# Is this a bad idea?



## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

Hi,
Brief introduction: I'm 26 years old and I have been taking care of cichlid for around 7 years now. I have a healthy 29 gallon cichlid tank, and I am now jumping into my first reef tank.

I have been reading for a few weeks on starting up a saltwater tank. I have a 55 gallon tank with T-5 lighting 4 bulbs (2x54 blue and 2x54 white), a sump system, and protein skimmer. I recently purchased 50lbs of cured "premium" (we will see about that) Fiji live rock. The rock has not arrived yet, but I have read that cycling a new tank is possible and it seemed rather easy. I have read so many "how to's" on saltwater that all contradict each other.

Currently I have my tank set up (water, filter, lighting, aragonite etc.) and running. My plan was to set the rock up and let my tank cycle. Am I supposed to do any water changes? Will my live rock completely die off? If it does die off from an ammonia spike, is there a way to re seed the rock? I have so many questions to ask, and do not want to pack them into one thread.

Now the kicker...
I just found out yesterday, that I will be moving in June. I originally planned on putting fish and coral into my tank, but now that I am moving I am not sure if that is a good idea. If I do not put anything into the tank (besides the LR) would it be easier to transport the water and set the tank up as it was originally, or start fresh in a few months and re cycle the entire system?

Please, I could really use some help on this. I had no idea how expensive this would be. Thank-you


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

if you're moving in two months then dont bother setting it up yet. if anything, just get all the equipment ready so that you can set it up with ease once you move. moving a reef is not an easy task.

im moving next year at some point, but im still thinking of setting up my new tank. i have the advantage of being able to move things slowly instead of all at once (keep some stuff at my parents house that ive been "house sitting", then slowly switch over livestock.

oh yeah, welcome to the reef community!!


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

if the rock is already on the way then set it up and let the rock cycle/cure. better then letting it dry out and actually die..

adding fish or coral will make th move much harder..

yes you will need to do some water changes after the cycle to bring down the nitrates, lets say you do set it up and cycle/cure the rock, even though you dont have live stock if you allow the nitrates and phosphates build up it can be absorbed by the rock and later leach out fo the rock and cause problems.

moving time comes around if you have no live stock it would just be a matter of moving a portion of the water and keeping the rock somewhat wet for the move, even if you dont get it right back up and running right away if you can keep the rock wet and room temp is will only need a little cycle if any. but either way if you transport a thrid of the water from teh tnak to re set it up it should run for a few weeks before adding stock..

if you couldnt wait and bought live stock then you need to move as much water as possible and set i up in a short time, marine life needs lot of water movement and oxygenation of the water. so its not a good idea to have stuf sittin in a bucket of stagnant water for too long.

a good option for a move with live stock is to have a smaller tank to set up with as much water as you can move and some basic filtration as a temp home until the larger tank can be fully set up and stabilized,.


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

So I have been cycling my tank for about a week now. My Ammonia level is 8.0, Nitrite is 5.0, Nitrate is at 40 and my PH is at about 7.9. Is this normal for a saltwater tank? I have 55lbs of live rock in a 55 gallon tank. When I received the rock, it had nice purple and green colors on it. Now all of the rocks have turned pale white and I am starting to get a red coloring on them. My water seems to be turning green. I am currently using a mechanical filter for a 70 gallon tank. My sump pump still has not arrived and I had no other filter choice. I do not have a protein skimmer/powerhead yet either, as they are coming with the pump.

Is this normal? Should I do a water change? it just seems strange that all of my levels have peaked out like that, I do not remember that happening when I cycled a cichlid tank. Anybody that can help... thanks!


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Tonynlo said:


> So I have been cycling my tank for about a week now. My Ammonia level is 8.0, Nitrite is 5.0, Nitrate is at 40 and my PH is at about 7.9. Is this normal for a saltwater tank? I have 55lbs of live rock in a 55 gallon tank. When I received the rock, it had nice purple and green colors on it. Now all of the rocks have turned pale white and I am starting to get a red coloring on them. My water seems to be turning green. I am currently using a mechanical filter for a 70 gallon tank. My sump pump still has not arrived and I had no other filter choice. I do not have a protein skimmer/powerhead yet either, as they are coming with the pump.
> 
> Is this normal? Should I do a water change? it just seems strange that all of my levels have peaked out like that, I do not remember that happening when I cycled a cichlid tank. Anybody that can help... thanks!


do a water change

are you getting and surface agitation

i would say the rock had a decent amoiunt of die off nothing wrong or abnormal about that, PH seem slightly low but when did you test, light effects ph, its normal for it to drop after dark so its better to test atleast half hour or more after the lights have been on

at this point trying to make adjustments to boost the ph isnt really necessary, youll be doing a few water changes and that should keep the buffers up.

are you using ta water?


