# Muslim American Vote Shifts Toward Kerry



## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

Who ever would have thought........









Muslim American Vote Shifts Toward Kerry 
Tuesday, October 19, 2004
By Liza Porteus 
STORIES 
•Arab-American Vote Key This Election•American Muslims Undecided on President•U.S. Muslim Summit Discusses Elections•Democratic Muslims Unite for Kerry•Bush Still Earns Muslim Support

NEW YORK - George W. Bush (search) may have received overwhelming support from the Muslim American community in the 2000 presidential election against Al Gore, but it looks like he has lost a lot of ground within the community this year.

"The shift by American Muslims away from the president - and the Republicans - is dramatic, and the truest example of a backlash we've seen. This is virtually unprecedented," John Zogby, president of Zogby International (search), said Tuesday.

Zogby International and Georgetown University's Project MAPS (search) on Tuesday released a survey that showed, despite the fact that a plurality of Muslims supported Bush in 2000, 76 percent now support Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (search) and only 7 percent support the incumbent.

"The results of this survey are truly astonishing. For American Muslims, there has been a sea-change in political alignment and outlook since Sept. 11," said Zahid Bukhari, director of Project MAPS. "The political realignment in the Muslim community is unprecedented in all of American history."

The poll, which also found that 51 percent said it's a good time to be a Muslim in America, was based on a survey of 1,846 Muslims chosen randomly nationwide, including an over sample of 146 face-to-face interviews of African-American Muslims in mosques. The poll has a margin of error of 2.3 percentage points. Surveys were conducted Aug. 5 through Sept. 15.

"I think there has been a sense of betrayal, if you will, almost because of the way the Muslim community was treated since 9/11," Mukit Hossain, president of the Muslim American Political Action Committee, told FOXNews.com. "The government has effectively, contrary to what it says, targeted the whole community for the acts of a few criminals."

The survey found that 53 percent of American Muslim voters think Muslims should vote as a bloc for a president; 81 percent also indicated that they support the agenda of the American Muslim Taskforce on Civil Rights and Elections - a national coalition of the 10 largest Muslim organizations, including the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Muslim Alliance of North America and Muslim American Society.

The umbrella group has not yet thrown its support behind any one candidate but a formal endorsement is expected this week, according to the group's Web site.

Patriot Act Key to Muslim Vote

After the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, several moves were made by the U.S. government to vamp up law enforcement efforts to root out would-be terrorists in Americans' midst. The controversial USA Patriot Act (search) was pushed through Congress at top-speed and signed into law by Bush so that, the administration argued, law enforcement officers would have the proper tools they need to act swiftly and effectively against potential terrorists.

But civil liberties groups and many minority groups have argued that the law deprives them of basic protections.

"It's not a Muslim issue, it's an American issue. Americans do not need their civil liberties curtailed," Hossain said. "Once we have institutionalized [it] that sort of proves, no one community is immune ... these sort of laws do not abide by any sort of religious demarcation."

A lack of an endorsement for a candidate by the Muslim-American community may be linked to the fact that no candidate has put forth an acceptable position on the Patriot Act, said CAIR-Ohio Executive Director Jad Humeidan.

"The Muslim organizations are looking for a candidate that will address their concerns and their main concern at this time is the Patriot Act and civil rights," Humeidan said.

Ahmed Nassef, editor-in-chief of MuslimWakeup.com and executive director for the Progressive Muslim Union of North America (search), said it's not so much that Muslim Americans want to see Kerry in the White House as much as they don't want four more years of Bush.

"A lot of it is a reflection of the dissatisfaction of the Bush administration policies, particularly around civil rights and civil liberties issues over the past three years," Nassef told FOXNews.com.

In fact, he said, it doesn't seem like the Kerry-Edwards camp is making many moves at all to reach out to the community, perhaps because it thinks it already has the Muslim vote in its pocket.

"To the credit of the Bush-Cheney campaign, they have hired a couple of people to do outreach in the community &#8230; [but] there's been a lot of bridges burned, a lot of bad feelings" among people within the community who were close to the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2000, Nassef said.

The Bush administration last year did increase contacts with Muslim leaders and invited them for briefings with the Department of Justice and the White House Faith-Based Initiatives Office (search).

Hossain said the Kerry-Edwards campaign has made some effort to include the Muslim American community. It has posted on its Web site an action plan entitled, "Building Bridges to the Muslim American Community."

"The Muslim community finds itself in a tough spot. On the one side, you have the Bush people wanting to reach out and policies being a major problem, and the Kerry campaign kind of taking them for granted and not wanting to really establish serious relationships," Nassef said.

"The few people that are out there in the community that do support the president - that's the point they constantly make: at least with the president, he's a known quantity, he wants to reach out to the Muslim community and at least we can talk with him. They say, 'Look, the Kerry campaign has pretty much taken the community for granted yet in the end, they don't have any position that's really different than the president's.'"

Battleground States Rich With Muslim American Voters

Organizations are trying to ensure Muslim Americans get to the polls, especially in the battleground states.

MAPAC is organizing get-out-the-vote activities in four battleground states with huge Muslim populations: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Florida. The group has already identified over 350,000 Muslim American voters in Ohio, Michigan and Florida to target and soon will have a complete list of Ohio voters to target.

Other groups like CAIR have been holding various town hall-style meetings and other activities in key states like Michigan and Ohio to educate voters on the importance of the Muslim vote this year.

