# Help ID this Serra



## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Can you guys tell what type of serra this is? I'm thinking between Venezuelan Rhom, Peruvian Rhom, or Irritan! Here he is, not that good of a pic though:


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

itsw most definetly a venezuelan rhomb i have one and it looks almost exactly like that its not an irritans for ity has a nice dark band on the tail its a ven rhomb...head/yellowish color etc


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

The reason why I was thinking it was an Irritan is cuz of this pic from the classifieds:

http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/in...showtopic=52316

Having this pic:










My fish had the same hump but the tail here isn't that visible! How can you tell that it's not peruvian though?


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

look at a puru and look at that you will see clearly the diff


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

irritans doesnt have a dark band on the edge of its caudal or tail fin


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

irritans is also from ven and juvi irri and rhombs are hard to tell apart at a small size except for the tail fin and slightly different spotting


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Ohh ok tnx!


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## Serygo (May 17, 2004)

sorry to say, but its not a peru, its a irritan, cuz the irritan has more of a longer body, and rhoms have a much shorter body than an irritan.
And also look at the anal fin, its yellow the same as the irritan, so Its a irritan, and not a rhom.

could we please get a pic, that shows its anal fin?
K thanks!

P.S.
Here is a pic of a irritan, and a peru rhom, look at the difference.

Irritan










rhom


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## Serygo (May 17, 2004)

ok there I just realized that he said it was a venezualean rhom, I thought he said it was a peru.
Ok...
It might as well be a vinny, we will have to see pics of him when he gets much bigger.


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

irritans dont have a dark caudalband at the end of the tail juvi irritans and juvi ven rhombs at small sizes look ALOT alike i actually found my 2 ven rhombs mixed with irritans in the same tank...they wer eall shipped as rhombs but almost all of them were irritans on delivery. i will take a pic of mine to show you


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

111


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

222


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Mine has the orange-ish anal fin though! That's why i'm considering that mine is one! I also saw that one from Pedro's site and my fish really looks like it! I can't compare the Venezuelan though, since he doesn't have pics of the younger ones!

cretinHOP: Try turning the light off or dimming it cuz it kinda messes up the pic(esp. when distinguishing the colors)


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

color doesnt always mean anything when it comes to fish one of my vinnys has yellow anal fin and throat with a slight orange mark and the other has a red anal fin with no yellow both are vinny rhombs


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Ohh ok my bad! But he really looks like the Irritan pic from Pedro's website provided by Serygo! It has that distinct hump! Basically it just looks the same!


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

rhombs have humps...have you seen a vinny rhombs hump? you will see why it looks the same...here look is a big one brb


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Your vinny is an aggressive one ryt? Was he like that at once or did you train him? How big is he?


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

allpiranha have different shapes...all rhombs can have a similar shape to an irritans when small i have a brazil that does but look....


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

i have a 2inch that tries to bite me lol and a 3-4 inch yellowish one that you saw


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

2 inch


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

to END this debate listen irritans DO NOT have a black band on the end of their tails yours has one he is not an irritan


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

We're we debating? Lol! Whos Rhom is that you posted? Yours?


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

justtheis it a rhomb or irritans thing..yes i have 2 vins the big one isnt mine i just have babies if you wanna see the tank my baby is going into check out my signature..its th ebiggest one...


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Damn! The tank looks so nice! Why white paint? Black should look better! Also its kinda better to have a shoal in there rather than a solitary fish! That's some nice set-up dude!


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

not white thats just light blue to seal the wood the inside of the tank is going to have a built in sand/rock background (foam panels sylicoens to the back and sides with sand...rocks glued to it)and the outside is going to be a green so dark its almost black with walnut trim...and the rhomb tank is going to have a built in waterfall from 2xac500 and one mag drive for lateral current 1200gph


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Ohh and looking at the last pic of your 2" you posted i'm convinced mine's a Venezuelan! Looks exactly like mine! Tnx again for the help dude and good luck on your tank!


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

i am thinking of building a 16 footx4footx28 inch tank 1100 gallons about.


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

no problemman the rhomb tank im setting up is for the growing captive rhombs post im taking the experiment as far as you can go here check it out...its in responce tothis....http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/index.php?showtopic=38230


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Damn! That's gonna be one lucky spoiled ass rhom! Hehehe!


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Yea i've read that thread! What are the mag drives? Are they like Power Filters or are they just pumps?


