# is this highback rhom?



## 1rhom

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...g&id=187830


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## Grosse Gurke

link doesnt work for me


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## marilynmonroe

link is no good


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## 1rhom

here we go


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## Trigga

I have never really noticed a difference in small rhoms.. It's more noticable when they get like 8"+


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## Gerrad

I don't think so, it's a juvi diamond rhom.


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## 1rhom

Gerrad said:


> I don't think so, it's a juvi diamond rhom.


Yeah but look at his back.


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## memento

1rhom said:


> I don't think so, it's a juvi diamond rhom.


It's a rhom for sure!
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Doesn't this answer to that perticular reply make you wonder why you raised this question ?
He's not calling it just a rhom, but a diamond rhom. Like you asked if it were just a rhom, or a highback rhom. Or should I read it like you believe all rhoms are diamond rhoms ?
In a way you would be right, considering what "rhombeus" actually means...

It's a juvenile rhom, that's all there is to it for now.


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## Grosse Gurke

Its a juvenile rhom, that’s all there is to it until it becomes an adult rhom. You people are too fixated on common names.


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## Buckman

we answered this already in the discussion forum. its a rhom. call it whatever you want. call it a highback gold diamond ruby red topaz emerald platinum nuclear rhom. its still a rhom.


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## 1rhom

Buckman said:


> wow...another thread? really? we answered this already in the discussion forum. its a rhom. call it whatever you want. call it a highback gold diamond ruby red topaz emerald platinum nuclear rhom. its still a rhom.


Relax!!! Don't answer if you don't want to. I posted the same question in the other forum cause i felt that i was going to get more replies. I thought there was different kinds of rhoms.


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## Buckman

technically there are, but aside from knowing exaclty what river and where the fish was collected from, its not possible to give a difinitive answer. if it were a larger rhom then you can make an educated guess based on characteristics but its just too early.


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## hastatus

> Relax!!! Don't answer if you don't want to. I posted the same question in the other forum cause i felt that i was going to get more replies. I thought there was different kinds of rhoms.


There you have it! He was taking a survey on how many "what kind of rhom is this?" would be answered. What a shocker. As GG and Lucien stated, S. rhombeus is S. rhombeus.


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## 1rhom

Ok thanks. It's from Rio Nanay btw.


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## memento

1rhom said:


> I thought there was different kinds of rhoms.


Lots of people tend to believe that, and for that single reason they are sold like that.
But in fact the name Serrasalmus rhombeus sais it all: genus Serrasalmus, and speciesname rhombeus. That's the species, no more no less. No different kinds.
There are some geographical variations however, just like southern red-bellies have yellow coloring and are called ternetzis. That actually is also often mistaken, as people believe a ternetzi is a single species. It isn't, it still is a redbelly, just another variant from a different region.

For Serrasalmus rhombeus the same can be said: the fish from different regions cán have minor differences. Peruvians sometimes have a higher back and for that reason are sometimes called Peruvain High Backs. The specimen caught from Rio Xingu sometimes have very distinct humeral spots. But even with these differences, both are S.rhombeus, no more no less. Just another variant from another area.

But remeber a few things : there are no different kinds of rhom. A rhom is a rhom.
Secondly : even though there are minor geographical variations, those are usually too small to make it able to say what geographical variant you have.
Third : unless you caught it yourself, you never know where it's caught. A salesmen doesn't know where the fishermen caught it from.
Fourth : lots of people will tell you they cán tell you where it's caught just from a pic. Who am I to say that's bullocks. People even tend to proclaim they talk to aliens...


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## 1rhom

Then Red bellies are the same as caribes and ternetzis!!!


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## memento

1rhom said:


> Then Red bellies are the same as caribes and ternetzis!!!


No, they are not. Terns and reds are, but caribas are a different species.
They share the genus Pygocentrus. In this genus, are three different species : P.piraya, P.nattereri and P.cariba.
Those are three distinct species, different from each other. Just like Serrasalmus rhombeus is another species than Serrasalmus geryi.

Pygocentrus nattereri however, the redbellied piranha, is known bij his red color. The same Pygocentrus nattereri from the southern areas however, sometimes hows a yellow color. But it still is a Pygocentrus nattereri, a redbellied piranha.
Exactly the same species, just with a different color. They are called ternetzis, but the actual name is Pygocentrus nattereri. To distuingish them, the common name becomes Pygocentrus nattereri "ternetzi variant".


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## CLUSTER ONE

1rhom said:


> Then Red bellies are the same as caribes and ternetzis!!!


