# Is It Normal?



## new era

Please help me, I'm not sure if this is normal or not but just right now I fed them and they are not even eating. Thanks.

If the video link doesn't work go on YouTube and search my username "yeelthao" video should be call "adult Rbp"

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/profile?user=yeelthao


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## BuckeyeGuy777

gotta give more info then just "they wont eat"....

tank size
# of P's and size
what kind of filtration
whats your water parameters
what your feeding them
how often
?????


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## FishermanCanada

Your reds look fine. Maybe the tank is a bit small but nothing looks out of the ordinary. Water temp will cause your fish to stop eating also and so will over feeding.
click on link to view the video
new era's red shoal


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## BuckeyeGuy777

i couldnt see the vid before...but ya like FC said


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## new era

BuckeyeGuy777 said:


> Your reds look fine. Maybe the tank is a bit small but nothing looks out of the ordinary. Water temp will cause your fish to stop eating also and so will over feeding.
> click on link to view the video
> new era's red shoal


They don't usually act like this. I mean, if the tank is too small then I don't think they would have bred for me. Only feed them 3-4 times a week. They always eat when I feed them. Good to know it looks normal but does your red every swim to the top gasping for air or swim the bottom like they are chewing gum or something.


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## norgebball

they look stressed, mine usually open mouths like that when hungry. try feeding them something other than hikari pellets, try blood worms or something. do their bellies look tighter than normal? also try doing 10% water changes every 2 days for a week. big water changes might stress them out too


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## FishermanCanada

new era said:


> Your reds look fine. Maybe the tank is a bit small but nothing looks out of the ordinary. Water temp will cause your fish to stop eating also and so will over feeding.
> click on link to view the video
> new era's red shoal


They don't usually act like this. I mean, if the tank is too small then I don't think they would have bred for me. Only feed them 3-4 times a week. They always eat when I feed them. Good to know it looks normal but does your red every swim to the top gasping for air or swim the bottom like they are chewing gum or something.
[/quote]

maybe you need more oxygen in the water, perhaps a power head. Do all of them swim around the bottom constantly moving their jaws? Are they filling up their swim bladder with air when they cruise to the top? How big of a water change did you do? Are they struggling at all to keep up right (equilibrium)?


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## Guest

Your tank is seriously under filtered for the amount of fish in it. I would add another canister. You said you check your water parameters, what are they?


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## Nzac

9 is a lot for a 125, when I had 10 in mine i was doing weekly 50% waterchanges and every other week I had to toss in an extra 50% wc to keep the nitrAtes in check. I was running an ehiem 2217 and a emporer 400 that did indeed keep amonia and nitrItes at 0.

If you are having a nitrIte reading you want more filter. Removing carbon/replacing it with peat should not cause a nitrIte spike. Excessive nitrItes can cause the panting you are describing, but other things will as well.

the "chewing gum" look you are talking about, I have had piranha do that when they are hungry.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

ya i would say there are 2 things you need to check and both FC and ksls have hit them both...

the 405 is for 100gallon tanks and being you keep P's they need evn more filtration...either a 2nd canister or a fluval FX5...and check the params and post them
dont just say "their fine" post the actual numbers so we can help

and like FC asked...what do you do for water changes? and you might need some water movement...getting like a Korilia 4 or a Korilia magnum 6


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## new era

Ph is around 6.7-6.8ppm
Ammonia is 0.25ppm
Nitrite is between 0.25-0.50ppm more towards 0.50ppm
Nitrate is between 40-80ppm which it is falling towards 40ppm

Thinking about adding a Jebo, the one that push 100g or is recommended for a 100g. I have that one laying around.

Any other suggestions?
I know they are not hungry.


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## FishermanCanada

Filtration should be a minimum of 10x the size of the tank an hour at least.

125 gallons = 1250 gallons filtered an a hour at the very least.

Also create an area where you have no current so your piranhas can rest. Swimming constantly in a high filtration system will stress them out too, they need too rest too.

good luck


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## Nzac

I believe its needing more bio media than flow, my 125 I run an ac110 and an eheim 2217, combine the 2 and its only rated around 764gph but there is simply a ton of bio media. This is more than enough to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, which is all any filters will ever do.


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## new era

So is my water parameters good?


