# Little Help Here



## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I started the cycling process on my 135 gallon and it's got me scratching my head just a bit. First off, I looked at too different pet stores and a Target and a Meijer, I was unable to locate anything entitled Pure Ammonia, however I did find "Ammonia" that did not bubble at all at the top when I shook it, this is what I used for the cycle. The ingredients were "Ammonium Hydroxide and Surfactant; No Phosphorus". I have been told to dodge Surfactants, but this is all I could find.

Day #1 (just prior to 104 droplets of Ammonia):
PH: ~ 7.6
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 0.0

Day #2 (just prior to 135 droplets of Ammonia):
PH: ~ 7.6
Ammonia: 0.1
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

I used more Ammonia because I was looking for the 1 - 2 ppm range. I was shocked by the appearance of Nitrate, yes NitrAte, and thought this must be a fluke...

Day #3 (just prior to 125 droplets of Ammonia):

PH: ~ 7.6
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

I was able to raise the Ammonia slightly more







, however the Nitrate level proved not to be a fluke, 10.0,







what's up?

- Is the Ammonia I am using adequate?
- Should I increase ammonia dosage to increase ammonia level?
- What is up with the seemingly premature Nitrate level?
- Just how much will Nitrite "spike"?
- After the Nitrite spike, what is considered the level at which Nitrate has spiked?

Any advice would help,

Kyle


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Is there asny used filter media in there or somethign like a substrate that was from another established tank becasue it looks like something is in there already turning the NH4 into NO3.

There really is no reason to dose with ammonia unless you are in a rush. I would just add some bacteria to it then let nature do the rest.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

The Penguin 350 biowheels (3 of them) are from the tank. I cleaned this tank out completely, soap and water, and all of the filters, everything was ***** and span when I put water back in; I'm talking total disassemble, restart of the tank.

I am using Ammonia because I am following that "Fishless Cycling 101" post that was saved on the forum, I figured it was the best bet. Also I wanted to add all of my fish at one time, as in, only have to pay shipping once, with other methods I have read you can only add 25% of total fish at one time, and I'm not paying to ship fish 4 times. I heard one of the primary benefits of this method is that all fish can go in at once.


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

You can buy a 5 lb bag of Urea from amazon.com for 10 bucks. It breaks down to ammonia and carbon dioxide when you add it to water and there are no surfactants or detergents in it. That much Urea should help you with fishless cycling for a very very long time.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I was sort of hoping I was on the right track. I also was hoping that there was some perfectly rational reason Nitrates are already up. Should I just keep putting this ammonia in? or is it detremental to the tank. According to that "Fishless Cycling 101" I have yet to do something wrong.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

sean-820 said:


> Is there asny used filter media in there or somethign like a substrate that was from another established tank becasue it looks like something is in there already turning the NH4 into NO3.


If your right though, wouldn't the tank be cycled already? That would be odd to say the least...


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

I answered your questions in your PM. Nitrates are probably from your tap water.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Thanks for all your help Dr. I took param's again today;

Day 4 (Just prior to 150 drops of Ammonia):
PH: ~ 7.6
Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrite: 0.0
NItrate: 10.0

Ammonia is at a steady increase, which is encouraging







. I will stick with your recommendation, Dr. Giggles, of one drop per gallon, probably around 120 or so once I subtract the sand. I read your message after the ammonia dosage today.

Only one last question, what and when will I need to add to the tank because of the use of Surfactants. If I am hearing you correctly, this was not an ideal choice, however adding something to the tank will eliminate the impurities caused by the surfactants?

Thanks again for all the help,

Kyle


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## jacks (Aug 6, 2007)

Kyle2154 said:


> I started the cycling process on my 135 gallon and it's got me scratching my head just a bit. First off, I looked at too different pet stores and a Target and a Meijer, I was unable to locate anything entitled Pure Ammonia, however I did find "Ammonia" that did not bubble at all at the top when I shook it, this is what I used for the cycle. The ingredients were "Ammonium Hydroxide and Surfactant; No Phosphorus". I have been told to dodge Surfactants, but this is all I could find.
> 
> Day #1 (just prior to 104 droplets of Ammonia):
> PH: ~ 7.6
> ...


my fishes have been healthy for nearly 1 year with no testers just throw in about five gold fish raise the temp wait a week and add piranha change 60 percent of water per week all will be ok maybe add some driftwood


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i don't think it's a good idea to advocate throwing fish into a tank without properly cycling first. i hear alot of people say that everything will be ok because i did it and my fish are fine, but there are many more people who didn't wait for their tank to cycle and they lost some or all of their fish. test kits are also a valuable thing to have and to know how to use properly.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Kyle2154 said:


> Thanks for all your help Dr. I took param's again today;
> 
> Day 4 (Just prior to 150 drops of Ammonia):
> PH: ~ 7.6
> ...


