# down sizing to a 90 reef



## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

well i decided to cancel my plans for my in wall 300gal fowlr setup.







i think im gonna buy a 90gal reef ready tank. i dont know much about reef but i will be reaserching for the next six months or so. 
i just have a few q's. if i have a really good hob skimmer and fuge is that ok or is a 90 still to large to not have a sump? what lighting requirements should i have with anemone, sps and clams. also what supplements and ferts should i be dosing?
i have not bought the tank or any other supply 's or equipment yet. i want be fully satisfied with everything and everyone delt with if thats possible. i want to meticulously plan this tank.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

RBP7 said:


> well i decided to cancel my plans for my in wall 300gal fowlr setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


realistically no, besides why would you buy a reef ready tank and then use HOB stuff?



> what lighting requirements should i have with anemone, sps and clams.


lighting woud be pretty much the exact saem stuff you would have needed to the 300 except instead of covering 6 feet you need to cover 4 feet.. you could get away with 2 150w halides and some t5 suplimentatoin, 2 250w halides with t-5 supplimentation would be very good the other good option would be a 6 bulb t5 set up..



> also what supplements and ferts should i be dosing?


ferts? no ferts.. although i suppose you could consider calcium, magnesium and carbonates (buffers) fertalizers for corals. with the corals that you have stated interest in you wll need to monitor calcium alkalinity and magnesium as they are hard corals the use these element in the water to build their skelital structure. the cheapest and easiest thing for this is DIY two part dosing solution or to use Kalkwasser or pickling lime to make limewater and use that to top off from evaporation.



> i have not bought the tank or any other supply 's or equipment yet. i want be fully satisfied with everything and everyone delt with if thats possible. i want to meticulously plan this tank.


between me puff and few others here we can create a good plan t set this up right the first time . the best thing to have for a reef aside from money is patients lots of it..


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

well i think i will be patient enough. if i wasn't going to get a rrtank i was going to go hob but its rr all the way.


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## jasert39 (May 1, 2003)

IMO, you will regret not getting a RR tank or at least having an overflow with a sump, you indicated that you were going to wait and do things right. Having a sump gets a lot of equipment that is an eyesore out of the display (heaters, probes, etc.). Plus having a sump allow for a little bit more volume of water making the tank a little bit more stable. If you do decide to have a sump consider adding a little area for a refugium, I don't think that I would run a tank without one. Also, I don't think that hob skimmers for your size tank are all that great...but thats just me.

Lighting, you could go all the ways that nismo said it all up to you, 250's, 150's, 175s or t5 all sound like good choice for what you are going to keep. I personally am not running any supplemental light right now with my 250 watt hamilton 14K bulbs, saves room in the hood and on the electricity bill a little as well.

I would not go nuts thinking about additives before you even have the tank setup. I dose a little bit of kalkwasser in my top off water just to keep the sps as happy as I can in my tank...other than that NOTHING gets added to my tank. Just keep up with water changes with a quailty salt and you should be fine, until you tank demands more of one additive or another.

If you have questions about equipment, ask before you buy, there are is a lot of knowledge on this board and that will save you money in the long run.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

jasert39 said:


> IMO, you will regret not getting a RR tank or at least having an overflow with a sump, you indicated that you were going to wait and do things right. Having a sump gets a lot of equipment that is an eyesore out of the display (heaters, probes, etc.). Plus having a sump allow for a little bit more volume of water making the tank a little bit more stable. If you do decide to have a sump consider adding a little area for a refugium, I don't think that I would run a tank without one. Also, I don't think that hob skimmers for your size tank are all that great...but thats just me.
> 
> Lighting, you could go all the ways that nismo said it all up to you, 250's, 150's, 175s or t5 all sound like good choice for what you are going to keep. I personally am not running any supplemental light right now with my 250 watt hamilton 14K bulbs, saves room in the hood and on the electricity bill a little as well.
> 
> ...


do you test your magnesium? i totally agree with your post but when using limewater (kalk) you should monitor you magnesium


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

yeah the setup 3000$ for a 90gal rr tank, stand, canapy and my pic of the rest of the equipment (sump, fuge skimmer, pumps and powerheads). he said i would have to pay a little extra for good lights. all brand new from big als. has any one heard of the led lights for reef tanks that are comming out this year? i want to know if they are sufficient for my needs?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

RBP7 said:


> yeah the setup 3000$ for a 90gal rr tank, stand, canapy and my pic of the rest of the equipment (sump, fuge skimmer, pumps and powerheads). he said i would have to pay a little extra for good lights. all brand new from big als. has any one heard of the led lights for reef tanks that are comming out this year? i want to know if they are sufficient for my needs?


