# The Haditha Massacre



## Guest (Jun 1, 2006)

An unfortunate story.



> Haditha Recounts a Deadly Day
> By Megan K. Stack and Raheem Salman
> Times Staff Writer
> 
> ...


Punishment?


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2006)

IF the Marines did it, I can understand their rage. Imagine driving through a city full of people and having a roadside IED detonated beside your truck -and nobody ever warning you!

You know damn well those people knew that bomb was there and they let you drive on top of it anyway. That's guilt by an act of omission, if not enablement of insurgent activity.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2006)

How do we know that?

And even if they did, does that warrant shooting the children?


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

I'm not sure what to think but I can understand being harrassed by insurgents would eventually lead to a murderous rage. It happened in Vietnam.

Is it right? Nope, but who am I to say anything on it. I can't say I wouldn'nt have done the same thing if my buddy was blown up. You never know till you're there.


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## AzNP (May 21, 2003)

At first glance of the article i totally felt that the marines have all the right in the world to be pissed but unfortunately they sank to new lows by targetting children and family. If u support what they did by saying stuff that you cant even confirm then you truly need to re-evaluate your position. If i was those marines n committed those acts i would face the consequences. Thats IF i ever sink to that level and i probably would not target the children anyways.

i would also face my punishments


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

The soldiers are going insane fighting an insane war, and incidents like this may keep happening until we get the hell out of there. If you want to blame anyone, blame the congress for not drawing up impeachment proceedings over a war based on deception and half-truths. Blame the general public for caring more about gas prices and material things than dead American soldiers and Iraqi civilians. Blame the media for not confronting the liars in charge.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

This situation is horrible and I dont think it can be chalked up to the fog or rage of war. The soldiers need to be brought to justice.


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## CichlidAddict (Jul 1, 2005)

It looks like they just ordered "values training" for troops over there.
Link


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2006)

It must just be emotionally draining over there, I cant even imagine.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Xenon said:


> This situation is horrible and I dont think it can be chalked up to the fog or rage of war. The soldiers need to be brought to justice.


 But it is the rage of war. Whenever you're fighting an enemy on their turf, and they can kill you without being seen, the end result is that rage is misdirected at innocent civilians, because they're the only ones visible.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

Fargo said:


> This situation is horrible and I dont think it can be chalked up to the fog or rage of war. The soldiers need to be brought to justice.


 But it is the rage of war. Whenever you're fighting an enemy on their turf, and they can kill you without being seen, the end result is that rage is misdirected at innocent civilians, because they're the only ones visible.
[/quote]
Oh, sh*t.. I'm glad you explained that.

Well then.. never mind, carry on. It was just an accident folks!


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

its war, sh*t happens. remember?


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Fido said:


> its war, sh*t happens. remember?


weren't you anti-war?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

yeah but i gave that up, takes too much effort.


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## Mykoe817 (Feb 13, 2005)

america offering 2,500 for each death? now think about it. isnt that kinda... umm... say... not right? i call this bs. something isnt right here...


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Fido said:


> yeah but i gave that up, takes too much effort.










_...when in rome, do what the romans do_?!


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

good for them 
thats what we shoulda been doing since day 1 
you kill the kids parents in front of them and they grow up to hate america
so kill them too 
there just little terrorists in training anyways 
we should nuked the hole dam desert over there 
and not let our men be in the situation

i mean come on 
with all there military training 
wich from what i heard starts at 9 years old 
cant they have there owen civil war to better there country 
there pussys who cant or dont want to defend themselfs 
and now bush thinks its our job 
well do the right job and eliminate the problem 
anyone who lives in the sand

the only problem i see here is they used hand held guns 
and actually pointed them at kids

shoot an RPG into the house next time 
and then those kids are just products of war

we need to defend our soldiers 
and not make judgements of there actions from a million miles away
how many kids are loaded with explosives to bomb our troops 
these are people with no morals 
they need to be delt with , with the same force they give

DO UNTO PEOPLE AS WISH WISH PEOPLE TO DO UNTO YOU

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
or those commie bastards will be on our soil killing our kids one day


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2006)

ProdigalMarine said:


> yeah but i gave that up, takes too much effort.


:laugh: _...when in rome, do what the romans do_?!
[/quote]

What the hell does this have to do with being anti-war? I dont care if you are Republican, Democrat, hippy or neocon...its just not righIwhat happened here. This has nothing to do with politics, its a HUMAN issue.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

court marshalled and sentenced to death. that sort of crap shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. a roadside ied going off does not justify needlessly slaying entire families, innocent bystanders and random passersby.


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

jeez luiz


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

DannyBoy17 said:


> yeah but i gave that up, takes too much effort.


:laugh: _...when in rome, do what the romans do_?!
[/quote]

What the hell does this have to do with being anti-war? I dont care if you are Republican, Democrat, hippy or neocon...its just not righIwhat happened here. This has nothing to do with politics, its a HUMAN issue.
[/quote]

It simply means that theres no point in arguing a pointless argue. Fido, in the past, has made his stance clear that he doesn't support the war but supports the troops, so instead of bringing back the past and beating his dead horse about his stance, he's just agreeing to disagree.

Besides....I was just poking fun at him and he poked me back.

It goes way beyond the "humane" issue. 
You werent there when it happend. I wasnt there it happened. 
The only personnel who knows what happened were the Marines and the civilians who witnessed the "massacre". For all we know, there could HAVE been an infestation of insurgents in the area POSING as civilians. sh*t has happened in the past where Marines mistook the insurgents as civilians and got killed. Theres two sides, both are grey'd out. Whatever the outcome is, the US somehow gets kicked in the ass because of it.

I didnt want to get into this debate because its not my place to voice my opinion. I've been out there, came back alive and going out there once more...I know the stresses that the Marines took on when they patrolled the streets of Fallujah and Najaf. You dont just stop and walk up to a family of unsuspecting iraqis AFTER your Marine gets blown to f*cking sh*t....(i fortunately never got to witness such an event because I was the few "lucky" ones)


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2006)

Not humane, HUMAN. Compassion is needed for both sides.

Prod, if I went and killed 20 people on my street, just after my dad was killed on that street 5 mins earlier in a car crash...would you be so forgiving? Those civilians may have known that that turn was icy. So now them, and there children deserve death, and I deserve nothing but respect and pardoning? I dont think Im being "anti-American" or "anti-War", I think I am being pro-Human. The soldiers made a very human response but its not something I think our western society accepts. If it is, what are we fighting for? Im sure the people who were slaughtered by Hussien were were some threat to him, how is this any different?

I think these soldiers know what theyve done, and I think they realize how terrible of a mistake they made. Last night they showed a shot of them right after, just standing with thier heads down. You dont hang your head in shame after killing someone who didnt deserve to die.

Im not claiming to understand exactly what happened. Im not claiming to know all the facts either. But I do know that if I ever did something like this (if the story is true, if not, the media is to blame) I would want my actions to be brought to justice, because I believe in what our society claims to stand for. Sure we could say "its just war, this is what happens" but we (the west) would lose all credibility for the next time we try to peach peace, fairness and justice.

I thought Id never get involved in a topic like this again, but this one struck a cord in me. I hope I didnt offend anyone, as I promise you that was not my intention.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2006)

Bump for the night crew.


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## chomp chomp (Oct 28, 2003)

I am not defending a criminal act by a Soldier but it is funny that this thread was made on Memorial Day. I mean come on, I have friends whom are Marines and this anti US propoganda is not needed on a National holiday.

I wish people would focus on the sacrafices a soldier makes rather than the mistakes a few bad apples.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

And how do we know if the Marines did this?
Wouldn't you think that the terrorist did this to frame our troops?
Why not, they even kill their own people of the same faith?


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Hemi said:


> good for them
> thats what we shoulda been doing since day 1
> you kill the kids parents in front of them and they grow up to hate america
> so kill them too
> ...


Wow.

I want some of whatever you're on.

But seriously - I'd love to know where you get your facts and how you've been instilled with such a blatantly racist attitude.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

:laugh: Hey look at me ma, I got nothing better to do with my life but sit on a fish site 24/7 and persecute people with there lives on the line all day every day, and run my mouth off about sh*t I dont have a clue about nor will ever have the balls to ever know about (which hey is your "given" right







).. This post is a joke, 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, me responding to this crap is a joke, but i love comedy and if I can for one second put a mirror in front of your pewter screen or bring a glimps of reality into your virtual life...well that'd be the pay off







..

If you find it distasteful for me to judge you based on the glimps I got of you on this site and concludeing that all you do is sit on a pc all day with your head up your ass, and are saying to yourself, "hey, he doesnt know me and is not here to judge my situation, I do other things like touch my self to monkey porn inbetween multiple trips to the fridgerator", well your right I dont know sh*t about your situation nor do I give a sh*t..So why go out of my way to run my mouth off about sh*t I haven't got a clue about?? Well I dont know, you tell me..


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2006)

> :laugh: Hey look at me ma, I got nothing better to do with my life but sit on a fish site 24/7 and persecute people with there lives on the line all day every day, and run my mouth off about sh*t I dont have a clue about nor will ever have the balls to ever know about (which hey is your "given" right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont run my mouth about anyone, I have the mental capacity to discuss an issue without becoming an emotional, "look at me, Im patriotic" fool, who cant come up with any good points so he has to resort to trying to "pwn" people on the internet. Feel like a big man? BTW, havent I seen you on other forums? I spend half the time most people do on the net everyday, the only difference is I only come on here (at school) or use Trillion (at home).



> This post is a joke, 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, me responding to this crap is a joke, but i love comedy and if I can for one second put a mirror in front of your pewter screen or bring a glimps of reality into your virtual life...well that'd be the pay off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess world events are a joke, human loss is a joke, children being killed by soldiers is a joke? Of course we dont know exactly what happened. But by your logic, we shouldnt believe anything in history. Because if someone else said it, and you werent there to see it, we'll never know and therefor shouldnt judge.



> If you find it distasteful for me to judge you based on the glimps I got of you on this site and concludeing that all you do is sit on a pc all day with your head up your ass, and are saying to yourself, "hey, he doesnt know me and is not here to judge my situation, I do other things like touch my self to monkey porn inbetween multiple trips to the fridgerator", well your right I dont know sh*t about your situation nor do I give a sh*t..So why go out of my way to run my mouth off about sh*t I haven't got a clue about?? Well I dont know, you tell me..


