# Elongatus Co-hab



## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## Pit_man

i would LOVE to see them together!!!


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## Fishnut2

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## Trigga

sounds like you know what your doing! Good luck with this and lets see some pics.


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## db04ph

i am confused did u remove the dividers?


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## Trigga

db04ph said:


> i am confused did u remove the dividers?


pretty sure he did since they are circling


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## Fishnut2

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## Trigga

i wouldnt sex em based on the slope of their head because that has nothing to do with the sex of a fish (in piranha anyway). There is no way visually that you can 100% sex elongs or pygos just by looking at them.

I dont think they would be showing breeding behaviour within an hour of being introduced to the tank either just my opinion.

Still i wish you the best of luck and hope you do it and get pics of the whole process.


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## BOSSRHOM

post a vid up!


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## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## BOSSRHOM

Fishnut2 said:


> Unfortunately; setting up the video camera, tripod, and trying to get rid of the reflexions, have disturbed them temporarily. I do have some good video of the shoal. They just stopped all activity. I'll check in on them later.


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## Fishnut2

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## Trigga

Fishnut2 said:


> I forgot to mention. They were just introduced to this tank, but not to each other. They were in a 4 partition 125, where they could all interact. This is an old cichlid breeding trick. With cichlids you'd seperate M/F with a pane of glass...until you visibly see thier tubes drop. Then you pull the pane of glass, and you usually have eggs within 24 hours.
> 
> This was a revised version of that idea. The Elongs have been together for 3 weeks now.


never knew that... i retract my earlier comment


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## blbig50

Fishnut, of course people are going to be skeptical, but damn I wish you the very best of luck and I have faith in you man. I think you can do it. Best of luck, and thanks for sharing photos because I know it can be a hassle for you.


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## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## Pit_man

Fishnut2 said:


> The agression has ended (for now at least) The fish are in 2 M/F pairs, perpendicular to each pair (90 degrees). I have a new tape, fresh battery, and a new plan. Since the agression let up, I'm going to risk a temperature increase. Rather then disturb the fish by turning up the temp on the heater that's in there...I'm adding another heater from the opposite side of the tank. I'll also be checking water parameters. The irredescent markings on the back that I mentioned before, disappeared when I setup the video equiptment. I'll be watching for that, as well as any other pre-spawn activity. The circling over the pit and tail slapping looked SO promising before. I hope I don't have to wait a few weeks to try this again. If I do, I'll wait for a drop in barometric pressure, as this has triggered other fish to spawn for me.


Couldnt you just put 1 partition in the tank they are in now and keep them in 2 pairs sence they seem to be pairing off anyway? that way at least you could keep the males from fighting?


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## Fishnut2

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## Fishnut2

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## Pit_man

Fishnut2 said:


> Pit...I considered 1 partition for pairs, but I don't want to risk them being together...without supervision. They are too hard to come by. Since all these fish were from the same import...I'm guessing they are about the same age. They could possibly be from the same spawn, but that's impossible to know without a DNA test. I would assume all the elongs spawn about the same time in the wild. So they probably aren't related. But replacing one that size could be difficult.


I hear ya. I was just saying that cause you said the only aggression was between the two males. I figured if you put them in paires you would have twice the chance of a spawn.


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## Fishnut2

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## blbig50

I see what you are pointing out. I just hope it's a valid way of sexing.


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## Pat

I'll be following to see how this goes for you.







I've co-habbed them before. It worked fine for me.

Just a suggestion...
As you pointed out yourself, this sort of stuff often does meet with some form of skepticism. I'm all for pushing the boundaries but I'm also prepared to defend my efforts in a productive way. If you want to come across as credible, telling the readers that you can sex by 'head shape' and then supporting it with an expression along the lines of "well I just can" will only fan the flames.

So fill me in, how do you know _*for sure*_ that head shape is a sure way to determine the sex of an elong?


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## CLUSTER ONE

Fishnut2 said:


> I'll be following to see how this goes for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've co-habbed them before. It worked fine for me.
> 
> Just a suggestion...
> As you pointed out yourself, this sort of stuff often does meet with some form of skepticism. I'm all for pushing the boundaries but I'm also prepared to defend my efforts in a productive way. If you want to come across as credible, telling the readers that you can sex by 'head shape' and then supporting it with an expression along the lines of "well I just can" will only fan the flames.
> 
> So fill me in, how do you know _*for sure*_ that head shape is a sure way to determine the sex of an elong?


I agree with the sexing thing Pat said. If you had fish die then you cut them open, and saw you were right mayby there was some truth, but your basing it on nothing as how would you even know a sloped head would be female as opposed to male?

That all being said with 4 fish, you do however have a pretty good chance of a male/female pair so all thebest in your efforts.


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## Fishnut2

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## RedneckR0nin

Your doing wicked Fishnut and don't listen to anyone say you can't do this cause I feel you can do exactly what you are setting out to do. Patience brother and you will get to the finish as I believe man. Watching your thread very carefully and wish you nothing but continued success as it is always impossible until the second it isn't anymore.


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## Fishnut2

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## blbig50

I love this thread so far....

So the alpha male may be the alpha female


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## Fishnut2

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## RedneckR0nin

I am pretty sure barometric pressure triggers the instinct to breed and /or move to spawning grounds. Take note of it please as it may be usefull in the future.


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## Fishnut2

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## cobrafox46

LOL.....every fish I have ever owned will occasionally swim up to the surface and gulp air and let it flow through their gills. I doubt they can actually breathe air.


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## Fishnut2

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## cobrafox46

Are you sure it is courting and not just aggression? I have had Common Wolf fish, Red High Fin Wolf Fish, Snakeheads (Gachua and Marulia), even small Red bellies on occasion due the exact tailwhipping as aggression. They are establishing dominance from what I underrstand by doing so and basically just pissed. I highly do not believe that being in the tank for only 3 weeks any breeding will take place. Convicts take longer than that. I am no expert but it sounds like a bunch of B.S. Good Luck though and if it miraculousy happens Congrats.........but it won't LOL!


