# New underwater photos taken



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

In a couple photos you can see where the S. sanchezi's (4 of them) have been snacking on all the Pygo's fins (and each other!).


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

I love the look of that setup Frank, I'm guessing this is your 150 gallon tub?


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

If the was a "Tub of the month" contest, you would take it hands down


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## pamonster (Jun 26, 2003)

sweet


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## Joga Bonito (Oct 30, 2004)

nice


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## Serygo (May 17, 2004)

if thats the tub then thats one hella big tub.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Yah that's the TUB, I could litterly sit in it! Those are big tree branches and rocks. I'm waiting for the shipment of water lillies that will be floated in there. With the heater, the water stays constant at 79F now. They also get direct sunlight during the day which has colored up the fishes more.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

More tub photos, including one of Godzilla in his 125g Tank. Look closely at the fishes. Never assume they are "pristine" because fin biting is common in this tub.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

ok maybe i sound dumb, but wat is a tub, is that like a bathtub lol.is it an indoor pond?


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

I love them tubs. nice pics too


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

dam nice tub shots
what camera are u using


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Tibs Posted Today, 08:22 PM
> ok maybe i sound dumb, but wat is a tub, is that like a bathtub lol.is it an indoor pond?


You can read about it here:

150g Ag Tub


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Found this bird sitting outside my window on a twig. Nice color. Also more tub photos.


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## pirayaboy (Feb 24, 2004)

sweet..


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## JAC (Jan 19, 2004)

Nice setup, a litle too murky for my taste but nice nonetheless, what size is that rhom?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The rhomb is 12 inches TL exactly.

Murky? That's the color of the Amazon.


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## jahnke31 (Dec 4, 2003)

that is awesome!!!! great idea!


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## Davo (Jan 29, 2004)

cool study


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Photo of the TUB, seen are 3 florescent fixures with 2 bulbs (40W) each. Ivy surrounding tub is for effects only and gives the fish a surface perimeter. The top black container is for the moon light.


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## Fresh2salt (Jul 16, 2004)

nice pics. what size tub is that ???


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Here is the 150g Tub outline. Please forgive the crude drawing, but it gives you the general idea where everyone is hiding. Majority of large Pygocentrus are in the open area. The planted area consists of small plants, water lillies and tall grasses. I'll take a photo tomorrow and show you what was added in the last few days.


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## Nethius (Feb 23, 2003)

Cool pics!

Looks like the S Sanchezi grabbed all the nice "cavey" spots, while the Nattereri/Cariba are grouped in (what looks like) less crowded areas.


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

Very impressed with the tub shots. Thanks for sharing.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

More Amazonian tub views of plants and underwater scene. Loamy? yes, typical of some Amazon rivers. At least here I can control the amount of light and how loamy it can get.







You can also see an S. sanchezi in its rock cave an a P. nattereri in the distance.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Last 2 pics for today:


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

double post


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

ill hand it to u that is one amazing set up

btw i still want those ternetzi


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Nethius Posted Today, 05:17 AM
> Cool pics!
> 
> Looks like the S Sanchezi grabbed all the nice "cavey" spots, while the Nattereri/Cariba are grouped in (what looks like) less crowded areas.


There's actually more room than my drawing shows. Sometimes the medium sized ternetzi or cariba will go to the outer layers of the root/rock formation and hide behind there. But they seem to alternate and adjust their locations.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Very nice Frank.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks guys for the







's up. I gotta put this 1 more photo in. Its unretouched and believe it or not in real life, you can see the fish clearer than this photo is allowing. That is sunlight from a window just behind the tub. It gets direct sunlight every morning (except during rains) until about 1 pm. This is as close as I can photograph it and not lose much of what I'm trying to state. I think the problem is with the plastic container (foggy) the camera is in. I need to find a suitable glass container to put the camera in.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

hastatus said:


> .* I need to find a suitable glass container to put the camera in.*
> [snapback]972375[/snapback]​


how bout a little five gal tank, i rember peacock useing aten gal in his pond once


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I have an available ten gallon, but I'm not sure that it will work to bulky. I've gotten an idea to buy a tall square clear glass flower vase that might work. I've seen some in the dollar store that could fit the bill.

I have another 3 1/2g glass container, but don't remember where I put it.







The plexiglas I'm using now is scratchy and foggy. As it stands now I have to use 1 hand to push the container down while positioning the camera inside to snap the photo. It ain't easy.


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## red&black (Feb 25, 2005)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> If the was a "Tub of the month" contest, you would take it hands down
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol


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## spec-v (Feb 27, 2005)

I like the way your water is kinda murky it gives the tank that natural river feel. thanks for posting the pics frank your tub rocks


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Test photos using a different clear plastic container. I still think glass may be best.


