# Sand VS Gravel



## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

can someone share with me the pros and cons of them? I currently have a juvenile rhom, and i am going to be purchasing a permanent home for him (75g) shortly. I really like the way the sand looks, but how is it for the fish, and why do most people use gravel? Thanks!


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## jacks (Aug 6, 2007)

Gooniesneversayx said:


> can someone share with me the pros and cons of them? I currently have a juvenile rhom, and i am going to be purchasing a permanent home for him (75g) shortly. I really like the way the sand looks, but how is it for the fish, and why do most people use gravel? Thanks!


i think sand is better purely for cleaning but black gravel is cool too as it tend to bring out the colours of the piranhas, i think it is really down to your personnel preference


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

sand=lot of work to make it look good, but when it looks good it looks really good

gravel= easily cleaned and doesn't look that bad

IMO the ease of maintaining gravel outweigh the pain in the ass that sand is. Id go with gravel.


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## ELREYDENJ83 (Jun 25, 2008)

sand can cause problems for your filter such as getting all clogged up in the impeller, however it does look a little better than gravel. simply because i do not want to deal with the sand getting sucked up into my filters, i went with black gravel. i chose the smallest black gravel i could find, which i think is the best look for a P tank.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

I actually use black gravel now, so I think I am going to set up a 20g with sand (not for p's) and see how that goes before I make a decision on the 75.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

rock, looks ulgy and fake
sand, its real - looks great - easy to keep clean - cheap as hell - and looks bitchn.

BTW i only use sand.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

bobme said:


> rock, looks ulgy and fake
> sand, its real - looks great - easy to keep clean - cheap as hell - and looks bitchn.
> 
> BTW i only use sand.


haha i would have never guessed!


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

Sand-FTW!! I had gravel in all my tanks before and switched to all sand. It looks 1000x's better than gravel IMO! It is not a pain in the ass at all. Personally I think it is easier than gravel!! The waste stays on top unlike gravel in which goes in between the gravel and will eventually build up underneath of it. All you do is skim over it with the siphon to clean and you done! just try it and see how you like it in the 20! I personally have really grown to love the color sand. I have blue in my 55 and it makes my tank look unreal clear. Good Luck!!


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## VJventrella (Feb 16, 2007)

Ya, i made the mistake of going with gravel, if i could go back in time and change to sand i definatly would...it looks sweet


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## D.D.Denham (Aug 13, 2007)

If you want a compromise between the two, check out Carib Sea's website for Super Natural Rio Grande or Peace River. It is probably the finest granule size you can find in a gravel, yet it has the look similar to sand in an aquarium. You still get the density so you can vacuum it, yet it won't get into your filter system. Check out their site and see if a local store has some you can go to see.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

ya that rock works well also, but i tt just costs a tad more ... naw a lot more then sand.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

So this is actually going to turn into quite a project for me, as I decided to try brackish water with some (possibly 2) archerfish. But I will be getting that 20 gallon and setting it up with sand this weekend!


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

i vote sand. tahitian moon sand to be specific.



VJventrella said:


> Ya, i made the mistake of going with gravel, if i could go back in time and change to sand i definatly would...it looks sweet


you can change your substrate you know? its not something impossible, its a pita, but i did it (took gravel out of an established tank and put sand in) and am glad i did.


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

I have been debating this as well since I am setting up a 135 for my p's now. I have never used sand before. My main concern is the will the sand wreck the impellers on my filters? What specific types of sand should be avoided in an aquarium?


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Sanjo Eel said:


> I have been debating this as well since I am setting up a 135 for my p's now. I have never used sand before. My main concern is the will the sand wreck the impellers on my filters? What specific types of sand should be avoided in an aquarium?


