# Cloudy water



## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Ok so i have a 180 gallon tank and it has been cycled and all that good stuff. Have had 5 piranhas in there for about 3 months now, and had 3 ac500s running on it because i was waiting for my fx5. Well about 10 days ago i got my fx5 and put it on my tank and took one of the ac500's off. Well ever since, my water has been reallly cloudy so i tested my water and had high nitrates and ive done like 3 %50 water changes in the last week and it hasnt helped much with the cloudiness nor the nitrates.


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

It sounds to me that the FX5 should be going through its own stages of establishing the correct microbial floura. What seems a little puzzling is you should be getting high nitrites if its not completely cycled yet. High nitrates would indicate that it is cycled and oxidizing a heavy bio-load. If that's the case you'll need to do larger volume water changes and more often. That should take care of the turbidity as well.

It could have been a perturbation from cutting the biological filtration capacity by 1/3 for 10 days while the FX5 became established.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Thats alot to take in and try to understand lol, anyone else want to elaborate?


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## rolly_169 (Jul 23, 2007)

blazednosferatu said:


> Thats alot to take in and try to understand lol, anyone else want to elaborate?


the bacteria in your filter changes ammonia into nitrite and then into nitrate which stays in the water until you change it or a plant consumes it. if you remove one of your filters you dont have as much nitrifying bacteria so boilogical filtration wont be as quick until your FX5 builds its own bacterial culture. possibly clouding your water.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Test for ammonia and nitrites. If they are both zero, than its your high nitrates and/or possibly something rotting in the gravel or filter/s.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

My water is still really cloudy, how many water changes should i be doing? I do %50 water changes, but how often. How long will it take for my fx5 to get the benificial bacteria and make my water better?


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Anybody??


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## RbpPower (Oct 30, 2007)

It sounds like your tank is going through a "mini" cycle. From my experience, water changes wont really clear up the tank. I would just let it sit for a couple of days so your fx5 can build up its bacteria colony. You could also try adding cycle or stress zyme to help speed up the cycle process. Another thing that can speed up the cycle process is adding a used filter media pack to the tank, i use this method when starting a new tank. Another thing that could affect your the cloudyness is gravel vacuming to much gravel at one time . The benificial bacteria also live in the gravel of your tank so gravel vacuming to much can take out a lot of the bacteria causing your tank to go through a "mini" cycle. As for how long it will take, i would guess anywhere from 4-7 days, thats how long it took for my xp3s.

hope this helps =]


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Well i just got home again and was in my room, well i looked over at my tank after doing a water change earlier today and see one of my piranhas half aten so i took him out and he was still alive so i put him in the freezer to die quicker....


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

umm help?


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

What the hell! You're not gonna eat your fish and they probably won't live for 30 years, and if they did they probably wouldn't develop cancer so maybe you should use that flocculating product that another member used on the Water Chemistry Forum that contains small amounts of formaldehyde and methanol to clear the problem once and for all. Its only one drop per gallon then you can do water changes to remove the chemicals once the water clears. It looks like you need to perform some relatively benign chemo here. It will be a dilute 2 day environmental insult to the fish.


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## viralmouser (Apr 28, 2007)

sounds like you might need to resort to chemicals for this.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

shanker said:


> What the hell! You're not gonna eat your fish and they probably won't live for 30 years, and if they did they probably wouldn't develop cancer so maybe you should use that flocculating product that another member used on the Water Chemistry Forum that contains small amounts of formaldehyde and methanol to clear the problem once and for all. Its only one drop per gallon then you can do water changes to remove the chemicals once the water clears. It looks like you need to perform some relatively benign chemo here. It will be a dilute 2 day environmental insult to the fish.


I didnt understand one word of your post... sorry


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

blazednosferatu said:


> What the hell! You're not gonna eat your fish and they probably won't live for 30 years, and if they did they probably wouldn't develop cancer so maybe you should use that flocculating product that another member used on the Water Chemistry Forum that contains small amounts of formaldehyde and methanol to clear the problem once and for all. Its only one drop per gallon then you can do water changes to remove the chemicals once the water clears. It looks like you need to perform some relatively benign chemo here. It will be a dilute 2 day environmental insult to the fish.


