# Pulitzer Pic



## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

View attachment 70791


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

I can't open BMP's, but I'm guessing it's this photo? it was taken by Kevin Carter.. he was heavily criticised for not helping and just taking the photo and moving on.. he killed himself the same year iirc.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

oh, good going fixing it while I'm posting.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2005)

I see some great Photoshop opportunities here.

*Cheer up little boy
I'm the black vulture of happiness*


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Drew said:


> oh, good going fixing it while I'm posting.
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LOL, sorry man, you posted quick! lol


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Damn.....what a jackass that photographer was. How can you not help the little dude? Makes no sense to me.


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## Fresh2salt (Jul 16, 2004)

5 cents a day can save that kids life.


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## kove32 (Oct 26, 2004)

I really don't know how he couldn't save his life... I mean that is kind of hard to beleive, but doesn't it give you a sense? There are probally a million kids over there like that, and there isn't a photographer for each one. It gives you a sense to know that these things are real.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

I wonder where its mother or siblings are...or anyone of its family. That picture is too sad for words..







Hope the kid made it to the bank...but that would probably be just wishful thinking.


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## DiPpY eGgS (Mar 6, 2005)

All the aid that goes to these poor African countries from the nations goes to their corrupt rogue governments, who are supposed to feed them...
They end up spending the cash on themselves, and they turn the other cheek to their people. Sad. The only time the aid ever gets to them is when people actually go there, and bring it right to them, like many Christian missions operations. 
My question is, why doesn't the world governments give the supplies to the people who actually will go down to where the starving people are, who get the job done, instead of their corrupt governments who steal the $$??
Oh yeah, then they would be supporting a 'religious veiwpoint'-- they can't do that, people might think they are shoving Christ down their throats.. you know how ppl HATE that..


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> I wonder where its mother or siblings are...or anyone of its family. That picture is too sad for words..
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This isnt even that bad compared to some of the photos in the book INFERNO by James Nachtwey.. a big part of the book is photos like this from Sudan, rwanada/genocide, etc.. I think it's been silently donned the most moving / powerful photography book ever. It's not something you can get very far through without feeling queezy in your stomach or just wanting to break down in tears.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Damn.....what a jackass that photographer was. How can you not help the little dude? Makes no sense to me.
> [snapback]1132789[/snapback]​





> It should come as no surprise that he found it difficult to reconcile the peaks and valleys of his career with the suffering and violence upon which it was built. It disturbed him, as it should have. By embarking on a career in photojournalism, Carter set himself apart from the lives of the people he photographed. He chose to be an observer rather than a participant. Carter opted for a moral detachment that most of us cannot achieve and that I would not want to have. Though I can admire his work and courage in the face of danger, I cannot imagine witnessing such violence and human suffering without trying to intervene. Perhaps, in the end, Kevin Carter could not either


Because that's not what he was there for. When you watch thousands of people die in front of you, you probably lose any sense of purpose in helping anyone. Why bother helping one when another million are going to die anyhow basically...


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## johndeere (Jul 21, 2004)

elTwitcho said:


> Grosse Gurke said:
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> > Damn.....what a jackass that photographer was. How can you not help the little dude? Makes no sense to me.
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That has to be tuff watching people starve. Sad.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah it's really not surprising he killed himself, I mean we see a picture and it's terrible, but imagine living amongst that sh*t.

Here's another quote from the same source



> Seeking relief from the sight of masses of people starving to death, he wandered into the open bush. He heard a soft, high-pitched whimpering and saw a tiny girl trying to make her way to the feeding center. As he crouched to photograph her, a vulture landed in view. Careful not to disturb the bird, he positioned himself for the best possible image. He would later say he waited about 20 minutes, hoping the vulture would spread its wings. It did not, and after he took his photographs, he chased the bird away and watched as the little girl resumed her struggle. Afterward he sat under a tree, lit a cigarette, talked to God and cried. "He was depressed afterward," Silva recalls. "He kept saying he wanted to hug his daughter


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## myles (Feb 27, 2005)

that blows that the money goes to the goverment i didnt kno that







, sh*t i kno i m ay get in alot of trouble for saying this but maby instead of money we shoudl just send them a bunch of rubbers, i mena sh*t their having babaies who are jsut gonana die, if they wanna have fun with eachoither we shoudl give them something were there not gonana need another mouth to feed afterwords right? anf food, since money doesnt get spent on it.


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> I wonder where its mother or siblings are...or anyone of its family. That picture is too sad for words..
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these kids dont have homes.. they wander the streets.. if they come home, then they come home.. if they dont, the mother doesnt care cuz she has 10 other kids to take care of..

i go to brazil all the time to train, and there are alot of street kids that just sleep on the sidewalks n stuff.. all they do is beg, steal, and kill people..

watch the movie 'city of god'


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

i also read some statistic that in a hundred years everyone in africa will be dead do to disease, starvation, civil wars..


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

myles said:


> that blows that the money goes to the goverment i didnt kno that
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when ur poor.. the only pleasure u can afford is sex..


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

jiggy said:


> i also read some statistic that in a hundred years everyone in africa will be dead do to disease, starvation, civil wars..
> [snapback]1133373[/snapback]​


I'm not sure I'd call that a statistic, but to be honest I think ALL OF US will be dead in a hundred years due to resource depletion, pollution, environmental damage and a population level that is well beyond what's sustainable even today let alone that it will have more than doubled before then (well, if we weren't all dead that is). I think its pretty optimistic to think we'll be aroundd to see anything in a hundred years.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Drew said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
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> > I wonder where its mother or siblings are...or anyone of its family. That picture is too sad for words..
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ima check that book out brothera.

Also, I dont knoow...Why do they keep re-producing? thats thething that i lalways wondered
there poor as all can be,b ut they still have -6-7-8-9-10 kids, but cant affrd NOE, but they still have e, WHY?

