# Water changes while cycling?



## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

Are you supposed to do any water changes when you are cycling a tank?


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## Dan_U.K (Jul 13, 2004)

No leave it to cycle, also you may get away with having 4 rbp in your 75g tank as piranhas only need 20g per fish you will only be 5g below max.


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

I might go with 4, depends on how much money I have when I purchase my new rbps.


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## P-Power (Jan 23, 2004)

you could get away with mor than 5
I have 6, and if you overstocked, you could probably get away with 10 or so


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

I have a big piece of driftwood in my tank and that takes away a lot of space. I am going to stick with 3 or 4 total, I do not want to overstock.


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## pygocentres (Jul 22, 2004)

yea overstocking usually isnt a good idea unless you want to do a lot of cleaning and consistently monitoring water conditions.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

pygocentres said:


> yea overstocking usually isnt a good idea unless you want to do a lot of cleaning and consistently monitoring water conditions.


 ALOT OF WATER CHANGES FOR OVERSTOCKING. I AM A FAN OF OVERSTOCKING, BUT NOT 10 IN A 75


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## DC_Cichlid (Jun 24, 2004)

timmy said:


> pygocentres said:
> 
> 
> > yea overstocking usually isnt a good idea unless you want to do a lot of cleaning and consistently monitoring water conditions.
> ...


 caps dawg...









yeh, dont over stock... unless you want to do more water changes, and work on your tank. I would rather stick to the 20gal rule and over stock with real plants, and driftwood... and thats what im gonna do with 150 im building.


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

This thread went a little off topic


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Dont do any water changes until the tank is fully cycled, it will just prolong the process. After it is cycled, do a 50% water change and check the nitrates.


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

Doing water changes during the cycle is not going to extend it any great length of time, if at all. As a matter of fact, it is a necessity if the tank is overstocked from the start. Partial water changes are not going to remove all of the ammina from the water. But they will reduce it enough for the fish to tolerate it and not keel over.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Good info Don. 
I was under the impression that if you lessioned the ammonia or nitrites in the tank it would increase the cycle time because the colony of bacteria that produced the cycle would not be suficient to handle the bio-load of the tank. If that is not the case then that is great news as I will be needing to cycle some tanks very soon.
Im not sure what is in his tank, but he does say in his signature that his fish have not been added so I think he is using feeders to cycle, another reason I said not to do a water change and just let it run.


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## shutter13 (Jun 23, 2004)

grosse gurke said:


> Dont do any water changes until the tank is fully cycled, it will just prolong the process. After it is cycled, do a 50% water change and check the nitrates.


 what if sayyyy your parameters were like this after a month of cycling...

ammonia = 0
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 12

i would only do like a 15% water change or non at all... but usually those parameters wont occur


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

shutter13 said:


> grosse gurke said:
> 
> 
> > Dont do any water changes until the tank is fully cycled, it will just prolong the process. After it is cycled, do a 50% water change and check the nitrates.
> ...


If before these readings nitrItes and ammonia have spikes, then the tank is fully cycled, and you can start with your regular water change regime (best would imo. be 30-60% per week - depending on the bioload - divided over 2 or 3 smaller changes instead of one large water change).

If no spikes has occured at this stage, the tank lacks an ammonia source that gets the nitrogen cycle in motion.


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## DonD (Mar 11, 2004)

grosse, the levels of ammonia that build up in a tank when it is cycling are higher than what is produced daily by whatever fish are there. 
When the fish first get in the tank, there are no bacteria, this we know. They produce ammonia as do the other biological processes in the tank. But since there are no nitrifiers yet, it builds up. By the time enough of the bacteria develop to start processing the ammonia, levels have climbed way higher than they will be once the tank is cycled and leveled out. Provided of course the bio load does not increase. 
An example to illustrate the point. Any numbers I use are COMPLETELY hypothetical.
I set a 29 up a few months ago. I used 6 black skirt Tetras to cycle it. Hey, Im patient







Anyway, lets say those fish produce 3ppm ammonia every day. The bacteria colony need only be large enough to handle that. However, before the colony can fully develop, those guys have produced enough ammonia to take the levels up to say 15ppm. Now, doing a water change and diluting that back down to a reasonable range is not going to slow down growth of a colony that need only process 3ppm a day. To affect the growth of that colony, I would have to be doing daily water changes sufficient to take the ammonia down well below that 3ppm. A 30-50% water change is not going to do that.
Shutter, unless they are in your tap water, nitrates are not going to just appear without the nitrifiers being established and processing ammonia/nitrites. So if you know your tap water is free of nitrates, and you have nitrate levels in your tank, it is pretty safe to say the tank is cycled.


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## smithgrind_who (Mar 26, 2004)

BigChuckP said:


> Are you supposed to do any water changes when you are cycling a tank?


Now I am wondering what the source of ammonia is? Hey BigChuckP, are you cycling a tank and what will be the source for ammonia?


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

Feeders, they contracted ich, feeders are bad!







Should have taken peoples advice to not use feeders. They may have had parasites too, see attached.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

DonD said:


> grosse, the levels of ammonia that build up in a tank when it is cycling are higher than what is produced daily by whatever fish are there.
> When the fish first get in the tank, there are no bacteria, this we know. They produce ammonia as do the other biological processes in the tank. But since there are no nitrifiers yet, it builds up. By the time enough of the bacteria develop to start processing the ammonia, levels have climbed way higher than they will be once the tank is cycled and leveled out. Provided of course the bio load does not increase.
> An example to illustrate the point. Any numbers I use are COMPLETELY hypothetical.
> I set a 29 up a few months ago. I used 6 black skirt Tetras to cycle it. Hey, Im patient
> ...


 Makes perfect sense Don. No idea why I never thought of it that way, thanks you sir!!


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