# CrocKeeper



## You

ok my little brothers were at my grandparents and they came back with a rat snake its about 1.5 to 2 feet long but the thing is the people that live next to my grandparents were mowing their lawn and got the snake its not as bad as it could have been but its sides are all fucked up right now we have it in a 10 gal with a head rock but all it does is sit there what should i feed him and what can i do to make his wounds heal faster

ps if pics needed then i will have to have some one host it for me


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## Burf

I think u'll be able to host them on this site. 
As far as i know, there isnt anything special to feed it that would make it heal faster, but you should treat the wounds with vetadine. You should also keep the tank as clean as possible, this means it would be best to use paper towels as a substrate, as they can easly changed. I think the snake would feel safer if it had somthing to hide in in the tank.

What i have written was very basic, but croc keeper should be able to tell you what to do more accurately.


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## Innes

yes use your gallery to host pics, or add them to the bottom of your posts


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## acestro

That snake isn't going to have much of an appetite for a good week or so, I'd imagine. Betadyne (I can't remember the exact spelling) is great, go with hydrogen peroxide if you need to treat him quickly. A choice between heat and cool and a hiding place and sterility (as mentioned) are all important.


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## Black-Phoenix

I would advise you to take the heat rock out for a coupple reasons. It could easaly burn it self on it, particularly with its open wounds. It also may make the 10gal too warm. What temp is your house? 65-75 is fine for a rat snake and a small undertank heat pad or lamp will run ya $10.

Make shure there is a shallow water dish that is always clean. Also any feseas should be delt with fast as rolling in poop with open cuts is not a smart thing. Finally I would put the snake in a low trafic area with some hidey holed in the tank. small boxes will work well. Wild animals are VERY skittsh and can stress very easy with human contact.


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## CrocKeeper

Everybody has given good sound advice so far.

Phoenix makes a point that can not be over emphasized with the heat rock and with the fact that this wild snake really will VERY easily stress out and it is imperative to allow it access to a good hide box.

To reiterate the points already made but essential...

1. Substrate needs be an easily removed clean substance. In this issue I would probably go with newsprint. NOT newspaper, the paper used to print newspapers BEFORE they print on it....go to you local paper and ask for an end cut of newsprint and explain why you need it and they will give it to you for free...

2. Heat rock BAD! The heat rock was a brilliant idea imagined by someone who was obviously not a biologist. They are horrible horrible solutions for heat. Buy a heat lamp from the local hardware store, with the metal dome and a red-bulb, 100 watts should do ya, place it at one end of the tank, and adjust it for height until the enclosure floor directly underneath the bulb reads a consitant 80 degrees farenheit.
The other end will stay cooler and you shou place the hide box toward the cooler end.

3. Keep water in with it at all times, and change it daily keeping it clean and fresh. You can buy solutions such as novalsan at Co-ops, or tractor supplie stores, or feed stores for washing the enclosure out and washing the water bowl in.

4. If you are going to dress the wounds of the snake with anything after washing it with other than dawn soap and water, I would advise betadine or any other iodine type wash at your local pharmacy, perhaps you could ask a local vet to give you some.

5. Leave it alone, DO not handle the snake, and do not worry about food at this time, give it a couple of weeks of quiet and good clean water, the warmer temps will help boost its metabolism and keep the body working overtime to heal as quick as it can....as long as the tearing in the skin has not occured on the ventral scutes the skin will heal, slowly and probably will scar but it will heal, if the ventral scutes were compromised then you should seek veterinary help. The ventrals do not heal when cut.

Keep us posted.


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## SERRAPYGO

> . Heat rock BAD! The heat rock was a brilliant idea imagined by someone who was obviously not a biologist. They are horrible horrible solutions for heat.


Why is that CK? I never use them as a primary heat source but I do like them as secondary. Problems?


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## You

thanks for all the advice i will post pics asap


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## You

sorry for the darkness


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## You

lol sorry for the brightness


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## You

cage


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## Burf

Serrapygo said:


> . Heat rock BAD! The heat rock was a brilliant idea imagined by someone who was obviously not a biologist. They are horrible horrible solutions for heat.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that CK? I never use them as a primary heat source but I do like them as secondary. Problems?
Click to expand...

 they get very hot, and can cause severe burns to the reptile. As CK said, they are a great idea but havnt been designed very well.