Aloso, I heard there not supposd to ''interfere'', Photorgaphers wise


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## User (May 31, 2004)

jiggy said:


> i also read some statistic that in a hundred years everyone in africa will be dead do to disease, starvation, civil wars..
> [snapback]1133373[/snapback]​


That is a prediction, I've heard and read similar articles.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

myles said:


> that blows that the money goes to the goverment i didnt kno that
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It doesn't matter. Majority of the new borns and or kids will now die from disease passed by parents threw pregnancy which will drop life expectancy even lower than it is currently. Not to mention death by starvation and civil, ethic and religious wars.

Even if every male in Africa wore a condom it will not halt the birthrate totally. They would need a supply of condoms at any given time, and many will not wear them.


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## 6Fish_Pimp6 (Jan 3, 2005)

Man, just take a moment and think......We're all SOOOO lucky we were born in large countries that can protect and feed us even if we can't afford it. The poorest of people in the USA, canada, europe so on are very lucky. I couldn't imagine living in those condition, constant war, %99 poverty, and lots of disease.

Anyways, I actually have heard th opposite of in 100 years they will be gone.
I heard EVEN with aids and the poverty they have so many children that africa will pass even india population wise...That's what I've learned and read about. I'm sure there are different predictions.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

I'm not sure if we're lucky. We have to watch all this sh*t that happens in Africa and other areas. Each individual in the western world is made feel guilty because we have more. Am I supposed to feel guilty because I was born in America which I had no control over? Our generation has to play catch up with this situation because of let down of passed generations. In some areas with helping the poverty filled countries we do more damage, their economies never get a start and it totally depends on aid. I truly don't see how the earth will cope with the expected population increase now to 2050 and forward 2100.

Our generation has much to handle. Pollution, environmental damage, resource depletion, over population, thermonuclear weapons, religious facists who try and destroy the world, than save it. This could be a story book ending.

It boggles my mind that religious fascists create minimal attacks by conventional bombs, try to ban petty sh*t like gay marriage, and setup some guy in the sky judgment. They don't care about the core destruction.









They keep at their diarrhea from the mouth message.








I do not mean to stray off topic but all this needs discussion.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> I wonder where its mother or siblings are...or anyone of its family. That picture is too sad for words..
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i love how you refer to the child as "it" and not him.


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

Bullsnake said:


> I see some great Photoshop opportunities here.
> 
> *Cheer up little boy
> I'm the black vulture of happiness*
> ...


Am i the only person who caught that? Not even funny at all.


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

hyphen said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
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> > I wonder where its mother or siblings are...or anyone of its family. That picture is too sad for words..
> ...


Ms Natt was not sure of the sex of the child so she used the word 'it', whereas you just took a guess and got it wrong. Read ElTwitcho's quote and you will see its a girl.

That photographer was right to kill himself. I know he saw death everyday but to wait 20 minuites for the best picture then sit down and have a smoke when hes done is inhuman.


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

Gordeez said:


> Drew said:
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It's a bit expensive (100.00), but it's worth it.. especially if you are into James Nachtwey.. I've had it for a couple months, and havent been able to finish it.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Gordeez said:


> Aloso, I heard there not supposd to ''interfere'', Photorgaphers wise[snapback]1133391[/snapback]​


That's right: I think it's part of the journalist's code of conduct not to intervene.
It's so easy criticising this after while sitting behind your desk and burping out the the last remnants of your Quarter Pounder meal, especially when you don't know a frickin' thing about journalistic ethics.
I don't hear people bitching when a war correspondent photographes a severly injured victim of a bombing either... And besides that, what's the point: that journalist was doing his job, ie. reporting from a troubled area, not trying to safe the world. Doing his job (potentially) saves thousands more people than rescueing one kid that was bound to starve anyways (and I know how hrash and cold that sounds).
The fact that he had to live with the trauma of this (and countless other things) is already bad enough, so I'm pretty sure he (and all other conflict and crisis photographers) can do perfectly well without criticism from ignorant people that think donating a buck a month to Unicef is enough to save the world (if they actually do anything at all) - and besides that, he already paid the highest price for his job...


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Hey man, he could put his camera down for 15 minutes and become a human being instead of a full time photographer. Maybe he wouldn't have been so depressed if he actually did something to help the situation, even if he only helped save one life it still would have made a big difference to that one child.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

His job was being a journalist/photographer. He made a personal decision not to help. If he had helped the child, why is that child different from thousands to millions of others in the same position? I personally could not help one while many more gaze at me that want help. The guy already killed himself, and criticism from people who wasn't in his shoes helped his suicide, I don't see the problem. The life in the picture and life that took the picture are both dead and gone.


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## Ex0dus (Jun 29, 2005)

Its sad the state the 3rd world lives in. Whats even sadder is how We (1st world countries) have put them in this situation and continue the trend today. From the early colonization of Africa to the present day. I know we all look at these pictures and feel so bad, but think in a normal day how often do you think about the oppressed peoples in 3rd world countries. These are the forgottens of the world. Now I know the current state of Africa and other 3rd world countries isnt ours to blame completly. I think that if we REALLY gave a sh*t what was going on over there, we'd stop the mentality that your gonna turn sh*t poor countries into 1st world countries overnight. People tend to forget that We 1st started we were just a struggling nation and didnt take the lead till the late 19th century.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Hey man, he could put his camera down for 15 minutes and become a human being instead of a full time photographer.
> [snapback]1134072[/snapback]​


Read what I posted again man, he found this little girl when he went into the bush to get away from the THOUSANDS of other people starving to death in front of him, what's really the point in saving one of them?


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

I think in the situation, I might feel worse helping just one of them and not all of them compared to just walking away.. tough call.


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## malicious1 (Jul 4, 2005)

Judazzz said:


> Gordeez said:
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> > Aloso, I heard there not supposd to ''interfere'', Photorgaphers wise[snapback]1133391[/snapback]​
> ...


i agree, that picture is sad and depressing but his job was to photograph her not save her. even if it would have taken 15 mis to "save" her what would have been the point? knowing that she died somewhere else and you didn't have to see it?
im not trying to be an asshole, im just being logical. he probably will save way more people than you could imagine with that photograph, but that still isnt the point. sometimes people are to far gone to be helped. the girl was sick, she couldnt even stand up. voulchers know when death is coming, thats why they are around. i would hate to have something like that sit on my shoulders, but even if he did help her he stil knew her fate was inevitable.


