# Alligator gar guys in here - need advice FAST!



## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

Went to the lfs and they have 5 3" true alligator gar. Easy to tell the difference between the florida gar they have cause the gators have a much wider jaw - particularly the lower one. Anyways, they strike me as a pretty good price - $75 canadian (so like a tad under $50 US, ballpark). They look great too - fins all intact and very vivid dark markings.
Anyways, here's the bind. Of course everyone knows these things turn into monsters eventually. What I'm wondering is at 3" will they coexist peacefully with what I've got (see sig)? I figure if he can't fit them in his mouth, they're good. Secondly - if I feed him SPARINGLY (ie. I only feed my redtail cuda and needlenose 2 minnows a week - tops - and the cuda's gone from about 3" to maybe 6" in 6 months. So what's the GROWTH rate on a true alligator? I'd love to hear some advice from guys who actually have them, and what they think would happen to their growth rate if they only got a feeder or two a week at this small size. He'd be going in a 55 gallon which I know will be WAY too small down the road, so you don't have to remind me of that. I'm just wondering if I can get a year or something out of this fish until he's too big for the tank, or ready/able to eat my other fish. Plan would be down the road to either buy a bigger tank, or sell him back to the lfs if I'm really stuck.
I'm also in a bit of a rush because they just got these things in (first time I've ever seen them at ANY lfs, and first time this shop has ever had them according to the sales guy). One's already on hold and I would plan to get one in 2 days if it seems like a reasonable idea. Sorry for the long post and any relevant advice is greatly appreciated!


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## iNfecTion (Aug 18, 2003)

Save yourself and the gar the trouble dont buy it


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

AdioPunk said:


> Save yourself and the gar the trouble dont buy it


 Care to elaborate on that? Just curious for what reasons. So far, I've heard varying opinions from different people I've talked to. Some say you can't feed a gar only a couple minnows a week and that he'll grow 2-3 inches a month. Others say you can get them onto various pellets and not powerfeed and he might hit close to 12 inches by the end of a year. 
Just trying to gather details, so can you expand on your original post? Thanks.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

I highly suggest you just avoid the fish,

It is not good for the animal to stunt it's growth for personal gratification,
these fish are "designed" to grow fast, by removing that, you are going to
screw them up.

You can not stop the growth of these gars, it is not correct to do so,
just refrain from keeping them if you can not house them.


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> I highly suggest you just avoid the fish,
> 
> It is not good for the animal to stunt it's growth for personal gratification,
> these fish are "designed" to grow fast, by removing that, you are going to
> ...


 So correct it sometimes hurts, Poly.


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## a*men (Mar 23, 2004)

what's a gar


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

ColdCanuck said:


> AdioPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Save yourself and the gar the trouble dont buy it
> ...


 I'd have to agree, Alligator gar are not worth it. Get more cudas! And a larger tank! (you'd enjoy their schooling/feeding together)


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

You only give your fish 2 minnows a week? Why? You are either the tightest person i've ever heard of or you are trying to stunt their growth. You should vary their diet and you will see the benefits.
If you did get the gar would you keept it in the 55g for life? That deffiantely wouldn't work.

Don't get it.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> You only give your fish 2 minnows a week? Why? You are either the tightest person i've ever heard of or you are trying to stunt their growth. You should vary their diet and you will see the benefits.
> If you did get the gar would you keept it in the 55g for life? That deffiantely wouldn't work.
> 
> Don't get it.


 Actually, the cuda doesn't really need/want any more than that - same with the needlenose. I find if I try to feed every day (and I've tried this), they often ignore the minnow and I end up having to fish it out with a net after 10-15 minutes. Btw, I refuse to let minnows just swim around in my main tank waiting to be eaten because I'm quite certain I must've lost my first datnoid due to a feeder being in there for too long and likely passing on a disease. I find 2 or maybe 3 minnows a week is really all they're interested in.
As for the gar, of course I wouldn't be keeping him in a 55 for life. Please re-read the thread. I said I would only plan on keeping him until maybe 8-10 inches or in other words until the tank size was unsuitable for him.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

acestro said:


> ColdCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > AdioPunk said:
> ...


