# Rbp Vs Super Rbp



## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

just wondering is there such thing i've done somewhat or research but i couldn't find anything to really convince me super reds really exist. if so how can i tell the difference between a super rbp and a plain rbp ?


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## scotty (Oct 3, 2007)

I think the only way to tell is when their spots are gone. They will be much a brighter red on bottom and have "flames" orange/reddish streaks going partially up their sides


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

A Super Red has a Giant S Symbol on its Belly and has a Cape. Not to mention its super Fish powers.
Oh last butt not least a SUPER RED is just a wild caught Red.

Super Red was a name given to it by an Importer. Scientifically speaking its a Wild Red thats all.


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## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

cool. so more so of just a fancy name ?



scotty said:


> I think the only way to tell is when their spots are gone. They will be much a brighter red on bottom and have "flames" orange/reddish streaks going partially up their sides


humm will have flames ? any pic so i could compare them ?


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

dmackey said:


> I think the only way to tell is when their spots are gone. They will be much a brighter red on bottom and have "flames" orange/reddish streaks going partially up their sides


humm will have flames ? any pic so i could compare them ?
[/quote]

My Reds have Red flames , and they are store bred.


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## fury (Nov 30, 2003)

> a SUPER RED is just a wild caught Red


took the words out of my mouth


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Just check the OPEFE profile :
*
The common name Super Red is meaningless for any specific P. nattereri since these fish can be highly colored in dark red or reddish-orange within its range. The common name has been applied to fish from Peru. A look at the geographical forms of P. nattereri can show that some are more brilliant than others. This color can also be lost during the fishes growth in your aquarium or a dealer's tank as the fish matures. The dealer who coined that name for his fish was probably unaware (at the time) this name could apply to a number of species. It is a relatively new name in the piranha hobby and it is indeed foolish to just attach it to just one locality of P. nattereri. As for the reticulated P. nattereri, this feature is found on some but not all of the fishes from the middle Amazon. If one wanted to call this a Snakeskin, then that would be fine for a common name so long as the person understands that feature is eventually lost behind the brilliant scales. For some unknown reason, this name was eventually grouped with Super Red. Again its value is a minor concern. The real value in these wild fishes is the fact they are wild and can replenish a diminished gene pool if you are into breeding piranhas. Some people collect solely for their beauty (which is what I do). Others because they are "wild" and in that there is value.*

The name is just extra $ for the vendor.


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## dannyk (Jan 2, 2010)

I've been led to belive that the super red's are brighter in colour more of a red/ orange and from brazil called p.nattereri black marajo. I've not seen these on a shippers list from brazil marked up as black marajo untill today so i've ordered a box to see the difference i'll keep you posted on what they are and look like with pic's they will be here next tuesday. There price compared to normal nattereri from brazil or peru is more than double.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

can't wait to see ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Genesis8 (Sep 11, 2009)

Anyone on here has any Super Reds?


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## dannyk (Jan 2, 2010)

bigshawn said:


> can't wait to see ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


i can't wait either tbh i've herd loads about them but just never come across them to buy or i would of before now i've had wild peru reds so i'll post pics of both types to see what the difference.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

scotty said:


> The name is just extra $ for the vendor.


It is no different then any of the common names applied to S. rhombeus. It describes P. nattereri collected from a specific area that has different characteristics when young. Everyone is so cynical when it comes to dealers...yet if it wasnt for them...none of us would have these fish in our tanks. They charge based on supply and demand just like every other business in the world. Common names are used to differentiate these fish by not only dealers but hobbyists. If hobbyists continue to use common names&#8230;why would you expect a dealer to not capitalize on it?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Exactly GG, it's the hobbyists who get all worked up over these names, yet they always seem so quick to point the finger at the vendors.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> It describes P. nattereri collected from a specific area that has different characteristics when young.


*



It is a relatively new name in the piranha hobby and it is indeed foolish to just attach it to just one locality of P. nattereri.

Click to expand...



*According to OPEFE it is not a certain locality. What differences, except the brighter colors, do you mean ?


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## RedSoxfan (Apr 7, 2010)

They are nice looking though.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

CombiChrist said:


> [/i][/b]According to OPEFE it is not a certain locality. What differences, except the brighter colors, do you mean ?


They are more elongated when young, they have a clear eye, they have a heavier jaw then any other P. nattereri I have seen at that size...and they have a reticulated spotting pattern.
Here is a picture from AS....you can clearly see the differences.

