# herp questions



## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question #1
how many species of herps are there 
not subspecies just the main ones 
turtles,lizards and so on

question #2
what is a scute on a turtle

question #3
why is it better to incubate eggs than have them hatch in the tank
and what do incubaters do

question #4
do turtles need humidty like lizards


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

i can answer 4. not all lizzards need high humidity. alot of turtle like high humidity but not all. thats sort of a broad question you asked


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

True, it's quite broad, I only have time for a broad answer anyhow!

About 11,084 reptiles and amphibians (I'm sure Crockeeper can break it down further). Many lizards and tortoises are desert dwelling and don't need as much humidity (many pet lizards don't fall in this category, hence your misunderstanding).

Incubation=ideal temperature and humidity. For the embryos to "breath" and grow they need these parameters to be correct. In the wild, mama reptile usually selects an appropriate area, you don't give her enough options to count on this in captivity.

Scutes=scales. Turtles sort of have this 'dermal bone' and then epidermal scales on top of that. Their ribs are fused into their shell, it's a complex structure. They're the only animals with their shoulder and hip bones inside of their rib cage!


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Ace answered that well.

if you have any specific questions following his excellent answer, ask away...


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

dam thanks acestro


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Herps are definitely growing in popularity here!

By the way, the amphibian/reptile grouping is only out of convenience. They aren't as closely related as, say, birds and reptiles!


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question #5

florida worm lizard (amphisbaenians)
whats the deal with them.i know its niether a worm or a lizard 
but it looks like a earthworm and called a lizard


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

It's a squamate.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question #6

is it good or bad to hold a alligator snapping turtle(macrclemys temminckii)by there tail
i seen some peole do it
and some places say its bad and others say its ok
for small to meduim sized snappers

question #7

is it true that u have to kill mealworms
before u feed them to lizard
or they will eat the lizard from inside out


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

question #1
how many species of herps are there 
not subspecies just the main ones 
turtles,lizards and so on

not sure

question #2
what is a scute on a turtle

http://www.turtlepuddle.org/health/anatomy.html

question #3
why is it better to incubate eggs than have them hatch in the tank
and what do incubaters do

It keeps them at a certain temp that they have to have..

question #4
do turtles need humidty like lizards 
Definately. Just spray warm water with a spray bottle, you should be able to see it on the sides of your aquarium.


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

People on tv hold it in their palms of their hands, but I belive the best way is to hold them by putting your thumb on the carapca by the tail and your pointer finger on the plastron, very tight.


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

and no you dont have to kill the mealworms first....I never heard of that..


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

5.AMPHISBAENIDAE

Florida Worm Lizard, Rhineura floridana. Secretive. Records include Willingham Campground, 1 mile E of Lake Arbuckle, POLK COUNTY, 26 July 1990, Rick Howton. (P. Walsh, pers. comm.); excavated during construction of drift fence in oak scrub during Branch/Hokit project, HIGHLANDS CO. Primarily in peninsular Florida.

Squamata ("Lizards, Snakes, and Amphisbaenians)

Earliest squamates from the mid-Jurassic (~170-175 mya)

6800 extant species

4060 "lizards" ("Lacertilia") 
2700 snakes (Serpentes) 
150 amphisbaenians (Amphisbaenia)

Worldwide distribution

Terrestrial, aquatic (freshwater & marine), arboreal, fossorial 
Temperate, subtropical, and tropical regions



> question #6
> 
> is it good or bad to hold a alligator snapping turtle(macrclemys temminckii)by there tail
> i seen some peole do it
> ...


6.

Bad to hold (_Macrochelys _ _temminckii_) by their tail after they weigh about 15 pounds.....it can do damage to their vertebrae. It is best to hold them by the sides of the carapace. FAR ENOUGH BACK TO AVOID BEING BITTEN! remember that they have powerfull legs and sharp claws, so it is likely to get scratched up by a large individual.

7.

If you are feeding beetle larvae to a lizard, then the lizard will do enough chomping without any help....NO it is not nessecary to kill or decapitate the larvae first. make sure that you are feeding an appropriate sized food item to the lizard, for example it obviously is unwise to offer _Zoophoba_ larvae to hatchling Leopard geckos, vs. the appropriate _Tenebrio_ larvae.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I used to run drift fences in Highlands County, but the only time I saw an amphisbaenid was a dead one in a parking lot (rather flat too). I was positive it was an earthworm until very close inspection.

Here's an amphisbaenid...


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question #8

what makes gecko's feet so sticky and able to climb and stick to objects they run up?

question #9
what are Zoophoba and Tenebrio larvae?


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Excellent questions (this thread is a forum within itself! ).

For geckos, that is not a simple question and is only recently understood.
Van der Waals forces seem to be responsible. 
These are molecular forces of attraction of the gecko's feet that allow them to stick to any surface.

