# 2 x Sanchezi + 1 Maculatus



## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

I'm about to get rid of my 'shoal' with 9 reds, and then fix the leak from the top of the tank.

Then I'm going to get to Sanchezis at the same size as the Maculatus I already have in my 65G.

Whenever I've read threads in mixing serras, I've only seen people doing it in less than 100gals or so.

What do you think of a 200Gal with 3 Serras?


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

200 gal would be good, but I don't know that I'd try mixing serra species. I'd go with either sanchezi (yikes!) or macs, but not both. Get them small too so they grow up together.


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## Moondemon (Dec 9, 2006)

Like said above, I would not mix two species of serra. 
I would try 2 sanchezis in that 200 gallon tank. Get them small, so they won't be too expensive, and get them A LOT of hidding spots.
I'd put a lot of plants, rock setups to create little caves and driftwood. I'd also put some small neons or something they can chase.... and keep your tank temp low !


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

Moondemon said:


> Like said above, I would not mix two species of serra.
> I would try 2 sanchezis in that 200 gallon tank. Get them small, so they won't be too expensive, and get them A LOT of hidding spots.
> I'd put a lot of plants, rock setups to create little caves and driftwood. I'd also put some small neons or something they can chase.... and keep your tank temp low !


Thanks for the comments guys.

I already have kinda bought the Sanchezi's. I bet those two are 2 of max. 5 Sanch. i Norway. There are so few Serras here, so it's kinda hard to get them "small". But they are around 12-15 cm (C0rey?), I believe.

The rocks and caves and driftwood is a sure thing. And neons or something else fast, small and cheap fish









I'll keep you updated on what my decisions will be.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

Both Sanchezis and Mac are know of "fin nip" fish....IMO Red Spilo (aka Sanchezis) and Gold Spilo(aks Gold Mac) can be group and cohab. Just make sure you have plenty of hiding space, keep them well fed,and keep the temp low.

Good Luck


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

i thought S.sanchezi was given the common name "purple spilo"


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

it would be a very interesting cohab but I dont think it will work


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## Moondemon (Dec 9, 2006)

coutl said:


> it would be a very interesting cohab but I dont think it will work


yeah.. that must be rare, but on another site... I saw a video of a sanchezi breeding cohab.. pretty cool and the tank wasn't so big... I guess it's a matter of how you introduce the fish + their personnality + perfect water specs for that fish...


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY said:


> Both Sanchezis and Mac are know of "fin nip" fish....*IMO Red Spilo (aka Sanchezis) and Gold Spilo(aks Gold Mac) can be group and cohab*. Just make sure you have plenty of hiding space, keep them well fed,and keep the temp low.
> 
> Good Luck


I disagree...sanchezi is a rhombeus complex member despite the out dated common names of Spilopleura CF, Red Spilo, Purple Spilo, etc... According to OPEFE it also appears to be closely related to S. irritans.

S. Maculatus is found in groups in the wild, so it appears under the right conditions they tolerate other members of the same species. It's hard enough to mix serras of the same species...I wouldn't push your luck any further by mixing species.


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## CorGravey (Feb 13, 2007)

There are hundreds of variables that will determine if this will work. Keep us posted and good luck.


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## SNAKEBITE (Oct 7, 2006)

odyssey said:


> *Serrasalmus sanchezi which is a member of the rhombeus complex NOT spilopleura complex.*
> 
> *Spilopleura complex are; S. spilopleura, S. maculatus, S. medinai, S. neveriensis to name a few.*


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

^ i know its not really in the group spilo, but that dosnt stop people using that common name. which purple spilo was given to sanchezi years ago.


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## P boost (Sep 17, 2006)

If it was me i would go with more fish in that tank because you dont want one fish getting TAken out due to no spread of aggression on other fish! I have had as mixed serra group going for 3 months havn't lost a fish yet and fin nipping is very minimal! Feedings are the key and very strong currents to keep your fish occupied! I have jsut a sand bottom tank no decor and i find it works very well, i wouldnt try any decor for a few months untill you can see how your fish set in ! Ive seen Good serra cohabs in person and they can work under certain conditions and also no 2 groups of fish are alike ! If you ahve any questions you can shoot me a pm. Since msot peopel on the board insist it wont work and prolly havn't tried them selves.