Yep, I spend quite a bit of time on my computer. Its just a fact of my life right now, I just moved into a new city, new school, its a valve for me to use when I normally would be chilin with my old buddies. But by no means am I offended by you callin me on it :laugh: Its a part of life, what can I do? I still chill with people, but they dont want to talk about this kinda stuff, so I come here.

The difference is, you dont give a sh*t about my stance, and yet you still run your mouth. I do give a sh*t about people being massacred, that is why I gave my opinion on it. Just as I give a sh*t about people getting slaughtered in Darfur. Clearly I dont know exactly whats going on there, but does that mean I should keep my mouth shut and allow it to happen?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> > nobody cares
> 
> 
> 1)what forums do you see me on :laugh: i dont have time be all over the internet.. i just finished up a big job and am taking some time too myself, relax going on vacation next week..btw does it make me a fool because im patriotic or am i a patriot because i am a fool??, maybe you should spend the time you are at school doing school work and a little more time at home studying then on here because as much time as you spend on here obviously you haven't learned a thing..
> ...


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

i just feel anything our troops do over there 
shouldnt be accountable in the states 
its not our land 
it isnt our terotory 
so why should they be punished 
they didnt start the war 
Bush did 
he should suffer

you will never have all the facts about what happend 
and i put money on this hole thing being a set up 
and the troops didnt do it 
even if they did 
who cares

if we give a sh*t about those people why not start a donation to them 
givem half your yearly salary mettle 
see if they send you a goat or a thank you

im an equal opportunity hater 
i hate the trash of every race 
color race religon dont matter to me 
if your scum i hate you 
i think there hole exisitance should be eleminated 
they dont deserve to breath my oxegen

but getting back on the topic 
are we gonna pay for the airfair for the witnesses to come here so these troops 
who are willing to die for our freedom (mettle dont count cuz your canadian)
can stand a trial by there peers for something they did someplace else

i learned long ago to take half the truth and half the story and youll come to a conclusion

i highly dout this was souly the troops fault 
i bet some iraqi killed those people dressed like an american 
and when our guys got there they scapegoated them 
but all in all if we dont support our troops who will

btw mettle your canadian 
can your country fight a war 
whens the last time you guys even helped in a war 
so stay cold smoke your weed and keep out of it 
it got nothing to do with you

how do you americans call yourselfs american if you cant support your troops 
war is hell

in veitnam they used childern to kill troops 
a little vietnamese kid with a stuffed animal would walk up to a tropp and then the explosive would detonate 
my friends dad got blown up like that 
no the poor bastard cant even live a normal life 
he lost use of his hole left side 
and has to gimp around cuz he wolnt use a wheel chair 
and he was gonna give that kid some chocolate 
like he did for others

its the same with these iraqis 
those road side bombing are suicide bombers

how can you tell friend or foe

so either go over there and police the troops or shut the f*ck up and support them 
if you kill the parent in front of the kid that kid will want revenge all his life 
and there community hates us enuff allready 
kill the woman and children first 
then half your future problems are solved


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Hemi said:


> i just feel anything our troops do over there
> shouldnt be accountable in the states
> its not our land
> it isnt our terotory
> ...


Hemi...I stand by your post and say "preach your thoughts" but at the same time, you do have to understand that Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors do have to abide to the geneva conventions setup. Even though its combat, we were taught/trained to abide to the geneva convention rules as closely as possible. I, however, dont agree with that 100%...my thought is if no one else; during the times of conflict abide by those old rules, then why should the US?

The answer is because everyone has a bone to pick with the US. Everyone is hating on US because we have the balls and the initiative to speak up about what we think is wrong, and in most cases, we act on that initiative...and when we DO act, the world says "_oooh, look at the mighty USA....they're trying to play world police_." If the US f**ks up, we get ALL the blame and everyone hates us, however, if the US succeeds, everyone rally behinds the Americans and claim that they took part in the "success".

Its kinda like that old joke...

Two airmen drive onto a Marine Corps base and pull up next to the two sentries, standing tall at their post. The Marine sentry asks both airmen for ID, one Marine walks to passenger side of the car, asks the airman to roll down his window. He leans forward and gives the airman a punch in the jaw and says "I'll just get this out of the way right now because as soon as you drive away you would've been saying 'if that guy were to come on my side, I would've punched him in the face'"

Morale: Say it and do it.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

ProdigalMarine said:


> i just feel anything our troops do over there
> shouldnt be accountable in the states
> its not our land
> it isnt our terotory
> ...


Hemi...I stand by your post and say "preach your thoughts" but at the same time, you do have to understand that Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors do have to abide to the geneva conventions setup. Even though its combat, we were taught/trained to abide to the geneva convention rules as closely as possible. I, however, dont agree with that 100%...my thought is if no one else; during the times of conflict abide by those old rules, then why should the US?

The answer is because everyone has a bone to pick with the US. Everyone is hating on US because we have the balls and the initiative to speak up about what we think is wrong, and in most cases, we act on that initiative...and when we DO act, the world says "_oooh, look at the mighty USA....they're trying to play world police_." If the US f**ks up, we get ALL the blame and everyone hates us, however, if the US succeeds, everyone rally behinds the Americans and claim that they took part in the "success".

Its kinda like that old joke...

Two airmen drive onto a Marine Corps base and pull up next to the two sentries, standing tall at their post. The Marine sentry asks both airmen for ID, one Marine walks to passenger side of the car, asks the airman to roll down his window. He leans forward and gives the airman a punch in the jaw and says "I'll just get this out of the way right now because as soon as you drive away you would've been saying 'if that guy were to come on my side, I would've punched him in the face'"

Morale: Say it and do it.
[/quote]

you're letting your dedication to the USMC cloud your logic though. i have friends in the marines and my best friend, whom i've known since the 6th grade, is army infantry going to iraq in september. but nothing should justify going into a town and mowing down women and children. it's hostile territory, there's no doubt about that. but you can't let your anger get in the way of clear judgement. otherwise, it makes our servicemen look no better than al-qaeda.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

hyphen said:


> i just feel anything our troops do over there
> shouldnt be accountable in the states
> its not our land
> it isnt our terotory
> ...


Hemi...I stand by your post and say "preach your thoughts" but at the same time, you do have to understand that Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors do have to abide to the geneva conventions setup. Even though its combat, we were taught/trained to abide to the geneva convention rules as closely as possible. I, however, dont agree with that 100%...my thought is if no one else; during the times of conflict abide by those old rules, then why should the US?

The answer is because everyone has a bone to pick with the US. Everyone is hating on US because we have the balls and the initiative to speak up about what we think is wrong, and in most cases, we act on that initiative...and when we DO act, the world says "_oooh, look at the mighty USA....they're trying to play world police_." If the US f**ks up, we get ALL the blame and everyone hates us, however, if the US succeeds, everyone rally behinds the Americans and claim that they took part in the "success".

Its kinda like that old joke...

Two airmen drive onto a Marine Corps base and pull up next to the two sentries, standing tall at their post. The Marine sentry asks both airmen for ID, one Marine walks to passenger side of the car, asks the airman to roll down his window. He leans forward and gives the airman a punch in the jaw and says "I'll just get this out of the way right now because as soon as you drive away you would've been saying 'if that guy were to come on my side, I would've punched him in the face'"

Morale: Say it and do it.
[/quote]

you're letting your dedication to the USMC cloud your logic though. i have friends in the marines and my best friend, whom i've known since the 6th grade, is army infantry going to iraq in september. but nothing should justify going into a town and mowing down women and children. it's hostile territory, there's no doubt about that. but you can't let your anger get in the way of clear judgement. otherwise, it makes our servicemen look no better than al-qaeda.
[/quote]

:laugh: reeaally, please explain to me how hostile you might think it really is over there, have you ever seen 10-16 year olds running around with assault rifles taking shots at you or women willingly useing themselves as body shields as the arag behind her is making his way toward you fireing off rounds like theres no tomorrow?? snipers taking shots at you surrounded by civilians and civilians purposly not clearing the area, women/teenagers rushing you or trying to get near you with enough c4 stuffed in thier ass to take down a building?? please educate me on your knoledge of al qaida/terrorists and thier tactics and how you feel our soldiers should deal with them :laugh: dont bother, i really dont want to know..


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Liquid said:


> :laugh: reeaally, please explain to me how hostile you might think it really is over there, have you ever seen 10-16 year olds running around with assault rifles taking shots at you or women willingly useing themselves as body shields as the arag behind her is making his way toward you fireing off rounds like theres no tomorrow?? snipers taking shots at you surrounded by civilians and civilians purposly not clearing the area, women/teenagers rushing you or trying to get near you with enough c4 stuffed in thier ass to take down a building?? please educate me on your knoledge of al qaida/terrorists and thier tactics and how you feel our soldiers should deal with them :laugh: dont bother, i really dont want to know..


you're really f*cking defensive. firstly, you have no idea what i know. a good friend of mine spent 2 years there and i heard every fuckign story he had to tell. so don't try and act all high and mighty because you ain't fooling anyone. yes, he was a door gunner and yes, he's told me stories about water holes with children and rifles.

maybe you think you know what you're talking, but once again, you simply don't. the reason the marines and the american military are who they are is because they're expected to hold a level of superiority both mentally and physically. and since i'm sure that you didn't bother reading the article at all, let me fill you in. the investigation led by the americans are reporting that the accounts of the iraqi survivors are true. what say you?

we're policing iraq, not ruling them with a f*cking iron fist. so what exactly are you getting at? are you trying to imply that it's okay for americans to run amok in iraq and kill every child and woman simply because some of them are used as shields and manipulated by the terrorists? i'm sorry, but ut that's called tyranny, and the last time i checked the united states were AGAINST that. do you even bother reading?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

hyphen said:


