# Same day tank transfer risky? (Few Probs)



## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Ok, I had posted a similar thread but wanted to re-post now I know exactly what I'm about to do. Here's what I got:

27g bow-front 
- Fluval 204 canister
- live plants (java fern, watersprite, java moss)
- neutral assorted rocks
- live african cichlid sand (which keeps PH high at about 7.6, my tap PH is about 6.8 normally)

My RB"s have been in this tank for almost 2 months now and have been doing wonderfully & my water chemistry is mint. Here is my new set-up

55g 
- Eheim 2215 canister
- transferring all live plants to this tank
- transferring rocks to this tank
- 60lbs of new Caribsea sand (doesn't affect PH)

The new tank has been running since Saturday on new filter media in the Eheim. I did a bunch of water changes to get the cloudiness of the sand out over the last few days. I have not put anything in terms of cycle chemicals/ammonia sources/fish into the new tank, just stress coat to de-chlorinate.

So, my plan this weekend is this:

1. take all the plants/rocks out of the old tank and begin setting them up in the new one
2. net out the RB's & put them in a bucket with a big airstone & heater
3. shut down the Fluval and transfer all it's media into the Eheim (biomax, carbon, filter pads/floss)
4. transfer 27g of old water into new tank (I know this won't really do much for the bacteria, maybe I shouldn't)
5. let it run for a little, not sure how long?
6. acclimate the RB's to the new water by introducing it into the bucket slowly
7. net out the RB's and put them into the new tank gently
8. cross my fingers?

Is this the right way to do this all? I'm just worried that the cycle won't be established enough and might kill my RB's. Main problem is that I really need to get the smaller tank out of my apt. to it's original owner & also my RB's are starting to turn on each other because of the tight quarters. I know running a normal 4-5 week cycle would be my safest bet, but I don't have much time on my hands.

Please let me know your thoughts if anyone has done anything similar and what your luck was.

Here's a pic of the new tank, this is without everything set-up with the plants and stuff










Thanks in advance!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

sounds good to me, using the water from your old tank won't do anything to help with the cycle, but it will help to avoid putting your fish into shock from a complete change of water, it would be more like doing a 50% water change, the media from your filter will also help alot to get the new tank cycled. another thing that would help is to add some gravel (or whatever substrate you were using) from the old tank into the new tank, you can do this without mixing the old substrate into the new stuff by filling up a bucket of the old stuff and submerging it in the tank or loading up some nylons and putting it in the tank, that will help the new tank handle the bio-load until your new sand has been colonized with nitrifying bacteria.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

joedizzlempls said:


> sounds good to me, using the water from your old tank won't do anything to help with the cycle, but it will help to avoid putting your fish into shock from a complete change of water, it would be more like doing a 50% water change, the media from your filter will also help alot to get the new tank cycled. another thing that would help is to add some gravel (or whatever substrate you were using) from the old tank into the new tank, you can do this without mixing the old substrate into the new stuff by filling up a bucket of the old stuff and submerging it in the tank or loading up some nylons and putting it in the tank, that will help the new tank handle the bio-load until your new sand has been colonized with nitrifying bacteria.


Good old dizzle making me feel more at ease... would using the old substrate in nylons or a bucket be bad because it effects the PH? I have a feeling I won't be able to take much of it out though either way, my friend paid for it and wanted everything back complete.

I have to laugh at how ocd I am of this whole transfer, I remember when I was 14 and my estimation of when a tank was "ready" was how clear the water was. God I long for those days of obliviousness sometimes


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

If your fish are tough they will live through the nitrite and ammonia ordeal you'll put them through with this operation you are about to perform. Twenty years ago the pet shop owners didn't make a big deal about cycling the fish tanks before adding the fish. In fact it was never mentioned to me back then and when I added fish nothing happened. I would worry if the fish had a photographic memory and remembered the discomfort you put them through during the cycle and they had the power to exact revenge on you in the after life.

Now if your fish are worth some money you shouldn't risk puting them in the tank during the cycle. I think the petstore owner wanted me to come back and buy more angelica catfishes after the ammonia and nitrite killed them.

