# Shivers Reef



## shiver905

*Shivers Reef*

*36x16x16 AGA Aquarium
50ish Gallon Sump
36" Nova Extreme Pro 6 bulb Light
Bubble Magus BM150 Skimmer
Supreme Mag 12 Water Pump
5 Stage RO/DI Water Filter
Refractometer
TDS meter
250W Jager Heater
API Reef Test Kit
Saltfleet Test Kits*

DIY Stand
Made with 4 Deck Posts and 2 sheets of melamine.
Painted with Black Fusion Paint and Black/White stone textured Fusion paint.

DIY Durso
Made with PVC pipe and a Bulkhead kit.
Adjustable air valve for air control.

DIY Overflow
Made with Scrap Plexi Display.
Teeth made with a Dermel Tool.
Painted with Black Fusion Paint.

DIY Filter Sock Holder
Made with 4" PVC Downward T

DIY Sump
Made with AGA aquarium and 4 Glass panels.
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Nothing is Wet yet. Im still buying my equipment.
Anyone see any flaws with my equipment list?

I'll Post Pictures Very soon.

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Im going to make a section Of Common Mistakes Reefers make when first attempting a Saltwater Reef tank. All from my experience.

*
1) Take This Hobby Very Slow.

2) Buy a quality RO/DI unit,
Cant stress this enough. Yes, they cost A chunk of money. 
A reef is all about proper water parameter. The basics of this is achived with quality water, which is what an RO/DI unit is for. People think You can run out to the local water store and grab RO water for 2$ a Jug. Think of a time where you need an Emergency water change because you dropped something F*cked up in your reef at 11pm when all stores are closed.

3) Buy The Proper Test Kits
As stated above "A reef is all about proper water parameter".
Your water parameters are only as good as your test kits.

4) Buy a TDS Meter
So you went out and put out the cash for a quality RO/DI unit.
Whats the RO/DI unit without you knowing if its working.

5) Buy Refractometer.
Simple, Its SALTWATER. You need to see what your salt levels are.
Shure you can save a few dollars and Buy those cheap Floating type.
Keep in mind they get Stuck at times and yor readings will be off.
You'll run around wondering why everything is dieing.

6) When putting anything that involves electricity in your water. Check if there is any stray voltage. I put a Heater in a tank and a bit of the wire was stripped. In a Few hours it killed the tank.

7) Don't under estimate the cost. Little things add up.
They really add up. ADD UP BIG!!!!

8) RESEARCH!!!! knowledge is power in this hobby, and you should take the time to investigate every fish, shrimp, crab, coral, anemone you add. You should also use every spare second you have to LEARN everything you can absorb
-AEgir

9)NEW!!!!!!!Dont buy Used Live Sand unless you know the source personally.
With that said it goes for LR also. Make shure you examin Every rock.
There are huge benifits of buying dead rock, If you can wait. Refer to Number 1.

10)NEW!!!A sump has many great benifits, Loose the dollar/fear factors and drill your tank.
It is one of the best things you can do for your system.

11)NEW!!!When you attach Bulkheads, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN THEM. Instead hand tighten with a bead of aquarium safe silicone on both sides to ensure you have a leak free hold without broken glass.

*

I'll add things on here as I go on.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Agree totally to number 7. Its funny when you see the total on a 20g reef to be like 700$ plus


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## Ægir

I love where your head is at... and would like to add a few things if ya dont mind.

1) "Nothing good happens fast in a saltwater aquarium"

2) Its the FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT thing... yeah a good salt mix is a plus, but starting with tap water, or even just RO water (distilled, which is the most common thing sold in stores as well!) is asking for life long problems. Start with pure stripped water AND ONLY ADD WHAT YOU TEST FOR after your salt mix...

3) back to only adding supplements you test for... you can use a "API reef master" test kit, but will have to buy additional magnesium, copper (good to have on hand incase of emergencies) and other test kits for the plethora of additives available if you think you should use them. Using any additives (again, after using a well balanced salt mix) cant be done by guessing, and can have DISASTROUS effects if overdosed.

