# Train your Piranha



## notoriouslyKEN (Jul 31, 2003)

This is a project I am just starting with my Rhom, although I'm sure it will work for all fish. I did a search and could find very little about training your fish. I am not talking about backflips in the water or fetching a stick, but I am talking about training your fish to be more "food aggressive". I only feed my rhom with the light on, but sometimes he won't eat it when I drop it in but the next morning it will be gone. As of Sunday, I have decided that this behavior is unacceptable. When I drop in food, I expect him to hit it instantly. So, I have started a new training regiment which (I hope) will counter this lackadaisical feeding attitude in my fish and bring out his more carnal feeding instincts.

I know what you are thinking, "notoriouslyKEN, how do you plan on going about this amazing transformation in your fish? I'd like to do the same to mine!". Well, my little grasshopper, thank you for asking. I will take his favorite food, in this case octopus (more specifically the tentacles), and offer it to him on a daily basis. However, it will not stay in the tank more than 5 minutes. This will give him ample time to feed if he chooses to and if he doesn't he will not eat that day. I plan on dangling the tentacle (probably a good 12" long) from the lid of the tank which, as a secondary training, will teach him to attack foods that are not lying on the ground. As he adjusts to eating the octopus from the middle of the tank, I will use shorter and shorter tentacles until he is attacking the food at the surface (which will eventually lead to a subsequent goal of mine which is hand feeding).

I often see posts on here about member's fish(es) not eating in front of them. I firmly believe that this regiment will bring out the edacity of your fish come dinner time. I do not expect this to be an overnight change in your fish. Patience is a virtue in this venture as this may very well take months to accomplish (I am on day three), however I believe that this will teach your fish that if it doesn't hit food as it enters the water, it will not get any. As a fair warning, this info is probably more Serrasalmus specific b/c you run a higher risk not feeding a Pygocentrus shoal.

Has anyone tried any other behavior training with their fish? If so, how did it turn out?


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

i did this with my old caribe. i would only feed untill they let something hit the ground then stop. needless to say a month of this turned them into begging dogs. primetime3wise has them now and they are like this still like this. i have not done this with my rhom or my mannie. my rhom as time has passed as become much more agressive and now is a "finger chaser". he eats regularly but normally i feed him right b4 i go to bed so i just toss it in and go to sleep and its gone, but he dsnt really eat in front of me.


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## CyberGenetics (Mar 29, 2009)

Did someone say begging dogs???

This approach will work... it worked with my P's.

I did the same thing (and still do) incept i wont alow it to hit the floor. I feed them with a safty pin and a string. 
Once the food is submerged they only have seconds to respond or i yank it out and they get nothing for that day.

Heres my vid showing this with my Piraya red and then rhom


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

It is basic Psychology also known as classical Conditioning /behaviour

The typical procedure for inducing classical conditioning involves presentations of a neutral stimulus along with a stimulus of some significance. The neutral stimulus could be any event that does not result in an overt behavioral response from the organism under investigation. Pavlov referred to this as a conditioned stimulus (CS). Conversely, presentation of the significant stimulus necessarily evokes an innate, often reflexive, response. Pavlov called these the unconditioned stimulus (US) and unconditioned response (UR), respectively. If the CS and the US are repeatedly paired, eventually the two stimuli become associated and the organism begins to produce a behavioral response to the CS. Pavlov called this the conditioned response

My Elong and Manuelli are both hand Trained.


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## notoriouslyKEN (Jul 31, 2003)

for those that have accomplished this with their piranha, how long did it take?


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## HGI (Oct 27, 2009)

VinceC_69 said:


> Heres my vid showing this with my Piraya red and then rhom


I LoLed at 30secs


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Honestly, I never had a problem with either my pygo's and rhom's eating in front of me...Usually, if you keep your tanks at the higher end of the spectrum, your piranhas will be a lot more active, aggressive, and should expedite the hunger process...just wait for them to start "staring" at you, and/or start to attack the glass whenever you move near it and see if he his constantly making "chomping" motions with his mouth...this process normally should take no more than 3 weeks if you keep your temp at 84 degrees...anyhow, this means that they are hungry and ready to eat (especially rhoms, most pygos are pigs and eat right in front of you)...drop a piece of smelt in there or a bloodworm, and yes even feeders and watch them chow down in no time...Usually this is a process that has to be done once and the old proverbial "breaking the ice" will be established and the piranha should eat in front of you from here on out without exception.


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## T-wag (May 21, 2009)

da manster wat u mean? like dont feed em till they start gettin meaner or what? iv had my serra for 2 months at 82F and he still is sketchy about eating in front of me


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

My dad hand feeds all my serras (this guy is kraaaazy).

I asked him why and how he did it. His theory is: they won't eat because they haven't been taught to eat from humans (more crazy talk). So the first day I got my Sanchezi & Rhombeus he stuck his hand in there and literally played with them. To this day, he sticks his hand in there and pets both fish and they do not mind. I don't recommend this to anybody


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## notoriouslyKEN (Jul 31, 2003)

jamezgt said:


> My dad hand feeds all my serras (this guy is kraaaazy).
> 
> I asked him why and how he did it. His theory is: they won't eat because they haven't been taught to eat from humans (more crazy talk). So the first day I got my Sanchezi & Rhombeus he stuck his hand in there and literally played with them. To this day, he sticks his hand in there and pets both fish and they do not mind. I don't recommend this to anybody


holy shiiiiiiiit that is crazy. I meant to hand feed with my hands above the surface of the water and the food at the top. Don't think I have the balls to pull that off. Your dad is nuts!


