# Caribe (Shoal) or Elongatus as Single Predatory Fish?



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Hi Sean,

I agree with everything you say.

In a nutshell what I am trying to assess is if GIVEN THE CHOICE, EXCLUDING PRICE DISPARITIES, HYPE AND SUPPLY/DEMAND ISSUES. and the S. Elongatus was as freely available as the S. Rhom and the P. Caribe as accesible as P. Nattereri--would S. Elongatus be preffered above the S. Rhom. by those enthusiasts looking for a solitary predator and would the P. Caribe be PREFFERED above the P. Nattereri by those enthusiasts looking to shoal?

I want to put aside the preference potential buyers would express for Piraya and Ternetzi for shoaling because I don't believe that the majority of the enthusiasts can afford a Piraya shoal, let alone the possibility of losing the fish and having to replace it. Also, to be perfectly honest, I want to exlude these two because they leave me with a far smaller margin than the Caribe.

I want to stock two types of fish only; the most desired shoaling Pygo and the most desired solitary Serra. Not the one that is more popular because that is conditioned by supply, demand and hype.

Of-course Rhoms and RBs are more popular to Elongatus and Caribe, respectively, they are far more freely available . So I'm not disputing that the RB is the most popular shoaling Pygo and the Rhom the most popular solitary Serra. However, my guess is that this is due to hype & supply/demand issues and not indicators of personal choice. I want to stock the two fish people would prefer to keep, not the two fish that are most kept, sold or purchased.

Regards,


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

instead of making all these confusing polls... why not just send an email to the established suppliers and ask them which piranha they sell the most of?


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

gamgenius said:


> instead of making all these confusing polls... why not just send an email to the established suppliers and ask them which piranha they sell the most of?


l

because you wouldn't get accurate information, it's in nobody's interest to provide this data.


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

well good luck manufacturing caribe


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted the more experienced piranha gurus to rate my theory taking into account a number of factors.
> 
> ...


I dont get what you need this for so can you please explain why

My revised theory

1. Pygocentrus nattereri iconic status has made it the predatory fish to keep for new enthusiasts
2. Pygocentrus nat. is regarded as the best option measuring price/quality by new enthusiasts
3. New Pygocentrus enthusiasts are encouraged to buy at least three specimens to shoal, more experienced enthusiasts can buy how ever many or few they want.
4. Noobs generally want the fishes hollywod made reputation more thne the fish.
4. A larger private tanks become readily available, a shoal is now more acessible to common people.


----------



## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just wanted the more experienced piranha gurus to rate my theory taking into account a number of factors.
> 
> ...


well lets first take a look at the second number 4 point - if the market shifted 360 degrees wouldn't it be the same since it turned all the way around. if i spin my office chair 360 i face right back the the computer not the other way so i think you mean a 180.

second in terms of which is sold the most its gotta be RBP definitely has the biggest population. they are so much cheaper and are WAY more common and can be tank bread. Caribe are a considered by some to be the most agressive of the pygos also they aren't as expensive as piraya.

all in all i think this is pointless bc we are only small percentage of P keepers out there.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

[quote name='Caribe Manufacturer' date='May 11 2009, 12:15 PM' post='2369783']
Hi,

I just wanted the more experienced piranha gurus to rate my theory taking into account a number of factors.

There are no firm statistics regarding the number of Serrasalmus/Pygocentrus kept as pets. Neither are there any reliable figures which indicate which species are preferred above others. However, please bear the following in mind before rating and feel free to disagree-I'd love to hear your your opinion.

1. Pygocentrus Caribe's iconic status has made it the predatory fish to keep for new enthusiasts
*As some others have said...nattereri is the best Pygocentrus for new hobbyists. They breed readily so they are inexpensive and are available year round. Mistakes happen in this hobby...and when you loose a fish or two due to inexperience...it is easier to replace a nattereri then cariba. So I guess it really depends on what you are using to measure quality*
2. Pygocentrus Caribe is regarded as the best option measuring price/quality by new enthusiasts
*The behavior difference between the 3 species is negligable imo. Hype drives this hobby as much as anything else...and I had a nattereri that was the most aggressive Pygo I ever had...and I have had a few. That little 7" guy beat up everything I put with it until eventually I gave him to a friend to keep as a solo fish.*
3. New Pygocentrus enthusiasts will buy at least three specimens to shoal, more experienced enthusiasts will buy far more.
*I think new hobbyists buy more because...especially when they get juvenile fish...because they fear they will loose some fish to cannibalism....I never stock my tanks with the though to a lost fish. Also...the new hobbyists is more apt to buy 3 fish for a 20 gallon tank...where the more experienced people wait until they have a large tank befor they start overstocking.*
4. Pygocentrus Piraya are generally regarded as an expensive second option by new enthusiasts, appreciated more by the more experienced affluent enthusiast, as is the Ternetzi. 
*I would put ternetzi in the same class as cariba...*
4. Finally and probably the most debatable part of my theory is that the Serrasalmus/Pygocentrus market has shifted 360 degrees over the last 5 to 7 years. Enthusiasts now prefer to shoal Caribe over any single solitary predator.
*I actually think it is the opposite. The newer hobbyist will go with a shoal of pygos...where the people that have been in the hobby for a while branch out into Serrasalmus. And when the more experienced hobbyists goes back into pygos...it is usually a shoal of piraya.*


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

^i agree with your last point, since most new keepers want a shoal for feeding frenzies, where as a serra can not do that.


----------



## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

> > Hi,
> >
> > I just wanted the more experienced piranha gurus to rate my theory taking into account a number of factors.
> >
> ...


THANK YOU! and THANK YOU GG! exactly what i was thinking! what's up with this thread?!

STRONGLY DISAGREE if you've been in this hobby for a while i dont see how you came up with this list!?


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i voted strongly disagree, because i strongly disagree with most of what the OP said


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> HI, EXCELLENT ANALYSIS THANKS!! MY REPLIES ARE NEXT TO YOUR COMMENTS
> 
> I just wanted the more experienced piranha gurus to rate my theory taking into account a number of factors.
> 
> ...


* I agree entirely with you on that one and that's what I really wanted to find out--whether there has been a real significant shift.

