# Cichlids & Piranhas-- Jonas' Project



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

I would venture to say its for research, but then I'd have to deal with Frank & Co. ragging on me
















Taken straight from a PM discussion between Jonas and I:

*
I will have to admit you got a point with the aggression thing. But I musta just lucked out or somethin' cuz my sissy ass reds get more aggressive each month as soon as they got over 4 inches. now they are both about 6 inches with the yellow tern at over 8 inches and they are always aggressive. I like.

As for the guys question about oscars.....I've tried twice with oscars that were easily twice the girth of both the reds together and the oscar got bitch slapped every time.....still trying to find a good match.

he he he ! **


for research purposes, I'd like to ask you if you could go to an lfs and get a 6-8" central american cichlid, but not an oscar. A jack dempsey, a red devil, a midas, a trimac, a texas, a jaguar.... something along those lines. Stick it in your p tank and tell us what happens.

Of course, buying a large cichlid like that will cost $15-$30, and if you don't feel like shelling out just to confirm a silly point, i definitely understand. 


No worries. I will by all means do that as soon as payday comes around. Possibly this friday or next, that should be sufficient. I only wish I had a digital cam that took video so I could upload the results. All I have is a digicam that only does photo. So either way, I will post the results of this 'experiment' for all to enjoy.

Do you have any suggestions on which one would be the most aggressive of the aformentioned species ? and should I go with one the same size as the p's or within close proximity ? that way there is at least a fair chance for both parties ? 


jaguar/managuense, trimac, flowerhorn, red terror, midas/red devil are the best, most aggressive choices that you will realistically find in a lfs. Yes, try to make sure they are similar in length to this 8" tern of yours, so don't get anything less than 6" long or your tern's gonna eat it regardless.

If you can't get the aforementioned specimens though, jack dempsey/texas will work fine as well.

Make sure the p's are well-fed before you throw the cichlid in-- just like any other fish, cichlids need to have a moment to acclimate to the tank as well. After that, its your call, but I'd try maintaining the regular feeding schedule for a week, and if nothing happens in the first week, then perhaps try starving the p's. *


----------



## DiXoN (Jan 31, 2003)

i can tell you the outcome the cichlid is going to go balistic for a p lock jaws and have it bitten off then the rest will eat it.
dixon


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)




----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

DiXoN said:


> i can tell you the outcome the cichlid is going to go balistic for a p lock jaws and have it bitten off then the rest will eat it.
> dixon


 that's a possibility, but just because it happened to EMJAY doesn't mean it will definitely happen again. Its not as if this setup hasn't been done many times before-- I just wanted to get some more firsthand info rather than the secondhand stories that are told all the time on PFish.


----------



## rday (Mar 10, 2003)

when i added a texas to my cichlid tank this weekend, it seemed like he went in with the prison mentality: on the first day you have to kick someone's ass or become someone's bitch... within 5 minutes of being released he was fighting with a pike. the pikes big ass mouth almost engulfed the texas's head... needless to say, the texas is now the bitch...


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

rday said:


> when i added a texas to my cichlid tank this weekend, it seemed like he went in with the prison mentality: on the first day you have to kick someone's ass or become someone's bitch... within 5 minutes of being released he was fighting with a pike


very characteristic of Texases


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

UPDATE, quoted from Jonas via PM

No midas, oscars suck, etc. I went and bought a jack dempsey. He is about the same size as my yellow tern. ( roughly 8 inches ) I'm amazed at how he is actually pretty attractive looking.

So far, no pics. no need to yet really. He did immediately start harrassing all 3 of my p's and for 12 straight hours, he acted like boss.

Finally, my tern got sick of his sh*t and gave him a big kiss on the lower lip, taking about 1/3 of his bottom lip with it and some other skin, then proceeded to fin nip his tail for about 10 excrutiating minutes until the dempsey turned submissive and started to hide.

He has still been hiding constantly for the last 72 hours only to take the occasional jab at passerby when they get too close for his comfort level (or it's pellet feeding time ) Thus far, I am proud to say he is holding his own but now knows the others have more arsenal than himself. Perhaps he will make it eh ?

Let's sum this first chapter of the story up by saying he (the dempsey) is no longer in a position to exert his authority in the tank and the tern reminds him of this fact when he comes out of hiding.

good piranhas...


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

So then, is this dempsey visibly fucked-up-- does he look like a tobacco-chewer?

when you can, try and get some pics so we can see what your tank looks like, or if you've already set up pics about what layout of your tank looks like somewhere else on the forums, link us

also, how big is the tank?


