# Nitrite never 0



## dwono (Jan 27, 2007)

I have a 29g with a 5-inch Serrasalmus Eigenmanni.
Tank has been up & running for about a month now.
Nitrite level has never been zero since day one!
It's always between 0.3-0.8 mg/l.
Less than a week ago, I had trouble with planaria in the tank from overfeeding.
So I did a 70-80% water change for 3 days in a row (I know that's too much, but I don't want anymore planaria & what-not) & no more planaria.

I know that exposing a fish to high levels of nitrite over a long period of time is unhealthy & cause internal disease.
Should I add one of those Phos-X 3-in-1 Nitrite, Nitrate, & Phosphate remover?

Currently no plants in the tank & just gravel.
All other water params are normal.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

dwono said:


> I have a 29g with a 5-inch Serrasalmus Eigenmanni.
> Tank has been up & running for about a month now.
> Nitrite level has never been zero since day one!
> It's always between 0.3-0.8 mg/l.
> ...


by doing a 70-80 water it might have lower your nitrite by it also does damage in other areas by doing such a big water change....did you use some kind of water treater when you did the water changes such as PRIME thats the best one if you havent.


----------



## SAFETYpin (Feb 1, 2004)

dwono said:


> I have a 29g with a 5-inch Serrasalmus Eigenmanni.
> Tank has been up & running for about a month now.
> Nitrite level has never been zero since day one!
> It's always between 0.3-0.8 mg/l.
> ...


What kind of filtration do you have? If there isnt enough space for the bacteria to grow you could run into issues with ammonia or nitrite that never goes away. Either decrease the bio-load or up the bio-filtration. Your overfeeding could have been the source of the problem. Add a couple tbs of salt, and monitor your nitrite for the next couple weeks or so. If you still have nitrites you need more filtration IMO.


----------



## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

It sounds like your tank has never properly cycled.

Over feeding will cause excess ammonia and nitrites in the tank, creating poor water conditions. Huge water changes like you did damage the beneficial bacteria in the tank and often it takes a while for them to rebuild their numbers. Biofiltration sounds like it's lacking - add another filter with lots of space for biomedia - this will help. And give it time. With all the stuff the tank has been through it just needs some time to adjust. Cycling doesn't happen over night.

Was the tank cycled when you put the fish in?


----------



## dwono (Jan 27, 2007)

Thanks for the replies.
Since I'm going away for the weekend (hence no time to buy Prime water treatment), I'm going to use Hagen Phos-X 3-in-1 Phosphate, Nitrate, & Nitrite remover.
That's what I have on hand.
The tank was partially cycled, it housed a community before the Eigenmanni.
Right now using a Whisper power filter that came with the aquarium kit.
I know 70-80% water change was risky, but even before I did that water change the Nitrite level was never 0.
I always use a dechlorinator & biological filtration booster (Stress Zyme by API) when doing water changes.

With Nitrite still won't go down in the next couple of weeks, will buy another filter since that's what everyone's been saying.
Will update later.


----------



## Willham187 (Jan 15, 2007)

> Right now using a Whisper power filter that came with the aquarium kit.


IMO u need to up your filtration


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with what people are saying....with one exception. I dont see an issue with a lot of large water changes.


----------



## Willham187 (Jan 15, 2007)

Maybe try an emp 280 or a similar type hob filter


----------



## dwono (Jan 27, 2007)

I'm away for the weekend.
But I'll definitely check up on water param next week & see if the Nitrite is down after I used Hagen Phos-X Nitrite remover.
If not, I'll go buy another filter or a bigger filter altogether.

ps: these Whisper Filters that come with the aquarium kit are kind of weak .. don't cycle the water as much as the BioWheel.


----------



## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

An 80% water change is fine, and no use for prime, its junk.


----------



## dwono (Jan 27, 2007)

doctorvtec said:


> An 80% water change is fine, and no use for prime, its junk.


That's what I thought, too.
Even before I did such a drastic water change, the Nitrite level was not 0 either.
So, I didn't think it was the large water change that affected the Nitrite level.

You don't think a dechlorinator does any good? Because fresh tap water contains chlorine that can kill 'good' bacteria.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

dwono said:


> An 80% water change is fine, and no use for prime, its junk.