 Hahaha, talking to you in two places at once it seems









I'd love to get more cudas, but the lfs' around me never seem to get any (believe me, I check regularly). The one cuda I have was the first I saw in any of the local shops in maybe 5-7 years! 
I'd also love to get a bigger tank, but unfortunately I don't have the money or space at this point in time. One day I'll be looking to get into at least a 120 and maybe as big as a 180 or 220


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Intentionally under feeding a fish so he will get stunted is going to lead up to a fucked up fish with a much shorter life span. As a crazy idea I'm just going to toss out there... maybe you should only buy fish you can properly care for


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Intentionally under feeding a fish so he will get stunted is going to lead up to a fucked up fish with a much shorter life span. As a crazy idea I'm just going to toss out there... maybe you should only buy fish you can properly care for


 Please re-read my initial post(s) and don't accuse me of something I have no intention of doing. I said I was hoping to feed him on the "low" end of what he REQUIRES. That means I'm NOT planning on starving him. I just don't want to feed him EXCESSIVELY so he does not outgrow my tank in a month. 
I understand people's thoughts that this is an odd idea on my part, but please don't accuse me of things I'm not going to do.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

ColdCanuck said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Intentionally under feeding a fish so he will get stunted is going to lead up to a fucked up fish with a much shorter life span. As a crazy idea I'm just going to toss out there... maybe you should only buy fish you can properly care for
> ...


Man, if your idea is to feed less to reduce growth you are stunting the animal,

These fish need to be heavily fed while young, you can not reduce that 
without causing severe problems, these fish need consistant food and
open spaces to grow when young. You can not pick when to allow them to grow,
They should be fed hard and grown fast for their health.

If you can not or are unwilling to do so, do not keep the species,
It is very simple. Alligator gar are not for everyone,
Either decide you want to deal with the difficulty or drop it.

You will not find a convienient way of keeping them without coming to the fact
they a damn big fish.

Expect it and prepare for it or do not obtain one.

Atractosteus are not fish to casually play with, if your serious
go for it, if not do not think about it.

I get your not serious at all, as you refuse to take in that these fish get big
and Quickly, you want them to fit your life, thats not how things work.

You need to fit your life to them, prepare and be ready for the future
before obtaining one.

at Your convienience is irrelivent, You do not have that option
with these fish, they will overwhelm you if your not prepared.

Atractosteus may be a novelity while young, that goes away pretty quick when you have a three foot fish on your hands that requires more and more food and increasingly larger tank space.

Atractosteus are not Home aquarium fish. You will need an appropriate
Pond or other sutible container to keep them.

The animal will live for some 75 years, are you prepared for it?

At five foot are you ready to feed it daily 2 pounds of cut baitfish?
at the cost of ten dollars per day

Leave them alone, your better off just not keeping them.
Don't deluded yourself by temptation these fish really suck
as aquarium fish.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> ColdCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > elTwitcho said:
> ...


 Poly, thank you for the lengthy post. I appreciate your knowledge and the time you took to type it. Of course you're right in everything you said. The ONLY thing I wish to take exception to is the fact that I've already said I realize this fish will grow rapidly. I've said I don't PLAN/WANT to STARVE/UNDERFEED him, I simply don't want to feed more than he REQUIRES. That's one of the things I wanted info about from the experienced (gator) gar guys. I want to be sure his needs are met, but not overdo feeding so he outgrows my tank in a few weeks. I figured this way I might get 6 months if I'm lucky. Seeing as I've already said I don't have room for such an (eventually) huge fish (by the way, I've also acknowledged the size issue), I would trade him back with the shop as soon as I could no longer care for him adequately. I'm not the type of person who would keep a 1.5-2 foot fish in my 55 gallon only to have a miserable animal that couldn't even turn around. My thoughts are someone would readily scoop him up from the lfs after I returned him. One of these fish was already on hold when I saw them, and I encountered several individuals buying large predatory fish for their large tanks (I asked them their tank size and they all had 200+ gallon tanks). Someone like that would no doubt pick up this guy when I returned him at 8-9 inches a few months down the road. Of course, eventually they too would have to give him up or move him to a larger aquarium seeing as 200 gallons would only suffice for perhaps the first 1.5-2 years. 
As I said initially, I greatly appreciate your viewpoints and agree with your underlying message. I too consider myself a fish - make that animal - lover, and would not wish to inflict suffering on one. This is why I've been wondering all along if I could house one of these magnificent creatures for just a short time, while caring for him appropriately.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

