# Holy Cow look at these results



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

ph 6.2- pretty normal for my tanks
nitrite 0
ammonia 6 ppm
nitrate 10 mg/l

I turned 35% water, like always saturday, do this twice a week, sometimes 3 times.Do gravel one a week.

I keep a thin layer of gravel and vac it real good once a week.

For some reason this time it clouded up on me, I added a large piece of driftwood this week, think I stirred up more then usual.

Did 50% sunday, did 50% yesterday, just finally took readings today,Once my tanks
are cycled I never check my perims unless something like this happens.

Surprised about the ammonia, gonna add some more bio media today and change 50% water again, the extra bio should help once it builds up.

this tanks been going for sometime now.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

I got a 90 gallon dose of biospira, think thats worth adding, or is it just wasting it since I still have nitrate??


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

You may have removed most of your Bio-colony with the back to back 50% water changes ...
I would say let it run and It will clear up in time once the bacteria has built up again ...


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Water changes are not going to mess up your bacteria unless you didnt use enough conditioner to declorinate the water. It does sound like you the bacteria died off but I dont know why. I would add the bio-spira to give it a boost.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> You may have removed most of your Bio-colony with the back to back 50% water changes ...
> I would say let it run and It will clear up in time once the bacteria has built up again ...
> [snapback]1000272[/snapback]​


crazy thing is I do the gravel like this every week,I got 4 filters, 3 have biological media, Im adding some to the fourth, and adding more to another one, hoping that will help with more surface area,so I can keep doing my gravel, have alot of fish in this tank, gotta keep it vaced real good weekly.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Thats where alot of your Bacteria Is , in the rocks ...By Doing gravel vacs back to back if done , thats where the problem to me lies ...
Be cause of the large amount of water in there the bacteria cant re-build fast enough if a great amount is taken out ..
GG is right , the bacteria for the main part is not in the water . It was reccommnded to me when dealing with large tanks ..210 and above to do half of the gravel vac that you would at seperate times (for example ) do one side one week and the other another week , that way the alot of the bacteria is not taken out ..

I too have done gravel vacs all the way through ..
I got into trouble once doing them back to back cuz I saw cloudy water ..My dumb mistake ..I consulted the experts ...(Don H. and Hollywood ) and above is what was told to me ..


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Water changes are not going to mess up your bacteria unless you didnt use enough conditioner to declorinate the water. It does sound like you the bacteria died off but I dont know why. I would add the bio-spira to give it a boost.
> [snapback]1000292[/snapback]​


Thats what I was thinking to, dont know why it would die off, also have 4 biowheels spinning for biological to.

It's a 135 gallon with (14) 6-7" fish, have been there for monthes, so heavy water changes has always been going on.

Im guessing my gravel bed is helping to support the load alot more then I thought.
Hopefully the new media added will help, so I can keep hammering the gravel vac once a week.

Used some volcanic substrate for media Ill see how it works.I dumped the biospira right on, hopefully Ill get some good build up on that new media.

On my 240 gallon I did 50% changes for 2 weeks straight everyday, and this never happend.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> Thats where alot of your Bacteria Is , in the rocks ...By Doing gravel vacs back to back if done , thats where the problem to me lies ...
> Be cause of the large amount of water in there the bacteria cant re-build fast enough if a great amount is taken out ..
> GG is right , the bacteria for the main part is not in the water . It was reccommnded to me when dealing with large tanks ..210 and above to do half of the gravel vac that you would at seperate times (for example ) do one side one week and the other another week , that way the alot of the bacteria is not taken out ..
> 
> ...


Ok I see, I only did the gravel once, when I do the water changes 2-3 times a week, gravel is only done once a week, but I do it all once.

