# People in religion



## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

hell isnt necesarrily fire and brim stone it is just void of Gods Love. and he is full of infinite forgiveness you just need to want to be forgiven and ask for his forgiveness and he will give it to you


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

because whoever wrote the bible was confused and enjoyed contradicting themselves


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

Puff said:


> because whoever wrote the bible was confused and enjoyed contradicting themselves


he will even forgive puff for saying God was confused when he wrote the bible .. if puff wants to be forgiven


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> hell isnt necesarrily fire and brim stone it is just void of Gods Love. and he is full of infinite forgiveness you just need to want to be forgiven and ask for his forgiveness and he will give it to you


I don't agree, I see what you are trying to say but when you deal with eternity and then put it into comparison with a human life span it doesn't workout. If he is full of infinite love then he would want to do whats best for us anyways much like parents do for children.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> because whoever wrote the bible was confused and enjoyed contradicting themselves


he will even forgive puff for saying God was confused when he wrote the bible .. if puff wants to be forgiven
[/quote]

well he didnt write the bible...some dude wrote it FOR god...lol

maybe the dude was drunk on Jesus Juice







and misinterpretted something that god told him over a beer they had...lol


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

yes but he gave us free will and since he did that he cannot just forgive us if we dont want it.



Puff said:


> because whoever wrote the bible was confused and enjoyed contradicting themselves


he will even forgive puff for saying God was confused when he wrote the bible .. if puff wants to be forgiven
[/quote]

well he didnt write the bible...some dude wrote it FOR god...lol

maybe the dude was drunk on Jesus Juice







and misinterpretted something that god told him over a beer they had...lol
[/quote]

God Dictated it to the apostles who wrote it so yes technically God didnt physically write it but he spoke the words that were written


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> yes but he gave us free will and since he did that he cannot just forgive us if we dont want it.


I will use your logic so you can see it clearly. By your logic about freewill and I will use the time span of a human in comparison to infinite. Our lifespan to god is less than a blink of an eye, and in that time we have to figure out if we want forgiveness or not? That is the same thing as me warning my 4 year old son of playing with the light sockets, as we all know they are going to play with them anyways. So when my son plays with the lightsockets or anything that I told him not I will immediatley banish him from the house cause he went against my word. That is not at all fair but if you compare the rational it is the same.

Further more, god did not give you freewill, he gave you the illusion of freewill. Freewill can only work if you do not believe in a GOD figure as being above everyone else.

I don't want to edit but I mispoke, I did not mean to say a god above everyone else. What I meant to say is you cannot believe in a god that is all knowing and have freewill.


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

i opened the bible once, 
it said " he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going"


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

i dont think God is imediatley sending you to hell if you commit one sin.. its more like your son comes home coked out of his mind once you tell him not to he comes home twice you tell him not to he starts bringing his coke home you tell him not to he is high all the time and he contnuely disobeys you and shows no repentence so you kick him out..

and as to your freewill its not an illusion of free will .. i choose to believe there is a God and i choose to follow the guidelines he set out i dont see how that is an illusion of free will.. i can believe what i want and do what i want but i choose not to .


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

joey said:


> i opened the bible once,
> it said " he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going"


In the begining God said, "let there be light" And there was light, there wasn't anything else but you could see alot better.


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> i opened the bible once,
> it said " he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going"


In the begining God said, "let there be light" And there was light, there wasn't anything else but you could see alot better.
[/quote]


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> i dont think God is imediatley sending you to hell if you commit one sin.. its more like your son comes home coked out of his mind once you tell him not to he comes home twice you tell him not to he starts bringing his coke home you tell him not to he is high all the time and he contnuely disobeys you and shows no repentence so you kick him out..
> 
> and as to your freewill its not an illusion of free will .. i choose to believe there is a God and i choose to follow the guidelines he set out i dont see how that is an illusion of free will.. i can believe what i want and do what i want but i choose not to .


Just answer me this so I know how to answer. Do you believe god is all knowing?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


Spiritual things can not be revealed to the flesh. You must seek God to understand these things for yourself. No human can reveal these things to you, only God Himself.
He will reveal the things of the spirit to those who are willing to accept His spirit, in faith. But I will offer one thing that you may or may not get.
The Bible says that WE disobeyed God and that WE turned our backs on Him. How is it God's fault if WE will not accept His offer to live life in a loving relationship with Him, the giver and author of all life?


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> i dont think God is imediatley sending you to hell if you commit one sin.. its more like your son comes home coked out of his mind once you tell him not to he comes home twice you tell him not to he starts bringing his coke home you tell him not to he is high all the time and he contnuely disobeys you and shows no repentence so you kick him out..
> 
> and as to your freewill its not an illusion of free will .. i choose to believe there is a God and i choose to follow the guidelines he set out i dont see how that is an illusion of free will.. i can believe what i want and do what i want but i choose not to .


Just answer me this so I know how to answer. Do you believe god is all knowing?
[/quote]
i think if there is a god, its a monkey and he likes to poop on bad people and swing in the heavenly trees


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> i dont think God is imediatley sending you to hell if you commit one sin.. its more like your son comes home coked out of his mind once you tell him not to he comes home twice you tell him not to he starts bringing his coke home you tell him not to he is high all the time and he contnuely disobeys you and shows no repentence so you kick him out..
> 
> and as to your freewill its not an illusion of free will .. i choose to believe there is a God and i choose to follow the guidelines he set out i dont see how that is an illusion of free will.. i can believe what i want and do what i want but i choose not to .


Just answer me this so I know how to answer. Do you believe god is all knowing?
[/quote]

yes.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> i dont think God is imediatley sending you to hell if you commit one sin.. its more like your son comes home coked out of his mind once you tell him not to he comes home twice you tell him not to he starts bringing his coke home you tell him not to he is high all the time and he contnuely disobeys you and shows no repentence so you kick him out..
> 
> and as to your freewill its not an illusion of free will .. i choose to believe there is a God and i choose to follow the guidelines he set out i dont see how that is an illusion of free will.. i can believe what i want and do what i want but i choose not to .


Just answer me this so I know how to answer. Do you believe god is all knowing?
[/quote]

yes.
[/quote]

If god is all knowing then he must know every move or thought you can possible have. If he knows this then he already knows what you will do as time does not matter to that of a being who is all knowing and who is infinite. By that being said you do not have free will cause god already knows what decisions you will make. So back to my point, why is there a supposed hell?


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> i dont think God is imediatley sending you to hell if you commit one sin.. its more like your son comes home coked out of his mind once you tell him not to he comes home twice you tell him not to he starts bringing his coke home you tell him not to he is high all the time and he contnuely disobeys you and shows no repentence so you kick him out..
> 
> and as to your freewill its not an illusion of free will .. i choose to believe there is a God and i choose to follow the guidelines he set out i dont see how that is an illusion of free will.. i can believe what i want and do what i want but i choose not to .


Just answer me this so I know how to answer. Do you believe god is all knowing?
[/quote]

yes.
[/quote]

If god is all knowing then he must know every move or thought you can possible have. If he knows this then he already knows what you will do as time does not matter to that of a being who is all knowing and who is infinite. By that being said you do not have free will cause god already knows what decisions you will make. So back to my point, why is there a supposed hell?
[/quote]

um you still say the decisisions i will make so your saying im still making my own decisions even if he knows what im gonna pick i still make my own choice .. pls explain how this isnt free will..


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## thepinkpirate (Jul 20, 2006)

[/quote]

I will use your logic so you can see it clearly. By your logic about freewill and I will use the time span of a human in comparison to infinite. Our lifespan to god is less than a blink of an eye, and in that time we have to figure out if we want forgiveness or not? That is the same thing as me warning my 4 year old son of playing with the light sockets, as we all know they are going to play with them anyways. So when my son plays with the lightsockets or anything that I told him not I will immediatley banish him from the house cause he went against my word. That is not at all fair but if you compare the rational it is the same.

Further more, god did not give you freewill, he gave you the illusion of freewill. Freewill can only work if you do not believe in a GOD figure as being above everyone else.

I don't want to edit but I mispoke, I did not mean to say a god above everyone else. What I meant to say is you cannot believe in a god that is all knowing and have freewill.
[/quote]

Ok here's what I believe....

Yes, God does Love us unconditionally and forgives us for ALL our sins...but he cannot force us to believe in him..it has to be our choice..and he gives us all a chance..A chance to ask for his forgiveness and to accept him into our lives..and if we do and we continue to have a relationship with him then we will be saved...yet if we choose not to believe...and not to pursue a relationship with him then we will not spend all eternity in Heaven...

Here's a way to kind of understand it better...

It kind of reminds me of school..A teacher will tell the kids to behave..to listen. to do their homework, to be nice to the other kids or whatever...but they don't always listen right?...so the teacher rewards the students who DO listen to him/her...But...for the kids who DON'T listen..is it fair for the teacher to give them a reward...even though they behaved badly? You see the teacher may love all her students...but it would'nt be right if she just rewarded them all no matter what..do you kind of see what I'm saying?


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

ANOTHER GOD THREAD ON THE NET!! They always make me laugh.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

thepinkpirate said:


> ANOTHER GOD THREAD ON THE NET!! They always make me laugh.


I'm not looking to debate religion I simply want a logical answer as to why there is a supposed hell. I'm not trying to offend anyone or any religion. I'm simply curious


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> No offense sir but speak for yourself as to turning our backs on god. I never have. You cannot hold me responsible for actions taking by ancestors thousands of years ago. I was not present, and did not share their decisions either. Your telling me that god holds me responsible for something I have nothing to do with? I come into this world screwed? That is not a god of love. I have no reason to prove my inocence when I'm not guilty.


No offence to you, but if you want to, please PM me, and we will go through what God calls an obedient person. 
We are born sinners my friend, all of us. We are dead to God all the way around, and I can prove that to you in PM. I do not wish to share this with the general public, only those who God is working in their heart. 
You will only believe when the Lord convicts you. 
Sin is passed through blood, and our ancestors blood flows through our veins. I'm not trying to get you to believe what I say. What I say means nothing. You have to open your heart to God


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

pls dont take it as i was offended i wasnt at all you are entitled to your beliefs you made no derogatory comments or anything i thought we had a good discussion. just dont want you to think i was offended or anything


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> pls dont take it as i was offended i wasnt at all you are entitled to your beliefs you made no derogatory comments or anything i thought we had a good discussion. just dont want you to think i was offended or anything


No no not all sir! Please continue! I was simply pointing out freewill and having fun doing so! I love to digress about this but soo often people take offense or get mad. I'm glad you have not







I love hearing other viewpoints and ways to think.


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

i dont believe in god. i pretty much need to see things to believe them. i stood my lighter up. told god it was just me and him in that room. i told him to make my lighter tip over and if he did id believe in him. lighter stood in its place.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

If he did that, there would be no need for "faith", because there would be proof


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

We are born sinners, whether you like it or not. We must be baptized as soon as possible as a child.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

So a child is not considered "innocent"? I thought Jesus loves children because of their innocence.


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

I personally think religion is a outdated concept and is the major problem with society It tears people apart and for what? Your GOD is better than MINE? Just my personal opinion.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Louie D said:


> i dont believe in god. i pretty much need to see things to believe them. i stood my lighter up. told god it was just me and him in that room. i told him to make my lighter tip over and if he did id believe in him. lighter stood in its place.
























that's one way perhaps







but I doubt it will yield results quickly.

Think about god backwards for a sec. (Hypothetical) Let's say you are god, everything is still the same, but in your kitchen at home you see a cockroach, are you going to tell him about your day? could you even describe your day to him in a way he could understand? Could the cockroach tell you about his day??? If he asked a lighter to fall over lol would you hear it??? I'm not making fun of you I'm just trying to show you a difference most don't make between god and man. If god as we are digesting about exists then there is NO comparison of us to him (it). I can't create universes, manage gravity in multiple dimension, hear every living thing on the planet and no all, ALL AT ONCE, I couldn't do that and possibly not knock over a lighter could I? lol do you see what I mean? Why would it even be worth his (it) time???? Same as you to the cockroach in the kitchen, why is it even worth your time???


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## Silence (Sep 22, 2005)

*HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*

*AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*

*AND WE CALLED US CIVILIZED PEOPLE AS WE BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE HELL? LMAO*

*AND STOP JUDGING GOD BY WHAT OTHERS TELL YOU! THEY DO NOTHING BUT LIMIT GOD TO THEIR OWN PRESENT MENTAL CAPACITY!*


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Jesus christ crosshairs,this is the last I would have expected from you


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Silence said:


> *HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*
> 
> *AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*


And that is why people don't listen to you. If you are going to prove your point acting childish you will be taken childish. Not trying to rag on you or nothing but just being honest


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## Silence (Sep 22, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> *HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*
> 
> *AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*


And that is why people don't listen to you. If you are going to prove your point acting childish you will be taken childish. Not trying to rag on you or nothing but just being honest








[/quote]

How can people who say hell exist prove their believe to be true? What's the point this thread is made anyway, does that going to give you the answer?

Here's the answer...hell does not exist. But you won't listen..you'll continue asking, ah but you will find your answer again anyway....hell does not exist.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Silence said:


> *HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*
> 
> *AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*


And that is why people don't listen to you. If you are going to prove your point acting childish you will be taken childish. Not trying to rag on you or nothing but just being honest








[/quote]

How can people who say hell exist prove their believe to be true? What's the point this thread is made anyway, does that going to give you the answer?

