# Mo' hammed, Mo' problems.



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Does anyone have any links to the cartoons that the world seems to be rioting about? You know - the ones that were published in the Danish newspapers. Not just the bomb one - but the collection of 12 or so.

I saw a link before on the forum but can't find it now.

Thanks.


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## wasabi-glow (Jun 30, 2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_cartoons


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

i still dont get why the muslims get so offended. ppl make fun of christ and god and we dont riot. then some Dane draws a little cartoon and they do a worldwide riot. im sorry, but that just proves a lot of ppl's points about how some of them work.

i cant believe a cartoon like that has led to ppl's deaths and sh*t. what a joke.

i think its time for Puff to start drawing religious cartoons and posting them on the Al Jazeera website. i was thinking about starting off with Big Daddy Moh getting mounted by a camel.

(im jk obviously..altho i AM that much of an ass)


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Puff said:


> i still dont get why the muslims get so offended. ppl make fun of christ and god and we dont riot. then some Dane draws a little cartoon and they do a worldwide riot. im sorry, but that just proves a lot of ppl's points about how some of them work.
> 
> i cant believe a cartoon like that has led to ppl's deaths and sh*t. what a joke.
> 
> ...












What I find even funnier about this whole situation is the LA/NY Times along with several other papers refuse to print this cartoon because they said it is disrespectful YET they ran the cartoon of the soldier missing his limbs. Which imo was completly tasteless and disrespectful.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

gentlemen we are surrounded by hypocricy..

our govt is not making us safer by using the excues of teh war on terror for iraq.. look at thesitutaion from the other perspective.. lets say that if unibomber organized a few peopel and attacked a counrty inthe mid east like iran for example and teh iranians said f*ck that were are getting rid of america because they harbored terrorist dont you think everyone of us would be more then alittle pissed off about pretty much anythign and everything????

i not justifing what binladen did but im say that instead of being arrogant obnoxous americans which is pretty much what got us here int eh first place maybe more people need to consider teh whole situation from all angles???

and wtf are you laughing about exodus you have the worlds biggest asshole as you avatar.. hes the biggest hypocit of them all, he claims WMD and alquiada ties to support the war then changes his story for a few months simply to sadam was a bad guy and nned to be removed tehn goes back to teh WMD arguement mean while most of the senior leaders of the administration have either steped down or tried to get off of bushs sinking ship of lies tehn a few months later come out tell everyone how messed up the situations with the current administration are..

you have teh ex cis leader claimingthe administrations office disreagarded all advice fromt eh intellegence community..

libby says his superiors told him to leak the info..

colin powel is pissed he was told to mis represent teh evidence against iraq..

before the invasion of iraq the general of the army was pushed out because he knew going to irawq qas a bad idea..

ect. ect.. ect..


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

And they claim that the Muslim religion is a non violent religion. Right!


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## StuartDanger (Aug 7, 2003)

> And they claim that the Muslim religion is a non violent religion. Right!


it isnt a violent religion, it is just when extremists take it too far, but also the muslim people have been persecuted for years, many of the muslim countires are at war and im sure if we (western countries) were at war we would have the same reactions that the muslims have
'i'd rather be a martyr than a soldier at war'


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2006)

You guys should watch out..I hear the Canadian extremists are not happy about Bert goin to the olympics...we are going to burn down your ice hockey rinks!!!

SAKIC POUR L'OR MON AMI!


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> gentlemen we are surrounded by hypocricy..
> 
> our govt is not making us safer by using the excues of teh war on terror for iraq.. look at thesitutaion from the other perspective.. lets say that if unibomber organized a few peopel and attacked a counrty inthe mid east like iran for example and teh iranians said f*ck that were are getting rid of america because they harbored terrorist dont you think everyone of us would be more then alittle pissed off about pretty much anythign and everything????
> 
> ...


Im laughing about Puffs comments. I KNEW some flaming leftist couldnt talk about this matter w/o bringing up politics. Thanks for proving my point


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> gentlemen we are surrounded by hypocricy..
> 
> our govt is not making us safer by using the excues of teh war on terror for iraq.. look at thesitutaion from the other perspective.. lets say that if unibomber organized a few peopel and attacked a counrty inthe mid east like iran for example and teh iranians said f*ck that were are getting rid of america because they harbored terrorist dont you think everyone of us would be more then alittle pissed off about pretty much anythign and everything????
> 
> ...


Im laughing about Puffs comments. I KNEW some flaming leftist couldnt talk about this matter w/o bringing up politics. Thanks for proving my point








[/quote]

yes because its aggravating when someone is arrogantly and blantly shitting on the american public just like when the entire republican population was screaming for impeachemtn for clintons bj's and that didnt result in thousands of dead soldiers and turmiol in iraq..


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> gentlemen we are surrounded by hypocricy..
> 
> our govt is not making us safer by using the excues of teh war on terror for iraq.. look at thesitutaion from the other perspective.. lets say that if unibomber organized a few peopel and attacked a counrty inthe mid east like iran for example and teh iranians said f*ck that were are getting rid of america because they harbored terrorist dont you think everyone of us would be more then alittle pissed off about pretty much anythign and everything????
> 
> ...


Im laughing about Puffs comments. I KNEW some flaming leftist couldnt talk about this matter w/o bringing up politics. Thanks for proving my point








[/quote]

yes because its aggravating when someone is arrogantly and blantly shitting on the american public just like when the entire republican population was screaming for impeachemtn for clintons bj's and that didnt result in thousands of dead soldiers and turmiol in iraq..
[/quote]

Whats aggravating is when some tree hugging hippies whine non stop about "noone died when clinton lied". Come on... Say it Nismo... BJ? It wasnt about him getting sucked off in the oval office. HE LIED UNDER OATH!


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> Whats aggravating is when some tree hugging hippies whine non stop about "noone died when clinton lied". Come on... Say it Nismo... BJ? It wasnt about him getting sucked off in the oval office. HE LIED UNDER OATH!


and the only differnece is bush wont go under oath and claim he did not use false intelligence to argue the invasion of iraq..

im far from being a hippie


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> gentlemen we are surrounded by hypocricy..
> 
> our govt is not making us safer by using the excues of teh war on terror for iraq.. look at thesitutaion from the other perspective.. lets say that if unibomber organized a few peopel and attacked a counrty inthe mid east like iran for example and teh iranians said f*ck that were are getting rid of america because they harbored terrorist dont you think everyone of us would be more then alittle pissed off about pretty much anythign and everything????
> 
> ...


Im laughing about Puffs comments. I KNEW some flaming leftist couldnt talk about this matter w/o bringing up politics. Thanks for proving my point








[/quote]

yes because its aggravating when someone is arrogantly and blantly shitting on the american public just like when the entire republican population was screaming for impeachemtn for clintons bj's and that didnt result in thousands of dead soldiers and turmiol in iraq..
[/quote]

Whats aggravating is when some tree hugging hippies whine non stop about "noone died when clinton lied". Come on... Say it Nismo... BJ? It wasnt about him getting sucked off in the oval office. HE LIED UNDER OATH!
[/quote]

and the only differnece is bush wont go under oath and claim he did not use false intelligence to argue the invasion of iraq..
[/quote]

BECAUSE HE HASNT BEEN IMPEACHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROFL! You think clinton willingly spoke under oath??


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> BECAUSE HE HASNT BEEN IMPEACHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ROFL! You think clinton willingly spoke under oath??


and its a god damn shame the democrats dont have the balls to try to impeach him... its pretty clear he has done far more shady things and lied then clintons bj..

cinsidering this thread isnt MO bush mo problems, i will just agree to disagree and stop derailing..


