# Help me with First Planted Set-up



## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Hey Everyone,
I am new to the planted scene and am currently setting up my first planted tank. I am still on the aquascaping part of the journey and am looking for advice for this set-up.

set up details:
40g breeder tank (36x18x16 I think)
10g sump w/bio balls and carbon when needed (mag7 for return pump)
50lbs of aquariumplants.com planted tank substrate
DIY 70w MH lighting pendant using a Brinks fixture.

I do not plan on adding pressurized carbon to this tank because I don't want to do a whole bunch of maintenance (ie, have to start dosing dry ferts, etc.). I do plan on dosing Excell to the tank and using root tab fertilizer from aquariumplants.com. The light should give adequate coverage from front to back and cover almost the whole length of the tank minus a few inches on each side. Light sits about 6-7" off of the water. I also have 4 pieces of driftwood to use in the tank for my hardscape.

I was wondering with the information I gave, what type of plants would you use? Keep in mind the lighting, current in the tank, fact I am not using pressurized CO2 (only Excell and root ferts), and that it is a piranha that needs some room to ram around in when he wants.

Here's some pics of the tank with water in it (letting it all settle and cure a bit) and some shots of the driftwood I have:























































Thanks a lot guys.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Well simplicity is going to be important here. Now you are most likley still going to need to douse ferts. Unless your P can provide adiquate levels of NPK. Root tabs do not have Macro ferts. So you have to introduce it at some point. 
As for plants all going to have to be low light since you are less then 2wpg. 
Anubus, Java ferns, Java moss, Dwarf Sag, maybe Micro swords or dwarf haigrass, E. Tennelus, 
Crypts. A good list of low light requirement plants can be found here
http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.p...amp;filter_by=2

Keep in mind that Vals do not do well when you douse with Excel.Mosses are also sensitive to it.


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Out of curiosity, what is up with the great stuff on the back of the tank?

If it were me, I would put maybe one sword, and then some crpyt spiralis and a few other smaller crypts or crypt plugs, maybe some blyxa japonica or dwarf sag, some bolbitis, some either windelov java fern or tropica java fern and then a few anubias to finish it off. Maybe a little bit of taiwan moss on the wood as well.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

BlackSunshine,
thanks man. out of curiousity what in excell hurts vals and mosses? so the macro ferts are going to be all the other different flourish products or do I need to order the dry form of all the actual chemicals? I am really trying to go for simplicity and wouldn't mind not having to dose at all. It is low light and I don't mind if the plants don't grow quick, i am patient. Could I get away with no dosing and just root tabs?

riz,
thanks for the suggestions. as for the handifoam, i like the look of it, kinda like a rock/root thing. i also used it because i made small loops with the foam which will allow me to attach moss or java fern to the background of the tank giving it a pretty cool appearance.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

another question for you gentleman. i hear the wpg being used a lot but in my experience with reef tanks, i learned that is not a real accurate measurement for light. what i am saying is people would consider my tank a decently lit tank if i had say 96w of pc light (2.4wpg or whatever) but my 70w of MH lighting (1.8 wpg or whatever) is low light. Given par ratings penetration values for pc compared to MH, my lighting is actually stronger. why doesn't that seem to factor into freshwater tanks? is it something about the freshwater that allows the lights to penetrate the same, do these rules only apply to salt water, etc.? I am not trying to be an ass or ignorant, I just don't understand the logic.


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Well I have no answer for your lighting questions... except I wouldnt see how freshwater would differ from saltwater unless the saltwater refracts light differently. I would say 99% of the planted tank community doesnt use MH so all standards are set to typical lighting options like PC, T12, T8 and T5.

As for the handifoam... I would go with a taiwan moss backing, it is a lot easier to control than java and has more of a defined growth habit. Could look very cool when all grown in though.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

thanks for all the help riz, and sorry for all the questions. i will look into all of those plants and let you know what i went with.


