# New Adventure



## FEEFA

Hi guys,

I have decided to try and run a saltwater tank, the only problem is that I know very little about it and will really need your help.

I was originally going to keep things very simple and just turn my small 5gal tank but I was told that the smaller the tank the harder that it will be to controll algae and other things. I was just going to use an ac 20 and no skimmer but this may not work well and my lighting that came with the tank is probably no good for saltwater either so. I have decided to convert my 20gal instead and hopefully build a sump.

I think that building the sump will be the most difficult part as I have never even seen one before and am not 100% sure how they work, I mean I understand the principle behind it but just not how to build and plumb one.

So here is what I was thinking, run the 20gal and turn the 5gal into a three chamber sump, I do not plan on drilling though so thats another question. Can I just use an overflow box on my 20gal or would it really be better to have my tank drilled? I have a friend that works in glass and may possibly be able to help me in that deptartment. 
If necessary I will buy a larger tank for a sump or maybe even just buy a sump depending on the price difference.
Under my 20gal I have room for a 20"x10"x10" sump, and that leaves enough rom fr plumbing above the sump and the back of my stand will be open aswell.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little so here is what I would like and what I have to work with.

I would like live rock, a couple of corals and a full cleanup crew. After that I will see what my options are for fish. 
For cleanup crew I was thinking gobby and blood shrinp amd emerald crabs, or whatever you suggest would be best.

What I have is

a 24"x12"x17" lxwxh tank

10pounds of white silica sand for substrate which I would like to keep

an ac 20 and 70 hob filters which I probably wont be using

and a t8 15watt singlestrip light that I realize probably wont be good for the setup either.

Thats it, basically I want a setup that will require as little maintainence as possible and to prepare now and save myself from problems later on.

I hope you experts can please find the time to help me out, I will be posting all pics of progress in this thread.

Thank you


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## shiver905

Feefa said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have decided to try and run a saltwater tank, the only problem is that I know very little about it and will really need your help.
> 
> I was originally going to keep things very simple and just turn my small 5gal tank but I was told that the smaller the tank the harder that it will be to controll algae and other things. I was just going to use an ac 20 and no skimmer but this may not work well and my lighting that came with the tank is probably no good for saltwater either so. I have decided to convert my 20gal instead and hopefully build a sump.
> 
> I think that building the sump will be the most difficult part as I have never even seen one before and am not 100% sure how they work, I mean I understand the principle behind it but just not how to build and plumb one.
> 
> So here is what I was thinking, run the 20gal and turn the 5gal into a three chamber sump, I do not plan on drilling though so thats another question. Can I just use an overflow box on my 20gal or would it really be better to have my tank drilled? I have a friend that works in glass and may possibly be able to help me in that deptartment.
> If necessary I will buy a larger tank for a sump or maybe even just buy a sump depending on the price difference.
> Under my 20gal I have room for a 20"x10"x10" sump, and that leaves enough rom fr plumbing above the sump and the back of my stand will be open aswell.
> 
> Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little so here is what I would like and what I have to work with.
> 
> I would like live rock, a couple of corals and a full cleanup crew. After that I will see what my options are for fish.
> For cleanup crew I was thinking gobby and blood shrinp amd emerald crabs, or whatever you suggest would be best.
> 
> What I have is
> 
> a 24"x12"x17" lxwxh tank
> 
> 10pounds of white silica sand for substrate which I would like to keep
> 
> an ac 20 and 70 hob filters which I probably wont be using
> 
> and a t8 15watt singlestrip light that I realize probably wont be good for the setup either.
> 
> Thats it, basically I want a setup that will require as little maintainence as possible and to prepare now and save myself from problems later on.
> 
> I hope you experts can please find the time to help me out, I will be posting all pics of progress in this thread.
> 
> Thank you


GOOD FOR YOU!

SW is preety fun and rewarding.

20Gal + a 5 gal sump is a great start to nanos.

But honestly if I were to go sump. Id do a skimmer.
Plumbing List:
Return pump - Mag 3 or a Mag 5.
Bulk head 3/4"
Overflow - Id make my own with plexi
1" PVC pipeing 
Ball Valve.
Lockline with a flare nozzle
PVC cleaner 
PCV cement
Few elbows (depending on your design)
Plexi ( to build a few baffels)
----

If I were you and didnt plan on using a skimmer. 
Then I would probably do a ALL IN ONE TANK -15g 24x12x12. 
Id section off 4" And build a refuge(sump) into the tank. (what im doing with my pico)
A 20x12x12 display sounds perfect.

---

Just get the tank and plumbing ready.
Then:
Ro/Di Unit
Saltwater test kit.
Hydrometer
Salt
Live Rock
Live Sand - I wouldnt use the sand you already have
Heater

Start your cycle.
------

As for lighting - You many options LED, METAl HALIDE, T5HO. (you go brain dead thinking about it) So pick this last.
- Your t8 wont work out.

----
If you do the 5gal sump. Id drill the tank. Its so much better.
Go to mops to do your shopping. They sell diamond drill bits to drill your glass!
Its very easy just keep it wet and dont apply to much pressure.
I say give it a try- Its very easy. N its good knowing.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

For a 20 gallon, I wouldnt bother with a sump unless you want to, its a plus but not necessary. A little intimidating for a nano imo.

I would go with a AquaC Remora HOB skimmer, dont worry about your HOB filters (unless you want to mod one into a fuge). Hook up the skimmer, and maybe do a 3-4 gallon water change weekly, thats all it really takes in my personal opinion. Also pick up 15-20lbs of good liverock. I would search kijiji for people tearing down their tanks. Last year I got some sexy LR, covered in Coraline, mushrooms, pods everywhere for 3 bucks a pound. I hear great things about the remora and combined with small weekly water changes and you will be good to go. Look at a 4 bulb t5 for lighting.

