# Auto Water Change / Multiple Tanks On Single Sump



## Guest (May 16, 2011)

As it says in the title... I am going to be in the process or finishing my basement here in awhile... And am planning a wall with three tanks on it... all piranhas.. 125gal with cariba... 75 with rhom and possibly another 75 with BME ... or a smaller tank with my RRS I am going to have an equipment room behind all the tanks for filters heaters and such... would like to rig up an auto water change system... and I am also planning on integrating them all into one filtration system. any advice diagrams or anyhhing like that would be great... or suggestions on the sump tank... looking for something very large sturdy thinking maybe some sort of water trough they use for livestock.. could I use a galvanized metal trough?. Any advice... suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks for looking.


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## sick of chiclids (May 25, 2010)

i would use a plastic water trough. we have one that is going to be the sump for my brothers reef tank. very sturdy.


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

i thought the galvanized steel would be sturdier.... but I also need to drill it for my auto water change set up... so I dont know..

also.... wondering what you guys think about cory cats and cherry shrimp in the sump tank.... as clean up crew.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

For a sump that large you would want to use something like a Rubbermaid stock tank, in 150 or 300 gal, Galvanized steel is a bad idea IMO.

You would need overflows in all of your tanks (drilled preferably) and to plumb those to the sump area.

And 1 large return pump with a manifold and ball valves to control flow to each tank, or properly sized pumps for each of the tanks returns... Keep in mind you will have lots of head-loss pushing water long distances vertically or horizontally.

For an auto water change system, you would need to drill the sump for a drain at running level and plumb that to a drain... You could then use a RO/DI filter to make water and A)pump it in XX gals at a time on a set schedule, or B) constantly add water at a set drip rate.

If you want a high quality paint drawing, i could prob whip one up.


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

aegir what you just said is my exact plan ! I just wanted to make sure there were no secrets tips or better ways of going about this....

What size pump would you recomend??? I would prefer the one large pump... and adjust as needed for the smaller tanks.. it would look a lot nicer. 
I know headloss is a factor.. the sump tank is most likely going to be directly next to the tanks..... and I will make it so the water comes into the sump on the far and... and the pump will be on the end close to the tanks.

Not sure if you saw my post.... could I add cory cats or say red cherry shrimp to my sump tank??? to clean up?

Say I do the setup how I am planning two 75's and one 125 how fast of a rate should the water changer be at??? And how do I make the water ok for a tank?? Because normally I add stresszyme to nutralize the water..


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

I agree with aegir on doing a gravity fed drain then you can just pump as much water into the tank as you want to change it.

10% is about 30g per week which is about 4.2g per day.

Im not sure of the best pump for the job as you need a low gpd pump that is still strong enough to overcome head loss which alot of cheap small pumps cannot do. Something like a ro unit or mayby a pump simlilar to the type ro units use should probably work as you can get ro units from about 20-100plus gpd.

Something that could work to control the water change rate with one pump that could be abit oversized would be have 4 pump outputs (3 to tanks and 1 to reservoir) all with valves so you can control how much you want to each tank and any excess can be routed back to the water reserve. Since you will probably need to get some ro unit pump that does 205 or so gpd you will probably have to route some of the water back to the reserve unless you plan to change escessive amounts of water. This way you could always increase or decrease the ATO rate without having to change pumps. Like said you could also do the ro unit type pump on a timer for mayby a couple hours a day depending on how much water you want to use though you will still need to valves to control how much new water each tank gets.


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

what is RO style pump??? could you send me a link???


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Ok, SO blue would be your drains, red would be your returns off one large pump... the black slashes are ball valves. You will still need unions, and some other parts when you put it together but. what is your total system volume going to be (all tanks+sump)? Reeflo pumps have always worked well for me (dart, hammerhead etc) depending on how much water you need to move. The square with blue in it is a drip tower, which can be made from 5 gal buckets or rubbermaid storage containers with drawers. Bioballs, ceramic media etc would be packed inside.










That can be configured in about any way as long as the display tanks are higher up than the sump... And you could add water into any part of the system for your water change, with the excess running off into a drain.

I would suggest using a remote water storage (50 gals or whatever you can fit) and using a pump on a timer to change set amounts periodically, as opposed to running an RO/DI unit constantly and burning up membranes.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Im just saying see if you can either get a reverse osmosis (RO) unit or you may be able to buy a pump like what is used on RO units. Buying just the pump may save you a bit of money but if it doesn't save you much you may as well just buy the whole unit so you have it to use too.

link


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

RO unit is a water filter. Your main water supply would run through the unit and then into your sump, you'd also need to plum the RO waste water to either go down the drain or set up a separate reservoir to catch it so you could use it elsewhere (to water your garden for example). This is pretty complicated plumbing btw, you got to make sure everything is fail safe or you'd easily end up flooding your basement. Do some more research into how sumps work first because running more then one tank on a sump is complicated enough without adding auto w/c.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Ægir said:


> Ok, SO blue would be your drains, red would be your returns off one large pump... the black slashes are ball valves. You will still need unions, and some other parts when you put it together but. what is your total system volume going to be (all tanks+sump)? Reeflo pumps have always worked well for me (dart, hammerhead etc) depending on how much water you need to move. The square with blue in it is a drip tower, which can be made from 5 gal buckets or rubbermaid storage containers with drawers. Bioballs, ceramic media etc would be packed inside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Why is the waste water going back to the sump that the ATO pump is fed from? Im not sure if im just not understanding your drawing or not but it just looks like a loop with the old water and i don't see where the new water is coming from as the pump takes water from the sump but it also looks like the waste water goes back to the sump when I think it should go to a drain directly or it can drain to the sump and have another overflow to a drain but the red ATO pump should be fed from a seperate reservoir and not the same sump.


