# Debris in the tank...



## karmatic1110 (Jun 25, 2006)

I have 2 Emperor 400s on my 75g tank with 5 2 inch Red Bellies. I've noticed that even though I am changing out 25% of the water every 2 days that the water is still not crystal clear. I can see tiny pieces of food floating that give the water a minor haze.

I am very careful when feeding and my water chemistry is perfect. Any ideas?


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

karmatic1110 said:


> I have 2 Emperor 400s on my 75g tank with 5 2 inch Red Bellies. I've noticed that even though I am changing out 25% of the water every 2 days that the water is still not crystal clear. I can see tiny pieces of food floating that give the water a minor haze.
> 
> I am very careful when feeding and my water chemistry is perfect. Any ideas?


I keep African Cichlids and have a similia issue. From my understanding they are very messy eaters, my tank has 21 mid to large sized fish so I find it strange that with just the 2 your still getting this haze.. What are you feeding them?

Sorry this is an edit... I just realized it was 5 2 inch red bellies... I do a 25% water change every 2 - 4 days depending on my motivation and my friends have commented on the tank looking slightly cloudy. It looks very clean but has that little bit of cloudiness; just enough to catch your eye. It seems the more I keep up with the water changes the better it gets. How old is your carbon?


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## karmatic1110 (Jun 25, 2006)

Scooby said:


> I keep African Cichlids and have a similia issue. From my understanding they are very messy eaters, my tank has 21 mid to large sized fish so I find it strange that with just the 2 your still getting this haze.. What are you feeding them?
> 
> Sorry this is an edit... I just realized it was 5 2 inch red bellies... I do a 25% water change every 2 - 4 days depending on my motivation and my friends have commented on the tank looking slightly cloudy. It looks very clean but has that little bit of cloudiness; just enough to catch your eye. It seems the more I keep up with the water changes the better it gets. How old is your carbon?


I feed them half a shrimp once a day and an Algae Wafer or a few pellets in the morning. I take it out after an hour or so. I cut the carbon out of my filter pads and use them without any.


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

the probalem is probably your filters. get rid of the marineland/ tetratec filters, and get an aquaclear. or if you have the money to spend, go with a big canister (fx5. a little overkill, but when you upgrade tanks, you will be able to use it still).
i hve a single ac110 on both an overstocked cichlid tank, and a jaguar breeding tank, ant they are spotless.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

karmatic1110 said:


> I have 2 Emperor 400s on my 75g tank with 5 2 inch Red Bellies. I've noticed that even though I am changing out 25% of the water every 2 days that the water is still not crystal clear. I can see tiny pieces of food floating that give the water a minor haze.
> 
> I am very careful when feeding and my water chemistry is perfect. Any ideas?


Are you doing weekly or bi weekly gravel washes along with your waterchanges.
If not this could be your problem because p's can kick up dust off your gravel.


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## karmatic1110 (Jun 25, 2006)

Feefa said:


> Are you doing weekly or bi weekly gravel washes along with your waterchanges.
> If not this could be your problem because p's can kick up dust off your gravel.


Yup. I actually vacuum (I have sand) everytime I do a waterchange. So that would be a full vac 2 or 3 times a week.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

exodon king said:


> the probalem is probably your filters. get rid of the marineland/ tetratec filters, and get an aquaclear. or if you have the money to spend, go with a big canister (fx5. a little overkill, but when you upgrade tanks, you will be able to use it still).
> i hve a single ac110 on both an overstocked cichlid tank, and a jaguar breeding tank, ant they are spotless.


 you probably advertise more for aquaclear then they do.

The emps are fine. i do like ac better, but that doesnt mean emps are a good choice too. You could feed every couple of days if you wanted to. make sure you dechlorinate the water so you dont kill off bacteria in the filters. Just try to increase gravel vas a bit for a week. In emps can you get refillable cartriges? If you, i would put like 2 in each (i know penguins can allow you to use 2 in each) i would put some filter floss in one and a mech pad in the other.


