# Tried to add a new powerhead last night



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I tried adding an AC 5000 power head to my 125 pygo tank, I had to remove it because they all started fighting worse than I have ever seen. I am going to try again this weekend when I have more time to monitor them, and rearrange the tank a little to take out any territories. I was just totally caught off guard, it was mainly my larger yellow natt that got his territory invaded by the others and then he started cleaning house. They were ok for about 5 minutes and all of the sudden it was just a mad house until I decided I needed to shut it off. As soon as I took it out things calmed down again. I am thinking about running some PVC pipe under the gravel to create a river effect tank, that should work off some of the aggression of the bastards.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

how many gph is that powerhead?

do a tank rearrange it should help too


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> how many gph is that powerhead?
> 
> do a tank rearrange it should help too


 It is 900 gph, they had no idea what hit them when I fired it up







and my intention this weekend is to get rid of the established territories and then drop it back in.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

dang manm thats way too strong, cut it back to about 500gph or so


----------



## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

Ternetzis are great. They do not take crap from any other fish. Maybe two powerheads are in order for your tank.

Good Luck,

SMTT


----------



## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> dang manm thats way too strong, cut it back to about 500gph or so


 I agree with Nate, that's way to strong for a 125 gal. Im sure that they're most likely fighting for the space where theres less current.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> dang manm thats way too strong, cut it back to about 500gph or so


WTF Nate. 
This is what irritates me most about some of your posts. You come back with this condisending tone like what was I thinking putting that much current in my tank. Where do you think I got the idea to add more current to my tank and what would be a good amount to add?

Here is one of your posts on pfish.


> Mine have 900gph in a 6ft long tank, so a 4ft would be good with say a 600 gph, if you can afford an upgrade, I think peoples misconception with the whole powerhead idea is that they dont get a stong enough one.


My tank is a 6' long 125 gallon, where did I misinterpreted what you said?

Here is another from pfish that I think you posted here also, this is just a portion.



> Here are the recomended gph ratings for traditional size tanks
> 
> Tank Size _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _GPH Rating
> 10g _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 200-300
> ...


I do not know or claim to know everything about piranhas, so when I am going to add something in my tank I do research on it to find out what has been successful for others. In your calculations section your recomendation is 800 gph. I relied in part on some of the information you posted and you come back with



> dang manm thats way too strong, cut it back to about 500gph or so










Very Irritating Nate.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

chill man, you must have skipped over the part where I say using two powerheads to make 600-1000, I have two in my tank that are just about 500gph, using multiple powerheads just widens the flow no strength

the part about using two pumps was the critical part


----------



## NIKE (Jan 27, 2003)

grosse i have a powerhead 901 that pushes 900 + gph in my 125gal and my p's did the same thing for the first week. at first they all lined up side by side. then a couple in front and a couple in back. thats when (butt ugly) one of my p's decided to take over the hole left corner. he patroles it constantly!! he has had a couple battles nothing to serious. the reason i like this is. i think this is what goes on in the wild constantly, so i wouldn't be to worried. i usually play with the flow control and shift it do different areas so it's not always in the same spot. i don't think that it is to much power


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> chill man, you must have skipped over the part where I say using two powerheads to make 600-1000, I have two in my tank that are just about 500gph, using multiple powerheads just widens the flow no strength
> 
> the part about using two pumps was the critical part


 I didnt see anything about 2 pumps in your previous posts or recommendations.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

alot of it has to do with the nozzle you use too, use the biggest one you can, small nozzles increase pressure


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

this is from the post



> These are just recommendations, you may go bigger and just use a ball valve to restrict flow, this has the advantage over a small pump because you will be able to use it when you upgrade to a large tank, just don't go too large as the back pressure from the valve over time may wear parts out and example would be restricting a 800gph pump to 400gph for long periods of time.
> 
> A common misbelief is that multiple of the same pump will increase the gph current felt by your fish. This is wrong, lets introduce a term called "FLUX" it means the amount of flow something has. Multiple pumps will increase the FLUX but not the power of your current. So in plain terms multiple 600gph pumps will give you 600gph but a wider current that a single pump. Very wide tanks may want to go with 2 pumps spread slightly apart at 1/3 the width and 2/3 the width of the tank so that they are equidistant from the edge of the tank and each other


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

they can handle the 900 but it may take them a while to get used to it, no need to get up and rowdy bout it though


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I am not pissed just tired. I was looking for the best gph for piranhas in a 125. You seem to have a good grasp of what they like as far a gph in a tank and now you are telling me that 900 is too much when you were saying 900 is what you want. If you use 2 pumps pushing 500 gph it will just widen the flow, not increase the gph correct? So how can you now say 900 is too much when in the research I did, you were recommending 800-900? I just want a consistant answer from you Nate. If you dont know, say you dont know.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I do know, do you have an adjustable nozzle for it? If not use the wide return nozzle attachment. My point is 900 is alot for them to get used to at first, they need to work themselves into shape for that much


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> You seem to have a good grasp of what they like as far a gph in a tank and now you are telling me that 900 is too much when


I think it differs from situation to situation. Mt tank is 52" in length, and I only use a 325gph powerhead, but my reds don't like it one bit. They basically just ignore it.

