# 40 Gal Brdr



## AKSkirmish

Mom wants something other than fish for once
I have a 40 brdr I can use

I'm looking for something that easy in care and something that isn't an eye sore.

Would also need to know what it would take for care as well(lighting,heating,soil,etc,etc)

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

Is she OK with snakes?


----------



## Bawb2u

Get a razorback musk turtle. Fully aquatic, don't bask and a 40 breeder will do for life. You can keep some fish with it in a naturalistic setup.


----------



## AKSkirmish

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> Get a razorback musk turtle. Fully aquatic, don't bask and a 40 breeder will do for life. You can keep some fish with it in a naturalistic setup.


I will have to google one here in a bit...


----------



## bob351

Musk turtles need to bask... along with snappers, they need uvb lighting and heat.


----------



## bob351

They are also not the best swimmers so a shallower tank is better. You can still go natural but what i would do is have a real land area with live plants and all and real aquatic plants and make a mini swamp in your breeder.


----------



## Piranha Guru

When I think of easy care, I don't think of aquatic or semi-aquatic turtles.

Geckos, lizards, terrestrial frogs would be better options. I guess frogs or toads with a vivarium type setup could be low maintenance if done right. What does she like?


----------



## AKSkirmish

bob351 said:


> When I think of easy care, I don't think of aquatic or semi-aquatic turtles.
> 
> Geckos, lizards, terrestrial frogs would be better options. I guess frogs or toads with a vivarium type setup could be low maintenance if done right. What does she like?


She has no idea what she likes-Just looking for something new is all....

Whats an easy cared for lizard?

And frog setup-other than poisons

Difference between gecko and a lizard?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

I'd probably go with geckos in that tank, maybe 3 or 4 of these guys...

Crested gecko - Rhacodactylus ciliatus









or

Gargoyle gecko - Rhacodactylus auriculatus









Or a pair of these...

Madagascar day gecko - Phelsuma Madagascariensis


----------



## bob351

all geckos are lizards but not all lizards are geckos...

geckos tend to have pads vs claws... they have a membrane on there eye they lick to clean vs eye lids... tend to have softer skin/scales... all geckos are non venomous and eat bugs only vs some lizards who eat a veggie diet

bunch of stuff really

If your going to get any reptile your going to need uvb for the most part unless they are nocturnal if you want somthing a little more interesting than your average gecko or lizard you can go with an varanus acanthuras monitor lizard (acki monitor)... they stay small are voracious little buggers. Think komodo dragon but mini







You might need to upgrade when it gets older but they are one of my favorite lizards and probably the best monitor lizard for captivity. Nothing holds a candle to monitor lizards IMO and make great display animals. I have some good care sheets if you want.


----------



## AKSkirmish

Gargoyle gecko - Rhacodactylus auriculatus

Me likey....The shots I could get with one them would be insane......

Where to look to order something like this......
What care for one of these Joe?



bob351 said:


> all geckos are lizards but not all lizards are geckos...
> 
> geckos tend to have pads vs claws... they have a membrane on there eye they lick to clean vs eye lids... tend to have softer skin/scales... all geckos are non venomous and eat bugs only vs some lizards who eat a veggie diet
> 
> bunch of stuff really
> 
> If your going to get any reptile your going to need uvb for the most part unless they are nocturnal if you want somthing a little more interesting than your average gecko or lizard you can go with an varanus acanthuras monitor lizard (acki monitor)... they stay small are voracious little buggers. Think komodo dragon but mini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might need to upgrade when it gets older but they are one of my favorite lizards and probably the best monitor lizard for captivity. Nothing holds a candle to monitor lizards IMO and make great display animals. I have some good care sheets if you want.
> 
> View attachment 205222


I likey as well.....
Poisonous though Bob?


----------



## bob351

no poisonous lizards... the gila monster are venomous and nope ackis are not

poisonous would be if you eat em and you die vs they bite you and you die


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

I love gargoyle geckos, probably one of my favorite reptiles. Care is relatively easy, under tank heat can be used to keep the tank temp in the upper 70s and then you can put a UVB bulb on top of the tank (some debate as to whether they actually need this, but doesn't hurt to have it). They eat insects and fruit.

