# 1500< Troops KILLED



## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Over 1500 hundred troops have been killed in Iraq now...what are your thoughts on the progress that this sacrifice has brought?


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## 94NDTA (Jul 14, 2003)

Fido said:


> Over 1500 hundred troops have been killed in Iraq now...what are your thoughts on the progress that this sacrifice has brought?
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1500 dead out of 250,000+ troops that have been sent over there since this time, I would say you couldn't ask for a better outcome. It sucks that they died, but as a war, it is phenominal that only 1500 have died. Take a city with a population of 250,000....I would say more than 1500 people die a year even with out being at war.


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

i fee the same most people feel. bush is terrible and only went to war for the oil and for his dads attempted assasination

absolutely no reason troops should be there now


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## PARANHAZ69 (Dec 16, 2003)

Fresh, 1500 troops is a small number as far as wars go. More people die here in the US for really stupid reasons all the time. I am in the Air Force so slamming my commander in chief doesnt sit well with me. He is the first president in a long time to have the balls to hunt down terrorists. Anyone who denies that saddam needed to be removed from power because he is a crazy and dangerous man has problems. I dont think that the oil has anything to do with anything. and im sure that even though the plan to kill bush senior weighs on our presidents mind, i believe our president is a great man with a good heart. I think the bottom line is that saddam is gone as it should be. like it or not, out great nation has been the worlds police for a long time and will continue to be. All of our troops joined the service knowing the risks. They know that their contributions in iraq, however shitty they might be, will help make a free and safer world. So instead of bashing our president why dont we praise him for trying to kill the scum of the world. And above all praise the real hero's, our men and women in uniform for sacrificing all so that not only can we keep our freedom, but so that the world could all be free some day, because of what they sacrificed.


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## Landon (Feb 24, 2005)

Bush's dumb ass.


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## PARANHAZ69 (Dec 16, 2003)

Landon said:


> Bush's dumb ass.
> [snapback]923902[/snapback]​


Wow!!! that was intelegent......could we get some more of that


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## Landon (Feb 24, 2005)

Sure:

Bush's dumb ass


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Fresh said:


> i fee the same most people feel. bush is terrible and only went to war for the oil and for his dads attempted assasination
> 
> absolutely no reason troops should be there now
> [snapback]919045[/snapback]​


Since when was there an attempt on George Bush? I assume you're basing your opinion on "facts" brought to light by the infamous Farenheit 911? Come up with your own opinion











Landon said:


> Bush's dumb ass.
> [snapback]923902[/snapback]​


Elaborate.

Bush may not be the most intelligent man. In fact, he's probably not very intelligent at all. And I do get pissed off when he pronounces "nuclear" as "nuke-u-lar", but there's no denying that he's got heart. Saying that Bush invaded a country to seek revenge for his dad is absurd. Oil? A good benefit. But regardless of what our intentions were, there should be no room in this world for dictators that infinge on a person's right to "freedom", which is a relative term.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I am going to cry myself to sleep tonight. Its a war and sh*t happens.

Seriously the troops knew what they were getting into before they signed up. Maybe during the next real conflict, like ummm example; China vs US everyone reading this thread will be drafted and f*cking made go fight then you can complain.

Speaking of China anyone read the latest news?

China Says Aggression Against Taiwan a Last Resort

Its coming sooner or later.


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## PARANHAZ69 (Dec 16, 2003)

landon, are you going to serve your country when you get of age?


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## Landon (Feb 24, 2005)

Let me express something.

We went to war with Iraq for the reason that Bush said they had weapons of mass destruction. Bush basically told them to give up the weapons or america will attack. They said they had no weapons, bush attacked with full force and killed thousands. Then we invaded to try to find the weapons, weeks go by, finally we come to the conclusion; there were no weapons (thats after we killed thousands of inncoent people). What does bush say about this? "Im glad I did it". We removed that one person from power though killed thousands of poor people. And we killed our own men as well.... For what??

Hell No! I would not serve this country!


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## mr limpet (May 10, 2003)

Landon said:


> Let me express something.
> 
> We went to war with Iraq for the reason that Bush said they had weapons of mass destruction. Bush basically told them to give up the weapons or america will attack. They said they had no weapons, bush attacked with full force and killed thousands. Then we invaded to try to find the weapons, weeks go by, finally we come to the conclusion; there were no weapons (thats after we killed thousands of inncoent people). What does bush say about this? "Im glad I did it". We removed that one person from power though killed thousands of poor people. And we killed our own men as well.... For what??
> 
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Spitting up what the media fed you.

Since you have so little respect for your home country, I hope you take the first chance that comes your way to get the hell out.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Landon said:


> Let me express something.
> 
> We went to war with Iraq for the reason that Bush said they had weapons of mass destruction. Bush basically told them to give up the weapons or america will attack. They said they had no weapons, bush attacked with full force and killed thousands. Then we invaded to try to find the weapons, weeks go by, finally we come to the conclusion; there were no weapons (thats after we killed thousands of inncoent people). What does bush say about this? "Im glad I did it". We removed that one person from power though killed thousands of poor people. And we killed our own men as well.... For what??
> 
> ...


























then i suggest you go find another country. maybe if you were living in iraq at the time of saddam's regime you'd be more happy. so, we invaded iraq and put a tyrannical family out of power. we've lost a little over 1,500 soldiers. now, soldiers joined the military under their own free will. there was no draft, it was their choice to go. a soldier signs over his life when he enlists. for what? those soldiers died doing their job, following their commander in chief, that's what.

we removed that one person saddam, yes. we also removed his sons and also saved iraqi lives. do you even know what saddam used to do to his 'loyal subjects'? or what sorts of gruesome crimes his sons were guilty of? you say that we killed thousands of "innocent people", how do you know they're innocent? you don't have balls enough to fight for what you have, so what the f*ck would you know? my friend's a door gunner in usmc and he's had these so called "innocent people" open fire on him with ak47s. yeah, real innocent :jerkoff:

maybe you ought to find a country more fitting of your beliefs since you're so unhappy with the current person in office.


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## jackburton (Nov 25, 2003)

i would say you shouldnt of gone there in the first place


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

Landon said:


> Let me express something.
> 
> We went to war with Iraq for the reason that Bush said they had weapons of mass destruction. Bush basically told them to give up the weapons or america will attack. They said they had no weapons, bush attacked with full force and killed thousands. Then we invaded to try to find the weapons, weeks go by, finally we come to the conclusion; there were no weapons (thats after we killed thousands of inncoent people). What does bush say about this? "Im glad I did it". We removed that one person from power though killed thousands of poor people. And we killed our own men as well.... For what??
> 
> ...


Do you know what a country is? Do you know the size of a country? Do you know how easy it is to move or hide weapons? You do know of the nuclear experiments and weapons left some nuclear waste (or residue) in rivers in Iraq. You do know the only way those traces were there meant that weapons were there. Start reading and thinking for yourself, don't just listen to the nightly news.


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## jackburton (Nov 25, 2003)

usa invaded iraq because bush couldnt catch binladen he had allready fucked that up. but the people of america wanted somekind of revenge so they invaded iraq

iam sorry but i think bush is the biggest noob of them all and i pitty the fools who support him

no offence to any one on this server just my opinion


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

I feel sorry for some of the posters in this topic. I guess I just wish everyone read a history book or two and actually knew what the hell they were talking about.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> Do you know what a country is? Do you know the size of a country? Do you know how easy it is to move or hide weapons? You do know of the nuclear experiments and weapons left some nuclear waste (or residue) in rivers in Iraq. You do know the only way those traces were there meant that weapons were there. Start reading and thinking for yourself, don't just listen to the nightly news.
> [snapback]924045[/snapback]​


I'd advise you to do the same. Turn off Fox "news" and get some actual information yourself beyond ridiculous claims of nuclear waste in rivers. The CIA put out a very comprehensive report after the war that amounted to "our bad, there were no weapons and sanctions were working 100%". There were no weapons, you guys invaded for nothing, enjoy your quagmire.

Get informed, http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

b_ack51 said:


> Landon said:
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> > Let me express something.
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Well, they did found Sadam in a pit about a meter sqaure. I assume hiding waepons of mass destruction is a bit more difficult...

And @ Hyphen, a lot of people joined the army as reserves. They did it because otherwise it was impossible for them to go to college or whatever. I suppose they diddnt want to go to Iraq at all.

And for the gruesome crimes Sadam did, well, i have to say usa isnt much better. If u look at what happens in guantanomo bay and that prison in bagdad (forgot the name, sorry) that are also crimes against humanity. But Usa get's away with it because they are the so called " center of freedom, world police, bla bla" ... yeah right...

And btw, if Bush really had the balls he would attack North-Korea as it's proved they have nuclear weapons, but he is to scared to do that (luckily)..

