# Fuge Questions



## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

im wondering if i have set up my fuge correctly. i added about 3" of aragalive sand then between 1 and 2 lbs of LR rubble. im waiting on some chaeto on monday or tuesday.

should i bother using the sand? should i go for fuge mud?

ive read that small volume fuges dont always benefit from deep sand beds in them...

also, what light cycle should my fuge be on? same as my tank? 24 hrs? 12 hours? less? im not quite sure what is right...ive read that some leave it on 24/7, some run them opposite of their main tank light cycle, and some run it with their main tank light cycle.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

If you have already added the sand and rubble to the fuge then leave it. I hear at fuge mud has to be replace after "X" amount of time as the nutrients in it are used up. IMO the sand and additional LR would work better. Since the overall volume of sand in a fuge is not that much, you can use 1" or 2" of sand in there. From the reports/articles that I have read most of the denitrofaction happens within the first 1" of sand anyways.

Fuge Lighting: You can do it numerous different ways. 
1. Use the same lighting schedule as your main tank
2. light the fuge 24/7
3. light the fuge on a reverse lighting cycle as your main tank.

If I were to pick, then I would go with number 3. Light the fuge on a reverse lighting cycle. By do that, it will help stablize your ph (since ph normally drops at night).


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

yeah. thats what i was reading (about the reverse light cycle). i might suck an inch of sand out of the fuge. that way i can add more chaeto.lol

right now my MH is on for only 4 hours (dont want to smoke the LR after it was in a curing tank for so long) and i am slowly increasing the time that it is on. so should i have the fuge running for the 20 hours that the MH isnt running? the white LEDs are on for 1 hour before and 1 hour after the MH goes off...so maybe should the fuge me on for about 18 hrs? that seems like a long time for the critters that may or may not live back there. nocturnal ones dont have as much time "out" and diurnal ones dont get enough rest.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Puff said:


> yeah. thats what i was reading (about the reverse light cycle). i might suck an inch of sand out of the fuge. that way i can add more chaeto.lol
> 
> right now my MH is on for only 4 hours (dont want to smoke the LR after it was in a curing tank for so long) and i am slowly increasing the time that it is on. so should i have the fuge running for the 20 hours that the MH isnt running? the white LEDs are on for 1 hour before and 1 hour after the MH goes off...so maybe should the fuge me on for about 18 hrs? that seems like a long time for the critters that may or may not live back there. nocturnal ones dont have as much time "out" and diurnal ones dont get enough rest.


i wouldnt worrry about making room to add more cheato just get a small clump ilke anough to cover half the surface, that stuff will grow and you will wondering why you have to pay for in the first place.. lfs should just give it away.. i think i paid 10 bucks for cheato and ive tossed out twice what i purchased the leds arent producing enough light to keep the ph from swinging. i would run the fuge the fuge light atarting 15 minute before the halde shuts off and fuge light shut off a few minutes after teh halide warms up.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

so run it for the full time that the lights are off?

im paying a guy 2$ for chaeto. might even be able to get a cheap frag off of him


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

You can run it the full time the MH are off, but as you increase the MH time you will also have to decrease the fuge time. Personally, I would just set the fuge light to a 12 photo period, and leave it alone. At 30 minute increases per day on your MH's, it will not take it long to get up to 10-12 hours (12 to 16 days). This is a new system so the ph swings can't be that huge to make a difference. Plus, there are no corals in there currently. By the time you start adding corals, you will have equal time splits (e.g. fuge/MH) IMO.

Yeah, that Cheato is great stuff. I have it, and it grows like crazy. It might take a bit to start, but once it does it really takes off. E.g. I harvested my cheato last thursday, and I pulled out about 75% of it. The replaced clump has not shown any growth yet (that I can see), but it will after this weekend. I have been harvesting it about once a month, pulling out 75% each time. It seems to grow based on its overall size. Thus, the smaller it is the slower it grows; however, as it grows the speed doubles and continues to double. I think that right before I harvest it, it is growing like mad. Hence, why I am in the process of creating a new refuge (15g tank that I am going to have drilled, and plumbed it to the main tank) that way I will let it fill up that entire tank in lieu of harvesting it once a month (in its small 2.5g area now).


