# for serrasalmuscollector



## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

had 5 in this but was a mess i almost lose 2 of them so i lef the ones who i watched could get alone here are some pics


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## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

another shoot


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## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

...


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## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

...


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Well the first thing you want to do is drop the overall water temperature&#8230; I took mine down to 66 degrees farenheight&#8230; Do not reduce the water level yet&#8230; Keep the water level full in the tank. I know that is pretty cold, but it lowers the metabolic rated&#8230; I don't know if it is factual, but this is a hypothesis I have had success with&#8230; I believe when the metabolism is lowered shoaling can be forced&#8230;The fish should start to huddle together in a couple days&#8230; There will still be the game of tag, and take a piece of fin, but not as severe&#8230;Try do keep the tank so there are always about 20 rosies in there&#8230;
Next you want to find charchuse colored horse hair mats, or coconut fiber&#8230; If you can't find it, I can send you some&#8230;IF you have success can you send me some of the eggs, they will be a transparent, translucent color&#8230; But there are a few more things to do&#8230; The overall process, may take about 2 months. I will tell you step by step what I did&#8230; Sorry I haven't replied to you E-mail&#8230; I worked 12 hours, and spent 6 hours on my private fish&#8230;I will send you some pics of my project, and the next steps I did.
I hope your tank is at least 100 gallons.. 6 foot length&#8230;I will be repeating everything I tell you myself&#8230; I am getting 10 irritans today, and curious as to if the same procedures will work&#8230; Hopefully we will have a similar experience leading to a fertile spawning&#8230;If we both have success I will send you some fish or eggs too&#8230; I think that is a great thing for hobbyist to do&#8230;
Oh yeah.. reduce the temperature slowly, about 4 degrees a day...Reduce the temperature during the night time, or when you lights are off

Warning <Don't drop the temperature below 62.. that is dangerous to the fish>

PS, could you E-mail me a full picture of you tank.. I want to see your filtration&#8230; If you don't have undergravel you're gonna need a couple bubble sticks, on a valve&#8230; We will also be playing with the oxidation and aeration in the tank&#8230;

*Hope you have success!!!*


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## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

OK THE TANK IS 500 LITTER TANK IT HAS A UNDEGRAVEL FILTER AND HAS GRAVEL TWO I GO 2 POWER HEADS AND A FLUVAL PLUS FILTER AND A AQUACLEAR FILTER 500 I GOT SOME FISHES THERE NOW THAT IM MOVING AS SOON AS THE POEPLE FROM THE ACUARIUM BRINGS ME ANOHER AND BIGGER TANK FOR THEM HERE IS A SHOOT OF HE TANK BEING USED BY THE OTHER BOYS


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## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

AND NO DOUBT IF THIS HAPPENS I WILL SEND YOU SOME OF THIS EGGS.. .. AND THANX FOR THE IRRITANS HELL DOWN HERE I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM ITS VERY HARD TO SEE SERRAS IN ANY ACUARIUM

THANX
B..C


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

This posting is from a previous post, about breedin spiloCF not gold spilo, or red... I think this topic should be closed so the wrong ideas aren't conveyed...

Once again just some of my opinions where I have come to belive in the possibility of coloration and type of the spawning material being different for different species.... These techniques were not used with reds of S.maculatus.... I don't like the talk about my spiloCF experience but a fellow hobbyist is inquireing...

I will E-mail you Alligatormx


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## ALLIGATORMEX (Aug 28, 2003)

OK I WILL WAIT FORYOUR MAIL

B.C.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

No reason to close it SC. This is a learning area and obnoxous posts will meet a quick deletion or re-editing by me.

Just for you information Captive Breeding of S. maculatus (once called Captive Breeding of S. gibbus) can be found in the Quinn PIRANHAS Fact and Fiction book (pg 106) with a few excellent photos and the original TFH magazine article by Hiroshe Azuma. These fish were later thought to be S. spilopleura and then further rehabilitated by Michel Jegu who then said the fish was S. maculatus. In either case, good article to get ahold of.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I am sorry frank... After receiveing many Emails after this post about reds.. I didn't want to lead people in the wrong direction... When I first tried to spawn fish everyone told me wrong information... From bright lights 18 hours a day to tremendous temperature fluctuations from day to night...I won't discredit these ideas, but the way they were laid out was totally wrong... I tired me first spawning with Spilo CF.... Jim told me to stop and learn reds first... I was very arrogant and hard headed... I kept trying and tryin with nothing but night time agression....

