# Help!!! Can't get it under control



## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Hello all I am in dire need of some assistance........

I'm having some issues with my 55 gallon tank and it's starting to show no mercy on its occupants. Here are some of the specs:

55 Gallon
Fluval 304
Simple Powerhead
Heater (Not sure of the wattage)
A few live plants
Small rock substrate
Temp. = 79-80
PH = between 6.0 and 6.4
Ammonia >0 but <.25ppm

I would have thought by now that the tank would have been cycled, I had to move the tank due to a change in apartments, which was around the first week in September. Throughout that time period I've been doing water changes about 2 times a week at about 30%. I did do a 50% water change about 3 weeks ago when things really got out of control but since then it's been the normal 20-30% changes 2 times a week. I feed about 2-3 times a week rotating every other day. Food consists of shrimp and bluefish mixed with Zoe Con. I do a gravel vac on one of the water changes once a week until I can get the ammonia issue under control. Now here's where things start to get a little messy.

Straight out of the tap water, PH is about 6.8 to 7.0 as soon as its in the tank no more than 5 min later the ph maintains itself at 6. I have never got a different reading from the tank than 6. Now I know that is pretty low but at this point I have no idea what's going on. Ammonia test 0 out of the tap and even after 25 and 35% water changes the ppms are between >0 but less than .25. It doesn't matter if I starve them for a week or feed everyday, test always reads the same. There was a point when I did the 50% change that the ammonia was off the charts, if I remember correctly somewhere around 2.0ppm. Right after the change it was down to .25.

Issues w/ the fish: Right now there are two RBPs about 3 inches in length and one RBPacu that is about 12", yes I know not a good match but I'm in the means of trying to find the big guy a new home. The problems first started out as cloudy eyes. Started in the middle of the pupil and slowly worked its way out, although never fully infecting the entire eye. That has been on and off for about a month now, never quite gone away but at the same time hasn't gotten worse that is until today. I'm come home from work and the Pacu's eyes are cloudy as well as the RBPs, there are white spots on the lower fins, tail, lower belly and around the gills of the pacu. It's not ick, I can defintely say that 100%. The RBPs have like a slight fuzz on top of there heads and lower lips and they have a slight hazy tint to their bodies. Not too serious but not a 100% healthy fish.

With that said, I just finished off a gravel vac water change at the rate of 30%. I added 3 and a half tablespoons of aquarium salt to the tank for the changed water and I'm sitting here feeling helpless. I just ordered a full master test kit which should be here tomorrow. At the moment I only have the tests for ammonia and PH.

Let me get the digi cam and try to snap a few pics..........

Thanks so much in advance!!!!!


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

You may need more filtration would be my guess. Definitely get the other test so you can see what is going on. We should e able to tell more then. What kind of media are you running in your filter? the 3 fish you have are waste producing bastards.


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Here are some of the pics, little tough, they're a little camera shy......






























Here's a shot of the little guys eye.....








Here is a video which I think shows the white or discolored areas a little better, if you look closely at his eye you'll see a cloudy area as well. The top fin, lower front fins (not sure of the term) and his lower belly seem to be the areas with the biggest problems.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Need full water params man---

Nitrate and Nitrite as well...

I'll have to re-read the first post to better understand situation


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

AKSkirmish said:


> Need full water params man---
> 
> Nitrate and Nitrite as well...
> 
> I'll have to re-read the first post to better understand situation


Hopefully tomorrow I will have the master kit and I'll be able to post full water param..


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

roccov12345 said:


> Need full water params man---
> 
> Nitrate and Nitrite as well...
> 
> I'll have to re-read the first post to better understand situation


Hopefully tomorrow I will have the master kit and I'll be able to post full water param..
[/quote]

Sorry-

Just read that part


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Try adding a tablespoon of A&H baking Soda predissolved in a cup of tank water and dumped in. Check pH afterwards. Do this daily until desired pH level is reached. Be careful not to raise more than 0.2 per day. For ammonia your conditioner should detoxify that. Add some salt to the tank, predissolved, to aid in case of any nitrite readings until your bacteria catches up in case you had a bacteria die off due to whatever including a low pH around 5.5 or less.


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Try adding a tablespoon of A&H baking Soda predissolved in a cup of tank water and dumped in. Check pH afterwards. Do this daily until desired pH level is reached. Be careful not to raise more than 0.2 per day. For ammonia your conditioner should detoxify that. Add some salt to the tank, predissolved, to aid in case of any nitrite readings until your bacteria catches up in case you had a bacteria die off due to whatever including a low pH around 5.5 or less.


