# NEW 55 gallon tank and need it setup in a hurry!



## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Hey all,

First I just want to say thanks to everyone that shares info on this forum. This has to be one of the best boards I've ever been around. I've been llurking for months but just setup an account a few days ago. The info contained here is invaluable and there are some VERY knowledgeable members that are very giving with great info. I appreciate it!

The issue at hand...

We went to Oregon this past weekend for fun and piranhas. We visited a petstore and they were trying to sell dime sized fish for $5 a piece. We ended up going to another one and dealing with some of the BEST people we talked to the entire time. The girls at Animal House were great. We ended up talking them down from $10 for a 2"-2.5" RBP to $5 a piece because we were going to get 24 of them. After they bagged the 24 I decided I wanted to get a tank setup too so I bought the last 7 from them. We drove home across the border and they all lived fine in a styrofoam cooler and some hand warmers. We didn't get any floaters although a few got beat up during the trip.

My buddy has a 55 hex that he had setup for some huge fish (I have no clue what they are but he's had them forever). He has two powerheads and a really nice stand alone filter. He has an established tank but I honestly don't think he's paying enough attention to all his different levels. The piranha have eaten one of the big fish and 3 of the other piranhas so far. They are devouring the feeders he has in the tank also. They seem very active and decently healthy but it looks like they are removing each others scales and fins. They don't look super good and you can tell they are kicking each others asses. I know you shouldn't have that many in a tank that size but I just bought my setup last night. I went with a Top Fin 55 gallon Combo from Petsmart. I also bought 75 lbs of epoxy coated river rock and two huge acrylic tree root pieces. I also bought about 12 different plastic plants of various sizes. I have not setup the tank yet because I was reading about the cycling and everything else involved.

Now I am worried my friends tank isn't suitable for the fish and I think the sooner I get them out the better chance I have of keeping healthy fish in my own tank. He thinks he knows it all so I've tried to tell him numerous times to check his levels and setup to make sure the RBP's are going to keep doing well. He doesn't listen and says that it is fine because all of the other fish have thrived for so long. I'll give him credit that his big fish are perfectly healthy and look very good. Well, they did until the RBP started eating their fins and chunking them out near the middle of their forehead.

I'm going to fill and start my tank tonight but I'm really trying to do the fastest method so I can get my 7 RBP in my own tank ASAP. I've decided to go the fishless route but it looks like I'm 10 days out with that setup. I don't have the same filters as his because mine are top dual filters while he has a huge thing under his hex cabinet. I don't think I can use his media from that? I'd love to have the tank cycled in under a week. I think if I wait much longer the RBP are going to eat each other alive and cause all sorts of fin and scale damage to each other.

Is there any way I can get the tank sufficient in less than 10 days? Unlike my buddy I bought all the water testing supplies as well as a nice stess kote additive. I also have the dechloranation/slime adding tablets. I'm hoping to try and get my fish out of his tank ASAP. I know 7 in the aquarium is too much but I figure I'll lose one or two anyways. If I get 5 that grow to a decent size I will sell two of them and keep the best three for myself.

Any info would be greatly appreciated. I have read all the cycle faq's but I'm really trying to see if there is anything I can do to get this moving even faster. I looked around for Bio Spira but I don't think they sell it at my LPS.

This is my current setup. I have a much nicer looking inside though with plenty of plants and hiding spots for the nervous RBP. I don't have a powerhead yet but I will add one next week when I get paid. http://www.petfish.net/reviews/55g.php

Kind Regards,

Brian


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## mully2003 (Jan 24, 2005)

Wow! You sure do like to type. I didn't read the entire thing but from what I gather you need to cycle your tank and you want to do it as fast as possible. I see two options here. First, let you tank run normal and it would take about 2-3 weeks for it to cycle completely. Or depending if you have bio media in your filter, you could buy bio spira and add that to your tank. Bio spira is food for the bacteria you need to grow in your tank. I've never used it before but I hear good things. GL


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## xdrylandx (Dec 28, 2005)

My tank cycled in a 5 days using Bio-Spira. But that was using an old filter cartridge and 20 Rosey Reds for Ammo. From what I hear you can put your fish in 24hrs after using Bio-Spira.


