# nutrition of feeders



## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

ok everbody keeps telling me that feeders are not nutritous enough for my piranhas and it just doesnt make any sence whatsoever feeding them a fillet of fish is just the meat from fish feeders they eat the brain organs fins scales and meat i must be stupid or something cause if this is supposed to be a logical assumtion or something i must be retarted

if its just due to that thiamise crap ive grown many many like 300 piranha to 5 inchs with nothing but feeders and they grew just as fast if not faster than the cariba that i own now who eat every thing but feeders

somebody please give some scientific info backing this feeders are not healty for my piranhas because untill i see some proof every body that says this is nuts


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Thiaminase is well documented in feeder fish, look it up on google and you'll find countless scientific studies.

And yes thiaminase is "that bad" for your fish.


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## rhombeus enthusiast (Oct 26, 2007)

pirayaman said:


> ok everbody keeps telling me that feeders are not nutritous enough for my piranhas and it just doesnt make any sence whatsoever feeding them a fillet of fish is just the meat from fish feeders they eat the brain organs fins scales and meat i must be stupid or something cause if this is supposed to be a logical assumtion or something i must be retarted
> 
> if its just due to that thiamise crap ive grown many many like 300 piranha to 5 inchs with nothing but feeders and they grew just as fast if not faster than the cariba that i own now who eat every thing but feeders
> 
> somebody please give some scientific info backing this feeders are not healty for my piranhas because untill i see some proof every body that says this is nuts


Pirayaman,

Feeder fish are a highly nutritious diet, and if "clean", provide a perfect balance of vitamins and minerals. However, regularly adding live fish to your tank can obviously introduce disease; but piranhas are pretty tough (disease-resistant), so many thrive on a diet of feeder fish, as you have pointed out. The most touted concerns are that feeder fish can introduce diseases, and sometimes other unwanted things, like chemicals, or even heavy metals. Because piranhas are long-lived (25+ years), they could accumulate chemicals or heavy metals at ever higher, increasing levels. I have been told, that goldfish can be a problem because the ponds they are typically reared-in are regularly treated with copper sulfate. The copper sulfate theoretically ends-up in feeders, and the feeders (thousands over the life of the piranha) end-up in your piranha. However, it should be stressed that I am unaware of a definitive case where this has actually been demonstrated. You could, and people have, kept piranha alive for 20+ years feeding only feeder fish. If you choose to offer feeder-fish, try to pick healthy-looking feeders, and consider keeping your piranha at 78-85 Fahrenheit (26-30 Celsius). Warmer water temperature helps boost your piranha's immune system, and speeds up the life-cycle of most diseases too. Just remember that the warmer the water is, the more your fish will need to eat!

All the best,

rhombeus enthusiast


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

I Have yet met anyone who kept a piranha alive for 20 years on feeders. Actually I never met anyone keep a piranha healthy for 20 years without feeders.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

Dr. Giggles said:


> I Have yet met anyone who kept a piranha alive for 20 years on feeders. Actually I never met anyone keep a piranha healthy for 20 years without feeders.


ok so basicly your saying no one has ever kept a piranha alive in a tank for 20 years right hahahahahaahahhahaha

pretty funny cause its true ahhahahah

to the other guy i will look into this thiaimise thing and get back to you as if i belived every thing everyone said well my tank would be so jacked up thier are only a few people that i bother to listen too and they probley know who they are just by their experince

ill let you know but it deff doent have any effect on growth cause iv grown a lot of p and they may have actully grown faster due to goldies hum sound like a study wanting to be done


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

pirayaman said:


> I Have yet met anyone who kept a piranha alive for 20 years on feeders. Actually I never met anyone keep a piranha healthy for 20 years without feeders.


ok so basicly your saying no one has ever kept a piranha alive in a tank for 20 years right hahahahahaahahhahaha

pretty funny cause its true ahhahahah

to the other guy i will look into this thiaimise thing and get back to you as if i belived every thing everyone said well my tank would be so jacked up thier are only a few people that i bother to listen too and they probley know who they are just by their experince

ill let you know but it deff doent have any effect on growth cause iv grown a lot of p and they may have actully grown faster due to goldies hum sound like a study wanting to be done
[/quote]

You'd better do a study before you start making claims like that. Claims based on anecdotal evidence and/or unscientific evidence and then attached to words like "definitely" are sketchy at best.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

pirayaman said:


> I Have yet met anyone who kept a piranha alive for 20 years on feeders. Actually I never met anyone keep a piranha healthy for 20 years without feeders.


