# Just Got Another Red, Wild Or Captive Bred?



## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Hey guys I just got back home a few hours ago with my newly aquired red. While I was waiting for a fishroom working at BigAls to net my red I ran a few questions past him. I asked if the red I was getting was a captive bred specimen or wild caught, he told me it was a wild red belly and the shippment arrived a few days ago but his co-worker disagreed with him saying it was a captive bred. I waited 10 minutes for them to finish arguing them so I asked the manager about the where abouts of the collection of the fish in that tank, he paused for a sec but replied its hard tell but its most likely it could be a captive bred red belly. He also said it could be a wild red but he told me not to take his words as a 100% confirmation.

The fish looked stressed out to me but they were in pretty good condition compared to the 100% captive bred ones I bought a few months back. Although, these new guys dont have much colour but they do have more of a red eye than my captive bred ones. The worker said the colour should come back once the red gets comfortable to his new tank which Iam keeping him solo in.

I just finished accimilating him into the tank with the drip method and gave him a Hikari sinking pellet which he inhaled in a second so that seems to be a good sign that he will accept non-live since all the store fed was minnows. He is still stressed a bit but I provided some cover for him, with a stone cave so he could chill for a while. I will have the the pics up soon, hes very squared looking and has that bull dog shaped head as well as a ton of black spots.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

too long to read

but from what i did read all i have to say will be youll neer know if its captive or wild unless you got te red yourself


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

LOL P-Freak, you should see my high school essays. My teacher flamed me in front of the class saying it took him so long to read and mark the damb thing he missed out on family night. Got a 98% percent on that paper though, 4 pages back and front printed. The subject target was concerning youth and drugs.


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

come on sylar. Bro you've been around here long enough to be able to know you cant distinguish a wild red from a captive bred red. It doesnt matter if its wild or not I guarantee you couldnt tell any behavioral differences.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

That too ^^^


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Dolphinswin said:


> come on sylar. Bro you've been around here long enough to be able to know you cant distinguish a wild red from a captive bred red. It doesnt matter if its wild or not I guarantee you couldnt tell any behavioral differences.


I know im just trying to get other opinions to see what they think. I do agree with your second point though, that theres not really alot of ways of telling from their behaviour. My captive reds I raised since they were the size of a penny are the most aggressive reds I've to date, they finger chase, body chase and even attack larger fish 3 times their size and attack their reflection. The thing that has me mind boggled is the fact that they havent killed each other yet even after they have grown 4 times their original size.


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

Sylar_92 said:


> come on sylar. Bro you've been around here long enough to be able to know you cant distinguish a wild red from a captive bred red. It doesnt matter if its wild or not I guarantee you couldnt tell any behavioral differences.


I know im just trying to get other opinions to see what they think. I do agree with your second point though, that theres not really alot of ways of telling from their behaviour. My captive reds I raised since they were the size of a penny are the most aggressive reds I've to date, they finger chase, body chase and even attack larger fish 3 times their size and attack their reflection. The thing that has me mind boggled is the fact that they havent killed each other yet even after they have grown 4 times their original size.
[/quote]
gotcha all im trying to say is there is no way to tell differences between wild reds and captive, looks wise. You might see a slight oh so slight change in behavior, but i doubt it. I guess I just don't bite the bait on those so called WILD reds or those DIAMOND rhoms. I say a rhom is a rhom, a rbp is a rbp.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Only really way you called say a red is wild is if its a ternetzi or super red ... y?

Well ofcourse 1 ternetzi is yellow 2 super reds are a bit more concaved and well really red but behavior wise is all upto the fish's personslity IMO


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## Dolphinswin (Jun 26, 2010)

piranha-freak101 said:


> Only really way you called say a red is wild is if its a ternetzi or super red ... y?
> 
> Well ofcourse 1 ternetzi is yellow 2 super reds are a bit more concaved and well really red but behavior wise is all upto the fish's personslity IMO


Agree with terns. I also would pay no extra money for these so called 'super' reds either... dont believe it.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Alright I see what you guys are saying about the terns and super reds, Thanks for the replies I appreciate it.


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## balluupnetme (Oct 23, 2006)

Man, wild reds are frickin nice can't wait to see some pics


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

Its proby captive bred... How much was it and what size is it?


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Its proby captive bred... How much was it and what size is it?


