# Russias at war with Georgia



## Avatar~God (Oct 21, 2004)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08...etia/index.html

Anyone hear much about this? I came home and saw this on the news today and im surprised no one posted anything about this yet


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

So, who threw the first rock to start all this?

The internet news reports arent exactly giving crystal clear information on what and why it started.

One site will tell it one way and another will tell it another.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Sounds like Georgia wanted to keep its territory and Russia stepped in...but I'll bet I hear it both ways again by the end of tonight...


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> Sounds like Georgia wanted to keep its territory and Russia stepped in...but I'll bet I hear it both ways again by the end of tonight...


Well, its not yet clear to me if South Ossetia was ruled by Georgia or Russia. But Ive read somewhere that the majority in South Ossetia hold Russian citizenship and are loyal to Russia. Then, the President of Georgia decided to surprise everyone by invading it. Putin was at the Olympics and the whole world was focused on it as well. So, my reasoning tells me, Georgia pulled a sneaky one there. Naturally, Russia intervened because (from what I understand), Russia governs South Ossetia. Then as expected, the Russian military kicked the ass of Georgia and is now pushing into that tiny POS patch of grass. Now, Georgia is on the defensive and is seeking the support and sympathies of the whole world.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Doktordet said:


> Sounds like Georgia wanted to keep its territory and Russia stepped in...but I'll bet I hear it both ways again by the end of tonight...


Well, its not yet clear to me if South Ossetia was ruled by Georgia or Russia. But Ive read somewhere that the majority in South Ossetia hold Russian citizenship and are loyal to Russia. Then, the President of Georgia decided to surprise everyone by invading it. Putin was at the Olympics and the whole world was focused on it as well. So, my reasoning tells me, Georgia pulled a sneaky one there. Naturally, Russia intervened because (from what I understand), Russia governs South Ossetia. Then as expected, the Russian military kicked the ass of Georgia and is now pushing into that tiny POS patch of grass. Now, Georgia is on the defensive and is seeking the support and sympathies of the whole world.






















[/quote]

One of the Ossetias is part of Georgia, and the other is part of Russia. The Georgian one wants to be united with the Russian one as part of Russia, but Russia does not govern the breakaway region...Georgia does. I think Russia was right to keep them out of the little republic, but destroying Georgia seems a bit much.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

ok. thanks for setting the record straight about the Ossetias. IMO, Georgia deserves to be given a strong lesson for being an ass and apparently, it is getting one now.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Doktordet said:


> ok. thanks for setting the record straight about the Ossetias. IMO, Georgia deserves to be given a strong lesson for being an ass and apparently, it is getting one now.


Is Russia really the one to be giving the lesson? *cough*Dagestan*cough* *cough*Chechnya*cough*


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> ok. thanks for setting the record straight about the Ossetias. IMO, Georgia deserves to be given a strong lesson for being an ass and apparently, it is getting one now.


Is Russia really the one to be giving the lesson? *cough*Dagestan*cough* *cough*Chechnya*cough*
[/quote]

thats the way i see it.







( well put )


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Tensions have been mounting for years, it was just a few months ago that a Russian aircraft shot down a Georgian UAV over georgian airspace. But Georgia provoked this particular incident by ordering a full scale artillery bombardment of the south ossetian capital, reportedly leveling most of the city.


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Boobah said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..


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## mike123 (Jul 17, 2006)

let russia have it, we only need 49 states..............


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

mike123 said:


> let russia have it, we only need 49 states..............










someone quote this...omfg


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## mike123 (Jul 17, 2006)

ICEE said:


> let russia have it, we only need 49 states..............










someone quote this...omfg








[/quote]
im glad someone appreciates my humor


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2008)

mori0174 said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Agreed.

How can the UN do anything if it is one of the security council members involved?


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

The fact is, South Ossetia won Independence back in the early '90s from a war with Georgia and have been handling their affairs on their own ever since. Now, along the way the South Ossetians have also established warm relations with Moscow. In fact, the majority of their citizens possess (and have been continued to be given) Russian passports. Eventually, South Ossetia wants to be ruled by Russia. They want to be under Russian rule.

Now here comes the problem. Georgia doesnt want that to happen. In fact, they are still bitter over losing out on the war with South Ossetia that their prick president uses the occasion of the Olympics to attack South Ossetia.

