# Alright, Where Do I Go From Here?



## TRIG

I want my Brandtii tank to be a nice planted tank but I am having some questions. The tank is 55g with a 48" current orbit light with 4x64 watt bulbs (I only turn two on). Its planted with a little more than two inches of caribsea tornado beach tank. In the past, I sucessfully kept a 90g plated tank with this setup. I want to know if you guys think this will be ok or will I absolutely need to get Co2 or different substrate? I have been having some hair algae problems but it seems to be dying off now. Not really sure what I wanna do with this setup specifically, I just know I want to have a planted tank. I'll try ad get some pictures up soon.


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## amazonjungle

Looking at the picture of the sand type I can compare it to mine. your substrate doesn't seem TOO fine. check out how planted MY 60 gallon is.

as for the lights..could you provide a pic? I know that plants can't live very well under certain dimmed lights, but I am just unfamiliar with that model.


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## TRIG

well heres a picture of the light


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## amazonjungle

based on what I see you can keep plants alive in your tank with the lighting you have and the substrate as well.

what plants were you thinking of having?

I like hornwurt. you can see my tanks so full i had to take out 5 of them

also, heres a list of plants that can grow in lesser lights. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=17

hornwurt is included there! its my fav..


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## DiPpY eGgS

If the tank is growing plants with out issue, then there is no problem.

If your algea is dying, then something is going right, and you shouldn't need to change anything


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## TRIG

What about if I want to grow some of the more demanding varieties of plants? Maybe rotalia or some of the more reddish colored plants. Also, if I did decide to go with Co2, would I definitely need a new substrate or will the sand be doable? Is there are way for me to tell how much I should be dosing fertilizers?


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## DiPpY eGgS

TRIG said:


> What about if I want to grow some of the more demanding varieties of plants? Maybe rotalia or some of the more reddish colored plants. Also, if I did decide to go with Co2, would I definitely need a new substrate or will the sand be doable? Is there are way for me to tell how much I should be dosing fertilizers?


More demanding plants = more demanding tank specs. It depends on what _Rotala_ species you are talking about, because some are demanding, and some aren't so demanding.
If you want thick, dense growth, maybe you should think about going with higher lighting, and CO2.
It definitely takes some getting used to, so expect the worse, and hope for the best, and you should be ok with it.
You can do sand with CO2, but most high tech guys use sand as a decorative front, and where the plants are planted, use planted aquarium substrate--(using cardboard or something to separate the 2 when setting up the tank)

Dosing fertilizers can get almost like feeding your fish, you have to get used to what they are sucking up, and keeping an eye on everything else.
If you have 5-15ppm nitrate, you get used to trying to keep it hovering right around there, same with phosphate, but it needs to be .5-2ppm.
I dose extra potassium for healthy stems, (you can go up to 20ppm with that, but I don't use a test kit.)
Iron and micro nutrients, I just dose, and if the plants are looking pale or white instead of green, I dose extra iron.

Hope that helped


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## TRIG

Yes, thanks, that is very helpful. One of my main concerns was the substrate because I feel like it would be such a pain to remove it all then add some plant substrate. When you say I Should use higher lighting, did you mean that I should use my light to it's full potential by turning on the other two lights? Or did you mean that I should get a stronger light altogether? So many options for Co2 man, I feel like I could read everything available on the internet and still go into it feeling uncomfortable.


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## DiPpY eGgS

TRIG said:


> Yes, thanks, that is very helpful. One of my main concerns was the substrate because I feel like it would be such a pain to remove it all then add some plant substrate. When you say I Should use higher lighting, did you mean that I should use my light to it's full potential by turning on the other two lights? Or did you mean that I should get a stronger light altogether? So many options for Co2 man, I feel like I could read everything available on the internet and still go into it feeling uncomfortable.


Yeah, seriously, nothing can really prepare you for jumping in to a high lighted planted aquarium.
There are guidelines you need to follow, and there will be things you will have to try to help save your tank at times.
Most possibly in the very beginning.. lol

You don't have to go with high lighting unless you want to use CO2, and _more demanding plants._
That is the only reason you should use high light.
Yes, all you would have to do is use the other 2 lights in it. Make sure they are between 5000k and 10000k (optimum 6700k)
About the Co2, use whatever setup you feel comfy with, as long as you are getting enough dissolved CO2 in the water(30ppm), and it is circulating, you should be good.

Please don't make the mistake of going with high light +co2, and not have lots of plant mass to start with. 
It is one of the worst things to do. If you don't have enough plants from the beginning, you will be fighting algae from close to the start, and it could discourage you, and make you want to throw your effort in the trash.


