# Lighting



## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

I have a 40 gallon breeder-type tank and my plants are hygrophilias with some java moss here and there. I used to run a 20w fluorescent (made for aquariums ofc). I forgot how many k it is since nothing on the bulb says it. Only the wattage. I used to keep a window nearby open for indirect sunlight to come in the room and it helped keep my plants healthy and thriving. I decided to put drapes on the window for privacy and i have observed my plants slowly deteriorate as a result. I have another bulb here and decided to try it on. It is an 18w but has 10,000k. The color is somewhat blueish-white as opposed to the other one which is sort of on the reddish side.

Will the 10,000k bulb help with the plants? I dont want to lose the plants since Im pretty happy with the tank set up. I do not have C02 but i dose flourish excell.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

6700k is better for plants. Get yourself a 36" Coralife T-5 fixture from BigAl's and you'll be able to keep your plants plenty healthy with Excel.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

thanks.


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

BioTeAcH said:


> 6700k is better for plants. Get yourself a 36" Coralife T-5 fixture from BigAl's and you'll be able to keep your plants plenty healthy with Excel.


I run 4 t5 ho's on a 40 breeder with no problems as long as I keep up on dosing.

I use metalux high bays isted of your traditional aq lights its a cost savings for shure


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

well i got the 36" Coral Life fixture from Big Al's. It just arrived today. I have to say I am very impressed with it. To date, its the best light I have ever had. This thing is even brighter than the 10,000k 18w bulb I had on previously. But of course, the t5s are 21w each (iirc). I like how the colors have jumped out. The colors are just more intense...from the gravel, the fishes, and the plants. I still do not plan on running C02, just Flourish Excel. I have the timer set 12 hours. And i will go from there if the plants can make a comeback. They havent died off but the leaves seem to be lanky not firm as they should be.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

post pics and keep us updated. I would like to see the plants.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

i'll try to get some pics posted hopefully tomorrow. the plants are just hygrophilias, a small java fern (which is a story in itself), and a small bunch of java moss.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Doktordet said:


> well i got the 36" Coral Life fixture from Big Al's. It just arrived today. I have to say I am very impressed with it. To date, its the best light I have ever had. This thing is even brighter than the 10,000k 18w bulb I had on previously. But of course, the t5s are 21w each (iirc). I like how the colors have jumped out. The colors are just more intense...from the gravel, the fishes, and the plants. I still do not plan on running C02, just Flourish Excel. I have the timer set 12 hours. And i will go from there if the plants can make a comeback. They havent died off but the leaves seem to be lanky not firm as they should be.


They pack quite a punch for such a low profile fixture! I think I have mine set for 10 hours to keep algae down...I double dose Excel too. You'll probably want to start adding Fluorish Comprehensive and Iron once a week or so and Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium once a week or so as well to really get them going and keep them healthy.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Doktordet said:


> i'll try to get some pics posted hopefully tomorrow. the plants are just hygrophilias, a small java fern (which is a story in itself), and a small bunch of java moss.


I think I know the a-hole that sold those to you.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

maknwar said:


> i'll try to get some pics posted hopefully tomorrow. the plants are just hygrophilias, a small java fern (which is a story in itself), and a small bunch of java moss.


I think I know the a-hole that sold those to you.








[/quote]

lol. yup!







sorry no pics today. i was out all day and my timer has already shut the lights off so no pics.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Ok, so here are updated pictures with the new fixture...maknwar, most of the hygros did not make it past the 2nd week but I managed to save a few and they are growing nicely. the java fern also shriveled up but i decided not to take out the rhizome (?) from the substrate and see what would happen. Now, its beginning to sprout new leaves and hopefully, it can make a comeback. (I posted before and after pictures of the java fern). Enough of the talk and on to some mediocre/poor pictures. sorry for the quality of the pics; best i can do for now...









I have an algae problem. This thing keeps coming back whether i had strong or weak lighting even after scrubbing it off. I am thinking, maybe the plants here will starve the algae of any excess nutrients in the water column. I do not overfeed, and for the tank, i would think the bioload would be low. I keep up on the water changes but i do not have a test kit so i cannot post water parameters.









































Notice the Java Fern here:








It "died" and is coming back from the dead: sprouting again


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Looks really good besides the algae. If I remember correctly, you received some hygro cylon and low grow. The low grow looks like it is doing good. The java fern is a very hardy plant, so it should bounce back and be reproducing in no time.