The Kingsnake classifieds are a great place to find reptiles, you'd probably have to ask people if they ship to AK tho...

http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=151


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

I don't think I'd put an ackie in a 40 breeder unless it was just going to be temporary, I'd probably want at least a 75 gallon or similar sized cage.


----------



## Bawb2u

bob351 said:


> monitor lizards IMO and make great display animals. I have some good care sheets if you want.
> 
> View attachment 205222


 As much as I love monitors, (I used to breed rudicollis and dumerilli,) he's looking for something for a 40 breeder and his mom, so I don't really thing ackies are a good recommendation. Personally, I'd rather have green trees in a display.


----------



## bob351

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> Musk turtles need to bask... along with snappers, they need uvb lighting and heat.


They need UVB but razorbacks don't bask. They need calcium in food.

[/quote]

yeah but the uvb rays power drops off considerably the further away from the animal it gets... thats why a basking spot with a florescent bulb literally a few inches above its the best way to get there uvb that they need to process the calcium.


----------



## AKSkirmish

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> I love gargoyle geckos, probably one of my favorite reptiles. Care is relatively easy, under tank heat can be used to keep the tank temp in the upper 70s and then you can put a UVB bulb on top of the tank (some debate as to whether they actually need this, but doesn't hurt to have it). They eat insects and fruit.
> 
> The Kingsnake classifieds are a great place to find reptiles, you'd probably have to ask people if they ship to AK tho...
> 
> http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=151


Haw many can be kept together in my setup Joe.....

I have over 50 tanks in storage guys-I got all aspects of tank upgrade covered if something I choose needs it....

But from the sounds of it-The monitor will have to wait-Turtles=Probably a no go guys....


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

Could probably put 4 or 5, 1 male and 3 or 4 females if you want to breed them or just 4 or 5 females


----------



## bob351

AKSkirmish said:


> I love gargoyle geckos, probably one of my favorite reptiles. Care is relatively easy, under tank heat can be used to keep the tank temp in the upper 70s and then you can put a UVB bulb on top of the tank (some debate as to whether they actually need this, but doesn't hurt to have it). They eat insects and fruit.
> 
> The Kingsnake classifieds are a great place to find reptiles, you'd probably have to ask people if they ship to AK tho...
> 
> http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=151


Haw many can be kept together in my setup Joe.....

*I have over 50 tanks in storage guys-I got all aspects of tank upgrade covered if something I choose needs it....*

But from the sounds of it-The monitor will have to wait-Turtles=Probably a no go guys....
[/quote]
this is why i figured upgrading would be no issue with you ak









IMO breed em ak... its a rewarding part of the hobby bringing new life into it and either watching them grow or selling them off.


----------



## AKSkirmish

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> I love gargoyle geckos, probably one of my favorite reptiles. Care is relatively easy, under tank heat can be used to keep the tank temp in the upper 70s and then you can put a UVB bulb on top of the tank (some debate as to whether they actually need this, but doesn't hurt to have it). They eat insects and fruit.
> 
> The Kingsnake classifieds are a great place to find reptiles, you'd probably have to ask people if they ship to AK tho...
> 
> http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=151


Haw many can be kept together in my setup Joe.....

*I have over 50 tanks in storage guys-I got all aspects of tank upgrade covered if something I choose needs it....*

But from the sounds of it-The monitor will have to wait-Turtles=Probably a no go guys....
[/quote]
this is why i figured upgrading would be no issue with you ak









IMO breed em ak... its a rewarding part of the hobby bringing new life into it and either watching them grow or selling them off.
[/quote]

Is care for one real easy though Bob...My mom will be takeing part care of said tank......
I myself like breeding...Just not whats involved......I dont have the time right now to due so though......


----------



## bob351

the ackies?

They are not the best beginner lizard for someone who has never cared for anything but if you know what your getting into they are fine... they can be aggressive and are quite fast but for the most part tame down just fine if its for you mom i would re consider since i would not want my mom caring for a monitor lizard since she is not prepared to get bit and deal with something like that.

The only maintenance you would need would be spot cleaning, changing water and feeding, then your monthly or bi monthly tear down and full cleaning.

