# updates: (9) 5-6" gold spilos in a 75g



## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

I think this is the most appropriate forum for me to post about my gold spilo schoal.

Its day 12, and they are doing quite well...actually, even better than expected. I took out all the decor on saturday, thus leaving the tank bare, except for gravel, hob filters, airpump, etc.. This is quite a departure from the setup that I used for over a week...which was VERY heavily planted.

here is what it looked like:

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=169933

The reason for it was mostly due to the fact it was near impossible to get all of the uneaten food out...though it did make me kind of discover that the bare tank seems to work better w/ no real territories to defend.

Since I made that original post, i've gotten a range of responses, from encouraging to..."Are you crazy???", which is totally fine. As I mentioned in that linked topic, I was, and still am, to a degree, skeptical about this setup. I will keep saying that I decided to try this as George at SA told me that from his observations, these gold spilos, that are from northeast Brazil, seem to schoal much better than ones from other localities...other parts of brazil and argentina.

So, now, as I said, the tank is bare and from my observations, they are actually getting along better than when i had all that decor in there. The fact there are 9 of them in a med sized tank, makes me think that the overstocked nature of the tank is really helping them cut down on aggression and territorial disputes. There is very little fighting going on, and if it does it only lasts a second or two. They are also very active, moving most of the time, and love the powerhead I tossed in there. The fin nips have, from my observations, pretty much stopped, some of there dorsal fins are beat up still, but the tail fins are already starting to look better than when i received them.

There is no real dominant fish, or couple of fish, which I am as well sure is due to the overstocked tank. A lot of people I have talked to on this board mentioned how they had fighting all the time and bad fin nips with gold schoals, often having to set up a hospital tank. Mine are nothing like that so far. hopefully it will continue that way. they are less aggressive with each other than pygo schoals I have had in the past.

All in all, this is going better than expected. I will continually update on this project, especially since I don't believe anyone here has tried a setup like this in a med sized tank, and because the common knowledge around here seems to be that this would have never worked well in the first place. We'll see, I do plan to upgrade to a 125g or so, in the future, but for now things are going real well.


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## Eric99 (Nov 29, 2006)

What a cool, unique shoal. I hope this works out for you. If it does I might give it a try too. Do they feed like Pygos? By that I mean grouping together and eating.


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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

good luck man!! but 12 days aint nothing like i said b4 mine were together for years before things went south


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

jmax611 said:


> good luck man!! but 12 days aint nothing like i said b4 mine were together for years before things went south


you are correct, as i noted, time will tell much more accurately. the thing that gives me some optimism, is that several other members i have talked with about gold spilo schoals that they had, pretty much had early warning signs, like a lot of fighting and nipping. mine don't fight much, unless it is feeding time, or after i move away from being near the tank, some sort of reorganizing they do.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

They look nice-
I'm looking forward to seeing your progress with this...


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

keep it up. id love to see it some time.


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## kfreeman (Feb 14, 2008)

I love the gamble!!!!!!


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Are you crazy? jk

Tell me if you ever want to get rid of any


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Nice shoal you've got there prime. Good luck to you friend.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

StryfeMP said:


> Nice shoal you've got there prime. Good luck to you friend.


thx guys...havn't been in the breeding forums in quite a while now :/

hope it's going well with that, for you stryfe, and maybe i'll make a come back with my golds :/

it's interesting that i really get the range of comments, witnessed by this and my other thread.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

I can't believe how well these guys are getting along. there are brief fights lasting a second or two, but for the most part they are shoaling fine.

