# NOES!!!



## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

He was too young to die. I only got him 3 months ago. There was nothing wrong with the water. everything perfect. But none the less, this morning I found my tiger belly up dead on the bottom of the tank. Perfect in all ways except dead. Remember when I first got them? the first two died. Well.. this one same thing. Hic..gurggle..die. WTF! So now my tank only has the Arro, Ornate bichir, convict and pleco. It just seems so empty. I won't have to worry about getting AS big of a tank when I upgrade. But still.. This sucks. 
So now what? Nothing else seems very interesting. Nothing I can do in this tank anyways. 
I wish I could get one of hose serpentfaced fish. like one of the little ones. dwarf rainbow. 
If only I could find one.

Heres the last pic I have to share with you guys of my tiger fish.


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## jan (Apr 24, 2004)

I'm sorry to hear that









The frustrating part is that you don't know what causes it's dead....... I wish you luck with finding a rainbow, your best bet would be your local classifieds, someone from your personal network or your local Asian market.


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## Devon Amazon (Apr 3, 2005)

Sorry man









what was his diet?
dodgy feeder maybe?


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Diet consisted of mainly vitamin enhanced shrimp. occasionally I would toss a couple feeders in. I've only fed gold fish twice. most times feeders would be guppies, danios or other tetras.

Yeah not knowing what killed him does piss me off. but what can you do? I'm not about to go get an autopsy for it. I will just have to suck it up.

As to a replacement. I'm hoping somone here might know where I might get that fish. Sadly I don't have a circle here in WA being fairly new. Altho Canada is an 8hr round trip drive so if worse comes to worse I may just get myself a red arrowana and ditch my silver. I mean if I'm going to do it I might as well go big.


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## Cichlid_Keeper (Mar 30, 2006)

oh man im really sory. i was looking at your siganture at anoher thread and i was thinking why was the ATF crossed off??!!, than i saw this. im sorry.









CK


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

Sry to hear that, to be honest I think it was the Ornate bichir that could have done this, because you said it happened to you 2 times and you found them both in the morning, so they were most likely killed at night,when bichir are most active (thats what i think anyway). I would get like a nice Widebar Dat, they look cool.


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## Cichlid_Keeper (Mar 30, 2006)

how big was he???

CK


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Damn sorry to hear it man!!!!!


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## Cichlid_Keeper (Mar 30, 2006)

he looks fat and healthy. i would be devostated if that was my fish.

CK


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

sorry to hear that. what size is the bicher and arrowana? if they're not that big you could probobly add a large apollo shark or possibly even two or three medium sized rocket gars. that may fill your tank up abit more anyway!


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Matty125 said:


> sorry to hear that. what size is the bicher and arrowana? if they're not that big you could probobly add a large apollo shark or possibly even two or three medium sized rocket gars. that may fill your tank up abit more anyway!


 Never looked at those. I might do some reviewing. but I don't think I would want them. They seem more like a shoaling fish. to really appreciate them I would probably need to get 5+ dunno I'f I'm impressed enough by them to consider the kind of care I would have to provide them.

this is my current problem. After having the ATF it kinda kills the cool factor for most all other fish. 
How do you step down from the craziest FW predator to something else? And this one hadent even hit maturity and was no where near its danger potential. The night before I was looking at 1000 gal tanks to give the beast. cause its just that badassed of a fish. I really was going to keep it to full size. But now. what else would really be worth geting that wouldnt require me to tear up my planted tank? I've got too much invested in these damn plants to turn back now. sh*t I'm dropping carbonated water in the tanks just to get CO2 to them.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

Actually, an apollo shark can get to about 10" max and prefers to go solo,also,it can be a badass as well and it doesn't bother plants. here's a picture of one.








call me crazy but i think it looks very similar to your atf

as for the rocket gars i keep only two. they eventualy get about the same size as the shark. they enjoy floating plants but they don't bother them, they only hide until the get used to you or when they get startled by and they ARE ambush predators, so plants help drastically.









i have in my 55g an apollo shark at 6.5", two rocket gars both around 6", a dojo loach at 7", and they get along happily. im getting a 90g soon!


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

if you REALY wanted a crazy mofo you could get different types of gars, this one for instance would make any tiger fish sh*t its pants!








say hello to the alligator gar, but he gets around ten feet so you would need either an in-ground pool or a flooded basement for this beast

but the longnosed gar can get to four feet









or you can try a short-nosed gar which get to 4' also









keep in mind that THEY WILL BITE FINGERS OFF EASILY if you do decide to get one. i personally know that gar are very cool fish regardless of species good luck in your choice


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Nahh that looks nothing like my ATF. I mean.