...


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

2 males would probably fight, so it's best to stick to females if you want a group. The prices are kind of all over the place with them, but if you are patient, you should be able to find them for less than $50 each and you could possibly get a quantity discount.


----------



## AKSkirmish

bob351 said:


> 2 males would probably fight, so it's best to stick to females if you want a group. The prices are kind of all over the place with them, but if you are patient, you should be able to find them for less than $50 each and you could possibly get a quantity discount.


$50 a pop isn't bad....Can they be shipped with multiple in one package Joe...Thats what will kill me is the shipping on them......

Do pet stores generally carry these Joe......


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

I've seen them a few times at pet shops that specialize in reptiles, it wouldn't hurt to call around and see if any shops have them or at least could order them for you. When they ship them, they can put them in the same package, they'll usually be separated inside tho. There are some morphs that cost more, but I think the regular ones look great.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

What about a hog island boa? Larger then a ball python though stil not as large as a redtail. I have never had one but they are nice looking snakes.


----------



## Guest

Reading this thread got me thinking about perhaps getting a gecko too. From what I have read, they are best kept separate or they can bite each others tails off?!?!? Also I looked at this website, its Canadian but they ship worldwide http://www.northerngecko.ca/ng-cms/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=31&g2_itemId=27 and I cant find a gecko under $250.

The red crested ones are super pretty


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

Male geckos can be extremely territorial so they shouldn't be housed together, but people keep groups of one male and multiple females or just a bunch of females.

Those are full retail prices, which are going to be really high, the Kingsnake classifieds allow you to buy directly from breeders and you can find some great prices on high quality stock...

http://market.kingsnake.com/


----------



## bob351

ksls said:


> Reading this thread got me thinking about perhaps getting a gecko too. From what I have read, they are best kept separate or they can bite each others tails off?!?!? Also I looked at this website, its Canadian but they ship worldwide http://www.northerngecko.ca/ng-cms/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=31&g2_itemId=27 and I cant find a gecko under $250.
> 
> The red crested ones are super pretty


heres a great site to find geckos (or anything reptile related for that matter) both private and companies list items... just have to sign up to view im pretty sure

its all canadian listings and mostly from the gta... new stuff daily 
http://www.reptilescanada.com/classifieds/


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

I don't know if you guys remember Mettle, but he was a mod on here -- he lives in Canada and I'm pretty sure he breeds crested geckos, might wanna try to get a hold of him.


----------



## bob351

good idea... but i think he was from ottawa so kinda far unless he ships.


----------



## AKSkirmish

Thanks everyone for info on this...I will have a looksy today and see if anyone local has anything to offer...I'll post my results sometime....
Appreciated


----------



## Bawb2u

bob351 said:


> yeah but the uvb rays power drops off considerably the further away from the animal it gets... thats why a basking spot with a florescent bulb literally a few inches above its the best way to get there uvb that they need to process the calcium.


Most turtles UVB requirements are highly overstated. Supplemental D3 and clean hard water with quality food is more important than excessive UVB.


----------



## bob351

Yes and no for some species yes they require a lot less and they will live just fine but form my experience my map turtles had weak florescent uvb for the first 4 years of there life and got around 4" shells stopped growing after a 2 years I thought they were two males and said w.e there done growing... put them outside this summer and they put on at least another 1" if not more fed the same as before with the same filter just outside in the sun in 3 months vs a basking lamp.

But as you said most turtles... maps are avid baskers vs something like a musk turtle that rarely will bask at all. That being said i would rather have the uvb than not even if i know it is unnecessary for any turtle...


