# Do you go to church/mosque/whatever



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Well do you? I don't and kinda feel bad sometimes. I guess cus my parents always took us to Sunday mass.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

I'm there everytime the church doors are open.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

we all know my answer. just as we all know my opinion.


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## LOON (Jan 30, 2004)

I don't.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

not anymore


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## Soldat (Aug 28, 2004)

I've been meaning to ask as well, but I definitely avoid churches or anything related.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

No - never have, never will visit a service.
Doesn't mean I've never visited a church, however.


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## Bloodbelly (Jun 15, 2004)

I used to go every sunday, but I've lost my faith.
I only visit church when there's a wedding or a funeral.


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

I cant go to church as i am a satanist :laugh:


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## inked82 (Oct 26, 2004)

i dont cos im an atheist


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Since I believe that the Divine is present everywhere and that Nature is sacred, I also believe that proper reverance cannot be accomplished in a space constructed by man. So, basically I believe that simply going for a walk in the woods or meditating outside can be just as rewarding, if not more, than sitting in a pew and throwing money in a collection plate.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

dracofish said:


> than sitting in a pew and throwing money in a collection plate.
> [snapback]818045[/snapback]​


LOL!!


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

I used to HAVE to go when I was younger, But I grew out of that
stage.


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## Apocalypse (Dec 18, 2004)

eeks...I used to attend service every Sunday. Lately...well, only when my lazy ass can get up and motivated.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

60% of you are going to hell for your sins.

LOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

I usually go every other week and on holidays..I didnt go this christmas because christmas mass sucks..all they do is sing silent night in 15 differet languages..plus it starts at 12am...

"Peacock" you're a moron..


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

only funerals and weddings, other wise its a waste of time..


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

I used to attend service regularly, but after I broke up with my last girlfriend, I stopped going to avoid her.

I miss having a church in my life, so I made a resolution to begin attending services at a different church near me after the holidays.


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## diceman69 (Apr 30, 2004)

Only Weddings and Funerals.


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## syd (Nov 6, 2004)

im atheist but i do the weddings and xmas sh*t


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

I go







Every sunday I teach Religious Education at my Unitarian Universalist Church... Its kinda an alternative approach to relgion (and I don't just mean Christianity).


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

aaron07_20 said:


> I usually go every other week and on holidays..I didnt go this christmas because christmas mass sucks..all they do is sing silent night in 15 differet languages..plus it starts at 12am...
> "Peacock" you're a moron..
> [snapback]818187[/snapback]​


Hahaha. i am about as far away from being a moron as you are from being a horses ass...

wait.. that would mean.... i am... a moron!!!

oh well, life goes on.


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## Andy1234 (Apr 23, 2004)

im agnostic(sp?) im just confuzzled if there is one or many higher powers or not but i know that church and religion sucks imo why not beleive what you want to believe not what your family/freindns or other people want you to believe. be your self, and no i dont go to hurch cept for funurals and weddings


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

most churches teach bs. sh*t that aint in the bible. Studying is the best way i can think of. Church can be a waste if you soly agree on what someone tells you.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

I actually get paid as a musician to go to church. I used to ask myself if would go if I wasn't getting paid, and now I know I would. I hear a lot of people trash talking the church - and sometimes for good reason - but some churches are better than others, and I'm fortunate to belong to an open-minded congregation. Also, it seems many people who are quick to deride churches don't seem to have any plausible sollution or alternative to bring people out of their misery. Every religion has its imperfections, and even though I am quite a sinner, I think playing music in church has brought me closer to God in some ironic way.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Down with religon up with Jack


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

I am at church alot...

Peacock, I had nothing to do with this thread! I swear!









Jeffrey


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> I am at church alot...
> 
> Peacock, I had nothing to do with this thread! I swear!
> 
> ...


ahahaha..








- PastorJeff is one kool Cat when it comes to religion..


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Every Sunday I go.

