# Osama Bin Laden Offers Peace to Europe



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

> *'September 11 and March 11 is Your Own Merchandise Coming Back to You' *
> 
> "This is a message to our neighbors north of the Mediterranean, with a proposal for a peace treaty, in response to the positive reactions which emerged there.
> 
> ...


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Osama is a joke, has seen that his reign of terror is failing, and now must change tactics. This 'proposal' is merely an attempt to divide the defenders of freedom and peace against each other. Thank goodness Britain, the European Union, and others immediately came back with a refusal.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Osama is a joke, has seen that his reign of terror is failing, and now must change tactics. This 'proposal' is merely an attempt to divide the defenders of freedom and peace against each other. Thank goodness Britain, the European Union, and others immediately came back with a refusal.


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

I also have to Give the utmost respect to the Italian they murdered. He died Like a man, hopefully showing his pieces of Excrement captors what one was like. Good for him, may he rest In peace.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Osama is a joke, has seen that his reign of terror is failing, and now must change tactics. This 'proposal' is merely an attempt to divide the defenders of freedom and peace against each other. Thank goodness Britain, the European Union, and others immediately came back with a refusal.


Actually he is not a joke. He is responsible for thousands and thousands of deaths. Not f*cking funny. Does that make him wrong?? We are responsible for the same thing. Think about it....

^^Just tired of the hypocrisy^^


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings.


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Xenon said:


> last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings.


No kidding, The Civilians the US killed were a Mistake, You think any Military power can wage a war without some civilians Dying? No. However Osame DILIBERATLY targeted civilians. He knew thats what the twin towers would be filled with. It is You my Friend who need to "f*cking Think"( I read your pre- edited post....)


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Channa freak, when I said that he was a joke, I didn't mean that he was to be ignored because he didn't mean anything. You are right, he did kill thousands, and his ass is gonna rot in hell for it. When I said he was a joke, I was referring to his lousy attempts at gaining political favor and support. Nobody said it was funny. And I have thought about it plenty,



> Xenon: last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings


Exactly. While we strike military targets, these sick fucks intentionally end the lives of innocent civilians. We are by no means responsible for the same thing.

Edit: I typed this before I saw Gary Buseys reply. He is right on the money. Sick f*ck terrorists intentionally kill bistanders to get our attention. We target the military targets, sometimes accidentally harming civilians. There is a HUGE difference there (Which is compounded by the fact that these terrorists often use civilians and neighborhoods as 'shields')


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Xenon said:


> last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings.


 we dont need to highjack planes to run them into building we have the biggest most advanced arsenol in the world.. if they had b52's and escort fighters and 10000 lb daaisy cutters and bunker busters they wouldnt have to highjack jets either..

im not in any way saying what they have done is right but they dont have the rescources we have..


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

What about starting a pre-emptive war based on deception, manipulation, and lies? A war that holds NO legality and based on unproven premises.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

MoeMZA said:


> What about starting a pre-emptive war based on deception, manipulation, and lies? A war that holds NO legality and based on unproven premises.


 This war is to protect us and our interests from these terrorists and rogue states.


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## pamonster (Jun 26, 2003)

I just wish it would all stop.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Xenon said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> > What about starting a pre-emptive war based on deception, manipulation, and lies? A war that holds NO legality and based on unproven premises.
> ...


 Exactly what TERRORIST in IRAQ was a threat?

Also, what were our interests?


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Saddamn Hussein for one thing, haha. People love to say that Iraq doesn't have weapons of mass destruction because we haven't found them. But its funny that he DID have them before he stopped inspections, and there is no record of them being destroyed. The burden of proof was not on us, because its just a plain fact that he had all the stuff before inspections stopped. Before the war, he needed to prove that he DID DESTROY the weapons to prevent invasion. He did not do that, the war is legally justified. Why would he STOP inspections, then SECRETLY destroy his arsenal with no records?

nismo driver, REGARDLESS of weapons/tools for war, while we attack military targets, they attack civilian ones.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

MoeMZA said:


> Xenon said:
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> 
> > MoeMZA said:
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 iraq was a terrorist sponsoring nation, like afghanistan.

Iraq had the potential to leak WMD to terrorist organizations to strike the US.

I think people forget that the UN voted for war if Hussein did not comply with the inspectors....he did not comply... The congress approved this... your representatives did.

Bush is doing all he can in his power to protect us from another 9/11.... I personally applaud him for it.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Peace Treaty with Bin Ladin? yeah right, shure, one dosent negotiate with Terrorists, besides, how can one trust a Terrorist anyway? weve seen by what devious and cowardly means they kill innocent civillians.