I would change the sand to something like CaribeSea Reef Sand.


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## His Majesty

this is a great choice on your part feefa. SW rules the world.

i have to side with sym on this. sump for a 20g is not really needed unless you really want one. 20g will do perfectly fine with a decent skimmer.
do you want to make this into a reef setup? or fowlr?
and white silica sand will look dead sexy


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## FEEFA

I'm not sure what fowler is?

I would like some live rock and and possibly a couple corals.
I will be buying proper lighting, what do you guys suggest.

To be honest this is all seeming very intimidating and I've decided that maybe I wont go with a sump yet.

So what type and size filter should I get? I was reading some of the pinned topics and saw that it is possible to use an ac filter.
So for the 20gal I was thinking of using my ac 70 for filtration and would it be possible to use an ac 20 for refugium?

I will pick up a good protein skimmer rated for larger than my tank.

Please be patient with me guys as this is all a learning process for me, I will be asking alot of probaly dumb questions but I just want to make sure that I'm doing things right.

To start the tank I was going to buy 20gal of ro water from my lfs, is this a good idea or should I mix it half and half tap water?

Some people are telling me that my silica sand should be fine and others are saying that it should be replaced? I'm confused and am not sure how to go about this.
I read in the pinned topic that sand is better than a gravel type substrate becaues it doesnt trap waste.


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## Guest

Feefa said:


> I'm not sure what fowler is?
> 
> I would like some live rock and and possibly a couple corals.
> I will be buying proper lighting, what do you guys suggest.
> 
> To be honest this is all seeming very intimidating and I've decided that maybe I wont go with a sump yet.
> 
> So what type and size filter should I get? I was reading some of the pinned topics and saw that it is possible to use an ac filter.
> So for the 20gal I was thinking of using my ac 70 for filtration and would it be possible to use an ac 20 for refugium?
> 
> I will pick up a good protein skimmer rated for larger than my tank.
> 
> Please be patient with me guys as this is all a learning process for me, I will be asking alot of probaly dumb questions but I just want to make sure that I'm doing things right.
> 
> To start the tank I was going to buy 20gal of ro water from my lfs, is this a good idea or should I mix it half and half tap water?


Feefa you are super brave! I will be watching this thread closely as I have a 35G I would love to turn into a SW setup but I am completely lost in the SW dept.


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## FEEFA

Me too K which is why in all honesty I'm still debating on whether I should convert the 20gal or do my learning on the 5gal.

I have a 9watt power compact on the 5gal but am not sure the details on it.
Also it is 1yr old, should it be replaced with a fresh bul because I know with fresh they should be replaced evey year?

I see you lurking Egir LOL I could really use your input on what I should do as a rookie


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## Guest

From what I have read. The bigger the tank the easier it is to maintain salinity. So I think it would be extremely hard to maintain a 5G with just evaporation alone


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## FEEFA

Agreed, the water does evaporate very quikly so I imagine that that would be a problem.

I have some very knowledgable people at my lfs so I'm going to go by there and bombard them with questions instead of posting on here every 5min.

So k your saying go with the 20gal then?
I was thinking the same thing especially if my light on the 5gal would have to be replaced I would rather just replace the one on my 20gal and do it right.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have decided to try and run a saltwater tank, the only problem is that I know very little about it and will really need your help.
> 
> I was originally going to keep things very simple and just turn my small 5gal tank but I was told that the smaller the tank the harder that it will be to controll algae and other things. I was just going to use an ac 20 and no skimmer but this may not work well and my lighting that came with the tank is probably no good for saltwater either so. I have decided to convert my 20gal instead and hopefully build a sump.
> 
> I think that building the sump will be the most difficult part as I have never even seen one before and am not 100% sure how they work, I mean I understand the principle behind it but just not how to build and plumb one.*It depends on how nice you want it to look, If you don't care about its looks, you can use rubbermaid containers and various other rubbermaid or buckets to hold media which would mean you don't have to cut any glass. You could also pay a local glass shop to cut some pieces and you or they could silicone it in*
> 
> So here is what I was thinking, run the 20gal and turn the 5gal into a three chamber sump*Id use something bigger then 5g. If you want a 2g display i would just buy a new 20g and use the new one as the display and turn the old one into a sump or refuge*, I do not plan on drilling though so thats another question. Can I just use an overflow box on my 20gal or would it really be better to have my tank drilled? *Drilling is safer, but an overflow box is fine. I run an overflow box on my 15g. *I have a friend that works in glass and may possibly be able to help me in that deptartment.
> If necessary I will buy a larger tank for a sump or maybe even just buy a sump depending on the price difference.
> Under my 20gal I have room for a 20"x10"x10" sump, and that leaves enough rom fr plumbing above the sump and the back of my stand will be open aswell.
> 
> Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little so here is what I would like and what I have to work with.
> 
> I would like live rock, a couple of corals and a full cleanup crew. After that I will see what my options are for fish.
> For cleanup crew I was thinking gobby and blood shrinp amd emerald crabs, or whatever you suggest would be best.
> 
> What I have is
> 
> a 24"x12"x17" lxwxh tank
> 
> 10pounds of white silica sand for substrate which I would like to keep*id get an actual reef substrate other then crushed coral like argonite. Marine sand also has buffering capabilities that you want*
> 
> an ac 20 and 70 hob filters which I probably wont be using
> 
> and a t8 15watt singlestrip light that I realize probably wont be good for the setup either.* No, but may be ok as a fuge light*
> 
> Thats it, basically I want a setup that will require as little maintainence as possible and to prepare now and save myself from problems later on.
> 
> I hope you experts can please find the time to help me out, I will be posting all pics of progress in this thread.
> 
> Thank you


----------



## FEEFA

This is weird, I feel like a lost puppy. I condider myself good with freshwater but now this is just crazy.