More specifically:



> Van der Waals forces, named after a Dutch physicist of the late 1800s, are weak electrodynamic forces that operate over very small distances but bond to nearly any material.
> 
> Geckos have millions of setae--microscopic hairs on the bottom of their feet. These tiny setae are only as long as two diameters of a human hair. That's 100 millionth of a meter long. Each seta ends with 1,000 even tinier pads at the tip. These tips, called spatulae, are only 200 billionths of a meter wide--below the wavelength of visible light.
> 
> "Intermolecular forces come into play because the gecko foot hairs split and allow a billion spatulae to increase surface density and come into close contact with the surface. This creates a strong adhesive force,"


Here's the whole article, very cool and well written:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/...20828063412.htm


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Zoophoba and Tenebrio....

Well, Tenebrio are mealworm larvae, here's a pic with adult and larvae (the adults are rarely fed to anything, not quite as soft! )


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I think by Zoophoba you mean the giant mealworms, Zophobas?


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question #10

what species of lizards loses there tail for defence.
how does the tail fall off.
how does there tail grow back.
what makes there tails move around after they fall off.


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## BoomerSub (Jun 23, 2003)

> what species of lizards loses there tail for defence.


Geckos and iguanids.



> how does the tail fall off


There are specialized "cracking points" in the vertebrae that allow for it to detach easily. I don't know exactly how it works, I'll let someone else answer that one.



> how does there tail grow back.


Again, I'm not sure exactly how it works. I do know that it never looks exactly like the original tail and that the cracking points that allow for autotomy are not present in regrown tail, it cannot autotomize at any point below the original break. I do not know why this happens.



> what makes there tails move around after they fall off.


I'm going to guess random nerve stimulation, just like in a twitching corpse. Again, I don't know, ask a neurologist.

-PK
-Trying to be Croc and failing miserably.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

f-that boomer, you make for a damned good 2nd place


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## aaron07_20 (Apr 23, 2004)

CrocKeeper said:


> 6.
> 
> Bad to hold (_Macrochelys _ _temminckii_) by their tail after they weigh about 15 pounds.....it can do damage to their vertebrae. It is best to hold them by the sides of the carapace. FAR ENOUGH BACK TO AVOID BEING BITTEN! remember that they have powerfull legs and sharp claws, so it is likely to get scratched up by a large individual.


 I always hold turtles on the side of the carapace too but on tv they siad never to do that, they said always always hold them by their tail..but I dont like too..


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

First off, you all impress me, so boomer chin up.. Ace thank you for covering the beetle larvae (Zophoba..







)



> question #8
> 
> what makes gecko's feet so sticky and able to climb and stick to objects they run up?


This question was answered well by Acestro but I did feel I should add to it.
Not all geckos have the pads on the bottoms of their toes giving them the incredible traction you describe as "sticky". Many species have toes that terminate in simple nails, most common examples in the pet trade are species such as Leopard geckos, Fat tail geckos, and banded geckos...



> question #10
> 
> what species of lizards loses there tail for defence.
> how does the tail fall off.
> ...


10. (11, 12 & 13)

Many different species of saurian utilize caudal autotomy. There are more groups in addition to Boomer's excellent answer. Agamidae, Scincidae and others. The answer to how does it fall off is one that is under constant study and revision...

a link with some excellent slides....

http://eebweb.arizona.edu/Courses/ECOL487/...pred_avoid.html

Not all species who lose their tails regenerate new ones.... and those that do always occupy research with questions as to the how end, and the why end, with hopes of understanding and some day being able to help people eventually regenerate parts and pieces...

nerve impulses cause the rapid twitching for a very short time after the loss of the tail in many species, this twitching keeps the predators attention long enough for the lizard to escape, most of the time...

Keep up the excellent answers I am most impressed with the general wealth of herp knowledge here...


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question #11
what is the basic info on leopard gecko
and what species are compatably to lived with them
tokay gecko and any other lizards


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Don't have time for detail but you would probably be best off keeping each species of gecko by itself. Tokays are far less demanding, mean, and nocturnal (sometimes far LOUDER too! ).



> nerve impulses cause the rapid twitching for a very short time after the loss of the tail in many species, this twitching keeps the predators attention long enough for the lizard to escape, most of the time...


This is actually interesting. Without the brain to send the signal, how are there continuous nerve impulses?

by the way, can Innes or someone move this to scientific?


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

acestro said:


> I used to run drift fences in Highlands County, but the only time I saw an amphisbaenid was a dead one in a parking lot (rather flat too). I was positive it was an earthworm until very close inspection.
> 
> Here's an amphisbaenid...


 question #i cant remember

herp enclosures vs. aquarium enclosures


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

tail loss 
When a leopard gecko feels threatened, or is grabbed by the tail, it will drop its tail as a defense mechanism (the tail will wiggle on the ground, and hopefully act as a distraction to the threat while the gecko makes its escape). This process is known as autotomy and is a defense mechanism possessed by several gecko species. The connective tissue of the tail is specially adapted to allow the tail to break off at determined fracture planes, these fracture planes are spaced along the length of the tail. The photo on the right shows the tail of a leopard gecko which is presumably "fractured" at one of these fracture planes- in this instance, however, the tail did not break off, instead it healed.

