# What To Use For Lowering Ph



## Redruckus

i was wondering what every one uses to drop the pH in the tank.. i already have a fair bit of wood but it is still over 7 i can only get peat in a 50lb cube i was thinking is ther any kind of tea i could use because i know tea has tannins in it but i also know caffeen is bad for fish any sudgestions would be great


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## MPG

Order the peat online?


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## Da' Manster!

Redruckus,
It's really not necessary to lower pH level as pertains to piranha keeping...If you are in the 7.0 - 8.0 range, you'll be OK...A steady pH is more important and beneficial for your piranha than a flucuation...As long as your tank is cycled, your fish will acclimate accordingly...


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## Redruckus

its for both of my tanks my piranhas im not worried about its my amazon/blackwater comunity tank i have.. i recently re-set it up and all the fish look sickly and half the activity and colour they use to have its been about 2 months and i was hoping the wood was goin to drop the ph but it hasnt....i also never order anything online


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## PhantastickFish

check this out click me.

yo ucan order fluval peat from big als, foster and smith, etc.


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## Redruckus

phan i like that idea but i dont want to have to buy anything online and get a whole new device just to lower my ph also he said he used peat the local garden store only sells peat by the 25-50lb cube wayy more the i will ever use and i dont have a credit card so online shopping does not work


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## Piranha_man

The peat.
Ah yes, the peat!









My peatless spilo tank has a pH of 7.6, whereas my pygo tank (with peat reactor) has a pH reading of less than 6.


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## Redruckus

im looking for some thing that IS NOT PEAT I CANOT BUY SMALL AMOUNTS OF PEAT I AM LOOKING FOR OPTIONS OTHER THEN PEAT...I did some reaserch on indian almond leaves they suposably work also i read that oak leaves just befor they fall off the tree or a large mature leaf dried out can be used instead of indian almond leaves..once again I DO NOT WANT TO USE PEAT


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## TheCableGuy

I heard peat was really good for lowering your PH.


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## Piranha_man

Sorry for MENTIONING THE PEAT.


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## Redruckus

well guys and galls


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## TheCableGuy




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## PhantastickFish

yea jesus. sorry for trying to help.









nice ms paint art though.

waaaaaiiiitttttt a minute. im not so sure you drew that yourself.....


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## Redruckus

> waaaaaiiiitttttt a minute. im not so sure you drew that yourself.....


shure i did i also drew this super accurate picture of my self check it out


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## Redruckus

but in all seriousness what is something that isnt peat that i could use to lower my ph


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## Guest

Redruckus said:


> but in all seriousness what is something that isnt peat that i could use to lower my ph


Ph down by API, but you'll have to level out every time you do a water change. I've used it before and it does work, but it's a pain measuring exactly how much water your changing and how much your putting in to ensure you get equal PH. But IMO I would just go with peat.


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## Ja'eh

MPG said:


> Order the peat online?


Or buy the Laguna peat granules for ponds from Big Al's, it works just as good as anything that you can order online plus it also helps to prevent fungal infections too.


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## Piranha_man

^^ For some reason I get the feeling he doesn't wanna use peat.

(I dunno... just a 'vibe' I'm getting...)


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## Redruckus

i live in remote northern ontario canada.. my neerest lfs is 2 hours away i make a trip up once a month to get food bloodworm/cheep cuts of lean meat...also Pranha_man I think you might have something with that vibe, now if only every one else could get on the same wave length i could finaly get an answer


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## PhantastickFish

ya guys lets get with the program. no peat. homie do roll with online shopping.


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## Guest

Could use RO/DI water to lower PH, mixed with tap water. Though I would still just buy the peat.


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## Piranha_man

Traveller said:


> Could use RO/DI water to lower PH, mixed with tap water. Though I would still just buy the peat.


Yeah, not to keep going about the peat thing, but it does way more than just lower pH.
It adds nutrients to the water and helps replicate their natural habitat better than anything else I know.

But... he doesn't wanna use it for some reason, so forget I said anything.


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## Guest

Piranha_man said:


> Could use RO/DI water to lower PH, mixed with tap water. Though I would still just buy the peat.


Yeah, not to keep going about the *peat* thing, but it does way more than just lower pH.
It adds nutrients to the water and helps replicate their natural habitat better than anything else I know.

But... he doesn't wanna use it for some reason, so forget I said anything.








[/quote]

Peat would definitely be the best option and would add tannins to the water to give the best biotope for the fish.

Never thought peat could be so funny . . . . . . .


