# HUGE Terrorist Attacks Foiled



## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

If you haven't yet, check ANY NEWS SITE NOW. I just found out this morning that apparently they have caught 21 people so far attempting to bring explosives onto planes..... TONS of flights are shut down or delayed and nobody is allowed to bring carry-on luggage or any liquids...

This is scary, but amazing that they actually did catch these guys.... It would have been horrendous to hear about 6 planes exploding and the loss of life.....

I seriously f*cking hate these wack-job crazies.... I really wish there was a simple solution to taking care of them, but there isn't.


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## gvrayman (May 12, 2006)

yeah, the liquid bombs that can be disguised as water or baby formula :laugh:


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

http://www.570news.com/news/international/...ontent=w081035A

British authorities thwart terror plot to blow up several aircraft to U.S.
August 10, 2006 - 9:27

By: DANICA KIRKA

Passengers wait to check in at Manchester Airport Terminal 1 after a terrorist plot to blow up aircraft in mid-air has been foiled by police and security services in England Thursday. (AP Photo/Peter Bryne/PA)

LONDON (AP) - British authorities said Thursday they had thwarted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up several aircraft heading to the United States using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, averting what police described as "mass murder on an unimaginable scale."

Officials raised security to its highest level in Britain - suggesting a terrorist attack might be imminent - and banned carry-on luggage on all trans-Atlantic flights. Huge crowds formed at security barriers at London's Heathrow airport as officials searching for explosives barred nearly every form of liquid outside of baby formula.

The extreme measures at a major international aviation hub sent ripple effects throughout the world. Heathrow was closed to most flights from Europe, and British Airways cancelled all its flights Thursday between the airport and points in Britain, Europe and Libya.

Passengers travelling on about a dozen Air Canada flights from the U.K. to Canada can expect delays of at least an hour, said John Reber, an Air Canada spokesman.

Washington raised its threat alert to its highest level for commercial flights from Britain to the United States amid fears the plot had not been completely crushed. The alert for all flights coming or going from the United States was also raised slightly.

Two U.S. counterterrorism officials said the terrorists had targeted United Airlines, American Airlines and Continental Airlines. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

A U.S. intelligence official said the plotters had hoped to target flights to major airports in New York, Washington and California, all major summer tourist destinations.

Britain's Home Secretary John Reid said 21 people had been arrested in London, its suburbs and in Birmingham following a lengthy investigation, including the alleged "main players" in the plot. Searches continued in a number of locations.

The suspects were "homegrown," though it was not immediately clear if they were all British citizens, said a police official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case. Police were working closely with the South Asian community, the official said.

The official said the plotters intended to simultaneously target multiple planes bound for the United States.

"We think this was an extraordinarily serious plot and we are confident that we've prevented and attempt to committee mass murder on an unimaginable scale," Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson said.

Prime Minister Tony Blair, vacationing in the Caribbean, briefed U.S. President George W. Bush on the situation overnight, Blair's office said. There was no immediate public reaction from the White House. Bush is spending a few days at his ranch near Crawford, Texas.

It is the first time the red alert level in the Homeland Security warning system has been invoked, although there have been brief periods in the past when the orange level was applied. Homeland Security defines the red alert as designating a "severe risk of terrorist attacks."

"We believe that these arrests (in London) have significantly disrupted the threat, but we cannot be sure that the threat has been entirely eliminated or the plot completely thwarted," said U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

He said the operation was "suggestive of an al-Qaida plot."

A senior U.S. counterterrorism official said authorities believe dozens of people - possibly as many as 50 - were involved in the plot. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.

The plan involved airline passengers hiding masked explosives in carry-on luggage, the official said. "They were not yet sitting on an airplane," but were very close to travelling, the official said, calling the plot "the real deal."

Passengers in Britain faced delays as tighter security was hastily enforced at the country's airports and additional measures were put in place for all flights. Laptop computers, mobile phones, iPods, and remote controls were among the items banned from being carried on board.

Liquids, such as hair care products, were also barred on flights in both Britain and the United States, raising the possibility that authorities were searching for a liquid explosive.

In the mid-1990s, officials foiled a plan by terrorist mastermind Ramzi Youssef to blow up 12 Western jetliners simultaneously over the Pacific. The alleged plot involved improvised bombs using liquid hidden in contact lens solution containers.

Huge lines formed at ticket counters and behind security barriers at Heathrow and other airports in Britain. Ed Lappen, 55, a businessman from Boston, who was travelling with his wife and daughter to Russia, found himself unable to travel further.

"We're safe, we're OK," he said at Heathrow. "Now my daughter is going to get a shopping trip in London."

Most European carriers cancelled flights to Heathrow because of the massive delays created after authorities enforced strict new regulations banning most hand baggage.

Heathrow's block on incoming traffic applied to flights of three hours or less, affecting most of the incoming traffic from Europe, an airport spokesman said on condition of anonymity in line with airport policy.

Officials at Frankfurt's airport, Europe's second-busiest, Schiphol in Amsterdam and Charles De Gaulle in Paris said Heathrow-bound planes could instead land at their airports if they needed to.

London's Heathrow airport was the departure point for a devastating terrorist attack on a Pan Am airplane on Dec. 21, 1988. The blast over Lockerbie, Scotland, killed all 259 people aboard Pan Am Flight 103 and 11 people on the ground.

The explosive was hidden in a portable radio which was hidden in checked baggage

_Hmm, we must have done something really bad to offend these people. _


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## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

im not seein it bro.... jerry springer is on though


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## TheTyeMan (Aug 9, 2004)

dude that is fucked up what the hell goes through these guys heads I would realy like to know


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## goochild (Aug 10, 2006)

these people are so stupid!


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

This is some crazy stuff.

Airport security is just going to get worse and worse.