4) A TDS meter also gives you better life out of your filters... if you take a baseline reading (incoming water) and write it down, you can place the 2 inline TDS meters BEFORE the RO membrane and DI, and one on the output... Replacing the first few stages of your filter unit 2 or 3 times to protect the membrane is more cost effective than buying one RO membrane, and will give you longer life out of your DI stage (s)

5) Refractometer is a GREAT thing to have, several of the swing arm hydrometers i have around are OFF by .06 and when you are ideally striving for 1.026 thats a HUGE amount. Small things like tiny air bubbles, and even temp can throw off the swing arm type. Refractometers can he calibrated (using your pure RO/DI water) so you always know that "the eye in the sky" is more accurate

6) Stray voltage is a controversial topic... and I will spare you from my "grounding probe speech" You run into huge problems with saltwater aquariums because saltwater is FAR more conductive than freshwater, and most substances in general (even higher than copper i believe?) Not to mention saltwaters corrosive properties, and when electrolysis is involved you can be dissolving COPPER (from the wire) into your tank and KILLING inverts and your tank. I will stop here as to not add 20 pages to your topic, and just say ITS BAD, and WORSE if its a complete circuit (ground probe, your arm etc) Improper wiring can KILL YOU, and darn fast

7) Its also worth SAVING for a few months and buying high end equipment if you cant afford it now... There are many DIY projects to save you TONS of money, but some things cant be replicated. Save for 3 or 4 months for the top of the line skimmer, as opposed to buying a seaclown just to have it NOW. Impulse buys will kill you, and can end up costing you 20 times what you paid... and your tank and inhabitants will thank you in the long run

One more thing: RESEARCH!!!! knowledge is power in this hobby, and you should take the time to investigate every fish, shrimp, crab, coral, anemone you add. You should also use every spare second you have to LEARN everything you can absorb... even if its advanced topics that are years out in your aquarium like coral reproduction and fish spawning. I spent 6 or 7 months reading and reading and reading before i was comfortable with starting a tank, and still years later spend every second i have to build my knowledge base and explore new things. Other peoples experiences can save you (money, misery, and even time) so use google and check it out.

Keep us posted with lots of pictures, and dont hesitate to drop me a PM if you need to.


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## shiver905

I added ur Research Bit.
RESEARCH!


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Good stuff guys. I can also vouch for the expensive aspect of this. Were one of the few mental people that will actually dish out the cash for something like this haha. I could have had a 125 gallon full piranha set-up with just the money I payed for my lighting lol.

Right now Im taking my tank very slowly and buying quality equipment as I save more moeny. If im going to spend all this cash im making sure my reef will be with me for years and years, not just a 1 year stint and then tank tear down which I see is pretty common with reef hobbyist here and there.


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## His Majesty

all pretty basic stuff but overlooked alot of the time. especially the cost of it. its the one thing people learn fast abut SW is that it adds up very quickly. and research is key.

also listening to lots of people experiences. dont just stick to what one person says just because you like what they say. everyone's experience differs and you can learn something from each one


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## shiver905




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## shiver905




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## Ægir

shiver905 said:


> What do you guys thinking about Chopping the RO/DI unit i already have and use the 3 Stage Pre Filter and conecting it to the new one.
> (8 stages). Considering I already have it.


What exactly is the problem with the one you have? It cant be difficult to find and fix the problem for FAR FAR cheaper than buying yet another unit. The important thing to your RO/DI is the filters and quality of water its putting out, not the filter housings.

As for the 8 stage thing, whats your water like out of the tap? If you are on a well, or city water with high chlorine you could use them as pre filters to catch the sediment, or chlorine before it destroys the important parts (Ro membrane, and DI resin)

If you have decent water from the tap, its most likely pointless as you cant go any lower than 0tds


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## shiver905




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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> TDS out of the tap is 230+
> 
> Problem Im having is- Its hitting 70TDS out of the ro/di Unit.
> Just pissing me off. I didnt think i would have any problems with this unit.
> 
> I might Just end up giveing it a clean and changing out all the filters and adding another DI.


Are these new cartriges?


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## Ægir

CLUSTER ONE said:


> TDS out of the tap is 230+
> 
> Problem Im having is- Its hitting 70TDS out of the ro/di Unit.
> Just pissing me off. I didnt think i would have any problems with this unit.
> 
> I might Just end up giveing it a clean and changing out all the filters and adding another DI.


Are these new cartriges?
[/quote]

If they are new, it could be that one isnt seated properly and is just being diverted around. The RO membranes are sometimes a pain to line up and seat properly, as are the other filters if you dont pay attention.


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## shiver905

F*ck it.
Im buying a new unit.

