# Breeding Ver. 2.0



## StryfeMP

Alright, well I've been doing a lot of research trying to get this thing mastered. I've lost many a batch in trying to get higher survival rates with my sensitive fry, I've got only 53 from the last couple of batches altogether, so my rates have been incredibly low. This time around, I'm utilizing 4 10 gallon bare bottom fish tanks with square sponge filter. The tanks are connected together by way of syphon U tubes assembled with pvc. The U tubes keep the water in the 4 tanks all at the same level. The first 10 gal is where the reverse osmosis water pumps into, haven't calculated how much water it pumps but its rated at 100gpd, although I don't believe it produces/filters that much a day considering I have low pressure in my lines. But I believe it's going to be enough. The 4th 10 gal, they are lined up side by side, has a small make shift overflow box and the overflow water collects in a 29gallon tank I have on the ground in front of the setup. I use the water collected for water changes in a few of my other tanks. Basically I've made an automatic water changing system for the fry so they've always got nice and clean water.

I have a baby brine shrimp hatchery running and I also have small ice cubes filled with freshly hatched bbs in the freezer. As a supporting food, I have in the works microworms, they are just starting to climb the sides of the containers I have them in, but not by much, should have a significant amount in a weeks time. I plan to overfeed in order to make sure that all fry are fed and none goes hungry and dies on me. This is what I plan to utilize the microworms for since they survive in the aquaria for around 24 hours, giving the hungry fry time to look for and eat the microworms.

There are 2 sets of eggs laid by 2 pairs I house in a 75 gallon, once they were breeding I took out the other 3 and placed them in a 40 gallon breeder, I know theres a pair in those 3 but don't know which two are the pair. The eggs were laid on the night of the 12th of October. Once they began to develop tails, Oct. 14, I syhponed them out and placed them in a 10gallon tank. At the moment, they are still bunched up in what looks to be like little balls made up of around 6-10fry stuck together. They've also developed their eyes.

I've read that the first few weeks are the most crucial time in the development and health of the fry and is what counts in the survival of the fry. I hope that this setup and plan will be exactly what I need to rear these baby fry and get over the hurdle of the first 3 to 4 weeks. I believe that once I am passed the 4 week mark, it will be a whole lot easier in raising them.

That's all I have for tonight. I will post pictures of the setup and new spawn when I get my hands on a camera. Thanks for joining me in this awesome experience.


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## Ægir

I dont know if you want to use pure RO/ DI water at that quantity.... distilled water lacks all the minerals and goodies fish need some of.... and i am pretty sure it can harm your fish if large amounts are introduced at once... maybe if you had it on a timer, 1 hour on, 5 off or something? other than that you should have a good thing going for you with this setup! also... i dont know if U tubes will always keep things even... you may want to have them all drilled with bulkheads in the same place, and connect them at the top of the tank... just seems more reliable if you have water pumping into one tank and you loose siphon... you got a mess!


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## StryfeMP

That's true with the U tubes, I went through a week long test phase before I actually put anything in there. The pvc pipes are siliconed into one another so I'm not worried about losing syphon. They actually do keep the water all level for all 4 tanks. As for the water quality and reminiralization, I'm using Tetra Aqua EasyBalance to put in the trace elements and minerals back into the filtered water. Do you have any thoughts on this product, I just started using it again just for the reminiralization but when I first got Ps, this product along with AquaSafe was what I used to condition the water for my baby Ps. Let me know if there is another product thats better, this is what I've found that I had laying around the house. Thanks.

Also, I forgot to mention that aside from the 2 foods listed in the first post, I've also got decapsulated brine shrimp eggs that the fry seem to enjoy.


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## StryfeMP

Alright, so I've figured out how much water my r/o filter pumps out a day. So, the r/o filter produced 29gallons of water in 21 hours so I figure it produces around 1.3gallons of water an hour, which means that it produces right about 31.2 gallons per day. I used a water change rate calculator I found in one of the topics in the diy section and calculated that the setup would be changing 54.16% of the 40 gallons of water per day for the 4 10 gallon tanks together. This is kind of overkill for keeping the water clean and clear, but I've got to master the type of setup I need in order to breed other fish in the future and maybe start a business out of my love for the hobby of fishkeeping. I'm excited about this setup and hope my plans work out.


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## XSPhoto

StryfeMP said:


> Alright, so I've figured out how much water my r/o filter pumps out a day. So, the r/o filter produced 29gallons of water in 21 hours so I figure it produces around 1.3gallons of water an hour, which means that it produces right about 31.2 gallons per day. I used a water change rate calculator I found in one of the topics in the diy section and calculated that the setup would be changing 54.16% of the 40 gallons of water per day for the 4 10 gallon tanks together. This is kind of overkill for keeping the water clean and clear, but I've got to master the type of setup I need in order to breed other fish in the future and maybe start a business out of my love for the hobby of fishkeeping. I'm excited about this setup and hope my plans work out.


That's pretty impressive. You may want to look into modifying the R/O filter so that doesn't take out all of the minerals.


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## StryfeMP

I don't understand how I would be able to make it not take out all of the minerals in the water. I did some research online after reading your post but all I found was a cartridge that puts back some minerals into the r/o in order to balance the ph. That is all I found on the topic though. Do you know some information on it or maybe a website?


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## StryfeMP

Day 5:

It's about noon time now and I've thrown in an ice cube of bbs into the 10gal fry tank, most of them are now swimming around not stuck to things by their eggsack, although they do still have their eggsacks. A few of them have rid of their egg sacks and are just swimming around, this is why I am beginning the feeding today. I used one of the ice cube that had pretty much the least bbs in it. There's so many of them that it's hard to tell where the ones with no sacks are. Temperature is at 84, water params are in check. I'm loving this automatic water change setup. I'm very excited!


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## StryfeMP

Day 6 of the project. All of the fry are now free swimming and are eating vigorously. I have been feeding them microworms as well as baby brine shrimp. I have my temps around 86degrees F. I am feeding them baby brine shrimp 3-4 times a day and for the last feeding of the night, I throw in some microworms, since they live longer in the water and just squirm around on the bottom of the tank where the fry mostly chill at. The microworms are about the same size, and some growing worms are even smaller so its a pretty good deal, the smaller fry with smaller mouths still get some food. So far so good. I guesstimated a head count and I came up with 2000 fry more or less. I have very few deaths, only 12 so far. I wasn't surprised that the ones that died did end up dying. The ones that died were weird, they seemed to be underdeveloped, missing a fin, or a tail. It was the first time I've seen anything like that before. But anyway, from before by now I would have so many deaths on my hands, so I'm sure that my setup is working. The fry are eating very well and I love seeing their little stomachs filled with bbs bulge out and turn orange. I am getting a camera either today or tomorow, so I will post pictures then.


