# $3.52/gallon?



## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

I used the car a couple times lately in the snow, so I went out this morning to get gas for the first time this year, and it was $3.52/gallon. I turned around and came home. Do you guys really pay that much? How much do you guys spend on gas a month?


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

yep just about. believe last i saw gas prices around me were about 3.10 a gallon. 
i heard on talk radio yesterday somewhere in CA gas was going for 4.30 a gallon. yikes!


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## vinniegambini (Feb 28, 2003)

Yea and at President Bush's last news conference a reporter had commented that gas would be over $4 a gallon and he had no clue on anything about that. DUMBASS! The price of gas around me is $3.29 and I think it will top off around $4.25 during the summer where I live in MD.


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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

i pay approx $280 a month it f*cking insane

i need to get me a 4 cyl beater to go back and forth from work

it would pay for itself in the long run lol


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Well, the president hasn't had to buy gas for at least 7 years, probably longer.

$4.25 would be funny.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i just try not to pay attention to the price... i pull up to the pump, swipe my card and fill


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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

maddyfish said:


> Well, the president hasn't had to buy gas for at least 7 years, probably longer.
> 
> $4.25 would be funny.


no it wont be funny at ALL!!

i may have to try to find a job closer to my house instead of a 50 mile round trip commute

i like where i work and love my house but its getting insane

i may buy a motorcycle this summer just for the mpg!!!!


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Crap I've been paying $3.40 a gallon for awhile, premium every fill up. IS sucks with gas mileage, its a love hate relationship with my car. Love the car, hate to give it gas.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Not that much; I fill up about once a month since I live within walking distance of work


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Not a big deal to me....

I take the subway and bus to work and when I worked over 45 miles away, I would car pool.

But no $4.50 a gallon is not funny for those of us who like to get out of the house.


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

$4.13 a gallon in canada is what we are paying when you work out the math

3.79 litres are in 1 gallon

we are paying $1.09 per litre for regular

premuim is $1.20 a litre so it looks like i wont be taking my Javelin to many car shows this summer.


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## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

jmax611 said:


> Well, the president hasn't had to buy gas for at least 7 years, probably longer.
> 
> $4.25 would be funny.


no it wont be funny at ALL!!

i may have to try to find a job closer to my house instead of a 50 mile round trip commute

i like where i work and love my house but its getting insane

i may buy a motorcycle this summer just for the mpg!!!!
[/quote]

I drive 62 miles one way


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

lest see 1 gallon, that's 4 liters, we pay about or over 2 bucks a litre. 4x2 is 8 bucks..

8+ a gallon.. now you know you need to stfu, and don't think its because we don't have any oil, we're about the 4th largest exporters in the world.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

I really dont worry much about my gas expenses since its all under a corporate card. But it just shocks me to see how much I would have paid if gas was on my own tab.


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## skubasteve! (Feb 14, 2007)

b_ack51 said:


> Crap I've been paying $3.40 a gallon for awhile, premium every fill up. IS sucks with gas mileage, its a love hate relationship with my car. Love the car, hate to give it gas.


Same here, I just filled up half my Jeep's tank with premium and it was $3.49 for premium and $3.29 for regular. Just a few less red bulls for me a week and Im covered.


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## lament configuration (Jun 22, 2003)

steve you got to fill up at road ranger by the east side walmart, i drove by this morning and they are still at 3.19 for regular.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> I used the car a couple times lately in the snow, so I went out this morning to get gas for the first time this year, and it was $3.52/gallon. I turned around and came home. Do you guys really pay that much? How much do you guys spend on gas a month?


I pay 3.19 for 93 octane.


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## kevinw424 (May 28, 2007)

I'm paying $3.49 a gal for premium and I get anywhere from 7-10 MPG. I datalogged for 3 months to see what my average gas mileage was and I wish I didnt. I drive about 50miles round trip to work as well. Time to look for something closer. Anyone hiring around Virginia or DC??


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I spend approx. $300 a month on gas.
It's a bitch, but if ya want the vehicle to go down the road, ya have no choice really.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


Good-

Stay out of here....


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## swack (May 29, 2007)

As a grad student in petroleum economics, expect the crude oil price to become close to 130 a barrel by the end of a april. This is the cheapest time of the year to produce gasoline, its only going to get worse folks. and PS Lowporka....It has little to nothing to do with liberals not allowing us to drill in alaska. The fact of the matter is that the oil in alaska is not economically viable to drill right now. Its down too far and would cost an outrageous sum of money to drill. THe reason the gulf states have all the oil is because it is close to the surface and economically viable to get. Additionally, no extensive seismic studies have been commisioned on the anwar province to determine what kind of oil there is. It could easily just be oil sands, as thick as asphalt and expensive as hell to make into a refined product like gasoline. If you want someone to blame, blame ourselves for being a inelastic society in terms of demand of energy. Americans start using 1% less of refined oil products and hte price will tank. Previously nearly all oil contracts were denominated in US funds, however due to the declining strength of the dollar many are no being denominated in Euros. Having oil contracts denominated in dollars was a distinct advantage. another thing, most oil producing countries don't want the price of oil this high, they prefer it between 65-85$ a barell. When it gets as high as it is now (around 104), you start gettting an awful lot of people clamoring for alternative forms of energy.

