# Dying piraya



## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I recieved 8 piraya that were pretty sick... Got a great deal on them... They had something called argulus... That is a fish lice... I have cured the fish of the lice... Done a substancial water change... Now they appear to be dying daily...

The fish float to the top first.. Then they appear to get disorientated... Because of disorientation the other piraya attach the weaker... I sepparated the weakest last night, into a 55 gallon... This fish appeared fine... When I came home on my lunch break he was dead... Now there are 2 fish floating near the top... You may not belive the but one appears cross-eyed... The pupil isn't in it's proper alignment... the fish appear to be getting weaker and weaker.... I plan on removing the 5 that appear to be strong and putting in a 55 gallon...Please no rips about putting 5 piraya in a 55 gallon, that's all I have free....

I have checked all water properties in the tank they are dying in... Ph, nitrite, nitrate, phosphorus,copper,and of course amonia... Nothing is close to dangerous... What could these fish have?????

The first fish I saw prior to my purchasing the fish died the same way... I assumed it was poison from the fish lice...The fish had a good 40 lice a piece... I see no visible lice anymore... But the fish continue to lose streangth and eventually die... I don't want to lose all 8... Please help me..


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Dam that sucks SC...I wish I could help with some input but I dont know why they are dying......







Hopefully they will pull right through it


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

im really sorry to hear this but with your dead piraya, examine it, and you might have to do a little ahh-top-see(dunno how to spell it but i'll sound it out). when i was looking for what was killing my feeders, i found worms that went in the internal organs and killed off the host and exited the body. ask the person you traded the p's if there was anything more wrong with em


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

What was used to treat for argulus? Did you use diflubenzuron (Anchors-Away, Dimilin) or an organophosphate (Clout)? The symptoms seem like it could possibly be caused by some type of water contamination. Using Clout (basically a pesticide) to treat for argulus can cause a similar reaction to what you have described. Anyone spray anything around the house or near the tank? I would do a major water change (50% and make sure temp and pH match as close as possible), add a fresh bag of activated carbon, and increase aeration. Good Luck.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I did use a product with diflubenzuron in it... I couldn't find the Anchors away... But jungle has a product called parasite guard... No copper or sulfates in it... It was very mild... The container said use half dose on pirnahas, and watch for 6 days... After 6 days do a 25% water change treat again @ half dose.... I gave the piraya the 1 st treatment, and second treatment... 2 days later I did a 50% water change and replaced all filter media....
If has been 4 days and fish appear to be getting very sick... there were none of these symptoms when I had the parasite guard in the tank...The big kicker is I saw a fish die the same way prior to my purchase and treatment of the fish???


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Damn!!!! Lost another... 2 piraya in 24 hours.... That sucks.... I put 4 in another tank, and they seem ok so far


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## sundrop (Oct 9, 2003)

Guess it wasnt a good deal afterall,sorry to hear them dying.....


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

sh*t man, try the basics of treating any illness; the rising of temp and adding aquarium salt. This would treat simple illnesses but not sure about yours, looks too advanced to me.

I hope the rest will hold strong and make it through it.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

sh*t man, I have no suggestions other than loads of water changes - and check your tap water supply, even phonr the water board to ask if they have done anything new in your area


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Are you sure you dont have high ammonia or nitrites?


> 2 days later I did a 50% water change and replaced all filter media....


I dont see how your tank could be cycled if you changed all the media? I wonder if it is a combination of being weakened by the medication and then cycling the tank. 
Sorry to hear about you fish.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

That could be a possiblity Gross Quirk... I had n o choice but to remove all the gravel... I heard the lice can lay eggs in the gravel... I didn't want a reinfestation so all gravel was removed prior to introducing the fish...

I got 4 set up in the 55 gallon they seam active and eating today.... I'm gonna move the other 2 now... I hope to god I don't lose any more... Piraya is my favorite piranha...









My ultimate goal is to induce spawning in piraya and be successful... If I can't keep the fish alive I will never have success.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

serrasalmus_collector said:


> My ultimate goal is to induce spawning in piraya and be successful... If I can't keep the fish alive I will never have success.


 I look forward to your new findings


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

> That could be a possiblity Gross Quirk


Intentional?
I am not talking about the gravel..that is minor in the cycle. I am talking about you removing the *filter media*. There is a big difference. Gravel has almost nothing to do with the cycle of your tank unless you are using a UGF.
I am trying to give you some advice, not withstanding your ego, please give me the same respect.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Damn lost another... I have never seen deaths like this.. The fish turn white, and the eyes roll upward.... What can it be?????? Now I got one more turning white, and it is my favorite... I had Large yellow flames


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## Datman (Jul 7, 2003)

boxer said:


> im really sorry to hear this but with your dead piraya, examine it, and you might have to do a little ahh-top-see(dunno how to spell it but i'll sound it out). when i was looking for what was killing my feeders, i found worms that went in the internal organs and killed off the host and exited the body. ask the person you traded the p's if there was anything more wrong with em


 The word youre thinking of is spelled autopsy.