/////////////////Edit
//For future reference I think people should give the flow rate of their filter and maximum tank size rating so I don't have to look them up. I don't plan on opening a pet 
//store and pushing filters on people.
/////////////////


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

if you can't use any of the old substrate, you should still be fine... i like to do it for safe measure if i have to set up a new tank quickly and don't have time to cycle. just keep an eye on your params and you should be fine, if need be, you can always do a water change to lower ammonia or nitrite levels if they show up


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

joedizzlempls said:


> sounds good to me, using the water from your old tank won't do anything to help with the cycle, but it will help to avoid putting your fish into shock from a complete change of water, it would be more like doing a 50% water change, the media from your filter will also help alot to get the new tank cycled. another thing that would help is to add some gravel (or whatever substrate you were using) from the old tank into the new tank, you can do this without mixing the old substrate into the new stuff by filling up a bucket of the old stuff and submerging it in the tank or loading up some nylons and putting it in the tank, that will help the new tank handle the bio-load until your new sand has been colonized with nitrifying bacteria.


i agree.
this past weekend i did something similiar:
i picked up a new rhom from this kid, and had to stay my parents house for the weekend with the new fish
they dont have a fish tank at all
first i set up a 55 with a filter from another tank i had at my place.

then i brought an empty ten gal i had, i took some bio media and some mech media from an established filter. (all my tanks are over filtered) and i also brought a small AC 300 fiter with a bunch of said established media. 
went to the kids house, and took the fish, and as much water as i could carry (like 4 gallons)
then got to my parents, set up the new tank, put the extra water i had in the ten, then added the rest as tap water, leaving room for the rest of the water the fish was in. let it run for about a half hour, all while scooping water out a cup at a time every five minutes and putting it into the fishes bucket. when the bucket filled up, i put it into the ten, and turned it over, releasing the fish.

and he was fine.

then when i left there sunday, i used the big bucket with like 4 gallons of water, got the fish into there. brought him back to my place, and re-dripped water from the 55 into the bucket. and he is fine:
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=171669 seems to be doing ok.

so i would say that your method should work, i would just do as much of what Joe said as you can. 
established media is key.

oh, and once i did all that at my parents, i started drinking beer, that was the key...
and that 55 looks nice btw
good luck.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i can't believe i forgot to mention that... as nick stated, it is of the utmost importance that you drink beer in order to ensure success, haha


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

thanks guys, I have read the "beer step" in a lot of fish literature, glad you reminded me! Sweet Rhom BTW Nick, glad he's doing good.

I think I'm ready for this transfer, will post the end result pics when the tanks all set, looking forward to it.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

you got it man, it's good that you're thinkin ahead, it'll have you thinkin while you're doin the move so that you don't make any stupid mistakes... as long as you can avoid those, you'll be good


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## Goon (Jul 6, 2007)

just have everything ready before hand and you should be fine. Like said before you must have a beer in your hand at all times!!!!


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

I did almost the same thing, except I put the new filter on the old tank first to get it established instead of transferring the media. One step you might want to add in there is dosing the new tank with a cycling product (I can reccommend Fresh Water TLC) after you get everything up and running. I did this, and got away without even a mini-cycle.
The trick, I think, is to do it as fast as possible. From the time I unplugged the filter on my old tank to the time I plugged it back in on the new tank was approx. 1 1/2hrs.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm, I just tested my PH in the new tank and it's pretty low, about 6.0. I do have a pretty big piece of driftwood in there which is prob dropping it, because my tap is about 6.8.

Should I just leave it be and hope it's steady at that low PH or worry?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

did you soak the driftwood first?


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

joedizzlempls said:


> did you soak the driftwood first?


it was from an established tank, but was out of water prob for a few years. Should I have soaked it? Maybe I should take it out of the tank altogether.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i think you'll be fine, just keep an eye on your ph levels, i doubt it will drop much more


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

joedizzlempls said:


> i think you'll be fine, just keep an eye on your ph levels, i doubt it will drop much more


will do dizzle, thanks again for the vote of confidence!


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Well, I made the transfer today & it seems like all is well so far. I know it's early, but the RB's seem very happy. I set up some killer blue moonlights on my hood, and they've been exploring all day looking super sweet. I'll post some pics as soon as they all get settled.

Thanks for the advice everyone, really helped a ton!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

glad to hear it all worked out ok, now you only have one thing left to do... take some pics of your fish in their new home and post them immediately, haha


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

^^^ haha agreed

and drink a beer, hopefully you already did that.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmmm overnight update, having a few little probs:

1. my visi-therm stealth 200W heater doesn't seem to be heating the tank properly. I had it set to around 82 all night (and it's been set around 79-80 for weeks), but the tank temp stayed at around 76.5 8 hours later. I've had it running for weeks but never checked the temp with my digital thermometer until ysterday, I thought it was working ok cause the water temp felt pretty warm to the touch. Is this wattage not enough for the 55g? I'm going to swap it out with my Jager to see if that does better, but I do like the all black of the stealth.

2. I had two pink kisser gouramis in there for a day before I did the transfer, they're still in the tank with the RB's now. I noticed at least one of them is crapping all the time and all over the place, seems abnormal. I've never seen a fish crap this much & I haven't fed them in two days. It's not like a stringy waste, it's like piece after piece after piece. Do you think it's diseased? It's like they're fighting (locking lips) and crapping, lol, wtf?! Should I get it out of there pronto?

