# I dont believe in god



## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

here we go again....


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

ozhp said:


> I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?
> [snapback]863864[/snapback]​


My E-Buddy....We think Alike :nod:


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

this will be fun

in the far corner there is ozhp in the black trunks weighing in at 150lbs
and in the other corner there bible toteing ms natteri in the pink trunks wieghing in at


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

didnt u see the power of God...when he struck asian islands, and when he continues to pound Florida!


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

ozhp said:


> I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?
> [snapback]863864[/snapback]​


and the sparks begin to fly...
i really don't know if he exists


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

god??? More like a natural disaster......

"Tsunamis, also called seismic sea waves or, incorrectly, tidal waves, generally are caused by earthquakes, less commonly by submarine landslides, infrequently by submarine volcanic eruptions and very rarely by a large meteorite impact in the ocean. Submarine volcanic eruptions have the potential to produce truly awesome tsunami waves. The Great Krakatau Volcanic Eruption of 1883 generated giant waves reaching heights of 125 feet above sea-level, killing thousands of people and wiping out numerous coastal villages."
(http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/brochures/tsunami2.htm)

I dont see god listed as a cause do any of you?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

seperation of church and state, they have no choice...though they still swear in presidents with a bible.


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

and how does that prove his existence?


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## ~SUNshine~ (Nov 6, 2003)

ozhp said:


> I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?
> [snapback]863864[/snapback]​


I believe in God myself, but everyones entitled to their own beliefs or non beliefs. your own experiences or circumstances make you a non believer, and me a believer but to each their own.


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## syd (Nov 6, 2004)

im atheist aka i don't belive in fairy tales


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

syd said:


> im atheist aka i don't belive in fairy tales
> [snapback]863943[/snapback]​


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

ozhp said:


> I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?
> [snapback]863864[/snapback]​


So you are one of those who believe in slime to ape to man? I do not care if you do not believe in THE LORD. I am NO ONE to JUDGE you, I'm just a man. But I do not like that fact you call the BIBLE a bunch of bologna. Have you died and come back to life to prove that their is a GOD or that their is no GOD? I think not! Have you ever wonder why science can not prove everthing? Sometimes a little thing called FAITH goes a long way. I respect your opinion even though I do not believe it. But I ask you and everone else who believes like you do, do NOT CALL THE BIBLE a bunch of bologna.


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## Young Gotti (Jan 29, 2003)

> So you are one of those who believe in slime to ape to man?


So u think Adam & Eve is more realistic?









Science









Religion


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

Can you support the statment you made about science cant prove anything??? Id love to see that. And please show us all how the "lord" and your religion proves the fact that one man created our earth? Have fun with that one.


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## x-J-x (Nov 28, 2002)

this will get ugly...keep it civil people...by civil I meant...respecting other people's beliefs...you can have your arguments...but please no personal attacks...i'm sick of that shits


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

So where did we come from? How was the world formed? Where did all the "stuff" come from prior the Big Bang....?


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

Xenon said:


> So where did we come from? How was the world formed? Where did all the "stuff" come from prior the Big Bang....?
> [snapback]863985[/snapback]​


see now you got me there.... But i lean twords physics befor I fill my head with the idea of a higher being creating the surroundings we live in today. How can you honostly think someone created all this? I dont see how you can except a theory filled with so many holes and so many what ifs...... Science supports each theory with evidence, And what evidence does god have?

(if you havent noticed im horrible at spelling........ ive been "blessed" with ADD and dyslexia. sigh)


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## joefromcanada (Apr 16, 2004)

i agree kinda 50/50, i dont believe in the bible, or what it says, i think they are stores that got passed down and down, i believe in evolution. i also think alot of people go to church and what not more or less cause they are scared that this might be the end once we die, and it gives em hope. and well if it makes u happy, well cool. go for it...... but... i didnt read all the post, but like xenons said, where did everythigng come from? the whole universe itsself. its too mind boggling to think about. but there has to be something there. so i do believe in god.


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Xenon said:


> So where did we come from? How was the world formed? Where did all the "stuff" come from prior the Big Bang....?
> [snapback]863985[/snapback]​


Aliens put us here.


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## joefromcanada (Apr 16, 2004)

> Aliens put us here.


 ok i know ur jokin and what not, but some peole coud use that as a exucse say.... well then, where did the aliens come from?


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## sasquach (Dec 6, 2004)

i dont believe either the bible is a load of bull


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## remyo (Aug 26, 2004)

i dont believe in god


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## mypiranhas (Dec 28, 2004)

ozhp said:


> I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?
> [snapback]863864[/snapback]​


Any proof that God exists?.... the Muslim Koran, which is basically the same story as the Bible, except less sensationalist and it was written by one guy (mohammed) in a relatively short period of time and so it is more cohesive and consistent than bible..... it says: "Be grateful that there is NO proof of the existence of God, for if there was you would not be able to receive the reward for believeing in that which is not seen"

ya gotta admit that's very clever.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Well look from the other side of the issue, is their any proof god doesn't exist? No.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Young Gotti said:


> So u think Adam & Eve is more realistic?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can science prove everthing? Can people prove that Science is wrong about who was here first? Can people prove that religion is right?

No I can't nor can you nor can science nor can religion!


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

First of all I do respect your opinion, and so does the Lord. There is a principle of free will in the bible. It is up to you to choose. And I am not writing to convince or try to persuade you. I learned long ago this does nothing.

You have referred to choosing science over God a couple times. I am curious as to what you are alluding to specifically.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

People trying to disprove God using science is bullshit. Many scientists believe in some high power, whats so hard in believe that theirs some being that can travel through all the dimensions of time? You know, sometimes its people that don't believe in higher power thats the real close-minded.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

ozhp said:


> Can you support the statment you made about science cant prove anything??? Id love to see that. And please show us all how the "lord" and your religion proves the fact that one man created our earth? Have fun with that one.
> [snapback]863978[/snapback]​


Okay here we go... How does science know that the universe is infinate. THEY DONT KNOW FOR A FACT! Yet millions of people believe this. How does science prove that we as humans are the center of the universe and that their is no life anywere else? They cant yet everyone who believes in Science believes this. I cant not prove that science is wrong nor I can prove that my GOD is right to you. That is why they call it FAITH! Science can not prove me wrong about the LORD!


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

User said:


> Well look from the other side of the issue, is their any proof god doesn't exist? No.
> [snapback]864088[/snapback]​


can anyone prove that there really isnt a small green man sitting on my shoulder?


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## Young Gotti (Jan 29, 2003)

> Can science prove everthing? Can people prove that Science is wrong about who was here first? Can people prove that religion is right?
> 
> No I can't nor can you nor can science nor can religion!


I just don't believe in that whole Adam and Eve stuff. I believe in evolution and it has been shown in science that animals and humans do evolve.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

ozhp said:


> can anyone prove that there really isnt a small green man sitting on my shoulder?
> [snapback]864109[/snapback]​


Real wise of you to answer my question with one. With logic how can you disprove or prove anything?



Young Gotti said:


> I just don't believe in that whole Adam and Eve stuff. I believe in evolution and it has been shown in science that animals and humans do evolve.
> [snapback]864116[/snapback]​


But still, how does evolution disprove a God? People mix a God or Higher power with the Arab/Jewish/Christian god all the time which I'm trying to point out.


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

sadboy1981 said:


> Okay here we go... How does science know that the universe is infinate. THEY DONT KNOW FOR A FACT! Yet millions of people believe this. How does science prove that we as humans are the center of the universe and that their is no life anywere else? They cant yet everyone who believes in Science believes this. I cant not prove that science is wrong nor I can prove that my GOD is right to you. That is why they call it FAITH! Science can not prove me wrong about the LORD!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok 1st off because people believe in somthing is it true? The germans felt that jews were worthless and needed to die....... is that true? 2nd Show me a theory from a reputable scientist that has come to the conclusion that the human race is the center of the universe. And I never knew all scientist had one theory on that there is no other forms of life. There are thousands of millions of theorys based on scientific facts and THEORYS. I DONT BELIEVE there is a GOD. its just hard to except.






















i'd lay you out! haha


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> This reminds me though, has anyone else heard about that movie 21 grams? I think that the theory behind it could be a very interesting expeiment to replicate again. Conservation of mass, mass in must equal mass out - If it can be shown that when a human dies, and they lose an ounce of matter, but when any other living thing dies, no matter is lost... What is it? Where does it go?
> [snapback]863989[/snapback]​


Hello my agnostic buddy, (I'm one too)

Anyone want to answer this?


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## Dave Hasselhoff (Nov 17, 2004)

threads like this are fun.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

I respect everybodys opinion on Religion and to each his own , But There is A God ( My Lord Jesus) and I will walk with him One day ....


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## Sheriff Freak (Sep 10, 2004)

"if we are all god's childern then why is jesus so special?"

thats a good question to haha. i dont remember where i heard that but it makes me laugh.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

ozhp said:


> ok 1st off because people believe in somthing is it true? The germans felt that jews were worthless and needed to die....... is that true? 2nd Show me a theory from a reputable scientist that has come to the conclusion that the human race is the center of the universe. And I never knew all scientist had one theory on that there is no other forms of life. There are thousands of millions of theorys based on scientific facts and THEORYS. I DONT BELIEVE there is a GOD. its just hard to except.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did I ever in any of my statements say that because you believe in something it is true. I said it was called faith. Now you say that their are millions of theorys. Then why does the goverment say that life on other plants is not true. I have never come across a LAW that states their is no GOD or after life. A therory can be proved wrong until it becomes a LAW. I asked you to tell me how science proves that the universe never ends. Have humans travel so far in space to prove it. No we have not. Yet science believes in this. I say you can call that faith. All I asked you was to respect other people views, as I respect your. But until science can prove that their is no GOD, I will still believe in him.





























Round 2


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## Young Gotti (Jan 29, 2003)

> But still, how does evolution disprove a God? People mix a God or Higher power with the Arab/Jewish/Christian god all the time which I'm trying to point out.


I just don't believe that Adam & Eve were put on this earth. I believe we evolved from monkeys.


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

ozhp said:


> "if we are all god's childern then why is jesus so special?"
> 
> thats a good question to haha. i dont remember where i heard that but it makes me laugh.
> [snapback]864163[/snapback]​


Look Im not trying to be a preacher here ,Nor and I trying to argue at all . Im just answering the question








Jesus is So Special to me and Christians alike is because He died for us and Our Sins . He will love us no matter what and when are final days are here, He will take us from earth to rejoice with him in his Many Mansions .


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Seems like this is more of a disprove the Christian/Muslim/Jewish philosophy than a overall universal discussion.


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

ozhp, as I wrote before I respect your opinion and your free will to choose to believe or not to believe in whatever. But you keep on using science as a tool to defend your non-belief in God and/or why God doesn't exist. What are you refering to specifically?


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

User said:


> Hello my agnostic buddy, (I'm one too)
> 
> Anyone want to answer this?
> [snapback]864150[/snapback]​


Some people will answer by saying water from your body evaporates.
Others say your soul leaves your body. But since the soul is immaterial, it has no weight.
Keep in mind that it's just a theory, and that theories arent neccesarily correct.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> Some people will answer by saying water from your body evaporates.
> Others say your soul leaves your body. But since the soul is immaterial, it has no weight.
> Keep in mind that it's just a theory, and that theories arent neccesarily correct.
> [snapback]864177[/snapback]​


Yes its just a theory, like alot of scientific explanations to things unknown.


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

ozhp said:


> "if we are all god's childern then why is jesus so special?"
> 
> thats a good question to haha. i dont remember where i heard that but it makes me laugh.
> [snapback]864163[/snapback]​


Jesus and God are one in the same. Christians call it the divine Trinity, meaning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one. Trying to explain the Trinity is hard, since it is one of the Mystery's of the Christian faith.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I heard of the theory, isn't the theory the mass leaves at exact moment of death? If thats the case evaporation might be cancelled out of possible explanations. Plus, it doesn't seems to happen to other animals?


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## BUBBA (Sep 4, 2003)

I believe in Christ .


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

User said:


> I heard of the theory, isn't the theory the mass leaves at exact moment of death? If thats the case evaporation might be cancelled out of possible explanations. Plus, it doesn't seems to happen to other animals?
> [snapback]864199[/snapback]​


To me it seems a little farfetched, but it would put a serious dent in the law of conservation of mass if it was true.


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## BUBBA (Sep 4, 2003)

Me Too.











MR HARLEY said:


> I respect everybodys opinion on Religion and to each his own , But There is A God ( My Lord Jesus) and I will walk with him One day ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Hareball (Jul 6, 2003)

<---pagan of some sort. still not sure but leans toward wicca.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

sadboy1981 said:


> Sometimes a little thing called FAITH goes a long way. I respect your opinion even though I do not believe it. But I ask you and everone else who believes like you do, do NOT CALL THE BIBLE a bunch of bologna.
> [snapback]863957[/snapback]​


faith is a sign of fear and weakness, you need to belive in somethign inthis case"the great apperition" oops i mean god because your afraid of what you dont understand or cant be explained.. personally i dont question where humans came from, i honestly dont care about the when where and how, i just take advantage of the fact i can get up everyday and do what i want, if i spend my whole life questioning existance then i would be wasting my existance, i say F it and live it up, because sh*t happens and you never really know when will be your last day why waste it praising some bologna when so called god has nothing to do with a drunk driver plowing into you, and god isnt in the operating room stitching your ass back together, and as much as the "faithful" wont admit it god isnt what makes you struggles to survive its your own determination to live that will help you fight for life.. i hate these stupid f--ks that go around blabering about the bible and praying for the strength to get through normal day to day struggles of life.. you dont need to belive in some BS apperition or read a bologna book you just need to have confidence in your self and respect for other people

that might sound contradictory to respect other peopel but hate people that are brainwashed cultist sheep but i have no respect for these mindless drones they arent getting the fullest out of life..

they throw away there money to stupid church groups so these preist can molest there children and live an easy life of giving sermons and listening to weak complain about how they have sinned or what ever it is they think they have done that some deutchbag says is wrong.. the whole thing makes me sick, get a life..

guess what david koresh belived in a god too look where that got him.. muslims belive in a god and look how much good thats doing the world there ready to fight the "zionist" at all cost.. ahh yes religon spreading peace and love across teh world.. aaaacccchhhhh makes me f--king sick.. the spanish inquisition... hitler killing the jews, palastinians killing the jews. some great work there! wheres god while all that goes on?

a bunch of BS i feel sorry for these stupid people wasting there life on being belivers.. god isnt going to save you froma natural disaster, an auto accident, or disease.. i belive in luck, and i am one lucky SOB..


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> faith is a sign of fear and weakness, you need to belive in somethign inthis case"the great apperition" oops i mean god because your afraid of what you dont understand or cant be explained.. personally i dont question where humans came from, i honestly dont care about the when where and how, i just take advantage of the fact i can get up everyday and do what i want, if i spend my whole life questioning existance then i would be wasting my existance, i say F it and live it up, because sh*t happens and you never really know when will be your last day why waste it praising some bologna when so called god has nothing to do with a drunk driver plowing into you, and god isnt in the operating room stitching your ass back together, and as much as the "faithful" wont admit it god isnt what makes you struggles to survive its your own determination to live that will help you fight for life.. i hate these stupid f--ks that go around blabering about the bible and praying for the strength to get through normal day to day struggles of life.. you dont need to belive in some BS apperition or read a bologna book you just need to have confidence in your self and respect for other people
> 
> that might sound contradictory to respect other peopel but hate people that are brainwashed cultist sheep but i have no respect for these mindless drones they arent getting the fullest out of life..
> 
> ...


You obviously have no knowledge whatsoever of any religion...


