# lighting



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

I know that p's dont' like light. most of the p owners here dont 'even have lights on in thier
tanks. So I'm wondering if anyone wants to experiment with different bulb colors to see if
the p's are color blind to certain colors of the spectrum. I'm thinking maybe a lamp with a
color slide on it might work or just different colored bulbs. If it works this may help the
hobbyist actually sit and watch thier p's without spooking them.

Any thoughts? Ideas?









p.s. I've tried blacklights and you can't see anything.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

I heard blacklight is actually bad for fish: I don't know why, though... Maybe someone else knows...
I use a reddish tinted tube light in my tank: don't know if it does anything special, but it certainly looks nice (my p's aren't skittish at all, but I don't think it has something to do with the color iof the light). I also have a greenish tube light, but don't use that, because it doesn't look that good.
Certain colors are beneficial to live plants, but don't ask me which colors or why....


----------



## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

well as far as coloured lights go I wouldn't bother myself. you wont be able to see their natural colours with this type of lighting on them and I am sure that they do not encounter these colours in their natural environment, so this wouldn't be good on our behalf as to trying to duplicate it.

but on the other hand, if you would like to do some research and observations for us, by all means go ahead, and let us know how you make out. could prove to be rather interesting. And yes I have heard the same thing that Judazzz has about black lights with P's


----------



## Wolfman (Mar 5, 2003)

The rays emitted from blacklights will destroy your piranha's optic abilities. It is best to use floating plants to subdue the lighting or tint the glasstops, as to avoid too much light from entering their home.

Additionally, it is a good idea to place background film on the sides as too avoid light from entering their home from the sides. :biggrin:


----------



## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

I have colored spot lights, i use as a sorta night light some times and they dont even know there on, so I dont think they can see the green or blue light.
MAD


----------



## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

Stay away from blacklights. They will blind your fish. The UV produced by them destroys their eyes. If not blindness it can cause cataracts (sp?). Try using low level natrual light. Remember they don't like bright light because in the wild they are used to seeing through mirky waters.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Remember they don't like bright light because in the wild they are used to seeing through mirky waters.


 I'm curious to what reference material you are using? Not trying to put you on the spot, but want to know where this information is coming from. You can PM me the material source if your more comfortable with that.


----------



## Outie (Feb 19, 2003)

I'm assuming the main reason for p's getting scared with bright light is because of the instant change from dark to bright light. Mine used to go nuts as soon as the light would come on, but know they seem almost used to it. I also just use standard florescent bulbs, like those used in basements.

I think the reference most people have is from tv/videos of pirahna's. It seems like most of the footage that people see is pirahnas in very cloudy/merky waters. Which then doesn't appear to have much light. But then again in the videos I've usually only seen natts, caribe, and rhoms so that could be just because of the regions that they are filming from?


----------



## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks for checking up on me. Lets me know people are not allowed to say things, unchecked. This is a good thing. So back to why I said that. I have never been to S. America but what I can say is that Piranhas are very sensitive to light. I am associating this with the fact that piranhas must have very good eyes sight because their pupil's are letting in some much light. This function is also associated with animals or other fish that live in dark places and where light is limited. So using the same logic and after seeing that most of the water in S. America is either murky or mineral enriched so much, that light does not get to penetrate to the bottom of the river. Also note that most piranhas like to stay at the bottom of the tank, so in the wild they must be at the bottom too. So no matter what the issue is whether its the water quality or the fact that the lights intensity can not penetrate to the bottom of the river. Whats your take on it.

SMTT


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I am associating this with the fact that piranhas must have very good eyes sight because their pupil's are letting in some much light.


 You have a good insight into this topic and I find it refreshing. Piranas do have very good eyesight and research has shown that their eyes are comparable to our own. They see color and have good vision, however there are some differences that separate their eyes from ours. They are adapted to see things in water without distortion and use their lateral line (flank line) to detect objects in murky water where eyesight is of little value. Light is filtered underwater so the effects on their eyes is not what you think it would be. I agree that sudden light turned on does cause a reaction, but this is counter acted by turning on a light from a different angle and not directly overhead. Hence a suggestion for all to turn on a lamp or other source away from the tank as a starter and then after a few moments of adjustment for the fish turn on the overhead aquario light.



> Also note that most piranhas like to stay at the bottom of the tank, so in the wild they must be at the bottom too.


 Piranas are mid swimmers and don't hang around the bottom unless to feed or have associated it to where food is found. I think your reason for this opinion is because in the aquario the bottom seems to be their regular place and there is truth in that, but in nature it is a different matter with a totally different venue.

Thanks for this interesting discussion. Really enjoyable for me.


----------



## traumatic (Jan 29, 2003)

well this topic blew up,









I'm gonna test some colored bulbs.
I mainly wanted to know if p's can see reflected light of any certain color, off an object.