Draco- Theres more to it than "sitting in a pew and putting money in the collection plate." Do you even know why people give their money in the collection plate? You used to follow Christianity, you should know theres A LOT more to it than just throwing money in a plate and sitting in a pew.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Every Sunday I go.
> 
> Draco- Theres more to it than "sitting in a pew and putting money in the collection plate." Do you even know why people give their money in the collection plate? You used to follow Christianity, you should know theres A LOT more to it than just throwing money in a plate and sitting in a pew.
> [snapback]819324[/snapback]​


Yes the pope needs more gold and an even bigger hat, symbol of piety that he is...

Church isn't my thing so I don't attend.


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Yes the pope needs more gold and an even bigger hat, symbol of piety that he is...
> 
> Church isn't my thing so I don't attend.
> [snapback]819419[/snapback]​


be careful confusing "Christans" and Catholics.

I happen to consider myself NOT Christian but agnostic and I go to church for its sense of community. We even have atheiests attend for the same reasons. At my church you are allowed to believe whatever you want... Its really nice.

edit: on a fun note, one of the little girls in my RE group (she's like 10 or 11) told us her theory that the pope was really dead and that the jim henson company had made an animatronic pope for the interim. LOL


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

i dont, i have my own theory. what makes it that christianity is the only right relegion when there are hundreds more relegions that think the same thing. THERE IS NO GOD


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Every Sunday I go.
> 
> Draco- Theres more to it than "sitting in a pew and putting money in the collection plate." Do you even know why people give their money in the collection plate? You used to follow Christianity, you should know theres A LOT more to it than just throwing money in a plate and sitting in a pew.
> [snapback]819324[/snapback]​


Yeah, I know what the collection plate is for. But it's one thing to give to the community from your heart and quite another to be forced to give. Many people do not have the extra money to give and are shunned when they pass the collection plate by. That is not right in my book. Whenever I went to church I would fell guilty by not putting something in the plate. It also boils down to church politics. Those that put in the biggest checks often times feel that they have the right to run the church and be involved in the biggest decisions. My "Bible-thumping" uncle has always been the largest money contributor to any church he attends and always ends up feeling that he has the right to run it because of that. With every chuch he goes to, I also see the community turning on him sooner or later because of his humble superiority complex.

Also, I know the purpose of sitting in a pew. It brings people together under one roof to worship. Well, in discovering my own path I have found that worship does not have to be done under a roof, or in a group setting. To me, outside is the house of God, whatever name you use, so reverance can be given almost anywhere because your body is also a temple, since I believe that all life is sacred. All you have to do is look up...or down for that matter (and no, I'm not talking about Hell, I don't believe in that, I'm talking about looking down at the Earth beneath your feet). Even if you are a follower of the Christian faith, as I used to be, you do not have to attend a church to give thanks and worship Christ, at least that's the way I feel. I always had a problem with attending church. I was of the opinion that if you believe in your heart, then that's all you need to be a Christian, or whatever path you choose. You don't need someone else to tell you what you are. People are all individuals and therefore see and interpret things in different ways. Therefore, one person cannot be expected to see something in the same light as someone else. I believe in finding your own way. Remember, many people attend church because they feel they have to. I was one of them. Of course there's nothing wrong with belonging to a community, but particpate because you want to, not because you think you have to or because someone else tells you that you should in order to be a good practitioner of your faith.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

illnino said:


> i dont, i have my own theory. what makes it that christianity is the only right relegion when there are hundreds more relegions that think the same thing. THERE IS NO GOD
> [snapback]819588[/snapback]​


Actually many of the hundreds more religions think quite differently. Buddhism and Christianity, for example, are very different. I agree though that the idea of placing your religion above others is somewhat of a primitive outlook.


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## remyo (Aug 26, 2004)

voted no


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Tinkerbelle said:


> be careful confusing "Christans" and Catholics.
> 
> I happen to consider myself NOT Christian but agnostic and I go to church for its sense of community. We even have atheiests attend for the same reasons. At my church you are allowed to believe whatever you want... Its really nice.
> 
> ...


