# My ternetzi is no Red belly



## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

I laugh every time I hear you guys compare a ternetzi to a red belly. I have a 12 inch ternetzi who is over two inches thick, he owns the tank and constantly bullys a 10 inch caribe, and two nine inch piraya. These fish won't even come near him. His head is twice the size of the caribe, and he will charge the glass when I walk by. So much for the red belly comparison.


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## Young Gotti (Jan 29, 2003)

I agree w/ u I don't think Terns and reds are the same. why Do Terns get bigger than the reds if they're supposed to be the same.


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

Lucky Luciano said:


> I agree w/ u I don't think Terns and reds are the same. why Do Terns get bigger than the reds if they're supposed to be the same.










I agree.


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

They also get thicker and have differnet coloration.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

You have never seen a large aggressive red? And in you post, you didnt compair your "tern" to a red, you compaired him to your cariba and piraya. I have read posts from people saying they have massive 12" reds, what is different about your fish?
If you read the posts in piranha science, you will see that the debate has little to do with "size and activity".


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

*sight*
Starting all over again....








Thickness is no indicator when it comes to determining different species, nor is eye-coloration, over-all coloration etc. I suggest y'all take a look in Frank's forum....


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I think a better idea would be to post this exact comment in franks forum.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

ROFL


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> ROFL


 whats ROFL stand for?


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

Oh nevermind now i remember ROFL Rolling On Floor Laughing


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## marco (Jan 2, 2003)

arnt ternetzi one of the thinkest pygos?


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

On average I would say ternetzi is the thickest pygo. The caribe is obviously second. Piraya are more streamline in shape, and a red belly is just a red belly. Ternetzi can grow over 16 inches, while caribe usually max out around 13, of course there is variation depending on the individual fish. Knifeman from predatory fish has the largest ternetzi I've seen, I think it's around 16 inches, and shaped almost like a circle. Lets see some pictures of these monster red bellies everyone seems to have.


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

marco said:


> arnt ternetzi one of the thinkest pygos?


 I don't know about that one. I've heard people say that caribe are thicker than terns at the same length and vice versa. They are both massive. It depends if the fish was already large from the wild instead of growing from 3in to 10in in our tanks.


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

Some caribe may be as thick as ternetzi when at the equal size, but the ternetzi will most likely get longer and thicker as it matures. It always depends on the individual fish. I'm just saying on average the ternetzi is the thickest pygo.


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

i do know they both get massive when it comes to thickness


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

Take a look at knifeman's ternetzi in the photo section of predatoryfish.net.


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

sdk
To you have any pics of you tank?


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## piranha 13 (Feb 16, 2003)

sdk77 said:


> Take a look at knifeman's ternetzi in the photo section of predatoryfish.net.


 I know....its huge


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

MPOWER, I've never photographed my fish, any reccomendations? If your interested, I purchased my caribe, and ternetzi off of George from Shark Aquarium, and my piraya off of Ryan Lundy who used to have a lot of nice fish.


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## luva40 (Jan 5, 2003)

Qoute sdk77 "a red belly is just a red belly". Is there a problem with owning Reds? They are the same as Terns except for a couple of inches. Show a little respect for the Red owners. I am not trying to flame but some of us like our Red shoals that tear up food like there is no tommorrow.

-Kevin-


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

I'm interested. If you have digi cam. Or you can just scan the pics, but the scanning pics usually aren't that good quality.

What size is your tank?


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

My fish are in a 125 right now. I sold a nine inch caribe to Nate to make some room. The red belly piranha is the most successfull piranha in the world. They are widespread in nature, and breed in aquariums, which the other pygos will not. I'm not saying red bellies are not cool fish, I'm just saying the other pygos are bigger and meaner on average. Once again it depends on the individual fish.


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## luva40 (Jan 5, 2003)

Thats cool. I did not mean to come off as a dick, but I would rather add 2-3 Reds than 1 Cariba, Tern, or Piraya. Granted, the other three kick ass, but I would trade 3 for 1.

-Kevin-


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## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

... how about this guys...
Everyone has their own opinions and every fish will have its unique individual characteristics...


