# do you really have to change water at 20ppm for good health



## tiran (Apr 27, 2007)

how fast does your nitrates get up to 20ppm i have to do 40% to 60% water changes every two to three days feeding every other day. 125g 3 caribe at 7'' to 8'' tern 8.5'' piraya 9''. its getting crazey does it really have to be at 20ppm to keep them from being stressed and growing and is 40 to 60% water changes to much, i never have spikes in my water from it i guess its okay. could i get some good feed back on this.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Do you have a test kit? another important thing is making sure your water you are adding matches PH and temp mainly... also adding a chlorine remover is necessary if you are on city water.... but a test kit would help you keep and eye on nitrates, nitrites, PH and ammonia... maybe even allowing you to change 50% weekly, instead of so much change frequently... and 20 ppm is a max really, i aim for 10 in fresh, and 0 or undetectable in my salt tanks... maybe you need to beef up filtration?


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

I didn't get a chance to field test denitrate by SeaChem but if it works as well as they claim you can maintain a steady concentration of nitrates at less than 5 ppm and you can do water changes once a week to eliminate the build up of organics that cause off colors or odors if not the simple fact that an inch or two of water would have evaporated out not to mention the build up of sludge in the gravel.


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## tiran (Apr 27, 2007)

Skunkbudfour20 said:


> Do you have a test kit? another important thing is making sure your water you are adding matches PH and temp mainly... also adding a chlorine remover is necessary if you are on city water.... but a test kit would help you keep and eye on nitrates, nitrites, PH and ammonia... maybe even allowing you to change 50% weekly, instead of so much change frequently... and 20 ppm is a max really, i aim for 10 in fresh, and 0 or undetectable in my salt tanks... maybe you need to beef up filtration?


my ph is fine it matches my tap water and i use prime for all my water changes and what does filtration have to do with nitrate build up i could understand if the filtration i had wasnt enough for my fish and bioload and i was always reading ammonia but thats not the case i have a 125g im running 2 fx5's with biological filled to the top in both of them and im also running a fluval 405 with nothing but sponges for mechanical all together a total of 1,554 gph on a 125g with 5 pygos so i dont think filtration is a problem and water perams are always good its just nitrates build up fast, and i only feed what they can eat and take out whats left over after maybe 30 minutes. is water changes like this normal for some ,would a bigger tank help i know plants would but all they do is get spooked and knock them every where


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## smithgrind_who (Mar 26, 2004)

tiran said:


> how fast does your nitrates get up to 20ppm i have to do 40% to 60% water changes every two to three days feeding every other day. 125g 3 caribe at 7'' to 8'' tern 8.5'' piraya 9''. its getting crazey does it really have to be at 20ppm to keep them from being stressed and growing and is 40 to 60% water changes to much, i never have spikes in my water from it i guess its okay. could i get some good feed back on this.


Have you tested your source water for nitrates? I remember reading some other members have high readings of nitrates in their tap water before adding it to the aquarium. Not sure if you have this problem, I am just curious to know if your source water's nitrates levels.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Canister filters (any filter really) can become nitrate factories if not properly maintained due to the buildup of trapped decaying matter...other than water changes, plants are the only practical way to remove nitrates. Try some java fern or java moss in there.


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## tiran (Apr 27, 2007)

BioTeAcH said:


> Canister filters (any filter really) can become nitrate factories if not properly maintained due to the buildup of trapped decaying matter...other than water changes, plants are the only practical way to remove nitrates. Try some java fern or java moss in there.


whats the proper way of cleaning out a filter, when one of my fx5's are dirty i take all the sponges out give them a good cleaning in old tank water then i take all my bio rocks from the filter dump them in another bucket of old tank water slush them around with my hand getting any crap off them put it all back together and run it agin then about 2 to 3 weeks later do the same to the other one am i doing somthing wrong


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

tiran said:


> Canister filters (any filter really) can become nitrate factories if not properly maintained due to the buildup of trapped decaying matter...other than water changes, plants are the only practical way to remove nitrates. Try some java fern or java moss in there.


whats the proper way of cleaning out a filter, when one of my fx5's are dirty i take all the sponges out give them a good cleaning in old tank water then i take all my bio rocks from the filter dump them in another bucket of old tank water slush them around with my hand getting any crap off them put it all back together and run it agin then about 2 to 3 weeks later do the same to the other one am i doing somthing wrong
[/quote]

Sounds like you're doing it right IMO...are you vacuuming the substrate when you do water changes and are you removing uneaten food ASAP? If so you're source water may be a problem as mentioned earlier, but a simple water test will answer that.

