# getting the out of the season



## «PïRåñHªß¥të» (May 5, 2003)

i dont know why but my reds always breed around july to aug. months how can i get them to breed constantly?


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Wow there could be a number of parameters creating only breeding duing a certain time os the year. Do you have the fish near a window??? My guess would be natural rise and setting of the sun. Do you normally have an abundance of storms that time of the year??? Atmospheric pressure drops could be triggering it. Perhaps your water supply goes through a change during those months. All these factors play a major role in getting piranhas to spawn.

If the fish tank is getting sunlight that could be it. Your municipal water supply company may be adding more things to the water during the warmmer months to keep down bacteria. I would test water now (Mainly Hardness both gH and Kh, along with PH , nitrite and nitrate levels) Record these testing. Then test again during the months they breed. Does your house get warmer during those months. Based on the type of heater in your tank. You tank may also be getting a raising, and lowering of temperature during the day an nighttime hours. These are major factors in spawning piranhas. I don't really breed the reds, but those are some of the factors I manupulate.

Since I don't know you heating, filtration and tank set-up along with overall home heating and cooling system; their could be alot of factors. The ones listed are a start. Look into them, and see if there is any form of a pattern during those months.

PS when I say test water, thats the tap water.


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## «PïRåñHªß¥të» (May 5, 2003)

Atmospheric pressure drops could be triggering it

thats what iam thinking


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

«PïRåñHªß¥të» said:


> Atmospheric pressure drops could be triggering it
> 
> thats what iam thinking


 That is a very hard thing to have any control over. Once the spring comes. I would look to weather forecasts. Get a 10 or 14 day forecast. When there is a predicted storm coming within 10 days. Start to lower your water levels. If your filtration can be adjusted start to restrict the filtration, and decrease the dissolved oxygen. Removing bubble strips and slowing down filtration can help reduce oxygen content. Since you only have 10 days. I would remove 10% of the water per day until only 30% remains. Raising or lowering the temp can vary with the fish. I don't know why but the temp can vary with fish.

I would personally try raising it to about 84 degrees. Once you are down to 30% and minimum aeration, monitor ammonia levels. If ammonia gets high you must remove some water and replenish with fresh water. Leave the tank alone until the storm comes. Once the storm comes, fill up to 75% with fresh cooler water. 78 degrees is good. Turn the filter on high. Blast your bubble strips. Do small daily water changes. I use a cycle 4 days water changes, and 3 days not. After your week cycle is done then fill to the top. Keep the 4 days on 3 days off&#8230; Watch the fish closely when you are on the 3 days off cycle. That's exactly how I breed wild reds.

If no success in a month. Try again, but lower the temperature when you lower the water. Then fill with warmer water. For some reason some fish trigger with cooler water when lowered, and some with warm. Warm is a good start. In the wild it can go down to shallow pools, heated up by the sun.

This may help you breed them during other months. Once it starts if water conditions are kept good, and you keep a scheduled water change, they should spawn many times.

Nike and Hollywood may have some less dramatic methods. I take my fish to the extreme, and they spawn at least 5 times. This works for me, but maybe not all.


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## nubsmoke (Feb 4, 2004)

I don't have much experience with anything but reds when it comes to breeding, but I can make my reds "start" anytime. I believe the "trigger"is water temperature with mine. I start doing partial water changes after a period of elevated temperature, and that's it. I think the key to breeding is leaving the fish alone! I keep all breeding fish in a separate part of my fishroom. It only gets natural light, so photoperiod probably has something to do w/ it. I just try to disturb them as little as possible, so no visitors! I agree with others on the more "hard to breed" varieties, serra. , caribe,piraya,in trying to simulate their natural habitats to encourage breeding. I feel the real key is letting them be, and water temperature.


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## «PïRåñHªß¥të» (May 5, 2003)

right now i cant re3ally try to span my reds because i have my brantii in with them also i need to put more plants in the tank cuz my reds demolished all the ones i had


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I personally like the challenge of breeding wild piranhas. I was hoping Nike or Hollywood would have given you some simpler methods. This rush dry season/ rainy season may help. But it is honestly better if you let the fish remain in shallow water for a month. Just hold tight, and wait for the first decent storm, and start filling the tank. If you are good with water parameters. There is nothing wrong with filling to 75% and doing a water change in about 4 hours. In the wild, its thousands of gallons of fresh water. I personally just designed an automatic water change system that does about a 150% water change on a 120 gallon tank a day.

Try to shift the water from the acidic dirty to a clean neutral level. Maintain a close to neutral level. That is about the most natural thing you can do. Since your fish have spawned that should be more than enough to trigger it during other months.

I don't know if these are some of the secrets people keep about breeding piranhas. No one showed me how. I spent a 3 months trial and error, and came up with something that worked repeat ably in my tanks. Do you change your feeding??? That is another factor to look into. Are other foods available during the months they breed????

