# Sand, I'm not liking it



## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

So after seeing so many members converting to sand I decided to get some pool filter sand.

At first I absolutely loved the look but now not so much.
The problem is that the white sand is always dirty, the debris on the surface is easy enough to deal with but the sand is discolored. I dont know if its algea building on the surface but it looks horrible after a couple days after cleaning.

Has anyone else experienced the same problem with their sand?
I was thinking of adding a top layer of gravel to the sand but am woried that the gravel will end up at the bottom of the tank.

Should I add it or remove all the sand and start over with just gravel?

I think I would like the look of sand mixed with gravel but is there a downside to it?
My tank always looks spotless but now it looks like sh*t so I'm def doing something soon.


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## skylute3 (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, can't tell ya nething other then my exp with sand...I bought
My sand from home depot, quik rite I think medium sand....
Its white, and 3 bucks for 50 lbs....I love it, 10xs better then gravel
Bc the crap for me lays on top, and very ez cleaning....but the odd color
In the sand, I had a discolorization maybe after a yr, but very very tiny, and i deep 
Clean my tanks every 4 monthes, stir it all up n stuff....either way sand over gravel imo,
Not sure bout it being more beneficial since I heard the gravel gives more surface area for bacteria
But I dig sand. Maybe its bc the kind u got...iunno try the home depot stuff.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

if you're having problems with algae, just cut your lighting back a bit... i would give it a bit more time before you go through the hassle of swapping it out again. adding gravel would work if you don't like the look of it... i've seen plenty of people do that.

i'm in the process of trying to figure out what to do with mine... i like everything about mine except for the way it looks, it is just too light and doesn't look natural enough for what i'm going for. the sample in the store was the exact color of playsand and the stuff i brought home is white. i really don't like the idea of swapping it all out again for play sand, but i need to figure something out before i get it planted because i don't want to hate it down the road and its much easier to fix now.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

joedizzlempls said:


> if you're having problems with algae, just cut your lighting back a bit... i would give it a bit more time before you go through the hassle of swapping it out again. adding gravel would work if you don't like the look of it... i've seen plenty of people do that.
> 
> i'm in the process of trying to figure out what to do with mine... i like everything about mine except for the way it looks, it is just too light and doesn't look natural enough for what i'm going for. the sample in the store was the exact color of playsand and the stuff i brought home is white. i really don't like the idea of swapping it all out again for play sand, but i need to figure something out before i get it planted because i don't want to hate it down the road and its much easier to fix now.


I wouldnt do any of your other tanks until you've had/experienced the 75gal first.

I am the opposite of you joe, I like the light colored sand better but its obviously got a down side


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Feefa said:


> So after seeing so many members converting to sand I decided to get some pool filter sand.
> 
> At first I absolutely loved the look but now not so much.
> The problem is that the white sand is always dirty, the debris on the surface is easy enough to deal with but the sand is discolored. I dont know if its algea building on the surface but it looks horrible after a couple days after cleaning.
> ...


I have play sand mized with river/pea sized gravel. It mainly consists of sand, but both are natural looking so no one stands out a ton. I would just keep this sand in for a couple months to see if things improve. When removing the previous substrate you would lose some bacteria and stir some crap up so that could add to some algae. I would just try to see if it gets better when the tank reestablishes. White sand will show more stuff though. Black moon or brown play sand would look cleaner.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

sean-820 said:


> So after seeing so many members converting to sand I decided to get some pool filter sand.
> 
> At first I absolutely loved the look but now not so much.
> The problem is that the white sand is always dirty, the debris on the surface is easy enough to deal with but the sand is discolored. I dont know if its algea building on the surface but it looks horrible after a couple days after cleaning.
> ...


