# New Tank! YAY!!



## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Hello all!

So I've got the new aquarium set up and cycling as we speak. I've attached some photos and am looking for some suggestions or someone with some more experience to point out some problems I might have with my plans.









Let me start by stating the obvious, the light setup on this tank is temporary. I'm currently looking for a light fixture to fit my needs. I'd like to go low tech/ low light on this setup (I say "I'd like" but it's more like "I can't afford anything but"







) So right now I've found a light fixture that is 80 watts, 6200K for a reasonable price or a 60 watt setup (unsure of the Kelvin rating) and will stay away from CO2. What do ya think?

Now, for my idea of plants. I've been searching around here, Dr. Foster, Google, and Plantgeek and think that I have a pretty good idea of what plants I can use and will look good. Throwing caution to the wind and putting my research on the line, here goes. On the left side, behind the driftwood, I was thinking of going with some Cryptocoryne Retrospiralis or some Contortionist Val. Hopefully, this would grow to near the top of the tank as a good backdrop. Around and in front of the driftwood I was going to put in some Petite Nana as a carpet, and lastly throw some Java Moss on the driftwood itself.

As kind of a "riverbed" and to go with my concave design I was going to sparsely place some black stones in the middle of the tank (lining it up pretty much with the slate piece I've got against the back wall). So, no plants there.

On the right side, where the substrate raises, I was going to do a backdrop using a couple (or a few) Amazon Sword plants. *Now, here is where I really need some help as I was hoping to find a middle ground plant with some color in it for aesthetic appeal.* Then I was wondering, for a carpet, if it would be better to go with the Petite Nana to tie it to the other side or to go with Pygmy Crypt for more variety?

I think that about sums it up, thank you if you've made it this far in the reading!!







Now, on with the photos so you can put all of this gibberish onto a real image.

Hopefully that all works!
Thank you,
CHAD


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Just curious what you have layered in there?
Usually it mixes in the end if its sand and a lighter material.
I'm no expert on the plants so I'd wait for the experienced which I'm sure will reply shortly.
Plant Geek has helped me out as far as plants...there are a few members here that thin out their planted tanks and sell off what they have.
It may be cheaper for ya in the end.

Good luck


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

What size tank is that....55?


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Notaverage- It's just plant substrate and then sand. When I first was setting it up I bought just sand for a substrate but after researching a bit I found that it would be a lot better using plant substrate so I picked that up and used that, but I had the left over sand in one of my 5 gallon buckets all cleaned up so just to not waste the sand I poured it over the top. *shrug* If it mixes eventually, no biggie.

Rocco- It is a 55 gallon.

Chad


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Any help?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

I would scratch the idea of the petite nana as a foreground plant. It grows real slow, and I mean real slow. It does better tied to something like driftwood rather that being used as a foreground plant. You can put a couple in the foreground, but it will take a year or more to grow twice its size. The pygmy crypt is going to be harder to find, and you might need to spend some money to get the amount you need. Once again, crypts are really slow growers, especially in low light. Get the amount you need because chances are they wont grow fast, and they will melt (top part dies) and you will be stuck with just a few plants.

Every thing else you posted seems good, and it looks like you did your homework. As for the foreground plant, you have some options. Color usually comes from high light, so your probably going to have better success at trying easy plants and working your way up in light to achieve color. I would suggest Marsilea minuta for a clover field look or Sagittaria subulata for a grass look. These plants are easy to grow, and are most of the time, easy to find. I have grown both and like them both.

If you want some color, try some crypt wendtii. It comes in green, bronze, and red. You can put little pieces all over you tank and it looks great. Also, Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon', has a slight reddish tint and is really easy to grow. Also, check out Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig'. It has a pinkish vein in the middle of the leaf and looks cool.


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Thank you SO much for your response!

Your ideas/tips are great too. (of course, I expected that from this forum)







I really like the look of the Sagittaria subulata for my foreground plant and as far as color goes the Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' looks awesome! (I know I won't get the greatest potential color out of it in low light, but if I can get it looking half as colorful as I've seen them in pictures it'll look awesome in my tank.

Thanks again (this site is full of awesomeness)









Chad


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Lighting fixtures online aren't too expensive...especially for lower light. It looks like you have the plastic lids. You're going to need to ditch those and get glass lids (cheaper online). Coralife makes a 54w T-5 fixture that would be perfect for a lowlight setup.

