# Spilo shoal?



## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

I'm looking into the option of going with a Spilo shoal in my 150 gal. when I get the money. I want something different than pygo's and preferably more than one fish in that tank, so I wanted to know the opinion of any members that keep spilo shoals.


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

I made the mistak of adding a gold spilo in with my reds and he took over the tank. within 10 minutes he had all my reds huddled in a corner.


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

its possible to make a spilo shoal. kinda risky tho


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## Joga Bonito (Oct 30, 2004)

i would love to see that


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## One800Jonny (Oct 13, 2004)

Spilos are really cool fish. I think you should be A okay with a 150 gallon, I had nine in a 75 gallon which was too much, but now its been a year and a half and I have 5 in there living happily at around 6-7". One trick to the trade is always keep feeders in there at first, cuz they are extremely territorial and i found that unless there were feeders in there they fought too much. Another note is if that if you have 1 that is considerably smaller than the rest, you might have some troubles. However, 150 gallons might take care of most the problems I encountered. Good luck man, by the way, are pygo's pretty boring? cuz i was thinking about buying 1 of each for my new tank.


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

I'll wait until you guys try it first before i take the risk of loosing several p's. It might work if you have a big enough tank. When my spilo was by himself he was quiet. but as soon as I put him with my reds he went crazy and attacked everything as soon as i put him in the tank! i had to take him out.
BTW: the spilo was easily 2" smaller than my smallest red but 3X more aggressive


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

WorldBelow07 said:


> its possible to make a spilo shoal. kinda risky tho
> [snapback]859378[/snapback]​


I know it's risky, but I've read it's one of the few Serra's that can be shoaled (somewhat succesfully







)
I'd definitely give each fish ample room, 20+ gal/fish, I'd have no plans of trying to overstock this tank.


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

how many would you put together anyway?


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

One800Jonny said:


> Spilos are really cool fish. I think you should be A okay with a 150 gallon, I had nine in a 75 gallon which was too much, but now its been a year and a half and I have 5 in there living happily at around 6-7". One trick to the trade is always keep feeders in there at first, cuz they are extremely territorial and i found that unless there were feeders in there they fought too much. Another note is if that if you have 1 that is considerably smaller than the rest, you might have some troubles. However, 150 gallons might take care of most the problems I encountered. Good luck man, by the way, are pygo's pretty boring? cuz i was thinking about buying 1 of each for my new tank.
> [snapback]859386[/snapback]​


Yeah, I'm hoping with the 150 there is hopefully enough space for each fish to tollerate each other. How agressive are yours and are they enjoyable to keep?

Pygos aren't boring in my book at all. I have my 180 stocked with them (see my sig.) and they're awesome. I think the bigger the tank and the more you can keep together, they more entertaining they are. They tear food up before it can even touch the ground and I can spend hours chilling on my couch watching them :nod:

But, since I already have a large tank with pygos, I was looking for something different for my other tank (Variety is the spice of life, and all that sh*t :laugh: )

To supragtsxr;

I was thinking of going with 7 fish max probably, that gives them a little over 20 gallons each.


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

I agree, pygos are cool in a shoal. I think as long as you have the space you should be able to shoal some together. Keep an eye on them though. Provide lots of cover

EDIT: you have a big tank so it should work


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## One800Jonny (Oct 13, 2004)

Ya gold spilos are real great to watch. I got mine when they were around 1.5 inches or so, and it took them about a year before they would really eat in front of me. When they were 4" I put a goldfish in there that was at least 8-9" and i they chased it and ripped it to shreads, it was great. haha. Im sure with your tank being a lot bigger you'll get a lot more activity out of em than i do. Another really cool thing about em is the gold coloring. I put sand in there (which is a pain in the ass at first) but it really accents their colors. Id definitely get some.


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

The gold color looks cooler and cooler with time. And they are way active


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

Cool, I think this will be the way I'm going to go with this tank after I use it as a temp tank when I move my 180 out of my apartment and back home this summer (Which will be a bitch and I'm not looking forward to







). Thanks guys.