The blue green stuff on the top pics is caused by low nitrates or direct sun contact. Either dose some nitrates or add more fish to get the nitrates up. You can also black out the tank for 3-4 days to get rid of it. Make sure there is no sun light hitting the tank.

The black brush algae in lower pics is caused by low co2, so adding flourish excel will get rid of it.

When you get rid of the algae, its going to look nice.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

maknwar said:


> The blue green stuff on the top pics is caused by low nitrates or direct sun contact. Either dose some nitrates or add more fish to get the nitrates up. You can also black out the tank for 3-4 days to get rid of it. Make sure there is no sun light hitting the tank.


thanks bro. how can i dose nitrates? is there an additive i can buy to pour in or something? If i add fish, considering exos are a pretty raucous bunch, what can i add in? I tried tetras once (bleeding heart, cardinal, neons, rasoboras, glowlights, etc.) but the exos ate them until they were all exterminated. they are like p's.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Seachem makes some liquid fertilizers that can be bought at almost any pet store. Flourish nitrogen and flourish excel would help you out right now. You really should think about buying test kits, they can point certain problems (like low nitrates). When you get the exos, I am guessing you will have 20+ of them? If so, you might not have to dose the nitrate as much if you have a larger bioload. When I have 7 P's in my 125 I never had to add nitrates.

I buy dry ferts, which last a long time but I dose a crap load into my high light tank. If you want to go that route, check out this thread http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=177891, but I would suggest going with the seachem line for now. That stuff can be ordered online too, http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl36...shnitrogen250ml


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

i will check 'em out. thanks!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Maknwar is giving you great advice.

I just wanted to add about the cyanobacteria--(the bright green smelly stuff)
Make sure your filters are clear and clean, make sure you do your large weekly water changes, and I know this sounds tedious, but remove it completely from the tank whenever it appears, and it should be gone in a month or 2.
This will take a little extra work, but it should be erradicated after so long of doing that.
If the stuff stays on your plants, it could smother them.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

thanks dippy. im on to it.


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Tank looks really nice. Get some pics up when everything clears up.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

there are some cyanobacteria sheets covering some of the plants behind the driftwood. for me to clean it off, i would have to pull out the plants. Can i just nuke the tank with erythromycin? tank inhabitants are exodons, a chinese algae eater and a couple of snails, will they be fine after the erythromycin treatment?



lo4life said:


> Tank looks really nice. Get some pics up when everything clears up.


thanks. i will.


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## nataz (Mar 31, 2006)

Tank looks good man, can't wait to see it in a few months when it takes off.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Doktordet said:


> there are some cyanobacteria sheets covering some of the plants behind the driftwood. for me to clean it off, i would have to pull out the plants. Can i just nuke the tank with erythromycin? tank inhabitants are exodons, a chinese algae eater and a couple of snails, will they be fine after the erythromycin treatment?


Yes you can add the erythromycin, but I would do a black out before I would do that. 3-4 days should kill off the cyanobacteria. Do a 50% water change, add some nitrates, cover the whole tank for 3-4 days with no peeking or feeding. Then do a 50% water change.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I hope you get this resolved, it has very good potential


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

thanks for all the great comments and help guys! I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

After what seemed an eternity, the cyanobacteria seemed to have died out following several days of darkness. My plants seem to be fine. I had to do this in spurts of 2 -3 days because there was just so much sh*t around. Going dark for 2 weeks was not an option since my plants would inevitably suffer as well. I have just turned the light on today and am observing any cyanobacteria activity.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

how's it looking?


