# McCain for President



## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

*MCain was not my choice but I will be damned if I vote for Obama...


*
McCain for President


By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, October 24, 2008; A19


Contrarian that I am, I'm voting for John McCain. I'm not talking about bucking the polls or the media consensus that it's over before it's over. I'm talking about bucking the rush of wet-fingered conservatives leaping to Barack Obama before they're left out in the cold without a single state dinner for the next four years.

I stand athwart the rush of conservative ship-jumpers of every stripe -- neo (Ken Adelman), moderate (Colin Powell), genetic/ironic (Christopher Buckley) and socialist/atheist (Christopher Hitchens) -- yelling "Stop!" I shall have no part of this motley crew. I will go down with the McCain ship. I'd rather lose an election than lose my bearings.

First, I'll have no truck with the phony case ginned up to rationalize voting for the most liberal and inexperienced presidential nominee in living memory. The "erratic" temperament issue, for example. As if McCain's risky and unsuccessful but in no way irrational attempt to tactically maneuver his way through the economic tsunami that came crashing down a month ago renders unfit for office a man who demonstrated the most admirable equanimity and courage in the face of unimaginable pressures as a prisoner of war, and who later steadily navigated innumerable challenges and setbacks, not the least of which was the collapse of his campaign just a year ago.

McCain the "erratic" is a cheap Obama talking point. The 40-year record testifies to McCain the stalwart.

Nor will I countenance the "dirty campaign" pretense. The double standard here is stunning. Obama ran a scurrilous Spanish-language ad falsely associating McCain with anti-Hispanic slurs. Another ad falsely claimed that McCain supports "cutting Social Security benefits in half." And for months Democrats insisted that McCain sought 100 years of war in Iraq.

McCain's critics are offended that he raised the issue of William Ayers. What's astonishing is that Obama was himself not offended by William Ayers.

Moreover, the most remarkable of all tactical choices of this election season is the attack that never was. Out of extreme (and unnecessary) conscientiousness, McCain refused to raise the legitimate issue of Obama's most egregious association -- with the race-baiting Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Dirty campaigning, indeed.

The case for McCain is straightforward. The financial crisis has made us forget, or just blindly deny, how dangerous the world out there is. We have a generations-long struggle with Islamic jihadism. An apocalyptic soon-to-be-nuclear Iran. A nuclear-armed Pakistan in danger of fragmentation. A rising Russia pushing the limits of revanchism. Plus the sure-to-come Falklands-like surprise popping out of nowhere.

Who do you want answering that phone at 3 a.m.? A man who's been cramming on these issues for the past year, who's never had to make an executive decision affecting so much as a city, let alone the world? A foreign policy novice instinctively inclined to the flabbiest, most vaporous multilateralism (e.g., the Berlin Wall came down because of "a world that stands as one"), and who refers to the most deliberate act of war since Pearl Harbor as "the tragedy of 9/11," a term more appropriate for a bus accident?

Or do you want a man who is the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most serious foreign policy thinker in the United States Senate? A man who not only has the best instincts but has the honor and the courage to, yes, put country first, as when he carried the lonely fight for the surge that turned Iraq from catastrophic defeat into achievable strategic victory?

There's just no comparison. Obama's own running mate warned this week that Obama's youth and inexperience will invite a crisis -- indeed a crisis "generated" precisely to test him. Can you be serious about national security and vote on Nov. 4 to invite that test?

And how will he pass it? Well, how has he fared on the only two significant foreign policy tests he has faced since he's been in the Senate? The first was the surge. Obama failed spectacularly. He not only opposed it. He tried to denigrate it, stop it and, finally, deny its success.

The second test was Georgia, to which Obama responded instinctively with evenhanded moral equivalence, urging restraint on both sides. McCain did not have to consult his advisers to instantly identify the aggressor.

Today's economic crisis, like every other in our history, will in time pass. But the barbarians will still be at the gates. Whom do you want on the parapet? I'm for the guy who can tell the lion from the lamb.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

He's got my vote 2.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

McCain will win by the percentage equal to the number of IQ points that I've gained from reading this thread.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Jewelz said:


> McCain will win by the percentage equal to the number of IQ points that I've gained from reading this thread.


Theres too many variables.... if you started with 2 and gained 4 thats, not a possible margin of victory percentage wise

Anyways its voting for the least of 2 evils, both have their downfalls... one is age, and the others is everything about him.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Do you guys really think Obama cares about who you guys are endorsing? He's got Hamas' endorsement.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> Do you guys really think Obama cares about who you guys are endorsing? He's got Hamas' endorsement.


And McCain has Al-Qaeda's

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/374759


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Do you guys really think Obama cares about who you guys are endorsing? He's got Hamas' endorsement.


