# breeding black piranhas



## chris flo

Hello, my name is Chris Florence and I work at the Louisville Zoo in Louisville, Kentucky. I read this forum a lot and was looking for any information available. We currently house two black piranhas separately at our zoo. A 15 inch black is on exhibit in a 300 gallon flooded forest tank that is stained by tannins from the logs and peat in the filter. Our other black is 16 inches in a 180 gallon tank in our basement holding area. We keep them warm, 86 F, have strong currents, and feed them tilapia filets with massivore pellets inside. They are thriving. Anyway, my question is in regards to breeding this species. I have heard of it being done at Shedd Aquarium, but the piranhas ended up killing each other until only one was left. I have no intent to breed them as they cost us quite a bit of money, but I have noticed some interesting behaviors lately. Our air conditioning was broke and our exhibit piranhas tank heated up to about 88 F. This piranha began to exhibit some odd beahviors such as circling the bottom, digging out a hole in the gravel, and guarding the area. I have seen this in red belly piranhas before and it looked very similar. I was wondering if you have ever heard of anyone breeding this species in captivity before successfully and if so what were the results. I was also interested in how to sex them if possible. The smaller black is more compact and sleeker. The bigger piranha is very broad and tall, I have seen these labelled as high backs before in classified ads.
Any info is much appreciated and thank you for maintaining a very interesting and informative forum and website. Take care. Chris


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## FishermanCanada

this is a question for the veterans on p-fury. Ask GG or Frank to get your best answer. Good luck and keep us updated I am interested in the results. good luck


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## ChilDawg

buzzz said:


> this is a question for the veterans on p-fury. Ask GG or Frank to get your best answer. Good luck and keep us updated I am interested in the results. good luck


He put in OPEFE's forum, so I'd say it's in the right place to ask Frank.


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## notaverage

I'm sure Im not the only one thinking this but Pics of those tanks would be GREAT!!!!

I'm sure the experts will chime in shortly.


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## Trigga

I personally I wouldn't risk it because as you said those fish are rather expensive.

Frank might be able to help you but unless you guys have a giant pond you can use for them and someone can monitor their behavior all the time i wouldn't risk it.


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## philbert

i'd love to see pictures of that flooded forest tank. is there a change you could post a few. black rohms can look very different depending on collection points. do you know the collection point of your rohmbeuses?


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## primetime3wise

you could try tossing them both in the 300g, but watch them VERY closely for aggression. that type of setup probably only has been tried a handful of times. a huge problem is you don't even know if you have a male and female between the two fish. its 50/50, and a 300g might even be too small for that project.

so i pretty much defer to frank, like everyone else. i think you need an even bigger tank, i'm talking mammoth.

as far as the breeding goes, its harder with serras, in general, and you need "two to tango". i have 9 gold piranhas (s. maculatus) split into two 75g tanks, 4 and 5 each. in one of them a male (i think a male cuz he digs into the gravel) has been showing signs for a few weeks now, but none of the other fish seem interested. one did for a day or two, but other than that, nothing.

another thing i thought of as far as tank size, is, would they even have enough room ,in even a 300g, to do the actual breeding? those two rhoms are huge.


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## Trigga

agreed with primetime youd be taking a major risk in introducing the other rhom since they supposedely excrete a faramone that makes other rhoms super pissed of at them and visa versa, especially if it isnt a m/f then youd be screwed by the time you guys opened up in the morning.


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## chris flo

Thanks for the information everyone. I have no intentions of putting these two beasts together
due to several factors such as space, observation time, and money. I mainly am interested in
any results/ info that others have witnessed or tried. I personally would like to get some young
rhombeus' and raise them up to try in the future, but am limited by resources and space there as
well.
The reason I asked this question was to see if anyone else has seen the behaviors exhibited by
our exhibit rhombeus and if anyone has a method of sexing rhombeus; whether it be body shape,
anal fin shape, etc. I heard Shedd Aquarium bred them in a 3000 gallon tank, but after a short 
time only one adult survived. 
Thanks to everyone that has responded, any info is good info and benefits all of us rhombeus 
keepers. They are awesome fish that are very rewarding to keep and observe. I will try to get 
some pics up, but everytime I take a picture of the piranha the flash washes out the tank and
takes away from the blackwater effect since our display area is so dark. I will keep trying though!
Once again, thanks everyone and take care. Chris


