# Bush



## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

the only president to start a war has done it again... set the womens movement back 40 years and outlawed a form of abortion

IMPEACH BUSH









put me into office, ill show you how to run a country


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

I cant wait for the next presidetial elections!! We should do a recall on him also.


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## EXIT 11 (Nov 6, 2003)

The last time I checked Bush didn't start a war, some kamakazi arabs did.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

EXIT 11 said:


> The last time I checked Bush didn't start a war, some kamakazi arabs did.


 I dont think my hate for Bush has anything to to with his decisions on going to war, but the decisions he makes for the people, economy, some of his personal choices, and his view on things.

Honestly, I wouldnt care if Gary Coleman was the prez, and decided to go to was on terrorism. What the terrorists did to our country was just a demand for us to kick their butts!!


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Kinda funny that his vice presidents oil company is selling gas to the iraqis. For 2.85 a gallon. When the neighboring country is payin 98 cents on average. The guy is lower than a snakes ass in a wagon wheel rutt. :smile:


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Raptor said:


> Kinda funny that his vice presidents oil company is selling gas to the iraqis. For 2.85 a gallon. When the neighboring country is payin 98 cents on average. The guy is lower than a snakes ass in a wagon wheel rutt. :smile:


 Somebody watched the NBC nightly news last night.


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## jefandniko (Sep 4, 2003)

RhomZilla said:


> EXIT 11 said:
> 
> 
> > The last time I checked Bush didn't start a war, some kamakazi arabs did.
> ...


 from what i remember bush was handed a ressicion.its clintons fault fot the economy.

forked tongue werent you the guy that peed on the cat


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Well you know what us good ol faithful Californians would do...RECALL HIM!!!

So it actually went through?! Women cant have abortions anymore?!


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

I disagree with you. I think Bush has done a great job as president. He saw potential threats to the US and has taken care of them. I don't care what you people say about the cost of the war, you should not be complaining. Thanks to Bush, you have not had to pay more in taxes, you actually have gotten a rebate and lower taxes. Recent reports have shown that this move has stimulated the economy and generated growth that hasn't been seen in 20 years. The economic growth is expected to continue with record retail sales this holiday season. Productivity in the business sector is at an all time high. In regards to social issues, he has been extremely fair and predictable. The fact that he outlawed late term abortions is not upsetting to me. I could care less about abortions. However, I admire him for living up to campaign promises. I agree that there should have been stipulations to allow the procedure in cases where the mother's health is in jeopardy. Pro-Choice activists are against outlawing this particular procedure not because of the infringement on a woman's right to choose, but for the fact that it might be the start down the road of an outright ban on abortions. If you took the time to research what a late term abortion actually is, you would probably find it very inhumane and cruel.

To sum up the current state of affairs in the US; we are safe, our economy is growing, and we have a man in office with integrity and principles and lives and acts by them. That seems like a pretty good deal to me.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

cfr3 said:


> The fact that he outlawed late term abortions is not upsetting to me. I could care less about abortions. However, I admire him for living up to campaign promises. I agree that there should have been stipulations to allow the procedure in cases where the mother's health is in jeopardy. Pro-Choice activists are against outlawing this particular procedure not because of the infringement on a woman's right to choose, but for the fact that it might be the start down the road of an outright ban on abortions. If you took the time to research what a late term abortion actually is, you would probably find it very inhumane and cruel.


It upsets me that he does this for 2 reasons. 
1. If the woman's health is at risk...theres nothing she can do but die because the asshole in office says its inhumane.
2. Its the woman's right to choose what she wants done with her body. If the baby is in her body it is still hers to choose if she wants it or not.

That sounds bad I know. I personally am against any abortion unless it is due to rape, incest, or mothers health is in jeopardy. But my personal beliefs are not to judge what a woman can and cannot do. Nor should President Bush's. You know damn well if any one of his daughters life was threatened because she was pregnant and in her 3rd trimester...hed do anything to have them rid of the child. Just so his daughter could live. Soon 2nd trimester abortions are gonna be outlawed...then rid of the whole thing all together. Hes not a woman, he doesnt know what women go through both physically and mentally, when having an abortion. Physically, it can make them become sterile if they have it more than once. However, mentally, for some NOT all, it can lead to depression and other emotional problems. My point being its not like women think its a joyride to go and have done and do so loosely. There he is mistaken.


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## 14_blast (Oct 6, 2003)




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## jefandniko (Sep 4, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> cfr3 said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that he outlawed late term abortions is not upsetting to me. I could care less about abortions. However, I admire him for living up to campaign promises. I agree that there should have been stipulations to allow the procedure in cases where the mother's health is in jeopardy. Pro-Choice activists are against outlawing this particular procedure not because of the infringement on a woman's right to choose, but for the fact that it might be the start down the road of an outright ban on abortions. If you took the time to research what a late term abortion actually is, you would probably find it very inhumane and cruel.
> ...


 you shouldnt have to explain your rights.its your right to choose :nod: .thats a little messed up what he did but the public didnt repond like they did in the 60s


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> cfr3 said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that he outlawed late term abortions is not upsetting to me. I could care less about abortions. However, I admire him for living up to campaign promises. I agree that there should have been stipulations to allow the procedure in cases where the mother's health is in jeopardy. Pro-Choice activists are against outlawing this particular procedure not because of the infringement on a woman's right to choose, but for the fact that it might be the start down the road of an outright ban on abortions. If you took the time to research what a late term abortion actually is, you would probably find it very inhumane and cruel.
> ...


 I agree with you that there should be consideration for cases where the mother's health is in question. I believe that the courts have already declared that the law has a short coming with regards to that particular aspect. I also don't care and will say a woman does have the right to choose. However, by the time a late term abortion is being performed, the woman has lost the window of opportunity to make that decision. The fetus at that point in time can feel pain, and the argument is, the fetus is a living thing. The procedure is extremely gruesome and is basically sticking a big needle into the fetus to kill it. Like I said, most people are not against the ban of this procedure, but protest it because it could be the start of an outright total ban on abortions. The way I look at it is that the woman has the right, and also the responsibility, to make a timely decision. At the point that a late term abortion would occurr, the woman has committed to the birth of the child (unless for health reasons) and if she truly does not want the baby, she should give it up for adoption. She should take responsibility for her actions and her decisions. The woman still has plenty of opportunity to get a more humane and timely abortion. That is all.


