# Hughes vs Gracie ????



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Who thinks he will beat Matt Hughes?


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm hoping I get to watch the fight, I know it should be pretty damn good. I'll be at my friends bachelor party all weekend so not sure if they allowed time to watch the fight. Hopefully they did.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Sure I'll be the first to bite and say no he won't :rasp:


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

i think royce will put up a way better fight than people r thinking


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

jiggy said:


> i think royce will put up a way better fight than people r thinking


I actually hope he wins


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

hughes has been proven to suck against guys with a good guard.. 
hughes will never tap royce..
hughes will notpass royces guard..
royces legs r long and he can control hughes' ground n pound..

royce has been fighting better quality guys in japan..
people say hughes is too strong blah blah blah.. but royce has fought guys like kimo and shamrock when they were juiced up on roids and royce only weighed 170..
royce put a beating on yoshida worse than wanderlei did, and yoshida is no chump..


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

yep, i'm thinking hughes will lose. look how bad he did against bj. and how little damage he did to charuto while in his guard, who also is an awesome bjj guy.

whatever the case, it should be an awesome fight. the rest of the card looks bad ass too.

WAR SAKARA.


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Its an awesome card for sure. Im looking forward to seeing Vera fight again, and it will be cool to see Dean Lister in the UFC. Its a shame Horn is on the prelim card, I always love to see him fight. Hopefully it will make the PPV. As for Gracie Hughes I think its a pickem. I completely agree with what is being said about Hughes. He has alot of trouble with good BJJ guys, especially guys who can work a good guard, as Royce obviously can. Also Royce is long which a short guy like Hughes will probably have some trouble with. Regardless, Im gonna pick Hughes anyways. I dont think Royce will be able to keep up with the pace Hughes is going to set, and I think on the feet, even though Hughes is so short, that Hughes will have an advantage and be able to do some damage standing up. Im picking Hughes via Unanimous decision.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

royce never gasses.. so i think he can keep up.. did u see him fight tokoro.. that was a really fast paced fight..


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Truth of it is I would really like to see Hughes win, but Im just not very confident. Its a close fight and could go either way but its a bad matchup for Hughes, and a favorable one for Royce. I guess if I really had to make an educated pick I'd pick Royce, but like I said Im picking Hughes anyways almost entirely because I want him to win it.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

When is that fight? I hope it's tomorrow my sat card got cooked and won't be ready tonight


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

gracie all da way


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

it's tomorrow night


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Most are predicting Hughes by a decision. Gracie only wins with a surprise submission.


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## Devon Amazon (Apr 3, 2005)

I either see matt smashing royce or spending 25 minutes in his guard.
I would love to see royce win, wouldnt put money on it but would love to see it happen.

Hughes via decision is my pick.

Other than that....looking forward to riggs vs swick and veras return


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Devon Amazon said:


> I either see matt smashing royce or spending 25 minutes in his guard.


Well that wont happen since its a 15 minute fight... but 15 minutes in guard wouldnt suprise me.


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## ripped2shreds (Apr 20, 2006)

I'm really excited about this match and the rest of the card. I don't think Matt can match Royce on the ground. As much as I respect Matt, I really dont think he will win this fight Im going to say= late first round submission by Matt (although iv have never seen him submit).


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## chomp chomp (Oct 28, 2003)

flip of the coin....

should be a good fight but I am going to say Gracie.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

Fargo said:


> Most are predicting Hughes by a decision. Gracie only wins with a surprise submission.


how will it be a surprise submission when we all kno thats what hes gonna go for


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Well for the record my $$ is on Hughes, TKO.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Fido said:


> Well for the record my $$ is on Hughes, TKO.


lmao, you must not know anything about royce or matt.


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## Devon Amazon (Apr 3, 2005)

ESPMike said:


> I either see matt smashing royce or spending 25 minutes in his guard.


Well that wont happen since its a 15 minute fight... but 15 minutes in guard wouldnt suprise me.
[/quote]
Is it not for the welterweight title????
I assumed it was....ok 15 minutes then


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

ripped2shreds said:


> I either see matt smashing royce or spending 25 minutes in his guard.