That setup looks good as a hospital viv, but would be too small too keep it in perminantly. Are you looking to keep it as a pet or release it when its healed?


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## You

probably release it when he is fully healed


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## Burf

Thats good, would of had to make an anti wild collected pets speach otherwise.









I think the all you can do now is cross your finger and hope for the best, goodluck!!


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## CrocKeeper

What is wrong with wild collected pets?
Where the heck do you think captive collections originated?
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wild collected captives, and in fact they are essential to the ultimate diversity needed to maintain healthy diversified genetic lines IN captivity.

Ok I will stop tub thumbing......









Heat rocks bad for many reasons, especially with saurians... their whole system is not designed to heat from ventrally (the belly up), but rather dorsally (from the top down). The result is many deep nasty thermal burns to the animals in enclosures using "heat rocks". If you wish, use an under tank heater it is just as simple, and much safer.. but ceramic heat emmitters and lamps are better alternatives....


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## SERRAPYGO

> Heat rocks bad for many reasons, especially with saurians... their whole system is not designed to heat from ventrally (the belly up), but rather dorsally (from the top down). The result is many deep nasty thermal burns to the animals in enclosures using "heat rocks". If you wish, use an under tank heater it is just as simple, and much safer.. but ceramic heat emmitters and lamps are better alternatives....


Many herps in the wild lie on sun heated rocks. What's the difference? In 30 yrs of on and off herp keeping I never had a problem with hot rocks but, I'm always open to new thoughts.


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## Burf

CrocKeeper said:


> What is wrong with wild collected pets?
> Where the heck do you think captive collections originated?
> There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wild collected captives, and in fact they are essential to the ultimate diversity needed to maintain healthy diversified genetic lines IN captivity.
> 
> Ok I will stop tub thumbing......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heat rocks bad for many reasons, especially with saurians... their whole system is not designed to heat from ventrally (the belly up), but rather dorsally (from the top down). The result is many deep nasty thermal burns to the animals in enclosures using "heat rocks". If you wish, use an under tank heater it is just as simple, and much safer.. but ceramic heat emmitters and lamps are better alternatives....:nod:


I understand the need for wild collected pets, but I think that wild collected should only be kept by breeders, for breeding. The animals you find in pet stores should be captive bred. I think this because wild collected have the increased risk of parasites and are harder to tame down. 
I suppose what im really trying to say people shouldnt go out, pick an animal out of the wild and keep it.

_*edit:*_ I just re-read that and realised it makes me sound like an anti. before you worry, its just my view on WC versus CB


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## CrocKeeper

> Many herps in the wild lie on sun heated rocks. What's the difference? In 30 yrs of on and off herp keeping I never had a problem with hot rocks but, I'm always open to new thoughts.


YES, the point exactly! In the wild the sun radiates from ABOVE and heats the lizard in the wild dorsally, the rock below the lizard is actually cool because the lizards body blocks the sun from reaching it.....all of the lizards sensory perception telling it it is now too hot operates on this basis....









On the WC CB issue...

It is obviously best to go with captive animals. They are hardier, generally speaking parasite and disease free, and are definately acclimated to a captive environ.

I agree people should think long and hard before obtaing a wild collected animal, and should be willing to take steps nessecary for their healthy acclimitization to a captive condition. Their should be restrictions as far as what can be collected, when, and how many, without out doubt. I just want to make it clear that out-right banning of collection is dangerous to the well being of captive collections, and the rights of keepers in general.


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## sweet lu

i have a wild caught ball python and i had a wild emp scorpion but he died

there is nothing wrong with having my wild caught python he eats better than my cative one that i gave away, my scoprion was fine but he drowned

i think if you can get captive then get captive animals, i just got mine from a different seller and they were wild


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## You

sad to say but last night the snake pasted away it looked like he was gasping for air like opening his mouth like a yawn i didnt know what to do and before i knew it he died


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## SERRAPYGO

> YES, the point exactly! In the wild the sun radiates from ABOVE and heats the lizard in the wild dorsally, the rock below the lizard is actually cool because the lizards body blocks the sun from reaching it.....all of the lizards sensory perception telling it it is now too hot operates on this basis....


