# Starting A Piranha Tank....



## NavyGal77 (Sep 20, 2010)

Good Afternoon All,

Not sure how to word this, and sorry if it is a bit long..

My boyfriend would like to start a piranha tank and I am not sure where to start. I like to resreach and plan ahead, not just dive in. We have had very good results with regular community fish, African and S. American Cichlids, but I have no experiance with the piranha tank. First, I have done the reserch and they are legal in MI so that takes away one factor that was holding me back. We have a 90 gallon tank with a filter rated (I know that all filters say one thing but do another) for a 100 gallon tank. So I think that fltration is somewhat covered. Now the decor is a small gravel with large rocks (slate, holey rock, and a few others) cave. I figure if thing get overly terrorral I can redo the rocks. I was figuring that 5 Redbellies could live as peacefully as they can in this environment. With a feeding schedule of 50 feeder fish twice a month, unccoked shrimp once a month, pellets (not sure what type) daily, and some veggies everyother day. Also, there will be weekly 25% water changes with a 6 week 50% water change.

I guess my question is: Is this do able and will I have happy fish? Please feel free to pick apart as you see fit. I just want to make sure that I am doing this right and not have any deaths could have been prevented.

Sorry about the schedule, but that is how I run my household from children to my Beardies.

Thank you in advance for any information you can give me.

Stacy


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Sounds good. Might wanna upgrade to another filter down the road as they grow more. Also the feeders are questionable, most will frown on it.I say research about feeders n decide for yourself. Variety is the key with food.don't forget silversides, nightcrawlers,n couple different kinds of pellets.krill, beefheart, n while small bloodworms, brine shrimp ect. Welcome aboard. Tons of info here for you n yours. Can't wait to see em. GL


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## sick of chiclids (May 25, 2010)

I to would advise against live feeders. 5-6 juvie fish would be ok to start, but you'll have to thin out down to 3ish before long. These guys grow really fast. As far as filtration goes I aggree with Bruner. A 100g filter will be fine for now, but once they grow a bit you'll want at least double the tank size. Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Idk bout that. The rule I always heard was 1 or 5 or more.I'd start with 7-8 to end up with your 5.IMO 5 in a 90gal is ok. With only 3 there's probably gonna be problems. With a added filter down the road n weekly waterchanges n removing any n all leftover food 5 will be fine.IMO anyhow. N I'm not sayn no to feeders either.I say research bout feeders n decide for yourself. N one last thing, might research bout gold macs instead of rbp.don't get me wrong I have n love rbp but macs are what most noobs to piranha think rbp are.rbp can be shy n skittish where as macs are bold n aggressive.n they're not very much more exspensive.n they're very goregous fish(rbp are also).


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## NavyGal77 (Sep 20, 2010)

Thank you both on you input. I will diffently get another filter for the tank. And will do more reserch on the live fish. As I am not getting the fish for entertainment. I am getting them for looks.

Stacy


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

NavyGal77 said:


> Good Afternoon All,
> 
> Not sure how to word this, and sorry if it is a bit long..
> 
> ...


Planning ahead is always a good idea...









5 natts would be fine in a 90 for quite some time... I'd probably start out with a few more tho -- it keeps things entertaining while they're small so you're not looking at an empty tank and helps to cover losses.

Decor is completely up to you, so if you like the gravel and rocks you have, go ahead and keep em.

As for filtration, you will probably be OK with the filter you have (kinda hard to say for sure without knowing exactly what it is) while they are small, but even 5 sub-adult natts will be quite a bio-load, so an additional filter will probably be needed down the road. With that bio-load, you also will probably need to up the volume and/or frequency of your water changes -- 25-30% once a week will work OK in the beginning, but keep an eye on your nitrate levels as they grow and adjust accordingly, 50% weekly water changes or 2x 25% water changes per week are pretty common for piranhas.

