# Geryi Spawned!!



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

I do not have a whole lot of information on this but I can say that a very reputable source has given me information that Serrasalmus geryi has been spawned successfully and about a dozen babies have survived to the free-swimming stage and slightly beyond. As information becomes available I will post more. Perhaps I can get pictures, too but I am making NO PROMISES.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

WOW , I want some


----------



## HOLLYWOOD (Feb 6, 2003)

Thats encouraging news.

Im curious to see if the adults were wild caught or raised as juvinile. Another scenario is if these adults were in breeding condition in the wild prior to they're capture. Info Info Info..... substrate, water conditions.....etc... inquiring minds want to know. Thanks for the news Brian.


----------



## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Wow...If you can Brian find out the size tank they were in and size of Geryi..







And Craig, no i am not going to Singapore to get them, though my job almost relocated there..


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Update:

90% water changes daily. No information on size of adults although I know that they were collected in the wild. That makes the juveniles F-1 generation.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Outstanding news.









Plus it gives hope to PFURY members.


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Just to be certain that everyone gets to hear it, I posted it up on Piranha Cove, too.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

very cool, you should definitely do an article on this.


----------



## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

That is very fascinating news. It brings me great joy to know that fish has been bred in captivity. They are a very rare piranha to the hobby, and not many truly make it into the country. When I say not many I'm comparing to more typical species such as rhoms. I wish I could personally congratulate the individual. It is a remarkable advancement in the breeding aspect of the hobby.

PS. I wonder if Azuma had anything to do with this. That man is the best!!!!


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Brian: When you get a bit more confirmation and photos (if available), I'll update the page on S. geryi. BTW, in the grape vine there is another piranha species that is about to be bred. Eggs are being found, but nothing developed yet. Hopefully, more on that later, just a bit of a teaser for now.


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Frank,

No problem. You will be the first to have them Sir.

I know of a few other piranhas that are being worked with but none with actual eggs so I cannot wait to hear what you have when it's time. I think Eigenmanni is one of them along with manueli if I am not mistaken.

Anyway, as information becomes available I will pass it along to the respective party.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Brian: When you get a bit more confirmation and photos (if available), I'll update the page on S. geryi. BTW, in the grape vine there is another piranha species that is about to be bred. Eggs are being found, but nothing developed yet. Hopefully, more on that later, just a bit of a teaser for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gee great , thanks for the secrecy ..............Im already up on that info anyways Frank


----------



## serrasalmus_collector (Mar 9, 2003)

hastatus said:


> Brian: When you get a bit more confirmation and photos (if available), I'll update the page on S. geryi. BTW, in the grape vine there is another piranha species that is about to be bred. Eggs are being found, but nothing developed yet. Hopefully, more on that later, just a bit of a teaser for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you are gonna tease, can you give the genus??? Inquireing minds want more of the tease :nod:


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

I know of three genera that are being worked on regarding "pirambeba/piranha."


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Its funny to me Brian, they hate scientists but they love to hear what they have to say.









When I know the details, you will ALL know the details. BTW Brian, S. manueli I was not aware of but S. eigenmanni, yes.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> MR HARLEY Posted Today, 10:40 AM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Apr 21 2005, 10:34 AM)
> Brian: When you get a bit more confirmation and photos (if available), I'll update the page on S. geryi. BTW, in the grape vine there is another piranha species that is about to be bred. Eggs are being found, but nothing developed yet. Hopefully, more on that later, just a bit of a teaser for now.
> 
> Gee great , thanks for the secrecy ..............Im already up on that info anyways Frank


Very likely not the species you are thinking of.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Who is "they" and Why are you always takeing shots at people from the other end of the field, (Trust Its gettting tiresome) if you have a prob with someone why not just say who the person you have a problem with and drop it, instead of typing dialect like this ?


> Its funny to me Brian, they hate scientists but they love to hear what they have to say.





> Very likely not the species you are thinking of.


How would you know , Are you in My brain ?


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

OK, guys, this thread is going too good to de-rail. Please stop.

