# Small tear in bag of Arag-alive



## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

as i was pulling a bag of arag-alive out of my trunk today i ripped it. its a small rip, maybe 1cm, but a tiny bit of water and sand got out. as soon as i got home i taped it up and it doesnt seem to be leaking anymore.

my question is: is the arag-alive still ok(bacteria still alive)? or do i have a very small amount of time to get it into my tank (which isnt set up yet)?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

should be fine as long as there is still moisture in the sand, would bebest to store it at room temp away from a direct heat source that might dry it out


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

i taped it up and stored it somewhere cool. ill be putting it in the tank tmorrow or saturday.

can i add liverock after i add the sand? or do i have to add them both at the same time?

if i got a small amount of LR to start, could i just do that? or is it best to buy it all at once?

a place near me has some kaeilla and jakarta LR in. ive been in contact with the owner and he said the jakarta is particularly nice. he said theres lots of colours and critters on it. i might go out there tomorrow.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Puff said:


> i taped it up and stored it somewhere cool. ill be putting it in the tank tmorrow or saturday.
> 
> can i add liverock after i add the sand? or do i have to add them both at the same time?
> 
> ...


first mix all the water and salt fill the tank about 1/2 way then put teh bag in the tank and cut the bottom of it and slowly lift so all the sand falls out nice and easy and you will have nice clear water from day one.. no sediment swirling around and clogging the filter and no sediment sticking to the glass to potentially score it when you clean it off..

you can add the rock after or before teh sand but after is better,. doesnt really matter either way there will be some type of cycle once you add rock to an unestablished tank. it wil be all good.. just give it time to cycle before you rush to put any coral or fish in.

if they will let you pick the rock best thing to do is feel the piece, ive picked up pieces that might be teh soft ball and weighed 5 lbs and them picked up a piece twice the surface area and about the same weight.. also nice if they let the rock drain a bit and shake out the water so your nto paing for water at 5 - 10 bucks a pound


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

i was going to bring a big rubbermaid with me with water in it to put the liverock in. if i dont keep the liverock in water wont there be some die off on the trip home? (about 1 hour)

do you have to acclimate the live rock?

how soon before i add the liverock can i add the substrate?

i got a bunch of stuff setup today. i just need to trim a piece so that my fuge will fit on the back better.

my fuge also has a skimmer that i can put in to it (sapphire aquatics). should i set up the fuge at the same time as the main tank? or wait a bit? also, should i wait a bit to start the skimmer?


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Puff said:


> i was going to bring a big rubbermaid with me with water in it to put the liverock in. if i dont keep the liverock in water wont there be some die off on the trip home? (about 1 hour)
> 
> *The LR should be fine for one hour; however, a big rubbermaid container is a good idea anyway. That way, the LR will not be making a huge mess in your car. Plus, if you have just a small amount of water in the bottom that will be fine. The water will sloch around and keep the LR wet. *
> 
> ...


I am not sure what kind of deal you can pull on LR, but if your LR is the same price that I normally pay ($6.99-$7.99 per pound) this trick will save you a ton. First start with base rock (BR), bascially it is the same thing is LR but not alive, it goes for $1.99-$2.99 per pound. IMO get at least half of your over all weight in BR. Then, go hand pick some nice pieces of LR to go on top (look for rocks with coraline algae on it for seeding purposes). After you get your sand substrate laid down, start with the BR and place those down, then add the LR on top. The LR will quickly (month or two) populate the BR, so you will have aquacultured LR at that point. That will save you tons of money, and within six months you really will not be able to tell the difference between the two. Also, as you hand select the LR/BR get larger pieces. I made the mistake of getting tons of smaller pieces, and a few large rocks and IME it is much better to get larger pieces. Larger pieces are easier to stack, move around, lets water move around the reef easier, etc...Look at pieces around softball size or larger. The issue that I have on one side of my reef (the other side is large pieces) is that if I have to move a rock I have to readjust several peices so everything sits right. If you have large rocks, then they will stack much easier, and be more stable. Just my 2 cents...


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Coldfire said:


> i was going to bring a big rubbermaid with me with water in it to put the liverock in. if i dont keep the liverock in water wont there be some die off on the trip home? (about 1 hour)
> 
> *The LR should be fine for one hour; however, a big rubbermaid container is a good idea anyway. That way, the LR will not be making a huge mess in your car. Plus, if you have just a small amount of water in the bottom that will be fine. The water will sloch around and keep the LR wet. *
> 
> ...


I am not sure what kind of deal you can pull on LR, but if your LR is the same price that I normally pay ($6.99-$7.99 per pound) this trick will save you a ton. *First start with base rock (BR), bascially it is the same thing is LR but not alive, it goes for $1.99-$2.99 per pound. IMO get at least half of your over all weight in BR. Then, go hand pick some nice pieces of LR to go on top (look for rocks with coraline algae on it for seeding purposes).* After you get your sand substrate laid down, start with the BR and place those down, then add the LR on top. The LR will quickly (month or two) populate the BR, so you will have aquacultured LR at that point. That will save you tons of money, and within six months you really will not be able to tell the difference between the two. Also, as you hand select the LR/BR get larger pieces. I made the mistake of getting tons of smaller pieces, and a few large rocks and IME it is much better to get larger pieces. Larger pieces are easier to stack, move around, lets water move around the reef easier, etc...Look at pieces around softball size or larger. The issue that I have on one side of my reef (the other side is large pieces) is that if I have to move a rock I have to readjust several peices so everything sits right. If you have large rocks, then they will stack much easier, and be more stable. Just my 2 cents...
[/quote]

i recently increased my total rock volume by about 30 percent with base rock, i went to a frag swap and Marco rock had display and was sellign all of there rock "u-pick" style for 2.50 a lb, i kind of wish i was setting up a biggertank because they had awesome shapes and this is by far the best way to get rock because its dry so your not paying for water. this stuff does have decaying organic matte on it so it does cause a curing cycle..

do a search for marco rock and check there site.. you could do 30 percent live rock and the rest with the base rock and save some bills..


