# Is it ok to vacuum the gravel every day?



## neongreen (Apr 12, 2004)

Is this ok to do?

My 55 gallon gets alot of crap on the bottom, but maybe its just an illusion (I have black sand and crap stands out).

Is it ok to vaccum everyday? This would mean about a 10-4 gallon water change.If I do this should I still do my weekly 1/4th water change?

And I do add water conditioner each time, Amquel+.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

It's not only ok, it's my opinion that frequent small water changes are actually better since it lets you keep your gravel nice and clean


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

I dont think it will harm your fish as long as you are doing very small water changes everyday.


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

i had the same problem with my 29g with sand, the tank was too high, and the filter not enough current making power. just get a powerhead. it should solve most of your problems.


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

Its perfectly fine. If you wanted to change 90% of the water every day, that would be even more fine.
This would actually keep the tank more stable than anything else as the water would not have time to be degraded to any great extent. A lot of Discus breeders, especially the larger ones, do 50% water changes twice a day every day. This is actually the best possible option, breeding Discus or not.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I do 2 gallons a day in my 30. My water stays at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and about 20 nitrates. I am thinking of upping it to about 4 gallons a day to get the trates down. 2 in the morning, and 2 in the evening.

I am a water quality freak!


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

DonD said:


> Its perfectly fine. If you wanted to change 90% of the water every day, that would be even more fine.
> This would actually keep the tank more stable than anything else as the water would not have time to be degraded to any great extent. A lot of Discus breeders, especially the larger ones, do 50% water changes twice a day every day. This is actually the best possible option, breeding Discus or not.


 dont be stupid, most of us know you cant do a 90% water change, it is such a dramatich change that it sends the fish into shock and most cases death. 50% is the absolute max :nod:


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

Stop and think before you start calling people stupid. If you are changing 90% of the water every day, what is going to change? The pH in the tank is going to drop in 24 hours???? the KH is going to drop in 24 hours??? Just what is going to change in 24 hours that is going to shock the fish eh?
The answer is NOTHING AT ALL.
Biological process is not going to change the water parameters any great or significant amount in 24 hours. Large frequent and consistent water changes PREVENT fluctuations.
What shocks fish is NOT doing water changes for extended periods of time then jumping in and changing out large quantities all of a sudden. That is because the KH and pH in a tank where the water has not been changed will drop. The nitrates will also rise, which they do not do the more the water is changed.


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## stinkyfish (Jan 21, 2004)

illnino said:


> DonD said:
> 
> 
> > Its perfectly fine. If you wanted to change 90% of the water every day, that would be even more fine.
> ...


 your wayyy in over your head on this one! your just a kid calling one of the most knowledgable fish keepers on this board stupid?? oh my


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## MexicanRacoon (Jul 20, 2004)

if you can change 90% of your water, why do you even have to cycle in the first place? I'm not disputing the point, just curious.

Won't you lose the beneficial bacteria every time do this?

Do you have to treat the water before you refill the tank?

I can't do daily changes anyways, but i still wonder.


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

Mexican, no you do not lose the bacteria. The nitrifying bacteria are not free floating. They attatch to the surfaces in the tank and filters. Changing the water is not going to do anything to them.
Of course you would need to treat the water if it contains chlorine or the like.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ummm and you also have to watch the pH, temp, hardness etc. Changing that much water at one time, not watching your parameters, can have a negative impact on your fish and the bacteria. That is why whenever you bring gravel from one tank to another to seed it for cycling, you should acclimate it just like a fish.

Unless you are a pro, stick to 20% or less daily changes.


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## redbellyjx © (Jan 26, 2004)

doing a 5 gallon water change every day would be BETTER if anything, i think, than say 30% weekly changes. less chance to f*ck with the parameters. if you do a small water change every day, thats one step closer to having one of those trickle systems that Knifeman describes in his article on growing large rhoms. I suspect small 5% daily changes should keep nitrate levels damn near 0.


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## brianp (Jun 11, 2004)

i agree with illnino. 5% every day is the same as 35% a week, except less stressful on the fish. a 90% water change is f'in crazy.


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

Again, what parameters are going to change in 24 hours? 
If your pH today is 7.5, are you trying to tell me it is going to be 7.0 tomorrow????
If your KH is 12 dKH you are saying that it is going to be 5 dKH tomorrow????????
If the water is pH 7.5, 12 dKH, and I replace it every day with water that is the same, what is going to stress the fish?
If you replace the water before it has a chance to change, then there is no shock. 
The concept is a fairly simple one guys.
As I said before, it is standard operating procedure for a lot of breeders to do 50% changes twice a day.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ok, if you argue with this guy you are just plain retarded.

_DonH said:_


> Got your PM, but thought I would address it here instead...
> 
> As far as water changes go, there is no solid rule that states how much you need to do or overdo it. The issue is more of consistency... If you can change 10% of the water everyday, your fish will benefit from it. If you can somehow add a drip system to your tank, that would be even better. DonD brought up an good point in another thread regarding water changes. There are discus breeders that practice massive daily water change to acheive phenomenal growth in their fry. The reason why I don't recommend this to everyday hobbiests is because these professionals know EXACTLY what water parameters they are dealing with to avoid any shock/stress to their fish (especially fry). That's why it's safer to do more small volume water changes. If I had the time and the energy, I would do 20% water changes daily to all my tanks, but I rather be consistent with weekly water change than get burnt out and not enjoy the hobby.
> 
> As long as your nitrates stay below 20 ppm, I don't see a problem with your water quality.


