# Protection Dogs



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

The only thing I still have a problem with is that his dog stood there and watched as "The dude advanced on him and he tosses his ass to the ground."

Even as unprotective as pits are... I'd still have thought that the dog would have done _something!_

I would think that if the OP really wants to prove that this happened, it shouldn't be too tough.
Most towns and cities post stuff like this on the local news online site.
Shouldn't be too tough to pull that story up.

But like Nick said... "Who really cares anyway?"


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

pit bulls make terrible guard dogs as far as protecting property if nobody's home due to the fact that they are usually very friendly towards people, but i have yet to find one that wasn't protective of their owner/family in a bad situation.

pits are actually known for being good for personal protection because they do a great job of of evaluating situations and have that "sixth sense" for recognizing trouble aimed at their owner. if someone breaks into a house when people are gone and their pit is loose in the house, usually a burglar could just act friendly towards the dog it would probably act friendly in return, but if the people were home and that same pit bull was loose, i would be very surprised if it didn't go nuts protecting the family.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

joedizzlempls said:


> pit bulls make terrible guard dogs as far as protecting property if nobody's home due to the fact that they are usually very friendly towards people, but i have yet to find one that wasn't protective of their owner/family in a bad situation.
> 
> pits are actually known for being good for personal protection because they do a great job of of evaluating situations and have that "sixth sense" for recognizing trouble aimed at their owner. if someone breaks into a house when people are gone and their pit is loose in the house, usually a burglar could just act friendly towards the dog it would probably act friendly in return, but if the people were home and that same pit bull was loose, i would be very surprised if it didn't go nuts protecting the family.


Interesting.
That has not been my experience with pits at all.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Man even a damn dalmation would protect you if you were getting attacked. It doesn't matter the breed, dogs are pack animals and protect there packs. The pitbulls piranha man must know probably don't consider there owners as apart of the pack.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

E-THUG said:


> Man even a damn dalmation would protect you if you were getting attacked. It doesn't matter the breed, dogs are pack animals and protect there packs. The pitbulls piranha man must know probably don't consider there owners as apart of the pack.


With all due respect, that's inaccurate E-THUG.
Most dogs will not protect their owner.

One of my dobermanns, for example... an 80 pound unneutered male, would run and hide under the kitchen table when people came over.

If you go into most people's house, sure, their dog will bark at you, but if you advance on him/her they will back off.
Trust me man... I've done protection work with dogs for years.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Man even a damn dalmation would protect you if you were getting attacked. It doesn't matter the breed, dogs are pack animals and protect there packs. The pitbulls piranha man must know probably don't consider there owners as apart of the pack.


With all due respect, that's inaccurate E-THUG.
Most dogs will not protect their owner.

One of my dobermanns, for example... an 80 pound unneutered male, would run and hide under the kitchen table when people came over.

*If you go into most people's house, sure, their dog will bark at you, but if you advance on him/her they will back off.*Trust me man... I've done protection work with dogs for years.
[/quote]

Funny you say that as well-
My old male pit(yet another small guy at 40#) would actually let them enter(friends) but not advance past walkway until I was their-If they did-they could expect to be bitten-

You need to spend more time with pits man-They are also a great protection breed along with many other's-Including your dobbies :nod:


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

^^ AK... and likewise... no disrespect intended toward you either...

It appears that your knowledge of dobies is limited, as it is with almost everybody other than those involved in the breed.
There are two basic types of dobermanns out there... the European bloodline ones and the American bloodline ones.
97% of the dobermanns you find in the US are of American lines.
These dogs have been wimped out for the showroom and almost completely lack the drive that their predecessors did.

The European line dogs, however, still retain (and even have an enhanced amount of) their protective instincts and prey drive.
You see, when dogs are chosen for protection work, it's predominately the "Prey drive" that's sought after and developed.

One of my 3 dobermanns is of this extreme European line and is a downright demon when it comes to her protection training.
I have posted several videos of her working on this site... I'm sure you've seen some.

I really don't mean to sound like a 'know-it-all' here, but seriously, I know what I'm talking about.
Protection training dogs has been a major hobby of mine for years.
To argue with me on this topic is like the average schmo arguing with you that the pacu they caught in the Amazon is a piranha.

You may have a great dog, and so may other people.
The fact of the matter is... most dogs are not protective, and fail when it comes to attacking an intruder when it comes right down to it.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> ^^ AK... and likewise... no disrespect intended toward you either...
> 
> It appears that your knowledge of dobies is limited, as it is with almost everybody other than those involved in the breed.
> There are two basic types of dobermanns out there... the European bloodline ones and the American bloodline ones.
> ...


No offense taken-
But you certainly dont know my knowledge on dobbies-You have no clue what my family has raised-I have never talked about them nor shown pics-But I can provide the backup.....









I'm not here to debate-I'm here to let you know my experience-Just as you have also-
Getting into a debate will be useless and result in a many page debate of "other" opinions-Not facts....So I see no point-

Your stuck on your "opinion" just like I am-Nothing wrong with that-But to flat out say I'm wrong or other's are ignorant on the subject is just plain silly---You know that as well as I do....

Carry on-
I refuse to resond again.
Have a great day....


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Well... you can say that I'm stating my "Opinion" if you like... but I'm stating fact.
Maybe I didn't make it clear... "I've worked in the protection dog training field for years."

If you don't believe what I say, that's fine.
Ask any professional protection dog trainer, you'll find they agree with what I said.
I'm not talking about your local obedience trainer... I mean a bona-fide protection dog trainer.

Anywho... I'm not here to argue anymore either.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Wont these protection trained dogs only attack people wearing sleeves?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> pit bulls make terrible guard dogs as far as protecting property if nobody's home due to the fact that they are usually very friendly towards people, but i have yet to find one that wasn't protective of their owner/family in a bad situation.
> 
> pits are actually known for being good for personal protection because they do a great job of of evaluating situations and have that "sixth sense" for recognizing trouble aimed at their owner. if someone breaks into a house when people are gone and their pit is loose in the house, usually a burglar could just act friendly towards the dog it would probably act friendly in return, but if the people were home and that same pit bull was loose, i would be very surprised if it didn't go nuts protecting the family.


Interesting.
That has not been my experience with pits at all.
[/quote]

neither mine. especially female pits, pits in general are very territorial. I've owned several in the past, I have friends that own plenty. Grew up with people that breed them, I know pits period, your not so much as yelling at an owner never the less wrestling with his owner or kicking at his door without that pit going ape sh*t on you. Bottom line no ifs, ands, buts about it. Dogs in general can't stand aggression around them, but a pit will pull your card lol.

Besides that, theirs not a cop or a judge in this world thats going to RoR a guy that just got done dry humping someones door to the point of bleeding all over it. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Obviously we don't have any real cops here so ask a local yocal tomorrow. Give him the situation and he'll tell you that guy would have gotten a one way ticket, no bail, don't pass go, nothing. And given the pictures he would have raked up enough charges that would gaurentee 2 to 4 especially with priors. I've got two relatives with a gold shields that work in nyc. I've got cops up the ass in my family, that go back to the serpico days in the 81st precinct. If the money was right I probably would have been one myself lol. Except I probably would have taken a run at IA to keep some of these c*ck suckers in line. And I've been around enough to know the difference between an attempted burglary and a personal dispute. This was a personal dispute..

You will not see a crack head coming lol this is not a crack heads MO and if you do catch a crackhead in the act, the last thing he wants is jail time or a pitbull chewing on his head lol. Besides that, your honestly going to tell me that a crackhead or a methhead was brought down to the station, tested positive, and released lol?? The more this guy posts the more I think his old lady locked him out and he himself dryhumped the door. The cops were probably called, he him self probably got "slammed cop style" or however he put it and she dropped the charges lol. So he comes here with a story, which I wouldn't have had a problem with until tackleberry and the rest of the knuckleheads started center massing the pillow case.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

I noticed quite a bit of discussion regarding this topic in the "home invasion" thread. There seem to be many opinions on which dogs do or do not protect. Personally, I believe that it's not just any dog that will protect a person. Like it was stated by p-man, high prey drive is key in what makes or breaks an effective guard dog. Much of these traits are bred out of the dogs in America because it's not a very welcome behavior and is hard to deal with in the average home. That's why the Jindo (a native Korean dog) has found its way to the pound far too many times.