Already, their tail fins are almost completely back to normal on all of them. The dorsal fins are still a little beat up on a few, but at the same time i didn't expect fins, in general would improve much, and from what i am hearing from a lot of people who have tried gold spilo shoals, i should probably expected constant fin nips that required constant hospitalization.

now, i know some others, like jmax have said they had some together for years before major problems occured, but what i have been hearing from most people is how much their gold spilos would fight, chase, and fin nip constantly. all i can say so far, these guys are really exceeding my expectations. they don't fight any more than pygo shoals i have had, they are constantly swimming and being active, and like i hinted at, aggression is minimal. They are still a little skittish when i approach the tank, they huddle together. another observation i've made though, is they don't "freak out", like pygos in similiar sized tanks (75g). what i mean is they don't start darting around looking to get away and bumping/crashing into the tank sides. none have chimples.

more posts to come with time. i know a bunch of people here are excited by, and looking for more information on my shoal. I've gotten a lot of pm's from members who are surprised by how well my shoal is doing. I would definately recommend others trying this if they can find golds from NE Brazil. George/SA informed me about the differences in behavior with locality, and I am really starting to buy into his observations. he's been in this game much longer than most of us!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

a little cause for concern. their fin nipping has increased some. not so much the tail fins, but the dorsal fins. none really bad, but it is noticeable. up close too, a little small nips on the tail fins.

we'll see what happens. they are getting a little more nasty with one another. if this trend continues and gets worse, i may have to go back to the VERY heavily planted tank idea, so they aren't looking at each other all day. the get the most aggressive after they are disturbed by a room light or me...they huddle together, then after the disturbance passes they kinda seem like they are organizing a hierarchy or order, and get nasty for 15 mins or so then calm down considerably after finding their own space/territory. may also turn the temp down a little, though that isn't gonna work too well with summer coming.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

also: the top gold in the pecking order seems to be the smallest one...he's the only one with no fin nips, perfect fins. i'll play fish psychologist, here, and say he is "overcompensating".









i took out the powerhead and they are actually more active, i guess they didn't like it much. and a little less territorial (for now).


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## rickstsi (Apr 6, 2007)

Those golds look great! I agree with lowering the temp and puting some deco back in. Thanks again for today.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

rickstsi said:


> Those golds look great! I agree with lowering the temp and puting some deco back in. Thanks again for today.


no problem, and thanks for the kind words







i'm glad your caribe got back alright.

kinda a strange development, since i removed powerhead and added a background, they aree much more active and less territorial/aggressive towards one another. good sign


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

wow, quite a drastic change since i removed the powerhead. not much aggression, no more than my caribe shoal. they are getting along very well and its amazing how quickly their tail fins and dorsal fins regenerate/grow back. the tails are quite good on most of them and the dorsal fins are starting to look better as well.

my only explanation is that they disliked the powerhead, which was quite strong, thereby it was acting as a boundary and the more aggressive ones got the better spots outside of the ph's flow/range.

these guys are a joy to watch, pretty much active swimming most of the day, and i also believe the fact the tank is well overstocked, is helping to weed out aggression and territoriality.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

tank since i added a dark blue background and light, in the evening.


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## shoal king (Oct 27, 2006)

great looking tank man.








whats the plan for the future? an upgrade?


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## tison 30 (Feb 29, 2008)

Very cool...Happy to see that there all getting along now


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

shoal king said:


> great looking tank man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks. i will eventually probably go up to a 180g for both of my shoals, golds and caribe. def. for the caribe taking into consideration the size they get. they will get an upgrade first, considering how much $$$ that entails. i might then seperate the golds into my two 75g's, 4 and 5 in each tank and maybe, just maybe try and breed them, we'll see. if not i may even pick up a few more and slightly overstock a 180g for them. they are without question the best shoal i have had of p's. eat in front of me, so do the caribe, which makes feeding time fun and interesting. i was feeding every day but am now cutting back to every other day, then 2-3's/week. i have a little ammonia in the tank, which is the primary motivation for that, and well, they are nice and thick now so every day would be too much as, is. one of em who is a complete hog is even slightly fat compared to all the others. not surprisingly, he is one of the 2-3 with perfect fins.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

another


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

i decided to seperate them into my two 75g tanks. the largest 5 in my top tank and moved the smaller 4 to my bottom 75g tank. i did it mostly because it was becoming a pain to keep the tank clean and without any ammonia/nitrite/nitrates. also now they have more room. i also started feeding them every other day for the same reason, plus i don't think they need to feed every day at this size.

fin nips are about the same as they have been since the beginning. fair amount of aggression towards one another, but not too bad. it should be interesting to see how this new setup works out. i may try decor in the two tanks and see how that compares to there being none.