If everyone believes what they want...then how would it be a church? I thought a church is a place for christians to go and practice their religion. (no intend to bash/flame)


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## NegativeCamber (Nov 29, 2004)

Fargo said:


> I actually get paid as a musician to go to church. I used to ask myself if would go if I wasn't getting paid, and now I know I would. I hear a lot of people trash talking the church - and sometimes for good reason - but some churches are better than others, and I'm fortunate to belong to an open-minded congregation. Also, it seems many people who are quick to deride churches don't seem to have any plausible sollution or alternative to bring people out of their misery. Every religion has its imperfections, and even though I am quite a sinner, I think playing music in church has brought me closer to God in some ironic way.
> [snapback]818664[/snapback]​


Very well stated.. I agree..


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

dracofish said:


> Well, in discovering my own path I have found that worship does not have to be done under a roof, or in a group setting. To me, outside is the house of God, whatever name you use, so reverance can be given almost anywhere because your body is also a temple, since I believe that all life is sacred. All you have to do is look up...or down for that matter (and no, I'm not talking about Hell, I don't believe in that, I'm talking about looking down at the Earth beneath your feet). Even if you are a follower of the Christian faith, as I used to be, you do not have to attend a church to give thanks and worship Christ, at least that's the way I feel. I always had a problem with attending church. I was of the opinion that if you believe in your heart, then that's all you need to be a Christian, or whatever path you choose. You don't need someone else to tell you what you are. People are all individuals and therefore see and interpret things in different ways. Therefore, one person cannot be expected to see something in the same light as someone else. I believe in finding your own way. Remember, many people attend church because they feel they have to. I was one of them. Of course there's nothing wrong with belonging to a community, but particpate because you want to, not because you think you have to or because someone else tells you that you should in order to be a good practitioner of your faith.
> [snapback]819675[/snapback]​


That honestly stirred up some kind of feeling inside me, it could be my bagel, or it could be that you put into words what I've been mulling over for awhile. That was just put so well, you have my sincerest respect.

Tink - I don't confuse catholic people with all christian people, nor would it matter if I did. All christian people (catholic or otherwise) are ok in my book, even the hardcore jesus pushers who try and convert everyone because I know their heart is in the right place. I've got nothing against catholic people, I just don't like the institution of the catholic church and I really dislike the pope especially, it's nothing at all against christianity.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> That honestly stirred up some kind of feeling inside me, it could be my bagel, or it could be that you put into words what I've been mulling over for awhile. That was just put so well, you have my sincerest respect.
> 
> Tink - I don't confuse catholic people with all christian people, nor would it matter if I did. All christian people (catholic or otherwise) are ok in my book, even the hardcore jesus pushers who try and convert everyone because I know their heart is in the right place. I've got nothing against catholic people, I just don't like the institution of the catholic church and I really dislike the pope especially, it's nothing at all against christianity.
> [snapback]819751[/snapback]​


Why do you dislike the pope?


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Filo said:


> Why do you dislike the pope?
> [snapback]819809[/snapback]​


He's really old. I hope he doesn't drive himself anywhere


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

lol and he has parkinsons, i dont think he drives...i like his bullet proof box that he gets to ride in though.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Filo said:


> lol and he has parkinsons, i dont think he drives...i like his bullet proof box that he gets to ride in though.
> [snapback]819842[/snapback]​


good - one less old person I have to worry about doing 20 mph in the left lane on the freeway with the turn signal on constantly not paying attention to any cars around him


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## yonam (Apr 16, 2004)

not anymore


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Filo said:


> Why do you dislike the pope?
> [snapback]819809[/snapback]​


Aside from the fact that I think it's hipocritical to preach humbleness and the virtue of being pious while wearing a hat that's 4 f*cking feet tall covered in gold trim, his inflexibility in dealing with reality versus ideology is responsible for untold deaths in Africa through the spread of AIDS and HIV. In an ideal world you could say "stop having sex" and have people do it, but it's not an ideal world and telling people in the most AIDS stricken continent in the world that using condoms is a sin is monstrously evil.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Aside from the fact that I think it's hipocritical to preach humbleness and the virtue of being pious while wearing a hat that's 4 f*cking feet tall covered in gold trim, his inflexibility in dealing with reality versus ideology is responsible for untold deaths in Africa through the spread of AIDS and HIV. In an ideal world you could say "stop having sex" and have people do it, but it's not an ideal world and telling people in the most AIDS stricken continent in the world that using condoms is a sin is monstrously evil.
> [snapback]819884[/snapback]​