That's what I thought, too.
Even before I did such a drastic water change, the Nitrite level was not 0 either.
So, I didn't think it was the large water change that affected the Nitrite level.

You don't think a dechlorinator does any good? Because fresh tap water contains chlorine that can kill 'good' bacteria.
[/quote]
your right about the dechlorinator if the water isnt treated it could kill bacteria,dont listen to doctorvtec,he probably just puts in normal tap water







prime lowers ammonia, nitrite and nitrate......it worked for me when i had nitrate at 40 did a water change (25%)went down to 15ppm


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

bud......weiser said:


> your right about the dechlorinator if the water isnt treated it could kill bacteria,dont listen to doctorvtec,he probably just puts in normal tap water
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would be careful who you challenge about their knowledge of water chemistry.

If you water just contains chlorine....there is little need for a dechlorinator. Just the act of adding it to the tank will dissipate the majority of any chlorine..and there wont be enough left over to effect your bacteria. If your water has chloramine...then you would use a dechlorinator to break the bond of ammonia and chlorine. I have done 30% waterchanges with tap water containing chloramine and there was no effect on the fish or bacteria. I dont know if there is a threshold that where this would kill off your bacteria or harm your fish..so I wouldnt recommend it this with chloramine...but chlorine isnt stable enough to matter much.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> your right about the dechlorinator if the water isnt treated it could kill bacteria,dont listen to doctorvtec,he probably just puts in normal tap water
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would be careful who you challenge about their knowledge of water chemistry.

If you water just contains chlorine....there is little need for a dechlorinator. Just the act of adding it to the tank will dissipate the majority of any chlorine..and there wont be enough left over to effect your bacteria. If your water has chloramine...then you would use a dechlorinator to break the bond of ammonia and chlorine. I have done 30% waterchanges with tap water containing chloramine and there was no effect on the fish or bacteria. I dont know if there is a threshold that where this would kill off your bacteria or harm your fish..so I wouldnt recommend it this with chloramine...but chlorine isnt stable enough to matter much.
[/quote]
i check my tap water sometimes and its all ways at 0.50ammonia 0.25nitrite so if he didnt use prime then he would have to check the water every SINGLE time, and also i think i read on this site (F.A.Q).that you cant overdose on declorinator-------------''Author: MR HARLEY

It is not possible to overdose the tank with dechlorinator."and i dont think he wants to check his water every
single time.im not tryn to be a smart ass but i think my side is more safer no....


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I think you are assuming that Prime does everything it says it will. I dont know how it could possibly remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. It might detoxify ammonia and nitrites..but I doubt it will remove anything. 
Ammonia and nitrites are handled by the bacteria in your tank...and with the small quantities you are reading...it shouldnt be an issue. The ammonia is probably from the breakdown of chloramine in your water system...I would guess at least. I would say there is a point where you could overdose dechlorinator...but what that is I wouldnt know. Im not saying it is bad to use the stuff...what I am saying is that it might not be as necessary as people think...and I believe what dvtec was saying is that he doesnt like the product Prime. There are much cheaper alternatives that will remove chlorine from the water.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I think you are assuming that Prime does everything it says it will. I dont know how it could possibly remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. It might detoxify ammonia and nitrites..but I doubt it will remove anything.
> Ammonia and nitrites are handled by the bacteria in your tank...and with the small quantities you are reading...it shouldnt be an issue. The ammonia is probably from the breakdown of chloramine in your water system...I would guess at least. I would say there is a point where you could overdose dechlorinator...but what that is I wouldnt know. Im not saying it is bad to use the stuff...what I am saying is that it might not be as necessary as people think...and I believe what dvtec was saying is that he doesnt like the product Prime. There are much cheaper alternatives that will remove chlorine from the water.


oooh dont get me wrong i know where your comin from by what you say its just saves a person so much time and trouble just by useing a water treater and it doesnt harm any thing unless your a complete moron and you manage to find a way to overdose on a water treater and as for water treaters i recomend prime,ya it costs$$$ but 1ml-2ml of it treats huge bucket of water most other water treaters are less expensive but you have to use a LOT more of the product it just makes me feel better knowing that the water is safe,and i know it works because i did a couple of tests to make sure...all in all i will recommend this product to everybody by using this product you cant lose out you can only gain and it doesnt efect your aquarium in any bad way thats why i have to STRONGLY disagrie with dvtec







you have to understand where im coming from too....and also to say that prime is junk, i mean come on,have you used the product...i think thats horrible advice for all he knows the tap water he uses has a lot of ammonia nit..etc. and also untreated tap water could kill good bacteia if you do a heavy duty water change


----------



## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I think you are assuming that Prime does everything it says it will. *I dont know how it could possibly remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates*. It might detoxify ammonia and nitrites..but I doubt it will remove anything.