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## Dr. Giggles

The only known breeding of Rhombeus occurred if i am not mistaken in a 1000 gallon outdoor pond in Florida at or near an abandoned amusement park in the late 70's and the only breeding of rhombeus in a kept aquarium occurred in Germany in 1977 I believe at the Duisburg Zoo in germany. The shedd aquarium incident I believe involved Sanchezi.


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## bobme

I my self would like to try in a 16,000 gallon outdoor pond. but really i dont think in the lhat 25 years it has been done


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## Tensa

Would it be possible to vent the P's I believe that is what its called in order to determine their sex and if indeed there is a male and female pair to just introduce the sperm and egg artificially with minimal risk to the parent fish? I did search for this answer but all I saw was that it wont work no real reason as to why it wont work on p's. I know on some fish farms they vent the fish and introduce sperm and egg manually so i was curious why it wouldnt work on p's.


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## ChilDawg

AS fan said:


> Would it be possible to vent the P's I believe that is what its called in order to determine their sex and if indeed there is a male and female pair to just introduce the sperm and egg artificially with minimal risk to the parent fish? I did search for this answer but all I saw was that it wont work no real reason as to why it wont work on p's. I know on some fish farms they vent the fish and introduce sperm and egg manually so i was curious why it wouldnt work on p's.


I think I know why venting Rhoms is a bad idea...who wants to dig up therizman1's thread...? (And I don't know if it's worth it to use MS-222 to try to make the process a little less, well, snappy...)

As for expressing the eggs and sperm, it really depends. I haven't seen that happen with a lot of fishes, only koi and goldfish, so I don't know if it would work on ps as they aren't Cyprinids. Maybe it's just easier with certain types of fishes?


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## Tensa

Thats what I was thinking but I have seen it done on fish like salmon and trout and I didnt see why it wouldnt work on a large rhom.


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## Demon Darko

Any Updates, Very interesting thread.


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## cueball

The funny thing is it seems like theres only one link missing the the captive breeding of rhom's they breed by the thousands in the wild, it really don't make since to say NOPE THESE WONT BREED. Sure there not guppyies but ill bet someone has breed them"not everyone in the fish keeping world has a pc or even comes on p-fury"...

theres just to many un-writen steps.


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## Demon Darko

agreed. If you don't try to do something, it will never happen.


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## boiler149

it has to be possible...


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## ...Jay...

The problem with artificial insemination is that the female would have to be ready to lay with a stomach full of fully developed eggs. Getting her to make those would be difficult at best.

The best shot IMO would be a separater. Lots of people breed aggressive fish that way. The male can even fertilize the eggs from his side of the tank if there are holes in the seperater. Egg Crate works.


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## Plum

Jayson745 said:


> The problem with artificial insemination is that the female would have to be ready to lay with a stomach full of fully developed eggs. Getting her to make those would be difficult at best.
> 
> The best shot IMO would be a separater. Lots of people breed aggressive fish that way. The male can even fertilize the eggs from his side of the tank if there are holes in the seperater. Egg Crate works.


We would need to come up with an alternative to egg crate I think though.

Egg crate + 16" pissed of Rhom =


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## Dr. Giggles

Plum said:


> The problem with artificial insemination is that the female would have to be ready to lay with a stomach full of fully developed eggs. Getting her to make those would be difficult at best.
> 
> The best shot IMO would be a separater. Lots of people breed aggressive fish that way. The male can even fertilize the eggs from his side of the tank if there are holes in the seperater. Egg Crate works.


We would need to come up with an alternative to egg crate I think though.

Egg crate + 16" pissed of Rhom =








[/quote]
True that.


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## boiler149

lol true ^^^


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## Yanfloist

interesting indeed!