And McCain has Al-Qaeda's

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/374759

[/quote]

thats true...weird though


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## CROSSHAIR223 (Jan 17, 2005)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s02-coop.html


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

So when will the "Cut and Paste King" get his own thread (just like Baddfish)?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Jewelz said:


> Do you guys really think Obama cares about who you guys are endorsing? He's got Hamas' endorsement.


And McCain has Al-Qaeda's

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/374759
[/quote]

So f*cking what? Just because terrorists say they support something, is not an insult to McCain. That was released on the 22nd, and obama has had ties with known terrorists for over 20 years... i would rather have somebody supported by terrorists than somebody who is friends with them


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Im Canadian so i dont know sh*t about the whole US presidential race can you guys tell me in very SIMPLE FORM whats wrong with obama?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

speakyourmind said:


> Im Canadian so i dont know sh*t about the whole US presidential race can you guys tell me in very SIMPLE FORM whats wrong with obama?


Inexperience. 133 days after becoming a Senator, Obama started his campaign for presidency. He wants to promote socialism by taxing the rich and spread the wealth equally. His association with the radical Rev. Wright for 23 yrs. His foreign policy on Iraq troop surge was wrong. He wanted restrain on an invaded country Georgia toward the invader Russia. He's pro-choice.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

speakyourmind said:


> Im Canadian so i dont know sh*t about the whole US presidential race can you guys tell me in very SIMPLE FORM whats wrong with obama?


as simple as possible: He could never even get clearance to become an FBI agent, or federal employee why should he be HEAD OF THE NATION with clearance to any information he wants? He has had known ties to terrorists (william aires to name one, who set bombs at the pentagon and capitol buildings), he wont put his hand over his heart for the national anthem (theres videos) his pastor and advisor said "god damn america" and that the US is to blame for 9/11... would you want that person holding supreme power? Not to mention his policies of "change" and higher taxes


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

^ Gotcha thanks


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

rchan11 said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


while i respect what you are saying, someone can easily say that they don't agree with McCains views on social, fiscal, and foreign policy.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

gamgenius said:


> So when will the "Cut and Paste King" get his own thread (just like Baddfish)?


When people start posting crap like ^^^?


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

Skunkbudfour20 said:


> Im Canadian so i dont know sh*t about the whole US presidential race can you guys tell me in very SIMPLE FORM whats wrong with obama?


as simple as possible: He could never even get clearance to become an FBI agent, or federal employee why should he be HEAD OF THE NATION with clearance to any information he wants? He has had known ties to terrorists (william aires to name one, who set bombs at the pentagon and capitol buildings), he wont put his hand over his heart for the national anthem (theres videos) his pastor and advisor said "god damn america" and that the US is to blame for 9/11... would you want that person holding supreme power? Not to mention his policies of "change" and higher taxes
[/quote]

You do not know if he could be an FBI agent unless you have already run a background check. Having 'friends' that are terrorists doesnt discount you. And besides, the president does not need to have a check. This argument seems so weird to me. What do you think obama will actually do with this super duper secret information? The right makes it sound like obama is gonna turn traitor as soon as he comes into office. Do you honestly believe he 'unamerican'? a traitor?

the connections with ayers are weak. he sat on a board(sponsored by a republican with ties to reagan i believe) with him? About education, of which Ayers is a professor of at a university in Chicago. Boards are made of people from all different backgrounds. He had a coffee date in his house to launch his political career(the right makes it sound like obama owes it all to ayers)? Yes, but again, Ayers is a distinguished professor at a university, has written books on education, etc. so as bad as the things he did are, he is living a life now of a professor which is fairly respectable.

Rev wright...we have heard what 3 speeches in the 20 years he went to that church that were out of hand and downright stupid? As far as i know, there is no evidence that obama was even in the audience on those days, and what are the sermons like at the hundreds of other sundays?

Policies of change and taxes...now THAT is fair game. These are issues and these are what elections should be decided on. I may disagree with you on these issues, but that is fair and i respect that.

The fact that none of the attack ads have taken hold speaks volumes of what the public thinks about them.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

rchan11 said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

scrubbs said:


> Im Canadian so i dont know sh*t about the whole US presidential race can you guys tell me in very SIMPLE FORM whats wrong with obama?


as simple as possible: He could never even get clearance to become an FBI agent, or federal employee why should he be HEAD OF THE NATION with clearance to any information he wants? He has had known ties to terrorists (william aires to name one, who set bombs at the pentagon and capitol buildings), he wont put his hand over his heart for the national anthem (theres videos) his pastor and advisor said "god damn america" and that the US is to blame for 9/11... would you want that person holding supreme power? Not to mention his policies of "change" and higher taxes
[/quote]

You do not know if he could be an FBI agent unless you have already run a background check. Having 'friends' that are terrorists doesnt discount you. And besides, the president does not need to have a check. This argument seems so weird to me. What do you think obama will actually do with this super duper secret information? *The right makes it sound like obama is gonna turn traitor as soon as he comes into office. Do you honestly believe he 'unamerican'? a traitor? *

the connections with ayers are weak. he sat on a board(sponsored by a republican with ties to reagan i believe) with him? About education, of which Ayers is a professor of at a university in Chicago. Boards are made of people from all different backgrounds. He had a coffee date in his house to launch his political career(the right makes it sound like obama owes it all to ayers)? Yes, but again, Ayers is a distinguished professor at a university, has written books on education, etc. so as bad as the things he did are, he is living a life now of a professor which is fairly respectable.

