# Breeding Caribas (First attempt)



## pharmandora

I am decreasing water level and increasing Gh, Kh and temperature, water level is 50 cm
1st day pH 6.1, Kh2, Gh 4 and 27 santigrat celcius, filters working



















8th day pH 6.9, Kh 4, Gh 12 and 30 santigrat celcius, filters working, water level is 23 cm


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## pharmandora




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## Murphy18

Lookin pretty positive to me!!

Good luck with it


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## badforthesport

good luck.

Why is your water level so low?


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## primetime3wise

looks like you did your homework. i wish you all the success in the world.

i don't think the vid is breeding behavior, but a territorial fight. if one of the males wanted to build a nest he would be chasing the other ones out of his area, vigorously. also, their bodies will become almost perpendicular to the ground. looks like the tank might be kinda small for your purposes. it might still happen, but, if you think you might have a pair, you might wanna remove the extra ones from the tank. however, that in itself might be hard to tell, who is male and who is female.

good luck.

i also wanted to add that if the were getting ready to breed, they would have become much darker, as well. so, i think that reinforces my observation that they are just fighting over territory.


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## primetime3wise

also, i think a "breeding area" might be a good idea. what you would do is take about 1/4 of the tank and section it off from the rest of the tank. make it heavily planted and with decor all around it. make sure the plants and decor are about 3/4 the height of the tank, so that when they want to go into or out of the breeding area, they have to swim upwards and then out. with your tank an area of like 12"x18" or 18"x18" would suffice.

this in itself is probably not mandatory, but it still might help persuade the alpha male to take the breeding area over, and thus help incline him to breed.

awesome work on the simulation of the wet/dry seasons!


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## Dawgz

turn the filters off for good. Do water changes when its about to rain outside (the barametric pressure also effects the P's).

try it, and when u do the water change, make sure u are puting it thru ur filters, so it dispenses like dropplets shown in ur pictures.

btw, u might want to put a black garbage bag to cover the sides of the tank, Give them as much privacy as u can.


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## primetime3wise

sound advice. adjusting as many variables as possible *might* be what is needed to get them agitated enough to breed. however, i think its possible, at the same time, to maybe do too much. OP will have to see what works and have the diligence to try different things if they don't breed right away.


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## blbig50

Good Luck, are you breeding to sell, keep, or both?


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## pharmandora

Thanks everybody.

I will turn off filters on Wednesday. I have 9 caribas. I am trying wet/rainy season for 4 ones. If it works i will try it on big tank.

I set up a rain mechanism. I will add R/O water to tank in rainy season drop by drop, as well as rain!

I want to bred them to get award and be written my name to opefe!


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## pharmandora

10th day pH 7.1, Kh 4, Gh 12 and 31 santigrat celcius, filters off, water level is 19 cm, air stone is working


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## Murphy18

Do you only have the 2 caribe in there now?

WHat size tank is that?


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## pharmandora

There are four caribas. 100*50*50h (cm).

And in other tank (200*60*60h cm) 5 caribas...


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## Murphy18

You should just keep the two you are attempting to breed alone, or are you just trying by luck?

if there has been two in particular which have been showing interest in each other then keep them alone.


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## nameless

Good luck on your trials Caner...
I eagerly waiting for the success.


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## pharmandora

11th day pH 7.3, Kh 4, Gh 13 and 31,5 santigrat celcius, filters off, water level is 17 cm, lightings is working half, airstone working










And the other tank, other caribas...


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## Dawgz

I think ull get best results if you cover ALL sides of the tank with something so the Caribe are not bothered by human interaction.

Also, you may want to Dim the lighting, not so much bright lights...

Also, get some Coconut Fiber...you can purchase these at a floral shop or a home decoration shop, what it is is just Coconut fiber...this makes a great spawning mat.

Place the mat on one side of the tank, with plants on the other half.

when u know the storm is comming, within 2 days, drain water before storm hits. (a little warmer water)
keep activity to the minimum. 12-14 hour lighting. temp around 85-86*

no filtration at all. everyday water change of 20%....