Russia comes to the aid of South Ossetia. Russia kicks the ass of Georgian forces and gives them a dose of their own medicine.

Georgia's president goes on the air and appeals for international intervention (read: HELP!) because of the big 'ol mighty Russian aggression. Because Russia is invading his tiny country and its wrong for any country to do that to another! *







*

Our dear and brilliant president conducts a press conference in Beijing and "urges" Russia to stop beating the crap out of Georgia.

Now, it looks like Washington is trying to distort the facts by making it seem that Russia is the bad guy by invading another country.

Wow! Such hypocrisy! When US forces drove off the Iraqis under Saddam from Kuwait, they didnt just stop at the border. Eventually, the US invaded Iraq!

So where does this all bring us to? hmmmmmmmmm.......


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

mori0174 said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Enlighten me. From what Ive seen, the UN could never say no to the US.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2008)

The UN said no to the US in Afghanistan and Iraq...


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

But they let it slide anyways....


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Interesting read:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080809/wl_t...eachedinossetia


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## greenmonkey51 (Aug 16, 2004)

The UN is a joke, and if we had any balls we'd kick them out of NYC. To us Russia is the bad guy. Georgia is our ally and we need to back them. That doesn't mean direct help, but arm's and money.


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## Avatar~God (Oct 21, 2004)

greenmonkey51 said:


> The UN is a joke, and if we had any balls we'd kick them out of NYC. To us Russia is the bad guy. Georgia is our ally and we need to back them. That doesn't mean direct help, but arm's and money.


Georgia dug their selfs in this hole and they need to find a way out other then asking U.S for help. The last thing we need right now is to go to war with Russia, I saw on the news if that were to take place that it could be the start of WW3.


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## greenmonkey51 (Aug 16, 2004)

We're not going to war with Russia. A lot of this is political chess and has mostly to do with NATO


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Enlighten me. From what Ive seen, the UN could never say no to the US.
[/quote]

Um....don't you remember that the US threatened to withdraw from the UN and focus on NATO because of their crappy policies? Of course, since the US is their largest contributor they stood to lose a lot.

In georgia's defense, its like California wanting to succeed from the US and having Mexico coming in to defend California. Personally, I think Russia's just taking advantage and using this to regain control of the area.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

diddye said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Enlighten me. From what Ive seen, the UN could never say no to the US.
[/quote]

Um....don't you remember that the US threatened to withdraw from the UN and focus on NATO because of their crappy policies? Of course, since the US is their largest contributor they stood to lose a lot.

In georgia's defense, its like California wanting to succeed from the US and having Mexico coming in to defend California. Personally, I think Russia's just taking advantage and using this to regain control of the area.
[/quote]

Thats the problem with the UN. If the US doesnt get to have things done its way, the US throws a childish tantrum like a spoiled brat and the UN just cant say no and grants it anyway or looks the other way.

As far as Georgia is concerned, their invasion of South Ossetia was foul. Georgia was warned by the UN (including the USA) not to attack. But they did it anyways. Of course Russia will come to the aid of their ally. Whether Russia is taking advantage of this or not, were not exactly sure. It may seem so because our American minds have been conditioned to view Russia as the bad guy right out of the Cold War. And i wouldnt be surprised if the Russians also held a similar opinion about our country as far as Geopolitics are concerned. For whatever its worth, Im quite satisfied that someone's stepped up to the plate and give the firestarter a dose of his own medicine.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Enlighten me. From what Ive seen, the UN could never say no to the US.
[/quote]

Um....don't you remember that the US threatened to withdraw from the UN and focus on NATO because of their crappy policies? Of course, since the US is their largest contributor they stood to lose a lot.

In georgia's defense, its like California wanting to succeed from the US and having Mexico coming in to defend California. Personally, I think Russia's just taking advantage and using this to regain control of the area.
[/quote]

Thats the problem with the UN. If the US doesnt get to have things done its way, the US throws a childish tantrum like a spoiled brat and the UN just cant say no and grants it anyway or looks the other way.

