# Help Needed



## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Gents,

lately one of the Dutch PF members lost several P.nattereris due to unknown cause.
He just posted he lost another one.

Waterparameters are always good on measurement, he does regular waterchanges 30-40% each week, and the water is at 25 degrees Celsius. As far as I know the guy, he really takes good care of them.

He sais the fish first becomes lighter coloured, nearly yellowish, though the ventral area remains red. That happens a week - 2 weeks before the fish dies. He remains that way till death. The fish starts eating badly, nearly stops eating but starts looking very swollen / fat.
The breathing gets faster.

He made some pics of the last mortality :


















































Does anyone have a clue what's going on ? There is a time span of several months between different mortalities, but they all die the same way. Is it a parasite of bacterial infection or something ?

Any help would be appreciated.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

they look over fed from the start. i think diet and the amount of food being fed may be a factor. color change could be a result of fish mood and does not always indicate a parasite or fungus. I would post specific water parameter numbers because always good could mean anything. also how old are the fish/size. i know RB had some fatties that killed over a lil early in life some think it may of been a result of diet and over feeding. this situation resembles that situation from the looks of it.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Those are pics three months before the first mortality.

The fish that died this morning was 22cm, the rest is smaller. They are 2 and a half years old if I'm not mistaken. They are not real fat, but swollen up like described. Like dropsy disease.

His present parameters he did not post yet, the parameters on the first mortality (november 2009) were
PH = 6.4
GH = 6
KH = 4
No2 = +/- 0,001
No3 = 30 mg/l 
Temp 25 C


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

should only be reading nitrates. having any readings of nitrites or ammonia is a sign of a issue. even if the reading is low. i hope someone else has more to add. im kind of out of ideas for now. but the test should cover ammonia nitrites and nitrates. ammonia being 0 as well as nitrites being 0. nitrates are more subjective but 30 is ok.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

AS fan said:


> should only be reading nitrates. having any readings of nitrites or ammonia is a sign of a issue. even if the reading is low. i hope someone else has more to add. im kind of out of ideas for now. but the test should cover ammonia nitrites and nitrates. ammonia being 0 as well as nitrites being 0. nitrates are more subjective but 30 is ok.


I asked him for recent parameters already, but he's out to work I guess. I will be posting them as soon as he does.
Thanx for the thoughts so far


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Update : just concluded that the first mortality happaned 10 days after introducing an Erythrinus erythrinus.
Probably that one had some kind of parasite ?


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## Soul Assassin (Nov 21, 2006)

Dont know if you are aware of jamesgt's post, it looks kind of the same...somewhat...

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=190515

GL to your friend


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Soul Assassin said:


> Dont know if you are aware of jamesgt's post, it looks kind of the same...somewhat...
> 
> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=190515
> 
> GL to your friend


I had not read that one yet. Thanx a lot !


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Same here. Four my red bellies died in a time span of 6 weeks. Could be internal parasites, and they showed the same symptoms.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

jamezgt said:


> Same here. Four my red bellies died in a time span of 6 weeks. Could be internal parasites, and they showed the same symptoms.


Yes I read your topic also.
Seems like a parasite indeed, hope a good treatment will work out fine for you.
The guy I wrote about will try some medicinal cure and probably a restart of his aquarium, so I hope his remaining piranhas will survive.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

prazipro i think should do the job. no need to reset the tank just treat for the parasites.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

AS fan said:


> prazipro i think should do the job. no need to reset the tank just treat for the parasites.


That might do it, without a restart.
However I don't know what I would do myself. After being confronted with an agressive, lethal parasite like this I probably would take drastic measures in a final hope to save the remaining fishes... 
I don't think I would take any other risk.

But I'll post your opinion in the Dutch topic, thanks for the input


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

my pleasure. i just know being too aggressive will result in additional stress to the fish which would end up bad since they are already week from a parasite. also leaves the chance to make too many mistakes. i sometimes forget to add prime and it bites me in the a$$ sometimes. simple is best.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Well he made up his mind... he collected a quarantaine tank for the treatment and will restart the original tank. In the meantime he will use the opportunity to cut out the internal filter of it, to replace it with a second external one.
So I'll wait and hear what will happen









Thanks for the tips and input all


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

good luck to your friend


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