Ahh haaa!... but, don't cold herps tend to seek out pre- sun heated rocks? Granted, the spot in wich they are laying on will gradually cool while the herp heats up from the top. Ok, I think I may see you're point here.


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## SERRAPYGO

You said:


> sad to say but last night the snake pasted away it looked like he was gasping for air like opening his mouth like a yawn i didnt know what to do and before i knew it he died


 That really sounds like it had a respiratory problem. sorry to hear that.


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## Burf

You said:


> sad to say but last night the snake pasted away it looked like he was gasping for air like opening his mouth like a yawn i didnt know what to do and before i knew it he died


 Sad to hear that.








You did your best, and the rest was down to fate, was just an unlucky snake.


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## Burf

CrocKeeper said:


> Many herps in the wild lie on sun heated rocks. What's the difference? In 30 yrs of on and off herp keeping I never had a problem with hot rocks but, I'm always open to new thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> YES, the point exactly! In the wild the sun radiates from ABOVE and heats the lizard in the wild dorsally, the rock below the lizard is actually cool because the lizards body blocks the sun from reaching it.....all of the lizards sensory perception telling it it is now too hot operates on this basis....:nod:
> 
> On the WC CB issue...
> 
> It is obviously best to go with captive animals. They are hardier, generally speaking parasite and disease free, and are definately acclimated to a captive environ.
> 
> I agree people should think long and hard before obtaing a wild collected animal, and should be willing to take steps nessecary for their healthy acclimitization to a captive condition. Their should be restrictions as far as what can be collected, when, and how many, without out doubt. I just want to make it clear that out-right banning of collection is dangerous to the well being of captive collections, and the rights of keepers in general.:nod:
Click to expand...

 You allways find the best way of wording thigs!!!!









However long i spend writing somthing, it never sounds right.


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## MR.FREEZ

could you bury the heat rock under some sand or rock or cover it with carpet

if its the only source of heat you have at the moment . i dont have any thing with

it but i used to have a red tail boa that my sister has now and they bought the

light for it and everything so its doin good. one reason i didnt like havein a heat

rock was the wires and when i would throw a rat in there sometimes the little

bastard would chew on it then id worry about injury to my snake. and one more

question i have is do scars ever go away on a snake through shedding and such

cause this red tail has been with my family for about 10-11 years and when i got it

the guy had it in the back of his car in the cage for a couple weeks and was sick

and had some nasty scars on its back they do seem like they have gotin better

over the years just wondering how long it take for them to go away if at all?


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## acestro

Sorry that it didn't survive, those pics are graphic. I think the wound was way too serious for you to do anything about. I'm impressed at your effort though!







Good karma to you!


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## acestro

I use heating pads (_not _rocks, I really grew to hate those things). 
Same effect as what Freeze is saying; I bury them or have them underneath the cage. I agree it's not natural and for my big boas they have a choice between two basking lights and an area with a buried heat pad (they vary in what they choose). Giving that 'choice' may be the best call.


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## CrocKeeper

If you have only the heat rock as a source of heat, then by all means bury it in the substrate, but only if the cord is undamaged, if damaged it would present an electrocution hazard......









Heat rocks still bad...


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## acestro

Another bad thing (that I don't think I saw posted) is the knack of these things to become "poop frying pans". I had some lizards a LONG time ago (so long I forgot what species! ) and their poop always seem to end up on the heat rocks. Moms love that cooked poop smell...

Hmmm, I guess that's why I didn't get herps again until I was an adult!


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## CrocKeeper

:laugh:


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## hyphen

is crockeeper the resident encyclopedia?


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## Burf

hyphen said:


> is crockeeper the resident encyclopedia?


 YES

I wish i knew what he knows


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## piranha45

hyphen said:


> is crockeeper the resident encyclopedia?


 yup


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