# Lets Talk About Education



## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

I am starting to wonder.

Here is my story: A lot of you know me as DannyBoy or Mr. Lahey on these boards. I have been in college for 2 years, but have never even gotten an interview in the fields I am studying, despite being an honour roll student. Many people in my current program work in town at Arby's or Staples, if they are lucky. In fact, most of the people I know who did go to school have come out of college with a massive amount of debt, and a chain wrapped around their ankles securing them to a wage slave life.

I am considering changing my program to go into a different subject which I can use to apply as a teacher (after a year of teacher's college) because there are simply no jobs in my field.

For the last month and a half, I have been living off of money I earned last summer, and student loan (debt), because I cannot even get a job at a cinema or a retail store up north where I moved to.

Before I was in college:

-Good job making decent wage
-$20,000 savings

Since becoming college educated:

-Can't get a job unless I want to flip burgers 
-$8000 in student debt.

I think I made a rather fatal flaw leaving a good job, no matter how "dead end" it may have seemed, to become educated, like was constantly preached to me.

Here is a documentary I am currently watching (I don't think conspiracy is the word I would use, but I do think there is a system for taking people's money)






"College students need to be taught how to think for themselves; there is no value in a college degree if everyone else has one"

I wish I had grown up on a farm, because everyone will always want to buy what you are selling.

If you got to the 32 minute mark there is a great bit about how the standards have fallen so low that no one can stand out anymore.

"20% of waiter/waitress positions have been filled by college graduates"


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

may i ask what you are studying?

i've pretty much completed my second year. got one more to go till i graduate.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

Fish and Wildlife Technician but I'm leaving the program.


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Im taking a business degree and in Canada it is pretty much worthless here.. but take it abroad and your a godsend


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


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## wisco_pygo (Dec 9, 2009)

My take on college, is that unless you're going into a specific field like medicine, law, computer programming, teaching, political science, nursing, DMS, ect....college is really unnecessary.

Public college schooling and high school education are more of indoctrination processes than educational processes. Your individualism is stripped form you, and you are taught to be a conformist. Work in groups, do what you're told, absorb worthless information, perform meaningless tasks, and prepare yourself to be an ant, working on an ant farm in a fascist corporate controlled country.

I would advise anyone who wants to go into business, to go in head-first. Learn the ropes on an entry level position in a business that interests you, save money, implement your ideas on your own business. I have countless friends who have business admin and marketing degress who are currently working in factories, selling clothes at American Eagle, and serving drinks at some dive bar.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

His Majesty said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.

The field has been publicized as one of opportunity, but the reality is that the years in school are not nearly as important as having a single connection when it comes to getting a job.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

The problem I see with people not having work when finishing college is the degree they study. Lets say for example you pick to do your under grad in History, will a history degree will only help you if you want to become a teacher or professor. Not the field you are picking is also very limited IMO. You have to talk to a counselor and ask the hard questions. What type of jobs can you expect to get. Some say a business degree is a waste IMO it;s not. A person with good sense can get a job in the corp world an move up really easy with a business degree. You just need to figure what you want to do and see of their are a lot of opportunities in that field.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

10pointers said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.
[/quote]

i didnt mean to offend. but unfortunately its the truth. im not saying you wont be successful. but in terms of a degree such as yours its not worth the money or time you put into it.

as wisco said if your degree is not in the sciences, computing, maths, medicine, law and the such then the degree is only as good as the person taking it.

like business studies. pointless in my opinion. you dont need a degree in business to become successful in it. the majority of the successful business men dont have any higher education. because its not needed.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

sadboy said:


> The problem I see with people not having work when finishing college is the degree they study. Lets say for example you pick to do your under grad in History, will a history degree will only help you if you want to become a teacher or professor. Not the field you are picking is also very limited IMO. You have to talk to a counselor and ask the hard questions. What type of jobs can you expect to get. Some say a business degree is a waste IMO it;s not. A person with good sense can get a job in the corp world an move up really easy with a business degree. You just need to figure what you want to do and see of their are a lot of opportunities in that field.


Have you graduated yet?


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

wisco_pygo said:


> The problem I see with people not having work when finishing college is the degree they study. Lets say for example you pick to do your under grad in History, will a history degree will only help you if you want to become a teacher or professor. Not the field you are picking is also very limited IMO. You have to talk to a counselor and ask the hard questions. What type of jobs can you expect to get. Some say a business degree is a waste IMO it;s not. A person with good sense can get a job in the corp world an move up really easy with a business degree. You just need to figure what you want to do and see of their are a lot of opportunities in that field.


Have you graduated yet?
[/quote]

Nope. I was working in the mortgage world making bank and didnt have time for school but that went away about a few years ago. I am a year away from finishing and right now I make good money but I cant move up to management because I didn't have a degree.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

Would anyone agree that it is a bad decision to get into a degree that is based on service?



sadboy said:


> The problem I see with people not having work when finishing college is the degree they study. Lets say for example you pick to do your under grad in History, will a history degree will only help you if you want to become a teacher or professor. Not the field you are picking is also very limited IMO. You have to talk to a counselor and ask the hard questions. What type of jobs can you expect to get. Some say a business degree is a waste IMO it;s not. A person with good sense can get a job in the corp world an move up really easy with a business degree. You just need to figure what you want to do and see of their are a lot of opportunities in that field.


Have you graduated yet?
[/quote]

Nope. I was working in the mortgage world making bank and didnt have time for school but that went away about a few years ago. I am a year away from finishing and right now I make good money but I cant move up to management because I didn't have a degree.
[/quote]

Do you think selling mortgages is a good future ?


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Yes. But if you get a masters in then I think you can easily find a job in the field of your study somewhere in the country.



10pointers said:


> The problem I see with people not having work when finishing college is the degree they study. Lets say for example you pick to do your under grad in History, will a history degree will only help you if you want to become a teacher or professor. Not the field you are picking is also very limited IMO. You have to talk to a counselor and ask the hard questions. What type of jobs can you expect to get. Some say a business degree is a waste IMO it;s not. A person with good sense can get a job in the corp world an move up really easy with a business degree. You just need to figure what you want to do and see of their are a lot of opportunities in that field.


Have you graduated yet?
[/quote]

Nope. I was working in the mortgage world making bank and didnt have time for school but that went away about a few years ago. I am a year away from finishing and right now I make good money but I cant move up to management because I didn't have a degree.
[/quote]

Do you think selling mortgages is a good future ?
[/quote]

The market in the mortgage world is gone. Mortgage is only good when the market is up and that wont happen for another 10 to 15 years. Mortgage is a cycle and right now it's been at a low point.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

sadboy said:


> Yes. But if you get a masters in then I think you can easily find a job in the field of your study somewhere in the country.


