# near albino piraya?



## mlee965 (Aug 23, 2003)

would this be considered as an albino or near albino piraya?


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## mlee965 (Aug 23, 2003)

another


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## mlee965 (Aug 23, 2003)

one more


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## LaZy (Jun 17, 2003)

looks like ammonia burn i tink


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

First off, the pic is taken outside (because of noticing the grassy field in the background). Ps usually try to blend in with their environment and surroundings. I remember one time when I sold my Tern it was dark grey-ish. Brought it outside to hand it to a buyer and looked light grey/whitish. If you can provide another pic of it in a home aqwua tank, and it still stays the same color, I would PM Frank about it to see if any of this kind was ever known.


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## jdk79 (Feb 22, 2003)

I think its so light in color because of the fact you have it right against a window. So alot of light gets in and it pretty much just stressed the fish out with all the bright light causing it to look that way. Put a shade on the window and get some dark gravel and it will darken up and bring out the true color of the fish.


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## MPower (Jan 29, 2003)

That looks like a red to me.


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## Bcollins111900 (Feb 3, 2003)

def. a piraya. Not an albino. Seen this photo posted before and Frank discussed on it. Not an Albino, normal piraya with a battelt scar of a half moon in front of his dorsal fin, yet still a nice specimen.


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## armac (Nov 28, 2002)

very stressed


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## AzNP (May 21, 2003)

not albino 
my cariba gets that color as well 
and nicely pointed out that it is outside


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

it is unique, but I belive that was a ternetzi. I could be wrong.


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

That is a ternetzi that has been in complete darkness for a looooooong time. I believe it is elongatus's fish. These pics are on franks site.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

wow i would have never guessed that it was a tern!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

You folks crack me up sometimes/

That photo is a fish that was raised from juvenile in -0- light conditions. It is one of several offspring from the breeding P. nattereri (aka ternetzi) belonging to Bud Guyer who sold it to a fellow who raised it those conditions. This was later called an albino by everyone else when the rumor spread. Long since documented it is NOT albino and you can read some of the story behind it in my P. nattereri web page.


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## fugupuff (Feb 16, 2003)

thats an old phot from j. bolin, he had that fish, from a breeder, one out of many batches, a lighty colored specimen., albino fish have no black pigments at all. this fish could be considered as leucistic or maybe hypomelanistic maybe. just like other animals, a odd ball variation. then later the fish was sold to matt (elongatus), which i'm sure is still alive and well under his care. its not a piraya, not a ternetzi, its a freaking pygocentrus nattereri, or red bellie, nothing else.

the regular fish we call "ternetzi" is from paraguay, uruguay, northern argentina region. this fish is not one of those, and those have not been bred yet. but this one was probably like frank said, bred out fish from that bud guyer guy, no pun intended.

but very nice, and unusual, i wanted that fish for myself for a long time!


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

fugupuff said:


> thats an old phot from j. bolin, he had that fish, from a breeder, one out of many batches, a lighty colored specimen., albino fish have no black pigments at all. this fish could be considered as leucistic or maybe hypomelanistic maybe. just like other animals, a odd ball variation. then later the fish was sold to matt (elongatus), which i'm sure is still alive and well under his care. its not a piraya, not a ternetzi, its a freaking pygocentrus nattereri, or red bellie, nothing else.
> 
> the regular fish we call "ternetzi" is from paraguay, uruguay, northern argentina region. this fish is not one of those, and those have not been bred yet. but this one was probably like frank said, bred out fish from that bud guyer guy, no pun intended.
> 
> but very nice, and unusual, i wanted that fish for myself for a long time!


 welcome to the site fugupuff and thanks for giving us that history. It is an interesting specimen!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

A bit more history to clear up a remark above. Those fish were brought in by Oliver Lucanus in late 80's (yes ternetzi), sold to a hobbyist as P. nattereri (back in 80's there was no "ternetzi" as a common name) who was fortunate to have them breed. The breeding pairs (about 5 of them) were later sold to Bud Guyer (a semi-pro breeder) who continued the practice. Dr W.L. Fink was sent several of these specimens by Guyer in middle 90's. Fink was amazed the fish maintained it uniform yellow coloration. The name "ternetzi" began to surface again at about the time Predatory Fish took off as a site by some that had never seen this fish except via photos and a long since discarded sci name. But time will tell if the name "ternetzi" will ever be a suitable sci name for those populations.

I've done extensive research on the origins of those fish. From Guyer retelling the history to conversations with Oliver.

Its quite possible if someone were dedicated enough to devote the care and time to breed these fish from wild stock it can happen and better documentation can take place. For now, the fish will continue to be an enigma until better evidence is produced to suppress the skeptics.

Yes that fish was from Bolin who wanted me to look at the fish to verify it was albino (it wasn't). But it is an interesting fish nonetheless. PS: keep in mind that tank raised fish never look the same as wild caught. Brian covered this in a recent TFH article on piranas.

And welcome fugupuff.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Its interesting because of all the coloration on the gill plate area. I mean that is atypical of any species, I can see how the poster mistook it for piraya. Does anyone have any updated pics?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Originally Bud thought his yellow natts were "gibbus" based on a photo in Quinn Piranhas Fact and Fiction page 104. I remember Bud commenting how his adult fish looked just like those (the body), but more like juvenile coloration (listed as Azuma S. gibbus) on page 108. When I remarked the fish had a subterminal band in the photo, alarms bells went off and he discovered his fish didn't have that feature. The spilopleura complex forms all have the characteristic pugnacious look making them look more like a Pygocentrus. So I can see why he was confused on his ID's.

Subsequently a hobbyist from Puerto Rico sent me a couple juvenile dead ones for ID. He purchased a few live from Bud and took them back to his country. Of course, I sent one to Fink to in order to verify my diagnosis and they were P. nattereri, though having a more yellow belly than I had ever seen. Later, as I said above, Fink was sent live ones from Bud.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> the regular fish we call "ternetzi" is from paraguay, uruguay, northern argentina region.


Actually the species known solely and scientifically speaking as S. (Pygocentrus) ternetzi was described from Paraguay. Not the other regions you speak of. Ternetzi is presently a common name for all P. nattereri found in the rest of the regions you speak of.


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