# Frank, I want to be a Piranha Scientist.



## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Frank,

Do you have a course or something that I can do so I can be a Piranha scientist? Without doing field research? I am too old for that.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 08:45 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Frank,
> 
> Do you have a course or something that I can do so I can be a Piranha scientist? Without doing field research? *I am too old for that*





> Do you have a course or something that I can do so I can be a Piranha scientist?


 Super Nate has a good web site to learn stuff off of. Maybe you can secure or snag some internet credentials from there?









Won't find me outside of a boat either or land for that matter.









Try AT, I think they are hiring there. OR send Mike some money for the title worked for me LOL


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

You should have a list of recommended reading and a online test to make people "P-Fury" Piranha Scientist. You can even have cert. that you can print out.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 08:53 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You should have a list of recommended reading and a online test to make people "P-Fury" Piranha Scientist. You can even have cert. that you can print out.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Seriously. The test can be timed too so people can't cheat and the questions can be changed by a randomizer.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Already been tried in Piranha Science. Majority didn't want to do necessary search for answers even though most of it was at OPEFE.

Nice thought though.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Hey I tried. I like the recommended reading list...there is a lot of garbage out there!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Xenon Posted on May 13 2003, 09:10 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hey I tried. I like the recommended reading list...there is a lot of garbage out there!


 Try the references listed here at the bottom:

References

Tell me you will devote time to reading all these references as I did. And that is just one species!


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Sure, I will.

Can you forward me the emails?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 09:20 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sure, I will.
> 
> Can you forward me the emails?


 What emails?







Go to your library or local museum and secure copies or have them ordered for you.

A few you can find via PDF on the internet by title.


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Already been tried in Piranha Science. Majority didn't want to do necessary search for answers even though most of it was at OPEFE.
> 
> Nice thought though.


 That's because there was nothing but a "pat on the back" as a reward. We want money or free fish.







It's a greedy society we live in.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 09:20 PM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Sure, I will.
> >
> ...


 FINK, William L.- (2000) Electronic mail.

Miriam Zelditch - (2000) Electronic mail, Discussion of colors southern populations of Pygocentrus nattereri.

Bolin, Jason - (2001) Electronic mail, Discussion of Existence of Albino Piranhas

Fink, W. L., 1998 Electronic Mail.

Machado-Allison, Antonio., 2001 Electronic Mail.

Jégu, Michel 1998 Electronic Mail.

Petry, Paulo 1998, 2000, 2001 Electronic Mail.

and etc.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

:laugh: Those are personal communications about a topic


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Those are personal communications about a topic


 Hey hey hey!!! If they are private personal corr. then you cannot use them as sources and references.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Share the wealth with the rest of us.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I sent you an email. Get back to me.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 09:28 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (hastatus @ May 13 2003, 04:27 PM)
> :laugh: Those are personal communications about a topic
> ...


 sure I can, read the material on the page written as reported by them.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Serrapygo said:


> hastatus said:
> 
> 
> > Already been tried in Piranha Science. Majority didn't want to do necessary search for answers even though most of it was at OPEFE.
> ...


Exactly, not all of us can be retired like the 2 main people in this topic.....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> grosse gurke Posted on May 13 2003, 09:33 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (Serrapygo @ May 13 2003, 04:24 PM)
> QUOTE (hastatus @ May 13 2003, 09:08 PM)
> ...


Yah? even retired people use......gimme, gimme, gimme.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 09:28 PM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > QUOTE (hastatus @ May 13 2003, 04:27 PM)
> > :laugh: Those are personal communications about a topic
> ...


 Yeah, but that is considered a interp. If I cannot reference them to check on your studies, then they cannot be use as reference.









Its like going to a job interview and having people listed as reference and then telling your interviewer that they cannot call them because it is private. I don't know anymore.







I am not hip to the times. Stuck in the 90's.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > grosse gurke Posted on May 13 2003, 09:33 PM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > QUOTE (Serrapygo @ May 13 2003, 04:24 PM)
> > QUOTE (hastatus @ May 13 2003, 09:08 PM)
> ...


 gimme emails gimme Ps gimme attention.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 09:35 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (hastatus @ May 13 2003, 04:30 PM)
> QUOTE
> ...


I can tell







. Yes everything in science is interpretation. That is what makes the planets revolve around the sun.









*If I cannot reference them to check on your studies, then they cannot be use as reference. * Life is never fair is it?

Which is why I direct you to the actual written manuscripts that support the pc comments by Fink et al. All they did was simply tell me what they wrote and where to find it. I sought their permission and was granted that right to relate what was said via email. Personal or not, I don't have to release, nor will I because there are other matters of private nature that are not public domain. Go visit other web pages (science in nature) and look at references. You will find many listed as I have done. They too would look at you with a suspicious







eye if you asked to see their correspondence.

Besides, I'm retired, I don't need to give anyone anything if I don't want to.....so there.







I believe I've earned that right to decide.









Besides, I know nothing about you. You could be some TFH guy looking to publish a book w/o the investment of work involved in research. Did I say that?







Sorry Brian, j/k.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Here entertain yourself with this open thread. Haven't had anyone take it and it was the last test given:

Science test.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

> I can tell . Yes everything in science is interpretation. That is what makes the planets revolve around the sun.


 Frank, I cannot begin to tell you how wrong what you just said is. You might be known, but that doesn't mean your fact finding is correct. I might be unknown in the Piranha field, but does that mean I cannot verify a finding from a well known Piranha Scientist?



> If I cannot reference them to check on your studies, then they cannot be use as reference. Life is never fair is it?


 Frank... Frank... Frank... This has nothing to do with me personally. It is a reference on source materials. For a scientific research and document, if the reference cannot be verified, its credibility is lost.



> Which is why I direct you to the actual written manuscripts that support the pc comments by Fink et al. All they did was simply tell me what they wrote and where to find it. I sought their permission and was granted that right to relate what was said via email. Personal or not, I don't have to release, nor will I because there are other matters of private nature that are not public domain. Go visit other web pages (science in nature) and look at references. You will find many listed as I have done. They too would look at you with a suspicious eye if you asked to see their correspondence.


