# I would like to start a planted tank dippy



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Alright bare with the newbie here-(I'm about as retarted as they come to learning new things)-
I will be starting with a 55 gal-
lighting will be -nova extreme T-5-48 inch 432 watts-eight 54 watts- or- T-5-216 watts-4-54 watts
Substrate will be a florite and gravel mix-Unless told differently
filtration will be an emp 280-penguin 330-and a hot magnum pro system
i will be running a co2 setup-dont know what exactly yet- probably dr foster and smiths semi auto co2 set up-Will this be suffecient enough for my setup?

So what i would basically like to know-Am i going to have n e probs so far that n e one can see-suggestions on what to do here would be great-









I would like to run some misc fish in here as well!!!!


----------



## NeXuS (Aug 16, 2006)

u can find some great size co2 tanks on ebay u can get a 20lb cylander and the co2 will last u a long time.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

NeXuS said:


> u can find some great size co2 tanks on ebay u can get a 20lb cylander and the co2 will last u a long time.


Thanks but with shipping-I am better off buying local-Shipping to alaska is a killer!!!







I appreciate the info though!!!!


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> Alright bare with the newbie here-(I'm about as retarted as they come to learning new things)-
> I will be starting with a 55 gal-
> lighting will be -nova extreme T-5-48 inch 432 watts-eight 54 watts- or- T-5-216 watts-4-54 watts
> Substrate will be a florite and gravel mix-Unless told differently
> ...


I have come to the conclusion i will be adding my albino senegal,spiny yellow tail eel-maybe a fire eel-and a clean up crew of some sort-Help here would be greatly appreciated as well!!!!


----------



## NeXuS (Aug 16, 2006)

i am sure he will help once he gets online i guess he is the only person that really knows about plants lol


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

NeXuS said:


> i am sure he will help once he gets online i guess he is the only person that really knows about plants lol


LOl-There is alot ofpeople here that knows about plants-I just wish someone would chime in before I get off work though!!!!But the one thing I have-Is lots of time


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

ok. heres my take. the eels are going to cause you a horible headache keeping the plants down cause they like to burrow in substrate. Including the poly. 
howver s to the substrate. I would go full flourite or mix with another benificial substrate such as soilmaster or Schultz.

Those filters are going to be more detrimental to your cause then anything else. because wit the bio wheels the water gets ALOT of air contact. that means the CO2 that you're pumping into the tank is comming right back out. However that hot magnum will be fine so long as you have the return goign right into the tank instead of thru the bio wheel attachment. 
teh DR foster smith semi auto. Great lookin kit IMO I may wind up going that route as well once I get some extra coin. 
I think a collection of (and don't chastize me on this one) is pretty fish. rainbows and cherry barbs and all those stupid cutisey feeders. Or at least anything that aren't going to bite at the plants or dig them up. Neons and stupid fish like that. 
For the lighting
T-5-216 watts-4-54 watts. 
Save yourself some coin. Unless you are specifically looking for plants that need 8wpg its just too much IMO. 
On my 75 I'm running 2wpg at 150w and on the 20l I'm pushing 3.25wpg at 65w.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> ok. heres my take. the eels are going to cause you a horible headache keeping the plants down cause they like to burrow in substrate. Including the poly.
> howver s to the substrate. I would go full flourite or mix with another benificial substrate such as soilmaster or Schultz.
> 
> *Those filters are going to be more detrimental to your cause then anything else. because wit the bio wheels the water gets ALOT of air contact. that means the CO2 that you're pumping into the tank is comming right back out.* However that hot magnum will be fine so long as you have the return goign right into the tank instead of thru the bio wheel attachment.
> ...


Thanks for the help bs420-Just acouple notes here-My senegal hangs out at the top of my tank-deffenitly not a bottom dweller by n e means-As for the eels i can stay away from them for the most part-
For my co2 i will be running that through a powerhead not my filters-Will i still have problems with this!!!!should i rip out the bio wheels from other filters!!!!
As far as the co2 setup goes-i have already purchased this-so i hope i didnt go wrong by doing this!!!!!
As far as lighting goes-i have already purchased this as well and have it sitting at home-Hope I didn't go wrong here either!!!!

So n e thing major going on with the info i have provided now!!!!!If so-what needs to be changed sir!!!
And as far as plants go-what can i grow with this setup?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> lighting will be -nova extreme T-5-48 inch 432 watts










overkill! One false move there, and you will have an algea farm in under 10 hrs lol


> - T-5-216 watts-4-54 watts


That is more like it, but, I have 220w over my 75g, and it gets tough at times. Stay on top of it, you should be ok


> Substrate will be a florite and gravel mix


That is fine, but try to have at least 80% flourite.. the old gravel always makes it to the surface, making it hard to plant small foreground plants..


> filtration will be an emp 280-penguin 330-and a hot magnum pro system


The emp will kick your CO2 in the butt, if you can't get the splash down to basically a tiny ripple. I think the Magnum can be positioned below the water's surface, which is good.


