# newb here...



## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

i was in the process of setting up a saltwater tank, but it has become too expensive, so i'm going back to freshwater. i have a 75 gal. tank that is drilled with an overflow, and i have a 30 gal. sump. i have always wanted to do a pirhana tank, so i think i might try nd tackle it. i am really new to this, so please dont yell at me for anything, lol 2morrow i'll probally go and get a book on pirhanas, anyway for filtration i was thinking of a Magnum 350 Pro System, for biological i think thats called, and a Fluval Multi-Stage Filter to run carbon and other chemical filtration, also mayb a UV sterilzer. in the main display i was thinking of just mayb an inch or two of gravel, and some driftwood, and mayb a powerhead or two for some water circulation. please tell me about anything else you think is neccisary andany other reccomendations. thanks


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Don't forget a heater, too!

I am not sure that you need to install the UV sterilizer. Everything else seems fine. GL


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

yes of corse the heater, forgot to mention that, but another question, in the long run is this going to be easier than the saltwater, the only thing i can see cost the most money here is feeding, also do you siphon the gravel ever, just curious if they nip at yu, and do i need an air stone?


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

I know that fresh is cheaper than salt. Don't know about easier, but fresh is fairly easy to maintain with good filtration, which you have. Weekly water changes is important. I like to vacuum the gravel at the same time with a siphon. Your filtration will provide enuff O2 for the tank, so an airstone would be more for looks if you want one. P's sometimes like to swim thru the bubbles too!


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

BTW...
WELCOME to PFury!!!


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

thanks for the welcome, lol in saltwater tanks they have whats called a refugium in ur sump where you grow algaes to naturally filter the water, do people d this in pirhana tanks? also how many do you think i should keep in a 75 gal.? i was thinking 3 mayb?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> thanks for the welcome, lol in saltwater tanks they have whats called a refugium in ur sump where you grow algaes to naturally filter the water, do people d this in pirhana tanks? also how many do you think i should keep in a 75 gal.? i was thinking 3 mayb?
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3 is good for a 75 gallon tank. They can stay happy and healthy in that tank for their whole lives. I'm not familiar with saltwater equipment, so I can't answer the other question. I've always stayed away from saltwater tanks for the reason you quit them, because they are expensive, and I personally don't think that they would be that amusing. Freshwater community tanks are just as pretty, but that's my opinion.

I think that an air pump and air stone, or even a flexible bubble wand would be a good choice for your set-up as well. It will help agitate the surface while taking gases from the water as the bubbles rise to the surface, and yes, the fish do like to swim in them, and overall, it insures extra oxygen for just a little bit happier, and healthier tank.

I also am going to have to strongly reccomend a powerhead. They keep your piranha healthy from the exercise of swimming in the current, and it keeps them more active throughout their life if they are introduced to it while young for the most part. I understand that some members have a powerhead that just goes to waste because the piranha don't even swim in it, but the majority of piranha do, and enjoy doing so. A powerhead also helps juveniles grow faster.
~Taylor~


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

the refugium is not nescessary for freshwater tanks.

Depends on the size, but I guess 3-4 p's for life.


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

ok great, thanks for the help guys, i'll keep you posted when i get the tank set-up. and on more quick question, my mom has a koi pond, and i know she has lots of spare bio-balls, do you think i should put these in the drain area of my sump?


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

now instead of themagnum system, i think i might go with an emperor 400, mayb two of them, along with a canister for chemical or mayb a aqua clear for chemical.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> ok great, thanks for the help guys, i'll keep you posted when i get the tank set-up. and on more quick question, my mom has a koi pond, and i know she has lots of spare bio-balls, do you think i should put these in the drain area of my sump?
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I'd be afraid of there being bad pond bacteria, pathogens, etc. on the bio balls, so I'd just buy more. They aren't that expensive, so I'd just buy new. You can also buy ceramic rings, and other bio-media. Take a look at this link, it should help you with learning your filter media if you don't know much about it already:

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F3...a/Shopay00.aspx

It's a business website, but they give good descriptions.








