# Are your Rhoms getting enough REM?



## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Perhaps one of the problems in breeding lies in the mimicry of day/night. Are those attempting to breed using timers to control lighting so that the tank's light patterns mimic those of the piranha's natural environment?

Is this an overlooked area?

Your thoughts.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

Lighting patterns are the least important factor in rhom breeding....

First work on them living together, then u can get into the details of getting them to breed.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Aaronic said:


> Lighting patterns are the least important factor in rhom breeding....
> 
> First work on them living together, then u can get into the details of getting them to breed.


But perhaps this is a universal misconception?
[/quote]

My strategy for getting them to cohabitate well is to distract them with games, powerhead games.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

Further, it makes sense to regulate things that might add to the stress of being a piranha.


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## cleary (Feb 14, 2007)

I think its important....I just learned about REM sleep and I don't think the fish don't fall into a deep enough sleep for REM but I do use the day light for about 8 hours on a timer and then the moon lights come on in my tank....my fish seem a lot more relaxed with the moon lights on or in the dark


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

cleary said:


> I think its important....I just learned about REM sleep and I don't think the fish don't fall into a deep enough sleep for REM but I do use the day light for about 8 hours on a timer and then the moon lights come on in my tank....my fish seem a lot more relaxed with the moon lights on or in the dark


Yeah, I have no idea what sleep is like for fish but mimicing light patterns seems utterly important. what is a moon light?


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## cleary (Feb 14, 2007)

yourockit said:


> I think its important....I just learned about REM sleep and I don't think the fish don't fall into a deep enough sleep for REM but I do use the day light for about 8 hours on a timer and then the moon lights come on in my tank....my fish seem a lot more relaxed with the moon lights on or in the dark


Yeah, I have no idea what sleep is like for fish but mimicing light patterns seems utterly important. what is a moon light?
[/quote]

moon lights are blue LED lights....they call them moonlights because the color blue is the only color that refracts threw the water and it makes look like natural moon light at least that's what my oceanography teacher told me and the people at the web site that i got the lights from


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

cleary said:


> I think its important....I just learned about REM sleep and I don't think the fish don't fall into a deep enough sleep for REM but I do use the day light for about 8 hours on a timer and then the moon lights come on in my tank....my fish seem a lot more relaxed with the moon lights on or in the dark


Yeah, I have no idea what sleep is like for fish but mimicing light patterns seems utterly important. what is a moon light?
[/quote]

moon lights are blue LED lights....they call them moonlights because the color blue is the only color that refracts threw the water and it makes look like natural moon light at least that's what my oceanography teacher told me and the people at the web site that i got the lights from
[/quote]
cool. thanks


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

cleary said:


> I think its important....I just learned about REM sleep and I don't think the fish don't fall into a deep enough sleep for REM but I do use the day light for about 8 hours on a timer and then the moon lights come on in my tank....my fish seem a lot more relaxed with the moon lights on or in the dark


Yeah, I have no idea what sleep is like for fish but mimicing light patterns seems utterly important. what is a moon light?
[/quote]

moon lights are blue LED lights....they call them moonlights because the color blue is the only color that refracts threw the water and it makes look like natural moon light at least that's what my oceanography teacher told me and the people at the web site that i got the lights from
[/quote]
Are you simulating the patterns of the natural environments of your fish? Without "unatural" interuption and with metal halide and high pressure sodium lights during


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## cleary (Feb 14, 2007)

I dont know about that you would have to ask the fish


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

cleary said:


> I dont know about that you would have to ask the fish


 well, surely you know what I mean; but as you seem to prefer, i will pose the question differently, though interpretation will still be necessary for communication as it always is in communication (as no two words are ever understood by any two persons in exactly the same way ( i even highly doubt that any one understanding remains the same for more than an instant)). If the following question is not good enough, for whatever reason, please let me know, and I will reformulate the question again (i find this sort of interaction self-indulgently amusing).

are you attempting to simulate the lighting patterns of the natural environments of your fishes by using timers and metal halide and high pressure sodium lamps?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Do fishes even get REM sleep? I was looking and I kept finding sites that said that, no, this is not the case...in addition, while they may have activity and rest periods, and while, in some circles, this is enough to be classified as sleep (some state that there must be the ability to have sleep deprivation and rebound sleep) (http://www.npi.ucla.edu/sleepresearch/1519_C091.pdf), they never have something like what we would characterize as human sleep...a complete loss of consciousness. They're still pretty aware of their surroundings.


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## yourockit (Aug 23, 2007)

ChilDawg said:


> Do fishes even get REM sleep? I was looking and I kept finding sites that said that, no, this is not the case...in addition, while they may have activity and rest periods, and while, in some circles, this is enough to be classified as sleep (some state that there must be the ability to have sleep deprivation and rebound sleep) (http://www.npi.ucla.edu/sleepresearch/1519_C091.pdf), they never have something like what we would characterize as human sleep...a complete loss of consciousness. They're still pretty aware of their surroundings.


I have no idea if they get REM sleep. I imagine they do dream, but their dreams are fish dreams, not human dreams, dissimilar and similar to human dreams. My intention in creating this topic is opening a discussion on simulating day/night with the use of indoor lighting and timers. But, I also argue that humans never fully lose consciousness in sleep. Pehaps a defintion of consciousness is needed here before we can continue on this subject. ?


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