# Brown algea...



## PaNo617 (Jan 31, 2005)

Hey guys, I have a question. I have read about this before, i think on other forums but i dont think i ever saw a real solution to this problem. I really dont get it that bad, but i'll always get brown algea on the sand and very little on the glass. I did my usual 35% water change and i also cleaned the glass, powerhead, heater etc. I also stired the sand area where there was brown algea. less then 24 hours later it was back on the sand again. Not really a big problem but it looks pretty ugly. I usually do 35% water changes every 6 days. If i have time maybe 30% every 5 days. What could be causing this and how do i get rid of it??


----------



## steve2 (Dec 23, 2003)

You need more light. It is the easy to get rid of.


----------



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Pano617 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question. I have read about this before, i think on other forums but i dont think i ever saw a real solution to this problem. I really dont get it that bad, but i'll always get brown algea on the sand and very little on the glass. I did my usual 35% water change and i also cleaned the glass, powerhead, heater etc. I also stired the sand area where there was brown algea. less then 24 hours later it was back on the sand again. Not really a big problem but it looks pretty ugly. I usually do 35% water changes every 6 days. If i have time maybe 30% every 5 days. What could be causing this and how do i get rid of it??


Pano617,

A picture would help. I assume you are talking about brown colored, benthic Diatoms (Bacillariophyta) or possibly Golden algae (Chrysophyta) and not really Brown algae (Phaeophyta).
These will normally appear on the glasses, on the rocks on the wood or on the sand/gravel.
These are unicellular. You see this when removing they will form a cloud.

Actually Diatoms and Chrysophyta can grow well in a low light environment. Other algae usually outcompete them in stronger light. Diatoms also need silicates in order to bloom (new set tanks).

A good way is to thoroughly siphon the sand and at the same suck the detached algae cloud from the tank.

Regards,


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

I there a chemical you can add? I have the same proble, AND I bought a UV filter that I thougth for some reason would help this. It looks like little brown hairs gorwing all over. Very unsightly. I am trying to get rid of it for weeks. I have Java furns, and 7 piranhas in a 120 gal. 2 "hang over the back" filters as well.


----------



## Morpheus (Feb 12, 2004)

I used to have loads of brown algae all over the glass and plants. I found out that the PH buffer I used was a phosphate buffer and my tank was about 10ppm of Phosphate. After I switched to a non-phosphate buffer the brown algae went away.


----------



## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Nice to know!


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

Morpheus said:


> I used to have loads of brown algae all over the glass and plants. I found out that the PH buffer I used was a phosphate buffer and my tank was about 10ppm of Phosphate. After I switched to a non-phosphate buffer the brown algae went away.


Waht IS a phosphate buffer?...?


----------



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

JYUB said:


> Waht IS a phosphate buffer?...?


It means a water pH buffer which contains phosphates (PO4) as salt.

A buffer is a combination of a weak acid and its salt or a weak base and its salt.

Bicarbonates are important and good basic pH buffers in aquariums. A bicarbonate buffer contains carbonic acid (H2CO3), bicarbonate ions (HCO3) and carbonate ions (CO3). This maintains pH in the range of 8.0 (+/- 0.5).

Phosphate buffer is a common acidic buffer in a pH range 6.86 (+/- 1). It contains dihydrogen phosphate (H2PO4), hydrogen phosphate (HPO4) and phosphate (PO4) ions.

Buffering capacity means ability of water to hold against rapid pH changes. A buffer is made of a combination of a weak acid and its salt or a weak base and its salt.

Regards,


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

Well I just did 2 water changes, and took out the Oscars, so far itz VERY clean....

that might have done it!


----------



## PaNo617 (Jan 31, 2005)

harrykaa said:


> Hey guys, I have a question. I have read about this before, i think on other forums but i dont think i ever saw a real solution to this problem. I really dont get it that bad, but i'll always get brown algea on the sand and very little on the glass. I did my usual 35% water change and i also cleaned the glass, powerhead, heater etc. I also stired the sand area where there was brown algea. less then 24 hours later it was back on the sand again. Not really a big problem but it looks pretty ugly. I usually do 35% water changes every 6 days. If i have time maybe 30% every 5 days. What could be causing this and how do i get rid of it??