That's a big risk

I am thinking if I do go back to school, it will be internet/computers related, or resource related.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Are you good at math? engineering is always good.


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Good luck, Danny!...







...Hang in there, bud!...







....Your opportunity will come...Just be patient...Especially the field your in....however, if you decide to switch majors, computer science and engineering is the definitely the way to go!...Look at the Washington Post (a major US newspaper) in the classifieds (job section) on Sundays and you will see just about every potential employeer asking for engineering and computer science degrees as necessities with starting salaries in the 60K range!...


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## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

wisco_pygo said:


> My take on college, is that unless you're going into a specific field like medicine, law, computer programming, teaching, political science, nursing, DMS, ect....college is really unnecessary.
> 
> Public college schooling and high school education are more of indoctrination processes than educational processes. Your individualism is stripped form you, and you are taught to be a conformist. Work in groups, do what you're told, absorb worthless information, perform meaningless tasks, and prepare yourself to be an ant, working on an ant farm in a fascist corporate controlled country.
> 
> I would advise anyone who wants to go into business, to go in head-first. Learn the ropes on an entry level position in a business that interests you, save money, implement your ideas on your own business. I have countless friends who have business admin and marketing degress who are currently working in factories, selling clothes at American Eagle, and serving drinks at some dive bar.


I agree with this 100%. I have an AS in mechanical design and drafting. All my friends that didnt go to college got a two year jump on experience over me. Every where I applied after getting my degree everyone wanted on the job experience. So I basically wasted a crap load of money. I could have bought a nice car and a house for what I paid for college. My degree hasnt done squat for me. So like wisco said unless its a very specified field dont bother. College is over rated. I cant lie and say I didnt have fun but for what I paid Id rather have my money back.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Im making alright money on the line but I am going to college for Advertising come fall. I like advertising. I can be an evil genius. I can manipulate peoples mind, send subliminal messages, and force feed people whatever I want and make them BUY BUY BUY like zombies.

I went to university last year for Law. Biggest mistake ever. It was so boring and dry, I ended up dropping out.

Every man should choose something and become educated on it. You dont have to go to college for that.

We out.


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## muskielover1 (Dec 7, 2004)

if you want to make money in life,you need to choose a career that actually has a demand for that type of work like medicine,computers,ect.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Ibanez247 said:


> I agree with this 100%. I have an AS in mechanical design and drafting. All my friends that didnt go to college got a two year jump on experience over me. Every where I applied after getting my degree everyone wanted on the job experience. So I basically wasted a crap load of money. I could have bought a nice car and a house for what I paid for college. My degree hasnt done squat for me. So like wisco said unless its a very specified field dont bother. College is over rated. I cant lie and say I didnt have fun but for what I paid Id rather have my money back.


No offense, but an AS is nothing in the job market. It's like saying your a high school grad. At least that is my experience with it.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

One of my buddies up here is an electrical engineer and could not get a job at Tim Hortons because no one here is hiring.

Moral of the Day: If you get a half decent job, hone your craft and know it cold, and be good at it. Don't go looking for the perfect situation.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Danny Tanner said:


> One of my buddies up here is an electrical engineer and could not get a job at Tim Hortons because no one here is hiring.
> 
> Moral of the Day: If you get a half decent job, hone your craft and know it cold, and be good at it. Don't go looking for the perfect situation.


That's why sometimes you need to move to another place that is hiring. Do you live in a small town?


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

depends what you want to be.... i am trying to be a uni prof or archeologist so i need a doctorate to get a high paying job, then there are obviously backup plans upon backup plans since my goal is decently hard.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

What it really depends on is what you want to do with your life. If you can find a job that will make you enough money to keep you happy, then by all means do it. Just make sure you don't get trapped in a life you hate because it makes you good money. Right out of high school a couple of my friends went and got jobs at a local die casting factory. $15 to start seems like a f*cking fortune to an 18 year old. They all bought new cars, got their own apartments, etc. Me I kept driving my old POS and spent 2 years going to college and doing sh*t minimum wage work while living with my parents. Flash forward to today, my buddies are still makeing $15 (the equivelant anyway they get raises but they're basically nothing more then inflation) and they constantly bitch about how they hate their job, but they're stuck there because they've got bills to pay, kids, etc. I make quite a bit more then they do now.








Once you get past a certain point in life, it's very difficult, if not impossible to go back. All I can say is keep that in mind.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

thats why in my opinion if you can do it go for a degree in something worse comes to worse you don't use it... school is also a sh*t ton cheaper in canada since they get federal funding so its much easier to send your kids to school.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

i wouldnt have my career without college.... but i use almost nothing i learned in college in my day to day. I guess it depends on what you want to do and whether you need a degree for it. Once you get the degree, you need to agressively pursue and keep at it, or else.. you will end up somewhere you dont want to be.



Piranha Dan said:


> What it really depends on is what you want to do with your life. If you can find a job that will make you enough money to keep you happy, then by all means do it. Just make sure you don't get trapped in a life you hate because it makes you good money. Right out of high school a couple of my friends went and got jobs at a local die casting factory. $15 to start seems like a f*cking fortune to an 18 year old. They all bought new cars, got their own apartments, etc. Me I kept driving my old POS and spent 2 years going to college and doing sh*t minimum wage work while living with my parents. Flash forward to today, my buddies are still makeing $15 (the equivelant anyway they get raises but they're basically nothing more then inflation) and they constantly bitch about how they hate their job, but they're stuck there because they've got bills to pay, kids, etc. I make quite a bit more then they do now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


good advice.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

10pointers said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.

The field has been publicized as one of opportunity, but the reality is that the years in school are not nearly as important as having a single connection when it comes to getting a job.
[/quote]

Pick a better degree.
I am successful.









Seriously though, its how you use the degree and also the degree itself. English major degree worthless? Tell that to one of the Directors in IT. I will say his emails are always interesting to read.

I will say though, some degrees are worth more than others. Engineering, computer, business (undergrads) I'd rank as 3 of the best to choose. If I had 10 applicants for a position and only time to interview 3 of them and no one had any experience at all, you bet my ass I'll interview the ones with the degrees I feel would best suit the position.

To the AS, here that would be considered high school too. The best position you could get is entry level and to move up from that, you'd have to either get a BS or spend a long time in that position just to move to senior.

Each scenario for each person is different. Some will have positive experiences with their education, some won't. It's what you make of it.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

10pointers said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.

