# Planting The Tank, Need Help



## Dolphinswin

Should i wait till i stock my new fish to plant it or plant it now before he gets here? Its a 75gal and im looking for some easy plants and make it look cool. I have some drift wood id like to place in also. No special lighting just normal flourescent lights. thanks


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## Ba20

plant now


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

Plant the tank before it arrives, it's best to avoid adding extra stress by messing with the tank while it's settling in.


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## Johnny_Zanni

If it doesn't like the plants anyway you will know.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

i say now as well


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## Johnny_Zanni

Im saying later but thats assuming your getting a big rhom. If your getting something smaller like an elong or RRS then do it now.


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## Ba20

big rhom or not it will help your water quality and looks good on the eye


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## CLUSTER ONE

Dolphinswin said:


> Should i wait till i stock my new fish to plant it or plant it now before he gets here? Its a 75gal and im looking for some easy plants and make it look cool. I have some drift wood id like to place in also. No special lighting just normal flourescent lights. thanks


 Plant now so hopefully they can get a bit of roots going so they don't get knocked up. Something like crypts, annubias, java fern, moss.. should work but "stock flouro" gives no real info.


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## Dolphinswin

alrighty i might do it tonight. Thing im worried about is the moss stuff. You have to like tie it to the driftwood and stuff.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

ya do it tonigt...itll be be good for the water and the less u put ur hands in and move things around the less stressed ur P will be till he settles in


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## Dolphinswin

I kinda didnt know what i was doing so i bought these plants. I think the guy gave me a amazon melon sword or something, java moss, some floating stuff i think is java fern? also go some weird plant that i put in the middle. I couldnt get my big drift wood to stay under so i just said screw that. I almost bought a couple moss balls but i didnt. Oh yea and i bought a plant light thing, so i got a new bulb but it seems to be a bit bright and I know my piranha wont like it, so should i buy more floating plants or put some electrical tape on it like i did on my other light? Could some one embed the pic, its not working on my laptop. http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/piranhatankplants.jpg


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## Dolphinswin

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/flaosdfasf.jpg


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## BuckeyeGuy777

that pic sucks worse than the first....it doesnt look like java fern at all


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## Dolphinswin

how does the first suck? its an amazon sword something, java moss and another weird looking grass thing.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

The floating plant looks like Hygrophila difformis -- wisteria


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## Dolphinswin

I think that is what it is. Should i get rid of the floating plants? Maybe i could bring those back and trade them in or something?


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## BuckeyeGuy777

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> The floating plant looks like Hygrophila difformis -- wisteria


thats what i just told him....it looks like wisteria


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## Dolphinswin

Here my plants i bought and my new scape. I like it. My uploader isnt working if someone could embed It be greatly appreciate it.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/pic1.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/pic2.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/pic3.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/pic4.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/pic5.jpg


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## BuckeyeGuy777

do a whole tank shot


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## Johnny_Zanni




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## CLUSTER ONE

I suggest not taping the light so its full power the p's will get used to it and not all your plants are fine in low light. Id also suggest to buy the specific plants we are mentioning as they have the best chance of survival and go from them. It seems you are just gettting whatever plants you find which can be costly if those plants arn't suited for your tank.

Can you get a pic of your light fixture and why are you trying to elevate it?


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## FEEFA

Post a full tank shot


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## Dolphinswin

the fixture just needed to be elevated because i didnt want the bulbs on the tank lid. That problem is solved. i got crypts, a melon sword, 2 oriental swords, some vals and thats it... Supposedly all will be fine with my lights. the thing on the top is my hand shading the tank lights lol. http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/fulltankshot.jpg


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## CLUSTER ONE

Dolphinswin said:


> the fixture just needed to be elevated because i didnt want the bulbs on the tank lid. That problem is solved. i got crypts, a melon sword, 2 oriental swords, some vals and thats it... Supposedly all will be fine with my lights. the thing on the top is my hand shading the tank lights lol. http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo138/Dolphinswin12/fulltankshot.jpg


 Can you get a pic of the actual light. From your aqhu pic it looks like it shoudl be farily easy to build some wooden legs for the fixture and just screw the fixture to them.


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## Johnny_Zanni




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## BuckeyeGuy777

ur pictures suck


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## Dolphinswin

dont understand how that sucks... its clear as day...


