# My First Piranha



## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey guys how's it going? Have been browsing this forum for a couple of days and decided that this community is the most supportive with solid admins and members. Anyways, I've been looking to purchase either one or more piranhas. Today I went out and purchased a 20 gallon tank and plan to purchase my piranhas in about a week after the water has settled and the filter has been running a few days. I'm looking to buy 1 black piranha and possibly 2 more red belly piranhas depending on feedback from you guys. So I'm a bit skepticle about the black piranha as I hear that they are quite rare and are often mistaken for other breeds. This BP is located at a pet store and is aprox 2 inches long and looks very healthy. I am also looking at 2 RBP at a different fish store and these guys are aprox 1 inch long (am going with 3 as I hear an odd number disperses agression?). I am wondering if these two types of piranhas can work together in the same tank, especially with the RBP being so much smaller? I understand that a 20g tank is not adequate, but it will have to suffice for the next two months until I settle into my new home. How long do you do you think this 20g tank will be good for until the little guys outgrow it (I understand that this varies with growth rates but just a good approximation would be helpful). Should I start off with feeding the larger BP with bloodworms or live food such as small goldfish? Whta is a good ph level for the water and how often should the tank be cleaned? I know this is alot to ask coming from a newb member but I figured I'd give it a shot.

Thanks


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## kanito107 (Feb 1, 2011)

First off welcome to the site
Second you need to Make a decision. It's goig to be either black piranha or red bellies, since these species can't be in the same tank, being that black piranhas are more aggresive.
Then your going to need a tank bigger than 20g no matter what type of piranha your keeping. 30+ would he minimum .
Feeding goldfish isn't recommended they tend to be poorly kept and are more likely to have disieses that can get your piranhas sick. 
Ph should be maintained at 6.6 to 7.0 but keep in mind that you need to have your tank cycled and also keep an eye on ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
The tank should have at least 10% water changes every week.

If I missed anything I'm sure someone will come in here and add to it.


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## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

Kanito summed up the rhom and nattereri issue and mentioned the cycling. Can you let us know if you know about cycling the tank so we can walk you thru it if youre not sure. Dont buy any piranhas yet until its cycled which can take 3-6 weeks unless you can get some media from friends or lfs or else your piranha will most likely die. You can cycle by buying guppies or danios etc. or go fishless. Let us know what you think and we will get you set up right first then work on what fish you may like. welcome to the site!


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks for the info and timely replies .. I think that I'll go with the black pirahna as I find them more attractive and they seem to have this 'rareness' to them that kind of intrigues me.. is this fact? Also with black (nattereri?), are they compatable with any other fish species? I will definitely upgrade to a 40 or 50 gallon tank asap. As for the goldfish I was thinking of keeping them quarentined in a small tank for 10 days to check for diseases before feeding (is this not enough?). I've read that feeding the piranhas live food would add to their quality of life/ better nutrition value for them.. Don't know anything about cycling.. at the fish store they recomended running a filter for 5 days before introducing the piranhas to the tank.. any insight on this would be greatly appreciated


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Go with the black piranha and it can't be stressed enough that they need to be kept solitary. 
I would also advise to look at a 20 gallon "long" which will be shorter but have a larger "footprint" then a standard 20 gallon. This will give a young piranha more room for a grow-out tank. A standard 29 gallon I believe has the same footprint as a 20L but will be taller. 
A tank this size will not last this fish forever. But it will work for about a year give or take. 
If your black piranha is in deed a Serrasalmus rhombeus this fish should be expected to reach 6" in overall length in about a year. Its growth rate will dramatically slow down then to around 1" per year if you're lucky. Obviously, a larger tank will be needed. A standard 75 gallon will get you by for a VERY long time and will most likely be good for the life of your piranha. 
The name "black piranha" is a common name that is often screwed up by fish stores. It is quite often that species such as Serrasalmus sanchezi and Serrasalmus compressus are sold as "blacks". Most Serra's are extremely difficult to identify at juvenile sizes so after you purchase him post a clear as possible picture of him in the ID forum here. 
Its a good idea to purchase an inexpensive growout tank for a small serra for that reason. A Sanchezi or Compressus will not need a tank as large as what a Rhombeus will use. Not taking anything away from them, they can be truely awesome fish.
Another thing I would like to stress is that young piranhas can be extremely skittish while young. This behavior should be expected to last months if not a lot longer and patience is key.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Cycling

5 days then add the filter to the tank?