Common names dont mean anything. There pretty much created as a marketing gimmick. A rhom with blue sparkly scales is a blue diamond rhom. Theres a specific region that there supposed to be from, but common names pretty much are applying more to the traits and not to th collection point.

If its from Rio Nanay its a peruvian rhom assuming that it was actually caught there. I would just avoid using common names. Keep the collection point, but theres no need to put some name in from of it to try to make it sound better. a rhom will look the same and be no different whether its being called S. rhombeus or "superblack diamond flying piranha". Common names are just confusing as many peopel make up their own names so nothing is really consistant.


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## memento

sean-820 said:


> "superblack diamond flying piranha"


Now thát would be worth an extra couple of bucks


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## 1rhom

sean-820 said:


> Then Red bellies are the same as caribes and ternetzis!!!


 [quote A rhom with blue sparkly scales is a blue diamond rhom.[/quote]
So if i want that variant,i will ask for blue diamond rhom,but i agree,a rhom is a rhom is a rhom...


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## locust

Lucien said:


> I thought there was different kinds of rhoms.


Lots of people tend to believe that, and for that single reason they are sold like that.
But in fact the name Serrasalmus rhombeus sais it all: genus Serrasalmus, and speciesname rhombeus. That's the species, no more no less. No different kinds.
There are some geographical variations however, just like southern red-bellies have yellow coloring and are called ternetzis. That actually is also often mistaken, as people believe a ternetzi is a single species. It isn't, it still is a redbelly, just another variant from a different region.

For Serrasalmus rhombeus the same can be said: the fish from different regions cán have minor differences. Peruvians sometimes have a higher back and for that reason are sometimes called Peruvain High Backs. The specimen caught from Rio Xingu sometimes have very distinct humeral spots. But even with these differences, both are S.rhombeus, no more no less. Just another variant from another area.

But remeber a few things : there are no different kinds of rhom. A rhom is a rhom.
Secondly : even though there are minor geographical variations, those are usually too small to make it able to say what geographical variant you have.
Third : unless you caught it yourself, you never know where it's caught. A salesmen doesn't know where the fishermen caught it from.
Fourth : lots of people will tell you they cán tell you where it's caught just from a pic. Who am I to say that's bullocks. People even tend to proclaim they talk to aliens...
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Im sure ive read somewhere something by Frank that all this is under review inso much that S.Rhombeus varients may in some cases be different species and " Ternetzi" are more akin to P. Piraya than Nattereri. 
Could be wrong tho.


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## hastatus

> Im sure ive read somewhere something by Frank that all this is under review inso much that S.Rhombeus varients may in some cases be different species and " Ternetzi" are more akin to P. Piraya than Nattereri.
> Could be wrong tho.


What I wrote was an opinion (P. piraya and "ternetzi" being more related by prehistoric history, and S. rhombeus is indeed still be reviewed to determine via DnA if they share a common ancestor or are just geographical variations of the same species. Whether or not the species "rhombeus" will be broken down more based on geography is still up in the air. You and especially me, will likely not see it in our lifetime.


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## memento

Terns sometimes have a rayed adipose fin, that's the reason for that assumption.
They don't do all unfortunately, so that assumption is still hard to prove I'm afraid....

Same for S.rhombeus, it is still considered a complex as far as I know. But that's based on DNA research, different types were found in species that looked alike, without actual different appearances. So no reason to asume diamonds and highbacks are differnt "kinds".


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## locust

hastatus said:


> Im sure ive read somewhere something by Frank that all this is under review inso much that S.Rhombeus varients may in some cases be different species and " Ternetzi" are more akin to P. Piraya than Nattereri.
> Could be wrong tho.
> 
> 
> 
> What I wrote was an opinion (P. piraya and "ternetzi" being more related by prehistoric history, and S. rhombeus is indeed still be reviewed to determine via DnA if they share a common ancestor or are just geographical variations of the same species. Whether or not the species "rhombeus" will be broken down more based on geography is still up in the air. You and especially me, will likely not see it in our lifetime.
Click to expand...

Thanks for asserting that stance, and not leaving my post to be misinterpreted


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## CLUSTER ONE

1rhom said:


> Terns sometimes have a rayed adipose fin, that's the reason for that assumption.
> They don't do all unfortunately, so that assumption is still hard to prove I'm afraid....
> 
> Same for S.rhombeus, it is still considered a complex as far as I know. But that's based on DNA research, different types were found in species that looked alike, without actual different appearances. So no reason to asume diamonds and highbacks are differnt "kinds".


