# how puffers survive their poison



## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

link to animal plante site


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## bmpower007 (Feb 11, 2005)

Thats cool, nice info


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

That's pretty amazing stuff
1000 times deadlier than Cyanide


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

im aching to try puffer. yummm.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

ill try ten minutes after you do


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## Red Eyes (Nov 25, 2003)

" ... It is also this toxin that the female puffer fish uses to attract males during spawning ..."









Interesting read.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Wow Freez! Cool stuff! Now how are kingsnakes immune to rattlesnake venom....


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

acestro said:


> Wow Freez! Cool stuff! Now how are kingsnakes immune to rattlesnake venom....


that will take some lookin









i have found this

looks like some kinda natural immune to it but havent found the why


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

It's kinda tricky. I've heard they aren't completely immune but have a high tolerance. What's cool is how rattlesnakes respond completely different to kingsnakes (they dont rattle and strike, they just 'body bridge' to block off the kingsnake/look big).

It's all about the proteins (by the way, sorry for the semi-derail of a great topic):

Lampropeltis is the genus of kingsnakes (for those that dont know). What's cool is how ratsnakes have some immunity, pine snakes have none, and kingsnakes have NO immunity to coral snakes.

Venom neutralization properties and protein content of serum from 11 taxa of Lampropeltis were studied. Most serum samples contained 6.5% to 9.5% protein. Lampropeltis g. getulus and L. g. floridana serum showed the broadest spectrum of effective neutralization of venoms from 10 crotaline taxa. Lampropeltis t. triangulum, L. t. hondurensis, L. mexicana greeri, and L. alterna effectively neutralized many of the venoms assayed, but were less efficacious than the other Lampropeltis species tested. Most of the serum samples investigated had variably effective neutralization capacities for venoms with strong hemorrhagic activities (Crotalus atrox, C. adamanteus, C. v. viridis). Sera from L. g. holbrooki and L. g. floridana were particularly effective in neutralizing venoms of Agkistrodon piscivorus conanti and A. contortrix mokasen. Only L. g. getulus, L. g. floridana and L. ruthveni sera neutralized over 100 LD-50 of C. v. helleri venom per ml. Only four serum samples (L. g. getulus, L. g. floridana, L. calligaster, and L. t. triangulum) were effective against type A C. s. scutulatus venom (contained high concentration of the potent neurotoxin, Mojave toxin). All Lampropeltis sera assayed had effective neutralization potential for type B C. s. scutulatus venom, which has strong hemorrhagic and proteolytic activities and lacks Mojave toxin. All serum samples assayed were ineffective against venom of the elapid Micrurus f. fulvius. Serum from Elaphe g. guttata effectively neutralized several crotaline venoms, while Rhinocheilus lecontei antonii serum had only marginal neutralization capacity for several venoms. Serum from Pituophis melanoleucus sayi and the natricine Thamnophis s. sirtalis had no neutralization capacity for any venom tested. Venom-neutralizing serum proteins of Lampropeltis appear to be most effective against hemorrhagic and proteolytic venoms, with little or no neutralization capacities against venoms containing high concentrations of hypotensive peptides, post- or presynaptically acting neurotoxins, and/or myolytic phospholipases A-2.

from: Weinstein, S. A., C. F. DeWitt, and L. A. Smith. 1992. Variability of venom-neutralizing properties of serum from snakes of the colubrid genus Lampropeltis. Journal of Herpetology 26:452-461.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

:laugh:








dam, no wonder i cant find anything, i didnt have my dictionary and latin to laymen

dictionary with me









sounds like some or more immune to others venom

or effect them differently


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

It's cool, it actually falls out geographically. The kingsnakes of the east have more tolerance for cottonmouths and copperheadsn venom (which are more common in the east). Great evolutionary stuff!


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Twiggy knows a hot-snake keeper who injects himself with various Elapidae (cobra) poisons every 3 weeks, to allow him to handle his snakes with greater freedom. of course he still has to be careful with his vipers.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

saw a guy on some discovery show thats handled cobras for so

long and bitin so many times he was immune to them but

his hands were just crippled lookin. its still has to

feel pretty pain full though


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I've heard the horses that they inject to get antivenin look pretty rough. There are enough cool colubrids, I'd never bother (although cobras would be an exception, they are amazing).


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## Feeder_Phish (Apr 15, 2005)

i was watching animal planet/national geo(forgot which one lol) and they had this show about the honey badger and the badger was coming along down the path and it comes against a cobra and the cobra bit him because he tried to eat the cobra......so the honey badger gets bit but kills the cobra then DROPS DEAD







(not really dead but passes out but i thought it was dead because i just watched it for the first time) then after 1 minute it comesback ALIVE and eats the cobra

theres also that one episode in the croc hunter where theres snake that could eat cane toads


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Interesting read about the puffer and snakes


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## errik00 (Feb 4, 2006)

Off-topic question. Do puffer fish really blowup into a huge ball like the cartoons? pics?


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

errik00 said:


> Off-topic question. Do puffer fish really blowup into a huge ball like the cartoons? pics?


Of course they do, that's how they got the name "Puffer," they puff up with water.

They won't do it if you bang on the glass of the tank. They only puff up if they think their life is seriously in danger... Like if you grab them and squeeze them lightly or if you net them they'll puff up sometimes. If you grab them they will also try to bite you. And if they do it hurts. Like hell. Like, they take a chunk out of your finger/hand and you bleed a lot.

If they puff up with air they can die. The air gets trapped in them and throws their bouyancy off. I've had to do several emergency surgeries on pufferfish that we get in from Asia(I work for a coral/fish import place). Pretty much pop the fish with a sterile blade and squeeze the air out then treat the wound with iodine and hope for the best. I don't think a single fish I've "operated on" has died.

Pics: http://images.google.com/images?q=puffer%2...1&qpos=0&tab=wi (google images is amazing, try it out)


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## myles (Feb 27, 2005)

weird stuff, so is my fahaka puffer poison is too? i mean he doesn't eat anything toxic that i know of haha so would he still have poison? thanks


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## bjmarche (Jun 30, 2005)

hyphen said:


> im aching to try puffer. yummm.


mmm.
And as for puffer fish losing their toxicity due to a lack of toxic food, I'd say that's probably true. The same thing happens to all Poison Dart Frog species, apparently because of a lack of an ant they eat in the wild, that contains powerful toxins.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

so you are really what you eat


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