# Feeder Debate From Piranha Discussion



## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> feeder fish is a bad decision. It only takes 1 feeder to take down your piranha


Show me some proof of this please. Because I honestly dont think you know what your talking about. You have been keeping Piranha for how long now? How is it you didn't even understand how to cycle a tank properly two months ago but now your in all the posts giving advice like your a expert?

Explain to me why someone cant feed feeder fish. You do realize there is more then one kind of feeder fish right? Your telling me feeding live talapia ,convicts, sunfish is a bad move? How long have you kept piranhas? You have no clue what your talking about and shouldn't be giving anyone advice. You just regurgitate what you read without having any clue as to if its true or not.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

X2! There's a tilapia farm selling fingerlings in KC Mo.be good fish to grow couple out for spawning feeders,rbp make good feeders too, I just bought a dovii pr for future feeders. There's tons of feeders out there just not so called bad goldfish.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

shaneb said:


> > feeder fish is a bad decision. It only takes 1 feeder to take down your piranha
> 
> 
> Show me some proof of this please. Because I honestly dont think you know what your talking about. You have been keeping Piranha for how long now? How is it you didn't even understand how to cycle a tank properly two months ago but now your in all the posts giving advice like your a expert?
> ...


I don't see what's so wrong about the statement you quoted... 1 feeder could easily introduce disease and/or parasites into your system. Raising your own feeders is safer than buying goldfish from the store, but it's still not 100% safe, there's always the risk of introducing something else to your main tanks. Sunfish caught from the wild would need to be quarantined, as would live tilapia purchased from a store.

People are free to feed their fish whatever they like, but when someone new to the hobby is asking about what to feed, the lack of nutrition plus the risk of disease and parasites from LFS feeder fish (rosey reds, comet goldfish) as well as the extra tanks required for quarantining and/or raising your own feeders is enough to make me recommend avoiding live feedings. Once someone has been in the hobby for a bit and done the research, they can make their own decisions on whether or not they want to put in the extra effort involved to start "safely" feeding live.

Everyone is free to share their opinions on the subject, but don't start insulting people because their opinion differs from yours.


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

I dont think its right to just assume feeders are bad. I have heard of more people losing there P's to faulty heaters then by eating feeders. Unfortunately we as members of this forum are a very small majority of all the people who Keep P's. One would have to assume that more people feed feeders then dont. Honestly did you ever think of this before you read it online somewhere? I mean the sponsors on this site that everyone on here buys there P's from do it. _If it was that bad of a idea why would they risk losing there stock? _

I personally think the "Feeders are a bad thing" is highly exaggerated.

Has there ever been a real study done by real scientists proving this is indeed true? Or is it someones theory?

Can someone point me to it if there has been one done.


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

I personally think theres no need to quote what I say and write a 4 paragraph statement telling me I dont know what im doing. Most people agree they lack nutrional value and contain parasites. There are reasons for the large amount of floating goldfish at you LPS. Anyways thanks for bringing it to my attention your a total ass and think your smart by calling me out. Yes, I have only had my piranha for a few months and you couldn't imagine how much research I have done, why else would I join a forum? I know what is suitable to feed your fish. When I started I wanted to feed golfish and feeder mice till people told me they weren't good for your fish and could contain parasites. If you want to risk feeding your fish goldfish go right ahead shaneb, you'll probably get lucky and have no bad outcome. You can't deny there is little nutrion and they carry disease. Pce


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## T-wag (May 21, 2009)

Ibanez247 said:


> Enough with the arguing over feeder fish guys damn its on every post in here lately. If you feel the need to feed live feeders I highly recomend raising your own. Some people rasie convict cichlids as they breed like rabbits. I did this once but ended up removing them because even at 1" the cichlids started terrorizing my 8" reds. The feeders you get at the pet store may contain pirasites or disease. That in itself is the main reason I do not feed live feeders from pet stores. Nothing to do with the thimanese or what ever gold fish contain that can slow the piranhas growth rate. I highly recomend hakari gold pellets the one in the red bag not the green. Mine for some reason will not eat the green type. They go ballistic over the red stuff though. I feed mainly the pellets but also do shrimp, scallops, talapia whole silversides or any other white meat fish.
> For filtration if you like canister filters I recomend Eheim filters. I run two eheim 2217s on my 125 gallon tank and each is rated for 160 gallons. The decorations you put in your tank just be sure there are no points or sharp edges. Pygos freak out relatively easily and will ram themselves into any decore you have. I would also say try out real plants if you dont already grow them. ITs easy and very beneficial to the tank. Oh and welcome to P-fury.


i blame feeders for the recent death of my absolutly AMAZING flowerhorn i had...always fed top of the line food in tip top shape...and bam i give him 6 feeders one time in the 6 months i had him and boom, couple days later i woke up and he didnt


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

Dolphinswim , There are more "Feeders" then goldfish. I dont believe I ever said I fed my fish goldfish.You just assumed that. Your also assuming I am going down to the LFS to get feeders. Not sure if your aware of this but people do "Breed" there own feeders. I know for sure i would trust the fish I bred and raised in my tanks to feed to my piranhas. My point is there are other fish you can breed yourself to use as feeders. Saying DO NOT FEED FEEDERS is kind of misleading dont ya think?

