# NEW TANK



## Σņįġmã (Mar 25, 2006)

YO
I am getting a new tank next week and it will hold 2X the water i have now...i will be using the filter i have now will twice the load of water mean it will hav to start to cycle agian?
i no its stupid but im abit of anoob at water chem..i ask the boys








thx for yor time


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

if the bioload is the same (so don't add any new fish) you'll be fine


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## Σņįġmã (Mar 25, 2006)

boontje said:


> if the bioload is the same (so don't add any new fish) you'll be fine


cheers mate big weight of my mind


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

ya ull stillneed to start the cycle over again.

But to help out wiht it take all your old tank water and put it into your new one. Then refil with the amount of water needed.


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## Σņįġmã (Mar 25, 2006)

rocker said:


> ya ull stillneed to start the cycle over again.
> 
> But to help out wiht it take all your old tank water and put it into your new one. Then refil with the amount of water needed.










good idea thx for tha post dude


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

rocker said:


> ya ull stillneed to start the cycle over again.
> 
> But to help out wiht it take all your old tank water and put it into your new one. Then refil with the amount of water needed.


beneficial bacteria are not floating in the water, but are almost entirely on your biological filter media, so transferring the filter will do the job fine
you can easily use new, clean water (as long as it's dechlorinated of course, because the chlorine would kill the bacteria)

it's in fact better to use new water (no nitrates and other harmful stuff in it)


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

ur stupid really.

hes getting a new tank, what dont u undertsand.

do u want his piranhas to die?
no matter what u have to cycle the tank.

"beneficial bacteria are not floating in the water"
wtf, beneficial bacteria is in the water thats the point of a cycled tank.

by taking his old water and putitng it in the new tank he will still have all the beneficial bacteria he needs for the new one, thus minimizing the amount of time for a complete cycle. Its like hes doing a water change. hes taking out some water and adding new one. In this case it 50% water change without the changing of water get it? hes getting a tank that can hold double his water. Lets say if he has a 10 gallon right now, he wants to get a 20. Instead of throwing out all that good water he can put it in his 20 which should fill 50% of the tank, when he adds another 50% it will be ful thus a "50% water change".

and just because u put your old filter into a new tank doesnt mean it will cycle on spot and be ready right there, believe me if that was true i wouldnt spend weeks being a responsible fishkeeper and waiting for a cycle to end.


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## Kemper1989 (Feb 14, 2005)

The Majority of your Beneficial Bacteria is growing on the substrates and the filter and decorations. You can't compare the cycled tanks water to the Filter Media.

If you want your new tank to cycle quicker you need to put some substrate from the old tank into the new one.

No offense Rocker but I dont think you know what your talking about.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

all i said was he needs to cycle his new tank.

form your previous tank wiladding the already cycled water l help the cycle out even more.

but whatever though this is what i have done and it works.


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## Kemper1989 (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes he does need to cycle his tank if he isn't using the same Filter.

If he is just going to transfer his fish and old filter over to his new tank which were in his old tank then that old filter should do just fine at keeping the bioload down because there isn't an increase.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

i dont care anymore









ive said what ive said


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

rocker said:


> "beneficial bacteria are not floating in the water"
> wtf, beneficial bacteria is in the water thats the point of a cycled tank.
> 
> by taking his old water and putitng it in the new tank he will still have all the beneficial bacteria he needs for the new one, thus minimizing the amount of time for a complete cycle. Its like hes doing a water change. hes taking out some water and adding new one. In this case it 50% water change without the changing of water get it? hes getting a tank that can hold double his water. Lets say if he has a 10 gallon right now, he wants to get a 20. Instead of throwing out all that good water he can put it in his 20 which should fill 50% of the tank, when he adds another 50% it will be ful thus a "50% water change".
> ...


you truly have no idea what you are talking about
why do you need fitration and biological filter media if the bacteria are not in the filter?

if the bacteria were in the water, then a 50% water change would remove half of the bacteria
Many people do large water changes without any problem


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

ok the last time i will post here.

READ MY FUKING POST
1) I never said ANYWHERE that theres no bacteria in the filter

2)read my post, i siad it almost like a 50% water change WITHOUT ACTUALLY CHANGING THE WATER. Read my post further and it will explain y its like a 50% water change with the water change.

3) I never said dont use the filter, use the filter i dont honestly care. I said was put your old water with the new one to help out with the cycle

4) Im dont with this thread


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## Kemper1989 (Feb 14, 2005)

rocker said:


> ok the last time i will post here.
> 
> READ MY FUKING POST
> 1) I never said ANYWHERE that theres no bacteria in the filter
> ...


