# Nitrite/nitrate Issue - Getting Worried



## TyDomi

I have been perusing this site for approximately two or three months now and have finally decided to register (not typically the kind of guy who does this type of thing). I want to ensure that as new owners, we are on the right track with our new red bellies.

We have 5, four to six inch red belly piranhas in a 120 gallon tank. We picked up these lonely critters from someone who inherited them with his house. They were kept in the basement and poorly maintained. They didn't know much about them. Prior to purchasing them, we did loads of research and wanted to make sure we were on point.

We ran a cycle with some smaller fish (two guppies, a molly, and a red swordtail). We ran this for a couple of weeks along with adding Nutrafin Cycle. Once we picked up the piranhas, we noticed that the smallest one seemed to be having a rough go. He was covered in a white film and when swabbed with a cotton swab it came off black. We immediately went to our local fish store for some insight along with a picture. They were baffled by this "disease" and subscribed us to use Bifuran+ (a yellow powder).

This seemed to clear things up with this piranha almost immediately. He was more active and was no longer almost laying on his side. We decided at around the same time to purchase some ghost shrimp to clean up some of the excess food in the tank which lasted about a week until all were eaten









At around the same time we decided to purchase a canister filter to go along with our AquaClear hang on back filter to aid with some of the waste removal. Once the recommended treatment for the piranha was complete, we did a large water change (approximately 50%) to take some of the yellow colouring away from the tank. This took place approximately 6 weeks ago. About 1.5 weeks later we noticed the tank was super cloudy. After doing some reading, it was uncovered that this is probably a bacterial bloom.

After further research it appears as though we fostered the "perfect storm" of things that could happen. A new filter which needed to be cycled, an aquarium antibiotic which would kill bad bacteria as well as the good, and may have been a little hasty in terms of our large water change to clear things up. The bacterial bloom lasted for approximately 1.5 to 2 weeks and then cleared up. However since then we have been battling extremely high nitrite levels. We have tried to do PWC's of about 25% every couple of days, we have tried 10% water changes every day, we have tried larger water changes of about 33% while vaccuuming the gravel to clean it out.

Our problem is still with extremely high nitrite levels. I'm not sure what else we can do to get this under control. We have been dealing with water changes more regularly than we had expected to try and cope. We have even purchased the Colony product to aid and have added it in when doing these weekly larger water changes. We have also switched from NutraFin to SeaChem Prime for when we add new water to the tank.

Just yesterday we also noticed the piranhas going to the surface to gasp for air. We added in more ghost shrimp after feeding the piranha in hopes that they would leave them be while on a full stomach (again for more waste removal). Instead they ate 40 ghost shrimp in a matter of 3 hours. We have one Panther crab which hides all day.

We have lowered our water level to create more oxygen in the tank while we try to sort things out with our high nitrite and nitrate levels.

I have done a water test tonight to start keeping track of our results and hopefully someone here can provide some insight.

Ammonia - 0 PPM
Nitrite - 5.0 PPM
Nitrate - 3.0 PPM

I would like to resolve this issue as soon as possible and hoping that someone out there has a solution for us. The last thing we want to do is lose any of our P's.


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## Snowbed

Your tank, by the sounds of things is till mid cycle; by adding a new cannister filter, all the previous bacteria that your tank relied on has gone, and essentially you will just have to wait for the tank to cycle again. I would suggest a 10% water change every day until your nitrite comes way down. Then change to 15% every 2-3 days and so forth, gradually getting back to a 25-30% every week. 
Your nitrate is fine anything upto 4ppm i believe. Make sure you keep any bits of un eaten food cleared up within a few hours.

Good luck and keep everyone posted.


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## TyDomi

We had left our hang on back filter and are still running it with the canister filter. I figured if we left it running it wouldn't need to cycle again, and the reason for the canister was just to help with some of the piranha waste.

I think our issue had more to do with the Bifuran+ over anything else, however I am new at this and could be wrong. Has anyone ever used this in the past?

As for cleaning the tank, we vaccuum the gravel once a week. We also remove any excess food from the tank once our P's finish eating.

If we are still mid-cycle, this "phase" has been lasting for about 3 weeks or so. It seems like longer and I'm not sure how long it takes for things to balance. Maybe this is us being impatient with things, our fingers are crossed either way.

I think we are doing everything right, it just seems to be taking forever. We appreciate any and all feedback/insight (so thank you Snowbed) and are hoping things get sorted soon!


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## TyDomi

Day 2:

We have done another water reading tonight, we have not done a water change yet.

Ammonia - 0.0 PPM
Nitrite - 2.0 PPM
Nitrate - 3.0 PPM

No major changes in terms of these parameters. A slight decrease in terms of nitrites, but nothing extremely noticeable.


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## Snowbed

Hi mate

Leaving the other filter running was a good idea. Remember the cannister filter still needs to cylcle though, and gain all the good bacteria. If your nitrites have dropped, and youve not done any water changed for a few days, this is good - once they drop, they should stay that way, and tank will be cylced. Do another water test in a few days and if your nitrites are still high keep doing 10% water changes. If they have dropped, as i say, you should be all good. Hope this helps mate.