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

mag drives arereally good water pumps


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Ahhh I knew it! Cuz they look like Powerheads when you look at them! How do you make that waterfall though?


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

*How are you able to tell the locality by just looking the fish?*

This is almost impossible and it is just a guess which has many possibilities of being wrong!!!
How even can you id the fish at a small size like this?For sure it is a beautifull serra and it needs time in order to tell.


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

They said they are still differet in how they look even if they are of the same species but with different locality!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

This forum is species "IDENTIFICATION" if your species has been identified and you wish to discuss what type of equipment, tanks or water, please post at the appropriate forum.

There is no way to ID a fish from a specific locality unless it is the only species found in that region ---- for example; S. neveriensis is found closed off from a main body of water and not found anywhere else. IF you go there and fish it out yourself then you know where it is from. S. irritans is known only from Venezuela. It is found in certain rivers, its appearance alone WILL NOT tell you what river it is from. The same goes with all the other species. There are certain things that might "HINT" but all in all it is a guess on what river locality S. rhombeus might be from. River locality names (or common names) have no value in science, a dealer can name a fish whatever he wants to and sell it as such. You the hobbyist much be educated enough to know the actual species and know where it MIGHT be actually from.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

hastatus said:


> This forum is species "IDENTIFICATION" if your species has been identified and you wish to discuss what type of equipment, tanks or water, please post at the appropriate forum.
> 
> There is no way to ID a fish from a specific locality unless it is the only species found in that region ---- for example; S. neveriensis is found closed off from a main body of water and not found anywhere else. IF you go there and fish it out yourself then you know where it is from. S. irritans is known only from Venezuela. It is found in certain rivers, its appearance alone WILL NOT tell you what river it is from. The same goes with all the other species. There are certain things that might "HINT" but all in all it is a guess on what river locality S. rhombeus might be from. River locality names (or common names) have no value in science, a dealer can name a fish whatever he wants to and sell it as such. You the hobbyist much be educated enough to know the actual species and know where it MIGHT be actually from.


 So what do you think it is frank?


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

i only said it was from ven and a rhombesu cause it was a rhomb and looks exactly like the varient i have which i found mixed with irritans in an aquarium. because they look alot alike when very small


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

What do I think it is? The fish in the first photo looks very much like a very young S. rhombeus, locality unknown.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

hastatus said:


> What do I think it is? The fish in the first photo looks very much like a very young S. rhombeus, locality unknown.


 Thank you Sir


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## gbert15 (Jul 20, 2004)

Thanks guys for the help!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> cretinHOP Posted on Aug 17 2004, 04:30 PM
> i only said it was from ven and *a rhombesu cause it was a rhomb and looks exactly like the varient i have which i found mixed with irritans in an aquarium. *because they look alot alike when very small


Which is why you should be careful with making an assumption like that. (This is not meant to criticize you but to help), just because a fish is mixed in like that doesn't mean the fish originates from the river where S. irritans is found. I can't say this enough, the only way you will know for certain on locality is if you pull the fish out yourself. It is not uncommon to find mixes of fishes from different localities. Majority of the exporters originate from the same place and mixing of fishes does happen before it gets to the stateside dealer and into your tank.


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

yeah i bought it from george all of the fish in his tanks are marked with a locality sticker..ven..BR etc theya ll were from venezuela when he first got them in he thought they were all ven rhombs because maybe thats what he was told he posted pics of them and you told him they were irritans...which almost ALL of them are but in that group of maybe 30 irritans i happened to find 2 s.rhombeus by looking at the tail(caudal band) and slightly different spotting man was it hard to tell the difference. IMPOSSIBLE really besides those 2 factors atthat size. they look almost exactly the same.and dont worry about critisizing too much i like to learn and it can also be positive. thanks anyways..jason


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## cretinHOP (Jun 23, 2004)

my avatar..2 inch ven rhomb


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Juvenile piranas, S. rhombeus in particular start out having a dark basal area (where the caudal fin ends extending out to a "V"). Often the tail edge is hyaline to just a light border barely seen. That's where the problems begin, once the fish starts to color up and mature. I've seen S. rhombeus from Argentina look like this, confused for S. irritans later turned out to be S. rhombeus. Its a common mistake.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

thats definately not an irritan. i got one and the caudal fin is different. its a rhom.


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