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

MoeMZA said:


> Xenon said:
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> > MoeMZA said:
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 Not an individual Terrorist. Terrorist Groups. Saddam Was Blatenly supportive of any Anti-US action and so were his courtymen. Therfore no matter what the US did the terrorists could run and hide in Iraq. Now they cannot. The US's intrests were protecting our way of life from these animals. I bet your tone would change if you knew anyone from 9/11


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Xenon said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> > Xenon said:
> ...


 You did nothing more than THROW AROUND CLAIMS like BUSH.

PROVE IT PLEASE!

And please don't spread lies, UN didn't authorize any war, UN was sidestepped by U.S., remember? It was UNILATERAL. Sadam called every bluff U.S. had, he complied with everything, from the 1200 page report to flyovers to searching palaces. DON'T CHANGE HISTORY.

As far as the claim that BUSH is doing all he can to prevent another 9/11, read this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm

If anything, this war created more of your 'terrorists'. Iraq is a QUAGMIRE my friend. WAKE UP!


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

*"I'm not sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to be&#8230;. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders."*

_George W. Bush, Presidential Debate, Boston, Oct. 3, 2000_


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## ViBE (Jul 22, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Exactly. While we strike military targets, these sick fucks intentionally end the lives of innocent civilians.


 Hmm. Don't go around promoting US like it is some kinda hero. It aint. It got it's sh*t stain.

Targeting Military targets? Try recalling how they dropped endless amount of bombs on Vietnam farm soil. Ain't no military there.

Also, don't try to argue with the facts, cuz its real.

Sorry for derailing from the topic.

BTW: Osama is a lousy person.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan killing over 300,000 INNOCENT civilians.

"Shock and Awe!"


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Xenon said:


> MoeMZA said:
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> 
> > Xenon said:
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 bush has done jack sh*t here in the US where it matters most and where his actions should benifity the people most he has done very little to prevent the future possibilties of attack by attacking iraq..

now by going over there and killing civilians and disrupting the situation he has basically hit the bees nest with a baseball bat, now hundreds maybe thousands of iraqi/arabs that would previously not thought twice about terrorist activity would like nothing more than to cause the same pian to us as our actions have caused to them..

yeah we use our military to "defend" freedom, apparently we are defending our freedom to have our freedom taken from us Patriot act 1 & 2..

look at how the people over there act when given a chance at a positive new begining, they either hide in there homes or form groups to replace the old violent regiem with a new violent regiem, they only understnad force not diplomicy, very much like bush... under sadams rule they werent having roits and these other problems because they knew he would kick there asses if they acted up now they know if they rise up and we respond it makes us look bad because they fight dirty and civilians get killed and they hide in temples so we look like asses for attacking religous sites, and so on and so on...

its going to forever be a never ending cycle of problems in the part of the world.. we will always have to deal with the threat of terrorist.. and wether bush is re elected or not this will be a problem for a long long time, bush has gone to far going to iraq and has really started the sh*t storm spinning out of control... he is deceptive manipulative and recless, and his track record of failure and stupidity will continue unless somehting is done to stop him from making the situation worse...

it is going to take years and years to fix all the problems this moron has caused between the relations with the mideast and europe and the problems we will have here at home with taxes and the deficet , itss one helluva mess to clean up.. like a spoiled brat the plays with all of his toys and leaves the mess for mommy to clean up...


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## Little Waffen (Mar 13, 2004)

Osama SUCKS!!!! He should be draged out into the street and be stoned to death. He doesn't know the meaning of the word PEACE!!!!!!


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

play nice girls........









dont make me close this thread :laugh:


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

MoeMZA said:


> Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan killing over 300,000 INNOCENT civilians.
> 
> "Shock and Awe!"


 seriously we have probably terrorized more people across the world with our military tactics and actions that any "terrorist" group could ever dream of, and we continue to get away with it.. i really hate how our politicians stick there nose in the rest of the worlds business and bull everyone around if we dont like what there doing.. then cry like bitchs when a group of pissed of people (al-quida) gives us some of what we have been dishing out for years.. hiroshima was the mother of all terrorist attacks, the japs only wish they could have caused so much destruction at pearlharbor but we justified because they started it first?


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

http://www.khanreport.com/content/012903.html

Beautifully put.


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## TheSaint (Apr 15, 2004)

What we must all remember and never forget is that we can sit here typing what we like and doing what we like because our governments do things that at the time have been seen as horrific but are ultimately the things which give us our freedom.