/end rant


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## FishermanCanada (Feb 12, 2007)

piranha_guy_dan said:


> $4.13 a gallon in canada is what we are paying when you work out the math
> 
> 3.79 litres are in 1 gallon
> 
> ...


Dan canada is on the imperial gallon. approx 5 litres to a canadian gallon. i paid a 1.09 canadian for a litre of gas. so 5 x 1.09= 5.45 a gallon.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Lowporkwa said:


> Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


Yes, everything's the liberals' fault - I mean look at how outrageously expensive gas prices were while Clinton was in the office. Thank god Bush rectified that problem.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

gas averages between 3.40-3.90 around my area. now that i have a bike a half tank has lasted me a week (including riding around the valley), that's approximately 1.5 gallons. but my truck...i use roughly a half-tank a week, sometimes less. $30 = half tank for me.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

C0Rey said:


> Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


we shouldnt drill in alaska.

i take the train to work, my drive to the train station is a half mile. but i think around here its like 2.97 per gallon.
but for those of you who get premium, i hate to say it, but your wasting your money. unless you drive a racecar, the higher octane does almost nothing except make you think your babying your car. Regular gas has the same detergent in it as premium, so the amount of gunk built up is the same. Most modern cars are designed to run on 87-89 octane gas. giving it anything higher is basically pointless.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

maddyfish said:


> I used the car a couple times lately in the snow, so I went out this morning to get gas for the first time this year, and it was $3.52/gallon. *I turned around and came home.* Do you guys really pay that much? How much do you guys spend on gas a month?


Must be nice to have that option. "Mom, Dad! The car needs gas and could you get me some more Doritos?"
















Here in the real world it's up to $3.49 for premium, $43.00 to fill the tank.


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## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

Where Im from its up to $3.69 for supreme.

Swack, petroleum economics major? Well whoever told you that it was too expensive or too difficult to drill in Alaska needs to get their facts straight. FYI, there are already oil pipe lines in Alaska ready to be used. We just havent used it yet for the simple fact that the US government is trying to suck all the oil out of the middle east and the rest of the surrounding countries before we tap into Alaska. Its almost like when your a kid and you want to eat everyone elses cookies before you eat your own, same principal. Read Energy Non-Crisis by Lindsey Williams he tells a lot about the Alaska pipelines as he was there while they were being built back in the 70's.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

b_ack51 said:


> Crap I've been paying $3.40 a gallon for awhile, premium every fill up. IS sucks with gas mileage, its a love hate relationship with my car. Love the car, hate to give it gas.


Same here!
My Truck takes 91 octane. I alternate sometimes with Premium and regular.

Luckily Im getting acompany car soon and they pay for gas which I travel for work and SOME personal.
My truck cost nearly $100.00 to fill. I try not to drive it anymore. I let my wife take it to work which is only about 10 miles away. I take her Ford Escape. MUCH better on gas!


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## swack (May 29, 2007)

i was referring specifically to the nationa preserves, the cause of current debate. The oil that has been drilled in alaska has been drilled because it makes sense to, its cheap. While you are correct about the middle eastern oil cookie theory the fact of the matter is we only have about 30-40 years left of reserves at current levels. even if there happened to be an elephant field in alaska, we would simply suck it dry in 18-24 months at current usage rates.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> Well, the president hasn't had to buy gas for at least 7 years, probably longer.
> 
> $4.25 would be funny.


you guys DO understand the president has nothing to do with gas prices correct? perhaps if we could drill in alaska like hes proposed gas would drop dramatically. actually, thats funny, i guess in light of acknowledging that tree huggers are to blame. hmm


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

swack said:


> i was referring specifically to the nationa preserves, the cause of current debate. The oil that has been drilled in alaska has been drilled because it makes sense to, its cheap. While you are correct about the middle eastern oil cookie theory the fact of the matter is we only have about 30-40 years left of reserves at current levels. * even if there happened to be an elephant field in alaska, we would simply suck it dry in 18-24 months at current usage rates.*


Where did you hear that?

Alaska has enough oil here to supply for many years-But there is a reason why we have not put in a refinery here


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

what reason is that AK?


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## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

swack said:


> i was referring specifically to the nationa preserves, the cause of current debate. The oil that has been drilled in alaska has been drilled because it makes sense to, its cheap. While you are correct about the middle eastern oil cookie theory the fact of the matter is we only have about 30-40 years left of reserves at current levels. *even if there happened to be an elephant field in alaska, we would simply suck it dry in 18-24 months at current usage rates.*


Alaska is sitting on the largest oil reserve in the world, larger than the middle east. There is no way that we would suck it dry in 2 years.

