# saltwater nano



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

what do i need for a 5 gal nano with fish mayby inverts and some corals if there easy

i have a tank and canoipy (incadessent of floresent fixture but could probably get a better SW bulb)

i have no sw(have test kit that does sw too so) so i need everything new

tank,
cover
lights
live sand
live rock (about 5-7 lbs im thinking?)
hydrometer
heater
filter (can penguin do SW too?)
no protein skimmer

anything else?

i want to start with a 5 gal nano but if i stick to SW i will upgrade to a 10 gallon then probably eventually to a 55 or somethign bigger

what could i do in the 5.5?
could i do some (1-3) baby clown fish? and mayby a shrimp/snails/crabs

i like those octopus looking things (i think they are star fish) and regular starfish so what is needed for them?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Penguin filter will do SW. Depends on what type of starfish, some will need an established tank to feed off detritus and algae. Others will hunt for fish and crab and will grow to 12". Same goes for crabs as some will go after your fish. I'd stay away from them and get small hermit crabs instead.

Clowns, gobies and blennies will do nicely in your 5g. You can also add low lighting corals to color up your tank. Make sure you cycle your tank before adding any livestock.

A small powerhead to circulate your water might be something to consider also.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i was thinking mayby 2 clowns and then a couple shrimp/cleanup crew

i aslo heard inverts need special lighting or something?

what could i keep with 2 clowns for cleanup that dont need special needs?
also what is needed for anemonies?

how do starfish hunt for fish? i though they ate algea on the glass and stuff?

and i think i did mean hermit crabs not crab crabs

ok so htis is what im thinking

5.5 with inc or floro hood
penguin fliter
visitherm heater
a 10lbs bag or live sand (probably wont use it all)
7 lbs of LR
anemonies/ coral if any that can live under floros or incads 
cleanup crew (snails,hermits, and mayby a shrimp or two)
(what would be a good number of each to have for a clean tank and enough food for them too?)

you said low light corals does that mean under floros right?
and how long should i cycle? same as fw?
its been cycling for about a week (no salt and plan to get the equip on the weekend so after everyting is added how long should i wait ?

also do you have any pics of "low light corals" and what there called?

would somethign like a floro desk lamp be a good light for them?

and would a penguin 150B be to powerful (or act as a powerhead and make good current?)(150gph and up to 30 gal)- may want to upgrade and expand to a 20 and would like not to be buying a new filter

...


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## rbp 4 135 (Mar 2, 2004)

you will have a complete re-cycle when you add the salt, the live rock depending on how aged it is will dramatically cut down on the cycle time, you may not even have a cycle, not common but it occasionaly happens depending on how your lfs stores the lr. i would do sexy shrimp if you want more than one, and i would only do one clown fish, and it would be a percula. no nems for that lighting besides they pretty much all get to big for that tank anyway, i would recomed softies, zoos, mabey some really low light demanding lps. I would buy a small t-5 fixture instead of a hood with incandesent as that would not allow you to keep any corals, except gogornians and others not dependant on light. T-5 on the other hand would allow you to grow almost any thing your heart desired outside of nems and acros. My buddy has a 5 aga with 32 watts of of t-5 2 10-k and one actinic he is keeping zoos, a small leather, coupple of shrooms and two young monti caps. their growth is slow but they are collored up nicely.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

the LR will be dried/out of water when i get it

whould 2 clowns (1inch) and a couple hemits be ok?
if i like sw i will most likly tear down the 5.5 then start a larger 20-55 for the clowns and gett a couple more fish


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

I wouldn't put clowns in 5.5g tank. That size tank is way to small for clown fish. I would just do a small blenny and a shrimp.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

could i get 2 small 1 inch or smaller clowns for it then upgrade to a 20 when they grow a bit of sell them and go back to fw if i dont want to continue?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

I would just start with the 20g. trust me you won't go back. the cost difference won't be that much different.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

my plan is (since i got a 5.5 free) to get a heater and filter (i did get that with it but it was a box filter and a probably 15 year old heater) that would be good also for the 20 gal 
and then about 7lbs of LR and a 10lbs bag or sand (along with hydrometer, salt...)
then if i stay with saly i will buy a 2 gal tank and cover (and get coralife lighting or something good so i can get corals) then use the same filter and heater and just buy another 10lbs bag of sand and more LR then mayby 3-4 chromises (not to fancy but for some reason i find them cool)


