# Telling The Sex?



## Piranhas_FTW

How can you find out the sex of red bellies, also when do they begin to breed? Mine are around 6", are they ready or a little longer?


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## primetime3wise

possibly at that size, but not for sure. usually they are sexually mature at 6"-7"


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## Mr. Hannibal

You can't since they are not sexually dimorphic... you should read this: http://www.opefe.com/PBred_John.html


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## BRUNER247

I disagree. There's differences between sexes in adult rbp. 6" should be big enough. Males will usually a smaller, thinner fish. With a flatter belly when looking at the fish as profile. Females are usually thicker & the belly dips down more than a male again looking as profile. Female full of eggs will be fat to the point you can see her ribs. They usually turn dark when the spawning mode kicks in.


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## Mr. Hannibal

hastatus said:


> The guy at my LFS said that rhoms breeding stage is around 12+ and until them its hard to tell the actually sex of the fish. Is he correct?


As a general observation males are smaller. But that's not carved in rock. I had people swear their rhombeus was female. Sliced them open found gonads and parasite damage in intestinal tract. Clearly a male piranha. Seen same with P nattereri. Girth is usually not a good indicator for sexing. Neither is elongation. The sure fire way to know for sure is they breed for you or you slice them open.
[/quote]


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## BRUNER247

belly bottom profile won't steer ya wrong. There's a difference if you know what your looking for.


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## MFNRyan

thanks for the link Hannibal. I needed some good solid facts on this since I'm thinking about giving this a try.


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## Mr. Hannibal

RedBelly11 said:


> thanks for the link Hannibal. I needed some good solid facts on this since I'm thinking about giving this a try.


Good luck!


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## MFNRyan

I already changed my mind. Why rush it, from what I have read and found in my research once they stop, they keep on and on and on and I don't want to deal with that. Why rush it, I like them staying in normal color with normal behavior lol


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## Red Sox Fanatic

Good read Hannibal .


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## amazonjungle

I'd say just wait till you see signs of mating haha. that's if you're lucky enough to get a male and a female ready to do that.
you may not be able to figure out who's the male and whos the female, but I was told that the males hover around the eggs to protect them

regardless of the sex, if you have two ready to mate opposite sexes in your tank....you'll get eggs!

perhaps you should look into getting together a nice aquarium for the fry and learn about how to take care of them.

Hannibal's link goes through that stuff well.


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## pygocentrus da 3rd

you cannot tell the sex of piranhas..but some people say that during breeding season the females look fatter cause she is filled with eggs..So keep an eye out if you see a 2 pair off the fatter one is most likely the girl..but you will know for sure when you see whos laying the eggs thats the only true way to sex piranhas


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## memento

That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".

A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


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## BRUNER247

Bs imo.


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## memento

BRUNER247 said:


> Bs imo.


It's called research Bruner, as opposed to just wild assumptions and jumping to general conclusions


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## BRUNER247

Maybe if you did your research with actual living piranha in front of you instead of a monitor maybe you could tell the difference also.


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## memento

No, I don't think so. I rather rely on what others have researched during several years. Going by your average replies over here, I don't think your way is actually gonna teach me much.

No offense.


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## BRUNER247

Others that researched like you are? Research from others that don't breed em? Your giving advice on someone elses research. Never having bred them yourself. It doesn't surprise me one bit that you can't sex em. Anyone that's bred em a lot can tell they difference if they spend any amount of time in front of the tank. Oh & the advice on telling sex at spawning time is CRAP. When they're spawning you can't see which one the eggs are coming out of. There's SO MUCH that's unknown about piranha & you & Frank preach the research like its set in stone. Just because the subtle differences aren't in your research doesn't mean they aren't there if you know what to look for.


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## BRUNER247

You giving advice on sexes is as bad as Frank giving Mfnryan advice on raising fry. Just like Frank says. Stick to what you know.


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## memento

If you do the same, we both will be fine.
So let's stick to facts... not assumptions.

And I don't mind, but you might want to consider using facts for arguments instead of just bad-mouthing others as usual as soon as they disagree with you.

