# Do red bellys play, there bouncing on the rocks



## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

my fish are bouncing off the blue rocks , whats that all about, they swim side ways over them and bounce up. Is this how they play or are they doing this for some other ression


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## SidewalkStalker (Oct 26, 2005)

sounds like they need to lay off the PCP... kidding...

anyway, they could be itchy due to water conditions, but i'm not too sure... a more experienced P keeper will respond soon with some better advice...

oh, and welcome to the site...


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> my fish are bouncing off the blue rocks , whats that all about, they swim side ways over them and bounce up. Is this how they play or are they doing this for some other ression


When they turn sideways do they kind of "flick" themselve against the rocks? If so it's called "flashing."

This can be caused by several things. First of all, how often do they do this? Do you find that they do it shortly after feeding?

Also, what are your water parameters? If you don't know this, I suggest you test your water asap.

And yes, welcome to the site!


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

they do it every now and then , i guess they do it after they eat more . water parameters,







whats that, iam new to fish tanks and testing water, i check the PH level and it seems good but what esle should i check

yes its like a flick off the rocks , there round blue rocks , its the only things they flick them selfs off


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

There is a good write up in the F.A.Q. on flashing. There are several factors that may be a cause and you need to go through them to narrow it down. They are listed in the F.A.Q.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

great i'll check it out right now

thanks


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## t_rent8 (Dec 15, 2005)

my big p's do this every once in a while there just iching themselves unless there doing it like all the time they might have ich


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

All the fish seem to do this, what should i test for, i have a ph level test kit but thats it, also not sure if the helps but i have two rubber things in thetank that look to be turning a brown color now.

please let me know asap if i need to test for some thing else so i can go buy it before my fish die or something


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## t_rent8 (Dec 15, 2005)

is there any small white spots on your p's fins or sides or any slime or anything


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

i dont see any white spots, slime, might be what that brown stuff on the plates is , first time i seen it today,

I was told not to change my filter or clean the water for the first 4-5 weeks is tha true, maybe the water needsto be cleaned


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

well it could be ich or something, but if your fish dont do it that often i wouldnt worry.My fish does it every once in a while..


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> All the fish seem to do this, what should i test for, i have a ph level test kit but thats it, also not sure if the helps *but i have two rubber things in thetank that look to be turning a brown color now. *
> 
> please let me know asap if i need to test for some thing else so i can go buy it before my fish die or something


Just saw this. My guess is that you didn't cycle the tank before you put the fish in. Am I correct?


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## -d0rk- (Nov 10, 2005)

Haha I just put a post like this up myself. I have an RBP that does this too, kinda looks like he/she is doing somersaults and slapping the gravel with their tail. Mine that does it though, I think its some type of territorial display, cuz she runs the others off when they come near her "spot" she has beat out in the gravel. Is it just one fish that does it? or all of them?


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

They are rubbing or scratching themselves.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

Most of the fish do it , i ran the tank for about a week or more before i put the fish in , was this to fast.

Do they sell these in one kit, or do you buy a test kit for every one you need to test, i can go today to find one.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> Most of the fish do it , i ran the tank for about a week or more before i put the fish in , was this to fast.
> 
> Do they sell these in one kit, or do you buy a test kit for every one you need to test, i can go today to find one.


Buy the Freshwater Master Test Kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. If you buy it from a pet store, it will probably run you around $20-30. Trust me, it is well worth it.

My guess is that your tank hasn't finished cycling yet, and it probably on the nitrite stage of the cycle. Nitrite is very poisonous to fish. If you find out that I'm correct when you test your water, I would add some salt to help with the nitrite poisoning.

But first thing is first, make sure you get a kit today. Also, when you say you ran the tank for a week, was there anything in it or did you just add water and turn the filter on?


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

yes i added water and turned the tank on and just let it run, the pet store said to wait only three days then put the fish in , and to do no water or filter changes for a month, is that right, man iam glad i found this site, damn pet store could have killed my fish or something if i didnt find this


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> yes i added water and turned the tank on and just let it run, the pet store said to wait only three days then put the fish in , and to do no water or filter changes for a month, is that right, man iam glad i found this site, damn pet store could have killed my fish or something if i didnt find this


Ok, I hate to say it, but the person at the pet store who told you this needs to learn a few things before giving out advice like that. They very well could have killed your fish! Perhaps after you learn the right way to do things, you can go back and teach them a thing or two...

I'm going to try to make this as simple and brief as possible. If you have any questions afterwards, feel free to ask, but I just have to be quick about this because I have some reports to run









Before you put fish in a tank that you plan on keeping, you need to "cycle" the tank. There are several methods to doing this, but they all do the same thing. First, you need to know a little bit about the nitrogen cycle, which works a little bit like this.