Freedom doesnt come for free you have to fight for it and protect it no matter what


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

MoeMZA said:


> Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan killing over 300,000 INNOCENT civilians.
> 
> "Shock and Awe!"


 Yeah, no country or terrorist organization will ever come close to the innocents killed by Americans. But somehow Americans figure out a way to feel okay about us doing it to them. Too hypocritical.


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## a*men (Mar 23, 2004)

Xenon said:


> last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings.


 lol


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

MoeMZA said:


> Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan killing over 300,000 INNOCENT civilians.


 Those nuclear bombs actually saved lives. Would it have been better to starve the Japanese into surrenduring or a beach invasion which would have produced millions of casulties on both sides?

Anyhow, about the Bin Laden tapes; I was concerned that Europe would bow to the pressure. I am glad Osama MoeMZA BinLaden has been met with a unified front that will not cower to acts of terrorism.

DEATH TO THE TERRORISTS!!


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

> MoeMZA: "Sadam called every bluff U.S. had, he complied with everything"


WRONG, This Iraq issue began YEARS ago, not When bush took office. Iraq had wmd, and was ordered to destroy them. UN had inspectors in the country to ensure all weapons were dismantled. Iraq misteriously expelled all inspectors, and refused to allow them back in. He claimed that he destroyed all violating weapons, but recorded no proof of it. He continued to violate UN policy, HOWEVER, the UN continued to change to do anything it could to avoid war, even if this meant BACKING down from Saddam and his refusals. Finally, after US pressure, UN upped the ante. Saddam put on a facade of compliance, HOWEVER, he still did NOT completely comply with everything asked of him. THIS is when the US and Bush stepped in and finally said "You can no longer skirt the issue and exploit the UNs refusual to take action in spite of your non-compliance. We warned you. You didn't listen, and now you will be taken out." I laugh when you guys defend Hussein. Lets not so easily forget that he is on trial for human rights violations. Lets not forget the mass graves.



> MoeMZA "If anything, this war created more of your 'terrorists' "


What the hell do you mean " your 'terrorists' " They are not OUR terrorists, they are flat out terrorists. And there should be no quotations involved in the word 'terrorist' This statement disgusts me. And it further shows your ignorace. UN sanctions against Iraq were exploited by Saddam to increase his riches, while he starved his civilians to death. He then used propaganda to blame their misery on the western world, doing the job of engraining a hatred for the western world in its people and youth, doing a far better job of recruiting terrorists than a war expelling Saddam and instituting a government elected by the people.



> Vibe "Targeting Military targets? Try recalling how they dropped endless amount of bombs on Vietnam farm soil. Ain't no military there. "


Really? Well then where was the military? In military bases? Did they congregate together in defined buildings and locations? I guess I forgot about that. I must have been lied to when I learned that they extensively used guerilla warfare, utilizing tunnels, villages, the woods and even *gasp* farmland to a MILITARY advantage.



> MoeMZA: Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan


Wait so Japan is mad at us right? Japan was in afganistan and Iraq right? SHIIIIT no, I forgot, Japan forgave us and has NOTHING to do with the Islamic terrorists or the war on terror.



> Nismo Driver : look at how the people over there act when given a chance at a positive new begining, they either hide in there homes or form groups to replace the old violent regiem with a new violent regiem, they only understnad force not diplomicy


Funny, you prove an excellent point, albeit unintentionally. These people only know force because their entire lives they have been deproved of freedom and choice. They only know force because they have been forced their entire lives. However, this is NOT a reason to continue their oppression. Thats like saying that they should never be free in the future because they have never been free in the past...



> Nismo driver: its going to forever be a never ending cycle of problems in this part of the world.. we will always have to deal with the threat of terrorist.. and wether bush is re elected or not this will be a problem for a long long time


Again, right on the money. But again, this is no reason to sit back and not do anything. No matter how impossible 'peace in the middle east' sounds (that statement has even become a joke) we cannot sit back and allow the oppression to continue.



> Nismo driver: cry like bitchs when a group of pissed of people (al-quida) gives us some of what we have been dishing out for years


Wow. So that is what our responce to 9 -11 is? We are "crying like bitches" for something we deserved? I think I can safely ignore anything else you have to say on this subject.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> MoeMZA said:
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> 
> > Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan killing over 300,000 INNOCENT civilians.
> ...


 Nuking Japan saved lives!
















Arguing with you is meaningless. You lack any sense of logic or reason.

This coming from the same person who suggested the bright idea of NUKING IRAQ!