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## rickstsi (Apr 6, 2007)

primetime3wise said:


> i decided to seperate them into my two 75g tanks. the largest 5 in my top tank and moved the smaller 4 to my bottom 75g tank. i did it mostly because it was becoming a pain to keep the tank clean and without any ammonia/nitrite/nitrates. also now they have more room. i also started feeding them every other day for the same reason, plus i don't think they need to feed every day at this size.
> 
> fin nips are about the same as they have been since the beginning. fair amount of aggression towards one another, but not too bad. it should be interesting to see how this new setup works out. i may try decor in the two tanks and see how that compares to there being none.


Very nice, they must love the extra space.







What happened to the caribe? Did you get a new tank for them?


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

rickstsi said:


> i decided to seperate them into my two 75g tanks. the largest 5 in my top tank and moved the smaller 4 to my bottom 75g tank. i did it mostly because it was becoming a pain to keep the tank clean and without any ammonia/nitrite/nitrates. also now they have more room. i also started feeding them every other day for the same reason, plus i don't think they need to feed every day at this size.
> 
> fin nips are about the same as they have been since the beginning. fair amount of aggression towards one another, but not too bad. it should be interesting to see how this new setup works out. i may try decor in the two tanks and see how that compares to there being none.


Very nice, they must love the extra space.







What happened to the caribe? Did you get a new tank for them?
[/quote]

right here just wanted to say thanks again!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

lookin good, let me know how the red is doing around them, hope he does better than that one i had for like a week, before they gobbled him









nah ricksti, i didn't want any more tanks until i move in the near future, so i let them go. again, a large reason that keeping my tank parameters in check was getting annoying with 9 gold spilos in a 75g, so i seperated them, 4 in one, 5 other. they are a little less territorial with more room to roam, SO FAR. kinda worried about the temp going up in the summer time, cuz of aggression. also if they get nasty i may go back to feeding them every day, in smaller portions, and add a more decor, if needed.

well, no more tanks unless someone wants to give me a 14-15" rhom for $100, lol. (any takers?)









oh, and phil...get your own damn thread! (j/k)


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

wow, quite a drastic change in the amount of aggression since i seperated them. all their tail fins are nearly perfect, if the trend continues i would expect them to all be fully healed w/in 4 or 5 days. the dorsal fins are looking better already too. not nearly as much fighting.

somewhat different behavior between the two shoals as well. the 4 larger on the top 75g are a little more territorial than the bottom. the bottom there is almost no aggression and territoriality, whatsoever. possibly because the bottom ones have only been there 4 or 5 days. could also be the extra room, and/or the fact i put the 5 smaller ones in the bottom, so they may have been the ones on the bottom of the food chain when all 9 were together, less aggressive.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

primetime3wise said:


> wow, quite a drastic change in the amount of aggression since i seperated them. all their tail fins are nearly perfect, if the trend continues i would expect them to all be fully healed w/in 4 or 5 days. the dorsal fins are looking better already too. not nearly as much fighting.
> 
> somewhat different behavior between the two shoals as well. the 4 larger on the top 75g are a little more territorial than the bottom. the bottom there is almost no aggression and territoriality, whatsoever. possibly because the bottom ones have only been there 4 or 5 days. could also be the extra room, and/or the fact i put the 5 smaller ones in the bottom, so they may have been the ones on the bottom of the food chain when all 9 were together, less aggressive.


Nice observations man---Although I dont post in this thread---I read it and follow it all the time------


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

i am glad to hear that the aggression has dropped. i love the setup. its pretty cool to see all those serras swimming around. they were real active when i saw them. keep it up. i cant wait to see them when they are bigger.

also what are your plans with them as they grow? do you anticipate a reunion in a larger tank eventually?