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## Us And Them

I noticed he said the tank is kept at 86 isnt that a Little hot ?
at hottest I wont go past 82 .

Perhaps the reasons why they are digging holes is because Your Water Params are off. Your water is too hot.


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## upgradepc

yeah 84 should be the tops. the aggression would be crazy at 86.


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## jp80911

I think he said it was at 88F. I wonder why there isn't any update on this interesting topic


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## CLUSTER ONE

somethign like acrilic would work as a divider since its fairily strong, but if you tried to breed rhoms, im not sure i would want to try it with two monsters. Theres a chance they could breed, but theres also a chance of death for a 500-1000$ fish


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## primetime3wise

agreed w / sean. i don't know if even a 300g would be enough to try it in. and, i doubt anyone with two 15" rhoms would want to risk it. also, there is only a 50/50 chance that the OP/zoo has two of the opposite sex.


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## RRice

I just love how he is feeding them tilapia with massivore stuffed in it. That was my idea for my GDR, just have to get him to eat nonlive


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## jp80911

RRice said:


> I just love how he is feeding them tilapia with massivore stuffed in it. That was my idea for my GDR, just have to get him to eat nonlive


Mine too, but those damn convicts always hit the food much faster than my rhom. really wish he would kill them off sometimes.


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## Gigante Pirana

I tried keeping them together in various scenarios in mostly 500 gallon tanks over the past 25 years . Never worked. Last year I had a 6 inch rhom last with my big 17 inch guy for 6 months and then one day the 6 inch rhom completely dissappeared. This was the closest I ever came to keeping 2 together and just maybe establishing some kind of relationship towards breeding!


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## primetime3wise

i'm trying to get a snapshot as i write this...

my 14" peru rhom is really fired up today. the outside weather being warm has warmed the tank temp up to 85. he's being extremely active, all over the tank, and even a few times has been putting his nose into the gravel, in what appears to be nest building.

it's kind of exciting, though i have no plans to try and introduce a female. just thought i would share.


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## primetime3wise

probably nothing, he just shortly went vertical a few times and moved a little gravel. the hot weather though def. had him fired up.


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## peanutpiranha

what makes you say "he" is a male ?
and ive seen some of my p's do that to the gravel sometimes, was it just before or
after a feed cos they forage in the gravel/against plants etc for food sometimes
when not even in spawning mode etc


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## primetime3wise

he/she, whatever. like i responded to my original post it was probably nothing. got a little too excited seeing this behavior only because it was first time.


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## primetime3wise

Gigante Pirana said:


> I tried keeping them together in various scenarios in mostly 500 gallon tanks over the past 25 years . Never worked. Last year I had a 6 inch rhom last with my big 17 inch guy for 6 months and then one day the 6 inch rhom completely dissappeared. This was the closest I ever came to keeping 2 together and just maybe establishing some kind of relationship towards breeding!


did you (or anyone else who reads this) ever have or hear of a female that laid eggs?

i ask because there is, at the time of this post, someone selling a 13" female, on another board. she has pics of the eggs it has laid.


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## Fishnut2

Prime,

I'm a newbie here, so treat my advice as such. But I'd pick up that fish ASAP. At least you'll have a known female. There's no guarantee that the eggs are viable. But it's a great start. I'll be trying to breed Rhoms with some 8" fish. So please share any info you pick up. It'll be greatly appreciated. 
Best of luck!


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## primetime3wise

it's a little tempting as i have NOT heard of a female even laying eggs. however, i only have a 125g and that would be for two huge, 13"-14" rhoms. plus the cost of another rhom and the probability one would kill the other. if i was to do it i would try it with a divider in there. not sure how that works though for breeding fish. not really looking to hard to do it, the cost of another rhom is high. she;s not too far from me, the selller, so maybe i could rent it, lol.

i am highly doubtful it would work, which is what keeps me from even trying.


