# Al-Qaida Decapitates American Prisoner



## Xenon

Rumsfeld and the chairman of hte Joint Chief of Staff tried to get Rather to not run the 60 minutes story for this very reason.












> BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- An Islamic Web site linked to al Qaeda showed video Tuesday of a man who identified himself as an American being beheaded.
> 
> His captors said the United States refused to exchange him for prisoners in the Abu Ghraib prison.
> 
> "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," says a hooded man standing behind the American.
> 
> "So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins, slaughtered in this way."
> 
> The video was discovered as a U.S. Senate committee heard testimony on the U.S. military investigation into abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib. (Full story)
> 
> At the beginning of the tape, the victim describes himself as Nicholas Berg from Pennsylvania.
> 
> "My name is Nic Berg. My father's name is David. My mother's name is Suzanne. I have a brother and a sister -- David and Sarah," says the man.
> 
> "I grew up in Westchester, New York, and moved to Philadelphia."
> 
> He is then shown sitting in front of five hooded men. After the statement is read by one of the men, the victim is pushed to the floor and, amid his screams, his throat is cut. Finally, one of the captors holds up the man's severed head.
> 
> Earlier in the day, the State Department identified the body of an American found Monday in Baghdad as that of Nicholas Berg of Pennsylvania.
> 
> Berg was not a soldier or a civilian employee of the Pentagon, the State Department said.
> 
> A senior State Department official also said that the beheaded body of an American had been found, but he could not confirm it was Berg.
> 
> The Web site said the killing had been carried out by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of an Islamist terrorist group that has claimed responsibility for numerous attacks on coalition forces in Iraq.
> 
> The voice on the tape could not be verified as that of al-Zarqawi.
> 
> Earlier Tuesday U.S. military officials said American soldiers have killed 13 Iraqi militia loyal to renegade Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and have detained 14 others in overnight fighting near Najaf.
> 
> Late Monday, members of al-Sadr's Mehdi Army attempted to ambush a U.S. convoy with small arms fire. No American forces were injured in the incident.
> 
> The U.S. military began a major offensive Sunday to retake control of parts of the city, reclaiming the governor's palace from al-Sadr's control.
> 
> Al-Sadr, who is wanted in connection with the killing of a rival cleric last year, launched an uprising against U.S. troops in April. Since then, coalition forces have cracked down on the cleric's strongholds while trying to avoid religious sites.
> 
> Al-Sadr is believed to be in Najaf, where his militia remains in control of much of the Shiite holy city, although he travels to nearby Kufa to deliver weekly sermons on Friday.
> 
> Saddam handover may occur by June 30
> Salem Chalabi, the man heading the Iraqi war crimes tribunal, said Tuesday the coalition is "considering" the possibility of handing over Saddam Hussein to Iraqis before the June 30 date for sovereignty.
> 
> But, he told CNN, he is not sure if it is ready to do that.
> 
> Earlier, Kuwaiti government sources told CNN they heard Chalabi say the United States would hand over Saddam to the Iraqis before they get sovereignty from the coalition. Wire services issued similar reports.
> 
> But Chalabi claimed he was misquoted and misunderstood. He said there is still a lot of work that defense attorneys for Saddam will have to do and it is likely he would not be the first of the suspects tried.
> 
> He said the tribunal would try to have his trial completed by the end of next year.


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## MR HARLEY

Great another Beheading that we dont do anything about ......









For all you people that thought our pics were bad , look at what they did to this guy ..and you wonder why









Nuke that country already


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## Alexraptor

why? nuke the country and you kill millions of innocent civilians. its not the population its certain groups and terrorists and renegades that do this, but its far far far from all iraqi's doing this


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## J_TREAT911

Jesus I just got done reading this report on another website. Its digusting! I dont' think we are justified to treat Iraqi prisoners the way we did because we are better then that ... but jesus! Something needs to be done about this! Beheading of another innocent American ... my deepest condolences to the family


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## 14_blast




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## MR HARLEY

Markosaur said:


> why? nuke the country and you kill millions of innocent civilians. its not the population its certain groups and terrorists and renegades that do this, but its far far far from all iraqi's doing this


WHY ?

Because we dont need to lose any more(People or any of our BOYS over there ). PERIOD


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## Alexraptor

and that justifies Geneside?


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## MR HARLEY

Markosaur said:


> and that justifies Geneside?


 In my mind it does ...........they are killing our boys left and right , and innocent people ..........

Its either that or we need to get out of their country .


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## watermonst3rs

I've read that one of our soldiers raped a underage Iraqi prisoner and they are debating weather or not to release the info to the public. Bush said they prob will because it will leak out and seem like a cover up. Truely sad what's going on, but it's war I guess. I'm sure we don't know 99% of what's really going on.


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## thePACK

MR HARLEY said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> 
> and that justifies Geneside?
> 
> 
> 
> In my mind it does ...........they are killing our boys left and right , and innocent people ..........
> 
> Its either that or we need to get out of their country .
Click to expand...

LOL...not wrong when we do it tto them..but definalty WRONG when they do it to us....killing more people will solve nothing..







..get out and let then u.n handle this now..we looking worse everday as this goes by..even with this soldiers death, it will still look bad our way..


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## Alexraptor

exactly, so we have no say on what and what not to do, Geneside is wrong in any event, no matter what the circomstance, by nuking iraq the US would be just as bad as the iraqi's, even worse, because then the US would have the blood of millions of innocent civilians. thats nothing compared to a few 100's or 1000's of american civilians or military, u think al Qaida may torture your ppl to death in gruesome ways? well think about ppl who would survive nuking of Iraq, they would live their lives and slowly rot and die away from radiation poisoning, and the aftermath would streach to generations to follow,


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## StuartDanger

MR HARLEY said:


> Nuke that country already


 how can you say that?
nuke a country simply for a terroristgroup doing the same thign american/uk soldiers did to them?

flip the situation, we (us and uk) soliders took pics of us humiliating iraq's so hell, nuke the us and the uk! kill millions and million of innocents. thank f*ck ur not in charge of nething like the army.

to say nuke the country just shows how ignorant and narrow minded you are, we want to be seen as a better group of peole then them, simply nuking them makes us as bad as terrorists.

3,000 people died because of terrorsists so is it fair to nuke a country and kill 6,000 people or something? then they attack again killing more then we retaliate??


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## HighOctane

I always believed in an EYE for and EYE and I still do.


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## MR HARLEY

spiderman2099uk said:


> MR HARLEY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nuke that country already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how can you say that?
> nuke a country simply for a terroristgroup doing the same thign american/uk soldiers did to them?
> 
> flip the situation, we (us and uk) soliders took pics of us humiliating iraq's so hell, nuke the us and the uk! kill millions and million of innocents. thank f*ck ur not in charge of nething like the army.
> 
> to say nuke the country just shows how ignorant and narrow minded you are, we want to be seen as a better group of peole then them, simply nuking them makes us as bad as terrorists.
> 
> 3,000 people died because of terrorsists so is it fair to nuke a country and kill 6,000 people or something? then they attack again killing more then we retaliate??
Click to expand...

yup kill them all son ...........ITS WAR DUDE ................look it up 
or dress up in one of your costumes for us again .:laugh:



> thank f*ck ur not in charge of nething like the army.


Hooked on phonics also works doode.......



> to say nuke the country just shows how ignorant and narrow minded you are, we want to be seen as a better group of peole then them, simply nuking them makes us as bad as terrorists.


:laugh:









Pack,


> LOL...not wrong when we do it tto them..but definalty WRONG when they do it to us....killing more people will solve nothing.. ..get out and let then u.n handle this now..


I never said it wasnt wrong when we do it .
and Your right the un should take over but they cant , plus it would only end up in civil war over there if we pulled out now .


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## MR HARLEY

Markosaur said:


> exactly, so we have no say on what and what not to do, Geneside is wrong in any event, no matter what the circomstance, by nuking iraq the US would be just as bad as the iraqi's, even worse, because then the US would have the blood of millions of innocent civilians. thats nothing compared to a few 100's or 1000's of american civilians or military, u think al Qaida may torture your ppl to death in gruesome ways? well think about ppl who would survive nuking of Iraq, they would live their lives and slowly rot and die away from radiation poisoning, and the aftermath would streach to generations to follow,


 sorry but Ohwell ..........sh*t happens ..............

WTC..sorry guys .


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## anotherreject04

this will not stop just by sending more troops or "nuke em" or just leaving....to stop this we need to look at why they are pissed at americans in the first place......i believe a big part of then being pissed at americans is the american support of isreal of course this isnot all but i think that is a start


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## Guest

> Berg was not a soldier or a civilian employee of the Pentagon, the State Department said.


Where did this guy come from?

Typical cowardly, sadistic Islamic terrorist. Cutting a bound man's throat and filming it. That in itself is an act of terrorism.


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## MR HARLEY

Bullsnake said:


> Berg was not a soldier or a civilian employee of the Pentagon, the State Department said.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did this guy come from?
> 
> Typical cowardly, sadistic Islamic terrorist. Cutting a bound man's throat and filming it. That in itself is an act of terrorism.
Click to expand...

 I wonder, if he wasent any of the above ...

What was he doing there???


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## StuartDanger

mr harley ur being an anus


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## MR HARLEY

spiderman2099uk said:


> mr harley ur being an anus


Thank You ...:laugh:

When you become an American I start taking your words seriously ..


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## Xenon

I think that we hold ourselves to a much higher standard of decency. Makes me proud to be an American.


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## staples

My minor is Middle Eastern studies. These fucks get their funding from within this country. Check out a book called American Jihad by Steve Emerson. Fundmentalism is the biggest threat to world order today. And could win becouse of the huge amounts of liberal pussys in power,like Dan "just got an american killed" Rather.


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## J_TREAT911

> I wonder, if he wasent any of the above ...
> 
> What was he doing there???


I think he was a civilian part of a firm that was rebuilding Iraq


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## garybusey

MR HARLEY said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> 
> why? nuke the country and you kill millions of innocent civilians. its not the population its certain groups and terrorists and renegades that do this, but its far far far from all iraqi's doing this
> 
> 
> 
> WHY ?
> 
> Because we dont need to lose any more(People or any of our BOYS over there ). PERIOD
Click to expand...

 No don't nuke them just Step up the Torturing....


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## StuartDanger

look mr harley, whats with dissing me coz of my beliefs? and dissing me coz im not american, you forget that your country, gave $3 billion to osama bin laden and c.i.a trained him! so maybe nuking them will be a good idea too, coz it will only lead to nukes coming back the other way and more terrorists flying boeings into other buildings.


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## aaron07_20

Too bad total war isnt allowed..I wish it would be...there is no reason why we should be there at ALL! All bush wants is the texas tea!


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## Enriqo_Suavez

The difference between Americans and Muslim fundamentalist terrorists is that a few americans merely humiliated their victims for a short time, but they walked away from the day alive to live the rest of their life. The humiliated were also CRIMINALS in the first place. These americans, btw, are looked DOWN upon by the rest of americans, as acting INCORRECTLY. The damned muslims forced an INNOCENT CIVILIAN to speak about his family on camera, before knocking him down and painfully cutting his throat until the head was completely severed, parading it around on tape. The rest of the muslim fundamentalists (not just terrorists) CHEER this act rather than shame it. There will be no peace as long as muslim fundamentalists are raised in their same culture of hate, just as there was no peace for african americans (still isn't in some circles) until america shaped up and changed its culture of repression, where kids were raised to hate.


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## MR HARLEY

spiderman2099uk said:


> look mr harley, whats with dissing me coz of my beliefs? and dissing me coz im not american, you forget that your country, gave $3 billion to osama bin laden and c.i.a trained him! so maybe nuking them will be a good idea too, coz it will only lead to nukes coming back the other way and more terrorists flying boeings into other buildings.


 I never forgot spider.....
We fund everybody and then they turn against us .......
Isnt the U.S. Great ....


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## Jewelz

Sickening.

We're being way too kind too these bastards just because there is international pressure on us to act civil. I for one, am not interested in helping these people rebuild their country for them.


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## Kreth 10RBP

First off. Genocide of a complete human race is wrong. Ok listen, if we nuke them, Bush would be the Hitler of the 21st century. he just killed a race faster than hitler and was more successful.

Second. If we did nuke them, the surrounding countrys would be suffering from the fallout radiation.

Third. A bomb that has no nuclear fallout, just a big boom would work well. Its not like their culture is something to marvel and preserve, their terroristic cavemen trying desperately to successfully fulfill their fake bibles idea of a jihad in this century.

War is ugly, deal with it.


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## Xenon

I just found it ironic that we are worried about womans panties being put on a prisoners head..... but they are chopping off heads on the Internet.


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## MR HARLEY

Xenon said:


> I just found it ironic that we are worried about womans panties being put on a prisoners head..... but they are chopping off heads on the Internet.


 Thank you .