Your fish eat, and naturally therefor they poop. In a new tank, the poop along with uneaten pieces of food and other things settle to the bottom and eventually rot. During the rotting process, ammonia is created. Ammonia is very poisonous to fish, especially in large quantities. The ammonia levels will peak, and then attract naturally occuring bacteria that is all around us. The bacteria begins to feed on the ammonia, and then turns it into even more poisonous nitrIte. The nitrIte will eventually peak, and then a nitrIte thriving bacteria will begin to turn it into a much less poisonous nitrAte.

Once you are at the end of the cycle, and poop or left over food etc. will be turned into nitrAtes from the beneficial bacteria that has established in your tank. NitrAtes like I said early are not as harmful as nitrItes or ammonia, however in large quantities they can be. To control this and keep the nitrAte level down, we must do weekly water changes. The amount of water you need to change depends on how heavily stocked your tank is, but I usually do a 30% change a week or so.

So, in order to get this whole process started, you obviously need a source of ammonia. Simply adding water and running the filters will not do this. What you did was, you started the process using your precious Piranhas, who are now going to be very stressed from the poisonous products produced by the nitrogen cycle. Very bad info given by your LFS! Shame on them!

Now, I suggest you read this article, which goes a little more in depth, and explains exactly how you should cycle your tank. click me!

If you have any other questions after that, let me know.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

Man that makes me mad that the people at the pet stores dont have a clue, now iam sure the fish will die , and what iam putting the poor things though sucks.

well iam off to the store to get this test kit


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> Man that makes me mad that the people at the pet stores dont have a clue, now iam sure the fish will die , and what iam putting the poor things though sucks.
> 
> well iam off to the store to get this test kit


They won't necessarily die. Buy the test kit, follow the instructions, and post the results here and we will try to help you.









By the way, are they still eating?


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

iam going to get it right now, hope they have it.

yea most eat like pigs, theres two small ones that havent grown much and eat very little it seems , but most eat

thanks for all the help man


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## ShatteredSkyy (Feb 22, 2006)

try not to feed them to much right now... I know it can be tempting because they are very cool to watch eat but hold off. Only feed every couple days(Dont worry they will be ok.).The reason is because like Nextect said "During the rotting process, ammonia is created" more food creates more poop that creates more ammonia. so try to hold off till it is done with the cycle.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

ok i did the test , there hard to read but i can give a around about number, please let me know what i can do if i can do anything about it

ph----- 7.0

nitrate---0

nitrite----2.0 - 5.0 , looks more lik ethe 5.0









ammonia--.50 - 1.00

they look like there doing it more and more even on the glass now. I moved the fake plants and made sure i got any food out of the tank.

if theres any thing i can do i'll get started asap

thanks


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## ShatteredSkyy (Feb 22, 2006)

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do. your going to have to wait for the cycle to complete. right now you are in the nitrite stage. your almost done. Hopefully your fish will make it though it. if i were you i would keep the plants in. give them places to hide. less stress then the poison they are currently living in. and if i were you i would go down to the lfs and give them an ear full. as well as demand replacements if your fish end up dying.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

NexTech84 said:


> My guess is that your tank hasn't finished cycling yet, and it probably on the nitrite stage of the cycle. Nitrite is very poisonous to fish. If you find out that I'm correct when you test your water, I would add some salt to help with the nitrite poisoning.


So my prediction was correct....

Do you know anyone that has a tank that has been set up for some time? The absolute best thing to do would be to take some bio-media that is already established, and add it to your filter.

Also, I suggest you dissolve some salt in a cup of tank water, and add it to your tank to help with the nitrite poisoning. How big is your tank? Then we can decide how much salt to add.

Keep monitoring the levels on a daily basis. I think your ammonia should be on it's way down, and after some time you will begin to see nitrAtes. That will happen towards the end of the cycle.


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## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

I would say they probly wont die. THey would do more then just flash if they were about to die. Things can change fast though. Get a library card, rent some books. THere is tons of info there. Or you can read the things here. Eather way get as much knowledge as you possibly can. It will help you in the long run.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

no other tanks, my brother is going to have the same problem with his gar he just bought.

the tank is a 75gal tank, the filter came with some bio rock looking things that where put in the filter and still there. I seen some fresh water sait at the fish store is that what i need. Is that the only thing to try is the salt

i have 12 red bellys in the tank that range from 3/4" to 1.5" , i guess i'll feed them little and make sure they eat every thing, and should i be doing any water change at all or wait till its done, ive done none since ive had the tank