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## Redruckus

i was reading the indian almond leaves do the same thing as peat and it also can be used as decoration i think it would look cool to have a few leaves on the bottom of the tank would defenetly give a more natural bottom to the tank cuz last time i checked the amazon river had more then a few leaves fall into it every year...i did read that dried oak leaves can be used instead of indian almond because the contain no harmful chemicals and have very close "make ups" like how the leaf will act in water and the cell structure and all the science mumbo jumbo thoughts...on a side note PEAT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION


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## Redruckus

also traveller


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## Guest

Redruckus said:


> i was reading the indian almond leaves do the same thing as peat and it also can be used as decoration i think it would look cool to have a few leaves on the bottom of the tank would defenetly give a more natural bottom to the tank cuz last time i checked the amazon river had more then a few leaves fall into it every year...i did read that dried oak leaves can be used instead of indian almond because the contain no harmful chemicals and have very close "make ups" like how the leaf will act in water and the cell structure and all the science mumbo jumbo thoughts...on a side note PEAT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION


I've never tried using leaves before to lower pH, so have no idea how many you would need to lower it or even if they would significantly lower it and stabilize it. I do know that you need to boil your leaves first to ensure they sink and kill the unwanted stuff. You'd also need to change them every so often to ensure they carry on leaking tannins. I think leaves are more of a decoration item then an actual solution to a pH issue.
Also if you don't mind me asking Redruckus, why you hating on peat?


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## Piranha_man

Traveller said:


> i was reading the indian almond leaves do the same thing as peat and it also can be used as decoration i think it would look cool to have a few leaves on the bottom of the tank would defenetly give a more natural bottom to the tank cuz last time i checked the amazon river had more then a few leaves fall into it every year...i did read that dried oak leaves can be used instead of indian almond because the contain no harmful chemicals and have very close "make ups" like how the leaf will act in water and the cell structure and all the science mumbo jumbo thoughts...on a side note PEAT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION


I've never tried using leaves before to lower pH, so have no idea how many you would need to lower it or even if they would significantly lower it and stabilize it. I do know that you need to boil your leaves first to ensure they sink and kill the unwanted stuff. You'd also need to change them every so often to ensure they carry on leaking tannins. I think leaves are more of a decoration item then an actual solution to a pH issue.
Also if you don't mind me asking Redruckus, why you hating on *peat*?
[/quote]

Holy sh*t man... I can't believe you said the "P-word."


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## Redruckus

I JUST DONT WHAT TO USE







AHHHHHH.....but seriously i can only buy it in 25-50lb blocks and the pet stores dont carry aqarium grade...you know







... whoa twice that was odd ...any way i was reading testemonials about the leaves they say as long as they are in the tank they work to lower ph by very slowly decomposing thats what tannis come from is the decomposing plant matter just some plants are alot safer then others indian almond leaves being the most safe but the decorative element is a plus..puting them in the oven at 230F 110C for 5-10 mins will kill any dangerous things on the leaves but not burn them, boiling them will get rid most of the tannis you want.. if no one has any advice on this i guess its going to be a experement in my piranha tank first, any health problems and they are out but those are the leaves beta fish breeders use to get the ph down in a small beta tanks so i am shure 3 or 4 in a big tank would drop the ph just fine.....







nope still wont let me say it i like how that works


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

Before trying to lower your pH with driftwood, leaves, peat, etc... you should find out what your kh is, that will tell you the buffering capacity of your water and give you an idea of how many leaves or how much driftwood or peat you'll need to add to get the desired effect.

Leaves can work, I use oak leaves in my blackwater tank but they are mainly for decoration, the actual blackwater effect comes from a blackwater extract I make from peat moss. To sterilize the leaves and to get the tannins going quickly, you can boil them and dump the water and leaves directly into the tank, but make sure you use RO water to boil if you want it to have any effect on your tank's pH. Realistically, it's gonna take a ton of leaves to get the desired effect and they will have to be replaced often.

As much as you don't want to use peat moss, it really is the best option for what you are trying to attain -- even a huge bale can be purchased for a few bucks and will last a long time. I buy the huge bales and store it in a rubbermaid container -- if you don't want that much peat laying around, just take a few pounds and dump the rest. You don't need to purchase special aquarium peat either, any bale of 100% peat with no added fertilizers from Home Depot or a hardware or landscaping supply place will do.


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## Redruckus

well at least you solved my oak leaf delema do you dry them or just put them in the tank green right off the tree


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

Definitely not green off the tree, you want to use brown leaves that are on the ground


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## Redruckus

could you take one of the older large green ones and let it dry out say above a heater or in the oven on very low?


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## Guest

Redruckus said:


> could you take one of the older large green ones and let it dry out say above a heater or in the oven on very low?


From what I've read on various planted aquarium forums and biotope projects, you need leaves that have just fallen from the tree. Pale brown leaves as completely dried out and dark brown leaves have already decomposed far enough to provide any real benefits to the tank, not to mention all the microscopic creepy crawlies they've picked up during this process. I do believe Joedizzle has the correct info, boil with RO/DI, let the water cool, then put it in the tank. I also read somewhere that this effect is short lived due to filtration that will remove the tannins.
Honestly though, just buy the peat it'll save you a lot of time, keep what you need and dump the rest. Use it in the garden or where ever, then if you want, try selling it on after you've taken what you need for upkeep & maintenance.


