# Wet Dry



## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Ok guys. I already have crazy filtration for my 55 gallon. I have an Emp 400, a Fluval 304, and an XP3 is on the way. It works good, but I want more.

I have never done a wet/dry, and want to hone my skills for when I build the fish room. If I do this, I am going to get rid of the Emp, and run the 2 can's and the wet dry.

Now, i know this is overkill, but I want the learning experience.

That said, who wants to help me through this project, as far as ideas and what not go? I have alot of questions, so if you know about wet/dry's, hit this thread up so I can ask you some details.

I read the DIY article and already have some ideas.


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

yeah me too i wanna know how to make one !


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

what questions you got?

Ive made a couple in the past, and in the process of building one for a 180 and 150 Gal tanks.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> what questions you got?
> 
> Ive made a couple in the past, and in the process of building one for a 180 and 150 Gal tanks.
> [snapback]1130430[/snapback]​


Ok... Well, how big of a tank should I buy to go with it first off? Can I go with anything that will fit under my tank?

Depending on how big tank I go, whats the biggest flow rate I can do?

I would also like to tuck my heaters in there as well.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> Ok... Well, how big of a tank should I buy to go with it first off? Can I go with anything that will fit under my tank?
> 
> Depending on how big tank I go, whats the biggest flow rate I can do?
> 
> ...


Buy the largest you can, either limited by cost, space available, etc. The larger the better as it means you can have more bio-media, and therefore theoretically better filtration.

Flow rate will really depend on a few things. Firstly the overflows from your tank, as the return pumps MUST be less than these can handle or you'll flood the tank. Its also determined by the size of your tank, as you want to aim for something like 4 or 5 times turnover an hour. The slower it is then the better retention time the water will have to be filtered by the media but the less water can be filtered in an hour. And the faster the less efficiently it will be filtered by the media, but more water will get filtered per hour.

If you want to tuck your heaters away in their then make sure you've enough room to lie them on the bottom, which will help determine what size sump you need!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Ok... Well, how big of a tank should I buy to go with it first off? Can I go with anything that will fit under my tank?
> ...


Ok, so if I get a 600 GPH overflow, a Mag Drive 500, and a 20 gallon will that work? It looks like that may be the biggest tank I can fit under there, as I only have like 12". Looks lie this may just be a bad idea.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

if rooms tight you'll only beable to have a small sump, but dont forget you'll have to have a pump in there, some heaters, and as much bio-media as possible!


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## sccavee (Feb 11, 2003)

Look at rubbermaids also instead of tanks if its tight in your stand. In my 75 I have a rubbermaid container as it was the biggest thing I could get to fit.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

sccavee said:


> Look at rubbermaids also instead of tanks if its tight in your stand. In my 75 I have a rubbermaid container as it was the biggest thing I could get to fit.
> [snapback]1130817[/snapback]​


I was about to ask about rubbermaids. Are they as safe as tanks? I would think so, at least you wouldn't have to worry about busting a seam. Plus I could put it behind the tank instead of under because of the lid.

Also, what do I do to prevent problems with power outages?


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## sccavee (Feb 11, 2003)

Rubbermaids are very sturdy and will last forever.

All my tanks are drilled with overflows, so mine are a little different. When my power goes off, my water just goes to where the overflows stop. It usually only fills my sumps up about half way. Overflow boxes can be a little tricky as some people do have problems with them siphoning.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

sccavee said:


> Rubbermaids are very sturdy and will last forever.
> 
> All my tanks are drilled with overflows, so mine are a little different. When my power goes off, my water just goes to where the overflows stop. It usually only fills my sumps up about half way. Overflow boxes can be a little tricky as some people do have problems with them siphoning.
> [snapback]1130846[/snapback]​


Hmmmm.. Craig, any info? Last thing I want to do is flood the basement.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

most overflow boxes will break the syphon once the water gets too low, so aslong as it doesnt sit too low in the water your sump should only fill part way and not flood the basement. This will have to be worked out when you install the overflow with a little trial and error but its certainly nothing that isnt very easy to do.

