# Adding pH buffer



## ElSteenio (Feb 14, 2006)

Right, pH is up at 8 at the moment, way higher than normal (6.8-7.0), i got some pH buffer 6.5 at the LFS and was told to add it direct to the tank. Is that alright or not?

I have been adding it dissolved in water but it has not made a blind bit of difference (it's changing pH of water i am adding but not tank water) so i am thinking it may need to be added directly to the tank to have any effect, i need to get the pH down as my p is ill because of it. But i don't want to change the pH dramatically and kill the fish!!!

Thanks


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

You are supposed to add a little bit to a time to gradually bring the pH down. Otherwise you are right, it will shock the fish and cause a lot of stress.

Good luck!








~Taylor~


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## ElSteenio (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks, i am adding it to a bucket of water and syphoning it in over an hour. Just like it says on the instructions. I tested it half hour ago and it seems to be working now as the pH is down to 7.4.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

if you still have a problem with your ph are high, try to take some driftwood out if you have one or some in your tank... driftwood make your ph go high.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2006)

Are you sure your fish is sick because the pH is too high?
Have you checked for ammonia and nitrite?

There are people on this board that have had no trouble keeping piranha in the pH 8 range. One disadvantage to a high pH is that ammonia is very toxic in that pH range.

People say "Water quality is more important than specific water chemistry".


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY said:


> if you still have a problem with your ph are high, try to take some driftwood out if you have one or some in your tank... driftwood make your ph go high.


Driftwood will sometimes lower your pH, not boost it.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Crushed coral takes it up or down??? I always get it backwards... some one correct me?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Sparkles the Wonder Bunny said:


> Crushed coral takes it up or down??? I always get it backwards... some one correct me?


It takes it up--boosts the pH.


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## ElSteenio (Feb 14, 2006)

Bullsnake said:


> Are you sure your fish is sick because the pH is too high?
> Have you checked for ammonia and nitrite?
> 
> There are people on this board that have had no trouble keeping piranha in the pH 8 range. One disadvantage to a high pH is that ammonia is very toxic in that pH range.
> ...


Ammonia and nitrite are 0 (absolutely perfecto)
Nitrates were high, but now in the 25ppm range (nitrate resin removal tube and water change)
kH was high but down within safe range now (water softener pillow)
gH was fine
pH was higher than it usually was, hence the reason to get it back within normal range as he sin;t use to it being so high. (pH buffer)

Going for more water tests and getting substrate tested tomorrow as well. Will be getting some anti bacterial medicine too to treat the blisters he has.

All going well, he should be fit n healthy again in days.

Thanks guys









Forum i started in disease section

Incidentally, there are pics of his blistered bits in this forum i started the other day, please take a look and see what you all think. *Beg grovel*


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

taylorhedrich said:


> if you still have a problem with your ph are high, try to take some driftwood out if you have one or some in your tank... driftwood make your ph go high.


Driftwood will sometimes lower your pH, not boost it.








[/quote]








sometime.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

taylorhedrich said:


> Crushed coral takes it up or down??? I always get it backwards... some one correct me?


It takes it up--boosts the pH.








[/quote]
Thanks Taylor. PH always gets me all backwards. Somehow my tanks just wind up in the correct range so I never need to mess with it.

Anyways I would not suggest that you use chem's to correct your PH. I would go for a much more perm fix and only turn to chems as a last resort.
I belive Java moss buffers PH. So planting might aid in the lowering of the PH level. Some driftwoods will also lower but its hit or miss unless you are familar with what types of wood will do what. 
some one please correct if i'm wrong on that one.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

ElSteenio said:


> Ammonia and nitrite are 0 (absolutely perfecto)
> Nitrates were high, but now in the 25ppm range (nitrate resin removal tube and water change)
> kH was high but down within safe range now (water softener pillow)
> gH was fine
> ...


OK ElSteenio,

Perhaps you meant that water softener takes GH (general hardness) down and not KH (alkalinity).
You see alkalinity (bicarbonate concentration) does not mean soft nor hard.

Anyway, the acidic pH Buffer will take the alkalinity down. You see high alkalinity is in itself a basic buffer. If the KH is initially high (6 or more) the water needs more acidic buffer than normally.

