# Question about TRIGGERS Lights...



## badforthesport

I bought a 30 gallon tank and set up a saltwater tank. It wasn't too hard and we liked it so I went out and bought a 120 Gallon and set it up as saltwater as well.

This is what I have in it...

Two Cascade 1000, for aquariums up to 100 gallons, 265 gph.
One Aquatic Gardens PowerHead 602 for aquariums up to 150 gallons.
One Rena SmartHeater - 300W.
80 lbs. of Black Lava Rock.
80 lbs. of sand. (looks like gravel to me but hey it was baged as sand)
Two 30" hoods and lights. With 18" Coral Sun, Actinic 420 bulbs, 15W
One 48" light with unknown bulb, watt.

Fish are in my Signature. 

*Question...*
I would like to put in some nice looking live Anemones, Giant Clams, Live Corals, etc. I know I read everywhere Triggers are not reef safe. Is there anythig I can put that looks nice?

*Question...*
Will my lights do or do I need these $ light set ups? I do have one Coralife Aqualight Single Linear Strip new in the box but its only 30". Can I use just that, return it and get a larger one?

Any Input I can use?

Thank you. 


Oh PS I have a Seaclone Protein Skimmer but havent asked what it is, what it does or if I need it so its just sitting in the box unopened. guess i need some info on that as well.


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## nismo driver

seaclones are crap defiantely not enough for a 120

you will need much better lighting if you want corals atleast high out put t5's or halides.

there are a few trigger that some people are able to keep with less aggresive reef fish but usally they should be added last, they are more aggresive once they form a territory whcih in a 120 would more then likely be the entire tank. i cant remember off hand whic but do alot or research,. triggers will almost always eat crab and shrimp which do provide a lot of bennifits in a reef tank so if you really and coral i would say stick with the less aggresive reef fish. you sill have tons of options though.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

You should ditch the lava and get some live rock.


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## rchan11

With Anemones and Clams, you're going to need MH lighting.


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## nataz

Just a heads up: Theres a very slim chance any of your fish will live with the Undulated Trigger for long. They are known to be very aggressive. More so when they mature, but you never know when for sure. Also the tank is to small for the triggers (if) they made it to adult size. The Niger Trigger is probably the (closest) to reef safe not it depends on the fish.

It might be in your best interest to grab a few books on saltwater tank also. http://www.amazon.com/New-Marine-Aquarium-...p/dp/1890087521 ------- > not a bad book to read/own

As for the 80 lbs of lava rock you can use it but you should use it as base rock and stack live rock on yop of it so it can seed it.

Seaclone Protein Skimmer -- not very good at all, but if its all you have for now or have money for than its better than nuthing. Coralife super skimmers are fairly cheap and can do the job. (Just my 2 cents thou)

1 powerhead for water movement isn't enouh it will cause you to have dead spots.

lights --- look at VHO's, T5's, and MH's. You can grow live Anemones, Giant Clams, Live Corals, ect. under all three just have to know where to place the coral in the tank.

Hope this help you, but its (ONLY) my opinion on the info you gave.


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## nismo driver

nataz said:


> Just a heads up: Theres a very slim chance any of your fish will live with the Undulated Trigger for long. They are known to be very aggressive. More so when they mature, but you never know when for sure. Also the tank is to small for the triggers (if) they made it to adult size. The Niger Trigger is probably the (closest) to reef safe not it depends on the fish.
> 
> It might be in your best interest to grab a few books on saltwater tank also. http://www.amazon.com/New-Marine-Aquarium-...p/dp/1890087521 ------- > not a bad book to read/own
> 
> As for the 80 lbs of lava rock you can use it but you should use it as base rock and stack live rock on yop of it so it can seed it.
> 
> Seaclone Protein Skimmer -- not very good at all, but if its all you have for now or have money for than its better than nuthing. Coralife super skimmers are fairly cheap and can do the job. (Just my 2 cents thou)
> 
> 1 powerhead for water movement isn't enouh it will cause you to have dead spots.
> 
> lights --- look at VHO's, T5's, and MH's. You can grow *live Anemones, Giant Clams,* Live Corals, ect. under all three just have to know where to place the coral in the tank.
> 
> Hope this help you, but its (ONLY) my opinion on the info you gave.


clams and anemones can and will relocate them self if they are not happy with where you put them.