> Poly, thank you for the lengthy post. I appreciate your knowledge and the time you took to type it. Of course you're right in everything you said. The ONLY thing I wish to take exception to is the fact that I've already said I realize this fish will grow rapidly. I've said I don't PLAN/WANT to STARVE/UNDERFEED him, I simply don't want to feed more than he REQUIRES. That's one of the things I wanted info about from the experienced (gator) gar guys. I want to be sure his needs are met, but not overdo feeding so he outgrows my tank in a few weeks. I figured this way I might get 6 months if I'm lucky. Seeing as I've already said I don't have room for such an (eventually) huge fish (by the way, I've also acknowledged the size issue), I would trade him back with the shop as soon as I could no longer care for him adequately. I'm not the type of person who would keep a 1.5-2 foot fish in my 55 gallon only to have a miserable animal that couldn't even turn around. My thoughts are someone would readily scoop him up from the lfs after I returned him. One of these fish was already on hold when I saw them, and I encountered several individuals buying large predatory fish for their large tanks (I asked them their tank size and they all had 200+ gallon tanks). Someone like that would no doubt pick up this guy when I returned him at 8-9 inches a few months down the road. Of course, eventually they too would have to give him up or move him to a larger aquarium seeing as 200 gallons would only suffice for perhaps the first 1.5-2 years.
> As I said initially, I greatly appreciate your viewpoints and agree with your underlying message. I too consider myself a fish - make that animal - lover, and would not wish to inflict suffering on one. This is why I've been wondering all along if I could house one of these magnificent creatures for just a short time, while caring for him appropriately.


 Too many people buy large predatory fish when they are small, then think there is an endless supply of dedicated fishkeepers with 10,000g tanks dying to get hold of anything you offer them. This is very short sited and imo a very immature and irresponsible way of keeping fish. If you can't provide enough space for a fish when fully grown just don't get it. I also still believe a few minnows is insufficent food for your fish, and its not healthy for them. VARY THEIR DIET. Also if you leave the minnow in for longer than 15 mins they will probably eat it in their own time. Also thinking tht 15 mins is the dealine for disease to infect your tank is ridiculous. Just buy some frozen food like any other moron could.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

ColdCanuck said:


> Polypterus said:
> 
> 
> > ColdCanuck said:
> ...


 Dude I think what you're missing is that he REQUIRES enough food to GROW QUICKLY at his NATURAL GROWTH RATE. If you're feeding him the food he REQUIRES he'll grow quickly, if not you're just feeding him enough not to die and you're starving him. There isn't a sliding scale of what amount of food is healthy for a fish, it's either enough food or it isn't, and enough food will make your fish grow at it's natural rapid rate. Do not buy this fish


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> > Poly, thank you for the lengthy post. I appreciate your knowledge and the time you took to type it. Of course you're right in everything you said. The ONLY thing I wish to take exception to is the fact that I've already said I realize this fish will grow rapidly. I've said I don't PLAN/WANT to STARVE/UNDERFEED him, I simply don't want to feed more than he REQUIRES. That's one of the things I wanted info about from the experienced (gator) gar guys. I want to be sure his needs are met, but not overdo feeding so he outgrows my tank in a few weeks. I figured this way I might get 6 months if I'm lucky. Seeing as I've already said I don't have room for such an (eventually) huge fish (by the way, I've also acknowledged the size issue), I would trade him back with the shop as soon as I could no longer care for him adequately. I'm not the type of person who would keep a 1.5-2 foot fish in my 55 gallon only to have a miserable animal that couldn't even turn around. My thoughts are someone would readily scoop him up from the lfs after I returned him. One of these fish was already on hold when I saw them, and I encountered several individuals buying large predatory fish for their large tanks (I asked them their tank size and they all had 200+ gallon tanks). Someone like that would no doubt pick up this guy when I returned him at 8-9 inches a few months down the road. Of course, eventually they too would have to give him up or move him to a larger aquarium seeing as 200 gallons would only suffice for perhaps the first 1.5-2 years.
> > As I said initially, I greatly appreciate your viewpoints and agree with your underlying message. I too consider myself a fish - make that animal - lover, and would not wish to inflict suffering on one. This is why I've been wondering all along if I could house one of these magnificent creatures for just a short time, while caring for him appropriately.
> 
> 
> Too many people buy large predatory fish when they are small, then think there is an endless supply of dedicated fishkeepers with 10,000g tanks dying to get hold of anything you offer them. This is very short sited and imo a very immature and irresponsible way of keeping fish. If you can't provide enough space for a fish when fully grown just don't get it. I also still believe a few minnows is insufficent food for your fish, and its not healthy for them. VARY THEIR DIET. Also if you leave the minnow in for longer than 15 mins they will probably eat it in their own time. Also thinking tht 15 mins is the dealine for disease to infect your tank is ridiculous. Just buy some frozen food like any other moron could.


