# finally rockin the SW tank



## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

Started my 24 gallon cube this week and have a few questions.

when I set up the rock, do I want to kind of put it towards the back of the tank?

I want the powerhead to flow over the rock?

how long does it take to cycle, if I used all cured rock and live sand?

temp is 82, is that good?

10 hours of light?

sorry for the newb questions but I want to do it right and not half azz.

Thanks GG for responding to all the pm's on setting up the filter!

thanks to all in advance...


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> Started my 24 gallon cube this week and have a few questions.
> 
> when I set up the rock, do I want to kind of put it towards the back of the tank?
> 
> ...


rock positioning is totally up to you, there are a few things to keep in mind like what type of coral you plan on having and how it grows, and keeping enough room between the rock and the glass to be able to clean. where the tank is positioned in relation to how you will see it most frequently is another consideration. will it be viewable from all three sides? and just testing the effect the rock has on the flow patterns or if the rock limits the places you can set up your powerheads oor interfears with the return or overflow.

82 is kind of high and doesnt leave much room for error if it were to get any hotter from the lights. 78-80 is perfectly fine and gives you a few degrees before you get into the danger zone if a heater flips out or the lights combined with day time temps in the house get higher. some fluctuation a a degree or two over teh course of several hours is usually not a problem you want to avoid any kind of fast changes.

tank cycling varies could be 2 weeks could be 6 only way to be sure is to test. really marine tanks go through several "cycles" innitially you have the normal cycle to build up bacteria to get the amonia break down going this is the one everyone pretty much knows about and test for. in marine tanks you will also experiance a series of algae blooms, first you get diatoms this will look like a brown dust, next you will see green algaes take off, then the coralines will start. this can span a period of months to a year and usually is considered part of the maturing process. in most cases the limitiing factor in algae blooms is the amount of nutrients in the water so somewhat frequent water changes with RO, RO/DI or at the least distilled water are fairly important. even cured rock will have some die off when its introduced to an unmatured tank and this will release nutrients in the water.

light length can vary depending on the intensity of the fixture/bulb and what you have in the tank. 10 hours sould be fine some people run 12 - 14 hours.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

Thanks a mill Niz,

Turned the heat down.

Yes the tank will be visible from all three sides, should I place it more in the middle? how much flow do I want? some, or a lot? directly over the rock?

what is a average price per pound for rock?

Did I really need the live sand?

thanks bud


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> Thanks a mill Niz,
> 
> Turned the heat down.
> 
> ...


the most common way to rate the amount of flow is the mutiplier of water movement in relation to tank size so if your return pump is rated for 500 gph then you have roughly 21x flow if you add a koralia nano then you would have around 30x times flow. this is about as accurate though as using the old watts per gallon for lighting. With modern power heads like the koralias you get alot of wate movement but its not particularly fast moving on the lower gph rated pumps.. it also makes a difference with the types of corals you have. some need lots of flow some wont open if its too much or will even detach from the rock. i would angle the returns or power heads to maximize the overall movement in the tank by directing them torwards the open areas of the tank in intersecting directions to get as much water movement which should ultimately result in sufficient water movement around the rock. if you notice that the flow is causeing debris to pile up in one area or not make it to the overflow then make adjustments adjust. in most cases as long as your not causing the sand to shift too much then your good and as long as you have atleast 20 - 50x turnover you should be good.

rock can run between 2 and 10 bucks pound. the cost per pound on most online places are cheaper but you have to factor in shipping cost and teh fact its nice to be able to hand pick it especially when you have a small tank to work with but some of the better online retailers have packages specifically for nanos.

you dont need live sand, eventually it would be seeded by the live rock butgenerally it does add diversity if you get good live sand from a different source then you get the rock. like wise you also dont need to get all live rock you can get a few pounds of live rock and fill the rest ni with base rock, its a good way to save money and after 6 months to a year you wouldnt be able to tell the two apart.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

I tested my water today and it was good. Went and got four damsels(sp)? they been doing well and eating and seem to be doing fine. How long should I wait til start getting into good coral and fish? will these damsels send the tank thru another small cycle? went with all live rock and sand since dude gave me a good deal on it all. I think however like you said Niz, I will do base rock and reg sand when I jump up to the sw 55 gallon in the future.

I really like the dwarf lionfish, LFS said it was cool to keep him in a 24gallon but I never believe LFS. what u think?

I ll get some pics of this lil set up when I get it going with some more interesting stuff.

