# Plant Nitrate Consumption



## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

Say you have 240 gallon of water total in 24x 10 gallon tanks all having overflows that drain to a centralized filtration unit consisting of a 55gallon tank, the first half seperated into 4ths, 1st 1/4 where the water is coming into the tank contains sponge material to catch whatever solid wastes enter the filter, the middle 2/4s are filled with bioballs or whatever material will be able to house beneficial bacteria for the nitrogen process, the last 1/4 of the first half will hold plants, and the other half will be planted as well and hold the return pump that pumps the filtered water back into the individual tanks. Would this work? Has anyone tried something like this before?

Does anyone know of a way to replicate nature in the home aquarium so that the whole regeneration of fresh water is completed in a cycle and totally gets rid of nitrates and water changes? Also, how would one go about getting an accurate measurement of the nutrient uptake of a plant given the optimum lighting conditions for growth?


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

well i think you would need a sump filled with debris like leaves sticks dirt to replenesh the minerals and some vitiamns to your water as time goes on and your plants and bacteria take all the exsisting nutrients in the water although this would have a effect on your ph and kh but thats something you will have to deal with

i still have not heard any body say that plants and alge have anything to do with nitrates except for their role in converting nitrites to them so for the nitrates to go away youll probley need atleast 4 of those 10 gallon tanks for just real deep gravelor cand like 8 inchs deep


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm going to do research on this and see how it all works.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2008)

StryfeMP said:


> Say you have 240 gallon of water total in 24x 10 gallon tanks all having overflows that drain to a centralized filtration unit consisting of a 55gallon tank, the first half seperated into 4ths, 1st 1/4 where the water is coming into the tank contains sponge material to catch whatever solid wastes enter the filter, the middle 2/4s are filled with bioballs or whatever material will be able to house beneficial bacteria for the nitrogen process, the last 1/4 of the first half will hold plants, and the other half will be planted as well and hold the return pump that pumps the filtered water back into the individual tanks. Would this work? Has anyone tried something like this before?
> 
> Does anyone know of a way to replicate nature in the home aquarium so that the whole regeneration of fresh water is completed in a cycle and totally gets rid of nitrates and water changes? Also, how would one go about getting an accurate measurement of the nutrient uptake of a plant given the optimum lighting conditions for growth?


Sounds like a very ambitious set-up StryfeMP.

It is very difficult to replicate nature in the home aquarium because the anaerobic bacteria that convert nitrate to nitrogen gas live deep within the mud beneath the body of water. Offhand, I don't even know if this process can be acccomplished in a sump filter.

Plants use up some of the nitrate because they take the nitrogen into their roots and incorporate it into their own bodies. This is why all commericial fertilizers always contain a source of nitrogen like ammonium nitrate. I don't know how much nitrogen a plant uses compared to the production of nitrates in a tank filled with predatory fish.


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

It's an interesting to think about and quie a project to embark on but I don't think I'll be attempting it anytime soon, I just want to get all the information I can about the theory.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

The owner of my LFS has part of the wet/dry on his coral tank partitioned off and full of some sort of plants with a light fixture. I never asked, but I'm assuming it's there to control nitrates.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

bull snake you just said that the bacteria needed to turn nitrates in to nitrogen is not present in the home aquarium because of the deep substrate that is needed for the anerobic bacteria to grow and convert the nitrates into nitrogen

how then can plants wich need nitrogen get nitrogen from nitrates without the ness bacteria to convert them first maybe i missed something please clear this up


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2008)

pirayaman said:


> bull snake you just said that the bacteria needed to turn nitrates in to nitrogen is not present in the home aquarium because of the deep substrate that is needed for the anerobic bacteria to grow and convert the nitrates into nitrogen
> 
> how then can plants wich need nitrogen get nitrogen from nitrates without the ness bacteria to convert them first maybe i missed something please clear this up


Plants do not take in Nitrogen as a gas (N2) through their leaves the way the plants take in Carbon Dioxide (CO2) gas.

Rather, the plant takes in the Nitrogen through their roots as Nitrate. From there, the Nitrate is reduced to an amine and used as a component in amino acids and other molecules in the plant.

(There are exceptions to this, but this is basically how it works in an aquarium)


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

Bullsnake said:


> bull snake you just said that the bacteria needed to turn nitrates in to nitrogen is not present in the home aquarium because of the deep substrate that is needed for the anerobic bacteria to grow and convert the nitrates into nitrogen
> 
> how then can plants wich need nitrogen get nitrogen from nitrates without the ness bacteria to convert them first maybe i missed something please clear this up


Plants do not take in Nitrogen as a gas (N2) through their leaves the way the plants take in Carbon Dioxide (CO2) gas.

