# P Autopsy



## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Hi, pretty simple question. I am interested in knowing how many of you have taken note of possible differences in your P's. Now over time we all suffer loses due to various reasons. Has anyone out there done a autopsy on their P to investigate the sex of their P and point out any observed differences. For some species of fish they can be vented to verify sex but as of right now no one is able to find a clue about sexing P's. Some species like the Maculipinnis are sexually dimorphic but rhoms, pygos, and other serras are not. I am hoping maybe a few people who have autopsied their P's after a lose could share their experiences. I know in some cases of pygos owns have lost a P here and there due to cannibalism and in some cases it was a female with eggs so it was obvious the sex in that case. In order for something to come of this i need as many cases as possible. I know some people have done it please step forward and share your experiences. The species, size, and possible cause of death if known. Thank you in advance and i apologize for not being a writer. Please discuss.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

Be civil.


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Average hobbists wouldn't know what they're looking at, if they did even look. The inside anatomy lay-out is available on some of these fish. I've cut a few up over the years for various reasons but have always been rbp.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

if you dissect one you can tell the sex and odds are anyone who has dissected had some clue to what they were looking for. i know this is a long shot question but hopefully someone who has experience will share. as of right now i plan to at some point in the near future do this myself i am doing this a precursor to my dissection.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

Some of know more then an average hobbiest











Tensa said:


> if you dissect one you can tell the sex and odds are anyone who has dissected had some clue to what they were looking for. i know this is a long shot question but hopefully someone who has experience will share. as of right now i plan to at some point in the near future do this *myself* i am doing this a precursor to my dissection.


*Clears throat*


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## Hogdog (Feb 1, 2010)

I've done it before when I suspected T.B, an autopsy on a Clown Loach confirmed it. It meant that I had to shut down the tank and start again but at least it solved the problem.

Not sure what good sexing a dead fish will do, breeding it could be tricky.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

Hogdog said:


> I've done it before when I suspected T.B, an autopsy on a Clown Loach confirmed it. It meant that I had to shut down the tank and start again but at least it solved the problem.
> 
> Not sure what good sexing a dead fish will do, breeding it could be tricky.


Its possible piranha can be sexed. We just may not know what to look for. We are also going to look into other subjects that have been questioned.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

yea like JZ said. im grasping at the possibility that we have overlooked something. and when you cut a fish open you should be able to see their reproductive organs and tell if its male or female. like with reds people have hunches as to tell the sex such as one sex growing larger then the other and being more round. stuff like that. thanks for posting sorry to hear about the TB. lets get some more people in here posting more about some P's!!!!


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## Alexx (Jan 20, 2006)

ive done a couple and frank (opefe) labled them the best he could

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/piraparts.html


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

thank you very much this is the information i was looking for. hopefully more people will post as well. did you have any observations of the P's posted above before they passed? also what was the cause of death if known? again thank you for posting.


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Good stuff Alex. I've got a couple of Elong's in the freezer, maybe I might use these as a reference if I ever decide...


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Come on Smoke you know you want to


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## BuckeyeGuy777 (Oct 30, 2010)

take one for the team smoke lol


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Hey I just might... Maybe this weekend, we will see


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

I would probally know what to look for, but i would never have the heart or stomach to cut open one of my fish.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

if they are already dead its for science so i dont mind. im not saying to doing it to a live specimen.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Well naturally, ive never heard of an Autopsy being done on a living being lol.
But i'm just too emotionally attached to my animals to desecrate their remains lol.


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## BuckeyeGuy777 (Oct 30, 2010)

the only reason i wouldnt do it is because it want to mount it or something


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Alexraptor said:


> the only reason i wouldnt do it is because it want to mount it or something


if you take pics and measure a taxidermist could still remake it


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## BuckeyeGuy777 (Oct 30, 2010)

good point


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## Hogdog (Feb 1, 2010)

Alexraptor said:


> Well naturally, ive never heard of an Autopsy being done on a living being lol.
> But i'm just too emotionally attached to my animals to desecrate their remains lol.


I'm not sentimental about my fish but I'd had the (huge) Clown Loach I did an autopsy on for over ten years and I was gutted when it died but I had to do an autopsy so that I could understand what was going on and perhaps save the others. As it happened I couldn't save the others but I could stop the problem (T.B) in it's tracks and save any fish that I may have purchased in the future. I don't think of it as desecration if it's for a good cause.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

yea im just trying to collect the info to maybe have a breakthrough for this hobby.


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## nick007x (Sep 9, 2005)

A couple years ago I started loosing my red shoal. After exhausting countless combinations of meds/treatments, when the next to last red began developing the same symptoms I knew his death was at that point inevitable and sacrificed him to possibly save the last one. I took him to a local university's livestock disease diagnostic center and had a necropsy, etc. done (they required a live specimen) for about $40. Apparently they don't get many fish (thoroughbred horses, and farm animals being the norm) so they actually used the opportunity to later run more complete/comprehensive testing/DNA sequencing, above and beyond what I paid for and were nice enough to share the results. Initial results confirmed my suspicions (TB), and the DNA tests later proved it and isolated the strain.

Also, the last red never developed TB. I can only attribute it to his being genetically "strong"--strong immune system, he doubled the size of his siblings at an early age and has always been a behemoth/tank of a fish.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

do you have any pics of the specific P you had tested? also do you know what the sex of it was?


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