# this can't be right



## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

Ok cycling my 65 still. 2 weeks now. I haven't noticed anything different since about the first few days. My ammonia is 0 - nitrite 1.0 and nitrate 5.0. This is everyday when I get home. This morning I decided to test, has been only 15 hours instead of 24. Ammonia at 0 already. I have noticed too, that getting it up to 1.0-1.5 takes about twice the amount (at least) that the cycling 101 says. I have waited about 45min to an hour to test amm. again after adding. Have tried different sides of tank, right above p-head and at the other end. Something has to be eating the ammoina but why are my nitrite/nitrate readings not budging. Ph has been 7.2 since day 1. Totally confused here.


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## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

Anyone? Should I add ammonia twice a day? Anyone have these parameters while cycling with bio-spira?


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

hmm, not sure, but by any chance you have plants in your tank?


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## Elongatus cockus (May 28, 2005)

I had the same problem when I first started off. You're not adding enough ammonia.

Also use Bio spira. Best decision you'll ever make.


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## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

Gravel and that's it so far, no plants or other decor. 2 heaters, 2 AC110 filters with extra biomax in place of carbon. Biospira added 2 weeks ago.


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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

sh*t, it's going to take three months to cycle that way. you have no ammonia source (nothings eating it because there's virtually none there). to build up the bacteria that consume ammonia and begin the cycle, either put drops of pure ammonia in your tank or add some cheap fish. do that and you'll be set-


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## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm adding *PURE* ammonia. Going by Doc's Fishless Cycling 101 and getting it to read 1.5 everyday and as of yesterday it's gonna be twice a day.


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

The best way to quickly cycle a tank is to use TLC live bacteria, toss in a piece of unseasoned, uncooked fish or shrimp, and have ALOT of aeration.
This is the method I use when I set up all of my customers tanks, and they are fully cycled within 1.5 weeks.


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## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

I'd say also try adding some fish as well....

Go to Petco and buy some assorted tetras for less than $2. each... get like 6.

Thats how I cycled with Bio-Spira and it worked great!!


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

Civic Disobedience said:


> I'd say also try adding some fish as well....
> 
> Go to Petco and buy some assorted tetras for less than $2. each... get like 6.
> 
> Thats how I cycled with Bio-Spira and it worked great!!


There's no need to add live fish if you use a bacteria starter, if you throw in something for the growing bacteria to "eat".
The decomposing of the fresh fish or shrimp is enough. Actually it's better.


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## mylesc99 (Sep 5, 2005)

Good Point...


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## bigbipo (Feb 12, 2005)

Marc Weiss is ALSOME!! I use it and see INSTANT RESULTS!! It will read false readings if your tank is cycling but u will almost instantly see the signs of stress go away(and fish instantly start eating)!! I used this on every water change and new tanks... Its a hell of alot better then spending 30bux for like 100 gallons worth of bio spira, Marc Wiess also acts as a filter booster and u will notice ur water cyrstal clear over ngiht.. I also get mine from ebay for like 8bux ITS WELL WORTH it, im telling you u will watch ur fish calm down instantly also mine turn realy dark when I add it.
I feel like im a reseller or someshit here, but i truely love it and hope I never have to worry about not being able to get this stuff if im the only one buying it....


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## Piranhaz 411 (Oct 8, 2005)

im with mylesc99


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Your ammonia is not spiking because it is being consumed, like it should be. The cycle is obviously working because you have a nitrite reading. The nitrates at this point are probably from your tap.



*DaisyDarko* said:


> There's no need to add live fish if you use a bacteria starter, if you throw in something for the growing bacteria to "eat".
> The decomposing of the fresh fish or shrimp is enough. Actually it's better.


He has "something for the bacteria to eat", pure ammonia.

Adding fish, or food, at this point will do nothing.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

To add what the good doc said and to answer one of your questions the reason why your nitrites have not budged is because there are more than one "nitrifying bacteria". One eats the ammonia which is obviously caught up colonizing and the other that eats the nitrItes. They have not caught up yet. Be patient. You will be done soon enough. If you double up on the ammonia your cycle will be brought to a crawl. By now Mortimer your probably too the point where you should be cutting the dosage in half, not increasing. Also if you test your tap water and it contains zero nitrAtes then you are definitely on the way.


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## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

Ok, thanks. I did start to add more this weekend and tested. Added at 7AM - PPM not quite 2(after adding). 4PM checked - PPM back to 0. Then I added same amount again. At 10PM test was not quite 1ppm. So in about 8 hours the ammonia is gone. I am seeing an increase in nitrites and nitrates same. Should I keep adding till nitrites peak and then drop? And then I'd imagine a good nitrate reading. I appreciate the help.