Well that wont happen since its a 15 minute fight... but 15 minutes in guard wouldnt suprise me.
[/quote]
Is it not for the welterweight title????
I assumed it was....ok 15 minutes then








[/quote]

No, that would have been awesome because there is little doubt in my mind it would reach a 4th and/or 5th round if it was a title fight, but Royce cannot make 170 pounds, so they agreed upon a special weight limit of 175. At the weigh ins today Hughes weighed in at 175.5 and Gracie at 175. Hughes is obviously more ripped then Gracie, but Royce TOWERS over Matt height wise. Heres some pics from todays weigh-ins:

View attachment 107792
View attachment 107793


View attachment 107794


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

jiggy said:


> Most are predicting Hughes by a decision. Gracie only wins with a surprise submission.


how will it be a surprise submission when we all kno thats what hes gonna go for
[/quote]

Because he'll do it when he looks like he's getting pounded into oblivion. Hughes is takin this one though.


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

Wouldnt height be a disadvantage?


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Man, they need to go back to the original format, where they fought indefinitely, like the Gracie/Severan fight, which would have gone to Severan by today's rules since it would have ended after 15 minutes. The longer time period would favor Royce.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

longer time periods favor anyone whos really coming to fight. not guys like hughes that stall out lay n pray decisions..


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## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2004)

Royce will win, but i think it'll come down to who ever makes a mistake first, the other will catch them in a submission and it'll be over.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

its almost time


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## Guru (Apr 20, 2004)

Matt Hughes takes it by ground and pound knockout in the first round. 
Gracie's arm looked pretty bad in that armbar.
This card was pretty sweet there were a lot of knock outs.


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

jiggy said:


> longer time periods favor anyone whos really coming to fight. not guys like hughes that stall out lay n pray decisions..










lay n pray indeed jiggy. I am shocked I must admit. Hughes dominated. His standup was crisp, although Royce looked better on the fett then I would have thought. On the ground though, Matt was able to hold position much better then I thought he'd be able to. Eventually Royce got desperate to get guard and gave his back. Big props to Hughes for doing a great job flattening him out and finishing the fight. Time for Hughes to get his props back for all the down talk about him.

Great card IMO. It was cool to see Dean Lister fight in the US, andSpencer Fischer put on a great show. Mike Swick keeps suprising and I'll finally have to admit now that he;s the real deal. I picked Diesel in that fight, but Swick took care of business. Also, my boy the Truth finally got to show that ground game a bit with the big tapout on Assuerio Silva. One of the better UFC cards tho, and 61 should be equally as good with Shamrock vs Tito and Silvia v Arlovski 3.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

holy sh*t, what an upset. i really expected royce to do better than that, but after matt took side control it was his game. seemed like that knee to the belly really took a toll on royce. and i was SUPER surprised that matt got that straight armbar from a kimura. i'd expect a guy like royce to see that one coming.

it was a good card though. sakara i also expected to do better. i mean, he's been training with the nog brothers so i thought his jiujitsu would be better. didn't really think he'd get caught in a triangle without fighting it. seemed like it was slapped on so fast that he didn't have time to react.

i missed the horn/sonnen and riggs/swick bouts (i had a feeling swick would take it, riggs isn't on swick's boxing level).. the lightweights put on a good show though.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

for those that missed the fight. here it is...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1zmgbFTe2Iw&sea...s%20vs%20gracie


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## ~Silly~Spy (Mar 12, 2005)

Kain said:


> for those that missed the fight. here it is...
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=1zmgbFTe2Iw&sea...s%20vs%20gracie


thanks Kain.

Man i can't believe that Gracie got worked like that.. i bet he is wishing right now that he didn't come back to ufc lol.


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

I think most people would have tapped out on Hugh's arm bar. Royce obviously has a very high pain threshold.

I thought the two fights aired after the Gracie-Hughes match were the best. I can't remember the names as I am new to watching but the match that ended with a flying knee to the face was quite good! Melvin Guillard (the reality show contestant) looks like he will be around for a long time. Very quick fighter!

