# Piranha Experiment



## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

Theres this well which has constant supply of freshwater through underground streams, I wanted to drop in a Pygo nattereri in this well having a Diameter of 8feet and 40feet depth. It already has a lot of big ass Tilapia (10")and some kinda eel. Lot of moss and natural stuff growing in this well. Possible source of food for a piranha would be insects, worms, fins, etc.
The Red crrently residing in my tank is just over 2" and doesnt have a lotof underbelly color. Will it return to its wild coloration if I let him grow by himself in this well?


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## 0123 (May 18, 2004)

dont know how well it would do

but it doesnt sound smart to put a 2" rb with any 10" fish...


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## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

It is NOT a good Idea to release ANY pet fish into the wild.

It can have harmfull effects on the natural ecosystem if not the Piranha itself...

Seriously, you REALLY shouldn't do it... keep em in the aquarium


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## 0123 (May 18, 2004)

Civic Disobedience said:


> It is NOT a good Idea to release ANY pet fish into the wild.
> 
> It can have harmfull effects on the natural ecosystem if not the Piranha itself...
> 
> Seriously, you REALLY shouldn't do it... keep em in the aquarium


 true... i didnt see the streams part

i thought it was just like a pond type thing or something like that...

theres just another good reason you shouldnt do it though!!


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

thee's no way that the PIranha can escape from that well, trust me. And i was planning to put him there when he grows to 4.5 ". I've done such an experiment with an Angelfish with amazing results. Was hesitant to try this with a piranha, but am eager to try.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

how big is the well and how will u find him'

and you will be adding parasited from your tank to a water body that never had it before
and vice-a-versa when he gets back into the tank


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

The well is 40 years old! I'll fish him out man, there's no other way i think he could be removed. Regarding parasite, its a risk I'm wiling to take. (its not like I'm not going to quarantine him), besides you get medicines for that stuff too. I've introduced(but not removed) many a fish in that well before, they grow much more rapidly than a tank environment, eg a Tin Foil Barb which had no red oin its fins turned out to grow very intensely pigmented fins , i could see them right from above.


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## FootClanSkates (Apr 25, 2004)

In my experience RBPs get a lot more colorful when in ponds. I had an indoor pond of about 1200 gallons with a lot of fish, including 1rbp, giant tilapia, gar, red tail catfish (24"), koi, 9 red ear sliders, a 10" tiger oscar, and a few other misc. fish. He came out with great color and still has is 6 months later.

Oh, and I was sure to feed them a lot. The P would come up for pellets.


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## 0123 (May 18, 2004)

does india have a big difference in night/day temp? that could probly cause problems also... where that would definately be a great place for ANY fish to grow, how exactly cant he escape if streams flow through it? is there like some kind of cover or some sh*t? i dont understand this lol sry


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

the streams are at the very dark bottom and are very slow but constant and are more like cappilaries. And in my opinion Piranha dont dwell that deep, and he certainly wont try to travel a muddy stream. Climate is quite similar to mexican climate, also it doesnt get very cold at nights and there's 4 months of monsoon after a very hot dry summer.


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## Lonald (Jan 10, 2004)

the streams are probly very small underground streams that it wouldnt be able to fit into?


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

The whole point is to see whether such a 'natural' habitat does wonders to a blandly colored Piranha. I wont do this if I have to spoon feed him regularly. I think hunger will definitely drive him into snapping at anything he can lay his jaws on.


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## 0123 (May 18, 2004)

PygoManiac said:


> The whole point is to see whether such a 'natural' habitat does wonders to a blandly colored Piranha.


 uhhh basically you want him to look like alot of wild caught fish do: more colorfull and large right?

its most likely going to do it... you are basically putting him in a mini amazon river (in a way... cause its gotta be ALOT of water for sure....)

also what about your water surely theres some difference being outdoors (ok sorry bout i know nothing about india is it like lots of trees, desert, or what?) cause i know some leaves can lower/raise the ph and all that


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PygoManiac said:


> the streams are at the very dark bottom and are very slow but constant and are more like cappilaries. And in my opinion Piranha dont dwell that deep, and he certainly wont try to travel a muddy stream. Climate is quite similar to mexican climate, also it doesnt get very cold at nights and there's 4 months of monsoon after a very hot dry summer.