The diet you have planned sounds good except for the feeder fish -- feel free to research all you want, but the risk of disease and parasites as well as the high cost (over time - when looking at the cost of the feeders and the cost of running the quarantine tank) and incredibly low nutritional value of rosey reds, comet goldfish, etc. are what cause the large majority of hobbyists to avoid them completely. I'd recommend sticking to raw shrimp, tilapia, or catfish along with pellets as the main staple of their diet, veggies can definitely be fed if they'll eat them.


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## Sacrifice (Sep 24, 2006)

Welcome to P-Fury. You're definitely starting in the right direction, but IMO you're not spot on just yet.

Your filtration should be ok for about the next 6 months. (Assuming that your starting with 1" Reds)

However the diet that you have planned is a bit off. IMO even if you solely fed feeders to them I think that 50 would be WAY too many for a month, plus you make it sound like you're gonna put all 50 in at once. When they are young you can feed a few times a day, but in just a few short months you should space your feedings out to at least every other day IMO. I personally would only suggest a few (3-5) feeders a month. Stick to shrimp, tilapia and pellets as a staple diet if you can. Most ppl on here don't feed veggies so I'd stay away from that.

Do a little more research before diving in just yet. These fish are completely different then keeping your typical cichlids. As you can see the feeding is already different.

Good Luck and don't be afraid to ask any questions that you may have.


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## Murphy18 (Oct 17, 2008)

Welcome abord Stacy







Glad you're starting the piranha keeping hobby.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

NavyGal77 said:


> I like to resreach and plan ahead, not just dive in.*First good move* We have had very good results with regular community fish, African and S. American Cichlids, but I have no experiance with the piranha tank. First, I have done the reserch and they are legal in MI so that takes away one factor that was holding me back. We have a 90 gallon tank with a filter rated (I know that all filters say one thing but do another) for a 100 gallon tank. So I think that fltration is somewhat covered.* to me that seems under filterd. When i had a shoal in my 125 i had 2 cannister filters rated for about 160g each (eheim 2217 and rena xp3) What brand and model is the filter? Some brands are alot better then others*Now the decor is a small gravel with large rocks (slate, holey rock, and a few others) cave. I figure if thing get overly terrorral I can redo the rocks. *Redoing could make being territorial worse too* I was figuring that 5 Redbellies could live as peacefully as they can in this environment. With a feeding schedule of 50 feeder fish twice a month, unccoked shrimp once a month, pellets (not sure what type) daily, and some veggies everyother day. Also, there will be weekly 25% water changes with a 6 week 50% water change.*Cut out the feeder fish and do shrimp ,pellets, talapia, silversides/smelt... Soaking in a vitament supplement is even better,. I dont know if you could even get them on veggies but with pellets and fish fillets they will be fine.*


1) upgrade filtration
2) cut out feeders for better diet

You should be fien with 5 adults but you will want good filtration. Id also suggest buying a couple extra if your gettign babies as its not uncommon for babies to cannibilize eachother


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## NavyGal77 (Sep 20, 2010)

I would like to say Thank you all for your replies and a great website. I have done some more research and this is my new thinking on the tank and food list/schedule.

On payday I will will be purching another filter (rated for 100 gallons) to add with the one that is already present. The water changes I will do weekly at 25% (with a 50% at 6 weeks) with testing for ammonia and nItrates every other day and act accordingly per the test results. I have the drops and test tube tester NOT the strips, as I have learned they are not accurate and unreliable.

Now for the feeding schedule. I was looking at something more like this now.
Mon: Tiliapi
Tue: Pellets 
Wed: Cod
Thr: Pellets
Fri: Beef Heart
Sat/Sun: A treat type of day.

Once a month: 7 Feeders (as a treat)
Twice a Month: Shrimp (uncooked and unpeeled)
On days with pellets mix it between Krill, Night Crawler, Brine Shimp, Gut-Load Crickets, and Gut-Loaded Superworms.