All this oil national preserve crap that is being portrayed in the media is about money and power. The oil companies are portraying like there is a shortage and like everything else thats in demand with limited supply the price goes up. We drain all the foreign countries of their oil, they would have to "bow down" to the US to use our resources when we are the only ones that have oil left. We are slowly taking away the competition.


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## CAPONE (May 18, 2006)

The gas price now is nothing compared to what it is suppose to be in the summer around 4.20 a gallon


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## 8o8P (Jan 13, 2007)

M0RpH said:


> what reason is that AK?


The reason is... why should we? Seriously. We can go out and cause war in the Middle East and take control of their oil fields. Why do you think the Iraqis started lighting their oil fields on fire when we invaded Iraq. Its pretty much like I said earlier, why use ours, when we can use theirs. Then add in the fact that we can charge premium prices because we are going to tell everyone through the media that we are going through a energy/oil crisis. Think of all the money the oil companies would lose if they were to flood the market right now by opening the Alaskan pipeline. Chances are that price for gas could drop to a dollar a gallon if they opened up the pipeline.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

M0RpH said:


> what reason is that AK?


8o8P-has hit pretty much on the basics that I know of.......I hear of all kinds of different things that play a role in this-----Being that I have the only cigar lounge(indoor) around up here in Anchorage----I get to deal with alot of the oil people up here......But in all honesty man..It's a bigger debate than I ever want to get into.....


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## swack (May 29, 2007)

an elephant field is classified as a large field typically with more than 5 billion barells of oil, they are now becoming few and far between. at current usage estimates from the department of energy, the world uses around 20 million barells a day. You do the math, less than two years to suck up a gigantic find like that. The most common mistake is assuming that oil operates like other thingsin the market. It doesn't. There are currently no economic formulas that describe the price of oil. Another mistake is assuming that the oil that we pump into our cars is from the middle east...its not at all. It's simply to expensive to ship accross an ocean like that, most of our oil comes from canada, us, venezula and various other countries in our continent. They just dictate the prices via OPEC and the fact that at the current time, they are the most organized.


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## mike123 (Jul 17, 2006)

its just over $3.00 in MA


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Lowporkwa said:


> Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


thats what all teh republicans say but im sure it has nothing to do with the fact that bush and pals are buddies with the saudies and opec has a bigger influence on our prices then the number of refieries.. 
not to mention that we relyl wouldnt need more refieneriesif the industry would get all of the existing ones up to code and running, but to them its not porfitable, why should they spend a small portion of the record profits they are making to lower the price and reduce there profits? they dont care about the effect it has on the common joe there making record profit..


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

$3.52 would be nice, since I drive a diesel I don't see me getting that price any time soon.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

it's $1.19 per litre up here right now. luckily my truck is pretty good on gas, so i only have to fill up 2 or 3 times a month. costs about 80$ per refill.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

Nick G said:


> Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


we shouldnt drill in alaska.

i take the train to work, my drive to the train station is a half mile. but i think around here its like 2.97 per gallon.
but for those of you who get premium, i hate to say it, but your wasting your money. unless you drive a racecar, the higher octane does almost nothing except make you think your babying your car. Regular gas has the same detergent in it as premium, so the amount of gunk built up is the same. Most modern cars are designed to run on 87-89 octane gas. giving it anything higher is basically pointless.
[/quote]

i think we do...


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

The concept of an internal combustion engine is way obsolete.
It's 100 year old technology.

Thing is, if we switched over to a more economical, earth-friendly means, it would upset the world's economic system to the point of total chaos.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Piranha_man said:


> The concept of an internal combustion engine is way obsolete.
> It's 100 year old technology.
> 
> Thing is, if we switched over to a more economical, earth-friendly means, it would upset the world's economic system to the point of total chaos.


while i agree, i would caution against using the word "obsolete"


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

Piranha_man said:


> The concept of an internal combustion engine is way obsolete.
> It's 100 year old technology.
> 
> Thing is, if we switched over to a more economical, earth-friendly means, it would upset the world's economic system to the point of total chaos.


while i agree, i would caution against using the word "obsolete"

oops haha


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## eddyhead (Nov 6, 2007)

swack said:


> an elephant field is classified as a large field typically with more than 5 billion barells of oil, they are now becoming few and far between. at current usage estimates from the department of energy, the world uses around 20 million barells a day. You do the math, less than two years to suck up a gigantic find like that.


the world?

forget the world...if oil else where runs out and all we have is left is whats is up there in alaska. I dont think were going to be worried about supplying the world with oil...maybe canada/enlgand. Just since their such close allies. Were smart to save it.. its very much like that cookie theory...Why use our own...when we can use others let theirs run out then save ours to our self.

also i dont know how much this is effecting but Swack you said your an econ student...well were not the only ones consumming oil in the world there are other countrys buying this oil.....mainly china and their growing economy is demanding more and more oil...so a simple supply and demand curve can show why the price is going up...OPEC if they dont allow more supply...and you have a rightward shift in your demand..what has to happen to go back to equilibrium? a rise in *PRICE* that IMO is one of the main reasons for the increase

Corey...as far as your math thing im not really sure what that is? makes no sense to me..please explain further...also we are 3rd in Oil Production behing Russia and Saudi Arabia we dont really export to anyone...in fact about 45% of our oil croms from our self and the rest comes from various countries.

