# Is this serras a Brandtii ?



## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

Hey everybody, my friend has had this P, sold as a brandtii, for about 3 months. He's over five inches but less than six, I took some pics with and without flash and did my best to get a good side shot. What do you think it is ?


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

pic 2


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

pic 3


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

pic 4, thanks Frank, and anybody else who can help me confirm this i.d.










Joe


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## LaZy (Jun 17, 2003)

Its Not a brandti its a rhom but dont knoe what kind


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## killfishygo (Jan 13, 2004)

looks like a rhom to me too


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## EddC (Apr 1, 2004)

That looks like an Elongatus but has the body shape of a Rhombeus, I think I'm going to go with an Elongatus.

Cross-Breed??

Thanks

EddC


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

The body is too compact to be an Elongatus, and I've owned three rhoms and none of them have had this fishes' head structure or gill colouring... Hopefully Frank can shed some light on the situation


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## LaZy (Jun 17, 2003)

3rd pix looks like a irrtian


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## Clay (Feb 28, 2003)

That is NOT a brandtii.


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## Guyana_Fish (Apr 2, 2004)

this looks like a irritan i catch these further downstream in the deeper waters of the rio Apure in Venezuela


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Brandtii are basically all golden. There coloration may resemble actual gold. There is a particular alignment between the rays on the Dorsal fin, and the annal fin. This alignment is unique only to S.Brandtii. I can't remember the alignment off hand, but I'm sure Frank has it on his site.

I believe irritans have a much more noticeable dark V on the tail fin, and a more condensed dotted pattern.

I am kinda poor with serrasalmus identification, but my guess would be standard rhom, or more likely a spiloCF, <altispinis> I have personally bred these old named (Red throated spiloCF's) Based on the light, and temperature; I have seen the reds diminish a lot. Thus resembling your fish. But Frank if the Man here. That's my standing guess.

Maybe someday thay will make an economical X-ray device, and us hobbiest will have some ease identifying Serrasalmus.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

The deffinate appearance of a humeral spot is leading me more toward altispinis. But Frank is the man. I'm gonna follow this tread and see if I can learn more from him.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The last photo is not S. brandtii. Hard to say what it is. But can tell you what it is not.


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

On the subject of telling what it is not, we can rule out spilo type as well can't we? Scutes look to be small...


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

All of the photos are the same fish, some are taken with the tank light on, and a couple with the tank light off, and couple with camera flash. This fishes red colouring has changed alot in the three months or so, I'll post a pic below of when he first got the fish (it probably also makes a difference that it was on white gravel) Do these pics help ?


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

another


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

Frank, you said you know what this fish 'is not' ... could this fish be a rhom varient ?

thanks for everyones input

Joe


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

> could this fish be a rhom varient ?


It could be...


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

Looks like a rhom to me


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I think it is a rhom...the later pics look kind of S. medinai with the non-red eye, humeral blotch and color. I still think it is a rhom though.


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## Bigkrup444 (Oct 6, 2003)

Im sayin a rhom


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## Guyana_Fish (Apr 2, 2004)

today i caught a few fish like this and i took a closer look at them and id have to def say rhom


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

I stand firm on my belief that this is not a rhombeus complex... The fish is almost six inches and in most rhombeus I believe the red usually dissipates around three or four inches. I have looked very thoroughly around the OPEFE site and it seems to better match either a form of spilo, or irritan (except it doesn't have an irritans spotting) Does anyone own a spilo or rhom around six inches that has the gill and belly colouring of this fish ?

Thanks

Joe


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

The belly scutes are small though, Spilo would have much larger scutes.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

mechanic_joe said:


> pic 2


12" rhom


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## nubsmoke (Feb 4, 2004)

I just bought a 7 inch fish from Pedro that is very similar. It was sold as a "purple"
spilo, but is unlike any I had seen yet. The pics you posted show some of the 
large scales,and light purple/blue tint, both of which are in 7 different spilos in my
collection. I'm also interested in what exactly this fish is. Mine has gotten over all shyness, and eats food before it hits the bottom. Most of my other spilos seem to
be a little more shy, preferring to let fish chunks hit the bottom, then coming back
later.I have one that is about 5 inches in my spilo shoal, it seems to be somewhat
more aggressive than the other spilos, but tolerant. Even the 5 incher resembles 
your pic, so I think they are the same.


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## Mindtrickz (Jan 18, 2004)

RHOM


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## Aggressive (Jun 11, 2003)

eigenmanni?


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

I have been researching this a bit, and while I see the resemblance that GG sees, the red on this fish is far more distinct than what I have seen on rhoms. I have found a pic of a spilo CF on OPEFE and it looks very simular.


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

The scutes on the belly are the difference.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Also remember that the color on juve piranhas is much more briliant than on older piranhas.....From what I have seen.


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

Does Erik, or anyone else have the link or picture of the comparison of scutes on different serrass's ? I was sure I'd seen it on OPEFE, but can't find it now (perhaps its on one of the links thats under construction) I'm assuming that spilo's scutes hang much lower and more prominently than rhoms, am I correct or do I have it backwards ?

Thx

Joe


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## erikcooper (Feb 18, 2004)

look here, compare the second one as a spilo, it would be about the same.

http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/in...showtopic=35270


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