# 10 gallon starter tank



## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

Here is my 10 gallon running with a ac30 filter that has been made into a refuge and is ful of live rock.

I have a black and orange ocellaris clown pair (haven't bred) 6 Turbo snails, 5-8 hermit crabs.

I don't know all of the kinds of coral but the ones i do know are

Candy cane
Frog spawn
mushrooms (4-5 different kinds) not sure on names
polyps (3-4 kinds) not sure on names
blue xenia (my christmas present to myself)

Having problems uploading pics........ i think they may be too big to post.....


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)




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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

you got a decent looking lil nano there!!! 
loving the shrooms and your frogspawn. i love frospawn. get yourself a brain coral frag too for some variation. 
the very first pic. is that the candy cane?


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2010)

Completely new to Saltwater so just wondering the following:

Why no heater?

What temperature are Salties kept at?


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

Ya trigger thats the candy cane. Brain coral is sweet but is better under halides i heard, same with clams......... I would love both but they also get big and im not ready to upgrade just yet.

KSLS there is a heater that i have hidden laying down behind the rocks hehehe sneeky







I keep my tank at about 79-81, the light on the tank may bring it up another degree or so when i have both bulbs turned on.

thanks for the comments guys..... you made it worth all the trouble i went through to upload all my pics onto photobucket in order for them to work on p-fury.


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

One of those looks like a black clown.. Maybe that's why they haven't bred?

Nice tank none the less wish I could run a sw tank


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

they are the same species just a different morph, it is possible to breed the pair, i just havent had them long enough to pair up i guess you could say. i have only had them for about a month

thanks for the compliments


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Trigga said:


> One of those looks like a black clown.. Maybe that's why they haven't bred?
> 
> Nice tank none the less wish I could run a sw tank


Clownfish species can breed even if one is a different color... the important thing is they are the same species

By mixing different colors (black, naked, misbar) they have created "rare" (also some extremely ugly) clownfish like Picasso, Snowcasso, Platnum, and others... which are several hundred dollars EACH

If you google it, you can see some pictures.

DAN, great looking tank man... are you running skimmers on either of your tanks? Have you thought of plumbing them into one large system to make things more stable, and testing/dosing easier?


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

I never test my tanks and i have a skimmer on the 50 gallon and nothing on the 10 gallon.

thanks for the compliments Bryce


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

piranha_guy_dan said:


> I never test my tanks and i have a skimmer on the 50 gallon and nothing on the 10 gallon.
> 
> thanks for the compliments Bryce


You never test your tanks? wow... that seems risky

I would hate to see something bad happen (like PH or alk crash) when its easily avoided by simple testing and some 2 part dosing (if water changes arent enough, which as demand increases will happen) I see its mostly softies now, so it wont be a problem... but if you add more stony corals its something you should take up atleast bi-weekly. I even test my water change bin before adding it (calcium, alk, ph) i have read some horrible stories about the CA and ALK of salt mix being so far off, that peoples tanks cant handle it and they get nuked from a "bad batch" of salt (or even salt thats not mixed, or has settled)

Calcium, Alk, PH and several other things are "linked" together, so if one level drops it will be impossible to maintain the others correctly. After i found the online dosing calculator for 2 part, and others (magnesium etc), i found its much easier to test my tank and dose as necessary... dont know if you have seen it but i will PM a link when i find it.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer (Aug 22, 2006)

Sweet tank P guy dan. I had one too but got sick of topping up every 2 days, if I didn't the salinity would swing up a lot. Now that I sold my 10 gallon, I have a 75 gallon freshwater and there isnt a day where I dont think about how amazing the 75 gallon would look as a reef







.

Whats your schedule like for topping up the evap?


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

You dont test ever?!?!? and you have no filtration of anysort running on your 10g???

How do you manage that?


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Trigger lover said:


> You dont test ever?!?!? and you have no filtration of anysort running on your 10g???
> *
> How do you manage that*?


A powerhead, live rock, weekly water changes would be my guess... even bi-weekly would work


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## piranha_guy_dan (Oct 4, 2004)

I have a powerhead, i also have live rock in my ac filter instead of media so it is like my own mini hang on refugium. I have glass lids on my 10 gallon and 50 gallon so I don't have to top up that often anymore but I do still add 2 litres to the 10 gallon every 4 days or so.

