# My King!



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY KING!


----------



## Guest (Feb 18, 2006)

Sorry, Im only allowed 2 mins of propaganda video a day







:laugh:


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

that is who He is, danny







propoganda..? lol


----------



## Guest (Feb 18, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> that is who He is, danny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well wasnt the first time you posted it enough?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> that is who He is, danny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well wasnt the first time you posted it enough?








[/quote]
nope this is too awesome, i had to share, even though most won't get it.. then just don't watch.. you are free to come and go as you please!


----------



## Guest (Feb 18, 2006)

:laugh:

I just dont understand, whats with the sudden tsunami of religious posts?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> :laugh:
> 
> I just dont understand, whats with the sudden tsunami of religious posts?


do you really have to understand? and if it makes you laugh so much, at least you are smiling!


----------



## SirOneEighty (Nov 20, 2004)

You know, Dippy, I am a Christian, and I can appreciate what you are trying to do here.

But I have to wonder:

Do you realize that perhaps incessant new threads, propaganda-esque video clips, slightly closed-minded posts in other's threads, and an overall aloofness to your faith may actually be pushing others away? The goal is not to make others uncomfortable. In fact, I have always found it easiest to make people as comfortable as possible.

I don't typically post much these days, and I really avoid threads like this that have a high propensity to start arguments that ultimately make Christians look like extremists or closed-minded Jesus-blinded fools.

I just want to you think about perhaps finding a more subtle way to work your message into your posts and threads. I know that you always add the footnote to "not read if you dont want to" or "if you don't like it, don't watch it", but I really don't think you are acheiving any of your goals this way.


----------



## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

lol i agree with dannyand sironeeighty again .


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

SirOneEighty said:


> You know, Dippy, I am a Christian, and I can appreciate what you are trying to do here.
> 
> But I have to wonder:
> 
> ...


sorry you are offended, please point out my closed mindedness i will listen

Did Christ make all people feel comfortabe, though? Or did they kill Him because they loved Him, and made them feel so comfortabe??
Or was the command to go and share the Gospel with all people, conditional, or only to those who will not be offended??

I understand what you are saying, but I am just another part of the body. Do you accept me as such?

Also remember that ALL the apostles of Christ were killed for sharing what they believe..

Were they wrong? Were they winning souls fearlessly in obediance to the Lord, or were they outside of the will of God?

Please share

maybe I should be banned? lol


----------



## SirOneEighty (Nov 20, 2004)

I, personally, was not offended. I am familiar with the minister that gave that oration. I have heard that particular talk given several times and I think it is an amazing example of God's ability to speak through men.

I simply meant that your single-sided approach to inserting Christian beliefs into your posts and threads lacked tact. I do not know you except through what you post on this Fish-oriented website.

I do know that your persona online makes you come off as Benicio Del Toro's character in 21 Grams. Overbearing and unbending, you approach all problems with the same level of idealism. In a perfect world, you would be helping all the people reading your posts. You would be enriching their everyday lives and tugging them away from the eternal fires of Hell.

Instead, I just want you to know that you may not be having this effect. I hate to say that by being unbending and so idealistic that you may even be pushing people away. I am not an ordained minister. Perhaps you could PM PastorJeff for a little more like-minded insight.

I am not telling you to stop what you're doing. I'm glad to see that someone as strong in their faith as you would be so happy and willing to share it with others. I just think perhaps a more subtle and tactful approach could benefit God's lost sheep as much as repremanding them or posting videos that do not support your position, so much as rub it in other's faces.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

SirOneEighty said:


> I, personally, was not offended. I am familiar with the minister that gave that oration. I have heard that particular talk given several times and I think it is an amazing example of God's ability to speak through men.
> 
> I simply meant that your single-sided approach to inserting Christian beliefs into your posts and threads lacked tact. I do not know you except through what you post on this Fish-oriented website.
> 
> ...


Please, give me the quotes that I have made, and then tell me how my posts were turning people away, I am curious-- (if you have the time)

No one ever said that all would come to the Lord. In fact, just the opposite is taught. Maybe tell me what I have said, and offer to teach me a way that would have been better? -At least I'm trying

How can you tell me that my point is to smash Christ down peoples throat? Am I sharing, or smashing? Am I praising my Lord, or degrading Him? Honoring, or dishonoring? Did you hear from the Lord on this? Do you have a word for me?

OK, I will PM Pastor Jeff, (not what I really want to do) and get his insight, if he wants to share. He does not have to if he doesn't want to, he is free to do as he thinks is right.

I talked to him before about things like this, and he did not reprimand me at all. In fact, all I got was encouragement. _Unless he was lying in my face about how he really felt_. That wouldn't be very shephard-like, would it?


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow...I was at an overnight last night with about 40 Jr. and Sr. High students, came home and took a nap, woke up and had a good amount of e-mails and pm's asking my input about this thread. Thanks for asking guys (and gals if any of you are female!







) I was asked to be honest, blunt and direct by almost each one so I will do so...only because I was asked to do so.

I think this kind of thread is really a waste of Xenon's internet space and nothing more.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe all the things that they said on that short video clip, but one needs to remember that the video was made for a sermon illustration, not as an "outreach" method. Why? It is full of religious jargon that does nothing but pigeon-hole people like myself (and others) who do not act out our faith in that manner.

Is there anything wrong with that video? No. Theologically it is sound in everything that it says, but the method that it was used was not well suited.

Let me give another illustration. I work with Jr. and Sr. High students aged 12 thorugh 18 years old. Lets pretend that I have the oppourtunity to plan an event for my students and being a pastor I get the chance to tell them all about Jesus. What kind of event am I going to plan?

How about I take all the teens to the local nursing home to give sponge baths to the residents all over 85 years old. I can bet my holey underwear that I would get NOBODY to show up for that event (except for those that are really twisted in their mind).

See, my intentions were good, the manner in which I went about achieving my goal was off, and in the end was not effective. And in the end, the parents of the teens feel that I am some kind of sicko pervert for planning such an event. Not only was I NOT effective in my planning, the side affect is that people percieve me as a sicko pervert...does that make sense?

I know Dippy and we have talked numerous times via e-mail and he has a good heart and nothing but 100% good intentions. But he and I go about things differently. Not bad, just different. I do not know OneEighty...but he and I seem to be exactly in line with each other in how we go about illustrating Christ to others.

Dippy - what if instead of hearing those words in a boring video (I think it is anyways...) they saw those words ILLUSTRATED in your actions on this site...cause right now I think you are intending well, but you are not winning friends and influencing peoople.

And on a personal note, be careful about comparing the actions of Jesus Christ to that of yourself in posting this video. There are alot of things that Christ did that worked and would fail if I did them...he was Christ and I am not.

Remember what Paul said "I must become all things to all people to save a few" Very powerful words, and alot to think about.

Sorry to ramble...sermon done. Hope I did not offend anyone here!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> Now don't get me wrong, I believe all the things that they said on that short video clip, but one needs to remember that the video was made for a sermon illustration, not as an "outreach" method. Why? It is full of religious jargon that does nothing but pigeon-hole people like myself (and others) who do not act out our faith in that manner.


Huh? can you explain this better? Does a seed not lay on the floor of the forest, until the proper conditions cause it's growth? In what was does it not outreach? I heard him ask the question 'that's my King, do you know Him?'
--sounds like he is outreaching to me, what am I missing? Would people that wandered into his church, not knowing Christ, be heading for the door, in disgust, after hearing this? Why? I'm only asking, as I do not know any better



> Is there anything wrong with that video? No. Theologically it is sound in everything that it says, but the method that it was used was not well suited.


In what way was it not well suited? Can you explain this better? It is only saying who He is, right? Don't you have to explain who Christ is, to share?



> Let me give another illustration. I work with Jr. and Sr. High students aged 12 thorugh 18 years old. Lets pretend that I have the oppourtunity to plan an event for my students and being a pastor I get the chance to tell them all about Jesus. What kind of event am I going to plan?
> How about I take all the teens to the local nursing home to give sponge baths to the residents all over 85 years old. I can bet my holey underwear that I would get NOBODY to show up for that event (except for those that are really twisted in their mind).
> 
> See, my intentions were good, the manner in which I went about achieving my goal was off, and in the end was not effective. And in the end, the parents of the teens feel that I am some kind of sicko pervert for planning such an event. Not only was I NOT effective in my planning, the side affect is that people percieve me as a sicko pervert...does that make sense?