Harry


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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

and i would ditch the water softening pillow anyway, it really just masks the issue.


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## ElSteenio (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks for the replies.

pH is down and steady at 7, the kH is at 5 and the gH is well in safe range.

The reason i used the softener pillow was as an emergency to stabilise everything, thats why i bought it - for emergencies. Thought it was better to treat all water parameters at once rather than do one and then another. Same for the pH buffer, my pH is usually very stable. It has been steady for the last 5 days so i will only use buffer in an emergency situation again :nod:

Have never experienced pH problems in all my days as a fishkeeper, or kH for that matter! It is something i will be keeping an eye on once or twice a week instead of monthly as before.

My nitrates are a bit high still, but i'll be doing water changes once the treatment of his blisters is up.

Otherwise all the parameters are in the safe range and they sure as hell are staying that way!

So i got some blackwater extract yesterday (i used it a lot last year), will that help me keep the pH at a steady level? It's the Kent Freshwater product.

Thanks again for the help guys, all information is useful to me and probably others with problems like this too


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Good luck lady. I would definitely get rid of that softener. It contains alot of sodium which is not good for p's. Also gH is very important for the skeletal structure of the fish and the pillow is removing that too. I am curious what is the pH out of your tap ? If i remember correctly you once said 7.4. You will continue having problems until you remove from the tank what is increasing your pH.


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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

and, like harry was saying, the pillow dosen't change the buffer (kH), it only fake lowers the GH (hardness) with sodium ions.

so if you're worried about keeping a stable ph, you'll need to make sure you're kH dosen't bottom out.

to keep a suffient kH (alkalinity/buffering capacity), an easy way to do it is add a teaspoon or so of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) when it needs to be raised. maintaining a sufficient kH, the pH will be less likely to shift.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Don't mess with those chemicals.
Just do your routine water changes and your fish will be used to your local water.
Fish are tough and can be in just about any normal ph; its the water polutiion parameters that get them sick.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Round Head said:


> Don't mess with those chemicals.
> Just do your routine water changes and your fish will be used to your local water.
> Fish are tough and can be in just about any normal ph; its the water polutiion parameters that get them sick.


This one is good advice if there is nothing wrong in the tap water in the first place.

But sometimes the water plants add too much (for aquarium purposes) ammonium and chlorine (chloramine) into tap water, the ph can be 8 or even higher. BTW the tap of Helsinki Finland has pH 8.4 due to high chloramine and ammonium content. The water plant tells that they do this to help preventing pipes from corroding and to keep bacteria down.

Well, large water changes with a tap of pH 8.4 will evidently result your tank having pH 8.4. And that, although is accepted by many piranhas, is not even nearly the right pH to grow most of the plants (all the Swords will slow down, all the water lilies will die and so on), but green algae will flourish.

At this stage it usually is good news to know that using acidic pH buffers (sulphate buffers) will help keeping the pH stabile and for example at 6.5: plants growing, no algae.

And some basics about buffers:
Bicarbonate (HCO3) ions is only one, although common, buffer system. It is measured with the KH scale and it is called alkalinity. But one has to remember that buffering water with bicarbonates will raise the pH to 8.0 - 8.4 if no other buffer is used simultaneously.
A phosphate buffer would lower the pH to 6.5 if it is used with bicarbonates (1:1). But on the other hand this can easily lead into situation where phosphates are too high (algae keep knocking on your door), so it is advisable to use sulphate buffers (common commercial acidic buffers from lfs) with bicarbonates.

Harry


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## ElSteenio (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks Harrykaa, interesting stuff.

From what i have read recently, a safe gH level is under 7, i have mine at 6 after using the water softener pillow for 2 days and it is steady at that now. I don't plan to use the pillow all the time, only if the gH gets out of hand as it is quite high out the tap (about 16 dkh)

After me adding the pH buffer and doing the pillow, Kevin is a lot more lively and a lot more colourful. He has also eaten twice in the last few days after not eating for 2 weeks. Plus his blistery bits have gone down









I don't know what caused the pH to go up. Had the sand and some stones that i use for anchoring the plants tested and they are fine. Probably the water company messing around.


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