# Alligator leather.



## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

I saw a programme on animal planet today about crocs and alligators, and i was watching it for 10 mins and the guys says 'cities have now found a use for crocs, and there not hard to find' it then shows a shop window full of alligator handbags. I couldn't believe its still legal. The presenter whos supposed to be a crcoc lover didn't seem to care, and they went on to say alligator farms are a hige business, but they need to take eggs from the wild.
This is my main point, they say that they can take (and do) 50% of the eggs from each nest and not affect the wild population atall. Since 90% die anyway it makes no difference. I can't understand this atall, if they don't need that many eggs, they wouldn't have that many. Also it will (i think) halve the number that survive unless they somehow know which one to leave which they don't.









Just needed to tell somebody.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Wolf, believe it or not farming crocs and gators for their hides may be the only thing that has saved several species....

The American Alligator owes its incredible populoation density to such efforts as do populations of Nile crocs, Indo-pacific(Salties) crocs, and the New-Guinea croc....Then there is the fact that if it were not for farms the Chinese Alligator would not even be with us as the damn created across the Yangtze River destroyed all their natural range by flooding it......

It is sad to see them reduced to boots, wallets, handbags, etc is very sad, but if they are farmed it is really no different than cattle leather, etc...and that is coming from a serious croc lover, dedicated keeper and serious student of the crocodilia...


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

but what i donn't understand is they justify taking 50% from each wild nest by saying it has absolutley no affect on there population. How can this happen? If for example she lays 30 eggs, and 90% die leaves 3. Therefore if she starts with 15 (half taken) then wouldn't that mean only 1-2 survive?


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> but what i donn't understand is they justify taking 50% from each wild nest by saying it has absolutley no affect on there population. How can this happen? If for example she lays 30 eggs, and 90% die leaves 3. Therefore if she starts with 15 (half taken) then wouldn't that mean only 1-2 survive?


Why don't they just raise crocs or gators and breed them instead? is it that difficult to breed them and have them lay eggs in captivity? I do see your point in that if they have a certain amount of eggs that only so many die and if you take half that could mean that less can survive. Maybe its illegal to raise them or they don't want to deal with the responsibility or they don't have the space to raise them. Was this in the USA?
BTW, I don't watch animal planet anymore since they kept airing programs that would bad mouth the APBT and portray it as an evil animal.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

WolfFish said:


> but what i donn't understand is they justify taking 50% from each wild nest by saying it has absolutley no affect on there population. How can this happen? If for example she lays 30 eggs, and 90% die leaves 3. Therefore if she starts with 15 (half taken) then wouldn't that mean only 1-2 survive?


 I agree with your argument. The counter argument is the low cost of leather from these farms takes pressure off of the wild population (prices down=less hunting).

You are correct that the one genetically superior croc may be going to a farm, but the big picture is reduced hunting pressure on the survivors.


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

they do breed some in captivity, but theres so much demand for them they take wild stocks.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Taking the eggs out of the wild has many advantages...the nests they are taken from run risk of predators, bacteriological, fungal issues, natural disasters (like 4 freakin hurricanes hitting FL in one year) etc... then there is the fact that even once hatched the mortality on young crocdilians is HIGH, not unlike fish...and being they are artificially incubated we contorl how many hatch male, and how many hatch female...now some of those animals are released into the wild in areas the eggs were harvested from, a YEAR after they hatch....meaning the young gators have a huge headstart...the bottom line is that the wild population is obviously helped as the alligator population in Florida has done nothing but explode...which is a problem all its own as the human population is exploding as well creating more "nuisance" gator issues......In africa the farming of niloticus has helped as the prices of the captively produced leather is WAY cheaper than poached animals, and so the demand for illegally collected leather is virtually eliminated, meaning wild populations are allowed to recover from poaching pressures that they were formerly under.....


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> now some of those animals are released into the wild in areas the eggs were harvested from, a YEAR after they hatch


Key point! Luckily these are animals that don't have problems reacclimating to the wild (not exactly California condors! )


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

CrocKeeper said:


> It is sad to see them reduced to boots, wallets, handbags, etc is very sad, but if they are farmed it is really no different than cattle leather, etc...and that is coming from a serious croc lover, dedicated keeper and serious student of the crocodilia...


 Good thread.








I know what you mean. It's an insult to the dignity of these massive, prehistoric predators to be reduced to handbags and boots for trend-sucking prima donnas. But, farmed animals are not wild animals and the wild population of alligators in Florida have exceeded a million animals.

Florida as a whole, is an ecological holocaust if I ever saw one. Every year hundreds of thousands of people migrate to Florida. Everyone from retired mid-westerners to Central America immigrants. Tremendous tracts of land are being cleared for housing developments constantly. Soon, there will be no room for the alligator outside of the big parks.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Even more threatened are the eastern diamondback and the indigo snake. When I was a field biologist in Florida, these two jumped out as animals of concern, they like the dry areas that people also like. Luckily for gators, they don't!


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

very interesting guys. Thanks for the info


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

It is really awesome to see the range of experience represented here...and thanks to all of you for the interest and topics you generate....


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