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## XSPhoto

Sounds outstanding! I'd love to see some pics of this setup, and thanks for all the updates!

as far as RO modification is concerned, there are numerous things that you can do to modify it, depending on how many stages your RO system is. If you have access to the RO membrane in your system, simply removing part of it (by cutting or drilling etc) will allow for less RO filtration, resulting in a less "pure" filtered water. There are also modifications that can be made to the polishing carbon and other post RO membrane parts, but the membrane itself is most effective.

but since your fry seem to be doing well you may just want to keep up with what your doing. my only concern would be that when they get older they wont have the same tolerance levels as other fish have, and then you'll be stuck w/ 2000 bubbleboy baby P's!


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## StryfeMP

lol bubbleboy baby P's! I'm sure even if they do get used to the the cleanliness of their water, I'll be able to heighten their tolerance later on in their lives by adding treated tap to the ro water used for water changes. I think doing that and slowly getting them acclimated to the normal treated tap water is achievable and pretty plausible.


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## StryfeMP

Day 7:
Death Count = 30


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## XSPhoto

30 out of 2000 in 7 days... not too shabby. that's only like 1.5% which could be due to almost anything. Congrats, and keep it up!


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## StryfeMP

Well, now it is 4:05pm and the death toll has gone up to 45.


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## StryfeMP

It's 9pm now. 
Man, you miss a feeding and let them go hungry and a bunch of them start dying off, I came home today and had to turkey baste 73 dead ones out, seemed fresh dead and hadn't turned white yet. So, death toll adds up to 118, 5.9% deaths so far, approximately.


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## primetime3wise

good stuff, when/if my breed will find this very useful, thx


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## primetime3wise

can you get pics of the setups? interested to see what the tank they breed in is like, aquascaped, as well of the fry tanks


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## StryfeMP

I should be getting my camera back later on tonight, I will be posting up pictures in a few hours. It's hard to describe what's going on without any pictures; pictures do speak plenty.


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## StryfeMP

Day 8 I believe and I woke up a little bit ago and found 53 had died. That makes the total death toll to 171. Those little guys really do need food A LOT, cause when they go hungry and have empty stomachs for a while they just die off. I'm thinking maybe yesterday I wasn't overfeeding like I wanted to but instead putting too little food in there. I'm going to start hatching more bbs, the other foods other than the microworms aren't performing well, not all the fry seem to eat it up. BUT, the freshly hatched live baby brine shrimp, they all go for. Also, to add to the thread, I have 2 fluvals on the tank, a 204 and a 205, half mechanical half biological, as well as 2 Marineland penguin 350s.

I've finally got my camera and here are some pictures.

y0 prime, here's a some pictures of my 75gallon housing 2 of my breeding pairs.














One of the pairs.







The other pair that just laid eggs as of last night, you can somewhat see the eggs directly under him. The female is behind the deco on the right.








Here's a picture of my Reverse Osmosis Filter bolted onto the stand of my 210 gallon tank. Using the blue hose, the filter pumps water into the first tank sitting directly next to the 210.








Now, here are a few pictures of the fry tanks. One of them is empty right now but one of my pairs just laid and fertilized another batch of eggs last night so I'll be putting those in there in a day or two.

This is the overall picture of the 4 tanks, it's kind of dark but you can still see the blue hose pumping water into the first tank, and on the fourth tank on the left side there is a mini overflow connected to a hose that drains into a 29gallon tank from which I use the water to do water changes on my other tanks, sometimes, right now I'm using the water to fill the 40 gallon tanks that I'm going to use as grow out tanks.








This is the 2nd tank, with not so many fry in there, the little orange dots are bbs. You can see the U tubes in the bank and the sponge filter as well.








Now, this is my main fry tank, the 1st one from where the fry in the 2nd tank came from. The pictures might be a little blurry, still getting used to the camera.




































Here's some random images:

This is my 20gallon long housing 20 still quite small baby rbps, little blurry.








This is the only survivor from the very first batch of eggs I had from my pairs. The cloudy eye isn't really cloudy, it's from the flash of the camera. 








This is the 40 gallons and the stand that I built for them, on the bottom right you can see the bbs hatcheries and the coffee grinder with some powdered food. At the top left you can see the ammonia i'm using in a 29 gallon tank to cycle some sponge filters. Behind the 40 gallons I have a dual 55 gallon stand, the bottom of which houses the 3 rbps that did not pair up in the 75gallon.















Well, feedback is always welcomed, share your opinions, drop some knowledge, it's all appreciated. Thanks, will update again soon.
StryfeMP


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## primetime3wise

very, very cool and informative, i appreciate the effort, gives me some ideas


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## StryfeMP

primetime3wise said:


> very, very cool and informative, i appreciate the effort, gives me some ideas


Thanks, I'm glad to be of some sort of help. 
_________________________________________________________________

I just realized that most of the fry that have died are not necesarilly malnutritioned, but they lack the appetite to eat, even though there is an abundance of food everywhere, even right in front of their faces. I've noticed that most of the deceased are malformed and did not swim correctly, I came to this conclusion by comparing the healthy fry to the malfored fry. The malformed fry, I believe, aren't meant to survive. I believe this is caused by inbreeding of rbp. I'm going to research more on the inbreeding of fish. If you've got some information about inbreeding, I have a seperate thread started or you could just reply here. Thanks.


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## StryfeMP

Death toll +23 +171 = 194 total deaths = 9.7%


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## StryfeMP

12:58am. Day 9.
I just got home from a wedding reception and I hadn't fed the fry in around 6-7 hours, before I left I made sure to put a bunch of food in there, but I guess it didn't help. Came home to 23 dead.
23 + 194 = 217 Fry Deaths.


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## StryfeMP

Day 9; 10:39am.

Found 27 dead this morning, making the total dead 244.

So, my microworm culture is finally taking off and there's a significant amount climbing the sides of the containers to be able to replace feedings of bbs. I fed them microworms first this morning and man did they jump on it, at first when I fed it to them at night time, I would hardly see them eat, or maybe it's because their stomachs were still so small; but this time around their stomachs were bulging after eating it, it was nice. But still, I put some bbs in there. I'm glad to have found a food that basically lasts for regenerates forever in supplement to the 'kinda gets expensive' bbs. =] I love microworms.