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm not impressed


----------



## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

hehehehehehehe

really thats a waste of a really nice cichlid


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Death in # said:


> hehehehehehehe
> 
> really thats a waste of a really nice cichlid


 its far from dead, though I imagine its not the prettiest sight right now


----------



## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

When are you people going to learn,
Agression in fishes is not inborn, Piranaha are naturally really
very calm fish, those teeth are for feeding not violence for the sake of it,
Cichlids are naturally territorial they seek a space of their own,

Gee what would happen if you put a Cichlid with a Piranaha,
Does this take anyone with a IQ over 20 to figure out.

Duh, there will be a problem, teeth in defense over territorial instinct
Really this is quite elementry school material

Good thing your not calling this science I'd rip you a new asshole
For proposing such an idiotic and stupid experiment that proves or
contributes nothing except for idiotic enjoyment in the suffering of
another animal, even though you know very well the outcome.


----------



## fishofury (May 10, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> So then, is this dempsey visibly fucked-up-- does he look like a tobacco-chewer?
> 
> when you can, try and get some pics so we can see what your tank looks like, or if you've already set up pics about what layout of your tank looks like somewhere else on the forums, link us
> 
> also, how big is the tank?


 Are you asking yourself a question here?


----------



## Zuri (Jun 23, 2003)

This thread makes an excellent point. For about 2 weeks, I kept my African Cichlid in my RBP tank. Major mistake. He tried bullying my reds and they fought back. Luckily, I have lots of tanks to keep fish in and was able to move it. The only fish I have been able to successfully keep with the Ps is a Rafael Cat, and that's only because it's very secretive and hides all day.

The senior members have made this point many times, if you want to keep beautiful fish besides your Ps, DON'T PUT THEM IN YOUR P TANK. Very simple and the result is almost always the same. The Piranhas will most always win.


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> When are you people going to learn,
> Agression in fishes is not inborn, Piranaha are naturally really
> very calm fish, those teeth are for feeding not violence for the sake of it,
> Cichlids are naturally territorial they seek a space of their own,
> ...


 I guess that's about all there is to say about this matter...


----------



## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> When are you people going to learn,
> Agression in fishes is not inborn, Piranaha are naturally really
> very calm fish, those teeth are for feeding not violence for the sake of it,
> Cichlids are naturally territorial they seek a space of their own,
> ...


 uuh no? Your wrong buddy. Mixtures are all over this site. I'm one of those guys with and oscar and cichlid in my P tank. I'm going to call you on that Iq thing too, It's not a matter of IQ it's balls. I've lost some fish, but the ones that are left are tough as hell, and my oscar isn't going down...


----------



## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

But it has nothing to do with agression of the fish (what was presumed first). It's all about instinct, and the way cichlids and p's act according to that....

Of course they be kept together, sometimes with succes, sometimes not (just like it is with keeping all sorts of other fish with your piranha), but you cannot deduct 'iron laws' from that...


----------



## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> But it has nothing to do with agression of the fish (what was presumed first). It's all about instinct, and the way cichlids and p's act according to that....
> 
> Of course they be kept together, sometimes with succes, sometimes not (just like it is with keeping all sorts of other fish with your piranha), but you cannot deduct 'iron laws' from that...


 Well put!


----------



## tinyteeth (Mar 12, 2003)

i keep these with my reds; oscar, cons, bala sharks, tinfoil barbs, and a loach. the reds dont try to chase them cause they know what food tastes better (krill and goldfish). in my spilo tank, ive kept a con (now in red tank) and a jaguar. the jag doesnt bother the spilo, and the spilo just fin nipped the jag twice. its been 2-3 months and they have their own space.

but to mix cichlid and Ps just to watch them fight is your own choice.


----------



## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> When are you people going to learn,
> Agression in fishes is not inborn, Piranaha are naturally really
> very calm fish, those teeth are for feeding not violence for the sake of it,
> Cichlids are naturally territorial they seek a space of their own,
> ...


 very well said.. :smile:


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> When are you people going to learn,
> Agression in fishes is not inborn, Piranaha are naturally really
> very calm fish, those teeth are for feeding not violence for the sake of it,
> Cichlids are naturally territorial they seek a space of their own,
> ...


a lot of the time the cichlid ends up killing p(s) (although I knew a JD wouldn't be killing anything), and alot of the time the p's and cichlids end up living in relative harmony, and if you disagree with any of these points your more than welcome to investigate for yourself on any major fish board.