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Thanks for the info! I'll keep looking for Bio-Spira but I don't seem to be able to track it down locally. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. I type extremely fast so a large post might take me a few minutes. I forget that some people read really slow 

Regards,

Brian


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## mully2003 (Jan 24, 2005)

lotsofish said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll keep looking for Bio-Spira but I don't seem to be able to track it down locally. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. I type extremely fast so a large post might take me a few minutes. I forget that some people read really slow
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian


Lol thats a shot at me isn't it


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

mully2003 said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll keep looking for Bio-Spira but I don't seem to be able to track it down locally. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. I type extremely fast so a large post might take me a few minutes. I forget that some people read really slow
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian


Lol thats a shot at me isn't it








[/quote]

LOL! *Not* at all... Here's the pointless back story to my post. I've been an avid reader my entire life and I was reading Stephen King novels in a week in second grade. I read extremely quickly and type quickly as well. That post is pretty typical of my "question" asking posts. I like to give as much info as possible because if you don't give it, people usually ask for it. Thanks again for your time. I setup the entire tank last night and conditioned the water. I'll start adding my ammonia today and pursuing the fishless method of cycling. That sounds like the quickest way for me to get my RBP's home. Time is of the essence and I don't think they are going to continue to do very well in my buddies tank. He just doesn't have the attention to detail required to take care of anything that he can't just drop some food and water in once in awhile. Worse comes to worse if his tank is looking bad and the RBP's are unhealthy I will just order 5 3"ers from the net. I don't want to risk screwing up my brand new tank with diseased or unhealthy animals. I'm a perfectionist and stickler for details.

Kind Regards,

Brian


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## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

lotsofish said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll keep looking for Bio-Spira but I don't seem to be able to track it down locally. Any more info would be greatly appreciated. I type extremely fast so a large post might take me a few minutes. I forget that some people read really slow
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian


Lol thats a shot at me isn't it








[/quote]

LOL! *Not* at all... Here's the pointless back story to my post. I've been an avid reader my entire life and I was reading Stephen King novels in a week in second grade. I read extremely quickly and type quickly as well. That post is pretty typical of my "question" asking posts. I like to give as much info as possible because if you don't give it, people usually ask for it. Thanks again for your time. I setup the entire tank last night and conditioned the water. I'll start adding my ammonia today and pursuing the fishless method of cycling. That sounds like the quickest way for me to get my RBP's home. Time is of the essence and I don't think they are going to continue to do very well in my buddies tank. He just doesn't have the attention to detail required to take care of anything that he can't just drop some food and water in once in awhile. Worse comes to worse if his tank is looking bad and the RBP's are unhealthy I will just order 5 3"ers from the net. I don't want to risk screwing up my brand new tank with diseased or unhealthy animals. I'm a perfectionist and stickler for details.

Kind Regards,

Brian
[/quote]

Forget the Bio_spira. Take a lot of media out of his filter and hang it in your tank in a panyhose or something. Make sure you de-chlorinate the water before doing so. Give the tank an ammonia source (goldfish, ammonia drops) and it should cycle almost immediately.

I have always put my piranha in at the same time as setting up the tank when I have a large amount of filter media.

Your best bet would actually be to take his filter and run it on your tank for the first week along with your new filters. Then you would have no problems for sure.

Rooner


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Down to 17 out of the original 32 in my buddies tank. My buddy said to just take my 7 and put them into my tank before they are all dead. I guess we'll see how well they do in a fresh uncycled tank.







Not what I wanted to do but it is either that or they die in my buddies tank. At least in my tank they won't be overcrowded and living in improper water conditions. I hope they don't all float on me.

Regards,

Brian


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Eh... I've been testing daily and my pH is 8.3 or so. I don't think the piranha will survive in that with my tank. Any thoughts? They are in a bad situation now but I'd rather not move them to mine if it is going to be worse.

Best Regards,

Brian


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## mully2003 (Jan 24, 2005)

lotsofish said:


> Eh... I've been testing daily and my pH is 8.3 or so. I don't think the piranha will survive in that with my tank. Any thoughts? They are in a bad situation now but I'd rather not move them to mine if it is going to be worse.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Brian


You might want to get some stuff from a lfs to lower the pH. Its a temperary fix. What are your other readings from your tests? How long has the tank been cycling for now?


