# Algae



## dopper3 (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi. I have a 30g planted tank. I have a Nutrafin CO2 system in there with 1.33wpg of light. I seem to have alot of algae. There are two kinds that I have in the pictures below and i have no idea what they are. I have tried phosphate remover inserts for my filter (as recommended by my lfs) and i have 4 algae eating shrimp and 2 regular algae eaters. Not plecos, but the type found atthis page. Here are pics of the two types of algae with a pic of my whole tank. If you have any suggestions, let me know.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Welcome to the world of planted aquaiums!

You have a nice case of BBA! (black brush algea)

Contrary to what your lfs and what some ppl will say, you need to keep your phosphates @ .5 to 2.0ppm consistently in your tank.

Your nitrates must be anywhere from 5 to 20ppm.

CO2 should be somewhere around 30ppm if you are running it--check HERE.

Also, you need micronutrients found in something like Flourish comprehensive.

Honestly, at that wpg, you don't need CO2. You look like you have a nutrient imbalance of some sort. You also needd to keep up with your 50% weekly water changes. Phisically remove all algea and start feeding your plants better. Your plants also loog very leggy, meaning they are starved of light.
Hope this helps


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

I suggest you do some water chemistry tests for all the above that DiPpY eGgS mentioned.
After that post your readings in order to understand the problem


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Yes Dopper3,

You have some Black beard algae (genus Compsogon) there. It belongs to a larger algae group called Red algae (Rhodophyta). It is not actually Black brush algae (genus Audouinella). That one is also a Red algae species, but it looks more like a shaving brush upside down.

The special properties of those algea are that they grow well with blue light section of visible light. Especially in conditions where green algae suffers. For example, if you use fluorescent bulbs specially meant for aquatic photosynthesis. They emit strong red and blue ligth, but very little yeallow-green light. Because of the lack of yellow-green light, the green algae (Chlorophyta and Charophyta) and blue green bacteria (Cyanophyta) will suffer. This way they make way to the red algae and sometimes also for brownish golden algae (Chrysophyta) and diatoms (Bacillariophyta).

Also a good thing to remember is that they do well in low light environment and can even live periods without ligth (black out periods of 3 days).

It is widely said that Siamese algae eater (Chrossocheilus siamensis) can take of this red algae.

As for the water parameters, these algae like high nitrate and phosphate concentrations and can handle slightly acidic water too.

BTW. I would not recommend water changes of 50 % per week. It is so much that you cannot control any water parameters any more. Plus that almost all added fertilization is lost that way too.

Regards,


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Harrykaa

All due respect.. Please read THIS. This is the estimative index fertilization method that I use, and has worked outstanding for me for the past year.

In fact it has worked so well, that I gave tons of plants away, as well as sold over $250.00 worth over aquabid.com.

slightly acidic water with 2ppm phosphates, and 20ppm nitrate is awesome for your plants. the key that you will find in that read I provided for you above is that *healthy, feeding plants will grow, and outcompete algea. *The extimative index is super simple and makes planted aquariums less scientific and more fun for the average hobbyist.

Doing 50% water changes every week cuts the excess nutrients. Just add more. I get my ferts super cheap @ www.gregwatson.com


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> 1) Slightly acidic water with 2ppm phosphates, and 20ppm nitrate is awesome for your plants. the key that you will find in that read I provided for you above is that healthy, feeding plants will grow, and outcompete algea.
> 2) Doing 50% water changes every week cuts the excess nutrients. Just add more. I get my ferts super cheap @ www.gregwatson.com


DiPpY eGgS,

1)
Well I also think that slightly acidic water is a good way to prevent algae, and as much PO4 and NO3 as higher plants can handle. That is OK.

I do not know the water parameters of dopper3, but it seems that he does not have a heavily planted tank nor has he a high lighting there.

But sure OK if he adds more light and plants.

2)
That 50 % water changes is what I doubt more.
First of all I have a 150 gallon tank. Changing 75 gallons per week is a bit too costly. Then the ammonia and chlorine that is added to tap water becomes a problem. Water plant add NH3 in order to kill bacteria and also to prevent excess corrosion of plumbing.
And then there is the pH. My tap water is pH 8.2 and not suitable for Pygos.

In a 30 gallon tank this problem is not a big one of course.

Regards,


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

get a python for your 150g

no ammonia in my tap water. I hope there is none in your either









There are chlorine removers on the market that are fine to use. I have been doing 50% water changes with absolutely no problems at all. As a matter of fact, I never heard of anyone having issues with doing weekly 50% water changes.. you are the first to poo poo it.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> no ammonia in my tap water. I hope there is none in your either.


