# homosexuality?



## gloom (Nov 11, 2006)

is it normal for 2 males to engage in what looks like to me a mating ritual? i have 3 8" rbp's and i thought i had 2 males and 1 female but this morning i saw the 2 males "getting it on". is this possible?


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

how do u know they are which? Maybe its just territorial issues.


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## eiji (Sep 16, 2006)

i thought it's hard to tell which is which when it comes to RBPs?? =)


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## bigman8258 (Aug 23, 2004)

i think that has to be the most original quaestion ive heard!


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## gloom (Nov 11, 2006)

well i was guessing by coloration and shape but maybe i was wrong all along. the one has always been kept away from the other two, but this morning he/she was slapping tails w/ the other m/f. males never do this then?


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

reds are not sexually dimporphic meaning you cannot tell male from female.


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

How do you even know they were getting it on if you are not sure which is male or female?


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

one will see a pair doing the breeding dance. When they do breed u can tell. The male gaurds the nest.

btw what kind of fish is that in your avatar?


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## gloom (Nov 11, 2006)

i've seen the vids of them mating, like i said, i thought all along the one p was a male. I've read that the females are more colorful and thicker and the males are duller in color and more slender, so that's what i was going by. i guess it is too hard to tell...that was the first time i had seen the two do that, it had always been the other two, while the third was kept in a corner.

i don't recall ever hearing about homosexuality in the animal kingdom...i don't think it exists.


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## fan1008 (May 12, 2005)

gloom said:


> i've seen the vids of them mating, like i said, i thought all along the one p was a male. I've read that the females are more colorful and thicker and the males are duller in color and more slender, so that's what i was going by. i guess it is too hard to tell...that was the first time i had seen the two do that, it had always been the other two, while the third was kept in a corner.
> 
> i don't recall ever hearing about homosexuality in the animal kingdom...i don't think it exists.


It does exist. What species you ask? They are commonly referred to as Human Beings in the animal Kingdom.









Thats my two cents.


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## gloom (Nov 11, 2006)

fan1008 said:


> i've seen the vids of them mating, like i said, i thought all along the one p was a male. I've read that the females are more colorful and thicker and the males are duller in color and more slender, so that's what i was going by. i guess it is too hard to tell...that was the first time i had seen the two do that, it had always been the other two, while the third was kept in a corner.
> 
> i don't recall ever hearing about homosexuality in the animal kingdom...i don't think it exists.


It does exist. What species you ask? They are commonly referred to as Human Beings in the animal Kingdom.









Thats my two cents.
[/quote]
i assumed we already knew that.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

There are homosexual penguins, too.


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## gloom (Nov 11, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> There are homosexual penguins, too.


is that a fact?


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Yeah, there's a pair in New York that they were planning on breaking up...I forget the whole details, but they had been a major tourist attraction and were even mentioned on "Will and Grace".


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

Yeah I heard that to on T.V. hear in Colorado.


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## werdna (Mar 15, 2005)

rocker said:


> reds are not sexually dimporphic meaning you cannot tell male from female.


yeah... hard to sex.... i dont know about impossible


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## eiji (Sep 16, 2006)

there were homosexual chimps in the wild, i saw that on Nat Geo...
kinda freaky though...


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

the monkeys are not homosexual. they just have different social traits of interaction. 
The monkeys use sex as a way of establishing dominance and heres the key that destroys the whole gay aspect. *To attract a mate of the oppisite sex. *


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

The bonobo is more accurately termed "bisexual" if one has to put one of three labels on them...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=031...ttbidstrupshoA/ is supposed to be a good read on the issue at hand. A review: http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/cov_15featurea.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20..._gayanimal.html has a decent overview of the issue, as do http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604/.

NARTH presents an opposing viewpoint (which is somewhat self-serving, given what NARTH stands for, but I offer it in the spirit of fairness): http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html


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## eiji (Sep 16, 2006)

o sh*t my bad...lol yeah bisexual was the term... thanks Childawg


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

No prob.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> The bonobo is more accurately termed "bisexual" if one has to put one of three labels on them...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=031...ttbidstrupshoA/ is supposed to be a good read on the issue at hand. A review: http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/cov_15featurea.html
> 
> ...


I don't think I would even term it as that. 
The sexual interaction between males is not an act of sex. It is an act of establishing dominance. Its very difficult to attribute human traits to animals because they simply do not think like we do.

And ultimately their goal for mating is of the oppisite sex.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

To an extent, I don't disagree, but there are some animals which have same-sex relations exclusively and no intersex interactions. I agree that applying terms which are applicable to the sexuality of humans may be a little dicey, but if we do that, then the bonobo would have to be bisexual.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> To an extent, I don't disagree, but there are some animals which have same-sex relations exclusively and no intersex interactions. I agree that applying terms which are applicable to the sexuality of humans may be a little dicey, but if we do that, then the bonobo would have to be bisexual.


agreed. By terms of comparision to humans it could be concluded to call them bisexual. 
However I don't belive this to be the case with fish.

