# Well, if no one posts it...



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/16/...robe/index.html

Since everyone's always ready to strongly condemn atrocities commited by terrorists (and with good reason), what are your thoughts on human rights violations commited by your own troops?

Just a reminder:
*Keep it civil, please*


----------



## ReDraGon-> (May 24, 2004)

im gonna keep my mouth shut on this 1


----------



## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

Doesnt bother me.....maybe if i were a scumball insurgent id be upset. I say that the geneva convention goes out the window when the enemy chooses to violate it first. There is no question of the horrible atrocities commited by these insurgents. Eye for an eye in my opinion. We could have spent time and money giving this guy medical care and guess what......he would be shooting at us a few days later.


----------



## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

I dont see a link to the tape, so what do you want me to say? It's cnn. I dont believe it unless i see the tape. sorry.


----------



## Sunman222 (Apr 19, 2003)

so if i am an iraqi insurgent and i shoot myself in the foot, i can't be killed? good deal!

there are always different circumstances that justifies certain actions. obviously in this case, it was not right for the marine to kill these unarmed insurgents because they posed no threat. however, it said that in the past an insurgent that faked being wounded or dead, led to the injury and death of marines.

in this case, the marines should have assessed the situation and determine whether it was safe or not.


----------



## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

he did nothing wrong, actually he should have been a little quicker on the trigger, they just got done takeing that mosq and thier were no civilians in there, only the enemy, and that guy could have had explosives attached to him or else where in the mosq and had the detonater on him, thiers no room for politics in war..if thier were any civilians left in that mosq then f*ck them for thier stupidity, hesitation will get you and others killed. i say well done







... i can almost gaurantee you that man was unloading rounds at our soldiers the day before..


----------



## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Liquid said:


> thiers no room for politics in war...


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

probably shouldnt have been done... but understandable given the circumstances and situation.


----------



## Mr_redbelly (Mar 22, 2004)

> Liquid Posted on Nov 17 2004, 10:00 AM
> thiers no room for politics in war


Actually

"War is nothing more than the continuation of politics by other means."

Karl Von Clausewitz

"War is not merely a political act but a real political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse, a carrying out of the same by other means."

Karl Von Clausewitz

funny tat even tho this guy was writin this centuries ago it is still relevant.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Mmm... this is what I expected: justifying the point-blank execution of an injured man, foe or not







(and there's no denying that's exactly what it was).

If this happened in the US society, you'd all be screaming bloody hell and murder, the guy that pulled the trigger would be sentenced to death or live-long imprisonment, and no one would disagree.
Even worse: if it was the other way around, an Iraqi executing an American GI, you'd all have your judgement ready, wheter you saw the whole deal or not: but because this is 'sensitive' material, now you don't?









Oh well....

btw: doing away with the Geneva Convention???








I bet you'd love that, so you can continue atrocities without guilt or fear of being called to justice. The only ones that would see it go rather than stay are those that have things to hide...
But thank god there are still sensible people on this planet.


----------



## Mr_redbelly (Mar 22, 2004)

If I sawan American GI executed ina war zone I'd think fair enuff, it was war.
But did we see the Marines then take the body of the dead insurgent, mutilate it and then hang the remains from a brdge?
I think not.


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Judazzz said:


> Even worse: if it was the other way around, an Iraqi executing an American GI, you'd all have your judgement ready, wheter you saw the whole deal or not: but because this is 'sensitive' material, now you don't?


Havnt like a bunch of foreign nationals been beheaded on live TV lately?









This was ONE soldier, in a wartime situation....


----------



## Mr_redbelly (Mar 22, 2004)

Ye alot have, I've seen many of the exections.
So far there has been...

Ken Bigley.

Shosei Koda

Iraqi constructor Barea Nafea Dawoud Ibrahim Beheaded By Ansar al-Sunna.

Iraqi Kurdish Translator (Luqman Hussein) And Turkish Contractor Beheaded By the Ansar al-Sunnah Army.

Shiite Iraqi Ala al-Maliki Beheaded By Ansar al-Sunnah Army.

2 Iraqi Intelligence Agents (Fadhel Ibrahim and Firas Imeil) beheaded.

Turkish Truck Driver Beheaded By Qaqa Brigade (Tawhid and Jihad group) .


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah see Judazz, it's only bad when the bad guys do it, when the good guys do that sh*t, well obviously there must be a reason it's ok, they're the GOOD GUYS after all









When Saddam tortures the hell out of his own people, he's an evil man that needs to be overthrown. When the US comes and does the same thing in the same f*cking prison, hey guy we're the good guys, it's alright. When they lock people up in shipping crates under the sweltering sun at guantanamo bay it's all good because we're the good guys man, it's only bad when someone else does that sh*t. It's horrible and cowardly when Iraqis kill prisoners but f*ck man, when the good guys shoot up wounded prisoners, it's held to a different standard because we're the good guys...

I hope you guys understand, that you're no better than the Islamic f*cking crazies who think being a westerner cancels out a persons Human Rights and makes it ok to cut people's heads off after you kidnap them. It's funny you guys hate each other so much, you're so strikingly alike when it comes to how you think war should be waged.


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> If this happened in the US society, you'd all be screaming bloody hell and murder, the guy that pulled the trigger would be sentenced to death or live-long imprisonment, and no one would disagree.
> Even worse: if it was the other way around, an Iraqi executing an American GI, you'd all have your judgement ready, wheter you saw the whole deal or not: but because this is 'sensitive' material, now you don't?
> 
> 
> ...


 Your damn right I WOULD scream. 
WE WOULD be mad. 
But WE DON'T strap bombs on civilians and kids. 
WE DON'T put roadside bombs in piles of trash. 
WE DON'T put bombs in family cars, pack the whole family in and tell them to start driving. 
WE DON'T put bombs under dead bodies to explode when the enemy drags them off, largely in part because we leave no man behind to put a bomb under.

WE also don't run and hide. Want to kill a US soldier, you can find him in the battlefield. Trying to find an Iraqi soldier is like playing "Where is Waldo?". Only difference is, every Waldo has a full automatic. Stop, don't shoot 'em all. Which one is Waldo. I'd kill every LAST damn one that I knew was the enemy.

DO YOU get my picture FUCKSTICK!


----------



## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Yeah see Judazz, it's only bad when the bad guys do it, when the good guys do that sh*t, well obviously there must be a reason it's ok, they're the GOOD GUYS after all
> 
> 
> 
> ...












(please keep in mind that not all americans are bad and some of us see this turning into another vietnam)


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

I would never imply that all americans are bad, or even that those americans I disagree with are necessarily bad people. I may not think some people's views are very well thought out, or are even remotely sensible but most americans just want to live their lives in peace which is the best ideal to aspire to. It's just that alot of americans IMO go about it the entirely wrong way.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PiranhasaurusRex said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > If this happened in the US society, you'd all be screaming bloody hell and murder, the guy that pulled the trigger would be sentenced to death or live-long imprisonment, and no one would disagree.
> ...


No, you don't do that indeed.