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## Sacrifice

Just my opinion but I would've spent the money a decent stand before I bought that light. Cinder blocks work but I wouldn't want them forever. You'd be amazed at just how cheap you can build your own.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

he didnt want to cut any wood to fix his light problem....i doubt he'd take on a stand....hes to busy taking ceramics


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## superbite

pu some effort into your pics, it looks like you were walking by and taking a pic and your hand is in it?


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## CLUSTER ONE

Your covering the lights. Thats what I want to see since you don't seem to be able to describe them in any detail.


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## Dolphinswin

superbite said:


> he didnt want to cut any wood to fix his light problem....i doubt he'd take on a stand....hes to busy taking ceramics


I either take ceramics or i dont graduate its the easiest art class.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Dolphinswin said:


> How is this not cleear in any way? The bulbs sick out about 1" from the bottom of the fixture, i rest the bulbs on a piece of plexi glass, the plexi lays atop a small piece of wood on both ends of the tank. The bulbs fit tight agaisnt the fixture on the ends. Its made to be hung. That clear?


 It would be alot clearer if you knew if these bulbs were t8, t12, kelvin value, bulb wattage, type of refletors...

-Note; t8 and t12 are bulb diameters (X/8 inches-ie t8 is 1" t12 is 1.5" diameter), wattage and K value should be on the bulb or the box you got it in. Also note most bulbs form hardware stores are not the correct bulbs for photosynthesis though you may be able to find some bulbs at a hardware store for indoor gardening that would be cheap and better choices then some kitchen lightbulb.

"standard florecent" is about as helpful for planted tanks as asking if a black hob filter will work on your tank. Mayby it will work but its alot easier if you can tell us what filter it is, fish you want and the size of your tank. I can assume things but IMO if you want a planted tank first thing you should learn is the bastics of lighting as a wrong bulb could get you a bunch of algae and thigns like insuffienent lighting and reflectors may not be enough for some plants.

I guess time will tell how effective your lights will be since you don't seem to know anything about them.


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## Dolphinswin

CLUSTER ONE said:


> How is this not cleear in any way? The bulbs sick out about 1" from the bottom of the fixture, i rest the bulbs on a piece of plexi glass, the plexi lays atop a small piece of wood on both ends of the tank. The bulbs fit tight agaisnt the fixture on the ends. Its made to be hung. That clear?


 It would be alot clearer if you knew if these bulbs were t8, t12, kelvin value, bulb wattage, type of refletors...

-Note; t8 and t12 are bulb diameters (X/8 inches-ie t8 is 1" t12 is 1.5" diameter), wattage and K value should be on the bulb or the box you got it in. Also note most bulbs form hardware stores are not the correct bulbs for photosynthesis though you may be able to find some bulbs at a hardware store for indoor gardening that would be cheap and better choices then some kitchen lightbulb.

"standard florecent" is about as helpful for planted tanks as asking if a black hob filter will work on your tank. Mayby it will work but its alot easier if you can tell us what filter it is, fish you want and the size of your tank. I can assume things but IMO if you want a planted tank first thing you should learn is the bastics of lighting as a wrong bulb could get you a bunch of algae and thigns like insuffienent lighting and reflectors may not be enough for some plants.

I guess time will tell how effective your lights will be since you don't seem to know anything about them.
[/quote]
I had stated in AQHU what they were. forgot to put it in here. They are t12. Doesnt matter my plants arent looking that great. The crypts are turning brown and my previously green swords are getting small brown spots on the leaves.


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## FEEFA

How do you hope to be successful in keeping plants if you dont even know the specs of your equipment.
Seems that your mentality is light is light so it must be good enough.

Doesnt surprise me one bit that your plants are not doing well









Do you even know how many watts per gallon you're running?


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## Dolphinswin

Nope bur I was told bymany this is good enough. There dual 40 watt bulbs. I guess if the plants are dying nothing I can do...


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## Dolphinswin

I like to also say that I dont believe the plants have went through the gowing period at the beginning of the tank. I read somewhere they are supposed to turn brown a little... Im kind of worried about not only the plants but is my tank even ready for a rhom? Its been idiling off tilapia for like a week and a half. If anyone could please help it would be appreciated, lol if these plants die ill have to use fakes again.