Here's the answer...hell does not exist. But you won't listen..you'll continue asking, ah but you will find your answer again anyway....hell does not exist.
[/quote]

Okay, since your thinking isn't that complex on understanding thought and logic I'll explain what I mean. I know what I believe and I know what I asked is a soooo far paradox. I'm simply looking for the LOGICAL REASON of hell or no hell.


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> i dont believe in god. i pretty much need to see things to believe them. i stood my lighter up. told god it was just me and him in that room. i told him to make my lighter tip over and if he did id believe in him. lighter stood in its place.
























that's one way perhaps







but I doubt it will yield results quickly.

Think about god backwards for a sec. (Hypothetical) Let's say you are god, everything is still the same, but in your kitchen at home you see a cockroach, are you going to tell him about your day? could you even describe your day to him in a way he could understand? Could the cockroach tell you about his day??? If he asked a lighter to fall over lol would you hear it??? I'm not making fun of you I'm just trying to show you a difference most don't make between god and man. If god as we are digesting about exists then there is NO comparison of us to him (it). I can't create universes, manage gravity in multiple dimension, hear every living thing on the planet and no all, ALL AT ONCE, I couldn't do that and possibly not knock over a lighter could I? lol do you see what I mean? Why would it even be worth his (it) time???? Same as you to the cockroach in the kitchen, why is it even worth your time???
[/quote]

well i bash god and religion daily. so i figure hed wanna shut me up. i mean damn,id beleive in aliens before i believed in god. it just sounds so damn silly. like holy sh*t i laugh in peoples faces cause i cant help it. ive been wanting to write my own bible. i promise it will be more fun to follow then the old one some other dude wrote.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

captin howdey said:


> i dont believe in god. i pretty much need to see things to believe them. i stood my lighter up. told god it was just me and him in that room. i told him to make my lighter tip over and if he did id believe in him. lighter stood in its place.
























that's one way perhaps







but I doubt it will yield results quickly.

Think about god backwards for a sec. (Hypothetical) Let's say you are god, everything is still the same, but in your kitchen at home you see a cockroach, are you going to tell him about your day? could you even describe your day to him in a way he could understand? Could the cockroach tell you about his day??? If he asked a lighter to fall over lol would you hear it??? I'm not making fun of you I'm just trying to show you a difference most don't make between god and man. If god as we are digesting about exists then there is NO comparison of us to him (it). I can't create universes, manage gravity in multiple dimension, hear every living thing on the planet and no all, ALL AT ONCE, I couldn't do that and possibly not knock over a lighter could I? lol do you see what I mean? Why would it even be worth his (it) time???? Same as you to the cockroach in the kitchen, why is it even worth your time???
[/quote]

well i bash god and religion daily. so i figure hed wanna shut me up. i mean damn,id beleive in aliens before i believed in god. it just sounds so damn silly. like holy sh*t i laugh in peoples faces cause i cant help it. ive been wanting to write my own bible. i promise it will be more fun to follow then the old one some other dude wrote.
[/quote]

Cool, All I was looking for is your reason


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## Silence (Sep 22, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> *HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*
> 
> *AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*


And that is why people don't listen to you. If you are going to prove your point acting childish you will be taken childish. Not trying to rag on you or nothing but just being honest








[/quote]

How can people who say hell exist prove their believe to be true? What's the point this thread is made anyway, does that going to give you the answer?

Here's the answer...hell does not exist. But you won't listen..you'll continue asking, ah but you will find your answer again anyway....hell does not exist.
[/quote]

Okay, since your thinking isn't that complex on understanding thought and logic I'll explain what I mean. I know what I believe and I know what I asked is a soooo far paradox. I'm simply looking for the LOGICAL REASON of hell or no hell.
[/quote]

I didn't read any of anybody's post except a little of yours and one or two whom gave short answers or a line or two from long ones.:laugh:

But here's the logical reason, would you create hell for your child? Would you understand why and how he has made his so called mistakes. And if what right and wrong are unchangable, then why has what right and wrong changed throughout the history of mankind? How are they different in different places? How come some is accepted and some is not in different places? How one Church tells their people not to go to the other? How they say baby that dies does not go to hell but somewhere between heaven and hell, at least not hell which is good.

And why has your focus only been on Christianity if you are looking for the entire picture of truth? Because God is everything and is in everything. And this so called hell is only existing in book religions. You only speak of it because you were born as a christian, didn't you? Or your parents are one? What if they converted into another religion as you were still a child? And your right and wrong change too? People judge God, people condemn sex when it's created by God..it's simply how they grew up, how those thoughts and beliefs are planted in their minds and how it just continued from one generation to another...I am not a copy, and if people don't understand me, oh heaven I bet as hell God does.

God is the past, present and the future that you cannot predict, God is all that there was, is and will ever be, and people try so hard to judge, so hard to be given rules for them to follow, they seek to be sheeps when they don't know they are the way, that we are all children of God.

Here's the truth, all of us are going home.


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> i dont believe in god. i pretty much need to see things to believe them. i stood my lighter up. told god it was just me and him in that room. i told him to make my lighter tip over and if he did id believe in him. lighter stood in its place.
























that's one way perhaps







but I doubt it will yield results quickly.

Think about god backwards for a sec. (Hypothetical) Let's say you are god, everything is still the same, but in your kitchen at home you see a cockroach, are you going to tell him about your day? could you even describe your day to him in a way he could understand? Could the cockroach tell you about his day??? If he asked a lighter to fall over lol would you hear it??? I'm not making fun of you I'm just trying to show you a difference most don't make between god and man. If god as we are digesting about exists then there is NO comparison of us to him (it). I can't create universes, manage gravity in multiple dimension, hear every living thing on the planet and no all, ALL AT ONCE, I couldn't do that and possibly not knock over a lighter could I? lol do you see what I mean? Why would it even be worth his (it) time???? Same as you to the cockroach in the kitchen, why is it even worth your time???
[/quote]

well i bash god and religion daily. so i figure hed wanna shut me up. i mean damn,id beleive in aliens before i believed in god. it just sounds so damn silly. like holy sh*t i laugh in peoples faces cause i cant help it. ive been wanting to write my own bible. i promise it will be more fun to follow then the old one some other dude wrote.
[/quote]

Cool, All I was looking for is your reason








[/quote]

right on


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

You fucked up now crosshairs-Good thred though-Although I will choose to stay silent in this issue!!


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

The beauty about being a religious person is that they require absolutely no proof for the point they try to make its faith based and there is now way anyone can win arguments against them. I find most of the time they just start insulting me calling me a stupid bleep bleep bleep how can you not believe in god. I never even say I don't they just assume no one wants a different point of view.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Silence said:


> *HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*
> 
> *AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*


And that is why people don't listen to you. If you are going to prove your point acting childish you will be taken childish. Not trying to rag on you or nothing but just being honest








[/quote]

How can people who say hell exist prove their believe to be true? What's the point this thread is made anyway, does that going to give you the answer?

Here's the answer...hell does not exist. But you won't listen..you'll continue asking, ah but you will find your answer again anyway....hell does not exist.
[/quote]

Okay, since your thinking isn't that complex on understanding thought and logic I'll explain what I mean. I know what I believe and I know what I asked is a soooo far paradox. I'm simply looking for the LOGICAL REASON of hell or no hell.
[/quote]

God is the past, present and the future that you cannot predict, God is all that there was, is and will ever be, and people try so hard to judge, so hard to be given rules for them to follow, they seek to be sheeps when they don't know they are the way, that we are all children of God.

Here's the truth, all of us are going home.
[/quote]

I disagree with you as you disagree with me on your reasons, but this paragraph? I could not AGREE with you more


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

Crosshair; don't ask retorical idiotic questions while at the same time SPINNING what I said (which comes right from the Book...The Bible) What I said is what is true Crosshair. Please don't come at Christians with your questioning of a greater being. If you want to believe in Him, do so. I think we need not convince you that he exists. We are much past that in our place in time, as well as in this thread.

Check this Link out: It is is a great piece of information if you REALLY are questioning WHY we are born sinners, whether you would like to believe it or not. http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-are-we-born-sinners.htm

Colbert is the man.






Not saying your God doesn't exist, but my God can kick you god's ass. !!!


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## Silence (Sep 22, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> *HELL DOES NOT EXIST! IT'S ALL CREATED BY OLD CRAPPY PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS! NOW MOVE ON!*
> 
> *AND WE ARE NOT BORN SINNERS! FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS, LMAO @ YOU GROW UP KID!*


And that is why people don't listen to you. If you are going to prove your point acting childish you will be taken childish. Not trying to rag on you or nothing but just being honest








[/quote]

How can people who say hell exist prove their believe to be true? What's the point this thread is made anyway, does that going to give you the answer?

Here's the answer...hell does not exist. But you won't listen..you'll continue asking, ah but you will find your answer again anyway....hell does not exist.
[/quote]

Okay, since your thinking isn't that complex on understanding thought and logic I'll explain what I mean. I know what I believe and I know what I asked is a soooo far paradox. I'm simply looking for the LOGICAL REASON of hell or no hell.
[/quote]

God is the past, present and the future that you cannot predict, God is all that there was, is and will ever be, and people try so hard to judge, so hard to be given rules for them to follow, they seek to be sheeps when they don't know they are the way, that we are all children of God.

Here's the truth, all of us are going home.
[/quote]

I disagree with you as you disagree with me on your reasons, but this paragraph? I could not AGREE with you more








[/quote]

Lol cheers dude, no worries it doesn't matter.


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

See you cant win the insults will start flooding in and they will clinch there book they never read.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Louie D said:


> Crosshair; don't ask retorical idiotic questions while at the same time SPINNING what I said (which comes right from the Book...The Bible) What I said is what is true Crosshair. Please don't come at Christians with your questioning of a greater being. If you want to believe in Him, do so. I think we need not convince you that he exists. We are much past that in our place in time, as well as in this thread.
> 
> Check this Link out: It is is a great piece of information if you REALLY are questioning WHY we are born sinners, whether you would like to believe it or not. http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-are-we-born-sinners.htm
> 
> ...


I see I see, lol get mad and change the view to a video so you don't have to answer, you copied it from a book so tell me why it's so. Or do you just believe anything you read?


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## Silence (Sep 22, 2005)

I Believe and Love *JESUS CHRIST* but I may not believe some of the things written in Bible. I don't believe a God that curses, blames and punishes...a God that demands Love and worship.

God is Love.


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

smallmouth said:


> See you cant win the insults will start flooding in and they will clinch there book they never read.


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

I love that stuff BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH thats what it looks like in my eyes then they start crossing. Sounds like what saddom and hitler told there people. Man i shouldnt have said this.


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## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

My 2 Cents...

God created hell for those who decided not to accept his will for them. He give's you your whole life to decide to accept his gift of eternal life by turning your back on the world and following him and at the end of your life time, if you have not done so, then you have made the decision to turn your back on God and there must be punishment "Hell".

Every time you swear, or drink alcohol to intoxication, or dephile your body or lust after the flesh or envy or be jealous or greedy, you are in essence "turning your back on God" because that is not his will for you. But just because you have turned your back on him, doesn't mean he will turn his back on you. You simply keep your back turned until you die, and then off to hell with you, while all the while He was just waiting for you to turn around and ask forgiveness to save you from eternity in hell.


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

I have a ? why do people fear SATAN. He never does anything!! Whenever there a is disaster or someones kid gets murdererd it was gods will and he had a plan is SATAN really that helpless that god kills more than him?


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## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

God doesn't kill, he allows life to end. He does not intervein in day to day activities unless we ask him to. He's not a puppeteer controlling us, he doesn't step in to stop a murder or stop a plane from crashing into the side of a building, he simply allows it to stay out of the way. If he stopped everything from happeneing, everyone would believe in God because you would see his work ever day all the time and it would be come normal and boring. Satan isn't helpless by any means, God allows him to roam the earth seeking epople to destroy and with Violent or Pornographic Movies, Drugs, Alcohol, Etc... it has gotten to be so easy for him that he doesn't have to do much, all he has to do is get someone to offer a person crack cocain one time and then walk away, they are hooked forever, on to the next person and so on...


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

every sunday i go door to door real early in the morning and spread the word of satan.



Rodgers Aquatics said:


> God doesn't kill, he allows life to end. He does not intervein in day to day activities unless we ask him to. He's not a puppeteer controlling us, he doesn't step in to stop a murder or stop a plane from crashing into the side of a building, he simply allows it to stay out of the way. If he stopped everything from happeneing, everyone would believe in God because you would see his work ever day all the time and it would be come normal and boring. Satan isn't helpless by any means, God allows him to roam the earth seeking epople to destroy and with Violent or Pornographic Movies, Drugs, Alcohol, Etc... it has gotten to be so easy for him that he doesn't have to do much, all he has to do is get someone to offer a person crack cocain one time and then walk away, they are hooked forever, on to the next person and so on...
























no offense but you have the whole room laughing.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

*smacks Crosshair on the forehead*

"YOU ARE CUUURED!!!!"

i love watching that crap on tv and laughing my ass off at all the "believers" who pay money to get "healed" by some greaseball with a face full of plastic surgery...paid for by who?? the "believers"lol


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

I see porn kills people DAMN IM SCREWED!!!!!.

