# opionion on these 2 side by side



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

O.k I posted a picture of one of these fish already before.The top 2 are my new irritan,the 3rd is one thought to be irritan by some,and not by others.Here is a comparison,the top one has gotta be irritans,spots more darker and pronounced,more orange around the gills etc..

also the first guy has smaller eyes,the diameter is smaller more beatty looking.

the second guy,I saw another one that looked like him,so could these both be irritans, or the second one possible unrecorded versions or strains??


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

both these guys are 5 inches


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

So what is the question?


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

> So what is the question?


Are these the same species??


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Does the top one have red in the eye, or is it just the picture?


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## PiranhaMaster (Oct 21, 2003)

I see many similarities and a few differences as well. The dorsal/anal fins on pic 3 look to reseamble a young brandti but the pic of the fish is on an angle so it is impossible to be sure. I would suggest that you just give more time for the fish to develop into their adult forms and compare then. Not all fish, even if they are the same species, develop at the same rate or in the exact same color patterns. This may just be development variations.

That being said... if you don't have the patience for that then I would post identical pics of both fish from multiple angles and light variations at the same distance. This would help find a definate difference.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Im not real worried to possitively id the fish,I just thought some would like to see the fish side by side and know that someone has one of each kind.Also thought some people into serras might like this discussion.

im not real good at taking pictures,dont know how to adjust the camera,but he has yellow in the eys both due.

The top fish is a dead ringer for mr hannibals irritans,which is the picture found at opefe website for irritans,I know if I go by opefe's pictures of irritans that top fish is it.

Is the bottem the same fish or not?????I dont know,I do know that the guy that catches these fish out of the river calls the bottem fish "Katrina"????, which is the same fish crownfire posted about that he is getting,cause I have seen both in person.

The bottem fish has the same eyes but the diameter is larger,and the head is some what shapped different.

I wonder why the guy that catches them calls them katrinas,he probually doesnt know much about them.


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## phil (Feb 15, 2003)

the fish in the 3rd pic shown looks like a rhombeus :rock:


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The name Katrina has also been put on few fishes that are Pygopristis denticulata. So goes back to what I wrote about common names.

S. irritans has numerous spots, yellow eyes and a dark "V" tail. I don't see that any of those photos.

What I see is reddish eyes. Again the quality of the photos and angle of the fish is not sufficient to say with any certainty what the fish is.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Here is a photo of Katarina: Photo Credit: Margatino 1998/05/

from Pantanal, Rio Paraguay;


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

thanks for the info frank
















Can you get better id's on fish if you had a video tape??If I made a video of the fish and sent it to you??


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## AzNP (May 21, 2003)

the last pic seems to be a rhom to me

wutever the first fish is it's beautiful
dun look like irritan tho...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> mashunter18 Posted on Jan 29 2004, 12:27 AM
> thanks for the info frank
> 
> Can you get better id's on fish if you had a video tape??If I made a video of the fish and sent it to you??


You can send video if you please. But its would still be a guess without locality data of where the fish was collected. Also the video would need to be much clearer and better angled than the photos you are showing. If you elect to send video, send to:

Frank Magallanes
672 SE Parrott Street
Roseburg, OR 97470

I will not be able to return video to you.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

thanks Frank,I am sending a video monday.I dont know what river they came from but know it was brazil,thats all I have.

whatever opionion you come up with is great,I appreciate you taking the time to check it out.


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## crownfire (Nov 25, 2003)

Has frank responded to the video you sent?


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Frank may not have received the tape yet,then he will probually need a few days to make time to watch it.I havnt heard from him yet, but honestly I dont think I included my email addy with the tape,but I told him my user id on here.

Hopefully when he gets a chance to watch it,it will be better then the pictures on here,and he will post the results,thanks again Frank!!









Matt


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I will let you know when I recieve the video via here. Has not arrived yet and today's land mail won't be here until after 12 noon (PST).


