# best overall solution for cleaning and water changes



## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

Hi guys,

I am jsut wondering what would be the easiest setup for changing water and gravel vac cleaning.

i would like an electric pump is there anyhting on the market for this.....

can i just modify and make something out of any water pump, it would be a new one, so i would think itll be plenty clean after rinsing it from brand new packaging

*:Revised: overall i jsut wanted to make my gravel vac electric basically.. sorry i couldnt think to say that to begin with 1-29-07 6pm*

30 gallon tank with a Whisper 30 and a Aqua Cear 50 3stage
4" RB Piranha


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## Dawgz (Aug 18, 2005)

i guess ur best bet is a Python Gravel Vac or just a ordinary Gravel Vac + bucket


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

Whats so hard about doing gravel vacs and water changes or are you just tired of doing it by hand?


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

yes i use a gravel vac+bucket now and it works well

i guess im mainly refering to water changes for automation

just wondering what is out there, or can i rig whatever i want


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

yeah man, just use the "python" gravel vac, do like a 40% change once a week and your set


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

i feel anytime i can automate something less chance ill forget and so much less time consumed

but yes i understand i have to get poop and food out every week

would jsut be nice if all i had to do is flip a switch to do so

not trying to be lazy but i dont htink ill ever use a tank divider to clean with i jsut stick my hand in

also removing my lid and lights makes him flip out, as it is almost impossible to do with no noise made


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## Dairy Whip (Mar 26, 2006)

kuskye25 said:


> i feel anytime i can automate something less chance ill forget and so much less time consumed
> 
> but yes i understand i have to get poop and food out every week
> 
> ...


would be nice..... but you will start to like doing water changes i do now







it dont take much time and the fish are so happy after


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

its got to happen man, your not going to beable to find something "auto" to vac your gravel, and to do a certain amount of change...stick to the old fashioned way, or if its too much work sell the fish then...thats my opinions


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

this isnt a big deal

i jsut want automation casue im a electronic freak

jsut wanted guidence to somethign to get the job done

like i said ill mod my own then

thanks anyway guys

but yeah im a speed freak and syphoning seems way old school to me in this technology age

it isnt hard and ive done it for about a year now and 4 months with my piranha

so i am well aware of syphoning

i guess my main bitch about syphoning is isnt a primer pump and to me thats jsut stupid

so maybe is there a syphon with a primer pump

if there is a syphon with a primer pump available then i guess im a dumbass sorry guys and ill look harder for one

but my main bitch about syphoning is the water is on the floor and my tank is up high so how do i get water back in with out jsut dumping it in, currently and till now i jsut dump it in slowly and hold a 5 gallon bucket up in air to my tank and it seems really stupid to me

and if dumping it in is only real solution then eys i will make a water pump for my tank casue it jsut makes sense to me

to me rigging a water pump would be godlike

and also to i could do it for almost cheaper then some expensive gravel vacs so

just watning to know is this just foolish or may i have something here

but eyah i can get and modify a mini bildge pump that wont be to powerful for about $15

and to the itstheiceman guy there is always a better way it just maybe hasntbeen made yet
i was jsut hoping that it would have already been made so instead ill make it myself or find something close and i do believe ill be able to make the system gravel vac and all with the flip of a switch, just
position it over poop and debris and turn on switch then shut it off and move to next affected area
im sure ill build my gravel vac unit now into it, but eyah iceman i never said it was to much work and would never sell any of my fish thank you


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

nice tank


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## Froogle (Mar 15, 2006)

nice tank


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

thanks for saying nice tank

i tried to go as natural as i could and lots of cover


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## dark FrOsT (Sep 23, 2006)

actually i saw a tank that was kinda like that it was on tv like when they change ppl houses to something really sweet and there was a larger fish tank that all they did was flick a switch and the water would drain and flick another and it would put new water in.. anywho just buy a python there the next best thing

ps. nice tank


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

yeah you could get a python, it hooks to your sink and turn a piece and it allows you to fill your tank, un turn this piece and its pressure siphons from your tank


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

> if its too much work sell the fish then...thats my opinions


I 100% agree with this statement. if you can't gravel vac and do water changes on a 30 gal, it's useless to even think about owning fish.