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

T-wag said:


> da manster wat u mean? like dont feed em till they start gettin meaner or what? iv had my serra for 2 months at 82F and he still is sketchy about eating in front of me


Twag,
I don't know what to tell you bro!..you got two wussies for fish...but as most of us piranha freaks already know, It's basically a crap shoot with serras and rhoms as the vast majority of them are skittish and shy...I guess I was just fortunate to get some good ones...and yes, when piranhas get really hungry, they start to "eyeball" you and they should make "chomps" with their mouths...this only applies to serras and rhoms...the longest I have ever waited was for my Manny and that took three weeks...He was making these crazy ass "figure 8's" in the tank so then I dropped a piece of smelt in there and he tore up and ate in seconds!...He was after it as soon as it hit the water...BAM!!...every since then, I would feed him every 3rd or 4th day (same with my rhoms) and they would gobble up their food without exception as if I wasn't even there!


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

It took me about 5 Months for My Manuelli to start Eating properly.
My Elong , on the otherhand , Was Taught how to hand feed in under a week of owning him.


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

jamezgt said:


> My dad hand feeds all my serras (this guy is kraaaazy).
> 
> I asked him why and how he did it. His theory is: they won't eat because they haven't been taught to eat from humans (more crazy talk). So the first day I got my Sanchezi & Rhombeus he stuck his hand in there and literally played with them. To this day, he sticks his hand in there and pets both fish and they do not mind. I don't recommend this to anybody


This is how I feed my sanchezi but I use a long shishkabob stick instead of my hand. I find this method reduces waisted food considerably making for better water chem.


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## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

My pygos eat pretty much anything that gets in the tank. I dont put my hands in the water if Im holding food. My 4 year old red will literally come half way out of the water like a dolphin to try and grab shrimp out of my hand before I put it in the water. I "trained" all my pygos in a similar manner. Dropped in the food and what evers left after 5 minutes it comes out. More so I wouldnt forget about it but in return it made the mfairly aggressive at feeding time. Anytime I stop in fron of the tank they all come to the glass waiting for somthing to get plopped in. IM actually nervous about my GFs 2 year old. He still not tall enough to put his hands in but anytime he puts his hand on the glass or his face near it my large tern goes ballistic and tries to bite him. Working on making a canopy that locks soon. I wouldnt use a pin like that guy did in the vid. A piranha could get hooked that way. He fishing or feeding? You guys that actually stick you hand in the tank with food are insane. Especially whoever that was that has that huge rhom and he was flailing a piece of meat in its face lol crazy mofo!


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

I just moved my tank a feet away from where i spend most of my time.. Now they dont even care if i tamp on the glass. They are starting to chase fingers around.

Just get them used to you n they wont give a sh*t if you are or you arnt there while feeding.
They just need to understand you are not there to harm them.


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## T-wag (May 21, 2009)

> Twag,
> I don't know what to tell you bro!..you got two wussies for fish...but as most of us piranha freaks already know, It's basically a crap shoot with serras and rhoms as the vast majority of them are skittish and shy...I guess I was just fortunate to get some good ones...and yes, when piranhas get really hungry, they start to "eyeball" you and they should make "chomps" with their mouths...this only applies to serras and rhoms...the longest I have ever waited was for my Manny and that took three weeks...He was making these crazy ass "figure 8's" in the tank so then I dropped a piece of smelt in there and he tore up and ate in seconds!...He was after it as soon as it hit the water...BAM!!...every since then, I would feed him every 3rd or 4th day (same with my rhoms) and they would gobble up their food without exception as if I wasn't even there!


well i wouldnt say a wussie... becuase when he doesnt eat for about 2-3 days he will eat in front of me but it just take him about 5 mins...he chases fingers every now and then....my only problem is i want him to hit food right when it comes in at the middle of the tank (with the lights on) i think imma try the 5 second rule and see how that works or i might even try hand feeding for a little bit....i post again if i get any progress


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

IMO hand feeding isn't that scary. i used to feed my sanchezi by hand all the time. also if you only feed every 5 days and dont leave it in there more than a few min he should catch on.


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

Piranha arent stupid fish.
My Elongatus Knows what food is and Isnt. I wouldnt worry about it Purposely Biting my hand.
and Besides , I think a Little Elong Bite would be BADASS Scar to talk about.


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## T-wag (May 21, 2009)

lol yeah a scar from a bite would be a nice story haha


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## Armand_caribe (Sep 9, 2009)

Nice thread.

From my own experience, I haven't had any mayor feeding issue with established pygo shoals

My caribe dart as soon as food hits the water followed by the boldest RBP and then the more skittish RBP eat at the end. I might be wrong but my 2 caribe feeding frienzy makes me think that if I tryed to handfeed them my fingers would be in danger.....







:laugh:

Cheers.


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## dclamb (Oct 17, 2009)

T-wag said:


> lol yeah a scar from a bite would be a nice story haha


A scar would make for a nice story, but a Mycobacterium marinum infection would not!


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## Armand_caribe (Sep 9, 2009)

dclamb said:


> lol yeah a scar from a bite would be a nice story haha


A scar would make for a nice story, but a Mycobacterium marinum infection would not!
[/quote]

Not to mention that the scar that a 13" rhom or a 13" piraya would leave you might be one or two fingers missing.....


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