I think all you can do is make recommendations (and I think that was what Nate did, although he could have stated it more strongly) about the gph-to-tanksize ratio, based on your own experiences. I believe any experienced piranha owner (and I view you as an experienced piranha keeper, Jeff) should know that information from hobby sites like Nate's or my own shoud be seen as based on personal experience, because we simply lack the tools and skills to make and back up scientific statements. Info you find on sites like that should be read/accepted with precaution, imo, but it should also be stated on the website itself.

Just my 2 cents.... :smile:


----------



## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Nate, 
I thought you were only using the current from your wet/dry and no powerheads at all or am I thinking of someone else? I'm thinking of taking out my powerheads completely...I honestly don't think it assists their activiting at all...in my 80 gallon I have 2 penguin 1140's pushing 300gph each and they ignore them.


----------



## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

I'm gonna conduct my own little experiment and observe their behavior...I'm gonna take them out right now. I have a wet/dry in mine plus a fluval 404, the wet/dry is running around 4-500gph and the 404 is 340gph. I'll post my results in a couple weeks to a month in equipment forum.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> Nate,
> I thought you were only using the current from your wet/dry and no powerheads at all or am I thinking of someone else? I'm thinking of taking out my powerheads completely...I honestly don't think it assists their activiting at all...in my 80 gallon I have 2 penguin 1140's pushing 300gph each and they ignore them.


 well yes and no, the returns from my wet drys are the same as two 500 gph powerheads would be, they are nozzle returns from a predrilled tank. At one time I bought a 800gph pump to add even more current, but they started swimming into the deflected current from the opposite end instead so I quit using it


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

One other thing, I agree with Judaaz its only based on my experience though I should mention I am a real perfectionist when it comes to my setups whether its my tanks, cars, guns, you name it, I am always tweaking until I get things just right, and this is the flow ratage my fish like best, I did have it more like 900 at one time but did have the fish staying at the other end alot to rest (they werent in shape then) and would fight since they were all crowded up down there


----------



## readingbabelfish (Jan 16, 2003)

Hi guys!! This sounds like a whiny forum to me. Anyway, I have a wet/dry running a cap 2200 pump in my 55 gallon. I made my own spraybar that runs from the top of my tank to the bottom in one corner. It has 5 holes that spray water all along the back wall. All five of my 3 inch rbp love to just sit against the back wall and try to stay still in the current. That's all I have. Back to the whining...


----------



## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

I have several power heads in my 240 and the reason why is not so they can swim in the current. It's because my tank was built with a 18" piece of 1/2" glass in the top middle f the tank.

Since it is there , I cannot put filter returns or anything there. So the water was just sitting there and all the waste was hanging out there.

So I put the power heads in the middle of my tank to move the water from the middle to the sides so it can be cleaned.

MAD


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> I think all you can do is make recommendations (and I think that was what Nate did, although he could have stated it more strongly) about the gph-to-tanksize ratio, based on your own experiences. I believe any experienced piranha owner (and I view you as an experienced piranha keeper, Jeff) should know that information from hobby sites like Nate's or my own shoud be seen as based on personal experience, because we simply lack the tools and skills to make and back up scientific statements. Info you find on sites like that should be read/accepted with precaution, imo, but it should also be stated on the website itself.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.... :smile:


 Jonas,
I totally agree with you, that was not my complaint. I know that all fish and setups are individualistic and changes will be accepted differently. What irritated me was nates statement that 900 gph was "way to much". Like how could I possibility think putting a power head with that much output could work, when he has made earlier statements to the contrary. If my fish end up not liking it, no big, I will take it out. I have tried things that have worked for some and have not worked for my fish, I expect this because every situation is different. My new plan is to split the flow using PVC piping.

Nate,
You know that two 500 gph power heads create a wider flow but still have a gph of 500 in the tank. This being said, to get your recommended gph with multiple power heads you need to use two 800 gph power heads. I dont understand what you mean by getting 900 gph by using multiple power heads, you explanation of FLUX contradicts this. Please explain.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> chill man, you must have skipped over the part where I say using two powerheads to make 600-1000





> A common misbelief is that multiple of the same pump will increase the gph current felt by your fish. This is wrong, lets introduce a term called "FLUX" it means the amount of flow something has. Multiple pumps will increase the FLUX but not the power of your current. So in plain terms multiple 600gph pumps will give you 600gph but a wider current that a single pump. Very wide tanks may want to go with 2 pumps spread slightly apart at 1/3 the width and 2/3 the width of the tank so that they are equidistant from the edge of the tank and each other


This is what I am refering too, exactly how am I supposed to get 600-1000 gph using multiple power heads?


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

you are right, those readings are for one pumps rating, but I have since learned my fish like it cut back some, they used to have current that strong, like you said all fish are different, I guess you just need to give them a few weeks to get used to it though, what i was try to say by too much is that they may need time to work up to that much current in the tank, an example would be you cannot expect an anverage Joe to get up off the couch and win a marathon right? Well they need to work themselves into shape


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with you, and I had no idea how much power 900 gph actually was. I plan to construct something with pvc to split the flow and widen it. I think this will cut it back enough for them.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I am pretty sure all you need to do is attach a piece of 1" pvc to it, that should spread it out. Recently I was think that my current was to strong so I took of those return nozzles that come with predrilled tanks, and its just a 3/4" pvc pipe now and it is no where near as strong, It reduces the pressure by using a bigger opening


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I hear ya, but I want to spread it out a little more than that. I am thinking of something like this:
-< , should reduce the flow and widen the path.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

ok, I would use 3/4" if I were you then


----------