ok so basicly your saying no one has ever kept a piranha alive in a tank for 20 years right hahahahahaahahhahaha

pretty funny cause its true ahhahahah

to the other guy i will look into this thiaimise thing and get back to you as if i belived every thing everyone said well my tank would be so jacked up thier are only a few people that i bother to listen too and they probley know who they are just by their experince

ill let you know but it deff doent have any effect on growth cause iv grown a lot of p and they may have actully grown faster due to goldies hum sound like a study wanting to be done
[/quote]



> Utilizing raw fish as a main ingredient in fish feeds has long been recognized to be harmful to the health and growth of fish due primarily to the presence of the anti-nutrient, thiaminase. Thiaminase, an enzyme that destroys thiamine (vitamin B-1), one of the essential water-soluble vitamins, is mostly found in freshwater fish and is destroyed by heat (i.e., cooking)


Source http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA097



> Over all the data from the epizootic bacterial outbreak and immune function studies indicate that sub-optimal thiamine status adversely affects lake trout disease resistance and physiological response when challenged by disease.


http://www.glfc.org/research/reports/Honeyfield_immune.html

It's hard science and it's extremely well documented due to the amount of money involved in the fisheries industry


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

ok ok ok ill read it gee wiz hahahah gee wiz thats funny ill read it and if i cooked the goldfish it would make the biggest mess in my tank ever so ill read gimme a minute


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

ok as fas i can tell the first posted link sayes that thiamise is a anti nutreint and is bad

now as far as replete and deplete im thinking deplete meens with out thimine the fist got dieasees much more easily than the fish with thimine witch meens its good for my fish wtf tring to confuse the ever living hell out of me very apprecitated maybe im wrong about re and deplete maybe im not oh iguess im just a little slow hahahahah oh b vitiam thimine oh it all makes sence now i confused my self hahahaha thiamise thimne close right hahahahah ok i get it

also says to use marine fish im guess that the amount of thimise in saltwater fish is far less than freshwater so use salt water for fish food right did i get it ok thankls for the read intresting stuff deffinatly


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

pirayaman said:


> also says to use marine fish im guess that the amount of thimise in saltwater fish is far less than freshwater so use salt water for fish food right did i get it ok thankls for the read intresting stuff deffinatly


Well it says marine fish generally have less thiaminase, however there are freshwater fish that also do not contain very much thiaminase and are safe.

If you're looking for a good marine fish to use as feed I find sole is very cheap and my piranhas like it. Cod is good too. Octopus (not all fish like this), shrimp and squid are also very healthy.

Freshwater wise, catfish, tilapia, smelt (some types of smelt contain thiaminase but these aren't generally the type sold as food) are all good for your fish.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

truley tanks eltwitcho for the info sounds good to me i gues ill just forget about freezing feeders and 
add some cod and sole to the freezer to add to the already varied diet good stuff again thanks


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

No problem man. Good luck and I hope your fish grow huge for you


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## Bradabolics (Oct 27, 2007)

I too have had piranha's over the years, and fed them nothing but goldies and beefheart. I had one red belly that grew to 10-12" on this diet and was very colorful and more aggresive then mine r now. I had that fish for about 5-6 years before i had to give him up due to a move into an apartment that didn't allow aquariums...


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## dalyhawk (Apr 30, 2007)

pirayaman said:


> ok as fas i can tell the first posted link sayes that thiamise is a anti nutreint and is bad
> 
> now as far as replete and deplete im thinking deplete meens with out thimine the fist got dieasees much more easily than the fish with thimine witch meens its good for my fish wtf tring to confuse the ever living hell out of me very apprecitated maybe im wrong about re and deplete maybe im not oh iguess im just a little slow hahahahah oh b vitiam thimine oh it all makes sence now i confused my self hahahaha thiamise thimne close right hahahahah ok i get it


wow i feel like i'm listening to kendra off of girls next door from that post


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

ok mr 5 red bellys


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

Bradabolics said:


> I too have had piranha's over the years, and fed them nothing but goldies and beefheart. I had one red belly that grew to 10-12" on this diet and was very colorful and more aggresive then mine r now. I had that fish for about 5-6 years before i had to give him up due to a move into an apartment that didn't allow aquariums...


Well first off, I don't believe the fish was 12" unless I see pics with correct measurements. It's very hard to get a Red Belly to that size on just Feeders.

And if your fish was indeed 12", then imagine how much bigger it would have been if it was on a proper diet. Feeders will not stop your Piranhas from growing, what they will do is slow and continual feeding of feeders will reassure that the fish never feeds its full potential size.

Why is there a need for feeders? If you do the math, it's far more expensive to have Piranhas on a diet of feeders then it's to have them on a diet of fish sold on your local market.

I recommend you stay away from feeders.

Hater


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