> :laugh: reeaally, please explain to me how hostile you might think it really is over there, have you ever seen 10-16 year olds running around with assault rifles taking shots at you or women willingly useing themselves as body shields as the arag behind her is making his way toward you fireing off rounds like theres no tomorrow?? snipers taking shots at you surrounded by civilians and civilians purposly not clearing the area, women/teenagers rushing you or trying to get near you with enough c4 stuffed in thier ass to take down a building?? please educate me on your knoledge of al qaida/terrorists and thier tactics and how you feel our soldiers should deal with them :laugh: dont bother, i really dont want to know..


you're really f*cking defensive. firstly, you have no idea what i know. a good friend of mine spent 2 years there and i heard every fuckign story he had to tell. so don't try and act all high and mighty because you ain't fooling anyone. yes, he was a door gunner and yes, he's told me stories about water holes with children and rifles.

maybe you think you know what you're talking, but once again, you simply don't. the reason the marines and the american military are who they are is because they're expected to hold a level of superiority both mentally and physically. and since i'm sure that you didn't bother reading the article at all, let me fill you in. the investigation led by the americans are reporting that the accounts of the iraqi survivors are true. what say you?

we're policing iraq, not ruling them with a f*cking iron fist. *so what exactly are you getting at? are you trying to imply that it's okay for americans to run amok in iraq and kill every child and woman simply because some of them are used as shields and manipulated by the terrorists? i'm sorry, but ut that's called tyranny, and the last time i checked the united states were AGAINST that. do you even bother reading?*[/quote]

rephrase:your goddam right as long as they pose even the slightest threat.. i could give two shits what the rest of your bullshit, what you think you know, how many friends you got headed over to Iraq :laugh: like i said 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, and im not defencive i just think your too stupid for your own good..youv'e got your opinions, ill have mine









p.s do you really believe that u.s soldiers would go out of thier way to kill inocent women and children







like i said everything about you is a joke all the way up to your fake ass wannabe mma tags..<<<







that may have been uncalled for.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Liquid said:


> :laugh: reeaally, please explain to me how hostile you might think it really is over there, have you ever seen 10-16 year olds running around with assault rifles taking shots at you or women willingly useing themselves as body shields as the arag behind her is making his way toward you fireing off rounds like theres no tomorrow?? snipers taking shots at you surrounded by civilians and civilians purposly not clearing the area, women/teenagers rushing you or trying to get near you with enough c4 stuffed in thier ass to take down a building?? please educate me on your knoledge of al qaida/terrorists and thier tactics and how you feel our soldiers should deal with them :laugh: dont bother, i really dont want to know..


you're really f*cking defensive. firstly, you have no idea what i know. a good friend of mine spent 2 years there and i heard every fuckign story he had to tell. so don't try and act all high and mighty because you ain't fooling anyone. yes, he was a door gunner and yes, he's told me stories about water holes with children and rifles.

maybe you think you know what you're talking, but once again, you simply don't. the reason the marines and the american military are who they are is because they're expected to hold a level of superiority both mentally and physically. and since i'm sure that you didn't bother reading the article at all, let me fill you in. the investigation led by the americans are reporting that the accounts of the iraqi survivors are true. what say you?

we're policing iraq, not ruling them with a f*cking iron fist. *so what exactly are you getting at? are you trying to imply that it's okay for americans to run amok in iraq and kill every child and woman simply because some of them are used as shields and manipulated by the terrorists? i'm sorry, but ut that's called tyranny, and the last time i checked the united states were AGAINST that. do you even bother reading?*[/quote]

your goddam right i could give two shits what the rest of your bullshit, what you think you know, how many friends you got headed over to Iraq :laugh: like i said 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, and im not defencive i just think your too stupid for your own good..youv'e got your opinions, ill have mine









p.s do you really believe that u.s soldiers would go out of thier way to kill inocent women and children laughlong.gif like i said everything about you is a joke all the way up to your fake ass wannabe mma tags..<<< laughlong.gif that may have been uncalled for.
[/quote]

right, if 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, then don't bother reading. simple solution for a simple problem. stay up there on your high horse, bud.

ps. oooookay, because i don't train, watch, or keep up with the sport at all. keep yappin buddy, you really sound like you know what you're saying, mr. "rampage-got-ktfo-by-some-japenese-nobody."


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

hyphen said:


> you're letting your dedication to the USMC cloud your logic though. i have friends in the marines and my best friend, whom i've known since the 6th grade, is army infantry going to iraq in september. but nothing should justify going into a town and mowing down women and children. it's hostile territory, there's no doubt about that. but you can't let your anger get in the way of clear judgement. otherwise, it makes our servicemen look no better than al-qaeda.


No, no...I agree with you on the fact that its not justifiable to go into a town full of "innocent" civilians (its in quotations because we dont know if they really are innocent, just only through perception) but when you're under constant stress and you see your buddy get blown up, you're going to get pissed off and "TRY" not to go on a belligerent rampage. We, as Marines, have to abide by "The Laws of War", something beaten into our heads during bootcamp, ICT and depending where you end up, skill schools. ...point is, Marines have a breaking point, even if we are put to a standard above everyone else.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

hyphen said:


> :laugh: reeaally, please explain to me how hostile you might think it really is over there, have you ever seen 10-16 year olds running around with assault rifles taking shots at you or women willingly useing themselves as body shields as the arag behind her is making his way toward you fireing off rounds like theres no tomorrow?? snipers taking shots at you surrounded by civilians and civilians purposly not clearing the area, women/teenagers rushing you or trying to get near you with enough c4 stuffed in thier ass to take down a building?? please educate me on your knoledge of al qaida/terrorists and thier tactics and how you feel our soldiers should deal with them :laugh: dont bother, i really dont want to know..


you're really f*cking defensive. firstly, you have no idea what i know. a good friend of mine spent 2 years there and i heard every fuckign story he had to tell. so don't try and act all high and mighty because you ain't fooling anyone. yes, he was a door gunner and yes, he's told me stories about water holes with children and rifles.

maybe you think you know what you're talking, but once again, you simply don't. the reason the marines and the american military are who they are is because they're expected to hold a level of superiority both mentally and physically. and since i'm sure that you didn't bother reading the article at all, let me fill you in. the investigation led by the americans are reporting that the accounts of the iraqi survivors are true. what say you?

we're policing iraq, not ruling them with a f*cking iron fist. *so what exactly are you getting at? are you trying to imply that it's okay for americans to run amok in iraq and kill every child and woman simply because some of them are used as shields and manipulated by the terrorists? i'm sorry, but ut that's called tyranny, and the last time i checked the united states were AGAINST that. do you even bother reading?*[/quote]

your goddam right i could give two shits what the rest of your bullshit, what you think you know, how many friends you got headed over to Iraq :laugh: like i said 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, and im not defencive i just think your too stupid for your own good..youv'e got your opinions, ill have mine








[/quote]

right, if 85% of the responders here are beyond a joke, then don't bother reading. simple solution for a simple problem. stay up there on your high horse, bud.
[/quote]

please refer back to my input of hopefully bringing a glimps of reality into you virtual reality flooded with terrorist sympothizing horse sh*t.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

ProdigalMarine said:


> you're letting your dedication to the USMC cloud your logic though. i have friends in the marines and my best friend, whom i've known since the 6th grade, is army infantry going to iraq in september. but nothing should justify going into a town and mowing down women and children. it's hostile territory, there's no doubt about that. but you can't let your anger get in the way of clear judgement. otherwise, it makes our servicemen look no better than al-qaeda.


No, no...I agree with you on the fact that its not justifiable to go into a town full of "innocent" civilians (its in quotations because we dont know if they really are innocent, just only through perception) but when you're under constant stress and you see your buddy get blown up, you're going to get pissed off and "TRY" not to go on a belligerent rampage. We, as Marines, have to abide by "The Laws of War", something beaten into our heads during bootcamp, ICT and depending where you end up, skill schools. ...point is, Marines have a breaking point, even if we are put to a standard above everyone else.
[/quote]

yeah, totally agreeable. everyone has a breaking point. i just don't believe that it should go unpunished. maybe it was lack of training for such stress or maybe the soldiers in question weren't cut out for it. it could be that the people were civilians, could be that they weren't, i wasn't there. but judging by the report (which i understand could possibly be totally wrong), it seemed illogical for them to have done what they did.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

hyphen said:


> you're letting your dedication to the USMC cloud your logic though. i have friends in the marines and my best friend, whom i've known since the 6th grade, is army infantry going to iraq in september. but nothing should justify going into a town and mowing down women and children. it's hostile territory, there's no doubt about that. but you can't let your anger get in the way of clear judgement. otherwise, it makes our servicemen look no better than al-qaeda.


No, no...I agree with you on the fact that its not justifiable to go into a town full of "innocent" civilians (its in quotations because we dont know if they really are innocent, just only through perception) but when you're under constant stress and you see your buddy get blown up, you're going to get pissed off and "TRY" not to go on a belligerent rampage. We, as Marines, have to abide by "The Laws of War", something beaten into our heads during bootcamp, ICT and depending where you end up, skill schools. ...point is, Marines have a breaking point, even if we are put to a standard above everyone else.
[/quote]

yeah, totally agreeable. everyone has a breaking point. i just don't believe that it should go unpunished. maybe it was lack of training for such stress or maybe the soldiers in question weren't cut out for it. it could be that the people were civilians, could be that they weren't, i wasn't there. but judging by the report (which i understand could possibly be totally wrong), it seemed illogical for them to have done what they did.
[/quote]

like i said, do you really beleive not alone any individual u.s soldier, but a squad would go out of thier way to kill innocent women and children,for no reason what so ever??...if you believe this bullshit you are too stupid for your own good. propiganda propiganda propiganda, your average idiot cant get enough of it..one of the reasons i agree with marine and have always believed that the geneva convention should have been thrown out of the window a long time ago..


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

*http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=..._nm/iraq_dc_190

here ya go dumb ass's now go find something else to cry about...:laugh:

notice the ""The forces, upon arrival, began taking direct fire from the building. As the enemy fire persisted, the ground force commander appropriately reacted by incrementally escalating the use of force from small arms fire to rotary wing aviation, and then to close air support, ultimately eliminating the threat," Caldwell said.

"Allegations that the troops executed a family living in this safe house, and then hid the alleged crimes by directing an air strike, are absolutely false," Caldwell said.

