# Article: Sump Basics



## Hareball

*Sump Basics*

Sumps can be rather overwhelming when you open the box and see all the diffrent parts. I scratched my head for hours before taking everything over to B.Scott and had him hook things up on his tank just to show me how everything works so I hope this info helps people with setting up one of thier own. I believe a sump type filtration is second to none and requires very low maintenance. Both my Amiracle sumps have been going about 3-4 years now and I could not be happier.

*Hang On Overflow*

The hang on overflow is about the only option for a tank that is not drilled. Parts consist of a skimmer box that goes in the tank, a U tube that carries the water into your prefilter which on one side collects water and dumps the water into the other side where usually there is a coarse sponge that collects heavy debris. From there the water is carried down a hose to your sump.



















*Priming your Overflow*

To get your prefilter started simply take a section of airline tubing, take your U tube out and stick the airline tube into the U tube and get it right to the top then put the U tube back into place. Be sure to have water both in the skimmer box and in your prefilter. Then take the end of the air line and suck the air out of your U tube and the water will begin to flow.
When doing water changes you need not have to worry about losing your prime, it will restart on it's own once water re-enters your skimmer box. (I learned this the hard way during my first water change. came within an inch of overflowing my sump.)

*The Sump*

Parts include, an elbow and O rings, a drip plate, bio balls, egg crate and a sponge. 
The water coming from your prefilter collects in the drip plate and evenly distributes water over the bio balls in a trickle type manner. this allows oxygen to feed the bacteria that is grown on the bio balls making this a truly great filter but be warned they can produce alot of nitrates and good sized water changes should be done weekly. The block sponge can be cleaned once a month depending on debris. The bio balls are never to be touched and the drip plate also requires little to no maintenance, I have never had to do a thing with mine but if needed a toothpick can easily clean out any clogged holes.





































*The Pump*

Depending on the output of your prefilter and the size of your sump you will need to choose a pump. On my 125g S.geryi tank I have a mag drive submersable 650 gph pump. this tank has a single prefilter and no ball valve is needed. this pump has been running 3+ years now with 0 maintenance.
On my 265g C.temensis tank I have a double prefilter. This is connected to a larger sump so I chose a little giant 1200 gph pump. The pump on this sump is external so the bulkhead is used. I chose not to harline the area between the bulkhead and pump to allow some movement. I used a section of hose and started the system for a test, at first I had to much water entering the sump and not enough leaving. solution: I cut the hose down until things ran perfect, again no ball valve was needed to control the rate of flow.
When doing the plumbing from your pump to the tank you can either hard line the entire thing or go with hose. Being I was new to sumps at that time I chose the simple method and used hose. 
The mag drive was simple, the hose fit right to the pump but on the little giant you need to start off with hard line parts to come out of the pump. I had to downsize a few times until I got to the size of the hose I used.










*Return*

The return can vary greatly. you can make your own with plumbing parts or buy one at your LFS. You can hook a valve up to the end, you can attach a spray bar or you can just let it run wide open across the surface for optimum surface aggitation.
It's very important to drill a small hole just about even with the running height of water in your tank. All you need to do is get everything running and see where the water line ends up on the return then just drill a small hole there. this will prevent water from back syphoning into your sump in the event of a power failure or routine maintenance.


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## DonH

Good post Bob! The pics really help. I'm going to pin this since there's so many questions regarding wet/dry filters.


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## Hareball

thank you don


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## Black-Phoenix

very nice!


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## Lyle

How do you like that little giant pump? That is the exact one I'm considering. How loud (or quiet) is it? The other 2 I've been looking at are Iwaki and Quiet One. Any thoughts on either of these? Thanks!

Also, on the 265. How large is your return line? I was doing some research which suggested that 1" is too small for 1200gph because it will cause a very strong current. Did you use 1" or 1 1/2"? I am thinking of building a 240, so your experiences and insights here will be very applicable to what I'm doing...I was thinking of using 1" and then making some sort of nozzle to split the current up: part would go across the top to provide surface agitation and part of it would be angled downward for fishy enjoyment.

I was planning on building in 2 pre-filters, each going into its own sponge and bio-ball area and into a joint sump, then out with a 1200 gph pump with one return to provide current from one direction in the tank. Does this seem reasonable? What size do you feel the overflows should be (they will be in the corners)? I was thinking 6"x6" and have them stop 2" from the top of the tank. What do you think about that? I know it will give me enough room at the bottom of the tank to insert the pvc bulkheads (there will be 2 on one pre-filter, one on the other), I'm just concerned about the flow rate over the top of it...

