# Breeding Caribas



## pharmandora

Is it possible breeding caribas?

Have anybody could do it?


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## LS1FDRx7

It is possible, It's been done. Here's an article on it. Read all of it if your serious about breeding Pygocentrus cariba. Hope that helps.

"A few hobbyists have reportedly accomplished the breeding of Pygocentrus cariba. The requirements for breeding this species don't differ much from Pygocentrus nattereri, with a few exceptions. The dry season and wet season need to be applied to this species, but in itself is not really necessary. Good conditions, feeding and care all play an important part than just simulating the seasons. The aquarium size for a sexually mature pair, should be at least a minimum of 55 gallons, heavily planted on one side, the other side bare. The potential breeders should be afforded privacy, so sides of the aquarium should be blocked to prevent the fish from seeing you and free of outside disturbances. Males become dark and the females (at least on reported spawning) are the aggressors. They do build a nest consisting of blowing out sand and/or laying eggs in roots of plants. The rio Orinoco rivers water chemistry is as follows; pH: 4.5-7 (6.0); 2-8 dH (6); 75-82°F (24-28°C). For breeding purposes, water temperature should be at the high-end (84F). The area also undergoes a period of a dry season from October - March. The rainy season runs from April - September. Many aquarists go to a lot of trouble to set up water chemistry and aquascaping to get their fish to spawn. The problem seems to be to get the fish in the mood and try to simulate (and stimulate) their spawning season. While it is true that most fish spawn seasonally, it is not necessarily because it is compulsory for them, only that the habitat regulates when they can. If the habitat allows continuous spawning, most commonly in hydroelectric reservoirs, then the fish will take advantage of that. An example is the Brazilian piranha Serrasalmus spilopleura (= S. maculatus), which changes its behavior to spawn continuously in reservoirs (Dale Speirs, California Academy of Sciences).

According to hobbyist and business owner, Jim Smith formerly of Lurking In The Weeds Pet Store in Michigan, who has successfully bred this species, he recommends keeping an air stone going on one side of the tank. This way when you simulate a dry season (for 1 week) you can turn off filters. Drop the water level down 20% of fill. Keep a close watch of weather patterns as Jim says these fish are effected by barometric pressure (some authorities dispute this), but I personally have seen a much greater degree of pre-breeding behavior at the start of rains here in Oregon. At the onset of the rainy season, raise the water level up again at fill. Restart the filter, use peat as this to will encourage fish to get into breeding behavior. For the wet season, water was raised at 1-degree temperature difference from the current water temperature. The fish react to changes in rainwater in the Amazon and helps make the breeding season begin. Jim stated that he had good success following this regimen even though it is time-consuming. The end results did bear fruit. Aquarist attempting this should remember, each circumstances are different. What worked for Jim may not work for you and there are many reason's for that. Some hobbyist take the opinion all they have to do is simulate the conditions and their fish automatically will spawn. As discussed here and elsewhere in OPEFE, it takes more than that and certainly the fishes must be conditioned first. Without this key, then you are basically wasting your time. There is no magic formula, but common sense does help and knowing the fish and what their requirements are, helps tremendously in bringing a satisfactory result.

According to present scientific studies, the size at sexual maturity of P. cariba varied in connection with sex, 50% maturity occurred at 188 mm SL (7.402 in.) for females and 165 mm SL (6.496 in.) for males. Female and male P. cariba underwent annual gonadal maturation from January to April/May, and spawning or spermiation occurred between July and August (Guerrero HY, Caceres-Dittmar G, Marcano D.)."*
*http://www.opefe.com/cariba.html

Here's the link to it.
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=128813


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## mexico

LS1FDRx7 said:


