# FUZZY WHITE STUFF ON DRIFTWOOD?



## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

I JUST ADDED THE WOOD AND DID THE WHOLE BLEACH PROCEDURE? WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK THIS FUZZY SLIMY STUFF IS THAT SEEMS TO BE EITHER LEACHING OUT OF THE WOOD, OR GROW ON IT? NOT ALGAE IDONT THINK? ANY IDEAS EXPERTS?









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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Can you get any close up pictures of it?


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## wlecount (Jan 22, 2006)

I'm not sure what it is, but I get it on all of my driftwood. If you have a pleco or something they often eat it off, but as is in my tank it's only p's so I just deal with it or scrub it.


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

wlecount said:


> I'm not sure what it is, but I get it on all of my driftwood. If you have a pleco or something they often eat it off, but as is in my tank it's only p's so I just deal with it or scrub it.


COOL. IM NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT! IT LOOKS NATURAL, AND MY WATER QUALITY IS THE SAME, NO BIGGIE I GUESS. JUST WAS CURIOUS TO SEE WHO ELSE HAS THIS STUFF. JUST KINDA WEIRD LOOKING IS ALL. LOL. OH WELL. THANKS-MAN

ICEMAN!


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

It's probably _Saprolegnia_ fungus, which is often an indicator that you are overfeeding.


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> It's probably _Saprolegnia_ fungus, which is often an indicator that you are overfeeding.


OK THANKS MAN ILL RESARCH THIS STUFF OUT AND SEE WHAT IT IS?

THIS IS WHAT I CAME UP WITH....NOT SURE THIS IS WHAT IT IS BUT PRETTY CLOSE TO IT. FROM WHAT I READ ITS IN ALL FRESHWATER, NOT HARMFUL UNLESS FISH ARE STRESSED OUT, ETC. READ BELOW!

*What It Is*

Saprolegnia (or sap) is a freshwater fungus which simply means it lives in fresh water environments and needs water to grow and reproduce. Sap can also be found in brackish water and moist soil. It is often referred to as a "cold water" fungus as it flourishes in colder water, but it lives well in a wide range of water temperatures extending from 37 deg F to 91 deg F (3 to 31 deg C). While it has been described also as a "mold", sap is a genus of fungus, with the difference being a "mold" is a mass of fungi.

The favorite food of sap is dead organic tissue. We can usually see evidence of sap on dead and dying fish, live and dead fish eggs and even food left in the water so long that it has begun to rot. Typically we see infertile koi eggs being infected first with the fungus then it spreads to kill live, fertile eggs. Infected eggs have a typical fluffy cotton wool-like covering. Sap also likes to feast on exposed and decaying tissue caused by bacterial infections, such as ulcers. It is most prevalent on the head and fins of the fish as these are the areas that offer the least amount of natural resistance provided by the mucous coat.

Primary and Secondary Invader

Typically we think of sap as a "secondary" invader. This means that something else has violated the integrity of the fish's skin allowing bacteria to enter and provide direct tissue access for the sap hyphae to embed themselves. In treating sap, it is imperative to treat BOTH the sap and the underlying primary cause. This will be discussed in more detail in the treatment section below.

However, sap can also be a primary invader under the right conditions and this is where it gets the reputation as a "cold water" fungus. We all know that cold water conditions, including dramatic temperature changes, cause great stress on the fish and suppress the fish's natural immune system. As stated above, sap flourishes in colder water by producing and releasing increased zoospore counts into the water. The combination of stress, suppressed immune systems, and increased spore counts give sap the ability to cause major problems in colder water. Sap infections are commonly the cause of "winter kill."

The following is a list of conditions that support the spread of sap:

Overcrowding - stress and too many organics in too little water

Handling - stress and removal of the mucous coat on the fish

Epidermal integrity - open wounds that provide direct access to tissue

Parasites and pathogens - parasites cause wounds that allow pathogens (like bacteria) to enter the tissue thus giving sap a change to take hold and stress

Pollution - stress and reduced water quality

Spawning - stress and physical damage

Water quality - stress and reduced physiological conditions

Water temperature changes - stress.

Obviously the underlying theme in the above list is "stress" and this is the one thing that we need to guard against first and foremost to keep our fish healthy. In healthy conditions, our fish have some natural protection against sap with the mucous layer being the most effective first line of defense. The mucous layer provides the ability to reject a sap attack by sloughing off a layer of mucous and sending the sap with it. The mucous coat also provides a natural fungicide at the cell-level. So you can see that improper handling or any activity that reduces the mucous coat offers an increased opportunity for sap to take hold.

