# Serrasalmus Sanchezi And Pygocentrus Natterreri Cohab



## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

I want to do a sanchezi pygo cohab theyr all small and going to be in a 55gl tank with 1 cascade700 canister filter and emperror penguin 250 i believe.

Any opinion accepted


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

What size Natts?


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

BiGgest being 3.5"


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Do you have backup tanks available for them if it fails?


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yes ihave a 20gl long for the sanchez


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

Well you could try it, and separate if aggression becomes too much.






[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayfi8MIu4xY


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

IMO not the smartest idea. I'm not going to say it's impossible, because I'm sure your going to have 2 pages of that after me, but I'm thinking your tank won't be big enough. Yr probably going to get the fish at like 3-4 inches maybe a little bigger? That's kinda cramped in a 55, if you overstock like people normally do with pygos, the sanchezi is going to go crazy fin nipping and the pygos arent going to have enough places to hide. The other option is to be a little mor liberal with how much space you let them have and the pygos will set up territories.

Pygos also get way bigger and grow way faster then serras do. In about a year a pygo grows larger then the sanchezi will in it's life.

Possible to have this work but unlikely. if I were you, I would look for as small as possible and no more than 1 or 2 reds with as many hides as you can fit in the tank, hopefully they just won't see each other that much. Feed like crazy and keep the temp low. Reds in my experience are less territorial and cheap enough to not really worry about a loss.

If you do this, good luck man, and keep us updated either way. Pushing the barriers is something that gets ripped apart on a daily basis on these boards, but thinking like this is the best way to enjoy it.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

Interesting how so many people are trying 'cohabs' right now.

I wonder why.


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

I've been thinking about this same cohab since I have both on hand right now and I'm going to switch my reds into a 75 when I get done with the build and setup. I'm just afraid the sanchezi will get killed, and even if it doesn't immediately his growth rate just can't keep up. Remember this isnt a long term cohab opportunity, so even if it works the days are numbered


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

TheSpaz13 said:


> IMO not the smartest idea. I'm not going to say it's impossible, because I'm sure your going to have 2 pages of that after me, but I'm thinking your tank won't be big enough. Yr probably going to get the fish at like 3-4 inches maybe a little bigger? That's kinda cramped in a 55, if you overstock like people normally do with pygos, the sanchezi is going to go crazy fin nipping and the pygos arent going to have enough places to hide. The other option is to be a little mor liberal with how much space you let them have and the pygos will set up territories.
> 
> Pygos also get way bigger and grow way faster then serras do. In about a year a pygo grows larger then the sanchezi will in it's life.
> 
> ...


Yes i just started the cohab, everyones doing good so far, but my sanchez is a puss... Do you think pygo skitiness will influence him to be like that too?


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

It depends on the individual as to how skittish he is. I'd say he probably going to grow a pair as long as he's the same size as the reds. As soon as he realizes he has the upper hand I think he's going to run the tank

If I were you, I'd make it a late night in front of the tank. You probably should have waited until you have a day or two to keep an eye on them to make sure you can break up any fights


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Hes already showing aggression towards the reds he has claim a spot in the tank aswell


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

How many reds?


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

6 small reds, he gets aggressive only when they get too close


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

Yikes, that's a lot, I'm going to be really impressed if you don't have losses tonight. I do want to see this work though


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

Yea, you just don't have the setup for it man...if it was a bigger tank I think you might have a better shot. It just sucks with Serra cohabs because youll end up needing a ridiculous tank that takes up an unrealistic amount of real estate. Nice try tho


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Is this the same sanchezi that you started a thread about in the disease forum a few days ago? You were worried about the ammonia burn it had suffered during shipping a couple days earlier.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> Yea, you just don't have the setup for it man...if it was a bigger tank I think you might have a better shot. It just sucks with Serra cohabs because youll end up needing a ridiculous tank that takes up an unrealistic amount of real estate. Nice try tho


Yea i just though id try it out ya know, when i do get a bigger setup i wont hesitate to do another pygo/serra cohab


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

piranha-freak101 said:


> Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


Gave up to early.

Nattereri and Sanchezi are often caught together in the wild.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


Gave up to early.