With all respect, I don't see the connection between sharing Christ with a sermon that gives all of His 'rightful names,' with planning an elderly spongebath outing with teens.
So then, how do you tell them about Christ without making you look like a perverted sicko?? 
Did anyone ever share the Lord, without first helping them in physical ways? Is this against the teaching of our Lord? I am unaware if so. Sorry



> I know Dippy and we have talked numerous times via e-mail and he has a good heart and nothing but 100% good intentions. But he and I go about things differently. Not bad, just different. I do not know OneEighty...but he and I seem to be exactly in line with each other in how we go about illustrating Christ to others.


Is it lawful, then, that we all must go about sharing Christ in the same way? Does that mean that no one in the body of Christ should post a 'worthless waste of bandwidth' in a website, because everyone will think he is a whacko? 
-I don't believe everyone thinks I'm a whacko. Some definately do, but on the other hand, some don't-- And I know that. 
Again, I will say that lots of people have been slain for sharing Christ for the last 2,000 years.
Are you saying that they all have died in vain? Are you saying that no one thought that they were whackos?

I have shared countless times with people on this site, trying to help them with their aquariums... And so have many other people who in no way are Christians.. I don't really have to convince you of that, so that I can share a sermon on the awesome names of Christ, do I?

Are you sure that my posts has not planted a seed at all in anyones heart concearning Jesus Christ? 10 years from now a seed could sprout.. am I wrong?



> And on a personal note, be careful about comparing the actions of Jesus Christ to that of yourself in posting this video. There are alot of things that Christ did that worked and would fail if I did them...he was Christ and I am not.


Was I comparing Christ to myself, or was I trying to share Him like His commands have stated? I am in no way comparing my actions to His. I am merely sharing Him as He commanded --in my mind.



> Remember what Paul said "I must become all things to all people to save a few" Very powerful words, and alot to think about.


Yes, I remember the words of Paul the Apostle of Christ.. LOL--A man who got his head chopped off while he was 'becomeing all things to all people'
I guess someone must have thought he was a dangerous whacko, do you agree?



> Sorry to ramble...sermon done. Hope I did not offend anyone here!


No offence taken, I hope you are not offended by my reply to you, care to respond?


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Dippy...I am not sure what you want here man?

You contact me and want me to post my opinion on this issue and I did, then you want me to defend my statement...not going to happen. Why? Becasue I don't need to defend my position. You can plant your seeds all you want...I don't really care.

You asked my opinion and I gave it to you...who are you reaching here? Who is listening to you? Who are you "bringing into the kingdom" with your choice of "outreach" tools? I would venture to say absolutely no one. You have two people here kindly urging you that there may be a better way to do what you are doing...yet all you want is proof to show our opinion.

What did that video say? What message was that trying to give?

Now ask yourself...who is hearing the message past your percieved spiritual arrogance (meaning that you feel free to post this here unsolicited - that you are assuming that people want to watch it or need to watch it) in posting it here? You bring analogies that do not match up with scripture (your seed analogy is not even biblical in nature...look it up and you will see that seeds do not grow on every cast nor do they grow on every soil thrown!).

The analogy I used is very accurate! You are posting religious stuff that is NOT going to bring anyone to Christ, and you are doing so on a Piranha/Aquaria site...what in the world?

You are using what we call shotgun witnessing...and it has been proven to be not very effective. You point your spiritual shotgun in a direction (ie your video) and you pull the trigger and hope that it hits its mark (ie the viewer who sees it that "needs Jesus").

In the end this type of discussion is like nailing your foot to the floor and running in circles...we are not going to get anywhere (yes, I know I use that all the time). Feel free to do what you want..I will feel free to do what I want. But I think it is obvious in the comments that are left by everyone here that your method is not hitting the mark, only leaving spiritual birdshot in people's butts.


----------



## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

as soon as i saw "Sermonspice.com" at the top of page i closed it.

is it like myspace for bible thumpers or something???


----------



## Guest (Feb 19, 2006)

Its cool to be a Christian Puff...dont hate...









http://youth.sermonspice.com/catalog/produ...products_id=722


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> You contact me and want me to post my opinion on this issue and I did, then you want me to defend my statement...not going to happen. Why? Becasue I don't need to defend my position. You can plant your seeds all you want...I don't really care.


? I dont want to argue with you, but it seems you are offended.. I asked you questions that I have about your post, is that ok?
You are a Pastor, can you teach me what you are trying to say? I honestly do not understand you anger and indifferance towards me



> You asked my opinion and I gave it to you...who are you reaching here? Who is listening to you? Who are you "bringing into the kingdom" with your choice of "outreach" tools? I would venture to say absolutely no one. You have two people here kindly urging you that there may be a better way to do what you are doing...yet all you want is proof to show our opinion.


My goodness, is it that bad to share a link on this? Jeff, comeon!! lol You thought that the video clip that made Jesus look like a joke was cool, and this one is a 'waste of bandwidth?' 
Your opinion says no one would hear this message, and come to faith ever. 'Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.'
Jesus' names from the Bible were being mentioned in that video. I trust in His word, is that ok, Jeff?
There may be a better way, I asked you what that way was.. I was confused about it, so I asked you to tell me.. Please do is what I am asking



> What did that video say? What message was that trying to give?


It shared who Christ really is?



> Now ask yourself...who is hearing the message past your percieved spiritual arrogance (meaning that you feel free to post this here unsolicited - that you are assuming that people want to watch it or need to watch it) in posting it here? You bring analogies that do not match up with scripture (your seed analogy is not even biblical in nature...look it up and you will see that seeds do not grow on every cast nor do they grow on every soil thrown!).


While I would agree that this needless bickering does nothing for the cause of Christ, was it me in posting this who was arrogant, or was it the ones telling me that what I did is wrong? I openly share Christ in here, in my mind with love for Him, and the lost?
I am admittedly not perfect. Far, Far from it

Help me understand, Jeff, as I honestly can't answer the question of who was arrogant... Nor do I wish to point a finger.. I see no wrong in sharing a sermon about the names of Christ. And frankly, I dont see many who are offended besides the other 2 Christians in here.. who was offended, Pac? If you read this Pac, sorry bro, I didn't mean to offend you!! 
I posted this so that someone might watch it, and eventually get to know Christ? How is that wrong? Please tell me
And as far as the seed is concearned, you are exactly right, the seed does not take root on every cast.. but have you noticed that it was casted, in hopes of it taking root? 
The seed is the word, right? the video was the word of God concearning the names of Christ? I am so sorry that you are mad at me..
Please share with me how you get people to know Christ.. So I can be effective. You have not gone there yet.



> The analogy I used is very accurate! You are posting religious stuff that is NOT going to bring anyone to Christ, and you are doing so on a Piranha/Aquaria site...what in the world?


Are you so very sure as to tell me that absolutely no one in the whole world could not be affected for the cause of Christ for hearing a sermon on the names of Christ on a piranha site? Where then?

Not many, I agree, but it isn't hurting is it? You have that little faith that His word can't reach a piranha hobbyist? Again, 'faith comes by hearing?' Jeff, I am baffled that you are this upset at me, honest.. why dont you tell me how its done instead of tearing me down? Please? 
If I am that bad, shouldnt you try to build me up? -I guess you are not my Pastor though.. But on here, I would consider you my Pastor. Your opinion matters to me, and I want to hear how you share your faith. I did it here by posting/helping people the best way I can, and sharing from a Christian perspective.. 
That is my heart for doing it.. Help?



> You are using what we call shotgun witnessing...and it has been proven to be not very effective. You point your spiritual shotgun in a direction (ie your video) and you pull the trigger and hope that it hits its mark (ie the viewer who sees it that "needs Jesus").


So I take it that the apostles standing up in synogoges, and street witnessing, and missionaries, presence evangelism, and video sharing is a horrible way to share Christ? Didn't 3,000 people come to faith in Christ after a sermon delivered by Peter in the book of Acts? Were all of them willing? Were all of their needs met by Peter before he shared his testimony?
What I am asking is, when is it the right time, when they come to you only? -I don't believe that is the only time you can win someone for Christ. Not at all, and I don't find that in the scriptures. 
I believe that your way is excellent, but there are other ways as well.



