# Red Tail Boa Question



## burton12387

Hey guys,

So i have had my boa now for about 8 years and have never really seen this kind of behavior from her. I have posted the picture below because i am not really sure how to explain it. She sits in this position, not necessarily up against the wall of the cage, sometimes in the middle of the cage. She will sit this way for hours almost in trance and then just start crawling around again or put her head down and go sleep or something. I have listened for raspy breathing, looked for discharge from the mouth, she is actively eating and her stool is normal. Do you think this is something to worry about? or she is just being weird smelling something in the air every day for hours?

Thanks for any input!!

AJ


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## Murphy18

Hey, sorry i'm no expert by any means but i would just like to say that is a beautiful snake







, only just started with snakes myself last week (Baby Ball Python). I know it may sound kinda stupid and basic but are temps etc.. all good? I dont know the exact requirements for Boa's but just though i'd throw it out there, hope you can solve the problem, hopefully its nothing to be concerned about.

And once again nice snake!!


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## TimmyTeam

there was one corn snake at my work that did exactly what you explained alot as well. It was about 5-6 years old, so it was a bit older. I did end up selling it to a couple (this was a few years ago) and they still come in saying hes doing great. Im no expert by any means, and have no clue why they do it, i just thought id share my experience.


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## SERRAPYGO

Hopefully, it's not a nuerological problem. If so, there's nothing that can be done for that. Good luck!


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## iceh86

what are the dimensions of the enclosure? How often does she do it/ how long has she been doing it?


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## burton12387

Iceh - The enclosure is 6x2x2, and i have noticed it mostly in about the last month. Diet has not changed, and the cage conditions have not changed. I have moved into a new apartment but that is it. The snake is approx. 10 years old.

AJ


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## psychofish

When did you move? Maybe its just picking up on a new scent in the new apt.


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## Mettle

It sounds a lot like stargazing, which could be a sign of ibd...









http://www.anapsid.org/stargaze.html



> Stargazing is a term used to describe a deceptively innocuous behavior: the head and neck are raised almost straight up, as if the affected animal is gazing at the stars. This condition is common to several diseases that affect the central nervous system. Symptoms that often occur with stargazing are disorientation and the inability to right itself.
> 
> There are several conditions that may cause the symptom of stargazing, including viral infections such as paramyxovirus, found in viperids and some colubrids and boids which attacks the respiratory and neurological systems; and inclusion body disease, found in boids, which involves the respiratory, gastrointestinal and neurological systems. Bacterial infections such as meningitis, and septic infections that breach the blood-brain barrier may also cause stargazing. Major organ dysfunction may also cause dysregulation of normal metabolism which in turn may cause neurological disease. Extreme temperatures, head injuries, and toxins (as from flea sprays, pest strips, cleaning products and environmental toxins) may also cause neurological disorders.
> 
> A thorough examination, including fecal and pathology work-up, must be done to determine the underlying cause. As stargazing is merely a symptom of a deeper, potentially quite serious disease or disorder, the underlying condition itself must be treated.
> 
> Note that some snakes will sit for some time with their heads raised, often with their face pointed to screen or ventilation panels in their enclosure. So long as there are no other signs associated with this behavior, and the behavior is not prolonged or frequent, there may be nothing with which to be concerned. For information on stargazing in boas and pythons, please see my article on Inclusion Body Disease.


http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html



> Inclusion body disease (IBD) has been increasingly diagnosed in boas and pythons ("boids"). It is believed to be a retrovirus. The way it affects these two groups of snakes is slightly different but the long term effects are the same: the disease is terminal in those animals who exhibit symptoms of the disease.
> 
> Pythons, although their symptoms may be somewhat less, are just as affected as boas. There are asymptomatic carriers, so the fact that a boa or python within an infected collection does not show signs of the illness should not be taken to mean that it is immune to it. Boas are most associated with being asymptomatic carriers.
> 
> Signs of infection in boas include central nervous system disorders such as paralysis, being unable to right itself when turned over, "star-gazing", inability to strike or constrict. Other signs include chronic regurgitation, extreme weight loss, respiratory infections, and dysecdysis due to the inability to control body movements enough to rub off the old skin. The disease is rapidly fatal in young and juvenile boas, typified by rapid onset of flaccid paralysis.
> 
> In pythons, the disease progresses much more rapidly than in boas. Along with the above symptoms (excluding the chronic regurgitation), pythons also tend toward infectious stomatitis ("mouth rot"), heightened or exaggerated reflex responses, disorientation (which may be precipitated by the onset of central blindness) and loss of motor coordination.
> 
> What causes this disease? Intracytoplasmic eosinophilic inclusion bodies have been identified in the epithelial cells of the kidneys and pancreas. Neuronal degeneration and lesions form in the spinal cord and brain, and may be accompanied by myelin degeneration and nerve damage. Damage to the spleen is also found, with that organ being grossly atrophied and fibrosed. Electron microscopy has found that the organism falls into the retrovirus category.
> 
> The snake mite, Ophionyssus natricis, has been found in collections in which IBD has occurred but it is not implicated in all cases of infection.
> 
> As this has been identified as a viral entity, it may spread like a virus, through contact between infectious organisms (such as housing an infected snake with a previously healthy one) or through airborne aerosolized secretions, or by the keeper passing secretions from one snake or enclosure to another during the course of handling or cleaning (when strict quarantine and cleaning procedures are not followed).
> 
> There is at this time no treatment for the disease and, as it is at this time always fatal and highly contagious, euthanasia is the course of action recommended. Even if the snake can be kept alive through supportive measures (hydration and force-feeding), the damage to the nerves, brain, spinal cord and internal organs is so great--and progressive--that live is only prolonged with an ever decreasing quality and increasing pain.
> 
> Due to the increasing incidence of this disease, it cannot be stated or urged strongly enough to QUARANTINE ALL NEW BOIDS upon acquisition for at least 3-6 months, and to take precautions when visiting other collections, pet stores and expos/swaps.


Hopefully it's just the move and new place that has affected the snake.


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## burton12387

Mettle,

Thank you for the information, even though it makes me really worried now, haha. Hopefully it is not IBD. She fed yesterday without any problems, and has been sitting on her heat mat all night and morning curled up like normal. Im hoping that her sitting like in the above picture is a result of the new scents of the apartment and her new location of her cage, she is merely trying to explore and check stuff out. I will continue to monitor the regularity of her "star gazing"

Thanks again Mettle,
AJ


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## Mettle

No problem. I didn't want to worry you, but I feel it's good info to have. Especially since ibd was once a real plague and killed off more than a few collections during its peak. It seems to be far less regular now. But good to know about in case you have friends with snakes and they want to come over or you want to go over to their place. Don't want to be transmitting anything.

I noticed in the pic her head is right by the ventilation screen. Is this normally where she perches her head like that? Because it would be a prime spot for new scents to be coming into her tank.


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