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## Fishnut2

Obviously you haven't read the entire thread Cobra. I agree that you are NO expert!


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## cobrafox46

I agree with you on the no expert part but that is it...but these supposed vids, pits dug, courting and other BS that has not been shown I am sure has people wondering. Plus the whole air breathing thing just kinda did it for me. LOL I laugh when I say it LOL! Are they Hybrid snakehead/elongs? LOL! Plus your sexing ideas that OPEFE has never figured out but you somehow did. You can sex red bellies without seeing them spawn. Come on man.............get real.


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## Fishnut2

I've got about 20 hours of observation in now on the Elongs, and 3 hours of video. I've decided to continue this at another site. If I do spawn them, I'll post a link.


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## Pit_man

Fishnut2 said:


> I've got about 20 hours of observation in now on the Elongs, and 3 hours of video. I've decided to continue this at another site. If I do spawn them, I'll post a link.


dude dont do that, just because a few ppl dont belive you, dont meen there arnt a bunch that wanna see and hear whats going on!! You wont find more ppl that care about what you are doing than here.


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## thedude8

dont let cobra ruin the fun for everyone else. Most of us still want to see updates!!


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## cobrafox46

LOL...one guy is skeptical and you just run away.....I voiced my opinions and that is that.......it is obvious that you are BSing IMO. For everyone elses sake, because I enjoy this site, I will stay out of your thread so keep these guys updated.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Fishnut2 said:


> Pat,
> It's not just the slope of the head. I used that as an example, since it's so easy to tell on reds. I have 16 breeders and I can sex every one. Sexing 1 fish is difficult. Sexing a group of similar aged fish is easier.*Id like to see your 8 pairs. Not saying your lying, but i just think it be cool to see 8 pairs. Why do you need so many, im assuming you breed them commercially?*
> So it's the slope of the head/the girth of the abdomen area/how they interact in a group/and 40 years of breeding experience. Sean saying that I base it on nothing (without knowing that) is premature.*Sexing elongs is based on nothing. You cannot say you are right unless they bred or you cut them open and actually varified that your method does indeed work.* You don't have to cut a fish open to verify thier sex. Ever heard about spawning them* So you can sex only about 3 species? Reds actually give a way to varify it, but Just slpe of the head, abdomen size... arnt sure fire methods imo since fish can vary and its not liek some fish that you can easily tell the difference. I do think there is some truth to sexing them, but going only by shape doesnt seem to accurate as indivdual fish and varients can vary and not just the sexes. i also have some reds and my largest is probably a good inch or so larger then all the others (bought same time) s0 does that mean i have on of one sex and the rest of another? i would assume not since different fish grow differently at differant rates as well as slightly different appearances.. *? That's what this thread is about.
> 
> We have a storm front moving in today, so I decided to give the Elongs another attempt. Video equiptment will be setup in advance, tank glass will be cleaned, and this attempt will be with a single pair. The alpha male, and the female he was circling with. At the very least, I hope to document pre-spawn activity this time. To the experienced hobbiest, the pre-spawn activity will prove a M/F pair. Agressive behaviour is totally different from pre-spawn activity. For others, they'll have to wait for a documented spawn...before they believe.
> I certainly hope to get a spawn from this attempt. But I will keep trying even if I don't. The irredescent coloration on the back/side-brushing/and circling over the pit last time...were certainly promising events. The agression didn't start until hours after I disturbed them setting up video equiptment. I really don't care if I record a spawning or not. I don't care if anyone believes I can sex them either. I'm just trying to share info. Somebody else could learn from my mistakes.
> 
> In closing (for now) I just want to add a disclaimer. I may have the sexes reversed. It might be the females with steeper slopes on the foreheads *So much for it being easy to tell. Well at least your honest*(as with reds). My point is I can see a difference. And from watching them interact for 12 hours during the last attempt, I believe it's the males with steeper sloping foreheads, with this species!*Especially with elongs you cant tel lthe sex unless you cut them open. They havnt been spawned in captivity (and best of luck to you) so you have nothing verifying if your sexing stratagy is even close to being real.*


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## Fishnut2

Now "THAT'S" BS.


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## RedneckR0nin

Well if you are going to take down everything that you wrote and go to wherever can you at least pm me where that might be as I will be trying to breed them as well in the future and could use any and every helpful hint that I could get. I also suggest Fishnut to grow a little thicker skin man as everyone that has tried to do what has never been done before was subject to ridicle on some level. This will be no exception and let everyone have there opinion as to what they feel is possible and impossible. This way you have documentation of the doubts and statements that went against you. Instead of taking it personal and deleting your entire thread why not encourage everyone to do their worst and use that as motivation in your attempts to breed. It would also not f*ck over the people that are generally intrested in this and want to help in any way they can and learn from it as well. Cause the bottom line is this will not be achieved without networking of ideas and problem solving solutions.


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## CLUSTER ONE

RedneckR0nin said:


> Well if you are going to take down everything that you wrote and go to wherever can you at least pm me where that might be as I will be trying to breed them as well in the future and could use any and every helpful hint that I could get. I also suggest Fishnut to grow a little thicker skin*nothing is personal on the internet.* man as everyone that has tried to do what has never been done before was subject to ridicle on some level. This will be no exception and let everyone have there opinion as to what they feel is possible and impossible.*I think he does have a decent shot at breedign them if they dont kill eachother first. The reason they havnt been bred is it hasnt been tried really.* This way you have documentation of the doubts and statements that went against you. Instead of taking it personal and deleting your entire thread why not encourage everyone to do their worst and use that as motivation in your attempts to breed. It would also not f*ck over the people that are generally intrested in this and want to help in any way they can and learn from it as well. Cause the bottom line is this will not be achieved without networking of ideas and problem solving solutions.