> In the end this type of discussion is like nailing your foot to the floor and running in circles...we are not going to get anywhere (yes, I know I use that all the time). Feel free to do what you want..I will feel free to do what I want. But I think it is obvious in the comments that are left by everyone here that your method is not hitting the mark, only leaving spiritual birdshot in people's butts.


I don't look at it that way at all. I see your point, I respect that.

I don't get people complaining to me about my posts very often.. a few do, and they are free to do so, as you are. 
Again I'll ask how you hit the mark consistently? 
You are obviously more grown up than me in your faith. 
You are obviously more tactful in your approach. 
You are obviously more equipped than I to reach many for the cause of Christ.
You obviously have insight that I do not possess.

Now can you share in a way that I understand>?

Please, I want to see a show of hands that thinks I need to stop posting anything like this in a open, free forum besides: Pastor Jeff, Pac, Puff, SirOneEghty, and gut.

I will completely stop saying anything at all about faith if we get a good showing here... share with your P-fury friends please!


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow...I really don't know what to say.

I am in now way angered or upset...it would take a whole lot more than that to upset me. I must not be typing clearly...hmmm...









You are doing nothing wrong. Post away. Share your faith in this manner. YOU asked my opinion...that is the only reason I shared it, otherwise I would not have. This is NOT a hill I want to die on. But I do have to say, one does not usually ask for an opinion and then slap the hand of the person who gave it. If you didn't want me to be honest, then why ask me to be honest?







I have no problem with you at all...but in the future be careful about asking for an opinion when you really don't want it.









You feel strongly about this, so continue. There is nothing saying who is right or wrong, just circumstances that shape us into who we are and the way we want to deal with these issues. You handle them one way, I handle them another.

Take care my friend.


----------



## Guest (Feb 19, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Please, I want to see a show of hands that thinks I need to stop posting anything like this in a open, free forum besides: Pastor Jeff, Pac, Puff, SirOneEghty, and gut.


Nobody is offended by what you posted, so I believe you can post anything you want. I guess what Pastor Jeff is trying to say is that posting a link to a sermon is well-intentioned, but an ineffective means to bring people to Christ.

I was religous for a few years of my life. Prior to that, nothing could get me to even believe there even was a 'God'. Not my mother waking me up early every Sunday morning and dragging me off to Sunday School until I was 13, not Jehovah Witnesses pounding on my door at eight in the morning to preach the Word when I'm trying to rush off to work, not the people randomly handing out fliers to passer-bys on the streets of NYC, nothing.

If someone is not ready to receive Christ into their life, the words just don't have any meaning or value. It's just some guy talking. Know what I mean?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> Wow...I really don't know what to say.
> 
> I am in now way angered or upset...it would take a whole lot more than that to upset me. I must not be typing clearly...hmmm...
> 
> ...


Pastor Jeff, I appreciate your insight.. I am not angry either, ok? Never have been..

I only asked your opinion because of what SirOneEighty said in here --Read back as see that I really didn't want to do that, but it seemed unavoidable. -sorry about the email lol

I wanted your opinion! And, I wanted to know your approach on witnessing, because mine is criticized by 2 Christians in here. I want to see other ways of doing it, or witnessing through mind-melding or something non-verbal.. lol j/k
As the only Pastor on the site, can you share with me? You can keep it personal, via email if you like.. But I am still waiting







I really want to hear.

My replies to you was merely to share my perspective on it. I never see you witnessing/reaching out in here, in any way at all. My question still stands. How do you 'hit the mark' as you share Christ? 
I am obviously wrong in my approach.


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Nobody is offended by what you posted, so I believe you can post anything you want. I guess what Pastor Jeff is trying to say is that posting a link to a sermon is well-intentioned, but an ineffective means to bring people to Christ.


Thanks Bullsnake...that is exactly my position!


----------



## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

ot: what demoniation are you connected to pastor jeff?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Bullsnake said:


> Please, I want to see a show of hands that thinks I need to stop posting anything like this in a open, free forum besides: Pastor Jeff, Pac, Puff, SirOneEghty, and gut.


Nobody is offended by what you posted, so I believe you can post anything you want. I guess what Pastor Jeff is trying to say is that posting a link to a sermon is well-intentioned, but an ineffective means to bring people to Christ.

I was religous for a few years of my life. Prior to that, nothing could get me to even believe there even was a 'God'. Not my mother waking me up early every Sunday morning and dragging me off to Sunday School until I was 13, not Jehovah Witnesses pounding on my door at eight in the morning to preach the Word when I'm trying to rush off to work, not the people randomly handing out fliers to passer-bys on the streets of NYC, nothing.

If someone is not ready to receive Christ into their life, the words just don't have any meaning or value. It's just some guy talking. Know what I mean?
[/quote]
Hi Bull

I understand what all of you are saying.. but I look at it like this..

"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the spirit" --John 3:8

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life." --John 14-15

I am merely lifting up my savior, that is why I post. I truly believe that someone can come to the savior by posts such as these! There are 10,000 people on this site who are members! 
None of us really know where they are at in life. There are hurting people on every block! There are searchers in every taco bell line, and mcdonalds drive throughs..

Here is who my King is.. Do you know Him? --excellent question. Am I hurting someone, or pointing at the King of the universe?

and Pastor Jeff, I take both views on that

there are the pre-destined, and the free-willed who can come to faith


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Ex0dus said:


> ot: what demoniation are you connected to pastor jeff?


Evangelical Free...kinda like Baptist without the empasis on salvific nature of baptism (I understand that not all my Baptist brothers feel that baptism is salvific in nature...I am speaking generally)


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

All I have to say is that there are plenty of people of other faiths on this board. Many people know my stance on religion and what I believe. I feel comfortable speaking to PastorJeff because of how he goes about having discussions. To me, Dippy seems to do the "beer bong" method of talking about religion...pour all at once, usually causing the subject to choke. I used to love getting into religious discussions but I don't really even try here anymore because of that. The "shotgun" analogy is also perfect. On the other hand, PastorJeff actually discusses things and shows interest in other people's ideas and beliefs (and not to pigeon-hole them). A Christian can be friends with and collaborate with non-Christians, and not put down other beliefs simply because they don't end with Jesus. I greatly respect a person like that.


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> A Christian can be friends with and collaborate with non-Christians, and not put down other beliefs simply because they don't end with Jesus.


Very well said! But the sad fact is that many Christians cannot do this...


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

dracofish said:


> A Christian can be friends with and collaborate with non-Christians, and not put down other beliefs simply because they don't end with Jesus.


Very well said! But the sad fact is that many Christians cannot do this...
[/quote]
Oh Pastor Jeff.. lol ..How is this video not lifting up the savior? I realize that He was lifted up on the cross, as was the serpent on the stick, but can't you say that we lift Him up by worship?

and sharing how wonderful He is?

I believe that it is not error to believe in both views Pastor Jeff, and I dont see how that could be wrong, not saying you are

I believe that God will move when His people move by His command.. and He moves most often by Himselfm He does not need us to carry out anything He wants to do

and His command is to go and preach the gospel to all nations

I am sorry I hack and mangle the word of God according to you, Pastor Jeff.


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I understand, Draco, but please, show me where I have choked people with my faith


Dippy - THIS is how you are doing it! Draco gave her OPINION...this is how Draco FEELS. You challenge Draco's opinoin by saying "How am I..." when that does not matter. Remember...in communication PERCEPTION IS REALITY!

When I communicate with someone (I am the sender) I always have to be mindful of the fact that what I am saying does not matter...what matters is how it is recieved (by the reciever). So when giving a message, coming back with "How am I..." is like saying "I don't care what you say"

Just something to think about


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

I don't hate hearing about Jesus. I don't hate Jesus, and I certainly don't hate Christians. You forget, I grew up a Chrisitan. I grew up around people that would associate with non-Christians, but only to witness to them. Everything that wasn't Biblical in nature was considered bad. Indulgences, sex other than for procreation, non-Christian music, Steven Seagal movies...the list goes on and on. If it wasn't an activity meant to praise the Lord, then it was bad. That's where I grew up. I grew up in a group that was outwardly friendly to everyone but only to serve the means to bring more people to God. Witnessing and belching scripture was not an option in my church. I guess that's why I always felt uncomfortable.

