# Work out buffs



## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

17-bol. 
Some new sh*t (at least I think its new) I've been using lately. Well only went through 2 bottles, just started it 2 months ago actually Friend turned me on to, doesn't leave me feeling wired, stacks well and the maintains are great for being legal. Anyone else try it discuss.


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

working out is for p*ssy"women", real men do manual labor,, thats there work out.. and it pays not the other way around,,, um f*cking buff and i ve never been in a gym once just manual labor for 6 years season in season out...

i aint got time to fruit it up in a Gym


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

no disrespect cue but you are far from buff. and not everyone does manual labour and actually really enjoy lifting, so if you wanna be all ethug and call me and everyone else fruits and pussies id suggest you think twice about the fact that alot of the lifters here would criple your labour intensive lobster ass.

and Back on topic never heard of 17 bol. is it a nitro/creatine drink? any links?


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

your still a p*ssy corey,,,, maybe some other E THUG members could cripple me but if i knew you i would go toe to toe in a heart beat mang you remind me of a spoiled little brat that gets everything he wants because hes a single child and is still sucking his mamas titty i don't respect your kind man...maybe to be heavy into a sport or if your a wrestler its cool to be buff hell the bigger you are the more you make,, but to be a nerdy little red headed boy trying to look like the big guys cuz mommy and daddy payed your gym fair,,, thats just gay cor my bro


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

corey still thinking of something catchy to say bro,,? ha ha ha,, your tin foil man


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

cue you must have be confused, im far from little im not a lonely child and my hair is brown, ive paid for every single month at the gym with my own money. 
the fact that you turn to such outrageous untruths when trying to save face just shows how completely and undisputedly youve dug yourself a hole here man. 
i know your type though, fat retarded cross eyed alcoholic that comes on here trying to be someone else, when the fact that the only thing that would ever spread its legs for you is your beloved goat. and you say im trying to look big? why dont you show us your massive flabby frame? see whose the bigger man.


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

I've heard of 17 bol but never tried it. From what I know, Corey, it is a test booster. I don't use any test booster besides tribulus sometimes, and that doesn't have a huge effect. I stick to NO Xplode, Cellmass, Nitrix, and tons of protein powder.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

mori0174 said:


> I've heard of 17 bol but never tried it. From what I know, Corey, it is a test booster. I don't use any test booster besides tribulus sometimes, and that doesn't have a huge effect. I stick to NO Xplode, Cellmass, Nitrix, and tons of protein powder.


ok, im just getting a bit tired of nano vapor and im scoping for another brand.


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

C0Rey said:


> I've heard of 17 bol but never tried it. From what I know, Corey, it is a test booster. I don't use any test booster besides tribulus sometimes, and that doesn't have a huge effect. I stick to NO Xplode, Cellmass, Nitrix, and tons of protein powder.


ok, im just getting a bit tired of nano vapor and im scoping for another brand.
[/quote]

nano vapor tastes like crap. I know you love NO Xplode!


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

mori0174 said:


> I've heard of 17 bol but never tried it. From what I know, Corey, it is a test booster. I don't use any test booster besides tribulus sometimes, and that doesn't have a huge effect. I stick to NO Xplode, Cellmass, Nitrix, and tons of protein powder.


ok, im just getting a bit tired of nano vapor and im scoping for another brand.
[/quote]

nano vapor tastes like crap. I know you love NO Xplode!
[/quote]

indeed but after using it for long time it started messing with my stomach. ( not shure if it was the cell mass or the no explode but i decided to give it a rest, shame cause i think that the best combo out there)


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

C0Rey said:


> cue you must have be confused, im far from little im not a lonely child and my hair is brown, ive paid for every single month at the gym with my own money.
> the fact that you turn to such outrageous untruths when trying to save face just shows how completely and undisputedly youve dug yourself a hole here man.
> i know your type though, fat retarded cross eyed alcoholic that comes on here trying to be someone else, when the fact that the only thing that would ever spread its legs for you is your beloved goat. and you say im trying to look big? why dont you show us your massive flabby frame? see whose the bigger man.


Quoted for awesomeness.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

C0Rey said:


> no disrespect cue but you are far from buff. and not everyone does manual labour and actually really enjoy lifting, so if you wanna be all ethug and call me and everyone else fruits and pussies id suggest you think twice about the fact that alot of the lifters here would criple your labour intensive lobster ass.
> 
> and Back on topic never heard of 17 bol. is it a nitro/creatine drink? any links?


Hahaha...I agree brotha...I havent been in the gym for about 3 years and it shows but there is a huge difference between man. labor and being in the gym. 
I loved the gym and miss it.

Damn time isnt there being married and working 55-60 hours a week and coaching 3 soccer teams 8 to 10 hours a week.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

notaverage said:


> no disrespect cue but you are far from buff. and not everyone does manual labour and actually really enjoy lifting, so if you wanna be all ethug and call me and everyone else fruits and pussies id suggest you think twice about the fact that alot of the lifters here would criple your labour intensive lobster ass.
> 
> and Back on topic never heard of 17 bol. is it a nitro/creatine drink? any links?


Hahaha...I agree brotha...I havent been in the gym for about 3 years and it shows but there is a huge difference between man. labor and being in the gym. 
I loved the gym and miss it.

Damn time isnt there being married and working 55-60 hours a week and coaching 3 soccer teams 8 to 10 hours a week.
[/quote]

nobody has time to work out, just need to get your priorities straight, cut out some of the other activities and maybe be a bit more selfish.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

C0Rey said:


> nobody has time to work out, just need to get your priorities straight, cut out some of the other activities and maybe be a bit more selfish.


good advice. 
i need to start going to the gym. i always start, then go for like a month, see no results, and get tired of it. 
i just gotta stop making excuses and go, because results will come im told, i just loose interest sitting there running for like half hour, or biking or whatever.
but i dont want to be old with health problems. not that im grossly overweight but i could stand to loose some lbs. 
/ends rant.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

Nick G said:


> nobody has time to work out, just need to get your priorities straight, cut out some of the other activities and maybe be a bit more selfish.


good advice. 
i need to start going to the gym. i always start, then go for like a month, see no results, and get tired of it. 
i just gotta stop making excuses and go, because results will come im told, i just loose interest sitting there running for like half hour, or biking or whatever.
but i dont want to be old with health problems. not that im grossly overweight but i could stand to loose some lbs. 
/ends rant.
[/quote]
get some one to put up a lifting prog. for you. go on a forum or sumtn. its important to get a good rutine going.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

can you recommend a good one?