 The emails on scientific facts should not be personal... should it? You don't have to release it or do you have to source it. But if you choose both, isn't there something wrong with this picture? Well, look at it this way, you listed your emails correspondence as references. Now, if that email was about how to make cheese cake, there is no point for it to be used as a reference in a scientific document. Just because someone was an idiot about writing reference materials, it doesn't mean you should do the same. I was a Professor at Polytechnic U. where I taught CS and there are many students that add in reference materials just to look like they did more work then they really did. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING YOU ARE DOING THAT. But I am just pointing out the fact that you referring to them and then saying... It is private, you cannot see it... can be taken that way.



> Besides, I'm retired, I don't need to give anyone anything if I don't want to.....so there. I believe I've earned that right to decide.


 This is a matter of opinion, but hey, you don't have to give anyone the source materials you refer to. But if they are unobtainable, then why are you listing them? What is the point? To make the list look bigger and bring more credentials? I am not going to argue this point with you because you are well respect here and you have made up your mind about the way reference works.

This is just my 2 cents.

At the end, are you here to help the scientific community or for personal gain? So you did the hard work, what is wrong with people using you research and expanding upon it? What did you think you did with all those reference materials. You should give some help to TFH so they can actually publish something that you feel is worthy.

Again my 2 cents.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I can tell . Yes everything in science is interpretation. That is what makes the planets revolve around the sun.
> 
> Frank, I cannot begin to tell you how wrong what you just said is. *You might be known, but that doesn't mean your fact finding is correct.* I might be unknown in the Piranha field, but does that mean I cannot verify a finding from a well known Piranha Scientist?


Who said anything about facts being right or wrong? The use of the correspondence in reference to where it is placed in relation to the discussion of that particular species is there. In 2000 Fink and I discussed the Bolin fish, he stated via email that he never saw a fish retain a fish with that color in captivity breeding true. So what you are saying then, that didn't happen because I will not let you see the correspondence?
Now you have me curious on where this is headed.



> Frank... Frank... Frank... This has nothing to do with me personally. It is a reference on source materials. For a scientific research and document, if the reference cannot be verified, its credibility is lost.


Understand that, but I'm also willing to accept the loss based on one or two lines of communcation via email of a source that can verified via the main citations being dicussed in the main body of work. I have no problems living with that credibility or no credibility.



> The emails on scientific facts should not be personal... should it? You don't have to release it or do you have to source it. But if you choose both, isn't there something wrong with this picture? Well, look at it this way, you listed your emails correspondence as references. Now, if that email was about how to make cheese cake, there is no point for it to be used as a reference in a scientific document. Just because someone was an idiot about writing reference materials, it doesn't mean you should do the same. I was a Professor at Polytechnic U. where I taught CS and there are many students that add in reference materials just to look like they did more work then they really did. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING YOU ARE DOING THAT. But I am just pointing out the fact that you referring to them and then saying... It is private, you cannot see it... can be taken that way.


I completely understand your view on this, in fact I don't even argue against it. The OPEFE web site is a living document that I created for my pleasure and use for those interested in learning about piranas. Believe me, there is no gain in this for me, financial or otherwise nor fame. My view on OPEFE web site is that is like a diary of things I come across, learned or was taught by Fink et al. The web site itself is incomplete because not all the material is there. Indeed a few people who have come here and seen the unpublished material can appreciate how much is still missing from OPEFE web site. But that is not what we are discussing here. The emails in reference are for my use. Because the web site is viewed by public (at my discretion), does not mean that my email correspondence is part of the public domain. The important thing you are missing here is:

I never sought positions on this forum or anywhere else even this title of Piranha Scientiest. I'm sure Mike (Xenon) can elaborate on that title and what my feelings were on it when he created it. In fact, I never even asked to be made the bridge between piranha systematicians and the hobbyists. They themselves chose me. Is that bragging rights? No because it can also be a nice heavy weight around the neck.



> I was a Professor at Polytechnic U. where I taught CS and there are many students that add in reference materials just to look like they did more work then they really did.


Perhaps that is why I was chosen by those in the systematician field of ichthyology, because I went beyond having 2 or 3 piranas in the aquario, the legislature, creating the public exhibit of fishes, but also actively studied these critters from their perspective.



> RedShoal Posted on May 13 2003, 10:01 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> So you did the hard work, what is wrong with people using you research and expanding upon it? What did you think you did with all those reference materials. *You should give some help to TFH so they can actually publish something that you feel is worthy.*
> 
> Again my 2 cents.


Interesting you made that remark, but I'll let others comment on whether or not I "help" on their research or made any gain from it. I just don't wave a banner on what I do or don't do on my contributions to this field.



> At the end, are you here to help the scientific community or for personal gain?










Yah, I got real rich doing this for the last 30 some years. But your 2 cents was better spent. :smile:


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

RedShoal: Check your email box. Sent you 3 emails with information, one is 1.8 MB for starters.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Frank,

I cannot tell you anything you do not want to hear. But I treated you as a professional in your field where you cared about your work. But then again, once you start to tell me


> I have no problems living with that credibility or no credibility.


 and


> I never sought positions on this forum or anywhere else even this title of Piranha Scientiest.


 I just don't know what to say to you. Regression is part of progression, but only for certain instances. Maybe I was just taught a different type of reference than you. I don't know.

Few people brags about their work and contributions. But it can be seen when someone wants others to also pay their dues because they did so also. Here is a story... bear with me...

I once was working on a heuristic algorithm for a medical company. Once of the doctor I was interviewing told me that if he charged people the true value of his knowledge, it would be in the millions. He stated that he spend 50 years as a specialist in his field and that no one possess the knowledge he possessed in his field. So I ask him does he know computer programming? Car Mechanics? Flight? He stated no. I told him he can apply his theory of value in almost any specialized field, where people focus the majority of their life on something to become a professional or specialist. The value they get is the correct value when compared to his lack of understanding in those other specialized fields.

You investing you time and effort on something doesn't mean your only rewards are riches. But then again, my values are not that of the American way, where money equates to status.

So you are retired, great. I will take that as the definitive answer to all question I might have able this and all in regards. Have fun.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I cannot tell you anything you do not want to hear. But I treated you as a professional in your field where you cared about your work. But then again, once you start to tell me *
> I have no problems living with that credibility or no credibility.*
> and
> *I never sought positions on this forum or anywhere else even this title of Piranha Scientist. PS: thanks for letting me correct that type in scientiest LOL*
> I just don't know what to say to you.


Ummm goodbye? j/k redshoal. You take the internet to seriously, hopefully not life as well. Enjoy the rewards of being to turn on your computer and enjoy the people here, I do. A title is meaningless to me, because you can be President of the U.S. and still be a dog.