That where my 2 cents in this discussion







Don't take it personally and keep the discussion fair


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

mr limpet said:


> Landon said:
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> > Let me express something.
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So the only way to be a "true American" is by taking everything dished up by the White House your "free" media (Fox and Co, taking objective news broadcasting to a new level







), for granted? Step in line quietly and mindlessly, obey orders no matter what, and don't dare to be be so un-American to ask questions or be critical...
And don't say no, because that's exactly what you just implied.

Great nation you live in! Oh well, better you than me...









And as far as the 1500 dead GI's: it's sad they had to die (and many more probably will), but it's nothing compared to the number of Iraqi's killed...


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

sorry off from work and long winded today.

I belong to quite a few forums and lurk around more than I care too. also I have been in the military and now in civy life. It amuses me seeing this topic on so many boards and read many people opinions on it. I'm not to say I am for the war or I am not for it. but it a boils down to survabilty and placement to survive. believe or not you can watch the TV show survivor and see how the world operates. each survivor can be looked upon as a country and the last one to survive is the winner or the super power.
invading Iraq does a lot for the USA.
1. it keeps a smaller country for competing as a super power which in turn can be safer for the home land
2. the need for oil is always present. I work now in the natural gas and oil business and we as a country doesn't produce enough to support our needs. if you cant support your self you starve.
3. alliances every needs a friend and friends change daily and can be great help in getting what you need. think highschool.
its about getting what you need to survive. its still primitive in a way but its just more civil. not even a hundred years ago men was still conquering countries for there resources and bloodshed was in the millions.
sadam Hussein some people talk about him been a little man with no nukes and that his hands was bound, not to worry they say.
but look at this Hitler in 1930 won elections by popular votes and was considered a fluke and would not last long in office. buy 1945 (his death) he already took over 12 countries and 55million people killed. of that 405,399 was US soldiers. he also killed his own people, German Jews. Sadam had already killed his people too. who knows what would have happened if left in power. and it's not really about the oil either since we "occupy" and friends with Kuwait we have enough oil export out of there. well some you tree hugging peace lovers dont want to admit it but nothing is just handed to you. some people somewere died for your freedom and the things that you have. If you live in the USA and you speak english thank a teacher, if you are free to speak english then thank a soldier.


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

Landon said:


> Let me express something.
> 
> We went to war with Iraq for the reason that Bush said they had weapons of mass destruction. Bush basically told them to give up the weapons or america will attack. They said they had no weapons, bush attacked with full force and killed thousands. Then we invaded to try to find the weapons, weeks go by, finally we come to the conclusion; there were no weapons (thats after we killed thousands of inncoent people). What does bush say about this? "Im glad I did it". We removed that one person from power though killed thousands of poor people. And we killed our own men as well.... For what??
> 
> ...


Landon, I really feel sorry for you and the way you resent the president and our wonderful country. As a veteran, it hurts me to hear young people like you voice your opinion based under the freedoms that young women and men have fought and died for. Perhaps you should go to North Korea and voice your opinion about Kim Jong IL. I'd be willing to bet you would be missing your tongue after a short period of time.

Regurdless of how you feel with the current situation in Iraq, you should still be motivated to serve your country in any way possible, military or otherwise. Your very existence in this country and the freedoms you have come from young people like me that said "Hell YES, I WILL serve my country.

Me personally, Am PROUD to be an American. I love my country and would re-enlist at a moment's notice if I was asked. Not because I agree/disagree with the war in Iraq, but becasue we live in the greatest country in the world, and for that I am grateful.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

i have lost 3 friends over there and when you look at the number it is just a number but when you start to realize that each one of those is a person who had a family it hits you. i hope that my firends did not die for oil or revenge and just to think that upsets me. some of the things that a friend who was over there has sent me do not sound very optomistic as to the situation over there. do i think that sadam needed to go yes i do. although i do not think that we need to be the worlds police. are we going to go into every country that has a dictator and get them out? the reasons that we were told why we were going to war is what upsets me. i really believe we were lied to by our government. i believe now that we are over there we need to finnish the job. send the more troops and equipment whatever it takes to get the job done so we can get these guys home. i do not like bush i do not like the way iraq was handled before we went in and now but politics aside we need to support our troops. if you agree with this war or not you have to agree that we need to finnish it.


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

Oh yea, and by the way. Everyone could learn a lot about being a true patriot from shoe997bed263's avatar.
Pat Tillman in the most non-greedy, USA loving person I've ever had the pleasure to hear and read about. Pat Tillman is a hero in my eyes, a true idol. 
If you don't know about him, you should find out. We could all learn alot about ourselves from him.


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

cooldudectd said:


> Oh yea, and by the way. Everyone could learn a lot about being a true patriot from shoe997bed263's avatar.
> Pat Tillman in the most non-greedy, USA loving person I've ever had the pleasure to hear and read about. Pat Tillman is a hero in my eyes, a true idol.
> If you don't know about him, you should find out. We could all learn alot about ourselves from him.
> [snapback]924094[/snapback]​


You guys could learn a lot about yourselves if you would look every now and then to other countries, other people, othere believes then u guys have.


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## watermonst3rs (Feb 15, 2004)

I hate politics, it's a mask to see who can rule the world. Plain and simple. Has anyone seen the Manchurian Candidate? That's a freaky ass movie.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

0genki said:


> cooldudectd said:
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> > Oh yea, and by the way. Everyone could learn a lot about being a true patriot from shoe997bed263's avatar.
> ...


i have and continue to but what does that have to do with pat tillman? do you know what he did, who he is? i think that is a topic, especially with me, you dont want to go there. i dont know you, never talked to you before but i would believe that is safe to say you are not worthy of carrying pat tillmans jock strap.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Landon - you are from Texas, right ? the state of Bush !







]

just based on that fact alone, I won't flame you


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Pat Tillman is a true hero.

Rest In Peace...


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

shoe997bed263 said:


> 0genki said:
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> > cooldudectd said:
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It has nothing to do with Pat Tillman. It was just a reaction on his last line that u can learn a lot from him, im sure u can, but u can also learn a lot from what i have stated before







No offence against u or Pat Tillman dude









And btw; I don't know him. Not really intrested in American Sports...


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

0genki said:


> cooldudectd said:
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> 
> > Oh yea, and by the way. Everyone could learn a lot about being a true patriot from shoe997bed263's avatar.
> ...


I really wish you would elaborate on your comment. Why make a comment like that and not explain yourself. I'm hoping your from the UK, because if you aren't, your country and yourself probably has something to thank us for.


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

cooldudectd said:


> 0genki said:
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I am from the Netherlands







And i believe trough the years we already thanked u engouh, especially with the marshall plan. Offcourse i am still thankfull for what the Us did in the second world war but that shouldnt stop me for having critics on how the US is behaving at the moment. After all, freedom of speech is something where they fought for right?

I am btw more thankful to the Russians, who knacked Hitlers back before the Us finished it off..

And about explaining it, I think the U.S citizens are to often only busy with their own country and own ideas. U know, there are people who think different on this planet. And that should be respected to.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

cooldudectd said:


> 0genki said:
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> > You guys could learn a lot about yourselves if you would look every now and then to other countries, other people, othere believes then u guys have.
> ...


Yeah, you'd probably be speaking German if it wasn't for the US, blablabla....









Too bad the same people that keep bringing up that (intelligent) argument forget they'd probably be hopping in circles around totem poles naked, dancing with wolves and chanting songs to the god of the moon, if it wasn't for Europe. Or that without the Frenchies you'd all be a colony of a nation with happy tea-drinking chaps with funny accents and a weird sense of humor....
And so this "If it wasn't for us"-baloney goes on and on and on....


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

cooldudectd said:


> 0genki said:
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I hope you've thanked communist Russia for carrying the largest burden of "your" victory over Germany as well, you've got alot to thank them for


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> cooldudectd said:
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Hehe


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

I would like to announce that I will accept all "thank you"s from Soviet Union's behalf since I was born there AND USA's behalf since I've lived here for more than half my life now


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> cooldudectd said:
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Well i'm not saying that what Russia did after the war was good. But I am almost sure D-Day wouldnt be a succes without the Russians starting to defeat Germany in the East. I'ts well known that Roosevelt and Churchill waited very long for their attack (wich upset Stalin very much) so that germany would be a lot weakened by Russia. And btw, Usa lost 450000 people, Russia lost nearly 20 million


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

its not about american sports. i dont follow european sports but i think you would be hard pressed to find someone who did the same thing that he did. it is about loving you country enough to give up everything that he had to defend it. as far as what you said about learning about what other people in other countries think i try to be as well rounded as possible in that aspect. this forum has really helped to. but i think to state that in this thread when we were talking about what we think about he war in iraq was the wrong place to put it. what do you think about the america's involvement over there?

as for the french lol it could be a heavy shopping day and the streets are packed and the french govt would surrender. i went to france and have never been treated worse in any place that i have ever traveled. they can take their girly language and their national monuments with no walls and shove it.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

0genki said:


> Well i'm not saying that what Russia did after the war was good. But I am almost sure D-Day wouldnt be a succes without the Russians starting to defeat Germany in the East. I'ts well known that Roosevelt and Churchill waited very long for their attack (wich upset Stalin very much) so that germany would be a lot weakened by Russia. And btw, Usa lost 450000 people, Russia lost nearly 20 million
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I know, I agree with you. That was just directed at cooldudect and anyone else who mistakenly thinks the US somehow were the single largest contributor to beating the nazis.