/\ Makes no sense what so ever.

Im not out to attack anybody but I hope your 35 Posts a day make more sense then this one and are atleast correctly answering the persons question.

I have no problem with someone being wrong when answering a thread (Im sure im wrong quite often but I always return to my posts to learn what the right answer is) as long as they are willing to learn why they were wrong so they're more helpful when the next post like this comes up, because trust me this Cycle question gets asked alot.

So dont throw a hissy fit when we are trying to help you and are telling you why your post is wrong.


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## sassyO (Jan 30, 2006)

k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

i cant believe im back in this thread.

1) my post isnt wrong, it doesn hurt to add some old water to a new tank.

2) my 35 posts per day isnt bad. If u havnt noticed for several days i have been posting alot and before then i have been posting quite little.

and my posts for the past couple days have nothing to do with this discussion. Really there a betetr post whores than me. Im not going to mentio names (thankfully) but those ppl know who they are.

3) im not out to flame anyone either, i guess im just agrivated.

4) Can we stop derailing this thread as it has been derailed enough. Be a good member and PM if u still want to talk im happy with that.












sassyV said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


iwould give it a couple days. several maybe.

And i think u have just solved this "argument" y not just do both?








your right doing both wont harm anyone and most likely be helpful to him.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

sassyV said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


yes, but if he uses 100% new water (dechlorinated, right temp,etc.) and the established filter, then his fish can go in right away too


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## oryschakgp (Nov 5, 2005)

boontje said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


yes, but if he uses 100% new water (dechlorinated, right temp,etc.) and the established filter, then his fish can go in right away too
[/quote]

Possibly but until you know the water parameters are ideal, you shouldn't just throw the fish in.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

zombietime said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


yes, but if he uses 100% new water (dechlorinated, right temp,etc.) and the established filter, then his fish can go in right away too
[/quote]

Possibly but until you know the water parameters are ideal, you shouldn't just throw the fish in.
[/quote]
what parameters do you think are not ideal?
so what would you do then?


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## Markus_m (Jan 31, 2006)

boontje said:


> "beneficial bacteria are not floating in the water"
> wtf, beneficial bacteria is in the water thats the point of a cycled tank.
> 
> by taking his old water and putitng it in the new tank he will still have all the beneficial bacteria he needs for the new one, thus minimizing the amount of time for a complete cycle. Its like hes doing a water change. hes taking out some water and adding new one. In this case it 50% water change without the changing of water get it? hes getting a tank that can hold double his water. Lets say if he has a 10 gallon right now, he wants to get a 20. Instead of throwing out all that good water he can put it in his 20 which should fill 50% of the tank, when he adds another 50% it will be ful thus a "50% water change".
> ...


you truly have no idea what you are talking about
why do you need fitration and biological filter media if the bacteria are not in the filter?

if the bacteria were in the water, then a 50% water change would remove half of the bacteria
Many people do large water changes without any problem
[/quote]

The guy does know what hes talking about...If you read it slowly you will understand. It is like doing a 50% water change, if you put all of your water, substrate, filters, decorations into a tank twice as big then when adding 50% new water it is like doing a 50% water change. I think he was just trying to give an example. The point he was trying to make was to make sure the tank doesn't re-cycle as such a large water change could cause the tank to do so...although it shouldn't in most cases, occasionally it does. And whoever mentioned more beneficial bacteria is in the substrate and filter rather the water is correct. The guy has 3000 posts im sure hes learned a thing or two, and provided advice to many members on the site.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Markus_m said:


> "beneficial bacteria are not floating in the water"
> wtf, beneficial bacteria is in the water thats the point of a cycled tank.
> 
> by taking his old water and putitng it in the new tank he will still have all the beneficial bacteria he needs for the new one, thus minimizing the amount of time for a complete cycle. Its like hes doing a water change. hes taking out some water and adding new one. In this case it 50% water change without the changing of water get it? hes getting a tank that can hold double his water. Lets say if he has a 10 gallon right now, he wants to get a 20. Instead of throwing out all that good water he can put it in his 20 which should fill 50% of the tank, when he adds another 50% it will be ful thus a "50% water change".
> ...


you truly have no idea what you are talking about
why do you need fitration and biological filter media if the bacteria are not in the filter?

if the bacteria were in the water, then a 50% water change would remove half of the bacteria
Many people do large water changes without any problem
[/quote]

The guy does know what hes talking about...If you read it slowly you will understand. It is like doing a 50% water change, if you put all of your water, substrate, filters, decorations into a tank twice as big then when adding 50% new water it is like doing a 50% water change. I think he was just trying to give an example. The point he was trying to make was to make sure the tank doesn't re-cycle as such a large water change could cause the tank to do so...although it shouldn't in most cases, occasionally it does. And whoever mentioned more beneficial bacteria is in the substrate and filter rather the water is correct. The guy has 3000 posts im sure hes learned a thing or two, and provided advice to many members on the site.
[/quote]
"If you read it slowly you will understand" you think I'm a moron or what?