Pano617,

A picture would help. I assume you are talking about brown colored, benthic Diatoms (Bacillariophyta) or possibly Golden algae (Chrysophyta) and not really Brown algae (Phaeophyta).
These will normally appear on the glasses, on the rocks on the wood or on the sand/gravel.
These are unicellular. You see this when removing they will form a cloud.

Actually Diatoms and Chrysophyta can grow well in a low light environment. Other algae usually outcompete them in stronger light. Diatoms also need silicates in order to bloom (new set tanks).

A good way is to thoroughly siphon the sand and at the same suck the detached algae cloud from the tank.

Regards,
[/quote]

I think this is the kind of algea i have. There a good amount on the sand. I thought it was the low loight, but now that i have more light its just as bad, if not worse. I guess i'll try the syphon...


----------



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Pano617 said:


> I think this is the kind of algea i have. There a good amount on the sand. I thought it was the low loight, but now that i have more light its just as bad, if not worse. I guess i'll try the syphon...


Yes do that and try to lower the concentrations of NO3 (nitrates) and PO4 (phosphates) too. That means regular water changes.

The fact that some algea (Diatoms and Red algae) can do well in low light conditions does not mean that they die in stronger light conditions. It is just that other algea (like Green algae) have better to chances to outcompete them. Also higher plants grow better in stonger light, of course, but if you have plenty of nutrients, all the algae do also well in strong light.

A point to notice is also that bulbs meant for aquatic photosynthesis (like AquaStar) that have a color temperature of 10.000 or even more, do not encourage algae growth. This is due to the fact these bulbs do not emit yellow-green light, which is important for almost all the algae.

Regards,


----------



## PaNo617 (Jan 31, 2005)

harrykaa said:


> I think this is the kind of algea i have. There a good amount on the sand. I thought it was the low loight, but now that i have more light its just as bad, if not worse. I guess i'll try the syphon...


Yes do that and try to lower the concentrations of NO3 (nitrates) and PO4 (phosphates) too. That means regular water changes.

The fact that some algea (Diatoms and Red algae) can do well in low light conditions does not mean that they die in stronger light conditions. It is just that other algea (like Green algae) have better to chances to outcompete them. Also higher plants grow better in stonger light, of course, but if you have plenty of nutrients, all the algae do also well in strong light.

A point to notice is also that bulbs meant for aquatic photosynthesis (like AquaStar) that have a color temperature of 10.000 or even more, do not encourage algae growth. This is due to the fact these bulbs do not emit yellow-green light, which is important for almost all the algae.

Regards,
[/quote]

I do 35% water change every 5-6 days. Water quality is fine. But since you mentioned it, i'll test my water too. I never really had this problem. It was there but very little, now it seems to be spreading. I'll be doing a water change tonight. I'll get a syphon and clean the sand.


----------



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

harrykaa said:


> I think this is the kind of algea i have. There a good amount on the sand. I thought it was the low loight, but now that i have more light its just as bad, if not worse. I guess i'll try the syphon...


Yes do that and try to lower the concentrations of NO3 (nitrates) and PO4 (phosphates) too. That means regular water changes.

The fact that some algea (Diatoms and Red algae) can do well in low light conditions does not mean that they die in stronger light conditions. It is just that other algea (like Green algae) have better to chances to outcompete them. Also higher plants grow better in stonger light, of course, but if you have plenty of nutrients, all the algae do also well in strong light.

*A point to notice is also that bulbs meant for aquatic photosynthesis (like AquaStar) that have a color temperature of 10.000 or even more, do not encourage algae growth. This is due to the fact these bulbs do not emit yellow-green light, which is important for almost all the algae.
*
Regards,
[/quote]

Is this true with the diatoms as well, the brown algae?????