Trust me, I'm far richer in other ways that money will never buy. Indeed, I do share the wealth of knowledge via other means. I just simply don't have the explicit need to beat the drum in the way you think. Rest assured if you really wanted help. I would be there. I'm very comfortable in my skin. Have a good one, retired is always good. IF ever your in this neck of the woods, stop by for one of my well made margaritas and dead fish visit. :smile:


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Thanks for the invites.







I do feel I take Internet way too seriously. I have been in the academia and the scientific community for the past 50 years and it left some well dugged threads in me. Hard to let go of the systematic methods and procedures.

But that is why I took up the relaxing hobby of fish keeping.

Thanks again for the invites. Its well appreciated.

I even worked on some of those test quesitons.

2. Who was named the father of characin systemics?
Carl H. Eigenmann
3. Are fishes eyes capable of dilation (T or F) and if true, does it contract (Y or N)?
TRUE & TRUE
5. What is the outer surface of the eye composed of?
Brille (there real name is after this line.)
8. In piranas, name what the gill filaments are supported by.
Gill arch
9. What are cartilaginous or bony tubercles called?
Gill rakers

Need to do more.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Cool. Be sure to post in that thread. Xenon is looking to make that part of the knowledge base. So do have fun.

Getting some dinner. Catch you later. Will look at the completed work later.


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## wallago2111 (Mar 15, 2003)

I have known frank for many years and for one he has always been there to help me and my cust. He never just gave us the answer he directs us in the right direction so we learn. Red shoal should understand that because as a teacher it's your job to encouurage students to learn, not just give them the answers. It takes time and energy to be a expert in anything,nothing worth having come easy. I got the impression this was about trying to knock Frank down, more than you wanting to learn anything. I could be wrong, but I think the membership will see it this way also. If fFrank was in this for fame then he would, publish his works and charge for his expertise, I have never known him to do this. I don't understand how you feel this was not personal, it was directed at Frank and his findings etc. . I love this hobby and have been keeping and breeding fish for over 48 years and I applaud anyone who wants to learn , you just come off arrogant to me.
If you really want to learn, then do the work, there are no cliff notes.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

wallago2111 said:


> I have known frank for many years and for one he has always been there to help me and my cust. He never just gave us the answer he directs us in the right direction so we learn. Red shoal should understand that because as a teacher it's your job to encouurage students to learn, not just give them the answers. It takes time and energy to be a expert in anything,nothing worth having come easy. I got the impression this was about trying to knock Frank down, more than you wanting to learn anything. I could be wrong, but I think the membership will see it this way also. If fFrank was in this for fame then he would, publish his works and charge for his expertise, I have never known him to do this. I don't understand how you feel this was not personal, it was directed at Frank and his findings etc. . I love this hobby and have been keeping and breeding fish for over 48 years and I applaud anyone who wants to learn , you just come off arrogant to me.
> If you really want to learn, then do the work, there are no cliff notes.


 Lets play a little game called, "Read the freaken post."

I question Franks use of reference without any means of actually having the reader finding those references without him releasing it because it is his private email. Then when he states that he doesn't have to release it, I question the reason for him to even have them as references.

I asked for his SOURCE material that was in his reference, not his work... he already gave his work and his reference, I wanted to see the orig. source. THEREFORE, I was doing more work and moving the extra step.

Frank, I am sorry to say this is the type of person who leads others to believe that the more reference materials a work has the more credentials they have. They don't read the whole document, they just skim and they don't care about the work. They are the true leeches of societies and others. Never adding.

Wallago2111, you seem to be the type of person that don't check sources or references and just takes things as they come on. You I figure would not be a scientist or a professional by the way you blindly writes about something and not reading the whole thread.

Anyway, Frank don't need your protection.

Here is something arrogant, go and sell your fish and leave the real teaching to someone with credentials like Frank, fishmonger. Haha J/K

Seriously, read the thread before you post. Oh, and its also good to try to understand what was being written also.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Oops, you sell more than just fish.

Amphibians 
Arachnids 
Catfish 
Cichlids 
Lizards 
Miscellaneous Fish 
Piranha 
Snakes 
Supplies 
Turtles

I don't have an arrogant or elitist name for that. But take my word, if I know of one, I would use it.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Am I missing something here?


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

> I don't understand how you feel this was not personal, it was directed at Frank and his findings etc. .


This was not personal because I am not making my judgement of his work based on my personal feeling towards him. I didn't say he was wrong because he is a poopy head. Blab, blab, blab, read the thread.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

RedShoal said:


> > I don't understand how you feel this was not personal, it was directed at Frank and his findings etc. .
> 
> 
> This was not personal because I am not making my judgement of his work based on my personal feeling towards him. I didn't say he was wrong because he is a poopy head. Blab, blab, blab, read the thread.


 I read the thread and I still dont know what the f*ck you are talking about. What is your point here. I was hearing about references now suddenly you are attacking wallago, a personal friend of mine?


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

BTW, my job as a college professor is not to


> encouurage students to learn


 but to teach the student how to learn and expand upon an idea and not to take things for what they are. You high school text book is not 100% correct. Why do you think there are corrections with every new version/editions?


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> RedShoal said:
> 
> 
> > > I don't understand how you feel this was not personal, it was directed at Frank and his findings etc. .
> ...


 Friend or not, wallago2111 posted something bias without reading the thread and called me arrogant. Therefore I gave in to his view and play the part.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

If he read the post and understood what a reference was, would he really have posted,


> If you really want to learn, then do the work, there are no cliff notes.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

RedShoal. Your thread was obviously made to attack Franks credentials and try to tear him down. I tell you this, good luck....college professor or no college professor, you are mistaken. I dont give a rats ass what people say, Frank knows more about the scientific facts about these fish than anyone on these forums. So go ahead and try to tear him down like others have.....see how far you get.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> RedShoal. Your thread was obviously made to attack Franks credentials and try to tear him down. I tell you this, good luck....college professor or no college professor, you are mistaken. I dont give a rats ass what people say, Frank knows more about the scientific facts about these fish than anyone on these forums. So go ahead and try to tear him down like others have.....see how far you get.


 Oh great another pedestrian talking about sh*t. If Frank felt I was discrediting him, let him tell me. I am sure he understood how this even got this far.

Mike, if you don't understand what was written and you want to jump in to defend Frank's character, go ahead. I didn't question that. I questioned this referencing method.