I'm sure I'll have more questions for you...thanks so much!!!

Lyle


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## Xenon

awesome job hareball!


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## Hareball

Lyle said:


> How do you like that little giant pump? That is the exact one I'm considering. How loud (or quiet) is it? The other 2 I've been looking at are Iwaki and Quiet One. Any thoughts on either of these? Thanks!
> THE LITTLE GIANT IS A WORK HORSE. KINDA LOUD BUT TROUBLE FREE FOR YEARS NOW. IWAKI i HAVE NEVER USED BUT HEAR THEY ARE ABOUT THE BEST, i HAVE NEVER HEARD OF QUIET ONE. i THINK YOU WILL FIND JUST ABOUT ANY EXTERNAL PUMP A BIT ON THE NOISY SIDE THOUGH. i HAVE A 1200GPH MAG DRIVE ON MY 125G SALT TANK. IT'S SUBMERSABLE AND RUNNING 6 MONTHS NOW, AGAIN NO PROBLEMS AND YOU CAN'T HEAR IT RUN!
> 
> Also, on the 265. How large is your return line? MY RETURN IS 1 1/2"
> I was doing some research which suggested that 1" is too small for 1200gph because it will cause a very strong current. Did you use 1" or 1 1/2"? I am thinking of building a 240, so your experiences and insights here will be very applicable to what I'm doing...I was thinking of using 1" and then making some sort of nozzle to split the current up: part would go across the top to provide surface agitation and part of it would be angled downward for fishy enjoyment.
> THAT SHOULD WORK OUT JUST FINE. i WOULD "t" IT JUST ARTER THE PUMP.
> 
> I was planning on building in 2 pre-filters, each going into its own sponge and bio-ball area and into a joint sump, then out with a 1200 gph pump with one return to provide current from one direction in the tank. Does this seem reasonable?
> YES, THATS HOW MY 265G IS SET UP. THE FLOW IS PRETTY STRONG BUT THE TANK IS STOCKED WITH BIG PEACOCK BASS SO THEY CAN'T BE TOSSED AROUND.
> What size do you feel the overflows should be (they will be in the corners)? I was thinking 6"x6" and have them stop 2" from the top of the tank. What do you think about that?
> i WOULD CHECK OUT SOME SPECS ON TANKS WITH CORNER OVERFLOWS TO SEE WHAT IS ALREADY TESTED AND PROVEN. MY 125G SALT TANK IS DOUBLE CORNER OVERFLOW BUT i HAVE NO RULER TO MEASURE.
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> I know it will give me enough room at the bottom of the tank to insert the pvc bulkheads (there will be 2 on one pre-filter, one on the other), I'm just concerned about the flow rate over the top of it...IF YOUR GOING WITH DOUBLE OVERFLOW i WOULD ALSO GO WITH 2 RETURNS TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN BALANCE. YOU CAN EITHER DRILL ONE HOLE IN EACH CORNER FOR THE SUMP OR YOU CAN DRILL 2 HOLES IN EACH CORNER AND PLUMB IN YOUR RETURN TO KEEP THINGS MORE STREAMLINE. YOU CAN EOTHER ORDER ONLINE OR FROM A LFS AN OVERFLOW KIT FOR THE RIGHT PARTS.
> 
> I'm sure I'll have more questions for you...thanks so much!!!
> GLAD TO HELP :smile:
> 
> Lyle


 answers in caps









thanks mike


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## Lyle

That's a great idea to look at already constructed tanks for specs on the overflows. Why didn't I think of that?


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## rbP NUT

i got this old wet dry for free from the lfs, so i cant complain, just not sure what pump to use for it, its going on my 90g and its 20"x14.5"x19.5"? all the stuff you see in the sump area is the bits and pieces except the hoses? what do you think?

paul


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## Hareball

looks pretty good! for a pump I would suggest a mag drive around 650gph. 
as for hoses I would go back to the lfs and get the supplies. 
if it's possible please take some shots of the part inside the sump so we can make sure you have everything. also on the sump is there a bulkhead or is it solid? I think I see a bulkhead but could just be some extra plumbing.


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## rbP NUT

over flow and outlet


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## rbP NUT

empty but dirty, it was a REALLY old sales demo but was never actually used


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## rbP NUT

im thinking about going with the EHEIM 1048 600lph, i get them cheap.