I do understand what he meant with the 50% water change. But give me one good reason why you want to re-use this water? The idea of water changes is to remove toxic products from the tank, so why not use 100% fresh water. The only reason why a large water change could make your tank to recyle is if the water is not dechlorinated, or a huge temp difference. So there is no problem to put 100% new water in the tank, dechlorinate, get it to the right temp, and then transfer your filter.

And transferring the filter and fish without using "cycled water" will not kill the fish. That's what I was referring to.


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## Canso (Jun 19, 2005)

boontje said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


yes, but if he uses 100% new water (dechlorinated, right temp,etc.) and the established filter, then his fish can go in right away too
[/quote]
100% water change is not healthy. Yes!! use the old tank water.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Canso said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


yes, but if he uses 100% new water (dechlorinated, right temp,etc.) and the established filter, then his fish can go in right away too
[/quote]
100% water change is not healthy. Yes!! use the old tank water.
[/quote]
why?


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## Markus_m (Jan 31, 2006)

boontje said:


> k just curious. So, if he puts all the water from his old tank into the new tank and uses the same filter as the old tank had and puts that in the new tank ....and then adds 50% water ....his fish can then go in right away?


yes, but if he uses 100% new water (dechlorinated, right temp,etc.) and the established filter, then his fish can go in right away too
[/quote]
100% water change is not healthy. Yes!! use the old tank water.
[/quote]
why?
[/quote]

whos to say the tank wont go through another cycle?


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## Canso (Jun 19, 2005)

Why?

are you joking???? Example: I have a sponge filter in the sump of my large tank always cycled. When i remove the eggs to the 10gal tank i use 100% large tank water and sponge filter. Water para. don't change at all. When i use 100% tap water everything is unstable for the first week. Ph, hardness, nitrite I even get traces of ammonia. So why not use the old tank water? Your tap water will never be the same as esablished tank water. There are decorations like drift wood that would change water para. alot that you usualy don't even test for.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Canso said:


> Why?
> 
> are you joking???? Example: I have a sponge filter in the sump of my large tank always cycled. When i remove the eggs to the 10gal tank i use 100% large tank water and sponge filter. Water para. don't change at all. When i use 100% tap water everything is unstable for the first week. Ph, hardness, nitrite I even get traces of ammonia. So why not use the old tank water? Your tap water will never be the same as esablished tank water. There are decorations like drift wood that would change water para. alot that you usualy don't even test for.


true, if you change the water parameters on purpose for example by using peat, or lots of driftwood that still releases acid tannings, you should keep that in mind
if you don't do that, your pH and hardness should be pretty close to the parameters of your tap water. At least it is in my tank and I have quite a lot of driftwood too (but these pieces have already been 'used' and don't give any tannings nor change my pH). If the characteristics of the water in the tank are very different from the tap water, it would mean that every water change would make the parameters in the tank fluctuate (of course less fluctuations then when doing a 100% change, but it would be every time over again).


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## Kemper1989 (Feb 14, 2005)

boontje said:


> Why?
> 
> are you joking???? Example: I have a sponge filter in the sump of my large tank always cycled. When i remove the eggs to the 10gal tank i use 100% large tank water and sponge filter. Water para. don't change at all. When i use 100% tap water everything is unstable for the first week. Ph, hardness, nitrite I even get traces of ammonia. So why not use the old tank water? Your tap water will never be the same as esablished tank water. There are decorations like drift wood that would change water para. alot that you usualy don't even test for.


true, if you change the water parameters on purpose for example by using peat, or lots of driftwood that still releases acid tannings, you should keep that in mind
if you don't do that, your pH and hardness should be pretty close to the parameters of your tap water. At least it is in my tank and I have quite a lot of driftwood too (but these pieces have already been 'used' and don't give any tannings nor change my pH). If the characteristics of the water in the tank are very different from the tap water, it would mean that every water change would make the parameters in the tank fluctuate (of course less fluctuations then when doing a 100% change, but it would be every time over again).
[/quote]

exactly....


