# look at this beaut



## iNfecTion (Aug 18, 2003)




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## ChosenOne22 (Nov 23, 2003)




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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Wow that's awesome!

Whose is it?


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

going to have some great red on that flowerhorn..is it your?


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## iNfecTion (Aug 18, 2003)

Naw, I wished it was mine though. If the site I found it on was sellin it Id buy it in a heartbeat


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

AdioPunk said:


> Naw, I wished it was mine though. If the site I found it on was sellin it Id but it in a heartbeat










what would you do to it?


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## Jags (Aug 4, 2003)

isnt that a red texas?!?

that is some insane coloration!!!


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

holy crap.. thats nice. Not a SRT though, see how it has reflective pendians? much different then texas which doesnt have shiny pearls just white patches. This is a ridiculously Red Pendian kamfa


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Adio, whats the place that sells this fish!?


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## LaZy (Jun 17, 2003)

OMFG i would buy this bitch so fast but lol to far


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

now THAT is a good hybrid. Holy sh*t.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

I feel so insignificant.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

should look like this with more pearls.








or maybe more like this one


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## iNfecTion (Aug 18, 2003)

Thay are sellin it along with a lot of other high quality FH
http://exoticfins.com/exoticfins2.com.htm


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## iNfecTion (Aug 18, 2003)

http://www.exoticfins.com/Exoticfins.com.htm all the fhs for sale


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## iNfecTion (Aug 18, 2003)

Others for sale
KK Parrot








Nice FH


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

I find it a little bit odd that a picture of oinkys fish, lil booger is on this website 









I dont know what kind of deal they have got going on with other sellers, but to me it seems that alot of what is being shown on the page is not actually their inventory but examples from breeders of the fish... the entire last page is all pictures from flowerhorn4sale.com in malaysia... also there are other fish that appear to be in the posseision of other sellers which is a commong practice. If i knew more about them i might try to order something.


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## LaZy (Jun 17, 2003)

exoticfins is loacted in USA right and what state


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## IDONTKARE47 (Jan 5, 2004)

nice


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## StuartDanger (Aug 7, 2003)

cool pictures


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

PLEASE READ HERE
warning on exoticfins.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Drama in flowerhorn land. If I may, here is the 'natural' alternative to that fish...

(and it isn't rare or hand selected! )


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I actually like this one even better. It was listed as Hemichromis sp. "Kongo"
(and all of their offspring will look like this!







)


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

cool does it grow 14"long 7" tall and 3" thick? There is plenty of other colorful little feeder fish out there too.
and as far as magaizine shots go.. they are all the best of the best, i have never seen anyones picture of a synspila for example that measured up to the mag shots everyone always posts.. its the same percentage of coloful fish to dull ones. I want to see real hobbyist pictures of their colorful fish.

Ill still take a synspila though over a mediocre flowerhorn.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Feeders, huh? nice. Get a snakehead if that's your mindset.

I've seen tons of Hemichromis that had that awesome color. For color and size, did you see the Midas cichlids that they're pulling out of Florida? They are stunning!

btw, a huge fish is not always desirable. How many arapaima owners do you know?

As far as real hobbyist photos, did you miss my pics of the electric blue and the
congo tetra? Those were not from magazines.......
and they are _naturally_ like that. 
I challenge you to find a flowerhorn with that kind of blue 
(hint: you can't, my fish is covered in "electric" blue). 
I need to get my pics of my ngara peacock up too because that color is even better!









I still don't get this elitist flowerhorn nonsense. 
We are in danger of obscuring and forgetting the bounty of natural species... 
I dig the African peacocks but I'll steer a mile clear from their hybrids too...


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

Central American cichlids grow to a great managable size that make them the ultimate pet fish and adored around the world as they dont need more then a 75 gallon. There are other fish out there that are plenty colorful, but when you compare the square inches of color it just doesnt measure up.

I think the appeal with the FH is their interactivity and their massive struture. They beg constantly... and far outshine other personable fish like oscars in the personality department, as breeders will not sell fish that have bad personality.
If they were soley bred for color.. then they would have insane colors, but color is down on the list of desirable traits. Now i would be super impressed if i saw one of those fish that had a nuchal hump and was bright red! I would keep a colony of them if that were available.Can they have them? Im not saying these arent color really nice, just i dont like fish that arent square shaped anymore.