As far as Georgia is concerned, their invasion of South Ossetia was foul. Georgia was warned by the UN (including the USA) not to attack. But they did it anyways. Of course Russia will come to the aid of their ally. Whether Russia is taking advantage of this or not, were not exactly sure. It may seem so because our American minds have been conditioned to view Russia as the bad guy right out of the Cold War. And i wouldnt be surprised if the Russians also held a similar opinion about our country as far as Geopolitics are concerned. For whatever its worth, Im quite satisfied that someone's stepped up to the plate and give the firestarter a dose of his own medicine.
[/quote]

Seriously? When exactly did the UN just grant the US anything it wanted? The only thing that ever happened were stupid stalemates because we have the US, England, and other western countries on one side and China, russia on the other. As far as Ossetia, that land is part of Georgia! The separatists were being attacked, not Russia. Georgia is a sovereign country and had every right to control their own country. If anything, Russia butted their heads into Georgia's business. Do you really trust Putin? From the Russian POV, I do see their concerns since they're being surrounded by western friendly countries.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

mori0174 said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Enlighten me. From what Ive seen, the UN could never say no to the US.
[/quote]

Um....don't you remember that the US threatened to withdraw from the UN and focus on NATO because of their crappy policies? Of course, since the US is their largest contributor they stood to lose a lot.

In georgia's defense, its like California wanting to succeed from the US and having Mexico coming in to defend California. Personally, I THINK RUSSIA'S JUST TAKING ADVANTAGE and using this to regain control of the area.
[/quote]

Kinda sorta like how the US always does? HUH?







Its called exploiting.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

baddfish said:


> sounds like georgia tried to be pushy and got their asses handed to them.


exactly. And if not Russia, then who would give the "punishment" to Georgia? UN sanctions would be useless since we all know the UN is the puppet of our good 'ole US of A, and we also know Georgia is buddies with the US.
[/quote]

The U.N. is the puppet of the US??? That isn't even close to accurate..
[/quote]

Enlighten me. From what Ive seen, the UN could never say no to the US.
[/quote]

Um....don't you remember that the US threatened to withdraw from the UN and focus on NATO because of their crappy policies? Of course, since the US is their largest contributor they stood to lose a lot.

In georgia's defense, its like California wanting to succeed from the US and having Mexico coming in to defend California. Personally, I THINK RUSSIA'S JUST TAKING ADVANTAGE and using this to regain control of the area.
[/quote]

Kinda sorta like how the US always does? HUH?







Its called exploiting.
[/quote]

Always? Really?


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

Absolutely!







This government will pay SEVERELY for ALL the BS it has done.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

greenmonkey51 said:


> The UN is a joke, and if we had any balls we'd kick them out of NYC. To us Russia is the bad guy. Georgia is our ally and we need to back them. *That doesn't mean direct help, but arm's and money*.


i hope to god that we stay out of this. 
we dont have arms or money to give them. 
we have already bit off more than we can chew in many other parts of the world, i hope to God we stay the fugg out of this conflict. 
let them handle it. 
i hope dubya just stays in china staring at chicks butts and stays the hell out of this.


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## CichlidAddict (Jul 1, 2005)

Nick G said:


> i hope dubya just stays in china staring at chicks butts and stays the hell out of this.


LOL - the "Bill Clinton" approach.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

DOes Georgia hold any nuclear weapons?


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## KrBjostad (Jun 21, 2008)

greenmonkey51 said:


> The UN is a joke, and if we had any balls we'd kick them out of NYC. To us Russia is the bad guy. Georgia is our ally and we need to back them. That doesn't mean direct help, but arm's and money.


We don't need to help them. We need to stop helping a lot of countries. It irritates me to no end how worried we are with everything outside our borders when we have our own problems we need to tend to.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

KrBjostad said:


> The UN is a joke, and if we had any balls we'd kick them out of NYC. To us Russia is the bad guy. Georgia is our ally and we need to back them. That doesn't mean direct help, but arm's and money.


WE DONT NEED TO HELP THEM. We need to stop helping a lot of countries. It irritates me to no end how worried we are with everything outside our borders when we have our own problems we need to tend to.
[/quote]

Helping? How do you figure? Its ALL done with GREEDY intentions. How do you (or anyone) fail to see this??? You are right. Help your people HERE in this country.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

KrBjostad said:


> The UN is a joke, and if we had any balls we'd kick them out of NYC. To us Russia is the bad guy. Georgia is our ally and we need to back them. That doesn't mean direct help, but arm's and money.


We don't need to help them. We need to stop *"helping"* a lot of countries. It irritates me to no end how worried we are with everything outside our borders when we have our own problems we need to tend to.
[/quote]

fixed


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

why dont the world get along,, everyone knows its gonna end in war so why dont they chill out,,, peace hippy sign to the world,,,,BURP


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

And...Russia says the offensive is over.

