# Live vs. Non-Live feedings



## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't usually make rant threads (or any threads for that matter), but lately I have been witness to alot of Live feeding topics. Sure, the pro-live feeding people will tell me to shut up and don't look at their threads, but hear me out for a second. 
In a hobby where the hobbiest should be concerned with the proper growth and health of their fish, feeding live food serves no beneficial purpose. The same nutritional value can be obtained from whole frozen fish, shrimp, and beefheart. I will actualy go ahead and say that feeding non-live is BETTER since you are able to stuff the food with pellets, or other supplements that will allow for your fish to be healthier and grow faster. 
I simply see feeding live food as rediculous. It is the equivelant of locking someone in a room with a pig and waiting to see them butcher it. Makes absolutely no sense to me..


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=51402


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

I honestly dont mind feeding live foods to my fish.
Even if it's like feeding them a BUrger. I dont recemmend doing it EVERYDAY day Like I did for my Piranhas...But it did keep them moving and they grew pretty big before the ''Accident''. But all In all, Im for it.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

This is not a Lounge topic...Off to the Feeding and Nurtrition Forum..


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## acb (Nov 9, 2004)

> It is the equivelant of locking someone in a room with a pig and waiting to see them butcher it. Makes absolutely no sense to me..


piranhas eat live foods in the wild? is that rediculous?

As for your question i feed my P's a variety of cichlid pellets and feeders


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

If all a fish will eat is live food, then yes, it's necisary. But if the fish will accept fish fillets, smelt, shrimp, etc, I really dont see the need to feed live foods. I think people just like to feed live foods because it is "cool" (in thier opinion) and not this "it's their natural diet" BS. If you were actually concerned about their natural diets, you would feed them pellets so they get all the nutrients and vitamins they would get in the wild other than getting them all the helpful nutrients from those nice petsmart feeders....


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## Montana (Aug 10, 2005)

bottom line is p's should eat live food they evolved this way but ...its safer to feed them dead food


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

Montana said:


> bottom line is p's should eat live food they evolved this way but ...its safer to feed them dead food
> [snapback]1162676[/snapback]​


Piranhas should eat live food? maybe their body/jaw structure shows that they do eat live food in the wild, but who says that they shouldnt feed them a more healthy alternative? And last time I checked, wild piranhas were scavengers who feed on mainly dead fish/animals or sick and injured animals/fish.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

IMO... There is no benefit to the fish when feeding live food so there is no real purpose. I understand some people like doing it cause they wanna impress their buddies or whatever. Im not telling you what you can do and cant do with your fish. 
Like most predators in the wild, pirahana are primarily scavengers. They rarely will attack somethin living and when they do its because the animal is either so sick thats its a easy meal or its just about dead.
I guess the last point about live vs dead is cost. I can get a pound of shimp at the store for 2$. Catfish filet, talipia, smelt are all cheap as hell, 2-3.50 a pound. So from a cost perspective feading nonliving is also the way to go.

again, this is my opinion, do with your fish as you want.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

acb said:


> > It is the equivelant of locking someone in a room with a pig and waiting to see them butcher it. Makes absolutely no sense to me..
> 
> 
> piranhas eat live foods in the wild? is that rediculous?[snapback]1162606[/snapback]​


But they don't eat goldfish, minnows or rosy's bred for the sole purpose of being feeders. Neither do they eat (pinkie) mice.
Also is dumping live fod in a piranha tank in no way comparable to hunting in the wild - it's artificial, and the only thing it has in common with the situation in the wild is that it results in a dead prey. In captivity it's human selection that determines what is eaten ("_What should I feed my piranha's this time?_"), in the wild its natural selection - two 100% unrelated things.

Everyone should feed whatever he wants to his piranha's, but using it as an argument that it's good for them (exercise, nutritional value) is ridiculous, because untrue. Exercise can be offered with a powerhead and powerful filtration, the hunting instinct is always present (wheter it's a wild-caught fish or an x-th generation tank-bred fish), and as far as nutritional value goes, pinkies and feeders never ever even come close to what a diverse diet of prepared foods has to offer.
Again, feeding live is a decision everyone has to make for him/herself, but at least one should have the character/guts to admit why he/she does it...


