# does the Holandi species exist????



## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

There is a wholesaler I get fish from advertising 5" Holandi fish for $30.00... I am no professional and very poor @ identify fish... I recieved a phone call from a friend saying the fish doesn't exist... Here is a copy of there piranha section
30143 PIRANHA, BLACK (GUYANA) 4-5"+ 30.00
30173 PIRANHA, GOLDEN (SERRA. GIBBUS)	5" 30.00
30176 PIRANHA, HOLANDI	5" 30.00
30179 *PIRANHA, RED BELLY	SM 2.50
30188 PIRANHA, RED BELLY (QUARTER) 4.00
30202 PIRANHA, RED BELLY (1/2 DOLLAR) 7.50
30217 PIRANHA, WIMPLE (FEW LEFT)	2.5" 20.00

This is the reason I asked about the Gibbus.. I don't undersantd how a dealer can sell fish that aren't what they are suppose to be... Please advise me about this Holandi.... I think for the size.. even if It were a Rhom would be a good price... I just don't want to drive 300 miles for something I aready have...... All replies will be appeciated...... If this fish exists and any one has one.. I would love to see a picture before Thursday..... If I have an idea what the fish looks like.. I will make the drive and purchase 5 for my collection...


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Your best friend:
Franks site


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/hollandi.html

Quote from opefe:
"S. hollandi has not been authenticated as a true species, though the name is still considered a valid name."

Frank Im confused. Although this quote is the first line of the Hollandi description, the pics above show and old photo and a new photo. The two look similar, so I dont understand how hollandi has not be authenticated as a true species yet when it looks like the fish is right there. Am i missing something?

~Dj


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

(Photo on Left)Holotype of S. hollandi, photo courtesy of Dr. William L. Fink. (Photo on Right) Photo of S. eigenmanni Peru, photo courtesy of George Fear (Shark Aquarium).


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Maybe I look too much into things, but I have notice the spelling of his hollandi it incorrect... Could that be a loop hole for him selling the fish.. And if proven wrong.. he can say I never sold a "Hollandi" it was a Holandi you bought... regardless of that... If it is eigenmanni it would still be a great deal... Thanks for the advice. and pics...... I am getting frustrated with buying pirnahas.... I say I have what I buy, and people then call me ingnotant and a liar... Maybe ignorant.. But not a liar <well not on pourpose>.....I will study more about these fascinating fish... I am planning on taking a class on fish physiology.... If If doesn't have pre-requisites.... I will be posting some more pics of some of my Piranhas, I am clueless to what they are....
I am also planning a trip to South America.. Maybe I can collect something I haven't seen.... Getting it home to the US... will be another problem... But were there is a will there is a way

Yours Truely
The one and only Serrasalmus_collector.......

I collect but never sell

he he he


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

> Maybe I look too much into things, but I have notice the spelling of his hollandi it incorrect... Could that be a loop hole for him selling the fish.. And if proven wrong.. he can say I never sold a "Hollandi" it was a Holandi you bought... regardless of that


No, you're looking too much into things. The mere listing of S. hollandi suggests that either the seller is misinformed or intentionally misleading people. The spelling could just be erroneous.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> (Photo on Left)Holotype of S. hollandi, photo courtesy of Dr. William L. Fink. (Photo on Right) Photo of S. eigenmanni Peru, photo courtesy of George Fear (Shark Aquarium).


See what a little extra reading on my part would have done. These [email protected] Genetics midterms are racking my brain.









~Dj


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Apr 29 2003, 01:49 AM


Regarding your PM about asking for other sites with better photos and descriptions. I direct you to this opening remark to my web page on piranhas descriptions and photos

_Piranha information (scientific data) genera: Pygocentrus, Serrasalmus, Pristobrycon, Pygopristis, Catoprion, and Metynnis. Material is updated regularly and is current! No published piranha books are used for this information. It is authentic scientific information collected by authors who are strict ichthyologists in piranha studies._

You will find that OPEFE is widely copied and used not only by hobbyists but also used by research students in schools, colleges and universities when it comes to research material. The material here is used as a stepping stone to deeper research, especially by National Geographic and Discovery Channel. It is also often cited in serious Scientific research papers for school project at the university level. So please do not simply discount my work and the work of the scientific community because it does not fit a certain pattern of simplicity.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I wasn't saying anything bad.. There are just so many sights that are based off speculation, and personal beliefs... Hell some are just there to be there... I think you have a wonderful sight.. I was just curious as too if there were any other sight such as yours.... Not for cross reference, but for additional research...I have read everything on your sight up to date..... I am eager to learn more about the serrasalmus species. Most of the books still user serrasalmus piraya, and serrasalmus notatus... I don't want to be trapped in the past on terminology in piranhas....
Please don't think I was being disrespectfull... I'm just tryin to find as many accurate sights as I can.....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Apr 29 2003, 02:13 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I wasn't saying anything bad.. There are just so many sights that are based off speculation, and personal beliefs... Hell some are just there to be there... I think you have a wonderful sight.. I was just curious as too if there were any other sight such as yours.... Not for cross reference, but for additional research...I have read everything on your sight up to date..... I am eager to learn more about the serrasalmus species. Most of the books still user serrasalmus piraya, and serrasalmus notatus... I don't want to be trapped in the past on terminology in piranhas....
> Please don't think I was being disrespectfull... I'm just tryin to find as many accurate sights as I can.....


There are none to my knowledge other than PDF material on host specific parasites and probably some material on egg maturation which is already found at OPEFE.

I'm afraid you will have to simply do a widespectrum search on any given species and see what is out there. The information I post for OPEFE is material still in infancy of research and a few (like S. altispinis & S. hastatus, compressus and altuvei) was given to OPEFE as a first public release for non-scientists. There is still much more material that I have not posted and not ready for public release yet.

In your search stick to the PDF material as that information is mostly published by credible scientific resources and not hobbyists.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> There is still much more material that I have not posted and not ready for public release yet.


Frank I think that we all know that the government is secretly creating a "super-piranha" that can survive in salt water. You can stop the sharade now...























Okay sorry, back to being serious. :sad:

~Dj


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> InSinUAsian Posted on Apr 29 2003, 03:21 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (hastatus @ Apr 28 2003, 07:49 PM)
> There is still much more material that I have not posted and not ready for public release yet.
> ...


 I'm designing a species as I type this that is programmed to enter the toilet drain while you are sitting there on the stool to bite off nonsense replies like this one.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

He he he... If only you knew... I am super Pirnaha.. I can walk,talk,type, fly, and devoure and army to a skeleton in 5 mins or less......he he he

Back to the serious


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

serrasalmus_collector said:


> He he he... If only you knew... I am super Pirnaha.. I can walk,talk,type, fly, and devoure and army to a skeleton in 5 mins or less......he he he
> 
> Back to the serious


S_C,

This is why we are so fortunate to have people like Frank, Neo, and others on this site. There is so much junk out on the Internet about these creatures that all it ends up doing is confusing/misinforming people. I created this piranha science section on this site specifically for Frank and others to dispell some of the rumors and mistruths that are so prevalant on all hobbyist sites (including this one!).

Enough ego stroking....back to business.


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