# What Piranha can you group together?



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

What species can you group more than one of each other with.

Example: 2 black piranha

Another Example: 2 gold spilo

Yet Another example: 2 piraya

and so on down the list like that. I have seen pictures on this site of people with 2 black together in the same tank and was wondering if any other species besides the pygo family could be grouped together?


----------



## Mack (Oct 31, 2004)

Pygocentrus species all together have the highest chance of working. Provided you have the tank space, you can put as many as you want in the same tank.

S. Spilo will sometimes group together, once again I would say as many as you want, but only if you have the tank space.

S. Mac will sometimes group as well.

I would like to see this supposed pic of two black piranhas in the same tank. I find it hard to believe that two Rhombeus specimens would tolerate each other.


----------



## NTcaribe (Apr 8, 2004)

when you see serra shoaling together,its sometime a flook of success but give it some time and youll run into problems

the only serra species that will shoal successfully are geryi,and in some cases spilos


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Anyone else experinced any different shoals other that pygos?


----------



## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

Serrasalmus species will not shoal. They will tolerate each other to a certain extent. They are fin biters and will nip on each other all the time. I do have a group of four gold spilos and they are very weary of one another. They have eatablished territories in the tank and stay on guard. They bite each other all the time







eventhough I give them a lot of room. I've had them for about two years now.

Pygos are your best bet. 
Serras are loners.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Noone one has ever grouped rhoms together?

Can it be done?


----------



## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

no, but frank [hastatus] has kept a group of s. sanchezis together. needless to say, MANY died.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Slim Posted Today, 10:30 AM
> Noone one has ever grouped rhoms together?
> 
> Can it be done?


There was a P-FURY member that tried it years ago, lost them all except for 1 very fat and happy S. rhombeus. In the public aquarium arena its been tried, the most famous recorded instance was the Duisburg Zoo. They kept 20 of them in a 1200g aquario and they reduced themselves to 6 specimens. They kept them together for about 8 years. Eventually a pair spawned but those eventually ate each other up too. The point of this is 1) they can be kept for a period of time. 2) expect to lose them. 3) Be sure you have at least 1200g tank for some success. 4) Lastly, don't confuse 8 years with success or proving anything other than they do what they do and that is cannabalize themselves at any given time.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

well here is that pic you wanted of more than just a pygo shoal. So you can see why i wonder if you can put more than one black in the same tank


----------



## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

i don't know how many times you need to beat a dead horse but this forum is probably going to reach a record with all these people asking about grouping serra's. They don't group, they don't shoal, they don't like eachother to any extent, they would like nothing more than to kill eachother, its the nature of the species. Why its like asking if you can keep a boa constrictor with a mouse. YES YOU CAN, FOR AN AMOUNT OF TIME. nature is nature folks, get over it!


----------



## Mack (Oct 31, 2004)

Those aren't rhoms, those look like spilos to me.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

They look like highbacks to me but hey who knows.


----------



## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

Those are S. geryi


----------



## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

those are geryis,

and id stick to pygos if i were you, unless you have the money, the space, the dedication, the knowledge

and the patients do not mix serras, more often then not it does not work, and i strong suggest against

the average hobbiest trying it


----------



## RedBelly Dom (Mar 22, 2005)

first of all red bellys can defenitly mix together. Im pretty sure you might be able to mix black piranhas. and u can mix caribe


----------



## Esoteric (Jul 7, 2004)

RedBelly Dom said:


> first of all red bellys can defenitly mix together. Im pretty sure you might be able to mix black piranhas. and u can mix caribe
> [snapback]945772[/snapback]​


some people are just better off with goldfish


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Slim said:


> well here is that pic you wanted of more than just a pygo shoal. So you can see why i wonder if you can put more than one black in the same tank
> [snapback]945366[/snapback]​


Hey who said you could use my photo ?







And these are not Blacks ,and there not Gold spilos or Highbacks they are Serrasalmus Geryi  .










> Im pretty sure you might be able to mix black piranhas.

















Good one


----------



## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

thoese fish lined up are s. geryi. We should have two fourms. One for people willing to understand the workings of nature and one for thoese who think man can discover new ways around the way things really work. Instead of trying to keep serra's in the same tank why don't we all spend our time trying to reverse gravity or mountains weather proof.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

jamesdelanoche said:


> i don't know how many times you need to beat a dead horse but this forum is probably going to reach a record with all these people asking about grouping serra's. They don't group, they don't shoal, they don't like eachother to any extent, they would like nothing more than to kill eachother, its the nature of the species. Why its like asking if you can keep a boa constrictor with a mouse. YES YOU CAN, FOR AN AMOUNT OF TIME. nature is nature folks, get over it!
> [snapback]945371[/snapback]​





> thoese fish lined up are s. geryi. We should have two fourms. One for people willing to understand the workings of nature and one for thoese who think man can discover new ways around the way things really work. Instead of trying to keep serra's in the same tank why don't we all spend our time trying to reverse gravity or mountains weather proof.


