# serious question



## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

as a new visitor/member to this forum i dont want to offend anybody but please could somebody explain what possible pleasure can be gained from watching a murderous fish tear body parts from a living mouse or rat?
whether this is natural or not is no excuse as many other forms of feeding are available which dont cause unessasary suffering.
the desire to watch another living creature suffering raises a thousand questions about the individuals who carry out these acts .there is no need! please stop.

i ask this respectfully and in no way wish to upset individual members


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

In my honest opnion, this is no big deal at all with this forum.. Please tell us where you are finding all of these posts about putting rats in with their piranha, to see them get ripped to pieces..









Most piranha hobbyists have already learned that it is a big MESS to feed live rats and/or mice to piranha, because the hair get's everywhere, and clogged in the filters.

As an alternative to grown mice/rats with hair, SOME of us decided to breed mice/rats and feed the pinkies (premature mice/rats) to the piranha, or we purchase them at pet shops.

Even with that in mind, most people still aviod even doing that, because it is unhealthy for piranha, and therefore, are fed as treats once in a GREAT while.

If you are honestly offended about this, I'm sorry to hear about it, but if you are gonna whine and cry about this and that, then leave and never come back because we don't need that, however, we DO like to hear people's opinions.

I don't know if you just posted this because you ran across the site, and thought you'd drop a complaint, or if you have piranha as pets. If you have piranha as pets, stick around, you'll find TONS of information on this site, and it will be very useful to you.
~Taylor~


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

...it's not because you've seen a video of mouse feeding that all piranhas owners do that. I'm against that too soo that's why i feed them shrimp. Those fish are interesting to keep because they are unusual and original to keep.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

there are many referances to mouse and rat feeding if you read back through previous posts (some are fairly old) and there is also downloadable videos for all to "enjoy" .
yes i found this site by browsing and yes i have observed the warnings about explicit content but as you welcome other peoples comments i hope that you will respect my viewpoint aswell. the line between wining and making a valid point in a fine one and i suppose it depends on what side of the fence that you are on.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

i personally dont enjoy that there are some members on this forum that do that is their thing. i dont like it and i think that it is cruel and unhealthy for my p's. i would never feed my p's a mouse or rat. i feed mine mostly raw shrimp/ fish i try to stay away from live fish because most of the live fish that are sold in lfs are not good for my p's. my p's are my joy. i catch my self watching them swim in my power head (current) for long periods of time. my p's are all very interactive with me and they are beautiful creatures. i dont know if you are into p's or fish in general but you have stumbled upon one of the most informative if not the most informative aquarium sites on the web. there is the one of the most educated people in the world on p's who is a member on this site (frank) and many more people on here that can answer any question fish related you have to ask. if you have any questions i would be glad to answer them for you pm me.... welcome to the site btw


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## dave mcg (Jul 15, 2004)

alot of the guys on here keep piranha because they look awsome and just enjoy the fish . 
the piranha fury website gives people a huge database from which to draw information and i think this is a very good thing.but i agree with you on the rodent killing issue .


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i havent giving my fish live food in over a year and a half, not since i cycled my tank


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## john1634 (Mar 22, 2005)

hi i joined this site a few weeks ago and have 5 rbp. I know what feeding videos u are talking about and to be honest i enjoy them , but that being said i don't feed rodents to my pirahnas. this site has provided me with alot of helpful info and i am wondering if u have any pirahna's. they are fascinating pets. and if those feeding videos are so disturbing to u than why do u watch them?


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## bart3lz (Apr 5, 2005)

not to sound smart but have you gone to the snake forums and asked them also to stop feeding mice to their snakes?


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

bart3lz said:


> not to sound smart but have you gone to the snake forums and asked them also to stop feeding mice to their snakes?
> [snapback]983565[/snapback]​


if snakes dont require live food to live then i think you have a good point.
but i do know that piranha dont and therfore unesassary suffering is totally avoidable infact i gather that feeding rats or mice is a pain in the ass due to blocking up filtration so the mind boggles to why anybody would want to go to the
trouble in the first place....macabre voyurism is my only conclusion.
and yes i have kept piranha in the past.
im heartened by the general responses to my question as they seem to back up
my comments and thank the members for responding


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

Do you think that it is wrong for a piranha to tear apart a fish?

because if it is that tearing apart the animal that is your problem i think that is pretty dumb thing to have a problem with. I know that in the wild piranhas would eat a rat or mouse unless it was suddenly dropped in front of them or whatever but be it a fish or a mouse a living thing is a living thing is a living thing. and that is just natural. there are tons of animals in the world that eat living things. and honestly i think it is a lot cooler to see a fish hunt a live thing and to eat a dead thing.

so if you have a problem with just the mouse thing. owell you'll get over it and if you have a problem with the eating liveing things then youll also get over that. people will do what they want and if they want to watch their fish tear the hell out of a mouse then that is just what they are going to do .


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

Plz tell me you didnt just join p-fury and set up a post just to say that to all of us...........


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## edcal (Feb 19, 2005)

good question Patriot. I can see your point frow watching the videos, which is cruel and tough to watch but like a fwy accident, everyone slows down to take a look. but to answer your question, I can only speak for myself, i'll be honest i originally became fascinated with pirahnas because of their gruesome eating style. Same fascination i have when watching a lion taking down a gazelle or an eagle swooping down on a rabbit. But upon keeping pirahnas as pets i started to care more about their health then watching a gruesome feeding. I have never feed my pirahnas a live red meat animal but you dont need to, to see their strength and power. I do feed them an occasional live goldfish but even that is revered hazardous to the pirahnas. But to sum it up, I enjoy pirahnas cause they add a sense of danger and beauty to the tank.














again good question Patriot


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

totally correct the world is full of animals that eat living things .
but they do it to survive not as a form of perverse enjoyment.
my point is that we dont need to feed these types of live food to piranha in order to keep them fit and well.
im sure that you know that piranha are as much scavenger as hunter probably more scavenger infact and therfore do not require the "hunt"
as part of there daily lives.
people will do what they want is a sad sad response where would we be if that was true of everybody.
if i were to for example to throw a rock through your car windshield would the reply i will do what i want make it ok?
feeding live animals for fun is wrong ..you know it and so do i.


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

that is pretty dumb analogy throwing a rock througha windshield. everyone knows that that is illegal. feeding your fish live things however is perfectly legal, safe, and fun to watch or else tons of people woudn't do it. everyone that says "i only feed my p's live goldfish once in a while as a treat" they still feed them live fish so either they enjoy watching it or they know their fish enjoy eating or both.


