# My Black Cariba!



## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Hey guys thought this was something interesting to show you, remember my purple hued cariba from 2 months ago when I posted the pics? Now after 2 months he has turned from purple to black making his cariba spot almost invisable. Heres some comparison pics of him and another cariba which he chills with all the time.








2months ago, purple hued cariba chilling with his buddy








2month later, current date: June. 28th, 2011. purple hued cariba but now he is black also chilling with the same cariba from 2 months ago. Also note his funky shaped serra head








Black cariba on a plate, better look at how dark he is

Frank should be showing up soon lol.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

That's some good growth!


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## Restricted- (Aug 21, 2008)

Dark piranhas always look nice!


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks guys, Im not quite sure why he turned from purple to black. The other cariba got darker since I added black sand into their tank but none of them is darker than this one. Strange thing is only his fins are red, he hasnt developed a orange belly yet like the others. Even the smallest cariba has a orange belly already, do you guys think he will turn completely black like that jet black pygocentrus on Monsterfishkeepers.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Sylar_92 said:


> Hey guys thought this was something interesting to show you, remember my purple hued cariba from 2 months ago when I posted the pics? Now after 2 months he has turned from purple to black making his cariba spot almost invisable. Heres some comparison pics of him and another cariba which he chills with all the time.
> 
> View attachment 203397
> 
> ...


Read it and saw it. Interesting as I told you.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Weird, but interesting fish


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Crossbred. I like it!


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

that is some amazing growth if i knew they would of grown that fast i would of gotten the 5 from you. what size r they now? that looks more than n inch a month...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

BRUNER247 said:


> Weird, but interesting fish


It is. But not as weird as you think. More on this later.


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

....thanks for sharing!...


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

lol Bruner, Cross bred suggestion is funny but its unrealistic though. Im not sure why he looks the way he does but I guess in time we'll find out. Im guess maybe it was born in a different region thus explaining its odd appearence like the fact that the fish is really dark, has red fins instead of orange ones, has a absence of a orange belly at its current size and its concave head. These features could also be explained by the fish its self being deformed, so it could be a matter of time before the others pick him out of the shoal but as of the moment he's the shoal leader and alpha.



Co. Caines said:


> that is some amazing growth if i knew they would of grown that fast i would of gotten the 5 from you. what size r they now? that looks more than n inch a month...


50gallon bowfront I believe, when I first got the group of 10 they were in my 30gallon but they quickly grew and they killed off the 2 smallest cariba of their shoal. Nows there 8 cariba in the 50gallon. All of which are in between the sizes of 1"-2".


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

i had a black one too, rest of the cariba are all silver except this one


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

resembles an RBP because of how the spot's faded in...


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

jp80911 said:


> i had a black one too, rest of the cariba are all silver except this one


Thats pretty sick man, cool to see more of these dark coloured pygos. I wonder if mine will keep its purple shine once it turns into a adult.


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

I think all mine have purple shine when out of water, at least I saw all my wild reds have it when I moved them from the bag to the tank.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Under the Fink revision of 1993 Genus Pygocentrus, he mentions adults turn dark to black.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

hastatus said:


> I think all mine have purple shine when out of water, at least I saw all my wild reds have it when I moved them from the bag to the tank.


Only my dark one has a purple shine to it, both in and out of water. I wonder what other different colour pygos there are.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Sylar_92 said:


> I think all mine have purple shine when out of water, at least I saw all my wild reds have it when I moved them from the bag to the tank.


Only my dark one has a purple shine to it, both in and out of water. I wonder what other different colour pygos there are.
[/quote]
It could be something as simple as the water it came from. Exported fish are usually mixed bags of fish. In Lima, Peru, they have a tendancy to get things mixed up. Might be your cariba could have originated from a different water or out of Columbia where some of the water mixes. Hard to know or say for now.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

i think it's just the black substrate


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

primetime3wise said:


> i think it's just the black substrate


If that were true and it is in some circumstances (such as S rhombeus), then all the cariba would be as dark.


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## balluupnetme (Oct 23, 2006)

jp80911 said:


> i had a black one too, rest of the cariba are all silver except this one


Dark pygos are beautiful


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

i thought of that...gimme a break it was worth a try









i will say that when i had several s. maculatus, i used black gravel and they also got much darker...from day 1.


