# Decorating, Think my rbps are stressed??



## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

alright, kinda a stupid question. my buddies and I needed to decorate my tank. and i didnt have much, so i threw a fake plant right in the middle and... dont hate me.
put beer 3 beer bottles in each side for them to have some hiding spots. they seem to like the hiding spots but would this freak them out a bit not knowing what it is?

and i filled them with rocks but sometimes they still knock them over and they freak out when im putting them back up. so im thinking about just scrapping them and getting some more plants or some rocks or soemthing.

is it better to go live plants and driftwood and stuff or can u throw in like fake plants or some skulls from the petstore or something?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

shocker45 said:


> they seem to like the hiding spots but would this freak them out a bit not knowing what it is?[snapback]1088349[/snapback]​


Fish don't see/know the difference between beer bottles and rocks or drift wood: what they see is an object they can use as a hiding place.

As far as fake vs. real decor: real decor, besides looking much better (although that's personal), also contributes to a healthy tank environment. Live plants use up CO2 and release oxygen, also absorb nitrAtes and other trace elements, and can outcompete algae for nutrients (reducing the risk of an algae bloom). Drift wood leaks nutrients and tanins into the water, enriching the tank water.
With fake decor all this doesn't hapen - doesn't mean your fish will be negatively affected by it, but natural decor definitely affects fish in a positive way.

So all in all I would advice in favor of natural decor - it's not necessary, but it looks much better (fake stuff often looks tacky, imo.), and it contributes positively to your tank ecosystem.


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

Hi there shocker, I am new to this stuff for about two months and had the same problems.

I would go all out in an amozon look, i.e driftwood, some real reed plants, ans some real floating plants. Remember though that if you have a serface filter not to get a drifting float plant as it may get churned up!

Also add sand/gravel to your tank to finish the effect off! *REMEMBER*! Do NOT add any skulls to you tank with piranhas in as it looks a tab bit cheesey!

I hope that helps.

Any questions on new help that we could descus together here is my e male: [email protected]

Sparkles









Note: Would like to see some of you piranhas in photos!


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## zygapophysis (Jul 16, 2004)

Diming the lights has always reduced stress on my fish.


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## zygapophysis (Jul 16, 2004)

Oh yeah, make sure the labels and glue are all taken off the bottles also.


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## blindside (Mar 25, 2005)

beer bottles....get some pics up mate i think that could look good if done properly!

ian


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Mr Sparkles said:


> Also add sand/gravel to your tank to finish the effect off! *REMEMBER*! Do NOT add any skulls to you tank with piranhas in as it looks a tab bit cheesey!
> [snapback]1088446[/snapback]​


Maybe he would like the way they look.....


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

LOL beer bottles in the tank! You certainly get points for originality! Everyone does the Amazon look and natural decors. So ordinary!








You should try and run with the beer bottle idea... maybe have a post-apocalyptic/ junkyard theme tank. Get creative and add some car tires, headless Barbie doll, maybe a half-broken cookie jar, etc. If done right, it could be pretty entertaining... Haha!

The p's won't care what is in the tank so long as the items are aquarium and fish safe. Just have fun with the aquascaping since you will be the one looking at it more than anyone else!


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

Okay, i took the beer bottles out. they kept knocking them over, my tank is too small for them. so once i get a bigger tank i will try again.

i just added two smaller rocks in each side, they seem to swim more now and in my opinion seem happier. swim laps and stuff like that. more room for them to move fast without worrying about running into something.

ill post some pics. the pic with the bottles is before. then without is after. tell me what u think about it without. i kinda like the plane looking tank. once i get my 90 gallon i can play around a bit more..

but for now tell me if its okay for them.
View attachment 67490

View attachment 67493


Its only a 30 gallon tank and my p's are just under and just over 7" long. this is my first setup so im just leaning, i can;t wait to get a big tank. i have plans to mount it in the wall in my basement.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Dam, that tanks way too small for those guys....

But the beer bottles make the good doc chuckle..


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

yea i know its too small. thats why i pulled them out. is it okay with like the minor hiding spots behind these little rocks. or should i give them a little more?


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

i would take everything out except the gravel and a powerhead. 30gal is way small for 3 7" rbp's. they need all the swimming space they can get in there. get that 90 gallon that you want soon!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

gamgenius said:


> i would take everything out except the gravel and a powerhead. 30gal is way small for 3 7" rbp's. they need all the swimming space they can get in there. get that 90 gallon that you want soon!
> [snapback]1090243[/snapback]​


I agree. Make sure you do water changes like crazy!! You don't want their growth stunted from being in such a small tank. If you stunted their growth, they wouldn't grow anymore when you switched them to the 90 gallon tank and that wouldn't be very fun, so be sure to do a LOT of water changes, but all 25% though, otherwise they could get quite stressed. They are nice looking red bellies though, and I really hope that you can get the 90 gallon soon. Remember that when you do get it, still figure it will take a month for it to cycle, so try and get it as soon as you can, and take pictures when you do.