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

To be honest it really depends on personal preferences when it come to feeding live mice/rodents/fish/toads the list goes on. I believe those are the only diet in the wild which are acceptable however its different in captivity. Its really amazing how they chase feeders but it can be avoided which you mentioned, by only feeding them frozen foods but you can't prevent everyone to stop feeding mice its like asking michael jackson stop harassing children. Owners may disagree to your opinion and proceed without awareness of its maintanance afterwards or for just a heck of it. As for me the only live specimen that i have fed my Serrasalmus Manuelli is a "Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum" common name convict cichlid as dither fish and columbian tetras.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

sorry for maybe confusing you my issue is with feeding rodents more that for example goldfish.
mice and rats are a higher form of life as regards thinking process and nerve function than golds.and therfore in my opinion and aswell a that of common sense higher life forms i.e mammals will suffer much much more as their nerve function is very similar to ours and its very plausable that they would feel exactly the same sensation of agony as we ourselfes would feel if a piranha was to bite us.
is it legal to allow such suffering ?? i doubt it


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## JMurphy97 (Mar 23, 2005)

How about feeding them a live night crawler? Is that bad?


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

JMurphy97 said:


> How about feeding them a live night crawler? Is that bad?
> [snapback]983672[/snapback]​


not sure but if your worried then dont


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

Its definatley legal to feed a mouse to whatever the hell you want. when you buy it, it is yours. you could shove it up you ass if you wanted. and as far as feeding the rodents to p's goes. your acting like everyone in the hobby feeds mice to their fish. im sure that almost no one feeds their fish mice. they might have and realized that it wasn't such a good idea. But i think that you joining the forum just to bitch about the very few who do is very lame and stupid.

i know a lot of people when they got their p's started wondering. "hhmm what could i feed this bad boy that would be really cool." and i bet if that video wasn't there for them to get their jolly's off then a lot more people would feed them mice.

and about the "higher life forms" thing. humans are a higher life form than everything. that is a pretty big acheivment. i think we should be able to throw a mouse in a piranha tank as a reward! that justifies it for me. rodents are pest. they don't really contribute to anything so that is why lfs sell them to be food. im sure if people sold something like kittens as food. lol. people would be pissed off. but mice? come on.


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## sicklid-holic (Mar 25, 2005)

Just out of curiosity Patriot. Do have a pet mouse or rat or gerbil(gerber whatever its spelled). Then If you do, I dont blame you. But you need to be open minded and think that everyone does not think like you. 
I personally have Piranhas, Central American cichlids, African cichlids. I currently run a 125Gallon, another 125Gallon, 150 Gallon bow tank, and a 75Gallon.

I like all my fish, but I wont hesitate to pull one fish from another tank and feed it to my Red bellies. More likely not, because its better to get a store credit than waste on a feeding frenzy. Thats why there is goldfish a lot cheaper. and I also wont feed them mice or rats due to the gore(blood), hair, and all the mess to clean up, plus mess up the water quality. But if someone will do the cleaning for me, He'll Ill drop the fattest rat, mice or gerbil(gerber whatever its spelled). I could get my hands on.

Just my 2c We each and everyone has our own opinion and so do you.


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

I understand where you're going. You could try adressing this questions to the staff if this issue causing disturbance upon you


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## JMurphy97 (Mar 23, 2005)

No I'm not worried I'm just saying being as that it's a living animal and all. Is it ok with you? Or are you gonna cry and whine about it? Or maybe I need to make a video about it and show everyone.


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## john1634 (Mar 22, 2005)

patriot do u breed or keep any rodents? like i said i won't feed rodents to my p's, but if someone else does it i wouldn't have a problem with it. if i did i would probably think giving p's live fish would be wrong too. no matter which is dumber. and u said u had p's before did you ever give them feeders?
so basiclly how could u have a problem with feeding mice to pirahnas but not have a problem with giving them live fish


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

Do you fequent the hunter forums, fishing forums? People hunt for sport and fish for sport. I'm sure a deer is closer to a human than a mouse (I hope so anyway). I understand where you are coming from, but many piranha owners try to replicate their natural diet, and a wide diet is a healthy thing for these fish. I would agree with you if someone was feeding their piranha mice daily, but I'm 95% sure no one does that.


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## john1634 (Mar 22, 2005)

these are all great responses but really who actually thinks about whether or not it is wrong to feed their p's live food. i could give my p's any live food i want as long as it is good for them and easy to clean up . *rat, mouse, or what ever*


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## john1634 (Mar 22, 2005)

i am in live chat if anybody wants to chat


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

john1634 said:


> these are all great responses but really who actually thinks about whether or not it is wrong to feed their p's live food. i could give my p's any live food i want as long as it is good for them and easy to clean up . *rat, mouse, or what ever*
> [snapback]983722[/snapback]​


id like to thank the majority of members for responding to this debate in the polite and grown up manner intended .as i said at the start i dont want to cause any personal offence im just asking a serious question and hopefully getting polite and serious answers. i am impressed with this forum the wide range of knowledge is very impressive.
no i dont breed rats/mice !i dont breed dogs but i can still feel bad if i seen one get hurt or injured .
yes rodents are "vermin" and thats why we have humane methods of distruction(hopefully) and again i reitterate my point that piranhas health and well being are not affected should they not get a rat or mouse to tear apart infact possibly the opposide.
yes i have used feeders in the past all of which were very much smaller than my piranhas so they were taken out in one bite im maybe being a slight hipocrite but my issue is the use of mammals i.e rats and mice which ARE higher life forms and cant realistically be taken out in one bite not even by the biggest piranha and therfore suffer a slow and agonizing death for no other reason than voyurism.
im not a wining do gooder who would stop anybodys legal rights to carry out any act that they see fit all im trying to do is put over the point that i dont see any reason atall for the use of live mammals as food items for piranha .
how can people not see an issue with unessasary suffering? i asume the chosen victim struggles and probably squeals as its tore apart? and the argument that if "others want to do it its up to them " cuts no ice i personally think their are some issues with these people.
just because we have the power and ability to do something is not justification for doing it ,on such a platform civillised and humane society is formed.

im sorry if im hitting a raw nerve with members but as the forum says this is piranha discussion!
maybe startin a for and against poll would be interesting


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## Kilohead36 (Feb 11, 2004)

First of all I would like to say that this discussion was interesting to say the least. The thought of the idea of feeding my fish a mouse or pinkie has come across but I am reluctant to because of the mess it would make.. Perhaps If I had a shoal where it would make short work of the it then I might do it. However, as a staple diet for my fish perhaps not. What this really boils down to is people do things in life that people dont necessarily agree with like plastic surgery, piercing, tattoo's.etc.. Its theyre choice.!
This is a hobby and like in all hobbies there will be a some that participate in acts that we might not necessarily support or agree but wont condemn. To each their own..!
Honestly speaking you would come across a lot better if the first post you made as a new member wasnt on this subject. It appears and seems that you joined just to make a point and have no interest in the hobby. I am hopeful that you stick around and be a member who can contribute to this fine board..With that said.. I am finished..


