# Elongatus update



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

These fish were in same tank divided for about a month before I removed the divider approximately January 7th. In the time they have been together without the divider....they have only had contact that I have seen one time..and that was right after I removed the divider. I did a water change tonight and while I was filling the last tank I noticed they were hanging together...in the territory that is usually reserved for the smaller fish. Im not sure right now if this is good or bad. There are still no fin nips or any sign of aggression....however I am not real comfortable with this development.

Anyways....I created a thread with pictures in the pic forum...

Elongatus pictures.


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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

keep us informed...


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

just saw the pics in the other thread and damn...that would scare the sh*t outta me. I guess you know what your doing tho...keep us updated


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## m.a.t.t.L (Jan 2, 2006)

I just looked at those pics a little while ago, It must be nerve racking, Wondering if both of them will still be alive when you get home.


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Jeff, I know it is said that elongs come from fast moving rivers... do you have a lot of water flow in the tank, or just your filter and thats it? I was wondering if maybe they were forced to be active they wouldnt want to waste the energy on bothering with each other.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

There is a power head in the tank...not a real powerful one though. I have a much stronger one that I planned on trying if there was any aggression...but so far...because it has been so calm in the tank...I have just left it alone. When I check on them tonight...depending on what I fine...I might make some changes.


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## shoal king (Oct 27, 2006)

they do look pretty comfotable though. pretty colourfull. not stressed out... it would be so kool if the cohab for a long time. and maybe even try some shoaling. 
i wanna see how they are in a year.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Well...all is well in the tank. They were back to their territories with not a single fin nip









I need to tape the feeding because it is pretty amazing how much and aggressive these guys eat and still dont get aggressive with eachother.


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## m.a.t.t.L (Jan 2, 2006)

Yeah definetly post a feeding video


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

WOW, now that is a co-hab. Congrats on the success thus far. As Therizman stated, if any aggresssion shows you definitely might want to add your other PH to help create some current. Other than that, good luck and keep us informed.


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## FishermanCanada (Feb 12, 2007)

You the man Grosse!


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## 77gp454 (Feb 18, 2007)

Serras together, too cool! Especially Elongs! Yes, please keep us updated.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Very interesting project.

I missed how big the tank is and how many you have in there?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Its a 75 with two elongatus. I will be doing another update soon.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

great to hear......amazing


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## face2006 (Feb 17, 2006)

any updates....pics?...great job GG


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I will post an update soon. I tried to get a feeding video...but it was so not like them because of all the outside distractions. I will get on soon. They are doing well.


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## face2006 (Feb 17, 2006)

good to hear...we will be waiting


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

good job on the elongs gg, hopefully this lasts for a long time


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## zhelmet (Jul 21, 2004)

you mean the two elong don't swim much and just stay at their conner? quite interesting. I mixed my elong with oscar and another cichlid before and it seemed my elong trend to avoid confronting bigger fishes in many ocasions.......


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> zhelmet Posted Yesterday, 11:59 PM
> *you mean the two elong don't swim much and just stay at their conner?* quite interesting. I mixed my elong with oscar and another cichlid before and it seemed my elong trend to avoid confronting bigger fishes in many ocasions.......


That's because S. elongatus is a stalker and ambush predator. What you see is normal for that species.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > zhelmet Posted Yesterday, 11:59 PM
> > *you mean the two elong don't swim much and just stay at their conner?* quite interesting. I mixed my elong with oscar and another cichlid before and it seemed my elong trend to avoid confronting bigger fishes in many ocasions.......
> 
> 
> That's because S. elongatus is a stalker and ambush predator. What you see is normal for that species.


Thats what I was thinking Frank. The smaller one has a nice little cave under the sword plant.


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## Dr Exum (Nov 6, 2004)

looks nice.... what ever happend with the Irritans?

that would be CRAZY if they were a pair and bred!!!!!!


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## zhelmet (Jul 21, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> > zhelmet Posted Yesterday, 11:59 PM
> > *you mean the two elong don't swim much and just stay at their conner?* quite interesting. I mixed my elong with oscar and another cichlid before and it seemed my elong trend to avoid confronting bigger fishes in many ocasions.......
> 
> 
> That's because S. elongatus is a stalker and ambush predator. What you see is normal for that species.


Thats what I was thinking Frank. The smaller one has a nice little cave under the sword plant.
[/quote]

I also notice the oscar got less attack than the other cichlid. maybe the camouflage eyes on the tail scared the elong.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Dr Exum said:


> looks nice.... what ever happend with the Irritans?
> 
> that would be CRAZY if they were a pair and bred!!!!!!


The irritans are still doing fine...almost 2.5 years now


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

wow they look sweet together


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## LRM (Mar 15, 2007)

Have you made any major changes to the tank since the start of the cohab, or has everything remained pretty much static?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I learned a while ago...if it isnt broke..dont fix it. The worst experience I had with my irritans was when I changed the substrate from gravel to sand....I had removed all their territories so they had to start all over again and it was a mess.

