# Serrasalmus NEVERIENSIS



## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

This is my new Serrasalmus neveriensis. According to the venezuelan exporter it was collected in the Río Neveri (Neverí river). George Fear (from SharkAquarium) was present when this fish (and i mean this very same fish) was collected...









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... here is a video from the seller of the fish i just got: 




... and the link to OPEFE where you will find another pic of my fish and valuable info on this species: http://www.opefe.com/neveriensis.html


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## bigman8258 (Aug 23, 2004)

congrats man! beatiful fish couldnt be a luckier fish, to be part of your collection. you great fish keeper.... brian


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## J-Lo (Feb 2, 2006)

Very Nice i bet those are going to be very $$$$$


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## RedSpilo (Mar 18, 2006)

wow awesome fish...cant wait to see how much dealers are gonna sell them for


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## Lewdog (Nov 14, 2005)

great looking p - lucky guy


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## IVIorgan2 (Jul 19, 2006)

Any idea on what the color of life is for this species?


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## bc_buddah (Dec 18, 2005)

wow , new p discovered? or hybread? didnt read . .


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## NIH23 (Aug 18, 2006)

VERY NICE is it aggressive?


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

Nice pick up.


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## NIH23 (Aug 18, 2006)

1 in the first vid looks like this from aquascape

http://www.aquascapeonline.com/store/scrip...sp?idproduct=62


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## RedSpilo (Mar 18, 2006)

alittle resemblance but probably not a medinae


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Yeap, Serrasalmus neveriensis closely resembles S. medinai... there are a few differences (adipose fin, snout, body spotting) but the most important thing is the collection point... and this fish (according to the venezuelan seller and George Fear) was collected at Río Neveri where S. neveriensis is found and S. medinai is not present







!



NIH23 said:


> VERY NICE is it aggressive?


Don't really know... i got it a few hours ago and he is still very stressed... i will tell you in a few days







!


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## redbellyman21 (Jun 27, 2004)

nice pickup man! always good when the hand that imported it, is george or another well known guy! sweet pickup


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

These fish has never been exported from Venezuela (remember i live in Venezuela) and this is the first time ever it's been kept captive by a P-Fury member







!


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

hey man, this is DEFINITLY not an elongatus in this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cESGDLIMQWc...ted&search=

I think its an irritans?


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Dawgz said:


> hey man, this is DEFINITLY not an elongatus in this vid
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cESGDLIMQWc...ted&search=
> 
> I think its an irritans?


Yeap, you're right. The fish on that video is a big S. irritans... in fact i got that fish from "Mikofish" (the guys that posted that video)







!


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

hmmmm looks like irritans to me also dawgs,


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

bc_buddah said:


> wow , new p discovered? or hybread? didnt read . .


It was discovered by Machado-Allison, A., W. L. Fink H. López Rojas and R. Rodenas in 1993 but has never been exported from Venezuela and never been kept captive by any P-Fury member before







!


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## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

looks great man.


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

awsome fish man ur a lucky SOB


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## redrum781 (Apr 10, 2006)

give us some info on this guy
great fish btw


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

A better pic of the same fish from OPEFE ( http://www.opefe.com/neveriensis.html ):

View attachment 127229




redrum781 said:


> give us some info on this guy
> great fish btw


I got it today so it's very stressed now... i will keep you updated







!


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## HumanBurger (Jan 11, 2006)

wow man... cant wait to see more pics!!!

great to see him in good hands...
cheers
jones


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## chomp chomp (Oct 28, 2003)

sweet looking fish, nice pic up Hannibal


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## redrum781 (Apr 10, 2006)

i meant more like how big max....etc
never heard anything about this species


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> hey man, this is DEFINITLY not an elongatus in this vid
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cESGDLIMQWc...ted&search=
> 
> I think its an irritans?


Yeap, you're right. The fish on that video is a big S. irritans... in fact i got that fish from "Mikofish" (the guys that posted that video)







!
[/quote]

ahhh u baught my fckn irritans arghhhhh haha, i just saw the pic in ur recent thread...its a nice fish man, i hope George brings back somthing like that....


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## the_skdster (Aug 15, 2006)

Wow.
Well, umm, what else is there to say? You lucky bastard?


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## J-Lo (Feb 2, 2006)

$100 bucks an inch well worth it WOW


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

No offense to you Daniel, but im not convinced that you have a neveriensis on your hands. Talk a look at the photo on opefe. Your fish has a very very fine spotting pattern while the holotype has very sparse large spotting. The holotype also has a hooked anal fin where as yours does not. Now the anal fin really means nothing since yours had its nipped and is now growing back. I could grow back with the hooked fin, who knows. The spotting is just off to me. Who knows tho, im just a hobbyist. Id say ask Frank, but hes on "vacation".



