# marginatus or not?



## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Hey,

Had my new marginatus for about a month now and love the little fella.
I bought him from a well reputable seller as a marginatus but looking at some pics of marginatus on here Im not as sure as I was and was just wanting a second opinion from you guys.
Hes only a juv so is still supporting red on the gills.
Hes not aggressive really compared to what people say about marginatus on here.Attacks his reflection alot but is quite scared of me and doesnt seem to know what to make of my finger when I try to get him to chase lol
Sorry if the pics are too large.


















Thanks


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

well it looks nothing like mine did at 4" but that is the smallest i have ever seen. it is tough sometimes with juvinile serra's cuz they all look the same until a certian size. i'll see if i can find pics of mine when it was small and post them later


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

thanks, oh and mines about 3"


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Mine had yellow...not red....however that doesnt mean a lot in these small fish. Can you get some better pictures?


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

i personally think its a sanchezi or compressus. Was it from someone who knew there stuff when it comes to piranha or just a reputable seller in general


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

I got my little guy at under 2"...mine also had yellowish coloration. My first impression is sanchezi based on the coloration, dorsal fin, anal fin, and tail. The tail does not appear to have as prominent of an anterior band that a marginatus should have and the dorsal and anal fin shape doesn't match. Honestly, the forehead doesn't appear to have that distinct marginatus slant either. Some better pics would help though as the substrate, lighting, and quality tend to wash the fish out.

Here is my guy at 3-4":


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Jonny, I would have to say that you do not have a marginatus. Just my opinion of course.


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## ELREYDENJ83 (Jun 25, 2008)

first impression is sanchezi


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated. The seller does sell alot of piranha's and has alot of good things said about them. For those of you in the UK the company is Wildwoods, may of heard of them.

My Digital cam is broke at the moment so I'll try and borrow my sisters tonight.

Not sure if this helps at all but the fish's scales have a slight green tint to them in the light. Also it has clear eyes rather than red.

To be honest if it is a Sanchezi it will help me out abit lol, its currently in a temp tank before moving into a new 30G tank, so if it is a Sanchezi it will in there for life.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

I have a seven plus inch marginatus and I think it's one of the best serras I've owned next to my gibbus so I hope your guy turns out to be a margi too but I'm leaning towards a sanchezi as well.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Ive got some better quality pictures, just trying to find the damn cable lol hopefully I'll have them up tonight.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Taken some better pictures, please excuse the dirty glass, These were taken last week while the fish was in a temporary holding tank.





































Hope these help abit more than the other pictures.

Cheers


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

With those new pics it now looks like a pristobrycon striolatus.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Ja said:


> With those new pics it now looks like a pristobrycon striolatus.


Arent they extremely rare though?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Sanchezi imo.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Sanchezi imo.


Spotting is off and the eye is not red...I'm leaning towards either S. humeralis/eigenmanni or with Ja'eh on P. striolatus. I'm going to have to pull out my p book and peruse OPEFE some more.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Quite a strange little fella isnt it lol
It does look alot like Pristo striolatus all though mine has a more extended lower jaw.
As said the eyes arent red and the spots arent as bold. Also doesnt seem to have as much intensity of red like a Sanchezi.

Thanks for all the help guys, is much appreciated.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

i have a p. striolotas thats about 4" or so, and its more heavly spotted and doesn't have the red , but it could be a geographical variation. could be humeralus too, but i have never seen one that small for me to compare it too


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

rhomkeeper said:


> i have a p. striolotas thats about 4" or so, and its more heavly spotted and doesn't have the red , but it could be a geographical variation. could be humeralus too, but i have never seen one that small for me to compare it too


Ive looked on google and seen on angelfire.com and fishbase.org etc that some striolatus do have red around the gills etc so it most proberly is a geographical variation I would have thought. Do you have a picture you could post up please?


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

Jonny_dw said:


> i have a p. striolotas thats about 4" or so, and its more heavly spotted and doesn't have the red , but it could be a geographical variation. could be humeralus too, but i have never seen one that small for me to compare it too


Ive looked on google and seen on angelfire.com and fishbase.org etc that some striolatus do have red around the gills etc so it most proberly is a geographical variation I would have thought. Do you have a picture you could post up please?
[/quote]

i'llput some up tomorrow night, my camera is at work. if you look on aquascape's web site the pic that pedro has( mis-labeled as s. scapularus) has tons of red, but i have never seen one that looked like that


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks alot. I looked on aquascape and the miss labelled P. Striolatus does look alot like mine but with more spots. I'll try and take some more pictures and try emailing the seller to see if I can get abit more info on where it came from.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

here is my p. striolatus. sorry pics arn't that good but the little bastard won't sit still


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

this is the same fish but at the wholesalers


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

It does look very similar, although mine has alot more red around the gills and anal fin (possibly a different area variation). Yours also has alot more bolder spots than mine aswell. However looking on the net, there are a few pics of P. Striolatus that look very similar to mine that are from Venezuela. Do you know what area yours is from?