End of discussion.... there's a lot of reading I still have to do and your posts aren't reallyt on top of that pile.


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## BRUNER247

Bad mouthing huh? Ok lol. You want facts? Fact: sexing is something you can do after having & spawning rbp for many years. Fact: you will never be able to sex rbp by researching or on a computer.
So it doesn't surprise me one bit that you can't do it or that you still believe it can't be done.


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## pygocentrus da 3rd

memento said:


> That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".
> 
> A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


yes the key word is "most likely" the only true way to sex piranhas like i said is to observe the two that pair off and see which one is laying the eggs.


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## hastatus

I'm curious Bruner, do you have any photos of your P nattereri operation? If you don't, put some up. I dont think I've seen any from you.









Waiting patiently for photos.


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## BRUNER247

pygocentrus da 3rd said:


> That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".
> 
> A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


yes the key word is "most likely" the only true way to sex piranhas like i said is to observe the two that pair off and see which one is laying the eggs.
[/quote]
Good luck with that! Lmao


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## hastatus

BRUNER247 said:


> That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".
> 
> A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


yes the key word is "most likely" the only true way to sex piranhas like i said is to observe the two that pair off and see which one is laying the eggs.
[/quote]
Good luck with that! Lmao
[/quote]
Did you miss my post? I'd like to see photos of your P nattereri breeding operation


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## pygocentrus da 3rd

BRUNER247 said:


> That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".
> 
> A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


yes the key word is "most likely" the only true way to sex piranhas like i said is to observe the two that pair off and see which one is laying the eggs.
[/quote]
Good luck with that! Lmao
[/quote]
Wait.. so your saying you can sex piranhas before they pair off? just by looking at them? Ok ..out of these red bellies in this photo how many females you see?


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## memento

Several people have claimed to be able to tell the sex from slight differences in morphology. Bruner is just one of them.
I did get interested in that once, for considered it possible there may have been some truth in it.

As usual on matter like this, I also got to talk with people who claimed the opposite - claiming that these differences were far from reliable and sometimes plain wrong. 
Most of these came to that conclusion just from observations, just like the people claiming they cán tell the difference come to conclusions from observations.

That's why I never consider that a reliable method - obviously it results in assumptions only.

Some people took the effort though to dissect a couple of specimen and test their hypothesis by it.
The ones they would say would be female, turned out to be males, reason enough for me to conclude these proposed differences in appearance are indeed not consequent enough to consider reliable.

Of course Bruner is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else.
But I prefer to compare opinions, before confusing assumptions from facts.

For every 10 people making the claim Bruner does, there are also 10 or more who rejected that claim. Of which some even argumented by actually testing their assumption for validity.


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## BRUNER247

hastatus said:


> That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".
> 
> A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


yes the key word is "most likely" the only true way to sex piranhas like i said is to observe the two that pair off and see which one is laying the eggs.
[/quote]
Good luck with that! Lmao
[/quote]
Did you miss my post? I'd like to see photos of your P nattereri breeding operation








[/quote]
What so you can pick apart or talk sh*t? What is my breeding award up for review? Lmao.


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## memento

I honestly must admit I don't recall ever seeing clear pics or videos from all your experience Bruner...
Not that I mind though


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## hastatus

BRUNER247 said:


> That's the key word da 3rd : "most likely".
> 
> A lot of people claim there is a visible difference like Bruner described. In reality however, like described in the quote from Frank, none of these differences are consequent.


yes the key word is "most likely" the only true way to sex piranhas like i said is to observe the two that pair off and see which one is laying the eggs.
[/quote]
Good luck with that! Lmao
[/quote]
Did you miss my post? I'd like to see photos of your P nattereri breeding operation








[/quote]
What so you can pick apart or talk sh*t? What is my breeding award up for review? Lmao.
[/quote]
You've haven't wasted time doing that towards me. So now its time to put up or shut up









Your breeding award doesn't mean much to me. And its irrelevant to this discussing with you.


