# Carbon for plants



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

I would like you (DiPpY and others) who have used liquid carbon (Flourish excel) to respond to this and tell about your experiences.

I have a 150 gallon tank with Arcadia T5 overtank luminator (5x54W) with polished reflectors.

The tap water in Helsinki is of pH 8.0, but KH only 1-2 with little or none CO2. With low alkalinity the pH of my tank (with four 9" Pygo's) used to go down very fast (I have three big Mangrove roots in there).
Now I correct the KH with baking soda (NaHCO3) up to dH 6-8, which gives a pH of 7.4-7.6. As the water contains acids they take KH down all the time and release CO2 into the water (and I add soda continuously). Plants do like this a lot. I know they can even use up HCO3 for carbon source.

Now I have also added Flourish excel (organic carbon). Plants did react to this very positively.
Do you guys have same kind of experiences?

Regards,
Harry


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

harrykaa said:


> I would like you (DiPpY and others) who have used liquid carbon (Flourish excel) to respond to this and tell about your experiences.
> 
> I have a 150 gallon tank with Arcadia T5 overtank luminator (5x54W) with polished reflectors.
> 
> ...


I know excel is a great product and I whenever I use it my plants look a lot better. 
It also does wonders for black beard algae. If you ever have bba you can do spot treatment with this excel. Simply turn off your filters take a pipette or a plastic syringe that you can suck up the excel with. Then just slowly release it on the bba infected areas and turn your filters back on.
I am glad I don't have to deal with your water! The water in Colorado is great and does not require extra.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2006)

I have had nothing but positive experiences with Excel









Edit: Anyone know if this type of carbon effects your carbon readings?


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## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

i love it, it balanced out my 29g and i did spot treatment of my BBA and staghorn alge and matter of days it was dead.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> I would like you (DiPpY and others) who have used liquid carbon (Flourish excel) to respond to this and tell about your experiences.
> 
> I have a 150 gallon tank with Arcadia T5 overtank luminator (5x54W) with polished reflectors.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your tap water, Harry.

But yes, we all have great experiences with Flourish excell. It is great stuff. Excellent for any tank with algea problems (to buy you time to figure out what is wrong) 
Or any tank needing a boost in growth.. I buy it by the 2 liter size jug


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Sorry to hear about your tap water, Harry.
> But yes, we all have great experiences with Flourish excell. It is great stuff. Excellent for any tank with algea problems (to buy you time to figure out what is wrong)
> Or any tank needing a boost in growth.. I buy it by the 2 liter size jug


Thanks for sharing your experiences with excel. I will also stick to that stuff for a while and see how far I can go with it. I like especially two things about it:
- the easiness of use, no equipment
- it will not change KH nor pH.

DiPpY, yes my tap water is a little troublesome, but as I said I can correct it easily by regularly adding (during water changes) NaHCO3.
I also think that as my tank water has a tendency to become more and more acid all the time (this however is a quite common feature in aquaria due to formation of various acids) it is a good practise to buffer the water with bicarbonates. As they neutralize the acids, carbon dioxide is released continuously into the water for the plants. Also most plants use up bicarbonates too.
And I do not have to add carbon dioxide myself, but of course I do add excel.

Regards,


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

harrykaa said:


> Sorry to hear about your tap water, Harry.
> But yes, we all have great experiences with Flourish excell. It is great stuff. Excellent for any tank with algea problems (to buy you time to figure out what is wrong)
> Or any tank needing a boost in growth.. I buy it by the 2 liter size jug


Thanks for sharing your experiences with excel. I will also stick to that stuff for a while and see how far I can go with it. I like especially two things about it:
- the easiness of use, no equipment
- it will not change KH nor pH.

DiPpY, yes my tap water is a little troublesome, but as I said I can correct it easily by regularly adding (during water changes) NaHCO3.
I also think that as my tank water has a tendency to become more and more acid all the time (this however is a quite common feature in aquaria due to formation of various acids) it is a good practise to buffer the water with bicarbonates. As they neutralize the acids, carbon dioxide is released continuously into the water for the plants. Also most plants use up bicarbonates too.
And I do not have to add carbon dioxide myself, but of course I do add excel.

Regards,
[/quote]
Very interesting about the bicarbonates.. I happen to have water on the harder side, so I don't have to raise the KH at all.. My GH is up there along with KH, so buffering the water is completely unnecissary for me. At least I think it is..

I'm going to start a thread about some super soft acidic water plants that I have ordered and am going to give a go at growing.
Like I said, my tap water is hard, so I am going to have to use a peat based substrate, and cut my tap water with R/O.

These plants do very badly in a tank with higher pH, calcium and magnesium readings (mostly higher KH and some GH).. they come from blackwater streams in the amazon.. Except for like 1 of the ones I want to grow.. 
BTW, the plants I'm attempting to grow are:

Tonina sp. 'Belem,' 'Manaus,' and fluviatilis..
Eriocaulon setaceum, and cinereum
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Pantanal' (I will use some 'Cuba' as well)
Pogostemon helferi 
and maybe some Hemianthus callitrichoides

Anyone know of any sp. of piranha that come from the blackwater areas of the Amazon, with the really low pH?


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Very interesting about the bicarbonates.. I happen to have water on the harder side, so I don't have to raise the KH at all.. My GH is up there along with KH, so buffering the water is completely unnecissary for me. At least I think it is..
> 
> I'm going to start a thread about some super soft acidic water plants that I have ordered and am going to give a go at growing.
> Like I said, my tap water is hard, so I am going to have to use a peat based substrate, and cut my tap water with R/O.
> ...


