# How necessary is cycling?



## eddy3 (Jan 3, 2006)

How necessary is the bacteria cycling stage? I plan on getting a 55gallon tank and getting three 1" baby Reds in it. Will they survive? I dont wanna go threw 3 weeks of cycling. Any personal experiances?


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

I personally do not cycle any of my tanks and none of my fish die. Others will disagree, but I'm talking from experience.

BTW-3x1" is not going to put a bio load in a 55g.


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

You should definitely do it man!!!!
They may survive (mine did) but that was when I didnt know much about P's...

Anyways I 100% recommend it! You will be happy you did.
If you don't your P's could die during the cycle since they are small and more vulnerable to disease at that age. If they don't die, the stress will be more than enough to cause some sort of health problem I would assume.

It's only 3 weeks man, then you don't have to do it again..I say it's definitley worth the time if you care about your fish


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

rchan11 said:


> I personally do not cycle any of my tanks and none of my fish die. Others will disagree, but I'm talking from experience.
> 
> BTW-3x1" is not going to put a bio load in a 55g.


A tank will cycle whether you want it to or not once you add waste. Even "cycled" tanks can under go another cycling if you add too many fish or food at one time. The idea is not to expose your fish to the possibly dangerously high levels of ammonia, or worse, nitrite. The danger all depends on your stocking, your pH, your filtration, and the number of live plants you have. I have never had any problems cycling a planted tank filled with a reasonable amount of fish, but I would never just add fish into a new tank unless it was an emergency (experienced fish keepers with established tanks have a few tricks to get around this safely). Three 1" RBP's in a 55 should be safe if you know what you are doing, but there is a reason why cycling is recommended.


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## Piraya33 (May 26, 2005)

Just make sure that if you are using tap water to add a water conditioner like EasyBalance. That is what I use and I have never had a problem yet. Knock on wood. Good luck and keep us updated.


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

well i never properly cycled my tank and its been 4 months now and i am finaly getting it under control, i got 6 1" in a 55


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Piraya33 said:


> Just make sure that if you are using tap water to add a water conditioner like EasyBalance. That is what I use and I have never had a problem yet. Knock on wood. Good luck and keep us updated.


Piraya33
did mean Tetra's AquaSafe which is a conditioner for metal ions, chlorine and chloramine (only in US market area), but not EasyBalance which is not a conditioner.

Regards,


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

I never cycle my tanks but that's just me. And only because I usually usually buy fish right as I'm ready to set up the tank as I'm usually eager to get whatever fish I'm stocking it with. Not saying you shouldn't do it. Do what you want. The "safe" way is to cycle it first, but I personally have never had a death from not cycling but that's probably because most of the fish I have are "hardy" fish.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

eddy3,

Do not hurry, you are dealing with living animals.

All the aquariums get cycled by themselves somehow. This means that nitrifying bacteria (Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter) start multiplying when ammonia or ammonium is produced in the aquarium. And it is produced the moment there is something living.

BUT!
A special cycling period (usually about 4 weeks) is needed before main fishes are introduced. This is very important if many small or few big carnivores are introduced and feeded with flesh. Because now the amount of produced ammonia/ammonium is so great that it takes time until the tank has enough bacteria to cope with it.
Especially, even slight ammonia (and nitrite) levels are harmful for fishes and may cause burns, decreased ability to breath or even death.

Regards,


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## tnpeter (Dec 17, 2005)

never cycled, make sure u get some live plants and and water condtioner..

when i got my rbp i tossed it in with out a cycled tank..no problems, had some flashing but nothing major...just did weekly water changes and its all good


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## Zirca (Jan 21, 2006)

I wasn't so lucky.

All 6 of my baby rbp's died during the cycling of my 55gal.

Did all the tests. Most died during the ammonia spike, the rest during the nitrite spike. I'm still waiting for my tank to cycle it's been a month.

*How long does it take for the nitrite spike to lower?* It's currently at 2.0ppm and it hasn't budged for a week. Ammonia is currenlty 0. I have no fish in the tank now.

