# NM to kelvin......?



## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

Im studying for my lab practicum in marine bio., I just went over our results of one of the labs we did on photosynthetic pigments in some marsh plants we gathered off campus.

According to our readings (6 groups of 4 conducting seperate tests with the smal blanks on individual spectorphotometers, then averaged the class results and graphed them for a more accurate reading) a spectophotmeter and some curves, chlorophyll shows peak absorbtion between 450-475 nm and theres another note worthy spike from 625-650 nm.....the other pigments help a bit where chlorophyll troughs....so im wondering if theres a constant correlation between the NM and color temp? Im assuming there is but its just not normally given, if not.... does the correlation vary with different bulbsie, type, wattage)? THe reason i ask is ild like to get a few different bulbs that target differnt NM ranges rather than a set of "general" full spectrum bulbs or simply a 6500 or 6700 k. I say this because it seems there are large sections where certain wavelengths are simply not picked up on (in signifigant amounts) by any of the photosynthetic pigments, leading me to belive that if i target the right wave lengths i could get optimal growth.....or would that require a really nice CO2 system to keep up with the growth....if im not spewing garbage and this ever pans out to something. Also.....how would mercury vapor do on aquatic plants....it works wonders on the " land plants". I know this is charlie brown teacher talk for most but am really getting excited about my planted tank.....i am heavy into reef keeping and even take courses for it and a raise at work...and for tranferrable credits...







....ive read up and am gathering some info but was hoping someone here is psychotically into plants and may have already know of the color temp/NM correlation :rock:


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

BUMP.....


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Generally speaking, as far as hobbyists are concerned, lights are lights. People don't give an awful lot of though to light temperature because almost all wide spectrum bulbs will work equally well. The actual science of the matter gets into nutrients and CO2 injection which are where you can really get scientific in order to get the best growth levels. So if you got the spectrum down just perfect, you probably wouldn't see any better growth than the next person without CO2 since CO2 would be your growth limiting factor. You can keep researching, but the more important factors than color temp are your nutrient mixes (macro and micro nutrients) and CO2 levels in the tank.


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Generally speaking, as far as hobbyists are concerned, lights are lights. People don't give an awful lot of though to light temperature because almost all wide spectrum bulbs will work equally well. The actual science of the matter gets into nutrients and CO2 injection which are where you can really get scientific in order to get the best growth levels. So if you got the spectrum down just perfect, you probably wouldn't see any better growth than the next person without CO2 since CO2 would be your growth limiting factor. You can keep researching, but the more important factors than color temp are your nutrient mixes (macro and micro nutrients) and CO2 levels in the tank.
> [snapback]916740[/snapback]​


Kewl beans!
Im a bit intimidated by chem.....but i guess that comes with the tanks ive chosen to explore. Do you think cutting WPG back to like 2-3 wpg would decrease the need for CO2? I wanted to avoid the CO2 system (im into reefing and wanted something far more simple....







) but if i can get away with the lil DYI yeast ones.....


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

You know, I set up my CO2 system and I was kind of shocked to be honest. I expected it to be really difficult (it's not) and I expected that the yeast method wouldn't be very effective (it is). I've got the bubbles going into my powerhead and I took a reading for CO2 today (well not actually for CO2, you take a reading for ph and another reading for hardness to figure out your CO2 levels using this chart) and my CO2 level is right in the optimal range.

If you went 2 wpg and kept some easy plants like cryptocornes, anubias, vallisneria and the like you shouldn't need CO2 if you're really intimidated about using it.


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

Sounds good....Im a programmed water testing zombie at work......we do em for $1.00 and 3 for a full spectrum test on reefs...so thanks to everyone and thier mom i do water tests for everything in my sleep. I THink im going to try the DIY method as you have. Well see what kind of deals i can strike at work....Ill post with ALL my equiptment before i set up and do one final opinion/error check before i commit to cycling the tank.







elTwitcho.

Nick


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Scolopendra said:


> THe reason i ask is ild like to get a few different bulbs that target differnt NM ranges rather than a set of "general" full spectrum bulbs or simply a 6500 or 6700 k. I say this because it seems there are large sections where certain wavelengths are simply not picked up on (in signifigant amounts) by any of the photosynthetic pigments, leading me to belive that if i target the right wave lengths i could get optimal growth...
> [snapback]916029[/snapback]​


Hi Scolopendra,

I would like to answer your question about the wavelengths and photosynthesis and applying this to water plants.