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## EXIT 11 (Nov 6, 2003)

Bush can't single handedly make laws. he still needs a majority desision. Regardless, it was shot down by some supreme court justice from NY. So don't go cancelling any appointments yet.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Abortion is f*cking wrong! As a Catholic firm in my belief and as a person all I can say is that abortion is f*cking wrong.........It miight be the the woman's body but you're destroying someone else's body! Freaking let the baby be adopted do kill it and never let it live.....f*cking use a goddamn rubber then.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

cfr3 said:


> I agree with you that there should be consideration for cases where the mother's health is in question. I believe that the courts have already declared that the law has a short coming with regards to that particular aspect. I also don't care and will say a woman does have the right to choose. However, by the time a late term abortion is being performed, the woman has lost the window of opportunity to make that decision. The fetus at that point in time can feel pain, and the argument is, the fetus is a living thing. The procedure is extremely gruesome and is basically sticking a big needle into the fetus to kill it. Like I said, most people are not against the ban of this procedure, but protest it because it could be the start of an outright total ban on abortions. The way I look at it is that the woman has the right, and also the responsibility, to make a timely decision. At the point that a late term abortion would occurr, the woman has committed to the birth of the child (unless for health reasons) and if she truly does not want the baby, she should give it up for adoption. She should take responsibility for her actions and her decisions. The woman still has plenty of opportunity to get a more humane and timely abortion. That is all.


I know what the procedure is, and yes its very gruesome what they do, I personally dont like it, HOWEVER, I still think it is up to the woman if they choose to have it done. The problem that remains though is, Bush is totally outlawing 3rd trimester abortions. Obviously he doesnt know what the previous...or in this case...the present law. Which states THAT ONLY THE STATE with the advice of a doctor has the right to say if the woman has the abortion in the 3rd trimester. I dont see when you have such tough guidelines to go through anyway, why hed just ban them completely.

Crazyklown- Religion is a week argument when it comes down to social issues. Which includes EVERYONE, not just a specific group of people. As for using a rubber...accidents happen, they break. Nothing is guarenteed except abstinence.

EDIT: As for her taking responsibility for her actions and decisions...remember it takes 2 to tango here...its not ALL on her.


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## Black-Phoenix (Oct 21, 2003)

Pro-Choise....haveing said that...all the stupid people out there that use it as a form of birth controle should be steril.......


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## 14_blast (Oct 6, 2003)

> crazyklown89 Posted on Nov 6 2003, 02:40 PM
> Abortion is f*cking wrong! As a Catholic firm in my belief and as a person all I can say is that abortion is f*cking wrong.........It miight be the the woman's body but you're destroying someone else's body! Freaking let the baby be adopted do kill it and never let it live.....f*cking use a goddamn rubber then.


I'm against abortion for reasons not on the thread.

IMHO Crazy or Philosophical as it may sound, I totally believe that every baby has the potential to comeup with the cure for cancer, AIDS, or other uncurable diseases...whether he or she comesup with the cure is a different story. I'd like to give all babies that chance...for humanity's sake.


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## TonyTurbo29 (Aug 11, 2003)

Abortion is wrong that late in the game plain and simple.

First the woman has several choices to have that baby before abortion even comes into the picture. The first is to have sex or not. (Cases of Rape excluded) Secondly, they can use birth control. I know some women get screwed up by the shot, others by the pill, but I have not meet one that gets sick from both. Third, a condom. She can use it(Female condom) or make the guy strap on a rubber. It's that simple. There is no way in hell that even the most determined sperm is going to get past all three of those. Hell even two out of the three is tough.

This is not the 60/70/80's were people did not use rubbers. The chances of getting past "the pill" and a condom are phenomal!!

The Late term abortion is murder in my opinion. I think once you can see that it's a baby you should carry it. If you can't care for it, put it up for adoption. I also think that it's bull sh*t that the guy has no say in the matter, the baby is 50% her's and 50% his. So the pregnancy is fulfilled by the woman, so what.... If the guy is willing to care for the child 100% and the woman is not in medical danger she should have to carry it.








Liberals/Democrats


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## TonyTurbo29 (Aug 11, 2003)

In response to 14_Blast.

Who's to say that some lady didn't just killed the baby Jesus in his second comming because he "didn't have time in her life" for the inconvience of a baby.
Im with ya on that man..........


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

1st Bush is an asshole
2nd Hes dumb as sh*t - he wanted to clear cut more trees so there would be less forest fires
3rd hes dumb as sh*t... he started a war on osama... then somehow invaded iraq... this whole thing loks like ken star searching for watergate tapes and ended up looking at an intern WTF im sick of the whole " well if I cant find what im loking for, i might as well find some dumb sh*t so I dont look so bad"
4th if late term is illeagal.. then ill start taking $20 and break out the vacuum for anyone interested... ill even give you the placenta
5th I would have voted for donald trump.. he had a plan that ... he would tax everyone who had over 2 million net worth 5% and that alone would have TOTALLY wiped out the national debt

IMPEACH BUSH, get his dumb ass out of the office before he gets our ass nuked, quite possibly by our own nukes


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## Derek (Sep 9, 2003)

A woman has the choice wether or not to open her legs. There are consequences for actions, and pregnancy is one of the MANY consequences for having sex. Not that I think sex is wrong, but there are many ways around pregnancy(condoms, pills, foam, diaphragm, etc.) and the only choice to be made by someone is which one to use. If women can have the right to play god and take a life, then why can't I kill people that I don't want to live? Bush is an all-star pres. He has given americans a reason to stand together and be proud. He has saved our economy. He stopped bullshitting, and did something about it. if a democrat were in office, we would still be talking with bin-laden and trying to come up w/ a peaceful resolution for 9/11.







Just a thought... Have any of you ever seen the process? It is a living baby. At that point, you are already a mother. Why, then should it be illegal to throw a baby in a dumpster? Just a thought...


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

jefandniko said:


> RhomZilla said:
> 
> 
> > EXIT 11 said:
> ...


 haha busted

hey since when is aborting a 8 1/2 month old unborn child a good thing?

and 1 more thing, this is a piranha measage board, why the heck do we always talk politics? if you want to make a difference, vote.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Abortion is absolutley sick and wrong








its MURDER, it is actully, MURDER
You might as well just go and murder a old man with a knife.

who the hell are we to decided if a child has the right to life or not.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Its funny how you guys always put the blame on the women. Remember its also your horny asses that want to have sex too! Dont use the excuse its her fault for spreading her legs so she should have to go through it route. Thats just being a damn hyprocrite.

As for the father not having a say, it depends on what state your in. In some states he does have a say.

Besides why should the father have a say anyway?! He doesnt have to endure the 9 months of hell that a women goes through in carrying a child. Plus the endless hours of childbirth.

As for the forms of birth control, no matter how many of them you use to prevent getting pregnant theres always a chance. Though it may be a slim chance...theres still one.

Its kind of funny you guys are against abortion, but also for all contraceptions including, but not limiting to, the morning after pill which does pretty much the exact same thing an abortion does--kills the baby.



morningafterpill.org said:


> The emergency contraceptive/morning-after pill has three possible ways in which it can work:
> 
> 1. Ovulation is inhibited, meaning the egg will not be released;
> 2. The normal menstrual cycle is altered, delaying ovulation; or
> 3. It can irritate the lining of the uterus so that if the first and second actions fail, and the woman does become pregnant, the tiny baby boy or girl will die before he or she can actually attach to the lining of the uterus.


