# shark aquarium wonder fish



## NEKMEK (Nov 20, 2005)

View attachment 94875








anybody out there... that missed to see sharkaquarium wonder piranha,
i attached a copy of him...a real beauty.

NEKMEK


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## peeteyPee (Jan 21, 2006)

wow, thats a nice piranha.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> NEKMEK Posted Today, 02:12 PM
> View attachment 94875
> 
> anybody out there... that missed to see sharkaquarium wonder piranha,
> i attached a copy of him...a real beauty.


NEKMEK

Nice photo, reminds me of this.


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

That is an awesome fish. One of the coolest I've seen. I hope somebody from the forum purchases it. Thanks for posting the pictures of it, because George had taken the picture out of the thread talking about it by the time I got there.








~Taylor~


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## NEKMEK (Nov 20, 2005)

i guess you must have had this pic first...it surely gets around!!!
NOW LET'S CUT THE BULL,..AND LET SEE SOME REAL ONES INSTEAD OF PHOTOS.

NEKMEK


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Sorry Taylor...that is not a picture of the actual fish. The posted picture was taken from Franks website and the credit for the photo removed....for some unknown reason.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Sorry Taylor...that is not a picture of the actual fish. The posted picture was taken from Franks website and the credit for the photo removed....for some unknown reason.


because a certain sponsor doesnt want his venezualan supplier known.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Ex0dus Posted Today, 04:10 PM
> QUOTE(Grosse Gurke @ Feb 18 2006, 07:02 PM)
> 
> Sorry Taylor...that is not a picture of the actual fish. The posted picture was taken from Franks website and the credit for the photo removed....for some unknown reason.
> ...


Whether or not that is true, lets not get into the politics of it. Point is, this is a beautiful species and should be made available to hobbyists. No matter where it comes from via dealers or whole sellers.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > Ex0dus Posted Today, 04:10 PM
> > QUOTE(Grosse Gurke @ Feb 18 2006, 07:02 PM)
> >
> > Sorry Taylor...that is not a picture of the actual fish. The posted picture was taken from Franks website and the credit for the photo removed....for some unknown reason.
> ...


Agree 100% frank. Your views on $400-500 for this species?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Its worth is what you are willing to pay to have it. It is presently a rare species in the hobby. So make your own determination on cost & value to you.


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

I dont like it that much so I would only pay 30 bucks for it. Well how big is it?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

hastatus said:


> Its worth is what you are willing to pay to have it. It is presently a rare species in the hobby. So make your own determination on cost & value to you.


rarity in hobby means little. Whats the rarity of the particular fish in the wild?


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## chomp chomp (Oct 28, 2003)

very nice fish indeed.. I wish I had one


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## bmpower007 (Feb 11, 2005)

Very Nice fish, I wonder if they can be shoaled together.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Ex0dus Posted Today, 04:53 PM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Feb 18 2006, 07:42 PM)
> 
> Its worth is what you are willing to pay to have it. It is presently a rare species in the hobby. So make your own determination on cost & value to you.
> ...


Then it doesn't really matter one way or the other does it? If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.


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## jamesdelanoche (Dec 15, 2004)

nevermind i don't think what i said contributed


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

hastatus said:


> > Ex0dus Posted Today, 04:53 PM
> > QUOTE(hastatus @ Feb 18 2006, 07:42 PM)
> >
> > Its worth is what you are willing to pay to have it. It is presently a rare species in the hobby. So make your own determination on cost & value to you.
> ...


Afording it has nothing to do with it. I simply asked ya is you considered it rare in the wild? 
"rarity in the hobby' - meaning in home aquarium. What does that rarity really mean? In the numismatic field we have a term for this, condition rarity.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Ex0dus Posted Today, 06:53 PM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Feb 18 2006, 09:49 PM)
> 
> QUOTE
> ...


There is nothing scientifically to suggest it is rare or not rare. It is a relatively new species with little on record concerning it. So your question cannot be answered here.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

As far as price goes...rarity in the hobby dictates price more than in the wild.


