# Fish look like they are panting and swimming at the top.



## UDdom274 (Nov 21, 2007)

My fish are acting very weird today. All 4 of them are panting and spending alot of time swimming towards the top of the tank. If I didn't know any better, I would say it looks like they are gasping for oxygen. This just doesn't make much sense to me though because this is a heavily planted tank. I did a water change yesterday just like normal (20%) and also dosed my normal ferts for my plants. My water parameters this morning don't look good at all though. My alkalinity is low at 30ppm, PH is really low at 6.4 and nitrites are in the stress/caution zone. I'm a little confused frankly because this has never happened to me. I was just thinking yesterday when doing the water change about why I am even doing it because the water was crystal clear and my water parameters were spot on. The fish still have most of their color so I guess they are O.K. for now... Any suggestions?


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Adding salt would help with breathing. One tsp for the hole tank should be plenty to help with the breathing, and I wouldnt think it would hurt your plants at that concentration.

The nitrite causes brown blood disorder that the salt will fix.


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## Murphy18 (Oct 17, 2008)

You need some surface aggitation, just aim your filter outake or powerhead at the surface so it breaks it. My reds do the same thing of a morning when i wake up, i see them going to the top for a little bretah of air, because of a night i cant sleep with the sound of the rippling water. Nothing too concerning.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Did you test your ammonia levels? Sounds like an ammo spike so do another 50% water change with gravel wash asap and add some prime if you have any.

I would conect the air hose to your powerhead so that you get surface aggitation to help expel the gases from your water.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

He cant aerate the top that hard if he has CO2 going. I dont know if he has it or not, but with CO2 all he can do is a water change, add a bit of salt, and wait for the nitrites and maybe ammo go down. If it gets really really bad then agitate the surface.


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

If you have Co2 for your plants TURN IT DOWN. Sounds like there is to much Co2 in your tank. 50%water change and that should do the trick. Get some oxygen back in that water for them.


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## UDdom274 (Nov 21, 2007)

Feefa said:


> Did you test your ammonia levels? Sounds like an ammo spike so do another 50% water change with gravel wash asap and add some prime if you have any.
> 
> I would conect the air hose to your powerhead so that you get surface aggitation to help expel the gases from your water.


I don't have a test strip for Ammonia levels. I wasn't joking about that fact that I just quit testing the tank and cut back on my water changes because I was never having any problems with it. Like I said, it's heavily planted so I figured the plants were helping out more than I expected. I don't run CO2 so I pointed the power head toward the top of the water to get some surface agitation (Usually I have none because of the plants) and added the salt. What is a gravel wash and prime? Also, how do I raise my PH? 6.5 can't be good.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

6.5 is fine. below 6 you have to start worrying. Gravel wash could be just a quick vac or actually take it out and wash it. Prime is a chemical that detoxifies ammonia.


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## Murphy18 (Oct 17, 2008)

The ph isnt an issue, as it always been at 6.5? As long as it stays stable then its fine. Do as stated above, water change and add salt. How ''heavily'' is your tank planted? How much light are you running?

Try and posts some full ank shots if you can.


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Please dont neglet your fish. Just because you dont have any problems doesnt mean that 3 days from now you wont. Food, fish waste, decaying plant matter will all lead to problems. NEVER "cut back" on your water changes. Thats y everything is going wrong now. A gravel vac is a syphon that goes down in the gravel and gets all the crap i was talking about out of the gravel. Dont worry about your PH if it is stable. Its better to have stable PH then it fluctuating all the time. Prime is the bacteria that eats the decaying fish poop. Its just in a can basically what the person was saying is that it will jump start your tank. Was this tank cycled before buying the fish?? I personally do a water change every 3 days. My water is crystal clear when it comes out but you still need to do water changes. Do not slack on them or you will have MORE problems like this.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

I cant stress this enough. Dont overdo the salt. 1 tsp is more than enough for your tank. It will treat over 200g for nitrite poisoning. Some plants are sensitive to salt so you definitely dont want to use more than you need to.