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## StryfeMP

I've got to add 7 to the death toll, brings it up to 251. Seems like I'm getting more and more dead, I don't know if it's me, the water params are excellent. I'm overfeeding but still keeping the tank clean, can't quite figure out why I'm having many die on me, the only thing I can think of is that the ones that are dying aren't eating, or aren't eating enough even though there's a lot of food in there for them. I know they aren't all meant to survive, but I wonder if I can get at least 70% survival rate. Deaths is at 12% as of now.


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## StryfeMP

Just fed the fry and they're looking really good, they're developing their tail fins nicely. I've just figured out what has added to the many deaths so far and I just now saw it watching my fish as I was cleaning the tank of the dead ones. The fry group up together kind of tightly and you really can't see what's under them. As I took a closer look at the fry, there was 1 or 2 that seemed just a little bigger then the rest that was eating one of the dead fry, looked like one of them was chewing it from the tail, it had it in its mouth. I unfortunately was not able to snap a picture of it, but it was amazing to see that even at such a young age, fry are cannibalistic.

Death toll + 7 = 258.

Here are some pictures of the fry, I'm still getting used to the camera, so please bare with me if the pictures aren't coming out too well.

































































And here is tank 3, now with eggs, not that many eggs, but still very good.


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## XSPhoto

Looking great, and I'm loving the extensive documentation!

even 70% is a lot of fish!!!!!!! if you've got 2000 initial, then that's 1400. You'd have to have a hell of a lot of tanks to grow all those out!


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## primetime3wise

great pics and great info...keep the updates coming on your quest


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## StryfeMP

Alright, 7:10pm and I found 9 dead, so that makes the total so far 267. Just fed them again and they are growing quick. I was watching the fry and the larger ones are trying to bite/nip at the smaller fish. It's crazy to watch cause you just see a bunch of fish darting everywhere, heh. Got some more pictures.

This picture is before the feeding, there was a bunch of fry following the lead of one fry trying to eat the dead fry.








Couple fry getting their eat on, on some microworms.








Tank 1 fry getting their eat on, on some bbs.








Pyramid! lol.


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## StryfeMP

XSPhoto said:


> great pics and great info...keep the updates coming on your quest


Thanks. I'll keep updating, I've got some more eggs now from one of my pairs, I put them into tank 3 after 2 days of letting them chill in the parent tank.


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## XSPhoto

If you go by the 1" fish per gallon rule (which for P's is way too little water anyways) You'd be able to stuff approx 478 1" RBPs in them. It'll be a trip my boy!


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## StryfeMP

I think I'll end up overstocking some tanks, but I'll figure it out when I get there. So today is day day 10, 11:43pm, I'm getting ready to feed them some bbs. Also, when I feed them bbs, I use a turkey baster with a 1/4inch hard tube that's connected to the mouth of the baster to take out the bbs from the bottles. I don't directly put it into the tank, I use a brine shrimp net over one of my waste tanks and rinse it with water from the fry tanks. Afterwards I just float the net into one of the tanks and syphon the bbs out of that and put it in the individual tanks. This way has worked wonders for me. Before I just used to put it in the tanks directly from the bbs hatcheries without rinsing, I believe this is one of the factors as to why I had so many batches go wrong in the past.
Deaths + 18 + 267 = 285


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## primetime3wise

XSPhoto said:


> If you go by the 1" fish per gallon rule (which for P's is way too little water anyways) You'd be able to stuff approx 478 1" RBPs in them. It'll be a trip my boy!


i think you can get away with waaayyyy more than that, for say, 1" rbps babies/juvis. take a look around on posts from people that have breed them here. perhaps, there might be a little more casualties, not sure, but its much more reasonable, imo.


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## StryfeMP

If I do end up with that much, I'm going to end up overstocking tanks, it should be fine though because they aren't going to stay in there for the rest of their lives, just a short amount of time until I rid of them.


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## StryfeMP

Day 10: 8:41pm

I just fed them microworms, finally produced enough to take over a feeding of bbs. It's a good thing because the 3 litter bottle I was using seemed to have gotten contaminated or maybe I didn't clean it well enough and it looks like it ruined the whole batch of bbs, smells pretty bad too. So even though I wasn't able to feed them bbs, fortunately I had enough microworms to feed them. I can't find my wire brush!!! Can't get the build up off of the sides of the bottle, going to end up throwing it away. Anyway, the fry are looking very well, I've found 27 dead today which makes the total 312. Cleaning the tank hasn't gotten any easier, it's still time consuming and gets my hands tired from squeezing and squeezing the turkey baster. The sponge filters I'm going to end up using has been in cycle since the 2nd of October in my 210 gallon tank housing my big reds. Hopefully they'll be ready by the time I put the fry into the first 40 gallon. I'm thinking of setting up an automatic water change system for my other tanks, but I'm moving out of here in 6 months and don't know if I should take the time and spend the money to do it. I think I'll just stick with water changes...


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## StryfeMP

Here's some pictures of the fry, day 10.


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## StryfeMP

Day 11; 2:06pm
Found 25 dead before feeding, I'm sure there's more that was eaten up by the fry but I didn't see it, so I guess it doesn't count, everything's approximations anyway. That makes the death toll equal out to 337 fry deaths. Alright, well the fry are still doing very well, eating real nice. Feeding them bbs with some microworms thrown in the mix, they love both. From my observations, there are a few small little fry in there, real thin ones that seem as though they aren't meant to survive. There are also the ones that are developing quite quickly, they've got the beginnings of the actual shape of a fish, I'll take some pictures if I can get a good shot at them. So, I realized that if you don't clean your hatchery enough, you can ruin a whole batch of bbs and f*ck your routine up.


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## StryfeMP

You can see the development of their tail fins, pectoral fins, and insides.


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## primetime3wise

nice pics. is that the bbs and/or microworms in their stomach? or is that the stomach itself? kinda gross being able to see inside em


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## StryfeMP

yea its gross and pretty cool at the same time. its actually a mix of bbs as well as microworms in the stomach, you can see the stomach as well as the food inside the stomach. I'm starting to feed them a mix of the two to kind of I guess round out their diet while their still young so it's not just straight bbs they're feeding on. I actually got a coffee grinder a week ago from my girl and I grinded up some sinking shrimp pellets, some koi pellets, and some tetramin tropical flakes all together. I've been putting in some of the mixture in the fry tanks every now and again, most of the fry eat it, some of them don't.