Can you honestly tell me that feeding your fish Home raised convicts feeders, Talapia , Shrimp,and Pellets is a bad diet for it? Can you honestly without a doubt in your mind tell me that because I feed my fish this way I have a higher chance of losing one? Because I feed my fish this diet are they unhealthy?

I started with 6 Dime Sized Macs . I have been feeding them this basic diet for the 4 months i have had this set of fish. They are now between 3 and four inches. I lost two in the process but thats to be expected when you keep macs that size in the same tank. I have posted pictures of my little guys and not one person said to me that my fish looked unhealthy. I have talked to a few other Mac owners and the growth rate appears to be right on par with what it should be.



> I personally think theres no need to quote what I say and write a 4 paragraph statement


It was only 9 sentences. No where close to four paragraphs. Just Saying


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

Do what ya gotta do bud. Just don't going around telling people they dont know when they took a lot of time researching. Thanks


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> Just don't going around telling people they dont know when they took a lot of time researching.


Please point me to some of this research. I am truly interested in seeing what the expert(s) have to say. I am having the hardest time finding any real info on this subject. I am open minded and maybe I am wrong in my thinking. Maybe the research you read can sway my mindset. Would you mind sharing a link with me so i can take another look and re evaluate my situation?


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## wisco_pygo (Dec 9, 2009)

feeders aren't sound nutrition for piranha's. can they survive on them? yes. can they thrive on them? probably not. people can feed their fish as they please. the information to improve the diet of the fish is always available here. leave it at that.

quit arguing about it guys. don't derail the thread. the op is trying to get sound information, and it doesn't help them one bit if they have to sift through a page of you guys bickering back and forth to get it.


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

I am curious as hell about something. This is in the piranha discussion forum. The OP was originally going to feed feeders, you guys are trying to tell them its wrong to feed feeders and I am asking for someone to show me some proof that it is in fact bad. How is this not on topic?


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## jayscollision (Apr 11, 2010)

shaneb said:


> I am curious as hell about something. This is in the piranha discussion forum. The OP was originally going to feed feeders, you guys are trying to tell them its wrong to feed feeders and I am asking for someone to show me some proof that it is in fact bad. How is this not on topic?


I practically raised my reds on feeders along with a couple other foods. Don't you know that all the fish they eat in the wild are stuffed to the gills with Vita Chem and Cichlid gold pellets lmao. How do people figure that a wild fish or something floating dead and rotten in the amazon has any more nutritional value than a goldfish. My P's love feeders and I will continue to feed them.


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## BIG GAME (Jul 31, 2010)

OK Guys,

in spite of my bad English I`ll try to ask a complicated question.

Today I talked to dealer from my local aquarium shop. He told me that I should constantly keep with RBP some other very small fishes which would be eaten when piranhas get hungry. He also told me that in his shop those small fishes are main part of his piranhas diet. Is this a good idea? I ask about it in the context of feeders. I would like to point out that piranhas in that shop look very nice and healthy.

I hope that what I wrote is understandable.

Best regards.


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

The research isnt about feeders. The reason I said "ive done research" was so you can quit thinking I dont know anything and im stupid. Shaneb your making your self seem pretty ignorant in this thread my pal...


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

shaneb said:


> I dont think its right to just assume feeders are bad. I have heard of more people losing there P's to faulty heaters then by eating feeders. Unfortunately we as members of this forum are a very small majority of all the people who Keep P's. One would have to assume that more people feed feeders then dont. Honestly did you ever think of this before you read it online somewhere? I mean the sponsors on this site that everyone on here buys there P's from do it. _If it was that bad of a idea why would they risk losing there stock? _
> 
> I personally think the "Feeders are a bad thing" is highly exaggerated.
> 
> ...


What research needs to be done to show that feeders can carry disease and/or parasites? All fish can carry disease and parasites, so by dumping new fish into your main tank, you are taking a risk... dumping dozens of feeder fish into your tank on a weekly basis would obviously increase that risk quite a bit.

You guys that are advocating live feedings seem to be missing the point here -- people are free to feed their fish whatever they like, that includes live feeders if they are OK with the additional risk associated with them. Most hobbyists recommend avoiding live feedings because the risk is not worth it to them and want to pass that advice onto others. There's no wrong or right way to do things, some people just like to be overly cautious when it comes to their fish -- I happen to be one of those people.