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

Yeah we all have our opinions, and all fish are not created equal. But we give our opinions, that's what this board is here for.


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## swagdogpsu69 (Jan 22, 2003)

You should put the tet and a rb of similar size together and see what happens then youll know who is tougher


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

sdk77 said:


> They are widespread in nature, and breed in aquariums, which the other pygos will not.


 Cariba, Natts (Red and Yellow) and Piraya have all been bred in aquariums.


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

The last two posts have been misleading, there is no red belly the size of a large ternetzi, and only red bellies are bred in aquariums. Use common sense, if the rare pygos were bred in aquariums, why would importers spend loads of cash to bring them back. Reports of breeding caribe, piraya, and ternetzi are unconfirmed, go check your sources again. You won't find any proof that it has been done. Lets see some pictures grosse gurke before you accuse me of giving misleading info.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

sdk77 said:


> The last two posts have been misleading, there is no red belly the size of a large ternetzi, and only red bellies are bred in aquariums. Use common sense, if the rare pygos were bred in aquariums, why would importers spend loads of cash to bring them back. Reports of breeding caribe, piraya, and ternetzi are unconfirmed, go check your sources again. You won't find any proof that it has been done. Lets see some pictures grosse gurke before you accuse me of giving misleading info.


Never accused you of anything, I was just providing the latest information. Why would importers bring in wild reds when they can be bred in captivity? Why would I spend the extra $, and shipping, to put 2 wild reds in my tank when I could go to my local lfs and get 2 tank raised ones for almost nothing?

I have it on pretty good athority they have been bred. You can look in the pirahna science section to find some posts on this subject.

And before you go accusing me of providing misleading information, you may want to check your facts. There is no species Ternetzi, that is a fact. Other pygos species including cariba,yellow and red natts and piraya have been bred in captivity that is a also a fact.


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

Once again Ternetzi "yellow nat", piraya, and caribe are not bred in captivity, ask any leading authority, and they will tell you the same thing. Lets see some proof.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

sdk77 said:


> Once again Ternetzi "yellow nat", piraya, and caribe are not bred in captivity, ask any leading authority, and they will tell you the same thing. Lets see some proof.


These are quoats from Frank Magallanes in the science section of this board, I dont know if you are aware of Frank Magallanes, but Many would consider him a "leading Authority".

"I personally know Jim and Jon Smith. They are honorable men and their claims about breeding caribas is accurate since I am the one who put them in touch with the *U.S. breeder of these fishes *and others."

This quote says to me that cariba are being bred in aquariums and by more than one source.

"P. piraya are indeed being produced in aquaculture in Rio SF."

I believe this clearly states that piraya are being bred in captivity. Maybe not in the US, but clearly in captivity.

"What I actually told you Nate was that the yellow form P. nattereri the fish you keep calling ternetzi was bred in captivity."

Hope this clears some of this up.


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

I don't have a 5000 gallon aquarium to breed the rare pygo's do you?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

sdk77 said:


> I don't have a 5000 gallon aquarium to breed the rare pygo's do you?


 Nope, only in my dreams.


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## Petzl88 (Feb 5, 2003)

Do you have a picture to share?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

For those of you arguing for the species S. ternetzi to be a valid species, I ask you these questions. Please provide the answers for all to read. If you cannot provide the answers for this, then you have YOUR answer whether or not your yellow form P. nattereri is a valid for Paraquay/Argentina.

Who described S. ternetzi and when?

What is the description of S. ternetzi?

Where is the holotype for this species that you are calling S. ternetzi?

What river system is this fish from?

And finally, what authority are you using to say this fish exists?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

hastatus said:


> For those of you arguing for the species S. ternetzi to be a valid species, I ask you these questions. Please provide the answers for all to read. If you cannot provide the answers for this, then you have YOUR answer whether or not your yellow form P. nattereri is a valid for Paraquay/Argentina.
> 
> Who described S. ternetzi and when?
> 
> ...


 In addition to answering Franks questions please read this forum:

http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/in...t=ST&f=15&t=408

I suggest you read the latest scientific information before making your amateur "comparisons".


