# mature enough to breed



## KENNYBLAST2005 (Apr 9, 2009)

at what age or size do rbps become mature enough to breed?
also, there has got to be a way to tell male from female right??


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

THE RZA said:


> at what age or size do rbps become mature enough to breed? *about 6" or a year of age.*
> also, there has got to be a way to tell male from female right??*nope. P's are not sexually dimporphic, meaning there are no ditinctions in the sexes. Some say thick is female and thin is male, however that is something that is more controlled byconditions and not sex*


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

I have to disagree on sexing the RB piranha. I can tell M/F on all my breeders. The females are larger and thicker. I agree that it's harder to sex them if you have different unknown ages. But if you watch for a while...you'll be able to tell!


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

if you dotn know its unreliable. I can tell individual fish apart too, but if they have unknown sex, then there is no set distiction for the sexes. agression and whoever eats more could determine size, so you cant just say its a set sex. Also saying you can tell the sexes apart in a breeding pair is a bit of a bias since you already know what the male and female look like. You saw who laid the eggs and who didnt so from that you already knew which was which. I partly agree that there may be some truth, however size can be infuluenced by many other factors so its isnt reliable.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

sean-820 said:


> if you dotn know its unreliable. I can tell individual fish apart too, but if they have unknown sex, then there is no set distiction for the sexes. agression and whoever eats more could determine size, so you cant just say its a set sex. Also saying you can tell the sexes apart in a breeding pair is a bit of a bias since you already know what the male and female look like. You saw who laid the eggs and who didnt so from that you already knew which was which. I partly agree that there may be some truth, however size can be infuluenced by many other factors so its isnt reliable.


well put, also with my experience on breeding reds my males where a bit darker than the females and they had a wierd hue to them but then again like sean said it can be influenced by many factors as well. the male usually starts pushing rocks around to make a nest for the female to lay her eggs then they start swimming around with their heads towards the gravel and start releasing sperm and eggs it usually goes on for a couple hours and then the male will sit there by the eggs and guard them while the female rolls a joint and sits back and relaxes! 2-3 days later they hatch and around a week later you have little turds (fry) swimming around and you definitely wanna put them in another tank like a 10-15gallon and feed them fry food, baby shrimp, etc.


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

I've had both M and F particate in moving gravel, during pre-spawn activity. After spawning, my males tend to swim in circles (constantly) guarding the spawning site. That's how I know they definetely laid eggs.

As for sexing them before any courting begins...it can still be done. Age, size, and appetites, can make it tricky, if the piranha are from different sources, and aren't around the same age. But as with most species of fish...nature makes the females wider to accomodate the eggs. If you watch your fish before and after feeding, you should be able to tell the difference. It may take a few days of observation. I have 18 breeders, and I'm 99% sure of the sex on every one of them. Even the ones that haven't bred yet.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Fishnut2 said:


> I've had both M and F particate in moving gravel, during pre-spawn activity. After spawning, my males tend to swim in circles (constantly) guarding the spawning site. That's how I know they definetely laid eggs.
> 
> As for sexing them before any courting begins...it can still be done. Age, size, and appetites, can make it tricky, if the piranha are from different sources, and aren't around the same age. But as with most species of fish...nature makes the females wider to accomodate the eggs. If you watch your fish before and after feeding, you should be able to tell the difference. It may take a few days of observation. I have 18 breeders, and I'm 99% sure of the sex on every one of them. Even the ones that haven't bred yet.


we are not talking about proven breeders, we are talking about unknown fish. Also do you have pics of the 9 pair you claim to have?


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Sean,
I was adding to what Noodles said about his proven breeders. My males circle the nest constantly after spawning. That's a sure sign that I have eggs. Noodles mentioned his were guarding the eggs. I was curious if his were circling the site as well.
As for pics...I've been kinda busy raising fry. I had no idea they produce so many eggs, and spawn as often as they do. I've been overwhelmed with so many fry, and I'm just getting caught up now. Plus I just got my 1st Rhom, and expect a 2nd one next week. I've bred mostly cories in the past, so I wasn't prepared for thousands of fry, within a few weeks. Although I take crappy fish pics...I'll try to get some in the next week or two.
Also, I group spawn my piranha. I mentioned 18 breeders...not 9 pairs. I can tell M/F, but never actually counted how many M and how many F. They are split up into 3 seperate colonies. The two colonies I bought as proven breeders, haven't spawned yet. The younger, unproven RBs I got from a local club member, have been spawning twice a week. They never spawned before that, as they were overcrowded, and didn't have any spawning sites in the tank. I got lucky with those fish.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

yeah mine circle but not as much as just staying around the site


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## Fishnut2 (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks Noodles,
My female will hang out about 12" from the site, kinda watching. But the male rarely stops circling, for more then 10-15 seconds. I've also noticed that they are both very aggressive towards any egg removal attempts during the egg/wiggler stage. But once the fry are free-swimming, the parents don't care.


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