# Italy bans Islamic burqas



## User (May 31, 2004)

> August 01, 2005
> ITALY has banned Islamic burqas under tough terrorism laws that provide two-year jail terms and E2000 ($3200) fines for anyone caught covering their face in a public place.
> 
> The counter-terrorism package, passed by Italy's parliament yesterday, doubles the existing penalty for wearing a burqa or chador -- traditional robes worn by Muslim women to cover their faces -- or full-faced helmets or balaclavas in public.
> ...


Discuss.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

honestly, this is only the beginning of stuff like this. France did it a while ago, and more countries will continue as the world changes.

Its hard for me to have a point of view on this because it doesnt affect me.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

scrubbs said:


> honestly, this is only the beginning of stuff like this. France did it a while ago, and more countries will continue as the world changes.
> 
> Its hard for me to have a point of view on this because it doesnt affect me.
> [snapback]1140303[/snapback]​


Thank you for backing my statement up that Canadians dont have to deal with this crap.


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

sorry to say this, im all for religious beliefs and all but think of burkas like this...........if you see a guy or girl walking aorund with a mask on covering their face your going to wonder whats up......even by a bank if they have one on.........i feel same goes for the burkas.....they can use them to conceal their face, not saying that they are going to do anything. hope i dont offend anyone.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

I think its good. IN todays age and times...Everyone is suspect.


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

Gordeez said:


> I think its good. IN todays age and times...Everyone is suspect.
> [snapback]1140327[/snapback]​


exactly.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

Fido said:


> scrubbs said:
> 
> 
> > honestly, this is only the beginning of stuff like this. France did it a while ago, and more countries will continue as the world changes.
> ...


actually, i meant it as i do not wear anything that would be outlawed by the governemnt. i am a tshirt and jeans guy. i dont wear a cross, burka, turban or anything. Although i will start experiencing this sort of thing when i move to france in september. I'm sure at some point we will follow someones lead, as this is a global thing.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

man i feel stupid..i thought burgas was your way or a kool way of saying burgers.im thinking they got islamic burgers? and damn now there gona out law them..lol


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## wasabi-glow (Jun 30, 2005)

I totatlly agree with this banning. Actually, if you go to any islamic country, they require you to wear their garb and stuff like that on your head... Now, I guess it is also right that these Islamic folks living in Europe and USA that they should also abide by the dress codes of USA and EUROPEAN countries. I want them to wear Bikinis if they are in the beach or wear miniskirts as well as those sexy dress. As for the Guys, I want them to wear T-SHIRTS saying "PHUCK OSAMA" and "I LOVE NEW YORK" shirts!.. enough of the covering up...


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

I like italy as they are practically the only country in europe who still remains englands ally in the war on terror and its good they have banned these islamic burqas.


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## sicklid-holic (Mar 25, 2005)

Im for it. Now United States should be passed more stronger anti-terrorism laws.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

i remember back a few years ago in california i think it was a lady would not remove hers to take her pic for her drivers liscense..and it went to court i think and she won..


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

sicklid-holic said:


> Im for it. Now United States should be passed more stronger anti-terrorism laws.
> [snapback]1140543[/snapback]​


But in the United States someone will get offended and say their rights are being taken away, then a stupid lawsuit will follow.

I agree with this. I know people's freedom is being taken away, but for security reasons and safety for everyone I'd be for it. Everyone is suspect.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm not sure what to think of it, but I'd be surprised if this decision will do anything positive (I don't really see the point, as burqa's are in no possible way connected to terrorism, the spread of it or the prevention of it)
Instead, it will only feed those that already complain about freedoms lost and about religious discrimination (ever-lamenting hippies, but more importantly muslims themselves).


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> I'm not sure what to think of it, but I'd be surprised if this decision will do anything positive (*I don't really see the point, as burqa's are in no possible way connected to terrorism, the spread of it or the prevention of it*)
> Instead, it will only feed those that already complain about freedoms lost and about religious discrimination (ever-lamenting hippies, but more importantly muslims themselves).
> [snapback]1140739[/snapback]​


took the words right out of my mouth


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

the intreasting bit is that the Burkas arent religious clothing orignally, it was a fashion that later somehow became religious


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## novicimo (Sep 21, 2004)

Finnally a country that has the balls to do whats needed to be done.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

novicimo said:


> Finnally a country that has the balls to do whats needed to be done.
> [snapback]1140786[/snapback]​


Why was that needed? Do you really think abolishing burqa's will decrease the chances of a terrorist attack, or stop people from planning one?
If not, why was this something that needed to be done?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Im split...

The first half of me says that its good...so everybody has an identity and such...

The second half puts it into perspective for myself. I would be outraged if my country made laws telling me I couldnt practice my culture.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

it wont work..its like saying if you got tattoo's then your a criminal and you must be put on a island with your kind..tattoo's dont make the person an d niter do these burgas..its the person inside..we need to know whos comming into the country.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Hold on a second here... Isn't Europe supposed to be so much more tolerant of "diversity" than the nasty-wasty, backwards USA? Oddly enough, although Europe now has TWO bans on religiously-based clothing, the USA has passed no such "blanket" bans on religiously-based clothing. Makes one wonder...


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> Hold on a second here... Isn't Europe supposed to be so much more tolerant of "diversity" than the nasty-wasty, backwards USA? Oddly enough, although Europe now has TWO bans on religiously-based clothing, the USA has passed no such "blanket" bans on religiously-based clothing. Makes one wonder...
> [snapback]1140889[/snapback]​


dont brand every country in Europe down to one countries laws! That would NEVER pass in the UK as we have simply too many Muslims who would react very badly to it.