CAIR-Ohio began voter registration drives in May of 2003 and has held voter education forums in mosques, talked about the importance of voter registration, how to vote and other issues. The group has also held candidate forums in Cleveland and Columbus. Over the next few weeks, a massive get-out-the-vote campaign will be launched in which every Muslim American in Ohio will be contacted.

"I think everybody realizes the importance of Ohio - the Muslim community and the non-Muslim community &#8230; we all know that every vote can possibly make a difference and it might come down to a handful of events like we saw in Florida in the 2000 elections," Humeidan said.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

Is this supposed to mean- 
Muslims support Kerry>All Muslims are terrorists therefore Kerry is bad?
Remove Muslim from subject title for more accurate description of the situation.
"American Vote Shifts Toward Kerry"


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

winkyee said:


> Muslims support Kerry>All Muslims are terrorists therefore Kerry is bad?


 Yeah, that's how the world operates according to some dumb f's...









Remember: because I (still) believe Bush needs to have his ass kicked royally, then be replaced by Kerry, and then tried for war crimes, that makes me a senior Al Qaeda member by now, according to the same dumb f's








Oh well: I wonder how long before the feds knock on my door to offer me a free one-way ticket to lovely Cuba...


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2004)

(edit) By me.

I believe they hated Bush all along because of his support for Israel. His actions after 9/11 only further agitated their hatred towards him. I don't think they actually "support" Kerry as much as they hate Bush.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> They hated Bush all along because of his support for Israel. His actions after 9/11 only further agitated their hatred towards him.


 Yes and that explains why they voted for him in droves in 2000, that's some good deductive reasoning sherlock


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > They hated Bush all along because of his support for Israel. His actions after 9/11 only further agitated their hatred towards him.
> ...


 they voted for him in droves in 2000 because they couldn't stand the idea of a Jewish vice president (Lieberman)


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Whoever said republicans were paranoid xenophobes sure was off the mark...


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

you know perfectly well that I am right

unfortunately, anti-semitism is quiet common among muslim americans


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Oh yes, I fully know that your theories of an anti-jewish conspiracy are perfectly reasonable, why I bet those wacky muslims are voting Kerry so terrorists can come in and blow them up with the rest of us just like idiot007 has been suggesting all along.

Tell me something, why is it that whenever something much more plausible than a widespread muslim conspiracy comes up it's always "lolz more of teh liberal conspiracy theries" but then you turn around and actually believe that people whom your administration has persecuted and set up various elements of systemic discrimination against don't want to vote for the peson that has made their lives more difficult because of an anti-jewish conspiracy?

"No no, the muslims don't mind being searched at airports, detained after september 11th, treated with distrust and racially profiled, they love that sh*t, they're really upset about... the jews!"

You don't even have the sense of irony to know how ridiculous you sound do you?


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Oh yes, I fully know that your theories of an anti-jewish conspiracy are perfectly reasonable, why I bet those wacky muslims are voting Kerry so terrorists can come in and blow them up with the rest of us just like idiot007 has been suggesting all along.
> 
> Tell me something, why is it that whenever something much more plausible than a widespread muslim conspiracy comes up it's always "lolz more of teh liberal conspiracy theries" but then you turn around and actually believe that people whom your administration has persecuted and set up various elements of systemic discrimination against don't want to vote for the peson that has made their lives more difficult because of an anti-jewish conspiracy?
> 
> ...


 Dude, what on god's green earth are you talking about ?

I never said anything about any conspiracy; a conspiracy is a cover-up, what I am talking about is simple bias against a certain ethnic group of people. It's no secret that that bias exists, and don't try to pretend that you don't know it either, because you're smarter than that.

I have no idea why you started to bring up the events after 9/11 and what Bush administration has done; you completely lost me there - when we were clearly talking about the election of 2000. Bush/Cheney vs. Gore/Lieberman, remember ? I sound ridiculous ? seems to me like you're the one who thinks that November of 2000 hapenned after September of 2001.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Gotta love our experts from the 51st state, and their expertise of American politics, or their expertise of how we as Americans feel.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yes, I fully know that your theories of an anti-jewish conspiracy are perfectly reasonable, why I bet those wacky muslims are voting Kerry so terrorists can come in and blow them up with the rest of us just like idiot007 has been suggesting all along.
> ...


 Post 9/11 is perfectly relevant. I myself, and the article posted atributes the HUGE loss in support for Bush/Cheney among muslims to the way the administration has treated them or turned a blind eye to the abuses they've taken. I don't think it has anything at all to do with jewish people or support for Isreal as every US president and likely John Kerry as well has/will support Isreal.

FYI a conspiracy has nothing to do with a coverup

Definition of conspiracy

And I agree bias exists, right now unfortunately I'm seeing more of it from people who profess to know what the evil muslims are thinking than from muslim people though.

Vtec, get your ass to the library somewhere and pick up a book. Canada is a seperate country and not a 51st state so by all means learn a little before advertising that you're an uninformed ass again.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

I understand - however you brought up the fact that muslims voted for Bush in droves in 2000, and that's what I was referring to. IMO, the fact that Lieberman was on the democratic ticket made a huge difference. And I still don't think I'd call it a conspiracy; I think the majority of American muslims simply thought that having a Jewish VP meant bad news for palestinians and other muslims. They didn't know what policies Bush was going to follow at the time. Do you disagree ?

Today's election is a whole different discussion.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

You sure they are not the 51st state?


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> I think the majority of American muslims simply thought that having a Jewish VP meant bad news for palestinians and other muslims. They didn't know what policies Bush was going to follow at the time. Do you disagree ?