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

5.5g nano will be fine for couple of 1" clowns. I had 2 in a 3g pico. Stay with gobies or blennies. 3-4 chromises are too many for your tank. There're different kinds of starfish. Some will hunt for fish and inverts. Stay away from the kinds that have long skinny tentacles.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i ment that mayby add a couple chromises after i buy a 20 (probably a long)
is that still to many (2-4) to have loong with 2-3 clowns (mayby buy another if theres space)

also what is required to keep inverts?
and what is required to keep snails or hermits?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

being this is his first time doing a sw setup I would not suggest two fish in a 5g tank. I don't think any sw fish should be kept in a 5g tank period. I would just put a single shrimp in it and be done. It would be much easer to for you. small amounts of water are harder to maintain. if it works and you upgrade then you will buy new equipment and spending twice as much money. You should just go and buy the 20g tank now. it will save you money in the long run. then you can keep 2 clowns, and some other small fish.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i mean buy all the quip now for the 5 then upgrade it to a 20 later then ill just need more lr and sand sincei would use the same heater and filter


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

you would need different lights, and that is usually what costs the most.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i have crappy floros or incads on the 5.5 but if i upgrade i would buy some coralife of something good


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

in the over all grand scheme of things I think it would be better to slowly peice together a good 20g system, and get a good sw book. Whatever you deicide I suggest you go slow. Nothing good happens fast in sw. goodluck.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

like said i want to take it slow by starting with fish only and acouple hemits andsnails then after i upgrade get some shrimp, more hermits, mayby some starfish then some coralife lighting then some corals

for a 20 gal long (30x12x12) with a 2ft coralife light with two 65 w bulbs (one 10000k the other true atlantic blue)
what types of corals could i get along with inverts?
and whats the recomended light cycle for sw 10hrs?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Go with your plan, you'll be fine.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i just realized i have a 10 gal Fw that i could move its inhabitants to the 5.5 and use the 10 for fw so i am using it now

today i removed everything from the 10 and moved the fish to the 5.5
i also bought a new filter (ac 30) in it i am running 1 mechanical media pack and 2 biological
and i bought 15 lbs (using it all) or caribreef argonite sand

so now i have a 10 gal with glass lid, live sand and filter (i also have a desk lamp i will use for lighting but thats only for viewing not on throughout the day)

i still need to get-
salt
hydrometer
LR (13 lbs?)
and heater

also what is the cycling process for sw before a tank is ready? (live sand and rock will be bought new (lr from old tanks around my area is 10$ a lbs) so it will be dried out and have no bacteria atm

what are stockign options with the 10 gal?
im still thinking 2 clowns (pertty much would like 2 clowns) and some hemits and snails
would i also be able to keep a small species of goby in there too? what species?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

this will be a much better start. I would go ahead and get the 10lbs of dry lr(base rock), and then get a couple lbs. of of real liverock. after you add the baserock and liverock to the tank the tank will start its cycle. Its just like a fw cycle. just wait for ammonia and nitrite to disappear. then nitrate to stablize. once that happens you could your two clowns. then wait two weeks and add a clown goby or something along those lines. for corals I would look at zoas, and mushrooms to start. goodluck. go SLOW. nothing good happens fast.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i was also thinking of doing a black background (paint) so what types are good that can be removable? or are they all just permanet things like spray paint?

or should i just ad a black bought background?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i just though about this but when doing water top ups (due to evaporation) do you refill with FW? since the salt would be still in the remaining water or on the rim still?


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## Apott05 (Jul 19, 2005)

thats correct. The only time you really need to add salt is when you physically remove water. Salt does not evaporate along with the water.


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

i myself have been wondering about clowns... how big do thay grow at a max...?are thay guppy sized fish? well thay breed in a home tank?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

when i add fw to the sw does it matter that the ph of my tap water (6.8-7) is lower then the sw would be (8.2) or would the sand and LR bring it up to 8.2 too?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

cueball said:


> i was also thinking of doing a black background (paint) so what types are good that can be removable? or are they all just permanet things like spray paint?
> 
> or should i just ad a black bought background?


Use a blue background. It's more natural.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

thanks

also do clowns breed (if conditions are met) or are they like piranhas and will breed more by luck then conditions?

also i heard that clowns are all male ( or theo ther way around) and the alfa male will turn to a female (and grow larger) to mate

is this true?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

All clowns are born male. the largest male becomes female. the 2nd largest becomes the female's partner. all of the rest will stay male until the female dies. Clowns do reproduce in home aquaria but the fry are extremely sensative to change. depending on the spieces of clown they range from 3"-6" in size. your pair might not breed. I have had a pair for over year that has bred. There many things you can do to try to induce the clowns to breed. there are several books and articles that you can find online if you search. Some spieces of clown can be really aggressive (maroon, and clarkii for example) so becareful what you choose. and do some reading.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

well on friday or over the weekend i plan to go and buy the following

1 bag instant ocean salt
1 coralife hydromer
approx 10lbs of base rock (may get a lbs or so of lr from an existing tank (is it called un-cured?)
50-100 watt visitherm heater

then i will start it cycling

a couple more?

1) for adding sand is thre a general rule how much to add (then go to the precise amount using a hydrometer) or just add a tiny bit at a time till its at the right level?