Death toll + 9 = 346


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## StryfeMP

The picture is a little blurry, but you can see a bigger fry eating a smaller fry. It's kinda cool, natural selection at its best.


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## XSPhoto

StryfeMP said:


> The picture is a little blurry, but you can see a bigger fry eating a smaller fry. It's kinda cool, natural selection at its best.
> View attachment 155518


Outstanding!


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## StryfeMP

Death toll +13 = 359

Here's a couple of pictures once again of the cannibalism of the young fry, the small one never had a chance.















Some pictures of the fry to show their development.


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## StryfeMP

Day 12th: 7:30pm

I just fed them decupsulated brine shrimp eggs and they love it. The decapsulated brine shrimp eggs are just bbs eggs but the shells have been taken off of them, also you can't hatch them like normal bbs eggs. I read that decapsulated bbs eggs keep all their nutritional value and then some because they dont get to hatch and use the energy in the hatching process. I am feeding the fry this along with microworms, although I am still hatching bbs. I've got another batch of eggs that is 2-3 days old now, they are just now developing eyes and are starting to move around more often. As usual the fry in tank 1 and 2 are developing quite well. Their tail fins are becoming more obvious and bigger. Most of the fry are also developing their dorsal fins now. Also, their pectoral fins are getting more developed as well. I've attached some pictues which hopefully shows what I am talking about.


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## XSPhoto

Man, I want some!

Your Fry are looking spectacular!


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## StryfeMP

Thanks. I believe it's mostly due to the automatic water changing using R/O water as well as the type of food I've been giving them. Other than the good water quality, I believe a big part of their good growth is because of the varied diet I've been providing for them; baby brine shrimp, microworms, decapsulated baby brine shrimp, and a mix of coffee grinded shrinking shrimp pellets, koi pellets, flake food, and sinking crawfish food. In about a week, I will be transferring them into a 40 gallon breeder tank and grow them out from there. By the time they are big enough I will be feeding them floating cichlid pellets, blood worms, and a few cut up pieces of fresh fish fillets. I'm thinking of putting together a make shift water change system for my 40 gallon breeder grow out tanks as well...


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## StryfeMP

Can't sleep. Just checked on them and found 9 dead, making the total dead 368. Honestly, I'm pretty sure that there are more dead from more developed fry eating the lesser developed ones, I see a bunch of fry with gray/white filled stomachs and from my observations conclude it to be because of them eating other fry. Hopefully once I transfer them I can actually count every single one, hopefully.


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## StryfeMP

Day 13th. 8:17am

My pairs are at it again. I notice that they like to breed right after a meal, this time I fed them catfish nuggets. From week to week I feed them a varied diet of tilapia fillets, raw shrimp w/ shell, and catfish nuggets. Most often than not, the 2 pairs in the 75gallon tank like to breed together, which leads me to believe that they release a pheromone in the water causing both pairs to do the do. I don't do any water changes until after they've bred and I've syphoned the eggs out. After I've syphoned the eggs out, I gravel vacuum the whole tank to rid of any left over eggs, dead fry, and detritous materials in the gravel. Most of the time this process replaces 50% of their water.

At this time I've found only 2 deaths, they've all seem to have achieved good growth to a point where they, when regular feedings are done, do not go starved. The fry are stronger now and I believe the deaths are from attacks of larger fry to smaller fry. I am in the process of heating up a 40gallon breeder tank for them to be transferred into. Once the tank is at the correct temperature, I will put in a sponge filter, a Lustar Hydro V Sponge Filter, to provide biological filtration as well as to provide the young fry with not so much water movement. At day 13, this makes the total dead 370 or based on the approximate count of 2000 is 18.5% so far. I will conclude the survival rate test once the fish have gotten to sellable size, dime size.

Also, to add onto the information, I before used Tetra EasyBalance Water Conditioner to add minerals and such back into the Reverse Osmosis water but stopped using it on day 5 without any ill effects on the fish. Using pure R/O water I believe, for the most part, is what's given me a high survival rate thus far.


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## ChilDawg

I think you need a calculator for the death toll--there's a couple of times where your addition is pretty wrong...also, how do you know there were 2000 fry exactly? It seems to me that you cannot make percentage calculations without knowing how many you started with...and I'm guessing you didn't count all of them. Best of luck though and thanks for an informative thread.


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## ChilDawg

Also, when you're writing these, maybe Death Toll *=* (Old Total) + (New Deaths) = (New Total) would be an apropos way of writing it...your equations otherwise look like you should be adding the death toll twice.

Posts 22 to 23: 217 dead plus another 27 should be 244, not 234.

Posts 25 to 28: 248 [sic, should be 258 at this point] dead plus 9 would have been 257, not 258. So, at this point, you should have been at 267, not 258, bringing your count to 9 fewer than it should have been by your observations.


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## StryfeMP

ChilDawg said:


> I think you need a calculator for the death toll--there's a couple of times where your addition is pretty wrong...also, how do you know there were 2000 fry exactly? It seems to me that you cannot make percentage calculations without knowing how many you started with...and I'm guessing you didn't count all of them. Best of luck though and thanks for an informative thread.


I didn't know exactly that there was 2000 to start with, it was only an approximation. I plan on counting the ones that survived up until now once I move them into a 40gal breeder from their 10gal. I think I explained it before, post 8 I believe counting from the first one, I said I 'guesstimated' the number of fry. Funny word.


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## StryfeMP

ChilDawg said:


> Also, when you're writing these, maybe Death Toll *=* (Old Total) + (New Deaths) = (New Total) would be an apropos way of writing it...your equations otherwise look like you should be adding the death toll twice.
> 
> Posts 22 to 23: 217 dead plus another 27 should be 244, not 234.
> 
> Posts 25 to 28: 248 [sic, should be 258 at this point] dead plus 9 would have been 257, not 258. So, at this point, you should have been at 267, not 258, bringing your count to 9 fewer than it should have been by your observations.


You're right, I should have written an equation to better document the way I was counting the dead fry. Also, thanks for the mathematical corrections, I always had a problem with double checking my numbers. I've gone ahead and edited the posts and added up all the numbers correctly. Wrote them down, used a calculator to check; they should be accurate. Once I count the number of fry I have now that I am transferring to the other tank, I'll add that number up with the amount dead and get still an approximate number of total fry, but a more accurate number because I can't account for the fry that were eaten up by the bigger fry. From then I can calculate a more accurate percentage of the total lost and total percentage of survivors. Once again, thanks.


