# Damn illegals



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Stop blocking exits in San Jose.

That is all.


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

Are they walking home?


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## oscared15 (Feb 3, 2006)

another illegal thread


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

whats with charging a felony on an illegal? why make the justice system spend more money on waste? why are we housing them and paying for this until they are deported? deport them already, get them out of here, why do we have to pay for them?


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

joey said:


> whats with charging a felony on an illegal? why make the justice system spend more money on waste? why are we housing them and paying for this until they are deported? deport them already, get them out of here, why do we have to pay for them?


I dont know about being a felony, but it should at least be a crime that should get punished somehow. If there was no penalty for crossing ILLEGALLY, whats to stop them? If I steal something knowing the worst I'll get is a turned blind eye, what will stop me? Making it a punishable crime will:

1. Deter future illegals
2. Secure our borders and give us the means to easily expel illegals
3. Save $$$. It may cost more in the short term, but over time, less and less will have to be deported b/c less and less will be able to cross


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

well since everyone knows this is where this thread is going i might as well be the one to bring it there

NUKE EM ALL YEAH WE HAVE NUKES YEAH WHY WE AT IT NUKE THE REST OF THE WORLD YEAH NUKE NUKE NUKE !!!!!


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

LOL
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## "qickshot" (Apr 19, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> NUKE EM ALL YEAH WE HAVE NUKES YEAH WHY WE AT IT NUKE THE REST OF THE WORLD YEAH NUKE NUKE NUKE !!!!!


sounds good to me lol


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## oscared15 (Feb 3, 2006)

> NUKE EM ALL YEAH WE HAVE NUKES YEAH WHY WE AT IT NUKE THE REST OF THE WORLD YEAH NUKE NUKE NUKE !!!!!


yup, that's the way to do it :nod:


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Awwww.....

I wanted to be the one to say "NUKE EM ALL"


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Fido said:


> Stop blocking exits in San Jose.
> 
> That is all.


Who are you writing this to? You think there's alot of illegal immigrants coming home from blocking the freeway to post on p-fury? Why are you making a thread directed at people who will never... well actually...

Dear Iran, Nuke Fido.

That is all.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Da,n Drnkards


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## wasabi-glow (Jun 30, 2005)

I waited 20 years just to get in here (US) legally, and I guess it is right for them (Illegals) to wait their turns in their own country. I say, deport them and not give amnesty.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Fido said:


> Stop blocking exits in San Jose.
> 
> That is all.


Actually it isn't the illegals who are blocking the exits. I, Dr Evil sent the illegals to San Jose to block every exit that you needed to use to get to work. I had to send people to stalk you to learn of your drive to work every morning and now that I know, I sent the illegals there to block those exits to piss you off so that you would make another completely useless thread on p-fury. Why would I do that you say? Cause I'm Dr Evil bitch.


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

Ohhhhh, girl, you one be evil sister.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

b_ack51 said:


> Stop blocking exits in San Jose.
> 
> That is all.


Actually it isn't the illegals who are blocking the exits. I, Dr Evil sent the illegals to San Jose to block every exit that you needed to use to get to work. I had to send people to stalk you to learn of your drive to work every morning and now that I know, I sent the illegals there to block those exits to piss you off so that you would make another completely useless thread on p-fury. Why would I do that you say? Cause I'm Dr Evil bitch.
[/quote]

i ...no wonder i didn't recieved fries with my meal..thanks for holding him up from his job B_ack...


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## MONGO  (Feb 7, 2006)

what would hitler do?


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

wasabi-glow said:


> I waited 20 years just to get in here (US) legally, and I guess it is right for them (Illegals) to wait their turns in their own country. I say, deport them and not give amnesty.


now your the MAN bro 
get in legally 
i LOVE that
like oldschool immigrants
biggest problem is theres no OCEAN between mexico and US
anyways 
you should run for some kinda office
and make people realize 
theres the right way and the wrong way
thanks for choosen america 
i hope you like it


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

people fail to see the big picture with the illegal immigrants...mostly all of them work in the agricultural industry, therefore deporting them would take those jobs FROM that industry...now, that's all well and good, but these people are making less than minimum wage, a DOCUMENTED worker MUST make minimum wage BY LAW. so, get rid of the immigrants, and hire all kinds of legal citizens right? well, now the cost to produce the product goes way way way up, now your milk is costing 4 dollars a gallon, your break is 3 dollars a loaf, etc..etc...cost of basic living would go through the roof and people wouldnt be able to afford it with the already super high health costs, gas prices, insurance...etc...in some ways illegal immigrants actually stabalize our economy, and there's definately a better way of going about it than deporting them all at once.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

what i dont under stnad is why the INS wasnt out in force loading buses yesterday and sending teh striaght for the board tehn giving them a bill for transporttation when they kick there asses out of the country..

sure most of them come over and work two jobs and perform a service for the people here but it drives down wages for those jobs so less americans will take them, the other problem is poor americans who still think there too good to perform the tasks the illegals do.. they need to get off there high horse and and get to work.. plus most of the money theillegals make goes back to there families in other countries not back into our economy.. not to mention some of them steal our SSN numbers to get jobs and teh fact that its a igger issue of boarder security, although the 9/11 attackers where here "legally" so the whole arguement of boarder security for the war on terror is kind of bull sh*t since theres no proof any of them are here illegally..


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> sure most of them come over and work two jobs and perform a service for the people here but it drives down wages for those jobs so less americans will take them, the other problem is poor americans who still think there too good to perform the tasks the illegals do.. they need to get off there high horse and and get to work.. plus most of the money theillegals make goes back to there families in other countries not back into our economy.. not to mention some of them steal our SSN numbers to get jobs and teh fact that its a igger issue of boarder security, although the 9/11 attackers where here "legally" so the whole arguement of boarder security for the war on terror is kind of bull sh*t since theres no proof any of them are here illegally..


That's all an issue except for the americans getting off their high horses. Most americans won't do these jobs that mexican immigrants are doing because of pay. If you're getting paid $6.00 or $7.00/hr to pick lettuce all day or you can make $10.00/hr at a warehouse as a lower class american which are you gonna do?

Sure the price of lettuce, tomatos whatever else in a grocery store produced by illegals currently might go up. But knowing my stuff was made by legal hardworking citizens I would what ever it cost for those items.