In the case of fish I would say that the interaction is simply an establishing of domianace.

I did have a pair of female convicts that both had batchs of fry from the same father at about the same time. I had to remove the father and because of that the two females paired up and started protecting the fry toghether. I think it is more instinctive to protect the fry then sexual prefference. 
It was weird thats for sure. 
Instincts are a strong thing. And in the animal kingdom they take precidence over reason and choice.


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

In that case, especially if the fry switched parents willingly from time to time, that would certainly be an example of "creching" (shared broodcare between females), which is not uncommon among some genera of C/As. That is definitely an asexual behavior by almost any standards, I would hope.

I am interested in the polygamous nature of the father and wonder how to explain that...I guess both were in his territory so he felt both were his mates? Certainly blows the lid on Cons being pair-based fishes, doesn't it? (I had a hard time believing that they would mate for life, though...seems hard to believe for a fish which produces so many fry at such a rapid rate.)


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## ZOSICK (May 25, 2005)

If you beat and kill a gay fish is it a hate crime?


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## gloom (Nov 11, 2006)

jk.
i saw a show on bonobos and they showed the adults having sex with the babies







and masturbating







.


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## altimaser (Jul 10, 2006)

I can't believe there is a post about homosexual Piranhas !!! 
This has to be the funniest stuff I've ever read


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

ChilDawg said:


> In that case, especially if the fry switched parents willingly from time to time, that would certainly be an example of "creching" (shared broodcare between females), which is not uncommon among some genera of C/As. That is definitely an asexual behavior by almost any standards, I would hope.
> 
> I am interested in the polygamous nature of the father and wonder how to explain that...I guess both were in his territory so he felt both were his mates? Certainly blows the lid on Cons being pair-based fishes, doesn't it? (I had a hard time believing that they would mate for life, though...seems hard to believe for a fish which produces so many fry at such a rapid rate.)


Well I don't think that they did interswitch fry. 
At one point I removed one of the mothers and the one left in the tank that mother took great care of her own and kind of let half of them stray around. then when I noticed that I put the other one back in. At that time they divi'ed up the fry and raised them seperatly. At that point the fry had no chance and got picked off.


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## fan1008 (May 12, 2005)

altimaser said:


> I can't believe there is a post about homosexual Piranhas !!!
> This has to be the funniest stuff I've ever read


This must be Brokeback Mountaion


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## Dread_Specter (Dec 4, 2006)

fan1008 said:


> i've seen the vids of them mating, like i said, i thought all along the one p was a male. I've read that the females are more colorful and thicker and the males are duller in color and more slender, so that's what i was going by. i guess it is too hard to tell...that was the first time i had seen the two do that, it had always been the other two, while the third was kept in a corner.
> 
> i don't recall ever hearing about homosexuality in the animal kingdom...i don't think it exists.


It does exist. What species you ask? They are commonly referred to as Human Beings in the animal Kingdom.









Thats my two cents.
[/quote]

Well, apart from the human behings, I remember seeing a documentary about homosexuality in animals on some french channel. They said that only two animals had widespread homosexual contacts. First were the pigeons, which unknowingly or unpurposefully hump other males and the other kind was a type of squid (or octupus) which reporduces by injecting the spem into the female hypodermically (thats right, they get f*cked by a nice little subcutaneous needle !). Unfortunately, mistake do happen and sometime, an inacurate attempt will result in the sperm being injected in another male. Sorry I can't quote the species.

That'd make an interesting saltwater tank couple thus....


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## moron (May 26, 2006)

this thread is mad funny :laugh:

this thread is mad funny :laugh:


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## ChilDawg (Apr 30, 2006)

Dread Specter said:


> i've seen the vids of them mating, like i said, i thought all along the one p was a male. I've read that the females are more colorful and thicker and the males are duller in color and more slender, so that's what i was going by. i guess it is too hard to tell...that was the first time i had seen the two do that, it had always been the other two, while the third was kept in a corner.
> 
> i don't recall ever hearing about homosexuality in the animal kingdom...i don't think it exists.


It does exist. What species you ask? They are commonly referred to as Human Beings in the animal Kingdom.









Thats my two cents.
[/quote]

Well, apart from the human behings, I remember seeing a documentary about homosexuality in animals on some french channel. They said that only two animals had widespread homosexual contacts. First were the pigeons, which unknowingly or unpurposefully hump other males and the other kind was a type of squid (or octupus) which reporduces by injecting the spem into the female hypodermically (thats right, they get f*cked by a nice little subcutaneous needle !). Unfortunately, mistake do happen and sometime, an inacurate attempt will result in the sperm being injected in another male. Sorry I can't quote the species.

That'd make an interesting saltwater tank couple thus....








[/quote]

IIRC, the bedbug also does that and some males will purposefully inject other males while they're mating with a female...and some males even have evolved organs which help to transport the sperm of the competition to the female.


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