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Humm, I have not heard of Macro Rock before. I will have to look into it. Thanks for the heads up ND.

Yeah, I recently bought a new SPS frag (Bali Green Slimmer). So, I have been sitting in front of my Reef non-stop for several days. I came to the conclusion yesterday, that I want to add some more BR to the system. My Reef is a 29g, and I already have over 100lbs of LR/aquacultured BR in there. However, when I moved from my apartment to my new house, I restacked the rock. Two stacks on each side with a valley in the middle. Yeah, a dumbazz move since I am getting back into SPS now. It did not make a difference with the LPS and Soft corals, because the 150W HQI pounds this sized tank. Nonetheless, I am thinking about fully stacking the entire tank with more rock so the tank will have a "cliff" look to it. Of course factoring in spots for the LPS mid-way up. The Softs & Clam I have do fine on the substrate, but I have a colony of Xenia at the top on the left (to get indirect MH light), and they are growing like crazy.

Yes, I just feel like typing today.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Coldfire said:


> Humm, I have not heard of Macro Rock before. I will have to look into it. Thanks for the heads up ND.
> 
> Yeah, I recently bought a new SPS frag (Bali Green Slimmer). So, I have been sitting in front of my Reef non-stop for several days. I came to the conclusion yesterday, that I want to add some more BR to the system. My Reef is a 29g, and I already have over 100lbs of LR/aquacultured BR in there. However, when I moved from my apartment to my new house, I restacked the rock. Two stacks on each side with a valley in the middle. Yeah, a dumbazz move since I am getting back into SPS now. It did not make a difference with the LPS and Soft corals, because the 150W HQI pounds this sized tank. Nonetheless, I am thinking about fully stacking the entire tank with more rock so the tank will have a "cliff" look to it. Of course factoring in spots for the LPS mid-way up. The Softs & Clam I have do fine on the substrate, but I have a colony of Xenia at the top on the left (to get indirect MH light), and they are growing like crazy.
> 
> Yes, I just feel like typing today.


wow that is alot of rock in a 29.. i think i have about 40 -50 lbs in my 45, hard to say, i started with about 10 lbs in a 10 gallon then add about 5 or 10lbs when i upgraded to the 20gallon long then about another 20lbs when i moved to the 45gallon plus the chunks of rock from a couple of "combo rocks" with zoos and mushrooms on them.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Yeah, that is a ton of rock in a 29g. It actually looked like a 100 lbs the way I had it set up, but now it really doesn't.









Oh well, it is a hobby and it is time to spend some more money on it.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

so ive got everything setup except my RO/DI water system, which im just setting up now.

the liverock at this place is about 5$ per pound, but the owner is a good guy and i know one of his major customers, so i will most likely be getting a deal on the rock, but im not sure what.

the thing is, is that since it's only a nano that i have, i dont need to buy an awful lot of live rock. i would say only 17-25lbs, as it's a 24 gallon tank, but a part of that is taken up by the overflow.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

By the "text-book" you should look to add 1.25 - 2 pounds per gallon. Of course, you can factor in the space taken up by the overflow, and go from there. Or, you can simply put as much rock as you would like in there, or that looks good. Just remember that your LR does all of your bio-filtration. Thus, IMO the more the merrier!


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

exactly coldfire.

i think what ill do is buy about 25lbs of LR tomorrow. stack it up in the tank, and if i feel that i want more LR i will go get a bit more. luckily theres a couple of places in town that ALWAYS have cured LR, so at least i hopefully wont be restarting the cycle if i added more cured LR a bit after i add the first stuff.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Puff said:


> exactly coldfire.
> 
> i think what ill do is buy about 25lbs of LR tomorrow. stack it up in the tank, and if i feel that i want more LR i will go get a bit more. luckily theres a couple of places in town that ALWAYS have cured LR, so at least i hopefully wont be restarting the cycle if i added more cured LR a bit after i add the first stuff.


there will always be some mini cycle adding foriegn live rock to a your tank. your tank isnt the same as what ever tank the rock comes from..


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

very true.

well im about to leave to go get the liverock.

im going to be buyign some premixed saltwater as well, because my RO/DI filter is acting up. when i first pour out water it reads like 18ppm...then 30 seconds later it reads 003ppm...but it wont read 000ppm









i DID just set it up yesterday and have barely run it...but still.lol


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Yeah, your RO might need to be ran a bit before it fully starts filtering. At first, you might have been getting some blow-by; hence, the 18 ppm then the decreasing numbers.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

now its fluctuating between 001 and 000ppm...so i think its finally ready.lol


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Now, that is what I like to hear. .001-.000 ppm from a water source. Very nice!!

How many GPD does your RO pull?


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

just 25 gallons per day. but my tank is only 24 gallons. so i figured it didnt make much sense to spend a bunch more money for a 75 gpd system. the best thing about this system was the price. the company is like 5 mins from my gfs house, so shipping was cheap as hell. the system only cost about 150$ all in. including a 4.4gallon resevoir tank, faucet, 6 stage filtration, and all the gear. i also got filter replacements to last a few years. including the extra filters it came to 200$ including shipping. and it's a very good system. ill take a pic of how it's setup later today.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

what is six stage filtration?


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

5 stage maybe?lol

it has the 3 prefilters, a filmtec membrane, a DI resin chamber, then another carbon or something filter at the top...

dont they refer to each chamber as a "stage" or would only the prefilters, RO membrane, DI, and whatever the last one is count? meaning that the 3 prefilters only count as 1...im not sure.lol


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