For those of you who are using religeon as a factor of defense. Think of it in the way that everyone here [who is alive today] has a purpose and reason to live by some higher power...thus if this higher power wanted this child to be born, it would use its power to prevent it...wouldnt it?!


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

> Besides why should the father have a say anyway?! He doesnt have to endure the 9 months of hell that a women goes through in carrying a child. Plus the endless hours of childbirth.


Your absolutely correct Ms. Nattereri... we dont have to endure the hell and endless hours... but what we do have to endure is the blood sucking bitch trying to get everything she can "for her baby" when I didnt want the damn thing in the first place and told her to get rid of it... If i tell her to get rid of it and she has it.. in my mind, my parts over, it was your decision to keep it, so YOU DEAL WITH IT


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> > Besides why should the father have a say anyway?! He doesnt have to endure the 9 months of hell that a women goes through in carrying a child. Plus the endless hours of childbirth.
> 
> 
> Your absolutely correct Ms. Nattereri... we dont have to endure the hell and endless hours... but what we do have to endure is the blood sucking bitch trying to get everything she can "for her baby" when I didnt want the damn thing in the first place and told her to get rid of it... If i tell her to get rid of it and she has it.. in my mind, my parts over, it was your decision to keep it, so YOU DEAL WITH IT


 And you want to be my President...


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

just for the record... im a bastard child myself... however my mom and dad "loved" each other then she left him basically... it would have been happier without him so, if the guy doesnt want anything to do with the kid and the mother does.. let her have the kid... leave the father out of it, the kid'll be happier knowing that his mother loves him instead of knowing that his mother loves him and his father wishes he was never born

I would make this country a better place


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## marquettelawmike (Sep 21, 2003)

Hey Forked tongue

1) You're an idiot

2) Have fun with the vacuum...read the article below and tell me if you still want to perform your abortions...sounds like you will need a lot more than a vacuum!

It is not like women are not allowed to have abortions...just not at this point in the pregnancy. I wonder why women would wait 6 months or more to make the decision. This is not going to be an issue with his re-election because MANY liberals feel that these forms of abortions are not proper...have fun running a campaign that promotes the following:

What the nurse saw&#8230;.
From the www.nrlc.org website:

In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with thirteen years or experience, was assigned by her nursing agency to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very pro-choice," she didn't think this assignment would be a problem. She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:
" I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby's heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."


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## perrogoma (Oct 1, 2003)

crazyklown89 said:


> Abortion is f*cking wrong! As a Catholic firm in my belief and as a person all I can say is that abortion is f*cking wrong.........It miight be the the woman's body but you're destroying someone else's body! Freaking let the baby be adopted do kill it and never let it live.....f*cking use a goddamn rubber then.


 i was under the impression that catholics do not support any form of birth control.


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## 14_blast (Oct 6, 2003)

> perrogoma Posted on Nov 7 2003, 07:58 AM
> QUOTE (crazyklown89 @ Nov 6 2003, 10:40 PM)
> Abortion is f*cking wrong! As a Catholic firm in my belief and as a person all I can say is that abortion is f*cking wrong.........It miight be the the woman's body but you're destroying someone else's body! Freaking let the baby be adopted do kill it and never let it live.....f*cking use a goddamn rubber then.
> 
> i was under the impression that catholics do not support any form of birth control.


imho institutions are not immune to hypocrisy


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## perrogoma (Oct 1, 2003)

I'm going to have to agree with marquettelawmike here, forked tongue is a complete moron. rambles about how bush should be impeached, says he would make a better president, then rambles endlessly with retarded sh*t. another thing, ms nattereri says "As for her taking responsibility for her actions and decisions...remember it takes 2 to tango here...its not ALL on her." then proceeds to say "Besides why should the father have a say anyway?! He doesnt have to endure the 9 months of hell that a women goes through in carrying a child. Plus the endless hours of childbirth."

what happened to taking two to tango? i guess it all goes down the shitter from rant to rant!! whatever i guess, at least you make more sense that forkedtongue....which isn't saying much. however stupid bush is, at least he can probably say he never pissed on a cat and bragged about it, worthless.


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## Derek (Sep 9, 2003)

No kidding. Not to mention that if any of you have had children, a father endures all 9 months too.


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

you pro lifers are all the asme... EXTREMEISTS who think pro choicers should all burn in hell.. it takes two to tango eh? what about rape? what about child molestation? "two to tango" shows ignorance...
and another thing

This is the exact kinda sh*t that gets good discussions like this blocked from replying becasue people cant control their id and call people names like they are some 5 year old, GROW UP

You dont see others calling the people who are replying here morons or idiots.. as an example im not an idiot. I have a BS degree compared to your what? your HS diploma?

I want an apology, you two dont know me, nor do you have a right to make a judgement on my intellect or my phyosophies


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

perrogoma said:


> crazyklown89 said:
> 
> 
> > Abortion is f*cking wrong! As a Catholic firm in my belief and as a person all I can say is that abortion is f*cking wrong.........It miight be the the woman's body but you're destroying someone else's body! Freaking let the baby be adopted do kill it and never let it live.....f*cking use a goddamn rubber then.
> ...


 That is because they believe in having sex after marriage.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

perrogoma said:


> another thing, ms nattereri says "As for her taking responsibility for her actions and decisions...remember it takes 2 to tango here...its not ALL on her." then proceeds to say "Besides why should the father have a say anyway?! He doesnt have to endure the 9 months of hell that a women goes through in carrying a child. Plus the endless hours of childbirth."


 How is my saying "Taking 2 to Tango" being hypocritical to "The father shouldnt have a say anyway?" I proved both my points. They DONT go against each other. Being hypocritical would be me preaching one thing and doing another, which Im far from doing. Just stating the fact that it takes 2 to commit the act and that it should be up to the mother, the one bearing the child [should she get pregnant], to have an abortion or not. It is her body.



Forked Tongue said:


> "two to tango" shows ignorance...


I was talking about consentual sex, *NOT* rape/child molestation/incest etc. So explain how it shows ignorance...when its the plain and simple truth.


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> you pro lifers are all the asme... EXTREMEISTS who think pro choicers should all burn in hell.. it takes two to tango eh? what about rape? what about child molestation? "two to tango" shows ignorance...
> and another thing
> 
> This is the exact kinda sh*t that gets good discussions like this blocked from replying becasue people cant control their id and call people names like they are some 5 year old, GROW UP
> ...