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## thoroughbred

Xenon said:


> I just found it ironic that we are worried about womans panties being put on a prisoners head..... but they are chopping off heads on the Internet.


 its that simple mikey thx id rather be a pow of u.s than anywhere else please make me form a naked pyarmid at least ill live


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## rbp75

> this will not stop just by sending more troops or "nuke em" or just leaving....to stop this we need to look at why they are pissed at americans in the first place......i believe a big part of then being pissed at americans is the american support of isreal of course this isnot all but i think that is a start


That is a totally different subject that has nothing to do with why they hate us, they hate us because there a bunch of camel f#@$ing, evil lowlife pieces of sh*t who hate us for no other reason than because we do not have brown skin and do not share their religious beliefs. although I dissagree with nuking them the reality of accually doing something like that would eventually lead to the end of mankind. But a fullfledged all out assult on that country and many others like it would make this world much more peacefull when you consider all of the violence that has occured because of their religous ideoligy. f*ck them all!!!!!!!!


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## Alexraptor

it seems as this thread is starting to violate forum rules



> 4. No sexist or racist remarks. This is self explanatory. Dont do it.


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## MoeMZA

Racism in this website is rampant. Don't kid yourself.

It's utterly SAD how people collectively villify an entire race/ethnicity or religion based on the evil of an extremely small minority.


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## randomhero

The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?


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## randomhero

BTW racism is not rampant here. The mods and most people here are very respectful and understanding. Anywhere on the internet you run into ethnocentric assholes who think their sh*t doesnt stink. Out of any board on the net, i believe this one is the best kept and best regulated. The mods are on top of every move on this board, and quick to remove and restrict the posts of racist fashion.


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## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Racism in this website is rampant. Don't kid yourself.
> 
> It's utterly SAD how people collectively villify an entire race/ethnicity or religion based on the evil of an extremely small minority.


I don't think its a generalization (of the culture, not race) at all... An extremely small minority may be the ones actually commiting the evil acts, but the entire culture LOVES it and cheers in the streets.

You don't see any fundamentalist muslims apologizing for the recent grusome DEATH AND BEHEADING. Yet there is a full force apology put forth by America and its leaders for the mere embarassment of some criminals (I think the humiliation of these prisoners was WRONG... but put it in perspective with what the fundamentalist muslims do to us).


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## MoeMZA

randomhero said:


> The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?


 Again, it's extremely ignorant of yourself, or anyone else, to castigate a whole people, whether it's Arab or American.


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## randomhero

But its ok for the people of the middle east to do it to us?


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## randomhero

Your parents must have been advocates for the "do as i say, not as i do" program.


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## MoeMZA

Whatever happened to the MORAL HIGH GROUND, which America tries to honor and preserve?

Using certain persons' reasoning, the actions of a few GI's reflect the ENTIRE U.S. ARMY. Does this sound LOGICAL? Of course not. Yet Arabs are perceived in the same manner with this exact rationalization.


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## MoeMZA

randomhero said:


> But its ok for the people of the middle east to do it to us?


 Again, it's like saying, "You sexually abused my kids, so imma sexually abuse yours!"

We claim we are better than these insurgents/terrorists/criminals/whatever, yet we attempt to justify our inhumane actions.


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## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's extremely ignorant of yourself, or anyone else, to castigate a whole people, whether it's Arab or American.
Click to expand...

As much as you want to sound 'politically correct' the world doesn't always work that way. America is generalized by the middle eastern culture as 'evil'. It may not be ALL of the middle east, but it is a MAJORITY. The muslim extremists are just that... EXTREMISTS. They take the views of their popular culture to an extreme -- the point of killing americans and other western people rather than just hating them. If say that its untrue to generalize middle eastern culture by making that statement -- you need to open your eyes.


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## randomhero

Why must the US be the only one to be held to this moral high ground? War is war, no rules. And to answer your second question, i dont generalize all middle eastern people. I know that the vast majority over there probably dont want those things to be happening. However, those who stand there idle and let things happen are just as guilty as those who actually commit the crime. 
The deepest pits of hell are reserved for those who maintain neutrality in times of moral crisis. -Dante
A quote from some reading I did in high school. It may not be exact, but you get the idea.


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## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> But its ok for the people of the middle east to do it to us?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's like saying, "You sexually abused my kids, so imma sexually abuse yours!"
> 
> We claim we are better than these insurgents/terrorists/criminals/whatever, yet we attempt to justify our inhumane actions.
Click to expand...

 WRONG! We EMBARRASED the prisoners, they SLIT THE THROAT of their prisoner. Our prisoners were military, theirs was CIVILIAN. To eqaute these two acts in itself is ignorant. FURTHERMORE.... America and its leaders have apoligized for their actions, despite the fact that america as a whole didn't commit those actions, and americas leaders did not personally commit them. I have yet to hear an apology from the other sides people or leaders. And I won't because they CELEBRATE it and dance in the streets to news of it.


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## randomhero

I have to say moe, youre not adequately arguing your point. Enrigo is putting out some very good points, and i have yet to see you refute any of his findings with any evidence of your own.


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## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:



> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's extremely ignorant of yourself, or anyone else, to castigate a whole people, whether it's Arab or American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As much as you want to sound 'politically correct' the world doesn't always work that way. America is generalized by the middle eastern culture as 'evil'. It may not be ALL of the middle east, but it is a MAJORITY. The muslim extremists are just that... EXTREMISTS. They take the views of their popular culture to an extreme -- the point of killing americans and other western people rather than just hating them. If say that its untrue to generalize middle eastern culture by making that statement -- you need to open your eyes.
Click to expand...

 You should correct yourself, it's the American Government and it's policies that are hated by the Middle East. It's safe to say that most Americans are against Bush and his current foreign policies. Furthermore, not only do Arabs hate it, but an overwhelming majority of the world hates it as well. So, your reasoning is invalid.

Again, these EXTREMISTS you speak of are a very small minority. Our culture in America is violence-oriented (movies, music, games, etc). Do we have 'extremists' who take our 'popular culture' a step further? Yes. Columbine for one, and many other media motivated incidents have occured. Should I lump and generalize all Americans by using your logic? I won't do so.


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## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> But its ok for the people of the middle east to do it to us?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's like saying, "You sexually abused my kids, so imma sexually abuse yours!"
> 
> We claim we are better than these insurgents/terrorists/criminals/whatever, yet we attempt to justify our inhumane actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WRONG! We EMBARRASED the prisoners, they SLIT THE THROAT of their prisoner. Our prisoners were military, theirs was CIVILIAN. To eqaute these two acts in itself is ignorant. FURTHERMORE.... America and its leaders have apoligized for their actions, despite the fact that america as a whole didn't commit those actions, and americas leaders did not personally commit them. I have yet to hear an apology from the other sides people or leaders. And I won't because they CELEBRATE it and dance in the streets to news of it.
Click to expand...

 Are you expecting an apology from OSAMA because his followers slit an American's head?

Were our GI's actions inhumane? Were Al-queda's actions inhumane? Yes and Yes. The difference is we demand and accept accountability. AKA Moral high ground. If not, we are just as barbaric as Al-queda. And we are not.

This is what's being equated.


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## randomhero

Did the majority of the americans cheer as dylan klebold (one of the columbine shooters) dragged the dead body of one of the kids he shot down the street? I dont think so. How dare you compare a national tragedy like that to how we generalize about the middle east. WE do not condone what happened at columbine. The middle easterners do condone it and if they dont, they sure as hell dont try to stop it.


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## randomhero

I should have said, WOULD AMERICANS HAVE CHEERED...... oops


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## MoeMZA

randomhero said:


> Did the majority of the americans cheer as dylan klebold (one of the columbine shooters) dragged the dead body of one of the kids he shot down the street? I dont think so. How dare you compare a national tragedy like that to how we generalize about the middle east. WE do not condone what happened at columbine. The middle easterners do condone it and if they dont, they sure as hell dont try to stop it.


 The majority of Arabs did not CHEER. This is a complete fabrication to support your baseless argument.

Take 9/11 for example, the actions were condemned by the entire Muslim World and it's leaders.

Lies kill debates.


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## randomhero

While that MAY be true, i didnt see any muslims rushing out there to stop the decapitation.


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## randomhero

and btw, being an asshole kills a debate too, dont state whether you believe somoene is lying, just find facts to state that whatever is said is not the truth.


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## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's extremely ignorant of yourself, or anyone else, to castigate a whole people, whether it's Arab or American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As much as you want to sound 'politically correct' the world doesn't always work that way. America is generalized by the middle eastern culture as 'evil'. It may not be ALL of the middle east, but it is a MAJORITY. The muslim extremists are just that... EXTREMISTS. They take the views of their popular culture to an extreme -- the point of killing americans and other western people rather than just hating them. If say that its untrue to generalize middle eastern culture by making that statement -- you need to open your eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should correct yourself, it's the American Government and it's policies that are hated by the Middle East. It's safe to say that most Americans are against Bush and his current foreign policies. Furthermore, not only do Arabs hate it, but an overwhelming majority of the world hates it as well. So, your reasoning is invalid.
> 
> Again, these EXTREMISTS you speak of are a very small minority. Our culture in America is violence-oriented (movies, music, games, etc). Do we have 'extremists' who take our 'popular culture' a step further? Yes. Columbine for one, and many other media motivated incidents have occured. Should I lump and generalize all Americans by using your logic? I won't do so.
Click to expand...

 While its POSSIBLE that the American government and its policies (I beleive that it is the western culture, of which america is the main target) are the REASON for mid-eastern hatred, it is the AMERICAN PEOPLE that are hated. I guarentee if you were to interview someone at one of the many US flag burning etc rallies in the streets what it was they hated, they would NOT reply "The government and policies of the united states. But I love the average joe there". 
I do not need to correct myself, I said what I meant the first time.

As far as your anti-bush statement, you score a ZERO yet again, as the middle-eastern culture has hated america LONG BEFORE BUSH TOOK OFFICE. Bush may have ignited and fueled the hatred, but it was ALREADY HATRED and ALREADY THRIVING long before he came into the picture. And it was strong enough to invoke violent attacks (First WTC bombing, USS cole bombing, second WTC attack was planned and organized during Clintons administration).
Don't play this into your little anti-bush campaign again, as it doesn't fit there.

Now, your comments on the rest of the world hating americas policies... I find this statement odd. No other part of the world has gone to violent and extensive means to kill americans because of our/their policies. So I think you are wrong and they don't HATE Americans. Furthermore, keep in mind that the entire western culture is the target of these fundamental extremist muslims, not just america, also invalidating your argument.

Again, yes, the EXTREMISTS are a very small minority. They are the ones who actually commit violence. But their same views are held by a MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, its just that most the people don't go out and commit the heinous crimes that they do.

The columbine incident and other acts committed by americans within american borders are a COMPLETELY different ball park from the Islamic terrorists who, with subtle support from the majority of their people and their culture, literally 'declared war' on a country (America) and have committed ORGANIZED, WIDE-SCALE, and NUMEROUS attacks and acts of violence against their 'enemy'.


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## MoeMZA

randomhero said:


> While that MAY be true, i didnt see any muslims rushing out there to stop the decapitation.


 Again, using your reasoning, I'll play devil's advocate and say, I didn't see U.S. Brigade Commanders or fellow GIs rushing out there to stop the torture.

Bottom line is this, DO NOT GENERALIZE. It's foolish and outright ignorant.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Were our GI's actions inhumane? Were Al-queda's actions inhumane? Yes and Yes. The difference is we demand and accept accountability. AKA Moral high ground. If not, we are just as barbaric as Al-queda. And we are not.


I completely agree with this statement. Amazing.

Sorry about the way this post was earlier... It was a mistake on my part with placing quotes. This is how it should read.


----------



## randomhero

Damn enrigo, you da man!! I'll leave further debate up to you, you know much more than I.


----------



## randomhero

Why should we rush out to stop this so called Torture when we dont see the same reaction from the middle eastern community?


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> While that MAY be true, i didnt see any muslims rushing out there to stop the decapitation.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, using your reasoning, I'll play devil's advocate and say, I didn't see U.S. Brigade Commanders or fellow GIs rushing out there to stop the torture.
> 
> Bottom line is this, DO NOT GENERALIZE. It's foolish and outright ignorant.
Click to expand...

 I DO see many US leaders and military men rushing out to stop any future actions of this nature (prisoner embrassment). 
I DON'T see any muslim fundamentalists rushing out and doing whatever is in their power to stop any future actions of that nature(us civilians being burned and dragged through the streets, or throats being slit and heads cut off, etc etc)


----------



## randomhero

What do you call the big upheval in the US now about the punishment of the soldiers who embarrased the iraqis? Id say thats the US rushing to stop the iraqi abuse.


----------



## randomhero

And dont call people foolish and ignorant moe, it takes away from the validity of your argument.


----------



## kouma

All this fuss because one person died?

Other than the discraceful images of iraqi prisoners, did you forget how many of those prisoners died "naturally?". It wasn't only abuse and taking photos, it was beating to death, and killing that was happening in those jails. And now again, everyone is crying because one person got beheaded. Frankly I'd rather be beheaded then tortured to death.

Also what about that apache video of killing three innocent iraqis and making swiss cheese out of their bodies? is that better than beheading one person?


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

Please don't get me wrong.. I beleive that what we did to those prisoners was wrong. But in terms of scale... What they do to us is FAR FAR worse, and to compare them is ridiculous.