Thanks sean, I will look into the argonite then. I am nolonger going with the sump though and really I wouldnt have the space for a 20gal sump in my cabinet.
So what do you suggest filter and skimmer wise?


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> I'm not sure what fowler is?*fish only with live rock-aka no coral*
> 
> I would like some live rock and and possibly a couple corals.
> I will be buying proper lighting, what do you guys suggest.*depends on what you want to keep. MH lighting would be good or t5 *
> 
> To be honest this is all seeming very intimidating and I've decided that maybe I wont go with a sump yet. *If you don't do a sump, you want a good skimmer.*
> 
> So what type and size filter should I get? I was reading some of the pinned topics and saw that it is possible to use an ac filter.
> So for the 20gal I was thinking of using my ac 70 for filtration and would it be possible to use an ac 20 for refugium?*for a 20g, you could do a ac110 as a refuge. an ac 20 would really help with much*
> 
> I will pick up a good protein skimmer rated for larger than my tank.*remoras or backpacks are commonly used for nanos*
> 
> Please be patient with me guys as this is all a learning process for me, I will be asking alot of probaly dumb questions but I just want to make sure that I'm doing things right.
> 
> To start the tank I was going to buy 20gal of ro water from my lfs, is this a good idea or should I mix it half and half tap water?*Dont use any tap water. You may want to buy your own ro unit too*
> 
> Some people are telling me that my silica sand should be fine and others are saying that it should be replaced? I'm confused and am not sure how to go about this.
> I read in the pinned topic that sand is better than a gravel type substrate becaues it doesnt trap waste.*Yes, but a marine quality sand is better as it can affect the water chemistry too. Trapping debris is why crushed coral is frowned upon*


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## FEEFA

My friend had a severe problem with hair algae in his 29 gal biocube, how can this be prevented?

We were told that refugium would help, is this true and could I run a second ac 70 for refugium?



CLUSTER ONE said:


> I'm not sure what fowler is?*fish only with live rock-aka no coral*
> 
> I would like some live rock and and possibly a couple corals.
> I will be buying proper lighting, what do you guys suggest.*depends on what you want to keep. MH lighting would be good or t5 *
> 
> To be honest this is all seeming very intimidating and I've decided that maybe I wont go with a sump yet. *If you don't do a sump, you want a good skimmer.*
> 
> So what type and size filter should I get? I was reading some of the pinned topics and saw that it is possible to use an ac filter.
> So for the 20gal I was thinking of using my ac 70 for filtration and would it be possible to use an ac 20 for refugium?*for a 20g, you could do a ac110 as a refuge. an ac 20 would really help with much*
> 
> I will pick up a good protein skimmer rated for larger than my tank.*remoras or backpacks are commonly used for nanos*
> 
> Please be patient with me guys as this is all a learning process for me, I will be asking alot of probaly dumb questions but I just want to make sure that I'm doing things right.
> 
> To start the tank I was going to buy 20gal of ro water from my lfs, is this a good idea or should I mix it half and half tap water?*Dont use any tap water. You may want to buy your own ro unit too*
> 
> Some people are telling me that my silica sand should be fine and others are saying that it should be replaced? I'm confused and am not sure how to go about this.
> I read in the pinned topic that sand is better than a gravel type substrate becaues it doesnt trap waste.*Yes, but a marine quality sand is better as it can affect the water chemistry too. Trapping debris is why crushed coral is frowned upon*


[/quote]

So the ac20 Would or wouldnt help much?

So the ac 70 would be good for filtration? if it is then I would only need to pick up an ac 110 for my refuge


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## CLUSTER ONE

I would use a remora skimmer. I've heard great things about the tunze nano, but i'm not sure if there is a hob version of it.

I would go with the 20g for stability and just build it slowly. Ive had my 15g setup (after upgrading from a 10 to a 15g with a 10g sump) for probably a year or more now (the 10g was set up for about 2 years prior to upgrading) and i am still adding more corals. For sw you have to take it slow as impulse buys can be expensive losses. Does your friend use tap water? If so thats probably why. You need ro water unless you like constant algae. A refuge can help as it will outcompete algae. Honestly, i doubt either hob ac fuge will help that much. In my system, i probably have 4 gallons of macro algae. For a small tank ac fuges are fine, but for a 20g tank i would rely on a skimmer if you don't have a good fuge and not bother with a hob fuge as you would have to light it too.


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## FEEFA

So since you are saying not to go with an ac fuge filter then what sized ac should I use for regular filtration?
Would the ac 70 still be enough or should I go with the 110 or the emp 200 as I mentioned


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

You don't need any filters like you would for FW. All you gotta do is buy the remora HOB skimmer or another quality skimmer, some liverock, a heater, power heads, sand, lights and thats it. The Hang on back filters are not needed at all unless you want to convert one to a fuge, you dont even have to. I think the remora can handle everything combined with a small weekly water change and you will be golden.

On my 10 gallon I had no form of filtration what so ever, not even a skimmer. Tank did great, I got a lot of coraline growth and everything went swell. All I had in the tank was a powerhead and a heater and like 8 lbs of Liverock and a clownfish. I changed like 3 gallons of water once a week or once every 2 weeks to boot.

On a FW tank you rely on a canister filter or a hob filter to keep things good.

