# Sad Sad day yesterday, lost 1 of my 4 yr old Reds>



## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

earlier this week my 125 gallon (my piranha tank - has 7 piranha/4 different variety) had gotten a bit cloudy. I had slacked for the past few months & didnt do a water change. I normally know when its time for a water change when my feeders die quickly in a tank, but nothing like that was happening and water had been crystal clear. So then around thursday it got cloudy so i figured i'd do a water change this weekend. And by cloudy i mean it was just a bit murky.

So then yesterday i got back from working out and saw the P's were all at the top of the tank (not a good sign) and new i had to get to a water change right then. So i grabbed my equipment & chemicals & did a 50% change. Evertyhing went fine & things seemed good. Water was less merky & fish looked happier. Went back down like 4-5 hours later and all P's were showing good coloration & normal activity.

Then i woke up today & checked on them around 3pm - water was basically cloudy yellow & the p's were all at the top of the tank again but this time looking very pale & whitish. I was pissed & worried. So i again did an immediate water change....while doing this 1 of my P's starting getting a bit skechy on me so i put him in a fresh bucket of water and he did fine after that. But then after that i was putting new water in and saw 1 of my Red Bellies float to the front of the tank basically completely white. He was dead, i tried to put him in fresh water and pump his gils, but no luck he was gone :wtc: :squint: :wtc: ...again did a 50% change and they seemed happier, this was from 4:15-5:15pm today. In the mean time i went to the pet store to get more chems and get more feeders. The red belly that died i had grown for nearly 4 years and he was purchased at the size of a nickle & was a good fish.

Here he is - he was 1 of the mid sized P's in my tank:
































































So then everything seemed ok and then around 10:00 2nite i went back and checked on the P's - well again they were at the top of the tank & not looking good. So i said sh*t - f*ck it - time for a full water change. So i actually didnt want to loose another P - so i took them each out and put them in their own buckets and proceeded to do roughly a 95% water change. Finished that up around 12am tonight - then let it run for about 2 hrs and then put the P's in about an hour ago & the tank is much cleaner & the P's seem to be doing better.

So at anyrate, thats 3 water changes in my 125g & 1 lost P in the past 28 hours

:wtc: :rant2: :squint:

i also have to upload a few pics i took of my biggest P ( 1of my caribe's) while in the bucket - he is nearly 11" long & is the tank alpha


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

here are pics after water change #3 tonight (p's have good color back & are acting healty again)


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

and this is my big alpha Caribe in a 5gal bucket:




























*notice the bucket is around 11" wide (from 3-14" mark) and the caribe is just about that long & very thick!



























*this is my hand literally touching his top, just to show size


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

Nice fish man...thankx for sharing the pix...sorry about your red


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

gotta keep up on those water changes man

i would also disavise feedinf feeder fish as they can harm you piranhas and also your bio-load was proboly to high and that is why your p died

sory man but it was your fault


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

sorry for your loss. keep up on the water changes and it'll be all good. that caribe reminds me of mine before i sold it.

Joe


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> gotta keep up on those water changes man
> 
> i would also disavise feedinf feeder fish as they can harm you piranhas and also your bio-load was proboly to high and that is why your p died
> 
> sory man but it was your fault


 ya unfortunetly i slacked on it for longer than normal, but whats odd is how they did worse after the 1st 50% change. Luckily i only lost one, but sucks i lost him. I have an email in to Ron for a big piraya though


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## luva40 (Jan 5, 2003)

Dude that sucks. I also have 1 Red that I have had since nickel size and would feel as bad as you do. He is now the same size yours was. I feel for ya man.

Kevin.

BTW. that Cariba is bad ass.


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

Genin said:


> sorry for your loss. keep up on the water changes and it'll be all good. that caribe reminds me of mine before i sold it.
> 
> Joe


 ya, admitedly i let it go longer than i should have on the change, but ever since moving into this new town water changes have been "odd".

here is a good pic of my alpha caribe about 3 months ago


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## phil (Feb 15, 2003)

you have somevery nice p's. your red looked awesome to, to bad he past on


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

Sorry for your loss man...