Then once the pump starts again it'll restart the overflow and it'll be all fine once again! Just make sure the overflow you buy doesnt use a little motor to syphon the water as these can be problematic. And also make sure if your return line goes back under the water that you have a hole just below the water line to break the syphon there!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> most overflow boxes will break the syphon once the water gets too low, so aslong as it doesnt sit too low in the water your sump should only fill part way and not flood the basement. This will have to be worked out when you install the overflow with a little trial and error but its certainly nothing that isnt very easy to do.
> 
> Then once the pump starts again it'll restart the overflow and it'll be all fine once again! Just make sure the overflow you buy doesnt use a little motor to syphon the water as these can be problematic. And also make sure if your return line goes back under the water that you have a hole just below the water line to break the syphon there!
> [snapback]1131641[/snapback]​


Hows a 30 gallon rubbermaid sound Craig?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

30Gal for a sump is a decent size, should beable to fit plenty of bio-media into that and still have room for your pump and heaters!

Keep us up to date on any progress, and post up if youve any questions!!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> 30Gal for a sump is a decent size, should beable to fit plenty of bio-media into that and still have room for your pump and heaters!
> 
> Keep us up to date on any progress, and post up if youve any questions!!
> [snapback]1132009[/snapback]​


Ok I think I may have a go at this. I plan on NOT submerging the return, to aid in agitation, so thats not a worry. And I can mess with the overflow to get that right.

If I got the 300 gph overflow here, is there a Mag Drive I can buy to go with it?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...04+22778+113565

Is putting the heaters in the wet dry safe? Or should I put 1 in there and another in the tank?


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

I would get a mag drive 250 gph. That would be perfect


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

On the sup, can I leave the lid on it?


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

you mean the lid of the container ? I'm not sure but i think it's better to leave the container open to oxygenate the water. I'm going to home depot now to check for some rubbermade containers !


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

I havent any experience with those types of overflows so cant really comment on them. Im not too sure why they have the air pump with them, and what exactly would happen in a power cut and when it comes back on, etc.

Any pump lower than 300GPH would do, so whatever Mag is near that.

And yeah you can keep the lid on it, should help to keep the noise down a bit aswell.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> I havent any experience with those types of overflows so cant really comment on them. Im not too sure why they have the air pump with them, and what exactly would happen in a power cut and when it comes back on, etc.
> 
> Any pump lower than 300GPH would do, so whatever Mag is near that.
> 
> ...


Or I could slot it for more oxygen?

Is there a good syphon you recommend?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> Or I could slot it for more oxygen?
> 
> Is there a good syphon you recommend?
> [snapback]1132162[/snapback]​


Wouldnt make much difference if it was slotted or not, as with the water falling over the bio-media it'll get oxygenated loads anyway.

Im not too familiar with what products are available in the US compared to in the UK so cant really say. I'll take a look round and see what others have and see what I can find!!


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Something like this is what you need. Its rated for 1200GPH but with a pump running around 300GPH it will only do that, plus you can block off one of the overflow to sump exits and just use the one!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Or I could slot it for more oxygen?
> ...


Hmmm be neat to include my emps biowheels somehow... hafta ponder that


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

As far as using PVC piping. Will it leech anything into the water? I have no experience with PVC whatsoever.

Also, for keeping my fish from eating lines inside the tank, I was thinking of using small PVC ppiping to cover the airlines and cord for powerhead. Any tips on doing this easily?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> As far as using PVC piping. Will it leech anything into the water? I have no experience with PVC whatsoever.
> 
> Also, for keeping my fish from eating lines inside the tank, I was thinking of using small PVC ppiping to cover the airlines and cord for powerhead. Any tips on doing this easily?
> [snapback]1132303[/snapback]​


PVC piping should be fine, I have used it to plumb in alot of my wet/drys and never had any problems. Not too sure of the easiest way to cover up your wires, etc with it, probably easy to just run one piece from when it enters the water to the top of the powerhead so it covers all the wire up.


