# Do not play with these at home!



## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

This is a new aquisition, her parents are from a pakistan locality.

She is still young, but isn't she a beaut!


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Wow....
Is that your Personnel specimen?
Im sure it is .....
She is a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOur not scared to handle her?
I would be scared out of my mind..........


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

None of my venomus "scare" me...but that does not mean I do not respect the animal, and what it is capable of. "handling" venomous taxa is NEVER a good idea. When keeping captive specimens, it is paramount that the keeper has appropriate experience, caging, and equipment. Tools such as shift boxes, locking hide boxes, togs, hooks, tubes, etc... should be mandatory.

and in cases such as this snake, good eye protection, preferably full face shield.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

nice


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

CrocKeeper said:


> None of my venomus "scare" me...but that does not mean I do not respect the animal, and what it is capable of. "handling" venomous taxa is NEVER a good idea. When keeping captive specimens, it is paramount that the keeper has appropriate experience, caging, and equipment. Tools such as shift boxes, locking hide boxes, togs, hooks, tubes, etc... should be mandatory.


 oh For sure.......Im sure the respect level is peaking..........They would get nothing less from me......
Mad respect for ya CK.....You got some big balls.......
thanks for sharing the info.....


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

St. Croiux!!!!!!!!!!! Cruzan coconut baby.....of course not while cleaning venomous enclosures...wouldn't want to be a statistic now...


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

of course if you take away all the melanin, she would look a lot like this girl...


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## TimmyTeam (Jun 20, 2003)

shes hot


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## Kory (Jun 5, 2003)

Nice looking snake


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## IDONTKARE47 (Jan 5, 2004)

wow i want one


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## Fruitbat (Jan 2, 2004)

Nice cobra!

The only reptile that I ever kept in captivity that truly scared the heck out of me was a young adult Puff Adder, _Bitis arietans_. Typical of the species he was normally very sluggish but the instant a rodent was introduced to his cage he perked up and the strike was STUNNINGLY fast!!! I've kept many pit vipers and other fast strikers but I've NEVER seen anything as fast as that Puff! There's just something about looking at that heavy-set body with a head as big as my hand (with an extra endowment of venom glands) and knowing how fast it was that actually took me beyond the realm of respect and into the real of downright fear every time I had to clean his cage.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

wow...all i can say is you got major b*lls housing those beautys...beautiful they are


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## STIFFY (Jul 9, 2003)

Your crazy :rasp:


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Holly crap that is freakin awesome! Much respect to you my friend!


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## StuartDanger (Aug 7, 2003)

nice snake!


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

All of the Bitis are very fast moving snakes, and while they definately appear to be some of the fastest snakes in the world, the honor of the fastest strike belongs to the prairie rattlesnake (_Crotalus _ _viridis_). Part of the deception is exactly the observations already recounted...they are heavy-bodied snakes that look incapable of speed....which makes them dangerous because many keepers of Bitis species become complacecent and lacidasical toward their charges, which sets them up for potentially lethal bites. :sad: I lost a friend to a bite from his _Bitis _ _nasicornis_, Rhinocerous viper last year...he was an experienced keeper, and did something very foolish, he replaced a water bowl into the enclosure; after photographing the snake eating, with his *hand*, resulting in a bite directly to the back of his hand, where one of the extroadinarily long fangs typical of the genus(gaboons _B_. _gabonica _ have the longest fangs of any venomous snake as they can exceeed 2" in length!!!!) hung in a vein in the back of his hand resulting in the entire contens of one venom gland being delivered intravenously. He did not stand a chance. I bring this up to point out that the keeping of venomous snakes or other taxa of serious consequence (Blue-ring octopi _Hapalochlaena _ _maculosa_, and _H_. _lunulata _
come to mind) should not be done whimsically. Even experienced keepers slip up, and occasionally get bitten.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)




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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

holy crap....he died?!!? sorry to hear of that man!


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

sorry to hear that..











> Even experienced keepers slip up, and occasionally get bitten.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

ouch, i didnt read that post by croc before i posted, i hope i didnt offend you, i was referring to the snakes.

im truly sorry if i offended you croc. and im sorry for the loss


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

No offense taken....
I figured you had only looked at the pics and not actually read the posts...


