# Proof Liberalism is the downfall of morals



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Link

One of the reasons I'm conservative is that I believe that our society is slowly getting worse each year. We've accepted ideas as "progressive" and called them "equal rights" to give them a softer tone. Homosexuality is normal now, doing drugs is normal and there's many that want to legalize it and tax drug use. We're in a constant struggle to see if killing babies is right. Divorce is rampant, even easy. Sex in the media is becoming more graphic and accepted. We rationalize murder and instead of punishing them, we blame it on their childhood or circumstances as if they could not control it. Religion is now considered narrow-minded, extreme, and irrational. People are more selfish, materialistic, and greedy. Instead of rewarding hard work, we're trying to tax hard workers and give to the "lazy" or less fortunate. Now, the most liberal state in the Union is taking another step towards Sodom and Gomorrah.


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Yeah, I was sooo angry when they ended Prohibition. Legalizing and taxing the use of alcohol was the beginning of the moral decay in this country. 
And now they want to decriminalize prostitution in San Francisco when its legal in Nevada?!?!? That is a bunch of crap!!!!!


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

So I guess you done like NV do you?

What's wrong with two adults consenting to sex for money.

Would you rather have adults raping other adults? Or childern?


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Why would the addicts be outside YOUR door if you don't take part in such immoral activities ? Alcohol is legal, are there winos and other drunks outside your door ? Strip clubs are legal, is there one next to your house ? And if so, are you in favor of prohibiting alcohol and strip clubs ?

Now I'll remember that, next time a conservative gets on their soap box with the ever-so-popular "Yep, the stupid liberals think the government is the answer to everything !"


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

diddye said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

How does two adults doing this effect you?
Or how does someone doing drugs effect you?

Who is talking about building a brothel next to your house?
If I am right, stripper joints have to meet zoning in order for them to be built and most stripper bars I know about are no were near homes.

And go check your local market, they sell smokes and alcohol right in front of kids. 
Heck, beer commercials are always on and you dont think alcohol is dangerous?


----------



## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

How does two adults doing this effect you?
Or how does someone doing drugs effect you?

Who is talking about building a brothel next to your house?
If I am right, stripper joints have to meet zoning in order for them to be built and most stripper bars I know about are no were near homes.

And go check your local market, they sell smokes and alcohol right in front of kids. 
Heck, beer commercials are always on and you dont think alcohol is dangerous?
[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better...

If you dont want it near your house, don't buy a house near such things...

I just bought my first house. I picked one in a quiet neighborhood across the street from a great school. It was more expensive and smaller than the one next door to a dive bar that I was looking at...

I don't want ANYONE government or otherwise dictating "Morals" to me.

I am an adult taxpaying law abiding citizen and make my own decisions!!!


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2008)

diddye said:


> Link
> 
> One of the reasons I'm conservative is that I believe that our society is slowly getting worse each year. We've accepted ideas as "progressive" and called them "equal rights" to give them a softer tone. Homosexuality is normal now, doing drugs is normal and there's many that want to legalize it and tax drug use. We're in a constant struggle to see if killing babies is right. Divorce is rampant, even easy. Sex in the media is becoming more graphic and accepted. We rationalize murder and instead of punishing them, we blame it on their childhood or circumstances as if they could not control it. Religion is now considered narrow-minded, extreme, and irrational. People are more selfish, materialistic, and greedy. Instead of rewarding hard work, we're trying to tax hard workers and give to the "lazy" or less fortunate. Now, the most liberal state in the Union is taking another step towards Sodom and Gomorrah.


Why is prostitution immoral? Morality is completely subjective.
If a consenting adult chooses to make a living performing sexual acts for money, who is being harmed?

Just because one finds the idea of sex-for-money repulsive, doesn't mean it's immoral. Prostitution is legal in several countires in Europe and society seems to be holding together quite well.

You are displaying the same lopsided view of morality towards homosexuality and divorce. Would the better alternative be for couples to remain miserable in bad marriages and for gay people to be shamed into remaining in the'closet' their whole lives? Who would benefit from this?


----------



## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

they should legalize it everywhere. i think we are all independent, mature-thinking adults.


----------



## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

Doktordet said:


> they should legalize it everywhere. i think we are all independent, *mature*-*thinking adults.*


Have you read this forum lately?


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)




----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Llatus, way to constructively add to the discussion in hand, as usual

BTW, my "moral relativity gray area" is waaay larger than shown in your pic


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

diddye said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

maybe you shouldnt live in such a shitty neighborhood.

but seriously, look at what a terrible shitty messed up society they have in the nietherlands.. awful dreadful place...

the problems here are soo complex..

is legal prostitution really more dangerous then legal guns alchool or cigerettes? those three things probablt kill more people then hookers.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

You guys are exactly what I'm talking about. Liberalism makes people more accepting of immoral acts. For sadboy, bake etc who said "dont live near them", prostitution is currently illegal in SF. So....do you advocate those people moving out because some hooker started working their corner? Would you like your kids influenced by them?

Bullsnake:

"Would the better alternative be for couples to remain miserable in bad marriages and for gay people to be shamed into remaining in the'closet' their whole lives?"

Bad marriages-Yes, they should stay in bad marriages unless it involves cheating, abuse or anything out of the ordinary especially if it involves a kid. They took a vow and should keep it through better or worse.

Gay-What they do in their private lives is up to them, but don't flaunt it in my face. I don't want my kids watching MTV and their gay dating shows. I remember 10 years ago Dawson's creek made big news for being the first show to feature 2 guys kissing. Now, its on everyday.



nismo driver said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

maybe you shouldnt live in such a shitty neighborhood.

but seriously, look at what a terrible shitty messed up society they have in the nietherlands.. awful dreadful place...

the problems here are soo complex..

is legal prostitution really more dangerous then legal guns alchool or cigerettes? those three things probablt kill more people then hookers.
[/quote]

So, basically, you're agreeing that such a neighborhood is "shitty". Thanks!


----------



## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

diddye said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Personal freedom is when someone else (YOU) don't tell ME what is " right or wrong".


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

sadboy said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Personal freedom is when someone else (YOU) don't tell ME what is " right or wrong".
[/quote]

Ah, I get it. You're an anarchist. Basically, our country should have no laws.

*Regardless of how you feel politically, how many here don't see these changes are a degradation of our morals? Seriously. Here's a litmus test. Would you feel comfortable telling your wife, mother, father, child that you are going to the whorehouse as casually as going to the supermarket?


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye, why don't you answer my questions ?

Again - Alcohol is legal, are there winos and other drunks outside your door ? Strip clubs are legal, is there one next to your house ? And if so, are you in favor of prohibiting alcohol and strip clubs ?

I think junk food is harmful for our society, I doubt many would disagree. My morals tell me it's destructive for anyone to eat sugar and fat. Would you be in favor of outlawing all fast food restaurants and twinkies ? If you live next door to McDonalds, would your kids not be in danger of being exposed to an element of our society that allows and promotes obesity ?


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> diddye, why don't you answer my questions ?
> 
> Again - Alcohol is legal, are there winos and other drunks outside your door ? Strip clubs are legal, is there one next to your house ? And if so, are you in favor of prohibiting alcohol and strip clubs ?
> 
> I think junk food is harmful for our society, I doubt many would disagree. My morals tell me it's destructive for anyone to eat sugar and fat. Would you be in favor of outlawing all fast food restaurants and twinkies ? If you live next door to McDonalds, would your kids not be in danger of being exposed to an element of our society that allows and promotes obesity ?


Sorry, too many people jumping at me to answer all the questions.

-I luckily don't have drunks and strip clubs at my home yet, but I've slowly noticed my neighborhood getting worse(ie more crime etc). Again, drinking alcohol isn't wrong. Its the over consumption that leads to problems. As far as sugar and fat, there is nothing wrong with eating that if its done in moderation. It all comes down to if a person abuses their "freedom". I don't want my taxes to pay for the healthcare of a person who has no self-control and eats themselves to death. People are affected by a person who doesn't take care of themselves such as their kids or other family members. Jewelz, are you advocating legalizing prostitution?

BTW guys, this thread is about MORALS, not RIGHTS. Keep that in mind when you're replying.


----------



## Guest (Oct 22, 2008)

diddye said:


> Bullsnake:
> 
> "Would the better alternative be for couples to remain miserable in bad marriages and for gay people to be shamed into remaining in the'closet' their whole lives?"
> 
> ...


Diddeye, I believe your ideology is immoral and unethical because you want to do people harm.

People should remain miserable in failed marriages? A gay person's lifestyle is inferior, if not inherently perverse and deviant, and should be hidden from society at large?

These ideas are evil. They bring nothing to society but misery, shame, and hate.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

diddy basically by your standards we should be reverting back to lving in the 1800's and start having witch hunts again.

i do agree that people should be more responsable about entering into a marrage and having kids. and people should have "morals" maybe that would prevent many of the problems in this country along with fixing education reducing the cost of living so parents can afford to have more time to be responsable parents ect ect ect but as was stated you talk about freedom ect but you also want make everyone live by your standards

if someone makes a mistakes and wants to get divorced and assume the legal penalties then thats up to them. if they get pregnanat and know they are ready for a kid then they should be able to get a divorce, news flash there is no shortage of people on the planet and more then enough messed up ones from crappy parenting.

are the morals of the catholic church of not promoting use of condoms really helping society?

i can think of a few other groups that will not accept the reality of modern society..

lets see

the taliban

uh who else is conservatives? the iranians.

i mean those are too fantastics groups. go conservatism and enforcing morals... mothing like a progressive culture that clings to midevil beliefes.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> diddye, why don't you answer my questions ?
> 
> Again - Alcohol is legal, are there winos and other drunks outside your door ? Strip clubs are legal, is there one next to your house ? And if so, are you in favor of prohibiting alcohol and strip clubs ?
> 
> I think junk food is harmful for our society, I doubt many would disagree. My morals tell me it's destructive for anyone to eat sugar and fat. Would you be in favor of outlawing all fast food restaurants and twinkies ? If you live next door to McDonalds, would your kids not be in danger of being exposed to an element of our society that allows and promotes obesity ?


Sorry, too many people jumping at me to answer all the questions.

-I luckily don't have drunks and strip clubs at my home yet, but I've slowly noticed my neighborhood getting worse(ie more crime etc). Again, drinking alcohol isn't wrong. Its the over consumption that leads to problems. As far as sugar and fat, there is nothing wrong with eating that if its done in moderation. It all comes down to if a person abuses their "freedom". I don't want my taxes to pay for the healthcare of a person who has no self-control and eats themselves to death. People are affected by a person who doesn't take care of themselves such as their kids or other family members. Jewelz, are you advocating legalizing prostitution?

BTW guys, this thread is about MORALS, not RIGHTS. Keep that in mind when you're replying.
[/quote]

Morals not rights ? But are you not arguing whether or not a certain activity should be legalized ? If you just want to have a moral discussion, leave the government out of it. The subject of your thread is San Francisco wanting to legalize prostutiion.

One might say everything is good in moderation, isn't it ?

You think it's immoral for some guy who wants to get off to go pay a hooker. Let's just pretend for a second that it doesn't happen every day even with prostitution being illegal. I may agree with you that it's immoral but those are MY morals that I would not enforce on other adults.

And again, it could be good in moderation. Some guy who's never been laid wants to go pay $200 to pop his cherry, what do I care ? A guy who's married with kids goes to see a hooker every night - probably a problem; but he could also go drink himself senseless every night at a bar and it's perfectly legal. How do we regulate moderation ?