It is 3.5" and its cost about $15. My other reds attempted to eat him when I put the bag in their tank so Iam going to keep him solo for now til he gets a bit bigger.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

I would bet money that its a captive then. Thats a common price.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

balluupnetme said:


> Man, wild reds are frickin nice can't wait to see some pics


I hope its a wild one, but after a while of keeping it you sort of just look at it like any other red belly captive bred or not. I'll have a pic up soon of the new guy beside my self raised ones.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Alright heres The pics, I did my best to get them to stay still had to take my self raised one out of the tank though. The ones in the tank only stayed semi still when I made them finger chase as you can see. The last pic is the one I just bought, he's a bit stressed still and pale.


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Alright the first 2 pics are my newly aquired red, the two last pics are of the red I kept talking with a flame coming down to the lateral line.


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

For $15 it was almost certainly captive bred. Normally wild reds are way more then that. Unless you have some indisputable proof like a collection point I'm going with domestic. I suppose if you might be able to get a little bit of an idea when it gets bigger based on coloration, and flames and such but even that's a guess


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

TheSpaz13 said:


> For $15 it was almost certainly captive bred. Normally wild reds are way more then that. Unless you have some indisputable proof like a collection point I'm going with domestic. I suppose if you might be able to get a little bit of an idea when it gets bigger based on coloration, and flames and such but even that's a guess


Alright, What do you think about the last 2 pics of my domestic red belly with the high flame? Will it develope more flames like the one that went all the way from the stomach to the dorsal fin?


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

How big is he? He looks like hes still pretty small but he's showing good coloration, its possible but only time will tell


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

Big ALS north york have wild reds for 39.99. About 3". I was there today. They also have a bunch of black piranhas for 299.99 and up. And a diamond rhom for 199.99. The wild reds were a lot more active than the domestic bred reds. Also look more aggressive. I was tin king about getting one and throwing it in my tank of 21 domestic reds but something told me the wild red would cause havoc on my docile reds community tank especially since the tank temp is at 84 degrees all the time.

There was only 3 left so hurry if you want wild caught Ps.

I am going back tomorrow to ask the manager to order me some Macs


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Really?! Damb thanks for the update, I'll drop down there tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for the tip man


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

No problem man I am on a big ALS tour for the next few days looking for juvenile serras. Preferably macs or spilos from Argentina. Since shipping them from shark aquarium has too much taxes and fees to make it worth my while. But they do have terns and a bunch of other wild caught Ps. I believe the terns are $39.99


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

Don't forget though, there's a lot that goes into the aggression level of a fish then this. Temp, deco, size, number, water conditions...everything. They are PROBABLY going to be more aggressive but that's a pretty big generalization, I would ask and get info on collection points and such


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

honestly who cares if its wild or not!









Its just a red people ust cause it may be "wild" dosnt mean anything, they're all the same


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

TheSpaz13 said:


> Don't forget though, there's a lot that goes into the aggression level of a fish then this. Temp, deco, size, number, water conditions...everything. They are PROBABLY going to be more aggressive but that's a pretty big generalization, I would ask and get info on collection points and such


Yeah I notice that alot recently, My orginal red bellys had their tank decorated to suit their natural enviornment and they hid most of the time and were very skiddish even after 5 months. My new reds which I got 3 months ago are kept in a empty tank with only a blackedout background and black gravel, they seem to have adjusted to me and dont even flinch when I pass by. Now they finger and body chase. Just today I was trying to train my new red, so I did the same thing as my other tank by leaving it empty except the substrate and background and the solo red actually attempted to finger chase. I had him finger chase for about 30 seconds then he lost interest. I have him in a 35gallon with my 3" red wolf fish and they seem to tolerate each other for now, they even share food and sleep beside eachother. the wolf fish stays in the cave I put in the tank for the majority of the day but comes out in the afternoon to eat and swim around, The red on the other hand just stays by the heater most of the day but I know he will slowly get use to the tank and then swim where he wants. I do want to grab a few terns though once i set up the 90gallon which I should be getting back in a few months.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

Wild P's have stronger jaws.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Wild P's have stronger jaws.


Well, that's not true... i've seen captive bred Ps with massive jaws and wild caught with weaker jaws... it depends on many factors (including feeding habits and genes) so that's not a rule at all...


