# Cloudy water in a 3 week old setup



## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

I have 5 baby rbp all about 1.5" long.
The water was lovely and clear for fist 2 weeks with the fish in, but it has now gone cloudy. I had the tank set up and running a week before I put any p's in. 
I can see the back of tank OK, it just looks cloudy, and when looking length ways down the tank I can't see the other side.
The PH and nitrite levels are fine (about 7 and less than 0.3).
I have been doing a daily 10% change for a few days and it has not had and affect. The rbp's are eating well so I'm not worried about there health they don't seam stressed at all ether.

Any suggestions on clearing it up quickly, or do I just keep on doing small water changes on a daily basis?


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

was the tank cycled?
ammonia level?

also make sure you don't have any food leftovers in your tank, and don't feed too much (although baby reds should be fed often - several times a day - you shouldn't give too large quantities)


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

I set the tank up a week before I put the p's in, with the filter and heater etc.. So the water had been pumped round for a week. Is that what you mean by cycled?

Not sure about ammonia level, can the ammonia level be high even if the nitrite level and PH is OK.

As for feeding I give them blood worm twice a day morning and night. They always clean up.

I added ammo lock, propper PH 7.0 and Stress Zyem to the water when setting it up.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Cycling is the process of building a bacteria colony in your tank (and mainly filtratiion). This takes about 2-4 weeks or longer. But to start the process you need to have a source of ammonia. so letting your tank run for 1 week doesn't do much.

So becasue you didn't cycle before putting the fish in, you're cycling the tank now, which isn't the best way. Test the water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates often as long as your tank isn't cycled yet.

Yes you can have an ammonia reading without nitrite. Fish produce ammonia (but also food leftovers, and fish crap do the same). Normally if you tank is cycled you have two kinds of bacteria in your tank. The first kind will break down the ammonia into nitrites. The second will break down the nitrites in nitrates. (Nitrites and ammonia are very toxic, nitrates are less toxic). So if you don't have any bacteria you will only have ammonia. In the next stage you'll have both ammonia and nitrites and when the tank is fully cylced you should only have nitrates and no nitrites or ammonia.

Now the easiest way to deal with the problem would be to get a filter or filter media from an established tank. Do you think you could get that?

For the food: you'll need a bit more varietion. (personally I don't like bloodworms, because they are usually floating everywhere and get easily stuck in the filtratration). Feed also white fish (small whole fish like e.g. smelt or fish fillet ), mussels, squid, krill,


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks.

I will go and get the appropriate test kits in the morning.

I am new to looking after fish so getting filter form an established tank is a bit tricky (impossible).

I have now come to learn that some pet shop owners are better than others; they told me a week would be fine. I also asked them if they sold any colored/dim fluorescents as my little reds didn't like the light. She told me to pour a cup of tea in... I put colored paper on the splash guard instead, and deiced not to go back there.

Any way

Unfortunately I will now have to cycle the tank with the fish in, I have no where else to put them. Should I carry on with the daily 10% water change? Should I stop and monitor the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates levels? What do I do while cycling?...

As for food I have whole frozen Lance fish and Gamma shrimp too, I was sticking to blood worm as I heard it helps the coloring as they grow.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Oh, don't worry, it's probably the most common mistake made when people keep fish. It's sad though that LFS/LPS don't give you correct information.

for the light, don't worry (I'm not sure the tea is a good idea or not), but your fish will get used to the light eventually (although they will also be a bit more easily scared if the water quality isn't optimal).

I think the 10% daily water changes are a good idea. This way you can keep the toxic levels down, but you still will have enough to provide 'food' for the bacteria. 
Meanwhile be also very carefull when feeding. certainly don't overfeed (but still feed several time a day, just small quantities). And make sure nothing is left for longer than 15 minutes.

It's true that some foods may help coloration, but I think that good water quality and a varried healthy diet are even more important.

Good luck!

btw, what kind of filtration (media) do you have? keep in mind you shouldn't do filter maintenance while cycling. And once your tank is cylced, only clean the mechanical filtration media (like sponges,etc) and never touch the "biomedia"


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

Cheers for the advice.









I will vary their diet and carry on with the water changes, keeping an eye on the levels.
I wont worry about the cloudy water for now, I've no doubt it will sort it's self out in time.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

oh yea, forgot to answer the actual question, but the cloudy water is in fact a bacteria bloom. it will go away when the tank is cycled


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

You asked about filtration,

I have a Fluval 3 Plus filter which is a physical filter, I have rinsed the filter sponges a couple of times in tank water, as the LPS told me. (That is Local Pet Shop isn't it?), but will leave the filter alone from now on until fully cycled anyway .

As for biomedia? eh?


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

oh ow, I get the feeling the LPS gave you other bad advise...
I don't know the filter you mentioned, but according to what I found on google it won't be sufficient (it's an internal filter rated for tanks up to 34 gal/130 L, right?). What size is your tank?

