# What cohabs do you have going?



## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Id like to hear what you are currently attempting, how long you have had it going and if you have multiple cohabs running. I know recently there are several new geryi owners.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

I've had (not currently running by will get them again in time) a spilo cohab going and I had an attempt at a Geryi cohab.

Spilo tank I had for over 8 months with only a few problems. One fish needed to be removed. No fish was killed by attacks. Tank started with 10 fish, I removed one and it was kept with 9 fish. After that, the new owner lost one fish due to disease/health. Haven't heard from about the tank yet.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Brian,
I remember talking about your spilos and geryi when we met. I cant remember tho what happened with your geryi? Not the results you were expecting?


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## therizman1 (Jan 6, 2006)

I have a geryi shoal... picked them up about two weeks ago from Wes and no probs yet, but these fish have been kept together before without a prob, though they are now in a smaller tank.. a few little skirmishes here or there, but no body bites just a couple fin nips and them establishing their territories.

Also, I know I have a couple of Brians geryi... not sure where the other two came from, I think Wes.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Between 5 and 7 Geryi for something like 3 or 4 years...Im not really sure.
4 Irritans for 1.5 years.
Rhom and 5 silver dollars for about 6 or 7 months.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Between 5 and 7 Geryi for something like 3 or 4 years...Im not really sure.
> 4 Irritans for 1.5 years.
> Rhom and 5 silver dollars for about 6 or 7 months.


Ya I forgot a "multiple" for some of you


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> Brian,
> I remember talking about your spilos and geryi when we met. I cant remember tho what happened with your geryi? Not the results you were expecting?


I had 3 Geryi, but problem was one was smaller than the other two. The biggest one didn't care, but the middle fish decided to beat up the little guy. I was gone at work and came home to the little guy hiding and beat up in the corner. I removed him and put him back in the hospital tank. 2 days later he was gone.







So yes, it wasn't the results I was expecting. It was my first fish I've ever lost and well the expensive price (plus how hard it was to get geryi awhile ago) made me give up.

Therizman, your other two Geryi I believe came from Alan who probably got them from Ash. I am guessing here though.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

That's too bad, really. Its one of the burdens and PRICES for this type of doing. Some folks don't realize that when they see mixed species like this in dealer's tanks, they assume, hey I can do this at home or at someone's house...same thing. I wish you all success though. In my olden days, this would never have been encouraged. I still don't encourage it because of what you just learned. I still cringe when I read "successful". Yet, keeping these beasts together is a short term venue dictated by their hunger. I wish you all knew how often zoological parks have to replace their piranha exhibits because of this factor. Of course, the public only sees them swimming "together" not the future after effects.

But taming the beast can be an exciting venture, but alas expensive one too.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I also think it depends on the species. We all know that rhoms will not coexist with other rhoms...or anything for the most part. But I wouldnt put geryi in that class. Im not saying that it cant go bad at any moment...but that is the case with multiple pygo tanks as well. The risk with geryi is that one mistake and it will cost you the same as loosing entire tank of pygos....cash wise.
Personally I really only recognize same species tanks. I think trying different serrasalmus species in a tank is asking for trouble. Not that I havent done it with some....(just for you Frank)...success...there was a lot of thought behind it and it was only done with fish I had owned for long enough to have some insight into their individual personality.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 08:27 AM
> I also think it depends on the species. We all know that rhoms will not coexist with other rhoms...or anything for the most part. But I wouldnt put geryi in that class. Im not saying that it cant go bad at any moment...but that is the case with multiple pygo tanks as well. The risk with geryi is that one mistake and it will cost you the same as loosing entire tank of pygos....cash wise.
> Personally I really only recognize same species tanks. I think trying different serrasalmus species in a tank is asking for trouble. Not that I havent done it with some*....(just for you Frank)...success...there * was a lot of thought behind it and it was only done with fish I had owned for long enough to have some insight into their individual personality.


Success is a loose word in my opinion. But, one can indeed be successful in keeping Pygocentrus together as individual species. There is no argument there. As for S. geryi, S. maculatus, S. marginatus, these are species that are known to congregate together in small groups in the wild. So while there are indeed fin bites and mortalities, they can be kept together for some time. S. geryi, is one of the better known species now and one that I covered back in the late 90's early 2000 when it was being imported with great regularity. At that time, a fellow reported to me keeping them in groups since at juvenile size into full adulthood. So is that successful? In my opinion, yes but with guarded reservations. He kept them crowded together which colors it in my opinion. Just like those that constantly mess with the tank be it over adundant water changes or just disturbing them by being in a room. Those type of distractions can keep the fish from behaving normally and of course the results are colored as well. As for S. rhombeus, this species is being kept in groups at public aquariums, but as I stated above, the public doesn't know that they are replaced quite often when they feed on each other. You know as well as I do, that there will always be those that think they can change that if only...........and the beat goes on.

As for your S. irritans, I know you've been trying it for some time. I'm glad that it is working out for you. I'm also glad you are honest enough to show both sides (good and bad) on what can happen. That too me is far more important that just simply stating "I have successful cohabitation" as if it is a type marketing tool when we all know (the more experienced) that its is folly when dealing with majority of Serrasalmus species. It makes for an interesting read. I'm checking on S. irritans to find out how it is found in the wild (group or no group).

