# Piranha Acting Wierd?



## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

so recently my Red ruby spilo has stopped eating and just kinda chills in one spot of the tank??? Just kinda hovering there?? Also its near the top of the aquarium?? should I be concerned .....I dont know what to do? He usually eats pretty regularly eavery other day or so but its been about 4 days now...... what should I do? No nitrite readings and ammo is low 0.50 ppm. but thats usually what its been steady at since my tank doesnt ever seem to wanna cycle. scared please help


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## SirusX1721 (Oct 6, 2008)

How's the oxygen levels? Any rapid gill movement? Excellerated breathing?

Tank doesn't want to cycle? How much time have you given it to cycle? Method to help cycle?

Sorry for all the ?'s, but more info is kind of needed hahah.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

SirusX1721 said:


> How's the oxygen levels? Any rapid gill movement? Excellerated breathing?
> 
> Tank doesn't want to cycle? How much time have you given it to cycle? Method to help cycle?
> 
> Sorry for all the ?'s, but more info is kind of needed hahah.


How do I check oxygen levels??? Gill movement looks fine.....Ive had this tank up and running since december.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

^^^was wondering the same thing....


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Chad,
Well, to be honest, I don't think there is anything wrong..All piranhas go through these "phases" during their lifetime...their behavior patterns, skittishness, eating habits, etc. are very mercurial to say the least...You will see all kinds of variances as time goes on...My Black Diamond that I had would sometimes wolf down a dozen feeders in one sitting or eat two smelt everyday for a two week duration and then he wouldn't eat for like 3 straight weeks...Your Ruby Red Spilo is behaving rather skittish, but this type of behavior to expect from these fish 95% of the time.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Heres a pic...kinda blurry but he looks fine....hope its all ok...how do I check oxygen levels and should there be an air stone or something creating bubbles in the tank????


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

cant really check oxygen levels. if there is lots of surface movement you can almost bet theres lots of oxygen


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## SirusX1721 (Oct 6, 2008)

Salifert makes oxygens test kits. You'd be surprised at levels even with surface turnover, lol. Da' Manster has a very good point with the skittishness of the Spilo, so mabye time is the best thing... I was curious on the oxygen since you said something about him staying near the top of the tank.

What size tank is he in?


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

They can go a LONG time before they need a feeding.. I would just keep offering food to him every couple of days.. Nothing to worry about IMO.. He just may have found a new "safe" spot and dont wanna move outta it.. I have a red that does that.. He hides in the top right corner of my tank right where my hoses for the intake and the exit for my canister..


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## the keeper (Jan 16, 2010)

still, its not normal for his p to be at the top,unless he isnt getting enough oxygen, if he's worryed about breathing, he's not going to be to worried about eating. do you have a powerhead? or something to help with water agutation? i use powerheads in all my tanks and i never had a p. stay at the top, only time they come up, is for food, or to try and bite my finger.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

When you say "he's at the top" is he litterally gulping at the surface of water? Almost likes he's trying to take in air?


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## the keeper (Jan 16, 2010)

imo theirs defferent stages, depending how much oxygen is in the water, if he's at the top gulping, then theres a critical lack of, if he'sclose to the top (without hiding behind an object) , imo theres a lack of oxygen, not critcal, but nessesary need for it. that may be the reason for the change of habbits, (not eating, etc.). and keep doing your water changes to keep that ammo. reading in check.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

No hes at the top but his heads angled down so his mouth isnt actually gulping at the top.... hes in a 55 gallon alone. umm...I do have a powerhead though probably not as powerful as it should be.....Im just concerned because he used to swim around and follow me around and now he just chills in one spot pretty much for hours on end.... its almost like his tail is at the top of the water......i did recently add an algae remover to the tank to get my diatoms under control, but only half of the recomended dosage? idk whats going on with him??


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

A 55G with one fish and reg water changes should be fine with the oxygen levels. My guess would be the algae remover stuff. Only add chemicals as a LAST resort. For diatoms pick up on water changes and scrubbing the glass usually does the trick for me.


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## Rugged Child (Oct 3, 2006)

lo4life said:


> A 55G with one fish and reg water changes should be fine with the oxygen levels. My guess would be the algae remover stuff. Only add chemicals as a LAST resort. For diatoms pick up on water changes and scrubbing the glass usually does the trick for me.


I think maybe a 15-25% water change may be a good idea. Why don't you try a small water change and give us an update on his condition in a little while?


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Yeah I just finished a small water change about 20% or so... he was swimming around while I was doing it like normal sooo I guess ill see how it goes.....as for the diatoms I was getting them really bad and having to scrub like every 3 days with water changes and not seeing any sign of improvement.....thats why i dosed it with the algae remover which actually worked but id rather have a happy fish heh


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Well that's good that ur fish is doin better. I'd keep a eye on him for the rest of the weekend.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

Hey there. I don't think you have anything to worry about . Your fish is showing typical behaviour of most new fish . Let me ask you a question , Whats Your fish doing while your sleeping ? I bet he's swimming around that fish tank back and forth having the time of it's life. than you wake up in the morning , and your fish is sitting in the corner (Because fish love hunting at night). and you think there is a problem.

