# Flourish Nitrogen



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

I have been going over what ferts I will need, and I remember that I am going to need more nitrates, for my plants.

Seeing as how I have the money, and sorry but IMO I would rather just stick with the flourish lines, is Flourish Nitrogen nitrates? Also, could you recomend for my setup what kind of ferts to use?

2wpg
DIY C02
40lbs of Eco-Complete
I'm curently just using Flourish Comp, and Flourish Excel. My planting is quite simple being of just two plants, Amazon Swords and Saggitaria, but it is quite heavily planted though (looking at trading up Saggitaria for Pygmy Chain Swords)

Thanks much.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

well since you want to use flourish:

comprehensive
iron

phosphates
nitrogen
potassium

trace

Honestly tho, it has nothing to do with "having the money". I have the money to use fllurish too, but spending $0.10 on a bottle of nitrogen that might last me 1.5-2 weeks vs spening $4-5 on the same bottle but its 'flourish nitrogen'... Ill choose the 10cents bottle every time.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Before adding any nitrates, you do have to measure the nitrate concentration of your tank water.
If you have a lot of fast growing plants, you may need N fertilization. On the other hand if you have Pygocentrus Piranhas, it is likely you do not need. Measure the levels first to check if they are already within good 15-30 ppm area.

Harry


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

harrykaa said:


> Before adding any nitrates, you do have to measure the nitrate concentration of your tank water.
> If you have a lot of fast growing plants, you may need N fertilization. On the other hand if you have Pygocentrus Piranhas, it is likely you do not need. Measure the levels first to check if they are already within good 15-30 ppm area.
> 
> Harry


My tanks has not nearly 15-30ppm, and personally, I'm not sure I would ever want it that high. Its about 5ppm right now, and considering the amount of money I have in wild caught/sensitive fish, I do no not want it much over 15. I do 50% twice bi-weekly water changes.

So what I'm getting from you guys, Flourish Nitrogen is nitrates?

Exodus, where are you getting 10 cent bottles of nitrogen?


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## awfraser (May 13, 2006)

Tibs said:


> Before adding any nitrates, you do have to measure the nitrate concentration of your tank water.
> If you have a lot of fast growing plants, you may need N fertilization. On the other hand if you have Pygocentrus Piranhas, it is likely you do not need. Measure the levels first to check if they are already within good 15-30 ppm area.
> 
> Harry


My tanks has not nearly 15-30ppm, and personally, I'm not sure I would ever want it that high. Its about 5ppm right now, and considering the amount of money I have in wild caught/sensitive fish, I do no not want it much over 15. I do 50% twice bi-weekly water changes.

So what I'm getting from you guys, Flourish Nitrogen is nitrates?

Exodus, where are you getting 10 cent bottles of nitrogen?
[/quote]
??


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Greg Watson. The Potassium Nitrate is like 2.36 for a lb. I mix 1 level tablespoon of the fert to 250ml of distilled water. It was a rough calculation, it actually might even figure to be a few cents cheaper. I have all very sensitive wildcaught fish as well. There is nothing wrong w/ 20ppm nitrates in the tank because the plants are constantly consuming it.


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

[/quote]
Exodus, where are you getting 10 cent bottles of nitrogen?
[/quote]

That is what I want to know. What do you dose exodus? What line do you use? Greg Watson?

Hater


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Thats what he's saying the GW ferts work out to. at 2.50 a LB that works out to roughly .10 a 250ml bottle. You know save by buying in bulk. But even the bulk is still half what just 250ml of Seachem product costs. it just takes a VERY small amount of effort to mix the bottle.

I'll be placing my order soon. I've been making due with the Sechem stuff that I picked up. but once I need to buy more ferts GW is the way to go. a full regimine will cost you about 30 bucks after shipping but would last SOOOO much longer then if you spent that 30 on Seachem products.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Well, I have been doing some research on nutrients, and I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with flourish now or not. If I do, I'm going to get Comp, Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potassium, but thats still like $25 and using my pwning DIY skills I think I could do something similar with GW for cheaper.