I didnt understand one word of your post... sorry
[/quote]

Buy that Crystal Clear stuff from the LPS. The stuff contains small amounts of formaldehyde and methanol but you only add like one drop per gallon and it should clear up your tank within a day. Then you could do a water change if you're worried about the chemicals.


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## notaverage (Sep 10, 2005)

What the hell? 
This thread isnt making sense to me? Maybe the jack and cokes and now the Sammy Adams.

I don't know but.. sorry you lost 1 
Get the water clear man. I dealt with that for a few weeks off and on months ago and I couldn't figure it out. I think it was the fact that I had large rocks as substrate which trapped a TON of sh*t and I had changed it to smaller substrate that wouldn't let the debris fall into as much and it was easier to clean and has been CRYSTAL CLEAR ever since.

GOOD LUCK!


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

So anyways, do you guys think its a mini cycle? Im really concerned because its been cloudy like this for a couple weeks, i didnt change the water for the last week and it got way too cloudy so im doing a %50 water change today. Before that i was doing %50 water changes every 3 days to keep it half way clear...


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

blazednosferatu said:


> So anyways, do you guys think its a mini cycle? Im really concerned because its been cloudy like this for a couple weeks, i didnt change the water for the last week and it got way too cloudy so im doing a %50 water change today. Before that i was doing %50 water changes every 3 days to keep it half way clear...


You could be patient and wait it out another 2 or 3 weeks to ensure it isn't a cycle going on in your new filter. At that point if it is still cloudy after a 50% water change buy that Crystal Clear stuff for less than 2 bucks. If you do wait it out and it clears up on its own with water changes, I don't know about other people on this thread, but I will be learning something new.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

sounds simple but have you thourouglyvacumes your gavel for rotting debris (you said you did water changes but neer a gravel vac


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes i vac the gravel very well. I dont think i want it to sit for 2-3 weeks without a water change because it will be like milk white then and i worry for my piranhas health in there...


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

If its related to adding the new filter to the tank maybe something in the media is defective like pulverized ammo-chips or whatever you are using for chemical filtration. I'm presuming the cloud is white.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes, its white. All i have in my fx5 is filter floss in the bottom basket, the middle is empty, and the top basket has those black star type things. Anyways, should i just leave it and do no water changes or should i try to get that clear water stuff and add it because it sounds like its in its cycle and i dont know what water clear stuff would do to help


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## piranawick (Dec 1, 2004)

I would add some carbon in the middle of that FX5 It should help clear the water....dont resort to chemicals yet...That crystal clear junk is like setting off a nuclear bomb in your tank.......try carbon it should work.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Alright, ill try getting a package of carbon and put it in the middle basket then. But i really dont think carbon will clear the water but idk its worth a shot!


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

Get one of the Vortex Diatom Filters for about 90 bucks to handle the water polishing tasks and you'll never have cloudy water again. I'm thinking of combining the bulk mechanical filtration of the AC500 (They also have good surface area in the sponge for biological filtration) with the water polishing ability of the Diatom Filter and the biological filtration of a Fluidized Bed Filter once I get a 300 gallon acrylic aquarium next November. My heart is set on a 600 gallon acrylic but I think I'm biting off more than I can chew.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Idk about all that, i think its just going through a cycle


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Well i let it sit without cleaning and it got so cloudy i couldnt see my fish so i did a %50 water change last night and noticed these really thin lil white worms squigling around


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

Those worms if flat are the planaria or I think they could be nematodes if they have a round cross section. Your cloudiness problem is puzzling me but more water changes might get rid of the worms and if that doesn't work a complete overhaul of the tank and starting the cycle over again. Maybe it will take care of the Andromeda Strain that is clouding your tank.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Well does anyone have any suggestions. Im thinking about moving the 4 of them to my 75 gallon for about a month and just let the 180 go through the cycle. I know its crowded for the 75g but idk what else to do


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Come on now, no help?