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

wow man super sweet snake









i would like to get into venomouse snakes sometime but not for a while, i am not very mature yet :laugh:

i have very high respect for you and your snakes man for the care and caution you have


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## Fruitbat (Jan 2, 2004)

I certainly agree wholeheartedly with CrocKeeper's comment for those of you who keep venomous species of any kind. Many years ago I was involved in venom research (mainly working on the presence or absence of Hyaluronidase in venoms from different taxa) so I had occasion to keep quite a variety of venomous creatures. These are NOT creatures to be trifled with! Too many people, thrilled at the prospect of keeping something 'dangerous and cool', will get in WAY over their heads and get ahold of something that they really don't know how to take care of safely.

In those days I used to make multiple treks to the Big Bend area of Texas in search of various reptiles and arthropods. MAN!! The stories I could tell!! This is an area where there are multiple species of rattlesnake. Western diamondbacks (_Crotalus atrox_), Mojave Rattlesnakes (_Crotalus scutulatus_), Black-tailed Rattlesnakes (_Crotalus molossus_), Rock Rattlesnakes (_Crotalus lepidus lepidus_) and Prairie Rattlesnakes (_Crotalus viridis_) are all pretty easy to find. Toss in the Trans-Pecos Copperhead (_Agkistrodon contortrix pictigaster_) and the Texas Coral Snake (_Micrurus fulvius_) and you've got a recipe for disaster. Of course....there were always other 'snake hunters' in the vicinity and you could pretty much count on a few of them getting bitten in the course of a summer (thankfully with relatively few fatalities).

I can recall one interesting event that took place in the Houston area. Seems that a young fellow found a small, jet-black snake underneath a log. It seemed relatively harmless and he let it crawl freely through his fingers. While he was playing with it he received a bite in the fleshy area between his thumb and forefinger. It was a relatively painless bite and he brushed away the few droplets of blood and thought no more about it. By the time he got home he was beginning to suffer from blurred vision, increased heartrate, rapid breathing, dizziness and tingling in the extremeties. Concerned, his father called the local hospital and described the symptoms and the snake (which his son still had in a jar). The folks at the hospital reassured him that there are no venomous snakes in Texas like the one he was describing and that the symptoms must be psychosomatic.

The symptoms progressed dramatically....the boy becoming semi-comatose and beginning to suffer from convulsions. The father called the paramedics and they rushed the lad to the hospital (along with the snake...still in its jar). The staff physicians couldn't understand why the boy was evidencing symptoms of neurotoxic envenomation from such an innocuous-looking reptile which didn't match the description of any known venomous snake in the area. It wasn't until an expert from a local zoo saw the reptile that the mystery was solved. It was a melanistic coral snake...totally bereft of any of the typical rings that characterize the species. With that identification...the specified course of treatment was begun and the boy recovered without any long-lasting effects.

If you're going to keep anything venomous....KNOW your animal and know your own limitations!! One of these days you WILL make a mistake...even the tiniest one....and you might have to pay a serious price unless you're very lucky.


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

thats the nicest snake ive seen someone own in a long while


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

I am glad to see someone out there who had an active interest in venom enzymes....a largely untapped area of potential medical miracles. Many venom components are being used in several countries experimentally in the war against cancer...with amazing results so far...maybe this type of press will eventually help venomous snakes get the protection from the lay-person they are not yet afforded.

Interesting note on the melanistic TX Coral Snake (_Micrurus _ _fulvius _ _tenere_)...There have been several found to date, Victoria TX, Lackland Airforce Base in San Antonio, Houston....one bite resulted in a Zoo curator misidentifying the snake via phone.....always remember, color is not an identifying factor in species identification...you can always have abnormal specimens show up in any given population, amelanistic, melanistic, hypomelanistic, xanthic, axanthic, etc... I once found a Sonoran Coral Snake (_Micruroides _ _euryxanthus_) that was normally marked ventrally, but the dorsal pattern was sans the red bands..making it look earily similiar to a neonate desert phase California Kingsnake.....

A link some may find of interest..
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...54ce18fb01402eb


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

in florida we had snakes called black racers (black corn snake or rat snake i think) but anyways these things were super mean mofos that were really fast. i caught about 6 in the whole neighbor where i lived to study you know and then release them into the wild about after a week. i think the most dangerouse snake i saw was near my lake and it was a huge cotton mouth snake that i really didnt want to catch. some asshole thouhgt that i was stupid enopugh to jump into the water to get him and i just pushed him in the water. i had said it is venomouse and no way in hell would i catch it and he kept insisting that he was a small snake that couldnt harm a 10 year old boy like me. i just called the local fish and wilkd life and they came out an identified it as dangerouse and took him to a secluded part of the lake where it was off limits to people.

but there was awesome gators and snakes in my lake


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## ANDY375HH (Jul 22, 2003)

very sweet pics One day I would like to have a gaboon viper they are truly beautiful snakes. But that is only when I know I can safely handle (when needed) and house one.