Feef, You shold also consider it.
200+tax.

Im going in 2moro or the next day holla if u want 1 too.


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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> F*ck it.
> Im buying a new unit.
> 
> Feef, You shold also consider it.
> 200+tax.
> 
> Im going in 2moro or the next day holla if u want 1 too.


Are you getting a new one from the local company REEF water? Do they have a store somewhere? Tell me how it goes as i may be looking for a small ro unit eventually


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## shiver905

CLUSTER ONE said:


> F*ck it.
> Im buying a new unit.
> 
> Feef, You shold also consider it.
> 200+tax.
> 
> Im going in 2moro or the next day holla if u want 1 too.


Are you getting a new one from the local company REEF water? Do they have a store somewhere? Tell me how it goes as i may be looking for a small ro unit eventually
[/quote]

Cool,

I'll let you know how it works out!.
Should be soon


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## shiver905

It turns out. He sells for BRS.
So thats even better.

I picked up a 5 stage.
Its making ZERO TDS water









FINALLY!!!!
Pictures will come soon


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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> It turns out. He sells for BRS.
> So thats even better.
> 
> I picked up a 5 stage.
> Its making ZERO TDS water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FINALLY!!!!
> Pictures will come soon


What's brs? Im assuming some brand id probably recognize in full words


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## shiver905

Ill throw up some pictures and give you al the info soom.

As for now.

Im thinking if I should use Live rock.
Or Fake Dry rock..


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## Guest

CLUSTER ONE said:


> It turns out. He sells for BRS.
> So thats even better.
> 
> I picked up a 5 stage.
> Its making ZERO TDS water
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FINALLY!!!!
> Pictures will come soon


What's brs? Im assuming some brand id probably recognize in full words
[/quote]

I think its Bulk Reef Supply. I enjoy following both your build Shiver and Feefa's. I am seriously thinking of doing a saltwater tank.

Sean heres a video of a BRS 5 stage http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7473487/19717827


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## shiver905

Right on Ksls!
You should start a reef. Its very rewarding.
Start up cost is alot and it scares people. But the upKeep isnt that bad at all.
With a properly setup tank it isnt that hard.

Bulk Reef Supplies.

It worked out great,
To be honest this was the Ro/Di filter I really 
wanted but didnt want to deal with US shiping and other charges.

There fitting are GREAT. 
I had to deal with several different types. All were crappy I sprung leaks all over the place.
The Murlock fitting are Very high quality.

AS for the filter. I researched, Turns out Matrix and Purtrex Filters are rated very very high.

As for the install,
It was a breeze,

As for my water.
ZERO TDS right of the bat.

I have pics but I lost my camera cord.
I will post them soon.
---

I finalized all the plumbing -
I did a leak test. Things leaked, But all fixed now.
Im filling the tank with RO/DI water as I type.


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## CLUSTER ONE

I actually figured brs out yesterday when i was on their site looking at some GFO media and im likoe ohh BRS!!!

Does this place you got it from have a price list/website or just a local shop? For ro units i know smaller will have a smaller gpd and im fien with that as i dont need very much at all, but how much would the finial tds be effected for a 3 module unit vs a 4 module unit with a DI?

KSLS you should start a sw tank there awsome. You dont even need fish, there are just so many little critters to look at and sw inverts are awsome


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## shiver905

CLUSTER ONE said:


> I actually figured brs out yesterday when i was on their site looking at some GFO media and im likoe ohh BRS!!!
> 
> Does this place you got it from have a price list/website or just a local shop? For ro units i know smaller will have a smaller gpd and im fien with that as i dont need very much at all, but how much would the finial tds be effected for a 3 module unit vs a 4 module unit with a DI?
> 
> KSLS you should start a sw tank there awsome. You dont even need fish, there are just so many little critters to look at and sw inverts are awsome


The membrain controls the GPD.
The norm for that is 75GPD.

Dont get just the RO system.
You need DI.

So the minimum id recommend is the 4 stage Ro/Di.
But if I were you id pay that little extra and grab the 5 stage--> you will be happy with it in the long run.

BTW PM sent.


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## CLUSTER ONE

So if the membrane controls the gpd i could have a 5 stage that has low gpd if i wanted to? Where do you send your ro water and the waste water? Do you just fill two buckets to use or do you do your ro water straight to sump?