3. noticed one of my smaller RB's is hanging around near the top of the tank behind the intake tube this morning, I feel like it's not doing well but it's not breathing hard or anything, just staying up there which is odd.

so those are my current list of woes, whatdya think guys?


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

200 w should work for a 55, it could be a problem with the heater.

not sure about gouramis, but i never leave any fish in tanks with my piranhas... have u fed the reds? maybe they are eating the leftovers.
or worse, either way, i would get them out.

as far as that little guys near the intake:
do you have an airstone in the tank?
what is ur surface agitation like? could be low dissolved oxygen in the tank.
do the parameters test ok?
It could be that he just isnt making the cut with your schoal, and they dont like him, is he smaller than the rest? how is his color?
i would be concerned about this because its usually not long before a straggler gets taken out.

good luck man.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Nick G said:


> 200 w should work for a 55, it could be a problem with the heater.
> 
> not sure about gouramis, but i never leave any fish in tanks with my piranhas... have u fed the reds? maybe they are eating the leftovers.
> or worse, either way, i would get them out.
> ...


Yo Nick, thanks for the suggestions.

Let's see, I think I def have a prob with that stealth heater if the 200W is suppossed to be enough. I'll def grab my Jager tonight to get things warmed up.

The gouramis I had actually gotten cheap from a lfs and was feeding them to the P's but put them in the new tank a day before the transfer. I figured I run less risk of feeding them those because at least they're bred better than feeders. I think I might take them out but I'd have to just flush them live so I felt a tad guilty, but I really hate pink kissers & don't want to risk screwing the tank up if they're diseased.

The little RB isn't the smallest of them all, he's about 2.5" and was ok with the others in the original tank. I do have a 36" air wand that's creating good bubbles and keeping the surface agitation moving. His color seems fairly normal, he's not breathing heavily. I suspect he's still trying to get used to the new tank, hopefully. I'm going to test my water parameters tonight.

Could a temp of 76 make the fish act odd?


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## Nick G (Jul 15, 2007)

no prob dude.
76 is ok. if gouramis are just feeders, maybe leaving them in is a good way to make sure that that one straggler doesnt get eaten so quickly, and ill bet ur right, he may just be adjusting to the new tank, just make sure to keep an eye on him for fin nips.
post ur params when u test.

yeah and ill bet u that heater is shot, how old is it, it may be under warrantee if its under a year old... worth looking into.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

dang I'm bummed, I just saw my biggest RB and he had a really bad gash on his head from probably smashing/scraping up against some decor/rocks in the tank. It doesn't look like a bite or anything but it's frustrating to see them mess themselves up like that. I love P's but their skittishness can really end up hurting them sometimes.

I checked on the tank on my lunch break, I didn't have time to check my parameters but I feel like something is off. I just have this crappy feeling that I"m gonna lose all the fish, I really hope not.

The temp went up a little to about 77 so that's a little better, I'll just have to keep monitoring stuff.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

A 200 watt heater might be enough to heat 55 gallons...but it will take a while...and if your house is cold you really need a little larger heater....or two heaters....to keep it in the 80 degree range.

Is there a reason you didnt just move the old filter to the new tank? Or run your new filter on your old tank for a while to get it seeded? There is always a risk when transferring media that the bacteria wont survive the transfer and you will have some small spikes. I would add a little salt in case there is a nitrite spike.

Also...the fish at the top is probably just stressed by the move...I wouldnt worry about him much.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the advice GG.

The reason I didn't move the other heater was I thought the 200w would be good, I think it was rated up to 75g or maybe that was what the Jager was. I could add the other heater but wanted to just have one, the other one was for my 27g so it was maybe 150w.

Yeah I'm crossing my fingers when I run my tests tonight, I hope they all make it through. I'm just really pissed my big RB screwed his head up so bad. I hope it's not a habit of him scraping himself up all the time, cause I want to keep the tank decor in there.

it's nuts how attached I've become to these fish in such a short time, I'm going to take it so personal if I lose any of them.

we'll see...


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i'm sure everything will be fine, that gash on the big guy's head will be healed up in no time... natts are tough fish, so i would just add a bit of salt like gg said and keep an eye on your params, do some small water changes if necessary and get another heater


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Ok, just tested my water, here's what I got:

PH - 6.6
AMMONIA - 0.25-0.50 (that's not good)
NITRITE - 0
NITRATE - 40

Have not put any food into the tank yet. At this point should I do a water change or will that disrupt this mini-cyle that is occuring because I'm using the old water and all the old fiter media to seed this new tank?


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