OH BOY IM drinking im dead?

Puff wtf thats real its on tv and hes holding the book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

I could give you all the answers. But would you really listen? Are you open minded to an explanation or are you simply looking to pick apart the word of the bible and point out percived contridictions that are more non understanding s of the word.

Hell. Is not a place of fire and brimstone. As hell is discribed in the bible it is the land that satan has rule over. that is the earth as it sits today We live in hell. 
"How do you figure?" you might ask. Well thats simple. A God that is full of endless love and forgiveness tho he might be has set down some strict rules. It is the choice you are given that lets YOU decide if you follow the path or not. 
Now this god full of love would not even for one who does not belive or who has turned his back on faith would not make them endure everlasting pain and suffering. That would not be the type of god that he is. 
So now that brings us back to hell on earth. 
the Devil/satan has rule over this land. This is explained in the bible in a dialouge between the devil himself and Jesus while on earth. 
Jesus knowing his fate and purpose. Was approached by the devil and offererd the oppertunity to turn his back to god and rule over the earth with satan. This was offered to jesus. Now Satan knowing who jesus is and jesus of course knowing who Satan is. They aren't going to bullshit each other by making empty offerings. As this would be quickly seen thru by the son of god. So Satans offering a place at his side to Jesus tells us that he is the ruler over this world. (this also explains why there is suffering and war and famon and plague and hatred and violance that run rampant over our lands.) And such an offer would have to be legimate for it to be tempting to the son of god. So it goes to reason that Satan is the ruler of this world. This is why in revelations the Angels of heaven must come to the earth and clense it. For it must be prepared for the paridise that is promised to gods children after armageddon. At that time Satan and those that chose to follow him will be cast out of the lords kingdon into HADES. This is different then hell. For hades is oblivion. It is non existance. This is not a place of suffering or pain or fire. This is simply being erased.

As to Cpt howdy. If you had an understanding of the bible you would know that god tells us not to test him for it is not our place and he does not need to prove himself to you. It is you that must prove yourself to him.

Seriously some of you need to actually READ the bible. And not just come up with opinions about stuff someone told you or what you seen on TV. If you haven't actually taken some time and tried to come to an understanding with an open mind Why even bother participating in such a topic. 
I've yet to meet one person that bashes the bible that even has a slight grasp of the concepts. Or even has TRIED to understand what it says. Because they are too ignorant to understand or interperet they rather just toss it aside and call it crap. The only argument they can come up with is ohh it was written by a man. Yeah it was written by MANY men over the span of MANY years. But these men were CHOSEN BY GOD. If you doubt the value of those mens writings then you are also doubting a decision made by god himself. And who are you to cast that doubt? You as a man are nothing. You are worthless. you are born with no spirtual value. This is just the way it is. You must actually make an effort to come to god. He is not going to come to you. You are a speck of sand. And altho he does hope that you will it is the CHOICE that he has given you. The only of his creatures he has created that have been given free will. And It is up to you to use that free will to come to him.

If you are literate enough and have read this fr then I thank you for your time. and I would also like to say that over the years of our existance man has twisted and manup[ilated the word of god to benifit his own desires. But this is acts of satan. What better way to sway people then to use the word of god and alienate people thru it by twisting the words and putting sinners at the forfront. This makes people like Puff and other's that are sitting here bashing it something negitive to relate to the word of god. But what you don't seem to understand that these men are not holy men. they are not ordained by the lord to spread the word. they are placed there by Satan to steer you away from faith. It up to You to seek knowlage of god. Not for someone else to teach it to you.


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

LOOK MAN TO PEOPLE WHO DONT BELIEVE IT LOOKS LIKE THIS. hbfcdkfdfsdbfsbfbsj efwqfqwfqwfwqfwfwfwfwefwfwqfwfwfwefewfwefwefERCBEGLQGCD:GQ:CDCIGWGWRQchwfgqgfqefbbecregvfergffbre; BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Why do you ask? because I don't have faith in someones opinion on what happened 2000 years ago. The fact is that the authors have the education of a 10 year old in today's standard. If your into aquariums your science knowledge is, well 2000 years more advanced than theres and last i heard religion and science don't mix.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

smallmouth said:


> LOOK MAN TO PEOPLE WHO DONT BELIEVE IT LOOKS LIKE THIS. hbfcdkfdfsdbfsbfbsj efwqfqwfqwfwqfwfwfwfwefwfwqfwfwfwefewfwefwefERCBEGLQGCD:GQ:CDCIGWGWRQchwfgqgfqefbbecregvfergffbre; BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
> Why do you ask? because I don't have faith in someones opinion on what happened 2000 years ago. The fact is that the authors have the education of a 10 year old in today's standard. If your into aquariums your science knowledge is, well 2000 years more advanced than theres and last i heard religion and science don't mix.


Yeah because thats an educated response. And I know exactly how it looks to someon that is to lazy to take a moment and consider the possiblty. because if you started to belive then it would mean you have to put forth some effort towards it. Simply put most people ae too damn self centered and lazy to give religion a chance. 
Easier to just say its all mumbo jumbo and dismiss it then to look at it with an open mind.

What fact? you haven't posted a fact in your statement. just an opinion formed in the last couple seconds of your posting to make your argument sound more solid then it really is. 
And what are you talking about if your in to aquariums your into sicence? Aquariums are a repensation of the beauty of nature.

Sorry man your argument just puked on itself. Also I don't have religious debates. I explane. 
And far be it from me to attempt to convert you. my only responsiblity as a christian is to present it to you. If you dont want it. Cool. Its less effort for me.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Damn Crosshair your first mistake was expecting people to apply logic to religion... it's never going to happen because the sh*t is all made up, contradictory, and defies logic. It's like trying to over analyze Donnie Darko. It's f*cking fiction, even the creaters didn't think THAT deep into it. The idea that an all powerful god sacrificed himself, TO himself, in order to prevent himself from sending everyone to hell because of the way that he MADE US is f*cking ludacris. You are going to get a million different interpretations from people which are all based on nothing but either the best selling work of fiction of all time or their own crazy thoughts. It has been the same way since the middle ages when people interpreted the sh*t in a completely different way, and if you believe that the interpretations won't completely change again in another 500 years then you are crazy too.

You will always be able to find loopholes and problems with the religious stories because they are not grounded in anything real. If you are really so concerned about this subject pick up a couple history books on religion, and you will be surprised at the parallels between bible stories and ancient myths (Particularly Egyptian and Babylonian). You will also be suprised at the changes made to the bible over time (despite those who claim it remains unchanged), and the skewed way some of the bible 'heros' are made to look good in spite of being complete con artists.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

smallmouth said:


> See you cant win the insults will start flooding in and they will clinch there book they never read.


I have to agree with you on the way that man addressed the author of that book. It seemed to me that he was using the reactions of his Christian audience in 'entertainment fashion' instead of cordially discussing the issue.
As a follower of Christ, I don't think that man was representing his Lord fully. No offence to anyone..
And yes, you have to study, read, and pray over the Bible instead of clinching it


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## thepinkpirate (Jul 20, 2006)

Rodgers Aquatics said:


> God doesn't kill, he allows life to end. He does not intervein in day to day activities unless we ask him to. He's not a puppeteer controlling us, he doesn't step in to stop a murder or stop a plane from crashing into the side of a building, he simply allows it to stay out of the way. If he stopped everything from happeneing, everyone would believe in God because you would see his work ever day all the time and it would be come normal and boring. Satan isn't helpless by any means, God allows him to roam the earth seeking epople to destroy and with Violent or Pornographic Movies, Drugs, Alcohol, Etc... it has gotten to be so easy for him that he doesn't have to do much, all he has to do is get someone to offer a person crack cocain one time and then walk away, they are hooked forever, on to the next person and so on...


I couldn't agree with you more...


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## piranha1991 (Sep 17, 2005)

i don't beleave in relegion but if what i'm thinking is right then god is full of endless love and endless forgiveness then he will forgive and ebrace ppl like Hitler who killed millions of people i could go on and on about the faults and voids in the bible but i'm not going to


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## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

If Hitler would have taken the time to repent and ask God for forgiveness (BEFORE HE DIED) then God would have forgiven him and yes, even Hitler would be in Heaven right now. Some people may not like that, but I believe that If God is willing to accept Hitler into heaven, wouldn't you all say that that is proof of endless love?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Rodgers Aquatics said:


> If Hitler would have taken the time to repent and ask God for forgiveness (BEFORE HE DIED) then God would have forgiven him and yes, even Hitler would be in Heaven right now. Some people may not like that, but I believe that If God is willing to accept Hitler into heaven, wouldn't you all say that that is proof of endless love?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Amen, brother!

I've always thought that one of the coolest things would be to find out that Hitler, Pol Pot, Judas and some of the other villains of history made it to Heaven--not because I approve of what they did on Earth (I don't come close to condoning most of their actions!) but because it would be a very tangible sign of God's love for mankind...


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

ChilDawg said:


> Amen, brother!
> 
> I've always thought that one of the coolest things would be to find out that Hitler, Pol Pot, Judas and some of the other villains of history made it to Heaven


It'd be even cooler if people like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell didn't


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## luciferzone (Feb 14, 2006)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


because even god gets pissed off,and needs somewhere to keep those people he's pissed at


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

Anyone here familiar with Dante's Inferno?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I am...why do you ask?


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

ChilDawg said:


> I am...why do you ask?


I was just curious as it seems the main topic of this thread is hell and how it could exist and be in the bible. I'm not too familiar with Dante's Inferno, but the main idea behind it is that Dante was placed in jail through a course of several events and thanks to a few people, and while he was in it he wrote something about a hell with different levels for everyone who placed him in jail, and it was eventually adapted into the bible.

Anyways, I was wondering if there is more to the story as I'd like to learn about it.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

That is a large part of who among his contemporaries he relegated to where, but it seems that there's so much more to it than that...and since it was a religious conflict that landed him in exile, I'd bet that he wanted to give it a religious framework from the beginning...but I don't know for sure. It's a short enough work that you could easily take down a translation in a short period of time--I think you'd find it interesting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy has some information on the work if you want to check that out...and I'm sure there's a Spark Notes or some similar free guide to The Divine Comedy somewhere online if you don't want to spend as much time reading it...


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow...my head hurts just reading all this. Interesting reading! I look forward to seeing how this one ends up!

Good answers given...and some...um...not so good answers given. Either way, it is interesting reading!


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

PastorJeff said:


> Wow...my head hurts just reading all this. Interesting reading! I look forward to seeing how this one ends up!
> 
> Good answers given...and some...um...not so good answers given. Either way, it is interesting reading!


Lets hear your take on the subject.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

huntx7 said:


> Anyone here familiar with Dante's Inferno?


If you want to just read Inferno and not the rest of the divine comedy you can read it online. There are lots of sites that go through each canto explaining and analyzing. Just search google.

http://home.earthlink.net/~zimls/summaries.html#top

http://pd.sparknotes.com/poetry/inferno/

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/8800


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> ...and it was eventually adapted into the bible.


I am a huge fan of Dante' but nothing of the inferno was ever adapted into the bible. He was speaking of the state of man...not the true realization of what hell was.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Um, religion is the opium of the people...


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Or "the opiate of the masses"...


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

If youre not open-minded to the answers of your questions, why ask to begin with? I refuse to discuss religion or my own religious preference because it is such a dynamic (ever-changing) and controversial (very little agreeance) topic. You are asking questions to which there is no answer. That is why it is called "faith". You only need to believe. YOU WILL LIVE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND NOT KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT GOD EXISTS. You cannot phrase ANY question in such a way that somebody will magically give away the right answer. Nobody has it for sure. They only have what they have come to believe as Truth. To sit here and ask questions as if you dont know the answer...only to refute any answer you dont like...it sounds like youre trying to talk people out of believing what they actually believe. And that, in my opinion, is wrong.

Tom


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> ...and it was eventually adapted into the bible.


I am a huge fan of Dante' but nothing of the inferno was ever adapted into the bible. He was speaking of the state of man...not the true realization of what hell was.
[/quote]

The question? Ahh I've been having that one for years and thought I would ask it here is all







I'm reading as I work and plan on replying to others comments so give me time lol. As to an answer from you though Jeff? Hmmm I just want you good old gut feeling answer. See I don't question that there is a god lol I just don't believe in a universal HIM, or the FATHER as most do but that of a unviersal god. Lol I can go on and on but I won't bore people unless I'm asked how I perceive GOD. If anyone cares to too, I would like to debunk the typical thinking of hell cause by logic alone hell is very very flawed.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Rodgers Aquatics said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


because even god gets pissed off,and needs somewhere to keep those people he's pissed at








[/quote]

Lol I don't want to go on forever but I could not possible or ever believe in a god that get's angry lol You don't realize how far that rabbit hole goes if god gets mad but long story short, you're telling me you believe in a Vengeful god? That contradicts your own writings of god being endless love.


