# help help help



## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

my grassy plants are dying and I don't know why. can someone help?


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

Can you describe your setup in detail?What spiece of plant are you reffering too?


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

I don't even know what the plants are but they are grassy and are in packs. I'm pretty sure I have enough lighting. I didn't do anything with them so that might be a problem. I read somewhere about fertilizers. Would that help? or any other suggestions?

I have a 46g bowfront
I think 250watts flourescent lighting
Buncha plants, driftwood, black gravel mixed with sand
82 degrees water
2 AC500 filters. Penguin Powerhead
I think that's about it.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I can maybe help a little... 250w of light over a 46g... that is like 5wpg... serious lighting you have there.. are they power compact bulbs, or like T8's or T12's like you get at a hardware store? That makes a big difference. 
at any rate, you have alot of light, and no external source of CO2, and no fertilization. So your plant's growth-limiting factors are certainly lack of CO2 and lack of fertilizer. These must be "balanced" in your aquarium before you will see healthy, vigorously growing plants. (if you get fertilizer, your limiting factor will be CO2, and etc..)
I suggest limiting your lighting down to 1, or 1.5wpg (50-75w) and getting all low light plants if you don't want to fuss over it much.

However, if you want to keep your insane lighting for high light plants, you will *HAVE to either make a DIY CO2 system for your tank, and learn how to check the levels of that CO2 in your tank, or buy a pressurized system. The DIY yeast method is at times inconsistent, and kind of a pain in the neck.. and you will have to dose your tank with the proper nutrients to keep your plants fed, and they need to eat ALOT when you have alot of light, and enough CO2 present in your tank. 
I have been into this hobby for about 3 months, and I need to know alot more, but this much i know. You will have to deal with algea and stuff, but once you get it balanced, it should be minimal.


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I can maybe help a little... 250w of light over a 46g... that is like 5wpg... serious lighting you have there.. are they power compact bulbs, or like T8's or T12's like you get at a hardware store? That makes a big difference.
> at any rate, you have alot of light, and no external source of CO2, and no fertilization. So your plant's growth-limiting factors are certainly lack of CO2 and lack of fertilizer. These must be "balanced" in your aquarium before you will see healthy, vigorously growing plants. (if you get fertilizer, your limiting factor will be CO2, and etc..)
> I suggest limiting your lighting down to 1, or 1.5wpg (50-75w) and getting all low light plants if you don't want to fuss over it much.
> 
> ...


My lights are from the petstore. Those flourescent white lights. I have a question on CO2. How does CO2 produce by itself in a fish tank if it even does produce?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

jeddy hao said:


> My lights are from the petstore. Those flourescent white lights. I have a question on CO2. How does CO2 produce by itself in a fish tank if it even does produce?
> [snapback]1040269[/snapback]​


Hmm, The lights you have are not as powerful as a PC florescent setup, (they are most likely T-12's) but 5wpg is still alot. Well, to answer your question, the only way CO2 goes into your tank naturally is from fish respiration which is minimal, and water changes. And unfortunately, if you have alot of surface aggitation, it escapes. CO2 is unstable in water. It needs to be in contact with the water for as long as possible for it to diffuse adequately. (spelling LOL)

http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles/khp...khph_table.html -click this link to figure out your CO2 levels. You will need to get a pH and a KH test kit, found at most lfs's. This will show you how much you need to bring up your CO2 to "healthy for plants" levels

You will also need fertilizer, and alot of it.. It is expensive, so alot of us hobbyists buy off of http://www.gregwatson.com/categories.asp I suggest the PMDD pre-mix.. with my setup, http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=84726 , I have to also dose extra iron and phosphate for my tank to be healthy. You will just have to go for it and see what happens.

I hope I have helped you. I am not a pro, but I have been at it for 3 months.. my tank only has been the way it needs to be for 5 weeks or so. I still am battling a little algea, but things are going great as of lately. Let me know what you decide!


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## Blitz023 (Feb 19, 2004)

you have too much light and less CO2. is your tank full of algae?


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## jeddy hao (Mar 1, 2005)

Blitz023 said:


> you have too much light and less CO2. is your tank full of algae?
> [snapback]1040854[/snapback]​


For some reason, I have never had algae since I got the tank. I leave the lights on since 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. sometimes 2 a.m lol

Never had a problem with algae. Does that mean I have plenty of CO2?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

jeddy hao said:


> Blitz023 said:
> 
> 
> > you have too much light and less CO2. is your tank full of algae?
> ...