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Video arrived via UPS moments ago. Will look at later tonight and post results tomorrow.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Sounds real good Frank, thanks again


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I had a long look at the video tonight, compared both fishes with S. irritans, S. rhombeus and S. compressus descriptions and images. Your fish does NOT appear to be S. irritans based on characters and descriptions of this species. While I can understand your confusion because of similarities of coloration and body shape, I was able to remove S. irritans from the equation. I saw no coloration of the eye other than the black band. What was evident was pattern of coloration just coming in on the eye orbit, but was not able to discern. I paused the video slide by slide. I was able to see not only the body markings but also anterior (frontal) profile. The fish is NOT S. rhombeus. In comparing S. compressus photos and written descriptions including excellent drawings by Michel Jegu of both juvenile and adult S. compressus, your fish fits this fishes description and image. Both small species on the left and larger on the right exhibited the classic small bars and spots characteristic of S. compressus. I was not able to discern the marginal band on the anal, but was able to see the dark terminal band on the caudal of both fishes. Coloration of body was consistent with S. compressus. Head and snout on ventrally to posterior (flank) was consistent with head shape of S. compressus, not S. rhombeus.

The Catarina pirana may likely be a S. compressus, but I remain uncertain on that because common names are so changeable on species according to what the seller (dealer) dictates.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Wow, I see what you mean, hanging out in this forum im starting to know what to look for.

It appears both fish are s. compressus,pretty cool.I would have to agree then if irritans is eliminated gotta be compressus.

I plan on keeping these guys for along time,I will be very interested in watching these guys grow.

Do you think they are the same species for sure then??
Just for my curiusity and your opionion did you think the eye sizes were different on the two??

It appeared the bottem picture on here,which was the left fish on the tape,had more diamter on the eyes,bigger.

Would you say these guys are more difficult to come by then the irritans??

Ill have to change my signature tommorrow morning
















thanks again frank, for reviewing the video, I apprecite it.

Should I keep track of growth rate or anything,that might be of interest in a few years to see how these guys progress??


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

As you know by this forum, the best one can do is give a good opinion on what a species is via photo. Having the fish in front of me is always best, but not financially viable for all hobbist to do as I cannot return fishes (or videos). As many requests as I get, it is cost prohibitive. As for your fish, I'm confident they are S. compressus. Eye size is individual and not a good indicator for a specific species in most cases. By all means, continue to keep track of your fish with new photos. Thank you for sending the video, they were interesting.


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## MStiers (Mar 21, 2003)

Impressive.


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## crownfire (Nov 25, 2003)

So compressus it is. Are you sure mine look exactly the same? Ash is sending him tonight i'll have him tommorrow. How aggressive are your's?


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

yeah crown, Im about 99% sure your fish is the same as the bottem picture here on this thread.

I saw him and I know he came from the same river.

yours is pretty agressive for being in the smaller tank, I saw him in.
I have had these guys for almost a month and they are pretty agressive now,took some time though.The bottem one was in a 55,then got a divider put up,then got moved to 40,so he has been moved a bunch,but he is settling in nicely.

Your particular fish has an aggressive attitude from what I saw of him,if thats what you wanted, you should be happy,he was nice and big to at least 6 inches maybe 7 if I remember correctly.,maybe bigger really dont remember, just know he was bigger then mine and mine is a solid 5 inches.

If you can post better pics then me,maybe Frank can verify if they are the same.

awesome fish though,definitely post some pics ,alot of people wanted him,when I was at Ashes someone called looking to get him,but you already had the claim.

awesome fish














cant wait to see the pics


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## crownfire (Nov 25, 2003)

Mas, i agree they look alot alike. I've done some reading on the compress.. and they are very rare and in demand i guess were lucky. I dont think alot of members own them. believe pirhana master has on e also. We'll have to compare notes as the years go by. Compressus rock


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

definitely,Im gonna hang on to these guys for along time.

I will try to get a true irritans as well sometime down the road.Even if there not known for sure, I agree great pick ups.
Ash said he has like 3 or 4 more of these,that was yesterday when I talked to him.
Ill definitely keep my eye out for your pictures when he gets settled in


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Just so that you know, S. compressus, S. hastatus, S. altuvei are considered very rare in nature by science, so enjoy them.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

> Just so that you know, S. compressus, S. hastatus, S. altuvei are considered very rare in nature by science, so enjoy them.


I wonder what one is your favorite Frank "hastatus"









thanks again for all the great info


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