I'm not figuring anyone will really help me here, but can you give me an overview of what I might need to match what I want to do with flourish (Comp, Nitro, Phos, Potassium) in GW ferts?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Hater,
I dose both Seachem and Greg Watson. I use Seachem comprehensive and iron and trace. As soon as the 2L bottles of seachem is up i am going to be switching totally to greg watson ferts tho. a 250ml bottle of seachem will run me @ $4... I can have basically the same stuff from greg watson for seriously under 10cents for a 250ml bottle. I am still gonna have to figure out how to replace flourish trace using greg watson, ill prob end up having to go another route for it.



Tibs said:


> Well, I have been doing some research on nutrients, and I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with flourish now or not. If I do, I'm going to get Comp, Nitrogen, Phosphate, and Potassium, but thats still like $25 and using my pwning DIY skills I think I could do something similar with GW for cheaper.
> 
> I'm not figuring anyone will really help me here, but can you give me an overview of what I might need to match what I want to do with flourish (Comp, Nitro, Phos, Potassium) in GW ferts?


comp = CSM+B Plantex

Nitrogen = Potassium Nitrate

Phosphate = Mono Potassium Phosphate

Potassium = Potassium Sulfate


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Props to you Exo









I think I am going to get the PMDD Pre Mix (considering I don't really want a buntch of 1lb buckets all over my room :laugh: ), but I was wondering, what exactly will Magnesium Sulfate do for me?

If I get PMDD, do you think getting Mono Potassium Phosphate will still benefit? Its kinda expensive, and if it isn't nessary I'm going to pass on it

I am totally seeing what you guys mean now. I added it up and I got 10 cent again, and well, it looks like I can do this better with GW.

Also, what are all the rest of the things for (I.E calcium compounds)? Why would you need any of those?

I'm going to pass on iron, I dosed with Flourish Iron and saw no improvments whatsoever.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Tibs said:


> Props to you Exo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to point out something to ya. The PMDD mix is like 9$ for a 1lb mix. You can get an entire pound of everything listed for like 15 bucks and it will last you 10x longer. They are shipped in double strength ziploc bags. I have a small box that I put all the ferts in so they arnt in the way. 
NPK is VITAL to proper plant growth, so yes.. phosphate is necessary. 
The Mg is a trace element that plants benefit from. 
The calcium I believe is more meant for people who use r/o water and need to rebuild the water. Basically it can also be mixed with the Mg and a few other chemicals to replace Flourish Trace. 
I wouldnt pass on iron... Again one of the vital ferts that plants benefit greatly from.
I remember reading you have like 2wpg and some diy co2? Oh man.... if your gonna try it... do it right and use the whole spectrul of ferts so your plants are in the best shape they can be in. 
I really never got excited about plants until I was actually able to SEE the growth... its fuckign awesome


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Hmmm yeah I see what you mean, I could get tons more for not tons more

So I'm looking at

Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Sulfate
Magnesium Sulfate
and CSM+B Plantex?

$17.20

I'm guessing the CSM Plantex is going to be a nessary thing, right? Because thats like over half the price cost right there. Also, even though I know I'm asking this alot, with CSM am I going to need magnesium sulfate?

I'm still against what a few have said going to pass on iron, I think I'm getting that from my substrate, my plants show no iron defiencies and do not seem to be benifeiting much from the Iron now, plus the iron is kinda spendy thru GW.

Right now, with my 'poor' regimen, I'm getting great growth with my plants, so I'm really not looking to go totally all out.

How much is shipping thru GW?


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

The CSM Plantex is a mix of Micro ferts. 
It basically replaces Flourish comp. all the other stuff you have listed is Macro ferts. You still need a set of micro ferts. Either thru the plantex or flourish comp.

I also highly reccomend getting the chleated Iron thru GW. Again you will be getting alot more for alot cheaper then if you get flourish iron. its roughtly the same concentration as everything else. you get 250 ml out of about a tablespoon. Since your placing an order you are better off getting as much in one order and save on shipping. You will not regret it.
If any of your plants have the pootential of reddening that iron will help alot towards that. Its not an overnight thing tho.

Shipping is about 10-16 I think. once you get thru adding the stuff to your cart thru the page you can calc the shipping.


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

Hey Black Sunchine and exodus. Once you get the stuff from GW, do you have to mix it with something or just start dosing in its raw form? Where do I get instruction on how to mix this stuff and what to use?

