# Cichlids



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

What cichlids cant live together....like Serras cant live with Pygos....


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## Ron (Mar 27, 2003)

wow, this is a HUGE answer.

do you mean just water conditions, violence, ???


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

lol, yeah what Ron said


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

hmmmm, I am a complete Cichlid newbie....

I am talking about which cichlids (as a group) will kill other cichlids in the same tank.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

What size is your tank? Or are you just planning on getting a tank once you've decided what cichlids your getting?


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

generally put a big cichlid with a small cichlid and you will be left with just the big cichlid, but some are just mean as hell

Flowerhorns have a bad reputation if you just want a species.

I'm not so good with the mean cichlids as the only ones I have ever had are pretty social, but I'm sure that someone will be able to help you further.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Are there any types of cichlids that will not tolerate each others company?


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

Xenon said:


> Are there any types of cichlids that will not tolerate each others company?


 there are ALOT of cichlids that are just like serrasalmus species, if you don't give them enough space.

If you'd GIVE US YOUR TANK SIZE, we could offer specimen suggestions!


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## SnowCichlid (Jan 10, 2003)

yeah the list of cichlids tops over thousands ... especially with hybrids and strined breeds so.... if we made a list, you would fall asleep before you finished comparing them all, or be old and gray.

What size tank and what style are you looking for, more community
you can get cichlids that range in sizes from 1" max to like 3 feet
with aggresions of super peaceful ranging to crazt aggresive
with shapes from hotdogs to frizbees
with many different colours and patterns
...etc...
tell me what you want and I will build you a few fish :smile:


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

I'll give you a list of some cichlids that usually need to be kept by themselves 
NOTE: I'm just generalizing here, assuming that he is going to put them in a tank under 100g.

red devil
midas
trimac
flowerhorn
buttikoferi
managuense

these are just some of the more popular cichlids that tend "not to play nice"







mike if you have any specific questions and can give me some feedback of tank size and such, feel free to contact me over IM.


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## Croz (Jan 29, 2003)

only ones i have ever had were convicts and a green terror , the GT was pritty cool and when breeding the convicts are nutballs attacking my hand and crap.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

heres a handy cichlid link


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

Alot of times you can keep mid sized CAs like Jacks together with lots of other fish. They might only get aggressive if they feel challenged. My Dempsey doesnt bother the 11 exodons, royal plec, pim cat, bushy nose plecs in his 40... but he sure as hell ate the 6 inch clownknife in one hour for some reason. A cichlid i really one is a Hatitinis (sp?) Jeff Rapps has them. Black Nastys.. really mean looking. If you are looking to keep a very cool looking community tank... I would go with zebra or royal plecos and Electric Blue Dempseys..(electric blues are the french-men of cichlids)







, but they look AWESOME.


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

If i were going to give you advice on creating a bad ass 40gallon... I would probably tell you to find a male flowerhorn (which can be kept in a smaller tank then most for its size) or a bunch of Dempseys. I would probably pick up 5-10 dempseys and put them in the 40. Set up a divider so you can keep the ones you like from getting torn up. I would start weeding them out depending on their looks and temperment. You could easily get a breeding pair if thats what you wanted... or a single bad ass male. Get rid of all but 3 of them over the next 4 months. He should be around 6 inches by the sixth month and you will know who you are going to keep. Get rid of all the dempseys that didnt make the cut, then throw a few exodons in there to clean up after him.

The tank i have set up like this is brutal... Its not pretty when a pinky goes in there. The exos act like the ps in mad piranhas videos


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## optix (May 30, 2003)

haha I can't believe nobody mentioned doviis or umbees. The bad asses of the cichlid realm are red devil, midas, trimac, jaguar, umbee and the bad ass of all (with record of 30 inch male) the dovii aka wolf cichlid. the mouth is big enough on a full grown male to take a fish almost its full size!!! heres a link to freshen up your cichlid knowledge Predatory cichlids be sure to pay extra close attention to the doviis tempermant report


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

optix said:


> haha I can't believe nobody mentioned doviis or umbees. The bad asses of the cichlid realm are red devil, midas, trimac, jaguar, umbee and the bad ass of all (with record of 30 inch male) the dovii aka wolf cichlid. the mouth is big enough on a full grown male to take a fish almost its full size!!! heres a link to freshen up your cichlid knowledge Predatory cichlids be sure to pay extra close attention to the doviis tempermant report


 dovii require a 300 gallon tank at full size, and umbees require a 500 gallon tank at full size

I'm pretty sure Xenon doesn't want to buy a 300 gallon tank just yet.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

and if he did I doubt it will be for cichlids


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

I really see no point in keeping those fish







500 gallons waisted on one stupid cichlid. Who really cares and they are just bad ass because they are so big. Flowerhorns are by far the most aggressive since they have been specifically bread to be like that. Doviis hide behind rocks under their 12 inches, same with red devils. Umbees are the only really outgoing ones when they are smaller. I would much rather have a tank that size full of peacock bass like hareball then waist it on one dovii or umbee, no to mention this is his first cichlid.

WOW i still hasnt set in how big of a waist of a tank that is.. Hmmm if i had a 500 gallon i would create a giant amazon tank with 12 shoaling brandtii, or 100 Cariba, then i would put a dovii in there and see how he managed.


