# Top Ten Revolutionaries



## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

who would be on your list!?

1. Che Ernesto Guevara
2. Karl Marx
3. Huey Newton
4. Mao Tse-Tung
5. Thom Paine
6. Malcom X
7. Martin Luther King
8. VI Lenin
9. Mahatma Ghandi
10. Chinese Man in Beijing's Tiananmen Square 









okay, maybe not so much of a big impact for number 10, but he gets mad props from me.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

1. George Washington

How do you figure putting MX above MLK?!!?


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

consider everything 5-9 in no particular order, its just too hard, but the rest are in place.

some more

Stalin
George Washington
The Wright Brothers
Linus Torvalds
Hitler (he did start the biggest war ever, over 59million died.)
The Kennedy's
Emiliano Zapata
Harriet Tubman


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## burna (Feb 10, 2004)

ME in 5-10 years


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

> IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE


wtf??? at least if your going to add to the post make it understandable you wannabe mc


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## Puma (Jan 27, 2004)

i would also put mlk before mx - while both were extremely noble in their endeavors, i dont agree with the violence that mx eventually deemed acceptable to fullfill his cause.

gandhi is a good one also, but i see you have already selected him.

just for giggles, it is "gandhi" not "ghandi" . ghandi is a western misspelling of his name.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2004)

Martin Luther, founder of the protestant religon movement.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

Einstein


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## jackburton (Nov 25, 2003)

bin laden


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

> bin laden


If you don't mind me saying so, you're an idiot. Do you have any idea how many senseless deaths this man is responsible for?


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## jackburton (Nov 25, 2003)

er iam not a sense less idiot thanks iam just putting a name down i dont like him or anything they stand for but hes a revolutionist


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

cooldudectd said:


> > bin laden
> 
> 
> If you don't mind me saying so, you're an idiot. Do you have any idea how many senseless deaths this man is responsible for?


 Bullshit: the man is more revolutionary than most people will ever be - he's responsable for a completely new world order because 9/11 was a true turning point in recent history.
Revolutionary can be one way or the other - it's not just the good that are, unfortunately...

Why didn't you start weeping when Drew posted the names of Hitler or Stalin? Those two have possibly more than 100,000,000 deaths on their counter, so don't start about a small peanut like Bin Laden (just because he happened to destroy the WTC...)

If anyone should be added because of the good things he has done, it should be Nelson Mandela - there's few people that are as inspiring as he is, IMO...

Furthermore, you can add the following people to the list:
- Bill Gates (no matter how much you hate him, you can't deny his impact on the world)
- Henry Ford (what would the world be without the assembly line?)
- Some of the early Greek philosophers (they invented the concept democracy)

- Basically, all inventors of world-changing devices or ideas/thoughts...


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> cooldudectd said:
> 
> 
> > > bin laden
> ...


The difference between Hitler and Osama Bin Laden is Hitler started a world war. Tens of millions of people died, counturies were conquered, borders were changed, policies were changed, new countries were created.

Bin Laden is just a terrorist. He organized some groups that set off car bombs and hijacked airplanes that flew into buildings. Besides making some Muslims (and some Europeans) very happy with the death and destruction he caused, what has he actually accomplished?

All I see are some very sad families who lost their spouse or child and increased security at the airport.

The fact that the Taliban of Afganistan was toppled as was the thugocracy of Iraq I will attribute to Geoorge W. Bush, a true revolutionary.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> - Some of the early Greek philosophers (they invented the concept democracy)


 Wasnt that the Romans?

I always get confused between greeks and romans so probably worng! Anyway, both did a whole lot of good for the world, Romans invented flushing toilets, and then they were forgotten about!


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

my neighbours went to cuba for vacation and they brought me back a che shirt, and a some cuban cigars....


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> The difference between Hitler and Osama Bin Laden is Hitler started a world war. Tens of millions of people died, counturies were conquered, borders were changed, policies were changed, new countries were created.
> 
> Bin Laden is just a terrorist. He organized some groups that set off car bombs and hijacked airplanes that flew into buildings. Besides making some Muslims (and some Europeans) very happy with the death and destruction he caused, what has he actually accomplished?
> 
> ...


 He revolutionised the way a country secures itself from terrorists, we are a lot more careful these days than before 9/11.

