# Need help!



## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

I have a quick question for you guys. I have been keeping snakes for about 5 years now and know that cedar is very harmful to snakes. I just started breeding rats for my snake to try and save some dough, but didnt think cedar beeding would make a difference in the rat cages. My mistake.

I havent feed any of the rats that have been living in the cedar tanks yet. They have been in there for 3 weeks. I cleaned out all the cages and let all the rats swim in the tub for a minute or two. My question is... do you think it will be ok to feed them to my snake? They are no longer in cedar beeding.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

I have 28 rats as of right now. I kill them and freeze them once the are big enough to feed since my boa has no problem eating prekilled food. I could give them a really good rinse after I thaw them out prior to feeding also.

I am so pissed that I didnt think about this prior to introducing this cedar!


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2004)

I think it's okay. to feed rats that have lived on cedar bedding.

I've been told that the problem with cedar is the aromatic compounds that emanate from the wood. These compounds affect the respriatory system of reptiles.

Some more research is in order, though.


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

I think its probably ok, but as bullsnake said, more research is needed.

I'll have a look around and see what i can find


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

It has to do with the oils in the cedar. I am afraid that these oils may have soaked into the fur of the rats. Thus giving them a swim in the tub and cleaning there cages with soap and water. I just dont want to harm my snake.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

while there are definately issues with the oils given off by pine and cedar and the liver damage that can be done among other things through dermal absorbtion and ingestion resulting in absorption through the gastrointestinal sytem..there are the aromatic issues and neuro-toxic problems associated there. So it is a two way problem, unfortunately not enough work is being done, but there are some reports out there on them through aroma-therapists, vetrinary reports etc, especially when it comes to dogs and cats....

Knight, M.J. & Villar, David. Toxicity of melaleuca oil and related essential oils 
applied topically on dogs and cats. Vet Human Toxicol 36(2): April 1994, p139-142.
Florida Veterinary Scene Newsletter, 4(5), May/June 1995.
Promotional leaflet from Pet & Garden Manufacturing plc (Scotland), 1995

there are more papers that I will have to dig up.....so more coming soon...


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Thanks Croc. So do you think it will be ok to feed these rats to my snake in say 2 weeks or so?


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Got this info from someone on another forum. What do you think about it Croc?



> Cedar is bad. we all know that but I really truely believe that if you change the litter to aspen or something and have bathed them that they will be fine after a few days. I would wait a couple of weeks to be sure but I don't believe you have a total loss on your hands. Rats are actually a lot cleaner animals than we give them credit for and they will bathe themselve (lick lick) constantly during this time period and any of the oil on them should be gone and any they injest through licking should have long passed after a fairly short period of time.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

bump


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## BoomerSub (Jun 23, 2003)

That sounds good, give them a few weeks and they'll be fine.

-PK


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

first of all GET THE RATS OFF THE f*cking CEDAR! if its bad for your snakes, is HORRIBLE for the poor rats. it literally will eat their lungs apart, and make them suceptible to disease. pine does it more slowly, but bad nonetheless. I would suggest keeping them on cheap bunny pellets that you can buy in bulk at a feed store.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Tinkerbelle said:


> first of all GET THE RATS OFF THE f*cking CEDAR! if its bad for your snakes, is HORRIBLE for the poor rats. it literally will eat their lungs apart, and make them suceptible to disease. pine does it more slowly, but bad nonetheless. I would suggest keeping them on cheap bunny pellets that you can buy in bulk at a feed store.





> They are no longer in cedar beeding.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

Atlanta Braves Baby! said:


> Got this info from someone on another forum. What do you think about it Croc?
> 
> 
> 
> > Cedar is bad. we all know that but I really truely believe that if you change the litter to aspen or something and have bathed them that they will be fine after a few days. I would wait a couple of weeks to be sure but I don't believe you have a total loss on your hands. Rats are actually a lot cleaner animals than we give them credit for and they will bathe themselve (lick lick) constantly during this time period and any of the oil on them should be gone and any they injest through licking should have long passed after a fairly short period of time.










thats some good info

thanks


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## syd (Nov 6, 2004)

aspen is safer


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

aspen is also more expensive to keep feeder rats on.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

I bought a HUGE bag of aspen for $10. Thats what they are on now.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

Tinkerbelle said:


> aspen is also more expensive to keep feeder rats on.


 actually at costco's i got a huge bad for $6 that i use for my hamsters


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## [email protected] (Nov 10, 2004)

Better to be safe than sorry, sell the rats to a local pet shop and start again on your new aspen bedding. I personally would not risk it if unkown. I cannot imagine simply washing or bathing rats to be a full fledged process to cleanse them of all the oils from being raised on this cedar bedding. I've never used cedar, never had these worries, but If i were in the same situation I would certainly rather get rid of them than risk it. JMO


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