UFC 61:
Tim Sylvia Vs Andrei Arlovski 3
Tito Ortiz VS Ken Shamrock 2


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

hyphen said:


> holy sh*t, what an upset. i really expected royce to do better than that, but after matt took side control it was his game. seemed like that knee to the belly really took a toll on royce. and i was SUPER surprised that matt got that straight armbar from a kimura. i'd expect a guy like royce to see that one coming.
> 
> it was a good card though. sakara i also expected to do better. i mean, he's been training with the nog brothers so i thought his jiujitsu would be better. didn't really think he'd get caught in a triangle without fighting it. seemed like it was slapped on so fast that he didn't have time to react.
> 
> i missed the horn/sonnen and riggs/swick bouts (i had a feeling swick would take it, riggs isn't on swick's boxing level).. the lightweights put on a good show though.


Who called it?


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

hyphen said:


> *holy sh*t, what an upset.* i really expected royce to do better than that, but after matt took side control it was his game.


I don't see it as an upset? Gracie is much older now, and most predicted Hughes to win. Ever since the Gracies dominated in the 90s the trend has been toward more complete fighters.


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## Devon Amazon (Apr 3, 2005)

Fargo said:


> *holy sh*t, what an upset.* i really expected royce to do better than that, but after matt took side control it was his game.


I don't see it as an upset? Gracie is much older now, and most predicted Hughes to win. Ever since the Gracies dominated in the 90s the trend has been toward more complete fighters.
[/quote]
i agree, it was only ever going to be royce getting smashed or spending the entire fight in damage limitation mode.

I thought matt would find it harder than he did but props to the guy...hes a monster


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight







Next one better be diferent


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

AKSkirmish said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


People need to boycott pay-per-view in order to end this 40dollar madness. Oh, and a national week long boycott of work to bring gas prices down as well.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

DOMINATING FIGHT by matt hughes..brought a whole new term to ground and pound...but all that i was at amaze at helio gracie..my god that man is amazing...here is photo while at ringside..


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## Guru (Apr 20, 2004)

Natt King Shoal said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.


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## rosal548 (Nov 1, 2003)

does anyone know where i can download this video ?


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Nuggs said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.
[/quote]

I agree. I thought it was a very good card. The only downside is the fights were very short. Just thinking back real quick there were I think 4 fights that ended in the first round, including 4 of the main card fights. Made for a pretty dominating evening but they were good fights. Vera put on a good show and I enjoyed the Swich Riggs fight just because they had a very interesting feeling out process to watch. Dean Lister is always fun to watch work on the ground, and wtaching him go from the omoplata to triangle wasnt quite the conventional method of doing so, and made it very cool to see. Hughes vs Gracie was good just because it was Hughes vs Gracie. It was very dominating though and made it a bit of a boring fight. GSP Hughes in a few months should be better.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Nuggs said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.
[/quote]

Yeah your right,I got nothing better to do than "act like I watched it"







Yeah a waste of money still.It's my opinion deal with it


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## Guru (Apr 20, 2004)

AKSkirmish said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.
[/quote]

I agree. I thought it was a very good card. The only downside is the fights were very short. Just thinking back real quick there were I think 4 fights that ended in the first round, including 4 of the main card fights. Made for a pretty dominating evening but they were good fights. Vera put on a good show and I enjoyed the Swich Riggs fight just because they had a very interesting feeling out process to watch. Dean Lister is always fun to watch work on the ground, and wtaching him go from the omoplata to triangle wasnt quite the conventional method of doing so, and made it very cool to see. Hughes vs Gracie was good just because it was Hughes vs Gracie. It was very dominating though and made it a bit of a boring fight. GSP Hughes in a few months should be better.
[/quote]
Yea Georgre St.Pierre is going to be a real good fight. You gota love da french Canadian accent reminds me of like Vandamn from Blood Sport :laugh: Yea but I would rather have short fights compared to watching grappling for 3 full rounds and letting the judges decide.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Nuggs said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.
[/quote]