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

boontje said:


> "If you read it slowly you will understand" you think I'm a moron or what?
> 
> I do understand what he meant with the 50% water change. But give me one good reason why you want to re-use this water? The idea of water changes is to remove toxic products from the tank, so why not use 100% fresh water. The only reason why a large water change could make your tank to recyle is if the water is not dechlorinated, or a huge temp difference. So there is no problem to put 100% new water in the tank, dechlorinate, get it to the right temp, and then transfer your filter.
> 
> And transferring the filter and fish without using "cycled water" will not kill the fish. That's what I was referring to.


omg omg omg omg your so dumb

wowowowowowowowowowoowwoo

im calling an expert in here


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## Kemper1989 (Feb 14, 2005)

Shouldn't do more then a 50% water change unless after a cycle in order to get the Ammonia out.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

i am not talking about a 50% water change, theres no chainging in water involved theres...u know what nvm never fuking mind

doctortvec help us


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS LANGUAGE OR POT SHOTS IN THE WATER CHEMISTRY FORUM. YOU ARE ALL WARNED.

Ok, that said...

There is no point to use any of the old water. You WILL HAVE NO BENEFITS bacteria wise by doing this.

As long as the bioload stays the same, you will not have to worry about the cycle, pending that the media stays wet between moving the filters.

Also, be sure that your parameters are similar when setting up the new tank. Keep things like pH, temp, etc, as close as you can.



Kemper1989 said:


> Shouldn't do more then a 50% water change unless after a cycle in order to get the Ammonia out.


That too is incorrect. As long as you keep your parameters close you could in essence do a 100% water change. There have been occasions that I have done 75% to other peoples tanks because they were in such disarray. Of course the water going in was of similar parameters as the water going out.


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## WillieWonka1 (Mar 20, 2006)




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## Blue (Mar 23, 2005)

> okay.. one question doctor.
> 
> Say i'm setting up a tank 50% larger , and used some of the filter media, substrate, and cycle.
> Would I still have to completely cycle the tank? or could I just throw a bunch of feeders in there, and moniter it for a week or so?
> Or would it be better to do a complete fishless cycle? Thanks... Fred


No you would not "completely" cycle the tank. Assuming the media in the filter is cycled the bactera will provide ample oxidation of the nitrogen molecules.

You will be fine to add your fish assuming all of the water is dechlorinated in the tank before you transfer the media/substrate/filter. If it is not dechlorinated first it will kill off the nitrifiers and consequently there will not be enough good guys to detoxify the toxic nitrogen molecules -> your tank will be poisonous until adequate nitrifiers grow back.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

WillieWonka1 said:


> Shouldn't do more then a 50% water change unless after a cycle in order to get the Ammonia out.


That too is incorrect. As long as you keep your parameters close you could in essence do a 100% water change. There have been occasions that I have done 75% to other peoples tanks because they were in such disarray. Of course the water going in was of similar parameters as the water going out.
[/quote]

okay.. one question doctor.

Say i'm setting up a tank 50% larger , and used some of the filter media, substrate, and cycle. 
Would I still have to completely cycle the tank? or could I just throw a bunch of feeders in there, and moniter it for a week or so?
Or would it be better to do a complete fishless cycle? Thanks... Fred
[/quote]

If you are swapping established filters onto the new tank, with the same bioload, you will be fine right away.

I have upgraded from 20 - 75 with the filters off the 20, fresh water, and no issues whatsoever.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

WillieWonka1 said:


> Shouldn't do more then a 50% water change unless after a cycle in order to get the Ammonia out.


That too is incorrect. As long as you keep your parameters close you could in essence do a 100% water change. There have been occasions that I have done 75% to other peoples tanks because they were in such disarray. Of course the water going in was of similar parameters as the water going out.
[/quote]

okay.. one question doctor.

Say i'm setting up a tank 50% larger , and used some of the filter media, substrate, and cycle. 
Would I still have to completely cycle the tank? or could I just throw a bunch of feeders in there, and moniter it for a week or so?
Or would it be better to do a complete fishless cycle? Thanks... Fred [/quote]

I got this one Doc, no matter how much bigger the tank is as long as the bioload is the same and you transfer the established filter you will not have another cycle. The product "cycle" does not contain the proper nitrifying bacteria so for cycling purposes it is garbage. You can also change all the substrate if you choose, but i would use it unless your hell bent on a change. Just acclimate the fish to the new tank like you would a new purchase in case you are not sure if parameters are different for example pH and kH.


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## WillieWonka1 (Mar 20, 2006)




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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

well what do u know i was wrong.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

WillieWonka1 said:


> I think i didn't make it clear that i only took some of the medium out of an established filter and put it into a new one and also some of the gravel and such and put it into the new tank.
> 
> thanks


you'll have to cycle your tank, but it will go faster when you seed with established media 
use the fishless method, it's quicker


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