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

also, a factor that humans use in situations like this is to "dehumanize" or otherwise try not to see them in a humanlike matter. that helps them to cope with whats going on. everyone uses it, whether in situatuions like this, or in war.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Guys, of course he couldn't save millions of them, but maybe thousands yes - see below where I explain this. But his job first and foremost is that of a human being, which means doing what you can to help others. Sure, his pic had a profound effect and helps millions, and I'm not saying he shouldn't have taken a pic. but at the same time just cause his job is to photograph that doesn't mean he was handcuffed to a tree and could do nothing else but take pics.

And the point of saving ONE is that that is ONE more life that was spared - it makes an entire world of difference to that little girl. What if that was your child? Do you think him leaving her there to die vs. helping her live would have been pointless to you? No, it would have made all the difference in the world to you.

He could have carried her there, went back, carried one more, kept carrying till he couldn't carry anymore. Hell, he probably had a car that he could have loaded up with a 1/2 dozen at a time for the day. Cars get, what, 25 miles to the gallon? That's almost 50 kilometers to the gallon. That's 25 carloads of people he could have helped with every gallon of gas he had, maybe 16 gallons of gas on a full tank = 400 trips. With 6 people per trip, that's 2,400 people he could have saved on a full tank!! So don't say he could not have made a difference, b/c that's b.s.

And so what if he offed himself? That excuses his decision to do nothing other than document? Great, so now there are 1 million and one dead people. His death helps no one, and it does not bring back that one little girl. Maybe if everyone who was there filming, taking pics, reporting, etc. picked up a little girl then there would have been hundreds more saved. Each and every life is precious and special.

And maybe he wouldn't have been so depressed and there would be one less widow and one less fatherless child - he left behind a daughter when he killed himself.

Wrong choices, man, definitely wrong choices.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Natt King Shoal said:


> hyphen said:
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Hyphen- I never ever call a child an it, unless the sex is unknown. I hate referring to any child as such.


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

ive travelled through northern, southern, and eastern africa a few times. and every time i go, it's hard to leave. i feel the need to help some of the poor folks there, but it's very hard to do. as someone said, all aid goes rigth into the dictator's pocket, to build him a new palace, or buy him a new jet. while the rest of the population is starving, the leader is leaving 100s of pounds of food to rot because he's full.

it really makes me wish that the US would reinstate their order to assasinate international assholes like Mugabe and those sorts. what about in ZImbabwe, where the leader tore down houses of ppl that didnt vote for him...

it's so hard to see ppl, especially children, suffer. it's broken my heart more than once when i have to leave, and i know im going back to my warm house, bed, and refridgerator, while im leaving ppl to starve to death. the first time i got back from eastern africa, i went into a pretty severe depression, and i was only 14 years old.

ever since then i cant bring myself to waste food, and when i do, i get very angry with myself. even using water im cautious of. i see ppl leave the taps running, and all this crap...when there are 10s of millions of ppl who dont even get drinking water.

we look at a certain food and think "eww...i dont want to touch that..." when a kid over there would see it and have a heartattack at the thought of eating some solid food.

ive been to asia and the middle east as well, and seen them suffer. but they dont suffer anything like the africans. on top of that, the africans are probably the most friendly ppl around. ive been invited into a few Masai's huts in kenya, and they welcome you with open arms (which isnt always a good thing...cause they dont have deodorant in the Rift Valley,lol).

i just ask ppl to give the poor ppl over there a thought when you go to throw out food you cant eat, or when you order something knowing you cant finish it. just think abuot how f*cking lucky you are to be where you are. you might not have a lot of money, but you are lucky enough to live in the west, where we at least have constant access to food and water. just think about the ppl who were never given a chance like we were. they were born where they were, and there's no chance of them getting out of it. Africa is a vicious circle, of hunger, starvation, and crime....but it's the only way they can get by.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Puff said:


> ive travelled through northern, southern, and eastern africa a few times. and every time i go, it's hard to leave. i feel the need to help some of the poor folks there, but it's very hard to do. as someone said, all aid goes rigth into the dictator's pocket, to build him a new palace, or buy him a new jet. while the rest of the population is starving, the leader is leaving 100s of pounds of food to rot because he's full.
> 
> it really makes me wish that the US would reinstate their order to assasinate international assholes like Mugabe and those sorts. what about in ZImbabwe, where the leader tore down houses of ppl that didnt vote for him...
> 
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I hear ya, I hate seeing food go to waste. I was at a camping trip and friends were tossing hotdogs in a lake just to be funny. Damn I got pissed....but they couldn't understand.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

I didn't read everyone's posts in this thread. I don't have the time. I'm supposed to have dinner on the table in 20 mins. Regardless, here I go...

A lot of people were arguing that the photographer should have helped this child. Photographers are not in a place to conduct humanitarian intervention. They are there to photograph, which is at times, a very hard job. I know people who have gone to third world countries who have been on both sides of the equation - as a humanitarian aid worker and also as a photographer. A girl I went to high school with, who loves photography more than life itself, has personally gone to places of conflict and strife to document it in pictures. She's seen a lot. I don't envy her... But at the same time, her duty is not to help those she photographs, it's to catalogue it and bring it back. To try and prop those pictures up in our faces to say, 'Hey look, there are some really bad things going on in these places.'

So many people are whining and complaining. One person even said that it was good that this photographer committed suicide. I think that is a disgusting statement.

Think about it this way...

I had a friend who was serving in Afghanistan in the military. As a soldier he has a code of conduct he has to stick to. That includes not handing out food or water to people on the streets when he's doing his patrols. Most of the time these 'people' were kids. He had to turn away 5 and 6 year old kids who were asking him for water. He had to pretend he didn't hear them and just kept walking or driving... Now, those kids could have died that very day from malnutrition or dehydration. Should my friend go and kill himself? Is what he did any worse/better than what the photographer did? I don't think so.