I have play sand mized with river/pea sized gravel. It mainly consists of sand, but both are natural looking so no one stands out a ton. I would just keep this sand in for a couple months to see if things improve. When removing the previous substrate you would lose some bacteria and stir some crap up so that could add to some algae. I would just try to see if it gets better when the tank reestablishes. White sand will show more stuff though. Black moon or brown play sand would look cleaner.
[/quote]

Sounds good, I also have pea sized gravel and would just add a thin layer on tp so you see both sand and gravel.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

I got my sand from home depot and gravel from another hardware store which made it all much cheaper then lfs gravel. Its probably the most natural looking substrate i found and the cheapest.


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## 65galhex (Nov 5, 2008)

Feefa- Check out my saved topic all about the filter sand I used...... I have the exact same problem you do but it is very fixable and you dont have to swap substrates. The debris sits on the top layer of sand making it easier to clean, but harder to look at. It is a lot easier to work with bc all the crap just gets sucked up off the top as opposed to all the way through like gravel. I believe what you are seeing are from my knowledge; diatoms. You could always increase your filter size or what I did is take your python and with very little suction on it- maybe have the valve open half way- stir up the top 1/2 inch of sand and you will literally see a "cloud" of dirt come up. The suction should be strong enough to suck up the crap but not the sand. Pool filter sand is also a bit heavier, hence why it settles faster. Another thought that comes to mind is that pool filter sand is made to trap and stop particles from going through the filter and back into the pool; that is just a random side thought- whether or not its a valid point, idk. Just be careful to not stir up too much sand or else you may see some green slimy type algae growing on the surface. Keep up on the h2o changes for a week with that method and you should be all good.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

65galhex said:


> Feefa- Check out my saved topic all about the filter sand I used...... I have the exact same problem you do but it is very fixable and you dont have to swap substrates. The debris sits on the top layer of sand making it easier to clean, but harder to look at. It is a lot easier to work with bc all the crap just gets sucked up off the top as opposed to all the way through like gravel. I believe what you are seeing are from my knowledge; diatoms. You could always increase your filter size or what I did is take your python and with very little suction on it- maybe have the valve open half way- stir up the top 1/2 inch of sand and you will literally see a "cloud" of dirt come up. The suction should be strong enough to suck up the crap but not the sand. Pool filter sand is also a bit heavier, hence why it settles faster. Another thought that comes to mind is that pool filter sand is made to trap and stop particles from going through the filter and back into the pool; that is just a random side thought- whether or not its a valid point, idk. Just be careful to not stir up too much sand or else you may see some green slimy type algae growing on the surface. Keep up on the h2o changes for a week with that method and you should be all good.


Thanks hex, that is actually what I've been doing but it comes back after a few days.
My filtration on my 150gal is an Ehiem 2213 and 2217 which is plenty I think.

I'll keep trying but if this keeps up then I'm putting in a layer of gravel.

Thanks for the help fellas


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## FretsOnFire00 (Sep 10, 2009)

Why not just grow a carpet plant? Like dwarf baby tears or hair grass. Looks amazing and will cover up any of that. Spreads quickly on sand too. It will also hold down the sand so that your piranhas dont blow it around so much when they get spooked. Also will help break down the crap the builds up on the sand, less water changes.

Why not just grow a carpet plant? Like dwarf baby tear or hair grass. Looks amazing and will cover up any of that. Spreads quickly on sand too. It will also hold down the sand so that your piranhas dont blow it around so much when they get spooked. Also will help break down the crap the builds up on the sand, less water changes.


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## 65galhex (Nov 5, 2008)

bc debris on the substrate will destroy your water params....


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

a carpet would work, but not baby tears or dwarf hair grass unless you have high light and possibly C02


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## 65galhex (Nov 5, 2008)

What kind of plant did u have in mind?


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## FretsOnFire00 (Sep 10, 2009)

If you do some weekly fetalizer dustings he shoudl be fine, i believe in another post he said he had high light. Worth a try, doesnt cost very much, and if it works it will look amazing.


