# lowest temperature till the point of death



## TJcali

what is the lowest temperature a p can handle Iam asking because one of my heaters went out on me and

I did not notice for 2 days and when I checked it was at 68 degrees luckily I had an extra so what the

lowest you guys ever experience?


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## Piranha_man

I had a group of pygos that sustained temps in the 50's for several months...


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## TJcali

damn


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## Us And Them

Piranha_man said:


> I had a group of pygos that sustained temps in the 50's for several months...


Where did You Have them outside in a pond in october or something ???
I hope that was a Typo , because No house gets that cold even with AIR CONDITIONING.
Low 50's is like 12 Degrees Celcius.

No Piranha Could survive that , that kind of cold WOULD kill them.


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## Piranha_man

Jon87 said:


> I had a group of pygos that sustained temps in the 50's for several months...


Where did You Have them outside in a pond in october or something ???
I hope that was a Typo , because No house gets that cold even with AIR CONDITIONING.
Low 50's is like 12 Degrees Celcius.

No Piranha Could survive that , *that kind of cold WOULD kill them.*
[/quote]

Wrong.
They survived.

So, if you'd like to know the circumstances without making presumptions as to "Where" they were or by telling me that what I just said "Cannot be true," then ask away and I'll be glad to disclose.


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## Plowboy

Piranha_man said:


> I had a group of pygos that sustained temps in the 50's for several months...


Where did You Have them outside in a pond in october or something ???
I hope that was a Typo , because No house gets that cold even with AIR CONDITIONING.
Low 50's is like 12 Degrees Celcius.

No Piranha Could survive that , *that kind of cold WOULD kill them.*
[/quote]

Wrong.
They survived.

So, if you'd like to know the circumstances without making presumptions as to "Where" they were or by telling me that what I just said "Cannot be true," then ask away and I'll be glad to disclose.
[/quote]

It never hurts to google something before you call a guy a liar. I'm not entirely sure how I ran across this article a few months ago, but here you go. It looks like the research was even done by Frank at opefe. Gotta love documented proof.


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## Piranha_man

Good find Plowboy!

Here's the deal.

A few years ago my house caught fire during the winter.
As the top floor underwent reconstruction, I decided to transfer my 150 gallon pygo tank into the garage for a few months.
This kept sheetrock dust, fumigation, etc. from getting to the water.

The only problem was, I knew it would get cold as HELL!
(I kept a close eye on them at first, as the temp dropped from the mid 80's to the lower 50's.
They seemed to be doing okay, metabolisms slowing down... but fine in all aspects.
(They ate NOTHING during the 3-4 months they were down there.)

Upon completion of the house, we brought them back up, slowly raised the temperature level before performing a water change, and POW... they livened up and started eating again.

Surprisingly, they really didn't even get very thin... they were quite "normal" looking!


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## Armand_caribe

Piranha_man said:


> Good find Plowboy!
> 
> Here's the deal.
> 
> A few years ago my house caught fire during the winter.
> As the top floor underwent reconstruction, I decided to transfer my 150 gallon pygo tank into the garage for a few months.
> This kept sheetrock dust, fumigation, etc. from getting to the water.
> 
> The only problem was, I knew it would get cold as HELL!
> (I kept a close eye on them at first, as the temp dropped from the mid 80's to the lower 50's.
> They seemed to be doing okay, metabolisms slowing down... but fine in all aspects.
> (They ate NOTHING during the 3-4 months they were down there.)
> 
> Upon completion of the house, we brought them back up, slowly raised the temperature level before performing a water change, and POW... they livened up and started eating again.
> 
> Surprisingly, they really didn't even get very thin... they were quite "normal" looking!


Yes, sounds logical, they looked normal because as you said, their metabolism slowed down and they got into a hibernation-like stage.

I have a group of caribe and reds in one tank with a heater and in other tank I have a solo 4" caribe without a heater. Temp drops down to 20-19 celcius in the solo caribe tank and he does pretty good. I was wondering how low the temp can fall without this damaging the P', now I read your experience I know my P is far from being damaged for the cold. since 20º-19º is the lowest stage temp can drop in his heaterless tank this times.:nod:, I even could take the heater out of the other tank aswell.

Cheers.


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## Us And Them

Hey Piranha Man , despite what that other guy said I wasnt Calling you a Liar. I have read the article about Franks experiment
and he said around 12 Degrees (low 50's) Piranha will begin to lose their equilibrium. Did you experience that ?

And im sticking to what i originally said. That temperature will kill them. I understand Your scenario and I do not have a doubt that it worked. But as you clearly stated , they Hadn't eaten in 4 Months. You could "ASSUME" Your fish is going into hibernation mode , But I have different opinion. Your Fish are way too cold and stressed out to the max. I dont see how you could have ruled that out so dissmissively.

so , YES Piranha can substain colder waters usually no lower than 12 before they lose their equilbrium , But not forever. and not all types of them. if Your Piranha is wild caught , from Brazil it has an even lower tolerance to the colder water.


