# meanest



## jimbo (Feb 5, 2003)

Whats the meanest piranha, I mean one that is very vicious and will attack food in front of you.


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## Petzl88 (Feb 5, 2003)

All of them. If you want a shoal of ass kickers, get reds, but if you want one ass kicker, I'd vote for a black rhom.


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

Theres plenty of piranhas that will eat in front of you. All piranhas will eat in front of you in due time. Heres a few, if you looking for feeding frenzy get caribe or other pygos. Solitary fish get serrasalmus, rhoms, spilos, brandti, elongatus just to name a few. Meanest is kinda broad.


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## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

thats more of an opinion question if anything ... Not sure exactly how you would classify "mean" in a fish ... If you want a fish that will eat in front of you this doesnt make it mean. Do you want a solitary fish or a shoaling fish?
How about you got get yourself some RBP's ... they will eat in front of you if thats what you want
or go get a rhom, many people say it is the "meanest" fish ... but its not going to shoal for yah like a RBP, and its not likly to eat in font of you.
and If you are looking for a mean fish why dont I suggest you get yourself a Midas or something along the lines of that, if that is all you are in search of. P's have alot more to offer than just "mean"


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## Black Piranha (Feb 1, 2003)

black rhoms are most aggressive and mean alone but cant be in schools. if u get alot of reds like about 10 in a school they are the most aggressive. but solo reds are boring.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

you can't truly judge which is going to be the meanest because every fish has its own personality. you may get a total badass red and a wussy rhom. on average though large rhoms and caribe are the way to go for aggression, also i have heard a shoal of spilo are incredible.

Joe


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## RHOMULOUS (Jan 19, 2003)

I like a shoal of pygos. Reds being the most common. Under the right circumstances they will practically tear up anything that goes into the tank. Whether its a source of food or simply another creature that steps into their turf. I have 8- 5-7" reds which are awesome to watch during a feeding frenzy. If they are well adapted to being in a room with a lot of traffic they will certainly put on a vicious show during feeding time.


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## rosecityrhom (Feb 3, 2003)

I agree with Genin on this. I've read plenty of posts where people are upset with the lack of aggression of their rhoms...often because when they're young they're shy. But my experience with my rhom is he's one mean mofo. I tried putting in a pleco to clean the tank, killed the pleco just because, carcass minus the head was lying at the bottom of my tank. I'm very happy with my rhom, its often just the luck of the draw, it might have some to do with the conditions of the tank as well.


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## JEARBEAR (Jan 30, 2003)

Black Piranha said:


> black rhoms are most aggressive and mean alone but cant be in schools. if u get alot of reds like about 10 in a school they are the most aggressive. but solo reds are boring.


No offence a shoal of reds are not the most aggressive, a shoal of cariba, Maybe a shoal of piraya,And maybe shoal of gold spilo. Nothing against reds they are nice and can be aggressive but no where near the most aggressive, Im just getting tried of seeing that.

I guarentee alot of people will back me.

A Rhom is the most aggressive solo or a Brandti.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Most of what you are hearing is complete crap. The fact of the matter is, which a few have stated, that you flip a coin each time you buy a fish. 
People speak from personal experience and what they hear. Most have not had every species of p and so they interject what they have heard, and people, by nature, tend to talk up their fish. And because we all provide a different enviorment for out fish, I dont see how we can expect the same behavior.
I might not know everything, but I have had enough p's and read enough posts to know that aggression is an individual trait and some fish have more of it than others.
You may have a better chance at getting an aggressive fish based on species, but that is it. It is a flip of the coin.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

my Elongatus attacks anything you put into the tank, algea scrappers, fish nets, fingers :laughlong: , feeders, his reflection, anything

most people report similar aggression, however mine seams to have a little more of a territory dispute than most others, I feel that is why he is a little extra aggressive

and when he attacks he will do it by ramming into the thing full speed with his mouth open and do it until the stimuli is removed

but Elongatus are one of the more expensive fish, so a Medinai or a Spilo, both of which act very similar would be great choices, I would give the upper hand to medinai though, I think they look much better


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

take a look to see what is available, and get the one(s) you like.
just don't try and shoal any kind of Serrasalmus.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Innes said:


> just don't try and shoal any kind of Serrasalmus.


Well ,there are some species that have been kept together succesfully: Hareball from pfish has an incredible group of S. Geryi in one tank, and S. Irritans have been shoaled as well.
But these are exceptions: in general, Innes is right


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

"my Elongatus attacks anything you put into the tank, algea scrappers, fish nets, fingers , feeders, his reflection, anything

most people report similar aggression, however mine seams to have a little more of a territory dispute than most others, I feel that is why he is a little extra aggressive"

Ok, I'll bite, how come you always have the meanest, baddest fishes around while the rest of us have wimps for fish?

