# Child Punishment



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Do you believe in spanking children as a discipline technique?

I was watching "Super Nanny" tonight and it brought up a cool question. I have not formulated my thoughts on it yet..... whats yours?


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

I dont know... Im torn between my answer.

I mean, I know some kids (especially little punk ass brats) under a certain age SHOULDN'T get any physical spanking. Now the older punk teenagers that dont listen.. thats a different story.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

i hav e a 5 yr old son and when he warrants it he gets spanked no biggie, some ppl do some ppl dont imo some times kids need a butt whoopin when they act all out of line, i got whoopins, my mom did, my dad did, my aunts and uncles did, and were all fine no one needs to see a therapist, its aprt of life, kids test their boundries and our job is to let them know they reached it


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## flyboy (May 11, 2004)

when i was a child i guess i wasnt the best behaved. when i was around two i would slap people for no reason. my mom had a professor in phsycology that she talked to. he told her not to slap or spank me. he said to try and hug me. that didnt work. so she spanked me and i stopped right there. i dont believe physical punishment should be used for all punishments, but you have to use it once in a while. the best punishment is the threat, not the actual thing.


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## Papagorgio (Mar 30, 2004)

Absolutely you give your child an unbeliviable beating once in their life around 5 or 6. And use it as leverage for the rest of their lives. Timing is the key!!


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## Grimreaperman (Dec 14, 2004)

i'd shoot em with a pellet gun until they shut up. either that or duct tape.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

there are many ups and downs to spanking and not spanking..

It is however better to not spank.


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## Papagorgio (Mar 30, 2004)

Why don't you expand on the ups and downs Peacock? Instead of making a vague comment on the whole thing? My god....


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Papagorgio said:


> Why don't you expand on the ups and downs Peacock? Instead of making a vague comment on the whole thing? My god....
> [snapback]850458[/snapback]​


god dammit..

See Xenon.. this is the exact reason for the PMs i have been sending you..


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

Peacock said:


> there are many ups and downs to spanking and not spanking..
> It is however better to not spank.
> [snapback]850455[/snapback]​


YES THAT WAS A VAGUE AND dumb statement and that usually comes from ppl with no kids(like yourself) its all about the parent some feel its ok some dont, its kids that were and turned out good(like myself) and some who werent that turned out good theres no right or wrong answer, theres more than 1 way to skin a cat


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## Papagorgio (Mar 30, 2004)

NO No peacocks right there are ups and downs to spanking and not afterall it's another post. That is key to saying nothing.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

I am pro-spanking if the kids is aching to recieve one. However some kids do not need spanking to set them straight. All they need is some non-stop talking. IE: My uncle has 2 childern. The oldest does not need to be spanked at all because he is what you called "easily scared." My uncle just has to talk to him in a firm and sometimes scary voice along with a punishment such as grounding or taking away something of his temperaily as reenforcment.

Then comes the youngest. He needs a spanking from time to time because he is sly. He likes to challenge/trick people and uses his strengths on adults who lets him slide on things. At times he crosses the line and a talk and grounding will not do so the only way to get him acting straight again is a spank on the butt.

I believe a little capital punishment will vary from kid to kid. Its not right to say spanking is always right.


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

Peacock said:


> god dammit..
> 
> See Xenon.. this is the exact reason for the PMs i have been sending you..
> [snapback]850459[/snapback]​


































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I say spank your kids it gets the point across better.

I mean what are you gonna listen to a good WHACK or a

" I am very disappointed in you"


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## ReDraGon-> (May 24, 2004)

thoroughbred said:


> i hav e a 5 yr old son and when he warrants it he gets spanked no biggie, some ppl do some ppl dont imo some times kids need a butt whoopin when they act all out of line, i got whoopins, my mom did, my dad did, my aunts and uncles did, and were all fine no one needs to see a therapist, its aprt of life, kids test their boundries and our job is to let them know they reached it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thats a Good answer...but i dont really know what im going to do with my Little girl if she goes out of line 1 day..... I guess it depends on the situation..but i have a few years before i need to worry about that..till then ill just keep loving her for the baby she is


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Im for it if the situation warrants it. I was spanked as a child and I am completely normal.


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## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

I beleve that you shouldnt spank your kids, just shout really loud at them, when i was younger my mum would spank me, whereas my dads would shout at me. i no who i have more respect for now, my mum just irritates me.

Dont no the exact story but a law is being/in the process of being passed in England that states that if you spank your kid hard enough to leave a bruise, lump, scratch,cut or any minor swelling then you can go to jail for a maximum of 5 years! I believe that is a little harsh though


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Atlanta Braves Baby! said:


> I was spanked as a child and I am completely normal.
> [snapback]850500[/snapback]​


Eeeehmmm....







You sure?










Anyways, I don't know if I'm pro or con: there are numberous ways to teach kids about right and wrong, spanking just being one of them. I'm against violence, and subjecting your kids to it is wrong, imo. And I think it also sends the wrong message to your kids, that violence is a way to achieve what you want.
But on the other hand, it _is_ effective in many cases, although denying your kids certain things as punishment is at least as effective...

So I don't know - I guess the only way to get a final stance on this is to actually get kids of your own...


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> Eeeehmmm....:rock: You sure?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps you have a point my friend


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

nothing wrong with smacking a kid, just be crafty so you don't make a mark.


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

I think it completely depends on the kid.
All kids are different and respond differently to punishments.
I can use my girls as an example...

Jade 15 ~ Regular pain in the ass kid, mouthy but usually behaves after a FIRM talking to...
only had be to smacked a couple times in her life.

Autumn 14 ~ Satan's spawn... No amount of talking, threatening, grounding , taking things away or time outs have worked with this child. A good smack on the ass is the only thing that would work with her.

Riley 8 ~ She's so aware of "maybe" getting in trouble, she watches her ass.
I have never really had to yell at her, and never had to smack her.

I think you just need to try everything, and then go with what works best for each child.


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## JAC (Jan 19, 2004)

I feel it's not the best way to educate a child and that you should try other methods to discipline them first, but I agree that some kids just wont respond to more "civilized" methods and do deserve a good spanking.


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## remyo (Aug 26, 2004)

spanking off course


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Gordeez Beleive's in SPanking those little fockers.


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

beat the living fock out of em







jk


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Im for spanking. In fact thats how I learned to behave when I was young. If you dont spank your child how else are you going to punish them? Time outs? A restriction? Please, the child will just learn to deal. But with a spanking that equals pain. And NO child likes to go or put themselves through pain over something they want to do. So it will make them think twice before doing something. Im not saying beat your child, but spanking in moderation will quickly straighten up any kid.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Im for spanking[snapback]850702[/snapback]​


good !


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

I don't think it should be a primary form of discipline, but when it's needed it should be an option. Personally when my parents gave me the option I would think to myself "gee, a few minutes of my ass cheek hurting or spending hours in my room being bored... bring on the belt!" so I just don't see it being that big a deal. All this hippy bullshit of "when you spank a child he will think you don't love him" is just that, hippy bullshit. Those of us that got spanked know the effects better than some bleeding heart liberal cry baby p*ssy psychoanalyst who'll try and dictate how everyone else should raise their children.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> I think it completely depends on the kid.
> All kids are different and respond differently to punishments.
> I can use my girls as an example...
> 
> ...












I respect your opinion on this subject. Is 14 too old to be spanking though?

Lets say this.... should you spank a dog when he gets out of line? Is it any different than spanking a child? I mean, I would probably have a harder time spanking my child than spanking a dog....


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Lets say this.... should you spank a dog when he gets out of line? Is it any different than spanking a child? I mean, I would probably have a harder time spanking my child than spanking a dog....
> [snapback]850744[/snapback]​


Well, spanking bitches.....









Seriously though, slapping a pet when he has done something wrong is the easy way out - a dog or a cat doesn't know about right and wrong, and will never know: he just knows that when he does certain things it'll piss off his owner and he gets beaten for it.
There are other ways to discourage animals from doing certain things - violence is not needed when conditioning a pet (and that's all it is).


