# I Watched A 5 Year Old Die Today



## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

We live on a busy road, a highway that goes through our small town of Oakley, MI. My mom was weeding the flowerbeds in the front yard when she heard screeching tires followed by a "boom". She came and got me and my dad and told us there was an accident after she looked down the road and saw 2 cars less than a quarter mile away. We hopped in the truck. We knew we had to see if we could go help.

The accident was a head on collision between a black Ford Ranger truck, and a red Grand Am or Grand Prix (not sure). I stayed in the truck. My mom and dad walked up there and checked it out, and talked to a few people standing around who had also stopped on the road to see if they could help. Then my dad jumped back in the truck and we went home real quick for towels. On the way home he told me about a boy in the back seat who was slunched over in the seatbelt and told me he thought he was already gone. I got lightheaded and just got a weird feeling.

I decided to go back with my dad to see if I could help. They pulled the boy out of the back window and layed him on the pavement. The paramedics were not even there yet. The police officer that was there checked for a pulse and performed CPR until the ambulances got there. My mom was taking care of the man in the vehicle (the driver and the boy's father). He had a nasty head wound and his wife, the passenger, was incoherent. She was bleeding even worse.

To make a really long and sad story short, the paramedics tried everything they could for about 20 mintues on the little boy. The dad was hysterical as he was just sitting against the car on the pavement watching. All I could do was stand and watch and hope for the best. 2 helicopters flew in from Saginaw, a big city about 1 hour from ours. A police lady made us go back to our vehicles because she said they didn't think he was going to make it and didn't want us to be there. My mom and I walked home and watched the helicopter carrying the little boy take off.

I watched the 6:00 news tonight, and he was pronounced dead on arrival. Only a 5 year old boy. It was by far the saddest thing I have ever seen thus far in my life. I keep having flashbacks of him hooked up to afribrilators and pumping his lifeless little chest up and down. If you have a young child, drive safe! Now you know what can still happen even when they are wearing a seatbelt.








~Taylor~


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

I'm glad you and your family were there and able to help, a tragic story indeed.


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## ___ (Feb 19, 2006)

oh man....very sad man

i just got the chills


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

that's terrible..


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

Very sad story. Not too many people experience that type of thing at all in their lives.
Death is a part of life though, and it's so sad


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

yeah this demonstrates how dangerous driving can be. The statistics are just ridiculous but people just don't think about that when they're in a car


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Wow - that's tragic.
I remember something similar happened to me when I was about 10 (4th grade). I was watching TV when I heard a screech followed by a boom. I wandered outside and onto the scene of a head-on collision. It was a car full of teenagers who had been drinking and they wandered out of their lane and struck an on-coming car.

The teenager in the back seat was unconscious. Paramedics arrived on the scene and performed CPR and took him away, but I found out the next day he was dead.

Nobody is guaranteed a long life, -just one life.


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## oscar119 (Nov 26, 2005)

very true no guarentee on how long your life is going to be and sometimes you may be fortunate to live into your 20's. Sucks what you saw but I'm sure you appreciate life alot more now.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

ur dad probably killed the kid by moving him

the reason firemen and paramedics take hours to pull trapped victims out of crushed cars isnt because they cant chop the car up fast enough.. its because they want to do it slowly to make sure that they can get the person out in a way that doesnt move em too much


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

jiggy said:


> ur dad probably killed the kid by moving him
> 
> the reason firemen and paramedics take hours to pull trapped victims out of crushed cars isnt because they cant chop the car up fast enough.. its because they want to do it slowly to make sure that they can get the person out in a way that doesnt move em too much


Another reason accident victims aren't pulled out of cars has to do with exacerbating back injuries and paralysis.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

yeh.. thats y they take them out slowly.. and they put a ton of braces on the guy before they even try moving him


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

The kid may have been gone already too, we just dont know enough.


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

acestro said:


> The kid may have been gone already too, we just dont know enough.


No, Jiggy knows everything...Just ask him He'll tell you .


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

DrZoidberg said:


> The kid may have been gone already too, we just dont know enough.


No, Jiggy knows everything...Just ask him He'll tell you .
[/quote]

oh...









Well, anyhow... sorry you had to see all that taylorh, that stuff never leaves the mind or heart. But I think the value of life is more real and precious to you once you witness such a thing.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

DrZoidberg said:


> The kid may have been gone already too, we just dont know enough.


No, Jiggy knows everything...Just ask him He'll tell you .
[/quote]

f*ck u blow me..

i was just saying that its not right to just go move someone like that.. i hope u try it, n permanently mess the guy up so he could sue the f*ck out of u n everyone u know..


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

jiggy said:


> The kid may have been gone already too, we just dont know enough.


No, Jiggy knows everything...Just ask him He'll tell you .
[/quote]

f*ck u blow me..

i was just saying that its not right to just go move someone like that.. i hope u try it, n permanently mess the guy up so he could sue the f*ck out of u n everyone u know..
[/quote]
Want to continue to hang around this site Jiggy? I would causion you to walk away from these posts if you can not control yourself.

A very tragic story...I had a hard time even opening this thread.


