# Please Help! Death This Morning! What's Wrong?



## Spudnik (May 29, 2010)

Hi,
I have set up a red-belly tank for work. We started with 10 young piranhas (1 inch) which have all grown fast and looked healthy. Just over a week ago, one of the piranhas was demolished overnight, only the skull left in the morning and this morning we had a different death. 
They have been acting differently for a couple of days, all hiding together in a dark corner and not eating at meal times. One of my colleagues phoned me this morning to tell me that one piranha was swimming on its side and occasionally flipping upsidedown. It had died by the time I came in to work. Close inspection of the remaining fish shows that there is something on their skin, it almost looks like they're peeling (just like human skin after being sun-burnt). Could this be a slime-fungus thing?
Since the murder of the first fish, there have also been lots of little white worms all over the tank. Have these come out of the piranha?
Over the weekend, when I was away, another colleague drastically overfed them (I have been trying to net out all the rotton food).
Water parameters as follows;

Yesterday - prior to a 15% water change.
PH - 5.5-6
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 15
Nitrite - 0.3

This morning;
PH - 6
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - <5
Nitrite - 0.1

Tank is 6 foot long and 537 litres in volume.

Please help, I don't want to lose any more.








Any help and advice gratefully recieved.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Where's the experts when ya need em? What's your water change schedule? & what's being fed?how big are the fish now? I would do a water change & siphon the gravel good & remove all food. rinse the filter media in tank water if its dirty. & dose the tank with Pimafix & melafix both. The worms are harmless & comes from poor tank maintenance/& overfeeding. I'd cut back on feeding also.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BRUNER247 said:


> *Where's the experts when ya need em?* What's your water change schedule? & what's being fed?how big are the fish now? I would do a water change & siphon the gravel good & remove all food. rinse the filter media in tank water if its dirty. & dose the tank with Pimafix & melafix both. The worms are harmless & comes from poor tank maintenance/& overfeeding. I'd cut back on feeding also.


we around...Get tired of the childish comments though.......


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

Sounds like to many ppl are involved with the tank. Only have yourself responsible for cleaning, feeding and tank maintanance. That way you know exactly what is going on. Weekly 50% water changes with gravel vacuuming to start and only feed once per day and only what they can eat. Then clean up anything that is sitting on the substrate. Clean water conditions should clear up any disease in the tank. I would also dose with aquarium salt and keep your water temp at about 76-78.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

AKSkirmish said:


> *Where's the experts when ya need em?* What's your water change schedule? & what's being fed?how big are the fish now? I would do a water change & siphon the gravel good & remove all food. rinse the filter media in tank water if its dirty. & dose the tank with Pimafix & melafix both. The worms are harmless & comes from poor tank maintenance/& overfeeding. I'd cut back on feeding also.


we around...Get tired of the childish comments though.......








[/quote]
But yet you still gave zero advice. Not one reply since 630am.don't like what I gotta say block my posts or get over it!


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

BRUNER247 said:


> *Where's the experts when ya need em?* What's your water change schedule? & what's being fed?how big are the fish now? I would do a water change & siphon the gravel good & remove all food. rinse the filter media in tank water if its dirty. & dose the tank with Pimafix & melafix both. The worms are harmless & comes from poor tank maintenance/& overfeeding. I'd cut back on feeding also.


we around...Get tired of the childish comments though.......








[/quote]
But yet you still gave zero advice. Not one reply since 630am.don't like what I gotta say block my posts or get over it!
[/quote]

You asked a ?-I answered

Get off your high horse man....I have many reasons why I dont participate in the hobby forums.......My fish and tanks speaks volumes on the kinda care I give and info I could provide......But since dealing with people like yourself and many more on this site-I choose to keep my info to myself......

It's the comments you make that keep us pushed back and not even want to engage in conversation......

Anyhow I'm done with this thread and will not reply........