There's also a reason as to why only certain dogs make it into the K-9 units in the police force. Sure, you can enter your doberman, lab, or pitbull into shutzhund courses but very few have what it takes to become a true guard/protection dog. Gameness is something that only the most well-bred dogs will have. You can get your golden retriever to attack someone on call, sure, but will he continue to attack after being punched and kicked in the face? Same thing goes for a hunting terrier. Yeah, a chihuahua will bark and attack small rodents. But will it pursue the rodent into the ground and continue to bay it while several feet underground to the point that you have to dig it out with a shovel? Not likely.

Well, that's my take on it anyway. Discuss here.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Hyphen, cool move IMO to start this thread... the other thread was getting crazy!

You stated it really well in your post.
Most dogs will bark when there is a confrontation with their owner.
Few will actually jump in and attack, and very very few will "Stick it out" when they're getting hit, kicked, etc.

This is the exact case with my dobermann male.
He's American bloodline and has very low prey drive.
Even after an entire year of protection training, he still is very weak at the protection work.

The female that I had flown in as a puppy (She cost me $2,500 by the way...) did 100 times better at the work at 10 months of age, her very first time in front of a decoy (Guy wearing bitesuit) with absolutely no training at all.
She has been bred for a hundred generations to kick ass at the work.
I guarantee that she would defend me to the death, no matter what the attacker did to her.

Here's a little video of her doing what we call "Civil work."
"Civil work" is where somebody pretends to be a threat without any protection gear on.
Obviously there is not a bite allowed... it's just to get the dog worked up.

(I hired Scott Baio to work the leash in this video...)


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Nice p-Man ever work with a belgian malinois?


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

E-THUG said:


> Nice p-Man ever work with a belgian malinois?


I have!
They're awesome.
For a medium sized dog... they kick ass.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

This is the kennel from which Farina (My dog in the video) came from.

http://www.nbizz.com/vonasgard/


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

Well since I have just bought a house I have been considering one of these.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

WTF is that?
look like that photo was tampered in PS.


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## jharrison (Dec 7, 2004)

No photoshoping there.... that's a neoplolitan Mastiff. I have heard that thay have a lot of skin problems, but I have no first hand experience. I will stick to my English mastiffs.


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## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

the neos you see in shows are crap! theyre ruining the breed with the exaggerated wrinkles. the original neo was created to have wrinkles on the neck area to aid in fighting not all over the body like some type of shar pei. theyre dupposed to be athletic and low to the ground for greater power and bursts of speed.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

hyphen said:


> There's also a reason as to why only certain dogs make it into the K-9 units in the police force. Sure, you can enter your doberman, lab, or pitbull into shutzhund courses but very few have what it takes to become a true guard/protection dog. Gameness is something that only the most well-bred dogs will have. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Discuss here.


I've actually taken two non-traditional dogs to Schutzhund Level II, though both were dogs with a breed history of gameness. My first was an 80 lb Boxer and the second was a 35lb Standard Schnauzer. Both dogs did very well in all three aspects of the training but the schnauzer was the ultimate in the protection portion of the training. The schnauzer could easily have gone on to Level III, he had a great spirit and tons of drive, I just couldn't stand the "OO-RAH" mentality of the rest of the people in the training.

My current dog is a German Wirehair Pointer, which would be considered low on the "protection" dog scale but he would never let anybody cause bodily harm to me, it's just a fact that if aggression happens around or to me he'll go after the other person.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> Hyphen, cool move IMO to start this thread... the other thread was getting crazy!
> 
> You stated it really well in your post.
> Most dogs will bark when there is a confrontation with their owner.
> ...


Hmm, I'm wondering with dogs in general, is gender a factor when it comes to certain traits. With my experience with pits, females were not only more loyal and willing to go the distance as you say, but over all the smarter gender. Most breeds that I've encountered period, I've always preferred and found females to be a lot smarter then males. This is also only based on personal experience which is why I'm curious.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

in my opinion, a well trained dog in a proper household will provide protection for their family, regardless of the situation and regardless of the breed. obviously there are some breeds that have a better natural instinct when it comes to protection, but every single dog that i have owned has been more than willing to throw down when they feel necessary.

i for one would never train a dog to attack because i just don't see a need to do so, all of my dogs are members of my family... they eat when i eat, they play outside with me and get plenty of exercise, they listen to what i say, and at the end of the day, they all pile into bed with my girl and i. it has been proven many times over that every single dog that i have owned has been willing to protect our household, even my girlfriends little min pin. i think it all comes down to how they are raised, too many dogs are babied to the point where they feel that they are the most important member of the household, when that happens, they obviously aren't going to be looking out for anyone else. in that respect, i will agree completely with piranha man in that most dogs are not very protective... most dog owners are not good dog owners and they end up raising dogs that run for cover when trouble arrives, which means they are looking out for themselves and only themselves.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Liquid said:


> Hyphen, cool move IMO to start this thread... the other thread was getting crazy!
> 
> You stated it really well in your post.
> Most dogs will bark when there is a confrontation with their owner.
> ...


Hmm, I'm wondering with dogs in general, is gender a factor when it comes to certain traits. With my experience with pits, females were not only more loyal and willing to go the distance as you say, but over all the smarter gender. Most breeds that I've encountered period, I've always preferred and found females to be a lot smarter then males. This is also only based on personal experience which is why I'm curious.

[/quote]

liquid, most dog trainers that i have talked to (pretty much all of them train hunting dogs) say that males are usually the better sex and i have experienced the same in other areas. while females are just as smart as males and tend to be a bit more friendly, most male dogs tend to be outright loyal to an alpha figure and have a higher prey drive, making them much more effective in certain areas. i'm not saying anything for sure, just going off of what i've been told and what i've experienced.

the way that i've always looked at it is that if i want to have a calm, pretty loyal dog that doesn't cause any trouble, i'd go pick up a female, but if i want a dog that will push itself to the limit to do the thing that it's supposed to do and be there for me in any situation, i'll choose a male.


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## JD7.62 (Apr 7, 2005)

Bawb2u said:


> There's also a reason as to why only certain dogs make it into the K-9 units in the police force. Sure, you can enter your doberman, lab, or pitbull into shutzhund courses but very few have what it takes to become a true guard/protection dog. Gameness is something that only the most well-bred dogs will have. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Discuss here.


I've actually taken two non-traditional dogs to Schutzhund Level II, though both were dogs with a breed history of gameness. My first was an 80 lb Boxer and the second was a 35lb Standard Schnauzer. Both dogs did very well in all three aspects of the training but the schnauzer was the ultimate in the protection portion of the training. The schnauzer could easily have gone on to Level III, he had a great spirit and tons of drive, I just couldn't stand the "OO-RAH" mentality of the rest of the people in the training.

My current dog is a German Wirehair Pointer, which would be considered low on the "protection" dog scale but he would never let anybody cause bodily harm to me, it's just a fact that if aggression happens around or to me he'll go after the other person.
[/quote]

My mom has two mini-shnauzers and they are really good dogs. Both are very protective. Neither will tear some one up if they just walked in (they sure as hell will bark) but if they think some one is doing harm to me, my mom, or my daughter they will throw down. Once I came to pick up my daughter and I snuck around behind her and jerked her up real quick to hug her and one of the dogs saw and thought I was hurting her and he came with full ankle biting fury until he realized it was me and I was jsut playing with her!

The other one may have saved my life, I cant say for sure though. Me and the dog were out hiking in the middle of the woods around my mom's property when out of no where a large male Rottie came up on us not too happy. I picked up a rock cause I had nothing else on me and thought I was about to battle this thing. The dog first came up to my dog and then turned to me and as soon as he did that little mini who weighs about 20 pounds went after that 120+ pound rott like a spider monkey. That rott took off with his tail between his legs and my dog chased him about 15 yards then stopped but the rott kept on running until he was out of sight! haha

During the walk back I was shaken like a leaf still but that little dog had his head held high and an extra bounce in his step the whole way. You could visibly see he knew what he had just done and he was so proud of himself. Luckily that rott didnt realize or have the intention on causing us harm or else we both would have been in trouble!

Sadly my mom had to put one down due to the Vet farking up an anal gland removal.









My wife and I are looking to buy a dog in the next year or so. We arent sure what we want yet. The thing I love about the schnauzers is that they are hypo allergenic and dont have much dander and dont shed. I HATE going to people's home with cat or dog hair everywhere. Its freaking disgusting.

Any good suggestions? Something under 60-70pounds, clean for indoors, protective is a plus but we have a daughter who will have friends over so that needs to be taken into consideration.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.

Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"

9 times outta 10 all you'll see is that dog's ass running the other direction.
(I'm talkin' with the door open... not through a glass door where the dog knows it's safe.)


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## JAC (Jan 19, 2004)

Miniature Schnauzers are great dogs, tons of personality and character, I've had two and both were very protective of us and would not hesitate to go up against much larger dogs, which could get them in over their head, you must be careful with that.