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

i work part time as a PT so yeah... whats your goals and how many times do you plan to lift per week?


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

there is a gym down the street from my house, so im thinking i can go there 3-4 times per week... i jsut gotta stop in and find out their schedule. i just moved in around here. 
my goal is just to trim down a bit, i am big boned and have been told i could turn a lot of my mass into muscle in a year or so if i put my mind to it, but im not looking to be anything like a body builder, just less flabby, get rid of my gut. and if i get into it, maybe ill go from there. 
i mean, the thing is, my girl is (almost) an RD, so i eat fairly well, its just my lack of exercise that i think is standing in the way of trimming down.


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## KrBjostad (Jun 21, 2008)

cueball said:


> working out is for p*ssy"women", real men do manual labor,, thats there work out.. and it pays not the other way around,,, um f*cking buff and i ve never been in a gym once just manual labor for 6 years season in season out...
> 
> i aint got time to fruit it up in a Gym


good job on your less than high school education


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

well id do a 4 way split.

how you do the split is not vital but i would divide it like this:

day 1 chest - bicpes

day 2 legs - stomach ( guerilla cardio )

day 3 shoudlers - triceps

day 4 back - biceps ( maybe not as as much biceps and some stomach here too)

the split is not the key factor it can be done in a variety of ways that will work well. the important thing is to work the entire body and not have two days straight were you use the same muscles.

reps when you start can be 12 x3 and then after maybe 2 weeks go down to 10 then 8x3

the thing is to be consistant, write down your lifts and always try to beat your last performance.

eat fast carbs right after the session and lots of protein within 20-30 min ( from 30 -90 grams )

after a while you should completely change the split to decrease stagnation. ( maybe 4-5 months depending on when you feel it stops you from progressing )

go on youtube and look at different execises there are tons but some i would really recomend is

Deadlifts ( back), squats ( legs ) and dumbell chest press and shoulderpress ( chest and shoulders )


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

KrBjostad said:


> good job on your less than high school education


real men dont need school


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

> id suggest you think twice about the fact that alot of the lifters here would criple your labour intensive lobster ass.


lol C0rey that was great!

Anyways I have never heard of this stuff but I will definitely look it up now. If its legal it can't be all that bad for you if you follow it's dosing recommendations according. I'll check it out.

I have seen SO many products on the market now, its ridiculous! Each one claiming something different. The market is insanely huge for this stuff.

What has worked the best for me though in the past is my EAS Whey (chocolate all the mo fuggin way baby!) 
AND n.o xplode. I was skeptical of N.O at first but I tried it and it's great stuff.


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## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

Figuring out a workout schedule is proving tricky for me because of work. I work an afters shift, day shift, afters, days, afters, days then have 3 days off. Afters are 12.30pm untill 9.15pm, days are 7.15 untill 3.15. And when I come off days I'm just too tired to do anything! Plus I'm constantly on the move so fitting in the right foods is hard too.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

thanks corey, so wait, you decrease the amount of reps? i would think increasing is better. do i add more weight as i decrease?


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## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

I bought that NO Xplode a while back, tastes bloody disgusting.
Am I right in thinking you can't really go wrong with most things that are 100% whey protein?


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

Nick G said:


> I bought that NO Xplode a while back, tastes bloody disgusting.
> Am I right in thinking you can't really go wrong with most things that are 100% whey protein?


probably not. i would recomend the gold standard type. NO xplode taste good caompaired to alot of stuff, believe me.


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

> probably not. i would recomend the gold standard type. NO xplode taste good caompaired to alot of stuff, believe me.


I agree with you there corey..The kind I have tasted great in water. But I have seen alot of people mix it into fruit punch and I couldn't even tell there was any N.O in it.

If you don't like the taste of it, there's a tablet form too.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

Sheppard said:


> > probably not. i would recomend the gold standard type. NO xplode taste good caompaired to alot of stuff, believe me.
> 
> 
> I agree with you there corey..The kind I have tasted great in water. But I have seen alot of people mix it into fruit punch and I couldn't even tell there was any N.O in it.
> ...


the only thing about blending it with fruits is that ive heard citrus acids can mess with the creatine, nothing confirmed, but just something too keep in mind. a new study also show that fruit acids can inhibit or decrease the bodys ability to take in medicine or drugs so i guess its better to be safe and just blend everything in water.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Nick G said:


> there is a gym down the street from my house, so im thinking i can go there 3-4 times per week... i jsut gotta stop in and find out their schedule. i just moved in around here.
> my goal is just to trim down a bit, i am big boned and have been told i could turn a lot of my mass into muscle in a year or so if i put my mind to it, but im not looking to be anything like a body builder, just less flabby, get rid of my gut. and if i get into it, maybe ill go from there.
> i mean, the thing is, my girl is (almost) an RD, so i eat fairly well, its just my lack of exercise that i think is standing in the way of trimming down.


PUT DOWN THE BEER!!!

Thats one of my biggest problems and eating my dinner late at night and then going to bed an hour or 2 later....after drinking beer.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

if you guys are looking to cut some weight, no carbs after 6 pm is a good rule. yeah and that includes beer...


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

^^ agreed

It's hard to lose weight or even to stay the same weight if you go to bed with a six pack sloshing in your gut.

