# How long do red bellys live?



## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

I currently own a RBP that I have had for over 23 years. He has been in a 55 gallon for most of his life by himself. Mostly raised on goldfish. Just wondered what the average life expectancy is in captivity. Thanks.


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## GoriLLaFromDaMisT (Aug 15, 2006)

RedBellyDave said:


> I currently own a RBP that I have had for over 23 years. He has been in a 55 gallon for most of his life by himself. Mostly raised on goldfish. Just wondered what the average life expectancy is in captivity. Thanks.


I dunno but im sorry but i had to give you props on as long as you had him so far you truelly no how to take care of your animal


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## piranha065 (Mar 24, 2006)

i dont know the life expectancy but i have a question. you state that your ps diet has consisted mostly of goldfish. many members and forums are adament about not constantly feeding ps goldfish because of particular growth inhibitors that they contain. my question is, how big is your p and a second one is, do you feed it anything else. i am fairly new to the p hobby but i have been told some ps live about 25 yrs. i'm not sure about rbps though. sorry for not being able to answer your question and thanks in advance for your answer.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

Got some pics how big is he ? Everyone says goldfish stunt your fish growth if urs has been raised on them im curiouse to see how big it is ?


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

RB 32 said:


> Can you post some pics please??


x2 i want to see the size of this thing.


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

I will post a picture. Currently looking for batteries for digital camera. Fed mostly goldfish, sometimes hotdogs or luncheon meat when looked hungry and did not have goldfish available. Never did attempt to feed vegetables. Hard to measure in tank, but I would say that he is 9.5" long, 4" high (not including fins) and 2" wide. Again, I will post picture ASAP.


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

i know everyone says gold fish are bad but so is mcdonalds
but its kind of funny cause i wont feed my ps goldfish but i eat mcdonalds


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

RedBellyDave said:


> I will post a picture. Currently looking for batteries for digital camera. Fed mostly goldfish, sometimes hotdogs or luncheon meat when looked hungry and did not have goldfish available. Never did attempt to feed vegetables. Hard to measure in tank, but I would say that he is 9.5" long, 4" high (not including fins) and 2" wide. Again, I will post picture ASAP.


If your being seriouse that is amazing do you do water changes ? Cause i seen many members take amazinf care of there fish and they just drop dead randomly and you have been feeding what most people call garbage to your ps and yours are so old.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

Mostly just add water. We have moved the aquarium to 3 different houses. Other than that not many water changes, mostly add water. What does everyone recommend these days (food and water) I don't recall anyone telling me not to feed goldfish 20 years ago. If I give him 40 large comets, they will last a couple of weeks or so. Gives him good exercise chasing them around the tank.


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

RedBellyDave said:


> Mostly just add water. We have moved the aquarium to 3 different houses. Other than that not many water changes, mostly add water. What does everyone recommend these days (food and water) I don't recall anyone telling me not to feed goldfish 20 years ago. If I give him 40 large comets, they will last a couple of weeks or so. Gives him good exercise chasing them around the tank.


Well mostly feed raw shrimp white fish fillets beef heart blood worms healthy stuff like that. Recommend weekly water changes, although your red is 9,5 inchs for a 25 year old fish not that big ive had my reds for a year and half and 2 of them are pushing 9 inch right now.


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

a-ronn said:


> I will post a picture. Currently looking for batteries for digital camera. Fed mostly goldfish, sometimes hotdogs or luncheon meat when looked hungry and did not have goldfish available. Never did attempt to feed vegetables. Hard to measure in tank, but I would say that he is 9.5" long, 4" high (not including fins) and 2" wide. Again, I will post picture ASAP.


If your being seriouse that is amazing do you do water changes ? Cause i seen many members take amazinf care of there fish and they just drop dead randomly and you have been feeding what most people call garbage to your ps and yours are so old.
[/quote]

I am being serious. I can see where a more varied diet would be beneficial, but also believe that chasing down prey is beneficial. I did not know that goldfish are supposed to be bad. I do not do many water changes but do monitor ph and make sure to remove and uneaten food. I also have a good undergravel filter, powerheads, and magnum 220 canister filter. The junk food was only used as a treat or filler until the next batch of fish. Goldfish have been the staple. Can you suggest a better feeder fish. I did not want minnows because they will have a higher rate of disease. I am very proud to have raised a fish to this age. I don't know how much longer I should expect him to live, but am willing to try something different if it is supposed to be healthier. He does seem to be slowing down a bit, but that could have something to do with the excessive heat he had to endure this summer when our airconditioner went out.