I dont get what you need this for so can you please explain why: Yeah I'll explain, I just think that there has been a massive shift towards shoals, which has dented the market of the solitary predatory fish. I understand that there are still a huge number of people that want solo serras and still buy them and always will. However, as I read on the P.Fury forum, which I haven't read since Josh shut down predatoryfish.com some years ago. One thing hasn't changed, people continue to astonish me posting their absolute dissapointment when they find that their Rhom isn't a finger chasing, blood thirsty killing machine. Instead they find that it's a shy, skittish specimen that generally prefers hiding behind plants. I think people are now wising up to this and now realize that the only fish that gives you a more than average chance of showing this level of agression is the Elongatus. So I've decided that I'm going to dedicate myself entirely to one fish or the other-either the Caribe or the Elongatus (or even both), which I believe are respective leaders in their class (depending on the profile of the keeper) on both price and value.

My revised theory

1. Pygocentrus nattereri iconic status has made it the predatory fish to keep for new enthusiasts I think that's debatable; Nattereri became iconic because of all the early National Geographic documentaries filmed in the Llanos of Venezuela. At the time and even now the "noobs" and even the producers of those programmes described those fish as Nattereri, of-course we all now they were in fact P. Caribe and I think this confusion created the market frenzy for the Nattereri.

2. Pygocentrus nat. is regarded as the best option measuring price/quality by new enthusiasts: I don't agree with that at all for the points mentioned above. I would agree that the wild RB particularly from Peru can be absolutely awesome and it could rank alongside Caribe in terms of agility, aggression and price--nothing else.

3. New Pygocentrus enthusiasts are encouraged to buy at least three specimens to shoal, more experienced enthusiasts can buy how ever many or few they want.
ll
4. Noobs generally want the fishes hollywod made reputation more thne the fish--yeah, agree entirely and Hollywood, National Geographic and Discovery made that reputation for the Caribe not the RB. Just that the noobs didn't see and the producers forgot to mention that this fish that has a black humeral spot on its flank is a Pygocentrus and not a RB piranha.

4. A larger private tanks become readily available, a shoal is now more acessible to common people. I agree entirely.
[/quote]

Thanks for your comments, its made me think about a few issues that I'd completely overlooked.*


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

[quote name='Grosse Gurke' date='May 11 2009, 06:01 PM' post='2369829']
[quote name='Caribe Manufacturer' date='May 11 2009, 12:15 PM' post='2369783']

Hi,

It's giving me a formatting error so i attached my reply,

Regards,
Jared


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Is there a reason for these questions, or just curiosity?


----------



## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

here ya go Caribe Manufacturing, i'll post your respond as its written in the .doc so people dont have to download it,

"hi, thanks for your reply nice to talk to you guys that know your stuff:

1. pygocentrus caribe's iconic status has made it the predatory fish to keep for new enthusiasts 
*as some others have said...nattereri is the best pygocentrus for new hobbyists interesting and to be perfectly honest i've been out of this market for so long that i wasn't aware that nattereri was now classed as genus pygocentrus nattereri ??. they breed readily so they are inexpensive and are available year round i agree with you entirely as i explained on my first reply on the thread, i overlooked the rb as a foregone conclusion and didn't really cater for it in my theory, i have explained why in reply to the first thread. if mistakes happen in this hobby...and when you loose a fish or two due to inexperience...it is easier to replace a nattereri then cariba definetly agree. so i guess it really depends on what you are using to measure quality* that's the most logical response to the question

2. pygocentrus caribe is regarded as the best option measuring price/quality by new enthusiasts
*the behavior difference between the 3 species is negligable imo. hype drives this hobby as much as anything else...and i had a nattereri that was the most aggressive pygo i ever had again i agree, if you read my first thread--wild rbs are awesome, particularly those from peru. its the only fish i've ever held that has broken the front glass plate on my battery ...and i have had a few. that little 7" gu beat up everfything i put with it until eventually i gave him to a friend to keep as a solo fish.* i believe you totally, where was it from?

3. new pygocentrus enthusiasts will buy at least three specimens to shoal, more experienced enthusiasts will buy far more.
*i think new hobbyists buy more because...especially when they get juvenile fish...because they fear they will loose some fish to cannibalism yeah, and it tends to be the larger ones ....i never stock my tanks with the though to a lost fish. also...the new hobbyists is more apt to buy 3 fish for a 20 gallon tank...where the more experienced people wait until they have a large tank befor they start overstocking.* yeah i'd go along with that

4. pygocentrus piraya are generally regarded as an expensive second option by new enthusiasts, appreciated more by the more experienced affluent enthusiast, as is the ternetzi. 
*i would put ternetzi in the same class as cariba...* here i would disagree entirely given that they don't share a large proportion of the traits offered by caribe (i have listed them on the first reply). they are on average 2.5 times more expensive and do not come close to caribe in terms of agility, agression, feeding displays, character and numerous other factors: caribe will nearly always be willing to leap out of the water to take food, they will often headbutt the tank lid and are totally unpredictable--not the case with ternetzi at all... in fact, they are unpredictable and very difficult to liken them to any species, as is the case with elongatus.

4. finally and probably the most debatable part of my theory is that the serrasalmus/pygocentrus market has shifted 360 degrees over the last 5 to 7 years. enthusiasts now prefer to shoal caribe over any single solitary predator. *i actually think it is the opposite. the newer hobbyist will go with a shoal of pygos...where the people that have been in the hobby for a while branch out into serrasalmus. that could be the case for the new enthusiasts and i would understand that. however, despite the fact that i've been out of the scene for quite a while, i cannot believe that there is a visible trend of experienced keepers shifting from shoal fish to solitary serras--i'm sure some are but it can't be a general trend.. and when the more experienced hobbyists goes back into pygos...it is usually a shoal of piraya.* i would agree with this last statement.
[/quote]

thanks for your feedback a pleasure to read your opinions."


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

this thread makes my brain hurt...

how long have you been out of the hobby? and how long were you in the hobby before you took a break?