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## Piranha_man

Jon87 said:


> Hey Piranha Man , despite what that other guy said I wasnt Calling you a Liar. I have read the article about Franks experiment
> and he said around 12 Degrees (low 50's) Piranha will begin to lose their equilibrium. Did you experience that ?
> 
> And im sticking to what i originally said. That temperature will kill them. I understand Your scenario and I do not have a doubt that it worked. But as you clearly stated , they Hadn't eaten in 4 Months. You could "ASSUME" Your fish is going into hibernation mode , But I have different opinion. Your Fish are way too cold and stressed out to the max. I dont see how you could have ruled that out so dissmissively.
> 
> so , YES Piranha can substain colder waters usually no lower than 12 before they lose their equilbrium , But not forever. and not all types of them. if Your Piranha is wild caught , from Brazil it has an even lower tolerance to the colder water.


No problemo, I didn't feel as though you were outright "Calling me a liar," but rather that you were simply making claims based on ignorance.

As for "equilibrium loss," I'm sure that was present to some degree. 
"Stressed out to the max?" I doubt that. When a bear hibernates, he doesn't eat for months at a time, is he "Stressed?" Hardly the case.
(That's how I ruled that out so dissmissively.)

As for withstanding that cold of water "Forever" (as you stated in your post...) first of all, "Nothing is forever." 
Piranhas cannot live in 82 degree water forever either.

The question originally asked was: "What is the lowest temperature a piranha can stand til the point of death?"

I gave my two-cents worth based on actual experience.
I offered you one little piece of answer to your puzzle.

p.s. You're welcome.


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## Ibanez247

Jon87 said:


> I had a group of pygos that sustained temps in the 50's for several months...


Where did You Have them outside in a pond in october or something ???
I hope that was a Typo , because No house gets that cold even with AIR CONDITIONING.
Low 50's is like 12 Degrees Celcius.

No Piranha Could survive that , that kind of cold WOULD kill them.
[/quote]

You must live in a warm climate. My house got down to 40 degrees F for 3 days cause we lost power in the winter. I had cichlids at the time and some how they all survived. Thats no filter going too. Water temp got down to 46. I think for a tropical fish yeah anything below 50 for an extended period of time would be lethal. It all depends on how fast the temp drops I think than the actual temp itself. You figure large mouth bass in newengland see water temps from just above freezing in the winter to 70 in the summer. Not a troipcal fish per say but still thats a big change in water temps.


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## Piranha_man

Nah, this was Central Oregon in the winter time.
Our winters temperatures here vary from 40's to -20... with little to no warning of such drastic fluctuation.

My garage (in which the tank was kept during this time) stays in the lower 50's regardless of the outside temp, as it is an attached garage with the furnace mounted within.


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## Plowboy

Jon87 said:


> Hey Piranha Man , despite what that other guy said I wasnt Calling you a Liar. I have read the article about Franks experiment
> *and he said around 12 Degrees (low 50's) Piranha will begin to lose their equilibrium.* Did you experience that ?
> 
> And im sticking to what i originally said. That temperature will kill them. I understand Your scenario and I do not have a doubt that it worked. But as you clearly stated , they Hadn't eaten in 4 Months. You could "ASSUME" Your fish is going into hibernation mode , But I have different opinion. Your Fish are way too cold and stressed out to the max. I dont see how you could have ruled that out so dissmissively.
> 
> so , YES Piranha can substain colder waters usually no lower than 12 before they lose their equilbrium , But not forever. and not all types of them. if Your Piranha is wild caught , from Brazil it has an even lower tolerance to the colder water.


Don's skew the information to suit your needs. The article said below 10.2C.
From the article I linked earlier:


> The fish acclimated to 35°C were frequently more active and aggressive with increasing water temperature. The piranhas engaged in fin biting and body bites. At around 25°C and 35°C one fish each from the group was cannibalized. Fish acclimated at 20.5°C stayed active but tolerated their tank mates better. At 15°C, the fish stayed within tight schools and their behavior changed dramatically. *Below 10.2°C, the fish began to lose equilibrium, and at 10.0°C, approximately half of the fish, though still alive were lying on the bottom of the tank. The last fish in this group displayed LOE at 9.7°C.* Feeding behavior was also influenced by temperature in which they were acclimated. Between 14°C - 35°C red-bellied piranhas successfully pursued and consumed live goldfish. When the temperature was decreased to less than 14°C, piranhas in the 10°C group appeared lethargic and were unable to catch the more cold-tolerant goldfish. However, these piranhas still accept adult Artemia until temperatures decreased to less than 12°C. Though it was not determined how much the fish ate, they seemed to hold at temperatures of 15°C or 20.5°C consumed less food than piranhas kept at higher temperatures.


10C= damn near exactly 50F.

The fish were also able to catch gold fish until 14C or 57.2F. That proves they will eat all the way down into the 50's. They were also breathing apparently lol. If they can take a crap every once in a while, I don't see why they couldn't sustain life. Much lower than that life definitely is sustainable for a terribly long time.

You are right about the lying thing though. It was a bit too strong of word. Sorry about that.