The difference between America and muslim fundamentalists is, as you put it, ACCOUNTABILITY. We accept responsibility and apoligize for our inhumane actions. They purposely commit them, and LOVE IT when others do the same.


----------



## randomhero

W3rd enrigo


----------



## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's extremely ignorant of yourself, or anyone else, to castigate a whole people, whether it's Arab or American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As much as you want to sound 'politically correct' the world doesn't always work that way. America is generalized by the middle eastern culture as 'evil'. It may not be ALL of the middle east, but it is a MAJORITY. The muslim extremists are just that... EXTREMISTS. They take the views of their popular culture to an extreme -- the point of killing americans and other western people rather than just hating them. If say that its untrue to generalize middle eastern culture by making that statement -- you need to open your eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should correct yourself, it's the American Government and it's policies that are hated by the Middle East. It's safe to say that most Americans are against Bush and his current foreign policies. Furthermore, not only do Arabs hate it, but an overwhelming majority of the world hates it as well. So, your reasoning is invalid.
> 
> Again, these EXTREMISTS you speak of are a very small minority. Our culture in America is violence-oriented (movies, music, games, etc). Do we have 'extremists' who take our 'popular culture' a step further? Yes. Columbine for one, and many other media motivated incidents have occured. Should I lump and generalize all Americans by using your logic? I won't do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While its POSSIBLE that the American government and its policies (I beleive that it is the western culture, of which america is the main target) are the REASON for mid-eastern hatred, it is the AMERICAN PEOPLE that are hated. I guarentee if you were to interview someone at one of the many US flag burning etc rallies in the streets what it was they hated, they would NOT reply "The government and policies of the united states. But I love the average joe there".
> I do not need to correct myself, I said what I meant the first time.
> 
> As far as your anti-bush statement, you score a ZERO yet again, as the middle-eastern culture has hated america LONG BEFORE BUSH TOOK OFFICE. Bush may have ignited and fueled the hatred, but it was ALREADY HATRED and ALREADY THRIVING long before he came into the picture. And it was strong enough to invoke violent attacks (First WTC bombing, USS cole bombing, second WTC attack was planned and organized during Clintons administration).
> Don't play this into your little anti-bush campaign again, as it doesn't fit there.
> 
> Now, your comments on the rest of the world hating americas policies... I find this statement odd. No other part of the world has gone to violent and extensive means to kill americans because of our/their policies. So I think you are wrong and they don't HATE Americans. Furthermore, keep in mind that the entire western culture is the target of these fundamental extremist muslims, not just america, also invalidating your argument.
> 
> Again, yes, the EXTREMISTS are a very small minority. They are the ones who actually commit violence. But their same views are held by a MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, its just that most the people don't go out and commit the heinous crimes that they do.
> 
> The columbine incident and other acts committed by americans within american borders are a COMPLETELY different ball park from the Islamic terrorists who, with subtle support from the majority of their people and their culture, literally 'declared war' on a country (America) and have committed ORGANIZED, WIDE-SCALE, and NUMEROUS attacks and acts of violence against their 'enemy'.
Click to expand...

 You "believe" and you "guarantee." This is insufficient.
Again, the majority of Americans DO NOT favor BUSH's foreign policies. Yet, you will generalize, again, and say it represents ALL AMERICAN sentiment, and thus the world hates AMERICA for this. NO. The world hates U.S. POLICIES directed by Bush.

You are right, mideast has always disliked the policy of the mideast. That's because the policy has always been the same, for the most part. Bush is the current president, he gets the blame, rightfully so, as would whoever is in office commanding the same policy.

It's a fact that the overwhelming majority of the world is against current U.S. Policy, don't debate this. Don't twist my point by saying, "no other part of the world has gone violent." My point is clear and precise. The attacks by extremists on other parts of the world have nothing to do with, again, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE WORLD THAT DISLIKES CURRENT U.S. POLICY.

Finally, you claim the small minority gets violent while the majority has the same views but does not get violent. The majority of ARABS, as well as the overwhelming majority of the world, have not taken violent action. DO NOT GENERALIZE ARABS, as they have the same dislike as the world community.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

kouma said:


> All this fuss because one person died?
> 
> Other than the discraceful images of iraqi prisoners, did you forget how many of those prisoners died "naturally?". It wasn't only abuse and taking photos, it was beating to death, and killing that was happening in those jails. And now again, everyone is crying because one person got beheaded. Frankly I'd rather be beheaded then tortured to death.
> 
> Also what about that apache video of killing three innocent iraqis and making swiss cheese out of their bodies? is that better than beheading one person?


 I'm sorry, I missed the news articles referencing the death by beating and torture. I wasn't aware that this happened. Can you please link them?

I'd also like to have the link to the articles referring to the Apache that killed 3 Iraqi civilians, as this one is news to me as well. However, going on what is generally the case, it was probably had a reason, or it was an accident or case of mistaken identity. If this is indeed true, I'd like to point out that a killing of that type does not compare to the kidnapping and decapitation that we are all talking about. Those people kidnapped a man they knew to be american, they forced him to speak in front of a camera, and they then made a show of using a knife to cut off his head. They then posted the video for the world to see. This SICKENS me, and DESERVES the uproar it has recieved.


----------



## kouma

MoeMZA said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> randomhero said:
> 
> 
> 
> The middle east villify us, and then kill our soldiers and civilians. Why cant we return the favor?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's extremely ignorant of yourself, or anyone else, to castigate a whole people, whether it's Arab or American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As much as you want to sound 'politically correct' the world doesn't always work that way. America is generalized by the middle eastern culture as 'evil'. It may not be ALL of the middle east, but it is a MAJORITY. The muslim extremists are just that... EXTREMISTS. They take the views of their popular culture to an extreme -- the point of killing americans and other western people rather than just hating them. If say that its untrue to generalize middle eastern culture by making that statement -- you need to open your eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should correct yourself, it's the American Government and it's policies that are hated by the Middle East. It's safe to say that most Americans are against Bush and his current foreign policies. Furthermore, not only do Arabs hate it, but an overwhelming majority of the world hates it as well. So, your reasoning is invalid.
> 
> Again, these EXTREMISTS you speak of are a very small minority. Our culture in America is violence-oriented (movies, music, games, etc). Do we have 'extremists' who take our 'popular culture' a step further? Yes. Columbine for one, and many other media motivated incidents have occured. Should I lump and generalize all Americans by using your logic? I won't do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While its POSSIBLE that the American government and its policies (I beleive that it is the western culture, of which america is the main target) are the REASON for mid-eastern hatred, it is the AMERICAN PEOPLE that are hated. I guarentee if you were to interview someone at one of the many US flag burning etc rallies in the streets what it was they hated, they would NOT reply "The government and policies of the united states. But I love the average joe there".
> I do not need to correct myself, I said what I meant the first time.
> 
> As far as your anti-bush statement, you score a ZERO yet again, as the middle-eastern culture has hated america LONG BEFORE BUSH TOOK OFFICE. Bush may have ignited and fueled the hatred, but it was ALREADY HATRED and ALREADY THRIVING long before he came into the picture. And it was strong enough to invoke violent attacks (First WTC bombing, USS cole bombing, second WTC attack was planned and organized during Clintons administration).
> Don't play this into your little anti-bush campaign again, as it doesn't fit there.
> 
> Now, your comments on the rest of the world hating americas policies... I find this statement odd. No other part of the world has gone to violent and extensive means to kill americans because of our/their policies. So I think you are wrong and they don't HATE Americans. Furthermore, keep in mind that the entire western culture is the target of these fundamental extremist muslims, not just america, also invalidating your argument.
> 
> Again, yes, the EXTREMISTS are a very small minority. They are the ones who actually commit violence. But their same views are held by a MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, its just that most the people don't go out and commit the heinous crimes that they do.
> 
> The columbine incident and other acts committed by americans within american borders are a COMPLETELY different ball park from the Islamic terrorists who, with subtle support from the majority of their people and their culture, literally 'declared war' on a country (America) and have committed ORGANIZED, WIDE-SCALE, and NUMEROUS attacks and acts of violence against their 'enemy'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You "believe" and you "guarantee." This is insufficient.
> Again, the majority of Americans DO NOT favor BUSH's foreign policies. Yet, you will generalize, again, and say it represents ALL AMERICAN sentiment, and thus the world hates AMERICA for this. NO. The world hates U.S. POLICIES directed by Bush.
> 
> You are right, mideast has always disliked the policy of the mideast. That's because the policy has always been the same, for the most part. Bush is the current president, he gets the blame, rightfully so, as would whoever is in office commanding the same policy.
> 
> It's a fact that the overwhelming majority of the world is against current U.S. Policy, don't debate this. Don't twist my point by saying, "no other part of the world has gone violent." My point is clear and precise. The attacks by extremists on other parts of the world have nothing to do with, again, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE WORLD THAT DISLIKES CURRENT U.S. POLICY.
> 
> Finally, you claim the small minority gets violent while the majority has the same views but does not get violent. The majority of ARABS, as well as the overwhelming majority of the world, have not taken violent action. DO NOT GENERALIZE ARABS, as they have the same dislike as the world community.
Click to expand...

 Word up..Moe


----------



## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Please don't get me wrong.. I beleive that what we did to those prisoners was wrong. But in terms of scale... What they do to us is FAR FAR worse, and to compare them is ridiculous.
> 
> The difference between America and muslim fundamentalists is, as you put it, ACCOUNTABILITY. We accept responsibility and apoligize for our inhumane actions. They purposely commit them, and LOVE IT when others do the same.


 I'll assume "they" means Al-queda. Not all Arabs.


----------



## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> kouma said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this fuss because one person died?
> 
> Other than the discraceful images of iraqi prisoners, did you forget how many of those prisoners died "naturally?". It wasn't only abuse and taking photos, it was beating to death, and killing that was happening in those jails. And now again, everyone is crying because one person got beheaded. Frankly I'd rather be beheaded then tortured to death.
> 
> Also what about that apache video of killing three innocent iraqis and making swiss cheese out of their bodies? is that better than beheading one person?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I missed the news articles referencing the death by beating and torture. I wasn't aware that this happened. Can you please link them?
> 
> I'd also like to have the link to the articles referring to the Apache that killed 3 Iraqi civilians, as this one is news to me as well. However, going on what is generally the case, it was probably had a reason, or it was an accident or case of mistaken identity. If this is indeed true, I'd like to point out that a killing of that type does not compare to the kidnapping and decapitation that we are all talking about. Those people kidnapped a man they knew to be american, they forced him to speak in front of a camera, and they then made a show of using a knife to cut off his head. They then posted the video for the world to see. This SICKENS me, and DESERVES the uproar it has recieved.
Click to expand...

 No one is arguing otherwise. Yet for some reason, you've taken an argumentative stance. How come?


----------



## kouma

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> kouma said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this fuss because one person died?
> 
> Other than the discraceful images of iraqi prisoners, did you forget how many of those prisoners died "naturally?". It wasn't only abuse and taking photos, it was beating to death, and killing that was happening in those jails. And now again, everyone is crying because one person got beheaded. Frankly I'd rather be beheaded then tortured to death.
> 
> Also what about that apache video of killing three innocent iraqis and making swiss cheese out of their bodies? is that better than beheading one person?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I missed the news articles referencing the death by beating and torture. I wasn't aware that this happened. Can you please link them?
> 
> I'd also like to have the link to the articles referring to the Apache that killed 3 Iraqi civilians, as this one is news to me as well. However, going on what is generally the case, it was probably had a reason, or it was an accident or case of mistaken identity. If this is indeed true, I'd like to point out that a killing of that type does not compare to the kidnapping and decapitation that we are all talking about. Those people kidnapped a man they knew to be american, they forced him to speak in front of a camera, and they then made a show of using a knife to cut off his head. They then posted the video for the world to see. This SICKENS me, and DESERVES the uproar it has recieved.
Click to expand...

 There is a lot that you don't know then, because if you found that sickening then you should check the available and publicly accessible truths of what is going on to iraqi children, woman, and man. CNN had the news of one american killed in its HEADLINES!!! but the thousands of iraqis killed, raped, etc. this you never head in CNN and etc biased news stations.

For example, the amount of US personell killed since the war began (more than a year ago) IS LESS than the number of IRAQIES KILLED ONLY THIS MONTH!!! yep only this month.

What does that tell you?


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't get me wrong.. I beleive that what we did to those prisoners was wrong. But in terms of scale... What they do to us is FAR FAR worse, and to compare them is ridiculous.
> 
> The difference between America and muslim fundamentalists is, as you put it, ACCOUNTABILITY. We accept responsibility and apoligize for our inhumane actions. They purposely commit them, and LOVE IT when others do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll assume "they" means Al-queda. Not all Arabs.
Click to expand...

 "they" Means fundamentalist extremists. This includes Al Quada.


----------



## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't get me wrong.. I beleive that what we did to those prisoners was wrong. But in terms of scale... What they do to us is FAR FAR worse, and to compare them is ridiculous.
> 
> The difference between America and muslim fundamentalists is, as you put it, ACCOUNTABILITY. We accept responsibility and apoligize for our inhumane actions. They purposely commit them, and LOVE IT when others do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll assume "they" means Al-queda. Not all Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "they" Means fundamentalist extremists. This includes Al Quada.
Click to expand...