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

What a joke! You need a plug? I never once questioned your tanks or fish. If your so damn good why aren't you helping this guy instead of ruining his thread with your trash? If your not gonna help him why even reply? Maybe you need to get off your high horse oh great one & help this fellow member. I've helped anyone & everyone that's needed it. Where you helping people? Go on back to your chicks loony thread where you obviously belong since you aren't coming off of some of your great knowledge.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

come on guys do we have to argue...









scale peeling huh? sounds like ammonia burn. I would scan the whole tank for uneaten food and do 25% water change daily with some aquarium salt followed


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## Spudnik (May 29, 2010)

Wow, ahem, I feel like I've got involved in a bit of piranha-fury politics!









Ok,
Yes, correct, there are a few people looking after this tank as it's a display tank at work. I have the overall responsibility for it and have formed a small team of enthusiatic amateurs who I'm training in tank maintenance but, as newbies will, there is overfeeding when I'm not working that day. I'd love to have sole responsibility for the tank but it's not practical as we do shift work and I'm not always working the same days. I have rotas up on the wall for filter cleans and feeding times (so they don't get 10 feeds a day) but I suspect other colleagues, not on the team, are also putting food in, just to see them feed.








Increasingly angry/begging/frustrated comments have been written on the staff notice-board!

So, in answer to the questions....
1) Water changes once a week - between 15% and a third.
2) Feeding mostly on dry foods like floating cichlid pellets and sticks (which they love) and meaty foods once or twice a week like brine shrimp, blood worm, krill, prawns, small frozen (and then defrosted) fish.
3) Size of fish at the moment is between 3-4 inches

I did a thorough gravel clean yesterday and cleaned 2 of the filters. 
Will drop from 2 to 1 feeds per day.

Man this is heartbreaking - two more look ready to carp it.









Oh yeah - can I use salt and pimafix AND melafix all at the same time? Sounds hardcore!


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Pimafix & melafix are made to work together. If it were me I would cut out the brine shrimp, & bloodworms as these are for smaller fish. Frozen brine is mostly just mess anyhow. Maybe you need a chart or calendar next to tank so if anyone feeds the fish they can put a check or something on the date so everyone else can easily see they've been fed already.


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## Guest (May 17, 2011)

Yes you can use melafix, pimafix and aquarium salt at the same time, it's the best combo to clear up any fungal/parasitical infections. If you have any plants in the tank remove them before dosing the salt as the salt will kill them. Just make sure if your using any carbon in your filters that you remove them.
Also what filtration are you running on the tank?

With your rbp's eating a tank mate, this is normal behaviour with juvies and casualties are very common and hard to avoid when dealing with younger Pygo's.

I suggest 30% weekly water changes, and what is your current temperature in the tank? Could be possible with you saying the fish are huddling up together in the corners, if you have a heater maybe the peeling your seeing is from heater burn that could of become infected.

What substrate are you using and is the substrate vacced weekly to remove waste?


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## Spudnik (May 29, 2010)

BRUNER247 said:


> Pimafix & melafix are made to work together. If it were me I would cut out the brine shrimp, & bloodworms as these are for smaller fish. Frozen brine is mostly just mess anyhow. Maybe you need a chart or calendar next to tank so if anyone feeds the fish they can put a check or something on the date so everyone else can easily see they've been fed already.


Already got a feeding rota on the go and also a filter cleaning rota (though so far it's only been me cleaning them out)
I had a horrible thought during this crisis today. I wonder if other members of staff, not on Team Piranha, have been chucking food in to see the piranhas in action but not a) put the right amount in, b) Not netted out the excess and c) Not written it in on the rota. I reckon I netted and syphoned out a double handful of [email protected] yesterday during a clean-out - I'd only been off work for 3 days!!