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## Nzac

I would add prime with water changes to help ease the stress on the fish (from nitrite) until such time as the tank reads 0 nitrite. Pretty much all you can do, as stated above, is wait it out.


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## TyDomi

Here are our water condition results for tonight:

Ammonia - 0.25 PPM
Nitrite - 2.0 PPM
Nitrate - 5.0 PPM

I believe we will be doing a water change either tomorrow or Sunday.


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## Snowbed

Do one tomorrow - 20% and add some prime. Do a water test on Monday and let us know what it reads.


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## TyDomi

Did a water test yesterday before the water change and the readings were as follows:

Ammonia - 0.25 PPM
Nitrite - 2.00 PPM
Nitrate - 2.50 PPM

We did the water change and vacuumed the the gravel etc. last night as well.

We did the water test tonight and had the following readings.

Ammonia - 0.00 PPM
Nitrite - 2.00 PPM
Nitrate - 2.50 PPM

Basically the exact same readings, and again it appears as though we are no further ahead. The tank is stable but it appears as though it is getting no further in the cycle.

When we do the water change, should we be putting the BioMax media from the AquaClear filter in to the tank to keep it submerged when doing the water change? Are we doing something wrong?


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## Snowbed

I don't quite know what you mean; why would you put media from your filter into your tank? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it sounded like? I think patience is the best thing here, you will have to wait it out. The nitrite will drop, don't worry about that.


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## TyDomi

Yes the media from the filter. The bacteria is anaerobic from what I understand, so putting it in to the tank during the water change to keep the bacteria alive. When we do the water change, the filter drains and the media is no longer submerged.

As for waiting it out, ugggghhhh lol. It feels like it has been forever. Should we continue with daily water changes?


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## Nzac

Ok, your first problem was cycling the tank with 4 very small fish, then adding in 5 much larger fish. fish size can be directly corralated to fish waste/bio load put on filters. The meds that kill off bacteria may also have made things worse.

Second problem two weeks is not long enough to cycle a tank from scratch, the biological cycle takes a solid 6 weeks when starting from nothing.

Me personally I would be doing 2x 50% waterchanges each week (others will advise different amounts/time frame-and that's probably fine also) using something like prime (makes ammonia and nitrites non-toxic but does not remove them), then all you can do is wait it out. There is really nothing you can do at this point other than make the fish as comfortable as possible while the biological cycle completes. End goal, 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites and under 40ppm nitrates, ideally under 20ppm nitrates.

One thing I will advise is DO NOT use chemicals that REMOVE ammonia or nitrite during this process as it will make it take even longer.

I have no clue what "the Colony product" is nor what it does so cannot advise on the use of that, but if last sentence above applies to it quit using it.

yes it is a good idea to place the media in the tank while doing waterchange if the filter empties itself of water during water change process.


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## TyDomi

Colony basically inserts live bacteria in to the tank fast forwarding the cycling process. We didn't know a lot about it but it has some strong reviews online. Since adding colony, we have only noticed a rise in nitrate levels as they were non-existant prior to adding colony. We only had extremely high nitrite levels.

As for the cycling, the filter media we had used were from established tanks except for the canister which we purchased to aid with the bioload of the additional fish.

As for keeping the media in the tank while doing the water change, we have tried that to see if it makes a difference. We will provide an update later this weekend.

Thanks for the insight Nzac.


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## TyDomi

It has been a while since I have posted.

Here is an update, we did a water change on March 24th, but did not test the water. We have done our first water test today March 27th (Day 15). The results are as follows:

Ammonia - 0.0 PPM
Nitrite - 0.0 PPM
Nitrate - 80.0 PPM

I guess this is the final stage of the cycle. The best way to correct this would be through frequent water changes if I'm not mistaken. I am pleased to see that the water is balancing, the only issue now is letting the Nitrate stabilize.

Thank you all for your input, continued suggestions and advice are encouraged.

Thanks again! I will post again on Sunday the latest.


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## Nzac

looks like the cycle is complete. You are correct, the only way to lower nitrates is waterchanges (nitrates do not stabilize, they only rise). when I had 6-7 6"-10" pygos in a 135 I was doing one 50% waterchange per week to keep nitrates in check. When I had 10 in there it was 50% 2x/week (50% wed and 50% sun).

If it was my tank I would do a 50% waterchange immediately follow by another 50% waterchange, others do differently as I have learned. the first 50% would bring the nitrates down to 40ppm, the next 50% would bring them down to 20ppm. from there I would check the tank in a week and see what the nitrates are at and plan my waterchanges accordingly. My personal goal in all of my tanks is nitrates at 20ppm or less, with a shoal I have always considered 40ppm on waterchange day to be acceptable (these are readings before my waterchanges). From my understanding anything under 40ppm is not harmful to fish (well 0 is of course not harmful, anything over has to have some minor effect).


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