Frank, yes, I figured that you have heard about the Eigenmanni project going on. Regarding manueli, yes, apparently they get along nicely when kept in a large pool


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Amazing news Brian! I guess there is hope for everyone aspiring to breed them!


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> MR HARLEY Posted Today, 10:52 AM
> Who is "they" and Why are you always takeing shots at people from the other end of the field, (Trust Its gettting tiresome) if you have a prob with someone why not just say who the person you have a problem with and drop it, instead of typing dialect like this ?


Lighten up Harley. If you must know, go visit the Staff Announcements. It was meant as a "joke" you know, as in FUNNY.









Brian, I'm going to see if I can dig up the S. eigenmanni photos for you to look at. The youngsters are unverified, but its interesting nonetheless.


----------



## Killduv (Jun 1, 2004)

That is great news!!!!
Trying with the manny's as well. Great news- miracles do happen.


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Thanks Frank. Please send them to my yahoo account for me to have a look at them.

Best fishes,


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> B. Scott Posted Today, 11:07 AM
> Thanks Frank. Please send them to my yahoo account for me to have a look at them.
> 
> Best fishes,


Will do. I need to do some digging in my archives to find them. So expect them later tonight or tomorrow if not sooner.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

what do you expect to happen to this industry, based on history, being that these fish are breeding. Like, what happens when all of a sudden 3-4 species, that have previously not been bred in captivity all of a sudden are widely available? I'm wondering mostly about fish imports, prices, availability of these F1 fish? I'm sure you guys can elaborate a little on this. I understand that the people who have bred the fish have techniques that possibly could be replicated by others, and see a sudden boom in fish stores, online sites etc.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

traumatic said:


> what do you expect to happen to this industry, based on history, being that these fish are breeding. Like, what happens when all of a sudden 3-4 species, that have previously not been bred in captivity all of a sudden are widely available? I'm wondering mostly about fish imports, prices, availability of these F1 fish? I'm sure you guys can elaborate a little on this. I understand that the people who have bred the fish have techniques that possibly could be replicated by others, and *see a sudden boom in fish stores, online sites etc.*
> [snapback]991627[/snapback]​


For me this is one of my biggest fears in breeding these fish and other rarer species. We already see how disposable nattereri have become....I would hate to see that with any other species of piranha. Availability is one thing...market flooding and price gouging is another.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

There hasn't been a problem with P. nattereri and S. maculatus, people still buy them. I don't expect to see a problem with S. geryi, at least not for the next 10 or so years as far is pricing goes.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

right, I feel bad saying this but its almost like som wouldn't want *everyone* to have them available to them. Arent' there feelings abound that you dont' want others to have them because YOU and a small group of others have something rare, well now it's not rare anymore and who cares right? I do, I'm sure others do. I can see why the breeders dont' want to make things as public as the nightly news. On the other hand, breakthroughs in breeding these species are what makes keeping them worthwhile. It's a feelgood notion to all of us that it has happened. I'm sure, $$ are now floating through peoples heads.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

That is not what I am saying, but I can see how it could be interpreted. My concern is how nattereri are viewed in the hobby and treated in the lfs's. Make a poll about the least desirible piranha and I would bet that 90% of the people would say reds....and I do not think that is because they are a crappy fish...it is because they are so available. Behavior wise I dont see much difference between any of the pygos...but there is a clear distinction when talking about them. I also hate to see 50 baby natts in a 10 gallon in the lfs. They are always missing eyes, fins, and even chuncks out of the body. It is a sad sight to see. And then there is the horible conditions these baby natts get tossed into because of the mass selling in the lfs to people that know nothing about the fish. At least the way it is now, you know that when a person buys almost any piranha besides a nattereri, they have done a little research on them simply because of the cost.
I can see how this could be viewed as trying to be the only one that has these fish...or whatever...but that is really not what I am saying.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> traumatic Posted Today, 01:23 PM
> right, I feel bad saying this but its almost like som wouldn't want everyone to have them available to them. Arent' there feelings abound that you dont' want others to have them because YOU and a small group of others have something rare, well now it's not rare anymore and who cares right? I do, I'm sure others do. I can see why the breeders dont' want to make things as public as the nightly news. On the other hand, breakthroughs in breeding these species are what makes keeping them worthwhile. It's a feelgood notion to all of us that it has happened. I'm sure, $$ are now floating through peoples heads.