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## odyssey (May 30, 2006)

SNAKEBITE said:


> *Serrasalmus sanchezi which is a member of the rhombeus complex NOT spilopleura complex.*
> 
> *Spilopleura complex are; S. spilopleura, S. maculatus, S. medinai, S. neveriensis to name a few.*


[/quote]

ahhh i see what your saying now, sorry if i came across argumentative!


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## 77gp454 (Feb 18, 2007)

Good luck cohabing the Sanchezis. Sounds like you have a nice size tank for them. Should reduce your odds of casualties.


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## ronzz (Oct 26, 2004)

i have a mac and he hates everything! even tried him in a 6x2x2 tank and had to move him quickly as he was chasing and biting everything he could catch but he loved it, for the hour he was there! now he,s back alone well with a few neons


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

ronzz said:


> i have a mac and he hates everything! even tried him in a 6x2x2 tank and had to move him quickly as he was chasing and biting everything he could catch but he loved it, for the hour he was there! now he,s back alone well with a few neons


My mac isn't that aggressive. In fact he's had two visitors in his tank the last week, and they haven't even had a fin nip. 








Here's two empty tanks just waiting for fish and water.
It's one 200GAL and one 165GAL. I will have the Serra's in the 200GAL. (The blue tank)


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## ronzz (Oct 26, 2004)

i guess every fish is different but in imo macs are not good with tank mates


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

well now you have the fish! let us know how this plays out.


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

C0Rey said:


> well now you have the fish! let us know how this plays out.


That's right C0rey =) Thank you for the two little buggers ! 









I will post up some pics tomorrow. Stay tuned


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## d851 (Oct 31, 2006)

Good luck, keep the updates coming

daz


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

Here's some pics


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

NICE. how are they acting?


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

C0Rey said:


> NICE. how are they acting?


They're keeping to themselves. Not much around eachother. 
The yellow sanchezi tried to stay in the Mac's spot, under one of the driftwoods, but that was not a place to be


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

so the 2 sanchezi are not dancing?

if so sounds good..

haha i bet the mac showed him whos boss pretty fast ..


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> My mac isn't that aggressive. In fact he's had two visitors in his tank the last week, and they haven't even had a fin nip.


Please explain why the convict is bit up on the fins. As for the rest, nothing unusual. They take awhile to adjust before the fun starts.







Let me qualify: http://opefe.com/pira_aquario.html


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > My mac isn't that aggressive. In fact he's had two visitors in his tank the last week, and they haven't even had a fin nip.
> 
> 
> Please explain why the convict is bit up on the fins. As for the rest, nothing unusual. They take awhile to adjust before the fun starts.
> ...


They've been with 9 other 7-9" RBP's for about two weeks ago...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> They've been with 9 other 7-9" RBP's for about two weeks ago...


 Your lucky that is all they bit. So that I'm not mistaken, you think that a fin biter (Serrasalmus sanchezi and S. maculatus) will not bite each others fins because..............?


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

hastatus said:


> > They've been with 9 other 7-9" RBP's for about two weeks ago...
> 
> 
> Your lucky that is all they bit. So that I'm not mistaken, you think that a fin biter (Serrasalmus sanchezi and S. maculatus) will not bite each others fins because..............?


I agree with Frank, can you please elaborate ?


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

Hater said:


> > They've been with 9 other 7-9" RBP's for about two weeks ago...
> 
> 
> Your lucky that is all they bit. So that I'm not mistaken, you think that a fin biter (Serrasalmus sanchezi and S. maculatus) will not bite each others fins because..............?


I agree with Frank, can you please elaborate ?
[/quote]

I do not believe they won't bite eachothers fins, where did I state that?

