# 33 Red Bellies



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Growing out 33 baby red bellies from 1" in a 180 gallon tank.

Do they live together fine, or how long until I start having problems with overstocking?

Filtration is dual AC500's and a single Eheim 2217.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

u may have problems when theyre smaller as baby piranhas are most cannibalistic in that stage at leats in my experience with 3-4 inchers. i would get a few more filters maybe another cannister


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

> how long until I start having problems with overstocking?


Right about now


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Currently feeding them 3 -4 times daily large amounts until the cannot eat any longer. No problems whatsoever with agression so far.

I have seen pics in the Aquario forum of 27 large Caribe with 7 Geryi, so I am assuming that if I take care of my fish properly I shouldn't have problems until they are much larger.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

> I have seen pics in the Aquario forum of 27 large Caribe with 7 Geryi, so I am assuming that if I take care of my fish properly I shouldn't have problems until they are much larger


Thats B. Scotts tank , and no offense but I dont think your him, he is a very advanced aquarist ..
Piranha Aquario is for advanced hobbyists









Takeing care of fish properly also consists of filtrating your tank properly, among other things.

Unfortuanately when senior hobbyists share their photos with us , sometimes alot of new people see that and think they can do it .
















aboard.


----------



## Oscar5001 (Sep 22, 2005)

Rooner said:


> Currently feeding them 3 -4 times daily large amounts until the cannot eat any longer. No problems whatsoever with agression so far.
> 
> I have seen pics in the Aquario forum of 27 large Caribe with 7 Geryi, so I am assuming that if I take care of my fish properly I shouldn't have problems until they are much larger.


I highly doubt you will be able to keep up with all those fish. I would keep a dozen at the most and sell the rest. You'll still have a nice big shoal of p's.


----------



## NegativeCamber (Nov 29, 2004)

Sounds like its time for a great red belly p sale!!!!!









Seriously though, 33 in a 180 gallon will increasingly become crowded and you will soon see problems arise..







If you do not take anyones advice in this thread, at least upgrade your filtration to a maximum level.

Good Luck


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> Currently feeding them 3 -4 times daily large amounts until the cannot eat any longer. No problems whatsoever with agression so far.
> 
> I have seen pics in the Aquario forum of 27 large Caribe with 7 Geryi, so I am assuming that if I take care of my fish properly I shouldn't have problems until they are much larger.


I highly doubt you will be able to keep up with all those fish. I would keep a dozen at the most and sell the rest. You'll still have a nice big shoal of p's.
[/quote]

I am a very dedicated fish keeper, I think I will.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

if i were overstocking id go at least 15-20 times turnover with filtration. when im normally stocked which i guess u can say t he whole 20 gal per fish method i go with 10 times turnover... for example a 100 gal will have over 1000 gph of filtration. like i said in my previous post id get another cannister or mayb 2. cause with that much feeding there is going to b a lot of shitting. with alot of shitting comes ammonia.. it ammonia comes effed up water conditions.. with effed up water conditions comes headaches


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

> I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> 
> My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.


Ummm thats 1,264gph total filtration in your tank ...........Guidline is 10times the rate , plus with more fish you want to overfiltrate , no matter what the size . 
180 gallon =1800gph thats 10times.

You asked and we answered , if ya dont like what we have to offer or if ya know it all , maybe you shouldnt ask







That way were not wasting your time


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> if i were overstocking id go at least 15-20 times turnover with filtration. when im normally stocked which i guess u can say t he whole 20 gal per fish method i go with 10 times turnover... for example a 100 gal will have over 1000 gph of filtration. like i said in my previous post id get another cannister or mayb 2. cause with that much feeding there is going to b a lot of shitting. with alot of shitting comes ammonia.. it ammonia comes effed up water conditions.. with effed up water conditions comes headaches


Well all of my filter media was already established and I have checked ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels and all are perfect. I change large percentages of water twice per week (40%) and I am sure I won't have a problem with ammonia. If I needed more filtration it would be purely for chemical or mechanical filtration.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

haha is there an echo in here? i guess great mi nds think alike


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


There are only so many AC500's you can put on the back of a 6 foot tank you know?


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Rooner said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


There are only so many AC500's you can put on the back of a 6 foot tank you know?
[/quote]

thats y u get another cannister filter....


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Rooner said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


There are only so many AC500's you can put on the back of a 6 foot tank you know?
[/quote]
I understand , add a cannister filter or a wet/dry , Im not saying it cant be done , but if your atleast gonna try , try with the info provided and succeed


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


I wasn't asking about my filtration, I was more wondering about tank agression as they get larger.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

without adequate filtration they wont get larger i.e. water quality cause lots of problem. if u search the disease forum u will see most problems people have that they asked help with the first reply is wat are ur water parameters..


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

33truballa33 said:


> without adequate filtration they wont get larger i.e. water quality cause lots of problem. if u search the disease forum u will see most problems people have that they asked help with the first reply is wat are ur water parameters..


----------



## Oscar5001 (Sep 22, 2005)

You originally asked if we thought you were overstocked. The answer is yes, you are and things are only going to get worse. You don't have nearly enough filtration, and when those fish get bigger you will struggle to keep your water parameters in check. Sounds like you have your mind made up, so what is the point of asking advice?


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+

Thanks for your opinions guys.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Rooner said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


just to clarify its not opinions.. its advice. id love to see ur shoal of 6 when theyre 6 inches


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


just to clarify its not opinions.. its advice. id love to see ur shoal of 6 when theyre 6 inches








[/quote]

And just one question since you are such a pro on the subject, when was the last time you had 30 piranhas in a 180 gallon tank to tell me that I will only have 6 left?


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Id think theyd be fine for right now being 1"ers. But you need to remember they are going to be 6 inches long in a matter of months. 33 6" fish in a 180 is beyond overstocking. Thats ALOT! I would suggest some major upgrades on your filtration (2 more canisters within the next 3 months) and you'll definately need to relocate quite a few of them (atleast 10-15) once they get bigger, if they make it that far.

Im sorry you didnt get the answer from everyone here that you wanted, but they're just giving you honest advice. Many of the members here have been keeping piranhas for many years, and just because they can make something work doesnt mean someone new to piranha can. I have been keeping fish for about 12 years. That doesnt mean I know anything about piranha. Piranha are much different then keeping a community aquarium full of tetras and swordtails. Ive only been keeping piranha for about a year, and Ive leanred more from the advanced hobbyists on this board than any book or picture could ever teach. I suggest you listen to their advice. Thayre only trying to help.



Rooner said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


just to clarify its not opinions.. its advice. id love to see ur shoal of 6 when theyre 6 inches








[/quote]

And just one question since you are such a pro on the subject, when was the last time you had 30 piranhas in a 180 gallon tank to tell me that I will only have 6 left?
[/quote]

Never. Hes smart enough not to try and put 30 piranha in a 180. Not only is it not practical, but i feel its cruel to the fish to shove them into a small space like that. Theyre a living animal and deserve your upmost respect.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> Id think theyd be fine for right now being 1"ers. But you need to remember they are going to be 6 inches long in a matter of months. 33 6" fish in a 180 is beyond overstocking. Thats ALOT! I would suggest some major upgrades on your filtration (2 more canisters within the next 3 months) and you'll definately need to relocate quite a few of them (atleast 10-15) once they get bigger, if they make it that far.
> 
> Im sorry you didnt get the answer from everyone here that you wanted, but they're just giving you honest advice. Many of the members here have been keeping piranhas for many years, and just because they can make something work doesnt mean someone new to piranha can. I have been keeping fish for about 12 years. That doesnt mean I know anything about piranha. Piranha are much different then keeping a community aquarium full of tetras and swordtails. Ive only been keeping piranha for about a year, and Ive leanred more from the advanced hobbyists on this board than any book or picture could ever teach. I suggest you listen to their advice. Thayre only trying to help.


Thats where everyone got me wrong, I have 5 tanks, and am not new to piranhas at all. The actual plan was to raise them to about 4" and start sellin off a few of the runts of the group and keeping around 15-20 of them.


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Rooner said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


You made specific reference to saying you would have 30 6" fish in there. You never said you would sell any off at 4-5".


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

MR HARLEY said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


No, it's not - gph doesn't mean much: it is a nice way for manufacturers to boost sales to put all the money on raw power, but it ain't much more than that.
Let me elaborate: compared to 500 gph of filtration done by Fluval canisters, the same 500 gph of filtration done by Eheim canisters can filter a tank twice the size/bioload.
It's all about efficiency, and that is determined by filter volume, not raw power.

I'm not saying you don't need a hefty amount of filtration to keep a piranha tank properly filtered - you're 100% right about that.
But saying you need (at least) a 10x time per hour turnover rate is like saying you need at least a 10" pecker to have good sex







And although it may sound logical, but in reality it's a rather empty statement...


