# Fish going nuts tank cloudy need help



## gyounadim (Apr 8, 2009)

I have 4 rbp's in a 75g tank with 2 emp 400 filters. I left on vacation for 4 days and came back today and my water is very cloudy. My piranhas who are usually very shy and like to hide in the back are freaking out and coming to the front of the tank and even chasing my finger! My tank has been set up for about 4 to 5 weeks and the piranhas have been in there for about 2 weeks. I used many products including Tetra Safe Start, Stress Coat, Stress Zyme, Ammo Lock, and Aquarium Salt. My Ammo level is sky high and using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit it is very dark blue so it must be over 8.0 ppm. Is Ammo Lock enough to stop the ammonia and not kill my fish? Please any help would be appreciated I don't want my P's to die.









Edit: Also just noticed some white stringy balls in the gravel could be left over tilapia that I forgot to clean not sure.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

What are you using for filtration and how long has your ammo level been high for. I feel if you were using all these products that is a overkill on conditioners bigtime. You don't need to use salt for anything but medicinal purposes. And using all those other products might have spiked your level readings at a minnimum and can't be good using them all at the same time. So when you cycled your tank did your ammonia level drop to zero?? Did anything malfunction while you were away? Was anyone watching your fish while you were gone and added something too? Please if you can post all water Param's if you have testing for ammonia,nitrite,and nitrate levels. Do you ever add water dechlorinater and what is your water change schedule and amount done like? If you can answer as many of these questions as possible then we can figure out where to go from here! I don't want to suggest anything right now to add because you have added so much already. Once we figure why we are high level ammonia then we can come up with a proper game plan.


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## gyounadim (Apr 8, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> What are you using for filtration and how long has your ammo level been high for. I feel if you were using all these products that is a overkill on conditioners bigtime. You don't need to use salt for anything but medicinal purposes. And using all those other products might have spiked your level readings at a minnimum and can't be good using them all at the same time. So when you cycled your tank did your ammonia level drop to zero?? Did anything malfunction while you were away? Was anyone watching your fish while you were gone and added something too? Please if you can post all water Param's if you have testing for ammonia,nitrite,and nitrate levels. Do you ever add water dechlorinater and what is your water change schedule and amount done like? If you can answer as many of these questions as possible then we can figure out where to go from here! I don't want to suggest anything right now to add because you have added so much already. Once we figure why we are high level ammonia then we can come up with a proper game plan.


My Nitrite and Nitrate levels are both 0. The salt was added with the Stress Coat a couple weeks ago because they got into a fight and bit some flesh by the dorsal fin area. All of my equipment still is working when I got back tonight and while i was gone i had my sister feed them one time. I did added Prime water dechlorinater when i first setup the tank and my LFS said i would not need to do a water change for a couple weeks so the cycling process would not be prolonged so I have not done one yet. I also try to clean up as much food as possible after feeding but their is LOTS of debris in the gravel so maybe I should do a water change?


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## jman785 (May 8, 2005)

A water change should be the first thing you do no matter what...get your tank partially stable to support your fish and get them calmed down. I recommend doing at least a 50% water change.

Then you need to concentrate on why your having Ammonia spikes...probably due to excess food.

You probably didn't fully get the tank cycled and with the addition of the P's, it has only delayed the process.

If your Ammonia is that high and your Nitrite is 0, then your tank isn't cycled. You need to get an 'established' filter that's still wet (hasn't dried out, fresh out of the filter is best) from someone you know, use that in your filters to try to establish some beneficial bacteria. All that snake oil products don't work worth a sh*t IMO. Using gravel from established tanks also works.

You also mentioned you have lots of debris in the gravel, you need to be vacuuming at least once a week. Get a Python, it makes it a lot easier. You can vacuum and do the water change at the same time.


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## gyounadim (Apr 8, 2009)

Ok so I did a 50% water change and vaccumed the gravel. The water cleared up a little bit but is still kind of cloudy. The ammo level is still high but my rb's have seemed to calm down a bit. If I cannot get a hold of used media is their anything else I can do to lower the ammo?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Breakbad said:


> Ok so I did a 50% water change and vaccumed the gravel. The water cleared up a little bit but is still kind of cloudy. The ammo level is still high but my rb's have seemed to calm down a bit. If I cannot get a hold of used media is their anything else I can do to lower the ammo?


ditch the chemicals. Dont feed for a couple days and do daily water changes of probably about 50% untill its resolved. You may want to retest for ammonia and nitrates and nitrites since they usualyl will rise together. Also only ammonia and nitrites are supposed to be zero, nitrates are recomended under 40ppm


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree with everything J-man said. The water change and cleaning the gravel were the best things you could do, to stabalise things. If the tank was setup for 4-5 weeks, it should be cycled. You had an ammonia spike from the debri in the gravel. J-man's advice has things heading in the right direction now. If it doesn't clear up by tomorrow, do another 25% water change...and make sure that the gravel is clean! 
Consider getting a undergravel filter with a powerhead...for future filtration. It'll act as a mechanical filter (gravel) and a biological (aerobic) filter...and the powerhead will add DO (dissolved oxygen) to your water. The UGF doesn't have to cover the entire bottom.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Fishnut2 said:


> I agree with everything J-man said. The water change and cleaning the gravel were the best things you could do, to stabalise things. If the tank was setup for 4-5 weeks, it should be cycled. You had an ammonia spike from the debri in the gravel. J-man's advice has things heading in the right direction now. If it doesn't clear up by tomorrow, do another 25% water change...and make sure that the gravel is clean!
> Consider getting a undergravel filter with a powerhead...for future filtration. It'll act as a mechanical filter (gravel) and a biological (aerobic) filter...and the powerhead will add DO (dissolved oxygen) to your water. The UGF doesn't have to cover the entire bottom.


 i would not get an ugf. If he doesnt clean the gravel enough now and its causign problems after only 4-5 weeks, a ugf will trap dibris and dirty the water rather then clean it. Just use some good hob filters


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

More HOB filters? He has 2 Emperor 400s on there now. They aren't getting the job done.