 I don't think anyone has yet to defend the banning of the procedure in cases of rape or when the mothers health is in jeopardy. However, in cases of rape, the mother has had 6 months to think about it. In the 3rd trimester, it is a living thing and the mother should opt for adoption if she no longer wants the kid. She has had 6 months to make the decision. The whole philosophy for the law is that one person does not have the right to determine the life or death of another person. Could you please give me an example of a circumstance where a woman would be justified having this procedure performed (excluding a case where the mother's health is in jeopardy).


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Guess I'm not catholic&#8230; I believe in consensual sex all the time&#8230;.LOL









Hey... Don't want to ruin the thread but why is there an up rise in molestation from high ranking Catholics, it it's not their belief???? And why did they find dozens of baby buried in a catholic monastery a few years back&#8230; Think they are hypocrites&#8230; Can't practice what they preach&#8230;


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## marquettelawmike (Sep 21, 2003)

cfr3 took the words out of my mouth. Abortions are still legal. The issue here is the partial birth abortions that occur around 6 months! If the woman was raped or molested she would more than likely have an abortion much earlier in the pregnancy when the "baby" is still a mass of cells rather than what was depicted in my last post.

And, you (Forked Tongue) and your BS degree should run for some form of political office if you believe you could make a difference. Also, I don't believe any degree makes you smarter than another person, but for your info I already have my BA and I am a few months from obtaining my JD. However, I think a 15 year old WITHOUT a high school degree could make better arguments than you and your BS, which I doubt you have.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

serrasalmus_collector said:


> Guess I'm not catholic&#8230; I believe in consensual sex all the time&#8230;.LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hey Im Christian...so I cant argue on that one


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> perrogoma said:
> 
> 
> > another thing, ms nattereri says "As for her taking responsibility for her actions and decisions...remember it takes 2 to tango here...its not ALL on her." then proceeds to say "Besides why should the father have a say anyway?! He doesnt have to endure the 9 months of hell that a women goes through in carrying a child. Plus the endless hours of childbirth."
> ...


 It is hypocritical because when you say, "It takes two to tango" you are stating that the father should have some responsibility for the consequences of the actions that led to the pregnancy. For the future father, the responsibilities are doing things such as helping the mother during the pregnancy and being responsible after the child is born. The father has no actions outside of those listed. If the mother has the child, the father does not have the option of neglecting the child and not providing child support. When a father is a dead beat dad, it is a criminal offense under the law. The father has no legal say in whether a mother has an abortion. If the mother does not want the baby, she can have an abortion despite a fathers objections to the procedure. Basically, the father has no say in the matter and his responsibilities are dictated by the choices of the mother.

So when you say the mother has the right to do what she wants because it is her body, you are not allowing the father to have a say in the decision process that dictates his future responsibilities. If he has no choice in deciding the fate of the baby, how can the father be responsible and be held accountable? That is the contradiction in your statements.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

*Yeah!!!! The Queen is a Christian*

*Long live the Queen*


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

marquettelawmike said:


> Abortions are still legal. The issue here is the partial birth abortions that occur around 6 months!


 Thats just it though. They are _still_ legal _now_, however Bush is COMPLETELY against them altogether. Hes just taking his steps gradually to abolish it completely. Thats where the REAL problem lies. The other issue, is he didnt even take the mothers health being in danger into consideration.


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

marquettelawmike said:


> Hey Forked tongue
> 
> 1) You're an idiot


 I have to agree totally with # 1


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

serrasalmus_collector said:


> *Yeah!!!! The Queen is a Christian*
> 
> *Long live the Queen*


 im a christian too, but not a cathlic


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

cfr3 said:


> It is hypocritical because when you say, "It takes two to tango" you are stating that the father should have some responsibility for the consequences of the actions that led to the pregnancy. For the future father, the responsibilities are doing things such as helping the mother during the pregnancy and being responsible after the child is born. The father has no actions outside of those listed. If the mother has the child, the father does not have the option of neglecting the child and not providing child support. When a father is a dead beat dad, it is a criminal offense under the law. The father has no legal say in whether a mother has an abortion. If the mother does not want the baby, she can have an abortion despite a fathers objections to the procedure. Basically, the father has no say in the matter and his responsibilities are dictated by the choices of the mother.
> 
> So when you say the mother has the right to do what she wants because it is her body, you are not allowing the father to have a say in the decision process that dictates his future responsibilities. If he has no choice in deciding the fate of the baby, how can the father be responsible and be held accountable? That is the contradiction in your statements.


Thats just it! It is both their responsibility when the mother gets pregnant. They both committed the act. *However,* should the father choose, that he does not want the child, and the mother does...then I believe the father shouldnt have to pay child support. It was soley the mother's choice to keep the child. Which again leads me back to my past statement, its her body, she can choose to do with it as she pleases.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

I vote for Karen for President.... I love children dearly and consider them our future... But now I got 2 from my teenage life, and pay $250/wk in childsupport....I was young then and incapable of supporting myself... I had no say in the matter @ all.... But now it's pay or go to jail....


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## marquettelawmike (Sep 21, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> marquettelawmike said:
> 
> 
> > Abortions are still legal. The issue here is the partial birth abortions that occur around 6 months!
> ...


 It hasn't happened and it won't happen...quit getting your panties in a bundle over something that has not happened. He is a conservative, but conservatives do realize that there is a benefit to abortions, just not when the baby is 6 months old and you need to stab the baby in the back of the head and suck out its brains.

My opinion, as a conservative, is that abortions save tax payers a TON of money. I worked for the Legal Aid Society Guardian ad Litem division at a Children's Court and I will say that many of the children in that courtroom probably wished that they weren't born. You have 25 year old mothers with 10 or more children with probably 8 different fathers, who are nowhere to be found or dead. The mom is a drug addict without a job and the children either gets severely neglected or severely abused. Finally, the social workers/county steps in and puts the children in foster care where they will most likely NOT get adopted quickly, if ever, because nobody wants to adopt a child that is 1) a crack baby, 2) abused so much that they have severe emotional or physical damages, sometimes mental retardation caused by severe trauma to the head, or 3) they are minorities. Now, at this point I feel extremely sorry for these children, but as you watch a Termination of Parental Rights hearing taking place on children who were hit over the head with a toaster and now paralyzed and crippled, you wonder why this "mother" is still having children! Should the government sterilize these people? Why the hell not. I watched a trial where a "mother" was having her rights terminated for 2 children, she had already lost 4 others, and SHE WAS PREGNANT WITH TWINS WHEN SHE WAS ON THE STAND TESTIFYING!! These are the women who need to have abortions, and have them the minute they find out that they are pregnant. AND, many of these women are offered FREE birth control pills/condoms, etc. They either 1) don't take them or 2) YES, you can get pregnant on birth control.

This matter is extremely frustrating because if it were up to me I would force these people, moms and dads, to be sterilized. Take some sperm or eggs from them and when they grow up, if they do, let them have kids, but until they do...stop having 10 f*cking kids and having the government pay millions, if not billions, to raise them after you f*ck them up.


