# Nature Is Killing Off My Piranhas



## newtripoli

Ok so this is a continuation of my previous topic "piranha might be a goner" I had a piranha mysteriously just start swimming around spiratically in all directions almost as if in space with zero gravity, having no control of direction. He also showed heavy breathing signs in the gills and mouth constantly gasping for air. Next he developed a white film over his eyes, I thought this was due to him healing from an eye injury in the first place. Finally he just died, but it took several days almost a week for him to finally die, it was a very slow death.

So since then, I had 4 more piranha in the tank, another one was eaten in half to the point of death when I discovered the body. So there were 3. Then about a week later I discover another floating piranha. This one is just missing the tail, down to the nub. But he wasnt able to battle the whirl pool current and just free floated around the tank. So I put him in a different hospital tank. I put him in a 20 gal, that currently has convict cichlid fry, about the size of rice grains right now. I figured that would be fine since he wont bother eating the fry (too small). At first, he just sat in the bottom corner of the tank. I thought fine, his tail is gone. Over the next few days his tail began to heal, show sings of scabbing, and he was beginning to eat a bite or two of smelt I would throw in each day. Now about a week later, he has not eaten anything for a few days. I thought nothing of it. However yesterday he started the spiratic zero gravity swimming, his eye has a white patchy hazy film on it, and he is gasping for air. Swimming upside down and any other direction.

All the fry are fine. Only the piranha is exhibiting these symptoms. The other 2 piranha still left in the 75gal are fine and happy, and very active. They have built a nest and I am going to do a water change with cold water to get them to mate.

So any takers on the piranha sickness? weird? I think this one will die as well, he is sideways right now floating near the surface. He spontaneously mauls his jaw, and thrashes his body every 10 minutes or so. Its almost like HITH without the hole!


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## CLUSTER ONE

newtripoli said:


> Ok so this is a continuation of my previous topic "piranha might be a goner" I had a piranha mysteriously just start swimming around spiratically in all directions almost as if in space with zero gravity, swim bladder problem it sounds likehaving no control of direction. He also showed heavy breathing signs in the gills and mouth constantly gasping for air. Next he developed a white film over his eyes, I thought this was due to him healing from an eye injury in the first place. Finally he just died, but it took several days almost a week for him to finally die, it was a very slow death. you should be checking for nitrates, nitrites and ammonia
> 
> So since then, I had 4 more piranha in the tank, another one was eaten in half to the point of death when I discovered the body. So there were 3. Then about a week later I discover another floating piranha. This one is just missing the tail, down to the nub. But he wasnt able to battle the whirl pool current and just free floated around the tank. So I put him in a different hospital tank. I put him in a 20 gal, that currently has convict cichlid fry, about the size of rice grains right now. I figured that would be fine since he wont bother eating the fry (too small). At first, he just sat in the bottom corner of the tank. I thought fine, his tail is gone. Over the next few days his tail began to heal, show sings of scabbing, and he was beginning to eat a bite or two of smelt I would throw in each day. Now about a week later, he has not eaten anything for a few days. I thought nothing of it. However yesterday he started the spiratic zero gravity swimming, his eye has a white patchy hazy film on it, and he is gasping for air. Swimming upside down and any other direction.sounds liek another swim bladder problem
> 
> All the fry are fine. Only the piranha is exhibiting these symptoms. The other 2 piranha still left in the 75gal are fine and happy, and very active. They have built a nest and I am going to do a water change with cold water to get them to mate. if they have already built a nest you don't really need a water change. Breeding will explain the cannibilism as my pair picked some p tankmates off before breeding
> 
> So any takers on the piranha sickness? weird? I think this one will die as well, he is sideways right now floating near the surface. He spontaneously mauls his jaw, and thrashes his body every 10 minutes or so. Its almost like HITH without the hole!


Not really much you can do for swim bladder problems. What are you ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at?


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## newtripoli

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
10 nitrate

what are the chances of having 2 piranhas with swim bladder problems at 2 different times within one month? Also, both getting the swim bladder issue only after receiving an injury from battle?