Also another thing to think about..dont think BP and Shell and other places are just giving us gas for free...theres profit in there to. I cant find it right now...But later today i will post proft % for the major oil companys....i know a company needs to make money to survive but for an example Abercrombie profit a year is 64% which means for the $100 jeans they sell they are making $64...a little unreasonable if you ask me!


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## pyrokingbrand (Nov 30, 2004)

Its 3.89 for diesal here. Gold reached $1000 bucks an oz. this morning, people are starting to freak. The dollar is falling

hardcore. Good Luck to all in the coming months! Anyone else notice that eggs doubled in price the last month and a half??


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## eddyhead (Nov 6, 2007)

As promised all this information is comming from www.hoovers.com best business website out there, it tells you everything about every business.

*Shell*
1-year Sales Growth: 2552.1%
2007 sales: 3.2 Billion
Profit: Did not post

*BP*
1-year Sales Growth: 1,166,073.8%
2005 Sales: $245,486 Million
2005 Gross Profit: $57,174 Million (23%)
2005 Operating Income: $32,182 Million (13%)
2005 Total Net Income: $19,642 Million (8%)

Here is the link for more information

http://premium.hoovers.com/subscribe/co/fi...fhxxkttrffctjjs

All im saying is maybe if they werent making 42% Gross Profit like Exxon is, maybe it would save us some on Gas, even if they dropped down to 30% profit their still making a hell of alot of money


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## eddyhead (Nov 6, 2007)

pyrokingbrand said:


> Its 3.89 for diesal here. Gold reached $1000 bucks an oz. this morning, people are starting to freak. The dollar is falling
> 
> hardcore. Good Luck to all in the coming months! Anyone else notice that eggs doubled in price the last month and a half??


dont know what all that ment, but if the US economy fell....the WORLDS ECONOMY would fall!!! and you cant dispute that!, so if i were other countryies espically of that like China, and other asian countries that make all our toys and stuff...they should be wanting to help us...even you Cnadians if the US economically went down, you would be right with us


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

> All im saying is maybe if they werent making 42% Gross Profit like Exxon is, maybe it would save us some on Gas, even if they dropped down to 30% profit their still making a hell of alot of money


Ah yes Comrade! Lets PUNISH A COMPANY FOR MAKING MONEY. What a novel Concept. Im glad we live in a Socialist country...NOT.


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## eddyhead (Nov 6, 2007)

Lowporkwa said:


> > All im saying is maybe if they werent making 42% Gross Profit like Exxon is, maybe it would save us some on Gas, even if they dropped down to 30% profit their still making a hell of alot of money
> 
> 
> Ah yes Comrade! Lets PUNISH A COMPANY FOR MAKING MONEY. What a novel Concept. Im glad we live in a Socialist country...NOT.


Never did i say Punish!!!!!! what i am saying were at a point where even though gas is almost an inelastic product as you can get, some people are not being able to afford it at the quantity they formaly bought at, if they keep on bumping their price they will lose business due to the price...cause them to intern loose money...or they can bump price down lose a little profit, gain more quantity because more people can afford a greater quantity and while ther profit percentage would be down their overall profit would be up...dont jump to conclusions comrade! and even though we live in a free market captilism economy, our gov can still put restrictions on....im just throwing some ideas out there


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

For a large corporation like that to alter their profit margin by even 1% is huge.
A 12% profit margin can easily make or break a company.

(If either one of my companies suffered a 12% loss, it would be catastrophic!)


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

Misunderstanding then sir.







Sorry for jumping to conclusions so quickly!

But yes, you are completely correct. The insane price is going to give rise to more research into alternative fuel methods that are cheaper. If the gas companies keep raising the price, they are going to effectively put themselves out of business. They are not dumb, they know this as well.

Just keep on chugging along people, there will be a change!


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## eddyhead (Nov 6, 2007)

Piranha_man said:


> For a large corporation like that to alter their profit margin by even 1% is huge.
> A 12% profit margin can easily make or break a company.
> 
> (If either one of my companies suffered a 12% loss, it would be catastrophic!)