On a SW you rely on liverock, your skimmer, and waterchanges. I think of SW tanks as true eco-systems where all the living things take care of one another for the health of the tank


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## FEEFA

Very cool Danny, and thanks for that info. You're right and Cluster one said the same thing, I've got to get past the idea of filtration like in FW


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## shiver905

As is said b4,

If your going sumpless, Do a false wall. AIO type..

This way, 
You can fit a Refudge, Chemical filtration and mech filtration, and get some surafce skimming done.

All you ready need is a pump and plexi. You get to hide all your equipment in it also.

Im not a fand of HOB filter on SW tanks. It looks like a giant boner from teh back and your room is limited.

Anyways.
It all works.


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## His Majesty

looks like everyone is doing a good job of answering your question. i really dig the fact we have a pretty decent SW community on pfury.

What i would suggest is to set the tank up with the sand, LR skimmer and lights, let it cycle then add a couple of small fish. as soon as you feel comfortable and the system is working smoothly slowly add some hardy corals. that way if you do c*ck something up in the early stages you wont make a big loss. and this way you build up your experience gradually.

and as DT said, a decent quality skimmer, and water changes is all you need. and the LR will do its natural job of filtration to help it all along


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## FEEFA

What do you guys think about this sump?
Could I use it on a 38gal saltwater?
http://toronto.kijij...QAdIdZ176654537

I already got him down to 75 bucks, is that a good price and should I buy it?

The guy says that its been sitting for some time so I'm worried about the silicone.
I then told him that I would give him 50 if the seals have to be redone.

I will wait and see what he replies


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> What do you guys think about this sump?
> Could I use it on a 38gal saltwater?
> http://toronto.kijij...QAdIdZ176654537
> 
> I already got him down to 75 bucks, is that a good price and should I buy it?
> 
> The guy says that its been sitting for some time so I'm worried about the silicone.
> I then told him that I would give him 50 if the seals have to be redone.
> 
> I will wait and see what he replies


 Looks ok, but i don't really like the baffle placement. The baffle placement makes having a fuge harder. If you did get it i would do a large chunck of live rock in the intake, skimmer then return in the last chamber. Its Its about 12g, so its not really that large. Baffles are pretty low too, but you could run it above that though it depends what height your skimmer is running at. If it was on a 40g tank, i dont even know if you could fit an in sump skimmer or pump in there, but for a 40g tank i would want a larger sump

All in all, i probably wouldn't get it unless you can get it for 50$ and you want to use it on the 20g tank. I would also ask for the interior dimensions of each seaction so you know what pumps or skimmer can even fit in there. The sections look pretty even so i would guess at 20" total, each section will be under 6.5" after the thickness of glass is included. this would mean it could be tight for a skimmer and its pumo in any chamber.


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## FEEFA

He wont go lower than 75gal so Iam gonna pass on it.


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## FEEFA

I have found someone selling 25lbs of live rock for 75$ so I will hopefully be picking it up on saturday.
However I am not ready to set things up yet so how long can I keep it in a bucket with water and does the water have to be salt water?


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## His Majesty

just get a bucket, put the LR in with salt water, stick a heater in and a powerhead and cover the top. you might have to top up on the water depending on how long your keeping it for. if the lr has coral on it then you will need a light otherwise dont bother.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> I have found someone selling 25lbs of live rock for 75$ so I will hopefully be picking it up on saturday.
> However I am not ready to set things up yet so how long can I keep it in a bucket with water and does the water have to be salt water?


 Thats a good price, but i would want a picture or it first to make sure its nice looking rock as there are alot of differnt types or rock and different qualities.

The bucket must be salt water of appropriate salinity or you will kill all the life and bacteria in it making it not live rock. To keep it alive all you need is a heater and some powerhead or filter for flow. You may want a light over it too depending on whats on the rock.


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## shiver905

Instead of LR, n such. Why dont you get the tank ready first.

Set it up, put some water in it. Get the salinity right.. Then shop for LR.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Yeah Feefa I would not get the LR now. Dont worry about it though, live rock deals on kijiji and craigslist come and go all the time. I would set the tank up like shiver said and give it a few days and then go out and look for liverock.


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## Ægir

Danny Tanner said:


> Yeah Feefa I would not get the LR now. Dont worry about it though, live rock deals on kijiji and craigslist come and go all the time. I would set the tank up like shiver said and give it a few days and then go out and look for liverock.


Or order dry base rock from Marcorocks.com and seed it with a few pieces of live rock... will save tons of money, and save lots of headaches (hitch hikers, and other things)

Because you are cycling the tank, it will not cause any problems, and the ammonia and other spikes wont be detrimental to the live rock you paid dearly for.

Sorry i havent been around much to throw out ideas... i think your are on the right track so far, and if you need anything dont hesitate to drop me a PM


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## CLUSTER ONE

Ægir said:


> Yeah Feefa I would not get the LR now. Dont worry about it though, live rock deals on kijiji and craigslist come and go all the time. I would set the tank up like shiver said and give it a few days and then go out and look for liverock.


Or order dry base rock from Marcorocks.com and seed it with a few pieces of live rock... will save tons of money, and save lots of headaches (hitch hikers, and other things)

Because you are cycling the tank, it will not cause any problems, and the ammonia and other spikes wont be detrimental to the live rock you paid dearly for.

Sorry i havent been around much to throw out ideas... i think your are on the right track so far, and if you need anything dont hesitate to drop me a PM









[/quote]

does marcro rocks ship to canada? I think it was reef builders that didnt even ship there base rock to canada due to import costs and duties.

