# blue green algae (bacteria)



## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm running a 100 gallon tank with white sand as the substrate. I've got no nitrites and no ammonia but my nitrates is at 20 ppm! It comes out the tap at 10 ppm









In the recent week or so I've had an explosion of blue green algae which I have religiously cleaned of my sand every day . Last night I did a 25 % water change and cleaned the sand again I tried to get all the green algae up but some bits are impossible to lift of the sand.

The pic below shows what I have been greeted with this morning









Everyones help is greatly appreciated if you know how to get rid of this stuff let me know ...I'm really fed up about it


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

20 PPM of Nitrates is fine. Normal tap water in the U.S. must be 10 ppm or below. The only way to lower the nitrates is more frequent water changes.

Is the tank getting direct sunlight? Maybe you should also try dimming your tanklights, or running them less often.


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## jackburton (Nov 25, 2003)

i had this prblem and its not nice sunlight strong lights.and being on to long r major factors also if ita new tank could be a algie blowm

youll have to get rid of it all as algie has like spurs or sumthing that produce it


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

Nice tank.








Too bad about the algae. Your nitrate level is relatively low, so it's not a water-quality issue.

Do you use any fertilizer-type products for your plants? 
What kind of lights do you use? How long are they on for?


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## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

Cheers Bullsnake









I use Leaf Zone by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals every week 50 ml!

I keep my lights on from 0900 hrs till 2100 hrs.

The lights I use are the ones supplied with the tank ... a rena 120. Not sure what they are though ....one is white the other is a pale yellow. I have a total of 4 lights with my tank but only use 2 of them as the p's arent too keen about lots of light!

The tank is in a well lit room but I've only noticed this problem in the past two weeks and its been set up since the end of august.

It is really depressing as no matter how much tank maintenance I do it still comes back with a vengeance









I'm against using chemicals to get rid of it and would prefer a natural alternative ... I got a bristle nosed catfish to help but he wouldnt touch it and this morning he had been duly despatched by my p's







just after I found out that this type of algae / bacteria will not disappear with the help of algae eaters and it also replecates every 20 mins.

If anyone has overcome this problem then please help.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

I am running the same fight right now and unfortunately i am losing as well. If you figure it out first please get back to me on it :laugh: .


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

I found this a while back on "the krib" when I had the same problem you do. I did what he said and followed his dosing schedule and have been b-g algae free since.

"BLUE-GREEN "ALGAE" IS NOT AN ALGAE.

Thats right. The correct name is blue-green bacteria
(or cyanobacteria for those latin freaks out there). So
without going into a lot of details, blue-green algae is a
bacteria so an outbreak of the stuff in your tank is actually
an infection.
It is important to know that blue-green bacteria
comprise a large and heterogeneus group of organisms. Not even
the color is the same. Some are green, some blue-green, and
some are red. They can be found almost everywhere in nature.
They are usually more tolerant to extreme environments than
"normal" algae and can be found in hot springs as well as
saline lakes. Drying your gravel and tank is subsequently not
an efficient way to get rid of them. Some species can even be
found in the middle of the dessert. Blue-green bacteria
efficiently absorbes light between 550-700 nm, which is
roughly the same as for plants and green algae.
As we all know, they thrive in warm water, rich in
nutrients. However, many blue-green bacteria is not dependent
on nitrite, nitrate, or ammonia, since they can use molecular
nitrogen (nitrogen fixation). This all leads to the well known
conclusion - once established in the tank, they are a pain in
%&#-%&. I wonder how many potential aquarium hobbyist has been
lost because their first tank became covered in green slime
within six month.

GRAM-NEGATIVE AND GRAM-POSITIVE BACTERIA.