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I just found out today the red I bought a few days back is wild and he had a tank mate that is also wild caught. His red eye is much more defined and his red color is much deeper an covers more area. He is not as scared as my other two and swims around a lot more. The other two follow him now an do whatever he does. There red color seems to have faded out since I put him in though not sure why. I thought he was a cariba when I first got him. I called the pet store I got it from talked to the manager and he said they are wild caught which is why I paid 50 for the fish. The supplyer he gets them from had went on a trip brought back some weird catfish an some rbp, he was originally going to keep the two rbp that were left but decided to go ahead and part with them. I thought it was super cool to know my fish was from the homeland lol


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

FACEPALM


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Collection point ?


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

He said it was caught near angas south america. Which is just south of Peru? I'm not sure on where it actually is, I'm not to familiar with South America. I want to go buy the other one so bad, but I want Terns, an don't have my bigger tank yet. Not sure how many juvies I can get in a 55g an for how long


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Captive bred piranhas came from the wild at one point, they don't just magically get weaker jaws and worse colour, thats diet wild reds eat natural diets get your reds on pellet food and watch your reds have flames that extend beyond eh lateral line. Not to mention most "wild reds" are just labeled as wild to get an extra 20 a pop


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I can't get mine to eat pellets or none living food. Even pieces of fish.. nothing... I have been trying even if I let them go on the food they won't eat anything unless its moving.. Whichs stinks i hear goldfish are very bad for you piranha. On the verifying I asked Dave to let me contact the person that caught these wild an he said if he gave me the contact info I would buy from that guy instead. So he is going to email the guy with me copied. I won't be able to see his email address though :/ So the email from the guy catching it will be better evidence for me. Enough actually, its like everyone has already said, he isn't much different then captive ones. He is just more outgoing. I'm very happy with my fish. Wish I could get the other two to get the deep colors or even color back like they were. their heads are still clear too the gray or silver pigment is gone and you can almost see thru their skin. It's starting to bother me


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Look at the difference

The first one you can see my wild one with the captive. the second one my two captives are up front an the wild is in the back, kinda hard to see though. the last one is the other two following the wild one around which they seem to start the day I put him in the tank. Like he took over the leader role. funny enough the second in line is my smallest one.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Wait a year they will all look the same, piranhas can change colours depending on mood, breeding, stress and overall health the major difference from wild to captive is body shape and that is based of collection point. Wild reds are a gimik sure some may be wild but given a captive diet and confined to a fish tank they will look like any other "captive bred red". Starve your piranhas they will take pellets, might take a week or two or more, I only feed pellets hikari pellets both hikari gold and hikari carnivore both sinking and floating, its halarious to watch them fenzy over floating if one makes a big splash they think something is trying to grab em like a bird or something and they all dart right down to the bottom in unison.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I have that hikari, I was told it's bad and doesnt have anything healthy for my fish. So it's not being used. i got it for my cichlids. I have been trying brine shrimp an blood worms, fish fillet everything. Right now I'm on day 4 of no live food an still no eating anything i put in. Hopefully they come around.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

Who told you this, i have been raising asian arowanas, piranhas and a countless other fish on them for the past 6 years with impeccable colour and health, take a look at the ingredients of the hikari pellets


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Ok i'll use them, I was just worried there was nothing good in it lol. I wouldn't be able to tell if they were good by ingredients. lol I don't know enough about that stuff yet.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Just be patient, eventually they will eat whatever you want... just offer the new food every day (remove after 5 minutes if they don't eat it)... personally i feed my Ps fish fillets and shrimp as staple but there is nothing wrong with pellets...


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

RedBelly11 said:


> Ok i'll use them, I was just worried there was nothing good in it lol. I wouldn't be able to tell if they were good by ingredients. lol I don't know enough about that stuff yet.


haha its chalked full of vitamins, its similar stuff to what they feed in salmon farms


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

got back from the Big Als today and recorded the videos of all their wild stock the just recieved. the first is the group of wild reds i was refering to earlier sylar, the second is the captive bred you can see the personality difference in the group, also the wild ones finger chased earlier but i couldnt get them to repeat the process on camera... all fish were labeled wild caught Brazil to my recollection... 





captive bred....
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7IN19ckW8[/media]

Black piranha
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp1q1JgMMVs[/media]

Serrasalmus eigenmanni
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQGoqce0ZnM[/media]

group of black piranhas
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnrgN_VK7xM[/media]

a few more

[
Black Diamond Piranha
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8tgTwV9_is[/media]

Black Diamond Set
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sxESCk336U[/media]

Gold Piranha???
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ao9oAJH6G8
i am curious to the actual ID of this piranha... one store clerk said it was a rhom another clerk disagreed with him.. any clue. i will also post in the ID section...