Never mind, i see they do, but from what i saw local kiji liverock is cheaper then this as it was about 75$ for 20 lbs there plus shipping. Id probably just get the local rock, but like i said eariler if you want it ask for a pic as some pieces of live rock are ugly as sin so its always nice to handpick your own rock or at least get a feel for what you can do with it. Like aegir said lR can give you hitchhikers that are pita to remove. My rock was bought as live rock and if its from a previously sucsessful system, i wouldnt think the old owner would of removed any large hitchhikers


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## Ægir

CLUSTER ONE said:


> does marcro rocks ship to canada? I think it was reef builders that didnt even ship there base rock to canada due to import costs and duties.
> 
> Never mind, i see they do, but from what i saw local kiji liverock is cheaper then this as it was about 75$ for 20 lbs there plus shipping. Id probably just get the local rock, but like i said eariler if you want it ask for a pic as some pieces of live rock are ugly as sin so its always nice to handpick your own rock or at least get a feel for what you can do with it. Like aegir said lR can give you hitchhikers that are pita to remove. My rock was bought as live rock and if its from a previously sucsessful system, i wouldnt think the old owner would of removed any large hitchhikers


Dont get me wrong, bacteria and other diversity is a good thing to populate your rock... but paying for good looking rock is a waste unless you are adding it to an established system.

During a cycle, the ammonia (and nitrites / ates?) is going to kill off lots of the surface covering things (sponges, etc) ESPECIALLY when they are overgrown with algae and starved for light...

Its a catch-22 because you need the rock for filtration, but pay high dollar for "good looking" and colorful rock... In a new system, you can use dry base rock and use small pieces of rubble, and a few pieces of live rock from as many different systems as you want to get that diversity, and not sacrifice any money. Once your cycle is complete your rock will be slightly colored up, and in a system with proper params (calcium for more coraline!) in 6 months or so your rock will be the same thing, and you wont have to watch it die off and re grow.

In the install i am doing, i have never been more pleased with using nothing but base rock and seeding it... Theres nothing i have to worry about, other than the 3 starfish, snails and things I HAVE PUT IN my tank. Another benefit, is no die-off like mentioned earlier (which raises ammonia etc)... because of that (and killer filtration/skimming from day 1) we had an extremely mellow system cycle, and the ammonia never reached toxic levels before it made its way through and VANISHED. If i used all live rock, this would have been a drawn out process.

Theres more pics in my thread, i dont know if you have seen them so heres an example or 2 of their rock:

300lbs on a 4'x8' sheet of plywood









Quick arch


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## FEEFA

Thank you all very much for all your help and suggestions so far it is greartly appreciated.

My Adventure begins today, I picked up my Hydrometer, red sea salt just for my initial start up to keep costs down I will be using reef crystals salt later on.
Also got my korilia 1 powerhead and new sponges and media for my ac70 which I will be using for now till I get my skimmer then it will only be used for filter floss.
1 15lb bag of aragonite 1-2mm sand so it wont get blown around too much.

I will be filling the tank next week, adding substrate and salt. The following week I will pick up my LR and let it sit in the dark for a couple of weeks.

I'll get some pics up once its full and any info or suggestions appreciated

As for salinity I was told to shoot for 30 with a specific gravity of around 1.022

What do you think?


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

bump it to 1.025. You can never be 100 percent sure about what your salinity is with a hydrometer though, but if you get a refractometer you can.


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## FEEFA

Thanks sym, will do and I will hopefully pick one up down the road after the initial start up costs


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## shiver905

why leave your LR in the dark?

I thought that was a myth- (if your reffering to algea control)

Its part of the cycle.

algea, Diatoms,..blah blah


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Feefa register on Aquariumpros.ca. Wow man their classifieds section is all ppl from toronto area selling stuff for soo cheap. I saw an 8bulb high end t5 for my 75 g going for 250$ (retails for around 700).


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## FEEFA

shiver905 said:


> why leave your LR in the dark?
> 
> I thought that was a myth- (if your reffering to algea control)
> 
> Its part of the cycle.
> 
> algea, Diatoms,..blah blah


So I shouldnt even wait a couple days?

I was told by some chooch at my lsf that it would be better to let things die off and then get it started

Thanks sym I will def check that out


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

I think the "chooch" might be selling uncured rock?

its its cured there still will be a cycle but not a massive one

You dont have to let it sit in the dark . Unless there is coraline on the rock that you want to live or some other small colonies of some coral then you can leave the lights on, if things die off during the cycle they die off no big deal.

Speaking of lighting, Aquarium Pros has a 24 inch Solaris LED fixture which is like one of the best options for lighting. I say 650 dollars and be done with lighting for the next 5-7 years. No bulb changes, np heat, less electricity bill. haha j/k i kno you want the costs down unless you really want to, if I had the cash I would do it


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## FEEFA

I just filled the tank, added my aragonite and fiji live rock.
Salinity is around 1.024-25 and my lights are off.

How long should I keep the lights off for?

I'm running my ac 70 with bio and sponge right now, should I add carbon or wait a bit?
Once I get my skimmer I will convert the ac into a refuge, will this cause a recycle or anything?


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Keep the lights off until you add livestock or keep them on if your rock has coraline or something else living on it. There is absolutely no point of running bio in the ac your rock is bio filter. Just add a powerhead and ditch the ac I see no point of it other than some extra flow? Get your skimmer asap


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## FEEFA

Thanks DT, I will loose the bio media and replace it with some floss then just to clean up the water till I add the skimmer.
Should I even bother turning it into a refugium?

When should I test the water and what should I test for other than ammo nitrite and nitrates?