Thanks again bro


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> I tested my water today and it was good. Went and got four damsels(sp)? they been doing well and eating and seem to be doing fine. How long should I wait til start getting into good coral and fish? will these damsels send the tank thru another small cycle? went with all live rock and sand since dude gave me a good deal on it all. I think however like you said Niz, I will do base rock and reg sand when I jump up to the sw 55 gallon in the future.
> 
> I really like the dwarf lionfish, LFS said it was cool to keep him in a 24gallon but I never believe LFS. what u think?
> 
> ...


what kind of damsels did you get?

i would get rid of them before getting any other fish they are big time A-holes and will definately pick on and stress out just about any other fish.

if you want reef fish and coral i would not suggest a dwarf lion, plus a 24 is kind of small not necessarily in terms of space since they are fairly inactive but water volume lions will be messy and it would severly limit what ever other types of fish you could have becuase most acceptable reef fish for a 24 are small enough for the lion to eat. look for a dwarf angel, gobies, blennies, clowns. they all make great nano fish. research the gobies or blennies there are severalmain types the are either algae grazers, sand sifters or ones that do a bit of both i would avoid sand sifters and be aware that you will more then likely not have enough algae growth to keep up with the appitite of then. the fish might look small but int eh wild they would have an area of a couple square meters to live off of a 24 gallon tank is tiny for most marine fish..

have you planned out what types of corals you would like? definately do lot of research and come up with some kind of a plan, dont just buy what ever looks cool unless it fits in with the over all tank you want to have, some corals will etend sweeper tenticles at night that will sting other corals, some release toxins that others cannot tollerate ect.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

here is my lil tank man, still playing around with it. Yea the damsels are gonna go back to the store when I am ready to start adding. LFS told me I can get credit, just use them to cycle.

Reading a lot about all the different corals and stuff. Pretty interesting about waht you were saying

"some corals will extend sweeper tenticles at night that will sting other corals, some release toxins that others cannot tollerate ect".

thats crazy man... what are some names that you would reccomend me looking for, for a newbie SW guy?

thankS a lot bro, I do appreciate your time...


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

zoanthids 
mushrooms
xenia
star polyps

these are all pretty common easy to care for corals. there is alot of variety of colors with more of these, zoo's alone are pretty awesome. ive seen some zoo tanks that look insane and are fiarly easy to run.

ricordia can be a little bit tricky sometimes, but once you have the right conditions for them they look great.

this tank is 90 percent zoa's










another mostly zoas


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

Niz,

seems all the rock and some of the sand and also the glass and back panel are all turning brown. Does this mean its going thru its cycle? thanks...


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Curley said:


> Niz,
> 
> seems all the rock and some of the sand and also the glass and back panel are all turning brown. Does this mean its going thru its cycle? thanks...


Its probly an indicator its starting? You will go through several algae blooms through out the first year of having a SW tank... Keep up on your water changes with good quality RO/DI water!


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

thanks bro. So will the brown alage on the live rock go away on its own? /with water changes...


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Curley said:


> thanks bro. So will the brown alage on the live rock go away on its own? /with water changes...


It will grow, then die and be replaced with another type of algae most likely... on and off it will go through cycles of growth

Just keep up on those water changes with good RO/DI water and you should be fine... its when you use tap water, or slack that it gets bad and overtakes everything....


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

sounds like diatoms. yes its part of cycling maturing, is should go away as long as it does nto contiune to have food which means you need to do water changes with RO or RO/DI water to keep your nutrients down.

next you will likely see some green algaes start to grow.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

thanks fellaz. so do I want to wipe this stuff off as it comes on the back panel? whats the best water to get from the store? plain DI 1 gallon bottles?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> thanks fellaz. so do I want to wipe this stuff off as it comes on the back panel? whats the best water to get from the store? plain DI 1 gallon bottles?


that would be the best alternative but i would check with all the local fish stores, if you have a decent one in the area you should be able to buy atleast OR by the gallon , this is better then distilled. ultimately your better off getting and ro or ro/di filter, dont be scared off by the lfs prices on the big name brands you can get a decent smaller unit for around 100. if you figure water by the gallon will cost close to a dollar and then the gas to get it, you probalby go through 5 - 10 gallons a month it will just about pay for its self the first year, if you upgrade it will definately pay for its self the first year. just a thought


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

Niz I do appreciate all your time posting and helping this SW noob out.

Is there a good place online to get this Ro/di filter?

Also can you reccomend a test kit for SW that will do all.

thanks bud


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Curley said:


> Niz I do appreciate all your time posting and helping this SW noob out.
> 
> Is there a good place online to get this Ro/di filter?
> 
> ...


Heres a RO/DI on ebay for 132$ Clicky You would need the faucet adapter, or hose adapter if you couldnt just install it under your kitchen sink (it comes with the adapter to do that, so if thats your plan, dont buy the faucet or hose adapter) The only thing i dislike about that one is the filter housings are clear, mounted in the open it would grow algae, but installed under your sink it would be no problem

I use an API test kit, it does well side by side with more expensive ones... you will need one that monitors Nitrates, nitrites, phosphates, ph, Kh, and calcium atleast, magnesium and stronium (SP) are nice but not incredibly necessary...