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> cfr3 said:
> 
> 
> > It is hypocritical because when you say, "It takes two to tango" you are stating that the father should have some responsibility for the consequences of the actions that led to the pregnancy. For the future father, the responsibilities are doing things such as helping the mother during the pregnancy and being responsible after the child is born. The father has no actions outside of those listed. If the mother has the child, the father does not have the option of neglecting the child and not providing child support. When a father is a dead beat dad, it is a criminal offense under the law. The father has no legal say in whether a mother has an abortion. If the mother does not want the baby, she can have an abortion despite a fathers objections to the procedure. Basically, the father has no say in the matter and his responsibilities are dictated by the choices of the mother.
> ...


 It doesn't work like that though. If the father doesn't want the baby, the mother does, there is no way the father can get out of child support if the mother asks for it. Also, if the father wants the baby, the mother wants an abortion, the mother gets the abortion. Basically, the father has no power to influence the outcome of events after conception. All of the decision making is dominated and is exactly what the mother wants to do. It is not fair to have the mother unilaterally decide the fate of the baby and hold the father responsible. When you say it takes two to tango, you are implying the father must take responsibility for his actions. However, the father has no choice in determing what those responsibilities are. The responsibilities vary greatly depending on whether there is an abortion, adoption, or they keep the kid. The mother can make all of the decisions irregardless of the fathers opinions. If this were a form of government, this would be a dictatorship with the mother a dictator. Continuing with the analogy, it would be like blaming a peasent in Somalia for the famines. If a mother decides to make unilateral decisons against the fathers wishes it is hypocritical of her to expect the father to shoulder the full responsibility of the finial outcome, when he did not get an opportunity to participate in the key decision making process.


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

marquettelawmike said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > marquettelawmike said:
> ...


 Amen


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

bottom line is if you don't like bush or the things he's doing don't vote for him. I don't agree with everthing he does either, he better impress me before I will vote for him again.but impeach bush, get real why don't we just impeach every politician we don't like.

so if you don't like bush, vote for someone elese, otherwize your oppinion is meaningless. it amazes me how many talk politcs but don't even vote.


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## PIKEFISH (Jun 30, 2003)

crazyklown89 said:


> Abortion is f*cking wrong! As a Catholic firm in my belief and as a person all I can say is that abortion is f*cking wrong.........It miight be the the woman's body but you're destroying someone else's body! Freaking let the baby be adopted do kill it and never let it live.....f*cking use a goddamn rubber then.


 as a devout Catholic you should be against the use of contraceptives of any kind

abortion is a side issue that Republicans use to keep the poor vote- period. this is one of the only actual steps they've made towards doing anything about it and only now because of approval ratings that are falling fast. The truth is that noone with a yearly income of less than 200 something thousand dollars should ever vote republican- its basic economic logic- why vote for someone whose interests are vested in people in high places and with money instead of looking out for the rights and and interests of the overwhelming majority of people- talking about family values and opposing abortion. They will never do away with abortion- it shouldn't be a factor in the voting booth

I too think that late abortions should have been eliminated a long time ago


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

1 example hmm.. let me think... denial brought on by post traumatic stree disorder... she doesnt realize she is pregnant or wont realize it till someone slaps her around and makes her belive it... and for the last time

IM NOT AN IDIOT

do you people not know what AD HOMENYM (sp) is ... for you intelectually neglegent people, it means attacking a person rather then the issue they present, it shows immaturity, and a lack of intelligence...

simply because im lazy and dont feel like typing a whole schpeel about my rant on why a woman should be able to have an abortion up until the day before partuition (that measn giving birth) doesnt mean im an idiot.. meet me face to face and ill argue intellilgently for hours, but im lazy


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## marquettelawmike (Sep 21, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> IM NOT AN IDIOT
> 
> simply because im lazy...but im lazy


 Lazy and think you could be president...funny. In my mind, laziness is a sign of stupidity and a poor excuse.


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

marquettelawmike, I truely wonder how old you are, you argue like a 5 year old, seriously...I shall not stoop to your level anymore. goodday

if you cant say something intelligent, DONT OPEN YOUR PHUCKIN MOUTH


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> 1 example hmm.. let me think... denial brought on by post traumatic stree disorder... she doesnt realize she is pregnant or wont realize it till someone slaps her around and makes her belive it...


 A woman sure as hell knows that she is pregnant within six months of conception. If she is incapable of making the decison during the six months because of mental incompetence, why should she be given the ultimate choice over another person's life? Basically, during the third trimester that baby is a living thing. I realize that it is stressful, but it is about time to enforce some responsibility. Also, I have been extremely civil in my arguments and I hope that your personal attacks are not directed at me because I can get nasty.


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

according to the american medical association; somehting ois not termed living until it has taken 1 breath and yes they know if it has taken 1 breath

so...


> Basically, during the third trimester that baby is a living thing.


this statement doesnt hold water..contrary to some peoples belief. if it is prevented from taking that breath then ITS NOT ALIVE!

cfr3: my complaint is not with you.. my complain is with the people that cant keep a civil tongue and pass judgement on me just becasue I can put forth an arguement not to their likeing so they resort to name calling..I simply ask. stick to the arguement at hand and show your intellect not attack the person and show your stupidity

I pose one more example.. what happens if a 12 year old gets pregnant? should her parents be forced to take care of it after birth? NO! Nor would she be able to take care of it.. and suppose after the abortion that she had, she learned her lesson and was reluctant to have sex again until she was at a responsible age..and I know that a 12 year old has no right or reason to have sex, but lets face facts, it does happen.
btw THIS HAS HAPPENED


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

I don't care what those f**** doctors say, a baby is alive when they abort no matter what they say. it is alive. needing oxygen and nourishment to survive. it might not breathe with its own lungs but it still gets oxygen from the mother.

Abortion = Disrespect for life








Abortion = Murder









Its not only murder, its murder in COLD BLOOD, the baby has no chance to defend itself.


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## 14_blast (Oct 6, 2003)

Something to chew on and I hope it doesn't happen.

What if you were dui and you hit and killed a pregnant lady that was crossing the street at a crosswalk while you ran the redlight.

Would you be tried for 1 count of manslaughtermurder or 2 counts of manslaughter/murder. ie Scott Peterson case. Why is he being charged with 2 counts of murder if he allegedly only killed one person? Does that mean the fetus/baby is a person?