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## ___ (Feb 19, 2006)

i totaly understand what your saying jiggy but like said B4 we dont know enough to say his dad prob. killed him


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm thinking that the padded room is about to get crowded







How can people get rude in a thread like this


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## awfraser (May 13, 2006)

the only thing i can say id wow


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## KrazieFishie (Feb 25, 2006)

damn very sad that really hits home for me i got a 3 yro boy couldnt even imagine this happening.
so sad such a young precious life gone in a matter of minutes


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## Hemi (Nov 13, 2005)

taylor 
im sorry you had to live through something like that 
to not be involved it the hole thing 
and haven to deal with it 
is tuff

take it easy man


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Taylor,
You witnessed a truly tragic event. You and your family did everything they could for the family. 
Life is both beautiful and tragic. Why certain people would open their pie holes is beyond me. I had a smilimar experience years ago but it involved a kid and a car but it happened much the same way this one did. I can still see that kids face, his look... Stuff like that stays with you for a long time.


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## booozi (Nov 4, 2005)

THats so sad. never take like for granted.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

Bullsnake said:


> ur dad probably killed the kid by moving him
> 
> the reason firemen and paramedics take hours to pull trapped victims out of crushed cars isnt because they cant chop the car up fast enough.. its because they want to do it slowly to make sure that they can get the person out in a way that doesnt move em too much


Another reason accident victims aren't pulled out of cars has to do with exacerbating back injuries and paralysis.
[/quote]
When did I ever mentioned that my DAD took him out of the car? We were just pulling up in the truck, getting back from home for a few mintues for towels and they (other people who had stopped on the road to help) were getting him out. Now that I think about it, it might have been that police officer that pulled him out and performed CPR right away. Honestly, I can't remember for sure. My dad and I just stood back. A nurse happened to see the accident, so she told my mom to hold pressure on that guy's head wound while she checked the others.

Remember, I already said that my dad saw him in the car before we headed for home all slunched in the seatbelt, and he stated he thought he was already gone to me on the way home. I don't think them removing him from the car had anything to do with it. He probably suffocated in the slouched position....I don't want to think about it.

Thank you so much everybody for the sympathy. It isn't even anyone I know, and it's already had a huge impact on me. Now I just need to be strong and try to push it aside, because I have exams all this week. I will watch the news tonight as they said they would have more info, and I will post anything interesting or important that they mention.
~Taylor~


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## jaejae (Apr 16, 2005)

Hey Taylor,

I am truly sorry and I empathize with you. You see I can. I saw a black man shot to death right in front of me during some of the worst violence in South Africa's apartheid history. I know it wasn't a little 5 year old boy but it is nonetheless a horrible thing to see the life slowly pour out of someone's body. I was just 13 at the time and couldn't sleep for weeks afterwards. I just kept on seeing his back explode (he wasn't wearing a shirt, he was barechested) and then seeing him lying face down on the sidewalk, his body twitching as the blood drained from the hole in his back and the hole in his chest. Horrible....

It takes a while to get over it (to some extent) but we should never become desensitized to this kind of tragic death...

I hope you will feel better soon...My only wish is that there is some kinda better place waiting for us...it's something I would at least like to believe in. Anyway, I hope the little guy is there right now...

Jay


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## [email protected]° (Jun 16, 2004)

WOW.. Very sad story.

I hope the little boys family finds the strenth to make it through this dark period in thier lives. Losing a loved one a never an easy thing, but when it is such a young child with a whole life to live it is that much harder.


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

> ur dad probably killed the kid by moving him


Ignoring the insensitiveness of that post, what you said isn't necessarily true.

Before anyone reacts to my post, take into account I'm a st. John ambulance volunteer trained to just below EMT level and in a few months I'm hoping to start the course that will bring me up to an equivalent EMT level, so this post is from facts not just what people see on the television.

I'm assuming the people in attendance realised the kid had no signs of life before they moved him, and by moving him out of the car and starting CPR they gave him the best possible chance of survival. In that sort of situation airway and circulation takes priority over a possibly spinal injury. The emergency services will only take ages cutting someone from a vehicle if they know the patient is stable enough to survive the wait. The people who I would be most worried about immobilising would be the passengers, especially the dad who had already got out of the car.

From what little details there are in the rest of your post, it sounds like everything was done correctly. I think a moral of this story is something I feel strongly about, everyone should carry a good first aid kit and take a course so you know what to do PROPERLY.

I think the best thing for you to do now is to learn from what happened because the chances are you'll come across something like this during your life. Have you thought about writing a statement for the police? That often helps people clear their heads of they can work out exactly what happened and stop random bad thoughts racing through your head.

A slight sidetrack from this; A few days ago I was sat in a mates living room, who is also in st. John ambulance. We had just got back from a first aid duty, so we basically had the contents of an ambulance spread across the floor. We heard screeching of tyres so I had a quick look out the window, saw nothing so sat down again. A few minutes later we heard a siren getting closer and stop just up the road. It turns out I hadn't looked far enough up the road when I looked through the window. We loaded ourselves up with some equipment and walked up the road to see if we could help. A bloke had been run over but by this time two paramedic crews were on scene so we weren't needed, but things would have been a lot better if we had gone when it first happened as he received no aid from bystanders. It just goes to show things can happen when you least expect it!