The one we have now is a female, weighs like 12lbs but she has no problem going up against my 60+ bulldog, she is EXTREMELY dominant which is a problemb ecause she will sometimes challenge our authority; she was raised by my sister and she was as spoiled a dog as you can find, we are currently in the process of training her so that she learns her place in the house.

In my experience they have very strong personalities and tend to be dominant if you let them, you have to make it very clear to them that you are the alpha.

I see them as a large dog in a small package, you get the character, disposition and braveness commonly associated with larger dogs but also the convenience of having a small dog that you can take with you everywhere, doesn't shed and is easy to handle. Highly recomended but be very consistent and firm with the training since day one, also, they tend to be barkers, which can be very annoying.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2009)

LMAO I love how everyone is an expert! I'm not saying some of you don't have a bit of an idea but definitely the other half is talking out their ass.

I agree that a lot of the dogs in the AKC and CKC have been ruined and are not being bred to breed standard and I'm not talking the AKC/CKC breed standard either but the FCI standard. Most of the working breeds originated from Europe and still have that TRUE working drive. Unfortunately that natural drive/instinct has been bred out of most of the dogs you see throughout North America. I am not saying all dogs have lost drive but a lot of them have. With some good training you can tap back into that instinct, with others it just comes naturally.

I myself breed true to standard EUROPEAN dogs that I import from EUROPE. They have long lines of Atibox/Schutzhund champions.

Piranha_man*** You got a great deal on your puppy. $2500 is minimal for a European lined dog but was she actually imported from Europe or American bred from Euro lined parents? My male is from a top Boxer kennel he cost me 4X that amount to purchase and ship him over. My females the same.










P


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

ksls said:


> LMAO I love how everyone is an expert! I'm not saying some of you don't have a bit of an idea but definitely the other half is talking out their ass.
> 
> I agree that a lot of the dogs in the AKC and CKC have been ruined and are not being bred to breed standard and I'm not talking the AKC/CKC breed standard either but the FCI standard. Most of the working breeds originated from Europe and still have that TRUE working drive. Unfortunately that natural drive/instinct has been bred out of most of the dogs you see throughout North America. I am not saying all dogs have lost drive but a lot of them have. With some good training you can tap back into that instinct, with others it just comes naturally.
> 
> ...


The kennel at which she was welped is run by a woman who has spent 30 years working with her european line dobermanns.
She has ties in Germany and one other country (Can't remember off the top of my head) for bringing in new blood.
She's considered legend in the protection/schutzhund dobermann ring worldwide.

Here's her site-- http://www.nbizz.com/vonasgard/


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## swack (May 29, 2007)

i'd always love to have a dog such as this however the big thing is home owners insurance...good luck with most of these breeds


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

swack said:


> i'd always love to have a dog such as this however the big thing is home owners insurance...good luck with most of these breeds


You're right... it has been a hassle!
Fortunately, there was one good quality insurance group willing to work with me if I signed a waiver.
(I don't see why they don't all just let the homeowner sign a waiver...)


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.
> 
> Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"
> 
> ...


lol that might be the worst advice i've read on here in a long time.

the other 1 out of 10 the dog is going to attack you and eat your face


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## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

ksls said:


> LMAO I love how everyone is an expert! I'm not saying some of you don't have a bit of an idea but definitely the other half is talking out their ass.
> 
> I agree that a lot of the dogs in the AKC and CKC have been ruined and are not being bred to breed standard and I'm not talking the AKC/CKC breed standard either but the FCI standard. Most of the working breeds originated from Europe and still have that TRUE working drive. Unfortunately that natural drive/instinct has been bred out of most of the dogs you see throughout North America. I am not saying all dogs have lost drive but a lot of them have. With some good training you can tap back into that instinct, with others it just comes naturally.
> 
> ...


Welcome to our little board most here can solve a crime with just picures, train a protection dog, raise huge piranhas, and many more challenging things. We are experts, fear us.









Most of us are extremely wealthy as well.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Yeah...Im not too sure thats a good idea with all dogs..haha..what if that 1 dog does what Boobah said..haha...not a good idea.

KSLS...The dog breeds have all been breed to be bigger and "Badder" for the most part.
Its rare to see the true "Standard" dogs anymore..
For example my wives parents boxer was over 100lbs and the same with the current one.
He looks like the F'in Gargoyle from Ghost Busters!
Look at what ppl call APBT.
They aren't pits....they are moslty bully type dogs bred to be bigger and bigger.


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## JD7.62 (Apr 7, 2005)

JAC said:


> Miniature Schnauzers are great dogs, tons of personality and character, I've had two and both were very protective of us and would not hesitate to go up against much larger dogs, which could get them in over their head, you must be careful with that.
> 
> The one we have now is a female, weighs like 12lbs but she has no problem going up against my 60+ bulldog, she is EXTREMELY dominant which is a problemb ecause she will sometimes challenge our authority; she was raised by my sister and she was as spoiled a dog as you can find, we are currently in the process of training her so that she learns her place in the house.
> 
> ...


Do you have any experience with giant schnauzers? Ive seen a couple and they were beautiful dogs. The owner of one told me that his acts just like his two minis. A giant would be a good option for us cause we dont really want a small dog and because schnauzers dont shed, a giant kept indoors wouldnt be that bad!


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## 94NDTA (Jul 14, 2003)

Bawb2u said:


> There's also a reason as to why only certain dogs make it into the K-9 units in the police force. Sure, you can enter your doberman, lab, or pitbull into shutzhund courses but very few have what it takes to become a true guard/protection dog. Gameness is something that only the most well-bred dogs will have. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Discuss here.


I've actually taken two non-traditional dogs to Schutzhund Level II, though both were dogs with a breed history of gameness. My first was an 80 lb Boxer and the second was a 35lb Standard Schnauzer. Both dogs did very well in all three aspects of the training but the schnauzer was the ultimate in the protection portion of the training. The schnauzer could easily have gone on to Level III, he had a great spirit and tons of drive, I just couldn't stand the "OO-RAH" mentality of the rest of the people in the training.

My current dog is a German Wirehair Pointer, which would be considered low on the "protection" dog scale but he would never let anybody cause bodily harm to me, it's just a fact that if aggression happens around or to me he'll go after the other person.
[/quote]
GWP's supposedly make great gaurd dogs as far as hunting breeds go. I've been researching them a bit, looking to try a new hunting dog.

The most protective dog I've ever seen was a 50 lb field bread english setter. You could not go near my father or I without haveing him trying to protect him, and I am not talking barking. My friends use to just call him satan. Great hunting dog though.


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

ksls said:


> LMAO I love how everyone is an expert!


Welcome to the internet.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

armac said:


> LMAO I love how everyone is an expert! I'm not saying some of you don't have a bit of an idea but definitely the other half is talking out their ass.
> 
> I agree that a lot of the dogs in the AKC and CKC have been ruined and are not being bred to breed standard and I'm not talking the AKC/CKC breed standard either but the FCI standard. Most of the working breeds originated from Europe and still have that TRUE working drive. Unfortunately that natural drive/instinct has been bred out of most of the dogs you see throughout North America. I am not saying all dogs have lost drive but a lot of them have. With some good training you can tap back into that instinct, with others it just comes naturally.
> 
> ...


Welcome to our little board most here can solve a crime with just picures, train a protection dog, raise huge piranhas, and many more challenging things. We are experts, fear us.









Most of us are extremely wealthy as well.
[/quote]

That's about the only intelligent thing I've ever seen you post.
You're exactly right, there are some interesting and amazing members here.
Many of us are capable of achieving incredible things.

There is one among us, however, that has never in their entire time of membership here ever posted anything of any value.
Never posted any advice whatsoever in the piranha forums, and has made a "Career" out of making an ass of themself in the lounge.

I feel sorry for you little man, now go play with your little guns and knives.


----------



## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

JD7.62 said:


> Do you have any experience with giant schnauzers? Ive seen a couple and they were beautiful dogs. The owner of one told me that his acts just like his two minis. A giant would be a good option for us cause we dont really want a small dog and because schnauzers dont shed, a giant kept indoors wouldnt be that bad!


Just be aware that any of the schnauzers, giant, standard or mini's need A LOT of grooming. The coats tend to mat and hold water, so grooming virtually every day is mandatory. I've known a couple of giants and they are cool dogs. More mellow than mini's or standards but still energetic and smart. They are pretty willful, so consistant training is needed but not too harsh, they don't respond well to heavy hands. My personal favorite of the three is the standard schnauzer. They are a smallish to medium dog but they have huge heart and a terrier attitude. I prefer the black coat.