 I'm sorry but I think you are mistaken about piranhas. For starters they are bottom dwelling fish, yeah they probably will "dwell that deep". Secondly, you don't think they'll try and navigate a muddy stream? The amazon has some of the darkets, muddiest waters that piranhas call home. Lastly you're talking about an ideal environment as far as conditions for piranha to thrive, water that never gets very cold and even experiences a rainy season like in it's natural habitat. This is seriously not a responsible idea


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

the streams are very narrow and numerous, like I said they arent like a hollow pipe, more like the water just seeps through the ground. And as far as I've seen no fish I've dropped in for experimentation has ever lost its way out of the well. And most of the time they never went right down to the 40 feet bottom. 40 feet is a way too deep.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

I don't think it's a good idea. Too many if's involved in him getting out into the wild, then you'd be responsible for that. It's not something to take lightly, and it's the reason why they're so resticted here in the states. Just keep him in the tank.


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## Mack (Oct 31, 2004)

Keep him in your tank -- it's experiments like that that make them illegal.


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## camotekid (Sep 21, 2003)

Mack said:


> Keep him in your tank -- it's experiments like that that make them illegal.


 BINGO!!!


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## jan (Apr 24, 2004)

camotekid said:


> Mack said:
> 
> 
> > Keep him in your tank -- it's experiments like that that make them illegal.
> ...


 Nothing more to say, but it's kinda interesting to see what eventually will happen with it's colour and behaviour.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

hey it's your fish. i think it would get far too cold for the piranha to swim all the way down to the 40 foot depth so i wouldn't worry about escape. it's your fish, do what you want. make sure you post results.


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## carisma02uk (Aug 1, 2004)

there are some very mixed posts on this one.
bu ti would say i think the presure of 40ft down and the temp would kill a lil fish or even implode it. so my suggestion is that you try if you realy want to but i think he would get eaten by the eel you mentioned in your post. i woke up this morning with my eel wraped around my filter try to eat my 6'' pacu just bear in mind that the eel 15'' long and diamiter is around 2cm. try it and lets see what hapens there would not be an out break of piranha because there are no others to breed with.

if you do it make sure you add resluts.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

And people wonder why the pirana gets banned.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

hastatus said:


> And people wonder why the pirana gets banned.


 But this guy is in India.


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## Dragster (Aug 3, 2004)

Just make your own pond in your garden or something,else you may find yourself with a hefty fine and maybe even prison.
Its like setting a Lion free in the local park.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> rchan11 Posted on Nov 2 2004, 05:06 PM
> QUOTE (hastatus @ Nov 2 2004, 05:04 PM)
> And people wonder why the pirana gets banned.
> 
> *But this guy is in India. *


Pay particular attention to the BOLD area.



> Fears over import of exotic fish, shrimp - Potential harm to domestic species
> R. Balaji
> 
> CHENNAI, Aug. 29
> ...


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## KeemCambell (Jun 7, 2004)

why not just keep it in the tank, so u can watch it grow? or jus buy a wild caught one


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Frank


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## SpAzZy (Mar 30, 2004)

like they said, i woudlnt' do it unless you had a pond that was your own, in your own backyard that was 100% not connected to any source of natural water outside of the pond. even if it's just 1 rbp, if someone else were to catch your piranha and they were to get hurt, i'm sure it will lead to big problems with importing of piranhas. recently, someone caught a pacu that was monsterous from a nearby lake here in nj and they called it a piranha. the authorities later asked george from sharkaquarium to identify it and before he even saw the pictures he told them it was a pacu because there is no way a piranha could over winter here in jersey. if it was a piranha, i'm sure they would have tried to put new jersey on the illegal state list..