Instead, you do:
- illegally invade countries;
- cause more civilian casualties than Al Qaeda will ever do;
- justify your acts by buttraping concepts such as democracy, freedom etc.;
- act like the f*cking worst ******* state on this whole goddamn planet, dragging the rest of the world with you in your downward spiral;
- act like you can get away with anything, punishing others for the exact same acts you commit yourself, abusing terms like democracy and freedom for your own good;
- are probably humankind's biggest liability at the moment.

And why??? Because you loose 2500 people at one incident and have not even the faintest clue of why it could ever get that far???
Dude, wake the f*ck up and stop boring others with your mindblowingly dull and republican propaganda! No matter how terrible 9/11 was, it's peanuts compared to all the sh*t your nation has caused in the past, and most defintely not a justification for all the trouble you cause in the world. And why do innocent people, or in fact the whole world, have the suffer the consequences of your corrupt leaders decisions.
If you want war and shoot each other up, fine, go and play war, but do it on your own f*cking soil, killing your own people and destroying your own cities instead of terrorizing the rest of the world - you are not a shred better than Al Qaeda, but at least Al Qaeda doesn't lie about its real motives: you redefine hypocrisy and abuse of power, Al Qaeda redefines evil.

So go f*ck yourself, and take that shithole place you call home with you









btw: I know not all Americans are evil or bad, Democrats as well as Republicans. But it's people like this PiranhasaurusRex schmuck that makes the US look bad, and make me think you don't deserve any better than the route it's currently taking.

And just for the record: this is my personal opinion, to which I am entitled: you can disagree, you can get pissed off, or you can reply, but that's all you can do about it....


----------



## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2004)

Just a reminder:
*Keep it civil, please*

your my hero


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> PiranhasaurusRex said:
> 
> 
> > Judazzz said:
> ...












I am glad one of our moderators is finally willing to take actions by suspending those who blatantly disrespect others by calling them "terrorists or wanna-be's"; because it's so important that we treat each other with respect and never resort to name-calling


----------



## adultswim (Oct 21, 2004)

Judazzz have you ever been in a situation where you could be killed? Have you ever been to war? Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever seen friends die next to you? Have you ever had to deal with Terrorists and their tactics in war? If you have then I am sorry. If you havent then you have no right judgeing someone for shooting a enemy that could have possibly killed you or people around you. In war it's kill or be killed I for one would rather kill than be killed. How about you?


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> PiranhasaurusRex said:
> 
> 
> > Judazzz said:
> ...


 "Republican Propaganda..."

Maybe we should have done what the democrats wanted.....NOTHING! I'm sure they would have stopped if we did NOTHING.

And what exactly did my nation do that was "peanuts" compared to 911??


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> I am glad one of our moderators is finally willing to take actions by suspending those who blatantly disrespect others by calling them "terrorists or wanna-be's"; because it's so important that we treat each other with respect and never resort to name-calling


 Oh well, I guess I messed up then...















I knew I shouldn't have started this topic, but I know now what I wanted to see confirmed.

adultswim: no, I haven't. But I have seen and heard the footage: when you shoot someone in the head with an M16 at pointblank range, a wounded person that has being lieing bleeding in a mosque for more than a day, then it's murder in the first degree.
Yes, it is war, and yes, terrible things happen, but when you do the exact same things as those people you try to eliminate (intentionally killing people in front of a camera), what do you try to gain from it? It makes your own country look bad, as well as it shocks millions of people all over the world, muslims and non-muslims.

Mike: _ONE_ soldier? And out of all platoons operating in Iraq, the news crew happened to coincidentally accompany the only platoon that has committed war crimes?








I honestly hope to god you don't believe that yourself....


----------



## wpsanders (Jul 13, 2004)

Seems to me just a few weeks ago we had alot of people supporting a person who admitted to doing the same type of thing in Vietnam, does Kerry ring a bell. Now you want to crucify this guy who in the realms of war did the same exact thing that Kerry did, Kerry was called a hero for his actions. Get it straight this is a war and some seriously jacked up sh*t happens during war.

I understand that everybody has their own opinion, but some opinions stink to high heaven, especially when the person has no idea of what war really means, easy to pass judgment sitting in the saftey of your home.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PiranhasaurusRex said:


> And what exactly did my nation do that was "peanuts" compared to 911??


 Well, I guess they didn't teach your own nation's history at school, or at best a 'modified' version to avoid critical scrutiny....


----------



## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

We are at war, no?

There are no rules to war. The guy he shot was an insurgent, in otherwords an enemy. So what if he didnt have a weapon on him, whats to stop him a week from now after healing from his injury (whatever it is) from going back out and killing more of our troops? Its just one less guy we have to worry about it. In war, you have to have that mentality.

You think if one of their men came acrossed an injured unarmed American soldier that they would just walk on by and not do anything?! Hell no, theyd kill him too if not torture him to death first.

I have no sympathy for it. Sorry.


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Jewelz said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad one of our moderators is finally willing to take actions by suspending those who blatantly disrespect others by calling them "terrorists or wanna-be's"; because it's so important that we treat each other with respect and never resort to name-calling
> ...


 When you shoot someone in the head with an M16 at pointblank range, a wounded person that has being lieing bleeding in a mosque for more than a day, then it's murder in the first degree.

But when you do it the day after this, which I quote from the link:

"A buddy the day before had been killed in a very similar incident where an insurgent who was playing dead had in fact been booby trapped, and a number of Marines had been injured and wounded and one Marine was killed," Marks said.

Then I call it, "Using appropriate force to handle guerilla warfare."


----------



## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

If they don`t shoot the wounded terrorist-soldiers they themselves are gonna be the one who will be shot(by the wounded soldiers)!!!








It`s a mather of survival when you`re out there!


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> We are at war, no?
> 
> There are no rules to war. The guy he shot was an insurgent, in otherwords an enemy. So what if he didnt have a weapon on him, whats to stop him a week from now after healing from his injury (whatever it is) from going back out and killing more of our troops? Its just one less guy we have to worry about it. In war, you have to have that mentality.


 What's to stop him from healing up and shooting an american a week later??? How about the fact that he would be a prisoner for one... What do you think happens in a war when somebody surrenders, that the other side confiscates their weapon and says "now don't you let me catch you shooting any of us again young man"? If you need the mentality of killing anyone who might be a threat later down the line, why stop there? Why not shoot all the civillians you come across before they have a chance to take up arms against their occupiers?



> You think if one of their men came acrossed an injured unarmed American soldier that they would just walk on by and not do anything?! Hell no, theyd kill him too if not torture him to death first.
> 
> I have no sympathy for it. Sorry.


So like I said, that about puts you on the same level as the terrorists if you're saying "they'd do it, so we should do what they would do" does it not?


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

janus said:


> If they don`t shoot the wounded Iraq-soldiers they themselves are gonna be the one who will be shot(by the wounded soldiers)!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty much what it boils down too









You don't win wars by being sensitive, no matter what heart-bleeding liberals would like for you to believe


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> PiranhasaurusRex said:
> 
> 
> > And what exactly did my nation do that was "peanuts" compared to 911??
> ...


 Actually, High School students, at least the ones in my state take a year of U.S. History. We also take a full year of civics, which is the study of american government.

But I'm sure it is pointless and actually harmful because it the the "republican propaganda" type, right???

Get a clue, and educate yourself before you make stupid statements like the one I quoted.