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

i dont advertise anything. i advise people to go with a much better product based on my years of experience with them, and comparison experiance with many other filters. i get nothing from suggesting these filters. the only one who gains from it is the buyer.

i had a tank running emp400s and changed them to an ac110. as soon as i turned on the ac110, you could clearly see a ton of extra debris being pulled up from the substrate. the extra 100gph makes a HUGE difference. not to mention the fact you can add 100x more media to the aquaclear basket, and it will actually be put to use, unlike the refillable cartridge that you get with the marineland filter. 
the design only uses a portion of the filter media at a time (because it pushes from the bottom back of the filter to the top front. that flow only makes use of a fraction of the bio/mech media at a time. only after the initial contact area becomes clogged and unusable does the rest get used.) where as the aquaclear system pushes from the bottom, THROUGH all the media. you get full contact with all the media at all times.

but thats neither here nor there. the point is, the added 100gph of the aquaclear HOB results in more suction at the intake (removing quite a bit more debris/ detrius), and a stronger "waterfall" at the slide (loosening debris from the gravel with the added flow)

if i still had any marineland filters lying around i would gladly do a demonstration, however i dont, and will never again own one of those filters. the only way to tell is to try it for yourself. 
you wont be sorry.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

exodon king said:


> i dont advertise anything. i advise people to go with a much better product based on my years of experience with them, and comparison experiance with many other filters. i get nothing from suggesting these filters. the only one who gains from it is the buyer.
> 
> i had a tank running emp400s and changed them to an ac110. as soon as i turned on the ac110, you could clearly see a ton of extra debris being pulled up from the substrate. the extra 100gph makes a HUGE difference. not to mention the fact you can add 100x more media to the aquaclear basket, and it will actually be put to use, unlike the refillable cartridge that you get with the marineland filter.
> the design only uses a portion of the filter media at a time (because it pushes from the bottom back of the filter to the top front. that flow only makes use of a fraction of the bio/mech media at a time. only after the initial contact area becomes clogged and unusable does the rest get used.) where as the aquaclear system pushes from the bottom, THROUGH all the media. you get full contact with all the media at all times.
> ...


I have an ac 110 and 2 other smaller ac's as well as a couple marineland filters. IMO its a bit over the top to suggest spending 50-100$ for an ac 110 or two when he already has two working emp 400's. If he were to be asking which to buy sure, but theres no reason he needs to replace his current filters as they should be adequet along with maitence


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

exodon king said:


> the probalem is probably your filters. get rid of the marineland/ tetratec filters, and get an aquaclear. or if you have the money to spend, go with a big canister (fx5. a little overkill, but when you upgrade tanks, you will be able to use it still).
> i hve a single ac110 on both an overstocked cichlid tank, and a jaguar breeding tank, ant they are spotless.


haha damn dude still going on with it! i hear ya! the problem ISNT your filters i promise you that! i've had EMP 400's for a long ass time now, never had a problem i do like the AC's as well but never ever had a problem with the EMP400's now the penguin 150's i'm not a fan of but that's another story.

oh and i got a 75G with 2 EMP400's and a 55G with a EMP400 and a penguin 150 for over 4 years now and my water is crystal clear (no carbon etc, only filter floss) i just recently got another 55G with one EMP400 and a AC110 and crystal clear water in that too!


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> I have an ac 110 and 2 other smaller ac's as well as a couple marineland filters. IMO its a bit over the top to suggest spending 50-100$ for an ac 110 or two when he already has two working emp 400's. If he were to be asking which to buy sure, but theres no reason he needs to replace his current filters as they should be adequet along with maitence


im not suggesting spending anything. i started with GET RID of the substandard filters. by selling them, even second hand, you will make up most of the money to purchase 2 ac110s, or more than enough to purchase one (which will still do a much better job then the 2 emperors. i have done this personally, and have seen the result first hand.)

its obvious that the filters ARE NOT "adequet" (bahahahahahha) and that the "maitence" (hahahhahah again. seriously dude?) is not doing the job. rather then suggesting more WC weekly to make up for the useless filters, which ultimately will get dropped back down to the 1 hes already doing, it makes more sense to upgrade to a better filter system that fits your budget, does a MUCH better job, and does not require you to increase your WC/ maintenance regimen to something you can not keep up with.

i used the emperor filters exclusively before the aquaclears. but after using the later, i saw how much of a vast improvement it made, and dont waste my money on emperors any more.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

you should only have to do a 20-30% waterchange a week MAX! i do mine 20% every week and a half and it's crystal


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

thats not true. it all depends on the stock you keep. while standard should be 25-30% weekly, an overstocked tank will call for more, and a less stocked tank could go with less (though i do not personally suggest doing less then 25-30% weekly in any situation.)
then theres growout tanks which use up to 50% DAILY wc to help increase growth rate.