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

Alright guys man, Its a rare piranha no matter how you look at it. It rare everywhere. Ill pay 30 dollars. You pay 400 dollars. It doesnt matter it cool looking. You guys are debating over the meaning of the word RARE instead of appreciating that george posted a pic of this "new" species to some of us who have never seen it.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> As far as price goes...rarity in the hobby dictates price more than in the wild.


How so? If demand is high and supply is high, they will import the fish somehow. UNLESS theres some reason as to why the fish cant be exported causing infalted prices.

Next question. What is the definition of rarity in terms of fish keeping?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

You can make things as complicated as you want...but if someone posted a 20" rhom for sale....people would be willing to pay a large price. Why? Because it is not found in the hobby...not because it is not found in the wild. If you could go down to petco and pick up a 20" rhom...do you really think it would be as expensive?

I think the economics are pretty easy when it comes to this hobby. Demand is dictated more by rarity in the in the home aquarium..or importation....and less by rarity in the wild.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> You can make things as complicated as you want...but if someone posted a 20" rhom for sale....people would be willing to pay a large price. Why? Because it is not found in the hobby...not because it is not found in the wild. If you could go down to petco and pick up a 20" rhom...do you really think it would be as expensive?
> 
> I think the economics are pretty easy when it comes to this hobby. Demand is dictated more by rarity in the in the home aquarium..or importation....and less by rarity in the wild.


a 20" rhom imo is a condition rarity. A rhom is a rhom. 
Lets talk more in term or absolute rarity vs condition rarity. 
Let me relate this to my other hobby. I collect coins. Rarity is jugged on a scale R1-R9. 
R1 being very commen
R9 being unknown or unique. 
You can have a 1875 seated dime , which in itself is a common date, but say in MS68, it would be a condition rarity. On the other hand you can have a 1874--c which is terms woudl be absolute rarity, R7 in all grades.


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## sharkfan (Oct 22, 2004)

What would be funny if George has 1000 of em.. then not so rare by anyones definition..lol.. Anyway what is this guy related to.. what Genus?


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## Fresh2salt (Jul 16, 2004)

Thats one badAss Piranha


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## oscared15 (Feb 3, 2006)

wow that awesome


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I understand what you are saying Exodus...but we are also talking about a relatively selective hobby. Not like collecting coins. Also, in this hobby..a rhom is not a rhom. If only it were that simple. Rhoms are prices based on the rarity of that particular variant (blue diamond, Venezuelan, etc...) and size. A 6" rhom will not sell for the same price as a 14" rhom of the same variant. So your example of a rhom is a rhom doesnt apply to this hobby. So the fact that his fish has not been seen in the hobby...as far as I know..make it more valuable then a maculatus or nattereri. As far as price...it will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for a fish that no one else has...which as has been proven over and over on this site can be a lot.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

I know there are diffrent varients of rhoms, but when broken down its a rhom. I think we can all agree tho that a rhom, not matter what kind, is not 'rare'. Im just trying to figure out how a fish is thought to be rare in the hobby. Is there some sort of marker? Geryi are, from what I can tell from one area in Brasil. Are they rare? What defines them as being rare if so?


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## TripDs (Oct 11, 2004)

Ex0dus said:


> I know there are diffrent varients of rhoms, but when broken down its a rhom. I think we can all agree tho that a rhom, not matter what kind, is not 'rare'. Im just trying to figure out how a fish is thought to be rare in the hobby. Is there some sort of marker? Geryi are, from what I can tell from one area in Brasil. Are they rare? What defines them as being rare if so?


come on man. what are you trying to debate. yes, any type of rhom...is a rhom....like any type of dog....is still a dog. but does it not make sense that a larger rhom costs more than a smaller rhom? that different species of things cost varying amounts. a poodle is more expensive than a mutt. clearly not many people over here can get their hands on a geryi or the pristobrycon, so in the fish hobby, it is a rare species to obtain. and therefore it is more expensive than "normal." i think it makes sense.