The investigation revealed the ground force commander, while capturing and killing terrorists, operated in accordance with the rules of engagement governing our combat forces in Iraq," Caldwell said." i guess since you know it all you can figure the rest out*


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

:crickets:


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2006)

Liquid man, why do you even come here? It obviously isnt to contribute to the forum. "85%" of this thread has been flaming.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Liquid man, why do you even come here? It obviously isnt to contribute to the forum. "85%" of this thread has been flaming.


whats the matter danny boy someone piss in your fruity pebbles?? so your saying you shouldn't be flamed for useing every piece of bullshit propiganda clip you find on the web as a chance to throw dirt on American soldiers even when 100% of the time your dead wrong, you just got done describing how evil and disgusting our soldiers are, provoking comments like "our soldiers are going insane" and that "we are all baby killers", this is what happens when a piece of sh*t like yourself insists on jumping the gun and goes off flapping your gills off about sh*t you dont have a clue about and now that that truth be known you still dont have the balls to admit when your wrong







not even an apology, to tell you the truth i didnt expect one from a low down piece of dirt such as yourself so it doesnt surprise me.. got a chance to sit home today and relax, so i browsed by this site see whats been popping and low and behold, some more of the same horse sh*t being posted by you throwing dirt on people that you would not deserve a sip of thier spit if you stranded in the middle of a desert dieing from dehydration...you wouldnt deserve a sip not because your a civilian, or even a canadian :laugh: just because your you Dannyboydipshit, thats got a ring too it, i'd go on and change your name now this way people will know what to expect from you from now on when reading more of your bullshit...







still gets me that after all this sh*t has been thrown around..not one responce to the article above which not only clears thier name but THEY TOOK HOSTAGES YOU DUMBASS thats how hard up these soldiers were on killing not alone women and children but everything that moved as you'd like to see it..Thier isn't a soldier with the American flag sown on thier shoulder that would like to kill a woman or child.... without there being a threat theres no sport in that, and if there were any signs of someone that had a hardon for something like that, it wouldnt be long till someone sniffed him out and put him out of his misery, when you have an armed woman or child trying to take your life well then it is a completely diffrent story but trust me when i say we'd rather thier finest locked cocked and ready to rock..I know you'd love it if i'd stand by and allow you to mettle in your own sh*t trying to stirr up fellow sympothizers as yourself, and it must have broken your heart to see that these soldiers are actually heros in stead of pieces of terd like yourself, but im like batman kid and ill continue to pop up when you least expect it and count on me calling you on your bullshit..


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

They also strap bombs on their own country peoples children, and make them run out in front of American vehicles..

The choice our soldiers have to make in that situation is: 1) Run the Iraqi kid over with the bombs straped on,, or
2) Stop, save the kids life, and have you, and the rest of your fellow troops in the vehicle die from an Iraqi RPG

These people are whacked.. They don't care about their own citizens at all. They use children as cannon fodder. Sick.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> They also strap bombs on their own country peoples children, and make them run out in front of American vehicles..
> 
> The choice our soldiers have to make in that situation is: 1) Run the Iraqi kid over with the bombs straped on,, or
> 2) Stop, save the kids life, and have you, and the rest of your fellow troops in the vehicle die from an Iraqi RPG
> ...


We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.








Can you just imagine what the world will be like if America just sits back, do nothing, and watch?


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS 
its plan and simple 
keep the idea that our guys are doing there jobs 
and dont crusifie them for anything

remember there not on american soil


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Liquid said:


> Liquid man, why do you even come here? It obviously isnt to contribute to the forum. "85%" of this thread has been flaming.


whats the matter danny boy someone piss in your fruity pebbles?? so your saying you shouldn't be flamed for useing every piece of bullshit propiganda clip you find on the web as a chance to throw dirt on American soldiers even when 100% of the time your dead wrong, *you just got done describing how evil and disgusting our soldiers are, provoking comments like "our soldiers are going insane" and that "we are all baby killers", * this is what happens when a piece of sh*t like yourself insists on jumping the gun and goes off flapping your gills off about sh*t you dont have a clue about and now that that truth be known you still dont have the balls to admit when your wrong :laugh: not even an apology, to tell you the truth i didnt expect one from a low down piece of dirt such as yourself so it doesnt surprise me.. got a chance to sit home today and relax, so i browsed by this site see whats been popping and low and behold, some more of the same horse sh*t being posted by you throwing dirt on people that you would not deserve a sip of thier spit if you stranded in the middle of a desert dieing from dehydration...you wouldnt deserve a sip not because your a civilian, or even a canadian :laugh: just because your you Dannyboydipshit, thats got a ring too it, i'd go on and change your name now this way people will know what to expect from you from now on when reading more of your bullshit...:laugh: still gets me that after all this sh*t has been thrown around..not one responce to the article above which not only clears thier name but THEY TOOK HOSTAGES YOU DUMBASS thats how hard up these soldiers were on killing not alone women and children but everything that moved as you'd like to see it..Thier isn't a soldier with the American flag sown on thier shoulder that would like to kill a woman or child.... without there being a threat theres no sport in that, and if there were any signs of someone that had a hardon for something like that, it wouldnt be long till someone sniffed him out and put him out of his misery, when you have an armed woman or child trying to take your life well then it is a completely diffrent story but trust me when i say we'd rather thier finest locked cocked and ready to rock..I know you'd love it if i'd stand by and allow you to mettle in your own sh*t trying to stirr up fellow sympothizers as yourself, and it must have broken your heart to see that these soldiers are actually heros in stead of pieces of terd like yourself, but im like batman kid and ill continue to pop up when you least expect it and count on me calling you on your bullshit..
[/quote]

Witness the eclipse of Reason. DB17 never made an across the board statement concerning the soldiers. Since you are in the 15% of knowledgable observers, then you know most tours in Vietnam were roughly a year. It was usually the second half of a tour when the soldier began breaking down (if he was even going to). Many of the soldiers in Iraq have been in multiple tours, and, given the rules of combat there, it is not uncommon to go balistic after seeing your own troops being blown to pieces. Many Marines will confirm this. Most observers on this thread are much more sympathetic to the soldiers than to the elitist chicken hawks who sent them to Iraq. 
As far as the article you posted, that was regarding the incident in Ishaqi, and this post is about the incident in Haditha, although I'm sure you recognize the difference. And anyway, this isn't about who's right and who's wrong. It's about whether our soldiers still need to be placed in an environment where terrorists hide behind civilians. Of course, that most of the terrorists are native Iraqis who want to govern themselves I'm sure makes no difference to you. Haven't we learned anything from the British experience controlling countries that didn't belong to them. It generally doesn't work. Oh, and by the way, you talk way too much sh*t, just like your beloved Steelers, who needed help from the refs to win the Super Bowl. How pathetic is that?


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

Liquid said:


> Liquid man, why do you even come here? It obviously isnt to contribute to the forum. "85%" of this thread has been flaming.


whats the matter danny boy someone piss in your fruity pebbles?? so your saying you shouldn't be flamed for useing every piece of bullshit propiganda clip you find on the web as a chance to throw dirt on American soldiers even when 100% of the time your dead wrong, you just got done describing how evil and disgusting our soldiers are, provoking comments like "our soldiers are going insane" and that "we are all baby killers", this is what happens when a piece of sh*t like yourself insists on jumping the gun and goes off flapping your gills off about sh*t you dont have a clue about and now that that truth be known you still dont have the balls to admit when your wrong :laugh: not even an apology, to tell you the truth i didnt expect one from a low down piece of dirt such as yourself so it doesnt surprise me.. got a chance to sit home today and relax, so i browsed by this site see whats been popping and low and behold, some more of the same horse sh*t being posted by you throwing dirt on people that you would not deserve a sip of thier spit if you stranded in the middle of a desert dieing from dehydration...you wouldnt deserve a sip not because your a civilian, or even a canadian :laugh: just because your you Dannyboydipshit, thats got a ring too it, i'd go on and change your name now this way people will know what to expect from you from now on when reading more of your bullshit...:laugh: still gets me that after all this sh*t has been thrown around..not one responce to the article above which not only clears thier name but THEY TOOK HOSTAGES YOU DUMBASS thats how hard up these soldiers were on killing not alone women and children but everything that moved as you'd like to see it..Thier isn't a soldier with the American flag sown on thier shoulder that would like to kill a woman or child.... without there being a threat theres no sport in that, and if there were any signs of someone that had a hardon for something like that, it wouldnt be long till someone sniffed him out and put him out of his misery, when you have an armed woman or child trying to take your life well then it is a completely diffrent story but trust me when i say we'd rather thier finest locked cocked and ready to rock..I know you'd love it if i'd stand by and allow you to mettle in your own sh*t trying to stirr up fellow sympothizers as yourself, and it must have broken your heart to see that these soldiers are actually heros in stead of pieces of terd like yourself, but im like batman kid and ill continue to pop up when you least expect it and count on me calling you on your bullshit..
[/quote]

damn liquid sounds like you are pretty inteligent, and inteligent enough to know that everyone is entitled to there own opinion, but i dont blame you for taking up for your self and you did a very good job of it.

i know who to call on if any one ever pics on me lol.

as far as my opinion on the war i dont think its any of our business to go over there and tell them what to do, no body on here want s to be told what to do by an outside force other than there spouse or parents and not even them half the time.

its an oil war and i think if two leaders of two different countries have differnencies they there selves can handle it in the streets, why do people that have nothing to do with the prob have to get involved?

thats like me having a problem with you liquid and then going to get my cousin to deal with you man
i mean come on i know roy jones jr. aint gonna be the president no time soon but if the but can we really handle another bush administration?

why do you think gas is so high cause there is a shortage?









because bush is taking control of all the oil over there while he is covering it up with the stuff you hear on tv, then raising all the prices telling us its them making it hard for us to get to.

i wouldnt be surprised if 1000 yrs from now some one found out bush masterminded 911

so in short hate bush not our troops


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## MONGO  (Feb 7, 2006)

cool article..i woulda done the same










kill em all

metallica


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

So.... how bout dem Pistons?

oh... wait.... dang


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Speaking of massacres...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663276/?GT1=8211

Thank god the authorities stopped this massacre before it was followed through.