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## SpecialEffect (Aug 7, 2009)

Today i just baught myself 50 pound bag of colored silica sand from my dads construction company... Costed me 24.50 (cost price lol) and its SLIGHTLY a bit smaller then pool filter sand and it's black in color... It looks 100% identical to tahitian moon sand... However i rinsed it abit at the shop tonight but it wasent enough, so tommorow im going back there to rinse it...

Hopefully tommorow it'll look amazing, will post pics!
They also had so many other colors, but black seems good lol.

I'll tell yah how that comes along Feefa... Hopefully i wont experience whats happening to you


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

you paid $24.50 for a 50 lb. bag of black silica sand? the place i bought my tan colored stuff had black and they wanted 9 bucks for a 100 lb. bag


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

When I ran a powerhead on my tanks with sand all the debris would be blown in one spot and easy to pick out. Otherwise SUCK IT UP BITCH and CLEAN YOUR TANKS!!!!!!! LOL! 
J/ K FEEFA :rasp:


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Do you guys think the sand turning black is effecting my water params?
Also what are diatomes?



cobrafox46 said:


> When I ran a powerhead on my tanks with sand all the debris would be blown in one spot and easy to pick out. Otherwise SUCK IT UP BITCH and CLEAN YOUR TANKS!!!!!!! LOL!
> J/ K FEEFA :rasp:


I guess I should clean the tank since its been 3months already :rasp:


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## Us And Them (Dec 4, 2008)

Feefa said:


> When I ran a powerhead on my tanks with sand all the debris would be blown in one spot and easy to pick out. Otherwise SUCK IT UP BITCH and CLEAN YOUR TANKS!!!!!!! LOL!
> J/ K FEEFA :rasp:


I guess I should clean the tank since its been 3months already :rasp:
[/quote]

Feefa , im not quite understanding this here.... Your telling me Your WHITE Pool Filter sand is Turning Black ?? do you have any pictures ? ive never experienced this kind of a Problem...

Infact , i know that there are BLACK particles in the WHITE sand ... But I dont see how sand TURNS black.

Anyways , its all in the amount of Work you put into Tank maintenance.... im in College and Im in and out of my House all Day.. I probably spend atleast an hour a day on Tank maintenance.....

I havent Changed my Tank water on both my Tanks in about 2 weeks , and my Params are dead
spot on and my sand is spotless , very very very Clean tanks with excellent filtration.

When I changed my Substrate over all of the Brown Crap did settle on the top of my sand only because i didnt take as much care cleaning the gravel as i now do the sand.

White sand looks sooo bad ass .

AND FOR THE GUY WITH THE SILICA SAND , i heard that it contains too Much CALCIUM and could 
be harmful for Your piranhas but also very beneficial to Your reptiles.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

CrazeeJon said:


> When I ran a powerhead on my tanks with sand all the debris would be blown in one spot and easy to pick out. Otherwise SUCK IT UP BITCH and CLEAN YOUR TANKS!!!!!!! LOL!
> J/ K FEEFA :rasp:


I guess I should clean the tank since its been 3months already :rasp:
[/quote]

Feefa , im not quite understanding this here.... Your telling me Your WHITE Pool Filter sand is Turning Black ?? do you have any pictures ? ive never experienced this kind of a Problem...

Infact , i know that there are BLACK particles in the WHITE sand ... But I dont see how sand TURNS black.

Anyways , its all in the amount of Work you put into Tank maintenance.... im in College and Im in and out of my House all Day.. I probably spend atleast an hour a day on Tank maintenance.....

I havent Changed my Tank water on both my Tanks in about 2 weeks , and my Params are dead
spot on and my sand is spotless , very very very Clean tanks with excellent filtration.

When I changed my Substrate over all of the Brown Crap did settle on the top of my sand only because i didnt take as much care cleaning the gravel as i now do the sand.

White sand looks sooo bad ass .

*AND FOR THE GUY WITH THE SILICA SAND , i heard that it contains too Much CALCIUM and could 
be harmful for Your piranhas but also very beneficial to Your reptiles.*
[/quote]
do you have pool filter sand in your tank? if so, you have silica sand...

silica sand is completely inert, so there shouldn't be any risks to the health of your fish.