Going to the gym is so much different than manual labor. I rough necked for a few months right out of high school, and was a rigger for a crane company every weekend over the school year. That did almost nothing for me, and i think those are possibly two of the hardest jobs out there manual labor wise. The gym on the other hand, after 2 months you'll look and feel like a new man. Theres just no comparison.


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## Devon Amazon (Apr 3, 2005)

Im going to try the NO XPLODE stuff, but is expensive!

A tub of that sh*t costs the same as a months gym fee's!

I tried whey protein but i didnt see a great deal of difference and it made my farts smell so bad i almost got dumped!


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

the thing with manual labor is usually this:

its like 8 hours, how the hell will the body be able to recover from that? if you are on roids and manage to eat continuously during the whole day perhaps, but you are most likely over exerting the muscles.

youre most likely lifting "light" objects, many, many times. good for toning and weight loss but not optimal for muscle building.

the techniques you lift with are prob not optimal, lost of weird angles, hard to grab object etc.

you almost never get to lift using your entire body, its usually the back shoulders and biceps that get to work and not so much the legs and chest.



Devon Amazon said:


> Im going to try the NO XPLODE stuff, but is expensive!
> 
> A tub of that sh*t costs the same as a months gym fee's!
> 
> I tried whey protein but i didnt see a great deal of difference and it made my farts smell so bad i almost got dumped!


lol. well protein supps can be replaced with protein rich food, its just alot cheaper and simpler. 
and believe me eating right is 50% of the whole deal.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

alright, yeah i guess that makes a lot of sense. 
thanks for your help man. much appreciated. ill PM you and let you know how and when it goes.

and as far as eating, i never eat after 7, i usually go to sleep like 12-1am, and i only drink beer on the weekends. not even one or two at night. i eat pretty well, i never snack or anything, my proportion control is what kills me. i mean i dont eat like a complete health nut, but i dont eat fast food either. i just cant get rid of the gut. its weird because nothing on my body is flabby, except for the gut. i have always had it.. i just never used to care, but lately i have been getting on myself to do something about it. 
since i moved into this new place, the train down the street, there is a gym across from it, like a little mom and pop type place, and every day i think "check it out" and every day there is another excuse. 
monday (not going home today) im poppin in there and seeing whats up though. 
again, thanks CORey.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

cueball said:


> working out is for p*ssy"women", real men do manual labor,, thats there work out.. and it pays not the other way around,,, um f*cking buff and i ve never been in a gym once just manual labor for 6 years season in season out...
> 
> i aint got time to fruit it up in a Gym


lol are you serious?? You sound like one of those hookers from one of those HBO show's. "Manual labors me every night and I love it", nobody cares asshole go back to mexico.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Lets stop the argueing guys..
I dont want to clean the thread up or lock it eventually,So lets keep it on track everyone...


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

C0Rey said:


> no disrespect cue but you are far from buff. and not everyone does manual labour and actually really enjoy lifting, so if you wanna be all ethug and call me and everyone else fruits and pussies id suggest you think twice about the fact that alot of the lifters here would criple your labour intensive lobster ass.
> 
> and Back on topic never heard of 17 bol. is it a nitro/creatine drink? any links?


Its got creatine in it http://www.fitnessone.com/17bol-p-1000.htm...amp;name=17-Bol. I don't know, no more juice for me I'm getting older and I don't need it. But the way I push my self in the gym I burn muscle easy and can drop 30 pounds by accident if I'm not careful. Went down to 170 frikkin pounds in a week and it wasn't funny so I've been stacking 17-bol with lots of on whey. Now I can still be a beast in the gym and I got back up to where I was at and maintaining. I'm not to sure of the scientific details about it, like I said a friend convinced me to try it. With the results I got from it tho I just can't believe this sh*t is legal.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

well i get im not shure about this but BOL is in norwegian a word for roids.. u used to take roids?


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## sick fish man (Mar 21, 2006)

its a steroid, or prohormone. either ways its not good for you


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

sick fish man said:


> its a steroid, or prohormone. either ways its not good for you


not for me then


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

sick fish man said:


> its a steroid, or prohormone. either ways its not good for you


Can't be, ITs legal.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Hey Nick, 
I know one thing a lot of people have a problem with is know how MUCH weight to lift and WHEN to up their weights. Here's a generic formula for figuring all that out. Work out fairly lightly for the first 2-3 weeks and give your body and mind a chance to get used to the routine. After that use this to calculate your ONE REP MAX, then use that to figure out the weights you want to lift. I've found that making and printing an Excel spreadsheet and keeping close track of your progress and failures will help you dial in a good program.

Your Approximate 1 Rep Max is 
Reps %1RM 
1: 100, 2: 95, 3: 90, 4: 88, 5: 86, 6: 83, 7: 80, 8: 78, 9: 76, 10: 75, 11:72, 12: 70.

This is how you use the table. Find the number of reps to concentric failure that you can perform with a certain weight. In other words, if you can only do eight reps with a certain weight and could not possible do another full rep, that is your point of failure. Find the percentage associated with that number of repetitions from the table above.
Now, divide the weight that you can do by that percentage using decimals (83 percent equals .83) and that will give you an approximation of your one repetition maximum. For example, if you can perform 10 reps with 175 lbs. in the bench press, that means that 175 lbs. is 75% (0.75) of your one repetition maximum. So you would take 175 divided by .75 and that would equal 233 lbs.

You then want to go the the chart below and figure the weights to use for your sets. If you follow the example of 233 lbs for a ORM you'll come out with Week1 Set 1 = 128lbs, Set 2 = 140, Set 3 = 140, Set 4 = 150.

Set 1	Set 2	Set 3	Set 4 Level	Set 1 Set 2	Set 3	Set 4
12	10	10	8 Week 1	55%	60%	60%	65%
12	10	10	8 Week 2	60%	65%	65%	70%
12	10	10	8 Week 3	65%	70%	70%	75%
12	10	10	8 Week 4	70%	75%	75%	80%
12	10	10	8 Week 5	70%	75%	75%	80%
12	10	10	8 Week 6	70%	75%	75%	80%
12	10	10	8 Recalc ORM

At 6 weeks do the ONE REP MAX again and recalculate your next 6 week cycle. This way you can walk into the gym, know how much weight to put on the bar and get your ass to work without standing around figuring where you were last time, how much to jump and when.

