# Human Cloning?



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Just wondering what the stance is from the users here....there has been a lot in the news lately about this with those Raelian quacks.


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## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I have 2 views of it,

I dont think we should mess with Gods work.

However it would be nice to have an endless supply of organs and such


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Yeah but the problem is you will have to kill human life to harvest those organs....Have anyone seen Gattica?


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

dont clone actual people to live, just clone organs and cells.

any coincidence:

G uanine
A denine
T hymine
T hymine
A denine
C ytosine
A denine


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Booo that sh*t can only go bad! It will be like Star Wars Episode 2 some nut will clone billions of soilder and kill us normal folk. Or they will take us over, They took Arnold over! If they can get him they can get ANY ONE OF US!


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

its good, so long as we keep the cloned bodies devoid of the higher levels of brain matter (just keep the brainstem and such, for basic bodily survival). Then we're all set


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## bgshortys (Apr 7, 2003)

as long as its left up to the experts (doctors and such)who know what their doing, but in 100 years if it becomes common knowledge, there would be things like basment cloning labs. That would suck


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Three words: *Boys from Brazil*.......


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Human cloning bad. Human body parts good. There is a massive medical benefit to cloning that is currently being stiffled due to ignorance on the political front. There needs to be a better understanding of the differences. Also clones to date have had all sorts of medical problems. Dolly was not 100% healthy. The Raelians are a riot, it's just a cult looking for attention. Nobody should take them seriously and I think we can safely say that they are full of crap, they don't have any clones.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Can they clone stem cells yet? Stem cells seem to hold the key to cure most diseases where degeneration of tissue is a problem....i.e. spinal cord injuries etc.....


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Can they clone stem cells yet? Stem cells seem to hold the key to cure most diseases where degeneration of tissue is a problem....i.e. spinal cord injuries etc.....


 Isn't that one of the things banned right now?


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## SnowCichlid (Jan 10, 2003)

there must be a way they can just duplicate needed parts and not the whol thing... if not thats there next project


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

They can. Much easier than cloning an entire being.


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## Clay (Feb 28, 2003)

I am in favor of cloning. I think the possibilities are endless. Why wouldn't we? Because a fictional belief says we shouldn't? Riiiight. No thanks, I'll let you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Now if you don't want to study cloning, fine, don't. I want the options down the road. Don't condemn my future based on YOUR beliefs.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

There are a number of reasons that are in favor in cloning (or at least, 'farming' body parts), but as with so many things, there is a number of dangerous con's to cloning, and for me, those outweigh the potential benefits.

Compare knowledge about cloning and the technology to put it into practice to WMD if you will: as long as they are in responsible hands, it's pretty safe. But just like with WMD, the knowlegde _will_ become available to people who should not have it in the long run.... There are enough lunatics out there looking for ways to achieve their goals: cloning knowledge will be just one of them....

But I admit cloning offers more potential good than WMD ever had or will....


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

This is another ethics arguement that will have no end.

Why is cloning bad? Can you give me one negitve, UNSUBJECTIVE, reason that cloning a human for no other purpose could lead to? There are many benifits which can be stated objectively in support of cloning.

Did many of you know that cloning of human organs can be done is PIGS. These organs are then perfectly transferable to human patients. It has already been done. However, without cloning, this would not be possible.

I am actually in favor of cloning. I feel that it provides a greater good. However I am a scientist at heart, and live life with that way of thinking. I believe in darwinism. Those that believe in one of the major religions will usually not aggree with cloning. Many of this countries lawmakers fit into this category, and this is why cloning is illegal as well as the rest of the world.

Its amazing how P owners can become prolife when it has to do with HUMAN life, but somehow find amusement in watching the death of countless feeders, mice, and rats.

Again, I am not exempt from this in anyway. Like I said before we pick and choose, what best fit our conviences and moral values. I choose the greater good which cloning can provide.

~Dj


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

It's not all that amazing, human life is usually valued more than that of animals, particularly smaller ones. But anyways that's not the point. Cloning body parts is vastly different than cloning an entire being. Cloning body parts should be done, just imagine how many lives can be saved by creating organs rather than waiting for a suitable donor.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

well yeah, thats y i think itd be great if we could clone humans, but like take out the higher levels of their brains out as babies, or figure a way to make it so the higher level doesnt develop in the first place, but i think the former would be easiest


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

Neoplasia said:


> Cloning body parts should be done, just imagine how many lives can be saved by creating organs rather than waiting for a suitable donor.