The only point I see to it is that it will prevent people hiding their faces, and therefore be more identifiable in the event of a terrorist attack.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> Jewelz said:
> 
> 
> > Hold on a second here... Isn't Europe supposed to be so much more tolerant of "diversity" than the nasty-wasty, backwards USA? Oddly enough, although Europe now has TWO bans on religiously-based clothing, the USA has passed no such "blanket" bans on religiously-based clothing. Makes one wonder...
> ...


Right, I didn't say every country, just Italy and France


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

Its simple if they dont like the new laws they know what they can do........


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## novicimo (Sep 21, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> novicimo said:
> 
> 
> > Finnally a country that has the balls to do whats needed to be done.
> ...


The point is you need to stop being so PC about fighting terrorism, we need to get these fXckers, granted im not particular for banning religeous clothing, But covering the face is a no-no, religous or not. but my point is we need to take a "ends justifies the means" approach to these terrorists. We need to let our goverment play dirty, thats only we are gonna get these guys. we need to assasinate/bribe/extort/make deals for the capture of osama bin laden and we would have that duesche bag by the 6 oclock news. to catch these tunnel rats you have to climb in and get dirty yourself, and worry about what people think later, thats just my point of view because if i was in a smaller scale situation like someone was after me and my family, i wouldnt find him and call the cops of the city hes in to apprehend him, id stab the fXXker in the eye with a rusty screw driver somewhere around 1500 times and stomp his genitals into ground. Anyway before i get off track. Im not applauding the ban of religous clothing, Im applauding the italian goverment for saying everyone isnt allowed to cover there face in airports and places like that and you terrorists arent going to be able to hide behind a mask so we cant find you. I mean how hard would it be for a terrorist to dress up like a muslum women .... they wera a million layers of clothes and a mask around there head (this isnt a shot at muslum women either btw) hell i bet i could pass as one. 
The more we worry about being cool with everyone the further away our targets get from our sights.

Im sure not many people will agree with me because of my hostile approach, but anyone whos idea of a war is hijacking planes and plowing them into a public building, or bombing innocent people to try to prove a point, dont deserve any liberties or rights at all.... im gonna stop there because i dont even want to get into the sillyness people are making a stink about how we treat the prisoners of war, because that situation is just appalling to me.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

novicimo said:


> Judazzz said:
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X2


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

Fido said:


> novicimo said:
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> > Judazzz said:
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x3


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

dan-uk said:


> Its simple if they dont like the new laws they know what they can do........
> [snapback]1140922[/snapback]​


impossible..firstly they are fully fledged citizens and have the same rights as you or me. Secondly not everyone one who wears them are terrorists.

there are plenty of terrorists who wear jeans, should we ban them?


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> dan-uk said:
> 
> 
> > Its simple if they dont like the new laws they know what they can do........
> ...


 I woudnt mind if it was banned to wear jeans as i like track suits myself and besides the material used for jeans makes me itch.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

novicimo said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > novicimo said:
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What on earth makes my post PC about fighting terrorism?







PC seems to be a catch phrase, a conditioned response as soon as people run out of logical arguments, but whatever: if that's what you want to call me, suit yourself...







It says more about you than about me.

I was asking about the purpose of banning such things as a means to fight terrorism - all it instigates is that every Muslim is a (potential) terrorist, if anything that will only work counterproductive. The overwhelming majority of people wearing burqa's have as much to do with Al Qaeda or bombings as you and I.
I too agree that covering your face in public buildings or facilities is not done. That doesn't include walking on the street which a burqa however, as long as it is a decision the woman made by herself, and not something forced upon her by someone else. If it's her choice, why not? It's a free country, and people should be able express themselves culturally or religiously they way they choose to. People that have a problem with that should look at themselves first: they are the ones having a problem with that (paranoia that shuts down any form of reasonable thought, narrow-mindedness, fear of the unknown, whatever reason...), not the people that choose to walk around like that. In a free country you should be able to do that: ban it, and free society ends - simple as that. Because it won't stay at burqa's...

And yes, you're right: people that "plow themselves into buildings with hijacked planes" shouldn't have any form of civil rights. For convenience's sake I'll ignore the fact that those that do are dead, but anyways, I agree with what I think is your point: those that anyone who is proven to be willing to commit atrocities in the name of Islamic extremism should loose their rights.
But burqa's have as much to do with extremism, 9/11 or Al Qaeda as a monk's outfit or a pair of jeans do. And ordinary people, Muslim or non-Muslim, should never pay the price of the War on Terror - it won't bring you an inch closer to Bin Laden (if anything, it's effects are the opposite of what is intended). No one gives a sh*t when the civil rights of Muslims or other minorities are limited, but as soon as it affects them personally, they all start screaming to voice their disgust and anger, and about how wrong those measures are (even though they kept their traps shut when it affected others) - but that form of hypocrisy has become as much a part of Western life as Mercedes, Philips or Burger King.


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## shutter13 (Jun 23, 2004)

im on the fence...... yes because for the most part... terrorists are muslims , but no because not all muslims are terrorists


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## novicimo (Sep 21, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> dan-uk said:
> 
> 
> > Its simple if they dont like the new laws they know what they can do........
> ...


