# Salt Water Tanks



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

i can't help but notice..most salt water tanks have to much stronger moving water than fresh water.. 
example..fresh water tanks can be calm..where salt water tanks can't?

just a curious question..
thanks


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

For sw live rock acts as the main bio filtration so you want moving water in your tank so the tanks like a big cannister filter.

There are alot of salt water corals and otehr things liek filter feeders that naturally rely on current to bring them food and without it they would die/


----------



## redbellyman21 (Jun 27, 2004)

almost all my fw tanks have around 5x flow or turnover whereas my sw is 10x minimum. But almost all my tanks have appropriately sized power heads since most fresh water fish have flow. i.e. piranhas! Piranhas live in the amazon which is not known for being a super slow river...

like clusterone said flow and turnover helps with natural filtration, but thats not to say my fowlr or reef is water moving so fast a fish cant swim or have slow or dead zones for rest.


----------



## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

both redbellyman and cluster one gave good answers.

also another reason would be that the ocean generally has a constant current swirling around so the fish are naturally used to swimming in a higher current. where as fish living in FW rivers have a much slowr and calmer current depending on their habitat.

also corals and other living organisms on the LR require a current for both food and for spawning.


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

thanks guys i was j/w cuz i have a lil 5 gallon SW and i'm thinking
damm this filters hella strong seems like the fish is struggling to move..lol
but then my guy at the pet shop says SW fish prefers strong currents over slow..
makes sense now..


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Whats your filter? You can have too strong of a current if its pushign the fish around but it seems sw fish in captivity are more used to strong currents.

My 15g has a hydor K1 and a sump return (about 250gph i think) so the water is always circulating. I only have soft corals and i know if i was to do hard corals i would probably want another powerhead. Sometimes it may seem like a lot but good current+light=a happy tank


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Whats your filter? You can have too strong of a current if its pushign the fish around but it seems sw fish in captivity are more used to strong currents.
> 
> My 15g has a hydor K1 and a sump return (about 250gph i think) so the water is always circulating. I only have soft corals and i know if i was to do hard corals i would probably want another powerhead. Sometimes it may seem like a lot but good current+light=a happy tank


got a penguin filter with the spinning wheels..anything from 5-20gal i thought it was to big
until the guy at the shop said..trust you're gonna need it..just the filter alone is good enough
i wont need any air tubing or nothing since its such a small tank..good lighting also thats all..

trying this out too see how good i am in SW b4 i go big..
since ive been doing FW my whole life..LOL..but daym SW cost $$$
just a 5gal is gonna cost me almost 300$ considering the live rocks and fish/coral and lights


----------



## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

If you havent already bought the equipment,

Try to start out with something at least 40gallons,

The 40 Breeder with a 2 bulb t5HO and a hang on the back power filter with a hydor 1 should get you started. ALso have the store drill a hole in the back for you and plug it up if your not in mood to start a sump.. It WILL be a future upgrade Because I know your going to want a sump if you dont think you want one.

Upgrading is hard man, Trust me,
Cost wise a 20g vs a 40g isnt that huge of a difference..
But its well worth the extra few dollars.


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

shiver905 said:


> If you havent already bought the equipment,
> 
> Try to start out with something at least 40gallons,
> 
> ...


true..i'm gonna see how this is b4 i think of any upgrading..thanks for the info


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

a penguin filter on a 5g doesnt seem like too much unless its one of the large models but be aware hob filters arnt the best for sw, If you use one make sure you keep it clean so it doesnt just trap debris. Some people just remove all media from it and just use it for current and others add cheato or other plants in it and add a small light over it. if you keep the media make sure to clean it farily regularly to keep it clean from debris


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> a penguin filter on a 5g doesnt seem like too much unless its one of the large models but be aware hob filters arnt the best for sw, If you use one make sure you keep it clean so it doesnt just trap debris. Some people just remove all media from it and just use it for current and others add cheato or other plants in it and add a small light over it. if you keep the media make sure to clean it farily regularly to keep it clean from debris


i suppose when i upgrade i'll get one of those canister filter or whatever you call it..


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Cannisters arnt the best for sw either.

For sw if anything get a good hob protein skimmer like an Remora. For a 5g you dont need a skimmer but if you upgrade to a larger tank you will probably want one. Hob filters and cannisters arnt very good for sw. Like i said earlier most people that use them keep them empty and use them for flow just because they had them laying around. If you want flow a 30$ powerhead is a lot better option then a 150$ cannister. If you need filtration a skimmer is a ton better then cannisters or hobs. A good small skimmer is something like a remora and will run you about 150$+ which is farily comparible to cannisters but will work a ton better then any cannister. A skimmer will remove waste from your system that you didnt even know there was while a cannister just traps it and lets it rot untill you clean it.