And he's calling me BIN LADEN.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Enrigo,

First off, U.S. ordered Inspectors out in 1997 because Clinton was ready to bomb Iraq. (while he was getting his tool shined)

Second, you PURPOSELY took my 'your terrorist' comment out of context. It's in quotation because the U.S. invasion of Iraq is what created these 'terrorists'.

Third, you PURPOSELY, again, took my point out of context regarding U.S. nuking Japan (only country ever to use nukes). It had to deal with how some claim U.S. only targets military positions. Funny to see you attempt to justify it by professing present day U.S./Japan relations.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

For all the times that you tell people they have no logic or reason, I wonder what it is that YOU possess. It certainly isn't knowledge of the past. In 1998 Saddam Hussein halted United Nations inspections. His reason was that he did not like the make-up of the inspections team. However, this was not his decision to make, and the UN repeatedly declared that the make-up of inspections teams is a UN decision. Iraq had no right to pick and chose the inspectors of its wmd. You can try and spin it all you want, but this blatant violation of UN agreement is what triggered further action.

As far the the 'your terrorist' comment goes, how is it taken out of context? You never addressed why you call them "your" terrorists instead of just terrorists. And first of all, what does quotations have to do with your statement that the us invasion created the terrorists? Lastly, you completely ignored the fact that the invasion did NOT create these terrorists, and my explanation of the situation


> Enriqo Suavez: UN sanctions against Iraq were exploited by Saddam to increase his riches, while he starved his civilians to death. He then used propaganda to blame their misery on the western world, doing the job of engraining a hatred for the western world in its people and youth, doing a far better job of recruiting terrorists than a war expelling Saddam and instituting a government elected by the people


As far as your third point, i did not take anything out of context. I was telling you that Japan is a MOOT POINT. As far as the US attacking military positions, its true. Besides the unfortunate bombing of Japan, (which I think was wrong) name another occassion where the US purposely bombed a civilian TARGET?? Don't try and say Vietnam, because this point has been addressed (guerilla warfare, etc) Hell, even if you can name an incident or two, including ACCIDENTS, it would take ALL DAY to list the civilians murdered by Islamic terrorist and Saddam hussein ON PURPOSE.
As far as justifying Japan, I am not doing this at all... I am saying that the bombing of Japan has NOTHING to do with the fact that Islamic terrorists continually target civillians for murder. They are two completely different issues.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

garybusey said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings.
> ...


 So shortsighted and uneducated it scares me...
Read more about US history before making biased judgements like the ones you made here today. I agree with moe... This war is not about protecting US soil. For all of you beleiving that Iraq harbored terrorists camps, you should broaden your knowledge beyond CNN. For all of you beleiving that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; pure speculation, lies to world. Would we give a sh*t if there was not oil under that sand? And one more thing who was it that aided and put Saddam in power. Sure wasnt his islamic friends. We ourselves have supported terrorism that suits our fiscal needs. Anyone recall a terrorist car bomb that exploded in beruit in 1985. The target was Sayed Hassan Nasrallah. It didnt kill him but killed 85 civillians. Years later carl bernstein reveiled that the CIA was behind the bomb after the saudis agreed to fund the operation. Just one incidence of many. We have funded terrorist camps in south america also that commit these same travesties. Mostly for control over imports. Wether you fly a plane into buildings and kill 6000 people or bomb residential areas and kill 6000 people they are both considered terrorism to someone in the world. Because it was the US military dosent make it disregaredable. We may have created our next generation of terrorists. Somebody answer me this question also. Exactly why did terrorists bomb the twin towers? Find the answer.

I take no sides. I think it is all equally wrong. There is a correlation between us military involvement oversees and terrorist bombings worldwide. Something we shoud pay attention to more carefully.

Anyway im done.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

> Channafreak: all of you beleiving that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; pure speculation, lies to world


 Funny that its not speculation... That Iraq DID have wmd, and Saddam DID NOT CONTEST THIS in the 90s. There was no question about whether or not he had them, the question was "Is he dismantling them?" UN inspectors were in Iraq to over see this. The more recent controversy over Iraq was NOT about whether he had them, it was over whether he STILL had them. He has always dragged the UN around, and when he tried it again, the UN said "NO, the burden of proof is on you to show that you destroyed them." Saddam refused, and told the UN that they had to prove he still had them. While the UN was compliant, giving in to this madman and his deception, the US decided that they had enough of his lies. Thus, the war.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

And the answer wasn't because they hate freedom. It's sad that people in the US can't own up to our own screw-ups. People don't sit and plan for years and years to get back at you, and give up their own lives in suicide missions, because they are jealous of you. Ask yourself, would you do that unless you had a really good reason?


