# Bowfin



## generalbill (Mar 24, 2004)

I just aquired a 14 inch bowfin 16 days ago. I have it in a 150 gal. tank and it very rarely leaves the corner where I have plants for it to hide. It has only eaten 1 goldfish and has very little movement. I raised the temp. from 70 degrees to 80 degrees to see if it would become more active with only minimal results. Any suggestions as to the problem or is this normal? All the research I did before I aquired the fish described them as active and having good appetites.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

You know bowfins are a cold water fish, right? They are rarely in temps beyond 72 degrees. Lower the temp to 65 or so( gradually of course). In addition, they do need well oxyginated water.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Sorry Slant Bowfin are not hardly coldwater fish they are temperate
and can tolorate temps from 32 to 105 degrees, they do not need well oxygenated water as they obligate air breathers. the best temp for a captive one is around 70 to 75 F.

Bowfins are very tempermental fish and if stressed go downhill fast.
a fish of that size should bounce back if given time.

Give him a good hiding spot and just feed a few worms right after turning the lights out. Just make sure he's eating about once a week
and keep an eye out for weight loss.

Give him time he should bounce back and adapt then you will have quite a terror on your hands.

Good luck.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> Sorry Slant Bowfin are not hardly coldwater fish they are temperate
> and can tolorate temps from 32 to 105 degrees, they do not need well oxygenated water as they obligate air breathers. the best temp for a captive one is around 70 to 75 F.


Well, seeing as they hail from North America, which includes the Great lakes, St. Lawrence, Minnesota - they are found in colder waters. 55 - 72 is their ideal range. Though they are also caught in Texas and the Mississippi, they stay in colder, moving moving waters, where they can flourish. Which brings me to aeration. Though they do have a swim bladder, which they use as an accessory breathing organ, it is mainly utilized in the summer months where water temps are warmer and oxygen levels are lower. Prolong exposure to this environment where low oxygen is prevalent and the bowfin is forced into utilizing its accessory breathing organ has been case for some problems when in the home aquaria. They should not be regarding as a tropical fish, possibly temperate, but only do to the fact that they are hardy and can tolerate such temps. IMO, and according to at least 3 of my references, these should be thought of more as a cold water fish. But I do see what you are getting at poly.

edited for typos and wording


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Slant, 
They are not coldwater fish and the prefered temp is not 55 to 72.
it is variable depending on season in the wild and whatever it may be
in captivity. 70 to 75 works very well and is a good even guideline.

these fish are temperate animals, I never said they were Tropical.

I think your a bit confused as to what a coldwater fish is and it would be
good for you to look into it. Just because the animal exists in an area that
snows does not make them a coldwater fish nor does the fact they are
North American make them Coldwater fish.

_Amia_ are not trout,
These fish do fine in typical 75 to 80 degree conditions. Temp does not
affect them much, nor is it a cause of stress on them.

I do know the range of the fish and myself have alot of experiance with the species both in an Aquaria and as a research subject. I'll tell you right out,
I catch them frequently in shallow water with temps of 85 being common.
They will regularly hang around these conditions when others will not.

I'd love to see your Three references proving this.

I'm sure I can dig up about ten for every one of yours 
saying otherwise, plus my 25 years working with _Amia_
and numorous other native species tends to make me say 
I'm not a fricking moron when it comes to the species or those
around me.

Your likely to get away with this with some, 
but man your not going to pass this 
on me. I really do not care to get in a bitching match with you.

To the point and to help out a fellow aquarist:
This is pointless to why Generalbill's fish is not doing well
and is a distraction to what is at hand, Lets help his fish and
not carry on a personal war. You can PM me

I'm sticking with what I said.