No, I am quite certain that you have way too little CO2 in your tank.


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Blitz023 said:


> you have too much light and less CO2. is your tank full of algae?





DiPpY eGgS said:


> Well, to answer your question, the only way CO2 goes into your tank naturally is from fish respiration which is minimal, and water changes. And unfortunately, if you have alot of surface aggitation, it escapes. CO2 is unstable in water. It needs to be in contact with the water for as long as possible for it to diffuse adequately.


Hi there Blitz and DiPpY eGgS,

Please note the following facts about CO2 and algae.

*CO2:*
The only way CO2 goes into your tank is NOT from the fish.
If you have a small amount of fish, the most important CO2 producers are the aerobic bacteria and lower animals like Plankton and Nematods through their respiration. Also plants themselves produce CO2 during night time.

CO2 does NOT escape through a surface agitation.
Instead a strong aeration will remove excess gases (compared to that of the air of aeration itself) from the water. You migth wan't to pay attention to the fact that CO2 is a heavy gas. It is heavier than any other gas of the air. Thus it will descend on any surface in the room, which means also the water surface of the aquarium. But the cover glass will hamper this. If you have more CO2 in the air of the room than in the aquarium, it will dissolve into the water. You will never have a zero level of CO2 in your aquarium.

*Algae*
Too much light with too little CO2 does NOT cause an algae bloom.
You might want to pay attention to the fact that also algae needs CO2 to grow.
Algae (there are many types of them) needs light and nutrition and CO2 to bloom.
If one of those is a scarce resource, then also algae will suffer. But remember that there will always be some CO2 in an aquarium. Some algae (brown) don't even need strong light situations.

Regards,


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

harrykaa,
to quote you..
"Too much light with too little CO2 does NOT cause an algae bloom."

With all respect, I differ with this statement. I know I am new to planted aquariums, but in my case, every time all aspects were not balanced in proportion, there was a bloom of some sort, or plant health decline, or death. In my case, hair algea was the result of low CO2 levels and high light.
This guy has 5wpg lighting, no CO2, and he never told us what he is feeding his plants. Seems to be an imbalance to me.
As far as his CO2 levels being balanced with his lighting, he should have at least 20, and up to 30ppm CO2, or remove about 3wpg. (See the pH, KH chart at the link in my previous post)
Any rate, he also needs to feed his plants phosphate, potassium nitrate, and micro nutrients with iron, if he wants them to live.
I am just trying to help this guy have healthy plants.. As far as CO2 escaping from surface aggitation, I'm not wanting to create an argument, but everyone I have talked to seems to agree that surface aggitation equals CO2 escape. Just pour a glass of pepsi. it is carbonated. The CO2 bubbles always rise to the surface and escape, no?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

"The only way CO2 goes into your tank is NOT from the fish."

respectfully, harrykaa, i disagree. What do fish exhale? I agree that it is minimal at best, but think about it. We exhale CO2, and so do fish. If I am wrong, that's ok.. LOL


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I couldn't resist... Do a little experiment with a bottle of pepsi to see if CO2 is unstable in water. Open a fresh bottle of it. 
Did it make a "PSSST" noise? That just may be the heavy gas CO2 that escaped from the drink and filled the space between the liquid and the cap.
Not sure, im no scientist


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

last post for the day, I promise








I'm not arguing Harrykaa, I am merely stating my personal experience on this matter...

"Algae (there are many types of them) needs light and nutrition and CO2 to bloom. If one of those is a scarce resource, then also algae will suffer."

Algae did not suffer in my aquarium when I let the phosphates and nitrates hit "0." in fact, just the opposite happened. The biggest breakout of green spot algae I had was when these nutrients were deficient. (0)
I will say though, in my case, I had an ammonia SPIKE that caused a green water bloom. NO4 was the only thing that when present in a slightly higher concentration than normal, that CAUSED algae in my tank, so i disagree with you again.

I believe it is the absence of nutrients that causes algae, with the exception of NO4. Including CO2. Especially with 5wpg.


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## piranha98 (Jun 15, 2005)

you can always do checks on ph and nitrate amoia good luckl


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