# Is this an Irritans or a Marginatus Piranha - pLEASE oNLY iF yOU kNOW&



## piranha9

oNLY iF yOU kNOW!!!​
Is this an Irritans or a Marginatus Piranha , Im asking because im thinking of selling this guy on Ebay 





































Thanks


----------



## piranha9

This is his new pic's , he is about 4"-4.5" He is so aggressive that i cant open the tank cover's to feed him, pic's are taken with Nokia N95


----------



## piranha9

Video on how i feed him , as soon as i open the covers he wants to jump out of the tank:


http://www.zshare.net/download/6090823791a8ee90/


----------



## Piranha Guru

The apparent lack of a terminal tail band points to irritans...those last pictures aren't really clear enough to tell for sure though. I've got both species near that size and the eye, tail, and fins seem more irritans like IMO.


----------



## piranha9

BioTeAcH said:


> The apparent lack of a terminal tail band points to irritans...those last pictures aren't really clear enough to tell for sure though. I've got both species near that size and the eye, tail, and fins seem more irritans like IMO.


Thanks alot


----------



## Piranha Guru

Lighting in video doesn't help either, but picture progression and video reinforce irritans.


----------



## piranha9

BioTeAcH said:


> Lighting in video doesn't help either, but picture progression and video reinforce irritans.


yes i don't have enough light in the tank , they are blue instead of white !!!


----------



## Piranha Guru

Marginatus and irritans are very similar in appearance when small. My irritans changed much less as it grew from 2-5" than my marg did (similar to your photo progression). My marg looks like a totally different fish then it did 1" ago, let alone 2 or 3. It started out with yellow fins that turned orange-red and now dusky with a hint of orange. At about 6" now, all major fins appear trimmed in black (terminal tail edge is thicker), the eye seems to even have an orange tinge, and the fish just seems darker and the spots more even. At around 5", the irritans still appears silver with a much more red anal fin like your fish and clear eyes (maybe a slight yellow tinge). I'm sure tank setup and lighting influences their appearance, but they are both in planted tanks with the same colored substrate. Both are rare and desirable species.


----------



## No0dles

i would go with IRRITAN definitely


----------



## hastatus

I personnally would not venture a guess without knowing where it was collected, largely because the photos are low quality and these are young specimens. Having said that, S. marginatus does not have yellow eyes, S. irritans does.


----------



## Grosse Gurke

IMO...marginatus. Obviously this is just a guess without the collection point.....but I have kept both...and the body shape is all wrong for irritans...and the hooked anal fin is right on for martinatus. None of the irritans I had ever got a hooked anal fin.

Must my opinion.


----------



## Piranha Guru

Grosse Gurke said:


> IMO...marginatus. Obviously this is just a guess without the collection point.....but I have kept both...and the body shape is all wrong for irritans...and the hooked anal fin is right on for martinatus. None of the irritans I had ever got a hooked anal fin.
> 
> Must my opinion.


I was curious as to what you might think. You could be right...I noticed the "hook" too, but thought it was exaggerated due to color differences, angle, and lighting. That "hook" and the possibility of pigment in the tail fin are what's keeping me from being 100% convinced it is an irritans. I think the lighting and image quality is really making it hard to see some important features. I wish I would have documented my marg and irritans' growth better with pictures to compare.


----------



## hastatus

The "hooked" appearance might have a small value, but unfortunately, that's not the end all on that fishes discription. If I was to just guess like everyone else, I would also speculate that it might be marginatus just on the fins alone. But unfortunately, I don't like guessing.


----------



## Grosse Gurke

hastatus said:


> The "hooked" appearance might have a small value, but unfortunately, that's not the end all on that fishes discription. If I was to just guess like everyone else, I would also speculate that it might be marginatus just on the fins alone. But unfortunately, I don't like guessing.


I understand your position Frank...and appreciate that you dont waver. I do love the freedom that comes from being a simple hobbyists and not falling under those restriction


----------



## hastatus

> I understand your position Frank...and appreciate that you dont waver. I do love the freedom that comes from being a simple hobbyists and not falling under those restriction


I know, makes bigfoot more real for you eh?


----------



## Grosse Gurke

hastatus said:


> I know, makes bigfoot more real for you eh?


I only post about what I see...whether real or perceived....and I am yet to see any Yeti running around Portland.


----------



## hastatus

> I only post about what I see...whether real or perceived....and I am yet to see any Yeti running around Portland.


You must not have seen our governor.


----------



## rhomkeeper

i own / have owned, several specimens of both marginatus and irritans and your fish looks alot like my marginatus did at 4"-5", and nothing like my irritans did. my irritans had much smaller spotting and a more elongated body. only my opinion but i'm pretty sure that is not irritans, but like frank said, if you don't know where it was collected from you'll never be 100% sure.


----------



## orhan dağcı

İn my opinion,this is Marginatus.İf it was İrritans;it must been more elongated and have small more spots.
Great fish,enjoy

Orhan DAĞCI


----------



## aquascape

I have to agree with Jeff, both the anal fin and the dorsal fin are to high for Irritan, also the body is way off. Does it have red eyes? hard to see from the pic, Marginatus do not have red eyes. That curved long anal fin occurs in Juvinile Marginatus.
My 2 cents. But then again i do believe in the Jersey devil.








Pedro


----------



## hastatus

> aquascape Posted Yesterday, 10:12 PM
> I have to agree with Jeff, both the anal fin and the dorsal fin are to high for Irritan, also the body is way off. Does it have red eyes? hard to see from the pic, Marginatus do not have red eyes. That curved long anal fin occurs in Juvinile Marginatus.
> My 2 cents. *But then again i do believe in the Jersey devil. *
> Pedro


Scientifically speaking, I still think its the water you guys drink.


----------



## Ja'eh

Grosse Gurke said:


> IMO...marginatus. Obviously this is just a guess without the collection point.....but I have kept both...and the body shape is all wrong for irritans...and the hooked anal fin is right on for martinatus. None of the irritans I had ever got a hooked anal fin.
> 
> Must my opinion.


I agree with GG 100% plus I don't know if it's because of the size but the color of the eyes appear to be clear not yellow as it most likely would be if it were s. irritans but I guess that could be because the fish is so young too.


----------



## aquascape

Frank you are right Jersey water do, does, have an impact on us.. see what I mean? Frank that is a Juvi marginatus and if you have a problem wtih that talk to my cousin Vinny.







lol


----------



## hastatus

> aquascape Posted Today, 02:28 AM
> Frank you are right Jersey water do, does, have an impact on us.. see what I mean? Frank that is a Juvi marginatus and if you have a problem wtih that talk to my cousin Vinny. lol


Wasn't your cousin Vinny locked up for contempt?


----------