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## UDdom274 (Nov 21, 2007)

lo4life said:


> Please dont neglet your fish. Just because you dont have any problems doesnt mean that 3 days from now you wont. Food, fish waste, decaying plant matter will all lead to problems. NEVER "cut back" on your water changes. Thats y everything is going wrong now. A gravel vac is a syphon that goes down in the gravel and gets all the crap i was talking about out of the gravel. Dont worry about your PH if it is stable. Its better to have stable PH then it fluctuating all the time. Prime is the bacteria that eats the decaying fish poop. Its just in a can basically what the person was saying is that it will jump start your tank. Was this tank cycled before buying the fish?? I personally do a water change every 3 days. My water is crystal clear when it comes out but you still need to do water changes. Do not slack on them or you will have MORE problems like this.


The fish aren't neglected. I have had them for over 2 years now and never had a problem before. I cut back on my watcher changes over 8 months ago after I first planted the tank. Doing a water change every 3-7 days was causing me bad algae outbreaks so I cut it back to a water change every 10 days or so which has been working really well for me ever since. I understand that I sounded like a tard before asking what a gravel wash was. I read the post too quickly and read it as "do a gravel ash" which confused me because I though gravel ash was some sort of chemical to add. I thought this was something different than your standard vac. My PH is usually around 6.5ish, I was just wondering if this lead to my problem because I know that it is a little on the low side. I think I'm gonna run to the pet store and get some ammonia test strips as well as some prime.

Light is 2 55watt T5 5500k bulbs. Here are the full tank shots as requested.


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## UDdom274 (Nov 21, 2007)

Quick question. Should I do a 50% water change before I add the prime, or after?


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

before

its actually a conditioner so you can just use it instead of your normal chlorine remover. treat the whole tank not just the water your changing


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

the first and most basic question i have is: are you using some air pumps on the tank? to aerate the water.


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## UDdom274 (Nov 21, 2007)

primetime3wise said:


> the first and most basic question i have is: are you using some air pumps on the tank? to aerate the water.


Nope, not for over 8 months since I planted the tank.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

i would get one then, that's probably your problem. it will increase surface agitation a great deal.


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## Murphy18 (Oct 17, 2008)

Get an air pump and attatch it to your powerhead, thats what i do after getting advised by another member, tons of aeration


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Any updates?


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## the_w8 (Jul 28, 2003)

I ran into problems way back in the daY like this and all i did was add a HOB power filter and problems went away, but I also didn't have water param issues like you do. Thats why on all my tanks I have HOB filters for the purpose of adding surface agitation so i don't run into the oxygen problems again


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## UDdom274 (Nov 21, 2007)

Feefa said:


> Any updates?


Sorry, forgot to give you all an update.

I went to the store and picked up a ammonia test kit as well as some ammonia neutralizer. When I got home I tested the water and it came back 0 for ammonia. My conclusion is that there must not have been enough oxygen in the water after all. By time I got home the fish looked like they were back to normal which I am guessing is because I turned my power head up to agitate the surface much more. I find it weird that I have never had a problem with not enough oxygen in the water before. I got rid of my HOB filters about 6 months ago, shortly after I planted the tank, to help keep as much of the CO2 in the water as possible. Since I'm not running a CO2 setup, I noticed getting rid of the HOB filters really helped my plant growth out. It confuses me that this problem suddenly came about only after I added 7 more plants (the amazon grass on the right hand side). My conclusion is that this was cause by several factors all working together. 1 - I overfilled the tank slightly which I didn't think was that big of a deal at the time. Usually I try to leave about an inch or so of space between the top of my water and the glass hood. This time I overfilled it to the point where some of the glass was actually touching the water. I think this caused the hood to pretty much seal itself preventing any gas exchange. 2 - Since I added some more plants I figured I would double my excel dosing to 2 caps. I usually only dose excel once or twice a week with 1 cap full (Enough for an 80 gallon tank, mine is a 75), but I thought that after a water change and addition of plants the extra would be helpful. Just out of curiosity, I re-set my power head back to the "normal" spot I had it in this morning when I woke up. Sure enough, by noon, the fish looked like they were staring to breathe heavily again. I moved it back to pointing up for surface agitation and am going to leave it there for the time being. I also am gonna remove a little bit of water which I think is going to fix my problem. Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.


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