From Frank:

"The most dangerous and aggressive pirana is the one flopping around the floor near your feet, the rest is in your imagination."

Thought I would share that cause I've seen Frank post it so many times over stuff like the above I just read.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

fishman2 said:


> "my Elongatus attacks anything you put into the tank, algea scrappers, fish nets, fingers , feeders, his reflection, anything
> 
> most people report similar aggression, however mine seams to have a little more of a territory dispute than most others, I feel that is why he is a little extra aggressive"
> 
> Ok, I'll bite, how come you always have the meanest, baddest fishes around while the rest of us have wimps for fish?


Fishman2, 
Check out my post right before Nates, That is exactly what I meant by "talking up their fish". Unfortunately Nate is not the only one who does this, and there is always a chance that Nate has the baddest elongatus that was ever spawned. 
It gets very old reading" My 3 inch rhom killed 17 feeders and then jumped out of the tank and attacked my girlfriend, is this normal or do I just have a very aggressive rhom?"
Oh well, I think it is the nature of the beast when you are dealing with any aggressive animal. The old "my dad is tougher than your dad" syndrome.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

grosse gurke said:


> My 3 inch rhom killed 17 feeders and then jumped out of the tank and attacked my girlfriend, is this normal or do I just have a very aggressive rhom?


Damn it man, don't joke about that









Still having nightmares about that hell-bent mofo


















Btw: I was a noob when I posted that question, so cut me some slack


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> grosse gurke said:
> 
> 
> > My 3 inch rhom killed 17 feeders and then jumped out of the tank and attacked my girlfriend, is this normal or do I just have a very aggressive rhom?
> ...


:laughlong: :laughlong: :laughlong:


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

If have to say brandti they greet you when you come in the room and will take your finger off if you put it in the aquarium


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

Im not the one who talked this fish up, alot of pfish members that have seen it in life are the ones who said it, I am the one who eventually got knifeman to sell it to me,

all fish have individual charactersitics, some are meaner than others, some are more skittish, ............

you have never seen my fish, so you really dont know what the heck you are talking about


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

fishman2 said:


> "my Elongatus attacks anything you put into the tank, algea scrappers, fish nets, fingers , feeders, his reflection, anything
> 
> most people report similar aggression, however mine seams to have a little more of a territory dispute than most others, I feel that is why he is a little extra aggressive"
> 
> ...


never said other people dont have mean fish, I buy and then sell off my least aggressive fish until I get very active and aggressive ones, that is why all of my fish are mean, I went through a selection process, you seam like you are Franks post slave, all you ever reply with is "Frank said" lets hear what you have to say, Frank can post for himself


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

.....and the plot thickens..........


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> Im not the one who talked this fish up, alot of pfish members that have seen it in life are the ones who said it, I am the one who eventually got knifeman to sell it to me,
> 
> all fish have individual charactersitics, some are meaner than others, some are more skittish, ............
> 
> you have never seen my fish, so you really dont know what the heck you are talking about


First off Nate, I did say you may have the baddest elongatus that was ever spawned, and you might, but how many have you owned?

"most people report similar aggression, however mine seams to have a little more of a territory dispute than most others, I feel that is why he is a little extra aggressive"

tough statement to back up. How exactly do you know your elongatus has more of a territory dispute than others. I have heard your elongatus is a bad fish, but I have also heard similar stories from other elongatus owners.

And you are correct, I have not seen your fish, what does that have to do with anything? 
You are comparing your fish to others you have not seen so what does actual knowledge and comparison have to do with anything you ever say?

I would be interested to know exactly how many pygos and serrs have you gone through to get the "meanest ones"?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> .....and the plot thickens..........


I love it


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

grosse gurke, 
Nate may be speaking of the fact that his elongatus tends to guard an area of the tank much more fearcely than other elongatus he has seen (circling a plant or object often, etc.).

fishman2,
I agree with nate on this one here. I enjoy your informative posts, however all the information in your posts comes from Frank. Frank is a great and knowledgable guy, infact he even helped me with my webpage. You can tell him I said thanks again when you see him. You should try to be less condensending with your posts considering most of your knowledge is not your own.