I see you asking about this whole hobby in Jan of this year ...


> Hey all, it looks like i am going to be getting a 240 gal setup that has i think 5 piraya, 4 5" and 1 4" already with it. My question here is would it be ok to add 3 caribe (5") and 2 super reds(4")? I know if I did i would have to re-arrange everything but is it a good enough chance of working to risk the money? Also, I'm thinking of getting a rhom. Is there a difference between where the specimen is collected? I see everyone says where it was collected, so does it make a difference? Like a real difference, not just reputation. Also, how long would like a 40-50 gallon tank last me? I am thinking I will just order a rhom when I order thoese other fish just to save money on shipping. Thanks a lot guys.


How would you know , are you speaking out of expierence? If You have none of it how can you even touch on this subject ? Im Not one for mixing Blacks at all or other notorious (solitary Serras), but Macs , Spilos and Geryi with a litle luck and proper conditions will group , But will they get along, is up to them . ... However I dont reccommend to the beggining Hobbyist.
Do you even own piranhas? 
For your reading pleaseure about Geryi ....follow the link 
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/geryi.html


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

they look like mannies to me


----------



## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

33truballa33 said:


> they look like mannies to me
> [snapback]945916[/snapback]​


----------



## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

do you want to discount the fact thoese are s. geryi?


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

jamesdelanoche said:


> do you want to discount the fact thoese are s. geryi?
> [snapback]945963[/snapback]​











Yes they are S. Geryi


----------



## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

because I have not kept a bunch of rhoms together means I cannot speak on why it doesnt work? Why then can we learn in school how volcanoes work, without keeping them in our homes and how engines work without building one ourself? If you want to discount any of the things I have said feel free otherwise you are just boasting about your own experience. Why the f*ck does it matter what I have done when I am trying to help further the hobby and prevent someone from making a mistake? Get your elitest head out of your fat ass and pick your battles.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

jamesdelanoche said:


> because I have not kept a bunch of rhoms together means I cannot speak on why it doesnt work? Why then can we learn in school how volcanoes work, without keeping them in our homes and how engines work without building one ourself? If you want to discount any of the things I have said feel free otherwise you are just boasting about your own experience. Why the f*ck does it matter what I have done when I am trying to help further the hobby and prevent someone from making a mistake? Get your elitest head out of your fat ass and pick your battles.
> [snapback]945972[/snapback]​


You feel better now ....








Who's talking about rhoms







(seems only you ) ? Lets stay on topic ...When you figure out what were talking about holla at me ...


----------



## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

Slim said:


> Noone one has ever grouped rhoms together?
> 
> Can it be done?
> [snapback]939022[/snapback]​


that is what I was reffering to.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

jamesdelanoche said:


> Slim said:
> 
> 
> > Noone one has ever grouped rhoms together?
> ...


Well there are mulitiple rhoms mixed with pygos in Mandalay Bay aquarium ....
But As stated ...I DO NOT RECCOMMEND AT ALL


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Harley....have you tried a multiple rhom tank?

If not, how can you recommend anything when it comes to this subject if all knowledge must come from personal experience? I think experience is the best way to gain knowledge but there is much that can be learned from the experience of others.

Please dont bash on members becase they have not kept every species.....


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Hey Harley....have you tried a multiple rhom tank?
> 
> If not, how can you recommend anything when it comes to this subject if all knowledge must come from personal experience? I think experience is the best way to gain knowledge but there is much that can be learned from the experience of others.
> 
> ...


Nope I'm not that dumb , Plus Im smart enough to know thru research of not only this site and others and even getting tons of advice from YOU , to know better than to do something like that . Plus where did I state "All Knowledge comes from personnnel expierence"? But to prove my point and yours I can get a tank set up if you like and we can watch the fish die ????? But I dont think we want that .
Now for the bashing .....
I didnt bash anyone , merley stated my opinion ....


> Why the f*ck does it matter what I have done when I am trying to help further the hobby and prevent someone from making a mistake? Get your elitest head out of your fat ass and pick your battles.