As far as border security, no I don't see a ton of terrorist's coming over the border anytime soon, but I think the whole idea is they could if they wanted to. Not to mention the millions or probably billions of dollars of drugs brought into america every year over the border. Not just from mexico but from further down regions like columbia, etc. Just the other week a large ford truck rammed border patrol and have a million dollars of cheeba in the back.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> people fail to see the big picture with the illegal immigrants...mostly all of them work in the agricultural industry, therefore deporting them would take those jobs FROM that industry...now, that's all well and good, but these people are making less than minimum wage, a DOCUMENTED worker MUST make minimum wage BY LAW. so, get rid of the immigrants, and hire all kinds of legal citizens right? well, now the cost to produce the product goes way way way up, now your milk is costing 4 dollars a gallon, your break is 3 dollars a loaf, etc..etc...cost of basic living would go through the roof and people wouldnt be able to afford it with the already super high health costs, gas prices, insurance...etc...in some ways illegal immigrants actually stabalize our economy, and there's definately a better way of going about it than deporting them all at once.


which is why they're considering the guest worker program. and the economy wouldn't need stabilizing if americans weren't so money hungry in the first place. everything needs to be done cheaper so they can fill their pockets better. hire illegals for ridiculous wages, outsource from china or india so that they don't need to pay americans who want bigger paychecks. globalization, baby


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i agree hyphen, but that's the fact, americans ARE money hungry...look at the top companies in the world, and look at all the corporate crooks, all these douche bags could give all their money to 20,000 people, and those 20,000 people would retire wealthier than 99% of america. thats how rich these cows are, and yet, they still have to steal. why do you think they hire illegals? cheaper labor, and until now, nothing has really been pursued. but yes, i agree, it wouldnt be a problem if americans werent so money hungry, but you'll never make americans less money hungry. the rich get richer and the poor die trying.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

hyphen said:


> people fail to see the big picture with the illegal immigrants...mostly all of them work in the agricultural industry, therefore deporting them would take those jobs FROM that industry...now, that's all well and good, but these people are making less than minimum wage, a DOCUMENTED worker MUST make minimum wage BY LAW. so, get rid of the immigrants, and hire all kinds of legal citizens right? well, now the cost to produce the product goes way way way up, now your milk is costing 4 dollars a gallon, your break is 3 dollars a loaf, etc..etc...cost of basic living would go through the roof and people wouldnt be able to afford it with the already super high health costs, gas prices, insurance...etc...in some ways illegal immigrants actually stabalize our economy, and there's definately a better way of going about it than deporting them all at once.


which is why they're considering the guest worker program. and the economy wouldn't need stabilizing if americans weren't so money hungry in the first place. everything needs to be done cheaper so they can fill their pockets better. hire illegals for ridiculous wages, outsource from china or india so that they don't need to pay americans who want bigger paychecks. globalization, baby








[/quote]

and another f--d up thing is you can hire an illegal and if you are busted employing illegals you face fines BUT if you have an illegal working for you and dont give them the saem rights as a citizen you can also get screwed so its like lose lose for employers and teh illegals get all the same rights as citizens?


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> people fail to see the big picture with the illegal immigrants...mostly all of them work in the agricultural industry, therefore deporting them would take those jobs FROM that industry...now, that's all well and good, but these people are making less than minimum wage, a DOCUMENTED worker MUST make minimum wage BY LAW. so, get rid of the immigrants, and hire all kinds of legal citizens right? well, now the cost to produce the product goes way way way up, now your milk is costing 4 dollars a gallon, your break is 3 dollars a loaf, etc..etc...cost of basic living would go through the roof and people wouldnt be able to afford it with the already super high health costs, gas prices, insurance...etc...in some ways illegal immigrants actually stabalize our economy, and there's definately a better way of going about it than deporting them all at once.


These illegals need to get the proper work visa's, and temparary work permits.

Thats the problem, they dont, if they did they wouldnt be illegals...........lol......


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


No it's not but canada has a stable economy with benifits such as free health care so I don't think that every canadian's dream is to come to the u.s. True terrorists could and probably would come through that border too though so that border needs to be on lock down as well if it already isn't.

Oh and I already pay $3.00+ a gallon for milk and $2.00 a gallon for bread so what's a dollar?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

i guess bush ran out of was to export jobs so now hes importing workers to export what few jobs have not yet been exported...

actually what this whole debate seems to be is for the congress to propose harsh rulings against illegals to create upheaval then the republicans can cut back the legislation and give the illegals a chance to become ciitzens so that they look like the heros and can gain more of the minority vote from the democrats.. its all one big game..


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

i know of several spots in new hampshire vermont and especially maine where you can pass from america into canada undetected...absolutely no border patrol or anything...sure its several hours out of the way, but if you dont wanna get caught smuggling cuban cigars in, or snakeheads...that's the way to go...tell me that THAT's safe...?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

to sum everything up, america needs a lot of work. i think a lot of the illegal issues come from lack of knowledge of how to gain legal citizenship. if you look at it from their perspective, it may be harder to figure out how to contact the ins and apply. and whatever illegals ARE granted access to work in america (if it passes)...well, they'd require regular wages too since they're technically not illegal anymore. in reality, not much would be different and the cost of living would, in theory, still go up.


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> actually what this whole debate seems to be is for the congress to propose harsh rulings against illegals to create upheaval then the republicans can cut back the legislation and give the illegals a chance to become ciitzens so that they look like the heros and can gain more of the minority vote from the democrats.. its all one big game..


That's IMO a major part of it. Look at most of your major produce fruit farmers, and the type of companys that would hire illegals? I bet a majority(maybe not all)are republican , and it's not a big thing for rich rebuplicans to kick a few dollars towards a republican campaign if you're passing laws/not enforcing borders to help them out. I still haven't figured out why democrats are now jumping on this "let illegals stay" bandwagon though. I guess they're trying to win back the hispanic vote.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

a study on the cost of agricultuaral goods found that labor only accounted for 10% of its cost. On avergage, the price may increase a couple cents. Also, the *center for immigration studies* (bolded for blind people) studies found that illegals contribute about $16 billion a year to social security(many through fake SSN's) which they do not benefit from but the net cost of providing them schooling, healthcare, jails etc is over $10 billion a year. If these illegals are legalized, the net cost of this will jump to $30 billion a year. Also, talking about how much they save us is a crock. They found that on average, the lower skilled american loses about $1700 a year due to illegals. Tell that to your neighbor who just lost that much b/c an illegal will work for a little less. Also, the average illegal earns about $9/hr, not minimum wage.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

dont claim that bullshit without posting a link...



> They found that on average, the lower skilled american loses about $1700 a year due to illegals.


who's they?


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

Don't question the "They"


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

r1dermon said:


> dont claim that bullshit without posting a link...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ask and ye shall receive...also asking nicely would do a little better. sheesh. If you read my post, i got my info from the center for immigration studies.

"American workers lose a staggering $190 billion annually in wage depression due to mass immigration, with an average reduction of $1,700 annually for native-born workers"

http://www.carryingcapacity.org/alerts/alert0205.html

Thats the first link i found. I'm sure you can find more.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

harvard also did a huge study on the effect of illegals on the us work force and economy and if there was a better control of illegals unemployment would drop drastically and taxes could be lowered since theere would be less people leaching off society and more people contributing to the system leglly...

this is the paper that the numbers for didye's site uses

http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~GBorjas/Papers...%20workers'


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

think of it this way....supporting amnesty is supporting george bush! say no to george bush!


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

joey said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is *almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.*
[/quote]

And you would know this how..... you sick sick man.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

joey said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.
[/quote]

yeah is you go through a major boarder crossing but if you take a 4x4 trail in the woods in new hamphire or maine theres little to no security, a couple of my buddies went up there for a fishing camping trip, they had a 4x4 and samll aluminum boat and where exploring lakes in the middle of nowhere fishing and need to get gas so they took a trail out ofthe woods and didnt even realise they ended up in canada..