Now, here's what happened once I ended up on the outside. I remain respectful of the Christian peers that give me respect in return. But, I realized that in many cases, the actions of my ex-friends only chased away people. People feared them, even disliked them, because they did (and still do) come off as very "holier than thou."

You have never bluntly put down others of a different faith, but believe me, when every other paragraph is something to do with "the one True Faith" or the only road to salvation being through Jesus, it can be construed as looking down on other paths.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I am no Theologian, and niether was Abraham, Moses, Peter, and many of His servants who has only listened to Him by faith


----------



## Guest (Feb 19, 2006)

But talk does not cook rice


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> I understand, Draco, but please, show me where I have choked people with my faith


Dippy - THIS is how you are doing it! Draco gave her OPINION...this is how Draco FEELS. You challenge Draco's opinoin by saying "How am I..." when that does not matter. Remember...in communication PERCEPTION IS REALITY!

When I communicate with someone (I am the sender) I always have to be mindful of the fact that what I am saying does not matter...what matters is how it is recieved (by the reciever). So when giving a message, coming back with "How am I..." is like saying "I don't care what you say"

Just something to think about
[/quote]

But I can say to you, Pastor Jeff, that you have knocked me down, kicked me in the teeth, chewed me up, spit me out, and told me what a fool you thought I was, and I bet you would want me to either show you where you did it to me, or apologized.. But I believed that you have fueled anger towards me, instead of teaching, being tactful like you say you do

Draco, I am sorry, I have nothing against anyone, especially you. Forgive me?


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> But I can say to you, Pastor Jeff, that you have knocked me down, kicked me in the teeth, chewed me up, spit me out, and told me what a fool you thought I was, and I bet you would want me to either show you where you did it to me, or apologized.. But I believed that you have fueled anger towards me, instead of teaching, being tactful like you say you do
> 
> Draco, I am sorry, I have nothing against anyone, especially you. Forgive me?


Buddy...

YOU e-mailed me...

YOU asked me to post my opinion and you stated "Your honest thoughts are requested..."

YOU then went on to say "and I hope you do not hold back at all.. Let it out please. If I am turning people away, please share some insight with me"

Then when I do what you ask, you cry sour grapes. I NEVER called you a fool. I never kicked you in the teeth, and I never chewed you up and spit you out.

Rather, you wanted me to come on here and support you just because we believe the same. Like I said before, if you don't want my opinion...why ask for it?

I think this discussion needs to end. It is going nowhere. I am sorry you feel the way you do. We are just going to have to "agree to disagree" on this issue.

Take care


----------



## Guest (Feb 19, 2006)

This is why Im not part of the church


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DannyBoy17 said:


> This is why Im not part of the church


Dannyboy - this is my biggest frustration in the church. I deal with this every day. This is exactly the outcome that I hate...there are great parts of the church when you find the right one you connect with. Sorry this is the one you got today


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

dracofish said:


> But I can say to you, Pastor Jeff, that you have knocked me down, kicked me in the teeth, chewed me up, spit me out, and told me what a fool you thought I was, and I bet you would want me to either show you where you did it to me, or apologized.. But I believed that you have fueled anger towards me, instead of teaching, being tactful like you say you do
> 
> Draco, I am sorry, I have nothing against anyone, especially you. Forgive me?


Buddy...

YOU e-mailed me...

YOU asked me to post my opinion and you stated "Your honest thoughts are requested..."

YOU then went on to say "and I hope you do not hold back at all.. Let it out please. If I am turning people away, please share some insight with me"

Then when I do what you ask, you cry sour grapes. I NEVER called you a fool. I never kicked you in the teeth, and I never chewed you up and spit you out.

Rather, you wanted me to come on here and support you just because we believe the same. Like I said before, if you don't want my opinion...why ask for it?

I think this discussion needs to end. It is going nowhere. I am sorry you feel the way you do. We are just going to have to "agree to disagree" on this issue.

Take care
[/quote]
you havent showed me how you effectively share Christ yet

I never expect anything as a result of my sharing.. that would be a blessing!

maybe i wouldnt be sour grapees if you didnt kick me in the teeth! I asked you to share how you effectively sow seed for Christ, and you have absolutely ignored my request to enlighten me..

where do i say I was right? i know all you have said was that i hack and mangle the word, and that I dont know what im doing..

true, but I asked you to share, and all i get is more buckshot by YOU!


----------



## User (May 31, 2004)

DannyBoy17 said:


> This is why Im not part of the church


I found the discussions in this topic interesting.

I am not part of the church because I was brutally embarrassed during an alter call. You'd never guess I grew up in a christian home would you ? I have stories that was you'd think were funny, but was were misable to me.









I am glad though my grandparents finally realised what they had caused and what they could have prevented both in my life and in other peoples lives to.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I asked your opinion and the first thing you say to me is that this is a waste of bandwidth,,

that isnt kicking me in the teeth, was it?

I guess that was your love showing through lol



User said:


> This is why Im not part of the church


Dannyboy - this is my biggest frustration in the church. I deal with this every day. This is exactly the outcome that I hate...there are great parts of the church when you find the right one you connect with. Sorry this is the one you got today








[/quote]

There is nothing about this thread that I hate, I am very interested.. Take a vacation if you hate your ministry..lol

arent we all imperfect people? I guess ministry would be bliss if everyone was the same?


----------



## yorkshire (Jul 27, 2004)

Dippy, dont take it as a personal attack, you asked for the pastors opinion, and just 'cos he offered it i.e. waste of bandwidth, you take it as a kick in the teeth.
i can see that you mean well, and you believe in what you are saying, just like the pastor. lets just all agree to disagree eh? oh and keep smiling


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hi yorkie, welcome back!

The Pastors first post kicked me in the teeth, and has the whole time.. I understand what he was saying, but when I have asked him to share, I get nothing but more attacks,.. im not even offended lol

I am smiling, I have no beef, just waiting for the Pastor to tell me how his way of sharing reaches people better.

I have not meant to attack him at all until he just went over the edge, never addressing my questions, and saying basically what an idiot I am.

That is fine, im an idiot, and i agree lol.. but how about sharing with me how he effectively shares for the Lord?

I guess you have to be a schooled theologian, with all the right answers, and believe the exact right way, to be able to share faith. ugh..

I bet if I posted a vid of a chick in a swimsuit, smoking a J, having a cool one, Pastor Jeff would have respected my taste in posts.. 
Maybe the vid depicting Jesus as an idiot is Jeffs idea if a great vid post?


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> hi yorkie, welcome back!
> 
> The Pastors first post kicked me in the teeth, and has the whole time.. I understand what he was saying, but when I have asked him to share, I get nothing but more attacks,.. im not even offended lol
> 
> ...


I don't know what else to say here Dippy. For the last time, I am not kicking you in the teeth, I never called you an idiot. I am not sure why you are using such sarcasm in regards to me. I told you that you are not doing anything wrong, you can share any way you want.

And I will say this...your last sentence is going over the edge. Don't cry because you did not get what you want. How many people need to tell you the same thing before you will swallow your pride?

None of this is meant as a kick in the teeth.

Show this post to your Pastor and see if he respects it. Chances are he won't.


----------



## yorkshire (Jul 27, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> hi yorkie, welcome back!
> 
> The Pastors first post kicked me in the teeth, and has the whole time.. I understand what he was saying, but when I have asked him to share, I get nothing but more attacks,.. im not even offended lol
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome back Dippy








I'm pretty sure the pastor wasn't calling you an idiot, he just has a different aproach to spreading the word of God than you do. All the info you've shared with people, particularly in the planted tank department, shows you aint no idiot. I'm not into religeon myself, but respect the beliefs of those that are. I just feel that this thread has the potential to do more harm than good, i stear away from religeon because it seems to provoke too many arguments, and this thread seems to be re-enforcing that belief. you both believe in basically the same thing, but have different ways of sharing your faith to others. i cant say either of you are wrong, just coming at it from different directions.
Glad to hear you are still smiling


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> hi yorkie, welcome back!
> 
> The Pastors first post kicked me in the teeth, and has the whole time.. I understand what he was saying, but when I have asked him to share, I get nothing but more attacks,.. im not even offended lol
> 
> ...