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

RB 32 said:


> I currently own a RBP that I have had for over 23 years. He has been in a 55 gallon for most of his life by himself. Mostly raised on goldfish. Just wondered what the average life expectancy is in captivity. Thanks.


Over 30 years!

How big is this piranha?.......and was it fed only goldfish??
[/quote]

Is 30+ years and average for RBP or the longest record? Yes, his staple is almost all goldfish. If his size is stunted at all, I would have to say it was from the tank size. But I think he is average size adult. I have given measurements earlier in the posts. Will try to post a picture sometime tomorrow. I think he is starting to show his age, this is why I was asking the question. I read somewhere that 15 years was the average, but larger species could live longer.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

a-ronn said:


> - About 10 to 15 is average!


Thank you


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## oryschakgp (Nov 5, 2005)

Sounds to me like you really abused the fish for 25 years more than anything. Crappy food, limited water changes. Just because he lived that long doesn't mean he was well taken care of.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

An old post from Frank (hastatus):

_"I have been following this post and saw many different ideas on the longevity of piranas. In truth, there is no cut off date on their age, only recorded examples of captivity. Well documented here in Oregon is a P. nattereri expiring at age 37. Not known if mortality was natural or other disease or parasite problems. There are photos of it and I plan to see about securing them for you all to see. Another one is being kept by a young lady in TN. Her P. nattereri is 33 years old. Another example is the S. rhombeus I discuss that was 30 years old when it was accidently killed. So here are a few examples of how long a P. nattereri could live and others as well. It all strictly depends on its health and how well you care for it." _

9,5" is not su much for a 25 years old P Bro







... keep in mind most Reds should get +9" in a couple of years with proper feeding, tank space and water conditions (among many other factors). You stunted your fish growth, that's a fact, but of course it wasn't intentionally. But you have the chance now to do things right...

1.- I strongly recommend different kinds of white meat fish fillets (90% of fish diet), shrimp and squid as staple food.

2.- Undergravel filters are useless on piranha tanks. Messy fish (as Piranha) need at least hang on back filters and canisters. Get rid of your UGF!

3.- Weekly partial (30-35%) water changes while vacuuming tank gravel is a must. Get a "Python No Spill Clean and Fill" to make it easier.

4.- Do not feed Goldfish or any other feeder (if possible). Feeders are a little risky for your P since they can carry internal (unapparental) diseases harmful/fatal to your fish. I you use feeders (not recommended) at least you should quarantine them for 2-3 weeks.

5.- Get a powerhead (if you don't have one) to make him more active. It also helps fish breathing.

If you do as recommended your fish should live happy and comfortable his final years... good luck...







!


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## cueball (May 24, 2005)

on the question of age i wonder how long a rhom well live over the red?
since it takes rhoms so long to grow and all


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

Wow, RedBellyDave, you opened up a lot of topics there.





















I would not say that you have abused your fish by any means. There is a wealth of information on this site that you need to catch up on. Basically, just follow Mr. Hannibal's advice.











> i know everyone says gold fish are bad but so is mcdonalds
> but its kind of funny cause i wont feed my ps goldfish but i eat mcdonalds


I have often wondered if members treat their own bodies as well as thier fish. Food for thought.


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## black_piranha (Jan 12, 2006)

wow, ur one commited guy.


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!

Pictures have been added!!!


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

Pictures have been added!!!
What do you think???

View attachment 117524
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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

Mr. Hannibal said:


> An old post from Frank (hastatus):
> 
> _"I have been following this post and saw many different ideas on the longevity of piranas. In truth, there is no cut off date on their age, only recorded examples of captivity. Well documented here in Oregon is a P. nattereri expiring at age 37. Not known if mortality was natural or other disease or parasite problems. There are photos of it and I plan to see about securing them for you all to see. Another one is being kept by a young lady in TN. Her P. nattereri is 33 years old. Another example is the S. rhombeus I discuss that was 30 years old when it was accidently killed. So here are a few examples of how long a P. nattereri could live and others as well. It all strictly depends on its health and how well you care for it." _
> 
> ...


I will take the advise as given. Do you really expect this fish to get bigger if it remains in the 55 gallon aquarium even with the dietary changes?

