# Interbreeding



## hastatus

IN a word; yes. Long before we had this discussion, actually years ago, I held that perhaps these variotypes of S. spilopleura, S. rhombeus etc., might be the result of interbreeding. When I first presented to a scientist in DNA research, he disagreed because of the idea that it was physically impossible. With the newer information surfacing on DNA pertaining to S. spilopleura (2002) this type of thinking of piranas not interbreeding is heading out the door.

Just thought I would share.


----------



## JesseD

thanks for the information, Frank.









that is *very* interesting


----------



## Judazzz

JesseD said:


> that is *very* interesting


Indeed! 
*_runs off to get his own DIY piranha interbreeding kit_*









Thanks for sharing, Frank...


----------



## NIKE

thanks very much frank for that info


----------



## thePACK

piraya and cariba mix..sounds nice..thanks for sharing frank


----------



## hastatus

> thePACK Posted on Jul 20 2003, 06:10 AM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> piraya and cariba mix..sounds nice..thanks for sharing frank


 Lets not get ahead of ourselves, these are results from DNA and still in infancy of discovery. So far in limited localities that seems to be the appearance. Until more samples are obtained its still an hypothesis, though an interesting one.


----------



## Grosse Gurke

Interesting...and it would explain quite a bit with some of the fish popping up with the characteristics of a 2 different species.








Thanks Frank


----------



## Xenon

can you share the DNA results or publications? This is extremely interesting!


----------



## hastatus

> Xenon Posted on Jul 21 2003, 06:15 PM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> can you share the DNA results or publications? This is extremely interesting!


 I plan to add that to each species that has been sequenced. As I explained to another person telephonically, species taxon names are all but arbitrary if one goes by this process alone.


----------



## LaZy




----------



## tinyteeth

imagine if they possibly mixed an elong with piraya!


----------



## EMJAY

man i wish i knew what he was talking about


----------



## GARGOYLE

haha, this is some cool information.


----------



## DiXoN

EMJAY said:


> man i wish i knew what he was talking about


 funny

this is intresting though i would like to know more on the subject.
dixon


----------



## fishofury

thanks for the info Frank


----------



## v4p0r

can ternz and reds be interbred??


----------



## hastatus

> v4p0r Posted on Sep 6 2003, 04:20 AM
> can ternz and reds be interbred??


 no valid reason why they couldn't.


----------



## Guest

hastatus said:


> v4p0r Posted on Sep 6 2003, 04:20 AM
> can ternz and reds be interbred??
> 
> 
> 
> no valid reason why they couldn't.
Click to expand...

 that's good....


----------



## BRUNER247

Bump


----------



## Piranha_man

Bumpin' a 7 1/2 year old thread... right on!


----------



## r1dermon

i wonder whatever happened with this? any new evidence to talk about? does anyone have info? this would be an awesome topic.


----------



## memento

Good bump Bruner.

This seems to be very outdated. By now we differentiate spilos from macs and the moment we did that, spawnings happened. Orti and Freeman has shown us, rhombeus is a complex form of at least three different DNA strings. So not a product of interbreeding, but a complex that has not been differentiated yet.

I do not believe interbreeding is possible. In nature, it usually is impossible to get a fertile offspring from interbreeding.

I'm more led to believe that the lack of breeding succes, is mainly caused by us trying to interbreed species we consider the same. Like rhoms. One should not even try breeding them, as long as we know three different strings of DNA in one "species".

Regarding the question if terns and reds can be interbred : technically it would not be interbreeding, for they are considered the same species. There is howver always the possibility they are evolving into different species. They are two populations that have been separated for centuries. They will adapt to their natural habitat and that can lead to diversication.

We'll just need more DNA research for this matter.


----------



## BRUNER247

Thanks combi at least a couple members were interested. I've found a few old topics that I wouldn't mind bumping up, but I figured some would cry about it. Shame we don't re-visit some of these ancient threads. Imo anyhow.


----------



## CLUSTER ONE

BRUNER247 said:


> Thanks combi at least a couple members were interested. I've found a few old topics that I wouldn't mind bumping up, but I figured some would cry about it. Shame we don't re-visit some of these ancient threads. Imo anyhow.


This is pretty interesting. I don't think anybody will care if stuff like this i bumped. People get annoyed when some topic from years ago on "what to feed my p's?" or some other question that now makes no difference to anybody really is bumped.


----------



## memento

Problem with topics like this, is that it's more about science then hobby... and that usually is a conflict on a hobby forum.

And of course, some things are hard to update since there is still no complete DNA research including all species.
A while ago I started a topic about an expected revision of the Pritsobrycon genus. Looking at the Freeman and Orti researches, I believe Pristobrycon should be revised into a genus with only striolatus in it, with the other now accepted species being moved into the Serrasalmus genus.

I had to agree completely with something Frank remarked though : not all species are included in that research, so we should be carefull with assumptions and conclusions...


----------



## BRUNER247

We need a fund for some piranha DNA work. Lol


----------



## Johnny_Zanni

BRUNER247 said:


> We need a fund for some piranha DNA work. Lol


I agree.

Careospinus I believe belongs in the Serrasalmus genus...


----------



## Piranha-Freak101

Very interesting thread


----------



## memento

Both the Orti and the Freeman phylogeny show very clear that P.striolatus, P.denticulata and C.mento are closer related to one another, while P.calmoni and P.aureus were closer related to the Serrasalmus genus.
Of course careospinus and macullipinnis were that new, they were not included in the research. So it indeed is hard to jump to conclusions, for morphologically those two resemble striolatus closer - they also lack a preanal spine and ectopterygoïd teeth.

Raise that fund... you guys have the biggest access to the species of the world ! While over here it is even impossible for me to collect preserved specimen for comparison, simply because most specimen are not even there !


----------



## jp80911

would this be a possible hybrid?


----------



## memento

No. Though it might be an interesting one for the S.eigenmanni / P.aureus studies


----------



## Inflade

excellent bump!


----------



## RedBellyKing

even though this is years old i am extremely interested in this subject







so could somebody please give us some 2014 updates


----------



## BRUNER247

Be nice huh. Nothings gonna change if nobody is working on it.


----------



## memento

There isn't much to update I'm afraid. 
Even new species descriptions once boasted about, seem to be pending for over 2 years now.
Apparently even the scientists came to agree that taxonomy is such a big mess, new descriptions or revisions should be postponed untill sufficiënt DNA research has been involved to clear up the mess.

As for the interbreeding topic - well why not. After all the entire family of Serrasalmids has different origins than the ones we took for facts.


----------



## Dairy Whip

Interesting stuff.


----------