Good point, never really thought of the magnitude


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

Lowporkwa said:


> Liberals wont let us build new refineries wont let us drill in Alaska...


dude...honestly? you have a circle jerk of oil guys running our country...there's no legit reason why gas is high, it "just is". there are surpluses in saudi arabia, they have the ability to increase production, but why would they want to do that, they want it to trickle in so that we pay 3 dollars a gallon in profit to their greedy asses because they know that alternative fuels are going to take over. the beautiful thing now is that they are saying it's costing more and more to grow vegetable based oils for cleaner fuel, HAHA, last time i checked, the sun and dirt cost about the same, around FREE. it's a total manipulation.

but regardless, i pay around 600 a month on gas.

but hey, just blame the liberals, it's easy enough to not think for yourself i guess...


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

wanna know why prices are so high???
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/earns_exxon_mobil.html
and 12% loss my ass, first of all, oil companies dont lose, that's what happens when you create a comodity that everyone NEEDS...when it turns into a necessity, it's a pretty good idea to charge the f*ck out of it, because you can make billions and billions of dollars. there are no alternatives, this society has lived 100 years relying on gasoline.

kind of like insurance, only thing with insurance is...1 big hurricane can take the whole system down...unlike with oil, it's impervious to hurricanes...

anyway...
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/earns_exxon_mobil.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/earns_exxon_mobil.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/earns_exxon_mobil.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/earns_exxon_mobil.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/earns_exxon_mobil.html


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

Last time i checked the oil price was set by OPEC, not the 'circle jerk' of oil leaders in the country. Ignorance is bliss on your part i guess.

Tell me why would all the oil companies jack up prices if they know alternative fuels are coming? Doesn't jacking up the prices of oil just cause us to expedite the want for those alternative fuels even more? I mean if prices were lower, this thread wouldnt exist, regardless of the coming oil crisis. People wouldnt care about alternative fuels, and voila, you are still buying their product.

And anyone that things ethanol is still a viable alternative fuel is pretty much purely ignorant of any of the facts surrounding it. The amount of corn that would have to be grown to supply a FRACTION of the amount of America's oil use would cover 97% of our country. And last time i checked, the entire country is not sunny, does not have fertile soil, and is 100% not viable to grow corn for ethanol. Thats why costs increase, so much has to be done to grow these crops. Simply put, ETHANOL WILL NOT EVER REPLACE OIL.

Whats mostly going to be the next fuel is Hydrogen. The combination of two hydrogen atoms to form a diatomic hydrogen molecule is an exothermic process that gives off energy. Once this process can be made more efficient it will replace gasoline completely.


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## piranawick (Dec 1, 2004)

$1.19 liter 3.79 liters in a gallon= *$4.51 gallon* too much


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

Lowporkwa said:


> Last time i checked the oil price was set by OPEC, not the 'circle jerk' of oil leaders in the country. Ignorance is bliss on your part i guess.
> 
> Tell me why would all the oil companies jack up prices if they know alternative fuels are coming? Doesn't jacking up the prices of oil just cause us to expedite the want for those alternative fuels even more? I mean if prices were lower, this thread wouldnt exist, regardless of the coming oil crisis. People wouldnt care about alternative fuels, and voila, you are still buying their product.
> 
> ...


opec controls 35% of production, and yet, two thirds of the reserves. surplus anyone? and opec IS a circle jerk of conspiring countries nickle and diming the most oil dependant country on earth, which just so happens to be the most powerful, and as of late, the most hated. woot for us!!!

why do they jack up prices if they know alternative fuels are coming...hmm, because alternative fuels are coming, and their demand that they love so much right now will not be existant in 20 years. so they're cashing in while they can.

also, yes, people would still care about alternative fuels if not for the oil "crisis"....something about global warming and the ice caps melting or some hodge podge...some liberal probably just made that sh*t up to sound like a hippy though. tehehe.

ethanol IS a viable alternative fuel, assuming you're relying on it 100% as an oil replacement, then obviously it's not as practical, however, did you know that the sun beams down more energy in 1 day on the earth than 5+ billion human beings use in an entire year? why dont we harness that sh*t? why are solar panels so expensive? why doesn't the government give tax rebates to people who buy them, subsidise the companies who make them...etc..? why dont we have huge wind farms? why dont we have solar farms in the desert where there is nobody around, and yet, it gets BAKED by the sun 300+ days a year? why dont we use the tides? tides come in, it's moving water...energy, tides go out, it's moving water, energy...what about more constant things like the gulf stream, or the california current? why isn't this at the forefront of government initiative? instead we're building billions of dollars worth of unnecessary bombs, fighting a war against nobody...etc...the current administration has done nothing to advance this nation...that's the job of the president. we're stuck in the stone age because the people in-charge have a large investment in the oil game, and so they're doing their part to make sure oil stays in demand. go ahead and dispute it, call me a dumb hippy liberal, say what you will, but you know it's the truth. if you dont, then YOU'RE the ignorant one, and like many people in this country in it's sad state of affairs, and you'll just continue to ride the coattails of someone in power who tells you to be afraid.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

here's an amazing website...a great read for open minds.

http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/solarenergy.html


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

the only people telling you to be afraid are the democrats. I.E. GLOBAL WARMING.