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## goodnews (Oct 5, 2004)

I have a mixxed point of view. I personally am not a parents but I am a child of a parent who did spank(never hard). but it can be used sparrinly and be effective but a mental or emotional punishment is 10X more effective.. 
P.S. good topic idea Xenon


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

I spank my kids, all of them. My oldest well she is 5 and knows the rules pretty damn well, so she really dont get spanked. My terrible two's twins on the other hand get spankins all the time, but on the butt and over a diaper. Dogs and kids are a different subject, not comparable at all. You ever been in public and a "woman" has her kids and they are crying yelling talking back and all the lady does is threaten them? f*ck that sh*t, i will spank in public i dont give a f*ck, and everyone is thinking man spank your f*cking kids lady. There is a big difference between spanking and beating. Most parents spank, most i see that dont have no control over their kids, some spank too much, and yell way, way too much, and the kid dont listen to that sh*t either, or just be scared. Whatever works, you gotta get through to your kids.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Xenon said:


> I respect your opinion on this subject. Is 14 too old to be spanking though?
> [snapback]850744[/snapback]​


I didnt get spankings, I got beatings
Im 21.80 Y/o right now I didnt stop getting hit till I was like 18

So no, 14 Is still a good age to beat the kids, IMO :nod:


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

i may be only 17 but i am for spanking, i certanly would do it with my kids if/when i have them if they did not behave.

my parents spanked me all the time when i was little and behaved badly, and i learned from it.....literaly a painfull lesson


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## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

You can spank your children once in a while, but only if they did something really wrong. But never spank them real/too hard, it must only be a signal.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

I think that it is important to remember one thing, there is a HUGE difference between a spanking and a beating. You can spank your child...and I am all for that under certain circumstances, but I am not for beating a child.

I don't mind spanking my children (4 year old boy, and 5 year old girl) IF the situation warrants it. But it really has to warrant it for me to do it. I tend to use the least restrictive form of punishment when at all possible.

For example...true story. Emilee (my daughter) was fighting with her brother (Braden) and was really being snotty and mean. Braden got mad and yelled, Emilee got mad and slapped the toy out of Braden's hand. I talked to them and told them why they should not be acting like that. Braden looked at Emilee and said "Sorry Emi". Emilee looked at him and said "Shut up dork"

Now Braden only got talked to and he turned it around...Emilee went to the next level. She got a STERN talking to about her attitude and I told her that she had better stop being so snotty or she would get a spanking. GET THIS!! As she walked away from me she said "you better re-think that Daddy"

Now she has blown off my first talking (which was firm but gentle), and blew off my second talking (which was very stern), and she ended up getting spanked for being so defiant. And she quickly turned around her attitude. She also did not get to hold her hamster for the rest of the night either.

That is kinda how Wendy and I handle it. If it is flat out defiance, they will get spanked. But if it is a good teachable moment, then we will talk about it. The interesting thing is that I rarely have to spank...maybe once or twice every six months. Once they get a spanking, they really do not want to get another one.

Just my thoughts...

Jeffrey


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

you kick ass Pastor jeff...

damn i hate religion.. but your 1 kool cat.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

i love a firm spanking, or even a beating, it turns me on









on a side note, dont see anything wrong with spanking, there was usually a firm talking to afterwords or sometimes before, depending. i have been told as a kid i was a sneeky little bastard son-of-a-bitch kid and spanking never worked, id still do it but in a different way, new approch or whatever, i had to be hurt from doing what i did from the thing i did it to to really learn, or id decide by myself if i thought it was wrong. my parents said that they never had to spank my brother because he was to scared and was good

spanking works for some and doesnt for others, others need it others dont, we just dont need a 23rd ammendment on it though, decide by self choice


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

Xenon said:


> I respect your opinion on this subject. Is 14 too old to be spanking though?
> 
> [snapback]850744[/snapback]​


14 years is too old for the "your gonna get it when your dad get's home" type of thing.
She doesn't get "spankings" anymore.
But recently she has been popped in the mouth, (no busted lips or anything) for telling me to "f*ck off", for telling me "No, I'm not gonna do anything you say", and for the oh so wonderful rolling of the eyes when told to do something. 
Teenage girls


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> Teenage girls
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i know, there bitchs, i ask them out all the time and they give me that f*ck off and sh*t stuff, im never gonna get p*ssy again


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

thoroughbred said:


> i hav e a 5 yr old son and when he warrants it he gets spanked no biggie, some ppl do some ppl dont imo some times kids need a butt whoopin when they act all out of line, i got whoopins, my mom did, my dad did, my aunts and uncles did, and were all fine no one needs to see a therapist, its aprt of life, kids test their boundries and our job is to let them know they reached it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


correct


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Im for spanking. In fact thats how I learned to behave when I was young. If you dont spank your child how else are you going to punish them? Time outs? A restriction? Please, the child will just learn to deal. But with a spanking that equals pain. And NO child likes to go or put themselves through pain over something they want to do. So it will make them think twice before doing something. Im not saying beat your child, but spanking in moderation will quickly straighten up any kid.
> [snapback]850702[/snapback]​










correct


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## pittbull breeder (Jul 14, 2004)

beat they little bad arse Its the only way.You send them to they'r room wow Ill never do that again yeah right.they'll probably just find something else to do in there like I did.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Im a firm believer in spankings also . NOT BEATINGS . Theres a difference between applying non damaging pain and discomfort opposed to physically damaging brutality . I believe in the Bible . I also believe when it talks about spare the rod and spoil the child . Everyone here doesnt believe in the bible i know. But im sure alot of us here can understand that spanking has been used for a very long time with families that had children to grow up normal that resulted in very stronge friendships with parent and the grown children . I was spanked, and so were all my other siblings . I spank my 3 year old daughter when she needs it. I also spat my one year old when he pushes it to the limit . They are smarter than you think . I only do this when i specifically instruct them to do something or not to do something . Or when they are misbehaving when i have taught them better . And most of the time its after i have told this more than once. Sometimes i dont spank at all . Sometimes my wife and i simply talk to them and explain to them on their level . Spankings shouldnt be used as an answer for every type of diciplinary action . 
Its also important to show love to your kids. And explain to them how you dont want to spank them. Play with your kids and show your love. Not just say it . 
Another important item is that you establish a parent realationship with your chlidren and not a friend relationship while their young. We are mommy and daddy, not your best friend . Do as we guide you to do so that as you grow you will take on the principles that we taught you . Now as they get older, the friendship will come. And as their wisdom and experience matures we as parents will be able to respect certain decisions they make and let them experience it themselve though they may fall sometimes . We will just be there and support them at all times . 
My children rarely get spankings because my wife and i have already established a healthy respect in their hearts that when we tell them something we are serious . There is a time for play and a time to be serious. And they already no it . They are good kids , and with the Lords help and guidence will grow up to be even better parents than ourselves. In a perfect world , each generation of parents should get better , not worse . But it doesnt always work out that way.


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## goodnews (Oct 5, 2004)

Amen pastor jeff


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I just look at how fucked up some of these kids are today with the "time-out" method and for some reason spanking doesnt seem so bad. Some of the youth today have no respect for anyone other than themselfs....it is sad. 
It wasnt that way when I was young....mouth off to a neighbor and you were lible to get your ass kicked by them and then again when you got home. Now kids can say and do whatever they want with little or no punishment. But hey....they are happy!!


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Wow, so it seems like the VAST MAJORITY on here is still for spankings. Good to know. I just dont know if I would have the heart to do it....


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Here in gay sweden spanking is Illegal







doh!


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

My nieces get them when they really out of line...most of the time I just threaten them w/ it...

Itz hard to hit a kid...but you got to to what you needed to do...


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## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2004)

i dunno.. I'm torn, i was spanked 3 times in my life, my father had other ways of dealing with me, he was very physicological in punishment. i got a bad report card, he'd make me take everything out of my room but clothes and things i needed for school. and i had to stay in my room for a while. he was also alot bigger than i was when younger so he allways had a way of intimidating me. but the worst hit i ever took from him was him saying "im just really disapointed in you"
man.. that killed me.


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## usmctowgnr (Nov 5, 2004)

There is a different is spanking and a straight ass whooping.
Spare the rod spoil the child.

Joey


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

spanking is must when called for, but try my method as well, thiers only one thing my kids fear just as much as a spanking and that is push ups..Diamonds baby all day :laugh: , half way up, up, half way down down...worked so well, when my wife pissed me off i told her to get down and give me flutter kicks...







but that didn't work out so well


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

I am actually APPALLED to see so many people that approve of such primitive ways of discipline. A 30 year old person slapping some 2-14 year old kid; doesn't that seem a little off the wall to you people? With so many other means of discipline (ie priviledge removal, etc) why does smacking your child have to be the method for so many of you?

