# Too many fish???



## FeederFish33 (Jan 22, 2003)

In my 55 gallon I have:

4 red bellies
3 Exedons (bucktooth tetras)
1 pleco
1 asian red tail cat
1 sh*t barb
1 crayfish


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

How long have these fish been together? What sizes are the fish? Are you going to video tape the feast?


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## FeederFish33 (Jan 22, 2003)

> Are you going to video tape the feast?
> 
> What are you talking about?
> 
> They have been together for about 3 weeks, the piranhas are about 3 inches, the pleco is 2 inches, the barb is 2 inches, the exedons are like 2.5, and the asian red tail is like 4 or 5 inches.


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

Just let us know which of your fish get's eaten first by the piranhas. I think that would be good stuff to learn. I think the barb will be first, then the pleco will get nipped a few times, the red bellies will eat it from the belly up, then the exodon's will gradually disappear. This is my opinion :







: Anybody else have an opinion?


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## Myka (Jan 8, 2003)

Holy crap! I hope you intend on upgrading to bigger tanks REAL quick! First off, those fish aren't even compatible together.

The RTC gets to something like 3 feet long (might be more, but I DO know that get at LEAST this big).

The rule for Piranhas is 20 gallons per Piranha. So, in the end, the 55 will hold THREE Red Bellies, not 4. And it will be FULL.

And you don't have to worry about the rest cuz they're going to get eaten by the RTC and Piranhas in no time.

If I were you I would sell EVERYTHING but THREE Red Bellies.

Also, you said that they have only been together for three weeks? Does that mean that it was a fresh new tank, and you just threw them all in there? WOW, you're going to have an Ammonia and Nitrite spike!

Mindy


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

"Holy crap! " Hey bat girl :







:


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I dont necessarily believe in the 20g per piranha rule. But I think you made a few crucial errors.

a. didnt cycle the tank? They all might die.
b. didnt get a big enough tank. They all might die.
c. Mixed non compatible fish. I got dibs the crayfish will die. Wait until that sucker loses his skin.

I would seperate the other fishies and sell or get another tank for them. Next I would get 1-2 more rbp (MYKA dont kill me) to throw in there to get a nice little pack going. Wait until they get about 4 inches then throw the other fish in there one at a time. Take a video of the feast and submit it here :rockin:


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## luva40 (Jan 5, 2003)

I agree with xenon. Throw at least one more in there and upgrade when they are 4-6". The pleco may survive and possibly the cat.....that all dependw on when you upgrade tanks. The rest will perish and fall into the wrath we all know and love. I was actually thinking of adding a catfish to my tank, but after watching them tear up a fresh 7" long catfish nugget I bought today, I just hope I'm here to watch. Good luck and there is a lesson to be learned here, take pictures in the process.









-Kevin-


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

i think the rtc is going to eat the exodons the the barbs.then the p's will have a fest off fins and tail,the rtc is going to get pissed and eat them.and the pleco and rtc will be happy.just my thought.also this is my way...you should always cycle your tank.if you want to do it right.but in my case i'm lazy ..i don't like to wait i have never -ever cycled a freshwater tank and i have never lost any fish. and i have owned, alot of fish i don't even own a test kit.it can work out but i don't recommand


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## FeederFish33 (Jan 22, 2003)

First of all, I think u are refering to the south american red tail cat, that can grow up to about 5 feet. The asian red tail, has a max size of 26 inches. I would also like to say that I dont care if they die or anything cuz it will be fun for me and my piranhas. I am thinking of adding 1 or 2 more ps though, then i'll have some feeding frenzes. (did I spell frenzes right?)


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## Myka (Jan 8, 2003)

> Zenon: Next I would get 1-2 more rbp (MYKA dont kill me) to throw in there to get a nice little pack going.


WHAT?! You're saying that 5 or 6 RBPs can grow happily to their maximum size without growth stunt in a 55 gallon tank? Are you nuts?

I am a VERY strong believer that EVERY Piranha needs at LEAST 20 gallons per fish, unless you get over 100 gallons, when 15-18 gallons each works. You have to remember the amount of space these fish generally have in the wild (whether captive raised or not)! It is NOT fair to keep potentially 12" fish in such tiny quarters. That's like buying a horse and keeping it in your garage.



