# Requested Information on Vine Snakes.....



## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

The information was requested on Asian Vine Snakes; Genus (_Ahaetulla_)

The Ahaetulla are called Vine snakes and Oriental Whip snakes and Asian Vine snakes.

These agile slender serpents are at home in the trees, which is no surprise as dfue to their arboreal nature.......which does not mean they are not able to haul across terra firma! Green with a white to blue dorso-lateral stripe. They virtually are invisible in the trees and shrubs. Like scrub pythons the have an almost velvet look to them, and an incredible irridescence. The fact that they are beautiful snakles comes second to the fact the are opisthoglyphs! Their vision is second to NONE in the snake world! The "figure eight" horizontal pupils are aligned with a lateral groove on the face.....giving them exceptional depth perception and a bird like binocular vision! This vision however comes with a price.....making these snake diurnal animals shutting down with the setting of the sun.

The threat display of these animals is much like the threat display of the Boiga......an inflated trachea and throat.......showing the intersticial skin under those green scales giving them a blue, black and white checkered appearance. If that threat is ignored......they will strike, accurately! The inquisitive nature of these nad other well visioned arboreal snakes lends to there keepers becoming infatuated with their "need" to know what is going on around them.

In captivity aside from an obvious need for a large roomy enclosure, and plenty of vines and branches for climbing. they have requirements that many disagree with my personal assessment......and that is a requirement of ULTRAVIOLET light....uva/b.......These lights should be along with their heat lamps plugged into a timer. The cycles can vary a little but a 10/14 - 12/12 cycle is recommended. Temperatures for these guys should range from 80 degrees to basking sites around 95 degrees (degrees are given in Farenheight for those of you centigrade users! ) These nervous snakes need plenty of hide box options, so I always offer them two or three.....
Water should be given with water bowl, and a rain system set up in the enclosure. Humidity percentages should be maintaned at 90-100%. The rain system should accomplish this well.......if you do not have this option then frequent and strong misting with a spray bottle is needed daily......

These guys are seldom bred and as a result seldom get to see the brown live born offspring.......the other down side......that means you are getting wild caught animals that will require quarantine, and treatmnent for parasites.

These specialized lizard and small bird feeders *SHOULD NEVER BE HANDLED*!
Dietary issues arise, as you will need plentiful lizards....hoiuse geckos work, but as they tend to be nocturnal are difficult in well planted tanks.so anolis, and other diurnal species fare better, as do zebra and society finches....which breed readily and can be fed as nestlings, fledgelings or adults...

Much of what is acceptable for housing these is also suitable for the Genus (_Oxybelis_)

Those of you with experience with either of the genus mentioned feel free to add your thoughts!


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

The only thing I can add is that, as with all bird eating reptiles, make sure you can easily clean the enclosure and substrate. Bird eaters tend to make a seriously messy and smelly cage.


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## dark FrOsT (Sep 23, 2006)

thanks that was very informative ... what size enclosure would you recomand for one ... 40 gallon tall or largers ?? and would you get an undertank heater .. im thinking its pointless cause they spend there days in the trees

dark FrOsT


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Why should they not be handled?


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

This species is slender, agile, and fast. They can and will bite, but are not overly aggressive. If handled they must be handled with great care because they are a venomous snake.

Below is a random net pic of the species incase anyone wanted to know what they look like.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

Sorry Mettle.....sometimes I forget....I used the term Opisthoglyphous and did not offer a definition...my bad.

Opisthoglyphs are venomous snakes with a "rear" fang (several species of opisthoglyphs have rather large well developed "fangs" that are awful far forward...the most known example are the Boomslangs)....meaning their venom delivery system is rudementary comparative to the proteroglyphs (short forward located fixed fangs) or advanced species like selenoglyphs( forward fangs that rotate from a folded position into a striking position)....These definitions gang are basic let you get the idea answers....

I NEVER endorse the handling of ANY venomous species Mettle.....and even though these are considered "mildly" venomous.....I asure you that when you see how quickly that venom acts on a live bird......it makes you think twice. There is always the problem also of anaphylactic reactions to ANY venom.....so it is not worth the risk.

