# Coral Or Fish First?



## Guest (Apr 18, 2011)

So I'm mixing up my saltwater now, and tomorrow I should have my live rock in the tank. I was looking around and asked various different LFS specialised in reefs what should go in first after the cycle is complete, corals or fish. And I've received different answers from everyone. 
So what is the correct way? Corals first or fish first?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Is the tank cycled?

1) live rock
2)hardy fish and cuc
3) coral

Coral is deffinitly last. Though beginner coral should be fine right away it is best to wait a while before adding corals


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

if it's a reef then cleanup crew first. the only reason, in my opinion, that you would add fish first is if you're going to have a significant bioload relative to the size of your tank. the fish waste and food could potentially start a mini cycle in the tank, that wouldn't be good for sensitive corals.

but generally, if your filtration is good and you're diligent with your husbandry then i personally don't see a difference.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

1. Live sand substrate
2.Live rock and shrimp
3. fish
4.corals

I would like to see some pics when you have it set up.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks every one, that answered my question.

No the tank isn't cycled yet, it's currently cycling. I've only got my live sand and water in now. I'm letting the water clear up a bit then I'll go and buy live rock today to start cycling because I also forgot to buy a test kit.

How long does the cycling process usually take with a SW tank? I understand FW cycling and tricks to essentially speed it up, can this be done with a SW tank?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Traveller said:


> Thanks every one, that answered my question.
> 
> No the tank isn't cycled yet, it's currently cycling. I've only got my live sand and water in now. I'm letting the water clear up a bit then I'll go and buy live rock today to start cycling because I also forgot to buy a test kit.
> 
> How long does the cycling process usually take with a SW tank? I understand FW cycling and tricks to essentially speed it up, can this be done with a SW tank?


Use a piece of shrimp just like fresh water... any ammonia source works great. Bigger tanks take more time to do all of this obviously.

My tanks go in this order typically:
*System setup (getting everything in place, skimmer, sump, any main components)
*RO/DI water (NOTHING BUT 0TDS REVERSE OSMOSIS DE IONIZED WATER, anything else is a death wish for your tank and it will spiral out of control with each water change), water test for leaks and bring tank to temp to prevent calcium precipitate
*Add salt slowly, use any pumps and powerheads you have to mix and oxygenate
It takes 12-24 hrs for the SW mix to become PH stable as o2 and Co2 levels balance and clear up, things that might kill your "live" sand or rock, not to mention the cold water from your RO unit.
*Add sand, I use a large tupperware and slowly lower it to the bottom of the tank and pour, as opposed to pouring from the top and making it more cloudy
-would like to note here, that mixing water in separate bins and then adding it AFTER sand works great also, use a dinner plate, with a bowl in the center to prevent the stream from mixing up the sand. 
*Fire up pumps, filtration, add filter pads and socks to catch debris for a day or two, be sure to protect pump intakes from suspended sand!
*Stack rock outside tank and get an idea of your scape, it sucks to take it in and out 100 times. I prefer dry base rock, and a small piece of live rock, a bag of "pods" or fuge goo from another tank to help the cycle get going. Every system is different, so if you can get sand from 10 reputable tanks you can create a huge diversity of bacteria, as opposed to one source...
*First group of fish (light load) and snails/cleanup after skimmer breaks in, and algae outbreak... If everything is done right, you can almost completely avoid a visible cycle and multiple algae breaks. Always quarantine new fish and corals, Its best to control every aspect of whats in your tank the best you can from day one (why I like dry base rock to begin with, no hitchhikers or AEFW, bugs I dont want!) I have seen one fish wipe out 1000$ of other fish in the blink of an eye... the 155 bow owner lost an impressive fish list because he jumped the gun on adding a fish he liked, and it put a 6 month hold on things. 
*second group of fish, if you make a stock list these would be the more aggressive and territorial fish. You will be constantly adding fish, but its best to get the list and ideas what you want before hand... introducing the wrong fish first, might not allow other fish to be added.

Corals are expensive, and algae outbreaks, not to mention ANY fluctuation in other parameters (temp, PH, CA, salinity, on and on...) can kill them quickly... once you think your tank is stable, and you have tested it routinely for a month or two(get a notebook and WRITE IT DOWN, its amazing to be able to look back and find trends down the road!) you could start with some softies or more tolerant things that like "dirtier" water. If mushrooms and most softies start to die or just dont grow in your tank (because the water is over skimmed and filtered ideally, you will know with your test kit) SPS will be something to look into. LPS will tolerate some aspects of both, but not extremes.