> FeederFish33: I would also like to say that I dont care if they die or anything cuz it will be fun for me and my piranhas.


Well, I hope not, cuz that's exactly what's going to happen.

Mindy


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## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

I woulndt necesarly agree with the 20G per P thing its all a matter of setup and each individual fish ... and of course good maintenance and water changes ... but they still need adequate room
get that cat outta there for sure eventually it will take uo the whole tank and wont be able to move


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

> That's like buying a horse and keeping it in your garage.


Good analogy. However, your logic is flawed by a lack of timing and size.



> It is NOT fair to keep potentially 12" fish in such tiny quarters.


His P's will not be 12" for QUITE some time. I would say at least a few more years. Right now they are only 3 inch fish. In 6 more months they will be around 6". In the experience Ive had, 6" P's have plenty of room to grow and thrive in less than 20g per fish. At a rate of growth around 1 inch per year after that, I fail to imagine their growth will be stunted for another few years. This gives FeederFish plenty of time to consider getting a bigger tank.



> I am a VERY strong believer that EVERY Piranha needs at LEAST 20 gallons per fish,


I would like to see the proof of this 20g rule. I am not saying its wrong, by all means give your fish the maximum space possible....but I do not feel it is *mandatory*.

Like I said, I would like to see the scientific proof that this 20g per fish rule is MANDATORY as everyone has been ramming down my throat since ive gotten into these critters (which isnt that long compared to you im sure). You might be asking me to get the proof myself but I feel the burden of proof is on you since you are claiming an _absolute_ and I am simply saying there is flex space here.

Let me know what you come up with.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

This teaspoon measurement of what amount of water a fish needs is as old as the hobby itself. Continuously rehashed by each generation. There is no hard fast rule except one. Give the fish enough space to grow healthy and disease, parasite-free environment. In my opinion, placing any fish in an aquario that allows minimal swimming space is not a healthy environment. So you may ask what would I recommend? Difficult to quantify, because aquariums are built today to follow decor in the home, thus piranhas will never be in a normal situation. So you have the responsibility to give your fish the largest space available to promote growth, free swimming ability and health. Use the maximum size of the fish as your guide and then you will know what size aquarium you will need. Buy aquarios accordingly to facilitate that growth or stunt them which is not permanent condition, but not healthly either.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Buy aquarios accordingly to facilitate that growth or stunt them which is not permanent condition, but not healthly either.


That's interesting.

Does that mean that if you keep fish in too small a tank temporarily (and they're not growing like a specimen with sufficient tank space would do, so are stunted), they could make up for that, and reach their full potential size once they're moved to a tank that's large enough to house full-grown specimen?


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

FeederFish33 said:


> In my 55 gallon I have:
> 
> 4 red bellies
> 3 Exedons (bucktooth tetras)
> ...


I think that the red tailed cat and the piranhas will give each other deadly wounds and all the other fish will survive and take over the tank!
you will be left with sh*t fish and the wrath of Myka! :rasp:


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

"Does that mean that if you keep fish in too small a tank temporarily (and they're not growing like a specimen with sufficient tank space would do, so are stunted), they could make up for that, and reach their full potential size once they're moved to a tank that's large enough to house full-grown specimen? "

This one I can answer for Frank







(at least part of it) Nobody really knows what happens with stunted fish, if they can grow out or not. Native fish which are stocked and not depleted become stunted in their growth. So its common practice to put these into further ponds or lakes where they want to keep a growth a certain size. When I asked Frank this question about piranhas if native fish would suffer the same problems, he said to his knowledge, no. He has gotten piranhas kept in small tanks for most of their lives, moved them into larger quarters and they grew more. So I think there is a difference between genetic stunting and quarters stunting.

If Frank comes back today, maybe he can tell us more. But that's they way I understood it.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

i'm with xenon on this one.ditto


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

fishman2 said:


> "Does that mean that if you keep fish in too small a tank temporarily (and they're not growing like a specimen with sufficient tank space would do, so are stunted), they could make up for that, and reach their full potential size once they're moved to a tank that's large enough to house full-grown specimen? "
> 
> This one I can answer for Frank
> 
> ...


Thanks for the answer: very informative!
I read the other post about stunted growth, so I know enough now...


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