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

b_ack51 said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is *almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.*
[/quote]

And you would know this how..... you sick sick man.
[/quote]
damn it, ive been figuered out for the pedo i really am, i must now run and hide in shame from all the members of this site


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## G23.40SW (Sep 30, 2005)

joey said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is *almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.*
[/quote]

And you would know this how..... you sick sick man.
[/quote]
damn it, ive been figuered out for the pedo i really am, i must now run and hide in shame from all the members of this site
[/quote]

I send my fart in your general retreating direction.


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## CichlidAddict (Jul 1, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.
[/quote]

yeah is you go through a major boarder crossing but if you take a 4x4 trail in the woods in new hamphire or maine theres little to no security, a couple of my buddies went up there for a fishing camping trip, they had a 4x4 and samll aluminum boat and where exploring lakes in the middle of nowhere fishing and need to get gas so they took a trail out ofthe woods and didnt even realise they ended up in canada..
[/quote]

I'll second that. I go back and forth between the U.S. and Canada all the time when I go canoeing/fishing in the Boundary Waters in northern MN. There's nobody around and hundreds of miles of woods/lakes on the border that nobody cares about.


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

CichlidAddict said:


> canadas boarderisnt much better then mexico either, tons of drugs and peopel come intothte country illegally from canada and we need to but an end to the flow of douchbags from the north into this country!!! j/k


whoa whoa whoa, trust me man the border up along the border is very tough, i am very legal here and the last time i went through i was almost held for nothing, trust me, the canadian border is almost as tight as a 10 year old virgin.
[/quote]

yeah is you go through a major boarder crossing but if you take a 4x4 trail in the woods in new hamphire or maine theres little to no security, a couple of my buddies went up there for a fishing camping trip, they had a 4x4 and samll aluminum boat and where exploring lakes in the middle of nowhere fishing and need to get gas so they took a trail out ofthe woods and didnt even realise they ended up in canada..
[/quote]

I'll second that. I go back and forth between the U.S. and Canada all the time when I go canoeing/fishing in the Boundary Waters in northern MN. There's nobody around and hundreds of miles of woods/lakes on the border that nobody cares about.
[/quote]
shoot, let me know where you go...... i better stop before they start watching us all again


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

:nod: i've been accross the border 5 times, in three different states, and i've never gone through border patrol.







maine is definately the easiest, but there are spots in vermont that are just as easy, and not nearly as long of a drive (7-9 hours).


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## joey'd (Oct 26, 2005)

r1dermon said:


> :nod: i've been accross the border 5 times, in three different states, and i've never gone through border patrol.:rasp: maine is definately the easiest, but there are spots in vermont that are just as easy, and not nearly as long of a drive (7-9 hours).


well ya, i mean the borders near new brunswick arent that bad, but further west whoa


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

This sunday, as I was strolling through downtown San Diego (the Gaslamp district), I found myself eyeing these beautiful latina females in a big group and figured _hmmm, theres got to be at least two that'll find me cute and attractive_, so I approached them ONLY to find myself interrupted by loud horns honking away. I focused my attention away from the cute girls and towards the general direction of the honking distruptive horns, then my curiousity kicked in and had me walked towards the horn to see what all the commotion was about.

At first, I was confused, because all I saw were mexican flags drapped on cars, flying on poles. I looked at my surroundings an noticed that a large crowd of people were walking towards a BIGGER crowd. In the midst of the clouds were mexican and american flags, and I thought _ooooh, a protest!_. Anyways, long story short, I spent the majority of my sunday walking the peaceful hispanic demonstrators, and listening to their cause. Here are some pictures from my camera phone.









Protestors outside the San Diego Courthouse









Mounted police BEHIND the protestors









Protestors carrying mexican flag









Mass of people moving away from courthouse









Protestors carrying both american and mexican flags...near harbor









The security guy at protest

...Did you know that one of the arguements at the rally was that america was using illegal immigration and immigration reform as a scapegoat to shift the view from Iraq to illegal aliens

Anyways, the main idea that I got out of this protest is that when young beautiful mexican women grow old, they become big, obese women who waddle.


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## sicklid-holic (Mar 25, 2005)

Illegals should be deported, they dont belong here. Most if not all never pay taxes, and the most if not all the money they make goes back to Mexico. We are paying for there health care and there kids schools? WTF....... 
They are a bunch of pest, like roaches and pigeons. Solution is to deport them all, and any who hires or give them work will face high fines or jail times. That should fixed the problem.


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

yea... kick em out....watch Californias economy implode... Wah..Wah they take jobs... if they were all gone tomorrow, not a single person whining about jobs would do what they do for the money they make...

I spent most of my life in califonia, from southern to northern and i know exactly how the San Joaquin Valley operates... The industry cannot sustain itself on the unionized garbage that most states employ for uneducated labor (see lovely Denver, CO last week for an example...bus drivers whining because 40k/yr wasnt enough to drive a car around all day). If you dont like your produce and want to see Californias economy go from bad to non existant (and being its in the top 5 economies in the world, the rest of the country will follow), keep bitching for immigrants to be deported...


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Not for nuthin, but illegals work 10x harder than most American Teenagers at the menial jobs that Amercian teenagers used to have, like bus-boys and dishwashers and gardeners and stuff like that. If more of America's teens weren't so lazy and unreliable and judgemental about what's a "cool" job and what isn't and weren't so spoiled by their parents then most of the illegals would have no reason to be here b/c 90% of the jobs they have would already be filled by American teens.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

cadeucsb said:


> yea... kick em out....watch Californias economy implode... Wah..Wah they take jobs... if they were all gone tomorrow, not a single person whining about jobs would do what they do for the money they make...
> 
> I spent most of my life in califonia, from southern to northern and i know exactly how the San Joaquin Valley operates... The industry cannot sustain itself on the unionized garbage that most states employ for uneducated labor (see lovely Denver, CO last week for an example...bus drivers whining because 40k/yr wasnt enough to drive a car around all day). If you dont like your produce and want to see Californias economy go from bad to non existant (and being its in the top 5 economies in the world, the rest of the country will follow), keep bitching for immigrants to be deported...


We aren't bitching about immigrants...my parents were immigrants...im bitching about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Do we need 12 million illegals in this country? Last time in 1986 when amnesty was done, there were 3 million illegals. The country seemed fine back then. Yea, they do work hard....but earning $9 no tax ain't chump change. The only reason people dont take those jobs is b/c they do not consider it a living wage. However, the reason it isn't a living wage is b/c illegals are willing to work for less....thus lowering it. Want examples?

1. My mexican coworker who is legal used to install cabling for a company. He earned $25 per job. However, he lost his job b/c illegal mexicans worked for less. HIs manager wouldn't tell him how much he paid....he just lost his contract. FYI, this was Verizon.