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

hastatus said:


> Under the Fink revision of 1993 Genus Pygocentrus, he mentions adults turn dark to black.


that's what I was thinking but mine were 6-7 months old when the picture was taken. remember it was around 3-4 months old when it started to get dark.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

jp80911 said:


> Under the Fink revision of 1993 Genus Pygocentrus, he mentions adults turn dark to black.


that's what I was thinking but mine were 6-7 months old when the picture was taken. remember it was around 3-4 months old when it started to get dark.
[/quote]
I know. Which is why I wrote and said be patient. Should have an answer for you soon.


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## jp80911 (Apr 3, 2008)

hastatus said:


> Under the Fink revision of 1993 Genus Pygocentrus, he mentions adults turn dark to black.


that's what I was thinking but mine were 6-7 months old when the picture was taken. remember it was around 3-4 months old when it started to get dark.
[/quote]
I know. Which is why I wrote and said be patient. Should have an answer for you soon.








[/quote]


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## Genesis8 (Sep 11, 2009)

Maybe he wants to breed. J/k. Nice Caribe though.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

curious case of benjamin buttons???


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## rhom45i (Aug 16, 2010)

maybe a s.nigricans? http://www.opefe.com/nigricans.html


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

rhom45i said:


> maybe a s.nigricans? http://www.opefe.com/nigricans.html


Wrong country.


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## rhom45i (Aug 16, 2010)

hastatus said:


> maybe a s.nigricans? http://www.opefe.com/nigricans.html


Wrong country.
[/quote]
some cariba(and piraya also) are attained from belem, brazil so it could still be a possiblity


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

rhom45i said:


> maybe a s.nigricans? http://www.opefe.com/nigricans.html


Wrong country.
[/quote]
some cariba(and piraya also) are attained from belem, brazil so it could still be a possiblity
[/quote]
Mixed shipment maybe. Transplanted maybe. Doesn't make it native.


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## rhom45i (Aug 16, 2010)

well yeah i know, just throwin out possibilities. that piranha sure is nice one though. I'd like to see what it looks like when older.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

rhom45i said:


> maybe a s.nigricans? http://www.opefe.com/nigricans.html


S.nigricans is a doubtful species.... probably synonym to S.maculatus or S.spilpleura.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

memento said:


> maybe a s.nigricans? http://www.opefe.com/nigricans.html


S.nigricans is a doubtful species.... probably synonym to S.maculatus or S.spilpleura.
[/quote]
Why state the obvious. I liked the idea of P. cariba being S. nigricans


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

Here are my three adult cariba. The two are always darker than the third. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics. The difference is much more apparent in person.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

welsher7 said:


> Here are my three adult cariba. The two are always darker than the third. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics. The difference is much more apparent in person.


My question to you. Did you get these as juvenile and grow them out? Was there any coloration distinctiveness?


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## welsher7 (Jul 29, 2005)

I bought these three off a member here, primetimewise. He had them for a couple years before i bought them. I think he bought them at a sub adult stage. I have had them for about 3 months or so. They have always had the color difference. Maybe primetime can tell us how they looked when he had them.


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## KO78 (Jun 12, 2011)

looks great, never seen a black one like that!


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Alright here are some closer flank shots of my juvenile black cariba. I couldnt really get him to stay perfectly still so I took a few pics. his cariba spot is starting to grow very big and is starting to spread on his body, also he has a slightly curved up snout and his head is more concaved like a serrasalmus compared to my other cariba.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Sylar_92 said:


> Alright here are some closer flank shots of my juvenile black cariba. I couldnt really get him to stay perfectly still so I took a few pics. his cariba spot is starting to grow very big and is starting to spread on his body, also he has a slightly curved up snout and his head is more concaved like a serrasalmus compared to my other cariba.


I can see why it and S.medinai look similar.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

I'd slap his ass in solitary confinement. Gotta love that bulldawg face. Where you score that badboy? AS? SA? Wish few mine looked like that.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

BRUNER247 said:


> I'd slap his ass in solitary confinement. Gotta love that bulldawg face. Where you score that badboy? AS? SA? Wish few mine looked like that.


