# new tank cycling question



## scotth42 (May 4, 2008)

i just set up my 125g with 2 new filters i used some old media from my other filter i am also using 2 aquaclear 70's that are cycled from my other tank my fish have been in the tank for 2 days with a 0 ammo reading today i have a .25 reading i did a 40% wc today and my ammo is still .25 i am wondering how to deal with this how often should i be doing wc and should i add something for the ammo like prime or just keep using a water dechorinater? also what signs can i look for if my fishes health start to decline i still can move them back to my other tank if i had to these fish are 2in and have not ate like normal since the move just a few bites here and there very un normal for them


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Prime is a very good product for established tanks. With new setups such as yours you will actually be getting more ammonia readings than if you used a product such as AquaSafe. Reason being is Prime will initially convert any ammonia into its safe form "ammonium" but over a period of a couple days the ammonium will convert back to ammonia, in essence delaying the completion of a cycle. Just add a small amount of salt to the tank such as 1 tablespoon for every 5-10 gallons of water to help the fish through any nitrite spike and use aquasafe as a conditioner to safely detox the ammonia in the tank.


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## scotth42 (May 4, 2008)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Prime is a very good product for established tanks. With new setups such as yours you will actually be getting more ammonia readings than if you used a product such as AquaSafe. Reason being is Prime will initially convert any ammonia into its safe form "ammonium" but over a period of a couple days the ammonium will convert back to ammonia, in essence delaying the completion of a cycle. Just add a small amount of salt to the tank such as 1 tablespoon for every 5-10 gallons of water to help the fish through any nitrite spike and use aquasafe as a conditioner to safely detox the ammonia in the tank.


i'm using top fin now to dechorinate my water is this aquasafe different don't they both do the same thing? and how often should i do wc and how much about my fish are very active swimming up to the top all over the glass i hope this isn't some kind of stress they will not eat anything i put in there just small bites it has been 2 days since they had there appetite i'm wondering if it is the water or being moved to the new tank i'm thinking about putting them back in there old tank if they don't eat soon they always ate like pigs whenever i would drop something in now they swim right over it and nothing


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

scotth42 said:


> Prime is a very good product for established tanks. With new setups such as yours you will actually be getting more ammonia readings than if you used a product such as AquaSafe. Reason being is Prime will initially convert any ammonia into its safe form "ammonium" but over a period of a couple days the ammonium will convert back to ammonia, in essence delaying the completion of a cycle. Just add a small amount of salt to the tank such as 1 tablespoon for every 5-10 gallons of water to help the fish through any nitrite spike and use aquasafe as a conditioner to safely detox the ammonia in the tank.


i'm using top fin now to dechorinate my water is this aquasafe different don't they both do the same thing? and how often should i do wc and how much about my fish are very active swimming up to the top all over the glass i hope this isn't some kind of stress they will not eat anything i put in there just small bites it has been 2 days since they had there appetite i'm wondering if it is the water or being moved to the new tank i'm thinking about putting them back in there old tank if they don't eat soon they always ate like pigs whenever i would drop something in now they swim right over it and nothing
[/quote]
Here is 2 emails I received from the guys at Marineland:

Here is a communication I received from Robert Huber (Marineland, United Pet Group, Aquatics Division)

Email#1

*Hello,
The products convert ammonia to ammonium. This lasts for a short period
of time. The ammonium slowly converts back into ammonia over a couple
of
days. This allows the bacteria to build up in newer aquaria. When using
bio-spira you're starting with a full dose. The available ammonia is
not
sufficient to sustain the amount of bacteria added. It doesn't kill
bio-spira but it does reduce the effectiveness and lengthens cycling
time. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 
*
Email #2

*Hello,
Ammonia detoxifiers do have a negative affect on bio-spira. Most water
conditioners just break the chloramine bound. This leaves a trace
amount
of ammonia that is broken down by your bio-filter. Using products like,
start right, aquasafe, nov-aqua, and a few others will be fine.
Particularly, prime, amquel, ACE, and Ammo-Lock should be avoided for
about a month after dosing. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 *

Sorry, dont know about top fin. As far as the fish being near the surface can be a sign that the gills are starting to be affected. I would not worry about them eating. The salt will aid in gill function.


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## scotth42 (May 4, 2008)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Prime is a very good product for established tanks. With new setups such as yours you will actually be getting more ammonia readings than if you used a product such as AquaSafe. Reason being is Prime will initially convert any ammonia into its safe form "ammonium" but over a period of a couple days the ammonium will convert back to ammonia, in essence delaying the completion of a cycle. Just add a small amount of salt to the tank such as 1 tablespoon for every 5-10 gallons of water to help the fish through any nitrite spike and use aquasafe as a conditioner to safely detox the ammonia in the tank.


i'm using top fin now to dechorinate my water is this aquasafe different don't they both do the same thing? and how often should i do wc and how much about my fish are very active swimming up to the top all over the glass i hope this isn't some kind of stress they will not eat anything i put in there just small bites it has been 2 days since they had there appetite i'm wondering if it is the water or being moved to the new tank i'm thinking about putting them back in there old tank if they don't eat soon they always ate like pigs whenever i would drop something in now they swim right over it and nothing
[/quote]
Here is 2 emails I received from the guys at Marineland:

Here is a communication I received from Robert Huber (Marineland, United Pet Group, Aquatics Division)

Email#1

*Hello,
The products convert ammonia to ammonium. This lasts for a short period
of time. The ammonium slowly converts back into ammonia over a couple
of
days. This allows the bacteria to build up in newer aquaria. When using
bio-spira you're starting with a full dose. The available ammonia is
not
sufficient to sustain the amount of bacteria added. It doesn't kill
bio-spira but it does reduce the effectiveness and lengthens cycling
time. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 
*
Email #2

*Hello,
Ammonia detoxifiers do have a negative affect on bio-spira. Most water
conditioners just break the chloramine bound. This leaves a trace
amount
of ammonia that is broken down by your bio-filter. Using products like,
start right, aquasafe, nov-aqua, and a few others will be fine.
Particularly, prime, amquel, ACE, and Ammo-Lock should be avoided for
about a month after dosing. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 *

Sorry, dont know about top fin. As far as the fish being near the surface can be a sign that the gills are starting to be affected. I would not worry about them eating. The salt will aid in gill function.
[/quote]yesterday i add my 2 aq 70's that are cycled they ran from last night to today my ammo is now at 0 i tested it just now the fish are very active i removed there driftwood so no hides the aggression has stopped but the only problem is they will not eat. the worms i left in are still there so is the shrimp it looks chewed on but not eaten. it has been 3 days since they have not shown any interest in food. i will get some aquasafe today my nitrates are .5 nitrites are 0 ph is 7.8 or 7.6 tap is 7.4 my ph seems a bit high but i think the sand raised it a bit my other tank is a stable 7.4 thanks for the advice. i ran into this problem with an uncycled tank before i knew about it with my oscar i added a 7in oscar to my 65g and then the ammo went sky high i had to do wc everyday the ammo would shoot right back up i dosed with the prime at every wc it took about 4months for that tank to cycle then i was told to not use prime on a uncycled tank. so i should just add the amount of aquasafe to the amount of water i remove at my wc right? if i take out 40% dose for 40g then refill my tank right. not dose for the whole 125g right


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

scotth42 said:


> Prime is a very good product for established tanks. With new setups such as yours you will actually be getting more ammonia readings than if you used a product such as AquaSafe. Reason being is Prime will initially convert any ammonia into its safe form "ammonium" but over a period of a couple days the ammonium will convert back to ammonia, in essence delaying the completion of a cycle. Just add a small amount of salt to the tank such as 1 tablespoon for every 5-10 gallons of water to help the fish through any nitrite spike and use aquasafe as a conditioner to safely detox the ammonia in the tank.


i'm using top fin now to dechorinate my water is this aquasafe different don't they both do the same thing? and how often should i do wc and how much about my fish are very active swimming up to the top all over the glass i hope this isn't some kind of stress they will not eat anything i put in there just small bites it has been 2 days since they had there appetite i'm wondering if it is the water or being moved to the new tank i'm thinking about putting them back in there old tank if they don't eat soon they always ate like pigs whenever i would drop something in now they swim right over it and nothing
[/quote]
Here is 2 emails I received from the guys at Marineland:

Here is a communication I received from Robert Huber (Marineland, United Pet Group, Aquatics Division)

Email#1

*Hello,
The products convert ammonia to ammonium. This lasts for a short period
of time. The ammonium slowly converts back into ammonia over a couple
of
days. This allows the bacteria to build up in newer aquaria. When using
bio-spira you're starting with a full dose. The available ammonia is
not
sufficient to sustain the amount of bacteria added. It doesn't kill
bio-spira but it does reduce the effectiveness and lengthens cycling
time. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 
*
Email #2

*Hello,
Ammonia detoxifiers do have a negative affect on bio-spira. Most water
conditioners just break the chloramine bound. This leaves a trace
amount
of ammonia that is broken down by your bio-filter. Using products like,
start right, aquasafe, nov-aqua, and a few others will be fine.
Particularly, prime, amquel, ACE, and Ammo-Lock should be avoided for
about a month after dosing. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 *

Sorry, dont know about top fin. As far as the fish being near the surface can be a sign that the gills are starting to be affected. I would not worry about them eating. The salt will aid in gill function.
[/quote]yesterday i add my 2 aq 70's that are cycled they ran from last night to today my ammo is now at 0 *(Good, than your nitrites should be zero also if not by now real soon)* i tested it just now the fish are very active i removed there driftwood so no hides the aggression has stopped but the only problem is they will not eat. the worms i left in are still there so is the shrimp it looks chewed on but not eaten. it has been 3 days since they have not shown any interest in food. i will get some aquasafe today my nitrates are .5 nitrites are 0 ph is 7.8 or 7.6 tap is 7.4 my ph seems a bit high but i think the sand raised it a bit my other tank is a stable 7.4 thanks for the advice. i ran into this problem with an uncycled tank before i knew about it with my oscar i added a 7in oscar to my 65g and then the ammo went sky high i had to do wc everyday the ammo would shoot right back up i dosed with the prime at every wc it took about 4months for that tank to cycle then i was told to not use prime on a uncycled tank. so i should just add the amount of aquasafe to the amount of water i remove at my wc right? *(Correct)* if i take out 40% dose for 40g then refill my tank right. *(Correct)* not dose for the whole 125g right