A lot of you have mentioned something similar to this statement:



Several People said:


> It depends on the kid


Wrong; it depends on the parents. You know those really bratty kids that you see running around the shopping malls that totally control their parents? That's the parents fault for not issuing enough discipline.

You know the kids that mouth off to every person they see? Parents fault. Why? Monkey see; monkey do. Those bratty kids are EXACTLY like their parents, however the parents think that some type of behavior is unacceptable, but learned through them, and hits their kid(s) because of it.



Several People said:


> I'll give em a spanking if they warrant/deserve it


As mentioned above, that's utter bullshit. Kids act out because you let them, because they crave attention, or a combination of both. A firm, but very safe early upbringing is the key to setting up the rules in the future; which will not have to warrant spankings at a later time.

Pac


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## nfldRBP (Nov 30, 2003)

I think all kids are different, some will behave differently and need to be treated differently. Although i do not have kids, but when i was younger get slapped or whatever affected me in no way..i just figured it was better to stay on the good side.


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## crhisw (Oct 18, 2004)

if u need to use force, grab the belt!


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

grosse gurke said:


> I just look at how fucked up some of these kids are today with the "time-out" method and for some reason spanking doesnt seem so bad. Some of the youth today have no respect for anyone other than themselfs....it is sad.
> It wasnt that way when I was young....mouth off to a neighbor and you were lible to get your ass kicked by them and then again when you got home. Now kids can say and do whatever they want with little or no punishment. But hey....they are happy!!
> [snapback]851177[/snapback]​


yep. One reason we got all these kids killin other kids at school is because they dont have any respect for athority or anyone . Perhaps the parents were a little bit to friendly at times .


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Markosaur said:


> Here in gay sweden spanking is Illegal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


are you serious ! wow man . So so people still spank over there ?


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> I am actually APPALLED to see so many people that approve of such primitive ways of discipline. A 30 year old person slapping some 2-14 year old kid; doesn't that seem a little off the wall to you people? With so many other means of discipline (ie priviledge removal, etc) why does smacking your child have to be the method for so many of you?
> 
> A lot of you have mentioned something similar to this statement:
> As mentioned above, that's utter bullshit. Kids act out because you let them, because they crave attention, or a combination of both. A firm, but very safe early upbringing is the key to setting up the rules in the future; which will not have to warrant spankings at a later time.
> ...


As a kid i would have beat you down man . I was aggressive . The only thing that kept me in line was the respect of my father and later my mother that i would get my butt whooped if i jumped out of line . All kids are different . And there are some that wont listen to talk . Let me ask you something. What do you do when a kid looks up you and tells you NO ! when you try to talk to him or give him " time out" ? What do you do ? I had people try that stuff on me when i was just a child . I beat one baby sitter up pretty bad. I was only 6 . She couldnt handle me . But i eventually straightened up because of the healthy respect of my parents and their diciplinary actions . Some kids take longer, others learn right away . Some need spankings while others dont as much . And now i have a healthy respect for athority figures . I also have never been to juvi or jail . Why? It was because of my parents . I love my parents and thank them for the morals and values that they taught me. Do you not see the difference in the way kids act today and how they acted 30 years ago as far as unrulliness goes ? Kids get away with to many things these days. Some parents let the kids raise themselves . If spanking is so bad, then how come our generations of past of grown up just fine ?


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> I am actually APPALLED to see so many people that approve of such primitive ways of discipline. A 30 year old person slapping some 2-14 year old kid; doesn't that seem a little off the wall to you people? With so many other means of discipline (ie priviledge removal, etc) why does smacking your child have to be the method for so many of you?
> 
> A lot of you have mentioned something similar to this statement:
> As mentioned above, that's utter bullshit. Kids act out because you let them, because they crave attention, or a combination of both. A firm, but very safe early upbringing is the key to setting up the rules in the future; which will not have to warrant spankings at a later time.
> ...


wut u said i took offense to cuz basically ur saying i have bad parents and i dont appreciate ppl talking about my parents but lemme set u strait

i am prolly a little spoiled and i was a brat when i was growing up...and i never got that from my parents...its just they never hit me...theyd just say go to ur room ur grounded...well it doesnt work...sometimes u gotta intimidate the kid to let them know basically whose boss...sh*t im a foot taller then my mom and prolly way 100 pounds more then her and shell beat me and i still wont do ne thing to her cuz the ass whoopings and the punishments she gave me when i was younger showed me whose boss and i had to respect that...u guys are prolly gonna call me dumb for the statement o well peace


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

all i gotta say is you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you dont.


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

I have kids and it depends on the situation and you have to use diffrent punishments. You can't just spank, use time out, ground, take something for a few weeks or restrictions you have to change it up. If not they just get used to it and it won't work anymore. If talking to them doesn't work and they understand they are doing wrong then apropriate measures are taken given the situation.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Bilbo said:


> As a kid i would have beat you down man .


Why's that? Were you some fat slovenly child that would threaten to "smush" me?



> I was aggressive . The only thing that kept me in line was the respect of my father and later my mother that i would get my butt whooped if i jumped out of line . All kids are different .


That ain't respect; that's abuse. I wonder why you were aggressive? Hmmm............ Really perplexing... Cmon...



> And there are some that wont listen to talk . Let me ask you something. What do you do when a kid looks up you and tells you NO ! when you try to talk to him or give him " time out" ? What do you do ?


The child would do it once; then I'd take away what means the most to them and then they'll probably know I mean business.



> I had people try that stuff on me when i was just a child . I beat one baby sitter up pretty bad. I was only 6 . She couldnt handle me .


Wow... Soooo much violence from someone who didn't experience that as a child... WAIT A MINUTE??!?!?!?!



> Some kids take longer, others learn right away . Some need spankings while others dont as much . And now i have a healthy respect for athority figures . I also have never been to juvi or jail . Why? It was because of my parents .


Some kids WANT to take longer; good parents will make sure they learn right away. Wow... You're parents must be proud; you aren't in jail or juvi. WHAT an ACCOMPLISHMENT!!! You're a real productive member of society now!!! Good for you!



> I love my parents and thank them for the morals and values that they taught me. Do you not see the difference in the way kids act today and how they acted 30 years ago as far as unrulliness goes ? Kids get away with to many things these days. Some parents let the kids raise themselves .


Agreed that a larger percentage of kids get away with too much; they lack discipline. As previously mentioned, there are others ways of administering that said discipline. Beating up on infants isn't the answer. The parents with the bratty kids don't really do ANYTHING and let the kids get away with murder, or they act the same way the kids do... It's really that simple. As stated earlier; monkey see and monkey do baby.



> If spanking is so bad, then how come our generations of past of grown up just fine ?


You just got done saying that parents these days aren't disciplining their children enough... Did they turn out ok??? They are affraid to beat their kids because they don't wanna be their parents; now we have the exact opposite reaction; wouldn't you agree?

Pac


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

a good firm spankin is what works best i say

if you take away a prevlige they know they'll get it back sooner or later but the sure

as hell dont want that pain agian


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

I believe that spanking a child is in the best interset for the child. Young childern learn to behave or if they do not, then for their action comes an equal reaction. I do not believe in BEATING a child but I believe in spanking to teach a lesson. People we live in a time when we as parents can sometimes no longer punish our childern the way we see fit. It is sad to see that parents have lost some of their rights as parents. I was spanked when I was a child and learned to respect my parents and grown-ups.


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

Xenon said:


> I just dont know if I would have the heart to do it....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its hard and I don't mean just spanking but even turning off jeff corwin which is my sons favorite show. Punishing him at all makes me sad.


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## heffer2028 (Oct 10, 2004)

i got beat and i turned out fine.. so im gonna spank the sh*t outta my kids..(when they need it of course







)


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## Papagorgio (Mar 30, 2004)

You can't smack a cat and make a point. Cat's are free-spirited. They will just run away after a smacking. You can smack a dog. Dog's are loyal. The dog will come back wondering how to do make you happy. C=cats and D=dogs. Let's say K=kids. And you child is part C and D, so what happens when we smack K. Well best case is your K has some C and D in them mostly D. This will happen if you provide a loving environment E. Which in turns causes more L=loyality. So it basically goes like this E/C*L+D=K take care of your kids they need you as much as you need them and if C gets to high beat them for all your worth it lowers the whole value of K.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> Why's that? Were you some fat slovenly child that would threaten to "smush" me?
> That ain't respect; that's abuse. I wonder why you were aggressive? Hmmm............ Really perplexing... Cmon...
> The child would do it once; then I'd take away what means the most to them and then they'll probably know I mean business.
> Wow... Soooo much violence from someone who didn't experience that as a child... WAIT A MINUTE??!?!?!?!
> ...