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## ryanimpreza (Jul 19, 2006)

it looks like you have the light directly on the glass. If so I would be careful with that. The glass will heat up and as soon as water hits the glass the glass will break. Badass set up though. keep posting updated pics.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> it looks like you have the light directly on the glass. If so I would be careful with that. The glass will heat up and as soon as water hits the glass the glass will break. Badass set up though. keep posting updated pics.


the light fixture doesnt have rails to put the standard mounting legs on. However, it does have its own built-in brace which hooks on the sides of the tank to prevent it from falling into the water should the glass break. will take some pics and update. thanks.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

ok. here are pictures i just took. pardon the poor quality. im just your regular point and shoot guy.

With Flash:
















Without Flash


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

*looks a lot better!*

I personally, would scrub the algea off the back glass, Because it spreads.

Once your plants grow in more, that will be reduced, because your plants will be eating your excess ferts.
It happens where there is a deficiancy too, so keep that in mind


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

thanks Dippy. Yes, I'll scrub out the algae. I have a couple of snails in there but funny that they dont seem to like to eat the algae growing on the glass and some on the driftwood.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

There is just so much of it, that it would take a few herds of snails to eat all that lol


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> There is just so much of it, that it would take a few herds of snails to eat all that lol


lol. i guess i overestimated their abilities. I got 2 of the largest snails in the store. lol.


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## MiGsTeR (Jan 19, 2008)

Haha. Why not a pleco? For some reason I find it a necessity to have a pleco in all my tanks when its the opposite cuz they create so much mess.. lol


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

MiGsTeR said:


> Haha. Why not a pleco? For some reason I find it a necessity to have a pleco in all my tanks when its the opposite cuz they create so much mess.. lol


actually, Im already thinking of putting a small pleco in there just to avoid having the stuff build back up again after i scrub 'em all off.

edit: but on the other hand, Ive had plecos in this tank before which really did not take interest in the algae. In fact, a few have died due to starvation. For some reason, some of those plecos did not want to eat the algae. I attempted feeding them algae wafers but the exodons would eat the wafers even before it hit the bottom for the pleco to get to. I guess its a hit or miss with plecos. Some like to eat algae some dont.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Most plecos do not eat algea!

The problem is more than likely an unbalanced tank. Planted aquariums take patience, and maintenance, and sometimes, painstaking troubleshooting.

IMHO, more plant mass would equal less algea for sure in this tank. or, a little less light, and less ferts.
Hard to say what exactly it is until you have tried a bunch of things to eradicate it.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Most plecos do not eat algea!
> 
> The problem is more than likely an unbalanced tank. Planted aquariums take patience, and maintenance, and sometimes, painstaking troubleshooting.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think I need more plants/ plant mass in there too. I will try running my lights less hours although right now, I am running 8 hours on the timer.


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## ryanimpreza (Jul 19, 2006)

Doktordet said:


> Most plecos do not eat algea!
> 
> The problem is more than likely an unbalanced tank. Planted aquariums take patience, and maintenance, and sometimes, painstaking troubleshooting.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think I need more plants/ plant mass in there too. I will try running my lights less hours although right now, I am running 8 hours on the timer.
[/quote]
8 hours should be good. it could be a source of indirect light or to much ferts. all in all it looks good. Dippy gives great advice!!!


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

ryanimpreza said:


> Most plecos do not eat algea!
> 
> The problem is more than likely an unbalanced tank. Planted aquariums take patience, and maintenance, and sometimes, painstaking troubleshooting.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think I need more plants/ plant mass in there too. I will try running my lights less hours although right now, I am running 8 hours on the timer.
[/quote]
8 hours should be good. it could be a source of indirect light or to much ferts. all in all it looks good. Dippy gives great advice!!!
[/quote]

Yes, I really need to get a test kit to get a handle on params. But the timer's now set on 8 hrs for the last couple of days, so we'll see if the algae problem will be positively affected.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Just remember that aquatic plants are pretty sensitive to changes to their environment, so try to change things as slowly as you can.

That's why keeping a tight schedulle on water changes, filter cleaning, maintenance, and dosing is pretty important.


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## MiGsTeR (Jan 19, 2008)

Hey should I use the same fixture? Coralife F/W  or Current lights  Or Coralife (power compact) Thx!

Oh yea, I want a medium - high lights and am not running co2


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

MiGsTeR said:


> Hey should I use the same fixture? Coralife F/W  or Current lights  Or Coralife (power compact) Thx!
> 
> Oh yea, I want a medium - high lights and am not running co2


I've heard the T5's are brighter, and use less energy than the PC bulbs. I'd go T5.