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## jackburton (Nov 25, 2003)

pat tillman died fighting for a lost cause.

this ses it all tbh all these amazing great people die at the hands of war and for what WHAT were is it getting us apart from closer to death

R.I.P pat tillman


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

shoe997bed263 said:


> as for the french lol it could be a heavy shopping day and the streets are packed and the french govt would surrender.
> [snapback]924138[/snapback]​


Sigh, where would you get such a stupid idea from? If you think World War 2 is somehow an indicator that the French lack fighting spirit, you need to seriously go back and hit the History books one more time for fear of falling into the "stupid american" stereotype alot of people tack on to you guys.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

jackburton said:


> pat tillman died fighting for a lost cause.
> 
> this ses it all tbh all these amazing great people die at the hands of war and for what WHAT were is it getting us apart from closer to death
> 
> ...


Please explain to me how it was a "lost cause"

I didn't understand your second sentence at all - is it in English ?


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> 0genki said:
> 
> 
> > Well i'm not saying that what Russia did after the war was good. But I am almost sure D-Day wouldnt be a succes without the Russians starting to defeat Germany in the East. I'ts well known that Roosevelt and Churchill waited very long for their attack (wich upset Stalin very much) so that germany would be a lot weakened by Russia. And btw, Usa lost 450000 people, Russia lost nearly 20 million
> ...


Gee, Well, i'm looking through my quotes and I don't remember saying anything like that. I never said that the US was the biggest contributor to beating the Nazis.

Try to get your facts straight before you put words in my mouth. Try reading a little closer next time.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

the french played a HUGE part on the "beginning of the US"


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

cooldudectd said:


> elTwitcho said:
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Gee, then what would he have to thank you for? Fine American cultural influence in the form of reality television shows? Pop music groups like the backstreet boys? McDonalds? What is it that he should be thanking you for while we're not "putting words in your mouth" then, considering you wouldn't want to imply that you guys are the ones who won world war 2 and are therefore deserving of the majority of accolades?


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

shoe997bed263 said:


> its not about american sports. i dont follow european sports but i think you would be hard pressed to find someone who did the same thing that he did. it is about loving you country enough to give up everything that he had to defend it. as far as what you said about learning about what other people in other countries think i try to be as well rounded as possible in that aspect. this forum has really helped to. but i think to state that in this thread when we were talking about what we think about he war in iraq was the wrong place to put it. what do you think about the america's involvement over there?
> 
> as for the french lol it could be a heavy shopping day and the streets are packed and the french govt would surrender. i went to france and have never been treated worse in any place that i have ever traveled. they can take their girly language and their national monuments with no walls and shove it.
> [snapback]924138[/snapback]​


Well again, don't know what he did so maybe I can come up with someone from here







Can u make a short summary about what he did, u got me quiete curious now







If u think it will spoil this topic to much pm will be cool to









And about the war in Iraq : I am very much against it (so am i against all wars ofcourse). I was very dissapointed in our own government when they decided to join the Alliance. I think that there is a far more dangerous country then the already criplled Iraq (North-Korea, the last place of real communism) and that organisations like Al-Quaida are also for more dangerous, and they need to be fought in a different way then the US is doing now. And if this war "had to be fought" I think it had been better for Bush to fight it in the name of the UN. A larger part of Europe would have supported him in that way...


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

just a joke twitch nothing else meant by it. just not big on the french thats all and my grandfather (who is a ww2 vet) will say the same thing. in fact since you mentioned it at noon i am off to class (european economic philosophies)


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Interesting topic, especially without the references to wars over 50 years old :laugh: The real impact of WWII was the establishment of Israel and the subsequent hate of the U.S. by Arab nations. It's all such a mess.

And I don't believe all of Ferhenheit 911 but I think there just may be enough fact there (amongst the 'propaganda' aspects) to make it okay to question our president.

As for a war for oil, I hate that possibility.... however now that it's already happened why are gas prices going up????????????? (selfish me...







)


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

shoe997bed263 said:


> just a joke twitch nothing else meant by it. just not big on the french thats all and my grandfather (who is a ww2 vet) will say the same thing. in fact since you mentioned it at noon i am off to class (european economic philosophies)
> [snapback]924156[/snapback]​


No doubt, the French piss me off to (I've been to France as well) and while I enjoyed certain aspects of my stay there, I did not find them a particularly enjoyable people and I thought their cuisine sucked. But they got smoked in World War 2 because they were still in a WW1 mentality and put all their hopes on the Maginot line, which Hitler simply went around. They had no reserves to stop the Germans with, and the war in France was lost the moment that happened. It wasn't cowardice, it was terrible leadership


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

i agree with that acestro...!


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

acestro said:


> And I don't believe all of Ferhenheit 911 but I think there just may be enough fact there (amongst the 'propaganda' aspects) to make it okay to question our president.
> 
> [snapback]924165[/snapback]​


In The Netherlands they have this saying " were there is smoke, there is fire"







I do not believe everything from that movie, but it does make you think


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

in short and this does not do him justice he gave up a mulitmillion dollar contract and left his newly married wife to go join the military just off principle. google it you will find his whole story. how about i relate it to this it would be the same as if Ruud van Nistelrooy decided to quit soccor and give up all the money in the prime of his career to go fight.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> shoe997bed263 said:
> 
> 
> > just a joke twitch nothing else meant by it. just not big on the french thats all and my grandfather (who is a ww2 vet) will say the same thing. in fact since you mentioned it at noon i am off to class (european economic philosophies)
> ...


i agree


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## Kolbenschlag (Feb 3, 2003)

PARANHAZ69 said:


> Anyone who denies that saddam needed to be removed from power because he is a crazy and dangerous man has problems.
> [snapback]923869[/snapback]​


A lot of people here and worldwide, including myself would argue that Bush needs to be removed from power because he is a crazy and dangerous man. The whole thing America is so paranoid over is Iraq or Korea or whoever coming onto our soil unprovoked and attacking us. Do we not realize that that is exactly what we did in Iraq?


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

acestro said:


> Interesting topic, especially without the references to wars over 50 years old :laugh: The real impact of WWII was the establishment of Israel and the subsequent hate of the U.S. by Arab nations. It's all such a mess.
> 
> And I don't believe all of Ferhenheit 911 but I think there just may be enough fact there (amongst the 'propaganda' aspects) to make it okay to question our president.
> 
> ...


Its' always OK to question the president. No doubt about it. But what isn't Ok is watching a Michael Moore movie and forming ANY kind of opinion.

The only thing that was factual on that tape was the running time...96 minutes of Bullshit. I hate that Fat Bastard.


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

i have never seen the movie and do not know exactly what was stated in it. i refuse to give michael moore any of my money but i pose this question if it really was false and all made up lies couldnt bush have sued for liable and slander? he has already gone after publications that have made false claims about him.


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

shoe997bed263 said:


> in short and this does not do him justice he gave up a mulitmillion dollar contract and left his newly married wife to go join the military just off principle. google it you will find his whole story. how about i relate it to this it would be the same as if Ruud van Nistelrooy decided to quit soccor and give up all the money in the prime of his career to go fight.
> [snapback]924173[/snapback]​


Ok, respect for that dude


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

even though no one quoted me. just let you know I belive it was a combo effort in ww2 to defeat Hittlers armys. the reason I brought it up was the death toll then and now and how Sadam could be a modren day hitler. I seen a post above stateing that there country has more than paid back the US for there aid. its not true in so many countries. the US forgive payback in the billions all the time and is also sued by un thankful countries that we helped to rebuild. not to long ago the was a lawsuit from france that was stated wanted compention for lost of building in our bombing raids on the germans. hey its all fair in war as much as we dont like it. the armys that liberated these diffrent countries could just set back and watch all the jews die and see where your bildings be at today.


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

cooldudectd said:


> acestro said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting topic, especially without the references to wars over 50 years old :laugh: The real impact of WWII was the establishment of Israel and the subsequent hate of the U.S. by Arab nations. It's all such a mess.
> ...