The field has been publicized as one of opportunity, but the reality is that the years in school are not nearly as important as having a single connection when it comes to getting a job.
[/quote]

Every college only tells you the positives of having a particular agree...otherwise how would they convince people to study it? If they told you the truth that a fish and wildlife technician degree will possibly land you a job as a park ranger, you probably wouldn't have gone that route. HM speaks the truth, sorry if it hurts. I have a friend that has a MASTERS degree in fish and wildlife biology from Clemson and he got a job with the SC DNR that pays alright, but it's not as glamorous as the brochure. If you're into being outside look at Geology. Fast growing field with TONS of different options.

Lots of good information on this thread. First and foremost, medicine, accounting, and engineerng disciplines will always be in demand. Any science degree where you can basically show a potential employer you can handle difficult work will help. Business is a great field if you get a good internship, but these days most employers would rather see an MBA. There are several degrees that are a complete joke...art history? really? It used to be a college degree landed you any job you wanted straight out of graduating, now it's become that way for a master's degree. Internships are the key while in college. I can't stress that enough, because that's how you get the work experience employers like to see and get your foot in the door.

Teaching jobs are in the shitter because there are so many teaching graduates out there that don't want to move. You have to be willing to go where the jobs are. In America you can have your federal student loans forgiven if you go teach in bumfuck or the inner city for like 7 years I think.

Whatever you major in, you have to get that all important internship. Being somebody's bitch for a summer and getting college credit for it is not bad considering all the doors it will open for you.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

internships are key so is real world experience... this is why my uni does summer programs on archeological digs also the one im going on I learn to scuba dive and its an underwater dig in crete or something like that.

If you go for a doctorate your golden in any field you want to get into... everyone i know is going to at least have bachelors degree in something its almost like passing high school nowadays and masters are becoming common place


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

This is my experience

HS, I worked part time doing cycle counts for several manufacturing company's.

College I received an internship/part-time job working for a bearing manufacture in Omaha lasted 3 years, I received my C.P.M (certified purchasing manager) 3 months before graduation...Worth as much as my degree IMO.

After graduation I worked as a buyer for the same manufacturing co... Two years later I was Director Of Materials putting in 65+ hours a week. After 5 years I was allowed to buy into the family business of Transmission/DriveLine remanufacturing.

Was college worth it? Yes! I don't believe I would be where I'am today with out my my degree, internship and ability to move to a new state/market at the drop of the hat as I moved/transfered to 4 different states while working for the same company.

Nebraska has a 4.2 unemployment rate also look at the rest of the states in middle America... I hate to hear people bitching about job opportunities, yet those individuals are not willing to move to new markets! Who's fault is that?

I wouldn't trade my time at UNL and Creighton University for anything.

A quick write up, hope it helps.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

bob351 said:


> thats why in my opinion if you can do it go for a degree in something worse comes to worse you don't use it... school is also a sh*t ton cheaper in canada since they get federal funding so its much easier to send your kids to school.


School's cheap here too, unless you make it expensive. I have an A.A.S. in Drafting & Design. Went to a community college to get it. Cost me 7K including books. My little bro just got out with a Bachlors in Industrial Engineering he's 47K in the hole, which might sound bad till you look at the salary he's making now. 
What you need to do, when deciding a career, is balance the lifestyle you want to live with what you want to do. My first choice was Palentology, I was all set to haul ass for Colorado U (One of the few schools in the world where you can major in that) but then I did some research and realized the only decently paid Paleontologists were the famous one's.







I love digging up fossils but not enough to end up 50 years old and only pulling in 50K a year tops, plus school would've put me at LEAST 100K in the hole, so I kept that as a hobby and went for something else I liked.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

10pointers said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.

The field has been publicized as one of opportunity, but the reality is that the years in school are not nearly as important as having a single connection when it comes to getting a job.
[/quote]

this is the new reality...it is harsh. when wages continue to shrink, jobs continue to be outsourced to asia, labor jobs are replaced with self service computer terminals, and essential items like food and fuel continue to rise, as well as healthcare, at their current rates, who can afford anything at all? now when you add to that, college has continually raised tuition, and the interest rates on the loans from innocent private corporations trying to make an honest buck, like sally mae, that gauge students and end up charging double (by maturity) what the original loan was for, you know there's a problem. college essentially has become worthless, or at least, a poor investment when you consider the return.

let me put it to you this way...i spent all my money on college between the years of 18 and 22. i graduated with a degree in CJ, i jumped at certificate programs and all kinds of extra curriculars. i got a 97 on the civil service exam and was in the top 10% of all people tested in the state. i was #13 in line for an interview to be a cop in my home town, #12 and #11 were people who scored a 98, and a 100 respectively. #10-2 were vets, and some of them scored in the 70's, but they are vets, so they get preference. #1 was a disabled vet. in hind sight, if that was my goal, i should've joined the military instead of persuing higher education.

my wife went to california for college. she figured it'd be a solid investment to go to college on the west coast, get a 4 year degree from the school nixon graduated from, study abroad...etc. she borrowed all kinds of money, had a 50% scholarship and still ended up with 60k in debt. she got a degree in french, with a minor in elementary education. shes been trying to get a teaching position since 2007, when she graduated. she's done summer camp work, para-professional work, substitute teacher work, one interview had over 30 candidates for a single job, and she had a 3.5gpa in college...in hind sight, even if she does score a teacher position, she probably could've made just as much being a waitress all this time, and saved the 500 dollars a month she pays in college loans. she owes 25,000 in principle, but making the scheduled payments brings maturity to 64,000 dollars total. that's unreal, and no way to run a country.

people can preach about how people should have to pay for their own college and stuff like that, which is fine, but when you have a global market thats paying for its citizens college tuition, places like norway, sweeden, france, cuba, brazil, and now china is moving towards free college education for its people...preach your capitalism and how it's "right" that sally mae can gauge someone to death and profiteer off of students backs, but at the end of the day, that's the death nail for this country. more and more people will choose not to go to college, and you'll lose technical skills in the domestic marketplace. sally mae's executives will ride their yacht down to the carribbean, and this country will turn into an impoverished, thoroughly raped land and citizenry, while china, and all those countries continue to move forward. if we choose not to adapt, we will choose to die, rather than compete.

nowadays, where companies are at a hiring advantage, they're not going to pay to train someone, they'd rather pay for someone who's desperate (who they can get cheap) and already has a ton of experience...recent college grads are fucked in todays market, im sorry to say. experience is worth much much more than a piece of paper that says you can do the work without getting distracted by all the parties.

good luck dannyboy. it's a bear out there right now.


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

Willing to move to a small town in NE, MO, IA or SD you two could probably find jobs in your respective fields making great money considering the cost of living in a town/city with less than 20,000 in population...You would also be well respected within the community. However your current place of residents may be a negative for you in this area. What states is your wife licensed to teach in?