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

No0dles said:


> you should only have to do a 20-30% waterchange a week MAX! i do mine 20% every week and a half and it's crystal


All Depends on your city's water parameters. I have to do 2 a week. 20 cichlids plus 1 pleco in a 90 gal = Messy eating crap factory. I have one EX70 for my 90 and it's doing an ok job. I'm getting a 2nd one as my lfs has em for 50% off. Carbon = Water clarity so if your not using it, it will help.


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

mech media = water clarity. (filter floss, filter pads, poly fill/ ect)
carbon is only used for removing chemicals and some toxins.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

exodon king said:


> I have an ac 110 and 2 other smaller ac's as well as a couple marineland filters. IMO its a bit over the top to suggest spending 50-100$ for an ac 110 or two when he already has two working emp 400's. If he were to be asking which to buy sure, but theres no reason he needs to replace his current filters as they should be adequet along with maitence


im not suggesting spending anything. i started with GET RID of the substandard filters. by selling them, even second hand, you will make up most of the money to purchase 2 ac110s, or more than enough to purchase one (which will still do a much better job then the 2 emperors. i have done this personally, and have seen the result first hand.)

its obvious that the filters ARE NOT "adequet" (bahahahahahha) and that the "maitence" * I think they might be if the tank perameters are perfect and not just an assumption made instead of testing, If there are no toxins (ammonia , no2 and limited no3) then the filters are doing their jobs. Clarity is for viewers not the fish. Like you said you just need some fine mech media*(hahahhahah again. seriously dude?) is not doing the job. rather then suggesting more WC weekly to make up for the useless filters, which ultimately will get dropped back down to the 1 hes already doing, it makes more sense to upgrade to a better filter system that fits your budget, does a MUCH better job, and does not require you to increase your WC/ maintenance regimen to something you can not keep up with.

i used the emperor filters exclusively before the aquaclears. but after using the later, i saw how much of a vast improvement it made, and dont waste my money on emperors any more.
[/quote]


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

exodon king said:


> mech media = water clarity. (filter floss, filter pads, poly fill/ ect)
> carbon is only used for removing chemicals and some toxins.


In aquariums, carbon's chief role is to tie up the chemicals that cause discoloration and odors, which are then removed from the system periodically as the carbon is discarded.


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## karmatic1110 (Jun 25, 2006)

After paying attention to the filters over the last few days, I honestly think that they lack the suction to pull in the amount of debris caused by my fish. I find that they holes in the end piece are far too small to pick up much of anything.

EDIT: It looks like I may have fixed the problem. I dropped the water level by a few inches and did a 25% water change. I may have had my water filled too high. This also caused my RBPs to be far less skittish it seems and they are swimming all over the tank. As long as I don't make any sudden movements they are fine









My water is crystal clear now.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

also carbon is a form of mechanical filtration


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

as carbon is generally held in a bag, it does not act as a mechanical filter. if you throw it in your filter loosely, it does nothing more then throwing gravel in there. not to mention, if youu put it in the back chamber of one of those useless marineland HOB filters, it does NOTHING, as no water passes through it.


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## novajaymes (May 30, 2008)

when I up graded my tank I had the same problem and I fixed it by adding a magnum 350 with micro polish cartrige for water calrity.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

exodon king said:


> as carbon is generally held in a bag, it does not act as a mechanical filter. if you throw it in your filter loosely, it does nothing more then throwing gravel in there. not to mention, if youu put it in the back chamber of one of those useless marineland HOB filters, it does NOTHING, as no water passes through it.


well the 44square inch poly fiber pad is most of the mechanical filtration and the carbon is more of the chemical filtration yes but water DOES flow through the carbon, maybe not as efficient as it could be but saying no water passes through it is not true. and i still personally think emp400's far exceed a AC110







hahaha even though they both have their advantages and disadvantages and one cant ever be better than the other. it's all about your setup and what your want.


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## Plum (May 4, 2006)

too much reading for a simple answer IMO.

Get a better filter.

HOB's are mickey mouse if you ask me.


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## No0dles (Dec 16, 2003)

here exodon king i made a thread for you and my cousin haha

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=184132



Plum said:


> too much reading for a simple answer IMO.
> 
> Get a better filter.
> 
> HOB's are mickey mouse if you ask me.


well nobody asked you haha and they aren't mickey mouse you just gotta know what your doing


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## exodon king (Mar 25, 2009)

No0dles said:


> as carbon is generally held in a bag, it does not act as a mechanical filter. if you throw it in your filter loosely, it does nothing more then throwing gravel in there. not to mention, if youu put it in the back chamber of one of those useless marineland HOB filters, it does NOTHING, as no water passes through it.