Finally I listened... Even if I had success with the spiloCF, my knowledge of raising fry was zero... Jim started to make scense... I researched and tried to figure it out on my own... I envited him over, and showed him my tank... He told me.. You have way too many fish... I had 18 reds, and 2 golds in a 90 gallon... I stayed hard headed... Then I was informed about a colored mesh material... I found it... Damn... My fish spawned in a week.... I learned to hatch shrimp and raise the fish with minimal casualties.... I tired the SpiloCF with idential methods... No luck... I thought about the spawning material... Started playing with colors and had a single success with charchouse.....

I figured golds and SpiloCF were closely related.. I duplicated the pocedures, and no luck... I tired many colors and had success... I notice that everytime the Golds {AKA S.Maculatus} spawned it was on a perticular color...

I may possibly be on to something... With 4 different colors of mesh moved in the tank after every spawn, the golds irronically laid eggs on the same colored material...

But my techniqes are really different from others... My tanks are so dark, you can't see from the front to the back...I have asked other who have spawed and they don't use this tecnique.... My fish have never laid eggs on slate or in the rocks... Every single time it is in the mesh, and some eggs scattered beyond to the neighboring plants...

I agreed to tell Alligatormex my exact steps for the spiloCF.....

I just didn't want people to start ripping it apart... I would never take to time to construct and post a lie... I am not that type of an individual...

I also use cold water, and methods of confinement, that may be hazardous to a colony of fish... I never loss any to these methods, but I will agree I was lucky... These were just my own ideas of what happens in the South American waters when the Dry season leads ito the wet season....I would truly not want anyone to follow my instruction and end up with just one mutilated fish....As I explore and experiment, these methods may become less drastic...

Since Alligator want to attemp my methods, and I am getting a quality of S.Irritans for a great price...We can keep good contact, and perform simular experiments...Hopefully both have success...

Those of you that know me, know everything I spawn now will have a percentage sexed under the microscope....I would wish me luck.... My success with different species will provide hobbiest with scientifically verified pairs, at a really economic price...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Hard-headedness seems to be a strong attribute in some of these forums. I find it often myself when confronted by a hobbyists with -0- experience yet a 2 year expert on seeing 5 or 6 piranas in a glass tank and think they solved life's mysteries.

SpiloCF is not the same as spilopleura or maculatus. SpiloCF is a completely different species and would have to be approached same as S. rhombeus in terms of spawning conditions and habitat, however you have much better chances than their giant relatives in the home aquario.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2003)

whats the colored mesh material?


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I have used different material for different fish....

Colored Dls for some for Reds
Natural Peat leave and twigs for others S.Maculatus
and Colored horsehair @ coconut fiber the the SpiloCF


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2003)

sorry, but whats Dls?


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

DLS is a filter material that resembles a furnace filter... Most LFS that have a large salt water section have that material.... It may be expensive, but works 100%


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

You can enter an RV store and buy the filtration material there in bulk (large sheets). It's the exact same material S_C is talking about.


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## munky2000r (Sep 15, 2003)

s_c, do you sex your fish by yourself? and what are u looking for? do you look for the internal sex organs, and how hard is it to do ... just wondering about the whol sexing aspect, if you could give us so info on that it would be great


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Apparently there is a method for sexing piranhas under a microscope...Frank shared this invormation with the entire forum... It has changed my entire breeding operations....Here is the link with the information

Microscopic Sexing

Up untill that I used several other methods of sexing piranhas... None have been scientificaly proven 100% accurate, but they can increase the odds of having multi-sexed colonies...

Here is a link to the methods I use...
Methods of increasing the odds of having pairs of piranha


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2003)

thanks, is it called DLS in the rv stores or saltwater sections?


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2003)

Found some, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...=1&N=2004&Nty=1 really expensive, 12" piece is $23


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

n3p said:


> Found some, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...=1&N=2004&Nty=1 really expensive, 12" piece is $23


 There is another material... It's about $5.00 a yard... I will let you know what it is tomorrow... I have to find it and the name... I got tons around the house, but I don't know what you call it...


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2003)

ok


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## w0rldwide (Jul 5, 2003)

what happen did they beed?


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