PM sent, however incase other users use ammonia with surfactants, just throw a nylon filter bag filled with a quality active carbon rinsed well and placed in your filter to remove any impurities.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Tested Params again today:

Day 5 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)
PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: 1.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Ammonia is finally in the 1.0 - 2.0 range, I'll have to make sure it doesn't climb over 2.0. PH did test higher today, not sure why.

Thanks for all the info giggles. As far as throwing fish in, that is how I got into this mess early last year. Trying to cycle a tank that was overcrowded with 10 p's gave me a lot of trouble. I found myself doing 50% water changes daily to no end. After 45 days of 50% water changes and an ammonia level off the chart I knew the bio load would never catch up, nor was ammonia even at a level to be contained. This is my restart, and I'm not doing it like before. Just my own personal opinion.

I will probably post my daily testing's until cycle is complete, for those who care to see how/if this works.

Thanks to all,

Kyle


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

You can expect the ammonia level to get in the 4.0 + range. With a bit of luck nitrites will appear soon and you will be able to cut the dosage in half. The only thing that will raise pH would be decor and or gravel and some fake plants I have seen do this. You should expect nitrites in the next 2-4 days.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #6 (Just prior to 120 drops of Ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.8
Ammonia: 1.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Perhaps PH has been around 7.8 this whole time, sometimes it's so difficult to tell on the test tubes which color it is. Ammonia didn't increase, but nothing seems too odd. I can't wait until I see the Nitrite spike.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #7 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 2.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Day #8 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 2.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Nothing has changed the past three days, just playing the waiting game...


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## VRM (Jan 9, 2007)

i cycled mine by getting some used foam media and adding it to my fiters. let it go a couple of days and added some hardy fish .about 2 weeks everything was fine. never had a problem since


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #9 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 2.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Day #10 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 3.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Ammonia is still gradually building, but this is getting insanely frustrating waiting for the Nitrite spike. Every day I measure it, it just feels like I know there is not going to be a Nitrite spike, and then, lone behold, there isn't one...

Either way, it has only been 10 days, I am trying to relax and just take my time about it. I just want to do this right.

I might mention that I am not really in a huge hurry, I plan (and no, not just some guy who plans it, but doesn't ever follow up) on adding Piraya, possibly in May. I am thinking, along with some reds, between 1 to 3 piraya, so as long as this tank cycles in April, I'm good.

Also, I would like to decorate the tank in the next couple of weeks, however, with PH already high, I worry that some fake plants may spike it further. Is this a correct assumption?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Im gonna make a prediction that your tank will take a total of 21 days. So 11 more to go.







The problem with ammonias is that they all come in different concentrations. Yours is at a nice level now and hopefully by the time it hits 4.0 nitrites will appear and your cycle will speed up immensely. Just be patient man. You're doing it right so far.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #11 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 3.0
Nitirte: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #12 (Just prior to 120 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 4.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

Just after the readings, I added 4 fake plants and two large rocks (roughly 10"x7"x6"). I also dumped the stress zyme into the tank even though I know it probably is not going to help, I know it won't hurt.

Day #13 (Just prior to 80 drops of ammonia) - I backed off on the ammonia a tad, I don't want it getting out of control, it's high enough.

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 4.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

At least the good news is that nothing I added to the tank seemed to change the water chemistry. Terribly enough I am still getting no where









I talked to a guy at my LFS about "Nitrifying Bacteria" and he handed me a bottle of something that, if my memory serves me right, had the words "Nitrite" and "Bacteria" on it. Is there anything you guys would recommend to sort of jump start this process a little? The last LFS guy I talked to handed me stress zyme for a fishless cycle, which I have learned is inadequate.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with Jerry...the nitrates are probably from your water.