Rev wright...we have heard what 3 speeches in the 20 years he went to that church that were out of hand and downright stupid? As far as i know, there is no evidence that obama was even in the audience on those days, and what are the sermons like at the hundreds of other sundays?

Policies of change and taxes...now THAT is fair game. These are issues and these are what elections should be decided on. I may disagree with you on these issues, but that is fair and i respect that.

The fact that none of the attack ads have taken hold speaks volumes of what the public thinks about them.
[/quote]

Doesnt matter what he does with it... giving him access to it could potentially lead to him giving it out

And i never said i was voting for mccain, i will prob write in mickey mouse or something... i just think its picking the least evil person in every election and thats F*****


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## FuZZy (Apr 18, 2003)

baddfish said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!








[/quote]

baddfish your a disgrace.


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

What the hell is wrong with pro choice? It's neither condoning, nor stopping abortion, but leaving the FREE WILL in the hands of the people. This is AMERICA.


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## beercandan (Nov 3, 2004)

FuZZy said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!








[/quote]

baddfish your a disgrace.
[/quote]
i have had friends fight and die for this country


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

Tell that to the widows of the soldiers who died to give us freedom.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Slytooth13 said:


> Tell that to the widows of the soldiers who died to give us freedom.


We don't have to tell them. The overwhelming majority of them tell us their husbands died doing what they loved. They are proud that they sacrificed their lives for their country . Many of them reenlisted several times.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Slytooth13 said:


> What the hell is wrong with pro choice? It's neither condoning, nor stopping abortion, but leaving the FREE WILL in the hands of the people. This is AMERICA.


Free will to commit murder? The embryo is a living being when left alone will become a human being. Don't tell me it's not living and anyone can terminate it. It has the complete feature of a human down to the beating heart and fingers. The embryo has a similar DNA sequence as the mother, but not exact. Therefore, the embryo is not part of the mother, she only carries it.

90% of the Down Syndrome unborn are terminated. When carried to term, they become human beings.

If you crack open an egg of a Bald Eagle, you go to jail. We put more value on animals then humans.


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

i find it strange that the author would rather lose an election than his bearings and vote for a man who is NOT conservative. a man who the republican party didn't think was conservative enough during primaries. bearings, my ass. this man is a liberal. and continuing to vote for a man that suspended his campaign for this "bail out" which the people didn't want is laughable.

and rchan, if you kill a pregnant woman, it's a double homicide but the supreme court declared that same person is not a person but the property of the mother. makes you ill, don't it?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

mdrs said:


> and rchan, if you kill a pregnant woman, it's a double homicide but the supreme court declared that same person is not a person but the property of the mother. makes you ill, don't it?


Thank you! Double homicide, not single. If the baby survives, then it will only be single. The Laci Peterson trial is the perfect example. Scott Peterson was convicted of double murder.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

baddfish said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!








[/quote]

Are you kidding me?


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## greenmonkey51 (Aug 16, 2004)

> QUOTE(rchan11 @ Oct 25 2008, 02:50 AM) *
> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?
> 
> I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom. biggrin.gif Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical! thumbsdown.gif


I've met veterans of ever major war in the last 60 years. Are you saying they didn't do anything. That's complete bullshit. They fought and died for this country. Stop reading all the liberal crap you quote, get out of your parents basement, and meet some real people. Get out of that sewer you call Chicago and meet some real midwestern people. People that are proud of America and don't try to tear it down every chance they get.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Greenmonkey...Thank you for your service to our country!


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

baddfish said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!








[/quote]

Cesar, I don't know what point you are trying to make, or what angle you are coming from for that matter. This is hands down the most ridiculous, asinine, and disrespectful comment I have ever seen posted on this board...and I've seen a lot.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

BioTeAcH said:


> So when will the "Cut and Paste King" get his own thread (just like Baddfish)?


When people start posting crap like ^^^?
[/quote]

very intelligent response. i see why you are a moderator. LOL @ U.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

mdmedicine does not need to be contained to one thread and his cutting and pasting at least includes a source.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

we would not have all these problems with McCain and Obama if G W Bush could just stay president for another 4! Its too bad that he cant...