----------



## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

I just started keeping fish last year just after I joined P-Fury. I can't speak about the old school preference of P's but I will say that I never understood the craze about Rhom's. I will admit that they are beautiful fish and majestic in many ways. I just started in the beginning by looking up piranha's on youtube and looking for video on them. To my surprise I discovered there were many types on P's. I was captivated by Elongs right away and Rhoms just never kept my attention for very long at all. Same with Caribe's applies they are way more beautiful in juvi and adult stages than any piranha IMO. You are right I think about which Pygo and Serra are the most popular. I want a shoal of caribe badly and even have settled for just one as well have two Elong's and would take another two or three no problem.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> this thread makes my brain hurt...
> 
> Yeah, its giving me a headache too. I didn´t expect countless new theories.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> I just started keeping fish last year just after I joined P-Fury. I can't speak about the old school preference of P's but I will say that I never understood the craze about Rhom's. I will admit that they are beautiful fish and majestic in many ways. I just started in the beginning by looking up piranha's on youtube and looking for video on them. To my surprise I discovered there were many types on P's. I was captivated by Elongs right away and Rhoms just never kept my attention for very long at all. Same with Caribe's applies they are way more beautiful in juvi and adult stages than any piranha IMO. You are right I think about which Pygo and Serra are the most popular. I want a shoal of caribe badly and even have settled for just one as well have two Elong's and would take another two or three no problem.


Hi.

Interesting point and one that I share entirely.

I understand you have 2 Elongatus and just 1 Caribe?? Are your Elongatus from Peru?

Regards,


----------



## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

I would'nt know where they came from, I bought them from two private sales. It happens to be a guy and his daughter and the guy had purchased them together and are from the same batch when captured. Yes you are right about my collection and also have 6 redz as well that I bought as inchers and have grown them out to around 4 inches. You are correct about buying pygos in numbers. I had another shoal that sadly died from a house fire. I never had fish until then and bought five and would have bought more but did not own a tank with enough space. This round of purchases applies that theory in practice as well. I bought six reds at three different locations and would've preferred to have more but again tank space was a issue. Am looking into future purchases that would be either 6 piraya in a 500 gallon to start or 20 caribe in a 500 gallon tank. I would consider a manny or more so a gibbus if they were'nt so hard to find.


----------



## blbig50 (Jan 1, 2009)

Im interested in your reasoning behind all of this. Are you looking to breed?


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

blbig50 said:


> Im interested in your reasoning behind all of this. Are you looking to breed?


Hi,

Thanks for your comment!!

In answer to your question; No, I´m not that ambitious--no plans to attempt breeding.

However, I will soon be holding these two fish in large quantities but due to the nature of the P-Fury site and its seller policy, cannot advertise or make reference to any commercial plans--because I am not currently a paid advertiser. I will however soon be advertising on P.Fury.

Regards,


----------



## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

two quick points: 1) caribe are no where, and never will be, as prevalent as natts in this hobby. think of how many stores across the US and canada that sell rbp, but not caribe. it's not even close. my LFS goes through dozens of rbp per month and doesn't ever stock caribe. think of how many new and experienced p keepers that will never even visit this site.

2)rhoms are still more prevalent than elongs. i just think you have been reading all the hype over elongs, on this board, recently, and are coming to your own conclusions.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i guess that i just find it hard to believe that someone that has been in the hobby as long as you claim to have been would make the statements that you have made, because they are way off base. i could be totally wrong, but this just sounds like the typical person that shows up out of nowhere and instantly starts posting all over trying to sound like an expert and some future major player in the piranha business.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

> 4. pygocentrus piraya are generally regarded as an expensive second option by new enthusiasts, appreciated more by the more experienced affluent enthusiast, as is the ternetzi.
> *i would put ternetzi in the same class as cariba...* here i would disagree entirely given that they don't share a large proportion of the traits offered by caribe (i have listed them on the first reply). they are on average 2.5 times more expensive and do not come close to caribe in terms of agility, agression, feeding displays, character and numerous other factors: caribe will nearly always be willing to leap out of the water to take food, they will often headbutt the tank lid and are totally unpredictable--not the case with ternetzi at all... in fact, they are unpredictable and very difficult to liken them to any species, as is the case with elongatus.


I have been around this hobby far to long to buy into the hype. I have had the privilege of keeping these fish in species tanks as well as mixed tanks...and the difference in wild caught nattereri and cariba...at the same size...is negligible. Cariba are a very pretty fish....but dont try to sell me on feeding displays, character, aggression....Those are all individual traits that very from fish to fish. Price is all about availability and demand. I have seen cariba go for nothing...and I have seen them go for more then ternetzi. The reason I removed piraya in my comparison is that I have seen differences in behaviors from other Pygocentrus species.


> 4. finally and probably the most debatable part of my theory is that the serrasalmus/pygocentrus market has shifted 360 degrees over the last 5 to 7 years. enthusiasts now prefer to shoal caribe over any single solitary predator. *i actually think it is the opposite. the newer hobbyist will go with a shoal of pygos...where the people that have been in the hobby for a while branch out into serrasalmus. that could be the case for the new enthusiasts and i would understand that. however, despite the fact that i've been out of the scene for quite a while, i cannot believe that there is a visible trend of experienced keepers shifting from shoal fish to solitary serras--i'm sure some are but it can't be a general trend.. and when the more experienced hobbyists goes back into pygos...it is usually a shoal of piraya.* i would agree with this last statement.


Just telling you what I have observed. New fish keepers are all about the frenzy which you get out of a group of pygos....most of the people that have been in this hobby for a while to keep these fish or other reasons...or they move on to a different hobby. The variety people seek is in the Serrasalmus genus...not Pygocentrus...which is why people tend to start with Pygos...then move on to Serrasalmus. At least that is what I have seen.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

As far as elongatus and rhombeus....again...I think it is all about the hype. I have kept at least 8 different elongatus and probably 10 different rhombeus and behavior is an individual thing...it isnt a species thing. I have had rhombeus that were very shy...and some that hand feed. I have kept elongatus that would hide all day...and some that were very interactive. People need to start buying fish because they like the look of the species...not because it is more "aggressive" then other species because they will continually be disappointed. People that attribute traits by species usually have kept one...and they make these wild assumptions because of one fish. There are some known traits that can be attributed as a general statement to a few of the species.....but nothing like you are trying to do in this thread.