I know that leeches were mentioned, but I can't bring myself to touch thoses. Sorry.

One addition question that I have thought about (tryed finding the answer). If I start out with 5 and (hopefully not) but some perish can i add more or am I just left with what is in the tank? I like my schooling fish is odd numbers. OCD with stuff like that. LOL.

I know that I will probably make a few mistakes, but I only want the small one to happen.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

I wouldn't feed beefheart once a week... mammalian meat shouldn't make up a significant portion of their diet. In your schedule, I would flip shrimp and beefheart around and feed shrimp once a week and beefheart a couple times a month, if at all.

You shouldn't need to test your water that often once the tank is established, once a week tops should be good for ammonia & nitrite unless you notice a problem, then you can test your nitrates before your water changes each week to see where they are at -- 25% weekly water changes should work in the beginning, but once you start to notice those nitrate levels creeping up by the end of the week, you should adjust accordingly.

It would be helpful to post what kind of filter you have and what kind you are looking at just to make sure you are going in the right direction.


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## NavyGal77 (Sep 20, 2010)

I will post the filter type when i get home from work. And will swap the beef heart out and replace it for the shimp. I just want to have balanced out meals. As I have a tight feeding schedule with my other fish, Beardies, turtle. Poster board with color coded schedules. It helps to fit everything I need to do between work and family!

Thanks again.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

That's awesome... Just keep in mind that as your fish get bigger, they won't need to be fed near as often. Every day or even a couple times a day helps to keep things calm in the beginning, but you can work towards a couple feedings a week once they get bigger.


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## Criley (Jun 2, 2010)

NavyGal77 said:


> Good Afternoon All,
> 
> Not sure how to word this, and sorry if it is a bit long..
> 
> ...


Greetings and welcome to P-Fury. My first concern would be what type of filter is it that your using? You typically want a filter rated for much much more than it says on the box for a group of RBP's. Personally I have a Rena XP4 rated for I think 325 gallons and a AC110 rated for something over 100 gallons both running on my tank. Any cannister filter with enough bio media to hold their bio load should do well though. I have even heard of people just running 2 AC110 HOB's on a 90g with rbps. 
Secondly, I wouldnt keep the feeder fish as a scheduled item on your food list, however i personally do give my P's feeders after quarantining them and feeding them good foods for a week or two. 
Other than that... Make sure you have a heater rated for your tank size.... and just in my experience I lost no juvi's to cannibilism. I believe this was because of the severity of overcrowding of both p's and the fake plants/deco in my tank that kept them from seeing eachother all the time. 
best of luck
oh yeah i didnt read below your original post before posting


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

NavyGal77 said:


> I would like to say Thank you all for your replies and a great website. I have done some more research and this is my new thinking on the tank and food list/schedule.
> 
> On payday I will will be purching another filter (rated for 100 gallons) to add with the one that is already present. The water changes I will do weekly at 25% (with a 50% at 6 weeks) with testing for ammonia and nItrates every other day and act accordingly per the test results. I have the drops and test tube tester NOT the strips, as I have learned they are not accurate and unreliable.id suggest a good cannister filter like eheim 2217 or rena xp3. If you get babies you wont need it right away so you have some time to save soem money as good filters are not cheap
> 
> ...


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

feeder fish is a bad decision. It only takes 1 feeder to take down your piranha... Why are you only feeding shrimp once a month? Shrimp and other white meats should be the feeding staple. The best idea is to stuff the meat with the pellets. Most people dont feed just straight pellets... Great idea on the filters! There carnivorous and if it were me id rather eat shrimp and meats than pellet food... Good luck


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## banshee42096 (Apr 29, 2010)

i have only 2 ac110s on my 125 with 10 rbs that are bigger than fyour hands and they keep up just fine.i find with my red and golds the feeders keep them occupied more so theres less loss of piranha. i feed them twice a day pellets,krill,brine shrimp yes the eat it before its dethaws,crayfish,ghost shrimp,ect.i would buy more than five you most likely will lose a couple or more.