This whole post was a bash towards me , and you question me about bashing ? 
But for real , I dont wanna engage in a







Id rather


----------



## NTcaribe (Apr 8, 2004)

im sick of seeing these posts,but hey ill answer to them anyway

no rhoms,spilos,sanchezi etc will tolerate each other like pygos

the only known instance of serras tolerating each other is geryi,even than you may run into problems a tank of atleast 240 gallons is really IMO to little...but even with a 240 your only limited to about 4(im probably even wrong)
and at about 400-500 a fish why would you want to risk it...these species need respect and devotion..if your up for the challenge go for it..but please listen to our advice. having several rhoms or any serras in one tank mean disaster...m,aybe you wont run into a problem the same day you put them together maybe even a week but trust me you will have a prob

before i start blabbering on...save some rhoms for the people who would like to keep some and not go and put them together

its like putting you with some of your most hated enemies and sticking you all in a room and theres only like enough food to feed one of you's and you have to fight to the death...put that into a perspective


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

> How would you know , are you speaking out of expierence? If You have none of it how can you even touch on this subject ?


This is what I was talking about. He is giving advice based on what he has read on this site and you basically told him he is not qualified to speak on the subject because he doesnt have any experience. This would be a pretty slow place if people only spoke from personal experience.


----------



## NTcaribe (Apr 8, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> > How would you know , are you speaking out of expierence? If You have none of it how can you even touch on this subject ?
> 
> 
> This is what I was talking about. He is giving advice based on what he has read on this site and you basically told him he is not qualified to speak on the subject because he doesnt have any experience. This would be a pretty slow place if people only spoke from personal experience.
> [snapback]946082[/snapback]​


that why i dont see the reason for giving someone advice if they dont even take it into consideration..like i dont know why some people even ask


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> > How would you know , are you speaking out of expierence? If You have none of it how can you even touch on this subject ?
> 
> 
> This is what I was talking about. He is giving advice based on what he has read on this site and you basically told him he is not qualified to speak on the subject because he doesnt have any experience. This would be a pretty slow place if people only spoke from personal experience.
> [snapback]946082[/snapback]​


Also he is under the assuption that my pic that was shown are rhoms, which he asked frank if they were geryi and Frank agreed ....I wasent even talking about Rhoms , I was talking about Geryi .....
And all I said is this about rhoms 


> Well there are mulitiple rhoms mixed with pygos in Mandalay Bay aquarium ....
> But As stated ...I DO NOT RECCOMMEND AT ALL


So If you see that as a bash or Bad Advice , well then I may as well quit the hobby , and quit posting on P-fury ..


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Overreact much?

I never said you were giving bad advice. I dont think jamesdelanoche gave bad advice. Grouping serras is a risk because of the nature of the fish.....I think that is solid advice.....and you dont need to toss a bunch of rhoms in a tank to learn it. 
I do think it was uncalled for to tell someone if they dont have personal experience they can not speak on a subject. That is why I pointed out that you were speaking about putting rhoms together.....with no experience on the subject. Good advice and you didnt need to kill fish to learn it. We all need to start somewhere....


----------



## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

I think, in piranha-biz, that reading facts and others experience and replying answers that rely on that, is much more solid, than e.g only basing your answers on your own experience. Because a one time experience, or a couple of more, can't overdue the fact of many experiences read and understood. So, it's actually more clever to give advices based on reading facts, than your own experience, because the facts is based on so many more experience coincidences.. Agreed?

I can't say I understood MR.Harley's first reply, I think he misunderstood it.. Maybe I'm wrong.. But hey, don't get mad on eachother because just because of a discussion, don't take it so hard ppl


----------



## hrdbyte (Feb 2, 2005)

I say just get a schoal of pygo natts you wont regret it...........


----------



## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

To clear this up I was not under the impression thoese were rhoms, what I said was an example stating that just because I did not have experience with one thing, doesnt mean I am not qualified to talk about it. I am sorry for the misunderstanding, but I wrote thoese posts after being awake for like 26 hours straight. I apologize if I got off topic, i've tried to take whatever else through PM.

Back on track....

Slim, from an economic standpoint its not worth the risk, i've kept money for a number of years and whenever I buy something that dies (my first car for example), it doesnt feel very good. Hope somewhere in all this you've gotten your advice?


----------



## Mack (Oct 31, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> And these are not Blacks ,and there not Gold spilos or Highbacks they are Serrasalmus Geryi  .










I didn't even notice the stripes.


----------



## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

thePACK said:


> 33truballa33 said:
> 
> 
> > they look like mannies to me
> ...





MR HARLEY said:


> jamesdelanoche said:
> 
> 
> > do you want to discount the fact thoese are s. geryi?
> ...


