# Lowering the PH naturally



## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Ok, I have dead fishies in there, will it lower the PH? or just mess up the nitrate and nitrite and ammonia? right now my new tank is good but the ph it soo high for my lil 1.5 inch black diamond piranha


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

Dead fish? As in food fish, or as in some of your Ps have died? You don't want any dead bodies in there decomposing, or your water quality will go downhill fast.

There are natural ways to lower pH (avoid those pH lowering chemicals like the plague!







), such as adding bogwood, filtering through peat, and injecting CO2. Before you do it though, what is your current pH, and also your KH?


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## CTREDBELLY (Apr 8, 2005)

take dead fish and un eaten food out ASAP it will ROT DECAY and cause ammonia spikes then Nitrite spikes causing unneeded stress and even death.

whats your PH at currently and if its a new tank please post the rest of the water piramaters.

to lower it try using driftwood or peat in the filters


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

Peat Granule, Peat Moss, Driftwood, or Blackwater extract should lower your pH depending on how much you need lowered.


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> Dead fish? As in food fish, or as in some of your Ps have died? You don't want any dead bodies in there decomposing, or your water quality will go downhill fast.
> 
> There are natural ways to lower pH (avoid those pH lowering chemicals like the plague!
> 
> ...


my ph is like..really really high i need to lower it, it's very alkaline, i added some ph down and some blackwater extract. do i put more black water extract? CAN i put more? cuz i went to this site that told me exactly how much to put. i took the dead fishes out and no i wouldnt let a piranha die...that's just cruel....i had some half eaten feeder fishes (yes i know feeders are bad but i dont really care about that chemical that stops growing) my nitrate is 0 and my nitrate is abour 20. my ammonia is good too, just that my ph is too high for the piranha....i know they like it 7.0 or lower correct?


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

A pH between 5.5-8 is fine - piranha's are very adaptable fish. Can you be a bit more specific about the pH of your tank's water?
If you have zero ammonia and nitrItes, and detectable nitrAtes, your tank is cycled - decaying food or fish can easily cause an ammonia spike (and a subsequent nitrIte spike) however, so take it out once feeding time's over (don't let it in the tank for more than an hour).

Nice attitude about the Thiaminase problem btw. - really shows your care and commitment towards your fish...


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> A pH between 5.5-8 is fine - piranha's are very adaptable fish. Can you be a bit more specific about the pH of your tank's water?
> If you have zero ammonia and nitrItes, and detectable nitrAtes, your tank is cycled - decaying food or fish can easily cause an ammonia spike (and a subsequent nitrIte spike) however, so take it out once feeding time's over (don't let it in the tank for more than an hour).
> 
> Nice attitude about the Thiaminase problem btw. - really shows your care and commitment towards your fish...
> ...


well, the thing is, all i have is a small tank so i think it's best if he stays small so less stress, i'm strapped for cash so i am not gonna go and buy a 40 gal for just one RBP. so i really do love him/her/it. the PH in the new tank is about 7.5 or so. i use those chem where u put 3 drops in the 5ml of water and it becomes BLUE to the max! after i put the blackwater extraact it made it alot better...but still blue. not even a pinch of greeness.. (hope u know what i'm talking about..)


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

If it "stays small" it usually means it's stunted. This is not something a person who cares about their fish would want to happen.

7.5 is fine for a RBP. It's just the alkaline side of neutral - not very high.

You also need to know your KH level before messing with pH. If the KH is low, you could eaily cause a pH crash. If it's very high, then adding all the chemicals in the world won't give you a low pH - it'll just make your pH unstable.

Fish are happier with a higer pH which is stable than a lower one which fluctuates all over the place. Leave your pH as it is and your fish will be fine in it.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Scarlet said:


> If it "stays small" it usually means it's stunted. This is not something a person who cares about their fish would want to happen.[snapback]1069974[/snapback]​


Exactly: if a fish stays small because it lives in too small a tank, it's not because it adjusts to the size of the tank (that's a myth - fish don't do that), but because its development and growth are disrupted and corrupted because of lack of space - stunted fish are likely to die very prematurely...


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Scarlet said:
> 
> 
> > If it "stays small" it usually means it's stunted. This is not something a person who cares about their fish would want to happen.[snapback]1069974[/snapback]​
> ...


HOLY CRAP!!!! OMG!!! MY RBP!!! well...i'll move him to the 30 gal......what is the KH level? never heard of that....please edu-macate me..


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

Sorry, I should have explained. KH is Karbonate Hardness. Basically, it's the buffering capacity your water has - its ability to resist pH swings. Water with high KH has a more stable pH than water with low KH.

If you go messing with pH in low KH water, without a clear idea of what you're doing, then you could cause a pH crash which will kill your fish. If you're trying to alter pH is a KH tank, then you might get the pH to drop, but you'll struggle to keep it there because the KH will buffer it back up, meaning your pH will fluctuate = very bad for the fish.

If your pH is 7.5, RBP will live perfectly happily in that.