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## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Ammoquil plus took my ammonia from 8 to 0 in 15 minutes. Get some asap.


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## Guest (May 24, 2009)

Breakbad said:


> I have 4 rbp's in a 75g tank with 2 emp 400 filters. I left on vacation for 4 days and came back today and my water is very cloudy. My piranhas who are usually very shy and like to hide in the back are freaking out and coming to the front of the tank and even chasing my finger! My tank has been set up for about 4 to 5 weeks and the piranhas have been in there for about 2 weeks. I used many products including Tetra Safe Start, Stress Coat, Stress Zyme, Ammo Lock, and Aquarium Salt. My Ammo level is sky high and using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit it is very dark blue so it must be over 8.0 ppm. Is Ammo Lock enough to stop the ammonia and not kill my fish? Please any help would be appreciated I don't want my P's to die.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This problem is pretty obvious. You used Ammo Lock on a tank that hadn't cycled. Ammo Lock should ONLY be used on a tank that is well established with bacteria and food for that bacteria, during a time of crisis.

Your cloudy water is caused because there is an imbalance in the bacteria levels and there is a bacterial bloom in the water. There isn't enough bacteria to handle excess nutrients on the filter media because the Ammo Lock has caused the food source for the Nitrifying bacteria to be "locked" instead of used to properly cycle the tank.

*Here is what you can do now: *

-Small waterchanges on a daily/bi-daily process if possible. The goal of this is to reduce ammonia levels, and to also allow a mini cycle to happen.

-Stop using Ammo Lock for atleast 2 months.

-Try finding a product which feeds on bacteria. I've heard about Barley releasing some kind of chemical compound which eliminates or feeds on excess nutrients. It is commonly used to disturb the growth of algae but may be of use to you in this situation.

-Feed once every 3 days, watch to make sure they are eating all of the food. Do not feed tilapia as it flakes and create a lot of waste and oil. Switch to a Krill diet. Piranhas actually will eat vegetation as well, believe it or not.

-Use salt with water changes.

-Consider using Melafix as a precautionary medicine.

-Watch for "burns" on the fish.

-Make sure there is a lot of surface tension being broken. Fish need oxygen when ammonia levels are high.

-Do not use any other chemicals until water is stable (excluding water conditioner, obviously)


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## gyounadim (Apr 8, 2009)

So my water is crystal clear now but ammo level is still very high. I went to my lfs and they told me I should change all the carbon in my filters because with all that Ammo in my tank the carbon in the filters would be shot within a few days. They also told me to buy bio spira and put it in my tank after a 25% water change. I also bought some extra carbon to throw in the cartridges on the Emp 400's. Hopefully this helps and everything stabalizes.


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## gyounadim (Apr 8, 2009)

So the problem was def that my tank never properly cycled because now their is no more ammo in the tank but the nitrites have shot up. My p's seem very calm now and are eating very well. Should I be worried about the increase in nitrites? Should I continue to do 25% water changes every 2 days? Their is a ton of poo on the ground but I have been cleaning all leftover food but if my ammo is 0 should I not worry about the poo right now and just wait till the tank is cycled to do a water change? Thanks for all replies everyone really helped me out.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

Breakbad said:


> So the problem was def that my tank never properly cycled because now their is no more ammo in the tank but the nitrites have shot up. My p's seem very calm now and are eating very well. Should I be worried about the increase in nitrites? Should I continue to do 25% water changes every 2 days? Their is a ton of poo on the ground but I have been cleaning all leftover food but if my ammo is 0 should I not worry about the poo right now and just wait till the tank is cycled to do a water change? Thanks for all replies everyone really helped me out.


Hey , Your Filter is going through the Nitration Cycle , Where You will See the Nitrates and Nitrites 
shoot up. The Cloudy Water is a Bacterial Bloom in Your tank , should be gone soon. Just keep the lights
off.

and as For Changing the water It doesnt make a Difference I wouldnt change 25% every 2 Days.
Your tank isnt cloudy because its Dirty , its cloudy because of the bloom...

For future reference you should know that Its Very Painful for any Fish to be put through that cycle.
Especially since they are Your Prized P's Ya know?


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

under gravel filters are pointless!

also dont forget to use tetra aquasafe or something along the lines of that when doing your water changes. you dont want chlorine or chloramines in your tank to kill all the beneficial bacteria, well whats trying to grow anyways. good luck


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Dont add any more crap to your tank.
Just keep doing the the waterchanges every couple of days and everything should balance itself out.
Also make sure to be doing graval washes especially since you said you can see poop in your tank.

Keep things as simple as possible and you should be fine nevermind all those unecessary chemicals.
You didn't let your tank fully cycle but whats done is done.

Keep us posted and good luck :nod:


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