well the 44square inch poly fiber pad is most of the mechanical filtration and the carbon is more of the chemical filtration yes but water DOES flow through the carbon, maybe not as efficient as it could be but saying no water passes through it is not true. and i still personally think emp400's far exceed a AC110







hahaha even though they both have their advantages and disadvantages and one cant ever be better than the other. it's all about your setup and what your want.
[/quote]

Apparently you don't understand anything about the design of either of these filters. Allow me to explain.
The emperor filter dumps the intake in the main filter chamber behind the slots for the cartridges. Because of the placement of the intake dump and the slide, the cartridge use is not maximized like it needs to be, and any other media placed behind the cartridges becomes just about useless. So your media volume is minimal and limited to those cartridges.
The aquaclear filters intake dump is at the bottom of the filter chamber below a suspended media basket building pressure below the basket and forcing the water through all the media for 100% contact with the medi regimen of your custom design. This design along with 100gph higher rating absolutely makes it a much better filter. 
Also the aquaclear filters are much more reliable. My oldest filter is 8 years old, but I have spoken to people who have had their AC500s running over 15 years. You will NEVER see that with an emperor. And do you know how many filter cartridges you would need to buy in that amount of time?HUNDREDS. Meanwhile with the aquaclear you have to buy a new filter maybe every 5 years.

And that's just the beginning of the list. 
Really, the facts speak for themselves. The only thing better about the emperor is the price. But you know what they say...
You get what you pay for.

(sorry in advance for any typos and mistakes. I'm posting from my phone)


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## Plum (May 4, 2006)

No0dles said:


> too much reading for a simple answer IMO.
> 
> Get a better filter.
> 
> HOB's are mickey mouse if you ask me.


well nobody asked you haha and they aren't mickey mouse you just gotta know what your doing









[/quote]

lol

They might be alright for a nice commonity tank - maybe some guppies, but for a predator tank - I think there are much better options out there.

Wet dry being the obvious choice, and if you are not able to do that, you can rig up a canister filter in multiple ways to provide you with superioir filtration compared to these HOB's.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

exodon king said:


> as carbon is generally held in a bag, it does not act as a mechanical filter. if you throw it in your filter loosely, it does nothing more then throwing gravel in there. not to mention, if youu put it in the back chamber of one of those useless marineland HOB filters, it does NOTHING, as no water passes through it.


well the 44square inch poly fiber pad is most of the mechanical filtration and the carbon is more of the chemical filtration yes but water DOES flow through the carbon, maybe not as efficient as it could be but saying no water passes through it is not true. and i still personally think emp400's far exceed a AC110







hahaha even though they both have their advantages and disadvantages and one cant ever be better than the other. it's all about your setup and what your want.
[/quote]

Apparently you don't understand anything about the design of either of these filters. Allow me to explain.
The emperor filter dumps the intake in the main filter chamber behind the slots for the cartridges. Because of the placement of the intake dump and the slide, the cartridge use is not maximized like it needs to be, and any other media placed behind the cartridges becomes just about useless. So your media volume is minimal and limited to those cartridges

The aquaclear filters intake dump is at the bottom of the filter chamber below a suspended media basket building pressure below the basket and forcing the water through all the media for 100% contact with the medi regimen of your custom design. This design along with 100gph higher rating absolutely makes it a much better filter. .* Going by what you said, ac's arnt 100% efficient then since the water is also going into the chamber from the side. There is no different if its going throught horizontally or vertically either way more water will go through the closer area to the source assuming the resistance is equal across. Therefore neither is 100% efficient. And again your using an extra 100gph as a benifit when the filters arnt even recomended for the same tank size. Emp 400's are for 80 gals mx and ac 500's are for 110g. Thats a 30g difference. And i dont know about you, but on a 30 gal tank you should have more then 100gph therfore for each gal its recomended to filter the emp has more flow. Emp = 5gph/g
ac500= 4.5gph/g. Therfore you cannot compare apples and oranges unless you give them a common ground. *

Also the aquaclear filters are much more reliable. My oldest filter is 8 years old, but I have spoken to people who have had their AC500s running over 15 years. You will NEVER see that with an emperor. And do you know how many filter cartridges you would need to buy in that amount of time?HUNDREDS. Meanwhile with the aquaclear you have to buy a new filter maybe every 5 years.

And that's just the beginning of the list. 
Really, the facts speak for themselves The only thing better about the emperor is the price. But you know what they say...
You get what you pay for.

(sorry in advance for any typos and mistakes. I'm posting from my phone)
[/quote]


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