 Thanks for not GENERALIZING, my point has been made.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

kouma said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kouma said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this fuss because one person died?
> 
> Other than the discraceful images of iraqi prisoners, did you forget how many of those prisoners died "naturally?". It wasn't only abuse and taking photos, it was beating to death, and killing that was happening in those jails. And now again, everyone is crying because one person got beheaded. Frankly I'd rather be beheaded then tortured to death.
> 
> Also what about that apache video of killing three innocent iraqis and making swiss cheese out of their bodies? is that better than beheading one person?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I missed the news articles referencing the death by beating and torture. I wasn't aware that this happened. Can you please link them?
> 
> I'd also like to have the link to the articles referring to the Apache that killed 3 Iraqi civilians, as this one is news to me as well. However, going on what is generally the case, it was probably had a reason, or it was an accident or case of mistaken identity. If this is indeed true, I'd like to point out that a killing of that type does not compare to the kidnapping and decapitation that we are all talking about. Those people kidnapped a man they knew to be american, they forced him to speak in front of a camera, and they then made a show of using a knife to cut off his head. They then posted the video for the world to see. This SICKENS me, and DESERVES the uproar it has recieved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot that you don't know then, because if you found that sickening then you should check the available and publicly accessible truths of what is going on to iraqi children, woman, and man. CNN had the news of one american killed in its HEADLINES!!! but the thousands of iraqis killed, raped, etc. this you never head in CNN and etc biased news stations.
> 
> For example, the amount of US personell killed since the war began (more than a year ago) IS LESS than the number of IRAQIES KILLED ONLY THIS MONTH!!! yep only this month.
> 
> What does that tell you?
Click to expand...

 Please, I didn't ask you to tell me "Theres a lot you don't know". This is the reply of a child. I merely asked for a link to a credible source collaborating your story. Although I am completely open to the possibility of it happening, quite frankly, I think you made it up.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't get me wrong.. I beleive that what we did to those prisoners was wrong. But in terms of scale... What they do to us is FAR FAR worse, and to compare them is ridiculous.
> 
> The difference between America and muslim fundamentalists is, as you put it, ACCOUNTABILITY. We accept responsibility and apoligize for our inhumane actions. They purposely commit them, and LOVE IT when others do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll assume "they" means Al-queda. Not all Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "they" Means fundamentalist extremists. This includes Al Quada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for not GENERALIZING, my point has been made.
Click to expand...

 I'm sorry, you were right, I did mean Al Quada in that particular instance. (I was referring to who slit the throat of the us civilian). I was thinking of something else when I wrote the the reply saing "they" meant fundamentalist extremists.


----------



## MoeMZA

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Please, I didn't ask you to tell me "Theres a lot you don't know". This is the reply of a child. I merely asked for a link to a credible source collaborating your story. Although I am completely open to the possibility of it happening, quite frankly, I think you made it up.


http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/10/1084041339852.html

"Senator Lindsey Graham, another Republican, who was given a classified briefing, said new photos and videotapes provide evidence of the rape and murder of prisoners."


----------



## kouma

damn making me go through the trouble









http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=5039525

thats for the prisoners killed in the jails.

And the apache video was aried here in our beloved p-fury, many can certify to its authenticity. Or go on msn, and I'll send you the tape.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kouma said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this fuss because one person died?
> 
> Other than the discraceful images of iraqi prisoners, did you forget how many of those prisoners died "naturally?". It wasn't only abuse and taking photos, it was beating to death, and killing that was happening in those jails. And now again, everyone is crying because one person got beheaded. Frankly I'd rather be beheaded then tortured to death.
> 
> Also what about that apache video of killing three innocent iraqis and making swiss cheese out of their bodies? is that better than beheading one person?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I missed the news articles referencing the death by beating and torture. I wasn't aware that this happened. Can you please link them?
> 
> I'd also like to have the link to the articles referring to the Apache that killed 3 Iraqi civilians, as this one is news to me as well. However, going on what is generally the case, it was probably had a reason, or it was an accident or case of mistaken identity. If this is indeed true, I'd like to point out that a killing of that type does not compare to the kidnapping and decapitation that we are all talking about. Those people kidnapped a man they knew to be american, they forced him to speak in front of a camera, and they then made a show of using a knife to cut off his head. They then posted the video for the world to see. This SICKENS me, and DESERVES the uproar it has recieved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is arguing otherwise. Yet for some reason, you've taken an argumentative stance. How come?
Click to expand...

 You must not have read koumas post, because he is in fact 'arguing otherwise'. I did not just take up an argumentative stance for no reason. Strange though, because his quote is within yours.



> Kouma: All this fuss because one person died?


He is subtly saying that it does not deserve this uproar, because he says we commit worse actions that do not recieve attention.

His remark makes it obvious why I took an argumentative stance.


----------



## kouma

search all CNN and I can asure you, you won't find any of this posted on their "trusted my ASS everywhere"

Btw are you guys aware that CNN actually gets aired in the middleeast, but a different version (totally different) than what it is here in north america. What does that tell you about this news station? it is just about tweaking news to the environment where CNN is being watched.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

Thank you for the links. I am ashamed by the actions of those Americans.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

kouma said:


> search all CNN and I can asure you, you won't find any of this posted on their "trusted my ASS everywhere"
> 
> Btw are you guys aware that CNN actually gets aired in the middleeast, but a different version (totally different) than what it is here in north america. What does that tell you about this news station? it is just about tweaking news to the environment where CNN is being watched.


 The same can be said of any news station


----------



## upt1me

Heres another link that may be of interest.

LINK REMOVED. SORRY TOO GORY


----------



## kouma

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Thank you for the links. I am ashamed by the actions of those Americans.


Enrigo, what you said proves you're a person who thinks and is tolerant (the opposite of ignorance). Something to be very proud off, as not a lot carry such morale features.

I just would like to make a point on such news stations (sadly we here in north america all rely on) like CNN, Foxnews, etc. that would only show or air news that would harm the Arabs' (and muslims for that matter) image (by making them look evil, and thus more hated by americans); while hiding the truths behind why such actions were taken by extremests, and implying that these actions reflect all that race.

As a proof: you not knowing what actually happend, and only relying on the bad things commited by iraqis.


----------



## MoeMZA

upt1me said:


> Heres another link that may be of interest.
> 
> LINK REMOVED SORRY.


Here we go again. If you are looking for a reply, reread all my posts.

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

[quote name='upt1me' date='May 11 2004, 07:20 PM'] Heres another link that may be of interest.

Deleted Link...no need for that here.

I just watched this video... 
Very very sad. I'm done talking about this issue


----------



## Grosse Gurke

I am closing this thead. Please do not try to post a link to this incident, it will be deleted.


----------



## Xenon

Im going to close this. It has gotten way out of hand and the posting of the actual video was way out of line.


----------



## Xenon

I am reopening this for discussion.

DO NOT POST THE VIDEO OR LINKS TO IT. They will be deleted immediatly.


----------



## nismo driver

MR HARLEY said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> 
> and that justifies Geneside?
> 
> 
> 
> In my mind it does ...........they are killing our boys left and right , and innocent people ..........
> 
> Its either that or we need to get out of their country .
Click to expand...

 its not like we havent killed any of them, our troops rolled into iraq and killed hundereds of the military and innocent civilians when we "softened" our targets with bombing do you actually think no civilians were killed.. war is a dirty dirty thing and messed up things happen.. i sure half the world is saying we should nuke america so they cant go around bulling everyone and sucking up half the worlds oil for a small fraction of the world population to use...

no offense mr. harley i respect your knowledge of Piranha 's and have seen pictures of your bikes which are quite nice but you definately should think out side of your little world and consider the implication of what your saying before you will realize how wrong your attitude about this is.. seriously first you support going over there and removing sadam and the WMD ghost hunt, then when our troops get killed (it is war people on both sides die) you think we should do something worse than sadam could ever have managed (he didnt have wmd like we do) and nuke the whole region? makes no sense....


----------



## nismo driver

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> The difference between America and muslim fundamentalists is, as you put it, ACCOUNTABILITY. We accept responsibility and apoligize for our inhumane actions. They purposely commit them, and LOVE IT when others do the same.


 they dont just accept responsability for the sick twisted acts they commit they fight over getting credit for it, we kill lots of them but we do it in uniform and dont send videos of it to the news stations to air aka al-jazera, so does that make us better? maybe, probly not.. even if the military sent videos like the one from the apache mowing down iraqis our news stations wouldnt air it anyway.. we are all (most of us) sitting here in the US on our computer discussing what we know from the american media which doesnt give the whole story from both points of view, europeans probly have a better perspective of what is happening on both sides.. it is a war people on both side will commits disgusting acts and lots of people will suffer.. lots of people wanted this war and many people on this forum support it but everyone gets pissed off when things that occure in war are brought to our attention..


----------



## MoeMZA

Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.

Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.

Here are some observations that I have conjured:

1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.

2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.

3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.

4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)

5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)

6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.

7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.

8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.


----------



## MR HARLEY

nismo driver said:


> no offense mr. harley i respect your knowledge of Piranha 's and have seen pictures of your bikes which are quite nice but you definately should think out side of your little world and consider the implication of what your saying before you will realize how wrong your attitude about this is.. seriously first you support going over there and removing sadam and the WMD ghost hunt, then when our troops get killed (it is war people on both sides die) you think we should do something worse than sadam could ever have managed (he didnt have wmd like we do) and nuke the whole region? makes no sense....


wow sure took ya a long time to think about that one :laugh: 
Your just trying to start sh*t where were you a few days ago when I posted that .

My little world?
:laugh::laugh: 
You have no idea...:rock:



> seriously first you support going over there and removing sadam and the WMD ghost hunt, then when our troops get killed (it is war people on both sides die)
> 
> 
> 
> Ok where did you ever see me state this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you think we should do something worse than sadam could ever have managed
> 
> 
> 
> :nod:
> You got to fight fire with fire
> Listen Son Dont tell me anything ...
> My Father is a Vietnam Vet and a retired sherriff and my Grandfather is a WW11 Vet
> I know about being patriotic and loving my country , I grew up with it .
> So dont sit here and blow smoke up my ass about what you think is right ...
> This is a piranha board and if you dont like what I say dont read it ......
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.


 Additionally, apparantly there is an 11 hour gap between the speaking portion of the video, and the execution portion of the video. What happened in these 11 hours?


----------



## nismo driver

MoeMZA said:


> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.


 and apparently mr. berg went to iraq looking for work, he was not actually employeed at teh time he was in iraq and the US military forces advised him to leave that it was not safe prioir to being detained by the iraqi's.. none of this information justifys what was done to him, but some people are just plain stupid and dont know when to just leave


----------



## MoeMZA

nismo driver said:


> and apparently mr. berg went to iraq looking for work, he was not actually employeed at teh time he was in iraq and the US military forces advised him to leave that it was not safe prioir to being detained by the iraqi's.. none of this information justifys what was done to him, but some people are just plain stupid and dont know when to just leave


What you are saying has already been selectively reported by 'our' Media.

My list includes facts that we are not hearing by FOXNEWS or ABCNNBCBS rather from foreign news agencies. Sad.

Obviously, the American media seems to be taking a pro-Gov stance, while ignoring the Berg familys' questions & concerns as evidenced by my list.


----------



## diddye

MoeMZA said:


> nismo driver said:
> 
> 
> 
> and apparently mr. berg went to iraq looking for work, he was not actually employeed at teh time he was in iraq and the US military forces advised him to leave that it was not safe prioir to being detained by the iraqi's.. none of this information justifys what was done to him, but some people are just plain stupid and dont know when to just leave
> 
> 
> 
> What you are saying has already been selectively reported by 'our' Media.
> 
> My list includes facts that we are not hearing by FOXNEWS or ABCNNBCBS rather from foreign news agencies. Sad.
> 
> Obviously, the American media seems to be taking a pro-Gov stance, while ignoring the Berg familys' questions & concerns as evidenced by my list.
Click to expand...

 Well when you say "our media", I started to read al-jazeera and other islamic websites about a month ago and the information given by the US is pretty much what is stated in Al-jeezera. So your claim on that statement is false. And saying other countries aren't biased is a little naive. Each news station is a little biased some way or another.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

The only way to get CLOSE to the full true story (which is impossible) is to read a variety of news sources. Though people can say that the american media is biased, you will definately not find the whole truth in al jazeera either, which is strongly biased. You should take what you read from ANY news source with a grain of salt. On that note, American media is very biased to the liberal democratic left, and negative news coverage of islam is rare (negative news coverage of conservative christians is quite common, in contrast). The amount of negative attention given to the radical islamic terrorist group al quada due to the recent decapitation is rare, as negative attention of our own forces and government is more common. To say that the american media is biased pro-government is the most riduculous thing I have ever heard.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)


Where did you see this? I have been searching and all credible sources I've found have pointed to positive identification of Zarqawi.