Hi DiPpY,

You may have problems if your tap water has a very high KH (dH 6 or more). Peat may not be enough. But of course adding CO2 can help.

Acid rivers of South-America? Well how about those below.
Rio ***** and Orinoco rivers: pH: 4.5-7 (6.0); 2-8 dH (6); 75-82°F (24-28°C)
or
Rio Araguia: pH 5.8-7.5 (6.5), 4-20 dH (8), 72-82°F (22-28°C)

At least a Rhom can be found in all those.

Regards,


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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

harry,

my tap has a low kh to begin with, and i have peat in my filters. in the past i had been having trouble with the kh bottoming out and the ph subsequently plummeting. recently, i began experimenting with crushed coral in the filters, as well as baking soda. i've had more success i believe with the latter. my question is 1. do you think adding baking soda is a good long-term solution? and 2. how much are you adding and how often? I have been somewhere around the 1 tablespoon per 30 gal, maybe every 2 weeks with 30% weekly water change (at least). given this is a variable, do you have any advice for more accurate dosing? i feel like im just testing and guessing most of the time


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

harrykaa said:


> Very interesting about the bicarbonates.. I happen to have water on the harder side, so I don't have to raise the KH at all.. My GH is up there along with KH, so buffering the water is completely unnecissary for me. At least I think it is..
> 
> I'm going to start a thread about some super soft acidic water plants that I have ordered and am going to give a go at growing.
> Like I said, my tap water is hard, so I am going to have to use a peat based substrate, and cut my tap water with R/O.
> ...


Hi DiPpY,

You may have problems if your tap water has a very high KH (dH 6 or more). Peat may not be enough. But of course adding CO2 can help.

Acid rivers of South-America? Well how about those below.
Rio ***** and Orinoco rivers: pH: 4.5-7 (6.0); 2-8 dH (6); 75-82°F (24-28°C)
or
Rio Araguia: pH 5.8-7.5 (6.5), 4-20 dH (8), 72-82°F (22-28°C)

At least a Rhom can be found in all those.

Regards,
[/quote]

I feel your pain in regards to shitty water quality. I am using a r/o to purity my water then rebuild it using secham equalibrium. I to had horribly hard water:
Gh- 28
Kh- 26
R/o helped out a ton.

In regards to the excel, 2 thumbs up. Im not getting alot of groth on what is already there, but the new groeth im getting is amazing.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Ex0dus said:


> Very interesting about the bicarbonates.. I happen to have water on the harder side, so I don't have to raise the KH at all.. My GH is up there along with KH, so buffering the water is completely unnecissary for me. At least I think it is..
> 
> I'm going to start a thread about some super soft acidic water plants that I have ordered and am going to give a go at growing.
> Like I said, my tap water is hard, so I am going to have to use a peat based substrate, and cut my tap water with R/O.
> ...


Hi DiPpY,

You may have problems if your tap water has a very high KH (dH 6 or more). Peat may not be enough. But of course adding CO2 can help.

Acid rivers of South-America? Well how about those below.
Rio ***** and Orinoco rivers: pH: 4.5-7 (6.0); 2-8 dH (6); 75-82°F (24-28°C)
or
Rio Araguia: pH 5.8-7.5 (6.5), 4-20 dH (8), 72-82°F (22-28°C)

At least a Rhom can be found in all those.

Regards,
[/quote]

I feel your pain in regards to shitty water quality. I am using a r/o to purity my water then rebuild it using secham equalibrium. I to had horribly hard water:
Gh- 28
Kh- 26
R/o helped out a ton.

In regards to the excel, 2 thumbs up. Im not getting alot of groth on what is already there, but the new groeth im getting is amazing.
[/quote]
Ex0, where in the world did you find Seachem's EQ?? Glad your plants are looking good









Harry, My KH fluxuates between 4.5 and 5. I know I will have to redo the tank with new peat eventually







once the L cuba doesn't want to grow anymore, I'll look into it

Thanks for sharing the water params of the blackwater rivers in the Amazon







any other types of P besides rhom found in those waters?


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Thanks for sharing the water params of the blackwater rivers in the Amazon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DiPpY,

You could try Serrasalmus geryi. That fish lives in Rio Araguay, where the pH is sometime even below 5.0! This is still speculation because I have never had a geryi. But please look at OPEFE page: OPEFE: geryi

nick007,
Yes one teaspoon for 100 litres (26 gallons) raises KH with 1 dKH.
This is dosing I use every water change to get the KH of new water to about 5-6 KH.
And yes I believe that NaHCO3 is a very natural way to raise the KH and to buffer the water.
It has to be continuous because of natural acidification of an aquarium due to driftwood (humic acids), nitrification etc.

Regards,


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Ex0, where in the world did you find Seachem's EQ??


I don't know where ExO got his, but I got mine from drsfostersmith.com.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

BioTeach said:


> Ex0, where in the world did you find Seachem's EQ??


I don't know where ExO got his, but I got mine from drsfostersmith.com.
[/quote]










x2

I get all my supplies through them, either through the web or price matching them at petsmart


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Ex0dus said:


> Ex0, where in the world did you find Seachem's EQ??


I don't know where ExO got his, but I got mine from drsfostersmith.com.
[/quote]

:nod:

x2

I get all my supplies through them, either through the web or price matching them at petsmart








[/quote]
funny, I never found it there...







Ive been wating some


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...8&N=2004+113777

And its on sale now too. I might have to get me some more.


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