# Undescribed species?



## FrankP (Apr 25, 2004)

Hallo,

This Piranha-species arrived in Switzerland last week.
And some of you have seen my earlier topic about 7 species from Bolivia and
one of them was a undescribed species, identified by Mr. Jegu.

The first picture is the one earlier identified as undescribed and the second picture
is the one wich came in this week.
So my question is; are they the same species?
They are both caught in Bolivia.

Thanks in advance.


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## Ironhead (Nov 25, 2007)

they look the same,..white rhom?


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Got me?
They def. look like the same fish.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

they do look somewhat similar. the top fish looks a bit like s.marginatus,which, if it came from bolivia it can NOT be.

post a few more pics of a full side shot, it would make it a lot easier


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> the top fish looks a bit like s.marginatus,which, if it came from bolivia it can NOT be.


And why not? Just because its not documented there, does't mean its not there. S. marginatus is in Bolivia.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

Is Frank back now?
Good to see you here.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

hastatus said:


> > the top fish looks a bit like s.marginatus,which, if it came from bolivia it can NOT be.
> 
> 
> And why not? Just because its not documented there, does't mean its not there. S. marginatus is in Bolivia.


first thing i did when i looked at the pic was click on opefe and check distribution for marginatus, bolivia isn't listed in the species information page, but on the page that lists countrys and what species are found there i did see marginatus in bolivia, my bad sorry i didn't read through everything before putting in my 2 cents


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## FrankP (Apr 25, 2004)

Thank you all for your input!








So these 2 fish are the same species i guess.
Hopefully i can get one of those within a month or so.Then I 'll post some
more pics of this Serra-species.
Here are a few more (bad quality) pics of the one recently caught in Bolivia.
Thanks for now.









I forgot one pic;


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## orhan dağcı (Jun 29, 2006)

This is very beautiful Serrasalmus Marginatus.Marginatus is one of my favorites.
ORHAN


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

orhan dağcı said:


> This is very beautiful Serrasalmus Marginatus.


I agree, marginatus.


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

NOt sure about Marginatus. Kinda Iffy.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Seems to be a mag or a irritan.


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## italianstylzzz (Sep 25, 2008)

Marginatus ... not an irritan for sure, doesnt have the somewhat elongated body which rules out that fish. But again i could be wrong.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

its marginatus, its just skinny and a bit beat up from importing


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## italianstylzzz (Sep 25, 2008)

after looking at this, and looking at other species.... this appears to be, a Serrasalmus altispinis. hence why very rhombeus looking.


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## JustJoshinYa (Mar 25, 2006)

hard to see the spines so its hard to make that call and call it an altispinis but it very well could be once it heals up more and settles in we should be able to tell a little more about it.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

it would also help if the fish in question didn't come from bolivia, altipinis is from brazil, the uatuma river system which is in northern brazil, about 500 miles from bolivia. the locality is wrong, not to mention the fact that you can see any of the charictoristics on this fish that says altipinis (belly serra, and tail)but better pics would be helpful to make a more possative id


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## Pterogho (Feb 8, 2004)

I know I haven't been one of the most faithful user during the last couple of years, but I will still allow myself to add to the confusion.

I have a "cf. marginatus" from southern Brazil aka northern Rio Paranà Basin, that resembles _S. altispinis_ all too well by it's coloration, but by the spotting, tail-marking and general morphometrics it fits all right within the description of _S. marginatus_. Only the red eye is confusing to me.

So for now I suppose anything is possible in genus Serrasalmus.

But words stand poorly alone in these matters, so here are some graphics.

These pics show it at about two inches.



















These two show it at about 4 inches four weeks ago.



















By these two last pictures it appears somewhat short in the body, not semi-elongated as expected in _S. marginatus_, but this was apparently just it's way of adding to the ontogenetic confusion, it is already "stretching" out again.


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## Yanfloist (Oct 1, 2007)

wow,nice fish...it really changed.


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