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## divine (Jan 3, 2005)

about the lighting. I feel you are correct in stating that 70w MH is more light than 96w PC. From what i know and understand. MH gives off more lumens per watt than PC, and High pressure sodium higher than MH. standard florescent being lower than PC. Not sure where normal Incandencent fit in. I had a planted tank with 525w MH over 240gal. barely over 2wpg and the growth was insane, no plants i couldn't grow.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

well I have my DIY 70w fixture over the tank and there is no way in heck that I can't grow some plants that need a good amount of light. that concerns me thinking about possible algae problems though. i might have to go with CO2, but I don't want to have to maintain the tank constantly and worry about dosing all the time. oh dilemas!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Sorry, but a 70w MH pendant over a 40g breeder would almost certainly need pressurized CO2, IMHO. 
MH setups are the most blistering of all light that you can put over a tank. That changes things when figuring out wpg. 
With that in mind, the sump as a filter wouldn't be optimum due to gas loss, but it seems that you won't be using pressurized CO2 anyway.
I think you ought to scrap the project before you start, or get a much bigger tank. Or, you could get a canister filter, and a pressurized CO2 setup.
If low maintenance is your goal, get something close to 40w in a T 12, or T8 flourescent, and stick with low light plants


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

well Dippy I think you are right. I currently am searching classifieds for a deal on a canister filter and I hope I can get mashunter18's from him. It's an Oddyssea brand, are they good? I really don't know crap about canister filters. I am thinking of going with the Dr. Fosters and Smith semi-automatic pressurized C02 system because it is on a great sale. I will search my local beverage stations for a C02 tank when that time comes. The thing is that I have all the time in the world to set this tank up. I have my piranha in a 30gallon tank, healing up from a fungal infection so I can work on this tank as long as I want to.

Thanks again for the help guys.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

I've got an odyssea CFS4. Has worked great for me for at least a year so far. 
If he's been running his for a while I think you are ok. But the quality is hit/miss. So you might not be so lucky on a brand new one.

The DR F&S semi auto kit is great EXCEPT that it comes with silicone tubing. (pretty much the worst stuff for CO2) I would replace it with polyurathane tubing (best stuff). theres a couple guys on The planted tank that sell it for 60-70 cents a foot.

As to your earlier question about what in Excel hurts vals and mosses. Well Excel. It is made of basically a sterilizing agent/ industrial cleaner. While most plants are able to convert this to useable carbon substitute it is a damaging substance to some plants. Vals, anacharis and mosses being the first three that pop to mind.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Black Sunshine,
I believe it was the one that he was using on his tank that he decided to break down, so assume it works up to par. Thanks for clarifying the Excell thing and also giving the heads up on the tubing.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Yeah. I figure if he had it in use it was working fine for him.

Anyway when your ready I know a couple ppl you can get the good tubing from. 
main guy is www.rexgrigg.com you can actually get alot of good quality CO2 gear from him.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

BS,
thanks for the lead on the CO2 gear. I got 10 feet of polyurathane tubing today for $6 shipped from John N. at aquaticplant forum.

a bummer is that mashunter18 told me that he may need to change the price on what he was selling it for because the shipping will cost him so much. we'll have to see how that goes. like i said, i have plenty of time so there is no need to rush..... although I do love to get my toys








.

I'll take a pic of my tank with the light on to show everyone my hardscape and maybe show a diagram of where I want my plants to go and everyone can give me feedback.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

yeah John N was the other source I was going to lead you to. Either one is fine. I actually got my tubing from John also. its good stuff, you will just have to use a lighter to heat it before you try and slip it on any thing, Especially glassware.

If you can't wind up getting the one from Mass there are some decent low priced eheims that you could get.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

BS,
I ended up getting mashunters!!!! I am pumped about it, great price and he'll ship it on Monday.

Let me know what you think about my plans for my tank:

substrate cover: glosso
background: java fern
driftwood on left: anubis, moss, micro sword in front and amazon sword in back
right side of tank: tall grass (not sure what type)

Does this seem like it would work? are any of them fast growers so I wouldnt' get an algae spike?


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

What kind of fish will you be keeping?
Glossos don't mix too well with big fish.
As for fast growth plants, most of them prefer lots of light.
Any rate, get with Dippy, he often have stem plants that ships very well and very reasonable.


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

Genin said:


> BS,
> I ended up getting mashunters!!!! I am pumped about it, great price and he'll ship it on Monday.
> 
> Let me know what you think about my plans for my tank:
> ...


From what i can recall..and i may be wrong here, but 
Anubias is slow growing so is moss.....the micro swords im guessing are slow and the swords dont grow very fast at all either.
Glosso i have no idea...and tall grass would be dependant on which you pick.

you might want to find some faster growers to balance


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Roundhead,
I will be mixing a small shoal of cardinal tetras with a solitary red belly (almost 7" now). As you know he will ram around on occassion so perhaps I should try some other ground cover. I want one that is very low to the substrate and grows more horizontally than vertically, any suggestions?

flashover00,
thanks for the heads up on the growth rate. Maybe some wisteria??? that may look decent in there.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Micro swords are considered slow growers. By people that have low lit tanks. 
my personal exp in my high light tank is they are pretty quick to spread and carpet the tank.