Translation: It's not.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

ChilDawg said:


> And...Russia says the offensive is over.
> 
> Translation: It's not.


haha, no sh*t... just ask the people of georgia


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

With Serbia always being tense region now the world has to be worried about Russia again, I feel sorry for eastern Europe, they're like the Middle East of Europe, there's always some conflict there somewhere.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2008)




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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Ahaha. AMAZING COMIC.

Love it.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.


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## maddyfish (Sep 16, 2006)

Head to head straight up fight we'd kick Russia's ass. Nukes? I bet alot of their stuff has fallen into disrepair. 
We should support Georgia. We should lend them anything they need up to and including strategic nuclear weapons. Free countries deserve the chance to be free.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

maddyfish said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.
[/quote]

How do reconcile that with reports from top US military brass that the soldiers are exhausted from over-extended tours, that it is taking a serious toll on both the armed services as well as their families?


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.
[/quote]

How do reconcile that with reports from top US military brass that the soldiers are exhausted from over-extended tours, that it is taking a serious toll on both the armed services as well as their families?
[/quote]

Well for one, the tours are now being cut from 15 to 12 months right? Also, why do the vast majority of them re-enlist? Tired or not, our military is the most advanced and best trained overall. That doesn't include the drop in violence in Iraq now thats the lowest in 5 yrs or so. Why else do you think the democrats have pushed the iraq war back in the topics for the election? Simply put, if push comes to shove, we'll be ok with russia as long as China doesn't get involved.

*Its funny though. Watching Generation Kill makes our military look like incompetent morons. I hope it isn't too accurate.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

diddye said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.
[/quote]

Russia lost to Afghanistan because Afghanistan had an influx of Arab mujahadeen fighters that were covertly supported, funded and equipped by the USA. Before the USA got involved the Russians were bulldozing their way through Afghanistan with few troubles. Last I heard, Russia wasn't supporting the Taliban against the USA when it invaded... so not quite the same thing.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Mettle said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.
[/quote]

Russia lost to Afghanistan because Afghanistan had an influx of Arab mujahadeen fighters that were covertly supported, funded and equipped by the USA. Before the USA got involved the Russians were bulldozing their way through Afghanistan with few troubles. Last I heard, Russia wasn't supporting the Taliban against the USA when it invaded... so not quite the same thing.
[/quote]

Um..maybe not Russia but did you forget that Iran and Syria did support fund and equip? Iraq also had an influx of fighters from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt etc. Also, dont forget that Iran is harboring Sadr as a negotiating tool and keeping him safe....so yes, same thing.


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## C0Rey (Jan 7, 2006)

the day russia and the us engage in full out war we are all fcuked!


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

diddye said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.
[/quote]

Russia lost to Afghanistan because Afghanistan had an influx of Arab mujahadeen fighters that were covertly supported, funded and equipped by the USA. Before the USA got involved the Russians were bulldozing their way through Afghanistan with few troubles. Last I heard, Russia wasn't supporting the Taliban against the USA when it invaded... so not quite the same thing.
[/quote]

Um..maybe not Russia but did you forget that Iran and Syria did support fund and equip? Iraq also had an influx of fighters from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt etc. Also, dont forget that Iran is harboring Sadr as a negotiating tool and keeping him safe....so yes, same thing.
[/quote]

Support of a world super power versus factions within various countries and a single 'rogue' nation. Yeah. Sounds exactly the same to me.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

C0Rey said:


> the day russia and the us engage in full out war we are all fcuked!


China is sure to support Russia when Russia and the US go at it. Although China has a huge economic stake with the USA, but if the armed conflict will lead to the occupation of the USA, I guess, economics wouldnt matter much.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Mettle said:


> Given the impact that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on our military, if the US and Russia would ever be involved in a military conflict any time soon, I dont think the US would stand a chance of prevailing against Russia. The Russians have employed a fast moving Nazi blitzkrieg type of operation in Georgia. Even top US military officials were reported to be surprised at the speed of Russian operations.