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


No, it's not - gph doesn't mean much: it is a nice way for manufacturers to boost sales to put all the money on raw power, but it ain't much more than that.
Let me elaborate: compared to 500 gph of filtration done by Fluval canisters, the same 500 gph of filtration done by Eheim canisters can filter a tank twice the size/bioload.
It's all about efficiency, and that is determined by filter volume, not raw power.

I'm not saying you don't need a hefty amount of filtration to keep a piranha tank properly filtered - you're 100% right about that.
But saying you need (at least) a 10x time per hour turnover rate is like saying you need at least a 10" pecker to have good sex







And although it may sound logical, but in reality it's a rather empty statement...
[/quote]

Judazz, would you say my filtration is inadequate currently?

Eheim 2217 + 2 AC500's
180 gallon tank
33 1-2" RBP


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

No he doesnt have a potion, he has years of PIRANHA experience. Not FISH experience. One thing I have leanred is that they are two very different things. Everyone knows LFS WAY overstock their tanks, because it is for short periods of time. Many LFS keep groups of rhoms together in a tank too, does that mean we should all start doing that too?


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> No he doesnt have a potion, he has years of PIRANHA experience. Not FISH experience. One thing I have leanred is that they are two very different things. Everyone knows LFS WAY overstock their tanks, because it is for short periods of time. Many LFS keep groups of rhoms together in a tank too, does that mean we should all start doing that too?


Did I say I have goldfish keeping experience? no.

I have piranha keeping experience, that you would have assumed that.

Anyways, I will post a pic shorly and an update every month from now until adult size.


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Im sorry Rooner Im not trying to pick a fight with you. All Im saying is everyone on here has ALOT of experience and they are all trying to help you out. There is no need to be deisrespectful to everyone here because you didnt like their advice.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Rooner said:


> Judazz, would you say my filtration is inadequate currently?
> 
> Eheim 2217 + 2 AC500's
> 180 gallon tank
> 33 1-2" RBP


For now it is, but your Reds will all (or at least the ones that still remain) pass the 5-inch marker within the coming 6-9 months: and by then, not only will your tank be too small, but your filtration may not cut it either.
I have a 80 gallon tank with only 5 Redbellies (8-9,5" in size), filtered by one Eheim Pro 2228, and two no-name yet decent internal filters, and that is already pushing the limit (even though I change at least 50% of the tank water every week and feed no more often than twice a week).

If I were you, I'd start thinking about how to - quite drastically - downsize your group: they are small, but you may be amazed by how fast they grow. And trust me, half a year flies by when it comes to fish keeping, and by then you may already be in serious trouble as far as your tank is concerned.
If you have no options to upgrade in the future (and why should you: a 180g is an awsome tank!), I'd keep some 10. Plus or minus 2 or 3 fish, depending on whether you want to overstock or understock - personally I prefer the look of a large tank with a limited amount of piranha's: it just makes them look better, feel better and act more natural.
Besides that, I'd also get an additional canister filter or a wet/dry filter to deal with the ever-increasing bioload: even though an Eheim 2217 is a brilliant filter, it won't be enough to biofilter a 180g with messy meateaters on its own.

Oh, and since this is your first thread here: welcome to the Fury


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Judazz, would you say my filtration is inadequate currently?
> 
> Eheim 2217 + 2 AC500's
> 180 gallon tank
> 33 1-2" RBP


For now it is, but your Reds will all (or at least the ones that still remain) pass the 5-inch marker within the coming 6-9 months: and by then, not only will your tank be too small, but your filtration may not cut it either.
I have a 80 gallon tank with only 5 Redbellies (8-9,5" in size), filtered by one Eheim Pro 2228, and two no-name yet decent internal filters, and that is already pushing the limit (even though I change at least 50% of the tank water every week and feed no more often than twice a week).

If I were you, I'd start thinking about how to - quite drastically - downsize your group: they are small, but you may be amazed by how fast they grow. And trust me, half a year flies by when it comes to fish keeping, and by then you may already be in serious trouble as far as your tank is concerned.
If you have no options to upgrade in the future (and why should you: a 180g is an awsome tank!), I'd keep some 10. Plus or minus 2 or 3 fish, depending on whether you want to overstock or understock - personally I prefer the look of a large tank with a limited amount of piranha's: it just makes them look better, feel better and act more natural.
Besides that, I'd also get an additional canister filter or a wet/dry filter to deal with the ever-increasing bioload: even though an Eheim 2217 is a brilliant filter, it won't be enough to biofilter a 180g with messy meateaters on its own.

Oh, and since this is your first thread here: welcome to the Fury








[/quote]

Thanks a lot for the advice. I actually plan on getting a few more 180's in the next few months. I plan on keeping the largest 15-20 in this tank and selling off the rest, and getting a group of small caribe for my next 180.

If anyone wants to see pics, they will be posted within the next few days.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Rooner said:


> Judazz, would you say my filtration is inadequate currently?
> 
> Eheim 2217 + 2 AC500's
> 180 gallon tank
> 33 1-2" RBP


For now it is, but your Reds will all (or at least the ones that still remain) pass the 5-inch marker within the coming 6-9 months: and by then, not only will your tank be too small, but your filtration may not cut it either.
I have a 80 gallon tank with only 5 Redbellies (8-9,5" in size), filtered by one Eheim Pro 2228, and two no-name yet decent internal filters, and that is already pushing the limit (even though I change at least 50% of the tank water every week and feed no more often than twice a week).

If I were you, I'd start thinking about how to - quite drastically - downsize your group: they are small, but you may be amazed by how fast they grow. And trust me, half a year flies by when it comes to fish keeping, and by then you may already be in serious trouble as far as your tank is concerned.
If you have no options to upgrade in the future (and why should you: a 180g is an awsome tank!), I'd keep some 10. Plus or minus 2 or 3 fish, depending on whether you want to overstock or understock - personally I prefer the look of a large tank with a limited amount of piranha's: it just makes them look better, feel better and act more natural.
Besides that, I'd also get an additional canister filter or a wet/dry filter to deal with the ever-increasing bioload: even though an Eheim 2217 is a brilliant filter, it won't be enough to biofilter a 180g with messy meateaters on its own.

Oh, and since this is your first thread here: welcome to the Fury








[/quote]

Thanks a lot for the advice. I actually plan on getting a few more 180's in the next few months. I plan on keeping the largest 15-20 in this tank and selling off the rest, and getting a group of small caribe for my next 180.

If anyone wants to see pics, they will be posted within the next few days.
[/quote]
It's your choice, but personally I wouldn't keep that many. If you want to keep 15-20 Reds in a decent and responsible way, you'll need quite a bit more than 180 gallons over time. Yes, they may fit, but imo. the number one concern of a fish keeper should always be whether a certain situation is the right one for the fish, not their owner.

Like I said earlier, it will take time before your fish will outgrow a 180g tank, but eventually the situation will be far from ideal.

Anyways, that's up to you to decide, and we will have to respect that. I wish you good luck, regardless of what you eventually decide to do









btw: I wish I had the room for a 180g, let alone for a number of them


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)




----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Here is some really good info on overstocking and that tank you talked about coming from B. Scott and Hareball
Quoted from B. Scott (April 05)


> Over the last few years, I have been very fortunate to have the opportunity to mix several species of both the true piranhas (Pygocentrus) and pirambebas (Serrasalmus, Pygopristis, and Pristobrycon) together with very, very positive results.


Tank kept


> 180-gallon
> 24 Pygocentrus cariba, 7 Serrasalmus geryi, and 1 S. rhombeus


Time kept


> configurations were only set up for a few months to half a year or so. Not long enough to based anything long-term on, but still cool. Keep in mind, piranhas and pirembebas do NOT need a long time to do damage!!


Hareballs quote about overestocking, This is who helped maitain that tank we are talking about above.


> overcrowding a tank is alot of work. the piranha keeper really needs to be on top of feedings and water quality. not an easy tank to maintain.


Would ya like more


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> Here is some really good info on overstocking and that tank you talked about coming from B. Scott and Hareball
> Quoted from B. Scott (April 05)
> 
> 
> ...


I've already read all of that, and I am most definately on top of feedings and water changes. As already stated, i am currently doing two weekly changes at about 40% each time. Also feeding 3-4 times daily, so I would say that is sufficient as well.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Rooner said:


> Here is some really good info on overstocking and that tank you talked about coming from B. Scott and Hareball
> Quoted from B. Scott (April 05)
> 
> 
> ...