 Definately. But this is considered human cloning, as it requires the use of stem cells which is illegal.

~Dj


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

I wish they were putting their cloning powers towards somthing better, like cloning SuperPiranha.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

> I want the options down the road. Don't condemn my future based on YOUR beliefs.


I have to agree with Clay on this one


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

glad to see that most everyone here is practical-minded; I figured we'd have a few moral zealots prowling around or something


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Just as long as nobody makes a clone of Clay.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Neoplasia said:


> Just as long as nobody makes a clone of Clay.










I was actually trying to weed out the moral zealots that would make this topic interesting...come on people, I know some of you are out there!


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## unxchange (Mar 4, 2003)

Darn, should've gotten here earlier.. now I am too lazy to read all that.


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

I too have heard that the organs of a PIG are suitable for humans. However I dont know what they'd tell their children... "yea kids, my heart came from a pig!"
Anyway, they started reproducing human body parts already. They had this one story about how they grew a human ear on the back of a mouse. It was then surgically removed, and placed onto a little girl who was born without one or something. I dont think it was functional, but anything is possible.
Stem Cell Research was banned by Bush [bastard]. Without the research, we wont be able to do any test clones, for all those drastically ill with AIDS and every other incurable disease...


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Stem cell research has not been banned by Bush. What a stem cell is, is a starting material for a more specialized cell. A stem cell has the ability to turn into almost every other type of cell. Stem cells can come from either a human embryo, or bone marrow from an adult. Stem cells from adults lack the flexibility human embryonic cells have to morph into any other cell type. The only source for embryonic cells comes from embryos that would be discarded from fertility clinics. Bush has banned the creation of embryos to harvest for stem cell research. The ethical problem is that scientists are technically creating a "human life" to kill and harvest. The goal of stem cell research is to establish a cell line of stem cells that can generate more stem cells indefinitely. Once a line is created, there will be no need to go through the process of harvesting embryos. There are already many cell lines being cultivated at numerous labs, and there is really not a big set back by Bush's ban since the cells can be stored at -80C indefinitely. However, scientists have had massive problems trying to prevent stem cells in culture to reproduce indefinitely without differentiating. Once scientists can grow the cell lines, they can then condition stem cells to specialize into specific organs and tissues (i.e skin, liver, heart, etc.).

Sorry, had to give my quick overview of stem cell research.


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

I think we should clone jenna jameson


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

mdemers883 said:


> I think we should clone jenna jameson


 Replacement for the blow up one in the closet, eh? Damn fine choice if I might add. I on the other hand prefer Kobe Tai. YUM!!!!

~Dj


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## CKY (Apr 14, 2003)

Sylvia Saint!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

About Stem Cell research, I was implying the stem cells from embryo's since those were the Stem Cells that would do us the most good. I'm sure the stem cells from an adult bone marrow would be fine for some things, but as you said, they dont have the same flexibility. Thanks for the increased information though.


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

NO! CELESTE! YEAH HAW~!


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

human cloning will not do anything except be a burdeon on people! besides, why would anyone want to clone another being? it won't be the same person, it'll be a completely different person with different thoughts!

example: if you clone jenna jameson, than you'll have to sexual creatures at your hands...thats a good thing! if you clone to johns, thats a bad thing, because one john is enough for the world, two john's will bring the world onto its knees....thats a bad thing!

human organ cloning is a good thing though, but i dont think we have the ability to clone organs yet!

-james


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## InSinUAsian (Jan 3, 2003)

What about couples that cannot concieve naturally on thier own? Cloneing would provide a way to allow these couple to experience the joys of parenthood.

This is just one example for human cloining.

~Dj


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

InSinUAsian said:


> What about couples that cannot concieve naturally on thier own? Cloneing would provide a way to allow these couple to experience the joys of parenthood.
> 
> This is just one example for human cloining.
> 
> ~Dj


 That's why we have artificial insemination (sp?), or adoption, etc. I dont believe human cloning has been successful yet. I know they've tested it on the embryo's, but they only got up to a certain stage before stopping. They didn't use good eggs, they choose all the ones that wouldn't grow up right anyway, cloned them, but the things only grew to I think stage 4 then ceased to continue... Eventually, they're going to go the distance with it... for now, just human ears on mice...


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

This is the worlds new topic. 
this question; makes or brakes a country.

Ask your self some questions, before you say yes or no on human clone's.