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## JustJoshinYa

ive been working with my friend who is a homeopathic practitioner who also does radionics in trying to come up with a method for sexing piranha, its still in the works its based on the radionic theory that everything has its own unique set radionic pattern or frequency, thats how my friend tests for certain viral and bacterial infections he can see if your body has bad bacteria in it by testing you for those frequency patterns that the bad bacteria gives off, like candida

ive asked him to make a profile for the radionic frequency of the eggsac on piranha that way we will see if we can radionically test for eggsacs inside the fish if one is found positive then we would know that the fish in question is female if one is found false then it is most likely not a female, its still in its beginning stages and would require alot of work to actually create the profile and test for the eggsac my friend would have to aquire a few samples and see how broad the radionic frequency is for the varying egg sacs and then we will know what we are working with.

just a theory at this point but thats how alot of things start off as theories until proven either wrong or correct


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## Fishnut2

Prime,
You can do it!







You already bred the other 2 types. I'd definetely use the divider though. I'd buy that female myself...if it wasn't a 6 hour drive each way.


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## primetime3wise

yes, BUT all those fish were 6-8" and somewhat able to be cohab'd... not fish that have the teeth of 13-14" ones. we'll see, i don't know how they could breed through a divider, i have to look at that.


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## jp80911

primetime3wise said:


> I tried keeping them together in various scenarios in mostly 500 gallon tanks over the past 25 years . Never worked. Last year I had a 6 inch rhom last with my big 17 inch guy for 6 months and then one day the 6 inch rhom completely dissappeared. This was the closest I ever came to keeping 2 together and just maybe establishing some kind of relationship towards breeding!


did you (or anyone else who reads this) ever have or hear of a female that laid eggs?

i ask because there is, at the time of this post, someone selling a 13" female, on another board. she has pics of the eggs it has laid.
[/quote]

I remember seeing that some where, either here or on MFK...can't remember.
one of my rhom's belly has somewhat swelled up a bit...could it be eggs?? how sure how old is it but it's only 6.5" when I got it.


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## blbig50

primetime3wise said:


> it's a little tempting as i have NOT heard of a female even laying eggs. however, i only have a 125g and that would be for two huge, 13"-14" rhoms. plus the cost of another rhom and the probability one would kill the other. if i was to do it i would try it with a divider in there. not sure how that works though for breeding fish. not really looking to hard to do it, the cost of another rhom is high. she;s not too far from me, the selller, so maybe i could rent it, lol.
> 
> i am highly doubtful it would work, which is what keeps me from even trying.


Out of total curiosity, and no intentions of getting it. Where is it, and how much is it???


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## primetime3wise

she is in kent, oh and i believe wants $550 for it


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## Fishnut2

I just got my 2nd Rhom 10 minutes ago. Baddfish dropped it off. So mine are already setup with an eggcrate partition. They are in a 125 with a Whirpool canister filter, 30 micron filter element, and a showerhead spraybar @ 650 GPH. Both Rhoms are about 8". Substrate is 3/8" red flint gravel. Once they settle in...I should be able to sex them within 2 weeks.
Please pickup that female Prime. I could use a breeding buddy to share tips with!


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## primetime3wise

Fishnut2 said:


> I just got my 2nd Rhom 10 minutes ago. Baddfish dropped it off. So mine are already setup with an eggcrate partition. They are in a 125 with a Whirpool canister filter, 30 micron filter element, and a showerhead spraybar @ 650 GPH. Both Rhoms are about 8". Substrate is 3/8" red flint gravel. Once they settle in...I should be able to sex them within 2 weeks.
> Please pickup that female Prime. I could use a breeding buddy to share tips with!


i wish you luck. how are you thinking you can sex them?

could you get some pics of your setup? i just don't see how they could breed w/ an egg crate there.

yours are 8"? that's a good size because a bite is probably gonna do a lot less damage than 13"-14" ones.

"gigante piranha" responded to a pm from me and said that in many many years of trying to keep them together in various scenarios, he never had any success. at the same time, he said he never saw a rhom expel eggs or come close to building a nest.

also, frank/hastatus said the supposed eggs could just be poop. however, they are pale white and round like eggs, so i do think they are eggs:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/s...ghlight=piranha


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## locust

Would be interested to hear how your going to sex them. I got 2 at 13ins and 14ins , dont think id contemplate putting them together in 1000 gals, its so obvious what would happen, they hate each other across the room.