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## NegativeCamber (Nov 29, 2004)

Are you ever worried that they might jump out??


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The water level is 4 inches from the top and all the years I've kept piranhas, I have never had one jump out. I've heard other people have this trouble, but I have never personally experienced it.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

A P. cariba heading for the rocky caves. Some of caves are seen (upper right of photo) including an S. sanchezi on the bottom left corner. This guy likes to hang out by his tree root. Last photo for tonight.


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## JorgeRemigio (Mar 31, 2005)

That "Monster" is on my dreams every night...the good dreams!!!!

How big is the Tank for the Monster Rhombeus?


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## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

that bird was cool, i thought it was a western meadowlark but they have a black v on their throat, anyway, cool pics! i like underwater pics.


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

freaking awesome frank!! my hats off to you. i want a tub lol


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## fredweezy (May 27, 2004)

That is awesome, you are truely an O.G..


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks for comments one and all.


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

very cool post frank, ever think of using one of those disposable under water cameras?

I have before, just haven't had the film developed yet. I will if I remember soon and post the pics.


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

thats awsome.


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

Awsome Set up


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> traumatic Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM
> very cool post frank, ever think of using one of those disposable under water cameras?
> 
> I have before, just haven't had the film developed yet. I will if I remember soon and post the pics.


Yes, I thought about it and its a good suggestion. The only problem would be taking photos blind as I would be unable to visually point through the lens. So I could wind up with a bunch of blurry photos, or worse missing photo clipped fish. I've got a 3 1/2 gallon tank I've located (all glass), once I clean it up, I'll see about using that. What I really need to find is a deep glass flower vase (clear) 12inches deep. I saw those awhile back in a store in a city far away. I've got to find time to locally look for one. The one I saw seemed perfect for the camera.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Very interesting Frank!









Looks like a good simulation of the Rio Orinoco, I'm curious what your pH is in that tub.








(I add peat to my filters to acquire the tea-colored lower pH... looks like the wood maybe doing the job in your tub?)


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## Nethius (Feb 23, 2003)

hastatus said:


> The water level is 4 inches from the top and all the years I've kept piranhas, I have never had one jump out. I've heard other people have this trouble, but I have never personally experienced it.
> [snapback]973028[/snapback]​


I've had one jump out. It was my fault tho, I forgot to cover up a 4" by 4" space in the front of my tank. And the water was up to the top of the tank. Luckily I was home, and heard him flopping around. He landed right next to my cat, who didn't seem to care what so ever, good thing too, that could have ended up bad for the cat or the piranha!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I know its a strong possibility. The room is isolated and my grandkids know they are not premitted in that room without adult escort. I am (in the future) going to install a plexiglass shield around the tub to act as a barrier. For now the ivy is doing it or at least showing the fish where the water line ends. The only splashing has been their coming to surface for a gulp of air and its startled me a couple of times as I was sitting there studying their interaction.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Frank, what's your pH in that tub?


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## Killduv (Jun 1, 2004)

Damm this is wicked!! Good pictures!


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Pretty awesome frank. But isnt the tub just a little crowded?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I'll take a pH reading later today and post it here. As for "overcrowded" if this were a normal sized aquarium, yes, it would be crowded, but the tub is oval and very wide allowing a much larger dispersed area for the fishes and what is in it.

Thanks for the observation and concern.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

frank do you have 21 p's in a 150gallon tub (got that from your drawing)? Dont you think that you are overcrowding the p's. Or is providing more hidding places help out the p's? Just wondering.... I myself am getting an 180gallon tank and if providing more hidding places to my p's, would I be able to have more p's. Or is it that you tank has a large surface area, those you can provide more room for p's.

BTW great looking set-up


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

its more about the footprint than the gallonage.. as he explained in the previous post


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> its more about the footprint than the gallonage.. as he explained in the previous post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's way I asked


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> 33truballa33 Posted Today, 11:31 AM
> its more about the footprint than the gallonage.. as he explained in the previous post
> 
> 
> ...


PH: 6.6


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Thanks, I was just wondering how it compared to my 150 gallon pygo tank with peat... mine is right around 6.4 at the present.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I do regular (every 3rd day) water changes which helps it stay close to that. If I let the water changes go (Oregon water pH averages 6.8 to 7.0 depending where you are) it could drop below your rating.