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Piranha Dan said:


> thats why in my opinion if you can do it go for a degree in something worse comes to worse you don't use it... school is also a sh*t ton cheaper in canada since they get federal funding so its much easier to send your kids to school.


School's cheap here too, unless you make it expensive. I have an A.A.S. in Drafting & Design. Went to a community college to get it. Cost me 7K including books. My little bro just got out with a Bachlors in Industrial Engineering he's 47K in the hole, which might sound bad till you look at the salary he's making now. 
What you need to do, when deciding a career, is balance the lifestyle you want to live with what you want to do. My first choice was Palentology, I was all set to haul ass for Colorado U (One of the few schools in the world where you can major in that) but then I did some research and realized the only decently paid Paleontologists were the famous one's.







I love digging up fossils but not enough to end up 50 years old and only pulling in 50K a year tops, plus school would've put me at LEAST 100K in the hole, so I kept that as a hobby and went for something else I liked.
[/quote]
yes this is why im going for my doctorate so i can teach at a uni worse comes to worse i go into the family business


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

licensed in MA...no idea on reciprocity. i have looked into moving elsewhere, but honestly the unemployment in MA is pretty low compared with a lot of other states, wages are higher, the biggest issue is cost of living...i'll have to look into nebraska. haha.

no but seriously, dont think it's not on my radar...cost of living in this area is unreal, especially when average wage is like 50k, prettymuch everyone is college educated (because everyone goes to college in MA, CT, NY, NH, VT, and then start up, or work for all the tech and education companies up this this area...the market demands very skilled positions with pointed, specific degrees. you have a point though. +1 rep to you sir.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

BTW I havent mentioned that my fiance is almost 30k in debt and has a stable, somewhat well paying job in this small northern town, which is a rarity. My situation would be a lot easier if I had freedom to move and do as I please, I would likely go back to where I am from and work a couple years to pay off my existing debt.

Also, my program offered an "internship" which ended up being a useless stint as a researcher, which was pointless and cut short and absolutely no use in getting a job in my field, so I did take the internship route, just was deceived.



bob351 said:


> thats why in my opinion if you can do it go for a degree in something worse comes to worse you don't use it... school is also a sh*t ton cheaper in canada since they get federal funding so its much easier to send your kids to school.


School's cheap here too, unless you make it expensive. I have an A.A.S. in Drafting & Design. Went to a community college to get it. Cost me 7K including books. My little bro just got out with a Bachlors in Industrial Engineering he's 47K in the hole, which might sound bad till you look at the salary he's making now. 
What you need to do, when deciding a career, is balance the lifestyle you want to live with what you want to do. My first choice was Palentology, I was all set to haul ass for Colorado U (One of the few schools in the world where you can major in that) but then I did some research and realized the only decently paid Paleontologists were the famous one's.







I love digging up fossils but not enough to end up 50 years old and only pulling in 50K a year tops, plus school would've put me at LEAST 100K in the hole, so I kept that as a hobby and went for something else I liked.
[/quote]
yes this is why im going for my doctorate so i can teach at a uni worse comes to worse i go into the family business
[/quote]

This si what I would love to do but my family is not as well off and there is no family business - if the plan didn't fall through and there were no jobs, I would be in 50k+ debt and would be working for scraps. It's too big of a leap of faith. Good luck to you tho


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## Guest (May 25, 2011)

U guys tawkin bout edumactions?


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

10pointers said:


> thats why in my opinion if you can do it go for a degree in something worse comes to worse you don't use it... school is also a sh*t ton cheaper in canada since they get federal funding so its much easier to send your kids to school.


School's cheap here too, unless you make it expensive. I have an A.A.S. in Drafting & Design. Went to a community college to get it. Cost me 7K including books. My little bro just got out with a Bachlors in Industrial Engineering he's 47K in the hole, which might sound bad till you look at the salary he's making now. 
What you need to do, when deciding a career, is balance the lifestyle you want to live with what you want to do. My first choice was Palentology, I was all set to haul ass for Colorado U (One of the few schools in the world where you can major in that) but then I did some research and realized the only decently paid Paleontologists were the famous one's.







I love digging up fossils but not enough to end up 50 years old and only pulling in 50K a year tops, plus school would've put me at LEAST 100K in the hole, so I kept that as a hobby and went for something else I liked.
[/quote]
yes this is why im going for my doctorate so i can teach at a uni worse comes to worse i go into the family business
[/quote]

This si what I would love to do but my family is not as well off and there is no family business - if the plan didn't fall through and there were no jobs, I would be in 50k+ debt and would be working for scraps. It's too big of a leap of faith. Good luck to you tho








[/quote]
thank you sir... planning on showing up the rest of the family with my dr. in front of my name since they all thought i was doomed to smoking crack and chillin on the corner


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Its just a bad time...no matter what your major is, its gonna be hard. Having a college degree is better than not having and you have to look at the long road. Having school debt is now is better than not having that degree ten, twenty years in the future. As for your field, its very very narrow. Also remember that the gov't is cutting their budget and those fields aren't a priority. Even when you DO get a job, its unlikely to be high paying. You don't need college to be successful but its proven that theres a higher chance of being successful if you have a degree. Consider a broader degree that bring you do a job in the fish/wildlife technician you wanted.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.

The field has been publicized as one of opportunity, but the reality is that the years in school are not nearly as important as having a single connection when it comes to getting a job.
[/quote]

this is the new reality...it is harsh. when wages continue to shrink, jobs continue to be outsourced to asia, labor jobs are replaced with self service computer terminals, and essential items like food and fuel continue to rise, as well as healthcare, at their current rates, who can afford anything at all? now when you add to that, college has continually raised tuition, and the interest rates on the loans from innocent private corporations trying to make an honest buck, like sally mae, that gauge students and end up charging double (by maturity) what the original loan was for, you know there's a problem. college essentially has become worthless, or at least, a poor investment when you consider the return.

let me put it to you this way...i spent all my money on college between the years of 18 and 22. i graduated with a degree in CJ, i jumped at certificate programs and all kinds of extra curriculars. i got a 97 on the civil service exam and was in the top 10% of all people tested in the state. i was #13 in line for an interview to be a cop in my home town, #12 and #11 were people who scored a 98, and a 100 respectively. #10-2 were vets, and some of them scored in the 70's, but they are vets, so they get preference. #1 was a disabled vet. in hind sight, if that was my goal, i should've joined the military instead of persuing higher education.

