# Is There Such A Thing As Too Much Water Changes.



## kanito107

my 5 reds are doing great. they lok healthy swiming around, they eat every time i feed them whatever it may be, theyr getting quite big. 
the paramaters are in check, but..
every time i do a water change (i do one every week) my nitrates go down, and i know this is suppose to happen but for the last three weeks they have gone from 80 ppm to 20 ppm and i wasnt sure if i should do a water change this week so what i did was vacumed the gravel, netted all the debris and put the water back in and added some water (due to evaporization) 
was this a good thing to do or i should have done a normal water change?
also water changes before have been two full 5g buckets and maybe i was doing too much?


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## BRUNER247

Discus breeders do daily waterchanges.


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA

You should stick to a weekly water change, what size is your tank?


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## kanito107

55g


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## jp80911

personally I try not to get nitrate go above 20ppm. the lower the better.


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## kanito107

Well that's at where mine are


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## Piranha_man

One of the main reasons to do water changes is to keep the nitrate level as low as possible.

In a tank with adequate bacterial content it's possible to change out as much as 50% every 8 hours.
This is, however, excessive IMO and should not be done except in specific circumstances like treating for planaria or nematodes.

If you're changing out two 5-gallon buckets every week in a 55 gallon tank, that's 20% weekly.
That's considered a very conservative water change schedule.


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## Da' Manster!

Piranha_man said:


> One of the main reasons to do water changes is to keep the nitrate level as low as possible.
> 
> In a tank with adequate bacterial content it's possible to change out as much as 50% every 8 hours.
> This is, however, excessive IMO and should not be done except in specific circumstances like treating for planaria or nematodes.
> 
> If you're changing out two 5-gallon buckets every week in a 55 gallon tank, that's 20% weekly.
> That's considered a very conservative water change schedule.


Actually 20% weekly is perfect for water changes *IF*you have ample filtration (10 - 20x's) turnover rate!..


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## Piranha_man

^^ Of course it also depends on whatcha got in the tank...

(A spilo in a 75 gallon will require a less aggressive water change schedule than 5 pygos in the same tank for instance...)


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## kanito107

well thanks for the input guys well appreciated

so are my water changes on the spot or too much?


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## Piranha_man

They're fine.


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## Piranha feeder

kanito107 said:


> well thanks for the input guys well appreciated
> 
> so are my water changes on the spot or too much?


5 Reds in a 55 is kinda stuffed IMO. Also depending on their size. In a stuffed tank a bigger percentage of water change is prefered. So if i were u i would do 3x 5g buckets every week.
U can never do too much water changes unless ur filter and bio cant keep up then you should do less. BTW what type of filter r u running?


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## CLUSTER ONE

As long as you don't do so many water changes it stresses the fish and or casues the tanks chemistry to fluctuate you are fine.


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## kanito107

i have a 200 marineland penguine and a eheim 2217


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## welsher7

if you are worried about the drastic change in water chemistry instead of doing one big water change a week you could do two smaller changes (that equal the one big wc).


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## wremi

Well.................................The owner of what I used to think was the best LFS in my area told me that at 25% weekly, I was changing too much water. Needless to say, that is not my favorite LFS anymore.


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## Piranha feeder

wremi said:


> Well.................................The owner of what I used to think was the best LFS in my area told me that at 25% weekly, I was changing too much water. Needless to say, that is not my favorite LFS anymore.


That depends on the fish bro! If u have guppies they aren't gonna come close to the waste a piranha has! I change my guppies water 20% every 2 weeks! The 15-20% weekly water changes are for piranha only and other large carnivores! That's why probably he told u that u were doing too much. Probably didn't know u had Ps


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## kanito107

thats totally true it depends on the fish.
but my main reason for this post was because through research and browsing on this site i learned that its best to keep nitrates at a steady level. idk why but thats just been in the back of my head i know that if they drop too low it will probably start a mini cycle, correct me if im wrong on this.

but other than that my water looks clear other than the scratches on the glass which i intend to replace in the future.


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## wremi

Piranha feeder said:


> Well.................................The owner of what I used to think was the best LFS in my area told me that at 25% weekly, I was changing too much water. Needless to say, that is not my favorite LFS anymore.


