# New tank with hight ammonia levels



## matt748 (May 25, 2008)

I have just set up a new tank of 75 uk gallons. i have put in 10 no 2.5 inch red bellied piranhas but my water readings are now showing quite high ammonia levels.
i have completed a 25 % water change andded some ammo lock and filter cycle products to try to calm things down a little.
I know i should have fully cycled the tank longer but the fish were going to be sold on if i didn't take them straight away.
Is there anything else i can do to the tank or shall i stick with what i am doing.

Any help will be appreciated.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

You need to do many, many more water changes.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

In addition to what Childog suggested add amonia remover chips to your filters and maybe switch to Seachem Prime water conditioner if you are not already using it. Prime removes amonia, nitrates and nitrites from the water.


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## matt748 (May 25, 2008)

I have just added a load of media from an existing mature filter to try to sort the cycle out.

Do you think this wll help????


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

matt748 said:


> I have just added a load of media from an existing mature filter to try to sort the cycle out.
> 
> Do you think this wll help????


I think so because the existing bacteria in the media will help break down the amonia that is present at the moment, I've also heard that depending on how far into the cycle your tank is it might actually kill the bacteria in the mature media or at least some of it but it is definately worth a try.


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

Ja said:


> I have just added a load of media from an existing mature filter to try to sort the cycle out.
> 
> Do you think this wll help????


Yes, adding media from an established tank will go a long way towards cycling your new aquarium.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

Bullsnake said:


> I have just added a load of media from an existing mature filter to try to sort the cycle out.
> 
> Do you think this wll help????


Yes, adding media from an established tank will go a long way towards cycling your new aquarium.
[/quote]
Can't they get into trouble for false claims and or advertising?


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

Ja said:


> Can't they get into trouble for false claims and or advertising?


I don't know enough about it to say.

Nitrite is a lethal poison to fish. As I understand it, the only thing that can be done to reduce the toxicity of nitrite is the addition of salt to the water. 
The Cl- anions in NaCl compete with the NO2- for uptake into the fishes' body through their gills.

Perhaps it's the NaCl formed when the dechlorinators react with the Chlorine (Cl2) that they are referring to? I don't know.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

Throwing the 'mature filter on there will help alot, might even take care of things completely. For now, keep doing water changes (at least 25% a day) till your ammonia drops to zero and stays there.
By the way, that is WAY too many Reds for a 75. You're going to need to get rid of some of them or upgrade to a 150g within a month or two, or your going to see major losses.


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

Piranha Dan said:


> By the way, that is WAY too many Reds for a 75. You're going to need to get rid of some of them or upgrade to a 150g within a month or two, or your going to see major losses.


Seriously. I think the rule of thumb is 1 red per 20 gallons (3 to a 55 max). 
10 grown-up reds will need about 200 gallons.

If I worked at a pet store, I wouldn't let somebody leave with 10 piranha to throw in a new, uncycled aquarium.


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## matt748 (May 25, 2008)

Thanks for the info guys.
I'll keep the water changes going and hopefully all will settle down.
I never realised that so few reds could be kept together without a huge tank.
The store said i should expect to lose a couple through fighting but at what point should i scale things down (Get rid of a few)?????????
How many should i keep and shall i just take the others to my local fish shop???????

The are about 2.5 - 3 inch max at the minute.


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## rickstsi (Apr 6, 2007)

matt748 said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> I'll keep the water changes going and hopefully all will settle down.
> I never realised that so few reds could be kept together without a huge tank.
> The store said i should expect to lose a couple through fighting but at what point should i scale things down (Get rid of a few)?????????
> ...


I kept 6 In a 55g till they were about 5" and then moved them to a 125g.


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

rickstsi said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> I'll keep the water changes going and hopefully all will settle down.
> I never realised that so few reds could be kept together without a huge tank.
> The store said i should expect to lose a couple through fighting but at what point should i scale things down (Get rid of a few)?????????
> ...