But i think that you must treat your P's with much more respect and responsibility in the future!
What is this????? _"I normally know when its time for a water change when my feeders die quickly in a tank"_

Jim


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

Nice shoal but keep up with those water changes man.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

sorry for the loss bro =(

Just a reminder though, when you put your fish in buckets, they arent getting proper heat for the time in solitary confinement, this should be taken seriously.

none the less, the reason for me posting is as follows:

*stating obvious for the newer generation keepers- Feeders are obviously dirty, the water you get them in is deadly and the idea of keeping alot of feeders in your tank is too dangerous to proceed with.

My advice- I keep all my feeders, usually 100 2-3'' goldfish a week in an 8 gallon glass, i add new water each week once i add feeders. on average i lose 1 feeder per 50 (which is a VERY good ratio imo). And if they die and nothing seems wrong with the goldfish, DONT FEEED IT TO YOUR FISH, you never know where the feeders came from or why they died... anyway, now im rambling. Gl and i hope to see pics of that Piraya Soon!!!!


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

husky_jim said:


> Sorry for your loss man...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 well meaning that its a qiuck easy way to tell the water is an issue. I normally change that tank every 2-3 months and i've not had a water issue in 3 years......but this last change i let go longer than i should have. Sorry my original post was to a non-fish forum (so most dont comprehend testing water and so on)


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

Wagz said:


> husky_jim said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for your loss man...
> ...


 thanks 4 the info!! 
I only had them in the buckets for about 1.5hrs or so & it definitely was beneficial considering how they were looking kinda bad. I had already treated taht water & had let it sit about an hour prior to putting them in it and it was nearly the same temp as the tank had been.

very good info on feeders too, i've bought from the same shop for the past 3 years & normally i get them the day after they are delivered to the store - i always check out their feeder tank (they let me have free roam of the store) and make sure they are looking good & not many deads in the tank. I used to keep feeder tanks, but damn they are a hassle. I like the idea you have though.


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

sorry to hear about your fish.









by the way, how long was it between water changes? Im kind of courious.

hopefully next time you get a test kit, guessing is not a good thing


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2004)

oooohhhhhh! i dont think ive ever had a post make me this mad! first off...there are many good points made about feeders being dirty so ill leave that alone. 
second.....your fish are beautiful....

you killed that fish by lack of care. Period. you cant let your water get to lethal levels like that....especially with the over crowding you have in your tank(im not against over crowding with pygos by the way) and also have that many feeders in there. and then think that you can change basically 150% of your water and expect them to be okay. thats a total shock to the fish and youre also skewing your biological filtration. yeah the bio-filtration will recover quickly because of the decor and pumps already have the helpful bacteria on it.....but the 48hrs after a huge water change are gonna be hell in there....why do you think your water got cloudy a few hours after you did a 50% water change. 
i hate to sound like a dick....but take care of your fish.

PS wipe the water spots off your tank....it looks like poo.


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## DiXoN (Jan 31, 2003)

piranhadaddy said:


> oooohhhhhh! i dont think ive ever had a post make me this mad! first off...there are many good points made about feeders being dirty so ill leave that alone.
> second.....your fish are beautiful....
> 
> you killed that fish by lack of care. Period. you cant let your water get to lethal levels like that....especially with the over crowding you have in your tank(im not against over crowding with pygos by the way) and also have that many feeders in there. and then think that you can change basically 150% of your water and expect them to be okay. thats a total shock to the fish and youre also skewing your biological filtration. yeah the bio-filtration will recover quickly because of the decor and pumps already have the helpful bacteria on it.....but the 48hrs after a huge water change are gonna be hell in there....why do you think your water got cloudy a few hours after you did a 50% water change.
> ...


 i think the water spots were the least of his worries.
i do think you need to do more water changes probably at least every 1-2 weeks and you will only need to do 20-30% so it should not take long i used to do mine every week 20-30%
this sounds exactly like my friends tank he does water changes very infrequently and does have loses he usually blames the lfs's he buys the fish from and theres no telling him hopefully its will not be the same with you.
good look you have some very nice pygos
dixon


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

nitrofish said:


> sorry to hear about your fish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 was roughly 4 months which i normally go for 2-3 months & this hasnt proven to be an issue in the 2 years i've had this set up, but this time i was at the 4 month or so mark simply cuz of so much hecticness around the holidays & so on.