I've already read all of that, and I am most definately on top of feedings and water changes. As already stated, i am currently doing two weekly changes at about 40% each time. Also feeding 3-4 times daily, so I would say that is sufficient as well.
[/quote]


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

just quit craig this guy isnt worth ur time. he is changing his mind so it doesnt really help to keep it going


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> just quit craig this guy isnt worth ur time. he is changing his mind so it doesnt really help to keep it going


who is craig and who is changing who's mind

i bought my 33 red bellies knowing what i was doing and i am gonna do exactly what i had planned from day 1. you work with aquascape and you are Mr king piranha god now... Gotcha, right.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Rooner said:


> just quit craig this guy isnt worth ur time. he is changing his mind so it doesnt really help to keep it going


who is craig and who is changing who's mind

i bought my 33 red bellies knowing what i was doing and i am gonna do exactly what i had planned from day 1. you work with aquascape and you are Mr king piranha god now...  Gotcha, right.
[/quote]

no piranha king is wes not me. i offered my advice and u threw it to the side so im not going to lend anymore and im telling mr harley to do the same. i dont claim supremacy over anyone or anything along those lines. i have talked to people that have overstocked because i was thinking of doing that but u read one thread and make a comparison to it then when people offer u advice here u turn ur head to them. suit urself man.

and wut does me working for aquascape have to do with anything? people that actually take advise given to them end up quite well. i am here to help people not to be ridiculed by a person that is so set on doing something that several people have told him wouldnt work. of course u havent seen how many people i help and ASSUME u kno things that u dont. ill let u go about ur merry way in ur ignorance.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Im Craig










> i bought my 33 red bellies knowing what i was doing and i am gonna do exactly what i had planned from day 1.


If ya knew what you were doing ? then why post a thread with this ?


> Growing out 33 baby red bellies from 1" in a 180 gallon tank.
> 
> Do they live together fine, or how long until I start having problems with overstocking?


Yeah sounds like you got it down :laugh:


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> Im Craig
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't ask for an opinion?

man, seems like everyone here except Judazz is just lookin for an argument. Nice way to welcome a new member.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

no one here is looking for an arguement.. go back to page one and look how u altered the tone of this thread.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> no one here is looking for an arguement.. go back to page one and look how u altered the tone of this thread.


Please show me where i "altered the tone of this thread" and once again how I am "not worth his time"?

You know what, if spending 15 hours a day on this board makes you a better fish keeper than me in your books then be it.

For me, I'll spend my time with my 33 red bellies in my 180...


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

> Nice way to welcome a new member.


I welcomed you in my 2nd post , guess ya missed it


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Can I please have an admin close this thread. If I want any advice I'll PM people who I think can actually help me without the attitude of these characters.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Rooner said:


> no one here is looking for an arguement.. go back to page one and look how u altered the tone of this thread.


Please show me where i "altered the tone of this thread" and once again how I am "not worth his time"?

You know what, if spending 15 hours a day on this board makes you a better fish keeper than me in your books then be it.

For me, I'll spend my time with my 33 red bellies in my 180...
[/quote]

damn who spends 15 hours on a fish board? not i. once again reread my posts no1 is saying they are better than u. u are assuming all of this.. and by u not bein worth the time im saying u arent listening to wut he is saying about having that many fish as he has advised u against it but do wut u want. i have said my piece imma leave it at that.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> no one here is looking for an arguement.. go back to page one and look how u altered the tone of this thread.


Please show me where i "altered the tone of this thread" and once again how I am "not worth his time"?

You know what, if spending 15 hours a day on this board makes you a better fish keeper than me in your books then be it.

For me, I'll spend my time with my 33 red bellies in my 180...
[/quote]

damn who spends 15 hours on a fish board? not i. once again reread my posts no1 is saying they are better than u. u are assuming all of this.. and by u not bein worth the time im saying u arent listening to wut he is saying about having that many fish as he has advised u against it but do wut u want. i have said my piece imma leave it at that.
[/quote]

You are not worth my time. Please don't respond to my threads.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Characters ???







now he has resorted to name calling .................


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> Charcters ???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry al mighty god if I insulted you


----------



## Soldat (Aug 28, 2004)

Rooner said:


> Can I please have an admin close this thread. If I want any advice I'll PM people who I think can actually help me without the attitude of these characters.


To be honest there is quite some hostility coming from you. You went from a confused piranha keeper to an expert in just a few posts. They were trying to give you experienced advice and you pretty much told them you werent going to pay attention to it. I'm thinking you should listen to these people especially on filtration man. Your loving pal, Kev


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

anyways ill b the mature one.. in no way was i trying to start an "arguement" but i guess some people are just sensitive. i have given u advice and if u really have the time to keep them then go for it.. just dont b surprised when u wake up and have missing fish. especially with a tank that is only 6 ft long. i had 10 pirayas in an 8ft 200 gal and lost 2 of them to cannibalism had 15 times filtration on it and fed two times aday. u cant make comparisons between other peoples tanks because no piranhas are the same but i do apologize for not being worth ur time. i will do my best not to disturb ur highness anymore

there are a lot of people on this site that can give u advice. but very few can give u advice taht is taken from direct experience. would u rather have something that is regurgitated back at u or is from direct experience?? everything i speak on is from experience as is harley. so take it as u will.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> anyways ill b the mature one.. in no way was i trying to start an "arguement" but i guess some people are just sensitive. i have given u advice and if u really have the time to keep them then go for it.. just dont b surprised when u wake up and have missing fish. especially with a tank that is only 6 ft long. i had 10 pirayas in an 8ft 200 gal and lost 2 of them to cannibalism had 15 times filtration on it and fed two times aday. u cant make comparisons between other peoples tanks because no piranhas are the same but i do apologize for not being worth ur time. i will do my best not to disturb ur highness anymore
> 
> there are a lot of people on this site that can give u advice. but very few can give u advice taht is taken from direct experience. would u rather have something that is regurgitated back at u or is from direct experience?? everything i speak on is from experience as is harley. so take it as u will.


Ok thank you,

Now please tell me which one out of you or Harley that has tried what I am doing with the same kind of time and care that I am going to put into it?


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

i just told u my experience which dealt with a more ideal tank than urz but like i said ur set on it so go for it. once again i apologize as i have forced u to read another reply.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Rooner said:


> anyways ill b the mature one.. in no way was i trying to start an "arguement" but i guess some people are just sensitive. i have given u advice and if u really have the time to keep them then go for it.. just dont b surprised when u wake up and have missing fish. especially with a tank that is only 6 ft long. i had 10 pirayas in an 8ft 200 gal and lost 2 of them to cannibalism had 15 times filtration on it and fed two times aday. u cant make comparisons between other peoples tanks because no piranhas are the same but i do apologize for not being worth ur time. i will do my best not to disturb ur highness anymore
> 
> there are a lot of people on this site that can give u advice. but very few can give u advice taht is taken from direct experience. would u rather have something that is regurgitated back at u or is from direct experience?? everything i speak on is from experience as is harley. so take it as u will.


Ok thank you,

Now please tell me which one out of you or Harley that has tried what I am doing with the same kind of time and care that I am going to put into it?
[/quote]
Reds you mean tank raised reds OMG







..............such begginer fish , you want an award now ? You act as if your doing something special , I moved way past that along time ago , and there is no need to justify to someone of your no-it -all , name-calling stature .

I cant wait for your threads in the future , OMG I lost my fish ? WHY WHY WHY


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> anyways ill b the mature one.. in no way was i trying to start an "arguement" but i guess some people are just sensitive. i have given u advice and if u really have the time to keep them then go for it.. just dont b surprised when u wake up and have missing fish. especially with a tank that is only 6 ft long. i had 10 pirayas in an 8ft 200 gal and lost 2 of them to cannibalism had 15 times filtration on it and fed two times aday. u cant make comparisons between other peoples tanks because no piranhas are the same but i do apologize for not being worth ur time. i will do my best not to disturb ur highness anymore
> 
> there are a lot of people on this site that can give u advice. but very few can give u advice taht is taken from direct experience. would u rather have something that is regurgitated back at u or is from direct experience?? everything i speak on is from experience as is harley. so take it as u will.


Ok thank you,

Now please tell me which one out of you or Harley that has tried what I am doing with the same kind of time and care that I am going to put into it?
[/quote]
Reds you mean tank raised reds OMG







..............such begginer fish , you want an award now ? You act as if your doing something special , I moved way past that along time ago , and there is no need to justify to someone of your no-it -all , name-calling stature .

I cant wait for your threads in the future , OMG I lost my fish ? WHY WHY WHY






















[/quote]

I bet you don't have too many friends, do you?


