# guess what happpen



## magnaflow

ok so I dont know if any of you read the post call "when will it be time" but I was just seeign abotu my reds breeding well last night they did.. i got to watch alot fo it when i woke up tons of eggs.. So I got a 25g to put them in whats the big importmant thigns to do.. like what shoudl I do now.. I will read up alot today but I know you guys know alot. thanks
I will post pictures when I get home from work


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## StryfeMP

Basically, you would need a sponge filter, a hatchery for baby brine shrimp, and some baby brine shrimp eggs. Since you already have a tank for them, I'm assuming that you already have a heater. I would keep the tank bare bottom as you don't want the fry digging and hiding within the gravel. If you don't happen to have a sponge filter and end up buying one, I'd get some bio-spira as well to help establish the bacteria colony within the sponge. Can't think of anything else at the moment.


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## magnaflow

ya thats all I figured I needed..


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## magnaflow

when the best time to take the eggs our i see soem thigns say 2 days other 4.. also when do you start to feed them brine shrimp soon as ther ein there new tank?


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## StryfeMP

Personally, once the pair are done doing the deed and the eggs have been laid, I like to wait 2-3days until their tails have developed and then syphon them out. You see, fresh laid eggs are sticky and are hard to syphon out. Also, waiting those couple of days, the male has time to do his thing; fanning the eggs making sure there's always fresh water flowing through the eggs and getting rid of the unfertilized, useless eggs. Also, this waiting period gives the male time to fully fertilize the eggs. Good luck and keep us updated.


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## magnaflow

ya I seen tons og egg this mourning but I will post a picture when i get home. Well I will take one.


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## magnaflow

ok so got eggs in another tank. Well got out what I could not bad for my first time.. Next time well go 100x better.. so when do I feed them brine shrimp? there about 2 days old now and there wiggling around on the bottom


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## StryfeMP

Once they have gotten through the sacks on their stomachs and are free swimming you should start feeding them fresh hatched baby brine shrimp and not adult brine shrimp. To better get all of the fresh hatched fry, you should syphon them into a bucket and kind of make the water swirl around so that eggs collect in the middle of the bucket then using a turkey baster suck them out and then put them into the tank and do the syphon of the nest again until there are no more eggs.


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## RICARDO

hey magnaflow can we see some pictures of the babys thanks and good luck with the care


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## StryfeMP

Yes yes, pictures, feed us pictures! lol.


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## notaverage

Waiting man!

Good luck with that!


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## magnaflow

stupid internet cut out all weekand had to get soem guy to come fix it.. 
So heres what goign on at thsi point I got bbs being made umm were on like day 5 or 6 almost and a few are free swimign most are on the bottom i can see lots they kidn amove now and then. I am assuming by the morning they will all be going. coupel questions shoudl I adding the bbs right now so its in there or wait until i see alot swim.. and is a light on the tank gonna hurt them?


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## StryfeMP

No, the light on the tank isn't going to hurt them, I have mine on 24/7, might grow some algae though. Uhm, as for the baby brine shrimp feeding, if you have a few already free swimming and have gone through their egg sacks, then yes I would put just a LITTLE bit of baby brine shrimp in there for them, as more become free swimming you can feed more and more. Be sure not to overfeed with baby brine shrimp because they only survive in the freshwater for a few hours and will easily foul up your tank.


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## magnaflow

so they normaly take about a week to be free swiming that sound right?


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## StryfeMP

Yea, take about 5-7 days. The quickness of their development, I've found through my experiences, depend on the temperature of the water that they're in. The higher the temperature, the quicker they develop and the lower the temperature the slower.


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## rolly_169

quick question stryfe... what do you think about paramecium for food. i assume they would last longer in the tank because they are fresh water?


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## StryfeMP

Riley said:


> quick question stryfe... what do you think about paramecium for food. i assume they would last longer in the tank because they are fresh water?


You know, I've actually thought about this once a while back and did some reading on it. Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with paramecium being a food for fry as they do survive a few days to a week even in freshwater and you could feed once per day because of that. The length of time they survive though depends on the amount of food, bacteria, that is present in the aquarium at any given time. If there isn't much bacteria in the water for them to eat, they won't do too well and will cause the length of their survival in freshwater, even though they are freshwater, to shorten; and if you were to overfeed with paramecium, this could easily foul up the water and kill the fry. They are pretty easy to take care of, but their cultures do crash, or so I've read. I have never tried culturing paramecium before and would like it if you decided to go this route to share your experience. I am still a firm believer that nothing could replace baby brine shrimp as a main staple food for young fry and that the second best would be microworms. These two foods are relatively easy to culture and do not take up much time to prepare. Baby brine shrimp hatching takes a bit more work than taking care of microworm culture and microworm culture is basically a never ending supply of food for the fry, so long as you take care of the culture; which is basically just a mixture of oatmeal, some active yeast, and water. I have a batch of fry right now eating nothing but microworms and the once in a blue moon feeding of bbs and they are developing really well. Hope this answered your question.