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## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

Enough with the arguing over feeder fish guys damn its on every post in here lately. If you feel the need to feed live feeders I highly recomend raising your own. Some people rasie convict cichlids as they breed like rabbits. I did this once but ended up removing them because even at 1" the cichlids started terrorizing my 8" reds. The feeders you get at the pet store may contain pirasites or disease. That in itself is the main reason I do not feed live feeders from pet stores. Nothing to do with the thimanese or what ever gold fish contain that can slow the piranhas growth rate. I highly recomend hakari gold pellets the one in the red bag not the green. Mine for some reason will not eat the green type. They go ballistic over the red stuff though. I feed mainly the pellets but also do shrimp, scallops, talapia whole silversides or any other white meat fish.
For filtration if you like canister filters I recomend Eheim filters. I run two eheim 2217s on my 125 gallon tank and each is rated for 160 gallons. The decorations you put in your tank just be sure there are no points or sharp edges. Pygos freak out relatively easily and will ram themselves into any decore you have. I would also say try out real plants if you dont already grow them. ITs easy and very beneficial to the tank. Oh and welcome to P-fury.


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## BIG GAME (Jul 31, 2010)

This topic has helped also me. Thanks guys!


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## sick of chiclids (May 25, 2010)

Seriously people. Enough with the feeder debate. (navygal, Bruner warned you about this lol). This girl and her bf are trying to get advice on a new tank. We have turned it into our own feeder debate. If you want to debate feeders, there is a section on this site for feeding and nutrition. There is a button labeled "start new topic"… click it. Navygal, if your still coming to this site (and I hope you are). Not all threads take this direction. Start a new thread and stick around. You'll learn what you need to know. Feel free to ask whatever questions you want.


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## T-wag (May 21, 2009)

sick of chiclids said:


> Seriously people. Enough with the feeder debate. (navygal, Bruner warned you about this lol). This girl and her bf are trying to get advice on a new tank. We have turned it into our own feeder debate. If you want to debate feeders, there is a section on this site for feeding and nutrition. There is a button labeled "start new topic"&#8230; click it. Navygal, if your still coming to this site (and I hope you are). *Not all threads take this direction*. Start a new thread and stick around. You'll learn what you need to know. Feel free to ask whatever questions you want.


but most do









no but seriously...if your gonna be keeping piranhas then i would recommend just taking a look through the forum and just reading up on it.....i learned everything i know from piranha fury and i can pretty much say if there is one subject that i really know my sh*t on....its piranha's


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

The feeder debate has been moved to this thread...

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/194232-feeder-debate-from-piranha-discussion/

Keep this topic on track from now on.


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## NavyGal77 (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm still here. I understand that everyone does everything a bit differently.

Here is the information that you all asked for to futher help me. The filter that I have is the Marineland Penguin Bio-wheel 330 (I will be picking up another filter shortly). As far as the heaters I have two 250 wyatt heaters set at 79F. These are what I was using for this tank previously. The pirahnas are 1 inch that we are looking at (at the LFS). As far as feeding them, I have looked at the diffrent Asian stores and found almost everything that I have been reading on this site. I am taking all replies and past post on this subject in to concideration as I have tweecked and re-tweecked a feeding schedle. I think that I have came up with a decent "menu" for them. But once I get the pirinha and see what they will and won't eat, I will tweeck it some more. But I will be doing different types of food. As I know that I wouldn't be eating the same thing every day.

Thank you all again for the vauliable information on this site!


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

...Navygal77!...Hope everything works out well with you!..


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## sick of chiclids (May 25, 2010)

Just a suggestion. You won't have to worry about it for a while with fish that small, but if you have glass heaters I would upgrade to titanium. They seem to like to bump it and I can see it cracking when the get bigger. Just a thought.


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