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## Redruckus

well i know the larger leaves are better because they have less moisture in them and if i put them over a heater for a week or so they would turn brown and dry out with out as many bugs and what not they would pick up if they just fell off the tree but i might buy some indian almond leaves from the store they come in bags of 10 so it would last untill summer/fall when i can get oak leaves because last time i checked you cant find leaves any where in canada untill at least the end of may


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## CLUSTER ONE

I'd just get peat as it is super cheap and even if you don't use it all you can just give some away or store what you want then throw the rest outside as I bought 2.2cubic feet I beleive for 5$. It is not difficut to store a bit in some rubbermaid either. You would also need a filter bag to hold it. If you really are against peat you could try some chemical from a lfs but it will be more of a pain as you frequently have to dose it and test the pH. Even for peat you should try callign the hardware or lfs as they may be able to get it in smaller bags if you ask. Next tiem you are up there I would just see what they can order you as just becasue they stock huge bags does not mean they can't get smaller bags.

Like said dried oak leaves will work well though you will have to clean them well before use.

Or ... get this... just leave the pH alone and don't do anything. Alot of people in ontario have pH above 7 and it is fine. The fish will adjust


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## Redruckus

its not my piranhas i am worried about...its my black water tank they already have lost alot of colour and are half as active because they were set up for 2 years in a 6.4 steady ph then the shock of shifting to 7.6 ish they seem very stressed even after a month..i do have some very ph sensitive tetras and barbs and a few loaches that every one i talked to says they do best at 6.2 and seem very sickly at $25 each i dont want to loose them. all the stores in my area only sell peat in 2'x2' cubes and when it unpacked it fills a large wheel barow thats the only reason i dont want to buy it that and its a mess if the mesh bag i would use or nylon breaks down and busts and i get loose peat all over my tank my filter pump is strong with ther isnt anything to slow it down stuff on the intake it over flows over the filter media alot so it wouls spread every were


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

So if you had them in a steady pH of 6.4 for 2 years, what were you doing before to lower it and keep it steady?


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## Redruckus

i was on well water that had ph 6.6 and the wood got it down to 6.4 after the first 6 months i only had to do a gravel vac once every 2 months because the bio filter was soo good...i didnt have and chlorine/cholormine in the water that would kill a little bit of the bio filter every time so it was very strong...also i didnt pre soak my wood i just put it in the tank and let the tannis leach as it wanted to.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

What species of fish do you have in that tank?


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## Redruckus

i have 6 brown pencil fish(suprised they are still alive), 5 marble hatchet fish(so pale they look like silver hatchet fish), 4 Cochu's blue tetras, 3 large red line rasboras, 3 checkered barbs, 3 fork tail loaches, and 3 polka dot loaches, 2 angels(not realy worried about them), 2 african butterfly fish, and a colourfull killifish. the tank is well planted and has no problems with water peramiters...except ph


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## rchan11

Rocks and substrate in your tank could raise your ph. RO/DI is neutral, but PH will eventually rise in your tank. I use a constant CO2 flow to lower my PH.


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## Redruckus

i dont have any rocks that i know of and CO2 is a litte to high tech and costly i dont want to suffocate my fish either if i put to much CO2 in the tank also i wouldnt want to waste CO2 if i dont have a proper difuser its like $15 for a 9oz bottle that i use for my paint ball gun im prity shure all CO2 is the same.


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## rchan11

I bought 2 used complete co2 units online for $75 ea. The refill for a 5 lb bottle is $10 and good for couple of yrs. For my 266g tank, I use 1 bubble per second with an air pump to supplement oxygen. With CO2, my PH is 6.8 and without is 8.0. A diffuser online is less than $10.


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## Redruckus

ya thats too complex ...running an air pump and using a light dose of fertalizer is high tec for me


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## knivesv

rchan11 said:


> I bought 2 used complete co2 units online for $75 ea. The refill for a 5 lb bottle is $10 and good for couple of yrs. For my 266g tank, I use 1 bubble per second with an air pump to supplement oxygen. With CO2, my PH is 6.8 and without is 8.0. A diffuser online is less than $10.


rchan11, can you please go into detail on how you set this up? I'm interested in this setup in my 120g tank. Please recommend brand and links. Thank you!


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## CLUSTER ONE

You set it up like any plant co2 tank though chances are your pH would be suitable as it is without needing to alter it any.


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## zackmorrisl

how come you cant use well water anymore?


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## Guest

Best thing to invest in is a pH controller along with a good regulator and quality solenoid if all you want is CO2 to drop the pH. This way you can keep a stable pH without having to worry about swings caused by anything added to the tank.


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