Bacteria can be divided into two groups, either Gram-
negative (G-) or Gram-positive (G+). This classification is
based on if the bacteria stains (+) or not (-) in a special
staining technique - the Gram staining (invented by Christian
Gram). Positive or negative staining reaction reflects a
fundamental difference in the structure of the cell wall of
the bacteria.
ERYTHROMYCIN IS AN ANTIBIOTIC.
Erythromycin is more efficient towards G(+) bacteria
than G(-). It is one of the safest antibiotics, meaning that
it does not affect plants, fish or animals. Blue-green
bacteria belongs to the G(-) bacteria but it is a special case
with respect to sensitivity to antibiotics (i'm on thin ice
here, but I think I am correct). They are more sensitive to
erythromycin than other G(-) bacteria. Fortunately, the
bacteria important for the nitrogen cycle (your biofilter) are
of the G(-) type and are much less sensitive to erythromycin
than the blue-green bacteria. So your biological filter is
"fairly" safe.
The reason that some tanks experience an ammonia peak
after treatment with erythromycin is (probably) not because
the biological filter is non-functional. It is more likely
that it is because of the high content of protein released
from the dead blue-green bacteria which is broken down to
ammonia and/or nitrite by the "good" nitrifying bacteria in
your biofilter. This boost of protein to be broken down upsets
the finely tuned balance of different bacteria in your filter.
(Actually, if you killed of all bacteria in your tank and
filter, you would never get ammonia).
In many countries in Europe there are restrictions on
buying antibiotics. You usually need a prescription. I suggest
contacting a vet. If he can prescribe antibiotics for a mouse
I'm sure he can do the same for your tank. Remember, your tank
is infected.

WHAT NOT TO DO.

First a few things NOT to do (my own, very personal,
experience).

If you have an established infection, do not try to
get rid of it by turning the lights of. Most likely this will
get you into more trouble. Your going to kill of the "good"
algae and the plants, but the blue-green bacteria is going to
return when you turn the lights back on (usually more fiercly
than before).

Personally I don't like copper. Copper is poisonous to
everything - plants, fish, and bacteria. At least in Europe,
most "miracle" treatments you buy contains copper.

You could try manually removing the blue-green algae,
combined with extensive water changes. But in my experience
it's fruitless, unless you spend all your free time with your
fingers in the green slime. Ever tried to clean the stuff away
from Cabomba or Java fern? Then you know what I mean.

WHAT TO DO.

Of course, tank hygien is important. Regular water
changes and all that. But for those who has been doing it all
according to the textbook and still wondering if your doing
something wrong, don't despair, you have'nt been hit by a
blue-green curse.
Me myself, I get an infestation in about every second
tank (freshwater) I set up. These does not correlate to any
increase in ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate (I do not keep check
on phosphate, but I plan to). One exception is tanks with soft
and acid water. You rarely find blue-green bacteria in these
tanks since most bacteria, including blue-green, do not like
acid conditions.
The followin is my suggestion for battleing blue-green
algae:

First make sure that it is blue-green bacteria and not
the "normal" algae. Remember that erythromycin is ineffective
on anything but bacteria.

Day 1.
Add 2.5 mg/L erythromycin. If you have a protein
skimmer, turn it off. I believe it will inactive a lot of the
antibiotic through coprecipitation with protein. It will,
however, be very usefull later.

Day 2.
Add 2.5 mg/L erythromycin.

Day 3.
Now you should see a lot of dead blue-green bacteria
floating around in the tank. Increase filtration (a second
mechanical filter if possible) to get rid of it. If you have a
protein skimmer, turn it on. The critical thing now is to get
rid of as much protein (dead bacteria) as possible to avoid a
peak of ammonia.

Day 4.
Most blue-green bacteria should be dead by now. Try to
clean out as much as possible of the dead stuff. I use a jet
stream of water from the outlet of a canister filter to remove
it from plants and decorations. Combined with the second
mechanical filter, this works fine for me. Let the filter work
for a couple of hours then make a 50% water change. Add 2.5
mg/L erythromycin.

Day 5-7.
Wash the mechanical filter at least once a day. Keep
check on ammonia and nitrite but do not change any water
unless absolutely necessary. The extra filter can be removed
as soon as the water clears up.

Day 8.
Make a 30% water change. Add 1 mg/L erythromycin.