Anyhow its still good as a firsthand look at how p's and semi-aggressive cichlids interact, regardless. This experiment isn't any more immoral than any other fish setup out there in which a fish gets stressed, so I don't see why you feel like attacking this particular thread. If this upsets you so bad, poly, then why don't you go out and bash all the people who keep Target fish?







Go forth and tell everyone the evils of keeping fish that are meant to be used as meat shields.







You surely know you'd run into alot of dissent if you did, so what drives you to rant on this particular thread?

There have been two Semi-Aggressive cichlids kept with p's at present now, to my knowledge-- and BOTH semi-aggressive cichlids ended up getting their lower jaw damaged/destroyed (Jonas' JD and Emjay's GT). That's something that I can use as a future reference. Good material imo


----------



## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

I never disagreed That Piranaha and other fish can live in harmony,
I know they can in fact I have seen one of the most interesting Myself








Look at this pic really close

In the foreground is an Ameca splendens, An endangered Mexican Livebearer
Look toward the back, That a Red belly piranaha, They do not even bother
To eat these fish. and they live in pure harmony, Piranaha can and will live with
a variety of other species if Housing Conditions are Right.I'm not an Idiot I've been
around the block a bit, I've seen it often with other fish as well, Co-habitation of
"Agressive" fishes is not uncommon.

If you throw a Known territorial Cichlid in a new tank, the first thing it does is
Establish territory, if it attacks a Piranaha you already know what will happen,
This is not even nessesary to experiment with, It's common sense. the attacking
Cichlid is going to get a jaw Maimed or it will be killed.

An understanding of Both species and some Brainwork is all that is needed
to come up with that conclusion, Torturing Two fish is not at all
nessesary, I never used the Moral word,
I do not Anthropomorphize Fishes, only thing that Upsets me
really, is the idiocy and lack of respect in a living animal, When you fully
Know the out come is obvious, any such "experiment" is unnessesary
and very Un-ethical,


----------



## Lahot (May 20, 2003)

Polypterus said:


> In the foreground is an Ameca splendens, An endangered Mexican Livebearer


 looks like a 'fancy guppy', the pic is very dark.


----------



## STIFFY (Jul 9, 2003)

So even if they do eat him what is the big deal. Big fish eats small fish. Its the way the world works.


----------



## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

jack dempseys = HUGE wusses


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Lahot said:


> Polypterus said:
> 
> 
> > In the foreground is an Ameca splendens, An endangered Mexican Livebearer
> ...


 yes the pic is dark, and that is why when it was in the non-piranha POTM I had it lightend









also I 100% agree with Polypetrus here,

P45 & GB - seriously you are giving out bad ideas in this thread, and to suggest to do things like this is simply bad advice, perhaps that is why this forum is lead be myself and Polypetrus and not you


----------



## Lahot (May 20, 2003)

thanks Innes, it's a good looking pic when you can see it :nod:


----------



## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

You should have even waisted your time with a JD. Why didnt you tru a devil or a mang, if you insisted on doing this.


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Innes said:


> also I 100% agree with Polypetrus here,
> 
> P45 & GB - seriously you are giving out bad ideas in this thread, and to suggest to do things like this is simply bad advice


 It is an accepted fact that many aquarists approve of target fish, and this "experiment", effectively, concerns nothing more than that.

I am not doling out advice either; only suggestions. Im not even the experimenter. Go bash on Jonas if you have a problem with this.

I'm also terribly flattered that you infer I'd otherwise make a good mod, lol


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

BDKing57 said:


> You should have even waisted your time with a JD. Why didnt you tru a devil or a mang, if you insisted on doing this.


well as you can see I tried to push that as well, but I really doubt there's too many LFSes out there that have 8" devils and mangs lying around, so the JD has to be a compromise. Better than no cichlid at all :sad: His JD at least allegedly harassed the ps a little, so at least it could be worse.


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Innes said:


> also I 100% agree with Polypetrus here,
> 
> P45 & GB - seriously you are giving out bad ideas in this thread, and to suggest to do things like this is simply bad advice, perhaps that is why this forum is lead be myself and Polypetrus and not you


http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/in...=ST&f=3&t=10734

Go bash XENON! roflmao

yeah, that'll shut your traps
















its all fun and games to rag on little pea-sized members but when the admin does something you keep silent


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

come on, people, where are all the







on HIS thread, huh?

you should be ashamed


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Innes said:


> P45 & GB - perhaps that is why this forum is lead be myself and Polypetrus and not you


I just thought I'd let you eat your own f*cking words. How do they taste? Deeeelicious I'll bet









:bleh:


----------



## thomisdead (Mar 31, 2003)

Someone fed their P's a Jack Dempsey. Big Deal!?!

