# Why Gravel is better than sand



## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

I see a lot of people using sand these days, I seen a few posts where some guy shows off his piranha tank and it has gravel in it, and no one has a good thing to say but "put sand in it!", "put some Sand in it!" "It will look better with Sand!" etc etc
Everyone has an opinion, that is cool... here is mine..

I will admit, it looks much better, but with sand you have the risk of powerfilter damage from small particles.. where Gravel has bigger chunks and filters generally do not suck it up.

Most sand usiers have to raise the inlet tube up (cut off) way above the bottom to be in the safe zone....
The Problem is, it is much better to have the inlet tube as far down in the tank as possable to get a "whole tank" rotation cycle, with sand and the inlet tube way up, your water rotation is going out and back in the middle deepness of tank, leaving the bottom water to stagnate and collect nitrates, nitrite and Amonia..

Also with sand, if pieces of food get under it, it is harder to syphon deep down under it... and food get in/under any substrate (more food rot in sand)

Also, I hear some people do take chances with inlet tubes near bottom... this may work as long as your fish doesn't get into a fight (usually at bottom) or go after a live fish and stir up sand by inlet tube entrance.... With Cichlids.. FORGET IT!! ...they love to dig and spit...

I just think I would rather give up a little "eye candy" for myself and make sure my fish are healthier and my powerfilters stay in good shape (also makes fish stay more healthy)... my powerfilters I have been using have no problems with Gravel... and I'm not just talking 12- mo to 2-3 yrs luck.. they have been going for 15 up to 20 years, and still work PERFECT, like the day they was new..

Scott


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

well most of the things u are said i dont aggree with
gravel gets a lot nastier than sand any day
even when u gravel vac there still is alot under the gravel
but with sand its usaually stays up top
and with filters just place a piece of nylon over the intake and u can place the inlet tube all the way down

and seriously though
i have sand in 5 tanks right now
and never had a problem with food underneath the layer of sand


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

yea nothing gets under sand buddy everything stays on top


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Gravel lets sh*t go to the bottom...which is bad. Sand is better, or bare bottom.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Death in # said:


> well most of the things u are said i dont aggree with
> gravel gets a lot nastier than sand any day
> even when u gravel vac there still is alot under the gravel
> but with sand its usaually stays up top
> ...


 which part of the intake tube do you put the nylon on, ive got ac500's, the intake inside of the filter? or the actual tube in the water.. im currently changing to sand in one of my tanks


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

I had gravel and switched to sand for the purpose of being able to keep tighter water parameters through a cleaner tank. 100% of the waste piles up in one corner and I just vacuum it up. No problems with ym fitlers either, and the intakes are at stock depths


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

Liquid said:


> Death in # said:
> 
> 
> > well most of the things u are said i dont aggree with
> ...


 put it on the intake tube
and it wont restict water flow
but my tubes are at factory length in my piranha tank and no problems


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

I keep my intakes just as i would if it were gravel, and have had no problems. I keep my powerhead pretty low too, and no problems there either. I have never had water problems from food getting into the sand. Are these things you said from your experience, or just assumptions?


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

You guys ever notice that when you do water changes and you stir up the sand how bubbles come out?

Yeah, that's not a good thing. Ever notice how the bubbles smell like ass? That's hydrogen sulfide.

It's a biproduct anerobic bacteria in the nitrification cycle. Not only is it bad for your fish, it's potentialy lethal to humans. The only time you get gas pockets with gravel is if your gravel is incredibly dirty and becomes anerobic.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

Gumby 
Posted on Dec 5 2004, 12:20 AM



> You guys ever notice that when you do water changes and you stir up the sand how bubbles come out?


never saw that or heard that before


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## KRS one (May 28, 2004)

hey death can you post a pic of this nylon please, i would like to see it because im getting sand in the 75 and i do not want my filters damged, and will the nylone restrict alot of flow?


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

irate said:


> hey death can you post a pic of this nylon please, i would like to see it because im getting sand in the 75 and i do not want my filters damged, and will the nylone restrict alot of flow?


 Think panty hoes. That's nylon. Just put it over the intake at the bottom of the tank.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Gumby said:


> You guys ever notice that when you do water changes and you stir up the sand how bubbles come out?
> 
> Yeah, that's not a good thing. Ever notice how the bubbles smell like ass? That's hydrogen sulfide.
> 
> It's a biproduct anerobic bacteria in the nitrification cycle. Not only is it bad for your fish, it's potentialy lethal to humans. The only time you get gas pockets with gravel is if your gravel is incredibly dirty and becomes anerobic.