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## midass (Jul 9, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> acb said:
> 
> 
> > > It is the equivelant of locking someone in a room with a pig and waiting to see them butcher it. Makes absolutely no sense to me..
> ...


Yeah, at least someone can spell. Good pts also.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

I'll be the 1st to admit...That TO ME...Feeding live food to a piranha is only for MY BENEFIT.

I love watching my Piranhas attack and tear apart live fish, mammals, reptiles, etc.









And yes everyone...I'm a sick psycho...and NO, I don't get a "boner" from watching them eat live foods.









However, I don't feed them only live food...I also feed them all types of non-live food such as fish fillets, chicken and steak/beef.

It just depends on what I feel like feeding them that week...As I only feed them Once a week.


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Copied post over from my own live feeding thread.

I do not feed anything live in my tanks. The reasons I don't: 
1- Not IMO healthy for my p's. The feeder could injure my p and bring disease into the tank. I like to feed a wide variety of fish filets and shrimp.
2- To messy. It fouls the water and is difficult to clean up.

However, I find live feeding videos interesting and enjoy watching them.

One of the main arguments I hear is that live feeding vids paint a bad picture of piranha owners. Piranhas have a bad stigma because it was created by the media which portrayed them as a "killer fish". The feeding vids do nothing more than show what a piranha will do when hungry or defending it's territory in an aquarium. What's wrong with that?

It's hard for people to view a piranha as something else other than a killer fish which rips prey and carcasses to shreds. Piranhas do exhibit that behavior and you can look at it two ways. 1- (Main Public Opinion) A savage fish that rips apart its prey (evil) or 2- A beautiful fish that is an intregal part to the eco-system. More of a scavenger than a predator. Piranha owners ,mostly, are the only ones who will dig deep enough to understand #2.

I do not agree with hiding the behavior of the fish to promote a better image. Which is basiclly what people are asking you to do when their argument is "feeding vids paint a bad picture of piranha owners and the fish".

One main point is a lot of people were attracted to the piranha hobby because the general public opinion of piranhas #1 and maybe saw a feeding video. After owning them though most learned a new appreciation and understanding in large part because of the people on this site.

Therefore, I do not think feeding videos are immoral or unnecessary. Right or wrong I think they have expanded the hobby farther than it would have gotten without them. It's all personal preferance. "Azeral walks back and stands against the fence"


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Azeral said:


> Copied post over from my own live feeding thread.
> 
> I do not feed anything live in my tanks. The reasons I don't:
> 1- Not IMO healthy for my p's. The feeder could injure my p and bring disease into the tank. I like to feed a wide variety of fish filets and shrimp.
> ...


Well said.


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## rocker (Aug 12, 2005)

i would say both a pretty good. In the wild they do eat dead fish and also live fish. I preffer live food more than dead fod though. It makes my P's more active and i think happy. But i dont always feed them live food. I do it as an occasional treat for them.


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I'll be the 1st to admit...That TO ME...Feeding live food to a piranha is only for MY BENEFIT.
> 
> I love watching my Piranhas attack and tear apart live fish, mammals, reptiles, etc.
> 
> ...


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

((( J2 ))) said:


> I'll be the 1st to admit...That TO ME...Feeding live food to a piranha is only for MY BENEFIT.
> 
> I love watching my Piranhas attack and tear apart live fish, mammals, reptiles, etc.
> 
> ...

















So I take it you voted No in my Live feeding poll. LOL


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## Goosteady (Aug 24, 2005)

What if you were some rich dude who had an indoor swimming pool that you converted to a tank and put a few hundred p's in there. Then you could toss whole buffalo in and watch a blood bath...now THAT would be badass!


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

I simply feed prepared foods over live foods for nutrition, safety, and ease. It is much safer, even if you quarantine the fish, and for me it is easier. Thaw a shrimp or silverside, plop it in, and remove any leftovers in 15 minutes.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Azeral said:


> I do not agree with hiding the behavior of the fish to promote a better image. Which is basiclly what people are asking you to do when their argument is "feeding vids paint a bad picture of piranha owners and the fish".[snapback]1166125[/snapback]​


Not feeding live food is not hiding their true behaviour (it can't be), for the simple reason that captive piranha's hunting stressed live fish (ones they'll never ever encounter in the wild) that can't leave the glass prison they are dropped in is not natural behaviour.