 Again, I appreciate your belief in not being cruel to the fish. I DON'T appreciate being called a moron. It's not like I came in here saying "hey guys, I'm getting an aligator gar - boy I just can't wait till he's 6 feet long and his head and tail hang out over the edge of my tank, that'll be so awesome!!! Also, never did I say a feeder left in my tank for 15 mins killed my datnoid. I put in a couple and one was eaten within a few minutes. The other stayed in there for many hours until it must've been consumed by someone. THAT is certainly enough time for something to be passed on. And THAT is why I fish out feeders that haven't been eaten after about 15 minutes. Please don't jump to conclusions, even though it might be amusing and easy for you.
My plan was/is to keep the gator for a few months feeding him appropriately, but just not POWERFEEDING him, the way some guys around here do with their preds to ensure MAXIMAL growth in MINIMAL time. The guy at the lfs already said he'd be willing to buy him back down the road for at least what I paid and that he personally knows several guys with very large tanks who'd be willing to take him into a new home more appropriate for his size at that point of his life.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

get it in writing, he might just be saying that to sell it.When i feed my fish i let them eat as much as they want once a day (easier for me really). If they were smaller fish it would be 2-3 small feedings a day but these are predators so i assumed since they eat one big fish in the wild this woulkd be more natural. elTwitcho has already said this, by keeping it hungry you are going to stunt its growth. Btw you asked for advice, everyone has said deffinately not get it and you are still saying you are getting it then selling it again. So what exactly was the point in this thread?


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> get it in writing, he might just be saying that to sell it.When i feed my fish i let them eat as much as they want once a day (easier for me really). If they were smaller fish it would be 2-3 small feedings a day but these are predators so i assumed since they eat one big fish in the wild this woulkd be more natural. elTwitcho has already said this, by keeping it hungry you are going to stunt its growth. Btw you asked for advice, everyone has said deffinately not get it and you are still saying you are getting it then selling it again. So what exactly was the point in this thread?


 As I said, I don't need/want to make a profit off this fish. If the shop gives me 5 bucks for it and take it back to sell to someone with a more suitable tank down the road, I'd do it. 
The point of this thread is whether I could keep this guy happily in my tank for a few months. I think the answer - feeding him adequately - is yes. I also now have a friend who will be buying a 180 gallon tank within a week or so and the gar will almost definitely go to him once he outgrows my tank. I think this is not an unfair proposition seeing as I will give this fish all the proper care it needs - and deserves - over that initial period.


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## gourami-master (Apr 1, 2004)

lol like a 350 gallon would be good


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

DUDE.. GET OVER IT. THIS FISH IS OUT OF YOUR REACH...

what the f*ck is wrong with this guy.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

gourami-master said:


> lol like a 350 gallon would be good


 good for what? 2 years?

stfu.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)




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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

ColdCanuck said:


> WolfFish said:
> 
> 
> > get it in writing, he might just be saying that to sell it.When i feed my fish i let them eat as much as they want once a day (easier for me really). If they were smaller fish it would be 2-3 small feedings a day but these are predators so i assumed since they eat one big fish in the wild this woulkd be more natural. elTwitcho has already said this, by keeping it hungry you are going to stunt its growth. Btw you asked for advice, everyone has said deffinately not get it and you are still saying you are getting it then selling it again. So what exactly was the point in this thread?
> ...


