# I have a 75 Gallong Tank and Need Equipment suggestions (High Budget)



## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Hey guys,

This project has been a long time coming for me. I have been saving for a while and can finally make this happen. Would really appreciate some of your guy's expertise when it comes to setting up a top notch tank.

My Goals are:
1) High-end (Best Equipment and Equipment that can be hidden from sight)
2) low maintenance (Don't want to be tinkering a lot)
3) lightly planted Tank (Some grass and couple hardy bushes in a corner)
4) Pygos (7 Caribe)

*This is what I have so far:*

*Tank:* 75G Tank (Long/Tall)

*Stand:* Cabinet stand

*Gravel:* Medium size gravel (1inch)

*Substrate*: Eco-Complete substrate (60 pounds)

*Lighting:* 48inch, 4 lamp fixture, 4-65 watt 6700k

*CO2:* Red Sea CO2 Bio System

*What do you suggest ? HIGH BUDGET*

*Filter:* Eheim Canister Filter ? Is this the Best ? What type and Size ?

*Filter output Camouflage:* I want to hide this. Is there a way to put the output under the substrate so it disperses or is this unnecessary ?

*Heating: *Which one heats the best and is most reliable, less hassle? Inline or Substrate Heaters ?

*Powerhead:* Good Idea with a planted Tank ? What Power ?

*Sand: *I want to cover my substrate with find Sand for looks. Is this a good idea or will it be a nuisance to clean ?

Thanks for any input you can provide. Please keep in mind my goals. Very excited about joining this community finally


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Use a sump filter because you can hide heaters and crap in that out of sight. Plus it will give you a little extra water for the overstocked tank. I would have the tank drilled right away to....So you don't have overflows hanging on the top of the tank. If i had my tank to do again thats what i would do, for sure.

I'm guessing most guys here ,including me, would recommend jager heaters. There's a calculator somewhere on this site to give you an idea of how many watts you need. I haven't had mine long but they keep the temp within a degree or two.

I have rocks and sand mixed in one of my tanks, and i dont like it. any rock smaller than 2 or 3 inches will get buried anyways.

I would guess the output from your filter would make plenty of current so you wouldn't need a power head?!?!? Not sure there. I can't think of any way to hide a power head anyways.

thats all i got. hope it helped!!


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

High end for me was a Rena XP4. Not exactly a bank breaker but it does the job with minimum clutter in the tank (inlet and outlet tube). I have mine filled with Rena's brand of sponges, bio media and water polisher pads and it keeps my water crystal and handles the bioload of 6 Reds and a Pleco with no problems (120 gallon). Easy to clean and maintain too.
Hydor Koralia's are really nice powerheads. They look cool, they're almost silent, and they make a nice broad current in the tank. 
7 Caribe is way too many for a 75. I'd do 4 at most (that's pushing it). If you want minimum maintenance then you definitely don't want to overstock.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

ShoalNotShark said:


> High end for me was a Rena XP4. Not exactly a bank breaker but it does the job with minimum clutter in the tank (inlet and outlet tube). I have mine filled with Rena's brand of sponges, bio media and water polisher pads and it keeps my water crystal and handles the bioload of 6 Reds and a Pleco with no problems (120 gallon). Easy to clean and maintain too.


Is this a canister filter and is it better make/design than Eheim ? I want something I can hide in my cabinet. Thanks


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I didn't read this whole thread, but Lemme chime in for a sec.

If you are going high light/CO2, don't go with a wet/dry or a sump filter unless you have 2 CO2 cylanders handy. 
CO2 is unstable in water, and leaves any chance it gets, just like pouring Pepsi in a glass too many times.
I'm just saying those filters waste lots of CO2. I go with canister filters for planted tanks. Much less 'splashing', making the CO2 stay in the water much longer.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

I didn't know about the CO2 thing. sry zbaidy. forget the sump wet/dry thing!

over flows are what syphen the water to the sump.
heres a link clicky

and heres an explanation on how they work clicky

but you dont need um. cant use the sump filter on a planted tank. sry again still kind of a newb myself


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Is a Wet/Dry canister Filter like this what you are talking about: http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/in...tail_27563_ehen

If so, what is the best make or model ?

I will go with the Pressurized CO2 as per your suggestion and 48inch, 2 lamp fixture, 4-65 watt 6700k for lighting.