I don't like the sound of that advise. Stop listening to them.
I wouldn't say that feeding live adds to their quality of life at all. Definately NOT healthier then a diet of prepared frozen foods such as white fish fillet, shrimp, maybe some catfish, whole smelt....Most of this you can by at the grocery store.
Whole silver sides, squid and krill should be looked at as well. 
A varied diet is much healthier then feeding live. IMO, even with gut loading the food fish.

Most of us will recommend going that route. Should you still like to feed the occasional live fish to your piranha, stay away from rosies and goldfish. I'd look into mollies and platies. You can breed on your own and not worry about a 25 cent goldfish killing your prized piranha with some nasty illness.


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## e46markus (Dec 9, 2010)

Goldfish hold little to no nutritional value, most people on here don't even use live feeders; if so very conservatively. If it is your first time keeping piranha i might suggest starting out with red bellies. As already mentioned even a 20G isn't recommended even as a grow out tank.

Lot's of info on different species here:
http://www.piranha-info.com/default.php?lang=en&id=page_1


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## RiptideRush (Jan 22, 2011)

Since you went out and got a 20 gallon tank already, I'm assuming this is the tank you will be using, at least for now. To me the most important thing you should do is make sure your tank is cycled CORRECTLY. Be patient with this first step. There is a very good pinned post on cycling your tank in the WATER CHEMISTRY section in this forum. Adding to what others have said about 20 gallon tanks, every piranha, no matter what you choose, will eventually grow out of this tank. I agree with a single baby serra like LIFER suggested. I also have two temporary 20s with two baby serras in them. Serras have to be kept solitary. They have around a year or two before they will need a new tank. With red bellys, five or more is the way to go but I don't suggest them in a 20 gallon. As for mixing serras and red bellys, don't do it.
Get that tank cycled, and by the time that's done, you'll have read more on this site and would know what piranha to get. This is PIRANHA FURY.


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA (Dec 8, 2003)

As for Cycling you should talk to you LFS and see if you can get some of there filter media or a sponge filter that is in use to jump start the cycle. I would go with the baby black because it will give you some time before you have to pick up a new tank, the baby reds will out grow that tank in about 2 months. For food you can feed blood worms,beef heart and diced white fish or shrimp until he starts to put on some size. I would stay away from golf fish but you could by some Mollies or such for him to fin nip as it would be a good little snack until his next feeding. You should feed him atleast 2 times a day but 3 would be better. And WELCOME to P Fury


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## wizardslovak (Feb 17, 2007)

Go with juvi black as tank should be enough for few months . Although i would check craigslist , u can get bigger tanks for way lower then in stores







+ as some people said ask LFS for some used media , will help you cycle , get some guppies to help it







There is also product called CYCLE , get it







and pour it into tank . Will help it cycle. For Piranha , wait few weeks , until your water will be ready, m8t . Dont make mistakes , listen to us and everything will be fine


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Teigue said:


> Anyways, I've been looking to purchase either one or more piranhas. Today I went out and purchased a 20 gallon tank and plan A 20g is insufficient for any piranha so you would have to upgrade to asignificantly larger tank farily soon. If you wanted a solo serrasalmus and got a 1"er then that could last a bit but depending on the p you will need to upgrade after a few months to a year max to a tank around the 75g rangeto purchase my piranhas in about a week after the water has settled and the filter has been running a few days.You should be waiting over a month from setup and be sure you understand what cyling is and that your tank is fully cycled when adding fish. I'm looking to buy 1 black piranha and possibly 2 more red belly piranhas depending on feedback from you guys.Must have differnt tanks. For your tank size a 1"er is best then after mayby just under a year you must upgrade. So I'm a bit skepticle about the black piranha as I hear that they are quite rare They are actually farily common. If you know nothing about p's it may be hard to find them at lfs but if you know the p industry you will see there are often plenty of rhoms aroundand are often mistaken for other breeds. This BP is located at a pet store and is aprox 2 inches long and looks very healthy. I am also looking at 2 RBP at a different fish store and these guys are aprox 1 inch long (am going with 3 as I hear an odd number disperses agression?Thus is no entierly true. First off Do Not Keep a black piranha with red bellies. Second people say 3 is better then 2 but after that it makes no idfference if you have an odd or even number). I am wondering if these two types of piranhas can work together in the same tank,rhom will probably kill the reds assuming they were of similar size or smaller especially with the RBP being so much smaller? I understand that a 20g tank is not adequate, but it will have to suffice for the next two months until I settle into my new home. How long do you do you think this 20g tank will be good for until the little guys outgrow it (I understand that this varies with growth rates but just a good approximation would be helpful). I think with just the rhom you could do about 6-8 months before upgrading assuming is a 20L and not 20HShould I start off with feeding the larger BP bloodworms and brine shrimp are ideal not feederswith bloodworms or live food such as small goldfish? Whta is a good ph level for the water and A good pH level is usually the one you have. Ideally it will be slightly acidic though if its no its better to leave it stable high or low then to try to constantly readjust it to the ideal levelhow often should the tank be cleaned?Water change every weel of about 10% is recomened. A gravel vac monthly is good. Remove uneaten food an hour after feeding. You will just have to see how much maitnence is needed. For a solo rhom there will be a small bioload so don't overfeed and you won't have that much maitnence I know this is alot to ask coming from a newb member but I figured I'd give it a shot.
> 
> Thanks


Cycling 101


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

Great advice from all, thank you very much, I would truely be lost without your help. I will indeed do a proper cycle, starting with a visit to my LFS to possibly look for a filter already in use to jumpstart the cycle. I must say this is a bit more complicated than I expected but all worth it in the end.. I think the piranha is quite the interesting fish. It would seem that a 50 g tank will not suffice even one serra so I will look on craigslist or kijiji for a 75 g. Should I be looking for a tank with a bigger footprint rather than overall gallons as height value is not as much of an asset with a piranha? Also, I think an agressive filter that provides ample flow would best simulate river conditions, providing the best environment for my little guy? I will be purchasing just the one serra and will keep it solitary throughout it's life, except for maybe the odd mollie or platie


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Teigue said:


> I think the piranha is quite the interesting fish. It would seem that a 50 g a 50g would work for a bit but if you still have to buy the tank id just spend abit more now for a 75g rather then gettign a 50 then a 75 latertank will not suffice even one serra so I will look on craigslist or kijiji for a 75 g. Should I be looking for a tank with a bigger footprint rather than overall gallons as height value is not as much of an asset with a piranha?A larger footprint is better IMO. Any tank with a 4ft x 18" footprint is a good tank for most piranhas. 65,75 and 90g tanks are the standard tank sizes for this footprint. The 18" width is alot better then a 12" width sicne p's can get large and a 4ft length or more is ideal Also, I think an agressive filter that provides ample flow would best simulate river conditions,You don't nessisarily need alot of current though it does have some benifits providing the best environment for my little guy? I will be purchasing just the one serra and will keep it solitary throughout it's life, except for maybe the odd mollie or platie


For a 20g exodon paradoxus' would be a cool p like (attitude not appearance) fish. If you don't want a 75g you could get a sanchezi piranha and a 30g (preferabbly a 30breeder (36x18)). A snchezi will only get about 6" so it is an ideal p for smaller tanks. It looks farily similar to rhoms too.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Everyones summed it up sooo Welcom To P-fury


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> I think the piranha is quite the interesting fish. It would seem that a 50 g a 50g would work for a bit but if you still have to buy the tank id just spend abit more now for a 75g rather then gettign a 50 then a 75 latertank will not suffice even one serra so I will look on craigslist or kijiji for a 75 g. Should I be looking for a tank with a bigger footprint rather than overall gallons as height value is not as much of an asset with a piranha?A larger footprint is better IMO. Any tank with a 4ft x 18" footprint is a good tank for most piranhas. 65,75 and 90g tanks are the standard tank sizes for this footprint. The 18" width is alot better then a 12" width sicne p's can get large and a 4ft length or more is ideal Also, I think an agressive filter that provides ample flow would best simulate river conditions,You don't nessisarily need alot of current though it does have some benifits providing the best environment for my little guy? I will be purchasing just the one serra and will keep it solitary throughout it's life, except for maybe the odd mollie or platie


