# How can I tell that I'm buying a Venezuela rhom?



## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey all,
I found a nice rhom that I'm going to buy. I'm buying him from Primitive Jungle aka jungle boogie. There telling me he's a Venezuela black piranha. They have a thread that show's the same rhom. But, there calling it a 4" inch xingu rhom. I've had a 6" xingu rhom and they don't look alike. My xingu had a humeral spot, this one does not. 
I know he is still a somewhat juvi. 6 inch rhom
So, here is a pic of it. And, video's of it,thank's to jungle boogie! 
1.If you guy's don't think he is a venezuela black piranha? Why? #7
2.Then what do you think he is?
3. what are the basic characteristic's of a vinny rhom?
4.For you who have or do own one,may I have a pic to compare?
5. I've been reading at OPEFE. I don't think he is a comp. Some, get confused with rhom's and comp's. He has characteristic's of a rhom,but which one for sure?
6. No , I don't think he is a sanchezi.
7. What trait's does he have,that make's you think he is not a vinny?
8. I would like to know what kind of p he is. If he turn's out to be something else, then I'm fine with it,too. He look's great and seem's to be aggressive. Don't worry when I get him,he will not be eating anything from the carp family.
TY for looking and any advice you can give. Gerrad








ps if your not able to watch the video's, then go to JB section click on "video aggressive piranha 1 and 2"


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

I didnt really read the whole post but i will say that most rhoms fall into the category of a rhom is a rhom. xingu's and diamonds have some visible difference but other then that a rhom is a rhom it is just a plus if you know the collection point. and yes that looks like a rhom to me. if you like the fish collection point shouldnt matter to much. especially if its a regular rhom. just consider it a bonus if you have a idea of where it came from.


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

Im not a rhom specialist hopefully someone like Blue Flame will chime in, but if it were me id wait and try to get one a little bigger. You'll have better luck in getting one that has a attitude. IMO

As Fan makes a great point !


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey were you guy's able to see the video's here? Or,did u have to go to the JB section? I really like him and only time will tell, if he has a bad attitude or not. I don't think they have a bigger one of these. They do have 2 more of the same size. One,would be a good second choice and the other. Well, once it is cured of the black ich it has,then it would fine too.



AS fan said:


> I didnt really read the whole post but i will say that most rhoms fall into the category of a rhom is a rhom. xingu's and diamonds have some visible difference but other then that a rhom is a rhom it is just a plus if you know the collection point. and yes that looks like a rhom to me. if you like the fish collection point shouldnt matter to much. especially if its a regular rhom. just consider it a bonus if you have a idea of where it came from.


What's a regular rhom to you?


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

any non diamond rhom and any non xingu rhom. thats off the top of my head because they both have characteristics that distinguish them but one rhom can be from venezuela and one from brazil but they are basically the same fish just caught in a different place. each looks a little different but its still the same fish. either way as long as you like the fish you see it doesnt matter where it came from. the collection point is just a plus.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

AS fan said:


> any non diamond rhom and any non xingu rhom. thats off the top of my head because they both have characteristics that distinguish them but one rhom can be from venezuela and one from brazil but they are basically the same fish just caught in a different place. each looks a little different but its still the same fish. either way as long as you like the fish you see it doesnt matter where it came from. the collection point is just a plus.


Yea, it doesn't really matter to me where it come's from. As, long as it's a rhombeus then I'm happy. But, it would be nice to know where it came from. So, that I can say I have a such and such rhom.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

If you like him, buy him.

the collection "title" wears off after a while anyway. 5 years down the road, if you still have him, he'll be a black piranha from south america. 
Individual fish is what does it for me. Where a rhom was collected, isn't important at all.


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## philbert (Mar 8, 2007)

a rhom is a rhom is a rhom. the only differentiation between them is thier collection point. there are a complex species meaning they take lots of forms.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

Tango374 said:


> If you like him, buy him.
> 
> the collection "title" wears off after a while anyway. 5 years down the road, if you still have him, he'll be a black piranha from south america.
> Individual fish is what does it for me. Where a rhom was collected, isn't important at all.


i completely 2nd that.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

yea, I'll post better pic's when I get him. It would be awesome if he really is a venezuela black piranha. I've seen pic's on here, that member's say this is my vinny rhom. Some, of them had humeral spot's,some didn't , who know's.
As, long as he is a black piranha then cool!