I don't know what else to say here Dippy. For the last time, I am not kicking you in the teeth, I never called you an idiot. I am not sure why you are using such sarcasm in regards to me. I told you that you are not doing anything wrong, you can share any way you want.

And I will say this...your last sentence is going over the edge. Don't cry because you did not get what you want. How many people need to tell you the same thing before you will swallow your pride?

None of this is meant as a kick in the teeth.

Show this post to your Pastor and see if he respects it. Chances are he won't.
[/quote]
I already sent this thread to him, and hope he reads it..

He actually loves when people actively share faith, it is something that just isn't done, because so many people are scared to 'offend' someone..

The gospel is an offence. How can you really avoid that.. that was my question to you the whole time.. never got an answer. that is ok, i dont want it now.

Im not crying, lol.. I just can't get over how far this thread went, because a Pastor didn't like how I was sharing Christ in a video declaring the names of our same Lord.
You would have thought I shot someone with that shotgun..

all the while whooping it up in a post over how funny it is to depict Christ as a joke in another thread..


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Dippy, finding Christ has made you a better person. You like yourself better, that's all that matters. Following my own path has made me a better person. I feel whole and I like myself better. My path was different than yours. Is that so bad? Because my path didn't lead me to Christ is it really that bad? I have respect for my fellow human beings and have a great respect for Nature and the cycles of life. Is that so bad?

You say all the time that the only way to true salvation is through Christ. That's what you believe. Others may not. That's all I'm trying to say.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

yorkshire said:


> hi yorkie, welcome back!
> 
> The Pastors first post kicked me in the teeth, and has the whole time.. I understand what he was saying, but when I have asked him to share, I get nothing but more attacks,.. im not even offended lol
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome back Dippy








I'm pretty sure the pastor wasn't calling you an idiot, he just has a different aproach to spreading the word of God than you do. All the info you've shared with people, particularly in the planted tank department, shows you aint no idiot. I'm not into religeon myself, but respect the beliefs of those that are. I just feel that this thread has the potential to do more harm than good, i stear away from religeon because it seems to provoke too many arguments, and this thread seems to be re-enforcing that belief. you both believe in basically the same thing, but have different ways of sharing your faith to others. i cant say either of you are wrong, just coming at it from different directions.
Glad to hear you are still smiling








[/quote]
Thanks for the post!!

ya im smiling, i cant really wipe the smile from my face very often!!

I respect the Pastors position, and have stated that many times!

He never answered my questions, disspelling them because I dont share the same theological positions as he.. that is fine..

he dont have to share anything if he done want to.. I still love him, I am just baffled by his comments, like i 'offend people' left and right, and I 'shove my faith down ppls throats' and i 'dont have the scripture knowledge i need' and stuff.
I posted a video.. im sure a Pastor should have no problem getting over that.. i could be wrong


----------



## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

i think this is going in circles


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Gut said:


> i think this is going in circles


Yep...


----------



## User (May 31, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I am so glad that you found this thread as interesting as I!
> 
> I am very sorry for what has happened to you at Church


Don't be sorry, it made me a better person. (may sound absurd to you and other people)

I never was nor never will be a religious person, and it took an event like that to prove it. I have no doubt and its a life plus for me.

However, I actively participate in relgious threads but feel this will be the last. Its time to relinquish these types of debates altogether. Including the muslim/islamic threads.

/


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

dracofish said:


> Dippy, finding Christ has made you a better person. You like yourself better, that's all that matters. Following my own path has made me a better person. I feel whole and I like myself better. My path was different for yours. Is that so bad? Because my path didn't lead me to Christ is it really that bad? I have respect for my fellow human beings and have a great respect for Nature and the cycles of life. Is that so bad?
> 
> You say all the time that the only way to true salvation is through Christ. That's what you believe. Others may not. That's all I'm trying to say.


you are entitled to your own belief!!

I never said that you are not!!

you can share what you believe in WHOLEHEARTEDLY in this very thread even!!!! and I will not kick mud in your face!! lol

you know that!! Just because I say that "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but through Him" -that statement makes people very uneasy! but it is my hearts conviction ..and that is it!!

Does that mean to say that I hate others, or I cant be friends with others, or I cant laugh, have fun, or enjoy my life, or let others enjoy theirs??

Go ahead and enjoy yours to its fullest, Im enjoying mine!! I am happy for you, I really am!!

My point is that I have convictions and make them known.. I posted a vid, and I find that people have sour opinions on that!! --its a vid people! If you get offended by a video with no nudity, pornogrophy, or violence or something lol --turn it off!

You can even post how you hated its guts!! lol

I won't bite you!!


----------



## quickdeath (Jan 15, 2006)

I have seen that video before.. but I am glad I saw it again.. I dug it!!
I say show it.. I am missing what the point is about the debate here (not that I want in it.. cause I don't).. I'm just making an observation, somewhat blindly because I did not read everyones messages but just skimmed thru'. If you like the video cool.. if not, o.k. since we are all big boys and girls I say watch it if you want, and don't watch it if you don't want to. There's always that little (X) in the corner. As for me.. I liked it! 
here's looking at you my P-Furians!

QD


----------



## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

and not that i know anything about anything... but this is why i dont go to church. its like what danny said..... i feel as if its propoganda in a way


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> My point is that I have convictions and make them known.. I posted a vid, and I find that people have sour opinions on that!! --its a vid people! If you get offended by a video with no nudity, pornogrophy, or violence or something lol --turn it off!


Dippy....please read what I am saying for the 100th time. NOBODY has a problem with your video...absolutely nobody! It is a nice video. That was not the question to begin with.

The video is fine. NOBODY is saying anything about it being a bad video.

Just wanted to clear that up.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> My point is that I have convictions and make them known.. I posted a vid, and I find that people have sour opinions on that!! --its a vid people! If you get offended by a video with no nudity, pornogrophy, or violence or something lol --turn it off!


Dippy....please read what I am saying for the 100th time. NOBODY has a problem with your video...absolutely nobody! It is a nice video. That was not the question to begin with.

The video is fine. NOBODY is saying anything about it being a bad video.

Just wanted to clear that up.
[/quote]
ya, i just am not allowed to post it?


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> My point is that I have convictions and make them known.. I posted a vid, and I find that people have sour opinions on that!! --its a vid people! If you get offended by a video with no nudity, pornogrophy, or violence or something lol --turn it off!


Dippy....please read what I am saying for the 100th time. NOBODY has a problem with your video...absolutely nobody! It is a nice video. That was not the question to begin with.

The video is fine. NOBODY is saying anything about it being a bad video.

Just wanted to clear that up.
[/quote]
ya, i just am not allowed to post it?
[/quote]
NO! You can post it. Nobody said you couldn't post it!

I have said over and over, please go back and re-read my posts. You and I take a different approach toward this issue...and that is O.K. Post your video all you want.


----------



## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

please show us where someone said you cant post. i think that ui are just looking for a fight. you posted on a site that always throughs thier 2-cents in.... u knew that and u got it.... if u dont like it you shouldnt post. really reallly going in circles now. im getting dizzy


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Dippy, finding Christ has made you a better person. You like yourself better, that's all that matters. Following my own path has made me a better person. I feel whole and I like myself better. My path was different for yours. Is that so bad? Because my path didn't lead me to Christ is it really that bad? I have respect for my fellow human beings and have a great respect for Nature and the cycles of life. Is that so bad?
> 
> You say all the time that the only way to true salvation is through Christ. That's what you believe. Others may not. That's all I'm trying to say.


you are entitled to your own belief!!

I never said that you are not!!

you can share what you believe in WHOLEHEARTEDLY in this very thread even!!!! and I will not kick mud in your face!! lol

you know that!! Just because I say that "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but through Him" -that statement makes people very uneasy! but it is my hearts conviction ..and that is it!!

Does that mean to say that I hate others, or I cant be friends with others, or I cant laugh, have fun, or enjoy my life, or let others enjoy theirs??

Go ahead and enjoy yours to its fullest, Im enjoying mine!! I am happy for you, I really am!!

My point is that I have convictions and make them known.. I posted a vid, and I find that people have sour opinions on that!! --its a vid people! If you get offended by a video with no nudity, pornogrophy, or violence or something lol --turn it off!

