# S. RHOMBEUS... (MUST READ)



## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

For many who get the piranha bug, they come here and go through threads like a junky feeds a drug habit. That is what makes this hobby such a rush.

Unfortunately there are little things that confuse matters and one in particular, probably the biggest, is is the naming of rhom varients.

I think this is an important issue because I believe that many hobbiests devalue there fish if they think a gold diamond rhom is better than a black diamond. And a Vinny (Venezuelan) rhom is better than either of the latter.

Here's the straight goods...
It's all in your heads.

To illustrate my points I'm going to use a few pics from site members. Hopefully you aren't offended that I never asked permission to use your pics. I'm sure you won't mind.

The first example I'm going to use is to show that COLOR is NOT a determining ID factor in the Rhom's that have the 'diamond' appearance.

Here is bob351's rhom he purchased back in January:

View attachment 119149


Now many hobbiests would refer to to this a a Gold Diamond Rhom. I would describe it as such based on it's appearance. The difference is I'm only describing what it looks like whereas some hobbiest's are refering to it as a distinct variant. And some would go on to even give its locality based on what it looks like. The common belief in many that "GDR's" are from Columbia so this must be a rare fish.

Now look at the next pic:

View attachment 119150


Well, what do you see? Some who would see this pic would say Vinny (Venezuelan) or Guyana rhom based on the red coloring. Both rare fish to own indeed. Either way this fish is the more sought after even of the "Gold Diamond " in the earlier pic.

But guess what...??
Same fish. The second pic was taken in June.

So where is this mystery fish from? 
Who cares. It's an S. Rhombeus. Great fish.

Vinny Rhom's...
What does a Vinny (Venezuelan) Rhom look like? Well a few of these specimins have showed up in the hobby and they have a real cool look to them. Seemed like a smaller head and steeper hump. Also they had the diamond scale.

Here's a few examples:

Mr. Hannibal's recently purchased rhom:
View attachment 119152


AKSkirmish had this one a while back:
View attachment 119153


And a handful of years ago Knifeman had this:
View attachment 119154


Those are what I think of when I think of Venezuelan varients.

However George from Shark Aquarium received these a few months back and don't resemble the previous rhom's I cited as examples:
View attachment 119159


View attachment 119155


Some may feel that last two pics are the same in appearance as the other three but I don't think so. Maybe that they are caught at another locality. In ID'ing the last two fish I don't suspect many would say, "Defenitely Vinny!". I'm not trying to de-value George's specimins, I think they are gorgeous and their points of collection are known, so that add's value because of there rarity. But I'm illustrating the point that that looks are deceiving. The question is... What does the fish mean to you??

Peru Rhom
What do you think of when you here that? A black colored rhom? No diamonds?

Here's a rhom from Peru. Raul Yalan owns this pic:

View attachment 119156


"Well that's odd", one may say. "I was expecting this..."

View attachment 119157


To many Piranha hobbiests they would refer to the first pic as a "___________ Diamond Rhom".
Well that fish was collected in the Amazonas river at Iquitos Peru.

You may now ask... "Well isn't the Black Rhom from Peru?"
The answer is yes.

The fish in the second pic is also one of Raul Yalan's fish. Why the difference? The "Black" rhom was collected in the Rio Nanay river, also located near Iquitos Peru.

Just a different varient. Why different? different river. Different parameters in there environment.

In conclusion...
I hope this thread clears up alot of the confusion and misconceptions about the different varients. I wanted to do this because I feel that the S. Rhombeus is an amazing predator and all have value. Hopefully this will change the hobbiests fragile psyche and reinforce the idea that your Rhombeus is as good as anyones. I'm not bashing our hobbiest's. I wanted to clarify matters because many think this way as I once did. But knowledge is key. If you think your rhom isn't equal you may be decieving yourself.
It's all how you percieve it.


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Thank you for saying it all in one nice compact little space! I usually say the same thing in any of the "BDR or GDR?" type threads!