 It's possible but I really doubt it personally. Jews make up a big part of American politics regardless of if one is VP or not, I think most muslims would know that wether one is a sitting VP or not the US will continue to have close ties with Isreal and be influenced by it's jewish members of governmnet. If anything it would appear just from party ideology that Republicans would be stronger in support of Isreal than Democrats would.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

well, I personally strongly disagree, but that's just my opinion

A jewish VP possibly means a jewish president, if anything hapenned to Gore and I think most muslims were very afraid of that.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> You sure they are not the 51st state?


 Well, not yet, but maybe your beloved president, if he gets re-elected, runs out of targets elsewhere on the globe and seeks relief of his tensions by invading Canada...


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Well whatever Jewelz, looks like we've reached an impasse.

This election though, do you think it's a result of Bush's support for Isreal and Muslims all hate jews, or that maybe Muslim people don't like the way they've been treated by this administration?


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

I think muslims are upset because of Bush's administration's policies in middle east (support of Israel) and war in Iraq, obviously


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Iraq most definately, support of Isreal, not so much IMO. I know alot of Muslims personally that don't like Isreal but don't really give a sh*t about the situation between them and Palestinians other than "what the jews are doing is wrong". Alot of them just don't give much thought to it believe it or not. I think it's domestic policies, but whatever.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Iraq most definately, support of Isreal, not so much IMO. I know alot of Muslims personally that don't like Isreal but don't really give a sh*t about the situation between them and Palestinians other than "what the jews are doing is wrong". Alot of them just don't give much thought to it believe it or not. I think it's domestic policies, but whatever.


 well, I've actually been to al-jazeera's web site and they have this thing where under each article, people can post their opinions, sort of a mini-forum type of thing; you have no idea how many times Bush has been called a "Zionist puppet" every time the subject of his policies in middle east comes up


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Yes but a majority of Al-Jazeera's audience are people who actually live in the middle east, who are somewhat different than muslims living in America. Most of those people calling Bush a "zionist puppet" would probably never want to step inside the land of the infidels let alone live there. It takes a certain degree of westernization for a muslim to even LIVE in the United States compared to your average John Muhammed from Beirut.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

well, I dunno, I do think there are quite a few people on there from US or UK - since it was the english version of the site


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> Gotta love our experts from the 51st state, and their expertise of American politics, or their expertise of how we as Americans feel.


Exactly where is this 51st State you keep talking about?

Anyone know the what the FDA website is ? The allowable percentage of bullshit per serving in the US must be pretty damned high ..


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

winkyee said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Gotta love our experts from the 51st state, and their expertise of American politics, or their expertise of how we as Americans feel.
> ...


 I think hes unfortunatly referring to Canadia.


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## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

Isnt interesting that the majority of Anti American liberals. Who are on this US based site are in Canada with stragler who is Chiracs grandson over in the Netherlands. Here is a suggestion, why dont you open your own website on your soil. So you can all rendezvous and have a verbal orgie on these matters. And save us the time and effort from having to reply to your anti american liberal secular rhetoric......
I swear you guys are pathetic


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

BraveHeart007 said:


> Isnt interesting that the majority of Anti American liberals. Who are on this US based site are in Canada with stragler who is Chiracs grandson over in the Netherlands. Here is a suggestion, why dont you open your own website on your soil. So you can all rendezvous and have a verbal orgie on these matters. And save us the time and effort from having to reply to your anti american liberal secular rhetoric......
> I swear you guys are pathetic


 US based site?
I though it was a piranha based site with views coming from across the world.
I'll be glad when we have the next version of IPB You'll be the first on the ignore list..

GFY :laugh:


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

BraveHeart007 said:


> Something stupid


 That's nice, want a cookie?


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

You know what this means







f*cking Ignorants


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Well harley it's not like everyone was having a civil and intelligent discussion before some idiot came in and started claiming it was HIS website and everyone who didn't agree with him was pathetic or anything.

God I wish the mods would do something about this guy


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Well harley it's not like everyone was having a civil and intelligent discussion before some idiot came in and started claiming it was HIS website and everyone who didn't agree with him was pathetic or anything.
> 
> But sh*t, will the mods do anything about? Betting starts now...


 I was referring to the anti-canada Comment


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Well harley it's not like everyone was having a civil and intelligent discussion before some idiot came in and started claiming it was HIS website and everyone who didn't agree with him was pathetic or anything.


Actually it was an anti-everybody but Americans.
Except Muslim Americans, I think he means f*ck them too

Edited* Sorry , quoted wrong person.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

winkyee said:


> MR HARLEY said:
> 
> 
> > I was referring to the anti-canada Comment
> ...


 Well im sorry im an idiot and cant read properly


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

These political threads are a waste..Bush prob is going to win anyways..


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

i have a lot of muslim friends that are voting for kerry. does that mean that they're terrorists too? oh wait, their parents are probably voting kerry too. ahh, but i guess the fact that they're citizens that've lived in the u.s. for as long as you are old doesn't mean a thing.

get a clue.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

hyphen said:


> i have a lot of muslim friends that are voting for kerry. does that mean that they're terrorists too? oh wait, their parents are probably voting kerry too. ahh, but i guess the fact that they're citizens that've lived in the u.s. for as long as you are old doesn't mean a thing.
> 
> get a clue.