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

shaneb said:


> > feeder fish is a bad decision. It only takes 1 feeder to take down your piranha
> 
> 
> Show me some proof of this please. Because I honestly dont think you know what your talking about. You have been keeping Piranha for how long now? How is it you didn't even understand how to cycle a tank properly two months ago but now your in all the posts giving advice like your a expert?
> ...


take a lood at this one...

I agree with Joe, in the end do wthat ever you want to

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/186704-shrimp-as-a-staple-food/


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## I Can Mate (Apr 8, 2010)

i feel that feeders are just fine for piranhas... it helps them improve there natural instincts and gives them exercise. of course there always higher quality feeders and lower quality feeders just like tyson chicken and farm raised non steroid chicken .


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> The research isnt about feeders.


How can you tell someone not to feed feeders when you haven't done any research on it. You continue to assume anytime someone says "FEEDERS" they are talking about goldfish from the LFS. Thats being pretty ignorant(Lacking knowledge or awareness).

JoeDizzleMPLS

You trust yourself to be able to care for your piranha's right? Then why wouldn't you trust yourself to raise your own feeders and use them? Its a honest question and not a smart ass remark.



> What research needs to be done to show that feeders can carry disease and/or parasites?


Your saying the feeders (Convicts) i breed for food have disease and parasites? How could you possibly know this without coming over to my house and checking my fish and tanks?

This goes out to anyone still reading

My point all along is this. If you raise your own feeders to feed to your Piranhas there is virtually no risk at all in doing it. You would have a greater chance of something malfunctioning on your tank and killing your fish. By breeding and raising them before they hit your P tank there is a very very slim chance they will carry anything and if they do you dont need to be keeping fish in the first place.

If I am wrong someone please show me why


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## hecks8094 (May 13, 2008)

i been keeping piranhas ever since i was 14, 21 now and ill admit for the first couple of years i fed them goldfish and my piranhas always grew and looked healthy to me now i have my own quarantine live Talapia and carps that i feed my ps along with blood worms shrimp and pellets.


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## Mason1 (Jan 18, 2010)

I know that everytime I thought about going to the store to get feeders I ended up not doing it. I have had my reds for just over a year now (sept 16th







)with no losses or disease and mine have only eaten flakes, pellets, shrimp, and tilapia. Its not that I dont wanna feed them anything live im just scared because I dont have the room for a quarantine tank so I would be just buying them and putting them in there.

But the other day I got into this conversation with some lady while I was getting some tilapia for my fish. She said that her son has 4 reds and he has only fed them goldfish for 3 years, with no quarantine. And he hasnt had any losses or disease either (thats what she said when I asked her).

So heres two people with different methods but the exact same results. I still havent fed live and dont know if I will. But I dont see why there has to be so much debate about this. If you want to do it then do it, but if something goes wrong dont come back here and say people didnt tell you that could happen.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i agree with the initial statement to a limit. it does onyl take one feeder to introduce soem disease or parisite but the chances of this happening are alot lower if you use fish that arnt mass produced and stocked in close proximity like goldfish. Obviously if you take away feeders altogeter thire is even less chance form gettign something bad from food.

IMO goldfish from a lfs that stockes 100 per 10g isnt a good idea. Somethign liek breedign your own cons is a better choice if you must have feeders but any fish can carry diseases


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

shaneb said:


> > The research isnt about feeders.
> 
> 
> How can you tell someone not to feed feeders when you haven't done any research on it. You continue to assume anytime someone says "FEEDERS" they are talking about goldfish from the LFS. Thats being pretty ignorant(Lacking knowledge or awareness).
> ...


To answer your question, I don't have the desire to throw my money away on feeding live feeders... I've done it in the past and it wasn't worth it. I can feed a variety of healthy, non-live foods that are tucked neatly away in my freezer or the cabinet I keep my fish stuff in for just a few dollars a month. I grab raw fish and shrimp while I'm grocery shopping and I order pellets online -- just about zero extra effort.

In order to breed feeder fish, I would have to run a couple more tanks which would not only have an up-front cost, but also the cost of energy to run the tanks, filter media, plus the food for those fish. You also have to take into consideration the extra maintenance time each of those extra tanks take up each week. Now after going through all that money and all that effort, you still have to spend money on raw fish or shrimp, pellets, etc. to provide a varied diet... Not even close to worth it IMO.

Now onto the points that I bolded in your post -- those statements are simply not true... Yes, breeding your own feeder fish can be safer than buying from the crowded, dirty tanks at the LFS, but there is still a risk involved. Disease can and does pop up out of nowhere sometimes, it's part of the hobby, when you are moving fish around from one tank to another, the spread of disease obviously becomes a possibility. Just because disease pops up in someone's tank, it doesn't mean that they have no business being in the hobby. Comparing the risk to equipment malfunctions doesn't really work since heaters, filters, etc. are necessary to have, live feeders are not.