I disagree. We never had a problem militarily in Iraq/Afghanistan. It was unconventional warfare and rebuilding that we had a problem with. Remember "mission accomplished"? That was said when major military operations were over which was spun by the media as if we were done with everything. The US has no problem killing. We have difficulty rebuilding. If we were to fight Russia, we'd be fighting men in uniforms, not guerrillas. Also, don't forget that Russia LOST to Afghanistan alone. We didn't.
[/quote]

Russia lost to Afghanistan because Afghanistan had an influx of Arab mujahadeen fighters that were covertly supported, funded and equipped by the USA. Before the USA got involved the Russians were bulldozing their way through Afghanistan with few troubles. Last I heard, Russia wasn't supporting the Taliban against the USA when it invaded... so not quite the same thing.
[/quote]

Um..maybe not Russia but did you forget that Iran and Syria did support fund and equip? Iraq also had an influx of fighters from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt etc. Also, dont forget that Iran is harboring Sadr as a negotiating tool and keeping him safe....so yes, same thing.
[/quote]

Support of a world super power versus factions within various countries and a single 'rogue' nation. Yeah. Sounds exactly the same to me.
[/quote]

How does that matter? We still don't know exactly the extent of foreign nations supporting Iraq's insurgency. You dont think many nations support Iraq economically as well as with fighters? Do you think that Afghanistan ever had a group nearly as possible as Al queda? Pakistan may be "supporting" us while stabbing us in the back. Also, islamic radicalism is not nearly as strong as it is today. Lastly, we are the SOLE superpower in the world. As much as you want to spin how weak we are, we haven't lost many soldiers in Iraq. Population wise, we are only behind India and China. We are also economically superior to Russia. Your only point for Russia defeating us is that we're tired? I do partially agree with you that if a war were to happen now, we'd have a hard time, but I doubt that a true United states would be defeated(not that theres any chance of that happening anyways)


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Not many? try about more than 4000 killed and more 30000 wounded, and that is counting US troops alone.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Alexraptor said:


> Not many? try about more than 4000 killed and more 30000 wounded, and that is counting US troops alone.


I'm talking in terms of war. Look through history and put 4000 in perspective. 4000 vs 75,000 isn't small? Stop listening to the media and think about the REAL toll if there was a Russia vs US. That would be a lot more buddy.


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## scent troll (Apr 4, 2005)




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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

Ocellatus2000 said:


>


i dont get it. ????


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## Boobah (Jan 25, 2005)

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end

watch it, it will all make sense


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

thank you. it was very enlightening.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2008)

Canada supports USA.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

The US took the military option off the table. Sucks. It would have been interesting....


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Pretty stupid of Russia to basically be doing scorched earth to Georgia. They're basically destroying their infrastructure with no regard.


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## Avatar~God (Oct 21, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> The US took the military option off the table. Sucks. It would have been interesting....


Actaully thats a very smart idea to step away from useing our military to help Georgia, it wouldnt have been interesting at all seeing how it would be extreamly tragic.


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

maddyfish said:


> Head to head straight up fight we'd kick Russia's ass. Nukes? I bet alot of their stuff has fallen into disrepair.
> We should support Georgia. We should lend them anything they need up to and including strategic nuclear weapons. Free countries deserve the chance to be free.


Keep it REAL!!!









Yo! I don't know how many of you have been into this new conflict between Russia and the country of Georgia, but, allow me to give y'all a little 'heads up', so to speak. This administration is attempting to make Russia look like the 'bad guy', and maybe it is, in a way. Georgia was once a part of the now non-existent Soviet Union. A 'breakaway republic', along with many others. It got it's freedom after many decades of Soviet domination.

Now, Georgia has a problem with Ossetia who wants to breakaway from Georgia and establish its' own sovereign state. Just like Georgia did. The Georgian president (a lawyer educated here in the U.S., of course. Probably just a 'coincidence') said, 'No'. So he did something stupid and sent his Air Force to bomb towns and villages killing hundreds of civilians in Ossetia knowing full well that Russia would respond. He initiated the events that followed. Russia has over 2000 of its' citizens living in Ossetia. So now, Russia says it needs to go in and 'protect' its' people.

Sound familiar? The U.S. invaded the countries of Panama and Grenada (very small countries with Grenada being the size of Rockford, Illinois) under the same pretext. 'Protecting' our citizens who live there. Yet, that's OK. Well, the usual double standard appears to have lifted its' ugly head once again. Why do the majority of the American people have such a limited capacity to retain historical fact? Another thing (and you can look it up), John McCains' foreign policy adviser for his campaign was once a PAID lobbyist for the Georgian government.