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## StryfeMP

Day 13; 12:15pm

There are no deaths found to add to the death toll of 370. I'm happy of this fact, lets hope that the deaths decrease significantly from this point on. The 40 gallon tank is set up with sponge filter, air pump, and a 150watt heater. Once the temperature reaches 84F I will begin the transfer of the fry from the 2 10 gallons into the single 40gallon breeder. I will post pictures when finished.


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## StryfeMP

3:15pm

So, it took me like an hour and some change to count and put the fry into the 40 gallon breeder tank. Man, I will never do that again, it was so hard to count the little fry that I honestly was about to give up. I just used a bbs net to catch a bunch, count them, write it down, do it again, over and over again. So that's what I did and I found 7 dead fry and 2347 live fry, wo.0t. I can asure you that these numbers are not exact to every single one, because I'm pretty sure I missed some, but this is as accurate as I'm going to get. I'm not about to count every last one of them again, well, maybe when they've grown to dime size, then I'll do that, cause that will definately be a whole lot easier. I'm going to hook up an automatic water change feed to the 40 gallon as well, it'll be less work for me.

Death toll: 370 + 7 = 377
Live fry: 2347
Total Fry(includes dead): 2724
DT %: 13.83%
Survival Rate(Thus far): 86.17% (13 days)

Here's some pictures right before the transfer to show how they're developing.






















Full shot view of the 40 gallon breeder with Lustar Hydro V Sponge Filter








Some shots of the fry.


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## XSPhoto

That's a lot of fry! and you said that was only from one batch, correct???


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## StryfeMP

XSPhoto said:


> That's a lot of fry! and you said that was only from one batch, correct???


2 sets of eggs from the 2 pairs in my 75gallon. My main pair had significantly more eggs than the other pair. The eggs that came from the non-main pair were very little, im guessing on this, but what looked to be maybe a few hundred eggs, this is why I decided to put them together. But in all honesty, it's really hard to count eggs.

____________________________________________________________________

I just fed them, its awesome seeing that many swim around in the 40gal breeder. Hopefully their numbers will last. I was cleaning their tank and found 4 to be dead. So, the total deaths comes up to 381 fry.


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## Fry

You are doing an outstanding job!There is 1 method I have been thinking about for raising fry that you may or may not be interested in.
Using a powerhead with air intake on the tip,but instead of air.I was thinking of hooking it directly to the fry tank that would be level with the parent tank with a sponge filter on the end(fry tank).and using a gravity fed siphon tube between the 2.This would ensure 0 nitrates and nitrites in the fry tank providing this system would work.It would also decrease water changes and any differences in water parameters that may add stress/shock to the fry.No doubt you are doing an excellent job with the young.I know how sensitive they are, your success rate is nothing short of outstanding! keep up the good work!


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## StryfeMP

I imagined the method you described and in theory it should work, so long as the powerhead is not so strong that it sucks fry to the sponge filter. Actually, I believe that's something that definately do-able. I actually like that idea because there's no difference in water parameters from the parent tank to the fry tank, since it's circulating between the two. Excellent idea.

Thanks, I appreciate that greatly. But honestly, I believe I have such a good success rate so far is because I don't use parent tank water at all. I began by syphoning the eggs out of the parent tank and then from there utilizing a turkey baster I took the eggs, already developed with tails, into their respective 10gallon tanks. At first I began with pure R/O water and used Tetra EasyBalance in order to replace the trace minerals and minerals lost during the r/o filtration process. But for some reason I stopped using it and haven't noticed any ill effects. So now, I'm just using pure r/o water. Credit goes out to CROSSHAIR223 for sharing with me the idea of using R/O water for the fry.

A few minutes earlier I built another makeshift overflow for the 40gallon breeder the fry are in. Also, I T'd the output of the reverse osmosis filter so that it pumps water, quite slowly, but surely, into the 10gallon setups, plus the 40gallon breeder. I find this automatic water change system is working wonders, as you can see.

Forgot to add the pictures. No new deaths since the move to the 40gallon breeder/grow out. The pictures show their development still; there are many of them who are showing the development of the black bar right before their tail fin. Wonderful.


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## StryfeMP

Day 14, 2 weeks into it.

Excellent growth, they can now go for longer without feedings, although I think their eating all the smaller ones. But I still feed them on a regular basis, now only about 3 to 4 times a day. When they were younger I fed them anytime I saw one with an empty stomach. Rearing fry certainly does take up a lot of work, time, and effort. But to see those little eggs with their teeny tiny tails popping out go from that egg into growing into a fish is well worth it, probably more so for me bacause they're rbps; and I love these fish. I forgot where I was going with this post, so I'll just post up the death toll.

Death toll totals 377 from yesterday, I found 8 dead today, making the totals for today or so far for today 385 fry deaths.


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## primetime3wise

good stuff, thanks, and keep it comin', will help me immensely if/when mine breed.


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## StryfeMP

Day 15

Sad to say that I've been neglecting the tank a little bit and missed a feeding and a water change, did 50% water change earlier and while cleaning the tank I found 73 dead fry. So, that makes the death to go from 385 to 458. As for the automatic water change system for the 40gallon tank, I found that the reverse osmosis doens't pump out much water to really make a big difference in keeping the water params in check. Also, I have a feeling that my sponge filter isn't seeded too well yet. I'll be posting up some pictures a little later, feeling kind of sick.


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## StryfeMP

Day 17

Alright, so I did a water change today on the 40 gallon, 50%. Syphoned and cleaned out the dead fry, there were 33 which makes the totals dead so far 458 + 33 = 491. I look back when I syphoned the eggs from the parent tank and never even fathomed that there could be that many eggs in there, its amazing, I only figured there would be some few hundred in there. Well, they are doing really well, I'm feeding them decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, microworms, and ground up brine shrimp cubes. They are developing nicely. As for the reverse osmosis automatic water change system, I've decided to only use it on the 10gallon egg-fry tanks solely, I'm thinking of adding more 10gallons to the setup though. A lot of people believe that you can't come out with a good survival rate using 10 gallon tanks, but I beg to differ. As long as the water is kept clean and the params in check, most of the fry can and would survive; given that they don't go hungry. The R/O system given my water pressure only pumps out about a gallon an hour, a quarter of its rated output, which is 100gallons a day. Later on, more than likely when I move, I will put in the money to purchase a pump to boost the pressure for the r/o system. I've had a lot of deaths since the move to the 40 gallon and am wondering if I would have encountered this many if I had left them in the 10 gallon... I know this seems to be too many fry for that little water, but in all honesty they were fine in there, and they didn't have to look for food as hard. With them being in the 40 gallon, they do not act any differently, but I've found that they often like to bite and chase other fry even more given the extra room. But again, they are developing quite well and are eating well. Here are some pictures.


