# snake decision



## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

I'm going to attempt to keep this as short as I can. I have tendency to rant when I'm pondering...

About 12 or 13 years ago I purchased my first and only snake. A juvi Brazilian Rainbow Boa constrictor. Stunning coloration to say the least. 
I was horribly ripped off by the store owner that sold me this snake....both on price and the totally inaccurate info of how to keep him. This turned out to be one of my biggest lessons of listening to a store. 
Very, very long story short, months after I bought this snake I stopped listening to the store owner and starting ordering books/research on my own...He was way off and my BRB paid for it. The complete switch around of how I was caring for the boa was too late and I lost him. 
I did one more transaction with him on what would be my introduction into Serrasalmus and I took my buisness elsewhere. 
The whole thing was my fault for being young and gullible. 
That was the last time I owned a snake even though I've always wanted to get back into it.

Now I'm thinking I'm ready to try again. 
I always told myself that if I did it again, it would have to be another gorgeous BRB. Now the more money I put away to fund this, I'm starting to consider other options. Mainly, the Spider Ball Python. I've always thought that these are incredible and I'm now starting to bounce back and fourth between the two. 
Obviously, there is alot of plus's to keeping a Ball.....

I need some of everyones opinions here to help me out. And please if you have any good forums to put out there, I'd appreciate that greatly. 
Thanks everyone.


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## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

not trying to scare you man but all spider ball pythons wobble, in their minds they see everything spinning thats why they seem to always be tilting their heads, some are more noticable than others. Its said to be a genetic thing with spider morphs but the first wild spider also had it.
if you pick one up try to get the one thats the most stable unless the wobbling doesnt bother you.
the spiders are one of my fasvorite looking morphs









this is what wobbling looks like


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Looked into the "wobble" and "corkscrew" issues with spiders...I never knew that. Thanks for the heads up sapir. 
From what I read, the majority of that morph has the wobbling issue. Most are very slight. Some are much worse...
As much as I hate to say it, that's something I'd like to avoid so I'll be looking into other similar morphs.

Even a normal CB ball isn't anywhere near being out of the question for me.


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## iceh86 (Mar 14, 2009)

Tango give us some more information about what kind of snakes you like, or what kind of animal you're interested in - example being a show piece, an interactive pet etc.

I like arboreal animals, and personally don't like balls - so I'm kind of biased.
GTP's are amazing show snakes - but they are very inactive and sometimes boring. However if you like arboreal snakes and are ok with periods of inactivity and aggressive attitudes...

Boas are great pets, BCC or BCI. I have little 6mo old Anery het snow.. shes got a strong feeding response and very inquisitive outside of her enclosure.

Size I suppose also comes into play... what kind of space limitations are you working with?

Some snakes to look into...

Carpets - coastals, jungles, IJs, jags if you have the money to drop.
GTPs
ATBs
ETBs
BCI - Peruvian, Bolivian, Surinam, Guyanan are some of my favorites
I've never had a liking for colubrids, but you might end up liking a corn, milk, king or something like that. The apricot puebs are pretty nice.

On a side note, if you're interested in something other than a snake, monitors make amazing pets. I used to have a savannah, and I'm currently raising a mangrove. Interesting reptiles to say the least.


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

sapir said:


> not trying to scare you man but all spider ball pythons wobble, in their minds they see everything spinning thats why they seem to always be tilting their heads, some are more noticable than others. Its said to be a genetic thing with spider morphs but the first wild spider also had it.
> if you pick one up try to get the one thats the most stable unless the wobbling doesnt bother you.
> the spiders are one of my fasvorite looking morphs
> 
> ...


Wow!...great information. I've been into herps 30 yrs and I've never heard of this.