Fact is when these fish get stressed they can go downhill regardless
of Temp. It takes time and patience as well as a bit of care to get them
to turn around.

some fish, perticulary the farmed ones, have problems
and newly aquired ones are tricky at first to adapt.
Once the fish adapts it will be tough as nails.
Untill then they are delicate and need to be treated with care.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

I come across types like you all the time who are in the hobby for a time and feel they should post an honorary degree on the wall. I have been through this many times and I'm sure it won't be the last with regards to hardy, north American fish. You bring up trout. Trout are an excellent example. Trout can be farmed raised in just about any temperature and then transplanted. But they are a cold water fish. They tolerate temperatures in a wide spectrum but are best suited for coldwater. CF&G has monitored trout in San Diego "pools" where the temperature is in the low 70's and yet they spawn. Bowfin are much more hardy still and with the additional air organ, they can live in the swampiest of waters( Lousianna, Texas, Florida) but do not confuse distribution with toleration. Yes, bowfin can be considered a temperate fish but much of what has been observed points to more of a cold water fish( Sandford, Migdalski, Fitchter, Crow, Bannister, Bleher. . . I could go on for sometime). It is true this fish can be considered to be more in the gray in regards to climate but any fish that is natively found in the st. lawrence river in winter months should be considered as more of a cold water fish. Not too many temperate fish could survive this type of cold. Now, again poly, I respect your knowledge as a hobbyist but I disagree with your opinion and I feel I have much on my side inregards to hard research to support me. If you cannot accept the fact that there is evidence and people that do not agree with your opinions and must take defensive posturing rather than consideration then you and I do not have much to talk about. This forum's intent is not to entertain childish bickering but rather thoughtful debate and interaction.

*generalbill* I apologize for the outcome of your post, this was not my intent. Again, I simply say that bowfin are best suited for a water temperature of 55-72 degrees. They also flourish in well oxyginated water. Poly is right that once a fish is in a state of stress, it is easy for it to decline in health. Be sensitive to water conditions and external factors of more stress( lighting, tankmates, temperature, water quality) Any more hijacking of your thread will be done by poly and not myself. Good luck and keep us posted.

edit: typos


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

> This forum's intent is not to entertain childish bickering but rather thoughtful debate and interaction.


It might be wise for you to heed your own words and not blame others.


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## generalbill (Mar 24, 2004)

I just wanted to let everyone know that after 20 days my bowfin is finally starting to show some signs of life. When I walked over to the tank to check on it, it raised it's head up and came out of the plants. It then starting swimming around the tank for about 30 minutes before taking a break right in the middle of the tank in plain sight. I think these are good signs. I want to thank everyone for the advice, especially about being patient. On a few occasions I thought of selling it or trading it. Now I am glad that I decided to keep it. This is a very menacing looking fish when it is on the move.


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

got any pics apparently they are quite common here in ontariop and yet i have never seen one or caught one for that matter


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## generalbill (Mar 24, 2004)

here is a good pic.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

generalbill said:


> I just wanted to let everyone know that after 20 days my bowfin is finally starting to show some signs of life. When I walked over to the tank to check on it, it raised it's head up and came out of the plants. It then starting swimming around the tank for about 30 minutes before taking a break right in the middle of the tank in plain sight. I think these are good signs. I want to thank everyone for the advice, especially about being patient. On a few occasions I thought of selling it or trading it. Now I am glad that I decided to keep it. This is a very menacing looking fish when it is on the move.


 Hey that's great. Bowfin can be very rewarding to keep. I'm glad you decided to give him time. More times than nought, with most any fish, they need time to adjust and feel comfortable. I've had fish that I had to coddle for 6 weeks before they really started to become comfortable. Those ones generally turn out to be the most rewarding to keep.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

Great to hear He is doing good








Good luck with him, they are very rewarding fish to keep
after the initial break in period.

Bowfin truly are a fish with "personality" 
and bring years of enjoyment. By far one of the more amazing fish we
do have the ability to keep in an aquarium.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

im glad hes ok too but is a 150 a bit small for a 14" fish? just curious do they get bigger?


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## BraveHeart007 (May 19, 2004)

thoroughbred said:


> im glad hes ok too but is a 150 a bit small for a 14" fish? just curious do they get bigger?


 150 is fine for a bottom dweller

Just keep the water quality good and your set


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