I'd wait,
Dan


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

If you feed heavy and don't do water changes, then you have problems. If you do water changes you really don't need to cycle as you'll be taking out excess ammonia by changing the water. Your tank will eventually cycle anyway, it'll just take more time. I don't cycle when I start a new tank but I do water changes often usually 20% 2x a week for the first couple of months and don't pound food to the fish. Never lost a fish doing that.


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## tpeezy (Jan 20, 2006)

i didn't cycle.
i set up my 55 gallon tank in 1 day, added water the next, turned on the brand new filter that day, and added 4 molly's that same day. 3-4 days i added 8 baby red's and took out the molly's. they're growing just fine and never even seemed stressed


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## eddy3 (Jan 3, 2006)

Wow you guys are great! loads of info I think iam gonna not cycle and do lots of water changes(is to much a bad thing) Thanks guys


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## kingsnar (Nov 17, 2005)

yes too many watger changes can be bad, but this could be flexible considering your cycling with fish. Small frequent water changes are ok but anything more than 25% will cause pH swings, temp changes and a million other things. I cant reccomend how many/how often/how much b/c ive never cycled with fish, but im really disappointed to hear that your not doing it the fishless way


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## Exodon_Tetra (May 10, 2005)

eddy3 said:


> Wow you guys are great! loads of info I think iam gonna not cycle and do lots of water changes(is to much a bad thing) Thanks guys


Yea, would you like your fishes swimming in their own waste and breathing hard because of that? They MIGHT survive the torment for 6 weeks and that is a big might..That is a non cycled tank..In an uncylce tank, your piranhas could easily catch diseases such as Ich, bacterial infections, fungus..Most people who do not cycle their tanks and who dont own water test kits are actually people who lack knowledge of good water chemistry and the toxic effects of ammonia and nitrite poisoning and they are not seasoned fish keepers..A person would be out of their mind to put a 14 inch Black Piranha in a uncycled tank.

It is written that changing water a lot prolongs the cycle so you would have to wait a lot longer when your ammonia and nitrite hits 0, that is when your fishes are not swimming in their own waste...

If a person does not know about what a working bio filter is and cycling, they will not know know why their piranhas are getting diseases or why they are dying...You should read about ammonia and nitrite poisoning and get a water test kit..

But yes, I know you cannot wait to get your Ps..


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

eddy3 said:


> Wow you guys are great! loads of info I think iam gonna not cycle and do lots of water changes(is to much a bad thing) Thanks guys


This is the problem with posts such as posted in this thread: personal experience is not the same as the preferered method of taking care of things, and - like in this case - it sends out a very bad, even dangerous message. People should hand out responsible and sensible advice or nothing at all - the last thing people should do is sharing own experiences based on bad practices, and post them up as advice to newcomers to the hobby. Again, very dangerous stuff...

It's very simple: if you care about your fish, you should cycle your tank. In fact, if you don't care and don't bother to cycle your tank, imo. you shouldn't keep fish to begin with. If you let fish live in an uncycled tank, it's similar to locking up humans in a chamber filled with toxic fumes or gasses - you don't do such things intentionally!

Yes, many (intentional or unintentional) have kept fish in uncycled tanks, and yes, many fish may survive through the cycle, but is that enough justification to do it yourself? I think not! No one who has done so knows the long-term effects on their fish: maybe they have cut the life expectancy of their fish in half, reduced the immuun system radically, made the fish chronically susceptible to certain diseases or conditions, caused invisible damage to internal organs, or caused severe damage/stress to their fish in other ways - is that something you want to do intentionally? Ask yourself that question and think about it hard before going to the pet store to buy your fish - if you don't want to 'play' according to a few basic rules each and every responsible fish keeper does listen to, and all fish keepers should listen to, you may reconsider whether you have chosen the right pets.
One more reason to cycle your tank: if you start off the wrong way, it's guaranteed you _will_ run into problems in the future, problems that heavily impact the enjoyment this hobby can offer you.

Not to bash or sound harsh, but that's how I see things...


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## Eating Machine (Jan 27, 2006)

Bawb2u said:


> If you do water changes you really don't need to cycle as you'll be taking out excess ammonia by changing the water..