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## vlahos (Sep 7, 2003)

maybe you could take a water sample to a lfs or vet...they may be able to find out what it is.


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## piranhapat (Oct 11, 2003)

I would increase has much oxygen to the tank. Bring temp. to 82%. Do not do anymore water change. Unless water condition is bad. What is your Ph and ammonia? They are staying at top of water for more oxygen. Are they breathing heavy? Add a little aqua salt if you have some. Sounds to me some kind of bacteria that the piranhas have gave to one another.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Well I got 2 bubbler 12" strips on the bottom of the tank

PH 6.7
Amonia 0 ppm
Nitrate and nitrites are extrememly low... In a new 55 gallon now with 2 inches gravel undergavel that has been cycling with fish for about 5 months...
I don't have a test for disolved oxygen, but think ogygen content is high
I got a water fall fillter filtering 500 gallons per/hr, and a power head putting in air...

I lost half the fish, but I think it has stopped... When I got the fish some were white with great yellos flames... Lookes like all the white ones died... I got 4 out of 8 now.....

As you can see lots of filtration and plenty of air in the tank......
Possible the argulus poisioned the fish, and they died a slow death.. I am just guessing...


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

serrasalmus_collector said:


> Possible the argulus poisioned the fish, and they died a slow death.. I am just guessing...


 Argulus can not poison fish but death is usually due to secondary bacterial infections from the wounds or severe tissue damage.


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## piranhapat (Oct 11, 2003)

Get rid of undergravel filter it's not 70's anymore. Undergravel filters are the worst think to have in a piranha tank. Better off with a deeper gravel bed for the tank.


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## etalon9100 (Jul 4, 2003)

I found that moving weak fish to another tank.. is like a death wish.

Sorry for your losses.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Well I won't say I swear by under gravel filtration, but I really like my set-up&#8230; I got about 50 of them from a store going out of business&#8230; Not your typical undergravel&#8230;They have a bubbler 8 inch bubbler strip, and cartages that can be filled&#8230; There are no tubes on this filter&#8230; I like the cartages that go where the bubbles come out&#8230; You're not suppose to be able to open them, but didn't take many smarts to figure out how&#8230;.I take them out monthly, and refill them with fresh zeolite&#8230; Don't knock them until you have seen them&#8230; There is a flat clear plastic aeration chamber that sticks maybe 3 inches above the gravel&#8230;.Very modern and sleek looking&#8230; Also the help in aeration and ammonia removal&#8230; You can put anything you want in these cartages &#8230;Carbon, peat,zeolite&#8230; I chose zeolite&#8230; Don't knock um until you have seen them&#8230;..Can't really find them much now&#8230; But here is a pic&#8230;

No tube undergravel

PS... Looks like the deaths have stopped... It's been 24 hours and no casualties... I hope I can keep the remaining 4

Damn!!! I lost half of them


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

GD… I got really pissed… I saw 2 turning white after I put my good piraya in with them…. I dosed them with salt… 1tbls for 5 gallons, and gave the Tank buddies parasite killer full strength and raised the water temp to 82….. What a switch… Now I can see white stuff like little bubbles on the tail, ventral, and pectoral fins… What can this bee???? It only appears on the 2 fish that were turning white… Fungus???? Or some strange parasite???? It has been 48 hours so I don’t think the fish will die… They are eating and swimming as a shoal again…


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## Datman (Jul 7, 2003)

Just out of curiosity but what are you using to lower your pH? Also have you been able to perform an autopsy on the fish that are dead? Possible internal parasitic infections? It could also be that they were over drugged when transported or possibly even heavily medicated to the point where theyre bodies couldnt handle it and it caused them irrepairable damage? Maybe a swim bladder infection or something. I dunno why dont you try opening one up and exploring the world of fish forensics lol.

Btw I am very sorry for your loses.


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## Datman (Jul 7, 2003)

Oh snap some shots of them if you can maybe someone else can diagnose whats going on with them. Or better yet take some shots of the 2 that are turning white and then if you have a dead one open him up and take shots of the autopsy. Maybe thatll help people diagnose what they have.


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## boxer (Sep 11, 2003)

datman it is really really really hard to do an autopsy if u have no background or even if you have a good amount of knowledge you wouldn't know where to look 1st. it's more chemical testing in an autopsy and physical harm is not always the case in parasites. it could be something entering and leaving without SC knowing


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Strangest thing I ever saw with the piraya… Must have been something bad… I have never experienced ick on a piranha… 2 started getting ick, and it became terrible real fast… Salt treatment was given, temperature 84 maintained, and 48 hour water changes…They have darkened again and nice yellow flames returned…They are eating real good, so I will assume they are cured…. I just hope they aren’t sterile… I got some plans for these bad boys..


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