Oh yeah, and it seems to be taking about 2 tablespoons to get a reading of 1.0. Seems to me to be a lot. I waited about 45 minutes after dosing to be sure it was circulated too. Been getting the same readings everytime after adding.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Mortimer said:


> Ok, thanks. I did start to add more this weekend and tested. Added at 7AM - PPM not quite 2(after adding). 4PM checked - PPM back to 0. Then I added same amount again. At 10PM test was not quite 1ppm. So in about 8 hours the ammonia is gone. I am seeing an increase in nitrites and nitrates same. Should I keep adding till nitrites peak and then drop? And then I'd imagine a good nitrate reading. I appreciate the help.
> 
> Oh yeah, and it seems to be taking about 2 tablespoons to get a reading of 1.0. Seems to me to be a lot. I waited about 45 minutes after dosing to be sure it was circulated too. Been getting the same readings everytime after adding.


If your nitrItes are at 4 ppm or above i would cut ammonia dosage in half.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

When you see your nitrites PEAK it's time to cut in half. Like Jerry said, 4ppm is a good number to start cutting back at.

At this point you should be adding around 50 drops once a day.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> When you see your nitrites PEAK it's time to cut in half. Like Jerry said, 4ppm is a good number to start cutting back at.
> 
> At this point you should be adding around 50 drops once a day.


Don't you mean 20. 65 gallon divided by 10 times 3 = 19.5


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

jerry_plakyda said:


> When you see your nitrites PEAK it's time to cut in half. Like Jerry said, 4ppm is a good number to start cutting back at.
> 
> At this point you should be adding around 50 drops once a day.


Don't you mean 20. 65 gallon divided by 10 times 3 = 19.5

:rasp:
[/quote]

LOL actually NO. I always do, and usually recommend 6-8 drops per 10 gallon. Which is 52. What I was saying is that this is what he should be adding pre spike.

After spike, 20-25 will suffice.

Dam JP, you smartass.


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## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

Ok, after 3 days of adding so much ammonia to KEEP it at 1.5-2.0. That was 3 times a day. 3rd time at 10 was half a dose. I think I missed the nitrite peak somewhere. I never saw nitrites much over 2.0. But anyway, coming home today ammonia 0 again, nitrites a bit lower than 2.0 and nitrAtes at 80+. I think I'm getting somewhere. My chart for nitrites gives one color for 2.0 and the next at 5.0 So maybe the - bit higher than 2.0 I wrote on my chart might have been even 4. That's the highest I saw it. Anyway I see a ton of nitrates so that's what I want. Just have to wait until nitrites are 0. Whew! My theory is I wasn't adding near enough ammonia to KEEP it around 1-2ppm. I got it there and waited till next day same time. I'm sure every setup is different though. But thanks for the help. Gotta hurry and figure out what kind of P to get now. Definately a learning experience. And frustrating cause I want a fish so bad. I'll know next time though. And thanks to you all again.









I'm still a bit confused as to why I needed to add so much ammonia to get it to read 1.0. Took me 2. My online conversion chart says that a Tablespoon is 288 drops. Took me 2. I highly reccomend testing ammonia about 30-45 min after adding and noting how much it takes for your own tank.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Mortimer said:


> I'm still a bit confused as to why I needed to add so much ammonia to get it to read 1.0. Took me 2. My online conversion chart says that a Tablespoon is 288 drops. Took me 2. I highly reccomend testing ammonia about 30-45 min after adding and noting how much it takes for your own tank.


Your ammonia source may have a lower concentration, or could be weaker due to age.

I have always used this method, and have done it for others, and many here on PFURY have used it without issue.

You are not supposed to get the ammonia up to 1.5-2 automatically. It is not an initial spike, it is gradual. As the bacteria colonize, it lowers the number, until it finally has the capacity to keep it at zero.

Obviously your bacteria colonized quick enough to keep the ammonia levels in check.


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## Uncle Rico (Sep 4, 2005)

Did you at anything like Amquel or another chloramine remover. Often chloramine removers will also remove the ammonia (since ammonia is part of the chloramine bond). If you add it to water without ammonia or chloramines it will just sit in the water and will neutralize any ammonia that is produced in the tank until it(the Amquel) is exhausted. You shouldnt add chloramine removers when doing a fishless cycle.


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## Mortimer (Jul 28, 2005)

I didn't add anything to my water when I started. It was well water. I did make the mistake of leaving the carbon in the filter, till I realized that it was supposed to be removed. That was in there for about 2 days. Was a little worried about that having an effect. But this morning I was anxious to check again and I have 0 ammonia - nitrates not quite as dark as the darkest color which is 160, the next lower is 80, and barely any nitrites. I'm there dude!

But one more quick question. Do I do the big water change now or wait till a day or 2 before getting my fish? Gonna have to find and order my P.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

As soon as your nitrites are zero do a large water change now so you can bring the nitrates to below 20 ppm. Continue ammonia treatments at half dosage until the day your fish arrives. You may need to do a small water change before acclimating him.


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## Steve7 (Jun 20, 2005)

hmm when i got my 30gallon i didnt even cycle it i filled it up waited 24 hours and put the p's in and they did fine, so i dont cycle anymore.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Steve7 said:


> hmm when i got my 30gallon i didnt even cycle it i filled it up waited 24 hours and put the p's in and they did fine, so i dont cycle anymore.


You got LUCKY.









And you don't know how it will effect them later in life


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