And my original question was worded wrong. What I wanted to know was what my country did that made 911 look like peanuts.


----------



## seharebo (Jul 19, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> We are at war, no?
> 
> There are no rules to war. The guy he shot was an insurgent, in otherwords an enemy. So what if he didnt have a weapon on him, whats to stop him a week from now after healing from his injury (whatever it is) from going back out and killing more of our troops? Its just one less guy we have to worry about it. In war, you have to have that mentality.
> 
> ...


 So, instead of shooting him why didn't we take him as a POW? He sure wouldn't have healed his wound and kept fighting if he was in a POW camp. Or is the policy to shoot everything that moves and only take them if they seem to be important? We may have been able to learn something from him, but now he is dead. It makes us look like ruthless killers with no control.


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > We are at war, no?
> ...


 Ever heard the saying "Fight fire with fire" or "an eye for an eye?

For every incident you call an american justice, a book could be written on Iraqi injustice. No matter how you cut it, we are holding ourselves to a much higher standard, but to battle an enemy like this, some incidents like this one will happen.


----------



## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > We are at war, no?
> ...


 Why not kill civilians? Because they are not actively going against our troops. Until they pick up a gun or whatever weapon and start actively participating in the war, they are still innocent.

In war its not about whose the better man that fought with the high morale BS. War is war. It all revolves around 1 thing. Killing the enemy. Never has it been different.

How are we "lowering" ourselves to them? War is dirty, no matter how you look at it. It always has. You dont think that when people fought wars hundreds and thousands of years ago that they just let injured enemies just chill and go on about living? I dont think so. The state of mentality you have to be in when you fight a war is not loving, caring, and nurturing...its shoot 'em up and move on to the next person.


----------



## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

seharebo said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > We are at war, no?
> ...


 Because then the liberals here in America would demand him rights *cough* Filo *cough*.









And war is nothing but being a ruthless killer.


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> ...its shoot 'em up and move on to the next person.


 A MEN! I don't like it any more than the next person, I would never trade an American life for an Iraqi one, but this is a fact some of us have accepted and some of us haven't.


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PiranhasaurusRex said:


> Ever heard the saying "Fight fire with fire" or "an eye for an eye?
> 
> No matter how you cut it, we are holding ourselves to a much higher standard


 Wow, contradict yourself much?


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Yeah, you can fight fire with fire, yes, but I thought the US was so damn civilized: if so, you'd be the better party and had made that guy a POW, instead of letting him bleed for a night to execute him later.
Israel/Palestina is what fight fire with fire results in: the more you shoot up Iraq, the more controversial footage will be released (and there will be - who thinks this is the only incident is naive), the harder the war on terror will be, and the more people will turn against the US - it takes a frickin' 3-year old to get that, but obviously the Republicans still think war and violence are the only way to solve problems.
Fine with me, as long as the consequences are for you to feel, not me.

Worse than 9/11: how about the nukes on Japan, the largest terrorists attacks ever (and yeah, they saved thousands of American lives indeed, but what about those tens and tens of thousands of dead or cancered up civilians - I guess they don't count), how about what you did to Vietnam - not exactly a pretty episode in your history either: and you invaded them, not reverse, so you started that conflict?


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> In war its not about whose the better man that fought with the high morale BS. War is war. It all revolves around 1 thing. Killing the enemy. Never has it been different.
> 
> How are we "lowering" ourselves to them? War is dirty, no matter how you look at it. It always has. You dont think that when people fought wars hundreds and thousands of years ago that they just let injured enemies just chill and go on about living? I dont think so.


 I'm sure there would be world war 2 veterans from any allied countries who would spit on you for saying such a thing. Do you think we bayonetted german soldiers when they surrendered in world war 2? Do you think we sent German POWs to camps to work until they died to support our war effort? NO! And you know why? BECAUSE WE WERE BETTER THAN THEM.

And before anyone starts up with german POWs getting shot, yeah it did happen but on a much smaller scale. Unlike the soldiers of today, our vets in world war 2 conducted themselves with something approximating dignity and honor.


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> PiranhasaurusRex said:
> 
> 
> > Ever heard the saying "Fight fire with fire" or "an eye for an eye?
> ...


 Try quoting my whole post and not taking my words out of context.


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

It's not out of context, did you or did you not say both of those things? You said "fight fire with fire" which equates to "do whatever they do" and then in the same post you said "but we're on a higher moral plane". Saying "oh iraqis do it more, so we can do it a little" doesn't change that.


----------



## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

I dont think he should be probed for the shooting.
Espeically after what happened to Margaret Hassan.


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> It's not out of context, did you or did you not say both of those things? You said "fight fire with fire" which equates to "do whatever they do" and then in the same post you said "but we're on a higher moral plane". Saying "oh iraqis do it more, so we can do it a little" doesn't change that.


 And the end of my post says...but to battle an enemy like this, some incidents like this one will happen.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

One more thing: those thousands of Iraqi civilians are dieing for your safety, for christ's sake!
Did they want your presence in Iraq, do they give a f*ck about your safety? No more than you care about them? Is it their fault Iraq is teeming with terrorists now?
They have nothing to do with 9/11 or the current mess in Iraq, and yet they pay the price to the fullest, not just in human lives but also with cities being shot to rubble - did you ever, for a second think about them, what they want, or what they need? No matter how grateful they are because you removed Saddam, does it justify what you are doing: it's not your livelihood that gets shelled, your family that gets shot to shreds, but that of tens of thousands of Iraq civilians that have as much to do with the war as you have, with the difference that it takes place on their door step.

You guys are a bunch of hypocrits and so damn indifferent about other people it's freightening and worrying:
If a terrorist commits action X, he's a filthy swine that deserves a hole in the head the size of a golf ball, but if a GI does the exact same, it's acceptable because it's war? WTF?
If civilians die it's terrible, but as soon as it fits American plans it's regarded as acceptable or inevitable, ignored or downplayed? WTF?
If any nation had the guts to have troops deployed on American soil, it would be your pattriottic duty to defend your country, but as soon as an Iraqi does it he's a terrorist that deserves to be executed in some back alley mosque? WTF?

Your theories and responses are all full of holes and hypocritical contradictions, that in the end boil down to just one thing: the US has the right to do anything to any country, and if someone else does the same to you, it's a bleeding outcry, terrorism or whatnot... WTF???


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> One more thing: those thousands of Iraqi civilians are dieing for your safety, for christ's sake!
> Did they want your presence in Iraq, do they give a f*ck about your safety? No more than you care about them? Is it their fault Iraq is teeming with terrorists now?
> They have nothing to do with 9/11 or the current mess in Iraq, and yet they pay the price to the fullest, not just in human lives but also with cities being shot to rubble - did you ever, for a second think about them, what they want, or what they need? No matter how grateful they are because you removed Saddam, does it justify what you are doing: it's not your livelihood that gets shelled, your family that gets shot to shreds, but that of tens of thousands of Iraq civilians that have as much to do with the war as you have, with the difference that it takes place on their door step.
> 
> ...


 This entire post is in defense of Iraqi civilians. No one wants civilians to die and it was not a civilian that was shot in the link. Period.