 Never had that dude, sounds shitty but it's never happened to me


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## phreakah (Sep 20, 2004)

i have sand and havent had any of these problems either..like eltwitcho said, its nice to have all the sh*t drift into one corner so you can quickly syphon it all up in one area


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## ajayejayaj (Mar 20, 2004)

ive never had problems with sand either.. and personally it looks a lot better and is really easy to clean... if u set up your powerhead right.. u can get all the waste to flow to a certain corner of the tank like elTwitcho said..

all my 4 tanks have sand


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## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

Fresh said:


> yea nothing gets under sand buddy everything stays on top


 Thats is what you think, sand does not make your tank invicable to filth and rotten food.... it's a matter of physics... Sure gravel will collect larger deburs of food particles, and will also collect them only mini deburs.....

You sand people probably have a lot of rot going on under the top layer of your sand.... this would cause a slow leakage of amonia and nitrites rising up ever so slowly... this may not be a problem if you have good filtration to take care of it, but I know when the power goes off (and it does a lot in big rain storms and snow/ice storms sometimes) that my gravel will not be ommitting toxic amonia upward slowly into the tank...

I am not putting you guys Sand system down, I think it also looks much better... not night and day, but better..
I know that is when you can't have a substrat you can not syphon completely to the bottom, can or will have some problems..

I knew I was going to get a ton of people who say "I have no problems with my powerfilters with sand" .... and that might be true..
It's like being an Space Astronaut in a space Shuttle, they can come back and say "I have had no problems, it is not dangerous!!" Give it time!

Sand is Abrasive, all it takes is ONE time to mess your new Emp-400 or Ac-500 up for good... .. just like the Space Shuttle, the chances are you will be okay... do it enough times or long enough... well you know what I mean.

And "NO!" I don't know this from Experiance, never used sand... I also don't know from Experiance that bunge jumping off the Sears Building -without calculating rope length- will, or will not kill me either..

scott


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

if you dont know from experience dont comment on it, easy as that


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

scottyd said:


> You sand people probably have a lot of rot going on under the top layer of your sand.... this would cause a slow leakage of amonia and nitrites rising up ever so slowly... this may not be a problem if you have good filtration to take care of it, but I know when the power goes off (and it does a lot in big rain storms and snow/ice storms sometimes) that my gravel will not be ommitting toxic amonia upward slowly into the tank...
> 
> I am not putting you guys Sand system down, I think it also looks much better... not night and day, but better..
> I know that is when you can't have a substrat you can not syphon completely to the bottom, can or will have some problems..
> ...


 So you don't know from experience but you do know what's going on under my sand?

Right...


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

thats what i said!!


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah but when I say it, it's like "SHAZAM! SNAP! BOOYAKASHA!!!" because of my inate flair, eloquence and charisma, when you say it, it's like listening to Dr Phil on tranquilizers









Playing of course


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> "SHAZAM! SNAP! BOOYAKASHA!!!"


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

ALI G movie, it's so stupid, but so hilarious. I can't help myself


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

that's the gayest show on tv and the movie is probably gay too


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Movie dude, talking about the movie.

But let's stop derailing the sh*t out of this guys thread.

As I said before, I don't have any rotting anything anywhere in my sand. And it's not simple physics why I would, it's simple physics why I don't. The sand doesn't really have huge spaces between the grains for food to fall down into, so it rests on top. I have never seen a piece of food bury itself, or even burry itself partially.

And for the filters, I guess you really have never used sand before. Mine is too heavy (sillica) to float up to the level of the filter intakes if the piranhas stir it up (which they do fairly often). I'm not at all worried about it


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## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

Fresh said:


> if you dont know from experience dont comment on it, easy as that


 Tough turkey dude, you don't like my comments, don't read my posts, I have the right to post, as you do reply, but don't try to shut me up because you don't aggree either.

most of us or probably none of us have any experiance with Hitler or the old Nazi Germany either, but that doens't mean we can't talk about (negative speaking) about it.
get over it... I am controversial in my ways to some of you hear, but I don't dislike ya either, lets not get inflamed, it's a matter of fact, and opinions... and there have been plenty of others on this board who dislike sand as well as me.