I agree. I thought it was a very good card. The only downside is the fights were very short. Just thinking back real quick there were I think 4 fights that ended in the first round, including 4 of the main card fights. Made for a pretty dominating evening but they were good fights. Vera put on a good show and I enjoyed the Swich Riggs fight just because they had a very interesting feeling out process to watch. Dean Lister is always fun to watch work on the ground, and wtaching him go from the omoplata to triangle wasnt quite the conventional method of doing so, and made it very cool to see. Hughes vs Gracie was good just because it was Hughes vs Gracie. It was very dominating though and made it a bit of a boring fight. GSP Hughes in a few months should be better.
[/quote]
Yea Georgre St.Pierre is going to be a real good fight. You gota love da french Canadian accent reminds me of like Vandamn from Blood Sport :laugh: Yea but I would rather have short fights compared to watching grappling for 3 full rounds and letting the judges decide.
[/quote]

Na,I watched the whole thing.It was still a joke.Good submissions and everything,but come one I want to see more to than just that.That sh*t was for a highlight reel or something along them lines.Deffenitly not pay-per view


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## Guru (Apr 20, 2004)

AKSkirmish said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.
[/quote]

I agree. I thought it was a very good card. The only downside is the fights were very short. Just thinking back real quick there were I think 4 fights that ended in the first round, including 4 of the main card fights. Made for a pretty dominating evening but they were good fights. Vera put on a good show and I enjoyed the Swich Riggs fight just because they had a very interesting feeling out process to watch. Dean Lister is always fun to watch work on the ground, and wtaching him go from the omoplata to triangle wasnt quite the conventional method of doing so, and made it very cool to see. Hughes vs Gracie was good just because it was Hughes vs Gracie. It was very dominating though and made it a bit of a boring fight. GSP Hughes in a few months should be better.
[/quote]
Yea Georgre St.Pierre is going to be a real good fight. You gota love da french Canadian accent reminds me of like Vandamn from Blood Sport :laugh: Yea but I would rather have short fights compared to watching grappling for 3 full rounds and letting the judges decide.
[/quote]

Na,I watched the whole thing.It was still a joke.Good submissions and everything,but come one I want to see more to than just that.That sh*t was for a highlight reel or something along them lines.Deffenitly not pay-per view








[/quote]
Hey its better then back in the day when you would pay like $70 for boxing on payperview.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Nuggs said:


> Once again another wasted $40 on a crap line-up :rasp: Not much action throught each fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about because you obviuosly didn't watch the card then. There were lots of knockouts and tapouts. It was condidered pretty good since not many matches were left to the judges.
[/quote]

I agree. I thought it was a very good card. The only downside is the fights were very short. Just thinking back real quick there were I think 4 fights that ended in the first round, including 4 of the main card fights. Made for a pretty dominating evening but they were good fights. Vera put on a good show and I enjoyed the Swich Riggs fight just because they had a very interesting feeling out process to watch. Dean Lister is always fun to watch work on the ground, and wtaching him go from the omoplata to triangle wasnt quite the conventional method of doing so, and made it very cool to see. Hughes vs Gracie was good just because it was Hughes vs Gracie. It was very dominating though and made it a bit of a boring fight. GSP Hughes in a few months should be better.
[/quote]
Yea Georgre St.Pierre is going to be a real good fight. You gota love da french Canadian accent reminds me of like Vandamn from Blood Sport :laugh: Yea but I would rather have short fights compared to watching grappling for 3 full rounds and letting the judges decide.
[/quote]

Na,I watched the whole thing.It was still a joke.Good submissions and everything,but come one I want to see more to than just that.That sh*t was for a highlight reel or something along them lines.Deffenitly not pay-per view








[/quote]
Hey its better then back in the day when you would pay like $70 for boxing on payperview.
[/quote]


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

hughes definately dominated...i couldnt believe gracie didnt tap out of that arm bar though, holy sh*t!!! i forget who it was, but how about that dude on that guys back for half a round, that was MMA at its very best!!!


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

man i wish royce won!!!!!!!