I tell you what I do plenty of water changes and this stuff has always been my worst nightmare, low light, high light, glass scrub, suck the cloudy water out while doing this, and still brown algae....


----------



## PaNo617 (Jan 31, 2005)

mashunter18 said:


> I think this is the kind of algea i have. There a good amount on the sand. I thought it was the low loight, but now that i have more light its just as bad, if not worse. I guess i'll try the syphon...


Yes do that and try to lower the concentrations of NO3 (nitrates) and PO4 (phosphates) too. That means regular water changes.

The fact that some algea (Diatoms and Red algae) can do well in low light conditions does not mean that they die in stronger light conditions. It is just that other algea (like Green algae) have better to chances to outcompete them. Also higher plants grow better in stonger light, of course, but if you have plenty of nutrients, all the algae do also well in strong light.

*A point to notice is also that bulbs meant for aquatic photosynthesis (like AquaStar) that have a color temperature of 10.000 or even more, do not encourage algae growth. This is due to the fact these bulbs do not emit yellow-green light, which is important for almost all the algae.
*
Regards,
[/quote]

Is this true with the diatoms as well, the brown algae?????

I tell you what I do plenty of water changes and this stuff has always been my worst nightmare, low light, high light, glass scrub, suck the cloudy water out while doing this, and still brown algae....
[/quote]

Actually i also had this "brown algea" problem when i was keeping brackish water fish in the same tank, but while i was converting it to freshwater i did several 35% water changes every other day and it really cleaned it up. the brown algea was gone for a good amount of time, but now its back. I might try a few water changes this week...


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

also I added a 1/4 cup of sea salt to my 125 gallon, thatkilled the unwanted sand fleas, and snails. I thin this also helped get rid of the algae?


----------



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

mashunter18 said:


> Is this true with the diatoms as well, the brown algae?????
> 
> I tell you what I do plenty of water changes and this stuff has always been my worst nightmare, low light, high light, glass scrub, suck the cloudy water out while doing this, and still brown algae....


Diatoms (Bacillariophyta) are not any more considered as being brown algae. Brown algae (Phaeophyta) are marine, multicellular and usually plant-like, big algae.
Still Diatoms have some things common with the Brown algae and with the Golden algae: all the three groups are Heterokonts (Chromista). Their chloroplasts have four membranes. Heterokonts do not produce starch from glucose like Green algae or Red algae and higher plants. Instead, they produce laminarin from glucose and mannitol.

Diatoms have a distinctive cell wall of silicate, frustules. They typically bloom in favourable conditions when silicon and phosphates are present. Blooming also disappears as quickly as it has formed.

Anyway, the light requirements of Diatoms are due to their pigment fucoxanthin and chlorophyll a and c. As they have this brownish pigment (fucoxanthin), they can use also blue light. So it is true that 10.000 - 18.000 K aquatic photosynthesis bulbs do not prohibit their growth as much as they do for the Green algae.

Regards,


----------



## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Iv just never been able to get rid of the stuff, I do 30-50% water change 3 times a week, had different lighting......

Iv never done a silicate or phosephate test but my nitrates have always been decent.

Iv read all about diatoms heard all the ways to get rid of it, but nothing works for me, I get zero green algae in all my tanks but the brown always shows up.

I had considered some of my bio media being silicate based scinted glass rings, but you know what I get the brown algae in fry tanks with none of these rings and just sponge filters...

Wish someone could tell me something else to try, I dont buy that it is my lighting, or phosphate levels.....


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its official, I caN NOT get rid of it!!! Its making me flippin crazay.

I added more salt, this seemed to help a little. My tank is crystal clear after changing 100 gallons of water 2x in the past week. But I have little brown blooms again!

I am ready to get a undergravel system.

I think my filtration is not helping. (emperor hang-ons) 75 gallon setups (x2) HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!