BTW, these are the directions ive gotten directly from Jim Smith









Jim Smith -> http://www.opefe.com/breeding_Pcariba.html


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## locust

Good luck, this may be of some help if you havent seen it
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breedi...%20seasons.html


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## pharmandora

15th day pH 7.2, Kh 5, Gh 13 and 31,0 santigrat celcius, filters off, water level is 16 cm, lightings is working half, airstone is working half

Thaks for your advices. I looked for amonia and saw that 1mg/L; added seachem prime and now ammonia is near zero. I closed around the tank. I found coconut fiber. But i couldn't find spawning moss.

Thanks everybody.


















The window is for looking temperature...


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## primetime3wise

looks good. i REALLY hope it works out for you. we'll be anxiously awaiting your results when you start to fill the tank back up.

maybe i missed it, but are you going to simulate the dry season for 3 weeks? or longer than that?


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## cusccrstud21

looks great man! good luck on it and continue to keep us posted!


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## ILLdose13

i'll give this a try if you're successful at breeding


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## dangmatic

hope they breed.


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## pharmandora

Thanks. U are right. I will add first rain drop in this Sunday. Please read the program and give me advice..

21th day: Turn sun light flos and open only Philips Aquarelle, add %20 (About 15 liters) Reverse Osmosis water by raining. 
22th day: Add 15 liters cold reverse osmosis water
23th day: Add 15 liters mixed water (%75 RO/%25 conditioned tap water)

Must i remove catapappa leaves and other plants away from the tank?


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## Dawgz

I would try to stay away from chemicals as much as possible (except of course for the conditioner (to remove chlorine)).


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## pharmandora

Dawgz said:


> I would try to stay away from chemicals as much as possible (except of course for the conditioner (to remove chlorine)).


What do u advice to decrease amonia. Could i change water?


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## Dawgz

^ U could look into a slow drip method that will take out old water and put in new, slowly (with out disturbing the water's surface tension).

But, you are re-creating rainfall every now and then, so i dont think you would need to be worried about the ammonia too much, are you feeding them alot? what is your feeding schedule like?


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## primetime3wise

Ephimetheus said:


> Thanks. U are right. I will add first rain drop in this Sunday. Please read the program and give me advice..
> 
> 21th day: Turn sun light flos and open only Philips Aquarelle, add %20 (About 15 liters) Reverse Osmosis water by raining.
> 22th day: Add 15 liters cold reverse osmosis water
> 23th day: Add 15 liters mixed water (%75 RO/%25 conditioned tap water)
> 
> Must i remove catapappa leaves and other plants away from the tank?


that's a tough question. i think you are asking if removing these plants will affect ph? which is what you want?

good to see someone making a serious attempt at breeding caribe and not just talking about it. keep up the great work, looks like you are being very diligent and i hope it pays off.


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## cusccrstud21

primetime3wise said:


> Thanks. U are right. I will add first rain drop in this Sunday. Please read the program and give me advice..
> 
> 21th day: Turn sun light flos and open only Philips Aquarelle, add %20 (About 15 liters) Reverse Osmosis water by raining.
> 22th day: Add 15 liters cold reverse osmosis water
> 23th day: Add 15 liters mixed water (%75 RO/%25 conditioned tap water)
> 
> Must i remove catapappa leaves and other plants away from the tank?


that's a tough question. i think you are asking if removing these plants will affect ph? which is what you want?

good to see someone making a serious attempt at breeding caribe and not just talking about it. keep up the great work, looks like you are being very diligent and i hope it pays off.
[/quote]

Very true, it makes me want to go out and try my hand at getting some baby caribe...I love the pic updates, keep 'em coming!!