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

philbert said:


> i am glad to hear that the aggression has dropped. i love the setup. its pretty cool to see all those serras swimming around. they were real active when i saw them. keep it up. i cant wait to see them when they are bigger.
> 
> also what are your plans with them as they grow? do you anticipate a reunion in a larger tank eventually?


yea, after i move w/in the next 4-6 months i will upgrade to a 180g, should be a site to see esp. as they get larger


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

...that, and, assuming they don't start killing each other off :/


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

quick update. they are doing quite well. there seems to be, still, more aggression in the top tank than the bottom. possibly because, the 4 larger ones in the top were seperated from the 5 smaller in the bottom, and since they were larger, i assume they were getting more food because of the fact they are more aggressive.

also, 5 seems like a good number for a 75g. its also kinda weird that the ones on the bottom are more active, swimming together, whereas the 4 on the top are less active, but more territorial.

*ALL* of their fins are nearly perfect now, just a few small nips on some of the dorsal fins and anal fins. the tail fins are all nearly perfect, which is better than i ever expected it could be.

one of the five, on the bottom 75g tank, has an injury. i dunno how he got it, must have been from one of the other spilos, but the skin around his lower jaw is ripped off, exposing his lower teeth. i may get a pic of it, and it looks kinda cool seeing his lower teeth. again, i assume one of the other golds did it, the only other possibility, i guess, would be scraping it hard off the gravel. it doesn't appear to be serious and affect him negatively. with how fast these guys regenerate tissue, i would expect it to be healed w/ in a week.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

on a side note, i plan to email george/SA, every so often to compare notes. he says he has a shoal of the ones from argentina, together in a 125g. how many i am not sure, but i just wanna keep in touch, as long as he has them, to compare notes.

one difference, observed, so far, is that there seems to be more aggression with his, if they are not fed every day. with mine, it doesn;t make a difference, i feed mine 3-4x's/week. this does, however, keep in line with our observations that the ones i have, NE Brazil, are less aggressive and territorial, hence, easier to shoal.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

linking this up with pics in picture forum...

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=172132


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

It's been about 3 weeks since my last update, and the group has been together, with no losses, for about 2 1/2 months.







Tell me, how many of you would have thought that?

I recently put them back together, all back into one 75g to make way for my rhom. Plus, they are more entertaining that way. I was getting a little concerned about fin nips, esp. on the anal fins, so instead of keeping the tank bare, I added decor like in the pic below. It's only been about a week like that, so results are not really out, for sure, about the change. So far, though, the anal fins have been looking better. Also, the aggression has been cut down. One thing I did not expect, was for them to not be very territorial with the new setup. I thought each one would settle into an area in the tank, its territory, and guard it, like my experiences with pygo shoals. Happily for me, they havn't become too territorial and are still active all over the tank.

So things are still going quite well. One injury I have noticed on two of them, is that the lower lips have been almost completely removed or bitten off. I can only assume from a fight with another one, as if it was a scrape, I would expect a chimple. One has the lower lip almost completely gone, which is kinda cool because I can see all of his lower teeth, while another is only partially gone. I have never encountered an injury like that with any fish, other piranhas or other aggressive fish. They seem to be doing fine though, overall, the two. If someone else has encountered this, please let me know. It's amazing how fast the fins can regenerate. In only a few days I can see noticeable differences.

A nice thing is how slowly they are growing. about half have put on about and inch or so, while they other half almost nothing. It's nice that way becasue if they were pygos, i would need a huge tank ASAP.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

freakin' awesome!!!! i've been following your progress with this 'shoal' and you have had some great and slightly unexpected success. gratz!!!

keep the updates and pics coming


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## waldron (Jan 15, 2007)

man your lucky, no deaths.. nice


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

here's the one i was talking about with the missing lower lip...kind of a cool injury, if there is such thing.

i've owned dozens of piranhas and have never seen this except with my golds. another one of them has the same injury, but only 1/2 of the lower lip missing. must be the result of something unique to the species, when they fight. i assume if it was a scrape it would mostly be a chimple.

thanks for the kind replies everyone. and here is a pic of them hanging out, err 2nd pic


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

My red had a similar lip injury that was caused in a feeding frenzy. It has since healed though and you cant even tell it happened.