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> You obviously have no knowledge whatsoever of any religion...
> [snapback]864241[/snapback]​


i know enough and have see enough that is makes me sick to see the way people live there life based on religouse belifes, not all people with "faith are as bad but there are more then enough religouse nuts out there that are honestly just plain crazy.. there is a differnence between beliving and being a sheep, im refering to the sheep they make me sick, cant even get through one day with out praying for some stupid crap that they feel is out of there control which is bs.


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> No, it wouldn't at all. It is the conservation of mass that is proving that something is happening. Because if 21 grams of mass is leaving the body then that 21 grams of mass is in the form of something. The 'theory' is that the something is a soul.
> [snapback]864243[/snapback]​


It doesn't make sense that it could be a soul, since the soul is not material. The soul is what lets us come up with ideas, and allows us to be able to think of an object we cant see, it is immaterial, and lets us recognize the immaterial. You can't weigh something that isnt physical.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> No, it wouldn't at all. It is the conservation of mass that is proving that something is happening. Because if 21 grams of mass is leaving the body then that 21 grams of mass is in the form of something. The 'theory' is that the something is a soul.
> [snapback]864243[/snapback]​


the form of waste leaving the body because of loss of control of your organs..

oh wait i know what it is, the hand of god releaseing you from his control.. yeah thats it

sorry im not trying to derail your debate.. ill stay out of this thread its pissing me off..


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> i know enough and have see enough that is makes me sick to see the way people live there life based on religouse belifes, not all people with "faith are as bad but there are more then enough religouse nuts out there that are honestly just plain crazy.. there is a differnence between beliving and being a sheep, im refering to the sheep they make me sick, cant even get through one day with out praying for some stupid crap that they feel is out of there control which is bs.
> [snapback]864247[/snapback]​


There is not one religion that beleives God will prevent you from breaking a nail if you pray X times a day. Some people have skewed views of their religion, so don't bash the religion when its the people who make the mistake.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> faith is a sign of fear and weakness, you need to belive in somethign inthis case"the great apperition" oops i mean god because your afraid of what you dont understand or cant be explained.. personally i dont question where humans came from, i honestly dont care about the when where and how, i just take advantage of the fact i can get up everyday and do what i want, if i spend my whole life questioning existance then i would be wasting my existance, i say F it and live it up, because sh*t happens and you never really know when will be your last day why waste it praising some bologna when so called god has nothing to do with a drunk driver plowing into you, and god isnt in the operating room stitching your ass back together, and as much as the "faithful" wont admit it god isnt what makes you struggles to survive its your own determination to live that will help you fight for life.. i hate these stupid f--ks that go around blabering about the bible and praying for the strength to get through normal day to day struggles of life.. you dont need to belive in some BS apperition or read a bologna book you just need to have confidence in your self and respect for other people
> 
> that might sound contradictory to respect other peopel but hate people that are brainwashed cultist sheep but i have no respect for these mindless drones they arent getting the fullest out of life..
> 
> ...


I do not care about what you believe or not. I could give a fly F--K. I do not go to people homes and try to save them. I only care about my family and friends. You right, here today and gone tomorrow. No one knows when he or she will get up in the morning for the last time. But by reading yout post, I can tell you have poor morals and values. What you do today makes the person who you will be in the furture. Have fun and live your life. I do not care what you do as long as it does not affect me. But I will tell you something if you had told me in person thast things you said, you be on the floor. I ask that people should respect peoples ideas. But do not go around and calling what I believe in and My LORD a bunch of BS. I am not saint just a MAN who would of knocked your ass out.







I know the bible does not teach this but F it I am just a man who f's up.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

nismo driver said:


> the form of waste leaving the body because of loss of control of your organs..
> 
> oh wait i know what it is, the hand of god releaseing you from his control.. yeah thats it
> sorry im not trying to derail your debate.. ill stay out of this thread its pissing me off..
> [snapback]864252[/snapback]​


you should have stayed out of it in the first place


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## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2004)

Xenon said:


> So where did we come from? How was the world formed? Where did all the "stuff" come from prior the Big Bang....?
> [snapback]863985[/snapback]​


one of the things i like about science is when its wrong, its wrong. people then work on the science untill its right. so lets say for a second the big band didnt really happend. maybe there's another theory out there. 
if it fits the mold better scientest will use that insted.

however. the bible isnt like that. you put all of your faith in something that you wont let be proven wrong. 
that kind of scares me about people.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> faith is a sign of fear and weakness, you need to belive in somethign inthis case"the great apperition" oops i mean god because your afraid of what you dont understand or cant be explained.. personally i dont question where humans came from, i honestly dont care about the when where and how, i just take advantage of the fact i can get up everyday and do what i want, if i spend my whole life questioning existance then i would be wasting my existance, i say F it and live it up, because sh*t happens and you never really know when will be your last day why waste it praising some bologna when so called god has nothing to do with a drunk driver plowing into you, and god isnt in the operating room stitching your ass back together, and as much as the "faithful" wont admit it god isnt what makes you struggles to survive its your own determination to live that will help you fight for life.. i hate these stupid f--ks that go around blabering about the bible and praying for the strength to get through normal day to day struggles of life.. you dont need to belive in some BS apperition or read a bologna book you just need to have confidence in your self and respect for other people
> 
> that might sound contradictory to respect other peopel but hate people that are brainwashed cultist sheep but i have no respect for these mindless drones they arent getting the fullest out of life..
> 
> ...


Faith is hope in a better world with loyalty and allegiance to the cause, rather your religious or not majority has faith in something, if its Jesus & Trinity then fine, Allah fine, many Gods fine. Some people has faith in Science and medicine.

Explain how faith is a sign of fear and weakness.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

sadboy1981 said:


> I do not care about what you believe or not. I could give a fly F--K. I do not go to people homes and try to save them. I only care about my family and friends. You right, here today and gone tomorrow. No one knows when he or she will get up in the morning for the last time. But by reading yout post, I can tell you have poor morals and values. What you do today makes the person who you will be in the furture. Have fun and live your life. I do not care what you do as long as it does not affect me. But I will tell you something if you had told me in person thast things you said, you be on the floor. I ask that people should respect peoples ideas. But do not go around and calling what I believe in and My LORD a bunch of BS. I am not saint just a MAN who would of knocked your ass out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


see your religion will push you to the point of volence towards people that dont agree.. i dont agree with your religon and you really couldnt piss me off by trying to insult me for not having a belife so i have no reason to fight over a religon.. and where would it get you with your god to knock some one out? the bible is just a book, like the cat in the hat, or windows for dummies, i will never understand why so many people get sucked into stupid pointless religon it really doesnt get you anywhere, except maybe a good excuess to go to church for the social aspect to meets people, its like a big social club..

you say i have no morals? i have enough morals and respect that i do not fight over something as pointless as religon.. i respect peoples property and freedom to do and say what they want, you want to dis agree with me fine its nothing to hit someone over.. violence achives nothing, that to is a sign of weakness and lack of tolerence.. oh i cant say anythign to defend my self and im too ignorant to just agree to dis agree so im just going to knock you out.. good one, you make me feel even better about my self for being above you.. resorting to violence is the easy way out.. ooo im bigger im stronger.. well im 6'2' 200 lbs you wanna knock me out go ahead.. you prove my point even more..


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

ghostnote said:


> one of the things i like about science is when its wrong, its wrong. people then work on the science untill its right. so lets say for a second the big band didnt really happend. maybe there's another theory out there.
> if it fits the mold better scientest will use that insted.
> 
> however. the bible isnt like that. you put all of your faith in something that you wont let be proven wrong.
> ...


Again I keep hearing the same thing. Science is also based faith, or is it not? Science has yet to prove that the universe is never ending. So does not science contridict it self by telling the world that the universe is infinate. Science says that little green are not real. They do not know this for a fact. Also what is "big band"? It is all based on FAITH.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

nismo driver said:


> see your religion will push you to the point of volence towards people that dont agree.. i dont agree with your religon and you really couldnt piss me off by trying to insult me for not having a belife so i have no reason to fight over a religon.. and where would it get you with your god to knock some one out? the bible is just a book, like the cat in the hat, or windows for dummies, i will never understand why so many people get sucked into stupid pointless religon it really doesnt get you anywhere, except maybe a good excuess to go to church for the social aspect to meets people, its like a big social club..
> 
> you say i have no morals? i have enough morals and respect that i do not fight over something as pointless as religon.. i respect peoples property and freedom to do and say what they want, you want to dis agree with me fine its nothing to hit someone over.. violence achives nothing, that to is a sign of weakness and lack of tolerence.. oh i cant say anythign to defend my self and im too ignorant to just agree to dis agree so im just going to knock you out.. good one, you make me feel even better about my self for being above you.. resorting to violence is the easy way out.. ooo im bigger im stronger.. well im 6'2' 200 lbs you wanna knock me out go ahead.. you prove my point even more..
> [snapback]864280[/snapback]​


Dude your the agressor, many of us do not appreciate being called Stupid you know.
You dont beleive, fine, but at least respect others beleifs


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## User (May 31, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> they throw away there money to stupid church groups so these preist can molest there children and live an easy life of giving sermons and listening to weak complain about how they have sinned or what ever it is they think they have done that some deutchbag says is wrong.. the whole thing makes me sick, get a life..
> [snapback]864233[/snapback]​


That generalization is weak minded, if you think all priests rape little children, then you must think all pastors are ********, and all muslims are terrorists and all Jews are out for money. C'mon show alittle intellect.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

Written by a former Atheist.

Proof of the existence of God


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

User said:


> That generalization is weak minded, if you think all priests rape little children, then you must think all pastors are ********, and all muslims are terrorists and all Jews are out for money. C'mon show alittle intellect.
> [snapback]864304[/snapback]​


your right it is a bad generalization and i dont honeslty feel that ALL peopel are bad and there are bad people in every group but when you have these petafile preists, and religon causeing war and islamic extremeist it turns me off of the whole thing.. i dont belive all generalisations but there are defiantely people that fit the steroe types


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> Written by a former Atheist.
> 
> Proof of the existence of God
> [snapback]864317[/snapback]​


Neat article.


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## heffer2028 (Oct 10, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Some people can say that its because of water leaving, but that's why I said someone should do further experiments. If it can be shown that you body DOES lose 20 some grams in mass in the minute or so after your death, it is not water evaporating. The body loses mass due to dehydration at a certain rate, and this ounce of weight is NOT consistant with the rate of mass flow out both before and after death. In other words, water leaves steadily up until the point of death, and there is a spike in mass leaving, and then water continues to leave at its normal rate - meaning that it's not 20 some grams of water leaving. Unfortunately, however, it would be very hard to get an experiment like this done, and I don't think it's going to happen any time soon for a number of reasons.
> [snapback]864193[/snapback]​


the body loses weight constantly without doing anything at all. the body loses a little more than .1 pound an hour of doing nothing. so if you stood still for 10 hours your body will lose a little over a pound of weight. Where does that go?


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

User said:


> Neat article.
> [snapback]864344[/snapback]​


 Its less typing for me


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## SLANTED (Dec 7, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> It's not the same 'faith'. The big bang theory is not something that scientists just made up out of the blue for everyone to believe. It's based on many facts, and many very different things that all agree with it. For example, the universe is, and has been, spreading out, with everything consistantly getting further away from each other.
> [snapback]864305[/snapback]​


Just thought I'd chyme in with a little interesting fact. It has been proven for a while now that universe is spreading increasingly. What is more is that it implied a starting point due to the manner in which the universe is spreading. What everything points to is the universe has a beginning. What does this mean? With both pieces, it has been shown it will also have an end. Therefore the universe is infinite in space but not in time. Then if our universe is temporate, what was before and what will be after? So many have in this thread clung to "science" as an excuse to believe in what they believe in. Again, believe in what you want. That is your God given right as a human being but do not use science as a synonym for atheism


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## User (May 31, 2004)

heffer2028 said:


> the body loses weight constantly without doing anything at all. the body loses a little more than .1 pound an hour of doing nothing. so if you stood still for 10 hours your body will lose a little over a pound of weight. Where does that go?
> [snapback]864345[/snapback]​


Yeah, but the "claim" of 20+ grams the 'exact moment of death' is interesting and needs to be stuided.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

Truth be told, the reason you dont believe in god is because god knows his people. I found my religion through questioning my purpose for living and breathing... I guess people forget where they came from...

you know what i think is funny, if you show someone a magic trick, they get all excited, you tricked them... but if you tell them the bible makes hundreds of prophecy in a chronological order, they aren't even willing to read it (they know if they open the book, they have to see jesus, thats their true fear... You disagree? close your eyes and start talking to god, ask him how he feels about you, and how do you feel he feels about you? that was god talking to you). if you do enough work, god lets you figure it out, if not, you just start to think of the world (conciously) and not think subconciously, realizing your subciouncious mind is the realization of why animals and mammals dont commit suicide, and were the only species who does.

People who dont belive in god are just far away from the world itself, surely you dont think the earth is a big dead rock with dirt on top? the most complex engergys of the world lie in the core of the earth, just like the human body.. whos to say the earth doesn't have a brain?

If you have never smoked the reef, you can never see the world you came from.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Some have told me that some people don't believe in God or 'the mainstream God' because if God is real then heaven, hell and 'Satan' would also be real. Maybe some are just afraid to have an openmind on this subject. Either way, its been and interesting discussion so far.


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## syd (Nov 6, 2004)

i wish there was a god cuz heaven sounds real f*cking fun but i cant just pretend something to be true and automatically that happnends

that makes you a candidate for needing serious medicine.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

nismo driver said:


> see your religion will push you to the point of volence towards people that dont agree.. i dont agree with your religon and you really couldnt piss me off by trying to insult me for not having a belife so i have no reason to fight over a religon.. and where would it get you with your god to knock some one out? the bible is just a book, like the cat in the hat, or windows for dummies, i will never understand why so many people get sucked into stupid pointless religon it really doesnt get you anywhere, except maybe a good excuess to go to church for the social aspect to meets people, its like a big social club..
> 
> you say i have no morals? i have enough morals and respect that i do not fight over something as pointless as religon.. i respect peoples property and freedom to do and say what they want, you want to dis agree with me fine its nothing to hit someone over.. violence achives nothing, that to is a sign of weakness and lack of tolerence.. oh i cant say anythign to defend my self and im too ignorant to just agree to dis agree so im just going to knock you out.. good one, you make me feel even better about my self for being above you.. resorting to violence is the easy way out.. ooo im bigger im stronger.. well im 6'2' 200 lbs you wanna knock me out go ahead.. you prove my point even more..
> [snapback]864280[/snapback]​


First of all it's not becasue of my religion that I got upset with you. If I walk up to you in the street or wherever. I tell you F your mom, dad or wahtever (knowing full well that will upset) would you not get upset? So why is this different. Would you not fight someone for disrespecting your parents, family, childern? You know that I believe in the Lord so why would you say F him? And you are suppersed at my reaction. If you had better morals then you would know to respect others ideas and not tell people F to your ideas. Also I'm 5"8 built and around 260.........


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## User (May 31, 2004)

syd said:


> i wish there was a god cuz heaven sounds real f*cking fun but i cant just pretend something to be true and automatically that happnends
> that makes you a candidate for needing serious medicine.
> [snapback]864384[/snapback]​


Nobody is asking anyone to believe in Heaven, I don't fully believe in heaven because I'm agnostic. But those people that do practice religion and believe, whats their to lose? If they're right then great.. if they're wrong then atleast they tried to live a good life.