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## jparker1167 (Nov 11, 2007)

not all spiders wobble i have seen ones that dont and ones that do. one that wobbles can produce babies that dont wobble and the other way around from what i hear. i dont think the wobble is from them seeing things spinning since they have poor eyesight any its more likely a genetic thing.

balls are easier to keep but rainbows look better so its up to you. rainbows need high humidity but are not to bad to keep.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Iceh thanks for your input and thankyou for the replies everyone else.

I have my sights set on one or the other. Either a BRB or Ball/morph. The morphs of some of these BPs hit me like a freight train because for the most part, I had no idea there was such a thing. Being able to get a snake that appeals to me as much as some of these morphs, along with the added ease of keeping a ball python is really keeping my attention. 
On the other hand, going back and having great success at what I failed with has always been my goal.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

I would go bp over a rainbow boa as they are from what i heard harder to care for. Mojave bp look sweet too. If i get a snake, i hope to get either a mojvave ball python or a hog island boa.


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

SERRAPYGO said:


> not trying to scare you man but all spider ball pythons wobble, in their minds they see everything spinning thats why they seem to always be tilting their heads, some are more noticable than others. Its said to be a genetic thing with spider morphs but the first wild spider also had it.
> if you pick one up try to get the one thats the most stable unless the wobbling doesnt bother you.
> the spiders are one of my fasvorite looking morphs
> 
> ...


Wow!...great information. I've been into herps 30 yrs and I've never heard of this.
[/quote]
Ive never heard of it either, great info to know thats for sure.

Ive always been a fan of Hogg Island Boa's. Check them out


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## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

super pastel ball ftw!!


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

spider ball pythons are sweet looking, but i never heard of the wobble thing before.



sapir said:


> super pastel ball ftw!!


 Those are expensive, but nice. Probably cost similar to breed 2 pastels to get supers


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Swung by the herp section of my lfs today. Alot of corns and milks, a few Columbian Boa's (I love these but they get too large for what I'm currently looking for), and adult BRB, one adult Carpet, about a half dozen captive bred normal Ball Pythons and a few that I can't remember. 
BP's there are $90. Seems steep to me for a normal...

How's shipping on a juvi constrictor compared to a fish?

My target price tag for the snake would be around $350 give or take.


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## sapir (Jun 20, 2008)

Tango374 said:


> Swung by the herp section of my lfs today. Alot of corns and milks, a few Columbian Boa's (I love these but they get too large for what I'm currently looking for), and adult BRB, one adult Carpet, about a half dozen captive bred normal Ball Pythons and a few that I can't remember.
> BP's there are $90. Seems steep to me for a normal...
> 
> How's shipping on a juvi constrictor compared to a fish?
> ...


snakes are shipped pretty easily especially bp's , they usually put them in like a sac in a box.
check out kingsnake.com they have awesome reptiles and shipping will probably run around 50 tops.
you can get a pastel for the price your lfs sells normals.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Tango374 said:


> Swung by the herp section of my lfs today. Alot of corns and milks, a few Columbian Boa's (I love these but they get too large for what I'm currently looking for), and adult BRB, one adult Carpet, about a half dozen captive bred normal Ball Pythons and a few that I can't remember.
> BP's there are $90. Seems steep to me for a normal...
> 
> How's shipping on a juvi constrictor compared to a fish?
> ...


 I would look and ask around b/c there may be a reptile expo around you which i think would be a good option. Around me (hour one way) ive been to 3 run by different people. Out of the 3 different ones ive been to one multiple times as its a about 5 times a year.

90$ is steep for a normal bp as here ive seen them for 50$ and im in Canada. For abotu 200$ you should be able to find a hog island boa (which i want as they are larger then bp's, but smaller then red tail boas), pastel ball pythons, any corn snake really, and mayby a coupel other bp morphs. I wouldnt buy from lfs as they cost much more then from breeders. Shipping is easier then fish as you dont have to ship like 10 lbs of water, worry about ammonia levels... All you need is some containors and boxes and ship next day delivery.

dont know how good these are, but you may want to check them out..
mich expo
another


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

I would check out kingsnake.com and also reptile expos to get an idea of whats around and prices. $90 sounds pretty expensive for just a normal morph bp. Think I paid $45 or 50 for mine.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Dude...Thanks Sean. 
I think I'm going to have to check out the Grand Rapids show. 
Do these shows tend to have reasonable price tags on their snakes?