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

Leasure1 said:


> > if its too much work sell the fish then...thats my opinions
> 
> 
> I 100% agree with this statement. if you can't gravel vac and do water changes on a 30 gal, it's useless to even think about owning fish.


yeah, and theres people on here with over a 1000g's combined of fish tanks in they're homes...think of the work that is....if your really into fish keeping i wouldnt consider it a task or punishment, i enjoy doing it, gives me pleasure to see how happy my fish are afterwards


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

And the more water changes I do, the better my fish will be overall. I just did the second 50% change on 3 of my tanks in 2 days. My pleasure to give these fish the best conditions possible.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

once again ive gravel vac'ed for years and will do it forever, never said i thought it was hard or that i wont do it anymore, saying if you cant do it then sell your fish is very offensive to me, im jsut a technology freak and know for a fact it can be automated not becasue im lazy becaseu i have a brain.

so please noone else tell me to get rid of my fish again, becaseu i wont and i dont htink gravel vac is that much work.

i simply watn to no if there was another solution if not then jsut say no there is nothing else on the market

tell me to get rid of my fish again and f*ck you

you fuckers that keep reffering to this statement about getting rid of fish make good sense becasue i never said it was lots of work to gravel vac and i never said i didnt like it

i simply said is there a automated way thats all so smart fuckers

anyway thanks for the advice peopel htat didnt tell me to get rid of my fish and that understood i didnt think it was to hard i jsut thought it seemed outdated in this electronic world and wanted to know my options.. thats all i wanted to know is options, or if it was ok if i made a automated system.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

Maybe you should just get rid of the fish......
heheh j/k

You could rig up some sort of undergravel filter and have a drain drilled thru the bottom of the tank with a bulkhead plumbed in. On the bottom you can either have a ball valve that you can automatically open yourself. or look into electronically controled valves. Then have that plumbed to a hose or something that will allow you to drain the tank. This will pull everything thru the substrate. But you will need a mesh or screen over the drain so that you don't pull rocks out too. 
Then for refilling you could rig up a hose to the water system and then hook that up to an auto float that will only let the water rise to a certain point before shutting off the filling. 
But if there is big debris in the tank this will not help as you will need to manually remove large chunks of food.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

thanks blacksunshine thats all i needed to know you were very helpful

other then the get rid of your fish remark once again smart sh*t

to bad you didnt read well casue i said i was building a gravel vac unit into my electric water pump system

but yeah the people telling me to get rid of my fish is getting real old and if i saw you in real life id punch yo in your face jsut for looking at me,, jeuss christ i will never get rid of him, i think hes better looking the most pirnaha i see so, and i know all about gravel vac and have done it for years now and am fine with it, im jsut saying its time for me to upgrade from old technology and yes i have a gravel vac that hooks to my sink jsut once again im looking for upgrade and better solution from even it.

if you cant give me that solution then dont post a reply its simple logic


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

kuskye25 said:


> thanks blacksunshine thats all i needed to know you were very helpful
> 
> other then the get rid of your fish remark once again smart sh*t
> 
> ...


ill give you my address so you can come down and i can rock you how bout that one.....i was the only person who said if your that lazy get rid of the fish, one other person agree'd....every response you said you put in but yah people telling me to uh, get rid of uh my fish can uh bla bla bla bla bla...we heard you the 1st time....and the "too bad you didnt read well casue i said i was building a gravel vac unit..." if your such a smartass even after someone gave you a good idea, why bother asking questions then??? and i bet you my red looks better then yours


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

kuskye25 and Iceman calm down, there is not need for name calling, or talking trash over the internet, etc... This is an fish forum to help others, and quite frankly I would also be offended if someone suggested to sell my fish simply because I wanted input on how to automate a system. I am not saying anyone is right nor wrong here, but this conversation could go around and around until a MOD shows up and hands out warnings.

Nonetheless, kuskye25 do a search in the equipment forum. There was a member a while back that successfully competed an auto-top off with an auto drain on this tank. I believed that he used an medical IV device to get this to work, but you could also use one of those auto-dosing systems used by Reef keepers the doses Kalk or any other supplemental. I am not sure that his had a vac system built in, so you might want to review his original work and adjust it according to meet your needs/design. Your idea/design has been done before so I know that it is possible.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

It sounds like you already have things figure out man.....you don't need our help. I still feel that there is no better way to clean a tank other than the old fashion way. I will never trust "having automated to be 100% error proof". What if something gets stuck in the gravel, like a peice of food, then causes a bacterial bloom and ammonia to rise.

Good luck, sounds like alot of work for a 30 gal.


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## BlackSunshine (Mar 28, 2006)

kuskye25 said:


> to bad you didnt read well casue i said i was building a gravel vac unit into my electric water pump system












I'm sorry. I was trying to skip over the parts where you were whining about getting rid of your fish and I the way you type out your thoughts made me inclined to skip over a good portion of your posting.