> It is possible, It's been done. Here's an article on it. Read all of it if your serious about breeding Pygocentrus cariba. Hope that helps.
> 
> "A few hobbyists have reportedly accomplished the breeding of Pygocentrus cariba. The requirements for breeding this species don't differ much from Pygocentrus nattereri, with a few exceptions. The dry season and wet season need to be applied to this species, but in itself is not really necessary. Good conditions, feeding and care all play an important part than just simulating the seasons. The aquarium size for a sexually mature pair, should be at least a minimum of 55 gallons, heavily planted on one side, the other side bare. The potential breeders should be afforded privacy, so sides of the aquarium should be blocked to prevent the fish from seeing you and free of outside disturbances. Males become dark and the females (at least on reported spawning) are the aggressors. They do build a nest consisting of blowing out sand and/or laying eggs in roots of plants. The rio Orinoco rivers water chemistry is as follows; pH: 4.5-7 (6.0); 2-8 dH (6); 75-82°F (24-28°C). For breeding purposes, water temperature should be at the high-end (84F). The area also undergoes a period of a dry season from October - March. The rainy season runs from April - September. Many aquarists go to a lot of trouble to set up water chemistry and aquascaping to get their fish to spawn. The problem seems to be to get the fish in the mood and try to simulate (and stimulate) their spawning season. While it is true that most fish spawn seasonally, it is not necessarily because it is compulsory for them, only that the habitat regulates when they can. If the habitat allows continuous spawning, most commonly in hydroelectric reservoirs, then the fish will take advantage of that. An example is the Brazilian piranha Serrasalmus spilopleura (= S. maculatus), which changes its behavior to spawn continuously in reservoirs (Dale Speirs, California Academy of Sciences).
> 
> According to hobbyist and business owner, Jim Smith formerly of Lurking In The Weeds Pet Store in Michigan, who has successfully bred this species, he recommends keeping an air stone going on one side of the tank. This way when you simulate a dry season (for 1 week) you can turn off filters. Drop the water level down 20% of fill. Keep a close watch of weather patterns as Jim says these fish are effected by barometric pressure (some authorities dispute this), but I personally have seen a much greater degree of pre-breeding behavior at the start of rains here in Oregon. At the onset of the rainy season, raise the water level up again at fill. Restart the filter, use peat as this to will encourage fish to get into breeding behavior. For the wet season, water was raised at 1-degree temperature difference from the current water temperature. The fish react to changes in rainwater in the Amazon and helps make the breeding season begin. Jim stated that he had good success following this regimen even though it is time-consuming. The end results did bear fruit. Aquarist attempting this should remember, each circumstances are different. What worked for Jim may not work for you and there are many reason's for that. Some hobbyist take the opinion all they have to do is simulate the conditions and their fish automatically will spawn. As discussed here and elsewhere in OPEFE, it takes more than that and certainly the fishes must be conditioned first. Without this key, then you are basically wasting your time. There is no magic formula, but common sense does help and knowing the fish and what their requirements are, helps tremendously in bringing a satisfactory result.
> 
> According to present scientific studies, the size at sexual maturity of P. cariba varied in connection with sex, 50% maturity occurred at 188 mm SL (7.402 in.) for females and 165 mm SL (6.496 in.) for males. Female and male P. cariba underwent annual gonadal maturation from January to April/May, and spawning or spermiation occurred between July and August (Guerrero HY, Caceres-Dittmar G, Marcano D.)."*
> *http://www.opefe.com/cariba.html
> 
> Here's the link to it.
> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=128813


Jim Smith never bred Caribes. Believe me i know, Jim never bred them.


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## CLUSTER ONE

how do you know this then?


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## wallago2111

mexico said:


> It is possible, It's been done. Here's an article on it. Read all of it if your serious about breeding Pygocentrus cariba. Hope that helps.
> 
> "A few hobbyists have reportedly accomplished the breeding of Pygocentrus cariba. The requirements for breeding this species don't differ much from Pygocentrus nattereri, with a few exceptions. The dry season and wet season need to be applied to this species, but in itself is not really necessary. Good conditions, feeding and care all play an important part than just simulating the seasons. The aquarium size for a sexually mature pair, should be at least a minimum of 55 gallons, heavily planted on one side, the other side bare. The potential breeders should be afforded privacy, so sides of the aquarium should be blocked to prevent the fish from seeing you and free of outside disturbances. Males become dark and the females (at least on reported spawning) are the aggressors. They do build a nest consisting of blowing out sand and/or laying eggs in roots of plants. The rio Orinoco rivers water chemistry is as follows; pH: 4.5-7 (6.0); 2-8 dH (6); 75-82°F (24-28°C). For breeding purposes, water temperature should be at the high-end (84F). The area also undergoes a period of a dry season from October - March. The rainy season runs from April - September. Many aquarists go to a lot of trouble to set up water chemistry and aquascaping to get their fish to spawn. The problem seems to be to get the fish in the mood and try to simulate (and stimulate) their spawning season. While it is true that most fish spawn seasonally, it is not necessarily because it is compulsory for them, only that the habitat regulates when they can. If the habitat allows continuous spawning, most commonly in hydroelectric reservoirs, then the fish will take advantage of that. An example is the Brazilian piranha Serrasalmus spilopleura (= S. maculatus), which changes its behavior to spawn continuously in reservoirs (Dale Speirs, California Academy of Sciences).
> 
> According to hobbyist and business owner, Jim Smith formerly of Lurking In The Weeds Pet Store in Michigan, who has successfully bred this species, he recommends keeping an air stone going on one side of the tank. This way when you simulate a dry season (for 1 week) you can turn off filters. Drop the water level down 20% of fill. Keep a close watch of weather patterns as Jim says these fish are effected by barometric pressure (some authorities dispute this), but I personally have seen a much greater degree of pre-breeding behavior at the start of rains here in Oregon. At the onset of the rainy season, raise the water level up again at fill. Restart the filter, use peat as this to will encourage fish to get into breeding behavior. For the wet season, water was raised at 1-degree temperature difference from the current water temperature. The fish react to changes in rainwater in the Amazon and helps make the breeding season begin. Jim stated that he had good success following this regimen even though it is time-consuming. The end results did bear fruit. Aquarist attempting this should remember, each circumstances are different. What worked for Jim may not work for you and there are many reason's for that. Some hobbyist take the opinion all they have to do is simulate the conditions and their fish automatically will spawn. As discussed here and elsewhere in OPEFE, it takes more than that and certainly the fishes must be conditioned first. Without this key, then you are basically wasting your time. There is no magic formula, but common sense does help and knowing the fish and what their requirements are, helps tremendously in bringing a satisfactory result.
> 
> According to present scientific studies, the size at sexual maturity of P. cariba varied in connection with sex, 50% maturity occurred at 188 mm SL (7.402 in.) for females and 165 mm SL (6.496 in.) for males. Female and male P. cariba underwent annual gonadal maturation from January to April/May, and spawning or spermiation occurred between July and August (Guerrero HY, Caceres-Dittmar G, Marcano D.)."*
> *http://www.opefe.com/cariba.html
> 
> Here's the link to it.
> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=128813


