# Enducing Spawn



## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Thunderbird's thread on the caribes got me very curious.
For those with fish breeding experience, please share with us your techniques to enduce or to trick mated pairs to spawn. I have some knowledge in breeding but not piranhas yet. But I am sure it will work. Sometimes fish just don't breed unless you intervene with their environment.
I'll put in my $0.02 if there is an interest.

Thanks.


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

ive talked to people that had to induce spawning by flooding with water changes and feeding heavy and some have had them breed out of nowhere.. just due to good feeding and good water conditions.


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## water_boy173 (Nov 20, 2005)

make a rain system like the guys from dont go in the water.com, thats how he started a sucessful piranha breedring project!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Frank has also mentioned on his site that the man in MI that bred cariba once lowered the water level a lot to mimic the dry season in South America.
~Taylor~


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Yep,
The seasonal trick is what I am talking about.
I don't need to explain the seasons and environmental changes for you guys; you know this stuff already but I am going to share with you my experience with discus. Although not the same species, but they pretty much live in the same ecosystem.
I had discus for years and successfully breed them and for many generations.
Usually my discus would breed all the time; however I do have pairs that just refuse to breed.
For these stuborn fish, I would gradually lower their water level during each water changes while increasing heat and decreasing the water change schedule. For example:
Week 1 - change water 50 % and add only up to 90% capacity and raise 2F, feed once per day.
Week 2 - change water 40% and add only up to 80% capacity and raise another 2F, feed once per day.
3 days later - change 30% and add only up to 70% capacity and raise another 2F, no feed .
3 days later - change 20% and add only up to 60% capacity and raise another 2F, no feed. 
3 days later - change 10% and add only up to 50% capacity and raise another 2F, no feed.
Let sit for 4 days no feed.
Next day - add water up to 50% of tank capacity.
Next day - add water up to 100% of tank capacity, feed once.
Next day - change 50% water, feed twice.
Next day - change 50% water, feed twice.
Next day - change 50% water, feed twice.
Repeat daily water changes and fish would breed within two weeks.

Starting at 86F and ending at 96-98F with water level at the end only up to fish's dorsal fin.
This method has not yet failed me on breeding discus and I would think that piranhas will also respond to this trick. I am going to try it with the harder to breed fish after I get a reliable pair.
I wouldn't hurt to try.

Thanks


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## TheTyeMan (Aug 9, 2004)

I tend to starve mine alittle going to a feeding once every 4-5 days. for about a month and doing water changes on sundays. then after the month mark start changing water every 2-3 days and feeding heavily every day. usualy withinn 2 weeks after the heavy feedings beguin they start nesting and then the eggs start comming.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

pedro says its really the volume of the tank that makes the difference.. he said its funny how people mimic the wet and dry season.. we were laughing about it.. he said u just really need a BIG-ASS-TANK.. and they will breed


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

jiggy said:


> pedro says its really the volume of the tank that makes the difference.. he said its funny how people mimic the wet and dry season.. we were laughing about it.. he said u just really need a BIG-ASS-TANK.. and they will breed


wierd. when i talked to him about trying to breed my ternetzi a long time ago he was tellin me how to simulate season


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## TheTyeMan (Aug 9, 2004)

well it was withinn the first 4 weeks that my reds were in my 135(after being in a 72 for 6 months) that they layed their first batch.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> pedro says its really the volume of the tank that makes the difference.. he said its funny how people mimic the wet and dry season.. we were laughing about it.. he said u just really need a BIG-ASS-TANK.. and they will breed


wierd. when i talked to him about trying to breed my ternetzi a long time ago he was tellin me how to simulate season
[/quote]

I would think that tank size is also a significant factor since aquatic plants are apart of the spawning ritual.
Has any one ever bred RBs in a non-planted tank?
Man, this is such a big challenge for me since I've never had any aquarium fish that I could not successful breed. I threw away 10 years of my discus keeping for these toothy bastards.