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## BRUNER247

Lol your the expert, where's all your pics, videos ect? Where's the videos of the thousands of fry n fish you've raised? Where's the pics & videos of your setups, your fry tanks full of fry, your juvie tanks overflowing with babies, where's your spawning videos Frank? Let's see your results from raising a batch of fish. Let's see your fry feeding videos, your swarm of juvies at feeding time. What you think mods just handed me this breeding award? Several mods & many members have seen my tanks, & setups.my results from spawning to trio spawning together, eggs, fry, juvies, feeding over 500 fish by hand to completely hatching brine. & why should I share ANYTHING here I'm just a wannabe hobbiest as you put it.


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## memento

Hastatus doesn't have a breeding award Bruner, so your request is pretty useless.

You do have one though and like I said I don't mind. But that doesn't make you any more reliable since there isn't a single picture or video of that.

May have had something to do with the confusion in thsi topic though : http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193319-p-furys-breeding-awards-a-joke/

But back ontopic. About a year ago you started a topic (http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193640-sexing-rbp/) questioning how to sex redbellies, and one year later all of a sudden you have become expertised in that matter ?

Once again, I really don't care about awards and have no problem with your opinions. But don't expect me te consider them as reliable, without any back up of it all.


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## hastatus

BRUNER247 said:


> Lol your the expert, where's all your pics, videos ect? Where's the videos of the thousands of fry n fish you've raised? Where's the pics & videos of your setups, your fry tanks full of fry, your juvie tanks overflowing with babies, where's your spawning videos Frank? Let's see your results from raising a batch of fish. Let's see your fry feeding videos, your swarm of juvies at feeding time. What you think mods just handed me this breeding award? Several mods & many members have seen my tanks, & setups.my results from spawning to trio spawning together, eggs, fry, juvies, feeding over 500 fish by hand to completely hatching brine. & why should I share ANYTHING here I'm just a wannabe hobbiest as you put it.


Ever heard of opefe? That's where my photos and videos are. As for breeding P nattereri did that years ago before the internet. Also bred S maculatus. Unlike you, I have no interest in breeding awards or crying about it like you did in memento link.

But this is not about me. Its about seeing photos of your operation. Like I stated, put up or shut up


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## BRUNER247

memento said:


> Hastatus doesn't have a breeding award Bruner, so your request is pretty useless.
> 
> You do have one though and like I said I don't mind. But that doesn't make you any more reliable since there isn't a single picture or video of that.
> 
> May have had something to do with the confusion in thsi topic though : http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193319-p-furys-breeding-awards-a-joke/
> 
> But back ontopic. About a year ago you started a topic (http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193640-sexing-rbp/) questioning how to sex redbellies, and one year later all of a sudden you have become expertised in that matter ?
> 
> Once again, I really don't care about awards and have no problem with your opinions. But don't expect me te consider them as reliable, without any back up of it all.


Lmao! Seriously combi you can't tell I was joking around in that thread? As for 1st one idk even know what your implying. I was doing what needed to get done for someone that deserved the award. Jay showed the proof give him what he earned. As did I, I showed more than enough proof to cluster, RnR, ksls, & I believe Piranha-guru. Dozens of members have seen my proof, several here have or had my proof. & idk where your getting the crap about franks breeding award? You guys are hilarious. & Frank I don't have to put up sh*t. I have nothing to prove to you. I don't need your approval or blessing.


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## memento

See, that's why I consider discussions like this to be a waste of time. 
Another repeating of how hilarious we are, but still no facts, no arguments, just the expectation we rely on your word...

Problem is, those words get twisted whatever way suits you at the moment and if that's no longer an option, you just start editing or removing.


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## BRUNER247

memento said:


> See, that's why I consider discussions like this to be a waste of time.
> Another repeating of how hilarious we are, but still no facts, no arguments, just the expectation we rely on your word...
> 
> Problem is, those words get twisted whatever way suits you at the moment and if that's no longer an option, you just start editing or removing.


I edit n remove after you n Frank talk sh*t. Claim I know everything. So screw it I delete em. Your funny about twisting words. You guys do that not me. & again I don't have/need to prove anything to either of you. PLENTY have seen my proof whether its in person, or pics n videos.


