# 420: filtration system running



## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

Little inside joke in the topic description for the older folks out there that remember the Hollies (among others who did the song). Anyway, the 420 got its filtration system last week. I ran two 20-Amp circuits, each to a 4-outlet box mounted under the stand. I also split off a 3rd 4-outlet box above wired through a timer (lights are connected here so i don't have to deal with the on and off routine). Here is an overall view:


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

8 feet wide, 3.5 feet tall and 2 feet back:


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

The filtration system has 3 main components. 1st, an Aquanetics Series 200 cannister filter with a Blue Line 45L/min (713 gallons/hour) in its own loop (separate intake and return, idependant of all other systems). Also, a 60 gallon wet-dry made by Aquatic Visions (as was the 420 gallon tank), driven by an Iwacki (2136 gallons/hour) with its own intake and return (in the column). Last, an Aqua ultrviolet dual 57-Watt UV sterilizer with an 822 gallon/hour Iwacki pump. Here is the cannister and UV system:


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

here is the wet-dry:


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

One last picture.....from the front:


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

Nice tank! How many gallons of bio balls do you have in your wet/dry?


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## hays98 (Mar 8, 2003)

very nice














i bet that feeder you have in there feels like he's in the ocean.


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

MPower said:


> Nice tank! How many gallons of bio balls do you have in your wet/dry?


 I estimate 21.25 gallons of bioballs. These are found in 2 places:

(1) the wet-dry, dimensions of bioballs = 30"x16"x5.5" = ~ 11.4 gallons

(2) the column at the end of the tank (where the wet-dry feed from and returns to) = 36"x6"x10.5" = ~ 9.8 gallons


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## GARGOYLE (Feb 12, 2003)

baddass. Thanx hays, didnt even notice the feeder. lol


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## Runningmad (Aug 13, 2003)

wow... did you build that whole set up yourself, and if so .. how much time and money did you put into it? (awesome set up)


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## JesseD (Mar 26, 2003)

awesome


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

Runningmad said:


> wow... did you build that whole set up yourself, and if so .. how much time and money did you put into it? (awesome set up)


 I designed the whole thing, but had the tank built by Aquatic Visions. I had discussed the options for filtration with them, and decided on the 3 pronged approach. I didn't want to leave anything to chance. Costs, well, I'm 42 years old (older I am guessing than most of you), and it is expensive even for me. The whole set up is roughly:

(1) 420 gallon tank with delivery $4500
(2) Filtration system with gravel $4000
(3) Stand, lights, heater, thermometer electrical $500 (supplies, I did all the work)

So, I am at $9000 now. I figure another grand or so for finishing it up (plants and a few bells and whistles).

RL


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## v4p0r (Aug 14, 2003)

Im just using an enheim 2260 in my 400gal


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## f2esh (Aug 18, 2003)

woah LOL.....so rich


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## caazi (Jul 28, 2003)

What kind of fish is that? He looks like an expensive badass fish.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

Nice tank. Very impressive filtration system. Are you planning on doing anything further with the stand?

~Dj


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

InSinUAsian said:


> Nice tank. Very impressive filtration system. Are you planning on doing anything further with the stand?
> 
> ~Dj


 Thanks. Right now, no plans to close in the stand. It is in the basement, and doesn't really need to be finished. I'm an engineer, so to me, seeing the inner workings has some appeal. I also am concerned about heat build up. The tank is 83-84 F with no added heat. The pumps impart energy to the water and this results in a temperature increase. I've heard that higher temps are ok (as long as you stay below, say, 86F), and that it will result in higher activity and metabolism in the piranha's.


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

caazi said:


> What kind of fish is that? He looks like an expensive badass fish.


 It's a feeder! I just wanted to see if the water was ok. Next I will add a bunch of feeders and let the tank cycle. Then the bad boys come into town and the vacation will be over (permanently) for the feeders.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I think a holy sh*t is in order! Nice work man!


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## rday (Mar 10, 2003)

that is definately the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen. i am amazed. i am in shock. i want!


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

i honestly dont know how to respond to this guy.

KEEP US POSTED!


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## caazi (Jul 28, 2003)

Just don't start lifting more then you can, and say, kinda fall, and uh, maybe "break" the tank. Also, post up pic's when you get it fully planted and driftwooded, that thing will be awesome.