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

I do have surface aggitation from the filter. The water from the filter drops around 2 inches before it breaks the surface of the water. I am using tap water, and I had read in the sticky that it causes a red slime. I guess it did not throw any flags when I had read it for some reason. Any suggestions on an entry level RO system?

Also, is there a database of some sort that can tell me what types of livestock will work in a 55 gallon tank? I really like tangs but I don't think my tank is large enough. When I purchased my lighting system, the guy at my fish store told me that t-5 lighting is good enough for most coral. I have now read that this is not true and am now stuck with my lighting system.

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions, hopefully I'll be able to figure this stuff out on my own soon. Just a bit overwhelming at the moment.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Tonynlo said:


> I do have surface aggitation from the filter. The water from the filter drops around 2 inches before it breaks the surface of the water. I am using tap water, and I had read in the sticky that it causes a red slime. I guess it did not throw any flags when I had read it for some reason. Any suggestions on an entry level RO system?
> 
> Also, is there a database of some sort that can tell me what types of livestock will work in a 55 gallon tank? I really like tangs but I don't think my tank is large enough. When I purchased my lighting system, the guy at my fish store told me that t-5 lighting is good enough for most coral. I have now read that this is not true and am now stuck with my lighting system.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions, hopefully I'll be able to figure this stuff out on my own soon. Just a bit overwhelming at the moment.


where did you read that t-5 would llimit your corals? that completely untrue that lighting is very good for a 55, granted you may not be able to keep sps on the sand but you could ahve pretty much anyting you wanted..

i would say no tang..

best thing to do is look at forums for other people 55's and get an idea of how they are set up then look for stuff you lmight like and read as much as possible before buying.. you still have time to research before you start stocking the tank.

ame for RO research and dont buy a coralife or kent name brand they are way over priced, your best units are on line vendors like 
spectrpura (the best most expensive)
then 
fire water ice
the filter guys
buck eye field supply 
all offer similar systems at all price levels the will perform, if your going to spend the money for ro spend the estra 30 - 50 bucks and get the DI stage your tank will love you. keep in mind that in the long run you dont save money with fewer stages because you will get shorter membrane life and spend more replacing them sooner then if you just get the four or five stage. this is not a cheap hobby to do it right..


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

also look in to Aquasafe RO/DI units. very cheap and VERY good quality. most people in my area use them (reefers that is).

did you scrub your rock and rinse it before going in to your tank?

you should always give new live rock a good scrub before adding it to the tank. make sure you get any dead sponges and other junk off of the rock so it doesnt foul your water.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

to scrub or not to scrub that is the question..

i dont really like to scrub becuase you could damage or remove something that you might want to give a chance to live through the curing cycling. so would only advise scrubbing if you can identify what your trying to remove. either way if the rock is uncured its going to cycle/cure and foul the water of course unscrubbed might make it worse but you can correct that with a few additional water changes.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

well with mine i had some nasty ass dead sponges on the rock. they were disgusting and stank to high heaven. i didnt scrub at first, then the water smelled horrible. so i took everyhting out and scrubbed them off a bit (not too hard). i just concentrated my efforts on the dead sponges and simply rinsed everything else off. worked like a charm









im sure if i hadnt scrubbed that nasty sh*t off that i would have had a much longer cycle!


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

So after doing a water change, my ammonia level dropped to 0. Nitrites and nitrates are still maxed out. I did about a 15% change. My sump setup recently arrived and I set it up. I ran both the sump/refugium and mechanical filter for 24 hrs before I removed the mechanical filter. I have never changed filtration during a cycle before, so I am curious if it was a bad idea to pull the mechanical filter from the setup.

P.S. The water from the overflow setup is so loud, is there some way to silence it?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Tonynlo said:


> So after doing a water change, my ammonia level dropped to 0. Nitrites and nitrates are still maxed out. I did about a 15% change. My sump setup recently arrived and I set it up. I ran both the sump/refugium and mechanical filter for 24 hrs before I removed the mechanical filter. I have never changed filtration during a cycle before, so I am curious if it was a bad idea to pull the mechanical filter from the setup.
> 
> P.S. The water from the overflow setup is so loud, is there some way to silence it?


is it an over flow box or built in over flow?


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

It is an overflow box


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

So I quieted my overflow box by bending the sponge over the top of the drain instead of placing it on top of it, it is nearly a completely silent system now.

Now for the update on my, interesting to say the least, cycle. I had done a water change as suggested by Nismo and it worked worked wonderfly for the ammonia. Now my nitrites and nitrates were through the roof. I went to my LFS and the owner suggested I do another water change, he said a 50% should be sufficient. 4 days later I still have very high nitrites and nitrates.