2. After katrina, a construction company hired 70 black workers to build houses. These people hadn't been paid for months and were elated to finally earn something. After driving 50 miles to the work site and working for a couple hours, the manager came out and said "ok you can go home, the mexicans(illegal) came and they are working for less". Thats bullshit. This was a story from one of the people who found them the jobs. She said that some of the grown men were crying. That is one reason you dont see blacks protesting with the mexicans...they're competing for their jobs.

*its funny...its ok to outsource jobs to mexico, but not india right? At least india doesn't mooch off healthcare, schools, etc

heres an interesting fact. Illegal college students can go to college paying the in-state tuition...however legal students out of state have to pay out of state tuition...aint that a bitch? Illegal and you pay less.


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## sicklid-holic (Mar 25, 2005)

Im so sick to my stomach of how much these people are actually costing us in the long run. 
BTW, have any you guys seen Hilary Clinton and that Fat Kennedy guy said in the Illegal Immigration Rally. Hilary said these Illegal aliens are the future face of America and Fat Kennedy said about making them US citizens. What the Hell???


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

It's all political. Deport mexicans and people who employ them have two options. Pay a higher wage(prices on SOME goods would increase) or go out of business. Simple as that. I personally would rather pay $6.00 a head of lettuce and save a boatload in taxes and not have to worry about some mexican stealing my SSN# to make himself look legal. And yeah my dad is an immigrant, a legal one.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

as i had suspected and posted yesterday..



> Frist and Hastert also criticized House Democrats, who, they said, opposed efforts by Republicans to strip the provision from the bill before it passed


from yesterday:



nismo driver said:


> actually what this whole debate seems to be is for the congress to propose harsh rulings against illegals to create upheaval then the republicans can cut back the legislation and give the illegals a chance to become ciitzens so that they look like the heros and can gain more of the minority vote from the democrats.. its all one big game..


the republicans are backing down but making it clear the democrats are not backing down.. using these tactics to gain minority vote for elections..


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## CichlidAddict (Jul 1, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> actually what this whole debate seems to be is for the congress to propose harsh rulings against illegals to create upheaval then the republicans can cut back the legislation and give the illegals a chance to become ciitzens so that they look like the heros and can gain more of the minority vote from the democrats.. its all one big game..


the republicans are backing down but making it clear the democrats are not backing down.. using these tactics to gain minority vote for elections..
[/quote]

Politics are fun.








* throws up *


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

diddye said:


> yea... kick em out....watch Californias economy implode... Wah..Wah they take jobs... if they were all gone tomorrow, not a single person whining about jobs would do what they do for the money they make...
> 
> I spent most of my life in califonia, from southern to northern and i know exactly how the San Joaquin Valley operates... The industry cannot sustain itself on the unionized garbage that most states employ for uneducated labor (see lovely Denver, CO last week for an example...bus drivers whining because 40k/yr wasnt enough to drive a car around all day). If you dont like your produce and want to see Californias economy go from bad to non existant (and being its in the top 5 economies in the world, the rest of the country will follow), keep bitching for immigrants to be deported...


We aren't bitching about immigrants...my parents were immigrants...im bitching about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Do we need 12 million illegals in this country? Last time in 1986 when amnesty was done, there were 3 million illegals. The country seemed fine back then. Yea, they do work hard....but earning $9 no tax ain't chump change. The only reason people dont take those jobs is b/c they do not consider it a living wage. However, the reason it isn't a living wage is b/c illegals are willing to work for less....thus lowering it. Want examples?

1. My mexican coworker who is legal used to install cabling for a company. He earned $25 per job. However, he lost his job b/c illegal mexicans worked for less. HIs manager wouldn't tell him how much he paid....he just lost his contract. FYI, this was Verizon.

2. After katrina, a construction company hired 70 black workers to build houses. These people hadn't been paid for months and were elated to finally earn something. After driving 50 miles to the work site and working for a couple hours, the manager came out and said "ok you can go home, the mexicans(illegal) came and they are working for less". Thats bullshit. This was a story from one of the people who found them the jobs. She said that some of the grown men were crying. That is one reason you dont see blacks protesting with the mexicans...they're competing for their jobs.

*its funny...its ok to outsource jobs to mexico, but not india right? At least india doesn't mooch off healthcare, schools, etc

heres an interesting fact. Illegal college students can go to college paying the in-state tuition...however legal students out of state have to pay out of state tuition...aint that a bitch? Illegal and you pay less.
[/quote]

Yes, I am talking Illegals...the ones that work for cents and sustain the ag industry of the US and keep California's economy on par with great economies of major countries... You think that if we boot them out and save all the tax dollars etc on programs for them that the govt is gonna redirect that money to the citizens that take over the jobs (not that anyone would take those jobs anyway...i dont see any citizens out in the fields currently and there is nothing stopping people)? If so, your insane..we have Iran bombings to pay for now







. No one will do this work without illegal immigrants, no citizen will work for that little $$...which brings up a whole labor ethics issue... but at the very core of it all is that if you kick the 'illegals' out and replace them with minimum wage workers....bye bye economy...you dont understand economics if you think otherwise.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

actually, as much as i hate to support diddye(or whatever his name is), he did post a stat that the average illegal immigrant makes 9 dollars an hour...almost 3 dollars more than minimum wage, and i'll tell you right now, i've got 3 jobs, and only one of them gives me more than that...and even that is 9.50.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

cadeucsb said:


> yea... kick em out....watch Californias economy implode... Wah..Wah they take jobs... if they were all gone tomorrow, not a single person whining about jobs would do what they do for the money they make...
> 
> I spent most of my life in califonia, from southern to northern and i know exactly how the San Joaquin Valley operates... The industry cannot sustain itself on the unionized garbage that most states employ for uneducated labor (see lovely Denver, CO last week for an example...bus drivers whining because 40k/yr wasnt enough to drive a car around all day). If you dont like your produce and want to see Californias economy go from bad to non existant (and being its in the top 5 economies in the world, the rest of the country will follow), keep bitching for immigrants to be deported...


We aren't bitching about immigrants...my parents were immigrants...im bitching about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Do we need 12 million illegals in this country? Last time in 1986 when amnesty was done, there were 3 million illegals. The country seemed fine back then. Yea, they do work hard....but earning $9 no tax ain't chump change. The only reason people dont take those jobs is b/c they do not consider it a living wage. However, the reason it isn't a living wage is b/c illegals are willing to work for less....thus lowering it. Want examples?

1. My mexican coworker who is legal used to install cabling for a company. He earned $25 per job. However, he lost his job b/c illegal mexicans worked for less. HIs manager wouldn't tell him how much he paid....he just lost his contract. FYI, this was Verizon.

2. After katrina, a construction company hired 70 black workers to build houses. These people hadn't been paid for months and were elated to finally earn something. After driving 50 miles to the work site and working for a couple hours, the manager came out and said "ok you can go home, the mexicans(illegal) came and they are working for less". Thats bullshit. This was a story from one of the people who found them the jobs. She said that some of the grown men were crying. That is one reason you dont see blacks protesting with the mexicans...they're competing for their jobs.