I decided to feed my Spilo some convicts about a month ago. He hasn't eaten them yet. Am I immoral?


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

thomisdead said:


> Someone fed their P's a Jack Dempsey. Big Deal!?!
> 
> I decided to feed my Spilo some convicts about a month ago. He hasn't eaten them yet. Am I immoral?


not anymore, because Xenon did it and noone has the balls to say anything to him


----------



## Kyle187 (Aug 9, 2003)

yah yah Cichlids this p's that i am going to agree that pirahana r going to take down almost all fish if they want to due to the teeth part and the pack fight attack all i have to say is take all the p's out of ur tank except one as i did so 
Add this fish in A texas mix bread red devil about 1/2 bigg then p i tell u this mix bread cichilid tought that P to eat sh*t dropped in my other to P and the story ends there


----------



## marcc420 (Jun 14, 2003)

i just thru in a flowerhorn with my 11 2" rbp's seems to be doing good at the moment what shal i feed it?


----------



## marcc420 (Jun 14, 2003)

nvm not doing so good now


----------



## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

marcc420 said:


> i just thru in a flowerhorn with my 11 2" rbp's seems to be doing good at the moment what shal i feed it?


I wouldn't worry about food. If it's anything like my flowerhorn, he'll eat those p*ssy p's like he's already done. So go take that all you p homerboyz that think teeth matter and think that p's rule.

Why in the hell is anyone here getting on p45?

I never ever get into anything that causes controversy unless it's to mess with others, but get off his ass!

What in the hell did he do wrong here? He is only stating what he feels and what he has experienced. To me, that non-argumentative!!!!

He is getting lambasted by piranha homies that are clueless.

First of all, for all of you idiots hating on p45 for saying that a cichlid *can't* kill a p. I got news for you. I got 2 FH's that will prove all of you wrong! Bring them to me if you don't believe me and think your p's are so bad.

A couple months ago I put one of my FH's in the p's tank (all you piranha fanboys, make sure you read tyhat right...I put a FH into a p's territory of which the p has always owned ok?) and while I set and cleaned the other tank up, 35-40 mins later I went to get the FH and put him in there, but no, he had that p*ssy p in his jaws and was going to the top of the tank and diving to the bottom and slamming him into the bottom, then grinding him into it. I tried to save the p and take him out of the FH's mouth but he took off swimming and so I let them go and the FH was banging his ass on the glass and then the bottom and grinding his ass into the gravel.

So all of you that think it can't happen, you need to be quiet and learn more because it's obvious you don't have a fricken clue.

I've had p's for 17 years, so it's not like I don't like them and am only backing cichlids.

Get off my boy p45. He's only trying to see in his opinion what happens and then he gets flamed by everyone. It's not cool guys.

Most of you think p's are bad because they have teeth and they go after 1 fish, when there are a thousand of them!

I know there is no single p that can handle ANY aggro cichlid when it comes to 100 of them against any p.

Just be cool guys and don't flame people for their thoughts or what they try to learn. IMO, that's all p45 tried to do here and he was treated very unfairly for it by a bunch of clueless and homer fanboys that aren't thinking straight.


----------



## STIFFY (Jul 9, 2003)

Feeding Ps other fish isnt a big deal. I just gave mine another oscar today. Feeding live food is 1000x better than watching them eat cut up meat. NE ways its more natural for the fich. It brings out its hunging instincts.


----------



## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

kawi ryder said:


> Feeding Ps other fish isnt a big deal. I just gave mine another oscar today. Feeding live food is 1000x better than watching them eat cut up meat. NE ways its more natural for the fich. It brings out its hunging instincts.


 Depending on what you feed the fish before the p's eat them, fish have almost no nutrional value at all.


----------



## marcc420 (Jun 14, 2003)

HawgHunter11 said:


> marcc420 said:
> 
> 
> > i just thru in a flowerhorn with my 11 2" rbp's seems to be doing good at the moment what shal i feed it?
> ...


ha the flower horn would not eat my p's my p's ate his tale so i thru him in my 10gal till i get my 240 and ill let him help cycle it them ill give him back to the p's and if you dont like p's what the hell are you doing on this forum? piranha fury not cichlid fury


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

marcc420 said:


> ha the flower horn would not eat my p's my p's ate his tale so i thru him in my 10gal till i get my 240 and ill let him help cycle it them ill give him back to the p's and if you dont like p's what the hell are you doing on this forum? piranha fury not cichlid fury


not on *THIS* forum







If you hadn't noticed, this is Non-Piranha, biatch!