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## Runningmad (Aug 13, 2003)

ralphinnj said:


> Costs, well, I'm 42 years old (older I am guessing than most of you), and it is expensive even for me. The whole set up is roughly:
> 
> (1) 420 gallon tank with delivery $4500
> (2) Filtration system with gravel $4000
> ...


 Want to throw some of that extra $$ to a poor college student?
















man even seeing those pics again i am blown away, definately keep us posted on how this monster tank comes together!


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## alvin (Jan 2, 2003)

Very similar to my setup. Much more elaborate, but the same approach. I run my mechanical and bio/chemical through separate circuits also. Just seemed to make more sense to me. Basically I have 3 pumps in a modified AC 200 wet/dry sump. 1200 gal/hr directly back in the tank (180 gal) for a river type effect. 900 gal.hr into a ocean clear 340 with charcoal, bio media and 25 micron mechanical. This returns from a 3/4 in. to the water surface to create agitation to give oxygen. Finally I run a 9 watt UV with a 300 gal/hr pump inside the sump. The only problem I have encountered with this setup, is the mods to the tank overflow suck feeder into it. So I buy bigger feeders. It took a while to balance out the flow into the wet/dry, but once it was finished it was worth the work. Did Aquanetics recommend such a high flow through the UV? I would assume it is OK with such a high power given enough exposure time. I have just seen people run them inline with high output pumps which does absolutely nothing. I must say, excellent work. John


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

John, thanks for your comments. Aquatic Visions did recommend the pump size and the UV ratings. I don't know what the ideal residence time needs to be. One thing that I am guessing by looking at your numbers is that I can probably get away with a higher flow rate because I have a lot my power in the lamp (57 Watts each). Maybe another way to look at it is:

822 gallons/hour being pushed through 114 Watts (114 J/sec = 410.4 kJ/hr) = 0.499 kJ/gallon, or call it 0.5 kJ/gallon

Your system adds 9 Watts at 300 gph, or 9 Joules/sec = 32.4 kJ/hr) which gives 0.1 kJ/gallon

Now, that is the bulk transfer rate; it can be that some energy escapes and is not transferred to the water. But, rough and dirty, the numbers give an idea of what kind of power you are putting into your water.


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

Has anyone with a large tank had problems with the pumps and UV lights generating enough heat to raise the temperature? My tank is up to 86F with no heaters.


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## Runningmad (Aug 13, 2003)

I am by far not an engineer (Criminology and Sociology major) or a tank expert, but could you get a chiller to help regulate the water temp?


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## icepick36m (Feb 19, 2003)

That is an awesome setup...someday I would love top be able to have a setup like that...when you get it up and going with whatever kind of p's you are going to get a pic is a must.Great job!!


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## alvin (Jan 2, 2003)

Those Iwaki pumps must put out a lot of heat. My tank runs at 76 without a heater. I also keep my house at 64, so that might have something to do with it. I guess there goes the idea of a large mouth bass tank. Thanks for the calc on the UV. I was going to do it, but I was pretty sure anyone spending that amount on a tank would know what they were doing. I'm an aero eng. I know that the fluid temp in centrifugal compressors raises drastically after the compression process due to increased energy in the fluid. So those high volume pumps are to blame for the amount of heat. The only cheap way I could think to cool it would be to run a bleed line through some kind of radiator. Water chillers a kind of expensive from what I have seen. You could always run a 1 in. line into a civic radiator and put an electric fan on it. j/k That would be a geart conversation peice at least. John


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

ralphinnj said:


> 822 gallons/hour being pushed through 114 Watts (114 J/sec = 410.4 kJ/hr) = 0.499 kJ/gallon, or call it 0.5 kJ/gallon
> 
> Your system adds 9 Watts at 300 gph, or 9 Joules/sec = 32.4 kJ/hr) which gives 0.1 kJ/gallon


I find your calculations interesting... So I looked into the Aqua Ultraviolet site to get more info on the required dwell time for your UV setup (since it's the same brand).

For a single 57 watt unit to be used only as a clarifier, a UV dosage of 30,000 microwats/cm2 can be achieved by pumping 3,200 gph through it.