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## Dolphinswin




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## CLUSTER ONE

What is the K value of the bulbs? Plants do photosynthesis best at specific wavelenths so all light is NOT equal for them. Did you get the plants at a petco? Crypts shoudl not be dying even in that light. I have one 40W t12 over my 125 and I have mayby 75 crypts all growing fine. Swords may want more light and a better substrate though. My thought is if you got the plants at petco is they may of been grown emmersed which petco often does and they shouldn't as it usually casued a die off as the plant changes to its submerged varient.

Also. I don't memorize everybodies setups. Chances are I won't remember you mentioning your lights somewhere else especially if it was in the AQHU.

What's your ammonia, nitrites and nitrate as unless your monitoring it you may be spiking in by adding talapia.

How long per day do you leave the lights on?


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## Dolphinswin

CLUSTER ONE said:


> What is the K value of the bulbs? Plants do photosynthesis best at specific wavelenths so all light is NOT equal for them. Did you get the plants at a petco? Crypts shoudl not be dying even in that light. I have one 40W t12 over my 125 and I have mayby 75 crypts all growing fine. Swords may want more light and a better substrate though. My thought is if you got the plants at petco is they may of been grown emmersed which petco often does and they shouldn't as it usually casued a die off as the plant changes to its submerged varient.
> 
> Also. I don't memorize everybodies setups. Chances are I won't remember you mentioning your lights somewhere else especially if it was in the AQHU.
> 
> What's your ammonia, nitrites and nitrate as unless your monitoring it you may be spiking in by adding talapia.


I tested ammonia today at it was 0. Ill go check for nitrates and such. But i got the plants from a different store not petco and they were submerged in a 75gal. Im not sure the K thing... One sword seems to be ok the other to got some brown going on. please refer to the pics. I had them setup for 12 hrs a day, today i upped it to 13.

I think i have found the culprit. 70-80ppm nitrate. WTF MAN! nitrite 0 ammonia 0, water 75 soft. im in deep sh*t, my fish is coming on tuesday!

the Kh is low like it always has been. Man this is no good.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Have you added salt or anything to your water?


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## Dolphinswin

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Have you added salt or anything to your water?


nope. What should i do cluster? I did a small water change on friday.. 15% or so.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Is that algae on the cypts of are the actual plants turning colours?

I also thing swords are more of an intermediate plant then a beginner plant as they would do better with some added nutrients. I'd see if you can find some cheap root tabs or something like that as that may help the swords. Dosing a fert may help too but I know flourish excel will kill some vals so be careful with that.

How is the moss, wisteria, and the grass doing (also what species of grass is it?)?

Swords im not really suppried are browning but the crypts should be fine. I don't think light duration is the problem and runnign 13h per day can cause some algae issues.


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## Dolphinswin

the moss doesnt look the best either. I got rid of the wisteria. the crypts are turning brown it looks like... i dont know about algae. Im worried about the nitrate killing my fish thats coming this week. I dont have any grass, i got rid of it. just the crypts. the left sword is a little better than the others. the other 2 are droopy a bit and one has a transparent looking leaf, or in other words its a light purple.


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## AKSkirmish

Listen to the words of Don H in this thread...Smartest guy to hit fury......Do read the whole thing and you will get a better idea of how to deal with the Nitrate

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/7821-how-does-high-nitrates-levels-affect-the-piranha/


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## CLUSTER ONE

For your swords i dont think your lights are adequet. Adding some root tabs may help but it may not be enough. They may do a bit better if you can get them to establish a root system.

For the crypts It looks almost like algae on them. Put your hand in the tank and feel the leaf to see if its slimey. If it is its algae and it may be casue by excessive algae of the wrong spectrum of light. If it is alge I would cut back the light to 8-10h and you may want an actual lfs plant bulb that won't cause algae. If it is algae it should't kill the plant but it doesn't look the best.


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## Dolphinswin

CLUSTER ONE said:


> For your swords i dont think your lights are adequet. Adding some root tabs may help but it may not be enough. They may do a bit better if you can get them to establish a root system.
> 
> For the crypts It looks almost like algae on them. Put your hand in the tank and feel the leaf to see if its slimey. If it is its algae and it may be casue by excessive algae of the wrong spectrum of light. If it is alge I would cut back the light to 8-10h and you may want an actual lfs plant bulb that won't cause algae. If it is algae it should't kill the plant but it doesn't look the best.


ill do that but we have bigger problems than the plants. I need to get this nitrates under control, what would make them spike? all thats in there are plants and 2 quarter sized pieces of tilapia.