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

mo hammed mo problems? sum1 watches daily show


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2006)

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Imagine there's no heaven,
> It's easy if you try,
> No hell below us,
> Above us only sky,
> ...


^^was killed by the cia because he was a red.

And Nismo... They have balls. Dont kid yourself. Anyone who can turn a funeral into a base for political bullshit has balls.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> And Nismo... They have balls. Dont kid yourself. Anyone who can turn a funeral into a base for political bullshit has balls.


and bush wasnt using it as a political tool either? there wasnt really any reason for him to be there.. they are both jut as guilty on that one..


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> And Nismo... They have balls. Dont kid yourself. Anyone who can turn a funeral into a base for political bullshit has balls.


Yes, indeed, it's not like Republicans would ever use a funeral of 3000 US citizens to promote their political agenda or anything









And nismo - yes, lying under oath is an impeachable offense - as far as I know Bush never has or if he has, it will be a challenge to prove.

And I actually think that Clinton's scandal did help cause the Iraq war


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> Imagine there's no heaven,
> It's easy if you try,
> No hell below us,
> Above us only sky,
> ...


^^was killed by the cia because he was a red.

[/quote]

Yup, now I'm convinced that you are retarded.

(not that blindly following GW isn't evidence enough







)


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Puff said:


> i still dont get why the muslims get so offended. *ppl make fun of christ and god and we dont riot*. then some Dane draws a little cartoon and they do a worldwide riot. im sorry, but that just proves a lot of ppl's points about how some of them work.
> 
> i cant believe a cartoon like that has led to ppl's deaths and sh*t. what a joke.


the quick version.. lol
Christianity is widely mis-understood. The vast! majority of Christians haven't even accepted Christ. (which is who the general public mostly sees) When you whole-heartedly accept Jesus Christ as a sinner who needs forgiveness for peace with God, you are promised the Holy Spirit.

This Holy Spirit reveals that Christ is Lord in your heart, and leads and guides you thereafter. You recieve the peace and joy of God that is completely unexplainable, to say the least about it.

This unexplainable peace and joy is the power of God, which enables the believer to live for Christ. 'Nothing' should offend a true Christian to the point of retaliation. Not to mention violence. There is a raging battle that goes on in our hearts, our flesh wants to carry out evil for evil, but the Holy Spirit warns us to be obedient to Christ and back off humbly.. In obediance to the Lord Jesus Christ.
If we do the right thing, the peace and joy grows. The wrong thing, and we grieve the Spirit of God.

*Christians do not riot because the joy, and peace of God is too precious a thing to waste*. We love all people, but we are pained that so many people are lost and do not know the Prince of Peace. 
_If their faith *preaches peace*, and the people of that faith rise up in riots, are they being disobedient to their faith, or is that what the faith teaches??_

After knowing this, should they then repent, and stop being violent, or should they continue rioting? The question then comes to _--what does the actual faith teach???_

If a Muslim could explain this to me, I would greatly appreciate that. -I honestly do not know that answer..

But I did read, and hear a Muslim say that in the Quran, it teaches that one day Allah will open the doors for the whole natural (fleshly) earth to be ruled by Muslims by force.. Someone who KNOWS, please clarify, as I do not wish to misunderstand the faith at all. 
(Christs teaching is that we are to suffer in this life for the Gospel truth, to not take up arms, and obey the authority that rules over us)

I heard other things (the 72 virgins) but I won't quote those things, because I do not understand. But if that story is correct, why would a holy God have His people commit fornications in the perfectly holy afterlife?
Christ says that no one will be given in marriage in the afterlife.

But I will say, however, that *Christ has said that He is an everlasting King not of this world, but of the world to come. * 
That being said... we all die. This life is but a match that burns bright, but then reaches it's end and fizzles out. 
The next world is to be eternal, we read in the scriptures.. So then.. I put my faith in the eternal afterlife ruled by Jesus Christ, not this world, which is here today, and gone tomorrow.

Peace to this thread!


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

33truballa33 said:


> mo hammed mo problems? sum1 watches daily show


Word.

That show is amazing.

Jon Stewart's wit and intellect give me mental hard-ons.

(But it was only _alright_ last night since Jon wasn't on and they had that fill-in.)


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> And they claim that the Muslim religion is a non violent religion. Right!


Isn't that type of response just fabulous? I'm sure the government in Iran who are intentionally fanning the fires with the protests to anger the Muslims even more as the pretext for an envisioned war between Islam and the West would be glad as hell to see Americans responding this way.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Ron Mexico said:


> And Nismo... They have balls. Dont kid yourself. Anyone who can turn a funeral into a base for political bullshit has balls.


Yes, indeed, it's not like Republicans would ever use a funeral of 3000 US citizens to promote their political agenda or anything









And nismo - yes, lying under oath is an impeachable offense - as far as I know Bush never has or if he has, it will be a challenge to prove.

And I actually think that Clinton's scandal did help cause the Iraq war
[/quote]

Jewlez,









Both parties politizied 9/11 which is true. I am talking about Kings recent funeral. My remarks were more along the lines that funerals arnt the place to sling sh*t for political gains.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> And Nismo... They have balls. Dont kid yourself. Anyone who can turn a funeral into a base for political bullshit has balls.


Yes, indeed, it's not like Republicans would ever use a funeral of 3000 US citizens to promote their political agenda or anything









And nismo - yes, lying under oath is an impeachable offense - as far as I know Bush never has or if he has, it will be a challenge to prove.

And I actually think that Clinton's scandal did help cause the Iraq war
[/quote]

Jewlez,









Both parties politizied 9/11 which is true. I am talking about Kings recent funeral. My remarks were more along the lines that funerals arnt the place to sling sh*t for political gains.
[/quote]

MLK's widow's funeral ? What was the story there ?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Yes. Basically Carter was taking jabs at Bush and the whole Iraq thing when he got up to speak. As well as Lowery ( a long time kinf friend and major player in the whole civil rights movement).

read about here on drudge 
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htm


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

how classy those dems. Can't even keep their mouth close in a funeral. I dont understand why they always need to rhyme and talk like johnny cochran "For war, billions more, but no more for the poor!". Man, give it a rest. We already got jesse jacskon and we dont need another one.

BTW, those wants in on these?! (sites gettin slammed) see mohammad shirts

http://www.shopmetrospy.com


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## Steve-Fox (Nov 28, 2005)

Alright now how about we not talk about this topic im a muslim amd get slightly offended when peolpe post this up can we have peace muslim hav gone through a lot of s**T during the tears


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## SeeingRedAgain (Sep 14, 2005)

Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

well, thats exactly what the issue is. This may be offensive, but nobody is forcing you to enter this topic or read it. Freedom of speech. Nothing posted is pornographic or against forum rules. Seeingredagain, nice post. yes, a president should be impeached for choking on a pretzel , saything dumb things, and making america hated(which it already was as whoever is #1 in the world always is in politics, sports, school). You are a breath of fresh air. Lets elect you for your eloquent statements.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> Yes. Basically Carter was taking jabs at Bush and the whole Iraq thing when he got up to speak. As well as Lowery ( a long time kinf friend and major player in the whole civil rights movement).
> 
> read about here on drudge
> http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htm


I see

A funeral hardly seems to be an appropriate place for these types of remarks


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

SeeingRedAgain said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.
[/quote]

And I thought Repubs were a reason fat man Moore was making millions


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Ron Mexico said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.
[/quote]

And I thought Repubs were a reason fat man Moore was making millions








[/quote]

yeah because know how full of hard hitting factual evidence Moore's films are.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Boobah said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.
[/quote]

And I thought Repubs were a reason fat man Moore was making millions








[/quote]

yeah because know how full of hard hitting factual evidence Moore's films are.