So you intend to keep it underfed untill it gets too big then give it to another with inadaquate housing to again under feed it, for what to go to another with inadaquate housing and not willing to feed it what it needs?

Gars need alot of food when young, you claim you understand this but say such things as "I just want to keep it from growing to big for blah blah amount of time" that is underfeeding the animal. Gars require heavy feeding while young or they will suffer from it Morphologicly, Studies have been done on early raising of Atractosteus, it is conclusive they require alot of food to grow properly and healthy,
This is one of the problems that those hoping to Farm these fish are running into,
Nutritional intake varies with age. Young fish require being 
"Power fed" untill they reach a size of 2 foot, it is essentional that these fish are grown quick.

Man, what I'm trying to say is do not bother with them,
What you want is not realistic nor the best for the fish.

Either commit to the keeping of the fish or drop it and do not keep it.
All you are doing is creating a market for an animal that should not be kept
in a home aquarium.

I have some articles on Gar development and nutritional needs
If you want them PM me.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

> you asked for advice, everyone has said deffinately not get it and you are still saying you are getting it then selling it again. So what exactly was the point in this thread?


you didn't answer my question.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> ColdCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > WolfFish said:
> ...


 Jesus Christ, no offense, but you guys don't read very well, do you? I never said I want to underfeed him. When guys started suggesting that was my intention, I then CLARIFIED and said I would plan to feed him ADEQUATELY, but not POWERFEED him. If that means still feeding him quite a bit, so be it. If he outgrows my tank in 2 months, so be it. 
And Peacock, I hardly think that fish will outgrow my buddy's tank (200ish gallons) in a few months. If he can get maybe 1.5-2 years out of him, then he can find a new taker. Both he and I would care for this fish very carefully, as we do with all our other fish. 
Now it just seems guys want to jump on the bashing bandwagon. I understand the point about staying within your means when choosing fish, but I don't think swapping this fish with someone else the way I've described is going to horribly torture it. 
Sorry for getting snippy, and I realize I asked for advice, but I just get the feeling some guys get a bit too much out of crapping on others over message boards without considering if the situation in question is really THAT bad.


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## BoomerSub (Jun 23, 2003)

Is there any reason you wouldn't like a spotted, shortnose, or Florida gar instead? All of these look very much like the gator gar and stay much smaller, and would do well in your planned 180 for quite some time, if not for life. It makes no sense to get _A.spatula_ because it's the largest and then try to keep it from attaining the mammoth proportions that drew you to it in the first place.

-PK


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

BoomerSub said:


> Is there any reason you wouldn't like a spotted, shortnose, or Florida gar instead? All of these look very much like the gator gar and stay much smaller, and would do well in your planned 180 for quite some time, if not for life. It makes no sense to get _A.spatula_ because it's the largest and then try to keep it from attaining the mammoth proportions that drew you to it in the first place.
> 
> -PK


 hes not in it for the actualy "hobby" part.

he wants braggin rights.. "hey guys!! i have an alligator Gar!!"

what a shmuck.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

Im not trying to bash you here but I see a couple things wrong with your views. 1st off, you've stated


> Btw, I refuse to let minnows just swim around in my main tank waiting to be eaten because I'm quite certain I must've lost my first datnoid due to a feeder being in there for too long and likely passing on a disease.


 What do you think would happen if your fish eats the feeder? They'll get the disease anyways. If the feeder is infected, chances are your fish will contract whatever disease it may be carrying. That is why you make sure you feeders are properly quarantined and treated before you introduce them to the tank. Also I think what Poly is trying to get through to you is that power feeding is the only way to go for juvenile gator gars because of their rapid growth. Anything less would be considered underfeeding. If you dont powerfeed these fish, you're putting their health in jeopardy. So feeding them "adequately" as you have stated is powerfeeding. If you can't house a fish without putting it's health at risk, you shouldnt keep it.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

Peacock said:


> BoomerSub said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any reason you wouldn't like a spotted, shortnose, or Florida gar instead? All of these look very much like the gator gar and stay much smaller, and would do well in your planned 180 for quite some time, if not for life. It makes no sense to get _A.spatula_ because it's the largest and then try to keep it from attaining the mammoth proportions that drew you to it in the first place.
> ...