my wife went to california for college. she figured it'd be a solid investment to go to college on the west coast, get a 4 year degree from the school nixon graduated from, study abroad...etc. she borrowed all kinds of money, had a 50% scholarship and still ended up with 60k in debt. she got a degree in french, with a minor in elementary education. shes been trying to get a teaching position since 2007, when she graduated. she's done summer camp work, para-professional work, substitute teacher work, one interview had over 30 candidates for a single job, and she had a 3.5gpa in college...in hind sight, even if she does score a teacher position, she probably could've made just as much being a waitress all this time, and saved the 500 dollars a month she pays in college loans. she owes 25,000 in principle, but making the scheduled payments brings maturity to 64,000 dollars total. that's unreal, and no way to run a country.

people can preach about how people should have to pay for their own college and stuff like that, which is fine, but when you have a global market thats paying for its citizens college tuition, places like norway, sweeden, france, cuba, brazil, and now china is moving towards free college education for its people...preach your capitalism and how it's "right" that sally mae can gauge someone to death and profiteer off of students backs, but at the end of the day, that's the death nail for this country. more and more people will choose not to go to college, and you'll lose technical skills in the domestic marketplace. sally mae's executives will ride their yacht down to the carribbean, and this country will turn into an impoverished, thoroughly raped land and citizenry, while china, and all those countries continue to move forward. if we choose not to adapt, we will choose to die, rather than compete.

nowadays, where companies are at a hiring advantage, they're not going to pay to train someone, they'd rather pay for someone who's desperate (who they can get cheap) and already has a ton of experience...recent college grads are fucked in todays market, im sorry to say. experience is worth much much more than a piece of paper that says you can do the work without getting distracted by all the parties.

good luck dannyboy. it's a bear out there right now.
[/quote]

What? those countries are offering free college? Thats news to me. Anyways, the reason you gf is having a hard time finding a job may be due to her major. #1-french. #2-education. Nobody is learning french. Also, if your area is anything like california, teachers unions are screwing up good young teachers in favor of tenured old crappy teachers who cant get fired.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

r1der, if you guys moved here you and your girlfriend would have jobs as cops and french-literate teachers are both in demand.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

yes they are...actually some of them offer free college for foreigners...until recently, some have been pulling back on that policy though.

french was a bad idea, and she recognizes that. but it's still a 4 year degree...she's making under 20k as a para professional right now, with a four year degree...

as for having a degree vs. not. some of the most successful people i know do not have college degrees, and its because they chose to invest 60k into a business instead of into a college education. college education is great if you want to work for someone else, but business minded folks often start their own companies straight out and say the hell with college. my father didn't have a college degree, but pulled in six figures in equipment sales. of course with easy cheap credit, that business busted, but his run was over by then anyway...at this point im in the planning phases of a small, seasonal CASH business. if everything goes to plan, next year it'll be operational. i dont plan on waiting around for someone to hire me, without sounding too self righteous, im going to make it on my own, and reap the fruits of my efforts.

dannyboy, shes my wife. and im sure canada is a nice place in all seriousness, but i've got too much invested in this country to abandon it. i couldn't imagine living in another country tbh..nothing against canada.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

You know r1der, the most successful I know in LA have degrees in a field that is useful. I know a lot of people who have moved from other parts of the country to LA because that is where they found work. I am not saying more to LA but what I am saying is that if you or your wife cant find a job where you live then you guys should move to a area where you can find a job. What's holding you back? I would move in a heart beat if I couldn't find a job in LA. Not everyone who starts a bunsiness makes it. A lot more business fail then the ones that make. I hope you make it at the one you want to start.

I knew this guy who lived in Utah and had interviews in various states. Some of the interviews where done on Skype, others he had to fly do. Now he works here in LA and took a job offer making over $50 an hour.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

People who work for themselves are self starters and if successful, its b/c of their hard work. Its hard thinking of a successful business thats in demand and can be profitable. The majority of us like the stability (kinda relative in these times lol)of working for a company. If if fails, we move elsewhere. We also dont have to worry about benefits, managing employees, lawsuits etc. Besides, if the person in the business decides to open up their own storefront at least they have some experience in the company. Different strokes for different folks. For me, i'm too risk averse to start my own business...maybe one day.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

sadboy said:


> You know r1der, the most successful I know in LA have degrees in a field that is useful. I know a lot of people who have moved from other parts of the country to LA because that is where they found work. I am not saying more to LA but what I am saying is that if you or your wife cant find a job where you live then you guys should move to a area where you can find a job. What's holding you back? I would move in a heart beat if I couldn't find a job in LA. Not everyone who starts a bunsiness makes it. A lot more business fail then the ones that make. I hope you make it at the one you want to start.
> 
> I knew this guy who lived in Utah and had interviews in various states. Some of the interviews where done on Skype, others he had to fly do. Now he works here in LA and took a job offer making over $50 an hour.


California is so crappy now, I wouldn't start a business here. There was a recent rating done and Cali was DEAD LAST behind the other 49 states AND Puerto rico. Business's are moving to Texas, Arizona, Utah, and other areas. High unemployment, high taxes, high regulation, high cost of living. Add to that the emphasis on alternative energy and everything ticks up even more.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)




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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

diddye said:


> People who work for themselves are self starters and if successful, its b/c of their hard work. Its hard thinking of a successful business thats in demand and can be profitable. *The majority of us like the stability (kinda relative in these times lol)of working for a company. If if fails, we move elsewhere.* We also dont have to worry about benefits, managing employees, lawsuits etc. Besides, if the person in the business decides to open up their own storefront at least they have some experience in the company. Different strokes for different folks. For me, i'm too risk averse to start my own business...maybe one day.


You don't get rich by playing it safe.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Lahey dont know about Muskoka or wherever you live but here in Toronto LOTS of jobs.

Im getting a job to drive all Chryslers/Dodge from the plant to dealers to supplement my original job. Also a lot of warehouse work starting 22$.

Everyone here is working and getting work.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

You just learned an expensive lesson. You should go to school for a specific job, position, or promotion. The problem is, everyone has the same plan as you. They all go to school, THEN try to find a job in their field. You should know that job is there before you go to school, or that there's a high likelihood it'll be there.. Why would you spend thousands of dollars and not even be sure you'll have a job afterwards?

Take my buddy for example. He did hvac for a small company for years. It was ok work, but he didn't really like it. I told him that we periodically have positions open up at the port for refrigeration mechanics and they have trouble filling them because they want people that have experience with hvac and welding. He said welding is something he wanted to learn anyway, so he went back to school for it. It was a few years before another job opened up, but when it did they snatched him up. It doesn't sound glorious, but trust me, he's got a very good job now.

But, call me a pessimistic. I agree with what R1 said earlier about our jobs being shipped overseas. Eventually you'll have to relocate to a hut in China if you want a job.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

bob351 said:


> People who work for themselves are self starters and if successful, its b/c of their hard work. Its hard thinking of a successful business thats in demand and can be profitable. *The majority of us like the stability (kinda relative in these times lol)of working for a company. If if fails, we move elsewhere.* We also dont have to worry about benefits, managing employees, lawsuits etc. Besides, if the person in the business decides to open up their own storefront at least they have some experience in the company. Different strokes for different folks. For me, i'm too risk averse to start my own business...maybe one day.