And the few midas pictures i have seen from florida are all very nice pictures, those fish look great. Just wondering if anyone has tank shots of them though as i have heard just like piranha they fade in captivity. This would something intresting to look into. They look great though. The one thing I would say they are lacking is multi dimesnsional color. which is hard to explain, but ill have an open house when im home so people can see one of the best flowerhorn in the country.

an example the holographic like look that isnt seen on any other fish









Just so no one is confused on my standpoint... i would definately take a larger pure cichlid with a massive nuchal hump over your typical flowerhorn. Im only intrested in colleting the best shaped fish i can find and dont care what they are.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Square?







I still don't get it. 
And I've seen everything beg from 
guppies to marine puffers (which really take the cake). 
My snakehead jumped out of the water, goldfish beg for crying out//-- 
...

Aw, heck, I need to just stop (...*moderating self* ).

Who am I to stop the genetic and evolutionary butchery?
Who needs the real world and it's natural wonders anyway?


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Although I appreciate your appreciation of
a healthy natural cichlid, that's cool.



> an example the holographic like look that isnt seen on any other fish


I wont even start. There are upwards of hundreds
of species of fish that have that effect. (Not that it isn't cool! )


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

well you dont see many people keeping wild mountain lions as pets either do you? There is always a place to respect nature and it treasures, but as long as most fish are sold for the purpose of entertainment.. they might as well be bred for that purpose. Most aquatic keepers are not intrested in the study of rare and endangered fish like the vasy majority of advanced hobbyist on fish boards. Thats a good reason why people opinions are so extreme on the subject

... at the least, im only trying to convince some people that instead of buying something like a parrot with a deformed face that has had needles stuck in it to create color.. to taking a look at something that is altered yet very healthy. I think keeping flowerhorn creates a mutual respect towards other simliar cichlids.. i dont think you would find a flowerhorn hobbyist that would snear at a nice midas or synspila.. or trimac for that matter as the fish came from all of those roots.

this is a pretty intresting golden apple strain. This would be considered a high dollar piece as most people are taking shape over color nowadays., its part of the whole feng shui mountain cycle.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

..... mountain lions?

I'm going to leave the mountain lion thing alone!









You're not giving the hobbyist enough credit.
Those that aren't as aware think even the simplest of fish
are cool (convicts, bettas, etc.). This is very easily oversimplified.

..... mountain lions?


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

acestro said:


> Drama in flowerhorn land. If I may, here is the 'natural' alternative to that fish...


 i still don't get it ..why are people so bugged out ..ready to attack the flowerhorn cause its mixs species..

i see it like a dog ..do you consider a dog anyless cause its a mutt? abomination is all i ever hear....omg flowerhorn.. .will if you feel like this..should we kill all mutts then?cause there not purebreed...i just don't get it...









live and let live


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Oh, wait, maybe you're just talking about 
the dumb American hobbyists that breed crap fish in
their basements.







(sorry, couldn't resist)

Can't have it both ways.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm down with live and let live, I've always had
good debates with PoseX.

I actually made that same error of comparing it to dogs, however.
It's not really comparable. Dogs are all one species (in theory).

I've also done a lot to be understanding of the FH thing. But the 
crappy American breeder comment and the disrespect for natural
species brings out a little fight in me.

It's probably because PoseX has to deal with hybrid hating everywhere
and has to be defensive.

I just want to be clear that I'll stand up for natural species and American 
hobbyists 10 times out of 10.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

well you said people should appreciate nature more? I thought maybe you meant they should replace their cats and dogs with mountain lions.. that way they could appreciate nature more. I think people appreciate things like mountain lions regardless or whether they are their pets or not lol I dont think my opinion is weird or anything on like something that has a unique shape and paying attention to tiny little details on the fish. I mean people have done that with dogs for thousands or years... they like all kinds short ones, fat ones, long ones,skinny ones. Im just wondering if this conversation would still exist if flowerhorn werent actually a hybrid. I have it in my head that by just using one particular fish.. simliar very impressive fish could be made that were not hybrids.