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## shiver905

CLUSTER ONE said:


> So if the membrane controls the gpd i could have a 5 stage that has low gpd if i wanted to? Where do you send your ro water and the waste water? Do you just fill two buckets to use or do you do your ro water straight to sump?


Yes correct.
You can have a 10 stage and still have lower or higher gpd. The membrain is what controls it.

I would not go any lower then 75 gpd. At most places the 75/100/150 gpd are almost the same price.
Grab the 75 because the DOW memberains are amazing and readly avaliable.
--

There are many ways you can set up your ro/di.
For now. I have it connected to my Water source threw a saddle valve on my copper pipe.
My waste goes directly into my drain- (furnace room.

--

The waste water ratio is usually 3:1 - 3 parts waste to each part pure water.


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## shiver905

Yess a camera!

I just finished my 3 day leak test.
Everything seems fine.
Im going to empty it all out and fill her back up with RO/DI and some salt.

I know its a mess, I havent done any cable management yet. 
Not even a GFCI yet.

WHAT NO SUMP???









Kiddin.









The mag 12 is really getting this going.

















There is still alot more work b4 the cycle.
But its coming along.

For cluster.
This is how mine is mounted


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Your bedroom is sick bro


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## shiver905

thanks,

my testing table


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## shiver905

Not much of an art guy, But

I thought this pictures suits the tank perfectly









"Blown Away"
-Steve Steigman


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## His Majesty

looking great shiver. nice work


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## shiver905




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## Ægir

Looks good man!


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## shiver905

Wow,

Thanks guys.
Really means alot more then u guys think.

It s been a great day,
Woke up checked the tank, Everything was perfect.
Had a job interview. I think I got it.
Some LR might be coming 2day.
Boss called and said i can get drunk at work and still get payed.
It also helps that its my BDAY!!!

have a good one guys!


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## Guest

Looking good Shiver!! Oh I almost forgot.....








HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!


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## shiver905

Heres the rock escape.
Im a fan of open space as you can tell.
About 20lbs of rock in there.
I'll need about 20lbs more in the sump.


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## shiver905

Im thinking of grabbing a reef keeper lite .
Anyone used one b4/


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## Ægir

shiver905 said:


> Im thinking of grabbing a reef keeper lite .
> Anyone used one b4/


We are using the Elite on my build in polson... its awesome! The lite is affordable, and now can have most the features the elite has (internet, etc) with add on modules.

It makes your life easier, yet can cause laziness in the long run. Personally i love being able to read ORP, tank PH, reactor PH, and even salinity on a heads up display, but still test just as often as before.


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## shiver905

Put in Phosban reactor with carbon and gfo. Didnt really know how much- So i just filled it up with equal parts of both.

Also got the BM150 Skimmer dailed in. At least I think cuz there no bio load.

Now I guess I wait.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Thats some pretty good rock, where you get it? Are you going to buy a auto top off, you know if they are sold locally around our parts?


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## shiver905

Alot is sold around the GTA/halton area man.

Its the powerhouse of Canada.

For an ATO, I might build one and connect it to the ro/di.
Or I might garb the one form BRS. Theres a BRS product dealer in Guelf.
You can pick up or he can ship it to you. Let me know if you want his contact.

I figured out what was wrong with my old ro/di.
It needs a new membrain.

Cluster if you want to try it out. Let me know.

The LR is from a reefer down the street.
..

Update;

I got the BM150 Dailed in.
I set up the GFO/Carbon reactor.
Now i wait.


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## shiver905

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/level-loc-auto-top-off-unit-for-ro-systems.html#


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## Ægir

shiver905 said:


> http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/level-loc-auto-top-off-unit-for-ro-systems.html#


a couple things to consider... if that float valve fails, it will pump RO/DI water and can nuke your system... secondly, its not good for your RO/DI unit to make small amounts frequently. You should make 10 gallons or something more at 1 time, and use a secondary pump to top off. That way, worst case it can only dump in 5 gals (or your container size) and actually the JBJ ATO will only run the pump for a limited time (if the float sticks) so it cant really hurt anything in a failure.

That, and holy crap... you can get the JBJ ATO, a pump, and all parts for that price.


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## shiver905

UPDATE to the LIST.

Dont buy Used Live Sand unless you know the source personally.
With that said it goes for LR also. Make shure you examin Every rock.
There are huge benifits of buying dead rock, If you can wait. Nothing in this hobby truns out right if you rush.