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## rbP NUT

oh yeah from the overflow it is 1 1/4" but the intake on the sump to the drip tray is 1", shall i get a reducer to 1"?
thanks for all the help by the way


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## Hareball

good pump choice. I have never used one but have heard nothing bad.

your gonna have to close off those open bulkheads. I would measure the 2 holes and order new bulkhead kits from your lfs and plug them.

thats odd that the two ends don't match up. but I would also reduce it like you mentioned.
looks like a great sump. you will be very happy.


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## rbP NUT

yeah it was an overflow they used to sell seperately, its got a built in primer when i get this thing up and running il update you, but one more Q, why new bulk heads? what type of bulk head do i need and do i just plug the other with silicone and a stop?
cheers


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## Dr. Giggles

How would the pre filter be installed if the tank is an acrylic and there is no overhang. Clarity Plus has the top enclosed with feeder cutouts in the middle.


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## Hareball

rbP NUT said:


> why new bulk heads? what type of bulk head do i need and do i just plug the other with silicone and a stop?
> cheers


 it's cheap insurance to insure the bulkhead won't leak.
you will plug it and seal it "glue".


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## Hareball

jerry_plakyda said:


> How would the pre filter be installed if the tank is an acrylic and there is no overhang.


 you would need to drill the tank. or cut in a slot on the top.


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## rbP NUT

THANKS HAREBALL


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## Hareball

rbP NUT said:


> THANKS HAREBALL


 anytime :nod:


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## Dr. Giggles

Instead of drilling a hole to prevent water back siphoning into the sump can a one way valve be installed.


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## Hareball

I don't know anything about them. as long as it prevents water from going back to the sump then sure.

you could also do harline plumbing and use a "pet c*ck" type valve keeping it an inch or so above the water line.


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## nitrofish

I wanted to show a couple pics of my wet/sry filter to show some off the difference from mine to hareballs setup. same basic idea but different parts used. I have not run it yet, but here are some pictures anyhow.

ps. wet dry complete kit with pump was purched from ebay.com

this is a top view, in this pic you can see the submersible pump (rio 3100) and submersible titanium heater. the clear hose is the water return hose to the tank, the other hoses are the input to the filter (dual input,single output)


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## nitrofish

here you can see the filter open showing the bioballs. they are sitting on a plastic grate.


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## nitrofish

on top of the bioballs is a drip plate, this spreads the water all over


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## nitrofish

here is the prefilter pad, this catches the large waste


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## nitrofish

then the lid goes on, this has the hoses conected to the overflow


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## nitrofish

side view of the different layers


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## nitrofish

ok, heres the overflow inside the tank, its slotted and allows water to flow from the tank to the u tubes to the filter


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## nitrofish

side view


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## nitrofish

back of the overflow you can see the u tubes the other tubes have a prefilter pad around them . water flows fro the u tubes to the other tubes and out the bottom to the filter. please feel free to make any comments, this is my first wet/dry, so this is kinda new for me.


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## Hareball

sweet setup nitro


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## nitrofish

Hareball said:


> sweet setup nitro


 thanks









by the way, I have no return in the tank yet, just the hose. should I make a spraybar or something, or just a sprayer thingy like you have. does it have to be submerged? can it be just a simple pvc elbow in the water?


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## Hareball

nitrofish said:


> Hareball said:
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> sweet setup nitro
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> by the way, I have no return in the tank yet, just the hose. should I make a spraybar or something, or just a sprayer thingy like you have. does it have to be submerged? can it be just a simple pvc elbow in the water?
Click to expand...

 i'm not crazy about spray bars and like the power an open line into the tank.

making your own return out of pvc is good. I just set up a few salt tanks at work that way.

out of the water is ok as long as you don't have to much splash or noise.


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## rbP NUT

nitro is there a drip tray on the wet dry?


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## rbP NUT

sorry nitro, just saw it, its black with floss covering it right? should i put some floss on my drip tray?


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## Hareball

floss can be used on a drip tray. I removed mine for better flow


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## rbP NUT

Hareball said:


> floss can be used on a drip tray. I removed mine for better flow


 thats what i was thinking


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## nitrofish

rbP NUT said:


> sorry nitro, just saw it, its black with floss covering it right? should i put some floss on my drip tray?


 theres a white pad in the drip tray


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## Hareball

nitrofish said:


> rbP NUT said:
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> sorry nitro, just saw it, its black with floss covering it right? should i put some floss on my drip tray?
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> theres a white pad in the drip tray
Click to expand...