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## mantis (May 16, 2003)

''please do not release unwanted pet fish''- OPEFE

It sound like a cool idea but, keep it in your tank man


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## saminoski (Jun 3, 2004)

i go to a hotspring in n/w colorado every winter and in the river out side the resort there was a huge mud inbankment blocking off a part of the river that contained a "hot spot." someone had built this mud tub to contain tons of tropical fish, no piranha's though(sounds funny but apparently the hotspring kept the water ideal) . every year i came back and the fish grew bigger and bigger untill one year i came back and they were all gone. i asked the manager of the resort what happend and he said that they had been finding tons of dead rainbow trout down stream. i guess the gaming dep linked the dead trout to the tropical fish and so removed them. now, no more dead trout. i dont know all the details, but i would be leery of releasing anything in to the water supply. just my $.02


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## William's (Aug 23, 2004)

My opinion:

I am against releasing pets in the wild but any remarks,
It's a well so normally it's not connected with any river or pond.
Normally the fresh water is groundwater not a pipe,canal,stream etc.
In my opinion this is safer than diggin' a pond in your yard.
Imagine heavy rainfalls and your whole garden get flooded...at this moment your fish escaped allready.The entrance of a well is normally some feet above the ground,so you need alleady a heavy flood to let them escape.
You want to put there only one fish so the risk of invation is rather minor
and you are going to take it out again after.

If you do it sure send some pics becaus i think the growt and coloration will be
stunnin'

greetz

William


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## Malice (Feb 19, 2004)

i wouldnt put in a pygo, i would throw in a good sera species... might last a little longer..


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Evidently you are all not getting the point. For example; in Monkeyland, Florida a population of S. rhombeus was discovered in a pool where they had been breeding, left there by a person keeping them as pets. This helped lead the authorities to ban them in Florida.

In Hawaii, a population of P. nattereri was found from a fellow keeping in a pool. This too led to the fishes being banned. Throughout the world, there are plenty of reports of piranas being discovered whether intentionally or unintentially introduced. Fact is, people are afraid of them and that will not change in the near future.

Anyway you folks color it, regardless if its a closed pool or not, if you want to create public hysteria and cause your fishes to be banned, just put them "outdoors" and you'll see how quickly the authorities will go into action.

I'm done.


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## ReDraGon-> (May 24, 2004)

hastatus said:


> Evidently you are all not getting the point. For example; in Monkeyland, Florida a population of S. rhombeus was discovered in a pool where they had been breeding, left there by a person keeping them as pets. This helped lead the authorities to ban them in Florida.
> 
> In Hawaii, a population of P. nattereri was found from a fellow keeping in a pool. This too led to the fishes being banned. Throughout the world, there are plenty of reports of piranas being discovered whether intentionally or unintentially introduced. Fact is, people are afraid of them and that will not change in the near future.
> 
> ...


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

Frank this isnt a "public" pool, or a lake or anything. Its a well which is on our property(My Uncle's). No one has nothing to do with this well, ocassionally someone like me just watches from the top. It is locked out by a concrete perimeter on one side and our building on the other. 
Releasing a single Piranha into this well isnt what I'd call releasing him in the wild. The well was artificially created and isnt categorised as a natural water body.


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## Lex (Oct 17, 2004)

you better take lots and lots of pics if and when you do this...


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

I can defineatly see the fascination of putting a piranha into a 'almost natural environment' ... however, I think the possible consequences are too high. Keeping any exotic pet is not a right, its a responsibility. Just my 2 cents.










Joe.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> PygoManiac Posted on Nov 3 2004, 04:59 AM
> Frank this isnt a "public" pool, or a lake or anything. Its a well which is on our property(My Uncle's). No one has nothing to do with this well, ocassionally someone like me just watches from the top. It is locked out by a concrete perimeter on one side and our building on the other.
> Releasing a single Piranha into this well isnt what I'd call releasing him in the wild. The well was artificially created and isnt categorised as a natural water body.


You're not comprehending my statement, so I will clear it up more for you. It doesn't matter if it is PRIVATE land or PUBLIC land. If the critter is introduced as a non-native fish, that is illegal in most countries. You're argument (if it went into a court) would hold even less water than your well. Please go back and read the article from your country. This is not what you do in the privacy of inside your home, but what you are introducing outdoors. Even if its a single pirana, it doesn't belong outside. It is an aquarium fish. Key word is "aquarium". Your well would not qualify as an "aquarium". But that would be up to your lawyers to argue if it comes to that. I'm just trying to get you to understand it is irresponsible what you are attempting to do with the end results of costing other hobbyists the priviledge of owning piranas just because you want to "color up" your fish more.