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## norgebball

i think your filtration is fine, they could have been stressed because you said they did lay eggs this past month and u took out their fry. if your filtration was poor then they wouldn't have laid eggs and bred. taking their fry away makes them mad. my piranhas have laid eggs 5 times in the past month. they were really stressed at first when i took out the fry. I left a batch of fry in the tank and they are happy. The fry are living with my parents and a 14 inch pleco. I only have 5 (6-7) inch rbp's in the 125 i have.

i'm running
125 gal tank
1 top fin 60 300 gph
1 Emperor 400 400 gph
1 petco powerhead
1 petco Model 9904 airpump

I do 25% water changes every 2 weeks and maybe a 15% change inbetween


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## BuckeyeGuy777

new era said:


> So is my water parameters good?


No your water Params are not great...your amm. and nitrites both need to be at 0 and nitrates less than 40...

you filter is not strong enough...like FC said...10x the amount of tank water

and whats the temp?

i would suggest a 20% WC tonight


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## Nzac

while i don't agree with the 10x minimum that buck and FC are preaching, i do agree 100% that your filtration isn't cutting it if you have ammonia and nitrite readings above 0.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

Nzac said:


> while i don't agree with the 10x minimum that buck and FC are preaching, i do agree your filtration isn't cutting it if you have ammonia and nitrite readings above 0.


im using it as a reference point...if your close thats all that matters...its just good guidelines


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## Guest

new era said:


> Ph is around 6.7-6.8ppm
> Ammonia is 0.25ppm
> Nitrite is between 0.25-0.50ppm more towards 0.50ppm
> Nitrate is between 40-80ppm which it is falling towards 40ppm
> 
> Thinking about adding a Jebo, the one that push 100g or is recommended for a 100g. I have that one laying around.
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> I know they are not hungry.


As mentioned your water parameters are not ideal. You want 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites. I would also suggest a small water change of about 25% and then retest your water parameters. You really need to add more filtration.


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## Nzac

Norg, I just want to point out from my own experience that there is a huge difference in bioload in a 125 gallon tank when you go from 5 rbp to 9... huge... with 5 i could do biweekly 50% waterchanges(60 gal every 2 weeks), with 10 it was weekly with an extra one every other week(180 gal every 2 weeks), thats changing an extra 120 gallons every two weeks in same tank with same filtration, just to keep the nitrates under 40. I did not have ammonia or nitrites though. New era does have ammonia and nitrites which mean his filter is just not keeping up.


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## norgebball

Nzac said:


> Norg, I just want to point out from my own experience that there is a huge difference in bioload in a 125 gallon tank when you go from 5 rbp to 9... huge... with 5 i could do biweekly 50% waterchanges(60 gal every 2 weeks), with 10 it was weekly with an extra one every other week(180 gal every 2 weeks), thats changing an extra 120 gallons every two weeks in same tank with same filtration, just to keep the nitrates under 40. I did not have ammonia or nitrites though. New era does have ammonia and nitrites which mean his filter is just not keeping up.


i agree ammonia and nitrites = not enough filtration, no sufficient bacteria, too much fish/ waste.

I'm interested how long this tanks been setup for. was it properly cycled?


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## new era

I'll do a 25% WC tomorrow because I'm out of live bacteria. I'll also throw in the jebo. Oh and I had 6 Rbp then added 3 more from Nzac, after a week or so they started breeding. 3 batch from the first pair then one batch from the new pair. Suppose to be breeding again this week. Temperature is kept at 76-78 degrees. When i turn on my second heater they start doing more of the chewing gum thing and swim to the top gasping for air more then if I keep it off.

Any other suggestion besides adding another filter?

Thanks again for all the replies. Didn't think anyone would reply since everyone is on the new site. I somewhat like this better.



norgebball said:


> Norg, I just want to point out from my own experience that there is a huge difference in bioload in a 125 gallon tank when you go from 5 rbp to 9... huge... with 5 i could do biweekly 50% waterchanges(60 gal every 2 weeks), with 10 it was weekly with an extra one every other week(180 gal every 2 weeks), thats changing an extra 120 gallons every two weeks in same tank with same filtration, just to keep the nitrates under 40. I did not have ammonia or nitrites though. New era does have ammonia and nitrites which mean his filter is just not keeping up.


i agree ammonia and nitrites = not enough filtration, no sufficient bacteria, too much fish/ waste.

I'm interested how long this tanks been setup for. was it properly cycled?
[/quote]

Tank has been running for almost a month without the reds. The reds have been living in there for more than 2 months now. I don't think the tank was properly cycled. I added about 10 gallons or maybe 15 gallons of established water from my older tank to help it get started. Some say its good, some say no its not.


