# Help With A New Tank



## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

I would like to say that I am New to this hole piranha thing. My uncle had 3 tanks when I was little until his ex smashed them with a base ball bat when he was at work. Since he pasted away I cant ask him question on how to keep piranhas witch sucks but those are the breaks I guess. I have a few questions for you guys. I am buying a 50g tank from a friend wich has 2 pumps in it. He is giving me the fish in it as well, the fish are crappy gold fish and a bunch of little ones. I plan to put the fish in my smaller tank and use them as feeders. Or should I just leave them in there ? Should I clean the tank and the pumps really good before putting in 3 baby piranhas that i will buy in there ? How long should I wait to put them in the tank ? Do i need to buy any chemicals for the water and what kind ? What kind of water testers do I need ? When changing there water what should I do ? Could I take the water from my other tank where the gold fish will be and use that ? If this helps the piranhas will be red belly.

Any help would be great

Thanks
Caine


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Welcome !!!

Click Here 
http://www.piranha-fury.com/faq/


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Welcome to the FURY and to the hobby!!









Your aunt smashed your uncle's tanks with a baseball bat?







What was the deal with that? Tell us more, I'm curious.

*I plan to put the fish in my smaller tank and use them as feeders. Or should I just leave them in there ? *

Goldfish are not good feeders. Fish in their family contain thiaminase, a growth inhibiting enzyme that could potentially stunt the growth of your piranha. Stay away from all feeders as a whole, because they can carry various diseases and parasites.

*Should I clean the tank and the pumps really good before putting in 3 baby piranhas that i will buy in there ?*
I would. It is always a good idea to clean a new tank out really good. That includes cleaning the substrate, decor, mechanisms, etc. Remember to never use soap or any other household cleaning products, no matter how many times you wash it afterwards. Vinegar could be an acception.

*How long should I wait to put them in the tank ?*
Sounds like you aren't familiar with cycling fish tanks. New tanks have to go through the "Nitrogen Cycle". To learn more about that go to the FAQ section of this site. You will find a lot of answers there. I followed the fishless cycle when cycling my 130 gallon tank. I also had an established filter running on the 130 that had "beneficial bacteria" in it, to help colonize my new filter on the 130. It only took me 2 weeks. When using cheap fish to cycle, it can take a month or more. You can also called a product at your local fish store called "bio-spira". That usually cuts it down to a week or less, and you can add the fish right away.

*Do i need to buy any chemicals for the water and what kind ?*
It depends. Do you have well water or city water? If you have city water you will need to get some dechlorinator. It takes chrlorine and harmful metals out of the water. I personally have well water, so I never use dechlorinator and my fish thrive well.

*What kind of water testers do I need ?*
You will need to test your water's ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph. You can usually just get these in a kit, called a test kit. Be sure it is for freshwater and not saltwater, although many kits are multi-use. Get the liquid test kits, they are a lot more accurate than dip strips.

*When changing there water what should I do ?*
Get the "Python No Spill Clean And Fill" gravel vacuum. It hooks right up to a standard sink faucet, and is every aquarists best friend! It is very easy to use, and not very expensive. I have seen these are Wal-Mart for cheaper than my local fish stores. It comes in the 25 foot, 50 foot, and 75 foot sizes. Plus you can always buy 10 foot extensions if needed. Here is a link so you can read and see what it is: Click Here!

*Could I take the water from my other tank where the gold fish will be and use that ?* 
You could, but what is the point? What did you have in mind? If you think it will help the tank cycle longer, it won't. Your beneficial bacteria lives in your filters and substrate.

You mentioned you are getting red bellies. Be aware that they aren't really aggressive. They are usually pretty shy and hide a lot. They are skittish, which makes people lose interest in them. Just give them at least 6 months to come out of their shell, and they should be pretty good pets. Just don't expect a lot from them. Have fun with your new tank and future piranha! I hope you stick around. You will find a ton of information.








~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

taylorhedrich said:


> Welcome to the FURY and to the hobby!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job Taylor.

Only thing I will add... I have used alot of test kits. I feel the best as far as ease of use, and accuracy is the Aquarium Pharmacueticals kit. You can get their master kit for under $15, and it's easy to use, and has good accuracy.

Good luck, and welcome. If you devote time to the hobby and are willing to learn a little along the way, I promise that you will enjoy it.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

If you want to chat sometime tonight, I have Yahoo! Messenger and MSN downloaded. My username is taylorhedrich on both of them, same as here, so if you have any more questions or anything I could answer them instantly. Just let me know, and we can set up a time tonight. If you are even interested. But for now, I am logging off, and I should be back on around 7:00 PM Eastern Time.
~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Get AIM Taylor and PM me your user name so we can talk on there sometime about your tank and what not.


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## pyrokingbrand (Nov 30, 2004)

Welcome!! Read the faqs and search for all the old threads about tank setup etc. There is so much info here it is unreal. Once again WELCOME!!


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys thanks for the help but I am still confused and I will explain in a sec. The reason for my aunt smashing my uncles tanks is because they broke up and she wanted to get back at him so she killed what he loved his Piranhas.
Here is where I am lost I will do the best I can to explain myself. The first thing is my brother would like to know what kind of fish ( alive )can we put in there so they can catch and eat them that are good for them. My plan is to give them something that is alive 1 or 2 times a week. Thats what my uncle did and the rest of the time he fed them stuff from the grocrey store like shrip and white fish of some kind, I cant remember everything he fed them cause its been about 15 or 20 years ago. I have read that people change 50% of there water every week and I was woundering how I go about that ? I will be using city water from the taps so do i need to add dechlorinator every time I change the water ? I have read that you DO NOT take them out of the tank when giving them fresh water but my question is do I add dechlorinator to the new water ? will that hurt them in any way ? Will I need to add Bio-Spira each time I add new water ? You know what would be awsome if someone could explain to me step by step how they clean there tanks and what they put in the water each time ? well thats it for now but I do know I will have some more questions for you guys. I do have to say that I will NEVER put mice or rats in there, in my opinion thats not right ( crule in my eyes ) I do know that it the circle of life but not for me, my uncle never did it so I will be the same way, Thats just me

Thanks
Caine

PS Man i have done more reading on this site in the past 2 days then I ever did in high school LOL


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ok man. Heres the scoop. It depends how you want to go about the water changes. If you get an item called a Python, it hooks up to your sink and makes changes a breeze.