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## XSPhoto

are you using any aeration/surface adgitation in the tank to keep the 02 levels in the tank up? I would imagine that you wouldn't be getting nearly the same as you had been in the 10gal tanks which could possibly contribute to the death rate.

it's all stipulation though.


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## StryfeMP

Within the lustar hydro sponge filter there is a space where an air diffuser or an air stone can be connected, I've done that and believe that there is more than enough air pumping into the sponge filter to put enough oxygen in the water for the fry. I'm using a whisper 40 on 1 lustar hydro V sponge filter w/ air diffuser. Unfortunately I don't have any way of testing the oxygen levels of the water, but thats definately an interesting stipulation; now I want a piece of equipment to test o2 levels, lol.


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## StryfeMP

bump

lol


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## StryfeMP

Day 18.

So, I'm a little intoxicated and it's about 3:20am. I just fed the fish some decapsulated brine shrimp eggs and they are doing really well. I've got 7 to add to the death toll, which adds up the totals to 498. its alright, hopefully I end up with at least 70% live. I got my order of brine shrimp eggs from brineshrimpdirect.com, great prices on there, check them out. I bought the Grade A, 80% hatch out minimum bbs eggs. I'm planning to purchase some bbs hatching cones and stand to add to my breeding setup. What I want is to be able to create a setup that can take fresh eggs, well from eggs, into dime size and be able to sell them wholesale or at the least get store credit in order to build more breeding setups in order to breed other fish, such as discus; I like those fish as well and am seriously thinking about breeding them.


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## ...Jay...

Your doing a hell of a job man. Keep it up, and the picture heavy updates are sweet!

A little tip on photos is to resize them yourself in paint then crop, save, and then upload. Right now they are over shrunkin, and if you click them, they are to big. If you have trouble check the photography section, or pm me, and I'll walk you through it. I suck at photography, but resizing is easy to do.

This is what I made some of your pictures look like, doing that.


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## ...Jay...

Oh and I'd keep that lone survivor from your first batch. Just think, hes the only one to make it out of over 1000. Thats gansta. He must be a hardy fish, with good genes. Hes earned his right to be takin care of.


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## StryfeMP

Jayson745 said:


> Your doing a hell of a job man. Keep it up, and the picture heavy updates are sweet!
> 
> A little tip on photos is to resize them yourself in paint then crop, save, and then upload. Right now they are over shrunkin, and if you click them, they are to big. If you have trouble check the photography section, or pm me, and I'll walk you through it. I suck at photography, but resizing is easy to do.
> 
> This is what I made some of your pictures look like, doing that.
> 
> View attachment 156023
> 
> View attachment 156024
> 
> View attachment 156025


I liked what you did with them, they look good. From now on I'll try and resize them for maximum excellence! lol, or at least I'll try, thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it.


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## StryfeMP

Day 19

I've been having a hard time keeping the water clean in the 40 gallon breeder and the deaths I've got to log tonight show it. After doing a water change and cleaning up the crap at the bottom of the tank I found 196 dead fry, a crap load of them. When I first started out with my very first batch of eggs, I used a ten gallon with a penguin 200 hob biowheel filter, it worked for a while until most of the fry got sucked up by it. Then I tried a 40 gallon with the same hob filter and again, they got sucked up by it. But, I figured earlier that these fry aren't as young as those that started as eggs with the hob filter and I decided to put one onto the 40gallon breeder. So far so good, they are strong enough to fight and swim away from the suction of the filter. I saw a few of them get stuck on the strainer, but were strong enough to break away from the suction and swim free. When they were young they could not do this, the suction was just way too strong. I believe this is going to add a great deal of help in keeping this 40gal clean proving mechanical as well as boosting the biological filtration. On another note, I've been having crappy success with hatching fresh baby brine shrimp, it just seems that they aren't hatching at all anymore, only a small amount of eggs are hatching and my hatcheries are emitting a foul odor. Could it be that my hatcheries are contaminated with something? I rinse them out with hot water every time I harvest and do another batch of bbs eggs. I think I'm going to end up getting some hatching cones sooner rather than later.

694 total dead.


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## StryfeMP

I just computed the numbers and I'm at 75% survival rate so far, day 19. Unfortunately I don't believe I'm going to end up with the 70% survival rate that I was aiming for. I believe that one of the major things that made my survival rate go down was the transfer of the fry from the 10 gallon into the 40gallon tank. I know that they could have gone a lot longer in the 10 gallon tank that they were in and the deaths would not have been so much compared to now. Well, you live and you learn, that's why I love this hobby, it's a never ending learning experience.


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## primetime3wise

i can see that, about the survival rate, we're talking about fish that are aggressive and territorial, probably even to a smaller degree, when fry, but still, maybe a larger tank from the start would have worked better, as far as cannibalism.

great work! keep it comin'


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## StryfeMP

Ok, so I figured that the fry were strong enough to fight the suction of the hob filter but to my realiazition when I looked at the strainer that a lot of the smaller not so strong fry got sucked up to it and ended up dying. So, I wasn't totally completely right on thinking it was going to work. Now, it definately seems like all of them are the bigger ones compared to the ones that died. I know in nature that not all of the eggs are supposed to make it, and quite unfortunately 86 fry died this time; to make myself feel better I like to think of it as the hob filter acting to impose "natural selection" because it was the weak ones that died. Not so natural culling of the weak. The death rate adds up to 780. I'll update more later, I've got an exam to study and take in the next hour.


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## XSPhoto

haha, i started to think "Natural Selection" when i was reading the post, but seems like you've already got it covered. if you're worried about deaths due to the HOB, then why not cover the intake with sponge?


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## StryfeMP

2:46AM Day 20

I think I should've just covered the intake with a sponge filter. I took out the hob filter before I'd left and I came home to 307 dead fry. >>=[
I know it wasn't because of the filter. It was because I wasn't able to feed them for about 10 hours because I was out studying for exams, taking exams, and then handing out candy for halloween.