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## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

Well, there are definately instances in the Bible where God was very angry. He destroyed Soddom and Gahmorah? (Not Sure On Spelling) Those cities were soo wicked that God had enough and just wiped them out. So yes, God does get angry and he will do something about it. I try not to test him though.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

these threads make me think of Al Pacino in Devils Advocate.



> Guilt is like a bag of f*cking bricks. All you gotta is set it down... Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway? God? Is that it? God? Well I tell you. Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow. And while you're jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick f*cking ass off. He's a tightass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee-landlord! Worship that? Never!


Dont quite support it.. in such words anyway. but that has to be the best f*cking movie dialogue EVER!

religion is just a form of control and solace.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Rodgers Aquatics said:


> Well, there are definately instances in the Bible where God was very angry. He destroyed Soddom and Gahmorah? (Not Sure On Spelling) Those cities were soo wicked that God had enough and just wiped them out. So yes, God does get angry and he will do something about it. I try not to test him though.


Not trying to offend in anyway shape or form but how can you say got gets angry on one hand and on the other say he's full of endless love? That is in contradiction of itself. Angry though??? that's a human emotion. I'm trying to talk down in anyway, but stop and think in a god's shoes. You have been here throughout time, you are time, you are the begining and the end, you KNOW ALL and are not capable of fouling, What possible reason out there would make you mad? Further more, if you know everything and every outcome it makes literally no sense what so ever to be angry or mad. You would have endless understanding as well which would not allow for this.


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

ChilDawg said:


> Amen, brother!
> 
> I've always thought that one of the coolest things would be to find out that Hitler, Pol Pot, Judas and some of the other villains of history made it to Heaven--not because I approve of what they did on Earth (I don't come close to condoning most of their actions!) but because it would be a very tangible sign of God's love for mankind...


yeah but i wouldnt be suprised to see judas there.. he wasnt that bad of a person as in he was an apostle and everything he is the traitor of jesus and he will always be remembered for that but he was as evil as it makes him seem and i really wouldnt be suprised to see him in heaven.. although he commited suicide which is murder which he wouldnt be able to repent soooo.... that opens a whole new can of worms..


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## hays98 (Mar 8, 2003)

I like the verse that says “as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I fear no evil for I’m the badest mother*ucker thought the land.” I saw it in my tattoo shop and thought it was funny.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Heaven would not constitute an "ACTION" none the less you are comparing something with physics to something astral lol no way no how do they corrilate.


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## lakerbrain (Oct 14, 2004)

Hell was created for the devil and his angels, it was not created for man. However, with the evil of men, God had to enlarge hell to make room for man. Isaiah 5:14


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

lakerbrain said:


> Hell was created for the devil and his angels, it was not created for man. However, with the evil of men, God had to enlarge hell to make room for man. Isaiah 5:14


:nod:

And to where were satan and his fallen angels cast?


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## smallmouth (Jun 22, 2003)

Rodgers Aquatics said:


> If Hitler would have taken the time to repent and ask God for forgiveness (BEFORE HE DIED) then God would have forgiven him and yes, even Hitler would be in Heaven right now. Some people may not like that, but I believe that If God is willing to accept Hitler into heaven, wouldn't you all say that that is proof of endless love?


Hitler should burn!!! GOD is weak if he forgives him Hitler was a abomination. I would renounce my faith if I had any and new he was forgiven.


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## lakerbrain (Oct 14, 2004)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Hell was created for the devil and his angels, it was not created for man. However, with the evil of men, God had to enlarge hell to make room for man. Isaiah 5:14


:nod:

And to where were satan and his fallen angels cast?
[/quote]
hell under the earth buddy It's very hot in the earths core


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

lakerbrain said:


> Hell was created for the devil and his angels, it was not created for man. However, with the evil of men, God had to enlarge hell to make room for man. Isaiah 5:14


:nod:

And to where were satan and his fallen angels cast?
[/quote]
hell under the earth buddy It's very hot in the earths core
[/quote]

lol are you serious dude


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## lakerbrain (Oct 14, 2004)

captin howdey said:


> Hell was created for the devil and his angels, it was not created for man. However, with the evil of men, God had to enlarge hell to make room for man. Isaiah 5:14


:nod:

And to where were satan and his fallen angels cast?
[/quote]
hell under the earth buddy It's very hot in the earths core
[/quote]

lol are you serious dude
[/quote]

very serious, Yahweh enlarged hell, when he did that there was a great earth quake which split the earth (meaning dry land) into the seven land masses, before the earth was one piece of land. Under the earth you have heat, lots of it. and its dark under there too because of the land, but there is more to it, the demons have rankings, with satan being like the head, although the majority of satan's angels are bound, satan is not. And Satan has stolen man's dominion, although with the right knowledge and dunamis power we are able to take back dominion, If any man asks my religion i say religion can be explained, and therefore can be controlled, however God cannot be explained, if you can explain something, you can control it. God never explained how he came into existance, it say's in Gen1:1 " in the beginning God" with no intention to explain anything. so here's the revelation, religion is man-made, a way for man to abuse what is holy in order to control the people, the relationship with the creator is more important than the statutes of man.


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## captin howdey (Oct 10, 2003)

lol coo coo, coo coo


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

lakerbrain said:


> hell under the earth buddy It's very hot in the earths core


Again...there is no scripture to back this up what so ever. It is not in the earth's core...sorry.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

lakerbrain said:


> Hell was created for the devil and his angels, it was not created for man. However, with the evil of men, God had to enlarge hell to make room for man. Isaiah 5:14


:nod:

And to where were satan and his fallen angels cast?
[/quote]
hell under the earth buddy It's very hot in the earths core
[/quote]










nevermind.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

the bible has been used for centuries to control people by instilling the fear of god into them. making them go to church, etc. rome manipulated information like crazy, in order to make people do what they want. back then, the pope had more power than kings. and in the middle ages, the church would kill and torture people who were blasphemous.

people have to read all the removed gospels to get a bigger picture of things. the bible nowadays says that u must go to church, but in the gospel of barnabus he explains how u dont have to go to church. the bible has been written and rewritten time and time again over the years. shakespeare even rewrote the bible.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2006)

The problem with religions, is that they are personal beliefs. What is faith to me, is herecy to you. What is the word of God to you, is fiction to me. I see my life as something Ive done, my spirit, something I create through my thought and actions, others see it as something God helped me do and thathe forgives me for my ignorance and arrogance.

See, whatever you believe, is what hell and heaven is to you. For me, hell would be dying without feeling free, without having a happy spirit. For others, its a place where you live in perfect harmony with Jesus. Both are equally true and equally valid, as faith is what creates one's vision and reality when it comes to these types of spiritual questions.

The problem comes when people instinctively feel the need to join sides, be a part of a group, or a set of traditions. Fo example:

DannyBoy: I am a Jays fan.
r1dermon: Jays suck, I am a Red Sox fan.
DannyBoy: Jays have better piching, Burnett and Halladay are better then Becks and Schilling.
r1dermon: No way, I believe Schilling is better then Halladay.
DannyBoy: But Halladay was a Cy Young a few years ago.
r1dermon: But wins in intrleague play shows that Schilling *could* be better in important games.
DannyBoy: Thats just a theory, Im giving you fact.
r1dermon: No, you are giving me someones interpretation of events that happened in the past, how does that reflect whats goin to happen in the future?

Thats what I think atleast.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

i beleive there is a higher being. but do not believe in a religion or way to follow him. religious text to me is just that. text. i have read the bible, and quran just to read them, like a story.


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Heaven would not constitute an "ACTION" none the less you are comparing something with physics to something astral lol no way no how do they corrilate.
[/quote]

How do you know they dont correlate? Are YOU God? And even if there were no correlation, he is using an example that your simple mind can understand as opposed to you repeating the same questions over and over...

Tom


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

PygoFanatic said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Heaven would not constitute an "ACTION" none the less you are comparing something with physics to something astral lol no way no how do they corrilate.
[/quote]

How do you know they dont correlate? Are YOU God? And even if there were no correlation, he is using an example that your simple mind can understand as opposed to you repeating the same questions over and over...

Tom
[/quote]

I know they don't correlate because one is talking about physics and the other is the astral, unknown realms of heaven and hell. Do you even know what physics is??? I'm not insulting, I'm truly sincere in this, maybe you don't understand what physics is and so you made a post such as this. And the reason I have repeated the question over and over and rephrased it is because I have not recieved an answer, but rather different viewpoints and different questions in return. Instead of attacking me maybe you should try and solve my question or keep reading on the sidelines.







Before you say you weren't attacking me I'll just say that refering to me with a "SIMPLE MIND" implies that I'm rudimentary and dumb. I know text lacks emotion so if I'm mis-understanding please inform me


----------



## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Heaven would not constitute an "ACTION" none the less you are comparing something with physics to something astral lol no way no how do they corrilate.
[/quote]

How do you know they dont correlate? Are YOU God? And even if there were no correlation, he is using an example that your simple mind can understand as opposed to you repeating the same questions over and over...

Tom
[/quote]

I know they don't correlate because one is talking about physics and the other is the astral, unknown realms of heaven and hell. Do you even know what physics is??? I'm not insulting, I'm truly sincere in this, maybe you don't understand what physics is and so you made a post such as this. And the reason I have repeated the question over and over and rephrased it is because I have not recieved an answer, but rather different viewpoints and different questions in return. Instead of attacking me maybe you should try and solve my question or keep reading on the sidelines.







Before you say you weren't attacking me I'll just say that refering to me with a "SIMPLE MIND" implies that I'm rudimentary and dumb. I know text lacks emotion so if I'm mis-understanding please inform me








[/quote]

First off...I wasnt necessarily trying to insult you by calling you simple-minded. I think that is a fair statement in light of the topic. In relation to understanding religion, I would venture to say that we are all simple-minded. As a human race, we are fairly incapable of understanding what is waiting for us after our earthly lives are done.

In reference to sitting on the sidelines...Ive BEEN involved in this thread. I already made a post about you asking questions and getting answers that you will never be satisfied with. And yes, you are getting answers, you just dont like the ones youre getting, so youre tossing them aside and saying "Next".

In reference to physics...I dont have an extensive background in it, but please inform me...what is physical about this conversation? I am familiar with Newtons Law, and that it is a property of physics. However, what we are talking about...all these posts...its all theory, its all otherworldly. YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE. So when whatshisface compared the equal and opposite reaction thing, it was a good ANALOGY. I dont see a problem with using analogies to try to convey what they believe is true. Just because it doesnt LITERALLY translate doesnt mean that he cant say that to help you understand where he is coming from. When you simply cast his thoughts aside, youre being disrespectful towards him and his beliefs.

If I were you, whenever I got a response I didnt agree with, I would most likely say "Interesting that you believe that" and move on. But you are in search of the perfect answer to one of the most asked and most unanswerable questions ever asked. This thread could go on forever, it could stay on the front page and get 23094798 responses, but no answer anybody gives you will ever satisfy you. You have to figure out what YOU believe on your own, and leave it at that.

Also I will refrain from trying to research an answer for you because, like I said, Im pretty sure what youre response will be if and when I were to come up with something concrete (never). Why waste my time reading through books and articles to come up with something when you will just come back with a two second reply doubting and refuting everything I were to say. Ive seen that enough in this thread.

Tom


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## piranha1991 (Sep 17, 2005)

i have no intrest in the bible telling me how i should live my life and that if i killed a million people and repent i will go to heaven. although i do beleave in a higher being and science but i don't think any one want's to get into the scientific perspective


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

Jesus still loves you... Unless your jewish and dont believe in him .


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## piranha1991 (Sep 17, 2005)

i don't believe in him and if i did i would not see him as an avatar of god but rather as a holy man of great belief


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## lakerbrain (Oct 14, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> hell under the earth buddy It's very hot in the earths core


Again...there is no scripture to back this up what so ever. It is not in the earth's core...sorry.
[/quote]

there are many views of christianity with no scripture backup like no where in the bible are the words holy trinity, but i bet you believe in that, and scholars saying the dinosaurs died in the flood, there isn't any bible backup for that.... no where in the bible is the prayers to mary through a rosary, no where in the bible does it state the type of fruit eaten in the garden by eve and adam, however scholars use knowledge to give us ideas of what it could have been, etc.


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## Adam12 (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm lost after learning that this world started with Adam and Eve. So their children had to bang each other to populate the world? Ya right.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


hell is just a name giving to a state of mind and consiousness when god has finally had enough and turns his back on you, your then taking out of his embrace and put into chaos left to fend for your self amongst beasts and the corrupt alike in both life and death..in my opinion it goes hand in hand with karma, ying and yang, and no, i have no idea why god still loves me :laugh: hes probably a Steeler fan..


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

PygoFanatic said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Heaven would not constitute an "ACTION" none the less you are comparing something with physics to something astral lol no way no how do they corrilate.
[/quote]

How do you know they dont correlate? Are YOU God? And even if there were no correlation, he is using an example that your simple mind can understand as opposed to you repeating the same questions over and over...

Tom
[/quote]

I know they don't correlate because one is talking about physics and the other is the astral, unknown realms of heaven and hell. Do you even know what physics is??? I'm not insulting, I'm truly sincere in this, maybe you don't understand what physics is and so you made a post such as this. And the reason I have repeated the question over and over and rephrased it is because I have not recieved an answer, but rather different viewpoints and different questions in return. Instead of attacking me maybe you should try and solve my question or keep reading on the sidelines.