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Rooner said:


> anyways ill b the mature one.. in no way was i trying to start an "arguement" but i guess some people are just sensitive. i have given u advice and if u really have the time to keep them then go for it.. just dont b surprised when u wake up and have missing fish. especially with a tank that is only 6 ft long. i had 10 pirayas in an 8ft 200 gal and lost 2 of them to cannibalism had 15 times filtration on it and fed two times aday. u cant make comparisons between other peoples tanks because no piranhas are the same but i do apologize for not being worth ur time. i will do my best not to disturb ur highness anymore
> 
> there are a lot of people on this site that can give u advice. but very few can give u advice taht is taken from direct experience. would u rather have something that is regurgitated back at u or is from direct experience?? everything i speak on is from experience as is harley. so take it as u will.


Ok thank you,

Now please tell me which one out of you or Harley that has tried what I am doing with the same kind of time and care that I am going to put into it?
[/quote]
Reds you mean tank raised reds OMG







..............such begginer fish , you want an award now ? You act as if your doing something special , I moved way past that along time ago , and there is no need to justify to someone of your no-it -all , name-calling stature .

I cant wait for your threads in the future , OMG I lost my fish ? WHY WHY WHY






















[/quote]

I bet you don't have too many friends, do you?
[/quote]







Hmmm ...............Well considering I have won member of the month on here 3 times in as many years , I would say Yeah








Check the bottom of the sig son


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I see a lot of over reaction in this thread. 
I dont see 33 small reds in a 180 as over stocking. They have plenty of room in that size tank. He also has plenty of filtration to keep up with the ammonia. All the water changes to keep the nitrates down would be a pain but he has plenty of filtration on his tank. Half the time when I read these threads I wonder if people actually understand the purpose of filtration. I think this would be a great tank to have....and all you need to do is sell off a few fish when it starts to feel over crowded. That 20 gallon "rule" is just a guideline but doesnt really stand up to any type of scrutiny. That is a measurement for full size fish and really....could a full-size piraya live in a 20 gallon tank?

So before you castrate this guy....think about what you are saying.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

i dunno bout 33 reds in a 6ft tank......i think footprint and the famed 20 gal per fish is against this guy.. but to each his own


----------



## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Right now as babies the fish might be fine. But soon when they grow up (less than 6 months) it'll start getting crowded in the tank. You will need to up the filtration, get a bigger tank, and get rid of some fish.

Also, please have fun changing water everyday.

180 gallons / 33 fish = 5.454545454545 gallons of water per fish. Just wait till they hit 5 inches, then there will be some complications.


----------



## steve1337 (Oct 25, 2005)

I dont blame you for wanting to do what your doing. It must be awesome to see all those P's together. You have to understand that when you ask for advice here people are going to tell you the BEST way to go about doing things. It is your choice whether or not you want to do it that way or if you are content with doing it differently.

My opinion is that you will lose at least 5-10 fish within the next few months. Your filtration is OK for now. As long as you are willing to pickup another good canister in a couple months or so then it should be all good.

Good luck to you, and please post some pics!


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

steve1337 said:


> I dont blame you for wanting to do what your doing. It must be awesome to see all those P's together. You have to understand that when you ask for advice here people are going to tell you the BEST way to go about doing things. It is your choice whether or not you want to do it that way or if you are content with doing it differently.
> 
> My opinion is that you will lose at least 5-10 fish within the next few months. Your filtration is OK for now. As long as you are willing to pickup another good canister in a couple months or so then it should be all good.
> 
> Good luck to you, and please post some pics!


Will definately post pics in a few weeks when they are a decent size. They have already doubled in size from 1" to 2" in the last week since I got them.


----------



## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

well I just wanted to say that I started out with 15 piranhas at one inch and in less then 1 year they are now close to 5. I go to Aldi's (a cheap ass grocery store here) and I buy a bag of fresh fish filets and they go through the whole bag in about 4 days. The bag costs $6. That $6 adds up pretty damn fast, trust me. Them things will eat you out of house and home.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

sprtslvr785 said:


> well I just wanted to say that I started out with 15 piranhas at one inch and in less then 1 year they are now close to 5. I go to Aldi's (a cheap ass grocery store here) and I buy a bag of fresh fish filets and they go through the whole bag in about 4 days. The bag costs $6. That $6 adds up pretty damn fast, trust me. Them things will eat you out of house and home.


I get smelts at 1.29 per bag. Even at full size, I can't imagine eating more than 1 bag of smelts a day.


----------



## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

I started out a few months ago with 18 dime size reds and now I have 8 soon to be 6 in a 125gal.
Them little guys are killers.
I have 4 AC 500 and managed to stick an Eheim pro in between.
Feed twice a day and change 50% water weekly.

Good luck.


----------



## MLK (Jun 30, 2005)

how do you even know that you have 33 still? do you count each and every single p in there and know for sure that you didnt miss one or count one twice? i mean theres so many in there i dont think youll notice that some got eaten for a good while until a substantial number are gone


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

MLK said:


> how do you even know that you have 33 still? do you count each and every single p in there and know for sure that you didnt miss one or count one twice? i mean theres so many in there i dont think youll notice that some got eaten for a good while until a substantial number are gone


No, I haven't counted them and there very well could be a few missing.

However, they show no agression towards each other and they have so much space to retreat in case of any problems that I doubt any have died. There are some in there barely 1" and others now over 2" and the small ones still don't get eaten (as far as I can tell).

In a week or two, I will do an official count.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

33truballa33 said:


> ......i think (...) the famed 20 gal per fish is against this guy.. but to each his own


Yeah, it may be against him, but since the 20g-per-fish rule means jack sh*t it's of no relevance: 20g could fit in a tall 1x1" container or a container 2" high (no clue what the point of such contraptions would be, but "20g" doesn't say anything about the shape or dimensions of the container), so what does 20g per fish say? Nothing, nothing at all... Since when can nothing be against a person?

At this stage we're talking about 33 tiny Reds in a huge tank: that's like keeping 33 Colombia Tetra's in a 180 gallon tank, and no one halfway sane would scream in disapproval about that...


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> ......i think (...) the famed 20 gal per fish is against this guy.. but to each his own


Yeah, it may be against him, but since the 20g-per-fish rule means jack sh*t it's of no relevance: 20g could fit in a tall 1x1" container or a container 2" high (no clue what the point of such contraptions would be, but "20g" doesn't say anything about the shape or dimensions of the container), so what does 20g per fish say? Nothing, nothing at all... Since when can nothing be against a person?

At this stage we're talking about 33 tiny Reds in a huge tank: that's like keeping 33 Colombia Tetra's in a 180 gallon tank, and no one halfway sane would scream in disapproval about that...
[/quote]

yd u take out the rest of my post? teh foot print as i said earlier is against him as well and im not preaching the 20 gal rule as u can hopefully tell by the tone of my post so i dunno y u are going off on that tagent. also im not going to tell a hobbyist to do something and risk losing fish more than necessary. look thru all the posts about someone sticking tons of p's in a tank. everyone screams disapproval. i have gone thru the liberty of actually searching a ton b4 i began to post a lot on this site and i guess this site goes thru cycles just like everything else in this world. when first beginning everyone and there mother on this site over stocked.. the out of nowhere comes this 20 gal per fish rule taht everyone lives by now that is gone now we are hearing about footprint but apparently its back to being ok to overstock.

new hobbyist dont need to be encouraged on taking on these types of feets. in my opinion it stresses them and the loss of fish especially when u have 33 can lead to complacency and that could b disastrous for the fish... i would hate to have a new hobbyist lose fish and be like eh i still have 32... uhh still got 30 of em im good... still got 25 theyre doing fine. i guess that is wehre u and i differ

edit. and if u truly think that someone would apply the 20 gallon rule to a tank that is less than 55 gals u my friend have very narrow thinking and want to prove a point. u never here sumone say oh u have one fish ? throw that hoe in a 20 gal...... come on now lets think a lil outside the box


----------



## Dr Exum (Nov 6, 2004)

33truballa33 said:


> > I have 2 seperate AC500's and a single 2217, there is no way that isn't enough filtration for these small guys. I can add more filtration as they get larger, however I have seen tanks with a much higher bio load use less filtration than me.
> >
> > My filters are capable of handling a 380 gallon tank by specification, and I know piranhas need more filtration especially when overstocking but I don't see this as being inadequate yet.
> 
> ...


There are only so many AC500's you can put on the back of a 6 foot tank you know?
[/quote]

thats y u get another cannister filter....
[/quote]

what he said............... and put some pics. up.......


----------



## ninja_staRR (May 5, 2005)

I cant believe I read through this entire post.

AND STILL HAVEN'T SEEN ANY PICTURES!!!!!!
POST SOME PICS OF THIS SWEET ASS TANK!!!

Okay everyone here knows that at 2 inches this tank is not over stocked and if he's caring for it the way he says then their fine. His sig says that he owns other p's so he should be knowledgable enough to know that 33 6 inch reds will be way overstocked in a 180. Besides he's probably already down to 30 p's. Doesn't matter how well fed they are...your going to lose a few when their that young.

