# What would sufice on a 150 with 5-7 pygos..



## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

3 xp3 or 3 emps.....


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## Joga Bonito (Oct 30, 2004)

timmy said:


> 3 xp3 or 3 emps.....
> [snapback]1128629[/snapback]​


what about, 2 emps and one xp3


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

timmy said:


> 3 xp3 or 3 emps.....
> [snapback]1128629[/snapback]​


I thought you were doing a wet dry?

If you arent, I suggest 2 of each. And suff each with as much Biomax as humanly possible. This will give you a 10x per hour turnover rate, which IMHO is the MINIMUM to have with pygo's, and a decent biomedia surface area.

If you do, lets say a 800 GPH wet dry, you could get away with that and a pair of XP3's. That would be ideal. That would provide the same turnover and have a bigger biomedia surface area.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

2 xp3 and 1 or 2 i suggest 2 ac500's


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

just my opinion but i would say 1 xp3 and 2 emp 400's should do you just fine.I have 3 400's on my 55 with 25 fish in there and never have n e problems.(thats large fish in there).


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> just my opinion but i would say 1 xp3 and 2 emp 400's should do you just fine.I have 3 400's on my 55 with 25 fish in there and never have n e problems.(thats large fish in there).
> [snapback]1128966[/snapback]​


you got pics of this?..lol


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

:rasp: very much so.although i cant post n e till crosshairs gets back from vacation.Would you like me to list the fish and everything i got in a 55 gal it would blow most peoples minds.


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> :rasp: very much so.although i cant post n e till crosshairs gets back from vacation.Would you like me to list the fish and everything i got in a 55 gal it would blow most peoples minds.
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i think i remember some catfish of wich you dont know what it is 2-3 bala sharks and others?


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

ok here we go:
3 bala sharks-3to 6 inches
1 pacu about 9 inches
4 loaches-3to 4 inches
7 butterfly loaches about 2 to 5 inches
1 gourami 3 inches
1 green killi 3inches
1 blue killi 2 inches
1 golden killi 1 and a half inches
1 catfish unknown about 7 inches maybe 8
1 syndodonis 5 inches
2 silver htchets 1 inchers
1 pink tailed chelsus(however it is spelled)around 5 to 6 inches
1 8 inch chocolate pleco
1 3 inch blood parrot
1 various type of chiclid
3 emporor 400's
1 300 gal per hour powerhead
1 275 gal per hour powerhead
1 tank length bubble wall wall ran by very powerful air pump
3 different type of houses 
very heavily planted with both live and fake plants 
well thats about all for now will be adding more in the future
well here is a quick run down of my 30 gallon
1 about 8 inch ghost knife
1 8 inch tire track eel 
1 blood parrot about 4 inches
3 3 inch butterfly loaches
large angel fish-1 
with about 700 gals an hour of water moving through it
55 gal-
1 3 inch gold rhom
55 gal-
9 4 to 6 inch gold spilo's
30 gal-
2 3 to 4 inch pariya
29 gal
25 medium angel fish
30 gal 5 large koi(sometimes feeders)
20 gal-
breeding cory's
10 gal
more damn angelfish babies 2 butterfly loaches and 2 cory's
well i'll stop with that for now i do have more and am adding alot more fish tanks as you can tell i got into the hobby and it as took over my life.Funny though only about maybe 2 hours of tank ,aintance every month and the tanks are always cyrstal clear.


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

sorry to get off the topic timmy that was bad of me. sorry again


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## lightning2004 (Jun 25, 2005)

AKSkirmish said:


> ok here we go:
> 3 bala sharks-3to 6 inches
> 1 pacu about 9 inches
> 4 loaches-3to 4 inches
> ...


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## malicious1 (Jul 4, 2005)

..what was the point in that?