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

its a mac


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

is it the mac that maxes out at 8 inches or the one that makes it to 12 inches


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

my eyes aint so great but looks like the larger one to me


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

how big were those rhoms and what big als, think i might grab one of those monsters


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

big als North york. from eye balling they looked +11" maybe more...


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

Co. Caines said:


> big als North york. from eye balling they looked +11" maybe more...


Thanks for posting the vids up, gave me a better picture how they looked like. The wild reds are more active but they seem to have less colour with the exception of one of them, they also have huge jaws which is crazy. I couldnt drop by there yesterday but I'll try today. nice vids by the way


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Nice videos, thanks for sharing!


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

Sylar_92 said:


> big als North york. from eye balling they looked +11" maybe more...


Thanks for posting the vids up, gave me a better picture how they looked like. The wild reds are more active but they seem to have less colour with the exception of one of them, they also have huge jaws which is crazy. I couldnt drop by there yesterday but I'll try today. nice vids by the way








[/quote]

Yea I am going back again today to pick up that wild Mac they have. I am still contemplating wether to get that wild red to add to my shoal to influence my captive breeds. U know peer press is a b**ch... Or might throw the Mac in to get my Ps in check so they no longer get bullied by their convict dinner.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Get the Eigenmanni too! Looks like a yellow; although, there is no humeral spot...


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## Sylar_92 (Dec 15, 2010)

lol, you still havent gotten rid of the convict? How big is it compared to your reds?


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

Smoke said:


> Get the Eigenmanni too! Looks like a yellow; although, there is no humeral spot...


Lol that's a big fish, I woud have to kick out my Rbp shoal for him to live comfortably or throw him in there and let him wipe out the shoal. I rather not do either. Dog fighting is illegal I wonder if fish fighting is too? Lol


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

Sylar_92 said:


> lol, you still havent gotten rid of the convict? How big is it compared to your reds?


The male convict is 1/4 the size of my reds, the female is 1/5. They now own half of my 180g. It's starting the annoy me. The turned all 21ps and 15 exxodons into their B**ch. When people come over and ask about it I just tell them my Ps got manners and respect the convicts and don't want to orphan the fry.

But i am at the point of just throwing in an aggressive fish to clean house. Lol


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

Sylar_92 said:


> big als North york. from eye balling they looked +11" maybe more...


Thanks for posting the vids up, gave me a better picture how they looked like. The wild reds are more active but they seem to have less colour with the exception of one of them, they also have huge jaws which is crazy. I couldnt drop by there yesterday but I'll try today. nice vids by the way








[/quote]

Just got back from big ALS and picked up the gold Mac. Andy wasn't there so u didn't get a deal on it. But nonetheless they only have 2 wild reds left. The 2 bigger ones in the video I posted.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Just like I was telling you guys about my wild. His red is deeper an his jaws bigger. He is much more active and not as scared as my captive ones. Also his red eye is more defined. Putting him in with my captive's has brought them alive. They follow him everywhere now and the wild still eats like a wild P would. Chase it down an devour it, who knows when food will come next. Funny enough my captives are picking this same style up an they never did that stuff before. I'm really glad I got him an he has brought my stock to life.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Co. Caines said:


> Get the Eigenmanni too! Looks like a yellow; although, there is no humeral spot...


Lol that's a big fish, I woud have to kick out my Rbp shoal for him to live comfortably or throw him in there and let him wipe out the shoal. I rather not do either. Dog fighting is illegal I wonder if fish fighting is too? Lol
[/quote]

They get 9"... it's not that big of a fish... I was just saying


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## Co. Caines (Feb 14, 2011)

RedBelly11 said:


> Get the Eigenmanni too! Looks like a yellow; although, there is no humeral spot...


Lol that's a big fish, I woud have to kick out my Rbp shoal for him to live comfortably or throw him in there and let him wipe out the shoal. I rather not do either. Dog fighting is illegal I wonder if fish fighting is too? Lol
[/quote]

They get 9"... it's not that big of a fish... I was just saying








[/quote]

9" is 5" larger than my largest fish. It's not a fish I would try to Cohab either.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I posted pictures of my fish early in this topic. I think they are on page two. All of mine are about the same size, i guess you could say the wild is the biggest. He certainly brought life to my tank though!


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