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## CLUSTER ONE

With a good skimmer, you wont need a fuge... well a hob fuge wont do much. Generally hob fuges are used on under 10g tanks where there is no skimmer. If you have a skimmer its not needed and for a 20g tank it wont do much anyways. If you want a functional fuge you should make one with another aquarium


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## FEEFA

Should I just run the ac with floss then aswell as having a skimmer? Wouldnt it break things down more making it easier for the skimmer to remove it/them?


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

I hear it will trap debris which will eventually become a nitrate factory is the floss isn't changed daily. I would not worry about any floss tho, skimmer and waterchanges are enough.


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## Ægir

Feefa said:


> Should I just run the ac with floss then aswell as having a skimmer? Wouldnt it break things down more making it easier for the skimmer to remove it/them?


No, its most likely just going to add clutter and more work to the system... the idea in saltwater is not to BREAK DOWN but to EXPORT waste (skimming, water changes, etc)... having a ridiculous amount of flow keeps waste suspended in the water column until the skimmer can catch and remove it, and to prevent it form settling and decaying further.

*BEST*: sump with skimmer and everything inside
*
Better*: Tank with HOB skimmer, lots of rock
*
good*: tank with rock, and HOB fuge?
*
ok* (temporary i hope!) tank with nothing but rock and a powerhead

Looks like you are moving along fine, cant wait to see what you decide on


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## FEEFA

I am definately picking up a skimmer, I have 22lbs of rock(is this enough?) A Current nova extreme 2x24wtt fixture and I'll be getting a 4 light led moonlight type of fixture aswell for more light.
one korilia 2 and my ac 70 for flow. I find my korilia 2 a lil weak though, if I replace the ac70 with another p/h which one should I get without it being too much? I was thinking of getting the K3 to run with the K2, is this enough current?

Also is surface agitation a good thing for reef tanks? I'm getting aggitation and micro bubbles from the ac, if its a good thing than I will just keep it running for flow rather than getting another powerhead.

So far the tank is looking sweet, I will post up some pics asap


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

I would have got atleast a 4 bulb t5 so you could do the dawn dusk thing with the atinics, and it would have given you more choice coral wise. The corals look jaw dropping when atinics are on only.

Hmm with the powerheads, Im not that familiar I guess you would have to play around with them. Maybe add another K2? Its annoying when you have to much flow as the sandbed will never settle. Also yeah like Egir said surface agitation is really important, it keeps debris suspended for your skimmer to take care of it.

really looking forward to pics


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## Ægir

Feefa said:


> I am definately picking up a skimmer, I have 22lbs of rock(is this enough?) A Current nova extreme 2x24wtt fixture and I'll be getting a 4 light led moonlight type of fixture aswell for more light.
> one korilia 2 and my ac 70 for flow. I find my korilia 2 a lil weak though, if I replace the ac70 with another p/h which one should I get without it being too much? I was thinking of getting the K3 to run with the K2, is this enough current?
> 
> Also is surface agitation a good thing for reef tanks? I'm getting aggitation and micro bubbles from the ac, if its a good thing than I will just keep it running for flow rather than getting another powerhead.
> 
> So far the tank is looking sweet, I will post up some pics asap


For the powerheads, its hard to tell... When i first moved to salt, i thought the flow was outrageous in the tanks i saw and in the "big picture" it was under powered. The key thing is random turbulence not a constant linear flow. If you could add something like a Vortech MP10 or 20 with a programmed flow setting (reef crest, lagoon, etc) that would be best... I am a firm believer in ending up with the best possible in the long run so, if it took you a few months to save up and buy one as opposed to buying another few Koralias NOW (which are always on constantly) it would be worth it. In the life of the tank, you could replace a few cheap powerheads 5 times, or buy one or two badass ones. We cant begin to replicate the power, and water movment of waves crashing on a reef, or even a "calm" lagoon in a reef aquarium, and when you think you have enough, double it or even triple it... My biggest problem was keeping sand on the bottom of the tank.

Its always worth saving up and getting better gear later (patience comes into play) than springing for what you can afford now, just to have it ASAP.

You can prob also scrap that AC HOB too.... really its not doing anything worth the power its using. If its causing micro bubbles, thats 2 (or 10) reasons to unplug it.


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## FEEFA

Thanks Danny, I will def keep the ac70 for flow along with the single K2

The skimmer that I plan on getting is a seaclone 100 HOB, do you guys think that it will do the job?


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## FEEFA

Ægir said:


> I am definately picking up a skimmer, I have 22lbs of rock(is this enough?) A Current nova extreme 2x24wtt fixture and I'll be getting a 4 light led moonlight type of fixture aswell for more light.
> one korilia 2 and my ac 70 for flow. I find my korilia 2 a lil weak though, if I replace the ac70 with another p/h which one should I get without it being too much? I was thinking of getting the K3 to run with the K2, is this enough current?
> 
> Also is surface agitation a good thing for reef tanks? I'm getting aggitation and micro bubbles from the ac, if its a good thing than I will just keep it running for flow rather than getting another powerhead.
> 
> So far the tank is looking sweet, I will post up some pics asap


For the powerheads, its hard to tell... When i first moved to salt, i thought the flow was outrageous in the tanks i saw and in the "big picture" it was under powered. The key thing is random turbulence not a constant linear flow. If you could add something like a Vortech MP10 or 20 with a programmed flow setting (reef crest, lagoon, etc) that would be best... I am a firm believer in ending up with the best possible in the long run so, if it took you a few months to save up and buy one as opposed to buying another few Koralias NOW (which are always on constantly) it would be worth it. In the life of the tank, you could replace a few cheap powerheads 5 times, or buy one or two badass ones. We cant begin to replicate the power, and water movment of waves crashing on a reef, or even a "calm" lagoon in a reef aquarium, and when you think you have enough, double it or even triple it... My biggest problem was keeping sand on the bottom of the tank.