And who should get to decide which morals should be legislated and which ones should be left alone ?


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> Bullsnake:
> 
> "Would the better alternative be for couples to remain miserable in bad marriages and for gay people to be shamed into remaining in the'closet' their whole lives?"
> 
> ...


Diddeye, I believe your ideology is immoral and unethical because you want to do people harm.

People should remain miserable in failed marriages? A gay person's lifestyle is inferior, if not inherently perverse and deviant, and should be hidden from society at large?

These ideas are evil. They bring nothing to society but misery, shame, and hate.
[/quote]

Why don't you do a little thinking and ask why its a failed marriage? Our country makes it too easy for people to get divorced. They made a contract to work on their marriage through better or worse. So AGAIN (since it seems you didn't fully read my post), unless there's abuse or some type of cheating, divorce shouldn't be granted that easily.

As far as the gay lifestyle, I do think its immoral. Sue me. I think its perverse and deviant and should be hidden from society at large because it is immoral. Are you telling me that you don't feel the same as me in any way? Would you be proud if your son said he was gay? Face it, there's a social stigma for a reason. Call me a bigot, but the you're only responding in this manner because of what you've been conditioned to say and it makes you feel superior to us religious folk livin in the dark ages.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> Bullsnake:
> 
> "Would the better alternative be for couples to remain miserable in bad marriages and for gay people to be shamed into remaining in the'closet' their whole lives?"
> 
> ...


Diddeye, I believe your ideology is immoral and unethical because you want to do people harm.

People should remain miserable in failed marriages? A gay person's lifestyle is inferior, if not inherently perverse and deviant, and should be hidden from society at large?

These ideas are evil. They bring nothing to society but misery, shame, and hate.
[/quote]

dude i live when bull snake post things other then pictures because its usually of substance.. nice post..


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.

Nismo, I knew somebody would eventually bring up the taliban. News flash, just because somebody brings up morals or religion doesn't mean they are equal. Its such a lame comparison like how everybody is hitler if they don't like their thinking.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

diddye said:


> Bullsnake:
> 
> "Would the better alternative be for couples to remain miserable in bad marriages and for gay people to be shamed into remaining in the'closet' their whole lives?"
> 
> ...


Diddeye, I believe your ideology is immoral and unethical because you want to do people harm.

People should remain miserable in failed marriages? A gay person's lifestyle is inferior, if not inherently perverse and deviant, and should be hidden from society at large?

These ideas are evil. They bring nothing to society but misery, shame, and hate.
[/quote]

Why don't you do a little thinking and ask why its a failed marriage? Our country makes it too easy for people to get divorced. They made a contract to work on their marriage through better or worse. So AGAIN (since it seems you didn't fully read my post), unless there's abuse or some type of cheating, divorce shouldn't be granted that easily.

*As far as the gay lifestyle, I do think its immoral. Sue me. I think its perverse and deviant and should be hidden from society at large because it is immoral. * Are you telling me that you don't feel the same as me in any way? Would you be proud if your son said he was gay? Face it, there's a social stigma for a reason. Call me a bigot, but the you're only responding in this manner because of what you've been conditioned to say and it makes you feel superior to us religious folk livin in the dark ages.
[/quote]

you have a friend ..


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

diddye said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> 
> Nismo, I knew somebody would eventually bring up the taliban. News flash, just because somebody brings up morals or religion doesn't mean they are equal. Its such a lame comparison like how everybody is hitler if they don't like their thinking.


is it really lame or far fetched?

by your standards you want pretty much the same things just maybe not enforced with the same brutality.

no womens rights (in terms of choices) no rights for gays to live as freely as you, no freedom for people to do things they might possibly enjoy. BUT let me guess you are 1000 percent for guns??


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Nice nismo, too bad I'm not in denial and know there are gays everywhere. Besides, its off topic. Homosexuality should be a different thread.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

diddye said:


> Nice nismo, too bad I'm not in denial and know there are gays everywhere. Besides, its off topic. Homosexuality should be a different thread.


how is it off topic youve brought it up. its part of your morals.

coincidentally enough in additional interviews amajinadad elaborated on his view of gays saying he doesnt care what people do in their homes. so you two really do agree on that stance the only difference is your willing to accept and acknowledge there are gays in the US you just wish they would hide.


----------



## Guest (Oct 22, 2008)

I guess it depends on how one defines morality. Personally, I believe:

Provides freedom, acceptance, & happiness = moral

Brings harm, hardship, hatred, & shame = immoral

I do not believe something is inherently moral because the Bible says so.

I can not be convinced that consenting adults doing what they choose to do and not bringing any harm to any person or society is immoral.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> I guess it depends on how one defines morality. Personally, I believe:
> 
> Provides freedom, acceptance, & happiness = moral
> 
> ...


So...do you agree that prostitution should be legalized? Or are you on some crusade to discredit anything I say?


----------



## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

diddye said:


> Nice nismo, too bad I'm not in denial and know there are gays everywhere. Besides, its off topic. Homosexuality should be a different thread.


Your the one who brought it up in your original post of things that you are morally outraged over.

I'm not in denial when I say that a persons sexuality doesn't bother me at all. It's none of my business.

If my own child was gay it wouldn't bother me either. I believe people are what they are and don't deserve second class treatment.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

[email protected]° said:


> Nice nismo, too bad I'm not in denial and know there are gays everywhere. Besides, its off topic. Homosexuality should be a different thread.


Your the one who brought it up in your original post of things that you are morally outraged over.

I'm not in denial when I say that a persons sexuality doesn't bother me at all. It's none of my business.

If my own child was gay it wouldn't bother me either. I believe people are what they are and don't deserve second class treatment.
[/quote]

i definately feel that people who accept others for who they are and dont expect them to live any differently have much better morals.


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

diddye said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Personal Freedom = think/act like diddye or shut the hell up


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

gamgenius said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Personal Freedom = think/act like diddye or shut the hell up 








[/quote]

No need to get nasty. I don't see any of my posts telling anybody to shut up.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> .


Do you not realize that considering a certain activity immoral and considering whether or not it should be legal are two completely different things ?

Again, what right does a person to have to force THEIR morals on everyone else ? Morality should be practiced and passed on to your kids, not legislated.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> Nice nismo, too bad I'm not in denial and know there are gays everywhere. Besides, its off topic. Homosexuality should be a different thread.


Your the one who brought it up in your original post of things that you are morally outraged over.

I'm not in denial when I say that a persons sexuality doesn't bother me at all. It's none of my business.

If my own child was gay it wouldn't bother me either. I believe people are what they are and don't deserve second class treatment.
[/quote]

i definately feel that people who accept others for who they are and dont expect them to live any differently have much better morals.
[/quote]

I guess I view it from a religious standpoint(and I know most of you aren't religious). Just because a person is religious doesn't mean that they don't care about those other people. God says that people like prostitutes need love the most. Still, nobody (except doktordet) answered my question, so I'm going to call you out. Jewelz, nismo, gamgenius,sadboy, bake,bullsnake, febsalien, do you agree that we should legalize prostitution? As a sidebar, how many of you are liberals(hence the topic of my thread)?


----------



## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> .


Do you not realize that considering a certain activity immoral and considering whether or not it should be legal are two completely different things ?

*Again, what right does a person to have to force THEIR morals on everyone else ? Morality should be practiced and passed on to your kids, not legislated.*
[/quote]

EXACTLY!!!


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> .


Do you not realize that considering a certain activity immoral and considering whether or not it should be legal are two completely different things ?

Again, what right does a person to have to force THEIR morals on everyone else ? Morality should be practiced and passed on to your kids, not legislated.
[/quote]

I disagree. Our laws, and the laws of the entire world are based on a basic set of ethics/morals.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> . Jewelz, nismo, gamgenius,sadboy, bake,bullsnake, febsalien, do you agree that we should legalize prostitution?


Yes


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> . Jewelz, nismo, gamgenius,sadboy, bake,bullsnake, febsalien, do you agree that we should legalize prostitution?


Yes
[/quote]

Thanks


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

diddye said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Personal Freedom = think/act like diddye or shut the hell up 








[/quote]

No need to get nasty. I don't see any of my posts telling anybody to shut up.
[/quote]

I'm not trying to be nasty... I was referring to your statements that gay people shouldn't be allowed to talk about their lifestyle on TV and that people in bad marriages should keep quiet and stay married. Both are realities which you don't want to see or hear, despite the fact that they exist around you.


----------



## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

YES!!

In Europe they have unions which protects the girls, and johns.

I know people who use prostitutes from time to time and what they do is their business.

I am a soon to be married man and don't engage in the practice but I could care less what others do... I just wish it was more like it was in Europe where the girls are tested regularly and receive fair compensation for their services...


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

gamgenius said:


> Shouldn't legalizing prostitution and drugs be part of conservative platform ? It is, if you ask a Libertarian. What's not conservative about minimizing the size and scope of government and believing in personal freedoms ?


Personal freedom is limited when it affects others negatively. There's a line drawn when a brothel is next to my house or addicts waiting outside my door. Sorry.
[/quote]

Personal Freedom = think/act like diddye or shut the hell up 








[/quote]

No need to get nasty. I don't see any of my posts telling anybody to shut up.
[/quote]

I'm not trying to be nasty... I was referring to your statements that gay people shouldn't be allowed to talk about their lifestyle on TV and that people in bad marriages should keep quiet and stay married. Both are realities which you don't want to see or hear, despite the fact that they exist around you.
[/quote]

Sorry, I've never said such things. Re-read my posts.


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Ummm, yes you did. Re-read your posts....



diddye said:


> You guys are exactly what I'm talking about. Liberalism makes people more accepting of immoral acts. For sadboy, bake etc who said "dont live near them", prostitution is currently illegal in SF. So....do you advocate those people moving out because some hooker started working their corner? Would you like your kids influenced by them?
> 
> Bullsnake:
> 
> ...


Ummm, yes you did....


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> .


Do you not realize that considering a certain activity immoral and considering whether or not it should be legal are two completely different things ?

Again, what right does a person to have to force THEIR morals on everyone else ? Morality should be practiced and passed on to your kids, not legislated.
[/quote]

I disagree. Our laws, and the laws of the entire world are based on a basic set of ethics/morals.
[/quote]

Sure, basic ethics like thou shall not kill or steal are very much applicable. Why, because they hurt others directly. What consenting adults do in their own privacy does not harm anyone. And don't give the crap about some married guy hurting his family by seeing a prostitute, I already gave you an example where the guy could go to a bar, smoke, do 1000 other things that are legal that could hurt his family..


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

gamgenius said:


> You guys are exactly what I'm talking about. Liberalism makes people more accepting of immoral acts. For sadboy, bake etc who said "dont live near them", prostitution is currently illegal in SF. So....do you advocate those people moving out because some hooker started working their corner? Would you like your kids influenced by them?
> 
> Bullsnake:
> 
> ...


Ummm, yes you did....
[/quote]

Thanks for only highlighting part of the post. Why didn't you include the rest? Why is it a bad marriage? If there wasn't abuse, why couldn't they use counseling? What part of better or worse didn't they understand? I don't want my kids watching homosexuals making out on network TV(for clarification, MTV can do what they want, its just an example). They can talk all they want about it as long as it isn't too graphic. Can it pass the PG/PG13 rating for a movie?


