# feeder fish die in a day in my feeder tank



## bdkane

I have a 58 gal. with a baby elongatus piranha and a blue marron lobster.. That tank is perfect in all test levels, and the p. elong and lobster are thriving.

My 20 Gal. feeder tank is totally screwed .I bought 30 rosy red feeders two times in the last two weeks. The day after I put them in the 20g feeder tank, they were all dead and the water gets super cloudy when i put the feeders in the tank.

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING? I tested the 20 gal. feeder tank after the first 30 died.and the only level that is off is the nitrates, which are about 50ppm. After the first 30 died I did a 50% water change and replaced the filter media (whisper 20).

I put in 30 feeders after performing the changes above......Woke up the next morning and 30 were dead again.

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks,

Andy


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## FootClanSkates

If you absolutely HAVE to use feeders, I have a few questions about the setup. 
1. Are you adding the water that the fish came in? If so, stop doing that immediately, it is almost positively bad water, because it likely came from a feeder tank, and those are incredibly overstocked.

2. Do you have much air on the tank? I would reccomend putting a lot of air into the water. I would use at least two airstones with a lot of air coming out of them, but would be better to have around 6.

3. What is the temperature of the tank? You don't want to heat the minnows or cyprinids you might use, since they are cool water fish, but you don't want the temperature to be all over the place. Put a heater in and set it around 4 degrees below room temperature.

4. Is this a 20L or 20H? A 20L is better suited for a feeder tank because of greater surface area.

5. Do you use gravel? I wouldn't bother with it in a feeder tank, it's not really going to get a chance to hold much bacteria anyway.

When I used a feeder tank I filled the tank with water from another tank before I put them in, every time.

Good Luck.


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## bob351

happens to me all the time


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## bdkane

[quote name='FootClanSkates' date='Aug 6 2006, 12:03 AM' post='1562791']
If you absolutely HAVE to use feeders, I have a few questions about the setup. 
1. Are you adding the water that the fish came in? If so, stop doing that immediately, it is almost positively bad water, because it likely came from a feeder tank, and those are incredibly overstocked.

2. Do you have much air on the tank? I would reccomend putting a lot of air into the water. I would use at least two airstones with a lot of air coming out of them, but would be better to have around 6.

3. What is the temperature of the tank? You don't want to heat the minnows or cyprinids you might use, since they are cool water fish, but you don't want the temperature to be all over the place. Put a heater in and set it around 4 degrees below room temperature.

4. Is this a 20L or 20H? A 20L is better suited for a feeder tank because of greater surface area.

5. Do you use gravel? I wouldn't bother with it in a feeder tank, it's not really going to get a chance to hold much bacteria anyway.

When I used a feeder tank I filled the tank with water from another tank before I put them in, every time.

Good Luck.

Hey foot....Thanks for the reply quick.

first question, yes I am adding the bag of water with the feeders......

1) Wha do you mean "have to absolutely use feeders?? From my understanding elongs will ignore anything that is not alive??? I have fed him bloodworms and he ignores them, but when I put in rosy reds he immediately attacks and swallows at least 3 of them.

2) I have a rena 50 air filter with bubble wand and that is more than enough for a 20 gallon. I just started having this problem recently, never had a problem with feeders before.

3) the temperature in the 20G feeder is 74 deg. Fahrenheight. Temp in 58 gal. tank with elongatus piranha and australian lobster is 80 deg. Farenheit.

4) feeder tank is a 20 gallon......(20" L, 10" W, 12" Deep.

I have a small amount of gravel in the tank that I cleaned after the first batch of 30 feeders died.

Something is definitely wrong with the 20 gallon feeder tank. I bought another 30 feeders 2nite for the 20 gal feeder tank and within an hour they were all sucking for air at the surface. Didnt want to waste another 30 so took them out right away and put them in the 58 gal with the p. elong and the lobster and they were fine, not one has died???

What the hell is wrong with my 20 gal feeder tank?????????