He was paid big money by the Georgian government to lobby our Congress to pass legislation that would be in the economic interests of Georgia. The timing of Georgia's aggressive military action is also suspect. The Olympics, for one. AND....our electoral process is well underway with McCain behind Obama in most polls. What if McCains' foreign policy adviser (who is known to have maintained close ties with high level officials from the Georgian government) persuaded the Georgian president to manufacture a 'crisis' (knowing Russia, our old 'Cold War' enemy, would respond with force) and, in doing so, assist McCain in his run for president by appearing to be 'tough' on foreign policy issues?

Works well when you have the domestic population still in a state of fear. Fear can go a long way when molded and shaped 'properly'. There are rumors circulating on the World Wide Web that say just this. I was watching CNN and they showed McCain talking tough toward the Russians and, THEN, they showed Obama (who was vacationing in Hawaii) playing golf. It'll look like he doesn't care. That's taking a page out of Karl Roves' (former adviser to Bush since his days of running for Texas Governor) book! This is where 'perception management' techniques comes into play.

How easily we are led to believe a false reality. It appears to be working quite well. Especially, when you can manipulate the corporate media and string them along. Back in the 80s, there were over fifty corporations that owned our media (radio, TV, film, newspapers). NOW? Only seven. Our 'information' is coming from fewer and fewer sources. We have to be careful how we interpret this information. Knowledge of history helps alot. I've read about this happening before. The only difference is the methods are more advanced. Later.

P.S. The current president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, was 'educated' here in the U.S. and was a member of the Board of Directors of the oil company named Unocal. Funny how he was 'elected' president'. Since before 9/11, Unocal tried to persuade the Taliban to allow them the rights to build that pipeline. Taliban said NO. White House official, Richard Armitage, threatened them saying, 'We will bury you.' COINCIDENCE??? DONT THINK SO!!!


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## baddfish (Feb 7, 2003)

Here's a little something else. This is an EXCELLENT article. Very informative. No? Oh, well, keep eating the baloney. Fill up........you're going to need it! There will come a time when there will be nothing to eat! Or drink. It's written in concrete. Just a matter of time....that's all!

Washington's Hypocrisy

by Dmitry Rogozin

Global Research, August 18, 2008 
International Herald Tribune

The U.S. administration is trying to stick the label of 'bad guy' on Russia for exceeding the peacekeeping mandate and using 'disproportionate force' in the peace-enforcement operation in Georgia.

Maybe our American friends have gone blind and deaf at the same time. Mikheil Saakashvili, the president of Georgia, is known as a tough nationalist who didn't hide his intentions of forcing Ossetians and Abkhazians to live in his country.

We were hoping that the U.S. administration, which had displayed so much kindness and touching care for the Georgian leader, would be able to save him from the maniacal desire to deal with the small and disobedient peoples of the Caucasus.

Buta terrible thing happened. The dog bit its master. Saakashvili gave an order to wipe Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, from the face of earth.

The Georgian air force and artillery struck the sleeping town at midnight. More than 1,500 civilians perished in the very first hours of the shelling. At the same time, Georgian special forces shot 10 Russian peacekeepers who didn't expect such a betrayal from their Georgian colleagues.

The Kremlin attempted to reach Saakashvili, who was hiding, by phone. All this time the Russian Joint Staff forbid the surviving peacekeepers to open return fire. Finally our patience was exhausted. The Russian forces came to help Tskhinvaliand its civilian population.

In reply to the insulting criticism by President Bush that Russia used 'disproportionate force,' I'd like to cite some legal grounds for our response. Can shooting peacekeepers and the mass extermination of a civilian population - mainly Russian citizens - be regarded as hostile action against a state? Is it ground enough to use armed force in self-defense and to safeguard the security of these citizens?

Tbilisi concealed the scope of the humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia. Saakashvili's constant lies about the true state of affairs in Georgia were attempts to lay the fault at somebody else's door.

The Russian response is entirely justified and is consistent with both international law and the humanitarian goals of the peacekeeping operation conducted in South Ossetia. I will try to explain.

The Georgian aggression against South Ossetia, which came as a straight forward, wide-scale attack onthe Russian peacekeeping contingent - Russian armed forces legally based on the territory of Georgia - should be classified as an armed attack on the Russian Federation, giving grounds to fulfill the right to self-defense - the right of every state according to Article 51 of the UN Charter.