The sand usually is heavy enough to not get sucked up into the impeller when it is disturbed. I know I have had some sand go through my ac110 on my red tank because I see the sand in the filter pads. I have not had a problem but I have only had the sand in my tank for about a month or so. Based on my experience with sand I agree it is much more attractive and functional however I will stick to gravel in my smaller tanks and use sand in my larger ones from now on. I usually plant my larger tanks so it helps with water parameters if something does slip through the sand or if I cant get all of the garbage out. I do still stay on top of water changes but usually my garbage is suckedup into the filters and stays off of the sand so I dont need to vac that often. When waste does collect on top of the sand it is usually all in one spot and is fairly easy to get in one pass of the siphon. I am too cheap to use a python lol.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

avoid sand that is specifically for marine tanks, because it will alter PH. 
play sand is good, tahitian moon sand is my favorite, and i have never used it before, but i hear pool filter sand is also really good.

i have run sand in tanks for a WHILE with no real problems, just be careful and research when you go to add it initially (steps will differ depending on what you settle on, but play sand is the most annoying to clean IME)
edit: play sand is annoying to clean initially that is... as oposed to the TMS where you just rinse and add (with the filter off for about an hour or two til everything settles)


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

Well I was out at the landscape supply place and saw some sand and got me thinking. I guess it's just standard sand mined locally and used for construction. Would this sand be ok? I've been searching I just want to make sure this stuff is safe.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

yeah, it should be safe. just make sure there is no additives.
and wash it this way:
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=56310
its an old link so the pics are gone, but the method is still there and i used it and it worked great.


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks, Nick. I think my new 135 will be getting sand in that case! My P's are gonna luv it.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

sweet dude! just make sure that when you add the sand to the tank you give it enough time to settle before turning on the filters. however, you will IMMEDIATELY know if u turned them on too soon. my 75 gallon took about a day and a half to completely settle, but i didnt have any fish in that tank at the time, so i probably let it go longer than it needed. 
good luck, post pics when you get it set up!


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks for the tips, & the link, I just read through that thread and I am sure I wouldn't have rinsed it well enough, LOL! I will def. post pics don't worry.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)




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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

Every time some one buys sand and says i didnt wash it well enough, blah blah .... 
Really go to Lowes and buy the sand in the white bag with green text. Its SO clean!! really .. i dont understand why people buy cheaper sand .. its like $1 more, oo o wow really?


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

bobme said:


> Every time some one buys sand and says i didnt wash it well enough, blah blah ....
> Really go to Lowes and buy the sand in the white bag with green text. Its SO clean!! really .. i dont understand why people buy cheaper sand .. its like $1 more, oo o wow really?


Even if you buy expensive sand like tahiti moon you really need to make sure you wash it good or else you will have cloudy water for awhile.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

I really dont undersand.

How much sand have you used? Really?

I have used over 2000 pounds, and I just bought 500 more pounds of this sand for my tanks.
Really guys, this sand is super clean. Do i wash it? Yes, for long? No i dump it out and wash it and guess what, every time the water comes out super clean, not dirty at all, so i dump it in the tank.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

That may be your luck im not saying your wrong but for some people like me the first time we use sand and even the second or third it does not come out that clean. I am just trying to be more realistic for new people who read this because im sure you notice how everytime someone changes a tank over to sand they post...Why is my tank so cloudy. I remember one person who changed back to gravel because he was not as lucky as you.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

thats because no one buys the dang sand i tell them to buy!
Its real easy, I bought oter sand and they SUCK ASS big time.

Buy the sand in the white bag with green text at lowes and bam! its all good.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

People may want other sands because it is a different color. Does your sand come in different colors?


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

The color sand I use I rinse for about a minute. It is super sweet and does not get cloudy at all. It just take about an hour for all the particles to settle.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

So personally I decided to go with the Tahitian Moon Sand, I just hope I can find it being I never noticed it before. But while we are on the topic, and I know this came up before, but it is 1lb of sand per gallon? If so than one 20lb bag should be sufficient in a 20g, coerrect?


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Gooniesneversayx said:


> So personally I decided to go with the Tahitian Moon Sand, I just hope I can find it being I never noticed it before. But while we are on the topic, and I know this came up before, but it is 1lb of sand per gallon? If so than one 20lb bag should be sufficient in a 20g, coerrect?


Correct but if you want a deeper sand bed then add more sand then 1lb per gallon but if you want a shorter sand bed then use about half that and it will still cover the bottom good. I used a minimum amount to cover the bottom of mine and it still looked great.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

AS fan said:


> So personally I decided to go with the Tahitian Moon Sand, I just hope I can find it being I never noticed it before. But while we are on the topic, and I know this came up before, but it is 1lb of sand per gallon? If so than one 20lb bag should be sufficient in a 20g, coerrect?