Regards,

B


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

no one gets the road side bombers and people who plant land mines in any sh*t.......... a kill is a kill fair or not.

when the bombers dress like civilians who can you trust?


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Personally, Me, the way I see it, is like this.
Some of those peoeple been over there long...You know damn well there not
thinking right. Its Freaking War. Im not agreeing with it, but at the same time...It is War.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

Liquid said:


> Liquid man, why do you even come here? It obviously isnt to contribute to the forum. "85%" of this thread has been flaming.


whats the matter danny boy someone piss in your fruity pebbles?? so your saying you shouldn't be flamed for useing every piece of bullshit propiganda clip you find on the web as a chance to throw dirt on American soldiers even when 100% of the time your dead wrong, you just got done describing how evil and disgusting our soldiers are, provoking comments like "our soldiers are going insane" and that "we are all baby killers", this is what happens when a piece of sh*t like yourself insists on jumping the gun and goes off flapping your gills off about sh*t you dont have a clue about and now that that truth be known you still dont have the balls to admit when your wrong :laugh: not even an apology, to tell you the truth i didnt expect one from a low down piece of dirt such as yourself so it doesnt surprise me.. got a chance to sit home today and relax, so i browsed by this site see whats been popping and low and behold, some more of the same horse sh*t being posted by you throwing dirt on people that you would not deserve a sip of thier spit if you stranded in the middle of a desert dieing from dehydration...you wouldnt deserve a sip not because your a civilian, or even a canadian :laugh: just because your you Dannyboydipshit, thats got a ring too it, i'd go on and change your name now this way people will know what to expect from you from now on when reading more of your bullshit...:laugh: still gets me that after all this sh*t has been thrown around..not one responce to the article above which not only clears thier name but THEY TOOK HOSTAGES YOU DUMBASS thats how hard up these soldiers were on killing not alone women and children but everything that moved as you'd like to see it..Thier isn't a soldier with the American flag sown on thier shoulder that would like to kill a woman or child.... without there being a threat theres no sport in that, and if there were any signs of someone that had a hardon for something like that, it wouldnt be long till someone sniffed him out and put him out of his misery, when you have an armed woman or child trying to take your life well then it is a completely diffrent story but trust me when i say we'd rather thier finest locked cocked and ready to rock..I know you'd love it if i'd stand by and allow you to mettle in your own sh*t trying to stirr up fellow sympothizers as yourself, and it must have broken your heart to see that these soldiers are actually heros in stead of pieces of terd like yourself, but im like batman kid and ill continue to pop up when you least expect it and count on me calling you on your bullshit..
[/quote]

Thanks Liquid, I wish ya well in life my friend


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)

DannyBoy17 said:


> How do we know that?
> 
> And even if they did, does that warrant shooting the children?


those children could have been the ones throwing rocks at our convoys


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)




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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I dont even want to comment. It seems that preconceived notions rule here. Even our below average president is concerned about this incident. I dont think you shoot kids because they COULD have thrown rocks at you before. Seriously, you are one dumb ****** :rasp:



Ex0dus said:


>


I agree that we should support our troops.

But if they violated the Geneva Convention, do you still support those particular troops? Just curious


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

acestro said:


>


I agree that we should support our troops.

But if they violated the Geneva Convention, do you still support those particular troops? Just curious








[/quote]

Since we are honest with eachother Tom... Yes, I would still support them. WE have no clue what these KIDS go through in situations of life or death on a daily basis. I have no idea what its like to see a buddy of mine blown in half. I talked to my uncle the other night, he knows one of the captians involved. He says he guy is a good soldier and that the media is bending the story. Ill wait to pass judgement till an offical report is out. Im sure tho that that we will never hear the truth if this was justified. The world is pissed and for some stupid f*cking reason we have to please the world. Whats the lives of a few of our own if it pleases the international community.

ps- the "f*ck haters" isnt geared towards you tom. I wanted to add it my earlier pics but you posted before I could hit "reply".


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

Who is hating? No doubt these kids are going through a lot. You make it sound like the people who are against MURDER are anti-patriotic, or anti-American. One can support the troops, but keep thier morals intact while they are doing this. Clearly not all the troops are commiting these crimes, and persecuting the guilty ones will only bring more honour to the troops in the long run for thier duties.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Who is hating? No doubt these kids are going through a lot. You make it sound like the people who are against MURDER are anti-patriotic, or anti-American. One can support the troops, but keep thier morals intact while they are doing this. Clearly not all the troops are commiting these crimes, and persecuting the guilty ones will only bring more honour to the troops in the long run for thier duties.


Sure man, I agree. But im really fed up with all this bullshit. 1st auib graib (sp) we HUNG our soldiers out imo. They made mistakes... not worth YEARS in prison. We had to please the international community. Jesus, next im gonna see the US agree to allow OUR troops brough before the war tribunals







.

my point? The media who is clearly anti soldier is spinning this to get some ratings. I want to see the proof before my eyes before i even want to think or believe our kids woudl commit such crimes. FFS, the kid last year who was protecting a crossing. The news agencies were trying him in the media. Thank god he was found innocent on all charges.


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

Hemi said:


> good for them
> thats what we shoulda been doing since day 1
> you kill the kids parents in front of them and they grow up to hate america
> so kill them too
> ...


Hemi,

You have the strangest way of writing a post. It's like poetry or verse..... but NOT! And actually since I am neither American nor Iraqi I can't comment on your position, but I can comment on your use of English. You know it actually takes me a while to read your posts. I usually have to read a sentence at least twice, three times in some cases, just to figure out what the hell you are saying. Are you an English native speaker? If not then forget about my comment. If you are then....









Oh, BTW what have "those commie bastards" got to do with Iraq? As far as I know Iraq is not a communist country, but correct me if I am wrong.

Oh yeah and that "wish, wish" proverb thingy you are trying to do....forget about it, I have no idea what in god's name you are trying to say....


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Who is hating? No doubt these kids are going through a lot. You make it sound like the people who are against MURDER are anti-patriotic, or anti-American. One can support the troops, but keep thier morals intact while they are doing this. Clearly not all the troops are commiting these crimes, and persecuting the guilty ones will only bring more honour to the troops in the long run for thier duties.


exactly my point, what crime?? were you there and who the hell are you to jump the gun and persecute our troops like if they already guilty, i shouldn't ask because i already know the answer but where is your benefit of doubt?? and why are you so quick to post non circumstantial propiganda like this and throw gasoline all over it when obviously your never conserned with articles like this..

http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=4344...&term=&supDate=

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/b...2470.xml&coll=1

http://www.kbcitv.com/x51828.xml?URL=http:...tionalHeadlines

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2006/06/0...02060406_01.txt

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/monterey...reyherald_world

http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...5/NEWS/60515027

why haven't you taken some of your valuable time to point the finger at terrorist's for the tactics they use, and are so quick to put our soldiers in the spot light, you talk about murder like it is non existant in war..Two conclusions, either a:your an example of ignorance at its finest or you are a terrorist sympothizer either way if you have such a problem with "murder" then let me be the first to inform you that this is a war, now turn off the t.v and go mow your lawn or something.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

Liquid, who said Im not concerned?

No, I wasnt there. But I also wasnt in Rwanda when the Interwhame and Hutu nationalists killed a million people. Does that mean I should ignore what happened?


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> Since we are honest with eachother Tom... Yes, I would still support them. WE have no clue what these KIDS go through in situations of life or death on a daily basis. I have no idea what its like to see a buddy of mine blown in half. I talked to my uncle the other night, he knows one of the captians involved. He says he guy is a good soldier and that the media is bending the story. Ill wait to pass judgement till an offical report is out. Im sure tho that that we will never hear the truth if this was justified. The world is pissed and for some stupid f*cking reason we have to please the world. Whats the lives of a few of our own if it pleases the international community.
> 
> ps- the "f*ck haters" isnt geared towards you tom. I wanted to add it my earlier pics but you posted before I could hit "reply".


I'm glad that wasn't towards me, I dont really have much hate!









I appreciate the honesty and I think there is definitely a point there. But there's also the point that we are trying to help these people (that's been a big part of the 'good' spin on the war). This doesn't speak well towards that.

News will bend things, especially if bending it makes it more newsworthy. And I agree, who knows what this stress of guerilla warfare is like to go through. But that would give you a shorter jail term (under duress or psychological distress) if you were to commit murder for that reason back in the US, so if all this is true, then there should be strict action but maybe not the same action if they were killing just out of hate and racism. I'm just trying to be objective in this shitstorm of subjectivity!









You do have to respect the stress on the soldiers and you do have to respect the value of the life of civilians, even in a situation of guerilla warfare. It's not easy or simple, hence all the discussion :laugh:


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2006)

> It's not easy or simple, hence all the discussion :laugh:


Amen


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Liquid, who said Im not concerned?
> 
> No, I wasnt there. But I also wasnt in Rwanda when the Interwhame and Hutu nationalists killed a million people. Does that mean I should ignore what happened?


if you are so concerned with murder regardless of faction, then why dont you ever take the oppertunity to address terrorist tactics ie, the articles that i posted above, you will not post one post on suicide bomber killing himself, a handfull of soldiers and a whole lot of civilian, but the first article you come across that could possibly exploite our soldiers without any solid evidence or conviction, well then your all over that one now aren't you. I'd love to see someone as your self out there have a couple of your buddies blown to sh*t up close and personal by suicidal arags all dressed alike, or have civilians takeing shots at your head or purposly not warn you of road side bombs then stand by and watch as a convoy takes it in the ass and then come tell me how friendly you'd be to every f*cker there with a towel wrapped around his head, I think the key word here is "civilian".. The terrorists are civilians that do not fight by any particular flag, but rather a faceless enemy from many countries all fighting for fanatical islam, and because the enemy play this cat and mouse game especially with the media who love to twist and turn and eat this sh*t up, it is important to have faith in our soldiers discretion giving them the benefit of doubt untill prooven other wise and throw the geneva convention out of the window..