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

mully2003 said:


> Eh... I've been testing daily and my pH is 8.3 or so. I don't think the piranha will survive in that with my tank. Any thoughts? They are in a bad situation now but I'd rather not move them to mine if it is going to be worse.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Brian


You might want to get some stuff from a lfs to lower the pH. Its a temperary fix. What are your other readings from your tests? How long has the tank been cycling for now?
[/quote]

Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Ammonia - miniscule
Hardness - Soft
pH - 8.3

She's been up and running for about 5 days now. My buddy didn't do much research and put 32 2" RBP in a 55 hex along with a dozen goldfish and three huge ciclids and a monster pleco. The tank is beyond overstocked. He was losing a P or two a day but the other day 6 were floating. He doesn't check his numbers or anything. He just feeds them and adds water as necessary. I'll admit his huge fish have been and still are in great shape but the P's are slowly dying. He has a really nice canister and two powerheads with lots of cover but I have no idea what his numbers are. I'll have to bring my test supplies over and check it out. I fear that if I don't take a few soon that they will all be dead. He told me the sooner I take them the better. I tried tracking down Bio-Spira to jump start my tank but I've been having problems with LPS stocking it. I am going to try and get it tomorrow and drive around to as many FPS as possible. Basically, if I don't take these little RBP soon, they will most likely all be dead before my tank is "properly" cycled. I'm at my wits end, I was hoping to have my tank cycled and setup properly before I put them in but it looks like my tank is still going to give them a better chance than my buddies. When we first bought them he told me he was checking his levels and making sure it would be proper but I don't honestly think he really cares or checked anything. He thinks he knows everything so when I try to tell him about all the stuff I've learned on here he pretty much blows me off. I just don't know what to do. I know my tank isn't cycled properly. I'm a perfectionist so I was trying to get everything perfect before they came home. Their current situation is dictating that I move them ASAP. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Best Regards,

Brian


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

My tap water is pH 8.0 so something in my tank increased the pH to 8.3-8.4. I washed my epoxy coated gravel several times and flushed it around a bowl of water before adding into the tank. I also washed the plastic plants in warm water and soaked them and sloshed them around in a bowl of water. I also washed the acrylic fake tree root pieces that provide the shelter for my RBPs. Not sure which but something raised my pH .3-.4 or so. Any thoughts? Can I just do a water change to try and level it back out a little lower?

I picked up a 300 gph powerhead to stimulate the surface water and provide a swimable current for the RBP. I used the calculator and it said 300 gph would be suitable for my 55g setup. I also bought some a pH 7.0 for the tank. I'm thinking my pH should stabilize after I do a water change. I don't have a huge issue with constantly monitoring the pH if I need to. I figured 7.0 should be a nice neutral easier to maintain number and the stuff I bought will treat 1000 gallons of water so it should last me awhile.

I also picked up some Eco-Start which is supposed to help "Establish Biological Filtration in New Aquariums"

Here's an excerpt from the bottle:

_*Kent Eco-Start is a concentrated blend of microorganisms that can establish efficient biological filtration in new aquarium setups, or re-establish/boost biological filtration in existing systems. These microbes break down ammonia, nitrite, and many organic nutrients which can negatively impact aquarium inhabitants. After Eco-Start use, the biological filtration system will have been seeded with an adequate number of microorganisms to ensure rapid break-down of ammonia and nitrite.*_

I'm not sure if this will help or not but every place I went to (at least 6 or 7) said they don't carry or deal with Bio-Spira after recent bad results.

I'll probably be adding the RBP in tonight after I put the pH balance 7.0 in and install the powerhead. I went to my buddies last night to check on the babies and they are now 2.5-3". They have fat little bellies and are doing fairly well considering the lack of attention to the tank and parameters. They all hide in the top of the tank in this huge plastic plant that is suctioned off to the side. The large fish he has live in the bottom area. He said I should get mine ASAP so I guess tonight is the night. He offered to give me one of his slate rocks to transfer over some media. I don't know if this will help any.

Best Regards,

Brian


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

The pH stuff didn't change my water at all even with higher than normal dosing. I'm guessing I bought some bunk stuff. Ug... I don't think the tank is ever going to be setup enough







Back to the drawing board... I didn't pickup the RBPs last night (obviously).

Kind Regards,

Brian


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

If you use bio spira, make sure the tank has an ammonia reading prior to puttin the spira in the tank....


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

timmy said:


> If you use bio spira, make sure the tank has an ammonia reading prior to puttin the spira in the tank....