2) how long after adding fish should i wait till i add a cleanup crew? (hermits and mayby a shrimp)

3)whats some foods you feed your clowns? (im thinking mainly doing frozen thing like brine shrimp)

also if i only have 2 clowns will one definitly change to female or would the setup have to be right?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

Question 1: for istant ocean salt mix. it is a 1/2cup per gallon of water, I think. It will be on the bag. That will get you close to 1.025, then add either salt or water tge what you are looking for.
Question 2: After the tank cycles you will want to add the clean up crew. then maybe two weeks later add the 2 clowns.
Question 3: I feed frozen mysis shrimp, frozen brine shrimp, NLS thera+A, NLS marine fish formula, marine flakes, Ocean Nutrition 1 and 2.

yes one will turn female. what kind of clowns are you going to get? It will really help if you buy one that is significantly larger than the other.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i was planning percula clownfish

so i add cleanup crew before fish?
i was thinkign add fish and let waste and algea grow then add them so they have something to clean
so then i just add them and they eat algea or do i put food in for them?

also would a small floro fixture (probably a perfecto-20") be able to keep any anemonies
i dont really care about hard corals i was thinking more along the lines or anemonites featherdusters, mushrooms and dragon eyes (those bright green circles that cover rock- i think its something like that)


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

no you you need at least power compacts to keep an anemone. the clean up crew will eat algea and left over food. most people suggest waiting atleast 6 months before you would consider addin an anemone. I really wouldn't suggest keeping an anemone in a 10g tank.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

thanks

i will probably be going to big also n the weekend so i will pot what i buy


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

well today i went to big als and a bought the following: 
100 wat heater (stealth visitherm)
about 11 lbs or base rock (i will still be getting a couple pounds of rock from existing tank)
coralife hydrometer
and instant ocean salt

after multiple arrangements or LR i realized that it was alot harder to aquascape then FW since you have to make it sturdy, look good, give space, dont make many dead spots, give places for fish to swim through, rocks are solid so you cant really adjust its shape and to try to fit 11 lbs of LR into a 10 while still giving lots of space


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

yea aquascaping can be a real pain.It can take hours and hours to get what you like. then you will most likely always be moving a frag or rock or something in tank. get used to your hands being wet.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

for water change i know use a mixing bucket but should i mix it the day before i do the water change in order to dissipate all the chlorine?

and for cleanup crew i was thinking 10 blue leg hermits and 2 turbo snails

(tank inhabs are 2 p clowns and goby/bleeny) would there be any probs, should i get a larger/ smaller cleanup crew?

also how much should hermits or terbo snails cost (im in canada so i know it will probably be about 1.5x+ more)

i got an arrange ment thats ok so i will keep it for a bit untill i get some more established LR then i will start the Rock work again


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

also is it ok to make about 5 gals of saltwater at a time and use it over a month or so? and just store it in a a 5 gal pail with a lid


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

also i read not to use mech filtration (kinda knew this) because it becomes a nitrate factory fast but i dont really have any corals to eat debris

will LR bacteria eat it along with the cleanup crew?

also what would be some good medai for an AC (picked it becasue it can be versitile)
i currently have 2 bio media AC packs in it (3 packs worth of stuff since i bought 2 and 1 came with it so i added 1/2 of it to each)

would just adding LR in it work? or better SW media?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

just adding lr will be good for the ac. Have you looked into making it a refuge? If you keep the sw in sealed container that is food safe. then storing it won't be a problem.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

i have though about that but would i need a light over the filter or could the bacteria be fine without it?

also is there any chem media for sw orm mostliy just natural bio and mech filtratin and filter providing current


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

people do run carbo from time to time. in a refuge you try to grow macro algea (plants) to remove nitrates and phosphates, so light woul be needed.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

what type of light could i use? its only a ac30

would it be ok if i grew plants in the actual tank (would the fish shred them?)and just had normal bio media in the filter?

also are ther any types of PC desk lights i could use for the tank (just to keepsofties mayby hard corals if possible)?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

another thing how do you accumulate sw fish (moslty how much of a difference of salt content can their be without causeing shock)


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

well today i was at a lfs and got 2 about 1.5cm Percula clowns some LR and 4 blue leg hermits
i also got dried seaweed and frozen brineshrimp

if you hatch brine shrimp then put them in the sw tank will they breed? or anyway to keep them in a tank to breed?


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

well chaeto the most popular macroalgae can grow fine in your tank and its not palatabble to most fish...but its just ugly IMO. A cheap little desktop light wired to your fuge will grow it absolutely fine! Acclimating SW fish is MUCH MUCH MUCH more important than for freshwater. I'd suggest an hour MINIMUM drip acclimating any new fish to your water. If you want to be even safer go for an even longer drip period! If you dont acclimate them long enough they will go into shock and may never recover (learned this one from experience)

And no, dont expect the brine shrimp to breed. I'd stick to the frozen kind as hatching them can be a pain.


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