# Plants and water condition



## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

I have another question about my water conditon and how it will affect my plants. I tested my water last night and the PH 8.0 which I know is a little high, but the KH 7.0 is this to high. and the GH 1.0. I have 75gal tank at 1.6wpg. I will be dosing mono potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate. I also will use flourish comprehensive. I have 1 Elong in the tank. Will I run into problems with the high ph and the kh if so If I can get the ph down a little do you think this will help?


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Bump


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

well, with your pH, you are ok with Java ferns, and moss.. and most easier to grow plants, like E tenellus, cryptocorynes, Anubias, hornwart, Sagitaria subulata stuff like that. That is fine

High KH is ok with all easier plants plants I think. Shoot, I would just get what you want that isn't too delicate, and see what happens. Should be alright, if you are dosing proper levels of nutrients.. which it sounds like you have a good idea on that
Keep us posted


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Well the only reason why I know anything about the ferts is because of you. I had another post about ferts and you told me all kinds of stuff and gave me links. So I wanted to plant some of these or all do you think I can grow these with my water condition? 
Background----Asain ambulia, amazon sword, giant hygro and green hyggro.
Middle-----Temple plant, Cryptocoryne walkeri, 
Front-----Dwarf sag, Cuban broad leaf chain, Pygmy crypt, Anubias nana, ans Narrow leaf nana.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> Well the only reason why I know anything about the ferts is because of you. I had another post about ferts and you told me all kinds of stuff and gave me links. So I wanted to plant some of these or all do you think I can grow these with my water condition?
> Background----Asain ambulia, amazon sword, giant hygro and green hyggro.
> Middle-----Temple plant, Cryptocoryne walkeri,
> Front-----Dwarf sag, Cuban broad leaf chain, Pygmy crypt, Anubias nana, ans Narrow leaf nana.


I think so.. some of the plants im not sure of, (I know the genus names better







) But I think you will do great if you stay on top of it in the beginning especially. 
It is important that in the beginning you do a lot of maintenance while the plants are acclimating to your setup.. also be sure to stuff the tank with as many plants as possible..


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

OK, I really apreciate all the help you have given me.

What do you mean by maintenance?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> What do you mean by maintenance?


Glad you asked!
Maintenance in a planted tank includes: water changes, 1ce 2ce a month (if no diatom problem) rinsing filter media, wiping any dust, or green spot algea off of the glass, pruning dying+algea infested leaves, removing anything that is growing that shouldn't be growing in the tank..lol -tweaking your scape a bit if necissary, and if there is a problem, either reading about it, asking someone about it, or trying to eliminate your problem in some way.
ugh.. I hope that is understandable..lol


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

What is diatom problem? Thats the only part I don't understand.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Diatoms 
Common Name(s): Brown Algae

Although diatoms are commonly (and mistakenly) referred to as brown algae, their closest relatives are golden algae. The skeleton (cell walls) of a diatom is made of hydrated silica embedded in an organic matrix. Each wall is composed of two halves that fit together like a shoe box and lid. Some diatoms can move around by squirting stuff out of slits in their cell walls. There are about 10,000 known diatom species.

The photosynthetic pigment of diatoms is brown. In the summer waters of a healthy pond, diatoms can grow to such numbers that submerged plants can have the appearance of being covered with a brown mud which the microscope reveals as a dense growth consisting entirely of diatoms.

Source: Chuck Huffine on APD 10/01 
How to Treat: The most common myth about diatoms is that they are caused by a certain light level (some say low, others high) or just old bulbs. In my experience, diatoms grow in all light levels from low to high whether the bulb is old or not. Diatoms are invariably caused and sustained by excess nutrients in the water column. *Silica * is the most important of these in the case of diatoms. However, removing silica, which can cost serious $$$, is not necessarily the best method for tackling diatom infestations.

