# who has proof that beef heart shortens P's lifespan?



## BOSSRHOM (Jul 4, 2008)

would adding beefheart 2x a week be too much?


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## BOSSRHOM (Jul 4, 2008)

anybody?


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

I don't have proof of anything except that i ONLY fed my Spilo beef heart about 7 years ago b/c I knew no better.
He never had any issues that were visible.
I don't use it now though...


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

well,

I dont really like your question.....
As for ur answer, Find a source where it gives you the nutrisonal value of food.
then compair to something "healthy"

I would do it for you, but I dont like your question..
I dont know why... but i just dont..:S








any1 else feel this way.. or am i pmsing.


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## NTcaribe (Apr 8, 2004)

well put it this way...how many cows do you know of that live in the water?......now think about how many times in the wild would a piranha have a chance to munch on cow heart?....not much

im not saying its going to kill your p but too much will probably make it sick to the point that it does die....if you insist on feeding it beef heart only feed once a week. fish is the best food for your fish


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## BOSSRHOM (Jul 4, 2008)

shiver905 said:


> well,
> 
> I dont really like your question.....
> As for ur answer, Find a source where it gives you the nutrisonal value of food.
> ...


no its just you! now go be a dick somewhere else!


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## BOSSRHOM (Jul 4, 2008)

NTcaribe said:


> well put it this way...how many cows do you know of that live in the water?......now think about how many times in the wild would a piranha have a chance to munch on cow heart?....not much
> 
> im not saying its going to kill your p but too much will probably make it sick to the point that it does die....if you insist on feeding it beef heart only feed once a week. fish is the best food for your fish


i just wanted to know where it came from, and who made beef heart an issue? not saying that anybodys wrong or lying im just curious to why its bad for your P's! but your right, in the wild piranhas dont eat beef heart they eat other fish and still get big, i just want to try an experiment for 2 inches


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

I was always under the impression that beef heart was fatty and it should only be fed as a treat.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

NTcaribe said:


> I was always under the impression that beef heart was fatty and it should only be fed as a treat.


this is what i have also heard
and it also is quite a messy food. harder to maintain water quality.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

This is the best article I have read on feeding captive bred piranhas. It is a post by Brian Scott and is in the saved topics of this forum.

During recent weeks, there has been considerable question regarding the proper diet and feeding of captive piranhas. So I wrote a little essay about it. What follows is a brief overview of what you, the hobbyist, need to know, and understand, in order to provide a happy and healthy captive environment for your piranhas.

*INTRO*
Piranhas are for the most part, carnivores. That is, they consume flesh from other animals in order to fulfill their dietary requirements. In nature, piranhas feed mainly on whole fish and fish parts. What is valuable to understand most can be broken down into two main points: *First*, just because a fish is a carnivore, does not mean that it's a predator. Without trying to cause mass confusion, please let's clarify that in this case (with piranhas), they are predatory in nature. But how predatory? *Second*, piranhas eat far more fish flesh than any other type of food. Why? Well it is safe to say that there are far more fish to be eaten than cattle, capybara, storks, or even ducks. Piranhas are fish, they live among many hundreds of millions of other fishes, and they eat fishes.

*HOW PREDATORY ARE PIRANHAS*
Certainly we all have watched the poor mouse swimming frantically across the top of the water only to get ravaged by Satan's goldfish several times on videos and/or in sequence pictures posted here and other places among the WWW, but seriously, does mammalian flesh make up a considerable portion of wild piranhas diets? No, it does not. Neither does the flesh of birds, amphibians, nor reptiles make up a considerable amount of any species of piranhas regular diet. Now in extreme circumstances such as a drying lagoon in the peak of the dry season in the Llanos of Venezuela, maybe. I think it not too wise to consider home aquariums an extreme circumstance however.

Piranhas are better scavengers than they are pursuers. For this reason, a sub-grouping is in order for them. While piranhas are no doubt predatory in nature, they are also well adept at scavenging and therefore are referred to herein as opportunistic predatory scavengers (OPCs). OPCs are known for their uncanny ability to hunt down the weak, dead, or dying animals in their elements. With great sense of taste, good eyesight, and a remarkable ability to detect nervous, abnormal motion in their environment, certainly, piranhas are very well suited for such a task.