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## badforthesport

Well since my first post about this I have cut my fish count down. I still have the Undulated Trigger. Hes really cool. I dont want to see him go.

I Added two more Filters (Fluv 305's). I would like to get a wet dry but cant spend that much right now.

I am gonna be buying live rock every week starting this week.

*New Questions. *

Are these FOUR damn filters enough for this 120 gallon or am I gonna have to go buy a real saltwater filter?

I bought a new bulb for my 48" light. its a 48" T8. 32 Watts, 6500 Color Temp. Light output 2700 lumens. 
Will This be ok for a fish only tank? To my understanding it is not enough for a reef tank. I just got it cause I thought it would look nice and bright. A blue shade. It didnt. It looks nice but is it helping or hurting me in any way?


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## nismo driver

badforthesport said:


> Well since my first post about this I have cut my fish count down. I still have the Undulated Trigger. Hes really cool. I dont want to see him go.
> 
> I Added two more Filters (Fluv 305's). I would like to get a wet dry but cant spend that much right now.
> 
> I am gonna be buying live rock every week starting this week.
> 
> *New Questions. *
> 
> Are these FOUR damn filters enough for this 120 gallon or am I gonna have to go buy a real saltwater filter?
> 
> I bought a new bulb for my 48" light. its a 48" T8. 32 Watts, 6500 Color Temp. Light output 2700 lumens.
> Will This be ok for a fish only tank? To my understanding it is not enough for a reef tank. I just got it cause I thought it would look nice and bright. A blue shade. It didnt. It looks nice but is it helping or hurting me in any way?


return the 6500 bulb and ask for a 10k or actinic or a 50/50

for the cost of those four filters you could have set up an overflow and a sump..

i personally do not reccomend cannisters or wet drys. cannisters trap all the waste and rely on chemical and mechanical filtration, they also very rarely have or are set up with surface skimmers so if this is your only filtration have little to no gas exchange going on and will have a nice film on the surface. cannicsters need to be cleaned very regularly. wet drys also trap waste, they do harbor plentiful amounts of areobic bacteria but that leads to excessive nitrates. but atleast it will keep the water well oxygenated and a wetdry will more then likely have a surface skimmer since they typically run as more of an "open loop" as opposed to a cannister which is more "closed loop"..


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## badforthesport

nismo driver said:


> Well since my first post about this I have cut my fish count down. I still have the Undulated Trigger. Hes really cool. I dont want to see him go.
> 
> I Added two more Filters (Fluv 305's). I would like to get a wet dry but cant spend that much right now.
> 
> I am gonna be buying live rock every week starting this week.
> 
> *New Questions. *
> 
> Are these FOUR damn filters enough for this 120 gallon or am I gonna have to go buy a real saltwater filter?
> 
> I bought a new bulb for my 48" light. its a 48" T8. 32 Watts, 6500 Color Temp. Light output 2700 lumens.
> Will This be ok for a fish only tank? To my understanding it is not enough for a reef tank. I just got it cause I thought it would look nice and bright. A blue shade. It didnt. It looks nice but is it helping or hurting me in any way?


return the 6500 bulb and ask for a 10k or actinic or a 50/50

for the cost of those four filters you could have set up an overflow and a sump..

i personally do not reccomend cannisters or wet drys. cannisters trap all the waste and rely on chemical and mechanical filtration, they also very rarely have or are set up with surface skimmers so if this is your only filtration have little to no gas exchange going on and will have a nice film on the surface. cannicsters need to be cleaned very regularly. wet drys also trap waste, they do harbor plentiful amounts of areobic bacteria but that leads to excessive nitrates. but atleast it will keep the water well oxygenated and a wetdry will more then likely have a surface skimmer since they typically run as more of an "open loop" as opposed to a cannister which is more "closed loop"..
[/quote]

The 6500 bulb was from Home Depot. $6 for two. No big deal. Is it a bad thing?