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

People get piranha's for different reasons: some just to watch them rip up live animals, others to enjoy them for what they are, and yet others as a combination of both.

Personally, I don't like the feeding of rodents (or oversized live fish that can't be consumed entirely, for that matter) either, as it serve no purpose whatsoever other than entertainment: they don't have any nutritional advantages over other food items (so dietary arguments are void), it's messy, and as said, other than entertainment there's no reason why to do it at all.
But if people want to do so, it's their choice: I don't agree with it, but it's not my decision - pointing fingers and saying its pointless killing that needs to be ended never stopped anyone from doing it, so its best to educate why it serves no purpose: if people then still decide to do it, well.... it's their choice, and nothing we can do about it.

I do feed live fish, as my Manueli only accepts shrimp and live fish: I want to diversify his diet as much as possible, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of options. But as soon as he accepts other types of food (questionable, but still...), I'll stop feeding him live food, as there's always a risk of introducing diseases/parasites and spending money I could spend in better ways.
My Reds haven't seen a feeder in 18 months, and it didn't change them one bit...

One more thing: addressing this to Staff is a waste of time: people can do what they want, wheter we like it or not. We can't decide what others can and cannot do.
Wheter you watch them is up to you. Also, wheter you, or anyone else, watches them or not won't alter reality: as long as piranha's (and other predators) are kept as pets, this will always continue to happen.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

bart3lz said:


> not to sound smart but have you gone to the snake forums and asked them also to stop feeding mice to their snakes?
> [snapback]983565[/snapback]​










dam what a dum comment
i have snakes and piranha's and i do feed my snakes mice
cause thats what they eat
but i dont feed live i feed frozen/thawed 
and my p's eat frozen shrimp or silversides


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

in reply to kilohead36 i would say that i have had piranha for many years and have a great interest in these and other powerfull fish.
if my first input into this forum has proved to be controversal then i make no apoligies .if anything i think the popularity of this particular thread has proven this subject has great educational potential.the fact that judazzz roughly supports my point must give a certain weight to it.
if the people reading this have thought a little more about the actions of other members i will consider my first thread a success.
im not a overnight member and hopfully i can contribute alot more in the future.


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## spec-v (Feb 27, 2005)

Dr. Green said:


> bart3lz said:
> 
> 
> > not to sound smart but have you gone to the snake forums and asked them also to stop feeding mice to their snakes?
> ...










I feed my snakes frozen as well but when my little ball python would't eat the frozen pinkie, in the fish tank it went. The bottom line is people will do what they want with their fish I choose not to feed live, so do alot of other members but the bottom line is piranhas are predators par excellence and that is what attracts people to the fish at first then we learn what a truly amazing creature they are this site has been instrumental in teaching people the wonders of piranhas as well a allowing people to make friends just some advice


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## dave mcg (Jul 15, 2004)

hats off to u patriot uv made quite a debut....lol


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## zrreber (Mar 8, 2005)

i think your tree huggin ass should find a different site to post stuff on...... not everyone gets piranhas to watch them tear up animals, some like to watch them tear up animals....true. But some like to watch them tear up animals and like to watch them grow from juvies into adults and show color and such........Dont come on a site that you have no reason to be in besides harp on all of us for being "bad people" or whatever for having a hobby. we like fish, you like trees. keep of our backs and we will keep of yours. you didnt see none of us get on one of your sites and critisize you about what you do in your life. so all i ask is for you to please keep your opinions to yourself unless someone asks on your input on having a piranha......


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

zrreber said:


> i think your tree huggin ass should find a different site to post stuff on...... not everyone gets piranhas to watch them tear up animals, some like to watch them tear up animals....true. But some like to watch them tear up animals and like to watch them grow from juvies into adults and show color and such........Dont come on a site that you have no reason to be in besides harp on all of us for being "bad people" or whatever for having a hobby. we like fish, you like trees. keep of our backs and we will keep of yours. you didnt see none of us get on one of your sites and critisize you about what you do in your life. so all i ask is for you to please keep your opinions to yourself unless someone asks on your input on having a piranha......
> [snapback]983993[/snapback]​


Did you even read the entire thread?








I guess not, because you wouldn't have posted that dumb rant...

He just wanted to ask about our opinions, which, last time I checked, is still allowed on this site. Wheter its a hot topic is irrelevant, and so is the fact that it is one of his first posts here.
He's not getting on anyone's back, except on those that can't deal with criticism, and those that are incapable of discussing hot topics and/or things they take for granted (discussing it in a mature way) - and that says indefinitely more about those people that piss and moan about people asking those questions than about those that ask them.
So look please in the mirror before pointing fingers, will ya...

One more thing:
No one is required to keep his opinions to himself unless asked: otherwise we might as well pull the plug on this site and tell y'all to find a new on-line home...
And even if it was the case, you for sure are not a part of the group of people that decide who is and who isn't allowed to post questions (nor is any other member...)


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

patriot said:


> in reply to kilohead36 i would say that i have had piranha for many years and have a great interest in these and other powerfull fish.
> if my first input into this forum has proved to be controversal then i make no apoligies .if anything i think the popularity of this particular thread has proven this subject has great educational potential.the fact that judazzz roughly supports my point must give a certain weight to it.
> if the people reading this have thought a little more about the actions of other members i will consider my first thread a success.
> im not a overnight member and hopfully i can contribute alot more in the future.
> [snapback]983942[/snapback]​


Welcome to the site...its always good to get conflicting points of view. I myself have never try this feeding (mouse) but yeah I have thought about once they (my reds) get older...so they would be able to eat the entire mouse instead of just wounding it. I love all types of animals. I have or have had in the past: ferrets, pit bulls, other dogs, many cats, snakes, lizards, hamsters, sugar glider, fresh water and salt water setups...so I do feel remorse for animals, but like I said in my earlier post I'd like to try and replicate their natural diet as close as I can. Thanks for your input and please stick around to join other discussions


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Dawgnutz said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > in reply to kilohead36 i would say that i have had piranha for many years and have a great interest in these and other powerfull fish.
> ...