And when grown.









Don't get me wrong its a nie fish but I dunno. Maybe If I see um in action.

Maybe a highfin wolf..I think that will work with the plants. He would probably appreciate that. but I also want an active fish and I think he would also wind up killing my bichir.

Rocket gar. Is that a hujata? looks like a fw barracuda realitive not a true gar.

I don't think any true gars would do well in a indoor aquarium for very long. And I really don't want to get a fish at this time that I will need a 3000 gal pond for. So That removes most gars from the options.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah, rocket gars are not true gars but they are a decent alternative to one. in the past i woud have to give away my gars within a month because they grew MUCH to quickly. i but the 'rockets' stay under a foot and have almost identical feeding behavior to other gars:

STEP 1-jump out and grab prey

STEP 2- *CHOMP*

STEP 3-SWALLOW AND WAIT FOR MORE

they stay visible because they're always near the top, and grow some evil looking teeth sortof like cactus needles. in a 75g it is possible for them to reach 10"-12" i would assume larger in a larger tank. i would say they could max out at 14" to "16 inches so it wouldnt be the size of the wolf or tiger fish.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

oh! by the way what is your substrate? sand or gravel? and do you feed any type of sinking food at night because that could be it. the atf could have smelled it and inhaled gravel by mistake, it happened to me with my Dragon fish/dragon goby, which really pissed me off cause that was like my first fish and i made a switch from sand to gravel.


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

Hey i got the most bad ass mofo you could ever have... if you can handle it LMAO. This will kill any of the fish mentioned above... ailligator gar.
View attachment 113644


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

that looks exactly like a pic off google. caught ya!









but if you acctually do have one, or have caught one, what type of noise does it make when it comes to the surface?


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

gar~spaz said:


> that looks exactly like a pic off google. caught ya!
> 
> 
> 
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I wanted one... but at 10' i would never be able to house it. No sry i have never caught one i saw one small one though. Dont really know the nosie,lol. I got the pic of another member from this site dont know where he got it from.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

gar~spaz said:


> oh! by the way what is your substrate? sand or gravel? and do you feed any type of sinking food at night because that could be it. the atf could have smelled it and inhaled gravel by mistake, it happened to me with my Dragon fish/dragon goby, which really pissed me off cause that was like my first fish and i made a switch from sand to gravel.


I have a mix. but that didn't happen. ATFs are far too snobby to eat food off the floor. at least this one was. and I am very strict about how much they get fed. And I do not leave scraps around.

I know now that It was me that killed him. When I went to bed the night before I forgot to turn on the air. ATF's require alot of O2 in their water. And tho the air is off durring the day my tank is planted. So the plants take care of the air needs. however at night plants consume o2 so all that was in there was sucked right back out by the plants leaving far to little o2 for the ATF to survive. He suffocated to death. this is the only sensible thing that I can think of. I was not fully aware of the ATF's high o2 need. Much like a Payara who's dies at maturity due to lacking o2.

And No. No gars. they are boring. and grow to fast and too big.

And BTW a full grown ATF would not be afraid of a gator Gar. it would fight it head on. if it was with a shoal they would destroy the gar.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

> I have a mix. but that didn't happen. ATFs are far too snobby to eat food off the floor. at least this one was. and I am very strict about how much they get fed. And I do not leave scraps around.
> 
> I know now that It was me that killed him. When I went to bed the night before I forgot to turn on the air. ATF's require alot of O2 in their water. And tho the air is off durring the day my tank is planted. So the plants take care of the air needs. however at night plants consume o2 so all that was in there was sucked right back out by the plants leaving far to little o2 for the ATF to survive. He suffocated to death. this is the only sensible thing that I can think of. I was not fully aware of the ATF's high o2 need. Much like a Payara who's dies at maturity due to lacking o2.
> 
> ...


hmm. that sucks, maybe one day you can get one, and they are sort of interesting to watch, especially when eating. and for the record a tiger fish shoal vs. an alligator gar would depend alot on the surroundings, in a tight space(for arguements sake a pond) its the gar hands down, but out in the open(like a lake) the tigers would kill it, not without cassualties however!because just one bite and their dead



> I wanted one... but at 10' i would never be able to house it. No sry i have never caught one i saw one small one though. Dont really know the nosie,lol. I got the pic of another member from this site dont know where he got it from.


i used to have one before i moved but i gave it away. they guy i gave it to keeps it in an in-ground swimming pool before i left it was close to 1ft. i e-mailed him and he said he's closser to 7ft now!

btw, you know the flying things in the third tremors movie? it makes a hiss like them when pulled to the surface


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> oh! by the way what is your substrate? sand or gravel? and do you feed any type of sinking food at night because that could be it. the atf could have smelled it and inhaled gravel by mistake, it happened to me with my Dragon fish/dragon goby, which really pissed me off cause that was like my first fish and i made a switch from sand to gravel.


