# Live Rock Alternative?...



## Tensa

I was trying to search and see if there is any alternative to having live rock take up space in a SW tank but i have been unable to find anything that would do. I know some of the basics of making a salt tank work as I have had sharks before and am considering getting another one but I really just want a open tank to view the shark from as it continuously swims about. Does anyone know of a alternative without having to use a sump to support the bioload? would a canister filter be able to hold the needed bacteria for the nitrification cycle? Thanks in advance


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## ibcd

I don't or have ever had s/w but I gota 75gal off a guy acouple months ago & he had a s/w running with only a canister on it.


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## Guest

Canister filled with LR rubble, read about it being done as an alternative to a sump. Don't know how many pounds you'd need though or how effective it would be.


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## CLUSTER ONE

LR in sump or tank is pretty much your only real option. Most people who se cannister in sw don't even use media as it traps debris and raises nitrates. Also I highly suggest against a shark as even small shark species will need something like a 300g

I suggest I large sump to hold live rock and a good protein skimmer.


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## Tensa

yea tank size is not a issue here but thanks for that advice. i was afraid there wouldnt really be a alternative to LR intank or a sump but hey had to ask i knew we had some people here with good SW experience.


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## CLUSTER ONE

A beast skimmer would be your best bet though pretty much all good skimmers are in sump. I would do a good insump skimmer with a couple small rock islands in the display

A good skimmer alone should be sufficient though I would add a bit of lr just for a nicer look so the tank isn't so bare.


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## Spilo26

A saltwater tank doesn't need live rock. A basic hang on filter, sump, or canister filter can work fine if its a fish only aquarium. Filters are known for collecting detritus and building up nitrates. Most people that keep coral reefs prefer to use live rock as filtration because it gives them places to attach corals, plus corals are more sensitive to nitrates than fish.


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## Ægir

With saltwater you want to export waste, not trap it and let it break down. I would stay away from canisters and other filters designed for freshwater use, unless you modify them heavily. Even then you arent going to get much for your money.

Have you thought about making a foam rock wall for the back of your tank? It would leave all the free swimming space, and areas to attach any corals or softies in the future. If you want to stack rock and add it once things get going thats an option as well.

A sump with rock stuffed in extra space would be the best, and as said before a good skimmer.



Spilo26 said:


> A saltwater tank *doesn't need live rock*. A basic hang on filter, sump, or canister filter can work fine if its a fish only aquarium. Filters are known for collecting detritus and building up nitrates. Most people that keep coral reefs prefer to use live rock as filtration because it gives them places to attach corals, plus corals are more sensitive to nitrates than fish.


You really dont need fingers on your hands... but it makes them more functional.

Hang on filters, and ESPECIALLY canister filters need to be setup specially for saltwater.... any filter floss or pads that wont be cleaned every few DAYS should be removed. Canisters are always a ticking timebomb unless they are being used for chem. (carbon, phosban etc) and in that case reactors are 1000 times easier and cheaper.

A sump with proper turnover and a skimmer wont collect detritus or waste at near the rate a HOB, canister, or other filter will, and should only need cleaning yearly at most.

With proper flow in your tank, and a little tweaking any waste that isnt skimmed will collect in a few neat piles (corners of the display or sump) you can suck out during water changes. Set yourself up for success from the beginning and avoid all the expense and headaches down the road.


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## Tensa

one of the other reasons i was trying to avoid LR is because of the cost. Tanks i have/stumble across big ones for next to nothing sometimes, same goes for filters. but LR is one of those things that gets to be expensive. so i will most likely just find a way to get the live rock i need or go with some other type of freshwater fish or...i could just throw a bullshark in the tank and make it a freshwater setup







i joke i joke i kid i kid







would be kool though.


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## Ægir

Use dry base rock when you set your tank up... its far cheaper and there is no reason to buy all "live" rock when you can seed dry stuff with a small piece as your tank cycles.

Marcorocks.com


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## Spilo26

I thought I explained it pretty much the same as you did. I didn't think quoting me and bashing me was necessary. Anyway, nutrient export is one of the things you want for a saltwater tank. A nice in sump skimmer would be your best bet for that, or a refugium with macroalgae like chaeto as well. They're many ways to set up saltwater tanks, as long as you maintain the filters, and change out the water like you would on any other tank I don't see a need for expensive live rock. If you aren't planning on keeping a reef tank that is. A sump can collect detritous as well, and a lot of people will say that bioballs are worse than a canister filter if you go the sump route. Anyway good luck lol.


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## Ægir

Spilo26 said:


> I thought I explained it pretty much the same as you did. I didn't think quoting me and bashing me was necessary. Anyway, nutrient export is one of the things you want for a saltwater tank. A nice in sump skimmer would be your best bet for that, or a refugium with macroalgae like chaeto as well. They're many ways to set up saltwater tanks, as long as you maintain the filters, and change out the water like you would on any other tank I don't see a need for expensive live rock. If you aren't planning on keeping a reef tank that is. A sump can collect detritous as well, and a lot of people will say that bioballs are worse than a canister filter if you go the sump route. Anyway good luck lol.


No bashing at all, Im just saying set it up now to avoid problems in the future... Having to wash/change out filter pads and clean things every other day isnt necessary and just takes away from time enjoying the tank. This hobby is a lot of work to begin with, without adding more chores that are avoidable. I did the canister / hob / tap water / thing when i first started and it is nothing but creating problems for your self. I also never said it cant be done, or there isnt applications where a canister or HOB would be a better bet... i just dont feel it should be your first tank because it takes time away from other key things you could be learning.

There is no need for expensive live rock at this point... he can use dry base rock with no problems at all and 2$ per lb (keep in mind no water weight!) is more than affordable.

Drain from display -> skimmer (same or more GPH as return pump after head loss) ->fuge ->return pump

Maybe use a filter sock the first few months of running, and you can pack as little or much rock rubble in ANY areas of the sump.


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## mrodge

u could use texas holy rock, run you a bit cheaper and will eventually culture live bacteria


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## shiver905

Canister filter for a SW setup isnt a good idea.

If sharks need heavy feedings, I would say you NEED a sump. A BIG one to hold all the LR you dont on in your display.

I can understand how 300lbs of live rock can get pricey. Make some DIY live rock. Make shure you dont rush it and cure it properly.


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