Take a good look at guantanamo bay, you wont see prisoner's originating from any one particular country, you'll find them fighting out of saudi arabia, iraq, afghan, syria, iran, sudan, "PAKISTAN" ,whos a supposed allie, the list goes on and on.. Well since this obviosly underlines a coalition of forces fighting against us should we fight by the geveva convention laws ?? declare war on all these countries drop a f*cking nuke and get the hell out of there? throw the convention out of the window?? or continue to play thier game and let the troop on the frontline take it in the ass..

how could you jump the gun on a delicate matter such as this and not think you weren't gonna piss somebody off, you say you are only what "discussing" the situation, then how bout you do it in a less incriminating tone this way people dont get the idea that "OMG OUR SOLDIERS ARE GOING INSANE AND ARE KILLING OFF WOMEN AND CHILDREN"!..


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Liquid said:


> Liquid, who said Im not concerned?
> 
> No, I wasnt there. But I also wasnt in Rwanda when the Interwhame and Hutu nationalists killed a million people. Does that mean I should ignore what happened?


if you are so concerned with murder regardless of faction, then why dont you ever take the oppertunity to address terrorist tactics ie, the articles that i posted above, you will not post one post on suicide bomber killing himself, a handfull of soldiers and a whole lot of civilian, but the first article you come across that could possibly exploite our soldiers without any solid evidence or conviction, well then your all over that one now aren't you. I'd love to see someone as your self out there have a couple of your buddies blown to sh*t up close and personal by suicidal arags all dressed alike, or have civilians takeing shots at your head or purposly not warn you of road side bombs then stand by and watch as a convoy takes it in the ass and then come tell me how friendly you'd be to every f*cker there with a towel wrapped around his head, I think the key word here is "civilian".. The terrorists are civilians that do not fight by any particular flag, but rather a faceless enemy from many countries all fighting for fanatical islam, and because the enemy play this cat and mouse game especially with the media who love to twist and turn and eat this sh*t up, it is important to have faith in our soldiers discretion giving them the benefit of doubt untill prooven other wise and throw the geneva convention out of the window..

Take a good look at guantanamo bay, you wont see prisoner's originating from any one particular country, you'll find them fighting out of saudi arabia, iraq, afghan, syria, iran, sudan, "PAKISTAN" ,whos a supposed allie, the list goes on and on.. Well since this obviosly underlines a coalition of forces fighting against us should we fight by the geveva convention laws ?? declare war on all these countries drop a f*cking nuke and get the hell out of there? throw the convention out of the window?? or continue to play thier game and let the troop on the frontline take it in the ass..

how could you jump the gun on a delicate matter such as this and not think you weren't gonna piss somebody off, you say you are only what "discussing" the situation, then how bout you do it in a less incriminating tone this way people dont get the idea that *"OMG OUR SOLDIERS ARE GOING INSANE AND ARE KILLING OFF WOMEN AND CHILDREN"!..
[/quote]*

And if they have? Should we look the other way?


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

An article which was emailed to me, whether or not its authentic is beyond me. Just read the article and take what you want from it.



> June 02, 2006, 6:39 a.m.
> 
> Hell & Haditha
> Understanding war.
> ...


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I agree that we cannot condemn them when we have relatively little information. However, we can discuss it, and it doesn't look too good from what we've seen. Have any of these marines spoken up (are they allowed to after such a thing)?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Prod, no one is questioning what the men and women face everyday. I wouldnt have posted this topic if a marine, who was wounded in that very attack, wasnt the first one to speak out AGAINST what his fellow Marines did that day (on the news, CBC 11pm). My only source of knowledge was *his* testimony and what Ive seen and read through the media. So should I take this Marines' recount of the events seriously or not? Im insulting soldiers it seems either way... :sigh:


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Prod, no one is questioning what the men and women face everyday.


Seems like thats not the case in world politics now is it? 
Thanks to hollywood, the Marine has the image of a "cold-blooded, emotionless killer", so when he goes out into combat situations and things happen that seems "normal" to him but seems "unhumane" to the world, he gets called out and sh*tted on. Now in saying my statement, it doesnt mean that I believe what happened was right nor can I prove that he was innocent, Im neutral on the whole subject. I just posted that article to possibly shed light on those who are "ignorant" to the stress of combat and only rely off the negativity of the media.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

I just wanted to point out to those who think I am slingin mud that I used the word "accused" in the title...if I am tryin to trash soldiers, Im sure I would have not used a word which allows that there is some doubt.


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## SidewalkStalker (Oct 26, 2005)

Last semester I took an ethics class taught by a former marine who served in Vietnam. He seemed to get off on posing unanswerable questions to the class and then reaming us when we tried to pass our gut feelings solutions to issues which really couldn't be universally resolved given any amount of time or genius enlightenment (abortion, death penalty, life support etc.)

One day he asked whether or not we thought US soldiers would murder civilians "in cold blood" more or less. I should have known that this was another one of his bait propositions, but i couldn't resist responding when he ask for a show of hands of people who thought that our soldiers would NOT murder civilians. I was the lone student who raised my hand. Whether all the others thought our soldiers would commit such crimes or whether they were just too intimidated or lazy to raise their hands, they sure weren't backing me up. The professor realized he "had a live one", and proceeded to reference the My Lai incedent of the Vietnam war. I responded with "I'm aware that that happened, but I don't think it would happen today." He sort of shrugged ignored my comment and proceeded to spin the conversation into an anti-Bush rant.

I don't pretend to be very knowledgable about war, especially when it comes to fighting a guerilla war against faceless terrorists. However, I think I can see how the stresses involved in the job could make my assessment of whether our soldiers could snap and start murdering people a poor one. Still, I don't think anybody can pass judgement on any marine who succumbs to the unimaginable pressures and does the only thing he thinks will preserve his own life. I see the Marines as victims of an extremely brutal situation, and realize that they're doing the best they can to walk the razor thin line placed before them.

When reading the thread, I didn't get too riled up because people's responses are understandably chock-full of emotion. But since I've been writing my response and thinking about what others have said, I've become torn. The three major contributors to the thread, Danny, Prod, and Liquid, probably all have good intentions. Prod, you seem to know what you're talking about, and thank you for your service. Liquid, you feel the way I do about supporting our troops etc, but it seems to me that you've let your feelings for the troops and your country turn into a hate filled racist attitude against all people in the middle east. I do admire you calling people out on their "bullshit"...

...speaking of which...

...DannyBoy...

DannyBoy, DannyBoy, DannyBoy....









I damn sure hope that when you said "Punishment?" you didn't mean "What sort of punishment should we impose on these guys?" It sickens me to know that snivelling little pantywaists like yourself and others on this thread have nothing better to do than sit around and snipe the people who serve their country when they haven't been proven guilty of any wrong doing. Do I think it's OK for soldiers to murder innocent civilians? ...Plainly, no... But I'll be damned before I sit by and let somebody, a CANADIAN no less, try to infuse anti-American sentiments into a thinly veiled attempt at a non-biased discussion. It's people like you who make it so that our soldiers have to use so much restraint when fighting this war. A crushing military victory against is no victory for the US because the world would perceive it as us bullying a helpless foe. We have to fight a war of public opinion as well by exercising excessive restraint because people like you want to talk about punishing Marines before we even know if they're guilty. Our soldiers pay the price.

If you weren't suggesting we discuss what sort of punishment needs to be handed down, then I've overstepped my grounds. Still, merely suggesting any sort of possible punishment for men who are doing a job that you're incapable of while not knowing if they're guilty is an insult. I don't know how things operate North of the border, but in this country it's innocent until proven guilty. Do I think the marines messed up? ...Probably... But I'm not thinking of how I'm going to roast them.

...read the quote from my signature and think about it the next time you're thinking about opening your mouth...


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

I guess Hitler was a cool guy too, right? Because I know you werent in his shoes, so by your logic, no man should ever judge him?

I'll ask you this: What is the difference between Marines killing civilians and Insurgents killing civilians? I would honestly like to know your opinion. Both are under a lot of pressure, both are in the theatre of war. Both are fighting for thier cause, whether its honourable or not. So who are we to judge insurgents then? Have you been in thier shoes? Because your whole argument is based on this.

Patriotism and pride is one thing. But to be hypocritical and to let justice be a mere ideal, is to let all the deaths of every US soldier be in vain. Arent the US soldiers fighting for a better Iraq? Arent they fighting for justice in this land? Arent they fighting for the freedom of the peoples of the world? Allowing murder only makes all the sacrifice for nothing.

Its easy to be the majority. Its easy to overlook things when its convienant.

BTW, there are many Canadians deployed under the American flag fighting in this war. And thats beside the point. The war in Iraq does not just affect Americans, it affects the whole world. If you dont want to discuss the issue, and hear beliefs which conflict your own, then dont put yourself in a position for people to have that opportunity.

...I coulda swore I would never get involved in one of these topics again...


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

DHtcqb7 said:


> ...speaking of which...
> 
> ...DannyBoy...
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

ProdigalMarine said:


> Prod, no one is questioning what the men and women face everyday.


Seems like thats not the case in world politics now is it? 
Thanks to hollywood, the Marine has the image of a "cold-blooded, emotionless killer", so when he goes out into combat situations and things happen that seems "normal" to him but seems "unhumane" to the world, he gets called out and sh*tted on. Now in saying my statement, it doesnt mean that I believe what happened was right nor can I prove that he was innocent, Im neutral on the whole subject. I just posted that article to possibly shed light on those who are "ignorant" to the stress of combat and only rely off the negativity of the media.
[/quote]

I'll be honest, I've seen mostly good portrayals of marines in hollywood. I agree it's really good to be neutral on this subject until things are more clear. I still would have to say it looks rather bad at this point. Until I hear the marines describe the situation in their own words honestly, I'll withhold judgement. That is how it should work.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

louie D, i love your double standard, you comment that these canadian arabs should be executed when they havent been proven of sh*t, and now you stand up and proudly defend your soldiers when they're basically in the same situation...so whats going on? racism? you dont like arabs? canadians? so what, your troops can do no wrong, but everyone else should be put in jail? those arabs in canada didnt even kill anyone...the marines did...

anyway, getting to the topic, i think this is complete bullshit, they havent been proven guilty, they're all over the f*cking TV, its sick...i support the 1st amendment, but honestly, this sh*t is taking it too far, the right to a fair trial is breeched when the major outlets of news are all reporting the same sh*t about these people being criminals. its absolute bullshit, im not sure what measures i'd take to improve the system, but the system surely needs to be improved, and responsible journalism technique has to be implemented here...this is a moralle killer for the other troops fighting a dieing every day so we can have this freedom, why do we choose to use the freedom they give us to f*cking persecute them...anyway, im done.