Rather, the plant takes in the Nitrogen through their roots as Nitrate. From there, the Nitrate is reduced to an amine and used as a component in amino acids and other molecules in the plant.

(There are exceptions to this, but this is basically how it works in an aquarium)
[/quote]

do you meen to tell me that all this time ive bin searching for a nitrate cure and having lots of plants is it i searching for the right dept of gravel to grow the nitrate eatng bacteria and all i need to do is get more plants wtf


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

pirayaman said:


> [do you meen to tell me that all this time ive bin searching for a nitrate cure and having lots of plants is it i searching for the right dept of gravel to grow the nitrate eatng bacteria and all i need to do is get more plants wtf


Pretty much man, don't know how you missed that, but yea, plants eat nitrate. More plants=less water changes.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

you cant "cure" it

its a cycle fish produce waste which eventually turns into nirate
this is either removed by being consumed by plants or taken out with water changes

thats one of the reasons you dont have you clean as much in a planted tank


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2008)

sean-820 said:


> you cant "cure" it
> 
> its a cycle fish produce waste which eventually turns into nirate
> this is either removed by being consumed by plants or taken out with water changes
> ...


Yup, that's it.


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

I think less water changes would mean more maintenance on the filters (i.e. rinsing out the media more as it gets clogged with bulk organic matter and replacing the carbon more often.) I also mentioned somewhere else that you have to add water to the tank as it evaporates and while you're at it you might as well vacuum the gravel. The plants might keep the nitrate level down low between water changes so it would provide a healthier environment for the fish so it's not a waste of time. It would be interesting with plants to monitor the pH just before you turn the tank lights off and just before you turn them back on in the morning to see what their effect on dissolved CO2 is between day and night.


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## StryfeMP (Apr 26, 2007)

That's what I'm trying to achieve, somehow figure out how many plants it would take to filter out 24 individual bare bottom 10gallon tanks all connected to a big sump type filter filled with mechanical, biological, and enough plants to take care of the nitrate production so that all I have to do is vac the bottoms of the tanks and top it off. Well, thats basically a small water change right there, but you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. Being able to harness the nutrients from the fish waste and grow plants with them, maybe even food, is such an intriguing concept.


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## rolly_169 (Jul 23, 2007)

StryfeMP said:


> That's what I'm trying to achieve, somehow figure out how many plants it would take to filter out 24 individual bare bottom 10gallon tanks all connected to a big sump type filter filled with mechanical, biological, and enough plants to take care of the nitrate production so that all I have to do is vac the bottoms of the tanks and top it off. Well, thats basically a small water change right there, but you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. Being able to harness the nutrients from the fish waste and grow plants with them, maybe even food, is such an intriguing concept.


a self sustaining aquarium is definately the ultimate goal


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

I went 17 days on 2 inches of coarse gravel and my nitrates leveled out at about 25 ppm and when I finally vacuumed there were plenty of nitrogen bubbles coming out where there was a lot of waste. The down side is the water became discolored and my fish seemed to eat less maybe because there was a lot of organic crap in the water that masked the smell of the pellets. I'm going back to two 50-60% water changes a week. If I wanted to get stubborn and see if I can go further I should get better filtration and plenty of activated carbon.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

well if your first tank was a sump with live plants you could not filter water before it get to the plant tank then filter to you second sump all the crap and food leftover would then get trapped in the first sump with the plants and with all that decay over time it would give the plants all they need to grow


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2008)

shanker said:


> I went 17 days on 2 inches of coarse gravel and my nitrates leveled out at about 25 ppm and *when I finally vacuumed there were plenty **of nitrogen bubbles coming out where there was a lot of waste.* The down side is the water became discolored and my fish seemed to eat less maybe because there was a lot of organic crap in the water that masked the smell of the pellets. I'm going back to two 50-60% water changes a week. If I wanted to get stubborn and see if I can go further I should get better filtration and plenty of activated carbon.


It wouldn't likely be Nitrogen gas (N2). Maybe it was Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from the metabolism of the bacteria growing in the sediment.


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

Bullsnake said:


> I went 17 days on 2 inches of coarse gravel and my nitrates leveled out at about 25 ppm and *when I finally vacuumed there were plenty **of nitrogen bubbles coming out where there was a lot of waste.* The down side is the water became discolored and my fish seemed to eat less maybe because there was a lot of organic crap in the water that masked the smell of the pellets. I'm going back to two 50-60% water changes a week. If I wanted to get stubborn and see if I can go further I should get better filtration and plenty of activated carbon.


It wouldn't likely be Nitrogen gas (N2). Maybe it was Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from the metabolism of the bacteria growing in the sediment.
[/quote]

My nitrate level is reaching a horizontal asymptote after that amount of time.


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