# MICE - Let's Set The Record Straight



## *J2* (Apr 28, 2005)

Everytime I read these posts about feeder mice, being good for, or bad for a piranha...It always boils down to these main points:

1. They don't eat this diet in the wild, so it's not good to feed it to them.

MY RESPONSE: Almost all things we feed piranhas, they don't encounter in the wild. Such as shrimp, smelt, squid, silversides, catfish etc. Yet, these are all fed frequently...so please, stop using this reason as why we should not feed mice. And just to clarify even more...Im sure in the wild...they do eat mice...as its not impossible for a mouse to fall in water and get eaten.

2. Mice have NO nutrional value.

MY RESPONSE: This has got to be the biggest misinformation yet. What are feeder mice for anyways? TO FEED. They are the main diet of Monitor Lizards and Snakes. That's all they eat...and yet...snakes and lizards seem to be fine on just that diet...And yes, you can make the arguement, that they are meant to eat these foods, because they do in the wild...seeing that they have highly acidic stomachs...But my point is...Is that they MUST be nutrional if thats all that lizards and snakes live on.

3. The hair clogs up your filter/ Too much mess.

MY RESPONSE: Here's another porblem that is easily solved...Either feed hairless mice...or feed them pinkies. I have 3, 4-6" rbps and they devour pinkies/fuzzies in 1-2 bites...No mess. So here's another point shot down.

My point in this post is simple. I would really like some expert clarification as to why, EXACTLY why, its bad to feed pinkies/fuzzies to piranha as a staple diet....without getting the same tired reasons that make no sense. It just seems to me people use these reasons...but in actuality they are just against the cruelty of mice getting shredded by piranhas. That really seems like the only logical reason why anyone would be against it. And to me...that's just a matter of opinion of wrong or right...And that has no place in this matter. I'm asking for facts...not opinion.

*Experts...Please Set The Record Straight.*


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

*J2* said:


> Everytime I read these posts about feeder mice, being good for, or bad for a piranha...It always boils down to these main points:
> 
> *1. They don't eat this diet in the wild, so it's not good to feed it to them.*
> 
> ...


You don't think mice or other animals fall in the rivers from trees in the wild? Just a thought. I myself have never fed any mice to my reds, but I do think it plays a small part in their natural diet.


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## Blue (Mar 23, 2005)

It's probably not bad... and I'm sure that the fish would live on mice (as long as there isn't some sort of vitamin missing) indefinitely. I think alot of people want to provide a more realistic diet comprised mostly of fish parts (Piranha Adventure with Nigel Marvin).


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## *J2* (Apr 28, 2005)

Dawgnutz...

I think you mis-read my post. The numbered sentences were reasons, that most people on these forums give as to why you should NOT feed mice to piranhas. The RESPONSE following was my personal response to these reasons. Also, if you look at my response...Bolded and in Red...You will see that I already stated that they do probably eat mice in the wild.

But thanks for your interest...as we are both thinking on the same page.











Dawgnutz said:


> *J2* said:
> 
> 
> > Everytime I read these posts about feeder mice, being good for, or bad for a piranha...It always boils down to these main points:
> ...


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## ArtDMSU (Apr 30, 2005)

I fed my 2 ball pythons mice/rats and hapsters for a long time before I realized that I should probably spray the mice with a liquid vitamin before I fed them. I noticed no difference in the amount of growth with or without the vitamin. I know for a fact that many pet shops do feed their rats and mice dog food or even worse. This is incredibly unhealthy for rats to digest and therefore snakes to digest also. I would then think that it would also be bad for piranhas to digest.

Another fact that I heard that relates to this is... I fed my piranhas hamburger with some pellets mixed in to it and I told some guy at the local pet shop about it and he said that red meat was really hard on piranhas digestive system. I have since changed their main staple to white meat, like fish.

Just my 2 cents


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

*J2* said:


> Dawgnutz...
> 
> I think you mis-read my post. The numbered sentences were reasons, that most people on these forums give as to why you should NOT feed mice to piranhas. The RESPONSE following was my personal response to these reasons. Also, if you look at my response...Bolded and in Red...You will see that I already stated that they do probably eat mice in the wild.
> 
> ...


Your right I did miss read it.