I use the old school bucket and gravel vac method. I too use city water. What you would need for this method is a gravel vac and some 5 gallon buckets. What you would do is use the gravel vac, to vacuum the gravel and take out water into the bucket. Once you have the desired amount removed, you will use a bucket to fill the tank. You would treat the water while it i still in the bucket, so it is chlorine free before you put it in the tank. After a few buckets worth of water your tank is refilled.

The python is a long hose that hooks to your sink that has a gravel vac at one end. What you would do is use the python to take out the water and vacuum the gravel. After you remove the amout you want, you put enough declorinator into the tank to treat the amount of water you are about to put in. And you then use the python to fill the tank back up.

Either way work, just the python is easier. Most of the beneficial bacteria is in your filter media, and you do not have to worry about adding bio spira with water changes.

I suggest two 25% water changes a week, and you want to have your temperature of the water you are putting back into your tank as close to your tankwater as possible.

Good luck, and if I can help more, just ask!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

zerkisagony said:


> Hey guys thanks for the help but I am still confused and I will explain in a sec. The reason for my aunt smashing my uncles tanks is because they broke up and she wanted to get back at him so she killed what he loved his Piranhas.
> Here is where I am lost I will do the best I can to explain myself. The first thing is my brother would like to know what kind of fish ( alive )can we put in there so they can catch and eat them that are good for them. My plan is to give them something that is alive 1 or 2 times a week. Thats what my uncle did and the rest of the time he fed them stuff from the grocrey store like shrip and white fish of some kind, I cant remember everything he fed them cause its been about 15 or 20 years ago. I have read that people change 50% of there water every week and I was woundering how I go about that ? I will be using city water from the taps so do i need to add dechlorinator every time I change the water ? I have read that you DO NOT take them out of the tank when giving them fresh water but my question is do I add dechlorinator to the new water ? will that hurt them in any way ? Will I need to add Bio-Spira each time I add new water ? You know what would be awsome if someone could explain to me step by step how they clean there tanks and what they put in the water each time ? well thats it for now but I do know I will have some more questions for you guys. I do have to say that I will NEVER put mice or rats in there, in my opinion thats not right ( crule in my eyes ) I do know that it the circle of life but not for me, my uncle never did it so I will be the same way, Thats just me
> 
> Thanks
> ...


*I have read that people change 50% of there water every week and I was woundering how I go about that ?*
Just use the Python gravel vac that I gave the link to above. It will make your life a lot easier.

*I will be using city water from the taps so do i need to add dechlorinator every time I change the water ?*
Yes. City water is treated with chlorine, so you need to take that chlorine out of the water with a dechlorinator.

*I have read that you DO NOT take them out of the tank when giving them fresh water but my question is do I add dechlorinator to the new water ? *
Yes, just add it to the water that is coming out of the Python when you are filling it, so it get's spread around the tank good.

*will that hurt them in any way ?*
No.

*Will I need to add Bio-Spira each time I add new water ?*
Oh, no. Bio-spira is only used to cycle tanks. Once the tank is cycled, your beneficial bacteria is living in your filter and the tank won't need to cycle unless you kill your bacteria somehow. Like keeping the bacteria out of water to dry out, or running hot/cold water over it while cleaning the filter media. You are only supposed to clean your biological filter media with tank water lightly.

*You know what would be awsome if someone could explain to me step by step how they clean there tanks and what they put in the water each time ?*
Ok. Unplug everything, such as your filter, heater and air pump, or just whatever, unplug it. Then take the hood off of the tank and set it on the floor. hook the python up to the faucet. Then the python creates a suction when it's hooked up. Then you just vaccuum your gravel/sand. Then when you get it cleaned. Fill the tank back up, put the hood back on and plug everything back in. Simple as that.

If you have any more questions, please ask!
~Taylor~


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

O man I am sorry to keep on bugging like this but I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I buy my little guys. This will be the last question for the night LOL. This deals with when I clean my tank on weekly basies. I am going to buy the Python so it will make my life easier as you guys would say. I was woundering when I take 50% of the water out do I put it in a bucket and then re use it ? or do I put in clean water from the tap ? The other thing is when I use the Python to clean my gravel will it suck it up ? Does it have a trap in it or something so I dont lose my gravel ?

man I have printed out so much I am running out of paper LOL

Thanks
Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> O man I am sorry to keep on bugging like this but I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I buy my little guys. This will be the last question for the night LOL. This deals with when I clean my tank on weekly basies. I am going to buy the Python so it will make my life easier as you guys would say. I was woundering when I take 50% of the water out do I put it in a bucket and then re use it ? or do I put in clean water from the tap ? The other thing is when I use the Python to clean my gravel will it suck it up ? Does it have a trap in it or something so I dont lose my gravel ?
> 
> man I have printed out so much I am running out of paper LOL
> 
> ...


When you are taking the water out with a python, the water goes down your sink drain. One of the reasons for changing water is to lower nitrates, so you would want to use fres water from the tap.

It will pull gravel up into the tube like a normal gravel vac, but you can make the gravel fall back into the tank. Once you get it, and use it, you will get the hang of it.

Glad you are learning so much here at PFury, it is what we are here for! Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> zerkisagony said:
> 
> 
> > O man I am sorry to keep on bugging like this but I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I buy my little guys. This will be the last question for the night LOL. This deals with when I clean my tank on weekly basies. I am going to buy the Python so it will make my life easier as you guys would say. I was woundering when I take 50% of the water out do I put it in a bucket and then re use it ? or do I put in clean water from the tap ? The other thing is when I use the Python to clean my gravel will it suck it up ? Does it have a trap in it or something so I dont lose my gravel ?
> ...


Yes, you will get the hang of it. It is really easy to use. Your water pressure would have to be really high for the Python to suck up the gravel. With my water pressure the gravel raises a bit in the tube, but doesn't get close to the hole. It also depends on what size the granules of your gravel is.

I know this is a lot to digest right now, but when you get your tank up and running you can basically relax and watch your fish grow.








~Taylor~


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well thanks so so much you guys I am almost ready to go but I still have 1 more question for you guys. I will be getting the tank off of my buddy today so I am going to spend the afternoon clean it out really good. I plan on buying some fake trees and bushes and so on for the tank so my little guys have somewhere to hind. My question is when I do the fishless cycle tomorrow do i put in all my stuff in there like trees, gravel , pumps and so on ? I want to make sure I am doing things right I dont want any screw ups thats why I am asking so many questions. Is there anything you guys can think of that I need to know or do before I start cleaning the tank or before and during the fishless cycle ?