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

hey craig, you said i have to drill a hole on my return pipe if it's under the water ? Is it ok if the hole is 1'' under the water surface ?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

matc07098702 said:


> hey craig, you said i have to drill a hole on my return pipe if it's under the water ? Is it ok if the hole is 1'' under the water surface ?
> [snapback]1132365[/snapback]​


The hole is to break the syphon from the return back through your pump if their is a powercut (some pumps will automatically stop this but its best not to rely on this). If the hole is 1" under the water level it will drain that 1" of water and then break the syphon.

The best way to find where to do put the hole is to place it just above the overflow level, as during a power out the water will drain this far anyway the water is below the overflow. So if the overflow is set at 2" below the water level, you should put the hole between 1 and 2" on the return!!


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

ok thanks !


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## Brett (Sep 28, 2004)

No way in Hell would I ever run a wet/dry on a tank that wasn't drilled and had Durso style overflows. The problem with hang on/siphon overflows is that if you lose power, you lose siphon, which is not a huge deal as there are step you can take to break siphon. The problem is when the power comes back on and your pumps send water from the sump to the tank, but theres no siphon to return it to the sump, then yer juz fuked! Here's the wet/dry I'm building for my 180 right now. It's a 29 gallon tank and I have about $55 into not including the bio-balls which I paid too much for on EBAY cause I'm a tard. Good luck


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

> The problem is when the power comes back on and your pumps send water from the sump to the tank, but theres no siphon to return it to the sump, then yer juz fuked


sh*t ! I've just ordered my hang on overflow for my tank ! Are there any ways to avoid a big flood when the pump restarts ? but wait a minute, if you're right then tell me why there are many people with hang on overflows on their tank if it's so ''dangerous''


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Brett said:


> No way in Hell would I ever run a wet/dry on a tank that wasn't drilled and had Durso style overflows. The problem with hang on/siphon overflows is that if you lose power, you lose siphon, which is not a huge deal as there are step you can take to break siphon. The problem is when the power comes back on and your pumps send water from the sump to the tank, but theres no siphon to return it to the sump, then yer juz fuked! Here's the wet/dry I'm building for my 180 right now. It's a 29 gallon tank and I have about $55 into not including the bio-balls which I paid too much for on EBAY cause I'm a tard. Good luck
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Craig, please chime in. I don't see this as being all true....


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

matc07098702 said:


> > The problem is when the power comes back on and your pumps send water from the sump to the tank, but theres no siphon to return it to the sump, then yer juz fuked
> 
> 
> sh*t ! I've just ordered my hang on overflow for my tank ! Are there any ways to avoid a big flood when the pump restarts ? but wait a minute, if you're right then tell me why there are many people with hang on overflows on their tank if it's so ''dangerous''
> [snapback]1132512[/snapback]​


I never lost siphon on the overflow ever during a power outage on my wet/dry. Dr.V as far as heaters go it is best to put in the sump. You won't have to worry about fish smacking the sh*t out of it or when you do a water change you won't have to worry about it busting because the water went below the heaters level. Just make sure when you do water changes you unplug the pump first.


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

how do you do a water change with a wet dry ? You unplug the pump and when you're finished you re-plug it and the syphon will starts by itself ?


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

jerry_plakyda said:


> matc07098702 said:
> 
> 
> > > The problem is when the power comes back on and your pumps send water from the sump to the tank, but theres no siphon to return it to the sump, then yer juz fuked
> ...


Aight then. I am going to lowes today to get some nylon screening. Think I'll get the egg crate, rubbermaid bin, and some acrylic.