[/quote]

What are you even talking about ? Of course, Moore's full of sh*t

But where do you think he gets his inspiration from ? I'd be willing to bet my entire life savings that Fox News is on 24 hours in every room of his house


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Ron Mexico said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.
[/quote]

And I thought Repubs were a reason fat man Moore was making millions








[/quote]

yeah because know how full of hard hitting factual evidence Moore's films are.









[/quote]

What are you even talking about ? Of course, Moore's full of sh*t

But where do you think he gets his inspiration from ? I'd be willing to bet my entire life savings that Fox News is on 24 hours in every room of his house
[/quote]

you're probably right, but if it wasn't for lazy ass people on welfare looking for someone to blame, he'd just be another fat dude with a camera


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Ron Mexico said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.
[/quote]

And I thought Repubs were a reason fat man Moore was making millions








[/quote]

yeah because know how full of hard hitting factual evidence Moore's films are.









[/quote]

What are you even talking about ? Of course, Moore's full of sh*t

But where do you think he gets his inspiration from ? I'd be willing to bet my entire life savings that Fox News is on 24 hours in every room of his house
[/quote]

I'll take that bet! Hope you got a lot of money! I take paypal, money orders but no checks!


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2006)

This thread sucks


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> Bush should be impeached just for his raw stupidity, alone. I can not remember having a president who has managed to choke on a pretzel, say as many moronic statements, have as many word stumbles, and make Americans THIS hated with the rest of the world... Ever. I really wouldn't be surprised if Bush some how manages to accidently trip, fall, and assassinate all of Russia and Irans' leadership, sending us into the end of the world. "Four More Years!" - I hope every mini-van driving, coffee addicted, ignorant jackass who was chanting that in the last election chokes on too much intake of air and falls over while viciously bleeding from the ears.


^^typical angry, hate filled leftie.









YOU are the reason fat man Moore is making millions.
[/quote]

And I thought Repubs were a reason fat man Moore was making millions








[/quote]

yeah because know how full of hard hitting factual evidence Moore's films are.









[/quote]

What are you even talking about ? Of course, Moore's full of sh*t

But where do you think he gets his inspiration from ? I'd be willing to bet my entire life savings that Fox News is on 24 hours in every room of his house
[/quote]

I'll take that bet! Hope you got a lot of money! I take paypal, money orders but no checks!
[/quote]

Well, maybe not 24 hours.. I am sure he takes occasional breaks to switch to the _Food Network_


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Steve-Fox said:


> Alright now how about we not talk about this topic im a muslim amd get slightly offended when peolpe post this up can we have peace muslim hav gone through a lot of s**T during the tears


I hope people will respect that, but somehow I doubt it.
I understand hat you mean, though: in Europe, the cartoon discussion is slowly moving into that sensible direction, and finally some people start realising that this problem is consisting of more than just the ridiculous and violent response in the Middle East.

And to those that immedeately pull the "freedom of speech"-card (funny, as those are usually the same that start foaming when someone talks critical about the US) - freedom of speech is a freedom to express yourself, not a carte blanche to offend.

As far as Moore's films are concerned: yes, he's a pretentious prick, but his statements are as true or false as the ones made by the Bush administration - both are creative with facts and the thruth, both manipulate and deceive, and both are compulsive lyers. The difference is that the words of only one (have) lead to war, thousands of casualties and truckloads of misery.


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## SeeingRedAgain (Sep 14, 2005)

Time for joke of the day, kids.

Question: How can President Bush be so sure that Iraq has weapons of mass desctruction?
Answer: He has the receipt.










Credit to Chapelle's Show.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

i might as well just attatch my thoughts to Judazz's posts. his posts are always so...level headed









i was pissed off that ppl lost their lives over a cartoon, but at the same time its a religious figure...but at the same time as that, why the hell do they get so amped up over a cartoon? what gives muslims a right to act more violent than any other religion?

*im not saying that trying to start sh*t, i want a response







lol *


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Puff said:


> i might as well just attatch my thoughts to Judazz's posts. his posts are always so...level headed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Care to elaborate what's so levelheaded about my post?
As to answer your post, which, as so often is... ummm... putting words in my mouth: where did I say that those cartoons give Muslims the right to riot, burn flags, torch embassies, threaten Westerners? Or where do I condone that?
All I'm saying is that there's more to the whole issue that just the violent (and clearly orchestrated) response - and that's a fact. That in Europe we seem to have figured that out and people in certain other countries may not is not my problem.
I'm not going to waste any time explaining that, however.

As to why this response to a bunch of cartoons. Why do many Americans react so furiously, as if stung by a killer bee, towards any hint of criticism? Why do people start crying when I say something not so nice about the USA, a fricking post on a fricking internet message board?
Apparantly because something they deeply care about is being criticised, and certain individuals tend to loose their sense of rationale when that happens. For Muslims their Prophet is the single-most sacred of things, so if you mock that, or intentionally connect him and his teachings to terrorism (something which is unjust, as the ones justifying their violence with Mohammed's words are clearly in the dark about the meaning of his messages), it will cause a strong response. Why that violent? I don't know, other than that most of the riots we've seen recently were spindoctored by Muslim leaders in certain countries and of certain movements, and perpetrated by people that had no clue what really was going on, but instead were fed lies to make them do precisely that what those responsible wanted.

To make things clear (which, sadly enough is necessary, as some may want to intentionally misinterpret my words): I do not compare replies to my posts with the response to the cartoons, but there are parallells to be drawn nonetheless.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Alright now how about we not talk about this topic im a muslim amd get slightly offended when peolpe post this up can we have peace muslim hav gone through a lot of s**T during the tears


I hope people will respect that, but somehow I doubt it.
I understand hat you mean, though: in Europe, the cartoon discussion is slowly moving into that sensible direction, and finally some people start realising that this problem is consisting of more than just the ridiculous and violent response in the Middle East.

And to those that immedeately pull the "freedom of speech"-card (funny, as those are usually the same that start foaming when someone talks critical about the US) - freedom of speech is a freedom to express yourself, not a carte blanche to offend.

As far as Moore's films are concerned: yes, he's a pretentious prick, but his statements are as true or false as the ones made by the Bush administration - both are creative with facts and the thruth, both manipulate and deceive, and both are compulsive lyers. The difference is that the words of only one (have) lead to war, thousands of casualties and truckloads of misery.
[/quote]

Christianity gets ridiculed left and right, because people will never DIE as a result of making fun of them, because the clear teaching in the faith is to not cause harm to people, and to _not be offended by what people do or say_ at all.. never. no exceptions. Not even when they make fun of our Lord in a jar of piss.. !!!
..there are some people who are definate exceptions to this rule, _but they are quickly condemned as unfaithful, or not even a true Christian if they become nasty, or violent in the least._

You have to at least consider the actions of these 'few'? Muslims that are killing people, and causing a huge uproar of violence over a cartoon. Is this peaceful? Is this love? Is this tolerant?
--Are the sympathetic to these _ghastly reactions_ scared of offending someone who just may hurt or kill them, or are they seriously misguided to believe that they are peaceful, and full of love, even though their reactions are quite the opposite?? I would love to hear an honest answer to that question.