And you are so quick to bash President Bush, yet you have not said a thing that the liberal politicians have tried to do to amend the problem? Last time I checked the president said building new modern refineries would lower prices, that got shot down, he tried to tap Alaskas vast oil reserves, that got shot down. We ARE FUNDING ALTERNATIVE ENERGY RESEARCH. Thats the biggest research group at my university!

And to answer all your questions, solar panels currently only capture about 3% of the sunlight that hits them. and they are EXTREMELY expensive. So, why should we cover our deserts with an ineffective, incredibly expensive energy source? Why dont we fund research into solar cells and see if we can produce better technology before we cover the deserts in them? Same thing with wind energy, we DO have vast fields of wind generators. The problem is ITS NOT ALWAYS WINDY.

See you dont understand the basic fundamentals of an electric generator. They require CONSTANT motion. So a tide slowly coming in and slowly coming out every 6 or so hours is not going to produce any viable amount of energy. Plus, you try to build a big power plant on America's shores and someone (most likely a democrat) will come and shoot you down.

Gulf Stream and California current, so we should build enourmous offshore derricks in a giant current of water? How is that even possibly viable? Thats probably the most far fetched idea you've thrown out. It flat out would never work. I dont think that one takes any explaning.

So pretty much, I shot down every one of your ideas. Any more? Or should we just go back to blaming every problem this society faces on the war and president Bush?

Place your reliance on the Scientists and Engineers that are researching new fuel methods, NOT THE POLITICIANS.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Bawb2u said:


> I used the car a couple times lately in the snow, so I went out this morning to get gas for the first time this year, and it was $3.52/gallon. *I turned around and came home.* Do you guys really pay that much? How much do you guys spend on gas a month?


Must be nice to have that option. "Mom, Dad! The car needs gas and could you get me some more Doritos?"
















Here in the real world it's up to $3.49 for premium, $43.00 to fill the tank.
[/quote]
I am not sure I understand this, my Mother and Father live about 30 miles from here. I just decided that gas wasn't worth that much money.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

$4.50/gallon is funny. I'd be laughing all the way to the bank. I have the best of both worlds; I put 700 miles last year on the car, 15,000 on the bicycles, and have a fair amount of petro-chem stock.
Just keep believing that you HAVE to drive the car.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

Lowporkwa said:


> the only people telling you to be afraid are the democrats. I.E. GLOBAL WARMING.
> 
> And you are so quick to bash President Bush, yet you have not said a thing that the liberal politicians have tried to do to amend the problem? Last time I checked the president said building new modern refineries would lower prices, that got shot down, he tried to tap Alaskas vast oil reserves, that got shot down. We ARE FUNDING ALTERNATIVE ENERGY RESEARCH. Thats the biggest research group at my university!
> 
> ...


please, i respect your opinion, and i feel this is a subject that mutual learning should take place, but please read the article i posted, or find good facts. commonly available solar panels capture and convert 12-15% of the sunlight that hits them, dendritic web polyvoltaic cells capture and convert between 25-30%... and why would we tap the oil fields in alaska, when we could make a 200x200 mile solar farm that would FAR exceed what alaska's oil fields could EVER yeild? they're expensive alright...but so is 200 billion dollars to drop bombs in a stupid conflict halfway accross the world.

constant motion? i dont think there is much more of a constant motion than an offshore current...derricks? how about an underwater "wind" farm that uses the water instead of the wind, which, i dont know if you know this, but water is FAR greater at transferring energy than wind, the same sized propeller can turn a much larger generator underwater than it can above. and there is always moving water in the ocean...have you ever taken an oceonography class? ever hear of convection? water rises to the surface, cools, and sinks again, forming a huge cycle that goes on forever.

you didn't shoot down any of my ideas, number 1, if im not mistaken, YOU asserted the whole offshore derrick thing, so you disproved your own idea to make your balls feel bigger or something, i simply stated sources of power. if we can shoot down a satellite moving 17,000mph 130miles above the ground, then im sure we can figure out a way to use hydro power from the ocean.

your assessment is very closed minded in my opinion. but regardless...

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." ~ Albert Einstein


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## Lowporkwa (Mar 24, 2007)

I guess i worded that incorrectly. I am ALL for solar energy. It is one of the most viable options we can have today. I really just think more technology than we currently have is needed to fully capture its potential. I would wait until we have that technology before we invest such a vast amount of money in a project as important as this one. Trust me, there is a lot of cool technology being researched. It's all coming, just wait a few years.

edit, read your article, i admit i was using an old number i got from undergrad class years ago. Technology has obviously come a good ways.

just needs to go further.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

I have some problems with solar farms. With a 200x200 mile solar farm, how much residual heat would this put off? Where would rain water drain to? WHat would a 200x200 mile solar panel do to the ecosystem underneath it?