LMAO... kidding,

Barrack Hussain Obama, man... I just cant see that a name of a AMERICAN president.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

> Who do you want answering that phone at 3 a.m.? A man who's been cramming on these issues for the past year, who's never had to make an executive decision affecting so much as a city, let alone the world? A foreign policy novice instinctively inclined to the flabbiest, most vaporous multilateralism (e.g., the Berlin Wall came down because of "a world that stands as one"), and who refers to the most deliberate act of war since Pearl Harbor as *"the tragedy of 9/11," a term more appropriate for a bus accident*?


now that's a sterling argument. because 9/11 wasn't a tragedy or anything...

i wish people would stop choosing candidates based on emotion. rchan is a perfect example...he was a POW, he gave his life to this nation, how can i not vote for him?

well, that sounds great if it was in a book or a movie or something, the good guy wins, the maverick, the war hero, unfortunately the mccain ticket is weaker. people want change, obama has been running his campaign with the word change since he started, mccain picked up on that a little late because he saw it was working. mccain is bush, plain and simple. he's the same person, he voted on the same sh*t, and he supported the same things bush supported. obama is a lot more believable that some things he proposes will actually get done, versus mccain, who i feel will say anything to get into the whitehouse. that's why im voting for obama, not because "how can i not vote for him".



greenmonkey51 said:


> > QUOTE(rchan11 @ Oct 25 2008, 02:50 AM) *
> > Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?
> >
> > I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom. biggrin.gif Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical! thumbsdown.gif
> ...


umm. all the real people, the people with 9-5 jobs, things of the such, the MILLIONS of people, are in cities like boston, new york, CHICAGO, LA, big cities like that...midwest is a whole lot of corn.

and all the vets you met didn't die for this country.

you should gather up your **** hounds, and make a trek to the city. you'll get a lot of attention with that racoon hat too. dont be afraid...the city isn't as bad as the media portrays it. we have these things called airplanes, and they let you travel all over the place really fast. you'll be amazed when you see one.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Curley said:


> LMAO... kidding,
> 
> Barrack Hussain Obama, man... I just cant see that a name of a AMERICAN president.


Yeah that would be way weird because his name is actually Hussein. President Hussein Obama sounds right


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## mauls (Mar 25, 2004)

IN

f*ck obama and that stupid idiot biden


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

i only see two positves with obama. 1) he's a good public speaker. 2) theres nothing wrong with pro choice.

other than that i cant stand the guy. mccain is an old focker, but still better and more trustworthy than obama. obama's complete lack of experience is extremely concerning. really makes you wonder why they chose him to run as the democratic nominee. even hillary would have been 10X better, and given the dems a better chance of winning


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## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

Why do you people even bother trying to make sense to baddfish? r1der also... Baddfish is a conspiracy theorist WHO COULD MOVE HIS ANTI-AMERICAN ASS OUT OF THE COUNTRY if he wished to, but he won't. He'll just sell his fish and complain on the internet all day, commenting that soldiers dont die for freedom or country just to see what kind of responses he gets. The same guy "pulling" for our local laborers, but putting down our soldiers. Remember to wear your boots when reading what he writes, the bs piles up quick.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

This has to be the best election in history

Loving every minute of it


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

baddfish said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!








[/quote]

you dont buy the fact that he was a POW? are you thick as pigsh*t?

i can vouch for him. in the hanoi hilton they have pictures of him A) getting hauled out of the lake by the VC. B) Getting brought into the Hanoi Hilton. C) STAYING in the Hanoi hilton, and pictures following a number of years. They also have his flightsuit, and some other sh*t. i highly doubt that during the vietnam war the americans called up the north vietnamese and said, "hey guys...we have this plan...we want to make this guy president one day...can you help us spin some bullsh*t to be used 40 years from now?"


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Puff said:


> . even hillary would have been 10X better, and given the dems a better chance of winning


Hmm, yeah. That's like saying the Globetrotters might have a better chance of beating the Generals if they rearranged their line-up a bit. It wouldn't make any difference if it was Hillary or BHO. 
Actually, Hillary would've worked in McCain's favor because he wouldn't have picked that retarded woman as VP.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

gamgenius said:


> This has to be the best election in history
> 
> Loving every minute of it


Too bad you won't be saying that for the next 4 years...that's regardless of who wins.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

BioTeAcH said:


> This has to be the best election in history
> 
> Loving every minute of it


Too bad you won't be saying that for the next 4 years...that's regardless of who wins.
[/quote]

I am aware of the messy situation we're in and everyone knows more tough times will follow regardless of who's president.

I am only talking about the election itself - this is as exciting as it gets


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## greenmonkey51 (Aug 16, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> Greenmonkey...Thank you for your service to our country!


I have never served. I would gladly, but I had other options coming out of high school. I was just brought up right to respect veterans and all our soldiers.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

TheWayThingsR said:


> Why do you people even bother trying to make sense to baddfish? r1der also... Baddfish is a conspiracy theorist WHO COULD MOVE HIS ANTI-AMERICAN ASS OUT OF THE COUNTRY if he wished to, but he won't. He'll just sell his fish and complain on the internet all day, commenting that soldiers dont die for freedom or country just to see what kind of responses he gets. The same guy "pulling" for our local laborers, but putting down our soldiers. Remember to wear your boots when reading what he writes, the bs piles up quick.


dont lump me in this response. if you knew how to create a good counter argument you wouldn't have such trouble "making sense" of my posts.