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## Spudnik (May 29, 2010)

Traveller said:


> Yes you can use melafix, pimafix and aquarium salt at the same time, it's the best combo to clear up any fungal/parasitical infections. If you have any plants in the tank remove them before dosing the salt as the salt will kill them. Just make sure if your using any carbon in your filters that you remove them.
> Also what filtration are you running on the tank?
> 
> With your rbp's eating a tank mate, this is normal behaviour with juvies and casualties are very common and hard to avoid when dealing with younger Pygo's.
> ...


Hi Traveller,

I have two external canister filters (a rena filstar xP1 and a Ferplast blue extreme 1500) as well as a large internal sponge filter. The canisters have a combo of sponges, ceramic tubes and wool.
Current temp is 27C but it was higher this morning as the small heater had been knocked somehow.
Substate is pea-gravel and gets vacced around every 7-10 days depending on my shifts that week! I had a slate pavement at one end as I thought this would help with clean-up after feeding but have now removed it as stuff was just falling between the cracks.
My lfs was closed by the time I got Pimafix and Melafix and salt advice but had some Pimafix at home so have done a dose of that until tomorrow.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Spudnik said:


> Hi,
> I have set up a red-belly tank for work. We started with 10 young piranhas (1 inch) which have all grown fast and looked healthy. Just over a week ago, one of the piranhas was demolished overnight, only the skull left in the morning and this morning we had a different death.
> They have been acting differently for a couple of days, all hiding together in a dark corner and not eating at meal times. One of my colleagues phoned me this morning to tell me that one piranha was swimming on its side and occasionally flipping upsidedown. It had died by the time I came in to work. Close inspection of the remaining fish shows that there is something on their skin, it almost looks like they're peeling (just like human skin after being sun-burnt). Could this be a slime-fungus thing?
> Since the murder of the first fish, there have also been lots of little white worms all over the tank. Have these come out of the piranha?
> ...


Prior to adding your fishies, was the tank ever cycled? Ammonia burn and increasing PH levels spikes out a concern. Also you can have rotten food sit for a few days and not get "PLANERIA" if you have the right set up with filteration x tank volume. Also Melafix and Primafix are great to help with certain bacteria and diseases but US OLD SKOOL HOBBYISTS know that the BEST methods are always choosing to stay away from chemicals because sometimes they just add to the problem is not done properly. Combining (or adding too much) chemicals together CAN cancel its purpose or even get toxic. I might get bitched at for going against some people's advice on here BUT they forgot you mentioned the fact that you only have babies.. 1"ers. Honestly.. would you feed your newborns 3 different meds that all do the same thing, all at once..????

Also, not trying to rain on your parade, dont be surprised if you see more deaths along the way. Remember P's in natural are all about survival of the fittest.. they might all huddle in the corners of your tank but they'll know who and pluck out the weakest link of the bunch. This pertains to pecking order, ranks, and different groups they form in the tank together (thats for another topic...)


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Spudnik said:


> Hi,
> I have set up a red-belly tank for work. We started with 10 young piranhas (1 inch) which have all grown fast and looked healthy. Just over a week ago, one of the piranhas was demolished overnight, only the skull left in the morning and this morning we had a different death.
> They have been acting differently for a couple of days, all hiding together in a dark corner and not eating at meal times. One of my colleagues phoned me this morning to tell me that one piranha was swimming on its side and occasionally flipping upsidedown. It had died by the time I came in to work. Close inspection of the remaining fish shows that there is something on their skin, it almost looks like they're peeling (just like human skin after being sun-burnt).Possibly ammonia burn. Could this be a slime-fungus thing?Fungus is almost cotton like. Ammonia burn usually looks like black patches on the fish
> Since the murder of the first fish, there have also been lots of little white worms all over the tank. Probably planaria from overfeeding. If they are planaria they are harmless but it does signifiy overfeeding and or lack of tank maitnenceHave these come out of the piranha?Of it is planaria they are not from in the piranha. Pretty much every tank has the capability of having planaria. Keep the tank clean and they will not be able to survive
> ...