I can see defending yourself against the murder of your people, but a cartoon causing a huge stink like this?? --again, is this true peace, and love? HONESTLY..?

I have looked into this more, and found that the orthodox teaching of 'peace' as found in the Quran is a future tense, after the world is _conquered_ by the faith.. _Then there will be 'peace' _ as the Quran states.
_I will admit that there are many in the faith that do not live by this, but the true 'orthodox' people of the faith know this._ I have done some research.. correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm getting.

I also have asked some Christian missionarys about what is going on in Africa, with the spread of the Muslim faith in the Sudan.. I am quite sure no sympathetic person wants to hear this answer. People do not want to know this sad FACT.
But I will say it because I am not afraid of being flamed.~ 
These missionarys are saying that Sudanese Muslims of the military, are killing/raping whole villiages with machine guns who will not reject Christ, and become Muslim. Why would the missionarys lie? That would be a horrible lie if that is one.. I happen to trust and believe these people. They are faithful Christians who are delivering these messages.

Again, I do not believe that all Muslims are like that, .... just laying out some facts for you. Take it or leave it.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> i *im not saying that trying to start sh*t, i want a response
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As to why this response to a bunch of cartoons. Why do many Americans react so furiously, as if stung by a killer bee, towards any hint of criticism? Why do people start crying when I say something not so nice about the USA, a fricking post on a fricking internet message board?
Apparantly because something they deeply care about is being criticised, and certain individuals tend to loose their sense of rationale when that happens. For Muslims their Prophet is the single-most sacred of things, so *if you mock that, or intentionally connect him and his teachings to terrorism (something which is unjust, as the ones justifying their violence with Mohammed's words are clearly in the dark about the meaning of his messages), * it will cause a strong response. Why that violent? I don't know, other than that most of the riots we've seen recently were spindoctored by Muslim leaders in certain countries and of certain movements, and perpetrated by people that had no clue what really was going on, but instead were fed lies to make them do precisely that what those responsible wanted.
[/quote]

Judazz, 
I would love for you to peacefully share with me the meanings of Muhammads words that are being misinterpreted. I am certainly confused by this.. which is it? peace and love, or violence at the drop of a hat? please share from the book, you seem to know

these teachings are obviosly being either strictly obeyed, or sencelessly misinterpreted by thousands of followers. thank you


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Again, I do not believe that all Muslims are like that, .... just laying out some facts for you. Take it or leave it.


I'm not so sure it really matters if a small percentage of Muslims are violent radicals or a large percentage is.

If someone commits an act of terrorism in the name of Christianity, such as an abortion clinic bombing, the vast majority of Christians are quick to condemn these terrorist and marginalize and isolate anyone who threatens violence. I don't see any evidence of this happening in the Muslim community.

Every time I ask for an answer to this question, I get an answer like, "You're a big bad American. You deserve everything that hapens to you because of all the atrocities inflicted upon Muslims around the world by the U.S."


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Puff, DannyBoy17 - I put your hockey posts in a separate thread

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...0&#entry1362097

No more derailing, please


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Bullsnake said:


> Again, I do not believe that all Muslims are like that, .... just laying out some facts for you. Take it or leave it.


I'm not so sure it really matters if a small percentage of Muslims are violent radicals or a large percentage is.

If someone commits an act of terrorism in the name of Christianity, such as an abortion clinic bombing, the vast majority of Christians are quick to condemn these terrorist and marginalize and isolate anyone who threatens violence. I don't see any evidence of this happening in the Muslim community.

Every time I ask for an answer to this question, I get an answer like, "You're a big bad American. You deserve everything that hapens to you because of all the atrocities inflicted upon Muslims around the world by the U.S."
[/quote]
Yes i have read that, to your defense.

It is not a political, or country where you are from question.. it is a question about the Muslim faith period.
I for one want to hear someone who knows the faith come in here and condemn these types of actions from the Quran itself.
I have never once heard this from anyone in the faith. This is quite disturbing, and it certainly leaves the door wide open for one to believe that 'peace' in the Quran IS of a future tense, after the world is Muslim, as I have found in my search to the answer to this question..

Now on that note, someone come in with quran scriptures to refute these actions, or we will in truth have to question the peace of this faith.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

dude..i wasnt "putting words in your mouth"...

i was saying that your posts usually are very level headed and you never flip out or go crazy...which is a good thing. the rest of that post had absolutely nothing at all to do with you. it was a completely seperate portion of the post. hence the double space between the sentences.

no need to accuse me of putting words in ppl's mouths.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Christianity gets ridiculed left and right, because people will never DIE as a result of making fun of them, because the clear teaching in the faith is to not cause harm to people, and to _not be offended by what people do or say_ at all.. never. no exceptions.
> ..there are some people who are definate exceptions to this rule, _but they are quickly condemned as unfaithful, or not even a true Christian if they become nasty, or violent in the least._
> 
> You have to at least consider the actions of these 'few'? Muslims that are killing people, and causing a huge uproar of violence over a cartoon. Is this peaceful? Is this love? --Are the sympathetic to these _ghastly reactions_ scared of offending someone who just may hurt or kill them, or do they seriously believe that they are peaceful, and full of love, even though their reactions are quite the opposite?? I would love to hear an honest answer to that question.
> ...


Dippy, what I don't understand is that I have to defend myself against needless allegations all the time. Unfortunately you do it too... I have not, do not, nor will I ever *deny* (edited for typing the wrong word) that parts of the Islamic community are violent, intolerant, and even a danger to global stability. I just look at it from a different angle, because the situation here in Europe is vastly different. That does not in any way however implies that I am less repulsed by terrorist acts, no matter how some people want to portay me as being different in that respect.
I'm fully aware that there are numberous elements within Islam that use, or rather abuse the Qu'ran, Muhammed's teachings, the Sharia, religious fatwah's and so on for personal/communal gain - that happens in the Darfur region in Sudan, that happens in Indonesia (where, for instance, a number of Christian school kids, of all people, were decapitated for the sole fact they adhered a different religion), Al Qaeda and affiliates are guilty of it, Iran is guilty of it - the list goes on and one. These are serious problems with a destabilizing potential we probably do not even begin to fathom - and these problems should be dealt with, one way or another (and please do not say now that that's exactly what Bush is doing - there's a right way and a wrong way, and in my eyes Bush has headed into the wrong direction, a dead-end, and that opinion I will not change, as he cannot undo what he has done no matter what he does from now on).
The problem is that at least in Europe, because of all this mess, society has become increasingly polarized, and Muslims of all walks of life are being associated with the things their radical 'brethren' are doing. They're all thrown on one big pile, called terrorists, vocal supporters, or, if they do not speak up against it, silent supporters, are discriminated and often treated as second-rank citizens. And at the same time war crimes that are perpetrated by Western countries against Muslims in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestina and Chechnya (and trust me, we are not even remotely as civilized as we so much love to portray ourselves) are being twisted into different meanings/contexts, downplayed or even just intentionally ignored.
This hypocrisy, this relentless finger-pointing, being accused, being connected to things that have as much to do with these people as they have with you or me - eventually it becomes too much. In Europe they usually demonstrate peacefully (as the western way of life is the life of most Western Muslims, or at least is the way of life they want to live if given the chance), whereas in the Middle East people sometimes respond because of conditioning, sometimes because they are being agitated, and it just happens spontaneously (like the more peaceful demonstrations against the cartoons that also happened all over the Islamic world). In many cases I cannot explain those extreme responses, in some I can. Nor can I not explain why Islam in its most radical form is that much more violent than any of the other global monotheistic religions, or do I want to overlook that extremism despite that is something that occurs in _each and every one of those religions_ (just think of the killings some years ago of docters that practice or even just defend abortion, or the extremist Israeli settlers). But I do know that the truth is not as simple as some believe (or at least make the impression that that is what they believe).