Talk about excitement.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

people breed rbp in barebottom tanks all the time


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Round Head said:


> pedro says its really the volume of the tank that makes the difference.. he said its funny how people mimic the wet and dry season.. we were laughing about it.. he said u just really need a BIG-ASS-TANK.. and they will breed


wierd. when i talked to him about trying to breed my ternetzi a long time ago he was tellin me how to simulate season
[/quote]

I would think that tank size is also a significant factor since aquatic plants are apart of the spawning ritual.
Has any one ever bred RBs in a non-planted tank?
Man, this is such a big challenge for me since I've never had any aquarium fish that I could not successful breed. I threw away 10 years of my discus keeping for these toothy bastards.








Talk about excitement.








[/quote]

give me a call oneday and i can give u info that ive picked up from a few breeders ive talked to


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## thunderbird (May 6, 2005)

RH,
Perhaps you've thought about this already..how about introducing one breeding pair of RBPs into a big tank(240 gallon, for example) which holds 4 caribe? Obviously, it's easy to get the RBPs to indulge; and perhaps they'll get the caribes going as well?
Another thing I have noticed is how much the caribes like cover. They used to be pretty freaked out earlier(even when I'm feeding them), but with a lot of plants(I have 9 of amazons, one of them really huge; and an assortment of floating plants) they're really secure. Security is key to getting comfortable, most likely.
Lastly, it must be verified whether the caribes even display breeding behaviour? Does anyone have caribes that display darker coloration, nest-building, etc? Or is it the case that they do engage in such activity, but never do the deed?
Good luck with your efforts!










Round Head said:


> pedro says its really the volume of the tank that makes the difference.. he said its funny how people mimic the wet and dry season.. we were laughing about it.. he said u just really need a BIG-ASS-TANK.. and they will breed


wierd. when i talked to him about trying to breed my ternetzi a long time ago he was tellin me how to simulate season
[/quote]

I would think that tank size is also a significant factor since aquatic plants are apart of the spawning ritual.
Has any one ever bred RBs in a non-planted tank?
Man, this is such a big challenge for me since I've never had any aquarium fish that I could not successful breed. I threw away 10 years of my discus keeping for these toothy bastards.








Talk about excitement.








[/quote]


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Thunderbird,
You're thread on those caribes got me very excited to look forward to attempt breeding these fish.
Like I said before, the environment you have for those caribes can not be more ideal. But then again there is no reference on what type of spawning beds which they breed on in the wild. The pacific and atlantic salmon migrate back to the river beds to spawn and since piranhas are the salmon family, you would think they preform some kind of a migration ritual. Also it is difficult to know if we indeed have a pair of male and female, but there is a sure way to find out. 
As for a life porn show to get them arroused, hahaha, that will work as I have done it with young pair of discus by placing them in breeder tanks next to the proven pairs to teach them. I can't prove this scientifically but it has worked for me. On the other hand having a breeding pair breeding in the same tank with the caribes might work very well because there will be lots of hormone in the water that may trigger the caribe's reproduction system.
These fish are not sterile so to get them to breed is not impossible, we just have to find out about their breeding habitat. Maybe a drastic switch of the environment might work. Who knows but it's worth a try. Heck, if I can get a ripe pair, I'll do it artificially.


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

thetyeman said:


> I tend to starve mine alittle going to a feeding once every 4-5 days. for about a month and doing water changes on sundays. then after the month mark start changing water every 2-3 days and feeding heavily every day. usualy withinn 2 weeks after the heavy feedings beguin they start nesting and then the eggs start comming.


I do the same but raise my temp to about 82 degrees. I have stopped their breeding for now, its just to stressful, They were laying eggs weekly and it was getting quite annoying so I postponed their breeding. I moved them into a all glass 125 and now the main breeding female has passed onto a better life. So I have 1 actual breeding pair.


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## Zip (Apr 17, 2005)

I think it's a combination of tank size and water changing and feeding.

Mine spawn pretty dependably a couple days after a water change and a big meal. I haven't cleaned my tank now for almost 4 weeks (am toying with nitrate levels and my plants), and there hasn't been a spawn - which is fine with me because I grew tired of the work involved with raising the fry, and having my female all beaten up from the spawning sessions.

In addition, they had their very first spawn within a couple weeks of moving them from a 55 gallon to a 75 gallon tank.


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