The four filters cost wasnt a big deal either. I got them new for next to nothing. Back door deal type thing.

for now the four are gonna have to work.


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## nismo driver

badforthesport said:


> Well since my first post about this I have cut my fish count down. I still have the Undulated Trigger. Hes really cool. I dont want to see him go.
> 
> I Added two more Filters (Fluv 305's). I would like to get a wet dry but cant spend that much right now.
> 
> I am gonna be buying live rock every week starting this week.
> 
> *New Questions. *
> 
> Are these FOUR damn filters enough for this 120 gallon or am I gonna have to go buy a real saltwater filter?
> 
> I bought a new bulb for my 48" light. its a 48" T8. 32 Watts, 6500 Color Temp. Light output 2700 lumens.
> Will This be ok for a fish only tank? To my understanding it is not enough for a reef tank. I just got it cause I thought it would look nice and bright. A blue shade. It didnt. It looks nice but is it helping or hurting me in any way?


return the 6500 bulb and ask for a 10k or actinic or a 50/50

for the cost of those four filters you could have set up an overflow and a sump..

i personally do not reccomend cannisters or wet drys. cannisters trap all the waste and rely on chemical and mechanical filtration, they also very rarely have or are set up with surface skimmers so if this is your only filtration have little to no gas exchange going on and will have a nice film on the surface. cannicsters need to be cleaned very regularly. wet drys also trap waste, they do harbor plentiful amounts of areobic bacteria but that leads to excessive nitrates. but atleast it will keep the water well oxygenated and a wetdry will more then likely have a surface skimmer since they typically run as more of an "open loop" as opposed to a cannister which is more "closed loop"..
[/quote]

The 6500 bulb was from Home Depot. $6 for two. No big deal. Is it a bad thing?

The four filters cost wasnt a big deal either. I got them new for next to nothing. Back door deal type thing.

for now the four are gonna have to work.
[/quote]

are you using tap water?

6500 bulb spectrum will contribute to algae growth.

i was just re reading your first post, how deep is the sand bed? you should ahve atleast another 40 lbs. basically if you have a shallow sand bed and nothing working it over you just end up trapping waste in the sand, you need atleast 4 inchs of depth to get the denitrification bennifits of the sand bed.

i would also suggest against adding rock weekly unless you know with out a question that its cured and clean. and filling a 120 with live rock is not the way to go, get about 20 lbs of live rock and 100 - 150lbs of dry base rock, throw the base rock in holding tank with a few power heads and do large weekly water changes on it for atleast a month until it doesnt smell and the water has not tint to it.


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## badforthesport

nismo driver said:


> Well since my first post about this I have cut my fish count down. I still have the Undulated Trigger. Hes really cool. I dont want to see him go.
> 
> I Added two more Filters (Fluv 305's). I would like to get a wet dry but cant spend that much right now.
> 
> I am gonna be buying live rock every week starting this week.
> 
> *New Questions. *
> 
> Are these FOUR damn filters enough for this 120 gallon or am I gonna have to go buy a real saltwater filter?
> 
> I bought a new bulb for my 48" light. its a 48" T8. 32 Watts, 6500 Color Temp. Light output 2700 lumens.
> Will This be ok for a fish only tank? To my understanding it is not enough for a reef tank. I just got it cause I thought it would look nice and bright. A blue shade. It didnt. It looks nice but is it helping or hurting me in any way?


return the 6500 bulb and ask for a 10k or actinic or a 50/50

for the cost of those four filters you could have set up an overflow and a sump..

i personally do not reccomend cannisters or wet drys. cannisters trap all the waste and rely on chemical and mechanical filtration, they also very rarely have or are set up with surface skimmers so if this is your only filtration have little to no gas exchange going on and will have a nice film on the surface. cannicsters need to be cleaned very regularly. wet drys also trap waste, they do harbor plentiful amounts of areobic bacteria but that leads to excessive nitrates. but atleast it will keep the water well oxygenated and a wetdry will more then likely have a surface skimmer since they typically run as more of an "open loop" as opposed to a cannister which is more "closed loop"..
[/quote]

The 6500 bulb was from Home Depot. $6 for two. No big deal. Is it a bad thing?