ANYWAYS QUIT ARGUING AND POST SOME PICS MAN!!!


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Does anyone know the actual footprint for a 180? I know 6 foot long, but by how wide and tall? We all know the footprint is what really matters, and at 2" he has plenty of room. The real question is how many square inches will each fish have at 5-6" length?


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

A 180 is 6'X2'X2'....but in relation to a 125....there is a really big difference. When you see the two tanks together you can just see that the 180 is so much larger then the actual 55 gallon difference....or 6" in width.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> ......i think (...) the famed 20 gal per fish is against this guy.. but to each his own


Yeah, it may be against him, but since the 20g-per-fish rule means jack sh*t it's of no relevance: 20g could fit in a tall 1x1" container or a container 2" high (no clue what the point of such contraptions would be, but "20g" doesn't say anything about the shape or dimensions of the container), so what does 20g per fish say? Nothing, nothing at all... Since when can nothing be against a person?

At this stage we're talking about 33 tiny Reds in a huge tank: that's like keeping 33 Colombia Tetra's in a 180 gallon tank, and no one halfway sane would scream in disapproval about that...
[/quote]

yd u take out the rest of my post? teh foot print as i said earlier is against him as well and im not preaching the 20 gal rule as u can hopefully tell by the tone of my post so i dunno y u are going off on that tagent. also im not going to tell a hobbyist to do something and risk losing fish more than necessary. look thru all the posts about someone sticking tons of p's in a tank. everyone screams disapproval. i have gone thru the liberty of actually searching a ton b4 i began to post a lot on this site and i guess this site goes thru cycles just like everything else in this world. when first beginning everyone and there mother on this site over stocked.. the out of nowhere comes this 20 gal per fish rule taht everyone lives by now that is gone now we are hearing about footprint but apparently its back to being ok to overstock.

new hobbyist dont need to be encouraged on taking on these types of feets. in my opinion it stresses them and the loss of fish especially when u have 33 can lead to complacency and that could b disastrous for the fish... i would hate to have a new hobbyist lose fish and be like eh i still have 32... uhh still got 30 of em im good... still got 25 theyre doing fine. i guess that is wehre u and i differ

edit. and if u truly think that someone would apply the 20 gallon rule to a tank that is less than 55 gals u my friend have very narrow thinking and want to prove a point. u never here sumone say oh u have one fish ? throw that hoe in a 20 gal...... come on now lets think a lil outside the box
[/quote]

How is the footprint against me? It is a nice wide tank. I guess for piranhas preferably it would be 3 feet wide and not as tall, but I'm not sure they make a tank with those demensions.


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Rooner said:


> ......i think (...) the famed 20 gal per fish is against this guy.. but to each his own


Yeah, it may be against him, but since the 20g-per-fish rule means jack sh*t it's of no relevance: 20g could fit in a tall 1x1" container or a container 2" high (no clue what the point of such contraptions would be, but "20g" doesn't say anything about the shape or dimensions of the container), so what does 20g per fish say? Nothing, nothing at all... Since when can nothing be against a person?

At this stage we're talking about 33 tiny Reds in a huge tank: that's like keeping 33 Colombia Tetra's in a 180 gallon tank, and no one halfway sane would scream in disapproval about that...
[/quote]

yd u take out the rest of my post? teh foot print as i said earlier is against him as well and im not preaching the 20 gal rule as u can hopefully tell by the tone of my post so i dunno y u are going off on that tagent. also im not going to tell a hobbyist to do something and risk losing fish more than necessary. look thru all the posts about someone sticking tons of p's in a tank. everyone screams disapproval. i have gone thru the liberty of actually searching a ton b4 i began to post a lot on this site and i guess this site goes thru cycles just like everything else in this world. when first beginning everyone and there mother on this site over stocked.. the out of nowhere comes this 20 gal per fish rule taht everyone lives by now that is gone now we are hearing about footprint but apparently its back to being ok to overstock.

new hobbyist dont need to be encouraged on taking on these types of feets. in my opinion it stresses them and the loss of fish especially when u have 33 can lead to complacency and that could b disastrous for the fish... i would hate to have a new hobbyist lose fish and be like eh i still have 32... uhh still got 30 of em im good... still got 25 theyre doing fine. i guess that is wehre u and i differ

edit. and if u truly think that someone would apply the 20 gallon rule to a tank that is less than 55 gals u my friend have very narrow thinking and want to prove a point. u never here sumone say oh u have one fish ? throw that hoe in a 20 gal...... come on now lets think a lil outside the box
[/quote]

How is the footprint against me? It is a nice wide tank. I guess for piranhas preferably it would be 3 feet wide and not as tall, but I'm not sure they make a tank with those demensions.
[/quote]

6'x2' is a great footprint for a piranha tank. Nice and long and wide. But its a perfect footprint for about 10 reds, not 33.

Based on those dimensions that only allows about 52 square inches per fish. Alot less than the 200 sq inches per fish that seems to be a popular measure.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> ......i think (...) the famed 20 gal per fish is against this guy.. but to each his own


Yeah, it may be against him, but since the 20g-per-fish rule means jack sh*t it's of no relevance: 20g could fit in a tall 1x1" container or a container 2" high (no clue what the point of such contraptions would be, but "20g" doesn't say anything about the shape or dimensions of the container), so what does 20g per fish say? Nothing, nothing at all... Since when can nothing be against a person?

At this stage we're talking about 33 tiny Reds in a huge tank: that's like keeping 33 Colombia Tetra's in a 180 gallon tank, and no one halfway sane would scream in disapproval about that...
[/quote]

yd u take out the rest of my post? teh foot print as i said earlier is against him as well and im not preaching the 20 gal rule as u can hopefully tell by the tone of my post so i dunno y u are going off on that tagent. also im not going to tell a hobbyist to do something and risk losing fish more than necessary. look thru all the posts about someone sticking tons of p's in a tank. everyone screams disapproval. i have gone thru the liberty of actually searching a ton b4 i began to post a lot on this site and i guess this site goes thru cycles just like everything else in this world. when first beginning everyone and there mother on this site over stocked.. the out of nowhere comes this 20 gal per fish rule taht everyone lives by now that is gone now we are hearing about footprint but apparently its back to being ok to overstock.

new hobbyist dont need to be encouraged on taking on these types of feets. in my opinion it stresses them and the loss of fish especially when u have 33 can lead to complacency and that could b disastrous for the fish... i would hate to have a new hobbyist lose fish and be like eh i still have 32... uhh still got 30 of em im good... still got 25 theyre doing fine. i guess that is wehre u and i differ

edit. and if u truly think that someone would apply the 20 gallon rule to a tank that is less than 55 gals u my friend have very narrow thinking and want to prove a point. u never here sumone say oh u have one fish ? throw that hoe in a 20 gal...... come on now lets think a lil outside the box
[/quote]

How is the footprint against me? It is a nice wide tank. I guess for piranhas preferably it would be 3 feet wide and not as tall, but I'm not sure they make a tank with those demensions.
[/quote]

6'x2' is a great footprint for a piranha tank. Nice and long and wide. But its a perfect footprint for about 10 reds, not 33.

Based on those dimensions that only allows about 52 square inches per fish. Alot less than the 200 sq inches per fish that seems to be a popular measure.
[/quote]

We have gone over this a hundred times in this thread.

Are you trying to tell me that I can only keep 10 4-6" RBP in a 180 gallon tank? If so, then please provide personal experience that would indicate that.


----------



## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Rooner said:


> Based on those dimensions that only allows about 52 square inches per fish. Alot less than the 200 sq inches per fish that seems to be a popular measure.


I have never heard the 200 square inches "guideline" before, however, things change when you are dealing with a large tank and a lot of small fish. I don't plan to have 33 10" RBP in there, and I have other tanks and other options if any problems arise in the future.
[/quote]

Yes it is a guidline, and yes it is meant for full grown fish. And like I said a few posts ago I think you are more than ok with 33 2" reds in a 180. However, they are going to grow quickly, to about 6" in the next few months. Once they are 6" you should still allow ATLEAST 100 square inches per fish, yet your still only allowing 52sq inches. I would think if at 6" you were down to 15 reds youd be in good shape, as long as you kept up with the maintenance which it sounds like you plan to do.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

i guess he knows wut he is doing espmike


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> Based on those dimensions that only allows about 52 square inches per fish. Alot less than the 200 sq inches per fish that seems to be a popular measure.


I have never heard the 200 square inches "guideline" before, however, things change when you are dealing with a large tank and a lot of small fish. I don't plan to have 33 10" RBP in there, and I have other tanks and other options if any problems arise in the future.
[/quote]

Yes it is a guidline, and yes it is meant for full grown fish. And like I said a few posts ago I think you are more than ok with 33 2" reds in a 180. However, they are going to grow quickly, to about 6" in the next few months. Once they are 6" you should still allow ATLEAST 100 square inches per fish, yet your still only allowing 52sq inches. I would think if at 6" you were down to 15 reds youd be in good shape, as long as you kept up with the maintenance which it sounds like you plan to do.
[/quote]

Like stated earlier in this thread, all information is just regurgitated, not from personal experience.