Jim Smith never bred Caribes. Believe me i know, Jim never bred them.
[/quote]
I am sort of tired of people saying they KNOW I didn't breed these fish when they don't have any idea or knowledge of me or my successes . I have reported my experiences to help those who want it, but I am continually berated, simply because I didn't photograph the spawn. I guess that means I haven't spawned guppies either or convict cichlids as I have no photo record of those events either. I have kept and bred fish for over 45 years and I do it for my pleasure not for anyone elses approval. So please Mexico, if you have proof of what you say, than please inform me as to what it is , because I know I wasn't dreaming when I did the breeding. Maybe you just can't except the fact that you are not talented enough to breed them so you attack others to justify your lack of success. The only other reason you might say such things is you just don't like me, then thats fine, but it doesn't change the facts.


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## hastatus

> mexico Posted Yesterday, 12:30 PM ....Jim Smith never bred Caribes. Believe me i know, Jim never bred them.


Perhaps you don't know, the people (with the exception of Dave Schleser) who write piranha books (Myers, Quinn, Pinkguni etc.,) only kept piranha once or never at all. Yet they are looked as "authorities" on piranhas because their name is on a book.



> I am sort of tired of people saying they KNOW I didn't breed these fish when they don't have any idea or knowledge of me or my successes . I have reported my experiences to help those who want it, but I am continually berated, simply because I didn't photograph the spawn. I guess that means I haven't spawned guppies either or convict cichlids as I have no photo record of those events either. I have kept and bred fish for over 45 years and I do it for my pleasure not for anyone elses approval. So please Mexico, if you have proof of what you say, than please inform me as to what it is , because I know I wasn't dreaming when I did the breeding. Maybe you just can't except the fact that you are not talented enough to breed them so you attack others to justify your lack of success. The only other reason you might say such things is you just don't like me, then thats fine, but it doesn't change the facts.


Like Jim, I'm fed up with the naysayers who come in on this forum or others and profess to be experts on information when they can't even ID their own cars. This forum is to share breeding information. *If you can't contribute valid information, stay out of the forum.*


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## CLUSTER ONE

nver knew jim was a member here


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## Grosse Gurke

I have talked to Jim and he is one of the nicest guys you could ever talk too. He didnt breed these fish for anything other then his own satisfaction...so not having any pictures or video of this is exactly what you would expect. He is continuing to breed fish that have never been bred in captivity....it is his hobby....and if you spoke with him you would know the passion he has for this hobby.

To even suggest he didnt breed these fish is not only ignorant....but pathetic. There are actually people that breed fish for their own enjoyment...(and not for the reach around they might get from other hobbyists, the financial aspect, or even the lure of a book deal)........so they dont feel the need to advertise it to everyone. If you ever spoke to Jim..there is no way you would question his integrity.