 Yeah and I bet they are tired of being singled out as "muslims"...in a bad way.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Filo said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > i have a lot of muslim friends that are voting for kerry. does that mean that they're terrorists too? oh wait, their parents are probably voting kerry too. ahh, but i guess the fact that they're citizens that've lived in the u.s. for as long as you are old doesn't mean a thing.
> ...


 no, because we don't have nazis like braveheart running around in los angeles. hell, the landlord at my mom's cafe is muslim, and that's in beverly hills. it seems like people who haven't seen a damn middle eastern person these days thinks he's a terrorist.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

hyphen said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > hyphen said:
> ...


 Well ya gotta have mercy on the ignorant. Remember california is the most diverse state by far.


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## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

hyphen said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > hyphen said:
> ...


 Hyphen your just young cocky little gang banger in LA. Whos paradigm is shaped by your little asian gang bang friends. I suggest you stick to posting questions about fish. Because you certainly dont know what your talking about regarding world events or politics.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

BraveHeart007 said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


lol, keep talking your nonsense, numbnuts. i'm sorry, but i dont "gang bang" and my friends don't "gang bang" either. why don't you quit posting sh*t in your attempt to make an entire peoples look bad. you obviously don't have a f*cking clue about muslim americans, so why don't you shut your mouth with your sly ass remarks about them?

and you obviously wouldn't know a "gang banger" if you saw one. go back to your backwoods trailer and keep posting your naive sh*t.

*edit*

i'm also sure you know plenty about my political views, seeing as how i've kept my mouth relatively shut about the topics. oh wait, did my post about you being a nazi release my opinions on the election or "world events"? lol.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

oh yeah, i have like 2 asian friends that i regularly hang out with. so uhh...yeah...go home nazi?


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

hahaha, you are a true piece of sh*t braveheart.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

i forgot to mention...for a cocky little gang banger in LA, i sure do make less grammatical errors than you, braveheart. <3


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Eh whenever I get pissed at him I just think of it this way; Every morning when he wakes up, he's still going to be a confused stupid f*ck who lashes out at everything because he understands nothing. He's a pain in the ass to have to deal with here but whatever, at least I don't have to look in the mirror and be him.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Eh whenever I get pissed at him I just think of it this way; Every morning when he wakes up, he's still going to be a confused stupid f*ck who lashes out at everything because he understands nothing. He's a pain in the ass to have to deal with here but whatever, at least I don't have to look in the mirror and be him.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

elTwitcho said:


> Eh whenever I get pissed at him I just think of it this way; Every morning when he wakes up, he's still going to be a confused stupid f*ck who lashes out at everything because he understands nothing. He's a pain in the ass to have to deal with here but whatever, at least I don't have to look in the mirror and be him.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

someone photoshop hitler here. he needs a swastika.

image posted without permission from image owner. deleted -Xenon


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

THAT's braveheart???

lol


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

guhhh...who did this?









image posted without permission from image owner. deleted -Xenon


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Dude, I so win

Look at the picture with that song in mind, that "so happy toogether" thing

image posted without permission from image owner. deleted -Xenon


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Dude, I so win
> 
> Look at the picture with that song in mind, that "so happy toogether" thing


 AHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHA


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

He's so totally going to have an aneurysm


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> He's so totally going to have an aneurysm


 hahahah, expect a popped vein in his forehead.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Aw braveheart, I'm sorry, give us a hug


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GUYS ARE HORRIBLE!! LOOOOOOOOOL!!!


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Filo said:


> ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GUYS ARE HORRIBLE!! LOOOOOOOOOL!!!


 we <3 him.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Dude, I so win
> 
> Look at the picture with that song in mind, that "so happy toogether" thing


LMAO.... does anybody see the background in his bathroom.."you don't"? here let me make the picture closer in for you...ah here ya go...


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

BraveHeart007 said:


> Here is a suggestion, why dont you open your own website on your soil. So you can all rendezvous and have a verbal orgie on these matters. And save us the time and effort from having to reply to your anti american liberal secular rhetoric......


 Awww, is someone being mean about youw pwecious wittle chwistian shithole you call home???


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> BraveHeart007 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a suggestion, why dont you open your own website on your soil. So you can all rendezvous and have a verbal orgie on these matters. And save us the time and effort from having to reply to your anti american liberal secular rhetoric......
> ...


 America is at war. The goverment is doing the best they can to defend its citizens from a relentless, blood thirsty enemy that is hiding among its cictizens and still balance the rights of those people with similar backgrounds and ideologies as the enemy. It's not easy.

*As amusing as it is to hear anti-American, anti-Judeo/Christian hate speech from burka-wearing, honorary Al Queda sycophants -it gets old after a while. *


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> *As amusing as it is to hear anti-American, anti-Judeo/Christian hate speech from burka-wearing, honorary Al Queda sycophants -it gets old after a while. *


 As amusing as it is to watch you and braveheart weeping into your maxipads about anti american hate the jews support al quaeda rhetoric, it gets old when you realize THERE ISN'T ANY OF IT IN THIS THREAD.

Mods - Since he started the name calling with "burka-wearing, honorary Al Queda sycophants" am I allowed to call him an inbred, buck toothed paranoid stupid f*ck ******* who should be congratulated for climbing off his sister long enough to post more inanity or is it not flaming when right wingers do it and I should let it slide?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Stupid Is What Stupid Says - y'all can interpret that however the way you want to...


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Mods - Since he started the name calling with "burka-wearing, honorary Al Queda sycophants" am I allowed to call him an inbred, buck toothed paranoid stupid f*ck ******* who should be congratulated for climbing off his sister long enough to post more inanity or is it not flaming when right wingers do it and I should let it slide?