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## blindside (Mar 25, 2005)

it certainly is a rare piranha, there is talk of a possible few of the species being available in the near future over here in the UK. lovely colours

ian


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## steve1337 (Oct 25, 2005)

If it shoals then it would be more desireable to me. It doesnt look like a badass solitary fish like a rhom. But even if it does shoal it is still out of the question for most people because of the price.

as for the rarity argument. I think that the statement "The market price of a fish is mostly determined by consumer demand and quantity of importation." would be agreeable to both sides...

There must be tons of 12"+ rhoms in the wild. BUT not many of them are imported compared to 3" rhoms because it costs alot more to import a fish of that size. It is probobly harder to gather from the wild also. Also wholesalers cant be stuck housing hundreds of 12"+ rhoms.

Now that fish doesnt look very big to me. And if they are easily gathered and imported then I would say that the price is rediculous. The only reasons for a price that high would then be: Only a small amount was important to test consumer reaction. So at this time quantities are very limited. The other reason would have to be greed. The wholesaler or retailer is taking advantage of the fact that this "rare" fish will cause alot of excitement and since there is almost no information about them consumers cant make an educated purchase. Either way both reasons stem from the fact that someone is trying to run a profitable business. And you cant fault someone for that.


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## JorgeRemigio (Mar 31, 2005)

nice looking fish!


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## Slim (Jan 9, 2005)

If youve never seen it before, Its rare to you.


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## NEKMEK (Nov 20, 2005)

calm down people!!
if this handsome fish is hard to come by, us hardcore piranha enthusiasts if we want one we'll have to pay the price.....that is part of the fun in fish keeping!
peace!!
NEKMEK


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

TripDs said:


> I know there are diffrent varients of rhoms, but when broken down its a rhom. I think we can all agree tho that a rhom, not matter what kind, is not 'rare'. Im just trying to figure out how a fish is thought to be rare in the hobby. Is there some sort of marker? Geryi are, from what I can tell from one area in Brasil. Are they rare? What defines them as being rare if so?


come on man. what are you trying to debate. yes, any type of rhom...is a rhom....like any type of dog....is still a dog. but does it not make sense that a larger rhom costs more than a smaller rhom? that different species of things cost varying amounts. a poodle is more expensive than a mutt. clearly not many people over here can get their hands on a geryi or the pristobrycon, so in the fish hobby, it is a rare species to obtain. and therefore it is more expensive than "normal." i think it makes sense.
[/quote]

wtf are you talking about? Im not looking to debate anything. Just want GGs thoughts on 'rarity' when talking about fish.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Grosse Gurke said:


> As far as price goes...rarity in the hobby dictates price more than in the wild.


Yep, some fish might be abundant in the wild but problems with shipping/catching/staying alive in captivity.

The reason why the high price tag, name one person on this site that has one. Name one person in real life that has one in the US or Canada.

The fish looks sweet, and it is very rare in the hobby (or at least this board and other forums). It is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

The Rhom example, look at the different variations of rhoms:
Black Piranha -> Peru Rhom, Jet-Black Rhom, Xingu Rhom, High back Rhom (if still used), Venezuelan Rhom, White Piranha, Black Diamond Piranha, Gold Diamond, Blue Diamond, etc....

Now if an importer would bring in all these fish at the exact same size, lets say 12 inches. Which would be the most expensive? 
A few conditions would apply here: Location of the fish (easy to obtain to get to exporter, how abundant are the fish at the size, how many exporters are shipping the fish, how good the exporter is at shipping the fish, how rare the fish is in the hobby, how rare the fish is in the wild, how well the fish does with shipping. etc (Plus a million more reasons)


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

itz a stolen photo!


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## Gigante Pirana (Apr 23, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> As far as price goes...rarity in the hobby dictates price more than in the wild.


Yep, some fish might be abundant in the wild but problems with shipping/catching/staying alive in captivity.

The reason why the high price tag, name one person on this site that has one. Name one person in real life that has one in the US or Canada.