 Yeah, that MUST be it. Not because I've NEVER seen an alligator gar for sale at any lfs, but tons of florida, spotted, etc gars. It's just an amazing fish, and I figure I could give it a better home (ie. dedication to care) in the short term than most other guys who would consider picking up that fish. I think by caring for him over the short term and then passing him on to someone (probably a friend) who would continue to care for him is hardly condemming that fish to hell. He'd be getting a helluva better chance with me/us as far as I'm concerned than with most "casual" fish owners. I hardly fall into the latter category.

As for your e-thuggishness, give it a rest, PeaCOCK.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

ColdCanuck said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > BoomerSub said:
> ...


 If you were more concerned than the casual fish owner you would relize
you can not keep this fish. Your so called keeping it in the short term being
an excuse for buying a fish you have no ability to keep holds no weight in my mind.

Your passing it off to someone else, that will only pass it to another holds a total disregard for the fish,

Either Keep and take resposability for it or do not buy it.
These are not fish that should be viewed as disposable when
they no longer fit your ability to keep them.

Be an example and care for them through their entire life or do not 
keep them at all and tell the LFS there is no market for fish such as this.

Do not even start with "It would be a better home" 
no you won't, you will not even Keep it by your own admission.
That is not caring for it. Also your other posts have stated clearly
your interest in reducing it's growth, This is not treating it any better.

Stop with the contradictions and backtracking,

Acknowledge you can not possably provide what this species needs.
Drop the idea or just stop asking or wanting anybodys advice.

It has been stated pretty much by all here to just not keep the fish,
some posts being pretty stupid and ignorant, but others giving reasons to think
twice. It seems you refuse to listen to anyone and to continue to say 
"YOU PEOPLE CAN NOT READ" it is you that is refusing to read.

I still offer my assistance to you Either way,
Dispite my disagreement with your reasons.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

> It has been stated pretty much by all here to just not keep the fish,


exactly what i was tying to say. You asked if it is a good idea to get it, EVERYONE has said not to, yet you still give the impression that you think you are doing the right thing by getting it anyway. I can' understand people like you, any idiot could realise by now what the right thing to do is, yet you are still acting like a moron. Like peacock said


> he wants braggin rights


.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

Polypterus said:


> ColdCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > Peacock said:
> ...


 People keep claiming that I want to reduce or stunt its growth. As soon as those accusations started coming, I CLARIFIED several times that I do not want to UNDERFEED the fish, I just don't want to OVER/POWERFEED it. I wanted to know how much food he required to be healthy. Period. I realize my initial post may have come across the wrong way, that's why I've clarified MANY times. So please don't keep going back to accusations that I want and plan to stunt the fish's growth(as so many others in this thread seem to keep doing) when it's been clarified.

Believe me, I know where everyone is coming from when they say it's not the best idea and that this fish will outgrow my tank rapidly. Most people in here are fish/animal lovers and I believe myself to be one as well. However, as I've said before, I've got a plan laid out for him that would last for the first 2 years of his life. Of course these fish are quite long-lived, but the friend I'd be giving him to is extremely knowledgeable and also very caring, and he's already said he has ideas of who might take the fish when the time comes.

Do people not go to zoos here? All the best zoos in the world, where animals are cared for (fed properly, cured of disease, healed of illnes/injury) by animal-loving people routinely send animals back and forth with other zoos. This is often done to ensure variety of species, but it is also done when animals outgrow their surroundings and can be given a more appropriate home. Is this wrong? Is everyone who responded here completely against zoos? If not, how is what I'm considering any different than what goes on at a zoo? And please don't tell me that zoos are all terrible places where animals are locked up in tiny cages for the amusement of the masses. If that's what you think, you haven't been to a (good) zoo in a very long time.