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> .


Do you not realize that considering a certain activity immoral and considering whether or not it should be legal are two completely different things ?

Again, what right does a person to have to force THEIR morals on everyone else ? Morality should be practiced and passed on to your kids, not legislated.
[/quote]

I disagree. Our laws, and the laws of the entire world are based on a basic set of ethics/morals.
[/quote]

Sure, basic ethics like thou shall not kill or steal are very much applicable. Why, because they hurt others directly. What consenting adults do in their own privacy does not harm anyone. And don't give the crap about some married guy hurting his family by seeing a prostitute, I already gave you an example where the guy could go to a bar, smoke, do 1000 other things that are legal that could hurt his family..
[/quote]

If its so great, why is it outlawed in most countries? Why is it you can only name a handful of countries if its so great? Is it because the world is too bigoted? (hehe, like how I answered your question with a question?)


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

DidDye my friend, I agree with your moral standards as well as your political views. You're one of the few in this forum that I admire. Don't be discouraged from the expected responds. As I've learned from the past, it's nearly impossible to change the moral standards of the immoral.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> Haha, deep down, I get the feeling everybody in this room knows its immoral. However, since its diddye posting they need to play devils advocate. How about everybody who feels that prostitution should be legalized in their town chime in.
> .


Do you not realize that considering a certain activity immoral and considering whether or not it should be legal are two completely different things ?

Again, what right does a person to have to force THEIR morals on everyone else ? Morality should be practiced and passed on to your kids, not legislated.
[/quote]

I disagree. Our laws, and the laws of the entire world are based on a basic set of ethics/morals.
[/quote]

Sure, basic ethics like thou shall not kill or steal are very much applicable. Why, because they hurt others directly. What consenting adults do in their own privacy does not harm anyone. And don't give the crap about some married guy hurting his family by seeing a prostitute, I already gave you an example where the guy could go to a bar, smoke, do 1000 other things that are legal that could hurt his family..
[/quote]

If its so great, why is it outlawed in most countries? Why is it you can only name a handful of countries if its so great? Is it because the world is too bigoted? (hehe, like how I answered your question with a question?)
[/quote]

It'll change with progress - I mean look how far we have advanced in the last few centuries. Most civilized western countries in recent years, including ours, have made strides to loosen restrictions on prostitution including some form of decriminalization in certain areas or full legalization in some cases.

By contrast, fundamental Islamic societies still stuck in middle ages have the strictest laws regarding prostitution, homosexuality, drugs and all other things that you consider immoral. Would you feel better if Taliban were in charge of our country ?


----------



## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

well, religion is narrow-minded, extreme, and irrational. so the end of it can only be a good thing.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> . Jewelz, nismo, gamgenius,sadboy, bake,bullsnake, febsalien, do you agree that we should legalize prostitution?


Yes
[/quote]

yes


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> DidDye my friend, I agree with your moral standards as well as your political views. You're one of the few in this forum that I admire. Don't be discouraged from the expected responds. As I've learned from the past, it's nearly impossible to change the moral standards of the immoral.


i respect you for your restraint and willingness to just accept the fact most people dont see things the way you and guys like diddye do but i think had we not had this converstaion you would be hard pressed to label a majority of the people in this thread as being "immoral"


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

wow, this is an interesting thread.

diddye... i think there is a society for you, and its called Iran. Who are you to tell people what they do is immoral. Who are you, and who is religion to tell people how to live their lives? You can live how you want, teach your children to live the way you want them (but ultimately its their choice), thats about it. When people do things that you dont approve of, you just have to ignore it. I dont approve of reality TV, that doesnt mean i am angry at it, it just means that i change the channel. easy as that.

I would think that you would want less government control, not more.



rchan11 said:


> DidDye my friend, I agree with your moral standards as well as your political views. You're one of the few in this forum that I admire. Don't be discouraged from the expected responds. As I've learned from the past, it's nearly impossible to change the moral standards of the immoral.


im immoral because a book that was written a long time ago, which people choose to use it as a ruling stick for their lives, say so. Good to see people think for themselves a bit.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

lol i dont approve of lame sitcoms where every line is a one liner with a laugh track and its sappy overly "pc" family friendly watered down entertainment.

this is actually frighteningly similar to Palins recent comments about "real America" the small towns where society is still decades behind the rest of the world and they look at modern cities as the evil immoral leftist. compared to the majority of MODERN societies of which america should be the leader we are starting to get dragged backwards by the ultra conservative christian fundamentalist.


----------



## boiler149 (Oct 31, 2007)

hmmm


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> DidDye my friend, I agree with your moral standards as well as your political views. You're one of the few in this forum that I admire. Don't be discouraged from the expected responds. As I've learned from the past, it's nearly impossible to change the moral standards of the immoral.


i respect you for your restraint and willingness to just accept the fact most people dont see things the way you and guys like diddye do but i think had we not had this converstaion you would be hard pressed to label a majority of the people in this thread as being "immoral"
[/quote]

I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.

As for being like a Taliban society, Diddye and I are for protecting and honoring women. Taliban treats women worse than animals. Taliban forces men and women into suicide missions. Taliban swore to the teachings of the Quran to "Kill all infidels". Taliban opposes any positive advancement of civilization. Taliban forbids personal and religious freedom.

Anyone one of you don't mind if your loved ones are involved in prostitution is IMMORAL. Don't mind others loved one to do so, that's a hypocrite.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Im not sure if you guys knew this or not but prostitution has been around&#8230;. Pretty much as long as we have. Nothing we can do will ever stop it.
Making it legal does three things:
1. keeps Law enforcement working on crimes that involve harm from one person to another. 
2. Keeps prostitutes away from shady pimps who don't really care about them at all and treat them like crap.
3. Makes it possible to regulate them and verify that prostitutes are disease free which keeps diseases from spreading.

Now, im not saying that I support it, and to say that people who support legalizing it wouldn't mind if their loved ones were prostitutes is a stupid diversion argument. I cant speak for everyone but im reasonably certain that all of us would not let our loved ones fall on such hard times that they would have to resort to this&#8230; but that doesn't mean that some women do resort to it for whatever reason or another.

You religious guys should see this: a single mom with no family falls on hard times and resorts to prostitution to feed her kids. Would you rather she was taken care of by her employer and not beaten, not be allowed to turn tricks that could possibly have diseases, not be arrested for her only means of providing and put in jail and her kids left alone. (and I say only because, working minimum wage jobs and paying babysitters results in almost zero income. Sure there are jobs out there that are higher than minimum wage but some of these women have three kids to take care of all day and probably don't have time to go to job fair, can you put yourselves in their shoes?)

Or would you rather just keep it illegal so you can say you are moral?


----------



## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Okay, wait, so we have to regulate prostitution to keep cops from regulating prostitution?


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

ChilDawg said:


> Okay, wait, so we have to regulate prostitution to keep cops from regulating prostitution?


if that was directed at me, i dont mean that "we" (taxpayers) regulate it. If it were legal, free market would take over and choices would be provided, and (i hate to put it this way, but in economic terms it is what it is) an optimal product would emerge. Optimal being best for everyone involved.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Nick G said:


> You religious guys should see this: a single mom with no family falls on hard times and resorts to prostitution to feed her kids. Would you rather she was taken care of by her employer and not beaten, not be allowed to turn tricks that could possibly have diseases, not be arrested for her only means of providing and put in jail and her kids left alone. (and I say only because, working minimum wage jobs and paying babysitters results in almost zero income. Sure there are jobs out there that are higher than minimum wage but some of these women have three kids to take care of all day and probably don't have time to go to job fair, can you put yourselves in their shoes?)
> 
> Or would you rather just keep it illegal so you can say you are moral?


How many fall into this category? A very small percentage. Many are in it for easy money, for drugs. Look up the statistics! All those prostitutes walking the streets are there to support her kids? I think not. Many are forced by their pimps to do so. They're many government agencies as well as private institutes there to help the needy.

Laws don't regulate morality, it's in ones heart. It's ok for someone else to do it as long as not anyone from your family. If your loved one is in the situation you've mentioned above, they have your approval to be a prostitute. Right?


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

how would they gather statistics on the motives of a group of people who operate an illegal industry? and ill bet that group is larger than you would like to admit.

and obviously i wouldnt approve of it, i dont approve of prostitution, but making it legal helps the girls who choose to do it more than it hurts the rest of us.

a lot of the drugs (i presume) are around because this industry is underground. Make it legal, and that stops.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Nick G said:


> how would they gather statistics on the motives of a group of people who operate an illegal industry? and ill bet that group is larger than you would like to admit.
> 
> and obviously i wouldnt approve of it, i dont approve of prostitution, but making it legal helps the girls who choose to do it more than it hurts the rest of us.
> 
> a lot of the drugs (i presume) are around because this industry is underground. Make it legal, and that stops.


Why not protect them by eliminating prostitution my friend? If there's a need for protection, it's not something that's positive.

Do you know the health care cost for people who are doing legal drugs? Billions and billions are spent to treat nicotine and alcohol related illnesses. Billions more on treating illegal drugs in emergency rooms across our nations. Legalizing it will make drugs more accessible to the public and put our citizens at risk.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

do you think that prostitution being illegal eliminates it?
drugs are illegal, yet they are a huge problem in our society, as well as a huge amount of our law enforcement budget to fight them. what we need to do is spend that money on drug treatment and education, but the war on drugs is another discussion all together.

prostitution will never be eliminated. i would love if it were, but it WILL NEVER GO AWAY. 
always there will be people willing to pay for services that they, for some reason, are not getting on their own. its always been around and its not going away just by being illegal.
so we better start dealing with it in a way that helps it, rather than makes it worse for those involved.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Nick G said:


> prostitution will never be eliminated. i would love if it were,


Lets work on that my friend!


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

maybe we should put the money we spend fighting prostitution on the street level into the agencies for these women and help provide them with a choice.


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

legalize everything, quit spending so much damn money trying to stop it and start making some money by taxing it. if you don't like it, don't f*ck her.


----------



## boiler149 (Oct 31, 2007)

i wasnt aware that we had any morals left to loose? lol


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Nick G said:


> maybe we should put the money we spend fighting prostitution on the street level into the agencies for these women and help provide them with a choice.


Excellent idea Nick


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

rchan11 said:


> prostitution will never be eliminated. i would love if it were,


Lets work on that my friend!








[/quote]
i agree. 
obviously the tactics that we have been employing arent working, because by now they should have ended it. we obviously need another approach. which i think is the goal with this SF legalization thing.


----------



## boiler149 (Oct 31, 2007)

ya that is a good idea nick


----------



## irishfan 689 (Aug 11, 2004)

Boobah said:


> legalize everything, quit spending so much damn money trying to stop it and start making some money by taxing it. if you don't like it, don't f*ck her.


Indeed...the libertarian way


----------



## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

Can't we all just get along?? I think we all can agree on paying to plow this if the situation arose?


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

i mean, it makes sense, if something doesnt work.... try something else. i dont think this san fran thing is legalizing prostitutes for any other reason than to reign in an illegal industry and try to protect those involved. maybe they should tax it, and use that money to help women at the source, then in 10 years, problem solved. 
but i doubt prostitution will ever go away, but i guess aiming high is the only way to go.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.


Or maybe, just maybe we trust our loved ones to make responsible decisions with their lives like we do with everything else.

I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution; I don't think anyone's talking about legalizing sex slavery.