The fish looks sweet, and it is very rare in the hobby (or at least this board and other forums). It is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

The Rhom example, look at the different variations of rhoms:
Black Piranha -> Peru Rhom, Jet-Black Rhom, Xingu Rhom, High back Rhom (if still used), Venezuelan Rhom, White Piranha, Black Diamond Piranha, Gold Diamond, Blue Diamond, etc....

Now if an importer would bring in all these fish at the exact same size, lets say 12 inches. Which would be the most expensive? 
A few conditions would apply here: Location of the fish (easy to obtain to get to exporter, how abundant are the fish at the size, how many exporters are shipping the fish, how good the exporter is at shipping the fish, how rare the fish is in the hobby, how rare the fish is in the wild, how well the fish does with shipping. etc (Plus a million more reasons)
[/quote]

I can't name you anyone either that has one in North America! However, Oliver did bring 6 of them over the past 3 years. I don't know who eventually bought them, but, more than likely some hobbyist overseas. They do have a high sticker price relative to the size of fish and that was probably the reason I declined to buy any at the time.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Gigante Pirana said:


> As far as price goes...rarity in the hobby dictates price more than in the wild.


Yep, some fish might be abundant in the wild but problems with shipping/catching/staying alive in captivity.

The reason why the high price tag, name one person on this site that has one. Name one person in real life that has one in the US or Canada.

The fish looks sweet, and it is very rare in the hobby (or at least this board and other forums). It is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

The Rhom example, look at the different variations of rhoms:
Black Piranha -> Peru Rhom, Jet-Black Rhom, Xingu Rhom, High back Rhom (if still used), Venezuelan Rhom, White Piranha, Black Diamond Piranha, Gold Diamond, Blue Diamond, etc....

Now if an importer would bring in all these fish at the exact same size, lets say 12 inches. Which would be the most expensive? 
A few conditions would apply here: Location of the fish (easy to obtain to get to exporter, how abundant are the fish at the size, how many exporters are shipping the fish, how good the exporter is at shipping the fish, how rare the fish is in the hobby, how rare the fish is in the wild, how well the fish does with shipping. etc (Plus a million more reasons)
[/quote]

I can't name you anyone either that has one in North America! However, Oliver did bring 6 of them over the past 3 years. I don't know who eventually bought them, but, more than likely some hobbyist overseas. They do have a high sticker price relative to the size of fish and that was probably the reason I declined to buy any at the time.
[/quote]

There are only a few people I would think that would try to get one of those. You, Harley, Wes, nubsmoke, and a few other people I would think would try/or would spend the money to get one. I knew the other guys didn't have one, wasn't sure about you. I think you currently have just the one large rhom?


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## Piranha King (Nov 28, 2002)

Ex0dus said:


> I know there are diffrent varients of rhoms, but when broken down its a rhom. I think we can all agree tho that a rhom, not matter what kind, is not 'rare'.


i disagree with you. 
wes,


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## Wussola (Jan 25, 2006)

One please!


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

PIRANHA KING said:


> I know there are diffrent varients of rhoms, but when broken down its a rhom. I think we can all agree tho that a rhom, not matter what kind, is not 'rare'.


i disagree with you. 
wes,
[/quote]

Wes, then we can agree to disagree. There are geoghaphic variants, same species. Or are you disagreeing that 'rhoms' arnt rare? If you disagree to that, care to enlighten me as to what rhom varient you woudl consider rare and why.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

There are rhom variants that would be considered rare in the hobby. But you cant just consider the variant but the size as well. I am yet to see a true Venezuelan rhom at 16". I would bet that a fish like this would fetch a much higher price than a 16" rhom that has been in the hobby for a while. There are more variables in this hobby then your other hobby Exodus...first it is a rhom, then it is a local variant, then you have to consider rarity of that variant in the hobby, and lastly the size of the fish. When you consider all these different variables...you will get the price of the fish.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Grosse Gurke said:


> There are rhom variants that would be considered rare in the hobby. But you cant just consider the variant but the size as well. I am yet to see a true Venezuelan rhom at 16". I would bet that a fish like this would fetch a much higher price than a 16" rhom that has been in the hobby for a while. There are more variables in this hobby then your other hobby Exodus...first it is a rhom, then it is a local variant, then you have to consider rarity of that variant in the hobby, and lastly the size of the fish. When you consider all these different variables...you will get the price of the fish.


hmmm not to sure about that gg. Strike, eye appeal... many many factors that equal price w/ coins.