If he hadnt crashed those planes into the twin towers then someone else could of come along to do something a lot worse, but now they will find it a lot harder!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > cooldudectd said:
> ...


 I just mentioned mentioned as a reference (crying about calling Bin Laden a revolutionary, and not when Stalin or Hitler were named that), and used both to make my point.

I still think Bin laden is a revolutionary: terrorism is of all ages, but since 9/11, we live in a different world, increasingly polarized between the western (so-called free) world, and the Islamic world. Of course, those differences came into existance earlier, and also surfaced from time to time, but with Bin Laden, radical Islam for the first time has a common, global spiritual leader, wheter an activist is from France, Indonesia, the Middle east, or the US. And once he's dead, he'll be a martyr for millions.
Fundamentalist Islam never before was as threatening to common people, like you and me as it is now.

Imo., the war against terror is the new cold war, and will last for years at least (since you can't eradicate terrorism with counter-violence) - it's just not cold anymore, and Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are a major factor in that development...

CraigStables: it was the Greek (the came before the Romans): I'm not 100% sure, but I think people like Aristotle, Soctrates and mostly Plato wrote down the fundaments of modern democracy...


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

> what has he actually accomplished?


he has the changed the way that everybody in this world lives,thinks and see's..


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

that;s the name he is known as, IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE. if you haven't heard his stuff you should. he's got quite the perspective


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I also feel that Albert Edison was a great revolutionary.... along with Abraham Lincoln.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

eric the red

coloumbus

and any other exploerers


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## ViBE (Jul 22, 2003)

Jesus.

Osama

Saddam


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

ViBE said:


> Saddam


 Saddam didnt do much.

Yassar Arafat is way more of a revolutionary in the Muslim arena.

Werner Von Braun is a revolutionary.


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## FuZZy (Apr 18, 2003)

I'm surprised nobody has said Napolean


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

I did a Essay ( over 8 pages) on revolutionists and their impacts on society and history. My icon was Che Guevara for a while. He was a revolutionist but under Fidels power. He was just more of a superficial symbol imo. Stalin is up there. Hitler is also. Do not forget caesar, Jesus, Mao is definitely a revolutionist.. Lenin was borderline. Its almost as we rank revolutionists on how many casualties occured while they were in reign. I think the order would be Hitler , Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot I think sorry I'm just going off the top of my head, Mussolini, Kim Jong 2,Kim sung has more then Saddam, Mussolini, Milosevic, Ho chi Minh..Those are the dictators I think that are revolutionists. Einstein is a very big revolutionist.. He started Nuclear revolution. Bill Gates..Da Vinci..


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

CraigStables said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > - Some of the early Greek philosophers (they invented the concept democracy)
> ...


It was the Romans.

To me the greatest revultionaries would be Julius Ceasar and Jesus.
1)Jesus.....do I have to explain?

2)Without Ceasar, none would know what an empire is or an emperor. Ceasar and his nephew Octavian almost single handedly(I say singlehandedly because Octaviana followed through on his uncle's plans) shaped the political world and military worlds....

3)But above Gandhi would have to be some of the Founding Fathers. Washington started history's greatest power(argue all you want, we revolutinized everything moreso than the Romans) Franklin and Edison....where would the scientific community be without their inquistive natures? Jefferson was a quite intelligent strategist and John Hancock for takin a bold step and signing first and largest

4)I think Gandhi would be next...he revived the practice of non violent protest(after Jesus) MLK followed his teachings with his own opinions though, so in a sense Gandhi was the mentor of all these people....

5)Hitler defintely revolutionized the world.....his anti semitic views still reverberate today.

6)Oh and I would say PLato, Aristotle, and all them.

7)Copernicus defintely.

Oh and Shakespeare....he was possibly the greatest gift to literarture as we know it.

.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

stalin
jesus
hitler
henry ford
werner von baurd
smith and wession
tupac
princess diana
james bond
the kennedys

those are not in order but i think they have changed the world


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Did you actually just say James f*cking Bond?!

Please exit this intellectual discussion right now.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

wow... I really gave lu too much credit, hes far dumber then I thought.


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## amanpkeeper (Dec 7, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> And once he's dead, he'll be a martyr for millions.
> Fundamentalist Islam never before was as threatening to common people, like you and me as it is now.
> 
> Imo., the war against terror is the new cold war, and will last for years at least (since you can't eradicate terrorism with counter-violence) - it's just not cold anymore, and Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are a major factor in that development...