I don't give a flying rats ass to what you have to write because this friend and he is a good man sh*t doesn't mean his findings is correctly without research data or reference to it.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

This thread was obviosuly made to maliciously attack his character in public. If you had such a burning question about his references it couldve been handled over PM or email....not in public where you are obviously trying to garner yourself, and this topic, the utmost attention. Your intentions here are clear.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Please, if you too want to post something of use in this thread instead of. HE IS MY FRIEND. I KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME. HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN CORRECT TO ME. Go ahead.

But once again. I was not questioning that. I questioned his reference methods and when he said the will not or does not have to release these references, I basically told him that basically makes the references BULLSHIT and that if the references becomes bullshit because it is vapor, what does that do to his research doc.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

RedShoal said:


> Please, if you too want to post something of use in this thread instead of. HE IS MY FRIEND. I KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME. HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN CORRECT TO ME. Go ahead.
> 
> But once again. I was not questioning that. I questioned his reference methods and when he said the will not or does not have to release these references, I basically told him that basically makes the references BULLSHIT and that if the references becomes bullshit because it is vapor, what does that do to his research doc.


 Then you should probably stop coming off as such a cocksucker when referencing your "friend".


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> This thread was obviosuly made to maliciously attack his character in public. If you had such a burning f*cking question about his references it couldve been handled over PM or email....not in public where you are obviously trying to garner yourself, and this topic, the utmost attention. Your intentions here are clear.


 Why keep everything private. I asked a question publicly and he stated it publicly. IT WAS NOT A QUESTION OF HIS CHARACTER. This is an attack on his referencing tech if you can call it that. Else go ahead pimp, throw your 2 cents in.

All I ask for was the emails he referenced to. He answered and I replied. This rest of the bullshit with you and your friend is just telling you to read the freaken post before jumping into the defense of NOTHING.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

In redshoals defense the job of a college professor is to do research mostly, and not teach students, most people dont know this, but I have spent alot of time helping out professors and we talked about it all. The whole point of college is to learn critical thinking skills and basic methods of problem solving the rest you can look up in a book, which is what you are expected to do

so no its not a professors job to make sure students learn,


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> Please, if you too want to post something of use in this thread instead of. HE IS MY FRIEND. I KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME. HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN CORRECT TO ME. Go ahead.


Oops, I mean you Mike and your Wallo friend's reply. That wasn't very clear. Frank is not my friend. I am saying that you and wallo only reply to this referencing this is HE IS MY FRIEND. I KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME. HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN CORRECT TO ME.

I am telling you that is BS. That is more than BS, that is you not reading the thread. Read the thread and tell me why the references should not have to be public for a scientific work? Now remember, Frank later told me that he was for his pleasure and it was not a scientific work. But that is when I drop the debate.

So, XENON, tell me why the references should not have to be public for a scientific work?


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> In redshoals defense the job of a college professor is to do research mostly, and not teach students, most people dont know this, but I have spent alot of time helping out professors and we talked about it all. The whole point of college is to learn critical thinking skills and basic methods of problem solving the rest you can look up in a book, which is what you are expected to do
> 
> so no its not a professors job to make sure students learn,


 Thank you.

It is a elementary and high school teacher's job.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

RedShoal said:


> So, XENON, tell me why the references should not have to be public for a scientific work?


 When did I ever say they should not be public for scientific work? The tone of this thread was condecention....The purpose the thread was made was to call doubt to our resident "piranha scientists" credentials. I am not going to argue with you as you obviously came from the "school of Nate" when it comes to debating on a public forum. I just think this couldve been handled in a private manner first, and not in a public condescending tone. Feel free to attack me, go nuts.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> RedShoal said:
> 
> 
> > So, XENON, tell me why the references should not have to be public for a scientific work?
> ...


 Thanks, I will.

So, you at the end, don't have much to say about the reference thing.

Okay, tell me this. If someone well known wrote an article on some big thing... like drinking water 5 times a day causes cancer and his reference is a long lost data sample that cannot be found and there is no archive of it. Is that article valid in the community?

Your response it seems is that if the author is well know, it must be true.

My response to frank was that since I cannot obtain... oh forget it... READ THE THREAD IDIOT. Get it over with. Don't just post to my replys without understanding this whole thread. Frank where are you?


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I have read the thread. I have understood your replies. I understand your point about the references. I DONT understand the manner in which you had to address the situation. So on my end....read MY f'n replies...I never said you were wrong. I said your a condescending ass that didnt approach the situation right.

peace.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

Xenon said:


> "school of Nate" when it comes to debating on a public forum.


 why the heck are you bringing me into this, perhaps its something you learn from engineering as RedShoal is an engineer


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I have read the thread. I have understood your replies. I understand your point about the references. I DONT understand the manner in which you had to address the situation. So on my end....read MY f'n replies...I never said you were wrong. I said your a condescending ass that didnt approach the situation right.
> 
> peace.


 I don't understand what you wrote, especially once you started to say I was discrediting Frank when I didn't. But hey, if it is that. Then okay.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Next time I will walk on my tippy toe and say please and thank you. Maybe I can get you a drink master.

Fucken asshole.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Hey wallago2111, stop reading and post a reply. I am curious to what you wanted to say.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Xenon said:


> I have read the thread. I have understood your replies. I understand your point about the references. I DONT understand the manner in which you had to address the situation. So on my end....read MY f'n replies...I never said you were wrong. I said your a condescending ass that didnt approach the situation right.
> 
> peace.


 Ok you didnt understand. Let me spell it out. YOU HAVE VALID POINTS ABOUT THE REFERENCES. But the way you went about addressing the issue in public, was condescending and obviously out to garner attention.


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## wallago2111 (Mar 15, 2003)

My post was erased by accident so I will repost. I have known Frank for many years and he has always helped me and my cust. without cost. He never would just give us the answer, but point us in the right direction, so we might learn, not just what we were looking for, but maybe even a little more. Red shoal You as a teacher should know better than anyone that people learn by being motivated, not by being handed the answers. I don't think you wanted to learn anything,I think your whole purpose was to try and knock down Franks credibilty. I may be wrong, but I think the membership will see it that way also. If Frank was after fame he would publish, and charge a fee for his expertise. I have never known frank to do that. I have been keeping and breeding fish for 48 years and I love this hobby,anyone trying to learn should be applauded but you just come off arrogant. If you really want to learn then do the WORK ther are no cliff notes here.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > RedShoal said:
> ...