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Boobah said:


> For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.
> 
> Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"
> 
> ...


lol that might be the worst advice i've read on here in a long time.

the other 1 out of 10 the dog is going to attack you and eat your face
[/quote]

"The worst advice you've heard on here for a long time?"
Interesting.
I guess I just assumed that anybody doing this would have one hand on the doorknob and not actually step all the way inside the house.
I forgot not everybody here is exactly "Intelligent."


----------



## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

ksls said:


> I agree that a lot of the dogs in the AKC and CKC have been ruined and are not being bred to breed standard and I'm not talking the AKC/CKC breed standard either but the FCI standard. Most of the working breeds originated from Europe and still have that TRUE working drive. Unfortunately that natural drive/instinct has been bred out of most of the dogs you see throughout North America. I am not saying all dogs have lost drive but a lot of them have. With some good training you can tap back into that instinct, with others it just comes naturally.
> 
> I myself breed true to standard EUROPEAN dogs that I import from EUROPE. They have long lines of Atibox/Schutzhund champions.
> 
> ...


Nice head on that dog! If possible please post some more pictures of your dogs, it's nice to see boxers that look like the breed should. I'm constantly saddened when I watch dog shows on TV, especially the boxers. The little fine boned, apple headed bitches and thin chested males that are prevelant in the shows are just silly looking.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

94NDTA said:


> There's also a reason as to why only certain dogs make it into the K-9 units in the police force. Sure, you can enter your doberman, lab, or pitbull into shutzhund courses but very few have what it takes to become a true guard/protection dog. Gameness is something that only the most well-bred dogs will have. Well, that's my take on it anyway. Discuss here.


I've actually taken two non-traditional dogs to Schutzhund Level II, though both were dogs with a breed history of gameness. My first was an 80 lb Boxer and the second was a 35lb Standard Schnauzer. Both dogs did very well in all three aspects of the training but the schnauzer was the ultimate in the protection portion of the training. The schnauzer could easily have gone on to Level III, he had a great spirit and tons of drive, I just couldn't stand the "OO-RAH" mentality of the rest of the people in the training.

My current dog is a German Wirehair Pointer, which would be considered low on the "protection" dog scale but he would never let anybody cause bodily harm to me, it's just a fact that if aggression happens around or to me he'll go after the other person.
[/quote]
GWP's supposedly make great gaurd dogs as far as hunting breeds go. I've been researching them a bit, looking to try a new hunting dog.

The most protective dog I've ever seen was a 50 lb field bread english setter. You could not go near my father or I without haveing him trying to protect him, and I am not talking barking. My friends use to just call him satan. Great hunting dog though.
[/quote]
are you lookin for a waterfowl or upland dog?


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

_____________________________________-

To be entirely honest here, I really am amazed at how whenever this topic comes up on here, it goes into such arguement.

When it comes to this topic, you are one of two.

1.) A person who has worked with protection/schutzhund dogs extensively, as a decoy and as a handler.

2.) A person who has never worked with protection/schutzhund dogs, has never put on a bitesuit or sleeve, and has never handled a protection/schutzhund dog.

Why is it so difficult for some people to understand in which category they are?
Do some people honestly believe that although they have never worked with these dogs, or have done so to a very limited degree... that they know what the f*ck they're talking about?

This arguementative bullshit is ridiculous.
The only reason for it's existence that I can think of is that some people out there have regular dogs, and want to believe that their 'furry little buddy' would stick up for them.
Guess what.
Truth is, they probably wouldn't, and even if they did, they'd turn tail and hide at the first sign of aggression back toward them.

It's the way it is... sorry to burst your little bubble about "Rufus."


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.
> 
> Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"
> 
> ...


lol that might be the worst advice i've read on here in a long time.

the other 1 out of 10 the dog is going to attack you and eat your face
[/quote]

"The worst advice you've heard on here for a long time?"
Interesting.
I guess I just assumed that anybody doing this would have one hand on the doorknob and not actually step all the way inside the house.
I forgot not everybody here is exactly "Intelligent."
[/quote]








ok ninja the dog whisperer. yes, you actually told people they should belligerently confront an aggressive dog to see what happens. that's dumb


----------



## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

I refuse to respond........................


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

[


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Whatever loser.


well damn i guess if we're just going to go ahead and jump to insults

umm... your mama?


----------



## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

Boobah said:


> Whatever loser.


well damn i guess if we're just going to go ahead and jump to insults

umm... your mama?
[/quote]

Just "refuse to respond" that always throws him off :nod:


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Lets keep the insults out of things here-

I wont tolerate it.

Thanks


----------



## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

im not a dog trainer by any means, but ive had big dogs ever since i could remember.
the best dog to this day was my dads german shepherd he came from european lines and would die in a heartbeat for my family. these american bred dogs are so watered down because the breeders are only concerned about looks and size, with the mentality that bigger is always better. whats the point of having a huge 140 pound pit if he cant even catch the bad guy in the first place.
bottom line is that some dogs just arent capable of being good protection dogs no matter how much training they have. a good pp work dog should be a natural and show signs at a young age. 
this is a good example


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Yeah, I deleted my insult.

Man, f*ck it.
Afterall, it was a New Year's resolution of mine to have more patience with people.
Including (and perhaps especially) ignorant people who absolutely insist that they know what they're talking about when they really don't.

So ya know... okay dudes, your little Fidos and Fluffies... your labs, pits, dalmations... they're all badass and would lay down their lives for you. Okay?

Now if you'll Xcuse me... I gotta get back to training my dobermanns...


----------



## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

as ak said, lets keep the insults and attacks out of here. i started this thread for discussion.


----------



## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

I have a Dane puppy and she is pretty protective already. She lunged at my mother-in-law with a loud snarl...

We we in the backyard with the pup about to take her for a walk (with leash on) and the MIL hears us and goes straight to the backyard using the side gate.
I just held the leash and she pulled hard.


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

meh, my german shorthaired pointer is a companion/hunting dog. he barks if someone messes with or opens the door, so that gives me enough time to wake up, get the shotgun and shoot said perpetrator.

he'd lick you to death and help you carry out every last piece of my belongings though.


----------



## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Haha, I can't believe you made a whole new thread specifically about his dog still.









I have a Weimaraner and she's very protective, but that also runs in the breed. They use them as police dogs in England and Germany, actually. She didn't show it until she was about 5-6 months old, but if someone were to mess with me she would tear them apart. Especially because when you say "Get it!" in an enthusiastic voice she goes into major killing mode trying to find whatever it is (we have rabbits, squirrels, raccoons, opossums, etc. in our forest). She's already claimed the lives of about 5 *****, which isn't that many, but keep in mind we don't hunt them, they are just random ones we've come across.

She just turned 2 years old yesterday!

...and for the record my older brother went through a phase and got a pitbull years ago when I was young. It was one of the most lovable and friendly dogs we've had...just like a lab, although I personally despise labs. She didn't have even a hint of aggression in her.

Oh, I also forgot to mention she killed 2 bats for us early this morning. They were squeaking in the basement, but their pitch is odd and we couldn't locate them. Her ears perked up, we said "Get it!" and they were toast about 1-2 minutes after she located them on the floor in our fruit room. (She's had all of her rabies shots and everything - even though she wasn't bitten.)


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Yeah, I deleted my insult.
> 
> Man, f*ck it.
> Afterall, it was a New Year's resolution of mine to have more patience with people.
> ...


Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

Every post you make,everyone can clearly see it's either your view or no view-All other people are ignorant to you-There is no reasoning and this thread and Dog talk clearly shows it-


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2009)

RIGOR

I think you have protection and aggression mixed up. A dog properly trained in protection should never lounge at another person unless the command is given. They should however stand their ground.

I would address this situation asap and get her into some socialization and basic OB classes.


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2009)

Bawb2u said:


> I agree that a lot of the dogs in the AKC and CKC have been ruined and are not being bred to breed standard and I'm not talking the AKC/CKC breed standard either but the FCI standard. Most of the working breeds originated from Europe and still have that TRUE working drive. Unfortunately that natural drive/instinct has been bred out of most of the dogs you see throughout North America. I am not saying all dogs have lost drive but a lot of them have. With some good training you can tap back into that instinct, with others it just comes naturally.
> 
> I myself breed true to standard EUROPEAN dogs that I import from EUROPE. They have long lines of Atibox/Schutzhund champions.
> 
> ...