As for the child in the picture... When a human being is that dehydrated and under nourished getting them back to a healthy state isn't as simple as tossing some water down their mouth, pumping their tummy full of rice and saying, 'Have a good day.' Too much water could actually inflict damage, etc... Nourishing a child in that state back to health would have been a time-consuming ordeal. That kid needed a few doctors working on her, not some rogue photographer carrying her to a camp where she would've most likely died anyway.

And for all the people being pricks about this photographer... What the hell have you done to help? Is looking at the picture and doing nothing any different than being the one who took it and did nothing? Are you donating money, time, effort to ANY causes at all?

I could go on and on, but like I said, I have to get dinner on the table. How ironic is that in all of this? Oh well...


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## User (May 31, 2004)

"Puff said:


> ive been to asia and the middle east as well, and seen them suffer. but they dont suffer anything like the africans. on top of that, the africans are probably the most friendly ppl around. ive been invited into a few Masai's huts in kenya, and they welcome you with open arms (which isnt always a good thing...cause they dont have deodorant in the Rift Valley,lol).


_This isn't personal or directed toward you, just expressed thought._

If people try and cancel out people that suffer in the Mid East and Asia because they don't suffer like the Africans, where is the logic? Since when is human suffering a ladder or moral jump rope? Do we ignore people in Mideast and Asia simply because they don't suffer "as bad" compaired to Africans? Or simply because we don't give a sh*t about those people at the moment?



"Puff said:


> i just ask ppl to give the poor ppl over there a thought when you go to throw out food you cant eat, or when you order something knowing you cant finish it. just think abuot how f*cking lucky you are to be where you are. you might not have a lot of money, but you are lucky enough to live in the west, where we at least have constant access to food and water. just think about the ppl who were never given a chance like we were. they were born where they were, and there's no chance of them getting out of it. Africa is a vicious circle, of hunger, starvation, and crime....but it's the only way they can get by.


I don't see how luck plays any role. You're born into a country by random chance, lucky seems atleast to me, they are favored by a supernatural force while the unlucky suffer or is being punished.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Natt King Shoal said:
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I call ALL Kids ''It's'' Even Friends Kids, I call em It's


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## Puff (Feb 14, 2005)

mettle- you have an awesome point. but a soldier's job in a country is different from a photographers, the soldiers have to abide by the code of conduct, or face a court marshall, or just get in sh!t. a photgrapher is there by choice. im not saying the photographer should have helped the kid. but the soldier and photographer's role in a place is a lot different. but i agree with what you say.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Man, please, a photographer can carry out his job of documenting AND THEN decide to help out. Please, that is b.s. to say "that's not my job." You can choose to do whatever you want once you've accomplished your mission at the very least. And what have we done to help? Oh, gee, send money to the Red Cross, give food to homeless, etc. I can sit back and say "it's not my job" but I don't. He got his friggin pic, now pick the kid up and bring her to the food camp instead of just walking away to blow his brains out in post-depression. What a crock of sh*t. What if his buddy got hit by a bullet? Would he just sit there and take pics of his friend dying for 20 minutes, or bandage him up & get him help? Because, you know, bandaging up his friend is not his job...
This rationale is complete nonsense.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> *Man, please, a photographer can carry out his job of documenting AND THEN decide to help out. Please, that is b.s. to say "that's not my job." You can choose to do whatever you want once you've accomplished your mission at the very least.* And what have we done to help? Oh, gee, send money to the Red Cross, give food to homeless, etc. I can sit back and say "it's not my job" but I don't. He got his friggin pic, now pick the kid up and bring her to the food camp instead of just walking away to blow his brains out in post-depression. What a crock of sh*t. What if his buddy got hit by a bullet? Would he just sit there and take pics of his friend dying for 20 minutes, or bandage him up & get him help? Because, you know, bandaging up his friend is not his job...
> This rationale is complete nonsense.
> [snapback]1134628[/snapback]​


He chose not to.

BTW did people just not see this quote? 


> Seeking relief from the sight of masses of people starving to death, he wandered into the open bush. He heard a soft, high-pitched whimpering and saw a tiny girl trying to make her way to the feeding center. As he crouched to photograph her, a vulture landed in view. Careful not to disturb the bird, he positioned himself for the best possible image. He would later say he waited about 20 minutes, hoping the vulture would spread its wings. It did not, and after he took his photographs, he chased the bird away and watched as the little girl resumed her struggle. Afterward he sat under a tree, lit a cigarette, talked to God and cried. "He was depressed afterward," Silva recalls. "He kept saying he wanted to hug his daughter.


Yes, take the one child to the feed center and just forget about the masses. That would not clear my conscience, infact it might have done damage to it.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Man, please, a photographer can carry out his job of documenting AND THEN decide to help out. Please, that is b.s. to say "that's not my job." You can choose to do whatever you want once you've accomplished your mission at the very least.
> [snapback]1134628[/snapback]​


I don't think you understand what a photographers job is. It isn't to take one picture, it is to document an event. Taking one picture after landing and then spending a week carrying people around to food camps is not what photographers do, they take pictures. So no, he hadn't accomplished his mission, and you're telling him to basically quit his job and dedicate all his time to saving starving people which is stupid. I don't see YOU quitting your job and carrying africans to food stations, so you're in no position to say jack sh*t.

I mean come on man, you could have worked an hour at work today AND THEN decided to help out and given up on the other 7 hours you're expected to do. You could have thrown away your future livelihood to go help africans, but strangely here you are, decidedly not carrying africans to food stations. So don't give me that bullshit reasoning


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Guys, of course he couldn't save millions of them, but maybe thousands yes - see below where I explain this. But his job first and foremost is that of a human being, which means doing what you can to help others. Sure, his pic had a profound effect and helps millions, and I'm not saying he shouldn't have taken a pic. but at the same time just cause his job is to photograph that doesn't mean he was handcuffed to a tree and could do nothing else but take pics.
> 
> And the point of saving ONE is that that is ONE more life that was spared - it makes an entire world of difference to that little girl. What if that was your child? Do you think him leaving her there to die vs. helping her live would have been pointless to you? No, it would have made all the difference in the world to you.
> 
> ...