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## CLUSTER ONE

newtripoli said:


> 0 ammonia
> 0 nitrite
> 10 nitrate
> 
> what are the chances of having 2 piranhas with swim bladder problems at 2 different times within one month? Also, both getting the swim bladder issue only after receiving an injury from battle?


ok i think I misunderstood if they were injured when they were swimming weird it was probably bacause of the injury. I though the ones swimming weird were in fine physical shape


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## newtripoli

Alright, let me explain this a little better. The injury had no effect on the fishes ability to maintain level in water. Like I said, the fish started to get BETTER, and EAT, and SWIM fine. Then all of a sudden, it started swimming like this, its almost as if something crawled inside its brain and rotted the fish from the inside out. The fish started acting "retarded" and would swim into everything, and Flare his jaw thrashing and chomping in mid air every now and then. First the sporadic movement, then slow deterioration of the skin cells starting with the eyes. Increased breathing to be more and more rapid over time (3-4 days).I don't think a swim bladder problem would have all these other things associated with it. Now today, he is almost dead at the top of the tank floating sideways covered in a white haze of decomposing skin still gasping for air. Something is killing the fish that is not "explainable". It is almost as if they lost the "will to live" same with the other piranha.

It has NOTHING I repeat, NOTHING to do with water chemistry. As much as you guys might think, NO, and NO just one more time. Because #1 i tested them, and test regularly. #2, he was living fine in the water for a while, #3 There are BABY FRY IN THE TANK! So young and little that the tiniest fluctuation in water chemistry would instantly wipe them off the map before a healthy adult piranha.

So my conclusion. Nature is killing my fish. IF you do not understand what I mean by that, it is a paranormal phenomenon that occurs naturally around the world. Where certain populations just die, and contract unknown diseases for no apparent reason. It happens to insects, birds, and mammals. Sudden death with NO scientific explanation.


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## CLUSTER ONE

newtripoli said:


> It has NOTHING I repeat, NOTHING to do with water chemistry. As much as you guys might think, NO, and NO just one more time. Because #1 i tested them, and test regularly. #2, he was living fine in the water for a while, #3 There are BABY FRY IN THE TANK! So young and little that the tiniest fluctuation in water chemistry would instantly wipe them off the map before a healthy adult piranha.


Fish or anything does not die for no reason. Just becasue you cannot explain it it doesnt mean there isn't something wrong... and probably something wrong with the water. Not nessisarily ammonia or the common things but possibly some household chemical got in the water, your water supply added something, a parisite... Phenomenon is just a word to describe what we cannot yet explain but it doesnt mean there is no explanation.

You also cannot compare two differnt fish especially differnt types. One fish may be hardier then another and having an injury could make the p abit mroe stressed then usual.


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## newtripoli

So your saying baby fry would not be harmed from the water and a piranha would? Also, he was fine in the water, I have had them in the water before. No new water from parasites added. I have to go, i'm late but things do DIE FOR NO REASON. I can show you proof of that as well. It's natures way of controlling things.

Ill argue with you guys all day. This site with "experts" is wayyyy to built on water chemistry. That is not the issue here


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## CLUSTER ONE

newtripoli said:


> So your saying baby fry would not be harmed from the water and a piranha would?In this case it seems that way as the p's are dying and the convict fry is not. Also, he was fine in the water, I have had them in the water before.Citys may change what is inthe water periodically. It probably isn't the cxase but I beleive thecable guy lost some p's when he didn't condition the water in addition to the city changeign the chlorine amount or something like that. No new water from parasites added.What? I have to go, i'm late but things do DIE FOR NO REASON. I can show you proof of that as well.Lets see proof then. Somethign unexplained is not "no reason" it is just not explained. Are you saying if i dosed your tank with a chemical p's are more sensitive to compared to other fish and they died it would be becasue of nature? Just becasue you may not have a test kit to detect that chemical that killed your p's does not mean nothing was wrong. You can mayby argue "nature" if they are 20 years old and old age could be a factor but im assumign they are farily young. Sometimes there may be somethign liek organ failure which coudl be considered nature but when more then one fish dies it sounds like something is wrong regarless of if you admit it or not. It's natures way of controlling things.
> 
> Ill argue with you guys all day. This site with "experts" is wayyyy to built on water chemistry. That is not the issue here


No body on this site is an expert but experience does tell us when a fish dies there are often some of the following present: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, chlorine, parisites, other chemicals, stress factors...