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## Fishnut2

I showed Baddfish how to sex them today...and he was picking M/Fs before he left. And these were fish he never saw before today. I'll explain it the best I can. But seeing it as I explain, helps a lot.

Nature provides the females with a bigger cavity to accomodate the eggs. That's why in a shoal of fish from the same spawn...the females will "almost" always be bigger. They have a wider area to store food, and will eat more. Even though some males will be more aggressive, they will stop eating sooner. I watch my fish before/during/and after feeding. So after watching them for a week...it becomes very obvious which are M/F in adults. I'm not positive this will work for the Rhoms...but it should!
So assuming you have the same aged fish, that have recieved an ample amount of food...the females will be bigger. They will also be thicker in girth. Especially in the midsection. If I could show you this as I explain...you'd be sexing them within 5 minutes.
It's a little like sexing angels. It's hard to explain...but once you know how to do it...you just know. And it becomes easier every time you try.
I know some people will argue about this, and say I don't know crap. That is thier opinion...and I respect that. Just ask Baddfish what he saw today, in my fishroom. For not knowing crap...I sure have a LOT of fry!


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## primetime3wise

your possibly correct. in support of your theory, i will say that i distinctively remember the female s. maculatus always being slightly larger than the males when any of my 3 pairs hooked up. plus, i think i could sex them on the fact that the males would take a territory, while the female would usually stay near the territory but at the top of the tank.

there's still a lot of grey area though, there, and i don't think it could ever be 100% with massive rhoms or any p for that matter.


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## locust

Yes i think the theory holds water , it can be observed when growing fish on from juves, you can see moreorless what you`re saying in reds (that arent overfed), but im sure a rhom say at 13ins that has spent a few years in a tank that is a good feeder will develop a distended stomach whatever the sex.


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## jp80911

Here's the link to the female rhom that laid eggs.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=94117


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## primetime3wise

that thread is a year and a half old. i did pm her to ask if it laids eggs only that one time, or more than that.


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## blbig50

If they were actually eggs, and it layed eggs regularly, and you had another rhom, could you transfer the eggs into the tank with the other rhom, and hope that it was a male and fertilize it???


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## Fishnut2

I doubt it BL. The best chance would be a male fertilising through a partition...unless they were actually together in the tank. The male wouldn't fertilise them without any pre-spawning activity. He'd probably feast on the caviar. (Just my opinion...I obviously can't prove that)


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## blbig50

makes sense, just a though


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## Fishnut2

Keep the thoughts coming BL. It's gonna take some creative thinking to accomplish a captive bred Rhom. I read on Opefe (I think) how an attempt to artificially inseminate them wouldn't work either. The trout farms in Arkansas only hatch artificially inseminated fry...which is done at one facility. They ship the eggs to the hatcheries, for hatching and grow out. But the trout spawning cycle is very predictable. Rhoms aren't (so far).


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## JustJoshinYa

leave the two rhoms in one tank with a partition.... light some candles turn off the lights and put on a good "movie" and leave them alone for 3 days and bang boom presto baby rhoms

maybe use some of the videos of RBP breeding its like piranha porn

well that would work for me but whatever....


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## blbig50




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## primetime3wise

i'm going to speculate that it's probably a similiar issue with piraya...needing an enormous tank to breed in. though, you don't have to worry as much about them ripping each other's heads off. piraya have NEVER been bred in captivity as far as i know. did anyone ever hear anything different??


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## locust

^Nope, seen a vid of one ( assumed male) blowing in a nest for hours on another site.
My friend has a 220 UK gal tank with a supposed fat female at 15ins and a couple of smaller fish ( assumed males as they are slender ) that from time to time go black and harass the "female" and have to be put in solitary.


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## primetime3wise

locust said:


> ^Nope, seen a vid of one ( assumed male) blowing in a nest for hours on another site.
> My friend has a 220 UK gal tank with a supposed fat female at 15ins and a couple of smaller fish ( assumed males as they are slender ) that from time to time go black and harass the "female" and have to be put in solitary.


but that's just pre spawning behavior, not actual breeding, eggs, and fry.