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## SpecialEffect (Aug 7, 2009)

sorry for stealing thread...

My solo piranha and his 3 little buddies seem to be loving the sand alot... Will make new thread with pictures later!


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

CrazeeJon said:


> When I ran a powerhead on my tanks with sand all the debris would be blown in one spot and easy to pick out. Otherwise SUCK IT UP BITCH and CLEAN YOUR TANKS!!!!!!! LOL!
> J/ K FEEFA :rasp:


I guess I should clean the tank since its been 3months already :rasp:
[/quote]

Feefa , im not quite understanding this here.... Your telling me Your WHITE Pool Filter sand is Turning Black ?? do you have any pictures ? ive never experienced this kind of a Problem...

Infact , i know that there are BLACK particles in the WHITE sand ... But I dont see how sand TURNS black.

Anyways , its all in the amount of Work you put into Tank maintenance.... im in College and Im in and out of my House all Day.. I probably spend atleast an hour a day on Tank maintenance.....

I havent Changed my Tank water on both my Tanks in about 2 weeks , and my Params are dead
spot on and my sand is spotless , very very very Clean tanks with excellent filtration.

When I changed my Substrate over all of the Brown Crap did settle on the top of my sand only because i didnt take as much care cleaning the gravel as i now do the sand.

White sand looks sooo bad ass .

AND FOR THE GUY WITH THE SILICA SAND , i heard that it contains too Much CALCIUM and could 
be harmful for Your piranhas but also very beneficial to Your reptiles.
[/quote]

I dont do my tanks every three months.
I do my maintainence every week and then it looks fine, but after a few days the sand starts going dark again.
Its like a carpet af algae


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## 65galhex (Nov 5, 2008)

Diatoms are from my understanding an organism that thrive off of the silica that the sand is based off of. I'm not sure how exactly they form or go away or what? I was always under the impression it was due to the fact that there wasn't enough filtration but idk.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Anybody know if they effect the water params?


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

I said f*ck it and added gravel, actually looks pretty good


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

2213 Puts out 116 GPH 
2217 Puts out 263 GPH

Total Gallons per hours = 379

150 gallon tank = 2.52 turn over rate

This is not near enough filtration for the fish we keep.

*Grammar Edit


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Ba20 said:


> 2213 Puts out 116 GPH
> 2217 Puts out 263 GPH
> 
> Total Gallons per hours = 379
> ...


You sir are a grade a certified dumbass

The 2213 is rated for 65gal and the 2217 is good for 160gal, thats 225gal of filtration on 150gal tank.
You have obviously never had an ehiem.

Just out of curiosity what should I be running for three 4in pirayas and 4 4in reds in my 150gal tank?


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Ba20 probably would run 7 fx5's on a 10 gallon who gives a f*ck what he thinks


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## cobrafox46 (Jun 2, 2008)

^^^^^you got it all wrong Trig......remember FX5's are junk according to him. He would have 10 Fluval G's on a 10 gallon. Come on....get your facts straight


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

I'm so sorry yeah your right cobra... Feefa your gonna need about 200 more filters on your tank man you don't wanna risk it! Oh yeah use 100% r/o water cause that's what the super cool reef guys do


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

His high turnover only makes sense for mech filtration.

Maybe he's still running hobs :laugh:


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Feefa said:


> When I ran a powerhead on my tanks with sand all the debris would be blown in one spot and easy to pick out. Otherwise SUCK IT UP BITCH and CLEAN YOUR TANKS!!!!!!! LOL!
> J/ K FEEFA :rasp:


I guess I should clean the tank since its been 3months already :rasp:
[/quote]

Also, i may be wrong, but i always though you didnt want to use silica sand?