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## supragtsxr (Feb 18, 2004)

No prob. Good luck.....let me know how it goes


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

In a 150g, you might be able to pull it off, but prepare to have heavy losses - Serra's arent shoaling fish, not even Spilo's, Macs or Geryi. They tolerate each other's presence in a tank large enough, but *don't shoal*.
Understanding that, and knowing about the difference between shoaling in the Pygo-sense on the one hand, and the cohabitation of Serra's on the other hand is vital to even have a remote chance of succes - they are two entirely different things!

If you want to give it a try, I'd get 6-8 juvi's (2-3" max.), so they'll sort things out amongst themselves, and you end up with the toughest and fittest specimen. Keep the temperature somewhat on the low side - 76-78 degrees F - and add lots and lots of decor, so they fish can get away from the others if they feel the need to.
Other than that, keep them well-fed, perhaps add a constant supply of dither fish such as tetra's, small cichlids or life bearers (stay away from Cyprinids, such as goldfish, koi, barbs, danio's and other carp-like fish), and hope for the best.

A member named Winkyee has kept a shoal of Macs for a good amount of time, so maybe he can give you some more useful tips. And there were/are a few more, but I forgot their names...

Good luck, but before you start, reconsider it - the worst-case scenario is a frustrating, fruitless effort and a lot of time and money wasted. If you start a 'project' like this without thorough planning and gathering info, you'll go downhill from the very first second: that just a handful of people managed to have long-term succes is not without reason!


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

Wow, talk about a comprehensive post. Thanks Judazz, I'm going to have a long time to think about if I want to do this or not, so I will def. put some thought into it.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

It's possible, has been done before but there are always risks with keeping piranha.


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

instead try 30gallons per fish


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

I've kept 3 S. maculatus together for several months. The only thing that has somewhat helped is a lower temperature (76-78F) close to their native water and provided hiding places. Which they all use. There has been fin biting, mainly on the tail. But other than that, they stay within their respective niches and venture out only to eat or fight.


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

hastatus said:


> I've kept 3 S. maculatus together for several months. The only thing that has somewhat helped is a lower temperature (76-78F) close to their native water and provided hiding places. Which they all use. There has been fin biting, mainly on the tail. But other than that, they stay within their respective niches and venture out only to eat or fight.
> [snapback]860088[/snapback]​


How much space are you giving each fish? A recommendation from you would be very welcomed









I'm really interested in seeing this work because it is something a little different than your normal pygo shoal. I was planning on planting the tank and adding more than a few peices of wood, which would probably help the situation.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> acidWarp Posted Today, 08:24 AM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Jan 24 2005, 11:13 AM)
> I've kept 3 S. maculatus together for several months. The only thing that has somewhat helped is a lower temperature (76-78F) close to their native water and provided hiding places. Which they all use. There has been fin biting, mainly on the tail. But other than that, they stay within their respective niches and venture out only to eat or fight.
> 
> ...


1) S. maculatus (which you call spilo) do not shoal in the literal sense. So read carefully what Judazzz stated above. Neither do the other Pygocentrus species. So we are dealing with an unnatural situation. You may read that this species is found in small groups (the proper term). However they keep distance from each other (a foot or more). Pygocentrus tend to congregate closer in the home aquario, but in nature they have nearly the same distance. Most people don't notice it because they are fixated on the term "shoal" without knowing it true definition. In the home aquario, they appear closer together and they are. There is a reason for it, but that is entirely a different topic.

2) Since having exact distances as in nature would be nearly impossible to duplicate in a home aquario, then you have to compensate to make it as close to natural as possible by providing hiding places so that when aggression does take place, they have a place to hide. I keep my 3 in a 55g. They stay within about 6 to 8 in. of each other which is close to natural as it gets. In terms of gallons does not apply here, distance does.