Correct but if you want a deeper sand bed then add more sand then 1lb per gallon but if you want a shorter sand bed then use about half that and it will still cover the bottom good. I used a minimum amount to cover the bottom of mine and it still looked great.
[/quote]

Being its only a 20g I think around 2 inches would be the max depth I would like to use, which imo should be plenty


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

then the 20lb bag should be right at 2 inches


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

AS fan said:


> then the 20lb bag should be right at 2 inches


Good deal, I'm getting the tank tommarow so hopefully Thursday I can start adding sand and water, I will update for everyone that is curious about it so you can actually know from a beginners standpoint how it is.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Gooniesneversayx said:


> then the 20lb bag should be right at 2 inches


Good deal, I'm getting the tank tommarow so hopefully Thursday I can start adding sand and water, I will update for everyone that is curious about it so you can actually know from a beginners standpoint how it is.
[/quote]

Very nice now dont forget to cycle the tank.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

Is the cycle for brackish any different than freshwater? I planned on having it setup and running by Friday and letting it run for at leaat 2 weeks before adding fish. I picked up a biowheel filter last night (I forget exactly which model but it was rated for 50g) and I also got some instant ocean salt. Tonight I'm getting the tank and hopefully a hydrometer and the sand.


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

Your cycle will honestly take longer than a 2 weeks. Some take a month, some take more. Just get some other fish to throw in there to get the cycle going.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Gooniesneversayx said:


> Is the cycle for brackish any different than freshwater? I planned on having it setup and running by Friday and letting it run for at leaat 2 weeks before adding fish. I picked up a biowheel filter last night (I forget exactly which model but it was rated for 50g) and I also got some instant ocean salt. Tonight I'm getting the tank and hopefully a hydrometer and the sand.


I would probably start a new post for this topic so others can find it when they search in the future. Im not sure on brackish tanks because I have never really had one. But I do know if you just set the tank up for a couple weeks that doesnt mean it is cycled. It has to colonize beneficial bacteria. Look in the information section there is a tab at the top of this page and it will have more information on cycling and the nitrification cycle. That will give you a better idea on cycling. Also use the search to see what others have to say. Bottom line is you need a ammonia source to start a cycle then you will have a ammonia reading when you test your water shortly after adding the ammonia source maybe a week maybe less depends on bioload. Then your ammonia will go down untill there is no readable ammonia on your water test. While the ammonia levels lower you will start seeing nitrites in your water test. The nitrites will then decrease like the ammonia did. Lastly you will see nitrates on your water test and this will continue to climb until it is removed by a water change, plants consuming them or in some other way being physically removed from the water. When you have no ammonia reading and no nitrite reading then your tank is cycled. You will always have a nitrate reading just try to keep it as low as you can.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

cobrafox46 said:


> Your cycle will honestly take longer than a 2 weeks. Some take a month, some take more. Just get some other fish to throw in there to get the cycle going.


Any recomondations for good starter fish?


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## stackbrickz (Feb 22, 2008)

I have always used danio's and neons


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

bobme said:


> So personally I decided to go with the Tahitian Moon Sand, I just hope I can find it being I never noticed it before. But while we are on the topic, and I know this came up before, but it is 1lb of sand per gallon? If so than one 20lb bag should be sufficient in a 20g, coerrect?


my favorite. 
1#/gal is fine. 
when i cycled a while ago, i just used like 12 goldfish. (because they were the cheapest possible fish and create the biggest bioload). danios and tetras work too, but i like a messy fish when cycling a tank for an even messier fish.


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

AS fan said:


> Is the cycle for brackish any different than freshwater? I planned on having it setup and running by Friday and letting it run for at leaat 2 weeks before adding fish. I picked up a biowheel filter last night (I forget exactly which model but it was rated for 50g) and I also got some instant ocean salt. Tonight I'm getting the tank and hopefully a hydrometer and the sand.