Thanks for your reply


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

RedBellyDave said:


> An old post from Frank (hastatus):
> 
> _"I have been following this post and saw many different ideas on the longevity of piranas. In truth, there is no cut off date on their age, only recorded examples of captivity. Well documented here in Oregon is a P. nattereri expiring at age 37. Not known if mortality was natural or other disease or parasite problems. There are photos of it and I plan to see about securing them for you all to see. Another one is being kept by a young lady in TN. Her P. nattereri is 33 years old. Another example is the S. rhombeus I discuss that was 30 years old when it was accidently killed. So here are a few examples of how long a P. nattereri could live and others as well. It all strictly depends on its health and how well you care for it." _
> 
> ...


I will take the advise as given. *Do you really expect this fish to get bigger if it remains in the 55 gallon aquarium even with the dietary changes?*

Thanks for your reply
[/quote]

An old post from Frank (hastatus):

_"With normal specimens, stunted seems to be a condition that is temporary. However, I have not tested this to any degree and my own experience with piranhas raised in small containers for more than 5 years, usually resulted in the fish extending its length after a period of a few months. Not a hard fast rule, yet something to consider."_

IMO growth depends on many many factors: genes (the individual), water conditions (filtration + water changes, no nitrates, enough oxigen), feeding (varied diet, enough food), exercise (tank current), water temp (related to fish metabolism), tank space (related to water quality), general health (no illness, parasites, stress...)&#8230;









So possibly your fish will grow if you do partial (30-35%) weekly water changes, raise your tank temp (to 82º) and feed him a varied nutritional diet... good luck







!


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Water changes are a must if you want him to grow.


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

RB 32 said:


> It's nice that it has a tint of red still....but as you know it should have been much bigger by now.... more than likely you will not see any growth from it anymore... did you really have this red for 23 years? If you did that's just awesome....not many people will keep a fish this long...they usually get sick of it in the first year or so.
> 
> Good luck with it rest of the way.


Sure did. Actually purchased when I was in 7th grade. That would be late 1982 or early 1983.


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## Natt King Shoal (Aug 7, 2004)

Thats incredible that you have had him that long!! I imagine there was not a lot of info in the 80s on what was healthy for fish so I thinki you did a good job considering. Uncooked shrimp from the grocery store is a good bet as well for feeding. Just thaw in warm water and serve! I doubt he will grow much due to the tank size and his/her age.


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

if it was just a juv when you bought it that kinda sucks that means it a 23 year old virgin poor bastar

and now its probally to old to get some


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## a-ronn (Jun 12, 2006)

Is it possible that with us takeing such good care of our fish it weakens there ammune system, here is a case where someone has kept a fish for 25 years only fed goldfish and other stuff we think isnt that good , and is still alive and looks good. In the wild there always eating diffrnt stuff rotting animals and everything. From us keeping such good care of our fish do you think this happens? because i think it is very possible.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> a-ronn Posted Today, 01:13 PM
> Is it possible that with us takeing such good care of our fish it weakens there ammune system, *here is a case where someone has kept a fish for 25 years only fed goldfish and other stuff we think isnt that good ,* and is still alive and looks good. In the wild there always eating diffrnt stuff rotting animals and everything. From us keeping such good care of our fish do you think this happens? because i think it is very possible.


Let's get past the obvious, the fish is still alive. However, goldfish food as the main source of nutrition has its problem already outlined here; growth inhibitor and parasite/disease carrier (as are most live foods). Nothing is published that says that goldfish will kill your piranha, only that it is not a nutritious food for the cited reasons.

9.5" is small compare to the P. nattereri that lived past 30 years old in private and zoological exhibits. They were all past 12-16" total length. Yes, 16" for a P. nattereri that was a common red-bellied not ternetzi. Photos are available here somewhere in PFURY, that I posted over a year ago or so. Water changes are the big plus in helping your fish grow along with proper diet and lastly aquarium size.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RB 32 Posted Today, 02:48 PM
> Frank can you post some pics of that 16" p. nattereri? I would love to see it.


