# Ideas ?



## Ydav (Aug 17, 2004)

PH Amonia	Comments

Tursday 28 PH 7.0 Amonia 0.0	Install box filters, NEW WATER 
Friday 29 PH 7.0	Amonia 0.0	
Saturday 30 PH  7.0	Amonia 0.0 3 oscars, 2 plecos, 20 feeders
Sunday 31 PH 8.5	Amonia 1.5 
August-05 
Monday 01 PH 9.0 Amonia 3.0	Tiger lying on the rock, Albino seems weak, plecos and feeders are fine, 20% water change, added 7g, from established tank. New PH 8, amoniya 2.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ydav said:


> PH Amonia	Comments
> 
> Tursday 28 PH 7.0 Amonia 0.0	Install box filters, NEW WATER
> Friday 29 PH 7.0	Amonia 0.0
> ...


So I take it you are trying to cycle the tank?

What about your Nitrite and Nitrate readings?


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## Ydav (Aug 17, 2004)

never measured them...

what difference does it make ?

O's are gona die from PH and Amonia... I cant do water changes 2 times a day


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ydav said:


> never measured them...
> 
> what difference does it make ?
> 
> ...


I would use Amquel to make the ammonia less toxic and add salt to combat nitrite poisoning. I m not sure why your pH is fluctuating like that though.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

You really need to figure out why your ph is going so high. Ammonia is much more toxic with a high ph. Have you added any new decor or rocks lately? What is your substrait?


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## Ydav (Aug 17, 2004)

Substrate is Lava rock and sand... mostly white sand, lava rock only covers up the filters...

there is at least 10 dead feeders in the roks... that' the amonia, right there... (wanted to feed the cycle)

PH is probably from Amonia brakedown ?

I have been using:
cycle,
dry (cycle like stuff)
Water conditioner AamQuel (chlorine, chloride and amonia)
Stress coat(chlorine chloride and metals)
aquarium solt.

PH is ither from Amonia brakedown or a byproduct of the chemicals I have been using...

10 to 15 dead feeders decomposing in a 130g tank... would raise the ammonia...


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

As far as I'm aware, the amount of ammonia has no effects on the pH - the only relation between the two is that the higher the pH, the more toxic the ammonia.

Have you tested the pH of your tap water? I doubt any of the chemicals will affect the pH that drastically (if at all), which makes me believe it's either something you use as decor, or bad readings.

To follow the progress of the cycle, the parameters you need to monitor are ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes.
At first, ammonia will skyrocket and then slowly decrease to zero, then nitrItes will skyrocket and then slowly decrease to zero, and in the end, nitrAtes will increase. Once you have detectable nitrAtes and zero ammonia and nitrItes, you're set: do a water change, and you can introduce your fish.

One last thing: if I were you, I'd cut using all those chemicals as soon as possible. That's quite a cocktail you brewed there - maybe the interaction between all those substances has unknown side-effects (like an increasing pH)?
You can cycle a tank without using any chemicals except water conditioner - it's more natural, more stable (no chemicals that react with each other), and in the end you're tank water will be MUCH cleaner (no chemical traces).


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> You really need to figure out why your ph is going so high. Ammonia is much more toxic with a high ph. Have you added any new decor or rocks lately? What is your substrait?
> [snapback]1142030[/snapback]​


On your ph, I am wondering what kind of media you are running in your filters??

I notice you said


> added 7g, from established tank.


I wanted to comment that adding water from an established tank will not help your cycle, your beneficial bacteria does not colonize in the water.

Any chance you can snag a sponge or some media from an established tank??This will help seed your tank with bacteria........


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## Ydav (Aug 17, 2004)

Thanks for your responces









The Established tank is my old Piranha Tank, I gave it to dad... So I know that water quality is good... If I could get at least 50% of my new tank with that water, cycling would not be an issue.

this morning 2 smal oskars wore dead... the biger one seems fine, maybe a little inactive.