----------



## vfrex (Jan 25, 2003)

Whenever someone calls the a-bomb drops terrorist, they mention that we did it to save American soldier's lives, but they don't consider something else. Japanese civilians would have been killed in a ground invasion of Japan as well. That is war.

So the question now is, would civilian deaths have been more justified if we did a ground invasion? Would it no longer be called a "terrorist attack"? What about japanese soldiers lives?


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

My feeling is that Judazzz and ElTwitco are against the war because they don't agree with the U.S. govenments "justification". I could be wrong but that's my feeling and that is not what this topic is about. I am going to go do something meaningful and suck some sh*t out of my tank.


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PiranhasaurusRex said:


> My feeling is that Judazzz and ElTwitco are against the war because they don't agree with the U.S. govenments "justification". I could be wrong but that's my feeling and that is not what this topic is about. I am going to go do something meaningful and suck some sh*t out of my tank.


 I'm against the war because the rest of the world, myself included has to live with whatever fucked up world you cause as a result of your stupidity in the middle east. You aren't making the world better, you're making it worse. Not only that but you're spawning more terrorists and because you guys on the whole appear too stupid to comprehend that I and the rest of the world have to live with your f*cking mess.


----------



## john2798 (Aug 25, 2004)

I have no bad opinions about this seeing how the insurgents fight the war. Its hard to judge that soldier unless you are there going through the same situations he is going thru. Seems we are held to higher standards of war rules than the terrorists. What I do not understand is the American bashing. If you dissagree with the war, it is your opinion. But it seems in history, everytime a country is threatened by a tirany, the come crying to the United States. Its a shame that what has been forgotten in the past. Now who is hypocritical?


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Since when is speaking my mind hypocrisy?

And please don't bring up that old "You owe us" argument: without the US, Europe would have been different, without Europe the US might not even exist, or still be a British colony.



> I'm against the war because the rest of the world, myself included has to live with whatever fucked up world you cause as a result of your stupidity in the middle east. You aren't making the world better, you're making it worse. Not only that but you're spawning more terrorists and because you guys on the whole appear too stupid to comprehend that I and the rest of the world have to live with your f*cking mess.


Exactly























But they don't give a damn: war is the solution for anything, and if you get in the way or in the cross fire, tough luck.
If it serves Uncle Sam, everything's allowed, no matter how many have to suffer for it, or what the long-term effects are...


----------



## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

I think alot of you need to put yourself in the same position, all bullshit aside.. it really boils down to having some f*ck shoot at you then minutes later someone says hes faking dead, what do you do? (knowing a fellow marine just got killed the other day tending to a 'dead iraqi' that was booby-trapped)

I'm against bush, war, and all the other bullshit that follows.. but f*ck if I'm not going to shoot the c*nt too.


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

john2798 said:


> I have no bad opinions about this seeing how the insurgents fight the war. Its hard to judge that soldier unless you are there going through the same situations he is going thru. Seems we are held to higher standards of war rules than the terrorists. What I do not understand is the American bashing. If you dissagree with the war, it is your opinion. But it seems in history, everytime a country is threatened by a tirany, the come crying to the United States. Its a shame that what has been forgotten in the past. Now who is hypocritical?


 Apparently you aren't sure what "hypocritical means". Because you helped out the world in the past (nobody denies this, if they did they're horribly uninformed) it does not give you the right to do whatever you want in the present.

As for holding Americans to a higher moral standard than the terrorists, f*cking RIGHT. As westernizers, we're supposed to be better than them. We are supposed to be on a higher moral plane. What you have people doing, are saying Americans are not to be held to a higher standard than terrorists yet are somehow morally better, that's self contradictory. Either you're better than them, or you're pieces of sh*t like the terrorists are, you can't act like terrorists and be better than them at the same time.


----------



## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Drew said:


> I think alot of you need to put yourself in the same position, all bullshit aside.. it really boils down to having some f*ck shoot at you then minutes later someone says hes faking dead, what do you do? (knowing a fellow marine just got killed the other day tending to a 'dead iraqi' that was booby-trapped)
> 
> I'm against bush, war, and all the other bullshit that follows.. but f*ck if I'm not going to shoot the c*nt too.













> but f*ck if I'm not going to shoot the c*nt too.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> As for holding Americans to a higher moral standard than the terrorists, f*cking RIGHT. As westernizers, we're supposed to be better than them. We are supposed to be on a higher moral plane. What you have people doing, are saying Americans are not to be held to a higher standard than terrorists yet are somehow morally better, that's self contradictory. Either you're better than them, or you're pieces of sh*t like the terrorists are, you can't act like terrorists and be better than them at the same time.


 Hey, I agree. As soon as we start kidnapping and beheading their civilians on tape, then you can say that we're no better than them


----------



## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

Fact is: When the muslims stop with spreading these extremists thoughts(and acts), the western countries don`t have to react on them, and the world is a better place.









It`s that simple!!!


----------



## vfrex (Jan 25, 2003)

To judazz and elTwitcho, you believe that the insurgency is justified, right? The insurgents are fighting 'oppression'. I'm not arguing here whether they are right or wrong, only asking if you believe that their motivation for fighting is that they are defending themselves from harm.


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

vfrex said:


> To judazz and elTwitcho, you believe that the insurgency is justified, right? The insurgents are fighting 'oppression'. I'm not arguing here whether they are right or wrong, only asking if you believe that their motivation for fighting is that they are defending themselves from harm.


 Justified? No probably not. Do I support the insurgents and hope they win? No, because that's not the best thing for the Iraqi people either since they don't seem to have an agenda other than "make americans die". But is it understandable why they would take up arms against an occupying force? Of course it is. You and I would do the same thing.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm still waiting for the Terrorists to hold their own court of inquiry over their own attrocities. Ooops, forgot they are the victims here. I don't recall reading any Muslim country condemming the butchering of that woman that was helping Iraqi's. For that matter, they remain silent on just about every killing of a Westener. The Terrorists had the woman blindfolded and shot in the head, mutiliated her body and dumped her in the street.

But I suppose she asked for it. Lets just focus on American soldiers.


----------



## vfrex (Jan 25, 2003)

I haven't seen the video, but from what i've heard, a marine shouts "its a trap, shoot him". He thought his life was in danger. Was he justified?


----------



## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

Did we (in Holland-Europe) shoot at the American, British and others when they come to rescue us, after distroing Hitler(Saddam).No, we welcomed them.
If they don`t resist, they`re all free. Free to do what they want, like us. They can start a democraty, but no.........


----------



## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

vfrex said:


> I haven't seen the video, but from what i've heard, a marine shouts "its a trap, shoot him". He thought his life was in danger. Was he justified?


http://tv.reuters.com/
"Raw Footage: Falluja Shooting Caught on Tape"

Marine 1: These are the wounded that they never picked up

Marine shooter: He's f*cking faking he's dead, he's faking he's f*cking dead

Marine 2: Just wait

*gun fire*

Marine shooter: he's dead now

edit: No, its not justified IMO, as well he seemed to get some sort of sick pleasure out of shooting him. (still- probably would have did the same thing..)