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

^ we can go put those solar panels in iraq/afghanistan, we've pretty much leveled those two countries anyhow.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> I have some problems with solar farms. With a 200x200 mile solar farm, how much residual heat would this put off? Where would rain water drain to? WHat would a 200x200 mile solar panel do to the ecosystem underneath it?


the eco-system would thrive...there would have to be gaps between each solar panel so that each solar panel wouldn't cast a shadow over the next, reptiles and other living creatures spend most of the day hiding beneath rocks and in shrubs, solar panels provide a HUGE hiding spot. plus, 200x200 miles is nothing when you compare it to the deforestation of the land in the northwest. where would rainwater drain? uhh...the same place it always does, it's not 1 solid blanket of solar panel, it's many many many individual panels which can be manipulated throughout the day to absorb maximum sunlight from the sky. not only that, in the desert southwest, it doesnt really rain all that much. since the early 20th century america has been testing bombs, flying jets, testing land vehicles and shooting weapons in the area between mexico, las vegas, and southeastern california. the middle of the mojave desert...no adverse affects to the eco-system have been reported. but on top of all that, it's a 200x200 mile eco-system. even if it is obliterated, who cares? ALL of our nations power could be generated from that plot of land, ALL. no more polution, no more worries of some terrorist triggering a nuclear explosion at one of our many nuclear power plants, no more gas fired generators, less dependancy on oil. it's totally plausible. look at HDTV's, when they first came out, they cost literally 20,000 dollars or more. we just bought ours for 600 bucks, and its 1080p, 42" with a contrast of 10,000:1. point is, when you mass produce something, the cost of production goes down. this is what needs to happen with solar panels. the government needs to step in for the benefit of the country and the world. and why not implement a system like this? if we could rely solely on solar energy for all our household electricity needs, we'd be a forefront player in the world development again, instead of some rogue supergiant trying to take over every country out there. we'd no longer be the bully, we'd be the leader, and other nations would follow.

and as for residual heat...? my guess is comparative to hard playa and rocks? but i dont know for sure, but that's a good question. although i think it wouldn't be enough to have an adverse affect on the climate or anything else for that matter.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

I'm not worried about triggering a nuclear explosion at a nuke plant. Nobody reasonable is. If you believe that the desert enviroment would not be changed by these panels, you are crazy. Shading a great deal of land that is currently unshaded has to change something. 
No it doesn't rain much, but when it does flash floods are common, would these panels reduce, or increase these? Would there then be more or less erosion?
I'm not saying those other abuses of the desert are ok, they are not. But the desert is not a lifeless wasteland, it is a complete ecosystem, with its' own balances, and cycles. How much would 200x200 mile solar panels raise the downwind temperature? How many of these 200x200 arrays would be needed? to meet current demand? future demand? triple demand?


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

wow you guys are getting raped down there in the states,,,$1.80 i think was the highest ive ever seen it here,,,,,,


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

cueball said:


> wow you guys are getting raped down there in the states,,,$1.80 i think was the highest ive ever seen it here,,,,,,


That's a shocking difference.


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## mouthforcombat (Mar 12, 2008)

Gas is usually between $3.00 - $3.60 a gallon in Minneapolis. I have heard to expect it over $4.00 a gallon by late spring, and that felt nothing short of a kick in the nuts.

By the way, that new gas tax bill that the liberals were pushing to get approved, did that get shot down? I think they wanted to start paying something like 5 cents a gallon.

Here's a freaky thought. China is starting to drive a LOT more vehicles now. A LOT more. Imagine how fast we'll fly through it once they surpass America.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

cueball said:


> wow you guys are getting raped down there in the states,,,$1.80 i think was the highest ive ever seen it here,,,,,,


don't you guys go by the litre though? add it up and it's about the same.

i was considering taking my truck out for the rest of the week...until i saw gas prices :/ it was 3.80 for premium. that made me sad in the pants.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

r1dermon said:


> wanna know why prices are so high???
> 
> kind of like insurance, only thing with insurance is...1 big hurricane can take the whole system down...unlike with oil, it's impervious to hurricanes...


Too bad the oil industry doesn't have to deal with "oil" fraud like the insurance company does.

But yes a bad hurricane season could hurt and destroy an insurance company if it was bad enough but good insurance companies have "saved" money for those seasons.


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## mouthforcombat (Mar 12, 2008)

As far as litres go, that is what America will soon do to give many of the ignorant citizens the impression that it's cheaper lol. It does seem to me that any time someone takes a sh*t or coughs too hard, they seem to find an excuse to raise gas prices.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

cueball said:


> wow you guys are getting raped down there in the states,,,$1.80 i think was the highest ive ever seen it here,,,,,,


if thats for a liter then:
1 liter = 0.264172052 US gallons
thats 7.32 per gallon.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

b_ack51 said:


> wanna know why prices are so high???
> 
> kind of like insurance, only thing with insurance is...1 big hurricane can take the whole system down...unlike with oil, it's impervious to hurricanes...