Ive never heard that about terns. So is it kinda like a debate whether the rayed fin is a mutation or if its a dormant gene that has gotten turned back on.

Hope this makes sense.


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## memento

sean-820 said:


> Ive never heard that about terns. So is it kinda like a debate whether the rayed fin is a mutation or if its a dormant gene that has gotten turned back on.
> 
> Hope this makes sense.


Depens on how you look at evolution. Pirayas have rayed adipose fins and nattereris don't. Some terns however do have 'm, so taking into consideration that the diversity came from a big flooding, it could be a possibility that the nattereri ternetzis are a little closer related to pirayas than regular nattereris.
Calling it a different species however would a possibility, crossbreeding after flooding would be another possibility to explain the presence of the gene. Since the rays are present in only a few, it could be a recessive gene...


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## Grosse Gurke

Some of you guys are even more confused then the original poster. Redbelly is a comon name just like Ternetzi. So no...a ternetzi is not a redbelly. Both fish are P. nattereri.

The use of common names when dealing with these fish is the same as shopping for a car. You can by a red civic...or you can buy a yellow civic. Both are Honda Civics....but they are not the same in appearance. You can buy a blue diamond rhom or you can buy a gold diamond rhom. Both are S. rhombeus....but they are not the same in appearance.

Keep it simply people.....some show how ignorant they really are when they try to over analyze this issue.


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## hastatus

> You can by a red civic...or you can buy a yellow civic. Both are Honda Civics....but they are not the same in appearance. Keep it simply people.....some show how ignorant they really are when they try to over analyze this issue.


Until you get into where the parts are made from .


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## memento

Grosse Gurke said:


> Some of you guys are even more confused then the original poster. Redbelly is a comon name just like Ternetzi. So no...a ternetzi is not a redbelly. Both fish are P. nattereri.
> 
> The use of common names when dealing with these fish is the same as shopping for a car. You can by a red civic...or you can buy a yellow civic. Both are Honda Civics....but they are not the same in appearance. You can buy a blue diamond rhom or you can buy a gold diamond rhom. Both are S. rhombeus....but they are not the same in appearance.
> 
> Keep it simply people.....some show how ignorant they really are when they try to over analyze this issue.


I like your description, but am I confused because I call a red Civic the same car as a blue one ? There is no difference, except in common names and that's the reason for the "what kind of rhom do I have" topics...
Confusion starts (I think) where a red car is called another car then a yellow one though both are civics


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## hastatus

Unfortunately the reference to 'red-bellies' is general term used for the genera of Pygocentrus, in literature and some scientific papers. Keep in mind, P. piraya is found in all three colors; red-orange-yellow as is P. nattereri. P. cariba comes in red to reddish orange. Its still a red-belly in general terms. So use common names if you must, but just remember a scientific name takes precedence over ignorance.


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## Us And Them

I agree with Lucien and Hastatus , Just like an Elong is an Elong. haha

I really couldnt tell you if I had a black Mask or not... wanna know why ? because it comes and goes depending on the water Temp and his mood , When he feels threatened or scared His black comes out almost instantaneously and it's beautiful...

other times , he is just shimmery and not black at all. Great Fish none the less. there is no BLACK MASK species... they all have some variance of a black Mask some light , some dark ,

BUT I HAVE NEVER seen an ELONG with absolutely no trace of a black mask.

And about that TERN thing Lucien, Your right in the sense of terns and Reds being the same.. but havn't you noticed subtle differences , per say in the characteristics of a Tern as opposed to a Red ?

Reds are definetly more skittish , even subtle scientific differences like that can validate an entire new species , if the time and money is there for someone to prove it.


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## Grosse Gurke

CrazeeJon said:


> Reds are definetly more skittish , even subtle scientific differences like that can validate an entire new species , if the time and money is there for someone to prove it.


Skittishness is a scientific difference? I dont think behavioral differences can be used to validate a species. My friend John has a nervous twitch&#8230;.I believe he is still the same species.


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## hastatus

> Skittishness is a scientific difference? I dont think behavioral differences can be used to validate a species. My friend John has a nervous twitch&#8230;.I believe he is still the same species.


TO be determined.


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## Buckman

Grosse Gurke said:


> Reds are definetly more skittish , even subtle scientific differences like that can validate an entire new species , if the time and money is there for someone to prove it.


Skittishness is a scientific difference? I dont think behavioral differences can be used to validate a species. My friend John has a nervous twitch&#8230;.I believe he is still the same species.








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