 Violent ? If thats what you want to call it . I was agressive. I actually was a compasionate little boy that loved everything and every one . Its just that when someone else told me something to do that wasnt my parents , i didnt like it . And when they tried to make me do it, i resisted . Now how would you get me to do something if i did not want to do it ? And how would you take something away from me if i did not want it taken away ? 
I said that i would beat you down as a kid because you would be a push over to me that why . And you would have been . But my agressive behavior stopped as a larger kid . My parents firm an gentle relationship with me paid off. There were years that i did not get spanked after those days. Why ? Because there was no need . I was obidient . Do you see now ?

You say that i was a product of my spankings from my parents ? Well guess what . I had 3 other siblings that were raised the same way that was and they di not have my temper . They got spankings just like i did. But it was for different reasons . Now one of my brothers didnt recieve hardly any spankings because he didnt require it. He could just get a firm talking to in alot of cases and that was enough . I on the other hand required a firmer dicipline because talking or did not work with me at certain times . Nor did other forms of discipline at certain times.

Its hard for me to believe that you dont see that all children are different and some require spankings. 
You say people are getting tired of spanking their children these days? Well look where its taking us . Alot more school killings is one of them. But my point was that people have spanked for years and they still grew up fine. We will continue to use this type of dicipline and our kids will also grow up fine. Now tell me, what is the long lasting effects of spankings that are harmful to a child ? Please tell me that .
"Its so wrong for someone to say that ALL kids should not be spanked because you dont do it ."


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Papagorgio said:


> You can't smack a cat and make a point. Cat's are free-spirited. They will just run away after a smacking. You can smack a dog. Dog's are loyal. The dog will come back wondering how to do make you happy. C=cats and D=dogs. Let's say K=kids. And you child is part C and D, so what happens when we smack K. Well best case is your K has some C and D in them mostly D. This will happen if you provide a loving environment E. Which in turns causes more L=loyality. So it basically goes like this E/C*L+D=K take care of your kids they need you as much as you need them and if C gets to high beat them for all your worth it lowers the whole value of K.
> [snapback]851881[/snapback]​


Hahahahaha - Yes! Now my engineering mind can understand kids!


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Papagorgio said:


> You can't smack a cat and make a point. Cat's are free-spirited. They will just run away after a smacking. You can smack a dog. Dog's are loyal. The dog will come back wondering how to do make you happy. C=cats and D=dogs. Let's say K=kids. And you child is part C and D, so what happens when we smack K. Well best case is your K has some C and D in them mostly D. This will happen if you provide a loving environment E. Which in turns causes more L=loyality. So it basically goes like this E/C*L+D=K take care of your kids they need you as much as you need them and if C gets to high beat them for all your worth it lowers the whole value of K.
> [snapback]851881[/snapback]​


best post ever.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> I am actually APPALLED to see so many people that approve of such primitive ways of discipline. A 30 year old person slapping some 2-14 year old kid; doesn't that seem a little off the wall to you people? With so many other means of discipline (ie priviledge removal, etc) why does smacking your child have to be the method for so many of you?
> 
> A lot of you have mentioned something similar to this statement:
> As mentioned above, that's utter bullshit. Kids act out because you let them, because they crave attention, or a combination of both. A firm, but very safe early upbringing is the key to setting up the rules in the future; which will not have to warrant spankings at a later time.
> ...


ur an idiot its funny its always ppl with no kids trying to tell ppl with kids how to raise them stfu buttercup


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Bilbo said:


> Violent ? If thats what you want to call it . I was agressive. I actually was a compasionate little boy that loved everything and every one . Its just that when someone else told me something to do that wasnt my parents , i didnt like it . And when they tried to make me do it, i resisted . Now how would you get me to do something if i did not want to do it ? And how would you take something away from me if i did not want it taken away ?


That sure sounds violent to me. This also doesn't sound like someone that's very compassionate. Don't disprove yourself by calling yourself compassionate when you admit to beating on a babysitter and anyone other than your parents. As I've stated before, you saw your mentors (ie your parents) using violence as a of communicating an opinion; and you did the same. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Your "aggression" is stemmed by spankings and others forms of perceived violence or aggression from your surroundings; principally your parents.



> I said that i would beat you down as a kid because you would be a push over to me that why . And you would have been . But my agressive behavior stopped as a larger kid . My parents firm an gentle relationship with me paid off. There were years that i did not get spanked after those days. Why ? Because there was no need . I was obidient . Do you see now ?


How do you know you can take me? You've obviously got quite the ego there. Please actually respond to my statements and prove that you're a big man where it counts; in your mind. I've made several references to child psychology that you have blatantly failed to address. You assume that what you say is accurate without taking into account my point of view...



> You say that i was a product of my spankings from my parents ? Well guess what . I had 3 other siblings that were raised the same way that was and they di not have my temper . They got spankings just like i did. But it was for different reasons . Now one of my brothers didnt recieve hardly any spankings because he didnt require it. He could just get a firm talking to in alot of cases and that was enough . I on the other hand required a firmer dicipline because talking or did not work with me at certain times . Nor did other forms of discipline at certain times.


Every child is different due to their upbringing and experiences throughout their lives. Obviously they won't have the exact mentality that you do. You state that a firm talk seems to do the trick. Why wasn't that a method of choice before violence had to be implemented onto a child?



> Its hard for me to believe that you dont see that all children are different and some require spankings.
> You say people are getting tired of spanking their children these days? Well look where its taking us . Alot more school killings is one of them. But my point was that people have spanked for years and they still grew up fine. We will continue to use this type of dicipline and our kids will also grow up fine. Now tell me, what is the long lasting effects of spankings that are harmful to a child ? Please tell me that .
> "Its so wrong for someone to say that ALL kids should not be spanked because you dont do it ."


All children are different; however it's totally dependant on upbringing. Some parents will choose not to use violence as a means of discipline whereas some will choose to. This will totally change the aspect of the child with regards to the use of violence; however. You seem much more desensitized when compared to myself. I once saw a woman in the mall smack her kid and I asked her myself if she thought it would be good if I did the same to her. Which is really my point.

In our society, it's somehow ok to smack our kids but not OK to her our spouse or any others because it's against the law. Even if it's a light smack, that wouldn't go over well if you did it to your wife right? What's the difference here? The fact that their children? Shouldn't that be WORSE?



> ur an idiot its funny its always ppl with no kids trying to tell ppl with kids how to raise them stfu buttercup


I can really tell that your post was really thought out. To think that you're a parent really scares me actually. If you wanna try to critique my argument go ahead; but don't waste my time with your childish antics. I guess your parents didn't beat the sh*t out of you enough as a kid...



> if C gets to high beat them for all your worth it lowers the whole value of K.


Amusing analogy baby









@Xenon:  I'd like to hear your viewpoints thus far.

Keep it coming!

Pac


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

i like how u call everyone buttercup thorough lol


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

K fizzly said:


> i like how u call everyone buttercup thorough lol
> [snapback]853079[/snapback]​










Me too.

It seems like Pacman is taking a debate course this semester :laugh:

You can read all you want about raising children, and call yourself an expert.
Thats fine, whatever.
But do not come on here and tell people WITH kids that they are bad parents, when you have no idea about dealing with children day in and day out.
Maybe you should stick with your Dungeons and Dragons


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> Maybe you should stick with your Dungeons and Dragons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> :laugh: Me too.
> It seems like Pacman is taking a debate course this semester :laugh:
> 
> You can read all you want about raising children, and call yourself an expert.
> ...


No, it seems that I'm trying to use logic to assume certain things, however it seems that most of you are too feeble minded to attempt to critique my arguments with any degree of thought.

I never claimed to be an expert; I'm simply stating AND PROVING (Which NO ONE here seems to do other than Twitcho or Hyphen) via means of theoretical and physical evidence. No one here seems to be able to justify their actions when it comes to parenting and spanking; everyone just ASSUMES that it's ok without considering my position.

You people should READ my posts and attempt to respond in a more coherent and respectful manner.

EDIT: I didn't see that insult at the end. Go back to your Kelly Osbourne fantasy life; obesity combined with sheer vile looks and a coked out mind. You've got a lot going for ya.