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> > Channafreak: all of you beleiving that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; pure speculation, lies to world
> 
> 
> Funny that its not speculation... That Iraq DID have wmd, and Saddam DID NOT CONTEST THIS in the 90s. There was no question about whether or not he had them, the question was "Is he dismantling them?" UN inspectors were in Iraq to over see this. The more recent controversy over Iraq was NOT about whether he had them, it was over whether he STILL had them. He has always dragged the UN around, and when he tried it again, the UN said "NO, the burden of proof is on you to show that you destroyed them." Saddam refused, and told the UN that they had to prove he still had them. While the UN was compliant, giving in to this madman and his deception, the US decided that they had enough of his lies. Thus, the war.


 Who cares about the WMD? We have more than anyone so how can we point the finger. I'm more worried about Bush using them than I was about Saddam! And what did Iraq have to do with 09/11 or Bin Laden again? Answer, nothing. Until we stepped into the picture like idiots.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Denver, you are right. Their leaders with a political agenda feel threatened by the power of the US, and manipulate the people they can into beleiving that they will go to heaven if they murder civilians. THAT is why they give up their own lives in homicide missions. They think they are pleasing their god, something that is WORTH death to them.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Denver, you are right. Their leaders with a political agenda feel threatened by the power of the US, and manipulate the people they can into beleiving that they will go to heaven if they murder civilians. THAT is why they give up their own lives in homicide missions. They think they are pleasing their god, something that is WORTH death to them.


 Well, I'm sure they wouldn't feel so threatened by the power of the US if we stayed out of their business and didn't manipulate them for our own benefit for the last 50 years. Turning people against each other, backing wars, supporting murder and terrorism, only to turn our back and act like we are innocent and noble. There is a lot more to this than just murder for religious beliefs. After 09/11 and the Iraq war, it seems so many Americans are still scared to admit to themselves that we did have a hand in this, that we aren't the innocent victims here. I am a proud American but come on, it's time to face the truth.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

> Denver: Who cares about the WMD?


Wow buddy. While the US retains its wmd as deterrance, terrorists and rogue nations have shown a willingness to use any means necessary to accomplish their goals.

As far as Iraq relating to 9-11 or Bin Ladin... There doesn't NEED to be a link, Al Quada is not the only threat out there. We are on a mission, a War on TERROR, not just a war on Al Quaida


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Really?







Who killed the most people throughout history by use of WMD?


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> > Denver: Who cares about the WMD?
> 
> 
> Wow buddy. While the US retains its wmd as deterrance, terrorists and rogue nations have shown a willingness to use any means necessary to accomplish their goals.
> ...


 Show me proof of an Iraqi that Iraq had anything to do with a terror attack on US interests.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

And how come I didn't answer the rest of the post? Are you retarded? I was replying to your post at 10:24, the only one on my screen, and I DID reply to all of it.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Show me some proof that the US had anything to do with turning people against each other, and supporting murder and terrorism. As far as backing wars goes, of course we have, thats what happens, the enemy of your enemy is your friend.

As far as proof of Iraq attacking US Interests (which includes any free nation), how about the democracy of Kuwait?







And even disregarding this, it was a pre-emptive strike, because Iraq had the motive and the means. You would have been one to go against an invasion of afganistan before 9-11. You've got to see the bigger picture

I'm going to see a movie, I'll be back later


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Show me some proof that the US had anything to do with turning people against each other, and supporting murder and terrorism. As far as backing wars goes, of course we have, thats what happens, the enemy of your enemy is your friend.
> 
> As far as proof of Iraq attacking US Interests (which includes any free nation), how about the democracy of Kuwait?
> 
> ...


 Okay, how about the fact that without the US Iraq would have never had WMD? How about the fact that we supplied Bin Laden and friends with the weapons to fight off the Soviets and left them high and dry after the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan? How about supporting the Iraqi's in the war with Iran? How about supporting Israel with weapons and money in their murders of Palestinians? By the way that's all of our tax money so we are just as guilty. Should I go on?

And what were our interests in Kuwait? Oil, which equates to US dollars. Murder for money, that's it. By the way I did support the invasion of Afghanistan to attack the Taliban. But not Iraq.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> > Denver: Who cares about the WMD?
> 
> 
> Wow buddy. While the US retains its wmd as deterrance, terrorists and rogue nations have shown a willingness to use any means necessary to accomplish their goals.
> ...