That depends on the fish bro! If u have guppies they aren't gonna come close to the waste a piranha has! I change my guppies water 20% every 2 weeks! The 15-20% weekly water changes are for piranha only and other large carnivores! That's why probably he told u that u were doing too much. Probably didn't know u had Ps
[/quote]

Nope, he knew what fish I have. He said that You should only change about 25% a month or you will kill your BB.


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## Piranha feeder

wremi said:


> Well.................................The owner of what I used to think was the best LFS in my area told me that at 25% weekly, I was changing too much water. Needless to say, that is not my favorite LFS anymore.


That depends on the fish bro! If u have guppies they aren't gonna come close to the waste a piranha has! I change my guppies water 20% every 2 weeks! The 15-20% weekly water changes are for piranha only and other large carnivores! That's why probably he told u that u were doing too much. Probably didn't know u had Ps
[/quote]

Nope, he knew what fish I have. He said that You should only change about 25% a month or you will kill your BB.
[/quote]

Ok now that's just rediculous! Not a well educated man


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## CLUSTER ONE

Nitrate are the end of the cycle so there levels do not matter. You want them as low as possible. Same of ammonia and nitrite though you want bacteria to convert them to nitrate and not always remove them by waterchange or you can starve the bacteria. For most fish 10% per week is fine but when dealing with p's or anyother 6" plus fish you will need more as well as better filtration. So they guy that said 25% is too much is correct for most cases as most people only have small to medium fish that produce alot less waste then p's. The heavier the bioload the more water changes you need.


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## Piranha feeder

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Nitrate are the end of the cycle so there levels do not matter. You want them as low as possible. Same of ammonia and nitrite though you want bacteria to convert them to nitrate and not always remove them by waterchange or you can starve the bacteria. For most fish 10% per week is fine but when dealing with p's or anyother 6" plus fish you will need more as well as better filtration. So they guy that said 25% is too much is correct for most cases as most people only have small to medium fish that produce alot less waste then p's. The heavier the bioload the more water changes you need.


Ok not to be rude but you should have read the previous posts. It will explain everything cause we already talked about all that u said. And if u didnt read, the guy at the pet store knew he had P's, And if he doesnt know that P's produce significantly more waste than other fish he isnt very well educated!


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## smb

IMO you cant change enough water often enough. Having read through this thread i feel I might get some flak but in all of the studies Ive done over the years when it comes to vitamins, chems etc versus wc's i side with the wc's as the biggest factor for large colorful and healthy fish over any vitamins ive done. ( yes i know i did a thread asking about vitamins etc but it was for a reason) Discus are some of the most sensitive fish there are yet breeders do a 100% daily wc. I sometimes did 5-6 75% wcs a week for months and noticed a significant size change (cant say how much since its wrote down and i dont have it memorized) over what others say is the norm for the fish. as long as it doesnt stress your fish or disturb your bb your water means nothing. ask that lfs owner where he thinks most of the bb resides. If he says the water column, turn around walk out and never listen to him again. If he says anything other than the water column ask him why should you keep so much stale water in your tank then?


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## wremi

smb said:


> IMO you cant change enough water often enough. Having read through this thread i feel I might get some flak but in all of the studies Ive done over the years when it comes to vitamins, chems etc versus wc's i side with the wc's as the biggest factor for large colorful and healthy fish over any vitamins ive done. ( yes i know i did a thread asking about vitamins etc but it was for a reason) Discus are some of the most sensitive fish there are yet breeders do a 100% daily wc. I sometimes did 5-6 75% wcs a week for months and noticed a significant size change (cant say how much since its wrote down and i dont have it memorized) over what others say is the norm for the fish. as long as it doesnt stress your fish or disturb your bb your water means nothing. ask that lfs owner where he thinks most of the bb resides. If he says the water column, turn around walk out and never listen to him again. If he says anything other than the water column ask him why should you keep so much stale water in your tank then?


I,m already done with him. I have found a nicer place that is'nt too much farther. Only reason I ever went to this place was it was close, but the other place is only like 5 mile further and has cleaner set ups. Plus a little more knowledgeable people.


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## CLUSTER ONE

Piranha feeder said:


> Nitrate are the end of the cycle so there levels do not matter. You want them as low as possible. Same of ammonia and nitrite though you want bacteria to convert them to nitrate and not always remove them by waterchange or you can starve the bacteria. For most fish 10% per week is fine but when dealing with p's or anyother 6" plus fish you will need more as well as better filtration. So they guy that said 25% is too much is correct for most cases as most people only have small to medium fish that produce alot less waste then p's. The heavier the bioload the more water changes you need.