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## AmazonAddict

Dang that's pretty cool that they can survive such low temps. Piranhas are survivors for sure. Some of the injuries I have seen these things take and grow back to normal is just astounding.


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## Us And Them

Plowboy said:


> Hey Piranha Man , despite what that other guy said I wasnt Calling you a Liar. I have read the article about Franks experiment
> *and he said around 12 Degrees (low 50's) Piranha will begin to lose their equilibrium.* Did you experience that ?
> 
> And im sticking to what i originally said. That temperature will kill them. I understand Your scenario and I do not have a doubt that it worked. But as you clearly stated , they Hadn't eaten in 4 Months. You could "ASSUME" Your fish is going into hibernation mode , But I have different opinion. Your Fish are way too cold and stressed out to the max. I dont see how you could have ruled that out so dissmissively.
> 
> so , YES Piranha can substain colder waters usually no lower than 12 before they lose their equilbrium , But not forever. and not all types of them. if Your Piranha is wild caught , from Brazil it has an even lower tolerance to the colder water.


Don's skew the information to suit your needs. The article said below 10.2C.
From the article I linked earlier:


> The fish acclimated to 35°C were frequently more active and aggressive with increasing water temperature. The piranhas engaged in fin biting and body bites. At around 25°C and 35°C one fish each from the group was cannibalized. Fish acclimated at 20.5°C stayed active but tolerated their tank mates better. At 15°C, the fish stayed within tight schools and their behavior changed dramatically. *Below 10.2°C, the fish began to lose equilibrium, and at 10.0°C, approximately half of the fish, though still alive were lying on the bottom of the tank. The last fish in this group displayed LOE at 9.7°C.* Feeding behavior was also influenced by temperature in which they were acclimated. Between 14°C - 35°C red-bellied piranhas successfully pursued and consumed live goldfish. When the temperature was decreased to less than 14°C, piranhas in the 10°C group appeared lethargic and were unable to catch the more cold-tolerant goldfish. However, these piranhas still accept adult Artemia until temperatures decreased to less than 12°C. Though it was not determined how much the fish ate, they seemed to hold at temperatures of 15°C or 20.5°C consumed less food than piranhas kept at higher temperatures.


10C= damn near exactly 50F.

The fish were also able to catch gold fish until 14C or 57.2F. That proves they will eat all the way down into the 50's. They were also breathing apparently lol. If they can take a crap every once in a while, I don't see why they couldn't sustain life. Much lower than that life definitely is sustainable for a terribly long time.

You are right about the lying thing though. It was a bit too strong of word. Sorry about that.









[/quote]

Thats not a problem , I forgive. I Guess i just assumed Piranha Man had WILD piranha and not store bred fish. Which in that case 12 Degrees is when they would have lost their Equilibrium.

Piranha Man said Low 50's Which IMO 53.5 Farenheit is LOW 50s to me , Which converts to 11.99999 (12 Degrees).

And please dont SKEW what I said , I said USUALLY . not 100 % at 12 Degrees


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## Piranha_man

I'm sure things like altitude and such play a part in this as well.

Besides, I'm not saying that the temp was "Low 50's" the ENTIRE time... I'm sure there were fluctuations during that time period.

The question was "How low can they go..." and I got 'em down to the low 50's.
As Forrest Gump would say... "That's about all I've got to say about that."


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## Us And Them

Piranha_man said:


> I'm sure things like altitude and such play a part in this as well.
> 
> Besides, I'm not saying that the temp was "Low 50's" the ENTIRE time... I'm sure there were fluctuations during that time period.
> 
> The question was "How low can they go..." and I got 'em down to the low 50's.
> As Forrest Gump would say... "That's about all I've got to say about that."


True Say . I thought you had in the Low 50's on the Reg.
My mistake for assuming.


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## Piranha_man

No biggie, it's just that I would assume that temperatures in a garage are going to fluctuate some.
I don't see how they wouldn't.


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## 1rhom

What's the highest temp they can survive in?


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## Piranha_man

Never tested that, nor heard.

Then again, there's "Subjected to" temp vs "Sustanability" temp.

In other words, a fish can withstand a higher temp of water for a short period of time than it can for an extended period of time.
If the question is "How high of a temp can a piranha survive longterm..."

I could gamble a guess...
My guess would be somewhere in the upper 90's, figuring that there was adequate circulation.

The higher the temperature of the water, the less oxygen is present in a given cubic unit.
Also, the fish's metabolism would escallate.
Therefore, there would have to be excessive circulation combined with added swimming space so that the water could adequately pass through the gills.
Furthermore, more/higher nutrition food would have to be available to cater to the elevated metabolism.


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## AmazonAddict

I heard of a guy who came home to a broken heater and his P tank was in the high 90's and the fish were fine. But that was only for a couple hours while he was at work, so I would have to say that would be short term.


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## 1rhom

What temp do you guys keep your tanks at? Is 86 too high to keep at all the time?


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## bigshawn

1rhom said:


> What temp do you guys keep your tanks at? Is 86 too high to keep at all the time?


I keep mine between 79-81


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