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

As i've heard here before " It's time to turn the Middle East into Glass" How long until people realize that these people will never stop. They don't have to follow any rules, they don't care about human life, hell they send there own children and wives to do suicide bombings. Do you really think diplomacy will work with poeple that are this extreme? Take a look at North Africa, the Muslims are slaughtering Africans by the 1000's, and for what reason? It's time to give these people the choice, Stop terrorizing the world, or we start dropping NUKES !!!!!!!! It would only take a couple of city's being flattened before the "normal" muslims would stop supporting these idiots. If not, [email protected]#K EM !!


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

We are going to have to come a day early to catch a flight now wtf...


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Yeah, except I think these were British citizens if I'm not mistaken.

So then I'm guessing you'd propose genocide?



altimaser said:


> As i've heard here before " It's time to turn the Middle East into Glass" How long until people realize that these people will never stop. They don't have to follow any rules, they don't care about human life, hell they send there own children and wives to do suicide bombings. Do you really think diplomacy will work with poeple that are this extreme? Take a look at North Africa, the Muslims are slaughtering Africans by the 1000's, and for what reason? It's time to give these people the choice, Stop terrorizing the world, or we start dropping NUKES !!!!!!!! It would only take a couple of city's being flattened before the "normal" muslims would stop supporting these idiots. If not, [email protected]#K EM !!


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

You do what ever you have to do to survive. Why keep waisting time with diplomacy, so they can acquire nukes of there own. It isn't working in Iran, North Korea or Lebanon. Maybe we should just sit back and wait for them to sneak a dirty bomb across one of our borders. I bet you that would open a lot of people eyes as to what there all about, World Domination of the Muslim religion. Were they British or were they Muslims living in Britain that were caught? Big diffrence


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## LouDiB (May 22, 2006)

I thought they were Pakistani


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

***waits for more Muslim hatred comments.


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

Its not without warrent, sorry man, thats the way it is. This is the cruel world we live in.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

i came home really drunk last night and thought it was some joke on tv.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

It really is unfortunate that one religion continues to get all the bad press. Kind of like saying all catholic priests molested little boys. IMO it is unfair to blame this on a religious group...when the reality is there are extremist groups that use religion to mask their personal agendas. It happens all the time......at least that is my view.

So lets not make this a religion bashing thread...but an informative thread about a serious problem.


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2006)

Grosse Gurke said:


> It really is unfortunate that one religion continues to get all the bad press. Kind of like saying all catholic priests molested little boys. IMO it is unfair to blame this on a religious group...when the reality is there are extremist groups that use religion to mask their personal agendas. It happens all the time......at least that is my view.
> 
> So lets not make this a religion bashing thread...but an informative thread about a serious problem.










I envy your level headedness...

...but pity your frail old body


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. "Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim". I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

altimaser said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


When is the last time you heard of a Muslim priest molesting little boys? It appears you didnt understand my post at all. 
Ok...there has been bad press about Catholic priests molesting kids...doesnt mean they all do.
Ok...there has been bad press about Muslims being terrorists....doesnt mean they all are though.

I feel that holding entire groups of people responsible for the actions of some members of that group narrow minded at best. Because some whites are racists doesnt make me a racist. Because some Irish are alcoholics doesnt make me one (althogh this might be a streach). Because some people that like watching football on Sundays, beat their wives if their team looses, doesnt mean I have too. Believe it or not...people are individuals even though they may belong to a religion or race.

You see what I am getting at?


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

diddye said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. *"Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim".* I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


I've been saying this for years, and unfortunately the gloves are going to have to come off at some point. All the politically correct talk about how it's only a small extremist minority may be good on the moral plane, but as soon as one of our cities gets decimated, and that extreme minority that comprises millions of people continues to hide in sleeper cells and behind their own Muslim civilians, I guarantee there will be a military approach in this country that rivals Lincoln's during the Civil War. The Muslim majority should be working to rid their societies of these elements, both here in America and overseas.


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

I see your point, and I agree with it. But you don't see Americans rallying around Child molester Priests. You do see Muslims (extremists) rallying around there religious leaders that promote and encourage violence. I am saying that if they can't police there own people then somebody has to do it.

The Muslim majority should be working to rid their societies of these elements, both here in America and overseas.
[/quote]
I second that


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

altimaser said:


> I see your point, and I agree with it. But you don't see Americans rallying around Child molester Priests. You do see Muslims (extremists) rallying around there religious leaders that promote and encourage violence. I am saying that if they can't police there own people then somebody has to do it.


However you did see the Catholic church cover up the actions of their priests for years and instead of policing their own...they continued to allow this small minority of priests have contact with children...so really...it is much the same. However...although this taints the Catholic church..it should not detract from the work of the vast majority of priests. (and no, I am not a religious person)

I agree that this is a huge problem...however I dont believe in killing off an entire race or religion to fix it. I also dont protest to know the answers....


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

There is no simple answer, unfortunately , but we will have to deal with this eventually.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

diddye said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. "Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim". I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


Do you mean terrorists toward the US? There are several guerilla groups (or terrorists) in south america that are not muslim...


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. "Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim". I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


Do you mean terrorists toward the US? There are several guerilla groups (or terrorists) in south america that are not muslim...
[/quote]

I guess mostly against the US, but also against western societies and those that are friendly towards them (ie egypt). There's "terrorists" all over the world, but they normally keep within their own country and they dont aim to kill foreigners. Also, their violence is usually minimal. China has their own terrorists but they stay there, attack there, etc. We can see muslim terrorists in the US, england, spain, france, italy, n. africa, pakistan, se asia,...everywhere and their aim is a muslim world. Or world domination..submission to islam. A world governed by sharia or islamic law.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Good post.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

altimaser said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


ur an A-Grade moron.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Dawgz said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


ur an A-Grade moron.








[/quote]

I think you mean "Grade-A"


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


ur an A-Grade moron.








[/quote]

I think you mean "Grade-A"









[/quote]

Irony at its finest


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


ur an A-Grade moron.