 I stil ldont get how you can argue that you can sex elongs yet you have no speciments of varified sex to compare your theories with. Just to help you, member "sparky" had an elong that had eggs so that will give you what a female elong looks like assuming you can tell the difference. You cant blame me for not beleiving you since scientists dont sex them externally nor do hobbiests, but yet youve found a fool proof method to sex p's even though you dont know which sex is which.


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## blbig50

Don't stop man, keep it up and keep us updated. PM sent!


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## cobrafox46

Ok so you delete everything when some people are interested. One guy tells you that you have no proof to back up what you are doing though you said for 3 days you were going to post up pics.







You are making it more obvious you are lying since you are begging for attention by deleting your post and making this sh*t up. I *WISH* you would prove me wrong by breeding them then you can tell me to go f*ck myself. It would be a great accomplishment but in my eyes you are leading everyone on.

Be a man dude.....if someone criticizes me or tells me they do not believe me I will go out of my way to post pics and vids to prove them wrong......you deleted all your info/nonsense so what does that say?

It is obvious that some guys have faith and believe in you so why would you leave them hanging?

PROVE ME WRONG DAMN-IT







......seriously I will not post anymore in here.


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## CLUSTER ONE

cobrafox46 said:


> Ok so you delete everything when some people are interested. One guy tells you that you have no proof to back up what you are doing though you said for 3 days you were going to post up pics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are making it more obvious you are lying since you are begging for attention by deleting your post and making this sh*t up. I *WISH* you would prove me wrong by breeding them then you can tell me to go f*ck myself. It would be a great accomplishment but in my eyes you are leading everyone on. *Im not doubting you cant breed just that you can sex them accuratly as unless you see many spawn or cut many open their is no way you can classify then as male or female*
> 
> Be a man dude.....if someone criticizes me or tells me they do not believe me I will go out of my way to post pics and vids to prove them wrong......you deleted all your info/nonsense so what does that say?*i dont know how anybody can take things personally on the internet since on the internet everybody is an expert. All you need is proof beyond just saying i just somehow magically know*
> 
> It is obvious that some guys have faith and believe in you so why would you leave them hanging?
> 
> PROVE ME WRONG DAMN-IT *if it were me id try to shove everything said against me back down their throats.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ......seriously I will not post anymore in here.


Also, im still waiting on the pics of you 16 breeders. Just for fun, could you put a ketchup bottle on the left side for size reference and to show you have 8 pairs.


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## Pit_man

hey guys you dont belive him we get it!! lay off a lil! some of us still wanna see even if it goes bad at least he is trying. you will never be able to do anything unless you try, if he is wrong soo freaking what??


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## blbig50

He's doing more to try to breed elongs than anyone else is. Everything has to have a starting point to get somewhere.


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## RedneckR0nin

Well we used to have a starting point now we have EDIT


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## Us And Them

Im Guessing All The Elongs plotted against him and ate him !!
Because at this point its the only thing that seems logical for his absense

Now come on , These guys arent asking Much here.. They just want to see a Picture..
Never mind them having sex.. but for someone to be able to accomidate 8 Pairs , well
thats already an accomplishment in my eyes..

Lets take things one step at a time , Can we See Pictures of Your pairs..
Not to much to ask.

i mean if you dont have them , then perhaps you shouldnt have posted anything about it
Prematurely , But by going on a Public Forum that Pic is the only cred You've got.

You cant get mad when people question You ANY reputable Scientist would be out there
trying as darn best they could to SHUT all the haters up.


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## RedneckR0nin

They are doing fine, I have seen pics and get updates regular but he felt that this was not the place to post results and findings. I won't comment either way on what I feel but it was his decsion and he made it. I again state everything is impossible until it isn't anymore and when I try I will blog it here insted of making a thread based on this example so I don't have a bunch of side comments along the way. I think anyone that tries to breed Elongs know the risk involved and Fishnut has bred alot of different types of fish as well as RBP very successfully. So if anyone here could be successful at this point I believe it could be him.


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## Us And Them

RedneckR0nin said:


> They are doing fine, I have seen pics and get updates regular but he felt that this was not the place to post results and findings. I won't comment either way on what I feel but it was his decsion and he made it. I again state everything is impossible until it isn't anymore and when I try I will blog it here insted of making a thread based on this example so I don't have a bunch of side comments along the way. I think anyone that tries to breed Elongs know the risk involved and Fishnut has bred alot of different types of fish as well as RBP very successfully. So if anyone here could be successful at this point I believe it could be him.


Hey Ronin , i would be interested in seeing some of those Pics if You dont mind sending them.
I have seen Elongs Cohab for a few weeks at Dragon aquarium in Mississauga.. Didnt last
long though maybe a few weeks at most.

No doubt in my mind that they can Cohab....
The real question is for how long..?


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## CLUSTER ONE

Imo, they breed in the wild so its obviously possible in captivity. Problem is how to stimulate then to breed as well as have a large enough tank to eliminate excessive deaths. If its not tried it wont happen, so if your willing to risk it , you will either win or loose.


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## His Majesty

its been almost two weeks since he has last posted.

shame as i wanted to see how the breeding goes. dont let a few negative comments scare you away like that. alot of people beleive you and want to see how it progresses. dont let one persons comments effect you. 
unless you really are full of BS

anyway please give us an update fishnut. like to see how this develops. or send me a link via pm to the site your updating on. we need more people like you to try the whole breeding senario.
thanks man


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## primetime3wise

yes, i wish fishnut would post about what is happening with his project. there are those of us very interested in what he is doing. ignore the hate.


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## RedneckR0nin

He's not coming back guys I thought you all had figured it out by now. I talk to him pretty often but don't have permission to post pics. I know that sounds lame but it's what he asked and I will respect his wishes. He has since seperated them again to make room for some incoming fish but will co-hab them again within two weeks


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA

Its BS that he took the sh1t to another site either hes scared because this is all BS or home boy just really pissed him off..


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## RedneckR0nin

THE BLACK PIRANHA said:


> Its BS that he took the sh1t to another site either hes scared because this is all BS or* home boy just really pissed him off..
> *


More than likely


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## Fishnut2

Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!