Again, I DO respect the concerns/comments of most of you that responded to this thread. I just don't think my plan is as horrible as people are making it out to be when they act as though I'm a 12 year old kid planning on keeping an arrowana in a 5 gallon tank for life! People have accused me of wanting this fish for pathetic bragging rights. *I* see it as a rare opportunity to care for a fantastic species that I would feel privileged to have in my home, and will do everything necessary to ensure he lives a long and happy life.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

so you are getting it anyway? fine.

Zoos are completely different to what you are doing. Zoos work together and KNOW they have a place to give animals. However this is not becuase they get too big most of the time, but to get a fresh gene pool for breeding. Also i know you didn't say this but don't think a zoo will take unwanted animals they get 1000's of people begging them to take crocs, large monitors giant fish etc from people who didn't plan ahead.

since you are getting it, make sure your friend doesn't change his mind. Also why doesn't he just get it from the place you are getting it? It would be better for him becuase he can keep it for longer.


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> so you are getting it anyway? fine.
> 
> Zoos are completely different to what you are doing. Zoos work together and KNOW they have a place to give animals. However this is not becuase they get too big most of the time, but to get a fresh gene pool for breeding. Also i know you didn't say this but don't think a zoo will take unwanted animals they get 1000's of people begging them to take crocs, large monitors giant fish etc from people who didn't plan ahead.
> 
> since you are getting it, make sure your friend doesn't change his mind. Also why doesn't he just get it from the place you are getting it? It would be better for him becuase he can keep it for longer.


 Have I not already said I have something lined up for when he outgrows my tank? Have I not also said my friend is already lining something up for when the gar outgrows his 180ish gallon tank (which means he's planning at least a year in advance - already)? So why compare me to people who foolishly purchase a caiman or other animal not even realizing that it becomes a 6-8 foot adult? I am not someone just buying on a pure whim, otherwise I wouldn'tve come here asking for feeding advice - I simply would've bought the fish and done as I liked. I'm getting tired of the improper comparisons and accusations.

As for my friend not getting the gar yet, he already has a number of large fish in his tank (asian -I believe- arrowana, tiger shovelnose, and a couple others). He will be passing at least one of these on to a friend of his so that the gar would have suitable space. HIS friend will be buying a larger tank in the months to come so that he's ready to take in my friend's fish. Is that enough detail for you?

Again, I hate to get snippy here, but I'm just tired of people acting as though I'm the proverbial teenaged moron who knows nothing about fish and simply picks up what he wants, when he wants, with no regard whatsover for the fish's needs.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

ColdCanuck said:


> WolfFish said:
> 
> 
> > so you are getting it anyway? fine.
> ...


 i think you need to re-read what i said...


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> ColdCanuck said:
> 
> 
> > WolfFish said:
> ...


 I thought I covered everything you said. What did I miss, in your mind?


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## PunkRockSkater39 (May 31, 2004)

nice i love gars


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

We all know the pitfalls of tankbusters, if ColdCanuck honestly says there are concrete plans down the road I'll take his word. He's shown considerable concern for the well being of his fishes in the past, I don't have any reason to doubt him.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> Be an example and care for them through their entire life or do not
> keep them at all and tell the LFS there is no market for fish such as this.
> 
> Do not even start with "It would be a better home"


ColdCanuck, I'd add that Poly made some good points. Giving a fish a better home by buying it from the fish store is bad. It encourages them to get more of these fish to put out for sale. The LFS needs to learn financial lessons and a purchase does the opposite!

Either way, like Poly said, we're here when you need advice or want to share pics! Good luck


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## ColdCanuck (Apr 13, 2004)

acestro said:


> We all know the pitfalls of tankbusters, if ColdCanuck honestly says there are concrete plans down the road I'll take his word. He's shown considerable concern for the well being of his fishes in the past, I don't have any reason to doubt him.


 Appreciate the support, man.


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## Malice (Feb 19, 2004)

honestly, unless your a millionaire and can afford a 15000 gallon tank.. dont buy it... but im sure it will fit in a 55G tank just fine.....


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## FootClanSkates (Apr 25, 2004)

IMO this thread should be locked. It's getting overboard with people saying the same thing over and over again.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

FootClanSkates said:


> IMO this thread should be locked. It's getting overboard with people saying the same thing over and over again.


 yep. and he still doesn't/didn't listen.


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