Good luck with the shoal.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

ah, that's very possible he got wounded that way as several often fight over a chunk of food.

i have a new problem now...since adding decor, now one of the smaller ones wants 3/4 of the tank to himself







gonna have to move decor around...again


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

quick update...they are all doing fine. i have tried a few different tank configurations, moving decor around, adding more decor etc...

the fins nipping has gotten better since i added a lot of decor to the tank, and they are more territorial, staying in their territory for the most part....so they fight less.

however, a major concern is that uneaten food may go undetected by me, and, consequently, pollute the tank, because of all the decor. so i am probably gonna move things around a little, again, and take some of it out.

other than that, everyone is healthy and tolerating each other quite well with this cohab. one or two of the smaller ones has become the dominant fish in the tank, overtaking the larger ones. could be a male, as with reds, the males are usually a little smaller...though that is speculation. he really doesn't like anyone coming into his territory and is constantly encircling the little territory i marked off for him.

it's been about 3 months now with no losses


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

its been 3 1/2 months now with no losses.









i split the 9 of them up to see if they might possibly breed. i now have 5 in my 75g, which is what is in the picture, along with the other 4 now in a 40g breeder tank. i split them up so as to have the top and most aggressive/territorial in the 75g.

i'm hopeful they might breed soon, though at their sizes, 5-6", i dunno if they are even capable as they might be too young. most, and especially one of the smaller ones, have darkened quite a bit, and the one mentioned is the darkest with a good amount of dark purple on his body. also, he/she seems to be the dominant one in the tank, even though he is one of the smaller ones.

i'm not trying too hard, though, to breed them as i prefer to wait till i move to give it a real good try...but what they hell, why not, as it would be very exciting, even now. what i have done to stimulate them is large, COLD, water changes and then letting the temp in the tanks get to be in the 83-84 degree range. also, like in the picture, i have setup two seperate breeding areas in the 75g, on both ends. these areas are marked off with decor and fake plants, from the rest of the tank which is open. also i laid down some coconut fiber in the areas, as well. like in the pic, again there are two areas in the 75g like that, and in the 40g breeder, just one area marked off because of the smaller size of the tank.

down the road, when i move all of them to a much larger tank, together, i may try some of the more advanced methods...in particular simulating the wet and dry seasons.

i will say this...all of them are much more active with a lot of decor in the tank. that goes for both the 75g and 40g. another thing i've noticed is the overall activity level increases in the evening and continues until all lights are off.

aggression and fin nips aren't too bad at all and def. get less and less, over time.

the largest are a little over 6" now, like 6.25", while the smallest, which seem to be a little more aggressive, are about 5". some of the smaller ones i don't think have even grown at all in the 3 1/2 months i've had them.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

here are a few. over time their color has def. darkened a little and they seem to have more olive coloring and a little less gold. having the tank lights always off has probably also contributed to that. the ones in the 40g are noticeably lighter...have been in there only 2 weeks or so.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Hell Yeah









I'm glad to hear that things are still going well for ya. thanks for the update!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

thanks. over the last few days their coloring has changed and become a darker yellow and gold, along with a few of them having deep, dark purple around their bellies. seems to be that for the top 2 in the ranking order of the tank...the most territorial ones.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

^^^ pics of the new, darker colors??? purple and gold?!!?!!!?! It sounds like they are looking really gorgeous!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

here is something else, possibly, very exciting and interesting. two of them might be close to breeding. for the last few days, one of the smaller ones whom i believe to be a male, has been taking over the right side of the tank, that i made into a nest for (hopefully) breeding. he is one of the smaller ones, about 5", and i think mentioned before the top fish/alpha in the tank. he usually only lets one of the larger ones into the area and everyone else he chases out. he is the one with some dark purple coloring.