Very rarely will normal, healthy piranhas hunt down normal, healthy food. This is so in aquaria due to the confined space, however, in nature, the flow of energy (energy dynamics) is much more important to their survival and this topic is way out of the scope of this mini-article. More another time on this issue.

*CAPTIVE DIET OF PIRANHAS*
That said; the diet of captive piranhas should consist of at least 95% whole fishes or parts of fishes. These can be varied but some species are more nutritious than others. For example, some good choices to feed your piranhas regularly are those that have what is called "white" flesh. These include but are not limited to: catfish, sea bass, striper, flounder, scrod, blackfish (tautog), halibut, and _Tilapia_. These fishes are bland but nutrient packed and offer a near complete diet with the only exception being the lipids and fatty acids that are found in organ meat.

Then we have "pink" fleshed fishes such as: Salmon, trout, sea trout, and orange roughy. Those species that have "pink" flesh are usually fine to feed piranhas in captivity provided that they are fed fresh, very fresh, as the oils that are contained in these fishes are heavy and can cause considerable pollution in your aquariums. The feeding of these fishes to your piranhas should be limited or avoided all together if you cannot clean up after their meal. These meats will definitely cause an oil slick on the surface of your tank's water so be cautioned.

Finally we have "red" fleshed fishes. These include: Mako, swordfish, marlin, tuna, and all other sharks and billfishes. These meats can be extraordinarily messy to feed and they often release high levels of blood and other juices into the aquarium. The tanks often stink within hours of feeding such foods and they are best avoided all together.

*WHY NOT MAMMALIAN RED MEATS OR POULTRY?*
*Aside from not being a natural food source, mammalian red meats are often high in hormones and fats. These will cause undesirable weight gain and retention in captive piranhas to the point of obesity and ultimately a premature death. They often have very high pollution associated with their use should a hobbyist not remove uneaten foodstuffs after feeding. All in all, stay away from these meats except for a rare treat. For these reasons, red meats and poultry should only make up 2-3% of the piranhas diet in captivity.*

*ORGAN MEATS*
*The same can be said about organ meats as has been said of red meats and poultry. Captive piranhas will get all of their dietary requirements that organs provide through the regular feedings of live/frozen/fresh-killed whole fishes. Foods such as beef heart, lung, liver, and intestine should NOT be a part of piranha's regular diets in captivity.*

*HOW MUCH? HOW OFTEN?*
As a general rule of thumb, smaller piranhas need to feed more frequently than larger ones do respectively. There exists no magical chart, table, or graph that depicts such a feeding schedule and don't be fooled into believing there is (by anyone). This is something that you will have to formulate on your own. It is strictly trial and error. If you feed you 5" cariba six times a week and they look as if they are ready to pop after each feeding then you are probably feeding too much, but maybe not. There are variables that come into play.

The only generally safe statement to be made here is that when feeding your piranhas, feed to satiation, that is, round out their bellies. Do *NOT* make them teeter-totter on the bottom of their aquarium and do not feed them until they start to vomit. When you notice a slight rounding out of the belly then stop. They have had enough, usually.

*VARIABLES IN FEEDING*
Just as in humans, normally more active piranhas require more food than do conspecifics that are less active. If you have two identical aquariums, both with six 10" piranhas each and the only difference being that one had a flow rate (filter's turnover rate included) of 1000 GPH whereas the other had a flow rate of 2000 GPH. It would be true to say that the piranhas in the aquarium with the higher flow rate would require more food than those in the other aquarium. Why? Because of energy usage and energy dynamics.

Another variable in feeding your piranhas is water temperature. Since piranhas are cold-blooded, that is, they have no thermal regulatory device for maintaining internal temperature, they are directly influenced by their thermal metabolism and how it processes foods. The higher the temperature is, (to a point) the faster the metabolism. The colder the temperature is, the slower the metabolism.

*WHAT IF MY PIRANHA IS OVER WEIGHT?*
If you are, or have been, over feeding your piranhas then stop feeding them so much and so often. Small, frequent feedings are better than large, sporadic feedings. Piranhas fall somewhere in between that statement and it is up to you to figure out their optimum balance. Another good thing to do is to increase (slowly if possible) the water flow as to provide exercise to your piranhas. This increased water flow will force them to use more energy and shed some pounds (or ounces) off their bodies. If your tank is heavily planted or decorated then you may need to open it up a bit so the fish are forced into the open. The end results will prove to be healthier, happier piranhas and happier, more educated hobbyists.