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## wallago2111

Grosse Gurke said:


> I have talked to Jim and he is one of the nicest guys you could ever talk too. He didnt breed these fish for anything other then his own satisfaction...so not having any pictures or video of this is exactly what you would expect. He is continuing to breed fish that have never been bred in captivity....it is his hobby....and if you spoke with him you would know the passion he has for this hobby.
> 
> To even suggest he didnt breed these fish is not only ignorant....but pathetic. There are actually people that breed fish for their own enjoyment...(and not for the reach around they might get from other hobbyists, the financial aspect, or even the lure of a book deal)........so they dont feel the need to advertise it to everyone. If you ever spoke to Jim..there is no way you would question his integrity.


Thank you for the kind words, I am so happy there are still people that accept the fact that this is still the greatest hobby in the world and we as individuals can enjoy it for no other reason than we love it. I don't know why some people want to reduce it to an ego or money thing but they will never understand why I am proud to call myself a hobbist. Thank you all again for the kind words, I am very honored to have your support.


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## pharmandora

I don't need any more money. It's only a hobby for me! In Turkey we can not find wild species; like cariba, piraya or serras. I only want to bred and give them to hobiist!


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## wallago2111

Ephimetheus said:


> I don't need any more money. It's only a hobby for me! In Turkey we can not find wild species; like cariba, piraya or serras. I only want to bred and give them to hobiist!


I am sure you want to breed them for the thrill of it all and in the process have some fish to share with your friends. I wish you all the success in the world, if your willing to dedicate yourself and put in the hours I am certain you will be rewarded with a successful spawn. these fish are very fickle but if you don't lose faith they can be spawned. It was mentioned earlier that conditioning is very important and I would agree 100% feed them lots of different foods ,like crawlers, shrimp, fish even liver and be sure to keep the tank clean . I even used some vitamins which I injected into smelt. I hope you nothing but good fortune.


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## hastatus

I think this topic is worth pinning. Simply because it keeps cropping up from people that want to discredit John and OPEFE information. So I'm pinning it up for future reference should anyone care to bring it up again.


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## bigshawn

Great Idea, there are a few assholes on this board and even more that have owned a piranha or two for a couple of years and think they now it all, but all and all this is THE BEST FORUM about Piranha's on the internet hands down........................


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## El_Amo.

Very good post


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## pharmandora

It will be very diffucult for me! I can't buffer pH!

Kh: 2
gh: 5

but..................

pH: 7,6!

How can i decrease pH?


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## pirayaman

its gonna be hard for you reguardless cause your probley gonna listen to all this blah blah blah // abunch of people saying how its done and not having done it to see if what they preach actully works // blah blah blah // best advice is to watch the videos of the amazon piranhas take note of the habitat // and think // really what is the best wey to create there habitat and breeding conditions /// this whole cariba is gonna take a fresh outlook to succeed // not some old fart saying well this is what he told me to do /wen the he / he is refering to heard it from someone else and so on and so on as it that person actully wanted you to breed cariba right

some guy actully told me to throw ice chips in my tank thats how to get them to breed i laughed and said oh really thanks


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## ChilDawg

Wait, do I see someone saying how to do it when they haven't bred them but earlier in the post, they told the OP not to listen to others who haven't bred them?


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## pirayaman

ChilDawg said:


> Wait, do I see someone saying how to do it when they haven't bred them but earlier in the post, they told the OP not to listen to others who haven't bred them?


maybe i said what i ment wrong / how bout this ///////do the reaserch and figure it out on your own

and what are we talking about ////1 guy jim/// and 1000 storys about jim and jims experince/// bs if that s--t worked there would be more people talking about they bred cariba // / but there aint just abunch of posts on breeding cariba and all those posts die right after someone tells the poster how to do it by quoting jim


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## CLUSTER ONE

pirayaman said:


> Wait, do I see someone saying how to do it when they haven't bred them but earlier in the post, they told the OP not to listen to others who haven't bred them?


maybe i said what i ment wrong / how bout this ///////do the reaserch and figure it out on your own

and what are we talking about ////1 guy jim/// and 1000 storys about jim and jims experince/// bs if that s--t worked there would be more people talking about they bred cariba // / but there aint just abunch of posts on breeding cariba and all those posts die right after someone tells the poster how to do it by quoting jim
[/quote]
i get what you are saying but there are alot of people who breed reds and they can say all theri methods but there are still tons more out there that cant get theirs to spawn. Caribe breed in the wild so if you set up the conditions right they will breed. Since they havnt been bred much nobody really knows what triggers it and what doesnt. From my knowlage jim didnt document it much so we dont know if he buffed the water, added salts or other chemicals to the water or his local water worked.

People keep piraya too and they arnt bred. Why? people dont really know what triggers them to breed. Mayby in 50 years when people know what triggers them and what varibles dont matter people will be able to breed them.