To further this point, a liquid additive will not remove NH4, NO2, or NO3 from your tank. It might speed up the conversation process of NH4 to NO2 to NO3 to N2, but it is not going to remove any of these simply by adding it to your tank. Thus, when nitrogen reaches the NO3 stage it will be used either by plants as nutrient intake, further broken down to N2 and dissipate from the tank at the water's surface, or removed via water changes. Of course, you could add NO3 removers but they simply absorb the NO3 and when you physically remove them from the tank, they are removed that way. Thus, I would be a little bit suspicious about a liquid agent stating that it would remove any of these.

Just a little bit more for your reading pleasure.........

When an organism dies, nitrogen is moved from plant or animal into the inorganic chemical ammonia by the process of bacterial decay. Ammonia is also produced by bacteria in the breakdown of protein. This process is called Mineralization and is the end result of the metabolism of food. However, ammonia is produced from both metabolism and mineralization. The decomposition (mineralization) process produces large quantities of ammonia (NH3) through the process of ammoniafication. Heterotrophic microbes utilize the organic compounds of decomposing matter as their carbon source. Ammonia (NH3) is the byproduct of this consumption. Ammonia, in its neutral state, exists as ammonium (NH4+).

Ammonia (NH4) is assimilated in more than one way. Plants (such as Hornwort) and algae can assimilate ammonia and ammonium directly for the biosynthesis. The remaining bulk of decomposed byproducts are utilized by bacteria in a process called nitrification. Ammonia does not last long in a healthy aquarium environment, fortunately. Nitrifying bacteria such as Nitrosomonas quickly break down ammonia into less toxic Nitrite (NO2). During this process, specific species of nitrifying bacteria strip the ammonium of its hydrogen molecules as an energy source. Oxygen molecules are then affixed to the stripped nitrogen, forming the oxide nitrite (NO2). *Another group of bacteria (Nitrobacter ) utilize the enzyme nitrite oxidase that is then responsible for converting nitrite into nitrate (NO3). This nitrate can either be used by plants as a nutrient source, or can be further broken down into nitrogen gas (N2) through the activity of anaerobic bacteria such as Pseudomonas .*

It should be noted, that without oxygen (nitrification is an oxidative process), none of this process can take place. It should also be noted that in recent studies the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter responsible Freshwater nitrification are NOT the same in saltwater.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

Coldfire said:


> I think you are assuming that Prime does everything it says it will. *I dont know how it could possibly remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates*. It might detoxify ammonia and nitrites..but I doubt it will remove anything.


To further this point, a liquid additive will not remove NH4, NO2, or NO3 from your tank. It might speed up the conversation process of NH4 to NO2 to NO3 to N2, but it is not going to remove any of these simply by adding it to your tank. Thus, when nitrogen reaches the NO3 stage it will be used either by plants as nutrient intake, further broken down to N2 and dissipate from the tank at the water's surface, or removed via water changes. Of course, you could add NO3 removers but they simply absorb the NO3 and when you physically remove them from the tank, they are removed that way. Thus, I would be a little bit suspicious about a liquid agent stating that it would remove any of these.

Just a little bit more for your reading pleasure.........

When an organism dies, nitrogen is moved from plant or animal into the inorganic chemical ammonia by the process of bacterial decay. Ammonia is also produced by bacteria in the breakdown of protein. This process is called Mineralization and is the end result of the metabolism of food. However, ammonia is produced from both metabolism and mineralization. The decomposition (mineralization) process produces large quantities of ammonia (NH3) through the process of ammoniafication. Heterotrophic microbes utilize the organic compounds of decomposing matter as their carbon source. Ammonia (NH3) is the byproduct of this consumption. Ammonia, in its neutral state, exists as ammonium (NH4+).