Yes, now we know that you are a piranha hobbyist yourself, so stick around.


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

> i think your tree huggin ass should find a different site to post stuff on......
> 
> heh...damn straight!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

C.D. said:


> > i think your tree huggin ass should find a different site to post stuff on......
> 
> 
> heh...damn straight!
> [snapback]984284[/snapback]​


Just because he has different ideas makes him a tree hugger that is not welcome here?








How simple- and narrowminded can you get







Thank god it's not people like you that run this site: it would have been destroyed long ago.

If stupidity would hurt, I bet you guys would be screaming all day long...


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> C.D. said:
> 
> 
> > > i think your tree huggin ass should find a different site to post stuff on......
> ...


Judazz, you are a GREAT guy...





















and a funny one at that


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## fredweezy (May 27, 2004)

Food chain....


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Not another POLL.









I agree with the perverse remark, it is perverse to _enjoy_ watching something get eaten. But then humans by nature tend to be that way. _But lumping us all into that category_ for having piranhas is just as wrong and that I find perverse as well.


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

i am not a stupid person. something that is very stupid though, is to search the net for a piranha website, join the forum so you can bitch about an issue that isn't even an issue. that kind of person needs to get a life and worry about the millions of bigger issues.

maybe it was a little out of line to call him a tree hugging hippee but he is making a big deal out of a mouse video. and lableing the piranha hobbyists as cruel and perverse.

everyone already knows that feeding mice is just a hassle. they already knew that. so why does someone that doesn't even have piranhas or mice need to join the forum just so they can state the obvious and start trouble.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

C.D. said:


> i am not a stupid person. something that is very stupid though, is to search the net for a piranha website, join the forum so you can bitch about an issue that isn't even an issue. that kind of person needs to get a life and worry about the millions of bigger issues.
> 
> maybe it was a little out of line to call him a tree hugging hippee but he is making a big deal out of a mouse video. and lableing the piranha hobbyists as cruel and perverse.
> 
> ...


Hey, everyone knows piranha's are fish eaters, and yet 20% of the posts in this forum are about the possibility piranha tank mates: I guess we should restrict those people from asking questions as well? And while we're at it, I guess we should IP-block all people that don't keep piranha's as well, shouldn't we - all they do is starting trouble by asking questions that make you feel attacked, so what's the point of keeping them here?

Who are you to tell what is important and what is not? Maybe to the thread starter it is a big deal... maybe he keeps piranha's for a decade but still fundamentally opposes feeding live rodents. Maybe he is a newcomer to the piranha hobby, but has serious objections against live feedings. So f'n what? I am against those practices, and many others here think the samwe - does that make us hippies? Does that make us lesser fish keepers? Does that restrict our right to own piranha's? Does that mean we keep piranha's for the wrong reasons? Does that limit our right to post questions or to start discussions about issues you (and others) obviously can't handle, as you immedeately feel personally attacked?
Maybe some, maybe many here think that the things that matter to you are no more than insigificant bullshit - does that matter? Does it even matter what people think is important? Is that the scope of this site?

No, it doesn't matter: this is a discussion forum, and if you don't know what that means, look it up in the dictionary.
You don't even know who or what you're talking about, and yet you deem it necessary to point your judgemental litte finger and tell others what is right and wrong, what is acceptable to say and what is not. You don't like the question, so your mind comes to the conclusion the topic starter joined this site only to start trouble, eh?

This is a forum, and everyone's allowed to post questions they want to ask. No need to ask Mr. Judgemental or Mr. EasilySteppedOnHisDick for his blessing first: people ask questions for themselves, not to please or amuse others: questions are asked to learn, to get answers, to solve problems, to exchange ideas, experiences, tips and tricks: not to please others.
That's the way we conduct our business here at PFury, and if you don't like it that way, there's plenty of alternatives to go to...


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

C.D. said:


> i am not a stupid person. something that is very stupid though, is to search the net for a piranha website, join the forum so you can bitch about an issue that isn't even an issue. that kind of person needs to get a life and worry about the millions of bigger issues.
> 
> maybe it was a little out of line to call him a tree hugging hippee but he is making a big deal out of a mouse video. and lableing the piranha hobbyists as cruel and perverse.
> 
> ...


when did i say that i havent got piranhas? must be reply 32 which says that i have! atleast you got it right about not having mice 50% correct.

i dont know much about you and i always think its rude to assume but unless you have kept preditory fish for over 20 years like myself maybe you should not assume that im a total newbie to piranha and get all defensive.

your right about me searching onto this site but after browsing through its many pages i felt that the origional POLITE question deserved being asked as in the whole time i have kept these fish and others i have never seen the need for live mammal feeding nor the need to make videos of what in MY opinion is barbaric treatment.

as for causing trouble....maybe ..but just in the heads of those who are slightly challenged in the I.Q department the rest of the comments have been constructive and make no assumptions....because that would be a silly thing to do.

actually i know a few hippies and those who could be discribed as "tree huggers" but iv never met one yet who keeps piranha maybe the odd goldfish to talk to when stoned.

truley i am impressed with the commitment and range of knowlege available on this site and it does great things for the reputation of a very misunderstood fish but as in all good things theres a down side and its the intelectually challenged(hello)..shame

as your so good at working me out can you tell me what im having for dinner tonight? or dosent your crystal ball stretch that far.

the rest.....judazzz answered it better that i ever could


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

wouldn't a more effective way to try and get some kind of action out of this would be to pm members who you *know* feed their piranhas rats/mice and such. almost everyone who has posted in this thread say they don't feed their ps that. i mean if thats what you're concerned with.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

phishie said:


> wouldn't a more effective way to try and get some kind of action out of this would be to pm members who you *know* feed their piranhas rats/mice and such. almost everyone who has posted in this thread say they don't feed their ps that. i mean if thats what you're concerned with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im not here to harasse individual members i only wanted to gain the view points of others and enter into a debate .if members are swayed away from live rodent feeding by reading this tread then great . but at the end of the day im not here to chase people via pm's 
if i hadnt posted you would have missed out on this hot thread..lol :laugh:


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

patriot said:


> C.D. said:
> 
> 
> > i am not a stupid person. something that is very stupid though, is to search the net for a piranha website, join the forum so you can bitch about an issue that isn't even an issue. that kind of person needs to get a life and worry about the millions of bigger issues.
> ...


