# Aquatiuc Plants Question!



## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I have two amazon swords and two other unknown plants and the ones on the right side of the tank seem to be doing good, but the other ones on the left side are really lacking in color. They seem to be turning into a light light light green color, or yellowish. The air stone is also on the left side of the tank, as well with the filter. Could this be causing the problem?

The things I'm thinking of doing are:

1. Leaving the lights on longer
2. Buying supplements to supplement their health (anyone have any they like to recommend?)
3. Trimming all the yellowy ones and hope the other ones get more light.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

We need to know more about your setup. What size of tank (dimensions too), what type and wattage of bulbs, and what for substrate? The unknown plants could be doing poorly because they may not be true aquatic plants...pics would help too.


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Also, we need to know what your water parameters are. Sound like a lack of nitrates.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I have normal pea sized substrate right now and I'm thinking of picking up Seachem Flourite tomorrow, hopefully that will help the plants. I don't know what kind of bulbs I have sorry, they came with the tank and I didn't really think I would need to know.

My parameters are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
pH: 7.2
Nitrate: 40ppm

What are your suggestions? Would the flourite help with the growth or do I need another supplement? I also heard that the air stone from my air pump can be eliminating the co2, should I take the air stone out?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

take the air stone out, it cant be helping. Also, pick up some fertilzer tablets from the fish store and put them next to the sword in the substrate. Swords are heavy root feeders, and they like medium light. So with the air stone out and root tabs in the substrate, you cant do much more with the setup you have. Maybe try some Flourish Excel, which is a liquid co2. If it dies, dont feel too bad, some plants just dont make it.

Flourite is great stuff, I have it in both of my tanks. Dont think that it will just magically grow plants though. So will it help, yes. Will it bring that sword back, I dont think it will. How are your other plants doing?


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

maknwar said:


> take the air stone out, it cant be helping. Also, pick up some fertilzer tablets from the fish store and put them next to the sword in the substrate. Swords are heavy root feeders, and they like medium light. So with the air stone out and root tabs in the substrate, you cant do much more with the setup you have. Maybe try some Flourish Excel, which is a liquid co2. If it dies, dont feel too bad, some plants just dont make it.
> 
> Flourite is great stuff, I have it in both of my tanks. Dont think that it will just magically grow plants though. So will it help, yes. Will it bring that sword back, I dont think it will. How are your other plants doing?


My other amazon sword on the right side (with no airstone) is doing pretty good. It's much more greener than the other one in the picture. I also have Excel and I put a cap in everyday. I'm going to pick up Seachem Flourite tomorrow and mix it in with my substrate and see what that can do.

As for the air stone, is it really needed? I don't have any other equipment that provides o2 aside from the plants. But when I was a kid, I had a couple of piranhas and they died because I didn't have an air stone in there. What should I do?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Some plants dont make it. I have 7 of the same type in my 125 and 2 of them are dying. They are grouped together, so I know its just the plants themselves.

What kind of filter do you have? HOB and canisters can provide surface agitation which will help with introducing o2 in the tank.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Remove the airstone as mentioned, but since you aren't injecting CO2, that isn't your main problem. Your filter should provide enough gas exchange...what is your filter?

I wouldn't worry about Fluorite at this point...pea gravel with root tabs will be more effective with swords. I'm going to give you some ideas so that you can run a low light setup on your tank based on the information given so far.

1) Keep your lights on 10hrs with a timer.
2) Put a root tab under each sword.
3) Keep dosing Fluorish Excel at up to twice the recommended daily amount.
4) Get some Fluorish Comprehensive for your stem plants and dose once a week.

I still need to know your tank size, fixture size, and wattage of bulbs. At least tell me if the bulb is a regular fluorescent, compact fluorescent, or T-5 and how many are in the fixture. A pic of the fixture could help if you have no clue. Depending on your light, the swords may always be pale. Is the good side of the tank closer to a window or other light source?


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I have an Aqueon that came with the aquarium, someone is coming over sometime next week and dropping off a Eheim 2028 Canister. So I'm going to put the air stone in the middle of the tank for now until I get the canister. My only concern is that the piranhas would die if the air stone is removed, or is it not a problem with my filter?

Can you get me a link to Flourish Comprehensive? I couldn't find it on Big Al's.

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to lightning. Would the information of this be written on the bulb itself? If so, I'll check tomorrow morning because it's a huge hassle for me to open it, especially at night!


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

jamezgt said:


> I'm a complete newbie when it comes to lightning. Would the information of this be written on the bulb itself? If so, I'll check tomorrow morning because it's a huge hassle for me to open it, especially at night!


