what was going on. What is this!? a military jet uh? Thats can't be a turbine jet because they would send radio signals not to go threw that perimeter..


----------



## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

hhahaha


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

'SHADOW said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if flight 93 was shot down. I know the government knew what was going on. What is this!? a military jet uh? Thats can't be a turbine jet because they would send radio signals not to go threw that perimeter..


there were military jets flying over the city well before either tower fell after they were hit..


----------



## moron (May 26, 2006)

Dawgz said:


> hhahaha


LMAO


----------