Last time you posted your fish here, they obviously looked sick and their tank looked rather dirty so right away I think it has something to do with water chemistry if you are saying it was not the injury. Not nessisarily the common thing considered water chemistry but encompassing anything in the water or in their enviroment. If somebody dies fro ma gas in the air there is a reason they died even if it is not obvious. You many not even have the ability to test for what killed/is killing them but it is stupid to say they are just magically dying despite being a socalled healthy.

Im not here to bash you for taking how you care for your fish but rather saying there is cause and effect.


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## Piranha-Freak101

X2 ^^^^ sorry kid cluster is 100% right on this


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## Dawind

Did you ever find out what the disease was? I have the exactly same signs. But ive lost 7 piranha with the next one about to pass. My water chemistry is fine, dont (0, 0, 15) know whats going on! Ive tried anti parasite meds... Maracyn 2 , Salts for 2 weeks, Anti fungals. I have no clue what to do. Soo how i know the fish is sick: Darting around the tank, floppoing out of the water, cannot control depth the first day or 2. By the 3rd days its extremely lethargic and barely moves. 4th day its gone. Everything mentioned in the first post sounds like what my guys have. Ive got a UV sterilizer on my tank too! Any help?

Thanks


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## Vince302

I also agree with CLUSTER ONE posts....

No one talk about what they feed to their fish ? , I lost a fish with exact same symptom , I would suggest you to describe ALL your entire set up , tank size, filter , light, temp ,everything , what you feed , what happened in the last 2-3 weeks(feeding scedule , waterchange, filter cleaning, etc)

picture could help , Cluster said it doesn't look "good" ?? ,that already sound suspect to me ...

maybe something you miss to tell?, also sometime we made a stupid moove but stay quiet on this and people trying to guess an answer miss this information , don't sayin your stupid! ,i made couple stupid moove first year









mine died 2-3 days after i fed him a dead goldfish found in my other tank for cycling.


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## Guest

I got the feeling your linking your fish dying to an Armageddon prophecy due to the deaths of fish and birds in the wildlife? Remember the big difference is scientist take and examin the fish and birds that have died in the wild, examining trying to find what the cause was. Just like all other organisms bacteria, paresites and viruses evolve and mutate in the wild. 
Your problem is more likely due to you feeding your fish something which was contaminated, with your fish being injured, they were stressed and this led to suppressed immune systems making them unable to deal with the foreign contaminant.
Your keeping fish to have a little piece of "artificial" nature, you don't have actual nature.


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## Dawind

135 Gal tank. The tank is running a Eheim 2217, AC 70, and a 40 gal wet/dry, UV sterilizer. Temp remains between 78-80. I have half the tank planted with light only on that side for a 10 hours period. I make my own fish food with usually a white fish and shrimp mix with hikari gold pellets and vitachem. I do a 50% water change every week. The last month I have been doing a 30% 3 times a week. This all started about 40 days ago. Ive had 11 rbp since 1 inch. They are all about 6 inches now and I loose one a week to this mysterious virus/bacteria. The only problem ive ever had with the tank is my nitrate levels being very high at certain times (due to the wet/dry) I just bought a nitrate reducer too (dont think ill have fish by the time i get bacteria working). Other then that ive never had a serious problem. The only other thing i introduced into the tank was snails and clams a few months back. I guess its very possible that they might of had a parasite. I took them out over the tank well over 2 months ago. Hope you can see in the picture the cloudy white fungus looking thing around the eyes and mouth. Fish also breaths very rapidly. Theres plenty of o2 in the tank. All of the fish ( the 4 i have left) havent been eating. Soo i know there all infected, they just go downhill at separate times. Ooo and sometimes the PH is a bit acidic but I always correct it. The wibble wobble swimming makes me thing its a swim bladder infection.