----------



## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

hastatus said:


> I'm still waiting for the Terrorists to hold their own court of inquiry over their own attrocities. Ooops, forgot they are the victims here. I don't recall reading any Muslim country condemming the butchering of that woman that was helping Iraqi's. For that matter, they remain silent on just about every killing of a Westener. The Terrorists had the woman blindfolded and shot in the head, mutiliated her body and dumped her in the street.
> 
> But I suppose she asked for it. Lets just focus on American soldiers.










So true.


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

hastatus said:


> I'm still waiting for the Terrorists to hold their own court of inquiry over their own attrocities. Ooops, forgot they are the victims here. I don't recall reading any Muslim country condemming the butchering of that woman that was helping Iraqi's. For that matter, they remain silent on just about every killing of a Westener. The Terrorists had the woman blindfolded and shot in the head, mutiliated her body and dumped her in the street.
> 
> But I suppose she asked for it. Lets just focus on American soldiers.


 Frank, you like a few of the other people here are arguing a point nobody contends. Nobody is talking about insurgent actions being fine and especially nobody is talking about the beheading of kidnapped westerners being fine. Argue the point that what they are doing is wrong all you like, but nobody is disagreeing with you.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Worse than 9/11: how about the nukes on Japan, the largest terrorists attacks ever (and yeah, they saved thousands of American lives indeed, but what about those tens and tens of thousands of dead or cancered up civilians - I guess they don't count),


Actually, the nukes on Japan saved the U.S. from having to invade Japan -which probably saved millions of Japanese lives.

Thanks for critisizing America's actions in WWII, after we freed Holland from Nazi occupation.


----------



## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

@ ElTwitcho But I don`t here you condem it either. You`re always `protecting` them.
And when the Americans do the things the terrorists do you say they are bad people and all that kind a things.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> elTwitcho Posted on Nov 17 2004, 05:31 PM
> QUOTE (hastatus @ Nov 17 2004, 01:17 PM)
> I'm still waiting for the Terrorists to hold their own court of inquiry over their own attrocities. Ooops, forgot they are the victims here. I don't recall reading any Muslim country condemming the butchering of that woman that was helping Iraqi's. For that matter, they remain silent on just about every killing of a Westener. The Terrorists had the woman blindfolded and shot in the head, mutiliated her body and dumped her in the street.
> 
> ...


My point is this (from my own Vietnam experience), war is never pretty, people die both innocent and soldiers. People are human, they crack under pressure, that is why today PTSD is well-known. Unless you are in direct combat and in the skin of the soldier who shot that wounded Terrorists, all this sanctimonious pandering for who is at fault is BS. Freedom does not come free. Personally, I think the entire world deserves what it gets from hate. I would like to see the U.S. bring its soldiers home and let the rest of the world deal with their own problems. Even if it means that Canada or the Netherworld fall into terrorists hands or some other dictator that will give free health care (behind the barrel of a gun).









So criticize the U.S. all you want and be an arm chair quarterback. If you have not been in combat and are not privy to agony of war, then you are no better than the government official who sits behind a desk and sends young men to die. Or the official that butchers their own people to stay in power.


----------



## janus (Oct 28, 2004)




----------



## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> btw: doing away with the Geneva Convention???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You kind of took that out of context. I clearly said that i think the other side must violate the rules set forth by the convention first. It is clear that these insurgents have done so. Kidnapping and killing of unarmed non combatants is just one example of this. Im not a monster, but i say if the other side throws it out the window then the United States should not be too concerned with it either. Its like getting into a fight with someone using brass knuckles and just letting them pummel you because its illegal to use brass knuckles in defense.


----------



## Soldat (Aug 28, 2004)

""So criticize the U.S. all you want and be an arm chair quarterback. If you have not been in combat and are not privy to agony of war, then you are no better than the government official who sits behind a desk and sends young men to die. Or the official that butchers their own people to stay in power

Exactly what I was thinking Frank.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> seharebo said:
> 
> 
> > Ms_Nattereri said:
> ...


 Wow I feel for YOU if you think there are no rules to war. Try reading up on the Geneva Convention.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Even worse: if it was the other way around, an Iraqi executing an American GI, you'd all have your judgement ready, wheter you saw the whole deal or not: but because this is 'sensitive' material, now you don't?
> ...


 Do we have to stoop to these insurgents level of being savages? Or are we still the U.S. who respects treaties that we signed?


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

vfrex said:


> I haven't seen the video, but from what i've heard, a marine shouts "its a trap, shoot him". He thought his life was in danger. Was he justified?


 NO the way it was, the dude was barely able to move, and the marine says HES DEAD...other guy says WAIT...then just shoots him.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Gordeez said:


> I dont think he should be probed for the shooting.
> Espeically after what happened to Margaret Hassan.


 Are we savages like them?


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

I can't even read all the posts.. I got to the beginning of the 2nd page and couldn't stand it anymore. Some of your posts drip with ignorance. The man is at war, and the Iraqis have been leaving behind booby-trapped dead bodies rigged with explosives, feigned death only to pop up and shoot, and set all sorts of other traps. His friend had just died the other day, and he himself had been shot in the face the previous day (from another article). He was COMPLETELY justified in shooting the man on the ground. He didn't do it sadistically, he did it as an act of war and in self defense. The belief that you can play politics in war and follow a rigid set of rules to a T is fantasy. Now of course that doesn't mean that they can do anything they want, but the lines blur. I applaud this US soldier.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> janus said:
> 
> 
> > If they don`t shoot the wounded Iraq-soldiers they themselves are gonna be the one who will be shot(by the wounded soldiers)!!!
> ...


 You guys remind me of those who supported the "free fire zones" back in Nam. Wow.







Shoot ANYTHING that moves.


----------



## john2798 (Aug 25, 2004)

As I said before, I feel no anger towards the soldier because of war is what it is, WAR. I agree with Frank, lets bring our soldiers home and let the rest of the world fend for themselves.


----------



## Rikimaru (May 3, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Mmm... this is what I expected: justifying the point-blank execution of an injured man, foe or not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

Filo said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > seharebo said:
> ...


 yes we should all recite the geneva convention while under fire...







How do you know he didnt have a grenade in his hand or he was faking his death so that the marines walk by and if they had turned their backs wham! dead. Its easy to critized them while watching all this on tape because you have the convience to be rational and think things out. If you havent been through combat you would know that a split descison could either save your life or end it. As for the marine who shot the iraqi i dont applaud his action nor do i condem them it is not my place to judge him. I wasnt there in his shoes so what gives me the right to say he was right or he was wrong. War is not pretty boys and girls. thats just how it is.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> Thanks for critisizing America's actions in WWII, after we freed Holland from Nazi occupation.


Oh my, there we go again....









Just forget about your European ancestry, without whom your precious nation wouldn't even exist.
That "We saved your ass in WW2" is such a void argument: basically your just acting like a parasite trying to get respect over the backs of those that fought in WW2, for _your_ freedom as well - and as a thank you you abuse their efforts, disrespect their sacrifices to make a point??? And you call yourself a patriot??? Disgusting








And btw: it's mainly the Canadians and Polish that liberated Holland, so don't credit yourself with things your nation has only a minor part in...



> lets bring our soldiers home and let the rest of the world fend for themselves.


Yeah, do the world a favor and do that.
Don't forget to build a fence - preferably electric, with guard towers and machine gun turrets - around your borders (for your own safety, of course...)


