# Overview of crocs as pets



## Omnius (Mar 20, 2006)

I have had a passing interest in keeping crocadiles and was wondering about your experiences. **I have already determined that a croc/caiman/alligator is NOT the right pet for me** However I want to know about your croc, personalities setups, feeding,ease/difficulty in care, handling and other various aspects. And enclosures. Also the smallest croc availible on the market, and if possible the most laid back (If there is such a thing) Especially from Crockeeper.

Thanks.

I also would like pics as well!


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

i believe the dwarf caimans tha smallest? or maybe im wrong. ne ways, i know it grows to a pretty small size.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Crocodilians as pets....

Well this is a subject for a major leaque multiple page thread....









Do crocodilians make good pets....I do not know if I like the word "pet"....but if any reptile qualifies as a sentient intelligent responsive creature..it would be the crocodilians.

They make challenging captives. They grow to enormous sizes comparative to their meager starts out of the egg. They live in excess of 70 years. They are capable of causing human death, dismemberment and disfigurment.

Even the smallest of them are large, agile dangerous animals. This is part of their appeal undoubtedly, the danger, the intelligence, the longevity of life. These creatures have captivated mankind for as long as we have walked the planet. They are deity, myth and legend incarnate.

This is a new era for keepers of these animals. 20 years ago the Spectecled Caiman (_Caiman crocodylus_) was the most common kept in captivity, and the american alligator while also common, was on the endangered species list. Now the alligator is off the list, is commonly kept, and the Spec is listed as endangered due to Fish and Wildlife agencies lazy unwillingness to learn how to tell the difference between the caiman species.

Alligators make wonderful captives temperment wise. Caiman do not. Crocodiles definately do not.
Of them all the American Alligator (_Alligator mississipiensis_) is a mellow animal that would be perfect except for the size these animals reach as adults.

*Nothing* in my opinion is cuter than a hatchling crocodilian. They have enormous heads on tiny bodies and their vocalizations endear them to everyone. This is never reason, however, to obtain them as captives.

Commonly available currently to new hobbyists are American Alligators (_Alligator mississipiensis_), Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (_Paleosuchus palpebrosus_), Schneider's Dwarf Caiman (_Paleosuchus trigonatus_) and to a minor extent the once omni present Spectecled Caiman (_Caiman crocodylus_). Rarely available are the true crocodiles, and among those available to american enthusiasts are the Nile Crocodile (_Crocodylus niloticus_)...<most available currently are from madagascar imports, with a _few_ mainland african animals avialble>...the Morelet's Crocodile (_Crocodylus moreleti_) which is a CITES 1 animal that is bred in increasing numbers annually in the US, Indo-Pacific or Salt Water Crocodiles (_Crocodylus porosus_) which are bred in small quantities every year here in the US, and in great numbers abroad... and unfortunately hybrids of these are also available increasingly....

I am going to take a moment here to hop up on my soap box (sorry, but you knew it was coming) in regards to the current trend in hybridization...
*DO NOT DO IT!* You negate the intrinsic value of the animal by destroying its genetic heritage. Many people think that by breeding an endangered species to one that is not endangered they can sell the offspring across state lines without bothering with federal USDI permits...._which is incorrect!_ There is also an individual who markets his hybrid caiman under a specific name, and tells people that they are "tamer" and more pet quality as a result..also erroneous. If you want to take on the enormous responsibility that is croc keeping..do so being preparred to keep the animal as nature intended.

Ok..where were we?

If you want a crocodilian I strongly recommend the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (_Paleosuchus palpebrosus_) not because it is a gentle handleable animal, but because it is as an adult capable of being kept by the average hobbyist provided they are readyu to commit the room. An adult male is a 5 foot animal, which mind you is a large and DANGEROUS caiman. As neonates they are extremely attractive and shy, but grow rapidly with quality diets and lighting. They are easy keepers in LARGE aquaria _after_ their first year. Many people have this uncontrolable desire to overhandle their captives...these animals do not like being handled, it stresses them out and in many cases leads to dead animals quickly.

Many states have laws prohibiting possesion of crocodilians, and the species listed vary from state to state...it is also very important that you realize that even in states where legal...many counties, and cities have laws prohibiting possession. Home owners insurance policies often exclude coverage if dangerous animals are kept....an often overlooked small print issue... and liability insuarance is not just a good idea..in today's world it is a must.

Obviously I have the ability to carry on here, and look forward to doing so.....
I want to see who all we have that already possess some of these awesome ancient animals, and what kind of information we want to cover...tanks, filtration, lighting, outdoor enclosures, diets, breeding...etc...

Lets get a GREAT thread started!


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

what's the difference between Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (Paleosuchus palpebrosus) and Schneider's Dwarf Caiman (Paleosuchus trigonatus). sorry, i only thought there was only one type of dwarf.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Quite a few differences....and Schneider's is a much larger animal as anm adult.

Cuvier's information covered here perfectly:

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetolog...cs/csp_ppal.htm

Schneider's here:

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetolog...cs/csp_ptri.htm


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## Snake_Eyes (Jun 14, 2006)

Lets talk about the ****** caiman because of "hybrid vigor" do you have any idea how large it would get and do you know of anybody that has an adult? I've only seen pictures of babies.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

They have not been producing them long enough for anyone to have an adult yet....but both species involved are capable of 7-8 feet as adult males...and this is a very realistic possibility ....the "hybrid vigor" you see in siamese/salt crosses probably will not be a factor with the **** caiman as they are VERY closely related species (were subspecies of the same species until latest taxonomic shifts).


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

What's up with the stars in the caiman's name? I honestly don't know what they're supposed to be...can you fill me in?


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

I am trying not to use the "trade" name applied to some caiman produced by a specific breeder who uses it to describe his "pet" quality "tame" hatchling Caiman which are hybrids between the Yacare Caiman, and the Spectecled Caiman. There is no such thing as "pet quality" Caiman, or Caiman that are "tame".

I have raised several crocodilians that I would say were as close to tame as you get, and I know several Alligator owners that have done the same..but ALWAYS remember these are crocodilians...and the opportunity to bite may be taken at any given moment.

When asked why he was so successful with his crocodiles, and why he has never been injured seriously, Robert Bredl (the barefoot bushman) replied that he never forgets a croc is a croc, and they get along fine.


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