Thanks so so much

Your new friend Caine

PS Best site ever!


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Well thanks so so much you guys I am almost ready to go but I still have 1 more question for you guys. I will be getting the tank off of my buddy today so I am going to spend the afternoon clean it out really good. I plan on buying some fake trees and bushes and so on for the tank so my little guys have somewhere to hind. My question is when I do the fishless cycle tomorrow do i put in all my stuff in there like trees, gravel , pumps and so on ? I want to make sure I am doing things right I dont want any screw ups thats why I am asking so many questions. Is there anything you guys can think of that I need to know or do before I start cleaning the tank or before and during the fishless cycle ?
> 
> Thanks so so much
> 
> ...


I would just set the tank up and turn everything on but the lights and get it running.
During the cycling process, you just have to wait it out and do your water tests every day to see how it is coming along..


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

zerkisagony said:


> Well thanks so so much you guys I am almost ready to go but I still have 1 more question for you guys. I will be getting the tank off of my buddy today so I am going to spend the afternoon clean it out really good. I plan on buying some fake trees and bushes and so on for the tank so my little guys have somewhere to hind. My question is when I do the fishless cycle tomorrow do i put in all my stuff in there like trees, gravel , pumps and so on ? I want to make sure I am doing things right I dont want any screw ups thats why I am asking so many questions. Is there anything you guys can think of that I need to know or do before I start cleaning the tank or before and during the fishless cycle ?
> 
> Thanks so so much
> 
> ...


*do i put in all my stuff in there like trees, gravel , pumps and so on ?*
Yes, decorate it just as you want it while doing the cycle. Can't hurt at all, plus the tank will then be all ready when you add your fish. Have the heaters, filters, etc. on just like you would if fish were in there.

Just as mashunter said, check your water parameters every day. It will probably take longer than 2 weeks (took me that long) to cycle using the fishless cycle, because you don't have any established bacteria in your tank, and it will have to colonize from scratch. I assume that you've read the pinned topic by doctorvtec in the water chemistry forum about fishless cycling? Everything you need to know is there. Have fun cycling! 
~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I concur with the others, set your tank up exactly as you want it, and run everything but the lights.

For the fishless cycle, are you planning on using Bio Spira as your bacteria source?

Come back and ask as many questions as you have, we are hear to help, and I know I personally, and most of the people here, want to help you however we can so you can get the maximum enjoyment out of the hobby.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well thanks you guys you have helped out so much. I just got my tank I am going to do alittle smokey smokey LOL and then start cleaning it out. The fish he gave me are 5 little stripped ones, 2 big gold fish, orange fin shark and a suck up thing but cant remember what there are called. My little tank is set up for them. I spent most of the day shopping around for stuff and I am happy with what I got but there one thing thow I couldn't fined Bio-Spira anywhere where I live and everyone I asked and they said they do not carrie that and never did. But the guys at Big Al's gave me this and said it would work better which is Multi Purpose Bio-Support and Multi Purpose Bio-Clean. He says he is a piranha expert and this stuff work the best and is really fast. Man I am having so much fun right now doing all of this. I was just woundering what I should use to clean the gravel and rocks that came with the tank, I want to do things right not half ass.

Thanks

Caine

PS The reason for not messaging any of you guys is I hate bugging people


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> But the guys at Big Al's gave me this and said it would work better which is Multi Purpose Bio-Support and Multi Purpose Bio-Clean. He says he is a piranha expert and this stuff work the best and is really fast.
> [snapback]1139026[/snapback]​


I don't want to ruin your fun, but that stuff from BigAl's will do nothing to quicken up your cycle.

It is far from "the best" and will not "work better" then Bio Spira.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

zerkisagony said:


> Well thanks you guys you have helped out so much. I just got my tank I am going to do alittle smokey smokey LOL and then start cleaning it out. The fish he gave me are 5 little stripped ones, 2 big gold fish, orange fin shark and a suck up thing but cant remember what there are called. My little tank is set up for them. I spent most of the day shopping around for stuff and I am happy with what I got but there one thing thow I couldn't fined Bio-Spira anywhere where I live and everyone I asked and they said they do not carrie that and never did. But the guys at Big Al's gave me this and said it would work better which is Multi Purpose Bio-Support and Multi Purpose Bio-Clean. He says he is a piranha expert and this stuff work the best and is really fast. Man I am having so much fun right now doing all of this. I was just woundering what I should use to clean the gravel and rocks that came with the tank, I want to do things right not half ass.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


*I was just woundering what I should use to clean the gravel and rocks that came with the tank*
Definately no chemicals. I would just boil them. It will probably stink up the house so you might want to crack a window open.







You could probably use a MILD amount of bleach, but I don't think it is necssary. Just boil the rocks, and you should be fine.









*PS The reason for not messaging any of you guys is I hate bugging people*
Well, if you change your mind, I am logged onto all of my messengers (yahoo, msn, aim), and I would be happy to chat with you. Not pressuring you, just offering.








~Taylor~


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys I need some more help again. The tank I got off a guy where I live is not a 50g I think its around 30- 35g. This is what I need help with I measured the tank bright and early this morning and this is what I came up with. All this is in inches

Lenght 29.5
Width 12.5
Height 18.5

Total 6821.875
Then I divided it by 231 which gave me 29.5319

I am just woundering is this right before I start adding Dechlorinator and so on.

O ya I know its a little small BUT this is only a starter tank, I will be getting a tank thats alot bigger and to what I like since I am very picky with my pets. This tank is to see if I can get every thing right before I spend the big bucks.

Thanks

Caine


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Yeah thats a standard 29 gallon tank


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey man thanks alot now I can start my tank itself, just finished cleaning the pumps and boiled the rocks I am using. I was up at 6:00 this morning cause I couldnt sleep, I was thinking of how I am going to set up the tank and stuff.

Man you guys are so AWSOME and you get back to me realy fast

Thanks A whole Bunch

Your New Friend

Caine


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Good to see that you understand that you have upgrade to a bigger tank in the future. I wish you the best!