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## FishermanCanada

i think basically like said above its a variety of problems. Do your best to increase everything or just get rid of at least 2-3 piranhas and do a semi large water change only. Don't clean filtration. Clean the filtration system next week. Your piranhas also grow quick so your problem will just multiply. Time to thin the shoal!


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## BuckeyeGuy777

new era said:


> I'll do a 25% WC tomorrow because I'm out of live bacteria. I'll also throw in the jebo. Oh and I had 6 Rbp then added 3 more from Nzac, after a week or so they started breeding. 3 batch from the first pair then one batch from the new pair. Suppose to be breeding again this week. Temperature is kept at 76-78 degrees. When i turn on my second heater they start doing more of the chewing gum thing and swim to the top gasping for air more then if I keep it off.
> 
> Any other suggestion besides adding another filter?
> 
> Thanks again for all the replies. Didn't think anyone would reply since everyone is on the new site. I somewhat like this better.


you do not need to add any live bacteria...just do the water change and put your dechloranator in...you shouldnt need 2 heaters if the first one is big enough

thats why were here man


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## Nzac

not knowing what the parameters were before you removed the carbon/added peat/noticed problem, but knowing this tank has been running at least since october, leaves me wondering if you somehow killed off your BB when playing with the filter making that change. I would still recomend another filter regardless.

going for air with higher temp or just second heater? higher temps actually lower oxygen levels in tanks which would leave them needing more air. If it is a second heater keeping it at same temp, maybe your heater has a malfunction?


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## FishermanCanada

new era said:


> Norg, I just want to point out from my own experience that there is a huge difference in bioload in a 125 gallon tank when you go from 5 rbp to 9... huge... with 5 i could do biweekly 50% waterchanges(60 gal every 2 weeks), with 10 it was weekly with an extra one every other week(180 gal every 2 weeks), thats changing an extra 120 gallons every two weeks in same tank with same filtration, just to keep the nitrates under 40. I did not have ammonia or nitrites though. New era does have ammonia and nitrites which mean his filter is just not keeping up.


i agree ammonia and nitrites = not enough filtration, no sufficient bacteria, too much fish/ waste.

I'm interested how long this tanks been setup for. was it properly cycled?
[/quote]

Tank has been running for almost a month without the reds. The reds have been living in there for more than 2 months now. I don't think the tank was properly cycled. I added about 10 gallons or maybe 15 gallons of established water from my older tank to help it get started. Some say its good, some say no its not.
[/quote]

its definitely good as long as your other aquarium is healthy. I do it when i start up a new tank and it speeds the cycling process .


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## norgebball

Nzac said:


> not knowing what the parameters were before you removed the carbon/added peat/noticed problem, but knowing this tank has been running at least since october, leaves me wondering if you somehow killed off your BB when playing with the filter making that change. I would still recomend another filter regardless.
> 
> going for air with higher temp or just second heater? higher temps actually lower oxygen levels in tanks which would leave them needing more air. If it is a second heater keeping it at same temp, maybe your heater has a malfunction?


I agree, heater malfunction is a high possibility. I was going to say this in my previous post that I had a community tank last year, within 2 weeks all fish died. They were breathing quickly like these symptoms. It was an old heater, idk what it did, either leaked or shocked the fish... I dont think it shocked them because i put my finger in the tank... anyways get that heater out of there!

I have 2 200 watt heaters, i keep tank temp 78-82 and they are breeding like urs and happy red bellies


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## Ægir

FishermanCanada said:


> its definitely good as long as your other aquarium is healthy. I do it when i start up a new tank and it speeds the cycling process .


Water contains nothing beneficial to a new tank, unless its high in ammonia... Anything beneficial (Bacteria) live in the filter media. Established media from a tank will speed up the cycle if theres an ammonia source (piece of shrimp, or fish you risk loosing in the cycle) otherwise it will just die off... because it starves.


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## new era

I think both heaters are fine, i've been using it and it helped maintain the temperature level at 76-78, if only one is running the temp. drops to 70-72 maybe lower. I will double check the heaters just in case there is something wrong with it.

Is it okay to have peat moss particles on the ground, my little brother dropped a few whole handfull when i wasn't home. Wasn't sure if i should take it out right away or leave it until i do a 25% WC??