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

Found pic's of the rhom I want, before I wanted him,lol. TY JB for the pic's.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

Check out the last pic that I have shown (rhom is at a 45 degree angle). Look at the exterior of the lower lip. Is that a chimple forming? These pic's are earlier pic's of the rhom,when JB must of just received them. You can tell,because the fin's are raggety but now, they are almost healed up,completely.
In the pic above the 45 degree looking rhom,you can't see anything on lower lip and the first pic that I've shown. You can't see much or anything, unless you were trying to look for it. I don't see any extension from the lower lip, but then again the rhom is facing sideway's.
I'm having second thought's about getting him,because of what look's like a chimple blemish. Rhom's get them because they smack there face against the glass. Will the chimple go away? How do you get rid of a big chimple?
If, I did buy him. I would make sure that he doesn't have any reason for banging his face into the tank glass. Maybe, it's not really that bad looking up close. 
I know it's dumb to not want to buy a rhom,just because he has or may have a chimple. I would like a almost perfect look p,I know there is no such thing as perfect,thou.


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## Tensa (Jul 28, 2008)

your P will look like the first picture. it doesnt have a chimple either. what you see is a result of shipping and heals. thats the short version. my comment is buy the fish if you want it. you are thinking this over way to much on the fish level. the fish looks perfect because it has had time to heal. dont worry about a chimple in this case or collection point. just enjoy the fish.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

If you're going to commit to keeping a rhom, you should expect it to have a chimple. Very common on these fish when kept in captivity. Not everyone's have them, but alot do. Or have had them in the past.

A tank that is too small is the number one reason for a chimple.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

TY tango and as fan. I know, I'm just going to buy him.
But, I made a mistake. A friend (pfury member) pointed out, that the rhom's in those 2 pic's,are not the same fish.
If, you look closely you can see the difference's. JB has more than one of these. This is what I see that make's them different.
1.anal fin
2.bite mark pattern on the rear tail
3.the small fin on the back,between the dorsal fin and rear tail
4. There is a 1/4 inch line on the upper back of the top pic ,fish. The chimple rhom,doesn't have it. It's located just below the beggining of the dorsal fin,by the head.
5.spot's
6.gill plate
I asked for a close up pic of my vinny anyway just to make sure.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

I didn't think they were the same fish based on the fin damage and spot pattern. 
Both of them are still good looking fish none the less.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

Now, I have to find out. If, the vinny will eat other thing's. Like non living thing's. My plan is to feed him, talapia,king prawn's,smelt, if I can find it and maybe some silverside's.


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## Trigga (Jul 1, 2006)

Doesn't look like a xingu for sure


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

As AS said, it doesn't really matter where they are collected. I don't buy my rhoms like that anyway. I buy what catches my eye, and the fishes that stand out the most to me. I listened to someone one time(I won't mention any names), that the fish I was buying was a unique highback black diamond rhom, and it turned out to be a compressus. Another rhom I bought was sold to me as a Blue Diamond(I won't mention any names again), the color started fading, and now it looks like a black diamond(I'm thinking there was a little "hocus pocus" going on with that sale too). Really, As long as the fish is in good health, has a good personality, and eventually eats after it settles in, enjoy the fish no matter where it's from.

Oh, and just because it finger chases in one tank and setting, doesn't mean it will act like the same fish in your tank. My peru rhom was a nasty bastard at the pet store, but now that it's in a big tank all to itself, it doesn't finger chase anymore, but it does swim back and forth non-stop. The big Blue diamond I have now looked like a black diamond at the guy's house I bought it from, but in my tank, it's surely a beautiful Blue Diamond, and it's now the meanest rhom I own(BTW, he's doing great TBP, new pics soon).

So, if you want my advice, just make sure it's a rhom, and not a sanchezi, Minor blemishes will heal completely in a few months, and just enjoy the fish. Keep us updated!

Blue


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

yea, thank's blue for the comment. I do like the fish,alot. I can't find anything on the web,or much should I say about vinny rhom's. I guess they have a high back,red eye's etc. I'm not sure the rhom I want, is a vinny. If he is a black p, I'm good. I'm sure he is.


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Here's some pics of some compressus at different sizes, just in case it helps.


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

stunning as always Blue


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

what are u trying to say blue? with those pic's?
The first 2 pic's, I can easily tell,that it's a comp. My fish is not. Reason your's is. IMO. Comp's have the high back, red on lower gill plate. But, the main way to tell. Is, because of the dot pattern. I've done some research at opefe. Comp's have lot's of small dot's on the lower half of there body,while the upper half. Has elongated dot's that go vertical. They usually have a red anal fin.
My fish even at a somewhat juvi stage. Has none of those trait's. Except red on gill's. Nice comp you have,thou.