I also have an aqua c remore skimmer and a ac500 home made refugium on my 50 gallon along with a powerhead. I plan on eventually expanding to one big reef tank and at that time I will build it properly from the ground up.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

this was my question i posted up in the SW section egir and we had a whole discussian and we came to the conclusion that getting a skimmer would overall be best. looks like it can be done without one. may have to try and implement this on a new setup. maybe a 50g tank see if i can make it work


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Trigger lover said:


> this was my question i posted up in the SW section egir and we had a whole discussian and we came to the conclusion that getting a skimmer would overall be best. *looks like it can be done without one.* may have to try and implement this on a new setup. maybe a 50g tank see if i can make it work


Oh no doubt it can be done.... but like i said after seeing what my skimmer has pulled out i wouldnt go back. If it can make me puke, and is pulling a gallon every 5 days or so... why would i want to leave that in my water column?

Keep in mind we are talking about a 300 gal system, and a 10 or 50 gal system here... its more expensive for me (salt) to compensate with large water changes, where as on a smaller tank it would be more simple and realistic. A 200 gal box of salt mix lasts me about 2 months (20 per week) and would last him far longer, even with 40 or 50% water changes.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Ægir said:


> this was my question i posted up in the SW section egir and we had a whole discussian and we came to the conclusion that getting a skimmer would overall be best. *looks like it can be done without one.* may have to try and implement this on a new setup. maybe a 50g tank see if i can make it work


Oh no doubt it can be done.... but like i said after seeing what my skimmer has pulled out i wouldnt go back. If it can make me puke, and is pulling a gallon every 5 days or so... why would i want to leave that in my water column?

Keep in mind we are talking about a 300 gal system, and a 10 or 50 gal system here... its more expensive for me (salt) to compensate with large water changes, where as on a smaller tank it would be more simple and realistic. A 200 gal box of salt mix lasts me about 2 months (20 per week) and would last him far longer, even with 40 or 50% water changes.
[/quote]
i found recently that skimmers arn't really needed on small tanks (unless you want water sensitive corals) , but a hob with some mech would be great. I just use a turkey baster to blow up debris then the overflow (i keep media in my overflow in the back to silence sound and remove debris. I also clean it regularly so it doesn't clog as that would be a disaster and filter floss covers only half so if it gets clogged it can go through the coarse ac 110 pad then to the sump. There are also some gaps at the back so water can go can go just in case) will take it out and i replace the mech media daily (ac 110 pad (half) and filter floss). I replace it with another set then clean it so i don't throw it out. If i were you i would just add a hob so you can remove some detritus before it causes problems. so your water will be much nicer.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

sean-820 said:


> this was my question i posted up in the SW section egir and we had a whole discussian and we came to the conclusion that getting a skimmer would overall be best. *looks like it can be done without one.* may have to try and implement this on a new setup. maybe a 50g tank see if i can make it work


Oh no doubt it can be done.... but like i said after seeing what my skimmer has pulled out i wouldnt go back. If it can make me puke, and is pulling a gallon every 5 days or so... why would i want to leave that in my water column?

Keep in mind we are talking about a 300 gal system, and a 10 or 50 gal system here... its more expensive for me (salt) to compensate with large water changes, where as on a smaller tank it would be more simple and realistic. A 200 gal box of salt mix lasts me about 2 months (20 per week) and would last him far longer, even with 40 or 50% water changes.
[/quote]
i found recently that skimmers arn't really needed on small tanks (unless you want water sensitive corals) , but a hob with some mech would be great. I just use a turkey baster to blow up debris then the overflow (i keep media in my overflow in the back to silence sound and remove debris. I also clean it regularly so it doesn't clog as that would be a disaster and filter floss covers only half so if it gets clogged it can go through the coarse ac 110 pad then to the sump. There are also some gaps at the back so water can go can go just in case) will take it out and i replace the mech media daily (ac 110 pad (half) and filter floss). I replace it with another set then clean it so i don't throw it out. If i were you i would just add a hob so you can remove some detritus before it causes problems. so your water will be much nicer.
[/quote]

The rule of saltwater is EXPORT, not TRAP debris... You could change your filter floss, or sponge or whatever every day, and have this PITA routine that you are obligated to. Or you could just allow a skimmer to remove the organic compounds and keep waste suspended until it can be removed.