Your missing the actual point im trying to make, the clothes part i left like 4 posts up, im talking about how italy doing that is just one step closer to catching the terrorists than we are. And yes, i think we should ban people from wearing jeans around their head







.
Seriously, all these people wanting to bring these terrorists to justice needs to come back down form the clouds and take a look at whats going on. Although i do give my goverment props, because i could not sit there and watch an american get beheaded on live television without nuking the fuk out of someone. Their whole war style is diffrent, and to win we need fight fire with fire, and im not talking beheading people, but the prisoners we have, we need to get info from them ANY MEANS POSSIBLE,, hold on let me repeat that ANY MEANS POSSIBLE, screw getting more with sugar, we got no info so far, fire off 100 or so rounds from a rifle and lay the tip of that rifle on the prisoners neck and see how quick he tells you were osama is all the way down to the person who feeds his pets.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

GOD BLESS ITALY!!

View attachment 71476


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Scrap5000 said:


> GOD BLESS ITALY!!
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> View attachment 71476
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> [snapback]1141014[/snapback]​


















Love Italy


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

And Italy loves you...


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Scrap5000 said:


> And Italy loves you...
> [snapback]1141023[/snapback]​


It should :laugh: 
Its Half of all the blood in my Body







(Well Sicillian that is )


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## BUBBA (Sep 4, 2003)

MR HARLEY said:


> Scrap5000 said:
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> > GOD BLESS ITALY!!
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The Women are Nice there .
I wish i could Have checked out the Night Life when i was in italy.
there was wall to wall babes when i was in Tivolli
During the Day ...


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## novicimo (Sep 21, 2004)

Jees, i could have saved my self all that writing if i read the whole article..... the italian press said everything i wanted to in one sentence

*"We have before us a grave threat that has to be confronted with all the means of prevention and contrast that we have." *


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

novicimo said:


> Jees, i could have saved my self all that writing if i read the whole article..... the italian press said everything i wanted to in one sentence
> 
> *"We have before us a grave threat that has to be confronted with all the means of prevention and contrast that we have." *
> [snapback]1141053[/snapback]​


And yet you still haven't been able to rationalize HOW banning burqas is going to confront or prevent terrorism in any way shape or form. Did ANY of the september 11th highjackers wear burqas? No. Did any of the July 7th bombers wear burqas? No. Did any of the follow up attackers who attacked London a week later wear burqas? No.

And yet, we have people like yourself who are so scared of terrorism that they will take any possible "solution" so they can sleep at night, no matter how stupid a solution it would happen to be. If someone proposed wearing Holy water because Muslim explosions won't be able to hurt you you'd probably do that too because in truth you are so scared you'll accept anything if it offers a glimmer of hope in fighting those nasty terrorists. It has nothing to do with being "PC", it has to do with some people not being so cowardly as yourself that they let fear overide their ability to think rationally. It has to do with actually considering whether this move will do ANY amount of good whatsoever. It's about actually keeping a rational head on your shoulders and realizing that muslim citizens are citizens just as much rather than being a society of cowards like yourself. People like you who are so easily cowed into accepting anything because a world view that you can comfort yourself into believing that things are going to get safer with simple steps like this is much nicer than that frightening place some of us live in, a place where complex problems demand complex solutions.

But hey, maybe you should leave that to the rest of us and just keep waving a flag in the air screaming the national anthem at the top of your lungs whatever chance you get. That also fights terrorism, honest


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> novicimo said:
> 
> 
> > Jees, i could have saved my self all that writing if i read the whole article..... the italian press said everything i wanted to in one sentence
> ...


Damn, Twitch, why do you fight every single effort to fight terrorism? Are you in cahootz with them or sumthin? Or just too tired to think...Wearing a burkha is bad b/c you could be a known, wanted male terrorist and posing & hiding as a woman by wearing one of those things and get away easily. THAT'S how preventing Burkha wearing helps fight terrorism. And taking their DNA helps to prove who they are as well, if there's a databank of known terrorists' DNA. Does that help you understand?


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> Hold on a second here... Isn't Europe supposed to be so much more tolerant of "diversity" than the nasty-wasty, backwards USA? Oddly enough, although Europe now has TWO bans on religiously-based clothing, the USA has passed no such "blanket" bans on religiously-based clothing. Makes one wonder...
> [snapback]1140889[/snapback]​


The USA sucks the culture out of its people, and replaces it with commercialism. Thats different from banning a peice of clothing!

--Dan


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Jewelz said:
> 
> 
> > Hold on a second here... Isn't Europe supposed to be so much more tolerant of "diversity" than the nasty-wasty, backwards USA? Oddly enough, although Europe now has TWO bans on religiously-based clothing, the USA has passed no such "blanket" bans on religiously-based clothing. Makes one wonder...
> ...


That's neither her nor there. I've seen women with burqas here in the US.. I guess to replace that with commercialism would mean that they would be wearing some kind of a sponsored advertisement on said pieces of clothing ? You know, kinda like NASCAR drivers, with logos of Marlboro and Coca-Cola on the burqas ? Haven't seen that, yet


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> DannyBoy17 said:
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> 
> > Jewelz said:
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Nope, that would be funny though









I meant it in a broader sense.

--Dan


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Jewelz said:
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> 
> > DannyBoy17 said:
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Could you maybe expand on that a bit ? I've ran into people of numerous cultures here in the USA, granted some places are more diverse than others - like New York City is way more of a melting pot than Podunk Mississipi. So what do you mean by commercialization ?