> i will be running a co2 setup-dont know what exactly yet- probably dr foster and smiths semi auto co2 set up-Will this be suffecient enough for my setup?


CHeck Ebay for possibly a better deal..search for Milwaukee CO2 regulator, or JBJ, or a Milwaukee regulator/controller deal.


> So what i would basically like to know-Am i going to have n e probs so far that n e one can see-


I can tell you that there is a learning curb in going high tech planted, for sure! Algea happens, and you are the only one that can stop it, or clean it! And the best way to deal with algea is continually removing it from the glass and substrate before it becomes a problem that you surely don't want to deal with. *oh yeah, and tweaking your setup, or your dosing, will fight the problem.
If you are planning on big fish, don't overstock, in fact understock so that you have room for lots of plants. Plus big fish can wreck your tank, depending on their behavior. 
So, no matter what, you are going to run into problems. It is part of the learning process. But we are here to try to help you make minimal mistakes.. I made so many mistakes in the beginning, it ain't funny.. I'm glad I stuck with easy to grow plants at first, because I would have lost my investment!
Read this  if you haven't yet, and try to understand as best as you can, then feel free to ask more questions. Make certan that you have everything you need before turning that bright light on over your tank.. You can get many problems from starting your tank without everything you need first.
I have been bogged down doing lots of stuff lately, but I will try to work on the algea section in that thread ASAP.
Glad to hear you are taking the 'dive' into the planted tank realm!


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

LOL that didn't work :rasp:

JUST PRACTICING MY QUOTE STUFF HERE-


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

the problem with the Emp 280 (and I was using one at first as well) is the spray bar. you simply cannot disable it. And thats where you are going to be losing the most CO2. because there is HUGE surface agatation whereever that spray bar points to either back into teh overflow of the filter or straght out to the tank or over the bio wheel. Thats where you are goign to have th loss of CO2 not so much at the point where the water goes back into the tank.
Howver the Penguins Dont have the spray bar so you can get away with that one if you remove the bio wheel. But IMO the magnum should do fine. those are rated pretty high for circulation. and in all reality your plants are going to be doing the majoirty of your bio filtration anyhow. Thats why I went with a AC filter instead of the Emp. And altho the CO2 will be goign in to the tank thru the power head. the filter will still be turning over the water in the tank and leaching out your CO2.

If you already bought those lights thats ok. Just unplug a couple of the bulbs so that you have the right amount of light.

I really like the eco complete for substrate. If you havent already bought the flourite you may consider Eco instead. Up to you tho. I still like the schultz aquatic tho, just because its so much cheaper.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> the problem with the Emp 280 (and I was using one at first as well) is the spray bar. you simply cannot disable it. And thats where you are going to be losing the most CO2. because there is HUGE surface agatation whereever that spray bar points to either back into teh overflow of the filter or straght out to the tank or over the bio wheel. Thats where you are goign to have th loss of CO2 not so much at the point where the water goes back into the tank.
> Howver the Penguins Dont have the spray bar so you can get away with that one if you remove the bio wheel. But IMO the magnum should do fine. those are rated pretty high for circulation. and in all reality your plants are going to be doing the majoirty of your bio filtration anyhow. Thats why I went with a AC filter instead of the Emp. And altho the CO2 will be goign in to the tank thru the power head. the filter will still be turning over the water in the tank and leaching out your CO2.
> 
> If you already bought those lights thats ok. Just unplug a couple of the bulbs so that you have the right amount of light.
> ...


Thanks again-I now understand what you mean with the emp-I will change that to another bigger ac or penguin then!!!!Yeah my lights will be 216 watts not the 400 watts setup-LOL-I have around 10 bags of the flourite already-Should i buy some eco-complete to mix with this instaed of gravel!!!!!Oh yeah forgot to mention i have the whole line up of accell(sp) ferts as well!!!!!









Oh yeah one more thing-i ripped all the original bulbs out and have replaced with-wow i will have to get that info later-I cant remember!!!!


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

nahh no need to mix the substrates. you should be ok with the flourite. As to the filter if you can get a small cannister that really would be the best option since you can set the return well below the water line.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> nahh no need to mix the substrates. you should be ok with the flourite. As to the filter if you can get a small cannister that really would be the best option since you can set the return well below the water line.


Gotcha sir!!!!!!Filter wise I guess I will run the following then-Magnum pro-penguin 330 and a xp1-No need to mix substrates but will i be gaining n e thing by doing so-if no-then I shall leave that alone too!!!!