There are lots of variables, and things that constantly change in your tank for the first year or more... You will ALWAYS be tweaking things to get it the way you want for the first few months, and dialing things in because each tank is unique. Dont waste money on lots of livestock right off the bat until you get it on track. After you know SW more, you will be able to cut that time down in setting up tanks... It IS totally possible to setup a new tank and add fish and everything in one day, but doesnt work if one small aspect is off. Because everything is linked, it spirals downhill quickly. (Temp is linked to Oxygen and CO2 which change PH, which is linked to Calcium carrying capacity, DKh, and Magnesium CC which is linked to... changing your skimmer or covering your tank, dosing wrong, water changes and testing the SW before adding it, even temperature can change many other things you wouldnt think about with fresh water)

Read, read, read from as MANY sources as your possibly can... you will find what works for YOU and your tank! Dont hesitate to ask questions either, and post some pictures as well!!


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks for all the info Ægir









The tank is only a 16 gallon and I'm using it as my learner tank before I set up a larger SW tank. The whole SW thing is new to me so I'm taking it slowly making sure I learn as much as I can before I head out and try a 75gal+ tank. So far I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the info out there and different variables unlike FW but it's fun. I'm sticking to the basics and won't be trying any tricky corals anytime soon until I can keep soft corals alive and well.

I will post some pics once the tank clears up and I have the rock in.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

You want your lr in for cycling as it holds your bb.

Also learn about the corals you eventually want and their placement. Corals may look pretty but certain ones will kill others. Recently I lost a yellow leather to I beleive a couple of my palys that grew towards it and started stinging it one day.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

Before LR
















After LR







I don't like that piece in the front right, I'm going to try to take it back and get some smaller pieces.

































I left the LR in a slope to allow water circulation behind them and between them, although the pictures don't show it clearly. It's a noobish scape though seeing that the main focus in the tank will be a clown with and an anemone I didn't see the need to get fancy with caves and such and personally I like the look of a piled up scape.
If anyone could point out anything they saw on the LR that doesn't look good would be great.









ps. If mods could combine all my threads into one thread called "nano reef build" or something similar as I feel I've spammed a little







, thanks


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Nice start, im not a fan of the "pile of rocks" scapes. You should have got 2 or 3 larger pieces instead of many small ones. Still it can be done, good luck.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

Danny Tanner said:


> Nice start, im not a fan of the "pile of rocks" scapes. You should have got 2 or 3 larger pieces instead of many small ones. Still it can be done, good luck.


Thanks


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

You also got to factor in with nano tanks that corals will also come attached to LR adding to clutter. Best way for me on my nano was it was 20g, so I had 14-15 lbs of LR mostly big pieces and an open hardscape. After corals were added I had around 20lbs in there. Initially i made the mistake of buying around 25-30 lbs of rock for my 20g and after I had everything in there I was like Where the f*ck am i going to put everything.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

Ye I thought about that after I bought and put in the LR, I've got 22lbs in there now so when it comes time to add corrals I will be moving everything around a bit and getting rid of some pieces







It's one hell of a learning experience though


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

But its fun as f*ck, you see how everything behaves and works with eachother, reefs are true aquariums. In the sense that they in theory can support themselves. Everything works with eachother from the sand, to the lr, to the bristle worms an pods in the rock, to the fish and coral, you get my drift player?


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2011)

Fo shizzle . . .


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

seems like a lot of rock for a 16g w/ clown and nem. personally, i would've used around half of what you have. i've become more of a minimalist as of late. if you don't want to use some of the rock, you can always just keep it stored and use it as dry rock to be seeded for a future endeavor. with a lot of rock you run the risk of having dead areas that collect a lot of detritus.

anyway, looks good so far.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

I like that much rock though like said be aware coral will take up more space. My next scape I will probably try to keep rockwork to a minimum but for a first scape you cant go wrong with a pile of rocks as it gives you plenty of things to play around with. You also don't nessisarily need to use them all.

No offence but your rock selection seems rather boring. Personally I would of probably added some branch rock, some rock with holes in it or some nice charachter other then just a solid round rock but im sure in time you will figure out more what type of scape you like.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2011)

I agree, I am going to look for different pieces of rock, though the selection isn't great right now. A lot of the LFS's get their shipments in at the same time and next one comes in at the end of the month so I have to wait a bit. Though I'm not to bothered about the look of the tank as that can always be played around with later, I'm more concerned about learning everything and preventing any serious problems.


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

Everyone starts off with a pile of rocks.
Dont worry,,

As you get some experence your taste will change.
Could be from your "pile0rocks" to maybe a bigger "pile0rocks". 
Maybe one 4" rock.

looking good btw!


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