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## locust

^ Really?


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## SpeCiaLisT

hmmm. I haven't been on this forum for a very long time, but heres an idea. If you get a big fish tank (idunno maybe +300gal tank). spilt it in half with a acrylic divider and leave the bottom about half inch from the bottom of the tank and lets imagine the female laying the eggs and somehow rolling under the acrylic divider..like this


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## Guest

okay here is my opinion on the divider/eggcrate technique....

It wont work. I have bred many types of fish (never attempted piranha...yet...lol) and it is in my personal opinion that they need the actual physical some what aggressive interaction to stimulate the females to release their eggs. They wont get that with a divider.

Also you guys are assuming/hoping that they will build thier nest next to the divider. The chances of this happening are slim. I say buy a large plastic stock tank of at least 1K G and start there, you can pick one up for about $350 US and plumb it however you like.

This thread will be interesting to follow


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## Fishnut2

I tend to agree with you on the stimulation and actual egg release. But earlier in the thread, somebody posted about a female releasing eggs on her own. So it does seem possible. Just very unlikely. I believe if there is egg release, there's about a 75% chance the male will attempt to fertilise them. But that is TOTAL speculation on my part.


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## primetime3wise

here's a pm from "gigante piranha", who has been in this a lot longer than most of us:

"Kevin I would only try it if I had a 20 ft by 10 ft tank and even then you will learn that rhoms do not care about hunger, space or other possible factors that may normally drive another fish to attack its tankmates. Rhoms just do it! Especially if it is another rhom and especially if it is simmilar in size where it derives an immediate threat. I 've had sevaral occassions where rhoms that were over 14 inches ended up meeting each other because the divider broke because the fish themsselves broke it or because I did not secure it properly. In all cases it was a matter of hours or less that one was badly beaten to near death. Theorectically it may work with the divider but imagine if you did and you had a few hundred rhom frys and you knew they were immediately going to attack each other. Would it even be worth it???"

so, pretty much even if a divider is used they could still break through. MORE importantly, and i didn't think about it much, try keeping all the fry together and knowing they will go after each other. When i bred macs, after they go to the size they could do damage to each other, like 4-6 weeks, the cannibalism got pretty bad, and that from a serra you can cohab fairly well past the 3-4" mark. i can't imagine what it would be like for rhoms. you'd probably have to go with those miniature beta tanks that hang in your aquarium.

back to the divider... even if it holds, i just don't see them hooking up through it, but that's largely speculation. i wish more of the vets were here to give their opinion on this, esp. frank, but i just don't see it happening.

bottom line for me, is that there is no way i will try it with my 14" one and another. why risk losing one that size? plus sexing isn't nearly 100%, imo., and the laying of eggs is so rare an event. i know the one that laid eggs in the ad was over a year ago, and am not sure if that was a one time thing or if the female still is.

i am MUCH more apt to trying to breed my piraya when they reach adulthood. i know the odds are probably long and people have tried it before and failed, but i would like to think it is still more likely than rhoms. i don't know if anyone has tried geryi as well, but it would be great if it happened with piraya and geryi considering the odds and in demand the fish are.


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## Blue Flame

I had a pair of flowerhorns lay eggs, and fertilize them through an eggcrate divider a few times. My friend had that happen with his big cichlids too. IDK about big P's though. I guess it could happen, but P's have a totally different personality than cichlids do. I would think, it probably won't happen.


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## Uncle Jesse

Well lets say it does happen. What would you do with them? There is no way you would be able to find homes for all of them, since they have to be kept alone. Fish stores would maybe take 5 to 10 of them at best.
I think even if you successfully breed them it would still be a loss since about 90 % would not even live long enough to find a good home.


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## Guest

I dont think its about raising the fry. Its entirely about doing what has never been done.


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## blbig50

ksls said:


> I dont think its about raising the fry. Its entirely about doing what has never been done.