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## fliptasciouz (Jul 4, 2004)

i've read a month ago there was some guy managed to shoal brandtiis in a 150 gallon tank as well with 6-8 of them i think. iI don't remember and what helps to keep they're aggressive towards each other like Jonas and Opefe stated that the temperature must be low. I think he had his around 72-74 i believe not certain though and i haven't heard of him since


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## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> In a 150g, you might be able to pull it off, but prepare to have heavy losses - Serra's arent shoaling fish, not even Spilo's, Macs or Geryi. They tolerate each other's presence in a tank large enough, but *don't shoal*.
> Understanding that, and knowing about the difference between shoaling in the Pygo-sense on the one hand, and the cohabitation of Serra's on the other hand is vital to even have a remote chance of succes - they are two entirely different things!
> If you want to give it a try, I'd get 6-8 juvi's (2-3" max.), so they'll sort things out amongst themselves, and you end up with the toughest and fittest specimen. Keep the temperature somewhat on the low side - 76-78 degrees F - and add lots and lots of decor, so they fish can get away from the others if they feel the need to.
> Other than that, keep them well-fed, perhaps add a constant supply of dither fish such as tetra's, small cichlids or life bearers (stay away from Cyprinids, such as goldfish, koi, barbs, danio's and other carp-like fish), and hope for the best.
> ...


Great Post Judazzz. I couldn't have said it better myself. Except I wouldn't keep dither fish in there because ime it seems to get them more agressive.


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## Esoteric (Jul 7, 2004)

These are the kinda tanks that you hope you don't get a monster in. My Purple spilo is the meanest P I ever owned I could never dream of him sharing his tank.

On the other hand I can't wait to try this out myself Spilos are most likely my favorite Piranha. I hope it works out FishofFury might have the most impressive tank on Pfury IMO check it out.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

fishofury said:


> Great Post Judazzz. I couldn't have said it better myself. Except I wouldn't keep dither fish in there because ime it seems to get them more agressive.
> [snapback]861136[/snapback]​


All right - I'll keep that in mind (I'm planning to write an article about keeping Serra's in gruops in the near future - if you have anything else that is worth mentioning, let me know...)
Thanks


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## carisma02uk (Aug 1, 2004)

One800Jonny said:


> Spilos are really cool fish. I think you should be A okay with a 150 gallon, I had nine in a 75 gallon which was too much, but now its been a year and a half and I have 5 in there living happily at around 6-7". One trick to the trade is always keep feeders in there at first, cuz they are extremely territorial and i found that unless there were feeders in there they fought too much. Another note is if that if you have 1 that is considerably smaller than the rest, you might have some troubles. However, 150 gallons might take care of most the problems I encountered. Good luck man, by the way, are pygo's pretty boring? cuz i was thinking about buying 1 of each for my new tank.
> [snapback]859386[/snapback]​


it depends on what pygos you have in stocked.
all can br awsome fish if they feel safe and at home.
my reds are more active and frenzy more than a few supers and carbie shoals i have seen.

back to the question.
you could shoal spilo, yes try and get one of each form (red,gold,purple)
that would look like and awsome tank.
and have no decor as they will need a large terratory each but if they have notting to recognise it by they cant have them.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

i think in that size tank and if it is well planted it might work. good luck i would try it hope it works out for u


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## acidWarp (Jun 30, 2003)

shoe997bed263 said:


> i think in that size tank and if it is well planted it might work. good luck i would try it hope it works out for u
> [snapback]862243[/snapback]​


This isn't going to happen until summer comes around, but when it does, I'm deffinitely going with a planted tank. I added plants and wood to my 180g recently and it has helped to keep the aggression down with my cariba, which seem to eat everything else in their path.

I think hidding spots (both plants and some wood) are a must for this to happen. When I do start, I promise pics, cause this will be fun.









Thanks for all the suggestions people.


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## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> All right - I'll keep that in mind (I'm planning to write an article about keeping Serra's in gruops in the near future - if you have anything else that is worth mentioning, let me know...)
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ...


I'll PM you with any additional information that I feel is note worthy.



carisma02uk said:


> back to the question.
> you could shoal spilo, yes try and get one of each form (red,gold,purple)
> that would look like and awsome tank.
> and have no decor as they will need a large terratory each but if they have notting to recognise it by they cant have them.
> [snapback]861834[/snapback]​


As mentioned before, Serras will not "Shoal" in the home aquarium. They will tolerate each other to a certain extent.


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## benie (Apr 20, 2003)

i've got 3 red bellies with a gold in a 125.they been schoaling for a year now with no problem..i feed them once every 1 or 2 days..and thery're fine..no fin nips..


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