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

AKSkirmish said:


> Thanks everyone for info on this...I will have a looksy today and see if anyone local has anything to offer...I'll post my results sometime....
> Appreciated


Definitely keep us posted, I wanna see what you do with a reptile tank


----------



## balluupnetme

If you decide on an amphibian I think the pacman frog is a great choice, they don't require any special UVB lighting, and they may live in tanks as small as 10 gallons for life, just got to keep the tank humid everyday and change water bowl, and do the monthly cleaning and changing of the substrate, cool looking frogs and will eat anything that fits in their mouths and they come in a wide variety of colors

Whether it be reptile or amphibian, kingsnake.com is the place to go to, they've got almost everything you're looking for in the classified section


----------



## AKSkirmish

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> If you decide on an amphibian I think the pacman frog is a great choice, they don't require any special UVB lighting, and they may live in tanks as small as 10 gallons for life, just got to keep the tank humid everyday and change water bowl, and do the monthly cleaning and changing of the substrate, cool looking frogs and will eat anything that fits in their mouths and they come in a wide variety of colors
> 
> Whether it be reptile or amphibian, kingsnake.com is the place to go to, they've got almost everything you're looking for in the classified section


I should already have one-Thanks to a former mod-I never got what was promised....Thankfully he didn't get my money first....Thankfully not a member of site anymore....

I love the looks of Pacmans...Do you happen to know if one can keep multiple in one enclosure though?


----------



## balluupnetme

AKSkirmish said:


> If you decide on an amphibian I think the pacman frog is a great choice, they don't require any special UVB lighting, and they may live in tanks as small as 10 gallons for life, just got to keep the tank humid everyday and change water bowl, and do the monthly cleaning and changing of the substrate, cool looking frogs and will eat anything that fits in their mouths and they come in a wide variety of colors
> 
> Whether it be reptile or amphibian, kingsnake.com is the place to go to, they've got almost everything you're looking for in the classified section


I should already have one-Thanks to a former mod-I never got what was promised....Thankfully he didn't get my money first....Thankfully not a member of site anymore....

I love the looks of Pacmans...Do you happen to know if one can keep multiple in one enclosure though?
[/quote]

Yea pacmans are cool creatures with HUGE appetites







but they are cannibals so you can't house more than 1 together because they'll eat eachother, they'll literally eat anything that fits in their mouths even their own kind


----------



## AKSkirmish

Appreciated...That outs them then....


----------



## balluupnetme

No problem









I haven't experienced it, but I've heard that if you keep them well fed they may co-hab...


----------



## Bawb2u

balluupnetme said:


> No problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't experienced it, but I've heard that if you keep them well fed they may co-hab...


You just end up with one huge one.


----------



## AKSkirmish

Alright guys...
Looks like I got both available locally....The Pacmans and the Garg. Geckos
I cleaned out my 40 gal and have some more work to due on that issue before I'm happy enough to put one or the other in......

I'm leaning towards the Gargs. for now...I am thinking of turning my biocube into a frog tank for the pacman...Still undecided though...


----------



## balluupnetme

Great choices !

good luck and keep us posted !


----------



## AKSkirmish

Thanks...After this weekend-I will get on top of tank and hopefully have something in my tank by mid next week


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

That's good to hear, can't wait to see em


----------



## AKSkirmish

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> That's good to hear, can't wait to see em


Thanks Joe....Appreciate the help

what would be the best substrate for the Geckos?
Whats the best hygrometer to use....I use some high quality digital ones for my humidors...Can I use one of these....

I need to know what nice light system to use as well

Anymore help would be appreciated...


----------



## AKSkirmish

Ooopsss.....Need a heater as well anyone.....whats the best one for a setup like this?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS

These Eco Earth bricks work pretty well and are really cheap, they sell them at most pet shops, so you should be able to find it local, you could even use peat moss or soil if you want.

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Compressed-Expandable-Substrate/dp/B0002AQDZ4

I'm a big fan of Accu Rite thermometers and hygrometers, the ones with the wireless sensors are great, but what you have would probably work...

http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instruments-00611-Thermometer-Hygrometer/dp/B001B35APA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1313866454&sr=8-2

For heat, I like under tank heaters coupled with a rheostat, Zoo Med makes some basic stuff...

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiTemp-Remote-Thermostat/dp/B0002AQD9A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1313866639&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiTherm%C2%AE-Under-Heater/dp/B0002AQCLO/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1313866798&sr=1-1


----------



## bob351

this would be overkill for a single tank but its professional temperature t-stat that allows night time drop and seasonal temp differences and a whole bunch of bells and whistles like alarms if temps get to hot or cold... they also have a humidity controller if you interested.

http://spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

herpstat pro is my favorite and the only one i will use on my rack system for my snakes there is also vivarium electronics that is quite a bit cheaper


----------



## Mettle

You don't need to heat a gargoyle gecko tank unless your room gets VERY cold. I know a breeder in Canada who houses all her Rhacodactylus geckos in her basement, including in the winter, and she does not supplement with additional heat. (The cool period actually is good for them and calms the hormones, stopping breeding.)