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

xplosivelikec4 said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Ms_Nattereri said:
> ...


 Stop jacking off. Second, had those marines opened fire on a dozen men and women without visable weapons, would you have said they might have had hidden weapons on them?


----------



## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

Filo said:


> xplosivelikec4 said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


sorry about the jacking had to get it out of my system. anyway i guess if someone told you that crowd had weapons you'd go over to them and ask them? If your life is hanging on a very thin line I guess you would piss it away by being polite and asking iraqi citizens if you could peek under their robes to see if the had anything on them.







I dont think so...you'd be as trigger happy as the next guy. remember marines and soilders were are normal people like you and me. they all have familys and lives to think about and that goes vice versa. so if your trying to think of war civily than good luck. war is war there are no rights and no wrongs. thats just the way it is...

when you break it down its a big game of survival. not politics not revenge just survival. Brutal? yep.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Judazzz Posted on Nov 17 2004, 06:45 PM
> QUOTE (Bullsnake @ Nov 17 2004, 06:34 PM)
> Thanks for critisizing America's actions in WWII, after we freed Holland from Nazi occupation.
> 
> ...


Works for me, then you'd have nothing to whine about except your own country and what goes on there w/o American help.


----------



## BigBadBlackRhom (Sep 10, 2004)

_"A buddy the day before had been killed in a very similar incident where an insurgent who was playing dead had in fact been booby trapped, and a number of Marines had been injured and wounded and one Marine was killed," Marks said._

On that note you cant really blame the guy. On the oppostite side of the argument we have...

_"Every soldier on the ground knows it's an absolute basic of warfare that when you have a wounded person that is not a threat to them, it is absolutely prohibited to further injure or to kill that person. It's a real basic of international law," Crawshaw said._

But, how the hell do you know if a wounded soldier is not a threat to you unless its obvious/too late/etc? Common lesson in the military is : Its all about descisions, you hesistate, you die.

So Crawshaw message to our troops (and every soldier basically) is:

_"Dont shoot unless youre shot at"_

In that case you better hope he misses.


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Filo said:


> Stop jacking off. Second, had those marines opened fire on a dozen men and women without visable weapons, would you have said they might have had hidden weapons on them?


 But they didn't open fire on a dozen men and women in a crowd. They came into a mosque which was previously filled with militans spraying AK-47 fire like there was no tomorrow. They saw a lifeless body on the ground. Previously, corpses had been either rigged with explosives (killing several GIs, including one of the guys friends), or militans feigned death, only to spring back to life with a grenade or ammunition fire. Another soldier pointed out that the militant (who was definately not a POW, but still an active combatant as far as previous encounters of that type had gone) was still alive, and so they shot him. Case close.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

vfrex said:


> To judazz and elTwitcho, you believe that the insurgency is justified, right? The insurgents are fighting 'oppression'. I'm not arguing here whether they are right or wrong, only asking if you believe that their motivation for fighting is that they are defending themselves from harm.


 I'm not saying it's justified, but it's understandable, in my eyes. I'm not talking about Al Qaeda and Co. that have their own agenda and for which Iraq is a mere stage (could have been anywhere), nor about former Baath Party members who have nothing to live for.

I'm talking about Iraqi's that have lost family, friends and/or home, ordinary people that, according to many here, are terrorists because they share the same eligion as those that flew planes into the WTC.
Those people may have lost everything they lived for, by the hands of those that invaded the country to liberate and help them - it takes a very eloquent person to convince such a person that the American presence in Iraq can be justified, that all the human and material losses can be justified.
I don't blame those people, because most people would do the same if they were in that position, Americans included. Is it a smart thing to do? Can't say, as they are most likely labelled as terrorists, and treated accordingly (ie. bullet in the brain, injured or not).
But their feelings of revenge are the same as those felt by the Americans after 9/11: the feeling of wanting to get even with those that murdered their loved ones, destroyed their homes or neighbourhood etc. - who denies this denies the fact those people are just humans too, ith a family, a live and emotions...



> If a terrorist commits action X, he's a filthy swine that deserves a hole in the head the size of a golf ball, but if a GI does the exact same, it's acceptable because it's war?
> If civilians die it's terrible, but as soon as it fits American plans it's regarded as acceptable or inevitable, ignored or downplayed?
> If any nation had the guts to have troops deployed on American soil, it would be your pattriottic duty to defend your country, but as soon as an Iraqi does it he's a terrorist that deserves to be executed in some back alley mosque?


Well?


----------



## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Filo said:


> Gordeez said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think he should be probed for the shooting.
> ...


 In times of war, Yes. Theres no room for pussies and crying **** saying
that was wrong. The Weak dont Make it!

Also, we wouldnt have gotten sh*t from him anyhow.ONe Less Terrorist IMO


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > Judazzz Posted on Nov 17 2004, 06:45 PM
> > QUOTE (Bullsnake @ Nov 17 2004, 06:34 PM)
> > Thanks for critisizing America's actions in WWII, after we freed Holland from Nazi occupation.
> >
> ...


 Well, what _is_ your help???
Keeping the Germans out? Providing a steady supply of greasy fast food snacks, oversized cars and cheap entertainment?


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Stop jacking off. Second, had those marines opened fire on a dozen men and women without visable weapons, would you have said they might have had hidden weapons on them?
> ...


 I have yet to see a video of some people SPRINGING up from the dead and shooting american soldiers. Case is not closed as that soldier commited a war crime, and it is not justified just because of beheadings, that is BS-we are not savages.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Gordeez said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Gordeez said:
> ...


 No need to use homosexuals in a derogatory manner, I believe that is against forum rules. There is a difference of insurgent and terrorist.


----------



## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

Filo said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


 your life of luxury will never allow you to see behind what cnn has put in front of you. so if you want to see the real deal join up or join the heal iraq foundation and take a nice field trip to beautiful iraq where you might be able to witness that first hand in which i hope you do so that you come home with new look on life.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

xplosivelikec4 said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Enriqo_Suavez said:
> ...


 lmao...its funny how you assume I have had it so great. I will not even go into what cards I have had handed to me because I don't want sympathy. When I posted graphic material here I was told take it down and told that it was not appropiate. I don't bother going to CNN for REAL footage anymore because they always cut it off. I would post the link for a webpage that has day by day footage of Iraq, but I don't want to be warned


----------



## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Filo said:


> Enriqo_Suavez said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


 Whether you have seen it or not, it is a regular occurance. These people do not follow the rules of war in ANY way, shape, or form. I suggest you join up if you believe otherwise


----------



## User (May 31, 2004)

Well, IMO it shouldn't have been done, but if I was in the guys shoes and I wanted to go home alive and not in a bodybag, and since I value my life over any enemies life, I can't honestly say I would'nt have done the same thing if he was moving.

I don't see how anyone can complain about this, after that women was shot in the head.

Their both acts that happen in war, what more can a person say?