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## pharmandora

Dawgz said:


> Thanks. U are right. I will add first rain drop in this Sunday. Please read the program and give me advice..
> 
> 21th day: Turn sun light flos and open only Philips Aquarelle, add %20 (About 15 liters) Reverse Osmosis water by raining.
> 22th day: Add 15 liters cold reverse osmosis water
> 23th day: Add 15 liters mixed water (%75 RO/%25 conditioned tap water)
> 
> Must i remove catapappa leaves and other plants away from the tank?


that's a tough question. i think you are asking if removing these plants will affect ph? which is what you want?

good to see someone making a serious attempt at breeding caribe and not just talking about it. keep up the great work, looks like you are being very diligent and i hope it pays off.
[/quote]

Thak u very, very much. I asked for effect on the pH. (Execuse me, my english is not well) . U are right; i am vey serious! It will be an hanour for me!


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## selman

Go Ephimetheus








Great work and the last great pics.
Im looking forward to see your babies...


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## pharmandora

İngilizcem iyi olmadığından bu nıoktadan itibaren Barış Abi bana yardımcı olacak; teşekkür ederim tekrar.

Aslında birkaç sorunum var ve çözüm önerilerinize ihtiyacım var;

1) Tankta akıntı olmadığı için ısıtıcıdan yeterli verimi alamıyorum. Bu sorunu nasıl çözebilirim?
2) Balıkları beslemiyorum ancak sıcaklığın etkisi ile bitkiler çürüdüğü için amonyak yükseliyor. Sanırım hava motorunu da son birkaç gün kapatmam gerekli, amonyak sıkıntı oluşturmaz mı?
3) Bütün kılavuzlar tankın bir tarafının bitkili olmasından bahsediyor. Tankın bir yanına bitki ekerken balıklar strese girmez mi?

Yanıtlarınız için şimdiden teşekkür ederim.


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## nameless

Ephimetheus said:


> İngilizcem iyi olmadığından bu nıoktadan itibaren Barış Abi bana yardımcı olacak; teşekkür ederim tekrar.
> 
> Aslında birkaç sorunum var ve çözüm önerilerinize ihtiyacım var;
> 
> 1) Tankta akıntı olmadığı için ısıtıcıdan yeterli verimi alamıyorum. Bu sorunu nasıl çözebilirim?
> 2) Balıkları beslemiyorum ancak sıcaklığın etkisi ile bitkiler çürüdüğü için amonyak yükseliyor. Sanırım hava motorunu da son birkaç gün kapatmam gerekli, amonyak sıkıntı oluşturmaz mı?
> 3) Bütün kılavuzlar tankın bir tarafının bitkili olmasından bahsediyor. Tankın bir yanına bitki ekerken balıklar strese girmez mi?
> 
> Yanıtlarınız için şimdiden teşekkür ederim.


*Translation:*

*Since my english is not perfect, from this point on my firend Baris will help me. Thank you.

Actually i got a couple of problems and i need your suggestions and advices:

1) I cannot get enough effciency from my heater, because there is no flow in the tank. How can i solve this?
2) I donot feed them at the moment, however due to the increase in the water temperature, plants are becoming corrupted and this leads to an increase in amonia. I guess I will also shut down the air pump in a couple of days. Does the increase in amonia level not create a problem?
3)All the guidelines are mentioning about highly planting one side of the tank. I guess fish can be stressed while planting, don't they?

Thank you for your answers already.*


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## primetime3wise

as far as the plants decaying and increased ammonia, i think both are fine, and maybe even beneficial in the short run. i don't see a short term increase in ammonia being a problem, just don't let it get out of hand. i believe that in the dry season in nature, the same thing happens to plants as their is less water and oxygen and higher water temps. all the decaying vegetation also affects the ph of the rivers.

i don't know if that would be wise to shut down the air pumps with that little of water in the tank. i think you need at least a little surface agitation for the fish. oxygen levels may drop off significantly during the dry season in nature, but you are only using a med sized tank with little water in it, as it is.

you might want to pm the very knowledgeable about this subject, esp. Jim Smith whom dawgs talked about, or frank/hastatus. most of the breeders here have only bred rbp, two of us bred golds, but even that was nothing like you are undertaking. your whole process is much more methodical and detailed.