A good fast grower I like to use when establishing a new tank is Stargrass. That sh*t grows like crazy. In my 20 gal it overruns the tank within a week. 
If you like I have a bunch of it floating that I trimmed last week. Where are you located? West or east coast?


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

BS,
I am on the east coast. PA. what does stargrass look like? I am planning on having this tank up and ready for plants in about another month, if you still have trimmings then I would gladly take some (of course I would pay the shipping).

can you post a pic of stargrass, or you 20gallon so I can get an idea of what it looks like?


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Thats what it looks like before a biweekly trim.








and after.

heres a top view its the green stuff on the left


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

awesome. I will make sure to PM you when my tank is ready for some plants so I can add some of that! that is if it is still available then.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

cool. yeah Its just floating in my 75 gal for now. I'm sure I'll have more growing and ready to trim if I don't still have this stuff. Lemme know when you're ready.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Genin said:


> Roundhead,
> I will be mixing a small shoal of cardinal tetras with a solitary red belly (almost 7" now). As you know he will ram around on occassion so perhaps I should try some other ground cover. I want one that is very low to the substrate and grows more horizontally than vertically, any suggestions?
> 
> flashover00,
> thanks for the heads up on the growth rate. Maybe some wisteria??? that may look decent in there.


Cardinal tetras, very expensive food.








I have been keeping glossos for some time now.
I can tell you that they need light and good fertile substrate to help them hug the bottom.
But eventually they will get dense and start to go up.
What does this mean? With glossos flourishing in your tank, you will need to trim and replant more often than other plants in order to achieve a nice carpet affect.

Good luck.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

hence the small shoal







. seriously though, I have noticed that with my piranhas as they get larger they tend to let the little fish be. maybe i'll start off with some neons as testers. you guys are starting to make me paranoid with all this trimming talk







. this is starting to sound like saltwater...... dose this, trim that, propagate this, pH that, blah blah blah.

Thanks for the luck, I am sure I will need it. Just be waiting for my posts on algae, I can already see them coming!


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

if you dont want to wait for the algae problems, i can send you some.....i have enough to spare in my small planted tank


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

I am being really honest with you.
I have a total of 4 x 80gal, 4 x 30gal, 1 x 10gal, 1 x 65gal, and 1 x 125gal. 
One of the 80gal is the planted tank and I spend more time on it than all of the other tanks combined.
Our experts can help you with the right fert dose. But you will eventually develope your own method from experience.
As for algae problems, don't worry about it. You must pay attention to the plants and the algae and take care of the algae immediately. 
You will have problems if you neglect the algae because they will spread faster than you wouldn't belief.
My recommendation is to start right and it won't go wrong. I would like to emphasize on the substrate. You need to look at all the possible substrate and make a sound decision. Changing out substrate with existing plants and fish is a bitch.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

flashover,
lmao, no thanks man







.

roundhead,
trust me, I am definately taking my time on this tank. I want to make sure everything is right before I even start it up. As for substrate, I already purchased it, rinsed it, and put it in the tank. I got 50lbs of aquariumplants.com planted tank substrate. It came highly reccommended from other plant forums and is the same as eco-complete or soil master select, etc. It looks pretty cool to (check out the picture above).


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Just an update:

I purchased the Dr. Fosters&Smith semi-automatic pressurized CO2 system, excell, and ADA ferts (brightly step 1). I will check my local beverage stores to find a CO2 tank. Basically by mid next week I should be ready to plant my tank!
















Be watching for updates and if you guys have any java fern, micro chain swords, java moss, anubias nana, glosso, or any other plants you guys think would be cool and are willing to part with for cheap then let me know. I am going to get star grass off of BS, so that's a start







.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I bet Ill have some plants to give you even after I fill an order for tomorrow.. You would have to let me know tonight or tomorrow the latest, because they are in a bucket right now lol


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Hey Dippy, 
sorry for getting back to you too late. I have been very distracted and not on the forum as much with the baby being around. thanks for the offer though, I will definately be looking to get some off of you for your next trimming. I will have everything ready by early next week and will be able to plant!


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Updates!

I recieved most of my equipment for my tank. I have my canister filter up and running, the heater going, etc. I got my Drs. Fosters&Smith semi-automatic CO2 system, and they are sending me another glass diffuser because it was broken when it arrived today. I got my ADA ferts and my flourish excell in the mail today also. Wednesday I should have my glass diffuser and am going to pick up a 5lb aluminum CO2 tank from a buddy for $35, seemed like a good deal to me! So hopefully by next Wednesday I will be plant ready.