Also, even if he does walk with a limp this would not come into play at all in the video. They aren't exactly walking around a whole lot.

sh*t man, lets also not forget that the video was TITLED Sheikh Abu Musab al-Zarqawi slaughters an American infidel with his own hands


----------



## diddye

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you see this? I have been searching and all credible sources I've found have pointed to positive identification of Zarqawi.
> 
> Also, even if he does walk with a limp this would not come into play at all in the video. They aren't exactly walking around a whole lot.
> 
> sh*t man, lets also not forget that the video was TITLED Sheikh Abu Musab al-Zarqawi slaughters an American infidel with his own hands
Click to expand...

 Exactly! And what does it matter if its him or not? Are you trying to pin this on iraqis? Americans? It is staged? The video that is shown is basically men standing and kneeling during the act. They were not parading around in a marathon.


----------



## kouma

MoeMZA said:


> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.


 This is very interesting, thanks for bringing it up.

Maybe it was a way to take the heat off US government for prison scandle and shift all media attention to that incident (making arab, and muslims look bad as usual), i.e. CNN, FOXNEWS had this in their HEADLINES AND FIRST PAGE BREAKING NEWS..wtf? only one guy died, so?


----------



## kouma

Bullsnake said:


> Berg was not a soldier or a civilian employee of the Pentagon, the State Department said.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did this guy come from?
> 
> Typical cowardly, sadistic Islamic terrorist. Cutting a bound man's throat and filming it. That in itself is an act of terrorism.
Click to expand...

 Whats wrong bullsnake? cat ate you tongue. I don't see you attacking the arabs and muslims this time as much, maybe you don't have an argument? or because it might be possible that Israel actually performed this "cowardly, sadistic *JEWISH* terrorist" act, just like all its cowardly assassinations and behind the scenes and media actions/killings.


----------



## diddye

kouma said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very interesting, thanks for bringing it up.
> 
> Maybe it was a way to take the heat off US government for prison scandle and shift all media attention to that incident (making arab, and muslims look bad as usual), i.e. CNN, FOXNEWS had this in their HEADLINES AND FIRST PAGE BREAKING NEWS..wtf? only one guy died, so?
Click to expand...

 Only one guy? You are so dense. I dont care if its one guy two or 100...if this was an iraqi or another arab that was decapitated like this by an american, I bet you wouldn't have said what you jsut did. News will still be headlines no matter how many are hurt as long as it grabs attention.


----------



## kouma

diddye said:


> kouma said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very interesting, thanks for bringing it up.
> 
> Maybe it was a way to take the heat off US government for prison scandle and shift all media attention to that incident (making arab, and muslims look bad as usual), i.e. CNN, FOXNEWS had this in their HEADLINES AND FIRST PAGE BREAKING NEWS..wtf? only one guy died, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only one guy? You are so dense. I dont care if its one guy two or 100...if this was an iraqi or another arab that was decapitated like this by an american, I bet you wouldn't have said what you jsut did. News will still be headlines no matter how many are hurt as long as it grabs attention.
Click to expand...

 How many iraqis die by the bombs being dropped and clashes? and even in the prison after being tortured do you see this anywhere on CNN? nevermind the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).

Tell me if what I am saying is not true?

FYI the number of US killed since the war began (more than a year ago) is LESS than the number of iraqis KILLED ONLY THIS MONTH!!


----------



## diddye

So more iraqis are killed then americans...so what? If an american is flying an f-16 and bombs a group of insurgents...how many americans die vs iraqis? 0-10? America is more advanced and coordinated in their attacks. Of course they will kill more iraqis. And about the civlians dying....its a WAR! Do you know what that means? Blame the civlian deaths on the iraqis who choose to shoot their weapons and then hide behind children and families. Blame the iraqis that hide weapons in places of peace like mosques and build bombs in apartments where families live. This is a war and just because they hide behind things does not mean that americans have bombs that can distinguish between an insurgent and civilian. your arguements are true where more iraqis die but please look into why things happen. Even the iraqis are agaisnt the uprising in najaf and neighboring cities. Dont believe me? Check out al-jeezera.com. That rogue cleric is causing the deaths in iraq. the civlians in the city want him to leave. I even read in an article posted in al-jeezera that said that an anti-sadr rally was a demonstrated in iraq and his men fired weapons in the air to disperse the crowd.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

kouma said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Berg was not a soldier or a civilian employee of the Pentagon, the State Department said.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did this guy come from?
> 
> Typical cowardly, sadistic Islamic terrorist. Cutting a bound man's throat and filming it. That in itself is an act of terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats wrong bullsnake? cat ate you tongue. I don't see you attacking the arabs and muslims this time as much, maybe you don't have an argument? or because it might be possible that Israel actually performed this "cowardly, sadistic *JEWISH* terrorist" act, just like all its cowardly assassinations and behind the scenes and media actions/killings.
Click to expand...

 Ok, please rephrase this to clarify... Because it seems like you are saying that it was Israel that killed Mr. Berg. If you are in fact saying this, I think you need a reality check... This outlandish claim is ridiculous for so many reasons, including the fact that Mr. Berg was jewish himself


----------



## Denver

Just my opinion of course, but dead is dead. We kill by the thousands, we kill innocents, and obviously we torture. Obviously they are gonna take any chance they can get to kill our people as well. What happened to this guy is a tragedy. But dead is dead, apologizing for what we do doesn't change the facts, we are no better than them and them no better than us. All human beings, but obviously too stupid to stop this circle of violence. The worst thing is, we try to justify that what we do is okay.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

> Kouma: This is very interesting, thanks for bringing it up.
> 
> Maybe it was a way to take the heat off US government for prison scandle and shift all media attention to that incident (making arab, and muslims look bad as usual), i.e. CNN, FOXNEWS had this in their HEADLINES AND FIRST PAGE BREAKING NEWS..wtf? only one guy died, so?


I can't help but shake my head and feel sorry for you when I read this. You say its nothing because it was only one man who died... Did you ever think that it was the WAY HE DIED that is causing all the attention? Of course it was front-page news!!! A website with strong al quada links posted a video of an al quada leader brutally murdering an innocent civillian, then terribly mutilating his body, all the while screaming that they were doing it in gods name!!! How dare you claim that the US media is trying to give Islam a bad name!? The video is of muslim men brutually murdering and mutilating in the name of islam. THAT is what is inciting rage, NOT the fact that the media reports this. The media does not comment on the video blaming it on muslims at all!!! 
Your comments show much ignorance on your part.


----------



## Judazzz

Denver said:


> Just my opinion of course, but dead is dead. We kill by the thousands, we kill innocents, and obviously we torture. Obviously they are gonna take any chance they can get to kill our people as well. What happened to this guy is a tragedy. But dead is dead, apologizing for what we do doesn't change the facts, we are no better than them and them no better than us. All human beings, but obviously too stupid to stop this circle of violence. The worst thing is, we try to justify that what we do is okay.


 Couldn't have said it better myself









Both parties are equally guilty of atrocities: instead of blaming each other, it's about time mankind started to use brains instead of bullets and find other ways to solve this - if both parties continue as they do now, the whole conflict will end up as a second Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and no one benefits from that...


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

> the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).
> 
> Tell me if what I am saying is not true?


What you are saying is not true. It is far from the truth. Obviously you don't know anything about American media, because if you did, you would know that, other than FOXnews, it would go to any length to make the American governments excursion into Iraq bad news. The media here would LOVE to post anything they can to make the war look bad and the Iraqis the good ones. Thats why they are loving the scandal at the prison. 
But the difference between you and the media is that they are better informed than you. They are imbedded in the action, and see it first hand. They are right there when Marines are under attack day and night, and realize the Marines have to fight back. Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc). The civilians that are dead there are due to various thing, but one of them IS NOT that the US marines go and SEEK THEM OUT to kill them. This is in contrast to the terrorist forces that TARGET CIVILIANS.


----------



## Denver

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).
> 
> Tell me if what I am saying is not true?
> 
> 
> 
> Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc).
Click to expand...

 Sorry but I think you are talking out of your ass here. Where do you get this info from?


----------



## diddye

Denver said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).
> 
> Tell me if what I am saying is not true?
> 
> 
> 
> Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but I think you are talking out of your ass here. Where do you get this info from?
Click to expand...

 Theres a word called insurgents. Look it up.


----------



## MoeMZA

MoeMZA said:


> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.


Funny how all are assuming the info is from AL-JAZ. The point of this list, if you decide to actually use my words, and not assume, is that WORLD news agencies are picking apart this video. There are many RELEVANT POINTS brought up that American Media is ignoring.

Another addition to the list:

9. CIA is now saying man who performed execution (Zarqawi) is wearing a Gold ring. In Islam, if I'm correct, gold is forbidden to be worn by men. Zarqawi is said to be an 'extreme', 'hardcore', 'strict' muslim, yet he's wearing gold.

Again, this fact is just another that's being ignored by American Media. And to me, this list easily raises questions to actually who is really in this video.


----------



## illnino

thats just sick, they know where to hurt us the most. maybe shooting them would be better, but hacking the head off is just wrong.


----------



## Denver

diddye said:


> Denver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).
> 
> Tell me if what I am saying is not true?
> 
> 
> 
> Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but I think you are talking out of your ass here. Where do you get this info from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Theres a word called insurgents. Look it up.
Click to expand...

 I am familiar with the term. Apparently you believe it stands for any Iraqi killed by Americans?


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how all are assuming the info is from AL-JAZ. The point of this list, if you decide to actually use my words, and not assume, is that WORLD news agencies are picking apart this video. There are many RELEVANT POINTS brought up that American Media is ignoring.
> 
> Another addition to the list:
> 
> 9. CIA is now saying man who performed execution (Zarqawi) is wearing a Gold ring. In Islam, if I'm correct, gold is forbidden to be worn by men. Zarqawi is said to be an 'extreme', 'hardcore', 'strict' muslim, yet he's wearing gold.
> 
> Again, this fact is just another that's being ignored by American Media. And to me, this list easily raises questions to actually who is really in this video.
Click to expand...

 Where are you getting this info? You say its 'world' news, but... what sources? I've been searching and have not found a lot of the stuff you are claiming.

Also, what exactly are you getting at? The video was posted on a website strongly linked with Al Quaeda, and the title said it was an Al Quaeda leader... You are the only one questioning the fact


----------



## MoeMZA

I think you need NEW news sources. This is exactly my point. Don't just look at American Media.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> I think you need NEW news sources. This is exactly my point. Don't just look at American Media.


 Again... WHAT SOURCES are you talking about?! How many times do I have to ask? I never said I only read American sources... I have searched many news sites (foreign) and NONE have mentioned any of those facts.


----------



## diddye

MoeMZA said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since this thread has been rightfully reopened, I will add an additional $.02.
> 
> Around the world, news agencies are analyzing the horrific video and it's circumstances. There seems to be holes in U.S.'s version of the situation.
> 
> Here are some observations that I have conjured:
> 
> 1. The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation.
> 
> 2. The family of slain American Nick Berg had claimed the U.S. government detained him just before militants kidnapped him. But the FBI says Iraqi police detained Nick Berg, and the Iraqi police say they did not.
> 
> 3. Iraqis are condemning this execution. And they're saying these are foreigners because dialect of arabic in the video is not Iraqi.
> 
> 4. The claim that Zarqawi is the actual man who performed this execution is being refuted by expert Arab linguists and determined the accent is not Jordanian. (Zarqawi is a Native Jordanian.)
> 
> 5. There is no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. According to an Arab translator, "It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing." (He says Al-qaed is the word used)
> 
> 6. Weapons experts have identified the AK-47 carried by one man as the "Gilal", the Israeli-made variant of that weapon.
> 
> 7. Zarqawi has an artifical leg and walks with a limp, yet this is not apparent in the video.
> 
> 8. The Berg family sued the U.S. Government because he was being detained in Iraq without due process and his civil rights were ignored. He was released the very next day.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how all are assuming the info is from AL-JAZ. The point of this list, if you decide to actually use my words, and not assume, is that WORLD news agencies are picking apart this video. There are many RELEVANT POINTS brought up that American Media is ignoring.
> 
> Another addition to the list:
> 
> 9. CIA is now saying man who performed execution (Zarqawi) is wearing a Gold ring. In Islam, if I'm correct, gold is forbidden to be worn by men. Zarqawi is said to be an 'extreme', 'hardcore', 'strict' muslim, yet he's wearing gold.
> 
> Again, this fact is just another that's being ignored by American Media. And to me, this list easily raises questions to actually who is really in this video.
Click to expand...

 You can look at rings or accents to try and see who the killer was, but the CIA used voice recognition technology...kinda like a fingerprint for the voice. I'd much rather trust that then somebody wearing a ring or lack of a limp as evidence. Besides, why does this all matter? Are you refuting the CIA and arabs claim it was him all along? And if not, who are you suggesting did this act?


----------



## diddye

Denver said:


> diddye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).
> 
> Tell me if what I am saying is not true?
> 
> 
> 
> Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but I think you are talking out of your ass here. Where do you get this info from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Theres a word called insurgents. Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am familiar with the term. Apparently you believe it stands for any Iraqi killed by Americans?
Click to expand...

