# Aquiring A License To Posses Piranhas In A State In Which Piranhas Are



## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

Is it possible? If so, how hard is it? As a hobbyist, could I do so?

I live in NH, and may have to move back to MA for family issues down there. Which poses a problem because my staffordshire terrier is "illegal" and "dangerous." And I have a my seven piranhas.

I know people in MA that have piranhas illegally, but as the mature young man that I am, I'd like to go about it the right way.

If that's impossible, I guess I'll have to be a criminal.

Any advice? Suggestions? I really don't want to break laws, and I'm completely in love with these fish. :/

Darth Maul isn't nearly as cool as Darth Vader, by the way.


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## bigredjeep (Jul 12, 2007)

Christopher666 said:


> Is it possible? If so, how hard is it? As a hobbyist, could I do so?
> 
> I live in NH, and may have to move back to MA for family issues down there. Which poses a problem because my staffordshire terrier is "illegal" and "dangerous." And I have a my seven piranhas.
> 
> ...


its only illegal if you get caught...


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Christopher666 said:


> Is it possible? If so, how hard is it? As a hobbyist, could I do so?
> 
> I live in NH, and may have to move back to MA for family issues down there. Which poses a problem because my staffordshire terrier is "illegal" and "dangerous." And I have a my seven piranhas.
> 
> ...












You need to "dig" into MA's state laws relating to permits. I did not have enough time to find out the requirments, but here is the section that relates to piranhas. Plus, the MA DNR related link.

*Wild Animals Exempt from Permit Requirements*
This category refers to animals which are wild by nature, which may be possessed, maintained, propagated, bought, sold, or imported without a MassWildlife permit and are exempt from most state requirements (M.G.L. c. 131, § 23) and 321 CMR 9.01). These exempt animals must be obtained from a lawful source, may not be captured or taken from the wild in Massachusetts, and may not be liberated to the wild.

In order to be listed as exempt, the animal (or group of animals) must meet the following criteria:

Accidental release will not adversely affect the ecology of Massachusetts; 
The animal in captivity, or if escaped, poses no substantial danger to humans, either from injury or disease; 
Proper care of the animal is no more demanding than the care of common domestic animals; and 
Trade in the animals has no significant adverse effect on the wild population of the animal in any of its natural habitats. 
The only exempt wild animals which may be taken from the wild in Massachusetts are certain reptiles and amphibians (321 CMR 3.05). Such animals may be kept as personal pets, but may not be sold, bartered, or exchanged. The possession limit is 2 on each of these reptiles and amphibians. Allowable species include the American Bullfrog, American Toad, DeKay's Brownsnake, Eastern Gartersnake, Eastern Musk Turtle, Eastern Newt, Eastern Racer, Eastern Red-backed Salamander, Eastern Ribbonsnake, Fowler's Toad, Gray Treefrog, Green Frog, Milksnake, Mudpuppy, Northern Dusky Salamander, Northern Two-lined Salamander, Northern No Solicitation Allowed, Painted Turtle, Pickerel Frog, Red-bellied Snake, Smooth Greensnake, Snapping Turtle, Spring Peeper, and Wood Frog.

*Other Exempt Wild Animal Groups*

Fish - All "aquarium trade" fish are exempt except for rare species. Aquarium trade fish (see 321 CMR 9.01 for definition) also include the Goldfish, Koi (Japanese Carp), and Guppies, but do not include Tilapia. The Fathead Minnow and the Bluntnose Minnow may be kept as a pet, but require a permit when sold as bait for fishing. 
The following fish are expressly prohibited and may not be liberated in waters of Massachusetts: Grass Carp (White Amur), *Piranhas and related species*, Rudd, and Walking Catfish and related species. Snakeheads are on the federal list of injurious wildlife and their importation and interstate transportation is now prohibited by federal law.

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations...ions_exotic.htm


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## Jake123 (Oct 18, 2007)

i don't know if i read it wrong but it sounds like you might have to be a criminal. bummer


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## Ibanez247 (Nov 9, 2006)

With all the "professionals" out there calling Pacus Piranhas good chance your going to be safe. Just dont tell anyone you dont trust you have them and you should be safe. I didnt realize P's were illegal in MA I live in Vermont and I could have sworn I was in a MA LFS and they had red bellies. I may have been in Connecticut it was a couple years ago. Good luck with the move.


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## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

Ibanez247 said:


> With all the "professionals" out there calling Pacus Piranhas good chance your going to be safe. Just dont tell anyone you dont trust you have them and you should be safe. I didnt realize P's were illegal in MA I live in Vermont and I could have sworn I was in a MA LFS and they had red bellies. I may have been in Connecticut it was a couple years ago. Good luck with the move.


They're illegal in MA, I think there's a weird technicality. But there is afew fishstores that had them in big tanks not for sale.