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## CLUSTER ONE

too much talapia will make too much ammonia which will make too much nitrite which will make too much nitrate. Remove the talapia and it will go down from the plants and waterchanges.


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## Dolphinswin

CLUSTER ONE said:


> too much talapia will make too much ammonia which will make too much nitrite which will make too much nitrate. Remove the talapia and it will go down from the plants and waterchanges.


there is no ammonia or nitrite.... I cant remove it or my BB will die. Im f*cking lost as hell this sucks. I think i will go do a water change.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Dolphinswin said:


> too much talapia will make too much ammonia which will make too much nitrite which will make too much nitrate. Remove the talapia and it will go down from the plants and waterchanges.


there is no ammonia or nitrite.... I cant remove it or my BB will die. Im f*cking lost as hell this sucks. I think i will go do a water change.
[/quote]
Theres no ammonia of nitrite b/c your bacteria has converted it to nitrate hence the high nitrate. Your bacteria will be fine a couple days with no talapia untill you get the fish. Id at least remove one piece and mayby switch the other one for a new piece.


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## Dolphinswin

results:
I did a 50 percent change.
I felt the plants, you can rub alot of the brown off of them.

put in stress zyme or the chlorine remover thing
also put in half a capful of prime.

So what would u do cluster, take all the tilapia out till fish arrive maybe tues or leave half of it in? i changed them both this morning.


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## CLUSTER ONE

For the swords id: 
-remove them
- add root tabs or something liek flourish excell

For the crypts:
-reduce lighting to 8-10h per day
-find a proper plant bulb if you dont already have one as an inproper bulb can cause algae

For the nitrate (assuming the fish is arrivign tuesday):
-remove one piece today and the second tommorow. 
-test ammonia, no2/3 for the next 2 days to be sure the tank is suitable for the rhom.


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## Dolphinswin

CLUSTER ONE said:


> For the swords id:
> -remove them
> - add root tabs or something liek flourish excell
> 
> For the crypts:
> -reduce lighting to 8-10h per day
> -find a proper plant bulb if you dont already have one as an inproper bulb can cause algae
> 
> For the nitrate (assuming the fish is arrivign tuesday):
> -remove one piece today and the second tommorow.
> -test ammonia, no2/3 for the next 2 days to be sure the tank is suitable for the rhom.


Im not going against what your saying but i was told by many members that i should have enough light for the swords. taking them out isnt really an option as if i did that i might as well not do a planted tank. I have 1 piece in there now. I only have 1 more strip lol that will show ph,nitrite,nitrate, etc. I have a ton of ammonia ones. what is no2/3?


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## CLUSTER ONE

Im not saying nessisarily saying anything is wrong with the lights im saying swords often require nutrient rich soil inorder to do well. In a standard gravel they don't get these nutrients and may show nutrient defficincies


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

I wouldn't worry about the nitrates at all, there's no fish in there yet... what I'd do is just leave everything the way it is and remove the fish a couple days before your rhom is scheduled to arrive and then perform a 50% water change to cut the nitrates down to 40ppm, then perform another water change right before the rhom is delivered to your house to get them near the 20ppm range. Go easy on feeding for the first week or so and keep testing your water to make sure things are in check and you'll be fine.

The brown stuff on the leaves are just diatoms, it's pretty common, just rub it off the leaves for now and it should clear up on it's own after a few weeks. Plants need some time to settle in after you stick them in the tank, so I'd just give them some time before you start worrying, just keep in mind that you won't have success with every plant, you gotta see what will work in your tank by experimenting.


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## Dolphinswin

I did a 50 percent change las nite. Ill call ash who I get home to see if he is shipping today. If he is ill remove the tilapia tonite a d do another change tomorrow before he arrives. Sound good?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

Sounds good to me... Your main concern should be keeping the tank cycled, which seems to be going just fine. I'd rather put a new fish into a cycled tank with 20-30ppm nitrates than a tank that will go into a mini-cycle once the bio-load increases.


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## r1dermon

definitely...i overcycle the hell out of my tanks just to be sure that the bioload WONT exceed the consumption of the BB.

there are two ways to remove nitrates. plants, and water changes. that's all you need to concern yourself with regarding nitrates. as long as they're below 40ppm you should be safe. 20ppm ideal. 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 20-40ppm nitrate is a properly cycled tank. i'll guarantee that a rhom is going to put off less ammonia than two rotting pieces of tilapia, and as such, you should be fine when your fish arrives.


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