Too bad the oil industry doesn't have to deal with "oil" fraud like the insurance company does.

But yes a bad hurricane season could hurt and destroy an insurance company if it was bad enough but good insurance companies have "saved" money for those seasons.
[/quote]

the government also steps in to help insurance companies in the event of a catastrophe.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> I'm not worried about triggering a nuclear explosion at a nuke plant. Nobody reasonable is. If you believe that the desert enviroment would not be changed by these panels, you are crazy. Shading a great deal of land that is currently unshaded has to change something.
> No it doesn't rain much, but when it does flash floods are common, would these panels reduce, or increase these? Would there then be more or less erosion?
> I'm not saying those other abuses of the desert are ok, they are not. But the desert is not a lifeless wasteland, it is a complete ecosystem, with its' own balances, and cycles. How much would 200x200 mile solar panels raise the downwind temperature? How many of these 200x200 arrays would be needed? to meet current demand? future demand? triple demand?


a 200x200 mile plot would take care of the USA for years to come. and by the time it's obsolete, we'll all be driving fuel cells.

another thing to think about is that 1 large 200x200 plot is not practical. it would have to be spread out, since getting a current of electricity from arizona to massachusetts would be quite inefficient. if you put a 10x10 mile plot in every state, you'd be all set, then you're talking about a lot less of a damaged eco-system.

and yes, i understand it's a vibrant eco-system, it's not getting covered in a suffocating plastic bag where nothing can live, think of it more as a veil. rain will still come down, flash floods will still happen, it'll just provide a plot of shaded land. and just as an example of a current system, im sure the hoover dam has a greater environmental impact, blocking the southwests major river, than a plot of solar panels would. or how about a 1,000 mile long pipeline sucking oil out of prudhoe bay?


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## Omar (Mar 11, 2008)

i'm paying 4.43 for 93 octane in the bay area, and my car gets 10-12 miles per gallon, or 8-10 when i'm in a hurry to get to class or work, its insane - i remember gas being less than a dollar when i was in 3rd grade i believe??? i'm 20 now, for those not wanting someone that has a nickname like hussien for president should think twice, maybe this guy can lower gas prices, democrats are hard working people and understand the value of hard earned money, while republicans are the rich not caring about the hard working people making a decent life for there selfs and family - all they care about is raising tax dollars and spending OUR hard earned tax dollars to buy bullet proof tanks and water proof helicopters lol, just sad sad sad, while we have budgets being cut for education we are instead sending that to the war to support George W. Bush habit of impressing his daddy- which i dont blame i always try to impress my father but not by starting a war but in a civilized way of mowing the lawn quicker than he does or by busting ass at work and still going to college because i understand the value of life in America

our troops belong here in America, not back there in balakadaka town seeing kids being strapped to bombs or our troops walking in the desert out there in balakadadadaka land praying a mine doesnt blow there legs off


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## HugePiranha (Mar 7, 2005)

Just buy a moped guys!!!


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

I've read my fair share of ignorant ass opinions but some of you think back ass backwards, there's 3 members other than maddyfish.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

06 C6 LS2 said:


> I've read my fair share of ignorant ass opinions but some of you think back ass backwards, there's 3 members other than maddyfish.


Thanks that means so much coming from you! It's always ignorant to conserve resources isn't it? Hey why not waste every single thing we have so that we can get from place to place a little easier or faster? That would be fun.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

piranha_guy_dan said:


> $4.13 a gallon in canada is what we are paying when you work out the math
> 
> 3.79 litres are in 1 gallon
> 
> ...


Premium is over $4.50 per US gallon here for Sunoco 94 octane.


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## pcrose (Mar 9, 2003)

it will be $4 by summer in oregon. Cali is always higher than us


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> $4.13 a gallon in canada is what we are paying when you work out the math
> 
> 3.79 litres are in 1 gallon
> 
> ...


Premium is over $4.50 per US gallon here for Sunoco 94 octane.
[/quote]
gas is cheaper in ontario


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

maddyfish said:


> I've read my fair share of ignorant ass opinions but some of you think back ass backwards, there's 3 members other than maddyfish.


Thanks that means so much coming from you! It's always ignorant to conserve resources isn't it? Hey why not waste every single thing we have so that we can get from place to place a little easier or faster? That would be fun.
[/quote]

thanks for your support "chief".


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

hyphen said:


> wow you guys are getting raped down there in the states,,,$1.80 i think was the highest ive ever seen it here,,,,,,


don't you guys go by the litre though? add it up and it's about the same.

i was considering taking my truck out for the rest of the week...until i saw gas prices :/ it was 3.80 for premium. that made me sad in the pants.
[/quote]
cueball lives in his own world where he pays 1.80 a gallon it seems lolol ( 1 cueball gallon equals to one litre which 3.79 of equal one us gallon)


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