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

> The last two posts have been misleading, there is no red belly the size of a large ternetzi, and only red bellies are bred in aquariums. Use common sense, if the rare pygos were bred in aquariums, why would importers spend loads of cash to bring them back. Reports of breeding caribe, piraya, and ternetzi are unconfirmed, go check your sources again. You won't find any proof that it has been done. Lets see some pictures grosse gurke before you accuse me of giving misleading info.


Um, sorry but you're quite wrong on this. Cariba are being bred in captivity. Yellow natts have also been bred, I'm trying to remember the location of that info and will post it if/when I find it. Not sure about piraya, but if they haven't then it's only a matter of time. Spilos have also been bred and I do believe medinai have also.

Why would importers spend money to import them? Because there will always be a market for wild-caught fish. Why do they spend money to import P. nattereri still if they are so prolific in the hobby? It seems like a waste of money, but if you stop and think about it for a minute it's not. Wild-caught and the mass-produced hobby natts are visually different, the same will be true of the other species after enough time.

There are no natts the size of your tern? Sorry but that also is not true, there is more than one equalling your fish and I have seen the proof of this. Check some of Frank's documentations on the fish, he has listed some ages and sizes somewhere on his site.



> I don't have a 5000 gallon aquarium to breed the rare pygo's do you?


You don't need an aquarium that large, most medium sized home tanks will do just fine. Unless of course you mean for mass-producing them, in which case you're talking about someone who's in that sort of business which is something altogether different.



> Ternetzi can grow over 16 inches


I'm curious on your sources for this information. The only figures I've seen put it at about the same length as the red nattereri, though I'm sure that figure is still in debate. Just the same I'd love to see where you get all your facts from as would the rest of us.



> The red belly piranha is the most successfull piranha in the world. They are widespread in nature, and breed in aquariums, which the other pygos will not.


Hmm, it is is it... I guess the other pygos are few and far between in nature? Ever been to South America to check this out? They aren't rare down there at all. Just because something's not common up here doesn't mean it's not common in nature. Perhaps the collection points are too remote to make frequent trips worthwhile, or any other number of reasons. And again your "fact" about them breeding is incorrect (see above).



> Yeah we all have our opinions, and all fish are not created equal. But we give our opinions, that's what this board is here for.


Exactly, and most of what you have said thusfar is just that, unsubstantiated opinion (anyone else having deva-vu?? ).

I'm not trying to flame or attack you, I'm just stating what's known right now for the most part. If you can prove us wrong then please do, we'd all love to see that, it's what keeps things interesting!

Btw, one thing you've said IS correct, your ternetzi is no red belly; it's a yellow bellied nattereri.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

actually cariba have been bred in captivity and that has pretty much been excepted within the community... secondly it would only take someone to make a 1500 gallon indoor pond and stock it with either of these fish and they would breed... Whats the problem? are you saying nobody has made this investment? To many people wasted their ponds on sissy fish when they could be breeding piraya. Yellow Natts get along just fine as a group, there just have not been that many large shoals of them to have a succesful breeding, or so we think. Hell even rohms have been bred in captivity, if they can... then all Piranhas can under the right conditions. You cannot even compare the fish to fish aggression in a tank Rohms to that of a Piraya shoal.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Neoplasia said:


> Exactly, and most of what you have said thusfar is just that, unsubstantiated opinion (anyone else having deva-vu?? ).


 You're evil


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

I only speak the truth. Too many people nowdays try to be authorities, but they don't feel the need to back things up. It does the hobby a great disservice and irks me to no end, must be from my days at p.org.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Its funny that sdk77 hasnt shown his face once people asked him some tough and intelligent questions. I guess he is cleaning his 5000 gallon tank..


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Well it has only been two days, maybe he's looking up some of his sources.







Too bad profiles don't show the last logged in time.