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## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

r1dermon said:


> Why do you people even bother trying to make sense to baddfish? r1der also... Baddfish is a conspiracy theorist WHO COULD MOVE HIS ANTI-AMERICAN ASS OUT OF THE COUNTRY if he wished to, but he won't. He'll just sell his fish and complain on the internet all day, commenting that soldiers dont die for freedom or country just to see what kind of responses he gets. The same guy "pulling" for our local laborers, but putting down our soldiers. Remember to wear your boots when reading what he writes, the bs piles up quick.


dont lump me in this response. if you knew how to create a good counter argument you wouldn't have such trouble "making sense" of my posts.
[/quote]

Sorry to 'lump' you, I was just implying that you and baddfish have the same views and disregard for everybody else. And I never said anything about having trouble making sense of your posts. Also, I wasn't trying to argue anything, so I didn't even need to create a counter argument. Hit the pipe a little early today?


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

TheWayThingsR said:


> Why do you people even bother trying to make sense to baddfish? r1der also... Baddfish is a conspiracy theorist WHO COULD MOVE HIS ANTI-AMERICAN ASS OUT OF THE COUNTRY if he wished to, but he won't. He'll just sell his fish and complain on the internet all day, commenting that soldiers dont die for freedom or country just to see what kind of responses he gets. The same guy "pulling" for our local laborers, but putting down our soldiers. Remember to wear your boots when reading what he writes, the bs piles up quick.


dont lump me in this response. if you knew how to create a good counter argument you wouldn't have such trouble "making sense" of my posts.
[/quote]

Sorry to 'lump' you, I was just implying that you and baddfish have the same views and disregard for everybody else. And I never said anything about having trouble making sense of your posts. Also, I wasn't trying to argue anything, so I didn't even need to create a counter argument. Hit the pipe a little early today?
[/quote]

i've never sponsored any of baddfishes views.


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

arguing politics on a fish board is fun guys.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> This has to be the best election in history
> 
> Loving every minute of it


Too bad you won't be saying that for the next 4 years...that's regardless of who wins.
[/quote]

I am aware of the messy situation we're in and everyone knows more tough times will follow regardless of who's president.

*I am only talking about the election itself - this is as exciting as it gets*
[/quote]

I can't argue with that...it will be interesting to see voter turn out this year.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

Skunkbudfour20 said:


> Im Canadian so i dont know sh*t about the whole US presidential race can you guys tell me in very SIMPLE FORM whats wrong with obama?


as simple as possible: He could never even get clearance to become an FBI agent, or federal employee why should he be HEAD OF THE NATION with clearance to any information he wants? He has had known ties to terrorists (william aires to name one, who set bombs at the pentagon and capitol buildings), he wont put his hand over his heart for the national anthem (theres videos) his pastor and advisor said "god damn america" and that the US is to blame for 9/11... would you want that person holding supreme power? Not to mention his policies of "change" and higher taxes
[/quote]

You do not know if he could be an FBI agent unless you have already run a background check. Having 'friends' that are terrorists doesnt discount you. And besides, the president does not need to have a check. This argument seems so weird to me. What do you think obama will actually do with this super duper secret information? *The right makes it sound like obama is gonna turn traitor as soon as he comes into office. Do you honestly believe he 'unamerican'? a traitor? *

the connections with ayers are weak. he sat on a board(sponsored by a republican with ties to reagan i believe) with him? About education, of which Ayers is a professor of at a university in Chicago. Boards are made of people from all different backgrounds. He had a coffee date in his house to launch his political career(the right makes it sound like obama owes it all to ayers)? Yes, but again, Ayers is a distinguished professor at a university, has written books on education, etc. so as bad as the things he did are, he is living a life now of a professor which is fairly respectable.

Rev wright...we have heard what 3 speeches in the 20 years he went to that church that were out of hand and downright stupid? As far as i know, there is no evidence that obama was even in the audience on those days, and what are the sermons like at the hundreds of other sundays?

Policies of change and taxes...now THAT is fair game. These are issues and these are what elections should be decided on. I may disagree with you on these issues, but that is fair and i respect that.

The fact that none of the attack ads have taken hold speaks volumes of what the public thinks about them.
[/quote]

Doesnt matter what he does with it... giving him access to it could potentially lead to him giving it out

And i never said i was voting for mccain, i will prob write in mickey mouse or something... i just think its picking the least evil person in every election and thats F*****
[/quote]

why on earth do you think obama would 'give out' top secret material? Has he ever done anything like that before? Obama has probably ran one of the tightest campaigns in history and you think he is going to give out our nuclear war plans or something?


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

and THIS is why palin is scary...