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## MiGsTeR (Jan 19, 2008)

One only gives me 1wpg and the other 2 wpg.. Yikes.. Am looking for something in the range of 1.5


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I think 1.2-5wpg is best for growing plants w/o co2.

Just because you can grow more spiecies of plants, and they won't be so slow growing that you don't see any growth whatsoever.


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## MiGsTeR (Jan 19, 2008)

I want to keep em healthy but grow slowly







So I can probably get away with the 1wpg?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

1 wpg with T5 is more like 1.25 with T8's and 1.5 with T12.


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## MiGsTeR (Jan 19, 2008)

That works







Thx


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Well, some unfortunate news, I noticed some of the cyanobacteria trying to make a comeback after i thought it was gone and had started to regularly run 8 hours of light. My tank has been in the dark for the last two days and I plan to keep it this way maybe for the next 2 days? Im just concerned that my plants might suffer from lack of lighting. Watchu think?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

A week in the dark shouldnt kill them.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

maknwar said:


> 1 wpg with T5 is more like 1.25 with T8's and 1.5 with T12.


Ive heard with some good t5 bulbs and slr 1wpg is just as much light as 2wpg pc lighting.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Doktordet said:


> Well, some unfortunate news, I noticed some of the cyanobacteria trying to make a comeback after i thought it was gone and had started to regularly run 8 hours of light. My tank has been in the dark for the last two days and I plan to keep it this way maybe for the next 2 days? Im just concerned that my plants might suffer from lack of lighting. Watchu think?


The stuff definately runs a course through a tank that gets it, it seems. 
Just keep removing it when you see it as best as you can, keep doing large weekly water changes, keep filters clean and clear, and make sure there is enough nitrate in the water for your plants.

4-5 days won't kill your plants, I have gotten plants in the mail after 5 days and they are usually just fine.


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## Curley (Aug 4, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> Maknwar is giving you great advice.
> 
> I just wanted to add about the cyanobacteria--(the bright green smelly stuff)
> Make sure your filters are clear and clean, make sure you do your large weekly water changes, and I know this sounds tedious, but remove it completely from the tank whenever it appears, and it should be gone in a month or 2.
> ...


Not thread jack but I am also having the same problem with this. Could I do like a excel (ex. 4parts h2o & 1 part excel) dip to get rid of it?
It happened when I ran out of excel and added 2 new bulbs. thanks in advance... and Dok your tank looking good!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Curley said:


> Maknwar is giving you great advice.
> 
> I just wanted to add about the cyanobacteria--(the bright green smelly stuff)
> Make sure your filters are clear and clean, make sure you do your large weekly water changes, and I know this sounds tedious, but remove it completely from the tank whenever it appears, and it should be gone in a month or 2.
> ...


Not thread jack but I am also having the same problem with this. Could I do like a excel (ex. 4parts h2o & 1 part excel) dip to get rid of it?
It happened when I ran out of excel and added 2 new bulbs. thanks in advance... and Dok your tank looking good!
[/quote]
IF it's cyanobacteria, it easily wipes off the leaves. I really don't know if excell kills that stuff.

It mostly runs a cycle, which is speeded up drastically by wiping it off leaves as soon as it shows up, and doing large weekly water changes, and keeping filters clean and clear.
Hope that helps


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

maknwar said:


> Maknwar is giving you great advice.
> 
> I just wanted to add about the cyanobacteria--(the bright green smelly stuff)
> Make sure your filters are clear and clean, make sure you do your large weekly water changes, and I know this sounds tedious, but remove it completely from the tank whenever it appears, and it should be gone in a month or 2.
> ...


Not thread jack but I am also having the same problem with this. Could I do like a excel (ex. 4parts h2o & 1 part excel) dip to get rid of it?
It happened when I ran out of excel and added 2 new bulbs. thanks in advance... and Dok your tank looking good!
[/quote]

thanks Curly. hope your problem gets resolved soon as well. Mine's been like a soap opera. Been going on and off for about 2 months now roughly.


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