 Did i say all iraqis? No I didn't...look at who you quoted-Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc). Key word is "most"....is that all? Looks to me you are the one talking out of your ass.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

> You can look at rings or accents to try and see who the killer was, but the CIA used voice recognition technology...kinda like a fingerprint for the voice. I'd much rather trust that then somebody wearing a ring or lack of a limp as evidence. Besides, why does this all matter? Are you refuting the CIA and arabs claim it was him all along? And if not, who are you suggesting did this act?


Exactly. I think that Moe might be setting up to say that this video is a conspiracy. I've still been searching world news sources and none report any of the things that Moe has said. It makes me suspicious


----------



## Denver

diddye said:


> Denver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diddye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denver said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the headline news as one is more important that 1000'a of iraqis dead (AS long as it makes iraqis look bad).
> 
> Tell me if what I am saying is not true?
> 
> 
> 
> Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry but I think you are talking out of your ass here. Where do you get this info from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Theres a word called insurgents. Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am familiar with the term. Apparently you believe it stands for any Iraqi killed by Americans?:laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did i say all iraqis? No I didn't...look at who you quoted-Of those dead in Iraq, most had it coming to them (directly fight the marines, defy them during moments of critical security, plot against the coalition, etc). Key word is "most"....is that all? Looks to me you are the one talking out of your ass.
Click to expand...

You prove my point for me. "Most", where is the proof that most Iraqi's killed were so called insurgents?
And no you didn't say all Iraqis, but if that's not what you meant, then explain to me what you meant by "There's a word called insurgents"


----------



## Doviiman

Well gentilmen if i were still active duty and i was over there(if i didnt have a young family,i would be) i would slice everyone of those greasey,nasty mentaly ill fuckers throats.Lets not forget,they started this!!I say kick,stomp,stab and piss on them all!!Then you get some of those nasty bastards that live here bitching and complaining about how the Iraq prisoners are being treated,well i say tough sh*t!!Dont like it go back to the desert!!


----------



## Denver

Doviiman said:


> Well gentilmen if i were still active duty and i was over there(if i didnt have a young family,i would be) i would slice everyone of those greasey,nasty mentaly ill fuckers throats.Lets not forget,they started this!!I say kick,stomp,stab and piss on them all!!Then you get some of those nasty bastards that live here bitching and complaining about how the Iraq prisoners are being treated,well i say tough sh*t!!Dont like it go back to the desert!!


 that's the problem solving attitude


----------



## Peacock

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> The difference between Americans and Muslim fundamentalist terrorists is that a few americans merely humiliated their victims for a short time, but they walked away from the day alive to live the rest of their life. The humiliated were also CRIMINALS in the first place. These americans, btw, are looked DOWN upon by the rest of americans, as acting INCORRECTLY. The damned muslims forced an INNOCENT CIVILIAN to speak about his family on camera, before knocking him down and painfully cutting his throat until the head was completely severed, parading it around on tape. The rest of the muslim fundamentalists (not just terrorists) CHEER this act rather than shame it. There will be no peace as long as muslim fundamentalists are raised in their same culture of hate, just as there was no peace for african americans (still isn't in some circles) until america shaped up and changed its culture of repression, where kids were raised to hate.


 you are correct.

I vote for Genocide.

when i see spectaters joyfully obessing over a mutilation of a human in the streets, Genocide is the only word that comes to mind. Do you realy care if these people live? their entire religion/life is about hate and battling for the holy land. they dont make new technological advances of any sort. these people are worthless to society in a whole and threaten the wellbeing of others.

that land could be put to better use if Americans or some other country ruled it.

go ahead, flame all you want, but deep down inside i doubt any one of you care about these animals. You say you do, but i dont think you would actualy give your life to help them or save them if they needed you to. Just think if we bombed.. in 5 years this would all be over. Americans would rule and our gas prices would go down.. other countrys would see what we have done and NOT mess around, or design a plot to take out the USA... lol

would we be different then Hitler? in some ways yes in others no.. we are exterminating a race that has forever and WILL forever threatened modern day society. this is a good thing.. on the other hand.. we have to kill millions innocent people. EVEN if we didnt kill all the innocent people, their children would grow up and be terrorist.. its their life style.

flame on but i cant help my feelings.. these people have overwhelmed my tolerance.


----------



## Denver

Peacock what you said pretty much sums it up. Many Americans see these people as only 'animals' or 'insurgents' or 'terrorists'. Not as human beings who also have families and loved ones and things that are important to them. Can you not see that they also could look at Americans as 'animals'? We don't care if they die so why should they care if we die??? I do care about us as well as them, but that's because I realize that these are all people we are talking about, not just Marines or Army or so called Terrorists. Genocide isn't gonna happen so you can all dream about nuking them all you want. Isn't it sad that you list gas prices and scaring other countries into submission as the reasoning behind why you would support exterminating people???
Pathetic in my opinion.


----------



## Doviiman

Denver said:


> Peacock what you said pretty much sums it up. Many Americans see these people as only 'animals' or 'insurgents' or 'terrorists'. Not as human beings who also have families and loved ones and things that are important to them. Can you not see that they also could look at Americans as 'animals'? We don't care if they die so why should they care if we die??? I do care about us as well as them, but that's because I realize that these are all people we are talking about, not just Marines or Army or so called Terrorists. Genocide isn't gonna happen so you can all dream about nuking them all you want. Isn't it sad that you list gas prices and scaring other countries into submission as the reasoning behind why you would support exterminating people???
> Pathetic in my opinion.


 These so called "Human beings",are the same animals that cheered our soldiers on when they marched into thier towns,shook their hands,then when our GIs turned their backs they shot at them.Ive heard and read many of the dispicable actions that these people have pulled on our GIs from my nephew who is over there right now.What about them hanging those poor burned and charred dead contracters from that bridge.Im not saying what our people did in that prison is right,but at least they were not de heading them or burning them or hanging them.And last but not least...who started this whole thing??


----------



## crazyklown89

I saw the video.....I feel so damn horrible...

That was fuckin....terrible....damn I hope those men burn for all eternity.


----------



## Denver

Doviiman said:


> Denver said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peacock what you said pretty much sums it up. Many Americans see these people as only 'animals' or 'insurgents' or 'terrorists'. Not as human beings who also have families and loved ones and things that are important to them. Can you not see that they also could look at Americans as 'animals'? We don't care if they die so why should they care if we die??? I do care about us as well as them, but that's because I realize that these are all people we are talking about, not just Marines or Army or so called Terrorists. Genocide isn't gonna happen so you can all dream about nuking them all you want. Isn't it sad that you list gas prices and scaring other countries into submission as the reasoning behind why you would support exterminating people???
> Pathetic in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> These so called "Human beings",are the same animals that cheered our soldiers on when they marched into thier towns,shook their hands,then when our GIs turned their backs they shot at them.Ive heard and read many of the dispicable actions that these people have pulled on our GIs from my nephew who is over there right now.What about them hanging those poor burned and charred dead contracters from that bridge.Im not saying what our people did in that prison is right,but at least they were not de heading them or burning them or hanging them.And last but not least...who started this whole thing??
Click to expand...

 Who started this? If referring to the war on Iraq then the US (we) did.
Tell me, do we not cheer on our armies killing their people with our tax dollars and support for the government?
I'm not saying what they did was right, but I'm also not the one sitting here saying Americans are high and mighty and what we did was right. If going by sheer numbers, we've killed many more people than they have, regardless of how those killings were committed, and I'm sure some of their innocent dead have suffered as well.


----------



## diddye

Im against genocide...you can't blame 100% of the iraqis for this probblem and it probb wont end either. It is simply too cruel. However, this is what the war is abbout...maybe in 5-10 yrs, iraq will be a beacon of light in the middleeast.


----------



## kouma

Peacock said:


> I vote for Genocide.
> 
> when i see spectaters joyfully obessing over a mutilation of a human in the streets, Genocide is the only word that comes to mind. Do you realy care if these people live? their entire religion/life is about hate and battling for the holy land. they dont make new technological advances of any sort. these people are worthless to society in a whole and threaten the wellbeing of others.
> 
> that land could be put to better use if Americans or some other country ruled it.
> 
> go ahead, flame all you want, but deep down inside i doubt any one of you care about these animals. You say you do, but i dont think you would actualy give your life to help them or save them if they needed you to. Just think if we bombed.. in 5 years this would all be over. Americans would rule and our gas prices would go down.. other countrys would see what we have done and NOT mess around, or design a plot to take out the USA... lol
> 
> would we be different then Hitler? in some ways yes in others no.. we are exterminating a race that has forever and WILL forever threatened modern day society. this is a good thing.. on the other hand.. we have to kill millions innocent people. EVEN if we didnt kill all the innocent people, their children would grow up and be terrorist.. its their life style.
> 
> flame on but i cant help my feelings.. these people have overwhelmed my tolerance.


 You are voting to exterminate a race yet you call them terrorists. People like you should be exterminated from this life and forever (you, your family, and whatever follows from the same trash).


----------



## Judazzz

Blaming *all* Iraqi's for the actions of a few (that excludes the recent decaptitation - that was Al Qaeda) is the same as saying *all* Americans can be held accountable for what happened in the Abu Ghraib prison, all the many tens of thousands of innocent civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere - it's as simple as that: no difference...

btw: what's with all the commotion about the decapitation? It's war, sh*t happens: deal with it... (I've heard the exact same argument from those that try to justify or downtalk what the Americans did to prisoners...)

And I agree: those that argue genocide is acceptable should be kneecapped and shot in the head - there's no place for people like that in this world, imo.


----------



## diddye

Judazzz said:


> Blaming *all* Iraqi's for the actions of a few (that excludes the recent decaptitation - that was Al Qaeda) is the same as saying *all* Americans can be held accountable for what happened in the Abu Ghraib prison, all the many tens of thousands of innocent civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere - it's as simple as that: no difference...
> 
> btw: what's with all the commotion about the decapitation? It's war, sh*t happens: deal with it... (I've heard the exact same argument from those that try to justify or downtalk what the Americans did to prisoners...)
> 
> And I agree: those that argue genocide is acceptable should be kneecapped and shot in the head - there's no place for people like that in this world, imo.


 Haha thats so ironic. This is coming from peace-loving "impartial" people. You guys are saying thats so bad when "your whole family and its whole line" should be killed off. You try to sound so compassionate and yet you say basically the same thing to them.


----------



## chiefkyle

I am not going to argue the pro/cons of genicide. It is wrong to kill/liquidate a whole race, ask Hitler. With that said.....

Sit in your 100 thousand dollar home, crank up the volume on your nice computer, download this file *What part of DO NOT LINK THIS f*cking VIDEO do you not understand....Link removed by GG* and watch (in Full-Screen) what the Extremists would do to *YOU* (a civilian non-combatant) simply because you are American.

Then preach you bullshit about Extremists are justified. Humiliation is better then mutilation.


----------



## Jewelz

chiefkyle said:


> I am not going to argue the pro/cons of genicide. It is wrong to kill/liquidate a whole race, ask Hitler. With that said.....
> 
> Sit in your 100 thousand dollar home, crank up the volume on your nice computer, download this file and watch (in Full-Screen) what the Extremists would do to *YOU* (a civilian non-combatant) simply because you are American.
> 
> Then preach you bullshit about Extremists are justified. Humiliation is better then mutilation.


I will have to agree with mr. Yegermeister here

I am tired of worrying about being politically correct. To me right now it's just us vs. them and I'd rather kill a billion of them than suffer another single American casualty


----------



## Sam

I have a question to those who are in favour of genocide...what exactly are you pissed off about that makes you want revenge?

If I'm not mistaken...the decapitation was an act of revenge itself for the abu ghraib prison torture.

So if all of you are so strongly in favour of revenge...then the decapitation shouldn't really bother you that much...?

Why is it acceptable for you to destroy a whole race in revenge...but not okay for them to slit a throat?

You basically have the same morals and ideals as those you're against. If they're animals...you're no better.


----------



## diddye

Sam said:


> I have a question to those who are in favour of genocide...what exactly are you pissed off about that makes you want revenge?
> 
> If I'm not mistaken...the decapitation was an act of revenge itself for the abu ghraib prison torture.
> 
> So if all of you are so strongly in favour of revenge...then the decapitation shouldn't really bother you that much...?
> 
> Why is it acceptable for you to destroy a whole race in revenge...but not okay for them to slit a throat?
> 
> You basically have the same morals and ideals as those you're against. If they're animals...you're no better.


 It was masked as an act of revenge. If there is no al queda relationship in iraq, why would a terrorist enact revenge against iraqi people? Its like saying mexico will kill somebody b/c somebody in iraq killed an american. This was just an excuse to kill another person. Remember when saddam was in power in iraq? He said "i am fighting back for the rights of the palestinians"....well then palastine responded "do not associate us w/ your fight".