Yep, home boy got me PO.


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## blbig50

Glad to see you post. Care to share anything with the group?


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## RedneckR0nin

Fishnut2 said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> Yep, home boy got me PO.


THANK YOU I was starting to feel like Jimmy Stewart preaching and singing whhile everyone says yeah right!!


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## primetime3wise

i do believe this is going to take ALOT longer than 2 1/2 weeks for them to spawn, if it happens. the fish have to feel comfortable with their surroundings. my macs only breed after several months in a 125g, moved from two 75g tanks. once they felt at ease with the tank and each other they spawned like crazy. same thing for the guy that bought my breeders, took like 3-4 months in a 180g. and that is with serras that cohab fairly well, not like elongs. i know RNR said that you stopped the cohab, as well, for now. i'm not criticizing you for doing that, just saying when you put them back it will take them longer again to reestablish themselves in the cohab.

on the plus side, i think it could work in a huge tank because elongs TEND to be a little less skittish than other piranhas.


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## cobrafox46

Fishnut2 said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.


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## Trigga

I'm starting to become skeptical if this is legit too


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## primetime3wise

cobrafox46 said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.
[/quote]

nice...that will get him coming back, seriosuly what are you thinking, cobra? that's an empty apology after you basically trash him again, then say you are sorry.


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## Pit_man

primetime3wise said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.
[/quote]
nice...that will get him coming back, seriosuly what are you thinking, cobra? that's an empty apology after you basically trash him again, then say you are sorry.
[/quote]

no basically about it, HE TRASHED HIM AGAIN







if he was for real about his apology and cared if dude posted again for the ppl that wanted to see whats going on he would have posted the red part and left out all the rest


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## cobrafox46

primetime3wise said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.
[/quote]

nice...that will get him coming back, seriosuly what are you thinking, cobra? that's an empty apology after you basically trash him again, then say you are sorry.
[/quote]

It is an empty apology because there is no apology to be given in the first place. It is so hard to apologize for something I did not really do wrong and to a guy that is just obviously....I can't say it. He should be apologizing to you guys for running off. I feel like I am in 7th grade again......it pisses me off so bad that some people are whiny little girls and cannot take any criticism. I feel really bad for you guys not getting your updates....well so called....but damn this guy is irritating. I feel like the bad guy (even though he is for running off like a girl and sending notes like in elementary school to *******) for giving this guy a little bit of sh*t and him running off even though criticism should only motivate a person more. I have gotten criticized constantly for owning mustangs on here and do I run off like a little queer or sell them?? Seriously, it feels like middle school all over again.

*And he REALLY thought Elongs were air breathers .....Come on people, think about that and how much he knows about fish or at least the fish he is trying to breed...June 6 he posted that he was a newbie and knew nothing about elongs and all of a sudden after having them for 2 weeks they are showing signs of breeding and he is a genius?*

Put 2 and 2 together guys.
*"I'm looking for ANY info on Elongatus. Size of maturity. Compatability. Favorite foods. Water parameters. Any thoughts or ideas. I'm a newbie lol! A site search just turned up growth rates"*
This one is 4 days after receiving his fish "*No pre-spawn activity, but they definetely are interested in each other.* *90% of the time, they are in the center, checking each **other out*. *The 4 section partition is everything I hoped it would be. I still have no idea if they will spawn through the partition. But the chances look promising. *


----------



## cobrafox46

Pit_man said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.
[/quote]
nice...that will get him coming back, seriosuly what are you thinking, cobra? that's an empty apology after you basically trash him again, then say you are sorry.
[/quote]

no basically about it, HE TRASHED HIM AGAIN







if he was for real about his apology and *cared if dude posted again for the ppl that wanted to see* whats going on he would have posted the red part and left out all the rest :nod:
[/quote]

I do care about the members on this site as most are really cool guys and in all seriousness........I am sure ******* will be through here again.......SERIOUSLY Suspend me ******* and tell the little fairy that I am suspended so he can come back and clown around leading everyone on a wild goose chase again. If you will not do it ******* get another mod to. All I ask is to be reinstated after this guy is a no show again or finally admits to being full of sh*t. Make sure you tell him if he does not start posting I will be reinstated, that will get him to post..I will take the bullet for you guys LOL!


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

cobrafox46 said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.
[/quote]

nice...that will get him coming back, seriosuly what are you thinking, cobra? that's an empty apology after you basically trash him again, then say you are sorry.
[/quote]

It is an empty apology because there is no apology to be given in the first place. It is so hard to apologize for something I did not really do wrong and to a guy that is just obviously....I can't say it. He should be apologizing to you guys for running off. I feel like I am in 7th grade again......it pisses me off so bad that some people are whiny little girls and cannot take any criticism. I feel really bad for you guys not getting your updates....well so called....but damn this guy is irritating. I feel like the bad guy (even though he is for running off like a girl and sending notes like in elementary school to *******) for giving this guy a little bit of sh*t and him running off even though criticism should only motivate a person more. I have gotten criticized constantly for owning mustangs on here and do I run off like a little queer or sell them?? Seriously, it feels like middle school all over again.

*And he REALLY thought Elongs were air breathers .....Come on people, think about that and how much he knows about fish or at least the fish he is trying to breed...June 6 he posted that he was a newbie and knew nothing about elongs and all of a sudden after having them for 2 weeks they are showing signs of breeding and he is a genius?*

Put 2 and 2 together guys.
*"I'm looking for ANY info on Elongatus. Size of maturity. Compatability. Favorite foods. Water parameters. Any thoughts or ideas. I'm a newbie lol! A site search just turned up growth rates"*
This one is 4 days after receiving his fish "*No pre-spawn activity, but they definetely are interested in each other.* *90% of the time, they are in the center, checking each **other out*. *The 4 section partition is everything I hoped it would be. I still have no idea if they will spawn through the partition. But the chances look promising. *
[/quote]

I dont even remember him sayign elongs were air breathers (which to me sounds like breathing at the surface. I agree that all of a sudden you seem to think your pro and b/c of this its hard to beleive you as if you do indeed have 8 pairs of breeding reds you could prove it, or you should at least know the basic facts about elongs which are farily common p's. You aslo cant really be too serious if you think its "promising" that they will spawn through the partition since with only 3 partitions, its still a decent chance that there isnt a male and female on either side.