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

Burf said:


> > ur dad probably killed the kid by moving him
> 
> 
> Ignoring the insensitiveness of that post, what you said isn't necessarily true.
> ...


exactly my point.. too many people try to be heros even though they dont know what the hell they r doing.. just like people that witness a robbery or something n they try n save the day n end up getting shot


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

> exactly my point.. too many people try to be heros even though they dont know what the hell they r doing.. just like people that witness a robbery or something n they try n save the day n end up getting shot


Thats not really my point though, unless you do something really, really dumb its quite hard to make a casualty worse. Mose of the time only a small amount of first aid can be a huge help.


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## the one (May 13, 2006)

Thats a sad story


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Burf said:


> > ur dad probably killed the kid by moving him
> 
> 
> Ignoring the insensitiveness of that post, what you said isn't necessarily true.
> ...


Excellent post.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Burf said:


> > exactly my point.. too many people try to be heros even though they dont know what the hell they r doing.. just like people that witness a robbery or something n they try n save the day n end up getting shot
> 
> 
> Thats not really my point though, unless you do something really, really dumb its quite hard to make a casualty worse. Mose of the time only a small amount of first aid can be a huge help.


You beat me to it Burf...great post. Jiggy does not know what he is talking about. It does not take them hours to get someone out. There is something called the golden hour and it is imperative that you get the person out and to the hospital within that time frame when they are critcally ill.

You have to weigh if the risk of causing more damage is overridded by the desire to save the persons life...and the people around did the right thing. The paramedics would not have taken someone without a pulse and taken the time to extracate, board and brace the entire scene.

Sorry you had to go through that...thanks for taking the time to help out. The world needs more people like you and your family.

Way to go Jiggy!


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

doesnt take them hours?.. u obviously dont know what u r talking about.. or u dont have many car accidents out in east bumblefuck.. im talking about car crashes, not fender benders or horse n buggy axles breaking.. a friend of mine was hit by someone at the races, and his car was crinkled up like an accordian.. and it took them 3.5 hours to cut the doors and roof off using the jaws of life..


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

jiggy said:


> doesnt take them hours?.. u obviously dont know what u r talking about.. or u dont have many car accidents out in east bumblefuck.. im talking about car crashes, not fender benders or horse n buggy axles breaking.. a friend of mine was hit by someone at the races, and his car was crinkled up like an accordian.. and it took them 3.5 hours to cut the doors and roof off using the jaws of life..


God, what would this forum be w/o you man.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

jiggy said:


> doesnt take them hours?.. u obviously dont know what u r talking about.. or u dont have many car accidents out in east bumblefuck.. im talking about car crashes, not fender benders or horse n buggy axles breaking.. a friend of mine was hit by someone at the races, and his car was crinkled up like an accordian.. and it took them 3.5 hours to cut the doors and roof off using the jaws of life..


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Do you know what I did before I became a pastor? I was a paramedic. Do you know what I do now that I am a pastor? I work with the local Police and Fire Dept. as a Chaplain and I respond to calls to comfort the family members as they are WORKING ON EXTRICATION! I have seen more accident scenes than you could ever dream of...

You are so full of crap. There is no way with the jaws of life that they took 3.5 hours to cut your friend out of the car. First of all, the jaws of life are used to cut the A, B, and C post of the car and to cut secondary metal impact. There is another tool that is used for standard metal cutting and it cuts through metal like butter. Any good team can have a car torn to shreds and have the victim out in less than 20 mins. What the heck...3.5 hours







You are such a liar! Who was doing the extrication? A bunch of mimes?









I just looked up a study and the national average time on the scene of a car accident needing exrication is 86 minutes (which is about an hour and a half from time of arrival till time of departure) with the extrication taking NO MORE than 28-46 minutes depending on the severity of the damage and the equiptment that is at hand to be used (not all fire departments have all the top notch extrication equiptment) Don't believe me...google it my friend.

You know...it might do you well to KNOW what you are talking about before making crap up and posting it like you have a basis of knowledge.

3.5 hours


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

It's a horrific scene to be involved in a serious car accident that results in death.It haunts for years and is something you never forget. 
I'm very sorry that your family had to see this but glad at the same time that you stepped up to help when others would have ignored the whole thing.

Pastor Jeff, thank you for your insighfull post based on* facts * and *experience* ..


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> doesnt take them hours?.. u obviously dont know what u r talking about.. or u dont have many car accidents out in east bumblefuck.. im talking about car crashes, not fender benders or horse n buggy axles breaking.. a friend of mine was hit by someone at the races, and his car was crinkled up like an accordian.. and it took them 3.5 hours to cut the doors and roof off using the jaws of life..


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Do you know what I did before I became a pastor? I was a paramedic. Do you know what I do now that I am a pastor? I work with the local Police and Fire Dept. as a Chaplain and I respond to calls to comfort the family members as they are WORKING ON EXTRICATION! I have seen more accident scenes than you could ever dream of...

You are so full of crap. There is no way with the jaws of life that they took 3.5 hours to cut your friend out of the car. First of all, the jaws of life are used to cut the A, B, and C post of the car and to cut secondary metal impact. There is another tool that is used for standard metal cutting and it cuts through metal like butter. Any good team can have a car torn to shreds and have the victim out in less than 20 mins. What the heck...3.5 hours







You are such a liar! Who was doing the extrication? A bunch of mimes?