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## shiver905

A sump has many great benifits, Loose the dollar/fear factors and drill your tank.
It is one of the best things you can do for your system.

When you attach Bulkheads, DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN THEM. Instead hand tighten with a bead of aquarium safe silicone on both sides to ensure you have a leak free hold without broken glass.


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## shiver905

Went threw 
Diatoms
Hair algea

Everything cleaned itself,
Now its clear water.

All my tests seem to be spot on.
Im giving it an extra week just to be shure.

Im really really Sick right now,
I caught something while i was at the cottage trip.
When I feel better , I'll go shopping.

Great thing is, I blew the $$ needed for the startup/maintenence.
Now its just restoking supplies/live stock dollers.
Alotta money has been put in this thing, I dont even want to total it up.
But hopefully its done the right way and im happy.

I grabbed another filter sock,
Any1 know a simple yet affective way to clean them?


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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> Great thing is, I blew the $$ needed for the startup/maintenence.
> Now its just restoking supplies/live stock dollers.
> Alotta money has been put in this thing, I dont even want to total it up.
> But hopefully its done the right way and im happy.
> 
> I grabbed another filter sock,
> Any1 know a simple yet affective way to clean them?


I do the same thing with the cost. I just buy stuff bit at a time, but dont add it up. I know it will be alot, but its alot nicer to look at a tank if you dont know it knocked you back like 500$ plus for a reef.

For filter socks i know some people will get multiple then just change the old one for a new one then clean the batch (minus the one in use) at the same time. I do this with my filter floss so i can just throw them in a bucket and clean the group at my convienience. No ultra effective way to clean them that i know, but multiple can allow you to clean them at your convienience and not have to clean them every couple days


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## Ægir

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Great thing is, I blew the $$ needed for the startup/maintenence.
> Now its just restoking supplies/live stock dollers.
> Alotta money has been put in this thing, I dont even want to total it up.
> But hopefully its done the right way and im happy.
> 
> I grabbed another filter sock,
> Any1 know a simple yet affective way to clean them?


I do the same thing with the cost. I just buy stuff bit at a time, but dont add it up. I know it will be alot, but its alot nicer to look at a tank if you dont know it knocked you back like 500$ plus for a reef.

For filter socks i know some people will get multiple then just change the old one for a new one then clean the batch (minus the one in use) at the same time. I do this with my filter floss so i can just throw them in a bucket and clean the group at my convienience. No ultra effective way to clean them that i know, but multiple can allow you to clean them at your convienience and not have to clean them every couple days
[/quote]

I ran my filter socks in the washer with a tablespoon of bleach... Kinda a waste to wash 1 or 2 filter socks, but it worked great.

They need to design them so you can turn them inside out.


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## shiver905

I got Pneumonia.

F*ckin great.
Missed a few days at work. AKA- Boss is gunna be pissed n cut down my hours.

Hopefully I feel better by monday/tuesday.

I need a clown ,

Black Fase perc Or Regular False Perc?
?????????


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Always liked the high quality regular ones


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## His Majesty

i also prefer the regular ones. nice fat healthy ones look the best


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## CLUSTER ONE

i think the black ones look sweet, though its harder to find ones that are solid black as most have fadded heads


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## shiver905

CLUSTER ONE said:


> i think the black ones look sweet, though its harder to find ones that are solid black as most have fadded heads


Alright So i got the winner.

Well it was a tie.


























I managed to find an A grade Black Misbar. As you can tell.


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## His Majesty

congrats on the new fish. they both look top quality


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## Guest

How do you sex clowns?


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## shiver905

You dont, 
One just becomes more dominent.

From what I remember at least.


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## Ægir

ksls said:


> How do you sex clowns?


Clownfish are all born male, and then switch to female at the top of the hierarchy.

IE, theres one dominant female and male, the others are just waiting in line to fill their positions. Typically the females are larger also.


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## Guest

Seriously?? They can change to fill the position. WOw so if you purchase 2 clowns one will change into a female for breeding purposes. Now thats neat!


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## Ægir

ksls said:


> Seriously?? They can change to fill the position. WOw so if you purchase 2 clowns one will change into a female for breeding purposes. Now thats neat!


Well, you can end up with 2 females in which case they will prob fight to the death or pick separate sides of the tank. They are capable of changing back but i dont think its that common. In the wild a second female would be exiled from the group and move on to start a new group.