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

AKSkirmish said:


> hughes definately dominated...i couldnt believe gracie didnt tap out of that arm bar though, holy sh*t!!! i forget who it was, but how about that dude on that guys back for half a round, that was MMA at its very best!!!


diego sanchez. not what i would call mma at its very best at all. he was just trying to work the choke while staying on his back. funny to see though, i'll give it that. what made it funny was that alessio was talking to his corner the entire time.


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

hyphen said:


> hughes definately dominated...i couldnt believe gracie didnt tap out of that arm bar though, holy sh*t!!! i forget who it was, but how about that dude on that guys back for half a round, that was MMA at its very best!!!


diego sanchez. not what i would call mma at its very best at all. he was just trying to work the choke while staying on his back. funny to see though, i'll give it that. what made it funny was that alessio was talking to his corner the entire time.
[/quote]

I think its fair to say that if you didnt enjoy this card then you just will never really like/understand MMA. Its not bowing and its not a bloodbath. Its a very calculated sport with alot of planning and technique going into each movement by the fighters...not just punching as hard as possible all the time. What I did like about this card is that every fight showed these features. We got to see some good submission technique by someone working against a great striker, a smaller guy trying to get inside to strike, alot of careful working of individuals gameplans, and alot of good well rounded fighters (like Brandon Vera going from a good striking display to a choke off the takedown attempt, and the same for Swick). I dont know if Id call the Sanchez fight MMA at its best, but you could say that about this card as a whole. I was very pleased, definately worth the $40.


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## Guru (Apr 20, 2004)

ESPMike said:


> hughes definately dominated...i couldnt believe gracie didnt tap out of that arm bar though, holy sh*t!!! i forget who it was, but how about that dude on that guys back for half a round, that was MMA at its very best!!!


diego sanchez. not what i would call mma at its very best at all. he was just trying to work the choke while staying on his back. funny to see though, i'll give it that. what made it funny was that alessio was talking to his corner the entire time.
[/quote]

I think its fair to say that if you didnt enjoy this card then you just will never really like/understand MMA. Its not bowing and its not a bloodbath. Its a very calculated sport with alot of planning and technique going into each movement by the fighters...not just punching as hard as possible all the time. What I did like about this card is that every fight showed these features. We got to see some good submission technique by someone working against a great striker, a smaller guy trying to get inside to strike, alot of careful working of individuals gameplans, and alot of good well rounded fighters (like Brandon Vera going from a good striking display to a choke off the takedown attempt, and the same for Swick). I dont know if Id call the Sanchez fight MMA at its best, but you could say that about this card as a whole. I was very pleased, definately worth the $40.
[/quote]
The Lister fight was pretty good too, it was like a text book display of how to apply the triangle on someone while in your guard. In my opinion this card was very well rounded and should of at least entertained most fans that dont know much about MMA.


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Nuggs said:


> The Lister fight was pretty good too, it was like a text book display of how to apply the triangle on someone while in your guard. In my opinion this card was very well rounded and should of at least entertained most fans that dont know much about MMA.


I wouldnt call it textbook. Lister was actually using something called New-School Guard. Its very similar to Eddie Bravo's rubber guard in that it brings the legs very high on the persons back and it is meant to keep their posture down. Its great for MMA for that reason, that it keeps the persons posture down and keeps them from getting power on punches, and actually disables the ability to punch.

This kind of guard is when you get an overhook on one side, and place your hand underneath your own leg on the same side while bringing your legs high on the persons back and locking your feet. Its a very tight position to hold and is a great set up to an omoplata or a triangle (both things Lister went for). The beautiful part of the triangle is that it pushes the shoulder into the persons neck, and makes their shoulder function like their arm would, meaning it isnt neccessary to push the persons arm accross their face to finish the choke. While the setup isnt entirely different from a traditional "textbook" triangle from guard, it definately isnt the same.