On top of that......highly active acutely aware of their surroundings snakes like these endure SERIOUS STRESS when handled....so even if this particular group was not venomous I would seriously not endorse handling for the sanity of the snake.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

When you say mildly venomous... would that be in the same classification as, say, the hognose? Or is it moreso?


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

MUCH more so......hognose struggle with prey, these guys do not......which is why I say HANDS OFF!
If you wnat to hold your western, dusky, mexican or eastern hognose....you can as these species are not prone to biting and the toxins that are present are in such infestisemal amounts coupled with the EXTREME rear facing of the "fangs" that envenomation is really unlikely........(note not impossible) and the venoms are still under debate in the North American Hognose species as to what dangerthey present to Humans.

I want to take a moment because of this direction of travel to talk about Twig snakes of the Genus _*Theltornis*_

THESE SNAKES ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE AS CAPTIVES THE PRIVATE HOME!!!!!!!

I say that sternly because their venom is exceedingly effective on mammals and there have been plenty of human deaths to back up the fact we are a mammal! These guys I see offered occasionally on lists and they are attractive on their heads anyway...but seriously......NO REASON to put your life at risk......their deliberate nature and slow tongue give a false sense of tameness and slowness.....neither of which are accurate.....they are FAST and if restrained will bite quickly and accurately.


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## dark FrOsT (Sep 23, 2006)

i agree with the zero handling part ... i dont understand why people would. you are basiclly increasing the chance of being bit by like 1000000. the only time i think venoms snakes should be handled is when you are removing them from an enclosure with a hook in to either a rumbermaid or bag so you can clean the cage.


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

There are also options like properly designed enclosures with shift boxes built in so that you can even eliminate having to handle the snake at all.


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## dark FrOsT (Sep 23, 2006)

that would be very nice to have in a vemonous snake enclosure. what size tank would be ideal for a green vine snake


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## CrocKeeper (Dec 26, 2003)

for adults....I would not do anything less than 4 feet long, 4 feet tall and 2 feet in width......If you go with a glass enclosure...ORDER A PRE_DRILLED TANK so that you can runa bulkhead fitting and pipe into a filter system (use a gravel bed and plant some live pothos potted hidden in the gravel)....then run the discharged water from the first filter into a second and then into your rain/system resevoir............so that you filter your tank and utilize the rain for humidity.......


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## dark FrOsT (Sep 23, 2006)

where can i find instructions to make something like that.

i was thinking for the time being about doing this:
make an almost all moss bed, with a really large water bowl (basiclly like a pool for the snake). i think that would help with the humidity. and mist 3-4 times a day or make or buy a mister (rather make). the down side is everyime it poops i will most like have to clean the water. the tank will be full of live plants and have lots of climbing.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

CrocKeeper said:


> for adults....I would not do anything less than 4 feet long, 4 feet tall and 2 feet in width......If you go with a glass enclosure...ORDER A PRE_DRILLED TANK so that you can runa bulkhead fitting and pipe into a filter system (use a gravel bed and plant some live pothos potted hidden in the gravel)....then run the discharged water from the first filter into a second and then into your rain/system resevoir............so that you filter your tank and utilize the rain for humidity.......


Dammit that just gave me the chills reading that! Makes me want to try and build a new enclosure.


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## dark FrOsT (Sep 23, 2006)

this what im thinking now ... im going to make a mister ... use a pump, put some tubing on the end, at the end of the tubing have a mister end nossle. place the pump into a bucket, fill the bucket with water and plug it in to a timer so it will run 3-4 times a day.

im hoping the water will evaporate between each misting cycle so there will not be any water building up.

i want the bucket out side the tank so i dont have to go inside in order to fill it back up

but im not sure how to get the nozzle into the tank and being able to seal it so the snake cant get out. im thinking that i could cut a small hole in the lid and the seal it with either silcome or some type of glue.

any suggestions

dark FrOsT


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