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## memento

Yeah, it's always others who talk sh*t....
In what way do I twist words ? I only link to your own topics - not my words, yours. And by only linking to those exact words, how would I be able to twist 'm ?

Edit : enjoy, the final word will be yours. Done with it. Just endless repeatings of how hilarious or unfair others are, no arguments....


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## hastatus

BRUNER247 said:


> Hastatus doesn't have a breeding award Bruner, so your request is pretty useless.
> 
> You do have one though and like I said I don't mind. But that doesn't make you any more reliable since there isn't a single picture or video of that.
> 
> May have had something to do with the confusion in thsi topic though : http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193319-p-furys-breeding-awards-a-joke/
> 
> But back ontopic. About a year ago you started a topic (http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193640-sexing-rbp/) questioning how to sex redbellies, and one year later all of a sudden you have become expertised in that matter ?
> 
> Once again, I really don't care about awards and have no problem with your opinions. But don't expect me te consider them as reliable, without any back up of it all.


Lmao! Seriously combi you can't tell I was joking around in that thread? As for 1st one idk even know what your implying. I was doing what needed to get done for someone that deserved the award. Jay showed the proof give him what he earned. As did I, I showed more than enough proof to cluster, RnR, ksls, & I believe Piranha-guru. Dozens of members have seen my proof, several here have or had my proof. & idk where your getting the crap about franks breeding award? You guys are hilarious. & *Frank I don't have to put up sh*t. I have nothing to prove to you. I don't need your approval or blessing.*
[/quote]

My request was simple that even an idiot could understand. I'll repeat it one more time. If you have photos of your P. nattereri operation, I would like to see them.

But since you don't intend to show anything. Then that is the final answer on your "proof".


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## BRUNER247

OK whatever ya say ol great one.


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## Piranhas_FTW

So my post about a single question of sexing turned into this? Lmao. Btw... You cant sex piranhas, some may be able to over time but most cant. Well this may be my last post here. I had 2 nattereri to start out with, one jumped out and I was left with a single p. I sold him now. I'm not getting any more p's until I get a bigger tank. Im actually working on a community tank right now, hopefully all goes well. I started off with 3 German blue rams and a betta, planning on getting some neon tetras. But like I said I'm not getting back into piranhas until I get some cash flow and able to get a right sized tank and a nice shoal of p's going.


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## 1rhom

Does it really matter that much if he can prove it or not? No pointing fingers but,it's bashing back and forth like this that make people not want to come back to pfury (among other reasons)!
Everyone has experiences we can learn from regardless of proof. Though posting pics or vids would be helpful!!
If someone wants proof that badly then I say, try it for yourself and see what happens!!


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## memento

To me, no. Not important at all. But when someone lacks the respect to react normally to someone else who is considered an expert on piranhas, imo he needs to be able to provide some decent arguments for that. Not just trying to ridicule others by shouting out loud how hilarious they are.
To me the simple fact is, we can indeed learn form experience of others. I just like my information to be verifiable, that's all


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## 1rhom

memento said:


> To me, no. Not important at all. But when someone lacks the respect to react normally to someone else who is considered an expert on piranhas, imo he needs to be able to provide some decent arguments for that. Not just trying to ridicule others by shouting out loud how hilarious they are.
> To me the simple fact is, we can indeed learn form experience of others. I just like my information to be verifiable, that's all


Agreed!


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## canadianforever

from reading the comment about the male having a flatter belly then the female i have noticed that difference with my 3 rbp about 6" long the one is darker then the other 2 he is the medium sized one and he has a flatter bottom well the other 2 are more rounded my fish are yet to show breeding behavior yet tho i am looking for a way to encourage it i can upload the pictures of my three if you like


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## BRUNER247

Lots of triggers you can try. Lots of small waterchanges,play with temp,decor,lighting ect ect. Your flat bellied fish will be the nest builder.


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## Fishnut2

With all due respect to Frank,Hannibal,and Memento... I totally agree with Bruner. If you've spawned them a few times, you can sex them. And it's not even that hard. It's not worth arguing about. I'd like to encourage the people that can't sex them...to spawn them once or twice. It truely is a rewarding experience.


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