And elTwitcho, Silica sand is a man made product from like a glass, can be sharpe , can be hazerdous to a fishes digestive system is they get into it... Natural sand is not

I am not putting your systems down, but I just don't liike to take as many chances with the buildup of micro particles (and they will get under sand) , filter damage, Silica ingestion etc...
That is my reason "I" think Gravel is better...

Scott


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

tough turkey?? wtf

you havent had sand so you really cant comment on it, so where do you get your info from? did you "hear" about it?

you're basically pulling this info from your ass


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

I personally like sand better but the one thing about gravel that is better is you can have a powerhead. I burned out a powerhead in 5 months..


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

scottyd said:


> Fresh said:
> 
> 
> > yea nothing gets under sand buddy everything stays on top
> ...


























You just explained why this thread shouldnt have been started by you.



> Tough turkey dude, you don't like my comments, don't read my posts, I have the right to post, as you do reply, but don't try to shut me up because you don't aggree either.
> 
> most of us or probably none of us have any experiance with Hitler or the old Nazi Germany either, but that doens't mean we can't talk about (negative speaking) about it.
> get over it... I am controversial in my ways to some of you hear, but I don't dislike ya either, lets not get inflamed, it's a matter of fact, and opinions... and there have been plenty of others on this board who dislike sand as well as me.
> ...


You have no experience with sand, have never experienced filter damage from sand, or have had your fish injured from ingestion of silica sand. That is the reason "I" think you have no idea what you are talking about and dont value your opinion on this in any way whatsoever. I like that we all get opinions, dont you?


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## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

Fresh said:


> tough turkey?? wtf
> 
> you havent had sand so you really cant comment on it, so where do you get your info from? did you "hear" about it?
> 
> you're basically pulling this info from your ass


Do a internet search, heck do a search on this board, I have just been reading around this board and found info.. A lot of people like it, and a lot of people have had trouble with sand, it I am not taking the chance thank you! EXPERIANCE???
Doesn't mean I have to be stupid enough to try what MISTAKES others have had... I'm 
am with 99.99999% of the normal fish keeping crowd, I'll stick with Gravel thank you...
not taking the chances. 
I'm not going to flame you for doing so, just that, I feel it is a risk, and I'm not going to hide it even if it offends some.. might help a few people save a filter or a fishes life.
and thats what is important.

scott


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

scottyd said:


> Do a internet search, heck do a search on this board, I have just been reading around this board and found info.. A lot of people like it, and a lot of people have had trouble with sand, it I am not taking the chance thank you! EXPERIANCE???
> Doesn't mean I have to be stupid enough to try what MISTAKES others have had... I'm
> am with 99.99999% of the normal fish keeping crowd, I'll stick with Gravel thank you...
> not taking the chances.
> ...


 You really shouldn't condemn what other people are doing if you haven't tried it yourself. So what if you read what other people do, are they as experienced with the subject as yourself?

For sand being so deadly to fish and impossible to maintain, I should point out one thing. Every saltwater tank uses a sandbottom, and every saltwater tank has to be far more careful about toxic chemical readings than us piranha owners. Sand is fine, period.


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## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

some links, have some pros and cons of sand..

http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/co...quariums_p2.htm

http://www.pondenterprises.com/PAQ/pill%20...%20ii.html#sand

scott


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## evermore (Oct 7, 2003)

i don't know much about sand but i know alittle about silica and isn't silica bad to breath? doesn't it get inpaled(cuz its tiny pieces of glass) in your lungs and cause silicosis? thats when tiny pieces of silica burrows in the tissue of the lungs which causes the lungs to scar and cause cancer. so why wouldn't it do the same to fishes gills? when you buy gravel you are suppose to wash it to remove any silica in it. cause its says its harmful?even on the bag. and being in water means that there's billions of micro-size pieces of glass floating in the water. its not a fast death but a slow one


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## ajayejayaj (Mar 20, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> ALI G movie, it's so stupid, but so hilarious. I can't help myself


 RESPECT..


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

> You sand people probably have a lot of rot going on under the top layer of your sand.... this would cause a slow leakage of amonia and nitrites rising up ever so slowly... this may not be a problem if you have good filtration to take care of it, but I know when the power goes off (and it does a lot in big rain storms and snow/ice storms sometimes) that my gravel will not be ommitting toxic amonia upward slowly into the tank...