I just looked up a study and the national average time on the scene of a car accident needing exrication is 86 minutes (which is about an hour and a half from time of arrival till time of departure) with the extrication taking NO MORE than 28-46 minutes depending on the severity of the damage and the equiptment that is at hand to be used (not all fire departments have all the top notch extrication equiptment) Don't believe me...google it my friend.

You know...it might do you well to KNOW what you are talking about before making crap up and posting it like you have a basis of knowledge.

3.5 hours































[/quote]

i was there when it happened.. they had to bring in firetrucks and the jaws of life was attached to a firetruck by some hydraulic hose or something.. it was at 4am.. there was time for my friends to come to pick me up and his parents to come.. and we live 45 minutes away from where we race..

just cuz u were a paramedic doesnt mean youve seen every situation.. u act like ur some sort of authority about this telling me this and that like you know ALL the facts.. when a person is pinched underneath the seat and the steering column, it will not take 20 minutes to get him out.. it would take more than 20 minutes to cut all that sh*t apart on a regular car, forget about it in a car that is mangled..


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Hey Jeff, can I come visit you in East Bumblefuck? Sounds like a nice place :laugh:

Honestly tho jiggy, cmon...People dont try to be heros, they react on instinct because there is NOTHING at all worse in this world then seeing someone in excrutiating pain, whether its mental or physical. Anyone would with a speck of compassion in thier heart would have done the same. Its one thing to try and pull someone out of a car when they are pinned and crushed in an accordian type crash, its another to try and save the live of a dying 5 year old boy.


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

may his soul rest in piece


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## Winkyee (Feb 17, 2003)

jiggy said:


> doesnt take them hours?.. u obviously dont know what u r talking about.. or u dont have many car accidents out in east bumblefuck.. im talking about car crashes, not fender benders or horse n buggy axles breaking.. a friend of mine was hit by someone at the races, and his car was crinkled up like an accordian.. and it took them 3.5 hours to cut the doors and roof off using the jaws of life..


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Do you know what I did before I became a pastor? I was a paramedic. Do you know what I do now that I am a pastor? I work with the local Police and Fire Dept. as a Chaplain and I respond to calls to comfort the family members as they are WORKING ON EXTRICATION! I have seen more accident scenes than you could ever dream of...

You are so full of crap. There is no way with the jaws of life that they took 3.5 hours to cut your friend out of the car. First of all, the jaws of life are used to cut the A, B, and C post of the car and to cut secondary metal impact. There is another tool that is used for standard metal cutting and it cuts through metal like butter. Any good team can have a car torn to shreds and have the victim out in less than 20 mins. What the heck...3.5 hours







You are such a liar! Who was doing the extrication? A bunch of mimes?









I just looked up a study and the national average time on the scene of a car accident needing exrication is 86 minutes (which is about an hour and a half from time of arrival till time of departure) with the extrication taking NO MORE than 28-46 minutes depending on the severity of the damage and the equiptment that is at hand to be used (not all fire departments have all the top notch extrication equiptment) Don't believe me...google it my friend.

You know...it might do you well to KNOW what you are talking about before making crap up and posting it like you have a basis of knowledge.

3.5 hours































[/quote]

i was there when it happened.. they had to bring in firetrucks and the jaws of life was attached to a firetruck by some hydraulic hose or something.. it was at 4am.. there was time for my friends to come to pick me up and his parents to come.. and we live 45 minutes away from where we race..

just cuz u were a paramedic doesnt mean youve seen every situation.. u act like ur some sort of authority about this telling me this and that like you know ALL the facts.. when a person is pinched underneath the seat and the steering column, it will not take 20 minutes to get him out.. it would take more than 20 minutes to cut all that sh*t apart on a regular car, forget about it in a car that is mangled..
[/quote]

Dude , 
You're the master of *acting* like some sort of authority in every situation regardless of the facts..


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## diceman69 (Apr 30, 2004)




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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

jiggy said:


> i was there when it happened.. they had to bring in firetrucks and the jaws of life was attached to a firetruck by some hydraulic hose or something.. it was at 4am.. there was time for my friends to come to pick me up and his parents to come.. and we live 45 minutes away from where we race..
> 
> just cuz u were a paramedic doesnt mean youve seen every situation.. u act like ur some sort of authority about this telling me this and that like you know ALL the facts.. when a person is pinched underneath the seat and the steering column, it will not take 20 minutes to get him out.. it would take more than 20 minutes to cut all that sh*t apart on a regular car, forget about it in a car that is mangled..


No it doesn't...it NEVER takes three hours to cut a guy out of a car. Your a moron. Amazing how the statistics say one thing and Jiggy sticks with his story.

Ain't NO extrication that takes 3.5 hours. Keep defending your stance...