From now on, resume your normal maintenance.

The concentration I use is in theory a bit high and
getting up where it should starts having an effect also on G(-
) bacteria. When I started using erythromycin I had problems
using lower concentrations in the tank. It was not very
effective. It might be time to check it again.

One word of caution. Only use erythromycin when you
really need it or you might end up with blue-green bacteria
resistent to the antibiotic."

Best of luck, fight the good fight brother, let us know how it comes out.


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## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks bawb2u!

I'm off down the lfs to see if I can find any products containing ERYTHROMYCIN I really only wanted to add something like this as a last resort and had hoped some members had won the fight against this 3.5 billion year old bacteria before a natural way.

In the meantime I would still really appreciate hearing about other ways of ridding my tank of this sh*t.

Its a right eyesore and makes the water smell like a swamp (even though the water is crystal clear) and initially I was really fed up about it .... I even contemplated removing all the substrate, ornaments and plants and starting over!!

P.S. My bearded catfish is still alive







christ knows where he was hiding but hes going strong (got to get some algae wafers for the little sucker ...after all if the p's do nail him I want it to be nutritious and healthy for them







shame though hes a really lovely looking fish and one day I wouldnt mind keeping a breeding pair! )


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## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

Genin said:


> I am running the same fight right now and unfortunately i am losing as well. If you figure it out first please get back to me on it :laugh: .


 will do! In a funny way its good to hear someone else has got it too ... I thought I'd been cursed!


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

I tried everything else short of breaking the tank down and it came back virulently every time until I used Erythromicin (sp?). Maracyn, not Maracyn2 is good and if you can't find that try Avimycin for birds, it's the same med. I'm like you, I'd much rather not go with a chemical if there are other alternatives but in this case, I do think it's the only way to go. DON"T BREAK DOWN YOUR TANK, it just looks so damn good. Best of luck.


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## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

Bawb2u said:


> I tried everything else short of breaking the tank down and it came back virulently every time until I used Erythromicin (sp?). Maracyn, not Maracyn2 is good and if you can't find that try Avimycin for birds, it's the same med. I'm like you, I'd much rather not go with a chemical if there are other alternatives but in this case, I do think it's the only way to go. DON"T BREAK DOWN YOUR TANK, it just looks so damn good. Best of luck.


 Thanks mate! I tried to find some today but none at the lfs .. I'll try my vets!!

I went searching today and found that blue green algae thrives in anaerobic conditions so have checked my o2 levels, they are currently running at 8 ppm and the temp is 27degrees celcius so this is OK.

I have however attached the airline to my 802 powerhead and have also put in my old fluval 2plus internal filter with bubble making attachment. I have raised both to the top of the tank so that the surface water is moving constantly and bubbles are circulating throughout the entire tank. I hope that the blue green algae is put off by these high volumes of o2 and that I dont drive off all the co2 my plants will require!

I removed all visible algae from the substrate and ornaments so I will see in the morning if this has worked !


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## nl7wq (Nov 21, 2003)

on the adding O2 ... get some hydrogen peroxide and use 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons ...as the HP and water mix the Hp will break down and releaase water and O2 (water is h20 and HP is h3o) it will super saturate the water with O2 ... Mickey


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## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

nl7wq said:


> on the adding O2 ... get some hydrogen peroxide and use 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons ...as the HP and water mix the Hp will break down and releaase water and O2 (water is h20 and HP is h3o) it will super saturate the water with O2 ... Mickey


 Thanks for the info!









Increasing the levels of water movement/o2 saturation seems to have worked in keeping the ooze at bay! Its not got as dark green as previously noticed, however it is still present and I'm sure that if I do not keep moving the substrate and removing the green that forms every day then I will be swamped with it again!

I'm going to keep up with the maintenance every day this week and see what the outcome is on the weekend! I've also reduced the amount of food I give to my ps every day!

Its really taking the fun out of keeping fish though! It's more a chore than an enjoyment at the moment.


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