You don't get rich by playing it safe.
[/quote]

Kinda my point. Some people are happy being safe and making a decent wage vs being risky and getting rich.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

A lot of people don't understand how large that risk is and how often small business's fail.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

small businesses fail because of 2 things.

poor planning the #1 cause. rarely do people do proper market research, or account for every single cost before they invest in an idea...
lack of effort. often people run with a idea for a month, and when they get discouraged, they get angry or bitter that it hasn't worked well.

there is a good amount of risk, but proper research and planning can all but eliminate that risk before you even break ground.


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

f*ck education go back to being trailer park supervisor youll be alright making 4800 a year

just dont f*ck with the boys


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Better yet, dont work, get pregnant, and scam the gov't for welfare, food stamps, housing, and fake a slip in the supermarket for a lawsuit. Its the american way!


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## greenmonkey51 (Aug 16, 2004)

Many good comments, but since I'm in the fish and wildlife field I can give some advice. First of all simply going through the motions for a degree in F&W won't get you anywhere. It's a party degree at many schools. That being said finishing with a 3.75 gpa gives you the first step up. In the fish and wildlife field experience is everything. The less I have to teach you the better. How do you get experience? That starts with relationships made with professors. Many have hard times finding good technicians for the summer. These positions are generally based on how you perform in a professors class. If you can't get a summer technician job, then its time to start volunteering. Any opportunities that come up where people are needed, volunteer for. Go talk to a professor, most won't turn down free help.

Now after you get a summer's worth of experience you have a step up on 50% of people out there. If you get out in the field you're in even better position. The next summer is time to go somewhere and get more diversified experience. Apply everywhere and early. IF you don't get anything, try to work for a professor again. You'll want at least one summer of experience somewhere away from your university.

With a few summer's of experience you can start putting in for a little bit higher level technician jobs. Most will be 6-8 month jobs, but always be looking to move around. Now if you were smart and got noticed in your program you can try to do an independent research project with a professor. This will be the best experience you can get from school.

If you want to get any type of secure full time job in fish and wildlife you'll have to get a masters. These positions are very competitive and are based on your experience and connections you made with professors in undergrad. After your masters if you did a good job and got a couple paper published, you should be able to find a job within 6 months of graduating if you're willing to relocate.

You'll noticed that there were two main points in my post. The most important things in fish and wildlife are professors and relocating.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

diddye said:


> People who work for themselves are self starters and if successful, its b/c of their hard work. Its hard thinking of a successful business thats in demand and can be profitable. *The majority of us like the stability (kinda relative in these times lol)of working for a company. If if fails, we move elsewhere.* We also dont have to worry about benefits, managing employees, lawsuits etc. Besides, if the person in the business decides to open up their own storefront at least they have some experience in the company. Different strokes for different folks. For me, i'm too risk averse to start my own business...maybe one day.


You don't get rich by playing it safe.
[/quote]

Kinda my point. Some people are happy being safe and making a decent wage vs being risky and getting rich.
[/quote]

Depends on what you consider rich. I do know I enjoy my job, the stability and the good money.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

diddye said:


> People who work for themselves are self starters and if successful, its b/c of their hard work. Its hard thinking of a successful business thats in demand and can be profitable. *The majority of us like the stability (kinda relative in these times lol)of working for a company. If if fails, we move elsewhere.* We also dont have to worry about benefits, managing employees, lawsuits etc. Besides, if the person in the business decides to open up their own storefront at least they have some experience in the company. Different strokes for different folks. For me, i'm too risk averse to start my own business...maybe one day.


You don't get rich by playing it safe.
[/quote]

Kinda my point. Some people are happy being safe and making a decent wage vs being risky and getting rich.
[/quote]

Depends on what you consider rich. I do know I enjoy my job, the stability and the good money.
[/quote]
being able to buy a lambo brand new and sh*t on it then proceed to set it on fire... just because you can


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

diddye said:


> small businesses fail because of 2 things.
> 
> poor planning the #1 cause. rarely do people do proper market research, or account for every single cost before they invest in an idea...
> lack of effort. often people run with a idea for a month, and when they get discouraged, they get angry or bitter that it hasn't worked well.
> ...


you make it sound like it's easy. If it where that easy then everyone would do it. It takes a lot more then just that.

You need a good idea first.
You need capital (not easy for all and even harder if you want a loan)
You need a business planwhat are you selling, who is your target, what area will you market in, and etc) 
You need to know how to keep the books in order
You need to have the business smarts.

Look I am being very general but just saying that it's not that easy.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

diddye said:


> Many good comments, but since I'm in the fish and wildlife field I can give some advice. First of all simply going through the motions for a degree in F&W won't get you anywhere. It's a party degree at many schools. That being said finishing with a 3.75 gpa gives you the first step up. In the fish and wildlife field experience is everything. The less I have to teach you the better. How do you get experience? That starts with relationships made with professors. Many have hard times finding good technicians for the summer. These positions are generally based on how you perform in a professors class. If you can't get a summer technician job, then its time to start volunteering. Any opportunities that come up where people are needed, volunteer for. Go talk to a professor, most won't turn down free help.
> 
> Now after you get a summer's worth of experience you have a step up on 50% of people out there. If you get out in the field you're in even better position. The next summer is time to go somewhere and get more diversified experience. Apply everywhere and early. IF you don't get anything, try to work for a professor again. You'll want at least one summer of experience somewhere away from your university.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice. In all honesty, the matter is settled in my mind. I found 70% of my class time was a waste of time, and I also found that I don't have the flexibility of my peers, many of whom moved hundreds of kms away for jobs.

It probably took a long time to type that out, and I read every word. Thank you for the effort


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

sadboy, if you believe in something, and can convince others to be just as enthusiastic about your product, you're looking good. I don't mean to mae it sound easy, but it's definitely not as hard as most peple think...do the research before opening your doors, make sure there's a market for your product.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

diddye said:


> You know r1der, the most successful I know in LA have degrees in a field that is useful. I know a lot of people who have moved from other parts of the country to LA because that is where they found work. I am not saying more to LA but what I am saying is that if you or your wife cant find a job where you live then you guys should move to a area where you can find a job. What's holding you back? I would move in a heart beat if I couldn't find a job in LA. Not everyone who starts a bunsiness makes it. A lot more business fail then the ones that make. I hope you make it at the one you want to start.
> 
> I knew this guy who lived in Utah and had interviews in various states. Some of the interviews where done on Skype, others he had to fly do. Now he works here in LA and took a job offer making over $50 an hour.