The hilarious thing is this is being presented as the downfall of liberalism, when it's the *conservatism * that has always stood for individual liberties and keeping the government out of one's life.


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.


Or maybe, just maybe we trust our loved ones to make responsible decisions with their lives like we do with everything else.

I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution; I don't think anyone's talking about legalizing sex slavery.

The hilarious thing is this is being presented as the downfall of liberalism, when it's the *conservatism * that has always stood for individual liberties and keeping the government out of one's life.
[/quote]

exactly it's all ass backwards now. just because you love jesus and hate drugs doesn't make you conservative..you're a bible thumper. If republicans would just drop that sector they'd be dominant.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Personally I am not for legal prostitution. But to be honest I am actually on the fence in some ways with it. Anyways I only wanted to bring up a point. And you can argue through your teeth that "it would never happen", but assume it does. 
What happens to you pro-prositution people when say, your daughter becomes one? Are you still pro? Or like those who protest the death penalty until someone close to them is murdered, does your opinion change?


----------



## swack (May 29, 2007)

all this is is proof that conservatives can finally stop pushing there beliefs on me


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.


Or maybe, just maybe we trust our loved ones to make responsible decisions with their lives like we do with everything else.

I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution; I don't think anyone's talking about legalizing sex slavery.

The hilarious thing is this is being presented as the downfall of liberalism, when it's the *conservatism * that has always stood for individual liberties and keeping the government out of one's life.
[/quote]

From the article..self explanatory. Didn't know the Democratic Party is known for conservatism.

Proposition K has been endorsed by the local Democratic Party. But the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community oppose the idea, contending it would increase street prostitution, allow pimps the run of neighborhoods and hamper the fight against sex trafficking, which would remain illegal because it involves forcing people into the sex trade.

The San Francisco Chronicle editorialized against the measure, saying it could make the city a magnet for prostitution.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Boobah said:


> exactly it's all ass backwards now. just because you love jesus and hate drugs doesn't make you conservative..you're a bible thumper. *If republicans would just drop that sector they'd be dominant*.


Yeah but then Republicans would actually have to be conservative, instead of pretending they're conservative and rallying for "family values" and "morals" when they're not cruising for anonymous hummers in airport bathrooms. That might be inconvenient.


----------



## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> exactly it's all ass backwards now. just because you love jesus and hate drugs doesn't make you conservative..you're a bible thumper. *If republicans would just drop that sector they'd be dominant*.


Yeah but then Republicans would actually have to be conservative, instead of pretending they're conservative and rallying for "family values" and "morals" when they're not cruising for anonymous hummers in airport bathrooms. That might be inconvenient.
[/quote]

you're so bitter


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.


Or maybe, just maybe we trust our loved ones to make responsible decisions with their lives like we do with everything else.

I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution; I don't think anyone's talking about legalizing sex slavery.

The hilarious thing is this is being presented as the downfall of liberalism, when it's the *conservatism * that has always stood for individual liberties and keeping the government out of one's life.
[/quote]

From the article..self explanatory. Didn't know the Democratic Party is know for conservatism.

Proposition K has been endorsed by the local Democratic Party. But the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community oppose the idea, contending it would increase street prostitution, allow pimps the run of neighborhoods and hamper the fight against sex trafficking, which would remain illegal because it involves forcing people into the sex trade.

The San Francisco Chronicle editorialized against the measure, saying it could make the city a magnet for prostitution.
[/quote]

Can I ask you a question?

What is your major malfunction ?

The Democrats want to legalize prostitution, therefore it's a liberal value ? Wow, that makes a lot of sense to me. If Democrats wanted to cut spending, would fiscal responsibility become a liberal value as well ?

How about you drop the Democrats vs. Republicans BS and address my point instead ? Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> Personally I am not for legal prostitution. But to be honest I am actually on the fence in some ways with it. Anyways I only wanted to bring up a point. And you can argue through your teeth that "it would never happen", but assume it does.
> What happens to you *pro-prositution *people when say, your daughter becomes one? Are you still pro? Or like those who protest the death penalty until someone close to them is murdered, does your opinion change?


no one here is pro-prostitution. did you read the thread?


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Boobah said:


> exactly it's all ass backwards now. just because you love jesus and hate drugs doesn't make you conservative..you're a bible thumper. *If republicans would just drop that sector they'd be dominant*.


Yeah but then Republicans would actually have to be conservative, instead of pretending they're conservative and rallying for "family values" and "morals" when they're not cruising for anonymous hummers in airport bathrooms. That might be inconvenient.
[/quote]

you're so bitter








[/quote]

And I am clinging to my guns and bible


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Nick G said:


> Personally I am not for legal prostitution. But to be honest I am actually on the fence in some ways with it. Anyways I only wanted to bring up a point. And you can argue through your teeth that "it would never happen", but assume it does.
> What happens to you *pro-prositution *people when say, your daughter becomes one? Are you still pro? Or like those who protest the death penalty until someone close to them is murdered, does your opinion change?


no one here is pro-prostitution. did you read the thread?
[/quote]
Yes and I meant that as a generalization. I'm not calling any PRO-prostitue. I'm refering to it in that way as a blunt way of saying "legalize" it. As in pro-choice/pro-life if you will. I understand no one here believes in it but is debating, rather, the legalities behind it. Would you be so forgiving of the practice if someone close to you was involved in that lifestyle?


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

diddye said:


> Jewelz, nismo, gamgenius,sadboy, bake,bullsnake, febsalien, do you agree that we should legalize prostitution? As a sidebar, how many of you are liberals(hence the topic of my thread)?


Yes

diddye, what do you really care about what an adult does with another concenting adult? Does it really bug you?

I will admit one thing, I think being gay is wrong but guess what it's not up to me. If a guy wants to get down with another guy, more power to them. Does it bug me, NO. Do I argee with it no. But there are a lot of things that people do that I dont argee with but that's up to the person.

I have a son and a little girl, would I care if they were gay? Hmmm...
I am not going to lie, if my son one day told me he was gay, I would be angry, sad, and then blame myself for maybe not being more rough with him. But guess what, I love my son to death, I know I would get over it and I would still love him. Would I argee with him? No! But if that is what my son want's, so be it. Same thing goes for my little girl....

Now you are asking if any of us would mind if we knew someone in our family who sold herself/himself for money. I dont know anybody that does that?

But all I can do and hope for is that I raise my childern right and they go to school and not do that.

But let me point something out here, the brothals in NV charge well in the thousands for sex. And porn stars make BANK (well females at least). I have a feeling if it were legal, we would have a lot more women/men do it because it pays good. Do I argee with it no but hey someone has to do it, right? I knew a woman is my last job who made over $80K, guess what she came out in a porno and told me they paid her between $5000 to $6000 for a few hours work. I couldnt believe it, she said she used the money to fix her teeth but anyways, I would never have known that about her. She went to USC and I still couldnt believe it.

I cant believe you are really saying that if a couple is unhappy, then they should never get a divorce. Do you have any idea of how pain it is to be with somebody that you no longer love and makes you upset all the time. Do you know how it feels to come home to a fight every single day. Or how it feels to always go to sleep mad with the other person. I dont think you do, but I do. Do you know how much damge a bad marriage can do to the childern. I really cant believe you would want to keep those people together. That is just sad on your part, it really is.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> Personally I am not for legal prostitution. But to be honest I am actually on the fence in some ways with it. Anyways I only wanted to bring up a point. And you can argue through your teeth that "it would never happen", but assume it does.
> What happens to you *pro-prositution *people when say, your daughter becomes one? Are you still pro? Or like those who protest the death penalty until someone close to them is murdered, does your opinion change?


no one here is pro-prostitution. did you read the thread?
[/quote]
Yes and I meant that as a generalization. I'm not calling any PRO-prostitue. I'm refering to it in that way as a blunt way of saying "legalize" it. As in pro-choice/pro-life if you will. I understand no one here believes in it but is debating, rather, the legalities behind it. Would you be so forgiving of the practice if someone close to you was involved in that lifestyle?
[/quote]

Just as forgiving as I would be if someone close to me had a drinking or gambling problem


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> Personally I am not for legal prostitution. But to be honest I am actually on the fence in some ways with it. Anyways I only wanted to bring up a point. And you can argue through your teeth that "it would never happen", but assume it does.
> *What happens to you pro-prositution people when say, your daughter becomes one?* Are you still pro? Or like those who protest the death penalty until someone close to them is murdered, does your opinion change?


well I hope that never happens with my little girl, I will raise her the best I can but I am also realistic that I have no clue what my childern will do when they get older. If it was legal and she wanted to do it, could I really stop her? No! People will always do what they want. Parents can only hope they do there job and hope for the best.

No parent wants their childern to grew up to be losers but it happens...
That's life.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.


Or maybe, just maybe we trust our loved ones to make responsible decisions with their lives like we do with everything else.

I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution; I don't think anyone's talking about legalizing sex slavery.

The hilarious thing is this is being presented as the downfall of liberalism, when it's the *conservatism * that has always stood for individual liberties and keeping the government out of one's life.
[/quote]

From the article..self explanatory. Didn't know the Democratic Party is know for conservatism.

Proposition K has been endorsed by the local Democratic Party. But the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community oppose the idea, contending it would increase street prostitution, allow pimps the run of neighborhoods and hamper the fight against sex trafficking, which would remain illegal because it involves forcing people into the sex trade.

The San Francisco Chronicle editorialized against the measure, saying it could make the city a magnet for prostitution.
[/quote]

Can I ask you a question?

What is your major malfunction ?

The Democrats want to legalize prostitution, therefore it's a liberal value ? Wow, that makes a lot of sense to me. If Democrats wanted to cut spending, would fiscal responsibility become a liberal value as well ?

How about you drop the Democrats vs. Republicans BS and address my point instead ? Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?
[/quote]
It's you that mentioned liberalism and is the idealism of the Democratic Party and they support Prop K.

"I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution".

Perhaps you should read the article and get the idea.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> Personally I am not for legal prostitution. But to be honest I am actually on the fence in some ways with it. Anyways I only wanted to bring up a point. And you can argue through your teeth that "it would never happen", but assume it does.
> What happens to you *pro-prositution *people when say, your daughter becomes one? Are you still pro? Or like those who protest the death penalty until someone close to them is murdered, does your opinion change?


no one here is pro-prostitution. did you read the thread?
[/quote]
Yes and I meant that as a generalization. I'm not calling any PRO-prostitue. I'm refering to it in that way as a blunt way of saying "legalize" it. As in pro-choice/pro-life if you will. I understand no one here believes in it but is debating, rather, the legalities behind it. Would you be so forgiving of the practice if someone close to you was involved in that lifestyle?
[/quote]
no, there is a difference between being pro-anything and thinking it should be legal. examples: i dislike trans fat, it is degrading the health of society... but do i think that it should be illegal... no. that doesnt make me pro-obesity.
alcohol abuse is breaking up families .... do i approve of it, no. do i think alcohol should be illegal, no.

im not going to talk about if someone close to me was involved in that lifestyle for two reasons, first off, all the women in my life (and men if you want to get technical about it) are smarter than that and do alright for themselves, and even if the sky fell, they still have me. as long as i am able to work, none of the females in my life will ever have to resort to that. and if i werent able to work, i am surrounded by enough good people who feel the same way as me. 
The other reason i would have someone like that in my life is if i became friends with one, and if that happened, i would do my best to help them so that they dont need to live that way.

plus, i think that legalizing it, is a far more forgiving approach than keeping it illegal and letting these girls fend for themselves in a world of pimps.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

But Nick, it's not societies responsibility to ensure no woman has to fend for herself. It's everyones individual responsibility. We should legalize such an immoral practice "just because". You can take your argument and expand it into so many other areas. I understand the compassion of your point, but the reality of mine is what works IMO.