I am a little confused as to when my cycle will be finished. I have read books and internet media and they all say that once I have nitrates, my cycle should be complete, but I have a feeling this is not the case. Should I do another water change?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Tonynlo said:


> So I quieted my overflow box by bending the sponge over the top of the drain instead of placing it on top of it, it is nearly a completely silent system now.
> 
> Now for the update on my, interesting to say the least, cycle. I had done a water change as suggested by Nismo and it worked worked wonderfly for the ammonia. Now my nitrites and nitrates were through the roof. I went to my LFS and the owner suggested I do another water change, he said a 50% should be sufficient. 4 days later I still have very high nitrites and nitrates.
> 
> I am a little confused as to when my cycle will be finished. I have read books and internet media and they all say that once I have nitrates, my cycle should be complete, but I have a feeling this is not the case. Should I do another water change?


 word of caution with the filter sponge on theoverlfow box, check it frequently, this is a very easy way to get a floow if it is clogged from overfeeding or excess junk from the tank. if you can fit it you would be better off putting a "durso" to quite it and not running a prefilter.

durso would be made out of a pvc "T" and a 90 degree elbow and a pvc cap. the tee would go onto the drain with the "T" verticle with the cap on the top with a smal hole drilled in it, on the side would be the elbow facing down. just search "druso" online and you should b able to find a picture and explination.

that is correct.. the "cycle" is the growth of denitrifying bacteria. amonia becomes present in a new tank then bacteria grows and consumes the amonia nad turns it into nitrites and additional bacteria turns it into nitrates. these are all waste by products but ultimately the nitrates are less toxic to aquatic life then nitrites or amonia.

once you start testing high levels of nitrates and not amonia or nitrites then the tank has established a basic level of biological filtration, its not necessarily mature but it fish should be able to survive in it. the LFS guy was correct to do water changes.. 50 percent is kind of alot and can cause instability that may take longer for the tank to return to stable balanced levels but if theres nothing int eh tank it doesnt matter.. once the tank is stock you shouldnt realyl do more then a 20 percent change. when doing water changes in a stocked tank thewater should be mixed and allowed to "age" for atleast 24 hours before doing the water change. if you dont want problems only use RO/DI or at minimum RO water. the vast majority of new reefs problems come from using tap water if they arent using good filtered water.


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

I'll be the first to admit that I am more of a lurker than a poster. It's been about 3 years since I have posted anything. I figured I would update my very first post to show some of my progress over the years.

It all started off with this thread. I bought a 55 gallon aquarium because my cichlids had gotten a little big for my 29. While at the LFS, my girlfriend walked into the saltwater section and fell in love with yellow tangs and clownfish. After a little poking, she finally convinced me to drop the cichlid and start a saltwater tank. Which is when I found pirahna-fury.

I quickly realized that a 55 gallon tank is not the best setup for a reef tank. After about 2 months I dumped the 55 gallon tank and picked up a 90. Here are a few different stacks.





































I had the 90 running successfully for about 2 and a half years and had some amazing coral growth. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of them as small frags.





































About a month ago I decided that I wanted to go a different route with my tank. So I went out and picked this up. You can see the old 90 in the background.










The path I was taking needed a little customization, so I had Joe Cool the carpenter to give me a hand.

Here he is getting putting the stand together.









Even though the stand wasn't complete, I wanted to see what it looked like with the tank on it. By now, you might have some idea on the direction I was headed with the new tank.










Checking to make sure it would look nice with the couch.










A little drywall and mudding.



















A few shims.










A little framing around the tank and we have a happy baby!










Stacking rock at 4AM is not a fun job.









left stack









Right stack









I use two vortech MP40Ws and while measuring my wall cutout, I forgot to include them in my final measurement. So what do we get?

Bathroom viewable aquarium.










Sump room under construction.










Finally, we have our view from the couch. 









I hope you enjoyed my photo journey as much as I have enjoyed reading about everyone elses aquariums.


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## shiver905 (May 27, 2009)

Looking great man!
I love how every reefer starts out with the minimum 200$ SW tank
and slowly goes to a full blown reef!! With thousands invested!!

Keep us updated!.


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## Tonynlo (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks. I can't believe it's already been 3 years! I have to say that my favorite part about having an in-wall aquarium is the fish room you get behind it. It's so nice not having to crouch down and wiggle beneath a stand to clean the skimmer cup and filter socks. It't a ton of work trying to get everything to look neat. I catch grief for it daily because the room doubles as a laundry room.

Things on my to do list:

Barlett's Anthas harem 1+3
Moonlights
larger clean-up crew
Larger Sump (currently 30L)
Background

Coral:
Strawberry Shortcake
Seasons Greating Monti
Acans
Chalices

to be continued...


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2011)

Thank you for the motivation to start my own reef tank. I've been thinking about a nano, but now, I want to go big lol.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

haha what a thread









thank you for updating. your reef is looking great. nice work man.

and your baby looks adorable









look forward to seeing the setup mature


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