# How Long Should I Wait?



## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

so i set up my new 90 gallon set up yesterday around this time. when i bought it the gravel from the previous owner was still being soaked in the water. how ever the filter media is all new. just wondering how much longer i should wait for moving my
4x 1" reds in there. should i try putting a convict into it first just to test it? if the convict survives for more than a day then would it be okay? i feed my p's hikari gold cichlid pellets, so i dont think an ammonia spike would be likley? let me know soon thanks!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

If you can transfer the filter over from whatever tank the natts are in now, you can move them right away, just make sure you keep that filter running for a few weeks along with the permanent filters for the 90 gallon.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

heres the problem joe the filter thats in the 55 gallon right now (where the natts are living) is also where my rhom is sharing a tank with a divider, so i cant transfer the filter. So other than that idea should i test it with convicts tonight or no?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

That won't make a difference unless you wanna keep the convicts in there for a few weeks on their own to cycle the tank...

What type of filter is on the 55? Can you transfer some of the media over to the filters on your 90?


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

its a fluval 4+ i could transfer some media, it has 2 sponges and a carbon padd so which should i xfer?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

No bio media? I guess you could use a sponge, but bio media would be better.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

fluval 4 plus' dont have room for bio media, so what should i do transfer both the sponges into there for a week, and move my rbp's right away?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

I didn't even know what that was until I looked it up.... I would probably leave that alone and look into upgrading to something else for your rhom in the future. For now, I would try to track down some established bio media from someone, I'd rather not suggest putting the natts into an uncycled tank.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

Put a new filter onto the 55g. and move the old one to the 90g.

The BB in the substrate will start to seed the new filter for the 55g.
The BB in the old filter will start to seed the substrate for the 90g.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

You could definitely do that if you have the cash for another filter right now, just keep a very close eye on your ammonia levels and feed sparingly for a couple weeks.


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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> You could definitely do that if you have the cash for another filter right now, just keep a very close eye on your ammonia levels and feed sparingly for a couple weeks.












Substrate holds a lot more BB then a lot of people think...


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

ok thanks for the advice guys!


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## bricklr (Aug 14, 2010)

Why can't he rinse his old filter(off the 55)in the new tank water. Squeese it ,swish it around...get a good cloud of BB in the water. I've seen that done before. Just a thought.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

ya man im waiting to buy a used filter from the classifieds moneys tight thats why jhonny's idea wont help me much, if theres any other way it would be better for me,


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Parsa said:


> ya man im waiting to buy a used filter from the classifieds moneys tight thats why jhonny's idea wont help me much, if theres any other way it would be better for me,


You could wait for the 90 gallon to cycle or you could call friends with tanks or LFS in your area to see if they have any established bio media they can spare to get your tank going -- I know a lot of people have gone that route.


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## bricklr (Aug 14, 2010)

IMO... If your gravel is unrinsed from an established tank, I think you'll be OK. Lots of BB in there. Just do the water changes when needed, and don't vack your gravel for a while. IMO... You could spread disease to your new tank if you do get bio media from somebody else. Be careful who you get it from. And definately "test the waters" with your convict first. Good luck.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

bricklr said:


> IMO... If your gravel is unrinsed from an established tank, I think you'll be OK. Lots of BB in there. Just do the water changes when needed, and don't vack your gravel for a while. IMO... You could spread disease to your new tank if you do get bio media from somebody else. Be careful who you get it from. And definately "test the waters" with your convict first. Good luck.


The issue with this approach is he doesn't know how long that gravel was sitting just soaking in a bucket with stagnant water... while that gravel may have had beneficial bacteria, it most likely had plenty of detritus as well. After sitting in stagnant water, there is a good chance that gravel is more of an ammonia source than a source of beneficial bacteria.


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## bricklr (Aug 14, 2010)

JoeDizzleMPLS said:


> IMO... If your gravel is unrinsed from an established tank, I think you'll be OK. Lots of BB in there. Just do the water changes when needed, and don't vack your gravel for a while. IMO... You could spread disease to your new tank if you do get bio media from somebody else. Be careful who you get it from. And definately "test the waters" with your convict first. Good luck.