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

well put


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## NeXuS (Aug 16, 2006)

well said


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

pin this sh*t


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

rocker said:


> pin this sh*t


seconded damn u rocker always beatin me to everything


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Tinkerbelle said:


> pin this sh*t


Thanks Rocker. Well I don't expect any P-Fury hall of fame treatment. But hopefully some can remember the post and just link others to it. Save yourself the time it takes to explain.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Good info there Pat!!!!Glad you took the time sir!!!!!


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Pat said:


> Thanks alot. Actually I saw a thread in the ID section today that was the straw that broke Pat's back. I figured I would put something together to save the endless posts having to clarify. I see GG always retorting with his " Call it a blue gilled barrel chested high fin" comments. LOL. They always seem to get more colorful so I thought I would spare ones like him the ongoing misery.


Good post Pat...but I must disagree on one point. My "dull grey black striped lumpy chinned" rhom deserves his own variant status.









I have posted a couple times about this Vinny conspiracy...some have that look...some dont. I would guess that there is more then one river in Venezuela...so I am sure there are different looking rhoms that would be collected. However..the ones that really stand out (the 3 you posted) are just amazing looking fish.


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Good post Pat...but I must disagree on one point. My "dull grey black striped lumpy chinned" rhom deserves his own variant status.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. Sorry. I'll get the varient right someday.









Yes those 3 are amazing.


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## Snake_Eyes (Jun 14, 2006)

Nice read.









I remember reading in a old thread that someone stated not to spend the extra money on a gold/blue diamond rhom because it's going to just end up turning black anyways...any truth to this?


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

/thinks it's a conspiracy planned by all variants of S. Rhombeus to confuse hobbiests..

J/K good post, care to explain lighter rhoms vs darker rhoms for the people who don't know? Alot of newer people think all regular rhoms are dark black..


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## fishfinder (Feb 6, 2004)




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## redbellyman21 (Jun 27, 2004)

Tinkerbelle said:


> Thank you for saying it all in one nice compact little space! I usually say the same thing in any of the "BDR or GDR?" type threads!


arent we all tink?


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## Snake_Eyes (Jun 14, 2006)

GT45FD3S said:


> /thinks it's a conspiracy planned by all variants of S. Rhombeus to confuse hobbiests..
> 
> J/K good post, care to explain lighter rhoms vs darker rhoms for the people who don't know? Alot of newer people think all regular rhoms are dark black..


Before joining here I only knew of Reds, black and wimple.









Imagine my surprise.


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

Good stuff, pin it!


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Snake_Eyes said:


> J/K good post, care to explain lighter rhoms vs darker rhoms for the people who don't know? Alot of newer people think all regular rhoms are dark black..


Well I assume you are refering to why one 'Black' rhom is lighter than another. Again home aquaria parameters. ph, lighting, substrate color, etc... are all factors.


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

wow, nice job on this thread. it should be pinned for sure. this thread has a lot of meaning to me and everyone else. who cares if u have a vinny rhom or diamond. a rhom is just a rhom from a location, not how it looks.


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## ruger345 (Jul 8, 2006)

Nice job and well put


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Not so fast.









What they all have in common is the deep red eye.


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

hastatus said:


> Not so fast.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes... the eye.









Just curious... You mention "Not so fast" with the link. I'm not sure why you think I'm might be jumping the gun here. I think we're in agreement. No?


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

to Pics and Vids Forum

due to photographic nature.

Harry


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## RGS38 (Aug 25, 2006)

True....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Pat Posted Today, 12:47 AM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Sep 11 2006, 06:23 AM)
> 
> Not so fast.
> ...


S. rhombeus is a complex species. I'm cautious in drawing any conclusion from photographs. But generally speaking, we are in agreement.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

WOW, great fish.......................


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

hastatus said:


> > Pat Posted Today, 12:47 AM
> > QUOTE(hastatus @ Sep 11 2006, 06:23 AM)
> >
> > Not so fast.
> ...