Death by SAP

An increased morbidity of fish caused by sap can be traced to three major things:

Low water temperatures

High concentrations of sap zoospores

Mechanical stress

We know that sap attacks fish weakened by any of the above and the suppressed nature of the immune system under cold water or high stress conditions leaves the fish mostly defenseless. However, what kills the fish in a sap attack is a condition known as hemodilution. By definition, hemodilution is "a decreased concentration (as after hemorrhage) of cells and solids in the blood resulting from gain of fluid from the tissues." &#8230; this causes the blood to loose electrolytes (blood salts) and make it less than life-supporting. Then as the sap hyphae penetrate the tissue layers of the skin, water begins to enter the fish thereby further diluting the fish's blood salts. This explains why fish grossly affected by sap appear lethargic and often lose their equilibrium.

Once it has (literally!) taken root, sap can spread rapidly over the surface tissue of the fish. While it is rare that sap will penetrate deep into tissue layers, even superficial damage to the fish's initial tissue layers (and particularly the gills) can be deadly. Obviously, the more wide-spread the sap infection becomes, the higher the rate of hemodilution and greater chance that the fish will not recover. Therefore, managing the sap infection quickly becomes the key to saving the fish.

Protection and Treatment

Obviously, the best "cure" for sap is prevention. As mentioned, sap is present in every pond and has its place in the order of life in the pond's ecology. It really only becomes a problem when something has gone wrong with the fish and/or the pond or a condition such as cold water suppresses the fish's immune system. Some of the steps we can take to reduce sap's effectiveness include:

Providing a stress-free environment (which starts with excellent water quality)

The active reduction of organics in the pond (good mechanical filtration and a balanced ecology). This also will reduce natural aeromonas bacteria counts

The quick removal of dead and dying fish and excess food

Proper handling (which starts with as little handling as possible)

Elimination of parasites

Increased water flow during warmer conditions

But no matter how hard we try, and especially for those ponds located in areas subject to cold water situations and/or rapid water temperature changes, sap is always a possibility. Except as noted above, there are no reasonable preventive measures, including the use of anti-fungal products as they just do not work effectively against sap. Therefore, we must be prepared to diagnose and treat sap as soon as we see it and here are some treatment recommendations:

Malachite Green (MG): Hands down, this is the best treatment for all fungal problems, including sap. MG baths and dips work_ exceptionally well and one treatment will usually solve the problem (assuming any contributing causes are corrected as well). There are certain cautions that go with using MG, such as use only in cooler, well aerated water, so read the label carefully for instructions and precautions. MG is not recommended as a pond-wide treatment for sap as the concentration levels needed to kill off sap are too high for a pond-wide treatment to be effective. Such products as ProForm C, a Malachite Green-formalin combination can help reduce the incidence of sap and parasites in the water, but because the sap hyphae may be deeply embedded, the stronger dip or bath method is recommended. Caution: Malachite green is carcinogenic and has been banned for use on food fish. Use MG with great care.

Salt: This is a distant "second best" treatment to MG. Salt in the 0.6 to 1.0% range for 30 minutes or less can help eliminate sap. The caution with this approach is that the higher the salt level, the more stress the fish will endure so check carefully on the stability of your fish prior to performing a high-level salt bath.

Formalin: Formalin is mentioned as a treatment for sap however, generally speaking, formalin is ineffective against most molds and fungi. Like MG and salt, formalin comes with its own precautions, including limiting its use in warm water, where low oxygen situations may develop. Handle formalin with care, its toxicity is well known. Diluted versions of formalin products, such ProForm C offer a nice one-two punch where MG takes out the sap and formalin gets the parasites. It is not recommended to use formalin against open wounds because of the harmful effect of formalin on exposed tissue and cell structures.

Potassium Permanganate: In the right hands, PP is one of the better treatments for sap. PP treatments at 4PPM (4g/1000 litres) will eliminate most of the sap but for deeply embedded sap hyphae, further surface treatments using a PP paste may be required. The down side of PP, of course, is the inherent danger of using it at all. It is not recommended for those inexperienced with its use.

Treating a sap-affected fish requires that the wound site be tended completely. As mentioned, sap is generally a secondary invader; this means something else went wrong to allow the sap to take hold, like a parasite attack or another wound that opened the tissue. So, when treating a sap-affected fish, first eliminate the sap from the surface of the fish and then treat the actual wound site, which is most likely starting to look like an ulcer. For the latter, Tri-Cide Neo, iodine, PP paste and/or Debride topical ointment are good choices. Depending on the extent of the underlying wound, injectable medications may be required and the assistance of a veterinarian sought. If you suspect that cold water has allowed sap to become a primary invader, attention to the surface tissue of the affected fish is still required as the sap hyphae penetrates the tissue and can allow bacteria to enter the wound site.

Much has been said regarding the importance of using a microscope in the koi hobby. A microscope with a range up to 400x (eg 40X objective and 10X eyepiece) is an invaluable tool for diagnosing problems with our fish as well as viewing almost the entire spectrum of the ecology of our ponds from algae to parasites to the larvae of insects. At 200x, the filament structure of sap is easily to see and at 400x, the hyphae and spherical ends of sap are clearly discernible. Also, at 200x the movement of most parasites can be easily seen and at 400x, virtually all of the parasites that routinely inhabit our ponds can be detected and identified.