well today i looked at the tank mid afternoon and the larger one that he permits in the area was extremely dark, darkest i have seen yet, and was/is in very bad shape...the worst condition i have seen yet. this one, whom i think would be the female, has all of her fins almost completely chewed off, except for the tail fin, which is still in pretty bad shape.

i probably should have just let them alone, but i got excited and did a large cool water change to knock the temp down to the mid 70's, from the 82-84 i have been keeping it at, to hopefully excite them to breed. the weather where i am has been hot, anyway, the past two days so that may have contributed. from disturbing them though, they have lightened in color, between that and my lowering the temp.

here are two pics of the possible female...notice how badly the fins are chewed off. also, the mouth of this fish is in pretty bad shape as you can see from the 2nd picture. she is not nearly as dark in the pic as she was mid afternoon...stupid me probably should have left the tank alone.

so, it's possibly exciting. the reason i think it might be breeding behavior is after reading about spilos/macs spawning at opefe and another piranha site, it seemed to match what the two fish were doing...especially as it relates to the female taking alot of damage during the breeding process...that and how dark the two fish were/are. again, that fish was both the most messed up any of them have become, since i've had them, and also, the darkest i have seen any of them. for those unaware, from what i have read, the female does indeed take a lot of damage when the species breeds, and in some cases, dies from the injuries if they go deep enough into the body.

maybe something will happen w/in the next few days, if it does, you guys will be first to know







i'm gonna try and disturb the tank as little as i can over the next few days.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

4 1/2 months now with no losses. they are all back in the 75g together, now, except one that is being treated for a fungus on his eye and some pretty bad fin nips. he's alone in the 40g breeder. he was looking pretty roughed up, but i think its from being sick. i posted about it in the disease forum. he wasn't standing up for himself in fights, backing down and staying near the top of the tank. should be back to himself in a week +/-, fighting with the others for territory







i foolishly thought it might be pre-breeding behavior as he darkened so much, and, from what i read, they get real beat up, the species, when they do breed. i'm glad i caught it, because i didn't see the fish very much the past few days, while at work, and i think since he is sick, they might have picked him off fairly soon.

the others all have pretty good fins. they do have a good amount of little fights that end real quickly, much more than pygos. none of the fights though escalate much. as i keep saying, the fin nipping seems to lessen over time, as they adjust to each other and tolerate each other more.

the shoal, if you can call it that, get much more active in the evening, for a few hours. i think its the time when they really start to forage and look for food in the wild. they also fight much less during this time and all roam about the tank.

it was confusing whether they were looking to breed. i thought a few of them might be up to it, darkening in color, but also, i don't think there is any chance of it happening with such an overstocked tank...9 in a 75g.

they've all probably put on at least 1/2", with the smaller ones 1/2" and the larger ones like 1".

other than that, i am looking to upgrade to a 125g, very soon. giving them all much more room to roam. i'm gonna do it right and look into properly setting up decor and the look of the tank. not sure if i want all black gravel or all white. i'm gonna look around and see what setups i like, that others have.

also, i'm gonna try and get a feeding video up, real soon, so look for that.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

it's been a month since my last post. coming up to almost 1/2 a year w/ no losses.

i split them up again (lol), 4 in one 75g, 5 in the other 75g, about 3 weeks ago because of the bioload and keeping the tank clean with that many fish in it. also, i am starting to think i may make a real serious attempt at breeding them and it seems more probable if the tank isn't overflowing with other fish.

i already, earlier today, tried simulating the wet/dry seasons a little. for about 2 1/2 weeks i raised the temp to 82-83 or so. i left the tanks alone for that time period and fed them less frequently. then, earlier today i did a large water change, about 25% or so, on both tanks, with cold water and dropping the temp down to around 78. immediately the golds in the top tank all became darker. one of them was as dark as reds get when they breed and he was totally freakin' out!!! he became super aggressive and belligerent to all the other macs/spilos in the tank. the other ones were more aggressive as well, but i swear, the one is the most aggressive i have seen a piranha to other piranhas. he didn't do any damage to the others, but he was going nuts, doing the "wiggling" dance for territory and chasing the others around.