Do you have a quote on that? Cus last I knew condoms were not shunned upon by the catholic church...?? Just wonderin.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

> On June 5, 1987, the Holy Father warned clergy and theologians of their grave obligation to faithfully transmit the Church's teaching on this subject: "A grave responsibility derives from this: those who place themselves in open conflict with the law of God, authentically taught by the Church, guide spouses along a false path. The Church's teaching on contraception does not belong to the category of matter open to free discussion among theologians. Teaching the contrary amounts to leading the moral consciences of spouses into error." Pope John Paul II also explained that contraception contradicts and is opposed to true love: "Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality." (Familiaris Consortio, #32)


EDIT: In case the quote is too vague for you, there is also this, which is a bit more to the point



> he constant teaching of the Church was again stated on March 1, 1997 when the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family issued a Vade Mecum for Confessors Concerning Some Aspects of the Morality of Conjugal Life. Included in this document is the following statement:
> 
> *The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception*, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity; it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative aspect of matrimony) and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of life (n. 24).


The new guy set to replace the pope when he finally dies and goes to hell is actually of a contrary opinion, and when he takes over, I will stop reffering to the pope as an evil stupid f*ck.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

dracofish said:


> Well, in discovering my own path I have found that worship does not have to be done under a roof, or in a group setting. To me, outside is the house of God, whatever name you use, so reverance can be given almost anywhere because your body is also a temple, since I believe that all life is sacred. All you have to do is look up...or down for that matter (and no, I'm not talking about Hell, I don't believe in that, I'm talking about looking down at the Earth beneath your feet). Even if you are a follower of the Christian faith, as I used to be, you do not have to attend a church to give thanks and worship Christ, at least that's the way I feel. I always had a problem with attending church. I was of the opinion that if you believe in your heart, then that's all you need to be a Christian, or whatever path you choose. You don't need someone else to tell you what you are. People are all individuals and therefore see and interpret things in different ways. Therefore, one person cannot be expected to see something in the same light as someone else. I believe in finding your own way. Remember, many people attend church because they feel they have to. I was one of them. Of course there's nothing wrong with belonging to a community, but particpate because you want to, not because you think you have to or because someone else tells you that you should in order to be a good practitioner of your faith.
> [snapback]819675[/snapback]​


I have to agree; that was very well stated.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> EDIT: In case the quote is too vague for you, there is also this, which is a bit more to the point
> The new guy set to replace the pope when he finally dies and goes to hell is actually of a contrary opinion, and when he takes over, I will stop reffering to the pope as an evil stupid f*ck.
> [snapback]819913[/snapback]​


Interesting read. Thanks for digging that up. This dude lives forever though...i dunno when he will die.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I went to Church (not mass) a few years back. I don't go anymore.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

well i was born a chatolic but when i was old enough to figure my own path i went that way instead and never been happier


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Filo said:


> Do you have a quote on that? Cus last I knew condoms were not shunned upon by the catholic church...?? Just wonderin.
> [snapback]819900[/snapback]​


WHOA NELLIE are you shitting me? the Papacy is VERY against contraception!!!