Sorry the chart got a little messed up transferring from Excel to HTML but I'm sure you can figure it out.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

C0Rey said:


> well i get im not shure about this but BOL is in norwegian a word for roids.. u used to take roids?


Yea, for a while to. lol and no I'm not bald and yes I have a hard on right now. Not promoting roids just saying theres a responsible way and an irresponsible way. I've never had any adverse reaction except maybe the occasional blowing sh*t out of proportion which I've always done since I was ankle high lol.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Bawb2u said:


> Hey Nick,
> I know one thing a lot of people have a problem with is know how MUCH weight to lift and WHEN to up their weights. Here's a generic formula for figuring all that out. Work out fairly lightly for the first 2-3 weeks and give your body and mind a chance to get used to the routine. After that use this to calculate your ONE REP MAX, then use that to figure out the weights you want to lift. I've found that making and printing an Excel spreadsheet and keeping close track of your progress and failures will help you dial in a good program.
> 
> Your Approximate 1 Rep Max is
> ...


wow, thats pretty mathematical
i like it. 
that was always my problem at the gym, and was always why i stopped going, i wouldnt know what to do and how much of it, and i always felt like i had my thumb up my ass trying to figure it all out, so i would just run, but be pissed at myself for paying to run in place then i would stop going. 
thanks man, i will definitely give that a try.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

Liquid said:


> well i get im not shure about this but BOL is in norwegian a word for roids.. u used to take roids?


Yea, for a while to. lol and no I'm not bald and yes I have a hard on right now. Not promoting roids just saying theres a responsible way and an irresponsible way. I've never had any adverse reaction except maybe the occasional blowing sh*t out of proportion which I've always done since I was ankle high lol.
[/quote]

hehe. well it doesnt f*ck with everyone and as for most things knowledge is the key.
imo i would never do it just cause it would feel right.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Bawb2u said:


> Hey Nick,
> I know one thing a lot of people have a problem with is know how MUCH weight to lift and WHEN to up their weights. Here's a generic formula for figuring all that out. Work out fairly lightly for the first 2-3 weeks and give your body and mind a chance to get used to the routine. After that use this to calculate your ONE REP MAX, then use that to figure out the weights you want to lift. I've found that making and printing an Excel spreadsheet and keeping close track of your progress and failures will help you dial in a good program.
> 
> Your Approximate 1 Rep Max is
> ...


I used to do that. Arnold's a genius ain't he, start out with your max then work your way down in in weight lol good book. I don't really keep to a spreadsheet any more tho. I'm way passed that I just do what hurts most then bang 2-4 more constantly switching up routines as its a must. Sometimes I won't even bang out a full set because its all about resistance and loving that pain. You can push a lot of weight very slowly and get 20 fold results and satisfaction. After years of banging your body gets used to sh*t ridiculously fast the numbers just become annoying.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

yeah im there too, i just sorta feel whats hurting me and what my body has gotten used too.


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## sick fish man (Mar 21, 2006)

Liquid said:


> its a steroid, or prohormone. either ways its not good for you


Can't be, ITs legal.
[/quote]

Yea i know, but it is the precursor compound to the steroid, so when you break it down in you body it becomes and androgen steroid. These are probably the worst kinds of steroids to take. the safest steroids are injected directly b/c they have the least adverse side effects. steroids injested orally are not good for you. Look it up online though that would be better than just taking my advice.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

sick fish man said:


> its a steroid, or prohormone. either ways its not good for you


Can't be, ITs legal.
[/quote]

Yea i know, but it is the precursor compound to the steroid, so when you break it down in you body it becomes and androgen steroid. These are probably the worst kinds of steroids to take. the safest steroids are injected directly b/c they have the least adverse side effects. steroids injested orally are not good for you. Look it up online though that would be better than just taking my advice.
[/quote]








will do, thanks for the heads up tho..


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

cueball said:


> corey still thinking of something catchy to say bro,,? ha ha ha,, your tin foil man


not that its true.. but just the stuff this guy says


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

you should have seen the f*cking retarded PM he sendt me.. wait let me show p fury how completely off the grid this guy is:



> *whats up *** boy,,, i bet you really mack the women seen lol o my f*ck ..!
> 
> opie taylor um gonna call you from now on,, i am like a stalker on this site you don't say sh*t to me ill love you like a brother,, cross my path and ill mow you over man.. i f*cking hate you with a passion your like a pimple that never heals speeking of pimples you use soap much,, you got the dirtiest pimply face eva f*cking ginger kid
> 
> and don't be a p*ssy you better PM me back f*cker*


i replied back and now i think he may have killed himself.


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## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

C0Rey said:


> you should have seen the f*cking retarded PM he sendt me.. wait let me show p fury how completely off the grid this guy is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's possibly the funniest/most disturbing pm I'v ever seen.
I also give it a U for grammar.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Liquid said:


> I used to do that. Arnold's a genius ain't he, start out with your max then work your way down in in weight lol good book. I don't really keep to a spreadsheet any more tho. I'm way passed that I just do what hurts most then bang 2-4 more constantly switching up routines as its a must. Sometimes I won't even bang out a full set because its all about resistance and loving that pain. You can push a lot of weight very slowly and get 20 fold results and satisfaction. After years of banging your body gets used to sh*t ridiculously fast the numbers just become annoying.