Nice head on that dog! If possible please post some more pictures of your dogs, it's nice to see boxers that look like the breed should. I'm constantly saddened when I watch dog shows on TV, especially the boxers. The little fine boned, apple headed bitches and thin chested males that are prevelant in the shows are just silly looking.
[/quote]

My homebred Italian/German female She's a year and has a lot of filling out to do.










Another of my male stacked as a 2 yr old.










This past summer










My German Import Female not the best pic but the only one i can find. lol @ 18mths


----------



## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

^^^ youre male is the ideal boxer as far as looks go imo, hows his temperment?


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

My male is my foundation. He has the looks/temperment that I wish to achieve with my lines. He is quiet,and fairly calm for a boxer. I would trust him with a child of any age and when my niece and nefew come over he will place himself between them and the road, especially if someone else is walking past. He is on constant lookout and listens very well.

My 1 yr old female has a lot of filling out to do. Her head will broaden and needs to catch up to the width of her chest. She is in her awkward teenage stage and is sitting at 70lbs. I look forward to seeing her fully matured


----------



## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

ksls said:


> RIGOR
> 
> I think you have protection and aggression mixed up. A dog properly trained in protection should never lounge at another person unless the command is given. They should however stand their ground.
> 
> I would address this situation asap and get her into some socialization and basic OB classes.


You're exactly right!

She had never been around other people before that instance and acted strangely in front of my MIL. But after introducing her to the neighborhood kids and family, she is much better with that.
I dont know if she would have attacked, but she was intent. My MIL says that she was excited to meet someone else... but I just dont know.

So far, she has been doing well with other dogs...etc.
Obviously, now that she has her parvo shots, she can be around other dogs and socializes well...


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> Yeah, I deleted my insult.
> 
> Man, f*ck it.
> Afterall, it was a New Year's resolution of mine to have more patience with people.
> ...


Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

Every post you make,everyone can clearly see it's either your view or no view-All other people are ignorant to you-There is no reasoning and this thread and Dog talk clearly shows it-
[/quote]

AK.
It's ridiculous that the arguement has gone on this long... too bad we can't all just discuss our dogs here.

You honestly claiming that I am ignorant about protection dog training?
I wasn't aware of your credentials on the subject.
Please, do tell how many times you've been decoy, how many times you've trained dogs for protection work.
What have you done, full on protection work? Schutzhund? French Ring?

I guess I wasn't aware just how educated on the topic some people in this thread really are then!
Guess I should take a step back and ask YOU some questions about it, since you know so much more.

Please, tell me about some of YOUR experiences in protection dog training.
Meanwhile, here's a couple little videos I shot this afternoon of my European line dobermann at work.
(26", 65 pound 2 year old female.)

Here's a view from my (Handler's) angle...






And here's a view from the decoy's angle.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Yeah, I deleted my insult.
> 
> Man, f*ck it.
> Afterall, it was a New Year's resolution of mine to have more patience with people.
> ...


Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

Every post you make,everyone can clearly see it's either your view or no view-All other people are ignorant to you-There is no reasoning and this thread and Dog talk clearly shows it-
[/quote]

AK.
It's ridiculous that the arguement has gone on this long... too bad we can't all just discuss our dogs here.

You honestly claiming that I am ignorant about protection dog training?
I wasn't aware of your credentials on the subject.
Please, do tell how many times you've been decoy, how many times you've trained dogs for protection work.
What have you done, full on protection work? Schutzhund? French Ring?

I guess I wasn't aware just how educated on the topic some people in this thread really are then!
Guess I should take a step back and ask YOU some questions about it, since you know so much more.

Please, tell me about some of YOUR experiences in protection dog training.
Meanwhile, here's a couple little videos I shot this afternoon of my European line dobermann at work.
(26", 65 pound 2 year old female.)

Here's a view from my (Handler's) angle...






And here's a view from the decoy's angle.





[/quote]

I never said you were ignorant to this subject-
Here is what you said-
Including (and perhaps especially) ignorant people who absolutely insist that they know what they're talking about when they really don't.

Here is what I said-
Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

I see nothing to due with training in that statement.

It is a shame we can not discuss "our" dogs-It's all about the dobbie in your eyes(not that,that is a bad thing)....You just refuse or dont see the benefits and strong points of other breeds....Maybe I am wrong-But it certainly looks that way by your posts man.....Maybe you dont notice it-But other's due....

I dont need to back up my mouth-I have never talked about what I have done or accomplished.Thats not the kind of person I am.....I am not the one trying to make a point about a certain breed-I look at all aspects when considering breeds.

Once again this isn't about me-
You want to ? me on my credentials-wait until I make a post where one can ? them then...This isn't the time nor the place....

Anyhow-Like previous vids-Nice one....Just not my cup of tea.


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> Yeah, I deleted my insult.
> 
> Man, f*ck it.
> Afterall, it was a New Year's resolution of mine to have more patience with people.
> ...


Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

Every post you make,everyone can clearly see it's either your view or no view-All other people are ignorant to you-There is no reasoning and this thread and Dog talk clearly shows it-
[/quote]

AK.
It's ridiculous that the arguement has gone on this long... too bad we can't all just discuss our dogs here.

You honestly claiming that I am ignorant about protection dog training?
I wasn't aware of your credentials on the subject.
Please, do tell how many times you've been decoy, how many times you've trained dogs for protection work.
What have you done, full on protection work? Schutzhund? French Ring?

I guess I wasn't aware just how educated on the topic some people in this thread really are then!
Guess I should take a step back and ask YOU some questions about it, since you know so much more.

Please, tell me about some of YOUR experiences in protection dog training.
Meanwhile, here's a couple little videos I shot this afternoon of my European line dobermann at work.
(26", 65 pound 2 year old female.)

Here's a view from my (Handler's) angle...






And here's a view from the decoy's angle.





[/quote]

I never said you were ignorant to this subject-
Here is what you said-
Including (and perhaps especially) ignorant people who absolutely insist that they know what they're talking about when they really don't.

Here is what I said-
Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

I see nothing to due with training in that statement.

It is a shame we can not discuss "our" dogs-It's all about the dobbie in your eyes(not that,that is a bad thing)....You just refuse or dont see the benefits and strong points of other breeds....Maybe I am wrong-But it certainly looks that way by your posts man.....Maybe you dont notice it-But other's due....

I dont need to back up my mouth-I have never talked about what I have done or accomplished.Thats not the kind of person I am.....I am not the one trying to make a point about a certain breed-I look at all aspects when considering breeds.

Once again this isn't about me-
You want to ? me on my credentials-wait until I make a post where one can ? them then...This isn't the time nor the place....

*Anyhow-Like previous vids-Nice one....Just not my cup of tea.*
[/quote]

If protection dogs aren't your "Cup of tea..." then seriously, why are you posting in this thread?

As for me claiming that dobies are the only decent protection dog... wrong again Mr. Alaska...
For example, I specifically pointed out that I have worked with Malinois, and that they are awesome at the work.
Furthermore, I mentioned that German Shephards are great at the work.

And yes, I did say that most dogs will chicken out when the going gets tough.
So will most people... so what's the big deal?
Not everybody likes doing protection work... they love their dogs for being the family friends that they are... and I think that's great.
I used to have a husky/shephard mix that was the biggest chickenshit in the world... and I LOVED him!
I can't walk past a miniature schnauzer without loving it up with pats and kisses.

Anywho... enough of the crap... let's just discuss our dogs in peace.

Everybody who's shown pics of their dogs so far have great looking dogs IMO.

But seriously, since the name you have to this thread is "Protection dogs..." does anybody else on here have any?
If so... let's see some vids!


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Yeah, I deleted my insult.
> 
> Man, f*ck it.
> Afterall, it was a New Year's resolution of mine to have more patience with people.
> ...


Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

Every post you make,everyone can clearly see it's either your view or no view-All other people are ignorant to you-There is no reasoning and this thread and Dog talk clearly shows it-
[/quote]

AK.
It's ridiculous that the arguement has gone on this long... too bad we can't all just discuss our dogs here.

You honestly claiming that I am ignorant about protection dog training?
I wasn't aware of your credentials on the subject.
Please, do tell how many times you've been decoy, how many times you've trained dogs for protection work.
What have you done, full on protection work? Schutzhund? French Ring?

I guess I wasn't aware just how educated on the topic some people in this thread really are then!
Guess I should take a step back and ask YOU some questions about it, since you know so much more.

Please, tell me about some of YOUR experiences in protection dog training.
Meanwhile, here's a couple little videos I shot this afternoon of my European line dobermann at work.
(26", 65 pound 2 year old female.)

Here's a view from my (Handler's) angle...






And here's a view from the decoy's angle.