California is so crappy now, I wouldn't start a business here. There was a recent rating done and Cali was DEAD LAST behind the other 49 states *AND Puerto rico*. Business's are moving to Texas, Arizona, Utah, and other areas. High unemployment, high taxes, high regulation, high cost of living. Add to that the emphasis on alternative energy and everything ticks up even more.
[/quote]
is true









we had to move from puerto rico because my mom couldnt even get a jobat mcdonalds


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> theres your problem 10 pointers. fish and wildlife degree? its a degree which is very limited and plenty of people do it. so of course the makes it a worthless degree


If you want to talk condescendingly to me on this topic, at least do it after you've become successful yourself.

The field has been publicized as one of opportunity, but the reality is that the years in school are not nearly as important as having a single connection when it comes to getting a job.
[/quote]

this is the new reality...it is harsh. when wages continue to shrink, jobs continue to be outsourced to asia, labor jobs are replaced with self service computer terminals, and essential items like food and fuel continue to rise, as well as healthcare, at their current rates, who can afford anything at all? now when you add to that, college has continually raised tuition, and the interest rates on the loans from innocent private corporations trying to make an honest buck, like sally mae, that gauge students and end up charging double (by maturity) what the original loan was for, you know there's a problem. college essentially has become worthless, or at least, a poor investment when you consider the return.

let me put it to you this way...i spent all my money on college between the years of 18 and 22. i graduated with a degree in CJ, i jumped at certificate programs and all kinds of extra curriculars. i got a 97 on the civil service exam and was in the top 10% of all people tested in the state. i was #13 in line for an interview to be a cop in my home town, #12 and #11 were people who scored a 98, and a 100 respectively. #10-2 were vets, and some of them scored in the 70's, but they are vets, so they get preference. #1 was a disabled vet. in hind sight, if that was my goal, i should've joined the military instead of persuing higher education.

my wife went to california for college. she figured it'd be a solid investment to go to college on the west coast, get a 4 year degree from the school nixon graduated from, study abroad...etc. she borrowed all kinds of money, had a 50% scholarship and still ended up with 60k in debt. she got a degree in french, with a minor in elementary education. shes been trying to get a teaching position since 2007, when she graduated. she's done summer camp work, para-professional work, substitute teacher work, one interview had over 30 candidates for a single job, and she had a 3.5gpa in college...in hind sight, even if she does score a teacher position, she probably could've made just as much being a waitress all this time, and saved the 500 dollars a month she pays in college loans. she owes 25,000 in principle, but making the scheduled payments brings maturity to 64,000 dollars total. that's unreal, and no way to run a country.

people can preach about how people should have to pay for their own college and stuff like that, which is fine, but when you have a global market thats paying for its citizens college tuition, places like norway, sweeden, france, cuba, brazil, and now china is moving towards free college education for its people...preach your capitalism and how it's "right" that sally mae can gauge someone to death and profiteer off of students backs, but at the end of the day, that's the death nail for this country. more and more people will choose not to go to college, and you'll lose technical skills in the domestic marketplace. sally mae's executives will ride their yacht down to the carribbean, and this country will turn into an impoverished, thoroughly raped land and citizenry, while china, and all those countries continue to move forward. if we choose not to adapt, we will choose to die, rather than compete.

nowadays, where companies are at a hiring advantage, they're not going to pay to train someone, they'd rather pay for someone who's desperate (who they can get cheap) and already has a ton of experience...recent college grads are fucked in todays market, im sorry to say. experience is worth much much more than a piece of paper that says you can do the work without getting distracted by all the parties.

good luck dannyboy. it's a bear out there right now.
[/quote]

Honestly dude IMHO with your CJ degree. Let's look at the facts: You're really f*cking smart, you're long winded as all hell, super thorough and a bit of an asshole. You should be in law school. Why would you want to be a cop?


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

That's the issue for everyone now unfortunately. Plus side is if you get into a top tier law school, get a sh*t load of loans and do well in law school you will find a well paying job. There's options for loan forgiveness for law school but it blows. Work in public service for like 10 years I think.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


100000 for school


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


100/k??? Your kidding right? Or are you summing up the cost for the under grad plus 2 year grad & law school?


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

R1, according to the US Labor dept, the average lawyer makes 110k and change a year (2008). You'll have that law school bill paid off in no time as long as you have some financial common sense and you're good at your job.








I'm so f*cking sick of hearing about the Walmart Of The World (AKA China).....Yea, they're sending all of their kids to big modern city school for free. Then they graduate, can't find a job and go back to their third world village with no plumbing and work the family farm or end up working an assembly line job soldering iPhones together. There's assloads of graduates and no jobs for them because the entire country's economy is based on making sh*t cheap sh*t. Ain't it great to be Chinese?








One thing I've always been amused by.....if the USA education system sucks so much, how come people from all around the world (including China) come here to get an education? Christ even my little hick town cow college had 4 or 5 guys from India in it. 
I'll say it again.....college is only expensive if you make it expensive. Skip the ivy league school and go somewhere a little cheaper. Live at home and commute instead of living on campus. Go part time and work if you have to. If you can find something you like to do, that lets you live the lifestyle that you want to live, without a college degree by all means go for it, but College, if you do it right, is far from a waste of money.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

It's expense if you need housing.... that can cost an arm and an leg.


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

My wife came out of Med. school (Creighton) with over 75k in debt, I graduated with 43k in debt, it's just the way it is.

I graduated in 5 years and she got it done in 9 (residency) add in the amount borrowed to pay for living expenses and you can hit 50-100k for Med or law school easily.


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## CuzIsaidSo (Oct 13, 2009)

I watched "Waiting For Superman" today. Its a great documentary about how fukked the US educational system is. Its very interesting and very sad...our kids dont have much of a chance cuz the system cares more about teachers jobs (bad teachers at that) than they do about our kids futures


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

private school..... Once my kids are ready to go to high school,, they are going to go to a private school.


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## CuzIsaidSo (Oct 13, 2009)

After watching that documentary and going on greatschools.org and doing dome research...if i can afford it my boys are going to private school too


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

I am going to wait for High School since that is where they can easily get lost. You remember when you where that age and all the sh*t people were showing you. It's dosent cost that much IMO. I'm a Roman Catholic, and in my area they are two private schools that I really like that have great ratings in the whole country. I was told it cost around $3k to $4k per year. Not that bad if you ask me. You could always use your tax refund if you get one to pay for school that way.