Usually it is on the bulb...what does the bulb or bulbs look like? Describing it (length, shape, brand, etc..) will give me a pretty good idea. Still have no clue how big your tank is. If it is the light that came with the tank, then it is probably a regular single tube fluorescent strip that will be too low wattage to grow those swords well.


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## ryanimpreza (Jul 19, 2006)

depending on how much growth I would say # 3,,you have to prune swords to get good growth. It is hard to bring yourself to do so because it seems the plant has made a lot of progress in growth and the last thing you want to do is prune it to make it smaller, but in the long run it will grow better. If the plant is new and has very little growth then I would add supplements like IRON. and once again I will promote flourish tabs by the roots. The roots will actually grow around the tab,,,it sweet









I grow a lot of amazon swords. These plants are in a 2 foot tall tank to give you an idea on the size. It was hard for me to prune but they started taking off as soon as I did.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

ryanimpreza said:


> depending on how much growth I would say # 3,,you have to prune swords to get good growth. It is hard to bring yourself to do so because it seems the plant has made a lot of progress in growth and the last thing you want to do is prune it to make it smaller, but in the long run it will grow better. If the plant is new and has very little growth then I would add supplements like IRON. and once again I will promote flourish tabs by the roots. The roots will actually grow around the tab,,,it sweet


Good points...you actually won't need to dose iron though if you use root tabs.


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## ryanimpreza (Jul 19, 2006)

BioTeAcH said:


> depending on how much growth I would say # 3,,you have to prune swords to get good growth. It is hard to bring yourself to do so because it seems the plant has made a lot of progress in growth and the last thing you want to do is prune it to make it smaller, but in the long run it will grow better. If the plant is new and has very little growth then I would add supplements like IRON. and once again I will promote flourish tabs by the roots. The roots will actually grow around the tab,,,it sweet


Good points...you actually won't need to dose iron though if you use root tabs.
[/quote]
true no IRON is need if you tab it.

I dont see it anywhere but it could be in here,,how much light are you running.

after seeing your pic I would say it is not a pruning issue, try ferts until leaves start growing in the center of the plant then start pruning.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I found the old box for the lights. It's 18watts, T-8 & 36cm. No idea if that helps but it's the best I can do. I'm going to goto Big Al's tomorrow and see if they have another light in 36cm with a higher watts, or is that a bad idea? Is there any particular brand I should look for?

My list for tomorrow at Big Al's will look like this.

1. Substrate (Seachem Flourite)
2. Seachem Tablets
3. Seachem Flourish
4. Two new lights (36cm).

You guys said if I have tablets, I don't need a supplement that supplements iron correct? So theres no point of buying Flourish? Also, do I pop the tablet right beside the plant, or can I put it in the black container that came with the plant?


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## ryanimpreza (Jul 19, 2006)

jamezgt said:


> I found the old box for the lights. It's 18watts, T-8 & 36cm. No idea if that helps but it's the best I can do. I'm going to goto Big Al's tomorrow and see if they have another light in 36cm with a higher watts, or is that a bad idea? Is there any particular brand I should look for?
> 
> My list for tomorrow at Big Al's will look like this.
> 
> ...


try to get the lights around 1.5 watts per gallon. So if you have a 100 gallon tank you would need 150 watts of lighting.  watts of lighting / tank size =wpg. (corrected) if you go over 1.5 wpg you should run CO2. So if you are not planning to run CO2 then keep it below 1.5. Swords should do great with 1.5 wpg. CO2 I always suggest, it makes for healthy plant but at what cost do you want green and healthy plants.

take the plants out of the container

buy flourish tabs.I have tried them all and by far they are the best and last about 5 months.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

How big is your tank???


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

My tank is 85 gallons. So I'm guessing I should go with a 60 watts = 1.3 wpg.

What happens if my wpg is higher than 1.5? CO2 is needed? And are there any cons to leave the plants in the containers?


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

jamezgt said:


> My tank is 85 gallons. So I'm guessing I should go with a 60 watts = 1.3 wpg.
> 
> What happens if my wpg is higher than 1.5? CO2 is needed? And are there any cons to leave the plants in the containers?


Ryan had the formula backwards...it's watts/gallons. You need 85-130w.

How long is your tank?


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

BioTeAcH said:


> My tank is 85 gallons. So I'm guessing I should go with a 60 watts = 1.3 wpg.
> 
> What happens if my wpg is higher than 1.5? CO2 is needed? And are there any cons to leave the plants in the containers?


Ryan had the formula backwards...it's watts/gallons. You need 85-130w.

