# Calci-sand



## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

This just confirms what I have believed for a while now, take notice people!!!

link


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2004)

> Then, 2 weeks ago, I found my 5-year-old uromastyx dead. He showed no signs of any health problems. He was alert, active, and eating the day before. I had been taking him outside for regular sunning most of the summer and he had never looked healthier. It was a shock to us. I did not know what had gone wrong. We had this happen with a previous animal. He had died due to impaction on his substrate. That was the last time I used orchid bark. I thought this could be a similar situation. Also, my female bearded dragon started dropping weight and discontinued eating. Two animals that were doing fine, suddenly having health problems made me worry. I then started looking at the last change we made, and that was the substrate. Even before really investigating the issue, I pulled all of my desert lizards off of the Fre-Flow.


It seems to me that he is implicating the use of Calcium Carbonate substrate for the ill-health of his reptiles without any irrefutable evidence. He never performed a necropsy on the animal that died to confirm whether a digestive impaction had caused its death. The fact that his lizard died after he changed the substrate is circumstantial evidence. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm only stating that his evidence procedure is incomplete.

I was always uncomfortable with the use of calcium carbonate as a substrate myself. I theorize that in the wild, these animals only ingest milligrams of useable calcium salts a day. But if they are in a cage full of Calcium Carbonate, they can increase that intake thousands of times. That's like a person eating a store-display of antacids every few days. There could very likely be some drawbacks to such an unnatural Calcium intake.


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## TANK (Nov 18, 2003)

I have been told MANY times from different keepers/breeders that one should NEVER use these products. And these EXPERIENCED people are the ones that I always listen to. 
But for the general pet store customer it isnt so easy. For one the pet shop employees are usually the ones that say its best to use. And these are the peole with the knowledge right? 
Then there are the companies that make and sell the product. They are extremely good at marketing thier product. An example...Hot Rocks.
We all know that these are crap products that are bad for our herps. But just a few years ago you could pick from a bunch of reptile books on the shelves and read about how you should use hot rocks with your animals. The catch.....the books are printed by the SAME company that sells the hot rocks. 
Products like these are always going to be available to the consumer. They are expensive "tag on" items that the general consumer is lead to believe is neccesary for the successful keeping of thier pet. 
OK rant over.
As for the the calcium carbonate......I wouldnt even use it in my hermit crab colony tank!!


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

I have used calci-sand (no brand) with my leopard gecko for years and he has been in perfect health. Maybe some lizards react differently to it? There is deffinatley an issue but since i have never had any problems i can't see any good reason (real evidence) to stop using it. I can't believe that it could kill a lizard in good health so quickly.


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

It would still be possible to keep a leo on small pebbles without any problems, but there is still the huge risk of impaction. Just because it hasn't happened it doesnt mean that it wont.

I personally think that it is a risk that i'm not willing to take.


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## PunkRockSkater39 (May 31, 2004)

I keep my baby male leo on calci-sand(name brand) it has been great and me leo looks super healthy.I would recomend it to anyone!


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

made this a poll, vote away!


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## TANK (Nov 18, 2003)

j_burf said:


> It would still be possible to keep a leo on small pebbles without any problems, but there is still the huge risk of impaction. Just because it hasn't happened it doesnt mean that it wont.
> 
> I personally think that it is a risk that i'm not willing to take.


 AGREED!!


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## indecisive (Apr 1, 2004)

SO what is a good substrate to keep a leopard gecko on? besides paper towel??


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

You could use newsprint.

I'm using repti-carpet at the moment, seems to be working quite well.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

I suppose they walk on newspaper and kitchen towels in the wild? IMO people are too paranoid bout there herps. The tempertature in the wild isn't exactly the same all the time nor is the humidity. They walk on the dirt and probably swallow a great deal of stones and dust. If they were that delicate the sepcies would have died out, or never have even evolved. I'm not saying this is good for them, but the way people go on about these special conditons it makes me laugh.


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## TANK (Nov 18, 2003)

WolfFish said:


> I suppose they walk on newspaper and kitchen towels in the wild? IMO people are too paranoid bout there herps. The tempertature in the wild isn't exactly the same all the time nor is the humidity. They walk on the dirt and probably swallow a great deal of stones and dust. If they were that delicate the sepcies would have died out, or never have even evolved. I'm not saying this is good for them, but the way people go on about these special conditons it makes me laugh.


 You make a good point. But im pretty sure that there isnt an animal ANYWHERE in the wild that lives on calcium carbonate ONLY either. My point being that in the wild the animal is going to have more of a natural range. In the home setup it is confined 24/7 in an area usually smaller than three square feet. If the only thing covering the floor of that area is calcium carbonate than I say YES the animal is going to consume more than it should.

As far as keeping animals at optimum conditions, well I keep mine at these conditions all the time. I do this to avoid many problems such as stress and disease. Its the least I can do for the animal I am caring for.

And using newspaper is economical and sanitary. Just my preferance is all.


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

indecisive said:


> SO what is a good substrate to keep a leopard gecko on? besides paper towel??


 i use crushed walnut shells
and croc keeper agrees that its good


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

I use calci sand but its onlty a small area of the tank. Most of the tank (over half anyway) is rocks and caves. I didn't realise it was pure calcium. I thought it was a dissolveable sand that contained calcium, i also thought they ate small pebbles and sand in the wild to help them digest stuff.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Neat thread,

I agree with Bullsnake on this in that the writer of the article did not follow up guess work with proper necropsy results...

I have used calci sand and have not had problems with it, I have also used natural sand without ill effect...I think that much more than substrate is at play with captives. 1 many of these desert species are not on "sand" per say in the wild. The habitats in Pakistan, Afghanistan etc.. where the leopard gecko can be found do not differ so much from some of the desert conditions here in the US in the west. meanin that hard earth such as sun baked clay, etc.. sometimes make sup the natural substrate...also we feed our animals much more than their wild counterparts , and with all this dietary change, and much higher water availability, little has been done to study possible effect and impact.


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