Ammonia (NH4) is assimilated in more than one way. Plants (such as Hornwort) and algae can assimilate ammonia and ammonium directly for the biosynthesis. The remaining bulk of decomposed byproducts are utilized by bacteria in a process called nitrification. Ammonia does not last long in a healthy aquarium environment, fortunately. Nitrifying bacteria such as Nitrosomonas quickly break down ammonia into less toxic Nitrite (NO2). During this process, specific species of nitrifying bacteria strip the ammonium of its hydrogen molecules as an energy source. Oxygen molecules are then affixed to the stripped nitrogen, forming the oxide nitrite (NO2). *Another group of bacteria (Nitrobacter ) utilize the enzyme nitrite oxidase that is then responsible for converting nitrite into nitrate (NO3). This nitrate can either be used by plants as a nutrient source, or can be further broken down into nitrogen gas (N2) through the activity of anaerobic bacteria such as Pseudomonas .*

It should be noted, that without oxygen (nitrification is an oxidative process), none of this process can take place. It should also be noted that in recent studies the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter responsible Freshwater nitrification are NOT the same in saltwater.
[/quote]
lol this is for tap water not direct dosage to the tank


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

bud......weiser said:


> lol this is for tap water not direct dosage to the tank


Water is water...you simply can reduce ammonia, nitrites or nitrates with a liquid additive that doesnt contain the bacteria that consumes it as part of the cycle.
IMO...water conditioner is water conditioner. In a properly maintained tank...the only thing you should need it for is to remove chlorine....and if you want to make a wise decision...go with a powder forum...you will save $$$$$$$$.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> lol this is for tap water not direct dosage to the tank


Water is water...you simply can reduce ammonia, nitrites or nitrates with a liquid additive that doesnt contain the bacteria that consumes it as part of the cycle.
IMO...water conditioner is water conditioner. In a properly maintained tank...the only thing you should need it for is to remove chlorine....and if you want to make a wise decision...go with a powder forum...you will save $$$$$$$$.
[/quote]
oh realy..i never even heard of a powder form..im guesing you can get it at any top store...can you tell me a little about it like name price that kind of stuff


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I dont know the name of it....I will have to check and see. You can pm Pat..he is the one that told me about it. You can order a tub of it for something like $40.00...and it will treat something like 28,000 gallons.


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> I dont know the name of it....I will have to check and see. You can pm Pat..he is the one that told me about it. You can order a tub of it for something like $40.00...and it will treat something like 28,000 gallons.


holy sh*t thats a lot i have to find that.....but please if you can ,can you go here and please help me with some questions its really makn me nervous i dont want my piranhas to die http://piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=149247


----------



## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

bud......weiser said:


> i check my tap water sometimes and its all ways at 0.50ammonia 0.25nitrite so if he didnt use prime then he would have to check the water every SINGLE time, and also i think i read on this site (F.A.Q).that you cant overdose on declorinator-------------''Author: *MR HARLEY*


I refuse to argue with someone who quotes Mr. Harley....


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

doctorvtec said:


> i check my tap water sometimes and its all ways at 0.50ammonia 0.25nitrite so if he didnt use prime then he would have to check the water every SINGLE time, and also i think i read on this site (F.A.Q).that you cant overdose on declorinator-------------''Author: *MR HARLEY*


I refuse to argue with someone who quotes Mr. Harley....
[/quote]
is that a bad thing or a good thing?and who is mr.harley


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> i check my tap water sometimes and its all ways at 0.50ammonia 0.25nitrite so if he didnt use prime then he would have to check the water every SINGLE time, and also i think i read on this site (F.A.Q).that you cant overdose on declorinator-------------''Author: *MR HARLEY*


I refuse to argue with someone who quotes Mr. Harley....
[/quote]


----------



## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

Grosse Gurke said:


> i check my tap water sometimes and its all ways at 0.50ammonia 0.25nitrite so if he didnt use prime then he would have to check the water every SINGLE time, and also i think i read on this site (F.A.Q).that you cant overdose on declorinator-------------''Author: *MR HARLEY*


I refuse to argue with someone who quotes Mr. Harley....
[/quote]








[/quote]
who the hell is mr.harley


----------