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

I was actually pictuing an XP1 in my head when I was mentioning the cannister. I also seen these small cannisters for reptile tanks yesterday at the petco here that I was thinking would work well if one can be gotten cheaply. 
I honestly don't think you will be needing that much filtration on the tank. the plants are going to be doing the majority of work. filter is mainly to remove debris and to have water circulation. I think the Magnum and the Xp would be more then enough. depending on what kinda fish you wind up having in there. I would try and avoid the standard HOB if possible since you will have much better alternitives there.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> I was actually pictuing an XP1 in my head when I was mentioning the cannister. I also seen these small cannisters for reptile tanks yesterday at the petco here that I was thinking would work well if one can be gotten cheaply.
> I honestly don't think you will be needing that much filtration on the tank. the plants are going to be doing the majority of work. filter is mainly to remove debris and to have water circulation. I think the Magnum and the Xp would be more then enough. depending on what kinda fish you wind up having in there. I would try and avoid the standard HOB if possible since you will have much better alternitives there.


yeah sorry-I'm a nut for filtration on my tanks!!!!!!I like my water better than crystal clear!!!!!!I will get a start on all of this in the next couple of days,and update with some pics--

What kind of suggestions could you give me for some plant idea's-Where is a good place to buy some plants!!!!!!I do not trust my lfs!!!!!!!!







Thanks again 420


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

AKSkirmish said:


> I was actually pictuing an XP1 in my head when I was mentioning the cannister. I also seen these small cannisters for reptile tanks yesterday at the petco here that I was thinking would work well if one can be gotten cheaply.
> I honestly don't think you will be needing that much filtration on the tank. the plants are going to be doing the majority of work. filter is mainly to remove debris and to have water circulation. I think the Magnum and the Xp would be more then enough. depending on what kinda fish you wind up having in there. I would try and avoid the standard HOB if possible since you will have much better alternitives there.


yeah sorry-I'm a nut for filtration on my tanks!!!!!!I like my water better than crystal clear!!!!!!I will get a start on all of this in the next couple of days,and update with some pics--

What kind of suggestions could you give me for some plant idea's-Where is a good place to buy some plants!!!!!!I do not trust my lfs!!!!!!!!







Thanks again 420
[/quote]

The best place I've bought plants from is Dippy. aside from that theres ebay. but I have had two bad exp's buying online from unknown sellers. the first one sent me parisite infested plants. had weird leach looking worms in one bag and was full of dead bugs in the other and smelt like death. 
the second time I got my sag sab. and that was great and fine tho I did get some amount of die off. (expected after the shock of shipping) but the Java moss she sent me was all crap clippings. and instead of contacting her right awy I gave it a little while because most times it takes a bit for it to recover. but it didn't it all just died off. It wasen't in good condition to begin with. She had sent me trimmings. and they died because of the double shock. 
So needless to say I am weary of who I order plants from online. 
Aside from there I do have one LFS that really keeps up on their selection of plants. But they are a tad pricey. 
a good place to get direct from hobbiest growers is on APC. 
and when Dips has some that he';s cleaning out its a good idea to jump on some cause like I said. TOP quality growth.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> I was actually pictuing an XP1 in my head when I was mentioning the cannister. I also seen these small cannisters for reptile tanks yesterday at the petco here that I was thinking would work well if one can be gotten cheaply.
> I honestly don't think you will be needing that much filtration on the tank. the plants are going to be doing the majority of work. filter is mainly to remove debris and to have water circulation. I think the Magnum and the Xp would be more then enough. depending on what kinda fish you wind up having in there. I would try and avoid the standard HOB if possible since you will have much better alternitives there.


yeah sorry-I'm a nut for filtration on my tanks!!!!!!I like my water better than crystal clear!!!!!!I will get a start on all of this in the next couple of days,and update with some pics--

What kind of suggestions could you give me for some plant idea's-Where is a good place to buy some plants!!!!!!I do not trust my lfs!!!!!!!!







Thanks again 420
[/quote]

The best place I've bought plants from is Dippy. aside from that theres ebay. but I have had two bad exp's buying online from unknown sellers. the first one sent me parisite infested plants. had weird leach looking worms in one bag and was full of dead bugs in the other and smelt like death. 
the second time I got my sag sab. and that was great and fine tho I did get some amount of die off. (expected after the shock of shipping) but the Java moss she sent me was all crap clippings. and instead of contacting her right awy I gave it a little while because most times it takes a bit for it to recover. but it didn't it all just died off. It wasen't in good condition to begin with. She had sent me trimmings. and they died because of the double shock. 
So needless to say I am weary of who I order plants from online. 
Aside from there I do have one LFS that really keeps up on their selection of plants. But they are a tad pricey. 
a good place to get direct from hobbiest growers is on APC. 
and when Dips has some that he';s cleaning out its a good idea to jump on some cause like I said. TOP quality growth.
[/quote]

Kewl-i too have been shafted with buying online-I wont do it again!!!!(unless highly talked of)!!!!I will hit dippy up for some plants!!!!!!!!Thanks








Although i might pm you later on and see if you can help me out with plants as well!!!!!We will just have to see what the future holds


----------



## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

AKSkirmish said:


> I was actually pictuing an XP1 in my head when I was mentioning the cannister. I also seen these small cannisters for reptile tanks yesterday at the petco here that I was thinking would work well if one can be gotten cheaply.
> I honestly don't think you will be needing that much filtration on the tank. the plants are going to be doing the majority of work. filter is mainly to remove debris and to have water circulation. I think the Magnum and the Xp would be more then enough. depending on what kinda fish you wind up having in there. I would try and avoid the standard HOB if possible since you will have much better alternitives there.


yeah sorry-I'm a nut for filtration on my tanks!!!!!!I like my water better than crystal clear!!!!!!I will get a start on all of this in the next couple of days,and update with some pics--

What kind of suggestions could you give me for some plant idea's-Where is a good place to buy some plants!!!!!!I do not trust my lfs!!!!!!!!