Thats a good idea, your thinking maybe do half one week and half the other???
Makes sense, this tank isnt that big just 135 but heavily stocked


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The larger the tank, the more bacteria will reside on the glass, rocks and decor. This could be an issue only because the amount of bacteria in your filters will only be enough to support the current bio-load. If enough of that bio-load is suported by the bacteria in the rocks/glass/decor then adding more filtration will not increase the bio-filtration capabilities enough to prevent a small spike when you clean the gravel. However, I still do not think this was the deciding factor because even if you removed all the gravel...instead of just vacuming it...I would not expect a spike of this magnitude....and certainly not enough to cloud up your tank. I think you are doing the right thing by adding the bio-spira.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> The larger the tank, the more bacteria will reside on the glass, rocks and decor. This could be an issue only because the amount of bacteria in your filters will only be enough to support the current bio-load. If enough of that bio-load is suported by the bacteria in the rocks/glass/decor then adding more filtration will not increase the bio-filtration capabilities enough to prevent a small spike when you clean the gravel. However, I still do not think this was the deciding factor because even if you removed all the gravel...instead of just vacuming it...I would not expect a spike of this magnitude....and certainly not enough to cloud up your tank. I think you are doing the right thing by adding the bio-spira.
> [snapback]1000323[/snapback]​


o.k so you dont think having more surface area,,(the new volcanic media) the new driftwood should add some more to my biological, this is new and should hold some more.

If the ammonia is new and really high and the nitrite is still at zero, but I have nitrates,I figured it just needed to build back up again away, hopefully on the new media









I did the water changes sunday and yesterday, just thinking it was stirred up from the gravel by adding the new wood, didnt think ammonia, I started to today thatsd why I checked :laugh:

Hopefully it will clear up by tommorrow, added the 90 gallon biospira tteatment, it is a 135 gallon, but I should still have some biological in that filter media.

Ill pass on the gravel vac this week, and try Mr harleys partial gravel next week,

Ill be honest thats gonna bug me not doing all, just cause I always have :laugh:

Heres the cloudy tank, looks like sh*t


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

ammonia spike


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

mashunter18 said:


> ammonia spike
> [snapback]1000427[/snapback]​


Give her time to clear up before any more water changes are done ...
I dont think youll have a prob doing the whole vac on a 135 gallon ...I never did , and still dont ..
I only do the half and half on my 210gallon ..


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

mashunter18 said:


> ammonia spike
> [snapback]1000427[/snapback]​


Give her time to clear up before any more water changes are done ...
I dont think youll have a prob doing the whole vac on a 135 gallon ...I never did , and still dont ..
I only do the half and half on my 210gallon ..
Have you tried Amquel Plus or ammonia lock to try to bring down the ammonia ?


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> mashunter18 said:
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Havnt used either one on this.thought about running up to get some amquel plus.I use other water conditioners.Ill hope the biospira eats it up.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

mashunter18 said:


> MR HARLEY said:
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Dont use it as a Conditioner (Amequel+) , use it to help bring down your ammonia/and or Trate and Trite . You can also use the ammonia lock to help ..
Those stated above are condition or deteriants not Live bacteria like (Bio-Spira ) 
the amequel plus and ammonia lock have no out come on your Bacteria colony .


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

MR HARLEY said:


> mashunter18 said:
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I thought amqeul plus was just a water conditioner that helped fight ammonia.Used ammoloc before.

Im just hoping the biospira, like when you are cycling a tank with it, you add it when you have ammonia, hoping that same thing will work now.

I may get some of that amquel plus after dinner if it doesnt look to be clearing up somewhat.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

mashunter18 said:


> MR HARLEY said:
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This is amquelPlus ...








description 
Removes all forms of ammonia. Also removes toxic organics, chlorine and chloramines. Will not interfere with nitrogen cycle or affect the PH. Good for fresh or salt water aquariums.
this is reg. Amquel 








description
Adding amquel to aquarium or pond water quickly removes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine. Amquel is nontoxic to all aquarium inhabitants or biological filters as well as to humans and pets. It removes chlorine without sodium thiosulphate. Equally effective.

Using bio-spira yes is live bacteria , but I dont think ammonia has anything to do with it , you actually when cycling have to introduce ammonia when using bio-spira , IMHO for fear of ammonia spike later ..


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Cool deal man, Ill get some, thanks


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Anytime friend


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