 You don't sound like much of a college professor...do you treat your students like this? Using elitist phrases like oh bleep...another pedestrian trying to get in the middle of this. And to say that scientific information is unbiased seems a little naive...science as a field may be unbiased but human's are the ones who corrupt it. I'm in no way saying Frank is corrupting this field...I'm merely stating that your views are a bit skewed when it comes to text books being completely honest and truthful. This thread has become, if it did not begin so, about you boasting your ego and trying to attack any of those that try to oppose you rather then have an intellectual conversation where both sides listen. I would advise you to watch your tone and conduct as you tread through this community.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

By the way is this your real screen name or P. Cariba? Just wondering because obviously you arent here for the right reasons. And yes, get me a drink please.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > I have read the thread. I have understood your replies. I understand your point about the references. I DONT understand the manner in which you had to address the situation. So on my end....read MY f'n replies...I never said you were wrong. I said your a condescending ass that didnt approach the situation right.
> ...


 Okay okay chief. You caught me. I am out to garner attention. I am an old man and I need attention okay. Happy? Asswipe.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)




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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

wallago2111 said:


> My post was erased by accident so I will repost. I have known Frank for many years and he has always helped me and my cust. without cost. He never would just give us the answer, but point us in the right direction, so we might learn, not just what we were looking for, but maybe even a little more. Red shoal You as a teacher should know better than anyone that people learn by being motivated, not by being handed the answers. I don't think you wanted to learn anything,I think your whole purpose was to try and knock down Franks credibilty. I may be wrong, but I think the membership will see it that way also. If Frank was after fame he would publish, and charge a fee for his expertise. I have never known frank to do that. I have been keeping and breeding fish for 48 years and I love this hobby,anyone trying to learn should be applauded but you just come off arrogant. If you really want to learn then do the WORK ther are no cliff notes here.


 Its still here.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

I'm still waiting for your reply Mr. Professor


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

RedShoal said:


> Its still here.


That would be because he reposted it. I deleted it accidentally after I posted a post I wouldve regretted if I had let slide.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

> You don't sound like much of a college professor...do you treat your students like this? Using elitist phrases like oh bleep...another pedestrian trying to get in the middle of this.


I am retired and an educated man doesn't have to put up an air of elegance for the likes of anyone.



> And to say that scientific information is unbiased seems a little naive...science as a field may be unbiased but human's are the ones who corrupt it. I'm in no way saying Frank is corrupting this field...I'm merely stating that your views are a bit skewed when it comes to text books being completely honest and truthful.


I didn't say this. I said the opposite. I agree with you. That was one of my point for the reference thing.



> This thread has become, if it did not begin so, about you boasting your ego and trying to attack any of those that try to oppose you rather then have an intellectual conversation where both sides listen. I would advise you to watch your tone and conduct as you tread through this community.


I don't have to watch my tone and yes, it has become an attack once Wallo and Mike got into this with their comments.

I would advise you to re read the thread also.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

I would rephrase, I'm still waiting for your response you egotistical, self proclaimed know-it-all. I read the thread you condescending ass!


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Also, I am P. Cariba, this is my real screen name. That is why you don't see the other one on at all. Why? Checking the IPs on your Invision Power Board? What are you thinking of Mike? Banning me?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Nope. No ban. This is too fun to warrant a ban.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> I would rephrase, I'm still waiting for your response you egotistical, self proclaimed know-it-all


 Ohh... attack me, attack me. You are not posting anything that I would consider worthly of an "egotistical, self proclaimed know-it-all" response. Please post something like.

FRANK's SCIENTIFIC DATA WITHOUT SOURCES, SAMPLES, TECH, OR PROCEDURES IS CORRECT BECAUSE HE IS MY FRIEND.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Nope. No ban. This is too fun to warrant a ban.










Good to know you are fair.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

WALLO, POST SOMETHING. LURKER.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Source your credentials, where did you teach? where did you go to school? do you have a masters? what are your qualifications?


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Oh yeah, and I want to see some proof.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> Source your credentials, where did you teach? where did you go to school? do you have a masters? what are your qualifications?


 FUCKEN IDIOT. YOU DIDN'T READ THE THREAD DID YOU. I AM NOT EVEN GOING TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING AS STUPID AS THIS. wait... I am going it right now. You dickless wonder. Read the freaken thread. Don't skim.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> Oh yeah, and I want to see some proof.


 What would you consider as proof?


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

I did read the thread, you want sources backed by documents from Frank. Well, I want the same from you...I want to know where you taught, where you went to school, what your SAT score was...and I want documentation to prove it.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Hey, if I show proof I want flaming skulls as my thread count marker.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

i just want to say something i know im new here and dont have "pull"like the rest of you but i found piranhas to be a very intersting hobby and just ordered a [email protected]# load of books to start to become as u call a piranha scientest.maybe 5 to 10 years from now maybe i would of been one .but i dont know anymore seeing how somebody can criticize somebodies study.i just want to thank you for ruining this high or excitemint i had to learn about these fish that we all love.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> I did read the thread, you want sources backed by documents from Frank. Well, I want the same from you...I want to know where you taught, where you went to school, what your SAT score was...and I want documentation to prove it.


 HAHAHAHAHA SAT!!! They didn't use that back then when I attended school. HAHAHAHA
I respect your request and I WROTE WHERE I TAUGHT IN THE FUCKEN THREAD YOU IDIOT. YOU DID NOT READ THE THREAD. I AM NOT KIDDING. ITS IN THERE. FUCKEN ASSWIPE LIEING ABOUT READING THE THREAD.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

I'm not a moderator, I'm simply a pedestrian as you so elegantly put it. So I don't have the power to do so.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Show me what I want to see and you will have more credability to me...otherwise you are simply a pedestrian in this board.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Death in # said:


> i just want to say something i know im new here and dont have "pull"like the rest of you but i found piranhas to be a very intersting hobby and just ordered a [email protected]# load of books to start to become as u call a piranha scientest.maybe 5 to 10 years from now maybe i would of been one .but i dont know anymore seeing how somebody can criticize somebodies study.i just want to thank you for ruining this high or excitemint i had to learn about these fish that we all love.


 No one is criticizing anyones study. it started as me wanting some of the sources that I can only obtain from Frank and then I decided to become an elitist arrogant asshole to wallo, mike (xenon) 's friend.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> Show me what I want to see and you will have more credability to me...otherwise you are simply a pedestrian in this board.


