# I keep finding pages on sexing serras



## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Here is a link I found about sexing rhoms based off the anal fin... I have found numerous sites with simular details... Where did they find this, or did one person make it up and they all jump on the band wagon???

Sexed by anal fin???


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## Bigkrup444 (Oct 6, 2003)

I have come agross many sites on P's whos info is totally wrong thats why i started to make my own site to try and get some more correct info out on the net


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

While I appreciate the exchange of information, lets keep the links promoting other web sites to a minimum. This is also the wrong forum to be discussing "sexing" fishes.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Hmmm... I'm just wondering where that idea came about. I also saw something in a book of mine about sexing serras off the shape on the annal fin... I will post author book name and page tonight...

Everyone says they can't be sexed off that. I just want to know how the general idea was formed... I personally do incorporate that concept in my purchase of breeding colonies...

Here is a link where I posted pics of 2 of my breeding fish. I know for a fact one is male and one is female..

My known sexed fish..

Irronically my known breeding pair appear to meet the hook no hook on the anal fin criteria... Funny about the dammage fins.. The fish have been in separate tanks for over 7 months now.. I am in the process of reuninting them this weekend


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 9 2004, 01:25 PM
> Hmmm... I'm just wondering where that idea came about. I also saw something in a book of mine about sexing serras off the shape on the annal fin... I will post author book name and page tonight...
> 
> Everyone says they can't be sexed off that. I just want to know how the general idea was formed... I personally do incorporate that concept in my purchase of breeding colonies...
> ...


The "idea" of sexing piranas was formed by direct observations of a male and female breeding and making assumptions of what they saw. There is NO, repeat NO visual differences that can be applied to an entire school of fishes to differenciate the male from the female. Lastly, this is beating a dead horse and I'm surprised your even bringing this dead topic up again, hook or no hook. What you consider "fact" is strictly opinion based on direct observations on a grain of sand when there is a whole beach out there.
You can also find "pages" of information of ternetzi growing over 17 inches, Serrasalmus niger still existing. And even references to Big Foot. Doesn't make it so does it?

BTW, I noticed in your rather large signature block you aim to prove Serrasalmus shoal. You must not be aware that they shoal in the wild. So not much to prove. In your aquario is another matter. They will bit fins even devour each other that's why they are called cannibals. For each success story you peddle, 10's of others have failed. Good luck nonetheless.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Each one of those 10 failures will result in the loss of pets and money to unsuspecting hobbyists.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

OMG&#8230; I am aware that they shoal in nature&#8230; I also understand that they have individual personalities, rebel against captive environments, are territorial, eat fins for a diet, and resort to cannibalism to assure only the strong, and best stock are allowed to reproduce and keep a strong species&#8230;

Personally I am exploring this shoaling of all species I can get my hands on&#8230;Breeding fish put me in good contact with many distributors. Trading 300 babies gets me almost any kind of piranha I want. My personal opinion is once shoaling can be achieved in my home aquarium, captive breeding can be explored. I just got 2 additional red throated SpiloCF. This gives me 4 shoaling in a 75gallon. Perhaps its luck, but I honestly don't lose many fish. A true hobbyist would love to see my home. I got 18 fish tanks set up, and all kinds of mixed serrasalmus shoals in relatively small tanks&#8230;Some are new projects, that's why no pics. Once I have reached a 6 month mark of keeping the fish together pics will be posted&#8230;

Honestly for violence!!! When my ternetzi's laid infertile eggs, was the most aggression in any of my tanks&#8230;.There breeding ritual was far more aggressive, than any game of chase and take a piece of tail&#8230;

But as a hobbyist. That is what keeps me in the hobby. I have to see just what can be shoaled in the home aquarium, and what can be breed in small aquariums&#8230; Of all my fish, my largest tank is 120 gallon&#8230;. All this talk about having fish in large tanks... I do dis-agree with. This dis agreement is based on personal experience, and not stuff people posted online&#8230; Had my 4 four inch manny's not died of internal parasites; they may still be shoaling in a 29 gallon... There was zero aggression to my manny project&#8230;

This is why I have the footer... I love the challenge of keeping them together. The longer they survive the more excited I get...