You're welcome to dig for it. Its in my PSCI Forum.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

Found it quickly. Also good advice on growth issues.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RB 32 Posted Today, 04:26 PM
> Frank can you please tell me how big this red is?...I want to see if you can get it right.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


Good grief, I've been tested a million times on this. Go do a search on pfury. Accept the thread or not. Later~


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## jmax611 (Aug 6, 2006)

i agree with weakly water changes and a mix diet but it has worked for him so long why change now?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RB 32 Posted Today, 05:05 PM
> Ok can you if possible if you don't feel like doing it I understand...tell me how big that red is?


It not a question of "feeling like doing it" its a question of taking my time up to fool around with threads like these that are best answered by removing the fish out of water and measuring it. That is how you get an accurate measurement. The pixel is a method to get an approximate size.

Here is your photo. Those are the measurements based on eye diameter + caudal fin size = approximate distances based on the norm. You're welcome to take your fish out and measure it and see how close it is those measurements.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

And before anyone else asks, here is the original one. He is right, it is about 9.5 inches TL.

I used the gold fish which averages between 1.5 to 2 inches TL to quickly do this measurement.

Please, no one ask me to do anymore. It is time consuming.


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## Malok (Mar 26, 2006)

that was extremely smart using the gold fish props where its do

can u tell me how long the snake in my avatar is by using the rat joke please dont


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

> RB 32 Posted Today, 07:11 PM
> QUOTE(hastatus @ Aug 27 2006, 06:11 PM)
> 
> QUOTE
> ...


For everyone else, keep in mind his fish is slightly tilted so there is always a margin of error, usually a .5". Glad your fish was in the realm of what you measured.


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

View attachment 117684

Already had a hanging mechanical power filter rated at 360 gph and power underground filter utilizing 2 penguin 301 powerheads. Today I added a 660 powerhead rated at 106 gph at gravel level and fixed and added my magnum 350 canister with biowheels to the existing system. In addition I have been changing out about 2 gallons of water per day. I have notice much more activity. Just wondered if my p will be able to sleep with the constant water currents? Here is a new pic. Just can't keep him/her still enough to get a clear pic with my cam. Thanks to all for your help.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

RedBellyDave said:


> View attachment 117684
> 
> Already had a hanging mechanical power filter rated at 360 gph and power underground filter utilizing 2 penguin 301 powerheads. Today I added a 660 powerhead rated at 106 gph at gravel level and fixed and added my magnum 350 canister with biowheels to the existing system. In addition I have been changing out about 2 gallons of water per day. I have notice much more activity. Just wondered if my p will be able to sleep with the constant water currents? Here is a new pic. Just can't keep him/her still enough to get a clear pic with my cam. Thanks to all for your help.


Nice Bro... anyway i'd suggest you remove your UGF (under gravel filter). UGFs tend to clog easily and are useless for messy fish tanks (you should read this: http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.ph...ergravel+filter ). Just get rid of it ASAP :nod: !
... I recommend weekly partial (30-35%) water changes while vacuuming tank gravel... it's normal to notice more activity on your P since fresh water is like fresh air for us








... Ps need a calm spot to rest... a piece of driftwood will block the tank current if it's too strong...







!


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

Not using conditioners, I have a reverse osmosis system installed that I pull from. This is why I am only changing a couple of gallons per day, instead of 14 gallons all at once at the end of each week as recommended by other members. I don't believe that conditioners are necessary when using RO.


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## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)




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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

RB 32 said:


> Where you always using RO water? RO water is too pure...I suggest you use regular tap-water with water conditionar..


No, I have been using RO for the last 2 years. Mostly have been replacing evaporated water instead of doing water changes. My tap is softened water as well. Not sure about using it for the aquarium.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

RedBellyDave said:


> Where you always using RO water? RO water is too pure...I suggest you use regular tap-water with water conditionar..


No, I have been using RO for the last 2 years. Mostly have been replacing evaporated water instead of doing water changes. My tap is softened water as well. Not sure about using it for the aquarium.
[/quote]

IMO you should test your tap water...







!


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## RedBellyDave (Aug 26, 2006)

Look how much better my p looks after adding filtration and water flow. Also cleaned the gravel today. Just wanted to share. Should be good for another 10 years.

Thanks again to all...

View attachment 117869


By the way, once he ate a 9" maine lobster. It was quite a battle. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger... At least that's my theory.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

Very nice Bro, well done... soon you will notice more changes... just remember to remove your UGFs







!


