# Substrate Question



## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

Hi, i dont know if you seen any of my last posts but, i recently enquire whole setup 55 gal. i'm going all out of this tank with live plant and so forth, it already has black gravel in there. My question is would live plants benfit alot from a substrate like Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate. The tank has already been cycled and so forth and P's been in there for a month now. So if the live plants would benfit alot from the substrate could i just get that substrate and pour in it and mix it with the black gravel or would there be a better method to it? also would the benfit be enough to go through all the hassle? I want to have everything good before i go all out with a bunch of live plants. Lastly i'm pretty sure gravle isn't great for live plants either, but i wasn't planning on getting addicted to all this.







please let me know


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Hi Han

There are many options. Yes, substrates such as eco-complete, flourite, flora base--and many options out there can help by just 'pouring it in.' I did that with my 1st planted tank, and it worked fine. It just can get cloudy and sort of messy at first. I also removed about 80% of the regular gravel when I did it.

But you asked if there was a better method to it. The answer to that is how intricate/thought out you want to make it. Setting up your tank dry from the start with your plants in mind works best, but you already have fish, and an established tank.

The bad thing about regular gravel and plants is there is no nutrients in regular gravel, and rotting stuff from your tank can easily get in it and it is hard to and not very advised to 'gravel vac' a planted tank. But it works, depending on what sort of planted tank you want to run.


----------



## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

ic, so if i was going to get a substrate with nutrients take about 80% of the gravle out? should i just get all eco-complete or all some sort of Seachem Onxy sand? or mixture of both? lastly what do you think is the best method of putting the new substrate into it? just remove all old gravel and pour in new? also i wanted to thank you for all the great info and helping me


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

HaN said:


> ic, so if i was going to get a substrate with nutrients take about 80% of the gravle out? should i just get all eco-complete or all some sort of Seachem Onxy sand? or mixture of both? lastly what do you think is the best method of putting the new substrate into it? just remove all old gravel and pour in new? also i wanted to thank you for all the great info and helping me


no prob man

I took 80% of my gravel out, that is up to you. Also, I would like to add that there are very good substrates out there that are very cheap compared to onyx/flourite/eco-complete. And there are many ways to set up your substrate. There is no 1 right way.

You can add a bottom layer of soaked sphagnum peat, laterite, etc, but I dont suggest peat unless you started with a dry tank. either way, you will get very cloudy water for a few days adding it with the water already in the tank. I did it even with neons in the tank and they were fine though.

You can buy Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil at most any gardening center, and it is WAY cheaper than the name brands, and it works great.. but it is lighter than a lot of substrates and you have to be careful during water changes not to send it flying all over the tank. And it comes in like an orangish color that isn't the best looking.

There is another alternative that IMO, although light, is a great substrate. Even cheaper than the Shultz stuff. It's called Soilmaster Select 'Charcoal.' It is used for baseball fields! You can order it at any Lesco stores. They didn't have the color I wanted (charcoal) so I ordered it online (www.lesco.com) and it was shipped to my local Lesco store at no extra cost.

If you get one of these cheaper substrates, just remember the quality is the same if not better, and not to be in a hurry to pour the water in. I personally set up my substrate like this for my 
low light setup But you can't do it like that with the water in..

You will get lots of different answers when it comes to aquarium plants, so think it all through before you go for it.


----------



## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

is there a different between the eco-complete substrate and the seachem onxy sands?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I've heard that Eco-complete buffers the water (raises pH) and leeches phosphates for a few months.. but I've seen great tanks with both substrates.

Just my opinion...

I will never spend that much $$ on substrate again. $17 including tax for a 50lb bag of soilmaster that fills a 75g perfectly downright makes buying those substrates silly to me.

Yeah, the soilmaster is a bit light.. but compare that to over $100 to fill your tank with name brand stuff... when lights, CO2, fish, plants.. etc etc cost tons too.


----------



## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

hm... if i were to go name brand how much lbs would i need to fill a 55 gal?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hmm 75-100? not sure


----------



## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

20lb back of the fluorite for 11.50
















Petsmart


----------



## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

do you know about how many lbs for 55 gal? to get about 2 in of substrate? and petsmart has it for 11.50 a bag?


----------



## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

HaN said:


> do you know about how many lbs for 55 gal? to get about 2 in of substrate? and petsmart has it for 11.50 a bag?


No, at petsmart the regular price is 24.99
There is a place online that is selling it for 11.50 a bag. I took a print out of the fluorite and got 3 bags for 11.50 each. It says that a 20lb bag will cover a 10gal with 2" coverage. I used a gravel/fluorite mix. @ 1.5:1


----------



## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I've heard that Eco-complete buffers the water (raises pH) and leeches phosphates for a few months.. but I've seen great tanks with both substrates.


This was with the contaminated batch of eco complete. The contaminated batch will raise calcium and phosphate to ungodly levels. If your batch isn't contaminated, I've heard that the stuff is great. I'm about to set up a tank with the stuff so I'll let you know.

Onyx looks great but will buffer KH/GH very high. Not good if you want a soft water tank... and most plants enjoy soft water.

I think that the Soilmaster would be the way I would go if I were to set up a large tank. Nice substrate, has nutrients... and is cheap.

Check local landscape supply places. I found a place that sells the EXACT same thing as flourite for $10 per 6 gal bucket... thats around 60-80lbs for 10 bucks. Jackpot!


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Gumby said:


> I've heard that Eco-complete buffers the water (raises pH) and leeches phosphates for a few months.. but I've seen great tanks with both substrates.


This was with the contaminated batch of eco complete. The contaminated batch will raise calcium and phosphate to ungodly levels. If your batch isn't contaminated, I've heard that the stuff is great. I'm about to set up a tank with the stuff so I'll let you know.

Onyx looks great but will buffer KH/GH very high. Not good if you want a soft water tank... and most plants enjoy soft water.

I think that the Soilmaster would be the way I would go if I were to set up a large tank. Nice substrate, has nutrients... and is cheap.

Check local landscape supply places. I found a place that sells the EXACT same thing as flourite for $10 per 6 gal bucket... thats around 60-80lbs for 10 bucks. Jackpot!








[/quote]
yep yep, like i said, no reason to pay seachems prices when you know what you are looking for ..great find


----------



## H4N (Nov 10, 2005)

thx guys i'll look around


----------



## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

I didnt mind paying 11.50 per bag. Although id love to buy stuff that is similiar for a fraction of the cost. If I call around what in specfic do I ask for?


----------



## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

Ex0dus said:


> I didnt mind paying 11.50 per bag. Although id love to buy stuff that is similiar for a fraction of the cost. If I call around what in specfic do I ask for?


www.lesco.com <<go there and check for a store near you. Then check to see if your store has 'Soilmaster Select 'Charcoal'
My store had Soilmaster, but not in charcoal color, so I ordered some to pick up at the store. it was there in like 3 days, and no extra charge.


----------