The four filters cost wasnt a big deal either. I got them new for next to nothing. Back door deal type thing.

for now the four are gonna have to work.
[/quote]

are you using tap water?

6500 bulb spectrum will contribute to algae growth.

i was just re reading your first post, how deep is the sand bed? you should ahve atleast another 40 lbs. basically if you have a shallow sand bed and nothing working it over you just end up trapping waste in the sand, you need atleast 4 inchs of depth to get the denitrification bennifits of the sand bed.

i would also suggest against adding rock weekly unless you know with out a question that its cured and clean. and filling a 120 with live rock is not the way to go, get about 20 lbs of live rock and 100 - 150lbs of dry base rock, throw the base rock in holding tank with a few power heads and do large weekly water changes on it for atleast a month until it doesnt smell and the water has not tint to it.
[/quote]

Yes I WAS using tap water but I am not going to anymore.

My sand bed i about an inch I would say. I really really want to change it out cause its like small gravel. it doesnt really look like sand at all. I do have a 100lbs bag of sand left over from some work from home depot as well. I would love to change it to that.

so buy 20lbs of live rock and add that with 150lbs of base rock and leave it in another tank and do water changes weekly? does this turn the base rock into live rock?

PS Thank you very much!


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## nismo driver

badforthesport said:


> Yes I WAS using tap water but I am not going to anymore.
> 
> My sand bed i about an inch I would say. I really really want to change it out cause its like small gravel. it doesnt really look like sand at all. I do have a 100lbs bag of sand left over from some work from home depot as well. I would love to change it to that.
> 
> so buy 20lbs of live rock and add that with 150lbs of base rock and leave it in another tank and do water changes weekly? does this turn the base rock into live rock?
> 
> PS Thank you very much!


yes the live rock will seed the base rock, it will take a few months for the base rock to really blend in with the live rock but eventually you won tknwo the difference. the seperate tank cycling is reallyjust to prep the base rock for going into the tank. even though it should be dry and the ouside look fairly cleen there is usually still a lot of stuff int eh rock that is decompsoing that needs to work its way out of the rock. in the vat it will cycle and bacteria will start to eat away at whatever is in that base rock..

what kind of sand is it? im not 100 percent sur but i think playsand is the only "industrial" sand that could be safely used. depending on what kind of sand you use it can affect the ph and the grain size makes a big difference, if its too fine it will pack down and clump and will also blow around too much if you have a lot of flow, you want semi corase but not crushed coral coarse


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## badforthesport

k thanks.. im gonna wait on the sand for a bit too.

i bought more triggers today....


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## Ægir

badforthesport said:


> k thanks.. im gonna wait on the sand for a bit too.
> 
> i bought more triggers today....


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## nismo driver

badforthesport said:


> k thanks.. im gonna wait on the sand for a bit too.
> 
> i bought more triggers today....


why?

what kind(s)?


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## nataz

A you may not want to hear it, (BUT) anyone and everyone that has done there homework and has saltwater knows the main rule to follow. Patience!!!!!! You have to give your system time to not only mature, but adj to anything new you add to the tank.

If your in a hurry saltwater isn't for you.
________________________________________________________________________________
___
(Nismo)
clams and anemones can and will relocate them self if they are not happy with where you put them. 
> This is very true, but has nuthing to do with the fact that you can grow both under VHO's, T5's, and MH's. As for moving they don't always move.