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

ozhp said:


> I really don't. He didn't create this planet nor did he create us. The bible is a bunch of bologna, stories passed down generation to generation then finally written down on paper. Do people still believe in Greek gods still? like Zeus or Aphrodite? I don't think so if so maybe I'm wrong but Those gods seemed foolish to the generations to come and is now why there considered myths. There is no heaven or hell. Once you die your done, you decompose into the ground and you are recycled back into the world threw the soil. God is used for the sake of keeping our generations moral. Many people look up to god when they have encountered something that is out of there power. Yet is there any real proof he exists?
> [snapback]863864[/snapback]​


and it took you how long to realize?? 
Welcome to the sad world of the non-believers









joyful will be the ones who Can believe


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> It's not the same 'faith'. The big bang theory is not something that scientists just made up out of the blue for everyone to believe. It's based on many facts, and many very different things that all agree with it. For example, the universe is, and has been, spreading out, with everything consistantly getting further away from each other.
> [snapback]864305[/snapback]​


Faith is the belief in something that you can not prove. If you believe in the big bang then I call that faith. Science can not prove that 100%. How is the universe spreading out. Has man traveled so far into space and saw for himself? No we have not. I know what you are talking about but yet the idea that you believe in something that you can not see forself is also known as faith.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

Kreth 10RBP said:


> Truth be told, the reason you dont believe in god is because god knows his people. I found my religion through questioning my purpose for living and breathing... I guess people forget where they came from...
> 
> you know what i think is funny, if you show someone a magic trick, they get all excited, you tricked them... but if you tell them the bible makes hundreds of prophecy in a chronological order, they aren't even willing to read it (they know if they open the book, they have to see jesus, thats their true fear... You disagree? close your eyes and start talking to god, ask him how he feels about you, and how do you feel he feels about you? that was god talking to you). if you do enough work, god lets you figure it out, if not, you just start to think of the world (conciously) and not think subconciously, realizing your subciouncious mind is the realization of why animals and mammals dont commit suicide, and were the only species who does.
> 
> ...


 wow that was kind of alot of random thoughts some how tied togerther.. i think you smoke entirely too much of the "reef"


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

WilliamBradley said:


> and it took you how long to realize??
> Welcome to the sad world of the non-believers
> 
> 
> ...


theres nothing sad about sleeping late on sunday... but if i new there where girls that looked like william bradley at church then maybe id start going... poonany is god, has more control over men tehn any bologna book..


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## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

Havent we learned that arguing the existance of god is pointless. Noone who believes in god is going to all of a sudden say YOUR RIGHT THERE IS NO GOD from some fuckin posts on a website and no atheist is going to be all of a sudden enlightened by anything a religious person can say. So what do we get from all of this arguing? Thats right absofuckinglutly nothing. Cant we all agree to disagree on this subject and leave it at that??????


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## User (May 31, 2004)

dwarfcat said:


> Havent we learned that arguing the existance of god is pointless. Noone who believes in god is going to all of a sudden say YOUR RIGHT THERE IS NO GOD from some fuckin posts on a website and no atheist is going to be all of a sudden enlightened by anything a religious person can say. So what do we get from all of this arguing? *Thats right absofuckinglutly nothing*. Cant we all agree to disagree on this subject and leave it at that??????
> [snapback]864439[/snapback]​


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

I don't believe in god because:

proof he doesn't exist, shitloads of evolution proof (dinosaurs) the fact the bible is just reinterpreted everytime its proved wrong doesn't help the case either. There are loads

proof he does, absolutely f*cking ZERO, except a book full of fairy tales written by a random group of people over the centuries

...umm which to believe, its tricky.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

WolfFish said:


> I don't believe in god because:
> 
> proof he doesn't exist, shitloads of evolution proof (dinosaurs) the fact the bible is just reinterpreted everytime its proved wrong doesn't help the case either. There are loads
> 
> ...


Go back and read the thread.


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

Too many people posting mere opinions instead of something intelligible.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> Too many people posting mere opinions instead of something intelligible.
> [snapback]864563[/snapback]​


You are 100% right...


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## mypiranhas (Dec 28, 2004)

nismo driver said:


> i know enough and have see enough that is makes me sick to see the way people live there life based on religouse belifes, not all people with "faith are as bad but there are more then enough religouse nuts out there that are honestly just plain crazy.. there is a differnence between beliving and being a sheep, im refering to the sheep they make me sick, cant even get through one day with out praying for some stupid crap that they feel is out of there control which is bs.
> [snapback]864247[/snapback]​


I'm not especially religious but I do find it a fascinating subject. With all due respect I think that the people that are praying for help to get through a normal day are not praying primarily for the bus to come on time and that their lunch is hot or even so much that a disaster won't kill them. But more they are praying for god's help to avoid the pit falls of sin so that they might achieve heaven...something that you're entirely not concerned with. and that's cool if that's what keeps you going. I'm just saying that its not just about being weak and needing help to get through the day but to get to heaven and there is no other practical way of acheieving this...or so the mytholoy goes.

aren't you the gut that recently got the 13.5 inch Rhom? how that bastard doing?


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## syd (Nov 6, 2004)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> Too many people posting mere opinions instead of something intelligible.
> [snapback]864563[/snapback]​


i agree but unfortuantely that's what happends with theists.


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

syd said:


> i agree but unfortuantely that's what happends with theists.
> [snapback]864613[/snapback]​


yet another example


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## syd (Nov 6, 2004)

go to church you bad boy


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

ever heard of this man?
I'd take a look,
he's a phylosopher

http://www.pitt.edu/~wbcurry/nietzsche.html


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

I'm debating whether or not I should enter this argument... I can see many won't like me too much; even more so than now









I'll just post a quick thought for all of you.

Most of you forget that there is a difference between "Faith" and "Organized Religion". I will be bold and state that organized religion is one of the main reasons that virtual utopia will not be realized on earth seeing as it groups people together in a fashion that spreads opinion instead of FAITH. Faith is a belief in the unknown. Most forms of organized religion are total bullshit that was meant to control large amounts of people by appealing to their conscience.

I'm also going to assume that most people here are Christian. (For the most part anyways). For all of you die hard advocates of the various forms of christianity, why not listen to what is inside of you instead of something written by random storytellers, 2000 years ago?

Anyways, that was already longer than I wanted it to be... I'll stop now...

EDIT: Spelling

Pac


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

WilliamBradley said:


> ever heard of this man?
> I'd take a look,
> he's a phylosopher
> 
> ...


Who in his later years had gone completely insane from the syphilis eating at his brain...

Not to say anything against nietzsche or whatever, just thought it should be pointed out









I didn't read the thread but in reply to the thread starter, good for you in having your own beliefs and I hope they make you happy. In regards to the "when you die you're done" statement however, and to anyone else who believes this... how do you know exactly? I mean, it would seem scientifically unlikely for a "soul" to go on living after the body dies, but then what evidence is there that your consciousness is destroyed? Considering NOTHING in nature can cease existing, and neither energy or matter can simply be destroyed, what makes you think the human consciousness is the only thing in existence to do such a thing?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

nismo driver said:


> a bunch of BS i feel sorry for these stupid people wasting there life on being belivers.. god isnt going to save you froma natural disaster, an auto accident, or disease.. i belive in luck, and i am one lucky SOB..
> [snapback]864233[/snapback]​


I feel sorry for non-believers, because they are going to burn in hell!

/religious speel.

Now on to something more tangible, instead of calling us believers stupid, why dont you respect that as humans we have differences. You dont see us believers parading around saying how stupid you are for not believing.

Now turn your statement around from a religious POV. Our time on earth is short and unpredictable. And when you die, your soul still lives on for eternity. I'd rather die believing and have a chance to spend my eternity in happiness than to die NOT believing and spending it hell. (That of course is NOT the reason why I believe, but Im just saying).

I find it kind of ironic and almost funny that when a loved one that you hold close and dear to you might die (due to lets say a car accident) or you yourself get tossed around the road on black ice and end up in a ditch down the hill a few hundred yards, that all of sudden you believe and start praying and hoping some kind of miracle will happen. Im not saying this goes for you specifically, just stating an example of people that are non-believers.

Sometimes you just dont need reason to believe in something. For example, why do you love your mother? father? sister/brother? gf/bf/husband/wife? Do you really need a reason to love them? To trust them? To believe in them? No! Why? Same works with me, I dont need a reason to believe in God. I just believe. He's done well more than enough for me, personally, to know that he exists.


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## sccavee (Feb 11, 2003)

I also don't believe in a "god". I believe in science and evolution. I also do not force any of my beliefs on anyone. Religion in many ways is a great thing for people. Many peoples belief in a god is what gets them through their life. Thats great.

I also do not believe in a life after death. I have no real great reason for that belief other than that is what I believe. I live my life day by day doing what I feel is right and treat people as I want to be treated. I myself do not need to believe in a overall being to live my life how I feel I should.

Everyone has their own beliefs and thats what makes our species special in this world.


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Who in his later years had gone completely insane from the syphilis eating at his brain...
> 
> Not to say anything against nietzsche or whatever, just thought it should be pointed out
> 
> ...


There are two conflicting ideas about this (that i know of from my readings in philosophy). The First comes from skeptics and subjectivists. According to this humans are not at all concious, and reality is non-existant. So we don't even know if we live, and we can't be sure of anything.
The other that i know of comes from metaphysics. According to metaphysics, the conciousness is not physical, and does not consist of matter. Since it is not physical, it cannot cease to exist the same way something physical can (through decay and age).


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

I believe there was a study with people who prayed to god, and people who didnt...the people who prayed to him where sick like 50% less often...







GOD POWER!

plus, big bang is a concept, and so is evolution. God pwnz darwin.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

sccavee said:


> I also don't believe in a "god". I believe in science and evolution. I also do not force any of my beliefs on anyone. Religion in many ways is a great thing for people. Many peoples belief in a god is what gets them through their life. Thats great.
> 
> I also do not believe in a life after death. I have no real great reason for that belief other than that is what I believe. I live my life day by day doing what I feel is right and treat people as I want to be treated. I myself do not need to believe in a overall being to live my life how I feel I should.
> 
> ...


I respect your belief and I am glad to hear that you live day to day. As I live day to day as it where my last


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## ChErRiEliPz510 (Nov 17, 2003)

If God is our guradian angel, then why did he let those innocent people die?







How come he didn't save the lives that was taken away. How do we know if the bible is true and that all that was written actually happened? There's a lot of questions that need to be answered... I'm not too sure about the belief of God.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Its the devils fault people die!!! He is evil!!


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## RhomZilla (Feb 12, 2003)

Man.. I honestly hate these religion threads.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I honestly wonder if Earth will be able to support life in 30 years.
C'mon all this religious tension will explode, its growing more dangerous everyday.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

^ i would say no, i prob will see the end in my lifetime.







not just because of hatred, but the OZONE is depleting=sh*t


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

The creationism vs. evolution debate again.

Ill pose this question. Can there be a differing level of involvement between both? Does god infact touch/control every aspect of life like some beleive, or is his involvemet almost nothing. Like a watch. Someone had to build the watch. construct a case, make gears and levers, then masterfully design how all the peices and parts will fit together to make it keep correct time. The watch is given away or sold. The watchmaker dosent keep the watch running. He dosent set it to the proper time or change batteries. If its kinetic he dosent keep it in motion to keep it running. For every answer there questions behind it. Unbiased thinking will keep us in a wealth of knowledge in both areas. Is this blend impossible......

As far as the gentleman that keeps refering to faith and proof, there is a reason why the oil does not mix with water. We are not questioning as a human race what the difference is between faith, theorys, or proof are. We all know what the differences are as religious and scientific people. Science knows no faith. Science knows hypothosies, theorys, and empirical evidence.

Does the speed of light ever change unobstructed. To the best of our knowledge, no. It is one of the most constant things in our universe infact. Many of our equasions in physics are completely dependent on this consistent variable. This variable has remained constant and performed flawelessly in every area we have ever applied it to. Even these constants can be dethroned eventually as our knowledge grows however. The universe is expanding. We can prove it. Ill condense the reasons here. The dopler effect is something you all have experienced. As light moves either toward or away from you, the wave either elongates or condenses. This shift changes the wavelength relative to your position. As it condenses the wavelength shortens and shifts to a blue spectrum. As it elongates it redshifts. When you look at photos of galaxies this is the reason they are colors. The vast majoraty of all documented galaxies are redshifted. They are moving away from us. Meaning the universe is expanding. THeres more though. Not only are they moving away, they are speeding up. The redshift keeps accelerating. So whatever force initially caused the movement is still acting. We dont need to be on these galaxies with a spedometer to know this.

Why am I telling you all this.... All of these things are based on factual evidence that involve constant variables no matter where you are in the universe. No we cannot travel 4 billion light years from here and take measurements. Nor can we go back 15 billion years and figure out what was here before the creation of the universe as we know it. Those do not keep us from knowing the properties of photons, or how many neutrons, protons and electrons make up magnesium. We apply what we know to what we dont assuming all of the variables remain constant throughout the universe. Evidence is hugely mounted to suggest that they do remain constant because we cannot find instances where our laws are broken.

Knowing all of these things and beleiving my education does not disprove my faith in anyway shape or form. It brings me closer.


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

Am I the only one that believes in religion AND science? Who's to say that God didn't create creature's that evolved or that he started the big bang?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

^ whos to say god didnt create the entire big bang theory, and who is to say jesus could not walk on water. heck look at the miracles people can do today, a human man can pull a train, clone animals...crazier sh*t than they claim in the bible.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

thier is a god and he's an annoying sob, so regardless whether you like dislike, believe or not, he will be thier f*cking with you forever


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

ChErRiEliPz510 said:



> If God is our guradian angel, then why did he let those innocent people die?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats like saying, how do you know the bubonic plague happened? How do you know where Spaghetti came from? Marco Polo? How do you know know Christopher Columbus was a big part in discovering the New World? How do you know the Battle of New Orleans happened? The Boston Tea Party?

Catching my drift? How do you know history happened? It is written. Its called HIS_story_ for a reason. Has the Bible ever lied? Its one book of text that surely has lasted longer on the market than any other book and is the #1 best seller every year across the WORLD!

Remember, we look at life differently from God. God looks at life on earth far differently than the eternity your soul will have with him in Heaven or with Satan in Hell.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Young Gotti said:


> So u think Adam & Eve is more realistic?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not jumping in here with both feet. I just want to point out that science and religion BY DEFINITION cannot define each other. Trying to prove or disprove god with physical evidence or logic doesn't work. This argument will predictably be like arguing with Peacock (it will go in mindless circles).

Channafreak gets close to where my mind is, for those curious.


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## joefromcanada (Apr 16, 2004)

> Am I the only one that believes in religion AND science? Who's to say that God didn't create creature's that evolved or that he started the big bang?


that is exactly what i believe, i dotn wanna get a big long speach goin, but u look at earth, the universe and everything, who cares if we are the center, we will never know.... but something put it here? something put the stars there and the sun, they didnt just exist. i believe in the big bang and evolution. but something made the big bang happen, and set it up, once there was earth, they say life stared from 1 single cell organism in the water. evolved from there. i had someone say to me why arnt thing still evolving? well science says the earth has been around for approx 5 billion years. well say even in the last 2000, 2000 years comparted to 5 billion is nothing. u would see nothing chance in such a short time span. id ramble on but my rides here


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

Natt King Shoal said:


> Am I the only one that believes in religion AND science? Who's to say that God didn't create creature's that evolved or that he started the big bang?
> [snapback]865784[/snapback]​


I guess you didnt read my post.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

mypiranhas said:


> I'm not especially religious but I do find it a fascinating subject. With all due respect I think that the people that are praying for help to get through a normal day are not praying primarily for the bus to come on time and that their lunch is hot or even so much that a disaster won't kill them. But more they are praying for god's help to avoid the pit falls of sin so that they might achieve heaven...something that you're entirely not concerned with. and that's cool if that's what keeps you going. I'm just saying that its not just about being weak and needing help to get through the day but to get to heaven and there is no other practical way of acheieving this...or so the mytholoy goes.
> 
> aren't you the gut that recently got the 13.5 inch Rhom? how that bastard doing?
> [snapback]864588[/snapback]​


i did recently get a new RHOM about the same time the other member got the really big RHOM from george but mine is only 7.5 inchs there is a thread in teh video and picture section with a video of it i think its called video of RHOM swimming..

im basing my statement about people praying for stength on this woman that i work with, she really does pray for the strength or what ever to help her do her work, for example one day i was getting sick of the project i was working on and i was talking to her and she said she would pray for me for the stength to get the project done, i told her to save her prayers the only thing getting the work done is me focusing on what im doing..

this is only one example of this womans level of insanity, she is on the phone with her b/f and other members of her religous group atleast 3 to 8 times a day praying, sometimes she starts crying at work about who knows what.. she is in her late 40's and cant even go on vacation with her boyfriend because of her religous crazieness..

i dont think her prayers are to get to heaven, altough im sure that is what she wants to do, but she comes of as all nice and religous, but as soon as you bring up something at work that she screwed up which is almost everything she does because she is more worried about talking on the phone and praying then paying attention to what she is doing, she gets really defensive and very very bitchy when anyone points out something that needs to be corrected or if something doesnt go her way she really does get psycho.. so the way she acts towards other people is far from what i would think any person should treat others..

i know this is a rare case and obviously not everyone here that considers them self a religous person is not as crazy as this woman.. so when people get all pissed off about stuff i post about these psychos please understand that im basing this on these f--king wack jobs that i hear and deal with on a regular basis.. if you just go to church one or two times a week and belive in god or what ever thats fine i think its great.. but this woman and her loony friends have prayer groups like three times a week for hours at a time and spend the other days of the week doing other weird church stuff, its like shes in a cult.. these are the type of religous wierdos that piss me off.. sorry if there has been some type of mis understading..