You've had some good advice already for plants. Your ideas for background behind the driftwood are fine, up front you would be better off with dwarf sag as mentioned. You won't get much more than one amazon sword on the right with a 12" wide tank. You might be able to center it in that section towards the back and put some red wendtiis in front to either side, but they will get crowded. I think you would be better served by a midground sword such as a melon or ozelot...you might even be able to get a small group of them in that space (I've got an all melon sword 75g going right now and kind of like it since they stay low...I did not like all amazons as they took over the tank).

If ti were my tank, I would put some tall crypts behind the driftwood and a carpet of red wendtiis in front. On the right hand side then, I would do a carpet of dwarf sag and no background plants (or your vals or regular sag if you really want some background plants). That would be a nice low maintenance low light setup. Swords really like higher light and space. They do best as centerpiece or focal points in the tank, but your driftwood and river already accomplish that. Adding a nice sword and too many types of plants risk making it look too busy and too much work! I don't like stem plants in a p tank as they get leggy and require too much trimming and replanting.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

So true about stem plants Piranha Teach. I stopped using them because I got too lazy to trim so much.


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks all!

This is the type of advice I've come to expect from this forum... ya'll are awesome!







All of these suggestions are being taken into account this week when I start to get some plants... as of now, I've godda get some sleep, but THANKS!!

Chad


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Just wondering if anyone here on the forum is looking to get rid of some of the plants that have been mentioned in this post. I talked to two LFS' in my area and while both carry very limited amounts of some of these plants, they are very limited in their numbers. They told me they'd be able to order any sort of plant I wanted and in any number but I thought I'd check here first before I put in my orders.

Also, if I were to put in an order I have NO idea how many of each plant I should pick up to get good coverage. Any ideas?

Chad


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Piranhoia said:


> Just wondering if anyone here on the forum is looking to get rid of some of the plants that have been mentioned in this post. I talked to two LFS' in my area and while both carry very limited amounts of some of these plants, they are very limited in their numbers. They told me they'd be able to order any sort of plant I wanted and in any number but I thought I'd check here first before I put in my orders.
> 
> Also, if I were to put in an order I have NO idea how many of each plant I should pick up to get good coverage. Any ideas?
> 
> Chad


Get them online...AquaBid is a good place to get hard to find plants in decent numbers cheap.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Check out http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/sale-trade/ and http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/.

You can find a lot of stuff on there.


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Quick question again on lighting... How many watts per gallon is considered "low light"? Some places I've read say that it is considered low lighting if you're between 1 and 1.5 watts per gallon. Is it possible to grow low light plants at .8 watts per gallon?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Piranhoia said:


> Quick question again on lighting... How many watts per gallon is considered "low light"? Some places I've read say that it is considered low lighting if you're between 1 and 1.5 watts per gallon. Is it possible to grow low light plants at .8 watts per gallon?


I grow plants quite well in my tank with .8 wpg. For your 55 gallon, I would recommend a little more. Check out the coralife t-5 light that piranha teach mentioned earlier.


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks for the reply maknwar, I'll definitely take a look into a T-5 setup.

A question about getting a good amount of plant coverage on my tank. I'm looking to do a complete backdrop of the tall crypts, otherwise following Piranha Teach's layout to the T. How many of each plant should I be ordering? Aquaticplantdepot.com carries all of the plants mentioned (the crypts, wendtii, dwarf sag, and java moss) and at the best price I could find so I'm looking to put in my order soon, I just don't want to order too little or waste money ordering too many. Any ideas? It's the standard 48" by 12" footprint.

Thanks,

Chad


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Piranhoia said:


> Thanks for the reply maknwar, I'll definitely take a look into a T-5 setup.
> 
> A question about getting a good amount of plant coverage on my tank. I'm looking to do a complete backdrop of the tall crypts, otherwise following Piranha Teach's layout to the T. How many of each plant should I be ordering? Aquaticplantdepot.com carries all of the plants mentioned (the crypts, wendtii, dwarf sag, and java moss) and at the best price I could find so I'm looking to put in my order soon, I just don't want to order too little or waste money ordering too many. Any ideas? It's the standard 48" by 12" footprint.
> 
> ...


It's hard to say since you never know what size/width of plants you are going to get. It can also be a pain to plant too close together because of the room you need to get those roots down in. Look at your tank and try to visualize how many it will take to get a fairly even cover and order a few more (or as many as you can afford). I would order around 30+ of the tall crypts if they are bare root, 15+ if potted (not sure if you're going for one straight row or two staggered rows). I would order around the same amount of the wendtiis and dwarf sag based on your layout...remember that you can always seperate potted plants out, but it is a pain for more than a few pots. Bare root is the best for getting a nice even (thin) spread right away while potted is best for getting some thick mounds right away. Both ways will fill in nicely over time.