Here's a shot with my 7 neons in there, can't really tell, lol:


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

ok got my anubas nana, java fern (narrow leaf), and java moss in the tank the way I want them. the rest of my plants should arrive tomorrow with my CO2 tank!

let me know what you think:


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Pff, nice selection of plants.. I love Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae.. And I like the placement of the Anubias.. nice.

Wait one second here.. That isn't a Crypt at all, it's narrow leaf Java fern.. Umm, Java ferns grow from their rhizomes. The rhizome can not be buried, or the plant will suffocate and die eventually.
It would be much better to tie them to some rocks back there, or a piece of driftwood.
I really think that Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae would be an excellent choice of plant where the java fern is. But then again, you could keep it there, as long as the rhizome isn't buried.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

wow thanks for the heads up dippy. i never claimed to be smart, lol.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Well I got all of my plants in. Blyxa courtesy of riz, also blyxa and stargrass courtesy of BS (thanks again guys). My CO2 tank is still not here, my buddy still has not allowed me to pick it up yet (schedules not coinciding). I am dosing excell and ADA step 1.

So here's what is in the tank:
java fern 
java moss 
anubias nana 
najas grass
Rotala rotundifolia
Monosolenium tenerum 
Taiwan moss
HC
Bacopa caroliniana
blyxa
stargrass
crypt


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Lookin good so far man!

I like the blyxa!


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## SNAKEBITE (Oct 7, 2006)

my favorite...rotala rotundifolia


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

thanks Mike, I like the blyxa to.

SNAKEBITE,
i like the purplr tint to its leaves.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Looks good. I would suggest placing the HC across the front somehow, because it is a very low plant.
It is a hard plant to get going, I hope it works for you.
It needs lots of light, softer water, and lots of ferts to look it's best. Nice start


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Thanks for the advice Dippy. I want the middle section (front to back and about 8" accross) to be all HC. I think that will give a cool little valley type section in the tank and that is most likely where I will drop in the food and stuff, I think it will look neat. I also made sure it was right in the middle directly below the MH lighting so it gets the direct blast. After I get my CO2 pumping (I am hoping Monday but at this point who knows) I am expecting things to really take off.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I really think that Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae would be an excellent choice of plant where the java fern is. But then again, you could keep it there, as long as the rhizome isn't buried.


Wait you can't bury the rhizome for that crypt? Balansae? 
damnit.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

BS, i thought he meant the java fern couldn't be buried, not the crypt.


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

BlackSunshine said:


> I really think that Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae would be an excellent choice of plant where the java fern is. But then again, you could keep it there, as long as the rhizome isn't buried.


Wait you can't bury the rhizome for that crypt? Balansae? 
damnit.
[/quote]

The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

^^^^oh snap.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

therizman1 said:


> The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


I know. Thats why it threw me when he said that. I thought there might be something special about this specific crypt. I was thinking "Huh? But they seem to be doing ok in my tank"

I'm ok.


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

BlackSunshine said:


> The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


I know. Thats why it threw me when he said that. I thought there might be something special about this specific crypt. I was thinking "Huh? But they seem to be doing ok in my tank"

I'm ok.
[/quote]

Ill blame it on your lack of sleep with that new kid :rasp:


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

therizman1 said:


> The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


I know. Thats why it threw me when he said that. I thought there might be something special about this specific crypt. I was thinking "Huh? But they seem to be doing ok in my tank"

I'm ok.
[/quote]

Ill blame it on your lack of sleep with that new kid :rasp:
[/quote]


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## SNAKEBITE (Oct 7, 2006)

therizman1 said:


> The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


I know. Thats why it threw me when he said that. I thought there might be something special about this specific crypt. I was thinking "Huh? But they seem to be doing ok in my tank"

I'm ok.
[/quote]
*
Ill blame it on your lack of sleep with that new kid*:rasp:
[/quote]
woundering who that new kid is...?


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

SNAKEBITE said:


> The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


I know. Thats why it threw me when he said that. I thought there might be something special about this specific crypt. I was thinking "Huh? But they seem to be doing ok in my tank"

I'm ok.
[/quote]
*
Ill blame it on your lack of sleep with that new kid*:rasp:
[/quote]
woundering who that new kid is...?