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## pharmandora

How can i contact with Jim Smith?


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## TurboVtec93

This is looking awesome! I hope you all the best and I am enjoying all of the updates!!!


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## primetime3wise

Ephimetheus said:


> How can i contact with Jim Smith?


from my research it looks like he was using the name "wallago2111", here. but i don't think he has been on here in quite a while after looking at his profile.

perhaps frank, "hastatus" has a contact for him.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Murphy18 said:


> You should just keep the two you are attempting to breed alone, or are you just trying by luck?
> 
> if there has been two in particular which have been showing interest in each other then keep them alone.


 Just wondering, if he kept just two together, how would you pick a male and female out of a group of fish that are not sexually dimporphic ? Just becasue they are together, that doesnt mean its a pair. If you leave them in the tank, they still ahve a change of beedign with others around. Putting them in a new tank could desturmb them and turn them off breeding for a while.


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## cusccrstud21

any update on this?


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## pharmandora

Deep impact...
















I have started to add RO %20 of tank since 2 days. But mey thermometer (Sera) broken and it smells like gasoline. I had to %50 water change and i did it...

Please help me! is it problem a broken thermometer. (Sera glass thermomether)


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## primetime3wise

don't really know for sure, but if mercury went into the tank that can't be good.


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## cusccrstud21

primetime3wise said:


> don't really know for sure, but if mercury went into the tank that can't be good.


I was thinking the same thing...especially since fish can absorb things in the water so well...


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## pharmandora

I know mercury; bu it doesn't contain mercury. A liquid crystal in red color and swims on the surface of water.


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## cusccrstud21

Ephimetheus said:


> I know mercury; bu it doesn't contain mercury. A liquid crystal in red color and swims on the surface of water.


I don't know what that substance is but I do know what you're referring to. Hopefully somebody here will no what it is because once those red beads can be identified then it will be a lot easier to diagnose the potential problem and/or a course of action. I really hope this works out for you!


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## pharmandora




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## pharmandora

23th day;

Kh:2, Gh: 6, pH: 6,33, 27 santigrat celcius, external filter is working half with peat, water level is 28 cm.


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## primetime3wise

how big are these caribe? they look like they might not be old enough to breed.


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## pharmandora

8.5, 8, 6.5 and 6 inches...


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## pharmandora

24th day;

Kh:2, Gh: 5, pH: 6.25 , 27 santigrat celcius, external filter is working half with peat, water level is 37 cm and i added some black sand...


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## Piranha Madness

Looking Good








I'm in the process of breeding 4 Cariba's also....Just put them in a 135 gal. going to let them settle down for about a month and then "DRY SEASON"








Good Luck I think it will be History in the making if someone can breed Cariba's and show records of it







....!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bigshawn

This is great keep it up!!


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## Plowboy

Hey sweet post. Hope it works out for you.

About the thermometer incident, most thermometers use a type of alcohol instead of mercury. Theres still a chance it was mecury, but its a slim chance. If it was mercury it most likely would have stayed beaded together, and it definitely would have sank. If it was an alcohol thermometer the alcohol would have floated and given off the smell. I dont know what kind of alcohol they use though, methyl, methanol, ethanol?

I doubt its going to be an issue since its such a small amount and the stuff isn't toxic.

Keep up the good work and keep us updated.


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## locust

They are skittish tho, surely they need to be left alone , surely changing the gravel isnt going help as far as allowing them the peace to be relaxed and confident enough to spawn?
Arent there only 2 of breeding size?


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## dschoter05

Its been a couple days since we have heard from you. Just wondering ifyou have had any luck yet????


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## Dawgz

OMG, they are going to breed, Look how Dark they got!


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## Trigga

Dawgz said:


> OMG, they are going to breed, Look how Dark they got!