I kept and bred 3 different types of Rhacodactylus species including gargoyles. And I never had heat either.

Rhacs also don't need any special uvb lighting.

All this to say, Rhacodactylus species are amazing because they are so easy to care for. Just don't tug on their tails.








They come from a very temperate climate (New Caledonia, check it out. I hopefully will before I move back to North America.)

Gargoyles tend to be a bit more protein heavy than their Crested Gecko cousins, so you'll want a bit more crickets or an appropriate food. I always had great success with the Repashy food. You can buy it online and have it shipped to you. Some people back in Canada got into some other stuff. Not sure how that's working for them. But I know there were some debates on its quality, etc. (Mostly issues amongst breeders in the hobby I think.)

I housed mine on paper towels during non-breeding season. But my gargoyles got full beddings (something soft, like the bed-a-beast bricks or whatever) because the stupid females couldn't seem to find their lay boxes and I kept losing eggs. It was really annoying/tragic.

Having said that, don't keep gargoyle geckos together unless they're full adults. Males will kill each other. Females might be a bit territorial even. They don't seem to be quite as communal as Cresties are. That's just from my personal research and observation.

Anymore questions feel free... I feel I can probably answer them. I was really into Rhacs for a while and had even started my own little breeding operation, as I mentioned, and turned out dozens of babies one year. It was a good time.

Also. A 40 gal breeder is a bit low for Rhacs. I'd probably turn it on its side so it's standing 36" tall opposed to only 15". These are arboreal geckos, keep that in mind.


----------



## AKSkirmish

I appreciate the feedback Mettle-I have a great memory man-I remember you breeding these guys a few years back......My room does geta bit cold.But what is cold to these guys though exactly?

hmmm.I'm not liking you say to not keep multiple....I'm not sure I can get adults right off the bat....I would really like to keep shipping out of the deal atleast for the geckos....

arboreal means what man?-Climbing or something.....I wasn't looking to use anything other than this brdr tank.....Turning it on it's side....How would I keep the little buggers in....


----------



## Mettle

Yes, arboreal means climbing. Basically it means they live in the trees. While I found my gargs did spend a bit more time on the ground than cresties, they still re climbers at heart. (It's not their fault their pudgy little piles of cuteness haha.)

Well, you'd need a lid for it either way otherwise the geckos would get out. When I flipped a 40 breeder (or 20 gal or whatever) on its side the lid simply becomes the front. If you want to use real substrate (not just paper towels like I did) you'd have to build a trough of sorts in the bottom with something to catch and keep the soil/dirt/coconut coir, whatever, inside. Not that hard to do. But it looks slightly less pretty if done poorly.

If you're looking to keep a group of geckos, get some female cresties. There is still never any guarantee however that they will perfectly co-exist.

Keep in mind that all Rhacs are nocturnal so these aren't geckos you are going to see during the day. They will be asleep... Some of mine emerged as early as sundown, but some would not come out until the dead of night when I was off my computer (computer and reptiles shared a room) and away. So it depends on the individual too.

Do you want a display pet? Some of the day geckos are gorgeous. But they are purely display, no handling. (Their skin is sensitive and designed to tear/rip off if a predator grabs them so that can get tricky when it comes to handling for very obvious reasons.) At least you'd have something you'd see though. Can't comment on the size of the tank being appropriate for any particular species mind you. I don't know a ton about day geckos. But you'd have to flip it on its side as well as, again, they're arboreal.

There are some terrestrial species of geckos. But again they're all nocturnal.

There are some other lizards that could live their lives out in a 40 gallon breeder. But for the most part it is a bit of a small tank for a lot of them. (Think "minimum" recommended size versus what is actually appropriate like so many do with fish. Which I know isn't your style.)

But yeah... Gargs. ALONE until after they mature and you can tell the sex.


----------