~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

wow, soo many types of filter media, so let me put it this way, is ther any type of filter or filter media that i should stay away from?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> wow, soo many types of filter media, so let me put it this way, is ther any type of filter or filter media that i should stay away from?
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Hmmm...for filters just simply stay away from the off-brand, and I can't think of any media to stay away from... Carbon is used mainly for just taking medications out of the water after the treatments are through, so you don't necessarily need that to run in a filter, unless you have no choice because it is already sewn in the floss of a filter cartridge to go with a filter. All the others are fair game for you to chose, that's just what I can tell ya. That's why I gave you the link, so you can check it out, and see what you wanna get yourself. You can customize your own filtration!!
~Taylor~


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

taylorhedrich said:


> TC3modena said:
> 
> 
> > ok great, thanks for the help guys, i'll keep you posted when i get the tank set-up. and on more quick question, my mom has a koi pond, and i know she has lots of spare bio-balls, do you think i should put these in the drain area of my sump?
> ...


Exactly








You can also use small lava rocks or Lego toy blocks as alternative media if you got any around, instead of spending $.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

TC3modena said:


> now instead of themagnum system, i think i might go with an emperor 400, mayb two of them, along with a canister for chemical or mayb a aqua clear for chemical.
> [snapback]993908[/snapback]​


As for filters, any combo of 2 is enough. 2 emporers is cool, OR 1 emporer and 1 canister filter.

Both canister and power filters provide all 3 filtrations.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Have you considered the Rena Filstar xP3 Cansiter Filter? It is a GREAT filter. I have it on my 130 gallon tank. The water is crystal clear. I've never had the filter actually filter the tank with fish in it, because my tank is empty now, except for a pleco for waste, but many fish hobbyists reccomend it as well, and they also say their water is crystal clear. Just a thought...







If you got this filter, it would be the only filter you'd need on the 75 gallon tank of yours, and it's fairly cheap. I got mine for $99.99 at a local PetsMart. If you wanna find out how I got it so cheap at a PetsMart of all stores, take a look at this topic I started to inform other members:

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...topic=79616&hl=
~Taylor~


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

:nod:


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

can u use a protein skimmer. i have a new skimmer nd it was pretty expensive nd i'd hate to see it go to waste.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> can u use a protein skimmer. i have a new skimmer nd it was pretty expensive nd i'd hate to see it go to waste.
> [snapback]994144[/snapback]​


Yes, you can use it. It's even better that you have a nice one that you don't want to go to waste on hand. I think I'm gonna end up getting one, because ever since I swtiched filters from my TidePool Bio-Wheel filter with the S.O.S. (silent overflow skimmer) and got my Rena Filstar xP3 Cansiter Filter, there has been a nasty film build-up on my water surface. The jet on the out-take pipe of my Filstar breaks the film, but then it is in tiny pieces like fish flakes all over the tank, and it never sinks, so therfore it never gets sucked in the in-take tube. It looks really nasty, so I guess I'm gonna have to invest money in a skimmer as well.
~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

ok thats a relief, i saved up $250 for this skimmer nd i would kill myself if i couldnt use it.


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

now that i think of it, i'm going to buy my epiupment locally, and not order it online becuase if anything ever goes wrong, i'll kno my lfs will have what i need in stock. with that said, i'm going to now be going with a fluval canister, a penguin bio-wheel, and use the protein skimmer i'm taking off from my old saltwater tank. also in the drain part of my sump, i'll throw in some bio-balls.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Hey, since you decided to buy locally, did you notice the link I gave you above in one of my other posts that will save you BIG bucks at PetsMart if you have one near? Believe me, it is WELL worth the time to check it out..








~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

yes there is a petsmart near me, but i dont think worth the trip, i have a pretty good lfs. nd also tell me what you think of my fish list. i was thinking of cycling the tank with a few exodons, then later add a larger pleco, and then later add two baby rbp. i kno ther is a risk of them eating the pleco or exodons, but i'll hope for the best.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> yes there is a petsmart near me, but i dont think worth the trip, i have a pretty good lfs. nd also tell me what you think of my fish list. i was thinking of cycling the tank with a few exodons, then later add a larger pleco, and then later add two baby rbp. i kno ther is a risk of them eating the pleco or exodons, but i'll hope for the best.
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Doesn't sound good. It is VERY likely it is a death waiting to happen. All piranha hobbyists will tell you that it is a very bad idea to have just 2 red bellied piranha in a tank, because they will challenge each other constantly until one of them is dead. You know that you can have more than 2 in that 75 gallon tank for life right? I'd do a shoal. You can house 3 or 4 in that 75 gallon tank for life, and they'd be happy, and healthy.