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

Most times they do since there are so many people looking to get rid of their snakes and such. You can usually score some pretty awesome deals.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Tango374 said:


> Dude...Thanks Sean.
> I think I'm going to have to check out the Grand Rapids show.
> Do these shows tend to have reasonable price tags on their snakes?


I would read some more on some shows in your area as some shows are certainly better then others size and quality wise. Im not around you so i dotn know how good either is, but if you go on the sites you should be able to find vendor lists to see how large the show is. They generally will have much better prices and selection then any lfs as these are basically home breeders that breed them themselves then sell so there is no middlemen and most vendors usually know alot more about their stock then lfs

This is the vendor list of an expo ive been to a couple times near Toronto. This i think is one of or the biggest in Canada. Out of these, alot of vendors just sell ball python morphs even some very expensive ones. There are alot of expensive snakes, but they are rare morphs so less rare morphs generally arnt too expensive. If you have a vendor list, i would google the vendor as alot of them may have sites so you could email them on prices if not posted. That beign said 350$ for a ball python morph isnt going buy you many morphs, however there are still some cool ones you could probably get. Also always go early to these shows as later, alot will be picked over and do a walk around first as different vendors sell things for different prices.

"Vendors and Tables

A and A Dragons K8 
Alistair LaForme D5 
All Reptiles Q6 Q7 Q8 
BIG AL's F E3- F E9 
Bloodline Exotics P4 
Blue Rock Iguana Recovery Program O5 
Brent Robinson R3 
Brian Widdifield N2 
Canadian Crested Gecko D7 
Canadian Feeders R5 R6 
Central Ontario Exotics G5 
Chameleon Nation S6 
Chroma Chameleons J6 
CJ Geckos G7 
Clint Hill C1 
CoolBreeds N5 
Corey Woods B9 B10
COTERC Hall . 
Darkside Dragons C2 
DINO Reptiles K5 K6 K7 
Dragon Emporium S9 
Exclusive Dragons D7 
Exclusive Snakes D8 
Exotic Wings n Things . 
Exotics by Design O1 
Garden City Reptile and Aquaria B1 
Gecko Brothel S7 
GetaGecko H5 
GHOTI Fish Farms L3 L4 L5 L6 
Global Exotic Pets T1 T2 T3 
Grande Terre Geckos J3 
Green Knight Exotics C4 
Gregg Andrews Rodent Farms G8 G9 
Insectos Al Boudreau K1 K2 K3 
James Dory M6 
Jeff Carson Advanced Terrarium Systems O7 O8 
Large Exotics T4 T5 
Les Souris Du Nord N4 
Little Rays Reptile Zoo T6 T7 
Little Res Q Q1 
London Reptiles Q3 Q4 Q5 
Mist King - Marty H7 H8 
My Canadian Pets.Ca P5 P6 
Nathan Greenlay GeckoBoy C5 
Nickola Yeung G4 
Northern Gecko J5 J4 
Ontario Constrictor Designs C8 C7 
Ontario Turtle and Tortoise Society 
Phil Ramos C3 
Port Credit Pets . 
Pythonica M1 
Quality Bred Reptiles R7 
R.E.D. Exotics R8 
Randalls Reptiles O2 
Recorp N7 
Red Hot Reptiles D3 
Reptile Feeder Shop H3 
Reptile Kings E1 E2 F1 F2 
Robert D Schmidt Q2 
Rodent Kings S1 S2 S3 S4 
Rovili Petland U1 U2 U3 U4 
Scary Guys P3 
Serge Gestion M2 M3 
Slithers N1 
SmiLees Dragons S5 
South West Parrot Club . 
Stav T Boids G3 
Tania Helman B8 
Tarantula Canada R9 R10 
TCs Reptiles D4 
The Feeder Factory J7 J8 J9 
The Reptile Store D1 D2 
The Urban Reptile A4 A5 A6 A7 
Tree Top Lions M5 
Tropical Expressions T8 T9 T10 
Two Monsters Exotics L1 
Understory Enterprises C9 
Universal Habitats R2 
Walking Rock / Turtle Haven P2 
Woodland Edge Herps O3 "