 You want to see scan proof? What do you want to see? IDIOT. I asked you what do you want to see. Stop telling me you want to see it. Come to the school where I used to work and I will show you are and you can see my plaque. IDIOT. PM me for an appointment. I am retired so I am almost always free.


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## wallago2111 (Mar 15, 2003)

I read the thread and I am sorry but I wasn't commenting on the content,but the flavor. I still believe you were more intent on attacking Frank, then getting info, Frank e-mailed you plenty to get started. I do have a scientfic background so don't you blab away till you have the facts. By the way I will not revert to name calling, just shows a lack of class and culture,I'm sure you'll have no problem name calling ,you done a nice job so far. I am done with this whole thing your not worth the time.


----------



## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> rosecityrhom said:
> 
> 
> > I did read the thread, you want sources backed by documents from Frank. Well, I want the same from you...I want to know where you taught, where you went to school, what your SAT score was...and I want documentation to prove it.
> ...


 Be that as it may, you still have no proof of that being true...so you're still avoiding providing me with proof to what you say is true which is exactly what you want from Frank. You have no backing in this thread with me until you do so. Otherwise if you continue to avoid it you're simply a hypocrit to me.


----------



## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

wallago2111 said:


> I read the thread and I am sorry but I wasn't commenting on the content,but the flavor. I still believe you were more intent on attacking Frank, then getting info, Frank e-mailed you plenty to get started. I do have a scientfic background so don't you blab away till you have the facts. By the way I will not revert to name calling, just shows a lack of class and culture,I'm sure you'll have no problem name calling ,you done a nice job so far. I am done with this whole thing your not worth the time.


 Can't you have fun? Frankie says to relax. So I am by poking some fun. I am not here to make anyone feel sad or bad.


----------



## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> RedShoal said:
> 
> 
> > rosecityrhom said:
> ...


 Hey IDIOT, did you read my previous posts? I asked what you wanted to see and all you did was cry and scream that you "want to see proof." I am asking what kind of proof you take.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> wallago2111 said:
> 
> 
> > I read the thread and I am sorry but I wasn't commenting on the content,but the flavor. I still believe you were more intent on attacking Frank, then getting info, Frank e-mailed you plenty to get started. I do have a scientfic background so don't you blab away till you have the facts. By the way I will not revert to name calling, just shows a lack of class and culture,I'm sure you'll have no problem name calling ,you done a nice job so far. I am done with this whole thing your not worth the time.
> ...


 You're still avoiding my request, you are attacking Frank for having incomplete sources...your sources are incomplete as well since you have not provided evidence to back it up. So put your money where you mouth is and back it up like you want Frank to do.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> RedShoal said:
> 
> 
> > rosecityrhom said:
> ...


 My god, what do you want? An email from the department? Come to the fucken university and you will have full physical proof instead of this... blab blab blab, you don't have prood bullshit.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> rosecityrhom said:
> 
> 
> > RedShoal said:
> ...


 Sorry, I don't refresh the screen every 5 seconds.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Read the thread you IDIOT...I wrote what I wanted to see a long time ago. So I will not enlighten you here as you need to read the thread to do so.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> RedShoal said:
> 
> 
> > wallago2111 said:
> ...


 IDIOT!!! You are beating around the bush and just running in circles. I asked you what proof you wanted to so I can provide you with it, but you haven't wrote anything about what proof you take. You are an idiot without measure.

I did not ask frank for proof. I as him for the sources. Two different things. It would be another matter for me to ask frank for proof to validate that the emails are real and he didn't just type it up himself.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

wallago2111 said:


> I read the thread and I am sorry but I wasn't commenting on the content,but the flavor. I still believe you were more intent on attacking Frank, then getting info, Frank e-mailed you plenty to get started. I do have a scientfic background so don't you blab away till you have the facts. By the way I will not revert to name calling, just shows a lack of class and culture,I'm sure you'll have no problem name calling ,you done a nice job so far. I am done with this whole thing your not worth the time.


 Like RCR said to me, what are you and what proof you have. You sure don't sound or seem very professional. Anyone can type in a professional manner without curses or name calling. That don't mean sh*t.


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > Xenon said:
> ...


 You're an older man? Act like it. You're calling people "poopy head", "idiot", "fuckin asshole" and so on. Act your age, and before you tell ME to READ THE f*cking THREAD ASSHOLE I have read it. Every post, many of them multiple times.

What's your problem anyways? Who do you think you are? A retired professor? So what, that doesn't make you special, do you think we should bown down and kiss your ass just because you were an "educator"? Though that's probably debatable with your charming bedside manner. Please, if you're a retired professor than I'm a business tycoon.

Here, let me illustrate to you why people think you are an egotistical asshole (other than the obvious). Firstly, the title. You are implying that Frank has no credability, of course you deny that but it's as plain as day. Secondly, when people stand up for his character, that you ARE blatantly attacking, you call them names and tell them to read the thread etc. While your words did not say it outright the underlying meaning is clear to everyone. You took what could have been a legitimate concern and turned it into a personal grudge of some kind, which makes me wonder who you really are.

Two can play at your game though. Rose wants proof of your credentials, and so do I now (as I'm sure many others do). If you're who you say you are then you will know exactly what he is referring to, but you seem to be having problems understanding what exactly a retired professor would have as proof of his former employment. Hmm...perhaps college diplomas, transcripts, something from the university, there are any number of things you could produce. Use your apparently superior intellect and find what we request. An email from the university would be nice, though I would also request a way to verify the source because I don't trust you one bit.

You know, for someone with nothing to say you sure do talk an awful lot. Drop the Internet-thug attitude, I hope you enjoy the attention because you're getting quite a bit of it. Mission 1 accomplished, professor.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

rosecityrhom said:


> I did read the thread, you want sources backed by documents from Frank. Well, I want the same from you...I want to know where you taught, where you went to school, what your SAT score was...and I want documentation to prove it.
> Source your credentials, where did you teach? where did you go to school? do you have a masters? what are your qualifications?


 I said it twice...read the thread.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

I have read this thread.

Some points were brought out early on, got it.

Now it is just a bunch of garbage.