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Damn, Twitch, why do you fight every single effort to fight terrorism? Are you in cahootz with them or sumthin? Or just too tired to think...Wearing a burkha is bad b/c you could be a known, wanted male terrorist and posing & hiding as a woman by wearing one of those things and get away easily. THAT'S how preventing Burkha wearing helps fight terrorism. And taking their DNA helps to prove who they are as well, if there's a databank of known terrorists' DNA. Does that help you understand?
> [snapback]1141110[/snapback]​


Every single effort to fight terrorism? Fighting terrorism is pretty f*cking simple if the numbskull assholes running your country could get it through their heads. All you have to do other than policing is show them terrorism is NOT working, something you guys have failed miserably at. The person who says "f*ck what they do, I'm going to take the tube train tommorow just like I did today, and just like I did yesterday" is doing ten times more to fight terrorists than some of the chickenshits around the world. Don't think for two seconds you guys are making "every single effort to fight terrorism", you guys are furthering the cause of terrorism moreso than any other nation in the entire world.

When they blew up your trade towers did you say "we are americans and we are proud, we won't let their scare tactics work on us"? Did you say "we will refuse to let them impact our way of life"? No, you did none of that. Instead you sent the very clear message to terrorists that you WERE scared, not just scared but terrified of them. The "most free nation in the entire world" suddenly was willing to accept sweeping restrictions on that freedom and privacy under the patriot act, because you guys said "hey, at least we're safe". The most "fair and democratic nation in the world" made Muslims second class citizens by searching them disproportionately and jailing thousands without trial because they "might have been terrorists". You took the principles that supposedly made your country so great and were suddenly willing to trim a little here and there so you could be safe from terrorists. Well guess what the defintion of terrorism is?



> The use of extreme violence or the threat of violence by states, groups or individuals *to generate fear in individuals and thus manipulate their behavior*


So tell me who's "fighting terrorism" again? It was, "making every effort" to be manipulated by terrorists wasn't it?

But hey, who am I to talk, you guys aren't scared and you certainly aren't letting that fear manipulate your behavior. What's the color code for today anyway, "slightly elevated" threat of terrorism?

At least it's not like you guys went to war with a sovereign nation to "fight terrorism" and instead end up producing suicide bombers in response to your occupation of that country. Too bad you can't get us guys "in cahoots with the terrorists" on your side for more bright f*cking ideas like that eh?


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I made this topic to see where people stood within the broader hindsight. I feel Italy made a mistake with the ban of burquas. I wonder what may happen if there is a huge attack somewhere in Europe? With this ban the majority pick up and searches would be women, without a lawyer for 24 hours. This doesn't sound helpful to me. Useless ban on clothes doesn't serve one purpose, although Italy has slight authoritarian tendencies so there is no surprize. Especially our world of today.












novicimo said:


> Your missing the actual point im trying to make, the clothes part i left like 4 posts up, im talking about how italy doing that is just one step closer to catching the terrorists than we are. And yes, i think we should ban people from wearing jeans around their head
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those methods of interrogation are illegal in Italy and US. Intelligence is the best way to fight this conflict. A ban slapped on burgas isn't going to help. If someone wanted to walk down the street with a f*cking bag over their head I don't give a sh*t.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, Twitch, why do you fight every single effort to fight terrorism? Are you in cahootz with them or sumthin? Or just too tired to think...Wearing a burkha is bad b/c you could be a known, wanted male terrorist and posing & hiding as a woman by wearing one of those things and get away easily. THAT'S how preventing Burkha wearing helps fight terrorism. And taking their DNA helps to prove who they are as well, if there's a databank of known terrorists' DNA. Does that help you understand?
> ...


Dude, you don't know a thing about me. I work in NYC. I watched the towers come down on 9/11. And guess what? I rode the subway into work on 9/12, along with lots of other people. So don't tell me about how we ran scared or any other nonsense. We did exactly what you say would work.

Don't you realize that these terrorists are not rational people? They don't sit there and say "Wow, our efforts aren't working, these people have a strong character, let's stop this nonesense and love one another." ?? NO...They sit there and say "we must break and maim and destroy all those who insult Allah...off with the heads of the infidels until none are left!" no matter what, unless you kill or otherwise stop them.

Look at Isreal - bombings there for decades, even tho peeps went about their lives. You are so blind.

There's a difference b/t giving up freedom to make the govt stronger and taking smart steps to fight these guys, but you're so blinded by your liberalism that you'd put everyone at risk. Damn, wake up, kid.


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

ALL we have to do is get one of these islamic terrorists and humiliate him on national T.V that will make the rest of the SUICIDE WORSHIPPERS think twice before killing women and babies for thier suicide belief.


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

The main goal of these suicide worshippers is to make the world into one big suicide cocoon.They want to make it legal to commit suicide and to teach thier children which they see as the importance of self harming.We must eliminate this ideology of depression.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

dan-uk said:


> ALL we have to do is get one of these islamic terrorists and humiliate him on national T.V that will make the rest of the SUICIDE WORSHIPPERS think twice before killin g women and babies for thier suicide belief.
> [snapback]1141262[/snapback]​


We should flush their heads and the Koran at the same time


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Don't you realize that these terrorists are not rational people? They don't sit there and say "Wow, our efforts aren't working, these people have a strong character, let's stop this nonesense and love one another." ?? NO...They sit there and say "we must break and maim and destroy all those who insult Allah...off with the heads of the infidels until none are left!" no matter what, unless you kill or otherwise stop them.
> [snapback]1141247[/snapback]​


Sorry I must have missed something, you're a terrorist and know how they think?

You however did miss something, read the definition again where it's highlighted in bold

"to generate fear in individuals and thus manipulate their behavior"

That isn't "ignore them and they'll go away", that's stop letting them win. Terrorists do not exist to kill all the westerners in the world, that's impossible and everyone knows it. The idea is to instill fear, and disrupt lives. Instill fear such as having a color coded system to remind people they could be killed by terrorists at any moment. How simple and straightforward does it have to be for you to make the connection? Terrorists won nothing when they killed 3,000 people on september 11th, they won huge victories when you ran around like scared little children in the years afterwards, even going so far as to attack Iraq (and produce... tada, yet more terrorists) and cost your country billions of dollars in reconstruction, occupation, and not to mention the severe beating you've taken in world public opinion as a result.