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## Guest

If you're thinking about CO2 I recommend going with a good pressurised set up from the beginning, avoid cheaper regulators and solenoids as they tend to break and cost more in the long run. With lighting, Dippy Eggs pretty much explained it all, I also recommend looking at some par charts for the lighting as the distance from light source to the substrate plays a key role in how much light you need. With a newer tank, I like to avoid dosing any fertz for the first week or two to avoid algae, I also use fast growers like Hornwort & Anacharis which spread like weeds. They're great beginner plants and very useful to out compete algae in the beginning stages till you fine tune your set up.

For the substrate, you have plenty of options and whether you want to switch or not all depends on what you're trying to grow and how much time your willing to spend on the tank. Sand is fine most of the time, but like Dippy mentioned, it's mostly for aesthetics.

I definitely recommend reading around and understanding how a planted tank works, learn the basics of fert dosing, CO2 diffusion, lighting, also read some tank journals to learn where people went wrong and what they did to correct them. There are a lot of different methods to keeping a lush planted tank, all of them have there pros and cons, it's really up to you to decide what method you go with.

Good luck.


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## TRIG

I appreciate all of the the advice guys. I just want to make sure that you know I have a 55g and if I run all four lightbulbs it will be more that 4 watts per gallon, is that still ok with Co2 and lots of plants? I don't plan on getting any super demanding plants (at least I think) the hardest I am considering getting right now is maybe some rotala indica. Right now though I have a bunch of broad leaf saggitaria, some crypts, a couple anubias nana, and a ton of java ferns and hornwart. So traveller, do you think I'd be fine with sand? I have read so much on all of the topics you listed and I still don't feel comfortable. Even with the tank journals, I have read a lot but I feel like people's setups are either mediocre or stunningly beautiful. I haven't ever really seen one that went totally wrong and overgrown with algae (maybe that's a good thing). Can anyone think of some instances where I definitely should not have sand and would want a substrate?


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## TRIG

oh yea, how do you guys feel about milwaukee regulator and controller, and an ista reactor?


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## amazonjungle

TRIG said:


> oh yea, how do you guys feel about milwaukee regulator and controller, and an ista reactor?


ph controllers are nice but really not needed. good luck.








They do wear out after a couple of years and give the wrong pH reading.

keep that in mind









also, I read on another forum someone writing this: Now the fun comes. Soon you'll want a co2 set up, then you'll want lights, then you'll want more plants, then you'll want more tanks......

Are you sure you want a pH controller?

lol!

somebody please correct me if you think in dead wrong


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## TRIG

amazonjungle said:


> oh yea, how do you guys feel about milwaukee regulator and controller, and an ista reactor?


ph controllers are nice but really not needed. good luck.








They do wear out after a couple of years and give the wrong pH reading.

keep that in mind









also, I read on another forum someone writing this: Now the fun comes. Soon you'll want a co2 set up, then you'll want lights, then you'll want more plants, then you'll want more tanks......

Are you sure you want a pH controller?

lol!

somebody please correct me if you think in dead wrong
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure what your saying but if you are trying to tell me that this is an addicting hobby then you are 100% right. In my prime I had 10 tanks including a couple 250 g tanks, believe me I know...


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## Guest

pH controller isn't necessary to have but it's nice if you have the extra cash. You'll also want to get a drop checker so you can measure the CO2 levels in the tank, any brand will do. For the reactor, I've seen a few videos about it, looks good, although you could DIY one if you wanted but once again, if you have the cash go for it. Milwaukee regulators are good, rarely hear any complaints about them and you can find them for cheap on eBay. You'll also want some check valves, you can get a good brass one that will last a while, but I just cheap out and buy the plastic ones in bulk lol.

I've grown various plants in sand, and my only real complaint is root growth being compacted (amazon swords) and having to constantly stuff root tabs into it due to sand being inert. I personally like flourite, it has a natural look, slightly larger grain so it doesn't kick up easy and it absorbs like a sponge. Substrate is really personal choice, read up on the various substrates and decide what's best for you.


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## DiPpY eGgS

TRIG said:


> I appreciate all of the the advice guys. I just want to make sure that you know I have a 55g and if I run all four lightbulbs it will be more that 4 watts per gallon, is that still ok with Co2 and lots of plants? I don't plan on getting any super demanding plants (at least I think) the hardest I am considering getting right now is maybe some rotala indica. Right now though I have a bunch of broad leaf saggitaria, some crypts, a couple anubias nana, and a ton of java ferns and hornwart. So traveller, do you think I'd be fine with sand? I have read so much on all of the topics you listed and I still don't feel comfortable. Even with the tank journals, I have read a lot but I feel like people's setups are either mediocre or stunningly beautiful. I haven't ever really seen one that went totally wrong and overgrown with algae (maybe that's a good thing). Can anyone think of some instances where I definitely should not have sand and would want a substrate?


