# terns? whats the big deal?



## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

just curious i saw a post alittle while agi about terns and rbp and if im not mistaken frank said theyre the same fish just different colors and from diffeent waters if thats true why are terns 3x as muc as rbp when all they are are rbp with yellow colorings? is it the fab thing like caribes were alot more a few months ago now theyre 30-40 bucks for 3-4" do u think tern price wil come down? and while were on it why are pirayas so expensive no matter what size?


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

reds are bred frequently in captivity.

Terns are not, prices have actually dropped quite a bit in the last year on these fish.

Piraya are not and only have a limited source channel out of country. They will be expensive for a time.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

Ron said:


> reds are bred frequently in captivity.
> 
> Terns are not, prices have actually dropped quite a bit in the last year on these fish.
> 
> Piraya are not and only have a limited source channel out of country. They will be expensive for a time.


 thx ron im suprised no one has bred terns yet whoever does whoa!!!!! talk about money!!!


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

I didn't say that nobody has bred terns, I personally know of nobody that can proove they have bred the fish. They may have been, Ihave heard that stated, just haven't seen the fish or seen them enter into the hobby or commercial streams eithre.


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## Piranha King (Nov 28, 2002)

all the fish come down in price, even piraya. btw you could get 4" caribe last year for 50 bucks so they are only 10 cheaper.
wes


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Pirayas are very difficcult to find, the reason they are so expensive...i live in Venezuela, close to Brazil where Pirayas como from and don´t have one!


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

I thought pirayas are easy to find but no1 goes there to catch them?


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

o snap its eric said:


> I thought pirayas are easy to find but no1 goes there to catch them?


Hahaha...well said!


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Terns ARE considered RBs with Yellow bellies to most. Plain and simple reasons why it costs more is because of overwhelming supply, demand, and public interest... not to mention its rarity compared to RBs.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

I think that Ternz (yellow natts) are just going to be the new summer P fasion. Spring and winter was Caribe. Summer is going to be Ternz.









~Dj


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## FeederFish33 (Jan 22, 2003)

i thought terns were more aggressive?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Ron check out my page in P. nattereri, there is a yellow form bred in captivity originally thought to be an albino by hobbyists who first encountered it. That fish was raised without light in a dark room, but is one of the offspring produced by Bud Guyer from Ohio for a number of years. It is indeed the ternetzi and is bred. Just not at the commercial level of mass production like P. nattereri.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

thx guys i was ust curious i think ill wait till terns come down in price lol


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## Hannibal (Dec 2, 2002)

I think this was a great question. I dont get it either. I mean if you breed a fish in captivity, why is it considered a ternetzi now? Why isn't it called a red? If a Tern and a Red... since they are the same species... what would it be considered? If two ternetzis bred what would it's offspring be?

All of these questions are referring to breeding in captivity. I dont see how the ternetzi's breeding would produce a yellow looking piranha at all, since I belive terns get their color from the part of the river they grow up in. If its in an aquarium, they should look like red belly's correct?

If these are both the same fish... then you can't technically even breed a tenetzi can you?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Hannibal Posted on Jun 4 2003, 07:52 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I think this was a great question. I dont get it either. I mean if you breed a fish in captivity, why is it considered a ternetzi now? * Because ternetzi is a common name for P. nattereri color form, no sci value. *
> 
> ...


*Wrong again, for the reasons stated above. And I should add, you are putting to much value in a common name that has nothing to do with the physiology of the fish itself or its scientific placement.*


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## Hannibal (Dec 2, 2002)

I was under the impression that a yellow natt or ternetzi became that way because of a certain part of a river it grew up in. Apparently I am wrong. Can you explain that to me?? How does a red become a ternetzi?

Can you take two baby reds... put one in a certain part of a river somewhere and the other red in another part of a red and one grow to a tern and the other grow to be a red? How does a piranha become a tern?

Is a tern a "victim" of it's environment? It becomes that way because of it's surroundings??


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

Hannibal said:


> If these are both the same fish... then you can't technically even breed a tenetzi can you?


 Huh? Another question frank. What will you get if you bred a tern and a RB. Well, as we all know they are Natts so i dont see why it would be hard for a RB and "Tern" to breed. If they did end up breeding, im just curious would we get red/yellow mix or may turn into pink or orange? Wouldnt that be cool a orange or pink Natts.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> snap its eric Posted on Jun 4 2003, 08:16 PM ..Huh? Another question frank. What will you get if you bred a tern and a RB. Well, as we all know they are Natts so i dont see why it would be hard for a RB and "Tern" to breed. If they did end up breeding, im just curious would we get red/yellow mix or may turn into pink or orange? Wouldnt that be cool a orange or pink Natts.