Again tho gg, when you are talking about size of the fish you are talking codition rarity. Lets not focus on size. Im not debating the rarity of the fish that was posted. I know NOTHING about it. Its a nice looking fish, just not something I would be interested in owning. Then again im really not interested in large rhoms. Each his own


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## Piranha King (Nov 28, 2002)

you don't understand. saying size doesn't make something rare you are way off. it's like saying a misprint coin doesn't count as rare.
wes


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

As I stated before in another topic about this fish...Its an abseloute beauty...Something deftinitely unique and something I have never seen. To me and alot of us...This fish is considered rare...Because we have never seen it...But anyways...I would like to see if it can shoal...or if it is solitary...But either way...Its a beautiful specimen.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

PIRANHA KING said:


> you don't understand. saying size doesn't make something rare you are way off. it's like saying a misprint coin doesn't count as rare.
> wes


Yep, this is one hobby where size does matter. Plenty of people have 3-5 inch Manni's, but how many have one 12+ inches? 14 inches? I think there are 2, Harley (12 inch) and nubsmoke (14 inch).

What about pirayas? Somewhat rare in the LFS sense. Plenty of people have them here from 2 inches - 12 inches. But how many have one above 14-16 inches? How many people have 1 over 19 inches? Wes (frankenstein 19 inches). Why does this piraya come with a hefty price tag? Its rare to see that size fish in the hobby. Thats why.

With rhoms there are different variants and rarity:
Peru Rhoms (dime a dozen, even at 12+ inches)
Black Diamonds (quite a few, even at 10+ inches)
"Gold" Diamond (one large one, quite a few small ones)
"Blue" Diamond (a few 8 inches)
Brazil Rhoms (quite a few)
Jet Black Rhoms (a few)
Ven Rhoms (a few small ones, very few large ones, waiting on a big boy myself)
etc


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## brutusbeefcake (Dec 8, 2004)

yeah someone is reading into what "rare" means a little bit i think? is there a true definition? idk? ive got a 10" vinny whom i think is pretty damn rare but yet im sure hes not according to exodus because there just so common in south america???? get off it man, seems noone agrees


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

brutusbeefcake said:


> yeah someone is reading into what "rare" means a little bit i think? is there a true definition? idk? ive got a 10" vinny whom i think is pretty damn rare but yet im sure hes not according to exodus because there just so common in south america???? get off it man, seems noone agrees


way to bring up old threads. 
No, I dont think its common because its found in abundance in the amazon. I think its common cause its found in abundance all over. When you throw size into the equation you are taking away the abbsolute rarity and placing condiotional rarity on an item. 
Is a 16" Ven rhom rare? Maybe, but in the end its still just a ven rhom....


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## brutusbeefcake (Dec 8, 2004)

way to bring up old threads. 
No, I dont think its common because its found in abundance in the amazon. I think its common cause its found in abundance all over. When you throw size into the equation you are taking away the abbsolute rarity and placing condiotional rarity on an item. 
Is a 16" Ven rhom rare? Maybe, but in the end its still just a ven rhom....

[/quote]

just noticed this was an "old" thread... sorry dude i dont live on this board, if its on the top and i havent seen it....its new to me(whats it matter anyways?), and i must say you might be the ONLY one on this board that thinks a vinny is common................oh well?


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

oh well


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## Wussola (Jan 25, 2006)

Beautiful P! Sweet fish to have!!


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## divinelawyer625 (Dec 12, 2005)

Bad a$$ fish.


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