I was ignoring all the Jibber jabber and giving you an answer.

Too bad you come off like an ass. I don't think I will be inclined to answer any more of your postings. Good luck with your project.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

Great way to start out on the site......huh?


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

Leasure1 said:


> Great way to start out on the site......huh?


lol...he just needs to re-word some words...the only reason why i mentioned to get rid of the fish, because you were saying stuff that was leading to you being lazy, but you con-curred w/ using a whole automation system...i could see you maybe setting some auto. up for a 200g+ tank, but for a 30 man it will only take 10 minutes at the extreme most, maybe 15 if you stub a toe....if you can make something work tho man, id like to be one of the 1st ones to see it in action


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

I own a python but its to slow I.M.O so I switched to a garden hose and a large gravel vac...It drains my tank much quicker and the gravel vac I have hooked to the hose holds a lot more gravel then the python.


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

zippa said:


> I own a python but its to slow I.M.O so I switched to a garden hose and a large gravel vac...It drains my tank much quicker and the gravel vac I have hooked to the hose holds a lot more gravel then the python.


notice things on the hose (like equipement) with small openings and such....i re-worked some of mine







.....and on the vac part bust of that whole square bottom thing, i busted mine flush right off so its just the circle...f*ck do i have some killer suction (and im not even using the sink to drain the water) its all about the laundry room drain my freinds


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## SangreRoja (Feb 18, 2006)

Dam this is better then a soapopera :laugh:


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## SAFETYpin (Feb 1, 2004)

Auto Drip set up is about the closest thing I can think of that meets your needs. You would still need to do gravel vacs occasionaly.

http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/diy_a...ter_changes.php

http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/auto_water_changer.php


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

thanks guys overall im happy with the responses

and im sorry for referring to what im making as automated, it will be manual for gravel vac'ing and thats all... other then that itll all be done by the flip of a switch

anyway thanks guys

sorry i got mad but i was jsut pissed someone would even say i should get rid of my fish, becasue that was never in my head at all or ever will be, the prinaha is here to stay...haha

and i have other tanks besides my pirnaha tank 4 others to be exact and yes i get real sick of doing them all so old fashion like or so it seems old fashion to me anyway

when i get it fully operational for less the $20 ill post a pic and show the value and time and effort saved

*overall i jsut wanted to make my gravel vac electric basically.. sorry i couldnt think to say that to begin with*

and my lasts thoughts on iceman and leasure1 sorry dude but i have minor training in martial arts and very good with multiple weapons, so enjoy, and with that i start nothing, only defend myself as i did here in this whole post


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

_*Topic Moved to Tank and Equipment Forum*_


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

Why not just buy a python? Basically "automated" hook it to the sink and turn the water on..Viola!! You have suction,vac'n power and drainage.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

does it condition the water when putting it back in, and what about monitoring temp of incoming water

but yes my gravel vac now works great taking water out and poop and debris


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

Just add the conditioner to the tank...After you do a few water changes you can feel the water by hand and get the temp where it needs to be...Pythons work great if you have good water preasure.

The python has a gravel vac right on the end of it too.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

sorry i was always told to condition water before it touches the tank unless its a new tank fill

but im not saying thats right thats for sure ive only been messing with fish for a year or so

i just know that despite what people say i think water changes are stressfull on fish

cause new water thats not cycled and jsut chemically treated to remove chlorines

unless my fishes water has bad parameters i jsut do 10 to 20% once a week

once again though not saying im right at all i jsut know fish stress easy, hell my piranha stresses jsut off seeing me sometimes

definitely stop me though if im wrong caseu i would love to jsut run my tap into my tank then treat it, it would be so much easier


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

You should be doing 25% water changes once a week...Stress or not your fish will be better off because of it...As for conditioning the water before its in the tank that up to you..I have never had to add anything to my water but from threads I have read by ppl who are way more experienced then me its safe to just add it to the tank as you fill it.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

well thats some good info man thanks ill have to comfirm it of course cause im a freak about my fishes health i dont doubt the 25% thing though at all jsut want to confirm the tap water straight into the tank thing

i also care for a cichlid tank and another few community tanks and this would make water changes a sinch

but yes i ahve a gravel vac system i never use that hooks to tap i jsut thought that was bad for filling


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

Another option is fill buckets with your water add the conditioner to the buckets then set up a power head with a hose and use it to pump the water from the bucket to the tank...I would stick with the python though.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

thats a good idea dont have any idea why i didnt think of using my power filter

mainly i just hated bucketing water into tank, to me it jsut seemed foolish ahhah


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

zippa your a god
duhh i jsut figured out all i need is a spare power filter and ill rig a switch to its wiring and there i have it
water electronicly taken from and to my tank via bucker or whatever

and i can make it adaptable to my gravel vac and have a power gravel vac all run by a spare power filter

i bow to you for this one ive been racking my brain over for some time

thanks man

its exactly what i was looking for a cheap but very effective way


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

They really aren't meant for that use and may burn up quicker than normal but I assure you that it will drain or fill a tank very fast.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

yes ill do testing with a spare one i have tonight

thanks man


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

No problem that's what this forum is here for.