Is maintenance about how much light, nutriance and CO2 you give your plants or does it depend more on what type plants you choose to plant. As in are there any plants that don't go out of control no matter how much nutrience you give them = they stay a certain size and never get any bigger ? If they exist I think those plants would be the one I would want to get. Because then I would have to worry as much about constantly having to prune and put my vulnerable fingers in the tank


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

zbaidy said:


> Is a Wet/Dry canister Filter like this what you are talking about: http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/in...tail_27563_ehen


Nope. I was talkin one like this

But Like dippy said. you can't use it and i see why now.

I know nothing about the CO2 systems or the plants. Someone will come around that does sooner or later


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I know a guy who has a 120 planted, and he uses a wet/dry.. I mean a sump.

He is fine with it, he just gets one of his 2 5lb cylanders filled every month. It's cool as long as you know you will be going through the CO2.

I wouldn't go with a filter like that unless I was going with a very large tank. On my 75g, I have an XP2 and an XP3 running, and it's doing really well for me.



> I will go with the Pressurized CO2 as per your suggestion and 48inch, 2 lamp fixture, 4-65 watt 6700k for lighting.
> 
> Is maintenance about how much light, nutriance and CO2 you give your plants or does it depend more on what type plants you choose to plant. As in are there any plants that don't go out of control no matter how much nutrience you give them = they stay a certain size and never get any bigger ? If they exist I think those plants would be the one I would want to get. Because then I would have to worry as much about constantly having to prune and put my vulnerable fingers in the tank


If you use 2 of your 4 bulbs, and have CO2, your tank should do great dosing 1ce a week. I would dose nitrate (only if you need it--10-25ppm at all times)
Phosphate if you need to (.5-2ppm at all times)
Flourish comprehensive and F. iron. I dose potassium on top of all that. Just a FYI.

Yes, plants grow much faster with high light, CO2, and ferts, but it really does keep your plants looking great most of the time.
I think lower light is sometimes better though, because the tank doesn't need trimmed as much and would look good longer. The only downfall is you can't grow some spiecies of plant well (or fast), and if you can grow some high light plants in there, the colors aren't as bright. But I don'/t care about that anymore lol

I've found that you can grow most high light plants pretty good in a medium light tank. So why not just be a bit more patient with the tank and go medium light.

wow what a ramble lol


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## ELREYDENJ83 (Jun 25, 2008)

if you are going high end and money is no objective then why not do it right and get atleast a 180 gallon tank???? the impression i got from the thread is that you have a high budget, so invest in a large tank you will not regret it.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

ELREYDENJ83 said:


> if you are going high end and money is no objective then why not do it right and get atleast a 180 gallon tank???? the impression i got from the thread is that you have a high budget, so invest in a large tank you will not regret it.


I wish. My apartment's landlord won't allow it. I'm pushing it as it is with the 75 LOL.

One goal I have right now is to make it count.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> If you use 2 of your 4 bulbs, and have CO2, your tank should do great dosing 1ce a week. I would dose nitrate (only *if you need it*--10-25ppm at all times)
> Phosphate *if you need to* (.5-2ppm at all times)
> Flourish comprehensive and F. iron. I dose potassium on top of all that. Just a FYI.


1) How do you know if you need to ???? Is there no way of putting those elemetns in the soil from the get go so you don't have continually dose down the line. Or is this unrealistic ?

2) Also how do you learn how to trim plants ??? Is there a website or video that demonstrates how ??

More importantly how do you trim plants with Caribe in the water


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## D.D.Denham (Aug 13, 2007)

Here's some piranha math...7 caribe + 75 gallon aquarium =








Do you seriously think you'll be able to manage 7, even 5" 'ers?...these guys get big, thick and are the most territorial piranha I have ever kept. Expect lots of tattered fins, missing scales and general chaos once they try to establish their territories. Your best bet is to go with a beautiful aquascaped tank and buy one massive caribe (min. 10") as a show piece. Filter with a Rena Xp4, with the filter inlet attached to a Rena SmartHeater (it's all black), paint the background black - the heater will virtually disappear against it, buy CaribSea Rio Grande (or Peace River) for substrate. Use Hydor cable heating for the substrate bed, Co2 injection, VHO output fluorescent (depending on the plants you are planning to keep). Your aquarium would be in balance between the bio-load of the fish, the output of the filter, the need for Co2 to be kept in a dissolved state as long as possible for max. plant growth...if you get dense enough growth you could throw in some small tetra's that jumbo (the caribe) wouldn't be able to catch...then you'd have a mixed shoal!


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

carbee said:


> with the filter inlet attached to a Rena SmartHeater (it's all black). Use Hydor cable heating for the substrate bed.