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Gerrad said:


> what are u trying to say blue? with those pic's?
> The first 2 pic's, I can easily tell,that it's a comp. My fish is not. Reason your's is. IMO. Comp's have the high back, red on lower gill plate. But, the main way to tell. Is, because of the dot pattern. I've done some research at opefe. Comp's have lot's of small dot's on the lower half of there body,while the upper half. Has elongated dot's that go vertical. They usually have a red anal fin.
> My fish even at a somewhat juvi stage. Has none of those trait's. Except red on gill's. Nice comp you have,thou.


I just posted some pics of a few compressus I used to have, so you could compare them to yours, since you had some doubt in your 1st post is all.


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

> what are u trying to say blue?


I know its a Comp









Blue as in Blue Flame, His pictures are always stunning he must take pictures for a living,


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Ba20 said:


> > what are u trying to say blue?
> 
> 
> I know its a Comp
> ...


LOL...nope, I play with industrial play doh during the day, and wrench on cars at night. I just have a nice camera to fake the position!


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

BTW, If your wondering how they change in appearance over time, here's a few pics of my peru rhom now, and less than a year ago.


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## Ba20 (Jan 29, 2003)

i like him before


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

hey blue f,
Nice peru rhom. He has some trait's, that are similar to the vinny. Like, the white belly,yellow anal fin. Not, much red on the gill plate thou.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Part of the reason collection point isn't really a big deal is for the most part, most of the varieties of rhombeus collected in different areas end up looking the same (or very similar) as they mature. 
Some traits, like a vinnie's high-backed, and sometimes almost concaved head-shape before the dorsum isn't shared by all rhoms collected in the same area. If thats the reason you wish to own one.

Guyana rhoms are supposed to share a highly reddish or orange gill plate coloration. Mine is and always has been dull at best. I've even seen some Guyana's that lack it completely on mainly specimens over 10" which points in the direction more, as they age, most look more and more the same.

Sry, I kind of lost my train of thought where I wanted to go with this post.


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Tango374 said:


> Guyana rhoms are supposed to share a highly reddish or orange gill plate coloration. Mine is and always has been dull at best. I've even seen some Guyana's that lack it completely on mainly specimens over 10" which points in the direction more, as they age, most look more and more the same.


Yeah, my peru rhom lacks a lot of the coloring they have as juveniles, just like you stated, but my "hocus pocus" diamond rhom, is actually getting more color on it's gills and throat like a Guyana. Kinda weird!

I say hocus pocus because when I bought the fish, it was a very nice blue diamond rhom that had some torn fins, and was kinda beat up. Soon after I brought it home, the fish started losing the blue hue to the scales. I suspect, the fish was treated with a very high dosage of Methylene blue, it stained the scales, and the LFS decided to make a few extra bucks selling it as a blue diamond. The fish now looks like a black diamond with a lot of red on the throat, like a Guyana. So IDK, but it's still a sweet looking rhom.


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## Blue Flame (Jan 16, 2006)

Here's some pics, tell me what you think. Even the fins have lost the blue hue, and are now black in color. The lighting, and gravel have not been changed, and I wouldn't think diet would do it, unless it was really extreme. Like everyone knows too, the pics don't tell the story as well as seeing it in person.

Before:









and now:


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

found a older pic from AS. When they use to sell vinny's,I guess. Never knew this. 
I see similar , red/orange on gill plate,but more on the AS pic. Mine doesn't have that much slope on the head, but maybe with time,the slope will be more distinct. Hard to compare dot pattern.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

here is another view of the vinny.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

Here's a pic I found of a MONSTER VINNY! TY to piranhawarehouse.co.uk


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

I received some updated pic's that I had asked for. TY Primitive J. The pic's are really nice. There is only 2 thing's I don't like about this rhom. One, I don't know for sure if it is a Vinny. Second, I don't like how even at this early stage, he seem's to have a chimple on the tip of his chin. I know it's common for rhom's to have them. But, I don't want to start off right away with chimple rhom. IF, he didn't have it and say I had him for a yr or so and he formed a chimple. I would be fine with it, because it's bound to happen.

click on the pic so that you can see up close. You'll see what I'm seeing a whole lot better.


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Alright. Visually its impossible to tell if that Rhom came from Venezuela. In most cases its impossible to tell where a fish was collected just by a visual inspection. 
The best thing you or any other potential rhom buyers can go by is what the dealer tells you. Unless you collect the fish yourself, thats the best your going to get.

These fishes holding tanks in the store front are probably going to be comparable to the dimensions of say a 7 to 10 gallon tank. With quarters that small its easy to understand why a chimple or chin rub would be present.

IMO that is a VERY nicely shaped, healthy looking young rhombeus. If I were shopping for one, I wouldn't hesitate buying that one.


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