[/quote]

I think you mean "Grade-A"









[/quote]

Irony at its finest















[/quote]


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## Mattones (Jul 9, 2006)

Now my #1 reason why i dont travel through air.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2006)

Fargo said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. *"Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim".* I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


I've been saying this for years, and unfortunately the gloves are going to have to come off at some point. All the politically correct talk about how it's only a small extremist minority may be good on the moral plane, but as soon as one of our cities gets decimated, and that extreme minority that comprises millions of people continues to hide in sleeper cells and behind their own Muslim civilians, I guarantee there will be a military approach in this country that rivals Lincoln's during the Civil War. The Muslim majority should be working to rid their societies of these elements, both here in America and overseas.
[/quote]

Since when are all terrorists muslim? The western world made muslims into terrorist through corrupt politics, unfair sanctioning, irresponsible propaganda..the extremists just used this to further thier view....notice how most terrorists are young men?

Terrorism, at its root, is far worse and has been for a long time in other parts of the world. Mostly parts where the western world hasnt tried to exploit in the name of "capitalism".

Its funny Fargo, whats the difference between you and a idealist (not an extremist) from a Muslim country. They are protecting thier right to survive and protect themselves, just as you say you are. You dont want them to live the way they do because you say its corrupt, they dont want you to live the way you do because they think it's right. They are put into the group of terrorist because of something people do in thier name...We are quick to retaliate when 2 soldiers are kidnapped, but are silent while everyday racial injustice happens to innocents around the world because the "free world" no longer see peace and freedom and a worthy cause.

This plague of polarization happening in the world is leading us down a very dark path.


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## PygoFanatic (May 2, 2006)

Dannyboy, you are wise beyond your years, my Canadian friend.

Tom


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

PygoFanatic said:


> Dannyboy, you are wise beyond your years, my Canadian friend.
> 
> Tom


That - he is...


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Damn, I JUST heard about this. I can't believe it. I'm just thankful I'm in the middle of nowhere that those damn terrosists wouldn't think of bombing.









It's such a shame the world has come to this. Thank goodness the UK was there to save our asses.
~Taylor~


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## Someone (Apr 4, 2006)

ah... yeah.. and I realize you think they are attack because the Israeli airstrike on Lebannon... yeah ..right 
IAF/IDF it's the cause to the "terrorist attacks"..yeah..of curse

when you see what I see
you realize what your biggest and worse nightmare 
and then you realize that terror its not just because "israeli strikes in lebanon" and USA/Europe also on the "Terror Map" without to connection to any jewish/isreali people

good night


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. *"Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim".* I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


I've been saying this for years, and unfortunately the gloves are going to have to come off at some point. All the politically correct talk about how it's only a small extremist minority may be good on the moral plane, but as soon as one of our cities gets decimated, and that extreme minority that comprises millions of people continues to hide in sleeper cells and behind their own Muslim civilians, I guarantee there will be a military approach in this country that rivals Lincoln's during the Civil War. The Muslim majority should be working to rid their societies of these elements, both here in America and overseas.
[/quote]

Since when are all terrorists muslim? The western world made muslims into terrorist through corrupt politics, unfair sanctioning, irresponsible propaganda..the extremists just used this to further thier view....notice how most terrorists are young men?

Terrorism, at its root, is far worse and has been for a long time in other parts of the world. Mostly parts where the western world hasnt tried to exploit in the name of "capitalism".

Its funny Fargo, whats the difference between you and a idealist (not an extremist) from a Muslim country. They are protecting thier right to survive and protect themselves, just as you say you are. You dont want them to live the way they do because you say its corrupt, they dont want you to live the way you do because they think it's right. They are put into the group of terrorist because of something people do in thier name...We are quick to retaliate when 2 soldiers are kidnapped, but are silent while everyday racial injustice happens to innocents around the world because the "free world" no longer see peace and freedom and a worthy cause.

This plague of polarization happening in the world is leading us down a very dark path.
[/quote]

you state that not all terrorists are muslim then go and state that they are and the west caused it. For one, THEY view this as a religious war. Dont believe me? Ask iran. Go ask these bombers who they do it in the name of. We dont go into darfur because they aren't launching suicide bombers to us. We dont go to S. american countries because they dont fly planes into our buildings and kill our citizens. They even say it themselves. Westerners value life, and they value death. You're gonna tell me its our fault? Open your eyes.

Peace be with you my liberal ideological fishy friend. Allah akbar.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

Fargo said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. *"Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim".* I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


I've been saying this for years, and unfortunately the gloves are going to have to come off at some point. All the politically correct talk about how it's only a small extremist minority may be good on the moral plane, but as soon as one of our cities gets decimated, and that extreme minority that comprises millions of people continues to hide in sleeper cells and behind their own Muslim civilians, I guarantee there will be a military approach in this country that rivals Lincoln's during the Civil War. *The Muslim majority should be working to rid their societies of these elements, both here in America and overseas.*
[/quote]

That's an interesting point everyone seems to avoid. Why isn't the vast majority of peace loving Muslims working to separate themselves from these nut bags. If Islam truly is a religion of peace, which I honestly believe it is, then why aren't the sane muslims working harder than we are to eliminate the extremists that are supposadly bastardizing their religion. Did anyone see the size of the crowds that were rallying for Hezbollah? I dont' know if it's just the media, but why don't we see any large outcry against these people from the Muslims who in theory feel the same way about them as we do


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Probably because peace-loving Muslims are scared by these radical elements who would just as soon turn on their own as turn on Americans if they feel that fellow Muslims obstruct whatever their mission may be. I know that I'd be scared.

Also, the arsenal on even twenty of the hard-core terrorists has got to be a better than that of several hundred or even thousands of pacifists who would want change--again, I would be scared. (Just a ratio problem--I don't know how many of each there are...but I'm trying to show that a few bad apples can ruin the bunch's confidence.)