2 Heaters ? A submersible plus a cable ? Why is that necessary ? Is Hydor the best make ? Thanks for all the info


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

I feel a bit confused. From one side I hear the more flow in your tank the better. Get the biggest mechanical filter you can.

On the other side I hear, you don't want to disturb the water too much because CO2 is unstable and will not reach the plants.

So the higher the flow rate = the more CO2 you need ? Is this right ?

Is there a calculation for this ? for instance the XP4 has a Flow Rate of 450 gph. Water flow (with media and tubing) is 190 gph

How much CO2 would you need to balance this out ?

If I am way off please let me know. Sorry for the extreme newbery


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

I wouldn't think you would need 2 heaters unless your keeping the tank in you garage in boston over the winter. even then you should be fine with the 200 or 300 watt rena.

Is a heater in the substrate supposed to be good for plants?

The XP4 is not a wet/dry. But it should be plenty anyways, IMO

You have Bio and wet/dry all mixed around. Bio filtration is any filtration with the amonia eating bacteria present in large quantities. I say large quantities because its pretty much everywhere in the tank in smaller quantities, but thats beyond the scope of what you need to know for a succesful aquarium. Wet/dry is a specialized category of bio filtration that is not nessesary because a canister filter is very good at bio filtration anyways. Wet/dry is kind of explained here......clicky

And whats with dubai in the from: category under your name?


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

ShoalNotShark said:


> And whats with dubai in the from: category under your name?


I grew up in Dubai and my family lives there. Why ?


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

JW bout the dubai thing. Neat place!

And yes a canister is a mech and bio filter, both in one.

So is a wet/dry. They do exactly the same jobs.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

ShoalNotShark said:


> JW bout the dubai thing. Neat place!
> 
> And yes a canister is a mech and bio filter, both in one.
> 
> So is a wet/dry. They do exactly the same jobs.


Yes, its an interesting place. Thanks !

So if Wet/dry and canister do exactly the same job, then why is the Canister more suitable for planted tanks and the Wet/dry not ?

Thats what I understand from our conversation here on the thread.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

The wet/dry is bad just because it exposes the CO2 in the water to regular air to much, and CO2 is easily lost when exposed to air. After all, like dippy eggs said CO2 is what makes soft drinks carbonated. If you slosh a pepsi around to much, causing it to get exposed to air, it loses its carbonation and goes flat.

The following places the CO2 rich water is exposed to air.

1) In the overflow boxes its sloshed around alot

2) after the overflows its dropped on a mech filter

3) Then possibly the worst part is when its dropped through the bio section.
The bio section is completely exposed to the air on a wet dry
The water just drips or trickles through it. << that's why there sometimes called a trickle filter

A regular canister doesn't have any of these areas for the CO2 to be lost at. Canisters have no overflows because there a closed loop system. The air can't be lost in the mech and bio portions because they are also in a sealed container completely covered in water.

That clear it up?


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

ShoalNotShark said:


> The wet/dry is bad just because it exposes the CO2 in the water to regular air to much, and CO2 is easily lost when exposed to air. After all, like dippy eggs said CO2 is what makes soft drinks carbonated. If you slosh a pepsi around to much, causing it to get exposed to air, it loses its carbonation and goes flat.
> 
> The following places the CO2 rich water is exposed to air.
> 
> ...


Wow, yeah PERFECTLY. finally now i understand what everyone is talking about. Thanks ShoalNotShark


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

no problem

enjoy your tank


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Jager heater for sure, 200-250w is plenty... On my 75g I have 2 emperor 400s and xp3.. Since your tank will be overstocked I would consider filtering 15+ gph..


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Malawi- said:


> Jager heater for sure, 200-250w is plenty... On my 75g I have 2 emperor 400s and xp3.. Since your tank will be overstocked I would consider filtering 15+ gph..


What do you mean by filtering 15+ gph... ?

The XP4 has a rating of 450gph....please enlighten me


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

I would love to enlighten you. What I mean is your filters should turn over 10-15 times the amount of water.. Example: If you have a 100g tank, your filters should turn over 1,000-1,500gph. Does that make sense? This is my general rule, 10 being the minimum, and there is no max, as over filtering only helps.

So the XP4 filters 450gph, which is not 10 turn overs of 75.. What filters do you have right now? Or what were you planning on buying?


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

He was talking about 15x and much water as your tank holds. so 75x15=1100g total.

Its an antiquated rule of thumb. It mainly sucks because it doesn't figure in how much bio media that much turnover has.