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## EvilRaven1031 (Oct 22, 2005)

heres a question for all of you *cough-jiggy-cough*... why would royce give up his back so easily. the first time i saw him attempt a roll to mount, but it ended up being a roll to guard. later in the fight though he tried it again, this time with a worse result. i just want to know what he might have been trying to do. im not trying to say im an expert or even that i train MMA cause im not and i dont. i just like to watch a real combat sport and im trying to understand more about the subtle nuances. can anyone shed some light on this?


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

If i remember correctly, Royce has in a pretty bad way at that point. He had been stuck in a combination of sidemount and knee on belly for the duration of the ground exchange. Royce tried once to roll in an effort to establish guard. Hughes did a good job recovering from it, and again if memory serves me right Royce only got half guard, which Hughes later passed. Royce tried this same desperation escape technique again, but this time with worse results. Hughes was ready and rather then letting Royce roll completely to guard he was able to keep Royce face down and take his back.

This might not be 100% accurate as Im going from memory, I havent seen the fight since that night. But that is the jist of what was happening. I also applaud you for trying to understand the ground game and not just booing it like most ignorant MMA fans do. Props to you.


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## EvilRaven1031 (Oct 22, 2005)

esp, a knockout is cool...but any fool can throw a lucky punch. it takes someone that practices and hones their craft to put you on your back and make you not want to fight anymore


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Draven said:


> esp, a knockout is cool...but any fool can throw a lucky punch. it takes someone that practices and hones their craft to put you on your back and make you not want to fight anymore


I agree. But lets not discredit the work and skill that goes into GOOD striking. It takes alot of work in itself. But making someone actually say, "I give up." In my book that beats a KO any day. I always want a submission.


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## EvilRaven1031 (Oct 22, 2005)

i agree 100%! i love to watch a GOOD striker throw...but bring on the tapouts


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

wasn't surprised at all, gracies like what close to 50?







on that note you might as well put john ruiz in the ring with mahamed ali and once ruiz is done "literally" molesting ali's corpse, we can call ruiz a great fighter..but no place better for a fight like this then the wwe :cough: I mean ufc, gracie in his prime would have tied hughes into a knot and left him there...

despite the penn/pierre fix, you wont be seeing hughs fight penn because penn would beat him into submission once again.. but i will agree this is penns fault for letting it go to the judge's... nothing taken away from st pierre hes got some talent and I do see pierre beating hughes, i dont like hughes i dont know why, maybe its the gay smirk he carries around with him but i will give credit to him for taking that shot to the nuts to come back and put trig out of his misery..

on anouther note i f*cking cannot stand ortiz but can not wait for ortiz/shamrock 2 because i cant stand shamrock either, so it will be nice to watch them both beat the sh*t out of each other...







for free cause i wouldnt pay a nickle for this crap..


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## ESPMike (Mar 23, 2005)

Liquid said:


> *wasn't surprised at all, gracies like what close to 50?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all, Royce is 39. Older, yeah, but not any ridiculous age. Couture was older then that when he won the LHW title, and Shamrock is still competing (although not very effectively) at over 40. Check Liddell is the current LHW Champ and hes 37. I just checked those dates on the net, theyre actually only 2 years and a few days difference in age. So saying Royce's age is a factor is ridiculous.

You dont have a clue if you think Royce of 1993 would beat Hughes of now. That fight would have been even shorter. Royce wasnt nearly as good of a fighter in 1993 as he is now. Consider he has 13 more years of BJJ experience to his name, and 13 years of MMA experience including all the UFC tournaments, and several Pride and K1 events. In those past 13 years he also has trained in Muay Thai to establish some striking skill. Royce is a MUCH better fighter now then he was then. Problem is Hughes is a different breed then Royce. Hughes has superb wrestling, excellent submissions, above average striking and a TON of experience. Royce even today has excellent BJJ and alot of experience, but sub-par striking and wrestling. He is a legend and an innovator, but he's not a well rounded fighter and he cant compete with the top fighters of today. He's still in the Gracie mindset that all you need is Gracie Jiu Jitsu, when thats just not true anymore. I think even they are starting to realize that now.