Before you say you weren't attacking me I'll just say that refering to me with a "SIMPLE MIND" implies that I'm rudimentary and dumb. I know text lacks emotion so if I'm mis-understanding please inform me








[/quote]

First off...I wasnt necessarily trying to insult you by calling you simple-minded. I think that is a fair statement in light of the topic. In relation to understanding religion, I would venture to say that we are all simple-minded. As a human race, we are fairly incapable of understanding what is waiting for us after our earthly lives are done.

In reference to sitting on the sidelines...Ive BEEN involved in this thread. I already made a post about you asking questions and getting answers that you will never be satisfied with. And yes, you are getting answers, you just dont like the ones youre getting, so youre tossing them aside and saying "Next".

In reference to physics...I dont have an extensive background in it, but please inform me...what is physical about this conversation? I am familiar with Newtons Law, and that it is a property of physics. However, what we are talking about...all these posts...its all theory, its all otherworldly. YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE. So when whatshisface compared the equal and opposite reaction thing, it was a good ANALOGY. I dont see a problem with using analogies to try to convey what they believe is true. Just because it doesnt LITERALLY translate doesnt mean that he cant say that to help you understand where he is coming from. When you simply cast his thoughts aside, youre being disrespectful towards him and his beliefs.

If I were you, whenever I got a response I didnt agree with, I would most likely say "Interesting that you believe that" and move on. But you are in search of the perfect answer to one of the most asked and most unanswerable questions ever asked. This thread could go on forever, it could stay on the front page and get 23094798 responses, but no answer anybody gives you will ever satisfy you. You have to figure out what YOU believe on your own, and leave it at that.

Also I will refrain from trying to research an answer for you because, like I said, Im pretty sure what youre response will be if and when I were to come up with something concrete (never). Why waste my time reading through books and articles to come up with something when you will just come back with a two second reply doubting and refuting everything I were to say. Ive seen that enough in this thread.

Tom
[/quote]

Whoa Tom! allow me to answer with your quote "Interesting you believe that" and that can apply to how you assume how I answered in 2 seconds, assuming I'm looking for the perfect answer, assuming I don't care, assuming analogies, assuming you know how I feel, think, and answer.


----------



## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


newton said it best when he said... for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Heaven would not constitute an "ACTION" none the less you are comparing something with physics to something astral lol no way no how do they corrilate.
[/quote]

How do you know they dont correlate? Are YOU God? And even if there were no correlation, he is using an example that your simple mind can understand as opposed to you repeating the same questions over and over...

Tom
[/quote]

I know they don't correlate because one is talking about physics and the other is the astral, unknown realms of heaven and hell. Do you even know what physics is??? I'm not insulting, I'm truly sincere in this, maybe you don't understand what physics is and so you made a post such as this. And the reason I have repeated the question over and over and rephrased it is because I have not recieved an answer, but rather different viewpoints and different questions in return. Instead of attacking me maybe you should try and solve my question or keep reading on the sidelines.







Before you say you weren't attacking me I'll just say that refering to me with a "SIMPLE MIND" implies that I'm rudimentary and dumb. I know text lacks emotion so if I'm mis-understanding please inform me








[/quote]

First off...I wasnt necessarily trying to insult you by calling you simple-minded. I think that is a fair statement in light of the topic. In relation to understanding religion, I would venture to say that we are all simple-minded. As a human race, we are fairly incapable of understanding what is waiting for us after our earthly lives are done.

In reference to sitting on the sidelines...Ive BEEN involved in this thread. I already made a post about you asking questions and getting answers that you will never be satisfied with. And yes, you are getting answers, you just dont like the ones youre getting, so youre tossing them aside and saying "Next".

In reference to physics...I dont have an extensive background in it, but please inform me...what is physical about this conversation? I am familiar with Newtons Law, and that it is a property of physics. However, what we are talking about...all these posts...its all theory, its all otherworldly. YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE. So when whatshisface compared the equal and opposite reaction thing, it was a good ANALOGY. I dont see a problem with using analogies to try to convey what they believe is true. Just because it doesnt LITERALLY translate doesnt mean that he cant say that to help you understand where he is coming from. When you simply cast his thoughts aside, youre being disrespectful towards him and his beliefs.

If I were you, whenever I got a response I didnt agree with, I would most likely say "Interesting that you believe that" and move on. But you are in search of the perfect answer to one of the most asked and most unanswerable questions ever asked. This thread could go on forever, it could stay on the front page and get 23094798 responses, but no answer anybody gives you will ever satisfy you. You have to figure out what YOU believe on your own, and leave it at that.

Also I will refrain from trying to research an answer for you because, like I said, Im pretty sure what youre response will be if and when I were to come up with something concrete (never). Why waste my time reading through books and articles to come up with something when you will just come back with a two second reply doubting and refuting everything I were to say. Ive seen that enough in this thread.

Tom
[/quote]

Whoa Tom! allow me to answer with your quote "Interesting you believe that" and that can apply to how you assume how I answered in 2 seconds, assuming I'm looking for the perfect answer, assuming I don't care, assuming analogies, assuming you know how I feel, think, and answer.








[/quote]

i ate the pie


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

...But was it good?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

PygoFanatic said:


> ...But was it good?


besides the curley qs stuck inbetween my teeth...Indeed.


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## boozehound420 (Apr 18, 2005)

because religion is completly made up crap, it was created to control the mass pupulation, be good go to heaven be bad go to hell, every other story was just to make it seem true. wich wouldnt be vary hard considering the people back then had no technology no understanding of nature/earth/universe

these days its having the reverse affect though, religions killing other religions


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Adam12 said:


> I'm lost after learning that this world started with Adam and Eve. So their children had to bang each other to populate the world? Ya right.










We're all inbreds.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

lakerbrain said:


> no where in the bible does it state the type of fruit eaten in the garden by eve and adam, however scholars use knowledge to give us ideas of what it could have been, etc.


Your right...but no scholar worth his weight in spit will say what fruit it was or what fruit it COULD have been. Why...because the Bible does not say.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Do you want me to give you the PastorJeff human view? Because that will dissapoint you greatly. I don't know why a God of love would even consider eternal punishment...I really don't. But then again, I am not God. Do I view it as fair...nope. But I also scratch my head and wonder when I see the tsunami hit, a teen end their own life, a father sexually abuse his child, a mother who gives birth to a still born child, or the man living on the street homeless, dying, alone on the streets of Chicago. It all makes me wonder, question, and get angry. But in the end...God is God. How am I as a man supposed to understand God. This stance will make some people mad and I will get flamed for it. But this is MY stance, I am not asking anyone else to take it. Just respect that it is MY stance (Jeff puts on his flame retardant long underwear)


i believe god doesnt make or prevent anything from happening bad or good, its all about freedom and our choice to do as we please.. i also believe that after the flood, sadom and gamor ect. god came to us in human form, reincarnat in the flesh as jesus, to have a better understanding of why we do some of the things we do, and tried to teach us how to live, in return right before being persiquted, his last words "forgive them, they know not what they do" leaving us with at least some sort of redemption through christ..jesus is the only way for redemption, because jesus was the only way for god to understand and tolerate sin and temptation..and yes i said jesus is god, thier are christians who consider this as blasphemy and believe that jesus was/is not god but an entirely seperate entity and only the son of god..little do they know if they believe this, theyre not christians, theyre friggin jahova witneses and they dont know it..take a good look at john 14:8..

the above rant was not directed towards you pastor, im just still a little bit pissed off from having this discussion as to whether jesus was god or not with anouther christian and when i said he was she looked at me in shock and said "that is not right to say" so i called her a jahova and all hell broke loose


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> and yes i said Jesus is God


Amen! 


> thier are Christians who consider this as blasphemy


I don't know of any 'Christian' that doesn't believe Jesus is God.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > and yes i said Jesus is God
> 
> 
> Amen!
> ...


thank you, i may not go to church every week, but i had this woman church goer argue this with me and call her mother up and a couple of her friends,







passing a cell phone to me back and forth who all say they are christians and go to church every sunday, all trying to convince me that i was wrong..i had this same reaction of wtf!! so then they wanted to come over to my house and sit down and debate this and discuss the bible with me then get insulted when i called them jahovas..


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Louie D said:


> > and yes i said Jesus is God
> 
> 
> Amen!
> ...


I'm a Christian and I do not believe Jesus is God. 
If he was God who was he praying to?


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> If anyone cares to too, I would like to debunk the typical thinking of hell cause by logic alone hell is very very flawed.


I have read the Bible for13 years everyday and your thinking Crosshairs is logical and accurate in the matter of hell.

There is no place of burning torment that god sends people. The term HELL is an english word that was used in place of the origional words...SHEOL (Hebrew) and HADES (Greek).
This place is said to occupy BOTH righteous and unrighteous people. In fact Jesus was said to be in Hell for 3 days. (Acts 2). Why would GOD put his Son in a burning place of torment??

It's NOT a burning place of torment. It's simply the common grave of mankind.
There are illustrations or parables that use fire symbolically. They are not literal. Churches have used these accounts to put fear in the parishoners. In fact they borrowed the idea from pagan religions prior to our common era.


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## sicklid-holic (Mar 25, 2005)

This topic reminds me of a saint that almost went crazy, for years trying to figure out why there is "one god" but divide in 3. A) God the father B) God the son (Jesus), C) Holy Spirit 
One day he was walking the the ocean shore, he saw a boy digging a hole in the ground. He noticed, the boy was filling up the little hole w/ the ocean water. So ask the boy, what he was doing.
Boy answered he's tring to moved all the ocean into the hole he made. Immediately, he explain it is impossible to moved all the ocean into the little hole. Boy answered him, 
Its the same, as understanding God is beyond any mans knowledge and capability, and the boy dissapeared.

BTW, I tried my best to write it as I remembered the story.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Pat said:


> > and yes i said Jesus is God
> 
> 
> Amen!
> ...


I'm a Christian and I do not believe Jesus is God. 
If he was God who was he praying to?
[/quote]








same exact thing she said..

i got my beliefs, too each thier own but if you get a chance, check out john 14:8..one of the major diffrences between jahovas and christians is agknowledging christ as god which the bible points out several times, jahovas like to take the bible word for word, and to be honest i dont know how they come up with half the sh*t they come up with.. this is why they dont agknowledge the "trinity" even tho the bible state god, jesus, and the holy spirit is "one" entity in 3 forms several times in the bible, again any debate with me on this would be just out of personal belief this is why i got frustrated with her, tried to refer to the bible in one breath and when i addressed this with reference of christs actuall words, shed revert to all out speculation, but if you would like to refer to the bible then please refer to john 14:8... with no speculations as to who or why jesus prayed in general or the act of prayer itself..actually id love to hear pastorjeffs views on this..personal i see it ludicris not to acknowedge christ as god but this could be my own biased catholic background and the interpritation i got from the bible from what ive read..


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Liquid said:


> but if you would like to refer to the bible then please refer to john 14:8... with no speculations as to who or why jesus prayed in general or the act of prayer itself..


You are refering to when Jesus was asked to show the Father. He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Yes this is a perfect example to disprove that Jesus is God.

Jesus was merely explaining that he perfectly reflected his fathers qualities.
He wasn't saying he's the Father.
For those who are confused about this argument. Liquid is saying that Jesus and the Father are part of a 3 person Godhead. The dogma is that Jesus and the father are equal.

That is false. All you have to do is read verse 28 of the chapter you cited. Jesus plainly states, "...the Father is GREATER than I am".

They're not equal. Jesus himself says it.


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## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

Well the first question of hell is and interesting one if you are still interested. I know I am late to the conversation but here goes. O and by the way this will be compleatly from the bible. There is no doctorn or tradition of men in this. If you choose to argue with this point thats fine, its the bible you dont belive not me. O and if you have no bible and would like one pm me and I would be happy to make shure you get one free of charge. It is important to look at the bible while you read these things so you know it is not from me.
Hell fire? Well this is supost to be a place of everlasting torcher? Look at Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 that says "For the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun." I would read all of 7 8 and 9 but that is too much to type. But I will continue with 10. All that your hands finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge now wisdom in she'ol the place to which you are going." Older traslations of the bible may say hell instead of she'ol. But as it is easy to tell hell cannot mean the existance of pain or feeling. Does that make sence? So fire and brimstone? No. Also look at psalms 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish." No thinking facilitys? Shurely people in hell or a torchurein burning place dont exist. If you would like more scriptures pointing this out I would be happy to show some more. But I ask anyone to give a verse of the bible that says any human is going there. THAT POINT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE!!! ITS FALSE NOT IN THE BIBLE NOT TRUE!