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez

diddye said:


> Sam said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question to those who are in favour of genocide...what exactly are you pissed off about that makes you want revenge?
> 
> If I'm not mistaken...the decapitation was an act of revenge itself for the abu ghraib prison torture.
> 
> So if all of you are so strongly in favour of revenge...then the decapitation shouldn't really bother you that much...?
> 
> Why is it acceptable for you to destroy a whole race in revenge...but not okay for them to slit a throat?
> 
> You basically have the same morals and ideals as those you're against. If they're animals...you're no better.
> 
> 
> 
> It was masked as an act of revenge. If there is no al queda relationship in iraq, why would a terrorist enact revenge against iraqi people? Its like saying mexico will kill somebody b/c somebody in iraq killed an american. This was just an excuse to kill another person. Remember when saddam was in power in iraq? He said "i am fighting back for the rights of the palestinians"....well then palastine responded "do not associate us w/ your fight".
Click to expand...









Exactly. That innocent man didn't have anything to do with the prison scandal, "revenge" is a highly innapproprate word. If what they say in the video is true, that they tried to barter for several prisoners in return for Mr. Berg, than that means that we are on the right track... meaning we have the right guys in custody over there. The video was a way for those terrorists to gain support, as contradictory as we see it... I personally see it as a mistake, because it has created so much outrage... but other muslim extremists who hate america but don't take action are going to see that video and think to themselves... Hey, they took action against the infedels!! Where do I sign up? That was the goal of the video


----------



## Guest

The situation is hopeless. All the Arabs hate us and enjoy when we are killed.

We can do no right. No sacrifice we can make will ever please them. We freed them of an evil dictator, spent hundreds of billions of dollars on rebuilding, lost hundreds of our own trops; and they still hate us and always will.
I think this picture is relevant:


----------



## mechanic

Bullsnake said:


> The situation is hopeless. All the Arabs hate us and enjoy when we are killed.
> 
> We can do no right. No sacrifice we can make will ever please them. We freed them of an evil dictator, spent hundreds of billions of dollars on rebuilding, lost hundreds of our own trops; and they still hate us and always will.


 I agree.
I also disagree with people who say the United States started this.
If I remember correctly, didn't the USA give Iraq the option.Either allow weapons inspection and hand over Saddam or this will happen?
Seems to me they got what they chose for themselves.
If a cop turns on the lights and asks me to pull over I have a choice.I can pull over, or I can punch the pedal to the floor.I am rational and realise what punching it would result in, some people however don't think that far ahead.
Later
Eric


----------



## Alexraptor

these threads are really starting to bug me, it seems like every reply almost is Racistic, All arabs? that definatly in my opinion is Racisit talk


----------



## nismo driver

mechanic said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> 
> The situation is hopeless. All the Arabs hate us and enjoy when we are killed.
> 
> We can do no right. No sacrifice we can make will ever please them. We freed them of an evil dictator, spent hundreds of billions of dollars on rebuilding, lost hundreds of our own trops; and they still hate us and always will.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> I also disagree with people who say the United States started this.
> If I remember correctly, didn't the USA give Iraq the option.Either allow weapons inspection and hand over Saddam or this will happen?
> Seems to me they got what they chose for themselves.
> If a cop turns on the lights and asks me to pull over I have a choice.I can pull over, or I can punch the pedal to the floor.I am rational and realise what punching it would result in, some people however don't think that far ahead.
> Later
> Eric
Click to expand...

 I agree too...

but do you think if china, russia and India demanded that we allowed weapons inspectors into the US to reveal over weapons development or hand over bush that we would just say ok and give into either of those option, we currently posses and are developing the world most advanced stock pile of WMD.. and we have invaded a soveriegn nation unprovoked without the blessing of the international community... im not defending saddam but you really need to look at everything from both points of view..


----------



## mechanic

nismo driver said:


> mechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> 
> The situation is hopeless. All the Arabs hate us and enjoy when we are killed.
> 
> We can do no right. No sacrifice we can make will ever please them. We freed them of an evil dictator, spent hundreds of billions of dollars on rebuilding, lost hundreds of our own trops; and they still hate us and always will.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> I also disagree with people who say the United States started this.
> If I remember correctly, didn't the USA give Iraq the option.Either allow weapons inspection and hand over Saddam or this will happen?
> Seems to me they got what they chose for themselves.
> If a cop turns on the lights and asks me to pull over I have a choice.I can pull over, or I can punch the pedal to the floor.I am rational and realise what punching it would result in, some people however don't think that far ahead.
> Later
> Eric
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree too...
> 
> but do you think if china, russia and India demanded that we allowed weapons inspectors into the US to reveal over weapons development or hand over bush that we would just say ok and give into either of those option, we currently posses and are developing the world most advanced stock pile of WMD.. and we have invaded a soveriegn nation unprovoked without the blessing of the international community... im not defending saddam but you really need to look at everything from both points of view..
Click to expand...

 I hear what you are saying here, I really do but the US was just trying to (obstensibly) enforce UN resolutions that WERE supported by NATO.
It was a done deal.No UN resolution has ever stated that the US would have to 
submit to this.
later
E


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## Enriqo_Suavez

> I hear what you are saying here, I really do but the US was just trying to (obstensibly) enforce UN resolutions that WERE supported by NATO.
> It was a done deal.No UN resolution has ever stated that the US would have to
> submit to this.
> later
> E


Yup its not like the US asked Iraq and saddam to let inspectors in out of the blue... Inspections were required to ensure dismantling of weapons that it was KNOWN saddam had after the gulf war. .... People don't seem to understand that the burdon of proof was ON IRAQ to show taht they DISMANTLED their weapons.... The burdon of proof was not on the UN to prove that they still had them. However Saddam defied UN orders and inspections... so for several years, they halted... The US then kicked it up a notch.. Inspections would continue... People seem to think that this continuation of inspections was the beginning of the whole story!! So the controversy comes into play when uninformed people think that we just moved on into Iraq out of the blue... Iraq defied inspections once, and did not follow through the second time around either. The UN was going to continue to allow Saddam to disobey, but the US decided that they couldnt let him do that anymore. Thus, the war.


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## mechanic

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> I hear what you are saying here, I really do but the US was just trying to (obstensibly) enforce UN resolutions that WERE supported by NATO.
> It was a done deal.No UN resolution has ever stated that the US would have to
> submit to this.
> later
> E
> 
> 
> 
> Yup its not like the US asked Iraq and saddam to let inspectors in out of the blue... Inspections were required to ensure dismantling of weapons that it was KNOWN saddam had after the gulf war. .... People don't seem to understand that the burdon of proof was ON IRAQ to show taht they DISMANTLED their weapons.... The burdon of proof was not on the UN to prove that they still had them. However Saddam defied UN orders and inspections... so for several years, they halted... The US then kicked it up a notch.. Inspections would continue... People seem to think that this continuation of inspections was the beginning of the whole story!! So the controversy comes into play when uninformed people think that we just moved on into Iraq out of the blue... Iraq defied inspections once, and did not follow through the second time around either. The UN was going to continue to allow Saddam to disobey, but the US decided that they couldnt let him do that anymore. Thus, the war.
Click to expand...

 Precisely!


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## chiefkyle

Hey, someone has to be big brother and bust the kids asses, why not let it be the US.









BTW. This Topic will not make any sence, why? Because we don't completly, if at all, understand how extremist (extremists = terrorist that rule by fear) think. Just like they don't understand our way of life.

Example: Our Country is invaded by German Nazis. Our army is captured or killed. And now the Germans want a Dictatorship instead of Democricy.

What would you do? You would do anything you possibly could to get rid of the Germans right? God would say, take your country back at *ALL* cost. If this means give up your own life, then do.

Now you can kind of understand what some of these guys are thinking.

(This post is in no way condoning terrorist. So no flamming replies please. Just think about it.)


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## chiefkyle

chiefkyle said:


> What part of DO NOT LINK THIS f*cking VIDEO do you not understand....Link removed by GG


 Wow GG. I never heard you say, " DO NOT LINK THIS f*cking VIDEO". You didn't have to act like that. Like I put in my SIG, I will remove it if you want me to.


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## Peacock

this kind of sh*t will not stop... like you said....

unless.. they are all gone.


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## v4p0r

Personally if im walking down the street and i hear someone say "Praise Allah" they arent gonna be walking away. Muslims are by the word of their religion conditioned to be terrorists. "take back the holy land at any cost" Is the core of their beliefs. I personally dont think we should Kill all arabs. Killing all the muslims will do just fine. And i mean all children women all of them. Cause if you leave any of them then you are asking for trouble. Go to their mosques or whatever they call their churchs and mow the rag-head bastards down. Hunt down their religious leaders like dogs. Its a viscious cycle. After we pull out of iraq they are going to brainwash more children with their ideas that we are the devil and send them with bombs and planes to exterminate us. If any of you knew that someone was going to come to your home and burn it down and kill you and your family as you left wouldnt you go and beat that fuckers head in with a bat before he could do it. Anyone who says they wouldnt is a blatant liar. So i say take care of them before there is another bigger 9/11. If your house is infested with rattlesnakes you dont just say oh its ok if he bites me or my children because i ran over one on the road last week you exterminate them before they have the chance to bite you. Thats my point of view and if you dont like it then







f*ck OFF


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## MoeMZA

v4p0r said:


> Personally if im walking down the street and i hear someone say "Praise Allah" they arent gonna be walking away. Muslims are by the word of their religion conditioned to be terrorists. "take back the holy land at any cost" Is the core of their beliefs. I personally dont think we should Kill all arabs. Killing all the muslims will do just fine. And i mean all children women all of them. Cause if you leave any of them then you are asking for trouble. Go to their mosques or whatever they call their churchs and mow the rag-head bastards down. Hunt down their religious leaders like dogs. Its a viscious cycle. After we pull out of iraq they are going to brainwash more children with their ideas that we are the devil and send them with bombs and planes to exterminate us. If any of you knew that someone was going to come to your home and burn it down and kill you and your family as you left wouldnt you go and beat that fuckers head in with a bat before he could do it. Anyone who says they wouldnt is a blatant liar. So i say take care of them before there is another bigger 9/11. If your house is infested with rattlesnakes you dont just say oh its ok if he bites me or my children because i ran over one on the road last week you exterminate them before they have the chance to bite you. Thats my point of view and if you dont like it then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> f*ck OFF


 Strait-Jacket anyone?


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## jimbo

v4p0r said:


> Personally if im walking down the street and i hear someone say "Praise Allah" they arent gonna be walking away. Muslims are by the word of their religion conditioned to be terrorists. "take back the holy land at any cost" Is the core of their beliefs. I personally dont think we should Kill all arabs. Killing all the muslims will do just fine. And i mean all children women all of them. Cause if you leave any of them then you are asking for trouble. Go to their mosques or whatever they call their churchs and mow the rag-head bastards down. Hunt down their religious leaders like dogs. Its a viscious cycle. After we pull out of iraq they are going to brainwash more children with their ideas that we are the devil and send them with bombs and planes to exterminate us. If any of you knew that someone was going to come to your home and burn it down and kill you and your family as you left wouldnt you go and beat that fuckers head in with a bat before he could do it. Anyone who says they wouldnt is a blatant liar. So i say take care of them before there is another bigger 9/11. If your house is infested with rattlesnakes you dont just say oh its ok if he bites me or my children because i ran over one on the road last week you exterminate them before they have the chance to bite you. Thats my point of view and if you dont like it then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> f*ck OFF


Typical American point of view

What do you think the people of Iraq are doing? The Americans are coming into their homes. What are they going to do? They are going to try and kill the troops that are coming into their homes. And why would they shoot as soon as the american troops turn their back? Because the american troops are alot stronger than they are.


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## Jewelz

Some of you guys are forgetting that it was a Jordanian guy behind the beheading, not Iraqi. Actually most of the so-called "Iraqi insurgents" are not Iraqi. Iraqi military is gone and defeated. The Baathists are gone too. Most of the guys over there committing terrorist acts against us are from different countries, so it's not like they're protecting their homeland. They're just there to kill Americans because that's what their terrorist muslim culture suggests they should do.


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## Judazzz

v4p0r said:


> Personally if im walking down the street and i hear someone say "Praise Allah" they arent gonna be walking away. Muslims are by the word of their religion conditioned to be terrorists. "take back the holy land at any cost" Is the core of their beliefs. I personally dont think we should Kill all arabs. Killing all the muslims will do just fine. And i mean all children women all of them. Cause if you leave any of them then you are asking for trouble. Go to their mosques or whatever they call their churchs and mow the rag-head bastards down. Hunt down their religious leaders like dogs. Its a viscious cycle. After we pull out of iraq they are going to brainwash more children with their ideas that we are the devil and send them with bombs and planes to exterminate us. If any of you knew that someone was going to come to your home and burn it down and kill you and your family as you left wouldnt you go and beat that fuckers head in with a bat before he could do it. Anyone who says they wouldnt is a blatant liar. So i say take care of them before there is another bigger 9/11. If your house is infested with rattlesnakes you dont just say oh its ok if he bites me or my children because i ran over one on the road last week you exterminate them before they have the chance to bite you.


What a bunch of racist, generalizing bullshit









Islam is as non-agressive (or agressive: depends on your views on religion) as christianity or judaism: only difference : the actions of a few are reflected on the group as a whole. I doubt many of those that say all muslims are alike, all are born terrorists who have hatred for the US in their genes actually know the basics of islam at all - CNN & Co are certainly not going to offer it, so in a way you can't even blame those people that think like that...