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## Guest

Looks like a bad attack of Saprolegnia. They have probably caught a parasitic or bacterial infection which has allowed the Saprolegnia to take hold.
Hopefully someone with an experience of this will chime in as I've never had to deal with a problem as serious as this.


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## FEEFA

If that dirty glass is a sign of how well the tank is maintained then something you are or not doing is def the problem.

You mentioned you adjust the ph, how exactly are you doing that and how much is it fluctuating?

And to the op, nature is not the culprit, I guarentee that its something that you are or not doing.

List each and every chemical that you both add to your tanks aswell as waterchange and gravel wash regiment?
Were your tanks cycled before the fish were added? How long have they been running? Do you give them feeders?
The spikes that occur during a cycle are enough to cause long term damage that may not show itself right away.

Do you test before or after the waterchange? Its best to test before and after and then again a couple days later when you are having problems. Whens the last time you tested?

Also why are you both leaving the fish to suffer only to finally die after 4days? Since you obviously cant figure out the problem and therefore will not be treating the fish then why not put it/them down?


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## Piranha-Freak101

x2^


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## pirana666

a question: can it be,that when you always have the UV steriliZer on... that the fish are TO wel protected against diseases?

and then when you one s forget... they get ill? or fast ..to fungus? cuase they didnt buildt a good defence system?..

sorry for my crappy english... it not my mothers language....


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## Dawind

The glass has salt sediment on it from trying to treat them via salt method pinned in this section. My tank is always free of debris and always crystal clear. The PH at certain times has changed roughly from 6.8 to 6.4. I have only had to readjust 3 or 4 times. And I dont know if those questions were directed at me but. I do a 50% water change once a week. (or twice a week 30 and 30)(cleaning half the gravel at a time) I add prime and flourish excel during each water change. Half of my tank is planted and lit for 10-12 hours a day. Tank has been running since Sept and was 100% cycled before introducing the fish. The Nitrate spikes have happened around 4 times, since then ive got my wet.dry on a good cleaning regiment where it doesn't go nitrate crazy. I test the water once a week before water changes.

I dont let my fish suffer. The first few died in the tank, but during that time I was treating them with medications in hope that they would survive, and had no idea that this would kill them so quickly. Most of my fish i euthanized myself. Yes I obviously cant figure out the problem thats why im posting, but its not soo obvious that im not doing anything. I dont understand your connection between since i dont know whats happening then i cant do anything? I plan on continuing to treat the fish with different medications .... If anyone has any suggestions it would be helpful. Please no captain hindsights, this is my first time with piranha I know ive made mistakes.

Pirana666 ... I guess that a possibility, if never exposed to any antigens the fish may have never produced any antibodies for anything. But I still think its a virus that got transmitted via snail. Thanks for theory.

O and sorry for stealing your thread newtripoli


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## pirana666

you could, cut open a dead specie and look with microscope... for parasite or so.. i ve heard about that option before....


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## ordo

Did he make it?? I would venture a guess of too much salt or other treatment.... I have never seen my glass go cloudy from salt treatment. Btw what kind of salt did you use? Also, I am a firm believer in less chemicals in the tank. Trying to buffer PH and over maintaining every level can be just as deadly. Just because you aren't detecting ammonia, nitrites, nitrates doesn't mean there isnt a lethal dose built up of another chem. It sounds like you have been heavily dosing the tank for quiet awhile..... maybe do 30% water changes daily for the next week or two and see how things progress. Cut back on feeding all together. Those Ps are big enough to go a week at least without food.


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## FEEFA

ordo said:


> Did he make it?? I would venture a guess of too much salt or other treatment.... I have never seen my glass go cloudy from salt treatment. Btw what kind of salt did you use? Also, I am a firm believer in less chemicals in the tank. Trying to buffer PH and over maintaining every level can be just as deadly. Just because you aren't detecting ammonia, nitrites, nitrates doesn't mean there isnt a lethal dose built up of another chem. It sounds like you have been heavily dosing the tank for quiet awhile..... maybe do 30% water changes daily for the next week or two and see how things progress. Cut back on feeding all together. Those Ps are big enough to go a week at least without food.


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