And No. No gars. they are boring. and grow to fast and too big.

And BTW *a full grown ATF would not be afraid of a gator Gar*. it would fight it head on. if it was with a shoal they would destroy the gar.
[/quote]
Uh yes it would, lol...Hydrocynus vittatus only gets to 20-23" or a little under 2 feet when gator gars can get to 10 feet i am sry no way in hell would a 2' fish pose any problem to a 10' foot fish its an 8' difference,lol. The Golith tiger fish getting up to 5', thats a different story. Anyway pointless aruging about it cause we will never know anyway. I dont find gars boring ig giving enough room the can be pretty cool, but that is a personal opinon. You can get a knife fish for your tank.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree! but apparently you agree with me too!


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

and i would just get a black arrowana, they are rare but they have the same requirements as silver arrows, personally i think they're prettier.


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

gar~spaz said:


> and i would just get a black arrowana, they are rare but they have the same requirements as silver arrows, personally i think they're prettier.


An aro co hab is hard... That is why i am asking can it be done in other topic, oh also black aros are more agressive than silvers. Normally you can do an aro co hab but it is very hard: A to house 2 3foot fish is never simple and B if you do it your aros will never have prefect finage, that is what i herd but i actually did see an aro co hab with like 4 2-4' silvers all with good finage.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

> An aro co hab is hard... That is why i am asking can it be done in other topic, oh also black aros are more agressive than silvers. Normally you can do an aro co hab but it is very hard: A to house 2 3foot fish is never simple and B if you do it your aros will never have prefect finage, that is what i herd but i actually did see an aro co hab with like 4 2-4' silvers all with good finage.












ive never heard of black arrows being more aggressive, but they are MUCH more expensive and A LOT rarer, anyway it looked like the arrow he has is around five inches(+/-) and if he can find a black one and get a larger tank then i suppose they would both establish their own territory in the tank and the competition for food and space i would immagine would keep them healthy and active.


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

gar~spaz said:


> > An aro co hab is hard... That is why i am asking can it be done in other topic, oh also black aros are more agressive than silvers. Normally you can do an aro co hab but it is very hard: A to house 2 3foot fish is never simple and B if you do it your aros will never have prefect finage, that is what i herd but i actually did see an aro co hab with like 4 2-4' silvers all with good finage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


U calling me a bullshiter,lol?? sry i didnt mean blacks are more agro (i was thinking jardini for some reason), well, they are wild caught. I also said the co hab is possible but both the aros would pick at each other fins. I have not only heard of this but also seen it frist hand many time. I never said they would be unhealthy but they would never look 100% which is a real pitty because if u are gonna spend 250$ for a black aro u will want it look 100% which is why i said its not a good idea and he will also need a tank of 500 gal+ oh did i mention no normal tank would do u would need to have it cstom biuld but BlackSunshine biuld his 75 so it should not pose to much of a problem.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

> U calling me a bullshiter,lol?? sry i didnt mean blacks are more agro (i was thinking jardini for some reason), well, they are wild caught. I also said the co hab is possible but both the aros would pick at each other fins. I have not only heard of this but also seen it frist hand many time. I never said they would be unhealthy but they would never look 100% which is a real pitty because if u are gonna spend 250$ for a black aro u will want it look 100% which is why i said its not a good idea and he will also need a tank of 500 gal+ oh did i mention no normal tank would do u would need to have it cstom biuld but BlackSunshine biuld his 75 so it should not pose to much of a problem.


on his first post he said he was looking at 1000 gallon tanks to give his atf, in a tank that size i think they would both look 100%, that is to say IF he decides to buy one!


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

:jump:by first post i mean his first post replying to me!