This many dead killed my percentage hard. So, totalling everything up, 780 + 307 from today = 1087! Its upsetting. =\ I'm sad. =[

Total Fry(includes dead): 2724
Dead so far: 1087
__________________
39.9% Dead

My goal has been shot, my fault of course. Water quality and feeding are the two MAJOR things that contribute to the success of the fry, this I've learned the hard way. Also, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs is no replacement for freshly hatched baby brine shrimp. Microworms are a great food for fry, also because as long as you take care of the culture, it is basically a never ending supply of food for fry. I've learned that there is no better food for fry than freshly hatched baby brine shrimp.

My pairs are breeding again and I hope to have a new batch tomorow. Also, I've got 2 batches each in their own 10gallon already free swimming. I hope to have a sort of recirculating setup going on, from fresh eggs to dime sized.


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## StryfeMP

Man, this is so disappointing. I woke up and looked in the tank and said OMFG, not literally, but I thought it; the bottom of the tank was covered with dead fry, hundreds probably. I'm not even able to keep track of how many dead there were, there was just so many. Now I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that at least half of the fry are dead. This project started out great and I've learned a lot. Unless you really have the time to spend on taking care of the fry, you really aren't going to be able to get more than a few hundred to survive, more or less. Man, I'm speechless, I really don't know what to log anymore. I'm not going to be able to count the fry until they are dime sized, so I'll just wait until then to mess around with numbers again. My goal of having a high survival rate wasn't much of a success as of now, just got caught up in bullshit and wasn't able to take care of them. I'm still having fun and my breeders are still pumping out batches so I'm not too bummed about it, but it definately f*cking sucks. One of the best things that I've learned how to set up is an automatic water changing system and I believe there is nothing better than to totally get rid of manually changing the water, all you've got to do is syphon the bottom of the tank, if its bare bottom, and clean up the poo. I'll update later with pictures.


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## StryfeMP

Day 23

Haven't been getting too many deaths in the last few days, the fry that are left are doing great. They are able to handle the water changes using conditioned tap water; I use prime. They are eating well. The stomachs of some if not most of them are starting to turn silver, so maybe in the next week or so I'll be able to feed them bloodworms. I've got some pictures to update with, don't really have much to say at the moment.


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## StryfeMP

Day 25: 8:05pm

Hasn't much has changed in the past couple of days, they are still eating well, doing normal water changes every couple of days, 50%. The sponge filter that I have is working great, it definately works a lot better than the ones I'm currently using in the 10 gallons. I believe the square ones I have in the 10 gallons are working alright is because the water is being constantly changed and it doesn't need to work as hard because there's no large build up of ammonia or nitrites. I forgot my camera at a friends house so I don't have any pictures to update with. But from the look of them, they are developing nicely, most of them now have silvery stomachs, they're beginning to look like miniature red belly piranhas. One of the hardest things that I've come accross throughout this whole grow is the constant hatching of baby brine shrimp. I've still yet to figure out exactly what I need to hatch, even though I'm hatching 2 grams of bbs per glass vase, I'm only able to feed from it once or twice; I think I need to get me some feed for the bbs to eat, so they will last for longer. I'm thinking of making a salt water tank just for brine shrimp, so it's continually alive and producing, I still don't know though. I'm thinking of just buying some bbs food that will also enrich the bbs with essential fats and amino acids. Honestly, if I didn't have the microworms, I think a lot of my fry would have died. I mean, a lot of them ended up dying anyway, but they definately made it through the first 2 and almost 3 weeks. It was my fault that that many died, I just stressed them out too hard with water changes with colder water than what was in the tank, and just neglect, missing feedings and such. That's all I've got for now, will update with pictures later on. One thing for sure is this is still a learning experience for myself, I love this hobby.


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## StryfeMP

Day 27

So, about each day I find the same if not less amount of dead floating around in the corner of the tank. Taking a closer look, most if not all of them are missing both eyes. Also, watching the frys behavior, seeing them swim that close to one another, the first thing that they attack are the eyes of the other, It's quite a sight to see. I believe that there are many deaths to be explained by this behavior, the fry with the missing eye, or both missing eyes will/would eventually die. To test is they were developed enough to eat bloodworms earlier, I dropped a cube into the tank; it seems that all of the larger of the fry did in fact eat the bloodworms, but the smaller though were not able to eat them, although they were trying to bite it, definately showing interest in the new food. I'm still feeding them freshly hatched baby brine shrimp at times, but most of the time I am feeding them decapsulated bbs eggs as well as coffee grinded koi pellets, I have 6 koi so these were on hand.


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## StryfeMP

Day 30.

Not much change, most of them are now eating bloodworms. I can now tell the difference between the ones who are going to outgrow the rest and in a few weeks I will seperate these in an attempt at another project later on. I'd say there are only a few hundred left in there, definately doesn't look as many as there were earier in the process. So much for a high survival rate eh? Here are some pictures as an update. Enjoy.


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## repticland

wow amazing pics wish my piranhas would lay eggs


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## StryfeMP

Day 32

I was just watching the fry swim around and they're all looking pretty good. My goal of getting a high survival rate from this batch is shot, I'm only guesstimating but from my observations there seems to be only a few hundred in there now. Still, I am not too disappointed because this is by far the most I've had survive from any of my batches from before. I've also gained more experience through this batch and have refined my style of feeding with microworms and baby brine shrimp. I'll update with pictures later.


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## StryfeMP

Day 33

Here are some pictures.

Just a fry.








A couple of fry battling it out for a bloodworm. lol, it was sick watching them try to yank it from each others mouths.








A couple of pictures of fry eating a bloodworm.


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## repticland

great pics do your babys have sharp teeth yet


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## StryfeMP

repticland said:


> great pics do your babys have sharp teeth yet


Honestly, I have no idea, their mouths are still small so I can't really tell if they've got sharp teeth or not. I'm sure that the bigger ones have developed pretty sharp teeth. Most of the fry are able to eat the bloodworms, not whole, so I'm guessing that yea, they have some sort of teeth development.


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## repticland

its funny most people think pupys are cute i think baby piranhas are.


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## StryfeMP

repticland said:


> its funny most people think pupys are cute i think baby piranhas are.


lol. I don't think piranhas are cute but I do love their looks.


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## StryfeMP

Day 40.