Yeah, I used a notebook and the spreadsheets for about 2 years, doing basically what that routine said. I found it easier than "thinking" all the time, it became nice and automatic. Once you've gotten to a good strength and KNOW YOUR BODY, that thing isn't really needed anymore but it's great for newbs and for building a good work ethic and learning to live a routine. Some of my routines after that became just on single set, done s-l-o-w-l-y until I couldn't lift at all. I like that especially for squats, just doing them until your legs quivered.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


yeah but for someone like me who doesn't always eat when he's supposed to it helps maintain the pump. I don't usually eat breakfast and very rarely lunch, I just don't have the appetite. I'll eat a healthy dinner, but I'm no wizard in the kitchen. Half the stuff my wife cooks I won't eat, not because it doesn't taste good, god I love lasagna, but I also know whats in it and it disgusts me and I'm no wizard in the kitchen nor have the time to be. So its shakes/milk and supplements the occasional pbj during the day and lots of meat and clean pasta for dinner lol again im no wiz in the kitchen so when I have to cook lets just say my taste buds are used to it.


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## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

C0Rey said:


> you should have seen the f*cking retarded PM he sendt me.. wait let me show p fury how completely off the grid this guy is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sad.


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

C0Rey said:


> you should have seen the f*cking retarded PM he sendt me.. wait let me show p fury how completely off the grid this guy is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...

















this is hall of fame


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Liquid said:


> NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


yeah but for someone like me who doesn't always eat when he's supposed to it helps maintain the pump. I don't usually eat breakfast and very rarely lunch, I just don't have the appetite. I'll eat a healthy dinner, but I'm no wizard in the kitchen. Half the stuff my wife cooks I won't eat, not because it doesn't taste good, god I love lasagna, but I also know whats in it and it disgusts me and I'm no wizard in the kitchen nor have the time to be. So its shakes/milk and supplements the occasional pbj during the day and lots of meat and clean pasta for dinner lol again im no wiz in the kitchen so when I have to cook lets just say my taste buds are used to it.
[/quote]

Dude, I bet if you can get 5/6 meals in a day you'll see very good gains; just try it. If you don't feel like eating a real meal have a protein shake or bar.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


yeah but for someone like me who doesn't always eat when he's supposed to it helps maintain the pump. I don't usually eat breakfast and very rarely lunch, I just don't have the appetite. I'll eat a healthy dinner, but I'm no wizard in the kitchen. Half the stuff my wife cooks I won't eat, not because it doesn't taste good, god I love lasagna, but I also know whats in it and it disgusts me and I'm no wizard in the kitchen nor have the time to be. So its shakes/milk and supplements the occasional pbj during the day and lots of meat and clean pasta for dinner lol again im no wiz in the kitchen so when I have to cook lets just say my taste buds are used to it.
[/quote]

Dude, I bet if you can get 5/6 meals in a day you'll see very good gains; just try it. If you don't feel like eating a real meal have a protein shake or bar.
[/quote]

yeah I tried that, long time ago but I can't eat when I'm not hungry, so it's hard to maintain without supplements. I do however drink 3 shakes a day, double scoop of on whey with milk. One in the morning, one before my work out and one at night right before dinner all double scooped so my protein in take is around 200 grams a day. I would just never be able to rely on food a lone. No idea why I just can't eat when I'm not hungry and hunger doesn't usually set in until around dinner time.


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## ripped2shreds (Apr 20, 2006)

yea there is lots of decent supps out there right now, many of which are the precursor to an illegal compound. Im not sure but I believe 17-bol is the precursor to 17-Boldenone. A decent product, but not as effective as Bold200, which is also a precursor to Boldenone and is stronger. Depending on what you are looking for, M-Drol(superdrol) is the best legaly available for mass, as is Havoc, which will not convert to estrogen, and will induce much leaner and dryer gains then M-Drol. Furazadrol (precursor to Winny) is the best for cutting and lean hardness. All of these are considered pro-hormones and shouldnt be used without proper PCT. 
Me personaly, I just stick to 3 myoplex a day, some muscle milk, steak or pork, and tuna. about 7 meals a day + busting my ass in the gym (doin reps until absolute faliure and until i nearly blackout on burn out sets) combined with one rep power sets maxing out weight will pack mass on as fast as any supplement out there.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

ripped2shreds said:


> yea there is lots of decent supps out there right now, many of which are the precursor to an illegal compound. Im not sure but I believe 17-bol is the precursor to 17-Boldenone. A decent product, but not as effective as Bold200, which is also a precursor to Boldenone and is stronger. Depending on what you are looking for, M-Drol(superdrol) is the best legaly available for mass, as is Havoc, which will not convert to estrogen, and will induce much leaner and dryer gains then M-Drol. Furazadrol (precursor to Winny) is the best for cutting and lean hardness. All of these are considered pro-hormones and shouldnt be used without proper PCT.
> Me personaly, I just stick to 3 myoplex a day, some muscle milk, steak or pork, and tuna. about 7 meals a day + busting my ass in the gym (doin reps until absolute faliure and until i nearly blackout on burn out sets) combined with one rep power sets maxing out weight will pack mass on as fast as any supplement out there.


 Do I really need to cycle with this stuff







If I should I will, but I mean I buy this stuff from GNC ffs lol.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

mmmmmm...cycle


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

Jewelz said:


> NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


if it gets me psycked about lifting when im dead tired, decreases the amount of rest i need during training and helps me push out a few extra reps its far form a waste. the pump itself isnt a pluss but if it helps to get blood to the muscles same as nutrients i guess its a pluss after all.


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## ReBoot (Oct 31, 2006)

Jewelz said:


> NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


I think Nitrogen replacement and NO Vapor are mostly placebo effect. I've seen the actual chart data from taking Nitrogen replacement and NO vapors. NO Vapor is about the same as getting a good stretch (which is needed for weight lifting) because it stretches the fascia which is a layer of protective covering that holds muscle in place, and when stretched properly allows more blood to flow into it and the muscle which encourages muscle growth. The excitement from it can be gained from a simple B12 vitamin.

