# Nattereri or piraya?



## click (Mar 19, 2007)

Hi, for me are nattereri but for a friend of mine is piraya. What kind of pygo are they?

Hastatus have see the first pic and tell me that they are highed colored nattereri. For you?


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## Puddjuice (Mar 11, 2004)

If Frank said they are high colored Red Bellies than he most likely correct. Well not most likely....he is


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)

IMO those are pirayas....look the anal fin in the first pic ( turns from red into orange) and they totally donot have black spots on they're body, and they're only 4,5 inches... oh, colors turns into blue on the top.... 
Tommy


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## click (Mar 19, 2007)

Are you sure that they aren't piraya?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

it's kinda hard to tell from those pics, but pirayas have a rayed adipose fin, which differentiates them from red bellies. either get a close up of the adipose fin or check for yourself. if frank says they're reds, i'm sure they're reds. you can still post the pics tho...


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## click (Mar 19, 2007)

Frank,can you reply? Thanks a lot


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

ok every body is actully blind here i had no idea wow THEY ARE ORANGE VARIENT PIRAYA ILL PUT 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 DOLLARS ON IT

EVERY BOD YELSE GET SOME GLASSES AND STOP CONFUSING PEOPLE


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i don't think anyone has said anything definitive, just that the original poster said that frank had supposedly told him they were reds, i think everyone had just commented on that.


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm know expert but I say Piraya.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

if frank said it was a red ( i dought it) i wont go on opefe ever again its a orange varient piraya ill be right back with a pic of my old orange piraya big red

here it is big red my old orange varient piraya


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i think it looks like a piraya too, but *if *frank really did say that it's a red i'd like to hear his reasoning, cuz he knows his sh*t.


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

joedizzlempls said:


> i think it looks like a piraya too, but *if *frank really did say that it's a red i'd like to hear his reasoning, cuz he knows his sh*t.


frank obivisly didnot see the picks cause it is clear as day look at the flames reds super reds dont have flames ever


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)

some super reds could have a flame but not all of them... the only strange thing it's that all of them in the second pic have just on flame in the same point...
Tommy


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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

PygoLover said:


> some super reds could have a flame but not all of them... the only strange thing it's that all of them in the second pic have just on flame in the same point...
> Tommy


if you inlarge the second pic youll see that the far back ones has 2 flames right next to each other and every ones flames are different yes close to the same spot if thats a red im a elephant dresssed as a man

guys they are piraya if they arent they are a new type of piranha


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i think the only thing that's in question is whether or not frank actually saw these pictures and said that they were reds


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Somebody explain to me please what the difference is between a regular and a "rayed" adipose fin. 
I'm pretty sure common sence is the way to go here but just want to be sure.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

check out opefe and go to the page on pirayas, there is a nice close-up shot that shows the difference


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## MiGsTeR (Jan 19, 2008)

Looks like a piraya to me... If it is a Natt.. Then it is a REDBELLY..


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## Puddjuice (Mar 11, 2004)

I thought they were piraya when I saw them. Maybe he was mistaken on what Frank initially said. All I know is Frank is much more knowledged than I or any of you and I will accept his ID if he says they are high colored reds.
\


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

There must be some kind of mix up here because those look like pirayas at least in these pics.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Those are very nice Natts.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

pirayaman, your visits to OPEFE will be missed.

The fish in all photos show orange below the lateral line with 1 exception where there is a blemish above the humeral region in some specimens. That is consistent with highly colored P. nattereri, not necessarily P. piraya.

P. piraya consistently have yellow-orange or red flames that extend above the lateral line on adults. A few juveniles also show the flames above the midbody above the lateral line. Those fish in the photos do not show that consistency. So my opinion rests with that the fish are very likely P. nattereri.