IME, the two best solutions for diatom control are Otocinclus catfish or simply waiting them out. A half-dozen healthy otos will clear a medium-sized tank (~55 gallon) in a few days and keep it clean 
after. Waiting the diatoms out means scraping them from tank surfaces and letting the filter and water changes remove them from the water column which removes both the diatoms and consequently silica (and other consumed nutrients) from the tank water. Eventually, the plague will peak and then fade away rather quickly. For the impatient, there are silica removal resins that will take the silica out of water, but they can be a pain and are not cost effective. Or you could use a reverse osmosis filter to remove practically all minerals from tap water, but RO can cause as many problems as it cures in some cases and it is certainly expensive both in time and money.

~taken from APC


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok, I understand know. Thanks for the explanation. Also when you say "wiping off the dust" what do you use for this? A cloth or sponge? I have been trying to get my Elong. used to the light but he must see his reflection or something because he swims around attacking the glass only when the light is on. I'm sure it will get used to the light.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> Ok, I understand know. Thanks for the explanation. Also when you say "wiping off the dust" what do you use for this? A cloth or sponge? I have been trying to get my Elong. used to the light but he must see his reflection or something because he swims around attacking the glass only when the light is on. I'm sure it will get used to the light.


I just wipe the leaves off with a sponge, toothbrush or even my hand. The fish will get used to his lights.. Just be sure to give him a place to hide from it, like tons of plant cover


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Cool thats what I thought. And my Elong is starting to get used to the light I have been leaving it on longer and longer every day. I have one more question I think it will be the last one untill I get the plants and get everything going. But there could be more. But I wanted to know of a good and cheap place online to buy the plants from. If you know of any websites or know of somebody who is selling any plants. Thanks again I can't thank you enough for all the info you have given me.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

^^I'm happy that I could be of some help! 
I always check aquabid, and aquaticplantcentral for plants. There are some great hobbyists that are so very happy to get rid of their trimmings for shipping and a few dollars for the trouble of sending them.. The latter here is your best bet, hands down.. for price, quality, and quantity.
I usually have plants for sale, but I have lots of ppl (as usual) that I am trying to hook up with decent deals. 
But here is a thread just in case


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Hey Dippy I have another question. I am going to be using mono potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate from Greg Watson.com, Also you told me to get flourish comprehensive is flourish excel the same thing? I'm asking because I went to Greg Watson.com and was wanting to order everything at once but they don't sell flourish comprehensive what else can I use that they sell? or should I just go to the lfs for this.

Also can you think of anything else I may need in line with the ferts or am I good to go with what is stated above.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Since Dippys not on I will jump in. 
Flourish Comp is a collection of Micro nutrients. Flourish excell is liquid organic Carbon. If you're not using a CO2 system you should def get the Excell or some source of carbon as it is the building block of the planted aquarium. 
If you don't wanna mess with the dry you can of course get flourish products at any good lfs. Or order online from www.drfostersmith.com

The GW equivliant to florish comp would be the CSM+B Plantex. 
From what I've read people still prefer the Flourish mix over the


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

So flourish excel can replace flourish comp? Does excel have all the nutrients that comp has or will I need both. And I am not using co2 injection. Can you think of any other nutrients that I need?


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

nswhite said:


> So flourish excel can replace flourish comp? Does excel have all the nutrients that comp has or will I need both. And I am not using co2 injection. Can you think of any other nutrients that I need?


No. Flourish Comp is MICRO nutrients. Flourish Excell is Carbon. You will need both if you are not pushing co2 to the tank. As well as a regiment of MACRO nutrients. Those can be bought in bulk thru Gregwatson. Or you can get the premix PMDD. however it is reccomended to get the individual break downs so that you can better manage your levels of nitrates and phosphorous and such.


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

> I am going to be using mono potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate from Greg Watson.com


I already am going to use the 2 above. With the flourish comp. So get some excel also for carbon. Then I should be good on all ferts?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> Since Dippys not on I will jump in.
> Flourish Comp is a collection of Micro nutrients. Flourish excell is liquid organic Carbon. If you're not using a CO2 system you should def get the Excell or some source of carbon as it is the building block of the planted aquarium.
> If you don't wanna mess with the dry you can of course get flourish products at any good lfs. Or order online from www.drfostersmith.com
> 
> ...

