For a 20g exodon paradoxus' would be a cool p like (attitude not appearance) fish. If you don't want a 75g you could get a sanchezi piranha and a 30g (preferabbly a 30breeder (36x18)). A snchezi will only get about 6" so it is an ideal p for smaller tanks. It looks farily similar to rhoms too.
[/quote]

Well unfortunately (out of total ignorance and lack of research) I went out and bought a $300, 20g starter kit under the advice of some idiot working at the fish store (well, I guess I'm the idiot too). I will still upgrade to the proper tank but funds and space issues are currently an issue but I will straighten this out before my little guy outgrows his tank .. I appreciate the suggestions of different piranhas but earlier today I actually paid for the black piranha and they agreed to hold him for up to a month .. $50 was the price, does this seem reasonable? Also I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia .. not exactly the most diverse city where you can take your pick at any exotic species of P's, pretty much just red bellies and this one black guy in the city. I may seem naiive with all these quick purchases and uninformed decisions but I've just been so busy with university and getting ready to move and am stubbornly eager to get my damn P but worry not I will execute this properly and ensure that he is housed in an adequate aquatic environment.


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## e46markus (Dec 9, 2010)

If it's possible i might suggest taking a picture of it and posting it in the Piranha ID section. Not only do pet stores provide inadequete information on keep piranha and other fish, they sometimes misrepresent the specific species aswell. Always good to know exactly what your buying.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

A 20L would be a better choice to work as temporary quarters, but a 20H will work for a 2" Serra. You'll just have to upgrade sooner. 
Don't worry about coming into keeping this fish without knowledge. I can easily say most of us were in the same boat as you at some point or another. I came into keeping these fish with 10 baby red bellies in a 10 gallon tank. 
Its just nice to see a new keeper coming here and asking questions wanting the have success.

I'll say it again, when you bring this serra home, post a picture of him here. Either in this thread or in the ID section because its VERY common for a fish being sold as a "black piranha" to not be a true Rhombeus at all. And if thats the case, you will not need a 75 gallon tank.
In most cases the species thats mislabled as a black piranha is commonly Serrasalmus sanchezi. Like Cluster said its like a mini Rhombeus hardly ever reaching 7" total length. Its a very popular species here for the reason of a cool fish not requiring such a large tank.


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## wizardslovak (Feb 17, 2007)

listen people here, they know their crap


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

Alright well as soon as I get him I'll snap a picture and get you guys to ID him so I can get all my tank specifics and whatnot.. likely won't be for a few weeks. Would a picture of him in the tank be good enough or do you need something out of the tank.. and if so how do I do this?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Teigue said:


> Alright well as soon as I get him I'll snap a picture and get you guys to ID him so I can get all my tank specifics and whatnot.. likely won't be for a few weeks. Would a picture of him in the tank be good enough or do you need something out of the tank.. and if so how do I do this?


You want a flank shot which is a side shot of the fish nose to tail ideally as large as you can get it. If the fish is only 2" you won't get an accurate ID. Once it hits mayby 4-6" you should be able to get a better ID


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks for all the help.. Here's a picture what kind of P do you think it is?

upload didn't work, i'll look into it tmrw


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

If you get a chance, send pics to [email protected] and I can post for you.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Teigue, sounds like you're well on your way to providing a healthy temporary home for your fish.

Also I didnt see anyone mention anything about getting a test kit, you will need one to check ammo, nitrite, ph, and nitrate levels, to determine when it is indeed safe to add your fish.

What filtration are you running?


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm just running a filter which came in a 20g starter fish tank kit.. in a few months when I upgrade tanks I will definitely do my research on proper filtration and whatnot but for now I'm going with the basics.


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

http://s1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee484/McTeigue/?action=view&current=DSCF0049.jpg

Heres a link to what it looks like. What kind of P do you guys think it is?


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

I think he's a tiny piranha. Is that YOUR new fish or something that looks like the one your buying?

Definately going to need some time to grow into something "ID-able".


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Serrasalmus sanchezi, thats a tuff one....


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

Teigue!

What the hell is that fish? So many people post pics of tiny piranhas seeking an ID. It's a serrasalmus species! That's as far as I'll go.


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## Teigue (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks guys ... I understand that identifying at this stage is a difficult task and impossible to be %100 for certain. I just posted it to get some early feedback, see what your guesses were. And yes, that's my little guy


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