As for the cycling fish. Sounds good to me, and you said that you already know death is a risk to the exodons, and the plecostomus.

Good luck!! It was great talking to you and helping you along. I hope that if you have any more questions you won't hesitate to ask!! Keep us updated!!








~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

yea ok, i later found out that you cant keep two rbps, so i'll cycle with the exodons, then add a larger pleco, then three baby rbps. thanks for answering all of my questions, and i wi'll keep you guys updated. i'm almost done making my stand and canopy, i'll post pics soon.


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

one more question, whats the difference between red bellied pirhanas and super red bellies?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> one more question, whats the difference between red bellied pirhanas and super red bellies?
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Super Red Bellies are wild caught, and they have brighter red bellies than tank bred red bellies. Supers are usually a little more money, but I wouldn't waste it on them, because some members here have already claimed that they tend to look just like a regular red belly when they reach sexual maturity. Super Red Bellies are also known as Snakeskins.








~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

another question, r pirhanas legal in new york, if not will an online seller send them to new york?


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## king red belly (Apr 13, 2005)

im pretty sure they are legal


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Here is a link of a map to see if your state is legal:

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=13087

I've never ordered online before, and Michigan (where I live) is legal, so I can't say for sure if an online company will sell to an illegal state or not. My guess is that a big company will not, as they need a reputation to keep business going, and I'm sure that they wouldn't want to be known for halping break the law.

Just send an e-mail asking them if they would be willing to or not. It can't hurt.
~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

the map shows that in new york you need a permit, i wonder how i go abaout getting that? any1 here from new york have pirhanas without a permit?


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## cmsCheerFish (Dec 17, 2004)

you will also need some piranhas...


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

cmsCheerFish said:


> you will also need some piranhas...
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lol i kno, i just want to kno how to get a permit or if any1 has them without a permit


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

TC3modena said:


> the map shows that in new york you need a permit, i wonder how i go abaout getting that? any1 here from new york have pirhanas without a permit?
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I wonder if the DNR (Department of Natural Resources) would be tied in with this. Is there any way you could contact the DNR in your area and ask them about it?
~Taylor~


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

anyone ever use live freshwater substrate? im looking in pet solutions magazine(pg. 113 in the early summer 2005 cataloge) and they have an eco-complete live freshwater substrate by Carib Sea. it says it dosnt effect the pH so it shouldnt be bad. just wanted to kno if any1 has ever used it b4?


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

^^^^ any1? i'll probally just end up using some of that planted aquarium fertilzer gravel stuff.


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## james__12345 (Mar 25, 2005)

Judazzz Apr 3 2005, 01:07 PM Post #10

The Flying Dutchman

Group: Administrator
Posts: 17,275
Joined: 13-January 03
From: The Netherworld
Member No.: 199

QUOTE(james__12345 @ Apr 3 2005, 07:57 PM)
Well theres one aspect of this discussion that hasnt been covered, what is the required footprint per p?

Too broad to make general statements: it heavily depends on the size of the fish, the amount of fish, what species etc.

Below is what I think should be the minimum recommended sizes: it's just my personal opinion, though, not science...

Absolute maximum size for: 
- the smallest Serra-species (no larger than 7"), such as Medinai, Sanchezi, Irritans - 40x16"
- medium-sized species (up to 10"), such as Spilo's, Brandtii, Compressus, Maculatus - 48x18"
- large species (Rhom, Manny, Elongatus [not big, but fast and active swimmer]): 60x20" (very large fish at least 24" of tank depth)

For a shoal of 3 Pygo's: 48x18x20"
An extra 4-6" of tank length per extra fish, for 6 or more adult Pygo's a tank depth of more than 20".

im not trying to dispute anyone else but i think this is a pretty good guidline of how many your tank can handle


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## TC3modena (Apr 23, 2005)

that last post has me







, r u saying that i can have 3 red bellies and a common pleco for life.


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## james__12345 (Mar 25, 2005)

im just saying you can check the size of your tank to that formula if you want a different approach to being sure how many p's you can have. im not saying its perfect but a second opinion cant be a bad thing


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