I am using Lava Rock in the 4 large corner filters rated for 30g each, and to cover them up. the 2 Mugnums wore on back-order, so I will get them in a week or two (there is a 6 week wait on Magnum's Bio-weel to kick in).

For some reason I thought that PH levels wore involved in the cycle... hey you only need to cycle it once, so I do not remeber... Thanks for refreshing my memory on how the cycle works









I will do Nitrate/Nitrites levels tonight...


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ydav said:


> If I could get at least 50% of my new tank with that water, cycling would not be an issue.
> [snapback]1142346[/snapback]​


Like Mas said, old water will do nothing to help you at this point, it would just get messed up in a day or two. You would need some established media from that tank to help your cycle, that is where the beneficial bacteria colonize in numbers.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Ydav said:


> Thanks for your responces
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Humm....nothing I see to up your ph level, like that.......

Just a hunch of mine, but I bet the cycle product raised your ph.I used that stuff one time on a new tank with new substrate, but all used media, 4 filters worth.I threw some cycle in(the stuff in the bottle) and i saw nothing from it, but my ph went up to the high 7's, very unusual considering ph on all my other tanks ranges from 6.2-6.8, and my tap runs 7, i concur the cycle jacked it up, and i suspect that is the cause of your high ph....
I see no buffering media to jack your ph up, and certainly amqueal and stress coat will not.Salt possibly could, i mean if you really loaded it down, but I think it is that cycle.

I reread the post and I agree with Judazz, I would lay off all the chemicals.No need for amqueal and stress coat, as they both will condition the water.....

ph doesnt really have an impact on the cycle unless its crazy high or crazy low, just important to know what your typical ph is, and obviously ammonai and that can be more toxic when its higher.

I would see what the other readings are and go from there to work through getting everything stabalized....


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Too many cheicals are indeed bad. Ditch the cycle (it's garbage in a bottle), and ditch the stress coat. Amqel will remove the chlorine and continue to neutralize the ammonia until you are finished cycling.


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## Ydav (Aug 17, 2004)

So you guys are saying that AmQuel is Better then Stress Coat?

I kinda thought that Stress Coat is better, at least on account that it does not touch Amonia and leaving the the tank to cycle on it's own...

My Tap waters PH is 8.0.. well between 7.5 and 8.0...

Tank PH has been stable at 8.0 on Tuesday and Wends. I wonder if I should Use PH down chemicals, since O's like Netral range 6.5-7.5.

Amonia went down today to about 2.0.
N02 is a little more then 0.8

the remainig Oscar seems fine, but bored...

I got the him, the bigger Oscar at Walmart. the other two at a pet store that only sells fish... they died in 2 days... The feeder fish count is down to 5 (from about 20) no dead bodies... man that Oscar is a hungry fellow









my water is at mid cycle at 1 week. Can you get that without using Cycle and other garbage? Accourding to Cycle instuctions I should treat the water again (it's been 7 days)... Hmm... what the hell... If I do not use it up it's garbadge.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

You have fish in your tank. You NEED to detoxify the ammonia at this point. Amquel will just detoxify the ammonia, it will not effect the cycle.

You really need to watch fooling with pH adjusters. You water is pretty hard, and you will have problems getting a stable pH with that stuff.

Cycle is JUNK. It is absolutely worthless.


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## Ydav (Aug 17, 2004)

ok, fine.. i will not use Cycle any more...

but I will need to buffer down the PH reguraly... is there an none-chemical way to do it ?


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ydav said:


> ok, fine.. i will not use Cycle any more...
> 
> but I will need to buffer down the PH reguraly... is there an none-chemical way to do it ?
> 
> ...


Oscars can thrive just fine in a pH of 8.0. Attempting to alter it will cause more stress then it will benefits.

You honestly should worry more about their diet, and the water quality (I.E. nitrates, ammonia etc) then you should pH. You are more likely to have problems with HITH with poor water quality and diet.


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