I still say toss in some java moss or java fern as they can survive most any conditions and low light levels. You can try floating some bunch plants too depending on what lights you have. They will suck up the excess nitrates and provide cover for your p's.


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## tiran (Apr 27, 2007)

BioTeAcH said:


> Canister filters (any filter really) can become nitrate factories if not properly maintained due to the buildup of trapped decaying matter...other than water changes, plants are the only practical way to remove nitrates. Try some java fern or java moss in there.


whats the proper way of cleaning out a filter, when one of my fx5's are dirty i take all the sponges out give them a good cleaning in old tank water then i take all my bio rocks from the filter dump them in another bucket of old tank water slush them around with my hand getting any crap off them put it all back together and run it agin then about 2 to 3 weeks later do the same to the other one am i doing somthing wrong
[/quote]

Sounds like you're doing it right IMO...are you vacuuming the substrate when you do water changes and are you removing uneaten food ASAP? If so you're source water may be a problem as mentioned earlier, but a simple water test will answer that.

I still say toss in some java moss or java fern as they can survive most any conditions and low light levels. You can try floating some bunch plants too depending on what lights you have. They will suck up the excess nitrates and provide cover for your p's.
[/quote]

every water change i vacume every feeding i leave food in no longer than 30 minutes, and come to think of it i havent cleaned out my filters in almost year could this be the problem


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Under 20 is better. You have to keep them as low as you can becasue no3 is a toxin that could be fatal if the levels reach to high. Not to mention ammonia and nitrite may be high as well at thet point. Another option is to plant the tanks since plants use up no3.
I would also watch how much you are feeding and clean up any leftover right away.

Yes this applies to all fish since no3 is toxic to any fish.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

tiran said:


> every water change i vacume every feeding i leave food in no longer than 30 minutes, and come to think of it *i havent cleaned out my filters in almost year could this be the problem*


I'd start there...did you do a nitrate check on your source water yet?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Definately start checking the source as mentioned. Personally I dont believe the nitrates need to be at 20 ppm or less for pygos. I am more in the 40 ppm or less range for pygos. Serras are different and for those to achieve maximum growth you need 20 ppm or less. If you feed them every day or even every other day than a water change of 30% every 3 days should be fine once you get the nitrates down to a minimum. 5 pygos of that size in a 125G are going to produce alot of waste.


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## tiran (Apr 27, 2007)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Definately start checking the source as mentioned. Personally I dont believe the nitrates need to be at 20 ppm or less for pygos. I am more in the 40 ppm or less range for pygos. Serras are different and for those to achieve maximum growth you need 20 ppm or less. If you feed them every day or even every other day than a water change of 30% every 3 days should be fine once you get the nitrates down to a minimum. 5 pygos of that size in a 125G are going to produce alot of waste.


ill have to check my source because because in a period of two to three days im doing water changes. Even though my nitrates get to 20ppm doing a large water change like i posted earlier is to much even though its not throwing off my water perams is this bad for them could it also be my filters


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

To be honest going from 20 to 40 ppm in a couple days is pretty much normal with your bio load. The pygos will be fine in 40 ppm of nitrates. I wouldnt get to aggressive with the filters but with any sponges just one squeeze in a bucket of tank water will be sufficient. You dont want to lose too much bacteria even though it will re-colonize quickly. Any other media just do what it takes to remove any organic matter.


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## tiran (Apr 27, 2007)

Dr. Giggles said:


> To be honest going from 20 to 40 ppm in a couple days is pretty much normal with your bio load. The pygos will be fine in 40 ppm of nitrates. I wouldnt get to aggressive with the filters but with any sponges just one squeeze in a bucket of tank water will be sufficient. You dont want to lose too much bacteria even though it will re-colonize quickly. Any other media just do what it takes to remove any organic matter.


thanks doctor giggles i like your response you always give the best answer and solutions you've helped me out many times in the past thanks, and also biotech thanks


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