Its always worth saving up and getting better gear later (patience comes into play) than springing for what you can afford now, just to have it ASAP.

You can prob also scrap that AC HOB too.... really its not doing anything worth the power its using. If its causing micro bubbles, thats 2 (or 10) reasons to unplug it.
[/quote]

Does the MP10 work with the powerheads or is it a dirrerent type of powerhead alltogether?
I will def google it.

I have no problem spending the cash as long as the tank runs properly, thanks for the words of wisdom though, I tend to impulse buy LOL

I just need guidence in this since I dont really know what I'm doing yet.

Here are some pics, I'm wondering if I selected good peices, theres a couple that dont even look like rock to me

Forgot to add the pics


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## shiver905

An MP10 is preety balling, every Reefer wants a Vortech,

If I had the money Id deff grab one.

With your light you will limit yourself with corals, SPS wont work out very well and they need a Great amount of flow + light.

For Softies I wouldnt bother spending the cash on an mp10 unless I upgraded the Light first.
..

With that said You will be fine with most softies.
So its not a bad light.

The Seaclone sucks from everything i hear about it. People use it for a few and throw it out.

If your going to get a skimmer get something good.
I really like the Deltec MCE300.
Its $$,

But as i said you dont need a skimmer. You have the option to ball out and grab something nice or layback, Let Saltwater grow on you, save pennys and Get something Good.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> I am definately picking up a skimmer, I have 22lbs of rock(is this enough?) * Rock choise is like substrate depth. Personally i like alot of rock and over 1 lbs per gallon, but some like to do less* A Current nova extreme 2x24wtt fixture and I'll be getting a 4 light led moonlight type of fixture aswell for more light. The current fixture will be good for shrooms and zoas, but not much more. Im not sure what you mean by a 4 light led moonlight though. Is it a 4 light led or moonlights (note moonlights are for asthetics and usually use normal led bulbs. Are you talking about the current usa 4 led light? If you are, i dont think they are even that cheap so i would say just get a better light if you want a nice reefone korilia 2 and my ac 70 for flow. I find my korilia 2 a lil weak though, if I replace the ac70 with another p/h which one should I get without it being too much? I was thinking of getting the K3 to run with the K2, is this enough current? * Well the way your headed you arnt doing any hard corals so a k3 would be plenty*
> 
> Also is surface agitation a good thing for reef tanks? I'm getting aggitation and micro bubbles from the ac, if its a good thing than I will just keep it running for flow rather than getting another powerhead. *Its generally good which is why overflow boxes skim the surface to remove the oil on top*
> 
> So far the tank is looking sweet, I will post up some pics asap


I also still strongly suggest a remora, tunze or back pack over a seaclone. You can usually find used remoras locally too. A remora would also be able to keep up with any stock on that tank or if you decide to upgrade your lighting and add some hard corals.

I wouldnt bother with a MP as they are expensive. They look cool, but for a 20g hardy tank they arnt much better then a korilia, but they cost way more. If you spend the 200$ on anything, imo start with a good skimmer and a good light.

Not bad rock you picked too. How many lbs is that as it looks less then 20 lbs


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

I would go with the remora, not to pricey either. Seaclone has terrible reviews on the internet.

Your scape and Rockwork is AMAZING. I love it!

I am also loving how we cant see the heater and all that crap, seriously I think it looks top notch .


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## FEEFA

Thanks DT I'm glad you like it

You guys are right, I think that a 4bulb t5ho would be better, I'm gonna return this light tomarrow and see what als has available.
I'm also going to try and find a better skimmer


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## FEEFA

Is this one too big for my 20gal?

http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/remora-with-maxi-1200-p-3210.html


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## FEEFA

Here's the light I want, hopefully als has it in stock

http://www.marineandreef.com/Nova_Extreme_T5_Aquarium_Lighting_Current_USA_p/rcu01120.htm


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## CLUSTER ONE

The remora with the maxi jet is the one that was recomened. I would also check some online stores for lights as beig als doesnt have that large of a selection and they arnt cheap. A MH light is another option like a 24" sunpod.


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## FEEFA

True but I'm returning the one that I bought and will now have store credit towards the new light or skimmer.

I think MH is a bit overboard for my tank and besides I like the look with the actinics


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## Guest

Looking good Feefa! Once you have mastered this I will get you to help me with mine :laugh:


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> True but I'm returning the one that I bought and will now have store credit towards the new light or skimmer.
> 
> I think MH is a bit overboard for my tank and besides I like the look with the actinics


A 150W MH light would let you keep pretty much anything assuming you got a remora and they are comparable in price to 4 bulb 24" t5. MH also have a sweet shimmer effect and sun pods come with i think 12 or more leds (normal) that are practically moon lighting.


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## shiver905

This should be great, Myself, You, and Tanner are all at about the smae stage at setting up.
This is gunna be good for P Fury.

Updates??


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## FEEFA

My tank is all set up and has been running for 2 weeks.

Heres a breakdown of how and what I'm running.

-24"x12"x16" tank
-Seaclone 100 hob skimmer, not the best choice I guess but it is rated for 100gal so lets see how it goes.
- A Korilia nano and a Korilia 2 for flow, also I still have my ac 70 for flow with filterfloss that I'm changing regularly.
-25lbs of fiji live rock
-20lbs of aragonite 1-2mm substrate that gave me a nice 1" layer
-2x24watt Current usa fixturewith one 460nm actinic and 1 10000k bulb and my old reg t8 with an oceanic 10000k bulb thats only 15watts for a total of 63watts.