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Coldfire said:


> Hence, why I am in the process of creating a new refuge (15g tank that I am going to have drilled, and plumbed it to the main tank) that way I will let it fill up that entire tank in lieu of harvesting it once a month (in its small 2.5g area now).


i need to do asomethign similar, my fuge is a partition in a 10gallon if i had to guess i would say its two gallons and with out question not big enough i realyl need an entire ten gallon tank for a fuge my only problem is where do i put it.. i might need to ahve a custom acrylic built to squueze under the stand


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Yeah, same issue with my set up. Here is my deal. I have my reef setup, and an empty 15g tank (FW currently) up and running sitting next to it. Soooo, my plan is to have it drilled (2 holes intake and return) near its top, and have a stand beside refuge. That way I will pump water from the main tank to the refuge, then it will drain back down to the main tank. That would give me the full 15g of space from that tank to grow the Cheato. Plus, I would place about 2" of sand substrate and LR rubble in there (of course, the LR will displace water and use up space in the 15g but you get the point). At that point, I would be able to grow the space equavilant of five + gallons of Cheato between harvest. Then, pull out four of those five gallon of cheato every other month. That would boost the nutrient uptake ten fold form the current amount I am harvesting. Plus, a stand besides refuge would give me additional room for a frags if need be. Plus, additional room to drip kalk water at night (no room now, and I really don't want to drip directly in the main tank). Oh, the plans they run through my head like crazy.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Coldfire said:


> Yeah, same issue with my set up. Here is my deal. I have my reef setup, and an empty 15g tank (FW currently) up and running sitting next to it. Soooo, my plan is to have it drilled (2 holes intake and return) near its top, and have a stand beside refuge. That way I will pump water from the main tank to the refuge, then it will drain back down to the main tank. That would give me the full 15g of space from that tank to grow the Cheato. Plus, I would place about 2" of sand substrate and LR rubble in there (of course, the LR will displace water and use up space in the 15g but you get the point). At that point, I would be able to grow the space equavilant of five + gallons of Cheato between harvest. Then, pull out four of those five gallon of cheato every other month. That would boost the nutrient uptake ten fold form the current amount I am harvesting. Plus, a stand besides refuge would give me additional room for a frags if need be. Plus, additional room to drip kalk water at night (no room now, and I really don't want to drip directly in the main tank). Oh, the plans they run through my head like crazy.


i suffer from the same problem, constantly dreaming up grand ideas for the system, they need to make a commercial for reef ADD with a hot old lady with vd and a dog running through a field with some looser talking about our symptoms.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Why does it have to be a hot OLD lady? Why couldn't she be a HOT YOUNG LADY?

Yeah, I am also trying to figure out how to place a second MH (150W) on my reef, or move up to a 250W HQI.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

my biggest problem is the space inside the stand, its about 17d x 19w x 30t so i cant really even fit my 10 gallon under it properly.

i have a two phase plan

phase one restructure the sump 
so what im thinking is two seperate containers one for the fuge that would be half the width and the complete depth and about 1/3 the height of the space for a fuge. the other half would be split into two halfs, one would be the drain and sump the other would be the return.

phase two re-plumb draina dn returns
the tank has two bulk heads behind the overflow box currently one is for drain and teh other is the return line that has two loc line returns but the tank also has the "euro brace" and the back two corners have holes so i can put bulk heads in the holes to attacch the loclines to then and put a SCWD in and run a larger return pump.

ok that all mighthave been confusing but heres the point, by covnerting both bulkheadsin the overflow to drains i can send one to the fuge and have it overflow to the other side of teh sump and the other drain can go to the skimmer side of the sump plus with the scwd i will have turbulance in the tank and the two drain lines would support a higher gph pump so i would get more effective turnover..

now that i have stated this all in words i feel that i must do this, it would be the optimal setup and would allow for a larger skimmer..