I have no problem with people feeding live feeders to their fish, but if that's your choice, at least be realistic about the risk involved and don't tell people that are new to the hobby that it is 100% safe -- it's not.


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## jayscollision (Apr 11, 2010)

My grandmother lived to 93 eating sh*t greasy food and huffed down 2 packs of pall malls a day so I guess my p's will do okay with the occasional feeder lmao. If we all worried about taking care of ourselves as good as our piranhas wel would live to be 100 and run yearly triathlons lol. I've seen some peoples Vita chem, pellet stuffed piranhas on here and Obese fish that just sit there do not impress me. I personally think feeders keep my fish active, sleek looking killing machines they are. Oh and by the way the 1000 or more babies I have love em too.


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> Comparing the risk to equipment malfunctions doesn't really work since heaters, filters, etc. are necessary to have, live feeders are not.


I am comparing the probability of death between the two risks.

Like comparing dieing by heart attack and dieing by being hit by a car. Which occurs more? Neither has anything to do with the other aside from the fact death occurs. Its still a valid comparison because I am figuring out the probability of which one happens more.

Same as with Live Fish VS Faulty Equipment - Just trying to see which occurrence happens more often.

I dont see a risk in feeding feeders that I bred myself.

I have done it for the last 8 months with the wifes Reds (I was feeding them goldfish at first from the LFS).I did stop feeding them feeders for awhile after finding this forum. Then I bought a friends 120 gallon convict tank along with two breeding pair. I have done it for the last 2 months with my Macs and no ill effects so far but time will tell i guess.

I know this isn't a real long time but I have went through a ton of feeders. Which leads me to believe I am either very good at keeping my feeders healthy, I am lucky (I should buy a lottery ticket lucky), Or the chances of this really happening is pretty slim and over exaggerated.

There are plenty of members on here who do feed live feeders and there fish are healthy too.

Side Note: I dont feed my P's only feeders. They get a little bit of everything.Which i think is more important then feeding them live feeders or not.

Here is a shot of one of our Reds that has been fed Feeders most of its life. He does get Hakari Gold Pellets , Talapia filets , and Shrimp also


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## jayscollision (Apr 11, 2010)

Nice fish, Probably loaded with parasites lol.


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

Yeah I am sure your right Jay, I was just wanting everyone to see what feeding feeders does to a P so they wont make the same mistake I have.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

shaneb said:


> > Comparing the risk to equipment malfunctions doesn't really work since heaters, filters, etc. are necessary to have, live feeders are not.
> 
> 
> I am comparing the probability of death between the two risks.
> ...


The thing that you are missing in your comparison is that one thing is necessary, the other is not... like someone developing lung cancer from breathing pollutants in the air, which is something that isn't easily avoided (like running filters and heaters) and someone developing lung cancer from smoking cigarettes, a risk factor that is easily avoidable (such as feeding live feeders) -- both have a decent probability of death now, but the smoker could have significantly reduced his risk by not smoking. This analogy also works in the sense that we all know someone who is 90 years old and has smoked for 75 years and they're still kickin, but for every one of those people, there is someone that met an early end due to their smoking habit.

You've only been feeding live for 8 months, not a very big sampling period... doesn't mean that you are great at breeding disease-free live feeders or that you've been lucky, just means that you haven't had to deal with any negative effects yet. The problem with this philosophy is that there's no telling what could happen in the next few days, months, years, etc. and this is a risk factor that can be easily avoided.

My point is this... I'm not willing to take the risk. If anybody else wants to take that risk, that is their decision to make with their fish -- just don't ignore the fact that there is a risk and tell everyone that it's perfectly safe. This subject has been brought up a million times and the only thing mentioned to support live feeding is either "well I feed live and my fish are fine" or "I know someone that fed live for years and their fish are fine".... there's nothing definitive in that.


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## PiranhaMike661 (Jul 9, 2010)

My RBP's freakin love Koi!!


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> You've only been feeding live for 8 months, not a very big sampling period


Its been there entire life so far. Yes its only 8 months but its been the first 8 months of there life were they do the most growing. No other time in there lifespan do they grow as much as they do the first year. If feeding live had a negative effect I think we would have seen something by now.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

shaneb said:


> > You've only been feeding live for 8 months, not a very big sampling period
> 
> 
> Its been there entire life so far. Yes its only 8 months but its been the first 8 months of there life were they do the most growing. No other time in there lifespan do they grow as much as they do the first year. If feeding live had a negative effect I think we would have seen something by now.