----------



## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Very well said GG. 
"Wild assumptions" lead to alot of dissapointed newbie keepers.

These "blanket" species descriptions is something that should always be taken with a serious grain of salt. The only way you know your going to get an aggressive glass banging fish is by observing many different species and saying to the pet store owner..."That One!!!!"


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

joedizzlempls said:


> i guess that i just find it hard to believe that someone that has been in the hobby as long as you claim to have been would make the statements that you have made, because they are way off base. i could be totally wrong, but this just sounds like the typical person that shows up out of nowhere and instantly starts posting all over trying to sound like an expert and some future major player in the piranha business.


Hi,

If you look at the way this thread has evolved you´ll see that I´m far from way off. All I´ve tried to do is write a theory and have it critiqued (look that one up in the dictionary) by some of the many experts that are members of P.Fury. This then allows me to go modifying my initial theory based on those that agree with me and those that disagree with me. This is called primary or qualitative research, which in the end gives you a result, on which you then make a decision.

As regards my being "the typical person that shows up out of nowhere and tries to sound like an expert"--I honestly couldn´t care less what your perception of me is. Enought to say that I have lived in Brazil for the last two and a half years, Venezuela for 7 years and have been to the llanos, rio Sao Francisco and Iquitos more times than you´ve had hot dinners. I speak English, Spanish and Portuguese fluently (hold English, Spanish and Venezuelan Passports and hold a residence permit (CPF) from the Receita Federal do Brasil-- so i really have very little I need to prove to you. I´m grateful for those that have responded in agreement and to those who have responded in disagreement. I´ll continue to modify my theory and if I´m wrong at the end of it--I´ll make my decision based on those findings.

If you do have any queries you´d like to run by me? feel free...


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

primetime3wise said:


> two quick points: 1) caribe are no where, and never will be, as prevalent as natts in this hobby. think of how many stores across the US and canada that sell rbp, but not caribe. it's not even close. my LFS goes through dozens of rbp per month and doesn't ever stock caribe. think of how many new and experienced p keepers that will never even visit this site.
> 
> 2)rhoms are still more prevalent than elongs. i just think you have been reading all the hype over elongs, on this board, recently, and are coming to your own conclusions.


Thanks for your information on the RB market in North America--I´ll bear all those facts and figures in mind.

Rhoms are more prevalent than elongs--thanks for that one aswell. In fact, I´d take both your points into consideration if you´d bothered to read what I wrote. I use the word PREFERENCE NOT PREVALENCE AND A QUESION MARK AT THE END OF THE STATEMENT!!

Thanks anyway I enjoyed reading your opinon.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> > 4. pygocentrus piraya are generally regarded as an expensive second option by new enthusiasts, appreciated more by the more experienced affluent enthusiast, as is the ternetzi.
> > *i would put ternetzi in the same class as cariba...* here i would disagree entirely given that they don't share a large proportion of the traits offered by caribe (i have listed them on the first reply). they are on average 2.5 times more expensive and do not come close to caribe in terms of agility, agression, feeding displays, character and numerous other factors: caribe will nearly always be willing to leap out of the water to take food, they will often headbutt the tank lid and are totally unpredictable--not the case with ternetzi at all... in fact, they are unpredictable and very difficult to liken them to any species, as is the case with elongatus.
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you entirely on practically everything you´ve said. I clearly state that you can´t generalize on the personality of any single fish let alone a genus. I quite clearly state that if you are looking for those traits you are "more likely" to observe this behaviour with Caribe and Elongatus, respectively.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Tango374 said:


> Very well said GG.
> "Wild assumptions" lead to alot of dissapointed newbie keepers.
> 
> These "blanket" species descriptions is something that should always be taken with a serious grain of salt. The only way you know your going to get an aggressive glass banging fish is by observing many different species and saying to the pet store owner..."That One!!!!"


Definetly!!


----------



## RedneckR0nin (Nov 5, 2008)

^^ A huge x2 on that statement, I take him as the foremost authority on Piranha culture and the community that keeps them. There is nobody it seems that he does'nt have experience with or at least knowledge of them that keep P's. I'm sure there are a couple that are unfamilar but out of the general community he's the f*cking guru.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

This was the whole point of the critique-this is the final modification, which will answer my question and doubts. Namely, that Caribe are the preffered Pygo. for Shoaling and Elongatus is now Preffered (not held, owned or sold) over the Rhom-or Not...

Thanks for all your input!!


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

RedneckR0nin said:


> I would'nt know where they came from, I bought them from two private sales. It happens to be a guy and his daughter and the guy had purchased them together and are from the same batch when captured. Yes you are right about my collection and also have 6 redz as well that I bought as inchers and have grown them out to around 4 inches. You are correct about buying pygos in numbers. I had another shoal that sadly died from a house fire. I never had fish until then and bought five and would have bought more but did not own a tank with enough space. This round of purchases applies that theory in practice as well. I bought six reds at three different locations and would've preferred to have more but again tank space was a issue. Am looking into future purchases that would be either 6 piraya in a 500 gallon to start or 20 caribe in a 500 gallon tank. I would consider a manny or more so a gibbus if they were'nt so hard to find.


Interesting!! would be a great mix.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> I agree with you entirely on practically everything you´ve said. I clearly state that you can´t generalize on the personality of any single fish let alone a genus. I quite clearly state that if you are looking for those traits you are "more likely" to observe this behaviour with Caribe and Elongatus, respectively.


And I am saying that in my experience....you are just as likely to find those traits with wild caught nattereri and brandtii...as you are with cariba and elongatus. I love the way elongatus look...however I am no more impressed with their behavior then I have been with brandtii or maculatus or irritans or gouldingi or rhombeus or manueli or gibbus or geryi or eigenmanni or sanchezi.....they are all great species. For some reason elongatus has been tagged as being more aggressive then all other Serrasalmus...however when you look at it in terms of territorial behavior...they would not fit into my top 5 in terms of a territorial species. I had two that were doing fine together for something like 8 months until I moved them to a different tank where they lived for about a week and then died mysteriously. So IMO....you are "as likely" to observe this behavior with cariba or elongatus...not more likely.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> i guess that i just find it hard to believe that someone that has been in the hobby as long as you claim to have been would make the statements that you have made, because they are way off base. i could be totally wrong, but this just sounds like the typical person that shows up out of nowhere and instantly starts posting all over trying to sound like an expert and some future major player in the piranha business.