For example in the install i am doing, we ordered 10 clowns that were all from the same "family" so there was an order already established. If you were to just go online and order 10, theres a good chance you would get a few females, and males all from different groups... and then they would have to re-establish the dominance.

I have seen a few cool tanks where they start with 2 clowns, and let the offspring live in the same tank... 30 something clowns in a tank of anemones is quite the sight to see.


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## shiver905

Hard coral to care of, but i couldnt resist.


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## Guest

Type?


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## shiver905

Flowerpot coral,

Its a little funky.
I dont know which flowerbot coral it exactly is.

Its very very very neon.


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## Grosse Gurke

Looking really nice Shiver.


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## shiver905

My buddy just got a baby fuzzy dwarf lion.
Dumbass bought it beacuse he think it would last in his pred tank. With Some huge mean triggers.
This guys is only 2.5" if that.

So he realized his trigger is trying to eat it. He gave me a call and i picked it up. Im thinking about leaving it in my sump for a month or 2. Untill i can sell or house him properly.
He's the same size of my clown so he cant eat them yet.

What do you guys think. 
My display or Sump?


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## shiver905

30$ If any1 wants him.


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## Ægir

shiver905 said:


> 30$ If any1 wants him.


YES he will eat your clowns, i dont care if they are the same body size... he will try and eventually kill them one way
Banish him to the sump... or setup a designated tank for him?

Be sure to protect any pump intakes, or things like that.


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## shiver905

hes in the sump right now.

I cant get over how neat he is...

Makes my clowns look like feeder fish


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## shiver905

This scape or the older one?
New leamonpeel angel. BRIGHT yellow, But cant capture it.


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## sapir

amazing set up, the new scape looks better imo


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## His Majesty

i prefer the new scape. and congrsts on the new angel. looks shexy


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## shiver905

Got a few types of frogspawns and hammers.
More rock
Cocoa worm

Tanks looking better every day.

Im finnaly starting to appriciate it.


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## His Majesty

looking good


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## CLUSTER ONE

With that amount of rock i liek the old scape better. Peronally i would add a bunch more rock and either pile it in the center at the back or make a ridge and more build on the second scape. Where do you get your corals from?


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## Ægir

CLUSTER ONE said:


> With that amount of rock i liek the old scape better. Peronally i would add a bunch more rock and either pile it in the center at the back or make a ridge and more build on the second scape. Where do you get your corals from?


Looking good man! really starting to take shape


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## shiver905

CLUSTER ONE said:


> With that amount of rock i liek the old scape better. Peronally i would add a bunch more rock and either pile it in the center at the back or make a ridge and more build on the second scape. Where do you get your corals from?


Its alot more rock, I almost doubled it.
I might just keep it this way for awhile.

I get my corals from everywhere from the local LFS, private coral sellers to friends or local fourm members.
As far as corals, Theres isnt much in it.


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## FEEFA

Absolutely amazing, I love the scape


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## shiver905




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## FEEFA

Your room looks so good, loving both tanks in there


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## shiver905

The Upgrade,
It will come when it comes.
Just to gurantee it will happen to myself. I had to grab it.

Also banished my angel
For a new addition
Stay tuned for pics of the new guy.


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## shiver905

The Frogspawn/Hammer Rock


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## Guest

OOoooooo pretty!!!


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## shiver905




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## Guest

Shiver your tank is becoming more and more kickass as they days pass by


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## CLUSTER ONE

ksls said:


> Shiver your tank is becoming more and more kickass as they days pass by


^probably alot more expensive too lol

Shiver, i saw on NR that you have a sybon refractometer. How do you like it and would you recomend it? I have been thinking of getting one especially if im going to a pico as i donjt even know if i coulod fit a hydrometer in a pico.

Also, where did you get the hammer and frogspawn. I have 2 heads of frogspawn (with 2 tiny ones comming) but id like more and mayby some hammer too. How hard is the hammer care compared to the frogspawn?


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## shiver905

Hammers are easy. You wont be dissapointed.

The Sybon Refractometer is Great. I couldnt live without it.
Anything that makes this hobby a little more automated helps.
Take about 5 Seconds to check your water. Its alot more acurate also.


