# Exactly How Much Crap Is Necessary???



## Animal81369 (Jun 13, 2003)

I've recently had a couple 1-1/2 inch red-bellies die in my (10-gallon) tank. After reading through this site & another, I've found quite a few things that I didn't know about, before setting up my tank. I'm still not sure what it was that caused the deaths. But I've listed below a bunch of things that I've read to BUY, USE, and DO. Can anyone (that KNOWS their POOP) please comment on each with input, and add any to the list that are necessary? I'm about to do what I've read to CYCLE the tank (fishless), then after 2 weeks, hopefully get a couple more red-bellies that WILL LIVE!!! And if you can, please put these suggestions in the CORRECT ORDER:

1) Get a test kit(s) for: Ammonia, NitrItes, NitrAtes, pH, chlorine. And maybe phosphates?
2) Is a "Powerhead" necessary? I already have to keep the filter all the way down, because 1 died from being sucked to the pump!
3) "Tetra Start Right"? For chlorine/chloramine removal.
4) "Black Water Extract"? Adds color, blocks some light.
5) " Aquarium Salt" for freshwater (brand name?) or table salt (how much)?
6) "Air Stone"? 
7) "Driftwood"? 
8) Plants... names & types? Attach to driftwood, or float?
9) "Sponges, Bio Balls, Ceramic Noodles, Media Bags filled with crushed coral"
10) 82 degrees (dead-on) to make them more active and aggressive?
11) Household ammonia for set-up cycle? 4-5 drops per 10-gallons each day until nitrItes "spike"? Then, 2-3 drops per 10-gallons per day until nitrItes at 0? Full cycle? About 14 days?

There's the list I've compiled so far. Some of that really doesn't seem necessary for my tank. I am NOT trying to go broke, just have healthy piranhas in a healthy tank! Someone please lend your expertise!!!


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## Glowin_Navi (Apr 21, 2003)

Animal81369 said:


> There's the list I've compiled so far. Some of that really doesn't seem necessary for my tank. I am NOT trying to go broke, just have healthy piranhas in a healthy tank! Someone please lend your expertise!!!


 1) Get a test kit(s) for: Ammonia, NitrItes, NitrAtes, pH, chlorine. And maybe phosphates?
yes, always good, i actually only have a test kit for ammonia, but testing your levels is IMPORTANT. even after a proper cycle, levels get fucked, and u gotta stay ontop of it.

2) Is a "Powerhead" necessary? I already have to keep the filter all the way down, because 1 died from being sucked to the pump!
Always a good thing, piranas are river fish, so a current helps keep them busy, and happy, and excercise.







If youre worried about them getting sucked up get a powerhead with a prefilter, its like a canister that hooks up to the bottom and so water has to go through a filter first. Not neccesary but a powerhead is good.

3) "Tetra Start Right"? For chlorine/chloramine removal.
dont know about this in particular, but i have something that gets rid of chlorine etc, so probably the same thing, this is good when replacing water during water change

4) "Black Water Extract"? Adds color, blocks some light.
dont need it, if u like the darker look, go for it. I dont have it and my reds arent skittish

5) " Aquarium Salt" for freshwater (brand name?) or table salt (how much)?
I dont use it, but u can add it if u want too. I think its more for other fish that arent as hardy to build the slime coating? not postive, but i was told that its not needed for piranas, dont use it so cant really tell uhow much and what type.

6) "Air Stone"? 
air stone or a buble wand with a air pimp looks nice and aggitates the surface to get more oxygen into the water, not neccesary but good if u want more surface aggitation, i would reccomend either a air stone or bubble wand, but u need a air pump with it right









7) "Driftwood"? 
looks good, and gives piranas a place to hide, they deffenitely need a place to hide, so probably should get this for sure.

8) Plants... names & types? Attach to driftwood, or float?
i have fake plants, they work just fine, i think they call it plastic







, you can also get floating plants this makes darker areas in the water by shading it, so makes them more comfortable, i dont have any that float, just one fake plant that sticks under the gravel with an anchor.

9) "Sponges, Bio Balls, Ceramic Noodles, Media Bags filled with crushed coral"
again i dont use any of these, except for carbon and a foam sponge block in my filter. The carbon gets chemicals out of the water, and clears it up. and the sponge traps pieces of crap. Not everyone uses carbon but why not if it comes with your filter. I like it. Dont know much about the bio balls. I think coral helps to decreas your ph. Dont use that either. Its more important to keep your ph constant rather than at any one level. Obviously u dont want it too far from 7 though.

10) 82 degrees (dead-on) to make them more active and aggressive?
Doesnt have to b dead on but not more than 82, i have mine at 81 and yes tehy are more aggressive at higher temp.

11) Household ammonia for set-up cycle? 4-5 drops per 10-gallons each day until nitrItes "spike"? Then, 2-3 drops per 10-gallons per day until nitrItes at 0? Full cycle? About 14 days? 
No idea about this, someone else who uses ammonia can help u with that, but doesnt sound like a good idea to me.

Hope this helps.


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## Animal81369 (Jun 13, 2003)

Thanks a lot. That helps with some of it. Can anyone else with knowledge of the other stuff comment?