The issue with this approach is he doesn't know how long that gravel was sitting just soaking in a bucket with stagnant water... while that gravel may have had beneficial bacteria, it most likely had plenty of detritus as well. After sitting in stagnant water, there is a good chance that gravel is more of an ammonia source than a source of beneficial bacteria.
[/quote]

Good point. I assumed the gravel was "fresh" so to speak.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

the gravel was sitting in half water with the filter running on it and they took it apart right before i arrived to receive the tank. anyways i think im just going to move them over tonight but ill test it with convicts first to make sure its okay. thanks


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Do you have a test kit? I'm not really following on the test with convicts part...


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

no i don't have a test kit but i guess i should buy one eh?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

I would get one, especially considering that you are going into this without established filtration, putting convicts in won't really "test" the water. If you put your natts in there and ammonia starts to build up, it might be a couple days before you notice that anything is wrong.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

ohh i have a great idea! I forgot i had this friend! I am going to his house he has like a 20 gallon. but all the media he has is a sponge with carbon in the middle is that good? I also have sponges in my fluval 4 plus, what if i squeeze them all in my tank?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Squeezing sponges in your tank will just make your tank dirty... what you need is some established bio media.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)




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## Johnny_Zanni (Nov 8, 2009)

My response was misunderstood...

Take the established filter off your 55g and put it on the 90g with the reds.
Take your filter you just bought and put it on the 55g.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Johnny_Zanni said:


> My response was misunderstood...
> 
> Take the established filter off your 55g and put it on the 90g with the reds.
> Take your filter you just bought and put it on the 55g.


The filter on his 55 is a little internal filter, I don't think it can handle the 90 gallon... I think the best solution here (if you can't find established bio media) would be to keep the natts and rhom in the divided 55 with all your filters running and feed sparingly... after a couple weeks, you should be able to transfer one of the filters and the natts over to the 90 and then you can work on upgrading your filtration on both tanks.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

i put a couple of sponges into my canister, and added my reds in, after testing it with convicts for 7 hours.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Parsa said:


> after testing it with convicts for 7 hours.


Testing for what?


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

anything that could kill my p's other than ammonia spikes or w.e, im gonna be careful on feeding dont worry


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

I do not understand why people take the time to come here, ask questions, and then just ignore the advice.

I would do your homework on the nitrogen cycle and exactly what the bacteria in your filters is doing


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Parsa said:


> anything that could kill my p's other than ammonia spikes or w.e, im gonna be careful on feeding dont worry


 It's not really about killing p's. P's are hardy fish and can survive a cycle. The point is, this whole hobby is based on providing the best possible care for p's and fish in general so having them endure the stresses of even part of a cycle is IMO an easily avoidable situation that goes against the ideals of fish keeping. It's not about them surviving it's about them thriving. Sure a goldfish can live in a bowl but if you seriously want it to thrive i would think you would want to do everything in your power to make it comfortable.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

Okay well I know about stressing them out too. The Ammonia levels were on control and still are under control... They were not stressed at all, except for the first few seconds obviously... I said I added a source of bb and so everything was in check. That's why I added them. I used the convicts just to make sure because I didn't know what was going on with the previous owners so I used a convict to check for that


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

whitney im loosing respect for you real quick... i did what i could in my situation. and i know all about the nitrogen cycle... sometimes the advice that is given is something that just cant happen.. so i had to deal with it the best i could. just deal with it... i respect the advice given but i have to remix it up sometimes to fit my situation.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

Just keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels and make sure you perform water changes immediately if those start showing up on your tests. Obviously it's not recommended to start out a tank the way you did, but as long as you are careful, you shouldn't run into any problems, just make sure you are testing that water at least once a day for now.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

thanks joe i will do that, im doing 20% water changes every 2 days for 2 weeks untill the tank is fully cycled aswell


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Parsa said:


> whitney im loosing respect for you real quick... i did what i could in my situation. and i know all about the nitrogen cycle... sometimes the advice that is given is something that just cant happen.. so i had to deal with it the best i could. just deal with it... i respect the advice given but i have to remix it up sometimes to fit my situation.


You had other options, you just chose to take the easy way out.

I'm sure they will survive but you could have done things differently/properly like leave them in the divided tank until the new one was ready instead rushing things.
Dont feel to bad though alot of people do it.


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

i felt my rhom was being cramped.. and my only other option was to go to the lfs and see if they would give me media, which i highly doubt would. big als is very lame.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

Yeah my local als doesnt give out media either


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## Parsa (Nov 12, 2008)

i hate big als! they're so expensive and the people in the fish room treat us like noobs


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