As for the defense of our citizens outside the country, the use of force to defend one's compatriots is traditionally regarded as a form of self-defense. Countries such as the United States, Britain, France and Israel have at numerous times resorted to the use of armed force to defend their citizens outside national borders.

Such incidents include the armed operation of Belgian paratroopers in 1965 to defend 2,000 foreigners in Zaire; the U.S. military intervention in Grenada in 1983 under the pretext of protecting thousands of American nationals, who found themselves in danger due to a coup d'êtat in this island state; the sending of American troops to Panama in 1989 to defend, among others, American nationals.

We also have to keep in mind the present-day military interventions by the U.S. and its allies in Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan. By the way, the last three cases are examples of tough American interventions when its own citizens did not need direct protection. But in spite of those countries' massive civilian losses at the hands of American soldiers, no one blamed Washington for a 'disproportionate use of force.'

Of course, the history of international relations is full of abuses committed under the pretext of defending citizens.

In order to draw a clear line between lawful and unlawful use of force, one can single out a number of objective criteria: first, the existence of a real threat to life or systematic and violations of human rights; second, the absence of other, peaceful means of resolving the conflict; third, a humanitarian aim for an armed operation; and four, proportionality - i.e., limitation on the time and means of rescue.

Russia'sactions were in full compliance with these criteria. In conducting its military action, Russian troops also strictly observed the requirements of international humanitarian law. The Russian military did not subject civil objects and civilians on the territory of Georgia to deliberate attacks.

It is hard to believe that in such a situation any other country would have remained idle. Let me quote two statements:

One:'We are against cruelty. We are against ethnic cleansing. A right tocome back home should be guaranteed to the refugees. We all agree that murders, property destruction, annihilation of culture and religion are not to be tolerated. That is what we are fighting against. Bombardments of the aggressor will be mercilessly intensified.'

Two: 'We appeal to all free countries to join us but our actions are not determined by others. I will defend the freedom and security of my citizens, whatever actions are needed for it. Our special forces have seized airports and bridges... air forces and missiles have struck essential targets.'

Who do you think is the author of these words? Medvedev? Putin? No. The first quote belongs to Bill Clinton, talking about NATO operation against Yugoslavia. The author of the second quote is the current resident of the White House, talking about the U.S. intervention in Iraq.

Does that mean that the United States and NATO can use brute force where they want to, and Russia has to abstain from it even if it has to look at thousands of its own citizens being shot? If it's not hypocrisy, then what IS hypocrisy?

Dmitry Rogozin is Russia's ambassador to NATO.

Global Research Articles by Dmitry Rogozin

What a DAMN SHAME!!!


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## Mattones (Jul 9, 2006)

I found it amazingly funny how georgia was about to ship back Hummers to the USA as we all know the US trains their army and when Russia walked in they drove off with every single hummer. Now that is classic. Also when Bush told Russia ''Stop, what your doing now!'' as if they owned the entire planet t made me laugh. We all know Russia they take no sh*t.

Russia on some level is the exact same as the US. All they care for is Money and Oil. You may say Russia is corrupted as they kill their own for no reason. But Doesnt the US do the same? If they ''care'' so much about their people they would do something about their health care problem. Thousands of people die each year because of it. Which in my eyes seems pretty close together. But again thats just me and everyone has a different opinion.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

In addition to what baddfish said, world organizations like the EU and UN are deliberating Russia's punishment but there has not been any talk about Georgia's punishment for it's actions! WTF! It was Georgia's actions which started the mess and they're getting off the hook just like that?!? WTF!!! If this is the "Free Word's" definition of justice, then count me in amongst the commies' ranks. f*ck.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> In addition to what baddfish said, world organizations like the EU and UN are deliberating Russia's punishment but there has not been any talk about Georgia's punishment for it's actions! WTF! It was Georgia's actions which started the mess and they're getting off the hook just like that?!? WTF!!! If this is the "Free Word's" definition of justice, then count me in amongst the commies' ranks. f*ck.


You mean when George was fighting their own separatists in their own country? Don't forget that Ossetia is part of Georgia, NOT Russia. Russia did much more damage to that region then Georgia did to their own. Those ossetian's only have Russian passports b/c Russia gave it to them. They're still Georgian citizens. Mattones, I can't believe you compared bombing people with the US choosing not to have universal healthcare.