I agree, I think raising the fry is something that you would have to worry about later. Though if you were to luckily get two rhoms to breed you would have to worry, but now its a matter of breeding them. Do we even know the minimum size of a rhom that you could breed with?


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## primetime3wise

with large rhoms, 12"+ i bet you would have to have an enormous tank because they have to feel comfortable to breed and i just can't see something even 72" long working for that, esp. divided. that's why if someone tries it i think smaller ones would have a better chance, those in the 6-8" range.


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## Fishnut2

Prime,
Thanks for sharing that PM. He makes some good points. Personally; I'm not going to worry about the fry until they spawn. Who knows, tank-raised Rhoms might be less aggressive. As far as tank size/mature Rhom size/ and breeding through a partition...nobody knows for sure...until they ARE spawned. I think more people would be willing to try...using a partition. Not many of us can afford a 1,000 gallon tank. And even less of us have room for one. All we can do is to try different methods.


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## blbig50

I already mentioned this to fishnut, but another way to try with the divider is to have a 180 gallon or bigger, divide the tank into thirds, and put in 3 rhoms to increase the chances.


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## primetime3wise

problem with even a 180g, divided, with med sized rhoms is they need tank space to feel comfortable and get "in the mood". i'm starting to sound like "debbie downer", BUT i think you should try it, fishnut. you could open the door to others trying all sorts of species that have not been bred.


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## Fishnut2

I'm already trying. I setup the tank and got my 2nd Rhom last week. It's a 125 with an egg crate divider.Today was the 1st day they were hanging out by the divider. Before that, they stayed at opposite ends of the tank. At the suggestion of Baddfish, I used 1" PVC for supporting the egg crate. The legs are about 12" long, and filled with gravel to increase stability. I may get 2 more Rhoms, and switch them out every 6 months, if there's no pre-spawn activity.


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## EZmoney

Wow, Fishnut2! You don't waste any time!!!








I hope the best for ya breaking thru the barrier of rhom breeding!
Post some pics!


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## Fishnut2

We've waited long enough!


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## blbig50

Fishnut2 said:


> We've waited long enough!


Glad you're taking the leap, we need some pics though!


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## memento

Actually I must say I have quite some respect for trying it. Indeed, don't bother about the offspring, it's about the spawning itself.
I really don't remember, though I háve read somewhere about succesful spawnings. 
The method they used was indeed using a divider to get the fish "into each other". A raised temperature and dropping of waterlevel helped getting them in the mood and they took away the divider on the "hottest" moment.
They spawned and immediately after, the divider was returned to prevent them from fighting when the temperature was slowly lowered again while waterlevel was raised.

Both fish were transferred to different tanks to prevent them from attacking the offspring.

More details about it I don't seem te be able to recollect since I realkly don't remember where I've read it.

However the meaning of their article was, that they felt rhoms wíll breed in a large tank but, since they have a widespread area in wildlife, it might be very well possible that the lowered waterlevel and increased temperature is required to resemble a start of the dry season.
That might also explain why afterwards they tend to kill each other and the offspring : with the drying of rivers, they become more agressive to each other.


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## blbig50

Good post Lucien though I wish you had a link or something to back it up. Still, good post.


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## fury

OR A VIDEO

this does not mean i don't believe you


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## ismheg

1


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

ismheg said:


> i myself never bred rohms but i got a cousin who knows a few people who have. and he told me abit about it. you need a tank at least 1500+ (generally 2000+ is recommended) gallon tank that is WELL planted with ofc real plants (there were specific kinds but i have no idea what they are :S)... you also need a pump to create an average current and a fountain which will "make rain". as for female or male i have absolutly no idea how to differentiate. you also need to divide the huge tank in half, with a glass divider to see through...have a look and monitor them closely. if they do seem to show any sort of aggression (face off, smashing against the glass divider etc.) i would suggest you move them as these two will defenitly not breed, but if they seem to walk parallel to each other or take a run to the other side of the tank and come back slowly then you probably have a breeding pair. just some info which might help, maybe some1else can add more details
> 
> and just to make it clear, i am not responsible for any losses


your cousin knows a FEW people who have bred rhoms? i would love to see some proof of that...