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

sicklid-holic said:


> This topic reminds me of a saint that almost went crazy, for years trying to figure out why there is "one god" but divide in 3. A) God the father B) God the son (Jesus), C) Holy Spirit
> One day he was walking the the ocean shore, he saw a boy digging a hole in the ground. He noticed, the boy was filling up the little hole w/ the ocean water. So ask the boy, what he was doing.
> Boy answered he's tring to moved all the ocean into the hole he made. Immediately, he explain it is impossible to moved all the ocean into the little hole. Boy answered him,
> Its the same, as understanding God is beyond any mans knowledge and capability, and the boy dissapeared.
> ...


well said, who is a christian of faith to speculate as to why christ walked in hell, to speculate why or how hell isnt possable in death or in life, in physical and metaphysical forms.. who are we as "christians" of faith to speculate any and all of gods works and reasoning just to sum it all up so it makes sence to us. i know who i am, and as a man of war, rage, and flesh, the only thing i will ever submit to without any question, doubt, or speculation is christ and trust me its not out of fear, but the exact opposite, i dont need to see him to know hes there and i dont need to hear him to feel his divine unconditional love and pain which leaves me no choice but to submit...







fear and anything else id be able to handle..


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

Liquid said:


> This topic reminds me of a saint that almost went crazy, for years trying to figure out why there is "one god" but divide in 3. A) God the father B) God the son (Jesus), C) Holy Spirit
> One day he was walking the the ocean shore, he saw a boy digging a hole in the ground. He noticed, the boy was filling up the little hole w/ the ocean water. So ask the boy, what he was doing.
> Boy answered he's tring to moved all the ocean into the hole he made. Immediately, he explain it is impossible to moved all the ocean into the little hole. Boy answered him,
> Its the same, as understanding God is beyond any mans knowledge and capability, and the boy dissapeared.
> ...


well said, who is a christian of faith to speculate as to why christ walked in hell, to speculate why or how hell isnt possable in death or in life, in physical and metaphysical forms.. who are we as "christians" of faith to speculate any and all of gods works and reasoning just to sum it all up so it makes sence to us. i know who i am, and as a man of war, rage, and flesh, the only thing i will ever submit to without any question, doubt, or speculation is christ and trust me its not out of fear, but the exact opposite, i dont need to see him to know hes there and i dont need to hear him to feel his divine unconditional love and pain which leaves me no choice but to submit...







fear and anything else id be able to handle..
[/quote]

That was f'n beautiful man...

Tom


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## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

Pat said:


> but if you would like to refer to the bible then please refer to john 14:8... with no speculations as to who or why jesus prayed in general or the act of prayer itself..


You are refering to when Jesus was asked to show the Father. He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Yes this is a perfect example to disprove that Jesus is God.

Jesus was merely explaining that he perfectly reflected his fathers qualities.
He wasn't saying he's the Father.
For those who are confused about this argument. Liquid is saying that Jesus and the Father are part of a 3 person Godhead. The dogma is that Jesus and the father are equal.

That is false. All you have to do is read verse 28 of the chapter you cited. Jesus plainly states, "...the Father is GREATER than I am".

They're not equal. Jesus himself says it.
[/quote]






















John 17:3 " This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4). I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

I dont understand how that could be somone talking to themself or to anyone but a father. In fact Read all of John 15-18 and show me one time when Jesus referd to himself as true god, or equal to god, how about part of god? He does say in union with god. But I am in union with people at work, my wife, my brothers am I part of them?

Tell you what just show me this from the bible where it says trinity or that they are all one person.


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## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> The problem with religions, is that they are personal beliefs. What is faith to me, is herecy to you. What is the word of God to you, is fiction to me. I see my life as something Ive done, my spirit, something I create through my thought and actions, others see it as something God helped me do and thathe forgives me for my ignorance and arrogance.
> 
> See, whatever you believe, is what hell and heaven is to you. For me, hell would be dying without feeling free, without having a happy spirit. For others, its a place where you live in perfect harmony with Jesus. Both are equally true and equally valid, as faith is what creates one's vision and reality when it comes to these types of spiritual questions.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. I found a religion based on the bible. The word of god. Anything beyond that is human thinking and not worth the papor its written on.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Pat said:


> but if you would like to refer to the bible then please refer to john 14:8... with no speculations as to who or why jesus prayed in general or the act of prayer itself..


You are refering to when Jesus was asked to show the Father. He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Yes this is a perfect example to disprove that Jesus is God.

Jesus was merely explaining that he perfectly reflected his fathers qualities.
He wasn't saying he's the Father.
For those who are confused about this argument. Liquid is saying that Jesus and the Father are part of a 3 person Godhead. The dogma is that Jesus and the father are equal.

[/quote]

he also says..

" do you not believe that i am in the father and that the father is in me? the words that i speak to you i do not speak my own authority but the father that dwells in me does the works. believe me that i am in the father and the father is in me or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. and whatever you ask in my name, that i will do that the father may be glorified in the son, if you ask anything in my name i will do it, if you love me keep my commandments.

and i will pray the father and and he will give you anouther helper that he may abide with you forever, the spirit of truth whome the world cannot receive because it niether sees him nor knows him, but you know him for he dwells with you and will be in you.."

as for him saying "i am going to the father for he is greater then i" i understand that as to be the diffrence between god/christ in heaven and god/christ on earth in the flesh..hard for me to explain but i dont see it as literally as you do..


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## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

he also says..

" do you not believe that i am in the father and that the father is in me? the words that i speak to you i do not speak my own authority but the father that dwells in me does the works. believe me that i am in the father and the father is in me or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. and whatever you ask in my name, that i will do that the father may be glorified in the son, if you ask anything in my name i will do it, if you love me keep my commandments.

and i will pray the father and and he will give you anouther helper that he may abide with you forever, the spirit of truth whome the world cannot receive because it niether sees him nor knows him, but you know him for he dwells with you and will be in you.."

as for him saying "i am going to the father for he is greater then i" i understand that as to be the diffrence between god/christ in heaven and god/christ on earth in the flesh..hard for me to explain but i dont see it as literally as you do..
[/quote]

Yes that would seem to be the problem. And you know there is alot of people who belive that as well. I am not trying to down your opinion or anything. But I find conversations on this topic interesting. If you dont care to discus this anymore I wont. And I know this is not the best place to talk about these things. So if you are uncomfortable with this feel free to tell me.

Would you mind looking at John 17:11 "Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are."

Do you notice here that Jesus wants his workers on earth to be one just as he and the father are one? Does this mean we will be linked together, 3 individuals becoming one? No he wants us to work so close and for the same goal its like we are one. And in this way it means being one just like jesus and god are one? Does that make since?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.

colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.

2nd corinthians 5:19 to whit, that god was in christ recounciling the world unto himself

1st thessalonians 5:18 in everything give thanks: for this is the will of god in christ concerning you.

isaiah therefore the lord himself shall give you a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name immanuel <the immanuel translates to "god is with us">

john 1 in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god.

what jesus taught and what he did are tied inseparabbly to who he is. john shows jesus as fully human and fully god. although jesus took upon himself full humanity and lived as a man, he never ceased to be eternal god who has always existed. as a christian if we cannot or do not believe this basic truth then we cannot have enough faith to trust our eternal destiny to him.


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

Liquid said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

jaejae said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....
[/quote]

thats because your a fool and im sorry that you cant help that, how in the world you or anyone can take yourself serious is beyond me :laugh: for your own sake i hope its due to age, believe it or not i just found out through pm that dannyboy is only 17 years old which makes a whole lot of sense to me now and i actually feel bad, this whole time i thought he was that hippy in his avitar







..


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

Liquid said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....
[/quote]

thats because your a fool and im sorry that you cant help that, how in the world you or anyone can take yourself serious is beyond me :laugh: for your own sake i hope its due to age, believe it or not i just found out through pm that dannyboy is only 17 years old which makes a whole lot of sense to me now and i actually feel bad, this whole time i thought he was that hippy in his avitar :laugh: ..
[/quote]

Hey liquid, doesn't the bible say something about people calling people fools being in danger of hellfire or something...

And, what has my age or danny's got to do with anything???


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

jaejae said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....
[/quote]

thats because your a fool and im sorry that you cant help that, how in the world you or anyone can take yourself serious is beyond me :laugh: for your own sake i hope its due to age, believe it or not i just found out through pm that dannyboy is only 17 years old which makes a whole lot of sense to me now and i actually feel bad, this whole time i thought he was that hippy in his avitar :laugh: ..
[/quote]

Hey liquid, doesn't the bible say something about people calling people fools being in danger of hellfire or something...

And, what has my age or danny's got to do with anything???
[/quote]








jesus loves you, i dont..how bout you make your own thread title it, "waiting on someone to take me serious", and if im not there within 5 minutes, you can go ahead and start without me..


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

Liquid said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....
[/quote]

thats because your a fool and im sorry that you cant help that, how in the world you or anyone can take yourself serious is beyond me :laugh: for your own sake i hope its due to age, believe it or not i just found out through pm that dannyboy is only 17 years old which makes a whole lot of sense to me now and i actually feel bad, this whole time i thought he was that hippy in his avitar :laugh: ..
[/quote]

Atleast I live by what I believe in. I dont believe any true Christian, or any man of faith, could have the deep rooted hate for other people that you possess. Whether its arabs, or another member on this very board. I argue with a lot of people on here, but in reality, I would never stand by my judgements on them if I were to ever meet them, I would probably buy ya a beer and have a laugh over the sh*t storm that is the PFury Lounge. Ive learned to forgive people, and to reject my prejudicial human instincts, and life has been much better since. I may not pray or go to church or even call myself a Christian, but I believe that I live more by the Christian principles than most followers.


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## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

Liquid said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


timothy 3:15,16 I am writing you these things, though I am hoping to come to you shortly, 15 but in case I am delayed, that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in God's household, which is the congregation of [the] living God, a pillar and support of the truth. 16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: 'He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.'

Did you notice godly devotion that jesus showed being manifest in the flesh declared righteous in spirit. Why would jesus need godly devotion if he was god? He does not.

Colossians 1:14-15 "even the forgivness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god."

I am the spiting image of my dad. Are you? I am not my dad or any part of him.

2nd corinthians 5:16-19 Consequently from now on we know no man according to the flesh. Even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, certainly we now know him so no more. 17 Consequently if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new creation; the old things passed away, look! new things have come into existence. 18 But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and he committed the word of the reconciliation to us.

Notice god who reconciled us to himself through Christ. 
god was by means of christ reconciling a world to himself.
So this must mean god (seperate entity) Used Christ (seperate intity) to do his will.

1st thessalonians 5:18 In connection with everything give thanks. For this is the will of God in union with Christ Jesus respecting you.

God in union with Christ. Again, in union can be like partners with anyone, going for a common goal.

Isaiah Emanual translates to "god is with us" 
Yes it does. And Jesus was so like god that it was almost like seeing god.

john 1:1-3 1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

The word was a god. It does not say almighty god. Verse 2 brings out "with God" not part of god.

"what jesus taught and what he did are tied inseparabbly to who he is. john shows jesus as fully human and fully god. although jesus took upon himself full humanity and lived as a man, he never ceased to be eternal god who has always existed. as a christian if we cannot or do not believe this basic truth then we cannot have enough faith to trust our eternal destiny to him."

I dont think the scriptures bring out that god is jesus. Why would he have never said I am god? Why would he never say I am equal to god? Why would he not say anything about being in a trinity? Why would he pray to himself? Why when satin was trying to temp him to jump off a wall and see if god would send an angel to save him? If he was god he would not have to ask god to send an angel? 
Find me one place that Jesus himself says I am equal to god, I am god, I am a trinity.

Well I will have to get back with you on monday, its time to go camping. Have a great day.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


im impressed that you used the word "plethora"


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Liquid said:


> i got my beliefs, too each thier own but if you get a chance, check out john 14:8..one of the major diffrences between jahovas and christians is agknowledging christ as god which the bible points out several times, jahovas like to take the bible word for word, and to be honest i dont know how they come up with half the sh*t they come up with.. this is why they dont agknowledge the "trinity" even tho the bible state god, jesus, and the holy spirit is "one" entity in 3 forms several times in the bible, again any debate with me on this would be just out of personal belief this is why i got frustrated with her, tried to refer to the bible in one breath and when i addressed this with reference of christs actuall words, shed revert to all out speculation, but if you would like to refer to the bible then please refer to john 14:8... with no speculations as to who or why jesus prayed in general or the act of prayer itself..actually id love to hear pastorjeffs views on this..personal i see it ludicris not to acknowedge christ as god but this could be my own biased catholic background and the interpritation i got from the bible from what ive read..


Dude I'd like to point out to you Jehovas witnesses ARE Christians. Its catholics that are not. And have twisted the words of the bible to meet their own wants. They practice idolitry, blasphmey and all sorts of other crap that is not approved by god. Oh not to mention the millions of people that were killed by the catholic church.
How many people have JW's killed to spread the word of god? 0.

Some of your other points made after this statement were good. But I felt the need to address the total flaw in your statement here because it was total crap. 
I'm thinking when you spoke with that witness. And please call them witnesses referring to then as Jehovas is very disrespectful Jehova is the name of god not what you would call one of his followers. 
Thats why they get offended. Because you are TRYING to offend them.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

objectively...i must assertain that this thread has attained a heirarchy of being the most rediculous thread ever formed within the electrical web that is p-fury...dwarfing such incoherance as the "ban silence" thread, the "am i a dipshit" thread, and more recently, the "lakes dont have beaches" thread...l8r.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> I'm thinking when you spoke with that witness. And please call them witnesses referring to then as Jehovas is very disrespectful Jehova is the name of god not what you would call one of his followers.
> Thats why they get offended. Because you are TRYING to offend them.