What you don't seem to realize is that first of all it isn't like there were mounds of food at any of the hospital camps to begin with in '94. There was (and still is) a huge civil war going on there and has been since 1985. World relief organizations had pulled most of their people out of the aid camps and supplies were cut to about 25% of what they had been in 1992. The death toll in the Sudan camps for 1993 was about 250 people PER DAY and that rate more than doubled in late '94. There were virtually no hospital facilities to treat the malnourished people that were suffering from scurvy, beri-beri, cholera and other famine related diseases until they were re-established in late 2000 . The facts are that even today 11 years after that picture was taken the death rates for the Sudanese camps is still over 161 people per day.


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## r1dermon (Mar 9, 2005)

well said twitch. it is not the photographers job to interfere with anything, its photo-journalism. MORALITY is non existent in journalism...ANY journalism. if you pull up to a lake where a boy is drowning, and its YOUR job to get the story, are YOU going to run into the water to get the boy and save his life? or are you going to let the fire dept. police...etc... do THEIR job and get the boy. now you've got two angles, you've got the fire department rushed in and brought the boy to safety, or the fire department screwed up and the kid died. either way, it makes for a good read. and that's what people buy. its not about doing whats right, its about accomplishing a task.


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Scrap5000 said:


> Man, please, a photographer can carry out his job of documenting AND THEN decide to help out. Please, that is b.s. to say "that's not my job." You can choose to do whatever you want once you've accomplished your mission at the very least.
> [snapback]1134628[/snapback]​


So why aren't we criticizing soldiers who are over seas, who know what these people are going through, for not helping out more when they're done their missions over there? Why aren't we saying, 'Hey assh-les, why don't you take some of that leave time and go help out in the villages? Feed some starving? Carrying them to refugee camps?'

It's a rather circular and uninformed argument you're making...

And sorry if I missed it. But what exactly is it you've done to help the starving and dying in Africa?


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## Fido (May 21, 2003)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Man, please, a photographer can carry out his job of documenting AND THEN decide to help out. Please, that is b.s. to say "that's not my job." You can choose to do whatever you want once you've accomplished your mission at the very least.
> ...


So its ok to stand by and take pictures when there is a child starving to death since you are a photographer. f*ck that. I can just imagine the chaos that would happen if someone did that here in the United States.


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

its not a PHOTOGRAPHERS JOB to play Super-Man and try to Save everyone.
They are only supposed to capture the moment, and move on. Not play red cross and feed everyone. I know some of you guy's dont agree, but hey, thast part of life. Move on.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Fido said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Scrap5000 said:
> ...


Imagine the chaos? Are you so simple that you don't think there is a difference between the situation in Africa and that in the United States?

Aside from that, look at yourself before you point fingers. You're sitting on the sidelines doing your minimum wage job today instead of helping the children in Africa, so why should you expect someone else to give up their job to do something you won't? Isn't it extremely hipocritical to say "that photographer should have not done his job and gotten fired" when you yourself are no better than he is?


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## Mettle (Dec 29, 2003)

Fido said:


> elTwitcho said:
> 
> 
> > Scrap5000 said:
> ...


Happens all the time with car accidents, burning houses, etc... And I don't think there's refugee camps, people dying of manutrition by the hundreds (each day) and thousands of people who looked like that girl in the picture just around the corner. Comparing it to something happening in the USA is kinda moot. There are other circumstances...


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Fock all this sh*t. It boils down to the man and his choice, he CHOSE not to help the child. I would have not had even one problem if he'd helped, but he didn't because he CHOSE not it. Get the f*ck over it. He was trying to get anyway from thousands dying and seen that little girl. Estimate how many children have died after that picture was taken. I guess all photographers need to start to shove rice and water down dehydrated dying kids mouth just to say they did something good for world, or to please other people back home. And so people can feel well about themselves and live through the photographer.

I'm not sure how anybody can compare USA to Africa.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

It dosent matter what a person does for a living.

It comes to one thing and one thing only..

If a person sees someone who may die and the person can save them, then do it!

Is'ent that the right thing to do? I myself have saved about 3 people from dying. I wasent like it's not my job or someone else will do it. I saw someone in mortal danage and I figure I could save them so I did.

Funny how some people are getting beat up and almost beaten to death in open view of the public and yet people say, "I'm not a cop". Funny how someone could be lying in the middle of the street bleeding to deat and someone says "I'm not a medic". Funny how someone was given an ovedose of drugs without them knowing and lying on the floor about to die and someone said, "I'm not going to jail, just dump her in the street".

I am not saying what the journalist/photographer did was right and wrong. I'm just talking about the mass public and how so many people will not help other people. I myself will help someone if I can. Why do I do this? The answer is an easy one... I hope the day someone in my family needs help and the day I need it, someone will help my family or me.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

sadboy said:


> It dosent matter what a person does for a living.
> 
> It comes to one thing and one thing only..
> 
> ...


I see where you're coming from but the situation isn't the same in Sedan as it is in the US. He couldn't help everyone, he had a job to do. He was being paid to go and photograph the crisis, what do you think would have happened if he had returned home and said "I didn't get any pictures, I was too busy carrying people to the aid station" when his boss asked for his film?

Is a job more important than another person's life? That's a matter of viewpoint, but documenting history is every bit as important as saving one child in my eyes. Read a bit about this man and you see that he documented tragedy all over africa. He saw apartheid violence in his homeland of south africa, he saw armed mobs killing innocents, police executing people because of their race, and yes alot of starvation. To document something like that isn't something a person does for money, because the money sucks. It isn't something a person does for the enjoyment of seeing people suffer, because it's not enjoyable. It's something a person does because they feel they have to bear witness to such tragedy so the world can see what is happening. And face it, if he had helped those people instead of taking pictures, he would have not been able to do continue his job, and it isn't just a matter of him saying he put OTHER PEOPLE'S lives over his job, he was caught in the middle of firefights himself and shot at to document what was happening. One of his companions who he worked with was shot and killed photographing violence in south africa, violence this same photographer went to capture after his friend had been killed.