#1) Do want to see your kid or husban/wife fighting a war, when he dosnt have to.
#2) If one day you woke up, and could not move any thing in your body. And the docotors said there is no hope for you, unless they give you a new "whaterever" and there is a 90 chance you will make it out better then befor your accadent, would you say yes?
#3) Do you want to end hunger in our country and or all the others in this world?
#4) your wife dies in a car wreck, however she is living on life surpport, with one "yes" she will be all better and back to normal.
#5) Your dog dies, or gets un godly ill, want him to get better?
#6) The ability to have people who no one cares about; do things that other people might not want to do; or cant do. 
#7) End all humman suffering
#8) end all human illess and or disabilts.
#9) if u went bind, do you want to be able to see again?

Vote yes, on human cloning 2020.
- Bobme


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

bobme said:


> Vote yes, on human cloning 2020.
> - Bobme


 Are you going to run for President, too??


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## Clay (Feb 28, 2003)

BlazedSpecV said:


> human cloning will not do anything except be a burdeon on people!


 Ok, that's an *opinion*. You can't throw an opinion out there that is baseless. Just cuz isn't an answer. Come on, gimme some concrete reasons why we shouldn't continue to research cloning and move forward with actual clones.

You do understand that it isn't a cloned baby/person, and that it's simply a cloned cell that is carried by a flesh and blood woman, right?

BTW, I also support stem cell research.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

KumbiaQueens said:


> bobme said:
> 
> 
> > Vote yes, on human cloning 2020.
> ...


 in the year 2020 i plan on running, yes i do.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

bobme said:


> KumbiaQueens said:
> 
> 
> > bobme said:
> ...


 my heart will be in the race with you, man! Just watch out tho, theres a hell of a lot of conservatives out there who'd like nothing more than to squash small, hyperactive bananas in their tracks.


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

Cloning isn't that easy...in order to successfully cloned "dolly"...they went through a lot of misses......FOR ME...i don't support the idea of cloning...y would i want a replicate of myself?...even if they were successfully cloned someone...the cloned WON'T be anywhere closed to the original due to other aspects/eviroments/factors that will have effects on the clone and that clone ain't gonna be LIKE you......i think itz a desparate move for any1 trying to clone themselves...but we all need an extra organs...thatz just my 2 cents..


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Like I said, cloning parts/organs good, cloning people bad. Dolly was a partial success, she had very serious health problems.


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## Clay (Feb 28, 2003)

And the only way to move past those problems is to continue and attempt again.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

Clay said:


> And the only way to move past those problems is to continue and attempt again.


 Yes,
however please take note: no one picked apart my questoins


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## Neoplasia (Feb 16, 2003)

Probably because nobody here knows enough to really get into the topic very deep.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

damn fish people


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

Neoplasia said:


> Dolly was a partial success, she had very serious health problems.


 The thing with Dolly was that her organs were already aged. When she was cloned, everything was done at that current age. EX: If you cloned a 45 year old man, the baby clone would organs that have already aged 45 years. When Dolly was made, the original was already 6 years old, and sheep only live appx. 12 years. Dolly died when she was a little over 6 years old. We have yet to perfect cloning, which is why I think we should continue the research. Modern age cloning is like burning a CD... the copy isn't nearly as good in quality as the first. However, you cant turn back time. In order for clones to be perfected, scientists would need to find out how to take years off the cloned organs so that they're newer.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Im sorry, but human cloning is just







I only want one of me in this world







Human cloning would cause too many problems. Such of these being if you have an exact replica of you and the other person does something stupid enough that they put up a warrant for them 'your' picture is now up for being wanted, when in reality your innocent. Since theyre a replica, they would have the same DNA... therefore youd have a hell of a time proving your innocence. Anyways, Im against it. There are many people out there who have no homes and who are there own person. To go around cloning people when already were over populated as is with *real* people, it would be wrong.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Im sorry, but human cloning is just
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 but you see, thats where you are worng all ready!
Human cloning is not a human photocopyer.

We cant clone you; if you even know what cloning meens maybe people would understand. Its making a embro out of DNA then with an egg, turning it into a baby and injecting it into the female.
when born; it is a diffrent person, might look simi the same, or diffrent jsut as when u have a real kid, and its brain is ... well a new born.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

and then u can scoop the higher levels of the brain out, so its just a vegetable, and it provides you with loads of organ transplants whenever u need them


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## KumbiaQueens (Feb 5, 2003)

bobme said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > Im sorry, but human cloning is just
> ...