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

Post your water params....

Do you know if it's going through a cycle for sure?

You shouldn't need to resort to Carbon to have a clear tank....


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

No i dont know for sure whether its in a cycle again or not, but it sure seems like it cuz i dont know what else it would be. Ill post my water params in a little bit and the water was changed %50 2 days ago.


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## scotty (Oct 3, 2007)

maybe its O2 saturation i have so many tiny bubbles that my water kinda looks cloudy


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

blazednosferatu said:


> No i dont know for sure whether its in a cycle again or not, but it sure seems like it cuz i dont know what else it would be. Ill post my water params in a little bit and the water was changed %50 2 days ago.


From the sounds of things in this thread (which is really messed up-lol) you have an established tank with established filtration... you removed one of the ac's and added an unestablished fx5....You need to sort out your filtration it sounds like to me-----By this I mean it sounds as if things are not setup properly in you fx5....

Sounds to me once this gets set up properly and established-Your problems should be very minmal...
But I did get auwfully confused reading this thread-so maybe I missed understood something..

The planeria is most likely from over feeding or poor gravel vacs....


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

You got everything right man, you understood it correctly. But what did i do wrong about setting up the fx5, or is it just that strong to start another cycle since it was an unestablished filter?

o and are the planaria bad? If so what should about them?


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

blazednosferatu said:


> You got everything right man, you understood it correctly. But what did i do wrong about setting up the fx5, or is it just that strong to start another cycle since it was an unestablished filter?
> 
> o and are the planaria bad? If so what should about them?


You need to setup your filtration for more of a bio load than mechanical from the sounds of it----
You stated that you have stars in the upper-Nothing in the middle and filter floss in the bottom-

I Suggest ne thing from ehiem(buts it's pricey) for bio filtration.Other than that rena makes some good products also....Like them chem stars...But they are bulky and cost a fortune also... Sounds to me once you get that sorted out-You problems would be minimal if none at all...

Are you still useing the Ac's also....

Planeria isn't that bad-Looks worse than what it really is....Just keep up on water changes and make sure you are doing a good gravel vac....Make sure all uneaten foods are taken out-People leave their food in for way to long for my likeings.....I say if it isn't eaten right away-they were not hungry enough.....


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Well i ended up moving my 4 piranhas from the 180 to my 75 and now the 180 has cleared up and only took like 3 weeks. SO was it just that it needed to cycle again because the fx5 was overpowering or what? I was doing water changes every 5 days %50 and it was still cloudy so thats why i moved them and it cleared up finally


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

????


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Since you removed the fish from the 180 and plan to put them back in you will run into the same problem until your filter catches up to the bio load.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Its clear though, should i do some water tests and tell you my readings or what? I put one piranha in there and hes doing fine and the tank seems to get better everyday. Or are you suggesting i put some cheap fish in with him so make sure it gets a little dirty from their fieces? I just dont want to add my other 4 in the 180 until i know its totally safe


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

bump


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

Shanker was right in his first post. You should have kept all of your AC's runnung, because you apparently had barely enough filtration in the first place. You cut your bio filtration by 33%.

You should have bacteria established in your FX5 by now, but all of your filters will have to catch up to the extra load placed on them when you reintroduce your fish as Dr. Giggles stated. You should be safe if you reduce feedings for a couple of weeks.


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

Interesting, I think it is funny so many people put the blame on poor gravel vac-ing.
The white bacterial blooms are almost always brought on by an increase in bio load,
power failures, over vac-ing your gravel, and feeders that release tons of oils and proteins into the water upon being eaten.
In effect it is a mini cycle with no Ammonia seeing that the bacteria that can be seen in the water is eating it all up a long with the proteins suspended in the water.
Nitrites tend to rise to a detectable level but rarely stay up long or go high enough to cause a problem.
Seeing a nitrate spike in as little as 24 to 48 hours after a water change is quite common seeing that the tanks bio filtration is working overtime to rebalance the tank.
I have stopped vac-ing deeper than a 1/4" into my gravel, and found that water polishing filter media,
will help avoid and remedy the problem.
Also adding scavenger type fish like catfish and loaches to help keep the feeder scraps to a minimum. 
As a secondary note about the polishing filter media, it will need to be replaced or cleaned daily if being used to help clear up a cloudy tank.