 I give it 3 months and you will throw it out :rasp: or you can do like I did and cut it into squares about 6"x6" and use them to clean glass :laugh:


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## rbP NUT

Hareball said:


> nitrofish said:
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> rbP NUT said:
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> sorry nitro, just saw it, its black with floss covering it right? should i put some floss on my drip tray?
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> theres a white pad in the drip tray
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> Click to expand...
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> I give it 3 months and you will throw it out :rasp: or you can do like I did and cut it into squares about 6"x6" and use them to clean glass :laugh:
Click to expand...

 good move.lol


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## Death in #'s

Hareball said:


> nitrofish said:
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> rbP NUT said:
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> sorry nitro, just saw it, its black with floss covering it right? should i put some floss on my drip tray?
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> theres a white pad in the drip tray
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> Click to expand...
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> I give it 3 months and you will throw it out :rasp: or you can do like I did and cut it into squares about 6"x6" and use them to clean glass :laugh:
Click to expand...









thats a good use for those pads


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## nitrofish

Hareball said:


> nitrofish said:
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> rbP NUT said:
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> sorry nitro, just saw it, its black with floss covering it right? should i put some floss on my drip tray?
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> theres a white pad in the drip tray
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> Click to expand...
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> I give it 3 months and you will throw it out :rasp: or you can do like I did and cut it into squares about 6"x6" and use them to clean glass :laugh:
Click to expand...

 that bad huh







oh well, ill get it nice and dirty before I toss it out


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## ViBE

I would like to thank all the people who made this guide. Very very useful, and it answered a lot of questions for me.


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## nitrofish

well I ran into 1 problem running the wet/dry for the first time, the overflow can't keep up with the pump, so the pump sucks all the water out of the sump.

solution:
buy a bigger overflow
or
slow down the pump output with a ball valve

also a slight leak in the pvc return

heres my home made return , its very simple


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## nitrofish

back view

it goes from clear hose from the pump to the pvc parts I made. ill rebuild it tomarrow, and try to make it a little better and out of 3/4" pipe intead of 1/2"


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## Hareball

looks good!
a ball valve is always good insurance :nod:


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## nitrofish

well I re-built the return with the valve, seems to be maintaining the same level now all day.but it dosen't seem to have much presure in the return. is this normal?


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## nitrofish

one side is getting a little more flow than the other, it dosen't seem like its flowing enough water. what do you think?


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## nitrofish

I think I figured out my flow problem. I lowered the overflow so that only 1/4" is above the surface. this has increaced the amount of water entering the overflow box making it so I can turn up the return valve.

when the pump is shut off the water will comtinue to flow into the sump, but will stop at 3/4 full. when I turn it back on water returns to its normal level.

as for the water flowing more on one side, thats because one tube on the back of the overflow is longer than the other. for a temporary fix I put a shim under the overflow.


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## nitrofish

heres another shot of the new return pipe with the clear hose from the pump conected. no leaks this time. I also put the piolt hole on my return like hareball did, and it works great


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## Hareball

good work nitro :nod:

glad you were able to troubleshoot that problem and fix it!!


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## nitrofish

Hareball said:


> good work nitro :nod:
> 
> glad you were able to troubleshoot that problem and fix it!!


 as long as others can learn from my problems and soloutions its all good. I also had a problem with the overflow not flowing enough and bubbles in the u-tubes, but I figured it out, I trimed the drain tube in the rear of the overflow 1/2"(it was also cut on a slant, so I cut it strait) and it has seriously increaced the flow, now im able to turn the return valve all the way up and all the bubles get sucked right thru the u-tubes.

hopefully thats the last of my problem getting this setup. thanks for everyone tips, especially hareball, youve been extremly helpfull.


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## Hareball

glad to help nitro :smile:

now that it is set up you won't have to do much but unplug it during water canges and clean the prefilter sponges depending on feeding and waste.


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## nitrofish

heres an updated picture of the sump with protien skimmer, the water level drops down just below the bioballs when running . it isn't running yet, I need some better lighting and live rock first. also ill be upgradeing the bioballs with base rock instead.


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## nitrofish

the white pipes on the skimmer where made to cut down the sound of the water returning to the sump


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