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

> Remember, we look at life differently from God. God looks at life on earth far differently than the eternity your soul will have with him in Heaven or with Satan in Hell.


How do you feel about Odin and/or Zeus looking down at us as well? Don't go posting assumptions that your thoughts are verified whereas someone elses aren't. There is no point in posting in this thread seeing as no one can prove anything. I just don't understand why people here believe what other people tell them (ie all forms of organized religion) instead of deciphering something for themselves.

Pac


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Ah, I like that post Pac...

Good to take this to another level (the initial level is pretty much un-resolvable)


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

even if there is none, why not give it a chance in case your wrong and go to heaven


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> How do you feel about Odin and/or Zeus looking down at us as well? Don't go posting assumptions that your thoughts are verified whereas someone elses aren't. There is no point in posting in this thread seeing as no one can prove anything. I just don't understand why people here believe what other people tell them (ie all forms of organized religion) instead of deciphering something for themselves.
> 
> Pac
> [snapback]866354[/snapback]​


From what I have studied, polytheism makes no sense to me. The idea of God/Creator is one of perfection, meaning that the creator had to be perfect to create. Otherwise, how would there be a standard for creation? The only logical answer i can come up with is that there must have been 1 creator, that was completely perfect. From him came the perfect idea of the universe, the perfect idea of the earth, and the perfect *idea* of man.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> From what I have studied, polytheism makes no sense to me. The idea of God/Creator is one of perfection, meaning that the creator had to be perfect to create. Otherwise, how would there be a standard for creation? The only logical answer i can come up with is that there must have been 1 creator, that was completely perfect. From him came the perfect idea of the universe, the perfect idea of the earth, and the perfect *idea* of man.
> [snapback]866381[/snapback]​


Your statements have as much merit as myself claiming that I created the world myself. Think about it. If I believe or have faith in it; what makes you right and me wrong?

Absolutely nothing; therefore all thoughts about the unknown are 100% unjustified. I would simply prefer if people wouldn't brainwash their children at an early age and force them into something that they cannot comprehend.

Thinking for yourself > Organized Religion.

Pac


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

A lot of polytheism still looks at one force or power. It may not be a "HIM" (I have plenty of trouble with that way of thinking anyhow), but the gods are manifestations of one force.

Speaking of the "Him", wouldn't it make more sense for a creator to be female?...


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

acestro said:


> Speaking of the "Him", wouldn't it make more sense for a creator to be female?...
> [snapback]866449[/snapback]​


If that's the way you feel; then it WOULD make more sense baby









At least you are giving this some of your own though









Pac


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## crazyklown89 (Aug 28, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> If that's the way you feel; then it WOULD make more sense baby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you coming on to Acestro?


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

when you think of it, what the best thing man-kind can do? exxagerate, thats what.....whos to say over the thousands of years, stories about god, jesus, and the bible hadnt been exaggerated?


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Very interesting reading. There has been alot of good stuff said in this thread, and there has been alot of uneducated crap-o-la in this thread as well.

Here is the problem, there is never going to be an answer to this debate. Those of us that believe in God do so out of faith. Come on...there ain't one of us that can actually "prove" the exsistance of God. It comes down to a matter of faith.

BUT...when someone says that they believe in evolution, that takes just as much faith, if not more. Even Darwin denounced evolution before he died. It statistically is just impossible. But to someone that does not believe in the Bible or God, creation is just as statiscically impossible.

For me, I do not feel that I am here on this earth to save your soul. That is God's job. I am here to teach, lead, instruct, and encourage...both those who believe and those that don't in things of the Bible.

I am not going to back down with what I believe. I will not shove what I believe down your throat. I have a tattoo, I have been in alot of fights (won some, horribly lost some), I have a temper problem that I went to counseling for three years for. I am no different than any of you on this board. I am not a child molester, I don't steal peoples money through the church, I do not hate homosexuals, people of different color, muslims, or anyone else for that matter.

The difference between me and some of you is what I believe and am willing to die for. My faith. When people that call themselves Christians allow what they beleive to become a barrier between them and others, they have turned their backs on EVERYTHING the Bible stands for. Take Peacock for example....he always says "f*ck the Church". Why did he get this way? How did he get this attitude? Most likely from Christians that were acting in "the name of the Lord". Give me a break. To Peacock I say, I apologize for the idiots that treated you poorly. For anyone to hate Christianity, there has to be a jerk-wad "Christian" that got them that way!

Those are the kinds of people that give Christianity a bad name. God knows I can't stand people like that. I could go on for hours on this subject...so I will end here.

Mr. Harley - Someday when I get my HD Fatboy (saving away!), I would be honored to go out riding with you! You say things in the right way...we could all learn from that...Believers and Non-Believers both!

Just my thoughts...flame away,

Jeffrey


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

mypiranhas said:


> Any proof that God exists?.... the Muslim Koran, which is basically the same story as the Bible, except less sensationalist and it was written by one guy (mohammed) in a relatively short period of time and so it is more cohesive and consistent than bible..... it says: "Be grateful that there is NO proof of the existence of God, for if there was you would not be able to receive the reward for believeing in that which is not seen"
> 
> ya gotta admit that's very clever.
> [snapback]864072[/snapback]​



















are u muslim too?....and mohammad wrote it...but its gods words not his


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

...


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Very well put. But why do evolution and the bible have to be at ends with each other? Why can't the creation story be a way that God explained his actions to early man? Or just that - a story that he told.
> [snapback]866689[/snapback]​


There are people that feel that evolution is the means in which God created the earth. The problem comes in for those that believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and is literal in its translation, encompassing all for mankind.

Then when you believe that, it says that God created everything in six days, and on the seventh he rested. It also states that there was night and day, a 24 hour period. So add all that up and there is no way that someone who believes the Bible is to be taken literally (such as myself) can believe in evolution.

BUT...that does not mean that we should belittle people on what they believe, if someone does believe in evolution. Believing in evolution or not is NOT what gets you in or out of heaven...so why argue about it (in my mind anyways)?

Hope that answers your question.

Jeffrey


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Believing in evolution or not is NOT what gets you in or out of heaven...so why argue about it (in my mind anyways)?
> 
> Jeffrey
> [snapback]866727[/snapback]​


Great point!

I'm proud to be called a son of God and (evolutionist) are proud to be called son of a monkey. Go figure!


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

with so many out there how do you know what is the right one to go with

and just sayin faith really doesnt seem to cut it with me


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

i believe in god i just dont have religion.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> I am not a child molester, I don't steal peoples money through the church, I do not hate homosexuals, people of different color, muslims, or anyone else for that matter.


Kiddies, this guy sounds legit. The above is ALL that matters. My only quarrel with ANY form of organized religion is that it groups people together and intentionally and unintentionally forces them to hate those not belonging to that group. If you can have your own beliefs, not impose them on others and live a life where you accept ALL other types of people; you are cool with me.

Pac


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

rchan11 said:


> Great point!
> 
> I'm proud to be called a son of God and (evolutionist) are proud to be called son of a monkey. Go figure!
> [snapback]866739[/snapback]​


lmao so true


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> Kiddies, this guy sounds legit. The above is ALL that matters. My only quarrel with ANY form of organized religion is that it groups people together and intentionally and unintentionally forces them to hate those not belonging to that group. If you can have your own beliefs, not impose them on others and live a life where you accept ALL other types of people; you are cool with me.
> 
> Pac
> [snapback]866802[/snapback]​


Religion does not by any means force it's followers to hate all others who don't follow that religion. It is the extremists and the people who don't even study scripture who go on hating those who don't beleive what they do. Most religion's teach not to hate others, but to love them unconditionally, as they are a creation of that religions god, just as you would be if you were a follower of that religion.

As to your suggestion of accepting all types of people, i see two problems:
1) You will not accept someone who commits crime against you or someone you love as an equal to someone you love.
2) Saying you are intolerant of people in organised religion and then saying to accept all people equally is hypocritical
Revise your arguments.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> Religion does not by any means force it's followers to hate all others who don't follow that religion. It is the extremists and the people who don't even study scripture who go on hating those who don't beleive what they do. Most religion's teach not to hate others, but to love them unconditionally, as they are a creation of that religions god, just as you would be if you were a follower of that religion.
> 
> As to your suggestion of accepting all types of people, i see two problems:
> 1) You will not accept someone who commits crime against you or someone you love as an equal to someone you love.
> ...


Sure I'll revise em to better depict my stance.

1) I will accept all of those whom respect others for who they are. Failure to do so will result in social repression.

2) See above.

Happy?









Anyways, regarding your comments about religion not generating a social group that judges and ultimately creates conflict, I think you have to think of the bigger picture. Man has a primal need to belong. There are, however, those who never belong to certain groups that society deems "normal" because that's just the way they are, or they just wish not to belong. They are thus outcasts of society. The same goes for any group, whether it be nationalism, organized religion or even the family unit.

Pac


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

Saying you'll accept someone for who they are, but won't except someone who doesn't subscribe to your standards isn't really accepting that person for they are.








EDIT:
Human beings strive for unity, its in their nature. Those who seek to not belong actually do belong to the group who shares their beleifs. They just look for unity somewhere else.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Good stuff. CK, Pac's not coming on to me, he speaks in a Austin Powers kind of way sometimes (I hope!







).

As for worrying about Peacock, I wouldn't even bother Pastor Jeff, he'll do anything for attention.



> Very interesting reading. There has been alot of good stuff said in this thread, and there has been alot of uneducated crap-o-la in this thread as well.


That's p-fury in a nutshell!!!









And for taking the bible literally.... I'm not sure if you can, first of all. Secondly, I don't think faith and belief in the age of the Earth are the two most important things in religion. I didn't want to jump in but I have so here's my way of defining things.

You have

SCIENCE and FAITH

evidence beliefs

physical metaphysical

natural supernatural

By their own definitions they dont define each other. I think those that take the bible too literally (and maybe spend too little time on the important messages) are a little lost. Just like I think scientists who think atheism is their faith, because of analytical thinking, are quite lost.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> Even Darwin denounced evolution before he died. It statistically is just impossible.


I could go a whole 'nother thread on this one, however.... Not statistically impossible. As for Darwin's doubts, that doesn't interest me, if he lived a few years longer or read what Gregor Mendel sent him, he would have seen how the field of genetics was about to solidify his theory. Can you imagine coming up with that theory before Mendel's work? Kind of amazing (but a little off topic, sorry).

Faith and science are both things of beauty. Problem is, there are ugly folk in both 'fields', and a lot of them are looking for an opponent. Really silly I think.


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## PygoManiac (Jul 26, 2004)

I dont doubt the existence of a supernatural being which might be the creator or the eternal GOD, we dont have concrete scientific evidence to prove either way, so it doesnt matter whether you believe or not, all that matters is whether it helps you live your life or get sleep at night. Also I dont believe in good or bad and I dont think god does either, because you see there isnt anything that's bad, its just that what we call bad is something which triggers an emotion called sorrow in us which is purely scientific. So I totally disbelieve religion, which kinda tries to be descriptive about something which is yet to be proved scientifically. So there's a 50% chance that god exists.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> How do you feel about Odin and/or Zeus looking down at us as well? Don't go posting assumptions that your thoughts are verified whereas someone elses aren't.
> Pac
> [snapback]866354[/snapback]​


tell me how your assumptions are verified, why because thier coming from you? who is anyone to prove to you there is a god..give me one solid piece of evidence there isn't.. and save the "because how could he just stand by and watch bad sh*t happen" bullshit because from what i know thats the beauty of life, freedom to chose right or wrong with out him having a hand in it.. although i myself am not a church goer i do strongly believe in god.. and have my own relationship with him. i feel heaven is what you make it and hell is what you go through, it is up to you to believe or not believe.. but i think you should take some of your own advice.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

channafreak said:


> The creationism vs. evolution debate again.
> 
> Ill pose this question. Can there be a differing level of involvement between both? Does god infact touch/control every aspect of life like some beleive, or is his involvemet almost nothing. Like a watch. Someone had to build the watch. construct a case, make gears and levers, then masterfully design how all the peices and parts will fit together to make it keep correct time. The watch is given away or sold. The watchmaker dosent keep the watch running. He dosent set it to the proper time or change batteries. If its kinetic he dosent keep it in motion to keep it running. For every answer there questions behind it. Unbiased thinking will keep us in a wealth of knowledge in both areas. Is this blend impossible......
> 
> ...


Thank you, i agree with your position and your information is taken with a grain of salt, but your view is shared. I now know how to co-exist with my god and beliefs, i look to him and he guides. The funny thing is, my statement is perfect in what im trying to say, but people have already started to doubt what i meant, because they think "you cant Talk to god... " build a relationship with him, then tell me after 10 years you cant talk to him, he exists, but not everyone will be joining him... which is why were living on earth, to see what life could be like if god didnt value us so much in heaven.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

PacmanXSA said:


> Sure I'll revise em to better depict my stance.
> 
> 1) I will accept all of those whom respect others for who they are. Failure to do so will result in social repression.
> 
> ...


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Liquid said:


> tell me how your assumptions are verified, why because thier coming from you? who is anyone to prove to you there is a god..give me one solid piece of evidence there isn't.. and save the "because how could he just stand by and watch bad sh*t happen" bullshit because from what i know thats the beauty of life, freedom to chose right or wrong with out him having a hand in it.. although i myself am not a church goer i do strongly believe in god.. and have my own relationship with him. i feel heaven is what you make it and hell is what you go through, it is up to you to believe or not believe.. but i think you should take some of your own advice.
> [snapback]867169[/snapback]​


Cmon big guy, read my post. The lines you quoted were but a snip. The sentance RIGHT AFTER proves your whole argument wrong. This is the one:



> How do you feel about Odin and/or Zeus looking down at us as well? Don't go posting assumptions that your thoughts are verified whereas someone elses aren't. There is no point in posting in this thread seeing as no one can prove anything. I just don't understand why people here believe what other people tell them (ie all forms of organized religion) instead of deciphering something for themselves.


There's the whole thing. Please note that I advocate figuring things out for youself instead of believing what your family, friends and society impose on you. If someone told you that there was an ancient magician named Merlin that lived several thousands of years ago, but had nothing to do with religion or the guilty conscience, I guarantee you that yourself and the majority of society would reject the notion. So why do a lot of people follow organized religion? Because they know no alternative. Think about this topic without considering ANY form of organized religion; THAT my friend, is faith.

