# SC got a question for about



## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

We know that redbellies turn dark, etc. when preparing for mating, etc.

Now do macs do the same-turn dark that is? Yesterday my two macs-for the first time- turned brownish and kept circuling around each other-looked more like territorial fighting but there was no fighting, just heavey breathing and lots of rough and strong tail moving.

Any info on this is appreciated,


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Most definitely&#8230; Mine turn a deep dark brown some so dark they appear black&#8230; The tail, anal, and adipose fins show hard black lines&#8230; I will try to post some pics today&#8230;. Mine are in Pre-spawn&#8230;. I will capture pics of normal and spawning S.Maculatus&#8230;

The male gets extremely territorial, and won't even let the female near the nest untill it's time..My males stay dark for many weeks before the actual spawn... With black water the golden speckles look kick azz


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

SC they are going at it again now; but this time both tail, and anal fin are almost completely black and they are turning dark brown and doing those circles again. Could it be just territorial fighting, i.e. when they fight do you they turn dark..OR ONLY when mating.. I will try and take pics.


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

Pic 1:

**Those pics are with flash, they are much darker than the pic show**


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

Pic 2:

**I always leave my aquarium with no lights and my water is tea colored because of a new driftwood adition** again they are much darker than those pics.**


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

Pic3:


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

pic 4:


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

pic: 5


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Wow&#8230; Sand as a gravel media&#8230; Should be no problem&#8230; I see you read the link about methods to induce spawning&#8230; That was really kick azz&#8230; I think you will need a spawning material&#8230; I can't say if they will dig in the sand, but probably not good, for the ease in being covered up&#8230;You may be able to buy peat spawning moss in you local fish store&#8230; If not, I can give you a link to a place you can get it from&#8230; It's all organic, leaves, trigs, and of course peat fibers&#8230;Bury it in the sand and weight it down, so about 2-3 inches stick up like a bush&#8230;After that's all set up, leave it alone for a few days.. The water will get super dark with the spawning moss&#8230; Then do water changes every day for 4 days, and leave alone for 3&#8230; Continue the 4 days changes 3 days nothing&#8230; They should spawn on the days of no water changes&#8230;Try to keep the PH stable&#8230; Check before water change and 1 hour after&#8230; Hopefully your driftwood and black water will keep it constant within a 1 hour period..

You should notice the male pecking @ the material, and chasing all fish away from him&#8230; Fin nips will escalate big time&#8230;Remove all plecos if you got any in the tank&#8230;The tank will need to be watched from noon until about 6m&#8230;Other documents lead to these fish being afternoon spawners&#8230;

PS nice shoal.. I like seeing serras together&#8230; You are a brave person and commend you&#8230;I may be trying to shoal S.Manueli&#8230;


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

Thanks SC it was you who gave me the courage to go forward with my project, so I owe it all to you. I will try and get a peat spawning moss and try the water changes technique. Do you think those pics are preparation to mate, or fighting?


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

It's a long hard road from here.. A few expenses on your part&#8230; All the black water, and water changes&#8230; I found myself using 2 bottles a week&#8230; I put double the dosage for hard water or spawning&#8230;

I didn't realize you only have 2 fish&#8230; There are some basic statistics stacked against you&#8230; Male and female&#8230; Let's hope like hell you got a male&#8230; If you do, and he starts his nest building, there is always to option of adding another fish, just more to watch, but it can rewarding&#8230;I think they are easier to raise than reds&#8230; Out of over 900 fry, I lost less than 30 to cannibalism&#8230;Try a mixed diet too.. Fish, beef heart, and shrimp&#8230;

It has been my observation, that once nest building starts, it's about a month before the eggs are laid, so keep constant watch&#8230;


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

Update: Those bastards are tearing up my plastic plants i saw peices floating all over my tank today







my $8 plant!!


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## EMJAY (Feb 27, 2003)

good luck kouma, i hope you get lucky with those. if it gets to the point you have fry, i''ll definitly take some off ya :







:


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

kouma said:


> Update: Those bastards are tearing up my plastic plants i saw peices floating all over my tank today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are very close&#8230; Your fish are doing identically what my fish did&#8230;.When the plants were ripped eggs came in about 2 days&#8230;. The eggs will be a translucent color&#8230; It would be best to remove them immediately&#8230;. My fish ate there eggs almost as fast as the produced them&#8230; Good luck, I hope you have success&#8230;. They are really cool, as fry&#8230;

It may be a good idea to replace platic with real plants .... I don't think is't good to re-landscape yo tank... Just keep a watchful eye, and water change 4 days consecutively...


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## kouma (Sep 1, 2003)

SC today I did water change number 1 from the 4 water changes. I am taking 7gallons (1 bucket) out and putting same in with AquaPlus conditioner and a table spoon of aquarium salt. Anything more you think I should add to the water?

And about that peat plant, LFS doesn't have it. Maybe I will try without it. My water is yellowish I think should do the trick thanks to the driftwood.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

kouma said:


> SC today I did water change number 1 from the 4 water changes. I am taking 7gallons (1 bucket) out and putting same in with AquaPlus conditioner and a table spoon of aquarium salt. Anything more you think I should add to the water?
> 
> And about that peat plant, LFS doesn't have it. Maybe I will try without it. My water is yellowish I think should do the trick thanks to the driftwood.


OMG... I must have left something out... Much more than 7 gallons... More like 30 to 50% water changes a day.... There were times when I did 100% waterchanges on the S.Maculatus... 50% in the morning before work, and 50% after work...I only did the gravel vac every other week...

The water changes must be huge....I used 2 products by Seachem Nutral regulator, and discus buffer to keep PH stable....1 teaspon for each 10 gallons nutral regulator, 1st 2 waterchanges... then 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons the other 2 waterchanges...It will also be good if you have a titannium heater with a dial temperature setting... Drop the temperature about 3 degrees during the night time hours....And bring it back up in the morning....

From the data collected from my personal spawning; It looks like 25% water changes is the bare minimum...I do not know if smaller water changes will work... I never tried... In the future when some of my fry grow to adult, I will perform mulitiple experiments, and get the bare minimum requirements for spawning...

As the the chemicals mentioned above... That is teaspoons per gallon of tank, not water added...


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