Nitrogen replacement is good if you do not have a steady diet, however the contradicting part of this is that if your trying to get results in a gym. Your spinning your wheels if your not on a good diet. Diet is 75% (at least) of all results in the gym. You can lift as hard as you want but if your taking in alcohol, greasy foods, excessively fatty foods, and so on, you will never see good results. After diet is sleeping, your body needs 8 hrs of sleep to grow and produce muscle properly, and after that is about your workout\cardio habits. Cardio is essential also because increasing the heart rate after a good workout will help force the body to pump out more natural growth hormone by the increased heart rate.

Whey protein and Casein protein are a main essential. Whey is in a form that starts to break down immediately once it hits your stomach. It takes roughly 45 mins total to break down 45-50g of protein, and is mainly for use right after your workout. Its called post-workout nutrition. Casein protein is a milk protein that takes the body a longer time to break down, very good for right before you goto bed so that your body continues to digest throughout the night and that way your body doesnt run out of fuel or begin to starve. In which the moment your body doesnt have food in it to digest your body goes into a catabolic state which starts to eat away muscle you already have to get proteins.

Vitamins and vitamin supplements should all be checked online. I will post up the website with the data when I find the address again, but basically if it takes more than 32 mins for a vitamin to breakdown in the stomach than its useless because it will be in your digestive tract by the time it begins to spread nutrients. I.E., the only way to get nutrients from a vitamin is if it breaks down in your stomach and not in digestive tract.

BCAA's are essential for building muscle also. BCAA's are Branch Chain Amino Acids, however once again if your on a good clean diet, your body will get enough of these from proper eating habits.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

plus lots of glutashit, lots of glutashit + amino acids=good stuff


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

I have just sat and read throught his post from page one and some really interesting stuff has been said apart from the crap Cue was talking about........................

We all have our own different workouts so ill share on the one i use that has built alot of people muscle from the time i was a PT.....

Monday-- Chest/Biceps--- 5 sets- 12-10-8-6-4 reps adding weight each time(weight depends on the person)

Tuesday Back/Triceps--- 5 set- 12-10-8-6-4 reps

Wednesday- Legs

Thursday- Shoulders( traps, anterior,middle and posterior delts)

Friday-- FULL cardio Day up to 2 hours

Saturday and Sunday----Rest days

Before each sesion i would also do 10 mins on treadmill and 10 mins on x-trainer to get the heart rate going and the musles loose and warm before the workout..

After a session i would do 100 sit ups.....Plus before the session i would take a 1 tea spoon of creatine, during the session i sip on whye protien and after the session i would have another teaspoon of creatine.....

This is just the session i used to do, everyone has thier own preferences to what they feel works but this is the one that worked for me......

As regards to suppliments i have used a number of things including deca, which worked unbelievably, BUT having said that it isnt worth ruining your body just to look good, i used it for 4 moths in which time i eneded up fighting alot, getting lots of spots, headaches, anxiety etcetc, it really waswnt worth it.....

So after this i use to take creatine, whey protein, and vitamins...

I only drank whey protien during a workout and only took creatine before and after a work out....this is what i found worked best after a 2 years of experimenting with the stuff...............

Hope this helps

dez


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> I have just sat and read throught his post from page one and some really interesting stuff has been said apart from the crap Cue was talking about........................
> 
> We all have our own different workouts so ill share on the one i use that has built alot of people muscle from the time i was a PT.....
> 
> ...


how longs your mile, I just got my mile back down to 7 minutes and my 2 mile in 15 trying to get it down to 14.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

i normally use to run 5k,,,,, which took me around 19 mins, but at the moment i have been running on the road not on the mill, so dont know how many miles im covering...


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> i normally use to run 5k,,,,, which took me around 19 mins, but at the moment i have been running on the road not on the mill, so dont know how many miles im covering...


tell me about it, I got this competition going on with my kids. Fortitude vs Youth I call it lol. They kick my ass on the treadmill.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

I use to do alot of 10k running when i was in my teens, and basically i use to just stick the treadmill on the fastest setting and run for 30-40 mins but damn i used to get bored....BUT now i just run a few miles a day just to keep fit........


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> I use to do alot of 10k running when i was in my teens, and basically i use to just stick the treadmill on the fastest setting and run for 30-40 mins but damn i used to get bored....BUT now i just run a few miles a day just to keep fit........


yea think they were being a bit easy on me at first. I'm just starting to let them use some of my equipment so they got on the other day ran a mile in 8, just pacing themselves, nothing special. I got to talking sh*t with my "fortitude vs youth" crap and they both put it on 10 and made me look like an asshole. Why I'm trying to get them on a 3 mile lol.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

This thread makes me realize how much of a sack of Shite I've been the past 3-4 years....I used to be a nut in the gym for about 5 years running under 6 minute miles (Due to Soccer training)

My workouts varied every 3 or so months I would switch the excercises and muscle groups I worked together.

I did the exact same thing as Dez EXCEPT legs...They have always been big naturally and with all the running I did for Soccer 4-5 days a week I ignored them.

At about the 3/4 month mark I would then switch and hit Shoulder/bi's/abs or tri's/abs, chest/Tri's, Back/bi's
I would change the whole routine monthly as far as which excersices I did but would leave the main strength builders.

I also used Dumbells...I wasnt too big on bars I felt a better pump and had to utilize more muscle to stabilize them for chest and shoulders etc.

Supplements...
I used a HUGE amount of supps monthly.
I want to say it was called HyperDrive 360...Think it was twinlabs..It hadd glutamine Cla protein etc....it went off the market after about a year and Im not quite sure why...I had heard there were anabolics in there that werent legal or something...Not sure how true that was.

Protein is obvious..I used Nitro tech, Cell tech, amino fuel and BCAAs for my shakes, I took animal packs daily, CLA and Glutamine, HMB (Is this used anymore? It was expensive as hell!) Ripped fuel towards the end as well.

I took multiple vitamins on top of this. Chromium Picolinate and a bunch of others.

I went from 185-218 in about 4-5 years.

Granted I didnt have washboard abs but they were there.