Personally...I wouldnt add anymore ammonia until you get a nitrite reading and ammonia starts to drop off. It seems pointless imo...and it will just create more nitrates when the cycle is finished. I would wait until your nitrites start to raise and your ammonia drops off in the 1 or 2 ppm range...then resume ammonia to feed the established bacteria. Right now you are simply building ammonia levels as if you were going to have a massive bio-load when the cycle is done. When you get nitrites you will need to feed the bacteria...but until then...I dont see a need.

I have always had a hard time understanding the process behind the directions for a fishless cycle...why not just dump ammonia in until you get a 3ppm or so......then wait for nitrites to show up....and then do the daily dosing to feed the bacteria? Does ammonia deteriorate over time? I realize it is a simulation of fish waste...but it seems pointless to me feed bacteria at a specified level until it actually gets there. He has been doing daily dosing for 2 weeks....couldnt he have just dumped it in day one and had the same effect?

To jump start things.....just post a thread to ask someone in Michigan for some media or gravel from an established tank...I am sure someone will help you out.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Assuming ammonia does not deteriorate you must be right. I will cease ammonia dosage until it drops below 1 ppm or nitrites show up.

I thought the same thing about the out of control ammonia level, that's why I dropped it 33%, but as of now it will stop.

What about just throwing a fish in the tank? any ole fish. or will that do nothing the ammonia is not already providing?

I will ask a couple of fish stores for in old filter pad or some gravel.

Thanks for all the help


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I wouldnt toss a fish in there with that level of ammonia...that would be rough. You can toss in a few pieces of frozen shrimp..it will create ammonia as it decays...but you might as well just stick to the drops..it is the same thing.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Since Kyles intention is to get 6 p's roughly in a 135G i would continue on with the daily dosages until nitrite spike. And then cut in half. If it was a single serra we were talking about maybe but we all know 6 pygos create a sh*t load of ammonia. Thats just my 2 cents. Jeff, I wouldnt see a problem doing it the way you're thinking dumping in a shitload of ammonia from the beginning and leaving it alone until nitrite spike and then adding daily half dosages. The one good thing is an established filter will take approximately 15 hours to double its colony if need be. Is that 15 hours enough to hurt the fish if a mini cycle occurs. I would think it would. With a set amount of ammonia daily till X and then cut in half till X the tank is ready for a full complement of fish without guessing. Though, you have raised this point in the past, and i must say I am curious of what the result would be. One day I will cycle a tank that way and see what happens. My last cycle I learned even though 2 tanks cycled at the same time with the exact same ammonia source but with 2 different pH levels you get 2 different results. Temperature I found out also plays a role. Higher the temp the faster the cycle. Maybe on the next cycle I will try dumping 12 days of ammonia on the first day and then waiting till the nitrite spike before adding half dosages daily till complete. Either way will work imo. I am just siding with consistency on a daily basis. One question to answer is if you dump a shitload at once are you overloading for the nitrifier to convert the ammonia to nitrites before the nitrifier that converts nitrite to nitrates can populate or it doesnt matter. I really never studied chemistry so I dont know the nuts and bolts. I hope im not losing you. Ill stop right here for now.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks Jerry! I was following you...and I am sure there are probably flaws in my thinking. I do understand what you are saying about feeding to establish a bio-load for your stocking plans. What the daily amount of ammonia a shoal will create I have no idea...but I am sure it is up there. Are the number of drops of ammonia people add determined by the stocking of the tank...or the gallons? I would think that determining the amount of waste a fish would create per day...in terms of ammonia ppm....would be a good method. I know this depends on many factors...size...feeding..that kind of thing...but even getting an estimate would give you a starting place for daily dosing once nitrites appear. I dont know dude...this is why I have multiple filters on tanks...so I have a ready supply of cycled filters......and dont need to think about it!

I would be interested in your results should you try this out!


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #14

PH: ~ 7.9
Ammonia: ~ 4.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 10.0

I tried to do some proactive stuff today. I went down to my lfs and got an old filter pad from the guy. Pad looked good and "bacteriay". I cut it into 5 pieces and threw the big 5"x5" chunks in my filters.

At night I kept thinking about all this ammonia talk and whether to stay consistant or not. I just cut the difference and put in 40 drops of ammonia.