You can call me a wuss or worse, but think about it--I know there are a lot of tough individuals on this board, but how many could honestly find it in them to speak out in such circumstances? We're afraid of inner cities because of what some residents can do and we're becoming afraid of other things because of what a small minority could potentially do to us...we're so risk averse as a species that we have placed serious obstacles in the way of speaking out (as well as the other, more obvious obstacles that are already there).


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## alan (Mar 11, 2004)

anyone standing up for these people wants putting down..


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## StuartDanger (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm not trying to sympathise with terrorists and im definatly not aggreeing with their actions. But if you were brought up on a religion that is a very proud religion where you are instructed to obey allah and do anything to protect his name then i totally understand why these people do this. it is wrong what they are doing.

People in the west find it very hard to understand as religion is becoming less and less practiced and less and less respected, whereas in these muslim countries it is still taught everyday and is practiced my over 95% of the population.
I dont believe in any religion but a mixture of everything, most of my thoughts are from the muslim faith and i have read the ko'ran and it is not a book of hate.

There are extremists in every religion, christianity has its kkk's and nazi's, muslims had their terrorists, etc etc

I'm glad that these terrorists were found and it was stopped before they did somthing bad, but i just can't help looking at the news and i know that they aren't telling the true story....


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm not condoning what the terrorists are doing...I'm just speaking to the mindset of the scared anti-jihadist Muslims who have not yet rid their religion of the terrorists. It's going to be a tough row to hoe, but I pray for their strength and comfort...


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## alan (Mar 11, 2004)

what t.f. is their problem?half these idiots dont even know what they are fighting for.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Stuart, to be fair, I think Naziism was closely allied with the Aryan religion, not Christianity, but it was a thought-provoking and well-thought-out post nonetheless.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

goochild said:


> these people are so stupid!


so are the clueless back here that believe we should bring our troops home and wipe our hands with this sh*t







sad but it might take anouther attack here in the u.s to finally get it through our heads that we're not going to solve the problem untill we go after the heart of these organizations..


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> im not condoning any genocide, glass etc, but i heard something interesting on the radio today. *"Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim".* I was like wow, thats true(doesn't include irish, seperatists etc for obvious reasons)


I've been saying this for years, and unfortunately the gloves are going to have to come off at some point. All the politically correct talk about how it's only a small extremist minority may be good on the moral plane, but as soon as one of our cities gets decimated, and that extreme minority that comprises millions of people continues to hide in sleeper cells and behind their own Muslim civilians, I guarantee there will be a military approach in this country that rivals Lincoln's during the Civil War. The Muslim majority should be working to rid their societies of these elements, both here in America and overseas.
[/quote]

Since when are all terrorists muslim? The western world made muslims into terrorist through corrupt politics, unfair sanctioning, irresponsible propaganda..the extremists just used this to further thier view....notice how most terrorists are young men?

Terrorism, at its root, is far worse and has been for a long time in other parts of the world. Mostly parts where the western world hasnt tried to exploit in the name of "capitalism".

Its funny Fargo, whats the difference between you and a idealist (not an extremist) from a Muslim country. They are protecting thier right to survive and protect themselves, just as you say you are. You dont want them to live the way they do because you say its corrupt, they dont want you to live the way you do because they think it's right. They are put into the group of terrorist because of something people do in thier name...We are quick to retaliate when 2 soldiers are kidnapped, but are silent while everyday racial injustice happens to innocents around the world because the "free world" no longer see peace and freedom and a worthy cause.

This plague of polarization happening in the world is leading us down a very dark path.
[/quote]

You're young, and you will change as the threats become more commonplace and imminent, when your daily security is at risk and it's no longer rational to blame the victim anymore. You're scooting around a bunch of issues that only relate partially to the main problem: untold numbers of Islamofascists attempting to kill Western society and its' way of life(and peace loving hippies are on their list.) I never grouped all Muslims into the fascist column, but the bad element hides out among the populace, just as the German Bund hid out in German areas of America during WWII. And you slightly underestimate the rallying cry for men like Nasrallah in those countries you believe are so moderate.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2006)

alan said:


> what t.f. is their problem?half these idiots dont even know what they are fighting for.


And therein lies the problem. Again, young minds.

Im not saying this is totally the west's fault, but we've exploited this culture at thier roots and given reason for young people to follow the extremists. I like how people call me a terrorist sympathiser...I have no sympathy for those who abuse the power they have to shape all the young minds involved, much like I have no respect for holymen of all religions who try to persuade young minds to believe in what they do rather then develop thier own spirituality.

And who is to say the Muslim community doesnt stand out against these actions? How many Muslims do you know personally who praise these actions? Or are you just saying that because you heard someone say it and it sounded smart? I know a few devout Muslim men through work and they say they cant stand watching the TV, cant stand the rep they get when they see these devils masked as crusaders kill innocents for thier name. But what are they to do? If they spoke out, who the f*ck in todays world would take 5 minutes to listen? Im sure none of you have.

We dont burn down a rainforest to kill a couple weeds, why would we try to "exterminate" a population to erradicate a few lost souls?


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> what t.f. is their problem?half these idiots dont even know what they are fighting for.


And therein lies the problem. Again, young minds.

Im not saying this is totally the west's fault, but we've exploited this culture at thier roots and given reason for young people to follow the extremists. I like how people call me a terrorist sympathiser...I have no sympathy for those who abuse the power they have to shape all the young minds involved, much like I have no respect for holymen of all religions who try to persuade young minds to believe in what they do rather then develop thier own spirituality.

*And who is to say the Muslim community doesnt stand out against these actions? How many Muslims do you know personally who praise these actions?* Or are you just saying that because you heard someone say it and it sounded smart? I know a few devout Muslim men through work and they say they cant stand watching the TV, cant stand the rep they get when they see these devils masked as crusaders kill innocents for thier name. But what are they to do? If they spoke out, who the f*ck in todays world would take 5 minutes to listen? Im sure none of you have.