And are you any safer because you attacked Iraq? Considering it's pretty much fact that you've created more millitants as a result of the occupation than there were previously, obviously not.

Are you any safer because you're reminded that terrorists could strike at any moment with a handy "terrorist threat meter"? What do you do on an elevated day, be extra careful about jumping away from explosions in slow motion action movie style whereas other days you simply would have just let yourself explode?

Are these the "smart moves" you're talking about?



Scrap5000 said:


> Look at Isreal - bombings there for decades, even tho peeps went about their lives. You are so blind.
> [snapback]1141247[/snapback]​


Yes look at Israel indeed. When they launched missiles at the millitants, they still came. When they bulldozed millitants houses, they still came. When they blew up millitant leaders from helicopters high in the sky above, they still came. When they imposed a curfew, they still came. When they went so far as to build a giant wall to keep terrorists out, they still came. And after all these years, Israel is doing exactly what the millitants asked for all this time; they're removing the settlers from palestinian territory and going closer to giving them a true palestinian state.

So who's blind now, considering my post had nothing to do with Israel and you don't even understand that situation anyway?



Scrap5000 said:


> but you're so blinded by your liberalism that you'd put everyone at risk. Damn, wake up, kid.
> [snapback]1141247[/snapback]​


No Scrap, you're such a coward that you are putting the entire world at risk. It wasn't people "blinded by liberalism" that produced battle hardened Islamic extremists in Iraq, that was your camp. So don't tell me to "wake up" when you haven't removed your head from the sand long enough to say "is it over yet?". *I* am someone who would rather die for the ideals our enemies would try and take away than give them up, *you* are someone who's shown he has no such desire and would rather surrender those ideals than risk their death for it. Wake up yourself, you've been making the situation worse for almost four years now, don't worry about trying to tell me what to do.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't you realize that these terrorists are not rational people? They don't sit there and say "Wow, our efforts aren't working, these people have a strong character, let's stop this nonesense and love one another." ?? NO...They sit there and say "we must break and maim and destroy all those who insult Allah...off with the heads of the infidels until none are left!" no matter what, unless you kill or otherwise stop them.
> ...


I don't have to be a terrorist to know how they think. They hate Isreal, not going to deny they havea point for the way they get treated by them, had their land confiscated, etc. and hate all who support Isreal. Their goal is to kill until they get what they want, which starts with a homeland and ends with all non muslims dead. Whether or not that is possible is not part of their thinking, for they are obviously not rational, thinking people. Sure, they can think of how to plan killings, but not of whether or not their ultimate goals are truly realizable.

WE CREATED these terrorists? That's the best one I've heard from you yet. If they want to use the fact of us being there as an excuse to become suicide bombers then that's a far stretch from us creating them. That's like saying abortion doctors created abortion clinic bombers. They are reaction-formation psychos, and use any excuse to carry out psychotic acts.

And if they want to come ou of the woodwork then fine, let em come out, and get killed one by one. I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing them all wiped off the face of the earth.

And you call me a coward, huh? You don't see me running across the border to your pacifist country. No, Twitch, I'm sitting in Midtown Manhattan this very second writing this, taking the subway everyday to get here, when I could be taking a bus or driving in, or emigrating to Canada. Knowing there are nut jobs out there just itching to plant a nuke under my *ss doesn't make me run away, so watch your mouth young man.


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## rbp75 (May 2, 2004)

> Every single effort to fight terrorism? Fighting terrorism is pretty f*cking simple if the numbskull assholes running your country could get it through their heads. All you have to do other than policing is show them terrorism is NOT working, something you guys have failed miserably at. The person who says "f*ck what they do, I'm going to take the tube train tommorow just like I did today, and just like I did yesterday" is doing ten times more to fight terrorists than some of the chickenshits around the world. Don't think for two seconds you guys are making "every single effort to fight terrorism", you guys are furthering the cause of terrorism moreso than any other nation in the entire world.


Show them terrorism is not working??? Its to my beliefe we are showing them terrorism is not working, Unlike spain and some other countries we do not put our tails between our legs and run like pussies. when ever an attack happens. We dont give in to the fear of terror, I dont know where the hell you get your facts on the average american. We set out an objective and have stuck with it since day 1. People still fly, people still go into tall buildings. You may not think that is doing anything to fight terrorism but its alot better than sitting around doing nothing hopeing that the next attack will be the last.


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## rbp75 (May 2, 2004)

BtW sticking with the topic I think banning burgas will not stop attack from happening but it will make it alot easier to ID the people who do the attacks, as the london videos have done. The people who do attacks now may not use them but thats not to say they wont in the future. Good move Italy!


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Scrap5000 said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > novicimo said:
> ...