> Serrasalmus neveriensis is a 1993 discovery and little on record concerning it. It strongly resembles S. medinai and is externally separated by the number of spots on the body which is less than on S. medinai.


After reading the text on Franks site, apparently he already knows about it and I guess agrees thats its a neveriensis. Who knows, something just doesnt seem right. Either way you have a beautiful serra on your hands.


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## nswhite (Mar 23, 2005)

Wow thats pretty sweet. I wish I could get some off the p's you have you want to send me a few or know of some body you can hook me up with that might send me one it woukd be great if you could. LOL.


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## DC2RJUN (Aug 31, 2004)

Great pick up Hannabal , I'd like to see more pictures


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> No offense to you Daniel, but im not convinced that you have a neveriensis on your hands. Talk a look at the photo on opefe. Your fish has a very very fine spotting pattern while the holotype has very sparse large spotting. The holotype also has a hooked anal fin where as yours does not. Now the anal fin really means nothing since yours had its nipped and is now growing back. I could grow back with the hooked fin, who knows. The spotting is just off to me. Who knows tho, im just a hobbyist. Id say ask Frank, but hes on "vacation".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, you should keep in mind the guys that collected the fish (a Venezuelan exporter and George Fear from Shark Aquarium who was present, both reputable persons) claim it was collected at "Río Neverí" (Neverí River) where S. neveriensis is present and S. medinai is not.

I also sent a pics of my fish and the "youtube" video to Prof. Antonio Machado-Allison (one of the cientists that discovered this species back to 1993 and a well known piranha expert) and he said my fish is S. neveriensis because it has a deeper body (dorsoventrally) than S. medinai, a more yellow coloration (instead a more orange coloration more common on S. medinai). He also said the spotting can vary depending on the specimen and other factors. This and the confirmed collection point (he said) makes this fish a true S. neveriensis









... i have to say both (Frank and me) had the same concerns you have about the spotting pattern the first time we saw this fish (Frank received the fish pics and video) but once we confirmed the collection point and received the mail from Prof. Machado-Allison we had no doubt it's a true S. neveriensis







!


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

hey HANNIBAL, how much would one of those bad boys go for in a lfs????????????????


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

dezboy said:


> hey HANNIBAL, how much would one of those bad boys go for in a lfs????????????????


Well you won't find this fish in a LFS







... anyway i paid for him like $150-160 (the same i paid for my Pristobrycon maculipinnis) so most likely if George (Shark Aquarium) or Pedro (Aqua Scape) or any other ever import it to USA they will sell it for the same price of P. maculipinnis $400-500







!


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

wooooowwww, thats a expensive fish, but then again it is one of the rarest P's around


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

redrum781 said:


> i meant more like how big max....etc
> never heard anything about this species


Sadly there is not so much info about this species... anyway you should read this: http://www.opefe.com/neveriensis.html


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## eiji (Sep 16, 2006)

how many more of P's species are you going to collect sir?? 
that fish is sweet...


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

fish lover said:


> how many more of P's species are you going to collect sir??
> that fish is sweet...


Well i just need S. altuvei and a geographical variant of S. elongatus to complete my "Venezuelan Piranha Collection" since S. gouldingi and S. nalseni are impossible to find in the local market (Gouldingi is found close to Brazil, Nalseni is found in an isolated river) and Pristobrycon calmoni and Pristobrycon careospinus are very very very rare so they are not in my "list"







.

Perhaps in the future i'll get Serrasalmus geryi and Pygocentrus piraya to complete my piranha collection


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## eiji (Sep 16, 2006)

so i guess you have a room full of aquariums?? that would be some hella of a room...


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Vurry nice. everytime you post i become more jelious of the aquatic oppertunities afforded you by your location.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

fish lover said:


> Vurry nice. everytime you post i become more jelious of the aquatic oppertunities afforded you by your location.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

hey hannibal can i come and live with you please, ill build and extemsion for my aquariums and then go get ome P's............hahahahhahahaha


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

dezboy said:


> hey hannibal can i come and live with you please, ill build and extemsion for my aquariums and then go get ome P's............hahahahhahahaha










... sorry you can't live with me but if you ever come to Venezuela we can go fishing together


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

sounds good to me, id rather fish for P's than fish for rainbow gtrout over here in england...............


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## DC2RJUN (Aug 31, 2004)

Would you have to use oversized hooks so they wont snap the line?


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

^^^just a wire trace.