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## TIGER9 (Feb 4, 2003)

heres my question, how exactly do u walk. because with balls that big, they must drag the ground. do u just bounce around on ur sac like a huge hippty-hop. seriously tho i have no problem admitting that venomous snakes scare the crap out of me. i wouldnt scream like a woman if i saw one, but definitely somethin i would give a wide berth. ya dig. beautiful pics, gorgeous animals u got there.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> venomouse










venomous, lu.... but that's a great story of contacting the wildlife agencies and being aware of what is and isn't dangerous. That's astonishingly rare these days (we have unique members, naturally).

Melanistic coral snake, wild story, I was waiting to hear that a mamba had gotten out of a zoo! Personally I leave these guys alone. I've heard the stories and have had acquaintances and friends who never thought they'd make a mistake make a mistake. I'm just not that careful ....

*remembering how many times gallons of tank water ended up on floor...*











> heres my question, how exactly do u walk. because with balls that big, they must drag the ground. do u just bounce around on ur sac like a huge hippty-hop.


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## Fruitbat (Jan 2, 2004)

CrocKeeper...

Just out of curiosity...by any chance did you get a chance to participate in any of the 'major gatherings' out in the Trans-Pecos during the early to mid-70s?? (Or were you just a babe then??) This was back when people from all over the US and a number of other countries used to meet informally in the area around Langtry, TX or near Study Butte just outside of Big Bend National Park in quest of _Lampropeltis mexicana_, _Elaphe subocularis_, and other West Texas specialties??


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

TIGER9 said:


> heres my question, how exactly do u walk. because with balls that big, they must drag the ground. do u just bounce around on ur sac like a huge hippty-hop.


 thanks for the complent
















also thanks for the complement acestro, yes the lu man does have something smart.







i used to love to catch snakes and play with them even though i shouldnt have. i only messed with the non-vemouse snakes cause i knew pretty well my surrounding and which is which you know. but man i dont go messin with those venomuose snakes cause those will bite off your big balls real fast :laugh:

i to thought that some how a mamba was the snake and it was lkike a private collectors lost snake

in florida though we had just plain coral snakes, and loose milk snakes to that i would catch and people would be in awe then i saw it is a harmless snake that has the tendecney to poop on you (the milk snake that is)


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

> CrocKeeper...
> 
> Just out of curiosity...by any chance did you get a chance to participate in any of the 'major gatherings' out in the Trans-Pecos during the early to mid-70s?? (Or were you just a babe then??) This was back when people from all over the US and a number of other countries used to meet informally in the area around Langtry, TX or near Study Butte just outside of Big Bend National Park in quest of Lampropeltis mexicana, Elaphe subocularis, and other West Texas specialties??


Early eighties, I caught on to the tail end of the major gatherings chasing mostly hots with freinds who were religious alterna men....worked out good for mr, I gave em any and all altena we came across, and I kept all hots...








Obviously fruitbat, the numbers worked to my advantage there...

West Tx is still one of my favorite places to get lost at night with my headlamp and walk cuts.....


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## Fruitbat (Jan 2, 2004)

Plenty of 'hots' out in that area. When we were collecting during late May we would consider it a bad night if we didn't see at least 25 rattlesnakes, mostly Western Diamondbacks and Mojaves. Everything kinda fizzled out in the Trans-Pecos area after the State of Texas protected _L. mexicana_ and _E. subocularis_ which were the snakes that most people were after anyway.

I did manage to catch one _Trimorphodon biscutatus vilkinsonii_ on the 'Big Hill' of the River Road in 1973. I published my first paper on the first successful hatching of _Coleonyx reticulatus_ eggs during those years. And yes....the Big Bend area is still MY favorite place to take a stroll...especially at night. It is always fun to find a nice, fat _Diplocentrus bigbendensis_ scorpion duking it out with an equally large Vinegaroon (_Mastigoproctus_).

Anyway...I just found myself wondering if you and I might have crossed paths out in that area in the past.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

I would not doubt that our headlights passed at speeds considerably slower than normal traffic...








Possibly we have even exchanged polite inquiries as to what each other was after...alas so many of those conversations take place every year...


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

thats a damned beutifull cobra man


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

great snakes 
and thread


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