I think this forum, which has been around for some time now, is an excellent tool so long as EVERYONE remembers that the nature of the beast cannot be changed, altered to some degree, but not changed. They are afterall, animals.


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## Rick james (May 2, 2006)

I have 2 stripped loaches they are doing pretty well they are small fast and good hiders. some days i can't find them and i think they were eaten. but then they show up.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with you Frank..and I was only messing with you. I really dont know when to call a tank a success because tomorrow you may find a head on the sand....you just never know. I think there is a greater likelyhood with serrasalmus...and with certain species of serrasalmus there is a much greater chance of that happening.
Thats why I have never called my irritans tank a success...it is what it is. Im excited about it....and I really it seems to be working.....but you never know what tomorrow will bring.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I know you are messin' with me. You wouldn't be you unless you were.
















The general consensus among researchers is that S. irritans is solitary. But I have seen video (of wild) and they tend to hang around with P. cariba. S. medinai does the same thing in some regions.

Anyway, I wrote to Antonio and will find out his thoughts on this. I suspect we will find out that it does indeed congregate in small groups....but I could be wrong.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

It could also be a maturity issue where the juvies hang together for protection...and then they split up as adults. That could explain why I have had some success with them as juvies where others have totally failed when introducing adults together.

This is part of the reason why I find this tank so interesting.....the unknown!


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

One 4 inch piraya and two 3 to 3.5 inch sanchezi's also have a channa guacha with a dovii at the moment.Thats all,and please no flaming me I get enough as it is!!!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> AKSkirmish Posted Today, 10:53 AM
> One 4 inch piraya and two 3 to 3.5 inch sanchezi's also have a channa guacha with a dovii at the moment.Thats all,and please no flaming me I get enough as it is!!!


I have no problems with what you feed your piraya.


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## colt (Apr 16, 2006)

hastatus said:


> > AKSkirmish Posted Today, 10:53 AM
> > One 4 inch piraya and two 3 to 3.5 inch sanchezi's also have a channa guacha with a dovii at the moment.Thats all,and please no flaming me I get enough as it is!!!
> 
> 
> I have no problems with what you feed your piraya.:laugh:


That is an odd mix...I'd be too afraid of losing either species of the piranhas.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> It could also be a maturity issue where the juvies hang together for protection...and then they split up as adults. That could explain why I have had some success with them as juvies where others have totally failed when introducing adults together.
> 
> This is part of the reason why I find this tank so interesting.....the unknown!


except several other people tried to keep the little ones together also, w/o any sucess.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> except several other people tried to keep the little ones together also, w/o any sucess.


Hey...I never said I knew all the answers!!!









It must be my amazing fish keeping skills and my "no schedule" feeding schedule!!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 08:21 PM
> QUOTE(Ex0dus @ May 19 2006, 08:01 PM)
> 
> except several other people tried to keep the little ones together also, w/o any sucess.
> ...


Or just plain blind luck.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 08:21 PM
> > It must be my amazing fish keeping skills and my "no schedule" feeding schedule!!
> 
> 
> Or just plain blind luck.


Thanks Frank


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > AKSkirmish Posted Today, 10:53 AM
> > One 4 inch piraya and two 3 to 3.5 inch sanchezi's also have a channa guacha with a dovii at the moment.Thats all,and please no flaming me I get enough as it is!!!
> 
> 
> I have no problems with what you feed your piraya.:laugh:


That is an odd mix...I'd be too afraid of losing either species of the piranhas.
[/quote]

It was not my choice to house them together,but thats the way the ended up.







It's not the cost that bother's me,It will be the waste of a good fish either way


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

Ok, I've stayed away from this for awhile now...basically because a lot of what I read in many of these forums is very mean, rude, condescending, arrogant, etc. With that said...here goes.

I currently have (3) piraya, (2) super reds, (1) red, and (1) spilo in one unidvided tank. The pygos are all between 3 - 4" in length. The Spilo is about 1.5 - 2" in length. This experiement has been going on for 4+ days now. The spilo is a little bastard of a terror when it comes to chasing feeders around my tank. And when one of my pygos catches a feeder that the group can get down on, the spilo is there for his share. When I walk in the room, they all hide under the same piece of driftwood that bridges over two big rocks.

Of course, I am not, nor will I ever consider this a success. Four days isnt shxt, and I know that. When I bought the Spilo, it was with the intention of keeping him with my Pygos for as long as possible until they took him out (which is how I assumed it would happen, when and if it does). As I watch him though, his personality is really starting to grow on me. I am starting to consider getting a lil tank just for him in case anything goes down when I'm not around.

This temporary co-hab has got me thinking though...given my mix of fish, what would be MOST likely to happen? Are serras considered to be the aggressors since they are strictly solo? Are pygos chill with other Ps until they have to defend themselves? Or are these character assumptions completely inaccurate? If the spilo turned on one of my pygos, would the other pygos come to his aid? Or would they even give a second glance? Just some things Ive been pondering. I know fish are wild and unpredictable, I was just curious if any one scenario was more likely than the others.