Go rent yourself a copy of monty python's the meaning of life. the opening song sequence 'every sperm is sacred' kinda covers the subject.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Tinkerbelle said:


> WHOA NELLIE are you shitting me? the Papacy is VERY against contraception!!!
> 
> Go rent yourself a copy of monty python's the meaning of life. the opening song sequence 'every sperm is sacred' kinda covers the subject.
> [snapback]820019[/snapback]​


The pill, shot, condoms, all are looked down upon in Catholism. The idea is Catholism is against sex before marriage and if your married why would you need a contraceptive, kind of idea.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> The pill, shot, condoms, all are looked down upon in Catholism. The idea is Catholism is against sex before marriage and if your married why would you need a contraceptive, kind of idea.
> [snapback]820214[/snapback]​


I've also heard that the Catholic Church looks down on tampons, but I don't know if there's any truth to that.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> That honestly stirred up some kind of feeling inside me, it could be my bagel, or it could be that you put into words what I've been mulling over for awhile. That was just put so well, you have my sincerest respect.
> 
> [snapback]819751[/snapback]​


Thanks. It took me a very long time to get where I am today with my beliefs. It was a long and hard road, one that I'm sure will continue for a very long time. Though for all the hardships of being shunned and looked down upon for being different (and accused of being a Devil-worshipper, something which I am most definately not), I don't regret it for a second. I finally feel like a whole person instead of a lost soul full of questions that could never be answered staying where I was. In finding my way I have also become closer to my ancestral roots, for my mother's family originated from the Somerset area of Britain and my father's family from eastern Scotland, something which I never knew until recently when I was doing research on Celtic ancestry and Mystery Traditions. There is much fulfillment in finding your own way and looking for answers to those questions that never seem to go away. All I can say is that each belief system deserves the utmost respect because when it all boils down to it, we're all looking for the same thing...contact with the Divine. The source of all that is just goes by different names for different people and one name is no better than another, for names really do not matter in the end.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

100% believe in christ, but i cant take all the singing and dont need some fucko who is no better then me regardless of what he's dressed in so much as glance my way with a judgemental eye, last time i went to church i felt like beating the pastor down with the guitar he was playing, but thier was this one pastor, we called him brother love, about the only man of faith i've ever respected..he knew god loves and respects all his children for what they are, and the last thing he should be is feared, even the worst are welcome back with open arms after they get tired of f*cking up.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

god and i r not on speaking terms at the present time


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

Does the pope even know where he is half the time? i think that he lost it years ago.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

shoe997bed263 said:


> Does the pope even know where he is half the time? i think that he lost it years ago.
> [snapback]820484[/snapback]​


No Idea.

The Pope is only important to Catholics, to Protestants and others, he's a piece of old sh*t. WTF does the Pope do now anyway? He's probally covering up some more sh*t.


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## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

There are some really damnable heresies that the Roman Catholic Church has created through out the centuries. One of them being Indulgences. Meaning that attaining salvation from the punishment of one's sins is what the Roman Church calls indulgences. For example, one may pay $$$ to have a mass said for a relative believed to be in purgatory. Which by the way is not scriptural. Anways a mass will then account for a certain number of days deleted from his purgatorial sentence. The Roman Catholic Church says it alone can grant this essential blessing for full salvation, and then condemns to hell those who disagree -- virtually all non-Catholics! Pfffffffffffffft
This is false doctrine of the highest order IMHO. This is how the Catholic Church has historically made its billions by offering salvation for $$. Which it amassed huge properties around the world. Then good ol Martin Luther came on the scene opposed this evil practice of selling indulgences.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

I went to church every sunday, preceded every sunday by catochism(sp?) for 8 years. I was raised Ukrainian Catholic. I was baptized, confirmed, all that jazz. My family attended one parish, and then another(where my family currently attends).

I now only attend on christmas eve, but i feel bad about doing it. The only reason i go is to appease my parents. My problems with my church come from a lot of stuff i have observed over the last 22 years of my life. I can't stand how people act in church. Sure, there are the people that are truly humble and go their for their own satisfaction, but the majority seem like the are just trying to look good in front of other people. I see people show up 10 minutes late for mass, walk down the center aisle with their huge fur coats on and sit right in the front. Why dont they just sit in the back?

SEcondly, i disagree with most of the church's stances. I have no problem with gay marriage or abortion.