So I'm sorry but it's a far more complicated issue than some people make it out to be. This isn't something as simple as hitting your breaks to not run over an old lady crossing the street, it's a very complex situation.


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## stonecoldsteveostin (Nov 15, 2003)

well fellas, it looks to me like the photographer did his job. look at what the picture has caused over here. now imagine everyone else that has been able to see the picture, and how the feel about africa's poverty now. as for the feeding and helping part, as someone already mentioned.......she is too far down the road for help, she would not have made it even with alot of help i would say.


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## sadboy (Jan 6, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> sadboy said:
> 
> 
> > It dosent matter what a person does for a living.
> ...


I hear what you are saying bro. That's why I didnt make a statment as to what he did was right or wrong. I will do some reading on this matter and make up my own mind. It's just when I was reading this thread some people make it seem so black & white. And it reminded me of all those worthless people who live here aound me in Socal, and will let somene die because they dont want to get hurt or sued. I think (and this is off topic) that people dont care about anybody but themselves. Basic morals that everyone shoud share are being forgotten. *Help those who you can help, if you can*. I'm not talking about helping getting rid of the homeless, or getting rib of poverty. I'm just talking about, if you see someone in troble, help them out if you can. Even if that means, helping a person fix a flat.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Hey man I agree, I help whoever I can because I think the world could be alot fuckin nicer if people commited a minimal effort to make things easier on each other, and it wasn't specifically directed at you that I said that. And (this isn't directed at you because like you pointed out, you didn't judge right or wrong) I just think this situation is a whole lot more complicated than some people make it out to be. Sudan is not America, and this isn't like an orphan child on the streets who could be saved if you just stopped your car to take them to a hospital on the way home like some people seem to think of it as


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## eL ChiNo LoCo (Apr 16, 2004)

Hahahahahahhahahahaha.....................hahahaha........wow.

Twitch, what most of us are trying to say is, if this photographer had a heart, he shouldve helped. He didnt and well his conscience got the better of him.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Closed temporarily to take out the trash.

Re-opened.

Please do not ruin this thread again.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

eL ChiNo LoCo said:


> Hahahahahahhahahahaha.....................hahahaha........wow.
> 
> Twitch, what most of us are trying to say is, if this photographer had a heart, he shouldve helped. *He didnt and well his conscience got the better of him.*
> [snapback]1135383[/snapback]​


I don't believe it was this incident in particular that caused him to kill himself, let alone a matter of conscience at all. Do a bit of reading on him and he'd always had problems, he was a drug user to escape the memories of the things he'd seen (like I mentioned, he'd seen people murdered in cold blood among other stuff) and he'd increasingly been unable to handle the pressures he was subject to with his new found fame. He suffered from depression well before the photo was taken, and he actually didn't mention the girl at all in his suicide note.


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## hyphen (Apr 4, 2004)

Natt King Shoal said:


> hyphen said:
> 
> 
> > Ms_Nattereri said:
> ...


oh yeah, i guess it's better to refer to a person as "IT" because you don't know his or her gender. should you call a transgender person "it"? i'd rather guess wrong than call a person "it".


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Look, he got his awesome picture. He DID his job. And if you read the story, it says (paraphrase) "And then, he left."

So what I'm saying is AFTER he DID his job, he could have helped, but he didn't. His job was to document, fine. He did his job. Then he decided to just leave. So F him.


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## elTwitcho (Jun 22, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Look, he got his awesome picture. He DID his job. And if you read the story, it says (paraphrase) "And then, he left."
> 
> So what I'm saying is AFTER he DID his job, he could have helped, but he didn't. His job was to document, fine. He did his job. Then he decided to just leave. So F him.
> [snapback]1135785[/snapback]​


Maybe you don't understand how publishing works, but you can not submit just one picture to show for a weeks work. As I said, his job was not to get one picture, it was to document what was going on there, and if you knew anything about photography you sure as f*ck would not suggest someone bank their job on one exposure they can't even check to confirm it came out until afterwards.

And like I said, you decided to do your job and not go there in the first place, who are you to say anything? People are starving to death right now, and not making it to aid camps, why aren't you helping if it's so important?


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

elTwitcho said:


> Scrap5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Look, he got his awesome picture. He DID his job. And if you read the story, it says (paraphrase) "And then, he left."
> ...


Hey man, I do what I can to help what's around me. If I was in Africa on assignement then I would help out there. I aint gonna quit my job and go there. But if I was there already then I'd help, just like I'd help here. He didn't have to quit his job to go there; his job took him there. Plain and simple.

And he had time to go home and smoke a phatty, so don't tell me he would have been abandoning his whole job and risking not getting the job done. That is B.S. He decided to take some pics, then get high. He had time to get high, and that's time not spent doing his job. So instead of getting high, he could have used that time to help.

Sorry Twitch, your logic is groundless.


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## Sam (Mar 18, 2004)

Who says he'd have to quit his job to save one little girl?

If you can help even one person, then it's worth it to do what ever you can. 
I can't see the logic behind not doing anything.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Sam said:


> Who says he'd have to quit his job to save one little girl?
> 
> If you can help even one person, then it's worth it to do what ever you can.
> I can't see the logic behind not doing anything.
> [snapback]1136053[/snapback]​


Exactly!


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

theres a difference between doing your job and being a human being.he didnt know that difference and he paid for it.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

lightning2004 said:


> theres a difference between doing your job and being a human being.he didnt know that difference and he paid for it.
> [snapback]1136070[/snapback]​



View attachment 71030


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

i bet u have walked by many homeless people in ur life and not even done anything.. hypocrites


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

im never walked near homeless shelters..but as far has people in the street..its 50/50 for me..sometimes i give them sometimes i dont..really depends on the day im having..wich i know is wrong cause no matter how bad mines is it cant be worse then theirs..


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

jiggy said:


> i bet u have walked by many homeless people in ur life and not even done anything.. hypocrites
> [snapback]1136187[/snapback]​


Hey man, if I was to give money or food to every homeless person in nyc I'd be homeless myself. Besides, there's plenty of shelters for them to get help at, that my tax dollars go towards supporting. If I saw one lying in the street about to die, with a stray dog waiting to eat his soon to be dead body, I'm pretty sure I'd call 911 or help in some other way other than just taking a pic and going home to smoke a big fat bag of crack...


