# Gold Spilos?



## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

How fast do gold spilos grow out, and about how big do they get?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Well....there are two different variants of S. maculatus...one is small and one gets much larger. They probably grow at about the same rate to get to their max size....which can be said about any serrasalmus. I dont know any serrasalmus that will reach its maximum size any faster or slower then any other serrasalmus while in captivity. 
As far as max size...the smaller variant which has red eyes...grows to about 8"-9". The other variant that has clear eyes grows much larger...but I dont know the max size. Mine is in the 11"...which is about as big as I have seen them.....but it has a much more rhombeus shape then the smaller variant...so they may grow much larger...


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Thanks, I snagged up one of febsalien's babies, and I just wondered how big it will eventually get. Right now, it's in a 29 gallon tank, and sometime in the future, it will be in a 55.

thanks,
Blue


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I dont think the larger variant has been bred in captivity...all the breeding maculatus are the smaller guys.


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Cool, it's a sweet little P. An eager eater, and actually, it chases my hand at just 1.75"s. So, the 29 will be more than enough for a while. I just wondered the growth rate, cause it's like doubled it's size in no time at all.









thanks for the info,
Blue


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

He's looking good man. The parents are about 6 inches.


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## db04ph (Jan 27, 2009)

when u say 2 types of macs u mean 1 is mac and 1 is spilo
i am confused about those 2 species


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

it will get to 5-6" fairly quickly, then really slow down after that.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

db04ph said:


> when u say 2 types of macs u mean 1 is mac and 1 is spilo
> i am confused about those 2 species


There has been some pretty intense discussions about these two species. What is in our tanks is S. maculatus according to science. S. spilopleura is pretty rare in the hobby. A few years ago these fish were known in the hobby as gold spilos....however it turns out that according to science...these fish are actually maculatus. You can read about the naming wars on OPEFE if you wish....it is pretty interesting. Basically...because these fish were known as gold spilos for so long...that label is still used by some hobbyists and dealers. What I was talking about are two variants of S. maculatus...kind of like nattereri and ternetzi. Both are the same species....P. nattereri...but they look very different.


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## AzNP (May 21, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> when u say 2 types of macs u mean 1 is mac and 1 is spilo
> i am confused about those 2 species


There has been some pretty intense discussions about these two species. What is in our tanks is S. maculatus according to science. S. spilopleura is pretty rare in the hobby. A few years ago these fish were known in the hobby as gold spilos....however it turns out that according to science...these fish are actually maculatus. You can read about the naming wars on OPEFE if you wish....it is pretty interesting. Basically...because these fish were known as gold spilos for so long...that label is still used by some hobbyists and dealers. What I was talking about are two variants of S. maculatus...kind of like nattereri and ternetzi. Both are the same species....P. nattereri...but they look very different.
[/quote]

thats some very interesting information


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

It's a good possibility that the smaller ones seem to come from NE brazil and the larger ones from Argentina. I don't think there is specific info. that confirm this, but it is my speculation from what i know from keeping them, and have heard from others.

the ones from brazil, seem to tolerate each other more in aquariums. thus they are much more apt to breed, readily, when they like the conditions. i know that when i kept mine for 10 months or so, and eventually bred them, they were from brazil. i am not sure about where febsalien's are from, though, as he also bred them, and continues to. i do remember his aren't all that large.

over and over, again, i can tell you that people that try and keep them together, and know they are from argentina, seem to fail in their cohabs of this species, s. maculatus.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Do you know if the Brazil has different eyecolor then the Argentina? All of the larger maculatus I have seen have a clear eye.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Do you know if the Brazil has different eyecolor then the Argentina? All of the larger maculatus I have seen have a clear eye.


i beleive that the parents i had, did in fact, have some red in their eyes. i'm not 100% certain though, but almost.. i can ask the breeder i sold the parents to, if you wish...or ask george/SA as he still has some.

another interesting observation i have noted is the differences in aggression when keeping one mac. vs. many. i see plenty of people say their single mac is very aggressive and not too skititsh, whereas mine, where i had 9 at one time together, were still quite skittish around me, even after 8-9 months, and even when they did breed. i don't know for sure though, if the aggression was because they were keeping a single mac. vs. many, or if it was locality. that would be something to be researched, though, if we really wanted to get a better picture of differences in aggression, territoriality, etc..


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## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

Mine are not skittish at all.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

that's cool. sometimes it's a "roll of the dice" to what you get. i dunno if it's the alpha not being skittish, and the rest follow, or what.

i picked up 5 juvi piraya and have them in a 75g for now. what's surprising is they are not too skittish, that is, not nearly as other pygo shoals i have had, which included piraya at one time.


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