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

quote me where i said the muslims SHOULD be executed...


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

quote me where i said anything about muslims...


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

Those are the men who were arrested...MUSLIMS

QUOTE me then where I said the "arabs" should be executed. You can't =(


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

here goes...



> I agree, a dead terrorist is the only good terrorists...


and then you implied these people are terrorists by saying "what would 17 arabs being doing with 3 tons of ammonium perchlorate"........so what are you saying, that these people should be executed? or are you saying you'd like to see them die of natural causes....?


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

HAH!

Do you not agree with me? There is no good terrorist. Does that simply mean I think those men should be executed, or not have a fair trial? NO! So cut the crap flaming. end it.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Ignore


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

dude, you're calling these people terrorists...you use the term almost as loosely as bush...they havent committed an act of terrorism!!!! do you not understand?!? all you can do is speculate as to what they were doing with 3 tons of ammonium perchlorate...but still, this was about your double standard which is heavily apparant, if you'd like, continue with this nonsense in the other thread, i'd be happy to keep pointing out where you're wrong.


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

Their ultimate causes were terroristic. Did you not read the article.

You should be defending these men!!! You sound like their lawyer!


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

so I must be the only one that thinks we have a money hungry president huh.

it aint our troops fault its there commander and chief


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## SidewalkStalker (Oct 26, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> so I must be the only one that thinks we have a money hungry president huh.
> 
> it aint our troops fault its there commander and chief


...insightful words from the guy with the CNote flag icon...


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

> That really doesn't warrant a good response but I'll do it anyway... Everybody knows Hitler was wrong / guilty, so regardless of his situation you can hold him accountable. You don't know if the specific marines are guilty, so you shouldn't be talking about punishing them...


Yes, I should. Its called discussion. Also, note the word "accused" in the title.



> No, I haven't been in insurgent's shoes. No, my whole argument isn't based on that. If they're proven to be guilty of murdering those people without cause, then hold them accountable. Until then, STFU. Ruthless killing of the innocent is considered morally prohibited in both cases IMO.


Read above.



> Why all the talk about the reasons for fighting when you say killing by the insurgents and by the Marines are the same because they're "fighting for their cause, whether its honourable or not". I'd have to say that killing people in an attempt to maintain a society of crippling fear is worse than collateral damage from trying to liberate people.


Aye, I would have to agree with that. Thats not the point tho, my statement revolved around the idea that if these soldiers were indeed guilty as they have been accused (accused even by one of the soldiers wounded in the attacks, and involved in the alleged shootings), they should be brought to justice, just as any other person should and would be.



> ...Canadian... and an Emo?? "eh?" ...2 strikes DannyBoy...



View attachment 108728


Oh man, not two strikes! OH NOES!



> Good for them. That doesn't give you the right to "shoot first, ask questions later" with your persecuting arguments about the Marines. The way you're so quick to jump the gun I'd be you'd be the first one to start mowin people down if you were over there.


Does this even make sense? Maybe I just dont understand the connection...regardless, I have the right to discuss the issue, whether it makes you hot-headed or not. Americans arent the only people who colonize this planet.



> Unlike you, I don't go looking for arguments. It takes a lot to get me to respond to one of these threads. I don't mind hearing beliefs that conflict with my own, and I don't usually preach when I do, but you're sh*t needed calling out.


This wasnt intended as an arguement, but it was turned into one by other members.

Oh, and thanks for your services :laugh:










I did enjoy your post tho, it was well written and contained many good points. Its too bad you had to add in all the snide remarks to get a rise, or else this would be a great discussion...as this thread was meant to inspire in the first place!


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## Reddevill (Jun 10, 2003)

If the Marines did go into peoples homes and start killing them, they need to be brought to trial. Just because they are soliders doesnt mean they can do what they want and it could be these guys are fucked in the head. I new my share of fucked up soliders when I was in the army. Not everyone who enlists into a military branch is doing so to serve there country. Some are even thugs (I new a few).

Now if you had a women and children shooting at you, then you have no choice but to take them out because its them or you or your fellow soliders. Thats war, fucked up, but its kill or be killed at that point.

And yes, Bush is a moron.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Reddevill said:


> If the Marines did go into poeples homes and start killing them, they need to be brought to trial. Just because they are soliders doesnt mean they can do what they want and it could be these guys are fucked in the head. I new my share of fucked up soliders when I was in the army. Not everyone who enlists into a military branch is doing so to serve there country. Some are even thugs (I new a few).
> 
> Now if you had a women and children shooting at you, then you got to take them our because its them or you or your fellow soliders. Thats war, fucked up, but its kill or be killed at that point.
> 
> And yes, Bush is a moron.


I agree, and have no objection to that post. Good points! Great to hear from someone with experience in the uniform pipe in.


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## SidewalkStalker (Oct 26, 2005)

Reddevill said:


> Does this even make sense? Maybe I just dont understand the connection...regardless, I have the right to discuss the issue, whether it makes you hot-headed or not. Americans arent the only people who colonize this planet.


Basically, when you want to start talking about punishing them before they're proven guilty, you're jumping to conclusions before you know everything you need to know, just as a person does when they shoot first and ask questions later.

Why talk about punishment for somebody who's "accused"?? You're inferring / implying guilt.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

DHtcqb7 said:


> Does this even make sense? Maybe I just dont understand the connection...regardless, I have the right to discuss the issue, whether it makes you hot-headed or not. Americans arent the only people who colonize this planet.


Basically, when you want to start talking about punishing them before they're proven guilty, you're jumping to conclusions before you know everything you need to know, just as a person does when they shoot first and ask questions later.

Why talk about punishment for somebody who's "accused"?? You're inferring / implying guilt.
[/quote]

AMEN I SAY TO YOU AMEN....FOR THE TRUTH HAS BEEN BESTOWED UPON OUR PRESENCE....please dont jump to conclusions, fair trials are prevented that way...


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Yes, I understadn what you mean now. I edited in "punishment" later after they showed the soldier who was involved admit to it, at that point I thought it was official.


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

[
it aint our troops fault its there commander and chief
[/quote]

...insightful words from the guy with the CNote flag icon...
[/quote]

lol, you got a point but im not the leader of a country i have to be money hungry because the president is making it hard to buy things that were once cheap.


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## SidewalkStalker (Oct 26, 2005)

Trill, I feel ya...

R1der, I dunno if you're bein sarcastic or not... thanks either way i guess...


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Here's something spooky, look at the number of google results for 'terroristic':

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=terroristic












Reddevill said:


> If the Marines did go into peoples homes and start killing them, they need to be brought to trial. Just because they are soliders doesnt mean they can do what they want and it could be these guys are fucked in the head. I new my share of fucked up soliders when I was in the army. Not everyone who enlists into a military branch is doing so to serve there country. Some are even thugs (I new a few).
> 
> Now if you had a women and children shooting at you, then you have no choice but to take them out because its them or you or your fellow soliders. Thats war, fucked up, but its kill or be killed at that point.
> 
> And yes, Bush is a moron.


 Possibly the best post in this topic. A military man who knows Bush is stupid and that all military folks are not infallible. Good stuff.


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

this weeks TIME magazine is about this incodent 
at it comes to my realization 
time magazine is the one who broke the story 
i dunno about you guys 
but the same magazine who put john gotti on the cover as a hero 
is now slandering heros

they have some intresting pictures in there 
after seeing them 
and the people around in the shots 
i dout soldiers had anything to do with it 
the people didnt even look upset

now if there was real truth about this 
and it happend in nov of 05 
why is it now that iraq is gonna investigate
you would think 
the country that dont want us there 
woulda jumped on a story like this right away 
instead of letting a US publication like TIME break the story in MARCH 06 
and finally haven an update

this hole STORY stinks to high hell 
and the worst part is these troops are gonna be crusified for something they prolly didnt do

i would put money on it being the iraq police 
dressed like us soldiers 
or something to that affect

anyways 
support our troops 
not our president


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

DHtcqb7 said:


> Trill, I feel ya...
> 
> R1der, I dunno if you're bein sarcastic or not... thanks either way i guess...


no way man, i was agreeing...im sick of seeing people being accused and lynched for doing something when they've not been proven of it yet...


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## Steelrain (Apr 22, 2006)

Coming from someone who served in the Corps, How about we wait to pass judgement until the FACTS about this come out, I'm sure you will be very suprised,

I am confident this will be thrown out on grounds of no evidence to support the accusations. The Marines have yet to be charged with anything (as of 22JUN06) yet are stiill being held in solitary confinment in leg shackles at the brig in camp pendleton, Cali.

The American public should be Pissed that we are treating "our own" this way. Gimo prisoners aren't even treated like this....

The "STORY" broke when a "Human Rights" group in Iraq send a so called aftermath video to a US newspaper. On a side note the head of this "human rights group" is known to come from a TERRORIST family...
I belive the US jounralist are one sided and ran with the "big story"

The Marines accused of this act have there own pictures of the events that took place. These will be shown at the trials.

From all American accounts who were present at the time of the attack, the Marines stayed within there rules of engagement.

They entered a building from which they were reciveing small arms fire, a couple of He grenades where thrown thru a doorway then the Marines entered and began firing. This is Standard operating Procedure for this situation.

Because of the bias media these Marines are already tried and convicted in the public eye, and for this I am angered.

So Please, Please wait to pass judgement


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Steelrain said:


> Coming from someone who served in the Corps, How about we wait to pass judgement until the FACTS about this come out, I'm sure you will be very suprised,
> 
> I am confident this will be thrown out on grounds of no evidence to support the accusations. The Marines have yet to be charged with anything (as of 22JUN06) yet are stiill being held in solitary confinment in leg shackles at the brig in camp pendleton, Cali.
> 
> ...