We dont burn down a rainforest to kill a couple weeds, why would we try to "exterminate" a population to erradicate a few lost souls?
[/quote]

oh i don't know, probably just the entire country that legally voted a president into office whose chief claim was the annihilation of israel *cough* Iran. And maybe the tens of thousands of people that rallied in the streets in support of Hezbollah, because we all know they're a great organization. Didn't they burn American, British, and Israeli flags? It doesn't matter who the conflict is with, the west will always be to blame in the middle east. Furthermore, you know a few? wow congratulations, well I know a black guy so i'm not racist. Oh and who would listen? I think this video made people listen. This woman is one of the bravest most intelligent people I've ever heard speak. This type of thinking is the only thing that will help the situation over there

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_...wmv&ak=null

We don't need to burn down the entire forest, because I agree they're not all bad, but if I was in their situation, I'd be taking advantage of every opportunity I had to separate myself.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2006)

Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?

Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom.

Also, did you know Hezbollah is actually a socially advanced "party"? People dont only follow them because of their false religious extremism, they also follow them because Hezbollah provides hospitals, drinking water, food and other programs for thier communities. Im not saying they dont deserve to be forcefully disbanded, just a reason why some people may support this group.

Oh..and:



> And maybe the tens of thousands of people that rallied


Dude, you are NOT serious! Thats a crazy huge amount man. Almost..like..as many that crowd the streets when a new Star Wars flick comes out. There are a billion Muslims in the world.


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

Jewelz said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


ur an A-Grade moron.








[/quote]

I think you mean "Grade-A"









[/quote]

Irony at its finest















[/quote]

u can say it either way fools


----------



## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm not touchin this thread with a ten foot nacho.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

acestro said:


> I'm not touchin this thread with a *40* foot nacho.


Fixed it for you.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

diddye said:


> what t.f. is their problem?half these idiots dont even know what they are fighting for.


Do you know what you're fighting for? And I'm glad to see you can get into their heads... Please, enlighten me some more on the inner workings of 'the terrorists'.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?
> 
> Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom.
> 
> ...


the muslims in canada might not fill the streets celebrating every time extremism succeeds because this would not be tolerated, if it was tolerated, you would see it first hand, an assumption?? take a good look at the arab networks every time one of these cowards succeeds in killing a civilian.. they take to the streets in saudi, pakistan, iran..."kuwait", syria the entire middle east declares it a holiday and goes break danceing in the streets.. dannyboy if i had it my way we'd all live in the world you wish it to be, but this would be too unrealistic, there is no understanding or sympothising thier cause with out hateing yourself, and although you might have a large population of muslims in your country, so do we but if we over look thier roots which have been bred from birth in thier country to hate freedom for the sake of religion, to indiscriminatly hate the jew the american and all non believers, they will insist on exploiting us for the chance to get at our throats... you concider profileing all arabs musslims to be racist and well because it sounds wrong and couldnt be right, and i would agree if i lived on anouther planet, but it was this very profileing that stopped this latest attack, this is where you have to ask your self a serious question as a responsable adult and an american, which means the answer doesnt include singing kumbaya around a bonfire<<no offence..

are the individual rights of a few more important then the saftey of an entire nation??


----------



## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?
> 
> *Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom*.
> 
> Also, did you know Hezbollah is actually a socially advanced "party"? People dont only follow them because of their false religious extremism, they also follow them because Hezbollah provides hospitals, drinking water, food and other programs for thieities. Im not saying they dont deserve to be forcefully disbanded, just a reason why some people may support this group.


The molestation comparison is absolutely ludicrous. Every religion has its' corrupt element pertaining to felonies and misdemeanors. For years I've spoken out against the Catholic church for shielding molestors, and also against people like Mel Gibson who still subscribe to vatican I; and also against fundamentalists who love fire and brimstone. But qualitatively speaking, such offenders are not attempting to overthrow the West through relentless attacks upon mass numbers of innocent civilians. Perverted priests have everything to do with the celebacy vow, which imo is an outdated and unhealthy custom. But no one is blaming the West as a whole every time a priest molests someone by saying, "our society is so exploitive that it turns priests into perverts." Again, guilt lies with the perpetrator. As far as the KKK and Neo-Nazis go, they tend to sympatize with Jihadists, the connection being available to anyone who surfs the internet.

Muslims are free in the West, so why can't they hold rallies against the bastardized segment of their religion and aid in the apprehension of the violators. If they are scared in America and Europe for their life against a crazy minority, then the problem has already hit systemic proportions.

That same Hezbollah that advances social causes undertook a calculated action against Israel, knowing that the retaliation would kill untold numbers of innocent people. Those same people they supposedly help, they are willing to watch die in order to advance their international support. Some social network.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Mettle said:


> *What are those obvious reasons? I don't see how the IRA attempting to throw off the shackles of UK occupation (as they saw it) is any different than what many Muslim extemists are doing... It's just on a grander scale. So please - let me know what the obvious reasons are.*
> 
> Do you know what you're fighting for? And I'm glad to see you can get into their heads... Please, enlighten me some more on the inner workings of 'the terrorists'.


 The IRA was never attempting to overthrow Western Civilization and institute a form of theocratic law. Their case was against regional oppressors. That is why they were categorized as either nationalists, freedom fighters, or terrorists, but not Irish-fascists. Terrorism in radical Islam is a tool and not an end. The end is a world governed by Allah, a theocratic forom of fascism, hergo Islamofascism. The closest thing in Christianity is the Reconstructionist movement, which obviously has nowhere near the number of supporters in Christianity than does Islamofascism in Islam, evidenced by the lack of Christian riots in AMerica's streets where people would be burning flags of other countries.

And what occupation does America or Europe have over Iran or AL-queda or Hezbollah? I've been against the Iraq war from the start, and AlQueda and Hezbollah have been attacking the west long before this war. I can't believe people are excusing the attempts at mass extermination of innocent people by saying it's the oppressive west's fault. Latin America has been way more oppressed by the US than the Islamic world, yet you don't see Hispanic people getting on planes and attempting to blow themselves up.