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## Pipthebrit (Oct 30, 2004)

Hastatus is right man, sorry, but it is to irrisponsible. To many things could go wrong. You can't keep a good enough eye on the well. Yeah it's on private land, but what if a family member gets hurt messing around with the well. Accidents do happen, and the least expected situations always seem to happen when you least expect them. Nature has a very funny way of pulling a fast one on your ass when you're not ready for it. Just my thoughts


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

Hmm, You've got a good point Frank. Anyways I dont plan to do any such thing for atleast the next 6 months. Then again I havent heard ppl voicing negative remarks against outdoor ponds in their backyards being used as piranha ponds. Anyway this thread was to ask experts whether such a habitat will make a fish look 'wilder' or not.


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## blantwon (Oct 20, 2004)

absolutely terrible idea. i see no chance of the fish escaping because underwater "streams" arent really streams, they are just a part of the watershed, just water seeping through the ground. but a piranha may have a disease or parasite that _could_ travel through underground streams. not to mention the fact that if anybody found out about it you would get in big trouble and might be responsible for piranhas becoming illegal in india.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Pygo - Aside from the fact that you still shouldn't do this, yes they will most likely look "wilder" with a steady supply of constantly changed fresh water


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> PygoManiac Posted on Nov 3 2004, 06:53 AM
> Hmm, You've got a good point Frank. Anyways I dont plan to do any such thing for atleast the next 6 months. *Then again I havent heard ppl voicing negative remarks against outdoor ponds in their backyards being used as piranha ponds. Anyway this thread was to ask experts whether such a habitat will make a fish look 'wilder' or not. *


1. Its very well known my stance on releasing pet fish into non-native environments. I don't encourage it and I totally disagree with ANY hobbists doing it to prove a point or amateurish attempts of making an experiment. If I don't always comment on backyard pond experiments is because these hobbyists reap what they sow. From a lawsuit to having their fish banned. Again, please do not release unwanted pet fish and that includes WANTED as well.

The idea that the term "experiment" is being used is scientific term meaning you are using rules and stringent guidelines within ethics. None of which I read from your remarks indicate ethics. I'm not attacking you, just advising you that your crossing over the line into irresponsibility.

2. You wanted an expert opinion on whether or not such a habitat will make a fish look "wilder" or not, the answer is that it will color up more and depending on the type of water in your well, the sun and the diet, it will have some effect. You have your answer now, whether that will keep you from proceding is entirely up to you.


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## saminoski (Jun 3, 2004)

frank your the man


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

hastatus said:


> > PygoManiac Posted on Nov 3 2004, 06:53 AM
> > Hmm, You've got a good point Frank. Anyways I dont plan to do any such thing for atleast the next 6 months. *Then again I havent heard ppl voicing negative remarks against outdoor ponds in their backyards being used as piranha ponds. Anyway this thread was to ask experts whether such a habitat will make a fish look 'wilder' or not. *
> 
> 
> ...










Keeping him in my tank for life.


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## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

hastatus said:


> Evidently you are all not getting the point. For example; in Monkeyland, Florida a population of S. rhombeus was discovered in a pool where they had been breeding, left there by a person keeping them as pets. This helped lead the authorities to ban them in Florida.
> 
> In Hawaii, a population of P. nattereri was found from a fellow keeping in a pool. This too led to the fishes being banned. Throughout the world, there are plenty of reports of piranas being discovered whether intentionally or unintentially introduced. Fact is, people are afraid of them and that will not change in the near future.
> 
> ...


 Thats is NOT releasing them into the wild... they are contained in/on the owners land, I think that is a crock... a pool has NOTHING, nitto, EL- Zilcho with the wild or enviorment, it just goes to show how the Government likes to take away our rights or freedomes any excuse they get.. a pool is private, more or less a large Aquarium if you see forth, as it's yours...

scott


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

scottyd said:


> a pool is private, more or less a large Aquarium if you see forth, as it's yours...