X2


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

rbp75 said:


> > Every single effort to fight terrorism? Fighting terrorism is pretty f*cking simple if the numbskull assholes running your country could get it through their heads. All you have to do other than policing is show them terrorism is NOT working, something you guys have failed miserably at. The person who says "f*ck what they do, I'm going to take the tube train tommorow just like I did today, and just like I did yesterday" is doing ten times more to fight terrorists than some of the chickenshits around the world. Don't think for two seconds you guys are making "every single effort to fight terrorism", you guys are furthering the cause of terrorism moreso than any other nation in the entire world.
> 
> 
> Show them terrorism is not working??? Its to my beliefe we are showing them terrorism is not working, Unlike spain and some other countries we do not put our tails between our legs and run like pussies. when ever an attack happens. We dont give in to the fear of terror, I dont know where the hell you get your facts on the average american. We set out an objective and have stuck with it since day 1. People still fly, people still go into tall buildings. You may not think that is doing anything to fight terrorism but its alot better than sitting around doing nothing hopeing that the next attack will be the last.
> [snapback]1141339[/snapback]​


Seriously. i don't know where you come up with this stuff, Twitch. And you say that Isreal is finally doing what the terrorists asked them to do - to pull out. Like, you actually support negotiating with and giving in to terrorists' demands. That is pathetic and cowardly! And if you give in every time a bomb goes off then where does it end? When they know that everytime they want something they can just light a fuse if someone says no.

Do me a favor...actually, do yourself a favor. Go on some sites like Ogrish.com and see for yourself the videotapes these psychos make of themselves carrying out their acts, and then see if you think they are rational people who can be reasoned with. They are NUTS!!! dude, NUTS!! Friggin stone-age barbaric mentality, bordering human kind, but not quite at that level.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Fido said:


> [snapback]1141090[/snapback]​


Damn, Twitch, why do you fight every single effort to fight terrorism? Are you in cahootz with them or sumthin? [snapback]1141110[/snapback]​[/quote]

X2








[snapback]1141351[/snapback]​[/quote]

What does X2 thmbsdown mean?


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

eltWitcho....... these terrorists are insane its as simple as that.They beleave its right to blow up innocent people just because they are christians or jews and dont follow thier suicide beliefs.Here in the u.k we have radical groups that are aloud to operate around the country preaching thier bu*ls*it of hate.I would love nothing more than to find these extremists in my country and tear them apart with my own hands in the name of "liberation for england" as they are invaders.It just pi**is me off how these people hate our western countrys so much but also want to live here within our peaceful community and act like they are one of us when they are not.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> I don't have to be a terrorist to know how they think. [snapback]1141338[/snapback]​


Ok, so how do you know this information? Which books on Islamic extremists have you read? What classes have you taken that puts you in a position to make that statement? Which lectures have you attended? You're right that you don't have to be a terrorist to know how they think, but it's either that or you've studied them very extensively, which I hadn't expected from you honestly. What are your sources that allowed you to deduce how terrorists are thinking rather than being someone who was simply told "this is how terrorists think" by their government or a newspaper and accepting that conclusion as their own?



Scrap5000 said:


> WE CREATED these terrorists? That's the best one I've heard from you yet. If they want to use the fact of us being there as an excuse to become suicide bombers then that's a far stretch from us creating them. [snapback]1141338[/snapback]​


Sorry to put it bluntly, but you're grossly uninformed. Maybe you should research and know what you're talking about before making conclusions like that, you'll find you come to more logical conclusions as a result.

Here's a nice start for you

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeas...in_iraq?mode=PF



Scrap5000 said:


> And you call me a coward, huh? You don't see me running across the border to your *pacifist country*. No, Twitch, I'm sitting in Midtown Manhattan this very second writing this, taking the subway everyday to get here, when I could be taking a bus or driving in, or emigrating to Canada. Knowing there are nut jobs out there just itching to plant a nuke under my *ss doesn't make me run away, so watch your mouth young man.
> [snapback]1141338[/snapback]​


Again, you're showing a serious lack of understanding and education on the matter if you're reffering to us as a "pacifist country". Canada, like a number of other countries sent troops in with the first wave of international forces to hit afghanistan and fight al quaeda on it's home turf. Luckily for us we did it to actually make a difference and not hope for any recognition from you people because some of you (yourself included) have a tendency to make up history as it suits you and ignore what did happen, like the rest of the world helping you out and offering support.

And taking the subway does not a brave man make. I stand by what I said, every word of it.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Yes look at Israel indeed. When they launched missiles at the millitants, they still came. When they bulldozed millitants houses, they still came. When they blew up millitant leaders from helicopters high in the sky above, they still came. When they imposed a curfew, they still came. When they went so far as to build a giant wall to keep terrorists out, they still came. And after all these years, Israel is doing exactly what the millitants asked for all this time; they're removing the settlers from palestinian territory and going closer to giving them a true palestinian state.
> 
> [snapback]1141318[/snapback]​


A swing and a miss, Twitch. Militants are not asking for a "true palestinian state", militants are asking for complete destruction of the state of Israel and death to all the jews (and americans). Some moderates in the PA may be asking for a true palestinian state, like Abbas but he's hardly a militant. As far as the wall goes, it's not finished yet. And what Sharon is doing by pulling out of Gaza is simply a crime, but Sharon is a fat crook anyway - if you're going to pull the settlers of Gaza, should you also deport all Israeli Arabs to the territories ? No wonder he's got a couple of bribery cases against him. Oh well, whatever keeps Sharon('s pockets) happy..


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Seriously. i don't know where you come up with this stuff, Twitch. And you say that Isreal is finally doing what the terrorists asked them to do - to pull out. Like, you actually support negotiating with and giving in to terrorists' demands. That is pathetic and cowardly!
> [snapback]1141352[/snapback]​


No, you seeing me "support negotiating and giving in to terrorists' demands" is a product of your lack of understanding and inability to grasp the issue. Nowhere did I even hint at such a thing, but that you would see "someone doesn't agree with me... therefore he must support terrorism!!!!" speaks volumes about your understanding on the issue and why you can't come up with any solution that works. I stated the progression of events, a progression of events is not a show of support or lack there of, it is just a statement of the progression of events.



