# plant information



## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

Can anybody give me a link to a good plants informations site ? I don't know anything about plants but i'm planning to have some in my new tank...


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

matc07098702 said:


> Can anybody give me a link to a good plants informations site ? I don't know anything about plants but i'm planning to have some in my new tank...
> [snapback]1111359[/snapback]​


You can always ask here.....!!!!!









what do you want to know?


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

lol a lot ...i posted a thread 1 or 2 weeks ago about that but i still have some questions : if i want some low light plants, how many wpg would i need ? Can i go to a hardware store to buy my light ? I know there are a lot of people that use power glo tubes but they are sooo expensive. I don't wanna use any type of co2 system too. Help me Husky Jim !!


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

The best solution with minimal cost regarding lighting is to buy Power Compact bulbs from a hardware store but take into concideration the kelvins of the PC tube.I personally use OSRAM DULUX L 55W 860 which is 6000Kelvin and it is great for plants.I usually combine it with Hagen's FLORA GLO (normal flouroscent-warm photosynthetic tube).
Each PC here costs me only 4,5 EURO!!!!

Now regarding your first question about Wattage i would recommend 0,6Watts per littre (2,226 watts per gallon) but it depends on the plant spieces you will choose and the dimensions of the tank!

cheers!


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

yeah i haven't decided yet what size tank i'm gonna get but it will probably be a 75-90g. I want plants that don't need a lot of light as a member told me because they are easier to take care of and they don't need a co2 system. What do you mean by a PC tube ? How many kelvins should i look for ? thanks !


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## spree_rider (Mar 20, 2004)

kelvins dont matter to plants it only really matters to what you want to look at in your tank, the colour will be different with different lights, generaly people want 5600- 10000k. but it doesnt really matter,\
for low light plants you need 1wpg -2wpg i would go closer to the 2wpg as this will keep your plants growing fast enough to fight algea.
and with low light plants you dont need co2 as they arnt limiting co2 because they dont grow fast enough to.


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

spree_rider said:


> *kelvins dont matter to plants it only really matters to what you want to look at in your tank, the colour will be different with different lights, generaly people want 5600- 10000k. but it doesnt really matter*
> [snapback]1112262[/snapback]​


Can you post some valid scientific data that says so?

From what you wrote,it seems that there is NO Photosynthetic Spectrum of Plants.Can you explain this also?


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

well jim what do you suggest me about those kelvins ? is 6000 to 10000 ok ? Again, what are those pc tubes ?


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

spree_rider said:


> kelvins dont matter to plants it only really matters to what you want to look at in your tank, the colour will be different with different lights, generaly people want 5600- 10000k. but it doesnt really matter,\
> for low light plants you need 1wpg -2wpg i would go closer to the 2wpg as this will keep your plants growing fast enough to fight algea.
> and with low light plants you dont need co2 as they arnt limiting co2 because they dont grow fast enough to.


Spree_rider,

I also would like to know where you base those words.

*1. More light to compete algae?*
Thinking that algae cannot grow and compete with higher plants when light energy is increased is total nonsense. You must remember that algae and blue bacteria (bluegreen algae) do use photosynthesis exactly like higher plants. Because the plant structure is much more simplier in algae, they actually can propagate faster.

The only thing bluegreen algae needs in a tank to explode (algae blooming) is phosphates. These algae do not even need nitrates although they benefit from it.
All the algea will only stop growing in your tank if phosphates are down. Polytrophic water will always introduce algae blooming.

*2. The effect of Kelvins?*
Kelvins describe light temperature:
- 2.700 K is the same as a traditional incandescent lamp (glow lamp)
- 6.500 K is the same as sunligth (bright dayligth), broad spectrum
- 7.000 K is the same as cloudy daylight
- 10.000 K is the temperature used in plant growth lamps (strong red-blue).
In aquarium there is a great difference using 6.500 K bulbs or 10.000 K bulbs. 
Plants (ang also algae) grow fastest with 6.500 K broad spectrum bulbs. This is no wonder because during the evolution of the plants mostly sunlight (6.500 K) has been present. If you want to use a 10.000 K bulb due to its color, it should be used only in addition to 6.500 bulbs.