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> Sorry, I should have explained. KH is Karbonate Hardness. Basically, it's the buffering capacity your water has - its ability to resist pH swings. Water with high KH has a more stable pH than water with low KH.
> 
> If you go messing with pH in low KH water, without a clear idea of what you're doing, then you could cause a pH crash which will kill your fish. If you're trying to alter pH is a KH tank, then you might get the pH to drop, but you'll struggle to keep it there because the KH will buffer it back up, meaning your pH will fluctuate = very bad for the fish.
> 
> ...


well...really, i'm trying to move the little 1.5 inch piranha in there but the ph in the tank is like...6.6 or something...and to put it into a ph with 7.5 all of a sudden would really be bad....


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

So you need to do it gradually to acclimatise him. Mix a little of the new water with the stuff he's in right now, wait about 30 minutes, then add a little more and so on. If you do this for a couple of hours, you should be OK to move the fish.


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> So you need to do it gradually to acclimatise him. Mix a little of the new water with the stuff he's in right now, wait about 30 minutes, then add a little more and so on. If you do this for a couple of hours, you should be OK to move the fish.
> [snapback]1070142[/snapback]​


yeah, for the RBP, i think it's best if i give him to the fish store since all of my tanks are too small for him...and he obviously cant be housed with the lil 1.5 inch...will carbon filters take the KH out? or what?


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

No, carbon won't change KH. You don't want KH taken out anyway. If you had no KH, your water would be extremely unstable and dangerous to your fish.

If your Black Diamond is a Black Rhom, it will grow bigger than the RBP. You'll need an even bigger tank for it.


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> No, carbon won't change KH. You don't want KH taken out anyway. If you had no KH, your water would be extremely unstable and dangerous to your fish.
> 
> If your Black Diamond is a Black Rhom, it will grow bigger than the RBP. You'll need an even bigger tank for it.
> [snapback]1070166[/snapback]​


yea but according to aquascape, i dont need a bigger tank NOW but later...so far, i've transferred the 1.5 inch to the bigger tank. his breathing seems to of slowed down....so that's good. How could i get KH? is it in tap water naturally? it shoul dbe correct?


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

Yes, KH is already in your tap water. Soft water tends to have low KH, and hard water usually has higher. If your KH is very low, the water will tend towards instability.


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> Yes, KH is already in your tap water. Soft water tends to have low KH, and hard water usually has higher. If your KH is very low, the water will tend towards instability.
> [snapback]1072721[/snapback]​


how do i lower my KH??!?


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

theanimedude said:


> Scarlet said:
> 
> 
> > Dead fish? As in food fish, or as in some of your Ps have died? You don't want any dead bodies in there decomposing, or your water quality will go downhill fast.
> ...


pH Down is worthless because it has absolutely no buffering capacity.
Use Seachem Acid Buffer instead, and also keep some peat granuals in your filtrations system.
Monitor regularly at first 'til it's consistent.


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

theanimedude said:


> how do i lower my KH??!?
> [snapback]1074562[/snapback]​


Have you even tersted your KH? How do you know it needs lowering?


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> theanimedude said:
> 
> 
> > how do i lower my KH??!?
> ...


i dont have the KH test kit, dono where to get it, they dont have it at the LSF so far, unless i'm blind which is most of the time...i've put alot of good bacteria into that tank, and i mean alot of it. i took my filter, that cotton like thing with carbon in it and i shook it in the new tank and all that nasty stuff came out....and still the ph is high....i'm scared to do a water change cuz i'm scared that it might keep the ph too high...


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## Powder (Nov 24, 2004)

all that really matters as far as ph is concerned is stability i have 4 rbp's and they are in a ph of 8+ and i have had no probs cant lower because of rediculously high kh so i leave it and have had absolutly no probs whatsoever 
as long as the ph doesnt change your ok 
later


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Powder said:


> all that really matters as far as ph is concerned is stability i have 4 rbp's and they are in a ph of 8+ and i have had no probs cant lower because of rediculously high kh so i leave it and have had absolutly no probs whatsoever
> as long as the ph doesnt change your ok
> later
> [snapback]1075397[/snapback]​


hey! i got a drift wood which i soaked for a couple of hours, it didnt leak alot of tannin so i thought it was ok. and NOW YOU TELL ME! aww man that damn wood was 15 bucks! >_<


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

I DID tell you. You ignored it. Read the last sentence of my post number 8.

"Fish are happier with a higher pH which is stable than a lower one which fluctuates all over the place. Leave your pH as it is and your fish will be fine in it."


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> I DID tell you. You ignored it. Read the last sentence of my post number 8.
> 
> "Fish are happier with a higher pH which is stable than a lower one which fluctuates all over the place. Leave your pH as it is and your fish will be fine in it."
> [snapback]1077125[/snapback]​


>_< poo!!! well atelast it's still a high PH, but well, the thing that caught me off guard was how aquascape said that the water should be 6-7 ph and that was for black piranha's. >_< well thank you Scarlet! you're awesome!


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## Scarlet (Apr 15, 2004)

There are few fish that won't adapt to a higher pH if acclimatised properly. The most important thing is that it's stable. Your Ps will be fine in your pH.


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## theanimedude (Jun 4, 2005)

Scarlet said:


> There are few fish that won't adapt to a higher pH if acclimatised properly. The most important thing is that it's stable. Your Ps will be fine in your pH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks Scarlet! you're the best! right now he hides under the dirftwood and snatches at the guppies now and then it's kinda kool.... I just need to wait until it's mouth is big enough to eat meats....


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