# Knocking glass before feeding



## CHI (Apr 29, 2003)

i'm sure anyone whos been to college has read about this in their psych class.... and maybe even read about this in some of the threads in the forum... i was just wondering how many ppl do this .... or what you guyz think about it..


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

It might work over time, but knocking on glass will stress out any fish!
The knocking sends shock waves/vibrations through the water, which are picked up by the fish's. each time such a wave is picked up, it will cause a unvoluntary response (which is a defense mechanism in the wild).
That's why fish always seem to spazz out when you tap the glass - over time it may cause a lot of stress...

Instead of tapping the glass, try feeding from the same bowl each and every time, or around the same time each day (I used to feed my reds always around 10 pm), etc.
These things will also be associated with food over time....


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

I am a psych major so yes i have heard about many example of classical conditioning and operant conditioning. with fish, since they really aren't capable of learning, you'd have to rely on classical conditiong. In your case with the tapping on the glass this is what your scenario would look like:

food -----------------------------------> shoaling/feeding behavior
(unconditioned stimulus) (unconditioned response)

tapping on glass---------------> no response
(neutral stimulus)

tapping + food -----------------> shoaling/feeding behavior
(NS + US) (UR)

tapping ----------------------------> shoaling/feeding behavior
(conditioned stimulus) (conditioned response)

As to whether this will work, I am not sure but feel free to try and let us know how it goes. make sure to keep records of the days and remember that Short Delay Conditioning is the best way to achieve classical conditioning.

Joe


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## rUBY84 (Jan 8, 2004)

Its kinda like the whole Pavlov (sp?) - dog and bell study. He would ring a bell just before he fed it and pretty soon the dog was conditioned so that all it took was the bell ringing to make it salivate.., i think thats how it went. 
It might work, but I was taught that tapping on the glass pisses fish off... all the signs at the pet store "DON'T TAP ON GLASS"








With my bfs p's all it takes is the sound of the lid being opened and they find they food right away - same goes with my cons.


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## CHI (Apr 29, 2003)

i've read in some thread replies that ppl have tried this and has worked.... are u guyz just lying?!?!?...... whos actually done this


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

I wear a bright yellow slicker everytime I feed my p's. I have just started but my elong has already started to respond. Whenever I go by the tank with a yellow color he will swim frantically at the top for food. I got the idea from somebody I know down at tropicalfisn.net in San Diego and he swears by it.


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## Novato (Jan 25, 2004)

Cool SLANTED! I am going to try it. I think its better than tapping on the glass and stressing the fish. CHI I think you should try this method , too. so you won't stress your P's even if that tapping method was working.


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## CHI (Apr 29, 2003)

how about showing them a big piece of red paper everytime i feed them.... this would be less trouble then changing my clothes everytime right? and probably more effective too cause i can make sure they see it..


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

Well, my yellow slicker is just like a big jacket so it goes over my clothes, so it's not really a hassle. The guy I know wears a bright yellow t-shirt. Never heard of using a piece of paper but I guess the principle is the same.

You just have to be careful. I'm a big Laker fan and if I wear my Laker gold near my tanks, my p's think they're getting fed.


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## Void (Aug 24, 2003)

i think it was mr harley that said he does this and it works perfectly.. cant remember what post it was its not to old but anyway i think i might try it

that or just get em use to feeding when my lights switch from daytime to nighttime


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## Banshee350yfz (Feb 5, 2004)

fish not capable of learning, hmmm :rock: , i t worked for my chilids, the only reaction i got was them rushing to the surface to eat, i don't think rushing to the surface and greedily eating is a sign of stress.


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## soulfly (Aug 7, 2003)

I did it all the time with my cichlids. A quick tap on the glass and they would all pop out of their pots n whatnot for food. Never tried it w/Ps tho.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

Void said:


> i think it was mr harley that said he does this and it works perfectly.. cant remember what post it was its not to old but anyway i think i might try it
> 
> that or just get em use to feeding when my lights switch from daytime to nighttime


 You would be correct , But now since I read Judazz previous post above I have stopped doing it ......
It takes them a little while longer to start swirling around but i dont care , they know food is in the tank........I just dont want to harm them with the sound waves


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## scarfish (Apr 5, 2003)

I don't think that will work for piranhas. I do not think they will forego their naturally skittish behavior because they know that food is near. They will probably always flip out, no matter what type of conditioning.


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## CHI (Apr 29, 2003)

i don't think the sound waves would hurt them, only stress them out if they weren't use to it.. but once they are use to it , it should not stress them at all


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## STIFFY (Jul 9, 2003)

I dont have to tap on the glass or feed on a regular sched. I just drop food in the tank and they go crazy


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

CHI said:


> i don't think the sound waves would hurt them, only stress them out if they weren't use to it.. but once they are use to it , it should not stress them at all


 It does stress them, and they won't get used to it because we're talking about an unvoluntary response here - as soon as the "shock" waves hit the fish's lateral line, the changes in pressure are registered by nerve ends, which cause spontaneous muscle contractions (that's why fish make such erratic/random movements when you tap the glass - in the wild, this movement is often the difference between life and death when being hunted by predators [think of a king fisher bird attacking a fish - it happens too fast for a fish to act based on his observations]).

It all happens purely unconsciously, so fish will not get used to it....
Like I (and other people) said, there's other ways to condition piranha's, some of which have proven to be quite effective.
But do as you please: it's your fish...


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

dont need to soon as the food hit the water they know its there


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