Here are the figures of my municipal tap water (report from water plant in Helsinki, Finland):
- pH from waterworks 8.6 and at end users 8.0-8.5.
- GH 3.0 dH
- KH 1.8 dH
- NH3 23 ppm (mg/l) from waterworks.

It is to be noted that in Helsinki NH3 and Cl is added in order to kill bacteria and in order to prevent plumbing corrosion.

I use regularly AquaSafe for Cl and ToruMin for general health fro my Pygos.
I also have an efficent external filter (Eheim Pro III) to handle the NH3.
Changing 75 gallons of water per week would upset my water parameters.

Anyway, good growth of plants without algae is not an easy task with big Pygos.

Regards,


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

Thats dumb that they add NH3 to the water to control bacteria. There are plenty of bacteria that love the presensce of NH3. Here they add PO4 to the tap water to prevent corrosion. Which is nice, with my set up, because I rarely have to add phosphate to my tank for my plants


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## dopper3 (Sep 5, 2004)

Gumby said:


> Thats dumb that they add NH3 to the water to control bacteria. There are plenty of bacteria that love the presensce of NH3. Here they add PO4 to the tap water to prevent corrosion. Which is nice, with my set up, because I rarely have to add phosphate to my tank for my plants


I have a few questions about what you said... First, you say that you rarely have to add phosphate to your tank for your plant growth... I have an algae issue and my lfs told me to get a phosphate remover insert to prevent algae growth... I have inserted this filter, it doens't seem to be doing much. However, i have noticed my plants stopped growing alot like they did before i had that phosphate insert... Is phosphate good for plant growth?

Also, from one of hte other replies to this post, someone mentionned that i didn't have a heavily planted tank so my plants aren't using up all the nutrients and so the algae is thriving... does this mean if i put alot more plants in my tank that they will starve the algae and do ok?


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## dc2rtek (Oct 27, 2005)

no idea...


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

dopper3 said:


> Is phosphate good for plant growth?
> 
> Also, from one of hte other replies to this post, someone mentionned that i didn't have a heavily planted tank so my plants aren't using up all the nutrients and so the algae is thriving... does this mean if i put alot more plants in my tank that they will starve the algae and do ok?


Dopper3,

Yes plants need phosphates and they need nitrates (or ammonia) to build up their structures.
The problem in a tank is almost always that there is overabundance of both of these nutrients. Abd this is where the algae growth is accelerated up to their blooming.

Phosphates in the water is the most common reason for eutrophication. In a tank this means algae. Also some higher plants will grow better; those that are fast growing. Slow growing species only suffer, because algae on the leaves suffogate them.

In an ideal situation, in a heavily planted tank, with a small number of fishes and scarce feedings, the fast growing plants can use up almost all the phosphates and thus make the algae suffer.

Regards,


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

Check out this site, good description of BBA and how to treat it.



dc2rtek said:


> no idea...


Good answer! Please don't just post to add to your post count.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

harry--I like the tap water, very soft, and you don't have to add nitrates for a couple days.. do you buffer it a bit with Ca and Mg? You probably go through a ton of CO2 with that pH.. I dunno, no experience with it.

But if you read the link I put in the post for you, the new breed of planted aquarium hobbyist is told through many experiments that higher phosphates is better than too low phosphates, and the low side causes more problems than the high.

What you are saying is considered the 'old' way and is obsolete according to the Barr report, (estimative index) and www.aquaticplantcentral.com. They both say the opposite of what you are saying with the phosphates, or am I not understanding you properly?

The going theory is .5 is the lowest Phos should ever get, and 2-3 should be right around the highest. The water change is for the taking away of the concentrations built up from the higher dosing during the week, and to 'reset' the tank. They say that starving your plants makes them more at risk of getting algea than over feeding them. Although too much overfeeding is an issue, thus the 50% weekly water change.

I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong, or does not work for you, I am just telling you --check it out of you want.

Can you post some pics of your setup?


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS,

Thank you for your reply.
This is very interesting, I have been struggling with algae issue in a Pygo tank for about a year now. Starting when they were 1" and coming up to this day when they are 8".

But hey, in order not to steal dopper3's thread I suggest i make another thread about this topic. Please reply to my thoughts there: _Algae and plants in a Pygo tank._

Regards,


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