but from this point, i hope you can understand a little more of where i am coming from... If a kid sees a picture of a Vijea Synspila... just like the super nice one that has been posted over and over here.. then goes to a store and buys one, spends a year growing it up.. and having it turn out nothing like that fish, i think that is a real dispointment. And essential you have this even more so with crappy flowerhorn breeding and selling that goes on world wide and threatens that both hobbies. It would be great if that kid could go by the fish.. and he would end up with a 14" male with a massive hump, and not have to settle for something he didnt want. The one thing i am against more then anything is irresponsible breeding of fish.. like when people attempt to breed flowehorn with their low grade fish... then go and sell them to an lfs who in turn sells them for $20 a piece? damn thats wrong, and it hurts the market for pure fish.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I know I'm overposting, but selective breeding isn't bad. It's very interesting. There are many 'fringe' things that are bad around it (the culling, dumping unwanted fish, the deformed hybrids, etc.) that need to be addressed (and are addressed by PoseX, myself, others).

It is a matter of taste, I just want people to know that there are amazing natural alternatives out there and you get a whole evolutionary story with those fish.

I'm not even saying that I'd never have a flowerhorn, I just kinda like mixing it up! :bleh:


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Sorry, man, mountain lion example still doesn't cut it for me. Neither does the dog and cat deal. Mountain lions can hurt you, I'll not even go down the rest of the list on why that doesn't work.

Flowerhorns are not any more domesticated than other pet cichlids.
Yes, being a hybrid is an issue. There is an unpure aspect to that, which irks a lot of people for obvious reasons.

But I say have your flowerhorns, I may eventually get one too. Be aware that if you say they are *superior *I will go on another rant!








They are not superior, they're just an interesting alternative to true species.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

man, you edited your post and I need to post again!

Even you admit it is a rare FH that is a worthy or nice looking fish.
What percentage of flowerhorn fry would be like that?
Now, what percentage of synspilum fry are nice?
It is going to be a very comparable number.

I also know that a lot of cichlid development has to do with tank
conditions.... wait, I'm getting ahead of myself...


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

yeah the dog debate is tough.... Eventhough dogs are the same species... really, if we are to look at this subjectively, the kind of breeding that went into creating them is much more extreme then that of creating flowerhorn.

Just something to think about is the purpose... alot of dogs were bred for things like short stumpy legs and long bodies because it was cute?... they are some pretty major deformities if you ask me

with flowerhorn, it has always been more about the massive size... make a bigger stronger looking cichlid. Breeders thing more like they want the a big bodybuilder looking fish. just something to think about.

I wouldnt direspect all the hard working breeders that put time an effort into creating their fish, however one thing i believe they should consider is growing the fish a little more. the problem is see is that in nature, wimpy fish are destroyed fairly quickly. This leave behind the strong fish. Alot of what i see now, is that weak fish are allowed to live and reproduce and thus weakening the speciesin the hobby. just like the fish being caught in the everglades... those guys are sweet cause they are very fresh.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Very fresh?.... hmmmm.... I get what you mean. Like wild caught cichlids anywhere. Good point.

I think we came to another civilized understanding.

I truly think, however, that early tank development is important. I think I'll set that up in sci discussion when I'm more awake.

To lighten things up, is this fish square enough for ya? :smile:


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

what i lengthy debate lol and i have homework, but all these points that everyone has made has led for circle back to the original topic.

Those two fish shown above for sale by exoticfins are not actually or never were in their inventory... These guys are SCAMMERS... if you didnt catch the link above check, i knew something was fishy.. and i check and surely enough a bunch of people have been scammed by them. Showing all those great pictures and selling a bunch of crap in return. Above all else, i hate to see hobbyist disapointed in whatever they buy. Hopefully ill be able to begin my project within the next year.... and yes, when i have my creation ready for sale... it will be pricey, but it will also be worth it as i will have dedicated months of time in creating that single fish. Im also thinking about sending acestro one lol .. for having such good spirited debate


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

those fish are neat, i love they way they use their high bodies to hide... very cool, i have seen them in action on the imax lol


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Hey, I'm down!








Be sure to check out the thoughts I'll put forward on cichlid raising in sci disc soon, might help.

It's good to warn people of scams, I almost wonder if pfury should have a forum listing scams that are out there so people can double check them before they lose money.

Good luck with the homework!

Also, I need to apologize for hijaking the thread.
I know I always tell people not to!

Do as I say, not as I do!









okay, I'm going home...


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