That hypocrisy I described above, that throwing ordinary decent Muslim people on the same heap as the radical ones, with a justification that is inherently false, and even ore so because we are guilty of the same things, that is the greatest problem we face, not Bin Laden, not Al Zarqawi, not Al Qaeda, nor Iran, Syria, or any other Islamic country.
Why? Because this is not the external threat from abroad, visible on TV and in the media, difficult but in most cases manageable. Instead, this a silent threat from within, smouldering below the surface but with potentially earth-shattering consequences, invisible until it erupts - and by then it may be too late to react... This is something that is mainly a European issue, as in comparison we have a much larger Muslim community that is also much closer to home, to where all the 'action' is - and that's why Europeans often tend to look at things differently - what we do in our support of the US will affect us differently, much more directly, and much more dangerous than the risk of outside attacks on home territory (I say this without any intention to downplay the scale and horror of the 9/11 attacks, or any potential future attacks on American soil of the same magnitude).


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Puff said:


> dude..i wasnt "putting words in your mouth"...
> 
> i was saying that your posts usually are very level headed and you never flip out or go crazy...which is a good thing. the rest of that post had absolutely nothing at all to do with you. it was a completely seperate portion of the post. hence the double space between the sentences.
> 
> no need to accuse me of putting words in ppl's mouths.


I'm sorry about that, Puff - I wasn't familiar with the meaning of level-headed (blame the language barrier) - it did sound unfriendly, so that's why I responded the way I did.
Not sure if that means anything to you, but I retract those words as I clearly misinterpreted (or rather mistranslated) your post.

Dippy: I haven't read the Qu'ran (nor the Bible for that matter), so I can't but I have had almost three years of teachings about Islam, its meaning and history, the Arab world, its history and how that plays a role in present-day affairs, the friction between Islam and the West when I still studied history (that was my specialisation, and that, or actually a small part of that, was what I wrote my final thesis about).
I had a Muslim professor however, and she told and taught me a whole lot about the true essence of Islam, and how it is peaceful and tolerant in its core (just one example of how things can also be: people of different religions were allowed to practice their own faiths in peace, and to partake in the general community after the emergence and conquests of early Islam). And I believe that, partly because of what she told me, partly because of historic facts, and partly because I simply refuse to accept that a billion people would adhere a faith that only wants the destruction of other religions.
But just like the Bible, the Qu'ran can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways (in fact, no matter what you believe, if you have a keen eye for details, a good knowledge of literature and symbolism and are creative with words, imo. you can just about justify anything with the holy scripture at your side). Opponents of Islam do it by taking Qu'ranic verses and claim they prove all sorts of things, radical Islamic movements do it by claiming certain verses justify their behaviour, etc. But why exactly there are so many of them, who knows? Fact remains that recent history, and the role of the West in that, plays a pivotal role in that (amongst countless other reasons).


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Christianity gets ridiculed left and right, because people will never DIE as a result of making fun of them, because the clear teaching in the faith is to not cause harm to people, and to _not be offended by what people do or say_ at all.. never. no exceptions.
> ..there are some people who are definate exceptions to this rule, _but they are quickly condemned as unfaithful, or not even a true Christian if they become nasty, or violent in the least._
> 
> You have to at least consider the actions of these 'few'? Muslims that are killing people, and causing a huge uproar of violence over a cartoon. Is this peaceful? Is this love? --Are the sympathetic to these _ghastly reactions_ scared of offending someone who just may hurt or kill them, or do they seriously believe that they are peaceful, and full of love, even though their reactions are quite the opposite?? I would love to hear an honest answer to that question.
> ...


Dippy, what I don't understand is that I have to defend myself against needless allegations all the time. Unfortunately you do it too... I have not, do not, nor will I ever say that parts of the Islamic community are violent, intolerant, and even a danger to global stability. I just look at it from a different angle, because the situation here in Europe is vastly different. That does not in any way however implies that I am less repulsed by terrorist acts, no matter how some people want to portay me as being different in that respect.
I'm fully aware that there are numberous elements within Islam that use, or rather abuse the Qu'ran, Muhammed's teachings, the Sharia, religious fatwah's and so on for personal/communal gain - that happens in the Darfur region in Sudan, that happens in Indonesia (where, for instance, a number of Christian school kids, of all people, were decapitated for the sole fact they adhered a different religion), Al Qaeda and affiliates are guilty of it, Iran is guilty of it - the list goes on and one. These are serious problems with a destabilizing potential we probably do not even begin to fathom - and these problems should be dealt with, one way or another (and please do not say now that that's exactly what Bush is doing - there's a right way and a wrong way, and in my eyes Bush has headed into the wrong direction, a dead-end, and that opinion I will not change, as he cannot undo what he has done no matter what he does from now on).
The problem is that at least in Europe, because of all this mess, society has become increasingly polarized, and Muslims of all walks of life are being associated with the things their radical 'brethren' are doing. They're all thrown on one big pile, called terrorists, vocal supporters, or, if they do not speak up against it, silent supporters, are discriminated and often treated as second-rank citizens. And at the same time war crimes that are perpetrated by Western countries against Muslims in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestina and Chechnya (and trust me, we are not even remotely as civilized as we so much love to portray ourselves) are being twisted into different meanings/contexts, downplayed or even just intentionally ignored.
This hypocrisy, this relentless finger-pointing, being accused, being connected to things that have as much to do with these people as they have with you or me - eventually it becomes too much. In Europe they usually demonstrate peacefully (as the western way of life is the life of most Western Muslims, or at least is the way of life they want to live if given the chance), whereas in the Middle East people sometimes respond because of conditioning, sometimes because they are being agitated, and it just happens spontaneously (like the more peaceful demonstrations against the cartoons that also happened all over the Islamic world). In many cases I cannot explain those extreme responses, in some I can. Nor can I not explain why Islam in its most radical form is that much more violent than any of the other global monotheistic religions, or do I want to overlook that extremism despite that is something that occurs in _each and every one of those religions_ (just think of the killings some years ago of docters that practice or even just defend abortion, or the extremist Israeli settlers). But I do know that the truth is not as simple as some believe (or at least make the impression that that is what they believe).

That hypocrisy I described above, that throwing ordinary decent Muslim people on the same heap as the radical ones, with a justification that is inherently false, and even ore so because we are guilty of the same things, that is the greatest problem we face, not Bin Laden, not Al Zarqawi, not Al Qaeda, nor Iran, Syria, or any other Islamic country.
Why? Because this is not the external threat from abroad, visible on TV and in the media, difficult but in most cases manageable. Instead, this a silent threat from within, smouldering below the surface but with potentially earth-shattering consequences, invisible until it erupts - and by then it may be too late to react... This is something that is mainly a European issue, as in comparison we have a much larger Muslim community that is also much closer to home, to where all the 'action' is - and that's why Europeans often tend to look at things differently - what we do in our support of the US will affect us differently, much more directly, and much more dangerous than the risk of outside attacks on home territory (I say this without any intention to downplay the scale and horror of the 9/11 attacks, or any potential future attacks on American soil of the same magnitude).
[/quote]

Look,
My stance on this is not to justify any polical action taken against the Middle East, or anything of the sort.
My stance on this is.. Is this faith from the Holy God of the universe? the Creator Himself?