I've done it with snakes, and I know other animals (deer) are color blind.
I have no proof they can't see it (duh) but, i'm gonna c what happens.


----------



## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

Great knowledge Frank

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

photos I have seen of wild piranhas generally shows them at or near the bottom, my references that you most likely have seen were from Survivor, Wolf in the water to name a few


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I mainly wanted to know if p's can see reflected light of any certain color, off an object.


 To let the cat out of the bag, this was a test I was going to have you all do, using color sheets, placing in front of piranas, note day, time and hour/minute and see how they respond. Primary colors would have been used and your project would have been to write down their responses to the stimuli.

The primary colors where piranas have reacted the most are bright blue, bright yellow and bright red. The reaction was jumpiness and flight response.


----------



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Sir Nathan XXI said:


> photos I have seen of wild piranhas generally shows them at or near the bottom, my references that you most likely have seen were from Survivor, Wolf in the water to name a few


 I dont think that proves anything....I fail to believe that images found on one reality TV show and one documentary can allow you to draw such conclusions.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> I dont think that proves anything....I fail to believe that images found on one reality TV show and one documentary can allow you to draw such conclusions.


 Mike, this is atypical of the nonsense of previous thoughts on piranas attacking animals if you so much put a finger or toe in the water. Documentaries were shown in setup situations with piranas thrashing around devouring animals without the view knowing there was a hidden agenda, or what I call hocus pocus. The often quoted wolves in the water is riff with some piranha mistake in identity such as the S. irritans which if frozen by frame can be seen to be tetragonoptery or the submerged dryed out rivers near the estaurine where 2 different river scenes are shown as one. Paulo Petry and I discussed some of those scenes and he actually picked out the scenes of clear water vs cloudy water where these hungry piranas were feeding were mixed together in these shots. Of course the viewer with no knowledge of water types would not know the differences.

Piranhas hang out in open rivers and are found near tree roots waiting for prey to swim by. As for being bottom dwellers? just in your aquarium since it does not have the necessary height to be a river.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Sir Nathan XXI said:
> 
> 
> > photos I have seen of wild piranhas generally shows them at or near the bottom, my references that you most likely have seen were from Survivor, Wolf in the water to name a few
> ...


 I was using the law of probability, what are the odds that in both cases photographers of those two cases caught a rare occurance in nature, slim to none, therefore one can safely assume that those cases were average cases and both agreed with eachother further increasing the probability of it being and average case


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> therefore one can safely assume that those cases were average cases and both agreed with eachother further increasing the probability of it being and average case


I'm curious, do you also practice your engineering skills in the same manner?


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> IT"S HAPPENING AGAIN!


 What is? Nate is basing his observations on TV, I'm simply drawing out his basis for his expertise. Since he is a mechanical engineer, then he does use some method other than guess work.


----------



## Sir Nathan XXI (Jan 29, 2003)

I have decided after I post my thoughts that I will not respond to posts that will start a debate and ruin threads like has happened in the past, its not worth my time nor effort









I think its time to act like the adult that I am


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Then we can conclude that TV while entertaining is not much to base a hypthosis on.


----------



## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

You dont know how long they sat around waiting to tape scenes like that. It could have taken months..and if we were to apply the laws of probability in this instance thennnnnnn.....


----------



## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

In regards to the TV aspect being discussed here I have seen some documentary where They have abandoned baby eagles that were kept in a outside "treehouse" with a telivision that should them how to fly and how to catch food.... etc... It was believed that it acted as their parents and they were able to fly and were tagged and were successfully adapted into the wildlife...


----------



## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

So this is the Frank and Nate debates I haveheard about. I would like to end this with my personal note that Piranhas in the home aquarium seem to be less skittish when the lights are off. Any opinions on that guys.

SMTT


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> So this is the Frank and Nate debates I haveheard about.


 I don't see it as a debate as much as an exercise in futility.



> I would like to end this with my personal note that Piranhas in the home aquarium seem to be less skittish when the lights are off. Any opinions on that guys.


 Yes, there way and my way of saying Good Night All.


----------



## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

This is a lesson in dont mess with Frank


----------



## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

BDKing57 said:


> This is a lesson in dont mess with Frank


 I agree.

Nate,
When are you going to understand this? Dont you see that you never come out on top in these debates and in the end you look like an egotistical child? You may see it differently, and so may many others, but I think you come across very poorly. You try to take cheep shots and in many of your comments you appear to try to bolster your own ego. And as the final insight into your personality, I have never seen you admit when you are wrong. 
My 2 cents.


----------



## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> In regards to the TV aspect being discussed here I have seen some documentary where They have abandoned baby eagles that were kept in a outside "treehouse" with a telivision that should them how to fly and how to catch food.... etc... It was believed that it acted as their parents and they were able to fly and were tagged and were successfully adapted into the wildlife...


 I'm not sure what this has to do with lighting or the TV programs about piranas being filmed in those clipped/edited segments?


----------