PS: Filo, you're my man









Pac


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## WorldBelow07 (Dec 16, 2004)

haha filo


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> I advocate figuring things out for youself instead of believing what your family, friends and society impose on you.


Otherwise we all just end up following the most aggressively campaigned for religions. This brings up something that really irks me, missionaries. Missionaries have done wonderful things and helped many people, but the basic concept of shoving your religion down someone else's throat....


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Who in his later years had gone completely insane from the syphilis eating at his brain...
> 
> Not to say anything against nietzsche or whatever, just thought it should be pointed out


I believe the last state of "intelligence and knowledge" is insanity. Not that i believe it's good, but I believe that's how it is


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## wayne.140 (Jan 23, 2005)

If someone wants to beleive in god let them do so just dont come knocking on my door telling me about him. Keep it in the churches that what i say


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

PacmanXSA said:


> Cmon big guy, read my post. The lines you quoted were but a snip. The sentance RIGHT AFTER proves your whole argument wrong. This is the one:
> There's the whole thing. Please note that I advocate figuring things out for youself instead of believing what your family, friends and society impose on you. If someone told you that there was an ancient magician named Merlin that lived several thousands of years ago, but had nothing to do with religion or the guilty conscience, I guarantee you that yourself and the majority of society would reject the notion. So why do a lot of people follow organized religion? Because they know no alternative. Think about this topic without considering ANY form of organized religion; THAT my friend, is faith.
> 
> PS: Filo, you're my man
> ...


let see im still a bit drunk so i'll take a deep breath and leave it at this.. your gonna compare jesus to merlin and tell me what i believe is wrong and you have it all figured out, and because you dont see something magical happening in the sky then logically there is no god..







you have alot to learn, maybe not in grammer but at life its clear your still wet behind the ears, but at least you believe your own bullshit, someone has to .. i do not believe in god because i have to, if anything believing in god goes against my very being as i am the complete opposite to your average church goer and my christian life basically consists of jesus forgives and is perfect, i don't, and am far from it.. the way i've lived my life in the past and certain traits that i still carry with me today, if i didn't have a choice, i'd be lead to believe that i wasn't on decent terms with god..but it doesn't threaten me how he sees me. i dont know it all ,but i know he loves me for my individuality and my choice to being a bishop rather then a pawn when faced with any opstical and if he doesn't see me that way, then oh well, why create a force and give him free will and not expect conflict in uhhhh :laugh: views

see i come to relize and agnowledge that, that little voice or feeling inside me that always tryed to persway me to do the right thing is the little piece of him that he gave to all of us along with life..







sh*t i know its not me because im not that nice of a guy and my remourse has been uhh basically lacking, i feel the piece of him he gave me is only thier to set the bar, but i cant deny it and refuse it no matter how much i disagree. the trials i've had in my life, i've never failed, a setback here and there but it wouldn't take long for me to make it happen.. and not one time did i ever ask for gods help, on my sons, even when faced with death i welcomed it even though now i know i was being reeeaall ignorant in doing so, but you get the picture basically didn't give a f*ck.. but regardless he was always there f*cking with me and whether i'd listen up or do what the hell i wanted to anyway, he never turned his back and i know this because hes so friggin persistant and just when i thought i saw it all and thought that nothing could fade me or make me happy he blessed me with a beautiful loving wife (2 words i thought could never go together







) who shocks me everyday just to witness her selflessness and unconditional love, and two healthy boys. my own family that i never knew i could enjoy. and everyday they teach me how to love and at least try not to be so selfish and maybe try being kind. she makes me want to be a good person deep inside, its like i want what she has, that bliss of just being simple and a good person.

since i 1st met her before we got married i always looked for that one thing so i could label her and make her a statistic. but for many years i could not find that 1 excuse







so i had to marry her. she may not know this but she has taught me more about life, what matters in life then anyone or thing i've ever experienced, and for god to put that angel from my shoulder to right there in front of me, lol especially an animal such as my self







, yeeeaaahh i got evil.... thats all the proof i need. so regardless if whether he disagrees or agrees with me and my decision making, i'll never deny him nor patronize him, to me thats the beauty of life, god and the relationship between the two. thiers only so much you can explain with logic and science and then you have to take a real close look at the mirror.


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## marco (Jan 2, 2003)

come on guys.....

everyone knows that i am god.

jeeeeeeeeez


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

I don't think pac was denying God, just questioning guilt based and imposing religions. Try alka seltzer cold for the hang over :laugh:


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

Liquid said:


> let see im still a bit drunk so i'll take a deep breath and leave it at this.. your gonna compare jesus to merlin and tell me what i believe is wrong and you have it all figured out, and because you dont see something magical happening in the sky then logically there is no god..:laugh: you have alot to learn, maybe not in grammer but at life its clear your still wet behind the ears, but at least you believe your own bullshit, someone has to .. i do not believe in god because i have to, if anything believing in god goes against my very being as i am the complete opposite to your average church goer and my christian life basically consists of jesus forgives and is perfect, i don't, and am far from it.. the way i've lived my life in the past and certain traits that i still carry with me today, if i didn't have a choice, i'd be lead to believe that i wasn't on decent terms with god..but it doesn't threaten me how he sees me. i dont know it all ,but i know he loves me for my individuality and my choice to being a bishop rather then a pawn when faced with any opstical and if he doesn't see me that way, then oh well, why create a force and give him free will and not expect conflict in uhhhh :laugh: views
> [snapback]869905[/snapback]​


The comparison between Merlin and Jesus was basically there in order to exaggerate my point. I do not deny the _possibility_ of YOUR god, however I do not deny the possibility of ANY god (Buddha, Odin, Zeus, etc). That's all up in the air.

However, the big thing that I'm trying to say is that organized religion fills your head with what someone ELSE wants you to think instead of what your own being seeks for answers. As I stated earlier, sit back, clear your mind of everything you think of now when it comes to religion and see what comes to you. I guarantee you that you won't be thinking of a cross or some guy supposedly being ressurected. Organized religion is typically something that is imposed on children at an early age; whether they follow it then or not. You said that your religion came on you at a latter stage of your life. Do you know anything about other forms of organized religion? Probably not, so you went along with what you knew; some sort of christian faith.

With regards to your wife and kids, congrats! I'm glad to see people that have had sub par lives growing up but to see joy in the later parts of their lives.

Pac


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

wayne.140 said:


> If someone wants to beleive in god let them do so just dont come knocking on my door telling me about him. Keep it in the churches that what i say
> [snapback]869231[/snapback]​


My thoughts exactly, except for the part that religious people should restrict their practices and beliefs to within church walls. I don't mind people "marketing" their beliefs, trying to convert others, as long as it happens on a voluntary basis - if believers spread leaflets on market places, keep symposiums, use the media etc. to spead their message, I don't see any problem. Vital is that people can *choose* to do whatever they want, wheter that is being/becoming a member of a church, or not.

And even more important - keep religion out of politics. As soon as the two mix, beliefs and practices only a certain degree of the population support are imposed on those that follow their own personal, or different moral standards - and that goes fundamentally against the concept of a free society.
That applies to Christianity as much as Islam, Judaism and all other religions.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

the MAIN thing to learn in the Bible is: We were created immortal (by eating from the tree of life) to worship and fellowship with our Creator God, who is holy and perfect. He gave us life, and a world to live in.. Therefore worthy of our praise and worship. (how did you get here?)

Then we disobeyed Him, and we were cursed by God back to the ground from which we came from. We had to be cursed back to the ground, because sin stained all life on earth, and it must be destroyed.

God is holy and can not tolerate anything that is impure. So, out of pure love, He must destroy His creation. *now for the good news, or the *Gospel!

He promised that if we accept His son, the Messiah, who was beaten and crucified (killed) for our sins in which separates us from our Creator, and believe that God resurrected Him from the grave on the 3rd day, and search after Him with all our heart and strength, He will accept us and send us to a place that He created for us that is pure, called heaven, after these bodies die.

Any questions??


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## Memphis (Apr 26, 2003)

jesus christ my lord and savior


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

Allah my lord


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

why?! why bring this up again?!









for my opinion on this thread please read my sig.....


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

this is why hes going to hell ...

1. cuz hes ugly as f*ck
2. cuz he does thet devil worshipping sh*t


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Y'all should read the book entitled Ishmael
Really wild point of view of humanity and the bible


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> the MAIN thing to learn in the Bible is: We were created immortal (by eating from the tree of life) to worship and fellowship with our Creator God, who is holy and perfect. He gave us life, and a world to live in.. Therefore worthy of our praise and worship. (how did you get here?)
> 
> Then we disobeyed Him, and we were cursed by God back to the ground from which we came from. We had to be cursed back to the ground, because sin stained all life on earth, and it must be destroyed.
> 
> ...


Just one. Why do you think your view is any more right than any other view?

A shame that I continue with this craziness!


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

lemmywinks said:


> why?! why bring this up again?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Newbie


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Y'all should read the book entitled Ishmael
> Really wild point of view of humanity and the bible
> [snapback]935267[/snapback]​


I like The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan. I still need a few books anyone want to send me from 8 up?


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## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

I cried alittle when I saw this thread had resurfaced.


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> lemmywinks said:
> 
> 
> > why?! why bring this up again?! :laugh:
> ...


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

K fizzly said:


> this is why hes going to hell ...
> 
> 1. cuz hes ugly as f*ck
> 2. cuz he does thet devil worshipping sh*t
> [snapback]935266[/snapback]​


What makes you so sure there is a hell?









damn i hate this thread


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

I once fell down and hit my head.


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## FreakyAcidTripper (Dec 7, 2004)

someone mentioned before about non belivers going to hell, thats funny because jesus was a jew, and not a christian jews and christians have diffrent beliefs, so did jesus go to hell as well for not beliving?

how about this one, Adam and Eve, I don't know what kind of sick f*ck created this theory but thats just wrong, and if that is the case does that make all of us humans inbreds? how do you all like laying down at night f*cking your relatives? and such IMO thats just wrong.

after reading that you were probably quick to judge that I didnt belive in god, eh? the thing is I do belive in god, just not the bible as some person wrote that.

theres things that cannot be explained by science, such as ghosts, ectoplasim, and other oaranormal things of the sort, perhaps if one or two people have seen them it'd be a diffrent story, but when you think of the amountage thats way to much for them to all be "crazy".

although El twitcho had said something about the dude later going insane, that could be because theres a fine line between genious and insanity I'm almost certain that a few of the people who were known for being geniouses went insane.


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## cdavis179 (Feb 23, 2005)

I don't understand nonbelievers at all.

Nothing to lose.....EVERYTHING to gain.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

There was a study that people who prayed got sick less often than those who dont.


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## cmsCheerFish (Dec 17, 2004)

gods the man if you want me to get an argument proving there is such gimme a pm, we've had an athiest convert infront of our own eyes in my church.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

cdavis179 said:


> I don't understand nonbelievers at all.
> 
> Nothing to lose.....EVERYTHING to gain.
> [snapback]935426[/snapback]​


How can you loose if you don't believe?









I really don't understand those phrases: why use things people don't believe in as an argument? It's so pointless.

I mean, no matter what believers will, say I cannot, will not go to Hell and burn for eternity nor to Heaven, wheter I live my heretic live to the fullest or not - why? Very simple, I don't believe in afterlive, Heaven, Hell, etc. When I die, my body simply ceases to function, is then buried or cremated, humanity will mourn for 9 consecetive months, and then it's all over and forgotten...

It's as dumb as saying to a Christian he'll go to heaven, get 40-something virgins, a pond of milk and the whole shabang if he gives his live for his faith, or telling a hardcore bible-thumper Bonobo's are our brothers, except for a few rogue genes....


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

I'm a realist, therefore I don't believe in organised religion.

I respect the beliefs of those who do, because some people simply need something to help keep them going in life. I mean, if you were of a strong character you wouldn't need 'spiritual' guidance, nor would you need to believe that your time spent here is a test of some kind.

Religion is full of holes, and inaccuracies, simply because it was created by Man. And we all know how stupid we all are.

I mean, if we're supposed to believe all that we're told, and that priests are doing the will of God - so by that mark, God molests little boys.
And God's representitive on Earth, the pope, condones it and simply moves the peado priests to a new parish.
Sounds like God is a corrupt mother f*cker.

Now it may seem like I'm an asshole, but I used to be a christian, and thank "God" I saw sense.
Religion offers a comfort for people, and while I would like that I can't be a part of anything ass corrupt and morally polluted as organised religion.

Just about every war on this planet has been the result of religious differences, and all the ones that weren't, really were
So, if we're all supposed to love each other and get on, we're doing a pretty bad job. Considering all our holy books are open to interpretation, and this is often used to push/convince people to do things that would contravene the said books.

Also, who the f*ck is going to sit here and tell me that Heaven and Hell exist? Please, I could do with a chuckle









If I were in charge religion would be outlawed, but if a religious nut was in, it'd be compulsory. There's too much arrogance and complete conviction that we, in ourselves, are right.

mayeb you religious guys should respect those who choose not to follow the same paedophillic murdering God.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

^^ so whats with the angel pic in your sig lol...


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

cdavis179 said:


> I don't understand nonbelievers at all.
> 
> Nothing to lose.....EVERYTHING to gain.
> [snapback]935426[/snapback]​


Nothing to lose ? Speak for yourself - but I watch football on Sundays









Well, unless it's not football season, then there's basketball and video games, and about a million other things I'd rather do than pray


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

LOgan said:


> I'm a realist, therefore I don't believe in organised religion.
> 
> I respect the beliefs of those who do, because some people simply need something to help keep them going in life. I mean, if you were of a strong character you wouldn't need 'spiritual' guidance, nor would you need to believe that your time spent here is a test of some kind.
> 
> ...


If you were a realist, your post would be almost exactly opposite. You sound like more of a skeptic/moral relatavist.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> after reading that you were probably quick to judge that I didnt belive in god, eh? the thing is I do belive in god, just not the bible as some person wrote that.
> 
> theres things that cannot be explained by science, such as ghosts, ectoplasim, and other oaranormal things of the sort, perhaps if one or two people have seen them it'd be a diffrent story, but when you think of the amountage thats way to much for them to all be "crazy".


Good points but I'll go one better. There's BASIC things about the natural universe that seem beyond our understanding. Organized religion is indeed flawed, largely because it is tainted by human agendas.



> It's as dumb as saying to a Christian he'll go to heaven, get 40-something virgins, a pond of milk and the whole shabang if he gives his live for his faith, or telling a hardcore bible-thumper Bonobo's are our brothers, except for a few rogue genes....


A pond of milk







On the side I'd like to argue how rogue those genes are but that'd be a severe digression.







I really dont see why god and evolution cant both be believed in. There's no benefit or profit from the established organized religions I guess...



> There was a study that people who prayed got sick less often than those who dont.


All I gotta say is show me the data (and the scientific journal that it was published in)


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

Fido said:


> ^^ so whats with the angel pic in your sig lol...
> [snapback]935715[/snapback]​


Do your homework. It's the Angel of Death. Notice the parody using the lyrics from a popular song by a great band.

The whole image is symbolic.

It means what it means to you, it means what it means to me.

<3


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> If you were a realist, your post would be almost exactly opposite. You sound like more of a skeptic/moral relatavist.
> [snapback]935751[/snapback]​


The realist definition is so often abused. I dont know if I ever met a realist.


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

acestro said:


> I really dont see why god and evolution cant both be believed in.
> [snapback]935755[/snapback]​


You hit the nail on the head. I honestly don't understand why people see science and God as enemies.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

> If you were a realist, your post would be almost exactly opposite. You sound like more of a skeptic/moral relatavist.


Definition of *Realist*:

1. A philosopher who believes that universals are real and exist independently of anyone thinking of them.

2. A person who accepts the world as it literally is and deals with it accordingly.

3. A painter who represents the world realistically and not in an idealized or romantic style.

I don't see myself as much of a philosopher, but I'd say number two was true of me in a direct sense, and number 3 is true in a metaphorical sense.