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## oldnavycb (Aug 27, 2003)

I think Bush is a great president...if u ride to school on the tart cart that is


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

the prosecuter would most likely try you for two murders.. but that is their job... to get the most convitions and yes our system is ass backwards.. try a man for killing (2) but abortion isnt murder, basically the prosecuter is going along with public appeal.. let me explain.. a woman has a right to abort a baby.. if she so chooses.. but if that baby is aborted for her ie hit by car... then she didnt choose the aboretion and thus it is considered murder

fact still remains.. if the mother wants to abort the UNLIVING fetus INSIDE her, she has a right to do to HER body what she pleases

its kinda like..... i have this toy and i dont want this toy, then its ok to break MY toy... but say i wanted that toy and you broke my toy, i would tell my mommy and you'd have top pay for the toy


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> fact still remains.. if the mother wants to abort the UNLIVING fetus INSIDE her, she has a right to do to HER body what she pleases


 its alive, weather you want to belive its a human being is another thing, but its as much alive as your brain, oops, bad example :rasp:


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## khuzhong (Apr 11, 2003)

tough topic


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

ok so i guess lets say i get a GF, and we have children. and then when the child is 5 years old we decided we don't want it anymore, then i guess we can just go and kill it. there

abortion, same thing, just at a erlier stage.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

I could care less if they abolished abortion. The it's my body thig is getting very old. At any part after being concieved that child is alive. If you want to kill it so be it. That child will haunt you for the rest of your petty life. The man has every right to that child if the woman doen't want it. Just for the few morons that woulden't own up to a life they created is a goddam shame. I have an 8 moth old boy that looks at me with a smile, and i think to myself i would kill for this lad.
Untill you reach parenthood, You know nothing about a parents love, and a love that child recipricates back.
I felt like others and knew it was wrong, and never would do it. But when that first moment that the doctor says "Congradulations you are a father or mother of a baby boy or girl" It really hits you like a ton of bricks. And i think What if? And i could not imagine the sorrow i would feel now.
That kid makes me strive to be the best father i can be, And i woulden't change one thing.

But i still hate bushman


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## TonyTurbo29 (Aug 11, 2003)

I think it's funny how the Certian people *Cough* Liberals/Democrats *Cough* will charge a person twice for murder if they kill a pregnant woman. However, abortion is legal... Go Figure.


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## Derek (Sep 9, 2003)

basically, only a woman can play god, and if a man tries, he goes to jail. Baby's are alive. I am a father, and I have seen ultrasounds, etc. Unless you have had at least one kid, and experienced the whole thing, or seen people you know go through abortions and have to deal with it, then you have no basis for opinion.


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## Kory (Jun 5, 2003)

The way you guys think then every time a girl has her period and every time a guy bust a nut and doesnt get a girl pregnant then it's murder.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

1st trimester abortions can be pretty much considered the same as a miscarriage. Since 97% of miscarriages happen during this time.

2nd trimester abortions have to be recommended from a doctor and in most cases of this...approved by the state, depending where they are in the 2nd trimester.

3rd trimester the state has the ultimate say and the doctor can only recommend one, if he feels its necessary. In which case the state will only approve if the mothers health is at risk.

This is why I dont see why people are in a big uproar about it.

Derek- As for my personal opinion, it has stemed from a lot of what Ive seen. Ive known quite a few people who have had abortions. Especially people who had them because theyre significant other didnt want it. Its a sad thing, especially the depression that stems from the whole thing. Like I said earlier in the thread, Im personally against them all together. But Im not gonna dictate other people's lives because of MY personal beliefs. Which is why my argument of this whole thing went pro-choice.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

> The way you guys think then every time a girl has her period and every time a guy bust a nut and doesnt get a girl pregnant then it's murder.


sorry but that dosen't hold.
Nothing that dosen't exist yet cannot be killed. if the girl is not pregnant there is no child in existance. the embryo wich eventully will grow and finally come out as a newborn child dosen't exist yet.

now i don't think i have to continue the explanation of a feetus growth unless you failed in Biology in school.


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> you pro lifers are all the asme... EXTREMEISTS who think pro choicers should all burn in hell.. it takes two to tango eh? what about rape? what about child molestation? "two to tango" shows ignorance...
> and another thing


95% of abortions are done as a form of birth control.
*1% is rape & incest.* 
1% is that the child would be "deformed"... Which I still think is a terrible reason to kill. 
3% is that the mother's life/health would be in danger.

You're waging your entire argument off of *ONE PERCENT* of the total number of abortions!! Who's the extremist here!?

Abortion...43,968,504 served and counting...Hey you Pro-Choicers should get ready to party! It's nothing new, but you're almost at another million! Yippie!

All in the name of 'convenience'.

_'Ignorance'_...Pssh...Try reading the facts Mr. President...


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

...And another thing...

I'll be running in the L.A., NYC, and Philadelphia Marathons to support the American Life League...

Like a good extremist should, of course..


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## perrogoma (Oct 1, 2003)

i'm sure that they greatly appreciate it skeelo.


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

I'll do almost anything to help tear down the Pro-Choice ideals and motives...And the piss poor fundamentals which they cling to.

I wouldn't bomb a clinic or anything...That's taking it a bit too far if you ask me..

However I do find it ironic how they give the death penalty to one killer for murdering another...But that's a whole other discussion.

Being 'Pro-Choice' is an outright, selfish disrespect for life in general...Thank you very much for killing 1/3 of my generation.


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

> Being 'Pro-Choice' is an outright, selfish disrespect for life in general


I never thought someone could descriibe my ideals so easily and adequately, thanx

























> Thank you very much for killing 1/3 of my generation.


Your welcome :laugh:

=============================================
Correct me if im wrong but Markosaur isnt even old enough to drive so what makes his opinion worth spit...besides, its like I said, if you cant argue or even speak intelligently, DON'T! a fetus is not the same as a 5 year old, even you should know this, sheesh
============================================

and as far as your stats... if 95% of the abortions is birth control then so be it.. I think it is said that after 2 or so, you basically cant have any more kids period so.. if your not smart enough to take the proper precasutions for the first 2 times or so then mother nature takes it upon herself to stop you from breeding, hell I dont mind that

I dont stick to the incest and rape thing... i use it but dont stick to it. I know it is a realitively small number but who cares... abortion is another way of saving a child the embarassment of being put up for adopted or knowing his parents didnt want/love him/her

FREE ABORTIONS FOR EVERYONE

oh yeah, and I think its highly ironic that you bitch about "killing babies" yet "you people" are willing to kill the Dr and nurses and others inside the clinic.

Eye for an eye and the whole world would be blind (something to think about)


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> oh yeah, and I think its highly ironic that you bitch about "killing babies" yet "you people" are willing to kill the Dr and nurses and others inside the clinic.


 Quite the contrary...I would never remotely consider killing an 'Abortion Doctor' (Sort of an oxy-moron when you think about it...Seeing as though real doctors swear by the Hippocratic Oath, which swears uphold life, not to take it away...Hence strictly forbiding abortions)..