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## magnaflow

I got some daphnia for the fry woudl they be ready to eat that once there swiming? i made soem bbs but not sure if it came out right.. the eggs didnt seem to float to the stop when it was done.. maybe I did it wrong I just used a pop bottle with airline and rock salt... but they got daphnia on sale at he lps for $5.32 and it woudl last a while.. but can I use that now and I will try to get the bbs in too


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## StryfeMP

yea, you can feed the daphnia once the fry are free swimming. for the bbs, did you take out the air line? you've got to take it out and let it settle for 5 minutes, the hatched bbs shrimp and the unhatched eggs will sink to the bottom and the shells will float to the top. make sure that you don't siphon directly from the bottom but a little above the bottom so you don't suck out any unhatched eggs.


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## ChilDawg

A note: _Daphnia_ that have not been enriched somehow are probably not the most nutritious of foods. Try culturing some green water for them at a minimum and make sure that they have eaten plenty before turning them loose on your ps.


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## magnaflow

thanks man i will try that soon as I get off work hehehe .. alot fo work to do this bu tnext time I will be more ready. Thansk for the help and i will keep ya updated and I plan to take some pictures


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## StryfeMP

no doubt, always glad to help. I remember when my reds first started breeding, I didn't know anything, but thanks to this site and the helpful people here to answer my questions, I know my sh*t now and have advanced my techniques through my experiences. I love this hobby.


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## RICARDO

StryfeMP said:


> no doubt, always glad to help. I remember when my reds first started breeding, I didn't know anything, but thanks to this site and the helpful people here to answer my questions, I know my sh*t now and have advanced my techniques through my experiences. I love this hobby.


 just buting in but i didnt know nothing about breeding and thanks to sryfemp i now still have my first batch of fry still swimming and doing good so yes this site does help i came back to this site after a year and half because they breed good to know alot more a bout my ps


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## magnaflow

yes he is very helpful!!!! I am glad there peopel liek him who knwo this stuff to help thos ewho dont.
next question







when do I start waterchanegs on the fry tank? small ones I am assuming


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## StryfeMP

I'd say start after your first feeding. Before I put on my R/O system on my fry tanks, I did 25% water changes with treated water at the same temperature as the fry tank everyday. If you've got a water test kit, just keep checking on it and try to keep the water as clean as you can.


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## magnaflow

ok so theres a few free swiming tonight I will do a small change and not suck stuf fup frm the bottom just kinda use a jug to get it out


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## StryfeMP

I find that using a turkey baster helps out a lot in keeping the bottom of the fry tank clean.

Any pictures yet?


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## magnaflow

not yet kinda waiting for alot to be swiming hehehehe


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## StryfeMP

ha-ha, alright.


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## magnaflow

none of the picture would come out but I made a little video still not great but gives you an idea show s asmall portion of them


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## StryfeMP

nice


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## magnaflow

ok on to week 2 almost since the eggs were layed.. I got alot of fry left alot died but first time doing this so thats to be excpeted. There eatign right now frozen bbs and daipha i know thats spelled wrong. And been doing small water changes every second to 3rd day. So when do you change up the food to soem flakes and stuff just for something different etc.. I assume I am not real close to this stage cuz there small as hell still..


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## StryfeMP

You sure you have frozen baby brine shrimp?


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## magnaflow

yep the Hikari stuff says right on the package bbs and says it for fry and its tiny as heck. I had a few hatch and it looks the same plus I see them eat it. The cubes are small but I dtill onyl feed half of one at a time


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## StryfeMP

sweet


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## magnaflow

ya another question.. I know I lost quite a few becuase it seem everyday I see less and less.. which isnt fun but for the first batch thats whats to be expected.. But I have alot swimign but there is alot just sittign on the bottom that swim every knwo and then and still move. is this normal? for them to be on the bottom all the time


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## StryfeMP

Yea, it's completely normal, they aren't going to be swimming all the time; sometimes they'll just chill.


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## magnaflow

Just got hoem form work.. I think alot of them are dead I can see maybe liek 5 swiming. alot on thew bottom but alot dead. I wonder what I did wrong they were fine th elast 2 weeks I had tons.. then within liek 2 days they all start droping.. water test's were good I feed them 2-3 tiems a day in little amounts.. Not much I can do now I guess just hope they do it again


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## StryfeMP

Are you sure your filter was cycled? I believe fresh eggs and fry are susceptible to even little amounts/build up of ammonia, etc. Also, the water that you were using for water changes, was it the same temperature as the water in the tank? Also, how was your feeding schedule looking like, approximately what times were you able to feed them? And just to add this in there, if that was your first set of eggs, I wouldn't stress much over it because most of the time the very first batch of eggs are pretty weak and tend to die easily no matter what you do, that's what happened with my first batch and I was in shock when they all just seemed to die off, lol. It's funny now but it wasn't funny then, thought I missed and did something wrong. But anyway, your fish will definitely breed again and you'll soon have another batch of eggs to work with. Most reds that begin breeding in the home aquaria are pretty prolific breeders, so I'm sure you'll get another shot at it, just keep up with your regular water maintenance.


