# Bait Minnows For Pirahna Food



## LRutherford (May 13, 2006)

Anybody ever fed there piranha's minnows at the bait shop? would this stunt there growth like goldfish do?


----------



## Snake_Eyes (Jun 14, 2006)

I fed shiners to my snakehead for a while and he grew like a weed. Probably not a good idea though, much like goldfish I'm sure they're full of disease.


----------



## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I strongly advise against this. EVERY bait shop I've been to has some nasty looking bait fish. They are always in rough shape and most of the time have present ick. I would bet they are packed full of parasites too. I would never put them in the same tank with any of my fish. Even if you quarantined them they probably wouldn't be suitable to feed, because most minnows contain thiaminase, the growth inhibiting hormone that's the talk of the forum. 
~Taylor~


----------



## LRutherford (May 13, 2006)

where are any documents showing that goldfish inhibit the growth of other fish? Or is just another ploy by PETA people to keep a fish from suffering. I'm a PETA person a person eating tasty animals.
but seriously I would like to see some articles documenting this send some links please.


----------



## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

GoldenPiranha said:


> where are any documents showing that goldfish inhibit the growth of other fish? Or is just another ploy by PETA people to keep a fish from suffering. I'm a PETA person a person eating tasty animals.
> but seriously I would like to see some articles documenting this send some links please.


This is a good discussion on the subject: Click Here!

It is a real thing that exists, so I'm sure if you did a google search you would find a lot more on it.


----------



## LRutherford (May 13, 2006)

I still can't find any scientific data backing this up. I've searched everywhere I agree fish need a varied diet as people need a vareity in there diet too. But I think people are reading way too much into this feeder fish are bad thing. I do agree you need have a quaratine tank setup for them before feeding your fish. But giving your fish goldfish or minnows for part of it's diet is a good thing, besides what do you think they eat in the wild? Whole cattle.................


----------



## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Alright, I have heard this over and over again as well, so I decided to do some research. After many google searches, and further narrowing of the topic. This is what I found. NOTE: I did not draft this, simply pulled this information from other research that had been done.

Thiamine = Vitamin B1, needed for proper growth and development

Thiamine Mononitrate = Vitamin B1 Mononitrate (not sure if it's the same as above).

Thiaminase = enzyme that breaks down Thiamine (Vitamin B1), carried by goldfish, other Cyprinid (Carp-like) fish and some other non-Cyprinid fish.

Thiaminase breaks down Thiamine, also known as Vitamin B1, and essential for proper growth and development. Not all fish contain this enzyme but most fish that contain Thiaminase belong to the Cyprinid (Carp-likes) family. unfortunately, this family contains most of the commonly used feeder fish, such as Goldfish, Koi, Barbs, danio's, Minnows and Rosy Reds

A deficiency or lack of B1 (thiamine) will cause loss of appetite, a failure to grow, general weakness and a few other things. If it get bad enough the fish will die.

Here is a list of fish that contain Thiaminase:

Fish Reported to contain Thiaminase:
White Bass - Morone chrysops
Bowfin - Amia calva
Bream - Abramis brama (Not the U.S. fish; see this link). 
Buffalofish - Ictiobus cyprinellus
Bullhead catfish - Ameiurus m. melas
Carp - Cyprinus carpio
Channel Catfish - Ictalurus punctatus
Fathead minnow - Pimephales promelas (the red rosy is a color morph of this fish!)
Garfish (Garpike) 
Goldfish - Carassius auratus
Moray Eel - Gymnothorax ocellatu
Gizzard Shad - Dorosoma cepedianum
Spottail Shiner - Notropis hudsonius
Buckeye shiner - Notropis atherinoides
Central Stoneroller - Campostoma anomalum pullum
Common White Sucker - Catostomus commersoni
Lake Whitefish - Coregonus clupeiformis

Thiaminase in goldfish, minnows, rosy reds, barbs, danio's and other Cyprinids may cause a B1 deficit, if fed in large quantities.

If you feed some goldfish once a month it certainly won't affect your piranha's health, let alone kill them, but if you feed large amounts of goldfish, it might have serious consequences for your Piranha's health, often not visible, but that doesn't mean it's not happening

I hope this helps clear this issue up.

Goldfish = Bad for your p's!


----------



## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Coldfire said:


> Alright, I have heard this over and over again as well, so I decided to do some research. After many google searches, and further narrowing of the topic. This is what I found. NOTE: I did not draft this, simply pulled this information from other research that had been done.
> 
> Thiamine = Vitamin B1, needed for proper growth and development
> 
> ...


Nice write-up Coldfire. Somebody would have to be naive to not think thiaminase is real and does occur naturally in fish.

I would like to do an experiment one of these days that tests the growth stunting of piranhas with a little red belly. I would like to keep it in a tank and do very little waterchanges to just keep the nitrates at a safe level. The hormones in the tank will build up and the fish will not get very big. It would be an eye-opener for the hobbyists out there that don't believe in waterchanges.

It would be interesting to also do an experiment on goldfish feeding and how it will stunt their growth. Do waterchanges every week, but feed them nothing but comet goldfish feeders. It would get pretty expensive though..... Then hopefully that would be an eye opener for the hobbyists out there that believe in feeding them fish containing thiaminase.
~Taylor~


----------



## brutusbeefcake (Dec 8, 2004)

most "bait fish" cant handle 80+ degree water atleast thats what i experienced when i tried awhile ago... as soon as they hit the water they would start spinning and die... my rhom was like WTF?


----------



## BUBB$ (May 8, 2006)

I have tried it & will never do it again...


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2006)

I've dumped whole buckets of fathead minnows left over from fishing trips into my piranha's aquarium.

It took him a few days, but he managed to kill them all.

They're nutritionally deficient and they carry the risk of disease and parasites into every aquarium you introduce them to, but minnows are fun to feed!


----------



## the_w8 (Jul 28, 2003)

I did it once and they didn't even touch the golden shiners and they jus died off so I ain't doing that anymore, plus alot of baitshops I've been also has some sickly looking baitfish.


----------



## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I enjoy feeding feeders to my RBP's just like everyone else, it's not their main diet but it is a part of it. The only time I will leave feeders in the tank for more than like 5 mins is if I have some concern over aggresion. I would rather have some miniscule risk of disease than have a piranha get ripped to pieces in the night


----------



## GODS1KID (Jan 12, 2006)

i've done it and they ate all of them. i wouldn't recommend doing it often, but it probably wouldn't hurt every once in awhile


----------



## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

i do it once in a great while hoping to recruit more kids into the fish hobby and get them hooked on p's


----------



## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

As been said not a good idea...







!


----------