Regards,


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## spree_rider (Mar 20, 2004)

i got my information on kelvins at school, ( im an electrician, and in school we learn alot about lighting and lighting setups,) kelvins only show the primary colour of the light, it has nothing to do with where in the spectrum the peaks are, there are thousands of combinations of peaks that will produce the same kelvin rating light but many of them have peaks in spectrums where the plants gain very little.
at one time i thought kelvins would matter than i had a discussion with tom barr about this and he informed me that he had set up 2 test tanks with different kelvin bulbs and there was no difference with plant growth and the only difference was in the colour of the light,
i havent tried this with an aquarium yet but i grow orchids under lights and i used cw bulbs and plant growing bulbs and the cw bulbs actually grew the plants better than they did under the special plant growth bulbs,
as long as you provide enoguh light and its not all in one spectrum especially green then you should have no problems, and colour should be of personal preference.

about the phoshphates growing algea i refer you to tom barr who just raised his phosphates to 105ppm and left it there for a month, and got no algea, he just kept his other parameters in check and increased his co2 and it worked out perfectly, 
as long as your plants grow fast and are healthy than you will not have algea problems, just dont let your plants be limited by something and they will grow fast and keep algea down.
James


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

spree_rider,

Thousands of combinations of getting the same Kelvin rating...
That is very theoretical... In practice the fluorescent bulbs only emit three different colors of light: red, green and blue. Of course these can be combined in a different ways.

But here as we speek of certain bulbs that can be bought, the possibilities are not so great. Usually you can buy:
- broad spectrum type (sunlight) with 6.000 - 6.500 K (this is white)
- cold white type (cloudy daylight) with 7.000 K (this is bueish white)
- warm white type (incandescent light) with 2.500 - 3.000 K (this is reddish white)
- plant growth type (Aquastar, Grolux etc.) with 10.000 K (this is reddish and blueish light)

You said you haven't experimented these with aquariums. Well keeping Orchids does not involve problems with algae. I have experimented different types of fluorescent lights more than 10 years - in aquariums.

BTW I am a biologist and can tell you that the most important reason for algae blooming (Anabaena etc. bluegreen algae) in nature (both maritime and freshwater ecosystems) is the phosphates. In aquarium you can have high phosphate concentration by feeding too much or by overstocking and neglecting water changes and so on...

In your example you don't describe very well the conditions.
It it possible in a well balanced (pH, NO3, PO4, Fe, Mg, Mn, CO2, light) tank water to raise phosphate levels for short periods without problems if and only if higher plants are in a very good condition and growing well with enough CO2 and that some trace element becomes a limiting factor wich prevents the algae growth.

This is merely a coincidence than a rule. You cannot measure the concentrations of different trace elements exactly. Bear in mind that concentrations can be very different in the tank water (leaf intake) and in the substrate (root intake) for instance.

One other important thing is to remember that "algae" is really not a uniform group with uniform properties. For example so called bluegreen algae (BGA) are not algae but bacteria which can use photosynthesis like plants. They (BGA) have a very much faster growth potential than plants do.

Regards,


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## TB2Blazer (Jul 21, 2005)

Oh look a pissing contest......


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

TB2Blazer said:


> Oh look a pissing contest......


TB2Blazer,

Well, not a contest, though.
Merely looking at the same thing from two different but important points of view.
See, usually nothing developes without a good discussion.

Regards,


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## spree_rider (Mar 20, 2004)

then how come HPS lamps work so well for growing plants even in aquariums, they are only 1920K or lower
professional growers use hps and mh in combination to grow out plants, I know HPS are used more for blooming fruiting but still grow plants like weeds.


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

TB2Blazer said:


> Oh look a pissing contest......
> [snapback]1131992[/snapback]​


It is a very informative post which all of us can benefit of it!If you have nothing valueble to add just don't post.

Nice replies guys!


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## malicious1 (Jul 4, 2005)

http://www.aquahobby.com/e_garden.php

^^
shows a good variety of plants with a short description.


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