Just an example: "jihad" has little to nothing to do with violence, war or anti-American hatred: instead, what it means is trying to convert non-believers to islam by the power of reason and the spoken word.
It's the terrorists (the "a few" mentioned above) that have shaped how we interpret the term "jihad", even when it's completely at odds with what it really means - but how can any common person who pretty much relies on the media as the main source of information, know this??

So, before blurting out racist, prejudiced and downright false accusations, please try to learn more about the subject...


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## diddye

Judazzz said:


> v4p0r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally if im walking down the street and i hear someone say "Praise Allah" they arent gonna be walking away. Muslims are by the word of their religion conditioned to be terrorists. "take back the holy land at any cost" Is the core of their beliefs. I personally dont think we should Kill all arabs. Killing all the muslims will do just fine. And i mean all children women all of them. Cause if you leave any of them then you are asking for trouble. Go to their mosques or whatever they call their churchs and mow the rag-head bastards down. Hunt down their religious leaders like dogs. Its a viscious cycle. After we pull out of iraq they are going to brainwash more children with their ideas that we are the devil and send them with bombs and planes to exterminate us. If any of you knew that someone was going to come to your home and burn it down and kill you and your family as you left wouldnt you go and beat that fuckers head in with a bat before he could do it. Anyone who says they wouldnt is a blatant liar. So i say take care of them before there is another bigger 9/11. If your house is infested with rattlesnakes you dont just say oh its ok if he bites me or my children because i ran over one on the road last week you exterminate them before they have the chance to bite you.
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of racist, generalizing bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is as non-agressive (or agressive: depends on your views on religion) as christianity or judaism: only difference : the actions of a few are reflected on the group as a whole. I doubt many of those that say all muslims are alike, all are born terrorists who have hatred for the US in their genes actually know the basics of islam at all - CNN & Co are certainly not going to offer it, so in a way you can't even blame those people that think like that...
> 
> Just an example: "jihad" has little to nothing to do with violence, war or anti-American hatred: instead, what it means is trying to convert non-believers to islam by the power of reason and the spoken word.
> It's the terrorists (the "a few" mentioned above) that have shaped how we interpret the term "jihad", even when it's completely at odds with what it really means - but how can any common person who pretty much relies on the media as the main source of information, know this??
> 
> So, before blurting out racist, prejudiced and downright false accusations, please try to learn more about the subject...
Click to expand...

 Doesn't jihad literally translate to "holy war"? Even arabs say thats the literal translation. As in "islamic jihad"....i dont think a militant group would name themselves "lets convert them w/ reason to islam". Just plain silly to me.


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## Enriqo_Suavez

ignore this post


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## MoeMZA

My neighbor says "JIHAD" means, a struggle. He says anything can be considered "jihad." From working out, to writing a term paper, to playing a difficult video game.

Question, how come when, the CHRISTIAN Timothy McVeigh, killed hundreds in Oklahoma City we didn't direct all are hate/violence to ALL Christians and call the entire population a bunch of terrorists?


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## Enriqo_Suavez

MoeMZA said:


> My neighbor says "JIHAD" means, a struggle. He says anything can be considered "jihad." From working out, to writing a term paper, to playing a difficult video game.
> 
> Question, how come when, the CHRISTIAN Timothy McVeigh, killed hundreds in Oklahoma City we didn't direct all are hate/violence to ALL Christians and call the entire population a bunch of terrorists?


Tim McVeigh didn't commit the bombing in the name of Christianity, unlike the terrorists who murder in the name of Islam. Thats "how come"


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## diddye

Timmy's bombing wasn't religious like enriqo stated. He was anti-goverment. It wasn't meant to invoke fear like terrorists but just attack the gov.


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## Ms_Nattereri

jimbo said:


> v4p0r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally if im walking down the street and i hear someone say "Praise Allah" they arent gonna be walking away. Muslims are by the word of their religion conditioned to be terrorists. "take back the holy land at any cost" Is the core of their beliefs. I personally dont think we should Kill all arabs. Killing all the muslims will do just fine. And i mean all children women all of them. Cause if you leave any of them then you are asking for trouble. Go to their mosques or whatever they call their churchs and mow the rag-head bastards down. Hunt down their religious leaders like dogs. Its a viscious cycle. After we pull out of iraq they are going to brainwash more children with their ideas that we are the devil and send them with bombs and planes to exterminate us. If any of you knew that someone was going to come to your home and burn it down and kill you and your family as you left wouldnt you go and beat that fuckers head in with a bat before he could do it. Anyone who says they wouldnt is a blatant liar. So i say take care of them before there is another bigger 9/11. If your house is infested with rattlesnakes you dont just say oh its ok if he bites me or my children because i ran over one on the road last week you exterminate them before they have the chance to bite you. Thats my point of view and if you dont like it then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> f*ck OFF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical American point of view
Click to expand...

You are mistaken.







Just like he generalized his post, your generalizing your post.


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## chiefkyle

MoeMZA said:


> My neighbor says "JIHAD" means, a struggle. He says anything can be considered "jihad." From working out, to writing a term paper, to playing a difficult video game.
> 
> Question, how come when, the CHRISTIAN Timothy McVeigh, killed hundreds in Oklahoma City we didn't direct all are hate/violence to ALL Christians and call the entire population a bunch of terrorists?


 Your neighbor is either;

1. An Arab that has brainwashed you.

or

2. Your neighbor is just another [email protected] retard that has goosed you.

Proof a Jihad is Holy-War------------->http://www.ict.org.il/articles/jihad.htm

Slap your neighbor, he is a stunt-dummy and lied to you.









And the next time I hear a Canadian (--->That doesn't understand American values<----) try to make Americans look bad, I'll going to kill my neighbors dog.









The Hijakers came from Canada....so please STFU.


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## scrubbs

> The Hijakers came from Canada....so please STFU


when you are travelling from canada to the US, Which border guards do you go through?

Well, if you're not sure, you go through US customs, NOT canadian customs. You guys let them in your country too you know. So, if anyones at fault for letting these guys in the country its both because Canada let them into Canada, and conversely, the US let them get into the US.


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## Ms_Nattereri

This whole Canadian/American thing is getting annoying. We're both human beings that come from a diverse population. So get over it.


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## Malice

I think Iraq should be turned into 1 big Glass Parking Lot


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## Jewelz

Malice said:


> I think Iraq should be turned into 1 big Glass Parking Lot


 Hey, not a bad idea !

Then we can test our nukes there. One way or the other, they'll have their weapons of mass destruction


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## chiefkyle

Jewelz said:


> Malice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Iraq should be turned into 1 big Glass Parking Lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, not a bad idea !
> 
> Then we can test our nukes there. One way or the other, they'll have their weapons of mass destruction
Click to expand...


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## aaron07_20

Trust me..thats not a typical american point of view..only stupid americans would think that muslims are bad people..and that just because a few muslims destroyed the worl trade cnters that they are all bad people..most muslims are very religous and they are very good people...just a different culture. Many americans and people all over the world don't accept different cultures...thats why the world is what it is today..


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## diddye

Whats the point of condemning attacks? For instance, when countries condemned the attacks of iraqs converning council, or bergs killing, or an israeli/palestinian attack? Its like saying "naughty naughty", but i dont see any action taking place. I read about these comments of condemnation but is there some kind of process that happens after?


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## randomhero

i hate to say this or sound ignorant, but thats one mushroom cloud ive been wanting to see for a long time. You can sit there and argue either way, the only way this is going to end is a show of power. It worked in WWII, It'll work now. Im not saying extermination of a race is in order, it never has been. But just like when youre getting bullied at school, you dont talk to the bully, the bully doesnt understand talk, you whoop his ass and make him understand. In the end, the one huge bombing could save lives in the end, just like it did with hiroshima and nagasaki. I realize that many of you wont agree with this, and youre all entitled to your own opinions. But dont attack my character because you dont agree with my opinion. Ive noticed alot of people in this thread that have been calling each other names because of the difference in opinions. The only way I would honestly listen to anyones opinion in here is if theyre either currently in the middle east, or in the military. First hand accounts are the only reliable source IMO. News relays biased opinions, as much as i hate to say it.

For those of you who actually know me and have talked to me, you know how I am. I grew up in the middle of dearborn with dozens of middle eastern friends. I have no racist feelings toward middle eastern people. I am not a bad person or an ignorant one at that.


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## nismo driver

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Yup its not like the US asked Iraq and saddam to let inspectors in out of the blue... Inspections were required to ensure dismantling of weapons that it was KNOWN saddam had after the gulf war. .... People don't seem to understand that the burdon of proof was ON IRAQ to show taht they DISMANTLED their weapons.... The burdon of proof was not on the UN to prove that they still had them. However Saddam defied UN orders and inspections... so for several years, they halted... The US then kicked it up a notch.. Inspections would continue... People seem to think that this continuation of inspections was the beginning of the whole story!! So the controversy comes into play when uninformed people think that we just moved on into Iraq out of the blue... Iraq defied inspections once, and did not follow through the second time around either. The UN was going to continue to allow Saddam to disobey, but the US decided that they couldnt let him do that anymore. Thus, the war.


 true and our government doesnt kill thousands of it own citizens with the weapons they devlop...


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## nismo driver

diddye said:


> btw: what's with all the commotion about the decapitation? It's war, sh*t happens: deal with it... (I've heard the exact same argument from those that try to justify or downtalk what the Americans did to prisoners...)
> 
> And I agree: those that argue genocide is acceptable should be kneecapped and shot in the head - there's no place for people like that in this world, imo.


Haha thats so ironic. This is coming from peace-loving "impartial" people. You guys are saying thats so bad when "your whole family and its whole line" should be killed off. You try to sound so compassionate and yet you say basically the same thing to them. [/quote]
yeah but he was right it is war ish does happen and im sure when you have a truck load of insurgents running straigt for you and your behind a 50cal. machine gun you dont just try to put 1 bullet in the drivers head, you have some fun with it, yeah it may be appaling to see a video of one guy getting his head cut off but imagine a video of a car load of people getting shot by thirty marines...


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## MR HARLEY

nismo driver said:


> but imagine a video of a car load of people getting shot by thirty marines...


 Now that I would like to see .....


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## nismo driver

MR HARLEY said:


> nismo driver said:
> 
> 
> 
> but imagine a video of a car load of people getting shot by thirty marines...
> 
> 
> 
> Now that I would like to see .....
Click to expand...

 two of my best friends are marines one went afganastan right after 9/11 and has since finished his service, the other reinlisted for a year specifically to go to Iraq.. and they have other friends still stationed there and i know other people from high school that have been recently returning from iraq... the American media does an excellent job gaining sympathy for for fallen soilders and they should be respected and honored for there commitment and ultimate sacrafice.. one thing the media doesnt show much of is how much we have f--ked them up over there, our troops are very well trained for one thing winning, winning = killing, everytime one of our troops is killed the media will tell us how many soldiers have died since bush declared the end of majore combat and how many since the begining of the whole thing and for each month, but where have you ever seen numbers for how many iraqis have been killed? they might say 10 or 15 or 20 insurgents where killed over the weekend but when it comes down to it they have taken heavy losses.. It should by no means be a war of attrition like vietnam but ew have taken far fewer losses than they have and considering the number of troops sent there weve done pretty good.. we have inflicted serious carnage, not too long ago someone post links to pictures one of there friends brought back from iraq, i have seen hundreds of these pictures that friends have brought back and there were iraqi's way more mangled then one guy with hi head cut off.. doesnt make it right but it is definately something to consider when everyones making a big deal about this guy berg..


----------



## MR HARLEY

nismo driver said:


> MR HARLEY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nismo driver said:
> 
> 
> 
> but imagine a video of a car load of people getting shot by thirty marines...
> 
> 
> 
> Now that I would like to see .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> two of my best friends are marines one went afganastan right after 9/11 and has since finished his service, the other reinlisted for a year specifically to go to Iraq.. and they have other friends still stationed there and i know other people from high school that have been recently returning from iraq... the American media does an excellent job gaining sympathy for for fallen soilders and they should be respected and honored for there commitment and ultimate sacrafice.. one thing the media doesnt show much of is how much we have f--ked them up over there, our troops are very well trained for one thing winning, winning = killing, everytime one of our troops is killed the media will tell us how many soldiers have died since bush declared the end of majore combat and how many since the begining of the whole thing and for each month, but where have you ever seen numbers for how many iraqis have been killed? they might say 10 or 15 or 20 insurgents where killed over the weekend but when it comes down to it they have taken heavy losses.. It should by no means be a war of attrition like vietnam but ew have taken far fewer losses than they have and considering the number of troops sent there weve done pretty good.. we have inflicted serious carnage, not too long ago someone post links to pictures one of there friends brought back from iraq, i have seen hundreds of these pictures that friends have brought back and there were iraqi's way more mangled then one guy with hi head cut off.. doesnt make it right but it is definately something to consider when everyones making a big deal about this guy berg..
Click to expand...

Im just going to leave this one alone ..........

I wish your friends a safe return


----------