I also do a shift in feeding my piranhas. Both quantity and what they eat in the shallow water. If you didn't modify your feeding. Don't do it. It can screw with the fish. There is a true story when my Cariba formed a death pool. I don't know why they didn't spawn. They pooled so tightly I couldn't separate them with a stick. And when I did, 1 of them jumped 3 feet and tried to bite my nose. This fish tried to attack me over 6 times. They were the most vicious shoal I ever seen. What they did to a live baby chick was like something you see on TV.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 27 2004, 02:07 PM
> I personally like the challenge of breeding wild piranhas. I was hoping Nike or Hollywood would have given you some simpler methods. This rush dry season/ rainy season may help. But it is honestly better if you let the fish remain in shallow water for a month. Just hold tight, and wait for the first decent storm, and start filling the tank. If you are good with water parameters. There is nothing wrong with filling to 75% and doing a water change in about 4 hours. In the wild, its thousands of gallons of fresh water. I personally just designed an automatic water change system that does about a 150% water change on a 120 gallon tank a day.
> 
> Try to shift the water from the acidic dirty to a clean neutral level. Maintain a close to neutral level. That is about the most natural thing you can do. Since your fish have spawned that should be more than enough to trigger it during other months.
> ...


Well, that is truly an inaccurate statement coming from you. Everyone on this forum has given you tons of information on breeding piranas, even the ones that have yet to be bred. Jim Smith has given you first hand info on how to breed cariba. I think part of the reason why you are having so little success is that you fiddle around to much with your fishes. Stressing them out while you experiment with water chemistry. While it is amirable you want "native" water conditions, it is near impossible to duplicate 100 % of the time because even natural water fluctuates on pH and temp values. Piranas are extremely adaptable critters and have been bred in almost any fresh water condition.

My advice to the young man asking about breeding piranas is this (already glossed over by Grosse Gurke). Keep the tank clean and good water/diet. Let the fishes pair off, leave them alone and let nature take its course. That is the only "real" secret to good fish breeding. The rest is superfluous and may turn off more people from attempting to breed them if you make it so scientific that even the fishes turn away.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I apologize. I assume he kept his water clean. I just gave him some of the things I personally do. It is true I was told step by step how to breed Cariba. Jim and I are decent friends. He told me there was a problem with repeatability. I personally decided to modify the methods laid out, and take a slightly different approach.

I will stand mute on the breeding of wild piranhas. I don't want to scare people from the hobby. I get excited over the manipulation of water parameters. That's my primary approach to breeding piranhas, but not the only method that works.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 27 2004, 06:03 PM
> I apologize. I assume he kept his water clean. I just gave him some of the things I personally do. It is true I was told step by step how to breed Cariba. Jim and I are decent friends. He told me there was a problem with repeatability. I personally decided to modify the methods laid out, and take a slightly different approach.
> 
> I will stand mute on the breeding of wild piranhas. I don't want to scare people from the hobby. I get excited over the manipulation of water parameters. That's my primary approach to breeding piranhas, but not the only method that works.


No reason to stand mute, just try not to over think what you are doing and keep it at levels that make sense to the reader. You're all over the board on your information. Its good information, just difficult to follow, even for me.



> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 27 2004, 06:03 PM
> I apologize. I assume he kept his water clean. I just gave him some of the things I personally do. It is true I was told step by step how to breed Cariba. *Jim and I are decent friends. He told me there was a problem with repeatability. I personally decided to modify the methods laid out, and take a slightly different approach.*


The bottom line here is that you have not had success yet<<<< that being the key word when you tinkered with the misused term "formula".

What this forum here is mostly geared towards is successful spawning of piranas that help hobbyists. You have had success with S. maculatus, that is information that can be shared. P. nattereri is being successfully bred by Nike and Hollywood, that to is info that can be shared. But the rest is untested, just like my cariba attempts. What I'm doing here is providing a photo record of what the fish is doing without making an assumption. If later, when a potential mate is introduced it becomes successful, then PFURY members have a record of what the potential male was doing before the mate was introduced. This would be a key element in helping to breed this fish along with the water chemistry.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

This is what guidline I use for wild piranhas. I try to taylor it to the individual biotope.

Wet Dry season in the Home aquarium

I normally don't share this with many, because it can excite intense canibalism. Feel free to experiment with it. Just use caution. In the wild the weak are killed to leave only the best stock to reproduce.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Its a good article, but the key sentence often overlooked is: "leave the fish in peace" which BTW is mentioned in your link and web site.