Palin, while talking about increase funding for special needs children, singled out research using fruit flies as wasteful. She even said 'i kid you not'. I guess palin fails to understand that fruit fly research has been incredibly important in understanding birth defects and what causes them and has even helped doctors understand down syndrome, something which her youngest child has. Fruit fly research is incredibly important in science these days, but i guess it has little or nothing to do with the public good.

I dont know if this is because of palin's ignorance of the subject, her lack of preparedness for her first policy speech ever, or her distates for science.


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## PELIGROSO PYGO (Aug 27, 2008)

I'm not from america but i've kept a very close eye on the election.. well many ppl from canada have been watching lol.. honestly i think both obama and mcCain are great choices, i honestly thought obama was gonna be behind majorly against McCain but within the last few weeks i see more ignorance coming towards the McCain Campaign and voters because Obama Is ahead.. now what i don't understand is why soo many ppl are blasting at Obama because hes winning? he doesn't hold everyone at gun point and tell them you better vote for me or else.. americans have the right to vote for whoever they want, so instead of being angry at Obama for him winning at the moment, argue with the ppl who support him and ask them why they do support him.. I'm pretty sure your gonna get a straight forward answer only if you accept it...

And i see nothing wrong with his name.. Barack Hussien Obama.. nothing wrong with that.. comeon ppl whats with all this hate and anger?? i live in a city where every nationality from around this world walk together and look at each other as a equal.. now i heard some funny names but i also have enough respect not to point and make fun or names nor religion.. this is 2008 get with the program..


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

i'm sure you've read about this but i thought i'd post it anyway.






a candidate finally asked some real questions. obama campaign pissed.


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## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

He sure was agitated. He agreed to talk to the media knowing it could go in seven different directions. He should have kept his cool.


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

i laugh that we even call them CANDIDates anymore. why even bother? they're supposed to be asked tough questions so we know who we're voting for. major media outlets have been on vacation this election. hillary clinton even refused to answer questions and people considered her a serious player in the primaries. this is just funny.


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

GO McCAIN!!!!!!


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

mccain sucks too. down with both of the main parties in office now. anyone who wants "change" and votes for the same damn two parties over and over is talking out their ass.


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

face it mdrs---that kind of change will not happen in our lifetime...you are basically talking about a "revolution of ideas"...which Obama comes close to...butt, not really..


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

all it takes is a people motivated by a need. it could happen any time. but then, we'd have to take responsibility for ourselves wouldn't we? we might never get there while i'm alive but that doesn't mean i'll whine for change and do the same thing we've done for generations, like everyone else.

one way or another, this political cycle will not go on perpetually. one day, there will be no "bailout" to vote for. then people will see (though not truly understand) the consequences of living like rich morons. and make no mistake, when compared with the rest of the world, no one in this nation is poor. we just aren't living down to earth like we should be.

EDIT: tell me one original idea obama had during his entire campaign. he just took already popular liberal ideas and ran on those. universal healthcare? redistribution of wealth? ha. he's as original as a piece of cardboard, or john mccain.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Everyone's talking like BHO's got this in the bag but McCain could still win, IMO.

Remember, he was already left for dead and given no chance during the primary season. These polls will start to tighten some next week, plus GOP has a very effective 72-hour 'get out to vote' apparatus.

If you buy McCain stock at intrade.com right now, you'll make roughly 7 times what you put in if/when he wins


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

mdrs said:


> all it takes is a people motivated by a need. it could happen any time. but then, we'd have to take responsibility for ourselves wouldn't we? we might never get there while i'm alive but that doesn't mean i'll whine for change and do the same thing we've done for generations, like everyone else.
> 
> one way or another, this political cycle will not go on perpetually. one day, there will be no "bailout" to vote for. then people will see (though not truly understand) the consequences of living like rich morons. and make no mistake, when compared with the rest of the world, no one in this nation is poor. we just aren't living down to earth like we should be.


people like you, me, jewelz, diddye, and a few others on these boards, who actually give a rats ass about the issues are few and far between, very few people realize the connection they have with the president, and how it affects their lives. they see their life up to their boss, and that's where it ends. they dont understand why their paycheck is cut up the way it is, and they dont understand, or care to understand the major effects of government on their lives. they simply vote because one guy looks better than the other. i met someone today who is voting for mccain because "he's a real american". and i've met people voting for barrack because he's black, not even knowing anything about the man, never being registered to vote before in their lives. 2 parties is what we as a society are bred to understand by the media, and without major media cooperation, a 3rd party will never get a shot. ever.