Usually you have 2 kinds of filtration media. The sponges are mechanical. They basically trap floating particles from your water. biological filter media (like bioballs for example) are used to provide a space for bacteria to settle. so these media should never be cleaned. But indeed internal filter usually only have mechanical media and are not sufficient as the only filter (especially for a piranha tank).

and one more thing I think of now: if you have a nitrite reading, add some salt (just one teaspoon, pre-dissolved in some tank water will do). can be regular table salt


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

Tank is 100L (36X15X12) I know it's too small for my little reds, but plan on getting something bigger in the future. (There are some pics on my web site)

So I only have a mechanical filter and Ideally I need to get a biological filter too? or and external one that does both?

My nitrite was less than 0.3, which form what i gather is OK. If it goes above this then should I add salt?


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Your tank looks nice









hope you'll get a bigger tank soon, becasue these fish grow very quick

I would add an external (cannister) filter. When you get your new tank you can easily transfer it.

Yep, if the nitrite goes up (which it will if your tank is cycling), then you should add the salt (or actually you can do it now already it won't hurt)


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

Cheers for all advice.

When I got my tank I was going to put a couple of Oscars in, but did some reading up and decide tank wasn't big enough. I then went to the LPS and they told me that my tank was OK for up to 6 RBP's







..... So I bought 5 (£8 each).

Then I did some more research and realized tank was just big enough for 2, max. Any way very glad I got the P's.

When i go for test kits in morning (to a different LFS) I will check out the filters too


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

I got a new BluWave Filter, which is a physical and biological.

Ammonia levels are high about 4.0mg/l. nitrate, nitrite and PH are fine.

I have Ammo Lock I guess I should treat the water with it now? as the ammonia level is high.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Daniel Watson said:


> I got a new BluWave Filter, which is a physical and biological.
> 
> Ammonia levels are high about 4.0mg/l. nitrate, nitrite and PH are fine.
> 
> I have Ammo Lock I guess I should treat the water with it now? as the ammonia level is high.


The basic nitrogen cycle works like this.

Ammonia spike, ammonia levels will go from zero to the top of the chart, then taper back down to zero, nitrite will do the same, then your nitrate levels will start to go up.

Nitrate is controlled by water changes.

when cycled readings should look like this

ph..varies
ammonia...0 ppm
nitrite....0 ppm
nitrate 10ppm and up

I think you still have a few weeks left easily


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

Cheers, for the Info. My tank is getting more cloudy and the Ammonia level is now 5.0mg/l. 
Will my RBP's be OK?


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

Daniel Watson said:


> Cheers, for the Info. My tank is getting more cloudy and the Ammonia level is now 5.0mg/l.
> Will my RBP's be OK?


sounds like you're cycling. watch for distress in your fish, especially with them being so small. if they start looking like they're having trouble breathing (rapid gill movement, laying on their sides listless at the bottom, or floating to the top and hanging there) you may want to do a small water change to help ease the process along for them. no more than 10-25% because much more than that will -really- slow the cycling down. even with the change you are causing it to take a little break, but it may be better in the end for the health of your fish.

good luck!

edit: if you treat with ammo-lock the tank will never cycle. beneficial bacteria need to grow in the tank in order for the ammonia to nitrate cycle to take place. it is, imo, a temporary fix and one that you'll have to continuously keep up with unless you allow the tank to fully cycle. you may need to be prepared for possible loss of a fish or two depending on how healthy your fish were to start with.


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

There is rapid gill movement; I am doing a daily 10% water change. Should I change more, up to 20%.

My fish have been very active and always eaten well, up until this morning when I noticed rapid gill movement and not eating.

I wish I been given the right info from the LPs in the first place.


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

yep it sucks to see your fish suffering, but piranhas are strong fish, so they should make it.

did you add some salt already?
what's the nitrite reading?

try to keep the ammonia under 5 ppm. So maybe you could measure ammonia twice a day and do a 10% water change if it's not under 5 ppm.

I don't know ammo lock, so not sure what exactly it does, but I wouldn't use it.


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

not added salt yet, nitrite level is still very low betweel 0 and 0.3 ish

Ammo lock detoxifies ammonia, and i allready used it yesterday, I thought the ammonia level was getting very high and was worried. It had no affect when I retested it this morning in fact the ammonia appeared to go up 1.

EDIT: Just did a small water change fish spang to life. Gave them 30 minutes and added some food, they are ripping it up


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

ur tank is goin threw cyclin... go buy some Cycle and add it in

it should clear up


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## dan_wot (Mar 22, 2006)

Tank has cleared up now, not 100% but loads better







. Ammonia is still very high (5.0mg/l) and has not dropped, and now the nitrite level is very high (above 3.3mg/l). Nitrate level is about 25mg/l. Is this normal, I expected ammonia to start dropping when nitrite started to go up, but it didn't. Now they are both top of the chart and nitrate level is creeping up. Is this normal?

The little reds are eating well and look happy enough though.

I still haven't added any salt, should i do this now?


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## Piraya33 (May 26, 2005)

Get a product called Proquatics Water Clarifier. Add 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water and wait 24 hours. This is the best stuff I have ever tried. You can find it at PetSmart for like $5 or so. Good luck!


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Daniel Watson said:


> Get a product called Proquatics Water Clarifier. Add 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water and wait 24 hours. This is the best stuff I have ever tried. You can find it at PetSmart for like $5 or so. Good luck!


I don't think any product is necesary, he just needs to get his tank cycled


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