LEDs have been out for a few years now not necessarily "new" but the technology is still evolving the costs are still relatively high considering you could get a proven technology like t-5 or halide for up to 30 percent less..

3k sounds about right. but kind of on the high side, if you search forums you could get most stuff in good shape used or online some stuff is nearly impossosible for the FLS to compete.

average aga reef ready tank and stand 700+/-

figure about 600 - 800 for lighting
250 - 400 for a skimmer
return pump 100+/-

so thats about a 1500 - 2000 there

live rock 300 - 600 depending on price per lb shipping ect.. might be a good idea to do half good live rock and half good base rock, some vendors will work with you to get the mix of sizes and shapes that will work best for the tank size and rough idea of what you wan it to look like
sand about 100
salt mix bucket 50 - 80 
test kits / refractometer 150+/-
additional power heads for circulation 140 - 800 (cheaper for modded Mj's or koralias most expesive for vortechs or tunzes)
heaters 150 +/- (you should run two heaters that are under rated for the tank so if one goes nuts and gets stuck on it will not over heat the tank.
chiller if necessary 300+

lastly but far from least important RO/DI unit 250 +/-

were you looking at a "normal" aga/topfin/perfecto/oceanic type 90gallon or something a little more fancy? tanks with higher quality thicker glass and euro bracing are nice and custom shapes like large cubes are really cool but with a slightly higher cost of course


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

i was told since i would be buying everything at this store that i would be getting a large discount. the tank is suposedly woth about 1500$ alone. also do i need a chiller?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

RBP7 said:


> i was told since i would be buying everything at this store that i would be getting a large discount. the tank is suposedly woth about 1500$ alone. also do i need a chiller?


i dont know your lfs but have been to pretty much every lfs with in about 50 miles of were i live now ans lived last year which adds up to about 2 dozen shops probably.. when they tell you they will give you a good discount for buying it all there thats fine and dandy but the truth is thaey have usually marked up the price so much that the big discount you get really only brings it down to about what its should have costed to begin with.

now it might sound like a pain in the neck to get your stuff from differnt places but int eh long run when your setting up a 2-3+ thousand dollar tank its nice to have saved a few bucks along the way to put towards stocking it..

what ever price you get qouted look on line and call around and negotiate with them you shouldnt ahve to over pay for stuff to get a deal

what kind of tank is it, unless that thing has starphire glass or some other high end specs 1500 is about 30 percent more then a 90 gallon reef ready should cost..

you might need a chiller. what is the climate where you live? do you have central air?

do this set up have an open or closed hood?

it can be more expesive to run your airconditoining in the summer to keep tank temps down but to run enough lighting to keep a 90 gallon setup for a reef you will need to do something to keep the temps down the tank should never raise above 84 to maybe 86 at the very most and shouldnt drop below about 74 at the least.

there are few schools of thought, some claim your temp should never sway more then 2 degrees up or down. others feel its ok to have a 4 -6 degree temp range. the ones that claim to keep it with-in a degree or two claim that the instability of the temp will kil the coral and for a tank that is steady for a very long time with established corals this may be true, the other group say the constant variation in water temps keeps the corals used to the flucutation so if there were to be a problem like a heater getting stuck and raising the temp 3 or 4 degrees or not comming on and dropping 3 or 4 degrees the corals wont be as negatively effected.

personally i dont run either heaters of a chiller which in reality is pretty stupid to not have the heaters atleast but this will be the first summer with this tank and a 25w halide. so far we havent had a day over 80 but a few of these warmer days my tank got up to mid 83 so ive been running a fan on it to keep it down aroum 78 - 82 range..

the other option is to flip the light cycle and run the lights at night when its cooler outside and shoudl be coller in teh house or alteast cost less to keep it cooler.


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

yeah i know its a bit pricey but that is the only store that carries rr tanks within 250 miles. i would have to drive 500miles to get to my next choice. i live in the oil feilds of alberta. everything is heigh priced around here. 
also no central air and its an open wooden canapy.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

this price list is about what you should be paying

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/shipping/G...ium_Listing.pdf


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## jasert39 (May 1, 2003)

I have my tank in my basement that stays cooler than the rest of the house, I have no need for a chiller but my heater does run for at least a little while everyday. I run 3x250's over my tank and only use a fan to cool the tank on the hotest days before my air conditioner comes on.

The tank does seem pretty expensive to me but if that what it is thats what it is. I would really do some research about all of your equipment though, and purchase what you can online to save money on that end. Are you a little bit handy and have the ability to build you stand and canopy? Also, do you know of any other people in your area that keep fish? Find out where they got their tanks and equipment maybe there is somewhere that you are unaware of...just a thought.

good luck.


