# Help! i can see bone!



## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

I was going to move out my pleco out of the treatment tank today and he freaked out, he has been wearing a bit on his nose bumping into the glass and sliding against it all the time, and now he tried to make a run and really busted up the tip of his nose, hes bleeding a bit and i can see bone exposed on his nose, HELP! what should i do! i dont want him to die or get an infection again


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

just leave him in the hospital tank. Some salt and melefix and a few days he should be golden again.


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

You'll also want to make sure the hospital tank is kept bare. You don't want any decor in there or anything for it to run into and make it worse


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

problem is he got this injury when being moved back to the main tank. his nerves are totally screwed, slightest bump or suddeb move makes him freak out much less trying to catch him again.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

well.. your options are pretty limited. either leave him be and hope no other fish pick on him because of the injury. Or get him out and let him heal on his own.

All depends on how you feel about the situation. what kinda fish is he being kept with?


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

BlackSunshine said:


> well.. your options are pretty limited. either leave him be and hope no other fish pick on him because of the injury. Or get him out and let him heal on his own.
> 
> All depends on how you feel about the situation. what kinda fish is he being kept with?


a fully grown oscar, wich has always seem to beend best buddy with him. actually the oscar was pretty down in the dumps and sulking after i had to take out the plecos for treatment.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Ok i got a pic of his wound, its pretty big


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Well. Just keep an eye on him. If the oscar decides to start picking at him get him outta there. if not then just salt and mele treat that tank. the salt isn't goin to hurt the oscar. infact he may also benifit from it.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

how much salt? tanks a little more than 50 gal and i gave about 10 tablespoons, but im not quite shure its enough salt is it? im also a bit concerned since i hear plecos are also extra sensetive to salt.


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

Alexraptor said:


> how much salt? tanks a little more than 50 gal and i gave about 10 tablespoons, but im not quite shure its enough salt is it? im also a bit concerned since i hear plecos are also extra sensetive to salt.


I would say half of what the box says.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

thats enough salt. don't add anymore. that wound dosen't look fatal either just wanna stay on top of the water quality in that tank.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

He will be fine. I would add 5 tablespoons of salt and do frequent water changes...only replacing the amount of salt you remove with a water change.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

ok thanks, having some probs thou, i executed a 80-90% water change in the main tank a couple of day ago(while the pleco was in treatment tank) and it seems to be having problems clearing up properly, a bit hazy. im running regular filter pads(just cleaned them again today to be shure), ceramic rings and a fresh batch of active carbon.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Alexraptor said:


> ok thanks, having some probs thou, i executed a 80-90% water change in the main tank a couple of day ago(while the pleco was in treatment tank) and it seems to be having problems clearing up properly, a bit hazy. im running regular filter pads(just cleaned them again today to be shure), ceramic rings and a fresh batch of active carbon.


Sounds like a mini cycle to me-


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Bad? will it be harmfull? Death?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree..probably a mini cycle. Shouldnt be that bad.


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## Aaronic (Apr 22, 2005)

Alexraptor said:


> how much salt? tanks a little more than 50 gal and i gave about 10 tablespoons, but im not quite shure its enough salt is it? im also a bit concerned since i hear plecos are also extra sensetive to salt.


When I had my caribes with the white parasites, I was dosing rediculous amounts of salt with a pleco in the tank.... Didn't seem to bother him at all. I was putting about 2 full cups of 99.9% pure salt in a 67g tank.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

ok im a bit concerned again, hes swimming about fairly normally but hes been rubbing his nose against the glass and bumping it lightly and its bleeding a bit again, will this activity prevent it from healing? is there anything i can do?


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## watermonst3rs (Feb 15, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> He will be fine. I would add 5 tablespoons of salt and do frequent water changes...only replacing the amount of salt you remove with a water change.


You guys (esp mods) on the site really should invest in a TDS meter. I only say this cause I see incorrect advice given on salinity. Check Segrest Farms for a TDS meter it comes with a chart for salinity for all fresh water fish, it comes out to around 3 round tablespoons per 5 gallons. So 30 or so round tablespoons for 55 gallons for NORMAL conditions, bump that up higher for injury/disease treatments. Perfectly fine with all meds also.

Aaronic seems more on track with salinity, better to over do it than under.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

further complications have arisen, my oscar is picking a bit at my pleco, not the wound and not constantly but now and then taking a loos nibble at his side(wich he has done in the past), im in a very difficult position, moving the pleco again is really out of the question, moving the oscar would be hard to since he is an adult and will make a mess of things, and the fussing around would cause the pleco to totally freak out and have him hurt himself further.... im at a loss of what to do here


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## pirahnabreeder01 (Oct 4, 2004)

man just dont worry treat the tank like the box says put some mela fix in thier and dont sweat it its not a fatal wound it may take a while to heal but he wont die


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

watermonst3rs said:


> You guys (esp mods) on the site really should invest in a TDS meter. I only say this cause I see incorrect advice given on salinity. Check Segrest Farms for a TDS meter it comes with a chart for salinity for all fresh water fish, it comes out to around 3 round tablespoons per 5 gallons. So 30 or so round tablespoons for 55 gallons for NORMAL conditions, bump that up higher for injury/disease treatments. Perfectly fine with all meds also.
> 
> Aaronic seems more on track with salinity, better to over do it than under.