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## stinkyfish (Jan 21, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> Ok, if you argue with this guy you are just plain retarded.
> 
> _DonH said:_
> 
> ...


why did you post that quote???? do you think anywhere in there supports your idea that 90 percent water changes is a bad thing? why don't you read donH's post and realize he says he does not reccomend 90 percent changes for the everyday hobbiests but nowhere does it say it is a bad thing.

I bet donD has more years of experience in fish keeping than you have in total years lived . your really embarrassing and i cant stand people like you who act so ignorant and childish to one of the few board members who can truly bring knowledge to the hobby. im surprised dond even stays on the board to post when he has to deal with immature brats like you.


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

stinky, thanks for the support, but I took doctors post to be a retraction of his earlier statements due to Don H's comments.
It seems to me that those who called me stupid and what not were showing an unfortunate lack of common sense and or a rush to judgement. So let me fill in the blanks on my previous statements that I THOUGHT common sense would dictate. The common sense issues I left I will do in italics.
Doing large scale daily water changes, even up to a 100% change, are actually the best thing you can do. _Is this always practical or easy? No._ If you can do it however, this will prevent natural process from having a chance to alter the water chemistry to any great degree.
_It pretty much goes without saying that the replacement water needs to be of the same values as the tank water, and treatment for chlorine or the like must be done as well._


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

In no way did I mention that DonD was incorrect... Large water changes are sometimes used to trigger breeding in many of the hard to breed species. I've seen pictures of Asian discus breeders that drain their tanks to the point where the fish are laying sideways and then fill it back up again. DAILY!!!

If you are confident in your abilities to match incoming water parameters to the current ones in your tank, then there should not be a problem with doing large water changes.

BTW, I think we can have an intelligent discussion without resorting to name calling. Thanks...


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

ok, you all can go ahead and do a 90% water changes. there is also the risk of the temp being a little diff and sending them into shock. also a huge waste of dechlorinator.

just kill all of your fish. and you can go calling me a kid that knows nothing about fish. i have 5 aquariums and the only fish that have ever died were either feeders or my piranha that got murdered by his friends. i would like to see how well your fish do with 90% water changes.

there should be a certian smiley here with two fingers, but i will control myself.


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## S. Nattereri (May 4, 2004)

I gravel vac. my 125 Gallon once a week, the whole tank, by the time Its done I have removed about 25% to 30% water, then I feel it back up w/ stress coat of course. All my fish are healthy as hell and got big, so fast. Wounded fish also heals, very fast w/ out infection. 
If you have sand, get power head, Ive heard they work good, especially for sand, push all the food to the end of the tank for easier cleaning. I have one AC802 on the way from biglas.








I say once a week gravel vac is good enough. But I wont go past 40% water change though. Theres too much ammonia, or other chemicals in the water before it gets fully cycled through the filters, etc.. This is my own opinion. 
Just my 2c


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Hey stinkyfish,







. I never said DonD didn't know what he was doing, I never said he was a regular hobbyist, I never said that a 90% water change was bad.

What I was reitterating was, that a 90% water change is NOT FOR the average hobbyist.

Stinkyfish, if you would get your head out of your ass, you will see that. If you had read the earlier posts, you would have seen that maybe that comment was nor for DonD at all. Read my earlier post:

_Unless you are a pro, stick to 20% or less daily changes. _

Before you jump my sh*t, know WTF you are talking about.

DonD, I never questioned your abilities, I was pointing out to some other members that although a 90% can safely be done, you really gotta be someone that knows whats up before you insist on doing it everyday.


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## joefromcanada (Apr 16, 2004)

ill just stick to my 30% 2x a week, it keeps my nitrates around 5ppm.


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

I dont think it is a good idea to be advising the average fish keeper to be doing 90% ( or 100% for that matter) water changes a day. It is impractical, and can be very dangerous to a fish if it isnt done perfectly. A once a week water change of 30% or so is more than enough to keep fish healthy and happy, IMO.


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## stinkyfish (Jan 21, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> Hey stinkyfish,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 now that you find out who donD is you take back your words. a few posts earlier you were arguing with him!


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## stinkyfish (Jan 21, 2004)

mori0174 said:


> I dont think it is a good idea to be advising the average fish keeper to be doing 90% ( or 100% for that matter) water changes a day.


 who here is reccomending it?? donD just pointed out the fact that it can be safely done. Read the posts, I don't think he told anyone to do it.


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## stinkyfish (Jan 21, 2004)

illnino said:


> ok, you all can go ahead and do a 90% water changes. there is also the risk of the temp being a little diff and sending them into shock. also a huge waste of dechlorinator.
> 
> just kill all of your fish. and you can go calling me a kid that knows nothing about fish. i have 5 aquariums and the only fish that have ever died were either feeders or my piranha that got murdered by his friends. i would like to see how well your fish do with 90% water changes.
> 
> there should be a certian smiley here with two fingers, but i will control myself.


 why do u think i do 90 percent water changes?? your reading skills aren't very impressive. donD just made a point that it is possible to do 90 percent water changes daily. this is information that is valuable because ignorant people like you believe sudden death will occur to any water change over 50 percent.

The majority of you people are missing the point. IF done properly large water changes daily can be a good thing. IM NOT saying everyone should do it but its just a fact.

I don't see why you guys assume donD was reccomeding it or anything like that. Hell i don't think he even does it himself! you guys need to read and use a little bit of sense.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

I think this thread has run its course...

Bottom line: There are many ways to raise fish (correctly, and many times incorrectly). If you find what works for you, and your fish are healthy and happy, stick with it.


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