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## TheWayThingsR (Jan 4, 2007)

^Silica sand has bits of glass in it, not a good idea as fish flash and rub on the bottom as well as dig in the substrate.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

I had an eheim 2217 on a 90 gallon with a oscar and it sucked! Even though it was rated for a bigger tank it did not keep the 90 gallon crystal clean, im guessing because its more of a bio filter with the low gph. IMO ba20 is sort of right it doesn't matter what the filter is rated for on the box you have to pay attention to turnover with piranhas since they are messy. Feefa Im thinking because your Ps are small right now your water is looking good but as they get older and messier I think you might have to add something and increase turnover.

btw ba20 wasn't bashing you or being rude to you in anyway he just threw out some advice/opinion- some of your remarks were uncalled for feefa aka go smoke reefa.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Sounds like you've been smoking some reefa's

Eheims are the sh*t


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

Wow the wolves really came out in this topic, Just an FYI for you Feefa i own several Eheims, I guess if you like bare minimum standards it will work, Says alot about the type of person you are, I also realize that you dont need to move the same volume of water through a canister that you do through a mechanical filter. Though water turn over still needs to be 8-10x as a good rule of thumb. You never mentioned having a powerhead so all i had to go by was your filtration.

Have a great day, Buddy









Thanks SYM, after all our disagreements your a stand up guy.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

wow, this thread got nasty.... anyways, i'd like to see some pics of the pfs mixed with gravel, kinda curious to see what it looks like.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Ba20 said:


> Wow the wolves really came out in this topic, Just an FYI for you Feefa i own several Eheims, I guess if you like bare minimum standards it will work, Says alot about the type of person you are, I also realize that you dont need to move the same volume of water through a canister that you do through a mechanical filter. Though water turn over still needs to be 8-10x as a good rule of thumb. You never mentioned having a powerhead so all i had to go by was your filtration.
> 
> Have a great day, Buddy
> 
> ...


You think SYM is a standup guy, he's just playing devils advocate.
Shows how dilusional you really are.

Bottom line you're allowed to have your opinions, but there are other ways of doing things so dont preach like yours are the only way as you have been lately in multiple threads. Thats how you end up rubbing people the wrong way there cheif.

BTW you didnt answer my question, guess the wolves scared you off lol


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

Sorry that i missed your question, Biologically you should have ample filtration, but in my opinion you should have more turn over to avoid dead area's. Maybe just add a powerhead,

Seio M2600
Maxi-jet 1200 eco mod
Koralia 5+

All good choices and not to expensive, but there is also

Tunze 
Vortech


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Ba20 said:


> Sorry that i missed your question, Biologically you should have ample filtration, but in my opinion you should have more turn over to avoid dead area's. Maybe just add a powerhead,
> 
> Seio M2600
> Maxi-jet 1200 eco mod
> ...


Thats all you got???
I want to know specifically what you would run on my 150gal with 7 4in pygos and I already have a maxijet 1200.

I want to give my p's the best and do you think my lack of filtration is whats causing the sand to go black?


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

Well i like wet/dry's there very efficient and can handle a huge bio-load. Turn over is a matter of preference, I personally prefer being in the higher range, My power heads are on a timer that shut them off about 45 minutes before the lights go out. I wont go into exact's b/c as you said its a matter of personal preference.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Feefa said:


> Sorry that i missed your question, Biologically you should have ample filtration, but in my opinion you should have more turn over to avoid dead area's. Maybe just add a powerhead,
> 
> Seio M2600
> Maxi-jet 1200 eco mod
> ...


Thats all you got???
I want to know specifically what you would run on my 150gal with 7 4in pygos and I already have a maxijet 1200.

I want to give my p's the best and do you think my lack of filtration is whats causing the sand to go black?
[/quote]

I would run no less than a 125 gal of pure sump...

Screw cannisters and hobs altogether.....


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

lol AK you cant be serious ? where is the smiley ?


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Ba20 said:


> lol AK you cant be serious ? where is the smiley ?


Why?


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

If I ever get a larger tank I would like to go with a sump and I'll be coming to you ak since I dont know much about them :laugh:


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