You're not wrong however. And another reality is that seldom does one go from prostitution to a college degree and a lifestyle of wealth and well being. But the proper step isnt to legalize it in the first place. It starts at home and starts with a social wide morality. Like teaching safe sex in school (we all know how well that works) was suppose to solve teen pregnancy.

Not to mention the utter chaos of trying to regulate prostituion. If it were indeed legal. It wouldnt happen. Nor should it.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> I'm sure you guys don't mind seeing your loved ones selling their bodies for money, having sex with strangers and you've no objection to it. Right? (I think not). As long as they're someone's wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends, it's ok. Millions of women and girls are forced into prostitution worldwide to satisfy this immoral world.


Or maybe, just maybe we trust our loved ones to make responsible decisions with their lives like we do with everything else.

I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution; I don't think anyone's talking about legalizing sex slavery.

The hilarious thing is this is being presented as the downfall of liberalism, when it's the *conservatism * that has always stood for individual liberties and keeping the government out of one's life.
[/quote]

From the article..self explanatory. Didn't know the Democratic Party is know for conservatism.

Proposition K has been endorsed by the local Democratic Party. But the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community oppose the idea, contending it would increase street prostitution, allow pimps the run of neighborhoods and hamper the fight against sex trafficking, which would remain illegal because it involves forcing people into the sex trade.

The San Francisco Chronicle editorialized against the measure, saying it could make the city a magnet for prostitution.
[/quote]

Can I ask you a question?

What is your major malfunction ?

The Democrats want to legalize prostitution, therefore it's a liberal value ? Wow, that makes a lot of sense to me. If Democrats wanted to cut spending, would fiscal responsibility become a liberal value as well ?

How about you drop the Democrats vs. Republicans BS and address my point instead ? Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?
[/quote]
It's you that mentioned liberalism and is the idealism of the Democratic Party and they support Prop K.

"I have no idea what you're referring as to being "forced" into prostitution".

Perhaps you should read the article and get the idea.
[/quote]

Every single person in the country now probably knows that the lines between liberals and conservatism are not squarely drawn between Democrats and Republicans.

Now, again, will you please answer my question:

Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


Yes.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Now, again, will you please answer my question:
> 
> Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> Not to mention the utter chaos of trying to regulate prostituion. If it were indeed legal. It wouldnt happen. Nor should it.


we dont need to regulate it, let free market regulate it. america is pretty good at providing products and choices. i dont see this changing if it were legalized.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

rchan11 said:


> Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. *The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.*


If the people vote on it and pass it, then that is the well of the people, which would make it law.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

and just to add a point. im with you on the "it starts at home" thing, and i do with my circle of friends and relatives. im talking about the people who are already in that situation where this is one of a few or maybe the only choice.


----------



## boiler149 (Oct 31, 2007)

i know i read like last year that some small country legalized prositution so they could tax it...ive been looking for the article online but have yet to find it yet..just found it interesting is all


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

sadboy said:


> Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. *The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.*


If the people vote on it and pass it, then that is the well of the people, which would make it law.
[/quote]
You're right. Again, that would not make it right if you go against the recommendations of those who know what they're talking about and are dealing with the prostitution problems daily.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

boiler149 said:


> i know i read like last year that some small country legalized prositution so they could tax it...ive been looking for the article online but have yet to find it yet..just found it interesting is all


amsterdam?
las vegas its legal too, i dont know how it works out there but i do know that las vegas makes so money that everyone there goes to school for free, from taxing "immoralities" like gambling and prostitution.


----------



## boiler149 (Oct 31, 2007)

i wanna say it was like bulgaria or someplace small like that idk ill keep looking for the article


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> Now, again, will you please answer my question:
> 
> Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.
[/quote]

"law abiding" liberties.. well, if the law is passed to legalize it, it will be law abiding by definition, won't it ?

Again, nothing funnier than someone claiming to be conservative suggesting that more government regulations are the answer for certain things that they don't like.

But at the same time, it's good to see real conservatives like Boobah or Llatus. Have no idea why either of them would even consider voting Republican, but that's a different story


----------



## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I would hope that nobody's in a situation where prostitution is the "only" choice...

And, yeah, I was kinda riffing on the part where someone had said that it's less work on the cops, but at the same time, we could regulate the legalized prostitution.

I'm just concerned that we're going to see a rash (pardon the freaking pun, please?) of cases where somebody sues the proprietors of a sex shop over diseases, et cetera...something like what we're seeing with tobacco. You have to know, going in, that this is risky as hell, but at the same time, you have to be able to assume that your hooker is clean. How will this work? Mandatory tests of hookers every so often? Mandatory tests of johns? Is it worthy of worker's comp if a hooker catches a disease because her john was sick?


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

rchan11 said:


> Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. *The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.*


If the people vote on it and pass it, then that is the well of the people, which would make it law.
[/quote]
You're right. Again, that would not make it right if you go against the recommendations of those who know what they're talking about and are dealing with the prostitution problems daily.
[/quote]

You have got to be kidding me. I cant believe you just said that. If the people vote on it again the *people*, then it makes it law, it has nothing to do with your personal beliefs.

I have faith in the American people. The people make the law not one single person. The goverment is the people.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

what i dont fully understand is if adult entertainment such as videos and magazines are legal where peopel are having s3x for money then how is that so drastically different then prostitution? the p0rn industury is multibillion dollar image how much tax revenue would be generated from legal prostitution? that money could be put towrads health and education programs the desperately need it.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

ChilDawg said:


> I would hope that nobody's in a situation where prostitution is the "only" choice...
> 
> And, yeah, I was kinda riffing on the part where someone had said that it's less work on the cops, but at the same time, we could regulate the legalized prostitution.
> 
> I'm just concerned that we're going to see a rash (pardon the freaking pun, please?) of cases where somebody sues the proprietors of a sex shop over diseases, et cetera...something like what we're seeing with tobacco. You have to know, going in, that this is risky as hell, but at the same time, you have to be able to assume that your hooker is clean. How will this work? Mandatory tests of hookers every so often? Mandatory tests of johns? Is it worthy of worker's comp if a hooker catches a disease because her john was sick?


all interesting questions chil.
im no businessman, but id assume: consent forms, and testing.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

> Under Nevada state law, any county with a population under 400,000, as of the last decennial census,[1] is allowed to license brothels if it so chooses.[2] Incorporated towns and cities in counties that allow prostitution may regulate the trade further or prohibit it altogether. Contrary to what many people believe, prostitution is not legal in Las Vegas.
> 
> As of July 2004, prostitution is illegal under state law in Clark County (which contains Las Vegas) and under county or municipal law in Washoe County (which contains Reno), Carson City (an independent city), Douglas County, and Lincoln County. Eureka County neither permits nor prohibits licensed brothels, and has none. The other 11 Nevada counties permit licensed brothels in certain specified areas or cities.[3]
> 
> ...


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Now, again, will you please answer my question:
> 
> Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.
[/quote]

"law abiding" liberties.. well, if the law is passed to legalize it, it will be law abiding by definition, won't it ?

Again, nothing funnier than someone claiming to be conservative suggesting that more government regulations are the answer for certain things that they don't like.

But at the same time, it's good to see real conservatives like Boobah or Llatus. Have no idea why either of them would even consider voting Republican, but that's a different story
[/quote]
Our views on liberties are not the same. Some might view killing or beating of others are within their liberties to do so. Without laws to regulate, we fall into anarchy and do what we see fit under our own definition of "liberties".


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

rchan11 said:


> Our views on liberties are not the same. Some might view killing or beating of others are within their liberties to do so. Without laws to regulate, we fall into anarchy and do what we see fit under our own definition of "liberties".


I can see a major flaw in your thinking.

People are capable of doing just about anything they want. That however does not mean it is within the law.\
If a person commits murder, that's aganist the law, and you know what happens. But if the law says it's okay, then that person has the libertie to do it within the law.


----------



## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

good read guys.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

sadboy said:


> You have got to be kidding me. I cant believe you just said that. If the people vote on it again the *people*, then it makes it law, it has nothing to do with your personal beliefs.
> 
> I have faith in the American people. The people make the law not one single person. The goverment is the people.


It's not my personal beliefs. I don't live in SF. It's against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

rchan11 said:


> You have got to be kidding me. I cant believe you just said that. If the people vote on it again the *people*, then it makes it law, it has nothing to do with your personal beliefs.
> 
> I have faith in the American people. The people make the law not one single person. The goverment is the people.


It's not my personal beliefs. I don't live in SF. It's against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community.
[/quote]

I dont give a dam if the president is aganist it, if the people vote on it and pass it then it's law.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

sadboy said:


> Our views on liberties are not the same. Some might view killing or beating of others are within their liberties to do so. Without laws to regulate, we fall into anarchy and do what we see fit under our own definition of "liberties".


I can see a major flaw in your thinking.

People are capable of doing just about anything they want. That however does not mean it is within the law.\
If a person commits murder, that's aganist the law, and you know what happens. But if the law says it's okay, then that person has the libertie to do it within the law.
[/quote]
Laws are there to regulate personal liberties. I'm answering Jewelz 's question on govt should keep out of people's lives.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> Now, again, will you please answer my question:
> 
> Is keeping the government out of people's lives and individual liberties not a conservative value ?


Yes it is. As long it's law abiding liberties that we're talking about. Passing laws to legalize prostitution, against the recommendations of the mayor, district attorney, police department and much of the business community does not make it right or moral. The Democratic Party going against the will of the people is totally unacceptable.
[/quote]

"law abiding" liberties.. well, if the law is passed to legalize it, it will be law abiding by definition, won't it ?

Again, nothing funnier than someone claiming to be conservative suggesting that more government regulations are the answer for certain things that they don't like.

But at the same time, it's good to see real conservatives like Boobah or Llatus. Have no idea why either of them would even consider voting Republican, but that's a different story
[/quote]
Our views on liberties are not the same. Some might view killing or beating of others are within their liberties to do so. Without laws to regulate, we fall into anarchy and do what we see fit under our own definition of "liberties".
[/quote]

Terrible analogy. Killing or beating hurts others; what consenting adults do in their own time in their homes is noone's business.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

I know who you were answering but I was just adding my 2 cents to your post.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

sadboy said:


> I dont give a dam if the president is aganist it, if the people vote on it and pass it then it's law.


Many segregation laws were passed in the beginning of last century to restrict the freedom of our African-American friends. Just because the people voted into laws, does it make it right?


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

rchan11 said:


> I dont give a dam if the president is aganist it, if the people vote on it and pass it then it's law.


Many segregation laws were passed in the beginning of last century to restrict the freedom of our African-American friends. Just because the people voted into laws, does it make it right?
[/quote]
segreationalist laws were repealed. gone now because people realized they were incorrect and unfair.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

rchan11 said:


> I dont give a dam if the president is aganist it, if the people vote on it and pass it then it's law.