Hard to say. Yellow bellies appear to be scattered even in areas where red and orange bellied piranas are found. Its speculation on my part that the yellow are more prominent in Argentina and Paraguay because of the water. Yellow is a very strong color with many of the fishes from that region. For a hypothesis on what color you would get by breeding them? don't know, might get some that are yellow and some that are red, depends on the parentage of which one has the stronger color dominance.


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## NIKE (Jan 27, 2003)

good questions







with some good answers


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

Anyway, I think all the fish prices come down in time, then they level out at a price that it will cost to get the fish in general. Since there are more people going after these fish, more are being exported at cheaper costs, prices have been falling. Good old competition. Once they reach their bottom, either there is still money to be made in a fish, or nobody will import it anymore.

A $10 price decrease in a $50 fish is a 20% price decrease (cariba)

Terns 7-8" have dropped from a $200.00 fish to $125.00 that is 37.5% drop in price

5-6" piraya were $250 a year ago, $150 now, a whopping 40% price decrease.

The Rio Sao Francisco is pretty far from Venezuela.

Piraya are pricey because you will not find major populated cities in the area that have international airports. So the fish have to be shipped in country once, ussually at a mark up in price, then exported, IF you can find someone that will go there to collect them.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

NIKE said:


> good questions
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Yes indeed!!!







Thats why, this as an example, we have the best Piranha site on the web!!









Good questions, Great answers, and alot who are willing to absorb more knowledge because the love of the hobby!!!











Dj said:


> I think that Ternz (yellow natts) are just going to be the new summer P fasion. Spring and winter was Caribe. Summer is going to be Ternz.


I also think Pirayas might be right behinde Terns, since after Terns are becoming much in availability. Hold on to your RBs too.. they will make a comeback!!


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## DiXoN (Jan 31, 2003)

piraya reds cariba whatever i just want to own look after them and enjoy them .
who cares whats in fashion buy what you like ,a cariba is the next one for me to complete my pygo set on the next uk order i was even thinking about buying a wild red and selling my captive bred reds.
i will also have a spare 55 so a serra may be next on the uk order after that i havn't decided what but i would not let what everybody else is getting sway my decision and just enjoy them for what they are .
good post though i will have to start getting back on again more often been to busy lately

dixon


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

i love this site


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## LouiCypher (Mar 10, 2003)

> Hannibal Posted on Jun 4 2003, 02:15 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I was under the impression that a yellow natt or ternetzi became that way because of a certain part of a river it grew up in. Apparently I am wrong. Can you explain that to me?? How does a red become a ternetzi?
> 
> ...


Just think of it in a human sense. People are all people, but some are white, some are black and some are in between. And they can be found in the same river (city). But nonetheless, they are still people with the **same physical make up**.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

LouiCypher said:


> Just think of it in a human sense. People are all people, but some are white, some are black and some are in between. And they can be found in the same river (city). But nonetheless, they are still people with the **same physical make up**.


 Understood







Yes, we are all human.. but we all have our interests in choosing different people we wanna hang or be with. As much as you dunt wanna admitt it.. you pinpoint on having different varieties.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

dam this is turning into a very good thread


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

Death in # said:


> dam this is turning into a very good thread


 duh the toffee pimp started it lol


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## Honda99_300ex (Apr 18, 2003)

Ron said:


> IF you can find someone that will go there to collect them.


 what do you mean "if" someone will go there, is it dangerous or just out of the way?


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Honda99_300ex said:


> Ron said:
> 
> 
> > IF you can find someone that will go there to collect them.
> ...


 Correct me if Im wrong.. Dont distributors have contracts which states what kind and where local fishermens go to find these wonderful creatures? And the more rare the specie, the more money they have to pay inorder for the them to catch it, especially if from another area of the Amazon? Also how easy would you think it would be to catch a Piraya in a River with o many different Ps, as well as other inhabitants.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

South America isn't exactly so structured in the fish collecting arena as some may think.

I will try to type this in a way to explain my point, hope it comes across correctly.

The Rio Sao Francisco basin is home of the Pygocentrus Piraya.

This is the ONLY river system the fish is found.

There are no major cities that have permanent collection and holding facilities on this river system.