 A pool may be private in the sense that you own it, but it's not private in the sense that it affords you any protection as far as privacy. Whatever path that is used for common traffic is perfectly legal for anyone to enter, even if the area is gated. What that means is, whatever route a postman, or deliverymany would take to knock on your door is also legal for a cop to enter. Anything he may see is considered "plain sight" and there's not much you can do to fight it.

In almost all states the surrounding area around a home known as the cutralage isn't afforded privacy rights either. So if you have a fence around your property and someone can see your pond over or through your fence you're screwed too.

That being said, the original poster is in India where I'm sure he doesn't have as many rights concerning privacy as we do. All it takes is one person that doesn't like you or what you're doing, or one cop to see your experiment and you're in a world of hurt. All that just because you want your fish more colorful.


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## Phtstrat (Sep 15, 2004)

Give it time to get some more color. Putting it in such an unnatural environment will just kill it or make it even more bland.

I wouldn't do it if I were you.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Just for the sake of curiousity, how are the water perameters in your well?


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> That being said, the original poster is in India where I'm sure he doesn't have as many rights concerning privacy as we do. All it takes is one person that doesn't like you or what you're doing, or one cop to see your experiment and you're in a world of hurt. All that just because you want your fish more colorful.


 As convenient as it is to envision India as being less private than you because it's the middle east or whatever rationale you used, Piranhas are not illegal in India. He wouldn't get into a world of hurt, Frank is just encouraging the he doesn't have it out in the open because people may over react and ban the fish.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> scrappydoo said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, the original poster is in India where I'm sure he doesn't have as many rights concerning privacy as we do. All it takes is one person that doesn't like you or what you're doing, or one cop to see your experiment and you're in a world of hurt. All that just because you want your fish more colorful.
> ...


 I'm talking about India not having the same rights we do against "Unreasonable Search and Seizure". It's a different country with different laws and their S&S laws are alot different then ours.

Just because P's aren't illegal in India doesn't mean it's legal to have them outside in a well, in a watersource that other people may be using. Or in a place that might possibly spread and cause widespread damage to the local ecology. And saying that a bunch of guys on the internet told me it won't harm anything isn't going to hold up in court.


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> scrappydoo said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, the original poster is in India where I'm sure he doesn't have as many rights concerning privacy as we do. All it takes is one person that doesn't like you or what you're doing, or one cop to see your experiment and you're in a world of hurt. All that just because you want your fish more colorful.
> ...


hehe, you are wrong. They are illegal here. Very few lfss keep Piranhas for sale, they're all stashed away in the dealers' home tanks. I got mine from a friend who owns an lfs. 80% hobbyists here prefer community fish, 5% prefer exotics like Discus, 15% prefer to keep Piranha.


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## Phtstrat (Sep 15, 2004)

Why don't you just make an indoor pond from water siphoned from the well? This would have the same effect as actually putting it in the well, would it not? If the water parameters down there don't kill it, the temperatures surely will.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I should add one more statement here in light of the fact *there will always be a few that just don't get it.*

During the summer we had an incident here in Oregon where a live red-bellied pirana (P. nattereri) was captured in Portland creek that was closed off from the main river. The media got a hold of the story and began its usual diatribe of "man-eating fish........." etc. Fortunately ODFW now understands the fish would not survive the winter and was so reported. However, behind the scenes a new movement was begun to make them illegal again in Oregon. Fortunately, we were able to stop the movement before it actually began and took hold.


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## Avatar~God (Oct 21, 2004)

got any pictures of the streem?


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## sharpteeth (Feb 14, 2004)

keep ur fish i can't see u getting much enjoyment from watching him in a well!


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Phtstrat said:


> Why don't you just make an indoor pond from water siphoned from the well? This would have the same effect as actually putting it in the well, would it not? If the water parameters down there don't kill it, the temperatures surely will.


 That's a good idea. Put em in a huge tank with that water and I bet they'd be pretty colorful.


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> Phtstrat said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you just make an indoor pond from water siphoned from the well? This would have the same effect as actually putting it in the well, would it not? If the water parameters down there don't kill it, the temperatures surely will.
> ...


 That's not possible, the well is someplace else.







. I'm tempted to drop in a Piranha into this well, but I'm not going to do so.


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