So how much acrylic sheet do I need?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> Brett said:
> 
> 
> > No way in Hell would I ever run a wet/dry on a tank that wasn't drilled and had Durso style overflows. The problem with hang on/siphon overflows is that if you lose power, you lose siphon, which is not a huge deal as there are step you can take to break siphon. The problem is when the power comes back on and your pumps send water from the sump to the tank, but theres no siphon to return it to the sump, then yer juz fuked! Here's the wet/dry I'm building for my 180 right now. It's a 29 gallon tank and I have about $55 into not including the bio-balls which I paid too much for on EBAY cause I'm a tard. Good luck
> ...


Thats because it isnt true!!

If you buy a cheap hang-on then possibly yes it may well be true that it doesnt automatically start, but 99.9% of the hand-on overflows I have seen re-start the syphon when the water gets upto a certain level!


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

matc07098702 said:


> how do you do a water change with a wet dry ? You unplug the pump and when you're finished you re-plug it and the syphon will starts by itself ?
> [snapback]1132567[/snapback]​


Exactly


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

matc07098702 said:


> how do you do a water change with a wet dry ? You unplug the pump and when you're finished you re-plug it and the syphon will starts by itself ?
> [snapback]1132567[/snapback]​


Yeah just stop the pump and let the water stop coming from the tank (it will partly fill the sump while the water level falls below the overflow) and then do a water change as normal on the tank filling back upto the same level. Then restart the pump. 99.9% of hang-on overflows these days restart the syphon themselves so that should automatically restart itself.



doctorvtec said:


> Aight then. I am going to lowes today to get some nylon screening. Think I'll get the egg crate, rubbermaid bin, and some acrylic.
> 
> So how much acrylic sheet do I need?
> [snapback]1132568[/snapback]​


not too much, measure the size of the rubbermaid tub and the work out how much you need to make the bio-chamber side, and then a little extra for the support to hold up the egg crate!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

And it looks like I need to build an acrylic box to hold my bio right? How do I mount that to my bin?

Should I use PVC hardpiping or a flexible tuubing to connect sump to overflow?


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

As a note on the acrylic especially the side that will be the wall for the bio-balls it will be best to cutout several holes for oxygen exchange.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

jerry_plakyda said:


> As a note on the acrylic especially the side that will be the wall for the bio-balls it will be best to cutout several holes for oxygen exchange.
> [snapback]1132591[/snapback]​


Ok, so I just make a bottom outt egg crates, and the one side outta acrylic. Do I just use aquarium sealent to hold it in place?

Sorry guys, I've never done this....


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> And it looks like I need to build an acrylic box to hold my bio right? How do I mount that to my bin?
> 
> Should I use PVC hardpiping or a flexible tuubing to connect sump to overflow?
> [snapback]1132584[/snapback]​


You will glue some eggcrate approx 4-5" from the bottom and glue it to the rubbermaid container and the acrylic sheet that will be used for the wall


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> jerry_plakyda said:
> 
> 
> > As a note on the acrylic especially the side that will be the wall for the bio-balls it will be best to cutout several holes for oxygen exchange.
> ...


Also, how much room should I leave between the egg crates and the bottom of my bin?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> And it looks like I need to build an acrylic box to hold my bio right? How do I mount that to my bin?
> 
> Should I use PVC hardpiping or a flexible tuubing to connect sump to overflow?
> [snapback]1132584[/snapback]​


This article by Nitrofish is the best thing to follow, just picture your rubbermaid tub here his tank is!









And its upto you with the tubing. The flexible stuff is much easier if your not hard plumbign everything in, and it also saves you having to mess about with alot of elbows, etc!!


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

hey doc, did you check this site ?You can build some legs using pvc tubes so that the bio chamber won't sit in the sump :http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_wet_dry.php (look at the pics you'll see what i mean). Are you gonna use lava rocks or bio balls ?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

doctorvtec said:


> Also, how much room should I leave between the egg crates and the bottom of my bin?
> [snapback]1132597[/snapback]​


couple of inches, say around 3-5" would do it, aslong as their is room for your heaters, and the bio-media isnt sat too low into the water when its in the sump.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Also, how much room should I leave between the egg crates and the bottom of my bin?
> ...


Aight... Imma go buy the bin so I can do measurements.