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## XPiranhaX (Jun 2, 2003)

if you're going to keep more then one piranha you should keep atleast 3 piranhas and you're going to need more than a 10 gallon for any king of piranha.


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## bgshortys (Apr 7, 2003)

I don't know about the household ammonia either. What i would do instead is "feed" your cycling tank fish food every day untill ammonia and nitrites settle down. The food will break down into ammonia and give your developing bacteria food to grow on.


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## MikeR (May 29, 2003)

I think the most important thing would be to get a bigger tank. Most of the things in your list are nice but not necessities. Dechorlinator and an ammonia test kit are good. A powerhead is nice but not required. A healthy P or any other fish for that matter should never be sucked into a pump. (What size of filter are you using on your 10G?)

Blackwater extract and crushed coral is not needed. Only add salt if you are treating an illness. Driftwood and plants are nice decorations but make sure your P's have some hiding places.

How many P's do you want? I would put your $ in the largest tank you can afford and have room for and in the best filtration you can afford. That is the ESSENTIAL equipment.


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

heres what I would get:

if its a 10 gallon tank I would get 
gravel to cover the bottom, 
50-75 watt heater,
either a penguin 170 filter, or an aquaclear 150 filter (both may require cutting the plastic hood to fit)
and some sort of lid.

as for test equipment
nitrate,nitrite and ammonia are the big 3, but ph is important also.

for a de-chlorinator, you don't need anything fancy, I use one from aquarium pham. inc and it treats 1 gallon per drop

drift wood is good for decoration and hiding places. it will lower the ph also which is ok for piranha.but if ph is too low already, I would stay away from it.

for cycleing, I have read so much about fisless cycles, but I don't think Ill ever try it. heres what I do, toss a couple goldfish in the tank, moniter the ammonia,nitrite and nitrate levels. the ammonia and nitrite will rize. once they drop down to zero you will have nitrate and your tank cycle is complete. do a water change to lower the nitrate levels.

I don't use powerheads, but I do use airstones for extra air on most of my tanks.

everything elese is optional.


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## Aqua Guy (Mar 19, 2003)

bgshortys said:


> I don't know about the household ammonia either. What i would do instead is "feed" your cycling tank fish food every day untill ammonia and nitrites settle down. The food will break down into ammonia and give your developing bacteria food to grow on.


 HUH???????????????
It needs dither fish for the excrement...Maybe food to feed the fish?Some will die but their crap is what starts a cycle!!!


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

Aqua Guy said:


> bgshortys said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know about the household ammonia either. What i would do instead is "feed" your cycling tank fish food every day untill ammonia and nitrites settle down. The food will break down into ammonia and give your developing bacteria food to grow on.
> ...


 not nessarly, left over food will break down into ammonia, the same ammonia produced by fish waste.you can accually cycle a tank with a rotting piece of shrimp, but I wouldn't suggest it.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

you dont want coral, it raises pH
black water extract is not necessary, I would use peat moss instead if you really want, it will lower pH and lower water hardness as well as tint the water

air stones are needed at all if you have proper filtration


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## Animal81369 (Jun 13, 2003)

Alrighty then, I'll get 2 or 3 small goldfish. And between their leftover scraps and BUTTMUD







, that should get the cycle rolling. And from other info that I've gathered, I'm going with these items that I DON'T already have:

- Freshwater Test Lab Deluxe (Ammonia, NitrIte, CO2, Chlorine, Iron, pH, hardness GH & KH)
- Seperate NitrAte Kit (not included in above)
- Chlorine/ Chloramine Remover
- Air Stones, or more likely, Bubble Wall
- Aip Pump, Airline Tubing (of course)
- Emporer Bio-Wheel + Filter Cartridges 
- Live Plants (such as "Water Sprites")
- Maybe Driftwood (Is the REAL wood bad for piranhas? And can you even buy REAL wood in store?)

I will upgrade the tank when $$$ allows. Right now I'm just looking to have about 3 1-inch baby reds.


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

Animal81369 said:


> Alrighty then, I'll get 2 or 3 small goldfish. And between their leftover scraps and BUTTMUD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 real wood is fine, it will lower ph, which is perfect for piranha's. check ebay.com for driftwood, i got some nice pieces from their


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## FeederFish33 (Jan 22, 2003)

a 10 gallon is way too small, but I'll answer you question anyway.
1) Test kit: Defininetly needed
2) Powerhead: Not for a 10 gallon
3) "Tetra Start Right": Not necessary
4) "Black Water Extract: Not necessary
5) " Aquarium Salt": Have it available in case a fish gets hurt
6) "Air Stone" : No
7) "Driftwood" : Not necessary
8) Plants... : Preferred but no necessary
9) "Sponges, Bio Balls, Ceramic Noodles, Media Bags filled with crushed coral": No
10) 82 degrees (dead-on) to make them more active and aggressive: You need a heater
11) Household ammonia for set-up cycle? 4-5 drops per 10-gallons each day until nitrItes "spike"? Then, 2-3 drops per 10-gallons per day until nitrItes at 0? Full cycle? About 14 days? : Not necessary


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