Hi,

If you look at the way this thread has evolved you´ll see that I´m far from way off. All I´ve tried to do is write a theory and have it critiqued (look that one up in the dictionary) by some of the many experts that are members of P.Fury. This then allows me to go modifying my initial theory based on those that agree with me and those that disagree with me. This is called primary or qualitative research, which in the end gives you a result, on which you then make a decision.

As regards my being "the typical person that shows up out of nowhere and tries to sound like an expert"--I honestly couldn´t care less what your perception of me is. Enought to say that I have lived in Brazil for the last two and a half years, Venezuela for 7 years and have been to the llanos, rio Sao Francisco and Iquitos more times than you´ve had hot dinners. I speak English, Spanish and Portuguese fluently (hold English, Spanish and Venezuelan Passports and hold a residence permit (CPF) from the Receita Federal do Brasil-- so i really have very little I need to prove to you. I´m grateful for those that have responded in agreement and to those who have responded in disagreement. I´ll continue to modify my theory and if I´m wrong at the end of it--I´ll make my decision based on those findings.

If you do have any queries you´d like to run by me? feel free...

[/quote]

it's funny that you have such a condescending attitude when every statement you've made shows how little you know. i'm not sure how the places you've lived and the languages you speak have anything to do with your knowledge of piranhas (or lack thereof).


----------



## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

what decision are you trying to make based off your "theory"? Im still confused as to why your trieng to get from this thread. 
The bottom line is RBP's are the most popular becasue captive breeding that makes them cheap and available. Advanced or novice, almost everybody has them at one time.

i would also say rhom for solo piranha, but elong is close becasue they both have hollywood style hype surrounding them. I do agree that its alot of hype, but i think its perfectly fair to compair their agression to other fish. example the majority of rhoms or elongs are more agressive then a solo red. Its not always true, but more often then not it is the case.


----------



## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

joedizzlempls said:


> i guess that i just find it hard to believe that someone that has been in the hobby as long as you claim to have been would make the statements that you have made, because they are way off base. i could be totally wrong, but this just sounds like the typical person that shows up out of nowhere and instantly starts posting all over trying to sound like an expert and some future major player in the piranha business.


im with you on that! seems a little awkward to me and honestly i was asking myself the same thing. no hard feelings caribe manufacturer i just call it like i sees it and i do where glasses so i could be wrong but it definitely seems like your coming off like that!


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> what decision are you trying to make based off your "theory"? Im still confused as to why your trieng to get from this thread.
> The bottom line is RBP's are the most popular becasue captive breeding that makes them cheap and available. Advanced or novice, almost everybody has them at one time.
> 
> i would also say rhom for solo piranha, but elong is close becasue they both have hollywood style hype surrounding them. I do agree that its alot of hype, but i think its perfectly fair to compair their agression to other fish. example the majority of rhoms or elongs are more agressive then a solo red. Its not always true, but more often then not it is the case.


Hi Sean,

What I'm trying to deduce is which two fish (Pygos and Serras) are most preffered by enthusiasts. Not which one is currently sold more, or purchased more--I couldn't care less which one is currently sold more. My theory is that most enthusiasts would choose an Elongatus above a Rhom. However, due to a combination of facts and issues, the fact is that the Rhom still seems to be purchased due to hype and false reputation and for the most part as I can see by the numerous posts, this leads to huge dissapointment when they get their rhom. home and find that it would much prefer to hide behind plants than do what most enthusiasts actually want it to do. Elongatus is more far more difficult to get hold of--but what I am suggesting is that you are more likely to see the behaviour most new enthusiasts expect in a Rhom with the Elongatus.

In the same way I think that most Pygo enthusiasts would (taking all into account) would choose Caribe--again without generalising i think it provides the best price quality relationship. So I want to stock just two types of fish, the preffered Pygo and the preffered Serra. I'm not at all interested about which one is sold more, is more popular or aggressive because these traits are all conditioned by supply/demand and a myriad of other variables.

That's it really,

Regards,


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Bye the way, changing the subject entirely does anyone know where and what Josh Smick of the old predatoryfish.net site is and how he's doing?


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Bye the way, changing the subject entirely does anyone know where and what Josh Smick of the old predatoryfish.net site is and how he's doing?


If you had been around in the last 5 years of so...you wouldnt need to ask.


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

another poll! I don't understand why you are so hung up on caribe and elongs. If your business plan is to only distribute those p's, then go for it. IMO limiting your customer base is not smart when starting a new business with no established reputation. Instead of making polls to see what people like, why not just go to the pics/vids section and see what kinds of piranha that people like and keep.


----------



## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

well i can tell you first hand if you open up and ONLY sell those two species even if it's ONLY FISH in general you wont last long at all! you definitely want variety! FISH REPTILES AMPHIBIANS ETC.


----------



## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> If you are looking at the most *attractive* and profitable fish in both markets....here is your advice from someone that has been doing this for a while:
> 
> Serrasalmus...geryi or irritans...


I'll give you profitable GG but attractive? I'm not tracking with ya on that one man. lol.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> what decision are you trying to make based off your "theory"? Im still confused as to why your trieng to get from this thread.
> The bottom line is RBP's are the most popular becasue captive breeding that makes them cheap and available. Advanced or novice, almost everybody has them at one time.
> 
> i would also say rhom for solo piranha, but elong is close becasue they both have hollywood style hype surrounding them. I do agree that its alot of hype, but i think its perfectly fair to compair their agression to other fish. example the majority of rhoms or elongs are more agressive then a solo red. Its not always true, but more often then not it is the case.


Hi Sean,

I agree with everything you say. In a nutshell what I am trying to assess is if GIVEN THE CHOICE (i.e. the Elongatus was as freely available as the Rhom--would they prefer it to the Rhom.

In the same way, I want to deduce whether or not Pygo. Caribe (assuming that it was as freely available as RBP) would the potential customer prefer it above the RBP and even whether or not they would prefer it above Piraya or Ternetzi (barring price disparities).