Yes.

It certainly isbest if you wait til the tank cycles, if at all possible.

If its not possible, you can do more frequent water changes until the bacteria build up.


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## molsonian (Nov 12, 2005)

wow i cant believe the amount of people that dont cycle...


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## Dialbomb (Dec 20, 2005)

Guys i don't think i did cycle my tank.. when i first thought that everything was already cycled... mistake... it really was not... I actualy have now cloudy water... not too bad... but i was wondering if that's due to cycling process? can anyone give me a hand?

Thanks


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

The BIG problem with not cycling your system, like others have stated, is exposing your fish to high doses of ammonia and nitrites.

Alot of you are saying "Well I didnt cycle and my fish are fine". Well yea, that is totally possible.

BUT the LONG TERM damage is what is most concerning to myself, and many other fishkeepers. It is my firm belief, that these highly toxic exposures are a very key component to shortened lifespan, and health issues later in life.

Cycling is easy, and it just takes some patience. Cycling lays the groundwork for a healthy and happy fish. Cycling when combined with water maintainance and proper nutrition are the best possible ways to keep healthy fish and ensure a long rewarding hobby for the fishkeeper.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

if you're impatient in anyway, then you are not responsible enough to own fish. you can't NOT cycle a tank, when you put fish in it, the cycle starts. its nature. basically, the aquarium is the fishes toilet, when it pisses and shits, that creates ammonia. ammonia is harmful to fish, i mean, how would you like to piss and sh*t in a toilet, and then be given a permanent swirley? the presence of ammonia causes bacteria to grow which will eat the ammonia and turn it into nitrite, which is ALSO harmful to fish, after that stage, nitrate is produced by more bacteria and the ammonia production of your fish can't keep up with the bacteria which is eating it. you can't not cycle your tank, it does it wether you like it or not. its irresponsible of you to buy fish and put them in an uncycled tank when you dont know what you're doing. you should read up on how to properly cycle a tank.

the tank is going to cycle one way or another, there are two ways to do it, you can let it cycle with your fish inside, poisoning your fish and damaging their gills, or you can help the cycle along by keeping the paremeters in check and doing everything right so as to not expose your fish to a great deal of toxins. i never cycle my tank before putting fish in, however, i take a large cannister filter which is packed with media from a cycled tank, and put it on the new tank as soon as i put the fish in. the bacteria will take care of the tank over about a weeks time, but a full cycle will occur in about 2-3 days.


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## Eating Machine (Jan 27, 2006)

I think it all boils down to this:

Either you are so impatient and _can't wait _ to get your fish, that you will take a chance and put your fish through the detrimental effects of ammonia and nitirite until the tank cycles.......

Or you _can_ you wait, for the good of the fish, and make sure your tank is fully ready, ensuring that they won't be exposed to the detirmental effects of ammonia and nitirite until the tank cycles.......

I guess I fall somewhere in between.....


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

add Cycle and some live plants. that should help.


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## tnpeter (Dec 17, 2005)

well, iam not sure if this falls for fish to but humans when there younger like when kids and what not get sick more they imune system gets better, so when ur fish are exposed to slightly more ammoina and what not wouldnt just make ur fish stronger....iam talking to a degree here


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

tnpeter said:


> well, iam not sure if this falls for fish to but humans when there younger like when kids and what not get sick more they imune system gets better, so when ur fish are exposed to slightly more ammoina and what not wouldnt just make ur fish stronger....iam talking to a degree here


Ammonia and nitrItes aren't diseases a fish can build up an immuun system against. You compare it to Sarin gas, or any other toxin humans are rightfully affraid of - if a human being survives such a poisoning, it is no less protected against or resistant to that substance than prior to the poisoning. In fact, it only may have caused damage to certain organs, damage that in the short or long run may lead to serious health issues. Same goes when exposing fish to high concentrations of ammonia or nitrItes.