You make a valid point, but we know nothing of this person yet on what he/she plans to do with the S. geryi. The most important thing is that it is possible. S. geryi is abundant in the range it is in, but considered becoming rare because of the human situation there. I've mentioned this for a few years now. Things are not getting better there because only recently have the powers-that-be taken notice how poorly their damming operations are and how poorly they are set up. This has led to widespread devastation to S. geryi and other species habitat. So if a hobbyist (pro or semi-pro) is able to do this, it opens up a range of possibilities of saving the species HERE in U.S. and elsewhere. Keep in mind that piranhas as a group are considered trash fish and not worth saving. That's the mentality that has to change THERE.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

what can we (hobbyists) do to help make this a 100% positive thing for the future? Is it kept secret so things dont' change as much or will we see the boom effect? Do we not call serra's piranha anymore but pirambeba as a mask to keep dealers from exploiting them? Am I off base at all?


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

Just a quick note. This guy is a hobbyist who does not speak a word of English. He lives in a small town in Singapore and buys his fishes from a LFS. I am not concerned about availablity or price drop or even the value of the fish going down at all as he has no plans to continue their spawning and even if he did, he has no means by which to sell them.

Cool?


----------



## Pbass (Feb 23, 2005)

> Keep in mind that piranhas as a group are considered trash fish and not worth saving. That's the mentality that has to change THERE.


Thats so right, you won't belive how misunderstood and hated piranha as a whole are in the UK.
I know LFS's that won't even get red bellies in, even tho people ask for them, and others that cram them in small tanks and then blame the fish when they mutilate each other.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> traumatic Posted Today, 01:49 PM
> what can we (hobbyists) do to help make this a 100% positive thing for the future? Is it kept secret so things dont' change as much or will we see the boom effect? Do we not call serra's piranha anymore but pirambeba as a mask to keep dealers from exploiting them? Am I off base at all?


You are understandably off base. Legally Serrasalmus, Pristobrycon, Pygopristis ARE PIRAMBEBA. Genus Pygocentrus are Piranha and/or Caribe (Venezuela P. cariba).

keeping it secret has its plus or minuses. On the plus side it gives the person control of what he is doing. On the minus side, just because that person did it, doesn't necessarily mean you can duplicate or the repeat the same process. These are living creatures and the best we can do is take the basics of it and apply it to the conditioned fishes.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

ok, I'm getting the point. After reading the first few posts I got to thinking too much. But, to a certain extent some issues should be addressed to protect the fish, not only pertaining to piranha, but other fish as well.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I also dont think I am explaining my concerns very well. I do not want to see any of these fish sold in mass in a lfs....not just geryi. My feeling is that these fish are not ment to be housed in small tanks in the lfs waiting to be sold, mainly because of the damage they do to eachother....just looking at the condition of many of the nattereri tanks I see in the stores. I also dont like the thought of people putting 10 1" rhoms in a 55 gallon because they got them for $4.00 a piece in a lfs....the thought makes me cringe. Nattereri are one of the most mistreated fish in captivity, I would not want that to happen to the other species...especially when we are talking about a serrasalmus species.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Grosse Gurke Posted Today, 02:00 PM
> I also dont think I am explaining my concerns very well. I do not want to see any of these fish sold in mass in a lfs....not just geryi. My feeling is that these fish are not ment to be housed in small tanks in the lfs waiting to be sold, mainly because of the damage they do to eachother....just looking at the condition of many of the nattereri tanks I see in the stores. I also dont like the thought of people putting 10 1" rhoms in a 55 gallon because they got them for $4.00 a piece in a lfs....the thought makes me cringe. Nattereri are one of the most mistreated fish in captivity, I would not want that to happen to the other species...especially when we are talking about a serrasalmus species.