I want to stock two types of fish only; the most desired shoaling Pygo and the most desired solitary predator--Not which one is more popular... of-course Rhoms and RBs are more popular--they are much more freely available than the Caribe and Elong. So I'm not disputing that the RB is the most popular shoaling Pygo and the Rhom the most popular solitary predator, but my guess is that this is due to the availability of these two fish. I want to stock the two fish people would prefer to keep not the two fish that are most kept, sold or bought.

Regards,


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Bye the way, changing the subject entirely does anyone know where and what Josh Smick of the old predatoryfish.net site is and how he's doing?


If you had been around in the last 5 years of so...you wouldnt need to ask.
[/quote]


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

lawlz


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

gamgenius said:


> If you are looking at the most *attractive* and profitable fish in both markets....here is your advice from someone that has been doing this for a while:
> 
> Serrasalmus...geryi or irritans...


Hi,

I can't get hold of Geryi and I don't think that noobs would go for Irritans at all.

I'll give you profitable GG but attractive? I'm not tracking with ya on that one man. lol.
[/quote]


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> well i can tell you first hand if you open up and ONLY sell those two species even if it's ONLY FISH in general you wont last long at all! you definitely want variety! FISH REPTILES AMPHIBIANS ETC.


Well based on that assumption I'm definetly going to fail, because I'm going to bet on stocking just one species of Serra and one Pygocentrus. No plans for reptiles and amphibians
[/quote]

how can you even say that you think you have a pretty clear idea when you are so stuck on the idea that elongs and caribes are the best fish in the minds of experienced keepers when EVERYONE has told you otherwise? if you really want to start a successful business, you need to listen to what the real demand is, not just some crazy theory you came up with. you say that you want to have your "theory" critiqued, but you aren't listening to anyone, you started with a bad theory about caribes and elongs and after all the things that have been said, you are still saying that caribes and elongs are the favorites. i don't even know why i'm typing this, it's like talking to a brick wall...

how are you expecting any type of accuracy in this poll of yours when you keep changing the choices after people have already voted?


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> Bye the way, changing the subject entirely does anyone know where and what Josh Smick of the old predatoryfish.net site is and how he's doing?


If you had been around in the last 5 years of so...you wouldnt need to ask.
[/quote]
[/quote]


----------



## vincecarder (Feb 1, 2006)

Well thought I'd chime in on this thread. I couldn't bother reading everything with the bickering going on. Not sure if a guy wants to start a shop etc selling one particular fish etc.

From what I find with P's is that it's best to have everything. If you haven't owned a rhom, don't say elongs are the best just because you have only owned elongs. Polls like this don't make any sense, it's just a popularity contest and from what I'm seeing now is a lot of new P owners are picking up elongs and can mess up a poll right away.

If you want feedback, try getting people that have owned all the types of P's your interested in. Myself, I've owned them all and have found it really depends on the fish. I've had some elongs that did nothing, never eat infront of me, hide all day, just a bore of a fish. Then I've had elongs eat from my hand.

Now if you want my opinion what the best fish I've owned was probably the 15" black peru rhom I owned. Just the sheer size and power of that fish...it blew people away. I would have friends come over and say "I didn't know Piranha's grew that big" cause all they have seen is red bellies. Just moving that fish from tank to tank was an experience (I used a giant fish net and he chewed the wooden edge and crunched it).

As for choosing a shoal or single fish, it's all about the fish keeper. A shoal will take way more time and attention. If your attempting something like Caribes, Terns, Piraya...you really have to watch them to make sure no fish are singled out, water is clean from the food they rip apart. I had a Piraya that was the biggest [email protected]$$ fish that would just attack his mates for fun no matter what I did. A shoal is very fun but just be ready for a little more work with them. As for the craziest most entertaining fish I've had in a shoal, it's got to be the Terns for me. Big eaters, will eat at ANYTIME. Mixed shoals always rock and I find the terns usually are the biggest eaters (they seem to grow fastest for me).

If you want any other info on the P's I've owned let me know...I'd suggest stock what ever is in demand which is usually Rhoms, elongs, Terns and special order the Caribes, Piraya when they are in season.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

joedizzlempls said:


> well i can tell you first hand if you open up and ONLY sell those two species even if it's ONLY FISH in general you wont last long at all! you definitely want variety! FISH REPTILES AMPHIBIANS ETC.


Well based on that assumption I'm definetly going to fail, because I'm going to bet on stocking just one species of Serra and one Pygocentrus. No plans for reptiles and amphibians
[/quote]

how can you even say that you think you have a pretty clear idea when you are so stuck on the idea that elongs and caribes are the best fish in the minds of experienced keepers when EVERYONE has told you otherwise? if you really want to start a successful business, you need to listen to what the real demand is, not just some crazy theory you came up with. you say that you want to have your "theory" critiqued, but you aren't listening to anyone, you started with a bad theory about caribes and elongs and after all the things that have been said, you are still saying that caribes and elongs are the favorites. i don't even know why i'm typing this, it's like talking to a brick wall...

how are you expecting any type of accuracy in this poll of yours when you keep changing the choices after people have already voted?
[/quote]

F.Y.I.:

The Delphi method is a systematic, interactive forecasting method which relies on experts in a particular field voting on a particular theory or assumption. The carefully selected experts debate theories, which are adjusted in a number of rounds. After each round, a summary of the experts' forecasts from the previous round are assessed, as well as the reasons they provided for their judgments. Thus, experts are encouraged to revise their earlier answers in light of the replies of other members of their panel. The theory will be modified in up to 5 rounds. It is believed that during this process the range of the answers will decrease and the group will converge towards the "correct" answer. Finally, the process is stopped after a pre-defined stop criterion (e.g. number of rounds, achievement of consensus, stability of results).


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i bow to your superior intelligence....

but seriously.... all i'm hearing from you is "blah, blah, blah". if you want to sound intelligent, try adding some actual substance to what you are saying rather than trying to add scientific merit to your ridiculous theory and ramblings.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

if you would have joined this website and started a thread that just came right out and said something along the lines of "hey guys, i am thinking about starting up my own business and was looking for some input on what would be some good species to stock... my personal favorites are elongs and caribes", it would have been a totally different situation. instead, you started a ridiculous poll thread that was unintelligible at best and then proceeded with a very condescending attitude toward those that offered their input. we've all seen this a million times, so forgive us for not jumping on board and being amazed by your supposed wealth of knowledge.