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

"Neoplasma", in response to your questions about ternetzi size as compared to red belly size, dude you need to check your references on that one. There are pictures of huge ternetzi all over the internet, reds top out four or five inches before ternetzi do. As far as the rarity of ternetzi, piraya, and caribe, Of course I was referring to the rarity within the U.S. You would have to be an idiot to think I was referring to the rarity within their natural habit. You shouldn't make stupid remarks until you check your sources, and fully understand what your talking about. I was referring to the common hobbyist being able to breed the rare pygos, not guys with 1500 gallon ponds. By the way you can drop your red belly in my tank anytime, and give me a call when you successfully breed ternetzi and piraya.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Of course I was referring to the rarity within the U.S.


And I am still waiting for my answers to the questions on what scientific journals you basing the scientific name Serrasalmus (Pygocentrus) ternetzi. I have reposted the questions here again. Please enlighten me. I have read all arguments about P. nattereri, both Amazonian and Paraguay size. They grow the same size 35 cm SL. (14 inches SL) or 16 inches TL. Take your pick. Its still the same fish. But in order for you to have a stated valid name, I must have the following answers to my questions:

Who described S. ternetzi and when?

What is the description of S. ternetzi?

Where is the holotype for this species that you are calling S. ternetzi?

What river system is this fish from?

And finally, what authority are you using to say this fish exists?

I ask the rest of the Pfury members to please allow sdk77 the opportunity to answer my questions.


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## sdk77 (Feb 17, 2003)

Do you question the fact that the fish from Argentina is less rare within the U.S. than the red belly piranha. Why would you highlight the fact that I made this statement? Our ternetzi's are imported from Argentina, their are countless adult red belly p's that were bred in the aquariums around the country. This is because the red belly from south america is easily bred in captivity, it is less aggressive, much smaller and not as thick. Look at the pictures man, it's not hard to figure out. If you believe this fish looks and behaves like a ternetzi, you probably have not done any research, and certainly have not owned one. If you own a ternetzi that behaves as a red belly, you should probably get your money back. Of course I can't "prove" that ternetzi is a seperate species, I'm just pointing out the facts. They look different, act different, like colder waters, and are overall a lot better quality a piranha. Of course this is my opinion, based on what I've seen. Why don't you start taking some DNA samples if your so worried about the fact that they are the same species. This thread was started to point out the fact that ternetzi does not look or act like a red belly, not to "prove" they are two seperate species. Obviously nobody has been able to do this. Do not ask me to prove something no one can, when I'm simply pointing out the differences. The board calls on you to use some common sense.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Sorry! The number of species loosely called piranhas is around 60 but Caribe (Notatus), Red Belly (Nattereri) and Piraya are the only true piranhas!

The others are mean, but is not the same!!!


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Anyway, Piraya is the bigger one. You can't denied it!

...and i think that Caribe is the most beautifull and aggresive when hunting in group, i live in Venezuela and i have seen what they can do any creature if they are TRUELY HUNGRY...they will strip ANY creature to bare bones in seconds!, THOUGH, it can be a dangerous pet or toy!!!.

And remember...Caribe (Notatus), Red Belly (Nattereri) and Piraya ARE THE ONLY TRUE PIRANHAS!

The others are mean, but is not the same!!!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Of course I can't "prove" that ternetzi is a seperate species, I'm just pointing out the facts. They look different, act different, like colder waters, and are overall a lot better quality a piranha.


Thank you for replying partially to my question. As for "facts" it is actually your opinion since you offer no scientific evidence to refute or contridict the historical placement of this fish. The rest of your remarks are bordering on nonsense as it could apply to any animal and their behavior including my pet dog.



> The board calls on you to use some common sense.


Common sense dictates that you are out completely out of water in this topic concerning piranas. You offer nothing but opinions and not substance, so it is a waste of my time and resources to discuss this further with you. Good luck in your studies of fishes.



> Sorry! The number of species loosely called piranhas is around 60 but Caribe (Notatus), Red Belly (Nattereri) and Piraya are the only true piranhas!


 The placement of S. notatus is a synonym of P. cariba. The rest of what you posted Mr. Hannibal is fairly correct in the number of fish loosely called piranas. They consist of: P. cariba, P. nattereri and P. piraya.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Anyway, Piraya is the bigger one. You can't denied it! 