Since you like the site please be sure to vote :laugh: All jokes aside though... Some people don't understand that you can have a friendly argument. Different views on topics is how better ideas are created.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Patriot-
In the time that I have been a member at this site, I have never seen a thread on the topic of "I get a kick out of seeing live things suffer!"

While I admit there are the occasional 'people' that keep piranha to watch them tear into live critters, the vast majority of piranha keepers are dedicated, respectable individuals that are genuinely interested in the fish they keep.
____________________________________________________________________
Here's an analogy:

In the same respect, I know many many people that own box cutters knives.
They use them to open taped boxes.
They use them to cut string.
They use them for a miriad of household and commercial duties.

HOWEVER, on September 11 a few years ago, a small group of these 'Box cutter knife owners' decided to use their utensils in a most ghastly manner and caused the death of thousands of Americans. 
I must believe that the huge majority of 'box cutter knife owners' were horrified by this.
____________________________________________________________________

Your question was delivered with a certain level of respect and taste... and that is appreciated.
Make every attempt to not judge the overwhelming vast majority on a few individuals.


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

Man you lost me with the 9/11 comparsion to a mouse feeding







Call me stupid or whatever...but I just don't get it


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Dawgnutz said:


> Man you lost me with the 9/11 comparsion to a mouse feeding
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was an analogy, my man... I thought it was pretty straightforward...
I went back, however, and separated the analogy from the rest of the piece and even labeled it "Analogy" just to decrease any possible confusion.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

Piranha_man said:


> Patriot-
> In the time that I have been a member at this site, I have never seen a thread on the topic of "I get a kick out of seeing live things suffer!"
> 
> While I admit there are the occasional 'people' that keep piranha to watch them tear into live critters, the vast majority of piranha keepers are dedicated, respectable individuals that are genuinely interested in the fish they keep.
> ...


the whole box cutter reply has blown me away ..as a "tree hugging hippie" may i ask the number of your dealer its good stuff man....joke!

i hope iv not given the impression that im getting at all piranha owners because that would be hypocritical of me im just raising a personal issue that i have with certain piranha owners and inviting them to debate the pros and cons of what I consider to be a cruel and unessasary.
ok iv expressed my views strongly but please dont feel that im on some kind of crusade


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I really thought the analogy was good... but nobody seems to be getting it.
For those who just don't seem to grasp it, allow me to briefly explain:

Lots of people own piranha.
A small minority have them for the wrong reason and 'use' them to engage in dastardly deeds.

Lots of people own box knives.
A small minority have them for the wrong reason and 'use' them to engage in dastardly deeds.

(Capische?)


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

I got it now


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I am always amazed at the reaction of some of the members to questions or statements like this. I think patriot has been nothing but polite to the members here and has been mainly rewarded by some good conversation. However, there are a few that take matters like this as a personal attack....I dont ever see it that way. As most people on this site, I keep these fish for an entirely different reason and do not feed live foods (but I have used an occasional feeders in the past). I get more enjoyment out of seeing my fish devour a piece of thawed catfish filet or talipia. I have never watched the videos because it just doesnt interest me.

I think you will find that the longer a person remains on this site, the better care they take of their fish...and that includes feeding. I would be willing to bet that there are many members that fed live when coming to this site who now see it as a detriment to the health of their fish and therefore have changed what and how they feed their fish.


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## dab424s (Mar 21, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I am always amazed at the reaction of some of the members to questions or statements like this. I think patriot has been nothing but polite to the members here and has been mainly rewarded by some good conversation. However, there are a few that take matters like this as a personal attack....I dont ever see it that way. As most people on this site, I keep these fish for an entirely different reason and do not feed live foods (but I have used an occasional feeders in the past). I get more enjoyment out of seeing my fish devour a piece of thawed catfish filet or talipia. I have never watched the videos because it just doesnt interest me.
> 
> I think you will find that the longer a person remains on this site, the better care they take of their fish...and that includes feeding. I would be willing to bet that there are many members that fed live when coming to this site who now see it as a detriment to the health of their fish and therefore have changed what and how they feed their fish.
> [snapback]985995[/snapback]​


Tis the Truth


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I've got a better metaphor: You're all acting like a bunch of hungry piranhas with a pacu.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I think for the most part the question was delivered and answered tastefully.









Now, if you'll excuse me, I am going to go toss a fillet to my pygos...


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Here's a poll that addresses this issue on the site patriot. Enjoy.

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...hl=live+feeding


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## BrandNew (Mar 8, 2005)

I once fed my piranhas one of my next door neighbours baby rabbits. (he knew i did his had just given birth to 2 rabbits) that was cool but it made aload of mess. The piranhas purpose in life is to scavange off other animals kills. well i feel i've liberated my piranhas......no more dirty leftovers. they get goldfish, lizards, rabbits, mice and one day i hope to try a kitten. So in responce to your question i have my piranhas for the enjoyment of watching them. But i also like the bonus of watching them rip other living things to pieces.

have fun patriot!


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## stubbys (Feb 21, 2005)

It would be interesting to hear Piranha Boy`s views on this!


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

BrandNew said:


> I once fed my piranhas one of my next door neighbours baby rabbits. (he knew i did his had just given birth to 2 rabbits) that was cool but it made aload of mess. The piranhas purpose in life is to scavange off other animals kills. well i feel i've liberated my piranhas......no more dirty leftovers. they get goldfish, lizards, rabbits, mice and one day i hope to try a kitten. So in responce to your question i have my piranhas for the enjoyment of watching them. But i also like the bonus of watching them rip other living things to pieces.
> 
> have fun patriot!
> [snapback]986087[/snapback]​


Man a kitten? In the future I can already see a reward being offered for your where abouts and arrest.


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## BrandNew (Mar 8, 2005)

ok, ok i was kidding about the kitten. but seriosusly this site is called piranha FURY!!! hardly mirrors tranquility of a small piece of chicken breast floating around. The way i see it is. when i see these mice in the shop they are doomed. doomed to be eaten by a snake, spider whatever. so whats wrong with them being fed to a piranha. Would you like the same f*cking piece of meat everyday.

VARIATION IS THE ANSWER!!!