Finially, you claim to have8 pairs of breedign reds, able to visually sex both elongs and reds and go from a self admitted noob to a master after only a week with elongs and "20 hours of observation". IDK, but if your makign these bold claims on the internet, you may want to have proof other then your own theories that clearly arnt proven or else you will be called on your bluffs. If you have proof, then post it and shut all the "haters" up. Its not that hard. Not posting any proof and running away doesnt help your case any. Im still waiting on either proof or you to admit your full of bs with your claims. Ill admit i was wrong if you can prove it, but visually sexing elongs isnt scientific unless you can verify that your method does indeed work which you have yet to do so as of now your just saying your theories are true becasue to you thats what it looks like basically. To add to this you must be pretty smart if you develop a fool proof sexing method after having elongs for only like a week or two.

Anyways at least you have proven you have multiple elongs so i do beleive you have a chance at breeding (though with only 4 the odds arnt even that close to 100% chance of a pair).


----------



## Pit_man

cobrafox46 said:


> Anybody that has doubts, should PM Baddfish. He picked up some red bellies yesterday. He also seen over 10,000 new arrivals from Manaus. Posting takes less time then taking pics (or videos). If you think I'm full of BS, you are welcome to learn from somebody else!
> 
> *Yep, home boy got me PO.*










The main reason I personally think you are full of sh*t is the fact you actually thought Elongs were air breathers, sorry I laugh every time LOL. Any novice Piranha keeper knows that is not true and you "being around and breeding all these fish" should definitely know that. It is obvious you have not done enough research on the fish you are trying to breed plus it is just kinda common sense. Also a monkey could breed red bellies so I do not see a huge accomplishment in that.

Anyways since you are obviously browsing why are you still being a child and not posting for these people that are interested? I think it is BS you are leaving these guys in the dark because of something I said. I hate having the burden of running someone off that was doing something others were interested in. I feel bad for the people interested. It is pretty sad ******* has to relay all your stuff and is not allowed to post pictures......seriously man stop being a little girl. My 2 year old niece acts more mature than you.

Anyways I want to seriously *apologize* publicly so you will come back and show these guys what you are doing. *I am sorry* for my remarks and I will honestly refrain from any posting in this section if you start informing thses guys on your progress.
[/quote]

nice...that will get him coming back, seriosuly what are you thinking, cobra? that's an empty apology after you basically trash him again, then say you are sorry.
[/quote]

It is an empty apology because there is no apology to be given in the first place. It is so hard to apologize for something I did not really do wrong and to a guy that is just obviously....I can't say it. He should be apologizing to you guys for running off. I feel like I am in 7th grade again......it pisses me off so bad that some people are whiny little girls and cannot take any criticism. I feel really bad for you guys not getting your updates....well so called....but damn this guy is irritating. I feel like the bad guy (even though he is for running off like a girl and sending notes like in elementary school to *******) for giving this guy a little bit of sh*t and him running off even though criticism should only motivate a person more. I have gotten criticized constantly for owning mustangs on here and do I run off like a little queer or sell them?? Seriously, it feels like middle school all over again.

*And he REALLY thought Elongs were air breathers .....Come on people, think about that and how much he knows about fish or at least the fish he is trying to breed...June 6 he posted that he was a newbie and knew nothing about elongs and all of a sudden after having them for 2 weeks they are showing signs of breeding and he is a genius?*

Put 2 and 2 together guys.
*"I'm looking for ANY info on Elongatus. Size of maturity. Compatability. Favorite foods. Water parameters. Any thoughts or ideas. I'm a newbie lol! A site search just turned up growth rates"*
This one is 4 days after receiving his fish "*No pre-spawn activity, but they definetely are interested in each other.* *90% of the time, they are in the center, checking each **other out*. *The 4 section partition is everything I hoped it would be. I still have no idea if they will spawn through the partition. But the chances look promising. *
[/quote]

I realy dont care what you say, that is part of being on a forum. Some belive you and some dont. I realy dont think you have said anything wrong, you have just said it a few to many times LOL I dont know if he can or cant, just wanted to see either way. What i do find funny is I have heard you say like 5 times you are gone and wont post in here anymore then like 5 mins later your back


----------



## cobrafox46

I said it twice and the only reason I wrote the second one because he was acting like a complete tool and deleted all his stuff. Yeah I guess you are right about the every 5 minutes considering it has been 2 weeks since I posted last since yesterday......2 weeks........5 minutes......yeah pretty close there. Maybe you should go help him.....with your math skills and his abundant fish knowledge, you should have them breeding in a day.


----------



## Pit_man

cobrafox46 said:


> I said it twice and the only reason I wrote the second one because he was acting like a complete tool and deleted all his stuff. Yeah I guess you are right about the every 5 minutes considering it has been 2 weeks since I posted last since yesterday......2 weeks........5 minutes......yeah pretty close there. Maybe you should go help him.....with your math skills and his abundant fish knowledge, you should have them breeding in a day.


Now you are just being stupid!! Do you realy think I literally ment 5mins? I have heard you say a few times that it would be your last post! Mabe rnr should ban you, your being a dick! (again I did meen that literally) LMAO

(the ban part, not you being a dick! YOU ARE)


----------



## cobrafox46

I was just messin wit ya Pit......that is why I put the wink on the end.....please do not take it to heart and leave the site like your brother Fishnut did LOL!