Thanks for the tips Footclan, but I am following your instructions and it is not helping


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## ruger345

Those feeders are in bad shape most of the time when you get them, so you may end up trying to nurse them back to good health before you can even use them.


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## Mr. Hannibal

Hey foot....Thanks for the reply quick.

first question, yes I am adding the bag of water with the feeders......

1) Wha do you mean "have to absolutely use feeders?? *From my understanding elongs will ignore anything that is not alive???* I have fed him bloodworms and he ignores them, but when I put in rosy reds he immediately attacks and swallows at least 3 of them.

....

[/quote]

Well that's not true... if you starve him for a few days (don't do that if he is emaciated) eventually (it could take a while) he will get used to "dead" food... i feed my Elong different kinds of fish fillets (white meat) as staple food and "clean" feeders only occasionally...







!


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## taylorhedrich

Mr. Hannibal said:


> Hey foot....Thanks for the reply quick.
> 
> first question, yes I am adding the bag of water with the feeders......
> 
> 1) Wha do you mean "have to absolutely use feeders?? *From my understanding elongs will ignore anything that is not alive???* I have fed him bloodworms and he ignores them, but when I put in rosy reds he immediately attacks and swallows at least 3 of them.
> 
> ....


Well that's not true... if you starve him for a few days (don't do that if he is emaciated) eventually (it could take a while) he will get used to "dead" food... i feed my Elong different kinds of fish fillets (white meat) as staple food and "clean" feeders only occasionally...







!
[/quote]
I agree 100%. Just forget about the feeders altogether and get him on a MUCH healthier diet.

Rosey reds are also not good feeders even if they are healthy, by the way. They are a member of the goldfish family and contain thiaminase.
~Taylor~


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## cueball

and if bdkane didint already know thiaminase is bad bad bad news for some one that is trying to grow a big piranha


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## bdkane

Thanks, Hannibal

What do you recommend? I have heard tilapia is good?

Well that's not true... if you starve him for a few days (don't do that if he is emaciated) eventually (it could take a while) he will get used to "dead" food... i feed my Elong different kinds of fish fillets (white meat) as staple food and "clean" feeders only occasionally...







!
[/quote]


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## Dr. Giggles

bdkane said:


> After the first 30 died I did a 50% water change and replaced the filter media (whisper 20).
> 
> I put in 30 feeders after performing the changes above......Woke up the next morning and 30 were dead again.
> 
> PLEASE HELP!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy


You shouldn't remove your bio media and that Whisper filter is not good enough for a 20G tank with that many feeders imo. I'm sure this ain't the only contributing factor for the deaths. Possible pH issue killing off your feeders. Your feeders sucking for air at the top is a sign you have water chemistry issues. Retest your water at the lfs to confirm your tests are any good.


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## Guest

In my experience, the problem with bdkane's aquarium has to do with the bioload not matching the beneficial bacteria load.

Even when an aquarium is cycled, if an aquarium's population goes from a few fish (or no fish) to suddenly having 30 fish, the excisting beneficial bacteria cannot oxidize the ammonia fast enough and the ammonia levels in the tank spike, killing the fish.

Aquariums need to have their bioload increased gradually to avoid these types of issues.

A contributing factor is also the summer heat. Goldfish, fatheads, and rosies are all cold water fish. The combined effects of warm water and ammonia will quickly kill these fish off.


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## Dezboy

the cloudy water is a bacteria bloom you are adding too much fish in a small tank at one time, this eats up all the oxygen so basically all your little feeders are suffocating to deaths, and also there will be amonia and nitrite spikes from hell..................


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## Guest

dezboy said:


> the cloudy water is a bacteria bloom you are adding too much fish in a small tank at one time, this eats up all the oxygen so basically all your little feeders are suffocating to deaths,


No, that's not what's happening.

The bacteria bloom is an indictaor of the tank recycling, but he bacteria is not consuming all the oxygen.


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