Has anyone ever used the Pro=steroids?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

notaverage said:


> This thread makes me realize how much of a sack of Shite I've been the past 3-4 years....I used to be a nut in the gym for about 5 years running under 6 minute miles (Due to Soccer training)
> 
> My workouts varied every 3 or so months I would switch the excercises and muscle groups I worked together.
> 
> ...


Dumb bells are great for isolation, I hate the whole gay bowflex movement, I'm old school so theres nothing light good ol cast iron. Some of the techniques I like to use are preacher curls on my knees or layed down on my belly to eliminate any secondary help. Theirs a routine you can do, simular to headbangers except you keep your arms straight and elbows lock. Forgot the name of it but great way to expand the rib cage.

The new fad for hmb is hydrosluts (hydroxycuts). Personally I don't like the sh*t but its better then ripped fuel. Stay away from ripped fuel does more harm then good. I used to take the illegal deca, awsome sh*t but I don't want to end up with ass cancer and I don't really need it so there went that. Lost a lot of weight but I got it back.

My abs are my pride and joy







constantly banging out jack knifes with weight on my chest. You learn to love it lol.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

actually I've been meaning to find a source for desicated liver, a lot of places stopped selling it back when the mad cow crap was going around and I can't seem to find it in pill form.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

I know exactly what your talking about..you use dumbells or ez-curl and instead of stopping above your head you stretch and extend you arms behind you to stretch out your rib cage....hits lats too.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

notaverage said:


> I know exactly what your talking about..you use dumbells or ez-curl and instead of stopping above your head you stretch and extend you arms behind you to stretch out your rib cage....hits lats too.


^^ good stuff


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## mauls (Mar 25, 2004)

to be successful at working out, you need motivation. The best way I've found to achieve this is taking weekly photos for the first month, then spread them apart to every 3 weeks or so. Even though you don't notice any results in the mirror, when you put two photo's side by side (with the same pose) you will see the results.

It takes at minimum 6 weeks to see major results, (assuming proper diet, workouts, and protein intake)


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

hehe, kinda amuses me though how they try and make it sound like a real steroid name :/


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## ripped2shreds (Apr 20, 2006)

Liquid said:


> yea there is lots of decent supps out there right now, many of which are the precursor to an illegal compound. Im not sure but I believe 17-bol is the precursor to 17-Boldenone. A decent product, but not as effective as Bold200, which is also a precursor to Boldenone and is stronger. Depending on what you are looking for, M-Drol(superdrol) is the best legaly available for mass, as is Havoc, which will not convert to estrogen, and will induce much leaner and dryer gains then M-Drol. Furazadrol (precursor to Winny) is the best for cutting and lean hardness. All of these are considered pro-hormones and shouldnt be used without proper PCT.
> Me personaly, I just stick to 3 myoplex a day, some muscle milk, steak or pork, and tuna. about 7 meals a day + busting my ass in the gym (doin reps until absolute faliure and until i nearly blackout on burn out sets) combined with one rep power sets maxing out weight will pack mass on as fast as any supplement out there.


 Do I really need to cycle with this stuff







If I should I will, but I mean I buy this stuff from GNC ffs lol.
[/quote]

No you do not need PCT with 17-bol, 17-bol is very very mild and most people will say it does nothing at all (aside from the psychological edge of thinking youre taking something powerful). Definitely get yourself some multivitamin and maybe some creatine if you want to before jumping to any of the supps that I listed. As far as 17-Bol goes, its more of the natural precursor to 17 Boldenone as opposed to Bold200 which is more potent and synthetic, so you dont have anything to worry about.


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## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

mauls said:


> to be successful at working out, you need motivation. The best way I've found to achieve this is taking weekly photos for the first month, then spread them apart to every 3 weeks or so. Even though you don't notice any results in the mirror, when you put two photo's side by side (with the same pose) you will see the results.
> 
> It takes at minimum 6 weeks to see major results, (assuming proper diet, workouts, and protein intake)


Agreed. Whenever I feel like I'm not getting anywhere I take a look at a picture of me when I was FAT. I have it stuck on my bedroom wall to motivate me everyday. And I'v kept afew of my old tshirts aswell, and use them to work out in. Being a medium size and wearing an extra large to work out in reminds you how much you've put in to get where you are


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

ripped2shreds said:


> No you do not need PCT with 17-bol, 17-bol is very very mild and most people will say it does nothing at all (aside from the psychological edge of thinking youre taking something powerful). Definitely get yourself some multivitamin and maybe some creatine if you want to before jumping to any of the supps that I listed. As far as 17-Bol goes, its more of the natural precursor to 17 Boldenone as opposed to Bold200 which is more potent and synthetic, so you dont have anything to worry about.


I didn't think so, I'm gonna ask my Doc anyway I don't want to f*ck around...

....Nahp, its definitely doing its job, besides it being easier to maintain gains, I'm back to having to shave every friggin day







. Its also got key creatine ingredients in it, so pretty much kills two birds with one stone.

I've always taken GNC's mega mens, vitamin e and a few others on a regular basis. Still take the mega as a sup and e cause its good for the skin. St. Johnwort all that good chit..


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

piranhasrule said:


> to be successful at working out, you need motivation. The best way I've found to achieve this is taking weekly photos for the first month, then spread them apart to every 3 weeks or so. Even though you don't notice any results in the mirror, when you put two photo's side by side (with the same pose) you will see the results.
> 
> It takes at minimum 6 weeks to see major results, (assuming proper diet, workouts, and protein intake)


Agreed. Whenever I feel like I'm not getting anywhere I take a look at a picture of me when I was FAT. I have it stuck on my bedroom wall to motivate me everyday. And I'v kept afew of my old tshirts aswell, and use them to work out in. Being a medium size and wearing an extra large to work out in reminds you how much you've put in to get where you are
[/quote]

You are defo right there buddy, i did body building from the age of 16 till around 22-23, and when i stopped i went up to something like 17 1/2 stone and man all the work just go's to crap after a few months, so now i keep a picture of what i looked like before and after to make sure i dont go back to fat.......so far i have lost 1 1/2 stone but mainly from doing martial arts, press ups amd sit ups............but this month i will be joining back at the gym to start a body building routine as i want some more strength as i am starting MMA next year....