Scrap5000 said:


> Do me a favor...actually, do yourself a favor. Go on some sites like Ogrish.com and see for yourself the videotapes these psychos make of themselves carrying out their acts, and then see if you think they are rational people who can be reasoned with. They are NUTS!!! dude, NUTS!! Friggin stone-age barbaric mentality, bordering human kind, but not quite at that level.
> [snapback]1141352[/snapback]​


I'm familiar with the videos from Iraq, I posted a link to them a long time ago. Notwithstanding, I never said to negotiate with them, or that they were rational people who could be reasoned with, again back to your lack of understanding on complex issues. I said one thing, you misinterpret it and respond to your own version you made up inside your head. Well whatever it is you think I said, I'm sure your response to that is very compelling...



dan-uk said:


> eltWitcho....... these terrorists are insane its as simple as that.They beleave its right to blow up innocent people just because they are christians or jews and dont follow thier suicide beliefs.Here in the u.k we have radical groups that are aloud to operate around the country preaching thier bu*ls*it of hate.I would love nothing more than to find these extremists in my country and tear them apart with my own hands in the name of "liberation for england" as they are invaders.It just pi**is me off how these people hate our western countrys so much but also want to live here within our peaceful community and act like they are one of us when they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you. So what are you getting at?


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously. i don't know where you come up with this stuff, Twitch. And you say that Isreal is finally doing what the terrorists asked them to do - to pull out. Like, you actually support negotiating with and giving in to terrorists' demands. That is pathetic and cowardly!
> ...


Well from your previous posts it sounds like you are siding with the suicide worshippers.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have to be a terrorist to know how they think. [snapback]1141338[/snapback]​
> ...


I live in NYC, you'd be surprised at the stuff you hear come out of "ordinary, peace loving muslims", I know people who have travelled to these parts of the world, I have a friend who's a green beret, I watch plenty of unbiased documentaries on respectable networks, yadda yadda yadda, so yeah, I am pretty well informed about the way they think. Apart from all that, just take a simple look at their actions, for God's sake. Take the veil off from over your eyes, Twitch.

Gonna tell me Canada isn't a pacifist country? I'm talking about the people, not the government. Get real.

And riding the subway does not a brave man make? You should wash your mouth out with soap and apologize to every single person - & their family - who rides the subway to get to work to earn a living, because every single day they are in mortal danger and run the risk of becoming a victim. Shame on you.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Well from your previous posts it sounds like you are siding with the suicide worshippers.








[snapback]1141378[/snapback]​[/quote]

Highlight it. Point out where I sided with them and I will send you a cheque for 50 dollars express posted tonight.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

dan-uk said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Scrap5000 said:
> ...


I don't see that at all. I may not agree with Twitcho on all issues, but he's not a terrorist sympathiser. Just because someone has a different opinion on how to fight terrorism doesn't mean he sides with terrorists


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> dan-uk said:
> 
> 
> > elTwitcho said:
> ...


The way I see it, if you tie the hands of the police by not allowing them to ban people covering their faces, then you are giving the terrorists a hand. And by doing that you are this || close to supporting them. If you give a food & shelter to 500 people, knowing that 1 of them might be a criminal, then that is a criminal act because you are helping him. This is no different.


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

Until canada gets attacked by these suicides twicho will not understand the importance of these anti terror laws being brought forward.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

dan-uk said:


> Until canada gets attacked by these suicides twicho will not understand the importance of these anti terror laws being brought forward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Canada has suffered international terrorist attacks.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Apart from all that, just take a simple look at their actions, for God's sake. Take the veil off from over your eyes, Twitch.
> [snapback]1141383[/snapback]​


I'm not the one trying to explain how terrorists think without being one myself, who's got what veil on again? You can't even differentiate between "stop giving in to what the terrorists want" and "negotiate with terrorists and surrender to them" so don't tell me about not being able to see things properly.

The people not the government are pacifists? Care to explain how that makes any sense at all? None of the politicians I voted for suited up and dropped into afghanistan, last I checked those were actual real live canadian people in those fatigues. And maybe you guys have a different version of democracy I've never heard of, but I thought your country and mine shared the same principal that the government acts within the wishes of the people. I could ask you to explain how the people could possibly be pacifist while the government is not but then you'd just skip over that like you do with any other questions you don't answer so I'll leave it alone.

I take the subway everyday as well, it's really no accomplishment so as emphatically as I can say this through text "big f*cking deal". Riding the subway pales in comparison to bending to terrorists as you support doing


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

dan-uk said:


> Until canada gets attacked by these suicides twicho will not understand the importance of these anti terror laws being brought forward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think there's already been a terrorist act on Canada's soil


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> If you give a food & shelter to 500 people, knowing that 1 of them might be a criminal, then that is a criminal act because you are helping him. This is no different.
> [snapback]1141391[/snapback]​


The United States is home to millions of muslims, very likely one of them is a terrorist. By that logic your government is a state sponsor of terrorism against itself, maybe you guys should declare war on yourselves to oust the pro terrorist government you guys have in office too...



dan-uk said:


> Until canada gets attacked by these suicides twicho will not understand the importance of these anti terror laws being brought forward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


User covered it. One more time, if you aren't informed on something, you should inform yourself before making a conclusion because the quality of your conclusion will be much better than the one you just made. We had alot more people die in our international terrorist attack than you guys have as well, maybe it's you who doesn't understand...


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Apart from all that, just take a simple look at their actions, for God's sake. Take the veil off from over your eyes, Twitch.
> ...