They're Pacus


----------



## Esoteric (Jul 7, 2004)

Umm, this guy is talking about adding rhoms together after 8 people mentioned they are geryi in the photo, obviously the new guy assumed too much and he needed to be set straight.

Because he is new and ignorant he can't accept the fact that he was wrong, just from being around these forums one should know the facts about rhoms, expecially before adding how they can be grouped together.


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

S. Geryi have always been considered "shoalable". Some people have also kept Maculatus and Spilos together for some time using certain conditions and a little luck. I have never heard of a case where rhoms can be kept together IN THE LONG TERM.


----------



## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Slim said:


> What species can you group more than one of each other with.
> 
> Example: 2 black piranha
> 
> ...


Personally I only have pygos and they do well together. I have wanted to try a spilo tank







but thats just me daydreaming again hehehehehe


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Esoteric said:


> Umm, this guy is talking about adding rhoms together after 8 people mentioned they are geryi in the photo, obviously the new guy assumed too much and he needed to be set straight.[snapback]946785[/snapback]​


Well, if a newcomer needs to be "set straight" (terrible choice of words, btw), I'd like to see it done respectfully, not with some "I'm more experienced and you're a dumbass n00b" attitude. We're here to offer newcomers the best possible start with their new hobby, not to serve as a platform to show your superiority above newcomers (which we all were at one stage). If it takes asking a dozen "ignorant" questions to become a responsible fish keeper that knows what he's doing, than that's the way it is (Rome wasn't built in one day, and even veteran fish keepers and true hobbyists will say they will always learn new things).

If that's too much to ask for, leave setting records straight to people that know how to deal with newcomers, and can answer questions in a normal way (even if he asked for the obvious after 50 posts) - it's as simple as that...


----------



## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

33truballa33 said:


> they look like mannies to me
> [snapback]945916[/snapback]​


You're kidding, right?











MR HARLEY said:


> Well there are mulitiple rhoms mixed with pygos in Mandalay Bay aquarium ....
> But As stated ...I DO NOT RECCOMMEND AT ALL
> [snapback]945992[/snapback]​


If there were, then it was a failed attempt. I was there not too long ago and they had only one rhom left (with a piece of tail missing) mixed in with caribe and reds.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Well first off Im not a newb, I was just wondering if by any chance you could put blacks together cause my buddy wanted to order 10 of them and I told him not to order but one cause they cant live together in the same tank. I have been in the piranha hobby for 2 years now and am learning alot from P-Fury and all its members well most of them anyways. Mr. Harley. sorry bout the pic man should have asked first.

jamesdelanoche I think you came off on the wrong foot when I posted this and I think you owe Mr. Harley an apoligy. I started this forum its my responsibility. If anyone wants to bash anyone than bash me for starting this whole question. I was simply trying to prove to a buddy just getting into the hobby that he couldnt do it.

I have a 125 DIY tank with my 4 reds ive raised since about 1 inch. Here are some pics.


----------



## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

And Esoteric is an idiot for talking such flabbergaster and of his punny little mouth of his. I had asked a simple question and then asked about a pic that I say of what I thought were blacks I was wrong my bad. Im only human. No what Im an idiot what am I thinking asking questions on a site that thats what your supposed to being doing. Such a moron I am.


----------



## B. Rodgers (Jan 20, 2005)

Some P-Fury members have nothing better to do than rub anything they can in to some one else...they are like pencil pushing geeks or computer nerds that call people morons who are trying to learn how to write or use computers...I hear ya slim! All we can do is just get help from people who care about the hobby and not those with their ego's shoved up their rears!


----------



## fredweezy (May 27, 2004)

Slim said:


> well here is that pic you wanted of more than just a pygo shoal. So you can see why i wonder if you can put more than one black in the same tank
> [snapback]945366[/snapback]​


I love these threads...those a silver dollars...right?


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Is this thread going to get interesting any time soon? Feels like we've been here before.


----------



## red&black (Feb 25, 2005)

jamesdelanoche said:


> i don't know how many times you need to beat a dead horse but this forum is probably going to reach a record with all these people asking about grouping serra's. They don't group, they don't shoal, they don't like eachother to any extent, they would like nothing more than to kill eachother, its the nature of the species. Why its like asking if you can keep a boa constrictor with a mouse. YES YOU CAN, FOR AN AMOUNT OF TIME. nature is nature folks, get over it!
> [snapback]945371[/snapback]​


lol


----------



## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

Personally i wouldnt really want to try to put a $100+ rhom into a tank with others if i knew it would eventually be eaten....


----------