Sorry about the confusion


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

*J2* said:


> My point in this post is simple. I would really like some expert clarification as to *why, EXACTLY why, its bad to feed pinkies/fuzzies to piranha as a staple diet*....without getting the same tired reasons that make no sense. It just seems to me people use these reasons...but in actuality they are just against the cruelty of mice getting shredded by piranhas. That really seems like the only logical reason why anyone would be against it. And to me...that's just a matter of opinion of wrong or right...And that has no place in this matter. I'm asking for facts...not opinion.
> 
> *Experts...Please Set The Record Straight.*
> [snapback]1020000[/snapback]​


I dont think there are any "experts" that feel it is necessarily bad to feed a mouse ever once in a while...you can buy them frozen if you wish. The argument comes in that the main diet of these fish should be consistent to what they would get in the wild and what their digestive system has evolved to digest. That is more inline with a diet of white fish such as tilapia, catfish, ect. You referring to having mice as the staple diet for these fish would go against what these fish have evolved to eat.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

If you would like an experts opinion on this here you go:

B. Scott of TFH on piranha diet.


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## *J2* (Apr 28, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> [snapback]1020000[/snapback]​


I dont think there are any "experts" that feel it is necessarily bad to feed a mouse ever once in a while...you can buy them frozen if you wish. The argument comes in that the main diet of these fish should be consistent to what they would get in the wild and what their digestive system has evolved to digest. That is more inline with a diet of white fish such as tilapia, catfish, ect. You referring to having mice as the staple diet for these fish would go against what these fish have evolved to eat.
[snapback]1020408[/snapback]​[/quote]

Grosse Gurke///

I see what you're saying...and that does make sense. But as we all know, in the wild, piranhas will encounter many different types of meat. Wether it be white fish or red meat...They experience it all. Wouldn't that lead one to beleive that their digestive system is equipped to handle almost anything in its raw natural form, that would be normaly eaten in the wild?









As far as the expert opinion link...I have read that thouroughly before...even before I became a member. I see why they say to avoid red meats...but I guess I was just wondering why lizards and snakes can eat them as a staple diet...But a Piranha...which can and will eat anything in the wild...Cannot do the same. I guess they are just concered its an easy way to gain un wanted weight. So it looks like that's the real answer...according to that.

So would it be safe to say...just don't overfeed on mice, and you should be covered? What I was thinking of going to, was a diet of earthworms and fuzzies.

I like feeding live food...as it seems to hone the piranha's natural instict to hunt and kill.

P.S. I don't have an extra tank to use for fish that need to be quarentined.


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

hey buddy I have no arguments. They do eat almost anything that falls into the water if they are hungry. This would include birds, other mammals going for a drink, lizards, insects etc. They somehow seem to grow fine in the wild. They eat almost everything and anything. In other words, change up the diet that won't kill or harm your p's. They seem to change it up fine in the wild


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

*J2* said:


> I see what you're saying...and that does make sense. But as we all know, in the wild, piranhas will encounter many different types of meat. Wether it be white fish or red meat...They experience it all. *Wouldn't that lead one to beleive that their digestive system is equipped to handle almost anything in its raw natural form, that would be normaly eaten in the wild?*


I think you are giving them too much credit for running into various red meats in the wild. Sure...the occasional sick animal may walk into the river to die but I highly doubt this is a common occurrence. It is not like these fish are hunters...they are first and foremost a scavenger and with all the fish in the river, I think it is only natural that their diet is made up of 90%+ white fish.


> As far as the expert opinion link...I have read that thouroughly before...even before I became a member. I see why they say to avoid red meats...but I guess I was just wondering why lizards and snakes can eat them as a staple diet...But a Piranha...which can and will eat anything in the wild...Cannot do the same. I guess they are just concered its an easy way to gain un wanted weight. So it looks like that's the real answer...according to that.


I think that this article is telling us a couple things. First...piranhas are not really hunters, but scavengers and when you think of all the fish in the rivers vs. the few animals that may occasionally die in the river.......then you can compare what would naturally make up their diet. Also, you can feed your fish what ever you want....but if you want to mimic their natural diet (like your argument suggests) and keep your fish healthy then white fish is the way to go on both counts.



> So would it be safe to say...just don't overfeed on mice, and you should be covered? What I was thinking of going to, was a diet of earthworms and fuzzies.
> 
> *I like feeding live food...as it seems to hone the piranha's natural instict to hunt and kill. *
> 
> P.S. I don't have an extra tank to use for fish that need to be quarentined.


See my statement above.....Only on rare occasions would a piranha actually hunt its prey. They are a scavenger and an opportunistic hunter, meaning the prey is injured or otherwise unhealthy.


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## latinlord (May 9, 2005)

EAT-EN UP!!, I do it all the time. ANy my P's are definitly hunters, haha like sharks, everything i put in the water gets them to come out and Play







, haha


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i think its just not cost effective to use mice as a staple, maybe the occasional

pinky but they are just to small for a group of fish like i have, and not really worth it to me.

as far as honeing their hunting skills i would use a live fish rather the a mouse

or something not designed to live in water, it would increase the compition i think.

and i would rarely use live foods any way cause im just scared to introduce disease

in my tank


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## Relik (Apr 29, 2005)

personally i think thats disgusting it makes your tank all dirty and taking out the waste. gahh i just feed my guys bloodworms, shrimp and the odd goldfish!