I know what Frank says...we just happen to have a different opinion on this subject. I havent ever seen P. nattereri that looks like these fish collected from a different area. Im not saying there are none...just that I havent seen it...and as far as I know...all "Super Reds" are imported from the same location.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

A nattereri with bright eyes ? Or only in young specimen, like every other natt ?

The picture above confuses me, since I never saw a superred that yellowish... What they sell here for super red is really red :


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The color difference could just be the flash or something to do with the camera...Im referring to the shape of the fish and the size of the lower jaw. Also the reticulated spotting pattern. Not all nattereri have red eyes...ternetzi's eyes remain clear..as do the super reds I have seen as sub-adults. But as Frank would say...eye color doesnt really mean anything.


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## Genesis8 (Sep 11, 2009)

So the Super Reds are elongated when younger? Because I saw a bunch of them at a LFS and they sold it as RB and I was like they look weird because they looked long.


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## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

CombiChrist said:


> A nattereri with bright eyes ? Or only in young specimen, like every other natt ?
> 
> The picture above confuses me, since I never saw a superred that yellowish... What they sell here for super red is really red :


so would these you have pics of be considered super reds or just rbp ? thats the color rbp im lookin for


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

the picture GG posted are Super Reds. They are natts from brazil that as he explains have difference's in how they look.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

not sure what they look like but I was told by one of are sponsers that superreds the ones he sells come from Brazil the rio sao river, I've also seen them go under the name snakeskin piranha............


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## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

cool ...does anyone have any pics of any adult size super reds ?


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## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

Grosse Gurke said:


> [/i][/b]According to OPEFE it is not a certain locality. What differences, except the brighter colors, do you mean ?


They are more elongated when young, they have a clear eye, they have a heavier jaw then any other P. nattereri I have seen at that size...and they have a reticulated spotting pattern.
Here is a picture from AS....you can clearly see the differences.

I know what Frank says...we just happen to have a different opinion on this subject. I havent ever seen P. nattereri that looks like these fish collected from a different area. Im not saying there are none...just that I havent seen it...and as far as I know...all "Super Reds" are imported from the same location.
[/quote]

good stuff thanks for the detailed information and break down.


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

To me,

Super Reds is just a name.
It means nothing at all.
I can just tell you mine are super red, You wont have a single way to prove me wrong. Because its just a made up term to sell more fish.

Iv noticed in my reds.

They get very vibrant red, When I feed them pellets and keep the temp really high.
Early evening is when there reds really pop.

If your looking for "super reds" you will be very dissapointed.
Beacuse when you get them home, They wont have any color from the stress.

After awhile you will still be dissapointed, Because u'll realize your online vendor made the red pop, with his camera/PS.

If I were to buy reds again, 
Id try to buy them at at least 4". 
Id try to see how skittish they are. (taping the display tank) (acting like a retard and waving my hand around)
Id try to get some already on a mixed diet.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Somehow you got me doubting GG







Wil have to start studying the topic some more I guess. Do the eyes remain clear in adults species also ? Are there any other differences in adult specimen ? Or do they all appear the same once they are adults ?
And if the eyes are clear in adults, how are they to be differentiated from caribas with a faded humeral spot ?

Just some questions to start with


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

From what I think I know, lol

When younger, I cant really make out any red on the eyes, This happens at a certain size/age.

So who ever said they dont have red in there eyes when younger, I dont agree.


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

Iv bought 3 batches.

Batch one- Baby reds (LFS, Captive bread)
Very shy, Faded colors, Smaller fins

Batch 2- Wild reds 
Huge fins, Very agressive, Decent coloring, Spotting VERY close 2gether

Batch 3 - Marcos reds
Most have huge Jaw bones, Clearly Visible lower teeth, Lack of color(on most)
There jaws seem to be pointy. They were also slim and very long.

When I take a look at my shole, I can almost point out which batch is which


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Super red has nothing to do with the color or how vibrant the fish are...that is completely up to their diet and water conditions. If you look at the picture I posted....you can easily see the difference between other nattereri of a similar size. I also stated that I am yet to see an adult "super red" so I cant comment on them. All I am saying is they are P. nattereri from a different area of SA. Labeling these fish "super reds" is no different then people calling their S. rhombeus a blue diamond rhom.

I know Frank says that if you take a sample of nattereri from different areas you will find some with these characteristics so these fish are caught everywhere....however I have seen these "super reds" in tanks holding 100's of them and they all look the same...and they do not look anything like other nattereri I have seen.

