# is this a RHOM?



## Jeaddy (Nov 9, 2008)

http://picasaweb.google.com/Johnseito/Rhom#

it's been a month and grew a little. Could you id and tell me is it rhom or is it red belly? thx


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

Natts.


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## Jeaddy (Nov 9, 2008)

Ja said:


> Natts.


 what ??


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

nattereri=Red bellies

I agree with Ja'eh those be natts


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## lifeguarden (Jun 21, 2008)

Jeaddy said:


> Natts.


 what ??
[/quote]
he means red bellies!!!!


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## Jeaddy (Nov 9, 2008)

I can't believe it, I brought it and they told me it was rhom. I brought it a month a go, along with red bellies and the one I posted they say is RHOM.

I have the red bellies in a separate tank.

how do you know these are red bellies?

*I am actually piss this has happen twice now. a year ago I brought a rhom and it turn out to be something else as well.

What do you think I should do about it. I pay more for these than the red bellies. I got ripe off.

*


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

its really up to you what you do. in any case you need to research the care of each type of P. pygos which include red bellies can go in groups but serras which include the rhom must be kept solitary. if the fish you have pictured where indeed a rhom they would of killed each other by now most likely because you have more then one in the tank. rhoms need their own tank. here is a helpful link from this website that will help you id a rhom from a red belly. http://www.piranha-fury.com/information/in...;OrderBy=common also checkout opefe.com


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Get a better pic if possible, or at least a pic with only one fish on it...
I see reds and one specimen that could be different (though I doubt).

But right now it's like photographing a traffic jam and asking what car it is....

Edit : just noticed you have one pic with only one specimen, and indeed that's a redbelly...


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2010)

My advice to you is to do your homework and study the fish you wish to purchase. It is your responsibility as the buyer to know what you are paying for. Also, could just be the camera but your water looks extremely cloudy and I saw a goldfish in with your fish. Perhaps you should take sometime and read through this site before making another blind purchase.


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA (Dec 8, 2003)

When you buy a fish that is around an inch it is a gamble to what it really is and it may be a year or 2 before you can really get a positive ID. Just because they say its a rhom does not mean it is a rhom they give a general name like black piranha to almost all fish in to young to ID in the Serrasalmus grouping and alot of people do not even know how to tell the difference between a pygo and a serra. Dont get to angry at the store for you not doing your awn research (they didnt know and you didnt know). Next time research your purchase or take pics of the fish you want to buy at the store and post them here and we will try to help you get as close of an ID as we can.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

diff looks like a red belly to me, I agree with the others its up to you (esp. at that size) to know what your buying if you have the rec. see if you can take it back and exchange for a real rhom or get your monies back (dought it) if that doesn't work raise it some sell it and get a rhom with that monies from one of owr sponsers.... jmo


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## Jeaddy (Nov 9, 2008)

ksls said:


> My advice to you is to do your homework and study the fish you wish to purchase. It is your responsibility as the buyer to know what you are paying for. Also, could just be the camera but your water looks extremely cloudy and I saw a goldfish in with your fish. Perhaps you should take sometime and read through this site before making another blind purchase.


ksls,

some part of what you are saying doesn't make any sense at all. It is soley the fish stores responsibilties on the fish they sell, if they dont know they should say it instead of saying is a rhom.

and dont assume i haven't done any homework on rhom, i have been reading about it for over a year.

this is the stores responsbilities, and i am paying more for something that is less if this turn out to be red belly.

if you want ice cream and you ask for it and the store sells you cream vanallia which is cheaper, that is not your fault you buy cream vanallia after confirmation and transaction. they should know what they are selling. this makes it an issue because the price are different, you are not getting what you pay for.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

I disagree, if you wanted a rhom and was sold a red belly which you were there to observe and didn't object that's your problem. Not saying that it is right but from what I have witnessed is a lot of lfs don't know jack about P's. I forget who it was but a member here bought a Rhom that was advertised and priced out as a red belly so it works both ways. Also to me who has only kept fish for about a year and a half I can spot the difference between a Natt and a Rhom pretty easy. I am also not saying you didn't do your homework but I feel you need to do some summer schooling as well. As a consumer and a customer you have to hands on in your purchases from a piranha all the way up to a house. I would attempt to get a trade in if I were you using the statement of you will take your business elsewhere if they do nothing. If they don't do anything then check out our sponsers as they are all very knowledgeable and unlike Big Als they know the difference between a Rhom and a Natt. (that was a example no offence to big als or you)


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Lucien is also right there is one fish in that series that is questionable as a clear shot of it's anal fin is not present.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Jeaddy said:


> My advice to you is to do your homework and study the fish you wish to purchase. It is your responsibility as the buyer to know what you are paying for. Also, could just be the camera but your water looks extremely cloudy and I saw a goldfish in with your fish. Perhaps you should take sometime and read through this site before making another blind purchase.


ksls,

some part of what you are saying doesn't make any sense at all. It is soley the fish stores responsibilties on the fish they sell, if they dont know they should say it instead of saying is a rhom.

and dont assume i haven't done any homework on rhom, i have been reading about it for over a year.

this is the stores responsbilities, and i am paying more for something that is less if this turn out to be red belly.

if you want ice cream and you ask for it and the store sells you cream vanallia which is cheaper, that is not your fault you buy cream vanallia after confirmation and transaction. they should know what they are selling. this makes it an issue because the price are different, you are not getting what you pay for.
[/quote]

Dude, keep some respect. If you don't like the answer, you probably should not have asked the question.

First of all : like it has been said before : on small fishes, it is hardly possible to give an accurate ID unless you're an expert.
So don't blame the LFS : they sell what they've bought... and if they received it as a redbellie, they don't lable it like that. Why not ? Well, because they are no experts.
You claim you've been reading the subject for more then a year and you don't see the difference, so how would they know ? You really expect them to know more about it then someone who is specifically seeking for one, and has been studying it for a year ?

I don't know what you've been reading by the way, but try P-Fury and OPEFE. Then at least your ears wouldn't flap around when people talk about natts.

So start reading the real info on it, instead of boasting and blaming those who say it like it is.
Start HERE.


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## Jeaddy (Nov 9, 2008)

[quote name='RedneckR0nin' date='Feb 2 2010, 10:08 AM' post='2498675']
I disagree, if you wanted a rhom and was sold a red belly which you were there to observe and didn't object that's your problem. Not saying that it is right but from what I have witnessed is a lot of lfs don't know jack about P's. I forget who it was but a member here bought a Rhom that was advertised and priced out as a red belly so it works both ways. Also to me who has only kept fish for about a year and a half I can spot the difference between a Natt and a Rhom pretty easy. I am also not saying you didn't do your homework but I feel you need to do some summer schooling as well. As a consumer and a customer you have to hands on in your purchases from a piranha all the way up to a house. I would attempt to get a trade in if I were you using the statement of you will take your business elsewhere if they do nothing. If they don't do anything then check out our sponsers as they are all very knowledgeable and unlike Big Als they know the di

I disagree with you 100%. Its the fish stores fault, who is the victim? I lost over 50 dollars on that trade, is like they rip me 50 dollars or i gave it to them for free. plus they need people who know better to work there and if they dont know what kind of piranha it is they should say so. the moment they say it is a rhom and leading buyers to believe it that is their responsbilities and their fault.

Lucien

you response is just rediculios, i am not even going to response to you.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Alrighty then it's your right to disagree with what I said no problem but if you are coming into this hobby expecting all the lfs to be very knowledgable about there stock and experts in the hobby you are in for a rude awakeing.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Like RnR said : it's your good right to disagree. 
Good luck then


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Lucien said:


> Like RnR said : it's your good right to disagree.
> Good luck then


Bet ya wish you stayed true to your thread promise and stayed in the OPEFE section today eh Brother!!


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> Like RnR said : it's your good right to disagree.
> Good luck then


Bet ya wish you stayed true to your thread promise and stayed in the OPEFE section today eh Brother!!








[/quote]

Curiosity kills the cat you know








By the way, am I that mistaken ? This is in the science subforums, isn't it ?


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

Ooops I guess it is, well that will learn ya for keeping to your word


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## Jeaddy (Nov 9, 2008)

you guys seem to have the same frame of mind set, what is wrong with you? Lucien, why come out so offensive and angry? Lol

you know there is law protecting consumers from fraud or mislead by sellers. what if one day someone file a complaint and bring law suits? Lucien you are still on my ignore list for attack.


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## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

If you read my initial post I said it wasn't right for that to happen but it is the nature of this hobby. People that have been in this hobby a long time are trying to tell you that but you don't seem to want to listen. I agree with you it's not right and it sucks and you did get ripped off. But instead of directing that frusteration towards people that are trying to help you maybe direct it at the store and let us know what they do about it if anything. Then we as a group can help you go from there. Or just tell us were fucked and handle it however you want. Either way you asked a question and got a answer despite how you disagree with it it was my honest opinion. If that makes you angry then I will not try to help out as best I can. Either way getting pissed at us is not going to change one of your redz into a rhom is it? Also guess what this is not the first nor the last time this has happened to someone but what we are trying to help you achieve is that this is the last time it will happen to you. That was all I was trying to do take it or leave it.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> Ooops I guess it is, well that will learn ya for keeping to your word











You're right though about me occasionally taking part again in the "Piranha Discussion" forum. Actually my attention got drawn to a discussion about tank sizes for a big rhom and GG's remark about that, made me realise that on the Dutch forum the "bigger is better" view is taken for granted. So I just hád to keep on reading







After all, we don have the real big rhoms so far, so we'll have to learn from you guys.