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> I don't think that Geryi or Irritans could be supplied on a regular basis neither would they be demanded.


With geryi...you are talking about a fish that when they do become available...a 4" fish will sell in the neighborhood of $250-$300. If that isnt demand...I dont know what is. Ask people if they would rather have a shoal of geryi or cariba and then talk to me about what you think. If you dont think irritans would sell...that simply shows you have lost touch with the hobbyists that care for these fish. People are begging for these fish and you cant find them anywhere.

It really doesnt matter what I think...you are simply attempting to manipulate your poll to get the results you want. If cariba were bred in captivity, available in the LFS's and cheap to buy...and it was nattereri that was only wild caught and more expensive...then it would be nattereri that would have greater appeal to hobbyists. Supply drives demand in this hobby...not the other way around. When fish are easy to get...there is less demand...fish that are rare...the demand and price is much greater. It has little to do with their behavior...and more to do with availability. Wild caught fish behave differently then tank bred...that is why there is some variation in the behavior of cariba to some nattereri....but if you compare them to wild caught nattereri....not so much.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

joedizzlempls said:


> I don't think that Geryi or Irritans could be supplied on a regular basis neither would they be demanded.


With geryi...you are talking about a fish that when they do become available...a 4" fish will sell in the neighborhood of $250-$300. If that isnt demand...I dont know what is. Ask people if they would rather have a shoal of geryi or cariba and then talk to me about what you think. If you dont think irritans would sell...that simply shows you have lost touch with the hobbyists that care for these fish. People are begging for these fish and you cant find them anywhere.

It really doesnt matter what I think...you are simply attempting to manipulate your poll to get the results you want. If cariba were bred in captivity, available in the LFS's and cheap to buy...and it was nattereri that was only wild caught and more expensive...then it would be nattereri that would have greater appeal to hobbyists. Supply drives demand in this hobby...not the other way around. When fish are easy to get...there is less demand...fish that are rare...the demand and price is much greater. It has little to do with their behavior...and more to do with availability. Wild caught fish behave differently then tank bred...that is why there is some variation in the behavior of cariba to some nattereri....but if you compare them to wild caught nattereri....not so much.
[/quote]

You know what, for once I agree with everything you say. but as I said I can't get hold of Geryi or Irritans for that matter.


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

vincecarder said:


> Well thought I'd chime in on this thread. I couldn't bother reading everything with the bickering going on. Not sure if a guy wants to start a shop etc selling one particular fish etc.
> 
> From what I find with P's is that it's best to have everything. If you haven't owned a rhom, don't say elongs are the best just because you have only owned elongs. Polls like this don't make any sense, it's just a popularity contest and from what I'm seeing now is a lot of new P owners are picking up elongs and can mess up a poll right away.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your information, to be perfectly honest with you I've never owned a piranha or a pygo as a pet. Rhoms are amazing as exhibits. I've fished them and sold them but not kept them--way too much hassle as a hobby but can be very lucrative selling. I've had 8 inch black diamond on my list for US dollar 6 and Rio Xingu Rhoms same size at US dollar 4 (in 2001) Elongatus from Peru are on my list now at 16 US Dolllars. In Venezuela you can eat 8 inch Caribe for 1 dollar 50 and the local fisherment will bring them out by the dozen when they are in season. The toughest part is getting a good dealer who has a license, getting them out of Venezuela, through Europe and into the U.K. For the most part iIts tough in the UK very tough but Spain is far easier to send and receive. Also, if you just look up a local dealer and pay for an order--8 times out of 10 you'll get nothing back, or a letter saying they were confiscated in customs or some other story.

My Caribe come out of Venezuela labelled as Nattereri and to be honest at 2 or 3 inches pretty hard for the airport vet or anyone else to tell them apart so they will generally sign without a problem. In fact, every time i order juvenile Caribe I get countless RBs mixed in even a few Spilopleura and Medinai--that look nothing alike. I still have no idea what the wholesale price for Caribe is right now--I'll know next week. Can't post anything though until I prescribe to P.Fish.


----------



## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

if you have never kept a piranha before, then how in the hell do you think you are in a position to make any type of statements as to their captive behavior?


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

joedizzlempls said:


> if you have never kept a piranha before, then how in the hell do you think you are in a position to make any type of statements as to their captive behavior?


HI good point.

I've never held them as pets... But I have held everything in large quantities except Denticulatus, Geryi, Pristobrycon Striolatus and Sanchezi, which for the most part is confused with Medinai. but yes, it is true I haven't held them in a "pet" environment, so perhaps that could blur my vision as to what their captive behaviour is--I take your point...


----------



## Gigante Pirana (Apr 23, 2004)

I'm just a little curious, why a couple of references to Josh smick and p.fish??????


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

joedizzlempls said:


> if you have never kept a piranha before, then how in the hell do you think you are in a position to make any type of statements as to their captive behavior?


OK. Let me take over from my business partner Jared Prentice. I have just returned from a business trip and managed to read half of this thread and really don't want to read any further and if he has upset anybody, I apologize.

I've also just noticed that he has been warned for advertising through this link. I apologise for that aswell all future posts will be posted solely through me.

My name is Jose Tuset Perez former owner of Piranha Boutique Europe. I did read a few threads questioning my integrity or veracity as a Piranha dealer. I'd just like to respond to those directly through the Piranha Fury site.

www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t32799.html

www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t43378.html

As i mentioned I was the owner and founder of Piranha Boutique Europe, which I founded in 1997 and closed in 2002. During this period I exported Pygocentrus and Serrasalmus species to France, Italy, Germany, Greece, Spain, United Kingdom, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and I exported what I believe to have been the first Manuelli to Rejkiavik, Iceland, something which I'm very proud of.

I supplied my great friend and comrade the late Nick Gardner through 2000 and 2001, I believe he was then supplied by Ron Neilson up to his untimely death.

I will be back in business shortly and will make a full direct announcement. I will close the current pole and this thread.

