# more betta stuff



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

Tink, or anyone really, does anyone know how to breed bettas or if its even worth trying? I noticed at walmart that they hade some 1.5 gal whisper tanks for $10 and was thinking about setting up a few to breed bettas in.

any advice would be great.


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

yeah, make sure the agression is outta the male before you put em together..unless you want somethin nasty to happen


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I know it can be done, but IMO, a tank that small is probably not close to optimal for breeding bettas unless you have a non-aggressive pair (and even then, it might be too small if they decide they're not the best of friends).


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

get a ten gallon, during breeding his bubble nest will take up half the 1.5gallon lol making it hard and dangerous to get the female out.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

how do i get them to start, or want to breed... my male just sits and doesnt do shiz except fight the wall or bubble wand


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Wrap a background around it and see if that doesn't cut down on the glare/reflection and then take away the bubble wand and see if that helps, I guess...


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## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

feed them beta food, bloodworms, and tubifex on a schedual and the females will get fat and the males will make a bubble nest... thats all i know


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

10 gallons is the minimum i'd suggest for breeding, because the tank you breed them is will become your fry nursery (and bettas can have on the upwards of 500+ fry in a very good spawn)

honestly i would not consider bettas 'worth' breeding unless they're really your thing and you are interested in producing quality bettas, not just crossing your two pets to see 'what happens'.

okay how to breed bettas.... lol i know this little paragraph by heart.

1) KEEP THEM SEPARATE UNTIL YOU WANT THEM TO BREED. bettas do not cohabitate in a tank. the male or female will stress the other out.

2) YOU WILL NEED: 
a hurricane lantern, OR a clear 2 liter soda bottle that has had its top and bottom cut off, and a weight to keep it at the bottom of the tank. 
10 g tank
heater
sponge filter (seeded if possible)
1/2 of a styrofoam cup, cut top to bottom
1 2" piece of scotch tape
BBS, daphnia, infusoria, etc. for starter foods (do not give BBS until the fry are at least 1/4")

3) fill the 10g tank about half way and put the sponge filter in, and the heater. CYCLE THE TANK.

4) attach the styrofoam cup to the waterline with the open side down, the cup lip to the wall of the tank. use the piece of scotch tape to hold it there.

5) place the hurricane lantern on the side opposite the cup.

6) place male in tank for 24-72 hours and let him get acclimated and ideally start building his bubble nest.

7) place female inside of the hurricane lantern and prepare to wait.... once she shows vertical 'tiger stripes' which are breeding colors, and holds her body at a 45* down angle, she is ready to breed. make sure the male is displaying to her as well (and if he hasn't built his nest yet, he should at this point). release the female.

8) WATCH YOUR FISH! the male or female may harass the other to the point of death. you have to be ready to intervene if something goes wrong.

9) as long as everything is going well, your fish should spawn. the male will wrap himself around the female and squeeze her, inseminating her eggs at the same time. he will then swim to the bottom and retrieve them (see why a half full tank is ideal?) and blow them into the bubble nest.

10) when its all said and done, the male will probably chase the female off of the nest and guard it. remove the female and put some melafix in her tank, she'll probably need it.

11) allow the male to care/guard his eggs until they hatch. it is okay to leave him in there until the fry reach the stage when they are freeswimming. at that point remove the male and prepare to become your fry's nanny.


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

Tinkerbelle said:


> 10 gallons is the minimum i'd suggest for breeding, because the tank you breed them is will become your fry nursery (and bettas can have on the upwards of 500+ fry in a very good spawn)
> 
> honestly i would not consider bettas 'worth' breeding unless they're really your thing and you are interested in producing quality bettas, not just crossing your two pets to see 'what happens'.
> 
> ...


You forgot the part about needing a million cups/jars/whatnots to keep the baby males


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Quantum_Theory said:


> You forgot the part about needing a million cups/jars/whatnots to keep the baby males


you're right, i did.

at 2-4 months the males will begin to get varying levels of agression. you will need to start removing them as or before they become bullies. you will need LOTS of 1/4-1 gallon jars for these guys to stay in. you will be doing 100% water changes on those size jars every 2-3 days in a never ending cycle. ideally you will cull for the best couple dozen so i suggest having a large cichlid or piranha on hand to deal with culls.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

I bred betta last year in a 20 gallon container pond. I t had anacharis, duckweed, water hyacinth, and a water lilly. I put in a female betta, and then a male in June, in september, I pulled out the male, and about 15 others, fed them to my JD. I never fed any of them, and only occasionally saw the male. Never saw the female again.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

could you post some pics... im kinda confused about the styrofoam cup thing, the "glass booth" for here to strut her stuf and get him in the mood is called a "hurricane lantern"? kinda like a peep show? i would love to learn more!