C'mon...thats the fun part! Give them a run for their money!

One thing that ticks me off and really gets under my skin (Sunshine...this is NOT to you.!) is when people make these ignorant assumptions regarding what "Christianity" is or is not.

Christians are not these super sissy, wussy, moron, hippie, love sending, blue eyed peace makers. That has nothing to do with what it means to be a Christian what-so-ever! Dannyboy had it right when he said that he lives more of a Christian life than many people who claim to be followers of Jesus! How sad is that?!? That says volumes about the state of the Christian faith.

Being a Christian is NOT something you are...it is a way of life, a personal relationship, a personal live-long comittment, something you continue to strive for that you will *never* achieve. So many people label themselves "Christians" but are the *farthest* thing from it. Others are blamed for *not* being "Christian" and they are the *most* Christian people I will ever meet.

Very sad...very sad. I am done with my rant now...I will go back to my corner.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

r1dermon said:


> objectively...i must assertain that this thread has attained a heirarchy of being the most rediculous thread ever formed within the electrical web that is p-fury...dwarfing such incoherance as the "ban silence" thread, the "am i a dipshit" thread, and more recently, the "lakes dont have beaches" thread...l8r.


Dont forget the "if I buy a red convertible, will I be cool yet" thread.


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

Ive got a question I was always curious about...Christ was Jewish, correct? If correct, then my real question is this...Why shouldnt followers of Christ want to be Jewish since he was as well?

Probably a really simple answer, just one Ive never been exposed to...thanks.

Tom


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

PastorJeff said:


> One thing that ticks me off and really gets under my skin (Sunshine...this is NOT to you.!) is when people make these ignorant assumptions regarding what "Christianity" is or is not.
> 
> Christians are not these super sissy, wussy, moron, hippie, love sending, blue eyed peace makers. That has nothing to do with what it means to be a Christian what-so-ever! Dannyboy had it right when he said that he lives more of a Christian life than many people who claim to be followers of Jesus! How sad is that?!? That says volumes about the state of the Christian faith.
> 
> ...


Being Christian is beliving Christ died on the cross for our sins and thru our daily lives trying to be more christ like thru our actions.
Like you said Being Christian is a way of life. JW's Do lead that way of life or at least they try their damnnest to do so. 
But you didn't know that because your too busy belittling them and trying to find flaws in them individually. Most people in todays world couldn't handle being a true christian.

At this point I feel this has side tracked far enough from the original point of this thread. And I am not here to defend or insult anyones specific religious beliefs. Hell is what you belive it to be. Based on your personal beliefs. 
If you want an explanation of what hell is it is clearly written in the bible what happens to those that chose to turn their backs on god. 
It also clearly states what happens to those that do. (And it is not heaven) But if you want your answeres search within yourself thru guidance that the bible provides.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

PygoFanatic said:


> Ive got a question I was always curious about...Christ was Jewish, correct? If correct, then my real question is this...Why shouldnt followers of Christ want to be Jewish since he was as well?
> 
> Probably a really simple answer, just one Ive never been exposed to...thanks.
> 
> Tom


Good question Tom!

The Jewish community believes and is looking for the return of the messiah. Christians believe that he has already come...and that was in the person of Jesus Christ. The Jewish community believes that Jesus was a great guy and all...but he was not the messiah.

Hope that makes sense. I have alot of respect for the Jewish community. We just believe differently on a prophecy and fufillment of that prophecy.


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

PastorJeff said:


> Ive got a question I was always curious about...Christ was Jewish, correct? If correct, then my real question is this...Why shouldnt followers of Christ want to be Jewish since he was as well?
> 
> Probably a really simple answer, just one Ive never been exposed to...thanks.
> 
> Tom


Good question Tom!

The Jewish community believes and is looking for the return of the messiah. Christians believe that he has already come...and that was in the person of Jesus Christ. The Jewish community believes that Jesus was a great guy and all...but he was not the messiah.

Hope that makes sense. I have alot of respect for the Jewish community. We just believe differently on a prophecy and fufillment of that prophecy.
[/quote]

OK...I swear...Im totally not trying to bait you into an argument...I just have more questions. Does that mean that Jesus was awaiting a messiah that wasnt himself? Was Christ a Jew up until his death?

Tom


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Being Christian is beliving Christ died on the cross for our sins and thru our daily lives trying to be more christ like thru our actions.
> Like you said Being Christian is a way of life. JW's Do lead that way of life or at least they try their damnnest to do so.
> But you didn't know that because your too busy belittling them and trying to find flaws in them individually. Most people in todays world couldn't handle being a true christian.
> 
> ...


Wow...did I hit your hot button? Where am I belittling and finding flaws? I don't know where your getting your foundation of Christianity but the foundation is that Jesus Christ was not only the son of God but was God as well. That is the whole point...take that away and Christianity becomes no different than anything else.

And for your information..."They believe that Jesus Christ was "A" god...not part of the Godhead. And the position of diety is open to many other things as well. I am not bashing JW's...but just stating what they believe.

They do NOT believe that Jesus was God. They believe that before his time on earth Jesus was actually Micheal the archangel. After his death he only arose in spirit (not in bodily form) and this spirit returned to earth in 1914. And soon all those that are not JW's are going to be destroyed. Jesus was the first thing that Jehovah (or God) created.

Not sure where your getting your information...but you are WAAAAAY off. The JW's would be insulted at how you are slaughtering their faith. And they would tell you that they are NOT Christian...peroid.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

MR.FREEZ said:


> If anyone cares to too, I would like to debunk the typical thinking of hell cause by logic alone hell is very very flawed.


I have read the Bible for13 years everyday and your thinking Crosshairs is logical and accurate in the matter of hell.

There is no place of burning torment that god sends people. The term HELL is an english word that was used in place of the origional words...SHEOL (Hebrew) and HADES (Greek).
This place is said to occupy BOTH righteous and unrighteous people. In fact Jesus was said to be in Hell for 3 days. (Acts 2). Why would GOD put his Son in a burning place of torment??

It's NOT a burning place of torment. It's simply the common grave of mankind.
There are illustrations or parables that use fire symbolically. They are not literal. Churches have used these accounts to put fear in the parishoners. In fact they borrowed the idea from pagan religions prior to our common era.
[/quote]

Thank you sir! Helps clear up alot of my view and thinking on the subject.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

PygoFanatic said:


> OK...I swear...Im totally not trying to bait you into an argument...I just have more questions. Does that mean that Jesus was awaiting a messiah that wasnt himself? Was Christ a Jew up until his death?
> 
> Tom


No...another good question! Jesus was a jew. And the whole reason he was crucified (politically speaking) is because he was claming to be God himself. He was telling the Jewish community that he WAS the fufillment of the prophecy. This really honked off the religious leaders of the time, and they ultimately called for his death.

That is the realllllly short version. No...good question Tom!


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Not sure where your getting your information...but you are WAAAAAY off. The JW's would be insulted at how you are slaughtering their faith. And they would tell you that they are NOT Christian...peroid.


Actually he was quite accurate as to there beliefs. You're accurate in some their doctrine but everything else you are way off.

As for the term Christian... quite simply it's a follower of Christ's footsteps. No where do the scriptures define the meaning. In fact Christ's followers weren't refered to any title as such until they preached in Antioch.

And your comparison of a chinese person saying he's scottish, with Jehovah's Witnesses saying they follow Christ... I'm not sure I see the comparison. It's all relative.

As for the persecution they have suffered.... speak with historians of the holocaust, in fact, I invite you to phone the holocaust museum in Washington and ask them the history. Go there and you will see the exhibits.

Many of the human rights worldwide have been established because of the rights JW's have fought for.
In fact in Canada, the vast majority of the bill of rights has been established from the court cases that have been fought.

And regards the Trinity...
it was an adopted creed during the rule of Constantine in the 4th century AD. That's a fact.
Prior to that there was no such doctrine in so called Christendom.


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

double post... oops.


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## Adam12 (Jul 15, 2006)

GOD DAMMIT!


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Pat said:


> Not sure where your getting your information...but you are WAAAAAY off. The JW's would be insulted at how you are slaughtering their faith. And they would tell you that they are NOT Christian...peroid.


Actually he was quite accurate as to there beliefs. You're accurate in some their doctrine but everything else you are way off.

As for the term Christian... quite simply it's a follower of Christ's footsteps. No where do the scriptures define the meaning. In fact Christ's followers weren't refered to any title as such until they preached in Antioch.

And your comparison of a chinese person saying he's scottish, with Jehovah's Witnesses saying they follow Christ... I'm not sure I see the comparison. It's all relative.

As for the persecution they have suffered.... speak with historians of the holocaust, in fact, I invite you to phone the holocaust museum in Washington and ask them the history. Go there and you will see the exhibits.

Many of the human rights worldwide have been established because of the rights JW's have fought for.
In fact in Canada, the vast majority of the bill of rights has been established from the court cases that have been fought.

And regards the Trinity...
it was an adopted creed during the rule of Constantine in the 4th century AD. That's a fact.
Prior to that there was no such doctrine in so called Christendom.
[/quote]

well i hope your prepared to tell every pastor they are "way off" because accept it or not the basic concept of the christian faith is the belief that jesus was god manifest in the flesh.. i have pointed out where it says this in many books of the bible word for word and you reject them all out of personal egocentric speculation, the same speculation and views that persequted and sentenced christ to death..its just funny to me how many jahova witnesses label themselves as christians..you are in the wrong faith..

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

so your saying john has it all wrong here and what he meant was that god impregnated mary with his own semen thus giving birth to christ the son of god







your looking at the word of the bible and taking it in a scientifical text, qwite literaly, just so it can make sence to you and in return have rejected the basic princable the christian faith stands on..here im showing where the bible says christ is god, ive showed you where christ himself has stated that he was god in the flesh "I AM IN HIM AND HE IS IN ME", and through out many books in the bible written hundreds of years from each other all predicting and saying the same thing, testiments of his own deciples and in return youve answered with speculation based on jesus saying "father in heaven" and putting all this into a contemporary explaination that jesus meant his biological father in the sky, the jews took this view untill they confronted jesus, and when christ gave them the truth they persequted him..

1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

2nd Corinthians 5:19 To whit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself

*!!!Colossians 2:9-10 For in Him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:!!!*

1st Thessalonians 5:18 In everything give thanks: for this is "the will of God in Christ Jesus" concerning you.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, "The Mighty God", "The everlasting Father", "The Prince of Peace".

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God "and" our Savior Jesus Christ

2nd Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

PastorJeff said:


> Wow...did I hit your hot button? Where am I belittling and finding flaws? I don't know where your getting your foundation of Christianity but the foundation is that Jesus Christ was not only the son of God but was God as well. That is the whole point...take that away and Christianity becomes no different than anything else.
> 
> And for your information..."They believe that Jesus Christ was "A" god...not part of the Godhead. And the position of diety is open to many other things as well. I am not bashing JW's...but just stating what they believe.
> 
> ...


No not really you are just totally wrong and I needed to correct you. I also do not like being told by somone that obviously has very bad knowlage of something they are speaking of that I am incorrect when I know that I am not because I was raised in the truth.

And aside from that I think you are getting JW's confused with Mormons or something else.

Because As far as JW's are concerned the last time that Jesus came and hung out with man was shortly after his crucifixion.

Please understand that you have been absoloutly incorrect as to what you think that JW's belive. I'm thinking you base what you think we belive on what you've been told by non JW's and have simply not taken the time to undertand what it truly is that they belive. They are very much so christians if one has told you otherwise perhaps you met someone who was disfellowshiped and was speaking poorly about the group. But frankly they are one of the few christian groups that actually aspire in their daily lives to be more Christlike. They use christs actions while living as an example of how they should try to be in their lives towards each other, towards those that would harm them and towards God. I'm not interested in passing around mistruths or debate on these basic truths. Altho I was raised a JW I have attended many other churches in my quest for biblical truth. I have found none that explain christianity and the teachings of the bible as well as JW's. Most times my visits to these little churches leaves me spirtually empty. But I will be dammed if I will allow you to sit there and spread untruths about the JW's and tell me that they are not christians and that I myself am not a christian.

Whats really sad here Jeff is some of the people on this board think that you're actually a man of some faith and are knowlageable on this subject. And they are actually thinking that what you are saying is accurate and true. What you are doing is misleading people. But if you honestly don't know I don't hold that aganst you. But I do challange you to aquire accurate information about that faith before you continue to talk about JW's in the manner that you have.

If you like I can contact some brothers out your way and set up a meeting where they can expalin biblical teachings to you. Perhaps they will be able to clean some of that garbadge you've been taught out and reaplace it with truth. Then you may come to an accurate understanding of the bible and how it is taught at the Kingdom Hall. Who knows perhaps you will even give it a visit.