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

lightning2004 said:


> theres a difference between doing your job and being a human being.he didnt know that difference and he paid for it.
> [snapback]1136070[/snapback]​


So what was he supposed to do then, huh? Stay 3 months in Africa to nurse her back to health? I doubt anyone is so naieve to believe that filling her up with water and some corn bread or whatever is enough to save her... Adopt her and take her home with him? Feed her camera films, so she got at least something in her stomach?
And even if he saved her (which was more than likely already impossible even if he wanted to do so - just look at her: do you really think a vulture would come out of the air just to casually check something out?), then what? What about the 100's, 1000's, in fact millions of others? Save one for a good conscious? Save one to shut up those that point fingers without knowing what they talk about, let alone what these people go through to tell the world what's otherwise left untold?

Pictures do more than any individual reporter could do even if he'd work his ass off 24/7. He's a journalist, not an aid worker.
It's nice to act all hight and mighty from your comfy chair behind your computer and point judgmental fingers at will while sipping on your diet Coke, but that doesn't solve a goddamned thing: never has, never will. At least that guy took pictures to tell the world the story. And what did you do, Mr. Righteous?


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

would it be so hard to walk his grown up healthy body to get the kid some food?ask yourself this lets all has matter of fact put ourselves in his position..some company has paid you big bucks to get pictures like this..and you take this one..do you just leave or do you try to get the kid some food?you know we always say middle easterners have no feelings or love for life cause they kill each others with bombs straped to themselves..if you leave that child your no better then them cause you had the power to help but you choose to let it die..peirod end of story.i dont care how your way of thinking is..bottom line thats all you are.


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## User (May 31, 2004)

Scrap5000 said:


> Hey man, if I was to give money or food to every homeless person in nyc I'd be homeless myself. Besides, there's plenty of shelters for them to get help at, that my tax dollars go towards supporting. If I saw one lying in the street about to die, with a stray dog waiting to eat his soon to be dead body, I'm pretty sure I'd call 911 or help in some other way other than just taking a pic and going home to smoke a big fat bag of crack...
> [snapback]1136198[/snapback]​


That is a total different situation.



User said:


> I guess all photographers need to start to shove rice and water down dehydrated dying kids mouth just to say they did something good for world, or to please other people back home. And so people can feel well about themselves and live through the photographer.
> 
> I'm not sure how anybody can compare USA to Africa.
> [snapback]1134999[/snapback]​


Above is a half quote from a few pages back. People are bitching on this incident while millions are dying right now. I guess if I personally ordered a bomb raid on Pretoria or Khartoum and atleast one person lived through it, I can save my moral confidence and conscience.

Reverse statement; holds the same logic as trying to save one dying person while thousands and millions starve. A vulture had already landed. And he chose not to help.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

i really didnt want get involved with the thread..but it seemed some people forgot what being human is about..this is no different then seeing a kid the same age in a alley..do you just drive by?give me a break..im done with this thread..


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

lightning2004 said:


> would it be so hard to walk his grown up healthy body to get the kid some food?ask yourself this lets all has matter of fact put ourselves in his position..some company has paid you big bucks to get pictures like this..and you take this one..do you just leave or do you try to get the kid some food?you know we always say middle easterners have no feelings or love for life cause they kill each others with bombs straped to themselves..if you leave that child your no better then them cause you had the power to help but you choose to let it die..peirod end of story.i dont care how your way of thinking is..bottom line thats all you are.
> [snapback]1136218[/snapback]​


Dude, he was in Africa - it's not that that little girl there crawled around and nearly died in front of the lens as a publicity stunt. For each person you save, ten others die. You don't just walk up to someone and ask for food and water - they'll ask you for the same...

btw: you're a joke







Comparing people who say what he did is excusable with terrorists blowing themselves up: it just shows you don't know jack sh*t about terrorism nor journalism. Are you truely that dumb and ignorant, or are you just pretending. For your sake I sure hope it's the latter.
But if it makes you happy that I'm equal to a suicide bomber just because I don't stuff my finger in that photographers face and pass negative judgement - good for you


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

no you ass you cant save them all..but you can save whats within your reach..so lets say one of your fish has a disease and some are dieing..do you just say screw it..or try to save what you can?its obvious why this thread was shut down cause of people like you cant have a convo without name calling like were in the third grade.how in the hell did you become a mod man.mods are supposed to keep trash out but your making trashwith posts like that..if you talk to people that way there not just gona ignore it there gona come back with stuff just like that and soon the whole thread is ruined..you should think the outcome of your words before typing them..no one will respect you for being a badass or trying to clown someone online..has a mod i would think youd know that..you make the other mods look bad doing this..


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## User (May 31, 2004)

lightning2004 said:


> i really didnt want get involved with the thread..but it seemed some people forgot what being human is about..this is no different then seeing a kid the same age in a alley..do you just drive by?give me a break..im done with this thread..
> [snapback]1136230[/snapback]​


So because *he chose* not to help the child, people have forgot what being human is about?









Wrong dude, kids by the millions aren't dying in every country in the west by starvation, of course you can help that kid in the alley. We have industrialized and very modern hospitals all over the USA. An American or any Western child starving would not get corn, rice, and water bonged down the mouth and released. Those kids in Africa need more than just food to live.

I'm glad people have taken it upon themselves in this thread to tell people what is moral and what someone can personally choose to do in a situation.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

User said:


> lightning2004 said:
> 
> 
> > i really didnt want get involved with the thread..but it seemed some people forgot what being human is about..this is no different then seeing a kid the same age in a alley..do you just drive by?give me a break..im done with this thread..
> ...


i guess were all built differently..i love kids and would have done what i can to help this one..sure later down he/she may die from hunger again..but at least when im in front of god he cant say you had the power to do something and let he/she die..thats just how i feel..im not gona appoligize for that..