I kid, I kid


----------



## Pit_man

cobrafox46 said:


> I was just messin wit ya Pit......that is why I put the wink on the end.....please do not take it to heart and leave the site like your brother Fishnut did LOL!
> 
> I kid, I kid












its all good cobra







, like i said part of being on a forum


----------



## Fishnut2

As far as Elongatus surface breathing...that was an observation I made while watching them. I posted that I "think" they might be surface breathing. I never stated it as a fact. If you had researched that topic a little bit...you might be surprised to find out that Natterei and Caribe are surface breathers. The discovery channel shows them surface breathing during the low water part of the dry season...and specifically points out that they are capable of it.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

Fishnut2 said:


> As far as Elongatus surface breathing...that was an observation I made while watching them. I posted that I "think" they might be surface breathing. I never stated it as a fact. If you had researched that topic a little bit...you might be surprised to find out that Natterei and Caribe are surface breathers. The discovery channel shows them surface breathing during the low water part of the dry season...and specifically points out that they are capable of it.


 I think what you were refering to was during the dry season when there was only like 3" of water and the fish literally have to swim sideways. if they were literally surface breathers they would be more like whales and would not need gills as gill get th o2 from the water, not from the surface air. I do know some fish do go for the surface for a gulp of air, but this isnt really frequent enough to say they breath at the surface (commonly).


----------



## Fishnut2

Sean,
It was during the dry season, and probably in 12" to 24" of water. The narrator specifically said they were breathing surface air, as a means of survival. And the footage was rolling as he said it. It was on the Discovery Channel...and the name of the series was " Piranha Adventure". There were several mini-series segments, that made up the entire 1 hour show. I found some of them on the Discovery Channel site, but not that particular one...or I would've linked it. This particular segment showed how the piranha become prey for other animals, during the dry season. If you find it...please hook us up!


----------



## Piranha Guru

If your elongs are "breathing air", then it is because the O2 levels in the water are way too low (which means they are super stressed). It is a last ditch survival effort that is highly inefficient as their gills are not designed for it and it cannot keep them alive in the long run. Most likely what is keeping them alive is that by doing this they are disturbing the surface of the water and allowing it to absorb more O2 so that their gills can extract it from the water. Gill filaments and air don't mix well. They do however regularly gulp air to balance out their swim bladder. The only fish that truly breathe air and will drown if none is available are some species of lungfish which have modified swim bladders (which is believed to have lead to the evolution of true lungs). Other fish rely on both air and water due to environment such as anabantoids, some gobies and blennies, certain catfish, loaches, etc...the way they do this is varied such as through the skin, through the gut, and using a labryinth.


----------



## Us And Them

BioTeAcH said:


> If your elongs are "breathing air", then it is because the O2 levels in the water are way too low (which means they are super stressed). It is a last ditch survival effort that is highly inefficient as their gills are not designed for it and it cannot keep them alive in the long run. Most likely what is keeping them alive is that by doing this they are disturbing the surface of the water and allowing it to absorb more O2 so that their gills can extract it from the water. Gill filaments and air don't mix well. They do however regularly gulp air to balance out their swim bladder. The only fish that truly breathe air and will drown if none is available are some species of lungfish which have modified swim bladders (which is believed to have lead to the evolution of true lungs). Other fish rely on both air and water due to environment such as anabantoids, some gobies and blennies, certain catfish, loaches, etc...the way they do this is varied such as through the skin, through the gut, and using a labryinth.










Thats some fine knowledge right there.

Just let us know about all the Casualties ok?


----------



## Fishnut2

Bio - All 4 Elongs did it when I introduced them to the new tank. The DO in the shipping bags was probably low. I agree with what you posted. It probably only happens as a survival instinct.

Was P-F down for a while? I had problems loading the site since last night.


----------



## Piranha Guru

Fishnut2 said:


> Was P-F down for a while? I had problems loading the site since last night.


I've had problems getting in all day until a little bit ago.

GG must have been doing some programming and crashed the sight when he fell out of his wheelchair...I told him to get the First Alert system ("Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!!!").


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

BioTeAcH said:


> Was P-F down for a while? I had problems loading the site since last night.


I've had problems getting in all day until a little bit ago.

GG must have been doing some programming and crashed the sight when he fell out of his wheelchair...I told him to get the First Alert system ("Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!!!").
[/quote]
lol
I was on the last couple days and it was fine. It was really slow, but it think that was just my computer.


----------



## Trigga

f*ck an apology dude if he's for real he will
come back and gloat when he has a ton of elong fry... If not f*ck him


----------



## His Majesty

theres been more pointless arguing in this forum than actualy informative posts.

Fishnut care to give us an update on your progress?? much appreciated


----------



## Blue Flame

whats with all the edited posts? lol


----------



## Fishnut2

Trigger - I got a shipment in from Brazil, and the (125) breeding tank I use is stuffed with 1400 cardinals. I won't try another co-hab for a few weeks.


----------



## Us And Them

I have had two Elongatus in my time Keeping Piranhas
I have never once EVER observed any of that type of behaviour ,
tanks are in my room , definetly would have noticed..

On the other Hand , my Red Hi Fin Wolf Fish has done this before not often , but it does
and its because it has Lung(s)

Sorry fishNut ,Its just a Failed attempt.
as for Breeding them , i believe you need to cut Your losses and give up on the Elong Cohab UNLESS
you can really commit those Fish to atleast 180 Gallons together for Life.

go hard or Go home ,

Stick em together until they all die. or dont try at all. Thats the beauty about Breeding Elongs !!! You gotta
go where no breeder has gone before bud. and as Frank from OPEFE has said " There will be alot of taring of flesh
and scales everywhere."

If money is an issue , then you shouldnt be trying this at all. The money aspect of this is making you weak.
seperating them at the first signs of agression , isnt the answer.