~Taylor~


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well guys I am on way now, everything is cleaned and set up. I added all my stuff to treat the water and so on. I will be testing the water after dinner and I will post the results so you guys can give me some pointers if you dont mind.I do have to say the tank looks pretty cooooool. I did buy the Python and WOW it works so great. And yes I do understand they will need a bigger tank and I am already preparing what to do. This is what I am going to do, My Iguana Dino lives in a big tank which is twice as big as my Piranha one so since my ex owes me some money that I dont miss. I am going to ask her to keep the money she owes me and in return I keep her 4 1/2 foot china huch which is still at my house and thats where I will put my Iguana. Man I love my pets, I have a cat who is fat and mellow so she wont bug the fish, I also have a dog which is Great Dane/ Black Lab hes just like a big kid, only 6 months old and of course I have my Iguana. Right now I have 9 small fish in my smaller tank. I guess I need something that flys (bird) LOL ya right.

I do know it will take some time before I can put any Piranhas in the tank, So I guess its just the waiting game now. I didnt put on my water heater since the temp. is sitting at 86 right now.

Thanks for all the help you guys it has made things so much easier.
Caine

PS If you have any more tips for me or anything else PLEASE let me know. I love to learn.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> I do know it will take some time before I can put any Piranhas in the tank, So I guess its just the waiting game now.
> [snapback]1139824[/snapback]​


Are you planning on following my fishless cycle article under the water chemistry section. Fishless cycling will get you there the fastest. I still am questioning that stuff Big Als sold you that is "faster and better" then Bio Spira, but we'll see what happens. Either way you need an ammonia source for the bacteria to feed off of.



zerkisagony said:


> I didnt put on my water heater since the temp. is sitting at 86 right now.
> [snapback]1139824[/snapback]​


Set your heater to 80 and you'll be good to go.



zerkisagony said:


> PS If you have any more tips for me or anything else PLEASE let me know. I love to learn.
> [snapback]1139824[/snapback]​


Read over the information sections, some of the pinned articles, and just browse the site. There's a wealth of information out there!









Good luck, we are here with you every step of the way.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Before I go out and get Ammonia do I have to start over with that stuff thats like Bio-Spira or just put in the Ammonia and things will work out ? And how much of Ammonia do I put in a 30g tank ?

The stuff I am referring to when I say its like Bio-Spira its called Bio-Support and Bio-clean from Big Al's by my house.

Thanks

CAine


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

zerkisagony said:


> Before I go out and get Ammonia do I have to start over with that stuff thats like Bio-Spira or just put in the Ammonia and things will work out ? And how much of Ammonia do I put in a 30g tank ?
> 
> The stuff I am referring to when I say its like Bio-Spira its called Bio-Support and Bio-clean from Big Al's by my house.
> 
> ...


Look HERE for all of the instructions on the fishless cycle. It will tell you how much ammonia to use, and much much more. Make sure you read all of it thoroughly, so you don't miunderstand anything. 1 misunderstanding can mean a lot and be a big mistake. Don't worry though, it is really easy. Have fun!
~Taylor~


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

OOOOO Man my brother and our friend have been bugging me to write this all afternoon, well now I given in so here it goes. For starters I live in Oshawa, Ontario and we have a Big Al's Aquarium store and the 3 of us where there Yesterday to buy our supplies for the tank. I do have to say they have never steared my mom or our friends in the wrong direction. I am NOT saying anyone is wrong I just dont know who to believe since I am new to all this, I am so lost what to do. We talking to one of the guys who works there and he has been working there for many years, he says hes been working with fish for over 30 years and he looks old enough to do so, but what do I know. This is what he said and I ask him to repeat him self a couple of times so it would stick in my head. He said that I can buy the piranhas ( they wont have until wednesday ) and put them in my tank right away with no worries ( he says he tells people to do that and he has had no problem ever ) The guy said to use Bio-Support and Bio-Clean ( which are Big Al's name brand ) and there is no need to put in Ammonia. He says the fish will produce that so there is no need for it.He said follow the directions on the 3 bottles and you can put in the piranhas on wednesday when they get them. So after he was done talking he went on lunch which another guy just came back from lunch and didnt see us talking so I thought I would be a smart ass and ask him the same stuff. He told us the same thing in different words. Both guys said if anything happens to the piranhas like die on me in the first 2 weeks they will replace them free of charge, but both said they have never had any problems. So what I am tring to say is I am so so so so so so very lost. I have no idea what to do. I am NOT saying anyone is wrong since who am I to judge since I am new to all this. I just want to do things right and have happy fish. I am very fusterated and dont know what to do. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME. I dont want anything dieing on me.

PLEASE REMEMBER I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS WRONG. I am just saying what the 2 guys told me. Now do you see why I am confused and asking so many questions. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont freak out on me I am a beginer.

Thanks

Caine

Sorry for the spelling I am not that great at it But I do try my best


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> PLEASE REMEMBER I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS WRONG. I am just saying what the 2 guys told me. Now do you see why I am confused and asking so many questions. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont freak out on me I am a beginer.
> Sorry for the spelling I am not that great at it But I do try my best
> [snapback]1140087[/snapback]​


I too have experience with water. If you do not cycle properly, you will lose fish. If this stuff works as great as they say it does, you can use it with a fishless cycle and it won't take long at all.

Any truely dedicated fish hobbyist will tell you for the optimal health of your fish, you must cycle first, unless you are using already established filters.

That said, it is your decision, and you do what you want to do. I personally would rather have the peace of mind knowing my tank is properly cycled BEFORE I put in my fish.

Is the stuff he sold your refrigerated?

I would just hate to see this guy be wrong and have the fish suffer for no reason, when all you would have to do is be patient and wait a few weeks to be sure.

I wish you luck on whatever road you take.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

As a side note. The damage that is caused by ammonia and nitrite are not always evident right away. A fish may survive initially, but the damge could be more long term. (I.E. taking some time off the fishes life).

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your fish.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks guys I am just saying what the guy said to use, I dont want any enimies here. I like this web site alot what a great tool. I need help once again from you guys. As anyone here tried Jungle labs Quick dip 5 in 1 test strips ? It test Nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity and ph. I have the ammonia quick dip and i figured how to use that but the other i am not sure if I am reading it right. I did go to there web site but that was no help. This is what i got from the tests.

Ammonia .25 this one is the only one i can read

PH over 6.0
Alkalinity .5
hardness 6
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

or its

PH 0
alkalinty 0
hardness 6
nitrite .5
nitrate over 6.0

these ones i cant tell which pad is what it doesnt say anywhere. It doesnt say what order it goes in nothing
I am not sure what numbers i am looking for i forget where I seen them on this site. Am I going in the right direction I do know its only the first day.