Thanks again 420
[/quote]

The best place I've bought plants from is Dippy. aside from that theres ebay. but I have had two bad exp's buying online from unknown sellers. the first one sent me parisite infested plants. had weird leach looking worms in one bag and was full of dead bugs in the other and smelt like death. 
the second time I got my sag sab. and that was great and fine tho I did get some amount of die off. (expected after the shock of shipping) but the Java moss she sent me was all crap clippings. and instead of contacting her right awy I gave it a little while because most times it takes a bit for it to recover. but it didn't it all just died off. It wasen't in good condition to begin with. She had sent me trimmings. and they died because of the double shock. 
So needless to say I am weary of who I order plants from online. 
Aside from there I do have one LFS that really keeps up on their selection of plants. But they are a tad pricey. 
a good place to get direct from hobbiest growers is on APC. 
and when Dips has some that he';s cleaning out its a good idea to jump on some cause like I said. TOP quality growth.
[/quote]

Kewl-i too have been shafted with buying online-I wont do it again!!!!(unless highly talked of)!!!!I will hit dippy up for some plants!!!!!!!!Thanks








Although i might pm you later on and see if you can help me out with plants as well!!!!!We will just have to see what the future holds








[/quote]

Depending on what types of plants you are looking for I may be able to hook you up too... shoot me a PM with what you are looking for... even if you arent ready now I will at least know not to sell it to someone else.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Sorry, I was busy, and could not chime in.. lol.. I guess Mr Sunshine had it covered!!








Make SURE you have all that you need before you turn the light on in there for any extended period of time(it's a bright light).
And also make sure your plant mass is up there. The cool thing about having a healthy tank going is, that after that, you can set up another tank easy, with the overgrowth from the other.

Your Foster&Smith regulator should be fine.. do you have your cylander yet?


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

I will answer everyone fully in the morning,thanks for the help everyone!!!!!And rizman-I will be purchasing soon!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

It was only a matter of time that other P-fury members started trading/selling plants!!
I'm stoked!


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Hahah well Joe it is really largely in part because of you. You do well to inspire with your aquascaping. And you help has made a confusing part of the hobby a little more understandable.

**edit** a lot more understandable.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Hahah well Joe it is really largely in part because of you. You do well to inspire with your aquascaping. And you help has made a confusing part of the hobby a little more understandable.
> 
> **edit** a lot more understandable.


Thank you! Your extra box is on its way lol j/k


----------



## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Hahah well Joe it is really largely in part because of you. You do well to inspire with your aquascaping. And you help has made a confusing part of the hobby a little more understandable.
> 
> **edit** a lot more understandable.










Very true... I should soon be able to help people out quite a bit... though my LFS is also excited to be able to get some locally grown plants consistantly so Ill have to split it between the two... especially since the girl at the LFS can get me stuff from Singapore... gotta stay in her good graces


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> especially since the girl at the LFS can get me stuff from Singapore... gotta stay in her good graces


OOOH! what can she get, I want a list









lol, only if you can swing it lol


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

therizman1 said:


> especially since the girl at the LFS can get me stuff from Singapore... gotta stay in her good graces :nod:


For sure you gotta keep us in the loop on that one.











> Thank you! Your extra box is on its way lol j/k










lol


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Sorry, I was busy, and could not chime in.. lol.. I guess Mr Sunshine had it covered!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not A problem sir-I am a patient guy-Sort of-!!!!I think I have most of what I need for this setup already!!!!I do not have a cylinder yet-Where should I look locally-A welding supply store should carry them right!!!!!What size do I need sir!!!!Will ne size do?What do you mean by plant mass-Quantity maybe-


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> I do not have a cylinder yet-Where should I look locally-A welding supply store should carry them right!!!!













> What size do I need sir!!!!Will ne size do?


any size will do, but the bigger, the less times you have to go get it filled again.. my 20lb cylander has been running on my 75g for a year..lol


> What do you mean by plant mass-Quantity


I mean that you have to have a good ratio of plant mass as opposed to open space in the tank when you first plant it.
Your tank will be able to balance out much more quickly when you plant heavily from the start, especially in high lighted tanks. In low light setups, it helps everything for sure, but in high light, it is almost a necessity.
So load it up as best as you can from the start.. you don't have to have tall plants, but they have to just be there..
Stem plants in the back always.. Bushy plants mostly in the middle to hide the bottom stems, and short plants up front is a basic rule that can and should be broken, but is the general rule to get you started..