It's not ok to form your opinion on just one movie, but u can use it as a guideline to get to know more about it. I mean, its def not ok to form you opinion on fox news...

And how do u know nothing was facutal on that tape? You know everything that goes on in the white house?


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

R6JUNKIE said:


> even though no one quoted me. just let you know I belive it was a combo effort in ww2 to defeat Hittlers armys. the reason I brought it up was the death toll then and now and how Sadam could be a modren day hitler. [snapback]924192[/snapback]​


But so what? ANYONE could be a modern day Hitler, George Bush could be a modern day Hitler himself. Hell, if you think about it, Bush is more likely to become the reiteration of Hitler and go on a world conquest "crusade" and start exterminating one particular ethnic group than Saddam was considering Saddams army was crushed and had no way of rebuilding. That rationalization is a load of crap, it could be used to argue that anyone could be attacked because anybody could be called "maybe the next Hitler".

Don't believe me?

Hitler rose to power and solidified the support of the people after the reichstag was burnt down by what he blamed as communists.

Bush was losing support at a very real and very large rate before the World Trade Centern was destroyed. He consolidated his support after these attacks.

Hitler started imprisoning Jews.

Bush imprisoned thousands of Muslims without trial.

Hitler began his war with the cover of "liberating" ethnic germans in a foreign country.

Bush began the Iraq war with the cover of "liberating" the iraqi people.

LIKE OMG BUSH IS [email protected]#!


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

0genki said:


> cooldudectd said:
> 
> 
> > acestro said:
> ...


Agreed. It seems to be harder and harder to find un-biased sources of information (or unbiased people for that matter). I think it was Jefferson that preferred the press over government 


> "If I had to choose between government without newspapers, and newspapers without government, I wouldn't hesitate to choose the latter."


(because they kept things honest). I wonder what he'd think today...


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## 0genki (Mar 6, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> R6JUNKIE said:
> 
> 
> > even though no one quoted me. just let you know I belive it was a combo effort in ww2 to defeat Hittlers armys. the reason I brought it up was the death toll then and now and how Sadam could be a modren day hitler. [snapback]924192[/snapback]​
> ...


Good points...

The reichstag was burnt down by a dutch man btw. If u look at it like that u can state holland started the second world war


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

That's ok, the second world war was really just a continuation of the first world war, which tiny little Yugoslavia started


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

And speaking of the French, it was their vindictive response to WWI that helped start WWII (taking the Rhineland from Germany). Not a whole lot of conplaints when Hitler took that back, no one knew what it was the beginning of.... HEY! Now I'm doing it!


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## DepH (Jan 11, 2005)

That "you should thank us" sh*t is driving me crazy. It's like saying "if it weren't for my tip-tip-tip grandfather saving your tip-tip-tip- grandfather, you would be alive, so you should thank me".

Many people here in this thread speaks as they know it all. What's most right, who's stupid, who's not, who's blame it is for doing this and that. 
Like the dude saying that the french suck because they weren't polite or whatever. Like all of the americans were "polite" to the French when they decided not to help U.S in Iraq? I saw on some posters : "Bomb Iraq, then the French" and I thought; WOW! 
I can't say it's the same; helping someone that's being invaded, and helping someone invading..

The more eager people gets in this case, the war and all, the more conflicts








It's like: those who likes Bush vs. those who doesn't.


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

acestro said:


> Interesting topic, especially without the references to wars over 50 years old :laugh: The real impact of WWII was the establishment of Israel and the subsequent hate of the U.S. by Arab nations. It's all such a mess.
> 
> As for a war for oil, I hate that possibility.... however now that it's already happened why are gas prices going up????????????? (selfish me...
> 
> ...


the hate of the US by Arab nations? the Arab nations is like a domestic fight. they been fighting amonst there self since the begining of time. but when some one sticks there nose in there business they both turn on that person.

the real reason most countries hate us is because we are viewed as the terrorists of the world by many. we do have the most weapons of mass destruction in the world and we train people all over the world in how to usurp their governments and we have funded a 50 million dollar a year terrorist campaign against Cuba since the kenedy administration. and what does that mean? were survivors like all other super powers. do you think england got to be a super power by being a big puss?

and the oil matter why is it a big deal with every one? if we had little food and not enough resources to produce it. what would you do?
its survival of the fittest. also if it was about he oil look at it this way, we got it secured now then whay do i pay $2.18 a gal? if we was in control of it wouldnt it be like 99 cents like it was in there eairly 90's


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## shoe997bed263 (Oct 15, 2004)

gas was 2.21 over here sure am glad that we got control of all those oil fields in fact it went up wiht in a hour.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

R6JUNKIE said:


> acestro said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting topic, especially without the references to wars over 50 years old :laugh: The real impact of WWII was the establishment of Israel and the subsequent hate of the U.S. by Arab nations. It's all such a mess.
> ...


I'm not sure I get all of your points







As for gas, if you drive a lot for your job/school it is very very real.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I think Cuba is a bad point. They tried to bring Nukes within 90 miles of this country...

and their cigars are over-rated


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> R6JUNKIE said:
> 
> 
> > even though no one quoted me. just let you know I belive it was a combo effort in ww2 to defeat Hittlers armys. the reason I brought it up was the death toll then and now and how Sadam could be a modren day hitler. [snapback]924192[/snapback]​
> ...


your quite right he could do that any one is capable of it. but the idealistic thing is to get people out of power who could grow and inturn harm your country. the ideal is to stay on top not be weak. it a primitive pecking order. its the big piranha eating the smaller one. you never want the smaller to grow larger and become a super power. ya never played sports did you? you all ways want to be the top team. oh by the way Hittler impresiond jews in his own country and killing them. were are these imprisoned Muslums in our country you dream of? I belive I just bought a Pepsi from one down the street last night. oh my gawd I better rush and hide him in my attic before Bush finds out hes out on the street.


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

I'm not sure I get all of your points







As for gas, if you drive a lot for your job/school it is very very real.
[snapback]924257[/snapback]​[/quote]
the point is really the arabs really hate everyone in there family(countries) but they stick together when someone new is around.

the point of the cube thing and that nukes. is yes alot of countries look at the US see as terrorists , we dont see it because this is our home land. that is another reason for hate.

another reason for hate for the USA is that we are free. I had a lady from Iran tell me once she says I hate you because you are free and we can not do these things in my home land, what have you done to deserve it?

the gas thing is that if we was going in for oil we did a shity job because oil is $56 bucks a barrel. and yes its very real like other people i havent got a cost of living raise in 5 years and we pay double the price to go to work. this drive the cost up on every thing sice it has to be delivered or shipped.


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## Landon (Feb 24, 2005)

hyphen said:


> Landon said:
> 
> 
> > Let me express something.
> ...


This was the only reply I read. You say they joined on free will, thats correct though bush also promised them they would be out soon, he said it would not last longer than one year. How many years has it been now?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

wtf is this? delayed reaction? lol nice to see this discussion is growing.


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

What gets me about bush is he is always talking about 1 nation under god. How god is on our side, and all that religious B.S. that he sell us. He is not a true follower of god. You dont kill another man or rage war under the name of god. The more americans killed means the more muslims killed=more humans killed. I am no religious guy, but i recently have been studyingt the bible and what is going on now is all in there. Through our own sin we justify how murder is ok. We are convinced the only way for peace is kill, kill, kill. The Koran doesnt teach hate, instead love and peace.

I would never put my faith in man, or Bush! He is no greater than me or any of you reading this.

We need to quit worrying about saving our country, and start worrying about saving our world. And war is not the answer. I respect all who have faught to better our country, and respect their reasons for doing so. There is a much bigger picture than the wars or who is fighting in them. We will never figure this out and continue to destroy our world.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

the grinch said:


> What gets me about bush is he is always talking about 1 nation under god. How god is on our side, and all that religious B.S. that he sell us. He is not a true follower of god. You dont kill another man or rage war under the name of god.
> [snapback]924439[/snapback]​


You have never heard the bible have you?







Remember those things called the Crusades. Killed lots of people. Even sent in children to fight because 'children' are gods gift and are innocent, so they shouldnt or couldnt be hurt. I believe religion and land are the top two reasons for war.


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## heffer2028 (Oct 10, 2004)

PARANHAZ69 said:


> Landon said:
> 
> 
> > Bush's dumb ass.
> ...


speaking of intelligence... learn how to spell it


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Gee, then what would he have to thank you for? Fine American cultural influence in the form of reality television shows? Pop music groups like the backstreet boys? McDonalds? What is it that he should be thanking you for while we're not "putting words in your mouth" then, considering you wouldn't want to imply that you guys are the ones who won world war 2 and are therefore deserving of the majority of accolades?
> [snapback]924150[/snapback]​


I guess we should be thankful of Britain for the Spice Girls.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

To get this sh*t back on track. What are some of your guys predictions on oil prices going down by late summer? I would think they would since we most likely will "force" the Iraqis to sell us oil for cheap from their land. Or would Iraq just become part of opec?


