# are piranhas intelligent or not?



## mikeredbellie (Aug 13, 2006)

i am just curious to know if piranhas are clever or dumb its just that mine swim into the side of the tank all the time its gotta hurt em and i was thinking that maybe they would learn from their mistakes. maybe just mine are not to bright.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

I don't know if piranha clever or dumd, but I do know every single piranha have different indiviual personality.....for sample.

I got my 14" rhomb that always active, finger chase and eat well...very out going fish. Other hands my 12" Diamond Rhomb that not shy but not finger chaser. very different.


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## rone (Jul 10, 2006)

thats funny u say that... i have a 14 inch diamond rhom and he is the most aggressive ive owned... then again i had a cariba that had to be kept alone because it was soo aggressive... i really think its by the fish... i have a large cariba that knows when its feeding time... he chases all the outher fish to the outher end of the tank till he gets his or her feed in.... and it also depends on what u are compaireing the fish to... a cichlid in my oponion is smarter then a red or any piranha... but also 1/2 of the fish







ive learned that piranha learn from repition ... and most piranha are wild so its like tryin to train a wild dog.. sometimes it works sometimes it dont


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## bootdink (Jan 17, 2007)

my reds are pretty clever...they know wwhen im standing in front of their tank its feeding time and they all come to the center where i fed them...and when im crouched down with my face infront of the tank they just go about there business swimming around...its kinnda funny actually


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## Rice & Beanz (Oct 30, 2006)

I dont think they are clever, its not me that lives in a glass box!


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## Ottawagoa (Jan 11, 2007)

After watching 2 seperate groups of piranha I have to say they have some form of intelligence that occurcs when the eye's recognize a pattern or shape and Instinct matches it to something it's been programmed to do:

Ie : Eye's see fish
Brain interprits (spelling?) fish 
Instinct recognizes fish pattern
Instinct marks it as "Food"
Intelligence or what I call "animal common sense" kicks in
Piranha uses it's senses and "Common-sense" to size up the situation and see if it's viable.
Piranha attacks and eats food or doesn't due to some other circumstance.

Where I really tend to see intelligence is group formation and heirarchy changes, when the piranha not only has to size up his competition but the situation surrounding the conflict and how far he wants to go in, when it's become to much or when he's got the upper hand and takes it full force.

Beyond that, I doubt the piranha is thinking anything else when it looks at us than "Is it going to eat me, can I eat it, does it want my territory?" and once those 3 situations have been answered in it's mind it will either A) freak out and try to hid or B) be inquisitive and find out what you are.

I tend to lean towards the notion that a good 80% of piranhas would recognize their reflection in a mirror, unless instinct is in full swing or they are very hungry and their minds are stuck on a certain situation.

In the fish world, yea they're pretty smart, but scavengers almost always are, they gotta be crafty to survive.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

well....I know they have instincts......and they do have some mental capabilities........I seen a cariba grab a terns tail and spin in circles with him in his mouth....when he let go, there was no fin damage......so something there told the fish to not bite down too hard and give the tern a warning.


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## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

i think they just have there natural instincts and thats it,and that there aggresion gives them a little personality as to if they finger chase or not and so on.beyond what i said i dont think that they are that bright.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

I agree, all they have is natural instincts. I do not believe they have very much intelligence at all...afterall, they are just fish.
~Taylor~


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

This one time I had dropped a piece of shrimp in the tank and a dollar had grabbed it in its mouth. The P's which are of the same size are kinda slow compared to dollars, and one of them who was chasing the dollar pulled some kinda trick on it to get that piece of shrimp. It kinda stopped chasing the dollar when it was goin to pass piece of driftwood on the right side and then it darted from the left of the drifwood and snatched the shrimp away! Could be highly coincidental or just some extension of their instincts.


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## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

from what i see in my tank piranhas have incredible natural instinct.just amazing.but other then that there no brighter then a 5 watt light bulb.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> taylorhedrich Posted Today, 12:14 PM
> I agree, all they have is natural instincts. I do not believe they have very much intelligence at all...afterall, they are just fish.
> ~Taylor~


Ivan Pavlov. Do a google and read his theory.


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

i think they are very smart


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

coutl said:


> > taylorhedrich Posted Today, 12:14 PM
> > I agree, all they have is natural instincts. I do not believe they have very much intelligence at all...afterall, they are just fish.
> > ~Taylor~
> 
> ...


I did a search, but I'm not finding anything from him about fish...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I did a search, but I'm not finding anything from him about fish...


 Of ocurse not, its mostly about a dog, but it applies to fish as well. It is what is called phylogenetics; evolutionary development. Fish have traits that are passed down in order to survive. Some instinctual others are learned (conditioned). Pavlov dog would salivate when the bell rang because it meant food. The dog learned this (short term). Fishes have little to no memory that probably lasts only a few seconds. But you can condition them to feed at one spot. Try it and then try to move the feeding somewhere else. They will be confused for a few moments.

Some consider this intelligence. The only fish really researched in terms of intelligence are Mormyrids. They in fact do have a higher brain function.


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## eightreds (Mar 2, 2007)

my reds... have figured out when to eat my crabs...lol as soon as the crabs start to molt they will jus sit there and watch until its out of the shell the eat the damn things... that pretty smart imo


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> eightreds Posted Today, 09:40 PM
> my reds... have figured out when to eat my crabs...lol as soon as the crabs start to molt they will jus sit there and watch until its out of the shell the eat the damn things... that pretty smart imo


Not really when you consider the shell is decaying and the piranha picks up the smell. That is not intelligence. That is hunger.


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## 77gp454 (Feb 18, 2007)

I got a degree in psych. We studied a lot of animal stuff. Pavlov's dogs, Skinner's mice, etc. You can condition bevaviors. Positive reinforcement (such as a treat) for doing the desired behavior. Negative reinforcement for unwanted behaviors. I worked a lot with my Ps while I was in college, not as much now. Mainly with my big guy and my original P. I started showing them my thumbs up and started a quick side to side movement and would feed them right after. After some time they would get excited when I did that because they knew what was coming. They also identified with the orange container I keep pellets in. I can have it behind my back and as soon as they saw it they got excited and did thier little "happy P dance". When my big guy gives attitude I yell at him and he knows whats up. I used to get right up to the glass when he was doing it, now all I have to do is raise my voice. I also do this when he is getting in the way of me cleaning my tank. He usually goes to the other side. If you condition your P they can actually be pretty intellegent. I used to have different types of fish growning up, none that I would compare to a piranha in intellegence. Thats why I have stuck with them since I got my first one.


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## shaas3 (Sep 10, 2006)

intelligence in animals is kind of dependent on a lot of factors. Are piranhas intelligent compared to what? Obviously, if compared to people, then no. Are they intelligent compared to other animals? Not really, there are plenty of other animals that are smarter. If you're comparing them to other fish, then they might be middle of the road. However, fish like piranhas don't need to be smart to survive in the wild, they just need to be faster than their prey and faster than their predators. I tend to think fish in general dont have a lot going on upstairs (i know there are exceptions). Fish only really use their instincts and some form of memory. They don't display any form of problem solving skills (as far as I've seen) like dolphins, parrots, humans, etc. seem to use in everyday life.


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