But I didn't forget my words though (or better said, I knew someday I would go back so I choose them carefully







). I said to stay out of forums which did not allow scientific discussions. And right now, it does actually do that.

Just think I cooled down a little, and so did others.

However I'll grant you the favor : sorry for being such a prick every now and then dudes








And @GG : you're probably right I don't know anything about that specific subject we spoke about, though I must say maybe some clearing up might be useful, for it seemed it wasn't just me wondering what is going on...

But hey, it's getting offtopic...


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

RedneckR0nin said:


> Lucien is also right there is one fish in that series that is questionable as a clear shot of it's anal fin is not present.


which picture are yall talking about? only P's i see are natts. not sure if i missed a picture or not just wondering.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Jeaddy said:


> you guys seem to have the same frame of mind set, what is wrong with you? Lucien, why come out so offensive and angry? Lol
> 
> Lucien you are still on my ignore list for attack.


Care to explain ? I'm not defensive nor angry, actually in a peaceful mind today


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

AS fan said:


> Lucien is also right there is one fish in that series that is questionable as a clear shot of it's anal fin is not present.


which picture are yall talking about? only P's i see are natts. not sure if i missed a picture or not just wondering.
[/quote]

In the 5th pic, the fish on the right. It looks like the spots below the lateral line are less present and the analfin shows no color.
Due to the lightning however, I don't know if it really is like that or just looks like that...
The headshape however looks Pygocentrus...


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

yea thats still a natt i got one that looks just like it. its also slightly smaller then the others it seems.


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## Zulu Warrior (Jul 8, 2009)

No

its not a Rhom


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Well...I must disagree with people that are saying the buyer must accept all blame because they could not properly ID the fish they purchased. I also dont think the LFS is all wrong because mistakes happen. What I would do is return the fish. If the LFS takes pride in what they do...they will accept the fish back and either give you a credit or your money back. If they dont...then I would take my business elsewhere and let other in my area know how I was treated.

I hope people are not saying you need to accept this situation and chalk it up as a learning experience. Pack up the fish and see how far you get with the store. If they are like any of the LFS I deal with...they wont have a problem taking the fish back and understanding their mistake. Buying small Serrasalmus is always a risk&#8230;. so personally&#8230;.whatever species the fish turns out to be is alright by me&#8230;.but when the fish is of an entirely different genus&#8230;we have a problem.

And in the future....Serrasalmus and Pygocentrus look very different even when tiny (just look at some pictures of juvenile fish). You might not know which Serrasalmus you are getting...but you will know it is not P. nattereri.


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## Pit_man (Sep 13, 2008)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Well...I must disagree with people that are saying the buyer must accept all blame because they could not properly ID the fish they purchased. I also dont think the LFS is all wrong because mistakes happen. What I would do is return the fish. If the LFS takes pride in what they do...they will accept the fish back and either give you a credit or your money back. If they dont...then I would take my business elsewhere and let other in my area know how I was treated.
> 
> I hope people are not saying you need to accept this situation and chalk it up as a learning experience. Pack up the fish and see how far you get with the store. If they are like any of the LFS I deal with...they wont have a problem taking the fish back and understanding their mistake. Buying small Serrasalmus is always a risk&#8230;. so personally&#8230;.whatever species the fish turns out to be is alright by me&#8230;.but when the fish is of an entirely different genus&#8230;we have a problem.
> 
> And in the future....Serrasalmus and Pygocentrus look very different even when tiny (just look at some pictures of juvenile fish). You might not know which Serrasalmus you are getting...but you will know it is not P. nattereri.


unless they realy think they sold him a rhom and he brings back a red trying to rip them off. you cant blame them there. people are always trying to pull a fast one. we know he isnt but i deal with ppl all the time trying to rip me off.. something for nothing ya know. it is worth a shot tho


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I guess it depends if you have a history with the store or not. If they had a tank of these "rhoms"...then I am sure this guy isnt the first that figured out they were nattereri.


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## Pit_man (Sep 13, 2008)

true gg.. lots of factors in this. just saying things arnt always cut and dry where you can say one way or the other. they ripped him off but could think he is trying to do the same.. ur 100% correct tho, wasnt argueing that fact


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