Why don't you all drop the conversation and find something else to do? Maybe post something on this PIRANHA site about piranha.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

wallago2111 said:


> I read the thread and I am sorry but I wasn't commenting on the content,but the flavor. I still believe you were more intent on attacking Frank, then getting info, Frank e-mailed you plenty to get started. I do have a scientfic background so don't you blab away till you have the facts. By the way I will not revert to name calling, just shows a lack of class and culture,I'm sure you'll have no problem name calling ,you done a nice job so far. I am done with this whole thing your not worth the time.


 Frank did email me, but that is not the question. Come on, prove yourself. You don't seem like a very scientific guy if you would just read some references in a document that you find interesting. You seem like a novice who is just plain lazy.


----------



## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> wallago2111 said:
> 
> 
> > I read the thread and I am sorry but I wasn't commenting on the content,but the flavor. I still believe you were more intent on attacking Frank, then getting info, Frank e-mailed you plenty to get started. I do have a scientfic background so don't you blab away till you have the facts. By the way I will not revert to name calling, just shows a lack of class and culture,I'm sure you'll have no problem name calling ,you done a nice job so far. I am done with this whole thing your not worth the time.
> ...


 You sound like a 14 year old kid, not a retired professor.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

Ron said:


> I have read this thread.
> 
> Some points were brought out early on, got it.
> 
> ...


 Ill second that


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## Bcollins111900 (Feb 3, 2003)

Put it this way, alot of this info on this website, predatoryfish, and so on is out of books or offline in search engines, point blank! Some people and not mentioning names, can be seem to be the freaking NERD of the world so to speak, but get this there are two types of smart people, and alot of the info given on this board is from book smart like stated in this topic, granted u claim and all to be an expert but can u tell me the info without looking in a book? Answer me that?


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

> You're an older man? Act like it. You're calling people "poopy head", "idiot", "fuckin asshole" and so on. Act your age, and before you tell ME to READ THE f*cking THREAD ASSHOLE I have read it. Every post, many of them multiple times.


Seriously, is the way someone types and acts an indication of their character or age. I will do so from now on as it seem like you people can't have much fun in a discussion when someone is poking at your emotional buttons.



> What's your problem anyways? Who do you think you are? A retired professor? So what, that doesn't make you special, do you think we should bown down and kiss your ass just because you were an "educator"? Though that's probably debatable with your charming bedside manner. Please, if you're a retired professor than I'm a business tycoon.


Are we debating my manners now? From a thread on becoming a Piranha Scientist to referencing to RedShoal's manners? Wow, its getting warped.



> Here, let me illustrate to you why people think you are an egotistical asshole (other than the obvious). Firstly, the title. You are implying that Frank has no credability, of course you deny that but it's as plain as day. Secondly, when people stand up for his character, that you ARE blatantly attacking, you call them names and tell them to read the thread etc. While your words did not say it outright the underlying meaning is clear to everyone. You took what could have been a legitimate concern and turned it into a personal grudge of some kind, which makes me wonder who you really are.


The title asks a question. "Frank, I want to be a Piranha Scientist." Its like students asking me how they can become an civil engineer. I think nothing of it. I am sure Frank don't think of it like I am questioning his credability. I think you are reading the thread with a certain emotion and placing it upon words that were wrote with another.
Yes, I called names because I never questioned Frank's character. I questioned this reply to referencing which at the end turns out to be for his enjoyment and not a sci doc.
I am not someone that was previously here if that is what you were implying.



> Two can play at your game though. Rose wants proof of your credentials, and so do I now (as I'm sure many others do). If you're who you say you are then you will know exactly what he is referring to, but you seem to be having problems understanding what exactly a retired professor would have as proof of his former employment. Hmm...perhaps college diplomas, transcripts, something from the university, there are any number of things you could produce. Use your apparently superior intellect and find what we request. An email from the university would be nice, though I would also request a way to verify the source because I don't trust you one bit.


There are many documents and I asked which one he wants. That was all. He refuse to answer me directly. You don't have to trust me, just like I don't trust you. But hey, pm me and we will set something up to ease your distrust of me.



> You know, for someone with nothing to say you sure do talk an awful lot. Drop the Internet-thug attitude, I hope you enjoy the attention because you're getting quite a bit of it. Mission 1 accomplished, professor.


Thank you. I aim to please because as I have stated. I like attention.


----------



## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Bcollins111900 said:


> Put it this way, alot of this info on this website, predatoryfish, and so on is out of books or offline in search engines, point blank! Some people and not mentioning names, can be seem to be the freaking NERD of the world so to speak, but get this there are two types of smart people, and alot of the info given on this board is from book smart like stated in this topic, granted u claim and all to be an expert but can u tell me the info without looking in a book? Answer me that?


 My question to you is "did you read the thread?" It was mainly about referencing and got warped into this.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> There are many documents and I asked which one he wants. That was all. He refuse to answer me directly. You don't have to trust me, just like I don't trust you. But hey, pm me and we will set something up to ease your distrust of me.


 I told you twice what I wanted, do you want me to say it a third? Read the thread.


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## Dovii Dan (Feb 20, 2003)

Xenon i have to ask you how do you let such a thread go on?.....this is plain garbage...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I GAVE THE TITLE "PIRANHA SCIENTIST" TO FRANK. If you wanna attack someone, attack me. Its just a damn title....


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Dovii Dan said:


> Xenon i have to ask you how do you let such a thread go on?.....this is plain garbage...


 I agree.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Here is the third time, I want documents to show where you taught, where you went to school, GPA since you're too old for SAT's, and any awards if you have any....these should give a good idea of your credibility which is what this thread turned into.


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## Bcollins111900 (Feb 3, 2003)

dude I am trying to defend you as well stating someone can fill up a whole page online of sources or a book full of sources, cause they stated they got if from another person and reworded it, but does not mean he knows this knowledge off the top of there head, like i said some people are just plain book smart and nothing else and let me ask you this
DID YOU READ THIS POST, LOL COULD'NT RESIST!


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I GAVE THE TITLE "PIRANHA SCIENTIST" TO FRANK. If you wanna attack someone, attack me. Its just a damn title....


 My god, I didn't ask why he got the title. I ask how I can become one. I am not even attacking him or his character. I was, for a lack of better word, attacking his referencing tech when he replied about it. But then he cleared it up with the fact that it was a doc he made for his enjoyment, which ended the debate. But Wallo has to post his 2 cents without reading the post and this is how it got started, since I felt like being an elitist.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Bcollins111900 said:


> dude I am trying to defend you as well stating someone can fill up a whole page online of sources or a book full of sources, cause they stated they got if from another person and reworded it, but does not mean he knows this knowledge off the top of there head, like i said some people are just plain book smart and nothing else and let me ask you this
> DID YOU READ THIS POST, LOL COULD'NT RESIST!