Thanks for the reply. I think I might skip the Bio-Spira but I had heard to make sure you have enough ammonia to support it if you put it in the tank. Right now I'm trying to figure out why my pH is so high. 2x the normal dosing of the pH 7.0 Neutral Regulator resulted in no or miniscule change in my pH. I'm starting to wonder if I got bad test strips because every reading is showing the same on all of them.

Regards,

Brian


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## Eating Machine (Jan 27, 2006)

Rooner said:


> Forget the Bio_spira. Take a lot of media out of his filter and hang it in your tank
> 
> Give the tank an ammonia source (goldfish, ammonia drops) and it should cycle almost immediately.
> 
> Rooner


That's what I was going to say.

Don't start trying to grow your own bacteria from scratch when your buddy has some you can use to get your tank's bacteria up and running a whole lot faster.


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Can I use rocks from his tank? He has a huge canister filter so it isn't the same as my own. I bought some peat granulars to put in my filter bag. I was hoping it might help out with the high pH. I just have to figure out how much is necessary to keep the tank stable. I really wish my water wasn't so high in its pH. I can see this having to be something I constantly monitor. I hope I don't screw up and kill the fish (when and if I ever get the tank setup so they can be moved into it) I bought a much nicer pH test kit so I'll get more accurate results tonight. I don't have a computer right now so my only access is my friends house.

Thanks for the replies.

Best Regards,

Brian


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

I'm going to add the Peat Granulars into my filter bags tonight. I'm hoping to get a nice stable pH going so I can maintain it. I also will test the water with my new test kit to get a better measurement. I don't think the strips are doing a very good job.

Best Regards,

Brian


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## Zirca (Jan 21, 2006)

lotsofish said:


> I'm going to add the Peat Granulars into my filter bags tonight. I'm hoping to get a nice stable pH going so I can maintain it. I also will test the water with my new test kit to get a better measurement. I don't think the strips are doing a very good job.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Brian


I wouldn't put your p's in a tank that hasn't yet cycled. I just learned this the hard way. I had 6, baby rbp's just die on me when the cycle spikes started to kick in. I'm now just waiting for the Nitrites to lower. Ammonia is zero, but he nitrite levels are 2.0ppm. I'm hoping I'll have better luck post cycle.

Dan


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I'm really trying to do this all right. I want nothing more than a tank full of healthy RBP









Kind Regards,

Brian


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

I removed the carbon from my filters and placed the filter bag about half full of Peat Granulars. The pH seemed to be lower but I'll verify tomorrow after the Peat has had a chance to get into the tank. I'm finally getting an ammonia reading of about .4 ppm. I'm hoping the cycle has started. I don't have any nitrite or nitrate readings yet. I decided to go with lady luck and leave the baby RBP in my buddies tank until mine is 100% cycled and ready to go. Thanks for all the help. I will intermitantly refresh the topic to list my progress.

Kind Regards,

Brian


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## whitetrash88 (Jan 31, 2006)

i am getting some rbp's for the first time an i dont know how to set up the tank and do the whole thing with the water and how long it takes to actually put the piranhas in so if any one would help me i would be very happy thanks


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## Darkwolf2790 (Nov 22, 2005)

Did I just read this right .....????? You say you have read about this topic ....... so heres my ? What on earth made you think you could put 32 2" reds into a 55 HEX !!!!! now if i miss read this and this is not the case i am sorry but comeon.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

get some media from your buddies tank. grab his carbon or whatever he uses in his can's, then throw it in your filter, just stuff it behind the cartridge or put it in the can...depending on what type of filter you have...anyway, then throw your p's in and the tank will cycle in a day or two. really fast.


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## yourhead (Jan 22, 2006)

Darkwolf said:


> Did I just read this right .....????? You say you have read about this topic ....... so heres my ? What on earth made you think you could put 32 2" reds into a 55 HEX !!!!! now if i miss read this and this is not the case i am sorry but comeon.


My buddy did this. I told him he was overstocking. If you read my first post you can see why I'm trying to get my RBPs out of his tank. It just came down to me having to get my tank cycled. I thought I could get it cycled sooner. I 100% agree that he shouldn't have thrown that many into the tank but its his tank and his money and he didn't want to hear it from me or any of my other friends. He's down to 17 now. I'm still trying to get my RBP into my tank but it hasn't completed a cycle yet. I have a 55 long for just 5 2" RBP. I plan on keeping the best three once they get 6-7" long and selling the other two. Unlike some people I believe on doing things right and that is the reason for my posts.

Best Regards,

Brian


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