Whereas,

*What is moral relativism?*

Moral relativism says that there are no objective normative facts, and what is right or wrong is relative to particular societies or persons, or moral frameworks or perspectives. For example, clitoridectomy, the mutilation of the sexual organ of a young female, is practiced in certain communities in Africa and the Middle East. It causes a lot of pain and often has long term psychological and health consequences. Should such a practice be banned? A relativist will say that clitoridectomy is only wrong when see from a Western liberal perspective. But it is quite alright relative to certain African or Middle Eastern traditional belief systems. There is no objective answer as to whether it is right or wrong, whether it should or should not be banned. Before continuing, you might want to try out this test :

Are you moral beliefs consistent?

My score:

*Your overall position is inconsistent, as you accept both relativism and moral objectivity!*

No, sorry, by definition I am a realist - it's not relative to me whetehr you should be allowed to commit an immoral act. We should all know what is right and wrong as far as the major no-no's of our society, but people are still abusing their rights in our society. No-one is to blame except us, you can't say crime is terrible and proceed to lock up all the ******, you need to locate the reason why young black males are more likely to commit crimes than other groups. The reason is the class divide and the massive injustice in society today. Once people's ideas change, then they can have this Utopia they dream of where it's only white and christian. And God looks like Wille Nelson.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> acestro said:
> 
> 
> > I really dont see why god and evolution cant both be believed in.
> ...


Because, in every face off:

*Science > God*


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

LOgan said:


> Umbilical Syllables said:
> 
> 
> > acestro said:
> ...


...no. You know why? Because the physical cannot define the metaphysical, and vice-versa. This is coming from someone with two degrees in "science"


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Oh, and by the way, the natural cant define the supernatural and vice-versa....


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

...did I mention that faith and science are separately defined entities?....

In all seriousness it's about thinking outside the box, something I tried to pound into Peacock (I think it was Peacock) a while back. Thinking just with logic confines you to the logical realm. Does that mean that the only realm in all existance is the logical one? My answer would be WE DONT KNOW. Why? It's getting paradoxical here (which is good! ), you're using logic as the only source to defend that logic is the only realm. Good stuff, is it not?


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

I think this is the point at which Plato adopted duelism :laugh:


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

But if there is no evidence, and the only way we can prove something is by using a strict line of logic then surely anything suggested without, or lacking in, logic cannot ever be proved and therefore boils down to your opinion, and we all know what an opinion is like..


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

LOgan said:


> But if there is no evidence, and the only way we can prove something is by using a strict line of logic then surely anything suggested without, or lacking in, logic cannot ever be proved and therefore boils down to your opinion, and we all know what an opinion is like..
> [snapback]935783[/snapback]​


So there is nothing more than proving, evidence, and opinion?

Also, are there truths that fall beyond the limits of what we can prove? I know there are scientific truths that fall there.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Umbilical Syllables said:


> I think this is the point at which Plato adopted duelism :laugh:
> [snapback]935782[/snapback]​


Good point. So many people forget him because his stuff is so old. What a shame! Sartre can kiss my arse.


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## 130tank (Dec 21, 2004)

I dont care!





















:beer:


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

130tank said:


> I dont care!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and ignorance is still bliss apparently...


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## Blitz023 (Feb 19, 2004)

I dont really care about what all you people think. All I know is God exists and I feel Him with me and its a great feeling, knowing that your life is well guided and knowing that everything happened in my life happened for a reason. All that's being said here is just for the moment. We will all know when the right time comes in. LOL, best pastors i know are the first ones to hate God. Maybe some of the non-beleivers here will be a pastor someday.
Just enjoy life....with God of course.


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom (Dec 21, 2003)

Some dont believe in God tho... and does it matter if "god" is different to me than to you? meaning a different being all together...?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

acestro said:


> DiPpY eGgS said:
> 
> 
> > the MAIN thing to learn in the Bible is: We were created immortal (by eating from the tree of life) to worship and fellowship with our Creator God, who is holy and perfect. He gave us life, and a world to live in.. Therefore worthy of our praise and worship. (how did you get here?)
> ...


That is not my opinion, that is what the Bible teaches in a quick basic overview.

If you meant why do I believe in the Bible, and have faith in Jesus Christ, it is because of my personal experiences after accepting Him as my Lord and Savior. Absolutely incredible change in my life after I accepted Him. Amazing. I will never deny Him after what He has done for me.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

LOgan said:


> Umbilical Syllables said:
> 
> 
> > acestro said:
> ...


Science doesnt know everything. Does science know there isnt other life out there? Does science know how the earth became earth? no. THere are theories but no hard facts. sorry, but its hard to sway one way or the other.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

Fido said:


> LOgan said:
> 
> 
> > Umbilical Syllables said:
> ...


Already covered this Fido...



> That is not my opinion, that is what the Bible teaches in a quick basic overview.
> 
> If you meant why do I believe in the Bible, and have faith in Jesus Christ, it is because of my personal experiences after accepting Him as my Lord and Savior. Absolutely incredible change in my life after I accepted Him. Amazing. I will never deny Him after what He has done for me.


That's fantastic, I'm happy for you. Should I be less happy for the Zen monks in Japan who acheive a higher level of being when they acheive satori (nirvana)?



> I dont really care about what all you people think. All I know is God exists and I feel Him with me and its a great feeling, knowing that your life is well guided and knowing that everything happened in my life happened for a reason. All that's being said here is just for the moment. We will all know when the right time comes in. LOL, best pastors i know are the first ones to hate God. Maybe some of the non-beleivers here will be a pastor someday.
> Just enjoy life....with God of course.


Is anyone trying to sway your beliefs? I actually do care what you think, it is all interesting. Why does examination of faith seem to arouse these _seemingly _insecure responses of contention? You guys shouldn't be afraid of self-examination or of other people examining faith or philosophy.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

> That is not my opinion, that is what the Bible teaches in a quick basic overview.
> 
> If you meant why do I believe in the Bible, and have faith in Jesus Christ, it is because of my personal experiences after accepting Him as my Lord and Savior. Absolutely incredible change in my life after I accepted Him. Amazing. I will never deny Him after what He has done for me.


That's fantastic, I'm happy for you. Should I be less happy for the Zen monks in Japan who acheive a higher level of being when they acheive satori (nirvana)?

with all respect, I am talking about eternal life here, not some "higher level of being." They can do what they want to achive what they think is bliss for them, but it doesn't change the fact that Jesus Christ holds the keys to death and hades, and none come to the Father but by Him. Truth isn't relative, that applies to physics.
I choose to build my house on solid rock, not sinking sand


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## cdavis179 (Feb 23, 2005)

what I was saying is I guess that if you do believe and it is true, salvation is yours, if it is not true, then no harm done..... I'm dead anyway.

But if you puposely don't believe and its true then you might be screwed.

thats all i was saying.

btw, church is only from 11:00 am to 11:45 am. I am/was able to watch every game of my beloved cleveland clowns. I got to watch them run around the field and seem to play some sort of unknown variation of football.







Oh well.


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## PacmanXSA (Nov 15, 2004)

f*ck, I didn't wanna post in here again seeing as no one really addressed my earlier points, however this LOgan guy entrigues me









We shall commence with this quote:



> We should all know what is right and wrong as far as the major no-no's of our society, but people are still abusing their rights in our society.


Before this line, I was with ya baby, however you attempted to define the morality (Which is unique to each person) in a general sense. Morality is the fundamental issue when dealing with hthe beloved "Organized Religions" topic. As I'm sure you already know, morality is basically the foundation of beliefs generated by the individual. Now, if we were to accept this as true, you stating that everyone should know what the big "no no's" of society are, is truly incomprehensible. Heck, there are total classes and degrees of philosophy that get into morality...

Now, if we tie this concept into organized religion, we can define the problem; children are led through a set path in which they are exposed but to one form of supposed faith or someone feels the need to give themselves to an external grouping because they feel that they need somewhere to belong. Organized religion is nothing other than a safety blanket for most, or a means of social grouping, in which I discussed was a fundamental problem with human nature.

Now, to make a general statement of my beliefs for the new discussion at hand, I'll basically go ahead and state this:

Faith is *NOT* organized religion. Organized religion is for followers who haven't looked to *THEMSELVES* for answers. People need to answer personal questions for themselves instead of believing in the Odin, Jesus, The Budha or whatever bullshit you wanna think. Organized religion simply leads to pitting one group against another which inevitably leads to social unrest, which leads to war.

Please comment in an intelligible way, or don't comment at all. I am not a "devil" worshiper, nor will I ever accept the body of Christ, but if you believe in the afterlife and you've thought out how YOU think it's going to be; I'll fight for that belief.

Pac


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

*Very Good Site For*  people who would

appreciate it


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

"Before this line, I was with ya baby, however you attempted to define the morality (Which is unique to each person) in a general sense. Morality is the fundamental issue when dealing with hthe beloved "Organized Religions" topic. As I'm sure you already know, morality is basically the foundation of beliefs generated by the individual. Now, if we were to accept this as true, you stating that everyone should know what the big "no no's" of society are, is truly incomprehensible. Heck, there are total classes and degrees of philosophy that get into morality..."

all respect given to you, but all truth is absolute. It has to be. there is right and wrong period. there is what is true and what is not true in all things. 2 plus 2 is always 4. not 3 for Johnny and 5 for Sally sometimes. Killing in cold blood is always wrong. Forgiving someone who wrongs you always produces a better outcome than brewing in unforgiveness. Protecting a loved one from some ill-concieved violence is always better than letting them be victimized. Giving and/or helping someone who can't return the favor always is a good thing. The theory of reletivity applies to physics.

I know this is what society at large wants you to believe.

In my "opinion" this new teaching that truth is relative comes from people who don't want to believe themselves to be wrong, hence their pride. If my statement is absolutely wrong, that would still mean truth is absolute


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

I believe in God and Jesus. Nothing more to explain.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

"Faith is NOT organized religion. Organized religion is for followers who haven't looked to THEMSELVES for answers. People need to answer personal questions for themselves instead of believing in the Odin, Jesus, The Budha or whatever bullshit you wanna think. Organized religion simply leads to pitting one group against another which inevitably leads to social unrest, which leads to war.

Please comment in an intelligible way, or don't comment at all. I am not a "devil" worshiper, nor will I ever accept the body of Christ, but if you believe in the afterlife and you've thought out how YOU think it's going to be; I'll fight for that belief."

Pac, I appreciate your passion for freedom, I love it too. But what if you are wrong about the "truth is relative" theory? What would you fight for then?

I am all for being graceful to people about what they believe, but at the same time, like I said... truth is most certainly truth, and neither you or I could ever change that.

~10 feet is always 10 feet unless you change the measuring table, and then that what equaled 10 feet is still 10 feet.

We know not from which we came, so we can not just simply believe whatever we want to, and that would be what is true for us.

IF going to heaven for YOU requires blowing yourself, and others up for allah, or reaching zen, or knocking on doors and bugging people about jehova, or rubbing budah's belly, or realizing you are a hopeless fallen man who needs to repent of your immoral ways and accept the atoning blood of Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior by His grace to reconcile you back to Creator God, only one thing is the truth.

How can we, with our own little finite minds make up a huge truth -like how to get to God in heaven- by simply making up our own belief? I want to be graceful to people's beliefs, but again.... only one thing can be true about who God is, and what gets us right with Him.

I hope that you seek Him and His truth with all of your heart!! ~I know where I will be spending eternity. My spirit is now ready for the afterlife! Thank you Lord! ~ By His grace I am saved! WOO-HOO!!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

eL ChiNo LoCo said:


> I believe in God and Jesus. Nothing more to explain.
> [snapback]938349[/snapback]​


Hallelujah!!


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## piranahjones (Mar 17, 2005)

all of youe brains r just to small and STUPID to comprehend that God dose exist.


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## brybenn (Feb 27, 2004)

i to dont believe in god or a higher being nor the bible for that matter
i never diss ppl for there beliefs but i cant believe in religion myself
but ive read the bible to see what it says to me i found it hypicritical
"i shall not kill" but then it discribes the crusades were they slottered innocent men women n children

and another puzzling argument
the bible made no reference to dinosuars
we all know they exist well did exist we have there fossils that we can prove were here before the so called time of adam n eve
did god put them bones here on earth jsut to piss us off?

if god is real y r there so many religions n diferent races of ppl?

if he is real y does not he provide proof to his followers?

i jsut personaly cant not conceive n believe in a god i cannot see nor feel
ill end this post with a question - how do u tell a young boy or girl to worship a god when the priest of that god sexually mulested them ? how could u tell them to believe in god?


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

piranahjones said:


> all of youe brains r just to small and STUPID to comprehend that God dose exist.
> [snapback]938449[/snapback]​


Does anyone else see the irony in this post?


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

> IF going to heaven for YOU requires blowing yourself, and others up for allah, or reaching zen, or knocking on doors and bugging people about jehova, or rubbing budah's belly, or realizing you are a hopeless fallen man who needs to repent of your immoral ways and accept the atoning blood of Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior by His grace to reconcile you back to Creator God, only one thing is the truth.


Hmmmmm... not biased or anything are you?.... Doesn't exactly sound like you researched these other religions before deciding on what the truth was.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

> So there is nothing more than proving, evidence, and opinion?
> 
> Also, are there truths that fall beyond the limits of what we can prove? I know there are scientific truths that fall there.


If we can't 100% prove it then it will never be accepted as a truth. So please enlighten me to these "unproven scientific truths", for such a thing would surely be a miracle?

And you're right, there is literally nothing more then having an opinion, and proving it (evidence and proof come into the same category - as logically, one cannot exist without the other).
Einstein had an opinion, he proved it. Hitler had an opinion, everyone else proved him wrong.

Just because you can't prove something is no more a reason to believe it than it is to dismiss it.

Sure there's stuff out there we haven't proved yet, but that's mainly limited by what we can physically do at this point in our evolution.
Let's face it, the chances of us surviving long enough to prove or disprove the existance of 'gods' are so slim that everything we say is merely an opinion.
And don't try to tell me about the Bible. I've read it and it's a guidebook. A list of do's and don't's with stories attached in order to bring life to the idea of not stealing, murdering etc.
All good and well when people were animals and lacked the humanity that we (sorry, that some people) have today, and they needed to be told it was wrong.

Living your life by a book that has been in the hands of some of the most unscrupulous individuals doesn't sound liek the smartest thing to do. And then to justify it with *faith*? Hahah. Talk about getting conned.

I'll take my chances here on Earth. In the real world :UberRollEyes:


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## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

brybenn said:


> i to dont believe in god or a higher being nor the bible for that matter
> i never diss ppl for there beliefs but i cant believe in religion myself
> but ive read the bible to see what it says to me i found it hypicritical
> "i shall not kill" but then it discribes the crusades were they slottered innocent men women n children
> ...


Im pretty positive the bible was written well before any crusades. Also, who would you rather have as followers? A person who will die for you regardless of any PROOF of your leadership skills or someone who requires you to perform some great task before giving you their life. That is why God doesnt see fit to provide proof to anyone. If you require proof to beleive in him, then you are not a worthy follower. Once again, I will not state my position on God and such in a forum, because I dont see fit to argue my beliefs on the internet. Im just merely stating that if I were god (if i truly existed or not), thats why I wouldnt show proof of my existance.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

dwarfcat said:


> brybenn said:
> 
> 
> > i to dont believe in god or a higher being nor the bible for that matter
> ...












the crusades started WAAAAY after the bible was written.

i say, let people believe in what they want. as long as it doesn't interfere with my life and they're not pushing they're beliefs onto me...i don't care. i feel sorry for close-minded religious fanatics, but there's nothing i or you can do about it.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

Well, that's the problem, 50% of those who believe in a religion are consistently and constantly pushing their beliefs onto others that, in their eye, need to be saved!