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> You are so full of crap. There is no way with the jaws of life that they took 3.5 hours to cut your friend out of the car. First of all, the jaws of life are used to cut the A, B, and C post of the car and to cut secondary metal impact. There is another tool that is used for standard metal cutting and it cuts through metal like butter. Any good team can have a car torn to shreds and have the victim out in less than 20 mins. What the heck...3.5 hours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


a sawzaw..and no way it takes 4 hours to peal the top off of any vehicle, 2 sawzaws 2 people one on either side should take no longer then 5-10 minutes tops, either way, even if you were even close to being right higgy your an assrock for telling this kid his father probably killed him..


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

taylorhedrich- Damn man. i sincearly feel for you and having to go thru witnessing such a tragic event. I hope your heart and soul heal quickly. Have comfort that the child didn't suffer a long painfull death and that his trip to heaven was a quick one.

Jiggy- Thank you for turning a thread that should have been one of compassion and mourning into one of arguments and insults. Way to go there. You might do well to just stop posting on this one. Obviously there are people participating that have alot more 1st hand knowlage on the subject then your single expearance and what you see on TV have taught you. Take a slice of humble pie and chow down. It's not so bad when you get past the taste of shoe.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Liquid said:


> just cuz u were a paramedic doesnt mean youve seen every situation.. u act like ur some sort of authority about this telling me this and that like you know ALL the facts..


Um, he is an authority and not the only authority that commented on this. You strike me as the kind of guy that loses at checkers and then challenges a guy to a death match on the street. Give it up dude. You've got bling, girls, cars, cash..... where'd the brains go?


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Taylor - How is your dad doing with all this?


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

> taylorhedrich- Damn man. i sincearly feel for you and having to go thru witnessing such a tragic event. I hope your heart and soul heal quickly. Have comfort that the child didn't suffer a long painfull death and that his trip to heaven was a quick one.


Ditto,

This thread isn't the place for arguments, I'll start another "first aid" thread for these comments to continue in.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> doesnt take them hours?.. u obviously dont know what u r talking about.. or u dont have many car accidents out in east bumblefuck.. im talking about car crashes, not fender benders or horse n buggy axles breaking.. a friend of mine was hit by someone at the races, and his car was crinkled up like an accordian.. and it took them 3.5 hours to cut the doors and roof off using the jaws of life..


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Do you know what I did before I became a pastor? I was a paramedic. Do you know what I do now that I am a pastor? I work with the local Police and Fire Dept. as a Chaplain and I respond to calls to comfort the family members as they are WORKING ON EXTRICATION! I have seen more accident scenes than you could ever dream of...

You are so full of crap. There is no way with the jaws of life that they took 3.5 hours to cut your friend out of the car. First of all, the jaws of life are used to cut the A, B, and C post of the car and to cut secondary metal impact. There is another tool that is used for standard metal cutting and it cuts through metal like butter. Any good team can have a car torn to shreds and have the victim out in less than 20 mins. What the heck...3.5 hours







You are such a liar! Who was doing the extrication? A bunch of mimes?









I just looked up a study and the national average time on the scene of a car accident needing exrication is 86 minutes (which is about an hour and a half from time of arrival till time of departure) with the extrication taking NO MORE than 28-46 minutes depending on the severity of the damage and the equiptment that is at hand to be used (not all fire departments have all the top notch extrication equiptment) Don't believe me...google it my friend.

You know...it might do you well to KNOW what you are talking about before making crap up and posting it like you have a basis of knowledge.

3.5 hours































[/quote]


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

This is a touchy subject. No matter who does extrication, they must be at the MINIMUM First Responder certified as scene size up and patient triage MUST come before cutting the car.

Also, NFPA books state that the team cutting the care MUST perform all the techniques of extrication which includes and is not limited to stabilization cutting AND MOST IMPORTANTLY removing the patient from the vehicle and transfering to EMS transport crew. It is not proper or recommended that EMS crew who are not extrication trained enter the vehicle or remove the patient. Fire personnel who do extrications only like cutting and destoying thinigs but when it comes to the patient - they ignore them completely and let someone else treat and extract the patient. This is not proper procedure.

In addition, ONLY medically trained ppl should be in charge of the extrication including making decisions about how to cut the car. Medically trained rescuers know the patients conditions and will know the best way to help the person get removed. Many fire guys just like to CUT CUT CUT and have no clue about patient needs. This is a serious problem and major liablity.

Also, removing a person from a car is the same principal from removing a person who fell down a flight of stairs. It is up to the medical team (EMS) to decide how to remove the person and use the right equipment to remove them. This includes using stair chairs, reeves, stokes, cutters for chains wrapped around a person, AND the use of jaws.

Further - the fire department MUST have adequate fire suppression personnel and equipment ready BEFORE they even think of cutting a car. Many fire departments who do extrications forget their main function of fire suppression and just focus on cutting a car up. Then they turn around and there aren't enough fire suppression vehicles or equipment avaiable. THEN all the firefighters are doing the cut and not manning their fire suppression stations.

The only reason many fire departments have been stealing Rescue services from EMS is because many fire departments are fire districts and have the money to afford the equipment that, in a bad economy, many local EMS and rescue squads can't afford due to low donations. It's simple economics. Another reason, is that as fire prevention has gotten better, many fire departments don't fight as many fires, and they need something new to do. And lastly, firefighters love to cut, break, destroy, and show off and be in charge. They like glory and destruction. They are ego ppl who want the thrill of the cut but don't want to all the steps of extrication. They only like the cut part and hate the patient care.