For example, if you have three ac110 hobs they turn over 1500gph all together but there bio capacity sucks. On the other hand you have your canister that has huge biomedia capacity but its turnover isnt great.

I still vote you have plenty of filter. Start with what you have. If your water doesn't stay crystal clear or your ammonia comes off 0ppm then add to it, but im pretty sure you wont have to.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Malawi- said:


> For example, if you have three ac110 hobs they turn over 1500gph all together but there bio capacity sucks. On the other hand you have your canister that has huge biomedia capacity but its turnover isnt great.
> 
> I still vote you have plenty of filter. Start with what you have. If your water doesn't stay crystal clear or your ammonia comes off 0ppm then add to it, but im pretty sure you wont have to.


Got it, so what you're saying is that you have to find the right balance of mech and bio media for your tank.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes you want a balance of type of filtration! All mechanical filtation turning over 1,500 gph is not as good as a mechanical and a biological. On my tanks, I use canister filters along HOB filters. Canister filters can hold much more media and turns over slower but I believe are better than power filters. I think 1 xp4 is not enough.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

afdsfasfsfsafs


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Theres no perfect balance. you just need to have more than enough bio to keep up with the ammonia. which i believe you do.

I also think your mech is plenty, but i guess everyone has there opinions.

Dont get me wrong. If you want to get more filter, then do it. It wont hurt a thing. I just think you have enough.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Dont get what all those quotes are for. But I hope you understand more about filtration..


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Dont get what all those quotes are for. But I hope you understand more about filtration..


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Dont get what all those quotes are for. But I hope you understand more about filtration..


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Sry me and malawi are confusing you a bit with are arguements.

I just think it would be wise to see if this filter is enough before you spend a bunch more on filters and clutter up your tank with unneeded things.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Dont get what all those quotes are for. But I hope you understand more about filtration..


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Dont get what all those quotes are for. But I hope you understand more about filtration..


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Dont get what all those quotes are for. But I hope you understand more about filtration..


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Whoa, sorry about all the post, my comp is being slow and weird.. Not an arguement, just different opinions of how to approach this topic... Yes bio media is important, but I personally overfilter all my tanks. You dont have to, I just suggest it.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok were kind of saying the same thing about the bio media mech ballance thing.

the two things you need are enough bio media to easily hold all of the benificial bacteria used to process the ammonia and nitrites in to nitrates. The nitrates are then removed with water changes.

You also need enough mech to catch all the loose debris floating around in your tank.



Malawi- said:


> Whoa, sorry about all the post, my comp is being slow and weird.. Not an arguement, just different opinions of how to approach this topic... Yes bio media is important, but I personally overfilter all my tanks. You dont have to, I just suggest it.


Agreed

Not arguing either. I'm just saying the xp4 will be plenty of bio. He might be a bit weak on mech but that can always be added later with little trouble and the fish will never have to put up with amonia or nitrites.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

We are saying similar stuff, I just use alot of filtration and media.







The bio media in a canister beats a HOB but I believe they both work well together.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Did we lose you zbaidy? Sry if we did. We had kind of a heated discussion there


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

lol, I see him in the thread. Sorr about that, just two enthusiast discussing a common topic. Im getting lost in both these threads, but what did you order and for what size tank? lol. Right, 75g...


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

huh wonder where he went.

He has an XP4 and a 75g


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

lol, I have no idea, hehe..

So thats 450 gph on a 75.. He said he cant get a HOB right? He should do 2 xp4 then...

on my 75g I have 2 emperor 400s and 1 xp3.. Does great.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Well, the thing is guys, I can't really filter more even if I wanted. I have two cabinets - one for my xp4 and the other reserved for pressurized CO2.

What I have so far for this tank......

_75G Planted Pygo Tank (Over Stocked)_

Tank Dimensions (75 Gallons)
Height: 1ft, 9inches (21 inches)
Width: 4ft across (48inches)
Depth: 1ft, 6 inches (18 inches)

*Lighting:* 48inch, 4 lamp fixture, 4-65 watt 6700k (2 plugs) (*Arrived*)

*Substrate:* 60lbs Eco-Complete, 60lbs Black Tahitian Moon Sand (Eco-complete for the back and sides, black sand for the middle front) (*Arrived*)

*Filtration:* Rena XP4 with 1 Ltr. of ceramic rings media to replace factory Bio Zorb (Ordered)

*CO2:* Pressurized (*To be ordered*)

*Heating:* Rena Smartheater / Digital Thermostat (*Ordered*)

*
Plant Placement:* plants and grass on the back and sides

*Fish: * 7 baby Caribe. Goals is to eventually have 4 Adult Caribe in the tank.

