# ID question



## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

posted similar question in Frank's forum but has taken some well deserved time off so I hope nobody minds that I am also posting the question here.......

I added 3 new fish to my aquarium today. One is a 10+ inch RBP and the other two are around 9 inches. The 10+ inch RBP looks very strange to me. I wish I had a camera to take a picture but hopefully my description will help out in it's possible ID. It looks like a very big version my 6 inch RBP's.  But it differs from the two 9 inch RBP's in a couple ways. First...It looks like a stretch limo. It seems almost like it is longer than it should be. The head and eyes and dorsal fins all say RBP but it seems too long. The two 9 inch RBP's are shorter but beefier (thicker). The other thing I noticed is that it has no adipose fins. They are not damaged or just missing.....They are genetically absent. Right now you are all probably hating me for not posting a pic. I will try to borrow a camera but in the mean time, any ideas? In case you are wondering, this is a Pygo. It has every other characteristic of a RBP other than the weird length and no adipose fin. It is not a Caribe (No humeral spot), Not a Piraya. Just plane looks like a Stretch limo RBP without any adipose fins. Thanks for your help in advance.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

mdmedicine said:


> posted similar question in Frank's forum but has taken some well deserved time off so I hope nobody minds that I am also posting the question here.......
> 
> I added 3 new fish to my aquarium today. One is a 10+ inch RBP and the other two are around 9 inches. The 10+ inch RBP looks very strange to me. I wish I had a camera to take a picture but hopefully my description will help out in it's possible ID. It looks like a very big version my 6 inch RBP's. But it differs from the two 9 inch RBP's in a couple ways. First...It looks like a stretch limo. It seems almost like it is longer than it should be. The head and eyes and dorsal fins all say RBP but it seems too long. The two 9 inch RBP's are shorter but beefier (thicker). The other thing I noticed is that it has no adipose fins. They are not damaged or just missing.....They are genetically absent. Right now you are all probably hating me for not posting a pic. I will try to borrow a camera but in the mean time, any ideas? In case you are wondering, this is a Pygo. It has every other characteristic of a RBP other than the weird length and no adipose fin. It is not a Caribe (No humeral spot), Not a Piraya. Just plane looks like a Stretch limo RBP without any adipose fins. Thanks for your help in advance.
> [snapback]1030331[/snapback]​


hmm theres no species that looks like that, you prolly got a deformed individual. well anyways, sounds cool, be sure to post pics!!!


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## Joga Bonito (Oct 30, 2004)

pacu :rasp:


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

henry 79 said:


> pacu :rasp:
> [snapback]1030373[/snapback]​


lol


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

henry 79 said:


> pacu :rasp:
> [snapback]1030373[/snapback]​


Nope
I will get the camera....


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Wild caught reds are generally more elongated in shape than captive bred species. That's what it sounds like to me at any rate, the adipose issue is certainly a mystery but I'd guess it's just a genetic fluke.


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Wild caught reds are generally more elongated in shape than captive bred species. That's what it sounds like to me at any rate, the adipose issue is certainly a mystery but I'd guess it's just a genetic fluke.
> [snapback]1030386[/snapback]​


I think you may be right. Definately not a Pacu and definately a Pygo. 
Tha







nks for your input.


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Wild caught reds are generally more elongated in shape than captive bred species. That's what it sounds like to me at any rate, the adipose issue is certainly a mystery but I'd guess it's just a genetic fluke.
> [snapback]1030386[/snapback]​


Twitch, it looks like my Pygo anatomy knowledge is painfully lacking. Piranha Boy pointed out that what I am referring to are the Pelvic Fins. Again, wish I had a camera but on close inspection they are either genetically or more likely, congenitally absent. There are no scars indicating that they were ever there. PB indicated that this is sometimes seen. Do you know anything about that? Is it an age thing where they auto-amputate or are they usually missing when they develop from egg to fry?


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## GoJamieGo (Mar 18, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Wild caught reds are generally more elongated in shape than captive bred species. That's what it sounds like to me at any rate, the adipose issue is certainly a mystery but I'd guess it's just a genetic fluke.
> [snapback]1030386[/snapback]​


I agree.... I was about to reply the same.


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## GoJamieGo (Mar 18, 2005)

You said adipose "fins".... Theres only one adipose fin. Its the fatty fin between the dorsal and caudal fin.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

First my apology for being tardy replying to this thread. I've been absorbed revising OPEFE web pages and redoing all the data. Its taking longer than expected and I even discovered pages that were never released and about 16 pages of unpublished material. So my work is cut out for me and will take longer than anticipated.

Secondly, to answer the question by mdmedicine:

Without the adipose fin, the species would not be a member of the piranhas or associated forms. It is also one of the main characters that identify characins (tetras) with the exception of catfishes and a couple others.

So we have to look at your fish. Juvenile fish bite each other and sometimes the adipose fin is clipped off (the bite will be round-shaped) giving it an appearance of a shortened adipose fin. Same goes with complete removal of the adipose fin. Once its gone, it stays gone. For example, farm-raised Salmon have the adipose-fin clipped off to separate from wild salmon.

Lastly, same goes with clipping of the other minor fins (pelvic and ventral fins).
I hope this answers that part of your question.

The next part "elongation" elTwitcho answered correctly. It is largely an individualist trait and sometimes geographic as well.


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## mdmedicine (Dec 20, 2004)

hastatus said:


> First my apology for being tardy replying to this thread. I've been absorbed revising OPEFE web pages and redoing all the data. Its taking longer than expected and I even discovered pages that were never released and about 16 pages of unpublished material. So my work is cut out for me and will take longer than anticipated.
> 
> Secondly, to answer the question by mdmedicine:
> 
> ...


Frank
Once again, thank you for your help. I tried to respond and say thank you yesterday several times but the site would not let me reply to the thread for some reason. Pictures will be forthcoming as soon as possible.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I look forward to seeing the photos. Keep in mind, I'm on a time clock so will be a day or two at the most before I can reply back. I've go so much to do with OPEFE before I start my official vacation in June (going out of State into California) for a couple of weeks or more. I'm looking forward for the down time.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Cali Rox... have fun...!


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