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > I do not have a cylinder yet-Where should I look locally-A welding supply store should carry them right!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Every thing sounds good-Sounds like I just need to get this up and going and go from there!!!!!N e idea on how much one of them cylinders will run me-Guesstimate!!!!I will start to rip my tank apart pretty soon and get some pics up for everyone!!!!!Thanks for the help everyone as well!!!!!I just need to get a plant list together I guess!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I don't know exactly, but I looked around for a deal, and found 2 20lb cylanders for 60$!! -now that is a steal!

it will probably be 60$ for a 10-15lb cylander or so

just make sure you don't put the lights on full blast until you get your plants


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I don't know exactly, but I looked around for a deal, and found 2 20lb cylanders for 60$!! -now that is a steal!
> 
> it will probably be 60$ for a 10-15lb cylander or so
> 
> just make sure you don't put the lights on full blast until you get your plants


Sounds good-Thats very affordable!!!!!!Once i have my plants in i'm good to go-I just need to figure out my dosing crap next!!!!!







Thanks for the help everyone!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

read the pinned topic on that.. and then ask questions









Macros have targeted ppm values that can be followed. But that is a general rule, and sometimes needs to be broken, once things settle down over here, I was going to write on algea and how to deal with some common varieties.
Micros, no matter what has been said before, does my tank good in fairly big amounts for me. We will go over that later.. with your light and that 55g tank, you will be dosing quite a bit.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> read the pinned topic on that.. and then ask questions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Off to see if I can make heads or tails of this pinned topic!!!!

/has a good feeling that he is going to get really confused with this part of it!!!

Will update to let you know how i'm doing with this learning curve-In awhile!!!


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Will the cyllinders for painball guns work? cause you can get those at walmart for pretty cheap. 20oz'ers. wonder how long that would last. Cause red seas makes a kit that DR F&S sell for around 120 that you can use whose with. 
you might need an adapter for your system to screw into that but that might work for the meantime if you can't find a good big cylinder.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Will the cyllinders for painball guns work? cause you can get those at walmart for pretty cheap. 20oz'ers. wonder how long that would last. Cause red seas makes a kit that DR F&S sell for around 120 that you can use whose with.
> you might need an adapter for your system to screw into that but that might work for the meantime if you can't find a good big cylinder.


I think the nozzle on the paintball CO2 cylanders is a lot smaller than aquarium CO2 regulators.. I have no idea about the adaptors..


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Heh, I have two 20lb cylinders just laying around, I'll get around to getting a regulator for them one of these years....

I've always wondered if propane tanks or air tanks would work.

AK, I see your getting flourite, and if I can stir you I would reccomend Eco-Complete (much better my opinion) or possibly Schultz (very affordable). Also, no matter what you do, mixing the substrates together would be one of the last things I would do, as you can never remove them later.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Tibs said:


> Heh, I have two 20lb cylinders just laying around, I'll get around to getting a regulator for them one of these years....
> 
> I've always wondered if propane tanks or air tanks would work.
> 
> AK, I see your getting flourite, and if I can stir you I would reccomend Eco-Complete (much better my opinion) or possibly Schultz (very affordable). Also, no matter what you do, mixing the substrates together would be one of the last things I would do, as you can never remove them later.


hey, you have your opinion,

But I have 2 buddies that are exellent plant growers, 1 has Eco complete, the other flourite.
It doesn't matter at all. They both grow outstanding plants, and they have 2 different styles of growing. 
I use flourite as well. I'm not complaining.
Another guy, and myself has used the Shultz with great success with that too. I don't really think a certain type of substrate will make or break you, it is your willingness to do what it takes to keep a healthy planted aquarium.

Tibs as far as O2 or propane Cylanders. I wouldn't risk having anything but a true CO2 cylander in my living room. Those things can launch like missiles, and I don't wanna dig a foxhole in my couch anytime soon


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Yeah on more quick ?-How often does this flourite or (plant substrate) have to be changed-


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> Yeah on more quick ?-How often does this flourite or (plant substrate) have to be changed-


never.

If it runs out of iron, no worries, you can just dose more in the water column.

But every now and then, 10-12 months, I get sick of my tank and redo it.. but I leave the flourite in


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> hey, you have your opinion,
> 
> But I have 2 buddies that are exellent plant growers, 1 has Eco complete, the other flourite.
> It doesn't matter at all. They both grow outstanding plants, and they have 2 different styles of growing.
> ...


Yeah, I totally agree that the substrate will not make or break, and the only reason really that I recomended the Eco is because it requires very little to no cleaning, whereas the flourite is quite dirty. Eco is also pre-cultured. Nothing to do with plant growth.