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

It might be better to have both drains to the sump, have the refuge's water pumped from the sump to the refuge, then drain back to the sump, then pumped to the main tank. I have heard of odd things happening when drains are diverted to two different places in lieu of one single sump. Does that make sense? Either way sounds great if you can get it to work properly.

I have the same issue that you have (no room under the tank). Hence, why I am going to do a stand beside refuge. I will just have the refuge a bit high than the main tank, and drain to it. IMO refuges are really cool to watch (as long as you keep the glass wiped down), so why not enjoy it like a second tank? Besides, if I keep any frags in there, I will be able to keep a close eye on them.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Coldfire said:


> It might be better to have both drains to the sump, have the refuge's water pumped from the sump to the refuge, then drain back to the sump, then pumped to the main tank. I have heard of odd things happening when drains are diverted to two different places in lieu of one single sump. Does that make sense? Either way sounds great if you can get it to work properly.
> 
> I have the same issue that you have (no room under the tank). Hence, why I am going to do a stand beside refuge. I will just have the refuge a bit high than the main tank, and drain to it. IMO refuges are really cool to watch (as long as you keep the glass wiped down), so why not enjoy it like a second tank? Besides, if I keep any frags in there, I will be able to keep a close eye on them.


if it were up to me the sump would be a 55 long i have laying around but i have ag/f and another tank with hoses and pipes and pumps filled with green stuff and rocks isnt going to go over too big with her so i have to cram it in some how.. i might have to do a test and see if i have what it takes to make my own acrylic sump.. not sure if thats a risk i want to take but then again im not exactly in a hurry to pay another xxx hundred dollars for equiptment..


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## assclown (Dec 12, 2005)

thats the issue with my stand as well....im going to cut out a wall to add a bigger tank for 
sump / fuge.....i want more water movement


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

assclown said:


> thats the issue with my stand as well....im going to cut out a wall to add a bigger tank for
> sump / fuge.....i want more water movement


if your goign to havfe to expand from one chmber of the stan to the next you shoud use a jigsaw to cut the hole and leave as much as you material as you can with no square edges, you want the weight of a lonjg tank like a 125 to be distributed as evenly over the length as you can. so lets say the stand is 24 inchs deep cut the hole 18 inchs wide to fit a 55 gallone tank throught the bulkheads you cut with rounded edges wherer you leave the wholes

here is my impressionistic idea


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## assclown (Dec 12, 2005)

that is what i have done and im so happy that i did...more room and movment
but i had to use a rubbermaid sump which is ok, i couldnt fit a glass tank under the 
stand.....added a P/H for movment for the cheato, a couple of chucks of live rock and
2 slices of oyster shells for calcium

(my coraline is coming along nicely, got lots of green and purple going!!!!)

that is what i have done and im so happy that i did...more room and movment
but i had to use a rubbermaid sump which is ok, i couldnt fit a glass tank under the 
stand.....added a P/H for movment for the cheato, a couple of chucks of live rock and
2 slices of oyster shells for calcium

(my coraline is coming along nicely, got lots of green and purple going!!!!)


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

i read an intereseting thread on rc the other day about an alternative "sump" set up for more efective use and growth of cheato..

essentially the idea is to use a 5 gallon and very high flow with strong lighting to direct the flow to make the cheato ball tumble, apparently the high turbulent flow and tumbling increases growth (opposed to the typical matted growth with liniar flow) which means more rapid nutrient up take and more frequent harvesting.


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## assclown (Dec 12, 2005)

that is what i have read as well, the cheato has grown aprrox 15% in the month, with
approx 4 to 8 hours of light and a powerhead flowing right into the tub where its housed.

so more flow is a good key so ive seen.

BTW N/D: my coraline is coming in rather nicley, pics coming tonight, along with sump pics


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

there is also a balance of how much to prune, too much and its less growth too little and your not removing enough i also rinse my cheato out to get all the detritus out when i trim it but i wish i could figure out a way to do it and not wash the pods down the drain. it really doesnt make that much of a dent int eh pod population but every one counts


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