We can agree that there is one God, if you believe in 'God' at all. We can also agree that if there is a God, he would want us to share the earth, help one another selflessly, and love each other, no matter what was going on--agreed?

Is this what the Qu'ran teaches? Or does it justify violence, such as these riots, and terrorism>? And also, does the Qu'ran call suicide bombers, and military combatants 'martyrs?'

These are the questions I am looking for answers to.

IF these actions can not be refuted by the Qu'ran, we can honestly start a debate on weather or not the faith actually comes from the holy living God of the universe, or the enemy of man's souls.
-Agreed?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Personally, I don't believe there is a god, but billions of other people do, and that I respect (or at least try to do as much as I can - but I'm only human, thus fallable) - you can call me a follower of the nonotheistic religion









The Qu'ran also teaches that there is only one God, that Muhammed is his Prophet, etc. Islam has the same core as Christianity and Judaism and the same people feature in their Holy Story - therefore I think it has the same profound message of love, respect etc.
But along the line something may have gotten off track, and some Muslims started to interpret this original message (I think you're familar with the wide variety of sects etc. within Islam) in a different, possibly more violent way (basically, all it takes is one eloquent and famous nut). But you also have to keep in mind that modern-day fundamentalism is something that started in the late 19th and early 20th century and gained momentum in the post WW2 era - it is not something inherent to Islam, it is a relatively recent interpretation of Islam as a reaction to the state Islam was in and the global affairs in those days (basically a return to what they see as the pure Islam - which also explains their preoccupation with the Sharia, Islamic Law based on the Qu'ran, as well as the conquer-the-world attitude that the founders of Islam too displayed). It is academically recognized that Sayyid Qutb is the intellectual father of Islamic fundamentalism, the one that planted the seeds of the very problem we face these days.
So all in all this means that although fundamentalism is derived from Islam, it is not part of true Islam.

As far as martyrdom: I know there is word of people being rewarded for dying for Islam. Whether this includes suicide I don't know. And even if it does, suicide is not always suicide: people that are held captive, are tortured or even forced to denounce their own religion can choose to kill themselves to save themselves and their faith - Christians did, Muslims may just as well. This kind of suicide obviously is not even remotely comparable to strapping explosives on your body and blowing yourself up in a crowded area or hijacking a plane and subsequently flying it into a skyscraper.
I'm pretty sure Islam, probably just like Christianity, praises people that actively defend their religion - either by sword or by pen. How far that goes for Islam I don't know, and how far those teachings of comtemporary extremist ideology that justify the killing of innocents have anything to do with Islam's original message I don't know either.
But one thing, at least in my eyes, is quite remarkable: all those movements that justify terrorism and the killing of innocents we see these days aren't rooted in religion: they are all, almost without exception, a product of worldy affairs - think about it


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Some good posts did eventually come out of this thread......

....wow! Good debate.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

To examplify my point about that it takes just one nut to bend a religious message out of context: take abortion or anti-conception. I don't know in how far these were known back in the early days of Christianity, but even if it did, whatever people said about that is completely different than what it is nowadays, and also what consequences are connected to such practices.
The easiest way to find out if a certain claim or justification based on religion has any validity is by looking in how far it is an anachronism - claims may be completely non-sensical for the simple reason that they simply could not be known back in the early days when the scriptures were put on paper... I think a whole lot of so-called pure, fundamentalist or by-the-book claims made by both Christian and Muslim can be dismissed as untrue because unrealistic.

Well, it's time to head for bed - tomorrow I'm going to strap on skies for the very first time in my life and risk life and limbs on a (admittedly fake) mountain slope. Dippy, if I manage to come back in one piece I gladly continue this discussion some other - it's been a good one


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> gentlemen we are surrounded by hypocricy..
> 
> our govt is not making us safer by using the excues of teh war on terror for iraq.. look at thesitutaion from the other perspective.. lets say that if unibomber organized a few peopel and attacked a counrty inthe mid east like iran for example and teh iranians said f*ck that were are getting rid of america because they harbored terrorist dont you think everyone of us would be more then alittle pissed off about pretty much anythign and everything????
> 
> ...


Im laughing about Puffs comments. I KNEW some flaming leftist couldnt talk about this matter w/o bringing up politics. Thanks for proving my point








[/quote]

Well, there's plenty of NON-LEFTIES laughing at those who still believe in the Bush regime.

*trade deficit out of control.
*budget deficit out of control.
*a war clearly justified by faulty, misleading, and inconclusive intelligence, when the much greater threats, both then and now, are Iran and North Korea. Now few in America will buy the Iran problem when it might turn out to be an authentic threat.
*dealing with Al-Queda through war on a nation state (Iraq), when the terrorists are obviously a transcontinental phenomenon.
*refusal to disclose documents relating to Katrina. Condi Rice was taking in the opera in New York the week New Orleans lay under water.
*Obvious ties to Jack Abramoff, which the president originally denied. He never lies under oath, because he never has to go under oath.
*Refusal to disclose the breadth of the wiretapping program (if they weren't such liars, we could take them at their word about it).
*Halliburton's distribution of contaminated water in Iraq, which was then given to our own soldiers. The Republican controlled Senate refuses to hold hearings on the issue (they should all be dismissed on treason for allowing our own soldiers to be poisoned).
*Lying that the war is going well, when the insurgency is growing ever stronger and more violent.
*Depleting our military in Iraq, while Communist China, Iran, and N. Korea grow ever stronger and more unpredictable.
*Passing CAFTA, which further erodes the American manufacturing base, through strongarm tactics in the House of Representatives spearheaded by the crook, Tom Delay. Clinton passed NAFTA and is equally to blame.
*Lax attention to the border with Mexico and support of a guest worker initiative. Bush's cronies love the cheap labor, even at risk of our nation's security.
*Alienation of our allies in Western Europe through the Iraq war, global warming, and violations of geneva convention. We need our allies for intelligence gathering on terrorists if we really want to destroy Al-Queda.
*Supporting Israel's withdrawl from Gaza. Hamas wins the election-great!
*No check on the crooked oil companies, which are robbing the public blind.
*Supposed spread of democracy in middle east, but almost every election ushers in an Islamic theocracy. So our soldiers are dying for a Shiite, greater Iran in Iraq. What the hell!

I could go on forever, but I guess it would take a 12-step program to destroy someone's support for one of the most crooked and incompetent regimes in US history.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2006)

Wow...cliff notes please


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## User (May 31, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Wow...cliff notes please


George Bush isn't a conservative. Mohammed cartoons have had an over-emotional responce by a muslim majority.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Wow...cliff notes please


Bush supporters need 12 step program.

As far as the cartoons, it was only a matter of time before Iran played the Holocaust card. Now if Holocaust cartoons came out in Denmark, maybe the president of Iran (the closest thing to Hitler since Adolph himself) would be praising the Danes.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Fargo said:


> As far as the cartoons, it was only a matter of time before Iran played the Holocaust card.


Religion of peace, Iran leaders practice.










Sincerely, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spokesman for Mahdi.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

User said:


> As far as the cartoons, it was only a matter of time before Iran played the Holocaust card.


Religion of peace, Iran leaders practice.










Sincerely, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spokesman for Mahdi.
[/quote]

Isn't it amazing that when they protest and march they hold their arms out that way?


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Fargo said:


> Well, there's plenty of NON-LEFTIES laughing at those who still believe in the Bush regime.
> 
> *trade deficit out of control.
> *budget deficit out of control.
> ...


Very well said


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Fargo said:


> Isn't it amazing that when they protest and march they hold their arms out that way?