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

right on Skunk! Thanks a mil man for your time to show me whats up...


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

THe live rock has some kind of sludge or slime on some of the rocks, is this normal?


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

sounds like itts a part of the cycle u can add a CUC in a few weeks whenn ur tanks more mature to clean all that crap up


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> THe live rock has some kind of sludge or slime on some of the rocks, is this normal?


is it a redish color?

pics?

you could redirect the water movement to sweep across the rocks more to loosen that stuff up and speed up its removal.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

first of all like give thanks Thug,420,and Nizmo!

Its a redish brown sludge on some and then not so sludgy on the others but more a brown algae. Two rocks have great amount of this nasty lookin sludge on em. It looks real thick. There is spots of red/brown alage on the glass and back panel.

Iam thinking that I need another powerhead along with the one I am running.

Pics when I get my camera back from the wife.

For some reason the last chamber of the filter where the heater and powerhead is running low on water. Could the sludge in the other chambers being slowing down the filter?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> first of all like give thanks Thug,420,and Nizmo!
> 
> Its a redish brown sludge on some and then not so sludgy on the others but more a brown algae. Two rocks have great amount of this nasty lookin sludge on em. It looks real thick. There is spots of red/brown alage on the glass and back panel.
> 
> ...


sounds like cyano bacteria. does it lift off the surface its attached to and wave slightly if there is any near by current?

there area several things that can happen here. it can continue to speard until it consumes the nutrients its feeding off of. you can increase water flow to make it more difficult for it to form. you have excess nutrients and arent using clean enough water or doing frequent enough water changes and it will continue to be a problem. another posible contributor is low ALK so test that, better to use a kkit that gives you an actual value not a color range as a result. like a dkh number. if its low your calcium magnesium and ph are likely low as well. i would reccomend water changes like 10 percent every other day for a week or so until your level balance out and nutrients come down. or get a two part suppliment like bionic, i used that for over a year and had excellent results until my calcium and alk demands made it too expensive. two parts are good becuase it makes it hard to get your levels out of balance.

alkalinity, test measure carbonate hardness, calcium, magnesiun are all forms of carbonates. they are also all building blocks for various marine life, snail shells clam shells, coraline algae, LPS and SPS and even leather all use it to build their skeletons. but they use in ratios like mixing paint it might be like 7 parts calicium 2 parts alk and 1 part magnesium. every different calcifying creature uses slightly different ratios, but ultimately these things are consumed by the tank. and if not kept in balance it becomes difficult to regain that balance or maintian levels, low alk will result in less stable or lower ph, and makes it harder to maintian calcium. low magnesium makes it harder to maintain proper alk.

the chamber being low sounds more like you need to top off the tank with fresh water. tanks that have an overlfow like nanos with built in filters do not drop the water level of the display as water evaporates the levels get lower in the chambers (or in the sump if its a larger tank)


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

After looking at badforthesport post on his water params and seeing 420's video and rereading your posts Niz...I think my culprit is tap water. I filtered it with a filter made for water to remove metals and chlorine and such but now I know its completly different,right? The sludge like you said lifts off the rock and waves in the current.

I did water testing today and this is what I got: I need to get the test kit that does it all but for now here is what I could do.

ammonia = 0 -.5

PH 8.3

Nitrate = almost at 0

where is the best place to get the water I need until I get RO mechanism?

the filter stages was plugged up at the entry by sand and gunk not allowing enough water to get in at once.

So after reading some more, I need to remove my sponges and replace with rubble or more bio balls?

1st stage-sponges
2nd stage-bio balls
3rd stage- ceramics and carbon
4th stage- heater and powerhead

what should I remove and what should I add. Read so many different things so Iam confused just a bit on what I should and shouldent use.

thanks bud, I appreciate the time you take to post!


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Curley said:


> After looking at badforthesport post on his water params and seeing 420's video and rereading your posts Niz...I think my culprit is tap water. I filtered it with a filter made for water to remove metals and chlorine and such but now I know its completly different,right? The sludge like you said lifts off the rock and waves in the current.
> 
> I did water testing today and this is what I got: I need to get the test kit that does it all but for now here is what I could do.
> 
> ...


check with your LFS that are heavy into amrine stuff ususlaly they will sell you RO by the jug or bucket if you bring one, i used to get it for 50-75 cents a gallon.

personally i would pull the somges, biobals and ceramic leave the carbon and maybe get some GFO phospahte remover like phosban or rowaphos. follow the directions and rinse it out well before adding, use the bag it comes with and replace it often. it will absorb the phospates but if you leave it in to long and it become saturated it will leach them out. i would not reccomend the aluminum based phosphate sponges like kents product, there has been extensive debat about it leaching aluminum into the water, there is very little question that the GFO products are just as effective and considered to be safer but also cost more.


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