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## p's (Feb 3, 2006)

Judazzz said:


> well, iam not sure if this falls for fish to but humans when there younger like when kids and what not get sick more they imune system gets better, so when ur fish are exposed to slightly more ammoina and what not wouldnt just make ur fish stronger....iam talking to a degree here


Ammonia and nitrItes aren't diseases a fish can build up an immuun system against. You compare it to Sarin gas, or any other toxin humans are rightfully affraid of - if a human being survives such a poisoning, it is no less protected against or resistant to that substance than prior to the poisoning. In fact, it only may have caused damage to certain organs, damage that in the short or long run may lead to serious health issues. Same goes when exposing fish to high concentrations of ammonia or nitrItes.
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what if example i used a purified water is it ok?


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## deezdrama (Jul 9, 2005)

LOL .......this is the funniest post yet/

you need to cycle your tank.........

the best way around this is to add a handfull of cycled established gravel from a established tank and add it to your gravel - and - 
add a nice size piece of established filter media to your filter and 
within a week your tank could be cycled as long as its not a huge bio-load..........make sure your water is conditioned!


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

i also dont cycle my tanks and have never had fish die as a result. the most i do is let it sit over night to remove the chlorine from the water and thats it. im too impatient and luckily the fish have never had to pay the price for me being impatient


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

p said:


> well, iam not sure if this falls for fish to but humans when there younger like when kids and what not get sick more they imune system gets better, so when ur fish are exposed to slightly more ammoina and what not wouldnt just make ur fish stronger....iam talking to a degree here


Ammonia and nitrItes aren't diseases a fish can build up an immuun system against. You compare it to Sarin gas, or any other toxin humans are rightfully affraid of - if a human being survives such a poisoning, it is no less protected against or resistant to that substance than prior to the poisoning. In fact, it only may have caused damage to certain organs, damage that in the short or long run may lead to serious health issues. Same goes when exposing fish to high concentrations of ammonia or nitrItes.
[/quote]

what if example i used a purified water is it ok?
[/quote]
Ammonia and nitrIte are bad no matter what type of water you use. And regardless of what type of water you use, a tank needs to cycle before fish can safely be released - ammonia and nitrIte spikes will occur during _every_ cycling process.


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## spoondc2 (Oct 29, 2005)

this how i cycled my tank before .filled up the fishtank wid water ,turn biowheel on ,i also put aquaclear on it n ph up ,even doh i dont kno wtf it does , next day put feeder goldfish in ,then next day dumped in some rbps ,after a few days nomore feeder goldfish :]


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## Steve-Fox (Nov 28, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Wow you guys are great! loads of info I think iam gonna not cycle and do lots of water changes(is to much a bad thing) Thanks guys


This is the problem with posts such as posted in this thread: personal experience is not the same as the preferered method of taking care of things, and - like in this case - it sends out a very bad, even dangerous message. People should hand out responsible and sensible advice or nothing at all - the last thing people should do is sharing own experiences based on bad practices, and post them up as advice to newcomers to the hobby. Again, very dangerous stuff...

It's very simple: if you care about your fish, you should cycle your tank. In fact, if you don't care and don't bother to cycle your tank, imo. you shouldn't keep fish to begin with. If you let fish live in an uncycled tank, it's similar to locking up humans in a chamber filled with toxic fumes or gasses - you don't do such things intentionally!

Yes, many (intentional or unintentional) have kept fish in uncycled tanks, and yes, many fish may survive through the cycle, but is that enough justification to do it yourself? I think not! No one who has done so knows the long-term effects on their fish: maybe they have cut the life expectancy of their fish in half, reduced the immuun system radically, made the fish chronically susceptible to certain diseases or conditions, caused invisible damage to internal organs, or caused severe damage/stress to their fish in other ways - is that something you want to do intentionally? Ask yourself that question and think about it hard before going to the pet store to buy your fish - if you don't want to 'play' according to a few basic rules each and every responsible fish keeper does listen to, and all fish keepers should listen to, you may reconsider whether you have chosen the right pets.
One more reason to cycle your tank: if you start off the wrong way, it's guaranteed you _will_ run into problems in the future, problems that heavily impact the enjoyment this hobby can offer you.

Not to bash or sound harsh, but that's how I see things...








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