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

AKSkirmish said:


> sorry to get off the topic timmy that was bad of me. sorry again
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No prob.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

Any who, back on topic...... I am so stuck on this it isn't funny. I aqm goni to have 6 pygos in the 150. The tank is in my bd at the foot of my bed. It is not drilled. A wet dry would be loud but be the best thing. Or i could get 2 xp3 and a uv for the thing. What do you thinbk?


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> I thought you were doing a wet dry?
> 
> If you arent, I suggest 2 of each. And suff each with as much Biomax as humanly possible. This will give you a 10x per hour turnover rate, which IMHO is the MINIMUM to have with pygo's, and a decent biomedia surface area.


Doctorvtec,

I doubt that turnover rate of 10x very much.
Lets see, in a 150 g tank it means 1.500 gph and the water changes every 6 minutes.
What does this cause?
In order to grow and feed nitrate bacteria with 1.500 gph one would probably need canisters with a filter volume (biomedia volume) of about 12 gallons
(according to EHEIMs calculations). And of course huge feedings.
OK you can do this by buying many canisters.
But if it works, it can produce a huge amount of NO3 in the tank water.
To get rid of that, one would have to change 150 g water few times a week.

I suggest to cut down on feedings instead.
Then again I do not believe 5 Pygo's need to feeded so much.

Regards,


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

harrykaa said:


> Doctorvtec,
> 
> I doubt that turnover rate of 10x very much.
> Lets see, in a 150 g tank it means 1.500 gph and the water changes every 6 minutes.
> ...


How do you doubt the turnover rate very much? The turnover rate of an Emperor is 400 GPH, the turnover rate of an XP3 is 350 GPH. Two of each of those filters is 1500 GPH. The canisters will each hold a good amount of biomedia, as will the HOB filters, which also have 2 biowheels each.

This filtration setup, cycled properly to handle a large bioload, with 2 25% a week water changes, will handle the pygo's in that tank. He will have a decent turnover rate, and a good bit of biomedia.

Of course the wet/dry will work better, but this is an option at well


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

doctorvtec said:


> How do you doubt the turnover rate very much? The turnover rate of an Emperor is 400 GPH, the turnover rate of an XP3 is 350 GPH. Two of each of those filters is 1500 GPH. The canisters will each hold a good amount of biomedia, as will the HOB filters, which also have 2 biowheels each.
> 
> This filtration setup, cycled properly to handle a large bioload, with 2 25% a week water changes, will handle the pygo's in that tank. He will have a decent turnover rate, and a good bit of biomedia.
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Doctorvtec,

Sir, you are right in your calculations in order to get the 1.500 gph.
I did only emphasize the fact that so great turnover rate is not needed.
At least 5 Pygo's in a 150 g tank will not need that much.

I know this because I have 4 Pygo's (7-8") in a 150 g and I am feeding them well:
every 2 or 3 days as much as they can eat. This is going to burden the tank water, but it needs enough of biofiltration media (sintered glass balls) in order to handle the bioload.

Nitrate bacteria do need the circulating water, because they need oxygen in the process of transforming ammonia into nitrates: NH4 + 3 O2 into NO3 + 2 H2O. EHEIM calculates that a 300 g tank will need 4 g of biofiltration media and a water circultaion of 500 gph for them. In a Pygo tank this is good for a 150 g tank and 4-5 Pygos.

Regards,


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## anthongy817 (May 3, 2005)

lets just maket his simple...

get one canister filter... (i use xp3 and i love it).

and get a 1200gph wet/dry filter.

and if you want even cleaner water...stick a uv sterilizer into there..

that'll be approx. 10x turnover per hour.

done and done.

and a wet/dry would just be as loud as 2 emp400. but then again the louder you hear water..the better gas exchange you're getting.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

anthongy817 said:


> lets just maket his simple...
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> get one canister filter... (i use xp3 and i love it).
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My tank is not drilled so the overflow and pre filter are pretty loud. My dilema is with the 1200gph wetdry being to loud in my bd room... IS there anyway to make it so it is not so noisy..?