Remember - the team working on the extrication itself must do patient care THEN transfer to EMS transport team. If fire departments were forced to do extrications correctly - they'd give it up real quickly when the realize they have to actually do patient care and REMOVE the patient entirely.

There is tons more info...

^ taken from a firefighter/ems forum.. 
yeh im sure it takes 20 minutes to stabilize the guy inside by getting all the neck braces and what not on him, assess how to go about cutting the car apart, doing it, and getting the guy out without hurting him :







: 
im sure u could cut the roof off in 20 minutes, but like i said, how about mangled doors, steering columns, seats,..etc.

pastor.. the guys that u worked with r obviously those guys that just cut sh*t apart and like to get it over with without worrying about the well being of the person/people inside.. use common sense, 20 fuckin minutes to cut a car apart!?!

i dunno what kinda rescue work u were doing dude.. probably cutting kittens out of gutters


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

jiggy said:


> Also, NFPA books state that the team cutting the care MUST perform all the techniques of extrication which includes and is not limited to stabilization cutting AND MOST IMPORTANTLY removing the patient from the vehicle and transfering to EMS transport crew. It is not proper or recommended that EMS crew who are not extrication trained enter the vehicle or remove the patient. Fire personnel who do extrications only like cutting and destoying thinigs but when it comes to the patient - they ignore them completely and let someone else treat and extract the patient. This is not proper procedure.
> 
> In addition, ONLY medically trained ppl should be in charge of the extrication including making decisions about how to cut the car. Medically trained rescuers know the patients conditions and will know the best way to help the person get removed. Many fire guys just like to CUT CUT CUT and have no clue about patient needs. This is a serious problem and major liablity.
> 
> ...


alright there doogie, still doesn't explain why when alls said and done, you go out of your way to tell a kid that his pops killed the kid







think about it for a second..


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

just my way of saying that ur not supposed to move someone if something like that happens.. if they die, thats the best thing that could happen to u, cuz if they live and can prove that u caused some permanent damage, youre done.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

jiggy said:


> just my way of saying that ur not supposed to move someone if something like that happens..* if they die, thats the best thing that could happen to u* , cuz if they live and can prove that u caused some permanent damage, youre done.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

yeh, if u move them.. unless you wanna lose everything u own, and still be in debt for the rest of your life.. not only that, your kids will probably be in debt even when u die..

people win millions of dollars over these 'lead based paint' lawsuits.. imagine paralyzing someone cuz u tried getting them out of a car or something..


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

jiggy said:


> yeh, if u move them.. unless you wanna lose everything u own, and still be in debt for the rest of your life.. not only that, your kids will probably be in debt even when u die..


First of all, their family can sue for punitive damages you even after they die and you stand to lose a whole hell of a lot more money

Second of all, your kids won't be responsible for what you owe.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2006)

Im so happy jiggy isnt one of our local paramedics :laugh:

This belongs in Burf's new thread tho. There was nothing Taylors dad could have done, and its honourable of him to let his heart out and comfort this child as he died.


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

jiggy said:


> just my way of saying that ur not supposed to move someone if something like that happens.. if they die, thats the best thing that could happen to u, cuz if they live and can prove that u caused some permanent damage, youre done.


Please people, put thist sort of post in the new thread i started


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Good idea Burf!


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

Anyone who sits here and says it can take 3.5 hours to cut someone out of a car has no idea what the hell they are talking about. Anyone with serious injries would already be dead to start with, and Pastor Jeff said pretty much everything else there is to say. Im not going to get into the whole "authority" thing, but my dad was an EMT-I and Fire Rescue worker for 18 years, so Ive seen/ heard plenty of things.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> Taylor - How is your dad doing with all this?


Being a loving, caring father of five I know it hurt him inside, but being the man that he is, he did what he could and then didn't say much after. He went back to work on some stuff outside at home. My mom and I didn't really know how to act at first, and we had to talk to about 10 or 15 people on our walk about home. They were stopped on the side of the road, and they were curious like all of us when there is an accident.

When we got home we planted a garden in our front sideyard. It was peaceful and quiet since the traffic was being directed, and there were no cars on our road. It was calming.

Thanks for all of the concern. I never expected this from P-Fury. To be honest, I really only expected a few replies since I wrote so much. I didn't think everyone would want to read that much. I know I don't sometimes.

Thanks for making the other thread Burf, so people can carry on their childish ways there.








~Taylor~


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## piranhasrule (May 31, 2004)

Taylor I cant even begin to imagine what you and your family have gone through. I recently had to cope with the death of a neighbour. It was pretty hard at first as he's been part of my life for as long as I can remember. God knows what I'd be like if I'd seen death like you've seen. It really helped both myself and my family and other neighbours by just spending time talking about him though. But I guess you cant really do that, seeing as you dont know the victim(s)


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## sccavee (Feb 11, 2003)

Very tragic incident and you and your family did what was right.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Burf said:


> > taylorhedrich- Damn man. i sincearly feel for you and having to go thru witnessing such a tragic event. I hope your heart and soul heal quickly. Have comfort that the child didn't suffer a long painfull death and that his trip to heaven was a quick one.
> 
> 
> Ditto,
> ...