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## optix (May 30, 2003)

yeah aaaaaaa Dovii. how bout I put aaaaa brandtii in a pond with 12 doviis and see how he managed. Does this always have to end up being a c*ck war proving that the only reason to have a pirahna is for destruction. It seems like thats how it goes around here, if "the new guy" posts something about an aggressive cichlid that all of a sudden there is a reason to throw it in a tank with your "bad ass" "aggressive" pirahnas. I came here to learn about pirahnas but continually am given reason to believe the only reason to have the damn things is to rid face of all other species of animal or some sh*t. I love cichlids I live and breathe them with this hobby, but wanted to give the pirahna a chance because I knew it was an interesting species. Yes the dovii may be rather big but I want to keep mine in a pond once I have the space. And what else would give a cichlid the upper hand with something that has razors in its mouth. If a dovii had jagged knives for a mouth I doubt anyone would be brave enough to own one. That damn thing would very well be on the top of the food chain.(not literally)


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

i like these ones








Scientific name: Nandopsis Dovii 
Common name: Wolf cichlid or Dow's cichlid

I wounder where i get those at ...


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

yes bananaman those are called dovii


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

to bad 12 dovii could not coexist in a pond which is exactly the point. Why waste 500 gallons on one fish? There are much better fish to waist water on


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## JesseD (Mar 26, 2003)

i personally would go with oscars...ever since i started keeping fish i have had oscars.

they arent really aggressive, but more territorial. they learn to recognize when they are being fed and each fish has a a different personality. a VERY fun fish to keep









oh yeah...they also grow very fast!


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

I too think dovii suck. I'd get a 500g tank for 1 umbee though, because I understand that they are all-out killers


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

from what i have gathered dovii are actually more bad-ass and actually need more room then umbees, which are more about body mass then length. The doviis have much better weapons and are just cold blooded killers. Femake doviis do not grow that big at all in comparison to the males, which makes keeping one at least somewhat reasonable to someone with a 250 gallon. I dont think that umbees are even real guadpotes if i recall. Either way... a 5oo gallon non piranha tank for me would be full of asian arrows or silver for that matter... rays and flowerhorn. Not one fish. 5 3 1/2 foot silvers would be damn impressive.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

BDKing57 said:


> from what i have gathered dovii are actually more bad-ass and actually need more room then umbees, which are more about body mass then length. The doviis have much better weapons and are just cold blooded killers. Femake doviis do not grow that big at all in comparison to the males, which makes keeping one at least somewhat reasonable to someone with a 250 gallon. I dont think that umbees are even real guadpotes if i recall.


indeed, umbees are NOT considered guapotes-- they lack pseudocanines.
however, all my sources (my sources being, several website specie descriptions and the entirety of predatoryfish.net's users) state explcitly the opposite of yours-- everyone says that umbee are open-water predators, and are way more active than dovii and most other cichlids in general, and hence need the extra room.

also, while I and you and pretty much the rest of the fish world in general have no scientific proof for this, I'd put my bets on umbee in a fight


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## bobme (Feb 17, 2003)

so where do i get one at?


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

Jeff Rapps. www.tangledupincichlids.com


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## optix (May 30, 2003)

Look guys just to apologize about bursting out and sh*t, I understand everyone has a biased opinion on their favorite fish. Look pirahnas are bad as hell, I do like that species, but my love for fish comes with cichlids. I love the display of power that comes from a dovii. And just for the record I have seen an umbee and dovii fight, Dovii always kicks the sh*t out of the umbee. Just my .02 cents and my apologies guys


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

optix said:


> Look guys just to apologize about bursting out and sh*t, I understand everyone has a biased opinion on their favorite fish. Look pirahnas are bad as hell, I do like that species, but my love for fish comes with cichlids. I love the display of power that comes from a dovii. And just for the record I have seen an umbee and dovii fight, Dovii always kicks the sh*t out of the umbee. Just my .02 cents and my apologies guys


 how big were they?


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## optix (May 30, 2003)

first fight I saw was between a 16" male umbee and a 14" male dovii both were F1's second fight and boy was it brutal wasn't even meant to happen, my friend was introducing his new wild caught 24" male dovii to his pond and as soon as it hit the water 2 15" male umbees attacked the dovii. The dovii quickly disposed of them both before we could do anything. there were fish remains at the surface and needless to say they weren't dovii bodies. He almost didn't allow it to stay in there but eventually dug a 15x15 pond thats 4.5 feet and calculated out to just shy of 6000 gallons and now has 6 12"+ jags 4 15"+ umbees 2 male doviis that are both 20" and the hoss that hasn't grown anymore since that is 24" F0 male dovii. there is the occasional bickering out of the jags there are 3 males I believe one of which used to be mine (hes 16") 3 female jags 2 female umbees and 2 male's and all three doviis are male. There were 8 jags but yesterday we introduced some elongatus piranhas that our local fish guy basically gave us (6 6"ers for 85 bucks. the story is in another thread) but before the elongatus' were eliminated they took out two 12" female jags. The pond doesn't sound that big but when you are right next to it you can understand them not fighting. there is enough room to go around. besides the bigger the area the less aggressive the cichlid will be as long as they are all introduced at the same time.


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## piranha45 (Apr 8, 2003)

wow....


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

sweet


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

that confirms what i though... dovii just seem like a more war like fish... umbees are just to big and vulnerable to flank attacks, plus they are probably not as stream line.. and to think he added a fish against two established umbees... well that just says it all right there.


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