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## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

Coldfire said:


> Is it possible? If so, how hard is it? As a hobbyist, could I do so?
> 
> I live in NH, and may have to move back to MA for family issues down there. Which poses a problem because my staffordshire terrier is "illegal" and "dangerous." And I have a my seven piranhas.
> 
> ...












You need to "dig" into MA's state laws relating to permits. I did not have enough time to find out the requirments, but here is the section that relates to piranhas. Plus, the MA DNR related link.

*Wild Animals Exempt from Permit Requirements*
This category refers to animals which are wild by nature, which may be possessed, maintained, propagated, bought, sold, or imported without a MassWildlife permit and are exempt from most state requirements (M.G.L. c. 131, § 23) and 321 CMR 9.01). These exempt animals must be obtained from a lawful source, may not be captured or taken from the wild in Massachusetts, and may not be liberated to the wild.

In order to be listed as exempt, the animal (or group of animals) must meet the following criteria:

Accidental release will not adversely affect the ecology of Massachusetts; 
The animal in captivity, or if escaped, poses no substantial danger to humans, either from injury or disease; 
Proper care of the animal is no more demanding than the care of common domestic animals; and 
Trade in the animals has no significant adverse effect on the wild population of the animal in any of its natural habitats. 
The only exempt wild animals which may be taken from the wild in Massachusetts are certain reptiles and amphibians (321 CMR 3.05). Such animals may be kept as personal pets, but may not be sold, bartered, or exchanged. The possession limit is 2 on each of these reptiles and amphibians. Allowable species include the American Bullfrog, American Toad, DeKay's Brownsnake, Eastern Gartersnake, Eastern Musk Turtle, Eastern Newt, Eastern Racer, Eastern Red-backed Salamander, Eastern Ribbonsnake, Fowler's Toad, Gray Treefrog, Green Frog, Milksnake, Mudpuppy, Northern Dusky Salamander, Northern Two-lined Salamander, Northern No Solicitation Allowed, Painted Turtle, Pickerel Frog, Red-bellied Snake, Smooth Greensnake, Snapping Turtle, Spring Peeper, and Wood Frog.

*Other Exempt Wild Animal Groups*

Fish - All "aquarium trade" fish are exempt except for rare species. Aquarium trade fish (see 321 CMR 9.01 for definition) also include the Goldfish, Koi (Japanese Carp), and Guppies, but do not include Tilapia. The Fathead Minnow and the Bluntnose Minnow may be kept as a pet, but require a permit when sold as bait for fishing. 
The following fish are expressly prohibited and may not be liberated in waters of Massachusetts: Grass Carp (White Amur), *Piranhas and related species*, Rudd, and Walking Catfish and related species. Snakeheads are on the federal list of injurious wildlife and their importation and interstate transportation is now prohibited by federal law.

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations...ions_exotic.htm
[/quote]

Yeah. See, piranhas fal into all of those categories except they could be "dangerous" in a tank.

Thanks for the info. I'm thinking of calling them tomorrow morning.


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## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

bigredjeep said:


> Is it possible? If so, how hard is it? As a hobbyist, could I do so?
> 
> I live in NH, and may have to move back to MA for family issues down there. Which poses a problem because my staffordshire terrier is "illegal" and "dangerous." And I have a my seven piranhas.
> 
> ...


its only illegal if you get caught...
[/quote]

Good point. 
That's the only thing about NH that's better than MA. :/


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Go to this link, it has the info you need: http://opefe.com/state_stat_prohibit.html


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## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

hastatus said:


> Go to this link, it has the info you need: http://opefe.com/state_stat_prohibit.html


Thank you, kindly, sir.

From what I read, my understanding of it is that I can own them, I just have to get proper licensing.

Now for my next question, how hard is it going to be for me to get this license? Any suggestions on how to go about getting it? Do I just say that I'm a hobbyist?

I am probably going to have to pay for the permit... which is just like being a mobster and having to pay the police to not mess with you. Oh, how exciting!


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Hobbyist permits are for the most part, difficult to get for private ownership. In most cases, they expect you to be an educational institution or scientific organization.


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## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

hastatus said:


> Hobbyist permits are for the most part, difficult to get for private ownership. In most cases, they expect you to be an educational institution or scientific organization.


So in other words, this is going to be a difficult task. Unless I become an educational institution or a scientific organization. Which... might be impossible.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

The easier would be to be in school and ask a teacher to vouch for you that the fish will be used for scientific study.


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## Christopher666 (Nov 1, 2007)

hastatus said:


> The easier would be to be in school and ask a teacher to vouch for you that the fish will be used for scientific study.


Yeah. I'm not in school anymore. Which poses another problem. Whatever, I'll figure something out.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Thanks for jumping in and helping Frank. As always, well done.


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