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## JeanLucPicard (Nov 15, 2010)

CuzIsaidSo said:


> I watched "Waiting For Superman" today. Its a great documentary about how fukked the US educational system is. Its very interesting and very sad...our kids dont have much of a chance cuz the system cares more about teachers jobs (bad teachers at that) than they do about our kids futures


If I was a teacher I would be all for limiting the union powers. I think a healthy union is a good thing, but the teacher's unions seem to be very corrupt, in Canada here too.


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

sadboy said:


> private school..... Once my kids are ready to go to high school,, they are going to go to a private school.


Yet your property taxes (in Nebraska at least) will go to public schools, thats BULLSHIT


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

sadboy said:


> i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


100/k??? Your kidding right? Or are you summing up the cost for the under grad plus 2 year grad & law school?
[/quote]



> for more than a decade, the average cost of attending law school has increased much faster than the rate of inflation; (2) according to a Government Accountability Office Report, the average debt for a private law school student is nearing $100,000; (3) the cost of three years of law school can easily exceed $150,000. From 1997 to 2007, the median resident public law school tuition increased from $2,124 to $14,313, the median non-resident public tuition increased from $5,706 to $26,432, and the median private tuition increased $8,690 to $32,168.


no...post grad is extra money. you could buy a decent house for what law school costs.

by the way, the only way you're going to get any experience is to be a paralegal for a few years...go ahead and search for some paralegal jobs...see what they're paying. your first couple years out of college, you're going to be paying 6 figures of debt off, and making dirt money.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

I made 64k last year off rubber wrist bands. You guys talk too much and do too little. Try it, if it phails, try again.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Danny Tanner said:


> I made 64k last year off rubber wrist bands. You guys talk too much and do too little. Try it, if it phails, try again.


So you make about $30.77 an hour as a blue collar worker? Good for you. Enjoy while it last. I know a lot of guys who made bank as blue collar and then be out of a job and make only min. wage.


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## Guest (May 26, 2011)

Whats wrong with blue collar work?


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Thats my regular job.

I made 64k outside of my regular job by selling cheap garbage from China and then re-branded and sold to idiots on our end. I bought an X6 with that.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

nothing at all.....
Just not something I would do. Thats all...
Like I said I know a lot of guys who had trades and made bank for a lot of them are out of work and are not marketable


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


100/k??? Your kidding right? Or are you summing up the cost for the under grad plus 2 year grad & law school?
[/quote]



> for more than a decade, the average cost of attending law school has increased much faster than the rate of inflation; (2) according to a Government Accountability Office Report, the average debt for a private law school student is nearing $100,000; (3) the cost of three years of law school can easily exceed $150,000. From 1997 to 2007, the median resident public law school tuition increased from $2,124 to $14,313, the median non-resident public tuition increased from $5,706 to $26,432, and the median private tuition increased $8,690 to $32,168.


no...post grad is extra money. you could buy a decent house for what law school costs.

by the way, the only way you're going to get any experience is to be a paralegal for a few years...go ahead and search for some paralegal jobs...see what they're paying. your first couple years out of college, you're going to be paying 6 figures of debt off, and making dirt money.
[/quote]

My best friend just graduated from law school at Chapel Hill. Given it's a tier 1 school, but none of her graduating class are going to be paralegals. They all did crazy internships in the summer and are going to work with those firms. It's just like any job it's all about networking. Paralegals come from paralegal school


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## s4awd (Mar 28, 2011)

Def get the degree. I'm in IT but studied economics. When hiring staff, having the degree means you put in the time and effort to get to class and finish them. If you can come out with a half way decent gpa in a major that's not bs, you'll most likely have no problems coming into work and doing a decent job. Not having a degree is a crap shoot so I don't bother with those that didn't finish or thought it was a waste of time.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

r1dermon said:


> i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


100/k??? Your kidding right? Or are you summing up the cost for the under grad plus 2 year grad & law school?
[/quote]



> for more than a decade, the average cost of attending law school has increased much faster than the rate of inflation; (2) according to a Government Accountability Office Report, the average debt for a private law school student is nearing $100,000; (3) the cost of three years of law school can easily exceed $150,000. From 1997 to 2007, the median resident public law school tuition increased from $2,124 to $14,313, the median non-resident public tuition increased from $5,706 to $26,432, and the median private tuition increased $8,690 to $32,168.


no...post grad is extra money. you could buy a decent house for what law school costs.

by the way, the only way you're going to get any experience is to be a paralegal for a few years...go ahead and search for some paralegal jobs...see what they're paying. your first couple years out of college, you're going to be paying 6 figures of debt off, and making dirt money.
[/quote]

Are you talking about graduating from law school making dirt money? If working for the government, then yes. If working private firm, hell f*cking no. My friends little sister just graduated from law school and after seeing her paycheck, I'd marry that bitch.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> i'd love to go to law school...haha, and i appreciate the compliments. only problem is the 100,000 dollar bill.


100/k??? Your kidding right? Or are you summing up the cost for the under grad plus 2 year grad & law school?
[/quote]



> for more than a decade, the average cost of attending law school has increased much faster than the rate of inflation; (2) according to a Government Accountability Office Report, the average debt for a private law school student is nearing $100,000; (3) the cost of three years of law school can easily exceed $150,000. From 1997 to 2007, the median resident public law school tuition increased from $2,124 to $14,313, the median non-resident public tuition increased from $5,706 to $26,432, and the median private tuition increased $8,690 to $32,168.


no...post grad is extra money. you could buy a decent house for what law school costs.

by the way, the only way you're going to get any experience is to be a paralegal for a few years...go ahead and search for some paralegal jobs...see what they're paying. your first couple years out of college, you're going to be paying 6 figures of debt off, and making dirt money.
[/quote]

Are you talking about graduating from law school making dirt money? If working for the government, then yes. If working private firm, hell f*cking no. My friends little sister just graduated from law school and after seeing her paycheck, I'd marry that bitch.
[/quote]

Make sure not to sign a pre-nup...then fleece her for all shes worth. Turn the tables around for the guys!


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

You don't have much of a choice where you'll work after law school. Talking criminal law here, if your grades are just bleh you'll be lucky to be a public defender, if you can find anything at all. There's no way you'll be able to pay off your school loans making $45-55k a year. If your grades are good (top 15% of a top tier school) then you'll get picked up by a private firm and make at least $125k+. (in some cases much, much more.) Also, if your grades are very good you can work for the school as a law librarian or professor. Average wage for a law professor is $146k and it's very common for people to get hired straight out of law school. A majority of the time, the jerk-off teaching the class has never stepped foot in a courtroom.

If you're not in a good school, and don't have good grades then you're screwed. This market is already over-saturated, and it's getting worse with a lot of work like document review being outsourced to India. More and more of our legal work is going overseas.


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