Sincerely,

Tom


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

This page might give you an idea what might happen.

It's not carved in stone, but seems to be the trend when mixing species.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

As for S. irritans: According to Antonio:



> As I know they form schools when young. But juveniles and adults
> are very territorial.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

MOD FIGHT!!!!!!

when i get thee money and experience and a bigger tank i hope to shoal somehting like macaltus or even gery.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

hastatus said:


> This temporary co-hab has got me thinking though...given my mix of fish, *what would be MOST likely to happen?* Are serras considered to be the aggressors since they are strictly solo? Are pygos chill with other Ps until they have to defend themselves? Or are these character assumptions completely inaccurate? If the spilo turned on one of my pygos, would the other pygos come to his aid? Or would they even give a second glance? Just some things Ive been pondering. I know fish are wild and unpredictable, I was just curious if any one scenario was more likely than the others.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Tom


I would predict you will see fin nipps on the pygos...until they eat the spilo. At that size...that little spilo (probably a maculatus) will be very parasitic.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Frank knows how I feel about him


Watch that STUD, don't want folks to get the wrong idea.


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## Gigante Pirana (Apr 23, 2004)

hastatus said:


> > Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 08:27 AM
> > I also think it depends on the species. We all know that rhoms will not coexist with other rhoms...or anything for the most part. But I wouldnt put geryi in that class. Im not saying that it cant go bad at any moment...but that is the case with multiple pygo tanks as well. The risk with geryi is that one mistake and it will cost you the same as loosing entire tank of pygos....cash wise.
> > Personally I really only recognize same species tanks. I think trying different serrasalmus species in a tank is asking for trouble. Not that I havent done it with some*....(just for you Frank)...success...there * was a lot of thought behind it and it was only done with fish I had owned for long enough to have some insight into their individual personality.
> 
> ...


I remember that geryi tank. The guy worked for Metro or global or something on the east Coast. I wondered what he did with the fish eventually.
Anyway, Frank is there still a public zoo out there that still has rhoms together? I would like to visit that Zoo and see what it is all about! I've tried all kinds of co-habs in my 500 gallon before before for as long as I had the tank which was 6 to 7 years and mostly with various sized rhoms. Needless to say it never worked out!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The New England Aquarium has a few grouped together, but Scott Dowd is always looking for replacements. I'm sure there are others, but this one is fresh in my mind as Scott and I have talked about it many times in the past. You might look for their web site and see if it is mentioned or at least you can send an email to find out about their current exhibits.


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## JustinRice (Feb 24, 2005)

So how big of an aquarium would you guys think is needed to cohab rhoms and other P's Successfully? And is the only way for this to be successful is to have a large enough aquarium for the P's to ahve a successful lifecycle? Cause obviously they live in the same river in the wild!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> JustinRice Posted Today, 05:01 AM
> So how big of an aquarium would you guys think is needed to cohab rhoms and other P's Successfully? *And is the only way for this to be successful is to have a large enough aquarium for the P's to ahve a successful lifecycle? Cause obviously they live in the same river in the wild! *


You answered your own question.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > Frank knows how I feel about him
> 
> 
> Watch that STUD, don't want folks to get the wrong idea.


<:insert hot mod sex smiley here:>


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## bmpower007 (Feb 11, 2005)

I have a group of geryi's as of now, everything seems to be ok but I still have that thought in my head what if I wake up next morning and see one of them gone so its a risk people take...Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't I still don't think its a good idea to mix serra's species or mixed pygo species but thats just me.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

bmpower007 said:


> I have a group of geryi's as of now, everything seems to be ok but I still have that thought in my head what if I wake up next morning and see one of them gone so its a risk people take...Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't I still don't think its a good idea to mix serra's species or mixed pygo species but thats just me.


ya, i think the same with mixed pygo.
Im not against it, just 'not with it'. (no offence to anyone that has)

its just that any of geus pygocentrus group ever meet in the wild.


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

I currently have My manny housing with a 3-4" red devil, 6-7" bushynose pleco and raphael catfish 

















its strange my manny hasn't taken him out yet and they've been in the tank for 1 1/2 month now


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

fliptasciouz said:


> I currently have My manny housing with a 3-4" red devil, 6-7" bushynose pleco and raphael catfish
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BFF.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

i will be experimenting with a 3x spilo/mac shoal in a 75 when the arrive from TFD tomorrow. ive read up on B_ack's threads about his personal experience and also found the seller i am getting them from has been keeping 5 in a 50 breeder for a long time with no problems either.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Paul, feel free to PM or IM me any questions that you have. I talked with the current owner of my macs (or spilos) and he has them in a 300 gallon tank with red bellies. No losses.

Mashunter also has a tank of 10 macs going too.


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## GODS1KID (Jan 12, 2006)

I HAVE 6 REDS, 2 GIANT DANIO'S AND ONE PLECO. IF THEY GET REALLY HUNGRY THEY MESS WITH THE PLECO. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THREE MONTHS.


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## TFMBIGDOG99 (Mar 19, 2006)

Your manuelli is absolutely beautiful, holy crap.


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