[/quote]


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## scotth42 (May 4, 2008)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Prime is a very good product for established tanks. With new setups such as yours you will actually be getting more ammonia readings than if you used a product such as AquaSafe. Reason being is Prime will initially convert any ammonia into its safe form "ammonium" but over a period of a couple days the ammonium will convert back to ammonia, in essence delaying the completion of a cycle. Just add a small amount of salt to the tank such as 1 tablespoon for every 5-10 gallons of water to help the fish through any nitrite spike and use aquasafe as a conditioner to safely detox the ammonia in the tank.


i'm using top fin now to dechorinate my water is this aquasafe different don't they both do the same thing? and how often should i do wc and how much about my fish are very active swimming up to the top all over the glass i hope this isn't some kind of stress they will not eat anything i put in there just small bites it has been 2 days since they had there appetite i'm wondering if it is the water or being moved to the new tank i'm thinking about putting them back in there old tank if they don't eat soon they always ate like pigs whenever i would drop something in now they swim right over it and nothing
[/quote]
Here is 2 emails I received from the guys at Marineland:

Here is a communication I received from Robert Huber (Marineland, United Pet Group, Aquatics Division)

Email#1

*Hello,
The products convert ammonia to ammonium. This lasts for a short period
of time. The ammonium slowly converts back into ammonia over a couple
of
days. This allows the bacteria to build up in newer aquaria. When using
bio-spira you're starting with a full dose. The available ammonia is
not
sufficient to sustain the amount of bacteria added. It doesn't kill
bio-spira but it does reduce the effectiveness and lengthens cycling
time. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 
*
Email #2

*Hello,
Ammonia detoxifiers do have a negative affect on bio-spira. Most water
conditioners just break the chloramine bound. This leaves a trace
amount
of ammonia that is broken down by your bio-filter. Using products like,
start right, aquasafe, nov-aqua, and a few others will be fine.
Particularly, prime, amquel, ACE, and Ammo-Lock should be avoided for
about a month after dosing. 
Regards, 
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
[email protected]
1-800-526-0650 ext. 6126 *

Sorry, dont know about top fin. As far as the fish being near the surface can be a sign that the gills are starting to be affected. I would not worry about them eating. The salt will aid in gill function.
[/quote]yesterday i add my 2 aq 70's that are cycled they ran from last night to today my ammo is now at 0 *(Good, than your nitrites should be zero also if not by now real soon)* i tested it just now the fish are very active i removed there driftwood so no hides the aggression has stopped but the only problem is they will not eat. the worms i left in are still there so is the shrimp it looks chewed on but not eaten. it has been 3 days since they have not shown any interest in food. i will get some aquasafe today my nitrates are .5 nitrites are 0 ph is 7.8 or 7.6 tap is 7.4 my ph seems a bit high but i think the sand raised it a bit my other tank is a stable 7.4 thanks for the advice. i ran into this problem with an uncycled tank before i knew about it with my oscar i added a 7in oscar to my 65g and then the ammo went sky high i had to do wc everyday the ammo would shoot right back up i dosed with the prime at every wc it took about 4months for that tank to cycle then i was told to not use prime on a uncycled tank. so i should just add the amount of aquasafe to the amount of water i remove at my wc right? *(Correct)* if i take out 40% dose for 40g then refill my tank right. *(Correct)* not dose for the whole 125g right








[/quote]
[/quote]
i am now starting to get a nitrite reading should i keep doing what i have been doing wc 2 times a week and treating with aquasafe and adding salt or change something?


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

im not an expert but it sounds good to me. shouldn't be long anymore and you'll be completely cycled. Enjoy your new tank. and just out of curiosity what did you get for new filters?


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## scotth42 (May 4, 2008)

ShoalNotShark said:


> im not an expert but it sounds good to me. shouldn't be long anymore and you'll be completely cycled. Enjoy your new tank. and just out of curiosity what did you get for new filters?


i just added some media to my new filters and they have been just running a week why would i be getting a nitrite reading so fast i would think it would take longer? i got a fluval fx5 and an eheim pro 3 and i got 2 cycled aquaclear 70's on a 125g after my tank cycles i'll just run a aq 110 and the 2 cannisters for 7 p's i hope i can do 7 in a 125g i was also thinking of maybe selling 2 and adding a pirya


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

it doesnt take long once you get bacteria established whether its by waiting or by adding established filters. and i think that many piranhas will be fine. they say i p per 20g and your close to that. u definitely have plenty of filter for that many fish. as for the piraya thing i have no idea. i dont no much about piranhas. sry i couldnt give you better answers. someone will be along soon to help you with piraya question i would guess


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Scott, that you are getting a nitrite reading is proof that the cycle is progressing. Just continue with what you are doing and maintain a tablespoon of salt (predissolved) for every 5-10 gallons of water.


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