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## Doktordet (Sep 22, 2006)

diddye said:


> In addition to what baddfish said, world organizations like the EU and UN are deliberating Russia's punishment but there has not been any talk about Georgia's punishment for it's actions! WTF! It was Georgia's actions which started the mess and they're getting off the hook just like that?!? WTF!!! If this is the "Free Word's" definition of justice, then count me in amongst the commies' ranks. f*ck.


You mean when George was fighting their own separatists in their own country? Don't forget that Ossetia is part of Georgia, NOT Russia. Russia did much more damage to that region then Georgia did to their own. Those ossetian's only have Russian passports b/c Russia gave it to them. They're still Georgian citizens. Mattones, I can't believe you compared bombing people with the US choosing not to have universal healthcare.
[/quote]

It doesnt matter if South Ossetia was or wasnt part of Georgia territory. the fact of the matter is, their idiot prez Saakashvili bombed the sh*t out of those towns resulting in unacceptable collateral damage (aka innocent civilians/non-combatants killed). And if you got the facts straight, Georgia was warned previously not to attack. But they did anyway.

Dont you see, idiot Saakashvili took a gamble and paid for it dearly. Now he wants the rest of the world to sympathize with him and bail his sorry ass out of the hole he dug himself!

so based on your reasoning, it would have been perfectly okay for Saddam to have gassed to death innocent Iraqi citizens?


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Doktordet said:


> In addition to what baddfish said, world organizations like the EU and UN are deliberating Russia's punishment but there has not been any talk about Georgia's punishment for it's actions! WTF! It was Georgia's actions which started the mess and they're getting off the hook just like that?!? WTF!!! If this is the "Free Word's" definition of justice, then count me in amongst the commies' ranks. f*ck.


You mean when George was fighting their own separatists in their own country? Don't forget that Ossetia is part of Georgia, NOT Russia. Russia did much more damage to that region then Georgia did to their own. Those ossetian's only have Russian passports b/c Russia gave it to them. They're still Georgian citizens. Mattones, I can't believe you compared bombing people with the US choosing not to have universal healthcare.
[/quote]

It doesnt matter if South Ossetia was or wasnt part of Georgia territory. the fact of the matter is, their idiot prez Saakashvili bombed the sh*t out of those towns resulting in unacceptable collateral damage (aka innocent civilians/non-combatants killed). And if you got the facts straight, Georgia was warned previously not to attack. But they did anyway.

Dont you see, idiot Saakashvili took a gamble and paid for it dearly. Now he wants the rest of the world to sympathize with him and bail his sorry ass out of the hole he dug himself!

so based on your reasoning, it would have been perfectly okay for Saddam to have gassed to death innocent Iraqi citizens?
[/quote]

No, you're perfectly correct. Georgia did bomb their own towns when everybody warned them not to. However, comparing that and Iraq is totally different. Iraq had 10 years of UN sanctions before the US attacked. How long did Russia? Days? Also, the deaths are nowhere near comparable. Its kind of like the problem between the Kurds and Turkey. The Kurds keep going into Turkey and attacking their country. The separatists keep attacking Georgians. Don't make it seem like this is one-sided at all. It just snowballed into a large problem which IMO Russia had no business getting involved. They make it seem as if they're "protecting" ossetians. In fact, this is just an excuse to exact revenge against westernized former states.


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

WWIII coming soon to a planet near you...


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

f*ck....

you f*ckers write f*ckin essays (not hispanics) on this subject...

f*ck the schlotskis...they equate this invasion to the US led invasion of vietnam...

last time i checked the USA didnt own vietnam before the vietnam war (american war when you are vietnam)...the russians ran georgia before the "split"...the russians are grasping at straws trying to find some way in which to equate themselves with the americans....

it wont happen. while both will/have a badly failing economy...the russians are still "ex" commies...so f*ck 'em


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## Avatar~God (Oct 21, 2004)

Puff said:


> f*ck....
> 
> you f*ckers write f*ckin essays (not hispanics) on this subject...
> 
> ...












I really dont think that WWIII is coming up anytime soon. I believe this will end pretty soon, Russia says they want to be out by Friday, but they also said they were going to be out last Monday and Wednesday. I'm not worried about it anymore, mostly because I believe that Russia and America knows it would be extremely idiotic for both countries to war with each other.


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