Please help me

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I do not care for test strips. A kit like the Aquarium Pharmacueticals Master test kit tends to be easier to read results, and can be more accurate. I do not use the dip strips so I cannot help you there.

No enemies here, I am just trying to offer you the information that I know works as far as cycling goes. What you choose to do is your decision.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I have another question. Did the salesman at Big Al's tell you that you should always use the chemicals they sold you, or did they say it was just to cycle the tank?


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## james__12345 (Mar 25, 2005)

well your ph cant be zero so it has to be ph 6 blah blah blah. As far as the fish being ok with no cycle they may live but their health would suffer. Think about people who worked in coal mines. They didnt die from the coal dust right away, but it dammaged their lungs and shortened their life. I also noticed you mentioned wanting to use feeders. If you do use feeders dont use anything from the goldfish family, use guppies or cheap mollies. All you need to do is quarentine(sp) them for a while and make sure their healthy. best of luck and feel free to add me on msn my address is [email protected]


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## PSpartan (Aug 1, 2005)

I have 9 Red Belly Piranhas which were in a 65 gallon Tank. They are one year old as of August 3rd. We have no problems so far with them fighting they seem very tight knit and don't fight. We started of with 11 but one got really sick and the other Jumped out of the tank through the back in the middle of the night and he died. So we have nine. We recently bought a new tank which is about 150 gallons, we put all the purifiers and bacterial chemicals inside and the fish store owner (BIG AL'S) said we could put them in about a half an hour. We put two in and they almost died (Started swimming sideways so we took them out and put them back in the other tank). We're stuck and are afraid to put fish in the larger tank. what should we do. We got a underwater filter running and a hanging canister filter on the larger tank.Can any one help us with the problem???


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

PSpartan said:


> I have 9 Red Belly Piranhas which were in a 65 gallon Tank. They are one year old as of August 3rd. We have no problems so far with them fighting they seem very tight knit and don't fight. We started of with 11 but one got really sick and the other Jumped out of the tank through the back in the middle of the night and he died. So we have nine. We recently bought a new tank which is about 150 gallons, we put all the purifiers and bacterial chemicals inside and the fish store owner said we could put them in about a half an hour. We put two in and they almost died (Started swimming sideways so we took them out and put them back in the other tank). We're stuck and are afraid to put fish in the larger tank. what should we do. We got a underwater filter running and a hanging canister filter on the larger tank.Can any one help us with the problem???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you mean an undergravel filter? If so, honestly it would better not to use it.

What you need to do is cycle the new tank using some established media from your old tank, and use my fishless cycling FAQ pinned in the Water Chemistry section. This should get the big tank done in about 2 weeks.

Another option you can try, if you don't plan on using the other tank, is transfer the filters from the small tank onto the new tank since they are already established.


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## PSpartan (Aug 1, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> PSpartan said:
> 
> 
> > I have 9 Red Belly Piranhas which were in a 65 gallon Tank. They are one year old as of August 3rd. We have no problems so far with them fighting they seem very tight knit and don't fight. We started of with 11 but one got really sick and the other Jumped out of the tank through the back in the middle of the night and he died. So we have nine. We recently bought a new tank which is about 150 gallons, we put all the purifiers and bacterial chemicals inside and the fish store owner said we could put them in about a half an hour. We put two in and they almost died (Started swimming sideways so we took them out and put them back in the other tank). We're stuck and are afraid to put fish in the larger tank. what should we do. We got a underwater filter running and a hanging canister filter on the larger tank.Can any one help us with the problem???
> ...


Its not an undergravel filter but a canister filter which hangs on the side and is underwater (FLUVAL) the Fish are pretty durable and they are big fish 6 in. thats why when they went sideways we were kind of shocked


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## Brett (Sep 28, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> I would like to say that I am New to this hole piranha thing. My uncle had 3 tanks when I was little until his ex smashed them with a base ball bat when he was at work. Since he pasted away I cant ask him question on how to keep piranhas witch sucks but those are the breaks I guess. I have a few questions for you guys. I am buying a 50g tank from a friend wich has 2 pumps in it. He is giving me the fish in it as well, the fish are crappy gold fish and a bunch of little ones. I plan to put the fish in my smaller tank and use them as feeders. Or should I just leave them in there ? Should I clean the tank and the pumps really good before putting in 3 baby piranhas that i will buy in there ? How long should I wait to put them in the tank ? Do i need to buy any chemicals for the water and what kind ? What kind of water testers do I need ? When changing there water what should I do ? Could I take the water from my other tank where the gold fish will be and use that ? If this helps the piranhas will be red belly.
> 
> Any help would be great
> 
> ...


Baseball bat!!!!







My first wife chased me down the street with a baseball bat after I told her her tits were saggy and pointed straight down







chicks are crazy.


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## PSpartan (Aug 1, 2005)

wait let the tank sit let it filtter for like one hole...see what kids do is they put the fish in to the new tank not caring about there fishs life because all they want to see is them swimming around in this big tank


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## Piraya33 (May 26, 2005)

Welcome to P-Fury!!! Listen to these guys, they know their stuff!!!


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys can you help me out with something. I have went out to the grocery store to get ammonia but they dont carry it. Does anybody know if Home Depot or Canadian Tire carries it ? I need to know before I go out tomorrow. I am going out to buy a new test kit cause the other one is noway near right. I do have a couple of questions. Since I dont have a eye dropper does any know how many teaspoons of ammonia to put in my tank ( ie. 2 teaspoons per 10g ) Do I need to put in ammonia every time I do a 50% water change.

Thanks

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Do I need to put in ammonia every time I do a 50% water change.
> [snapback]1141698[/snapback]​


Ammonia is only to be put in the tank during cycling, before you get your fish.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> zerkisagony said:
> 
> 
> > Do I need to put in ammonia every time I do a 50% water change.
> ...


Correct, if you added ammonia to your tank, you could really burn your fish, depending on how much you added.