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## hiphopn (Feb 10, 2005)

im sick and tired of the bushshit.


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

b_ack51 said:


> the grinch said:
> 
> 
> > What gets me about bush is he is always talking about 1 nation under god. How god is on our side, and all that religious B.S. that he sell us. He is not a true follower of god. You dont kill another man or rage war under the name of god.
> ...










history will allways repeat its self, mankind will never learn from there mistakes


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> b_ack51 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what a country is? Do you know the size of a country? Do you know how easy it is to move or hide weapons? You do know of the nuclear experiments and weapons left some nuclear waste (or residue) in rivers in Iraq. You do know the only way those traces were there meant that weapons were there. Start reading and thinking for yourself, don't just listen to the nightly news.
> ...


Oh come on twitcho, don't believe everything the United States gov tells you. Sorry I don't watch Fox 'news', but its good you know about it. With what you just posted with the US government, you probably believe there is no Area 51 base and no other secret base in Utah. They could lie if they wanted, they probably did. I am informed and I stay informed, there are other documents around that said we did not find wmds, but we did find traces of nuclear wastes in rivers. Which leads to WMD at one time were there. Take your own advice and get informed.


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> the grinch said:
> 
> 
> > What gets me about bush is he is always talking about 1 nation under god. How god is on our side, and all that religious B.S. that he sell us. He is not a true follower of god. You dont kill another man or rage war under the name of god.
> ...


Are you saying my statement is false? Ever heard of the 10 commandments? "Thou shall not kill." Even if you dont believe in god it is easy to see how killing is wrong. I kill you, your brother kills me, my brother kills your brother, and it just keeps on going. The direction humanity is going is sad. Since we have been on earth we have been destroying it. That's all i'm saying, and we will never change our ways.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Gee, then what would he have to thank you for? Fine American cultural influence in the form of reality television shows? Pop music groups like the backstreet boys? McDonalds? What is it that he should be thanking you for while we're not "putting words in your mouth" then, considering you wouldn't want to imply that you guys are the ones who won world war 2 and are therefore deserving of the majority of accolades?
> ...


Just Geri Halliwell... mmmm


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## User (May 31, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> the grinch said:
> 
> 
> > What gets me about bush is he is always talking about 1 nation under god. How god is on our side, and all that religious B.S. that he sell us. He is not a true follower of god. You dont kill another man or rage war under the name of god.
> ...


Dominance encoded in our DNA is what creates wars, bitching, and even debates. Its also impossible to achieve peace when humans are the damn problem. I watched a program on chimps a few nights back, and how they turn on another chimp, rip its penis and balls off, eat its throat, and celebrate. Sounds alot like humans.

C'mon who doesn't like volience? Earth is a slaughter planet.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > b_ack51 said:
> ...


You can't possibly be, even remotely, fractionally or slightly serious, right?


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

the grinch said:


> b_ack51 said:
> 
> 
> > the grinch said:
> ...


Yes I believe killing is wrong, I'm just saying wars have been started by religions and land. (and even religious land) I think I've heard of the 10 commandments, but like I said before the Crusades were sent by the Catholic Church to kill/murder/attack/ wage war on other groups of people. God might not have said go kill this group of people, but the human part of religion did.


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## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

I have said from the beginning of this war that they should just nuke their asses and turn it into a glassfield. Whether its 1 person dead or 1500 Americans dead, those f*****'s deserved it.


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

b_ack51 said:


> the grinch said:
> 
> 
> > b_ack51 said:
> ...


That is what i am saying and that is basically the same thing we are fighting over now. (God)
False religions, along with false teachings is killing us. That dont point to the banning of religion, but teaching the correct religion. They are trying to abolish religion in our own country.


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

[[/quote]

Dominance encoded in our DNA is what creates wars, bitching, and even debates. Its also impossible to achieve peace when humans are the damn problem. I watched a program on chimps a few nights back, and how they turn on another chimp, rip its penis and balls off, eat its throat, and celebrate. Sounds alot like humans.

C'mon who doesn't like volience? Earth is a slaughter planet.
[snapback]924546[/snapback]​[/quote]

LMAO That is so true we are about as hopless of a species as you can get. We are doomed and the good book (Bible) tells us so. WTF?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

sprtslvr785 said:


> I have said from the beginning of this war that they should just nuke their asses and turn it into a glassfield. Whether its 1 person dead or 1500 Americans dead, those f*****'s deserved it.
> [snapback]924707[/snapback]​


THe hell are you talking about?? There was no WMD, and we got Saddam, so how did innocent people deserve getting killed??


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## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

Fido said:


> sprtslvr785 said:
> 
> 
> > I have said from the beginning of this war that they should just nuke their asses and turn it into a glassfield. Whether its 1 person dead or 1500 Americans dead, those f*****'s deserved it.
> ...


Well I guess when the people decide to drive vans and sh*t into our tanks or whatever else, and running up to our troops with guns and blowing them away, who can you trust?
How do we know the good from bad?

Just like I said before, turn it into a glassfield!


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

0genki said:


> b_ack51 said:
> 
> 
> > Landon said:
> ...


hrm, let's see, a prison in baghdad versus saddam using chemical weapons on his own people. i don't see dictator bush unleashing biological weapons onto us. i don't see bush's children running around raping people and clubbing them to death, only to walk free. i don't see fascist bush forcing us to worship the ground that he walks on. nor do i see bush living in lavish mansions while his people are oppressed and living in poverty because of his greed.


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## GangstaCool (Feb 25, 2005)

The way I look at it is this, If the war was justified there wouldn't be any argument. Until the day that war is the undisputable only option, it isn't an option at all.


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## Landon (Feb 24, 2005)

the grinch said:


> What gets me about bush is he is always talking about 1 nation under god. How god is on our side, and all that religious B.S. that he sell us. He is not a true follower of god. You dont kill another man or rage war under the name of god. The more americans killed means the more muslims killed=more humans killed. I am no religious guy, but i recently have been studyingt the bible and what is going on now is all in there. Through our own sin we justify how murder is ok. We are convinced the only way for peace is kill, kill, kill. The Koran doesnt teach hate, instead love and peace.
> 
> I would never put my faith in man, or Bush! He is no greater than me or any of you reading this.
> 
> ...





sprtslvr785 said:


> Fido said:
> 
> 
> > sprtslvr785 said:
> ...


You need to realize there is only a portion of people doing that, what about the thousands of children killed, what about them? Dont judge everyone because of a few actions some of them did.


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## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

Nobody answered my question though...who can you trust over there(meaning the Iraqis)?? 
And until somebody can answer that question with a legit response, my thought will remain the same. Glassfield!


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

sprtslvr785 said:


> Nobody answered my question though...who can you trust over there(meaning the Iraqis)??
> [snapback]926312[/snapback]​


Are you serious? I surely hope not...

The US invaded Iraq, shot the place to rubble, killed thousands of civilians, allowed terrorists to flood into Iraq, turned it into occupied territory (and not a liberated country), and broke all sorts of human rights - and then you expect a cookie with your tea?

Most Iraqi's hate the Americans, or at least want to see them get the hell out of _their_ country as soon as humanly possible - and after what has happened with Iraq, I can't blame them. Iraq is far from free, stabile and democratic, despite all the promises the US made.

You can't trust people you turned your back on: if you turn your back on an entire people, don't expect friendship or signs of appreciation...


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

sprtslvr785 said:


> Nobody answered my question though...who can you trust over there(meaning the Iraqis)??
> And until somebody can answer that question with a legit response, my thought will remain the same. Glassfield!
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm if I was an Iraqi would I trust the American troops who killed my family while liberating Iraq? Or who forced my cousin to suck another guys c*ck in prison? hmmmmmmmmmmmm who would you trust if you were in THEIR shoes?


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## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

Fido said:


> Hmmm if I was an Iraqi would I trust the American troops who killed my family while liberating Iraq? Or who forced my cousin to suck another guys c*ck in prison? hmmmmmmmmmmmm who would you trust if you were in THEIR shoes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 So are you saying the us Americans tortured them more then Saddam did? I dont think so. Not even close. 
Let me ask you this....if you were an American soldier and you were over there fighting, getting shot at everyday or whatever else, wouldnt you be a little pissed off to? If you caught somebody and threw them in "jail" over there wouldnt you want to beat his ass or something for trying to kill you? I dont know about you but that wouldnt make me the happiest knowing that the guy you caught was trying to take your life. I know it isnt the so called "right" thing to do but sh*t happens I guess.