*Ok not to be rude but you should have read the previous posts. It will explain everything cause we already talked about all that u said. * And if u didnt read, the guy at the pet store knew he had P's, And if he doesnt know that P's produce significantly more waste than other fish he isnt very well educated!
[/quote]

Am I supposed to care what was already said? I am giving *my opinion* in more detail then I have seen any of you go into. Good job on telling him massive water changes can kill BB. Now he knows this though probably still doesn't see the big picture as to why. If you went into the nitrogen cycle and how chlorine can harm BB I would of been satisfied enough to not post though you gave him a quick anser and left it at that. You also never corrected him about a stable nitrate level as it should be under 40 and not nessisarily stable. I have seen a few say the lower the better but obviously he still doesn't fully understand if he is still asking about it. It is also the last step in the nitrogen cycle and therefore its levels do not really matter as long as they are not too high as there are no following steps that rely on it.

So... what I am saying is I often scan posts as I can't be bothered to read every post but from this topic the general vibe I got was alot of quick answers given to him without answering actually why. Give a man a fish he can eat for a day but teach a man to fish and he can eat for a lifetime. You seem to be giving him a basic answer where he still doesn't know the reasoning behind it but I am trying to relate a waterchange to the nitrogen cycle so I don't see him posing 100 more water chemistry questions down the road as he always relyed on others to give him the answer. Facts are good to know but you don't really "know" them unless you know the theory/reasoning behind the facts.


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## Piranha feeder

CLUSTER ONE said:


> Nitrate are the end of the cycle so there levels do not matter. You want them as low as possible. Same of ammonia and nitrite though you want bacteria to convert them to nitrate and not always remove them by waterchange or you can starve the bacteria. For most fish 10% per week is fine but when dealing with p's or anyother 6" plus fish you will need more as well as better filtration. So they guy that said 25% is too much is correct for most cases as most people only have small to medium fish that produce alot less waste then p's. The heavier the bioload the more water changes you need.


*Ok not to be rude but you should have read the previous posts. It will explain everything cause we already talked about all that u said. * And if u didnt read, the guy at the pet store knew he had P's, And if he doesnt know that P's produce significantly more waste than other fish he isnt very well educated!
[/quote]

Am I supposed to care what was already said? I am giving *my opinion* in more detail then I have seen any of you go into. Good job on telling him massive water changes can kill BB. Now he knows this though probably still doesn't see the big picture as to why. If you went into the nitrogen cycle and how chlorine can harm BB I would of been satisfied enough to not post though you gave him a quick anser and left it at that. You also never corrected him about a stable nitrate level as it should be under 40 and not nessisarily stable. I have seen a few say the lower the better but obviously he still doesn't fully understand if he is still asking about it. It is also the last step in the nitrogen cycle and therefore its levels do not really matter as long as they are not too high as there are no following steps that rely on it.

So... what I am saying is I often scan posts as I can't be bothered to read every post but from this topic the general vibe I got was alot of quick answers given to him without answering actually why. Give a man a fish he can eat for a day but teach a man to fish and he can eat for a lifetime. You seem to be giving him a basic answer where he still doesn't know the reasoning behind it but I am trying to relate a waterchange to the nitrogen cycle so I don't see him posing 100 more water chemistry questions down the road as he always relyed on others to give him the answer. Facts are good to know but you don't really "know" them unless you know the theory/reasoning behind the facts.
[/quote]
U really like putting ur 2 cents in trying to correct everyone! Buddy u aighnt a genius and all the info I gave was more than enough he needed. If he wanted it in detail there is a thing called GOOGLE!


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## Piranha feeder

He asked a simple question on wc and he got more! END OF STORY. no need to be posting info not relevant and info already posted. U dont feel like reading? then don't post!


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## CLUSTER ONE

kanito107 said:


> U dont feel like reading? then don't post!


I am answering for the op not you. I don't care if it has been covered I can cover it again my way. Repitition is a key to memorization and knowlege anyways. Why do I need to read 20 other posts to answer what the op needs to know?

Either way im done here.


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