# wet/dry vs canister



## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

I've never used wet/dry before but have heard that wet/dry is much better than canister, just curious why? is the turn over rate? the amount of bio media it can fit in it? (I know you can hide heater in wet/dry but I'm more interested in the filtration part)

let's say if there are two systems, one wet/dry and one canister. if they both have the same turn over rate and same amount of bio media, will wet/dry still do a better job than canister?

if there's anything I over looked, please point that out as well.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Short simple answer: different types of bacteria, a canister is mostly anaerobic (lower levels of O2, higher CO2) a wet dry is more aerobic (high 02 levels, low CO2)... you have aerobic and anaerobic bacteria in both, just different ratios.

So you could have the same media, turnover, etc... but because a wet/dry is open air, theres higher levels of beneficial bacteria.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

wet/dry is cheaper, virtually no maintenance, adds water volume to the system, allows both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria to colonize the media, and even tho you already know about hiding equipment, i think it's another advantage over a canister that is worth mentioning.

aegir beat me to the punch... big surprise there


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks. how about noise level of a wet/dry? and since the sump is open to air won't it loose water to evaporation fast?
if I use the add on type of over flow, how do I calculate the flow rate and select a proper return pump?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

a wet/dry is obviously a little noisier than an eheim, but i don't think it's that bad... the evaporation isn't much of an issue either, i find myself topping off my other tanks just as much as the one with a wet/dry.

if you buy an overflow box, they will say what the max flow rate is, so you can figure out what type of flow rate you want and then select a pump and compatible overflow box.


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

I have two FX5 running 180g with 11 pygos in it, what size tank would I need to make the sump?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

jp80911 said:


> I have two FX5 running 180g with 11 pygos in it, what size tank would I need to make the sump?


AS big as you can get in your stand... the bigger the better!


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

Ægir said:


> Depending on how its setup, it can be silent, or sound like Niagara falls. you will see some more evap, but evaporation is a great way to cool your tank!
> 
> If you use a HOB overflow box, they are rated for a max flow (600, 1200 gph etc) so your return pump needs to push less than that number. You also need a head loss chart for the pump, if you look at like the Mag drive pumps, you find your head (typically around 4', but measure from the bottom of your sump, to the top of your tank) loss, and then which model moves the desired amount of water at 4'.
> 
> if you want more info about overflow boxes, i can dig it up?


Thanks, it would be great if you can help dig up some overflow boxes info.
and how can I set it up to make it silent? I like how quite my FX5 are.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

jp80911 said:


> Depending on how its setup, it can be silent, or sound like Niagara falls. you will see some more evap, but evaporation is a great way to cool your tank!
> 
> If you use a HOB overflow box, they are rated for a max flow (600, 1200 gph etc) so your return pump needs to push less than that number. You also need a head loss chart for the pump, if you look at like the Mag drive pumps, you find your head (typically around 4', but measure from the bottom of your sump, to the top of your tank) loss, and then which model moves the desired amount of water at 4'.
> 
> if you want more info about overflow boxes, i can dig it up?


Thanks, it would be great if you can help dig up some overflow boxes info.
and how can I set it up to make it silent? I like how quite my FX5 are.
[/quote]

Ok, so the number one problem with HOB overflows is flooding your house if they arent setup properly. In a power outage, with no water circulation, the U tube needs to hold its siphon, allowing the box to return water to the sump when the pump and power turn back on. You should only have to "prime" the U tube one time. I ran this setup for years with no problems, around 1200gph through a 1" drain:


Sorry for the stuffy nose, i was sick when i made this years ago.










Most new overflow boxes, have a baffle on the inside to keep that water level up.. but the older ones require a standpipe

LOOK ON EBAY FOR USED OVERFLOW BOXES... i see them for 15$ all the time

If that U tube looses its prime, your display tank will just fill up and overflow onto the floor.

If you want plans for the standpipe, i have tons of pics as well...


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

Great info fellows keep it coming


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

that's always the argument i hear from people who think canisters are better... "it's not worth the risk of flooding my house for the small increase in filtration". if set up properly, you shouldn't have problems if the power goes out or when it comes back on. my wet/dry has seen a lot of power outtages from storms and i haven't had a single flood.


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

Ægir said:


> If you want plans for the standpipe, i have tons of pics as well...


Thanks for the info, yes, please keep the pics coming.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

joedizzlempls said:


> that's always the argument i hear from people who think canisters are better... "it's not worth the risk of flooding my house for the small increase in filtration". if set up properly, you shouldn't have problems if the power goes out or when it comes back on. my wet/dry has seen a lot of power outtages from storms and i haven't had a single flood.


Thats the reason I don't have one now, worried but I'm listening........


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

that's what I worried about too but I'm listening as well.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

when the power shuts off, the pump stops running which turns your return line from the pump into a syphon, draining water from the tank back into your sump, to prevent it from syphoning too much water back into your sump to make it spill over, you can put a hole in your return line just below the water line which would let in air and break the syphon if the water level drops or you can just position the outlet high enough so that it will suck in air and break syphon before the sump fills up.

the picture that aegir posted of the overflow with the standpipe will keep water in the U-tube to maintain a syphon even if the water stops flowing, so that protects your tank from flooding once the power comes back on

if you set it up like that so you are protected on both ends, your pump should shut down and power back up again without any issue


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

would this be a good overflow? http://cgi.ebay.ca/Quiet-Aquarium-Overflow...=item4147c88fb6


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

Sooo the hole in the return line should be in the sump right, how big a hole we talking?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

bigshawn said:


> Sooo the hole in the return line should be in the sump right, how big a hole we talking?


no, in the return line near the outlet in your tank, just below the water level, just a hole large enough to let in some air and break the syphon

i just have the outlet of the return line positioned a couple inches below the water line, it sucks in air when my wet/dry is about 3/4 full


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

joedizzlempls said:


> Sooo the hole in the return line should be in the sump right, how big a hole we talking?


no, in the return line near the outlet in your tank, just below the water level, just a hole large enough to let in some air and break the syphon
[/quote]

Ok, got you.....