 I am not paranoid. While you live safely tucked away in the Canadian artic, Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis. On September 11, I watched thousands of good people die at the hands of these lunatics.

The only thing that separates the U.S. from a place like Russia that has been victimized from repeated attacks by Muslim terrorists isthe hard work done by our law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

If some Muslim cictizens feel offended by the work that needs to be done, then that's too bad. Go cry on Judazz's shoulder.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis.


 That's a load of bullshit Bullsnake, and you know it - you cause more terror than you have to swallow, so don't make yourself look more pityful than you already are...
The reason why you have to deal with terrorism on a daily basis is because your dimwit leader choose to do so: he decided to invade that place called Iraq, and you support it.
The US waltzed in there, shot up and bombed the sh*t out of the place, caused massive amounts of civilian casualties, caused chaos and ararchy with the influx of all sorts of unwanted persons and organisations as a result, and then you have the nerve to blame the Iraqi's themselves, and call those that defend their own home or want the US out of their country (who btw. have nothing to do with 9/11 - but screw that: they're muslims, right?) terrorists?
If an American did the same he would be an outstanding patriot: up yours with your fine double standards...

The difference between Russia and the US may partly be intelligence and secret service work.
But in both cases, the politicians are too blind to see what the real problem is. Both the US's and Russia's problems with terrorism didn't start in the last decade: it goes back much further, but I guess those are black pages in the national histories, because the truth can be quite embarrassing (and undermining) to those in charge, and the messages they spread. And if they are not black pages, we witness the biggest examples of national amnesia and deliberate selective information intake ever...

Now you can call me terrorist sympathizer again... And to be honest: if all Americans are like you or Braveheart, I might just be


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> BraveHeart007 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a suggestion, why dont you open your own website on your soil. So you can all rendezvous and have a verbal orgie on these matters. And save us the time and effort from having to reply to your anti american liberal secular rhetoric......
> ...


 what the hell was that for ?







i'm not christian but this comment is way out of line - and don't tell me - oh no, he started it, this is like 3rd grade excuse.

Anyway, Xenon was right - these political discussions are just getting uglier each day


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > BraveHeart007 said:
> ...


_That_ is way out of line :rock: Excuse me J., but I didn't hear you complain when racist stuff was posted, stuff that was _really_ out of line...

The christian part was a reaction to his repeated (and irrelevant, for that matter) usage of the word secular to make a statement: if I do it the opposite way it's all of a sudden a bad thing?:rock:


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> I am not paranoid. While you live safely tucked away in the Canadian artic, Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis.


 Yes and maybe if you were a little more informed you'd know that Canada was the victim of international terrorism long before September 11th ever happened. But when Sikh extremists blew this sh*t out of an airplane on our coast did we run around like a bunch of f*cking cowards screaming "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD DO SOMETHING EVEN IF IT'S THE WRONG THING JUST DO IT!"? Did we single out everyone in a turban for extra thorough security checks? Did we enact legislation to make it easier for the system to abuse people's rights? Hell no we f*cking did NOT.

Don't assume just because YOU can't handle the prospect of terrorism without bending to the terrorists like scared little sheep that when you see another country that isn't full of f*cking cowards willing to give up their ideals for safety it's because they've never experienced terrorism before. If terrorists killed 3,000 or even 6,000 or even 10,000 people in Toronto tommorow it wouldn't change a god damn thing about how I feel. When you let them change your way of life because you're scared shitless you willingly do exactly what it is they want.

And as another side note, the UK had NUMEROUS attacks at the hands of the IRA and you didn't see them running around terrified of terrorists each waking moment. You "patriots" supporting the "do whatever to whoever policy so long as I'm safe" are actually pretty unique in history for your "bravery"...


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Jewelz said:
> 
> 
> > Judazzz said:
> ...


 I don't agree with what Braveheart said - I think this is a forum where everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion regardless where they are..

However, aren't you the one who always preaches tolerance and political correctness ? Or does it only apply to people who are not american or christian ?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Jewelz said:
> ...


 I'm sorry but yes, someone who blurts out the most insane BS just to insult others (because that's all he has to offer), does piss me off royally and makes me say things I probably shouldn't. But I do - sue me...









Same applies to presumptuous remarks and outrageous accusations, for that matter: if people are too dumb to understand what I say, they should stick to their Tonka toys, sister or whatever rocks their cradle: I don't want to explain what I mean just because someone's too dumb to understand, or doesn't want to. But when I do, yes, things might get a bit ugly - sue me...









And it all has nothing, I repeat, nothing, to do with being Christian, American, Muslim, Jewish, European, Martian or whatever: I hoped at least you would see that...


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis.
> ...


If I remeber correctly, this thread was about Muslim resentment towards George Bush.

September 11, was well before the invasion of Iraq. The acts of terrorism have everything to do with Islamic Fundamentalism. We did nothing to Saudi Arabia to inspire Osama Bin Laden to attack the U.S. other than protect them from an Iraqi invasion in 1991.

Non-Americans need to believe that the U.S. did something so horribly terrible that the beleaguered Muslim victims of U.S. foreign policy are forced to kill our civilians in acts of terrorism to save themselves. This is bullshit.

Terrorist sympathizer under-rates your true stance in this war. You are Al Queda - Dutch Division.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> Non-Americans need to believe that the U.S. did something so horribly terrible that the beleaguered Muslim victims of U.S. foreign policy are forced to kill our civilians in acts of terrorism to save themselves. This is bullshit.