*its funny...its ok to outsource jobs to mexico, but not india right? At least india doesn't mooch off healthcare, schools, etc

heres an interesting fact. Illegal college students can go to college paying the in-state tuition...however legal students out of state have to pay out of state tuition...aint that a bitch? Illegal and you pay less.
[/quote]

Yes, I am talking Illegals...the ones that work for cents and sustain the ag industry of the US and keep California's economy on par with great economies of major countries... You think that if we boot them out and save all the tax dollars etc on programs for them that the govt is gonna redirect that money to the citizens that take over the jobs (not that anyone would take those jobs anyway...i dont see any citizens out in the fields currently and there is nothing stopping people)? If so, your insane..we have Iran bombings to pay for now







. No one will do this work without illegal immigrants, no citizen will work for that little $$...which brings up a whole labor ethics issue... but at the very core of it all is that *if you kick the 'illegals' out and replace them with minimum wage workers....bye bye economy.*..you dont understand economics if you think otherwise.
[/quote]

This is a mythical position that claims that without illegals our economy would fall in the gutter. If our economy cannot function normally by paying native citizens a living wage to support the cost of living, then the system is bankrupt. This myth, of course, overlooks the fact that millions of Americans, without illegals, could be taken off of welfare and given a choice to begin with entry level jobs, as well as skilled jobs like construction, that are often the province of the illegals at the present time. At what population level (critical watershed) of third world immigrants does the situation have to reach before the naysayers will start thinking in terms of common sense?-30 million, 50 million, 80 million?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

one thing that i have seen is that the richest areas employee teh most imigrants but they are usually paid fairly, when i lived on colorado in aspen there where ALOT of illegals working in hotels and resturants.. when i go to the hamptons in the summer there are alot of "migrant workers" that work in the resturants, do landscaping, house cleaning and also worka wineries and other farms.. again they are all paid fairly..

one reasons the average illegal makes more then minimu wage is that employeers can afford to pay them more since they cant pay them legally, the employer doesnt pay taxes for the worke, money saved. they usually dont giev them health ins. money saved ect... so if minimum wages are 7 something an hour it really cost more like 9 or more for the employeer..

the other element of my theory is that the illegals are more willing to live in a small place with 5 or 6 people, so there cost of living is lower and they all throw in on one car ect.. americans are too uppity for there own good.. no one wants to live in a small crowded house and all jam into a car to work for 15 hours a day for barely more then minimum wage because we all have the atitude that we are owed something.. many of us are educated and are capable of performing more skilled higher paying job so its justifiable but there are a tremendous amount of people who arent skilled who refuse to take these jobs that the illegals do..

i worked in a pizza place with a couple of guys from honduras and ecuador and they worked there asses off and where more then happy to be here to have the opertunity to wash dishs for 6 or 7 bucks and hour so on a personal level it can be sad for us to sit here and tell them to go back to there country and suffer but the fact is they need to come here legally..

the thing i dont understand is if you have all these eager hard working determinded peopl who are willing to risk so much to come here then why cant they develope a strong work force and economy in there own country? i realise part of it is labor laws and greed, coorupt govt. and corporations exploting oportunities to get very under paid labor.. why doesnt our govt work withthese countries to develope a solution to there internal problems to solve the reasons for all these people coming here illegally?

sure globalization and nafta and other free trade things are sold as being the ideas to support the answer to these problems but theres is too much corporate greed controlling it all..

uuuuuhhhh sorry guys didnt mean to rant.. if you do happen to read this then tell me what you think


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)




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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> one thing that i have seen is that the richest areas employee teh most imigrants but they are usually paid fairly, when i lived on colorado in aspen there where ALOT of illegals working in hotels and resturants.. when i go to the hamptons in the summer there are alot of "migrant workers" that work in the resturants, do landscaping, house cleaning and also worka wineries and other farms.. again they are all paid fairly..
> 
> one reasons the average illegal makes more then minimu wage is that employeers can afford to pay them more since they cant pay them legally, the employer doesnt pay taxes for the worke, money saved. they usually dont giev them health ins. money saved ect... so if minimum wages are 7 something an hour it really cost more like 9 or more for the employeer..
> 
> ...


Well, i read your rant and heres my take. The immigration explosion in the past was done legally to fill the nation w/ needed labor. We aren't exactly a small nation anymore and thus we need to keep tabs. The arguement that illegals work hard so they should stay is imo unfair. Its unfair that people around the world have to wait years, fill out papers, and pay fees to come into this country. However, mexicans skip all of that and come. What makes mexicans so much more speical then africans, asians, europeans, etc that want to come here. Wouldn't they all work hard also? Im sure people in china who work in sweat shops wouldn't mind coming here for a low wage. Also, your idea that their own nation is crappy so they should come here is also unfair. People who are against iraq say they should fix their own country if they want freedom. Well mexicans should fix their own country also if they want economic freedom. Letting so many people come here means the US is not a nation. It does not have borders. If we take all the poor of the world, we basically become a 3rd world nation. There has to be limits. Nobody is saying to stop immigration....we're saying stop illegal immigration and have reasonable limits to those numbers.


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

Fargo said:


> yea... kick em out....watch Californias economy implode... Wah..Wah they take jobs... if they were all gone tomorrow, not a single person whining about jobs would do what they do for the money they make...
> 
> I spent most of my life in califonia, from southern to northern and i know exactly how the San Joaquin Valley operates... The industry cannot sustain itself on the unionized garbage that most states employ for uneducated labor (see lovely Denver, CO last week for an example...bus drivers whining because 40k/yr wasnt enough to drive a car around all day). If you dont like your produce and want to see Californias economy go from bad to non existant (and being its in the top 5 economies in the world, the rest of the country will follow), keep bitching for immigrants to be deported...


We aren't bitching about immigrants...my parents were immigrants...im bitching about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Do we need 12 million illegals in this country? Last time in 1986 when amnesty was done, there were 3 million illegals. The country seemed fine back then. Yea, they do work hard....but earning $9 no tax ain't chump change. The only reason people dont take those jobs is b/c they do not consider it a living wage. However, the reason it isn't a living wage is b/c illegals are willing to work for less....thus lowering it. Want examples?

1. My mexican coworker who is legal used to install cabling for a company. He earned $25 per job. However, he lost his job b/c illegal mexicans worked for less. HIs manager wouldn't tell him how much he paid....he just lost his contract. FYI, this was Verizon.

2. After katrina, a construction company hired 70 black workers to build houses. These people hadn't been paid for months and were elated to finally earn something. After driving 50 miles to the work site and working for a couple hours, the manager came out and said "ok you can go home, the mexicans(illegal) came and they are working for less". Thats bullshit. This was a story from one of the people who found them the jobs. She said that some of the grown men were crying. That is one reason you dont see blacks protesting with the mexicans...they're competing for their jobs.