As far as telling the difference between an adult cariba that has lost its spot....that would be easy...adult cariba dont look anything like adult nattereri IMO. Their differences go far beyond eye color.

You can believe whoever you wish...it doesnt matter to me...all I am doing is documenting what I have seen.


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Super red has nothing to do with the color or how vibrant the fish are...that is completely up to their diet and water conditions. All I am saying is they are P. nattereri from a different area of SA.


agreed


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Super red has nothing to do with the color or how vibrant the fish are...that is completely up to their diet and water conditions. If you look at the picture I posted....you can easily see the difference between other nattereri of a similar size. I also stated that I am yet to see an adult "super red" so I cant comment on them. All I am saying is they are P. nattereri from a different area of SA. Labeling these fish "super reds" is no different then people calling their S. rhombeus a blue diamond rhom.
> 
> I know Frank says that if you take a sample of nattereri from different areas you will find some with these characteristics so these fish are caught everywhere....however I have seen these "super reds" in tanks holding 100's of them and they all look the same...and they do not look anything like other nattereri I have seen.
> 
> ...


Well I would not say it has nothing to do with the color : it's in the name "super redbelly". 
However the reticulated looks might be different from other redbellies, so "reticulated redbellies" might indeed be a variant. After all, superred and reticulated have not always been considered the same. For long they have been considered seperate variants.
Am I misunderstanding you, or are you almost saying the same : that superred is not about the color, but the reticulated body and clear eyes ?

Like I said, you got me doubting on the subject... especially since over here in Europe the common name "reticulated" has never been heard of, though "superreds" have made their way to the European market.

From what area are they caught GG ?


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Do you know the geographical locality of these specimen GG ?


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## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

does anyone have anymore pics of the SUPER REDS ? besides the ones on aquascape ....thats the only pic i have seen that looks a lil different ...i mean someone must own some SUPER REDS right ? i would like to see if there is any difference when they become bigger from the normal reds i guess, so far i havent seen anything


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## dmackey (Jan 26, 2010)

shiver905 said:


> To me,
> 
> Super Reds is just a name.
> It means nothing at all.
> ...


exactly thats what im really thinking......just figured i would ask the fellas on here since alot of guys have alot more knowledge with these fish than myself , but im thinking its just a term vendors use to sell more rbp. mine were blood red at one point also so i know what ya mean....just trying to get to the bottom of this so called myth lol...


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

CombiChrist said:


> Well I would not say it has nothing to do with the color : it's in the name "super redbelly".
> However the reticulated looks might be different from other redbellies, so "reticulated redbellies" might indeed be a variant. After all, superred and reticulated have not always been considered the same. For long they have been considered seperate variants.
> Am I misunderstanding you, or are you almost saying the same : that superred is not about the color, but the reticulated body and clear eyes ?
> 
> ...


I remember when the label "Super reds" was coined...it was from a batch of P. nattereri that either Pedro or George had imported from Northern Brazil. The term was made up when the first hobbyist posted up pictures of them in his tank. It may have been the color that sparked someone to use that term...but I have seen tank raised nattereri with spectacular color...and super reds with average color...so a fish is not a super red based on its color...it is a super red based on where it was collected. Reticulated is just the term to describe a super reds spotting&#8230;it isnt a different variant. The spotting is also referred to as snakeskin. It is something that...when young...makes them easy to tell from other nattereri. If you are trying to ID a super red....color would not come into play because it can be manipulated by diet or water conditions. Spotting cant be changed.

So basically&#8230;super red refers to a variant of P. nattereri that is caught in Northern Brazil. When young&#8230;this fish has a reticulated spotting pattern, elongated body, and clear eyes. I do not know what they look like when they grow out because I don't know if anyone has actually documented them from a small fish to an adult. Maybe I will do this with my next tank.

The reason there is so much confusion is because you have hobbyists labeling any wild caught nattereri a super red&#8230;well&#8230;.there is a reason dealers sell super reds and wild caught nattereri.....because the term super red was applied to one specific variant of wild caught nattereri. You can ask Pedro where they are caught&#8230;he imports them often.

You can believe me or not....but I have been in this hobby a while...and the term Super red has only been used the last 7 or 8 years.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. It seems to be an new name indeed and a pretty confusing one since by now I've seen members selling or buying their fish as super-reds, just because they are red...
Might be interesting to get some documented growth report of those









I'll ask Pedro for locality, thanks so far.


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