Assuming that you also want to kill viruses, bacteria, algae, yeast, and some species of protozoa, a UV dosage of 90,000 microwatts/cm2 is required. This can be achieved by running 1,066 gph through a single 57 watt unit.

Your pump pushes 822 gph (longer dwell time) through not one but two 57 watt units. Now that's some serious UV power. I don't think you are going to have a problem with most parasitic/bacterial infections in your tank.







Doesn't it seem like overkill though?


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

ralphinnj said:


> Has anyone with a large tank had problems with the pumps and UV lights generating enough heat to raise the temperature? My tank is up to 86F with no heaters.


 If it get too high, perhaps a chiller will be a good idea.

~Dj


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## NJJustin (Jul 3, 2003)

you have the cash, so you should get the chiller. That would suck if you had that great setup running with some monsters p's and you lose them because the temp gets to high.


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## GARGOYLE (Feb 12, 2003)

I would also go with a chiller.


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

I guess the million dollar question is, what temperature range is acceptable for piranha's? Do certain types like different temps, or are they all pretty rugged? I was old that they can survive in anything from 72F to 88F, and something like 82F is ideal because they are the most active at that temperature. Any comments on the ideal temperatu or range?


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## 94NDTA (Jul 14, 2003)

What kind of P's are you getting?


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## ralphinnj (Mar 2, 2003)

94NDTA said:


> What kind of P's are you getting?


 I'll probably mix reds, caribes and some other similar nasty ones....


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

yes 82 degress is a perfect temperature.

how are you planning on heating your tank?


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## iLLwiLL (Jun 13, 2003)

EMJAY said:


> yes 82 degress is a perfect temperature.
> 
> how are you planning on heating your tank?


 did you even read the whole thread before you posted this??

anyways, not that its any concern of yours, but i am curious as to how much your electric bill was impacted by this setup? also, could you insulate the inside of the stand to lower the radiated heat to the tank? mabye a few fans placed at either end of the stand both blowing in the same direction could cool things off a little?

~Will.


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## v4p0r (Aug 14, 2003)

Ive read a few articles about PPl using small fans sin the hood to dissipate the heat from the lights. Im pretty sure there is a thread around here somewhere about it. Im personally not using a hood i just have 2 3' full spectrum florescent lights hanging over the tank I believe im goning to attemp to make a hood withing the next few weeks to keep my P's from jumping out tho.


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## alexm (Aug 18, 2003)

v4p0r said:


> Ive read a few articles about PPl using small fans sin the hood to dissipate the heat from the lights.


You can get panel fans like the ones used in full height racks (computer racks) maybe you could rig up some of these over the lights?

Alternatively maybe you can pump the water thru something like a radiator to dissipate the heat?

Anyway, seriously impressive setup, but I am curious as to how you do maintenance in the tank. It looks like you would have to put a wetsuit on and dive in!


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## alvin (Jan 2, 2003)

See, the radiator idea comes up again! I knew I was thinking that day. Why not try and pull one out of an old VW bug instead of a civic like I suggested. Just kidding. Has a final solution been reached? Just curious. John


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## alexm (Aug 18, 2003)

alvin said:


> See, the radiator idea comes up again! I knew I was thinking that day. Why not try and pull one out of an old VW bug instead of a civic like I suggested. Just kidding. Has a final solution been reached? Just curious. John


 I was thinking of a central heating type of radiator, I doubt the temperature differential or volume throughput would be enough with a car radiator.... unless you had a few in series maybe.....

Failing that, a heat exchanger could work. Maybe something like a hot water tank used in reverse. Run cold mains water through the hot water tank and the tank water through the heat exchanger.

Air conditioning the room would probably help too!


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

blow a fan across the water surface, or onto the surface whichever. it will agitate the water and dissipate heat at the same time. Just an idea.


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## alvin (Jan 2, 2003)

I was just kidding. I brought up the idea earlier, but could not think of a practical aplication for it, so I joked about the civic cause they are everywhere. Anyway, older VW's don't have radiators. The computer fan approach is the right concept, just not enough cooling power for something that is moving. Computer parts do not move, so blowing air on them has the desired effect. The water would be continuously moving and the cooler air would have a negligible effect. God I can't spell worth a crap without spell check. John


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