Your probably right about those other cylinders, but being a DIY'er myself I cannot help but think


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> it requires very little to no cleaning, whereas the flourite is quite dirty.


well, this is true, but you are not supposed to wash flourite until it is clean though, just until the foamy stuff stops lol


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > it requires very little to no cleaning, whereas the flourite is quite dirty.
> 
> 
> well, this is true, but you are not supposed to wash flourite until it is clean though, just until the foamy stuff stops lol


Whats the best way to clean it dippy?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> > it requires very little to no cleaning, whereas the flourite is quite dirty.
> 
> 
> well, this is true, but you are not supposed to wash flourite until it is clean though, just until the foamy stuff stops lol


Whats the best way to clean it dippy?
[/quote]
the standard way, lol, putting a good bit in a bucket or something, adding water, stirring it around a bit; dump; repeat until the foamy, nasty stuff goes away









When you add water to your tank, I would dump the water on a plate or something, as to not disturb the substrate, because it can create quite a dusty cloud


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

I refill my tank by having some rocks stragitacally placed into a bowl fashion to break the waters fall into the tank. The rocks are also a little away from any of the plants so that water dosen't uproot them.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Gotcha guys-"the standard way"Yeah I usually just poor over a house or something thats inside the tank-doubt i will have n e houses in this tank-so thanks for the rock and plate idea


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> Gotcha guys-"the standard way"Yeah I usually just poor over a house or something thats inside the tank-doubt i will have n e houses in this tank-so thanks for the rock and plate idea










-works great


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Just to let everyone know where I'm at on all of this-I have everything I will need to try this out and see where I'm going to go with all of this-I just need to get off of my lazy ass and do it!!!once i buy my plants in the next couple of days-i will get this on a roll-and get pics up for everyone!!!!Thats it for now!!!







All the help from everyone is greatly appreciated!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Awesome!
Just be prepared that plant keeping is something we all have to get used to, and will not be beautiful overnight









There is patience and work involved, as well as fizzling brain power lol j/k lol
I just want you to be aware that it most likely will not go super smooth, but rather pretty bumpy for the first 6 months or so, depending how green your thumb is lol

I don't want to see you give up before a year is out.. It can get baffling, and frustrating at times.. you simply have to develop a love for it, and persistance to follow through


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Awesome!
> Just be prepared that plant keeping is something we all have to get used to, and will not be beautiful overnight
> 
> 
> ...


LOl-Thanks dippy-If all goes as planned i plan on sticking with it-i would love to end up with beautiful looking tanks(like someone I know







).I understand It will be hard-But I think the part your not understanding is when I get into all of this-I am a very hard person to explain things to-I also have a reading disability that hinders me-so reading and understanding things is not my strong point-I do alot better with visual demenstrations(which I realize it will only compound things)!!!!!You guys will get tired of me before this is all over with-It always happens!!!!Just be patient with me buddie and I will be patient with the planted tank-LOL


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> LOl-Thanks dippy-If all goes as planned i plan on sticking with it-i would love to end up with beautiful looking tanks(like someone I know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yo!
I do not think you are hard to communicate with! Plus, I love answering questions! there is a lot of info in the pinned section of this forum that can really help too, plus a bunch of knowledgeable ppl here that love to help! There is a wealth of info here, but that only goes so far in this hobby LOL

I really want your tank to be awesome! You are going for it with high tech equipment! (hehe) I really want you, and all the other serious ppl, to be very successful with their tanks!
I really just want you to be prepared for some of the ugly moments in plant keeping! -Trust me, there will be ugly moments lol
and if you are prepared fo rsome bad times in your tank, then you will be less likely to put it down. This is an interesting hobby, and I think your setup has excellent potential!
I can't wait for your journal to get started! ~get on them photo's, soldier!


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> LOl-Thanks dippy-If all goes as planned i plan on sticking with it-i would love to end up with beautiful looking tanks(like someone I know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yo!
I do not think you are hard to communicate with! Plus, I love answering questions! there is a lot of info in the pinned section of this forum that can really help too, plus a bunch of knowledgeable ppl here that love to help! There is a wealth of info here, but that only goes so far in this hobby LOL

I really want your tank to be awesome! You are going for it with high tech equipment! (hehe) I really want you, and all the other serious ppl, to be very successful with their tanks!
I really just want you to be prepared for some of the ugly moments in plant keeping! -Trust me, there will be ugly moments lol
and if you are prepared fo rsome bad times in your tank, then you will be less likely to put it down. This is an interesting hobby, and I think your setup has excellent potential!
I can't wait for your journal to get started! ~get on them photo's, soldier!








[/quote]

Thanks for the understanding-I'm starting to get impatient!!!!but i would love to do it right as well-oh I'm prepared for ugly moments-i dont see how I couldn't have them being a newbie at this!!!!it's only right that i have problems-or everyone would have planted tanks(although the more your around i think everyone will end up being live planted).I have invested a ton of money into this setup-so it will be something that i try to keep going for sure-I'm starting to get my temp tanks ready for the fish that are housed in this tank-Then i will break it down and get to cleaning it up!!!!Then setup and wait a day or two and then purchase my plants-of course through out all of this I will take pics of everything!!!!!!!!Have to run really quick but i will get started on this since my day off is tomarrow as well-Thanks Dippy!!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

never any sweat!


> I have invested a ton of money into this setup-so it will be something that i try to keep going for sure-


That is exactly what kept me going during those times when I felt like i could never think of growing any of those beautiful plants that everyone seemed to be growing with ease..
I had algea all over E tenellus, and Bacopa caroliniana..lol -some of the easiest, and fast growing plaants..