It's not just about their growth rate... you are feeding other foods as well. I have repeatedly stated that the main problem is the risk of disease and parasites and the topic keeps getting dragged back to the growth and appearance of fish that have been fed live feeders. I don't mind having these discussions/debates, but this one has not progressed at all -- you guys are still stuck on square one with the "my fish look fine" argument.

Your fish can grow at a good rate and look amazing on a varied diet including live feeders, but that means absolutely nothing when one of the live feedings transfers something to your tank and you are forced to deal with something that could have been easily avoided.


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> I have repeatedly stated that the main problem is the risk of disease and parasites


Sponsors of this very site that sell piranhas for a living do the same thing and have posted videos of it. I would think if it was that HUGE of a risk they wouldn't be doing it. You would think that if it was such a high risk that they would be losing fish and telling there customers DO NOT FEED LIVE FEEDERS. They obviously have more experience with piranhas then any cpl of us combined. It would not make sense from a business standpoint to take a risk of that nature if it could wipe out your whole inventory now would it?

I haven't heard one single person in this debate yet say they have lost a piranha due to feeders. Yet you continue to tell us how risky it is.There are plenty of people who have said that they feed feeders and haven't lost one yet though. We cant all just be lucky.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

I think everyone will agree on one thing VARIETY! What you put in to that is up to you. IMO the more the better. N yes I feed feeders.I feed rbp,minnows,worms, crawdads.n gold fish too. But I feed pellets ,tilapia, krill n silversides too. I'm lucky though Missouri is picky bout parasites from bait to its natural waters.they can't be wild caught(farm raised n parasite free) n yes my bait store carries goldfish too(god I love this state)when I buy minnows or sometimes goldfish they've already been n are in medicated water.even has crawdads n koi same way! Live fish have nutrients that just can't be found anywhere else! Period! No one can deny that! Blood, guts, bone, all of it starts losing nutritional value as soon as it dies.that's a fact of life everyone knows this. Like I said in another thread. Advising a new member should disclose every food option n let the decide for themselves. Or this is just gonna be a weekly thing when someone says they're bad n someone else disagrees. Nice fish Shane!! Look at my macs all fed minnows once a week. I callenge someone that doesn't feed live! Show me your Mac looks better! Good luck with that! How bout rbp any takers? Anyone with 5" blk rhom not fed live let's see it. I have junk blackberry that takes even worse pics but ill compare ANY of my fish with a fish that doesn't get live. Honestly I could care less if you feed kittens or puppies its none of my business! But regardless of what you believe is good or bad, right or wrong it should be fed a variety of things!! Variety variety variety.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

You all suk! Moved this for debate n didn't say sh*t! I see how you all are!DICKS!lol


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

One last thing! I'm curious how anyone on this forum can say I lost a fish to internal parasite? Anyone speak up now! You can blame a death of a piranha on whatever you want but to claim it was a internal parasite is bullshit! Straight up! How many say it was a parasite actually cut their fish open after it died n actually found parasites? I bet not a damn one! Almost all wild fish have parasites when caught anyhow.if you don't med a new fish n at least once a year.I say its neglect or shitty fish keeping. I blame that on YOU not a parasite! My dog gets worms I don't blame it on the worms, if he dies from heartworms I still can't blame it on the worms.its my fault for not giving proper care.


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## I Can Mate (Apr 8, 2010)

wow ^


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

BRUNER247 said:


> You all suk! Moved this for debate n didn't say sh*t! I see how you all are!DICKS!lol


It's the same thing being said over and over and over again... it's not really a debate when nothing new is being brought to the table besides "my fish look fine".


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

BRUNER247 said:


> One last thing! I'm curious how anyone on this forum can say I lost a fish to internal parasite? Anyone speak up now! You can blame a death of a piranha on whatever you want but to claim it was a internal parasite is bullshit! Straight up! How many say it was a parasite actually cut their fish open after it died n actually found parasites? I bet not a damn one! Almost all wild fish have parasites when caught anyhow.if you don't med a new fish n at least once a year.I say its neglect or shitty fish keeping. I blame that on YOU not a parasite! My dog gets worms I don't blame it on the worms, if he dies from heartworms I still can't blame it on the worms.its my fault for not giving proper care.