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## pirayaman

yeah i hear that but as far as im concerend most reds will just breed on there own especially those tank rasied ones i even went the other day to the new petstore by my way and they had 3 reds in a tank and they just bred for no reason so

i think people are breeding piraya super reds and cariba also rhoms its dead of winter and shark aquarium has baby 2 inch super reds 2 inch pirayas and almost ever store near me has a ton of baby rhoms i bought caribas off a petstore in maryland and this guy had 4 tanks with 100 cariba 3 inchs


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## Piranha Madness

pirayaman said:


> yeah i hear that but as far as im concerend most reds will just breed on there own especially those tank rasied ones i even went the other day to the new petstore by my way and they had 3 reds in a tank and they just bred for no reason so
> 
> i think people are breeding piraya super reds and cariba also rhoms its dead of winter and shark aquarium has baby 2 inch super reds 2 inch pirayas and almost ever store near me has a ton of baby rhoms i bought caribas off a petstore in maryland and this guy had 4 tanks with 100 cariba 3 inchs


I just found this video about a "Caribe Pond",The way I see it all Pygo Species will breed if given the right conditions....Thanks,LW.....!!!!!!!


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## memen

Cariba breeding seems to be ok : http://www.cariba.ca/120g_cariba002.swf


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## pharmandora

memen said:


> Cariba breeding seems to be ok : http://www.cariba.ca/120g_cariba002.swf


I watched. I think baby caribas are from a pet shop! No photos of parents!


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## primetime3wise

if i was to try this, i *think* some of the keys would be (but these are not any new revelations):

1)patience, patience, patience. you may feel you are doing everything right, as far as factors for breeding, but they just aren't up to it. you might simulate the wet/dry seasons 15x, and still nothing, until your 16x attempt. they will breed when they are ready and not when you want them to. when they really like the conditions. luck too to find a pair that will readily breed.

2)simulate the wet/dry seasons. you could even experiment with expanding the dry season to a few months, but be careful. a point related to this might be to really try and duplicate ph, gh, etc that they would find in nature during the wet/dry seasons. some may say to just keep it steady, i would as a start, but if you are on your 3rd simulation, maybe experiment with this.

3)a huge tank would help, a 125g+, but i am sure a 300g wouldn't hurt, lol, like some of these small ponds. i see they have been bred in 55g or 75g, but a nice huge tank never hurts, esp. considering their max size. makes em feel more comfortable. i bet if you had a 1000g tank you would have offspring in almost no time. my s. maculatus did not show any signs when they were scrunched into a 75g, but bred a short time after i moved them to a 125g. they stay smaller than caribe, so even bigger for caribe could help.

4) a ton of plants and decor to mark off territories and breeding spots, even a ton of floating fake plants. i know that from rbp, it seems to help well. it's not necessary w/ rbp, but def. helps. i think it was crosshair who said he had like 3 breeding pairs in a 55g by marking off territories with decor/rock/plants that are 3/4 the total height of the tank, and dense (fake) vegetation all around. when i bred rbp and macs, i think setting up breeding territories def. helped to make them feel more secure in their environment. dense vegeatation is probably the key and just having an area large enough for them to mark off.

5)privacy...which i think was hinted at. i don't know if it matters much because my macs and reds both bred when i was around alot. hard to say, it's just another variable to experiment with. if rbp will breed w/ you in the room i don't see why caribe would not.

6)related to point 2, simulate their natural water chemistry. most will say just keep everything constant, even if you have a high ph...it may work with breeding reds and macs, but worth at least looking into.

like i said, none of these are really anything new, just some variables that you may want to experiment with. it's hard to say what is going to work because it's been done so rarely. i do believe that #4 is often ignored as something to experiment with, but, def. worth looking into. i do know that alan had his caribe darkening quite a bit, so he would be a good authority on this subject. i can only theorize on what might and might not, work. rbp and gold piranhas are the only two species that will breed very readily. the most important factor for my macs was turning the temp way up to like 84-86...they started fighting and breeding like madmen, then.

if you havn't tried #4 i really would, i think it would really help your odds.

again, patience, patience, and more patience...frank/hastatus will tell you this. they'll breed when they like the conditions and feel ready...not when you want them to.


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## pharmandora

Caribas in the picture have been brought from the same import of my caribas. They've been in same tank for last week and in this tank some natteris had been breeded by my friend. They act like they dance. What are your opinions?


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## cariba.ca

I didn't.

Good luck.


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## DaxD

I think it is possible with a very large aquarium. Enough space and you might succeed. Very interesting topic.


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