ANd we are fighting for the preservation of constitutional governemnt, however imperfect it has been from the start. Islamofascism - not terrorism - is fighting for Islamic world government. The truth is so damn simple.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?
> 
> Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom.
> 
> ...


well yeah..i am serious. the irony is that's just one city so i guess I was being conservative

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14179529/

Either way, you say you know a few muslims that hate the way they're being portrayed, but I can show you that many that would kill you if they had the slightest chance.

This debate has gotten out of hand, because my original point is I truly believe that Islam as as whole is a religion of peace, but according to danny since there are a billion muslims, I'm wondering why the 999 billion that are sick of being portrayed as psychotic terrorist aren't doing something about it.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i think there's a little more than a billion muslims in the world...dont quote me, but i was under the impression that there were....whatever...

NACHO'S!!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2006)

Liquid said:


> Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?
> 
> Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom.
> 
> ...


the muslims in canada might not fill the streets celebrating every time extremism succeeds because this would not be tolerated, if it was tolerated, you would see it first hand, an assumption?? take a good look at the arab networks every time one of these cowards succeeds in killing a civilian.. they take to the streets in saudi, pakistan, iran..."kuwait", syria the entire middle east declares it a holiday and goes break danceing in the streets.. dannyboy if i had it my way we'd all live in the world you wish it to be, but this would be too unrealistic, there is no understanding or sympothising thier cause with out hateing yourself, and although you might have a large population of muslims in your country, so do we but if we over look thier roots which have been bred from birth in thier country to hate freedom for the sake of religion, to indiscriminatly hate the jew the american and all non believers, they will insist on exploiting us for the chance to get at our throats... you concider profileing all arabs musslims to be racist and well because it sounds wrong and couldnt be right, and i would agree if i lived on anouther planet, but it was this very profileing that stopped this latest attack, this is where you have to ask your self a serious question as a responsable adult and an american, which means the answer doesnt include singing kumbaya around a bonfire<<no offence..

are the individual rights of a few more important then the saftey of an entire nation??
[/quote]

Speaking of Kuwait...what is Kuwait :laugh: I know its a country southeast of Iraq, but is it an ally of the West? It was invaded in Desert Storm right? Did it become like a U.N province then or something? Because it seems like all American military operations for the area start there.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

:nod:

nachos.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?
> 
> Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom.
> 
> ...


the muslims in canada might not fill the streets celebrating every time extremism succeeds because this would not be tolerated, if it was tolerated, you would see it first hand, an assumption?? take a good look at the arab networks every time one of these cowards succeeds in killing a civilian.. they take to the streets in saudi, pakistan, iran..."kuwait", syria the entire middle east declares it a holiday and goes break danceing in the streets.. dannyboy if i had it my way we'd all live in the world you wish it to be, but this would be too unrealistic, there is no understanding or sympothising thier cause with out hateing yourself, and although you might have a large population of muslims in your country, so do we but if we over look thier roots which have been bred from birth in thier country to hate freedom for the sake of religion, to indiscriminatly hate the jew the american and all non believers, they will insist on exploiting us for the chance to get at our throats... you concider profileing all arabs musslims to be racist and well because it sounds wrong and couldnt be right, and i would agree if i lived on anouther planet, but it was this very profileing that stopped this latest attack, this is where you have to ask your self a serious question as a responsable adult and an american, which means the answer doesnt include singing kumbaya around a bonfire<<no offence..

are the individual rights of a few more important then the saftey of an entire nation??
[/quote]

Speaking of Kuwait...what is Kuwait :laugh: I know its a country southeast of Iraq, but is it an ally of the West? It was invaded in Desert Storm right? Did it become like a U.N province then or something? Because it seems like all American military operations for the area start there.
[/quote]

it's a somewhat US friendly country that saddam invaded, and we got pissed b/c they give us a sh*t load of oil, so we pretended we gave a damn about the country itself and decided to help lol.

Cold hard thruth....


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Speaking of Kuwait...what is Kuwait :laugh: I know its a country southeast of Iraq, but is it an ally of the West? It was invaded in Desert Storm right? Did it become like a U.N province then or something? Because it seems like all American military operations for the area start there.










and your question is??


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2006)

Liquid said:


> Speaking of Kuwait...what is Kuwait :laugh: I know its a country southeast of Iraq, but is it an ally of the West? It was invaded in Desert Storm right? Did it become like a U.N province then or something? Because it seems like all American military operations for the area start there.










and your question is??
[/quote]

Answered! (Boobah)


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Boobah said:


> Are you a Christian? To steal GG's example, do you spend all day telling people you dont think its right that these boys were molested? Like, all day, everyday, drop everything in your life just to be sure everyone knows?
> 
> Muslims in the west have the privlidge of freedom.
> 
> ...


the muslims in canada might not fill the streets celebrating every time extremism succeeds because this would not be tolerated, if it was tolerated, you would see it first hand, an assumption?? take a good look at the arab networks every time one of these cowards succeeds in killing a civilian.. they take to the streets in saudi, pakistan, iran..."kuwait", syria the entire middle east declares it a holiday and goes break danceing in the streets.. dannyboy if i had it my way we'd all live in the world you wish it to be, but this would be too unrealistic, there is no understanding or sympothising thier cause with out hateing yourself, and although you might have a large population of muslims in your country, so do we but if we over look thier roots which have been bred from birth in thier country to hate freedom for the sake of religion, to indiscriminatly hate the jew the american and all non believers, they will insist on exploiting us for the chance to get at our throats... you concider profileing all arabs musslims to be racist and well because it sounds wrong and couldnt be right, and i would agree if i lived on anouther planet, but it was this very profileing that stopped this latest attack, this is where you have to ask your self a serious question as a responsable adult and an american, which means the answer doesnt include singing kumbaya around a bonfire<<no offence..

are the individual rights of a few more important then the saftey of an entire nation??
[/quote]

Speaking of Kuwait...what is Kuwait :laugh: I know its a country southeast of Iraq, but is it an ally of the West? It was invaded in Desert Storm right? Did it become like a U.N province then or something? Because it seems like all American military operations for the area start there.
[/quote]

it's a somewhat US friendly country that saddam invaded, and we got pissed b/c they give us a sh*t load of oil, so we pretended we gave a damn about the country itself and decided to help lol.