*its funny...its ok to outsource jobs to mexico, but not india right? At least india doesn't mooch off healthcare, schools, etc

heres an interesting fact. Illegal college students can go to college paying the in-state tuition...however legal students out of state have to pay out of state tuition...aint that a bitch? Illegal and you pay less.
[/quote]

Yes, I am talking Illegals...the ones that work for cents and sustain the ag industry of the US and keep California's economy on par with great economies of major countries... You think that if we boot them out and save all the tax dollars etc on programs for them that the govt is gonna redirect that money to the citizens that take over the jobs (not that anyone would take those jobs anyway...i dont see any citizens out in the fields currently and there is nothing stopping people)? If so, your insane..we have Iran bombings to pay for now







. No one will do this work without illegal immigrants, no citizen will work for that little $$...which brings up a whole labor ethics issue... but at the very core of it all is that *if you kick the 'illegals' out and replace them with minimum wage workers....bye bye economy.*..you dont understand economics if you think otherwise.
[/quote]

This is a mythical position that claims that without illegals our economy would fall in the gutter. If our economy cannot function normally by paying native citizens a living wage to support the cost of living, then the system is bankrupt. This myth, of course, overlooks the fact that millions of Americans, without illegals, could be taken off of welfare and given a choice to begin with entry level jobs, as well as skilled jobs like construction, that are often the province of the illegals at the present time. At what population level (critical watershed) of third world immigrants does the situation have to reach before the naysayers will start thinking in terms of common sense?-30 million, 50 million, 80 million?
[/quote]

sorry bud...maybe that logic works when talking about illegals making near minimum wage... but it doesnt apply to california... Californias economy barely squeaks by year over year... And if you go in there and replace people that are making cents on the dollar with minimum wage earners (who will then just complain they dont get paid enough)... the economy will faulter... Its actually very simple macroeconomic theory... drive the cost way up...prices of of goods go through the roof...demand falls...industry fails....

And being its the industry that supports the 5th biggest economy in the world...when that fails... a lot will follow and fail as a result. It is the one industry we havent completely outsourced and it will get outsourced if we drive out all illegals and supplant them with minimum wage earners... thus increasing our trade deficit and further hurting our economy

Thats as much of a myth as every single one of my textbooks in college were "myths"


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2006)

I agree Nismo, Canada needs to stop letting Americans come into Canada illegally, our weed and health care costs are through the roof









J/P.

I dont really understand the whole illegal immigrant thing, I guess would have to live in the Southern States to get it.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

cadeucsb said:


> I agree Nismo, Canada needs to stop letting Americans come into Canada illegally, our weed and health care costs are through the roof
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Imagine the problems canada has with illegal chinese..but multiply that by millions more poeple.


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

diddye said:


> I agree Nismo, Canada needs to stop letting Americans come into Canada illegally, our weed and health care costs are through the roof
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Imagine the problems canada has with illegal chinese..but multiply that by millions more poeple.
[/quote]

"the market will correct itself"---thats a rationalization to kick out illegals because you think they are stealing from you.

Were not talking about a subtle shift in industry wages...were talking an exponential increase in an industry that barely survives as is...there are no "fat pockets" in the internal US ag world... it barely stays afloat as is with increased outsourcing and importation of cheaper goods.

That kind of shift... isnt a simple market correction...


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

cadeucsb said:


> "the market will correct itself"---thats a rationalization to kick out illegals because you think they are stealing from you.
> 
> Were not talking about a subtle shift in industry wages...were talking an exponential increase in an industry that barely survives as is...there are no "fat pockets" in the internal US ag world... it barely stays afloat as is with increased outsourcing and importation of cheaper goods.
> 
> That kind of shift... isnt a simple market correction...


one fo the biggest problems with the agro industry is teh distrobution of federal funding, most of the money goes to the larger farming groups that erally need less of it and us the funding to buy up the smaller farms, the smaller farms cannot come close to competeing wages with the larger subsidised operations.. so many of the issues with that whole industry arent jsut labor but the govt and management of the farms. plus nature hasnt exactly been helping out weather wise for the crops to really produce as well as they could so there ahs been increased expense in irrigation


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

cadeucsb said:


> I agree Nismo, Canada needs to stop letting Americans come into Canada illegally, our weed and health care costs are through the roof
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Imagine the problems canada has with illegal chinese..but multiply that by millions more poeple.
[/quote]

"the market will correct itself"---thats a rationalization to kick out illegals because you think they are stealing from you.

Were not talking about a subtle shift in industry wages...were talking an exponential increase in an industry that barely survives as is...there are no "fat pockets" in the internal US ag world... it barely stays afloat as is with increased outsourcing and importation of cheaper goods.

That kind of shift... isnt a simple market correction...
[/quote]

I agree with Diddye. The market needs to correct itself before it's too late. There is no excuse for the insourcing of hotel, restaurant, construction, or many other jobs. What the illegal immigration proponents refuse to address is my earlier point: if the economy cannot support a living wage for a legal American working to survive the cost of living, then the system is bankrupt and needs to be overhauled. Continuing on the same course of big govt. subsidies to corporations, insourcing and outsourcing, welfare/warfare economy, we will head for a depression. Again, address the point, when do we accept that we've hit critical mass when it comes to illegals? 20 million-40million-100 million? So far the protests have remained civilized. Add too many people to the mix, and they may not. Imagine the authorities attempting to contain millions of rioters and then tell me illegal aliens are critical to the economy. No one wants to think long-term. Again, if welfare recip[ients in this country are forced to either work in jobs normally going to illegals, or starve, believe me, they'll work. Our political correctness is someday going to destroy this country.


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## CichlidAddict (Jul 1, 2005)

Fargo said:


> I agree with Diddye. The market needs to correct itself before it's too late. There is no excuse for the insourcing of hotel, restaurant, construction, or many other jobs. What the illegal immigration proponents refuse to address is my earlier point: if the economy cannot support a living wage for a legal American working to survive the cost of living, then the system is bankrupt and needs to be overhauled. Continuing on the same course of big govt. subsidies to corporations, insourcing and outsourcing, welfare/warfare economy, we will head for a depression. Again, address the point, when do we accept that we've hit critical mass when it comes to illegals? 20 million-40million-100 million? So far the protests have remained civilized. Add too many people to the mix, and they may not. Imagine the authorities attempting to contain millions of rioters and then tell me illegal aliens are critical to the economy. No one wants to think long-term. Again, if welfare recip[ients in this country are forced to either work in jobs normally going to illegals, or starve, believe me, they'll work. Our political correctness is someday going to destroy this country.


Quoted because I was thinking the exact same thing. 
If it is, in fact, true that the Cali ag market has become dependent on illegal workers, then waiting will only make the problem worse.

Also, it's a slap in the face to all people who immigrated here legally (like my sister-in-law) that others can sneak in and expect rights here. Hell, if I snuck into another country I would expect to be deported the second I was caught. Illegals here should expect the same.