Way to go!

Taylor, p-fury is a weird place. You can feel goofy, disconnected, angry, touched, or neutral about this site. With time you begin to realize how real the people are, it's interesting and odd all at once. Time heals everything. If your dad did all he could then it's just a lesson in how fragile life is in my opinion. He probably cares for you are your well-being more than ever!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

piranhasrule said:


> Taylor I cant even begin to imagine what you and your family have gone through. I recently had to cope with the death of a neighbour. It was pretty hard at first as he's been part of my life for as long as I can remember. God knows what I'd be like if I'd seen death like you've seen. It really helped both myself and my family and other neighbours by just spending time talking about him though. But I guess you cant really do that, seeing as you dont know the victim(s)


No, I don't know him. I did find out his name though, Josh Garcia, but I still don't know where he is from. The news said that they are under the impression that it was the black truck that swerved into the lane of the red car. However, when we got there, the people in the black truck were swearing and saying that the red car swerved into their lane. The police and examiners and everybody had the road shut down for about 4 hours, so they must have gotten a pretty good idea who was responsible. That or it was a hard decision, and that's why it took so long. Either way, it doesn't matter.....unless alcohol was involved. If alcohol was involved the people that were stupid enough to be drive should be responsible for his death, and I firmly stand by that. It would be a sad story if the father was under the influence and killed his own innocent son who had no choice but to ride in the car with them at that age.







I won't jump to conclusions though, now I'm just blabbering. 
~Taylor~


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

acestro said:


> Taylor, p-fury is a weird place. You can feel goofy, disconnected, angry, touched, or neutral about this site. With time you begin to realize how real the people are, it's interesting and odd all at once. Time heals everything. If your dad did all he could then it's just a lesson in how fragile life is in my opinion. He probably cares for you are your well-being more than ever!


Well said...very well said.

Taylor, know that alot of people would stand around going "Oh my God! What should I do?!?" but very few people have the heart like your Dad to do what he did. Very good man and I don't even know him that well. Integrity comes out...like with your Dad.

I am sorry that you had to experience what you did, but I am so glad you got to see the heart of your father during an event like that.

Hang in there. If this gets heavy on your heart, make sure you talk to your parents or toss up another thread here on P-Fury. Or if you need anything, any one of us would be willing to listen via PM. So don't be afraid to shoot us a PM anytime!


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

PastorJeff said:


> Taylor, p-fury is a weird place. You can feel goofy, disconnected, angry, touched, or neutral about this site. With time you begin to realize how real the people are, it's interesting and odd all at once. Time heals everything. If your dad did all he could then it's just a lesson in how fragile life is in my opinion. He probably cares for you are your well-being more than ever!


Well said...very well said.

Taylor, know that alot of people would stand around going "Oh my God! What should I do?!?" but very few people have the heart like your Dad to do what he did. Very good man and I don't even know him that well. Integrity comes out...like with your Dad.

I am sorry that you had to experience what you did, but I am so glad you got to see the heart of your father during an event like that.

Hang in there. If this gets heavy on your heart, make sure you talk to your parents or toss up another thread here on P-Fury. Or if you need anything, any one of us would be willing to listen via PM. So don't be afraid to shoot us a PM anytime!









[/quote]
Thanks again. That's a very nice offer, but you are all not understanding me! My dad WASN'T one of the people to take the child out of the vehicle. He was in the truck with me, just getting out with some towels in his hands as the OTHER people were getting him out.

*Jiggy*, you didn't even read my first post clearly. Go back and read it, then tell me where it mentions my dad pulling little Josh out of the car. He didn't. The lady there directing it all was an off duty paramedic who stopped to help, so she was probably the one that told them to take him out of the car.

I don't want to get in an argument, I just wanted to let you know you were rattling your mouth off when you didn't even know what you were talking about, when I made it all clear in the first post I made.








~Taylor~


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

jiggy said:


> just my way of saying that ur not supposed to move someone if something like that happens.. if they die, thats the best thing that could happen to u, cuz if they live and can prove that u caused some permanent damage, youre done.


youd make a great lawyer..


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

*M-52 crash kills 5-year-old boy*
Monday, June 05, 2006
LaNIA COLEMAN
THE SAGINAW NEWS

_Cindy Hedrich said her heart felt like it was breaking Sunday after a head-on crash killed a 5-year-old boy near her home.

"It didn't look bad from my home," said Hedrich, who lives about a quarter-mile from the scene on M-52, the boundary between Chesaning and Brady townships.

"I was working in the flower garden when I heard a short screech and a boom. It didn't sound that bad._

_"My husband (Tom) and I drove down there and, as we got closer, I was afraid of what I was about to see. It was awful. The only thing left of the vehicles was the back."

Saginaw County crash investigators this morning continued to sort out the details of the collision, which killed Joshua Garcia, said Sheriff Charles L. Brown.

The wreck also sent four adults to mid-Michigan hospitals.

"It really was a bad one," said Sheriff's Lt. Bill Gutzwiller.