So there will be little or no changes to the tank as long as they are doing ok.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 04:40 PM
> I learned a while ago...if it isnt broke..dont fix it. The worst experience I had with my irritans was when I changed the substrate from gravel to sand....I had removed all their territories so they had to start all over again and it was a mess.
> 
> So there will be little or no changes to the tank as long as they are doing ok.


As an ambush predator, you have given them their territory, which is small to begin with anyway. They know it now and you are right. If you do change it, even if minor, you could lose everything.


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## LRM (Mar 15, 2007)

Yea, I kinda figured you wouldn't have made any changes. I did a bit of reading on the OPEFE website and read something about cohabing and in it every time there was any sort of change in the tank the fish went about choosing new territories. Am I wrong in assuming that what you are seeing is very atypical behavior in _Serrasalmus elongatus_?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

LRM said:


> Am I wrong in assuming that what you are seeing is very atypical behavior in _Serrasalmus elongatus_?


I dont know if their behavior could be described as atypical...that is part of what intrigues me about this tank and species. This could be very typical of these fish when kept in an aquarium...however....It could just as easily be very unusual. I believe the reputation of this species is way over blown...as with piranhas in general..but more so with this species....however that is only based on the few I have kept.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 07:13 AM
> QUOTE(LRM @ Mar 19 2007, 02:11 AM)
> Am I wrong in assuming that what you are seeing is very atypical behavior in Serrasalmus elongatus?
> 
> I dont know if their behavior could be described as atypical...that is part of what intrigues me about this tank and species. This could be very typical of these fish when kept in an aquarium...however....It could just as easily be very unusual. I believe the reputation of this species is way over blown...as with piranhas in general..but more so with this species....*however that is only based on the few I have kept.*


Good thing you said that (in bold). Comments like that is where nature has a way of correcting you when you least expect it. Piranhas in the aquarium behave somewhat differently because it is an unnatural condition. Which is why you have to be careful in making too many assumptions on what you think you see. Another reason why I think people should buy the DVD from Venezuela I've been advertising at OPEFE and in my forum (sales pitch)







So that you can see other fish we talk about in their natural settings. For myself personally, I go by the fishermen and resaarchers in Venezuela who document the behavior underwater and laboratories. They are not limited by the few we see in the hobby. As I've said before GG is very luck......SO FAR, to have kept them together without problems. Perhaps some of his booze is falling in the tank.







j/k.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Good thing you said that (in bold). Comments like that is where nature has a way of correcting you when you least expect it. Piranhas in the aquarium behave somewhat differently because it is an unnatural condition. Which is why you have to be careful in making too many assumptions on what you think you see. Another reason why I think people should buy the DVD from Venezuela I've been advertising at OPEFE and in my forum (sales pitch):laugh: So that you can see other fish we talk about in their natural settings. For myself personally, I go by the fishermen and resaarchers in Venezuela who document the behavior underwater and laboratories. They are not limited by the few we see in the hobby. As I've said before GG is very luck......SO FAR, to have kept them together without problems. Perhaps some of his booze is falling in the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I make every effort to explain to people that my experiences are simply what I see in my tanks...and dont represent the species as a whole. My reason for stating that I feel S. elongatus has an overblown reputation is simply because in the post in the piranha forum...looking for the most aggressive species...I believe elongatus is in the lead. My view on aggression is more based on territory then anything...and no species of these fish I have kept requires a large territory then a rhom....again...that is simply what I have observed in my tanks. If people are basing their opinion on how a species feeds on goldfish...Im sure they would have a different opinion.

And of course I give my fish a beer everyonce in a while..doesnt everyone









Im kidding....I would hate to see that post "gg said it was ok to give beer"


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I make every effort to explain to people that my experiences are simply what I see in my tanks...and dont represent the species as a whole. My reason for stating that I feel S. elongatus has an overblown reputation is simply because in the post in the piranha forum...looking for the most aggressive species...I believe elongatus is in the lead. My view on aggression is more based on territory then anything...and no species of these fish I have kept requires a large territory then a rhom....again...that is simply what I have observed in my tanks. If people are basing their opinion on how a species feeds on goldfish...Im sure they would have a different opinion.
> 
> And of course I give my fish a beer everyonce in a while..doesnt everyone
> 
> *Im kidding....I would hate to see that post "gg said it was ok to give beer"*


See my signature? A few don't read the entire message you give and focus only on ONE SENTENCE. Yes, I saw the S. elongatus lead. All I can do is chuckle on that. I somewhat agree with you on the territorial issue, but also natural behavior is part of why some Serrasalmus species feed exclusively on fins and scales. Bite suppression, which is the actual issue here is what I discussed earlier in this thread with you. Whatever it is you are doing, the bite suppression is relaxed for now. Only you can look at your aquarium and keep a record of what you are doing to keep that suppression down. While it will not be carved in stone rule, it may provide a clue on what the mininum requirements are to suppress. Or like I stated......the booze.


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