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

mine came out of brazil, or at least thats wherer the exporter that shiped them into the u.s. is, that doesn't nessecarly mean that it was collected there but, most likely.

mine also got more spots as it got bigger, if you look at the second pic(at the wholesaler) there are a lot less spots. the other pic was taken last night, so about 6 or 7 months after the first, and he has changed quite noticably


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## Demon Darko (Jan 28, 2007)

The first fish pictured on this thread def. looked like a sanchezi imo.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Ive heard back from the seller of this fish. Very friendly guy, he says the importer cannot say exactly where abouts it was collected from. However my seller has had a batch come in this week and has a fish that is exactly the same under the name marginatus.

So he believes it proberly is a marginatus and is supporting regional varation in the colouring. He did say, as most of you know, ID'ing P's can be rather difficult especially at a young age.

Im not convinced myself, I think a P. Striolatus is the most similar looking fish or possibly a Eigemanni but dont think its a sanchezi.

I guess I'll have to wait till it starts to get towards adulthood.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

Jonny_dw said:


> Ive heard back from the seller of this fish. Very friendly guy, he says the importer cannot say exactly where abouts it was collected from. However my seller has had a batch come in this week and has a fish that is exactly the same under the name marginatus.
> 
> So he believes it proberly is a marginatus and is supporting regional varation in the colouring. He did say, as most of you know, ID'ing P's can be rather difficult especially at a young age.
> 
> ...


what ever it is, it deffinatly is not margenatus, it doesn't have any of the tell tale features of margenatus.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Yeah that is what I was thinking. Im betting on either P.Striolatus or Eigenmanni. Will have to wait and see lol.

Thanks everyone for your help


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

Jonny_dw said:


> Yeah that is what I was thinking. Im betting on either P.Striolatus or Eigenmanni. Will have to wait and see lol.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help


me personaly i would put my money on p. striolatus, but thats me


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Yeah I think I agree with you. Manily because of its lower jaw, orangy ting to the belly area and red on the anal fin.

It also has a greenish tint to it when light catches its scales..dont know if that helps at all.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Jonny_dw said:


> Yeah I think I agree with you. Manily because of its lower jaw, orangy ting to the belly area and red on the anal fin.
> 
> It also has a greenish tint to it when light catches its scales..dont know if that helps at all.


The speckled spotting in your second set of pics has me leaning towards striolatus...it is called the speckled piranha afterall!


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

BioTeAcH said:


> The speckled spotting in your second set of pics has me leaning towards striolatus...it is called the speckled piranha afterall!


Yeah lol I think in all proberbility it is a P.striolatus. They only grow to about 6 or 7" dont they?


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

well oppfe has max size at 15 centimeters,thats abot 6 " but i think i saw on at shark aquarium close to 8" or 9" a while ago


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

ah right. On fishbase.org I think it was, it said 15cm but I had seen on another around 20cm so I guess it depends on alot of diet,water changes etc but around the 6-8" mark.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

Hey guys.

I found the original section on my fish on the sellers website.
Here is a pic took of my fish and what it should look like when its older.

As you've proberly guessed, its advertised as a marginatus but the adult picture looks nothing like the ones Ive seen. Maybe your expert eyes can tell me what my fish really is from this adult pic.










Thats the picture taken of my fish










And what it should look like as an adult.

Thanks for all your time guys


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

Jonny_dw said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I found the original section on my fish on the sellers website.
> Here is a pic took of my fish and what it should look like when its older.
> ...


ok. the first pic posted is p. striolatus. the second pic is s. maculatus, the fish you have will look nothing like the second pic

this is what your fish should look like at adult size, yours may heve more red than this guy does


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

thanks for the help rhomkeeper, sorry to be a pain lol


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

Jonny_dw said:


> thanks for the help rhomkeeper, sorry to be a pain lol


any time. and by no means are you a pain, thats why this fourm is here and we are on it, to share knowledge and information and help each other out with the animals we love.


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## Jonny_dw (Oct 2, 2008)

I understand that, just seems I keep bringing this same subject up lol.

Thanks though.


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## rhomkeeper (Mar 31, 2008)

Jonny_dw said:


> I understand that, just seems I keep bringing this same subject up lol.
> 
> Thanks though.


it is by no means your fault that your supplier is giving you the wrong info. most suppliers still use old out dated piranha books for most of their info, and those books are SOOOO wrong about so much. some people just get in what their supplies tell them and realy have no clue what their selling to their customers. it's a common thing with piranha. i would always suggest that if your going to by a piranha, get pics first and then compare them to pics on OPEFE site to confirm id, frank has copiled all that info from the people who are actualy out there working with piranhas and does his best to make sure that the info is accurate


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