Nattereri and Sanchezi are often caught together in the wild.
[/quote]
He took a bite out of my reds fin... believe me it was to aggressive


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## TheSpaz13 (Apr 9, 2010)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


Gave up to early.

Nattereri and Sanchezi are often caught together in the wild.
[/quote]

Huge difference between the wild and a 55 gal.

You could probably catch a field mouse and a snake together too but it doesn't mean they should live together in cramped quarters


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

piranha-freak101 said:


> Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


Gave up to early.

Nattereri and Sanchezi are often caught together in the wild.
[/quote]
He took a bite out of my reds fin... believe me it was to aggressive
[/quote]

Thats because Sanchezi are parasitic. Thats its job. It knows fins will grow back for another meal and it will keep eating the fins of fish with it.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


Gave up to early.

Nattereri and Sanchezi are often caught together in the wild.
[/quote]
He took a bite out of my reds fin... believe me it was to aggressive
[/quote]

Thats because Sanchezi are parasitic. Thats its job. It knows fins will grow back for another meal and it will keep eating the fins of fish with it.
[/quote]
I know theyr parasitic fin nippers but the were also doing this chasing eachothers tail when a red got too close


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

piranha-freak101 said:


> Yupp im seperating thwm as its the only smart thing to do because of high aggression


Gave up to early.

Nattereri and Sanchezi are often caught together in the wild.
[/quote]
He took a bite out of my reds fin... believe me it was to aggressive
[/quote]

Thats because Sanchezi are parasitic. Thats its job. It knows fins will grow back for another meal and it will keep eating the fins of fish with it.
[/quote]
I know theyr parasitic fin nippers but the were also doing this chasing eachothers tail when a red got too close
[/quote]

Thats expected.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

So what your saying is that i shouldve kept them together longer


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

I think in your situation it is a bad idea from the start, The main reason is the tank is too small IMO. Mayby in a 100g plus but I would't use a 55g. The second reason is sanchezi will pick at the reds and he could potentially cripple them by removing an entire tail if they are similar size and since sanchezis max at 6" while reds can double that eventually he would probably become food as a few 10" reds should be able to take down a sanchezi .


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

CLUSTER ONE said:


> I think in your situation it is a bad idea from the start, The main reason is the tank is too small IMO. Mayby in a 100g plus but I would't use a 55g. The second reason is sanchezi will pick at the reds and he could potentially cripple them by removing an entire tail if they are similar size and since sanchezis max at 6" while reds can double that eventually he would probably become food as a few 10" reds should be able to take down a sanchezi .


This is what I think Pfreak.

I think even in a 75g 3 8" reds and maybe a 6-7" sanchezi would have a chance. But its not worth the stress on the Nattereri to try.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Im thinking about trying again with no decor to see if aggression lowers


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## 0S1R1S (Aug 29, 2010)

Well, if you are going to try again, I would suggest adding a very strong powerhead to make a lot of current, and some Danios or something to keep them distracted. Maybe lower the temp as well. Keep us updated.


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## e46markus (Dec 9, 2010)

0S1R1S said:


> Well, if you are going to try again, I would suggest adding a very strong powerhead to make a lot of current, and some Danios or something to keep them distracted. Maybe lower the temp as well. Keep us updated.


+1 Could help.

I'm still on the end of the argument that a 55G is too small. It's almost not giving the cohab a fair chance of actually working. Although i don't think its a question of whether it will work or not; but for how long.

Interesting thread though, im gonna keep an eye on it. Good luck buddy.


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## 0S1R1S (Aug 29, 2010)

Yeah I forgot to mention about the tank. I feel that 55's have the most worthless set of dimensions of any tank, ever. Like everyone has said, I don't think this cohab has a chance or would be worth it in anything smaller than a 75g.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

Everything good so far i bought danios and an lowered temp+ moved the power head lower


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Piranha_man said:


> Interesting how so many people are trying 'cohabs' right now.
> 
> I wonder why.


Nothing new. People have been trying these type of tanks for as long as the hobby has been around. They work...they fail....it all depends on an individual tank. We tell people that aggression depends on the individual fish...and then say a tank wont work because of the species. IMO...set up right...just about any cohab can work....set up wrong...it will fail every time. That is why time in the hobby is key to trying any kind of multiple fish tank.


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