# GH & KH



## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

What should my reading be for GH & KH. Thanks.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Any kH reading above 100 ppm is sufficient to stabilize pH in a normally stocked/fed tank. Piranhas ideally would like a gH around 80 ppm but all water supplies vary. The higher the number the harder the water is. gH is very imortant though for the skeletal structure of fish. If your water is harder i would not mees with it. Piranha, if acclimated properly won't have any issues.


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks Jerry, I did a KH and its 35.8 and when I do the GH I add the first drop and it doesn't turn orange it stays clear. What can I do?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

alcas74 said:


> Thanks Jerry, I did a KH and its 35.8 and when I do the GH I add the first drop and it doesn't turn orange it stays clear. What can I do?


I believe your instructions for the gH says to add 1 drop at a time until such color change. Multiply 17.9 times the amount of drops to get your ppm amount. If your kH is indeed 35.8 ppm you will have a difficult time having a pygo group of any kind unless you add some type of buffer. If your tap water is the same then you can either add a substrate that contains sodium carbonates or you can have a thin substrate bed of arragonate crushed coral or add some limestones. As a temporary fix if your pH is very low you can add a single tablespoon of Arm & Hammer baking soda for every 50 gallons of water to raise it a bit in a safe manner. If your tap water has a much higher kH than all you need is to increase water changes. I assume you have well water and not municipal water.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

alcas74 said:


> What should my reading be for GH & KH. Thanks.


I would not be too concerned about the KH nor GH levels, if pH is still in an acceptable level.
So what is your pH and please provide us with the parameters pH/KH of your tap water.

Often when baking soda (NaHCO3, sodium bicarbonate) is added, yes the KH is raised, but also pH goes up and it goes up very easily to pH 8.0. It is therefore a good practise to add simultaneusly an acid buffer too (NaHCO3 is a basic buffer) to keep the pH within 6.5-7.0.

Sodium carbonate (Na2CO3), on the other hand is stronger base and raises pH easily over 8.0.

Harry


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks for the extra help Harry, My whole issue is that my supers have lost all their red. Its been about a month. They go from pale white to dark. So I'm trouble shooting. Tap water ph is close to 8 and kh is only 35.8. I can't get a gh reading because the first drop is supposed to change to orange and mine stays clear. I think they might have change my water or sometime. My tank right now reads.
Nitrate 10-20ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Ammonia 0ppm
Ph 6.8
Kh 53.7
Gh is unknown.
Tank temp is 79-81
Diet includes everything alot of freeze dried shrimp.
And they eat like animals


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

Another thing I was thinking was maybe they're spawning. 4 are dark and the largest one is alittle pale with alittle red. They are also constantly nipping and once in a while you see them trying to move the gravel but the rocks are alittle big for their mouths. I've never heard of supers breeding in captivity. Could they just be going threw the process?
Here are some pics.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

I do not see any cause for trouble in your water parameters. Your pH actually very good (6.8).

Those reds do look a little light, but they are OK IMO.
But to spawn, I think they are too young for that.

Harry


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Since you are having problems reading gH I need to ask you if you have a home water softener system ???


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

No, just water filters. I never had a problem before, maybe the city change something in the water. I had some old coral that I crushed and added to my tank. I'm baffled why my Ps lost their color.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

I am sort of baffled on how you have a 8.0 pH out of tap, a kH of only 53.7 ppm, plus you added some crushed coral, and maintain a pH of 6.8 in the tank. These numbers do not make sense. You need to confirm your test results with another test kit imo. Take a water sample to your lfs. Actually take 2 samples, one from tank and one from tap. gH is actually important to know because gH is critical to the skeletal structure of the fish. Do the gH test kit exactly like you did the kH test. Keep adding drops until it changes color and multiply the amount of drops by 17.9 It may very well be possible that you have a very high gH with low kH. This will explain the high pH in the tap but your tank being 6.8 due to the lack of buffers. Maybe you need to add more crushed coral to stabilize your pH. I like the aragonate type. You need to be careful with water changes because the difference between your tap and your tank is enough to stress them big time.


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

The 6.8 was after a water change and I did a Ph adjustment. I took my water to Pedro today so hopefully he can help.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Yes, the explanation for high tap water pH with low KH goes like follows.

It is true that high KH (which means high concentration of bicarbonate ions) means a high pH, if no acid buffer is used. A mix of bicarbonate ions and sulphate ions, however, depending on proportions will commonly make pH of 6.5-7.0, again if no other buffers are used.

Municipal water plants usually raise the pH in order to extend the life of pipes (prevents corrosion). Also in order to kill bacteria, chlorine is used. Chlorine gas on the other hand is not very permanent in the water, so a combination of chlorine and ammonium is used. This will produce chloramine, which is quite permanent.

Now, if tap water has a low KH, it means that pH adjustment is easy to do. It is commonly done by adding ammonium and chlorine. The result is a low KH (<2) and high pH (8.0) tap water.

In aquariums, however, the chloramine is often neutralized with conditioners releasing ammonium. And nitrification process changes ammonium into nitrates. This will lower the pH very easily, because the KH was low already.

Now adding acid buffer into this aquarium will set the pH low permanently, which is exactly what a Piranha keeper wants to do.

Harry


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

Quick update, I took both tap and tank water to Pedro today. Bong and myself retested my Ph and ammonia twice and water is PERFECT.
Tap Ph is 7.11 Tank Ph was 7.02
Ammonia is 0 ppm

I just did a test strip and here are the reading:
Nitrate 30ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
GH 200ppm
KH 120ppm
Ammomia 0ppm
Ph 7.0

Right now we're trouble shooting. I did a water change tonite and I tried something alittle different. I have a feeling I wasn't adding enough water conditioner during water changes. I noticed the fish flashing shortly after water changes. Keep ur fingers crossed.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

alcas74 said:


> Tap Ph is 7.11 Tank Ph was 7.02 ...


So your original test gave erraneous readings. Tap water pH does not vary so much.

Harry


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## AE Aquatics (Alex) (Jan 15, 2006)

harrykaa said:


> Tap Ph is 7.11 Tank Ph was 7.02 ...


So your original test gave erraneous readings. Tap water pH does not vary so much.

Harry
[/quote]
First reading was wrong


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