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

the hurricane lantern is what its commonly called.... if you've ever been to a wedding and they have like one candle in the middle of the table on a mirror with a glass tube around it.... THATS the hurricane lantern (the glass tube)

maddyfish, sounds like everone in your pond cannibalized unless it was outside and then most liekly they ate mosquito larvae. 10 to 1 says the male killed your female after copulation.

here are images of bettas using styrofoam cups as nest sites courtesy of bettatalk.com


















*note that you can see the hurricane lantern in the back of this one ^^^


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

maddyfish said:


> I bred betta last year in a 20 gallon container pond. I t had anacharis, duckweed, water hyacinth, and a water lilly. I put in a female betta, and then a male in June, in september, I pulled out the male, and about 15 others, fed them to my JD. I never fed any of them, and only occasionally saw the male. *Never saw the female again.*


I'm sure if you look inside your filter, you'd find a little surprise...

anyways, another piece of advice: DON'T USE THOSE DUMB BETTA BREEDER "THINGS"
man, not only are the labels of those things (that remind me of betta barracks which is also not that good of an idea) in a completely different language, they're so small!!


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Probably not. If it was last summer, I doubt there are even traces of the female around!


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

No filter


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

awesome.. i had a pretty good idea but, pictures can never hurt.... THANKS TINK


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Skunkbudfour20 said:


> awesome.. i had a pretty good idea but, pictures can never hurt.... THANKS TINK


welcome


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

wow u kno ALOT about bettas.

Did u study them in university or sum place like that?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

That's the beauty of the hobby--you don't have to take university classes in it b/c there's a lot of reading you can do on your own and a lot of experience you can get, too...eventually, there's a chance that you can know more than what's in books at that time!


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## prez10 (Dec 21, 2004)

lol...i tried breeding one time and my female kicked my males a$$...it was horrible...i had the female for a while..and she was pretty big..but she ended up dying from a eye infection...


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

prez10 said:


> That's the beauty of the hobby--you don't have to take university classes in it b/c there's a lot of reading you can do on your own and a lot of experience you can get, too...eventually, there's a chance that you can know more than what's in books at that time!


i 'mentored' under several highly knowledgeable betta breeders on another forum, and one local breeder in my area took me under his wing and taught me a LOT about the specifics of breeding and how to pick the best fish out of a spawn of 200+ fry that all look great!

everything else I picked up by asking tons of questions and just wanting to know all I could about the species so that I could be the absolute best fish keeper I could be. also, a lot of it was trial and error.... but mostly when i followed people who knew what they were doing's advice, it came out great.


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

and now she's a mentor









BTW, speakin of mentor, my betta flares everytime he's about to eat a blood worm (but not at hikari pellets). Any clue why?

In specific, he flares at hte food and then eats it.


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Quantum_Theory said:


> and now she's a mentor
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's being aggressive towards it. Are the bloodworms live? It may be due to their color as well....

Bettas sometimes flare for no reason at all, or really weird ones. During Christmas the one year I placed cards i had recieved behind the fish's tanks for decorations (to show through). I still to this day have no idea WHY but my one male went CRAZY over a picture of a christmas tree with blue ornaments on it. i got a card nearly identical to it with RED ornaments on it... i decided to try to see if he'd react the same way to the red ornaments and he absolutely ignored them... Bettas are really odd little fish.


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## kigrind (Sep 28, 2006)

I moved the male into the breeding tank and put the female in his 5 gallon hex right up againts the breeding tank and let it be for a few weeks. They can still see each other. After the bubble nest got to a size that ment he was actually working on one, I put her in a cut bottle in the tank for 3 days then let her go.

I also had a large clump of java fern and changed 3-5 cups of water out every day with fresh up untill the bubble nest was created. It seemed to help make the male more active. Usually dosnt do much or just stressed out in my exp.

Strange fish.


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## kigrind (Sep 28, 2006)

And I never got past the fry stage and only got them to breed once, so I'm of no help nor do I have the exp to give out how to on my exsperence.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

crap man there is absolutely no lfs in my area that takes care of their bettas.

They either sell them in plastic cups with holes on the top or styrafoam ones.


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

KiGrind said:


> And I never got past the fry stage and only got them to breed once, so I'm of no help nor do I have the exp to give out how to on my exsperence.


I managed to raise a spawn to the half inch size or so... i forget exactly how big. FABULOUS spawn with great colors already showing at a young age, when the heater i had in the tank cracked after a power outtage and electrocuted them all. I have however helped out in a large scale show breeder's fish room and know the drills.

How far did you get? Free swimming?


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

they are freeze dried blood worms btw

anyways, it is generally known (for some reason) that the fry can be the hardest stage to take care of. I forget where, but theres a site which tells you how to get past the fry stage. Type betta in google and check the first three pages of searches (yess all of em) THeres a really good article on em.