Some of the things i have seen priests and such do are appaling considering the position they are in. Once, during a sermon, my priest proceeded to lecture everyone who was at church about how bad it was to miss church, talk about preaching to the choir. This same priest during a sermon, said that "aids and hiv is the punishment for being homosexual". How f*cking lame.

Another story concerns a woman in our church that had a child before marriage. This girls family was fairly well known in our church. At one of our teas (gatherings where people have a small lunch), a priest began to say how bad it is when people have children before marriage, this girl that had the child, was in the front row. How pitiful. I hope the priest slept well after promoting god's word that day.

The priest at my old church also was a quasi real estate speculator. He sat on a tonne of land for ages and when suburbia hit that area, he sold that land for a HUGE amount of cash. My church also built massive residences for the priests and sisters, they were both pimp. So much for the oath of poverty they must take.

I have thought about visiting a non-denominational church, since the catholic church has pretty well burnt all its bridges with me. To me, it seems that my church is so hell bent(pardon the pun) on teaching(more like forcing) its beliefs, rather than making everyone feel welcome and being a happy place. Church just never seemed happy to me, it never seemed like people were enjoying it, it just seemed like a chore for the people there. I see video from huge churches in the states and it intrigues me. I have never seen that here.

Right now in my life, i guess i could call myself agnostic. I dont believe in creationism, so that throws a lot of stuff out. I also can not see how god is everwhere if there is so much violence and crime in the world.

Anyways, this post was a bit off topic. But, no, i dont go to church.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

i some times will enter a church to ask for forgiveness of my sins.


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## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

I prefer small home fellowships
There alot more personal and because its in someone home.
You can just be you.....


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

I dont go.


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

scrubbs said:


> I also can not see how god is everwhere if there is so much violence and crime in the world.
> [snapback]820687[/snapback]​


That's because humans, being humans, are quite capable of making mistakes and doing "evil" upon one another. Probably one of the largest contributors is ignorance and intolerance of other faiths and/or races. Education (and no, I'm not necessarily talking about stuff like 2 + 2) is the first step to obtaining balance. But, do not confuse suffering with evil. There are most certainly evil beings in this world, but that does not make the world itself evil or wrong. I cannot believe that our lives should be spent only in preparation to move on from such a cruel existence. Death and suffering are all parts of life, and life cannot exist without them. Through death, life continues...it's all a big cycle. Just as light cannot exist without dark, day without night, summer without winter, white without black, male without female, and "good" without "evil." Through stages of personal suffering, we often learn valuable lessons in life. When younger I was verbally and physically abused by an alcoholic father. Though I feel that no child should have to be put through such horrors, I do feel that I have used my past suffering to learn and help make myself a better person. Do I wish it never happened? Sure, anyone would. But, would I be the same person I am today if it didn't? Probably not. Learning all of life's lessons cannot be all sugar and gumdrops.

Now, how do I come to the conclusion of believing that the Divine is present in all things? Well, I look at how our lives are governed by so many cyclical factors of rising and falling, life and death, male and female, or light and dark. Look at the cycle of the moon, that in turn governs the tides. It also has a large influence on our own actions and those of our brother animals. Then there's the smaller cycle of the turning of our own planet. As the sun rises and then falls to give way to the night, it will only come back again as a sunrise the next day. Look at the cycle of the seasons which is a prime example of the cycle of birth, growth, life, decay, and death. As the spring gives way to summer and then to the decay of autumn and the death of winter, we know that that death will only give way to more life come springtime. It is the same with our own lives. As we are born and grow as individuals and then die, our bodies become fuel for more life. The carnivore that eats the herbivore only becomes food for the herbivore after it dies, and so the cycle is repeated. It's all one large never-ending wheel. That is how I can believe that the Divine, our Mother and Father, is everywhere, because everything is part of the sacred wheel of life. They are present in all things. When I take a walk in the woods and see the trees, mountains, or even just look up at the moon or at a beautiful sunset, I can't help having a feeling of awe, and can never understand how some people can believe that the earth is a forsaken place, that we should only seek to escape it, like it's some horrible prison or that life is a punishment for some crime that was never comitted. No, I can't see it at all. Life is beautiful and can be seen in all things, and should therefore be celebrated, not cast aside as a sin.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

scrubbs said:


> I also can not see how god is everwhere if there is so much violence and crime in the world.
> 
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God created us as a free will being and not robots. It's your choice to do evil and not God's, so don't blame God for what you do. You want to know what God's will is for us? Read the Bible for yourself! Anyone can lead you down the wrong path including preachers, priests, ministers, etc, if you don't know what the Bible says.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

rchan11 said:


> God created us as a free will being and not robots. It's your choice to do evil and not God's, so don't blame God for what you do. You want to know what God's will is for us? Read the Bible for yourself! Anyone can lead you down the wrong path including preachers, priests, ministers, etc, if you don't know what the Bible says.
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That is the problem, what use is it if i can be skateboarding and get jumped by some kids and get into a brawl? i can live my life as good as i want, but its the other people i don't trust that can screw me over.

And draco, no offense to what you believe in, but most of the stuff you say is because of a divinity, i say it is because of science. It goes either way.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

i think my problem with church has to do with what some people here have stated in this thread, one of my pet peeves is hipocrocy, and it is hard for me to take any one serious that portrays them selves one way in church but then act the opposite outside. i dont believe in ignoring our temptations, fucked up thoughts, or ill feelings just because someone says its supposedly not right. i'd rather get too know those things about my self very well and choose at will what to indulge and what not to because god gave me this free will, and that is who i am.

at the same time i refuse to believe i will be condemed in any way or judged by him based on my thoughts, feelings and actions. i believe i will be judged on my discretion and nothing else. lets just say that i am wrong and will be judged based on my trial and error, then heaven is no place i want to be, and who ever runs hell better make some room and throw in an air conditioner


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I'm so sick of "God and volience" sh*t. Some humans are just sick, mean, aggressive beings, just like other life on this planet plain and simple. Volience is wrong because we're taught its wrong. Do you all think killing animals to live is wrong? Its voilent to kill so, therefor god doesn't exist, thats bullshit. Do you think its volient to kill a cockroach? Cricket? Goldfish? Bacteria on toilents and surfaces? Killing is killing, life is life even in simplest of forms.

God is even voilent according to some scriptures.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

User said:


> I'm so sick of "God and volience" sh*t. Some humans are just sick, mean, aggressive beings, just like other life on this planet plain and simple. Volience is wrong because we're taught its wrong. Do you all think killing animals to live is wrong? Its voilent to kill so, therefor god doesn't exist, thats bullshit. Do you think its volient to kill a cockroach? Cricket? Goldfish? Bacteria on toilents and surfaces? Killing is killing, life is life even in simplest of forms.
> 
> God is even voilent according to some scriptures.:laugh:
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:nod:







i think your on too something here...:laugh: for the life of me i never understood why jews place a sheet with a hole between them before they hump.







:laugh:







what is that??

why is it not a sin to, for what ever reason, place a sheet with a hole in it between them, but it is a sin to bend her over and throw a bag on her head


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Liquid said:


> :nod::nod: i think your on too something here...:laugh: for the life of me i never understood why jews place a sheet with a hole between them before they hump.:laugh::laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

what does that face mean user?


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## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

scrubbs said:


> And draco, no offense to what you believe in, but most of the stuff you say is because of a divinity, i say it is because of science. It goes either way.
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Science is great, I embrace it fully. Because of science we have come to better understand our planet and how it ticks. But, that does not mean that we still can't find some sort of Divinity in it. Some religions fall way behind the times and can never update themselves because they renounce science. Instead, many Mystery Traditions embrace it. As time goes by, science changes. We develop new technology and come to have a better understanding of science. Change is needed. In order for any path to stand the test of time it must be able to change with the times. My belief in Divinity does not go against any teachings of science. I believe in evolution, the laws of physics, and quantum mechanics. But, in believing in those things, I'm still allowed to believe in the sacredness of life and the close role that Divinity plays in it.


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