Many segregation laws were passed in the beginning of last century to restrict the freedom of our African-American friends. Just because the people voted into laws, does it make it right?
[/quote]

At that time it was viewed as right but times changed did they not. And many of those laws were later overturned thanks to the well of the people.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> what i dont fully understand is if adult entertainment such as videos and magazines are legal where peopel are having s3x for money then how is that so drastically different then prostitution? the p0rn industury is multibillion dollar image how much tax revenue would be generated from legal prostitution? that money could be put towrads health and education programs the desperately need it.


Legal doesn't make it moral. The reason this peaked my interest is that since I live in So. Cal, SF isn't far away. If this passes, it may well come along in my neighborhood soon.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

diddye said:


> Link
> 
> One of the reasons I'm conservative is that I believe that our society is slowly getting worse each year. We've accepted ideas as "progressive" and called them "equal rights" to give them a softer tone. Homosexuality is normal now, doing drugs is normal and there's many that want to legalize it and tax drug use. We're in a constant struggle to see if killing babies is right. Divorce is rampant, even easy. Sex in the media is becoming more graphic and accepted. We rationalize murder and instead of punishing them, we blame it on their childhood or circumstances as if they could not control it. Religion is now considered narrow-minded, extreme, and irrational. People are more selfish, materialistic, and greedy. Instead of rewarding hard work, we're trying to tax hard workers and give to the "lazy" or less fortunate. Now, the most liberal state in the Union is taking another step towards Sodom and Gomorrah.


homosexuality is the right of someone to be who they were born as. you can't deny someone what they are. not only that, who the f*ck are you or anyone to tell them what's right or wrong? just because it's not right by you, doesnt mean that you are god, and you get to tell them that they are bad people.

doing drugs has ALWAYS gone on. war on drugs? you must be naive if you think that exists. we let the drugs in, they get distributed, we keep people hooked, we take everyones money who does drugs and we distribute it through government. it's a HUUUUUGE money maker for the US. even taxing it wouldnt bring about the revenue that drugs already make us. there's no war on drugs, there's a war to keep people hooked.

i'll agree that divorce is getting worse, and that the social problems of bringing up children is getting worse. it's like a perfect storm if you will. more graphic stuff on the media, and less control by the uber dumbass parents of today. seriously, my mom does daycare, and i see the parents every day...they're dumbasses and they let their kids do anything if they stop crying. it's terrible.

tax the hard workers? no, the philosophy of you get paid well for a job well done is out the window. thank your corporate HQ's for that. shipping jobs overseas, cutting peoples wages to nothing. nope, that part of the economy is not working. greed is at the top, not the bottom. bottom feeders have nothing to be greedy over...and bottom feeders represent about 90% of this country. so yeah, i think your mindset on that is a little jaded.

most liberal state in the union? probably massachusetts, where i live. but regardless, how liberal is nevada? last time i checked prostitution was legal in henderson county.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

sadboy said:


> I dont give a dam if the president is aganist it, if the people vote on it and pass it then it's law.


Many segregation laws were passed in the beginning of last century to restrict the freedom of our African-American friends. Just because the people voted into laws, does it make it right?
[/quote]

At that time it was viewed as right but times changed did they not. And many of those laws were later overturned thanks to the well of the people.
[/quote]
Well said!


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> Link
> 
> One of the reasons I'm conservative is that I believe that our society is slowly getting worse each year. We've accepted ideas as "progressive" and called them "equal rights" to give them a softer tone. Homosexuality is normal now, doing drugs is normal and there's many that want to legalize it and tax drug use. We're in a constant struggle to see if killing babies is right. Divorce is rampant, even easy. Sex in the media is becoming more graphic and accepted. We rationalize murder and instead of punishing them, we blame it on their childhood or circumstances as if they could not control it. Religion is now considered narrow-minded, extreme, and irrational. People are more selfish, materialistic, and greedy. Instead of rewarding hard work, we're trying to tax hard workers and give to the "lazy" or less fortunate. Now, the most liberal state in the Union is taking another step towards Sodom and Gomorrah.


homosexuality is the right of someone to be who they were born as. you can't deny someone what they are. not only that, who the f*ck are you or anyone to tell them what's right or wrong? just because it's not right by you, doesnt mean that you are god, and you get to tell them that they are bad people.

[/quote]

Let me get this straight too. I never said I'm god but I believe their lifestyle is immoral. Where does that come from? Basically every religious order as well as the laws of nature. I don't hate these people because everybody is a person. I have two friends that live this lifestyle and I don't bash them. They struggle with this but you don't see me attacking them all the time. I let my beliefs be known and they accept that. By your analogy, do you think doing coke is wrong? I'm sure you do and who are you to tell them its right or wrong? I'm sure you don't care if they do it or not but the point of this is the compassion involved. Laws are passed to help protect the people sometimes. You can complain that I'm a bible thumper but face the reality, our country is based on Christian values(used as a guideline). Every president we had has either been a Christian or a Catholic. Do you ever think that an atheist will be elected in the near future? Or a Muslim? The reason people like these values is that-they give the person a basic set of morals.


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

You know what I find the funniest with people who invoke the the bible as there reason.
I am a believer as well and I believe most of the teachings in the bible. But the one I like the most it:

ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE!


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

sadboy said:


> You know what I find the funniest with people who invoke the the bible as there reason.
> I am a believer as well and I believe most of the teachings in the bible. But the one I like the most it:
> 
> ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE!


Then you don't have a great understanding of what that means. If that's the only line in the bible, then doesn't that mean we can do whatever we want on Earth? Hey, I can kill as many people I want because "ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE!"


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

I have a very clear understanding of the bible, I teach my family values and how to respect people. I also teach not to worry about what the perosn is doing next door, we are no one to judge another person.

You see that's the problem, people are so dam worried what someone else is doing that they fail to see what they are doing.


----------



## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

sadboy said:


> I have a very clear understanding of the bible, I teach my family values and how to respect people. I also teach not to worry about what the perosn is doing next door, we are no one to judge another person.
> 
> You see that's the problem, people are so dam worried what someone else is doing that they fail to see what they are doing.


I see sad's point very well. I can pick examples in my own life where I am guilty of such acts. Of course I think people take it in the literal sense sad. I think when one states "only God can judge" they assume the legal system has no place to sentence anyone. That society as we know it is a sin. Of course I take what sad points out on a personal level and see the real world need for "judges" if you will. After all, its human nature. If one was to molest a next door neighbor would you seriously not judge? I believe it would be almost instantanious that you would cast judgment.


----------



## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Ocellatus2000 said:


> I have a very clear understanding of the bible, I teach my family values and how to respect people. I also teach not to worry about what the perosn is doing next door, we are no one to judge another person.
> 
> You see that's the problem, people are so dam worried what someone else is doing that they fail to see what they are doing.


I see sad's point very well. I can pick examples in my own life where I am guilty of such acts. Of course I think people take it in the literal sense sad. I think when one states "only God can judge" they assume the legal system has no place to sentence anyone. That society as we know it is a sin. Of course I take what sad points out on a personal level and see the real world need for "judges" if you will. After all, its human nature. If one was to molest a next door neighbor would you seriously not judge? I believe it would be almost instantanious that you would cast judgment.
[/quote]
i dont think i understand your point.

(on a side note, im proud of us... we have had a good discussion, about a really sticky subject, without anyone really losing it or insulting on a personal level. am proud to have been a part of this thread.)


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

sadboy said:


> I have a very clear understanding of the bible, I teach my family values and how to respect people. I also teach not to worry about what the perosn is doing next door, we are no one to judge another person.
> 
> You see that's the problem, people are so dam worried what someone else is doing that they fail to see what they are doing.


I apologize if my last comment came out too harsh. I think theres a difference how that statement is used and while you're right that we all need to respect other people, we need to be good stewards of our community. There needs to be a balance between what a person can and can't do. Even if a person does something to harm themselves, we as a community should try and help as much as possible to prevent any harm. In this case, personally, I don't care if a person wants to sell their body. However, my heart goes out to those who want to destroy their body that way. Does anybody here seriously think those girls don't suffer from emotional scars? Stats show that almost all prostitutes were subjected to physical abuse as children and have little self worth. Legalizing it would make prostitution more acceptable.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Nick G said:


> I have a very clear understanding of the bible, I teach my family values and how to respect people. I also teach not to worry about what the perosn is doing next door, we are no one to judge another person.
> 
> You see that's the problem, people are so dam worried what someone else is doing that they fail to see what they are doing.


I see sad's point very well. I can pick examples in my own life where I am guilty of such acts. Of course I think people take it in the literal sense sad. I think when one states "only God can judge" they assume the legal system has no place to sentence anyone. That society as we know it is a sin. Of course I take what sad points out on a personal level and see the real world need for "judges" if you will. After all, its human nature. If one was to molest a next door neighbor would you seriously not judge? I believe it would be almost instantanious that you would cast judgment.
[/quote]
i dont think i understand your point.

(on a side note, im proud of us... we have had a good discussion, about a* really sticky subject*, without anyone really losing it or insulting on a personal level. am proud to have been a part of this thread.)
[/quote]

Yeah, literally


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Has anyone here ever watched the show on HBO regarding the brothels in NV. a lot of those women have no issues what so ever and they are making bank and I mean bank. I argee that many street walkers that do it illegal may have been forced into at a young age. But if it was made legal that would change. NV is a good place to see that change, while it is illegal in Vegas in is legal in other parts. The ones who do it by the law, make money and dont seem to have shaddy past.

I would like to say one thing, if I see that someone is doing something wrong, like hurting someone, then of course I would judge them and call the cops. I am not going to lie and say I have not cast judgement on someone cause I have. But if i see wrong and it is aganist the law, I do report it.

On a side note, I know quite a few stripper bars that are very nice corp. areas. Stripper bars are not always in bad areas.


----------



## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

taking into account that morals and ethics can be very subjective and looking at the overall debate in this thread i feel the thread maker has failed in proving liberalism is a downfall of anything, much less morals.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

diddye said:


> Link
> 
> One of the reasons I'm conservative is that I believe that our society is slowly getting worse each year. We've accepted ideas as "progressive" and called them "equal rights" to give them a softer tone. Homosexuality is normal now, doing drugs is normal and there's many that want to legalize it and tax drug use. We're in a constant struggle to see if killing babies is right. Divorce is rampant, even easy. Sex in the media is becoming more graphic and accepted. We rationalize murder and instead of punishing them, we blame it on their childhood or circumstances as if they could not control it. Religion is now considered narrow-minded, extreme, and irrational. People are more selfish, materialistic, and greedy. Instead of rewarding hard work, we're trying to tax hard workers and give to the "lazy" or less fortunate. Now, the most liberal state in the Union is taking another step towards Sodom and Gomorrah.


homosexuality is the right of someone to be who they were born as. you can't deny someone what they are. not only that, who the f*ck are you or anyone to tell them what's right or wrong? just because it's not right by you, doesnt mean that you are god, and you get to tell them that they are bad people.