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## Leasure1 (Jul 24, 2006)

> cause new water thats not cycled and jsut chemically treated to remove chlorines


Your water doesn't "cycle", your filters are what cycle, and hold bacterias, thus making water changes a good thing to rid of built up nitrates and other junk. Less water changes can be worse for the fish in the long run than more. Rather strees the fish for the 30 min I am in the tank cleaning than stress him for a week due to lack of water changes.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

if i have to though i guess ill figure out a real water pump if these cheap power filters i have burn up fast

but once again thanks for getting me on my way

sorry leasure me and not typing what i mean i meant established tank water not cycled, my bad but yes thanks for the input i do believe you with that many pirnaha tanks know lots about it, lots more then i im sure

so leasure1 even if my parameters are ok thru the week, cause i do water changes weekly that is still stressing them


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Here's what I do:
First, my tap water sucks, so I keep an old but non-leaking 55 full of water for my water changes. That way I can heat it to the same temp as my tanks, treat it with de-chlor and whatever else I want to do so it's good to go into my fish tanks. 
Second, I bought a used Magnum 350 that I use to power-vac my tank with. I just run water through the blue filter sleeve and some filter floss and back into the tank so I can clean for as long as I want without totally draining the tank or hook a longer hose up to do a cleanup while draining the tank.
Third, I bought a Rio 2500HP powerhead for dirt cheap off e-bay, it CRANKS water through it. I put that in the 55 gallon holding tank, hook up a hose to that and refill the fish tanks with my pre-heated, pre-conditioned water. 
Not what you'd called automated really but I get pristine water quality in my fish tanks, I never have to carry buckets around and my fish get the same quality of water every time.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

so i guess i may have a rough draft of what ill make in next few days thanks to piranha fury and all who posted....

only thing major ill change from this picture is the water outlet will be on the bottom of the unit and ill mod a stand onto it, and with a primer bulb i dont see how ill burn up any power filter or water pump

just a rough draft though im sure itll work out way different then i envision, much better then this im sure


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

Bawb2u said:


> Here's what I do:
> First, my tap water sucks, so I keep an old but non-leaking 55 full of water for my water changes. That way I can heat it to the same temp as my tanks, treat it with de-chlor and whatever else I want to do so it's good to go into my fish tanks.
> Second, I bought a used Magnum 350 that I use to power-vac my tank with. I just run water through the blue filter sleeve and some filter floss and back into the tank so I can clean for as long as I want without totally draining the tank or hook a longer hose up to do a cleanup while draining the tank.
> Third, I bought a Rio 2500HP powerhead for dirt cheap off e-bay, it CRANKS water through it. I put that in the 55 gallon holding tank, hook up a hose to that and refill the fish tanks with my pre-heated, pre-conditioned water.
> Not what you'd called automated really but I get pristine water quality in my fish tanks, I never have to carry buckets around and my fish get the same quality of water every time.


yes thats awesome man thanks for the info


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## zippa (Apr 29, 2005)

Bucket,Power head and a rubber hose is all you need to pump the water.


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## kuskye25 (Jan 16, 2007)

yes thanks guys ill incorporate all youve said into this build

sorry zippa im a dumbass i understand now a powerhead is what im looking for not a power filter


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## Geis (Jan 16, 2007)

Here's an option for you that I do that makes it quick and easy cause like you, I'm a busy man with little or no time.
First I get a gravel vac end, (larger sized tube attached to another tube that would fit inside my Python hose)
I stick it in my python tube and run it to a sink or tube or drain
Then i grab my Powerhead and turn it on and stick it striaght into the hose. Pull it away and you are already syphoning. This creates the sucking without any or no effort by you. Then my water chages just become my gravel vaccuming also.
Make sure you aways keep the hose in the water and have the plug for the Powerhead close by cause you will have to turn it off cause the water goes down passed it and will burn out the motor.

Hope this helps!!


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