IMO , in the end you might loose 1 or 2 , But i believe thats what it will take to breed these bad boys.
I think you should also have all 4 sides of Your tank Covered and Have little to no human interaction.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

CrazeeJon said:


> I have had two Elongatus in my time Keeping Piranhas
> I have never once EVER observed any of that type of behaviour ,
> tanks are in my room , definetly would have noticed..
> 
> On the other Hand , my Red Hi Fin Wolf Fish has done this before not often , but it does
> and its because it has Lung(s)*Ive seen my sanchezi do this before and i think its to even his swim bladder, but its not very frequent at all.*
> 
> Sorry fishNut ,Its just a Failed attempt.
> as for Breeding them , i believe you need to cut Your losses and give up on the Elong Cohab UNLESS
> you can really commit those Fish to atleast 180 Gallons together for Life.*A smaller tank isnt impossible, it will just make territory more of an issue*
> 
> go hard or Go home ,
> 
> Stick em together until they all die. or dont try at all. Thats the beauty about Breeding Elongs !!! You gotta*Much easier to say when its not your money on the line.*
> 
> If money is an issue , then you shouldnt be trying this at all. The money aspect of this is making you weak.
> seperating them at the first signs of agression , isnt the answer.*That is still more then most people do. Untill you understand their intereaction, i would be very careful when there is aggression and would probably separate them if it go worse*
> 
> IMO , in the end you might loose 1 or 2 , But i believe thats what it will take to breed these bad boys.*You dont want to be loseing a couple elongs just for a chance at breeding. Its not uncommon for p's to be killed for territory and have nothing to do with breeding.*


----------



## Us And Them

How could someone tell the difference between Mating and fighting ?
For Elongs , that is...

Are there any Vids of them breeding in the wild ?


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

CrazeeJon said:


> How could someone tell the difference between Mating and fighting ?
> For Elongs , that is...
> 
> Are there any Vids of them breeding in the wild ?


No vids that ive ever seen. For p fighting there is an awsome youtube vid with a caribe vs piraya. I dont know if elongs would fight the same, but i think there would be some similarities. Same with breeding, i would assume the p's still build a nest, gaurd it...


----------



## Fishnut2

The difference between agression and pre-spawning activity is VERY obvious. They strike quickly and as Frank said...scales fly! I picked up the other 2 Elongs from the same shipment. So I now have 6. (5-1/2" to 7") The longest a pair has co-habbed for me, is 4 days. I haven't had the time or tank space to attempt to breed them lately. I probably won't for quite some time.


----------



## Demon Darko

Take a break if you have to, but def. don't give up. F*ck all the haters and doubters,a dn you may very well be the first person on this forum to breed them.


----------



## Us And Them

Slytooth13 said:


> Take a break if you have to, but def. don't give up. F*ck all the haters and doubters,a dn you may very well be the first person on this forum to breed them.


 ,
Nobody is hating Sly , its just this guy has made some claims that have made members a little
bit un easy. For example the Comment that FISH NUT made about being able to Sex Elongs , It was
completely stupid , Unjustified and he Has based this basically on Ridiculous thoughts he made up in
his head.


----------



## FishermanCanada

heres my cohab, it worked well until i needed the room.


----------



## RedneckR0nin

My Co-hab has worked now for approx 3-4 months without one sign of aggression towards each other!


----------



## Fishnut2

CrazeeJon said:


> Take a break if you have to, but def. don't give up. F*ck all the haters and doubters,a dn you may very well be the first person on this forum to breed them.


 ,
Nobody is hating Sly , its just this guy has made some claims that have made members a little
bit un easy. For example the Comment that FISH NUT made about being able to Sex Elongs , It was
completely stupid , Unjustified and he Has based this basically on Ridiculous thoughts he made up in
his head.
[/quote]

It's comments like CrazeeJon's that keep me from posting here on a regular basis. (stupid/unjustified/ridiculous) When I try to share information, it is met with doubt, smart-ass comments, and controversy. I posted pics, explained the differences, and answered any legimate questions regarding sexing them. You are welcome to disagree...but I don't care for the childish comments.

I have 41 years of experience keeping different fish. I currently have over 100 tanks, with about 25,000 fish. I'm a wholesaler that imports direct from Brazil and Columbia. I bred the red bellies within 2 months of my first attempt, and provided pics of the fry. And I've tried to share that information here, as I was learning.

What's YOUR level of experience CrazeeJon???


----------



## Us And Them

Fishnut2 said:


> Take a break if you have to, but def. don't give up. F*ck all the haters and doubters,a dn you may very well be the first person on this forum to breed them.


 ,
Nobody is hating Sly , its just this guy has made some claims that have made members a little
bit un easy. For example the Comment that FISH NUT made about being able to Sex Elongs , It was
completely stupid , Unjustified and he Has based this basically on Ridiculous thoughts he made up in
his head.
[/quote]

It's comments like CrazeeJon's that keep me from posting here on a regular basis. (stupid/unjustified/ridiculous) When I try to share information, it is met with doubt, smart-ass comments, and controversy. I posted pics, explained the differences, and answered any legimate questions regarding sexing them. You are welcome to disagree...but I don't care for the childish comments.

I have 41 years of experience keeping different fish. I currently have over 100 tanks, with about 25,000 fish. I'm a wholesaler that imports direct from Brazil and Columbia. I bred the red bellies within 2 months of my first attempt, and provided pics of the fry. And I've tried to share that information here, as I was learning.

What's YOUR level of experience CrazeeJon???
[/quote]

My Level of Experience in just over 1 year is enough to know that your whack job theories about sexing Elongs is a shot in the dark, nothing more than a GUESS. I can't even begin to wonder how you can justify that .

oh and heres a legitimate question for you . Where and what did you study ?Im sure there are lots of eager scientists and Doctors waiting to hear your expertise in the field of Sexing Elongs.


----------



## Fishnut2

I rest my case. You are right about the scientists. Frank said he will have some of his friends look into my observations on sexing Elongs. I haven't heard back from him, so it might have stopped there. But his opinion of my efforts was much higher then your's!


----------



## Us And Them

Fishnut2 said:


> I rest my case. You are right about the scientists. Frank said he will have some of his friends look into my observations on sexing Elongs. I haven't heard back from him, so it might have stopped there. But his opinion of my efforts was much higher then your's!