I would probably start a new post for this topic so others can find it when they search in the future. Im not sure on brackish tanks because I have never really had one. But I do know if you just set the tank up for a couple weeks that doesnt mean it is cycled. It has to colonize beneficial bacteria. Look in the information section there is a tab at the top of this page and it will have more information on cycling and the nitrification cycle. That will give you a better idea on cycling. Also use the search to see what others have to say. Bottom line is you need a ammonia source to start a cycle then you will have a ammonia reading when you test your water shortly after adding the ammonia source maybe a week maybe less depends on bioload. Then your ammonia will go down untill there is no readable ammonia on your water test. While the ammonia levels lower you will start seeing nitrites in your water test. The nitrites will then decrease like the ammonia did. Lastly you will see nitrates on your water test and this will continue to climb until it is removed by a water change, plants consuming them or in some other way being physically removed from the water. When you have no ammonia reading and no nitrite reading then your tank is cycled. You will always have a nitrate reading just try to keep it as low as you can.
[/quote]

I'm sorry this got very off topic, but none the less I will let everyone know how the sand goes


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

no its just the color of ..... sand? tanish with black specs ...


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

I was at Lowes today and the only sand in a white bag w/green lettering was labeled play sand and was too white for me. I went with the all purpose sand it was like $2.50 for 50#. I want it deep so I went with 300#. I figured I would lose a lot in the wash. Looks good and natural and looks like it will be a nice dark tan when wet. I'm gonna test it in a 10 gallon to make sure it looks good before I put it in the big dawg....


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

check this out:
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...=166412&hl=


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

Yes it is play sand ... sorry it was to white, it get s quite dark once wet ... but hey, thats ok


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

Nick G said:


> check this out:
> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...=166412&hl=


im glad that looks so good because i ust purchased some for myself


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

Wow what a difference black sand made to NickG P's. I wish I could afford $135 worth. Hopefully the all purpose sand will be dark enough.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

If you look for a good price online usually you can get a local store to price match either big als or petsmart stores like that. If you cant get a store to price match then you can always look really hard for cheap color sand and order it online. I looked online for a good price when i wanted to buy black sand and managed to get big als to price match so it wasnt too expensive. There are a few sites that have bulk sand in different colors and the shipping isnt too much so im sure you can cut your cost in atleast half if you look hard enough.


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

petsmart stops price matching online sites prices


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

So I finally got this tank up and running! I bought the tahitian moon from a lfs and got everything else i needed today. AS AN EXPERIMENT, although everyone said not to, i just dumped the sand in without washing it. BIG mistake. there was soot? everywhere, water was extremly cloudy and if was just awful. so i drained the water, dumped the sand in a 5g bucket (20lbs of sand btw) and took it outside. I used a hose to wash it. I did the whole bag at once, it took 15-20 min. when i filled the tank up again after less than 10 min it was crystal clear! so in all honesty 15-20 extra minutes for however many years of viewing pleasure, i doubt i will ever use gravel again!

and by the way, after i filled it the first time while i was syphoning the water i practiced vaccuming the bottom, not hard at all! I will have pics later today or tommarow.


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

Awesome! Post some pics for sure!


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## Sanjo Eel (Aug 21, 2008)

Glad you had good results with your sand. I have 20 lbs of all purpose sand washed so far, but I'll need about 150 lbs or so. It is quite a chore, but it has a nice natural dark beige color so it should help the p's color, and cheap as dirt, wait, it is dirt.....


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## Restricted- (Aug 21, 2008)

Gooniesneversayx said:


> So this is actually going to turn into quite a project for me, as I decided to try brackish water with some (possibly 2) archerfish. But I will be getting that 20 gallon and setting it up with sand this weekend!


i wouldn't think that a 75 gal is big enought for a black rhombeus


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## gooniesneversayx (Sep 2, 2008)

piranhafatality said:


> So this is actually going to turn into quite a project for me, as I decided to try brackish water with some (possibly 2) archerfish. But I will be getting that 20 gallon and setting it up with sand this weekend!


i wouldn't think that a 75 gal is big enought for a black rhombeus
[/quote]

Why wouldn't it be?


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

piranhafatality said:


> So this is actually going to turn into quite a project for me, as I decided to try brackish water with some (possibly 2) archerfish. But I will be getting that 20 gallon and setting it up with sand this weekend!


i wouldn't think that a 75 gal is big enought for a black rhombeus
[/quote]
i missed something. when did he say that he had a black rhombeus?

and a rhom is fine in a 75 for a long time, but it will eventually need something bigger. by eventually i mean like 10 years if you are starting with a little guy.


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