Make sure when purchasing ammonia it says pure and clear right on the bottle. Also, make sure you shake it. If it get's sudsy, you don't want it. I got a gallon of ammonia from Wal-Mart for $0.89 or something like that. 
~Taylor~


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Ok guys heres an update. The kids and I were out all morning long we just got back 2 min. ago. We have found every thing we need, well I hope so anyways. It took awhile but we finaly found Ammonia but I want to make sure I am doing it right before I start. I bought an eye dropper but I need to know how much to put in, the eye dropper reads .25 .50 .75 1.0. How much do I put in per 10g I have a 30g tank if that helps. I also bought a new test kit which as alot to it the other one I had just wasnt right. One other thing I looked in 4 different fish stores and none of them carry Bio-spira and never did so I will use what I have and that is Bio-Support. It says it has 300 million live bacteria per teaspoon. Since I have added that stuff on Sunday with no ammonia should I re add it to the water with the ammonia today ? Should I take all my water out and start over ? I really dont want to BUT if I have to then I will. Please try to get back to me as soon as possible so I can things on a roll. I cant remember where I see it on this site ( In the past 5 days I have spent 3 to 4 hours a day reading stuff on this site WOW ) I am looking for the final numbers that the water should be, at the end of the cycling.

Thanks
Caine


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

zerkisagony said:


> Ok guys heres an update. The kids and I were out all morning long we just got back 2 min. ago. We have found every thing we need, well I hope so anyways. It took awhile but we finaly found Ammonia but I want to make sure I am doing it right before I start. I bought an eye dropper but I need to know how much to put in, the eye dropper reads .25 .50 .75 1.0. How much do I put in per 10g I have a 30g tank if that helps. I also bought a new test kit which as alot to it the other one I had just wasnt right. One other thing I looked in 4 different fish stores and none of them carry Bio-spira and never did so I will use what I have and that is Bio-Support. It says it has 300 million live bacteria per teaspoon. Since I have added that stuff on Sunday with no ammonia should I re add it to the water with the ammonia today ? Should I take all my water out and start over ? I really dont want to BUT if I have to then I will. Please try to get back to me as soon as possible so I can things on a roll. I cant remember where I see it on this site ( In the past 5 days I have spent 3 to 4 hours a day reading stuff on this site WOW ) I am looking for the final numbers that the water should be, at the end of the cycling.
> 
> Thanks
> Caine
> [snapback]1142641[/snapback]​


*How much do I put in per 10g I have a 30g tank if that helps.*
If you follow the fishless cycle that is pinned in this forum, you will see that you need to add 6-8 drops per 10 gallons.

*Since I have added that stuff on Sunday with no ammonia should I re add it to the water with the ammonia today ?*
Yes, I would. Your bacteria needs ammonia to feed off of, and the bacteria you added Sunday could be dead by now. Just add some more bacteria and ammonia and you should be fine. Be sure to follow the instructions of the fishless cycle though.

*Should I take all my water out and start over ?*
No. Even if your bacteria you added Sunday died, there is no reason to do a water change.

When you are cycled the parameters should be as follows:
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=high

Then you do a water change to lower the nitrates. I can't stress enough for you to read the pinned article. Click Here! Have you read it yet? It tells you exactly what to do.
~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Follow my article here:

Fishless Cycling with Ammonia

Everything is self explanatory and easy to follow. All the information you need is there.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey thanks a bunch, I have the article in hand and following it to a t. Tomorrow I will do a water test and see where I am at. You know it really doesnt bother me how long it takes. I am in this for the long hall. I want things to be A O K before I bring Piranhas into the picture. As of today I have myself a new tank witch I will use later down the road for the piranhas and the 4 1/2 foot huch will be the new home for my iguana. I realy dont know what to say to you guys but thanks seems so little.

Thanks

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Hey thanks a bunch, I have the article in hand and following it to a t. Tomorrow I will do a water test and see where I am at. You know it really doesnt bother me how long it takes. I am in this for the long hall. I want things to be A O K before I bring Piranhas into the picture. As of today I have myself a new tank witch I will use later down the road for the piranhas and the 4 1/2 foot huch will be the new home for my iguana. I realy dont know what to say to you guys but thanks seems so little.
> [snapback]1143099[/snapback]​


No thanks needed. Pictures of your happy fish after you get them would be nice though....


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well guys I will post some pics when I get the little guys, my buddy has a dvd camcorder of some sort all I know its realy cool. I just did my first water test and everything went smooth as my kids but







I am not expecting to much since it is only the first test but are the results.

Nitrate - its inbetween 0 and 5

PH - 7.6

Nitrite - 0.1

Ammonia - 0

GH - 60

KH - 70

Are these numbers any good for a first test ? One thing could you guys tell me what numbers I should look for as far as GH and KH ?

Thanks

Caine


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

zerkisagony said:


> Well guys I will post some pics when I get the little guys, my buddy has a dvd camcorder of some sort all I know its realy cool. I just did my first water test and everything went smooth as my kids but
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your pH is great. 7.6 is pure water. My pH is the same from the tap, but unfortunately I did a little experiment and it turns out that my gravel is boosting it to 8.0. It's still not bad, but I'd rather have 7.6. In other words, I don't reccommend getting natural gravel from Wal-Mart.

Your nitrite is going up, you will know it spiked once it starts going down. Then you will cut the ammonia dosage in half. Well you already know that since you have been reading the article.







Good luck and happy cycling. It shouldn't take more than 2 weeks because you added some beneficial bacteria.








~Taylor~


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Have you added ammonia yet?

You have low nitrates, nitrite, and no ammonia thus far, so you are pretty much at the begining of your cycle.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well yes I added my Ammonia yesterday at 7:30pm and I have written up a time table to add stuff soI dont get messed up. I will be adding more Ammonia tonight at 7:30 and then doing a test on the water tomorrow at about 6:30 or so and then I will add my Ammonia after that. I will be doing test every day to see where I am at. I write all my results down on paper and keep track of them. As my brother would tell you I dont do things half ass. I was woundering about the GH and KH results are they OK. For those two what should the numbers be around ? I am hoping when my water is A O K they will still have piranhas at the fish store since there is only 1 out 5 fish stores have them in my city. O well if not I will get my ex's car and drive an hour way to get them it dont bother me any, I just want the best looking fish I can find meaning ones with eyes. the store by my place has a problem with there Piranhas and missing eyes, I dont want that crap, I want healthy little guys. Hey is there any on this site from around the Toronto area that could tell me a few good fish stores to go to, thats has lots of fish.

Thanks

Caine

PS GH and KH what should the numbers be ?


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys I am just woundeing a few things with cycling. How high will the numbers go before they start to drop off. I am looking for the Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia readings how will they go. I just want some idea of what I am looking for. Could someone PLEASE tell what the numbers should be at for PH and KH.