How long is your tank?
[/quote]

Whoops sorry. 75 Gallons.
Dimensions are:
20" H
12" W
48" L


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Alright...you have a few options then for lights. I'm assuming you have a fixture for each side of your tank? An 18w bulb is usually in a 20-24" fixture. BAsed on my calculations you have 2 18w bulbs which gives you 36w. You have two economical options...ditch those fixtures and get two of these 48" Coralife T-5 NO, or keep the old ones and use them with one of the T-5 fixtures for now. I love those fixtures!

Actually...if your tank is only 12" wide then it is a 55g...just get one of those fixtures and call it a day. You can ditch the old.

Remove the plants from their containers and put root tabs under them. Stick with your swords and cryptocorynes. The stem plants you have are fine too, but they don't need root tabs and will utilize the liquid Fluorish. I wouldn't bother with Fluorite...it is messy and wont do you much good unless you put it where your plants are. You are better off with the fert tabs.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I do have fixtures. If I do buy the Coralife, it's 48" and that's the length of my aquarium. Can I just buy two 36"cm 40-50 watt lights and it'll be the same? Or should I find a way to use the 48" light.

It could be 55gallons, but I was told it was 75 gallons. I included a picture just to confirm it with you guys.

As for the plants, if I do buy the flourite, I'm planing to mix it with my gravel right now, mostly in the places that I have plants. Do both tabs/clay substrate provide the same nutrients to the plants? If so, it's smartest to buy the tabs instead of the flourite.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

They don't make 40-50w bulbs for your fixtures...only 15-18w. I assume you have glass lids too? Even if you have the plastic lids with glass inserts, that other light will sit on top. Buy that 48" T-5 strip...you can buy the Fluorite and mix it in and it will help, but you're better off with the root tabs at this point IMO. Less mess and less hassle unless you start to go crazy with the plants. If that is the case you'll want to change out your whole substrate.

Looks like a 55g to me...if it is the dimensions you listed, then it is for sure.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I guess it's a 55gallon then, damn! The guy scammed me lol.

Anyways, I have two separate plastic lids, and I assume they're both 36cm. Are you telling me I can purchase the 48" and stick it from one end of the lid, to the other end? Because I don't think that's possible, I think I'm reading your statement wrong.

I was just thinking of going with two light bulbs, but like you said the highest they offer is 18wats for that size. Please clarify on what routes I can go from here. Sorry!


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## ryanimpreza (Jul 19, 2006)

BioTeAcH said:


> My tank is 85 gallons. So I'm guessing I should go with a 60 watts = 1.3 wpg.
> 
> What happens if my wpg is higher than 1.5? CO2 is needed? And are there any cons to leave the plants in the containers?


Ryan had the formula backwards...it's watts/gallons. You need 85-130w.

How long is your tank?
[/quote]
crap I did put that backwards. Thanks for the catch, good lookin out. I corrected that.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

jamezgt said:


> I guess it's a 55gallon then, damn! The guy scammed me lol.
> 
> Anyways, I have two separate plastic lids, and I assume they're both 36cm. Are you telling me I can purchase the 48" and stick it from one end of the lid, to the other end? Because I don't think that's possible, I think I'm reading your statement wrong.
> 
> I was just thinking of going with two light bulbs, but like you said the highest they offer is 18wats for that size. Please clarify on what routes I can go from here. Sorry!


You still should be able to run it from one side of the tank to the other...it can sit directly on the "windows" built into the hoods, but it won't fit "in" the windows. Those fixtures are very slim and light weight. If it were me, I'd get some glass lids though. They do sell 24" fixtures, but they will still probably overlap the windows and you will pay more for two of those rather than one of the 48". Better to use that money to get some glass lids!


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

Stick with the gravel, mixing in flourite will not only look bad but it will be a waste of money. I would do what bioteach says, get some glass lids. Then get a 48" light, and put some root tabs in the gravel. Flourish comprehensive, Flourish Excel and weekly water changes should be your daily and weekly routine.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

maknwar said:


> Stick with the gravel, mixing in flourite will not only look bad but it will be a waste of money. I would do what bioteach says, get some glass lids. Then get a 48" light, and put some root tabs in the gravel. Flourish comprehensive, Flourish Excel and weekly water changes should be your daily and weekly routine.


I went to Big Al's today and purchased Flourish Comprehensive, and I forgot to buy the tablets!!! I also picked up a bag of flourite and I'm still washing them (takes forever). I checked the prices for the 48" T5 lights that came with a fixture and it came up to be $200.00, does that sound right?

Where can I buy glass lids?


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## maknwar (Jul 16, 2007)

what kind of light was it? Brand name and model and is that canadian dollars? You should be able to pick up glass lids at any fish store.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

It was Nova Extreme I believe, or Coralife. 48" 85 watts and it came with a fixture. It was $199.99 CAD. Sound fair?

Also, are there different type of glass lids? Are they just a sheet of glass or are they customized...


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