I know i thought the same thing when i saw that pic


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## philbert

Dawgz said:


> OMG, they are going to breed, Look how Dark they got!


he just put in black sand. i had to remove on of my caribe from my shoal due to him getting his a$$ kicked real bad and i put him in a tank with black gravel and he turned real dark with in a day or so. so i am not sure that those are breeding colors.


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## primetime3wise

i agree in that i think its the result of the dark sand. even before my golds ever bred, they would darken really up with my black gravel, almost to the point they didn't look much like a gold mac/spilo.


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## pharmandora

There are some swellings within the red circled area. Can they be an indicator of a sickness? What are your suggestions?


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## nameless

Turkish translations are written belowthe messages.



Piranha Madness said:


> i agree in that i think its the result of the dark sand. even before my golds ever bred, they would darken really up with my black gravel, almost to the point they didn't look much like a gold mac/spilo.


Renklerinin koyulaşmasının siyah kumun bir sonucu olduğu konusuna ben de katılıyorum. Üremelerinden daha önceleri benim mac.larım da siyah kum olan tankta çok koyu renk almışlardı, hatta artık atın renkli bir mac/spiloya bile fazla benzemiyorlardı.


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## cusccrstud21

any update on this?


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## peanutpiranha

interesting as i am (i think) very close to breeding mine at the moment
with 4 cariba from 12.5 inch to 8.5 inch and two have been acting very unusual than normal
and the big 12.5 incher has been darkening up and pairing up with one other in a breeding area i setup
since i've nearly inished simulating dry/wet season etc 
i've gone all out in every aspect i can think of apart from slacking off from the routine ive set to breed them (due to drinking beer in the sun!)

i'd like to know whats happened with his after his thermometer accident








finished


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## Piro

peanutpiranha said:


> interesting as i am (i think) very close to breeding mine at the moment
> with 4 cariba from 12.5 inch to 8.5 inch and two have been acting very unusual than normal
> and the big 12.5 incher has been darkening up and pairing up with one other in a breeding area i setup
> since i've nearly inished simulating dry/wet season etc
> i've gone all out in every aspect i can think of apart from slacking off from the routine ive set to breed them (due to drinking beer in the sun!)
> 
> i'd like to know whats happened with his after his thermometer accident
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finished










have you got some pics of your piranhas in breeding colours or some movies about their behaviour? 
I don't think his caribe will breed, because I think the thermometer isn't the biggest problem, but changing the gravel is.
good luck with your attempt!


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## peanutpiranha

took a few pics but nothing much but not worth doing any vids yet as from 
watching a vid you wouldnt see much as the tank is plastered in plants inside and out !
but it aint major breeding behaviour yet but as i breed reds i know what i am looking for
and one of the smaller has swelled up as if to have loads of eggs
but in my experience the smaller of a breeding pair of (reds) is usually the male
in my case it looks as if the 12.5 incher (the beast) is the male and the other one that pairs up is 
a 9 incher is probably a female with the egg swelling
not that this may make a difference but all of my breeding reds have always been a smaller male by about 2 inches 
(if im making any sense!)
im just thinking that the size of the male is daunting to the female as the male normally kicks
the sh*t out of the female if it is an agressive spawning (with reds)

im gonna keep pics of the present setup to myself for a while 
till i hope fully get em spawning
but IF i get em spawning the vids etc will go on a seperate thread

heres a pic of there tank just before i started planting it out and starting dry/wet season about 
6 months ago


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## Piro

nice lookin' fish! I hope your attempt will work out well. What is your tank size and what are the waterparameters?


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## primetime3wise

no updates from OP in a while?


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## pharmandora

Execuse me. I am very busy. New pictures and information coming soon!


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## Gigante Pirana

For those who want a more scientific info on external factors that affect in part ,breeding of caribes, this was just published in March of 2009. Google the tiltle and I hope your college or university will allow you to access the info.
Title is : Reproductive biology of freshwater fishes from the Venezuelan floodplains


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