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

Why is this even a post?


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## tweekie (Nov 3, 2004)

have you guys seen the movie "supersize me". according to a few people ive spoke to at LFS they say that a diet consisting only of mice is like just eating big Macs everyday. taste good and nice as a treat but not good to eat at every meal.

these guys could have been wrong but thought that it was a good way of describing the scenario.

i would imagine that Ps grow to good sizes in the wild because they have a mixed diet and have alot more swimming space than in a confined tank. again maybe wrong but makes it makes sense in my little brain.


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## *J2* (Apr 28, 2005)

Relik said:


> personally i think thats disgusting it makes your tank all dirty and taking out the waste. gahh i just feed my guys bloodworms, shrimp and the odd goldfish!
> [snapback]1020841[/snapback]​


I just wanted to let you know...feeding them pinkies/fuzzies basically negates the mess of the tank. If your piranha's are big enough, they can take them down in 1-2 bites. So really it doesn't make your tank dirty at all. By the way "odd goldfish" probably messes up your tank and your piranha's health a lot worse. Be careful with those.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

*J2* said:


> I see what you're saying...and that does make sense. But as we all know, in the wild, piranhas will encounter many different types of meat. Wether it be white fish or red meat...They experience it all. Wouldn't that lead one to beleive that their digestive system is equipped to handle almost anything in its raw natural form, that would be normaly eaten in the wild?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think GG covered it best. They only eat mammalian meat on occasion, so their digestive systems have evolved to break down fish. The fact that they eat mammals once in awhile is because the amazon is such a competitive environment for food, not because it's necessarily good for them.



*J2* said:


> I guess I was just wondering why lizards and snakes can eat them as a staple diet...But a Piranha...which can and will eat anything in the wild...Cannot do the same.
> [snapback]1020502[/snapback]​


I think the obvious answer is the one you're missing. Because Lizards and snakes are lizards and snakes, and piranhas are not. I mean, a deer eats nothing but vegetation and it lives perfectly healthy, why can't a piranha eat nothing but leaves, right? Obviously because they're different animals and have differently tailored digestive systems


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## *J2* (Apr 28, 2005)

[quote name='elTwitcho' date='May 11 2005, 01:13 PM']
I think GG covered it best. They only eat mammalian meat on occasion, so their digestive systems have evolved to break down fish. The fact that they eat mammals once in awhile is because the amazon is such a competitive environment for food, not because it's necessarily good for them.

* I'm gonna have to agree with you on this. The day after feeding my 3 rbps 3 fuzzies...The substrate was covered in feces. The most I have ever seen from them. It looked like to me that they barely digested anything. Not 100% sure, but it sure looked liked it. So I guess it is a lot harder for them to break that food down*

I think the obvious answer is the one you're missing. Because Lizards and snakes are lizards and snakes, and piranhas are not. I mean, a deer eats nothing but vegetation and it lives perfectly healthy, why can't a piranha eat nothing but leaves, right? Obviously because they're different animals and have differently tailored digestive systems

*I understand your point on this too. I was more concerned with the people saying that mice have NO nutrional value. My point was that they must have nutrional value, if that's all lizards and snakes live on.*
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## Mack (Oct 31, 2004)

Yeah, they have nutritional value, but only to snakes and lizards -- not piranhas.


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

You know...I was thinking of dropping a Capibara fetus in there..


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## *J2* (Apr 28, 2005)

eL ChiNo LoCo said:


> You know...I was thinking of dropping a Capibara fetus in there..:laugh:
> [snapback]1027353[/snapback]​


I know you're just joking...but that'd be wicked sweet to see.


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## Mr Sparkles (Jun 14, 2005)

I completley agree with J2. Just because a rat or mouse is cute and fluffy doesnt mean it is a good meal for a piranha.

Of course they eat them in the wild and worse but all you out there who say its wrong to feed mice to piranhas, you do not nesisserilly have a problem with feeding feeder fish!


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## delta (Jul 23, 2004)

i feed mine pinkys once a month but i make sure they all get one and only one. I havnt found mess to be a prob w bigger p's as they take a pinky whole.


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## PuffPiff (May 23, 2005)

i wouldnt use it as a staple diet but i love watchin those ugly little rodents get owned...my friend fed his p's a baby squirrel and it got owned something fierce


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