It states in many holy books that those who worship false Gods are lesser than those who worship the diety described in the literature they are currently reading.

Many have even interpreted that to mean you should actively force your religion on those who haven't been 'lucky' enough to 'find' your religion.

f*ck 'em. I've made my bed and I'll lie in it thank you very f*cking much. If I burn in hell while you eat angelic p*ssy in heaven I'll be glad I led a free life on earth. Not constrained by a book that has been re-written more times than I've wiped my ass; not being made to feel guilty because I didn't give my last few bucks to a church so the priest could buy some candy bars to lure more little boys into his chamber-of-molestation.

Ok, so that went off the hook a little, but my arguement remains:

Religion has caused more wars than communism and the United States put together, and that is f*cking saying something. Religion has divided our planet for centuries; it's devoured good souls and turned them into zombies dependant on 'guidance'.

I respect your right to worship a God and practice pagan rituals, but I also expect you to respect my rights to *not* worship any Gods.
I expect the same courtesy I give you when you want to build a church in my area, I want you to allow me to build a strip club, I want you to allow me to build a bar!

If things like this affect religious folks so much, then why doesn't paedophilia bother them that much? And lying? And opinions stated as facts are not truths.. they are opinions. Just liek my opinion that Al Qaeda aren't a bad bunch of guys, they're freedom fighters.

Religion is the single thing dividing our planet. I guarantee you if we all had our memories wiped (MIB stylee) we'd be living in peace by the end of the week.

But then again, that's just my opinion.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Religion hasn't caused wars, Christianity [not protestants alone, but catholicism as well] has. The magnitude of wars insinuated by religious beliefs other than Christianity is minute in comparison to some of the wars that the Roman Church has waged. Everything from colonization to the Crusades to the Protestant/Catholic branch off. Though, I find more issues with the Catholic church than any other.

With the protestant faith there is no head honcho that runs the show. It's a very loose faith, "believe in jesus and you go to heaven". But I find the Catholic church more like a cult that has ridiculous rituals. The communion is understandable. But things like having to repeat 10 hail mary's because of a sin? Or having to recite 15 Our Fathers for another? That's like me starting up a cult and creating a list of sins. And for each time someone broke a sin, they had to pull down their pants, poke their belly buttons twice, then spin around 25 times. Get me?

And on top of it all, there's the Vatican. Where the Pope stands in all his holiness. Having people kiss his ring and basically worship the road he walks on. It's as though he putting himself in the position of their would-be god. And while some of the most loyal followers of the Catholic faith are living in poverty in the hispanic slums of Los Angeles, the rich bastards bath money they rake in from the church.

f*ck the church.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

Don't get carried away too soon. Christianity is of course, a major factor in todays current state of global opression and conflict.

But even the most peaceful religions have had their moments.

The American slaughter of Native American Indians could be considered a religious war.

Meh, cig break, brb

[edit]

So anyway, I can't be arsed, religion sucks.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

acestro said:


> > IF going to heaven for YOU requires blowing yourself, and others up for allah, or reaching zen, or knocking on doors and bugging people about jehova, or rubbing budah's belly, or realizing you are a hopeless fallen man who needs to repent of your immoral ways and accept the atoning blood of Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior by His grace to reconcile you back to Creator God, only one thing is the truth.
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm... not biased or anything are you?.... Doesn't exactly sound like you researched these other religions before deciding on what the truth was.
> [snapback]938592[/snapback]​


I did some research, and I believe  I have found the 1 truth that there is. We are horrendus, sinful, destructive creatures by nature, who have no idea how or why we are here.

When I checked out Christianity for what it really is, repented, and believed that Christ was who He said He was, (the resurrected son of God)and accepted Him as my Lord and Savior, I believe a miracle took place in my heart. (and tons of prayers were answered








I believe that we were created immortally to fellowship with and serve our Creator, until *we* severed that relationship by disobediance through deception.
I believe that sin = death. I believe that God is satisfied when we acknowledge that we are sinners, and turn from our wicked ways, or at least try to whole heartedly. I also believe that sinless blood is one of the _requirements_ for reconcilliation back to God. Hence the need to accept Jesus Christ. ~Hence the ancient Hebrew practice of slaying spotless lambs for remission of sin. (this represented Christ before He came, you know, Jesus was called the Lamb of God)

!!!~That being said, I also believe that there are many, many, many people who claim to be Christians, but they never truly accepted Christ, therefore unregenerate, and also therefore, mud-spackling the powerful name of Christ, by pointing their crooked fingers at people God loves, and wants to come to Him, ruining Christ's witness. Or they have accepted Christ, and never let His holy spirit guide their lives in there own incredible selfishness. So, I am WAY MORE PAINED by so-called Christians who hate people for what they do, than people who are just living in our natural fallen state.
So, _I am a sinner _ who is seen by God, out of His grace through faith in His Son, Jesus Christ, blameless. (a saint) See you in heaven!


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

I respect your choices.

In your eyes m I free to sin to my hearts' content? Or is it against your beliefs to let another human being ruin their life?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I have no religion.. no ritual interests me at all. I have a relationship with the Lord. 
I am not perfect either, (far from it) and no one who walks could say that and it be true. My money, fishtank, house, and car will pass away into dust as my body will, but my relationship with God no one can take from me.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

I think that is one of the most appealing factors of religion, no matter how alone you physically are, you can still have someone to turn to in your darkest hour. If you need that security, then I'm happy for you to have your security blanket.

I noticed your sig' quote is very war-like, mainly concerned with fighting those not under the shield of his god. That's what offends me, the need for religious folks to push their beliefs on others.

Have you ever read the Satanic Bible? You really should, and see if you're living life as you think God wants you to, or if you're inadvertantly following the path of 'Satan'.

I can't believe in that bullshit even if I wanted to, I don't believe there is a God (whether I am right or wrong I feel is my choice, and I'll cross that bridge when I get to it) so Satan (the bogey man, designed to scare people into following the orders written by priests) can't exist either.

Meh.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

LOgan said:


> I respect your choices.
> 
> In your eyes m I free to sin to my hearts' content? Or is it against your beliefs to let another human being ruin their life?
> [snapback]938947[/snapback]​


Yes, I do not wish to get in the way of how you, or anyone else lives their lives.. at all, that is not my job!!!!

But if I tell you what I think about God, and how to get right with Him, because there is a topic started in p-fury's forum, let me state my beliefs in peace. My words will not harm you. All I want to do is peacefully try to get people searching for the truth about who God is. Especially when they ask for it, like the topic of this thread!!

~When people hear the truth, they hear my voice~ Jesus Christ's words


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/deacon.htm


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

Yeah, I guess the problem is the lack of understanding on both sides, or the lack of willing to compromise.

I myself was rasied as a Christian (couldn't tell you which branch; but why there need to be so many different ways of worshipping the same god is beyond me..). But I "broke my programming" so to speak







and now I don't believe in anything except what is real. And my vision of what is real is different to yours. If this is all a test, why bother? If God knows all, why f*ck around testing us to find out who is truly faithful?

Religion is full of holes when you look for them, but just believing that we came from nothing, and we go into nothign is a little daunting; it requires us to live for the _now_ (a satanic pre-requisite, but i believe the satanic teachings are a load of sh*t, observing human nature and writing about it in a way to make everyone seem like a satanist







). I'm happy for people to worship gods, as long as those people aren't allowed anywhere near government.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

LOgan said:


> I think that is one of the most appealing factors of religion, no matter how alone you physically are, you can still have someone to turn to in your darkest hour. If you need that security, then I'm happy for you to have your security blanket.
> 
> I noticed your sig' quote is very war-like, mainly concerned with fighting those not under the shield of his god. That's what offends me, the need for religious folks to push their beliefs on others.
> 
> ...


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

You'd read the Satanic Bible for the same reason you'd read books like the Qu'ran (sp): to gain an insight into what other peopel believe, and how they are being taught and how it differs from your beliefs, you'd read it because you wouldn't want to be so cocky to believe that the first thing you stumbled across was the true religiously accurate depiction of how/what/where/why God is.



> The righteous motive God blesses, because justice is being carried out.


So, if God is Allah (which all scholars worth their salt agree on), then who is telling the truth when we are both claiming God blesses our wars, because they are both fighting for justice? And where is the proof that God has blessed our war at all>? is this another case of having pure faith? But only man can decide to go to war! So that means that God hasn't blessed us, our wars, or our ways?!

I don't believe religion has the answers to todays pressing questions and problems. Back in the day when we ate, rode, and fucked our livestock perhaps religion was relevant.. today, it is meaningless except at a base human level of making sense of your own life.

Once you have done that do you then continue to try and save others, even those that don't wish to be 'saved' ?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

> Knowing that Satan is the father of all lies, why would I read the satanic bible to find out if I am living my life the way God wants me to?? Honestly, that is just plain rediculous


more close mindedness. read the satanic bible just to read it. edgar allen poe could've been the biggest liar that the world has ever seen, but that doesn't make his writings any less worth reading than the truthful man's.


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

Agreed, hyphen


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

LOgan said:


> Yeah, I guess the problem is the lack of understanding on both sides, or the lack of willing to compromise.
> 
> I myself was rasied as a Christian (couldn't tell you which branch; but why there need to be so many different ways of worshipping the same god is beyond me..). But I "broke my programming" so to speak
> 
> ...


I will never get in your way in your quest for truth, bro









Man, when you really really get into studying the Bible, instead of just brushing over it, you start to realize some very interesting, comforting, and awesome things about what it is trying to say about the heart of God. 
Such as: Abraham is the father or our faith in the Bible. When you read about his life in it, you realize that he did many things wrong and was completely imperfect, just like us. God knew he was a fallen man. _God counted Abrahams FAITH in who God was as righteousness, not his works_. 
~Also, the apostle Paul was a Christian oppressor and murderer before he became an apostle. And in his letters that he wrote in the New Testament, you can see that he clearly was not a sinless man, even after he was born again... In Romans, he starts out calling himself an apostle of Christ Jesus, and in 1 Timothy, he calls himself among those whom he was speaking to, _chief sinner_. 
you can say that over time, he was more and more convicted through the Holy Spirit who lived inside of him, that he was a huge sinner who needed faith in God's Messiah to be right with God, through God's grace alone.
~~My point being, that people who create the "holes" in Christianity are the ones who view themselves as self righteous, and not righteous through faith in Christ by God's grace alone. I can not yell at anyone "YOU WORTHLESS SINNER!!" and be correct at all, unless I was looking in the mirror.

~If you pour a gallon of Chalimar perfume on a steaming heap of dung, all you have is a pretty smelling heap of turd..


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

LOgan said:


> You'd read the Satanic Bible for the same reason you'd read books like the Qu'ran (sp): to gain an insight into what other peopel believe, and how they are being taught and how it differs from your beliefs, you'd read it because you wouldn't want to be so cocky to believe that the first thing you stumbled across was the true religiously accurate depiction of how/what/where/why God is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you may be thinking that I am attempting to justify the current war the USA is fighting. I don't think I am qualified to do so. So I won't. Our personal judgement can be quite fallable.

I will say, though, I completely believe that truth is absolute. Which would mean that in this war's case, 1 side only is blessed by God, not both. The end result may give us a clue on what side God is on, but then again, I have no real clue to His ultimate plan. So I won't be climbing the walls trying to understand what He is doing with this. 
I also believe that God moves in people's hearts, weather they have real faith in Him or not. I believe there is no limit to His power, and he sometimes causes people (faithful or not) to do exactly what He wants done. So that means that I do believe God can cause wars, or anything that is good in His sight. By moving peoples hearts to action.
Now is a good time to say that God's plan for the earth has not been revealed to me, other than what He has stated in His word. ~But I do know that the Bible is most certainly "relevant," even today. It states that there will never be peace on earth until Christ comes back for His 2nd comming. So far, this prophecy is without a doubt... the truth. It also gives us a plan for a blessed society, not a perfect one without problems. I can go on but don't want to write a novel... lol


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hyphen said:


> > Knowing that Satan is the father of all lies, why would I read the satanic bible to find out if I am living my life the way God wants me to?? Honestly, that is just plain rediculous
> 
> 
> more close mindedness. read the satanic bible just to read it. edgar allen poe could've been the biggest liar that the world has ever seen, but that doesn't make his writings any less worth reading than the truthful man's.
> [snapback]939011[/snapback]​


I choose not to read it, but you are telling me to do so? I never told you what to read. I have read parts of it, discearned the deception, and put it down. I don't need to confuse myself, I have a hard enough time in life thank you. Has it enlightened you>?


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> LOgan said:
> 
> 
> > Once you have done that do you then continue to try and save others, even those that don't wish to be 'saved' ?
> ...


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

I figured that I would say that there are instances where God is not on either side of a war, but He caused the war, as judgement for both sides.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > > Knowing that Satan is the father of all lies, why would I read the satanic bible to find out if I am living my life the way God wants me to?? Honestly, that is just plain rediculous
> ...


i wasn't commanding you to do anything. i should have stated "you should read the satanic bible just to read it."

i've never read the satanic bible, i don't even know where to find a copy. but if you're so adamant in your relationship with god and your system of beliefs then you shouldn't have to worry about confusing yourself. what is there to confuse you? the satanic bible doesn't contain mystical powder that will bring you to the dark side. in fact, your strong ties with your god should help you point out the fallacies and lies of the satanic bible. but at least then, after you've read it, you can state what the devil does or says that goes against god directly.

edit:
http://www.satanicrituals.com/bible.htm

there's an interesting read. go there if you dare, unless you fear confusion and think it's a ridiculous idea.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hyphen said:


> DiPpY eGgS said:
> 
> 
> > hyphen said:
> ...


Brother, all respect, all I need is my Bible! LOL I don't have to read lies all day and point out all of 'em to satisfy my own curiosity, or anyone else's. 
All I want to do is share the gospel when I have an opportunity. Take it or leave it, and at least in this country, at this period of time, I am free to do so... 
Being that I fight a spiritual battle every day, from the time I wake up till i lay my head on the pillow at night, I choose not to fight alone, behind enemy lines all the time. It is more logical for me to fight from the trenches of my camp. 
every now and then I go on the offensive tho


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

edit:
http://www.satanicrituals.com/bible.htm

there's an interesting read. go there if you dare, unless you fear confusion and think it's a ridiculous idea.
[snapback]939075[/snapback]​[/quote]

ok, i read the site... what is to fear? this guys mad persuance of his own demise? There is hope for him, Christ forgives all. Except those who blaspheme all the way to death. I'll pray for the guy...


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## Umbilical Syllables (Dec 16, 2004)

1. If you should read the satanic bible just to read it, should you then also kill someone before you judge a killer?

2. Beleiving in God does not mean you will live in a Utopia. Regardless of whether or not you beleive in God, there will still be crime. We all have free will, and so there will always be those who choose to sin. Even priests have free will, and just because the represent their God does not mean they are infaliable.

3. You can not "proove" God's existence physically because God is metaphysical. It is like trying to proove what colour I'm thinking of. The only way to proove or disprove the existence of God is through major philisophical study and analization, because philosophy deals with the metaphysical and not the physical. Even then philosophy can only suggest the existence of a God, and Faith is still needed to beleive.


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## Scolopendra (Feb 24, 2005)

LOgan said:


> Fido said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ so whats with the angel pic in your sig lol...
> ...


Bad fish dont have time to grow old....