Cold hard thruth....
[/quote]
actually minus the propiganda... it started with accusations from saddam that kuwait was cross drilling across the border into iraq for oil, then saddam got greedy obviously low on funds from the iraq/iran war and his accusations became an invasion with reasoning that kuwait always belonged to iraq and that "kuwaitis were iraqs children" when in reality during iraqs stay they looted millians, pillaged, raped and slaughtered thousands, of men woman and children..with permisian from the saudis we kicked the living sh*t out of the iraqis and sent them packing :laugh: and on there way out they ignited several of kuwaits oil wells..the only and BIGGEST mistake we made was turning our backs on the kurds who ended up getting slaugtered once we left..


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## humpy_3 (Feb 28, 2006)

this is really F_cked up i dont understand what makes these people tick

but it also sucks because i have one friend in vegas getting ready to come home anyday another friends parents came back from vegas and they said they boarded the plane and then made them all get off and searched everybody and everything , a friends parent just flew to california to see her daughter have her first kid and i have a group of friend returning from mexico today and because of tuff ass terrorists it will be an even bigger pain in the ass for them and everybody else

but it is good that they caught them beforehand


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

Dawgz said:


> When was the last time you heard a Catholic Priest tell his followers that if you kill a muslim you will become a hero? Isn't this whole Middle East problem based on Israel and the neighboring Muslims not getting along. Seems to me that this whole thing is based on Religon.


ur an A-Grade moron.








[/quote

People like this want to put them in a room with psycologists and help them. You will be the first one yelling at the government to do something when they attck our country again. Your an Idiot and blind to the world's problems.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

wanna know something funny? Remember everybody against the wiretaps about half ayear ago and how it "violated" our civil rights? I just learned the US gave info to the Brits that led to the arrests b/c we found out info about it through wiretaps by the NSA.


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## QWERTY1830 (Jul 26, 2006)

NUKE THE MOTHER FLUCKERS


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> wanna know something funny? Remember everybody against the wiretaps about half ayear ago and how it "violated" our civil rights? I just learned the US gave info to the Brits that led to the arrests b/c we found out info about it through wiretaps by the NSA.


Actually, everything I've read and heard said that there was an inside agent in a terrorist cell that tipped off the Brits.

You got a (non-biased) source?


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> wanna know something funny? Remember everybody against the wiretaps about half ayear ago and how it "violated" our civil rights? I just learned the US gave info to the Brits that led to the arrests b/c we found out info about it through wiretaps by the NSA.


Actually, everything I've read and heard said that there was an inside agent in a terrorist cell that tipped off the Brits.

You got a (non-biased) source?
[/quote]

Please post a source... Sounds a bit shady...


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> wanna know something funny? Remember everybody against the wiretaps about half ayear ago and how it "violated" our civil rights? I just learned the US gave info to the Brits that led to the arrests b/c we found out info about it through wiretaps by the NSA.


Actually, everything I've read and heard said that there was an inside agent in a terrorist cell that tipped off the Brits.

You got a (non-biased) source?
[/quote]

No that is true, that it was an inside agent who infiltrated the group that led to the arrests, but NSA provided intel. This isn't a one agency/country operation. It spanned from the US, europe, and even pakistan.

is time magazine and washington post good enough?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1225453,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1001654_pf.html

It doesn't literally state wiretaps on those article but i've heard interviews and you can tell when you read them thats what they did.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> wanna know something funny? Remember everybody against the wiretaps about half ayear ago and how it "violated" our civil rights? I just learned the US gave info to the Brits that led to the arrests b/c we found out info about it through wiretaps by the NSA.


Actually, everything I've read and heard said that there was an inside agent in a terrorist cell that tipped off the Brits.

You got a (non-biased) source?
[/quote]

No that is true, that it was an inside agent who infiltrated the group that led to the arrests, but NSA provided intel. This isn't a one agency/country operation. It spanned from the US, europe, and even pakistan.
[/quote]

Right, so is there anywhere I can read about the NSA intel providing the information needed for this ?


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

look up


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

diddye said:


> wanna know something funny? Remember everybody against the wiretaps about half ayear ago and how it "violated" our civil rights? I just learned the US gave info to the Brits that led to the arrests b/c we found out info about it through wiretaps by the NSA.


Let's not misrepresent the opposition to NSA. The hard Left you're correct about IMO; they just love to bitch and moan about anything. My main problem with NSA involved oversight and abuse of the privelege. As long as the other branches of govt. were involved in either amending or temporarily suspending certain rights and certain laws in the name of security, and the program was point specific, I'm okay with it. The problem was when people like the quakers and little old ladies were being surveilled for no reason other than to root out dissent. Also, many cases could easily have supplied warrants, but the Bush team was just too lazy, or else covering something up. I understand that liberties have to be balanced with security, but try to act within the framework of the balance of powers.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

diddye said:


> is time magazine and washington post good enough?
> 
> http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1225453,00.html
> 
> ...


NSA's not even mentioned in these articles


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

do i have to spell everything out? Who else would do the wiretaps? The dept of agriculture? Read between the lines or go watch a report.