I probably wouldn't add any meds to the tank. Clean the tank and planria will go away. Keep it clean and ammonia burn will go away.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

They're not 1" now. He stated they're 4".


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## Spudnik (May 29, 2010)

RhomZilla said:


> Hi,
> I have set up a red-belly tank for work. We started with 10 young piranhas (1 inch) which have all grown fast and looked healthy. Just over a week ago, one of the piranhas was demolished overnight, only the skull left in the morning and this morning we had a different death.
> They have been acting differently for a couple of days, all hiding together in a dark corner and not eating at meal times. One of my colleagues phoned me this morning to tell me that one piranha was swimming on its side and occasionally flipping upsidedown. It had died by the time I came in to work. Close inspection of the remaining fish shows that there is something on their skin, it almost looks like they're peeling (just like human skin after being sun-burnt). Could this be a slime-fungus thing?
> Since the murder of the first fish, there have also been lots of little white worms all over the tank. Have these come out of the piranha?
> ...


Prior to adding your fishies, was the tank ever cycled? Ammonia burn and increasing PH levels spikes out a concern. Also you can have rotten food sit for a few days and not get "PLANERIA" if you have the right set up with filteration x tank volume. Also Melafix and Primafix are great to help with certain bacteria and diseases but US OLD SKOOL HOBBYISTS know that the BEST methods are always choosing to stay away from chemicals because sometimes they just add to the problem is not done properly. Combining (or adding too much) chemicals together CAN cancel its purpose or even get toxic. I might get bitched at for going against some people's advice on here BUT they forgot you mentioned the fact that you only have babies.. 1"ers. Honestly.. would you feed your newborns 3 different meds that all do the same thing, all at once..????

Also, not trying to rain on your parade, dont be surprised if you see more deaths along the way. Remember P's in natural are all about survival of the fittest.. they might all huddle in the corners of your tank but they'll know who and pluck out the weakest link of the bunch. This pertains to pecking order, ranks, and different groups they form in the tank together (thats for another topic...)
[/quote]

Hi,
Yeah, tank was cycled for about two months (I'm new to Piranhas but not fishkeeping!







) 
I figured that the first death was a pecking order thing, I'd read up about it before setting up the tank. How easy is it to introduce new fish to an existing shoal (or combine 2 existing shoals?) if they're roughly all the same size? Ours are between 3 and 4 inches.
The planaria only appeared after the destruction of the murdered fish but that might have been a coincidence.

I'm really gutted and pi$$ed off. I just discovered, late last night that other people, not on the Piranha team, have been chucking food in the tank. They were probably showing off to friends or visitors or just curious but a girl at work said she'd seen people do it and she thought nothing of it until she saw one of the Piranha team feed them and enter the info on the rota (which the previous people obviously hadn't done so she thought it was odd). That explains why I scooped out so much crap on Monday, I didn't think the others would have been so stupid. 3 have died now. I could cry.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Adding more will be easy.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

If they are 4" now they don't really need to be fed over the weekend. Just feed them well prior and clean the tank then they will be fine for a couple days.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Spudnik said:


> How easy is it to introduce new fish to an existing shoal (or combine 2 existing shoals?) if they're roughly all the same size? Ours are between 3 and 4 inches.
> The planaria only appeared after the destruction of the murdered fish but that might have been a coincidence. 3 have died now. I could cry.


How easy??? Its a hit/miss situation.. For example, I had monster all Pygo shoals (9"-14") and have been in the hobby for a long while. Introduced 2 Piraya in the shoal (9" and 13") after feeding the current residents and acclimating the new guys. All was well monitoring for the 1st hr. Took the browns to the Super Bowl for 5 mins, came back, and the 13" was nothing more than just a head... the 9"er was doing fine.

And I know it gets frustrating when shiz doesnt go your way. Killings, deaths, and even an uncycled tank can make or break a person. But at this point in time, you can either leave or keep going.. it shows a true hobbyist compared to someone who just likes/appreciates the hobby.


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