 Yes and Americans need to bomb other countries because their penises are f*cking miniscule and incapable of bringing pleasure to a woman. How fun this discussion is when we all know the mentality and motivations about everyone that isn't us because we're just so smart


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Don't assume just because YOU can't handle the prospect of terrorism without bending to the terrorists like scared little sheep that when you see another country that isn't full of f*cking cowards willing to give up their ideals for safety it's because they've never experienced terrorism before. If terrorists killed 3,000 or even 6,000 or even 10,000 people in Toronto tommorow it wouldn't change a god damn thing about how I feel.


That's bullshit. Go fix your igloo. The husky's pee just burned a hole in the side.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Don't assume just because YOU can't handle the prospect of terrorism without bending to the terrorists like scared little sheep that when you see another country that isn't full of f*cking cowards willing to give up their ideals for safety it's because they've never experienced terrorism before. If terrorists killed 3,000 or even 6,000 or even 10,000 people in Toronto tommorow it wouldn't change a god damn thing about how I feel.
> ...


 Oh what a good retort, you truly are excellent at this debating thing and you've completely proved you're not a coward like I previously thought [/SARCASM]


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

haha.. nvm.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Don't assume just because YOU can't handle the prospect of terrorism without bending to the terrorists like scared little sheep that when you see another country that isn't full of f*cking cowards willing to give up their ideals for safety it's because they've never experienced terrorism before. If terrorists killed 3,000 or even 6,000 or even 10,000 people in Toronto tommorow it wouldn't change a god damn thing about how I feel.
> ...


 Just f*cking sad , Sometimes you are aware all along someone is an asshole and then every once in a while you're surprized . Bullsnake , you surprize me..
I guess the Internal American propaganda machine works very well and you guys buy into it.
Us , that live outside the USA see it much clearer...


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

winkyee said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > elTwitcho said:
> ...


Okay, I changed my mind. You and ElTwitcho are right. If 10,000 people died tomorrow in Toronto, Canadians wouldn't do anything different. They would be like herds lemmings falling off a cliff -because they wouldn't want to "offend" anybody by defending themselves.

Absolutely clueless









You've never known anyone who died in a terrorist attack. You don't know anyone from any of those broken-hearted families that sit down to dinner every night with an empty space at the dinner table. And for what? Allah?

If it ever did happen in Canada or Dutchland, your perspective would be very different.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > I am not paranoid. While you live safely tucked away in the Canadian artic, Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis.
> ...


 But we DO deal with terrorism on a daily basis. Havn't you seen the TERROR ALERT SYSTEM! Its very scientific, whenever the administration wants to crank er up they do it! Then the media starts scrambling, its really entertaining, until it gets old. From all those times it was raised nothing happened except for states wasting money on increased security on patrol.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Bullsnake said:
> ...


 Ok you are an asshole, thats the second time (THAT I KNOW OF) you have called someone on this board a memeber of Al Qaeda. f*ck you again, piece of sh*t


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Filo said:


> But we DO deal with terrorism on a daily basis. Havn't you seen the TERROR ALERT SYSTEM! Its very scientific, whenever the administration wants to crank er up they do it! Then the media starts scrambling, its really entertaining, until it gets old. From all those times it was raised nothing happened except for states wasting money on increased security on patrol.


 How do you know it was nothing?
How do you count terrorist attacks that have never occurred?

We are just civilians reading the newspaper. We don't know enough about what the FBI, CIA and other agencies are doing to judge whether their alert systems are warrented.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

winkyee said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > elTwitcho said:
> ...


 Im really not sure why this administration is inflicting so much paranoia on the public. They know they are doing it, and they love to, because its a way to get people to do what you want. I remember a while back about the anthrax thing, people got so scared military surplus stores were being bought out of all their sh*t like never before. My father has followed politics for nearly 30 years, he said there has never been an administration that has caused so much fear that he can remember. The machine has not worked on me.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Filo said:


> Ok you are an asshole, thats the second time (THAT I KNOW OF) you have called someone on this board a memeber of Al Qaeda. f*ck you again, piece of sh*t


 Osama Jr., that's funny you said that. Your brother just sent me this pic. I guess he feels the same way.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

that is right... The United States hides behind its media...

things can be covered up and WE (the people) would never know.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> If I remeber correctly, this thread was about Muslim resentment towards George Bush.
> 
> September 11, was well before the invasion of Iraq. The acts of terrorism have everything to do with Islamic Fundamentalism. We did nothing to Saudi Arabia to inspire Osama Bin Laden to attack the U.S. other than protect them from an Iraqi invasion in 1991.
> 
> ...


Al Qaeda?







And I just visited New York (Ground Zero included) a month ago: scary thought, huh








But who knows... we better not cross paths, or I just might blow up my detonatable Levi's belt right next to your powder shovelling machine...







Or maybe not...

Bummer man: I thought for a second you were actually one of the more intelligent people here on the political right side, but I guess you live up to your initials nicely, BS.
You and Braveheart go well together...









All I have to say is that if your politicians did a better job in the 70's and 80's, and instead of trying to buttfuck everyone into submission actually thought for a second before choosing who to support, who to offer weapons and who to turn your back on, 9/11 very well never had happened...
Oh well, it did, and I guess you haven't learned a goddamn thing ever since. Sometimes it takes it takes even more than that, apparantly...