Me and you will get along great. Welcome to the website, btw









You damn right about the media trying these soldiers tho. But when you have house and senate members condeming these boys already, that really speaks volumes. This is a BIG f*ck you to Murtha


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## Steelrain (Apr 22, 2006)

Steelrain said:


> Coming from someone who served in the Corps, How about we wait to pass judgement until the FACTS about this come out, I'm sure you will be very suprised,
> 
> I am confident this will be thrown out on grounds of no evidence to support the accusations. The Marines have yet to be charged with anything (as of 22JUN06) yet are stiill being held in solitary confinment in leg shackles at the brig in camp pendleton, Cali.
> 
> ...


I really hate to bring up such an old thread, but I really want to know where all the people who at the time, basically convicted these Marines feel now 2 years later.

"Of the eight Marines originally charged in the November 19, 2005, killing of 24 men, women and children at Haditha, five have now seen their cases dropped", the last one coming just the other day 28MAR08....

I expect the remaining Marines to also be cleared either before a trial or after..

Charges dropped against Marine in Haditha case


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

*deleted*

old ass thread


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

Dawgz said:


> IF the Marines did it, I can understand their rage. Imagine driving through a city full of people and having a roadside IED detonated beside your truck -and nobody ever warning you!
> 
> You know damn well those people knew that bomb was there and they let you drive on top of it anyway. That's guilt by an act of omission, if not enablement of insurgent activity.


Ur an idiot dude, as if u would go out screaming, HEY WAIT THERES A BOMB THERE.

These people stay quiet because they fear for their families. U on the other hand sit there on ur fckn chair making assumptions.
[/quote]

but then on the other hand, maybe if they helped the "invaders" (lol) by pointing out things like that then they wouldnt HAVE to fear for their family's lives because the soldiers could spend more time eradicating the insurgents instead of worrying about where the next bomb will explode, and wasting countless hours sweeping the roads in front of convoys for IEDs.


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

Danny????

You there?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Dawgz said:


> *deleted*
> 
> old ass thread


I don't think that the mods will delete this as it is a valid continuation of the older thread.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

^ i deleted the msg i wrote. No point on ranting on old ass topics.

the fruit cakes that did this atrocity already got off the charges.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

Dawgz said:


> ^ i deleted the msg i wrote. No point on ranting on old ass topics.
> 
> the fruit cakes that did this atrocity already got off the charges.


what about the fruitcake insurgents who kill innocent civilians just because they can?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Dawgz said:


> ^ i deleted the msg i wrote. No point on ranting on old ass topics.
> 
> the fruit cakes that did this atrocity already got off the charges.


So, why the rant in this post?


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## VRM (Jan 9, 2007)

i have never been in the military,and i will never pass judgement on these people. unless you are there in the situation you have no idea. i support every U.S. soldier over there i am sure they don't want to be there . other wars the children have bombs strapped to them. war is hell for everyone . sorry for my point of view ,but it will not change god bless our troops. now i will duck and hide from the flames


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

Dawgz said:


> ^ i deleted the msg i wrote. No point on ranting on old ass topics.
> 
> the fruit cakes that did this atrocity already got off the charges.


What atrocity?


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

calling all hippies........


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

holy sh*t i didn't realize how old this was.. was like wow fido and liquid are back!

but yeah, good to hear there was justice


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

Boobah said:


> holy sh*t i didn't realize how old this was.. was like wow fido and liquid are back!
> 
> but yeah, good to hear there was justice


Official hippie response: 
deafening silence


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## TobiasRieper (Mar 14, 2008)

They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

TobiasRieper said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


Um, who should? Did you read the part about the cases being dropped? Or do you still want to "rush" to judgment years after the fact, which would equate to "a little late to jump on the bandwagon"?


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

TobiasRieper said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Puff said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?
[/quote]

"Player Hater Degree"


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## MONGO  (Feb 7, 2006)

RockinTimbz said:


> cool article..i woulda done the same
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow... im a sick f*ck!


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## TobiasRieper (Mar 14, 2008)

Puff said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?
[/quote]

If someone killed your whole family you would agree.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

TobiasRieper said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?
[/quote]

If someone killed your whole family you would agree.
[/quote]

Okay, so why do YOU react this way?


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## TobiasRieper (Mar 14, 2008)

'IF' They murdered several innocent familes they deserve death. Just my opinion, nothing more than that.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

TobiasRieper said:


> 'IF' They murdered several innocent familes they deserve death. Just my opinion, nothing more than that.


That "if" makes it a lot better, as does the toned-down nature of your sentiments.


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## TobiasRieper (Mar 14, 2008)

perhaps my first post was over the top.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

TobiasRieper said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?
[/quote]

If someone killed your whole family you would agree.
[/quote]

wow. so your family lives in Haditha, Iraq?


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

TobiasRieper said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?
[/quote]

If someone killed your whole family you would agree.
[/quote]

If someone had it in for your squad, day in/day out, you would see differently than "they should have their throats savagely cut with a dull knife."

Marines were aquitted. Charges dropped. In the end, the Marines were JUST DOING THEIR MISSION!


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

ProdigalMarine said:


> They should have thier throats savagly cut with a dull knife.


wow. what a brilliant response. you must have a PhD, right? in Douchebaggery?
[/quote]

If someone killed your whole family you would agree.
[/quote]

If someone had it in for your squad, day in/day out, you would see differently than "they should have their throats savagely cut with a dull knife."

*Marines were aquitted. Charges dropped. In the end, the Marines were JUST DOING THEIR MISSION!
*[/quote]










...................................................Danny?


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## Steelrain (Apr 22, 2006)

7 Free ~ 1 more left








Semper Fi









From CNN.com

*Military judge dismisses charges in Haditha case *

A military judge dismissed charges Tuesday against a Marine officer accused of failing to investigate the killings of 24 Iraqis.

Col. Steven Folsom dismissed charges against Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani after finding that a four-star general overseeing the case was improperly influenced by an investigator probing the November 2005 shootings by a Marine squad in Haditha.

"Unlawful command influence is the mortal enemy of military justice," Folsom said. "In order to restore the public confidence, we need to take it back. We need to turn the clock back."

Chessani, of Rangely, Colo., was the highest-ranking officer to face a combat-related court-martial since the Vietnam War.

The charges were dismissed without prejudice, meaning they can be refiled, but Folsom barred Marine Forces Central Command from future involvement in the case.

Of eight Marines originally charged in the case, only one is still facing prosecution in the biggest U.S. criminal prosecution involving Iraqi deaths to come out of the war.

The incident occurred after a Marine was killed by a roadside bomb.

Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, who faces voluntary manslaughter charges, and a squad member shot five men by a car at the scene. Investigators say Wuterich then ordered his men to clear several houses with grenades and gunfire, leaving women and children among the dead.

Wuterich has pleaded not guilty.

Folsom's ruling comes two weeks after Gen. James Mattis took the stand - a rare courtroom appearance for such a high-ranking officer - to address the judge's initial finding that there was evidence of unlawful command influence in the case.

Col. John Ewers, the military lawyer who investigated the killings and took Chessani's statement, later became a top legal adviser to Mattis and sat in on briefings that helped Mattis decide who would be charged.

Mattis testified he never talked with Ewers about Haditha, although Ewers was present during a number of legal meetings where Haditha and Chessani were discussed.

Military policy prohibits Ewers from offering legal advice because he also was an investigator in the case.

Mattis approved the filing of charges against Chessani when he was both commander of the Marine Corps Forces Central Command and the commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton. He has since been promoted and serves as commander of both NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Transformation and commander of U.S. Joint Forces.

Four enlisted Marines were originally charged with counts related to the killings and four officers were charged in connection with the investigation, including Chessani.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

this is not justice, an act was committed, wether it was wrong or right has NOT been decided. this is what is shitty about our justice system. there is no finding. WHAT THE f*ck. for the people defending these marines, you have not won your argument. for the people who are against these marines, you have not won your argument. charges have been dropped, NO FINDING! WHAT THE f*ck. that's a f*cking justice system cop out.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> 7 Free ~ 1 more left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ONLY in America!







(The DIVIDED states of EMBARRASSMENT)


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

baddfish said:


> 7 Free ~ 1 more left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ONLY in America!







(The DIVIDED states of EMBARRASSMENT)








[/quote]

only embarassing one here is you


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Marines may sue

Looks like one of the marines may try to get back at time magazine and Murtha for "smear".


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## john1634 (Mar 22, 2005)

anyone seen the movie? yeah its a downfall for representation of the usa by whatever did happen. regardless in alot of countries eyes our so called leaders mistakes are how we are viewed as individually. on one side muslims or iraqis might see us as a threat to their way of life, wanting to live within their religous communities like their forefathers and handle things their own way, on the other side americans are there to protect the oil supplies and as a secondary- attempt to rebuild a government that truely wasnt ever there. i say we should just pack up and leave its not our war its bush's war. either way gas prices arent going down. taxes will always be high.If the marines are guilty or not doesnt matter anymore. situations like that are the reasons people hate americans but as long as the war continues attacks will happen from both sides. to some soldiers over there that have seen mothers and children with guns or grenades in their hands they are all the considered the enemy. they never know who is an insurgent. innocent people died some might have been insurgents. noone knows.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

john1634 said:


> anyone seen the movie? yeah its a downfall for representation of the usa by whatever did happen. regardless in alot of countries eyes our so called leaders mistakes are how we are viewed as individually. on one side muslims or iraqis might see us as a threat to their way of life, wanting to live within their religous communities like their forefathers and handle things their own way, on the other side americans are there to protect the oil supplies and as a secondary- attempt to rebuild a government that truely wasnt ever there. i say we should just pack up and leave its not our war its bush's war. either way gas prices arent going down. taxes will always be high.If the marines are guilty or not doesnt matter anymore. situations like that are the reasons people hate americans but as long as the war continues attacks will happen from both sides. to some soldiers over there that have seen mothers and children with guns or grenades in their hands they are all the considered the enemy. they never know who is an insurgent. innocent people died some might have been insurgents. noone knows.


Thats right! PACK UP and get the F**K OUT!!! You will NEVER change their way of life. A very simple fact. ACCEPT it.


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## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

we shouldve left saddam there to torture his own people at least he kept them in check. you go in and help people that really didnt want help. Sure when we "liberated" iraq they were all going yay usa, then as soon as they got what they wanted its like get the f*ck out thanks for nothing. wtf you welcome.


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