Kind regards,
Jose Tuset


----------



## sprfunk (Dec 22, 2005)

Well it almost sounds like your only able to get elongs and caribe. If that's the case personally I think a person could stay in business just selling those two. Although it clearly limits your options, there is still a need for those 2 fish and you could still make money. I think it would be very advantages if you could have a constant supply year round as many businesses have not been able to do. 
The only problem (as has been stated) limiting your stock to elongs and caribe limits the sales of your company to people who are only interested in those 2 P's. Your going to be missing a lot of possible sales, for instance, I am not currently interested in caribe or elongs. As of now I would like a "blue diamond" (spare me the explanation, I know) Rhom, Geryi, Mannuelli, sanchezi, gibbis, or altuvie. And if I wanted a shoal I would go with a piraya shoal. 
So using myself as a case study, you would not be getting me as a customer. But like gg said, if you can only get one shoaling P piraya would be IMO the best option for you.


----------



## EZmoney (May 13, 2004)

Caribe Manufacturer said:


> if you have never kept a piranha before, then how in the hell do you think you are in a position to make any type of statements as to their captive behavior?


OK. Let me take over from my business partner Jared Prentice. I have just returned from a business trip and managed to read half of this thread and really don't want to read any further and if he has upset anybody, I apologize.

I've also just noticed that he has been warned for advertising through this link. I apologise for that aswell all future posts will be posted solely through me.

My name is Jose Tuset Perez former owner of Piranha Boutique Europe. I did read a few threads questioning my integrity or veracity as a Piranha dealer. I'd just like to respond to those directly through the Piranha Fury site.

www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t32799.html

www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t43378.html

As i mentioned I was the owner and founder of Piranha Boutique Europe, which I founded in 1997 and closed in 2002. During this period I exported Pygocentrus and Serrasalmus species to France, Italy, Germany, Greece, Spain, United Kingdom, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and I exported what I believe to have been the first Manuelli to Rejkiavik, Iceland, something which I'm very proud of.

I supplied my great friend and comrade the late Nick Gardner through 2000 and 2001, I believe he was then supplied by Ron Neilson up to his untimely death.

I will be back in business shortly and will make a full direct announcement. I will close the current pole and this thread.

Kind regards,
Jose Tuset
[/quote]

LOL This thread just keeps getting more silly!
You say that you were in business from 1997 to 2002, yet the two threads you cite for credibility are dated in 2004. I'm not sure what to believe in this thread. At this point, the only thing that I am certain of is that the OP is a knucklehead.


----------



## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

NICK G started the uk piranha club in 2005 and passed away in dec. 2006 and from what i know he didnt have many options in providing the uk with many piranhas, actually only two options at the time that i know of and i know he got shipments from an importer in europe somewhere. dont know if it was from piranha boutique europe but yeah...


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

gamgenius said:


> if you have never kept a piranha before, then how in the hell do you think you are in a position to make any type of statements as to their captive behavior?


OK. Let me take over from my business partner Jared Prentice. I have just returned from a business trip and managed to read half of this thread and really don't want to read any further and if he has upset anybody, I apologize.

I've also just noticed that he has been warned for advertising through this link. I apologise for that aswell all future posts will be posted solely through me.

My name is Jose Tuset Perez former owner of Piranha Boutique Europe. I did read a few threads questioning my integrity or veracity as a Piranha dealer. I'd just like to respond to those directly through the Piranha Fury site.

www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t32799.html

www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t43378.html

As i mentioned I was the owner and founder of Piranha Boutique Europe, which I founded in 1997 and closed in 2002. During this period I exported Pygocentrus and Serrasalmus species to France, Italy, Germany, Greece, Spain, United Kingdom, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and I exported what I believe to have been the first Manuelli to Rejkiavik, Iceland, something which I'm very proud of.

I supplied my great friend and comrade the late Nick Gardner through 2000 and 2001, I believe he was then supplied by Ron Neilson up to his untimely death.

I will be back in business shortly and will make a full direct announcement. I will close the current pole and this thread.

Kind regards,
Jose Tuset
[/quote]

LOL This thread just keeps getting more silly!
You say that you were in business from 1997 to 2002, yet the two threads you cite for credibility are dated in 2004. I'm not sure what to believe in this thread. At this point, the only thing that I am certain of is that the OP is a knucklehead.
[/quote]

Hi,

I closed the Piranha Boutique Europe site in late 2002 and that was my core business. However, I did continue to sell the odd Serra/Pygo until 2004, but in no great quantities and to a handful of customers that just e-mailed me personally and placed orders.

Regards,
Jose


----------



## Jared Prentice (May 10, 2009)

No0dles said:


> NICK G started the uk piranha club in 2005 and passed away in dec. 2006 and from what i know he didnt have many options in providing the uk with many piranhas, actually only two options at the time that i know of and i know he got shipments from an importer in europe somewhere. dont know if it was from piranha boutique europe but yeah...


Hi,

That´s right, Nick originally started the UK piranha club around 2005 and then created Piranha Hut UK and passed away in 2006. however, Nick was stocking piranha and selling well before 2005--all be it in small numbers. He was particularly keen on Brandti, they were his passion and he was the nicest guy you could ever meet.

His business was predominantly in the UK and as you correctly state he had very few options for getting his stock. I provided him with 3 or 4 medium sized orders (about 30 or 40 fish per order). I believe he then went on to form a partnership with Ron Neilsen, whom I think was his primary provider.

We then made a "gentlemans" agreement that I would not sell in the UK market and that I would pass all orders I received for the UK to him, with exception of orders that he could not dispatch due to not having the particular fish in stock or that the customer was too far away to pick up the fish--I would serve those customers by air freight. In exchange he would pass me all orders and enquiries that were from customers ouside the U.K.

Regards,
Jose


----------



## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

So the whole point of this thread is to see what the most popular P is because the OP is going to sell them? Thats what I get from this. If thats the case why didnt you just ask a simple question of what the two most popular P's are, instead of dragging this thread on and on about random info on P's? Over thinking this a little?


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Ok....Im going to shut this down. Jose is legit....I have seen threads about his business although that was a few years ago. What his intentions are now...not really concerned about it. But I am not going to have people advertising a soon to be business that will be competing with our current sponsors.


----------