Hughes represents the very best of the new generation of MMA fighters. That new generation can strike and grapple equally as well. The days of being one dimensional and making it work are long over, and this fight really passed the torch to the new generation IMO.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

another thing that makes hughes good is his ability to cut so much damn weight.. he cuts to 170, but at fight night hes back up to 195lbs.. hughes would get RAPED at 185..


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

ESPMike said:


> *wasn't surprised at all, gracies like what close to 50?*:laugh: on that note you might as well put john ruiz in the ring with mahamed ali and once ruiz is done "literally" molesting ali's corpse, we can call ruiz a great fighter..but no place better for a fight like this then the wwe :cough: I mean ufc, *gracie in his prime would have tied hughes into a knot and left him there...*


First of all, Royce is 39. Older, yeah, but not any ridiculous age. Couture was older then that when he won the LHW title, and Shamrock is still competing (although not very effectively) at over 40. Check Liddell is the current LHW Champ and hes 37. I just checked those dates on the net, theyre actually only 2 years and a few days difference in age. So saying Royce's age is a factor is ridiculous.

You dont have a clue if you think Royce of 1993 would beat Hughes of now. That fight would have been even shorter. Royce wasnt nearly as good of a fighter in 1993 as he is now. Consider he has 13 more years of BJJ experience to his name, and 13 years of MMA experience including all the UFC tournaments, and several Pride and K1 events. In those past 13 years he also has trained in Muay Thai to establish some striking skill. Royce is a MUCH better fighter now then he was then. Problem is Hughes is a different breed then Royce. Hughes has superb wrestling, excellent submissions, above average striking and a TON of experience. Royce even today has excellent BJJ and alot of experience, but sub-par striking and wrestling. He is a legend and an innovator, but he's not a well rounded fighter and he cant compete with the top fighters of today. He's still in the Gracie mindset that all you need is Gracie Jiu Jitsu, when thats just not true anymore. I think even they are starting to realize that now.

Hughes represents the very best of the new generation of MMA fighters. That new generation can strike and grapple equally as well. The days of being one dimensional and making it work are long over, and this fight really passed the torch to the new generation IMO.
[/quote]

sorry i didnt have my stat book on me when posting







yeah all that sounds peachy whatever, me not having clue??, now i wouldnt go that far ive been in plenty of pit fights and im not gonna get into all that, personally imo you "new breed" are spoiled im more in tune with the old school rules with no rules no holds bar, but niether matters here or there, hughes did his thing, Gracies not at his best nor in his prime ..hes old and shits taken a toll, in his prime he would have tied hughes up and left him there.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

jiggy said:


> another thing that makes hughes good is his ability to cut so much damn weight.. he cuts to 170, but at fight night hes back up to 195lbs.. hughes would get RAPED at 185..


and who would do the "raping" ?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Fido said:


> another thing that makes hughes good is his ability to cut so much damn weight.. he cuts to 170, but at fight night hes back up to 195lbs.. hughes would get RAPED at 185..


and who would do the "raping" ?








[/quote]

hendo, bustamante, franklin, ninja, minotoro, and i'm guessing loisseau would cut him up pretty nice.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

the not so outstanding guys would rape him too.. leben, cote, riggs at 185 would kill hughes, tanner..etc.


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## Devon Amazon (Apr 3, 2005)

jiggy said:


> the not so outstanding guys would rape him too.. leben, cote, riggs at 185 would kill hughes, tanner..etc.


Riggs didnt do such a great job of "killing" hughes a few months back


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

yeh at 170.. but even then, riggs didnt train the last 4 weeks before the fight cuz all his trainers/training partners left.. jeremy horn said riggs is better than hughes, and horn trains them both in bjj


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## Uncle Rico (Sep 4, 2005)

jiggy said:


> another thing that makes hughes good is his ability to cut so much damn weight.. he cuts to 170, but at fight night hes back up to 195lbs.. hughes would get RAPED at 185..


Yeah, I don't know why Dana White was saying that Royce would actually outweigh Hughes in this fight (during that half hour thing before the fight Dana was saying this fight would be interesting since Royce is usually the one outweighed). I think Royce only cut 5 pounds (he walks around at 180 I believe).


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