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

CichlidAddict said:


> I agree with Diddye. The market needs to correct itself before it's too late. There is no excuse for the insourcing of hotel, restaurant, construction, or many other jobs. What the illegal immigration proponents refuse to address is my earlier point: if the economy cannot support a living wage for a legal American working to survive the cost of living, then the system is bankrupt and needs to be overhauled. Continuing on the same course of big govt. subsidies to corporations, insourcing and outsourcing, welfare/warfare economy, we will head for a depression. Again, address the point, when do we accept that we've hit critical mass when it comes to illegals? 20 million-40million-100 million? So far the protests have remained civilized. Add too many people to the mix, and they may not. Imagine the authorities attempting to contain millions of rioters and then tell me illegal aliens are critical to the economy. No one wants to think long-term. Again, if welfare recip[ients in this country are forced to either work in jobs normally going to illegals, or starve, believe me, they'll work. Our political correctness is someday going to destroy this country.


Quoted because I was thinking the exact same thing. 
If it is, in fact, true that the Cali ag market has become dependent on illegal workers, then waiting will only make the problem worse.

Also, it's a slap in the face to all people who immigrated here legally (like my sister-in-law) that others can sneak in and expect rights here. Hell, if I snuck into another country I would expect to be deported the second I was caught. Illegals here should expect the same.
[/quote]

The illegal immigrants of the ag industry in california are not people that sneak in, collect govt money and waste resources... They are people that live in shanty towns and make literally dollars a day. Anyone would do the same thing... our country is based on it... land of opportunity... they know that there is no way they are gonna get in legitamitly and thus seek other means... they are in a country that they dont want to be a part of and leave by the only means they can.

Nismo, cali ag is a lot different than small farm midwesterners... its all big company, large operation farming.

I wont argue the logistics of economics with those that only see and hear the fact that someone is stealing from you. Read up on some econ and you will see something of this magnitude will not just "correct" itself without devastating results.... ie: would you really want to ride out a major economy wide recession, because over your lifetime a couple hundred dollars were taken from you?

I have no bias either way... I am no way related to the ag industry or any of the people that everyone wants to boot from our country (would have been a different story if people had turned away your ancestors ships when they tried to sail in from a country they no longer wanted to be a part of). I am simply speaking as an economist.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

cadeuscb, first of all, the reality is that 12 mill people aren't gonna be picked up and driven south of the border. Its logistically impossible. Second, we aren't losing hundreds of dollars over our lifetime. Look at my link and it'll show you that the averge low-skilled american worker loses $1700 a year. Thats not chump change. Lastly whos to say they even have right to be here? This is not thier country. Can I drop in your house and squat there for free? I'll do your gardening, dust, and water your plants. Then you can give me free housing, food, and let me watch your tv. Deal? I think I have a right just because I barged in your door.


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

diddye said:


> cadeuscb, first of all, the reality is that 12 mill people aren't gonna be picked up and driven south of the border. Its logistically impossible. Second, we aren't losing hundreds of dollars over our lifetime. Look at my link and it'll show you that the averge low-skilled american worker loses $1700 a year. Thats not chump change. Lastly whos to say they even have right to be here? This is not thier country. Can I drop in your house and squat there for free? I'll do your gardening, dust, and water your plants. Then you can give me free housing, food, and let me watch your tv. Deal? I think I have a right just because I barged in your door.


Unless youre a Native American Indian... what right do you have to be here? This is just as much their country as it was your ancestors that immigrated here. Just because England persecuted your ancestors and they fled here...does that give you the right to be here? Same idea in that non citizens give birth to citizens and here we are today... arguing that others cant continue the exact process that brought you, your whole family and everyone you know to this country.

And hell yea you can come live at my house if you do all that... but for the sake of keeping it in line with what were talking about.... you can sleep in my garage, ill pay you subhuman wages... you will in turn pay me rent...but all the while you will still be happy your not living where you were before.


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

cadeucsb said:


> Unless youre a Native American Indian... what right do you have to be here? This is just as much their country as it was your ancestors that immigrated here. Just because England persecuted your ancestors and they fled here...does that give you the right to be here? Same idea in that non citizens give birth to citizens and here we are today... arguing that others cant continue the exact process that brought you, your whole family and everyone you know to this country.
> 
> .


First. Not everyone living in this country is a direct ancestor to the english, or any other group of the first individuals that immigratted here. Some are from asian ancestory immigrants, some from eastern europe, some from south america, etc. I don't think anyone is saying "no immigrants" I think more are saying "Our economy is sucking because of undocumented illegal immigrants". My grandparents were immigrants, my father is an immigrant. But NOT ILLEGAL immigrants, they went through the neccasary paperwork and waiting to beable to live here as equally as everyone else so they could be documented immigrants. No one made public signs in their native language either, it was learn to communicate in english or don't be a part of society and not make it in the US.

Just because Mexico and US are on the same continent does that mean they should just be able to come over the border and not wait and go through the neccasary paperwork like everyone other immigrant that wants to come to the US? Even when these illegals get here, majority aren't concerned with finding a way to become legal, at the most finding a way to make forged drivers liscenses and ss cards.

Yes there are even people who are descendents of mexican legal immigrants who don't want illegals here. IE the guy in boston who was protesting across the street from a rally and got mobbed by some illegals. Turns out his dad was a mexican immigrant.


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

if the determination of people south of the U.S. border is so good 
how come they dont ban together and have a revolution
im mean sh*t the US had a civil war 
why dont they 
im sure bush would givem guns and stuff 
prolly even help them if it got big enuff
why come here if thats were you love 
and i say south of the US border cuz god forbid i say Me...an


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## cadeucsb (Nov 4, 2004)

oscar119 said:


> Unless youre a Native American Indian... what right do you have to be here? This is just as much their country as it was your ancestors that immigrated here. Just because England persecuted your ancestors and they fled here...does that give you the right to be here? Same idea in that non citizens give birth to citizens and here we are today... arguing that others cant continue the exact process that brought you, your whole family and everyone you know to this country.
> 
> .


First. Not everyone living in this country is a direct ancestor to the english, or any other group of the first individuals that immigratted here. Some are from asian ancestory immigrants, some from eastern europe, some from south america, etc. I don't think anyone is saying "no immigrants" I think more are saying "Our economy is sucking because of undocumented illegal immigrants". My grandparents were immigrants, my father is an immigrant. But NOT ILLEGAL immigrants, they went through the neccasary paperwork and waiting to beable to live here as equally as everyone else so they could be documented immigrants. No one made public signs in their native language either, it was learn to communicate in english or don't be a part of society and not make it in the US.

Just because Mexico and US are on the same continent does that mean they should just be able to come over the border and not wait and go through the neccasary paperwork like everyone other immigrant that wants to come to the US? Even when these illegals get here, majority aren't concerned with finding a way to become legal, at the most finding a way to make forged drivers liscenses and ss cards.

Yes there are even people who are descendents of mexican legal immigrants who don't want illegals here. IE the guy in boston who was protesting across the street from a rally and got mobbed by some illegals. Turns out his dad was a mexican immigrant.
[/quote]

Doesnt really matter what nationality your ancestors were... England is just an example... its an example of a time where there wasnt an "illegal"... so you cant compare... your ancestors just showed up and they were let in.... just because its "illegal" to just show up now (since you wont just be assimilated like our ancestors were) doesnt mean the situation is different....And to say everyone had to convert to the american way when they got here is laughable... Chinatowns, Polish areas etc... where minimal english is spoken have been around since america started.