Pac


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> No, it seems that I'm trying to use logic to assume certain things, however it seems that most of you are too feeble minded to attempt to critique my arguments with any degree of thought.
> 
> I never claimed to be an expert; I'm simply stating AND PROVING (Which NO ONE here seems to do other than Twitcho or Hyphen) via means of theoretical and physical evidence. No one here seems to be able to justify their actions when it comes to parenting and spanking; everyone just ASSUMES that it's ok without considering my position.
> 
> ...


Oh, ok... so your a psych major... That explains everything.








I haven't see you PROVE anything.

And btw, that's not me or Kelly Osborne in my avatar.
And who the f*ck are you to tell me what I have or haven't going for me?
You don't know me... So STFU!


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> No, it seems that I'm trying to use logic to assume certain things, however it seems that most of you are too feeble minded to attempt to critique my arguments with any degree of thought.
> 
> I never claimed to be an expert; I'm simply stating AND PROVING (Which NO ONE here seems to do other than Twitcho or Hyphen) via means of theoretical and physical evidence. No one here seems to be able to justify their actions when it comes to parenting and spanking; everyone just ASSUMES that it's ok without considering my position.
> [snapback]853234[/snapback]​


It's parenting dude, if you were to tell me this and that and all sorts of other well thought out sh*t on how to raise *MY* kids, I'd still say "yes that's very nice" and go about raising *MY* children the way I want them to be raised. I think a loving and attentive environment while teachng your kids life lessons beyond "don't hit your sister" are the keys to raising well adjusted and behaved children. Discipline is such a small part of what makes a child's development that I don't even see it being an issue. I think you can be a good parent regardless of how you discipline your child, and I think it's up to each parent to determine how to raise their kids. Nothing personal, but if I were a parent I wouldn't listen to you either, they're my children and I'd have too much vested in them to honestly take anybody but my wife's opinion very seriously. You can't expect much from this debate, everyone has a right to raise their children their own way so long as they aren't being cruel in their discipline. I was spanked, I know there is no argument that can possibly made to say it is cruel, that's pretty much it.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> It's parenting dude, if you were to tell me this and that and all sorts of other well thought out sh*t on how to raise *MY* kids, I'd still say "yes that's very nice" and go about raising *MY* children the way I want them to be raised. I think a loving and attentive environment while teachng your kids life lessons beyond "don't hit your sister" are the keys to raising well adjusted and behaved children. Discipline is such a small part of what makes a child's development that I don't even see it being an issue. I think you can be a good parent regardless of how you discipline your child, and I think it's up to each parent to determine how to raise their kids. Nothing personal, but if I were a parent I wouldn't listen to you either, they're my children and I'd have too much vested in them to honestly take anybody but my wife's opinion very seriously. You can't expect much from this debate, everyone has a right to raise their children their own way so long as they aren't being cruel in their discipline. I was spanked, I know there is no argument that can possibly made to say it is cruel, that's pretty much it.


Finally a reply... While I agree that every parent is going to raise their children differently and they have every right to do so; no one here seems to be able to justify the violent nature of spanking their children via some other means of disciplinary action. Everyone just assumes it's ok, whereas other forms of similar agression wouldn't be acceptable. (As mentioned in my previous posts) I'm not telling people their wrong per say, however I'd REALLY like to hear WHY they feel justified in hitting someone that, I feel, doesn't deserve it at all; especially when in the end it exposes the child to violence.

You say there is no argument to state that it's cruel; I tend to disagree. Agressive behavior towards other loved ones such as your spouse for instance, is criminal. Assault towards strangers is a crime. While the degree of pain inflicted is much less during spankings (at least I would hope so) the same process is being exhibited. Thoughts?



> Oh, ok... so your a psych major... That explains everything.
> I haven't see you PROVE anything.
> 
> And btw, that's not me or Kelly Osborne in my avatar.
> ...


I'm actually a business major darling. If you read my posts, I've stated lots of theories that help prove my argument. Please read.

I realize it isn't Kelly Osborne "Little Miss Brainiac". Sarcasm is good stuff eh?!

You sound like someone from Maury Povich... "YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!! f*ck Y'ALL!!!"

I think all of the fumes from the trailer park are getting to your head honey.

Pac


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

This is an optimum time to utilize the "Ignore" feature.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> Finally a reply... While I agree that every parent is going to raise their children differently and they have every right to do so; no one here seems to be able to justify the violent nature of spanking their children via some other means of disciplinary action. [snapback]853260[/snapback]​


They don't have to justify it, they are their kids. If you want to go deeper than that, it's classical conditioning, you punish immediately and swiftly when something wrong is done so that the child knows to associate punishment with that action. It becomes ingrained in it's mind, and that's the same reason physical pain is necessary to train dogs. You don't kick the sh*t out of your dog, but you administer a slap or jerk on the choke chain as punishment because a dog does not understand being grounded or why you are depriving it of it's privileges when the punishment is removed from the transgression.



PacmanXSA said:


> You say there is no argument to state that it's cruel; I tend to disagree. Agressive behavior towards other loved ones such as your spouse for instance, is criminal. Assault towards strangers is a crime. While the degree of pain inflicted is much less during spankings (at least I would hope so) the same process is being exhibited. Thoughts?[snapback]853260[/snapback]​


Assault and beating your wife are not the same thing as spanking and you know it. Comparing the two would be like saying "locking your child in his room without dinner is acceptable to you but why is it not ok to grab someone off the street and lock them in your basement without food?". It's two different things entirely. If you were to spank your wife as punishment I don't think you would receive the same treatment as if you punched her in the mouth, and in fact it's only unacceptable because your wife is an adult who can make her own decisions. You have no right to discipline her by spanking aside from the notion that the whole concept is ridiculous.

Your child on the other hand is in your care for it's development. It is not only your right but your duty as a parent to administer punishment and shape it's behavior into a productive human being. It is nowhere near the same thing as spanking your wife or spanking a stranger, and even then it wouldn't be a serious transgression like punching your wife in the face, it would just be you looking/acting stupid.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> I'm actually a business major darling. If you read my posts, I've stated lots of theories that help prove my argument. Please read.
> 
> I realize it isn't Kelly Osborne "Little Miss Brainiac". Sarcasm is good stuff eh?!
> 
> ...


Daisy is gonna rip you a new asshole for that, I just know it









Here's a hint, theories are just that--THEORIES. Which means, theyre not proven fact, theyre just opinions/hypothesis from some "philosopher" thats never actually taken part in their own experiment. Just like you and I are different from each other so are kids and parenting. You cant parent every kid the same. Each child has a different personality that will react differently to certain things. Like Daisy and her children. Theories are just a bunch of bull. There better on paper than when placed in reality.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

pacman-
how could you feel they didn't deserve it, if you are not there. and







you really consider spanking "violent"? anyone with kids knows there comes a time when every kid will test thier limits with thier parent's, and it is what the parents do at those times that determin how that child's self disapline develope's, you can't label spanking as something that is used with no explanation or cause, because the correct way would be unwritten rules that constitutes the belt, this way you and your kids both know that if they broke one of those rules, they knew the consequence in doing so, and you will find that after a certain age after experiencing the limits, they would rather not break the rules and a spanking will rarley be called for by "thier" own choice..

really, its in thier hands, but the bottom line is they "must" respect you enough to know that certain things will not be tolerated or argued about, like disrespect, stealing, lieing, cheating in anyway form, school work will be done on time and you will study or i will find something for you to do that would make studying seem like disneyworld, in no way will thier be a phone call saying you are being a class clown or hanging out with a bunch of fools doing stupid sh*t.. eventually they get the point and with a close watch on them and !"consistancy"! it will all fall in place and be natural for them not to do stupid sh*t..

of course as many said its not all about disapline, but having high expectations for your kids (i have learned) actually motivates them to do the right thing and try and earn your respect. this way time with you will be a hell of alot more pleasant.







a friend of mine's wife had a "bright" idea and thier kid Pretty much does what the hell he wants, so shes starting a system where if he's good he gets a check mark for the day, and at the end of the week if he has 7 checks or whatever he gets a prize...uuuhhhhhhhh....no.. f*ck the bribery, f*ck checks, f*ck the stars, f*ck your school counsler, grab the belt, do whats right and put your kids in line.


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## ChErRiEliPz510 (Nov 17, 2003)

A lil' spankie is okay..but if it involves a fist, large objects, hard objects, etc...Thats def..a no no!!