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

i found out that the reason for the tank being so expensive is that it is a 90gal tank, with the 2 front corners are rounded. meaning that its made of 3 pieces of glass and not 5. 1500$ for equipment and pluming isnt that much is it. also the store has several variations of the same tank so get to see what it will look like before i put it together. a couple of digi pics will help with asembly. also if i dont go this way i will still want new equipment. i dont wana get taken.

ive been looking for sw enthusiasts in my area but there have been no reply so far. im a handyman but my tools got stolen from my garage .

so are the led lights ok for a 120gal system? i need to use as little energy as possible.

go green or go home!!


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

which LED fixture are you considering?

the solairs is about 2500 - 3000 for a 48 inch fixture that can supoprt the corals that you have expressed interest in..

they have a handy calculator on there site, unfortunately for me this is not convincing.

http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/Sol...65/Default.aspx

just from running some general numbers through it, 39 months before the solaris becomes more cost effective then the proven technology of halides and t-5 and 56 months before its better then runing a 6 bulb t-5 ho fixture.

i would go with t-5 if your looking for a good mix of efficient and effective. a 6 bulb t-5 set up will give you more flexibility in tuning the color spectrum then the LED or halide and it has been proven to support excellent sps tanks (if it can keep sps everything else would get plenty of light)...

either way high wattage halide is still king..


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

For the price, I would rather get a 3-sided starphire tank. The clarity of starphire glass is amazing. I saw a 150 gallon eurobraced starphire tank by Leemar going for about $1,300 at the Marine Expo. A 90 gallon should be considerably less. The rounded corners seem like a great feature but they are really a pain to clean the algae off of.

Equipmentwise, if you are going to keep SPS and clams, get a MH setup and don't go lower than 250W. I had 2 - 150W on my 90 (mostly SPS) and it looked very dim and had to upgrade to 250's. MH is also a great choice because of all the different bulbs available so you can tweak the look of your tank by using 10K, 14K or 20K and/or actinic supplementation. Ballast selection is also important since the same bulb will throw off different light with different ballasts. I love my IceCap ballasts because they run cool compared to my previous no name magnetic ballast that warmed up my entire family room when the halides were on.

Finally, invest in a good skimmer. You won't regret it...


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

tank prices all depend on your area. i live in northern alberta. there are no manufacturers around here so the get shipped from the states. thus the high prices for tanks in my area. i to get a 150gal starphire tank in my area would be close to 2500$ in my area. with a stand alone.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

RBP7 said:


> tank prices all depend on your area. i live in northern alberta. there are no manufacturers around here so the get shipped from the states. thus the high prices for tanks in my area. i to get a 150gal starphire tank in my area would be close to 2500$ in my area. with a stand alone.


ahhhh

well this does explain the excessively high prices and limited retailers..

back to the LED thing, if yuor willing to spend the upfront cost of the fixture then depending on what model your looking at based on what limited use they have gotten they are effective for maintaining sps tanks. just keep in mind the cost savings and energy savings are not that great especially when compared to high out put t-5, in which case the only reason the t-5 costs more is bulb replacement every 6-9 months. if you dont live in a warm climate then runninga chiller or AC due to hot lights isnt realy an issue if you can use fans to ventilate the tank.

what is the situation with being able to get corals up there? is it going to be difficult or expensive?

in the long term would it be realistic to set up all this equipment if it going to cost 100 bucks for a frag of coral?

do you ever have power outtages? reef tanks do not last long without power to keep water moving or temp within range.


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

yeah i think i will be going t-5.getting the coral shouldn't be to bad as long as they can survive a 5 h drive. i found a fellow enthusiast who is also just starting out. we have pretty much the same plans so we will be trading frags. also its very rare that we get power outages i have lived here a year have not had one that hole time. my nabour siad he cant remember when the last outage was.


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

lil help


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

ive beenreading alot and man is reef a step way up from fowlr. im kind of in limbo about going staight into a reef setup. with everything that i need to know and equipmebt needed i think i way start out with a fowlr setup and when im comfortable enough i might start the reef but i think i for now its fowlr.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

RBP7 said:


> ive beenreading alot and man is reef a step way up from fowlr. im kind of in limbo about going staight into a reef setup. with everything that i need to know and equipmebt needed i think i way start out with a fowlr setup and when im comfortable enough i might start the reef but i think i for now its fowlr.


this is a good way to start and not quite as costly and more forgiving.. even with a FOWLR your more then half way to going full reef so if you do decide to take the plunge you will be about 1/2 - 2/3 of the way


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

yeah i think thats the plan. then i can still reaserch the reef for a while and i can still have a sw setup.


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