Heres the first links vendor list
vendor contact # E-MAIL website 
Marty Made Custom Cages 586-573-0487 [email protected]

Amelia Czebieniak

586-873-5006

[email protected]

Angelina Husk

724-342-2812

Brad Boa Reptiles

586-596-5697

[email protected]

Natures Spirit

269-649-9377

[email protected]

www.nsreptiles.com

Dave Cox 989-790-6477

[email protected]

David GRUNING

216-544-3349

[email protected]

Hooks Feeder Farm 419-265-5603

[email protected]

Diana Plummer 517-402-1426

[email protected]

Jason Shields

734-536-5341

[email protected]

Jeff Connell

989-798-5997

[email protected]

Joel Roggelin 419-691-4536

[email protected]

John Apple

734-485-4931

[email protected]

KMSReptiles 734-890-2331 [email protected] www.kmsreptiles.com 
Tangled webb 248-796-1078

[email protected] www.tangledwwweb.com 
John Pullum

313-538-3626

[email protected]

Pro Herps 419-386-6318

[email protected]

www.proherps.com 
Pange Replile Co.

616-446-8115 [email protected] www.pangeareptile.com 
Ad herp

419-308-1346

[email protected]

Robert Cook

517-819-2723

[email protected]

Robert McPhee

517-712-4794

Steve Shaw

734-755-5243

[email protected]

Theresa Ferris

313-532-1109

[email protected]

All American Redtails 216-272-1061

[email protected]

www.allamericanredtails.com

Creekside Reptiles 419-825-2797 [email protected]

Collison Zoo 616-734-4790 [email protected]

Select Captive Bred 
[email protected] www.selectcaptivebred.com 
Quality Exotics 231-972-8836 
www.qualityexotics.com 
Ron Binlinsly 317-690-1614 [email protected]

Kyle Kandilian 313-562-0465 [email protected]

Forest Frogs/Rainforest 616-822-8514 [email protected] www.forestfrogs.com 
TJ's Tropical Jungle 810-610-9402 [email protected]@comcast.net

Garry Rose 440-563-1881

Tim Koppenhofer 216-789-0684 [email protected]

Nicole Smith 
[email protected]

Perfect Pets Inc. 734-461-2858 [email protected] www.frozenrodents.com 
Newts pets 734-771-5977 
www.newtspets.com 
ReptileTubs.com 440-574-9303 [email protected] www.reptiletubs.com 
Diamond-den 
[email protected]om


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)




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## iceh86 (Mar 14, 2009)

09 BRB's $150.00. Extraordinary Ectotherms Snakes are only hard to care for if you don't give them what they need. I've bought from this breeder and the snake was perfect. The rest is up to you.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

wow...
That mother f*cker is all about rainbows dude. Nice. 
Good prices on them too. I'm embarrassed to say that I spent three and a half times what he's asking for on mine.


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

Ouch ^^


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## iceh86 (Mar 14, 2009)

Tango374 said:


> wow...
> That mother f*cker is all about rainbows dude. Nice.
> Good prices on them too. I'm embarrassed to say that I spent three and a half times what he's asking for on mine.


Gotta do the research.









Rule #1 - Buy from a trusted breeder. You can usually find reviews of breeders/imposters on faunaclassifieds.com

Well, if you're looking for a bp - maybe someone else can point you in the right direction, I've only bought from a local bp breeder.


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