Why do you feel that someone has to be something in order to understand and denounce it? Like, do you feel that a prosecuter has to be a murderer in order to understand a murderer's motives, and is not allowed to pass judgement on one unless he is a murderer too? Your argument is seriosly flawed.

If you ride the subway and don't think it's brave then you must still be in invincible mode - thinking nothing can happen to you. You'll grow up one day.


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

It was only a couple of days ago that a black kid in northern england was cut to pieces with an axe in a racist attack and thats all thanks to these fu*king terrorists.Sinse the bombings in london racial crime in englandl has increased by 500%.If we keep suffering more terror attacks in the u.k multi-culture society in my country will cease to exist not to mention the risk of the far right party b.n.p gaining surport from these bombings.So you can understand why im little angry.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Why do you feel that someone has to be something in order to understand and denounce it? Like, do you feel that a prosecuter has to be a murderer in order to understand a murderer's motives, and is not allowed to pass judgement on one unless he is a murderer too? Your argument is seriosly flawed.
> [snapback]1141410[/snapback]​


Seriously, if you can't respond to what I actually said no offense but I'm not going to continue this. There's no sense in having a debate if someone ignores what you say and fills in the blanks on their own.

Never once did I say you have to be something in order to understand and denounce it. I said you would have to be something to understand what it is like to be that thing, and therefore to understand HOW THEY THINK AND WHAT THEIR MOTIVES ARE. Nor did I hint or imply that you had to be that thing to pass judgement on it.

Honestly it's like I said, and no offense intended but if you're just going to be debating with yourself here and thinking up what answers you expect me to give, and then respond to them, you don't really need me for this discussion and I'm not going to bother with it anymore.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

dan-uk said:


> It was only a couple of days ago that a black kid in northern england was cut to pieces with an axe in a racist attack and thats all thanks to these fu*king terrorists.Sinse the bombings in london racial crime in englandl has increased by 500%.If we keep suffering more terror attacks in the u.k multi-culture society in my country will cease to exist not to mention the risk of the far right party b.n.p gaining surport from these bombings.So you can understand why im little angry.
> [snapback]1141414[/snapback]​


Yes AAAAAAAAAND in trying to preserve a multi-cultural society that you obviously treasure should it not make sense to preach religious tolerance instead of grouping terrorists and muslims as one in the same and forcing them to not wear a burqa?


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## dan-uk (Oct 31, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> dan-uk said:
> 
> 
> > It was only a couple of days ago that a black kid in northern england was cut to pieces with an axe in a racist attack and thats all thanks to these fu*king terrorists.Sinse the bombings in london racial crime in englandl has increased by 500%.If we keep suffering more terror attacks in the u.k multi-culture society in my country will cease to exist not to mention the risk of the far right party b.n.p gaining surport from these bombings.So you can understand why im little angry.
> ...


Why search an 80 year old white women when you know she is not going to be an islamic terrorist,its such a waste of police resources.Like the u.k cops said its.....asian male of betwen 20-40 years of age they will most likely search.Its not being racist its facing fact that 95% of suicde bombers are young asian men.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Why do you feel that someone has to be something in order to understand and denounce it? Like, do you feel that a prosecuter has to be a murderer in order to understand a murderer's motives, and is not allowed to pass judgement on one unless he is a murderer too? Your argument is seriosly flawed.
> 
> *If you ride the subway and don't think it's brave then you must still be in invincible mode - thinking nothing can happen to you. You'll grow up one day.*
> [snapback]1141410[/snapback]​


Riding the sub doesn't insert bravery inside a person. I drive my truck or carpool to work, I have a greater percentage chance of dying than people on the sub.



dan-uk said:


> It was only a couple of days ago that a black kid in northern england was cut to pieces with an axe in a racist attack and thats all thanks to these fu*king terrorists.Sinse the bombings in london racial crime in englandl has increased by 500%. *If we keep suffering more terror attacks in the u.k multi-culture society in my country will cease to exist not to mention the risk of the far right party b.n.p gaining surport from these bombings.So you can understand why im little angry.*
> [snapback]1141414[/snapback]​


It may. Mainly because people have over estimated the threat. I know there is a threat, but there also a threat of an asteroid that would f*ck up the planet if it hit.

I'm glad I left my political party a few months ago.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you feel that someone has to be something in order to understand and denounce it? Like, do you feel that a prosecuter has to be a murderer in order to understand a murderer's motives, and is not allowed to pass judgement on one unless he is a murderer too? Your argument is seriosly flawed.
> ...


Look, you say that preventing burka wearing does not help, and I point out how it does. You say that they are finally giving in to terrorists, and I say that's wrong and amounts to giving in to their demands. I say that these people want all non muslims dead and you say I don't know what's in their heads because I'm not one of them or not informed enough and i point out how I am informed. I'm arguing you point for point, and you say that I'm arguing with myself and not listening to you. Honestly, you make me want to throw my hands up and walk away from this debate as well. Actually, I have to go home, by riding the subway, so it's time to man up, which you say is no big deal. Whatever.


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## aWhITExbOYz (Jun 4, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Scrap5000 said:
> ...


Its going to force the non extreemist muslim community to come down on those who are mis interpreting the koran* It will never happen in America... although its the first place it should happen, Germany has a similar problem.with the muslims not aclimating to the culture properly, a problem similar to the flood of hispanics coming into this country... A lot needs to be done, but it never will... its good to see somebody is stepping up to a Global problem.

*pardon the spelling


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

Long as they don't ban these burgas--> Best burgas


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