 Sounds like your giving osama's eulogy. Counter violence doesnt stop terrorism? Although it will never completely stop it, what do you suggest the world does, sit back and let them plan? You attack them because it makes them spend their resources elsewhere, we all know what happens when the world sits back and lets them think of a way to kill the most infidels. As for him becoming a martyr, I cant wait because then he will be spending an eternity in hell.


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## TimmyTeam (Jun 20, 2003)

whos stalin ?


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

> whos stalin ?


I REALLY hope that you're not serious.

Right now I'm going to take your last post as a joke.


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

Whose stalin? Lu and him should hang out sometime.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> stalin
> jesus
> hitler
> henry ford
> ...


tupac..









james bond









you forgot to add starbucks,dunkin donuts,round table(cause there open 24 hours):laugh:


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Tupac coulve been.....he really was focused on trying to help give blacks a more positive image and as well as help poor urban communities...that's why even though I live on th eeast coast I have to have a lot of respect for Tupac...moreso than Biggie.


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## kdblove_99 (Jul 17, 2003)

cooldudectd said:


> > bin laden
> 
> 
> If you don't mind me saying so, you're an idiot. Do you have any idea how many senseless deaths this man is responsible for?


 No Follow-up from cooldude on this one?

After calling someone an idiot, When IMO they put a very Valid person on there.


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## TimmyTeam (Jun 20, 2003)

cooldudectd said:


> > whos stalin ?
> 
> 
> I REALLY hope that you're not serious.
> ...


 i asked a simple question...i dont know who someone is so i ask a simple question and someone says dumb stuff like this ? ? ?

can u just tell me who he/she is ?


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

He is a russian czar or so to say who ruled from 1919 till ww2. Took power from lenin, killed trotsky, and killed over 4 million of his own people in the great purge which was an extreme case of paranoia and almost cost him the war due to him killing high ranked officers


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

timmyshultis said:


> cooldudectd said:
> 
> 
> > > whos stalin ?
> ...


 i believe stalin was like the dictator of the USSR (russia) and help helped us i think during WW2 but then he went evil again, i dont know to much on him

i think that james bond is a more of a well known person but he did make spy movies much better


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2004)

InIndiana said:


> He is a russian czar or so to say who ruled from 1919 till ww2. Took power from lenin, killed trotsky, and killed over 4 million of his own people in the great purge which was an extreme case of paranoia and almost cost him the war due to him killing high ranked officers


That's more information than Sweet Lu's last book report.









Here's a link I found: Dictator Joseph Stalin


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Joan of arc
Einstein
Hitler
Stalin
the wright brothers
gandhi
Fredrick Douglass
Bloody Mary
Indians
Galileo
here is my list


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## TimmyTeam (Jun 20, 2003)

aiight thanks boyz


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

amanpkeeper said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > And once he's dead, he'll be a martyr for millions.
> ...


 I'm not saying war on terror doesn't change things, but it's only short-term.
Think about this: how many innocent civilians have been killed in the war against terror since 9/11? Thousands and thousands: even if a small minority of those chose to take up arms against the US, it's enough to keep a neverending cycle of war and terrorism alive...
The people that lost their entire family, or even one single relative, don't give a damn about US retorics: they just want to know why their loved ones were killed, possibly even wanting to seek revenge (which is taking up arms...)

In order to solve problems, guns won't be a permanent solution: education is, as well as installment of a stable democratic government (which, I admit, sometimes needs to be installed with force), good infrastructure, prospects for the people in poor area's....
Take these things away, and you'll take the roots of terrorism away. War will never achieve that - war is just a way to keep the endless cycle of terror and counter-terror alive, only this time on a global scale (and which may be quite beneficial to certain Western governments, since it seems to give them an excuse to do whatever they damn well please...)


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## kopid_03 (Mar 3, 2004)

who is douglass glass?


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

I think hes a photographer? I am probably wrong


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Frederick Douglass stood at the podium, trembling with nervousness. Before him sat abolitionists who had travelled to the Massachusetts island of Nantucket. Only 23 years old at the time, Douglass overcame his nervousness and gave a stirring, eloquent speech about his life as a slave. Douglass would continue to give speeches for the rest of his life and would become a leading spokesperson for the abolition of slavery and for racial equality.