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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> Hammers are easy. You wont be dissapointed.
> 
> The Sybon Refractometer is Great. I couldnt live without it.
> Anything that makes this hobby a little more automated helps.
> Take about 5 Seconds to check your water. Its alot more acurate also.


 excellent thanks. For me its ironic that all my soft corals (kenya tree, gsp, frogspawn, blue ridge) are all doing better then my zoas which are supposed to be able to survive pretty much any conditions. I liek the frog spawn as a frag of 3 heads cost me only 10$ and it spreads out to fill up a good area.


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## shiver905

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Hammers are easy. You wont be dissapointed.
> 
> The Sybon Refractometer is Great. I couldnt live without it.
> Anything that makes this hobby a little more automated helps.
> Take about 5 Seconds to check your water. Its alot more acurate also.


 excellent thanks. For me its ironic that all my soft corals (kenya tree, gsp, frogspawn, blue ridge) are all doing better then my zoas which are supposed to be able to survive pretty much any conditions. I liek the frog spawn as a frag of 3 heads cost me only 10$ and it spreads out to fill up a good area.
[/quote]

I have a little 2 poly frag of zoa. Had it since the 5.5G pico I made. 
It still never grew. But did live for a few days under a sand bed. lol
Personally Im not a fan of zoas anymore.


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## CLUSTER ONE

shiver905 said:


> I have a little 2 poly frag of zoa. Had it since the 5.5G pico I made.
> It still never grew. But did live for a few days under a sand bed. lol
> Personally Im not a fan of zoas anymore.


Im starting to feel the same way. I have lost most of 1 colony and for somw reason just lost another colony after having it for probably half a year and havign it grow. The thing i dont get is in the last couple months I had one polyp go to about 12 and another frag sprouting more heads and doing great. Im probably going to just stick to non zoa soft corals and mayby get something like ric mushrooms for colour and mayby some leathers. Liek you said frags can be a pita especially with snails and crabs. I while ago now i lost a nice frag of orange zoas when it got knoced intoi and buried in the sand and I didn't notice it for a bit.


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## shiver905

He came out of Hideing.
hawaii


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## shiver905

goni colony.









Its actually green.. on the tips.. not white


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Sick pics man. I'm going to use the last one as the BB background if you don't mind homie.


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## His Majesty

looking gorgeous


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## FEEFA

Great pics shiver, what camera are you using these days?


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## shiver905

Ich got into my tank.

I had a bangaii in the QT for about a week or so, I decided to buy another one, - 
I moved the fist baggai into the DP tank. From there ick came into play.

Im not shure whos going to make it. But im on the way to the store to grab a 20L cuz this 5.5g QT is way to small to house both clowns,flame and a bangaii.


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## Ægir

Sorry man, know the feeling. Whats your plan of action?


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## shiver905

No fish made it.

All passed away in the QT. I was treating with CopperSafe.

The plan now. is wait a month or 2, And start Restocking.


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## Ægir

Sorry for your losses man, like i said in my thread 30 days depending on temp of your tank, 45 just to be safe!

You can always focus on some other components of your tank, fish are only one small part... sucks it just so happens to be the most active part


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## Guest

Oh no!! I am sorry to hear about your losses. How long do saltwater fish need to be quarantined anyways? 40 days?


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## His Majesty

Damn. thats a real blow. sorry for your losses


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## Ægir

ksls said:


> Oh no!! I am sorry to hear about your losses. How long do saltwater fish need to be quarantined anyways? 40 days?


Theres no real "formula", All fish should be in quarantine long enough to closely watch for any problems, typically any sort of problem will show itself within the first week (the fish is stressed from transport and new environment), but it can take longer... If the ich dropped off the fish right when it was put in quarantine you would be looking at 2 weeks possibly (give or take depending on temp) until it was something you could even see again. I say 30 days if you have the right setup to hold the fish (no big fish, or tangs in a 10 gal quarantine type of situation) but, not everyone can do that... it might be a week long supervision, where you dip the fish before quarantine and treat it for everything possible... which can kill the fish if not done properly or its already stressed. I had a yellow tang shake off ICH after a fresh water dip (which makes the ich instantly drop off the fish) but thats ONLY if you catch it extremely early... fresh water dips are extremely stressful on the fishes body (osmosis) and odds are the fish will die in the bucket. By the time most people notice it, its already too late and most if not all the fish have it, and are too stressed to survive treatment...