I will post today (Day #15) tomorrow, as I am out of town and won't be home until very late tonight to test.

thanks


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #15

Nitrite: 0.0

I only tested Nitrite as I got in late. I will do a test on all param's and post tomorrow for everyone.

I really hope the old filter media will kick this operation into gear.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Kyle2154 said:


> Day #15
> 
> Nitrite: 0.0
> 
> ...


If you threw in some old filter media that had nitrifiers on the bio media than you may not see nitrites at all but you will notice the ammonia starting to go down.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #16 (Just prior to 50 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.8 (Although it appears like nothing it was def. a different shade indicating a drop)
Ammonia: ~ 4.0
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: ~ 15.0 (Nitrate is so tough to distinguish on the chart, although it did appear higher)

Day #17 (Today; Just prior to 50 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.8
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite: 1.0
Nitrate: ~ 15.0 (Again, very ambiguous, but appears to be an increase from day #14)

This is awesome right?


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #18 (Just prior to 65 drops of ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.6 (A drop)
Ammonia: ~ 1.0 (Huge Drop)
Nitrite: 1.0 - 2.0
Nitrate: 10.0 - 20.0

Ammonia had plumeted so quickly that I figured I would throw in 65 drops instead of 60. Everything is on track ergo I must be close?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Yup....you should be....if you are getting a change in the nitrates. That would mean you have everything in place...and now you just need to let the bacteria multiply to handle your bio-load. With the huge drop in ammonia...and a relatively small jump in nitrites...it would look like you are well on your way.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #19 (Just prior to 60 drops of Ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.4
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 1.0 - 2.0
Nitrate: 5.0

Everything is changing so fast; I get the PH dip, but Ammonia just dropped off completely. I would feel I was right on track, but the Nitrate is dipping too. That's not supposed to happen, is it?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

No idea why the nitrates would be dropping. With ammonia dropping and nitrites staying the same....the nitrates should be increasing....especially since you continue to dose ammonia.

You might want to take a water sample into a lfs and have them test it.....


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I went back and retested the tap water, it does indeed come out to 10.0 for Nitrate.

Everything seems in line except for the Nitrate correct?

Could it be because Ammonia went to 0 and there was nothing to "feed" on...or is this totally illogical?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Nitrates are only reduced by water changes or a lot of plants. If you dont have bacteria to convert nitrites to nitrates....and you have live plants in the tank...that could explain the drop in nitrates. Not sure why the nitrites are sitting at the same level and ammonia is dropping.....nitrites are the byproduct of the bacteria that consumes ammonia.....so the nitrites should be rising.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Ive had that happen before where ammonia dropped off to zero and nitrites stayed at the same level for only a couple days. I would assume the nitrifiers that consume ammonia were caught up where the nitrifiers for the nitrites were/are still building up. As long as you feed the tank ammonia every day at around the same time I wouldnt worry about it. But having nitrates drop off without any water change or 100's of plants in the tank doesnt make sense especially when you were at close to 20 ppm. What kind of test kit are you using ? Ignoring your nitrate test result and just looking at the ammonia and nitrite result it looks like your cycle will be done in the next 24-48 hours. As GG said take a sample to your lfs to test and see what there findings are and compare your findings with theirs. Make sure they do not use the strips but the test vials only.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #20 (Just prior to 60 drops of Ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.4
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: ~ 1.0
Nitrate: 5.0

It seems Ammonia just keeps getting gobbled up. Nitrite appears down, however, this may just be a lighting issue, as I have never truely tested Nitrite at a firm 2.0. The purplish color that it is, is very hard to distinguish between 1.0 and 5.0

I have to be doing the test correctly, I am using the test tube kit, it's not in front of me, but I think it is API? With two bottles for ammonia and two bottles for Nitrate. The initial shade from the tube is radically different then it used to be (for Nitrate), but after adding the dosage from the second bottle and shaking it for a minute it actually lightens up.

I really don't want to have to take a sample down to my LFS, for fear I may look like an idiot. However, last time you guys recommended that I go get some filter media from my LFS it worked like a charm. I'll wait it out a few more days.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Kyle2154 said:


> Day #20 (Just prior to 60 drops of Ammonia)
> 
> PH: ~ 7.4
> Ammonia: 0.0
> ...