[/quote]
Umm.. My newborn son. 
http://piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?sh...=142285&hl=


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## SNAKEBITE (Oct 7, 2006)

BlackSunshine said:


> The crypt can be buried, but the java fern cant. You should know this BS...:rasp:


I know. Thats why it threw me when he said that. I thought there might be something special about this specific crypt. I was thinking "Huh? But they seem to be doing ok in my tank"

I'm ok.
[/quote]
*
Ill blame it on your lack of sleep with that new kid*:rasp:
[/quote]
woundering who that new kid is...?








[/quote]
Umm.. My newborn son. 
http://piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?sh...=142285&hl=
[/quote]
i know im really late but congrats blacksunshine!!!

sorry to derail genin


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

no worries, it's all part of the fun. trust me my baby makes me sleep deprived retarded also, they can be exhausting.

update:
my pressurized CO2 is set up, so lets see how things grow!!!!!


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## SNAKEBITE (Oct 7, 2006)

cant wait to see the growth on them...how many bpm are you running?


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

I am running 2 bubbles per minute currently and am going to see how it goes.

Here's a shot of how I have the CO2 tube running into the intake of my cannister filter that I am using as a reactor:


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

hey guys,
my anubas nana is not doing so hot, the leaves on the plant that is placed highest on the driftwood are kinda going transparent in some spots and turning darker etc. what can be causing that? everything else seems fine. could they be adjusting to my light? they came from a tank with pc lighting. i am only dosing ADA step 1 and excell with 2 bpm of CO2.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Genin--
I have no experience with the ADA ferts. They are very secrative in what goes into their products, due to their bend towards plants. Do you have the ADA substrate system?
But it sounds like either a potassium, or micro issue.. What are your params?

I think checking your params every other day is key with a new tank. Especially when the tank is driven with MH lighting.. brutal light







What is your CO2 ppm?


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

all tests with jungle brand dip tests:

pH: 6
kH: 1 (isn't that low?)
gH: 200 ppm (liquid rock basically)
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10ppm

by your DFW chart it says I am at about 30ppm, should I up the CO2? I don't see any pearling going on with any of the plants.


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

you're perfect in that co2 range.

Watch out!. Your KH is low...and this affects the buffering capacity of your ph.
Monitor your ph regularly and keep an eye out on how much c02 you are running.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

flashover,
shouldn't i get pearling on the plants if my CO2 is right? i always hear people talk about that.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

the co2 chart that I posted don't work if there is any sort of peat in the tank, because it changes the water chemistry. 
I'm not sure, but if you are using the ADA substrate with the power sand, that has peat on it.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

sorry Dippy, I forgot to answer the second part of your question. I am using aquariumplants.com planted substrate, no peat involved.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Update:
The plants have been in there for about a full week now, and with 4 days of pressurized CO2 injection. I also have 6 new serpae tetras and 2 otos.

Here's some shots:


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

Wow looking good! I'm sorry I didn't get to this thread sooner!
Pressurized C02 sure makes a world of difference..


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

yeah i agree...its coming along nicely


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

coming along very nice


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## Pfrenzy (Mar 19, 2007)

nice update did you get alot of help on apc genin?


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Sheppard,
Thanks a lot for the nice words. One thing I noticed immediately with the CO2 is the plants became more green and thick. 
They have grown enough to where I now have the tank scaped differently to accommidate the plants and available light. With
every bit that grows I am able to scape the tank more and more the way I want it. I think I have it to a place where I can just 
let it go wild now.

flashover & coutl,
thanks guys.

Pfrenzy,
thanks for the compliment and yes APC was super helpful. I got a lot of my plants from members there and from Riz and BS
(both members here and at APC).


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

I really don't check for CO2 levels anymore.
What I do is crank it up to the max and watch for signs of fish gasping for air.
Then I back down to the fish's tolerance happy level and that is it.
I don't care much to check for ph or use a ph monitor any more because the plants that I have prefers low ph.
Surface aggitation is a great help with O2 adsorbtion for the fish.
Lots of people believe that more surface aggitation will evaporate CO2; this is true but you must consider hydrodynamics and how to increase the exposure of CO2 in water while providing O2 for the fish. 
I will put together a topic on this at a later time.

Good luck.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

the new topic sounds pretty cool roundhead. i am happy with my tank levels and with the CO2 levels in my tank.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

TO check CO2 I prefer just using a drop checker. Its a quick visual cue. 
I make and sell those too. I just haven't advertised it. But I got materials in for my new batch so if you are interested in picking one up lemme know.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

can you explain a drop checker to me? I am kinda naive to what it is.


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