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## anthongy817 (May 3, 2005)

timmy said:


> anthongy817 said:
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i wouldn't think the overflow and prefilter would really be that loud...i would only think that the pump and the dripped from the bioballs would be annoying...


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## AKSkirmish (Jun 24, 2005)

i still say somthing like 2 emp 400's and either an xp3 of like a fluval 4o4.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

anthongy817 said:


> timmy said:
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It is reallly loud. I had one last year and sold it.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

The 10x turnover rate minimum doesn't apply to cannister filters because they use the European philosophy of low turnover rate but large amounts of media.

I'd do 2 emps and one xp3 like Henry suggested.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> The 10x turnover rate minimum doesn't apply to cannister filters because they use the European philosophy of low turnover rate but large amounts of media.
> 
> I'd do 2 emps and one xp3 like Henry suggested.
> [snapback]1130281[/snapback]​


But canisters lack a direct oxygen source for the media like the Emp's have since it's a sealed system. This makes them a less effective means of biofiltration. (Note less effective not ineffective). That is why it is still safe to use the 1x rule.

This is also why I always stress that turnover isn't everything.

Either way, 8-10 turnovers is fine.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

doctorvtec said:


> scrappydoo said:
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> > The 10x turnover rate minimum doesn't apply to cannister filters because they use the European philosophy of low turnover rate but large amounts of media.
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If you have the spraybar or outlet breaking the water then there's plenty of oxygen in the water.


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> doctorvtec said:
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Yea but it's not the same. Biowheels are better because of the direct contact with the air, much like wet/dry's.

Not dissing can's though, sh*t I have 1 myself with another on the way! I am honestly thinking of ditching the emp and adding a wet/dry, just because I want to experiment with one, and have never done one.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

So, the3 verdict is 2 xp3 and a uv?

Please say yes, as i am having a hard time deciding...


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

I am thinking of to xp3 and a uv


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## ~Silly~Spy (Mar 12, 2005)

timmy just keep your 3 emps and add a xp3 or a 404, both are nice filters.

and i'm not sure if i understand what you guys are talking about with the oxygen in the water , but won't a powerhead help with that? mine makes crazy bubbles.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

~Silly~Spy said:


> timmy just keep your 3 emps and add a xp3 or a 404, both are nice filters.
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> and i'm not sure if i understand what you guys are talking about with the oxygen in the water , but won't a powerhead help with that? mine makes crazy bubbles.
> [snapback]1131061[/snapback]​


Yes, your power head is great with the bubbles.


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

Yes 2 and a uv will be fine.........believe me...









Everyone has different opionions.I believe this will be fine.the uv doesnt really have to do with bioload.


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

mashunter18 said:


> Yes 2 and a uv will be fine.........believe me...
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Thank you!


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

mashunter18 said:


> Yes 2 and a uv will be fine.........believe me...
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So, two xp3's and a uv, will be good nothing else as far as filtration. I dont want to use the emps, as it will get to costly to change out the pads and sh*t..


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## mashunter18 (Jan 2, 2004)

timmy said:


> mashunter18 said:
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> > Yes 2 and a uv will be fine.........believe me...
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Yeah that will work.Why dont you use extra sponge and bio media, then you will never have to change anything.Just rinse them in tank water every once in a while......








On emp 400's I run ceramic in the plastic cartridhes they give you, and I fill the other slot with sponges....

I dont use carbon myself, I like extra sources for bacteria, sponges hold alot also and help filter out more debri.

Big als sells some big als brand sponges that are priced right, and I use a utility blade to cut them to size.........








Some people like to run carbon and ammo chips and what not.I prefer to not over feed and keep phosphate to a minimum, cuts down on diatoms(brown algae) and waste...


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

mashunter18 said:


> timmy said:
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Ceramic?


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## doctorvtec (May 15, 2004)

timmy said:


> Ceramic?
> [snapback]1132320[/snapback]​


Biomedia like biomax. I do the same thing on my Emps.


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