And the only difference between a 'fetus' and a 5 year old is AGE.. Nothing more.. I find it ironic that you tell others whom you deem less intelligent than yourself to straighten out their facts...Meanwhile you're demonstrating total disregard for the entire scientific community which has proved time and time again that a preborn baby _is_ a living organism...

Don't give me that crap on how "Oh, well if it's a living thing, then it should be able to survive on its own!".. Because if this is true then all viruses and bacteria are also nonliving things...Heck, so are tapeworms and leeches! None of these things can survive without a host, yet no one argues that they are not indeed living things..

Perhaps you should consider the facts...Most arguments that are successful use those..


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

> Meanwhile you're demonstrating total disregard for the entire scientific community which has proved time and time again that a preborn baby is a living organism...

































show me the truth... everything ive ever read (and im not biased on my readings), belive it or not I do read pro life arguements, stated by law and science says it aint alive till it breahtes once, just once, how hard is that

I dont deviate from the facts, prove me wrong


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

If you go by the facts, as you claim you do; you should know that the law and science have 2 different views on what constitutes "life".

The Law (obviously, or abortion would never have been made legal to begin with) defines life as you described...That is; if they're not too busy being hypocrites when charging someone with manslaughter, who has killed an unborn baby that _was_ wanted..

Science, clearly defines life beginning from the fertilization of an egg cell by a sperm cell...Think about it; how else can it go from two cells, to two-million!? It's mitosis, the basic foundation for growth...Dead stuff doesn't grow...Neither does nonliving stuff; it couldn't be more obvious that it is indeed LIVING! If you believe otherwise, you're only fooling yourself. For crying out loud, even 4th graders know this!


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> oh yeah, and I think its highly ironic that you bitch about "killing babies" yet "you people" are willing to kill the Dr and nurses and others inside the clinic.


 A good example of that would be the Nuremberg Files.

The orginal Nnuremberg Files were lists of doctors that performed abortions.

If their name was highlighted in black then they were killed. If highlighted in grey, they were seriously injured. If no highlighting had been done to them...they werent harmed yet. For each name of the doctor, they had the address of where they lived, their phone number, theyre kids name [if they had any], license plate numbers and type of cars...basically any private information. The intention of these files were for pro-life extreamist to go out and kill these doctors. The NEW Nuremberg Files do exactly the same though they "dont" want you to "kill" the doctors...but simply "pray." Personal information, still included!









Caution: Viewer Discretion Advised That link is of the New Nuremberg Files. There are some graphic pics...so be advised before clicking on it.

Just thought Id add to that.


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

Be that as it may...Last I checked, there haven't been 43 million doctors killed.

And why would someone who doesn't care about life, give two craps about this anyways?


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

> Neither does nonliving stuff


WRONG. I guess you dont know what a pryon is then huh?

and I give two craps because 
1 I love to argue sometimes even for the sake of argueing
2 I belive in what im saying (at least here anyway) but I am fairly open to ideas and discussions as long as they make sence, belive it or not, everything that has been said, i have taken into consideration and thought about.. i dont just blindly argue just to be an a$$hole

thank you Mrs. Nattereri, I couldnt think of the name of that trial


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## Kory (Jun 5, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Forked_Tongue said:
> 
> 
> > oh yeah, and I think its highly ironic that you bitch about "killing babies" yet "you people" are willing to kill the Dr and nurses and others inside the clinic.
> ...


 woah thats some fucked up sh*t


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

Please do explain how the cells of a "pryon" multiply by means other than mitosis...Then again if it's not living, it shouldn't have cells in the first place..


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## Forked_Tongue (Feb 20, 2003)

Prions

I cant explain it any better


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

So tell me...

How is it that you're intelligent enough to recognize that scientific phenomenon as true...

Yet an unborn child (Which is much, much more complex than mere protein) is still considered by you to be lifeless?

One cannot _partially_ agree with scientific facts...After all, they're all true, right?


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

yeah its intreasting how doctors are allowed to break a oath.
they oughta have they medical license stripped from them and sentanced to death. they take a life and they should give their own.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Markosaur said:


> yeah its intreasting how doctors are allowed to break a oath.
> they oughta have they medical license stripped from them and sentanced to death. they take a life and they should give their own.


 That statement is odd for 2 reasons.

1. What oath are you talking about??

2. Your whole point is to prevent a death, why do you want to make your "cure" a death in the process? Just doesnt make sense.


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## Skeelo (Sep 23, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> What oath are you talking about??


 The Hippocratic Oath--

_"...I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art..."_

Written by Hippocrates; who is reknown as the father of medicine worldwide.

Today, most graduating medical-school students swear to some form of the oath, usually a modernized version. Indeed, oath-taking in recent decades has risen to near uniformity, with just 24 percent of U.S. medical schools administering the oath in 1928 to nearly 100 percent today.


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## marquettelawmike (Sep 21, 2003)

"I want an apology, you two dont know me, nor do you have a right to make a judgement on my intellect or my phyosophies" FT

No, based on your comments about you performing abortions for $20 in the streets with a vacuum, your continuous misspelling of the word "ARGUMENT," you prefer arguEment, stating that you are lazy, but would still be a great president, and many other facts about you that I probably don't know, but would greatly enhance my argument...you're an idiot. Please, please, if you are going to state how much you love to argue and make arguments, spell the damn word correctly.

"if you cant say something intelligent, DONT OPEN YOUR PHUCKIN MOUTH" FT

Maybe you should live by this philosophy because half of what you are saying is not intelligent, i.e., see above.

"oh yeah, and I think its highly ironic that you bitch about "killing babies" yet "you people" are willing to kill the Dr and nurses and others inside the clinic." FT

Yeah, because "you people" generalizes everyone who is pro-life and masses them together with a small number of extremists.

"i dont just blindly argue just to be an a$$hole" FT

No, you just make absurd comments to further a lot of people's opinion, and my conclusion that you are an idiot.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

I am not saying i am willing to kill, i am simply trying to say. that by doing abortions the doctor's and nurses who perform it should give their lives for taking one.


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## perrogoma (Oct 1, 2003)

Markosaur said:


> I am not saying i am willing to kill, i am simply trying to say. that by doing abortions the doctor's and nurses who perform it should give their lives for taking one.


 its not like they just grab a girl and kill the baby, the girl asks them to do it.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

but the deed was performed, and really abortion doctors should loose their job when they do abortions

again the hippocratic oath

_I swear by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgement, the following Oath.

"To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; to look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone the precepts and the instruction. I will prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgement and never do harm to anyone. To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death. Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion. But I will preserve the purity of my life and my art. I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art. In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal. If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot." _

As stated all doctor's must swear it. but by doing abortions they violate it

A doctors duty is to preserve life and not:
KILL IT









also

Exodus 21: 22-23
_22 "And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul, _

that states acciden't, but abortion is worse since you there have a choice.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Markosaur said:


> Exodus 21: 22-23
> _22 "And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul, _
> 
> that states acciden't, but abortion is worse since you there have a choice.