That is the most twisted logic ever... you just keep trying to twist the facts around to support your position. I'll say this again, but I'm sure it won't matter because it seems to be falling on deaf ears -- You are free to feed your fish whatever you want, but denying the fact that there is a risk of introducing parasites and/or disease into your tank is ridiculous. My approach to fish-keeping is to be cautious about what I add to my tanks and avoid the problem altogether instead of dealing with potential problems down the road. If done properly, the risks associated with feeding live are pretty low, but to most, it's not worth the risk or the added expense and effort.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Oh I have lots more to bring to this table! I have a whole thankgiving dinners worth!I'm just tired of beating this dead piranha. I could go for days, but what's the point? There'll always be those for feeding live n those against it.but it pisses me off when members talking out there ass sayn feeders carry this, feeders do that, n my fish died from feeders. Blah blah this that n the other. When none of these members know what the hell they even talkn about.probably more than half couldn't cut a piranha up even if they did know what the hell they were looking for in the first place! There's a chance a fish can get sic from feeders there's a chance a healthy fish can just die too, they do it everyday!every damn one of are fish are gonna die! Stiffn up that upper lip n quit blaming it on this or that, when probably 80% of the time or better, the true cause just isn't known.there's pros n cons to both sides! If ya all want ill argue for the other side tomarrow. Lmao.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Twisted logic? Twisting the truth? You know what. Any of ya need help email me. I've met some awesome, cool people here n you all have my email. Fuk the rest of you narrow minded bitches!


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

I just finished reading this entire thread and here i go. Shane i find it funny you have been on here since May and think your going to revolutionize the way everyone feeds there fish. To alot of us here our fish are more than just something you can brag out to your buddies about how you have Piranha that are vicious killers and tear goldfish in half.







I am one of those that feed a varied diet with vita-chem and stuffed with pellits. Is it over kill thats debateable but what isnt is the growth rates that me and others have achieved over the years. Instead of repeating the same thing over and over maybe you should of done some research before before posting this or maybe read some of the links that were provided . Had you of done so you would know about Thiaminase, Untill you read the whole thing i refuse to waist anymore of my time trying to help someone that knows it all.


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

O and the whole fat fish thing. Everyone knows....proper diet + exercise = Healthy ask any doctor


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

BRUNER247 said:


> Oh I have lots more to bring to this table! I have a whole thankgiving dinners worth!I'm just tired of beating this dead piranha. I could go for days, but what's the point? There'll always be those for feeding live n those against it.but it pisses me off when members talking out there ass sayn feeders carry this, feeders do that, n my fish died from feeders. Blah blah this that n the other. When none of these members know what the hell they even talkn about.probably more than half couldn't cut a piranha up even if they did know what the hell they were looking for in the first place! There's a chance a fish can get sic from feeders there's a chance a healthy fish can just die too, they do it everyday!every damn one of are fish are gonna die! Stiffn up that upper lip n quit blaming it on this or that, when probably 80% of the time or better, the true cause just isn't known.there's pros n cons to both sides! If ya all want ill argue for the other side tomarrow. Lmao.


Introducing feeders to the tank can introduce disease to the tank, that's a fact... regardless of how small the risk is, it is a risk. By what you are saying, you shouldn't exercise caution because fish die from other things too. Yeah, fish can and do die from other things, but I choose not to add another risk factor to the equation in the form of live feedings. Once again, I'm not saying that you are wrong for feeding live and I'm not telling anyone that they can't feed live, that's your choice, I'm just sharing my opinion on the subject and saying that I wouldn't do it.


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## shaneb (May 4, 2010)

> Shane i find it funny you have been on here since May and think your going to revolutionize the way everyone feeds there fish. To alot of us here our fish are more than just something you can brag out to your buddies about how you have Piranha that are vicious killers and tear goldfish in half


Where did you get this messed up idea at?

I have never said such a thing. You have resorted to making stuff up now. Did you know I dont feed my fish in front of anyone who dont live in my house no matter what i am feeding them? I want my fish to eat in peace and dont need a bunch of gawkers watching them.

I feed a varied diet and do not feed feeders exclusively.

So now when i joined a site has something to do with how long i have been around piranhas? When i was a kid my father kept P's . He worked on the road and I was left to take care of them. I had no clue what i was doing but i managed not to kill them off.

I have been a member at other predatory fish sites for allot longer then here. When my kids asked me for some fish I got the bug to get some P's again. I got some reds and did my thing. Then my buddy bought me some macs for my B day.i went searching for information because I didn't know jack sh*t about them. Thats how i found this site and if it wasn't for the fact I got some macs I would still not have a clue this site existed.

So its possible to own piranhas and not be a member of a forum for a long time. I know its hard to believe but this forum is only a very small minority of piranhas owners..

I am glad you know so much about me. You are clueless at best

Where did i ever say I was going to revolutionize the way everyone feeds there fish. Where did I say everyone needs to feed there fish feeders. I think i said "I dont feel there is as high of a risk as everyone thinks there is". Then I gave reason why I think this way.

I have never once said I know it all.. Matter of fact This is the only debate I have gotten into.

So please do show me where i said any of the things you have accused me of?.