What you say about photosynthesis of green chlorophyl is of course true in itself. This can be measured with a spectrometer. I myself am a doctor in Philosophy from Finnish (Helsinki) University and I have done this kind of experiments.

The fact that must be remembered here though is as follows:
Green chlorophyl absorbs (utilizes) blue (450-475 nm) and red (625-650 nm) light. It emits (does not utilize) green light as much.
But using blue-red bulbs is not going to succeed because there are other pigments also involved with photosynthesis. One particularly important pigment emits red light! There are red and brown leaved plants you see. Also different wavelengths penetrate differently in water.
The other problem comes with the bulbs. In Finland at least one can by so called greenhouse bulbs. They were some years ago recommended for aquariums also. The bulbs were fluorescent bulbs. Actually they did not emit more blue nor red light, but the green ligth was more suppressed. In practise these were harmful to the plants and they also distorted the looks of an aquarium.

If you look the spectometer curve of a plant leaf, you will notice that absorption of green ligth is not zero, it is less than that of red or blue, but not zero.

So it is true what elTwitcho says: all wide spectrum bulbs will work. I might bet they are the only ones.

By the way please note that fishes usually produce enough carbon dioxice for the plants; unless you have massive amount of plants and only a few small fishes if any. Also carbon dioxide will assimilate into water from the room air via the water surface. Compare the abundance of fishes vs plants in your aquarium and on the other hand in nature!

Regards,


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

Thanks for the info!
What about mercury vapor bulbs? I can get those for around $15 and give off awesome PAR for my chameleons plants. Would those be practical if I could find a good fixture?


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

you get college credits for knowing how to keep a reef, were do you go. im setting up my 29 reef right now for softies and lps and taht would be awesome if i can take it to college with me in a couple years and get credit and money for knowing about it. what do you keep in your nano reefs??


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

Im a lab tech for the bio division @ solano community college...sounds fancy but i dont do anything but prep carts with supplies for lab courses for students like me. I dont get credits for just knowing, the school has 2 75 fresh and a 75 reef....very nice setup but they let it go to crap....I am in pretty good with the dean so he let me do an independant study course, where i get to choose a hands on project and write a paper on it. I chose to refurbish the reef....big mistake. THere is no hope for thier aiptasia infest......I injected over 280 by hand and didnt make a dent in the population....so im just getting the eqiptment running and perfecting the water....and throwing in some fish for 3 units....


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Scolopendra said:


> What about mercury vapor bulbs? I can get those for around $15 and give off awesome PAR for my chameleons plants. Would those be practical if I could find a good fixture?
> [snapback]917925[/snapback]​


Hi Scolopendra,

I admit I have no experience of mercury vapor bulbs for the aquarium use.
But I have used them (500 W bulbs) for attracting and capturing insects.

I think the light they emit could be dangerous to fishes at least. In fact they emit quite an amount of ultraviolet light (invisible to Human eye, but visible to the insects) which is harmfull to retina of Human eye (I suspect the same applies to fishes also).
And an other thing is that they also emit a lot of infra red light (also invisible), which means they produce heat.

Regards,


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

harrykaa said:


> Scolopendra said:
> 
> 
> > What about mercury vapor bulbs? I can get those for around $15 and give off awesome PAR for my chameleons plants. Would those be practical if I could find a good fixture?
> ...


 I agree they would cause damage if i took some acid and then stared at it for afew hours...







j/k..but seriously, i use them on my chameleon and insect enclosures for the plant growth, the chameleons ive had never suffered any inability to catch bugs with thier tounges...which would certainly be hard to perform with any damage to thier eye. The uv could potentially be too much for the animals skin and burn it if it's native waters were farther from the equator. Im not sure but im fairfly sure that p range spans a good distance toward near the equator where uv is pretty high. The heat is the big issue imo, i think if i raise it off the water enough i should be fine. _But my original _concern would be the effects on the plants and also the P.
Anyone here have metal halides (or seen them)? there are just as bright as the MV but have a "whiter" (to the eye) look due to the generally higher color temp (to an extent, once you get much above 10,000K it starts to cast a blue haze)....Do you think that would be too much for a P (if youve seen the halides or MV)? I would rather use the mercury vapor or HPS bulbs for both plant growth and price......i already have 2 MV pendants with ballasts.


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