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## Stugge (Jul 27, 2003)

Realy good job


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## the REASON (Jun 18, 2006)

RedBellyDave said:


> Look how much better my p looks after adding filtration and water flow. Also cleaned the gravel today. Just wanted to share. Should be good for another 10 years.
> 
> Thanks again to all...
> 
> ...


if you ever do this again.... please please please make a video or atleast take pics! haha nice job


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## bmpower007 (Feb 11, 2005)

This was a good thread, nice red


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## kenlperry (Aug 30, 2006)

I have a few questions/comments:

1. Is there proof that regular water changes are vital to a fishes growth?? Is this the case for all tropical fish or just piranha? I ask because I have limited piranha experience, but have had cichlids for 20+ years and I rarely do water changes either. I just remove excess food and do regular filter changes, and add new water as necessary(since some evaporates).. I have raised Managuense pairs, a FlowerHorn pair, Oscars, Black-Belt Cichlids, Red Devils, etc. In particular, I kept one baby from my FlowerHorn fry that were born in Nov. 2004. Well I never did regular water changes and I raised that fish from an egg to 11" inches(in a 55gallon) before I traded it in a few weeks ago(as it was just too big for the tanks I have and I felt it was time to let it go).... So I'm questioning the proof that regular water changes are vital to a fishes growth, since that has not been my experience.....

2. What proof is there about the importance of cycling a tank for weeks before placing fish in?? This is something I've never done and I have a very high success rate with fish living. Honestly, I never even heard of the cycling thing before I got on piranha-fury.... I mean, of course I do the basics: dechlorinate the water, heat it to a proper temp., and install a filter....

When I was young and immature, me and my friends used to take our cichlids to each others homes and fight them and then take them back home and they were fine. I'd switch a fish between 4 different tanks in my home simply using a net and it would adjust just fine. I had Red Devils that would go from one tank into another and within 5 seconds they were puffing up at the existing fish in attempts to establish their dominance in this new environment.. I say all this to say that I think it's possible that a person can make their fish "soft". Most of my fish have been very hardy and they are survivors cause they can adapt. I had a 6 inch piranha live in a fish bowl with no air source for 3 days before I gave him away(I was 13 years old at the time, so forgive me). But my point again, he adapted and he survived, because he was used to me moving him around without "babying" him, putting him in a bag of water for 15 minutes to get the temperature adjusted, etc....

And I've heard alot of the horror stories about goldfish and feeders in general,but if this man was able to successfully raise a fish and keep it alive for 23 years, then he must be doing something right...

I've always heard "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".. I would almost be scared for him to start doing the things that alot of others do. His fish is now used to the way things have been done for the last 23 years, so to start regular water changes and stop feeding it feeders could lead to an unneccessary demise... It might be safer to keep with your existing water routine, and you could add a few more foods into your feeding regimen, but don't take the feeders out completely.

So anyway,

YOU GET A PAT ON THE BACK FROM ME DAVE!!!!!


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## boontje (Mar 27, 2005)

Piranhas and Cichlids said:


> I have a few questions/comments:
> 
> 1. Is there proof that regular water changes are vital to a fishes growth?? Is this the case for all tropical fish or just piranha? I ask because I have limited piranha experience, but have had cichlids for 20+ years and I rarely do water changes either. I just remove excess food and do regular filter changes, and add new water as necessary(since some evaporates).. I have raised Managuense pairs, a FlowerHorn pair, Oscars, Black-Belt Cichlids, Red Devils, etc. In particular, I kept one baby from my FlowerHorn fry that were born in Nov. 2004. Well I never did regular water changes and I raised that fish from an egg to 11" inches(in a 55gallon) before I traded it in a few weeks ago(as it was just too big for the tanks I have and I felt it was time to let it go).... So I'm questioning the proof that regular water changes are vital to a fishes growth, since that has not been my experience.....
> 
> ...


The fact that somebody is able to have a fish survive and even grow (relatively) large without cycling a tank, and without regular water changes and on a strictly goldfish diet, doesn't mean that water changes, tank cycling and a good varried diet are not a good idea. Obviously hardy fishes will be able to survive and even grow big under less than optimal conditions. But the question to ask is, if you had always cycled tanks, and done water changes, would the fish have grow larger? Live longer?

I have no idea if there is any scientific research done on this. But just by reading many topics on this forum (and fish forums in general) it gives a very good indication that people who have perfect water conditions for their fish accomplish better growth, longer lifespan, etc.


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