If not thats fine. But I would appreciate it very much if you would stop saying that JW's are not christians.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....
[/quote]

thats because your a fool and im sorry that you cant help that, how in the world you or anyone can take yourself serious is beyond me :laugh: for your own sake i hope its due to age, believe it or not i just found out through pm that dannyboy is only 17 years old which makes a whole lot of sense to me now and i actually feel bad, this whole time i thought he was that hippy in his avitar :laugh: ..
[/quote]

Atleast I live by what I believe in. I dont believe any true Christian, or any man of faith, could have the deep rooted hate for other people that you possess. Whether its arabs, or another member on this very board. I argue with a lot of people on here, but in reality, I would never stand by my judgements on them if I were to ever meet them, I would probably buy ya a beer and have a laugh over the sh*t storm that is the PFury Lounge. Ive learned to forgive people, and to reject my prejudicial human instincts, and life has been much better since. I may not pray or go to church or even call myself a Christian, but I believe that I live more by the Christian principles than most followers.
[/quote]

ill admit im far from perfect, as far as how i live, ive made mistakes, i still make alot of them, ive been married for 8 years and two beautiful kids..i know how to forgive and show mercy, i may not be good at it but i try from time to time..i refuse to pretend to be anything else but what my nature is at heart, and in my faith i may not be a christian poster boy but i do listen up when christ speaks to my heart letting me know when im f*cking up and letting my demons get the best of me, i may not take heed every time he speaks but i always listen and learn through lessons, i know he knows my heart.. either way i would never question but i accept and trust his judgement..ive got demons, so to speak, we all do, but when i compare the amount of love that is in my life to the amount of hate that infests me..the love far more out weighs the hate and i know this is christs will and his embrace..i agree with dante that every man has to walk through his own hell and trials before finding the true nature of mans heart/christs heart and through him, "by choice" reaching heaven..


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## jabear32 (Jun 6, 2006)

God is love and for that and that alone we have free will. You have to have faith to believe in free will. Also God does not punish anyone he has to much love for all. He does however alow things and some time bad thing to happen. Some of these thing to be for the porpuse to bring a greater good. If you look to God he will help you , you may not what you want but what you need. It is the same a being a parent I give to my children alot not all the thing they want but I do give them what they need and in many cases it is what is best for them. This is the same that God does for his children, as it the bible says ask and you will recieve it does not say excatly what you want but what you need God will provide. i do not know alot on this subject but I will say from my life if God was not there I would have been gone along time ago.
Jabear32


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## havoc1995 (Jun 3, 2006)

I'm sorry, I came into this discussion late... I read the first few pages, but it got quite exhaustive. If anyone has questions about faith, God, free will, Hell, etc. please feel free to pm me.









Ok, I just saw somethin that kinda disturbed me... Catholics are Christians. End of story. They believe in the Trinity. We are one body in Christ and there chould be no divisions among us.


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Liquid...
This started as a thread regarding Crosshairs concern about "Hellfire". I answered his question and he seemed satisfied with the answer, probably because it was most reasonable.

You list numerous things that are easy to understand if read in context. I could explain them all here, clearly at that, but I have better things to do than get into a religious debate on an open forum with almost 12,000 members.

It's your right to believe in the Trinity. I have no problem with that. 
I'll make you a deal. I'll convert to your faith if, in the 30,000 verses of the Bible, you can show me one with the word 'Trinity'.

I know this will not happen. I have a shelf full of Bible versions sitting in front of me and not one has the word 'Trinity' in it.


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

Liquid said:


> timothy 3:16 and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, god was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory.
> 
> colossians 1:14 15 in whome jesus we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible god.
> 
> ...


Man....I can just imagine you in the crusades waving a sword in one hand, a bible in the other, and butchering "Arab" babies.....
[/quote]

thats because your a fool and im sorry that you cant help that, how in the world you or anyone can take yourself serious is beyond me :laugh: for your own sake i hope its due to age, believe it or not i just found out through pm that dannyboy is only 17 years old which makes a whole lot of sense to me now and i actually feel bad, this whole time i thought he was that hippy in his avitar :laugh: ..
[/quote]

Atleast I live by what I believe in. I dont believe any true Christian, or any man of faith, could have the deep rooted hate for other people that you possess. Whether its arabs, or another member on this very board. I argue with a lot of people on here, but in reality, I would never stand by my judgements on them if I were to ever meet them, I would probably buy ya a beer and have a laugh over the sh*t storm that is the PFury Lounge. Ive learned to forgive people, and to reject my prejudicial human instincts, and life has been much better since. I may not pray or go to church or even call myself a Christian, but I believe that I live more by the Christian principles than most followers.
[/quote]

ill admit im far from perfect, as far as how i live, ive made mistakes, i still make alot of them, ive been married for 8 years and two beautiful kids..i know how to forgive and show mercy, i may not be good at it but i try from time to time..i refuse to pretend to be anything else but what my nature is at heart, and in my faith i may not be a christian poster boy but i do listen up when christ speaks to my heart letting me know when im f*cking up and letting my demons get the best of me, i may not take heed every time he speaks but i always listen and learn through lessons, i know he knows my heart.. either way i would never question but i accept and trust his judgement..ive got demons, so to speak, we all do, but when i compare the amount of love that is in my life to the amount of hate that infests me..the love far more out weighs the hate and i know this is christs will and his embrace..i agree with dante that every man has to walk through his own hell and trials before finding the true nature of mans heart/christs heart and through him, "by choice" reaching heaven..
[/quote]

Show some love brother......


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## BLUEDIAMONDRHOM (Jul 19, 2006)

mormons are christians too. is anyone here mormon?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Pat said:


> Liquid...
> This started as a thread regarding Crosshairs concern about "Hellfire". I answered his question and he seemed satisfied with the answer, probably because it was most reasonable.
> 
> You list numerous things that are easy to understand if read in context. I could explain them all here, clearly at that, but I have better things to do than get into a religious debate on an open forum with almost 12,000 members.
> ...


Colossians 2:9-10 For in Him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power

2nd Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

if the actual word "trinity" is all that is seperateing you from the truth then, i cant help you..nothing personal..


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> If you like I can contact some brothers out your way and set up a meeting where they can expalin biblical teachings to you. Perhaps they will be able to clean some of that garbadge you've been taught out and reaplace it with truth. Then you may come to an accurate understanding of the bible and how it is taught at the Kingdom Hall. Who knows perhaps you will even give it a visit.
> 
> If not thats fine. But I would appreciate it very much if you would stop saying that JW's are not christians.


LOL....typical response Sunshine. So typical..."set up a meeting", it only results in wasted hours of my (and the JW's) life. JW is not a Christian belief, it is a manipulation of Christianity by a guy who knew absolutly NOTHING about translation of Greek to English. It is a faith that claims that there will be 144,000 who enter heaven (for lack of a better term) when there are millions of people in the JW church (where the rest will remain on earth).

JW is not Christianity...there is NO salvation through Jesus Christ with the JW faith. Salvation comes through the organization plain and simple. When you take away the deity of Christ, you take away the foundation of Christianity...which no longer makes it Christianity. Pat is very correct at the development of the word "Christianity"

Are JW's bad people...no, I am not saying that. Three of my best friends are JW believers. But they would openly say that there is a HUGE difference between Christianity and the beliefs of the Organization.

Discredit me all you want. It does not change the differences between our beliefs. You have yours and I have mine.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

PastorJeff said:


> If you like I can contact some brothers out your way and set up a meeting where they can expalin biblical teachings to you. Perhaps they will be able to clean some of that garbadge you've been taught out and reaplace it with truth. Then you may come to an accurate understanding of the bible and how it is taught at the Kingdom Hall. Who knows perhaps you will even give it a visit.
> 
> If not thats fine. But I would appreciate it very much if you would stop saying that JW's are not christians.


LOL....typical response Sunshine. So typical..."set up a meeting", it only results in wasted hours of my (and the JW's) life. JW is not a Christian belief, it is a manipulation of Christianity by a guy who knew absolutly NOTHING about translation of Greek to English. It is a faith that claims that there will be 144,000 who enter heaven (for lack of a better term) when there are millions of people in the JW church (where the rest will remain on earth).

JW is not Christianity...there is NO salvation through Jesus Christ with the JW faith. Salvation comes through the organization plain and simple. When you take away the deity of Christ, you take away the foundation of Christianity...which no longer makes it Christianity. Pat is very correct at the development of the word "Christianity"

Are JW's bad people...no, I am not saying that. Three of my best friends are JW believers. But they would openly say that there is a HUGE difference between Christianity and the beliefs of the Organization.

Discredit me all you want. It does not change the differences between our beliefs. You have yours and I have mine.
[/quote]

Typical response? Yeah well you seem to know some about the group but alot of your info is flat out wrong. 
you have very little that your comming forward with that is actual truth. 
JESUS IS SALVATION! Get that. Are you hearing that that is one of our beliefs. Please don't sit there and try and explain to me what I've been taught since I was born. Because you are close but again alot of your info is off base.

You're saying that JW's aren't christian is the same thing as me saying all baptists are all child molestors. It's just not true. 
The trinity has nothing to do with christianity.Just like you state about JW's some guy translated it and interperted the word and came up with that concept.

Heres another typical response and I'm sure you were waiting for. Your qoting alot of your statements from The KJV of the bible or othere "VERSIONS" why don't you use the proper translation of the bible rathere then the king james VERSION? As it's been found since the scriptures were translated that King James edited alot of sh*t in the bible so that it fit his needs. So why dont you reffereance a TRANSLATION of the bible rather then an inherrantly flawed VERSION.

Again do not sit there and try to explain to me the religion that I was taught from birth. Because Jesus is not A God in our belife. He is not one of many gods he is the son of god. Sorry but we base our teachings from the bible. We don't make stuff up thru poor interpertation.

I'm not trying to discredit you. I'm simply pointing out that you don't really know what your talking about. But then when you call yourself pastor and I really didn't expect that you would.
But really at this point I'm done speaking on this subject. as you are going no where. and I'd rather not have this turn into an argument. I KNOW what I belive. I KNOW what I've been taught I KNOW what JW's belive in. You only know enought to get it all mixed up and twisted because you refuse to consider them for what they are TRUE Christians. Who LEAD christian lives.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Typical response? Yeah well you seem to know some about the group but alot of your info is flat out wrong.
> you have very little that your comming forward with that is actual truth.
> JESUS IS SALVATION! Get that. Are you hearing that that is one of our beliefs. Please don't sit there and try and explain to me what I've been taught since I was born. Because you are close but again alot of your info is off base.
> 
> ...


Okey Dokey...

But for the record, I was not using the King James version...sorry. I was using the NASB...the most accurate translation word for word. C'mon now Sunshine, you should have been able to tell that just from the word usage.

Funny thing is, you talk as one that is in the JW faith, and say I know nothing about what I am talking about...and you have, literally, no idea what my background is. Interesting.

Anyways, discussion dropped. I enjoyed the discussion Sunshine!


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

PastorJeff said:


> Typical response? Yeah well you seem to know some about the group but alot of your info is flat out wrong.
> you have very little that your comming forward with that is actual truth.
> JESUS IS SALVATION! Get that. Are you hearing that that is one of our beliefs. Please don't sit there and try and explain to me what I've been taught since I was born. Because you are close but again alot of your info is off base.
> 
> ...


Okey Dokey...

But for the record, I was not using the King James version...sorry. I was using the NASB...the most accurate translation word for word. C'mon now Sunshine, you should have been able to tell that just from the word usage.

Funny thing is, you talk as one that is in the JW faith, and say I know nothing about what I am talking about...and you have, literally, no idea what my background is. Interesting.

Anyways, discussion dropped. I enjoyed the discussion Sunshine!
[/quote]

When I say you have no idea. It is only because you were so inaccurate as to your dipiction of the JW faith. Now as to your own faith I do not doubt that you are well versed in what they have taught you. 
But as it pertains to what JW's are about. You were simply misinformed. thats the only point in all of this I was trying to make. Not debate the bible or anything else. Just correct the statement that JW's are not christian. That is a deep insult to me. because I know my christian belifs. this is something I do not question. because in my heart I know what christ has done for me.

This has been an intersting discussion. But yes, let us move on from it. We have lost sight of the point of this thread and it is obvious that we do not see things completely on the same level. But let us part knowing that we are both men that are strong in their faith and that ultimatley its our love of god and jesus that give us strenght to live our daily lives.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> But let us part knowing that we are both men that are strong in their faith and that ultimatley its our love of god and jesus that give us strenght to live our daily lives.


Without a doubt...well said.


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

Just a thought! But anyone who really likes religion and logic, and lol physics too should think about renting and watching the movie called, "What the BLEEP do we know?" Very good movie to get you thinking in different views


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

CROSSHAIR223 said:


> I've always wondered why there is a "HELL" for a plethora of reasons. However within the bible it points out one very interesting thing to me about hell. It says in the bible that GOD is endless love. Now being that he (we'll call him a he cause I don't like refering to him as an it) is full of endless love, means he is also full of endless forgiveness. So can anyone please answer me why there is a supposed hell if GOD is endless love and endless forgiveness?


which religion are you refering to? seventh day aventist(a form of christianity) belive hell is death. no eternal suffering, a loving god would not allow that.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

In all honesty logic doesn't and really CANT define everything. Seems like an oxymoron but it's true. Dont bring logic into religion, it's like bringing religion into science. Oh boy, I hope I didn't start something...


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

acestro said:


> In all honesty logic doesn't and really CANT define everything. Seems like an oxymoron but it's true. Dont bring logic into religion, it's like bringing religion into science. Oh boy, I hope I didn't start something...:laugh:


MUAHAHAHAH, you did! but I'm gonna leave it alone, until I get home and smoke


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)




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