...and i think that Caribe is the most beautifull and aggresive when hunting in group, i live in Venezuela and i have seen what they can do to any creature if they are TRUELY HUNGRY...they will strip ANY creature to bare bones in seconds!, THOUGH, it can be a dangerous pet or toy!!!.

My Caribe eat at least 2 fish daily and it takes less than 30 seconds to do that!

And remember...Caribe (Notatus), Red Belly (Nattereri) and Piraya ARE THE ONLY TRUE PIRANHAS!

The others are mean, but is not the same!!!


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

*_sigh_* This is all too familiar.

sdk77, why are you making personal attacks towards me? What's with calling me stupid? If you cannot debate a subject without stooping to immature insults then you'd be well advised to remove yourself from the conversation. And if you are going to address me by my name use it properly or don't use it at all, it is Neoplas*ia* not Neoplamsa. Your childish antics are making you seem even less credible.



> There are pictures of huge ternetzi all over the internet, reds top out four or five inches before ternetzi do.


Again I ask you for where you get this information. A picture of a fish means nothing without a reference. I could show you a dozen pictures of different fish and claim sizes and you would have no way to prove otherwise if I didn't give some form of reference. It's not that hard for you to do some research and show us this proof, or do you not want to? I've no doubt there are large ternetzi, but there are also large nattereri as well. So far the "monster" ternetzis I've seen and heard about have all since been downgraded to the size of a large nattereri as in the heat of the moment exagerations were made. It is a common occurence, people tend to estimate on the large side rather than the small side. Eyeballing a fish is useless, placed against a ruler is something entirely different.



> As far as the rarity of ternetzi, piraya, and caribe, Of course I was referring to the rarity within the U.S. You would have to be an idiot to think I was referring to the rarity within their natural habit.


I am quite well aware of how common they are in South America, I know a number of people who have been there in person and who also import. Please re-read my statements again as you are using my words in contradiction to what I actually said. Oh and by the way, there are people who are not aware of how common they are in South America, that is why they are here, to learn things such as this. Are they idiots because they do not know this yet? I don't think so, otherwise everyone including yourself would be idiots for not knowing the things they do not know yet. That's just ridiculous.



> You shouldn't make stupid remarks until you check your sources, and fully understand what your talking about.


Hmm, it seems I know more about this than you do as just about every "fact" you have said has thusfar been shown to be incorrect. I am not trying to argue or flame with you, but rather show you the error of your thinking so that you can learn from it. If you do not wish to learn anything then by all means drop out of this conversation, but people will not stop correcting you if you continue to post incorrect statements.



> I was referring to the common hobbyist being able to breed the rare pygos, not guys with 1500 gallon ponds.


They do not need ponds of that size, pygos have been bred in home tanks not even a third of that size. I do not understand the reluctance to believe this, whoever is telling you that people haven't done this is grossly mistaken. That's not to say they're a bad person, but just uninformed. Now you know different, that is all.

Do you even know who Hastatus is? Apparently not or else you would know you're arguing with the wrong person. He knows infinitely more about piranhas than most of us can ever hope to know. I am sorry to say but color and attitude are not sufficient to say they are different fish. Do they look different? Sure they do, yellow is a different color than red as is orange. Does that mean piranhas with orange are different too? I don't think you've taken into account factors like environment or diet, those can have drastic effects on coloring. Check out Frank's article on feeding nattereri seeds, I bet you'll be surprised. Here is the link, it is very interesting: Feeding Seeds to nattereri.



> The board calls on you to use some common sense.


Common sense demands the use of logic, little of that seems to have been called upon in much of your ramblings. It is pointless debating with you as you seem incapable of conceding to logic and fact. I know of at least one other person with whom you would probably get along splendedly with as long as you both agree on the issue of course.