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## Brett (Sep 28, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Brett said:
> ...


Not that it would matter to me if you flooded your house, but you really should do a Google search and search for "siphon overflows flooding" and do some reading to educate yourself. I just did and got a ton of hits about siphon overflows flooding houses after siphin breaks. Good luck.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Brett said:


> Not that it would matter to me if you flooded your house, but you really should do a Google search and search for "siphon overflows flooding" and do some reading to educate yourself. I just did and got a ton of hits about siphon overflows flooding houses after siphin breaks. Good luck.
> [snapback]1132681[/snapback]​


OK, I'll go and do that search.

Maybe you can go back on and do a search for hang-on overflows that have auto restarting syphons, as I feel you need to do some more reading to educate yourself


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Infact, I'll save you the searching on Google, here is a nice website that explains how these overflows work, with plenty of nice big pictures for you to follow...

Read Me


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## matc (Jul 31, 2004)

craig, do you use hang overflows on your tank ? I hope mine has an auto restarting syphon


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

matc07098702 said:


> craig, do you use hang overflows on your tank ? I hope mine has an auto restarting syphon
> [snapback]1132715[/snapback]​


No as Ive never had the need to. All my tanks have been brand new and I got them all with built in overflows.

Its easy enough to make your overflow into one that will automatically restart if it isnt already. It just needs to have two compartments in the part of the overflow thats outside the tank. One compartment should have the tube thats coming from your tank, this should fill up with water and then flow into the second compartment which has the exit to your sump. This means that when the power is out, both ends of the tube between the part of the overflow in the tank and outside the tank is still under water.

If yours doesnt have these two compartments on the outside part, its easy to silicone a piece of acrylic in to make them!


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## Brett (Sep 28, 2004)

CraigStables said:


> Infact, I'll save you the searching on Google, here is a nice website that explains how these overflows work, with plenty of nice big pictures for you to follow...
> 
> Read Me!
> [snapback]1132713[/snapback]​


The link you posted is for a car customizing website in the UK?







not sure what that has to do with overflows? I am familiar with the hang on's that utilize the aqualifter pumps to draw air from the u tubes, is that what you are talking about? All I know is that when my friends 125 with hang on overflows broke siphon, the power came back on and the siphons didn't start. The pump on his wet/dry did and proceeded to pump the water that was in the sump (about 35 gallons) over the tank and onto his floor, it did about $1400 damage to the house







That was enough to convince me. If there is a way to utilize hang ons that is AS SAFE as built in overflows (which are 100 percent safe) please show me and I will switch to them in a heartbeat instead of shelling out the extra dollars for built in overflow tanks. My 180 AGA was $800 just for the tank because of the extra cost of the overflows. If you can save me money and show me a better way, then please show me


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Brett said:


> The link you posted is for a car customizing website in the UK?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: sorry about that, my copy button obviously didnt work!! This is the real link!!

That will show you a 100% hang-on overflow. Your mate must of opted for the really cheap overflow, as like I said 99.9% of them these days are always built like this. And no, they to make use of any pumps, etc. as these arent that good due to too many problems that cuould go wrong with the pump!


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

You get this thing together yet????

Scavvees wet dry is sweet, but he has the built in overflows


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Not yet, I'm lazy.... Gather info, and going to start building the sump. I am going to wait UNTIL after my vacation in August to put it all on the tank, to be sure it's all proper like.


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## Brett (Sep 28, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> Not yet, I'm lazy.... Gather info, and going to start building the sump. I am going to wait UNTIL after my vacation in August to put it all on the tank, to be sure it's all proper like.
> [snapback]1133221[/snapback]​


You can build a wet/dry in 1 day


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

Brett said:


> doctorvtec said:
> 
> 
> > Not yet, I'm lazy.... Gather info, and going to start building the sump. I am going to wait UNTIL after my vacation in August to put it all on the tank, to be sure it's all proper like.
> ...


Ha, not if you move at my speed.... LOL


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