# Beginners questions



## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Hi I recently purchased a 20 gallon aqaurium and filled it with spring water. I have 1 1/2 inch of gravel on the bottom, various fake plants, and a log on the bottom of the tank. I started the filter and 15 min later started the heater and let the tank run for 24 hours. It is now 78 degrees. I have 3 questions?

1- Is spring water ok to use?
2- Is adding salt to the tank a must?
3- I missed the cycling article =( and (after 24 hours) put 3 1.5 inch red bellies and 6 guppies in the tank and fear they will die? because my tank is not cycled.

P.S Any other suggestions would be appreciated.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

Welcome to the site. The more reading you do the better and you will soon get the hang of it.

Firstly I am not sure of spring water but I shouldn't imagine it will be too much of a problem. Without testing the water I am unsure if everything will be ok. Normal tap water must be treated for Chlorine and Chloramines with a water conditioner, I'm unsure about springwater.

Adding salt to to a P tank is certainly not a must and should ideally be reserved for treatment of disease and wounds.

Cycling should always be done before adding any livestock but most fish keepers starting out ,like yourself, never did!! You have the fact that P's are a hardy fish on your side but they will be subjected to harsh conditions over the first month. Ammonia spikes and Nitrite and there is a possibility it will prove fatal in such a small tank.

Try not to get your p's on live food initially, vary their diet with frozen yet thawed white fish and shrimp etc.. Reserve live for personal enjoyment and "treats" for your fish.

The final issue is that tank is far too small to warrant 2 P's for very long. The usual rule is 20 gallon per fish and I consider this to be too little. I would stick to more 30 gallon per fish. The fish you have should be given the room to grow to their potential foot ish in size. They will grow to 6" in a very quick time, about an inch a month.


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## xplosivelikec4 (May 10, 2004)

azeral26 said:


> Hi I recently purchased a 20 gallon aqaurium and filled it with spring water. I have 1 1/2 inch of gravel on the bottom, various fake plants, and a log on the bottom of the tank. I started the filter and 15 min later started the heater and let the tank run for 24 hours. It is now 78 degrees. I have 3 questions?
> 
> 1- Is spring water ok to use?
> 2- Is adding salt to the tank a must?
> ...


when your talking about spring water are you referring to bottled water? If you are then. I dont recommend using that. Ive read somewhere in an article that the filtering process for bottle water removes certain "nutrients" in the water that fish need to survive. not only that its gonna get pretty expensive. just get a water testing kit and test your tap.

No you dont need to add salt but i do just as a preventative to keep some parasites at bay.

if you didnt cycle then i suggest you leave the guppies in there and put the p somewhere else for now. if not then you'll need to make water changes like a madman so that your ammonia doesnt spike. i've never read about cycling either and ended up throwing my fish in the tank. I do 2 water changes a week so the ammonia has no chance of rising. but if i let the tank go for 3 weeks then my ammonia will spike like crazy because its not cycled.


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

[quote name='xplosivelikec4' date='Dec 28 2004, 03:26 PM']
when your talking about spring water are you referring to bottled water? If you are then. I dont recommend using that. Ive read somewhere in an article that the filtering process for bottle water removes certain "nutrients" in the water that fish need to survive. not only that its gonna get pretty expensive. just get a water testing kit and test your tap.

Well the water was in a jug called "Spring Water". I bought it because I read on another piranha site to use that instead of bottled water.

How often should I change the water to make sure I keep the ammonia down because of my goof. I want these fish to live and I have no other tank. =(

Also I have 20 pounds of frozen halibut I won't eat so can I thaw it out and feed that to them a little at a time?


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

the problem with changing the water often is it will take a lot longer to cycle, if ever. But it should also stop the ammonia becoming too high/toxic. The best thing to do would be to buy some bio-spira and your tank may cycle in days.

And providing the Halibut is raw then you can feed it to your p's yes. Although they are quite small and things like bloodworms are an option at this size. In fact most will even take flakes so young.


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Mellor44 said:


> the problem with changing the water often is it will take a lot longer to cycle, if ever. But it should also stop the ammonia becoming too high/toxic. The best thing to do would be to buy some bio-spira and your tank may cycle in days.
> 
> And providing the Halibut is raw then you can feed it to your p's yes. Although they are quite small and things like bloodworms are an option at this size. In fact most will even take flakes so young.
> [snapback]818407[/snapback]​


Can I add the bio-spira while they are in the tank? or will I have to move them?


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

No add the bio-spira while they are in there. Its just what you want to be cycled anyway in a pcket. The bacteria you need to start eating the ammonia and the nitrite. I can't get the stuff over here. But I always use existing gravel/media from a tank so it has the same effect. My 75 gallon cycled in 3 days because of this. The stuff is expensive but will help.

Get a test kit and monitor the ammonia and change water if it gets high. Ammonia is more toxic if you have a high PH.