> Judazz---Are you serious? I surely hope not...
> 
> The US invaded Iraq, shot the place to rubble, killed thousands of civilians, allowed terrorists to flood into Iraq, turned it into occupied territory (and not a liberated country), and broke all sorts of human rights - and then you expect a cookie with your tea?
> 
> ...


 Yes the U.S did invade Iraq. And they did trash it, but who did we catch that treated them people like crap- Saddam. He tortured everybody and made people bow to the ground he walked on. Now we are helping rebuild Iraq. Why are we doing this if them people hate us so much? I know there are alot of people over there that hate us, but there are also alot that love us. And the ones that do actually like us are the ones that didnt believe in Saddams b.s.

Whan exactly was Iraq free and stable???


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

my friend that was in iraq also told me that he had to constantly be on the lookout for muzzle flashes, even among kids. he said that his chopper went under fire from groups of children.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

sprtslvr785 said:


> Fido said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm if I was an Iraqi would I trust the American troops who killed my family while liberating Iraq? Or who forced my cousin to suck another guys c*ck in prison? hmmmmmmmmmmmm who would you trust if you were in THEIR shoes? :rock:
> ...


Where did I say it was?
Bush and his spindoctors are the ones spreading that message for some years now - it's time they turn words into deeds, as most Iraqi's are/don't feel secure, nor free to go and do whatever they want, nor respresented democratically politically...

I can imagine Americans are nervous and edgy in Iraq - who wouldn't if most people you encounter would rather see you dead: but that's no justification for any wrongdoings, let alone stepping on human rights as if their were dirt. Nor is the phrase "order is order" under any circumstances excusable...
But still, I don't blame the Iraqi's: they never asked for the US to liberate them (maybe they preferred a multinational coalition?). The Americans waltzed in there, destroyed half the country, killed thousands, detained even more, and then wonder no one likes them, and are actually pissed off people want to get even? C'mon, how naieve can you get?

If they Americans weren't there (or at least had build a broad coalition that represents more than just Team America), they'd never had to deal with those problems and anxiety to such an extent - the invasion is seen as an American invasion (and for a reason), so many problems are basically self-inflicted (and were preventable, if anyone actually bothered to lay out a sound justification, policy and long-term plan before invading)
What goes around comes around: if you want to blame someone, blame the ones responsible for the American presence in Iraq, not the Iraqi's themselves
Note that with Iraqi's I don't mean foreign terrorists who gained free access to Iraq because of US policy in Iraq - or rather, complete lack there of - nor remaining Bathists that were given the opportunity to restructure after Saddam's fall - and again, guess who's the thank for that...


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Most of the violence by insurgents in present-day Iraq is not even really directed towards American troops, but rather Shiite Muslims and Iraqi police.. Yes, they are real "freedom fighters", bombing Shiite mosques and killing innocent civilians and killing police officers who are trying to restore order to their country, therefore making way for Americans to leave and completely hand over the power to Iraquis


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Damn, Judazzz... you got it all right...

All the facts are there... who can argue that? Also Fido has a good point... I wont comment as I will be Canadian soon!


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Um, the majority of iraqis support the americans...espeically now. They're already sick of the insurgents and those of you who blame americans for the violence are just finding something wrong w/ bush. Set your politics aside. Judaz, who is initiating the violence? You blame bush? Is he the one planting ieds? Is he attacking mosques? Attacking funerals? Is he the one beheading innocent civilians and the people trying to keep the peace (iraqi policemen)? Me point is that no matter how successful the iraqi gov't or american gov't is, you'll always find something to blame just b/c bush is behind it.


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## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

diddye said:


> Um, the majority of iraqis support the americans...espeically now. They're already sick of the insurgents and those of you who blame americans for the violence are just finding something wrong w/ bush. Set your politics aside. Judaz, who is initiating the violence? You blame bush? Is he the one planting ieds? Is he attacking mosques? Attacking funerals? Is he the one beheading innocent civilians and the people trying to keep the peace (iraqi policemen)? Me point is that no matter how successful the iraqi gov't or american gov't is, you'll always find something to blame just b/c bush is behind it.
> [snapback]927756[/snapback]​


Well said!


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

We shouldnt be there.


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## b_ack51 (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm not touching this topic with a 60 foot pole.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

diddye said:


> Um, the majority of iraqis support the americans...espeically now. They're already sick of the insurgents and those of you who blame americans for the violence are just finding something wrong w/ bush.[snapback]927756[/snapback]​


Yes, the majority of Iraqi's are sick of the violence, but they're also sick of the American occupation - they want to govern themselves, even when still faced with insurgents.
And seriously, if the Coalition did a better job, terrorism and insurgency weren't such big problems - the Coalition _let_ it happen, due to lack of planning and strategy. The Coalition allowed a power and security vacuum to arise - you want to blame anyone else for taking that opportunity with both hands? get real, dude.
Also, the Coalition broke down every remaining piece of civil government, which, even tainted with the Ba'athist virus, could have helped setting up a first provisional means of civil society - you want to blame the Iraqi's for that?
During the first weeks, the Coalition killed thousands of civilians, destroyed entire neighborhoods: unnecessarily: you might think lightly about that, but you didn't pay that price, Iraqi's did: they lost loved ones and/or their home. So don't be so naieve to think they'd forget about that - just like many Americans (and Westerners in general) see a potential terrorist in every muslim, many Iraqi's see a potential killer in every Coalition soldier.

Yes, there are many things Iraqi's should be thankful for, but don't expect them to be thankful for the Coalition letting a relatively stable situation (immedeately after Saddam's downfall) to deteriorate quickly, and everything that caused in its aftermath...

And quit crying about people attacking Bush and his henchmen - they're the ones responsible for the troops being there, ain't they? And I wasn't attacking him in the first place (there's no need to: why would I waste my breath on the obvious...?), so find something else to whine about...


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

Sorry if someone has already brought this up. I couldn't read the whole post.

Current statistics from the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration show fatalities on October 10th, the month of October and the full year:

YEAR	OCTOBER 10	MONTH OF OCTOBER	FULL YEAR

1999	170	3,869	41,717
2000	100	3,746	41,945
2001	93	3,886	42,196
2002	124	3,711	43,005
2003	144	3,921	42,643
2004	N/A	N/A	N/A

Guess its time to outlaw the car. I mean if 1500 is too many to free a countyr and start a movement of freedom and democracy in the middle east than there is no way we can justify 42,000 a year to get milk, go to work and pick up prostitutes.


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

nomaddan said:


> Sorry if someone has already brought this up. I couldn't read the whole post.
> 
> Current statistics from the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration show fatalities on October 10th, the month of October and the full year:
> 
> ...










I agree.............................................................and pick up prostitutes


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

nomaddan said:


> Sorry if someone has already brought this up. I couldn't read the whole post.
> 
> Current statistics from the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration show fatalities on October 10th, the month of October and the full year:
> 
> ...


Well you can be the first one to walk to work, cus I wont.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

diddye said:


> Um, the majority of iraqis support the americans...espeically now. They're already sick of the insurgents and those of you who blame americans for the violence are just finding something wrong w/ bush. Set your politics aside. Judaz, who is initiating the violence? You blame bush? Is he the one planting ieds? Is he attacking mosques? Attacking funerals? Is he the one beheading innocent civilians and the people trying to keep the peace (iraqi policemen)? Me point is that no matter how successful the iraqi gov't or american gov't is, you'll always find something to blame just b/c bush is behind it.
> [snapback]927756[/snapback]​


Well I guess to find the one who initiated violence, would be having to look at our own administration.


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## BizzyBone (Feb 15, 2005)

its just another act of neo-imperialism.

oil/drugs= alot more then most people know in americas economy.

a few other "terrorist" countries will be attacked also for the same reason.

countrys are labeled terrorist when they do not comply with u.s. foreign policy.

lol at the person saying "you just repeat what the media feeds you" when in all actuality, you are being hypocritical.

the media is controlled by the government and giant corporations. reporters are stenographers that promote the governments agenda.

get off the whole republican/democrat crap. its a fake divide.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

BizzyBone said:


> its just another act of neo-imperialism.
> 
> oil/drugs= alot more then most people know in americas economy.
> 
> ...












wasup syd


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## PARANHAZ69 (Dec 16, 2003)

GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY THEN LANDON!!!! YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE FREE!!!