 Why are we waging a war on TERROR in Iraq? As far as wmds I was reffering to the present tense. Good catch. I really doubt that you beleive that this is the reason we are waging a war. Its a reason that should lock us into wars with a half dozen nations right now. The reasons given for this war were Iraqs lack of compliance, eliminating the threat of terrorism, and freeing the Iraqi people.

The UN never supported our war. They were the ones doing the inspections and negotiating. We dont have proof that links any terrorist organizations to Iraq at this point, and if we wanted to make the lives of the Iraqi people better we should of lifted the sanctions imposed on them by the US in the early ninetys. Thats killed more women and children than saddam could do in his lifetime. I beleive this war is based on much more than the reasons given to the world. Most of the world agrees too.

I guess we will just agree to disagree.

Are you affiliated with the military at all Enriquo?


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i watched bushes speech the other day and im convienced that were doin the right

thing.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

Denver said:


> Okay, how about the fact that without the US Iraq would have never had WMD? How about the fact that we supplied Bin Laden and friends with the weapons to fight off the Soviets and left them high and dry after the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan? How about supporting the Iraqi's in the war with Iran? How about supporting Israel with weapons and money in their murders of Palestinians? By the way that's all of our tax money so we are just as guilty. Should I go on?





> How about the fact that we supplied Bin Laden and friends with the weapons to fight off the Soviets and left them high and dry after the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan?


 okay, lets get real here.
We would be fighting off more terrorists if we tried to occupy Afganistan following the withdrawal of the Russians. Remember, Osama turned on the U.S. during the Gulf War when we were trying to save HIS country from being invaded by the Iraqis.

We're dealing with an uncivilized, blood-lusting war culture that has already determined they're at war; they're just looking for an enemy to fight with.
It's best to handle these things like we do in Africa and just let them fight among themselves.



> How about supporting Israel with weapons and money in their murders of Palestinians?


America supports Israel because they know if they withdrew support, they would witness the Holocaust Part II. The Palestinians are a chronic headache that America would like to work out, but Arafat and others have blocked every effort made at settling the conflict.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

A lot of replys from US citizens. Anyone else from the world have an opinion on this topic.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

Bullsnake said:


> okay, lets get real here.
> We would be fighting off more terrorists if we tried to occupy Afganistan following the withdrawal of the Russians. Remember, Osama turned on the U.S. during the Gulf War when we were trying to save HIS country from being invaded by the Iraqis.
> 
> We're dealing with an uncivilized, blood-lusting war culture that has already determined they're at war; they're just looking for an enemy to fight with.
> ...


 How do we know that they would have turned on us if we came in to help fix their war torn country? After they were fighting our cold war battles for us? That is pure speculation. As is the idea that Iraq would have attempted to invade Saudi Arabia.
Uncivilized? That right there is why Americans seem to feel it's okay to do as we wish in the middle east, the we are better than them syndrome. Why is an American life more sacred or civilized than any other???
As far as just looking for war, the same could be said of the US when looking at Iraq, among others.
I agree with you on one thing (Africa), we should get out of there and let them decide what governments they want and how to handle things with their neighbors.

Bin Laden's message...I thought it was very well written. I don't know how people can brush it off so easily. People say we can't negotiate with a terrorist. Well, what makes someone a terrorist? More people have been killed by Bush's orders than by Bin Laden's, but I dont see anyone saying Bush is a terrorist.


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## mechanic_joe (Dec 4, 2003)

> A lot of replys from US citizens. Anyone else from the world have an opinion on this topic.


 Uhmmm... nope.

Canada is so damn undecided about every U.S. action in the last five years, that we have been brainwashed into not even having an opinion.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

Well there is one problem. Osama still has to be accountable for his crimes against humanity. That is why there will be no negotiation. We can take steps in the right direction with occupation of islamic states over the course of the next decade but certanly not immediately through negotiations with a terrorist leader still to be held accountable. Punsishment still needs to be met without furthering the criminal activity for the future. Diplomacy will be an option when everyone wants to end conflict. I will say that diplomacy has not been a strong influence over most islamic states. But your right too. We need to also take into view our own accountability and find an appropriate change to maintain stability.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

mechanic_joe said:


> > A lot of replys from US citizens. Anyone else from the world have an opinion on this topic.
> 
> 
> Uhmmm... nope.
> ...


 Hehe......Just humor us then.