You dont need a skimmer on a 5g and i wouldnt recomend one but if you upgrade deffinity get a protein skimmer and not a cannister filter


----------



## redbellyman21 (Jun 27, 2004)

we got you on the site to help out, but the filter choices you have are looking at it from a FW point of view. Saltwater your live rock is a big filter so give it flow and remember some SW tanks run solo on fuges Meaning all natural filtration options.  but back to why 5 gallon is the worst for beginner, a 5 gallon tank can go from bad to worse in less than 5 seconds between salinity phosphate swings nitrate swings and calcium levels alkalinity ph all these things that are not as alarming in a FW tank will discourage you from ever trying to do SW again. Skimmer is awesome idea having a sump awesome idea even if rubbermaid or home built and remember that we all want you to embrace SW so if we seem negative or like we are ball busting WE ARE NOT! we simply have had experience in bad swings in SW and know how we can lose all interest when problems arise.

so a catchup no canister, HOB are ok IF you clean thoroughly regularly like 2-3 times a month but that is a failing approach to start. GO BIG or go home.. lol so 30-+ gallons would be a great start. We are all here to help and just dont want to see you kill your interest or passion for the hobby


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

thanks guys makes alot of sense...
i suppose im already looking to spend around 500+ if i ever upgrade..which would probably
be in a 40 long..or so..nothing too big...

oh and i forgot to mention
i buy my water already cycle and ready to go..
thats why i decided to do a lil 5gal..lol

still learning slowly...


----------



## nataz (Mar 31, 2006)

Ballistic,

If you are really thinking about upgrading I would search for a local reef club. Theres always someone upgrading or getting out of the hobby. With that said you could probably grab some good equipment and other things you might need for less. Also, It always helps to have others in the area into the same thing incase you get into a jam or just to trade or swap with. (frag and other equip)
Not sure if you already know. The smaller the tank usually is harder, the bigger the tank the more forgiving. (water par. tend to be easier to control and more time to correct a issue if you have one.)

But, to each his own.


----------



## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

ballistic said:


> thanks guys makes alot of sense...
> i suppose im already looking to spend around 500+ if i ever upgrade..which would probably
> be in a 40 long..or so..nothing too big...
> 
> ...


???? do you mean r/o water?


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

****** said:


> Ballistic,
> 
> If you are really thinking about upgrading I would search for a local reef club. Theres always someone upgrading or getting out of the hobby. With that said you could probably grab some good equipment and other things you might need for less. Also, It always helps to have others in the area into the same thing incase you get into a jam or just to trade or swap with. (frag and other equip)
> Not sure if you already know. The smaller the tank usually is harder, the bigger the tank the more forgiving. (water par. tend to be easier to control and more time to correct a issue if you have one.)
> ...


thanks..got a site? i'll try this...see if i can get any deals..


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

It depends where your from but look for some local forums or clubs. Craigslist or kijiji or any local buy and sell sites are good places to score equipment.


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> It depends where your from but look for some local forums or clubs. Craigslist or kijiji or any local buy and sell sites are good places to score equipment.


what kind of filters do you advise for a 20gal long..thats what imma do next..anything bigger to much$$$ 
ehiem filters??? i was aiming for a powerhead and 2 huge penguin filters...to make it easy...???


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Get a skimmer if you want to make it easy. A large hob can actually make it harder.

Id look into a ac remora or tunze nano. They both sell for about 150-200$ new but you may be able to find one used for about 100$.

A skimmer and powerhead is all you really need. Eheim filters are nice for fw tanks but for sw you are MUCH better off spending money of a good skimmer (don't just buy any skimmer get a good quality one liek a remora or tunze nano as alot of skimmers on the market are fairily crappy.

For just a 20g tank you dont NEED a skimmer but it will keep your tank alot cleaner if you do get one and it will mean you dont have to do as many water changes. I have 25g running with no skimmer fine but a good skimmer would help. If you dont have a skimmer you just do more water changes. If your willing to spend money on 2 large hobs i'd seriously suggest you dont and save a bit more for a skimmer.

FW and sw are differnt. A fw "filter' doesnt do much in sw aquariums. You can run a sucsessful tank with just powerheads so don't think you need a hob filter as you are probably better off without one.


----------



## ballistic (Dec 26, 2007)

nice...if anything i'll probably just get a small ehiem filter plus another bio wheel filter..since its a 20 gal i wont need much
i'll look into it..tho..thanks again..


----------