Anyways, I want the sebras in there because they are the most pushy ones, and so they (in my experience) are the ones that get bitten by their fins. 
So they won't go on eachother. That's the experience I've had with the RBP, and with only 3 serras in the 200gal they've all got their own territory.

I'm not saying this will go well or not. And I see Frank that you've tried the cohab with RBP's, Mac's and Sanchezis i a 150Gal tub which didn't go well, and the result was death after one month only.
Is this a one time experience over a month or have you done this more times? ( I mean the Sanch. Mac RBP cohab-test only, I know you have done several trial-cohabs of course).

I am just saying that I want to try this and see how it goes. I see that you've tried something similiar, but it did not work, but I am not convinced that this may _NEVER_ work. Of course I don't expect them to last a lifetime together, but there are few RBP's that last a lifetime together aswell.

Don't flame me please for this input, just speaking my mind. No flames intended from my side either..


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I do not believe they won't bite eachothers fins, where did I state that?
> 
> Anyways, I want the sebras in there because they are the most pushy ones, and so they (in my experience) are the ones that get bitten by their fins.
> So they won't go on eachother. That's the experience I've had with the RBP, and with only 3 serras in the 200gal they've all got their own territory.
> ...


Asking questions does not denote a "flame" so don't take it that way.



> My mac isn't that aggressive. In fact he's had two visitors in his tank the last week, and they haven't even had a fin nip


. That remark implies the fish will not bite.



> or have you done this more times?


After trying this type of stuff for over 40 years, I'm sure that I can say unequivicle that I've done it more than twice. Its been my experience in all those years, there remains a certain group or mentality of people that think they can tame the beast. The fish always find a way to clear things up.:laugh:

Its your fish kill them anyway you want. I just want to know what your expectations are. In otherwords are you trying to prove something? If so, how does that enhance the hobby if you are the only person proving it, assuming they don't seriously damage either?


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

> Asking questions does not denote a "flame" so don't take it that way.





> Its your fish kill them anyway you want.


....

So you imply that since you tried it, nobody else can? Or am I wrong?



> > or have you done this more times?
> 
> 
> After trying this type of stuff for over 40 years, I'm sure that I can say unequivicle that I've done it more than twice.


I meant as I stated, have you done the excact RBP + MAC + SANCHEZI cohab several times?



> In otherwords are you trying to prove something?


Weren't you?



> Its been my experience in all those years, there remains a certain group or mentality of people that think they can tame the beast.


Didn't you think that way before you tried it for yourself?



> My mac isn't that aggressive. In fact he's had two visitors in his tank the last week, and they haven't even had a fin nip


. 


> That remark implies the fish will not bite.


That remark implies that the fish _could_ be more agressive. It had been two weeks, how could I predict on that that the Mac would never bite?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> So you imply that since you tried it, nobody else can? Or am I wrong?


No, I'm not the Lone Ranger. What I'm stating is the majority of "tries" by many people including museum and zoological gardens. Any aquarists worth their grain of salt will tell you that attempting this is foolish. What it comes down to is this. If you care about the fish health then keep it safe and stress free. What you propose does neither and that is where my experience and others that have tried to tell you come into play. Its no skin off my nose if you don't want to listen to EXPERIENCE. Also, when I was "putting species together" was long before published books caught up with it and forums like this talk about it. So by all means prove the species information wrong.

Good luck to your fish.


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > So you imply that since you tried it, nobody else can? Or am I wrong?
> 
> 
> No, I'm not the Lone Ranger. What I'm stating is the majority of "tries" by many people including museum and zoological gardens. Any aquarists worth their grain of salt will tell you that attempting this is foolish. What it comes down to is this. If you care about the fish health then keep it safe and stress free. What you propose does neither and that is where my experience and others that have tried to tell you come into play. Its no skin off my nose if you don't want to listen to EXPERIENCE. Also, when I was "putting species together" was long before published books caught up with it and forums like this talk about it. So by all means prove the species information wrong.
> ...


Thank you.