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## ViBE (Jul 22, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> > Vibe "Targeting Military targets? Try recalling how they dropped endless amount of bombs on Vietnam farm soil. Ain't no military there. "
> 
> 
> Really? Well then where was the military? In military bases? Did they congregate together in defined buildings and locations? I guess I forgot about that. I must have been lied to when I learned that they extensively used guerilla warfare, utilizing tunnels, villages, the woods and even *gasp* farmland to a MILITARY advantage.


You dumb fuckshit.

Don't tell me about my country.
My farm was to the south, TO THE SOUTH, You hear me? SOUTH, the vietcong didn't even reach and the US started bombing from the south to north. Yeah. You Americans are smart alright.

And you dipshit, why did you even fight a war that wasn't yours? Didn't solve sh*t, if you did, there wouldn't be communism in my country.


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## ViBE (Jul 22, 2003)

By the way.

Enriqo_Suavez, YOu should shut the f*ck up you lil kid. Stop trying to impress us with your two bit brain.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Arguing with ENRIGO and BULLSNAKE is POINTLESS!

BULLSNAKE believes the NUKE ATTACK on Japan SAVED LIVES,
and
Enrigo thinks Kuwait is a DEMOCRACY, he also thinks SADAM had nukes!(technically, Nukes are the only type of WMD, bio&chem weapons are not even of choice when mass destruction is the goal)


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

> ViBe: Enriqo_Suavez, YOu should shut the f*ck up you lil kid. Stop trying to impress us with your two bit brain.


Irony at its best. I think this speaks for itself.

As far as MoeMZA goes... How is is pointless to argue with me? Both things that you just said about me are ridiculous. I called Kuwait democratic because it is a constitutional monarchy, with an ELECTED parliament. Its about as democratic as countries come in that region. And as far as Iraqs wmd... You can't make up your own damn definition of wmd in order to say I am wrong!! Iraq had many weapons that it was forbidden to have. Period. End of story. Regardless of subsequent UN / US action, it is universally accepted Iraq had these weapons before 1998.


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

Xenon said:


> last time I checked we werent sending CIA operatives to hijack planes and run them into buildings.


 If we didn't have a huge military may we would huh?


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

Xenon said:


> MoeMZA said:
> 
> 
> > What about starting a pre-emptive war based on deception, manipulation, and lies? A war that holds NO legality and based on unproven premises.
> ...


 Wake up!


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Saddamn Hussein for one thing, haha. People love to say that Iraq doesn't have weapons of mass destruction because we haven't found them. But its funny that he DID have them before he stopped inspections, and there is no record of them being destroyed. The burden of proof was not on us, because its just a plain fact that he had all the stuff before inspections stopped. Before the war, he needed to prove that he DID DESTROY the weapons to prevent invasion. He did not do that, the war is legally justified. Why would he STOP inspections, then SECRETLY destroy his arsenal with no records?
> 
> nismo driver, REGARDLESS of weapons/tools for war, while we attack military targets, they attack civilian ones.


 Isn't it kinda funny that he had the same weapons, wait ...we gave them to him, when he was our buddy and we did not care who he killed with them! You are asleep. Wake up and stop being brainwashed.


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

nismo driver said:


> Xenon said:
> 
> 
> > MoeMZA said:
> ...


 Thank God there are some Americans that are still awake and thinking. The people of Iraq don't deserve to go through Hell because they have a moron for a leader. That is their problem to deal with. They did not ask for help. If the short sighted moron Bush would work to unlease us from the shackles of fossil fuels maybe we would have no need to go hunting down the black gold. While we are wasting time in Iraq we will be hit again by those bastard terrorists who should have been crippled by now if we had focused our forces on them.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

You really need to work on the 4 post in a row thing. You can make one long post, ya know.


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## andymel (Oct 27, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> You really need to work on the 4 post in a row thing. You can make one long post, ya know.


 Thanks I just realized that. Will do in the future.
I hope you would make as much sense when you argue about the war.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> > How about supporting Israel with weapons and money in their murders of Palestinians?
> 
> 
> America supports Israel because they know if they withdrew support, they would witness the Holocaust Part II. The Palestinians are a chronic headache that America would like to work out, but Arafat and others have blocked every effort made at settling the conflict.










sounds like you only have heard the US side of it, propagande no doubt, but according to Arafat the Israeli's have ruined all His efforts for peace.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Let's also not forget, that the only Isreali P.M. to ever make peace with Palestinians/Arafat was ASSASSINATED by another Zionist!