I took EVERY (even the smallest) piece of sponge, filter pad, floss, etc OUT of my system and have seen amazing improvements. I am the type of person that has to try everything myself, and see how it plays out.... I have used filter socks off and on, had a sponge in my sump between baffles, filter pad on the top of the overflow etc... Some of you may even remember the TAS (turf algae scrubber) i built, after reading for weeks about what its "supposed to do" and liking the concept, i built one using spare parts. After letting it run for some time, i quickly discovered the downside (not enough screen, or lighting... not using a turf algae pad to seed the filter) and packed it up. After trying ALL these different things, no pads or floss, skimming heavy and focusing on EXPORT not trapping, my tank is doing the best it ever has... My water has never been so clear

Also understand that each system is unique... things might work great for me, but not so much for other people (and the other way around) so thats why i am a firm believer in trying every option and observing the results... you will quickly see which is superior

I would also like to add that if there was more LPS or SPS, not mostly zoas, mushrooms and softies that skimming, water changes, and possibly dosing become almost mandatory. Really right now there is little calcium uptake, and need for skimming because most softies enjoy "dirty water" (in comparison to SPS)


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Ægir said:


> The rule of saltwater is EXPORT, not TRAP debris... You could change your filter floss, or sponge or whatever every day, and have this PITA routine that you are obligated to. Or you could just allow a skimmer to remove the organic compounds and keep waste suspended until it can be removed.


Changing mech media daily does work fine for me, however like you said it could become a pita, but its cheaper then spending 200$ on a skimmer. Its like using filter socks, having one will probably be more of a pita then if you buy 7. If you have multiple you just replace then you can clean multiple at a time rather then having to clean the one right away to replace it. Either way by replacing the mech with clean stuff you initially trap then the debris is exported out of the system. For a large tank a skimmer is a must, but with smaller tank water changes will do. Mech media doesn't create any debris, it just traps it so if its not trapping it (and your only method of exporting waste is water changes and lr) the detritus is just rotting somewhere else so imo its better to catch it for easy removal rather then letting it break down during the week between water changes.

Also, is there actual proof that softies enjoy "dirty" water or is it that they are just more tolerant to it?


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

this is all interesting info. im liking it. its just that ive always been a fan of trying to run a self sufficient tank with minimal use of skimmer or filter. but it does to prove a difficult task especially in the long term for larger tanks
i am aware that everyone has had different experiences. and what something works for one person may not work aswell for another.
another option is of course coming up with a well desgined sump but oddly enough i would choose a skimmer over sump. 
what works well for small tanks doesnt usally wok so well with larger tanks.

more thought needs to be put into this.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2010)

PGD! where have you been?


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## Guest (May 12, 2010)

His Majesty said:


> this is all interesting info. im liking it. its just that ive always been a fan of trying to run a self sufficient tank with minimal use of skimmer or filter. but it does to prove a difficult task especially in the long term for larger tanks
> i am aware that everyone has had different experiences. and what something works for one person may not work aswell for another.
> another option is of course coming up with a well desgined sump but oddly enough i would choose a skimmer over sump.
> what works well for small tanks doesnt usally wok so well with larger tanks.
> ...


By the way Majesty,

if you want to have something simple, with minimal effort needed to run, just got softies with few fish. Mine actually did much better before I added skimmer. Stay away from SPS though.

And there is no such thing as a self sustaining tank since in essence, your tank is isolated from the natural pressures of an ecosystem. So forget that dream! (Unless you have a ton of cash for some kind of automatic system only possible for large public aquariums)


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Great pictures and I really like your tank. 
I'm in the process of setting up my own 20gal and I hope it looks that good once established.

Is live rock rubble all you habe in your filter? I was thinking of converting my ac70 to a refuge and running a skimmer. But if the rock works well which it seems to be for you than maybe I'll run it that way.

Any tips or suggestions for a me as a noob?


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## Spilo26 (Apr 27, 2005)

I've heard live rock rubble can trap debris and actually raise nitrates after time. I just used chaeto in my HOB refugium. From my understanding when they say soft corals like dirty water, they are referring to food and nutrient rich water, not high nitrate water. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in lol.


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## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Spilo26 said:


> I've heard live *rock rubble can trap debris and actually raise nitrates after time.* I just used chaeto in my HOB refugium. From my understanding when they say soft corals like dirty water, they are referring to food and nutrient rich water, not high nitrate water. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in lol.


ALL rock can trap debris and eventually become clogged up... after a few years you would be surprised what you can shake out of it.


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## frantzml1982 (Jan 12, 2005)

Are you sure that's true blue xenia? Looks like an Anthelia or a clove.


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