# What is this p?



## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

I changed the pictures, please relook at these and tell me what you think.

Look at all these pics in this album


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## Bcollins111900 (Feb 3, 2003)

looks like a spilo man, not a tern to me.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

http://www.piranha-fury.com/info/s_spilopleura.asp :sad:


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## phensway (Apr 7, 2003)

it doesnt look like a spilo to me............... sorta looks like a pygo........ but with red eyes???


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

Spilo IMO.

~Dj


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

This is the one you're referring to right?


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## phensway (Apr 7, 2003)

that looks like a spilo to me


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

No, the fish I am talking about is the one just to the right of the one you posted. The one you posted is (IMO) an S. maculatus


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Gold spilo IMHO.... You have one crazy shoal!


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

yeah, pair of breeding reds, s. maculatus, s. spilo (looks like), and one beat up caribe.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

You need to post clearer pics and be more specific what fish you are talking about. There is not wonder that almost all that replied thought you were questioning a different fish.

~Dj


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

If people look at pics two and three, there is only one fish in those pics, so no confusion.


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

i added differnt pictures to eliminate confusion. see firstpost.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)




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## Croz (Jan 29, 2003)

i am gonna have to go with spilo as well


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

wow man, is that the new Yellow Natt? I am on the fence on this one, 1 pic looks like my old natt, and then a different pic looks more like a spilo. 
How is the guy from Pedro fitting into your shoal?


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> 1 pic looks like my old natt, and then a different pic looks more like a spilo.


 Thats what I was thinking also. I almost thought they were two different fish. I cant even be certain enough to give an opinion. Hopefully you get this resolved soon.

Good luck,

~Dj


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)




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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm keeping a hands off this fish until I receive samples to examine. Sorry guys. The best way to determine an approximate ID on your fish is knowing the exact locality. Then you can eliminate species that do not fit the description.


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

Hey frank, if I checked for those scutes that you mentioned before were characteristic along the ventral edge of S. Spilo would that help decide it's identity? (at least rule it out from being a ternetzi?)


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> baitman Posted on Apr 22 2003, 05:12 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hey frank, if I checked for those scutes that you mentioned before were characteristic along the ventral edge of S. Spilo would that help decide it's identity? (at least rule it out from being a ternetzi?)


Depends if you know what exactly to look for. Serrae on Serrasalmus species are generally larger than Pygocentrus (post pelvic serrae).


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

Is there anything specific I could look for myself to at least say if it is a ternetzi or not? I'm more worried about ruling out it as a ternetzi than knowing if it is a spilo. Someone wants to buy it from me if it is a ternetzi, but if it isn't one they don't want it, so I'm trying to find out.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The only real visual to say for sure is opening its mouth and checking the palate region for ectopterygoid teeth and if it doesn't have any then it is likely a Pygocentrus. Of course, if the fish is a live you may get bit.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> The only real visual to say for sure is opening its mouth and checking the palate region for ectopterygoid teeth


 Watch your fingers!!! LoL

Just curious what are you trying to id this fish for? I mean, did you buy it as a tern and now think it might be spilo? Did you buy it as spilo and thin it might be tern? I can really see how it can be confusing. Again, the only thing that I can say is more pics. Side shots, not frontal. Perhaps then someone might be able to ID it.

~Dj


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

I bought it as a tern. I have someone who wants to buy it, but only if it is a tern. I'll try the teeth thing. If I get bit, at least it's a cool story......


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

I'm not sure what it is...maybe S. Spilopleura, still, i don't think is a Yellow Natt (Ternetzi)!


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

Good luck with checking out the teeth. Let us know how it goes.

~Dj


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

I've added many more pics. See link in first post.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

Man that one is still a stumper. Still kinda think spilo. However, even by looking at it I cannot come to a full 100% conclusion, so for me the jury is still out. Im no pro at specific anatomical specifacations for making 100% id's, but from all the pics that I have seen previous i am going to lean toward spilo.

However, there is a very good chance I am wrong, as I would not bet $5 that Im right. (thats pretty bad).

Good luck with the ID.

~Dj


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

IMO, I think it's just a strange colored tern. could be wrong, but that's what I'm going with since I can't find anything definate to say it's not.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I feel the same way, on a few pictures Im ready to say Tern....then I see another and am like, damn, just doesnt feel that way....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

palate teeth location if present.


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## baitman (Feb 20, 2003)

That's exactly where those teeth are in this fish! I though palatal teeth would be further back, but I've only worked on marine reptiles (extinct) not fish, so I guess I was way off. But there's one problem with that, my reds have teeth there too! What does that mean?? Should I check the reds again and the caribe and take pictures? Let me know.


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## dozerdogue (May 9, 2003)

I have the same exact looking P I bought 9 terns for my tank and one looks just like that. It looks like a unidentified brazillian P. Check out this site http://aquascapeonline.com/scripts/prodVie...sp?idProduct=93


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I have the fish here with me and have not finished work on it. Had many other distractions. So be patient.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> I have the fish here with me and have not finished work on it. Had many other distractions. So be patient.


 Frank, what fish do you have in front of you? The one from aquascape or the one originally posted in this thread?

~Dj


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> InSinUAsian Posted on May 14 2003, 08:11 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (hastatus @ May 14 2003, 12:00 AM)
> I have the fish here with me and have not finished work on it. Had many other distractions. So be patient.
> ...


 I am examing the fish that Aquascape first described as a Pygocentrus which appears like the one in the link. This fish I am looking at is from Fish Post and may not be the same fish. According to Pedro it is, but I cannot say for certainty since the fish was from Ron not Pedro. I do not have his (Ron's) permission to release that data should it be available in the next week or two. If he does give permission, I will share it with you all here. If not, then the topic is mute on that subject, unless someone else produces the same fish sample for examination and releases the findings for public reading. I never rush these things, but I want to be accurate in the figures and the fish is dissected to match up the known description that might fit that fish. This could simply be a well-known fish or something else. Don't know yet. So be patient.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

:nod:


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