Just the skimmer, light, powerheads, substrate, and live rock ended up costing me over 400$ which was alot more than I wanted to spend which is why I went with the seaclone and stuck with the current usa fixture.

I will get some new pics up asap maybe even tonight of everything rescaped, I wasnt liking the way that I had the rock set up.
I after 2 weeks I just added a yellow tail damsel, hopefully in another couple weeks I can start adding fire shrimp,snails, crabs etc

I am still having a hard time with the idea that I dont need added bio filtration but we'll see what happens


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## Guest

Feefa, I cant wait to see your pics


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## shiver905

ksls is a loser


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> I am still having a hard time with the idea that I dont need added bio filtration but we'll see what happens


 You have 55lbs of it. Anyways good luck with the setup and be sure to keep us updated, Check kijiji and other local sites as you can usually find cheap equipment as stores will rob you on sw stuff, For corals, you can usually find people selling cheap 5$ frags especially in toronto.


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## FEEFA

Thanks Sean and yeah I'm on kijiji everyday checking for stuff.

Great news also I have a friend that is going to throw me a 65gal for free so if I like how the saltwater thing goes then I may upgrade in a yr


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## shiver905

Tanks are cheap.
A tank shouldnt be why you choose a tank.

Unless its starfire glass, pre drilled.. ect ect..


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## Guest

shiver905 said:


> ksls is a loser


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## FEEFA

Just did my first waterchange after 3 weeks of setup and added a occelarus clown to go with my blue yellow tail damsel.
I also bought my first coral today, the guy called it a mushroom coral and it is tiny at only about the size of my thumb.

So far everything is looking good although I know that it is still very early but I'm happy with it so far.

Pics to come later tonight


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## CLUSTER ONE

Ill be waiting for pics. Careful with coral frags too as there easy to lose. If you have a frag you may want to do a frag rack or glue the frag to a larger piece of rock as i've lost some things that have fallen into the rockwork before. Especially with crabs, urchins, snails or whatever crawling around, things are easy to get knocked over


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

WHERE ARE THE FU%%%^@#^$%^&%&%^&%&%^&%^&% PICS!!!!


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## Trigga

thats awesome feefa sw is something ive always wanted to do... post up some pics man!


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## shiver905

Ur selling it???

WHY!?!?!


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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> Ur selling it???
> 
> WHY!?!?!


Where did he say this?


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## His Majesty

^ditto. im confused


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## FEEFA

I did post it up on kijiji, just checking to see if anyone is interested


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## His Majesty

so are you intending on giving it away not?


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## FEEFA

If I can get close to the asking price then I may sell it but I'm good either way


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## His Majesty

ohh why you wanting to get rid of it? you only set it up recently


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## xeloR

i just saw this thread! nice nano feefa!

imo sw is a huge pain in the ass, especially a nano!


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## CLUSTER ONE

xeloR said:


> i just saw this thread! nice nano feefa!
> 
> imo sw is a huge pain in the ass, especially a nano!


 can be, but its much mroe interesting then fw


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## CLUSTER ONE

Feefa said:


> I did post it up on kijiji, just checking to see if anyone is interested


 LINK? I CANT FIND IT


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## xeloR

agreed


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## FEEFA

Type in saltwater setup


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## shiver905

trueeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## FEEFA

Here are some updated pics, its been running for about 2 months now.
I added 2 blood shrimp and I forget what the coral is called (could someone please remind me?)

I have some nice algae starting to build but I know that I still have a long way to go but hey its a start.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Looks great feefa. You can look forward to more and more coraline growth as the months progress I love how reef tanks are always changing.


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## His Majesty

Great start feefa. your tank will develop and grow as the months go by.

you gonna be adding any more coral?


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## FEEFA

I'd like to but add more coral but I'm taking slow and seeing how these new polups do


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## FEEFA

What test kits should I buy? There were 2 at bigals one had ammo and the basics and the other had other stuff that I dont recal.
As a responsible keeper I know that I should have all of them but they are pricey.

My coral(polyups Ithink they're called are not all opening since I got them couple days ago, what do you think the problem is and what should I test for?


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## shiver905

API reef master test kit and the api saltwater test kit.
I have them, They are preety bad(hard to use). But priced well

But if i were you, id shell out some more $ and buy the better test kits elos/salifert.
Even b4 that make shure you have a refractometer.

BTW im glad you decided to keep the tank.


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## FEEFA

Thanks shiver but what is a refractometer?


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## CLUSTER ONE

****** said:


> Thanks shiver but what is a refractometer?


same purpose as a hydrometer, but way more accurate. Costs usually $50-$100, but its a one time purchase pretty much. You take a sample of the water then look through a telescope like eyepiece take a reading. I just use a hydrometer (make sure you rince it with fw after useages), but if you want mroe then just soft coral i would look into a refractometer. It works on the index of refraction (bending of light through different mediums) of mediums. You have seen this when looking into a pool at an object underwater (which looks to be moved a bit compared to if there was no water in the pool.

Diagram


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## Ægir

****** said:


> What test kits should I buy? There were 2 at bigals one had ammo and the basics and the other had other stuff that I dont recal.
> As a responsible keeper I know that I should have all of them but they are pricey.
> 
> My coral(polyups Ithink they're called are not all opening since I got them couple days ago, what do you think the problem is and what should I test for?


You will need to know PH, alk, Calcium, Nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, phosphates, for sure. Magnesium, and copper are good to have on hand.

The problem could be lots of things... most likely a change in flow, or lighting intensity from their previous home. It could also be that your PH, or another water parameter is fluctuating because your tank is still "immature".


----------