Joe


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

"you seam like you are Franks post slave, all you ever reply with is "Frank said" lets hear what you have to say, Frank can post for himself"

"You should try to be less condensending with your posts considering most of your knowledge is not your own. 
"

Excuse me? At least I'm quoting sources from a knowledgeable person. Besides, Frank told me to use his previous remarks on any topic he has remarked on that needs some serious review and consideration.

If you want an original remark fine, I will give to you. Nate is full of S--t and you can quote me on that!







:rasp:


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

"Excuse me? At least I'm quoting sources from a knowledgeable person. Besides, Frank told me to use his previous remarks on any topic he has remarked on that needs some serious review and consideration."

I understand that you are quoting from Frank and yes he is a knowledgeable person. I totally agree with you using Frank's remarks on topics. Like I said though you shouldn't be so hostile with it.

"If you want an original remark fine, I will give to you. Nate is full of S--t and you can quote me on that!"

What was the point of that? I have never seen his elongatus and cannot say that it is or isn't the most aggressive out there, but neither have you so you shouldn't be so quick to say things like that. I am not sticking up for Nate, because he can do that for himself. I just want you to think about how you present yourself, maybe go for a little more maturity. This bickering is just getting stupid. If you want PM me and we'll discuss it further.

Joe


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

Nah Joe, I have sent him a PM before on a dispute, and he responded by posting publicly that PMs from me were a waste or something like that,

I know that I dont have to get my info from somebody else, any one can run to somebody else for info, I post what I think and know, I am no copy cat


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

"I know that I dont have to get my info from somebody else, any one can run to somebody else for info,

Yah I kind of figured that one out myself back in the piranha science forum, since you don't quote a source from anybody. Which is NOT what this forum is about. We are supposed to be able to give accurate information from actual experiences, and be accurate with what we really do know, not what we think we know. I'm wondering if you have learned the difference yet?

"I post what I think and know, I am no copy cat "

yah, I got that one too since much of what is being past around by your "know" is pretty much in tatters and yah you are a original in thought, words and actions. Nobody, and I mean nobody will ever copy cat you dude. That you can be sure of.

Oh one last question, if you post only what you think and know then how come everything you post is just an idea that you can't defend with solid data or information?

"Like I said though you shouldn't be so hostile with it. "

I'm not hostile Genin. Your buying into board BS. I love to debate especially with someone that can be honest and upfront and show real knowledge. This stuff I've been reading and quoting on from certain posters is beyond disbelief. Its like they make up stuff as fact then can't stick with their convictions. How is a newbie supposed to know what is real and what istn't? On top of it, you get the glee club of Save The Nate show up and then the entire topic falls apart. Guess who gets blamed? me, why? because I dare ask a straight question and ask for proof or at least references. I don't get either other than opinion. Is this what this p forum is for? just offer opinions, untruths and no real information other than a single person who loves to the center of attention?

Come on man, lets have a debate, but back up your stuff if what you are saying is true, back it up.

Tell you what, since I'm writing more than this thread is worth to me. So I'll give you all the last word. Your not going to change me and you sure as hell not going to get me to give up my convictions and that is, if you say something then you'd better have facts to support it, because a fishes life is at stake if you are wrong.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

everyone is entitled to their opinion and beliefs, all my posts are either from my own observations from my tanks and my opinions. I really dont need to site sources when they are my observations. So when you ask me to cite sources how the hell am I supposed to do that (Sir Nate, Feb. 11, 2003)

flame all you want, you know, I know what I am talking about, on the things we disagree they are topics that are debatable either stance you take so you cant say I am wrong, why should I have to show proof of my opinion? its just that slick and O P I N I ON :rockin:


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## Piranha King (Nov 28, 2002)

btw, i've seen nates elongatus and he's not lying. i have a mean elongatus, however his is way more aggresive. it might be the meanest p i've ever seen.
wes


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I think it is time for me to get in my 2 cents.

I dont really see what the problem is here....all Nate said was



> my Elongatus attacks anything you put into the tank, algea scrappers, fish nets, fingers , feeders, his reflection, anything
> 
> most people report similar aggression, however mine seams to have a little more of a territory dispute than most others, I feel that is why he is a little extra aggressive


I mean really guys.....even I can see that all he is saying is that his fish seems pretty aggressive. He did not say it was the "most agressive fish" ever. It is obvious to me that all he was trying to convey in this statement is that out of NATES EXPERIENCE WITH PIRANHAS, his elongatus is the most aggressive he has ever had. I dont think he was trying to even say Elongatus was a "more agressive species" than others.....he was simply trying to say IN HIS EXPERIENCE, this has been the most aggressive fish he has observed.