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

^Oh didnt see it... 1000 would work.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

i think it would look pretty cool to, even adding a few chiclids would be an open option with a tank that big another bichir or convict would work as well i would think.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

yeah silvers and blacks are basically the same save for colloring and blacks stay slightly smaller. but co habbing them would be no prob. I have a silver that was with the tiger. and they buddied up. But like a puppy the tiger likes to play and nip. never too bad but he would play. otherwise they did fine toghether. 
given 1000 gal yeah you can co hab just about anything. 
But arows with cichlids usually does mean nipped arrow fins and lost chin forks.

Anyways to the gars. I don't wanna have to upgrade as soon as I would should I get a Gar. they grow horribly fast. 
As to gar vs ATF's a shoal would make short work of the gar. 10' gar. no biggie. ATFs would dance around it and the gar would be hard pressed to get a bite in. But alas they are from dif parts of the world and for someone to pull off the tank to see that fight it would be a horrible undertaking for such a barbaric outcome and loss of many an awesome fish.

What I really want is what Maty there has in his avatar.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

> yeah silvers and blacks are basically the same save for colloring and blacks stay slightly smaller. but co habbing them would be no prob. I have a silver that was with the tiger. and they buddied up. But like a puppy the tiger likes to play and nip. never too bad but he would play. otherwise they did fine toghether.
> given 1000 gal yeah you can co hab just about anything.
> But arows with cichlids usually does mean nipped arrow fins and lost chin forks.
> 
> ...


going back to the gar vs. tiger fish think of how a snake strikes: a quick burst of speed, and just one bate would LITERALLY snap them into at least three peices. of course i dought anyone would ever witness this but alligator gars can pose BIG threats to large sharks!

and anyway, isn't that a snakehead? if it is they're incredibly aggressive and i dont think the bichir or the convict would last that long i dont think the pleco or the arrowana would be safe either, but thats just what i've read about them, ive personnaly never owned one.

P.S. did you by any chance order your atf, if so where from? if you did my uncle has a custom 1300 gallon tank that he keeps large pacus in, i think it should be ok in there as long as it gets about eight inches long, they look like they can defend themselves very well!


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

BlackSunshine420 said:


> What I really want is what Maty there has in his avatar.










Oh and garspaz I did not get these pics off google in fact hes mine. I love showinh him off.
View attachment 113813

View attachment 113814

View attachment 113815

View attachment 113816


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah, i figured they were, on every post it says you have two snake heads. but still are they aggressive? isn't that why you have them in tanks by theirselves?

p.s. type in alligator gar on google, its the VERY FIRST pic their!


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## snakehead rock (Mar 26, 2006)

gar~spaz said:


> Yeah, i figured they were, on every post it says you have two snake heads. *but still are they aggressive?* isn't that why you have them in tanks by theirselves?
> 
> p.s. type in alligator gar on google, its the VERY FIRST pic their!


Why else would SH be banned in the US and part of canada. They are crazy, unfortanly my red line is a runt and will problbly die soon







. My rainbow is also *very* stressed out because he had to move twice sence his tank buste, i really hope he will be okay. So anyway go to the snakehead forum and look at the vids i belive i have one of my rainbow at 4" eating a 2" feeder that did not fit in his mouth,lol.Anyway, about ur qustion it depends on what kind of SH and the personallity of the fish. I personally do not like taking a risk with SH, but i belive Jan housed his 2 miros with pacus, cat fish and arowanas. I keep them in a tank by themselfs because they do best like that.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

i dont have a video of it but my hujeta gars just rip fins off if they cant swallow the feeder whole


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## DuffmanRC (Oct 2, 2003)

you might be able to try peacock bass if you still want to get that larger tank. just get them large enough so that your fish cant eat them and small enough that they dont eat your fish lol.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

gar~spaz said:


> you might be able to try peacock bass if you still want to get that larger tank. just get them large enough so that your fish cant eat them and small enough that they dont eat your fish lol.


nahh.. I'm not ready to do that upgrade. Altho I almost grabbed one this weekend.


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## gar~spaz (Jul 21, 2006)

> heh a store I went to thsi weekend was trying to pass H. Gars off as ATF's they got all snotty with me when I pointed this out to them. they stood behind that they were ATF's. They lost my buisness forever.
> 
> But I did get three new fish from another store.










LOL! they look absolutly nothing alike! h.gars have beeks and cactus pin-like teeth, atfs have tiger teeth and no beeks...it was petland wasnt it?

what fish did you get? i recently was given a red tiger oscar, but i havn't added it yet.(i wait at least a two weeks before i say im actually keeping one)


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