Let's look at his argument. P. nattereri has been available (in my recollection) since the early 60's having seen the first juveniles being imported. At least, I thought they were being imported. I found out later that a fellow in Sherman Oaks, California was breeding them in mass and selling them to stores. Prior to that, the fish was largely unheard of. Later as the years rolled by the became more readily available. The other species emerging about the same time was Pygopristid denticulata (then called S. brandtii by mistake). So you had 2 main species being sold. S. sanchezi was regarded as a P. nattereri along with P. cariba, then too. S. niger (= S. rhombeus) began taking hold during this time too and became a hot item until the 1990's. Ternetzi made its appearance in the late 70's early 80's but was not distinguished by hobbyists from the common red. This didn't happen until the early 90's. Since then we have had many imports of P. piraya, brandii, S. geryi.

I seriously don't think 1 recorded breeding or even subsequent breeding is going to flood the market anytime in the future. Its all about supply and demand. Pet stores also are not going to change how they care for the fish if they are bad to begin with anyway.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Arrrrrrrrrrggggh this new keyboard is driving me nuts......excuse the typos. Not used to how the keys are fixed on here yet. Bought the board yesterday.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I never said my fears were grounded in reality Frank :rasp: ....just that this is my main fear with hobbyists breeding any of these fish. And I agree that this isnt likely to impact the near future....but it sounds like nattereri started on this same path.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Then Jeff, take some paxil and a swing of some good Brandy.........AND CHILL!


----------



## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Cool news. Interesting how successful southeast Asian breeders are.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> acestro Posted Today, 02:28 PM
> Cool news. Interesting how successful southeast Asian breeders are.


Must be the drip system so commonly used not to mention attention to detail.


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > acestro Posted Today, 02:28 PM
> > Cool news. Interesting how successful southeast Asian breeders are.
> 
> 
> ...


I need a Crash Course On makeing a Drip system ..


----------



## 33truballa33 (Oct 18, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> hastatus said:
> 
> 
> > > acestro Posted Today, 02:28 PM
> ...


care to elaboarate?


----------



## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

33truballa33 said:


> MR HARLEY said:
> 
> 
> > hastatus said:
> ...


Yea I need directions On how to make one ...(DIY)


----------



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Cool news, hopefully we will get to see pictures or info on this.


----------



## RBPIRANHA 1 (Nov 17, 2004)

congrats


----------



## nubsmoke (Feb 4, 2004)

Guys the drip system was covered many times, usually with regards to growing large captive rhoms.


----------



## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

MR HARLEY said:


> 33truballa33 said:
> 
> 
> > MR HARLEY said:
> ...










there was a thread on how to make it
i know sir nathan was making them

and thats great news od geryi spawning


----------



## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Wow that is some awesome news!


----------



## phensway (Apr 7, 2003)

Did you say "DAILY 90% water changes????" are you serious, how stressful would that be..........


----------



## B. Scott (Apr 24, 2003)

phensway said:


> Did you say "DAILY 90% water changes????" are you serious, how stressful would that be..........
> [snapback]997782[/snapback]​


At first I was told 90% water changes twice a week, then I was told once a day. I dunno. We need to have a member here breed them and report more clearly.

Thanks!


----------



## phensway (Apr 7, 2003)

first off, who has enough time and motivation to do 90 percent water changes everyday!!!! i struggle on doing it once a week.









second, wouldnt that create unstable water conditions?? would your water even being present long enough to get established??? just seems like a lot of work, im not doubting you, but wow


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> phensway Posted Yesterday, 01:15 PM
> first off, who has enough time and motivation to do 90 percent water changes everyday!!!! i struggle on doing it once a week.
> 
> *second, wouldnt that create unstable water conditions?? would your water even being present long enough to get established??? just seems like a lot of work, im not doubting you, but wow *


The water in that region is nearly comparable to Amazonian water including temperature. One of the reasons why they have a high success rate in breeding. Largely depends on how he is running his pond to include replacing the water. If it is an active pond (meaning the water comes in from an ouside source, ie; unground river), then the water is automatically changed.

This is not enough particulars in Brian's post to assume anything.


----------



## moeplz (Feb 21, 2005)

However it effects buying them or anything, its just cool that someone finally did it!


----------