Im not saying there isnt a better process out there to be implemented...im saying to all those whining about losing $$ and jobs and want to just kick all the illegals out dont really know what they are talking about and how it would impact the economy (which is why no one is doing anything about it as of now).... reform is required...we know that.. but that answer isnt just booting people.


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

you know what i got a better idea instead of nuking the immigrants lets kill all the people who are unemployed thus keeping everything low price . our unemployment goes to zero our productivity sky rockets cuz if you get fired you die cuz ud be unemployed.. i htink this solution wins i mean everyone wins except those that die and ya'll know we wont hear them..

this is my point genocide solves all problems


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

slckr69 said:


> you know what i got a better idea instead of nuking the immigrants lets kill all the people who are unemployed thus keeping everything low price . our unemployment goes to zero our productivity sky rockets cuz if you get fired you die cuz ud be unemployed.. i htink this solution wins i mean everyone wins except those that die and ya'll know we wont hear them..
> 
> this is my point genocide solves all problems


You'd have to nuke all shop lifters and anyone still making stuff in the us. Because the truly low priced items are made overseas.

Other than that great.. Although I'd still rather nuke mexico...


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## slckr69 (Feb 21, 2004)

oscar119 said:


> you know what i got a better idea instead of nuking the immigrants lets kill all the people who are unemployed thus keeping everything low price . our unemployment goes to zero our productivity sky rockets cuz if you get fired you die cuz ud be unemployed.. i htink this solution wins i mean everyone wins except those that die and ya'll know we wont hear them..
> 
> this is my point genocide solves all problems


You'd have to nuke all shop lifters and anyone still making stuff in the us. Because the truly low priced items are made overseas.

Other than that great.. Although I'd still rather nuke mexico...








[/quote]

hey we got them stock piled mine as well clear out to our northern border as well then spread throughout our continent


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

cadeucsb said:


> sorry bud...maybe that logic works when talking about illegals making near minimum wage... but it doesnt apply to california... Californias economy barely squeaks by year over year... And if you go in there and replace people that are making cents on the dollar with minimum wage earners (who will then just complain they dont get paid enough)... the economy will faulter...


That's assuming Trickledown Economics works. Companies employing illegals have lower running costs, but those profits don't trickle down to the employees or patrons of those companies.

I'd rather see the formerly insane profit margins spread among Americans by making a fair wage, than consolidated to the few ultra rich.

Oh, I almost forgot. Go Union!


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

lol go union. im just a spectator in this thread, im not touching this with a 10 foot pole. i skimmed through and all i got was something about damn illegals and nukes...cant be good


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Alot of the views in defense of American jobs stated in this thread is basic union principals. Even though some poeple here in the past have said they don't like unions, they are saying alot of the same things the old timers in my union hall say.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

i dislike unions. at the core they are good for people, but over time theyve become a weight on the shoulders of larger companies. its why my company is stuggling to turn a profit. union workers...ha! 
damnit i said i wasnt getting involved here! bye


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

nattereri2000 said:


> i dislike unions. at the core they are good for people, but over time theyve become a weight on the shoulders of larger companies. its why my company is stuggling to turn a profit. union workers...ha!
> damnit i said i wasnt getting involved here! bye


Not all unions are like that. Look at Australia were it's almost impossible to find an industry without a union. Their economy is incredibly strong, and thier workforce is well paid and has benifits. Personally I think if people make more money, they spend more money. The same isn't true for companies.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)

scrappydoo said:


> i dislike unions. at the core they are good for people, but over time theyve become a weight on the shoulders of larger companies. its why my company is stuggling to turn a profit. union workers...ha!
> damnit i said i wasnt getting involved here! bye


Not all unions are like that. Look at Australia were it's almost impossible to find an industry without a union. Their economy is incredibly strong, and thier workforce is well paid and has benifits. Personally I think if people make more money, they spend more money. The same isn't true for companies.
[/quote]

good points.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

The problem is that unions get a bad rep because they force employers to pay fair wages and provide benifits. But now that company has to compete against other companies that don't provide that for thier employees. Unions are disapearing fast because of this, and I think we'll see a nation of underpaid workers with no benifits. It'll have to go that far before people swing the other way and become pro union in general like they did pre 80's.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

Back to booting out the illegals.


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## BUBBA (Sep 4, 2003)

I agree Like everything else the Cost of Produce and Sevices will go up .



r1dermon said:


> I agree Nismo, Canada needs to stop letting Americans come into Canada illegally, our weed and health care costs are through the roof
> 
> 
> 
> ...


kna We Have Humble County


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

well deportation wont happen all at once. Are 12 million people gonna disappear overnight? Hell no. But lets assume that they are deported as fast as they came here. Over 500,000 cross annually...thats almost 14,000 a day. If we deport 14,000/day we break even. But if we monitor our borders and deport even 5,000 a day, thats a change thats small enough not to demolish our economy(i know not very scientific). One reason the agricultural companies are so reliant on illegals is that they're cheap. This led to a stunt in technological advances that could have replaced the manual labor(there was a study done about this). Machines are slowly replacing manual labor, but it could be faster if they weren't here. Also, gene technology helped machines become more efficient(i.e oblong tomatoes) My point is....once illegals are disappearing, the market will change to fit it and use machines more and more. Farmers are resistant to change if they are comfortable.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Anyone making the argument that the agriculture economy would fall apart still refuses to address the core issue: If food manufacure and distribution is dependent, in order to be affordable, on a quasi-slave labor band of illegals crossing the border by the thousands, then the entire system is bankrupt and requires an overhaul. This is like saying that cotton manufacture in the nineteenth century would suffer terminally from the elimination of slavery. The problem is like a cancer that spreads until it is attacked at its' roots. If we wait to long, then like a cancer unchecked illegal immigration will create a bloated third world population in America and eventually chaos and destruction. Also, anyone claiming that illegals stabalize the economy also refuses to address the issue of critical mass. Maybe at 10 million they provide certain benefits, but at 50 million or more our economy will become wrecked. Whoever argued on this thread for bringing the National Guard back from Iraq to protect the border was thinking too smart for our sold-out politicians.


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## jagoot (Apr 13, 2006)

the illegal aliens should leave the US man they aint doin nuthin but makin babies they should come here legally and it will be all cool... i mean im not against them staying but the rest of them that might thinking to come illegally should stop and come over legally yo...


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

a recent study by the PEW found that of the 12 million illegals, about 7 million work. Contrary to popular belief(i thought so too), the highest proportion of these workers was in construction, not farming. 1.4 million are in contruction. 1.2 million are in the service industry(ie hotels), and so on and so on...the last was agriculture. So its not true what was posted earlier.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

There are probably much more than 12 million illegals. As far as the touchy subject of deportation goes, we could at least deport the criminal population. This would reduce both crime and the prison population. Currently the situation is out of control.

http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=4545


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

thanks for the article fargo...i never even thought about how mexico supports it b/c it alleviates their criminal problems as well as other social problems other then an easy way to import money.


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