# Two of my Reds died...



## deeboi (Mar 7, 2003)

I haven't posted here in a while. It sucks that I have this bad news...those are the two that died. They croaked last night and were floating this morning.




























Those are the ones that are left. I tried the usual salt treatment for a while but as you can see that failed so I took off to the LFS and picked up an antibiotic called "NEOMYCIN." Hopefully it'll clear up and I can save the rest.

Anyone see from the pictures what this could be? The antibiotic is supposed clear up Bacterial Infections which is what it seems to be, some sort of secondary infection from fighting.


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## deeboi (Mar 7, 2003)

A couple more pics


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## accr (Nov 27, 2002)

I'm sorry.

I *think* your fish might have TB. Read my thread here.

questions: 1) Is their spine crooked at all? 2) Are they Eating? 3) Bloated?

kanamycin is supose to work quiet well for TB but ya need a damn prescription.

btw, keep ya hands outta the tank. TB can transfer to human if you have cuts on your hand.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

WOW! They look really bad... How often do you do water changes? Neomycin is a pretty good antibiotic for gram negative bacterial infections. Keep in mind that the good nitrifiers are also gram negative bacteria. So your filter will be killed by the treatment. I would keep up with the recommended dosage but I would do a good water change (about 30%) before readminstering the antibiotic on the following day.

Good luck and be prepared to re-cycle your tank after this ordeal.


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

I would also strongly suggest you do a complete water change and recycling. Bacteria from which killed your Ps will linger in the tank and would only kill the next batch you put in your tank regardless if all your wter perimeters are good.


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## deeboi (Mar 7, 2003)

Yeah they do look really bad. Still even this morning when I woke up they seem to have cotton like patches on their body. I was doing consistent water changes maybe every other day just before the two Reds died, and before that water changes every week, week and a half of 30-35%.

If all the bacteria that lives in the filter will be killed by this med treatment the Neomycin, won't it kill the bacteria that killed the first two Reds?


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## LaZy (Jun 17, 2003)

those look BAD man its gotta be somthing with your tank


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

deeboi said:


> If all the bacteria that lives in the filter will be killed by this med treatment the Neomycin, won't it kill the bacteria that killed the first two Reds?


 Yes, what I was trying to say is, even though the antibiotics will kill the bad bacteria, it will also kill the good bacteria because they are both the same "type" (gram negative). Basically a warning to keep on top of your water parameters after the treatment...

If you see cottony growth, it _could_ be a true fungal infection, Saprolegnia. It could also be columnaris which is a bacterial infection that resembles fungus. There is an anti-fungal med called Furanace (nifurpirinol) that can be used in conjunction with Neomycin. This will give a broad spectrum attack if you don't know whether the disease is bacterial or fungal in nature. I usually don't recommend mixing meds, but in your case, a "shotgun" approach is worth looking into. I don't think they will survive for long if a cure is not found soon. Sorry.







Double check with a knowledgeable fish store owner about this combination.

Also, is there any way you can get potassium permanganate? You can do a short term dip to provide short term relief until the med takes effect. Let me know...


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## deeboi (Mar 7, 2003)

Actually I went to a Fish Store with the bodies of the Reds in Zip Locks and the Neomycin is what they recommended. But the cotton like patches I just noticed this morning when I woke up so it happened after LFS trip. I might go again there or another place and see about the Furanace.

Also on the Neomycin box it says: For advanced cases combine NEOMYCIN with SUPER SULFA or TETRACYCLINE using both as directed but each at 1/2 strength. Would either of those be anti-fungal meds?

Where would I find this potassium permanganate? Actually can you explain a little more about it?


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

deeboi said:


> Also on the Neomycin box it says: For advanced cases combine NEOMYCIN with SUPER SULFA or TETRACYCLINE using both as directed but each at 1/2 strength. Would either of those be anti-fungal meds?
> 
> Where would I find this potassium permanganate? Actually can you explain a little more about it?


 Both Super Sulfa and Tetracycline are Gram+/Gram- antibiotics. So basically, they are both broad-spectrum antibiotics for use in bacterial infections. This should boost the effectiveness of Neomycin but I am not sure if the combination would be effective against fungal infections though. Furanace is a med used specifically to treat fungal infections.

Potassium permanganate is pretty difficult to get but is very effective against unknown ailments. It is a VERY powerful oxidizer that, when used correctly, can kill most types of parasites, bacteria and fungus. When I had fish come in that looked REALLY bad, I would put them in a bath of potassium permanganate and this would oxidize any pathogens that are on the body. This relieves them of the immediate threat and then I return them to a clean tank to recuperate. This stuff is very stressful on fish, but when applied correctly, is a very useful tool.


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## mantis (May 16, 2003)

sorry to hear that









good luck


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## deeboi (Mar 7, 2003)

UPDATE:

Yesterday I went to another LFS and picked some media for my Eheim 2028 and some more meds. So last nite I did a maintenance job on the Eheim. When I woke up this morning the P's condition seemed to have improved quite a bit. The cottony patches on the two smaller Caribe have pretty much gone away and on the largest of the three, there is only a small feint patch on it's left side underneath the dorsal fin, plus it doesn't look quite like the pictures no more, it's not dark in color and doesn't have the white coloration.

They all still have a white eye, and the largest has two. The med that I went with was the Super Sulfa just because it's the same brand that I started with, the Neomycin, and the box claims to take care of the following symptoms and causes such as Cottony Patches, Fungal Infections, Fin And Tail Rot, White Body And Fin Blotches, Columnaris, etc.

I'm just gotta wait it out and am glad that the P's are still even alive cuz when I left on Sunday to get the meds the big Caribe was floating upside down. Thanks for your help and concerns guys especially for your quick replies DonH.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

wow i hope everything turs out ok.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

please post these pics in the sick fish pics thread pinned i this forum - sorry about your fish


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## NIKE (Jan 27, 2003)

good luck dude we are feelin your pain


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