Fish In my experiences Will Either be Bottom Swimmers , Middle Swimmers , or top Swimmers. Never usually changing.
My Mac is a Bottom Swimmer , My Reds are Bottom Swimmers(until they are hungry and become Top) and , My Elongatus is a Middle Swimmer , Always has beeen even Other Elongs I have owned , and my Old Sanchezi was a Top Swimmer. in the Top Corner of my tank.

and by the way. its been 7 Days since I have Fed my Elongatus and Maculatus not because they won't eat. But because by varying their Feeding schedule, it has kept them on their heels and they are not lazy because they always need to be ready for when food possibly may come next.


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## Rugged Child (Oct 3, 2006)

Jon87 said:


> Hey there. I don't think you have anything to worry about . Your fish is showing typical behaviour of most new fish . Let me ask you a question , Whats Your fish doing while your sleeping ? I bet he's swimming around that fish tank back and forth having the time of it's life. than you wake up in the morning , and your fish is sitting in the corner (Because fish love hunting at night). and you think there is a problem.
> 
> Fish In my experiences Will Either be Bottom Swimmers , Middle Swimmers , or top Swimmers. Never usually changing.
> My Mac is a Bottom Swimmer , My Reds are Bottom Swimmers(until they are hungry and become Top) and , My Elongatus is a Middle Swimmer , Always has beeen even Other Elongs I have owned , and my Old Sanchezi was a Top Swimmer. in the Top Corner of my tank.
> ...


Insightful!

..but perhaps instead of using algae removing chemicals he can try using filter padding or media that has phosphate removers built in..that may reduce the amount of scrubbing required. That along with more frequent water changes for a while may help.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

What are you running for filtration and do you do regular gravel vacs with your waterchanges?


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

yes i gravel vac and I have an aquatech 30-60 gallon hang on filter and a fluval 305..... I was just concerned because He used to swim around al the time right in front of me but not anymore


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## gtc (Nov 5, 2008)

i dont think there's anything wrong with him, you got to understand that in the wild, piranhas dont eat as much as we feed them in captivity therfore i wont worry too much about him not eating. In regards to him just chilling in one spot, i do agree that he just found a sweet spot for him to chill, try turning off the lights where his tank is and try to observe him from a distance and see if he swims around. I'm pretty sure that one of these days he'll get hungry and will snap out of his lil hunger strike. Good luck.


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

I was a little baffled by the change in behavior until I read this...


> i did recently add an algae remover to the tank to get my diatoms under control, but only half of the recomended dosage? idk whats going on with him??


Piranhas are hypersensitive to chemical additives.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

Yeah theres definitely something wrong with him.... I know there is...... Ive been feeding him pellets with the Vita chem and tilapia and Ive done one feeder fish which was really tiny about 2 weeks before he acted like this...... and believe me I know my fish and theres definitely something up. Just kinda chills at the top swimming sideways a little but just hovering.....seems to look like darker in color to me than before??? So whats a good product to cure fish sickness if you dont know whats wrong with him...... isnt there something I can try?? Something non harmful to them??


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## snomaniac (Mar 15, 2010)

Don't panic & start throwing crap in the tank. Did you add an airstone? What are your levels? Since you have an algae issue where are you nitrate levels at? Have you checked the temp, ph? What are you using to set & buffer the ph. Hopefully you are conditioning your water or are you using di or ro water. Something is wrong if your tank isn't cycled. Are you changing all the media in your filters? I know it's alot of questions, but we need to start somewhere.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

snomaniac said:


> Don't panic & start throwing crap in the tank. Did you add an airstone? What are your levels? Since you have an algae issue where are you nitrate levels at? Have you checked the temp, ph? What are you using to set & buffer the ph. Hopefully you are conditioning your water or are you using di or ro water. Something is wrong if your tank isn't cycled. Are you changing all the media in your filters? I know it's alot of questions, but we need to start somewhere.


didnt add an airstone....ph has been stable since tank setup at about 8.2, temp 78 degress, when I do water changes I use aquasafe water conditioner, Only changed a little media last time I cleaned filter.... made sure to leave 75% of the biomax rings and replaced the the carbon with more biomax rings. oh and as for Nitrate...always comes out 0.....always. wierd huh. Im using the api master freshwater test kit so its not the kit........ what now?


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

how long has the tank been set up for?


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

mid december


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

I see plants in your avatar. Are those live or plastic?


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

plastic


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

First and foremost, do not add any chemicals/meds to his tank. There is no need for them and I've learned the hard way that serras are very susceptible to poisening. I'm going to assume that aquasafe is some kind of dechlorinator so only use the recommended amount to take care of chlorine after a water change. 
I'm inclined to think that this is just boiling down to your tank not being fully cycled. If you were to be testing 10ppm NO3, that would at least show some cycle activity but the fact that your testing zero with no live plants eating your NO3 along with the presence of NH3 is telling me that the tank is not completely cycled. 
IMO, I'd work on getting some fully established media of some kind in that tank pronto because this may be the reason why your spilo is showing signs of stress.