You mean, this?


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## SeeingRedAgain (Sep 14, 2005)

George doesn't care for this topic any longer.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> dude..i wasnt "putting words in your mouth"...
> 
> i was saying that your posts usually are very level headed and you never flip out or go crazy...which is a good thing. the rest of that post had absolutely nothing at all to do with you. it was a completely seperate portion of the post. hence the double space between the sentences.
> 
> no need to accuse me of putting words in ppl's mouths.


I'm sorry about that, Puff - I wasn't familiar with the meaning of level-headed (blame the language barrier) - it did sound unfriendly, so that's why I responded the way I did.
Not sure if that means anything to you, but I retract those words as I clearly misinterpreted (or rather mistranslated) your post.

[/quote]

its all good man. in the end you ARE Dutch







jk.

it happens. i just didnt know why you got offended at first. from your posts it seems like English is basically very close to being your primary language so i didnt think of it from that perspective


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Dippy, what I don't understand is that I have to defend myself against needless allegations all the time. Unfortunately you do it too... I have not, do not, nor will I ever *deny* (edited for typing the wrong word) that parts of the Islamic community are violent, intolerant, and even a danger to global stability. *I just look at it from a different angle, because the situation here in Europe is vastly different. * That does not in any way however implies that I am less repulsed by terrorist acts, no matter how some people want to portay me as being different in that respect.
*I'm fully aware that there are numberous elements within Islam that use, or rather abuse the Qu'ran, Muhammed's teachings, the Sharia, religious fatwah's and so on for personal/communal gain - that happens in the Darfur region in Sudan, that happens in Indonesia (where, for instance, a number of Christian school kids, of all people, were decapitated for the sole fact they adhered a different religion), Al Qaeda and affiliates are guilty of it, Iran is guilty of it - the list goes on and one. * These are serious problems with a destabilizing potential we probably do not even begin to fathom - *and these problems should be dealt with, one way or another * (and please do not say now that that's exactly what Bush is doing - there's a right way and a wrong way, and in my eyes Bush has headed into the wrong direction, a dead-end, and that opinion I will not change, as he cannot undo what he has done no matter what he does from now on).
The problem is that at least in Europe, because of all this mess, society has become increasingly polarized, and Muslims of all walks of life are being associated with the things their radical 'brethren' are doing. They're all thrown on one big pile, called terrorists, vocal supporters, or, if they do not speak up against it, silent supporters, are discriminated and often treated as second-rank citizens. And at the same time war crimes that are perpetrated by Western countries against Muslims in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestina and Chechnya (and trust me, we are not even remotely as civilized as we so much love to portray ourselves) are being twisted into different meanings/contexts, downplayed or even just intentionally ignored.
This hypocrisy, this relentless finger-pointing, being accused, being connected to things that have as much to do with these people as they have with you or me - eventually it becomes too much. In Europe they usually demonstrate peacefully (as the western way of life is the life of most Western Muslims, or at least is the way of life they want to live if given the chance), whereas in the Middle East people sometimes respond because of conditioning, sometimes because they are being agitated, and it just happens spontaneously (like the more peaceful demonstrations against the cartoons that also happened all over the Islamic world). *In many cases I cannot explain those extreme responses, in some I can. * _Nor can I not explain why Islam in its most radical form is that much more violent than any of the other global monotheistic religions_, or do I want to overlook that extremism despite that is something that occurs in _each and every one of those religions_ (just think of the killings some years ago of docters that practice or even just defend abortion, or the extremist Israeli settlers). But I do know that the truth is not as simple as some believe (or at least make the impression that that is what they believe).

That hypocrisy I described above, that throwing ordinary decent Muslim people on the same heap as the radical ones, with a justification that is inherently false, and even ore so because we are guilty of the same things, that is the greatest problem we face, not Bin Laden, not Al Zarqawi, not Al Qaeda, nor Iran, Syria, or any other Islamic country.
Why? Because this is not the external threat from abroad, visible on TV and in the media, difficult but in most cases manageable. *Instead, this a silent threat from within, smouldering below the surface but with potentially earth-shattering consequences, invisible until it erupts - and by then it may be too late to react... This is something that is mainly a European issue, as in comparison we have a much larger Muslim community that is also much closer to home, to where all the 'action' is - and that's why Europeans often tend to look at things differently - what we do in our support of the US will affect us differently, much more directly, and much more dangerous than the risk of outside attacks on home territory (I say this without any intention to downplay the scale and horror of the 9/11 attacks, or any potential future attacks on American soil of the same magnitude).*
[/quote]

Judazzz,
I am not asking you to defend yourself. I am having a conversation about this, which I believe is totally needed these days. You don't have to be from a certain area in the world to see what I am saying..

I am merely pointing out to you, that _in Christianity, the teaching is* so very crystal clear that we are not to attack, or harm anyone* with words or weapons_. It goes on quite frequently, but what I am saying is that _you can *irrefutably rebuke the Christian who is abusing people * either verbally or with weapons directly from the scriptures of the Bible._

You stated that you have not read the Qu'ran, so you can not really say anything about weather or not the teachings therein are are truly of peace and love. _We have all heard Muslims get up and 'claim' that the teachings of Mohammed are of peace and love, but we see *even the top leaders * of the faith insighting this violence, hate, and anger, and not denouncing it._
This is hard to swallow. Where are the true leaders of the faith citing scriptures of this love and peace from the Qu'ran, trying to get the people to repent?

Well, which is it? Peace or violence?? I see violence, intolerance, hate, and anger in their midst, towards the non-believers. You stated that you can see that as well. _Then how can you really trust what they say, that the teachings of Mohammed are of peace and love_, when it is 'very scarcely' given?

I will do some more reasearch on this, but I have definately heard that it has been this way the whole time with Muslim faith. I have heard that Mohammed was a ruthless bloodthirsty conqueror. I am working on proving that before I go and say it is the truth.--Seems like it though

I just talked to one of the top Christian leaders who frequent Africa in my area, that since the war in Iraq started, the machine-gunning, and raping of the Christians has stopped, in fear that Americans will investigate the genocide taking place there.

So now their main tactic to kill them, is starvation. The Islamic governments are given aid in the form of money from the west. But they keep the money, and give some to Islamic mosques..

These mosques give food to the starving people for free for 1 year. After that, they won't give them any food, and leave them to starve unless they give their lives to Allah, and pledge allegance to Mohammed.

So they are _starving out the Christians_. (This is love and peace at it's best) They are still burning and tearing down the Christian churches too, giving them virtually no place to gather. 
Is that what we do to them? Do we starve them if they don't give their lives to Jesus Christ? Do we burn down and bulldoze mosqes so they have no place to gather?

You have even read about the beheadings of Christians, the blowing up of Jews, and recently the teenage Muslim who shot a Christian leader.. And so on, and so on...

I'm sorry, but I have to go on.. lol

Are the teachings of Islam radical, or peaceful?
I hear so many pointing the finger at Christians saying stuff about the ancient crusades, the one abortion doctor that was murdered.., or any un-justified violence that has happened in the name of Christianity.. and it has happened! My point is that *you have to look at the teachings of the faith, and not the actions of people who 'claim' allegance to it..*

*I can tell you that 100% of the unjustified violence in the name of Christianity was carried out by the unfaithful apostates of the faith.. * How can I say that? Easy!! _Look at the Christian Bible scriptures_!! They are so clear, there is no way you can mis-interpret them!