----------



## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

:laugh: go enlist in the army or marines on your contract make sure they will send you to iraq after a.i.t, then go through one day of the horror of urban warfare, snipers everywhere, haveing to raid buildings and the enemy jumping out of no where fireing at you, rpg's comeing at you, morters, grenades,mines, traps, suicide bombers then sit there all day in a fire fight with a couple of thousand in a mosq...watch a couple of your buddies go down in the process..then when you think youv'e killed the majority of them, or they start to retreat you get the signal to move in...

the adrenalin, the anger, the guy sitting there trying to play dead..does he have a bomb on him, does he have a detonator on him, does he have a grenade on him or even a pistal... your meaning to tell me some of you would prefer to check what the guy has on him, if he's a threat or not??right after a fire fight?? take him as a pow??? do you understand that if you hesitate for one second, especially in a war like this that you are dead.. and possibly the ones around you too...yeah he didn't have anything on him, they found that out after he was dead and after our soldiers weren't at risk, you do not find this out with you and your squad is at risk, you would hesitate, then someone else in thier right mind would kill him fast, and then request that they place you as far away from his squad as possable..


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Judazzz Posted on Nov 17 2004, 07:00 PM
> QUOTE (vfrex @ Nov 17 2004, 06:00 PM)
> To judazz and elTwitcho, you believe that the insurgency is justified, right? The insurgents are fighting 'oppression'. I'm not arguing here whether they are right or wrong, only asking if you believe that their motivation for fighting is that they are defending themselves from harm.
> 
> ...


My reply to your "well" is simple. You are in a plastic world where everything is peachy keen. Everyone is nice and nice people don't kill people PERIOD. Just from reading your remarks, I detect HESITATE, ASK THE ENEMY IS IT OK TO SHOOT YOU. Then wait for political correctness to set in BEFORE he shoots you. Dropping a bomb is indescriminate and sometimes innocent people die. The foreign fighters that make up El Queda and other battling groups are not Iraqi's. Yes there are Sadam loyalists fighting with the terrorists. They ran and hid until the moment was right to resurface to put an iraqi face ON those fighting the U.S. and its coalition. But then again, Iraqi's are beginning to fight for their own country with the U.S. Soldiers. So far, I've not seen you nor others who are spitting on the U.S. soldiers once mention the good things going on in Iraqi from U.S. Soldiers rebuilding schools, humanitarian aide, etc. etc. etc. The people you cite "Those people may have lost everything they lived for, by the hands of those that invaded the country to liberate and help them........" those people were dead meat during Sadam reign and they are dead meat now with the terrorists, since they are killing them too. It would have been better for you to say....."they want to be left alone like everyone else in the world" that would make more sense then just keep whining about the U.S. presence. We are there and will stay until the job is done. In the meantime, perhaps you can preach to the terrorists in your own country about how politically incorrect it is to shoot someone down just because they made a film. That is why in the U.S. its ok for an asshole like Michael Moore to make propaganda films and speak "his truth" without having his head cut off. But then you never know what the future holds if the terrorists succeed in taking over "politically correct" countries. Like I said, I think its better for the U.S. to remain home and let the rest of the world deal with their own problems without U.S. help or taxpayer money.

Works for me, works for the taxpayer and certainly puts things in the proper perspective.


----------



## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

Filo said:


> xplosivelikec4 said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


 you've missed my point Filo. No matter how bad you got it here the guys out in iraq have it worst. you can watch all the video you want but it will never equal up to the real thing.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > Judazzz Posted on Nov 17 2004, 07:00 PM
> > QUOTE (vfrex @ Nov 17 2004, 06:00 PM)
> > To judazz and elTwitcho, you believe that the insurgency is justified, right? The insurgents are fighting 'oppression'. I'm not arguing here whether they are right or wrong, only asking if you believe that their motivation for fighting is that they are defending themselves from harm.
> >
> ...


I don't live in a plastic world in which everything is shiny and happy: the US thinks it's so great, civilized and noble, feels so superior, hell it even starts wars to spread those values: in fact, it's about the only justification of the war so far that holds any ground.
But it makes me wonder about what credibility is left when you go to war because of certain reasons, and then commit the same things (and the Falluja incident is no incident, unfortunately: it's war, and whatever goes on, we won't ever even know half of it): what sets you apart from those you loathe when you do the same? All I hear is "Those terrorist bastards need to die because of their atrocities", but when a GI does it it's justified with "it's just a war", and all of a sudden it's acceptable. I don't buy that: if you fundamentally believe in your own superiority and righteousness, then you simply don't go down to their level.
I would have expected better from the US, that's all - if you want to be better, you first have to do better...


----------



## saminoski (Jun 3, 2004)

bla bla bla. war is hell, get use to it. these guys are out there putting their lives on the line to make the WORLD a safer place, not just America.


----------



## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

xplosivelikec4 said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Enriqo_Suavez said:
> ...


It is far easier to stand on the sidelines and cry foul, than it is to get in the game and risk your own "assets."


----------



## caribekeeper (Feb 26, 2004)

I always thought that the object of war was to kill your enemy before he kills you ??

Rich


----------



## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

saminoski said:


> bla bla bla. war is hell, get use to it. these guys are out there putting their lives on the line to make the WORLD a safer place, not just America.


 hahaha...so egoistic and at the same time pathetic.......

What do you want from 'us' to thank you?Or do you expect from a Greek to say that you save us from a "bigger" threat?Or do you think that i will see you us the messaiah regarding WW2?We resist the most to the German-Italian union in WW2 and this can't be taken from us!

p.s.(1) The first day after G.Bush re-ellected,the US recognised F.Y.R.O.M. as "Macedonia" which as many know that 'MACEDONIA" ,IS,WAS and WILL BE forever greek territory based on history!What do you think about that?Is that my immpression or mr. Bush after middle-east is targeting the Balkans?

p.s.(2)I don't believe in countries,flags,borders e.tc. but all the things described by Jonas make me extremelly maad!


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

caribekeeper said:


> I always thought that the object of war was to kill your enemy before he kills you ??
> 
> Rich


 that's the general idea.. althought lately I think the object of war has been to kill the enemy and then listen to thousands of angrly liberals yell at you for killing the enemy


----------



## caribekeeper (Feb 26, 2004)

Quite true...war is becoming too politically correct.

Rich


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

to show just how truly humane you are, I think we should kill all enemies by giving them a lethal injection after feeding them some strawberry ice cream; that is of course if they consent to being killed first, because if it's not OK with them, we'll keep them alive and free as long as it takes and risk them killing us - but hey, at least we'll be BETTER than them and not SAVAGES like them


----------



## bryang (May 2, 2004)

i think everyone is jumping off topic. honestly after incidents of faking dead i still cant see any valid argument to taking that guy in as a pow.

lets speak hypothetically
if that guy WAS faking dead and the marines tried to take him in what the f*ck do you think would have happened. honestly do you think both of the marines would have survived. what if he was packed with explosives and they tried dragging him off assuming he was already dead. both of the marines would definately be dead. also to filo, how the hell can you say because their is no footage of insurgents faking death to kill american soldiers, that it didnt happen. how can you make such a claim. another thing. stop labeling the american public with this ego up our ass. contrary to what we might think, our country leaders do not reflect our views on everything.

bryan


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> I'm against the war because the rest of the world, myself included has to live with whatever fucked up world you cause as a result of your stupidity in the middle east.