One last thing I have noticed that in my single fish serra tanks that even just a large messy feeding will bring on a little bit of this on.
It tends to clear in several hours all by it's self.
So while unsightly it appears to be what some may consider a natural effect of functional bio filtration.

One last thing is you could use a UV filter to clear up the bacteria but they are there for a reason and serving a purpose so I do not recommend this.

Greg


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## viralmouser (Apr 28, 2007)

^^^ good stuff...


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks, im going to to a water test for ammonia, nitrites,nitrates, and ph. Do u sugeest i add my other for back in with my one in the 180?


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

blazednosferatu said:


> Thanks, im going to to a water test for ammonia, nitrites,nitrates, and ph. Do u sugeest i add my other for back in with my one in the 180?


That all depends on how your water test comes out!
You should most likely ease the fish back into the tank meaning one or two at a time.
Remember adding a sh*t load of fish may just bring on a second bio bloom.
Which is not a bad thing as long as you can keep the nitrates down to a level your 
fish are comfortable with.
I think the dead fish you came home too where the result of the fish being exposed to far too high of a trate level.
Good luck Bro!

Greg


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

> I think the dead fish you came home too where the result of the fish being exposed to far too high of a trate level.


Exactly. The cloudy water is caused by free-floating bacteria consuming the exrtra ammonia in the tank. They are not the same bacteria that grow on your media. I don't recall that you had posted your water parameters. It is very important to test and record your water parameters, especially when you make any changes, so that you have a history and can react before you have a major problem. Gets you pretty worked up when something goes bad, doesn't it? I've been there, too.

So, like Greg said, adding more fish is adding more of a bio load and your bacteria need to grow with it. Either add your fish slowly, if you can. Otherwise, add them and feed them VERY sparingly.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

My fish died cuz he was aten lol, but im going to post up my params just in like 20 minutes here and lets me know what u guys think. And should i add cheaper fish first with my one p in there or should i add my other expensive piranhas and take a risk


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

aitsa lonnnng 20 minnits


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

blazednosferatu said:


> My fish died cuz he was aten lol, but im going to post up my params just in like 20 minutes here and lets me know what u guys think. And should i add cheaper fish first with my one p in there or should i add my other expensive piranhas and take a risk


Exactly, it seems the fish know if they lessen the tank load the water will be better.
Just take you time man if the P's are doing well in their temp tank just be patient and add a fish back to the 180 every couple of days. <3 to 4 days>

Again, if the water starts to cloud up just test your trites and trates and in that order meaning look for trites 1st, to make sure you do not expose the fish to a toxic level. <any reading above.5ppm>
Then once the trites fall back to 0ppm just test for trates daily and attempt to keep them below 20 to 30ppm, until your set up rebalances.

Greg


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Readings- ammonia- 0, nitrites- 0, nitrates- 90, ph. 8.4

I know the nitrates are very very high and whats weird is the water isnt cloudy, and for the ph thats pretty high too but the one p in there is doing fine


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

So what do u think about my readings?


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Cmon people, not trying to be annoying but i listed my readings and i want to know if i should do a %50 water change and then see what the nitrates are like?


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

blazednosferatu said:


> Cmon people, not trying to be annoying but i listed my readings and i want to know if i should do a %50 water change and then see what the nitrates are like?





> Then once the trites fall back to 0ppm just test for trates daily and attempt to keep them below 20 to 30ppm, until your set up rebalances.


I already covered that!

Greg


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## RBP7 (Oct 13, 2006)

i had the same problem in my 55g. i used this chem. called p-clear. it cleared it up in like 3-5 hours.


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## blazednosferatu (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks


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