[/quote]

I never said you were ignorant to this subject-
Here is what you said-
Including (and perhaps especially) ignorant people who absolutely insist that they know what they're talking about when they really don't.

Here is what I said-
Seriously don't think you don't also fall into that catagory man..

I see nothing to due with training in that statement.

It is a shame we can not discuss "our" dogs-It's all about the dobbie in your eyes(not that,that is a bad thing)....You just refuse or dont see the benefits and strong points of other breeds....Maybe I am wrong-But it certainly looks that way by your posts man.....Maybe you dont notice it-But other's due....

I dont need to back up my mouth-I have never talked about what I have done or accomplished.Thats not the kind of person I am.....I am not the one trying to make a point about a certain breed-I look at all aspects when considering breeds.

Once again this isn't about me-
You want to ? me on my credentials-wait until I make a post where one can ? them then...This isn't the time nor the place....

*Anyhow-Like previous vids-Nice one....Just not my cup of tea.*
[/quote]

*If protection dogs aren't your "Cup of tea..." then seriously, why are you posting in this thread*?

As for me claiming that dobies are the only decent protection dog... wrong again Mr. Alaska...
For example, I specifically pointed out that I have worked with Malinois, and that they are awesome at the work.
Furthermore, I mentioned that German Shephards are great at the work.

And yes, I did say that most dogs will chicken out when the going gets tough.
So will most people... so what's the big deal?
Not everybody likes doing protection work... they love their dogs for being the family friends that they are... and I think that's great.
I used to have a husky/shephard mix that was the biggest chickenshit in the world... and I LOVED him!
I can't walk past a miniature schnauzer without loving it up with pats and kisses.

Anywho... enough of the crap... let's just discuss our dogs in peace.

Everybody who's shown pics of their dogs so far have great looking dogs IMO.

But seriously, since the name you have to this thread is "Protection dogs..." does anybody else on here have any?
If so... let's see some vids!








[/quote]

Your vids are not my cup of tea-Not the topic.....You sure are quick at judgement-
Just goes to further my point man....

Your right also-You have mentioned about other breeds-Just when other people do-It turns out to be a disscussion about the mighty dobbie once again...

Anyhow-Want to actually talk more-Pm me.

Later


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

^^ Nah, that's okay. I don't see the need.
For some reason you aren't hearing me when I'm speaking highly of breeds other than dobies.
Are dobies my favorite? Of course. That's why I have them. Is that difficult to understand?

Anyway, you created this thread about protection dogs.
_So far I haven't seen anybody else post anything that's really about protection dogs._
I've seen some nice pictures of some great looking dogs... but again... nothing about protection dogs!

AK... you started this thread, and you put my name behind it.
Why don't you either start your own thread about protection dogs (Under your name... and then _not talk about protection dogs...) _or let's start talking about protection dogs here.
(It's like starting a thread on _piranhas_ and then discussing _angelfish_...)

Also, if I have stated _anything_ in error about protection dog training, _please_ bring that to my attention so that we can arrive at the truth.
I don't claim to be the world's expert on the topic... but I do have extensive experience behind it. I'm always willing to learn more, so teach me please.


----------



## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

Do not forget about your New's Years resolution Pman.

You can be the bigger man......................


----------



## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

Piranha_man said:


> ^^ Nah, that's okay. I don't see the need.
> For some reason you aren't hearing me when I'm speaking highly of breeds other than dobies.
> Are dobies my favorite? Of course. That's why I have them. Is that difficult to understand?
> 
> ...


hyphen made it .... p man lay off the absinth


----------



## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

it was actually me that started this topic. i moved the dog related posts from the other thread and placed them in here, just to clear up any confusion. the forum software by default places the posts in chronological order.


----------



## fishguy1313 (Feb 19, 2007)

Piranha_Man - I have never seen any vid or topic you posted with anything other than those dobermans you got recently. You might have had them awhile, but that doesn't make you a professional dog trainer. Let's see vid of other said dogs. I don't think wearing a decoy outfit makes anyone a great trainer either. I can't believe how poorly you argue sometimes. You are never wrong. You get defensive and start slamming people pretty quick too. I consider this weakness.


----------



## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> ^^ Nah, that's okay. I don't see the need.
> For some reason you aren't hearing me when I'm speaking highly of breeds other than dobies.
> Are dobies my favorite? Of course. That's why I have them. Is that difficult to understand?
> 
> ...


Get your facts straight like usual before you call me out man-

I did not make this thread-I did not put your name behind it-

Anything else? while your quick to judge their guy..........

Further proves my point yet.


----------



## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Jesus Christ man.
Amazing.

Not quite sure what I've done so wrong here.
Yes, I talk about my dobies when it comes to talking about protection dogs.
Yes, I've had quite a bit of experience on the subject... hundreds of hours spent being decoy, handler, training, researching...
And I've shared my experiences here on the topic.
And yes, most of my experiences has been with dobermanns.

Seems like all some of you guys want to do is tell me how little I know.
Or how wrong I am about my facts.
Or that I'm a know-it-all.

Tell y'all what... Fishguy... AK... Boobah... none of you guys have posted a single thing that has been relative to the topic of "Protection dogs."
On the contrary, all you three have really done is found fault with me.

If you guys wanna talk about protection dogs in this thread, then that would really be great.
If this is a thread merely to knock me down a few pegs... then wow... go for it I guess.

"You're right... you all know more about protection dog training than I do."
"I'm nothing but a blowhard, arrogant asshole who talks about stuff he doesn't have experience in."
I don't respect anybody but myself."

Is that what you guys need to hear to make yourselves feel better about yourselves?
Funny... when ya get right down to it, I'm the only one in this thread who has any training and experience in protection dog training.
All I've tried to do is turn the subject in this thread toward it's topic... "Protection dog training."
All you guys have done is slam me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Seriously.
What are you guys doing in this thread?
If you just wanna jump on my ass... why don't ya start a "Let's jump on P-man's ass" thread or something.

Otherwise... anybody care to discuss protection dogs?


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## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

Victim


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

fishguy1313 said:


> Piranha_Man - I have never seen any vid or topic you posted with anything other than those dobermans you got recently. You might have had them awhile, but that doesn't make you a professional dog trainer. Let's see vid of other said dogs. I don't think wearing a decoy outfit makes anyone a great trainer either. I can't believe how poorly you argue sometimes. You are never wrong. You get defensive and start slamming people pretty quick too. I consider this weakness.


First, you contradict yourself in the first two sentences.
"These dobermans you got recently." and "You might have had them awhile."

Second, it doesn't make me a professional dog trainer... you're right.
However, the fact that I have spent hundreds of hours training dogs both on an amateur as well as professional level... that does make me very experienced.

Third, as for "Vid of other said dogs..." I have posted several over the last couple of years of several dogs. The best working dog I have is Farina, so of course I'm gonna post vids of her in this thread.

Fourthly, "Wearing a decoy 'outfit' does not make anybody a good trainer." Again, you're right. But consider this. I've worn one countless times. How many times have you? So yes, I'd say I blow you away in experience on it.

Fifthly, "How poorly I argue sometimes..." and "I'm never wrong..." I appreciate that, but I disagree... I'm wrong alot. Please point out where I am wrong in the statements I've made in this thread. Please.

And lastly... "I get defensive and slam people quickly..." I agree. Weakness? Again, I agree. My aggressiveness is to a fault. I'll admit that freely. I guess a guy raises pygos and dobermanns for a reason. Damn right I'm aggressive. I'm aggressive in all aspects of life, including business... and I'm damn glad I am.

Is there anything else... Fishguy?

____________________________________

p.s. Is this thread seriously just a "Let's jump on P-man's ass" or does anybody wanna discuss protection dogs?
I keep asking this... and I don't get an answer.
Nor do I see any posts about dogs anymore.
Just posts slammin' ol' P-man.

Go for it if that's what gets ya off I guess.


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)

Wow, P-man. From what I've read, throughout this whole thread, whenever anyone contradicts your beliefs you end up telling them that you have years of experience and that they know nothing. Its funny how everyone puts in their 2 cents on the topic and you just shut them down. Maybe all this Absinth has gone to your head...


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

gvrayman said:


> Wow, P-man. From what I've read, throughout this whole thread, whenever anyone contradicts your beliefs you end up telling them that you have years of experience and that they know nothing. Its funny how everyone puts in their 2 cents on the topic and you just shut them down. Maybe all this Absinth has gone to your head...


Ya know what dude?
Go jump on the bandwagon.

Do you have experience in protection dog training?
Does fishguy?
Does AK?
Does boobah?

I mean really!
And yes I'm gonna back myself up with my years of experience on the topic... I've got the experience... these people don't!