You can even post how you hated its guts!! lol

I won't bite you!!
[/quote]

No, I don't feel the need to constantly witness myself to others. If someone asks, I will share. I already feel comfortable with my beliefs, and that's all that matters to me.

When you say that you are friends with non-Christians, does that mean that you can be friends with them, and correspond with them without having Christ always billowing on your sleeve? What if they were Buddhist? Or Hindu? Could you respect them and their beliefs and come to an understanding that they are just as strong in their convictions as you are in yours? Would you allow yourself to learn from them, or is everything they say words of the "fiend" to you? Is your only interest in them to see if you can bring them to Christ? How would you feel if they only talked about their beliefs? That's what I'm getting at.

And the video didn't bother me. I'll admit that I didn't even watch it and have no interest in doing so. I was only responding to the created coversation of there being yet another religious thread.


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Don't get me wrong, I respect you and am glad that you are not afraid to believe in something. However, I believe that variety is the spice of life.


----------



## Guest (Feb 19, 2006)

This thread hasnt gotten any better.

Why do people think sharing their faith to closed ears is the right thing to do? Every religion has people who do this. I am Christian. I am Buddhist. I am Spiritual and I am Pegan. And I dont really care if someone says Im not allowed to be, because a true God would never condem someone who found happiness and peace, despite thier path.

I found my spirituality through living, not through the words of another's mouth


----------



## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Wow...I was at an overnight last night with about 40 Jr. and Sr. High students, came home and took a nap, woke up and had a good amount of e-mails and pm's asking my input about this thread. Thanks for asking guys (and gals if any of you are female!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that has to be one of the best composed reply's I have ever seen on this site. I am hugely impressed


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

So, all of this because I posted a video on the Biblical names of Christ..

It sure does compare to sharing Christ by washing 85 year olds bare backsides

I can see that one clearly LOL

it makes perfect sense, if you don't believe in the power of God's word.. and that is fine by me!!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Boy, you really have to have a seriously planned out method if you are going to please THIS crowd!! 
*whew*
'No basic fishermen allowed to cast out a net sticker' *here*


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

DiPpY, if I may chime in with my humble opinion here...

I'll be honest, I didn't watch your video, the only reason being is it's something I have zero interest in. I have no interest in Christianity and I knew this wasn't my cup of tea from the start. Do I have a problem with you posting it or am I offended by it ? Absolutely not.

This thread has gotten my interest after seeing an exchange between you and Pastor Jeff. Let me say, I have a great deal of respect for the both of you, which is why I nominated you both for the MAB. I am very puzzled and intrigued as to your reaction to Pastor's posts. Often times, reading the threads, it really seems like you are grasping at straws - like the times you are claiming that Jeff is offended and is "kicking you in the teeth" when he has displayed nothing of the sort in his replies. It seems to me that you are taking it a bit too personally - it's almost as if your ego is taking a hit because YOU started the thread and YOU thought it'd be a good idea to post the video; and anyone that disagrees with your approach is attacking you personally.

My take is - pretty much what Pastor said - it's OK to disagree. You do it your way and don't worry about what others think. Others may disagree with your approach and that's OK. You are obviously very passionate about your faith, which is commandable. But there is no need to be seeking for anyone else's approval. You reach out and those that are ready to receive your message will reach back. And if not - well, hey, you tried, right ?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

quickdeath said:


> This thread hasnt gotten any better.
> 
> Why do people think sharing their faith to closed ears is the right thing to do? Every religion has people who do this. I am Christian. I am Buddhist. I am Spiritual and I am Pegan. And I dont really care if someone says Im not allowed to be, because a true God would never condem someone who found happiness and peace, despite thier path.
> 
> I found my spirituality through living, not through the words of another's mouth


you are allowed to be all you want to be, even in my eyes lol danny now take this!!!!!















(my spiritual shotguns!!)


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Ron Mexico said:


> DiPpY, if I may chime in with my humble opinion here...
> 
> I'll be honest, I didn't watch your video, the only reason being is it's something I have zero interest in. I have no interest in Christianity and I knew this wasn't my cup of tea from the start. Do I have a problem with you posting it or am I offended by it ? Absolutely not.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post, and I will kep what you have said in mind, as what Jeff has said..

I really wanted to know truthfully how he shares his faith in a way that is better than the way I do, because I want to know.. seriously.. I have never ever heard him try in here, I know he has a reason for that, I was inquiring..
I am not saying I wasn't wrong in anything I have said.. But if you didn't understand what someone was fully saying to you, would you ask them to share in a way you could understand?

I seriously know I talk about my faith openly. I seriously know that some can't accept that, and I am fine with that.
What I want to know is, how am I turning away people from Christ by a specific post of mine that shared too overbearing, and was crappy towards people..besides to Pastor Jeff in which Im very sorry for?

I don't understand, except for the fact that I share a lot. I asked for guidance, and I got nothing, in my eyes.. Im not upset, just confused that he will not lead me into a deeper understanding of what he is saying..
Now he has broken fellowship because I noticed that he praised and laughed at a Jesus bashing video, which I dont mind if he does, and im sure he dont care what i think anyway, and is saying Im hurting the cause for Christ by posting this.. to me it seems like.. this video!

all I want is (even personally through email or something) Jeff to show me.. fine if he dont, i just dont see his point completely otherwise.


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Dippy - I am going to make one more attempt at trying to explain my stance. I have tried a couple of different times here already and you only got more upset with me.

*First of all...I am not saying that you are wrong! I am not saying that what you are posting is theologically incorrect! I want that understood by you. You are not wrong with what you are doing!*

But *I* feel that there is a more effective way to do what you are doing...that is my stance!

Here is my stance...

It is NOT our job to continually shot-gun blast people with Jesus. In most of your threads (other than the water plants area) you directly bring up Jesus or Christianity whether it is asked for or not. This is a very direct approach to bring the gospel every chance you can get.

I however do not do that....here is why. I do not believe that it is my job to do so. It is my job to be a living example of Jesus Christ rather than TELLING people what the bible says unsolicited. When people see that I am open to them, their beliefs, their actions, their thoughts, they are much more open to discussion with me about ANYTHING.

It boils down to the fact that I am very RELATIONAL in my ministry style. I go for the friendship first and religious discussion second.

Here's why...

I do not believe that I can argue anyone into the kingdom what-so-ever. I may be able to bring someone to Christ (and this has happened alot...) but I am not going to do it by throwing religion in their face.

Why?

Because people end up EXPECTING me to do that and end up tuning me out as a resounding gong making no difference in their lives what so ever. Neil Peart (drummer from Rush) made the following statement "The gong is dumb, but it it is undeniable when done right"

I feel that spiritually it is no different. When someone goes throwing Jesus around every chance they get, it gets ignored. But when done right, it is undeniable! People here talk with me on PM's, e-mail, and over the phone. I have done phone counseling for different people (regarding a troubled child), worked with a couple where drug use was involved, and helped another person who wanted accountability regarding being on porn all the time.

Would these people have come to me if I was constantly throwing Jesus all over the place? If all they got from me was "The Reverend Jeffrey" rather than Jeff the human that is REAL in regards to the humanity that has been thrust upon me?

Take the video you keep shoving in my face about mocking Jesus Christ. This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. When the video was shown with a Jesus figure singing "I will survive" and then getting blasted by a bus, you posted a link describing who Jesus really is.

I laughed at teh video and saw it for what it was, a post-moderistic view of Jesus Christ through a modern society. Many people view Christ as being not in touch with the real world. And this video showed that in a drastic way with the Christ figure being so concerned about proclaiming "I will survive" that he was oblivious and so out of touch that he was blasted by a bus.

I have had numerous discussions about the video here, and I belive it was becasue of my stance.

You are right when you say that scripture (the Bible) is offensive...it is. But I feel that we as believers shoud NOT be. Scripture can be, I cannot.

That is my stance. Hope this helps to calm things down. Any thoughts from anyone?

I gotta go teach Sunday School.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

consider this a *humble absolute apology Pastor Jeff*. I am sorry that we wasted a nice saturday with this..

I was not seeing through quotes _like_ the 'shotgun witnessing' and 'No one will EVER have a seed planted for Christ' as a result of anything you post.. ect, etc.. no matter how right you may have been. Or not. That is not the question..

I see your point in it's proper light now. I hope you understand that it took a non-Christian who cares about me in this forum to share your point without the sarcasm, with love and care.