When have you tested your "guideline" in circumstances such as my own to tell me I need "ATLEAST 100 square inches per fish".

How did B. Scott get 26 Caribe (people would call him crazy just for having those alone in the 180). 7 Geryi (a good amount of fish for a 180 by themself) and a rhombeus all to live in a 180 without a single casualty? Good fish keeping, that is how. Not that I am saying I could do that, and I bet if he had to do that 10 more times he would have casualties in some of the tanks.

And as a side note, Truballa keeps referring to me as a new fishkeeper, which is also not the case.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The problem with your square inch rule is that it doesnt take into consideration the heigth of the tank. And yes....some will come in here and talk about how piranhas stay on the bottom but that is simply not true. They keep a distance from the top of the water...so in a deeper tank...they will use and be comfortable in a higher level in the tank.

What it comes down to is there is no true measurement for keeping these fish. I always go by feel. If a tank feels crowded then get rid of some of the fish....if it doesnt...then dont. If you are a contentious fish keeper this is really all you need to go my IMO.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

oh lord.

ok let me ask u a couple questions that i dont know the answer to.? have u ever raised small piranhas up? or did u buy ur rbp and tern at decent sizes?

ive owned many 6+ and 9+ inchers prior to getting into the baby pirayas.. and to b honest with u its a whole different experience raising lil ones. just like people said its hard to keep track of them and they are fast as sh*t when they attack which usually happens at nite which was my case. my tank was 8ft long x 27" x 18 tall. so i kno about footprints. in a tank that big i only had 10 fish in there and still had casualties and that tank is much more ideal for a large shoal at least in my opinion.

i mean if ur up for the work the go for it. ive seen ppl on this thread say there is arguing going on but there is none wutsoever. believe or not we are looking out for ur best interest or wut we feel it is, but i guess it is a lost cause.

if u do continue to pursue this just look at ur market for piranhas. when the point comes when u want to sell them will u be able to? cause some places have dead markets and u may be stuck with them hopefully not if that is ur plan. also wut are ur reasons for wanting to do this? after doing tons of water changes then when they get injured and u need to medicate, u want to be sure to have the correct motivation as to prevent the complacency i mentioned earlier.

i wish u the best of luck but i just hope u are ready for the road ahead of u. and if u are great. but no1 is getting on ur case so there is no need to shoot out at every suggestion ppl make. its just advice and ppl trying to help u better ur fishs situation.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> oh lord.
> 
> ok let me ask u a couple questions that i dont know the answer to.? have u ever raised small piranhas up? or did u buy ur rbp and tern at decent sizes?
> 
> ...


I had 6 2" RBP and raised them all up to their current size. Sold 2 of them at 4" to a buddy, and had one get eaten while I was on a 5 day trip.

Like I said earlier, I bought the piranhas knowing full well every single guideline and how large they get, how fast they grow and so on and so forth.

But thanks for the kind words and advice, I appreciate it.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Rooner said:


> A better question for me to ask is:
> 
> Which fish do I sell out of the 33 I have if I am looking to get a breeding pair (or a couple pairs)? Should I sell off all of the small ones and keep the larger? Or sell them randomly and hope for the best?


Personally....I go for looks. I am not really into pygos anymore but there are some that I think are amazing looking and some.....that just dont have the shape I like. That is how I decided when my tank felt crowded.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> A better question for me to ask is:
> 
> Which fish do I sell out of the 33 I have if I am looking to get a breeding pair (or a couple pairs)? Should I sell off all of the small ones and keep the larger? Or sell them randomly and hope for the best?


Personally....I go for looks. I am not really into pygos anymore but there are some that I think are amazing looking and some.....that just dont have the shape I like. That is how I decided when my tank felt crowded.
[/quote]

Thanks, that is what I am going to do. Unless someone else can tell me another way that may help me slightly in obtaining a breeding pair.


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

( This thread makes me happy in pants )

Mr Harley and every other person on this thread is 100% correct. ( They are experienced fish keepers and you would be wise to go along with their advice. ) As for myself, I am planning on getting a 180 gal, like you already have, not for a minute would I even think of not coming on here and asking for advice on how and how not to run my tank. It seems your extremely mind set on having a huge number of piranhas tank. ( Dont blame you, I was on the same way when I first came on here. ) I learned extremely fast that overstocking can lead to problems by some of the stories some people shared on this forum. Its not a good idea to come on a forum, ask for advice, and throw a fit on how you can make it work, ect. All they said was, it probably wasn't a good idea to keep that many piranha in a tank of that size.

Another thing I dont understand is, how do you open the thread up with a question like that, and then say you have had experience with piranhas? Doesn't make sense. Numbers of times you have changed your story of what your going to do.

In the future, I would be more respectful to people on this forum because it is an excellent source of information.

PS: This post was meant to be earlier on in the thread.


----------



## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Basically the whole thing boils down to his tank his choice. I don't get why all the wadded up panties. The fish will grow, they will thin themselves out through attrition and he'll have pretty much as many fish as are comfortable in his tank although they will probably be mostly scarred and one-eyed fish left. You people need to chill, getting po'd and hysterical over somebody elses tank is crazy. take some time and wait to see what happens. If he comes back and says his fish are all killing each other off and are beaten down, then you can laugh at him. If he comes back with all of them co-existing peacfully then you can ask him how he did it. All this drama is just arm flailing, he's going to do what he wants to do and it's his choice to make.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Rooner said:


> In the future, I would be more respectful to people on this forum because it is an excellent source of information.


I agree with keeping a low profile when you just signed up to a new tank (you only shoot yourself in the foot if you come off as all high and mighty from day one), but that goes the other way around just as much...
Respect is given where respect is due, and that's a mutual process.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Jeffers said:


> ( This thread makes me happy in pants )
> 
> Mr Harley and every other person on this thread is 100% correct. ( They are experienced fish keepers and you would be wise to go along with their advice. ) As for myself, I am planning on getting a 180 gal, like you already have, not for a minute would I even think of not coming on here and asking for advice on how and how not to run my tank. It seems your extremely mind set on having a huge number of piranhas tank. ( Dont blame you, I was on the same way when I first came on here. ) I learned extremely fast that overstocking can lead to problems by some of the stories some people shared on this forum. Its not a good idea to come on a forum, ask for advice, and throw a fit on how you can make it work, ect. All they said was, it probably wasn't a good idea to keep that many piranha in a tank of that size.
> 
> ...


If you have nothing to offer, why respond?

I wanted to hear from people who have done something similair to what I am doing, and the people who told me not to because of "guidelines" they have heard about don't count as solid advice to me.

If B. Scott just came on the forum and said he was doing what he did with his 180 and said he had piranha keeping experience, would you not say the same thing to him? Yes you would, and he would have shown you that it can be done.



> Basically the whole thing boils down to his tank his choice. I don't get why all the wadded up panties. The fish will grow, they will thin themselves out through attrition and he'll have pretty much as many fish as are comfortable in his tank although they will probably be mostly scarred and one-eyed fish left. You people need to chill, getting po'd and hysterical over somebody elses tank is crazy. take some time and wait to see what happens. If he comes back and says his fish are all killing each other off and are beaten down, then you can laugh at him. If he comes back with all of them co-existing peacfully then you can ask him how he did it. All this drama is just arm flailing, he's going to do what he wants to do and it's his choice to make.


Some of these guys think there way is the right way and there are no other ways to do anything.


----------



## booozi (Nov 4, 2005)

Jeffers said:


> ( This thread makes me happy in pants )
> 
> Mr Harley and every other person on this thread is 100% correct. ( They are experienced fish keepers and you would be wise to go along with their advice. ) As for myself, I am planning on getting a 180 gal, like you already have, not for a minute would I even think of not coming on here and asking for advice on how and how not to run my tank. It seems your extremely mind set on having a huge number of piranhas tank. ( Dont blame you, I was on the same way when I first came on here. ) I learned extremely fast that overstocking can lead to problems by some of the stories some people shared on this forum. Its not a good idea to come on a forum, ask for advice, and throw a fit on how you can make it work, ect. All they said was, it probably wasn't a good idea to keep that many piranha in a tank of that size.
> 
> ...


Dude, everyone has already said that basicly about the people on this site and how good they are and what not. We have already read it a bunch of times and i think we got it the frist time


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> In the future, I would be more respectful to people on this forum because it is an excellent source of information.