 That's for twins... Just like BobMe said, human cloning wouldn't be the exact same being at the exact same point in time. Only way of that would be if you were cloned as a baby... but even still, one would be at least 9 mo. older...


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

hm, i think this topic has a very confusing title. to some people, like stalker karen, the term "human cloning" means that they would have an EXACT duplicate copy of themselves running amok on society, but with a different thought pattern, and to them it might be considered a burdeon. to other people, the term "human cloning" might mean cloning human organs/matter/cells for the purpose of medical science that would benefit humanity.

im sort of on the fence on human cloning.

on one side, we clone embryos only to use them for certain things, and then we kill them. im pro-life and i believe that embryo's are a living being. they eat, sleep, and grow. in my opinion, an embryo is the next stage in the life process after the cell process.
on the other, what cfr3 said about embryo having a lot more flexibility in creating stem cells to change into specialized stem cells for specific needs is true.

-james


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

BlazedSpecV said:


> on one side, we clone embryos only to use them for certain things, and then we kill them. im pro-life and i believe that embryo's are a living being. they eat, sleep, and grow. in my opinion, an embryo is the next stage in the life process after the cell process.
> 
> -james


 do you protest the use of things like insects and rats for testing purposes as well?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Okay, fine maybe its not an exact replica...however, I still wouldnt want someone who looks like me running around in this world.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Okay, fine maybe its not an exact replica...however, I still wouldnt want someone who looks like me running around in this world.


 I'm pretty sure almost noone would. Therefore its reasonable to believe that direction/policy in cloning won't be taken.


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

" _do you protest the use of things like insects and rats for testing purposes as well? _" -piranha45

i don't but my girlfriend does, she believes its animal cruelty. but see, there's no answer to that question, it'll just go in a big loop with one side arguing its cruel and unusual punishment, and the other would stat the question "what else should we test it on?"

-james


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

P45- Thats an Animal Rights Activist...lol..


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Okay, fine maybe its not an exact replica...however, I still wouldnt want someone who looks like me running around in this world.


 they say everbody has a twin in this world...


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

BlazedSpecV said:


> " _do you protest the use of things like insects and rats for testing purposes as well? _" -piranha45
> 
> i don't but my girlfriend does, she believes its animal cruelty. but see, there's no answer to that question, it'll just go in a big loop with one side arguing its cruel and unusual punishment, and the other would stat the question "what else should we test it on?"
> 
> -james


So, then, you believe rats are a lesser life form than embryos?

Also, if your religious or something, please say so, in order that this argument might stop right here and save us both some time. I shoulda asked earlier...


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

what most people don't relize is that cloneing dosen't create life, you need to have a living eymbro to remove its dna and place the new dna into with the hope it will take on the caristics of the new dna, but usually is fails and the result is a deformity that usually dies. not exactly something I would suggest with people, not with the technogoly available right now.


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

"_So, then, you believe rats are a lesser life form than embryos?

Also, if your religious or something, please say so, in order that this argument might stop right here and save us both some time. I shoulda asked earlier... _" -piranha45

i was a christian, but then i moved out, and now im an atheist. and i believe that rats are not a lesser form of life than embryos. but see what i mean.....this i'll go round and round in circles

-james


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Well then, you must have overexaggerated a bit when you decried the use of embryos as experimental subjects, right?

Boiled down to it, you DO ultimatelysupport the research and development of cloning, then? You also wanted to state that despite it all, though, you still have some mild ethical reservations on the subject.

Just trying to clear things up...


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

" _Well then, you must have overexaggerated a bit when you decried the use of embryos as experimental subjects, right?

Boiled down to it, you DO ultimatelysupport the research and development of cloning, then? You also wanted to state that despite it all, though, you still have some mild ethical reservations on the subject._" - piranha45

how did i overexaggerate about the use of embyro's as experimental subjects? im just stating that you're initially killin a living being for the medical science. basically yes, when you do get down to it, i support the scientific research and development of cloning.

if you want to discuss religion, im up to it as well

-james


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

no im pretty sure most everyone here including ourselves arent a bunch of delluded saps; no need to discuss religion here. Its just that your moralistic approach came as a mild surprise, which had aroused suspicions


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

what kind of suspicions?

-james


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

suspicions that you were religious. Where else does irrationality come from?


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

Clay said:


> And the only way to move past those problems is to continue and attempt again.