Hater


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Hater said:


> Hey Black Sunchine and exodus. Once you get the stuff from GW, do you have to mix it with something or just start dosing in its raw form? Where do I get instruction on how to mix this stuff and what to use?
> 
> Hater


some people dose dry, I dont. I mix one level tablespoon on the fert to a flourish 250ml bottle and use it from there. I use 25ml of comp,iron and nitrogen every other day so i go through bottles like water.


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

Ex0dus said:


> Hey Black Sunchine and exodus. Once you get the stuff from GW, do you have to mix it with something or just start dosing in its raw form? Where do I get instruction on how to mix this stuff and what to use?
> 
> Hater


some people dose dry, I dont. I mix one level tablespoon on the fert to a flourish 250ml bottle and use it from there. I use 25ml of comp,iron and nitrogen every other day so i go through bottles like water.
[/quote]

You mean you mix the gw product with flourish or you you use the flourish 250ml bottle and mix the gw with water into it?

Hater


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

I use the empty flourish bottles and mix the GW ferts w/ distilled water.


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## Hater (Apr 21, 2006)

Ex0dus said:


> I use the empty flourish bottles and mix the GW ferts w/ distilled water.


Got you exodus but the question is, how do you know how much water you need to mix into the mixture? Is there a formula we are suppose to follow?

Hater


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Hater said:


> I use the empty flourish bottles and mix the GW ferts w/ distilled water.


Got you exodus but the question is, how do you know how much water you need to mix into the mixture? Is there a formula we are suppose to follow?

Hater
[/quote]

I fill up the bottle about 95% full... just below the neck and add in 1 level tablespoon of the dry fert


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Eyeball it. Just leave a little air at the top of the bottle so you can shake it up good.


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Thanks all!

Does shipping matter by how much you order? I'm still not sold on the iron, maybe if it was $2, but for $9 I think I will just utilize whatever little iron is in my eco-complete. Especially since its a half pound quanity. I think I'm over my head with the other stuff already :laugh:

Sunshine, magnesium sulfate isnt a macro, is it? I thought it was a micro.

So other then the Iron, you think that my order will be fine?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

skip the mg and get iron


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

The mg is $.85 a pound, and the Iron is $9 for half a pound, its not an even trade up.

But are you saying that the mg isnt needed? Because if shipping is something like per 1lb, I think I may skip that too.

I really do not think I am going to get the iron. I know that it helps, but I have never seen an iron defienentcy and I have seen no benefit from the iron I'm using now. If the iron was cheaper, I would get it, but for $9 per half pound, I'm going to pass.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> Just to point out something to ya. The PMDD mix is like 9$ for a 1lb mix. You can get an entire pound of everything listed for like 15 bucks and it will last you 10x longer. They are shipped in double strength ziploc bags. I have a small box that I put all the ferts in so they arnt in the way.
> NPK is VITAL to proper plant growth, so yes.. phosphate is necessary.
> The Mg is a trace element that plants benefit from.
> The calcium I believe is more meant for people who use r/o water and need to rebuild the water. Basically it can also be mixed with the Mg and a few other chemicals to replace Flourish Trace.
> ...


Pff, I was out all day scaping a doctor friends tank, about an hours drive away from here.. 
And come back to this.. You guys rock, giving great answers guys.. I am so happy to hear that some of you are running your planted tanks with solid knowledge and understanding of what you are doing.. Great job guys!!



> I'm still against what a few have said going to pass on iron


I honestly would skip the magnesium sulfate if you are using tap water, and go with the iron



BlackSunshine420 said:


> Thanks all!
> 
> Does shipping matter by how much you order? I'm still not sold on the iron, maybe if it was $2, but for $9 I think I will just utilize whatever little iron is in my eco-complete. Especially since its a half pound quanity. I think I'm over my head with the other stuff already :laugh:
> 
> ...


I hear ya bro!!
But think of it, you won't need ferts for over a year, maybe iron.. That is a great deal! I'm telling you, I would have hanged up this hobby if it wasn't for the dirt cheap GW ferts.. the initial cost is kind of rough, but you are saving like 50 to 75% on this stuff


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> > I'm still against what a few have said going to pass on iron
> 
> 
> I honestly would skip the magnesium sulfate if you are using tap water, and go with the iron


So are you saying that magnesium sulfate has some sort of redundancy with tap water? I keep hearing Iron, Iron, Iron, what really makes a difference with iron? I know it contributes to reddening, but what else does it do then?