 What kind of fucked up world do you live in? I'd really like to know. I've been to Canada over half a dozen times. Been all across the country. I'd live there if I didn't live here. The most fucked up thing in Canada is the gas prices, but that is the fault of YOUR government.


----------



## bryang (May 2, 2004)

how can you be politically correct in a war with suicide bombers? it seems that in this situation some of the rules have to go out the window.


----------



## bryang (May 2, 2004)

PiranhasaurusRex said:


> The most fucked up thing in Canada is the gas prices, but that is the fault of YOUR government.


 id really not like to get into gas


----------



## PiranhasaurusRex (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> hastatus said:
> 
> 
> > > Judazzz Posted on Nov 17 2004, 06:45 PM
> ...


 Someone from the Netherlands cutting on American's diet and entertainment.

Put down the hash pipe and leave the smoke shop.


----------



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> xplosivelikec4 said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


On the same note, I could say that about you guys who support the war. WHY DONT YOU JOIN THE MARINES/ARMY AND TRY TO FIND WMDs???


----------



## bryang (May 2, 2004)

Filo said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > xplosivelikec4 said:
> ...


 that was just ignorant


----------



## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

caribekeeper said:


> I always thought that the object of war was to kill your enemy before he kills you ??
> 
> Rich


 exactly, i'm against the war also, doesn't mean i think our troops should risk thier lives for the option to take pow's, who needs the paper work?? ..







keep it cleeeaan


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

haha judazzz, you gotta stop blaming america. We're providing you with cheap entertainment, food, and cars? Whos the one buying it? Maybe if people over there had any self control, we wouldn't be selling it. Everything spouted from your posts are complaints, sarcastic comments, and more complaints. Everybody else is always wrong and your life is a living hell (afraid of your life? bombings all over your city? beheadings?). As far as I know, Canada isn't being bombed either. The only thing they're affected by is the border crossings from the US(common civlians).


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PiranhasaurusRex said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > hastatus said:
> ...


Awww, I sense jealousy here, and it's not a pretty sight









Seriously, what _do_ you have to offer Europe?

And Diddye: thanks for that fascinating insight in my psyche


----------



## bryang (May 2, 2004)

apparently a lot since europe buys so many american products.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Judazzz Posted: Nov 17 2004, 07:49 PM
> 
> I don't live in a plastic world in which everything is shiny and happy: the US thinks it's so great, civilized and noble, feels so superior, hell it even starts wars to spread those values: in fact, it's about the only justification of the war so far that holds any ground.
> But it makes me wonder about what credibility is left when you go to war because of certain reasons, and then commit the same things (and the Falluja incident is no incident, unfortunately: it's war, and whatever goes on, we won't ever even know half of it): what sets you apart from those you loathe when you do the same? All I hear is "Those terrorist bastards need to die because of their atrocities", but when a GI does it it's justified with "it's just a war", and all of a sudden it's acceptable. I don't buy that: if you fundamentally believe in your own superiority and righteousness, then you simply don't go down to their level.
> I would have expected better from the US, that's all - if you want to be better, you first have to do better...


The U.S. IS Great, Civilized and Noble. And we are militarially SUPERIOR. And the goal is to spread FREEDOM. What does the Netherlands offer except SHOES? And perhaps some SMOKES and a HOOKER in every street corner window? PLAAAAAASEEEEEE.
















Before you speak of Credibility, get some of your own for your own country.:laugh: I would have expected better from the Netherlands and instead its just whine whine whine........the U.S. thinks they are better than us....Booooo Hoooooooo Hooooo. Fact is we are. Ask the Cuban Dance team that just asked to stay in the U.S. instead of going back to Cuba where the government pays for everything including health care. I didn't see them go to Netherlands for protection.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

BTW, doesn't anyone really know where the Netherlands is?????? Isn't it that tiny spot where the words barely fit in the country itself?


----------



## rbp75 (May 2, 2004)

I must admit I am outraged by this act of stupidity, shooting this unarmed insurigent in the head with an m16, he should have shot him in the knee caps and the stomach allowing for a more slower agonizing death. Thats alot more than these pieces of sh*t that taint the planet deserve. May they all rot in hell!!!!


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

rbp75 said:


> I must admit I am outraged by this act of stupidity, shooting this unarmed insurigent in the head with an m16, he should have shot him in the knee caps and the stomach allowing for a more slower agonizing death. Thats alot more than these pieces of sh*t that taint the planet deserve. May they all rot in hell!!!!












Judazz , Quit Belly Aching 








Us is the best no matter who we have to gun down ....
and if they brought that kind of thing over here as you requested , I would be right there trying to shoot them in the heads also


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rbp75 said:


> I must admit I am outraged by this act of stupidity, shooting this unarmed insurigent in the head with an m16, he should have shot him in the knee caps and the stomach allowing for a more slower agonizing death. Thats alot more than these pieces of sh*t that taint the planet deserve. May they all rot in hell!!!!



















U-S-A !!!!
U-S-A !!!!


----------



## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

f*ck YEA!
NICE SHOT MARINE!
ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!
OOHRA!

I don't blame the Marine for doing what he did. In fact, I'll support him EVERY inch of the way for shooting the "injured" insurgent point blank.Given the circumstances that he was put in a day before with his own Marine killed by a human-IED, and how he was shot in the face....Good on him for making that judgement and shooting the little bastard.

On a different note, the news-media is a burdeon to the US military. We should NEVER have news correspondants embedded...hence the reason why we have our OWN combat correspondance!

....Let flaming commence! Yut


----------



## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

ProdigalMarine said:


> f*ck YEA!
> NICE SHOT MARINE!
> ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!
> OOHRA!
> ...


 EXACTLY!


----------



## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

i would have shot him to. circumstantially i would have done it. i am not a hypocrite so I think the trooper was doing what he felt was right. it's war folks and that's that.

ProdigalMarine,
well put sir, well put.


----------



## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

Filo said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > xplosivelikec4 said:
> ...


 lol look at my avatar... been there


----------



## adultswim (Oct 21, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Jewelz said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad one of our moderators is finally willing to take actions by suspending those who blatantly disrespect others by calling them "terrorists or wanna-be's"; because it's so important that we treat each other with respect and never resort to name-calling
> ...


 Well killing someone sharp and quick is a little different than slowly sawing their head off, doing so on purpose just so we can see it, and also we havent killed any innocent bystandards like that poor woman on purpose like they did. So there is a little bit of a difference now isn't there.


----------



## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Filo said:


> I have yet to see a video of some people SPRINGING up from the dead and shooting american soldiers. Case is not closed as that soldier commited a war crime, and it is not justified just because of beheadings, that is BS-we are not savages.


 Yet we do read about documented reports where Iraqi rebels and Insurgents have given the white flag as a sign to unconditional surrender and as the Marines, soldiers approach to supposed surrendering "POW's", the rebels or insurgents open fire.


----------



## adultswim (Oct 21, 2004)

Alright. I want all the guys and girls who are so offended by this war, to the point of not likeing America or are ashamed to be an American to answer a question for me please.
If you are so hurt and offended ect. ect. why not leave America? Go someplace else. We are in this war for the longrun now, no geting out of it we are too deep. So if you don't want to be a part of it leave we have plenty of people to take your place. Why not leave?


----------

