# Wild P.nattereri? yes or no?



## marco (Jan 2, 2003)

im am making this thread for someone in my area who is trying to sell these off to me as wild. they do not appear to be Ternetzi to me... and lack the coloration wild reds have. one of them has red eyes. they seem to be just regular p.nattereri lacking color

please give your input. thanks


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

pygocentrus nattereri.. you can call them what you want.


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## marco (Jan 2, 2003)

Trigga said:


> pygocentrus nattereri.. you can call them what you want.


ternetzi variant grow bigger than 12" , regular reds dont. i just really wanna make sure


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

did the person say they were terns? they appear to have red anal fins, so i would say those are just natts that are really lacking in color... wild or cb, you'll just have to decide on whether you wanna take his word for it.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> ternetzi variant grow bigger than 12" , regular reds dont. i just really wanna make sure


marco, are you still into that? There is only a slight size difference and its very slight. All look like Amazonian P. nattereri, however that photo quality ain't that great. As for being wild caught. who knows.


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## Steve. (Jun 8, 2009)

Look like Reds to me.


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## marco (Jan 2, 2003)

hastatus said:


> > ternetzi variant grow bigger than 12" , regular reds dont. i just really wanna make sure
> 
> 
> marco, are you still into that? There is only a slight size difference and its very slight. All look like Amazonian P. nattereri, however that photo quality ain't that great. As for being wild caught. who knows.


thanks frank


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## Ja'eh (Jan 8, 2007)

joedizzlempls said:


> did the person say they were terns? they appear to have red anal fins, so i would say those are just natts that are really lacking in color... wild or cb, you'll just have to decide on whether you wanna take his word for it.


Actually terns sometimes have a bit of red on their anal fins, I've owned two over the years that had red coloring on their anal fins. These fish appear to be regular ol reds, whether they are wild or captive bred you'll never really know unless you plucked them out of the river yourself.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

Or slice one.
Don't captive bred have an extra bone, compared to wild caught specimen ?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Lucien Posted Feb 7 2010, 09:01 PM
> Or slice one.
> Don't captive bred have an extra bone, compared to wild caught specimen ?


The bones are actually serrae (scutes or saw) that runs along the fishes belly. Captive bred tend to exceed range counts of wild caught.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

hastatus said:


> > Lucien Posted Feb 7 2010, 09:01 PM
> > Or slice one.
> > Don't captive bred have an extra bone, compared to wild caught specimen ?
> 
> ...


Does that mean that captive bred and wildcaught can be distinguished from the outside, by counting scutes ?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Lucien said:


> Does that mean that captive bred and wildcaught can be distinguished from the outside, by counting scutes ?


My guess is that there are too many variants between breeders to make a general rule like that. I doubt that all captive bred nattereri carry the same characteristics. This probably applies when fish are constantly inbred&#8230;which is not the practice of all breeders.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> Does that mean that captive bred and wildcaught can be distinguished from the outside, by counting scutes ?


Yes or more specifically, a radiogram is taken of the fish skeletal and the count begins.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

hastatus said:


> > Does that mean that captive bred and wildcaught can be distinguished from the outside, by counting scutes ?
> 
> 
> Yes or more specifically, a radiogram is taken of the fish skeletal and the count begins.


But are these exact figures, or are we talking about a certain range ? Like wild caught has 20-25 and captive bred 22-27 (numbers just a wild guess), overlapping each other ?
In other words, is there a specific character by which one can identify a single specimen as wildcaught or captive bred ?


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## Armand_caribe (Sep 9, 2009)

Trigga said:


> pygocentrus nattereri.. you can call them what you want.


Hahaha, I do agree Trigga. Not few times some "smart" sellers claim they' re selling wild caught or super reds just to make the costumer pay a higher price for a regular RBP.....

The only way you could get wild caught for sure is to get em out of the river yourself....


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

or have a lfs/sponser that wont lie to you


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## Buckman (Jan 10, 2007)

yep. they're natts alright.


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## the keeper (Jan 16, 2010)

have a lfs not lie to you?lol, have of them dont even know what they have.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

hence why i dont deal with LFS's and only the sponsers


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## yeayea123 (Feb 12, 2005)

natts


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## RuthlessCarnage (Apr 1, 2010)

I wouldn't take the guys word on them being "wild reds" if he got them at a LFS unless he got them from a breeder that had them imported from family like a breeder I used to know who got rid of his to pay for school. He paid a lot for each fish too since they only come in as adults since smaller ones wouldn't survive the trip and they wouldn't import them even if they found them.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

They bring in a lot of small wild reds.


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## JP3778 (Jan 7, 2010)

Look like RBP's to me. If they are wild, pay more if you buy em?


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