Nice to see ppl chiming in to help.

Are there 2 plugs for your lights? If so, you could run them on 2 seperate timers, which would be perfect, because over 4wpg is simply a lot of light. 
If you go with that much light, I will tell you that you need to have A LOT of fast growers in your tank, and A LOT of plant bulk. You will have to have at least 60-75% of your tank loaded with plants (and MOST of those fast growers)to not have many issues in the beginning.
As Trav said, don't dose ferts for a week or so, unless the plants are showing you otherwise.
You didn't see tanks overgrown with algae, because it makes for a bad picture.. lol
My tanks have been wrecked with algae, and I was embarrassed to post pics of it.

I just read, and did what I had to to overcome it.

As we have said, Sand is fine, but inert. It has no benefit for plants at all. Not a problem, but in a high lighted tank, you kind of want everything to be working for you.

Low to medium light is great with sand, but in high light, most folks use sand in the front (or something a bit more creative), and use cardboard or another material to separate sand from substrate, then remove the cardboard. 
With a P tank, this is not really good to do, because the fish is big and aggressive.
You will have tons of substrate on your sand in no time, and you will be picking it out every other day lol
but you can use sand, and make a journal so we can see how it goes! It shouldn't be too bad for you.
You can feed your plants from the water column


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## amazonjungle

TRIG said:


> oh yea, how do you guys feel about milwaukee regulator and controller, and an ista reactor?


ph controllers are nice but really not needed. good luck.








They do wear out after a couple of years and give the wrong pH reading.

keep that in mind









also, I read on another forum someone writing this: Now the fun comes. Soon you'll want a co2 set up, then you'll want lights, then you'll want more plants, then you'll want more tanks......

Are you sure you want a pH controller?

lol!

somebody please correct me if you think in dead wrong
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure what your saying but if you are trying to tell me that this is an addicting hobby then you are 100% right. In my prime I had 10 tanks including a couple 250 g tanks, believe me I know...
[/quote]

lool yeah dude, but its such an awesome hobby.


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## TRIG

Thanks again guys for being so helpful, I just have a few last questions. I do have two switches on my light so I could put a second timer on it if I want. Would it be better to keep it the way it is (just two of the four possible lights on) or to have a burst of light for a few hours in the middle of the day (both options include Co2) and if so how long should the second set of lights be on for? Also, how much easier does a Co2 controller make it. Do you guys think I am better off spending the $100 or so for a controller or can I get by just fine with a drop checker? Any other tidbits you can think of would be great!


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## DiPpY eGgS

TRIG said:


> Thanks again guys for being so helpful, I just have a few last questions. I do have two switches on my light so I could put a second timer on it if I want. Would it be better to keep it the way it is (just two of the four possible lights on) or to have a burst of light for a few hours in the middle of the day (both options include Co2) and if so how long should the second set of lights be on for? Also, how much easier does a Co2 controller make it. Do you guys think I am better off spending the $100 or so for a controller or can I get by just fine with a drop checker? Any other tidbits you can think of would be great!


If you want more demanding plants, it's a good idea to do a burst. The reason I say that is because if you have all the lights on all day, it might be hard to deal with, especially in the beginning.
If you don't go with more demanding plants, no need, unless you want explosive growth.
I run my lights for a total of 8 hrs. 
2 hrs 110w, then 4 hrs w/ Co2 & 220w, then last 2 hrs no CO2, and the other set of 110w stay on.
I'd say a drop checker will work fine, but I just set my bubble counter, and check my KH vs pH for my CO2 totals.


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## TRIG

And what size tank do you have? If I did a burst for a few hours during the day it would be the like 250 watts, and that's on my 55 gallon. Also, I'm a little confused about drop checkers, I hear a lot of people say that they check for only pH or only for KH or if you combine a few ingredients it will test for Co2. About how long did it take you to time everything out like that?


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## DiPpY eGgS

TRIG said:


> And what size tank do you have? If I did a burst for a few hours during the day it would be the like 250 watts, and that's on my 55 gallon. Also, I'm a little confused about drop checkers, I hear a lot of people say that they check for only pH or only for KH or if you combine a few ingredients it will test for Co2. About how long did it take you to time everything out like that?


I have a 75g
You need a chart to test for CO2, with KH and pH.
I have been doing planted tanks for about 6 years now, so I have been tried n tested with many tanks, and many problems. And lots of success!








I used to run high light for 12 hrs a day, just blasting away, but now I have more limited time, and can't spend all night trimming and replanting.

You can surely use all of your light, you just have to *pack your tank* with fast growing plants, and make SURE all your params are optimum, and stay on it, and find what you need to dose every day to keep it running smooth.


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