As you can see, sap is one of the major potential problems that we have to be prepared to deal with. Since sap is always present in our ponds, it is imperative to take as many preventative measures as possible to keep it from affecting the fish. But even the best pond keepers will eventually get a sap outbreak and when this happens, treatment must be quick and complete as this is not a problem that will just go away all by itself.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I didn't read all of it, just the top half. It mentions that it feeds on stuff that is rotting. Does that mean that his driftwood could be rotting in the tank?


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

taylorhedrich said:


> I didn't read all of it, just the top half. It mentions that it feeds on stuff that is rotting. Does that mean that his driftwood could be rotting in the tank?


NAW MAN ITS NOT FROM THE WOOD ROTTING. IT COULD BE ALOT OF THINGS, ILL LET YOU KNOW IN A FEW DAYS. ILL LET YOU KNOW EXACTLY ONCE I CLEAR IT OUT AND KEEP IT OUT, ITS A TYPE OF NATURAL FUNGUS. I WILL HOOK UP MY UV LIGHT TONIGHT AND WATCH IT RECTIFY THE STUFF REALL QUICK, LOL.

ICEMAN!


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Hey, Iceman, when you include something like that in a thread, it's always a good idea to cite your source. Also, I don't know that _Saprolegnia_ can ever be completely eradicated, but it's a better idea to deal with the root cause of it making itself manifested (overfeeding, most often than to try to deal with the symptom (the fungus itself).


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> Hey, Iceman, when you include something like that in a thread, it's always a good idea to cite your source. Also, I don't know that _Saprolegnia_ can ever be completely eradicated, but it's a better idea to deal with the root cause of it making itself manifested (overfeeding, most often than to try to deal with the symptom (the fungus itself).


OKKK! WELL I ONLY FEED 2 TIMES A DAY AND HALF OF A FROZEN CUBE OF BLOODWORMS AT THAT. SO 1 CUBE A DAY. BESIDES THIS STUFF JUST APPEARD THE OTHER DAY, MY FEEDING HAS BEEN THE SAME BEFORE THEN. I KNOW IT CANNOT BE ENTIRELY ERRADICATED B/C IT IS SIMI NATUAL IN FRESHWATER, HOWEVER IT CAN BE TREATED. AS FAR AS A SOURCE I GOT THAT INFO FROM....."http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=256&name=Newest+Articles" YOU CAN CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF. I TAKE IT YOU HAVE HAD THIS BEFORE OR STILL DO. THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS THO. I WILL POST ONCE I FIGURE OUT WHATCAUSED THIS AND HOW I GOT RID OF IT OR REDUCED IT. THANKS

ICEMAN!


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## Trystan (Jan 2, 2006)

I had it on some of my drift a couple months ago. I just scraped it off and it went away in a week. Haven't seen it since.

Trystan


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

trystan said:


> I had it on some of my drift a couple months ago. I just scraped it off and it went away in a week. Haven't seen it since.
> 
> Trystan


YEA I'VE FIGURED OUT THAT ITS HARMLESS. I REMEBRED THAT I SAW IT A FEW DAYS BEFORE I DID MY CHANGE OVER WITH THE NEW WOOD AND SAND. IT WAS ON MY CO 2 BUBBILIZER IN A LITTLE WHITE PATCH. SO I KNOW ITS NOT FROM MY WOOD OR SAND...PHEW....BUT ILL JUST KEEP SCAPIN IT OFF AND INSTALL MY UV SYSTEM, AND DO A WATER CHANGE FRIDAY WITH A LITTLE CLEANING ROUTINE. THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS!

ICEMAN!


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## kirch24 (Apr 14, 2006)

do you have sand, i know it has something to do with sand and i have evidance, first i added sand to my ten gallon to test it first and the cement background got fuzzy white stuff all over it, then i put sand in my 55, there was white stuff on the sand , if you just set up your tank(i am assuming) then let it cyclye for a while and clean the stuff of, youll get rid of it, good luck!


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I think it has something to do with your sand that was used, not necessarily sand in general.


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> I think it has something to do with your sand that was used, not necessarily sand in general.


NO I DONT THINK SO. LIKE I SAID IT STARTED BEFORE I MADE THE SAND DRIFTWOOD CHANGE! BUT IM WIPPING ALL MY WOOD DOWN TONIGHT, EVER TIME I SEE IT, AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOME OTHER STUFF, ILL POST UPDATES LATER. THANKS THO BRO.

ICEMAN!


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

THAT WAS ACTUALLY A REPLY TO THE POST BEFORE YOURS.


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## ICEMAN330824 (May 30, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> THAT WAS ACTUALLY A REPLY TO THE POST BEFORE YOURS.


OK, I SEE.


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