As long as you are shaking the 2nd bottle for at least 30 seconds before combining it with bottle 1 and then shaking the tube with the contents of both bottles for 1 minute, and then letting the bottle sit for 5 minutes before comparing the color of the tube to the test card, than and only than are you doing it correctly. Very important to follow those instructions otherwise test will give invalid results.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

That's exactly what I'm doing, frankly it's irritating.

Day #21 (Just prior to 60 drops of Ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.4
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 1.0 - 5.0 (I thought it was around 1.0 but my wife said it looks like 2.0/5.0)
Nitrate: 5.0

I asked my wife on the Nitrite and Nitrate what colors she thought. We disagreed on the Nitrite, but 5.0 on the Nitrate was clear. I did the test exactly...


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I would just keep adding ammonia...and not worry about testing the tank for a few days. Whats that saying..... "a watched pot never boils".


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I would just keep adding ammonia...and not worry about testing the tank for a few days. Whats that saying..... "a watched pot never boils".


Alright, I'll add the daily 60 drops tomorrow and sunday, and then test again on Monday.

When Nitrites and Ammonia are "0" am I done regardless of what level the Nitrates' are at?

And if this is the case and Nitrates are only 5.0 at the end, what would be the point of a large water change if my tap is 10.0?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

When you nitrites drop to zero...your nitrates wont be 5....I dont care what your test kit says. Yes...you should do a large water change no matter what the test says


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Gotcha, if Nitrites and Ammonia go to '0', do the water change and...game over, I'm done, and ready for fish


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Kyle2154 said:


> Gotcha, if Nitrites and Ammonia go to '0', do the water change and...game over, I'm done, and ready for fish


You are correct, just dont stop feeding the tank ammonia. Continue your daily regiment until the day you get your fish. The day you get your fish obviously you dont need to do that.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Gotcha, if Nitrites and Ammonia go to '0', do the water change and...game over, I'm done, and ready for fish


You are correct, just dont stop feeding the tank ammonia. Continue your daily regiment until the day you get your fish. The day you get your fish obviously you dont need to do that.
[/quote]

Alright, I'm a little anxious to test my tank. I just dosed it at 1:30 est. (an hour ago). If I test at 5:00 will I have an accurate test?

I ask because, if by chance, the tank is done, I will do the water change and add fish tonight.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #23 (2 1/2 hours after 60 drops of ammonia)

Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 1.0
Nitrate: 5.0










I think it's impressive that ammonia is already testing at 0.0 just 2 1/2 hours after dumping 60 drops in, is this odd? I am obviously frustrated just waiting and waiting for Nitrite to drop. It feels like I am basically just waiting for Nitrite to hit 0.0

I will almost certainly do the water change the day that Nitrite hits 0.0


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I'm not going to test today, I'm just gonna add the 60 drops and 'take the day off'.

I'll test tomorrow or Wednesday. After yesterday's let-down testings I'm getting bummed.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #25

Nitrite: 2.0

Can I just throw in 10 or 12 baby RBP's and just let them finish out the cycle?

The ammonia is being consumed, they would survive a high Nitrite or Nitrate level correct?

If PH and Ammonia are stable then they would be ok...?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I would wait. Your only 25 days in...and the cycle takes a little patience. No reason to put the fish through the stress of dealing with the high fluctuations of nitrites and nitrates if you dont need too. I know the anticipation to get started can be hard to deal with....but you really should wait until the cycle is complete.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I guess I'll wait her out, at least a little longer. I really thought this was going to be over soon. It just feels like Nitrite is never going to drop now. Such irony since it seemed like it was never going to rise for the longest time.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #26 (just prior to 60 drops of ammonia)

Nitrite: 2.0

I am not even bothering to test anything else. I figure if Nitrite ever does test at 0.0 I'll just test the other param's to make sure they are still in line.

I am going to go down to my LFS tonight and pick up that bottle of "Nitrifying Bacteria" or whatever it was. I'll just add it directly to the filters.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Just ask them for some filter media or some little substrate...it will have the bacteria you need...and that will get you going.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I already got the filter media from them, it's been in there nearly two weeks.

would nitrifying bacteria in the bottle not help?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The only product I have heard helps is bio-spira.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I added a product called "Cycle" today.