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## snomaniac (Mar 15, 2010)

0 nitrate, no live plants, .050 ammonia, and 0 nitrite. setup for 3 months. You have got to be playing around to much with something... Your PH is also very high. This is what works for me. I don't use tap water. but everything else is the same. Ok here goes, pick up these products by seachem, Prime, stability, acid buffer, akaline buffer. I use fluval carbon, and seachem purigen. which are both working very well for me. Condition your tap with prime for your water changes, Do not use the next part for your water changes until you have the ph in the tank set.. Mix 2 parts alkaline buffer with 1 part acid buffer and dissolve in a cup with some tank water. after you mix it dump it in the tank. Do this over a few days to a week or two. you don't want the ph to drop that fast so start with teaspoons worth of the buffer each day until you reach a ph of 7.0. Add the stability to the tank in the recomended doses. Do this while you are lowering the ph. I also use a product by tropical science called amazon rain, I alternate this biweekly with tetra blackwater extract. Both products will soften the water. I would then pick up a KH test kit. and see what the hardness of your water is. Leave everthing in the filter alone until you see your ammonia at 0, nitrites at 0 and nitrates starting to come up. by this time the ph in the tank should be down to 7.0 and at that point you can do a water change and condition the water with prime then the acid/alkaline buffers.. Ammonia at a ph of 8.2 is extremly toxic. why is your ph so high?? in the mean time I would get as much air(oxygen) into the tank as I could..


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## the keeper (Jan 16, 2010)

your ph is pretty high, but be carful messing with it, its even worse when your ph is jumping all around. how often are you doing water changes? are you doing to much so your tank doesnt cycle?3 months is a crazy amount of time for a tank not to cycle. maybe your just doing something wrong and dont know it. i use aquasafe and it works good for me, bro, i know you been going through this for a long time, just dont get disceraged, this a great hobby, we will get to the bottom of this dont you worry, we are all here for you man.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

we probably would get to the bottom of this if everyone actually gave some advice that was constant .....ugh ever since ive started the cycling process ive done everything I was told to do and still no cycled tank.... I only do a partial water change every week or so now to keep that ammo level in check.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

I guess I dont understand the whole cycle process and as far as the ph goes ive been told and read that as long as it remains stable DONT TOUCH IT!! I set up my tank in mid december let it run for a week to make sure temp was ok....added a couple cichlids to get an ammo started and not once did I have a nitrite or nitrate reading EVER! Im running to filters on a 55 gallon tank with all compartments in my fluval 305 with biomax rings and i use aquasafe tapwater conditioner whenever I do partial water changes to keep ammo levels at bay from hurting my fish which is what I was instructed to do..... I dont know why its not cycling and am getting very frustrated someone help and tell me whats going on and the correct actions I need to take......









when your doing water changes with your tap water conditioner how do you guys do it??? maybe im doing it wrong..... I vacc the gravel and then I take my bucket and scoop out water about 25% and then I run tap water into the bucket and put the correct amount of aquasafe into the water and carry it to my tank and dump it in....?? is that right??


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## snomaniac (Mar 15, 2010)

You will get 40 different answers from 30 different people. I only told you what has worked for me over the years in a multitude of fresh & saltwater tanks. You are correct about the ph being consistant. but it is still high for the fish you have. I have the same fish & he is in 6.8 ph. You say you have the filter packed with biomax. You do not need that much. Set the filter so that you have the white foam pads in the vertical tray, the first basket should be carbon, the second you can use for the polishing pads & a bag of purigen or the media of your choice, & last tray at the top should have the bio rings. Do not touch, rinse, shake or change these for 8 months to a year. That is where your biological filtration is going to take place within the filter. Do not vac the gravel, again this is where biological filtration will take place. do not change the water for 4 to 5 weeks. add the stability & lower the ph. use the prime to convert toxic ammonia & nitrite to non toxic as the tank is cycling. ADD AN AIR STONE... The unfortunate part is you have the fish that you wish to keep in a tank that has not been setup correctly. I'm sorry if I sound harsh. But someone has misinformed you on how to setup & maintain a tank. Try not to do anything drastic or you will lose the fish.. 
I wish you luck & hope it works out..

Joe


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Lifer374 said:


> IMO, I'd work on getting some fully established media of some kind in that tank pronto


I can't stress that enough.


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## snomaniac (Mar 15, 2010)

Try this..

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm



Lifer374 said:


> IMO, I'd work on getting some fully established media of some kind in that tank pronto


I can't stress that enough.
[/quote]
Agreed. Probably the best thing he can do.


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## chaddfc (Dec 29, 2009)

well thats the best straight forward answer ive heard gonna give it a try....thanks!


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