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## sprtslvr785 (Mar 3, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> During the first weeks, the Coalition killed thousands of civilians, destroyed entire neighborhoods: unnecessarily: you might think lightly about that, but you didn't pay that price, Iraqi's did: they lost loved ones and/or their home. So don't be so naieve to think they'd forget about that - just like many Americans (and Westerners in general) see a potential terrorist in every muslim, many Iraqi's see a potential killer in every Coalition soldier.
> [snapback]928962[/snapback]​


 So, we lost over 3000 people on 9-11. Them poor people thought they were going away, then the stupid towelheads ran it into the World Trade Center, oh and I almost forgot-The Pentagon. Are we supposed to take that lightly? I dont know about you but I didnt like seeing our country being under fire to some typical gas station owners. I dont blame Bush for anything, he's just not a p**** like alot of the other presidents.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Judazzz, I agree they're sick of us being there. But I strongly disagree they want us gone. The vast majority of iraqis want us there until they can stablize themselves. Hell, how many americans WANT to be there? Think they dont want to sleep in their own beds, take a shower daily and have warm meals? those soldiers there want to be out as much as the iraqis want us. Point blank, the americans cant provide security if the people dont take a part in it themselves. you think that gov't can control everything? Coups would never occur if that was true. A gov't is only as strong as its people. Also, people there are pissed about people dying but they dont regret this occupation happened. They know that in the long run, this has been a fruitful and worthwhile venture.

Bizzybone-Countries that dont comply with us are called terrorists? Lets see who they are....iran, n. korea, iran, syria. Tell me which of those are considered rogue countries to YOU??? Also, america isn't the only one that considers them a threat/terrorist country. Ask many places around the world. As for as the rep/dem "crap" and the fake divide. YOu are sorely mistaken there bro. This isn't about politics? Was this war about WMD and removal of a dictator/freedom? Isn't that political? Reps want a free middle east...dems well didn't. The sunni insurgency is vs the shites. As spain and the popular party about how much iraq is involed. Most dems are against bush b/c of this iraq thing. Russia, germany, china, and france are against it not because they love iraq, but $$$ and instability. Kerrys whole plan in his election bid was "i am not bush". One min hes for the war, the other hes not. Half of america is still bitter about bush winning and cant let it go. Its still obvious the way the SS issue was handled over the state of the union. Even zawaq (sp) is against democracy saying it is against islam...everything is tied together.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

the pentagon was a coverup... there is no proof of a Boeing jet hitting it.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:


> the pentagon was a coverup... there is no proof of a Boeing jet hitting it.
> [snapback]929472[/snapback]​


Dude, the next time you say something intelligent will be your first

Of course, all those passengers and people missing from Pentagon just vanished without a trace, right ?


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

so much hatered for ones own country in this thread,

lemmie ask this, if everyone actually pulls together and supports the elected presedent so he could do his

job with out a bunch of red tape, do you think we could be finished with this was quicker?


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

It amazes me how people can dismiss reality just to support their own agenda. How can anybody say this war is not worth the sacrafice. Whether you like it or not the elections in Afgahnastan and Iraq was just the begining. People all over the region are itching for freedom and now they see the light at the end of the tunnel. The people in Lebonan are demanding it and there is even talk in Egypt about elections. If someone had suggested these things just 3 years ago they would have been laughed at.

Basically...Grow up people. Deal with the way things are not how you want them to be.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

dont forget saudi arabia, palestine, and more that are sure to come


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:
> 
> 
> > the pentagon was a coverup... there is no proof of a Boeing jet hitting it.
> ...


wow... so quick to insult?


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:


> Jewelz said:
> 
> 
> > Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:
> ...


Well, you didn't make it very hard for him.


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## R6JUNKIE (Mar 5, 2005)

these things take time,alot of time people dont change over night. you cant expect a goverment to be flawless over night or resistance just to walk away.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

nomaddan said:


> Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:
> 
> 
> > Jewelz said:
> ...


Just because my opinion is different from you guys does not make it a reason to insult me directly...

If you cannot prove your point, dont revert to insulting someone...


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:


> nomaddan said:
> 
> 
> > Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:
> ...


Don't expect to be taken seriously when you make outragous statements that have no bearing on reality.

People saw and heard the thing fly right over the freeway. Mt Dad works near the pentagon, he was out of town that day but he has plenty of friends and co workers that were in the area. I can't believe I actually have to argue this point.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Maybe I read different things than you do.

info


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

there was never a picture shown on the news about a jet hitting the pentagon... only building wreckage... no jet, seats, etc...


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

Maybe you should learn to think for yourself. Look at the facts and stop relying on conspiracy theory monthly so much.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but sometimes being blunt is more efective than being nice.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

well you have different ideas than I do, but Im not going to call you a dumbass for it.... learn to be civil


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

here you go..

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

I just love crockpot theories


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

" In the aftermath, it was reported by media sources that a giant 100 ft. crater was plowed into the front lawn of the Pentagon as the result of a powerful airliner crash? Why does photographic evidence overwhelmingly show that this was absolutely not the case? Why no crater? Why no skid marks? Why no burn marks? Why was the entire world deliberately mislead? Examine the video and photographic evidence for yourself.

How does a Boeing 757, constructed from lightweight aluminum, penetrate over 9 ft. of steel reinforced concrete? Photographs and recently discovered computer animations help shed light on this unexplained feat of physics.

Contrary to the pictures shown to the American public, after the fact, why does photographic evidence taken only a few moments after the Pentagon event show no wreckage on the lawn of the Pentagon? Where is the plane? Where is the tail, the wings, the luggage, the seats, the landing gear; the engines? What happened to the passengers? Examine the photos that you were never meant to see. "


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Exterior photographs are misleading because they show only the intact roof structures of the outer rings and don't reveal that the plane penetrated all the way to the ground floor of the third ring. As a U.S. Army press release noted back on 26 September 2001, one engine of the aircraft punched a 12-foot hole through the wall of the second ring:

On the inside wall of the second ring of the Pentagon, a nearly circular hole, about 12-feet wide, allows light to pour into the building from an internal service alley. An aircraft engine punched the hole out on its last flight after being broken loose from its moorings on the plane. The result became a huge vent for the subsequent explosion and fire. Signs of fire and black smoke now ring the outside of the jagged-edged hole.

3) You'll remember that the aircraft only hit the ground floor of the Pentagon's first ring. Can you find debris of a Boeing 757-200 in this photograph?

You'll recall from the discussions above that the hijacked airliner did not "only hit the ground floor of the Pentagon's first ring" - it struck the Pentagon between the first and second floors and blasted all the way through to the third ring. Because the plane disappeared into the building's interior after penetrating the outer ring, it was not visible in photographs taken from outside the Pentagon. Moreover, since the airliner was full of jet fuel and was flown into thick, reinforced concrete walls at high speed, exploding in a fireball, any pieces of wreckage large enough to be identifiable in after-the-fact photographs taken from a few hundred feet away burned up in the intense fire that followed the crash (just as the planes flown into the World Trade Center towers burned up, and the intensity of their jet-fuel fires caused both towers to collapse).

Small pieces of airplane debris were plainly visible on the Pentagon lawn in other photographs










Give it up, Rigor..


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

post one...


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

here is one from the page I referenced


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom said:


> " In the aftermath, it was reported by media sources that a giant 100 ft. crater was plowed into the front lawn of the Pentagon as the result of a powerful airliner crash? Why does photographic evidence overwhelmingly show that this was absolutely not the case? Why no crater? Why no skid marks? Why no burn marks? Why was the entire world deliberately mislead? Examine the video and photographic evidence for yourself.
> 
> How does a Boeing 757, constructed from lightweight aluminum, penetrate over 9 ft. of steel reinforced concrete? Photographs and recently discovered computer animations help shed light on this unexplained feat of physics.
> 
> ...


Yep and initial media reports are never wrong, Right!

A 757 may be made out of light aluminum but it is still a heavy plane. The thing you are not taking into account is kinetic energy. The energy of a moving object is called kinetic energy. Kinetic Energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity sq. If weight doubles the energy doubles, if speed doubles than energy quadruples. If you factor in a very heavy plane with people, fuel, luggage...etc and then add the speed of over 200mph you get alot of distruction and things tend to dsintegrate, especially that light aluminum you mentioned.

If you look at the pictures the fire ball goes up and out while the plane moves forward an in. everything that came off of that plane will be inside the building not behind it. Newtons Law says an object in motion will stay in motion until acted upon by an equal and opposite force. So when an object hits something going that fast it is going to keep going forward.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Basically the only information I'm getting from Rigor is; Is the Pentagon crash was like an American Reichstag Fire, without any information to fully support the theory other than ThePowerHour.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

it was the man on the grassy knowl


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

MR.FREEZ said:


> it was the man on the grassy knowl
> [snapback]929942[/snapback]​


Damn, he's been busy!


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

sprtslvr785 said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > During the first weeks, the Coalition killed thousands of civilians, destroyed entire neighborhoods: unnecessarily: you might think lightly about that, but you didn't pay that price, Iraqi's did: they lost loved ones and/or their home. So don't be so naieve to think they'd forget about that - just like many Americans (and Westerners in general) see a potential terrorist in every muslim, many Iraqi's see a potential killer in every Coalition soldier.
> ...