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

BrandNew said:


> ok, ok i was kidding about the kitten. but seriosusly this site is called piranha FURY!!! hardly mirrors tranquility of a small piece of chicken breast floating around. The way i see it is. when i see these mice in the shop they are doomed. doomed to be eaten by a snake, spider whatever. so whats wrong with them being fed to a piranha. Would you like the same f*cking piece of meat everyday.
> 
> VARIATION IS THE ANSWER!!!
> [snapback]986138[/snapback]​


I would not let the name fool you BrandNew.....and variation is not the key, a healthy diet is. These fish are adapted to eat white fish in the wild and that is what their diet should consist of....not goldfish, lizards, rabbits and mice. They would never see any of this in thier diet in the wild, so it is uninformed to feed them this in captivity. If you want healthy fish you should be feeding them foods their body has evolved to eat.


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## Dawgnutz (Mar 2, 2005)

BrandNew said:


> ok, ok i was kidding about the kitten. but seriosusly this site is called piranha FURY!!! hardly mirrors tranquility of a small piece of chicken breast floating around. The way i see it is. when i see these mice in the shop they are doomed. doomed to be eaten by a snake, spider whatever. so whats wrong with them being fed to a piranha. Would you like the same f*cking piece of meat everyday.
> 
> VARIATION IS THE ANSWER!!!
> [snapback]986138[/snapback]​


Same piece of meat?







My reds diet:
1) Small krill
2) Large krill
3) Raw Shelled Shrimp
4) Crawfish Tails
5) Tilapia
6) Nightcrawlers\ Earthworms\ Redworms
7) Squid
8) Ghost Shrimp
9) Mollies maybe once a month


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## Nethius (Feb 23, 2003)

patriot said:


> as a new visitor/member to this forum i dont want to offend anybody but please could somebody explain what possible pleasure can be gained from watching a murderous fish tear body parts from a living mouse or rat?


The same as feeding a feeder fish. Which I read you've done.



> whether this is natural or not is no excuse as many other forms of feeding are available which dont cause unessasary suffering.


I doubt anyone is making excuses. I would also say that it is the aggression of the piranha that they enjoy, not the suffering of another animal



> the desire to watch another living creature suffering raises a thousand questions about the individuals who carry out these acts.


You don't think a statement like that is goiding to piss people off?



> there is no need! please stop


Regardless of need, no one (including you) will be able to stop it



> i ask this respectfully and in no way wish to upset individual members


You would have to know a topic like this would upset members

I myself will feed feeders, not mammals. But I don't judge the people that do, it is their business, not mine.

On most sites this would be considered trolling


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

1, yes i have fed feeder fish to piranha but i also said that the feeders in question were much smaller that the reds they were fed to. example..smallest red i have is 10 inches the feeders in question were black mollys i honestly believe they were hit like a freight train and on no account could comparing the slow death of a rodent to the instantaious death of a molly be of equal porportions.

2, hungry piranha feed just as hard and fast on white bait as they do on a rodent not to mention the fact that white bait is way more suitable .if aggression is your reason for watching this spectacle i point you to item 3 below.

3, now were into if the cap fits wear it territory..if the "raises a thousand questions" bit "pisses you off" maybe you sould ask yourself why? you feeling bad cos somebody dares to make a point you dont like? its called free speech and exchange of views !moderators dont seem to mind so what makes you special?.

4,correct atlast ..i cant stop it but it dont stop me making my views known and ASKING. OR IS THAT NOT ALLOWED?.

5, TROLLING..i had to look this word up and i gather it means starting arguements.
maybe you consider this tread to be trolling but its nothing of the sort .i have been keeping piranhas for a long time and in the spirit of piranha fury shared with respect my view point i cant impose it on you i can only ask .and you have the absolute right to say no.but aslong as i and you have the forum to put over our individual points of view i will ask and say what i feel.

finally iv had to do some research to find the meaning of trolling .how would you like to research the word POLITE for me? then we have both learned something today.......only ASKING


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Patriot, there's always a few immature people that are gonna put you down no matter what, a fine example is stubby's effort to knock me by calling me 'Piranha boy.'
These immature posts made by the ignorant only make me laugh.


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## b-unit34 (Apr 1, 2005)

Yes, feeding piranhas rats or mice is mean and cruel. But it is fricken awsome


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

patriot said:


> 4,correct atlast ..i cant stop it but it dont stop me making my views known and ASKING. OR IS THAT NOT ALLOWED?.
> 
> [snapback]986506[/snapback]​


"please stop" is not so much "making your views known" as it is pissing people off. (not reffering to myself however)


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

phishie said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > 4,correct atlast ..i cant stop it but it dont stop me making my views known and ASKING. OR IS THAT NOT ALLOWED?.
> ...


if id said STOP NOW! then id agree with you. the very few members who do find 
" PLEASE STOP" offensive im sorry for upsetting you..and i hope the anger managment counciling works out.
i wish the angry members of this site would see my question and debate for what it is and not turn this thread into a something it is not.
if you feel threatened by the thread and not able to respond in a inteligent way please would you not reply. theres some videos do watch instead in another forum.

the rest of you guys i offer my respect and thanks for making this thread into such a great read


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

this thread has surved its purpose. feeding rodents to your p's is not good but people will do it anyways. we know its not good for them. this thread is just turning into an argument thread.


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## mauls (Mar 25, 2004)

patriot u a Vegetarian?


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

C.D. said:


> this thread has surved its purpose. feeding rodents to your p's is not good but people will do it anyways. we know its not good for them. this thread is just turning into an argument thread.
> [snapback]986678[/snapback]​


totally correct this thread is turning into an arguement.

with that in mind i offer this to all you mr angrys out there.....lets get away from the whos pissing who off stuff.
iv laid my point on the table clear as day. show me where im wrong! point out the reasons that you should feed rodents to piranha. im comfortable in my argument iv had 20 years to refine it. but if you can show me the error of my ways im always willing to take information from a fellow aquarist..

if there is no takers i think we should take c.d s advise and put this thread to bed.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

patriot said:


> phishie said:
> 
> 
> > patriot said:
> ...


I think this has been a good thread and a good conversation....not with standing the ignorant remarks.

Opinions and comments are always welcome here.....Lets not forget that. If you cant see the value in Patriots remarks then you may want to review why you keep these fish, or anyother for that matter. He asked a legitimate question...please give him the respect he deserves and look for an intelligent response......