This theory actually does hold some water. You guys ever heard of a fulidized bed filter? I'd basicly just a big cylinder with sand in it, water is pumped into the bottom of the sand and the sand rolls around in the current becoming covered in bacteria. If there is ever a power outage and you're running a fulidized bed, the FB filter becomes toxic due to the aerobic bacteria dying. When it comes back on, it dumps a cylinder full of ammonia and nitrate "laced" water back into the tank and it can kill your fish. In a regular tank, the sand could be producing amonia, just to be destroyed by the bacteria in the biological components of your filter. If the power goes out, the ammonia wont be able to reach those bacteria and it could increase.

Interesting theory, scottyd. I like it. I'd like to see someone investigate that.


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## scottyd (Oct 10, 2004)

Gumby said:


> This theory actually does hold some water. You guys ever heard of a fulidized bed filter? I'd basicly just a big cylinder with sand in it, water is pumped into the bottom of the sand and the sand rolls around in the current becoming covered in bacteria. If there is ever a power outage and you're running a fulidized bed, the FB filter becomes toxic due to the aerobic bacteria dying. When it comes back on, it dumps a cylinder full of ammonia and nitrate "laced" water back into the tank and it can kill your fish. In a regular tank, the sand could be producing amonia, just to be destroyed by the bacteria in the biological components of your filter. If the power goes out, the ammonia wont be able to reach those bacteria and it could increase.
> 
> Interesting theory, scottyd. I like it. I'd like to see someone investigate that.
> [snapback]782468[/snapback]​


 Yep, and what really raises the red flag on sand setup with me is everyone talking about how they have a layer of sand in thier tank, and how they only have to just hold a stphon just above sand level and suck up waste.... all this time small micro waste debures will collect and setle into sand.... and Toxic gas will build up.... the only solution is to stir the sand up every week or so.... to relese gas..
I will admit I would not be totally scared to use sand, but I think there is more risks with it than gravel..
I invited the onsled of critisizum when I posted this thread..

I have seen some of the pics of the people on here than use sand, and thier setups look great, and fish look healthy.... It is just me..I just can't see buying a $50 2" Rhom to take more chances, or esp a $1,000.00 16 incher..

scotty


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Gumby said:


> This theory actually does hold some water. You guys ever heard of a fulidized bed filter? I'd basicly just a big cylinder with sand in it, water is pumped into the bottom of the sand and the sand rolls around in the current becoming covered in bacteria. If there is ever a power outage and you're running a fulidized bed, the FB filter becomes toxic due to the aerobic bacteria dying.


The water does not pump in to the bottom of my tank rolling the sand around causing bacteria to culture all over it. You're comparing two different things


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## phreakah (Sep 20, 2004)

this thread is like a virgin tellin us masturbating is better than sex :laugh:


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

having both sand and gravel tanks before, i disagree with what you've posted . for one, it isn't like you CAN'T siphon under the sand. all you have to do is simply drag the vac across the sand bed. doing it gently will sift through the sand and suck of loose detritus. if you've read my pinned post or any of the sand posts in the past, you'll know that most of what you posted will be disproved.

lack of water circulation? that's what powerheads are for. all you have to do is put a sponge at the bottom of the intake and voila, no sand will damage the impeller. simple.

anaerobic bacteria? easily avoided by providing properly circulation and by vacuuming the sand bed. i've never seen air pockets pop up, but oh well.

using sand is HARDLY a risk. nor does it put your fish in danger...ever since i tried sand, i've loved it. looks way better, easier to clean, yadda yadda. but hey, if you wanna stick with gravel that's your prerogative. but don't yap about nonsense if you've never even tried it.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

The first tank I have owned, I set it up last month. I am using SAND. I have had no problems with the SAND that I am using. When I using the gravel vac, I suck the sh*t off the top of the sand, THEN I stir up the sand so get the particles floating around, use the net to sweep up the big stuff, and the filter sucks up the rest. EASY and looks great. Fish are healthy. I am a fish newbie, and I can work with sand, I think that says something.


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## sasquach (Dec 6, 2004)

im afraid to say but gravel is sh*t cos it lets crap get to the bottom whereas sand has evrything settle on the top.


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