I think we're in total agreement. 
I know the origin of the 5 venezuelan rhom's and the owners of them knew there origin. And the two Large peru rhom's i know they're origin. And the first rhom belonging to bob351 are the same fish illustrating the point that color doesn't mean a 100% ID of collection point.

Them being a complex species is my point to the thread. In gist one can't look at a rhom and say that it's from Columbia simply cuz it's got a gold belly.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

i must say that 1sr rhom is really nice :rasp: , i was just told it was a gdr so i went with that im not gunna sell it for 10000 dollars more cus it might be a gold i agree a rhom is a rhom with different colors, but i do think that they can have slight differences like dimonds and non dimonds i have never seen a dimond loose is sparkle or the other way around just my two cents nice rhoms everone


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## jdk79 (Feb 22, 2003)

The pic's of georges vinny's are not a very good representation of what these fish really look like.
The picture of the large one with the ruler next to it is the fish I own.

As you can see the picture I added below looks much different. This is a interesting post for sure.


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

> The pic's of georges vinny's are not a very good representation of what these fish really look like.
> The picture of the large one with the ruler next to it is the fish I own.
> 
> As you can see the picture I added below looks much different. This is a interesting post for sure.


Very nice man. Has a nice hump but just looks more like a Black rhom like mine. If you know what I mean. Has a bigger face on it so to speak. But a bigger, steeper hump on it.

You must have done a measurement on it. Honest numbers you're posting. Beautiful fish.


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

so is this a vinny? peru? GDR, BDR? Rio xingu? columbian? bolivian? high back? jet black? Rio Araguaia? guyana? OR brazil rhom???????









thanks patty

good job on the write up. sounds almost like you know what you are talking about









Dan


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## Gigante Pirana (Apr 23, 2004)

The one thing that still bothers me though is that I still have yet to see a sparkled/glittered rhom that is over 14 icnhes! Everything over 14 inches is charcoal black/grey? In other words, all the ones that have come charcoal grey/black have remain so no matter what environment they happen to be currently in! On the other hand too, does anyone have a pic to confirm that a sparkling/glittery diamond type evntually turned into that dark charcoal grey/black . I.e, the smaller r.yalan rhom into the bigger r.yalan rhom! These are just questions I have and in no way suggests you are wrong here Pat! Just trying to understand some things I am still wondering about rhoms even before this good post!


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## Big Roc (May 4, 2006)

Snake_Eyes said:


> Nice read.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, that is not true they are given that name for a reason. That kids rhom probably lost its color due to its water conditions









By the way, nice post pat


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Gigante Pirana said:


> The one thing that still bothers me though is that I still have yet to see a sparkled/glittered rhom that is over 14 icnhes! Everything over 14 inches is charcoal black/grey? In other words, all the ones that have come charcoal grey/black have remain so no matter what environment they happen to be currently in! On the other hand too, does anyone have a pic to confirm that a sparkling/glittery diamond type evntually turned into that dark charcoal grey/black . I.e, the smaller r.yalan rhom into the bigger r.yalan rhom! These are just questions I have and in no way suggests you are wrong here Pat! Just trying to understand some things I am still wondering about rhoms even before this good post!


Well, those big black/grey rhom's are from the Nanay river and are commonly found over 16" there. But the diamond rhoms from peru are from the Amazonas and Raul has never seen one over 14" either.

I have wondered if there are genetic growth differences between the two varients. The sheer size of the Black Rhom's are what make me more partial to them.

Also when someone says that the Black Rhoms are more common in the hobby than the Diamond variety I have to disagree. The only thing rare about the diamond specimins is finding one over a foot long.


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

All I see are Red X's inside of grey boxes


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## hemptation88 (Jun 9, 2005)

cuz u shuldnt be lookin at threads frum sept lol


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

hemptation88 said:


> cuz u shuldnt be lookin at threads frum sept lol


Regardless of when it is even resent one from the begining of this month.


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