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## magnaflow

thanks!! ya I was thinking it was a filter thing.. I am settign some up in the main tank to cycle for next time.. what is the best one to get? also i was feeding then when I woke up so like 7am then when Igot home from work like 6 then at 10 before bed


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## StryfeMP

Well, I've started to like Lustar Hydro Sponge Filters. But now though, I'm planning on making my own sponge filters instead of buying them.


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## magnaflow

ya I Was gonna buy one but no one around here has any in stock and dont feel like ordering one.. how are you going to make yours?


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## StryfeMP

By using the uplift tubes for the under gravel filters that I have but don't use, I can drill a bunch of holes on the bottom of them, sealing the bottom of the tube as well. Cut up 4x4 cubes of foam rubber/open celled sponges and bore a hole that the tube will snuggly fit in, drop an air line into it and bam, sponge filter. I'll probably do a diy on it, it's pretty easy and a lot cheaper if you needed to make a lot of sponge filters for a lot of tanks like I need to do.

I'm even thinking about just making a BIG sponge filter utilizing a rubbermaid container, still in the works in my mind.


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## magnaflow

hmm got a link on how to do it cheap and right?


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## StryfeMP

magnaflow said:


> hmm got a link on how to do it cheap and right?


nope, unfortunately I do not, but you can just google up diy sponge filters and you'll get a bunch of them.


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## magnaflow

ya I seen some I guess you can go to a fabric store for the sponge


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## StryfeMP

yeap, the size of the pores really all depends on what you're using the sponge filters for.


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## magnaflow

I just want it for a fry tank for next time they breed.


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## magnaflow

so there black in color again and i can see the big belly so I am hoping they will do it again soon. This time I am gonna be rdy for them!


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## magnaflow

false alarm i guess been a few weeks and still nothing.. damn


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## StryfeMP

It's alright, if they're turning black again, it'll be sometime soon. Good luck on this up coming clutch, I'm sure you'll do much better with this coming one.


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## magnaflow

I am hoping so.. So tell me if what I am doing right now if fine to get them to breed again. I am doign water chnages every wednsday and saturday.. feeding once a week like thursday .. would right after the water change be better? and doing about %25 water changes with cool water..


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## StryfeMP

Honestly, if that's your regular routine for feeding and water changing even before they bred, then I would guess that you're good on what you're doing. On my breeders, I always replace the water with cold tap with prime, it's winter time here so the waters pretty cold.


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## magnaflow

last time I acutaly let the ph lower then raise it then they breed so nto sure if I will have to do that again


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## magnaflow

still nothing yet. But I should have soem microworms coming today from somone so I like to get a good culture going. sterfrymp how do you have your setup for good results. I was thinking of clear contrainers wool inthe air holes to keep them inside and oatmeal and yeast with water to make it damp I guess is the way to go. Any trick I should know? Also When I should explaned it. Like more then one container take from one to the other.
thanks


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## StryfeMP

There's really no tricks to culturing microworms. At the moment, I have about 8 containers of culture for microworms. I refresh the cultures every 2 to 3 weeks, just to keep them producing fresh and healthy worms.


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## magnaflow

ya I just got one today the women said was a good year old.. So I will span if off to a couple more


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## StryfeMP

magnaflow said:


> ya I just got one today the women said was a good year old.. So I will span if off to a couple more


a year old!? wow! you sure you got microworms, do you have any pictures of it?


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## magnaflow

no I can take some later if ya want well I can try.. There very very tiny and if yo uhold it up to a light you can see them wiggling.. its smells grouse.. well just from the yeast..


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## StryfeMP

Any pictures? Honestly, if it's a healthy culture it should smell kind of sweet and good, if it smells rancid and rank then it's probably gone bad. BUT if there are still worms wiggling in there, you could make new cultures and put them in there, a good teaspoon of the old culture into the new culture will provide enough worms to inoculate the new culture and in a week or two you'll have tiny, healthy, little worms crawling up the sides of your container. Then all you have to do is keep taking care of the culture, renew it when it stops producing as many worms. Those little plastic jars that bettas come in are perfect for culturing microworms.


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## magnaflow

not yet i need batteries.. but yes you can see tons of worms up the side.. it doesnt smell rank i just hate the smell of yeast.. what do you use for your culture I made a new one with instant oatmeal and yeast. the one I got seems fine but the one i made seems to keep getting mositure in it
and my rb hasnt breed yet damnit! They gotten real agessive the last few days and bigger belly without feeding so lets hope.


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## magnaflow

I am also thinking I added to much yeast so I will start another one


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## StryfeMP

You couldn't put too much yeast in the culture. I just use normal 100% oats, dry yeast, and some water. I've never used the instant stuff, I find the normal oats do well for me. Moisture in the containers is fine, you can just open it up and air it out every now and again.


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## magnaflow

ya I got home and check it and there tons on the sides of the new one.


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## StryfeMP

sounds good =]


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## magnaflow

ya I am gonna start a new one on the weekand so I will have 3 goign so now I am really rdy for the next batch which I am hoping will be soon. they've been agressive and one keeping other away from his corner which is what the did last time so lets hope


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