The son of a slave woman and an unknown white man, "Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey" was born in February of 1818 on Maryland's eastern shore. He spent his early years with his grandparents and with an aunt, seeing his mother only four or five times before her death when he was seven. (All Douglass knew of his father was that he was white.) During this time he was exposed to the degradations of slavery, witnessing firsthand brutal whippings and spending much time cold and hungry. When he was eight he was sent to Baltimore to live with a ship carpenter named Hugh Auld. There he learned to read and first heard the words abolition and abolitionists. "Going to live at Baltimore," Douglass would later say, "laid the foundation, and opened the gateway, to all my subsequent prosperity."

Douglass spent seven relatively comfortable years in Baltimore before being sent back to the country, where he was hired out to a farm run by a notoriously brutal "slavebreaker" named Edward Covey. And the treatment he received was indeed brutal. Whipped daily and barely fed, Douglass was "broken in body, soul, and spirit."

On January 1, 1836, Douglass made a resolution that he would be free by the end of the year. He planned an escape. But early in April he was jailed after his plan was discovered. Two years later, while living in Baltimore and working at a shipyard, Douglass would finally realize his dream: he fled the city on September 3, 1838. Travelling by train, then steamboat, then train, he arrived in New York City the following day. Several weeks later he had settled in New Bedford, Massachusetts, living with his newlywed bride (whom he met in Baltimore and married in New York) under his new name, Frederick Douglass.

Always striving to educate himself, Douglass continued his reading. He joined various organizations in New Bedford, including a black church. He attended Abolitionists' meetings. He subscribed to William Lloyd Garrison's weekly journal, the Liberator. In 1841, he saw Garrison speak at the Bristol Anti-Slavery Society's annual meeting. Douglass was inspired by the speaker, later stating, "no face and form ever impressed me with such sentiments [the hatred of slavery] as did those of William Lloyd Garrison." Garrison, too, was impressed with Douglass, mentioning him in the Liberator. Several days later Douglass gave his speech at the Massachusetts Anti-Slavery Society's annual convention in Nantucket-- the speech described at the top of this page. Of the speech, one correspondent reported, "Flinty hearts were pierced, and cold ones melted by his eloquence." Before leaving the island, Douglass was asked to become a lecturer for the Society for three years. It was the launch of a career that would continue throughout Douglass' long life.

Despite apprehensions that the information might endanger his freedom, Douglass published his autobiography, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, Written By Himself. The year was 1845. Three years later, after a speaking tour of England, Ireland, and Scotland, Douglass published the first issue of the North Star, a four-page weekly, out of Rochester, New York.

Ever since he first met Garrison in 1841, the white abolitionist leader had been Douglass' mentor. But the views of Garrison and Douglass ultimately diverged. Garrison represented the radical end of the abolitionist spectrum. He denounced churches, political parties, even voting. He believed in the dissolution (break up) of the Union. He also believed that the U.S. Constitution was a pro-slavery document. After his tour of Europe and the establishment of his paper, Douglass' views began to change; he was becoming more of an independent thinker, more pragmatic. In 1851 Douglass announced at a meeting in Syracuse, New York, that he did not assume the Constitution was a pro-slavery document, and that it could even "be wielded in behalf of emancipation," especially where the federal government had exclusive jurisdiction. Douglass also did not advocate the dissolution of the Union, since it would isolate slaves in the South. This led to a bitter dispute between Garrison and Douglass that, despite the efforts of others such as Harriet Beecher Stowe to reconcile the two, would last into the Civil War.

Frederick Douglass would continue his active involvement to better the lives of African Americans. He conferred with Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War and recruited northern blacks for the Union Army. After the War he fought for the rights of women and African Americans alike.

Copyright: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p1539.html


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

bloody mary?


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## amanpkeeper (Dec 7, 2003)

a well informed reply psrotten. Im glad too see a individual who is informed. If know else reads/understands this reply it dids its good.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Mother Teresa


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Drew said:


> bloody mary?


 Queen Mary London, lol bloody mary is her knickname. She burned people at the stake and bathed in virgin blood. Sorry I am bad with names with history.