Sorry it has left me with a bad taste in my mouth, I got over it, and hope that we may stand together, in one mind and spirit from this moment foreward.

Hope we can share many a fish story in the future Jeff







take care and God bless you



PastorJeff said:


> Dippy - I am going to make one more attempt at trying to explain my stance. I have tried a couple of different times here already and you only got more upset with me.
> 
> *First of all...I am not saying that you are wrong! I am not saying that what you are posting is theologically incorrect! I want that understood by you. You are not wrong with what you are doing!*
> 
> ...


thanks, 
all im asking is, why couldnt you do this in the first place..

thank you for saying this.. it puts it all into perspective. point thouroghly taken, I agree with you, I heard that lol

finally, great post


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> all im asking is, why couldnt you do this in the first place..
> 
> thank you for saying this.. it puts it all into perspective. point thouroghly taken, I agree with you, I heard that lol
> 
> finally, great post


Dippy - I have not said anything new...just had to re-word it for the fifth time. Glad this is settled.


----------



## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

I know my God works in my life daily and through my actions in lives of others. I don't believe however that All the Buddhists,Jewish, Muslim or any specific faith are going to hell or heaven any faster or slower than me if they live properly. I don't believe that Catholic's going to confession will help you anymore than just doing the right things in life.
I believe in one common God that we all must answer to someday, it's money or global separation that has religion divided in to so many distinct sects.

My God has a sense of humor and allows me to have one but not at the cost of others.
I don't think there is a wrong way to celebrate your beliefs so long as they are with good intentions and positive but not in a manner that suppresses others views.
I've managed to stay sober now for going on 8 years finding my God.
Now, those are *my* beliefs and I fit evolution in there too since my mind doesn't allow me to ignore hard facts.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> all im asking is, why couldnt you do this in the first place..
> 
> thank you for saying this.. it puts it all into perspective. point thouroghly taken, I agree with you, I heard that lol
> 
> finally, great post


Dippy - I have not said anything new...just had to re-word it for the fifth time. Glad this is settled.
[/quote]
i needed time to get YOUR spiritual birdshot out of MY butt.

Jeff, you dont know everything, and I accept you--you are not the end of the end of what Gods word means--I know that--neither am i
you WERE NOT being nice at all to me, no matter how many people hate me, or how loving you think you are. 
I dont care if you, or anyone else hates me--that is your prison, not mine
I share my Lord, you dont like it fine. you can even tell me you dont like it

but I am not here to impress you, to get you to say how wonderful you think i am
I have made lots of friends helping, and talking to others in this site, or hopefully i have.
you do not see that, fine
you can be your way, and i believe that is excellent
But leave me be me. 
You come in here and use harsh terms about how im 'hurting the cause' all the while fighting with a member of the same body of believers who needs all of us to function properly.. can you find that in your theological studies? Do I have to impress Pastor Jeff before I'm 'helping the cause'

I love you Jeff, I just cant see why you have to INSULT me instead of sharing lovingly.. I read some of your website, and I see that I am not the only one who thinks this about you, of whom you shepherd.

Ya, the way you approached me in your first posts were in my opinion.. unloving, and tactless, and arrogantly worded, but my opinion doesnt matter to you.... so? im over it lets move on, you wont admit it


----------



## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

i really dont think he or anyone for that matter was trying to insult you


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I'm over it lets move on, you wont admit it


Sounds good to me. Take care.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

welp I just found out that the greatest man of the faith has told me that I am an apostate.

My birth of the spirit was not real, and I am not on a journey to the Lord.

He has the book of life in his hand, he should know


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> welp I just found out that the greatest man of the faith has told me that I am an apostate.
> 
> My birth of the spirit was not real, and I am not on a journey to the Lord.
> 
> He has the book of life in his hand, he should know


Joe,

There is something seriously wrong with you! You have sent me well over 15 e-mails scorching me, and now you post this garbage?

Apostate - Apostasy (Greek απο, apo, "away, apart", στασις, stasis, "standing") is the formal renunciation of one's religion. In a technical sense as used by sociologists without the sometimes pejorative connotations of the word, the term refers to renunciation and criticizing one's former religion. An old, narrow definition of this term refers to baptized Christians who leave their faith.

Where did I call you an apostate? This is a simple disagreement between a STYLE. You have gone way over the deep end on this one! Take a breath, calm down and just be willing to agree to disagree. I don't consider you an apostate...good Lord! Where in my e-mail or here did I say you have renounced your faith?









What do I need to do to smooth this over? No matter what I do, your angry.









It is o.k. to disagree. Let me know what I need to do to make this right and to calm you down...and I will do it.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

you have not seen it in my last 45 posts


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

O.K.

For the record...

I am wrong with what I am saying and I have been unbiblical in my approach. DippyEggs does a great job in being a warrior for Christ and his methods for evangelism are direct and effective in reaching the lost for Christ.

I am arrogant in my actions and my assumptions that my way was better.

Dippy, forgive me for what I posted here. It will not happen again. It really won't.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> O.K.
> 
> For the record...
> 
> ...


I understand and accept your stance, and respect it wholeheartedly!! wonderful point!

to me, we are both at fault.

And you are absolutely forgiven Jeff.. I dont care what it looks like to anyone in here, I find no fault in you, except for* my arrogant desire * for you to admit your approach was unloving lol


----------



## User (May 31, 2004)

I can't understand how this conversation is still going, its illogical


----------



## SirOneEighty (Nov 20, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> O.K.
> 
> For the record...
> 
> ...


I would apologize for what has become an open can of worms, but I don't think that the situation warrants one.

Dippy, I was not offended in the slightest by your posted video, but to be totally honest I am hurt by the fact that you call upon PastorJeff in your defense and have gone round after round with him shooting back at him after he merely states his opiniona nd point of view.

I wanted you to know in the very beginning exactly what you have read here in this thread. Your shotgun approach, as it is effectively called by Jeff, is what I call ineffective. I see it as a way to show others they are wrong, repremand them for it, make sure they understand they are going to Hell, and then tell them "but remember, God loves you".

This method is the reason that all of the strong Christians that make up my closest group of friends either are permanantly disillusioned from the Chruch, or have had to find their own truth back to their faith.

I've had that Bible-thumping weapon pointed at me many times, and not once has it made me want to go home and search out a closer walk with Him.

Dannyboy's post about his joy in being outside of the church is not what you want to be reading here. Dippy, these open and publicly embarrassing quarrels make us Christians look more like a bunch of immature and closed-minded people carrying Bibles and consulting them before we cross the street to see if it glorifies God.

I am not attempting to start any more openly hurtful posting. This is my last post in this thread unless the overall tone swings back up towards mature and informative. Dippy, you are more than welcome to PM me here if you still think I am misguided in my posting.


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

It was over. It was all over and everyone was happy. But no, we have to go back and rehash the same ridiculous argument - if you ask me, all because someone's ego is way too sensitive to criticism.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> I do know that your persona online makes you come off as Benicio Del Toro's character in 21 Grams. Overbearing and unbending, you approach all problems with the same level of idealism.


loving statement, true to some, but unloving in public


> as rub it in other's faces.


i asked where --u dont want to do that your loving opinion 


> How about I take all the teens to the local nursing home to give sponge baths to the residents all over 85 years old. I can bet my holey underwear that I would get NOBODY to show up for that event (except for those that are really twisted in their mind).


insulting and rediculous analogy to my post, meant to cut


> The analogy I used is very accurate! You are posting religious stuff that is NOT going to bring anyone to Christ, and you are doing so on a Piranha/Aquaria site...what in the world?


your opinion--is this the love of the bretheren? Gods spokesperson, undeniably


> Not only was I NOT effective in my planning, the side affect is that people percieve me as a sicko pervert...does that make sense?


another loving analogy, meant to cut, if not, it did cut--as have all of these


> So we really cannot go any further on this discussion, becasue you feel that God will move in anything you do if God chooses to, as long as the person chooses to come to God in the first place.


ouch.. that did cut thanks, may I have another! makes no sense


> Dippy - what if instead of hearing those words in a boring video (I think it is anyways...) they saw those words ILLUSTRATED in your actions on this site...cause right now I think you are intending well, but you are not winning friends and influencing peoople.


