# Damaged dorsal fin and possible solution.



## naeco (May 8, 2007)

I've included pictures of my 9 inch black Rhom so I can get you advice as of if there's anything I can do get his dorsal fin to grow back into a "normal" dorsal fin.

Any suggestion welcome.

naeco


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

just give it time it will heal on its own, how long has it been like this


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

bob351 said:


> just give it time it will heal on its own, how long has it been like this


I've had him for 6 weeks now and got him like that.


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

ill bet it will grow back, just weird that it has been like that for 6 weeks. 
when my guys get their fins nipped, its back in at most a month, i would just be patient.


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## Puddjuice (Mar 11, 2004)

You can always try to use some aquarium salt, it's not like it's going to hurt anything.


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

Puddjuice said:


> You can always try to use some aquarium salt, it's not like it's going to hurt anything.


What would salt do ?


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

salt is a good all around fix for a lot of injuries, i dont remember the dose, its something like a tsp per gallon, but im not sure, i would research the exact dose. I use it when my fish get hurt, and it works well.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

theres a good article in the information section about salt


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## po0p (Jan 2, 2007)

Aquarium salt and Melafix


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

Is there any chance it might never grow back since it's been 6 weeks and does not seem to have improved at all ?


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## waldron (Jan 15, 2007)

It may be permanet.. i could be wrong but you never know, i have a red who has the same thing a nice big chunk out his his dorsal and it never grew back, i now call him mohawk bob


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

im sure there is a chance of that, but if u treat it with the melafix, and salt, you diminish that chance.
has it gotten better at all since you got him?


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

Nick g said:


> has it gotten better at all since you got him?


I'm not 100% sure but I don't think so.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

You may need to boost your water changes, but thats about it.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I have had fish that have lost the first ray of the dorsal fin....and that ray didnt grow back...but the rest of the fin should fill in I would think...


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

Nick g said:


> im sure there is a chance of that, but if u treat it with the melafix, and salt, you diminish that chance.
> has it gotten better at all since you got him?


I've just got the melafix product so I'll give you guys an update in 1 week.

Thanks for the help


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

If nothing was wrong with the fin, it should have healed within a week or two. If it has gone 6 weeks with no improvement, then it's not likely that it will heal on its own. Sometimes a fin ray will callous over before it has fully healed and growth will not extend beyond what it is now. One way of giving it a second chance is to cut the fin below the part that has healed over so it can regrow. It's going to look funny for about a month and sometimes the rays might grow slightly crooked but you should end up with a full dorsal.

If the melafix doesn't work and the look of the dorsal bothers you (it doesn't look that bad), then I would give it a try.


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

DonH said:


> If nothing was wrong with the fin, it should have healed within a week or two. If it has gone 6 weeks with no improvement, then it's not likely that it will heal on its own. Sometimes a fin ray will callous over before it has fully healed and growth will not extend beyond what it is now. One way of giving it a second chance is to cut the fin below the part that has healed over so it can regrow. It's going to look funny for about a month and sometimes the rays might grow slightly crooked but you should end up with a full dorsal.
> 
> If the melafix doesn't work and the look of the dorsal bothers you (it doesn't look that bad), then I would give it a try.


How would I catch him to do that without putting myself and my fish in danger ?


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## Alexx (Jan 20, 2006)

dont cut your fishes fins.... that is very bad advice


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

Very carefully...:laugh:

You can either use a sedative, like hypno or MS-222 (if you can find it), or have a friend hold it down while you hold the dorsal fin erect with one hand and a quick snip with a SHARP pair of scissors in the other. I have removed a chin bump off a large rhom by myself with a little effort. Just be aware of how the fish is acting and make sure your friend knows how to handle a fish without stressing it out too much. You can usually feel the fish's body tense up right before it starts thrash. If you are not comfortable with handling him, than I don't suggest following through with it. Don't want anyone to get bit nor cause undue stress on the fish. It needs to be done quickly and with either plastic gloves or plastic bags to reduce damage to the slime coat.



piranha-man uk said:


> dont cut your fishes fins.... that is very bad advice


Really? Have you done it before? I'd really like a response to why you think it's a bad idea... Can you tell me what's the difference between having a pair of scissors snip off a bit of the dorsal and have it grow back compared to another piranha biting a chunk of the dorsal and having it grow back? You have seen that happen with piranhas, right? This has been done to MANY fish including high end asian arowanas to correct damage to fins that have healed wrong. The only concern I have is with him not knowing how to handle a piranha.