These are young fish. I would suggest reposting in a few months to see if any further changes occur. I'm just not fully convinced those are piraya as some P. nattereri from Rio Araguaia look like piraya.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i also thought that they looked like pirayas, but if i was wrong, that was exactly the type of explanation i was looking for. i have seen individual natts with orange above the lateral line, but that is by far the largest group that i have seen that show the trait. thanks for the info frank


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)

other 2 more pics.... what do u guys think?

for me, they are pirayas 100%

but i'm waiting to be sure in order to buy them


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## piranhaforum.org (Aug 18, 2007)

PygoLover said:


> other 2 more pics.... what do u guys think?
> 
> for me, they are pirayas 100%
> 
> ...


Piraya 100% !!


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)




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## pirayaman (Nov 3, 2007)

they look like pirayas still well in the 2 middle pics of the second bunch

frank you meen to tell me that there is reds that look like that out there can you tell me were to get some cause that is deff something i wouldnt mind keeping for sure beautiful fish

i big look at pictures of peoples fish for 5 years now i ve never seen a red that looks like a piraya ever 
\

if they are reds frank who sells them cause i want like 20 of them or do you know a location that they come from so ican specificly as george for them thanks


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## bigshawn (Dec 29, 2005)

hastatus said:


> pirayaman, your visits to OPEFE will be missed.
> 
> The fish in all photos show orange below the lateral line with 1 exception where there is a blemish above the humeral region in some specimens. That is consistent with highly colored P. nattereri, not necessarily P. piraya.
> 
> ...


You don't say, well goes to show what I know, I had a bet that you would say Piraya







......


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)

oh, do not forget...they have been introduced just yesterday, after a long way jorney, and they're kept in shadow, without light... after just 10 min of dayligh (from windows) they take this colors, just in order to take pictures... i gess they'r still stressed out, and they would be much colored after a couple hours f neon's light
Tommy


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## Puddjuice (Mar 11, 2004)

lol you seem to have your mind set on piraya even though you have been answered by one of the most respected opinions around.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The photos just presented are far better. Those are indeed young P. piraya.



> frank you meen to tell me that there is reds that look like that out there can you tell me were to get some cause that is deff something i wouldnt mind keeping for sure beautiful fish


Already told you one location; rio Araguaia. Those are rarely brought in, but they are one of the most beautiful P. nattereri in my opinion.


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)

just cause first 2 pics where not clear and even if i was saying they were pirayas i've noticed that what Mr Magallanes said was correct and those fishes where all similar, so i was not so sure...
but things changed after i recived those other pics. now i'm pretty sure they're pirayas, but i would like to know Mr. Magallanes's opinion, if had changed. if not, i would like to know what he think... he's one of the most expert person and he knows his work








i'm observing and studing piranhas for a while now, but my experience it's nothing compare to his one.








Tommaso


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## danilo72 (Feb 22, 2006)

this is piraya or super red ?


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## PygoLover (Mar 22, 2007)

hastatus said:


> The photos just presented are far better. Those are indeed young P. piraya.


Thank you Sir.








Tommaso


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Those would definitly pass for pirayas.

In my opionion, they LOOK like piraya, but id need more pics to be confident on it.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

PygoLover said:


> View attachment 163727
> 
> View attachment 163726


piraya. but again, depends on collection point.


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

At what stage could you distinguish them from their adipose fin or were Meyers, Schulte, and Pinkgune talking about folklore?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

shanker said:


> At what stage could you distinguish them from their adipose fin or were Meyers, Schulte, and Pinkgune talking about folklore?


i think after about 9"


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Doktordet said:


> View attachment 163727
> 
> View attachment 163726


piraya. but again, depends on collection point.
[/quote]

the first pic u quoted, i believe is 100% Piraya. Check out the purple Hue adding to my conclusion.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

Dawgz said:


> View attachment 163727
> 
> View attachment 163726


piraya. but again, depends on collection point.
[/quote]

the first pic u quoted, i believe is 100% Piraya. Check out the purple Hue adding to my conclusion.
[/quote]
You can see the purple hue on the pirayas in the first pics at the beginning of the thread ass well.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

where did he get these piranhas?


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