Yes, thank you all, your helping me here as I have come to expect dippy to do!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Ya, Tibs, there are members here that have been doing their homework!! 
I am pretty excited about that! The P hobby seems like it will be going foreward along with the 'little nice fish' planted tanks are..

Sweet







Lots of people turned the other cheek at me when I mentioned it, even in my plant club, but I have found, that good water column control, and spot dosing F excell along with 30-40ppm CO2 can cut the need for algea eating critters in the tank up to about 50% or more.
I do have a colony of cherry red shrimp in my tank, but usually planted tank ppl have them, amano shrimp, ottos, SAE, Nerite snails, you name it, they got it for algea eating..

Tibs, there is something about iron.. mind you, I have CO2, and 3wpg of PC lighting with nice reflectors, so I dose a lot more than someone who doesn't have all of that..
But I dose the same amount of iron as my CSM+B in my low light tank 1ce a week, along with nitrate, phosphates, and potassium (20ppm, 2-3ppm, 20ppm perspectively) with excellent results..
I even started growing tons of duckweed on top to slow the growth.. things are looking good in there

The magnesium is ok to use, but if your water has like 3-5dKH, and 8-12 GH, you can almost guarantee you have enough calcium and magnesium (and if you really need them, add some Epsom salts)


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Yes, my water is quite soft, fits in those guidelines, so I would think that it would be unnessary then.

Well I got some thinking to do then, doesn't eco complete have iron in it? I thought that was part of the reason to get planted tank substrates. Even though I'm hearing it alot, I still am not sure what it contributes to. I have noticed that Flourish Iron is part of there 'Fundementals' Kit, so maybe I'm giving it less credit then it deserves.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Tibs said:


> Yes, my water is quite soft, fits in those guidelines, so I would think that it would be unnessary then.
> 
> Well I got some thinking to do then, doesn't eco complete have iron in it? I thought that was part of the reason to get planted tank substrates. Even though I'm hearing it alot, I still am not sure what it contributes to. I have noticed that Flourish Iron is part of there 'Fundementals' Kit, so maybe I'm giving it less credit then it deserves.


Ya, if you really need to try a micro because of some deficiency, go get some Epsom salts, and try that.. cheap stuff, and you don't need a lot at all
The iron in planted tanks substrates is for root strength overall, taken over time, in small amounts. It is a boost, not a suppliment. I think it is beneficial

But I know people who dump the iron in more than I do in smaller tanks..







with seriously healthy plants/no algea either. They have a bit more light than me, but mine ain't in the shade either.. All I can say is.. if it works for them, I'll try it.. I did, and it has helped my tank


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Yeah despite what I'm hereing, I'm going to pass on Iron, I see too that CSMB is something like 7% Iron, and between my substrate I hope that to be adequet.

What micros does epsom salts contain? I'm going to order this week and so far it looks like CSMB, and NPK. Sounds good to me. Now I'm going to have to figure out some sort of dosing scheduel

Also, now that I have C02, I think I am going to stop using excel. One thing that I have always been proud of is that I have experience no algae problems whatsoever, and reading what you said, and remembering stuff I have read, do you think that the excel could have killed the algae, and now that I'm stopping it will start?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> Yeah despite what I'm hereing, I'm going to pass on Iron, I see too that CSMB is something like 7% Iron, and between my substrate I hope that to be adequet.


Your choice, but I dose waaayy more than that of iron


> What micros does epsom salts contain? I'm going to order this week and so far it looks like CSMB, and NPK. Sounds good to me. Now I'm going to have to figure out some sort of dosing scheduel


Epsom salts is nothing but magnesium sulfate. you are fine with those ferts, but if your plants start to get pale a bit, you won't have the extra iron to dump in







but you should be fine other than that


> Also, now that I have C02, I think I am going to stop using excel. One thing that I have always been proud of is that I have experience no algae problems whatsoever, and reading what you said, and remembering stuff I have read, do you think that the excel could have killed the algae, and now that I'm stopping it will start?


if your water circulation is good, and your CO2 is getting to your plants well, you will be fine.
The only reason I still use it is because I have lots of light, and a piranha in the tank who does not like many tank mates cleaning up algea..


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## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Thanks mate!

I'll be ordering this week, wish me luck!


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