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Azeral said:
> 
> 
> > I do not agree with hiding the behavior of the fish to promote a better image. Which is basiclly what people are asking you to do when their argument is "feeding vids paint a bad picture of piranha owners and the fish".[snapback]1166125[/snapback]​
> ...


That is not what I was saying. People's who oppose live feeding "videos" because they believe it paints a bad picture of piranhas and their owners *are hiding it's true behavior. *
From videos I have seen of piranha in the wild and in an aquarium......they bite and eat fish the exact same way. An aquarium just forces the encounter. It looks vicious in the wild and in an aquarium.

The behavior I am talking about is the manner which they eat their prey. Not the reasons for it.


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

I disagree with alot of people here. I think feeding live food is beneficial for piranhas. It brings out their instinct and gives them excercise. I wouldn't recommend it as a everyday thing because piranhas do eat dead animals in the wild and non-living things. I think it is very important once in a while. I think it makes the piranhas more aggressive and lively. Saying that it makes them more active from the chases, I think it affects their growth as well.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Azeral said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Azeral said:
> ...


My bad - must have misinterpreted your post









jeddy hao: if you don't feed your piranha's live fish for several years, and then you drop them in, they'll go after them just like they always did - hunting is an instinct, not something that needs to be maintained. Yes, at first it may be a bit clumsy, but whether the last goldfish was fed yesterday or 3 years ago, piranha's know that's prey, and they know what to do...
And as far as exercise: a powerhead is all they need (chasing down a feeder really isn't that much of an exercise compared to swimming in currents all day...)


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> jeddy hao: if you don't feed your piranha's live fish for several years, and then you drop them in, they'll go after them just like they always did - hunting is an instinct, not something that needs to be maintained. Yes, at first it may be a bit clumsy, but whether the last goldfish was fed yesterday or 3 years ago, piranha's know that's prey, and they know what to do...
> And as far as exercise: a powerhead is all they need (chasing down a feeder really isn't that much of an exercise compared to swimming in currents all day...)
> [snapback]1170709[/snapback]​


As much as I hate it...I have to agree with Judazz here...

Its comparable to riding a bike...if you were to stop riding a bike for 3 years...do you think you wouldn't be able to ride it again? No...You'd still remember how...its something you have learned and is now insticnt...You don't forget how. Piranhas hunting is similar...Except they are born knowing how to hunt and they never forget...Its all instinct.


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## PuffPiff (May 23, 2005)

why does anyone even care what someone else does with their fish? my friend feeds his fish baby squirrels, sunnies,pinkies, rat pups, plecos, snails, oscars other p's,catfish, jack dempseys,green terrors,eels,geckos,anoles. I personally enjoy putting things in their that might survive (i currently have 2 black neons,out of 12, and 4 raphael catfish,4 out of 4) and i dont care what anyone says i will continue to do so. I dont tell him what to put in his tank and he doesnt tell me what to put in mine. I would tell him to put whatever he wants in there, I always bring up quarantine and disease just to let him know but it is his decision. I also really hate when people personally attack other members just because they live feed and make videos. If you dont want to watch it dont watch it, until they are banned or censored by Zenon they are allowed to be posted. So basically in closing if you want to provide info on why live feedings are bad for your fish that is a great help to everyone, but if you are just gonna attack the person and flame him on what is the point? He will still make the vid, save your time and energy for something more constructive.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

PuffPiff said:


> why does anyone even care what someone else does with their fish? my friend feeds his fish baby squirrels, sunnies,pinkies, rat pups, plecos, snails, oscars other p's,catfish, jack dempseys,green terrors,eels,geckos,anoles. I personally enjoy putting things in their that might survive (i currently have 2 black neons,out of 12, and 4 raphael catfish,4 out of 4) and i dont care what anyone says i will continue to do so. I dont tell him what to put in his tank and he doesnt tell me what to put in mine. I would tell him to put whatever he wants in there, I always bring up quarantine and disease just to let him know but it is his decision. I also really hate when people personally attack other members just because they live feed and make videos. If you dont want to watch it dont watch it, until they are banned or censored by Zenon they are allowed to be posted. So basically in closing if you want to provide info on why live feedings are bad for your fish that is a great help to everyone, but if you are just gonna attack the person and flame him on what is the point? He will still make the vid, save your time and energy for something more constructive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know why you felt the need to post what you posted, as this is a civil debate about the pro's and con's of feeding live - no one is forcing his opinion on others or pointing fingers here, so I don't understand why you start about "people attacking each other"








This is not a thread about morals and ethics, but about facts surrounding live feedings...