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## redrum781 (Apr 10, 2006)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> i meant more like how big max....etc
> never heard anything about this species


Sadly there is not so much info about this species... anyway you should read this: http://www.opefe.com/neveriensis.html









[/quote]
good but short read
looks like u are in for an adventure


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Wow man you are so effin lucky. Wish i lived where you were. How do u plan on decorating his tank(planted, bare..etc? WHat size tank do u have him in? Cant wait so see some new pics


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

THADON said:


> Wow man you are so effin lucky. Wish i lived where you were. How do u plan on decorating his tank(planted, bare..etc? WHat size tank do u have him in? Cant wait so see some new pics


He is in a 55g bare tank now... eventually i will add some gravel, driftwood and a tank background







!


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I am very interested to see how different this species is from medinai. I understand it is from a river that is cut off from medinai...but the resemblance is amazing....I wonder how different they actually are.

Very nice fish Daniel.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I am very interested to see how different this species is from medinai. I understand it is from a river that is cut off from medinai...but the resemblance is amazing....I wonder how different they actually are.
> 
> Very nice fish Daniel.


Yeap they look almost the same... according to Dr. Machado-Allison there are a few subtle differences on adipose fin (bigger on S. neveriensis), fish snout (longer on S. neveriensis), body spotting (fewer spots on S. neveriensis in most cases). Dr. Machado also said spotting can vary depending on the specimen and other factors but S. neveriensis has a deeper body (dorsoventrally) than S. medinai and a more yellow coloration (instead the orange coloration common on S. medinai)... finally the collection point is the key to tell them apart since S. medinai is not present where S. neveriensis is located (Neverí river, Tuy river, Guapo river, Represa Lagartijo and others)...







!

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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Very nice find Daniel. Good luck w/ him.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

about time someone whent all pokemon around here.

very interesting D. always nice seing a "new" P. Keep us posted.


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## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> according to Dr. Machado-Allison there are a few subtle differences on adipose fin (bigger on S. neveriensis), fish snout (longer on S. neveriensis), body spotting (fewer spots on S. neveriensis in most cases). Dr. Machado also said spotting can vary depending on the specimen and other factors but S. neveriensis has a deeper body (dorsoventrally) than S. medinai and a more yellow coloration (instead the orange coloration common on S. medinai)... finally the collection point is the key to tell them apart since S. medinai is not present where S. neveriensis is located (Neverí river, Tuy river, Guapo river, Represa Lagartijo and others)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wouldnt all that just make it a variant and not a different species entirely?


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

isnt a varient from the same water though........................ie same river and territory......................im not sure??


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Very nice! Congrats on the fish Hannibal!


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## Piranha Tank (Mar 22, 2006)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> This is my new Serrasalmus neveriensis. According to the venezuelan exporter it was collected in the Río Neveri (Neverí river). George Fear (from SharkAquarium) was present when this fish (and i mean this very same fish) was collected...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hannibal
nice new speciemen good job keep it 
shabbir


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

NJKILLSYOU said:


> wouldnt all that just make it a variant and not a different species entirely?


I am sure there are other factors that make it an independent species then just the superficial differences and the collection point....otherwise we would have a ton of different species we now call rhombeus.

I understand the value of collection point and am not disputing the ID...I am just curious how close the relationship is between this fish and medinai...and exactly how deeply that relationship has been studied.


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## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

i just figured there would have to be skeletal/DNA differences to claim it as an independent species.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

so new or variation other way


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## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

yea it is an awsome looking fish no doubt about that.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

:nod:


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> wouldnt all that just make it a variant and not a different species entirely?


I am sure there are other factors that make it an independent species then just the superficial differences and the collection point....otherwise we would have a ton of different species we now call rhombeus.

I understand the value of collection point and am not disputing the ID...*I am just curious how close the relationship is between this fish and medinai...and exactly how deeply that relationship has been studied.*[/quote]

I just visited Dr. Machado-Allison this morning and he gave me a paper "Serrasalmus neveriensis a new species of piranha of Venezuela and redescription of Serrasalmus medinai, Ramirez, 1965" where he and William Fink (Museum of Zoology University of Michigan), Hector López Rojas and Rosa Rodenas (Museum of Biology. Tropical Zoology Institute of Venezuela) discuss this 2 species... i will read it and post the most important info here...









... i'm also writing a "Visiting Dr. Machado-Allison. A Venezuelan Piranha Expert" article for OPEFE with lots of pics of his lab, library, museum of biology, the Venezuelan piranha species (paratypes, holotypes...) and some comments regarding a new venezuelan Serrasalmus species yet to be described...


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## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

sounds good man, keep it up.


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## moron (May 26, 2006)

so.......Is it aggressive


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## NeXuS (Aug 16, 2006)

great fish.


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## Dezboy (Apr 2, 2006)

cooool, loking forward to hereing more news hannibal.............


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