But if you'd now excuse me: I have to beat some veiled women into submission before I go the mosque to target practice whilst shielding behind children and chanting koran verses in extacy. And afterwards, I have my first lesson in the course "How to blow myself up in public, and make it look good on TV"


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

I think that I have a better understanding of what Israel has to go through now. Under constant pressure and attack from terorrists and hostile forces... Yet at the same time, constantly bitched at and told how to handle their business peacefully from those who are NOT in the same situation, and thus have no clue what they are talking about.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

> From all those times it was raised nothing happened except


Yeah, it must be bad then... Funny though, I thought that nothing happening was a sign that it was working.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> If it ever did happen in Canada or Dutchland, your perspective would be very different.


 Yo thick head, are you listening yet? Helllo?????

IT ALREADY HAPPENED IN CANADA. WE HAVE SUFFERED TERRORIST ATTACKS BEFORE YOU GUYS SUFFERED SEPTEMBER 11TH. Why am I repeating myself when I was perfectly straight forward the first time around? Do you lack the ability to understand ANYTHING?

As I said ALREADY, WE HAVE HAD TERRORIST ATTACKS ON OUR SOIL. THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS HAD TERRORIST ATTACKS ON THEIR SOIL. YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST PEOPLE TO SUFFER A TERRORIST ATTACK NOR WILL YOU BE THE LAST.

Are you freaking following yet or should I record a mp3 saying this really loudly so you can play it on repeat in your headphones until you get it? You can't just jam your head up your ass and say "if you guys ever got attacked by a terrorist you'd go apeshit and act like a bunch of pussies just like we did" regardless of the fact that IT ALREADY DID HAPPEN AND NO WE DIDN'T.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > If it ever did happen in Canada or Dutchland, your perspective would be very different.
> ...


 Calm down. You'll soil your pants. Again.

What do you think is happening in America? I don't know what your seld dogs have been telling you, but life is going on pretty much the same in America. Nobody is being harassed or sent to interm camps. As far as a civilian can see, we just have some extra security at the airports.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Yes sled dogs and sh*t, that's a good one









I never realized life was going on pretty much the same, they had alot of "terror alerts" before 9-11 did they? What purpose do those serve exactly? When you wake up and the government goes "We're pretty certain somewhere in america, somebody is going to get fucked by al quaeda, probably today or this week" what precautions do they advise you to take? What extra security measures that would justify telling this to civilians do they ask civilians to perform?

Nobody is being harassed? Tell that to any Muslim who's tried to get on an airplane, or who was detained after september 11th. Tell that to any muslim who has to listen to idiot assholes like yourself spout their ignorance because they think popping out of mom's p*ssy on American soil somehow makes them more american than the guy who struggled his ass off to not only physically get over to your country but go through the hoops to get citizenship.

But hey sled dogs and sh*t, was there ever any doubt you don't understand a f*cking thing about anything greater than a 10 mile radius from your back yard?


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Nobody is being harassed? Tell that to any Muslim who's tried to get on an airplane, or who was detained after september 11th. Tell that to any muslim who has to listen to idiot assholes like yourself spout their ignorance because they think popping out of mom's p*ssy on American soil somehow makes them more american than the guy who struggled his ass off to not only physically get over to your country but go through the hoops to get citizenship.
> 
> But hey sled dogs and sh*t, was there ever any doubt you don't understand a f*cking thing about anything greater than a 10 mile radius from your back yard?


Awww...boo-hoo you're getting tears all over your Mukluks.

Yes, Canada has suffered terrorism, but not on the scale that America has. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but the terrorists American law enforcement is searching for are Muslims.

Real Americans are willing to accept extra security measures that need to be imposed to increase their own safety. The people who are complaining because of goverment security are probably people who dislike the American goverment to begin with and probably shouldn't be in the country anyway.

America is full of ungrateful immigrants who hate America and Americans. I have met more than a few.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Bullsnake said:
> ...


 You just contradicted youself. You claim we have to deal with terrorism every day in the United States, and now you make a small claim against that, stating there is little difference. And there are people at camps, Guantanamo Bay being one of them.







For your childish comments complaining of people who want reform. Brush up on your American history because reform is what the U.S.A. is about.







to you


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Filo said:


> You just contradicted youself. You claim we have to deal with terrorism every day in the United States, and now you make a small claim against that, stating there is little difference. And there are people at camps, Guantanamo Bay being one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guantanamo Bay is where Al Queda and Taliban terrorists are kept -and where you should be.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Filo said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > elTwitcho said:
> ...


Bullsnake doesnt have to claim claim that "we have to deal with terrorism every day", thats a plain fact, and its also a fact for many other countries. And if you would be so kind to brush up on history, sympathy, pardons, and loving the enemy gets you no where.


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## seharebo (Jul 19, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> I am not paranoid. While you live safely tucked away in the Canadian artic, Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis. On September 11, I watched thousands of good people die at the hands of these lunatics.
> 
> The only thing that separates the U.S. from a place like Russia that has been victimized from repeated attacks by Muslim terrorists isthe hard work done by our law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
> 
> If some Muslim cictizens feel offended by the work that needs to be done, then that's too bad. Go cry on Judazz's shoulder.