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

i think I like the idea... of a 55gallon drum... for water changes as apposed to the drip method... just use a sump pump.... with a tethered float on it... once a week.... kick the sump on with a switch... and after it is done.... refill 55gal drum.

the drawing is just sump.... doesnt include the auto water change... except where it has the drain coming out of sump.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

If you have a central sump filtering all of the tanks (initially i was thinking each tank was seperate) you do not need water changer drip on all the tanks. You can just have a gravity fed drain on the sump, a seperate water storage tank and a pump to pump new water to sump.

Ill make a drawing quick.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Why is the waste water going back to the sump that the ATO pump is fed from? Im not sure if im just not understanding your drawing or not but it just looks like a loop with the old water and i don't see where the new water is coming from as the pump takes water from the sump but it also looks like the waste water goes back to the sump when I think it should go to a drain directly or it can drain to the sump and have another overflow to a drain but the red ATO pump should be fed from a seperate reservoir and not the same sump.


There is no waste water, blue is just drains... and there is no water change or top off in the picture. That would be his filtration config, red return pump feeding the tanks, blue drains into sump, blue drain out of sump to drain for whatever method of auto change he uses (RO/DI drip, or larger cycles from a reservoir)

You could add your new water to any of the tanks directly, or the sump and still have the same effect.










Better?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

^ ok i understand now. i thought the red pump was for the auto waterchanger. Ya now your is pretty much the same as the one i just drew up


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> ^ ok i understand now. i thought the red pump was for the auto waterchanger. Ya now your is pretty much the same as the one i just drew up


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## Guest (May 22, 2011)

http://www.123ponds.com/wms5000.html

something like that for a pump? or need moreGPH??? i know I dont need one to chop up solids......... but is that enough GPH???


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

With a 125 and 2x75 (275g total+ sump volume) a 5000gph pump will be 18x turnover (not considering sump volume in total). HOB filters are ideal at 10x turnover and sumps can have less turnover to be just as efficient as hobs since it is a better filter overall.

That pump is deffinitly enough and would give you some great water turnover and room to add a couple more tanks to the system if you wanted to but if you don't plan to a pump half the size would work. 10x turnover with a sump is more then enough for filtration. You may want more gph for flow but 10x turnover in a sump is plenty of flow. You will want a farily good sized sump to handle 5k gph.

You could do a pump 2500gph+ if you want to but that larger 5000gph pump will give you some good flow (which is always nice to have) plus it will also be adequet if you decide to add another tank or two to the system.


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## Guest (May 22, 2011)

Alright next question...... i found all my components for the tank... the sump tank.... which is 300gal.... pump that is 8800gph.... except now I am going to have a 240gal rimless ray tank.... my 150gal cariba tank... 125gal rhom tank.. and 2 misc 75gal tanks.... MY question is.... all of these can have the same water....? rays and P's can share same pH and all that good stuff correct?

i think the 75's will be exos in one.... possibly...... my jaguar cichlid in the other.... thanks for helping me out though... I just want more than enough filtration.... I think I am going to have them all be bare bottom tanks to make vacuming easier... maybe paint the bottom side of the tanks...


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

c_granger21 said:


> Alright next question...... i found all my components for the tank... the sump tank.... which is 300gal.... going bigger already eh?pump that is 8800gph.... except now I am going to have a 240gal rimless ray tank.... my 150gal cariba tank... 125gal rhom tank.. and 2 misc 75gal tanks.... MY question is.... all of these can have the same water....? rays and P's can share same pH and all that good stuff correct?I would keep the water suitable for the rays. The p's will adapt fine. And yes they are naturally found in similar waters. You can keep alot of tanks attached though this can spread disease quick so you have to keep the sytem clean. You may want to look into some uv sterilizer too though keeping the water clean will suffice.
> 
> i think the 75's will be exos in one.... possibly...... my jaguar cichlid in the other.... thanks for helping me out though... I just want more than enough filtration.... I think I am going to have them all be bare bottom tanks to make vacuming easier... maybe paint the bottom side of the tanks...Slate tiles would look good too and IMO look nicer then just bare bottom.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

c_granger21 said:


> http://www.123ponds.com/wms5000.html
> 
> something like that for a pump? or need moreGPH??? i know I dont need one to chop up solids......... but is that enough GPH???


That pump EATS power (870w) and running full time would cost you about 870$ yearly (at .10c kwh you might pay more)

Look at the Reeflo pumps (Hammerhead gold is 4400GPH at 9' of head loss and uses 290w of power)

Or if you really want to be serious about it, look at the dolphin amp master diamond series... For what you will save yearly in power, you could buy 2 of either listed above and have a spare on hand incase of emergency.

5000gph is no problems through a sump if its baffled and has a bubble trap on the drain... during a sump leak i had a temp 10 gal tank with 1500gph going through it, and no micro bubbles made it into the display. If you are going 300 gal (rubbermaid i hope!?) sump, its cake.

With around 700gals of tanks, not including sump you will want ATLEAST 7000gph turnover so, i would suggest 2 smaller pumps as a fail safe...


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