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

im not against live foods being used just against useing dirty ass sh*t that could hurt

your fish with disease or arnt very nutritional, or just a dam mess to clean up, thats why i havent

used a live food in so long. when ever i get around to settin up a quaratine tank then ill use the

occassional live fish (no nasty ass gold fish) every now and then but no mice, just casue i think it

would be to messy, and doesnt seem right, not much compition or sport to it for the fish.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

MR.FREEZ said:


> im not against live foods being used just against useing dirty ass sh*t that could hurt
> 
> your fish with disease or arnt very nutritional, or just a dam mess to clean up, thats why i havent
> 
> ...


"sport" since when did a piranha need sport .natts are underwater clean up crews they dont do sport ..no 10 second head starts no queensbury rules .your looking after a instinctive eating machine preprogrammed to take out the trash.
we decide what it eats we set the rules of engagement


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## spec-v (Feb 27, 2005)

bottom line is people will do what they want with there fish everyone is entitled to there opinion


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

How is feeding mice to your p's any different than us eating beef?

Beef isn't the healthiest diet for us, especially in forms like hamburger. And according to your views a cow is a higher life form, and it definitely sees as much, if not more pain, than a mouse being eaten by p's.

Kinda hypocritical to come down on a small group of people (piranha owners) when you belong to a group that does the same thing. (humans as a whole)


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

i am not personally offended by "please stop," and i happen to be very interested in this thread, i was just offering a possible explanation as to why some people might not take kindly to the post. (sounded kinda preachy) but hey its an interesting topic anyway. so don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to pick a fight over symantics, and thank you for your original post.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> How is feeding mice to your p's any different than us eating beef?
> 
> Beef isn't the healthiest diet for us, especially in forms like hamburger. And according to your views a cow is a higher life form, and it definitely sees as much, if not more pain, than a mouse being eaten by p's.
> 
> ...


if this was a bovine site then maybe i would argue on behalf of the cow.
just because im part of the human race dosnt mean im responsable for everthing thats done by people so i dont understand your hypocritical comment.

but thanks for your reply


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

phishie said:


> i am not personally offended by "please stop," and i happen to be very interested in this thread, i was just offering a possible explanation as to why some people might not take kindly to the post. (sounded kinda preachy) but hey its an interesting topic anyway. so don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to pick a fight over symantics, and thank you for your original post.:nod:
> [snapback]986907[/snapback]​


thanks


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

patriot said:


> just because im part of the human race dosnt mean im responsable for everthing thats done by people so i dont understand your hypocritical comment.
> [snapback]986926[/snapback]​


With that being said, just because we keep p's doesn't make us responsible for everything other Piranha keepers do.


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## spec-v (Feb 27, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > just because im part of the human race dosnt mean im responsable for everthing thats done by people so i dont understand your hypocritical comment.
> ...


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > just because im part of the human race dosnt mean im responsable for everthing thats done by people so i dont understand your hypocritical comment.
> ...


absolutly not i cant agree with you more.
i asked for reasons why feeding live rodents to piranha was ok and gave my point of view against .if you dont use live rodents then thats fine great infact and you have absolutly no responsability .
im not getting on your back and nobody is forcing you to read and reply to this thread.


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

spec-v said:


> scrappydoo said:
> 
> 
> > patriot said:
> ...


that would be some massive ownage.

but patriot is right, its really not going out for individual people and blaming all piranha owners, its more of a friendly debate, an interesting one at that.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

im here to be convinced.
throwing stuff about cows /humans and whatever still cant make it right
but i very much appreciate your debate








and im not a troll just a fellow fishkeeper exchanging views


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Here's from your initial post


patriot said:


> there is no need! please stop.
> [snapback]983425[/snapback]​


You're asking us to stop doing something that a very small minority of people here actually do. It's exactly the same as going to a canine forum and asking them to stop fighting dogs.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> Here's from your initial post
> 
> 
> patriot said:
> ...


i suppose it is the same as asking a canine forum to stop fighting dogs...whats your point?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

patriot said:


> as a new visitor/member to this forum i dont want to offend anybody but please could somebody explain what possible pleasure can be gained from watching a murderous fish tear body parts from a living mouse or rat?
> whether this is natural or not is no excuse as many other forms of feeding are available which dont cause unessasary suffering.
> the desire to watch another living creature suffering raises a thousand questions about the individuals who carry out these acts .there is no need! please stop.
> 
> ...


the same pleasure i get from shooting birds out of the sky














im talking sh*t i havent fed my p's rats yet, but i will when i get around to it, and can sit down and enoy the whole show..now can i ask you a questiong, whats the diffrence when feeding a snake a live rat and they get thier whole body broken then swallowed alive..


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> Here's from your initial post
> 
> 
> patriot said:
> ...


thats what i thought, it sounded preachy, thats why people have the reaction to it that they do.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

Liquid said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > as a new visitor/member to this forum i dont want to offend anybody but please could somebody explain what possible pleasure can be gained from watching a murderous fish tear body parts from a living mouse or rat?
> ...


id love to give you a informed answer on that. but i just dont know enough about snakes to say whether they require live food or not.
but i do know piranhas dont and thats the whole basis of my arguement.
im sorry if the please stop thing sounded preachy that was not my intention


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

patriot said:


> Liquid said:
> 
> 
> > patriot said:
> ...


most snakes eat mice,rats,frogs ect..they have to die somehow and waiting around for them to do it from old age might starve the snake..you seem cool with good intentions, but to me thers no diffrence, mice have to die a painfull death in order for snakes to survive, sure with p's you have less cruel options, but who cares..i dont..if feeding time makes you squirm, i'd find anouther hobby or other fish other then p's


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

this same issue is applicable in law. you can't kill someone on death row with cruel and unusual punishment, yet you can with injection, gas chamber etc. (or at least killing someone in that matter isn't viewed as "cruel")

killing a rat when it is unnessacary or unusually cruel "isn't right" but when it needs to happen, it does.

my opnion is that i want what is best for my ps, and i feel that feeding them rats is not good for them (or me, that crap's hard to clean) if rats were good for my ps i would feed them.


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

Liquid said:


> patriot said:
> 
> 
> > Liquid said:
> ...


cos a snake has to do it then so can we ? is that your argument?
bears sh*t in the woods so why did we build toilets? answer .....cos we can.

bit late to get out of the hobby after 20 years lol.

the whole point of your argument seems to be"who cares..i dont"
thats great i cant change that ,same as you cant change me
but if i may approach from a different angle..is the poor quality of the feeding along with the mess not enough ?