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Does ne one see a problem with my bulbs,this is the combo I have decided to run on my tank-Let me know if I should change something!!!!
Bulb One-far right in fixture(pitured upside down)
currentt5ho 54 watt 10,000k
Bulb two- right center
t5ho 54 watt-plant
bulb three left center
t5ho 54 watt 460nm actinic
bulb four far left
current t5ho 54 watt 6,700k

I put this combo together before I knew n e thing about plants-I like the combo of light for the colors of my fish and the nice blue glow it gives my tank as well,Hopefully this combo will be suffecient enough to run a planted tank with-Other wise it looks like I will be investing into some new bulbs!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm sorry, but actinic light does nothing for plants


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I'm sorry, but actinic light does nothing for plants


But it inhances my fishes colors like no other-So will I still be able to run this setup-or should I switch them out dippy!!!







I'm taking it switched-just want to be sure!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Not sure, Harrykaa could tell you more

I think I read where he says that algea love actinic lights in a planted tank. I know that plants do not use that spectrum, but as far as keeping it in your tank for looks, you can try it, but it might be just algea food lol


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Not sure, Harrykaa could tell you more
> 
> I think I read where he says that algea love actinic lights in a planted tank. I know that plants do not use that spectrum, but as far as keeping it in your tank for looks, you can try it, but it might be just algea food lol


I have ran this combo(or pretty close to it) on my 125 gal for over a year and a half-I have no problems with algea-AT ALL!!!!-







It's how I get my nice blue color to my tank-and it also inhances my fishes colors as well!!!I'll ask Harrykaa to take a look at this thread then-Thanks dippy!!!


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure algae loves the stuff. Only reason you likely had no algae in your other tank is because you weren't dosing and keeping plants. Even though that Nova Extreme light is awsome (have used them at work, T-5's rock!) I would say that it would be a bit much for your tank, and even though its possible, begginers usually are discouraged from high light setups (and your tank would have very high light) because when you get higher light, there is less room for error, if you slip up its likely to blow up with algae. You may wanna try just three bulbs (if you use actintics that would be ok) just to cut down on the light.

Food for thought.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Tibs said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure algae loves the stuff. Only reason you likely had no algae in your other tank is because you weren't dosing and keeping plants. Even though that Nova Extreme light is awsome (have used them at work, T-5's rock!) I would say that it would be a bit much for your tank, and even though its possible, begginers usually are discouraged from high light setups (and your tank would have very high light) because when you get higher light, there is less room for error, if you slip up its likely to blow up with algae. You may wanna try just three bulbs (if you use actintics that would be ok) just to cut down on the light.
> 
> Food for thought.


Appreciated Tibs-Thanks for the heads up!!!!!I will leave the actinic in and run the other's with it as well-Trial and error I guess!!!!!!


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

AK!! I think its high time we get an update on this planted project.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine said:


> AK!! I think its high time we get an update on this planted project.


I know man-It's been on my mind alot lately-I have actaully started to finally move stuff around-I have switched up my tank situations and now have an empty 40 gal breeder I think I will be starting on this in the near future-I will need help with setting up my co2 system cuase I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff-I have just been alittle bit scared on setting this up and having algea problems but I guess I will never get there if i just dont set it up and try at least-That and I have invested a small fortune into everything for this as well-I will get off my dead ass soon man and have some pics up once I get this started!!!


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

well what prompted me to find this post is a while back you have an O2 regulator you were interested in using for your CO2 system. 
At that time you were told no it iwll not work for whatever unsure reasons.

Over the last few days I have been doing alot of research and have come the conclusion that it will indeed work for you. As they are intended for inert gas's. Both O2 and CO2 are inert. and as such any regulator that works for O2 will also be useable on CO2. and the fittings should even match up fine. 
The only concern is it will be a manual setup. HOWEVER if the regulator has standard fittings on it you can install a silenoid inline on the regulator.infact a full automatic setup can be built pretty cheap compared to getting a regulator from one of the aquatic sites. 
25 for the regulator
30 for the silenoid
Aside from this all you would need is a needle valve after the silenoid to control the iner adjustments.

I felt it was important to come back to this and correct the mis info I gave you a while back.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine said:


> well what prompted me to find this post is a while back you have an O2 regulator you were interested in using for your CO2 system.
> At that time you were told no it iwll not work for whatever unsure reasons.
> 
> Over the last few days I have been doing alot of research and have come the conclusion that it will indeed work for you. As they are intended for inert gas's. Both O2 and CO2 are inert. and as such any regulator that works for O2 will also be useable on CO2. and the fittings should even match up fine.
> ...


Son of a bitch-I could have had this going alot sooner then-I really do appreciate the heads up on this sir!!!!!!! I will probably be contacting you in the next few days then on some serious ?'s on getting this started then-Thanks again BS


----------



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Sorry man. At the time I was pretty fresh myself and assumed to go with the safer answer. 
I hope that you have not incurred any undue costs in reguards to this. 
Tho keep in mind this setup would require a little DIY and possibly some slight modifications to the inlet/outlet of the regulator fitings. Minimal at best. But not a plug and play setup like you get with the prepackaged ones.