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

r1dermon said:


> all it takes is a people motivated by a need. it could happen any time. but then, we'd have to take responsibility for ourselves wouldn't we? we might never get there while i'm alive but that doesn't mean i'll whine for change and do the same thing we've done for generations, like everyone else.
> 
> one way or another, this political cycle will not go on perpetually. one day, there will be no "bailout" to vote for. then people will see (though not truly understand) the consequences of living like rich morons. and make no mistake, when compared with the rest of the world, no one in this nation is poor. we just aren't living down to earth like we should be.


people like you, me, jewelz, diddye, and a few others on these boards, who actually give a rats ass about the issues are few and far between, very few people realize the connection they have with the president, and how it affects their lives. they see their life up to their boss, and that's where it ends. they dont understand why their paycheck is cut up the way it is, and they dont understand, or care to understand the major effects of government on their lives. they simply vote because one guy looks better than the other. i met someone today who is voting for mccain because "he's a real american". and i've met people voting for barrack because he's black, not even knowing anything about the man, never being registered to vote before in their lives. 2 parties is what we as a society are bred to understand by the media, and without major media cooperation, a 3rd party will never get a shot. ever.
[/quote]

as long as the people continue to waste their power on these corporations, yes you're right. your "bred to understand" reasoning is totally off base, though. there have been numerous times when there were more than two parties. however, you need to seriously consider your grasp on government when you want to vote someone into office who PROMISES a much bigger government. in the end, that's the democratic answer: more government. and you're also voting for THE OLDEST party in the history of the nation. how long have democrats had to get it right? republicans are going down the same road, now as well. mostly because people want less responsibility.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

on the same token, who's going to fight for us? the corporations that steal from us? you can't have it both ways.


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

r1dermon said:


> on the same token, who's going to fight for us? the corporations that steal from us? you can't have it both ways.


despite how most of us see things politically, we want the same thing. we just want a government that leaves us alone as much as humanly possible and the freedom to suceed or fail on our own. all the entitilement crap some dems push out can be taken care of by giving money to charities. it's the wrong thing for the government to do and the wrong message to send. if a govt. gives money, it's a right but if it's a charity, it's charity. i'm not judging people who are on entitlements i'm merely saying that it's not the way any adult of sound mind and body should have to live and i think on that, we also agree.

i think with that in mind, we should fight for ourselves. this nation got to BE a superpower because of a cultural commitment to doing for ones self and being proud of that. you are free, and with that, go and suceed. that's what i always understood the American Dream to be. that in mind, when people come together rationally, without hatred or anger, they can usually agree on what the right thing to do is. we might not agree about the day or the way to do it is but at the same time, as rational people, we can agree on a direction. when people get serious about fending for themselves, large instituions would see that. we fight for ourselves.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

unfortunately corporations control us. people have their money invested in them, and they trust them to handle their 401k's. we work for them, and they've monopolized every aspect of industry in america, from food service, to hardware, hell even getting your taxes done, most people go to a corporation to do it. corporations own the media, they make the ads and choose the ads we see. we're addicted to TV and digital entertainment, be it on the cell phone, the xbox, the TV or the internet, there's nowhere to go. corporations donate huge amounts of money to the officials WE elect in order to get favorable agendas driven for them. face it man, this land of opportunity is degrading fast as corporations outsource and undercut their employees. most entry level employees spend half their check on health insurance, and the other half on gas. this is not a recipe for a society to succeed, rather a select few. i see it as the proverbial royal family. it sucks. and on top of that, they feed us garbage daily and people eat it up, they keep people dumb. get them hooked on MTV and family guy and stupid sh*t like that. people simply dont care anymore, they just pretend. it would take a miracle injection of intelligence into a lot of american citizens to get anything done.


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

Talking politics never lead anywhere good. Fortunately for all of us (whether we agree or not) we live in a country where we are afforded the right to disagree.


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

r1dermon said:


> unfortunately corporations control us. people have their money invested in them, and they trust them to handle their 401k's. we work for them, and they've monopolized every aspect of industry in america, from food service, to hardware, hell even getting your taxes done, most people go to a corporation to do it. corporations own the media, they make the ads and choose the ads we see. we're addicted to TV and digital entertainment, be it on the cell phone, the xbox, the TV or the internet, there's nowhere to go. corporations donate huge amounts of money to the officials WE elect in order to get favorable agendas driven for them. face it man, this land of opportunity is degrading fast as corporations outsource and undercut their employees. most entry level employees spend half their check on health insurance, and the other half on gas. this is not a recipe for a society to succeed, rather a select few. i see it as the proverbial royal family. it sucks. and on top of that, they feed us garbage daily and people eat it up, they keep people dumb. get them hooked on MTV and family guy and stupid sh*t like that. people simply dont care anymore, they just pretend. it would take a miracle injection of intelligence into a lot of american citizens to get anything done.


bs. total and complete bs. the corporations aren't controlling this nation. they're driving because people won't take responsibility. you mean to tell me we're all controlled by them because we're addicted to creature comforts? because we love tv and cell phones we're not in controll? who are these "entry employees" spending half their checks on healthcare? back that up with some numbers, please. corporations outsource because other countries aren't deadset and all the sh*t we demand from employers. healthcare, paid leave, minimum wage, sensitivity training, other benifits, sh*t NAME it. we've hated and persecuted "the rich" (business owners and industrialists) for generations, well now you reap it. this is what happens. i don't see americans lining up to pay extra to keep those jobs in this country. not that our government would leave off with the environmental and "progressive" taxing, the people have been duped into.