How the hell can these people claim to have experience when they don't?
And ya know what... the "You drink too much absinth" line is getting really old.

I ask you.
Who here has ANY experience in protection dog training.
Please raise your hand.

Seriously.


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)




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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Yeah, see... none of you have anything at all to say about protection dog training.

Wild. Just wild.


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

Piranha_man said:


>


perfect emoticon :laugh:


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)

I have something to say, P-man.

In my opinion, Protection dog training is a waste of time.

happy?


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

________________________

Ya know what actually... if you guys wanna talk "Protection dogs..." then start a thread sometime on it with the intent of talking about them.
'Til then, I'm done with this ridiculous thread.









Peace out.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

...and to be sure there will be no more arguing in this thread and to help Piranha_man with his New Year's Resolution:


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

I have experiance in protection dog training but am not about to get caught up in this







Cause i'm a good girl







Pman you need a


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Thank god.

This was the most ridiculous thread I think I've ever seen.











BioTeAcH said:


> I have experiance in protection dog training but am not about to get caught up in this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You wanna give me a hug?


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

Piranha_man said:


> I have experiance in protection dog training but am not about to get caught up in this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You wanna give me a hug?
[/quote]


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

______________________________
______________________________

Funny thing if ya think about it...
Most people choose pets that are extensions of their personalities.

We all raise piranhas. 
What happens with a group of pygos... sometimes they all gang-up on one and frenzy on his ass.
That's exactly what happened here tonight... I pretty much got frenzied on.

Ya know what?
No hard feelings though.
I know that you guys can't help yourselves... because you're all a bunch of "Piranhas."









So... if I could, I'd give you all a big, sloppy, wet kiss.


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

BioTeAcH said:


> ...and to be sure there will be no more arguing in this thread and to help Piranha_man with his New Year's Resolution:


mod fail


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)

Piranha_man said:


> ______________________________
> ______________________________
> 
> Funny thing if ya think about it...
> ...


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## Pit_man (Sep 13, 2008)

Hey P-man I do have a attack dog. And as I told you, I will post a vid soon of my pit, but dont have a bite sleeve so it will just be of my buddy teasing him on the leash. I do know he bites for real as he has bit 5 diff ppl. They all started leaking this red colored liquid! He is on all the time when he is in my business and in my car. When he is in the house he is layed back untill i tell him not to be (if im home), when im not home he is alwasys on there as well. He is 7 years old a weighs 64 pounds.

This is a very crapy pic of him wanting to bite some ass

View attachment 176527


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)

those your pants?


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## Pit_man (Sep 13, 2008)

haha no thats my girl


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

That's a cool lookin' dog dude...
(And I presume that's his girlfriend's pajamas...)

I envy that your dog will "Off" when you tell it to.
I still have to get my dom. female to that point.
This spring I will have the time in which to implement that level of training.

Would love to see some video!

(When it comes to pits... brindles have always been my favorite.)


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I really hope to not upset AK with another dobermann video here... but WTF.

This is my favorite protection video of alltime.
(Sound up is a must.)

http://www.iwo-magic.de/FilmarchivGero/Gladiator.wmv


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## need_redz (May 11, 2007)

haha you people are just plain jokes lol
All of you are going on with your own crap and 80% has nothing to do with this thread, just pure smack!


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

ibtl


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## need_redz (May 11, 2007)




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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

need_redz said:


>


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## need_redz (May 11, 2007)

Here lets speed this up...
sh*t, ass, f*ck, bitch titties....


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

View attachment 176531


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## need_redz (May 11, 2007)

lol that'll do..that'll do...


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

need_redz said:


> haha you people are just plain jokes lol
> All of you are going on with your own crap and 80% has nothing to do with this thread, just pure smack!


Oh man, you're so right!
What the hell does a video about protection dog training have to do with protection dog training?

Wow man.
This thread has totally stepped into the Twilight Zone.


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

TWO WORDS: "German Shepard"- Best there ever was, best there EVER will be. Protection, looks, Power....... there is a reason why they are used in military, and police services.

But that's all in my opinion though HA! could be wrong could be right. I'm also fond of Chihuahuas, but i guess that is more for protection of your lap......

Hey Piranha man, my family used to have a beautiful Red doberman, and he would run and hide under the table too when there was a thunder storm :laugh: I have witnessed this a few time with the Breed, But ears snipped and tail clipped, they are quite intimidating. And that's all it takes sometimes is a bit intimation instead of action.

I hope this Thread stays open. Its a good one. But like usual it will probably get shut down.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

-NBKK- said:


> TWO WORDS: "German Shepard"- Best there ever was, best there EVER will be. Protection, looks, Power....... there is a reason why they are used in military, and police services.
> 
> But that's all in my opinion though HA! could be wrong could be right. I'm also fond of Chihuahuas, but i guess that is more for protection of your lap......
> 
> ...


If you had the attention span of a 3 year old, you'd have seen my earlier post where I said that I myself had a doberman that's American bloodline, 80 pounds, unneutered male... that literally hides under the table when people come over.

How about using your 40 IQs of intelligence and checking out the couple of videos that I have posted showing my female dobermann at work.

Thus far in this MOST RIDICULOUS thread... they're the only videos posted.
Everybody else who's posted knows sh*t about protection training... and has absolutely nothing to offer.

I'd LOVE to see somebody else's videos of their protection training.. but obviously none exists.









Thus far in this thread, it's P-man 100... everybody else 0.

Show me ONE single dog doing protection work.
One.

Yeah... thought so.

And... I even asked to have this thread closed, and the dumbshit moderator couldn't even get that sh*t right.
Posted a "Closed Thread" emoticon and kept it going.

Looooooooooooooooosers.


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Ya, that's what i meant.... my old doberman used to hide under the table too. Am i missing something here ? didn't mean to offend or throw fuel on the fire.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Besides, 'Red dobermanns' are a "weak gene" dobie.
But since you're the expert I assume you know that.


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Ha not an expert at all. And didn't know that it was a weak gene type. Why are the red dobermans the weak ones of the breed ?

i have seen a few dobermans run and hide from loud noises, people shouting and thunderstorms. i didn't mean to put the whole breed in a bucket and say they are wusses.

I'm not an expert at all when it comes to this subject, the closest i have come to even being close to the dog protection scene is my Chihuahua biting peoples hands when he is on my lap and some one tries to Touch me.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

-NBKK- said:


> Ya, that's what i meant.... my old doberman used to hide under the table too. Am i missing something here ? didn't mean to offend or throw fuel on the fire.


No, you aren't missing anything.. you're just the typical dumbshit that gets an American line dobie, expecting something more from them.
It's not your fault you're ignorant...

American dobies are wussies.
If you wanna see a real dobie... check out my female puppy video earlier in this thread.
That's what a REAL dobie can do.


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Woah, P-man. I respect you, you are a good guy on the forums, No need to start throwing around insults man. We got him for companionship and because the bottom line they are a beautiful breed, he was a family dog and did his purpose. we didn't make him a watch dog, a fighter or anything aggressive like that. he was just "RED" our doberman. We left the watch dog /Protection for the German Shepard to deal with heh.

and all i said, was just like what you said , my doberman like yours hid under the table. Thought it was a funny coincidence.
I didn't know there was a split of American dobermans what ever else there is out there.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

As I said earlier... I don't know why this thread even exists really... I didn't create it, although my name is in it's title... some dumbshit moderator put my name on it.

Then, the only one who even wants to discuss protection dogs is me... everybody else just wants to jump my ass for whatever reason.

So basically, IMO... the dumbshit idiot who started this thread in the first place and put my name on it is a retard... and so is everybody else who has posted stupid sh*t that has nothing to do with protection dogs.

Funny ass sh*t IMO... I mean really!
Goes to show the intelligence of people on this site.

"Let's start a thread on a topic that none of us wanna really talk about, and then put somebody else's name on it... and then hash his ass because he's the only one who's got professional experience in the field!"

I mean really! 
The intelligence displayed here tonight is mind boggling!


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Hey, i tried, i wanted to focus more on the German Shepherds sides of things. That's why i mentioned them........


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

-NBKK- said:


> Hey, i tried, i wanted to focus more on the German Shepherds sides of things. That's why i mentioned them........


Yeah, that's cool.
Hell, as a decoy I practically got my arm socket torn out one time by a 100 lb GSD.

I've gotta really hand it to the moderators tonight.
3 of them have been asked to close this thread.
1 even tried, and couldn't even do that right.

Is it a full moon tonight?


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

They are probably all in Bullsnakes funny picture thread haha.