The fear that overcame Mary after the Wyatt rebellion led to the burning of the Protestants. Up until that time she had appeared lenient and fair but her attitude changed completely when she sensed that she could never feel completely safe until all heretics were shown the outcome of disobedience. The majority of the populace had changed religion under the assumption that it was their duty to do as their sovereign told them. But they had great respect for those who were willing to be martyrs and did not see them on the road to Hell as Mary did, but on the road to Heaven. They lined the roads as the condemned made their way to the stake and asked their blessing. Instead of showing the people the error of heresy it turned them into supporters of the heretics and many began to speak out against the burnings. Those who showed sympathy to the heretics were also to be arrested. New Protestant leaders began to put their own ideas about the rights of sovereigns in their pamphlets and forwarded the concept that if a ruler was wicked it was the duty of the people to resist.

http://home.earthlink.net/~elisale/queenmary.html


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

I thought Elizabeth Bathory bathed in virgin blood?


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Yeah I thought it was Bloody Mary cause she was such a ruthless and brutal queen....the whole bathing in the blood is completly new to me....


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## ChosenOne22 (Nov 23, 2003)

well im just gonna name impacts from the top of my head...

BIN LADEN( i dont care for him but who ever said he didnt make an impact definately suck nuts)

HO CHI MINH(freed "indochina" from the c*ck sucking french bastards, which in some ways or another eventually started the vietnam war)

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR( u know his deal)

HITLER

MAO TSE-TUNG

GANDHI


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

Okay maybe I am getting the queens mixed up, I thought she bathed in the virgin blood hence another reason why she is known as that title. I don't feel like looking it up at the moment.


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

Yeah...You were..Queen Mary of 1553 reinstated mass and was nicknamed bloody mary because I "think" , this is just off the top of my memory, that she killed over 200 people for religious disputes.. Her last name is not London but Tudor. I haven't heard of the name Queen Mary London ever. Maybe thats just where she resided and they coined that her nickname..


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## BoomerSub (Jun 23, 2003)

What about Gavrilo Princip, who set in motion a chain of events that started World War I, which started WWII, which started various other conflicts. This guy is one ofthe reasons everything's as screwed up as it is.

-PK


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

Gavrilo Princip? i thought he just help start WW2


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

jack daniels and mr. anhiesr and mr. busch


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Future Palestinians!

Imagine you and your kid going through this on your land. Isreali soilders do this on a daily basis mind you.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> Gavrilo Princip? i thought he just help start WW2


 His assisnation was basically "the straw that broke the camel's back" and sort of cause a political snap eventually leading up to WW*1*


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Oh yeah and now I remember the two biggest in the HISTORY of the world.

The dude who discovered fire and the dude who invented the wheel....


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

Theres a fine line between Great minds and revolutionists Crazy.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

So couldn't the same be applied to the people who said Da Vinci, Edison and Einstein?

Hitler too, I mean he did know how to manipulate and control his people....


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

Good point. Einstein is a revolutionist because he started Nuclear uses. Edison? LightBulb and energy. Look at my icon. I am a big fan of Da Vinci. I think Da Vinci started a increase of interest in architecture and science which still reverberates today. His studies of Anatomy no doubt changed many things. Hitler was well..Hitler was a lot of things . Hitler's anti semitism is also prevalent today.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

InIndiana said:


> Good point. Einstein is a revolutionist because he started Nuclear uses. Edison? LightBulb and energy. Look at my icon. I am a big fan of Da Vinci. I think Da Vinci started a increase of interest in architecture and science which still reverberates today. His studies of Anatomy no doubt changed many things. Hitler was well..Hitler was a lot of things . Hitler's anti semitism is also prevalent today.


 imo- i think that hilter had many ideas cause his way of thinking was very different and plus i think he was isane and i think he just hid ideas that could have changed the world

also, when you think of it, everyone has changed the world, if you took out one person then the whole world would be slightly different


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## ChosenOne22 (Nov 23, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> InIndiana said:
> 
> 
> > Good point. Einstein is a revolutionist because he started Nuclear uses. Edison? LightBulb and energy. Look at my icon. I am a big fan of Da Vinci. I think Da Vinci started a increase of interest in architecture and science which still reverberates today. His studies of Anatomy no doubt changed many things. Hitler was well..Hitler was a lot of things . Hitler's anti semitism is also prevalent today.
> ...


 well thats true everyone has made some kind of impact but we are talking about the biggest impacts that actually change history


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## RBPFan (Dec 1, 2003)

jackburton said:


> er iam not a sense less idiot thanks iam just putting a name down i dont like him or anything they stand for but hes a revolutionist


 Go to france, tool.