 Oops, I am sorry, all these posts are confusing after a while. I guess I was reading all these posts with a self defensive point of view.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

RedShoal said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > I GAVE THE TITLE "PIRANHA SCIENTIST" TO FRANK. If you wanna attack someone, attack me. Its just a damn title....
> ...


 good for you.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

I am glad that is settled.

Now, can we all call it a night and let this topic fade away. I believe the original question was answered.

All of the follow-on questions can be taken care of in a PM or an individual chat session.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> Bcollins111900 said:
> 
> 
> > dude I am trying to defend you as well stating someone can fill up a whole page online of sources or a book full of sources, cause they stated they got if from another person and reworded it, but does not mean he knows this knowledge off the top of there head, like i said some people are just plain book smart and nothing else and let me ask you this
> ...


 Which is what I said earlier, instead of constantly attacking those who disagree with you you could simply listen and rebute rather than attack with words like "Idiot". You asked why can't we have a good debate...the reason is in a "good" debate both sides listen instead of attack.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

Ok, I'm done. Have a nice night.


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

> Here is the third time, I want documents to show where you taught, where you went to school, GPA since you're too old for SAT's, and any awards if you have any....these should give a good idea of your credibility which is what this thread turned into.


RCR, the reason I question if you read the post was because I wrote where I taught in this thread. Secondly, I don't have my GPA anymore, but I have my Diplomas, if they will satisfy your needs. I also have rewards. But my concern was that even if I spend the money at Kinkos to scan these, you are going to question their legitimacy. So therefore I propose anyone who would like to meet me in person could do so. I am free. I am not that much of an asshole in person. I can also give you a tour of where I used to work so there is concrete proof.


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

> Seriously, is the way someone types and acts an indication of their character or age. I will do so from now on as it seem like you people can't have much fun in a discussion when someone is poking at your emotional buttons.


Emotional buttons? Well if calling someone IDIOT over and over isn't personal then I don't know what is. Oh wait that's right, you didn't start it no of course not. Yes the way someone types and acts IS an indication of their character. When you talk to someone you learn about their character, the Internet is sort of a bastardized conversation but you still learn a lot about people. You've taught me plenty about what kind of person you are. Age? Well I would hope that at your alleged age (post-retirement) people would not be questioning whether or not you are an older man or some punk kid.



> Are we debating my manners now? From a thread on becoming a Piranha Scientist to referencing to RedShoal's manners? Wow, its getting warped.


Bedside manners refers to the way in which you treat people. So far you have treated everyone here like trash. No doubt you will try to justify it, but the fact of the matter is there is no justification for your conduct. The only thing that is getting warped is how you twist peoples' words.



> The title asks a question. "Frank, I want to be a Piranha Scientist." Its like students asking me how they can become an civil engineer. I think nothing of it. I am sure Frank don't think of it like I am questioning his credability. I think you are reading the thread with a certain emotion and placing it upon words that were wrote with another.


No, emotion has nothing to do with it. Your question was not akin to students asking how to be a civil engineer, it was a passive-aggressive comment implying his credability is lacking because he won't forward you some emails. Emails which I do believe he made reference to their contents. READ THE THREAD. :







:



> Yes, I called names because I never questioned Frank's character. I questioned this reply to referencing which at the end turns out to be for his enjoyment and not a sci doc.
> I am not someone that was previously here if that is what you were implying.


No not directly you didn't, though everything you've posted more than hints at it. That is also not what I was implying, just that you appear to have an alterior motive.



> There are many documents and I asked which one he wants. That was all. He refuse to answer me directly. You don't have to trust me, just like I don't trust you. But hey, pm me and we will set something up to ease your distrust of me.


Why not just scan some of them in and post them for us? I'm not going to waste my time tracking down your alleged credentials.



> Thank you. I aim to please because as I have stated. I like attention.


That has been made painfully obvious.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

ok,, and the topic is fading,,,, fading,,,

getting harder to see...

now you are sleeping

the topic is gone...

Thank God


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## Bcollins111900 (Feb 3, 2003)

LOCK THIS DAMN TOPIC ALREADY!


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## RedShoal (May 3, 2003)

Okay, I guess this game has gone far enough. But if anyone want to actually meet me and obtain proof of my credentials for this board, please feel free to PM me and we will meet. Have fun everyone.


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## wallago2111 (Mar 15, 2003)

I said it already. You sound like a broken record,I don't care what credentials you have, from the way you conduct yourself they were wasted on you. If you were my professor I would have transfered to a different class because you are to self centered to be a good professor. I hope you don't think anyones impressed. If being scientfic means being you, then I am in agreement with your assesment of me, I am not scientific. Thank You







your a joke.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

RedShoal said:


> > Here is the third time, I want documents to show where you taught, where you went to school, GPA since you're too old for SAT's, and any awards if you have any....these should give a good idea of your credibility which is what this thread turned into.
> 
> 
> RCR, the reason I question if you read the post was because I wrote where I taught in this thread. Secondly, I don't have my GPA anymore, but I have my Diplomas, if they will satisfy your needs. I also have rewards. But my concern was that even if I spend the money at Kinkos to scan these, you are going to question their legitimacy. So therefore I propose anyone who would like to meet me in person could do so. I am free. I am not that much of an asshole in person. I can also give you a tour of where I used to work so there is concrete proof.


 I appreciate this comment, simply put its more civil then I've seen from you so far...this is not an attack so do not respond in one please. My whole point was to treat me with the respect that all people deserve...we don't deserve to be called pedestrians and idiots...we deserve to be heard and I honestly felt you had closed down the walls of communication by using such words.


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Bcollins111900 said:


> dude I am trying to defend you as well stating someone can fill up a whole page online of sources or a book full of sources, cause they stated they got if from another person and reworded it, but does not mean he knows this knowledge off the top of there head, like i said some people are just plain book smart and nothing else and let me ask you this
> DID YOU READ THIS POST, LOL COULD'NT RESIST!


 BCollins, you have no idea what you're talking about. You've also just described what our good friend the professor used to do, read books and write things based on and supported by those books. It's called research. But in Frank's case that is only part of it, but you obviously don't really know what he's done nore have you bothered to find out.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

This has gone far enough. Everyones participation in this thread is appreciated.


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