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## nubsmoke (Feb 4, 2004)

Hey guys , not to interupt your discussion, but isn't that kinda what I said ?Leave them alone, don't mess too much. I don't have pictures, but I have been breeding
my reds for 3 years, with decent enough sucess. I don't have scientific data about 
water parameters, but I have seen the ways my fish react. As of yesterday, due to larger than normal water changes, due to higher than normal temperatures, incited my red tanks to start! I have 3 pits in 2 tanks, darker than normal fish 
chasing others, defending the pits, and a couple of excessive bites! I have just came in off a 3 year break from these message boards, and the pirhana hobby,
but I have three years of unadultered experience in observing what was available
in1999/2000. The standard red, splilo cf, splilo gold/or whatever it is, numerous 
small rhoms grown from young to 4-5 inches, had a striolatus , met a cold death
due to heater malfunction, even tried shoaling small(4-5inch) rhoms, with so-so
results. So I am new , but the new guy does bring something to the table! I think
the best way is K.I.S.S. , keep it simple stupid, for those of us not-so-scientific!


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I am sorry. I was just sharing my personal methods of exploring the breeding of no captive piranhas. There are as many ways to breed a fish as there are to dribble a basketball.

But I do leave my fish alone. They are secluded in my basement, and no one goes down there but me. I am just exploring breeding and learning. I collect all the information I can, them formulate a docmented expreriment.

Sorry if I got off the track


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> nubsmoke Posted on Feb 27 2004, 06:51 PM
> Hey guys , not to interupt your discussion, but isn't that kinda what I said ?Leave them alone, don't mess too much. I don't have pictures, but I have been breeding
> my reds for 3 years, with decent enough sucess. I don't have scientific data about
> water parameters, but I have seen the ways my fish react. As of yesterday, due to larger than normal water changes, due to higher than normal temperatures, incited my red tanks to start! I have 3 pits in 2 tanks, darker than normal fish
> ...


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## nubsmoke (Feb 4, 2004)

Hey serra. collector, I respect your methods/info. I was'nt knocking .I respect anyone willing to spend time/money for knowledge! I have almost 1000gallons
of fish, and I know the work it takes. You seem real dedicated, I respect that!
Just wanted to let you know .


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

nubsmoke said:


> Hey serra. collector, I respect your methods/info. I was'nt knocking .I respect anyone willing to spend time/money for knowledge! I have almost 1000gallons
> of fish, and I know the work it takes. You seem real dedicated, I respect that!
> Just wanted to let you know .


 THank you. I am still kinda new to the hobby. Just started my 2nd year. My goal is to breed everything I can get my hands on. And that means shoaling them to. Welcome to P-fury... You have many years into the hobby and are also dedicated.

Good luck in all that you do!!!


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## tecknik (Jul 18, 2003)

Great thread! I've always wanted to get my caribas in the mood. I tried in the past when I had a bigger shoal but my mistake was that I wanted to see results right away. What I learned is that you cannot rush results. IMO, it will be a trial and error and will definately take time and patience. Only time will tell if they will breed. Good water quality, their sense of being comfortable, and just leaving them alone as stated above are factors that can definately help. After reading this thread and numerous past threads, I think I will try again. I believe I have two females in my cariba shoal. They seem to be more thicker and have more gurth than the other three. But this is just pure speculation. I dont want to rule out that they are females until I actually see spawning take place.


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## «PïRåñHªß¥të» (May 5, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 27 2004, 02:07
> > My advice to the young man asking about breeding piranas is this (already glossed over by Grosse Gurke). Keep the tank clean and good water/diet. Let the fishes pair off, leave them alone and let nature take its course. That is the only "real" secret to good fish breeding. The rest is superfluous and may turn off more people from attempting to breed them if you make it so scientific that even the fishes turn away.
> 
> 
> ...


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I am sorry if I went overboard on methods of breeding. Just try the lowering of the water, and fill the tank when a thunder storm comes. I bet you have success.

Remove atleast 50%, and let is stay @ the level untill the storm. Give it a try. You honestly have nothing to lose. I am personaly having problems breeding in the winter, because we have had no snow storms. There are many other methods. But those work repeatably for me. Many breeders do the largest waterchanges during storms. That is a fact. I will E-mail you some information on light timming for breeding piranhas... But the light may not be as critical as the fresh clean water, and atmosperic pressure drop.


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## nubsmoke (Feb 4, 2004)

Like I said earlier, I have had my 4-5 year ,7-10 inch reds , start chasing/making nests just the past couple of days. I mean the darkest coloration, agression like crazy, pits on both ends of 2 tanks. One unlucky guy has a wound on his nape 
region, the exact size of a full bite. This happens at regular intervals since2001, 
right when I do the routine. Elevate temp.(82-84) , unplug one filter, then drop
temp with water change(74-76). I have only fed Jumbomin food sticks , so live food/varied diet was'nt necessary. They only have minimal plastic plants, and have
always used pits in gravel. The only thing they have only natural light from 1 window. So if they have bred once, just repeat what you did the first times. Just try
it, the simple things sometimes work!


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