Investigators said a northbound car, which neighbors described as a Pontiac Grand Am, collided with a southbound Ford Ranger pickup about 1 p.m. on M-52 near Ferden.

Preliminary evidence suggests the crash occurred in the southbound lane, but neighbors said the vehicles came to a stop in the middle of the road.

The Hedriches were the first nearby residents to arrive. _

_"One of the ladies who saw it happen stopped to help," Cindy Hedrich said. "She happened to be a nurse, so she was telling me what to do. I was holding compresses on their heads. My husband went home and got cold towels. We tried to do what we could.

"The man from the car was delirious. He kept asking, 'How's my boy?' I said he was fine but at that time, I had no idea. Then he would ask, 'How did it happen? Who was at fault?' He kept asking the same questions over and over, and I didn't know what to tell him."

Hedrich said the driver of the car had a deep cut on his head. _

_"The one lady was in awful shock," she said. "She kept fighting the paramedics.

"And all those emergency medical people ... they worked on that little boy continuously. They worked and worked on him. They did all kinds of things. No one at the time said that he had died, but I kind of thought so because the medical crews did so much, and he didn't move."

Jack Fickies, a nearby resident who spent 10 years as an Owosso police detective, said damage to the vehicles was some of the worst he's seen.

"It was a terrible scene," Fickies said. "I walked up there but a sheriff's deputy told me to go back home, they didn't want any gawkers. I saw one man lying on his back and someone was giving him CPR, and another gentleman was sitting up with a neck brace on. Then two helicopters came in, and they loaded up the patients and took off."

Investigators would not release details about the boy or the names or conditions of the injured.

The people traveling in the car live in Saginaw County. The occupants of the truck are Shiawassee County residents.

Crash investigators closed M-52 and Ferden for nearly four hours while they tried to sort out what happened in the moments before the collision. v

LaNia Coleman covers law enforcement. Call her at 776-9690. _


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

Liquid said:


> We live on a busy road, a highway that goes through our small town of Oakley, MI. My mom was weeding the flowerbeds in the front yard when she heard screeching tires followed by a "boom". She came and got me and my dad and told us there was an accident after she looked down the road and saw 2 cars less than a quarter mile away. We hopped in the truck. We knew we had to see if we could go help.
> 
> The accident was a head on collision between a black Ford Ranger truck, and a red Grand Am or Grand Prix (not sure). I stayed in the truck. My mom and dad walked up there and checked it out, and talked to a few people standing around who had also stopped on the road to see if they could help. Then my dad jumped back in the truck and we went home real quick for towels. On the way home he told me about a boy in the back seat who was slunched over in the seatbelt and told me he thought he was already gone. I got lightheaded and just got a weird feeling.
> 
> ...


u mention ur dad going to get towels to help the people or whatever.. then u talk about 'they' pulling him out of the car, and the paramedics not being there yet..


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

jiggy said:


> We live on a busy road, a highway that goes through our small town of Oakley, MI. My mom was weeding the flowerbeds in the front yard when she heard screeching tires followed by a "boom". She came and got me and my dad and told us there was an accident after she looked down the road and saw 2 cars less than a quarter mile away. We hopped in the truck. We knew we had to see if we could go help.
> 
> The accident was a head on collision between a black Ford Ranger truck, and a red Grand Am or Grand Prix (not sure). I stayed in the truck. My mom and dad walked up there and checked it out, and talked to a few people standing around who had also stopped on the road to see if they could help. Then my dad jumped back in the truck and we went home real quick for towels. On the way home he told me about a boy in the back seat who was slunched over in the seatbelt and told me he thought he was already gone. I got lightheaded and just got a weird feeling.
> 
> ...


u mention ur dad going to get towels to help the people or whatever.. then u talk about 'they' pulling him out of the car, and the paramedics not being there yet..
[/quote]
My bad. I can see what you mean about that. Just for the record, "they" were the other people that had also pulled off to the side of the road.


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

My statement stands. Your mom and dad did a great job. Not alot of people would step up to help like that.


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## tunaman (Mar 6, 2003)

apparently nobody here has kids.

I got 2 boys of my own, 2 years and 2 months. NOTHING....... and I mean nothing in the world is more precious than them. Im not really sure how to cope with that loss.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

jiggy said:


> We live on a busy road, a highway that goes through our small town of Oakley, MI. My mom was weeding the flowerbeds in the front yard when she heard screeching tires followed by a "boom". She came and got me and my dad and told us there was an accident after she looked down the road and saw 2 cars less than a quarter mile away. We hopped in the truck. We knew we had to see if we could go help.
> 
> The accident was a head on collision between a black Ford Ranger truck, and a red Grand Am or Grand Prix (not sure). I stayed in the truck. My mom and dad walked up there and checked it out, and talked to a few people standing around who had also stopped on the road to see if they could help. Then my dad jumped back in the truck and we went home real quick for towels. On the way home he told me about a boy in the back seat who was slunched over in the seatbelt and told me he thought he was already gone. I got lightheaded and just got a weird feeling.
> 
> ...


u mention ur dad going to get towels to help the people or whatever.. then u talk about 'they' pulling him out of the car, and the paramedics not being there yet..
[/quote]

For those who are mentally challeneged I will give you the link. 
post here.....


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