On the other hand.. I will be getting an English version of the Qu'ran, and I will be looking at why these *un-godly!* acts are not being denounced by the elders and leaders of the Islamic faith.

My whole motivation for this conversation, is to share the truth about Christianity and show that Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace, and not Mohammad.

I understand that there are people who don't believe in a God at all in here.. but that is just rediculous. There is most certainly a God. 
We can sit here and scientificially discuss gravity, and orbits, the forces that hold the universe together.. and even get close to how it all works.. lol
But how did it get there, and what is it's origin? This is something that atheists and agnostics forget in their equasion. _They haven't gotten there at all yet_.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Well said my brother.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2006)

Dips, I find your contempt for other religions unfortunate







Thats all Im goin to say, because I dont feel like gettin into any long debates right now.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Dips, I find your contempt for other religions unfortunate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


where is my contempt? you are putting words in my mouth.

I am merely trying to get people to look at the truth.. Will you?

Do I want to harm anyone, or am I using words to point out reality?


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2006)

Read what you just typed. Do you not call consider yourself an extremist?

I have heard many people speak out against the muslim radicals.

And your faith, your God, and his name is no less pure than that which you condemn. Crusades? Inquisition? All this in Christ's name.

BTW, Im not saying what you belive in is wrong. I take what I believe in out of each religion, which is what I believe the original purpose of religion was. I have repsect for ALL faiths, I think at thier core they all have thier positives to offer someone looking for answers.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Read what you just typed. Do you not call consider yourself an extremist?
> 
> I have heard many people speak out against the muslim radicals.
> 
> ...


Obviously, you have not read what I wrote.. kindly read it, and comment then and not any sooner!! ok?? LOL

Read and try to understand first before posting.. then, if you think im still an ignorant intolerant person, tell me what I said that was not to your liking

and read in it's entirety.. I addressed the things you have pointed out already


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2006)

I dont like questioning peoples spiritual beliefs, so I wont.

Gnight


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> I dont like questioning peoples spiritual beliefs, so I wont.
> 
> Gnight


you already did


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Ron Mexico said:


> Well, there's plenty of NON-LEFTIES laughing at those who still believe in the Bush regime.
> 
> *trade deficit out of control.
> *budget deficit out of control.
> ...


Very well said
[/quote]

Agreed, one of the most crooked and incompetent regimes in US history, couldn't say it better myself. And very fair to point out that Clinton is as much to blame for some of these things too (like NAFTA). The Bush supporters so love to polarize things as left and right. f*ck, it's just a messed up white house right now, period. And a divided nation as well, very sad.


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## boozehound420 (Apr 18, 2005)

if anybody a good artist start drawing up some cartoons, ill take the honor in sending them to as many websites as possible...maybe if we bumbard them with to many cartoons they'll realise its not a big deal

even some are asking bin laden to bomb denmark...like what the f*ck...if we put one on here will they ask bin to destroy piranha fury with a suicide bomber


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

User said:


> Isn't it amazing that when they protest and march they hold their arms out that way?


You mean, this?


















[/quote]

Yes, this is exactly what I mean. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words. I suppose, to be fair, if maybe 1% of Islam is characterized by this type of extremism, that only leaves about 1,000,0000 and change - wait a miute - 1% of 1.4 billion is over 10,000,000 radical jihadists.







Well that's not much to worryabout, assuming my math is correct. I'm sure the moderate majority will sway them to be peaceful. But what if it's 5-10 percent? Then we have anywhere from 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 radical Jihadists sticking their arms out to their fuhrer.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

This thread has gotten beyond retarded.

View attachment 94189


View attachment 94190​


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Mettle said:


> This thread has gotten beyond retarded.


Actually I've been pleasantly surprised by the civility of the discussion here and lack of flaming - that is until I saw your latest post


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Ron Mexico said:


> This thread has gotten beyond retarded.


Actually I've been pleasantly surprised by the civility of the discussion here and lack of flaming - that is until I saw your latest post








[/quote]

Well said. It's been a very honest exchange of ideas IMO.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

For p-fury lounge this has been above and beyond the usual stuff (of course you'll always have some retarded nonsense here!)


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

are there any Chuck Norris "end thread" pictures?

thats what we need on this site.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Ron Mexico said:


> This thread has gotten beyond retarded.


Actually I've been pleasantly surprised by the civility of the discussion here and lack of flaming - that is until I saw your latest post








[/quote]

Other than the fact it was a thread asking for a link. Good goin' chief for realizin' that'n.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

I still dont see why the thread turned political?

You have religious nuts in ALL religions. Even my own religion there are people who carry things to the extreme. Anyways, the fanatics give any religion a black eye. Islam right now is taking a nasty beating. You have the fundamatilists, Iran, Iraq, al qaeda, hezbula, hamas; who just happened to basically now to be in charge of Palestine. The list goes on. This in itself is pretty bad. What I truly find disheartning is when a country FREELY elects terrorists to run their country. Maybe this says that this sort of fundamantilist belief isnt as isolated as we want to believe. Im not sitting here saying that Islam is a violent religion, but I do beliueve that this attitude is far greater than we want to believe.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2006)

Bamboozolo Hammabani Delightfulness! Whogimmie roomizo BALLABANG! BALLABANG!


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Mettle said:


> This thread has gotten beyond retarded.


Actually I've been pleasantly surprised by the civility of the discussion here and lack of flaming - that is until I saw your latest post








[/quote]

Other than the fact it was a thread asking for a link. Good goin' chief for realizin' that'n.








[/quote]

Right; so the fact that it turned into a civil political discussion means that it's gotten "beyond retarded". Mmmm-hmmm...


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## quickdeath (Jan 15, 2006)

...I am just wondering where everyone get's their information. I mean hell.. I spent six years between Afghanistan and Iraq and to top that.. I was a psy. opps. specialist. 110th Mt. RANGER, special forces, U.S. Army. I was one of the first 17 men to step foot into Iraq.. long before we declared war or sent Bats in... but a lot of people here obviously have better intel then I ever did. 
Yeah.. really great insight, REALLY!

-hey CNN just called, they want you to lube your head before you stick it back in their ass!

ok, well I gotta' scoot..

bye bye fury friends

Q.D.


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## boozehound420 (Apr 18, 2005)

quickdeath said:


> ...I am just wondering where everyone get's their information. I mean hell.. I spent six years between Afghanistan and Iraq and to top that.. I was a psy. opps. specialist. 110th Mt. RANGER, special forces, U.S. Army. I was one of the first 17 men to step foot into Iraq.. long before we declared war or sent Bats in... but a lot of people here obviously have better intel then I ever did.
> Yeah.. really great insight, REALLY!
> 
> -hey CNN just called, they want you to lube your head before you stick it back in their ass!
> ...


well you cant go and say that without enlightning us with your intel


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Agreed. It's nice to know of your accomplishments and titles and feelings about CNN, but what can you bring to the conversation besides strong opinions and disdain for fellow fish hobbyists? Also, is it not possible that someone of your status and even a higher status can still be mis-informed?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

quickdeath said:


> ...I am just wondering where everyone get's their information. I mean hell.. I spent six years between Afghanistan and Iraq and to top that.. I was a psy. opps. specialist. 110th Mt. RANGER, special forces, U.S. Army. I was one of the first 17 men to step foot into Iraq.. long before we declared war or sent Bats in... but a lot of people here obviously have better intel then I ever did.
> Yeah.. really great insight, REALLY!
> 
> -hey CNN just called, they want you to lube your head before you stick it back in their ass!
> ...


Thank you for your service. I appreciate your sacrifice for guys like me..


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