I agree with keeping a low profile when you just signed up to a new tank (you only shoot yourself in the foot if you come off as all high and mighty from day one), but that goes the other way around just as much...
Respect is given where respect is due, and that's a mutual process.
[/quote]

I definately respect members that deserve respect. Already after only a day on the board I have a lot of respect for you and Grosse Gurke. On the other hand, people like Mr. harley I have no respect for whatsoever.

Anyways, I'm out of here for now.


----------



## Woodro (Aug 31, 2005)

MR HARLEY said:


> > I have seen pics in the Aquario forum of 27 large Caribe with 7 Geryi, so I am assuming that if I take care of my fish properly I shouldn't have problems until they are much larger
> 
> 
> Thats B. Scotts tank , and no offense but I dont think your him, he is a very advanced aquarist ..
> ...


I fuckin hate people that assume everyone is fuckin stupid most people can do what ever they want if they research it properly maybe you should bring yourself off that high ass horse your on


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

I have spoken with Mr Harley before over pm's when there was another thread like this. He came off as an advanced keeper who has strong feelings about overstocking, I understand he may come off a bit strong at times, I think he is only trying to help.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, I think it's time to get this topic back on track again: it's clear that different people have different opinions, that different people have different ways of expressing their opinions, and that different people have different ways of exchanging data, and that's fine - as long as everyone respects the other for his/her opinions, ideas etc.

So people, please get back to the topic at hand, and talk about 33 baby Reds in a 180g tank, and how you guys think that will work out. No need to rip each other apart or criticize each others opinions or approaches, as it will only lead to derailment and animosity.
So keep this thread on track from now on, and don't force the mods to take drastic measures: it would be a waste if what potentially is a useful and very informative thread...

Thanks


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

yea u guys dont really kno harley at all. he is the first person i pm'd when i joined this board. even then his posts were like they are now. he helped me every step of the way giving me info on wut i needed to know.. told me where i needed to look. and for u newbies to make assumptions as to wut person he is to me is obsurd. ppl come off differently and especially on the internet u cant make assumptions to a persons character. if it werent for him i wouldnt kno half the sh*t i kno today

and i really dont think b scotts tank was a permanent fixation. i think he took apart that set up . im not 100% sure but i think sumone posted it only last a few months to half a year.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> Well, I think it's time to get this topic back on track again: it's clear that different people have different opinions, that different people have different ways of expressing their opinions, and that different people have different ways of exchanging data, and that's fine - as long as everyone respects the other for his/her opinions, ideas etc.
> 
> So people, please get back to the topic at hand, and talk about 33 baby Reds in a 180g tank, and how you guys think that will work out. No need to rip each other apart or criticize each others opinions or approaches, as it will only lead to derailment and animosity.
> So keep this thread on track from now on, and don't force the mods to take drastic measures: it would be a waste if what potentially is a useful and very informative thread...
> ...


Let me repeat this once more, as a reminder, and as a final warning who choose to ignore this...

One last remark, to end this off-topic discussion: newcomers making assumptions about 'veteran' members is indeed absurd, but no less than 'veteran' members making assumptions about newcomers... Think about that for a second before pointing fingers - that applies to both newcomers and long-time members.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> I understand , add a cannister filter or a wet/dry , Im not saying it cant be done , but if your atleast gonna try , try with the info provided and succeed


he offered his advice and support so i dun get it but yea best of luck to u


----------



## ~Silly~Spy (Mar 12, 2005)

lets see some pics man!


----------



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Rooner said:


> A better question for me to ask is:
> 
> Which fish do I sell out of the 33 I have if I am looking to get a breeding pair (or a couple pairs)? Should I sell off all of the small ones and keep the larger? Or sell them randomly and hope for the best?
> 
> I know there is no correct scientific answer for this, but if anyone has any advice that would be appreciated.


You will have males and females if you keep atleast 5 of the fish, I could probually pick out males and females and be pretty close, but it will be luck of the draw if you get them to breed regardless...

A buddy of mine is real good at picking them out, He has bought big ones from stores and wanted only females or males, and got it right..


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

mashunter18 said:


> lets see some pics man!


Trying to get drivers for my webcam right now, but I'll have a digital cam in about a week to share pics.


----------



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

> If you had unlimited resources, what would you do to ensure a breeding pair?


Well just have atleast 5 adult reds and try basic breeding tricks and see if they breed for you.

I bought 7 adult reds, and got them to breed for me in a 125 gallon in roughly 2 monthes.

If you say unlimited resources, I mean 4 or 5 tanks with 5 adult reds and breeding tricks like peat and water changes would almost guarantee breeding pairs.

You dont have to do all that though, they are pretty easy to breed, but its just luck of the draw if the actual specimans you have will breed, on top of getting the chemistry right...


----------



## mattd390 (Dec 5, 2005)

Lol, if you have unlimited resources, why dont you buy a friggin' digital camera now instead of next week so we can see a pic of this tank that everyone is yakin about.... JEBUS!


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

mattd390 said:


> Lol, if you have unlimited resources, why dont you buy a friggin' digital camera now instead of next week so we can see a pic of this tank that everyone is yakin about.... JEBUS!


I have one but I lent it to my sister for the week


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Just did an official count, still got 33.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Camera phone pics. Neither of the two pics show all the fish.

Edit: one more pic added.


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

Nice tank


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

You can see almost all of them in this pic, they were going crazy towards the right side for some reason in this pic.


----------



## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

[quote name='Rooner' date='Dec 23 2005, 01:39 PM' I definately respect members that deserve respect. Already after only a day on the board I have a lot of respect for you and Grosse Gurke. On the other hand, people like Mr. harley I have no respect for whatsoever.
[/quote]

^^ This needs to go into our future "Hall of Fame"







. I already gained respect for you. My take is that your fine for the short term. It is inevitable what will happen a year from now. My personal opinion on the 20G per fish rule is for water quality purposes but with all predators space is also important for a stress free environment.... I wish you the best of luck in your venture. I honestly can't fathom more than 10 pygos in a 180G. Here is a pic of Rhomzilla's former 240 Gallon tank with 10 pygos Good luck in your venture.

View attachment 88102


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

jerry_plakyda said:


> Rooner said:
> 
> 
> > I definately respect members that deserve respect. Already after only a day on the board I have a lot of respect for you and Grosse Gurke. On the other hand, people like Mr. harley I have no respect for whatsoever.
> ...


Wow 3 days on the board and I'm already nominated for the Hall of Fame! lol

Thank you for the kind words and wishing me luck, although hopefully I dont need any. I will take pictures at least once a week, and definately report any problems of agression, or losing any fish.

Have a good Holiday everyone.


----------



## Phtstrat (Sep 15, 2004)

Wow Rooner, thanks for putting up pics, that must be a crazy feeding time!

I think pretty soon you will need to upgrade though, or at least sell off some of them. You'll know when to start getting rid of some when you start seeing fin nips and excessive aggression.

Either way, for now, that is awesome!


----------



## divinelawyer625 (Dec 12, 2005)

Rooner said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


i'll bet.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Piranha Prince said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


i'll bet.
[/quote]

it wasnt a long term set up thats wut u guys nee dto comprehend.


----------



## booozi (Nov 4, 2005)

Nice tank and fish. GOod luck


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


i'll bet.
[/quote]

it wasnt a long term set up thats wut u guys nee dto comprehend.
[/quote]

You should know as well as anyone that it doens't take very long for piranhas to inflict damage upon eachother. The tank was taken down after 6 months without a single casualty.

I already said that even if B. Scott himself did that exact same tank 10 times, no way would there be no casualties in each and every one of those tanks.


----------



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Interesting experiment.









Annoying bickering.









Glad it's not on my buck!









Good luck.









(I used too many smilies in this post...







)


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Mettle said:


> Interesting experiment.:nod:
> 
> Annoying bickering.
> 
> ...


I'll keep you posted on what happens.

Also, it wasn't that expensive to set up.


----------



## Onion (Sep 20, 2005)

Thats crazy Rooner! How many have you lost so far ( I dont have time to read the whole thread) ?
Anyway, good luck with this project hope it turns out well


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Onion said:


> Thats crazy Rooner! How many have you lost so far ( I dont have time to read the whole thread) ?
> Anyway, good luck with this project hope it turns out well


Going on two weeks without a single death.


----------



## ~Silly~Spy (Mar 12, 2005)

dude that looks sick with that many babies in there. too bad they dont say that small..gl with your little experiment man, i will keep checking in to watch your progress


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

Rooner said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


i'll bet.
[/quote]

it wasnt a long term set up thats wut u guys nee dto comprehend.
[/quote]

You should know as well as anyone that it doens't take very long for piranhas to inflict damage upon eachother. The tank was taken down after 6 months without a single casualty.