IF someone in the USA wants to get pygocentrus piraya exported to tham, they have to find a person/company that is licensed in Brazil to collect fish, hold fish, and export them.

THEN they have to convince this company to send people to the river system to collect a fish, that the fishermen know little to nothing about, do not know exactly where to catch it in numbers, will have trouble storing it in quantities and then will have to ship it from the river system to an area where they do have a permanent holding facility so it can be prepared and inspected for export to the USA.

NOW, if they go and collect very few fish and have high expenses, the price is very high. OVER time they get better at WHEN to go, WHERE to go, and the procedures needed to get the fish back to a good facility for export. The price then begins to go down as everyone in the chain, from requesting the fish, to getting, holding, shipping, and selling it to you is making money for doing this.

CAN the price bounce back up?

Sure, they go at the wrong time or to an area with few fish or poor conditions for catching them. The fishermen are AT LEAST going to get paid for their time and expenses no matter what the price of each fish is. If the exporter doesn't pay the price, who is going back to fish for more and risk loosing money on another collection trip to the wonderful Rio Sao Francisco River system, when they could stay at home with the Chicka and catch common fish near their house?

I hope that answers some of your questions about the pricing and the way the fish actually get here. Should also give you a good reasoning why some fish are more expensive than others. I won't even get started on shipping costs and fees from South America.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

Ron, If there is a high in demand for a certain fish wouldnt the product go up in price? Well actually it can go both ways. The Importer can limit the amount of fish Imported the US therfore making the fish more "rare". But if you look it at the other way, the importer is sending the high demanded fish like mad then the price would definitly drop and making the fish "worthless". The first method is used on asian arowannas. Sucks. So i dont know if the fish price would continue to drop. Again it all depends on the importer.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

O snap,

You are correct, and if one exporter is the sole source of a species of fish then they can maintain a good enough flow to maintain a premium price.

Prices will only start to drop when competition forces everyone to do it for less.

This generally happens when there is too much money to be made in a fish that others will chase it down to get some of the pie as well. If too many people get ahold of it, the price could crash or people just get bored with a fish and change to something else for a time.

By the way. Most Asian arrowanas can now be legally imported into the USA, very easily, as they are now being bred in record numbers. The only reason the fish is still restricted by US Fish and Wildlife is that the arrowana population in the wild is still at risk.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

WHAT!?!?!?! legally? Asian ARO? never heard that in one sentance before. PLease tell me more. I am really intrested.

Lastly, i can see that P's price will drop then. People are smuggling P's in left and right. There is no "main" source (that i know of) were everyone relies on.


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

better start a new thread about Aros. Let's keep this in P prices and why?


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Thanks for the heads up Ron.







Good info to relay on future questions


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

RhomZilla said:


> Thanks for the heads up Ron.
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ys great ron for letting me know well all of us and give the toffee pimp his props lol


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## LouiCypher (Mar 10, 2003)

> RhomZilla Posted: Jun 4 2003, 07:49 PM
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I wasn't talking about anything concerning interest or choice.







What I meant is that we have adapted in different areas in which conditons are not the same. We all have the same physiology, yet we still display differences which are a result of variable conditions. Applied to nattereri: it more than likely originated in one area under the same conditions and as it moved into different regions and started experiencing different conditions, it had to adapt.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

LouiCypher said:


> I wasn't talking about anything concerning interest or choice.
> 
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I get cha..
















But I think it was my falut for using the wrong choice of words. Especially on the part, "As much as you dunt wanna admitt it..", sounedd like I was arguing or starting a debate with you. No direct intentions meant, LC!!!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RhomZilla Posted on Jun 5 2003, 08:25 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> QUOTE (LouiCypher @ Jun 4 2003, 11:34 PM)
> I wasn't talking about anything concerning interest or choice. What I meant is that we have adapted in different areas in which conditons are not the same. We all have the same physiology, yet we still display differences which are a result of variable conditions. Applied to nattereri: it more than likely originated in one area under the same conditions and as it moved into different regions and started experiencing different conditions, it had to adapt.
> ...










Glad you got it sorted out.


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

RhomZilla said:


> Terns ARE considered RBs with Yellow bellies to most. Plain and simple reasons why it costs more is because of overwhelming supply, demand, and public interest... not to mention its rarity compared to RBs.


 right.

I can't really say its a "better piranha" but it is a personal preference with coloring, some people think the yellow looks better. other people want one because they are less common


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

rarity is a major factor for any fish. Making things rare makes it more desirable so the people who purchase these rare fish can have something to brag about.


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