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## i am your GOD (Jun 16, 2006)

i think its a bunch of BS to get peoples minds of israel/lebanon so israel can go f*ck them up without the public knowing about it.

on another note.. u get all these guys that support the war and support bush because he is protecting our freedoms. do you think we r still free?!?! u know how many rights/freedoms in the new 'anti-terrorist' america!?!? alot.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

here jewelz...did some hw for you

http://newsbusters.org/node/6921

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/fe...ml?id=110008785

Happy? It says "NSA"


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

i am your GOD said:


> i think its a bunch of BS to get peoples minds of israel/lebanon so israel can go f*ck them up without the public knowing about it.
> 
> on another note.. u get all these guys that support the war and support bush because he is protecting our freedoms. do you think we r still free?!?! u know how many rights/freedoms in the new 'anti-terrorist' america!?!? alot.


yeah its all a figment of our imagination set up by mickey mouse with secret intentions of taking over the world being controlled by probes that have been imbedded in his ass by the bush's who are really aliens from the planet ducktape..


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2006)

This sounds like something straight out of a Bond flick.

Wow, look at Fargo go....slowly we see him lean further and further to the right in every thread.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

I dont think terrorism is either left or right


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> This sounds like something straight out of a Bond flick.
> 
> Wow, look at Fargo go....slowly we see him lean further and further to the right in every thread.


There you go again. It's not about right vs. left. It's about seeing the truth for what it is. No Democracy can stand indefinitely without holding out a temptation to conquerers. When problems of security become systemic, sometimes freedom has to be sacrificed temporarily, like on the airlines. This is just common sense and has nothing to do with right vs. left. I don't necessarily agree with how Bush is doing it, but he's the first president to deal with world wide terrorism as an imminent threat, so who would have thought he'd get it all right?

You have this assumption that supporters of Israel and enemies of radical Jihad somehow occupy the right wing. One has nothing to do with the other, since either extreme - from Stalinism to fascism to rusty knives - is deadly. That's why you see me disagreeing sometimes with Diddye and sometimes agreeing with him, but he doesn't sit there and call me a Lefty, because we know we're all fighting for the same thing in the end, which is the preservation of the two century old experiment with democracy. The debate, meanwhile is healthy, and non-debate, as is the case with fundamentalists, is unhealthy.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> Ok...there has been bad press about Muslims being terrorists....doesnt mean they all are though.


I agree with you whole heartedly.

But I would feel a lot better about that statement, if the Muslims in this country, and other western nations would rise up to publicly condemn these actions..
Their silence on the issue is deafening. People could take their silence as quiet support. If people were doing this in the name of Christianity, I would certainly go out of my way to publically separate myself from the extremists. -But then it would be rather impossible to back up terrorism from a Biblical perspective, so I'm guessing that shouldn't happen anytime soon.

The worst part about this story is that the terrorists in question here were Brittish born, right?

It would also make me a bit more comfy if there wasn't a clear ability to actually support terrorism from a Qu'ranic perspective, but there is. Sadly enough.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2006)

Fargo said:


> This sounds like something straight out of a Bond flick.
> 
> Wow, look at Fargo go....slowly we see him lean further and further to the right in every thread.


There you go again. It's not about right vs. left. It's about seeing the truth for what it is. No Democracy can stand indefinitely without holding out a temptation to conquerers. When problems of security become systemic, sometimes freedom has to be sacrificed temporarily, like on the airlines. This is just common sense and has nothing to do with right vs. left. I don't necessarily agree with how Bush is doing it, but he's the first president to deal with world wide terrorism as an imminent threat, so who would have thought he'd get it all right?

You have this assumption that supporters of Israel and enemies of radical Jihad somehow occupy the right wing. One has nothing to do with the other, since either extreme - from Stalinism to fascism to rusty knives - is deadly. That's why you see me disagreeing sometimes with Diddye and sometimes agreeing with him, but he doesn't sit there and call me a Lefty, because we know we're all fighting for the same thing in the end, which is the preservation of the two century old experiment with democracy. The debate, meanwhile is healthy, and non-debate, as is the case with fundamentalists, is unhealthy.
[/quote]

It starts with your emails and your calls. Whats next? How far down that rabbit hole are you willing to go? And who's to say when to draw the line? At that point, it becomes the governments opinion, which reflects a lot of the ideals of a dictatorship.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> This sounds like something straight out of a Bond flick.
> 
> Wow, look at Fargo go....slowly we see him lean further and further to the right in every thread.


There you go again. It's not about right vs. left. It's about seeing the truth for what it is. No Democracy can stand indefinitely without holding out a temptation to conquerers. When problems of security become systemic, sometimes freedom has to be sacrificed temporarily, like on the airlines. This is just common sense and has nothing to do with right vs. left. I don't necessarily agree with how Bush is doing it, but he's the first president to deal with world wide terrorism as an imminent threat, so who would have thought he'd get it all right?

[/quote]

It starts with your emails and your calls. Whats next? How far down that rabbit hole are you willing to go? And who's to say when to draw the line? At that point, it becomes the governments opinion, which reflects a lot of the ideals of a dictatorship.
[/quote]

I agree with you to a point, but you have to follow what I said earlier. A representative, constitutional govt. with checks and balances, such as America, does not exist in a vaccuum. There are constantly forces seeking to undermine it, not just from within, but from without. Right now our country has enemies, and some of them live here right now, enjoying the freedoms we afford while plotting to destroy us. When grave threats become systemic, the democracy for its' own survival has to contract somewhat in order to weed out the enemy. Without secret surveillance of some sort, neither Britain or Canada would have been able to catch the subhumans plotting to kill innocent people. I said all along that spying must be done as much as possible within the framework of checks and balances.

I do agree with you that in the case of the Bush admin. and his blowhard attorney general that they have not handled it well at all. They are often using the terrorist threat as a means of increasing their own absolute power. So you're correct on that one. But that doesn't mean we don't need surveillance when national security is at risk. Otherswise both our countries go to sh*t and thousands if not millions die. It might interest those on the Left who so condemn the Bush admin. for NSA spying that F.D. Roosevelt, probably the most celebrated Democrat ever, conducted far more secret surveillance for his time than did Bush. Did Roosevelt go to far?


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