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## Alexx (Jan 20, 2006)

i didnt say it was a bad idea... i said it was bad advice

do you know the thread starter?
... he could be a young kid with little to no experience handling fish, let alone a piranha out of the water
and what about all the other younguns that come on this site that could read this advice and think,
.... "yeah i'll get my P out and cut his fins cos there a little damaged"

and to say you can sedate it to do it, is even worse advice

... not to mention the fact its totally unnecessary..... a little salt treatment for a couple of weeks will have the fin back to normal.

also what about the stress involved to the fish?
.... i certainly wouldn't get a p out to cut his fins up with a pair of scissors just cos the fin is a little damaged

do you not think netting it will cause the fins more damage and undue stress,
cos its not like rhoms willingly swim into the net and like being caught is it!!
... thrashing about in the net is likely to cause more fin damage than it solves

and to answer this


> Can you tell me what's the difference between having a pair of scissors snip off a bit of the dorsal and have it grow back compared to another piranha biting a chunk of the dorsal and having it grow back


the difference is
.... piranhas nipping fins is a natural instinct and something that propably happends daily in the wild and its very unlikely to stress the fish ,
netting it, holding it down, cutting it with scissors is a little different... dont you think?

and all this "have you ever done it" crap your shouting,
i dont need to do it.... i know how to look after a fish properly

ive sorted out fish in FAR worse condition than this guys rhom without taking them out of the tank, 
sedating them and cutting them up because a fin was slightly damaged

a bit OTT dont you think


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

piranha-man uk said:


> i didnt say it was a bad idea... i said it was bad advice
> 
> do you know the thread starter?
> ... he could be a young kid with little to no experience handling fish, let alone a piranha out of the water
> ...


Tell me, do you honestly think that the dorsal fin will fully grow back after SIX weeks without seeing ANY improvement just by adding a little salt? It likely will not... I did NOT say to cut any fin because it looks a little damaged. Those who no me know that I am very conservative when it comes to treatment advice and only suggest "harsher" means when salt just doesn't cut it. I even took the time to explain WHY it doesn't look like it's going to grow back. Once the rays callous (if that's a word) over, the growth stops. Some people are anal about the look of their fish and want their fish to look perfect (hence my comparison to high end asian aros).

I don't know the original poster but what I state are FACTS. He wanted to know how to fix it and I gave him my method. He does not have to follow it but I would be happy to elaborate on how it's done if he asked.

My comparison of the scissors versus bite was not to analyze stress but rather to illustrate that the dorsal will heal like it does in nature. Yes, there is stress involved (probably more for the one doing the surgery than the fish







) but stress can be reduced if it's planned out and done quickly. It's certainly a lot less stressful than the journey it took from the rivers of South America to his tank. I'm not trying to downplay the stress factor but piranha are very hardy fish and sometimes a fish needs to be netted out for effective treatment whether it be for an antibiotic shot, disinfecting a wound, removing parasites like argulus or anchorworms, or simply moving it to another tank. This is no different except that the fish gets a little snip on the way back to the tank. Just stay away from the end that has the teeth. The rays are a bit difficult to cut through but with a sharp pair of scissors it can be done with one quick motion. I suggest practicing on a few large feeder goldfish to get the feel of it. That's how I started, but that's just me playing the mad scientist...

Also, your comment about it being a worse idea to sedate a fish, I have to ask again... Have you EVER done it? Even though you think I'm shouting crap, I'm not. It's a valid question... Experience goes a LONG way in knowing what works and what doesn't. I would think it's a better idea to sedate a fish rather than not to reduce stress. If you are a vendor and you ship fish, do you use a sedative? If not, why not? And if you do, why is it "worse advice"?

To the original poster: I already said that the dorsal doesn't look that bad but it's doubtful that it's going to grow back if it has not already done so. If it really bothers (which it shouldn't) and you want to give it a try, practice first, prepare, be quick, and most of all, be careful.