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## nismo driver

nataz said:


> A you may not want to hear it, (BUT) anyone and everyone that has done there homework and has saltwater knows the main rule to follow. Patience!!!!!! You have to give your system time to not only mature, but adj to anything new you add to the tank.
> 
> If your in a hurry saltwater isn't for you.
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ___
> (Nismo)
> clams and anemones can and will relocate them self if they are not happy with where you put them.
> > This is very true, but has nuthing to do with the fact that you can grow both under VHO's, T5's, and MH's. As for moving they don't always move.


good advice here about patients..

the movement does pertain directly to lighting.. really more to flow.. but lighting is also a factor. t-5/vho spread the light intensity across the tank better then halides but you still have to consider depth, if you place an anenome on the highest rock under a t5 it might want to move down lower on the rock to reduce the intensity. on the other hand if you have a halide and place the anenome on the fringe of the spread or too close to the center it may want to move. either way its also going to want a spot where it can establish a secure foot hold no matter what the lighting conditions are. a clam might move to position its self in the current better to trap food floating by.


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## nataz

nismo driver said:


> A you may not want to hear it, (BUT) anyone and everyone that has done there homework and has saltwater knows the main rule to follow. Patience!!!!!! You have to give your system time to not only mature, but adj to anything new you add to the tank.
> 
> If your in a hurry saltwater isn't for you.
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ___
> (Nismo)
> clams and anemones can and will relocate them self if they are not happy with where you put them.
> > This is very true, but has nuthing to do with the fact that you can grow both under VHO's, T5's, and MH's. As for moving they don't always move.


good advice here about patients.. <<<<Thanks !!!! Some times hard to do, but it part of S.W. and there really isn't anyway around it. For the average person atleast.

the movement does pertain directly to lighting.. really more to flow.. but lighting is also a factor. t-5/vho spread the light intensity across the tank better then halides but you still have to consider depth, if you place an anenome on the highest rock under a t5 it might want to move down lower on the rock to reduce the intensity. on the other hand if you have a halide and place the anenome on the fringe of the spread or too close to the center it may want to move. either way its also going to want a spot where it can establish a secure foot hold no matter what the lighting conditions are. a clam might move to position its self in the current better to trap food floating by.
[/quote]

Aww, I follow you now. Very well put.


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## badforthesport

Thank you guys for our input.

Yeah Well no matter who you ask NO MATTER WHAT im not gonna be keeping Coral/reef with Triggers. So lighting isn't that big of a deal. i took out the 48" 6500 K light since it looked like $h!t anyway. I just have the two 30". No Reef/Coral for now so no need for the T5's.

Triggers seem to be my fish of choice. I did buy three more so total I have a Niger, Pink Tail, Black Hawaiian, Undulated an a Humu humu. I do plan on buying more. 
Someone asked why I have more than one trigger fish... Cause I can. Everyone I have asked and everywhere I have read says its fine. Although Everyone says I will see the undulated turn into a devil sooner or later. As for now he is the smallest and doesn't bother anyone at all. He spends most of his time Hiding and eating behind rocks. He isn't out ever unlike the Humu Humu who is on the glass at all times trying to get my attention. Its ony been three days and the Pink Tail seems like he is taking after the Humu Humu. The niger and Black Hawaiian are out using the whole tank. They look good.

I did jump the gun on the tank cycling and when I was running the two filters that didn't help. Now that I know Saltwater needs more GPH than fresh I have the four running. I hear from my LFS's that that is fine as long as I am doing my water changes every three weeks. I also stoped using the tap water thanks to the info i got here.

I bought 30lbs of live rock today with 30lbs of base rock. I will get more of each as needed for hiding spots for the triggers. 
I also changed the large sand (gravel) with sand today. I did clean it out for a few hours. It looks alot better then the old stuff.