----------



## marcc420 (Jun 14, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> marcc420 said:
> 
> 
> > ha the flower horn would not eat my p's my p's ate his tale so i thru him in my 10gal till i get my 240 and ill let him help cycle it them ill give him back to the p's and if you dont like p's what the hell are you doing on this forum? piranha fury not cichlid fury
> ...


 i'm talking about this forum in genral perhaps the web site its self "biatch!"


----------



## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)




----------



## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

> ha the flower horn would not eat my p's my p's ate his tale so i thru him in my 10gal till i get my 240 and ill let him help cycle it them ill give him back to the p's and if you dont like p's what the hell are you doing on this forum? piranha fury not cichlid fury


Did you even read my post???









I sai I've had p's for 17 years and with cichlids for over 25 years and like p's. I always will.

I'm a realist. I'm sorry that offends you.

I'm just not as dilusional as you rookie p owners to think that anything is guaranteed so maybe I go a little overboard on the other side because I'm tired of hearing about this fish can beat that fish. It's stupid, imo. So yes, I do get involved into it and say things I don't want to or normally wouldn't.

*No* p can kill all cichlids and no cichlid can kill all p's.

BTW, the fact that you say that no cichlid can kill your p is exactly what I'm talking about. You just proved my pojnt to a "T"!. My FH already liquidated a P! How can you say it can't happen??? That's exactly my point here! Get over it man. No fish is indestructable, especially not p's.

Yes, there is a cichlid out there that will be happy to liquidate that P you have. Like it or not. Don't kid yourself.


----------



## marcc420 (Jun 14, 2003)

HawgHunter11 said:


> BTW, the fact that you say that no cichlid can kill your p is exactly what I'm talking about. You just proved my pojnt to a "T"!. My FH already liquidated a P! How can you say it can't happen??? That's exactly my point here! Get over it man. No fish is indestructable, especially not p's.
> 
> Yes, there is a cichlid out there that will be happy to liquidate that P you have. Like it or not. Don't kid yourself.


 did you even read my post? where do you get "no cichlid" from the? i sed the flowerhorn as in *MY * flowerhorn i'm sure there are flower horns thet can eat my whopping 2" p's what of it?


----------



## smb (Jun 1, 2003)

marcc420 said:


> HawgHunter11 said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, the fact that you say that no cichlid can kill your p is exactly what I'm talking about. You just proved my pojnt to a "T"!. My FH already liquidated a P! How can you say it can't happen??? That's exactly my point here! Get over it man. No fish is indestructable, especially not p's.
> ...


 I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. I honestly don't care what you think at all, but you never said *YOUR* FH.

After my post you said--



> ha the flower horn would not eat my p's my p's ate his tale so i thru him in my 10gal till i get my 240 and ill let him help cycle it them ill give him back to the p's and if you dont like p's what the hell are you doing on this forum? piranha fury not cichlid fury


Where in there does it say your fh and where do you say 2" p's?

I took offense because you asked what the hell am I doing here if I didn't like p's. I do like p's and have probably had them longer than most here have been alive, but even if I didn't what business is it of yours if I'm here or not? If the mods or admin don't want me here then let them deal with it, not you. If you don't like me here, PM them and tell them then if you like.

My only point was that when people make a blanket statement that all p's (or all cichlids for that matter) can kill all cichlids, it lets everyone know right off that whoever says that doesn't really know the hobby at all , or appreciate what it's all about.

I was only answering your question and that was why I replied before.

I'm done arguing about it and just meant to make a statement because I hate these who's fish is badder and I hate when people think that p's are always badder. Stupid subjects like that always piss me off. For that, I do apologize.

Say whatever you want about me, but I'm not going to argue with you about it or even reply to you any more. I know what I know and tried to let you know and it's up to you to take that info and learn from it or not.


----------



## marcc420 (Jun 14, 2003)

marcc420 said:


> i just thru in a flowerhorn with my 11 2" rbp's seems to be doing good at the moment what shal i feed it?


 you are making no sense and here is where is says my 2" p's


----------



## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

piranha45 said:


> Innes said:
> 
> 
> > P45 & GB - perhaps that is why this forum is lead be myself and Polypetrus and not you
> ...


----------