Soon you will see some more of my breeding success... There is still a secret project I have had minor success with...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Then my professional suggestion is; don't confuse your experiments as fact on what a fish will or won't do 100% of the time. By making it appear that your smattering of success is a bonafide conclusion of success for other hobbyists creates a bad precedent. In otherwords as Xenon stated:


> Xenon Posted on Feb 9 2004, 07:54 PM
> 
> *Each one of those 10 failures will result in the loss of pets and money to unsuspecting hobbyists *


Not everyone can afford to buy expensive fish on a preamble on the "might be" successful. In reading over your remarks it becomes evident you have had failures. And that my friend is what others reading this should read between the lines highlited for everyone's review:



> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 9 2004, 08:35 PM
> OMG&#8230; I am aware that they shoal in nature&#8230;* I also understand that they have individual personalities, rebel against captive environments, are territorial, eat fins for a diet, and resort to cannibalism to assure only the strong, and best stock are allowed to reproduce and keep a strong species&#8230;*
> 
> Personally I am exploring this shoaling of all species I can get my hands on&#8230;Breeding fish put me in good contact with many distributors. Trading 300 babies gets me almost any kind of piranha I want. My personal opinion is once shoaling can be achieved in my home aquarium, captive breeding can be explored. I just got 2 additional red throated SpiloCF. This gives me 4 shoaling in a 75gallon. Perhaps its luck, *but I honestly don't lose many fish.* A true hobbyist would love to see my home. I got 18 fish tanks set up, and all kinds of mixed serrasalmus shoals in relatively small tanks&#8230;Some are new projects, that's why no pics. Once I have reached a 6 month mark of keeping the fish together pics will be posted&#8230;
> ...


So by all means enjoy writing about your exploits but don't create a false impression of -0- mortalities or finnage removal. That is a disservice to hobbyists and is more likely to give people a negative view of your suspect achievements.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Failures??? I have posted all... Last year I lost 3 fish. 1 Rhom, 1 Maculatus, and 1 strawberry Banana &#8230; And 4 Manny's to internal parasites. If my math is correct, that is 17% of the 18 colonies have lost a fish. All cannibalism was in the S. Maculatus shoal&#8230; Other than parasites all fish have been lost as a result of missing feeding, or heightened aggression during breeding&#8230;

I am 100% sure every death of my fish was posted on your forum&#8230; Even the Piraya that were poisoned. Just figured I should inform you that I don't tell people I never lost a fish. With having a total of over 50 adult piranhas losing 3 to cannibalism isn't a bad average. Once again this average is just an opinion of mine... Taking in account bare minimum of total adult fish my loss is less than 6%....

3 of my Geryi were apparently not shoalable and kept in 10 gallon tanks&#8230; Now they are with 4 of mine in a 100 gallon tank&#8230; Many have seen, and there are no fin nips&#8230; The person I got them from even commented on the show quality of each S.Geryi. When people posted SB_spilos couldn't be shoaled, I put 2 in with my S.Maculatus. 3monsths later there was 1 loss; the other is still there&#8230;I choose to view my fish as they are in the wild&#8230; Swimming with other piranhas&#8230; Personally I don't like just one fish in a tank.. The feeding frenzy, and games of chase are some of the things I enjoy the most..

When B.Scott posted pics of Cariba with Geryi it was a wonderful thing.. No one questioned him over losses and fin nips... But once again, I have declared all my losses for the year of 2003....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Feb 9 2004, 10:24 PM
> Failures??? I have posted all... Last year I lost 3 fish. 1 Rhom, 1 Maculatus, and 1 strawberry Banana &#8230; And 4 Manny's to internal parasites. If my math is correct, that is 17% of the 18 colonies have lost a fish. All cannibalism was in the S. Maculatus shoal&#8230; Other than parasites all fish have been lost as a result of missing feeding, or heightened aggression during breeding&#8230;
> 
> I am 100% sure every death of my fish was posted on your forum&#8230; Even the Piraya that were poisoned. Just figured I should inform you that I don't tell people I never lost a fish. With having a total of over 50 adult piranhas losing 3 to cannibalism isn't a bad average. Once again this average is just an opinion of mine... Taking in account bare minimum of total adult fish my loss is less than 6%....
> ...





> *When B.Scott posted pics of Cariba with Geryi it was a wonderful thing.. No one questioned him over losses and fin nips... *But once again, I have declared all my losses for the year of 2003....


_Perhaps it was due to how Brian presented his "experiment". I haven't heard any further from Brian on this. Perhaps he will find time to devote to letting us know whether or not it remains successful.

Actually, you are reading to much into what I've written. Please re-read and see what I'm observing from your remarks. I'm just asking you tone down your idea of a success rate when you have noted your fish do suffer mortalities on such experiments._

I think both our points have been made.


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