It claimed on the bottle right by the label "More Nitrifiers" and goes on to say on the back, "Cycle releases massive amounts of beneficial bacteria into the aquarium. Each dose works to reduce dangerous ammonia and nitrite levels in the aquarium."

For new tanks it calls for weekly treatments, so I added the dosage today and have a bottle ready for next week.

If this wipes out Nitrite, I will do the water change and add fish tomorrow.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #27 (Just prior to 60 drops)

Nitrite: 2.0

I am going to stop testing daily. It is driving me crazy. I will wait until Sunday to test again.

I'll still dose with 60 drops daily, and I may throw in some random fish, like guppies and stuff, just something to look at.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

"Cycle" unfortunately does not contain the right nitrifiers for cycling. Its a product similar to stress zyme where it just preps the tank for cycling. Really not necessary. No need to add random fish, why subject them to toxic conditions and risk introducing parasites and disease to the tank. That was the whole purpose of doing a fishless cycle wasnt it ? What are your current nitrates readings ? If much higher than earlier you just want to make sure pH is stable and you just need to wait on the nitrifier for nitrites to populate. The only reason/s I could think of that is taking extra long than a normal fishless cycle is because either your temperature in the tank is not high enough or your pH is low.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #28 (Just prior to 60 drops of Ammonia)

PH: ~ 7.4
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 1.0 - 2.0
Nitrate: 20.0

Nitrate is defidentally up, I would like to say Nitrite is down slightly but I can't say for sure. It is deffidentally above 1.0 still.

Does Nitrate climbing mean Nitrite is being converted?

On a side note, there are microscopic snails all over the tank, they are actually kind of cool, unless of course they get bigger then a big grain of pepper.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Nitrates rising does mean that the ammonia is turning into nitrites and the nitrites are being converted to nitrates. What temperature are you keeping the tank at during the cycle ?


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I keep the heater set at 80, looking at the tank right now....it's...85 degrees.

Don't know why, the house is 72ish...


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Kyle2154 said:


> I keep the heater set at 80, looking at the tank right now....it's...85 degrees.
> 
> Don't know why, the house is 72ish...


Maybe your heater is stuck. Even though bacteria thrives in warmer water your temp is pretty close to where the oxygen level in the tank is decreased to the point where it may have some effect. Try to get that temp down to 80.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

I have a lot of aereation (sp?) in the tank, two seperate hoses.

The temperature today is 84

I'm pretty excited about testing tomorrow.


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## Kyle2154 (May 12, 2006)

Day #31

PH: ~ 7.4
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 20.0

Awesome! So I have already started the water change, I am going to knock out 60% of the water and then fill her back up.

I will make sure to add the dechlorinator to the 40% filled tank before refilling. Shortly there after I will go get my RBPS!

Thanks for all the help guys, as I hope this is my final post in this thread.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Geoff,

I did the writeup that way (slowly increasing the Ammonia over a week) to prevent overdosing the initial ammonia, which would only make the whole process last longer. It also aids in creating a larger "Bio-load".

I personally spike a tank with 4-5 PPM of ammonia initially and keep dosing it to keep it at 3.0 PPM daily.

Doc



Grosse Gurke said:


> I agree with Jerry...the nitrates are probably from your water.
> 
> Personally...I wouldnt add anymore ammonia until you get a nitrite reading and ammonia starts to drop off. It seems pointless imo...and it will just create more nitrates when the cycle is finished. I would wait until your nitrites start to raise and your ammonia drops off in the 1 or 2 ppm range...then resume ammonia to feed the established bacteria. Right now you are simply building ammonia levels as if you were going to have a massive bio-load when the cycle is done. When you get nitrites you will need to feed the bacteria...but until then...I dont see a need.
> 
> ...


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> I agree with Jerry...the nitrates are probably from your water.
> 
> Personally...I wouldnt add anymore ammonia until you get a nitrite reading and ammonia starts to drop off. It seems pointless imo...and it will just create more nitrates when the cycle is finished. I would wait until your nitrites start to raise and your ammonia drops off in the 1 or 2 ppm range...then resume ammonia to feed the established bacteria. Right now you are simply building ammonia levels as if you were going to have a massive bio-load when the cycle is done. When you get nitrites you will need to feed the bacteria...but until then...I dont see a need.
> 
> ...


[/quote]
Wow...long time no see. Thanks for clarifying. Hope all is well!


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