What do other countries use as "work" dogs do you know ? all i have ever seen has been German shepherds.

You guys wanna see some cool Sh!t check this out, been on my favorites list on you tube for a while now. 1:00 is awesome.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.
> 
> Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"
> 
> ...


My beagle? suuure, but I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this on a strange pit in a strangers house unless you're prepared to go a few rounds with said pit lol. Pits have a tendency to bite before they bark when threatened, especially when you're on his territory. I'm not saying to show fear but I wouldn't recommend not showing respect either until he gets to know you lol.

Good example I had this one female a looong loong time ago that actually surprised the sh*t out of me one time. Keep in mind I've never raised a pit to be aggressive in anyway shape of form, my fascination with the breed has always been with how lovable and smart they are given their reputation. Anyway, a bar fight lol as usual and I beat the crap out of this guy pretty good. Very next day I ran into him and a few of his friends outside of a gas station while I was getting gas. My pit was in my truck with the window a quarter of the way down, but when these guys approached running off out the mouth I completely forgot I had her with me. So I'm waiting for one of them to get a bit more closer, they're getting louder talking all types of sh*t. Theres 3 of them now and my pit just went nuts lol literally forcing my window down and trying to chew on it just to get at one of these guys. lol it startled me. Long story short they smartened up and walked away.. lol talking sh*t of course..


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## TobiasRieper (Mar 14, 2008)

^^ wow thats a crazy video


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

-NBKK- said:


> They are probably all in Bullsnakes funny picture thread haha.
> 
> What do other countries use as "work" dogs do you know ? all i have ever seen has been German shepherds.
> 
> You guys wanna see some cool Sh!t check this out, been on my favorites list on you tube for a while now. 1:00 is awesome.


I'm pretty sure those are malinois. 
And that one needs to be trained when to turn the "switch" off....locking on to his handler like that. Good vid.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Alright well.. I'm hittin' the sack.
It's been a riot killing the night with you idiots.

Everybody's all of a sudden a "Protection dog training expert."

"Hey man... P-man has been a protection dog trainer for years and really knows his stuff... so despite the fact that we have absolutely no experience in the subject... let's pretend we do and put him down for his knowledge!"

Wooooooow!

And then... "Hey, I'm a dumbshit, retarded moderator, and I'm gonna close this thread down... but wait, I'm too retarded to do it, so I'll just say that I'm gonna do it and then not!"

Well, to say the least... it's been a very interesting night.

Y'all sleep well now, y'hear?

Oh, and moderators... don't quite your day jobs!


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> Alright well.. I'm hittin' the sack.
> It's been a riot killing the night with you idiots.
> 
> Everybody's all of a sudden a "Protection dog training expert."
> ...


what I miss o.o

/reads up


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Ya when i first watched it i was in awe.

It's crazy how fast and hard they can Hit. Kinda scary too. Doberman, German Shepard, Pitbull........... they all have teeth and can out run me, totally winning my respect right there lol.

It would be fun training These dogs. Hell i have fun teaching My chihuahua to sake paw. I couldn't imagine training a dog to take down a person. Cool









But I guess it has its draw backs like in the vid at 45 seconds........ ouch.

My Gf sent me this one a long time ago, i thought it was hilarious.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Oh and p.s...

Hey all you "Expert protection dog trainers..." where's your videos?
C'mon.. I shared mine... even took 2 special ones "Off the cuff" this afternoon "Just for you" without any warmup...

Where's YOUR videos??

HMMMMMMMMMMM?









































































____________

Dumbfuck retards... I'm going to bed.

Sianora


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Tango374 said:


> They are probably all in Bullsnakes funny picture thread haha.
> 
> What do other countries use as "work" dogs do you know ? all i have ever seen has been German shepherds.
> 
> You guys wanna see some cool Sh!t check this out, been on my favorites list on you tube for a while now. 1:00 is awesome.


I'm pretty sure those are malinois. 
And that one needs to be trained when to turn the "switch" off....locking on to his handler like that. Good vid.
[/quote]

I see what your saying, i was not familiar with this breed, They have to be really close to the German shepard breed, they look so alike


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## Pit_man (Sep 13, 2008)

Liquid said:


> For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.
> 
> Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"
> 
> ...


My beagle? suuure, but I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this on a strange pit in a strangers house unless you're prepared to go a few rounds with said pit lol. Pits have a tendency to bite before they bark when threatened, especially when you're on his territory. I'm not saying to show fear but I wouldn't recommend not showing respect either until he gets to know you lol.

Good example I had this one female a looong loong time ago that actually surprised the sh*t out of me one time. Keep in mind I've never raised a pit to be aggressive in anyway shape of form, my fascination with the breed has always been with how lovable and smart they are given their reputation. Anyway, a bar fight lol as usual and I beat the crap out of this guy pretty good. Very next day I ran into him and a few of his friends outside of a gas station while I was getting gas. My pit was in my truck with the window a quarter of the way down, but when these guys approached running off out the mouth I completely forgot I had her with me. So I'm waiting for one of them to get a bit more closer, they're getting louder talking all types of sh*t. Theres 3 of them now and my pit just went nuts lol literally forcing my window down and trying to chew on it just to get at one of these guys. lol it startled me. Long story short they smartened up and walked away.. lol talking sh*t of course..
[/quote]

A lot of ppl get close to getting bit by my pit because he is wagging his tail, he is just happy as sh*t if you would put your hand in my car or across the counter in my office at work! He will and does bark and growl just not as much as other types of dogs. Stupid ppl think as long as the tail is wagging it meens they must be friendly, NOT TRUE!


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Pit_man said:


> For those of you who believe that most dogs will protect their family and home, try this test.
> 
> Next time you're at somebody's house that has a dog inside and the dog is barking at you, look the dog squarely in the eye, raise your hands up in a threatening way, quickly make a jerking advance toward the dog and shout "Hey!"
> 
> ...


My beagle? suuure, but I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this on a strange pit in a strangers house unless you're prepared to go a few rounds with said pit lol. Pits have a tendency to bite before they bark when threatened, especially when you're on his territory. I'm not saying to show fear but I wouldn't recommend not showing respect either until he gets to know you lol.

Good example I had this one female a looong loong time ago that actually surprised the sh*t out of me one time. Keep in mind I've never raised a pit to be aggressive in anyway shape of form, my fascination with the breed has always been with how lovable and smart they are given their reputation. Anyway, a bar fight lol as usual and I beat the crap out of this guy pretty good. Very next day I ran into him and a few of his friends outside of a gas station while I was getting gas. My pit was in my truck with the window a quarter of the way down, but when these guys approached running off out the mouth I completely forgot I had her with me. So I'm waiting for one of them to get a bit more closer, they're getting louder talking all types of sh*t. Theres 3 of them now and my pit just went nuts lol literally forcing my window down and trying to chew on it just to get at one of these guys. lol it startled me. Long story short they smartened up and walked away.. lol talking sh*t of course..
[/quote]

A lot of ppl get close to getting bit by my pit because he is wagging his tail, he is just happy as sh*t if you would put your hand in my car or across the counter in my office at work! He will and does bark and growl just not as much as other types of dogs. Stupid ppl think as long as the tail is wagging it meens they must be friendly, NOT TRUE!
[/quote]

I agree, and that goes for a lot of other animals not just dogs. I remember reading somewhere a cats tail whips side to side to gain more balance before attacking. Not really like what your saying but kinda builds up your point more, as an example.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

gvrayman said:


> those your pants?


LOL sorry, just spit tea all over my laptop.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> Oh and p.s...
> 
> Hey all you "Expert protection dog trainers..." where's your videos?
> C'mon.. I shared mine... even took 2 special ones "Off the cuff" this afternoon "Just for you" without any warmup...
> ...


What am I supposed to say here so you don't get all squirley









No disrespect, but you had me until you advised someone to stare in any dogs eyes and jump at him while waving the hands. Cmon man, can you honestly say as a trainer, you'd be comfortable doing that to any none the less to any "strange" dog, but in his house? I know a few dogs that would make that plan backfire quickle :laugh: . I catch a few dog whisperer shows once in a while, but even he gets to know the dogs before establishing dominance.


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## -NBKK- (Jun 22, 2007)

Funny, When encountered with a Black bear, one is supposed to stare in it's eyes, yell and wave your arms at it. So if it would work on a bear you would think it would work on one a dog.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

Closed


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

ICEE said:


> ...and to be sure there will be no more arguing in this thread and to help Piranha_man with his New Year's Resolution:


mod fail
[/quote]










At least I added to the entertainment value...sure gave me a chuckle when I logged back in this afternoon!


----------