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## patriot (Apr 17, 2005)

phishie said:


> this same issue is applicable in law. you can't kill someone on death row with cruel and unusual punishment, yet you can with injection, gas chamber etc. (or at least killing someone in that matter isn't viewed as "cruel")
> 
> killing a rat when it is unnessacary or unusually cruel "isn't right" but when it needs to happen, it does.
> 
> ...


you know it isnt right but you would do it if it was good for your piranhas?
wow to comprimise your ethics for the sake of your fish when there is so many other options im blown away


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## phishie (Sep 22, 2004)

patriot said:


> wow to comprimise your ethics for the sake of your fish *when there is so many other options *im blown away
> [snapback]987020[/snapback]​


options? lets say there were not other options to feed p's, just mice, or nothing. i'm saying, if the most beneficial and best thing for my p's WERE mice, i would do it, because i would want my p's to be healthy, happy etc. that is if it were natural, as in they eat mostly rats in the wild. as rats are bad for my fish, i do not. i don't even feed them feeders as they can be risky, disease and such.


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## Nethius (Feb 23, 2003)

patriot said:


> 1, yes i have fed feeder fish to piranha but i also said that the feeders in question were much smaller that the reds they were fed to. example..smallest red i have is 10 inches the feeders in question were black mollys i honestly believe they were hit like a freight train and on no account could comparing the slow death of a rodent to the instantaious death of a molly be of equal porportions.


I was only answeringyour question



> 2, hungry piranha feed just as hard and fast on white bait as they do on a rodent not to mention the fact that white bait is way more suitable .if aggression is your reason for watching this spectacle i point you to item 3 below.


Point?



> 3, now were into if the cap fits wear it territory..if the "raises a thousand questions" bit "pisses you off" maybe you sould ask yourself why? you feeling bad cos somebody dares to make a point you dont like? its called free speech and exchange of views !moderators dont seem to mind so what makes you special?.


Why are you using quotes when refering to me, and I never said the things you quoted? That is very dishonest. I never said it pisses me off, I said a statement like that will piss people off. I think you should ask yourself why you came here to try to piss people off with one of your very fist posts?



> 4,correct atlast ..i cant stop it but it dont stop me making my views known and ASKING. OR IS THAT NOT ALLOWED?.


Asking allowed, you were not only asking



> 5, TROLLING..i had to look this word up and i gather it means starting arguements.
> maybe you consider this tread to be trolling but its nothing of the sort .i have been keeping piranhas for a long time and in the spirit of piranha fury shared with respect my view point i cant impose it on you i can only ask .and you have the absolute right to say no.but aslong as i and you have the forum to put over our individual points of view i will ask and say what i feel.


If you had been here for a while, I would not consider it trolling, but since you only signed up to start such an arguement, to me is trolling.



> finally iv had to do some research to find the meaning of trolling .how would you like to research the word POLITE for me? then we have both learned something today.......only ASKING


PLease show me where i was not being polite... I was not asking what make you so special was I? You answer in very condinsending manners, quoting words that people never said, putting words in peoples mouths... I do not consider that polite.

EDIT:

Oh my, I usually wouldn't do this, but had to. Look at the PM i recieved from this patriot guy...



> thanks for your informative responces to the rodent thread..lol
> hope you enjoy the reply


patiot you need to grow up!!! I think you take the bait for most immature member.

Mods, I really don't understand why you let this guy post? MOst sites i frequent would have banned him long ago. All he is trying to do is start fights. And that is even more obvious with his snarky little PM to me. And he considers that being polite?


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Patriot, as I stated before, I think you addressed this subject with respect and taste.
I have not been a member of this site for a very long time, but have been a member of similar sites... (This is my third fish site).

There is always arguement within forums, granted. Within groups of people with similar interests (Such as this) there are always a small group of people that just 'Don't get it.'

Obviously with a fish like piranha, there will be an attraction from those that view the fish as a 'Tool' to engage in their lust for watching living things suffer.
I have become disturbingly aware that there are basically 2 kinds of piranha keepers:

1.) Those that have interest in the fish and therefore keep them.
2.) Those that have a lust for the viewing of suffering and therefore keep piranha... a fish that is capable of supplying them with the vehicle to view such.

Neither you nor I are going to change this with a few posts.
I believe it would take years of psychiatric help for these individuals.


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

Piranha_man said:


> Patriot, as I stated before, I think you addressed this subject with respect and taste.
> I have not been a member of this site for a very long time, but have been a member of similar sites... (This is my third fish site).
> 
> There is always arguement within forums, granted. Within groups of people with similar interests (Such as this) there are always a small group of people that just 'Don't get it.'
> ...


I recommend this be the statement of the year. well put

If you post after this, you must not understand it and can't accept it. If so you fit in category 3 (not mentioned in the above qoute). Those are people who live for themselves and those close to themselves, and noone else. They are unaccepting of things that aren't the way they want them, therefore they humor everyones opinion only to find something wrong w/ it to tear it down.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The official scientific alimentary diet of piranhas from larvae to adult is as follows:

microorganisms, plant parts, fins, chunks of fish, whole fish and parts of animals (ie; mammals) for P. cariba, nattereri and piraya. Eating a rodent or chicken is equivilient to what a fish eats in the wild. However, having said that, it is unnecessary and unethical to feed these things if the drive behind it is pleasure and not nutrition for the fishes.

I think this topic has served its purpose. And time for a







Anyone disagree?


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)




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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Piranha_man said:


> Patriot, as I stated before, I think you addressed this subject with respect and taste.
> I have not been a member of this site for a very long time, but have been a member of similar sites... (This is my third fish site).
> 
> There is always arguement within forums, granted. Within groups of people with similar interests (Such as this) there are always a small group of people that just 'Don't get it.'
> ...


Some people are both , one, or none of your piranha owner characteristics. It's not that some people just "Don't Get it"; it's that they don't agree with your point of view. At this point I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.....other than this is how I keep my fish and you should all do it this way too..........or you need "psychiatric help ". I would say that this thread has sufficiently









I understand your inquiry about feeding mammals to p's....most here don't do it.....I don't do it.


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## Nethius (Feb 23, 2003)

I agree with you Azeral.

Also traumatic said, "They are unaccepting of things that aren't the way they want them" I for one see both sides, and except both sides. If you say people that don't agree with you are "unaccepting" then I would have to place you in that category.


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## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)




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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Ok.....since so many what this closed I will close it.

Interesting read though.


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