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## wisco_pygo (Dec 9, 2009)

joedizzle ftw

we're beating a dead horse. p's can survive on feeders but not thrive.

my comparison between feeders and vita chem soaked pellets/white fish fellet/shrimp is the lack of nutrition on the part of the feeder fish. its like if you have an olympic athlete you want to look and perform his best, but you're feeding him a diet of big macs as nutrition. of course he will always perform, but won't look the best or perform at the highest level- say if he was eating all organic/whole foods with necessary vitamins. my two cents. carry on ladies and gentlemen.


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

FYI That's how your coming acoss







Now that i know a bit about you, Everyone on this site is trying to help there are new people on here all the time that dont have the experiance as you do and who do buy feeders at Wal-Mart to be able to feed there piranha. Now quoting someone who is trying to help and making him appear as if he dont know what he talking about isnt acceptable.









Thank you Wisco, Great comparison BTW


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Now that I know a lil about you?(said to Shane). Maybe you should get to know a person before you jump to conclusions or judging someone by there join date or post count. N want you said to me. By what I say you take it as I don't care bout fish cause they're all gonna die anyways. Are you kidding me? You obviously don't know a damn thing bout me neither!! Funny only one I see twisting sh*t around is you. N what a athlete can't eat a cheese burger lol I guess that same athlete can't eat red meat neither. I tell everyone variety is the key n try to get everyone to med their fish before they're sic to prevent them from getting sic in the 1st place n yet I don't really care bout fish cause they just gonna die anyways.wtf? Show me a athlete that doesn't eat cheeseburger once in a while n ill show you a lier! True if you eat cheeseburgers everyday your probably gonna be overweight.but eatn healthy meals 6days a week n eat a cheeseburger once n most likely that guys gonna be healthier than most! Shane n I both feed a variety of foods.so don't try pushing the athlete eatn cheeseburgers everyday bs.no one in this debate feeds exclusively goldfish n actually feeders(good or bad ones, take your pic)make up a small portion of their diet. We're not some punk kids buyn fish to be cool or to show off eatn garbage.hell members think I spike my food with vitachem bs.WRONG!!!! I don't have to stuff pellets in anything. My fish take them without tryn to fool em or forcing them to eat them.I put any of my fish up against anyone that uses vitacrap or whatever. Go look at my macs.tell me they they look unhealthy. Ill even bump it to the top for anyone n everyone to see. Funny feeders are so unhealthy yet my fish look just as good if not better than anyone that uses vitachem or any other product. My rbp spawn almost weekly n have big heathly spawns. My growth rate is just as good if not better than anyone else. Anyone freel free to compare with me anytime!my macs are 5" now n I haven't even had them 5 months! They were all not 3/4" when I got them. Their colors are insane. Must be doing something right!!must be my twisted logic maken em so big n beautiful!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

BRUNER247 said:


> Now that I know a lil about you?(said to Shane). Maybe you should get to know a person before you jump to conclusions or judging someone by there join date or post count. N want you said to me. By what I say you take it as I don't care bout fish cause they're all gonna die anyways. Are you kidding me? You obviously don't know a damn thing bout me neither!! Funny only one I see twisting sh*t around is you. N what a athlete can't eat a cheese burger lol I guess that same athlete can't eat red meat neither. I tell everyone variety is the key n try to get everyone to med their fish before they're sic to prevent them from getting sic in the 1st place n yet I don't really care bout fish cause they just gonna die anyways.wtf? Show me a athlete that doesn't eat cheeseburger once in a while n ill show you a lier! True if you eat cheeseburgers everyday your probably gonna be overweight.but eatn healthy meals 6days a week n eat a cheeseburger once n most likely that guys gonna be healthier than most! Shane n I both feed a variety of foods.so don't try pushing the athlete eatn cheeseburgers everyday bs.no one in this debate feeds exclusively goldfish n actually feeders(good or bad ones, take your pic)make up a small portion of their diet. We're not some punk kids buyn fish to be cool or to show off eatn garbage.hell members think I spike my food with vitachem bs.WRONG!!!! I don't have to stuff pellets in anything. My fish take them without tryn to fool em or forcing them to eat them.I put any of my fish up against anyone that uses vitacrap or whatever. Go look at my macs.tell me they they look unhealthy. Ill even bump it to the top for anyone n everyone to see. Funny feeders are so unhealthy yet my fish look just as good if not better than anyone that uses vitachem or any other product. My rbp spawn almost weekly n have big heathly spawns. My growth rate is just as good if not better than anyone else. Anyone freel free to compare with me anytime!my macs are 5" now n I haven't even had them 5 months! They were all not 3/4" when I got them. Their colors are insane. Must be doing something right!!must be my twisted logic maken em so big n beautiful!