 Im asking you were YOUR credibility comes from and where you have studied . Being able to OVERSTEP all of these scientists is a big accomplishment my friend. Im sure they would like to know why they spent
thousands of dollars and Years in school only to underminded by some hobbyist with a theory.

Breed them all you want , I dont care . But dont Cum on my Cake and call it Icing Buddy. dont expect people to jump up and believe you , there will always be doubters , frankly it doesnt make sense.

and sorry but i dont think frank will bother His friends in high places , or atleast I hope he doesnt.

Come spit in my face when you have Elong Fry and Scientific discoveries under Your belt and than i will shut up.

stop talkn about breeding and breed already.


----------



## Fishnut2

Jon,
I'm not trying to overstep or undermine the scientists. I'm trying to work with them. They usually use DNA testing or disect fish to determine the sex. If they agree with my observations, they might take it to the next step, and actually do that. Elongs are expensive, and difficult to come by. I'm simply offering advice to the average hobbiest/breeder, that has 3-4 Elongs. Being able to sex them, greatly increases the odds of breeding them.
What information, observations, advice...or anything positive...have YOU offered on this thread?
(If I did breed them - I'd never "spit in your face" That's not my style)


----------



## Demon Darko

I spent all day trying to find a thread, but I couldn't find it. In the thread a member is trying to cohab elongs and he gets brutally flamed by a dozen people. ******* just said he's had a cohab of elongs for a while now, and nobody said sh*t. If you don't believe this guy's claims and observations, don't read his thread. And as far as scientists go, they are regular people as well who just have spent a longer time doing this stuff then we have. Look at all the observations that were wrong published by scientists who were studying Piranhas years ago. It all starts with observing. Try to be positive instead of bashing this guy.


----------



## Fishnut2

Slytooth13 said:


> I spent all day trying to find a thread, but I couldn't find it. In the thread a member is trying to cohab elongs and he gets brutally flamed by a dozen people. ******* just said he's had a cohab of elongs for a while now, and nobody said sh*t. If you don't believe this guy's claims and observations, don't read his thread. And as far as scientists go, they are regular people as well who just have spent a longer time doing this stuff then we have. Look at all the observations that were wrong published by scientists who were studying Piranhas years ago. It all starts with observing. Try to be positive instead of bashing this guy.


Thanks for your support Sly. I've witheld a ton of information, due to the constant negative comments I've received on this site. There are ways to strip milt from the males, and eggs from the females...without disecting the fish. And YES, artificial insemination, and hormone induced spawns are possible. I believe they started doing this as early as 1991.

I tried to offer a way to sex Elongs, through visual observations. I've verified it (in my own opinion) by interaction within a group of mature, co-habbed Elongs. It was further verified by pre-spawn activity. Spawning colors/tail-slapping/and circling a pre-constucted pit. I was met with so many negative comments, that I never bothered to strip eggs or milt for confirmation. I put my breeding efforts on hold. I'm a wholesaler...which is all about turnover. It's difficult to tie up a 125 for a week or 2, let alone a month or 2. (which is probably what's needed to do this right)

Whether members or scientists agree that Elongs can be sexed, isn't the issue. I tried to share my observations, and have be ridiculed for it. Would you continue to share information...if you were being constantly harassed?


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## db04ph

i hope you are not giving up man,


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## Fishnut2

Not at all. I'm waiting for a time period, where I can try for at least a full month. I'm actually expanding to a 2nd facility right now. I might have room then. But a 125 can hold 1400 large cardinals...that sell every week. I could tie that 125 up with Elongs for a month, and get NO results! So it's hard to free up a tank for that long.


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## EZmoney

Hey Fishnut2, glad to see that you are persevering and still posting here! I am certainly interested in your findings and experiments. Please stop entertaining those who challenge your theories with insults and name calling. Those people seem to really get under your skin and easily discourage your efforts. I hope you will start focusing on those members who are encouraging you and your efforts.

It wasn't too long ago that everyone _knew_ that the world was flat, yet Columbus set a course for the edge of the map and proved them wrong. Why? Because he worked with the few people who believed in him, rather than arguing with all the naysayers.

When you first came to this site, I too was a doubter because I didn't know your background. I wrongly assumed that you were another new member with delusions of successfully breaking the rules of p keeping. I have seen many of those members come and go on this site. That is why PFury members may be reluctant to quickly embrace new and revolutionary theories proposed by strangers.

After talking with you about sponge filters and other theories of yours, I understood you better and realized that you are NOT one of those people. I am still disappointed that you deleted all of your early posts in this thread. However, I am glad to see that you are moving forward and still attempting to share your findings. Just because you are not receiving overwhelming support, does not mean that your actions are fruitless. PLZ, keep your chin up and enjoy the support of those they encourage you.

Sail on, as the Christopher Columbus of the Piranha Keeping Hobby, and venture forth into the unchartered waters of Serra Breeding!


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## Demon Darko

Spoken like a fricken poet LMAO.


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## Fishnut2

Thanks EZ and Demon,

My latest attempt is on day 3. I added some caves for the Elongs to hide, and this helped ease the agression. I've never seen them enter a cave, but the male hides along the side of one. I lost 4 of the 6 Elongs I had, but still have a M/F pair. I also froze a M/F, and I'm waiting to hear from Frank, to see if he wants to disect them. Unfortunately; I haven't seen any more pre-spawn activity. The only pre-spawn activity was seen (and filmed - 12 hours of Elong tape) on the 1st two attempts.
I also tried my 1st attempt with Rhoms yesterday. That lasted about an hour, before the activity got fairly intense. I seperated them so I have a shot with another attempt. No damage was done.

Rich


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## Guest

I find this all very interesting, please ignore negative comments and keep us posted. How big are the Rhoms and in what size tank are you putting them in?


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## Fishnut2

The Rhoms are 9" to 10" and have been in a partioned 125 for about 8 months. I know it's crazy, but I'm trying in the same 125. I don't have a choice, as that's my biggest tank. I have 7 of them (125s).


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