[/quote]

Let me get this straight too. I never said I'm god but I believe their lifestyle is immoral. Where does that come from? Basically every religious order as well as the laws of nature. I don't hate these people because everybody is a person. I have two friends that live this lifestyle and I don't bash them. They struggle with this but you don't see me attacking them all the time. I let my beliefs be known and they accept that. By your analogy, do you think doing coke is wrong? I'm sure you do and who are you to tell them its right or wrong? I'm sure you don't care if they do it or not but the point of this is the compassion involved. Laws are passed to help protect the people sometimes. You can complain that I'm a bible thumper but face the reality, our country is based on Christian values(used as a guideline). Every president we had has either been a Christian or a Catholic. Do you ever think that an atheist will be elected in the near future? Or a Muslim? The reason people like these values is that-they give the person a basic set of morals.
[/quote]

and what about them? do you hunt? im sure a lot of same sex people think hunting is immoral in this day and age. what do you say to that? there are a lot of immoral things that a lot of people do, but do you know why they're immoral? because they're immoral to "some" people. gays have always been there, they're just more open about it now. do you think that same sex people WANT to come out and get ridiculed by people like you? most likely not. they WANT to get equal rights as people like you. unfortunately you've been duped into believing that gay people are going to turn everyone gay, including yourself! gay people do their own thing, and im cool with it, just like im cool with the crack whore down the road doing lines of coke, shooting heroin into her arm, and overdosing until she dies...i couldn't give a rats ass. she's chosen to lead her own life the way she wants to lead it, and im not going to tell her to shape up, because in reality, she never will!

christian values? "in god we trust" "one nation under god" who is god? god could be something a lot different to you than it is to me...who are you to dictate that my god is inferior to your god, or that the united states of america doesn't give me equality based on a difference of opinion? i was brought up roman catholic, so i have a first hand understanding of how judgemental religious people are, ESPECIALLY catholics. its really shining through in this thread. why can't you just let people live? what is so terribly wrong with your life that you have to seek out the bad in others (percieved bad, because what's bad to you isn't so bad to someone else). why can't you just be happy? THAT is the major problem with america these days...the ROOT cause of all the issues you've stated, because if people were all happy, those issues wouldn't be there. instead people find ways to be unhappy, or to let something consume their lives.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

^

And that my friends is my point in liberalism. People are too scared to offend others, wants to make everybody happy and equal at the cost of doing whats right. Yes, we should do our best to accept other people's fallacies but that doesn't mean we should throw morals out the window. Liberals believe that everybody should do what they want. Some even call political views a religion. People today are too afraid to offend others and as a cause lose what makes society decent.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> ^
> 
> And that my friends is my point in liberalism. People are too scared to offend others, wants to make everybody happy and equal at the cost of doing whats right. Yes, we should do our best to accept other people's fallacies* but that doesn't mean we should throw morals out the window*. Liberals believe that everybody should do what they want. Some even call political views a religion. People today are too afraid to offend others and as a cause lose what makes society decent.


Actually, noone is suggesting you throw your morals out of the window, just that you don't force them onto others.

Besides, I thought according to conservatives here, the point of liberalism was to grow government and increase regulation - i.e. the exact thing that you're arguing for here.


----------



## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

I feel like there is a gross misunderstanding between a lot of people here.

I am a staunch conservative and believe wholeheartedly that prostitution should remain illegal. Not because I care about who is having sex with who, I frankly don't give a damn about that. I don't believe its any of my business.

The reasons I think it should remain illegal have more to do with the industry itself. Making it legal gives more power to the 'pimps', people who are then empowered to 'buy' and 'sell' women, taking complete advantage of them. Legalizing prostitution will also do nothing more than increase sex trafficking in the states. Imagine being a woman kidnapped from mexico or canada or etc, and shipped to the states to become nothing more than a sex slave. Also legalizing it increases supply, and hence, increases demand. If brothels are legalized, they will be required to undergo health checks and register and etc etc. While this isn't a bad thing at all, it will just drive more women to the streets because they don't want to go through all that. They don't want to be controlled by all the new sex 'business' that will be occurring.



> In the Netherlands, women in prostitution point out that legalization or decriminalization of the sex industry cannot erase the stigma of prostitution but, instead, makes women more vulnerable to abuse because they must register and lose anonymity. Thus, the majority of women in prostitution still choose to operate illegally and underground. Members of Parliament who originally supported the legalization of brothels on the grounds that this would liberate women are now seeing that legalization actually reinforces the oppression of women (Daley, 2001: A1).


This would not protect these women like I think you guys all think it would. Legalizing it would only do more harm to these poor women.



> The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International (CATW) has conducted 2 major studies on sex trafficking and prostitution, interviewing almost 200 victims of commercial sexual exploitation. In these studies, women in prostitution indicated that prostitution establishments did little to protect them, regardless of whether they were in legal or illegal establishments. "The only time they protect anyone is to protect the customers."
> 
> In a CATW 5-country study that interviewed 146 victims of international trafficking and local prostitution, 80% of all women interviewed suffered physical violence from pimps and buyers) and endured similar and multiple health effects from the violence and sexual exploitation (Raymond et al: 2002).


With the advent of legalization in countries that have decriminalized the sex industry, many men who would not risk buying women for sex now see prostitution as acceptable. When the legal barriers disappear, so too do the social and ethical barriers to treating women as sexual commodities. Legalization of prostitution sends the message to new generations of men and boys that women are sexual commodities and that prostitution is harmless fun. I fail to see how, even in today's progressive society, one can view treating women as sexual commodities as harmless. It's about respect.



> As men have an excess of "sexual services" that are offered to them, women must compete to provide services by engaging in anal sex, sex without condoms, bondage and domination and other proclivities demanded by the clients. Once prostitution is legalized, all holds are barred. Women's reproductive capacities are sellable products, for example. A whole new group of clients find pregnancy a sexual turn-on and demand breast milk in their sexual encounters with pregnant women. Specialty brothels are provided for disabled men, and State-employed caretakers who are mostly women must take these men to the brothels if they wish to go (Sullivan and Jeffreys: 2001).





> Advertisements line the highways of Victoria offering women as objects for sexual use and teaching new generations of men and boys to treat women as subordinates. Businessmen are encouraged to hold their corporate meetings in these clubs where owners supply naked women on the table at tea breaks and lunchtime.


This line of work is illegal NOT because of having sex with people is immoral, its illegal because of the industry itself.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> ^
> 
> And that my friends is my point in liberalism. People are too scared to offend others, wants to make everybody happy and equal at the cost of doing whats right. Yes, we should do our best to accept other people's fallacies* but that doesn't mean we should throw morals out the window*. Liberals believe that everybody should do what they want. Some even call political views a religion. People today are too afraid to offend others and as a cause lose what makes society decent.


Actually, noone is suggesting you throw your morals out of the window, just that you don't force them onto others.

Besides, I thought according to conservatives here, the point of liberalism was to grow government and increase regulation - i.e. the exact thing that you're arguing for here.
[/quote]

How many time are you going to throw that around when we already replied to you. For one thing, limited government is a basic tenet that isn't the be all end all policy.Small government shouldn't compromise the safety and general well-being of a country. The job of the government is to provide services, keep order, etc. In a way, isn't creating a law to control prostitution a form of increased regulation? They will probably regulate how prostitutes get tested, how much they get taxed (Hey maybe they'll be above $250,000!), how often they can work, etc. How you like them apples Jewelz?


----------



## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

C0Rey said:


> taking into account that morals and ethics can be very subjective and looking at the overall debate in this thread i feel the thread maker has failed in proving liberalism is a downfall of anything, much less morals.


agreed. i'm sure there are many liberals on this board that have "strong" morals, that is in the eyes of the original poster. the original argument is like, "george bush is the worst president ever, he is a conservative, therefore conservatism is the downfall of (insert anything negative here)". i actually agree with much of the original post, in terms of some things that are a little alarming in our society, but it's way too shortsighted, and it takes a partisan, black and white approach...we vs. them, good/bad, right wrong...though those things seem to be a conservative trait (lol). its a backwards argument. like, poverty causes crime, but since conservatives are greedy, pro corporate, anti-democratic thugs, they are responsible for crime (not a real argument).


----------



## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

your kinding right?

Do you have any idea of all the checks these people have to do?
Why dont you look up the information on the one who do it legal in NV.
They are checked and rechecked, say no, no human sex trafficking to worrie about.

and how the hell are men going to take advantage of a women who enters this line of work legally? sh*t, it's the other way around, guys puts up $2000 to $3000 for a hour of happy time, I think the guy is getting the short end of the stick here.

So I assume you are then aganist porn movies then?


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

primetime3wise said:


> taking into account that morals and ethics can be very subjective and looking at the overall debate in this thread i feel the thread maker has failed in proving liberalism is a downfall of anything, much less morals.


agreed. i'm sure there are many liberals on this board that have "strong" morals, that is in the eyes of the original poster. the original argument is like, "george bush is the worst president ever, he is a conservative, therefore conservatism is the downfall of (insert anything negative here)". i actually agree with much of the original post, in terms of some things that are a little alarming in our society, but it's way too shortsighted, and it takes a partisan, black and white approach...we vs. them, good/bad, right wrong...though those things seem to be a conservative trait (lol). its a backwards argument. like, poverty causes crime, but since conservatives are greedy, pro corporate, anti-democratic thugs, they are responsible for crime (not a real argument).
[/quote]

Yes, what I originally posted is a blanket statement and by no means is simply being a liberal immoral. However, I'm not going to post a book on every detail of what I believe in my opening post because nobody is going to read it and I don't want to waste that much time. My point is that liberalism in general is making people slowly accept things that would otherwise be viewed as "wrong". A divorce or abortion in our parents time would be unthinkable. Today, there are girls that are 18 that already had 3-4 abortions, men going on their 5th divorce as if its like trying on a shirt.

BTW, George Bush is hardly a poster child for the conservative party.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

sadboy said:


> your kinding right?
> 
> Do you have any idea of all the checks these people have to do?
> Why dont you look up the information on the one who do it legal in NV.
> ...


if anything if it were legal in more places the rates those girls could cahrge would start to drop drastically.

im suprised no one has brought up elliot spitzer or the group that was running those girls or the NY Confidential prostitution bust. those were professionally run groups. but just like any other ndustry it would require regulation and there would definately be proprieters that abuse the regulations. just like scummy car dealers or farmers that hire illegals, factories that hire illegals ect ect


----------



## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

diddye said:


> taking into account that morals and ethics can be very subjective and looking at the overall debate in this thread i feel the thread maker has failed in proving liberalism is a downfall of anything, much less morals.


agreed. i'm sure there are many liberals on this board that have "strong" morals, that is in the eyes of the original poster. the original argument is like, "george bush is the worst president ever, he is a conservative, therefore conservatism is the downfall of (insert anything negative here)". i actually agree with much of the original post, in terms of some things that are a little alarming in our society, but it's way too shortsighted, and it takes a partisan, black and white approach...we vs. them, good/bad, right wrong...though those things seem to be a conservative trait (lol). its a backwards argument. like, poverty causes crime, but since conservatives are greedy, pro corporate, anti-democratic thugs, they are responsible for crime (not a real argument).
[/quote]

Yes, what I originally posted is a blanket statement and by no means is simply being a liberal immoral. However, I'm not going to post a book on every detail of what I believe in my opening post because nobody is going to read it and I don't want to waste that much time. My point is that liberalism in general is making people slowly accept things that would otherwise be viewed as "wrong". A divorce or abortion in our parents time would be unthinkable. *Today, there are girls that are 18 that already had 3-4 abortions, men going on their 5th divorce as if its like trying on a shirt.*
BTW, George Bush is hardly a poster child for the conservative party.
[/quote]

i wouldnt want to meet the kind of girls you know of then, but it does not mean its morally correct to ban abortion, nor letting people get divorces etc. maybe your christian values are at risk in this modern times, but your pointing to extremes and i feel that people as individuals and as a society are better off in a liberal world. you may ask why. and its cause i come from a country where the most conservative parties would be liberal by your standards and i think we have a winning ( not perfect ) recipe here. again i dont think the extremes should be viewed as the norm and we should listen to the humanistic and ethical believes that are found in most sound humans.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> ^
> 
> And that my friends is my point in liberalism. People are too scared to offend others, wants to make everybody happy and equal at the cost of doing whats right. Yes, we should do our best to accept other people's fallacies* but that doesn't mean we should throw morals out the window*. Liberals believe that everybody should do what they want. Some even call political views a religion. People today are too afraid to offend others and as a cause lose what makes society decent.