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## ShatteredSkyy (Feb 22, 2006)

no just wait till things stabillize. as far as adding bio media (not to step on your toes NexTech) I have had an experience in the past where i did that and its compleatly re started the cycle and the fish i hadn't lost yet i did, so i would stay away from that unless your starting a new tank then its a great idea. As far as the salt, GREAT idea as the same with the daily testing.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> no other tanks, my brother is going to have the same problem with his gar he just bought.
> 
> the tank is a 75gal tank, the filter came with some bio rock looking things that where put in the filter and still there. I seen some fresh water sait at the fish store is that what i need. Is that the only thing to try is the salt
> 
> i have 12 red bellys in the tank that range from 3/4" to 1.5" , i guess i'll feed them little and make sure they eat every thing, and should i be doing any water change at all or wait till its done, ive done none since ive had the tank


I'm an idiot and I accidentally closed the window after I typed this one time, so here it goes again...

Don't do any water changes until the cycle has completed. Take a cup of tank water and dissolve 1 teaspoon of salt in it. Wait until it is completely dissolved, and then pour it into the tank. Plain table salt will work fine, and will not harm your fish. If you prefer, you can go buy some freshwater aquarium salt and use that instead, however I assume you probably have some Mortons or something equivalent kicking around the house. Just make sure it has nothing else in it. Continue to test your water at least every other day to monitor the progress of the cycling process. Make note of any changes in the water parameters.

Man, I still can't believe that your LFS told you to just dump the fish in after running the tank for 3 days. Is this the same store you went to when you purchased the test kit? If so, did you say anything? I would seriously speak with the owner and find out if you can at least get a partial reimbursement should something happen. RBP's that small are very delicate, and putting them in extreme conditions like that has a much higher risk than if they were older.

Anyways, good luck to you, and I hope everything works out!


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

no i bought it from the petsmart this time, the place that told me the tank was ok sold me a maxi-jet powerhead 400 and said it would work also, i didnt even feel the water move its so small 110gph. I bought my fish from aqua scape .

would something like stress coat help the fish from getting burnt from this


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> no i bought it from the petsmart this time, the place that told me the tank was ok sold me a maxi-jet powerhead 400 and said it would work also, i didnt even feel the water move its so small 110gph. I bought my fish from aqua scape .
> 
> would something like stress coat help the fish from getting burnt from this


No, I don't think the stress coat will do anything in this case. The salt will definitely help with the nitrites though.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

great i'll give it a try and keep the test posted up every day, thanks for all the help, you might have saved my little redbellys


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> great i'll give it a try and keep the test posted up every day, thanks for all the help, you might have saved my little redbellys


Np! I hope they'll be ok


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## -d0rk- (Nov 10, 2005)

Hmmm I'm learning a thing or two in this thread myself.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

-d0rk- said:


> Hmmm I'm learning a thing or two in this thread myself.:nod:


Glad to hear it. This is an excellent website and a wonderful source of information, and I'm proud to be a part of the community.


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## -d0rk- (Nov 10, 2005)

Me too!


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

iam going to do another test friday and post up , the tank is getting pretty dirty and needs to be cleaned, hope i can soon


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

crazygn said:


> iam going to do another test friday and post up , the tank is getting pretty dirty and needs to be cleaned, hope i can soon


What do you mean by dirty? It's probably because you are in the nitrites phase of the cycle. If you are talking about brown algae then you can scrub it if you want, but I would hold off on water changes until the cycle completes. Did you add the salt to help with the nitrite poisoning?


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## verypointyteeth (Feb 15, 2005)

i think they are just flashing


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

coolermaster said:


> i think they are just flashing


Yes, they are "just flashing", but not without reason. The cause for this behavior is because the tank was never cycled.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

new eradings as of two days ago

ammonia -- .25

nitrite -- 2.0

nitrate -- - 5.0

how does this look , my tank is pretty dirty and i need to vac the rock , hope to be able to do it soon.

thanks


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

can i clean the tank now or would it start it over again


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

my small blacks do that too... kinda a type of power-up before they attack goldfishes tails, and sometimes off the decorations in my tank too.... KaMeHaMeHaaaaa...


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

crazygn said:


> can i clean the tank now or would it start it over again


your tank will not start over unless you remove the bio-media in your filter. Since you are registering nitrAtes now your tank is on its way. You can dilute the ammonia/nitrite concentration by cleaning your tank without doing harm to the biological filter. Just make sure you add conditioner to the tank before refilling and with water of the same temperature.. I would do a 25% water change w/ a gravel vac. Most importantly add a teaspoon of salt predissolved in a glass of water and pour it in the tank. Regular morton salt w/ iodide is fine in case your asking. The salt will allow for proper gill function by displacing the nitrite ions from the gill membrane.


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## crazygn (Mar 4, 2006)

cool i'll go buy a vac after work and clean it out


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