I'll be ordering my peices today so I can get rollin on my pressurized CO2 as well.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BlackSunshine said:


> Sorry man. At the time I was pretty fresh myself and assumed to go with the safer answer.
> I hope that you have not incurred any undue costs in reguards to this.
> Tho keep in mind this setup would require a little DIY and possibly some slight modifications to the inlet/outlet of the regulator fitings. Minimal at best. But not a plug and play setup like you get with the prepackaged ones.
> 
> I'll be ordering my peices today so I can get rollin on my pressurized CO2 as well.


Yeah I did spend some extra cash-But oh well man no biggie at all-i appreciate the safe answer,better safe than sorry-It's greatly appreciated.We will see what we can get going soon then!!!!!!!!I did buy the prepackaged stuff so it should be a snap to get going!!!!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

AK, a 40g breeder is one of the best sized tanks for a beautiful aquascape.








Don't worry about algea, you will get some :laugh: until you get used to maintaining a planted tank. Patience, asking questions, getting pics up, and manual labor are key there.. 
I have tons of plants right now, too bad you don't have it ready to go yet.. (having tons of plants is crucial in the beginning







)
I would send you a small jungle.. forget paying for shipping or anything, send me back a couple cool cigars! ..!!


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> AK, a 40g breeder is one of the best sized tanks for a beautiful aquascape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sounds really good dippy-I will get this setup going soon then man-I guess I will have to bring it out to my other shop and get started on this-Look for a new thread starting as soon as I can get this equipment moved out here!!!!!!







I dont know how long we have on the plant issue sir-But I will try my best to get this up and going-If I do not get this setup in time-Do not hold the plants for me man-Get rid of them when you have the chance-I ahve no problem waiting until things are right-I also have no problems sending you some cigars for trade on this issue!!!!! I compensate well for good help!!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

WOW COOL!
But seriously, you don't need to send a whole bunch of gars... I'm cheap lol

Ugh, I wish you needed plants right now, all of my plants are growing out of the top, and insane all over.. 
I need to get rid of over a bucket load.. But they grow back!


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> WOW COOL!
> But seriously, you don't need to send a whole bunch of gars... I'm cheap lol
> 
> Ugh, I wish you needed plants right now, all of my plants are growing out of the top, and insane all over..
> I need to get rid of over a bucket load.. But they grow back!


Sorry man-I always miss the good deals-But on another note-I should be moving this tank to my shop this comming sunday to start on it-So hopefully we should be getting to some serious ? some time next week-I look forward to this learning experience sir!!!!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> WOW COOL!
> But seriously, you don't need to send a whole bunch of gars... I'm cheap lol
> 
> Ugh, I wish you needed plants right now, all of my plants are growing out of the top, and insane all over..
> I need to get rid of over a bucket load.. But they grow back!


Sorry man-I always miss the good deals-But on another note-I should be moving this tank to my shop this comming sunday to start on it-So hopefully we should be getting to some serious ? some time next week-I look forward to this learning experience sir!!!!!!








[/quote]
Awesome!
It will be a learning process for sure! But isn't that the whole fun of it? Can't wait for the pics already lol


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> WOW COOL!
> But seriously, you don't need to send a whole bunch of gars... I'm cheap lol
> 
> Ugh, I wish you needed plants right now, all of my plants are growing out of the top, and insane all over..
> I need to get rid of over a bucket load.. But they grow back!


Sorry man-I always miss the good deals-But on another note-I should be moving this tank to my shop this comming sunday to start on it-So hopefully we should be getting to some serious ? some time next week-I look forward to this learning experience sir!!!!!!








[/quote]
Awesome!
It will be a learning process for sure! But isn't that the whole fun of it? Can't wait for the pics already lol
[/quote]
Hell yeah it is man-Sorry about it being a slow process-I wanted to get all of this going alot sooner-But I just haven't had the time!!!! It is now time to make time though







I got to much wrapped up in all of this to just give up on it now!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

--Take your time, trust me.. Do it when you are surely ready. It can get time consuming and messy, if a couple of things are allowed to go wrong for too long.
And that is the whole learning process







You learn what to look for, and what to do when certain things happen


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> --Take your time, trust me.. Do it when you are surely ready. It can get time consuming and messy, if a couple of things are allowed to go wrong for too long.
> And that is the whole learning process
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I am going to be taking my tank out to my shop this week!!!! I need to test my water out there-I got some funky sh*t going on in my other tank right now!!!! I still need to get a cylinder though and then I will have a complete setup-I know my tank will be a disaster at first-But thats ok-It will be fun learning-thanks dippy!!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Just remember to pack it full of plants from the get-go, and get those ferts & CO2 up to optimum levels, and it should be easier.
I say, as soon as something suspicious appears, get that camera crackin,' post some pics and tell us exactly how you are running the tank.
Oh, and be ready to get your arm wet lol


----------