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Quantum_Theory said:


> they are freeze dried blood worms btw
> 
> anyways, it is generally known (for some reason) that the fry can be the hardest stage to take care of. I forget where, but theres a site which tells you how to get past the fry stage. Type betta in google and check the first three pages of searches (yess all of em) THeres a really good article on em.


fry require a lot of care, pristine water conditions, and there can be a LOT of issues with food.

many people suggest that feeding baby brine shrimp too early causes 'belly sliders' and can hinder ventrals from forming. vinegar eels, baby daphnia, and infusoria (green water) are the betta breeders foods of choice, until they are at least like 1/4 long, THEN you can introduce the BBS.


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

but not too much bbs because it has been known to cause problems with the labyrinth organ


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

i had a breeder from the ibc teach me alot about bettas and he gave me some awsome starters i breed them a few times but i couldnt figure a good way to do water changes on the baby bettas tanks so they died at bout 1/4 inch i used the food for eglayers real fine powder but he said u could also take an egg yolk and put it in a cloth and kinda swish it around in the tank for a bit for food

also he bred them in 10 gals then moved the babys into cardboard boxes line with trashbags he use to use 2.5s for growouts but relized he could have saved a bunch of money by starting with the boxes

i also belive he was runner up for breeder of the year on ibc

remember its all about finnage


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## kigrind (Sep 28, 2006)

Tinkerbelle said:


> How far did you get? Free swimming?


Really not sure. I had to made plans to go on vacation, they didn't spawn untill the week before we had to go. The eggs had just hatched and the male was tending to them, still blowing into the nest. I did have a clump of java fern in it and was really praying enough critters had grown out of the plants that I would see fish when I got home.

Come home and the male was dead on the bottom covered in some white stuff, no bubble nest and just cloudy water. Most of the fern lived. Guess it had plenty to eat.









Didnt try after that, had too many mollies. I want to do convicts now.


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

ask me about convicts, I have experience with those..breeding and non-breeding


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

KiGrind said:


> i had a breeder from the ibc teach me alot about bettas and he gave me some awsome starters i breed them a few times but i couldnt figure a good way to do water changes on the baby bettas tanks so they died at bout 1/4 inch i used the food for eglayers real fine powder but he said u could also take an egg yolk and put it in a cloth and kinda swish it around in the tank for a bit for food
> 
> also he bred them in 10 gals then moved the babys into cardboard boxes line with trashbags he use to use 2.5s for growouts but relized he could have saved a bunch of money by starting with the boxes
> 
> ...


it really is all about the finnage. i had fry that were looking like they'd have HUGE caudals.... definately an improvement in a generation.

the box idea is good, unless you spring a leak and then you're screwed. Phil, the guy I learned from, used to use 10gs but now he uses 20Ls just so they have growout space and he doesn't have to transfer them.

for water changes you can do it one of two ways. 1) get a cup and manually scoop water out. check each and every cupful (in a clear glass) for fry before disposing of. If there is a fry in there, use a small vessel, such as a 1/4 c dry goods scoop to chase it down and remove it from the cup. time consuming but you gotta do, what you gotta do. you can also siphon the water into a clear bucket or a white bucket if you are good at spotting fry, then use the same removal method for any that get through.

starter fry powders work well, but the egg yolk is MESSY and really screws with water quality. I consider that a last resort. the easiest way to dispense the egg yolk is to take a boiled egg, remove the yolk, mash up a TINY bit in your fingers, and then swirl your finger through the water in the tank.


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

> starter fry powders work well, but the egg yolk is MESSY and really screws with water quality. I consider that a last resort. the easiest way to dispense the egg yolk is to take a boiled egg, remove the yolk, mash up a TINY bit in your fingers, and then swirl your finger through the water in the tank.


thats what i meant i just dont explain myself well did the guy who mentored you deal with ibc


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## kigrind (Sep 28, 2006)

Tinkerbelle said:


> sounds like the tank wasn't cycled. sorry


I used 4 gallons of bottled water (in jugs) and a spong filter, IMO sponge filters are useless in such shallow water.


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Malok said:


> sounds like the tank wasn't cycled. sorry


I used 4 gallons of bottled water (in jugs) and a spong filter, IMO sponge filters are useless in such shallow water.
[/quote]

bottled water doesn't mean cycled. the purpose of the sponge filter is that you gradually fill the tank to capacity once the male is removed and the fry are free swimming.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

HOLY sh*t! I didnt know they made that many awards!


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

gar~spaz said:


> HOLY sh*t! I didnt know they made that many awards!


Phil has been into Bettas for 40 years now I think? I haven't talked to the guy in like 2-3 years... He was really nice though and considerate of the fact I was freaking CLUELESS when I started out.


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## flaredevil4 (Sep 9, 2006)

we're all clueless at some point or another. WE just have two options from the beginning:

get our feet wet and then slowly walk in

or

(the way I got into fish) Jumping head first without any worries and considering it a learning experience


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