I really dont understand why these things have to blow up like this....call me naive, call me unexperienced, etc, but getting in fights over stupid crap like this is pointless, and as PIRANHA KING stated in a post I was forced to delete, it just takes the fun out of the board. I flip the bill for this place every freegin month so YOU guys can have a place to chat, discuss, debate, talk, and share your experiences. Arguments like this, where people pick and harp over every single solitary word someone posts is just wrong. I feel like I am being taken advantage of, that my board is being used by individuals to satisfy their personal vendettas/agends....(and I am paying for it no less)

This is the piranha discussion forum. People are to discuss THEIR EXPERIENCES with the fish and their opinions. Please feel free to disagree with them as you wish but do it in a TACTFUL MANNER and any dirty laundry should be handled over PM.

Fishman2 posts for Frank because Frank cant post for himself because he is moving. For everyone's information, fishman2 is NOT Franks "post whore". I know for a fact that Frank personally asks fishman2 to post for him becasue he doesnt have access to a computer during his move. When Fishman2 says "From Frank:" you are to treat the post with the level of respect you would treat a post from hastatus (Frank).

I am going to have to take action here very soon if these problems do not fix themselves. Like I said, threads like these just kill the board and make it no fun for everyone.

Piranha Science is a category designed to argue over sources, etc, etc, etc.....Piranha Discussion is a place for people to share their experiences....please dont bash people for that.

Lastly, I apologize to jimbo for ruining your thread. It sucks that on your third post here, the members cant show you the hospitality you deserve and not kill your thread. I sure hope you continue to visit here and ask questions cause I promise not all of them will end up like this.

I will not close this thread, even though it should be closed, quartered, drawn, beheaded, burned, drowned, cleaved, and finally fed to piranha.

I would like to hear everyones comments on what I just said. Please post in this thread below. Thanks.

-A very disappointed Xenon

*To all involved, please use this thread to finally work out the differences you guys have and determine a method to co-exist on this board....*otherwise, I will have to take action to prevent this type of crap from happening again.


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

Ok, I will respond, but first some things you pointed out:

"It is obvious to me that all he was trying to convey in this statement is that out of NATES EXPERIENCE WITH PIRANHAS"

Well that now makes sense. I can live with that.

"Arguments like this, where people pick and harp over every single solitary word someone posts is just wrong. 
"

I'll give you that, but there is alot of wrong stuff being said like it is fact, which goes back to what I wrote, certain people should use 'in my opinion' just like me now saying this is in my opinion.









"Piranha Science is a category designed to argue over sources, etc, etc, etc.....Piranha Discussion is a place for people to share their experiences....please dont bash people for that. "

Ok, I'll agree with that! Non-science in one place (opinions), Experts in the other. Works for me.

 I'll keep the knowledge I have out of the piranha discussion for opinions and meaningless, unscientific posts. ok?

"Lastly, I apologize to jimbo for ruining your thread."

My apologies too, I got carried away with the BS that floats around here. But don't be discouraged jimbo, some of us do care you get the right information about your p's. Stay with us and join the best board on the internet.

:rockin:


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I guess I will toss in my 2 cents here.

I love to debate and don't take the things people say personally, unless they are directed that way. If a discussion breaks out and there are opposing sides, and I have knowledge in the subject, I usually speak up. 
Things can be taken the wrong way on a board such as this because of the lack of personal contact. I have debates like this all the time with my friends, over a few beers, and it is a blast. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose, and most of the time you agree to disagree. Unfortunately for me, most of my friends are lawyers and they can make a great argument







.
I am the first to admit when I am wrong, but you must prove it to me by more than just your opinion.

I do not come on this board to fight or argue but to increase my knowledge about a species that I find very interesting and provide what little knowledge I have to help someone who has questions.

For Nate:
I don't have any problems with you personally. I question some of your statements because I have a difference of opinion and want to know how and why you believe the way you do. I am used to having debates with people who arrive at opinions via facts, experiences, education, ect... and that is why I was trying to get out of you, why you believe the way you do. I don't win every debate I enter, but there are reasons I believe the way I do, as I am sure you have as well, and it is those reasons I am interested in. If they are just "what I have noticed in my cariba" that is fine, but that is what I want to know.

Ok, the bottom line is I will try to not be as aggressive as my fish in discussions. :







:


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

"Arguments like this, where people pick and harp over every single solitary word someone posts is just wrong." - Xenon

"I'll give you that, but there is alot of wrong stuff being said like it is fact, which goes back to what I wrote, certain people should use 'in my opinion' just like me now saying this is in my opinion." - fishman2

Xenon - U da man! :rockin: 
I totally agree with all of what you said in your post except
"dirty laundry should be handled over PM." - because it is always funny when their is a full blown multi-way argument!