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i was confused as hell before i got my first wet/dry and had almost no understanding of how they worked and how to set it up properly, but once it was delivered and i had started putting it together, it started to get clear. once i saw it running on my tank and saw what happened when i unplugged the pump, everything made sense.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

you bought one joe?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Heres a great illustration

Clicky

More pics in a sec

Ok, this standpipe is basically a mini-durso (google Durso standpipe to see the full size) so it can fit in the overflow box.

The standpipe, is a piece of 1" pvc with holes drilled in at the desired height... You can see that (1)small piece of pipe to connect spa flex (2) 1" FPT thread (3) is a 1" MPT thread. This is what goes through the bottom of the overflow box, the O rings are for a tight seal.









The "bell" (outer, white piece) is a 2" piece of PVC (4) with a reducer (5) and a 1.5' cap (7). 



























The bell part just hangs, so its about 1" off the bottom of the overflow box.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> you bought one joe?


yeah, i bought my first overflow and wet/dry years ago and i swear by them now... since then i've made a few and bought a couple more. the only one i am running right now is a setup that i purchased for my 75 gallon, the stands for my smaller tanks wouldn't accomodate a wet/dry.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

they are all like $250 online


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

you can make your own wet/dry for very little money


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> they are all like $250 online


Any old aquarium can be turned into a sump for cheap... find one on craigs list, find a used overflow box on ebay, and a return pump... easy to do for under 100$ on a large tank.

Even build a DIY drip tower to hold bio balls.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

im probly going to do a drip tower in a rubber maid bin


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> im probly going to do a drip tower in a rubber maid bin


those work well... so do five gallon buckets. i think seedless has pictures of the drip tower he made out of five gallon buckets from homedepot.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

the towers i was looking at had 3 drawers so i was thinking

Filter floss then fluval ceramic bio media then something else not sure yet


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> they are all like $250 online


The ones that cheap are generally junk for the money. They usually have like 1 baffle and aren't that big. Much better to buy an aquarium, glass and silicone. I got a 10g sump for my 15g reef made easily at a glass shop. Just make a design (should probably post it online to be criticized to make sure it works) then get it made.

A lot of people make them themselves too you just need glass or acrylic, silicone or acrylic cement some painters tape and maybe some egg crate for any wetdrys or media compartments. For a 180 you can get a good sized sump in there since its 24" wide. Id probably do at least a 75g but bigger is better. Something like a 100g with a huge wetdry would be nice. also remember for sumps a 100g sump doesn't hold 100g of water. It will probably only have 75g and even less if there are wetdrys in it.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> the towers i was looking at had 3 drawers so i was thinking
> 
> Filter floss then fluval ceramic bio media then something else not sure yet


just put your mech media in the top drawer with the drip tray and fill the bottom with bio balls or pot scrubbies


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Heres a 3 drawer one i made for a saltwater setup... same concept but instead of rubble you would use bio balls or lots of scrubbies. I just drilled TONS of 1/4" holes in the bottom of the drawers (i made a grid with tape and spaced them 1" apart) and cut a hole in the back for the drain line (couldnt go through the top cause of the rack)

It worked great, but there was lots of salt creep from the splashing


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

mine would be FW so i wouldnt have to worry about salt creep right?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> mine would be FW so i wouldnt have to worry about salt creep right?


right.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

^^^ Could you show me the hole we were talking about from the return line please?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> mine would be FW so i wouldnt have to worry about salt creep right?


No. If you evaporate a lot of fresh water you will get a tiny bit of left over minerals like a pinch, but this is nothing compared to a sw so its nothing significant. For sw 1g of water has half a cup of salt roughly. It would probably take thousands of gallons of fw to equal that much salt so in short since theres practically no salt in fw you don't need to worry, buy a wipe here and there is probably best for looks not function is best. Its like when you do a water change and drips on the glass leave mineral residue. Its insignificant


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## assclown (Dec 12, 2005)

thats funny, i just set my wet dry up on my 90 today....but i used a rubbermaid
and buckets instead of my expensive sump.....i made it so i could use a sump sock
so i didnt need to buy filter floss anymore........


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

the 3 drawer concept would be what I have in mind as well, simple and cheap, but I could imagine it'll be a bit noisy as well from all those splashing.
how does one set up a wet/dry so that it runs silent?



joedizzlempls said:


> Sooo the hole in the return line should be in the sump right, how big a hole we talking?


no, in the return line near the outlet in your tank, just below the water level, just a hole large enough to let in some air and break the syphon

i just have the outlet of the return line positioned a couple inches below the water line, it sucks in air when my wet/dry is about 3/4 full
[/quote]

Ok, I get the idea, so basically you want to prevent the return line from becoming an overflow when the pump is off.


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