My setup is as follows:

-semi hard water, with a cup of salt (extracted sea salt)
-125 gallon
-lots of cured/well treated dead wood
-sword tail plants x6
-organic rock/all cured with some lava rock ( i am in hawaii)

I understand this IS brown algae, not red.

also now my P's are not eating!?


----------



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

JYUB said:


> Its official, I caN NOT get rid of it!!! Its making me flippin crazay.
> My setup is as follows:
> -semi hard water, with a cup of salt (extracted sea salt)
> -125 gallon
> ...


JYUB,

Yes I think (as I don't have a photo to make sure) you have Diatoms (Bacillariophyta), so not exactly Brown algae, but ligth brown colored algae.
Benthic Diatoms appear on the rocks, driftwood and on the gravel too. They are unicellular and easy to remove. As you wipe them off from lets say a driftwood, they just form a cell cloud in the water. If this is familiar to you then keep on reading ...

(on the other hand if you have different kind of algae, please specify more)

In the nature, Diatoms are very important part of the water ecosystems. They are the main part of the plankton, which is the basis of all the sea life.

Diatoms appear fast in aquariums. Unicellular algae cannot be wiped off 100 %. So there is always left lets say millions of cells and they grow back quickly after cleaning. Of course you still should remove them from the rocks and driftwood and from the gravel. The best way is to siphon the gravel (not only the surface), then lift the rocks and wood and wash them separately with hot water to kill the algae.

You said you did 2 big water changes (2 x 100 gallons out of 125 gallons). I think that was too much. Your water parameters are now the same as that of your tap water and that might be another problem (fishes are not happy with possible burns on the gills etc.). As a first remedy do the following as soon as possible (if you haven't already done so):
1) Put water conditioner in to the tank (something that removes both chlorine and chloramine plus possibly something that contains B1 vitamin (thiamine) and perhaps Aloe Vera. For example use Tetra AquaSafe (American product version) or Waterlife Haloex.
2) Put black water extract to soften the water and to set the pH. For example use Tetra ToruMin or Waterlife Humaquat.

So now we need to know some water parameters from your tank.
Post us the following: pH, NH3/NH4 (ammonium), NO2/NO3 (nitrites, nitrates).

The Diatoms do not need strong light to survive and to grow. All they need is some bacterial activity on the waste material. To grow fast (blooming of the planktonik Diatoms) they need silicates (SiO4). These are sometimes abundant in new aqauriums. Silicates are important nutrients in water ecosystems (in addition to nitrates and phosphates). Also remember that some tap water systems contain silicates as well.

Regards,


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

WOW, yup thats EXACTLY what it is.

I am working on the other water params, but the PH is 7. The conditioner, I added with the water.

Trying to clean the filters right now, I'll post more soon, THANKS A MILLION.


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

well, its stayed away for 3 days now, just waiting to see if it blooms again...

ralph.


----------



## JYUB (Dec 19, 2003)

ok, I WAS doing a little too much water replacement, on the water changes....

update,

ALL MY BROWN blumes are GONE. I left for a week to go to seattle, now that I am back, and I did not do any water changing in 2 weeks now, th tank looks crystal clear, and all P's are happy.

So its to my conclusion that these new changes are from a more cycled tank since I changed the water TOO much in the first place, with hard water without neutralizer I now see how cilicates could do this.

No wonder.


----------



## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

JYUB said:


> ALL MY BROWN blumes are GONE. I left for a week to go to seattle, now that I am back, and I did not do any water changing in 2 weeks now, th tank looks crystal clear, and all P's are happy.
> So its to my conclusion that these new changes are from a more cycled tank since I changed the water TOO much in the first place, with hard water without neutralizer I now see how cilicates could do this. No wonder.


JYUB,

Yes, good to know this.

Often very frequent and big water changes (lets say more than 20-30 % / week) tend to upset the water parameters balance in the tank and make it more difficult to combat the algae. If new water (tap water) is not very suitable or is very different from tank water, the problem will be even worse.
You have now proved this to be true.

Regards,


----------