and while i'm at it, that "select few" you're pissed about? they pay the vast majority of taxes in this country. "sure they can afford it" might make sense in passing but who do you think pays taxes we love to see levied on businesses? do think they just absorb that expense because it's the "nice" or "patriotic" thing to do? go to irs.gov and verify how damn much money the government charges you because "you make enough" to pay it. you wouldn't settle for treatment like that anywhere else, would you? would you pay another $4 a gallon for gas because the gas station feels "you can afford it" when joe blow from wallmart gets a better price?

people are 100% in controll of their lives. that won't be true forever especially with more and more people running to the government to "fix it" and to "make it fair". we always talk about energy independance but when was the last time people considered it a goal to be independant themselves? we elect someone who will "change the country" or was it just government? or our standing in the world? or the economy? or spending? hmmm. was it taxes? education? healthcare? immigration? women's rights? abortion? we don't really think even our president can do all that nonsense do we? who are we electing here, God? you think the constitution is important but it clearly states these are NOT the job of the president.

with freedom comes real responsibility. the average person will tell you they don't have time to look in to all this but ask them about american idol or fantasy sports and they'll talk your ear off. most people don't trust the government but want it to take on more power. would it make sense to say i don't trust you but i want you to teach my children or direct my doctor when i need help? let ME do the important stuff. let ME choose my education, retirement, and healthcare. let ME fail on my own if i'm willing to succeed on my own. i don't WANT your help. THAT's the mindset this country needs back. and you CAN'T elect it. you do, however, get a groovy doorprize. you can elect people (and both parties do) who tell you that you NEED their help. that you can't do it on your own because of (insert bad guy who hates you). so elect them and they'll look out for you. they'll help you. because the other guy doesn't understand you.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

r1dermon said:


> unfortunately corporations control us. people have their money invested in them, and they trust them to handle their 401k's. we work for them, and they've monopolized every aspect of industry in america, from food service, to hardware, hell even getting your taxes done, most people go to a corporation to do it. corporations own the media, they make the ads and choose the ads we see. we're addicted to TV and digital entertainment, be it on the cell phone, the xbox, the TV or the internet, there's nowhere to go. corporations donate huge amounts of money to the officials WE elect in order to get favorable agendas driven for them. face it man, this land of opportunity is degrading fast as corporations outsource and undercut their employees. most entry level employees spend half their check on health insurance, and the other half on gas. this is not a recipe for a society to succeed, rather a select few. i see it as the proverbial royal family. it sucks. and on top of that, they feed us garbage daily and people eat it up, they keep people dumb. get them hooked on MTV and family guy and stupid sh*t like that. people simply dont care anymore, they just pretend. it would take a miracle injection of intelligence into a lot of american citizens to get anything done.


Now we are getting it. COMPLETELY agree!


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## mdrs (May 1, 2006)

baddfish said:


> unfortunately corporations control us. people have their money invested in them, and they trust them to handle their 401k's. we work for them, and they've monopolized every aspect of industry in america, from food service, to hardware, hell even getting your taxes done, most people go to a corporation to do it. corporations own the media, they make the ads and choose the ads we see. we're addicted to TV and digital entertainment, be it on the cell phone, the xbox, the TV or the internet, there's nowhere to go. corporations donate huge amounts of money to the officials WE elect in order to get favorable agendas driven for them. face it man, this land of opportunity is degrading fast as corporations outsource and undercut their employees. most entry level employees spend half their check on health insurance, and the other half on gas. this is not a recipe for a society to succeed, rather a select few. i see it as the proverbial royal family. it sucks. and on top of that, they feed us garbage daily and people eat it up, they keep people dumb. get them hooked on MTV and family guy and stupid sh*t like that. people simply dont care anymore, they just pretend. it would take a miracle injection of intelligence into a lot of american citizens to get anything done.


Now we are getting it. COMPLETELY agree!








[/quote]

r1, is it not prudent to rethink your world view a bit now? seriously.


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## 94NDTA (Jul 14, 2003)

baddfish said:


> Mc Cain gave the last 40 years of his life to this country, including 8 1/2 yrs as a POW. His service to our country, as well as all the soldiers who suffered and died to give us the freedom that we so cherish. How can I vote for someone else?


I dont buy this BULLSHIT! Who said he was a POW? The same 'leaders' who have been LIEING their ASSES off to you since the begining of time? I cant believe some of you actually believe ANYONE has ever fought for your freedom.







Lies, lies and more lies. Keep sucking them up people. Its typical!








[/quote]
Wow, you really are just a peice of sh*t aren't you.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

its eerily like george bush.


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