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Well Frank I had no clue it was 4 feet in diameter. Thats huge. Its like a kiddie swimming pool. I am very concerned in the well being of your fish cause I love all P's and dont want to see anything happen to them. LOL just kidding I know you probably take better care of yours than I do mine. I love you man.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Not a problem. I agree with you we should take good care of our fishes. In a test tub like this, I have to watch carefully all the occupants are getting along. With fin biters its a given they will do what they do naturally. But if I see a situation where one fish is disabled or on the verge of being eaten beyond the fins they are quickly removed. For example, the S. maculatus was removed when things got to dicey between it and the S. sanchezi. My hypothesis is they are natural enemies as S. sanchezi devoted its time to constantly biting that species more than any other. It would actually search it out. So the that fish is nearly healed, but doubt I will introduce it back in.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

All this pH talk has brought up a few questions I have, so I started a thread in the "Water Chemistry" category, so as to not deviate from the original topic here.
I really want to get to the bottom of some questions that have been nagging me.
Thanks


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## markley02 (Jul 13, 2004)

I hate to de-rail this thread even more than it already has, but I was wondering if the fin nips will have any influence on the pygo's growth. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you cut the tips of your hair doesn't it promote more growth? When you take the tips off of plants it also stimulates new growth. Could the constant fin nips make the pygo's grow bigger and faster? I had a tank of 1 s. maculatus, 3 p. nattereri, and 1 p. piraya. It seemed as if the pygo's had an increase in growth. I wish I would have taken measurments to put more "fact" to this situation.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> markley02 Posted Today, 10:20 AM
> I hate to de-rail this thread even more than it already has, but I was wondering if the fin nips will have any influence on the pygo's growth. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you cut the tips of your hair doesn't it promote more growth? When you take the tips off of plants it also stimulates new growth. Could the constant fin nips make the pygo's grow bigger and faster? I had a tank of 1 s. maculatus, 3 p. nattereri, and 1 p. piraya. It seemed as if the pygo's had an increase in growth. I wish I would have taken measurments to put more "fact" to this situation.


I don't know the answer to that one, only what happens to the fins. RE: The fins, chronic fin biting can cause the pigment to disperse leaving it hyaline. The can also cause abnormal regeneration of the fins into odd shapes. If the bite goes to the hypural plate (the bony ridge where the tail fin begins) then you could wind up with a fish with no tail or one with 1/2 a tail growing. I looking over the specimens in the "tub" majority are fin bit including the S. sanchezi. While the bites to the fins are not fatal, it does promote stress, but doubt (in my opinion) will promote growth of the body. I have not seen any evidence (so far) of that except the S. sanchezi getting fat and opportunistic on each others and the Pygo's fins.

I added target fishes (white cloud mountain minnows) and finally added 100 goldfish (something I detest as food). The S. sanchezi largely ignored the feeders (by not trying to eat them) and instead stayed after the fins of Pygocentrus, even when the gold fish was swimming just inches from the mouth of S. sanchezi. I just do not see how anyone can claim a blanket statement of this being "successful" since fin biting is the norm. As it stands now, I have only seen 3 of the 5 S. sanchezi in the last 3 or 4 days. I'm still trying to find out of the 2 missing are dead and eaten or just hiding.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

While this photo may belong (or a better one at that!) belongs in P-breeding, I wanted to share it in pictures. There has been on-going pre-breeding behavior with the 6 and 7 in. P. cariba. They are very dark and their bellies black.

Unfortunately, without disturbing them in the area they have picked, this is the best I can do for now. I'm watching carefully for anything that looks like eggs. But for now, its unknown, but the behavior is not.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

And I'm not sure what those small round things are in the photo.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Now that I teased you all, here are the underwater photos. You can see for yourself what these characins are doing.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

About an hour ago, I discovered a head of a large S. sanchezi being picked at and eaten by 2 small P. nattereri (3 inch TL). I'll attempt to extract the head (its lodged between a rock and the planter), take some photos and post here later if possible.


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## Playboydontcurr (Feb 24, 2004)

thats a pretty cool setup, how much does it cost to set something like that up?


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## RedBelly Dom (Mar 22, 2005)

thats pretty awsome


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## RedBelly Dom (Mar 22, 2005)

ur piranhas must be really happy.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

All that remains:


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Eggs anyone? I have what appear to be eggs that ternetzi have let loose on the tub floor. They are the only species that do not move from this spot. On the other end of the tub (impossible to find a way to take a photo) is 2 P. cariba displaying the same thing. The ternetzi do not use the spawning material. In fact, I may pull it out because the last couple of times the larger P's nearly got their teeth stuck on it trying to free themselves. Not a very good material for them.


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## Bucktooth RedBelly (Apr 13, 2005)

Pretty cool pictures man


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## FIRE Newt MIKE 767 (Apr 11, 2005)

nice pond but why is your water yellow


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> FIRE Newt MIKE 767 Posted Today, 02:12 PM
> nice pond but why is your water yellow


Its underwater, filtered by sunlight and the pH value (6.6).


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