 Y do we need another Clay?....one is already too much to handle


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## plikplak (May 1, 2003)

Exactly why in the [email protected]#! would anyone want to clone a human being? So we can continue breeding and producing more humans? We are the single most dispicable race of animal that has ever existed in the history of this planet. The Earth has nothing to lose by destroying us, which it will do (SARS!) We should concentrate on cloning endagered species, and halting the population growth of our own. Geez!
Live long and die out!


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

My take on human cloning is that it is not a good idea - the planet is already over populated so why would we want more people?

I can understand that if you or your family has a desiese and the only way to cure it is with an organ transplant of using stem cells you might be in favour, but IMO that is a biest and greedy opinion to have.

sure it is sad that people die when their is "something" that could be done, but if nobody died the world would get destroyed pretty quickly and all of the saving peoples lives would have been the main cause to the end.

also how creepy would it be having a younger version of yourself running around?

and just imagine what the clone would feel like - it would be like you would be if you knew you were a science experiment.

it is just plain wrong


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## cfr3 (Feb 20, 2003)

Let me clear some things up for everyone. Cloning and stem cell research are two completely separate things at this time. Current methods of cloning are very crude. Currently, the cloning method involves taking DNA from a cell and injecting it into an egg. The egg is then implanted in vivo (scientists take the egg and place it into the womb of a woman) where the egg then develops as a normal fertilized egg would. A key point of this process is that the new "clone" only has the same genetic starting material and is not a "photocopy". Many characteristics and traits of an organism are a function of their enironment, not just their DNA. Therefor, say you did lose your wife to some horrible accident, the "clone" you create of her would *not* be the same person. The clone would be a function of the environment that it was raised and developed in. The clone still has to go through schooling and acquire knowledge and experiences to shape the psyche of themselves. The other thing is the clone will grow at a normal rate, which means that you will be married to an infant. I don't think we have any sick bastards out there that really like 'em that young. The method I just described is currently our only means for creating cloned life. I think nobody will argue that it is extremely unethical to grow someone as I just described to kill them when they are 10 for a heart or something. This form of cloning is banned in the US, and just about everyoen agrees rightly so. Stem cell research is in its infancy and is a *long* way off from developing the ability to manipulate stem cells into replacement organs and tissue. There is no restrictions on stem cell research, only on stem cell harvesting. The push is for scientists to develop formulations and conditions that can allow a stem cell line to perpetuate itself indefinitely. This is where the focus of research is now mostly. Once this is achieved scientists can work on adding stimulants to direct stem cells to grow into specific organs/tissues. They are not even contemplating at this time growing up humans from stem cells. The whole issue about stem cells centers around at what point do you consider human life has been created. Because, if you consider human life has started at the embryonic development stage, harvesting of stem cells is comparable to if I needed a liver and I walked up to you and killed you so that I could have your liver. Nobody who is rational will argue that I have the right to kill someone so that I may benefit. Thus, the whole argument is at what point does human life start.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Innes said:


> I can understand that if you or your family has a desiese and the only way to cure it is with an organ transplant of using stem cells you might be in favour, but IMO that is a biest and greedy opinion to have.


 innes, your much too altruistic


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## dead golfish (Apr 24, 2003)

i believe that testing on rats mice insects is extremely cruel because they are alive they feel the pain of whatever torture a scientist is doing to them i beleive that by doing this we are using innocent animals to fix are problems that some of the time we started you may argue that I am toruing animals when I put feeders into my fish tank the truth is that, that is the cycle of life and if you do not feed you P's or any other predatorial fish they will die
when cow dies for our food we bread the cows and if it wasn't for us there wouldnt be 1 third of the cows on the planet

also I tink that human cloning is wrong and sould be left alone only more problems could occur from this

however this is my opinion and well i backed it up with what ive got


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

BlazedSpecV said:


> hm, i think this topic has a very confusing title. to some people, like stalker karen, the term "human cloning" means that they would have an EXACT duplicate copy of themselves running amok on society, but with a different thought pattern, and to them it might be considered a burdeon. to other people, the term "human cloning" might mean cloning human organs/matter/cells for the purpose of medical science that would benefit humanity.
> 
> im sort of on the fence on human cloning.
> 
> ...


 nope your worng; ask a doctor what i said it the right one.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Im for human cloning if its for my benefit







Imagine having Catherine Zeda JOnes's, Elizabeth Hurleys, and porn stars!!! OOOH man!!!!