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

lightning2004 said:


> no you ass you cant save them all..but you can save whats within your reach..so lets say one of your fish has a disease and some are dieing..do you just say screw it..or try to save what you can?its obvious why this thread was shut down cause of people like you cant have a convo without name calling like were in the third grade.how in the hell did you become a mod man.mods are supposed to keep trash out but your making trashwith posts like that..if you talk to people that way there not just gona ignore it there gona come back with stuff just like that and soon the whole thread is ruined..you should think the outcome of your words before typing them..no one will respect you for being a badass or trying to clown someone online..has a mod i would think youd know that..you make the other mods look bad doing this..
> [snapback]1136262[/snapback]​


If you compare me with a suicide bomber, or say I'm no better than them because of my opinions, just because I can understand why the photographer didn't help out, I reply as myself, not as a mod: I don't care about my title if someone talks thrash to me and thinks he can compare me with whatever he wants because of my opinions. You think you can call me a suicide bomber, or being as bad as them, and think I don't care about that because I'm a mod? When replying to one of my posts you're talking to me, not to my title.
I'm pretty sure you will ignore all that, and just keep on ranting about me calling you names, about how I'm giving other mods a bad name, about how I should be a mod as I'm a danger to this board and blablabla.......







And that's fine - I don't expect you to understand the difference between a person and a title...


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

theres nothing wrong with defending yourself has a person man.but title dictates behavior.you can defend yourself in a civilized manor.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

lightning2004 said:


> theres nothing wrong with defending yourself has a person man.but title dictates behavior.you can defend yourself in a civilized manor.
> [snapback]1136284[/snapback]​


Yes, against civilized insults








Well, I'm done with this - I hope you too, because I don't think all this is that much on-topic any more.
It's just that if people attack or insult me personally (and as you may have noticed, being called no better than a terrorist just because of my personal opinions does really piss me off), they can expect personal replies. I know mods are supposed to be role models, but that doesn't mean everyone has carte blanche to take pot shots on mods and getting away with that because they are supposed to show model behaviour - they're humans too, not just titles.

Well, I'm going to leave it at that - there's better things to do on this site than argueing about things like this


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

This whole thread has gotten ridiculous. People seem to be judging one mans actions in a hell hole they can't even comprehend. The kindest thing he could have done was to put a bullet into the poor childs head rather than let her die slowly but die she would, no ifs ands or buts. If he picked her up and carried her to an overcrowded camp do you think her death would be any different or less certain? The people that are arguing about taking her to some mythical "place" to get her food don't have a clue about the actuality of the situation. THERE WAS NO FOOD!! Get it? No food, no medical supplies no chance for her or the other couple of thousand people that died. You can "love the children" all you want but that won't feed them if THERE ISN"T ANY FOOD! There are still, TO THIS VERY DAY, thousands of people dying in the exact same place that that picture was taken. I can't believe the smug "holier than thou" attitudes that people are taking about this, judging, from the comfort of their living rooms .


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)




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## Blitz023 (Feb 19, 2004)

im going back to work.


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Bawb2u said:


> This whole thread has gotten ridiculous. People seem to be judging one mans actions in a hell hole they can't even comprehend. The kindest thing he could have done was to put a bullet into the poor childs head rather than let her die slowly but die she would, no ifs ands or buts. If he picked her up and carried her to an overcrowded camp do you think her death would be any different or less certain? The people that are arguing about taking her to some mythical "place" to get her food don't have a clue about the actuality of the situation. THERE WAS NO FOOD!! Get it? No food, no medical supplies no chance for her or the other couple of thousand people that died. You can "love the children" all you want but that won't feed them if THERE ISN"T ANY FOOD! There are still, TO THIS VERY DAY, thousands of people dying in the exact same place that that picture was taken. I can't believe the smug "holier than thou" attitudes that people are taking about this, judging, from the comfort of their living rooms .
> [snapback]1136318[/snapback]​


What are you talking about, "no food"?? The U.N. food camp was 1 kilometer away. A little over half a mile away, which was where she was crawling to. The mystical place was not mystical...read the whole story or at least the caption on the pic before you comment...


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## Bawb2u (May 27, 2004)

What are you talking about, "no food"?? The U.N. food camp was 1 kilometer away. A little over half a mile away, which was where she was crawling to. The mystical place was not mystical...read the whole story or at least the caption on the pic before you comment...
[snapback]1137277[/snapback]​[/quote]

You seem to have the idea that there was plenty of food "just 1 kilometer away", that just isn't true.In 1994 there was a continuing famine and hard fighting in the latest flareup of the civil war that had been going on since 1985. Outside supplies had been cut to 25% of what was available in 1993. Thousands of people were dying PER MONTH in the food camps themselves, that doesn't count the one's that never made it to the camps. You should really do some more research into what the actual conditions are involved, you seem to be under the impression that there were some type of miracle working food supply available just down the road.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

hyphen said:


> Natt King Shoal said:
> 
> 
> > hyphen said:
> ...


Why are you making the issue surrounding the word "it" bigger than it is?


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## Scrap5000 (Mar 4, 2005)

Bawb2u said:


> What are you talking about, "no food"?? The U.N. food camp was 1 kilometer away. A little over half a mile away, which was where she was crawling to. The mystical place was not mystical...read the whole story or at least the caption on the pic before you comment...
> [snapback]1137277[/snapback]​


You seem to have the idea that there was plenty of food "just 1 kilometer away", that just isn't true.In 1994 there was a continuing famine and hard fighting in the latest flareup of the civil war that had been going on since 1985. Outside supplies had been cut to 25% of what was available in 1993. Thousands of people were dying PER MONTH in the food camps themselves, that doesn't count the one's that never made it to the camps. You should really do some more research into what the actual conditions are involved, you seem to be under the impression that there were some type of miracle working food supply available just down the road.
[snapback]1137410[/snapback]​[/quote]

That's different then, but all the stories I read say the food camp was a kilometer away...
Besides, everyone saying it was not his place to help was based on the assumption that there WAS a food camp close by, and that would be so wrong of him to just leave if he could help.


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