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## Alexx (Jan 20, 2006)

you kinda missed what i was getting at mate.

telling an inexperienced person(s) over the internet to sedate and clip his piranhas fins,
for the sake of something cosmetic is pretty risky... surly you can see that?

(and not just him.... what about the other people reading this thread..... people are stupid man)



> Also, your comment about it being a worse idea to sedate a fish, I have to ask again... Have you EVER done it? Even though you think I'm shouting crap, I'm not. It's a valid question... Experience goes a LONG way in knowing what works and what doesn't. I would think it's a better idea to sedate a fish rather than not to reduce stress. If you are a vendor and you ship fish, do you use a sedative? If not, why not? And if you do, why is it "worse advice"?


... and again you missed what i was getting at.... i didn't say its a bad idea to sedate a fish,
what i meant was its a bad idea to tell someone obviously a little inexperienced to sedate their fish because of a slight rip of its fins

and you must know how easy it is for an inexperienced person,
who has never sedated a fish before to over do it with the sedative and kill the fish

sedating a fish is surely an absolute last resort for a serious problem or shipping

and FYI, i import piranhas to the uk so im fully aware of the use of sedatives,
ive had many fish arrive from SA sedated and ive also had to treat quite alot of piranhas for serious problems,
and unfortunately had to do bits of "surgery" myself when needed.

im not having a go at you and im sure you know what your talking about,
i just think its a bit dodgy to suggest this sort of thing for something so minor.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I guess I am having a hard time seeing why this is bad advice? If this was my fish...and I wanted to make efforts to repair the dorsal fin...this is exactly the advice I would want. Do you (piranha-man uk) honestly think it is better to just tell them to live with it? Because that is what you are saying.....that instead of informing members the cause of the problem and a possible remedy...they should be treated as an ignorant child and kept in the dark. I would give people a little more credit when dealing with these fish simply for the fact that there is an inherent fear when dealing with fish that have teeth...so if someone wasnt comfortable handling these fish....there is no way they would try this.

I am all for full disclosure and letting the hobbyist decide if this would be worth the effort.....I dont think we should censor information based on someones skill level....that is not giving hobbyists enough credit imo. Might as well ban these fish altogether...because there is a risk doing anything with these fish.


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## DonH (Jan 25, 2003)

I never assume the experience level of a poster asking any questions... I just try to be as detailed as possible in my posts as to why I think that way and give more details if they ask. We all started somewhere and I can remember the first time I had to knock a fish out to clip a tail (arowana somehow jumped and broke almost every ray up to the body but the tail remained attached). I sought advice from experienced hobbyists on various boards and learned much more than any book I've ever read. The aro woke up before I had a chance to clip the entire tail but I was able to manage and return him back to the tank where he sat on the ground for about a 1/2 hour and then swam normally. If they were all to assume that I was inexperienced (which I was) or "stupid" than I wouldn't have learned anything. Arm them with the tools and let them decide if they are capable...

Importing or receiving tranquilized fish is very different than using tranq on a fish for minor surgery. I'm sure most of us have received fish that are tranq'd but it's always at a much lower concentration to reduce stress rather than to knock them out. I also disagree that sedatives should be an absolute last resort, if you learn how to use it, it's a powerful tool in not only minor surgery but also moving large fish that would otherwise really damage themselves.


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

*DonH*, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. I will try the Metafix for a week or 2 and if theirs no improvement, I'll get back to you so you can tell me step by step how to safely do this.

*Piranha-man uk*, I know you mean well and I appreciate your concern. You are right, I'm no expert but it's exactly why I come to this boars &#8230; I'm here to learn.

I also admit I'm guilty of wanting a perfect piranha !

Thanks for the help,

naeco


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## naeco (May 8, 2007)

I'm going on my 4th day of using Metafix and this sh*t really stink bad !

My fish is really skittish since day 1 of using it and he won't eat as I think the strong smell is really getting to him. After 4 days, I do not see any improvement in its dorsal fin condition and wonder if I should go through with this for the entire recommended treatment (7 days).
*
Do you guys think I should stop using it or finish the treatment for the remaining 3 days ?*


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## waldron (Jan 15, 2007)

Dude just leave it .. man .. stop stressin ur self


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