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

piranhadaddy said:


> oooohhhhhh! i dont think ive ever had a post make me this mad! first off...there are many good points made about feeders being dirty so ill leave that alone.
> second.....your fish are beautiful....
> 
> you killed that fish by lack of care. Period. you cant let your water get to lethal levels like that....especially with the over crowding you have in your tank(im not against over crowding with pygos by the way) and also have that many feeders in there. and then think that you can change basically 150% of your water and expect them to be okay. thats a total shock to the fish and youre also skewing your biological filtration. yeah the bio-filtration will recover quickly because of the decor and pumps already have the helpful bacteria on it.....but the 48hrs after a huge water change are gonna be hell in there....why do you think your water got cloudy a few hours after you did a 50% water change.
> ...


i appreciate your info & insight, but i've owned P's for the past 13 years & have only ever lost 2 due to water issues (out of roughly 30 owned). I later found a strong reason for the cloudiness, which was some beef hearts that were stuck at the back of the tank & had been sitting back there over a week (didnt notice them at all) uneaten. All my levels were not "off the scale" either, they were of course higher than ideal, but not "off the scales". As for the fish/tank now, they are all acting perfectly normal & look normal. I've had this 125g set up for about 2.5 years now & it has plenty of material in it to help keep the system normal when doing water changes. I also treat the water w/ stress zyme, stress coat, aquasafe,& cycle prior to putting it in the tank. As i've mentioned, since moving to this town a year ago i've had quite a few water issues in both my 125g & 75g tanks w/ water changes - i get a very strong metalic smell coming from the water when doing changes. I never had this issue at my previous location.

I've admitted that i lost the red belly due to my negligence on letting the tank go longer than it should have. But there is certainly something odd w/ the water here as well considering he died after the 1st water change.

tank shots were taken within 15 minutes of adding the P's back to the tank, 3 water changes in 28hrs create a bit of a mess. tank has since been cleaned on the outside. Least of my worries was the attractiveness of the outside of the thank when trying to save my P's


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Sorry to hear that man but you have to be more careful in the future :nod: ...!


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## Wagz (Apr 15, 2003)

here is the tank today just moments ago, very clear & all p's very active & looking good! (sorry the pics arent the best)























































and a quick vid of them 
http://www.leadleader.com/wagz/fish/125g_2-1.MOV


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't want to lecture you, but I feel its nessary to explain that once signs of poor water quality are present its too late. you could have prevented this by testing your water. your nitrate levels where most likely too high. 4 months is just too long to let any aquarium go without water changes, the waste has to go somewhere.

please buy a nitrate test kit, and do a water change before it reaches 40 ppm.(I do a 50% water change x2 a week to make sure my water is safe)

your fish where very nice, don't let anymore die needlessly.

and I hope no one makes this a bash wagz thread. live and learn.


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

OK Let's give Wagz a break! We have all screwed up and I think he knows what he needs to do to prevent this from happening again. I can definately understand that the rat race of life can sometimes prevent us from doing some of the things we need to do. Good luck with the shoal bro.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

andymel said:


> OK Let's give Wagz a break! We have all screwed up and I think he knows what he needs to do to prevent this from happening again.


 Well, most people that have responded (not all!) didn't give Wagz crap: they just offered words of advice. Which is a good thing, because it shows most people here are dedicated fish keepers (not saying Wagz is not - his piranha record says enough, and we all do slack at times).

And even when you know you make a mistake and realise its your own fault you lost a fish, it's good to hear insights from others, get advice and find out about things you might have overlooked.

Wagz: I'm sorry about your loss - take the advice given here to heart!
Good luck with your awesome shoal


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## 360 (Dec 3, 2003)

sorry bro...

do what everybody else seems to be doin...PRESERVE EM :laugh:


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