~Taylor~

BTW, Welcome to the FURY!!


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

okay, i was at the fish store today. i found a nice 55 gallon long tank. its 4 feet wide, 18" deep and 12" wide.

i talked the guy down to $100 cdn. so im thinking about getting that along with 5 new p's. he told me that the black belly's tend to be more aggressive. which one is the most aggressive? red yellow or black?

and would 5 be okay in that tank? 48" wide?

he said he had 5 in his for 4 years and they never had a problem he just kept it kinda bare.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

shocker45 said:


> okay, i was at the fish store today. i found a nice 55 gallon long tank. its 4 feet wide, 18" deep and 12" wide.
> 
> i talked the guy down to $100 cdn. so im thinking about getting that along with 5 new p's. he told me that the black belly's tend to be more aggressive. which one is the most aggressive? red yellow or black?
> 
> ...


A black belly piranha? Perhaps you are talking about the cariba, but it doesn't have a black belly, it has a black humeral spot next to the gill plate. If you are talking about cariba, yes they are much more agressive when compared to red bellies. Yellow bellied piranhas are a sub species of Pygocentrus nattereri (red bellies) so they have the same personality. They are called ternetzis (Pygocentrus nattereri ternetzi) by the way.

Red bellies, ternetzis and cariba will need 20 gallons per fish when full grown, so you can only keep 3 in a 55 gallon tank for life.

I wouldn't get 5 new piranha for that tank. You should really put your original 2 in the 55 gallon tank. They are in real need of a tank, and you don't want them killing each other, or constantly picking on each other so their fins are tattered and they have many ugly scars.

Let us know if you purchse the tank, and if you do, take some pictures of it whether its decorated or not. 
~Taylor~


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

no thats not in, its not a cariba. i was looking at them today, they actually have a black belly, just like the reds and the yellow. but black. and he was saying there more aggressive than the reds.

what is the most aggressive fish in the piranha family that you can keep in a tank?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

shocker45 said:


> no thats not in, its not a cariba. i was looking at them today, they actually have a black belly, just like the reds and the yellow. but black. and he was saying there more aggressive than the reds.
> 
> what is the most aggressive fish in the piranha family that you can keep in a tank?
> [snapback]1090944[/snapback]​


Can you get any pictures? Are you sure it isn't called just the "black piranha" also known as Serrasalmus rhombeus or rhom? They don't have a black belly, their whole body is black, depending on how old they are of course.

I'm not sure how much you know about piranha, but there are 2 seperate genus'. There is the Pygocentrus genus, which includes Pygocentrus nattereri (red belly), Pygocentrus cariba, and Pygocentrus piraya. Pygos are the shoalers. However there are many many more members in the Serrasalmus genus than in the Pygocentrus genus. Look in P-Fury's information center for more information on each of those. Unlike Pygos, Serras need to be kepy solitary, meaning that they cannot have any other fish in the tank, not even another Serra, because they will kill it. They are not shoalers.

In other words, if the fish you are trying to explain to us is a rhom, he will need the tank all to himself. I forgot to mention that Serras also grow very slowly. There is so much to learn, just cruise around this site in all of the forums, and most importantly, the information center.

Well, good luck with the purchase of your new tank!
~Taylor~


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

so a rhom is a good thing to buy because tis just savage or what?

i kinda wanetd a couple of them,

i just want something to show off to people and watch myself,. i love these guys. so i want more.

i want a p that will attack live bait when i put it in the odd time. and just tare everything else apart.

so what should i buy?


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

shocker45 said:


> so a rhom is a good thing to buy because tis just savage or what?
> 
> i kinda wanetd a couple of them,
> 
> ...


Well to answer that, you will have to tell us if you want a shoal or a single piranha. I am a Pygo fan myself. There is nothing better than watching a shoal grow up together and interact with each other. I'd much rather do a group than have a single fish with a tank all to itself. That is just my opinion. You will see around here that each genus (Pygos and Serras) are just about equally as popular. Rhoms are the most popular of the Serras IMO. 
~Taylor~


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## piranhaqueen (Nov 18, 2004)

species information link

check this information section out.... it may answer some of your questions


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

that helps a lot, but it doesn;t really tell me which of them are the more aggressive ones. i dont think i want a rhom either. sounds like it might be kind of boring no offense if you like em. i like when fish are in groups.

so which of the pygo's is the one to get for me?