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

hastatus said:


> > So you imply that since you tried it, nobody else can? Or am I wrong?
> 
> 
> No, I'm not the Lone Ranger. What I'm stating is the majority of "tries" by many people including museum and zoological gardens. Any aquarists worth their grain of salt will tell you that attempting this is foolish. What it comes down to is this. If you care about the fish health then keep it safe and stress free. What you propose does neither and that is where my experience and others that have tried to tell you come into play. Its no skin off my nose if you don't want to listen to EXPERIENCE. Also, when I was "putting species together" was long before published books caught up with it and forums like this talk about it. So by all means prove the species information wrong.
> ...


Frank it doesn't matter what you say, this thread starter feels like he knows more then anyone whos tried this before.

My point is. No matter what you say, he will continue with his experiemnt until the expected happens, the fishes kill each other. Good job Deph, you will cause the death of an innocent fish to prove something that has already been proven. That different species of Serras can't be kept together.

Hater


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I remember David Schleser and I having this conversation a few years back about his captive sanchezi. Recently we were discussing his revised book and left me with this:



> While I was at the Dallas Aquarium we got in a confiscated group of 25 young adult (8") S. sanchezi. We kept them all in a 300 gallon concrete holding tank that looked like a concrete container for a coffin. It was an open system with aconstant trickle of freshwater from our well. No plants or other cover. Other than very minor fin nipping they did well together for over a year when we were able to get rid of them. We tried adding a couple of natterei to the group to see if it would be possible to put snachezi in the 3000 gallon display tank with a lrge group of natterei, but sanchezi over a few days definned and removed bites of flesh from the test red bellies. End of that idea. And water temp was only 72 - 74F. I think aggression would have increased if they were kept warmer, or there were fewer together.


But anyway, its all good. The species always has the last word on such matters anyway.


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## Eric99 (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm no expert my any means but from what I have observed in my tank, I say if you want a Serra cohab go with 1 of each of the Serras you like (obviously its not wise to put a rhom or elong in a cohab). I definitantly think that 1 Mac, 1 Sanchezi and another Serra or 2 can work out for a while. I have 2 Macs and a Sanchezi in my 75 and the 2 Macs fight from time to time but leave the Sanchezi alone. Start them out small if you can also. The temp in my tank is 80 degees also. Once again thats just my opinion.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

any updates? pics?


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## Eric99 (Nov 29, 2006)

C0Rey said:


> any updates? pics?


 If you are talking about mine go to the pictures and videos forum it is on page 2. I am probably going to give some to a local pet shop because nobody will buy them. I am getting a Diamond Rhom from Ash on Tuesday.


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## face2006 (Feb 17, 2006)

wish I was closer..man nobody lives even 2 hours from this guy?...its worth the drive I think


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## Eric99 (Nov 29, 2006)

face2006 said:


> wish I was closer..man nobody lives even 2 hours from this guy?...its worth the drive I think


I gave a Mac, Tern and Red Belly to a lfs yesterday. It kinda sucks to know that they will probably end up selling them for a decent amount of money. I put an ad in the member classified section and nobody at all wanted them! How many members to we have in the tri-state area here (Pa, Oh, Wv)? I would have much rather have given them to a member of this site! It's unbelievable that out of what 15k members nobody lives close enough to me who wanted them? I am keeping my Sanchezi and smallest Mac. The Rhom I just got is sharing the tank with my Mac-divided of course! The Mac tries to bite the Rhom through the divider and it is probably more than 3-4 times its size!


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

updates


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## imnohero (Aug 12, 2007)

Can we see some pics?


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

C0Rey said:


> updates


Sorry everyone for not updating this thread. Had a bit of a down period with the hobby.

The first sanchezi went down after 3 weeks, chomped by the others.

The last sanchezi and the maculatus was together for 4 more months in the tank, when I had to switch them over to another tank, a 65G, because my Pacu started getting big :S

And the temperature in the 65GAL was around 88 Degrees Fahrenheit, which showed a really big increase in aggression in the fish. So after 3 hours in the 65G the little Sanchezi had half his tail bit off, and I had to remove him into another tank.

Today they are in the 65GAL Divided between eachother. See pics:


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