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Some updating...

So I went with 20 of each plant (wait for the end, as I've already re-uped) and they arrived in good time and good shape. I was soon doing the first "planting" of something since I was on the farm!








The planting went well and I realized I should have gotten a few more of the dwarf sag and probably double the retrospiralis. After a few days in the tank, howerver, I noticed the retrospiralis were having a real rough go due to crypt melt. After a week most of the retrospiralis' had melted down to the substrate.







I started to get real glad I hadn't ordered 35 plants that would've melted down like this! It's like I don't have a background at all.









So now, I've put in another order to finish filling in my dwarf sag and to change up my background plants a bit... I decided to go with the Corkscrew Val instead. And some Grrrrreat news, I've been seeing some regrowth within the retrospiralis'! I've looked online at some pictures of mixed plant backgrounds and I like the way they look so hopefully in a few months I'll have this as well. What do you think of this idea?

I've attached some photos from day two of the planted tank to get some opinions and/or suggestions. The tank has since cycled and I'm itching to get the horny RB couple in their new home so their babies can have a tank to themselves (finally!) so I cannot wait until these new plants come in so I can plant them without worrying about my little buddies in the tank freaking out. Exciting times now!!

ThAnKs all!

Chad


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Crypts will melt on you, but always bounce back. Looks pretty good so far! You could always move all the retro to to behind the dwarf sag and put the corkscrew val you're getting behind the other crypts. That would probably make your life a whole lot easier in the long run.

Just noticed you still don't have that T-5 fixture yet...get it already and get some ferts while you're at it! Those plants will fill in before you know it and you'll have a jungle on your hands!

I just started dosing my lowlight 40g more regularly and the tiger lotus and dwarf sag have gone nuts!


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

looking good, but like teach said get a better light fixture it should help you combat the algea battle that is just around the corner







dwarf sag does very well in my tanks and makes a great carpet, like teach also said the vals will melt they do for all of us but dont dig it out cause you think its dead it will send up new leaves or a baby plant sooner or later after it comes outa shock.

go buy some API root tabs and put it in the substrate they will help you get some good growth and healthy looking plants straight off the bat


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## Piranhoia (Sep 18, 2008)

Piranha Teach- You're a savior! You're right, I haven't gotten the T-5 setup yet, I simply fit a light from a different tank I had laying around. Do you have a good link of where to pick up that fixture? Also, when I switch over what do I use for the top of the tank? I've been looking into ferts, but it's about as overwhelming as lighting and plant selection... Which ones do I need? Which are completely unnecessary? I'm taking everything pretty slowly and trying to keep it as low maintenance and low cost as possible (as I'm now running three tanks (all with fish with different diets and such))

Once again, thank you.

Chad


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Checkout BigAl's for the 48" Coralife T-5 Fixture. You'll need the glass lids too, but I don't think BigAl's carries them.

As far as ferts, go with 500ml of Fluorish Excel (I'd get 2 bottles or a 2l...2l of Excel and 500ml of the others will last a long time for a 55g), Fluorish Comprehensive, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Potassium, Fluorish Nitrogen, and Fluorish Phosphorus. I try to dose Excel every day and dose about double strength. I hit the Iron, Phosphorus, and Potassium the day after a weekly water change, and the Iron and Comprehensive a few days later. If I skip a water change, I still dose on schedule. If you go away on vacation or get off schedule it is no biggie with low light. You can dose more frequently or less frequently as needed for any of the fertz.

Excel is expensive these days for how much you need to use, but it and the Comprehensive are a must IMO. The plants need the other ferts to stay strong and healthy and to fill in and get/stay lush. My dwarf sag will get patchy, pale, and thin if I don't dose ferts for a while and your crypt growth will slow to a crawl. You really need to hit your tank with them all if you want it to fill in and thrive. There are cheaper alternatives if you mix your own, but figuring out the mixing and dosing may be more than you want to tackle...I know it was for me even after doing a lot of research into it.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

I know someone may disagree but Aquatraders has came a LONG way with their lighting. They used to have a terrible rep, but all seems well now. You can pick up fixtures cheap. If I was in the market for lighting I would defiantly check them out.


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