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

ChErRiEliPz510 said:


> A lil' spankie is okay..but if it involves a fist, large objects, hard objects, etc...Thats def..a no no!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, I got the belt and the fly swatter (the metal end of it) when I was little...hahaha I turned out okay.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Instead of addressing the posts by Ms. Natts, Twitcho and Liquid, I'll sum up a point with the following question:

"Do you believe that spanking (a means of violence) is the only way to discipline your child regardless of who they are?"

Pac


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> Instead of addressing the posts by Ms. Natts, Twitcho and Liquid, I'll sum up a point with the following question:
> 
> "Do you believe that spanking (a means of violence) is the only way to discipline your child regardless of who they are?"
> 
> ...


Im not any of the names posted above...
But Its one of the Main discipline's.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> Instead of addressing the posts by Ms. Natts, Twitcho and Liquid, I'll sum up a point with the following question:
> 
> "Do you believe that spanking (a means of violence) is the only way to discipline your child regardless of who they are?"
> 
> ...


Pac,

There are quite a few problems in your statements, they are good statements, but there are some flaws (for lack of a better term).

You have many many references to spaking being a "means of violence" which creates a problem. You are taking two different words and trying to combine them into one, which sometimes is accurate, and other times is not.

For example...when I spank my children, I am not being violent with them. There is a huge difference between a spanking and a violent beating. Are there parents that are violent in their dicipline? Sure...but that goes way beyond spanking. If Emilee or Brady get a swat, it is a form of corporal punishment. That is why it should be used for only the most extreme behavioral issues that are founded in an action that is going to cause them harm, death, or utter defiance.

You asked if spanking is the only way to discipline...definately NO! If someone does that, then I believe that they have crossed the line into violence. If I were to give you a statistic (as best I can without the actual data...so this crap is off the top of my head) I would say that I only have to spank maybe 1-2% of the time. Why? Because I have spanked from the start for issues that I stated above, and they know that if they cross that "line" that they will get something that they do not want. So the spanking lasts way longer than just for the moment that it is given.

Other things that I do? I talk to them (Here is why Daddy does not want you to do that), I get stern with them (I TOLD YOU NO!) which is usually followed with a loss of something they like (holding their hamster, loss of TV, sent to their room, etc).

*Xenon* - you are very correct! It is VERY hard to discipline them. But if I don't follow through with my discipline (talking to them through to spanking) they will grow up to be total jerks of adults.

Thank God, so far (and I do mean so far) I have been blessed with children that are very tender hearted and sweet. God knows they got it from their mother.

Jeffrey


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> Instead of addressing the posts by Ms. Natts, Twitcho and Liquid, I'll sum up a point with the following question:
> 
> "Do you believe that spanking (a means of violence) is the only way to discipline your child regardless of who they are?"
> 
> ...


not the only way but yes for certain rules that should not be tolerated, thier are other forms for lesser warrented actions, but it is always thier for an option and the consistency to back it up if need be...i've said this on anouther thred but i used to have a problem with my kids, but the biggest problem was my wife playing lawyer and argueing the same sh*t your saying, so everytime i went to disapline my kids she would chime in and argue with me about it right in front of them...

so finally i said im tired of being made the bad guy, you want to be johny f*cking cockring..no problem, i refuse to disapline them, and by all means you are 100% in charge in that area..do what you want your going to anyway :laugh: i was beyond pissed
..she tryed the time out and everything else, they had no respect for any repicution and she basically for the 1st time in her friggin life admitted she was wrong and begged me to beat the litte pricks









thier has to be a final line that your kids do not want to cross and ussually that lyes with the fathers belt, but thier are also other important aspects that weigh in here in thier life, how much quality time you spend, respecting them as individuals and giving them the benifit of the doubt untill prooven others wise, make them earn your trust so theyll think twice about loosing it.


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Daisy is gonna rip you a new asshole for that, I just know it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you understand what she is saying pac? Good job nat you took the letters outta my fingers. You cant live your life out of a book. You have no kids of your own so you will have a very hard time trying to get anything but your full of B.S from a real parent. You do have the right to have your own opinion but it holds no serious weight. You are consumed by your psych books, they have psyched you out. Kinda like this: pac you do know exactly what you are talking about, you have further knowledge than a real parent, your opinions are fact, and we all can learn from you. Psych!









Pastor Jeff, the more posts i see from you the more respect i have for you. Pac you can learn a lot from a man like pastor Jeff. The only thing you are doing is showing us you are good at arguing about stuff you only have read about. Some people are very good at arguing about stuff they are wrong about, usually because they dont know they are wrong.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

Xenon said:


> This is an optimum time to utilize the "Ignore" feature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
























howd you know























i put someone on my ignore list just this morning when i looked at this thread and said

i had enough of seein these post







but ill look at his other post not in the lounge









it took quite a bit for me to use this new ignore list feature too


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Pac,
> 
> There are quite a few problems in your statements, they are good statements, but there are some flaws (for lack of a better term).


There are flaws in every argument baby











> You have many many references to spaking being a "means of violence" which creates a problem. You are taking two different words and trying to combine them into one, which sometimes is accurate, and other times is not.
> 
> For example...when I spank my children, I am not being violent with them. There is a huge difference between a spanking and a violent beating. Are there parents that are violent in their dicipline? Sure...but that goes way beyond spanking. If Emilee or Brady get a swat, it is a form of corporal punishment. That is why it should be used for only the most extreme behavioral issues that are founded in an action that is going to cause them harm, death, or utter defiance.


Violence is defined as the following:

"Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence"

While I don't think that spanking is an extreme case of violence; it is nonetheless violent in nature. So therefore, when someone causes physical harm, a form of violence is being exerted upon them.



> You asked if spanking is the only way to discipline...definately NO! If someone does that, then I believe that they have crossed the line into violence. If I were to give you a statistic (as best I can without the actual data...so this crap is off the top of my head) I would say that I only have to spank maybe 1-2% of the time. Why? Because I have spanked from the start for issues that I stated above, and they know that if they cross that "line" that they will get something that they do not want. So the spanking lasts way longer than just for the moment that it is given.
> Other things that I do? I talk to them (Here is why Daddy does not want you to do that), I get stern with them (I TOLD YOU NO!) which is usually followed with a loss of something they like (holding their hamster, loss of TV, sent to their room, etc).


So, seeing as spanking is violent in nature and there are legitimate alternatives for disciplining your children; wouldn't you think that spanking is unnecessary?

Let's say a child was raised so that something other than spanking was said to be the punishment for people going "over the line"; wouldn't that work in theory?

Thanks for your post Mr. Pastor Jeff











> not the only way but yes for certain rules that should not be tolerated, thier are other forms for lesser warrented actions, but it is always thier for an option and the consistency to back it up if need be...i've said this on anouther thred but i used to have a problem with my kids, but the biggest problem was my wife playing lawyer and argueing the same sh*t your saying, so everytime i went to disapline my kids she would chime in and argue with me about it right in front of them...


See my last comment to Pastor Jeff about alternative methods.



> thier has to be a final line that your kids do not want to cross and ussually that lyes with the fathers belt, but thier are also other important aspects that weigh in here in thier life, how much quality time you spend, respecting them as individuals and giving them the benifit of the doubt untill prooven others wise, make them earn your trust so theyll think twice about loosing it.


I'm glad to see that someone mentioned respect/trust. Isn't this the greatest deterrent? Making my parents disapointed or upset was typically enough to generally keep me in line. What I'm saying here is that a lot of people just start using the spankings as the ultimate means of disciplinary action; whereas something else that is implemented in it's place at an early stage can do the exact same job. The kids will quickly come to realize what is that "ultimate" punishment that they do NOT wanna receive.

Thanks for another mature post.

Pac


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

Pac you have an answer for everything. You are wasting your time typing all this stuff. Again you have no kids. It would be nice if your theories worked as well as you think they do, but again this is something i would expect from someone who has never experienced the pleasure of raising a child. You have yet to step into the world of child raising. Difference between me and you, you make up scenarios and correct it, Me on the other hand scenarios are brought to me at a high rate of speed every day 7 days a week 24hrs a day and i correct it in reality. There is always other ways to discipline, but sometimes spanking works the BEST! You may some day have the pleasure and find out for your self, and good luck to you if and when you do.