LOL, thanks Bruner. I got him a few months back from Oliver of Belowwater the Ottawa suppier during cariba season. raised him from the size of a quater and enjoyed every moment of it.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Looks like the snouts getting more pronounced as he gets bigger. First pics when he was smaller he had pygo face.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

If there is yellow on the orbit (which you stated in pm it was yellowish-amber) then what you have is a very rare species, S. medinai. Juveniles are difficult to distinguish from P. cariba that even systematists that study piranhas have difficulty in separating the juveniles from the actual cariba. The only hint is the eye color. P. cariba is uniformly silver. I thought about this orbit feature after the fact and did some rechecking on the description. It really is a difficult species to pick out.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Its pretty cool to hear he's a S.medinai, at first I thought he was deformed because he lacked a orange belly and he had a concave head but the confirmation of a S.medinai is great to hear. Time to get him a separte tank, I also noticed his snout became more pronouced since the first time I got him. How long do you guys think he can stay in a 35gallon? He's nearly 2 inches as of today.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

It doesn't look like the S. medinai i had but i agree a yellowish orbit points medinai... better pics may help though


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

S.medinai crossed my mind for a while, but shouldn't there be an obvious black band at the end of the anal fin like in Ivan's video ?


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

I see what you mean, He use to have it at the front of the anal fin like maculatus does but I havent seen it at the end of the anal fin yet though. The anal fin was torn nipped at a few days ago and just grew back so I'll keep you guys updated if it does show up .


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

memento said:


> S.medinai crossed my mind for a while, but shouldn't there be an obvious black band at the end of the anal fin like in Ivan's video ?


Ivan and I discussed this tonight. At first I wasn't convinced based on his video and photos. Went back and re-read the description. Noted the difficulty in separating juvenile cariba and medinai. Then the eye color was mentioned in being yellow. A feature that cariba does not have. Everything about this fish matches. Spotting is variable in any species. Just one feature of many.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

hastatus said:


> Ivan and I discussed this tonight. At first I wasn't convinced based on his video and photos. Went back and re-read the description. Noted the difficulty in separating juvenile cariba and medinai. Then the eye color was mentioned in being yellow. A feature that cariba does not have. Everything about this fish matches. Spotting is variable in any species. Just one feature of many.


I assume it could be nipped off as well ?
It certainly matches and looks like the drawing in Ramirez' description...

When S.medinai crossed my mind in this topic I considered it a little of "wanting to see what's on my mind" if you know what I mean. Too much of a coïncidence that just after reading the descriptions a rare species like that would show up









Great to see some new pictures of this species and I have to agree in coming to understand why it is that hard to differentiate them from P.cariba !

@Sylar : are you planning on putting it apart from the caribas ? Would be a shame to loose such a rare species to cannibalism !


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

memento said:


> @Sylar : are you planning on putting it apart from the caribas ? Would be a shame to loose such a rare species to cannibalism !


Yeah, Im actually going to load it into spare 10gallon since thats all I have at the moment but Iam planning to get a 35gallon for him as soon as possible. Iam gunna have to be on high alert after I move the medinai into a separate tank, Since the rate of cannabalism will increase in the cariba once the cariba try establishing a new alpha.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Keep in mind, this is a best guess on the ID of that fish. TO know for absolute certain (and I forgot this), the upper plate has boney projections that resemble teeth. These are called ectopterygoid teeth. Ivan reminded me about it this morning. That would, without a doubt make this fish a Serrasalmus. And truthfully, no way to check that out without completely stressing out your fish or killing it. Just keep documenting its growth. That's more important at this time.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Wow nice score Sylar


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

hastatus said:


> Wow nice score Sylar


LOL, yeah it is. At first I just thought he was deformed but now with a confirmation of his ID I feel better.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> It doesn't look like the S. medinai i had but i agree a yellowish orbit points medinai... better pics may help though


I know its a tricky ID. When I looked at your photos, the photos and video by Ivan. His comments on how much juveniles look like cariba. Then reading the description and seeing Fink comments on the same issue of appearance. Yes it can be very uncertain. That's why the description is what one follows not a gut feeling. In regards to this fish its met 3 of 5 points putting it as medinai more than cariba.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

wow im really impressed with the growth
those fish are growing into beasts, very nice dark coloration on them too.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Any new pics of this fish Sylar ?
Still curious for it


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## locust (Aug 2, 2005)

Interesting that this fish has so far grown at the same rate as the cariba, wonder if it will slow down being seperated from them.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Lost 75% of his fish. I remember he say something bout it. But can't find it now n can't remember if it died or was ok. Might of been in his status


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## Red Sox Fanatic (Jun 13, 2011)

What a shame.


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