Thanks

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Hey guys I am just woundeing a few things with cycling. How high will the numbers go before they start to drop off. I am looking for the Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia readings how will they go. I just want some idea of what I am looking for. Could someone PLEASE tell what the numbers should be at for PH and KH.
> [snapback]1148825[/snapback]​


Your ammonia should top out at 3, nitrite around 4-5, nitrate at 40+.

When you see your nitrite number drop, that is when you cut your ammonia in half.

There is no set numbe for GH/KH, they, GH/KH/pH, are three numbers that are all coincide with eachother. Your numbers are fine.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys this is coooool I am on my way, my reading have went way way way up. These are my test results from today at 1:00 pm.

Nitrate - 110

PH - 8.2

Nitrite - 1.6

Ammonia - 7.3

GH - 80

KH - 50

I worried about my Ammonia being so high, should I start cutting back on it or take a day or 2 off from putting in Ammonia ? STUPID me put more in before reading the posts DAMM I am stupid some times. Yes I have read the fishless cycle article but a couple of things confuse me still. Has my Nitrate peaked yet at 110 ? I didnt do a test on Saturday due to I worked realy late and was sick on top of that but here are my numbers from Friday. You can see what jump in numbers, its crazy to me.

Fridays numbers from the water test

Nitrate - 5
PH - 7.6
Nitrite - 0.3
Ammonia - 0

I wasnt sure if I did the tests right today cause of the jump in numbers so I test the water again and got the same results so I must be doing something right I guess. Its been fun doing all the tests everyday It feels like I am a CSI lab guy







Just woundering am I on the right track and if not could someone steer me in the right direction.

Sorry to ask this agian, with numbers for Ammonia being so high should I cut back or skip a day or 2 of the ammonia dosage ?

Thanks for all the help you guys

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

How much ammonia have you been putting in your tank? That is a major jump for two days, as is the nitrate.

Lay off the ammonia until it gets down to 3 ppm. Then cut your daily dose in half when the nitrite starts to fall.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys I just did a water test and I was just woundering how my number look to you guys. Here are my numbers

Nitrate - 5

PH - 7.4

Nitrite - 0.1

Ammonia - 0

GH - 80

KH - 30

So guys how do they look ? Am I getting close to being done ? Just woundering how many days to go do you figure ? When do you think i can get my fish in there ?

I am getting realy excited now I just cant wait, I hope its soon but if not I can wait a little longer.

Thanks

CAine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Hey guys I just did a water test and I was just woundering how my number look to you guys. Here are my numbers
> 
> Nitrate - 5
> 
> ...


You seem to be getting there.

Note, theres no need to check your GH/KH at this time. Hopefully that will save you some time.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Coooool I am almost there. I was just woundering how high does the Nitrate need to be, whats the magic number I am looking for.

Thanks

Caine


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys I hate to keep on buging like this but you guys have been sooo coooool to me and with helping me out. I really need to know what my Nitrate should be ? I would like to know what your guys numbers are for Nitrate so it gives me some kind of and idea. My Nitrite and Ammonia are at 0, so can someone stear me in the right direction.

Please get back to me as soon as possible

thanks

caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Hey guys I hate to keep on buging like this but you guys have been sooo coooool to me and with helping me out. I really need to know what my Nitrate should be ? I would like to know what your guys numbers are for Nitrate so it gives me some kind of and idea. My Nitrite and Ammonia are at 0, so can someone stear me in the right direction.
> 
> Please get back to me as soon as possible
> 
> ...


Tapwater will usually contain an amount of nitrate, usually under 5 ppm. If after a water changed you are below 20 ppm, you should be fine.

I personally like mine to be under 20 ppm at all times, and 10 ppm or lower after a change. But thats me, and I'm picky about my water.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys just did my every day water test and this is what I got from it.

Nitrate - 0 to 5 there is some colour there but not really

Nitrite - 0.1 there really isnt any coulour to match to the graft

Ammonia - 0

Is my tank finished ? Do I do a water change now ?

0ne more question when I do a water change do I unplug my filters ?

Hey you guys are the best around, thanks for taking me step by step and answering all my questions quick time

Your new friend

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Are you still adding daily ammonia to the tank?

Have you done water changes? What is the highest your nitrates have been?


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

yes I am still adding ammonia but I cut it in half. My nitrate went up to 110 and then slowly went down. No I havent done a water change yet. Should I be doing one ? Here are my numbers from tonight.

Nitrate - 0 to 5

Nitrite - 0

Ammonia - 0

What should I do know ? Is it ok to get my rbps yet ?

Thanks

caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> yes I am still adding ammonia but I cut it in half. My nitrate went up to 110 and then slowly went down. No I havent done a water change yet. Should I be doing one ? Here are my numbers from tonight.
> 
> Nitrate - 0 to 5
> 
> ...


Do you have plants?

I am trying to figure out how your nitrates dropped from 110, to 5 so quickly. Usually nitrates will spike up high, and remain there until you do a water change, unless you have plants.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well hey Doc I will be my best to explain myself so here it goes. I dont have any live plants but I do have a bunch of fake stuff like bushes, trees, skull and a cool looking rock with holes in it. I have 2 filters in my tank the ones that sit on the back on the tank and and have a tub that goes half way down my tank. The one is only a couple of months old and the other one is a year old, thats what the guy told me. The guy forgot to give me th instuction for them and he has moved so I cant get them from him. The filters work very well. I read that there is no such thing as to much filtraion is this true ? The hole tank was running for just over a year with fish in it. I put those fish it another tank for use later on down the road. I cleaned the tank when I got it but I didnt go nuts on it. I cleaned the filters, rocks and the inside of the tank before I put in the new water and stuff. I did water tests everyday expect I took 2 days off of testing, due to I was realy sick in bed. It just my brother and my kids that live with me and no one touches my tank except for me cause I dont trust my brother to do anything right. The only things I added to the tank were ammonia, bio-clean, bio-support and water conditioner. I did every thing the article said to a T. This is all of that I can think of right now I just got up.

Thanks Doc

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Something is not adding up.

In most cases nitrates will not just disappear, unless you have live plants, or are doing water changes.

I have two theories. Either you are having problems with testing, or the stuff Big Al's sold you is tinkering with things.

I am going to try and call in the troops on this one, to see if they can help shed some light. 4 heads are better then 1.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys just trying to keep you posted my water tests have stayed the same now for a week. Can I do a water change and get my rbps today ?