-Great job Sunshine









Ya, I still use plantex CSM+B, but I want to use Flourish comp when that runs out.. lol I tell people that the flourish is better because.. well, it is! It has more useful stuff in it, and it is easier for the plants to take in. But, in defense of the CSM+B, it surely works.








(and is much cheaper!)


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok so am I good to go If I buy all stated above? Or is there anything else you can think of that I might need.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> Ok so am I good to go If I buy all stated above? Or is there anything else you can think of that I might need.


Ya, CSM+B is a good choice, because of price, and it works.. the flourish comprehensive is better, but more $$ as we stated b4.
You Should get the chelated iron as well, if you have strong light. I add just as much iron as I do CSM+B, simply because in a day it is all gone.. plants suck that in like candy


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> -Great job Sunshine


What can I say you taught me well.


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok, So I'm going to get mono potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate, I'm also going to try CSM+B Plantex. And last flourish excel and that should be all I need right? If there is anything else please let me know cause I am going to order today and want to order everything at once. Thanks for all your help dippy and blacksunshine420


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok I got my ferts mono potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate, and CSM+B Plantex and last flourish excel. With the first three what should I start out with dosing. I have tried to read on GW site but coudn't seem to find the info I'm looking for. Like a tablespoon of each? I have a 75gal with 1.6wpg and a 4inch Elong.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> Ok I got my ferts mono potassium phosphate and potassium nitrate, and CSM+B Plantex and last flourish excel. With the first three what should I start out with dosing. I have tried to read on GW site but coudn't seem to find the info I'm looking for. Like a tablespoon of each? I have a 75gal with 1.6wpg and a 4inch Elong.


a tablespoon in your water?? *gosh no..!!!*

75g with 1.6wpg.. Hmm it really is a guess on your nitrate and phosphate.. best thing to do, IMO, is dilute 1 tablespoon of each in their own 250ml bottle of distilled water (or tap, distilled is better though--no junk)
That way you have 3 bottles.. 1 nitrate, 1 phosphate, and 1 micro. then check your nitrates and phosphates, and check where your params are. You want between 10-25ppm nitrate, and .5-2ppm phosphate
You will have to go from there, checking it as you go. If it is at 10ppm and .5, obviously you want to add some of each, to get it in the target params for the rest of the week.
Micros, well I have no idea how much plant mass you have in the tank, it is best that you have a lot. If you have a decent amount of plants, I would say add 15ml's(3 flourish bottle capfuls) after your weekly 50% water change.
You have 1.6 wpg, so dosing 1ce per week will be ok


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok thanks. I just want to be sure before I start dosing. I don't want to hurt my Elong. Or over do it. But thanks for all the help I will get a pic up soon. Hopefully I don't have anymore questions I think I have asked just about everything I could possibly think of.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> Ok thanks. I just want to be sure before I start dosing. I don't want to hurt my Elong. Or over do it. But thanks for all the help I will get a pic up soon. Hopefully I don't have anymore questions I think I have asked just about everything I could possibly think of.


Don't worry about the amount of questions, I would rather you be successful in your tank, than feel wierd about asking any question that might help


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Thanks thats always good to know. I'm sure I will have questions just because this is the first time for live plants. What type of containers to you mix up everything in does it have a lid? Do you have pic or a place I could buy the same as you use? Thanks again.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> Thanks thats always good to know. I'm sure I will have questions just because this is the first time for live plants. What type of containers to you mix up everything in does it have a lid? Do you have pic or a place I could buy the same as you use? Thanks again.


I use old 250lm Flourish bottles, but Im sure you could get 250, or 500ml bottles from somewhere


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

How long would you say it stays good in the bottles once its been mixed with water?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

nswhite said:


> How long would you say it stays good in the bottles once its been mixed with water?


for a good while, I keep mine in the fridge, not sure if it helps. I'd say you are fine


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

sounds good. Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I will talk to you soon.


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok, I got another question this time about specific plants. First Red Melon Sword or Echinodorus Barthii but I wanted to know if this will work in my tank at 1.6wpg and using all ferts micro and macro? Second is Echinodorus Horemanii 'Red' Same question for this plant will it work? Also do you know of any other red or any plant thats not green that I could use? Thanks again for all the help.


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