Bruner, I don't even know how to respond to you... I say one thing and you respond with something totally different. I never said you don't care about your fish cuz they're gonna die anyways, I said that you are basically saying that people shouldn't worry about the risk of disease from feeders because fish die of other things too, here's your quote...

"There's a chance a fish can get sic from feeders there's a chance a healthy fish can just die too, they do it everyday!every damn one of are fish are gonna die!"

Once again, the appearance of your fish has nothing to do with this debate, you feed a variety of foods, so just like the claims you made about "none of these members know what the hell they even talkn about" in relation to what killed their fish, you don't know if it's the feeder fish or the other foods that are helping with growth and appearance. That is why I keep trying to steer this conversation back to something that can actually be discussed, the subject of the risk of disease keeps getting avoided here.

You are taking this on a personal level even tho I am not saying that what you are doing is wrong, every time this subject gets brought up, I wish someone would just say something like "I like to include some live feeders in my piranha's diet, I know there is still a risk of introducing disease to my tank, but I breed my own feeders and am very cautious about what gets added to my tank. Anyone that wants to feed live should do research and exercise caution as well"... but instead it's always "I feed live and my fish look great, there's no risk of disease because I breed my own feeders".


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## jayscollision (Apr 11, 2010)

I agree 100% with bruner about variety. I feed a varied diet, but I still feed 50 to 100 feeders a week. I love to watch my reds hunt them down like a pack of wolves.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Of course there's a chance they could catch something.that possibility is always there. I know my feeder source has clean feeders so I don't worry bout it.I feed a lot of rbp to rbp also.I know my fish are clean.so again I don't worry bout it. Bio-gold+ today, 8 dozen minnows tomarrow. Just enough for everyone to get there bellies full.n then on to massivore on Sunday. Sorry if I took you wrong Joe but to me it sounded like you said I don't care if my fish die or not. If you got that from what I said then I worded it wrong or you took it wrong.I take all my predator fish VERY serious. All my fish get the very best food(n yes that includes a belly full of feeders once a week)n care. I do greater percentage of waterchanges than most & do them more than most. IME & IMO the benifits outway the negative when it comes to feeders even if it is goldfish or minnows. Feeders I have access to are already in medicated water when he dips em out.plus I dose all new fish & again once a year.I take pride in ALL my fish if its 1/4" long to 2'long.I spend a ton of time n $$$ on my fish. So I'm sure you can understand why I take it personal when someone says I don't care if they die.or whatever you said. That is how I took it. Sorry if I took you wrong or I worded it wrong in the first place.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Anyone knows what type of fish P's eat in the wild? And if those type of fish are available at the LFS/OFS? I was reading this thread and started thinking about setting up a "natural" breeding tank for feeders for my P's. Natural meaning fish that they would normally hunt and eat in the wild. I feed my P's a variety, which includes live. Interesting discussion, hope this isn't off topic.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

I don't think their is anything wrong with feeders as long as it is done correctly. For one I rarely/never use goldfish,minnows, or other "garbage" fish as feeders. I use Cichlids or other higher quality fish for that. I also quarantine them when I don't know the supplier or getting them from a Lfs. My friend breeds cichlids so I usually grab them from him. I know the health of the fish is high and they are taken care of. If I did use minnows or "garbage" fish I had a quarantine tank and I dosed it with Parasite meds and went through the process as if they had some. To dose I used a 30 gallon tank as it was easier to dose it and needed less as well as a back up tank for a hospital. This way I found to be fool proof and as best as I found a safe way to add feeders to your tank. 
AS far as mice or anything like that, I would not choose to do so unless I get a huge shoal in the future but as long as it is done with respect for the fish and it's food then I don't have a problem with it. After all this site was built to showcase a feeding video mouse and all!! I just love my manny very much and would not risk his health or safety for a feeding. Again I might feel different if I had a big shoal but I don't!



Smoke said:


> Anyone knows what type of fish P's eat in the wild? And if those type of fish are available at the LFS/OFS? I was reading this thread and started thinking about setting up a "natural" breeding tank for feeders for my P's. Natural meaning fish that they would normally hunt and eat in the wild. I feed my P's a variety, which includes live. Interesting discussion, hope this isn't off topic.


They are predatory scavengers,so they mostly eat dead or dying marine life. Whatever they can get there mouths on without risking to much. In the wild these fish are the PREY no question. They are smaller than most fish out there and most of the behavior you see out of them is natural because if they are not skiddish they are dead in the wild. They pretty much eat the very young or very old, diseased and sick, or the corpse of the dead. That is pretty much all they can get without a lot of risk and that offers little to no resistance.


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

Feeders are fine,

As long as you know what your doing.

If you breed your own or know 100% they are diseases free
,Your good to go.

Also, 
Make shure you feed a quality feeders.
If I havent mistaken an average feeder goldfish has bearly any nutrisional value.


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