# Pygo mating process.



## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

To help Dawgz and other people to learn to breed their piranhas, I would like to find out what conditions your piranhas first bred under and do you think that you contributed anything to their breeding, or was it all them (the fish)? We need to find commonalities or requirements to breed.
I don't want this to start out as a straight out questionaire, but be honest an let us know wahat lead up to the mating.

At the time of the first breeding, our fish were on the neglected side. About 6-8 months before they mated, they had what we thought was a fungus. The largest fish died because of this. We learned from this site that it was ammonia burn. The fish and amount of waste became too much for the size tank and filtration. My son Adam was doing all of the maintenance on the tank and fell behind on the cleaning. I'm not blaming the situation on him, I didn't know what their problem was either. After chemical treatments and some water changes the "fungus" seemed to clear up.

Even after having fish for many years, I was not very knowledgeable about the nitrogen cycle and how volitale it can be with fish like piranhas. From what I have learned on Piranha Fury, I realized that the fish never had a fungal infection in the first place, but ammonia burn.

To help Adam in the maintenance of the tank, I bought a Python to clean the gravel. At this point in time the fish were fairly healthy and well fed except for the water conditions. We were having issues with the water being cloudy. I cleaned the gravel, which was absolutely filthy and smelled horrible, and did a big water change. The next morning there were eggs in the gravel.

We also noticed that in addition to the eggs, there were also small fry swimming around. The water cloudiness was caused by the eggs they had been laying increasing the bioload. So they were laying eggs and we had no idea for how long.

We have added a canister filter in addition to the HOB filter and do regular water changes and gravel vacs. They lay eggs about every 10 days. Now there are 2 mating pairs and the get along very well. They had killed the fifth member, probably over competition to mate, I think it was a third male.

So, in our case, we don't know why they started to mate with an out of control nitrogen cycle. 
We really have no idea why they mated in the first place. 
Some things that we do know and have observed are:

1. Most likely the 4 remaining adults are siblings.

2. The females are both larger than the males.

3. For the most part, they all get along very well. Usually no major bites, even while mating.

4. Our fish did not have pristine water conditions to mate.

5. The day before they lay eggs, they do not eat.

6. The day before they lay eggs, they are extremely skittish and aggressive and have tried to
attack me, the algae scraper and the Python.

7. After mating they are all much more calm, even though the males are guarding the nest.

8. The crunching or blowing of the gravel goes on throughout the day with the eggs being laid 
mostly at night.

9. The male does most of the blowing, but the female assists.

10. We first noted the black breeding colors when they were fed live perch and sunfish. This is the 
only time other than breeding that this was observed.

11. They have laid eggs at temps between 74 and 90+. Through a very hot summer they mated 
even though the temperature was off the scale.

12. Four fish breed in a 55 gallon tank.

13. I think pH is around 8.0. I wll check and re-post if I'm wrong.

So, please everyone post your observations so we can further understand the Pygo mating process.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

wow, so , basicly, you done absolutely nothing to make them breed in a very small tank. You have since upgraded to a larger tank, right.


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## soon2breed (Aug 30, 2006)

wow ph is high


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

i Actually got alot of Info Tonite from a Person who actually had success In breeding caribe =)

Gonna put his theories into my project.

Thank you for this thread as well.


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

> You have since upgraded to a larger tank, right.


No. The four adults are in the 55. The 72 bow is the growout tank for the babies.

One point of my post is that our piranhas are breeding regularly and not always in the best of conditions. In the home aquarium, many people have crystal clear water and never feed live foods. Is this how they live in their natural environment? It may be "better" for the individual fish, but are they replicating breeding conditions?



> i Actually got alot of Info Tonite from a Person who actually had success In breeding caribe =)


That's cool. Any info that you can share?


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

SOO much info, but based on caribe actually..... =) too much to list...

Here's one ull never think of....NO filtration(minimal water movement) but alot of airstones.


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

So......Does anyone who has breeding piranhas know what they have done to get them to breed or does it all happen by accident?


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

well the conditions are SUPPOSED TO be right, but we see now that they do it when they want.


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

list some stuff you learned dawgs


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

switch your P's to a holding tank with cold water in it(68 degrees) for a few days, While they are in the cold water, take your other tank and drop water level by 25%, shut off all filtration and keep the temp around 82-84 degrees. Make sure there is no water ciculation, but have LOTS of air stones to provide oxygen for them. Basically replicating the dry season in the amazon, where the water level drops, conditions are horrible, and are on the verge of death(in the wild).

After those few days in your tank with the low temp., put them back into the "Dry season replication" tank. Now, while in this condition, keep an eye on water params, ammonia especialy. Use some ammo-lock. Now, I AM NOT SURE of how long to leave them in like this. I heard 1-2 weeks. But find out for sure before you do it.

When the dry season replication is over, it is now time to replicate the rainy seaon. Do a good gravel vac and fill your tank back to full with real cold water. Start your pumps back up, and resume regular filtration.

This is a method that was told to me, and this is how I understood it. If parts are wrong, please say so so we can all get this done eventually.

Hope this helps some for all.


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

> conditions are horrible


This has been my point about our piranhas breeding. Yes, it's better for your your aquarium fish to have better conditions than in the wild, but that is not a requirement for breeding. What we are looking for are the "triggers".

I guess what you have listed makes sense. It's basically a period of things don't look so good to a period of things are looking better, let's mate.

I think the fish are looking for a cleaner substrate and an abundance of food for they fry. The only other time our fish show mating colors is after a large feeding of *live* food.


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## HOLLYWOOD (Feb 6, 2003)

Although this is a suggested way of getting you piranhas to spawn, and I have tried a similar technique but not as extreme, I can say that this only does one thing :*STRESSES THE HELL OUT OF YOUR PIRANHAS*. I have since kept my piranhas in controlled conditions and used natural temp fluctuations and feedings to hopefully get them to breed. The end goal is to get them to breed under normal conditions rather than forced conditions. Heck I may never get them to breed but whats more important to me is making sure I am giving them proper conditions to survive and thrive normally and not under stressful conditions.



Leasure1 said:


> switch your P's to a holding tank with cold water in it(68 degrees) for a few days, While they are in the cold water, take your other tank and drop water level by 25%, shut off all filtration and keep the temp around 82-84 degrees. Make sure there is no water ciculation, but have LOTS of air stones to provide oxygen for them. Basically replicating the dry season in the amazon, where the water level drops, conditions are horrible, and are on the verge of death(in the wild).
> 
> After those few days in your tank with the low temp., put them back into the "Dry season replication" tank. Now, while in this condition, keep an eye on water params, ammonia especialy. Use some ammo-lock. Now, I AM NOT SURE of how long to leave them in like this. I heard 1-2 weeks. But find out for sure before you do it.
> 
> ...


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

> switch your P's to a holding tank with cold water in it(68 degrees) for a few days, While they are in the cold water, take your other tank and drop water level by 25%, shut off all filtration and keep the temp around 82-84 degrees. Make sure there is no water ciculation, but have LOTS of air stones to provide oxygen for them. Basically replicating the dry season in the amazon, where the water level drops, conditions are horrible, and are on the verge of death(in the wild).
> 
> where did you get your info from sound pretty good
> 
> ...


i dont unerstand the part about putting them in cold water at first shouldnt they be in the tank when you start to replicate the dry season?

is this what your planning on your tub?

i only have 2 caribe so i dont even know if i have a boy and girl , but i plan on experimenting with them and im sure theyll get stress but its for the good of science (or atleast thats what i tell myself)


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

i might give what u said a try if the technique i was told to try does not work.

but im pretty sure itll work =)


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