This is my Inspiration......


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Well if thats all you have for filtration, I would pack it full of good media, and do great job on water changes, once a week, and maybe more as they grow.. So your getting 7 caribe, and plan to have 4? What are you doing with the other 3? Hoping they die, or sale them? You have good stuff so far..


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

I think your pretty much set!

You have glass covers for the tank?


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Thats gonna look great, be sure to post pics and updates on it, or PM updates.. Where you get the caribe from?


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Malawi- said:


> So your getting 7 caribe, and plan to have 4? What are you doing with the other 3? Hoping they die, or sale them? You have good stuff so far..


This is my first time keeping fish. I figure that I will probably loose some along the way (if not all LOL)
If too many do survive I'm sure some guys on here wouldn't mind taking them off my hands 
The way i'm thinking about it, its better to start out with more than less. introducing new tank partners later has its risks from what I understand.

If water quality does become a concern, I will probably get the extra XP4 just deal with the eye sore outside my stand. Not ideal tho.


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Thats good to hear. Glad to see your getting to know things and learn about the hobby. I think your media is fine, you will just need to do water changes weekly. If you can get the caribe at lfs then do so, if not then online. I ordered from aquascape almost 2 weeks ago, I was very satisfied, and im in Oregon.


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

When the fish get bigger i would maybe try ditching the micro filtration pad in favor of some more bio media if its possible. I don't run the micro pads in my canisters. They really cut down on flow fast and don't seem to make a difference in appearance of the water.

Watch out with the ph +/- stuff. I've never personally dealt with it, but a lot of people on here just recommend leaving your ph where its at and stable as opposed to using the ph +/- and risking it bouncing around. My south and central American cichlids did fine at 8.2 ph back home and there doing fine at the 6.5 here. so i dont think it matters that much.

Other than that i think your set. I can't wait to see pix of the tank!


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Ya I leave my pH alone... Only my Africans I add good buffers from the actual lake to increase the pH. Piranhas are very hardy and can handle in most cases the pH in your tank.. I too look forward to seeing pics.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Thanks guys for all the information and advice. I definitely know I would have made a whole lot of mistakes on this project setup if it wasn't for you insights. I will def. take pics at every stage of this project and post pics for everyone to enjoy.

Will keep you guys in the loop once everything arrives ;-)


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## Plowboy (Apr 9, 2008)

Glad to help!


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## Malawi- (Oct 21, 2008)

Sounds great, PM me anytime with questions.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

zbaidy said:


> XP4 comes with the following filter media:
> 
> 2 layers of Coarse and Fine Foam Filtration Pads (for Particle collection)
> 
> ...


In my XP4 I have (in order from top to bottom)
Bottom Basket
(2) 30ppm sponges
(2) 20ppm sponges
(These are the sponges that come with the filter.)
Middle Two Baskets:
Rena Ceramic Rings (this addes up to 4 boxes of the rings which is a bit expensive but it works)
Top Basket:
Rena Microfiltration Pads (about 5 or 6 I just pack the whole basket full of them).

This should be all you need to take care of your tanks filtration. As I said before, this is the only filter I run on my 120 and it handles the bioload of (6) 6"-7" RBP's and an 8" Pleco with no problems. Once a month I take it apart, clean the sponges and replace the microfilter pads.
I really don't understand why people think they need 10X turnover for good water quality. The filter setup above generates roughtly 150gph according to the box the filter came in, and I've never had a problem with water quality.


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## zbaidy (Dec 23, 2005)

Piranha Dan said:


> Top Basket:
> Rena Microfiltration Pads (about 5 or 6 I just pack the whole basket full of them).


What does the XP4 come with in the top Basket ? Does the 6 Rena Microfiltration pads you mentioned replace the factory media ?

You're setup sounds very close to what I am setting up in terms of bio load. interesting....


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

I think it's one Liter per box, but I'm not sure. I do know that each one of these:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/199656/product.web
Fills half a basket, so to completely fill the middle two baskets you'll need 4 boxes/packs/whatever.
Also, don't use the little plastic dividers or all the media won't fit.

As far as the microfilter pads go (these):
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/199554/product.web
I think the filter comes with one or two of them, but I like to just fill the entire top basket with them for added mechanical filtration. Keeps the water crystal clear.

By the way, that "Zorb" stuff is just a mix of activated charcol and that ammonia removing resin stuff. Keep it around in case you need to remove meds from your water at some point but for now just set it aside.


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