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

shocker45 said:


> that helps a lot, but it doesn;t really tell me which of them are the more aggressive ones. i dont think i want a rhom either. sounds like it might be kind of boring no offense if you like em. i like when fish are in groups.
> 
> so which of the pygo's is the one to get for me?
> [snapback]1091637[/snapback]​


You are gonna have to go on looks, and what fish you like the best, because no one can tell you what is going to be more aggressive. Fish all have their different personalities like people.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> shocker45 said:
> 
> 
> > that helps a lot, but it doesn;t really tell me which of them are the more aggressive ones. i dont think i want a rhom either. sounds like it might be kind of boring no offense if you like em. i like when fish are in groups.
> ...


Exactly, but I am confident enough to say that red bellies are MUCH more skittish then the caribas and piraya, and piraya are really expensive. If I were you, I would get the cariba! They are known as being real agressive. Yes, they all have their own personalities, but based on my observations, caribas are pretty agressive.








~Taylor~


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

so say i got 3 caribas and put them in the 55 long it would be okay? they would get along and stuff? what about 4? i really want to get 4.

and caribas are the ones with the black dot beside the gills.

i still have not seen those black belly ones anywhere in those species. maybe this guy got a wierd breed. im going to go down there with my digi cam and take pics on monday. post em here and you guys tell me what they are. they look identical to the red belly, but they are black belly. and the guy said theyre really aggressive.

is a cariba still considered a Piranha? like its in the same family and everything as the reds right?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

A 55g is only enough for 3 or 4 Cariba temporarily: wheter you get 3 or 4, eventually they will outgrow it and require a more spaceous tank.

Cariba are one of the three species of True Piranha (the others are Reds and Piraya). Serrasalmus, although piranha's in their own right, are not True Piranha's: they are referred to as Pirambeba's.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

only temp? its 48"x18"x12" thats a pretty big tank, it could forsure take 3.

the guy at the fish store kept 5 red bellies in the same tank for 4 years. i know reds arn't as aggressive now thats why i figured i could forsure have 3 or 4.

could i or not?


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## "qickshot" (Apr 19, 2005)

well the thing is your 55 gal tank is only 12 inches wide and when your fish get big they are goin to have trouble moving around get 4 or 5 and when they get like 6 or 7 inches upgrade to that 90 you were talkin about lol


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

okay, i went down to the fish store today. i had no idea that the cariba's are so much money. i dont want to spend that much. so he cut me a deal. im getting a 70 gallon tank and 5 red bellies for $230 cdn. which is pretty good in my books. there just babies tho. not even a month old. i want to raise them on my own though. start fresh.

what do you guys think? sound good?

5 reds in a 70 gallon?


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## Susp3nc3 (Jan 27, 2005)

well like what everyone else was saying, they will be fine for like 6 months, but my reds grew to about 6 inches in 6 months. And that means you will want a larger tank than a 70 gallon for 5 reds. The rule is 20 gallons per fish and you dont really want to stray from that unless your going to upgrade when the fish grow. So for 5 fish you want a 100 gallon tank. The reason for this is because the tank cannot handle the bio load...in more simple terms you tank will be pretty damn dirty and hard to care for. Your ammonia will get high most likely since your new to fish keeping it seems, and your fish could die. I would put 3 in the 70 to have a nice healthy tank. Four would be ok for a while i suppose. Are you sure the tank isn't 75.. that is more common.


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## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

I think you can do 5 rpbs in a 70 gallon tank. When they get larger, you will need to have less decour in the tank to maximize swimming space. You will also need good filtration to handle the bio load. They would not be good in there for life, but it would be fine for several years.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

im getting the largest hydro sponge filter and im going to run 2 sponges on it. it will provide enough filtration to handle a 150 gallon tank. and im running it on a 70.

so it will be sufficiant. and i can always put in other things to lower ammonia levels when i do my water changes. and i will just not have many plants or pieces of drift wood. i like the plain looking tanks anyways. and they will have more room.

im building the stand tommorow, and putting my filter in my current tank with my 2 p's to get the bacteria on the filter. then when i do my water changes im going to keep the water to put in my new tank. then i will still drop in probabaly 80 feeder's for 2 weeks just to make it perfect for when i bring my baby p's home.


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## shocker45 (Jun 23, 2005)

will this work? be okay for setting up the new tank?


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