Good luck


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## diceman69 (Apr 30, 2004)

azeral26 said:


> Can I add the bio-spira while they are in the tank? or will I have to move them?
> [snapback]818412[/snapback]​


You should be ok, if you add the Bio Spira with the fish in the tank.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

diceman69 said:


> You should be ok, if you add the Bio Spira with the fish in the tank.
> [snapback]818449[/snapback]​


indeed biospira ASAP. Test your water frequently.


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Filo said:


> indeed biospira ASAP. Test your water frequently.
> [snapback]818484[/snapback]​


I found a place that has Bio Zyme. Will that work just as good as the other?


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

As far as I am aware Bio spira is the only one that genuinely works. the product is actually chilled to preserve the bacteria. The others may help slightly but this cannot even be proved. I would locate and splash out on the bio-spira if I were you, it will work. You are in the States you should be able to track some down, mail order maybe.

Honestly though, I would only go the biospira route. Sorry


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Mellor44 said:


> As far as I am aware Bio spira is the only one that genuinely works. the product is actually chilled to preserve the bacteria. The others may help slightly but this cannot even be proved. I would locate and splash out on the bio-spira if I were you, it will work. You are in the States you should be able to track some down, mail order maybe.
> 
> Honestly though, I would only go the biospira route. Sorry
> [snapback]818512[/snapback]​


Ok, Ordered the bioSpira it will be here tommorow, but i'm gonna put a little biozyme in tonight because I'm paranoid =) hehehehehheheheh Um next time I think I'll get my tank ready LOL. How many times has that been said in these forums.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

You should be ok at that, the test kit would make a good purchase though but "tools" will build up overtime. It is all bloody expensive.

Everybody has put fish in an uncycled tank. Be it inexperience or little patience. You care for their welfare at least so I'm sure they will be fine.

You will need to look into a larger tank for them though. They are little cannibals at that small a size so I hope they survive. Best of luck


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Mellor44 said:


> You should be ok at that, the test kit would make a good purchase though but "tools" will build up overtime. It is all bloody expensive.
> 
> Everybody has put fish in an uncycled tank. Be it inexperience or little patience. You care for their welfare at least so I'm sure they will be fine.
> 
> ...


Thx for all the help. The guy at the fish store must think I'm a nightmare, I've been regurgitating loads of info I've learned from this sight at him. He acted like it wasn't to big of a deal, and I did'nt need to use anything for my uncycled tank.

I have some guppies swimming with them so I don't think they attack eachother, and they've grown up together so I would assume that would prevent them from eating eachother


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Just got home, 3 guppies left out of six =). Damn I'm obssessed, I shewed my gf away when she turned the light on around the aquarium. lol


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

azeral26 said:


> Just got home, 3 guppies left out of six =). Damn I'm obssessed, I shewed my gf away when she turned the light on around the aquarium. lol
> [snapback]818741[/snapback]​


Man, they slayed all the guppies already. It clouded the tank up. The Bio-Spira is arriving today and I'll do a 20% water change already to see if it clears up the cloudiness. I think I'll keep them on pellets from now on.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

If they will take pellets do that. You cannot get better nutritionally as far as getting colours out of them than prepared fish store foods. Also try Hikari carnivorous food sticks if your fish store stock them.

It is good the guppies are gone it will be less bio-load. And do a water change before you use your Biospira but not after. Your next water change will be when you are measuring Nitrate. And the Ammonia and Nitrite are zero. Doing water changes before this will only prolong the time to cycle. Make sure you clean up after feedings, every last bit. Waste food will add to the potentially fatal ammonia. Watch when they are feeding and keep your eye on the ball, as it were!?

You will soon surpass your fish store worker on knowledge, especially as far as Piranha go! Hobbyists tend to know more than store workers. Store workers/hobbyists are usually the most knowledgeable!

Let us know how they go on. Glad your enjoying it!!


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## Tinkerbelle (Oct 14, 2004)

spring water = yes

distilled water = NO NO NO NO NO!

hope that clears it up a bit...


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Mellor44 said:


> It is good the guppies are gone it will be less bio-load. And do a water change before you use your Biospira but not after. Your next water change will be when you are measuring Nitrate. And the Ammonia and Nitrite are zero. Doing water changes before this will only prolong the time to cycle. Make sure you clean up after feedings, every last bit. Waste food will add to the potentially fatal ammonia. Watch when they are feeding and keep your eye on the ball, as it were!?
> Let us know how they go on. Glad your enjoying it!!
> [snapback]819645[/snapback]​


There wasn't anything left to clean-up. They ate every last bit of those things. The water was very cloudy so I changed 20% of the water. It did'nt help with the cloudiness and i don't want to add chemicals before putting in bio-Spira so I guess I'll have to deal with it.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

azeral26 said:


> There wasn't anything left to clean-up. They ate every last bit of those things. The water was very cloudy so I changed 20% of the water. It did'nt help with the cloudiness and i don't want to add chemicals before putting in bio-Spira so I guess I'll have to deal with it.
> [snapback]819899[/snapback]​


the cloudiness is normal, it means ur tank is cycling. Ass biospira and stop doing water changes...hehe i shoo my gf away while my fish eat, i know they dont like her


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