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## Whall Banner (Nov 25, 2004)

I wish I could feed my p more live stuff but due to having kids and a hyper sensitive mrs, it just aint worth the hassle.

Altough I do put the odd feeder in when they go to bed (my may remember my recent post "Stealth Feeding").

I think it's good for a P to have the odd live feeder along with the dead food as this is how I view their behaviour in the wild.

I seen on the tv that a Rhom's main diet is fish fins but then why does it eat the whole feeder?


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

haha this is definitly not a regular day to day fish for a hindu hahhhahaha


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## PuffPiff (May 23, 2005)

this debate is civil, but i posted that because i had to get it off my chest. i apoligize if i offended anyone but i dont think my post was out of line or inflammatory.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

of the members who feed live food. Im wondering what your food bill is a month? A few years back i bought some neons for decoration. I think I spent about 10$ on all them. Got em home, put em in the tank and they looked awesome. Complimented the tank great. I came back at night to feed my p's and all my neons were gone.


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## ITsPennywise (May 26, 2005)

Ex0dus said:


> of the members who feed live food. Im wondering what your food bill is a month? A few years back i bought some neons for decoration. I think I spent about 10$ on all them. Got em home, put em in the tank and they looked awesome. Complimented the tank great. I came back at night to feed my p's and all my neons were gone.
> [snapback]1174245[/snapback]​


This is really the main reason I'm limiting live feedings to maybe once a month...The price is just ridiclous. You can by lbs upon lbs of fish and meat at the supermarkert...for less then it would cost for a few feeders...Its sad.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

and you said you only feed live once a week. I can only imagine what some guys are paying that feed live 2-3x a week. 2-3$ for a lb of frozen shrimp. Cant beat that price.


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> acb said:
> 
> 
> > > It is the equivelant of locking someone in a room with a pig and waiting to see them butcher it. Makes absolutely no sense to me..
> ...


Jonas, if I may quote Ron Burgundy "you are so wise...you're like a furry little budha". Seriously though I agree with what you said.

I have fed my Ps live food and will continue to do so on an occassional basis. I do it because I like to watch my Ps team up and shred something. I like to see that power that they have and I like to see thier hunting instincts in play. I feed live food probably once every 2-3 months purely for the reasons stated above. Otherwise, it's krill, some shrimp, some silversides (they are good because they still have all the guts in them), and maybe some squid.


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## Azeral (Dec 28, 2004)

Genin said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > acb said:
> ...


That's because you're a ninja


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

the only time I would consider using live food is for a species that does not accept alternatives

when using live food for these species the food must be so small that it is consumed instantly.

I would not suggest using live food sources that differ wildely from what the fish would eat in the wild - so no mice/cats/bunnies for piranhas etc...


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## deezdrama (Jul 9, 2005)

i feed both


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## AMAZON DON (Sep 2, 2005)

I AGREE THAT NON-LIVE FEEDING IS PROBABLY HEALTHIER BUT THEIR PIRANAHAS WITH RAZOR SHARP TEETH AND THE INSTINCT TO KILL

PLUS THEY LOVE IT SO LET EM GO AT IT

ALL THOSE WHO RATHER FEED NON LIVE MORE POWER TO YA

AND IF U WANT TO FEED LIVE OFCOURSE U WANT YOUR FISH TO REMAIN HEALTHY AS POSSIBLE SO TAKE EVERY PRECAUSION THERE AFTER TO DO THAT 
QUARANTEENING THE FEEDERS ARE A GREAT IDEA

I KNOW ONE THING, I WILL NEVER FEED MINE GOLDFISH AGAIN


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