 Do you really play into this terror? I am sorry, but my life and behavior did not change after Sept. 11. We lost three thousand people compared to the tens of thousands other countries have lost in these attacks. I am sorry, but in the large scheme of things that is a pretty small number. To live in fear is to waste your life. The terrorist alert system with its pretty colors is pointless. I wonder what the terrorists think when they watch our media streams. I can see it now. Terrorists: "Those idiots think we are going to attack today, as we sit here on our asses". I see it as a way to inform the terrorists how much we don't know about what is going on and how we have failed to protect ourselves. The intelligence is probably no better than it was before, but now we decide to advertise how poor it is. How stupid.....

Name one thing that you have changed in your daily life in fear of terrorist attack...I dare you....


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

seharebo said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > I am not paranoid. While you live safely tucked away in the Canadian artic, Americans have to deal with the issue of terrorism of a daily basis. On September 11, I watched thousands of good people die at the hands of these lunatics.
> ...


 Thank you!







We had attacks during the Clinton administration, but we never had a stupid color strip to be scared of. Our administration should be trying to comfort and reassure us, not scare us. Look at all the presidents in the past, none of them inflicted paranoia as much as this one.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

User said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Bullsnake said:
> ...


 When have I said I loved the enemy. You are a damn fool just like bullsnake!


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Filo said:


> User said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


Were in my post were did I say you (filo) love the enemy. I said "sympathy, pardons, and loving the enemy gets you no where." I wasn't talking directly at you, so f*ck you too.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

User said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > User said:
> ...


 lol :laugh:


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Filo said:


> User said:
> 
> 
> > Filo said:
> ...


 Oh I see, now its funny since we both vented right?


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

i think im the only active muslim pfury member...but i still dont know why people are so threatened by us...all day everyday someones talking about terrorrism this and terrorrism that...so ill enlighten u with some facts and opinions instead of cursing and name calling

effects of the bush campaign and why muslims are voting for kerry

1). 2 billion muslims in the world, one of the fastest growing religions in the world, if we were all terrorists, the united states of america would not be in existence right now.

2). the only reason why i think muslims prefer kerry is because of the fact that bush just isnt cutting it as president, he hasnt done much for the country except a few tax cuts for the wealthy and spread his anti-muslim and anti-terrorist and patriotic views throughout the united states, which spreads hatred towards us and our people.

3). braveheart probably is posting all these things maybe because he had a bad experience with a muslim or something.

4). i have a goatee, and everytime i go on a plane even tho im 17 i get pulled to the side on security checks and so does my dad which is real embarrassing, one time i was sent into a room and was forced to take off all my clothes except my boxers. i think i can speak for all of us when i say that getting a side search is pretty frustrating just for the fact that a stupid muslim saudi arabian man and his groupy believers and stupid all american unibrowed texas man and his all american chronies came across each other.

5). if bush is re-elected the way things are going...muslim people are probably fearing the fact that well probably be in the same internment camps the japanese were and all the muslim countries will be clashing over with the united states

6). the only reason i and millions of other muslims have a dislike for jews is the palestinian crisis, in which the u.s. is supporting israel...at first when kerry was pro jew my parents were going to vote for bush but now its kerry all the way

go ahead and bash me now if u think my opinons are stupid or worthless compared to ur views but thats all i can say to u cuz im done with political threads


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

interesting k fizzly --do you often leave early to catch your flights in anticipation for those checks. I feel you on that, my dad looks arab and he is always checked as well.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

K-fizzly if you have a dislike for "jews" as you put it then you are really in no position to complain about bias towards muslims; and btw, Kery is an Israel supporter, so is his VP, John Edwards


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

i never complained...but i guess i didnt word it correctly...i meant the dislike for the way things are in isreal and palestine...im not an avid jew hater

yea i am aware of that fact...but kerry's pros outway bush's

filo........i do leave early but its always the same they see my middle name mohamad "sir can u please step aside?"

edit

if i did dislike i jews i still would treat them the same as ne one else...and have i ever posted ne anti jewish statements or stories?


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> K-fizzly if you have a dislike for "jews" as you put it then you are really in no position to complain about bias towards muslims; and btw, Kery is an Israel supporter, so is his VP, John Edwards


 Your post pretty much speaks for me as well.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

User said:


> Filo said:
> 
> 
> > Bullsnake said:
> ...


 Do you even understand what this conversation is about? Where did I say to offer sympathy or pardons or to love the enemy? The f*ck is wrong with you?


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## User (May 31, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Do you even understand what this conversation is about? Where did I say to offer sympathy or pardons or to love the enemy? The f*ck is wrong with you?


I never said any members name for the second damn time, I was talking about people in past, but I'm no history teacher so who gives a damn anyway? Reading comprehension comes in handy, but just incase my grammar or wording wasn't perfect enough for you or anyone else to understand, than I apologize.

But try an twist words and posts all you like, if you so enjoy it.









*Wonders why naughty rotten internet arguer elTwitcho gives a damn about what I post anyway, I didnt respond to his other posts - maybe he cares more.*


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Mods - Since he started the name calling with "burka-wearing, honorary Al Queda sycophants" am I allowed to call him an inbred, buck toothed paranoid stupid f*ck ******* who should be congratulated for climbing off his sister long enough to post more inanity


Sure if you want to be an 8 year old again. So much for "debating" if YOU have to resort to name calling. It just shows the maturity level your willing to stoop to.



elTwitcho said:


> or is it not flaming when right wingers do it and I should let it slide?


You know, like Ive said over and over and OVER again. Theres this really nice helpful button that looks like this







. It can be found on EVERY post. Should you neglect to use it, you have no right to complain about "right wingers" getting away with flaming.

Because this thread has gotten out of control, this thread is now closed.


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