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## plikplak (May 1, 2003)

No matter what your beliefs are for or against cloning human tissue or cloning human beings, the fact remains that this technology will be used to make money for someone directly or indirectly. We as humans have one thing in common. An overwelming greed that is consuming our lifestyles and our culture. We will not be happy until the entire world has been turned into a giant shopping mall, and all diseases and hardships are erraticated. That way we can watch all of the TV and eat all of the Cheezy Poofs we want and never have to worry that a lion ("In Africa! Are you sure..?") will jump us while endevouring to find our next meal. Don't we do enough damage as it is? Why make more of us (who we do not have room for) or make the sick ones live longer? This is not the view of an agnostic or athiest, I believe in God and am proud of it. I am not however a religeous finatic. I believe that all creatures are equal, and that is one reason why I keep fish. What happens when you spawn fish and cannot get rid of the babies? Or overcrowd your tank? The tank fights back and your fish die. We will do the same thing to ourselves, we just have a larger tank. Unfortunately the other species we share the planet with will have to suffer due to our greed. Is this a thought that makes you happy? Going back to money and greed, you know all to well what that has done for the fish industry. Hybrids, deformities, raping of natural resources in the name of consumerism. Soon they will be putting Pepsi adds on the fish they sell you. We will do this because in such a limited world the only way for a lot of people to afford the BMW and the big house is to live off of what you needlesly consume (McDonalds, Coke, Snickers). We all love that stuff, but you don't need it and it creates a lot of pollution. Now start throwing medicine around (another money making industry), and give someone the option to regrow an organ or two, revive a dying loved one, the list goes on. Then you really start playing havoc with the natural balance, because birth rate increases death rate decreses. Diseases mutate because we are keeping people from dying from them by using tissue regrowth, medecines, lasers, etc. and become impervious to our methods. Then we are in a real pinch, so we have to start quarantining sections of the population, doing mass sterilizations to prevent starvation, "selective culling" of unheathly populations, the list goes on. Do you want to live in that world? Have fun! I'll pass. We should allow nature to take it's course and stop trying to play God. Some of you will die at an early age. Some will live long. Some will suffer, some won't. It's called LIFE, and we should just accept it and move on. That in MHO is the only reason we need to say no to cloning. We really should concentrate on educating our population. Once our growth has been stopped and we decrease the size of the population to a level that can exist within the boundaries of this planet, the we should look for ways to enhance the quality of our lives. But for right now our society will not allow any technology to be used for the good it was intended, just look at the damn Internet. I say if you want organs for transplants, go get some of the rich money-mongers out their and take their organs, then distribute their wealth back into society. That is a much better solution to me. That way we could afford to repair some of the damage we have done to the world allows us to exist in the first place.

Anyone disagree?


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

plikplak said:


> We as humans have one thing in common. An overwelming greed that is consuming our lifestyles and our culture.
> 
> That way we can watch all of the TV and eat all of the Cheezy Poofs


Are you talking about yourself?























and YES you gonna die soon























and one more thing...animals are NEVER ON THE SAME LEVEL W/ HUMAN BEINGS....for me at least...they would never come close to being comparing to human beings...BUTTTT...therez always a BUTTT...abusing animals not permissible...according to you...u'd put animals on the same level w/ humans...but then...y are you keeping them in your house?...shouldn't they belong in the wild?????...


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## BlazedSpecV (Apr 28, 2003)

the human race itself is a weed! all we do is spread our seeds and kill our surroundings!

-james


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

here, blazed, good website for ya. Should give you some inspiration









http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/e-sermon...ns/butcher.html


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## plikplak (May 1, 2003)

Funny that people always think that because of a more highly developed brain (or less in some cases) they have more right to live and be happy than species that have existed for thousands of years longer than ours and have done no damage to the planet...

I am speaking of the human race as a whole, myself included, and yourself included. If I die you comin' wid me!

Poke poke poke...

Keeping animals out of interest and like for a species is cruel in some ways, but then again the survival rate of animals in the wild is very low especially with our help (or lack there of). That is another subject altogether...

OK, I have had my gripe for the day. Thanks!
I enjoy your forum, don't own any piranhas, guess I am just a piranha-poser!


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

visit and add our Non-Piranha Forum to ur bookmarks... we can always use another guy!


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## plikplak (May 1, 2003)

Thanks! I'll do that.
That is the funniest damn avatar I have ever seen in my life...
Love my cat but damn that is funny...


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