You know I had heard once before that the Baking Soda would raise the PH but I wasn't sure where I saw that but your post reinstates the fact. Thank you! Now if I add the Baking Soda to the tank raising the PH, will it stay there or most likely bounce back to the 6 like my tap water does? I just don't want to cause crazy PH fluctuations on top of everything else.......


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

roccov12345 said:


> Try adding a tablespoon of A&H baking Soda predissolved in a cup of tank water and dumped in. Check pH afterwards. Do this daily until desired pH level is reached. Be careful not to raise more than 0.2 per day. For ammonia your conditioner should detoxify that. Add some salt to the tank, predissolved, to aid in case of any nitrite readings until your bacteria catches up in case you had a bacteria die off due to whatever including a low pH around 5.5 or less.


You know I had heard once before that the Baking Soda would raise the PH but I wasn't sure where I saw that but your post reinstates the fact. Thank you! Now if I add the Baking Soda to the tank raising the PH, will it stay there or most likely bounce back to the 6 like my tap water does? I just don't want to cause crazy PH fluctuations on top of everything else.......
[/quote]
Your fluctuating pH despite your water changes indicates to me that the kH level is probably low in your tank and tap. The baking soda will add carbonates to the water raising the kH and therefore your pH will rise and stabilize. It will stabilize the pH but when you do water changes you will have to add some baking soda back in. It doesnt take much so definately be careful. Like i said a tablespoon for every 50 gallons once a day until you reach your desired level. Once you reach the desired level and you do water changes thats where you will have to figure out how much baking soda you need to add and how often to maintain the pH level you desire. Its a cheap temporary fix until you can find a nice piece of limestone to the tank or maybe add some crushed coral in a filter bag and put it in your filter.


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## Shred Revolution (May 16, 2003)

have you been feeding them live gold fish feeders? Cause I bought some feeders from Petsmart and they had this on them and they were swimming all weird and going really slowly....I took them out and flushed them down the toilet


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Shred Revolution said:


> have you been feeding them live gold fish feeders? Cause I bought some feeders from Petsmart and they had this on them and they were swimming all weird and going really slowly....I took them out and flushed them down the toilet


No, no live food whatsoever. The only thing I've been feeding them for the last month or so is fresh shrimp from North Carolina and fresh bluefish from the Great South Bay (lol). I took the DIY approach and cut them up into small pieces added Zoe Con and froze them. I've been defrosting them and tossing those in.......


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Hi all, here's an update as of 8:00PM EST 10/24

Finally received my master test kit and other products from Dr. Foster & Smith. Great place BTW!

PH = 6.0 (I'm a little worried about this because even if the PH is lower than 6.0 it's still going to show up on the scale as 6. Should I get a ph adjuster or just go with arm & hammer.
Ammonia = 0 (Finally)
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate = 40 (You're the experts here, lead me in the right direction)

The fish are actually looking a lot better than they did when I first posted my thread. The Pacu is a night and day difference. The RBPs still have some cloud in their eyes but for the most part are looking a lot better.

Here's a list of things I've done to the tank since the day I originally posted this thread.

Changed 30% water the night of and added salt
Added Maracyn yesterday because issues were getting significantly worse
Added Stress Zyme and Stress Coat today

Now do you still feel that I have some issues with the paramaters? I believe the Nitrate should come down some, I'm assuming that some slight water changes might help take care of that and what about the low level of PH?

Thanks all!


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

As far as the nitrates go, I would just keep up on the gravel vacs and water changes. What kind of filtration are you running again, I haven't read the entire thread so sorry, if I missed it.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

You dont need a buffer product if you use A&H baking Soda. believe it or not the primary ingredient in the buffers are Bicarbonates which A&H baking soda is 100% pure. If you do not have any in the house I guess you can go out and spend the same amount of money for a small container of a buffer from the lfs but to me it is more cost effective getting a box at the supermarket. Plus there are a million and one uses for A&H







The fish are getting burn similar to ammonia burn but instead it is called acid burn from the dropping pH. So if you dont want to lose your fish and your nitrifying bacteria i would act quickly.


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

Do you know what the measurement of baking soda per galloon of water is, and how quickly it raises the ph?


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Slytooth13 said:


> Do you know what the measurement of baking soda per galloon of water is, and how quickly it raises the ph?


I added a tablespoon to a 55 gallon tank (prediluted) and saw a .4 lift in PH. went from 6.0 to 6.4.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

roccov12345 said:


> Do you know what the measurement of baking soda per galloon of water is, and how quickly it raises the ph?