I dont agree with having salt in the tank at all times unless the fish is brackish...and I dont think this injury warrants a full medicating dose of salt. I know when I have has small open wounds or a fungus..I have had great results with a less then medicating dose of salt. Combined the fact that he isnt actually treating a parasite or known disease, he isnt using a hospital tank, he has live plants, and plecos are a catfish that (according to my limited understanding) can have issues with high doses of salt...I would say that a small amount to help with a secondary infection would be warranted.

In the words of DonH:


> *There are many "Rule of Thumb" guidelines for how much salt to add. Either, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, 1 tbsp/10 gallons, etc... If this has worked for you in the past, fine.* I have always dosed my tanks at 0.3% (3 tsp/gallon) when needed, which is considerably higher than many suggest. Only exception to this rule is for nitrite poisoning where a teaspoon of salt will treat over 300 gallons of water. Many believe that the constant use of salt in low dosages is the reason why we are having problems with salt resistant parasites. And as a result, some parasitic infestations need to double the dosage to 0.6% to see any significant improvement.





> One final note, livebearers and cichlids will tolerate much higher levels of salt than many other freshwater fishes such as characins (tetras), loaches, and *catfishes*. So this practice is not recommended for all species.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

So much salt being used in the aquarium.

Go with DonH recommendations, which is somewhat high (and he states so). My recommendations for Amazonian freshwater fish has been 1 teaspoon per 10g. This is desolved first before adding. Do not use salt if you are using meds. Majority of meds carry salt in them anyway as part of the ingredient. So be careful to read the label first.

Small amounts of salt can also damage the chlorophyll in plants, so if you use live plants consider carefully if you use salt treatment.

For the record, I rarely use salt. Only if I don't have the necessary medications (Melafix, etc.).


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

tank is med free, i had to take out my oscar temporarily because he was stressing out my pleco, hes now back to eating normally and i think the wound is starting to heal. just hope its good enough to let back the oscar soon as he is currently in a tiny 10 gallon tank and not too happy with it


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

hopefully ur oscar doesnt stress and die a 10 galllon tank id just watch him


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sounds like the oscar might have been the cause of him banging on the tank in the first place.


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## watermonst3rs (Feb 15, 2004)

> One final note, livebearers and cichlids will tolerate much higher levels of salt than many other freshwater fishes such as characins (tetras), loaches, and catfishes. So this practice is not recommended for all species.


Absolutely incorrect about Characins and Cichlids, Characins require about 3.0-3.5% salinity compared to Africans Cichlids being around 2.0-2.5%. S/A 2.5-3.0%. Also 4.0% is no where near brackish. 20-30% is saltwater, 10.0 is near brackish.

Frank I don't doubt your knowledge but dumping pre-dissolved salt into the tank will spike salinity almost instantly, on the other hand just dropping salt directly into the tank lets the salinity gradually rise. Gotta trust me some what it's my living. However everyone is entitled to treat and use as needed, but digital meters are on point.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

actually no, the story goes back to when i found both my plecos upside down on their backs, instant treatment with meds, infection, one died, the eldest recovered, when i was going to move him back into the main tank from the 10g treatment tank he totally freaked out and busted up his nose.

so the problem goes back to pleco agressivness i beleive as ive read old specimens can become fiercly territorial.


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## watermonst3rs (Feb 15, 2004)

plecs are kind of weird, they're calm until they are messed with and will literally freak out, I've seen them freak to the point where they freeze up and just die right there (esp fancy plecs). We always have large plecs 15"+ die for no reason. They jump out often also.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

watermonst3rs said:


> Frank I don't doubt your knowledge but *dumping pre-dissolved salt into the tank will spike salinity almost instantly, on the other hand just dropping salt directly into the tank lets the salinity gradually rise.* Gotta trust me some what it's my living. However everyone is entitled to treat and use as needed, but digital meters are on point.


That makes a lot of sense







I always wondered why people were so insistent about dissolving salt before putting it in tank...it would make a lot more sense to let the salinity rise gradually.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

yeah I usually just toss the salt into an area where I know the fish arn't hanging out. for my 75 its the overflow. for my nano its in the HOB that I use for waterflow. the issue with dropping rocks of salt is so that it dosen't land directly on a fish and burn its slime coat. 
Grouping all these type of fish Characins, cichlids, tetras etc etc is obviously not good practice in this case since these type of fish come from different ares in the world. so one must takes each by its locality. African Characins are just as diffrent from their amazonian cousens as the SA cichlids are from the african lake ones. 
This also goes for their recommended salinity. 
So to get techinical a "rule of thumb" as far as what is good in general for th fish in the tanks of people can only be taken with a grain of salt.. 
Oh snap what a pun.


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