andy


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> to be successful at working out, you need motivation. The best way I've found to achieve this is taking weekly photos for the first month, then spread them apart to every 3 weeks or so. Even though you don't notice any results in the mirror, when you put two photo's side by side (with the same pose) you will see the results.
> 
> It takes at minimum 6 weeks to see major results, (assuming proper diet, workouts, and protein intake)


Agreed. Whenever I feel like I'm not getting anywhere I take a look at a picture of me when I was FAT. I have it stuck on my bedroom wall to motivate me everyday. And I'v kept afew of my old tshirts aswell, and use them to work out in. Being a medium size and wearing an extra large to work out in reminds you how much you've put in to get where you are
[/quote]

You are defo right there buddy, i did body building from the age of 16 till around 22-23, and when i stopped i went up to something like 17 1/2 stone and man all the work just go's to crap after a few months, so now i keep a picture of what i looked like before and after to make sure i dont go back to fat.......so far i have lost 1 1/2 stone but mainly from doing martial arts, press ups amd sit ups............but this month i will be joining back at the gym to start a body building routine as i want some more strength as i am starting MMA next year....

andy
[/quote]

get a heavy bag and run 3 minute rounds with 1 minute intervals, great cardio. also great for maintaining form.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

i find it difficult at the moment as i am going for my next dan grade in karate so only doing the jogging and just karate 5 nights a week....till december then heavy weighlifting will start and MMA training

dez


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> i find it difficult at the moment as i am going for my next dan grade in karate so only doing the jogging and just karate 5 nights a week....till december then heavy weighlifting will start and MMA training
> 
> dez


speaking of which







wheres the mma thread, just watch a great fight between that kid nick diaz's brother and some other guy. Some pretty good guys coming up on spike this year.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

We dont get a huge amount of MMA on the telle in the UK wish we did, get alot of K1 thought, love that stuff


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> We dont get a huge amount of MMA on the telle in the UK wish we did, get alot of K1 thought, love that stuff


They got a few more Brits on the show this year. Think its 205 and 185 weight classes. Probably the best looking competition in both on the show yet.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

Is there a website to view some of these fights...?????


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Dezboy said:


> Is there a website to view some of these fights...?????


http://www.spike.com/channel/ufc


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

mmalinker.com

or just download th entire shows off piratebay. thats wehat i do.

IMO bispin is gonna get owned soon.


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## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

i just got a quick question.
i go to the gym only once a week because im really busy with school and friends but everyday i do pushups using the push up bars, atleast 200 a day. i heard that rest is really important to let the muscles build up so lets say i did push ups every other day or if i did them 4 days straight and 3 days break would i see better results?


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

C0Rey said:


> i just got a quick question.
> i go to the gym only once a week because im really busy with school and friends but everyday i do pushups using the push up bars, atleast 200 a day. i heard that rest is really important to let the muscles build up so lets say i did push ups every other day or if i did them 4 days straight and 3 days break would i see better results?


It depends on how your body copes with you doing the press ups mate...............if you can do 200 a day and they are not a struggle then your muscles will get use to doing them hence your body doesnt need as much rest.............

But if you do your press ups and you find them very hard and your muscles ache afterwards then rest is important.............

Body builders should need more rest than most as In theory for them to keep growing they should be doing each set to failure so that thier muscle fibres break down and there body keeps thin king it needs to grow more muscle to cope with the pressure.......

This is only my take on things

dez


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

ufc, elitec xc or whatever. 
then sort by seeds, should bring up the latest cards.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

sapir said:


> i just got a quick question.
> i go to the gym only once a week because im really busy with school and friends but everyday i do pushups using the push up bars, atleast 200 a day. i heard that rest is really important to let the muscles build up so lets say i did push ups every other day or if i did them 4 days straight and 3 days break would i see better results?


do them everyday, your not going to see any growth after a certain point with just push ups. But if your looking to just stay in shape push ups are fine. Turn over do some flutter kicks while your at it







great for the abs.


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## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

Liquid said:


> i just got a quick question.
> i go to the gym only once a week because im really busy with school and friends but everyday i do pushups using the push up bars, atleast 200 a day. i heard that rest is really important to let the muscles build up so lets say i did push ups every other day or if i did them 4 days straight and 3 days break would i see better results?


do them everyday, your not going to see any growth after a certain point with just push ups. But if your looking to just stay in shape push ups are fine. Turn over do some flutter kicks while your at it







great for the abs.
[/quote]

lol im good my six pack stays no matter how much i eat, 
im gonna start going to the gym 3 times a week i just need a good work out schedule.
thanks for the input


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## Mattones (Jul 9, 2006)

I dont wanna cross the border as I'm scared id be arressted for my guns.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Mattones said:


> I dont wanna cross the border as I'm scared id be arressted for my guns.


I wouldn't worry about it on a Sunday


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

C0Rey said:


> ufc, elitec xc or whatever.
> then sort by seeds, should bring up the latest cards.


 Just watched Brock lesnor's workout for his UFC fights.....DAMN they are brutal.....he puts most people to shame.....


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

hes a juggernaut alright, but does he have the endurance, technique and experience to take on randy?
im not sure..


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

I have been reading the report, without a doubt if Brock gets a good head of steam randy is in trouble BUT having said that if Brock gets sloppy Randy will Punish him big time, SOOOO we will have to wait and see


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> NO supplements are a waste, IMO. All you get is maybe a slightly better pump while lifting, big deal..


they are pretty much just made of amino acids. it would be cheaper to just buy the pills with the same amino acids in it.

I tryed super pump 250 and thought it was a waste.

as for 17-bol, im not a fan of pro hormones. ive never done them and never will. my oppinion is if your buying a suplement that has steroid like gains, same or worse side effects but is legal your only fooling yourself. might as well do the real thing. I can't see a difference.


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