Here are my results

Nitrate - 0 to 5 some colour but not much

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

I still have been adding my ammonia until lastnight, but I need to know if I am done cycling my tank ?

Thanks

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Hey guys just trying to keep you posted my water tests have stayed the same now for a week. Can I do a water change and get my rbps today ?
> 
> Here are my results
> 
> ...


What test kit are you using? The whole nitrate thing is still bugging me.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Well i am using a Nitrate test kit from Hagen its a liquid test kit and then I am using a master test kit which tests for Nitrite, ammonia, carbonate and hardness and PH low and high range, that is a liquid test kit as well. I also have a dip test kit which the numbers match my liquid tests. I used both kits this morning and got the same results.

What do I do now ?

Thanks

Caine


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

zerkisagony said:


> Well i am using a Nitrate test kit from Hagen its a liquid test kit and then I am using a master test kit which tests for Nitrite, ammonia, carbonate and hardness and PH low and high range, that is a liquid test kit as well. I also have a dip test kit which the numbers match my liquid tests. I used both kits this morning and got the same results.
> 
> What do I do now ?
> 
> ...


I am thinking it is something with the Big Als stuff you used. In most cases, nitrates won't drop without live plants or a water change. Since you have 0 ammonia and nitrite, and both have spiked and dropped, I would assume you are cycled, and the Big Als stuff is killing off the nitrates.

I am going to message JP and see if he'll chime in as well.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Caine,

From what i understand is that Bio-support which claims to contain live bacteria but is highly doubtful due to being an over the counter item. It is similar to AP Stress Zyme which does prime a tank for the nitrifying process to take place and to get your live bacteria thriving. Doesn't hurt to have it.

The bio-clean is actually a "digestor" which i would not recommend using during a cycle because it is probably eating away the ammonia depriving your new beneficial bacteria of it. I would not add anymore if i were you and continue with your cycle for one more week and retest. Continue with your ammonia source whether its pure ammonia or cheap fish.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

jerry_plakyda said:


> Caine,
> 
> From what i understand is that Bio-support which claims to contain live bacteria but is highly doubtful due to being an over the counter item. It is similar to AP Stress Zyme which does prime a tank for the nitrifying process to take place and to get your live bacteria thriving. Doesn't hurt to have it.
> 
> ...


:nod:

Said from the beginning that stuff was trouble.


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey Doc and PJ, I am not happy with my ex but on one hand I am. On Tuesday my brother and our friends took me out bar hopping to get me out of the house, I havent been out of my house in like three weeks but thats a story in its self. I came home piss loaded and went to bed, when I woke up on Wednesday I did my daily things feeding my dog and my iguana and I fed my other fish in my 10g tank. Just when I went to walk away I seen a flash in my big tank so I took a closer look and to my surprise there were fish in there. There was a letter stuck to computer monitor. She said she wanted to do something nice for me since I do alot for her. She said our kids told her that the water in the tank was fine and ready for fish so she went out Tues. night and bought me some fish. She picked me up 2 RBPs, 2 see through fish, 2 neons, suck up guy and a tone of food. Well the neons didnt last to long. The 2 RBPs ate them, nothing was left from them completty gone head to tail. After watching them swim around and stuff they are not as scared as what people say. They eat in front of me with out hesitation. They are by far the coolist fish ever. The letter said how to feed them from what the guy at the store told her. It said to feed them twice a day, 1/2 a cub in the morning and 1/2 at night but that not enough for these guys so I feed them 3 cubes, one in the morning, one in the after noon, one at night and the little guys eat it all up in no time. Every one gets into it, the little see through guys eats and so does the suck up guy to. The RBP try to go after the see through guys but they stop when they boot away, I think it cause they are see through cause I have a hrd time watching them when they swim away fast. The letter didnt say where she got them, I cant even call her cause she left me her cell phone so she wouldnt be bugged. I called Bigals on wednesday and they said no one bought piranha on tuesday and all she said she went out of her way to get them. The little RBPs are getting a bit of a belly on them since I got them. They look so much healthier since wednesday, they have a nice red bottom fin. I do have lots of hiding place for them and they choose the open water. When they want to chill out they sit in the skull I have for them. There not going crazy all over the place they seem pretty calm, swim around with on worries. When I open the lid to feed them every one comes to the top even the suck up guy. The RBPs are about 1 1/2 inches with no fine nips. I do have to say thanks for all the help with my tank, saying thanks just doesnt cut it but THANKS so much. So some guys say this is a hobby but I say they are my pets.

Thanks

Caine


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

Sorry it took so long to get over here.
As was said, there is something definately not right if your nitrates disappeared like that. Either you are using the test kits wrong, or reading the results wrong. 
As for your question of when can you do a water change...any time you like. There is no reason not to do water changes while cycling (unless you are doing the fishless thing). If you are doing fishless, then do a 50% change just before you add fish and keep up a consistent 30-50% change no less then every 2 weeks. More often is preferable.
The bacteria products...crap IMHO. There has never been any research to show that the bacteria responsible for nitrification are capable of encysting to the point of being able to survive in powdered or bottled form. I cant imagine it would hurt anything aside from your wallet, but I highly doubt it helps much. And as JP said the other stuff could well be messing things up.


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## ronzz (Oct 26, 2004)

rehome the gold fish they deserve better they r matured don,t kill em put em in a bowl they ain,t dumb the reds will kill em but is that right????


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

I am not sure what the guy in the last post was saying but I have 2 tanks one houses my 2 piranhas and the other tank as my goldfish and a few others in it. The other fish I have (goldfish and others ) came with the tank I got, those fish will be used once in a blue moon as feeders but the goldfish will be in that tank for a long time cause they are so big. The baby reds now know when its feeding time, when I open the lid them come to the top and wait for food and they eat in front of us since day one. They are by far the coolist fish ever, my brother, my kids and I spend a couple of hours a day watching them. Since I am incharge of feeding them I feed them 3 times a day with bloodworms and shrimp cubes. I have not had them a week yet and you can tell that they have grown. A little each day you can see the red comming out, every beautiful colours. They are our pride and joy.

Thanks

Caine


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## zerkisagony (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys my RBPs are doing awsome in there tank. I need some more help and I know I am in the wrong form but the guys in the other form are alittle slow getting back to me. I am starting a salt water tank and I wanted to know if the fishless cycle is the same for saltwater as it is for fresh water ? Do I still add ammonia to the saltwater tank ? should I follow the fishless article like I did before ?

Thanks

Caine


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