If a fish isnt eating, I would hold it out of the display until it accepted food... if it doesnt eat, that could be an indicator of something internal, and its not worth the risk of a fish dying in the display and fouling up the water.

Even if a fish comes from a friends tank, or display where it has been with no signs or symptoms of anything... it would be advised to still isolate the fish (even corals, rocks, etc) before adding it. All of those things can transport ICH, fungus, mold, flatworms, and other bad bugs.


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## shiver905

From what i remember the ICH cycle dies after 4 weeks without a host.

As for how long you should put a fish in a QT.
From my lesson learned, id say 4 weeks.

If you notice anything off about your fish, Take it the hell outta there and put it in the QT.

Another pointer:

Have a QT tank ready when you begin the hobby

another:

QT fish for a period of at least 3 weeks bfore introduction to your DP tank


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## Ægir

shiver905 said:


> From what i remember the ICH cycle dies after 4 weeks without a host.
> 
> As for how long you should put a fish in a QT.
> From my lesson learned, id say 4 weeks.


Thats correct, the cycle dies after 4 weeks, but that CAN vary by temp of your tank... thats why i say 45 days because i know FOR SURE at normal tank temps its totally gone. It only takes one survivor to re-infest your tank and that outbreak might come MONTHS after you have added more fish.

If you jacked your temp up to 82 or higher then you could shorten the cycle span BUT prob not if you have anything in the tank you wanted to stay alive.

You would visually know for sure if your fish in QT had ich or anything within the first 2 or 3 weeks of getting them, and treatment would have begun before 4 weeks anyways... so i would say that number is spot on. 30 days with no problems and accepting food is more than adequate.

Hands down the worst part about ICH in a reef is you cant use copper... copper kills ALL INVERTS including copepods and beneficial things in your tank. That and it will permanently saturate all of your live rock, and continue to leech and cause problems...


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## FEEFA

That sucks shiver, so sorry for your losses.


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## shiver905

****** said:


> Great pics shiver, what camera are you using these days?


Miseed that question..
Im useing a regular cannon P&S now.
My DSLR has been sold.


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## shiver905

Update with the old,
Building with the new.[
IMG]http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww137/wha_gwan/01.jpg[/IMG]


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## shiver905

65g,



















im getting there.


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## His Majesty

keep the good work up shiver.


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## shiver905

tank is done,

Glad to say all corals made it,

Now im just cooking up a LR tower.

Pics wil come up when all setup and looking preety.


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## shiver905

Well,

The tank transfer is all done.

..

Right side Island


















Left side island



















Front


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

I love this hobby, cant handle it right now. Respect to you shiver, love what you are doing.


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## the_w8

Very impressive...I would so love to have a saltwater tank, but I'm scared of going what you went through. Those fish you have and those anenomies are absolutely stunning. GREAT WORK is all i can say wow


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## CLUSTER ONE

Looks good. I like the look of your islands. Are you taking down the last tank or just setting up a second tank?

Are there any anemonies or just frogspawn, hammers...?


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## shiver905

Theres a red bubble tip in there somewhere,
The old tank is shut down,
Might sell it if theres anyone here looking to start up,
Or might keep it as an emergency QT.

Just picked up ESV 2 part.
The demands of this tank grew,
So I have to start dosing ca/alk/mag.

Maybe this will lead to future acros,
But as always. Lets take our time.


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## shiver905

All thing are well in the ne tank


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## Ægir

Looking GREAT man! Keep up the good work (and pictures!)


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## His Majesty

looking gorgeous shiver good job


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## shiver905

The tank on auto pilot for now untill my exams are done.
The few frags I have are in the sump.

Im really considering just Adding a boat load of LR and making it look like the more "conventional" reef.
wat you guys think?


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## His Majesty

personally i dont like tanks which are overloaded with LR. 
this simplistic look you have is great and shows off the corals nicely.


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## CLUSTER ONE

His Majesty said:


> personally i dont like tanks which are overloaded with LR.
> this simplistic look you have is great and shows off the corals nicely.


For conventional reefs i love a ton of live rock. The only time i like little live rock is when the person is doing a less natural artistic reef like:


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## shiver905

Damn colors are wayy off





































Stocking is going fairly well,

But I just dont know what to put on the LR..
..Its driving me nuts.

A vid,,
Yes im no pro.LOL
http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf


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## JeanLucPicard

Tank looks great man, any updates?


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