Fishman2 - If anyone takes anything said by any member/mod/admin on this board, or any other as FACT then they are too stupid to keep fish, By all means believe and trust, but don't take anything as gospel, because nobody is right all the time - as you keep trying to proove.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I feel that the only person here that reads over things with a fine tooth comb is Frank and Fishman, I never intended to imply as if I were speaking from facts, I dont think I should have to say "In my opinion" most of what is posted and replied is opinion regardless of what anybody thinks, there are very few undisputable facts when it comes to piranhas, so everyone needs to assume replies are opinions, not facts unless said so otherwise


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

I think you can assume if it comes out of Frank (or Fishmans) mouth it is a fact. Posts in the piranha science forum are meant to be read over with a "fine tooth comb"


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I am talking about the rest of the forums though


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Nate, what you dont realize here is the reason anyone rakes over your posts is that you have a history (that I am not personally aware of) of posting false information......or misinformation. I dont have any knowledge of this over at other boards so I cant make a judgement here. The only thing I can say is that everyone, STAFF AND MEMBERS, need to just provide a differeing opinion and respect what the other person is saying......argue if you please but there is a difference between arguing and purposfully arguing over every single word or phrase in a post.

Fishman2 and Frank post facts in all forums.....i can guarantee that.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I am curious of when I have posted false information, if anybody has examples please let me know, I find that ridiculous and obviously somebody started, however I may be wrong and that person may be right that I post false info, so please show me where


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I wont hold any grudges against you for it either, I am an adult and I will act like one from now on, sorry for the "trouble" I have casued, but I just need to know how I caused it so I can fix it!


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

We should try to focus on facts when someone really needs advice. When someone posts an opinion question such as this one was we shouldn't jump down the throat of the person who replies with an opinion. 
I enjoy to debate as much as the next person, but I don't believe that people need to play devil's advocate constantly just to give someone a hard time. I am not implying that any one person does it frequently, but I do see it happen. 
Xenon I feel for you. This bickering does suck and your site is great. I would really like to see this site stay untarnished. Grosse Gurke is right about people posting too often about matters they don't really know information about. I am one of those people but I have really tried to improve that by only posting about matters I know about. Unless it's an opinion question of course. 
Nate I know you have been taking a lot of heat lately. Hell you have been flamed more than a whopper at Burger King. I personally don't find any harm in Nate's posts. He usually states that it is his opinion, or that in his experience....etc. Everyone here has made fact opinion and fact inference confusion statements, no need to take it out on one person. Later on guys.

Joe


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Drop it, and start fresh!


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Genin said:


> I enjoy to debate as much as the next person, but I don't believe that people need to play devil's advocate constantly just to give someone a hard time.


Well said, this devils advocate crap has got to stop because it is motivated by a grudge......

Innes, I will not drop this until both Nate AND fishman2 post that they can get along on this board and stop this foolish bickering from tearing the whole place down.

Fishman2 needs to agree to not debate in the "devils advocate" way and leave these foolish rivalries and grudges for other boards to deal with...

.....and Sir Nate needs to agree that if someone challenges him, he needs to know when to say his piece, agree to disagree, and shut up. Period.

Sound good fellas, I hope so cause this is the last warning. Both your responses are requested.


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

"Fishman2 needs to agree to not debate in the "devils advocate" way and leave these foolish rivalries and grudges for other boards to deal with"

Now that I know who the devil is, I will leave him alone --- and SN too.

And I don't hold grudges, cause my enemies are never around to see it.








:







:

Now lets go forward in a more positive way. Unless there is more?


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

fishman2 said:


> Now lets go forward in a more positive way. Unless there is more?


I am going to hold you to your statement above. If you can do it, there is no more.

What about you Sir Nate?


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I dont want any problems either, the only reason I didnt stay silent is that I dont care to have slanderous statements made about me, I want peace though, I willing to keep a truce as long as other parties can


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## Neoplasia_old (Jan 29, 2003)

Question: why is this pinned? It's just the same BS as before, though I have to say a few things have been made much clearer. Hopefully people know what I'm talking about, if not maybe I'll explain in my chat or PM later. Xenon, do yourself a favor and unpin this useless drivel.


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## jimbo (Feb 5, 2003)

hmn, everywhere I go to seems to turn up some controversy







here, the dodge daytona forum, work. lol


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Peace it is then....I will hold both of you to this.


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