* Nismo Thanks again for your help. 
*


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Are you going to run a skimmer? If you do Deltec makes an awesome HOB style one, my friend got one and it pulls out some nasty stuff! Also you can go on aqua traders.com and get some good t5 or PC lights for dirt cheap. There a little crappy for a reef but would be perfect for a fish only setup like the one you plan on running.


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## badforthesport

I was just talking about a skimmer with my gf about a minute before i started to read this. I'm gonna go meet with my buddy tonight to see what I can get.

What exactly do they do?

I never been to aquatraders.com I'm gonna hit that up right now. thanks.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Skimmers remove organic compounds in the water before they begin to decompose, they are really really important to have for larger tanks with lots of fish like yours. Start talking to the saltwater guys in your area they'll walk you through everything. I would ditch the canisters and maybe go with a sump, get a beast of a skimmer (HOB style if you dont want to do a sump) , and some good power heads and your set.


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## badforthesport

Coo. ill ask them.

Hey I do have one powerhead. Do I NEED to run it with the air hose or can it be off? can they still breath if its off?


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

What kind of powerhead is it? You don't need to run it with air, just make sure there's a good amount of surface agitation.


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## badforthesport

No Skimmer tonight. My buddy didn't have it. Ill have to wait till Tuesday or I can buy one at a LPS. I'm sure ill wait.

I did get Two 24" Ocean Sun 10,000 K Bulbs. Still bothers me that I don't have a bright tank. I'm gonna buy a new light system soon but free is free ya know.

After turning the air off the powerhead it seems like a few fish are breathing a little heavy. might just be my imagination but it bothered me so I turned it back on.


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## nataz

Not sure if you know, but triggers will create alot of bio-load. With that said and since you have multi triggers you are going to need a bulky skimmer. A skimmer rated for a 120 isn't going to cut it plus skimmers are usually rated higher than they actually are. So bigger is better. Also read up on it when you find one. Some will say rated for x amount of gallons if used on a reef and only x amount of gallons if used on a fish only with heavy bio-load. I would look at something along this line if not bigger as an example, but you will need a sump. http://www.aquacave.com/asm-g-3-protein-skimmer-1301.html

Good luck..


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## nismo driver

bermuda aquatics makes a badass hob skimmer. i have there bps-3c and its a great piece of equiptment for the price.

good luck with all those triggers.. defiantely not a big enough tank for 5 or more triggers and not really a good idea, the undulata will ruin your day eventaully.. think about it like this, you have a tank full of piraya beautiful pygo's then you throw in a black rhom.. sure they might cohab for a while but at some point things will go bad.. but its your money.


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## badforthesport

My Bursa is making the grunting noise a lot. i hear it from others when they eat but he does it all the time through out the day. The Bursa and Humu Humu are very active.

undulated is still just in the background being good.


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## Ægir

I would like to see some pictures of your setup if you have time...


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## badforthesport




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## His Majesty

wooo rock on triggers. they are the tits.
so far all the triggers you got should be fine together
BUT that undulate will turn on everything in the tank as soon as it feels like it. 
just coz its small dosent mean he cant pack a punch. i suggest setting a seperate 55g tank for him.
the rest should all be fine


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## badforthesport

Wow. Tigger Lover huh? Cool name. haha.

Yeah everyone says the damn undulate will turn.

I still haven't found me a Clown.

soon...


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## His Majesty

your current tank is slightly too small for a clown. those thing will get to 15" when fully grown plus they will get more aggressive and terrotorial as they get older. he may start bullyin and killing the other triggers
if you want the more aggressive trigs such as clown, queen, undy and others you bettero ff investing in a 300g then adding some decent sized triggers then have a real nice tank. 
there are several examples of these out there which have worked. ill dig some pics up for you and post them.
the trigs you got now are the less aggressive triggers around and wont be able to stand up the undy let alone a clown.


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## badforthesport

Bought a Blue Jaw today


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## His Majesty

alright heres a link to RC. its full of pics of every trigger you could think of. ill try and di my pics up later.
enjoy
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...riggerfish+pics


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