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## RBPFan (Dec 1, 2003)

CraigStables said:


> Bullsnake said:
> 
> 
> > The difference between Hitler and Osama Bin Laden is Hitler started a world war. Tens of millions of people died, counturies were conquered, borders were changed, policies were changed, new countries were created.
> ...


 Ted Bundy made us lock our doors at night but he's not a revolutionary.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

many of the serial killers "could" be considered revolutionaries. They change the way people do things. Son of Sam made people scared to go out in NYC. Ted bundy, dahmer, berkowitz, Gacy, all made people more afraid to be out and about. So why wouldnt they be considered revolutionaries? If our definition is that a revolutionary is someone that does something to make people as a whole do things differently, then yeah, serial killers are revolutionaries, as is bin laden, hitler, castro etc.. I think the general consensus here is that people want revolutionaries named here to be known for good things, although you can't disregard the things bin laden has done and say that he did not impact the world. I mean how many times to you go through the day without reading or hearing the word terrorism.


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## RBPFan (Dec 1, 2003)

Well, now maybe the Spanish can see where we are comming from. Keep in mind that he's still out there man, if you are saying he has that big of an impact than you are only encouraging him, his organization, or even the way of getting what the baby wants. i'm not dumb enough to say that he is reading this, or anyone from his organization is reading this, but the point is, history is happening. If you think he is a great man fine. He is no Hitler though, Hitler stood up like a human and convinced a country to commit some of the worst crimes in history. He didn't hide, he wasn't a p*ssy. I doubt many people will agree with me but hey, it's America, you don't have to. (Here, where I am, it is America)


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

InIndiana said:


> Good point. Einstein is a revolutionist because he started Nuclear uses. Edison? LightBulb and energy. Look at my icon. I am a big fan of Da Vinci. I think Da Vinci started a increase of interest in architecture and science which still reverberates today. His studies of Anatomy no doubt changed many things. Hitler was well..Hitler was a lot of things . Hitler's anti semitism is also prevalent today.


 So does this mean I'm right??


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## InIndiana (Nov 6, 2003)

Nah it means you made a valid statement. Its just so hard to paint the line between great minds and revolutionists. Revolutionists will change history. Einstein changed it imo not for relativity theory but for the atomic bomb. That is one of the biggest revolutionists and his discovery could possibly seal our demise. Edison? Inventer, didn't really change anything. Advanced our technology but did he start a revolution? Nope. Da Vinci is a slight revolutionist. Anatomy , architecture and general science interests boosted since he started. Hes a border line. I can go all day on this and there will never be a defining line between great mind and revolutionist


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

no order, but

karl marks, adolf hitler, joseph stalin, muselini, christopher columbus, the first person to make fishtanks, more


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

InIndiana said:


> I can go all day on this and there will never be a defining line between great mind and revolutionist


 So, so, SO true.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

RBPFan said:


> Keep in mind that he's still out there man, if you are saying he has that big of an impact than you are only encouraging him, his organization, or even the way of getting what the baby wants.


 Do you really think that by killing Bin Laden the problem of terrorism is solved?
Terrorism isn't about Bin Laden or Al Qaeda, it's about how the world functions nowadays, the differences between poor and rich, developed and underdeveloped, about past wrongs that never have been corrected: basically, about the mass inequality in our presentday world - the West owning everything, deciding everything, doing whatever it pleases, without ever having to take up responsibility for what they are doing. And now, sad but true, the west pays the price for its past and presentday arrogance...

Bin Laden is merely the current face of terrorism, the spokesman, the cement that binds together dozens of more or less self-containing terrorist organisations which formed a global network: kill Bin Laden, and all seperate organisations/cells continue to operate as if nothing has happened. Besides that, in no-time a new leader will emerge, do take up the same role as Bin laden has now...


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

columbus was a bitch and raped the indian people, you shouldn't celebrate columbus day, he didn't even discover america somebody else did I forget whom.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Amerigo Vespucci.

And I don't know about Columbus raping the indian people....my ass feels fine.


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