I already said that even if B. Scott himself did that exact same tank 10 times, no way would there be no casualties in each and every one of those tanks.
[/quote]

it was probably taken down because of nips in my opinion. i dont kno b scott so i dont know the exact reason but u are using his project so much in ur posts it just doesnt support ur situation. i dont get y u take the one most extreme temporary success posts as an example.

y not use all the failures as an example/?hmm yeah cause there are far more of those to choose from. 
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...&hl=cannibalism
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=76104&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=67307&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=66568&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=53013&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=52257&hl=

but as i said previously good luck with ur set up


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

33truballa33 said:


> And what would you all have said to B. Scott before he put that crazy mix in his 180 gallon? You would have bet your life and everything that you own that it wouldn't work out? Well it did, and what I am doing is no where near as extreme as what he did. And I have a good knowledge of fish keeping so, I will post pictures in the future when they are all 6"+
> 
> Thanks for your opinions guys.


i'll bet.
[/quote]

it wasnt a long term set up thats wut u guys nee dto comprehend.
[/quote]

You should know as well as anyone that it doens't take very long for piranhas to inflict damage upon eachother. The tank was taken down after 6 months without a single casualty.

I already said that even if B. Scott himself did that exact same tank 10 times, no way would there be no casualties in each and every one of those tanks.
[/quote]

it was probably taken down because of nips in my opinion. i dont kno b scott so i dont know the exact reason but u are using his project so much in ur posts it just doesnt support ur situation. i dont get y u take the one most extreme temporary success posts as an example.

y not use all the failures as an example/?hmm yeah cause there are far more of those to choose from. 
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...&hl=cannibalism
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=76104&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=67307&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=66568&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=53013&hl=
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=52257&hl=

but as i said previously good luck with ur set up
[/quote]

You have too much time on your hands. I understand your opinion, that I shouldn't do it.

Well, I wanted to do it, and not only that, I am ALREADY doing it.

The reason I use his example so much is that it is a perfect example that you can succeed without sticking to your "20 gal per fish rule". What I am attempting is nothing near what he pulled off. I am even admitting there was probably a small amount of luck involved in him having no casualties. Hell, I'll be really lucky if I don't lose the odd fish in the next few months. As Judazz said earlier, this is quite the tank to own and watch. I can't figure out why you are fighting me so hard on this?

For everyone else that is supporting me on my large red belly project, I will keep updating this thread with pictures every week, starting January 1st when I get my digital camera back.


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

im not fightin u . u keep using one isolated project for support which doesnt make sense. and no it didnt take much time to do that.. theres a thing called a search engine







and its not my 20 gal rule. u are making the same assumption as judazz that i am preaching that.. reread my post and u can see the sarcastic tone well at least hopefully but yeah best of luck i just want u to see all ur option and i dont want n e newbies seeing this thread and thinking they can do wut b scott did cause that is wut happens on this site

so dont assume those links are solely for u.. its to help future newbs as well so they arent seeing one side of the fence


----------



## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

You also have to remember that Brian (B.Scott) had to do like 75% water changes daily also on his tank and i believe those fish he had in that tank were for sale.


----------



## Stugge (Jul 27, 2003)

Even I must say thats overstocking


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

Im sorry for this before hand.

Rooner, are you retarded? How is it you come on this forum ask for peoples opinions and sit here and try to give them a million reasons of why your right and their wrong. OPINIONS are OPINIONS for a reason, if you don't like them, dont ask for them. DO yourself a favor and stop insulting people, and I will follow your example.

He has too much time on his hands?

Your the one overstocking a tank 3x over again, have fun with the maintance, bub.

I don't usually insult people on this forum, but it has gotten to the point where your so incrediably annoying that I have let you know.

In the future please inform people of which opinion you dont want to hear so no one says it, that way we avoid 123 posts of bickering..


----------



## divinelawyer625 (Dec 12, 2005)

Jeffers said:


> Im sorry for this before hand.
> 
> Rooner, are you retarded? How is it you come on this forum ask for peoples opinions and sit here and try to give them a million reasons of why your right and their wrong. OPINIONS are OPINIONS for a reason, if you don't like them, dont ask for them. DO yourself a favor and stop insulting people, and I will follow your example.
> 
> ...










agree.. take it or leave it


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Jeffers said:


> Im sorry for this before hand.
> 
> Rooner, are you retarded? How is it you come on this forum ask for peoples opinions and sit here and try to give them a million reasons of why your right and their wrong. OPINIONS are OPINIONS for a reason, if you don't like them, dont ask for them. DO yourself a favor and stop insulting people, and I will follow your example.
> 
> ...


Maybe if you read what my plans were, you wouldn't be saying what you are saying right now. My tank is CLEARLY not overstocked currently, and if you would read and understand what I am doing, maybe you yourself wouldn't look like such an idiot posting what you just posted.

If you are jelous of my tank, go out and buy something similair yourself, don't go bashing on me.

Anyways, Merry Christmas all, and 33truballa33, sorry for giving you such a hard time.


----------



## bmpower007 (Feb 11, 2005)

Let the man do what he feels like, its his reds, his tank, his money good luck in the future and hope they become monsters


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

Instead of pulling quotes and embarassing you, I will let you go back and see how many times your "plans" changed.

Ok, so your tank isn't overstocked RIGHT NOW, won't be long until it will be..

Try reading signatures too, dip sh*t..


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Jeffers said:


> When you guys say water change do you mean i take my previous water in the tank out and replace it with tap water? If so, few questions.
> 
> 1) DO I leave my fish in during the water change?
> 2) How often should I do a water change?
> ...


You are obviously a complete n00b to fish keeping, so why don't you go somewhere that you may have something of value to say, like the Lounge.


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

I am going to leave it at that. Least I can do to make you look somewhat sane.


----------



## Rooner (Dec 22, 2005)

Jeffers said:


> I am going to leave it at that. Least I can do to make you look somewhat sane.


Why do you bother posting?

Anyways, please stay out of my threads seeings as you know nothing about fishkeeping.


----------



## thunderbird (May 6, 2005)

Although Harley doesn't know me, I consider him a friend because I learn from these good folk.
I can't wait to see the 33 adult rbps in the 180 gallon in 6 months











Rooner said:


> anyways ill b the mature one.. in no way was i trying to start an "arguement" but i guess some people are just sensitive. i have given u advice and if u really have the time to keep them then go for it.. just dont b surprised when u wake up and have missing fish. especially with a tank that is only 6 ft long. i had 10 pirayas in an 8ft 200 gal and lost 2 of them to cannibalism had 15 times filtration on it and fed two times aday. u cant make comparisons between other peoples tanks because no piranhas are the same but i do apologize for not being worth ur time. i will do my best not to disturb ur highness anymore
> 
> there are a lot of people on this site that can give u advice. but very few can give u advice taht is taken from direct experience. would u rather have something that is regurgitated back at u or is from direct experience?? everything i speak on is from experience as is harley. so take it as u will.


Ok thank you,

Now please tell me which one out of you or Harley that has tried what I am doing with the same kind of time and care that I am going to put into it?
[/quote]
Reds you mean tank raised reds OMG







..............such begginer fish , you want an award now ? You act as if your doing something special , I moved way past that along time ago , and there is no need to justify to someone of your no-it -all , name-calling stature .

I cant wait for your threads in the future , OMG I lost my fish ? WHY WHY WHY






















[/quote]

I bet you don't have too many friends, do you?
[/quote]


----------



## Jeffers (Dec 5, 2005)

Rooner said:


> I am going to leave it at that. Least I can do to make you look somewhat sane.


Why do you bother posting?

Anyways, please stay out of my threads seeings as you know nothing about fishkeeping.
[/quote]

Kind of funny to hear people make acussations like that. Tell me, what are you basing your information on?

And even if I didn't, why the hell would I care? I will still come in your threads you have no authority over me, I will just post in them to get on your nerves.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Jeffers said:


> I am going to leave it at that. Least I can do to make you look somewhat sane.


Why do you bother posting?

Anyways, please stay out of my threads seeings as you know nothing about fishkeeping.
[/quote]

Kind of funny to hear people make acussations like that. Tell me, what are you basing your information on?

*And even if I didn't, why the hell would I care? I will still come in your threads you have no authority over me, I will just post in them to get on your nerves.*
[/quote]
Yeah, if you want to get in trouble spamming is definitely one of the best ways to get there quick









Anyways, it's a pity to see PFury - or at least the ones that messed up this topic - lack the maturity to have a decent and civilized discussion. Not a problem per se (I don't give a crap if you want to cave each other's skulls in), if it wasn't for the bad influence your immature bickering has on PFury itself - this crap you guys post reflects on how this site is seen by both in- and outsiders as well.
Anyways, if even a friendly request doesn't help keeping this topic on track, there's only one solution:








You guys should be ashamed of yourselves...


----------