I kept 6 In a 55g till they were about 5" and then moved them to a 125g.
[/quote]
Even five in a 125g is going to be a little cramped in a short while.


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

Ja said:


> I kept 6 In a 55g till they were about 5" and then moved them to a 125g.


Even five in a 125g is going to be a little cramped in a short while.
[/quote]

Using the one mature fish per 20 gallons rule, theoretically, 125 gallons should be enough for 6 fish.

I've never kept a shoal that big, so I don't know how'll they'll interact.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

matt748 said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> I'll keep the water changes going and hopefully all will settle down.
> I never realised that so few reds could be kept together without a huge tank.
> The store said i should expect to lose a couple through fighting but at what point should i scale things down (Get rid of a few)?????????
> ...


Water changes will help alot. Remember to keep them going AFTER the ammonia stabilizes too, or your next problem will be nitrate buildup and algae blooms. Reds produce a larger amount of waste then other fish, and if you don't keep your water parameters in check things can go south fast.
They'll probably be ok in there for a month or two, but even in that time frame they're going to start beating on each other. One of the major reasons you need such a big tank for Reds is that they're territorial and opportunistic as hell. If they fight and one is badly hurt, the others will immediately see the weakness and he'll go from tank-mate to food in an instant.
As for how many to keep, that depends on wheather you are going to stay with the 55 or upgrade (soon) to a larger tank. If you're staying with the 55, I wouldn't try anything more then 1. In case you don't know, these guys not only grow fast, they grow pretty big too (usually into the 8-10" range), and even 1 in a 55 will be cramped. The 20 gallons/per fish rule worked out pretty good for me, I have (6) Reds in the 4"-7" range (damn runt just won't grow lol) and they do fine in my 120.


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## matt748 (May 25, 2008)

WOW i sure am learning a lot fast on here!!!!!!!

I thought i would see how things go/grow over the next few weeks and take it from there.
Iv'e seen a lot of videos on youtube etc with people with similar sze taknks an a similar amountof fish. 
Do you think they all have had similar dilema's as me and jus stuck wih what thy have??
I really cant afford to go any bigger than what i have, i guess i'll have to downscale my school of reds soon, i am already growing attached to them though...........

I have posted some pics on the photo forum, please check them out and let me know what you guys think????


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

matt748 said:


> WOW i sure am learning a lot fast on here!!!!!!!
> 
> I thought i would see how things go/grow over the next few weeks and take it from there.
> Iv'e seen a lot of videos on youtube etc with people with similar sze taknks an a similar amountof fish.
> ...


Just because you see people doing it doesn't make it a good idea. I ended up with 6 Reds in a 29 because I bought them on a whim and didn't do any research first, then was stupid enough to believe the guy who sold them to me who said "Oh yea, they'll be fine in there, they only grow to the size of the aquarium". 
The maintenance was a pain in the ass. I had to do water changes and vacuum the gravel every other day to keep my parameters in check, and towards the end (before I upgraded to a 120) I was starting to have serious problems with aggression (fin nipping and the like).
If you really are getting attached to the little guys, and you want to properly care for them, you need to get a bigger tank or find new homes for most of them. Putting that many Reds in that small an aquarium is kind of like buying a Golden Retriever and keeping it locked in a closet 24 hours a day. Yea, it'll survive, but it won't be very happy.


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## jsadlersos (Mar 11, 2008)

I think all advise is good here. I use prime religously, and for an uncycled aquarium it won't hurt. Also be slim on the feedings until the cycle is complete so you are not adding more ammonia than is necessary, better underfed than death by ammonia burn! On the subject of tank size I've got a decent sized shoal in a 125 and have no probs.......however I do have a pretty serious filtration system to handle that kind of waste production. As far as the interaction I personally believe large shoals make the Pygo piranhas more comfortable, providing you can keep up with the poop.


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## Ahmed (Jun 23, 2007)

I have 12 RBP's between 4 and 6 inches in a 200G tank, and I still think its a little cramped. Thats why i'm setting up my 55G tank to house a couple at most.


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