Actually, noone is suggesting you throw your morals out of the window, just that you don't force them onto others.

Besides, I thought according to conservatives here, the point of liberalism was to grow government and increase regulation - i.e. the exact thing that you're arguing for here.
[/quote]

How many time are you going to throw that around when we already replied to you. For one thing, limited government is a basic tenet that isn't the be all end all policy.Small government shouldn't compromise the safety and general well-being of a country. The job of the government is to provide services, keep order, etc. In a way, isn't creating a law to control prostitution a form of increased regulation? They will probably regulate how prostitutes get tested, how much they get taxed (Hey maybe they'll be above $250,000!), how often they can work, etc. How you like them apples Jewelz?
[/quote]

Great. Tax them like any other business. I guess if you want to more conservative, we'll just outlaw every profitable business so we don't have to regulate it, right ?

And again, with the rights to your moral argument that you didn't respond to you certainly have the right to possess certain morals and live your life according to them, as well as pass them on to your children. I command you for it but I would appreciate it if you don't try to force them onto others. Noone's asking you to throw your morals "out of the window", simply live and let live. I have my own basic set of morals and I don't demand that everybody else adapt them.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

christian morals?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/22/childp...h.ap/index.html


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> christian morals?
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/22/childp...h.ap/index.html


Christians aren't any better in terms of crime. That doesn't change the values. Humans are flawed. I support what Christians believe. Are Christians hypocrites? Yes, and thats why many of you probably aren't religious. For for every child rapist that claims to be Christian, there's a Billy Graham out there.

BTW, Nismo, your article reads more like a cult then a Christian.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> christian morals?
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/22/childp...h.ap/index.html


"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" Matthew 7:15

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 Paul warns of "false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ." We shouldn't be surprised at this, writes Paul, because "Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

"Take heed that no once deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5, 11-12). He knew that false teachers would arise who would teach a distorted, corrupted version of Christianity.

Better read your Bible and know what a true Christian really is.


----------



## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

wow we are quoting the bible now. well thats it for this topic.


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

C0Rey said:


> wow we are quoting the bible now. well thats it for this topic.


Basically, he's using those verses to prove that we should judge people by their actions not their words. They may claim to be Christian but if their actions don't prove it, don't believe it.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

C0Rey said:


> wow we are quoting the bible now. well thats it for this topic.


Nismo brought up Christian Morals, I didn't. No where in my previous posts I mention Christianity or Christian morals. I'm not going to sit back and not defend true Christianity.


----------



## Uncle Jesse (Feb 18, 2007)

diddye said:


> Nice nismo, too bad I'm not in denial and know there are gays everywhere. Besides, its off topic. Homosexuality should be a different thread.


Your the one who brought it up in your original post of things that you are morally outraged over.

I'm not in denial when I say that a persons sexuality doesn't bother me at all. It's none of my business.

If my own child was gay it wouldn't bother me either. I believe people are what they are and don't deserve second class treatment.
[/quote]

i definately feel that people who accept others for who they are and dont expect them to live any differently have much better morals.
[/quote]

I guess I view it from a religious standpoint(and I know most of you aren't religious). Just because a person is religious doesn't mean that they don't care about those other people. God says that people like prostitutes need love the most. Still, nobody (except doktordet) answered my question, so I'm going to call you out. Jewelz, nismo, gamgenius,sadboy, bake,bullsnake, febsalien, do you agree that we should legalize prostitution? As a sidebar, how many of you are liberals(hence the topic of my thread)?
[/quote]

HELL YES!
Now does that mean I'm gonna go get one? Probably not.
I'm not going to lie I have no clue what liberal is. If it means not controlling peoples every action then I guess sign me up.
I'm not saying things like drugs, prostitutes, or gays are ok, I'm just saying it's not my place to tell a stranger how they should live their life.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

that's it! you can beat a dead horse until the end of time, but it's always gonna be dead. the fact is, diddye and i have fundamental disagreements. do what you want to do...diddye, what would you do if i came to your house and told you that you're ugly?


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> that's it! you can beat a dead horse until the end of time, but it's always gonna be dead. the fact is, diddye and i have fundamental disagreements. do what you want to do...diddye, what would you do if i came to your house and told you that you're ugly?


Prop 7 might be dead, but here's Prop 8

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_...arriage_schools


----------



## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

I'd tell you rider that you're right. I'm ugly.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The legalization of anything has an economic effect on the middle class. That is just the way it is. Non-violent crime is a cash cow for this country...legalize it all....and they will need to find another way to make up that revenue. That is going to effect the non-drug using, non-whore using people that lead a relatively mundane life by either increased traffic fines, increase property tax, increased income tax, increased sales tax.....something is going to increase to make up for lost revenue.

I couldnt really care less what people do...but I dont like paying for it.


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

diddye said:


> I'd tell you rider that you're right. I'm ugly.


exactly...and in the end, you wouldnt give a rats ass because it's so miniscule that you wouldnt worry your life with it.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> The legalization of anything has an economic effect on the middle class. That is just the way it is. Non-violent crime is a cash cow for this country...legalize it all....and they will need to find another way to make up that revenue. That is going to effect the non-drug using, non-whore using people that lead a relatively mundane life by either increased traffic fines, increase property tax, increased income tax, increased sales tax.....something is going to increase to make up for lost revenue.
> 
> I couldnt really care less what people do...but I dont like paying for it.


while you would be shutting down one revenue stream by not collecting fines you would open up another by taxing the services.

also liscensing and fines for vioolating regulations then the police could spend less time setting up stings to arrest the guy that diddey wont let get a divorce and more time persuing violent crimes, gangs ect

it would be nice to have legal rub and tug


----------



## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> The legalization of anything has an economic effect on the middle class. That is just the way it is. Non-violent crime is a cash cow for this country...legalize it all....and they will need to find another way to make up that revenue. That is going to effect the non-drug using, non-whore using people that lead a relatively mundane life by either increased traffic fines, increase property tax, increased income tax, increased sales tax.....something is going to increase to make up for lost revenue.
> 
> I couldnt really care less what people do...but I dont like paying for it.


while you would be shutting down one revenue stream by not collecting fines you would open up another by taxing the services.

also liscensing and fines for vioolating regulations then the police could spend less time setting up stings to arrest the guy that diddey wont let get a divorce and more time persuing violent crimes, gangs ect

it would be nice to have legal rub and tug
[/quote]

ok, the government, which is comprised of a lot of cops, would never enact legislation which would cut police jobs. no more stings, no more special drug units, no more drug dog training, no more drug experts, no more drug cops. that's a LOOOT of laid off, pissed off cops. secondly, i dont think taxing it in a rational degree would create half the revenue that drugs create already.


----------



## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> The legalization of anything has an economic effect on the middle class. That is just the way it is. Non-violent crime is a cash cow for this country...legalize it all....and they will need to find another way to make up that revenue. That is going to effect the non-drug using, non-whore using people that lead a relatively mundane life by either increased traffic fines, increase property tax, increased income tax, increased sales tax.....something is going to increase to make up for lost revenue.
> 
> I couldnt really care less what people do...but I dont like paying for it.


while you would be shutting down one revenue stream by not collecting fines you would open up another by taxing the services.

also liscensing and fines for vioolating regulations then the police could spend less time setting up stings to arrest the guy that diddey wont let get a divorce and more time persuing violent crimes, gangs ect

it would be nice to have legal rub and tug
[/quote]

ok, the government, which is comprised of a lot of cops, would never enact legislation which would cut police jobs. no more stings, no more special drug units, no more drug dog training, no more drug experts, no more drug cops. that's a LOOOT of laid off, pissed off cops. secondly, i dont think taxing it in a rational degree would create half the revenue that drugs create already.
[/quote]

i wasnt talking about drugs i was talking about prostitutes and does anyone thing cocain or heroin would ever be legal agian? hell no those jobs arent going anywhere


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

First off, WOW this thread has turned out to be a fantastic discussion/debate conducted with maturity and respect for each others' views. I am very impressed... round of applause for everyone!











diddye said:


> You guys are exactly what I'm talking about. Liberalism makes people more accepting of immoral acts. For sadboy, bake etc who said "dont live near them", prostitution is currently illegal in SF. So....do you advocate those people moving out because some hooker started working their corner? Would you like your kids influenced by them?
> 
> Bullsnake:
> 
> ...


Ummm, yes you did....
[/quote]

Thanks for only highlighting part of the post. Why didn't you include the rest? Why is it a bad marriage? If there wasn't abuse, why couldn't they use counseling? What part of better or worse didn't they understand? I don't want my kids watching homosexuals making out on network TV(for clarification, MTV can do what they want, its just an example). They can talk all they want about it as long as it isn't too graphic. Can it pass the PG/PG13 rating for a movie?
[/quote]
Marriage: I only highlighted part of this post because divorce based on "cheating, abuse or anything out of the ordinary especially if it involves a kid" are obviously valid grounds which don't require debate. However, if counseling is attempted without resolution I feel that people should be entitled to part peacefully. If the couple can't live harmoniously, it doesn't seem prudent for them to be forced to remain together. I think that the clause 'for better or worse' refers more to situations than feelings. For instance, if a man loses his job, the wife should not be asking for a divorce but should be helping him get another job or trying to get some income to supplement the tough times.

Gay: "They can talk all they want about it as long as it isn't too graphic. Can it pass the PG/PG13 rating for a movie?" I think that is already the case for both gay and straight subjects on network TV. The FCC already oversees that all sexual content is monitored and held to a standard for network and upper stations. That is why there is a warning at the beginning of shows which depict strong sexual content, language, and violence. You were forewarned so it is your responsibility to prevent your kids from watching.

As for the topic of this thread, I feel that it is within reason for SF to consider the legalization of prostitution. After attempting to ban alcohol, Prohibition was repealed as people realized that alcohol itself was not bad. People realized that laws regulating the age, time, and place of consumption were more valuable than an outright ban. People also realized that they could benefit more by taxing alcohol rather than the expenses required to keep it illegal. I think the same can be applied to prostitution, with thoughtful contemplation of the laws enacted to regulate it. No one here is advocating that prostitution be legalized carte blanche. It seems to be working in Nevada and that is why San Fran is considering the adoption of similar laws. If it doesn't work out, it will be repealed and things will go back to the way they were. There can't be harm in trying.

Society needs to be allowed to try new ideas (for better or worse) in order to discover new and/or better ways of dealing with the changing demands of the _general_ population. It is important to note that I am referring to the general population because there will always be far-left and far-right opinions which are not fully satisfied. The US Constituition was intentionally non-specific so that the an evolving society could interpret it (as guidelines). After 200-something years, it is still valued today because Amendments to it have allowed it remain effective and relevant.

Sorry for the long post, but I was inspired all the thoughtful responses in this thread


----------