*Happy piranha keeping!!!!*










**This essay was prepared by *Brian M. Scott, TFH Publications Inc.* exclusively for Piranha-Fury.com***


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

My question would be why even make a thread when there are such better foods to feed your P's. Wanna feed them something great, try some pellets.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

its fine as a treat, not the main diet. I would say liek once a month at most.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

also, no deed to ask "anybody" only 20 minutes after posting. I can see mayby if its an injury, but this topic isnt going to make a difference if you dont get a reply right away.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

BOSSRHOM said:


> would adding beefheart 2x a week be too much?


Fish contain ENOUGH protein as is.
If you keep Feeding them Beef heart They will get BIG and FAT and develop
problems , Beef contains alot of Protein.

Thus making Your FIsh lazy and out of shape and shorten its life.


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## BOSSRHOM (Jul 4, 2008)

yeh i will not be adding ANY to my P's diet, thanx!


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

shiver905 said:


> well,
> 
> I dont really like your question.....
> As for ur answer, Find a source where it gives you the nutrisonal value of food.
> ...


wtf? you believe this guy? after all the post he made about need help or advice in setting up his tank he's got the balls to say this? its not helpful. why even bother saying anything. BOSSRHOM has been a member longer than you i think he probably knows about "healthy" food. who cares if you don't want to answer? you didn't know how to set up your FX5 until people here told you how? and i like your june 5th post in your tank thread about you don't need to "cycle" since your water is clean. and those fish you put in died! haha you are redic. get a clue. the reason you didn't answer this post is bc you don't know. so plz be more understanding that this is a discussion. obv there are better options out there than beefheart but why are you "PMSing" about it? i mean you didnt know about the cycle, how to set up your FX5, or how to use your test kit. i mean give me a break two of those have directions. the FX5 you bought used so you can get the .pdf version of the manual online if it didn't come with it. the test kit has directions too good thing you were smart enough to figure them out only after you took your want to the LFS to test. i mean give me a break and get a clue!


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

^^^^^Dude stop pming me. Get a "CLUE" that i dont like you.

Either way.
Abt the beef heart.
ANy red meat has a high fat value, right?
SO wouldnt beef heart be the same?

I guess i was pmsin


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

shiver905 said:


> ^^^^^Dude stop pming me. Get a "CLUE" that i dont like you.
> 
> Either way.
> Abt the beef heart.
> ...


It's simple-

Block him then-

Just saying-


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

shiver905 said:


> ^^^^^Dude stop pming me. Get a "CLUE" that i dont like you.
> 
> Either way.
> Abt the beef heart.
> ...


just take it like a man already. ya got told off. deal with it.

i dont care if you like me. i didn't like your post i thought it was rude and unnecessary. see the reason that this site is so great is bc there are ppl like GG that actually provide sound advice with evidence to back it up. that is why people creat threads to learn and have thier question answered. not to have people make posts like yours tryin to belittle or flame them. and way to prove your vast knowledge of the topic was after the fact. its just not necessary.


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## Pit_man (Sep 13, 2008)

shiver905 said:


> well,
> 
> I dont really like your question.....
> As for ur answer, Find a source where it gives you the nutrisonal value of food.
> ...


I wanted this smart ass post in my last one, it didnt take for some reason


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## brianhellno (Jun 16, 2008)

Very informative article by Brian Scott. I was always told not to feed anything other than white meats but I never really understood why. I just figured its best to duplicate what they would eat in their environment. Thanks for the information.


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## BOSSRHOM (Jul 4, 2008)

Pit_man said:


> well,
> 
> I dont really like your question.....
> As for ur answer, Find a source where it gives you the nutrisonal value of food.
> ...


I wanted this smart ass post in my last one, it didnt take for some reason
[/quote]

LoL thanx guys! mods lock this thread i got all the info i needed and will NOT be using beef heart due to it being unhealthy for my precious P's! thanx for all the info guys!


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Locked
By OP request


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