 You cant use religion in an argument where religions vary among the people. That argument just wont hold up to anything. Besides Exodus is the OLD Testament. At least use the New Testament if your going to try and argue that point.

Times change...people change....in life, things are constantly changing. Its just the fact of nature. Especially with the time that were living in. Times are changing at an even more rapid momentum now with all the advances in technology and such. Do you really think doctors will be swearing to that oath 50 years from now?! I personally dont think so.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Why would anyone wanna kill a baby?

Oh yeah, I forgot...because THEY made a stupid mistake.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> put me into office, ill show you how to run a country


 cookies and milk for all, home-cooked meals and a law that states all men/husbands/boyfriends shall forever sleep on the couch! not to mention "no sex, until i want it" laws :laugh:
















this is where i get chewed out by all the females on this board :laugh:


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

USMC*sPiKeY* said:


> cookies and milk for all, home-cooked meals and a law that states all men/husbands/boyfriends shall forever sleep on the couch! not to mention "no sex, until i want it" laws :laugh:


 I couldnt have put it any better :laugh:


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Well i guess if in 50 years nobody is gonna swear to the hippocratic oath the whole world will be filled with Killer's, doctor's that kill their paitents with drugs and slice pepole up in surgery, i am shure you wouldn't mind, after all its just sick weak paitents.

The lack of respect against life here is sickening.









i bet abortion doctor's are ppl who LOVE to kill innocent being's, i bet they become abortion doctor's so they can kill without being thrown into Jail.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Markosaur said:


> Well i guess if in 50 years nobody is gonna swear to the hippocratic oath the whole world will be filled with Killer's, doctor's that kill their paitents with drugs and slice pepole up in surgery, i am shure you wouldn't mind, after all its just sick weak paitents.


 Its already happening...


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Forked_Tongue said:


> > Neither does nonliving stuff
> 
> 
> WRONG. I guess you dont know what a pryon is then huh?
> ...


 I am in the molecular diagnostic industry and I would consider myself an expert in this area. I spend a lot of time working on BSE (Mad Cow Disease) which is the suspected cause of vCJD in humans. This disease is the proliferation of a prion. A prion is basically a normal protein that has been misfolded. Prions do not spontaneously generate new prions out of nothing. What a prion does is act as a catalyst to transform proteins from one form to another. The best example is in Mad Cow disease. There is a protein in the body that has mutated into a different form. The linear structure is still the same, however the 3D structure has been changed. When the 3D structure has changed, the protein does not get cleared by the body and it leads to a build up of the protein in the central nervous system. The 3d change also makes the protein able to interact with normal proteins and change them into the misfolded state. A prion does not do anything except act as a catalyst. To clarify, all it does is modify an existing protein into a new form. There is no sysnthesis associated with prions.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> > Well i guess if in 50 years nobody is gonna swear to the hippocratic oath the whole world will be filled with Killer's, doctor's that kill their paitents with drugs and slice pepole up in surgery, i am shure you wouldn't mind, after all its just sick weak paitents.
> ...


 I see.

Well then why don't we just abolish all medicine and all.
and everyone will live happy lives dying of accident's and disiease like leaprosy, aids, syfilis, flu's and of snake bites and internal injuries.

everyone will die and everyone will be happy. yahooo


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Markosaur said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > Markosaur said:
> ...


 Hey I didnt say I was for the doctors doing what they do. Chill out.


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## Noble (Nov 9, 2003)

Wow,
Political Debate on a Piranha board! Who would of thought? Political debate is one of my strengths.

Abortion is one of the most double edged swords in the world of political debate.

It is a seemingly eternal struggle between the mother's life Vs. The babies life.

Some tend to think, as well as myself, that people should have more responsibility in regards to having sex.

Others, although in argument would agree with this, will down play the responsibilty by making examples that blur the parameters by which we judge if it is right or wrong.

Not to say that they are wrong for blurring those lines since, say for example, rape and incest are horrible and a would be mother may not want to have her life change into motherhood in the circumstances.

BUT, the abortion law that was just passed was not regarding the majority of abortion cases, which are usually very early in the first 2-3 months.

It regarded the late term abortion that usually involves a very gruesome, Murder in my opinion, process in which the Unborn child suffers greatly.

My mother is a Nurse in Wyoming, I live in Venice. She has access to lots of procedure videos/films. She showed my little brother and I a film of teh late term abortion.

The baby wasn't all teh way out of the mother but when they stuck the scissors (surgery scissors with sharp end and saw edges) in its head the legs and arms flailed around abit (not very hard but as hard as a baby could) and then when they sucked it brians out it was doing the epileptic seizure movements and then went lifeless.

I am sorry, but even the most supposed bleeding heart liberal would cry watching that.

Don't tell it isn't something that needs to be illegalized.

I watched C-span and saw Bush getting questioned by the press two weeks ago. He said he does not want to go any further with the Abortion laws, he said he wants young people who made a mistake to be able to have the choice but he believed that it should be early in the first two months, and that he has no will to make any more abortion laws other then the one just passed.

I know a few here won't be comforted by this though because they are under the impression that he lies anyways.

I respect democrat opinion and politics even though I do not agree with some of it. I give alot of political argument the benefit of the doubt. Alot of the reason I ended up being conservative is because I have tried argueing for both sides.

The democratic side is very inconsistent, while the republican side has maintained a common standard since the founding fathers. I would argue that een though I am a Republican I am afriad some of the Homeland security has pushed back civil liberties a bit more then I am comfortable with, nut seeing many of the terrorist acts that have been stopped in its small time of existence has made me feel better about a few sacrifices.

Bush, has delivered on his word. His Tax breaks have been proven true again, since Reagan originally proved them to work in the early 80's. Since the effect has been succssfully reproduced it is hard to say Republicans were wrong. Democrats have loved to point the finger immediately but it took two years the first time and took ywo years the second time for monies to change flow from the social programs back into the consumers.

Anyways I could go on.

Any conservatives here should go to RonaldReagan.com for likeminded company.
ALso democrats are encouraged to come there and debate as well, but don't post random stuff, the forum has a tradition of posting facts and resources for all arguments made, preferrably a non partisan source.

Good day, and back to Piranhas!


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Noble said:


> Wow,
> Political Debate on a Piranha board! Who would of thought? Political debate is one of my strengths.


 We have many in are archives.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

doctors don't kill people, its the doctors bills that kills the people.....so i say we blame it all on the accountants!


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Noble said:
> 
> 
> > Wow,
> ...


 but they always got ran off-topic because of some nut!!!! so how 'bout them Jets against the Raiders yesturday?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

USMC*sPiKeY* said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > Noble said:
> ...


 You mean your fasher?!


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