P.S. you still have more quoting to do so boar us more with your hippy like thoughts


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Daisy is gonna rip you a new asshole for that, I just know it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, I don't have time for this kid and his psycho babble bullshit.
No matter how many people WITH kids give real life examples, this kid is still going to act like he's all knowing in raising children, when all he's done has read about it in a couple of psych books :laugh:

It's funny to me though how Mr.Debate king can't "debate" without slinging unjustified insults like the trailer park comment.
He's now blocked, so I don't have to read any more of his sh*t..

Thanks for the reminder of the block feature Xenon


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> :laugh: Me too.
> It seems like Pacman is taking a debate course this semester :laugh:
> 
> You can read all you want about raising children, and call yourself an expert.
> ...


exactly pac u cant tell anyone how to raise kids if u have no idea , which you dont cause you dont have any duh!!!! pretty simple argument , like i said b4 its cases where parents do spank kids and they turn out fine and when they dont that turn out fine , just like anything else it depends on the kids , i didnt need to get spankings cause i listented after the 1st whoopin, my brother never listened and got his ass whooped more , it took me 1 whooping to straigten up , it took him 3/4 cause he was hard headed and were both just fine


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I have no kids, but might have in the near future. I'll choose what discipline method works best for the child, if scolding or grounding works fine then great, if not spanking might be used.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

the grinch said:


> Pac you have an answer for everything. You are wasting your time typing all this stuff. Again you have no kids. It would be nice if your theories worked as well as you think they do, but again this is something i would expect from someone who has never experienced the pleasure of raising a child. You have yet to step into the world of child raising. Difference between me and you, you make up scenarios and correct it, Me on the other hand scenarios are brought to me at a high rate of speed every day 7 days a week 24hrs a day and i correct it in reality. There is always other ways to discipline, but sometimes spanking works the BEST! You may some day have the pleasure and find out for your self, and good luck to you if and when you do.
> 
> P.S. you still have more quoting to do so boar us more with your hippy like thoughts


I try to answer everything so that everyone doesn't feel that I'm avoiding their various points; it's the best way to explain my viewpoint. Just because I currently have no children doesn't mean that I can't have theoretical viewpoints on contraversial topics like spanking. I've never stated that you CAN'T spank your kids; I just don't understand why you do for the various reasons I've already taken the liberty to post. You may have the real life experience; however what I'm trying to say is that your methods MAY NOT be justified. I can't say that what you're doing is wrong; however I personally don't agree with you for the reasons that I am debating.

PS: I'm hardly a hippy good sir











> Nah, I don't have time for this kid and his psycho babble bullshit.
> No matter how many people WITH kids give real life examples, this kid is still going to act like he's all knowing in raising children, when all he's done has read about it in a couple of psych books :laugh:
> 
> It's funny to me though how Mr.Debate king can't "debate" without slinging unjustified insults like the trailer park comment.
> He's now blocked, so I don't have to read any more of his sh*t..


Just remember who started slinging insults first, honey. The old saying goes "Don't poke the bear kids." Also, I've never taken a psych class in my life. I have a few philosophy classes behind my belt, however I'm only currently enrolled in my third one.

Instead of getting all defensive, one should attempt to defend their position instead of using the block feature.



> exactly pac u cant tell anyone how to raise kids if u have no idea , which you dont cause you dont have any duh!!!! pretty simple argument , like i said b4 its cases where parents do spank kids and they turn out fine and when they dont that turn out fine , just like anything else it depends on the kids , i didnt need to get spankings cause i listented after the 1st whoopin, my brother never listened and got his ass whooped more , it took me 1 whooping to straigten up , it took him 3/4 cause he was hard headed and were both just fine


I don't think that you've read anything that I've posted if that's your current position. Read my initial posts on child development and the early effects of violence. Also read my above statement about not having children









Pac


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## nova (Aug 9, 2004)

I get my ass kicked by my dad all the time, it never taught me anything but to run away and fear him. Instead of teaching me to do stuff that i wouldnt get in trouble for, I learned how to avoid the punishment, which was run away. knowing that, If i had kids i wouldnt hit them, but make there life hell like take ALL there possesions away and stuff like that.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> :laugh: Me too.
> It seems like Pacman is taking a debate course this semester :laugh:
> 
> You can read all you want about raising children, and call yourself an expert.
> ...


your my hero daisy. You wont change this persons mind. He or she thinks they are the only one thats right . And thats why he wont ever be a good parent. And thats the truth .


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> That sure sounds violent to me. This also doesn't sound like someone that's very compassionate. Don't disprove yourself by calling yourself compassionate when you admit to beating on a babysitter and anyone other than your parents. As I've stated before, you saw your mentors (ie your parents) using violence as a of communicating an opinion; and you did the same. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Your "aggression" is stemmed by spankings and others forms of perceived violence or aggression from your surroundings; principally your parents.
> How do you know you can take me? You've obviously got quite the ego there. Please actually respond to my statements and prove that you're a big man where it counts; in your mind. I've made several references to child psychology that you have blatantly failed to address. You assume that what you say is accurate without taking into account my point of view...
> Every child is different due to their upbringing and experiences throughout their lives. Obviously they won't have the exact mentality that you do. You state that a firm talk seems to do the trick. Why wasn't that a method of choice before violence had to be implemented onto a child?
> All children are different; however it's totally dependant on upbringing. Some parents will choose not to use violence as a means of discipline whereas some will choose to. This will totally change the aspect of the child with regards to the use of violence; however. You seem much more desensitized when compared to myself. I once saw a woman in the mall smack her kid and I asked her myself if she thought it would be good if I did the same to her. Which is really my point.
> ...


The truth of the matter is this..... i am a 29 year old man that is not violent at all. Im not even agressinve like you are saying. That was a " stage" that i went through. I am in fact a very compasionate person that feels for others. I am not the same person that i was when i was little , thanks to my parents raising. I love my parents and haved had a good life .

So this is my question , what were the repacutions of my parents spankings? What is negative impact that it had on me that i am suffering from now ?


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Plain and simple guys and gals. Your not going to change Pac mans mind. And im not here to do so nor do i think anyone else here is. And i for one dont really care if he disaproves of me spanking. I spank...... thats just how it is. My kids will also spank when they have children. I do it because i believe in it . I believe in it because i have seen and liked the results. I also believe in it because the bible says it works . Thats all i need to know Peace.


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

nova said:


> I get my ass kicked by my dad all the time, it never taught me anything but to run away and fear him. Instead of teaching me to do stuff that i wouldnt get in trouble for, I learned how to avoid the punishment, which was run away. knowing that, If i had kids i wouldnt hit them, but make there life hell like take ALL there possesions away and stuff like that.
> [snapback]854459[/snapback]​


I'm sorry to hear that Amber








All kids are different and you are one of those kids that spanking didn't work with.
That's why I said in an earlier post that not all kids need spanking.
But sometimes taking things away doesn't work for some kids, like my daughter.
She got in trouble for telling me "no, do it yourself.. I'm not doing anything". Well the 1st thing to go was her computer. She kept up with the smart ass attitude, so the DVD player and her TV in her room were taken out. She kept going and phone privilages were taken away. Not to mention she was grounded from day 1 of this. next was her stereo.
She was with out all of this for 2 days and still kept that sh*t attitude so, I grounded her from her room... LOL... Stating that privacy is a privilage... She was grounded from all of this for over a week... And still had the attitude which was getting worse. So finally fed up with her sh*t, I smacked her ass hard.... An hour after the smacking, I was cooking dinner and she came in the kitchen, Said she was sorry, and said that she would work on her attitude.
If I hadn't smacked her, she could have carried on with out anything for a long time.
She's a stubborn little sh*t.
So, taking things away doesn't work for all kids... not for that one of mine.
A good smack was what she needed to put her in place.


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

Bilbo said:


> your my hero daisy. You wont change this persons mind. He or she thinks they are the only one thats right . And thats why he wont ever be a good parent. And thats the truth .
> [snapback]854471[/snapback]​


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## mrspikes (Aug 10, 2004)

ya i think if you can do it a couple times and scare your kids with the idea then yes its ok.......now on the other hand if you do it and they dont change there is no point in keep on doing it you just get a red ass and a sore wrist. It shouldnt be too extreme where your kids fear you like hitting them in the face but i would spank them it can serve as a good technuiqe......although many of the same results can be had as well through other forms of disipline such as timeouts........it all depends on the kid.....with that being said i have the 2nd most amount of posts today with this post so im gonna leave before i get bumped down on the list


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Bilbo said:


> Plain and simple guys and gals. Your not going to change Pac mans mind. And im not here to do so nor do i think anyone else here is. And i for one dont really care if he disaproves of me spanking. I spank...... thats just how it is. My kids will also spank when they have children. I do it because i believe in it . I believe in it because i have seen and liked the results. I also believe in it because the bible says it works . Thats all i need to know Peace.
> [snapback]854495[/snapback]​


Good sir, I am very much open to suggestion however I have no reason to believe that smacking someone a tenth of my age is going to accomplish anything.