This is pure love. he also has no idea if i have made friends in here, showed love to people, and can not possibly know what God is doing all the time


> Your definitions are flawed at the very core if you are taking this stance (like saying the moon is white when your definition of white is actually orange).


top theologian in the house, knows the word of God to the point that if you dont see it his way, you are a flawed noisy gong. cutting and shredding in a pure, and perfectly loving manner, causing a warm feeling in the room


> Very well said! But the sad fact is that many Christians cannot do this...


a truly wonderful thing to say, saying that I can not tolerate other faiths, and have to continually shove my faith in ppls faces. he knows me well, he is my next door neighbor.. he cant come over because i invite him over and feed him Christ instead of dinner


> Sorry to ramble...sermon done. Hope I did not offend anyone here!


these are some posts that offended me. some from the 1st page. Jeff has a point but can not see that this way of mildly breaking me down with word jabs is not edifying. 
Yes, you offended me. Yes I am flawed. Yes, you dont know it all. me either. Yes, you think you are wonderful on how you handled me. Dont bother apologizing because you won't. 
You are fine and have not done a thing wrong in your approach to me.. nice to others, but awful to me. thats my opinion, you didnt ask for it, but you got it



SirOneEighty said:


> O.K.
> 
> For the record...
> 
> ...


I would apologize for what has become an open can of worms, but I don't think that the situation warrants one.

Dippy, I was not offended in the slightest by your posted video, but to be totally honest I am hurt by the fact that you call upon PastorJeff in your defense and have gone round after round with him shooting back at him after he merely states his opiniona nd point of view.

I wanted you to know in the very beginning exactly what you have read here in this thread. Your shotgun approach, as it is effectively called by Jeff, is what I call ineffective. I see it as a way to show others they are wrong, repremand them for it, make sure they understand they are going to Hell, and then tell them "but remember, God loves you".

This method is the reason that all of the strong Christians that make up my closest group of friends either are permanantly disillusioned from the Chruch, or have had to find their own truth back to their faith.

I've had that Bible-thumping weapon pointed at me many times, and not once has it made me want to go home and search out a closer walk with Him.

Dannyboy's post about his joy in being outside of the church is not what you want to be reading here. Dippy, these open and publicly embarrassing quarrels make us Christians look more like a bunch of immature and closed-minded people carrying Bibles and consulting them before we cross the street to see if it glorifies God.

I am not attempting to start any more openly hurtful posting. This is my last post in this thread unless the overall tone swings back up towards mature and informative. Dippy, you are more than welcome to PM me here if you still think I am misguided in my posting.
[/quote]
dont cry ok? you are not being openy hurtful, no.. you are just fine!

here is a statement from Jeffs website.. it seems others find him unloving, i guess im crazy..

'Why do I do this? *Because I have been accused of being unfair, blind, narrowminded, and unloving. * If that is what I am called here on the internet then fine. But when I stand before God, and I will, I do not want to have to explain why I choose to please others rather than stand faithful to His word.'

page found HERE

everyone is crazy, and Jeff has to put them right in their place it seems

that is if you are a christian who openly shares faith


----------



## SirOneEighty (Nov 20, 2004)

I know I said I wouldn't post again in this thread, but in PastorJeff's defense, that quote from the DivineTalk forum was taken out of context. In fact, the post that you quote supports your thinking on the 'final answer'. That Final Answer being God's word is final.

No where on that page did PastorJeff even seem to insinuate that 'everyone is crazy' and that it was his way or the high way. The post you took out of context was to be sure that all people posting on that site treated each other with respect and that the final answer rested on God's word, not any man's.


----------



## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

DannyBoy17 said:


> Its cool to be a Christian Puff...dont hate...
> 
> 
> 
> ...












the best are the healing bible thumpers. "YOU ARE CURED OF YOUR UNCURABLE DISEASE!!!" *SMACK*

"OMG!!! IM HEALED IM HEALED!!! PRAISE THE LORD PRASIE THE LOOOORD!!!"


----------



## schuman306 (Feb 20, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> O.K.
> 
> For the record...
> 
> ...


I understand and accept your stance, and respect it wholeheartedly!! wonderful point!

to me, we are both at fault.

And you are absolutely forgiven Jeff.. I dont care what it looks like to anyone in here, I find no fault in you, except for* my arrogant desire * for you to admit your approach was unloving lol
[/quote]

Hi everyone, I am new to the site, and came across this thread. If I may comment on the whole ordeal, I think that sharing your faith is very important. I don't see how dippy is shotguning God's word in anybody's face. I can tell you as a fellow Christian, that I get excited when I think about all the Lord has done for me, and those that surround me. I think also as Christians, we need to set a good example of our strength in Christ by not bickering back and forth. No offense to you either Jeff, but as a Pastor, you should be very cautios in the way you word some things. It seemed like you had gotten angry with Dippy on several occasions, and as your brother in Christ, you should not be defensive in the least. I once again would like to reiterate that I am not putting fault to anybody on here. I am just a fellow Christian speaking out to everybody. I love to share my faith, and I think that what dippy posted, as far as the video goes, is not throwing Jesus in anybody's face. It seems that, like myself, Dippy would just love to even see one person come to faith in Christ. I think things just got a little heated in here, and we should all just realize that it is all in the Lord's hands. We are but mere humans walking the earth, and doing our best, as Christians, to live just like Jesus. I hope that I didn't stir anything up too much in here, and I hope to see this all come to a joyous end, knowing that Jesus is Lord. God bless you all, and have a wonderful and blessed day.


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Can I have an IP check please?


----------



## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

I'm not exaggerating ....
Today I called my Sister about this thread, I found out that I'm going to hell for not accepting Jesus as my saviour as she and my brother have.


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

dracofish said:


> Its cool to be a Christian Puff...dont hate...
> 
> 
> 
> ...












the best are the healing bible thumpers. "YOU ARE CURED OF YOUR UNCURABLE DISEASE!!!" *SMACK*

"OMG!!! IM HEALED IM HEALED!!! PRAISE THE LORD PRASIE THE LOOOORD!!!"
[/quote]

LOL ya, most of that is totally fake..

But there is the real thing!


----------



## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Dippy -

I am going to hate myself for doing this, but I am going to make one more post here.

Dude, you need help. There is seriously something wrong with you. This is the internet and people are entitled to their opinions. I don't see eye to eye with you on this one, I don't now, and after your attitude and harrassing e-mails...I won't ever see eye to eye with you.

You use your Christianity as a battering ram, and you have been doing it with me. I have gotten FLOODS of e-mails from you, I have responded to each one, and you continually twist what I say into something negative...grow up!

I went so far as to send you my phone number and asked you to call me collect so we could work through this issue and maintian our friendship...yet you refused. So then what did you do? You sent me YOUR PASTORS PHONE NUMBER and even your personal e-mails back and fourth between the two of you - what is wrong with you!

Then you have your buddy sign on to step in for your defense...again, grow up!

I had alot of respect for you, and I always appreciated your comments and boldness to speak about your relationship with Christ even if I didn't agree with your method.

I am asking you one last time...stop e-mailing me, stop harrasing me, and leave me alone. I am not going to ask for your forgiveness as I have done nothing wrong, I am not going to agree with you no matter how much you try to brow beat me into it.

I did not have a problem with you before...but now I do.

Now grow up, thicken up your skin and drop it. If you can't handle an opinion that differs from yours, then get off the internet. Life is full of people who are NOT going to agree with you!


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

nice thread


----------



## Gut (Jan 9, 2006)

Xenon said:


> nice thread


hahahahaha sooooo insightful!!!


----------



## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Dippy -
> 
> I am going to hate myself for doing this, but I am going to make one more post here.
> 
> ...


My man - you know you've truly made it in this world once you get your own internet stalker


----------



## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

"Thank you to all who have nominated me! I accept

This is a wonderful site for any beginner OR advanced hobbyist for the keeping of Piranhas, and also many other types of fish.

I try to help people as much as I can with planted aquariums, and some other aspects of the hobby in general. I enjoy helping, it is really quite rewarding.

Although I have my beliefs, that some do not understand, and I am not afraid to let them be known.., *I do not discriminate against people who do not share my beliefs.*

congrats, and best wishes to all who were nominated"

This is Dippy Eggs acceptance speech to be on the advisory board. Anybody see any irony in this?


----------