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## LEON (Dec 5, 2003)

After reading all your posts, I'm going to throw my two cents in. (The duality of man is that he is both capable of great good as well as great evil). Our goverment has made its mistakes (treatment of the American Indians), but it also has done great good. All goverments have made mistakes - thats the nature of man.

First of all, in regards to the use of the atomic bomb in Japan...

Japanese aggression against its neighbors began in the 30's long before the attack on Pearl Harbor in order to expand its influence and seize natural resources that they lacked. Just ask the Chinese. The Japanese visited such devastating atrocities on the Chinese (biological/chemical experimentation on live humans, etc.) that it approached genocide. Ever hear of the rape of Nan-King? They began the use of biological weapons against the Chinese by use of the plague (ceramic shells laced with plague carrying fleas into Chinese cities). Then they would study the results and dissect survivors. Attempts were made against the US by use of high altitude balloons with little effect, mostly into the NW coastal areas. The Japanese attacked the US fleet because they wanted to prevent our interference in their attempts to seize power throughout Asia (Imagine what would have happened if politics had entered into the attack on Pearl Harbor like it has on the attack on the Twin Towers). The Japanese military operated on the philosophy of total war (ends justify the means), and if they had possessed the bomb, they would have used it widely without hesitation.

The use of the bomb was unfortunate; however, necessary given the cost of American lives to invade Japan and force a surrender. After the first one was dropped, the Japanese were given the opportunity for surrender, but refused. 
Look at Japan now -- one of the most prosperous countries in the world, thanks to the rebuilding efforts of the American government post-war. Finally, when horrible weapons are developed, they are generally used until the devastating effects are witnessed (use of gas warfare in WWI) first hand. America had the nuclear monopoly for a long time, but choose not to use it again.

In regards to Iraq, Saddam would have tortured people for any dissent against his regime (this discussion for example). He harbored terrorist leaders (Abu Nidal and others) that struck American civilians and interests. He paid monies to families of homicide bombers that killed civilians. He drained the resources of his country for his own gain and dramatically lowered the life style of his people. Used chemical weapons against the Kurds as well as the Iranians. I could go on and on.

Our goverment is funneling tons of money into Iraq (no war for oil nonsense). Soon we will turn the reins over to the Iraqis. Hopefully, they will be able to form a representative goverment that will represent all Iraqis. We'll see if they can shake a generation of dictatorship.

In regards to Bin Laden, he is waging a holy war. He is only now using the Palestinian cause to bolster his claims with other muslims. He is intent on destroying the west and any infidels that do not agree with his brand of Islam. His strikes against the west have been limited by his resources. He will use any means available (WMDs) to acheive his goals regardless of the cost in lives.

I strongly support the President in his actions. Nobody wanted these events to transpire other than Bin Laden, but he doubted our resolve. Bush is risking his political future (knowingly) because he is doing what must be done. Anything less would jeopardize our society.

These are my thoughts.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Bravo LEON, truthful and well put.


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

saddam hussein was funding bin laden for the 9-11 attacks against the U.S. They found a large mural of all the 9-11 attacks inside of one of saddam's palaces, and it was painted about 9 months b4 the attacks actually occured. i fully support everything that bush, tony blair, and the rest of the world fighting against terrorism are doing. just think of what the world would be like without us fighting back. the terrorists would of considered us weak and attacked many more cities, maybe even nuking the whole country. I stand behind the freedom-fighters of the world and when i turn 18 i am enlisting into the armed forces to help.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

MoeMZA said:


> Or how in WWII, U.S. dropped Nuclear Bombs in Japan killing over 300,000 INNOCENT civilians.
> 
> "Shock and Awe!"


 You are fully aware that the reason we dropped fat Boy and Little Boy right? We dropped them to stop a war, in turn, sparring a million (and some change) more lives. If we hadn't dropped the 'boys', who knows how much longer WW2 would've gone on and who knows how many more lives would be lost that war.


> The use of the bomb was unfortunate; however, necessary given the cost of American lives to invade Japan and force a surrender. After the first one was dropped, the Japanese were given the opportunity for surrender, but refused.


he just further backed up my arguement, or i backed his arguement more :laugh:


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

MoeMZA said:


> Nuking Japan saved lives!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it did! We sacrificed, in order to make a better outcome!

Hey, one last thing:

NUKE MOEMZA!!!!.....the only way to protect our younger generation from his constant bickerings!


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## TormenT (Apr 1, 2004)

MoeMZA said:


> What about starting a pre-emptive war based on deception, manipulation, and lies? A war that holds NO legality and based on unproven premises.


 we are trying to get rid of an enemy.... we are not playing splintercell


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