As for what effects violence has had on you; that's very hard to determine seeing as I really don't know you. I can tell you that the you are carrying on the cycle of violence that you experienced as a child, with your children. Other than that; I'm not a psychologist and it would be wrong to make assumptions of you based on what you've posted thus far.

I strongly feel that you shouldn't be bringing the bible into this. That's a totally different viewpoint as well. You probably won't like my opinions there either











> your my hero daisy. You wont change this persons mind. He or she thinks they are the only one thats right . And thats why he wont ever be a good parent. And thats the truth .


Are you oblivious to my posts? Please see this snipet:



My LAST Post said:


> Just because I currently have no children doesn't mean that I can't have theoretical viewpoints on contraversial topics like spanking. I've never stated that you CAN'T spank your kids; I just don't understand why you do for the various reasons I've already taken the liberty to post.


I've never tried to impose my beliefs; rather I'm trying to understand yours. If you can't even try to assess where I'm coming from; I believe that you are the one in the wrong. Calling me a supposed bad parent just based on an opinion really tells me about your character. I highly believe that you shouldn't start slinging insults around unless you wanna get lashed at back.

Pac


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

this sucks, cause i can stil read a ignored persons post in quotes


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

hehe, this will make a cool avatar.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Despite being divorced, my kids have always been respectful around me unlike being with the mother. the kid needs to know you mean business from the beginning. Once you back down they think they got you by the balls. When warranted i believe ass whoopings are in order imo.


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## Bilbo (Aug 15, 2004)

Pac said i was carrying on the cycle of violence . Well if you feel that spanking is violent then i guess im a violent person. Cause i sure do spank my kids . But you probably dont see yourself as a "syco babble" like i see you right ? Im assuming that you see yourself as a pretty intelligent individual correct ? So you see our logger head dont you . We wont get anywhere because we both see ourselves differently as we see each other and we also both feel that were right .

So i will keep spanking and you can keep kidding yourself until your so stressed out after haveing 2 or 3 kids and all you do is tickle their ears with syco babble.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> Violence is defined as the following:
> 
> "Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence"
> 
> ...


Pac,

You just confirmed my stance. You cannot define violence as you did, and then turn around and say that spanking is violence. I do not violate, damage, or abuse my children when I spank them. I am sure that some parents may, but I do not. So your foundation of violence does not hold for this situation. IF you can somehow illustrate to me that what I am doing by spanking is for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing my children, I will whole heartedly listen...but you cannot say that for two reasons...

1. You have never see me spank my kids, so you do not know if it is indeed creating an atmosphere of violation, damage or abuse.

2. The positive results that come from a spanking (in situations that I discussed previously) cannot exsist in the same definition as you stated above. How can a positive result come from the same definition where violation, damage, and abuse? It just can't be...yet there are positive results.

If you choose, when you have children, not to spank...that is perfectly o.k. with me. I won't sit here and tell you that your manner/choice in discipline is negative...any more than you can say the same about mine.

In the end, both sides can find enought statistics to support thier style of discipline. This is kind of like nailing your foot to the floor and then trying to run in a straight line.









Good stuff Pac! I agree...great conversation!

Jeffrey


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Bilbo said:


> Pac said i was carrying on the cycle of violence . Well if you feel that spanking is violent then i guess im a violent person. Cause i sure do spank my kids . But you probably dont see yourself as a "syco babble" like i see you right ? Im assuming that you see yourself as a pretty intelligent individual correct ? So you see our logger head dont you . We wont get anywhere because we both see ourselves differently as we see each other and we also both feel that were right .
> 
> So i will keep spanking and you can keep kidding yourself until your so stressed out after haveing 2 or 3 kids and all you do is tickle their ears with syco babble.
> 
> ...


Not quite sure what you're saying here Bilbo... Are you calling me a babbling psycho? I sure hope not. All I've done is illustrate my various points on the matter. We may very well get somewhere if you find the liberty to post justification other than "They listen when I do it". As I've mentioned before; I'm very open to suggestion, and I will try to defend my points against anything that you bring up. If you can stump me; then I guess you got me









BTW: What's a logger head? Sorry if that sounds dumb











> You just confirmed my stance. You cannot define violence as you did, and then turn around and say that spanking is violence. I do not violate, damage, or abuse my children when I spank them. I am sure that some parents may, but I do not. So your foundation of violence does not hold for this situation. IF you can somehow illustrate to me that what I am doing by spanking is for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing my children, I will whole heartedly listen...


To the Vicar









I actually can take that stance. All we have to do is fire up dictionary.com and delve into the definition of "violating". Here we go:

"To do harm to (property or qualities considered sacred); desecrate or defile."

Now, so you don't come back at me, I will go into a bit of detail here. You cannot argue that harm is being inflicted on the child. Obviously, they do NOT want to get spanked, therefore harm is being delt. I would consider a child to also be something sacred. By this, you are in fact violating, thus proving my point that violence is being usedl; even in a milder or supposedly nurturing form.



> I will whole heartedly listen...but you cannot say that for two reasons...
> 
> 1. You have never see me spank my kids, so you do not know if it is indeed creating an atmosphere of violation, damage or abuse.
> 
> 2. The positive results that come from a spanking (in situations that I discussed previously) cannot exsist in the same definition as you stated above. How can a positive result come from the same definition where violation, damage, and abuse? It just can't be...yet there are positive results.


1. I proved the atmosphere of violation above; even without seeing it. I'm sure you aren't running around and slugging your children, however unnecessary violence is still just that; unnecessary.

2. The way I see it, the only positive is the immediate reaction of the child. Sure, they shut up right away and seem to well aligned, however the constant use of violence will desensitize a person to the point where they no longer see good from bad; when it comes to violence that is. Most of the people that are here supporting spanking have typically been spanked as a child. I find it VERY odd that there is no one really along with me; but that's not the current issue. I know plenty of people that weren't spanked as a child and they also do not spank their own children. I have come to believe that parents whom are spanking their children do it because:

i) It's what they've come to know as a child
ii) It's probably the easiest method of disciplinary action
iii) It's impossible to see an immediate link between spanking and aggression.
iv) The parent isn't aware of any other means of pursuing disciplinary action



> If you choose, when you have children, not to spank...that is perfectly o.k. with me. I won't sit here and tell you that your manner/choice in discipline is negative...any more than you can say the same about mine.
> 
> In the end, both sides can find enought statistics to support thier style of discipline. This is kind of like nailing your foot to the floor and then trying to run in a straight line.


Well, I'm trying to affect SOMEONES mentality, however I doubt that will happen when everyone gets so defensive. If you have access to studies that show positive effects of spanking, I'd love to see them Jeff.

Thanks for your maturity and communication on a great topic!

Pac


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Hmm since this thread is still around, I will chime in. I think spanking is OK to an extent. My father took it so far I left my hosue at age 17. It also depends on the kid, certain kids only respond to a slap on the butt. On the other note: if you do it all the time, it has little effect anymore. Cus at first its like OMG daddy spanked me waaaa -------but if you do it too much, as I had its more like "ouch that sh*t hurts, walk away in pain, dont really care"...


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

Gordeez said:


> I didnt get spankings, I got beatings
> Im 21.80 Y/o right now I didnt stop getting hit till I was like 18
> 
> So no, 14 Is still a good age to beat the kids, IMO :nod:
> [snapback]850804[/snapback]​


lol..mexican/gautemalan..nasty temps huh..spanking turning a beat down..

there were no time-outs in my household....RUN FOREST RUN :laugh:


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

If my son/daughter (dont have a children, but will in the future) talked back to me Id give em the old back hand. After that, if they wont respect me, here comes ole mister belt.


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## Brendan (Oct 7, 2004)

stick there hand in a piranha tank if there bad , after that theyll be good


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## Brendan (Oct 7, 2004)

stick there hand in a piranha tank after that they wont be bad again


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## Brendan (Oct 7, 2004)

ops wrong section


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