# Ternetzi



## Mack (Oct 31, 2004)

I'm *not* hoping for my piranhas to breed or anything, they're way too small and they might both be the same gender, who knows, anyways, I was wondering about breeding ternetzi nattereris.

1. Has anyone ever got 2 ternetzis to breed in captivity? Were the babies also "ternetzis?" (Did they have the yellow belly?)

2. Has anyone ever got a ternetzi nattereri and a red nattereri to breed? Were the babies ternetzis, normal red-bellies or both?

I was just curious.


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## myles (Feb 27, 2005)

no ideah but if not they should take 2 sweet ps and geneticly engineer a super P







liek a rhom and a piraya hahahahaha


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

if u search everything will be found.. i think tehre was a guy that was said to have bred ternetzi but havent really seen too much on it.. and to my knowledge there hasnt been any evidence of cross breeding.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Ternetzi have been bred in captivity. I dont know of any crossbreeding.


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## TripDs (Oct 11, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Ternetzi have been bred in captivity. I dont know of any crossbreeding.
> [snapback]953638[/snapback]​


they have a huge tank of baby terns @ a lfs here. maybe they bred em


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## divine (Jan 3, 2005)

Has anyone started a tank with breeding ternetzi as the goal?


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## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

im sure plenty have but not many have had success including myself haha.. i think i got close but that cant be proven so ehh.. theres always next time


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Yesterday, 12:49 PM
> Ternetzi have been bred in captivity. I dont know of any crossbreeding.


The yellow P. nattereri we call "ternetzi" has been bred in captivity. The fellow that bred them (for several years) states he does not mix them with the common red. He keeps his strain pure. I asked him years ago if even tried. But he told me that a friend of his did and fish looked like common red-bellies. This may also be a clue that perhaps "ternetzi" is not a separate species from P. nattereri since the species do not interbreed according to science because they are characins.


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## HighOctane (Jan 2, 2003)

I have gotten pretty close with 2 large terns who paired off for about a month untill I added some water and all spawning behavior stopped.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

hastatus said:


> The yellow P. nattereri we call "ternetzi" has been bred in captivity. The fellow that bred them (for several years) states he does not mix them with the common red. He keeps his strain pure. I asked him years ago if even tried. But he told me that a friend of his did and fish looked like common red-bellies. This may also be a clue that perhaps "ternetzi" is not a separate species from P. nattereri since the species do not interbreed according to science because they are characins.


Well hi there Hastatus,

It is unfortunately very hard to see your point. What exactly are you saying.
As a fishbiologist myself I can pinpoint here some facts.

1) Scientifically a *species* is a group of populations that can breed (reproduce) with each other and the offspring is always capable to reproduce (in contrast to sterile offspring from interbreeding). NOTE: Different species cannot interbreed with each other to form offspring capable of normal reproducing (the reproductive ability is severely lowered or usually absent).

2) Scientifically a *subspecies* is group of populations that can in theory reproduce with populations of another subspecies but of the same species. In practice this will not happen because they live in isolation from each other. Different subspecies can be distinguished from each other by great many characters.
In the course of time (evolution) subspecies may eventually form different species due to isolation (this is evolution theory of the formation of the species).

3) Scientifically a *geographical stock* (breed) is a group of populations that can in theory reproduce with populations of another geographical stock of the same species. This will not happen because they live in geographical isolation from each other. Different geographical stocks can be distinguished from each other by certain characters.

*Ternetzi* is a geographical stock of the species Pygocentrus nattereri. Thus it can be bred with other Red Belly stocks. This will not happen in nature due to geographical isolation.
But breeding Ternetzis with each other will always produce only Ternetzis. It is a stable fish stock from Rio Paraguay.

Regards,


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> harrykaa Posted Today, 04:27 AM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Mar 30 2005, 04:02 PM)
> The yellow P. nattereri we call "ternetzi" has been bred in captivity. The fellow that bred them (for several years) states he does not mix them with the common red. He keeps his strain pure. I asked him years ago if even tried. But he told me that a friend of his did and fish looked like common red-bellies. This may also be a clue that perhaps "ternetzi" is not a separate species from P. nattereri since the species do not interbreed according to science because they are characins.
> 
> ...


The only point I was trying to make (highlited in bold above in your remarks) it remains uncertain if Fink was correct in his revision, that's why he left it open for future studies. DnA has not established that "ternetzi" is a distinct species or as you stated a geographical stock of P. nattereri. So its still open for debate and one presently under review.







. The fellow I was discussing was only relaying what "he heard" which doesn't make it necessarily so.

On another point, its not uncommon to find similar pre-breeding behavior between separate species (S. altuvei vs S. rhombeus) for example when the fish are kept in separate containers. Of course, nothing would come of it except severe biting and in that regard your remarks are supported.


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