# I need 100% identification...



## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Well I don't want to sound like an idiot, but I am very poor @ identifying piranhas&#8230;I have only been collecting and learning to spawn them for less than 2 years&#8230; I recently spawned a fish classified as a gold piranha&#8230; Before I give fry away, and distribute some of them, I want to have them classified 100%... There is no clear hyaline on the end of the tail&#8230; The eyes turn from golden to piercing red&#8230;. I have been searching the web, and found a photo of a brantii that looks identical to my fish when they were juveniles&#8230; Can some one tell me beyond a shadow of a doubt the fish isn't brantii&#8230; Look A the fish @ the bottom of the page to this link, and look @ my juvenile pic&#8230; Is the pic on the page 100% a brantii???? Could my fish be going thought a color morph in the home aquarium&#8230; We all know captive reds look nothing like wild reds in coloration&#8230;.Apparently as my fish mature there teeth are protruding out... Not a common quality of spilos????

PS I do have a surplus if genetic testing can be done... Because of my unorthadox water conditions I am wondering if the fish had morphed in some way.... I am really confuessed..

Verified Brantii???


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## i shroom i (Aug 23, 2003)

not sure ether gold spilo or p.dent


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Not Denticulatus... FIsh is 100% a canibal and meat eater... Eats any from of meet I feed them, worms, shrimp, steak, liver, beef heart and of course feeders... I don't think that is a p. denticulatus quality... But thanks for the direction


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

fish o fury (i think) has rounded gold spilo's like that 
im pretty sure that just a spilo


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Sep 27 2003, 04:24 PM
> *Not Denticulatus... FIsh is 100% a canibal and meat eater*... Eats any from of meet I feed them, worms, shrimp, steak, liver, beef heart and of course feeders... I don't think that is a p. denticulatus quality... But thanks for the direction


Wrong way to look at it at SC, P. denticulata is a meat eater, though with lessor strong jaws. The fish in the photo is not brandti. The adipose fin is enlarged, making it probably a Pristobrycon or Pygopristis. Which one? P. calmoni comes to mind, but before I could eliminate P. denticulata, the teeth should be examined. Not an easy thing to do with live fish and depending on how large that fish is, the penticuspid teeth are not fully visible (sometimes require good magnification), unless the set has been replaced recently. In which case might be visible. I'm also not saying it is calmoni for certainty, since that is a rarely seen fish in the hobby and the eye color is wrong. It is not striolatus either.

PS: its always better to photo your own fish and not get a photo from somebody else pirana. Makes ID even more difficult should the species not be the same. Also, this person's information of that fish is wayyyy off: _ike other Serrasalmus, Brandtii have two rows of teeth compared to the single set Pygocentrus ._ He's just described a pacu not Serrasalmus.


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## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

Thanks for verify it's not Brantii... I guess because I took pictures of my fish from 3 months old untill and after they spawned... I am really confused... The abscense of hyaline line, and large black boarder confused me... Soon others much more knowleble than me will have some of the babies... I guess I just want to be 100% sure of what I have before I truely make accusations of spawning gold spilo's.... Whatever they are.. They aren't reds, and are serrasalmus species...I will be putting them back into spawing condition today... Hope hystory can repeat itself.....

As of now spawing gold spilos seems 90% correct... I will keep everyone posted if there is a change in classification of the Parent fish....


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

They dont look like spilos to me, but neither did the pic by fish o fury in the August POTM. Those looked a lot like that picture, much more compressus and disc-like than the spilos I have owned. I think the only way to get a 100% id is to send Frank a fish.


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

Isnt that the same fish that spawned for you? That pics looks alot like the ones you recently posted in the picture forum. I thought you were sure it was a gold? Now it looks like those pics you posted in the pic forum are either " Pristobrycon or Pygopristis".

However, I hope otherwise as any info you could share on gold spawning would be interesting.

~Dj


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> serrasalmus_collector Posted on Sep 27 2003, 05:50 PM
> Thanks for verify it's not Brantii... I guess because I took pictures of my fish from 3 months old untill and after they spawned... I am really confused... The abscense of hyaline line, and large black boarder confused me... Soon others much more knowleble than me will have some of the babies... I guess I just want to be 100% sure of what I have before I truely make accusations of spawning gold spilo's.... Whatever they are.. They aren't reds, and are serrasalmus species...I will be putting them back into spawing condition today... Hope hystory can repeat itself.....
> 
> As of now spawing gold spilos seems 90% correct... I will keep everyone posted if there is a change in classification of the Parent fish....


I should also mention, because I don't have the fish in front of me, the photos themselves are the only method I can use to diagnose this fish. Barring the penticuspid teeth, I have only the adipose fin to use and that alone is not a strong indicator which is why I stated "probably" a Pristobrycon and to use the teeth. If these fish are the one's you are spawning, then I have already did an ID of them in the PFURY Photo Forum which I stated your fish are closest resemblance to S. maculatus not spilopleura. Because the mid-terminal is present on small juveniles, then graduating to a terminal band, lack of pelvic margins that is why my opinion is resting on S. maculatus.


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## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

In the picture that winkyee took, they look like golds. But, in the picture above they look totally different. It all has to do with camera angles.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Photo of S. maculatus syntype:


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## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Frank, What was the SL on that specimem (syntype)?

Thanks,,,


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I don't really recall.....I think it was something like 5 inches or so (130 mm SL).


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## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

hastatus said:


> I don't really recall.....I think it was something like 5 inches or so (130 mm SL).


 OK, thanks.

If it was only 5" then that is pretty unique (and quite distinguishable) head shape morphology don't you think?

I don't recall Serrasalmus spilopleura specimens of equal length with such a bull doggish appearance, you?

:smile:


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> B. Scott Posted on Sep 29 2003, 05:24 AM
> QUOTE (hastatus @ Sep 29 2003, 12:11 AM)
> I don't really recall.....I think it was something like 5 inches or so (130 mm SL).
> 
> ...


You're beginning to sound like Michel LOL. But I do agree with you.


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## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

hastatus said:


> You're beginning to sound like Michel LOL. But I do agree with you.


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## mmmike247 (Jul 22, 2003)

head too small... but hey. can i join the giveaway???????


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