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## BuckeyeGuy777

the peat moss doesent do anything but lower the ph a little..it has no effect on the amm,nitrite,nitrate...that is, like was already stated, a filter problem


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## new era

That's why the PH dropped. Before it was almost below 6.0 
Well, i guess the only solution is adding another filter and doing a water changes every week.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

yup...the life of owning big tanks wit Piranhas


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## new era

Man, I love big tanks. I really want a 220g or a 400g plus. It seems like my fish are doing a little better so I did not do a water change. I don't want to stress them out. Lol. Should I have changed it anyways?


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## BuckeyeGuy777

ya...changing water adds fresh water and will help with you Amm, Nitrite, an Nitrates problems...you need to do your water change

just when your finished turn the lights off and let them chill over night


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## new era

I was about to change my water but seems like a male is making a nest. Should I wait until after they spawn if they spawn to change water or should I still do it anyways?


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## BuckeyeGuy777

youo shoulda done it 2 days ago...idk iv never delt with spawning but i cant see it hurting


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## new era

Yeah I should have but I was kind of busy.


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## Nzac

I would do the water change, so what if it throws their spawning off for a day?


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## new era

Thats true. Better safe then sorry. So I did manage to change 25% of the water yesterday night. Did a good gravel vac and just water I had set up a an empty 55g aquarium with stress coat for 2 days now. That should be fine right?


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## BuckeyeGuy777

ya and id plan on doing another in 3-4 days


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## new era

I'll sure do another change in 3-4 days. Would you suggest 25% WC? LESS OR MORE?


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## Nzac

I am personally big on 50% waterchanges when I have poor water parameters just for the simple fact that a 50% waterchange will cut the readings in half. My normal weekly waterchanges are usually 20-25%.

There have been times that a tank had high nitrates around 80ppm, I corrected this by doing 50% wc(bringing it to 40ppm), next day 50% wc(bringing it to 20ppm), next day 50% wc bringing it to 10ppm, then went back to weekly schedule. Some say that changing that much water can be bad for fish but I have the mindset that the high readings are far worse than anything clean water can bring.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

and im a big proponent for 20-25% wc more frequently than on massive change at one time...less room for error in chlorine changes, temperature spikes, and other similar issues...but thats up to you


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## Nzac

I knew there had to be some reasons some like the smaller changes, I just never knew what they were. I set temp of faucet to match tank temp, then mix my water with dechlorintor in a 32 gallon can from the tap before pumping it into tanks just to cover those very issues.


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## new era

Awesome tips. So you give it 24 hour break before changing the next day or just anytime the next day?


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## Nzac

usually 24 hours since i get home about the same time every day.


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## new era

That's good. I'll do another water change tomorrow. I should probably check my water first and if it needs to be changed i will do it.


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## new era

Just got done testing my water and it here is the result.

PH 6.8-7.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate is between 40-80ppm. Again it falls towards 80ppm.

Question is, should i do a WC since everything seem okay except Nitrate or should i be change?

Thanks!


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## BuckeyeGuy777

it cant hurt


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## Nzac

I always strive to keep my nitrates under 20ppm, so that would be yes to waterchange


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## new era

Thanks, guessing that's a 50% WC again?


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## BuckeyeGuy777

it doesnt matter you should just plan on doing a water change twice a week till evrything is balanced...thats going to be 3-4 weeks...no need to keep asking if you should..WC are just part of owning fish. even when thing are all good you still need to do a WC at least every week or two...we are on 3 pages now of you asking if you should...you should...it suck but you have to do it to keep you tank in check


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## new era

Agree but just don't want them to be really stress out. I usually do 1 a week plus I've had bad experience doing 50% water change 3 days in a row. Killed most of my fish and the rest got really sick. Maybe bad water quality. Idk, but thanks again.


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## hogwash

Nzac said:


> Norg, I just want to point out from my own experience that there is a huge difference in bioload in a 125 gallon tank when you go from 5 rbp to 9... huge... with 5 i could do biweekly 50% waterchanges(60 gal every 2 weeks), with 10 it was weekly with an extra one every other week(180 gal every 2 weeks), thats changing an extra 120 gallons every two weeks in same tank with same filtration, just to keep the nitrates under 40. I did not have ammonia or nitrites though. New era does have ammonia and nitrites which mean his filter is just not keeping up.


Ya same problem here too with 5 RPB'S in a 150 Gallon Tank ph 6.6 amonia 0 nitrites 40-80 you just have to do water changes and have good filters and clean all the sh*t on the bottom in the rocks that you don't see.







Plus i have all right filters eheim professional 2 2028 fluval 203 and fluval 4+ power head.


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