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## Olson (Feb 15, 2003)

dont mean to inturupt the discussion but I though I would throw a few pics in
























Ternetzei at around 12-14 inch..that is a 34 inch wide tank
















9 inch Caribe they shoal with...these are some pics I took of a good friends of mine..its friends like this that make me want to sell my rays and try some of this sh*t out


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

Mr. Hannibal, that is awesome that you get to witness Ps in the wild... maybe you can tell us a little of you own experience through observations as most of us have never seen them in the wild.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > Sorry! The number of species loosely called piranhas is around 60 but Caribe (Notatus), Red Belly (Nattereri) and Piraya are the only true piranhas!
> 
> 
> The placement of S. notatus is a synonym of P. cariba. The rest of what you posted Mr. Hannibal is fairly correct in the number of fish loosely called piranas. They consist of: P. cariba, P. nattereri and P. piraya.


I hope it is correct Frank, it is almost word for word from your sight.









"The number of species loosely called piranhas is around 60 species or more. But only three (3) are true piranha." Copied from OPEFE.


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

Olson

Nice Terns!!! You should post more pics of your tanks.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> hastatus said:
> 
> 
> > > Sorry! The number of species loosely called piranhas is around 60 but Caribe (Notatus), Red Belly (Nattereri) and Piraya are the only true piranhas!
> ...


 Right! i cant denied thouse are Franks words, since there is no other way to say there are only 3 species of true piranhas!

I didn't meant to steal his thoughts...i just write about i've learned...and it's obvious he knows!...

or you think you get it and he doesn't!

Sorry!, next time i will use my imagination, not my memory, and then i'll win the Science Fiction Asimov Award!

Thank's Frank for spend your valuable time, but it seems people can't use what've learned from you and other Ps' experts!


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

Petzl88 said:


> Do you have a picture to share?


 pics are cool!


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

BDKing57 said:


> Mr. Hannibal, that is awesome that you get to witness Ps in the wild... maybe you can tell us a little of you own experience through observations as most of us have never seen them in the wild.


 Here in Venezuela, there is a place i've visit called "Los Llanos! where Caribes are very common. There are rivers and little lakes where you can find the specie of piranha we call "Capaburro" (dunky castrator...what we call p.cariba) due to the legend that they attack the noble part of the animal when crossing a river.

In that place, people use to swim in rivers and lakes and never worry, cause they never attack humans since they have plenty of natural preys in their habitat.

It's usual to see a fisherman with a container full of Caribes he just got while people swiming within its domain.

You can fish a Caribe in about 3 minutes since there are plenty (i mean plenty) of them and eat it (it's tasty, people says) or keep it stuff!. You can buy a living or dead specimen from the natives for about $1 (can you believe it?). They don't understand it's is valuable at the city or other distant lands.

In dry season the rivers get smaller and some little lakes start to disappear. Now is very dangerous to get close to them since they are isolate and starving and will try to eat anything inside the water. They even attack inanimated objects you throw them. You can see when fishermen throw beans into the water to attract them. It works.

Remenber, you can scape from one of them, but if you are talking about 20-40 it's gonna be difficult. Still, people keep entering these rivers since there are records of injured person but not dead.

During that time the natives show visitors what a Caribe can do when is really hungry. They throw dead fish into the water and then you can see the surface gettin disturbed. The fish will dissappear in a second into the deep. You won't see it anymore.

I've also seen the bite wounds in hands, arms and legs of natives but never amputated persons as i've heard!. Some people believes these injury will never totally heal due to the sharpness of the bite. Of course, that's not true!

Believe me, to meet this people and their stories is not as impressive as you can imagine but still is very exciting to go fishing and get your own trophy and be so close to the domains of such dangerous predator!

I was there when 11 years old and can't forget the time i spent dealing with P's and of course now i'm one of their greatest fan ever!

It will never change!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Thanks for sharing that information, Mr. H!
Feel free to share more of your experiences with us: I'm sure the members will appreciate it!


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

You'all still yammering about natt vs ternetzi? jezzzzz what will it take? LOL


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> grosse gurke said:
> 
> 
> > hastatus said:
> ...


 Not sure what you are trying to imply her Mr. H, but I was simply pointing out that I had read almost that exact same statement on Franks sight. I dont care where you get your information, however, if you are going to use someone's words verbatim, you may want to give them credit.


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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

oops


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Nice work on digging up a 4 year old thread.......


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