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

imo putting limits on any religion is blasphemy, i believe in god, allah, christ, zeus all wrapped up in one, but not limited to any certain religion..
i believe in a higher power with the name "God" only because calling anyone "it" would be i guess kind of rude. i respect the essence of allah arm-leg-leg-arm-head representing you are apart of god and god is apart of you there for you are god. one in the same and very simular to the christian belief, i call him god well because i was born catholic but christ muhamed..whatever represents gods devine imperfection and the beauty of his gift of freewill.. putting restraints on any particular religion and the dividing of humanity based on these restraints or killing over something as simple as a diffrence in name was the mistake and this is where i feel the devil has had much play, if your going to kill over something do it because the other looked at you funny not over god...i love heaven but also love hell the same because with out one the other couldnt exist..hand in hand with karma, yin and yang....just my 2 cents


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> edit:
> http://www.satanicrituals.com/bible.htm
> 
> there's an interesting read. go there if you dare, unless you fear confusion and think it's a ridiculous idea.
> [snapback]939075[/snapback]​


ok, i read the site... what is to fear? this guys mad persuance of his own demise? There is hope for him, Christ forgives all. Except those who blaspheme all the way to death. I'll pray for the guy...
[snapback]939106[/snapback]​[/quote]

i swear that today is the day for people putting words into my mouth. i said go there if you dare. i didn't say that you should fear it or that it's scary. the part that was actually interesting was the italicized text at the header. anyway, you may return to your 1-track mind


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

haha i have that satanic bible

i read it in school from want i remeber it seemded something way different then your

murderin blood lust type of satanist but more of a take care of you self type of thinking


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## Kohan Bros. (Aug 24, 2004)

jesus loves me


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

Kohan Bros. said:


> jesus loves me
> [snapback]939423[/snapback]​


jesus only likes me as a friend


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

allah i hope loves me


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## sharpteeth (Feb 14, 2004)

I believe there is something else other than ourselves in this universe as to what and what powers they hold is unknown, I am however not a religious person and the only reason my parents sent me to sunday shcool was so that they could get giggy wid it!


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

MR.FREEZ said:


> haha i have that satanic bible
> 
> i read it in school from want i remeber it seemded something way different then your
> 
> ...


 that is a huge part of Biblical satanic deception... you need no one but yourself. That is idolatry to the 10th degree. Blood n guts lust doesn't appeal to all haters of God. The subtle approach claims the most casualties.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hyphen said:


> DiPpY eGgS said:
> 
> 
> > edit:
> ...


i swear that today is the day for people putting words into my mouth. i said go there if you dare. i didn't say that you should fear it or that it's scary. the part that was actually interesting was the italicized text at the header. anyway, you may return to your 1-track mind








[snapback]939412[/snapback]​[/quote]

It seems you have the spirit of the anti-Christ. If someone mentions they love Christ, they are your punching bag. That is fine by me. I'm not your keeper. Let it rip
You may want to examine your own heart though (go there if you dare, unless you fear confusion and think it's a ridiculous idea.--to quote you)
Then you may conclude that man is cursed to death because of the incredibly destructive force of disobediance towards God (sin) all sin leads to pain and suffering, that is a truth you cant hide from


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

ah yes, i'm the anti-christ, hahaha. EVERYONE BOW BEFORE ME AND TREMBLE IN ALL MY ANTI-CHRISTIC POWERS. because you know, i'm such an unsavory character. you know nothing about me. i respect christians that have an open mind but still have strong faith. they have open minds because they believe waht they believe and nothing can hinder their faith. you, on the other hand, seem to question your own faith. why, you ask? because you fear being "confused" by simply reading a satanic bible. you have a on track mind and aren't able to respect other points of view, no matter how much you say you do.

my ex-bible study teacher is probably the most respectable christian i know. he puts god before everything but is not afraid to study the sciences and explore darwinism. he's not afraid to discuss the devil and the satanic bible, and he sure as hell doesn't call me an anti-christ for ragging on the narrow minded christians i so often come across.

but what does it matter, i'm that anti-christ and i've come here to rule the world.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

p.s. christians aren't my punching bag, severely ignorant people are. not to say that i'm not ignorant to an extent, but i try to remedy that fact while others don't.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> acestro said:
> 
> 
> > > IF going to heaven for YOU requires blowing yourself, and others up for allah, or reaching zen, or knocking on doors and bugging people about jehova, or rubbing budah's belly, or realizing you are a hopeless fallen man who needs to repent of your immoral ways and accept the atoning blood of Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior by His grace to reconcile you back to Creator God, only one thing is the truth.
> ...


Good enough response for me, if you feel a miracle in your heart







I'm definitely happy for you.

But the difficult question is what is the OBJECTIVE truth (is there such a thing? )


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## C.D. (Jan 31, 2005)

wow it took me like an hour to read through all of these pages, and it is really interesting. I have been raised christian and have been through my stages of rebellion of the church and all of that. It really all comes down to, what harm could believing in something and putting faith into something or someone do?

I mean hey, christianity and all other religions are full of holes and stuff but so is science and what other belief you have. you might as well embrace the holy spirit and hopefully receive gods grace. it will definately not make you into a horrible person i know that. and if you die and there is no god or what have you then oh well. its not like being religous keeps you from living a full life. and anyone who says it does probably doesn't have a good perception of what a good life is.

and about the big bang theory. how do you scientifically prove the universe exploded into being?


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

C.D. said:


> and about the big bang theory. how do you scientifically prove the universe exploded into being?
> [snapback]939750[/snapback]​


why, this god snapped his fingers and created everything within the blink of an eye, of course!









just bustin your chops. if anything, the big bang theory leans more into the favor of there being a supreme being than everything just magically appearing out of nowhere. i do have a thought way in the back of my head that there is a supreme being, or one far superior to us, that had something to do with our creation in some way, shape, or form. but we haven't been able to prove anything on either sides so it's all just speculation to me.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i dont ever think about the begining its the end thats gonna suck


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

I have proof that god ain't there : )
just studied it ..

cool


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hyphen said:


> ah yes, i'm the anti-christ, hahaha. EVERYONE BOW BEFORE ME AND TREMBLE IN ALL MY ANTI-CHRISTIC POWERS. because you know, i'm such an unsavory character. you know nothing about me. i respect christians that have an open mind but still have strong faith. they have open minds because they believe waht they believe and nothing can hinder their faith. you, on the other hand, seem to question your own faith. why, you ask? because you fear being "confused" by simply reading a satanic bible. you have a on track mind and aren't able to respect other points of view, no matter how much you say you do.
> 
> my ex-bible study teacher is probably the most respectable christian i know. he puts god before everything but is not afraid to study the sciences and explore darwinism. he's not afraid to discuss the devil and the satanic bible, and he sure as hell doesn't call me an anti-christ for ragging on the narrow minded christians i so often come across.
> 
> ...


Keep swinging at me bro, that is ok with me.. I have never once offended you, told you what to do, showed any sign of weak faith, all I did was state what I believe and some of why. But you seem content pointing your finger at me. You want to judge my heart because I didnt do what you wanted me to, read the satanic bible?.. whatever. 
I am an individual, and love Jesus Christ with all my heart, and I tried to get you to understand why. I didnt force anything on you. So I'm a terrible Christian because I am not like your buddy. well, im not him, and i tried to talk to you, but you dont respect me, fine with me.
In my opinion, to me it sounds like you are not trying to find out the truth about God at all, just sounds like you want to smack a pie in the face who have found Him.
I may be wrong, but you are wrong about me.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

hyphen said:


> p.s. christians aren't my punching bag, severely ignorant people are. not to say that i'm not ignorant to an extent, but i try to remedy that fact while others don't.
> [snapback]939670[/snapback]​


im having a conversation on the internet about God... LOL now i'm ignorant.. whatever. I never judged your ignorance, and I wont, because I know you have a brain and can use it, as I can. I didnt do what you wanted me to, so now im ignorant... LOL


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## c/o (Mar 19, 2005)

DiPpY eGgS said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > DiPpY eGgS said:
> ...


It seems you have the spirit of the anti-Christ. If someone mentions they love Christ, they are your punching bag. That is fine by me. I'm not your keeper. Let it rip
You may want to examine your own heart though (go there if you dare, unless you fear confusion and think it's a ridiculous idea.--to quote you)
Then you may conclude that man is cursed to death because of the incredibly destructive force of disobediance towards God (sin) all sin leads to pain and suffering, that is a truth you cant hide from
[snapback]939605[/snapback]​[/quote]
amen brother!! all we can do is share gods word and pray for him. our faith to believe on christ for salvation comes from god.so all you can do is pray that god will touch his heart. "for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of god. not of works, lest any man should boast." -ephesians 2:8-9 every time he rejects christ it will get easier and his heart will get harder, thus making it harder for him to be saved. alot of people do not want to accept the FACT that when there is creation there is a creator and that creator has complete rights to his creation. man naturaly does not want to be held accountable. man will be held accountable to god. i wish there was a praying smiley face i could put here.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

When I checked out Christianity for what it really is, repented, and believed that Christ was who He said He was, (the resurrected son of God)and accepted Him as my Lord and Savior, I believe a miracle took place in my heart. (and tons of prayers were answered








I believe that we were created immortally to fellowship with and serve our Creator, until *we* severed that relationship by disobediance through deception.
I believe that sin = death. I believe that God is satisfied when we acknowledge that we are sinners, and turn from our wicked ways, or at least try to whole heartedly. I also believe that sinless blood is one of the _requirements_ for reconcilliation back to God. Hence the need to accept Jesus Christ. ~Hence the ancient Hebrew practice of slaying spotless lambs for remission of sin. (this represented Christ before He came, you know, Jesus was called the Lamb of God)

!!!~That being said, I also believe that there are many, many, many people who claim to be Christians, but they never truly accepted Christ, therefore unregenerate, and also therefore, mud-spackling the powerful name of Christ, by pointing their crooked fingers at people God loves, and wants to come to Him, ruining Christ's witness. Or they have accepted Christ, and never let His holy spirit guide their lives in there own incredible selfishness. So, I am WAY MORE PAINED by so-called Christians who hate people for what they do, than people who are just living in our natural fallen state.
So, _I am a sinner _ who is seen by God, out of His grace through faith in His Son, Jesus Christ, blameless. (a saint) See you in heaven!
[snapback]938941[/snapback]​[/quote]

this post was a breath of fresh air to me..you sir are a true believer, and the one constant boggle in my life is that based on my life and my ways, i look up to and admire people like you, even tho i cant take all the guitar playing and singing and happy go lucky sh*t in church....although ive come to terms with god, and have tryed to repent i cannot completely change my ways, ive learned to controll my lust and honor my wife the way she much deserves as ive grown, but seems almost impossable for me to let go of rage, anger, and hate... i passionatly almost not by choice keep them as close to me as i do love, honor, and my attempt to be just, its as if its just apart of my nature even tho i'd rather it not...in one way id give the shirt off my back to someone in need but in the same breath i'd stomp the liveing crap out of that person if given an excuse...







i dont know, i've got alot of demons in me that i fight day in day out, and one goal that ive yet to reach is to get rid of them.


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## BigChuckP (Feb 9, 2004)

We are an alien's ant farm...


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

[/quote]
amen brother!! all we can do is share gods word and pray for him. our faith to believe on christ for salvation comes from god.so all you can do is pray that god will touch his heart. "for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of god. not of works, lest any man should boast." -ephesians 2:8-9 every time he rejects christ it will get easier and his heart will get harder, thus making it harder for him to be saved. alot of people do not want to accept the FACT that when there is creation there is a creator and that creator has complete rights to his creation. man naturaly does not want to be held accountable. man will be held accountable to god. i wish there was a praying smiley face i could put here.
[snapback]942077[/snapback]​[/quote]

Yes, i agree. I prayerfully post in here hoping that a searcher comes to Christ, no matter how much mud has been slinged on His awesome name by fallen man. We are but dust. He is God.


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## redbelly93 (Dec 12, 2004)

amen brother!! all we can do is share gods word and pray for him. our faith to believe on christ for salvation comes from god.so all you can do is pray that god will touch his heart. "for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of god. not of works, lest any man should boast." -ephesians 2:8-9 every time he rejects christ it will get easier and his heart will get harder, thus making it harder for him to be saved. alot of people do not want to accept the FACT that when there is creation there is a creator and that creator has complete rights to his creation. man naturaly does not want to be held accountable. man will be held accountable to god. i wish there was a praying smiley face i could put here.
[snapback]942077[/snapback]​[/quote]

Yes, i agree. I prayerfully post in here hoping that a searcher comes to Christ, no matter how much mud has been slinged on His awesome name by fallen man. We are but dust. He is God.








[snapback]942408[/snapback]​[/quote]
I am a christian and bleieve that even those who say they they dont believe are still believers. They can deny it all they want. GOD is with all of us at least in our conscience. What othewise keeps the nonbeliever from doing anything they literally want to do. Your conscience is your voice from God AMEN


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## LOgan (Mar 13, 2005)

haha, yeah I have a similar belief system:

I believe everyone is a paedophile, they just don't believe it, and tehy don't act on it, and they don't accept it.

Wow, I guess that means they're not paedophiles..


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

[/quote]

this post was a breath of fresh air to me..you sir are a true believer, and the one constant boggle in my life is that based on my life and my ways, i look up to and admire people like you, even tho i cant take all the guitar playing and singing and happy go lucky sh*t in church....although ive come to terms with god, and have tryed to repent i cannot completely change my ways, ive learned to controll my lust and honor my wife the way she much deserves as ive grown, but seems almost impossable for me to let go of rage, anger, and hate... i passionatly almost not by choice keep them as close to me as i do love, honor, and my attempt to be just, its as if its just apart of my nature even tho i'd rather it not...in one way id give the shirt off my back to someone in need but in the same breath i'd stomp the liveing crap out of that person if given an excuse...:laugh: i dont know, i've got alot of demons in me that i fight day in day out, and one goal that ive yet to reach is to get rid of them.
[snapback]942253[/snapback]​[/quote]

Hi~ Thank you for posting. I hope that you wouldn't mind if I commented on this, being that I can tell you have a heart after God.

Brother, I have been there with all of your struggles, and I hear ya. I think it is great that you understand that there is an actual spiritual battle taking place inside you every day. This actually launches me into what I would like to share.

When we wholeheartedly admit we are sinners (Rom 3:23) who need forgiveness, and grace, (Rom 6:23) and we repent and accept Christ (John 14:6) on His terms,(Rom 10:9-11) we are spiritually born into the kingdom of God. We are then justified by faith. "saved" (john 3:3)

There is a promise in the Bible of the "helper," or the "comforter" (John 14:26) that is sent to us when we do this with our whole heart. This is the actual 3rd person of the trinity of God. The Holy Spirit. He leads us into all truth about God. 
He is there to convict us that Christ is Lord, convict us of our unrepented sin that hinders our fellowship with God, convicts us to keep in God's word every day, and tries to convict our steps in life. Prayer, study, and worship, is the key to be victorious in our walk with God. (I suggest studying Eph 6:10-24... stay in the word for that matter







)

I know that there is a great chance that you already know this stuff, but it is easily removed from our hearts in this life of lust and greed......... I can go on and on, so I'll stop here on this for now.

But as for the guitar playing and stuff, I would like to share with you that the book of Psalms are all songs written for worship by David and some of the chief spiritual musicians of the day. ~David was called "a man after God's own heart" by God Himself, due to his great love for God that moved him to great joy that couldn't be contained, and was released by his jumping about, dancing, playing music, and singing.
As we grow closer to God, there is a quite uncontainable joy that is rooted in peace that you are one with the Father. Releasing this in the form of song worship, I believe is one of the greatest experiences we as children of God can experience His presence. 
He certainly blesses us in mighty ways when we let go and rejoice with complete security we are His alone, as David did. 
Just thought I would try to explain to you why we do that...







I hope i've helped you in some way... I hope this is well recieved!!
Faith, hope, love to you


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

[/quote]
I am a christian and bleieve that even those who say they they dont believe are still believers. They can deny it all they want. GOD is with all of us at least in our conscience. What othewise keeps the nonbeliever from doing anything they literally want to do. Your conscience is your voice from God AMEN
[snapback]942418[/snapback]​[/quote]

Yup.. "God wrote His law on all men's hearts"


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