I added a tablespoon to a 55 gallon tank (prediluted) and saw a .4 lift in PH. went from 6.0 to 6.4.
[/quote]

For today and t'row add a hair less than you did previously.


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Dr. Giggles..........help me out with this one.......if possible.

I will say that things are definitely on the up and up. Tank is crystal clear. The Pacu is at about 95%, same goes for the RBPs. The RBPs just have a little bit of cloudiness left in their eyes but very very minimal as compared to last week.

Now after I added the A&H I noticed a .4 lift immediately in the PH. Checked it yesterday and it was right back down to 6. Hmmm? what gives. So I decided to add another tablespoon as prescribed and it registered 6.6 about 10 min after the dosage. I'm going to check it again today when I get back from work but the fluctuation has got me puzzled. Maybe the test was faulty but then again anything is possible.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

I would think that the 6.0 test before you got the 6.6 reading was an error. Make sure that you dont touch the ends of the vial and be careful how you cap it. Touching the bottom part of the cap will alter your test. It may be possible that you are fluctuating due to an extremely low kH. The A&H will build that up but we need to test for that. If you have a lfs near you take 2 vials w/you. One with tap water the other with tank water and see if they can test the kH for you. Otherwise I would recommend getting one. This is one of those tests you dont use often but it is good to have in instances like this.


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Dr. Giggles said:


> I would think that the 6.0 test before you got the 6.6 reading was an error. Make sure that you dont touch the ends of the vial and be careful how you cap it. Touching the bottom part of the cap will alter your test. It may be possible that you are fluctuating due to an extremely low kH. The A&H will build that up but we need to test for that. If you have a lfs near you take 2 vials w/you. One with tap water the other with tank water and see if they can test the kH for you. Otherwise I would recommend getting one. This is one of those tests you dont use often but it is good to have in instances like this.


Ok, let me see what the results are of tonight's PH test. I'll go from there


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

roccov12345 said:


> I would think that the 6.0 test before you got the 6.6 reading was an error. Make sure that you dont touch the ends of the vial and be careful how you cap it. Touching the bottom part of the cap will alter your test. It may be possible that you are fluctuating due to an extremely low kH. The A&H will build that up but we need to test for that. If you have a lfs near you take 2 vials w/you. One with tap water the other with tank water and see if they can test the kH for you. Otherwise I would recommend getting one. This is one of those tests you dont use often but it is good to have in instances like this.


Ok, let me see what the results are of tonight's PH test. I'll go from there
[/quote]

Ok so I definitely think the reading was false because I'm showing a solid 6.4. So now, where should I be on the PH scale?


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Some updated pics.......Looking a hell of a lot better. Thanks everyone for all your help. Piranha fury rocks!


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

roccov12345 said:


> I would think that the 6.0 test before you got the 6.6 reading was an error. Make sure that you dont touch the ends of the vial and be careful how you cap it. Touching the bottom part of the cap will alter your test. It may be possible that you are fluctuating due to an extremely low kH. The A&H will build that up but we need to test for that. If you have a lfs near you take 2 vials w/you. One with tap water the other with tank water and see if they can test the kH for you. Otherwise I would recommend getting one. This is one of those tests you dont use often but it is good to have in instances like this.


Ok, let me see what the results are of tonight's PH test. I'll go from there
[/quote]

Ok so I definitely think the reading was false because I'm showing a solid 6.4. So now, where should I be on the PH scale?
[/quote]

6.4 is real good if you can keep it there. With your tap around 7.0 you shouldnt have a problem with weekly partial water changes. Just keep in mind if you need to add some A&H.


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Dr. Giggles said:


> I would think that the 6.0 test before you got the 6.6 reading was an error. Make sure that you dont touch the ends of the vial and be careful how you cap it. Touching the bottom part of the cap will alter your test. It may be possible that you are fluctuating due to an extremely low kH. The A&H will build that up but we need to test for that. If you have a lfs near you take 2 vials w/you. One with tap water the other with tank water and see if they can test the kH for you. Otherwise I would recommend getting one. This is one of those tests you dont use often but it is good to have in instances like this.


Ok, let me see what the results are of tonight's PH test. I'll go from there
[/quote]

Ok so I definitely think the reading was false because I'm showing a solid 6.4. So now, where should I be on the PH scale?
[/quote]

6.4 is real good if you can keep it there. With your tap around 7.0 you shouldnt have a problem with weekly partial water changes. Just keep in mind if you need to add some A&H.
[/quote]

Alright awesome, thanks much Doc


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## roccov12345 (Sep 26, 2008)

Ugh.....PH back down to 6 again. WTF?


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