# New Snake



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

Ok so I'm in the market for a new snake. I currently have 2 (kingsnake, milk/king mix) at the moment and just aquired a 30 gal critter cage w/ almost everything that I need (under tank heater, hides, waterdish). 
So here is what I'm looking for.

Nothing that gets huge (6ft or less)
I don't really care for think bodied snakes (nothing that could hug you to death)
I would like to use sand in the tank
I've had experiance w/ venomous snakes in the past (copperheads, rattlesnakes) so they arn't out of the picture
i know all snakes hide but i want something that hides less than my current snakes
I don't care if its a mean snake that cannot be held since i have 2 that can
it must look good as i would like it to be a showcase type pet


----------



## mikfleye (Jul 27, 2006)

i bought a white sided rat snake, i love him, in thier adult form they look so nice

he doesnt hide much at all, he seems to be very aboreal, always climbing on all the leaves and brahcnes, and just hanging out in the trees, hes not the best with handling though, he does bite quite often

this is the adult form










here is mine, a juvi


----------



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

would they do good on sand?

and for that matter does anyone know why kingsnakes don't do well on sand?

i really want this but i don't have that much money lol

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=444293


----------



## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

One of the egg eating snakes would be pretty cool. Heres a link to a profile 
click me


----------



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

that would be cool but finding small eggs might be really hard


----------



## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Get a Kenyan sand boa, or better yet a Rosy Boa..the rosy won't hide like the sand boa......

Forget the Indigo..they are LARGE snakes that require SUBSTANTIAL housing.....a 30 gallon is no where near adequate..even for a juvenile....and then there is the fact they have one of the fastest metabolisms in the snake world...it seems as if you feed them one rodent and they crap 5....

I will also take a moment to discuss ownership of venomous.......

They are a serious undertaking, requiring research in your local, county and state laws...anti-venine, which aside from requiring an aphis permit just to aquire it, costs a substantial amount of money.and it has a shelf-life....then there is the fact that most homeowners insurance policies are null and void when such an animal is housed inside the home...etc....
These are thoughts most people do not consider..or realize...they just see pretty snakes that can hurt them...and unfortunately many species are cheap...anyway...they require thought that's all...

as for the Dasypeltis...cool snakes but you will have to keep and breed zebra/society finches, quail, doves, etc..to obtain the eggs you will need as a diet....other than that fact they are really fascinating animals. and D. scabra is commonly available...


----------



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

good info croc! and if i had $1000 to drop on an indigo i would be able to get a bigger tank than a 30g lol!

i think i'm leaning towards a rat snake but then agian i really want sand.

what about a hognose? do those do good on sand?

local laws are poorly writen here and they say no 'Poisonous' snakes. but but there are no poisonous snakes only venomous ones (poison you have to ingest) so therefore the venomous snakes are ok since there is a loophole


----------



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Why the obsession with the sand?

Also... I seriously doubt that poison/venom arugment would hold up if you had a hot, it got out and managed to kill a neighbourhood kid or something to that effect.


----------



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

poison/venomn has worked in this town before.

and why sand? it looks much better than aspen/liner/newspaper/reptibark

I found Mangrove snakes but they just get way to big


----------



## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

"local laws are poorly writen here and they say no 'Poisonous' snakes. but but there are no poisonous snakes only venomous ones (poison you have to ingest) so therefore the venomous snakes are ok since there is a loophole"

In a legal argument you will lose. The lay persons use of the terms poison and venom are obviously different, but in a medical/legal context the words are really interchangeable...example:

The word venom is usually applied to the toxic substance produced by a plant oranimal in a highly developed secretory organ orgroup of cells, and which is delivered through the act of biting or stining....animals that can deliver such bites or stings are more properly called phanerotoxic animals.....a poison is a substance that in relatively small amounts, produce death or impair seriously the functions of organs or tissues. Poisonous animals are generally regarded to be those creatures whose tissues, either in part or in their entirety, are toxic. Poisoning of these forms usually takes place through ingestion of theirflesh. Cryptotoxic animals are ones like the toads, puffer fishes, newts..... in reality, all venomous animals are poisonous...but not all poisonous animals are venomous.

Ifyou can find a copy Findlay E. Russell wrote an excellent book titled Snake Venom Poisoning...whatmade this greatwas his medical background, not just his herpetological interests...any way..be careful..as a competant ada will trounce possession in an area with an ordinance prohibiting "poisonous" animals.....


----------



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

i guess my question on that would be (and i'm not arguing because you know much more than me on the subject) is why do pet stores here sell hognose snakes, FWC's and mangrove snakes which are all rearfang venomous?


----------



## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

It is hard to say.

I am not familiar with your4 laws locally, or at the county level as I don't know where in Kansas you live. Perhaps the wording of the ordinances lists specifically the families of the species which are prohibited or even is species specific.

This is some info for the Kansas Herpetological Society:

Natural History Museum - Dyche Hall
University of Kansas
Lawrence, Kansas 66045
United States

http://www.ku.edu/~khs/
[email protected]
John Lokke, President - E-Mail: Eric Rundquist

If you do not get a response or the information you are looking for get back with me....


----------



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

It should also be noted that a hognose is a bit different than your average venomous snake and there's a lot of debate surrounding its exact classification if I'm not mistaken. They are more of a danger to individuals who are allergic to bee stings. The average person will not be affected by their bite. The reason for this is because they do not have hollow fangs that they inject venom through but it's their saliva glands that transmits it, like the gila monster I believe... They are rear fanged, but that's because in the wild one of their main prey items are toads/frogs who tend to puff up when threatened. The rear fangs allow the snake to 'pop' their prey and swallow them.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this...

Right now there's some debate going on in my city I believe over whether hognoses should be banned as there is a by-law prohibiting certain classifications of snakes, rear-fanged, etc. and it is unclear as to whether they need ALL criteria listed or only one aspect in order to be considered illegal for posession... In the mean time stores still sell them.

And on the note of stores selling animals they probably shouldn't... It also comes down to how strictly enforced these laws are in your area.


----------



## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

There is currently a lot of debate in the "venomous" animal arena...Fry published work stating Bearded Dragons are venomous, etc....

The debate will rage on...I do not feel that it should ever be nessecary to "ban" ownership..just have strict permitting regulations and systems..

Anyway..the hognoses are in the group of snakes opisthoglyphous...


----------



## Kudos (Dec 22, 2005)

Kenyan sand boa it is! we just got some in at work and they are really tame and will come right up to you when you look into the cage.


----------