When the tail (or part of the tail) is autotomized, the nerves go through a process called vasoconstriction- this process stops the blood flow to the open part of the tail, thereby preventing the wound from bleeding. The tail will grow back in time, however, it is unlikely to resemble the original.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question ????

how do u get your herps to trust youy to hand feed them


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

another question-

how to get a snake to shed the rest of its outer skin?

my snake shedded a while back (4 weeks) and he still has some shed on him. 
it wont come off in warm water and i am also afraid of hurting him. the 
humidity is at 70% and the temp at 80 degrees on the cool side. 
i tried soaking and was looking at products to him him shed but was worried 
about them harming him.

how do i get him to shed with out it hurting him?

thanks


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

hand feeding a herp is risky with some and a lot of fun with others, and it is all about intelligent acclimation, BUT NEVER "TRUST" A HERP! they are not a thinking animal the same as a bird dog, cat, you, etc... it is always possible to get bitten...

Increasing the humidity and soaking are your best choices Lu...


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

question # whatever

is it true that u shouldent hold your frogs
that the oil from your skin can hurt them

question # whatever

is it true that the walnut shells gravel will expand and kill herps that swallow them
i know that my leopard gecko's sometimes injest the gravel when they are hunting down crickets and was wondering if its good or deadly


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

> question # whatever
> 
> is it true that u shouldent hold your frogs
> that the oil from your skin can hurt them
> ...


Amphibians have tremendously sensitive skin that is transversed by toxins rather easily, one of the reasons they make an excellent indicator or "litmus" species....and one of the reasons amphibian decline world wide should have everybodies attention. Yes it is BAD to handle them, aside from you potentially harming your amphibian, you should be aware that many amphibians produce harmful toxins and alkaloids that could potentially harm you....

Crushed walnut shell is an excellent choice as a substrate for many species, and no it does not expand, but impaction can happen from almost any substrate that is ingested in too large an amount, it is normal for some accidental ingestion to occur.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

next question

how is it possible to make a certian sex while incubating the eggs.
i know the temp has to do with it
but how is it possible?????????


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Temperature determined sex (TDS), or Temperature-dependent sex determination (TSD) is widespread in reptiles but its adaptive significance remains controversial. It is also seen in fish.
There is an impressive array of research out there on this subject......


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

on crocs

how does the palatal valve block all the water from going into the throat
does it actaully give an air tight seal or an ok seal
and does it work like a tongue


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

not like a toungue at all in any way shape or form, and yes a complete seal that prevents air or water through the throat , allowing them to have a large animal grasped underwater without drowning, while the animal being grasped does drown....interestingly enough they also have valves on their nostrils that prevent water from entering, and over their ears, and like birds, have a nicticating membrane (3rd eyelid) that is clear which acts as goggles for underwater vision...perfect amphibious predators....


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

they have muscles that contract their ear canals, or muscular flaps that can be closed over their ear canals?


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

It is an external flap that covers the ear canals....


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

how long can a croc hold its breath? where did crocs oringinally come from?


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

depends on their temp and energy being used, but for considerable lengths of time Lu..upwards of 45 minutes, if laying perfectly stilll.....

Crocodilians are one of those rare and few creatures that have ancient lineage that has remained relatively unchanged for millions of years....perfection man, I mean if you have not had to change in 80 million years you are perfect...


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

how about gharials?


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

http://www.uic.edu/orgs/paleo/24-4/Pb244Mar.html

that should help ya start in the right directions...


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

is it ok to have lizards live off of worms (meal and wax)
other than crickets

how much stress is put on herps when they are help to much
and is it bad not to hold them at all


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

always feed a varatity for herps, it gets kinda boring eating the same food for us and it does for them to.

i think mixing it up between the 3 and then some veggies would be good


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

> how much stress is put on herps when they are help to much
> and is it bad not to hold them at all


Not bad at all if you never touch them...in fact if you set them up in large naturalistic enclosures, and make a point to never handle them, you soemtimes get rewarded with rarely seen natural behaviour and better breeding success...


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

CrocKeeper said:


> > how much stress is put on herps when they are help to much
> > and is it bad not to hold them at all
> 
> 
> Not bad at all if you never touch them...in fact if you set them up in large naturalistic enclosures, and make a point to never handle them, you soemtimes get rewarded with rarely seen natural behaviour and better breeding success...


 thats what i thought
i never hold them anymore
only when i first got them
now i just watch them in there big enclosure (cwd)and let them be themselves


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