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## ismheg

what kind of proof can i give about that topic lol? i cant get nay pics since i am not even in teh same country as my cousin and even ifi was i wouldnt share anything like that here


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

ismheg said:


> what kind of proof can i give about that topic lol? i cant get nay pics since i am not even in teh same country as my cousin and even ifi was i wouldnt share anything like that here


right....


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## ismheg

well, there have been many reports of successful breeding of black piranhas and elongatus' itsj ust nobody knows about them. anyways no need to get angry over the internet. just thought id share some of my experience with the guy who wanted to know. doesnt effect me whether you believe me or not i didnt provide this info for you its for the person who posted this topic


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

ismheg said:


> well, there have been many reports of successful breeding of black piranhas and elongatus' itsj ust nobody knows about them. anyways no need to get angry over the internet. just thought id share some of my experience with the guy who wanted to know. doesnt effect me whether you believe me or not i didnt provide this info for you its for the person who posted this topic


who's getting angry? not me...

i just said that i would like to see proof of your claims, otherwise it's just another "i know a guy who knows a guy..." story.


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## notaverage

^^YUP^^^


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## ismheg

well as i said i still dont know why it concerns you. i posted this for the guy who asked for it so you dont need to worry as you will probably never be breeding rohms


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

ismheg said:


> well as i said i still dont know why it concerns you. i posted this for the guy who asked for it so you dont need to worry as you will probably never be breeding rohms


wow, defensive much?

when you start making claims that you know of people that have bred rhoms and elongs, you should expect that people are going to ask for proof. your defensive attitude only casts further doubt, all i said was that i would like to see proof of your claims, and you have resorted to taking pot shots at me... that's very grown up of you.


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## ismheg

i am only 15 unlike most of the 30 yr olds here who need to get a life. i didnt make a claim i provided info to a poor man who asked for it. and i listed the source of which i got this info from. and even if i do breed piranahs i would never share anything here because this is all my hard work and i wouldnt let you guys take the easy way


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## His Majesty

ismheg said:


> *i am only 15 *unlike most of the 30 yr olds here who need to get a life. i didnt make a claim i provided info to a poor man who asked for it. and i listed the source of which i got this info from. and even if i do breed piranahs i would never share anything here because this is all my hard work and i wouldnt let you guys take the easy way


Alex is that you??









anyway im calling fake on this rhom breeding. 
scientists and people with huge resources have tried breeding rhoms in captivity and it has not been succesful. i doubt a 15 year old who knows not much more than an average hoobyist is gonna be able to breed rhoms.
and i dont care what you say about your cousin knowing a few guys who have bred them. this sort of succedful breeding on large fish does not go unnoticed. your full of BS

and in my experience people who tell others to get a life usally need to get a life themselves

so pack up your doucheness and take it elsewhere


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## ismheg

all you need to google is breeding rohms or breeding black piranahs or anything like that and see the millions of people and pages


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## philbert

there has been one known documented case of rhoms breeding its on opefe. other wise it hasn't been documented. nobody will ever believe you on an online forum. hastatus runs opefe the most respected place for SCIENTIFIC research. there is were one place is. with out proof you are going to be constantly confronted about how legit this is. why not sack up and provide some proof? instead of being defensive. if you weren't going to post that stuff here why bother saying it here.?

google "breeding black piranahs" all that shows up is what you puked out about tank size and whatever "should be done" to do it not one place does it show fry or eggs or anything. please enlighten all of us who have been members on here for years to your 4 days that don't know anyone who has bread rhoms. so please all mighty 15 year old show us the way. post one line that shows 2 rhoms together eggs fry anything that might support your claim.


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## Ægir

IF anybody actually did this, they would want the world to know... And they wouldnt want to keep it a secret.

*You would be a god amongst men* in the fish keeping world, and could also be collecting tons of cash out of the deal.


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## bigshawn

Wow


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## primetime3wise

2000g tank....check..wait...


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