Do you really have to use derogative stereo types? BTW, Iraqi farmers and villagers didnt attack on 9-11. Read a newspaper.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

sprtslvr785 said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > During the first weeks, the Coalition killed thousands of civilians, destroyed entire neighborhoods: unnecessarily: you might think lightly about that, but you didn't pay that price, Iraqi's did: they lost loved ones and/or their home. So don't be so naieve to think they'd forget about that - just like many Americans (and Westerners in general) see a potential terrorist in every muslim, many Iraqi's see a potential killer in every Coalition soldier.
> ...


Damn, you really take pride in making yourself look like an ignorant hick, do you?
















According to your logic, not only the Iraqi's, but also the Afghans, Vietnamese, and countless others, have the right to invade and shoot up the USA, after what the US has done to their respective countries - nice line of thought, maestro...

Also, give me just one connection between Iraq and 9/11 that would justify what you have done in Iraq, and we'll talk again








Oh, and while you're fabricating your 'evidence', in the meantime explain why those 1000's of Iraq civilians died by American fire, what for? For your safety? For their own safety? Well???

Dude, if you have no clue what you're talking about, just shut up - it saves you from public embarrasment


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

diddye said:


> Judazzz, I agree they're sick of us being there. But I strongly disagree they want us gone. The vast majority of iraqis want us there until they can stablize themselves. Hell, how many americans WANT to be there? Think they dont want to sleep in their own beds, take a shower daily and have warm meals? those soldiers there want to be out as much as the iraqis want us. Point blank, the americans cant provide security if the people dont take a part in it themselves. you think that gov't can control everything? Coups would never occur if that was true. A gov't is only as strong as its people. Also, people there are pissed about people dying but they dont regret this occupation happened. They know that in the long run, this has been a fruitful and worthwhile venture.[snapback]929361[/snapback]​


I know most Americans over there want to get home as soon as possible, and to be honest, I think they should - not to abandon the Iraqi's and to let them fend for themselves, but to replace US soldiers by a multinational security force with full mandate.
Think of it: what do most Islamic extremists and fundamentalists oppose? The USA. I'm not saying this to get a rise out of anyone - it's a fact: the US is considered the great Satan, not Spain, England, Holland, NATO or the UN.
I think the presence of such a large American occupation force in Iraq is acting like a red towel on a bull, and the scandals from past and present only made matters worse - it attracts terrorists and other shady Islamic figures to Iraq to try to "get even" or to benefit from the continuing chaos. More importantly, it robs the Iraqi government, no matter how democratically it was chosen, authority and thrustworthiness (sp?) due to its direct (and partly unvoluntary) ties to the American forces - not only amongst radical people.
And most importantly, it actually increases division amongst the Iraqi's - not just between religious dividing lines, but also political and cultural.

Replacing Americans by a multinational task force, preferably under a neutral flag, will ease tensions. Wheter it will succeed in the long run I don't know, but has has a better chance than the American approach, often violent and indiscriminate, working dividing (between different groups/factions) and counter-productive.

I'm hopeful that sooner or later Iraq will get its well-deserved rest and stability, but I don't think they will as long as more than 100.000 Americans are occupying it (and wheter actual occupation is the case or not is irrelevant: most Iraqi's see it that way, and _that_ is relevant).


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

well bush has been trying to get others involved, but the most the UN will contribute is "training troops" which is slowly being done. Allawi even got pissed at the UN for being so slow in contributing training forces. No countries that aren't already in iraq want to contribute/help. Some countires are even starting to pull out now that there isn't as big an immediate threat. Hell, when was the last time the UN contributed a lrage multinational force to stabilize a country? I think the most they send is like 10,000...far below that needed for iraq.


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## LFSuperfly144 (Feb 7, 2005)

We freed a country and saved more lives in the long run. Some people are forgeting were not just there because of weapons. They harbered terrorist and terrorist that kill many citizen of america just living there lives dont we owe them something or should international murder go unjust? I think not!


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

anybody hear about the reports out of the NY times that is admitting that there were weapons in iraq and they were evacuated right before the war? They were talking chem weapons


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

diddye said:


> well bush has been trying to get others involved, but the most the UN will contribute is "training troops" which is slowly being done. Allawi even got pissed at the UN for being so slow in contributing training forces. No countries that aren't already in iraq want to contribute/help. Some countires are even starting to pull out now that there isn't as big an immediate threat. Hell, when was the last time the UN contributed a lrage multinational force to stabilize a country? I think the most they send is like 10,000...far below that needed for iraq.
> [snapback]932923[/snapback]​


Yeah, that was (and still is) one of the main problems. But for Afghanistan, it was not that hard to get a multinational force. True, Afghanistan required a lot less troops, but I think the main problem lies in the justification and the haste to invade Iraq - the Americans and British (and a few more countries) stood basically alone with their claims of WDM and terrorists being harboured (and many countries are - rightfully - still waiting for evidence to back up any justifications made), and an invasion of Iraq was clearly not nearly as "simple" a task as overrunning Afganistan.
I know, this falls into the category "Coulda, woulda, shoulda", but the fact remains that the Americans are by far the largest foreign presence in Iraq, which poses the problems I mentioned in my previous post, and which probably also increases the problems of piecing together a multinational force.

But hopefully the US, UK, NATO and UN are mature enough to settle their differences and realise it's not about us, but about the Iraqi's (something which seems to be forgotten often) - after all, despite all the Coalition troops and foreigners that die, it's the (common) Iraqi's that pay the highest price - by a landslide...

LFSuperfly144: Iraq didn't harbour any terrorists (or if so, please be the one to offer the scoop and show us some evidence). Saddam turned down offers by Bin Laden on more than one occasion...
Only after the Saddam regime fell, in the power vacuum that followed, and where everyone basically ran around with their heads up their asses, did terrorist elements like Al-Zarqawi and Al Qaeda enter Iraq, and did Iraqi resistance groups start to emerge and organize. Misjudgement, friendly fire incidents, deliberate human rights violations and scandals such as Abu Ghraib did the rest.
So instead of blaming Iraq, look at the facts for a second and find out who really opened that can of terrorist worms (or more precisely, allowed it to open...)


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> LFSuperfly144: Iraq didn't harbour any terrorists (or if so, please be the one to offer the scoop and show us some evidence). Saddam turned down offers by Bin Laden on more than one occasion...
> 
> [snapback]933163[/snapback]​


Abu Nidal, for one..

http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/abunidal.html


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## nomaddan (Nov 26, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > LFSuperfly144: Iraq didn't harbour any terrorists (or if so, please be the one to offer the scoop and show us some evidence). Saddam turned down offers by Bin Laden on more than one occasion...
> ...


Very nice people often overlook him.

Here is an obvious one:

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm

Not to mention Salma Pac (sp?) which is just outside of Baghdad. They had a 707 there for teaching terrorists how to hijack planes.

http://www.intelmessages.org/Messages/Nati...ssages/826.html


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

I'll say this much; when the flood of new terrorists start hitting american targets and your entire millitary might is occupied fighting a losing battle in the middle east, I'll be glad it's you guys and not me. Nobody pushed you into invading Iraq, nor was it a pressing concern that had to be taken care of. You guys invented as many excuses as possible to go in there, and you still parrot them to this day. So whatever happens in the future, be it the entire middle east deciding they love America and revising the Koran to say "america is great" instead of "god is great" or if your own fuckups catch up to you, just know one thing, it's all on you guys. You wanted it, you started it, it's 100% your mess.


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## Fish_first (Jan 26, 2005)

Does anyone know how hard it is to hide chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction??? A test tube, thats it, a single test tube. Not bigger than the average american cell phone. Hell if 13 year old kids can smuggle a candy bar out of a video monitored gas station... I think a terrorist can make it out of a huge country with one. Plus if the Iraqi people were soooo pissed of (at over 25,000,000 people) don't you think our troops (at 150,000) could stop them from taking over the country?


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Yo man,

Let me ask you this: If there was a serial killer out there, and he wanted your whole family dead, would you wait till he parked outside your house with an AK-47, or would you ask the police to take him out as soon as possible? And if god forbid, some policemen were killed while trying to arrest him, would that not be a tragedy, but yet a necessary risk that they have made a sworn duty to provide?

It's the same with Sadam and the ret of these insane nations that threaten us. We should not wait for them to park outside our homes with deadly weapons - we should neutralize them as soon as possible, and if god forbid our troops are injured, killed, then it's a tragedy, but it's a duty they have sworn to uphold, and that's why we hold them in such high regard and should thank them for their sacrifices every day of our lives. They make every one of our lives, and our lifestyles, possible. I hope i speak for all of us civilians when I say THANK YOU to the members of our armed forces.


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