A few of them have reached dime sized but most of them are still a little smaller than. They are still in the 40 gallon tank and every day I'm seeing more and more little ones getting eaten up, a lot of half eaten dead bodies floating in corner of the tank. I've been feeding them crushed up pellets and they do eat it, but I believe that even though they are eating it, not all of them are satisfied with it and end up killing the smaller ones. I'll be getting some more bloodworms today, they love the stuff and I run out quick. They're all looking really well and hopefully I come out with a few hundred at least, a big drop from the high survival rate I was trying first to achieve; it's all a learning process. One of my pairs have laid another batch of eggs, bright orange and really healthy looking, I'll definately get a lot out of this one.

Anyone know of a 6 week old live fry food that replenishes itself like microworms are to fresh fry?


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## StryfeMP

Day 42.

They've grown quite a bit and are now reaching dime size, some are still small. I wonder if they aren't getting enough food? But yea, I started feeding them ground up shrimp and koi pellet mix to break it down into bite sized pieces for the small fishies, they love the stuff and eat it up rather quickly. I'm still looking for a replenisheable food for the small fish...


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## StryfeMP

Day 49.

They're still growing, I had around 8 that were growing rather quicker than everyone else, so I had to seperate them and put them into little breeder things in order to let the other ones catch up and not get bullied, working good so far. Here are some pictures of them feeding, not too good cause they're rather quick swimming around and I'm still learning my camera.
Ok well the size of the pictures are not enabling me to upload them so I'll take some other pictuers a little later.


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## StryfeMP

58th Day.

This will be the last post in this documentation of this batch of fry. I have done a pretty alright job with raising these guys. As of now, there are only 225 survivors that are between nickel to quarter sized and some runts that are still dime sized. They are mostly between nickel and quarter size but are easily getting bigger. I'm still feeding them bloodworms, ground up shrimp, and ground pellets. I made a lot of careless mistakes with these guys and the high survival rate that I was hoping for wasn't achieved by myself. So, on to the next batch and hopefully I can get more and more and more to survive later enabling me to have higher survival rates. I've seperated the batch in half in 2 40gallon breeders to give them more room, theres about a hundred+ in each 40gal. I'm cleaning my 150gallon of koi and they will soon be moved to this tank for further growing out. Here are some pictures, thanks all for joining me on this.


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## AJerman

I know this topic is 10 days old, but I wanted to post and thank you for showing the entire process. It was fascinating to me to see the process from the very start. Even if you didn't get as many as you wanted, it still looks like you came out with a very good number of fish. I'd never seen the entire hatching process before.


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## StryfeMP

AJerman said:


> I know this topic is 10 days old, but I wanted to post and thank you for showing the entire process. It was fascinating to me to see the process from the very start. Even if you didn't get as many as you wanted, it still looks like you came out with a very good number of fish. I'd never seen the entire hatching process before.


Well thank you, and happy holidays to you. And yea, even though I didn't get the high survival rate I was going for I still wound up with hundreds of fish. Thanks for going through the thread and I'm glad that you enjoyed it, that's why I logged my experience so that others may benefit from it some way.


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## primetime3wise

StryfeMP said:


> I know this topic is 10 days old, but I wanted to post and thank you for showing the entire process. It was fascinating to me to see the process from the very start. Even if you didn't get as many as you wanted, it still looks like you came out with a very good number of fish. I'd never seen the entire hatching process before.


Well thank you, and happy holidays to you. And yea, even though I didn't get the high survival rate I was going for I still wound up with hundreds of fish. Thanks for going through the thread and I'm glad that you enjoyed it, that's why I logged my experience so that others may benefit from it some way.
[/quote]

yea good stuff, Stryfe. thx for logging all that.

what do you think were your major (or minor) mistakes that you made? i noted much of what you wrote, but i'm just asking so hopefully i can learn from it.

i also think you may have been right about my very first batch, with the tank not being cycled properly. i did lose the majority in my first batch within 2-3 days, not much since. also, very few losses from the second batch on which i did a better job of kick-starting the cycling process.


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## StryfeMP

I know this is an old question but I thought I'd answer it anyway, just in case someone comes across this thread wanting to learn something. Major mistake was moving the fish into a grow out tank way too early, of course I didn't know that before, but from this grow I learned that moving them into a much bigger tank while they're still quite small is a no go and in doing so I had many die because they couldn't find the food and being thrown into a completely different water situation stressed out the young fish so much that they died; they were coming from r/o water straight into tap. I've learned to mix it up and slowly wean them onto treated tap. Minor mistake was missing feedings, lost some because they went hungry. Also, using a product called tetra easybalance to add back the minerals that the r/o filter took out. I think that's it, good day.


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## pirayaman

wow man ive bin captivated by this post you really did a great job of documenting this breeding wow

youve inspired me to buy some reds and try for my self thank you really


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## StryfeMP

pirayaman said:


> wow man ive bin captivated by this post you really did a great job of documenting this breeding wow
> 
> youve inspired me to buy some reds and try for my self thank you really


I'm glad. Some advice though, if you're going to get into breeding reds, do it for the fun and joy of it because in all actuality, there isn't much money to be made from them. You'll end up just breaking even, maybe end up with a little profit depending on how much you sell them for, definitely not enough to make a living, lol.


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## RICARDO

you may not think you had alot of servivers but man 225 is alt to reach dime size good job this does take time and dedication for survival and ur right if it is not fun for you dont get into breeding and like in my case lack of space is a bigg deal i love the set ups you made your lucky for the space you have great job stryfemp here is apic of my babys from today sorry blury


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## StryfeMP

thanks, yea I got the basement so I've got some room to play with tanks and what not. Your fish look good, they look nice and full in that picture. I'm going to end up with a sh*t load of survivors this time around >>=]~ hopefully make some money to get some more discus.


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## Abshere

Loved reading your thread. Really showed me that there is a heck of a lot of time that would have to be put into breeding reds. I just got 2 reds as babies and was toying with the idea that once that they are ready to breed, that I would try it out. However, I now understand the large amount of work and time. Hope to follow along with your next batch, if you plan on making a journal for it again.


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## Sacrifice

This thread is so old that when I loaded it dust flew out of my monitor.


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## BRUNER247

I noticed some of the pics show Barebottom tank n it looks nasty. IMO a good hob filter would have increased his survival rate.at very least his tank would have been a lot cleaner.


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## Abshere

I think I commented on the wrong one here. Oops. lol


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## Dairy Whip

Good job man!!! pictures and fish look awesome


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