too bad it was in the evening i did all this, maybe tommorow i will have a better idea if it worked at all. i still think its a long shot and i will have to be more precise and change more variables if i want them to breed. i've been holding off on a huge tank because i may be moving w/in a few months and don't wanna put up, then tear down a huge tank.

other than that, i aquascaped each 75g tank for breeding conditions. i setup a breeding area of about 18"x18" area in both tanks. its basically an area sectioned off from the rest of the tank by rocks, decor, and plants. its VERY heavily planted around the areas. i also added some coconut fiber mixed into the gravel.

so, we'll see. down the road i may try some of the more advanced methods i have read about, but for now i just need some luck. i also need the "other" piranha website back up, lol, because there was a ton of info there about breeding golds.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

almost 7 months now i have had this cohab going.

i am upgrading to a 125g, for this cohab, and i will start a new thread once i have it up and running. it might in some ways just be the perfect time. i now have 2 of the golds that have bites to their bodies, that is, not the fins but the top portion of the main body. here is the first one: http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...p;#entry2254517

that mac is in a 40g hospital tank right now. that happened about 3 weeks ago, i would say. now today i noticed a mac with a similiar bite, but not as deep as that one. not surprisingly, they seem to be the two fish on the bottom of the pecking order.

i hope this isn't going to be a trend now that they are getting larger. i've read of people saying their mac cohabs failed once the fish got to be 6-7"+. again, i turned the temp up on the 75g they are in now, to like 83 degrees to try and get them to breed. i'm def. gonna be more careful and keep the 125g temp down to like 76 to see if they calm down a little and fight over territory less. i'm also not sure how i am gonna aquascape the 125g yet, either very little decor at all so they don't establish territories, or a fair amount but with more hiding spots.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

anyone have suggestions on the 125g? i am either gonna have a good amount of decor, or very little. i am leaning towards little so they can't establish territories as easily, plus i have 9 of them. i think i am gonna have a spawning area on one of the ends, an area of like 12"x18" that will be heavily covered in case they want to spawn. the other 80%+ of the tank have pretty wide open. thoughts?


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

go planted







then it will be more natural might induce breeding and it will help keep your nitrites and nitrates in check as plants feed off the nitrates







and it would look awsome


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

I just want to say congrats on this cohab & thanks for the running updates! I am very interested in what you're doing, good work!


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

thanks. as soon as i decide between building my own stand for the 125g, or purchasing one, it will be up and running by end of next weekend. its gonna look sweet!

as far as the fin and body bites. i know a mistake i have made is moving the decor and plants around too much. they then fight alot more over new territories, and thus more nipping. even the last day they are not as aggressive w/ one another. i think turning the temp down helps as well.


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

i like the less is more idea. personally i like the idea of a small covered section like you described incase they want to breed. which i think should be you ultimate goal. since it is lofty it would be a great accomplishment. where are you going to put it? where your other tanks are/were? did you already get the tank? if so idk how you could have the patience to wait till next week to set it up. i couldn't lol. my last two tanks i got and set up in a day. i cant wait to see pics.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

philbert said:


> i like the less is more idea. personally i like the idea of a small covered section like you described incase they want to breed. which i think should be you ultimate goal. since it is lofty it would be a great accomplishment. where are you going to put it? where your other tanks are/were? did you already get the tank? if so idk how you could have the patience to wait till next week to set it up. i couldn't lol. my last two tanks i got and set up in a day. i cant wait to see pics.


its going where my other 3 tanks are, but i am probably gonna take down one of the 75g and the 40g. as far as setting it up, i don't have a stand for it yet, so i am deciding between buying one or making my own. i may even see if i can find a nice piece of old furniture at a good will or other thrift shop. if i buy a lfs real close to me can order one, but again, making one is much cheaper, though won't look as good probably.

thanks for the input guys. i am gonna have little decor, i decided, just a few plants, live possibly, and some driftwood to mark off a foot width of the tank as a breeding area.


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