# Gold Mac Shoal



## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm thinking about starting a Shoal of Gold Mac's. I think it's mac's i'm after not spilo's but correct me if I'm wrong. I hear you can shoal one of these. How successful is it usually? What are some tips to help make it work I.E. hiding places and dim lights. Also how many extra should you over shoot the shoal. Double what your wanting you final out come to be? What size tank should I use for these guys too. I'm sure someone has done this before or at least tried it. I haven't bought anything yet. If it's to much failures I'm not going to try it.


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## Mr. Hannibal (Feb 21, 2003)

I have no real experience on Mac "shoaling" but i guess tank space and water temp is key... i'd get at least a 125g tank...

More info: http://www.opefe.com/maculatus.html


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## BRUNER247 (Jun 2, 2010)

Bigger isn't always better.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

RedBelly11 said:


> I'm thinking about starting a Shoal of Gold Mac's. I think it's mac's i'm after not spilo's but correct me if I'm wrong. I hear you can shoal one of these. How successful is it usually? What are some tips to help make it work I.E. hiding places and dim lights. Also how many extra should you over shoot the shoal. Double what your wanting you final out come to be? What size tank should I use for these guys too. I'm sure someone has done this before or at least tried it. I haven't bought anything yet. If it's to much failures I'm not going to try it.


Depends on the geographical variety you have. Some are solitary others swarm in groups. Juveniles generally group together more for protection from each other and predators. Doesn't matter if its spilopleura ir maculatus. End result can be good or bad.


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## memento (Jun 3, 2009)

I've seen some cohabs going well for a long time (more than a year) but also cohabs that went wrong from day one.
Contact primetime about it, he managed breeding them so must be able to tell you what worked for him.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Well I hear these are easiest to shoal of the Serra's that's why I would like to give it a try. I'll talk to primetime, I know it's taking a big chance and if it's just stupid, then I don't want to try. I want it to work obviously and don't want to try something that fails more times then not. Have you ever done it Frank?? Or know anyone who has done it and it last a long time?


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

What size tank are you planning on trying in?


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

RedBelly11 said:


> Well I hear these are easiest to shoal of the Serra's that's why I would like to give it a try. I'll talk to primetime, I know it's taking a big chance and if it's just stupid, then I don't want to try. I want it to work obviously and don't want to try something that fails more times then not. Have you ever done it Frank?? Or know anyone who has done it and it last a long time?


Yes I have and depends on what you call "a long time". Lower temp helps. But if you have 1 or mire aggressive it can quickly turn bad. Frequent water changes help.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

So is this another one of those cohabs that usually ends in a lot of dead or beaten up fish 99% of the time? If that's the case I would rather not waste my money or the fishes life. I was looking to do this in a 100g. or a 120long. I have the opp. at either style tank right now. But again if this has been tried to not work I would rather take someone elses loss to my gain and just not try it. I seen they are the best Serra to shoal and thought I was ask about it. Shark Aquarium has a deal 5 Gold mac's for 60. I was going to do 10 of them


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

A friend of mine named Frank Glennon at a big public aquarium in SF kept several 100 piranhas. Eventually devoured by the huge catfish and arapaima in there.


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## Piranha-Freak101 (Dec 8, 2010)

its always 50/50 chance with macs, id say big tank, frequent water changes low temps and get them subadult juveniles tend to be very canabalistic


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't think I'm going to do it.


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## banshee42096 (Apr 29, 2010)

i started with 13 ended up with 3 and added one more for a total of 4 in a 180 they get along great temp stays 75-76 all the time if i got these before i got my reds i would have never got the reds i love the way they approah the tank when you enter the room and dont get skittish.will eat all day long in front of you or family.i have red eyed tetras and giant danios with them thats the only thing i have been able to put in there without them killing them instanly.good luck if you do do it expect at least half of what you buy to die.
fred


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

My red's come up to the tank anytime I walk into the room and they will eat no matter who is around just about every time I feed them. I'm very happy with my pygo shoal. Best tank I have ever had and they are very active fish! I don't know if I'm going to take the chance on burning up 60 bucks for some fish to just eat them lol. I'm sure it is a super cool shoal I just don't know if it's worth the risk.


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## Red Sox Fanatic (Jun 13, 2011)

Just go with what you think is right.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

I would ask George from SA whether they are from Brazil...he turned me onto the idea that they cohab better than ones from Argentina. I can't say that what he said is certain, but I had 7 of them in a 125g for a decent amount of time with no losses. I sold them quickly though after a short time of them starting to breed, lol, cuz i had 3 breeding pairs all within a few days of each other and wanted them to go to someone who was really into raising fry for a long period. Also, i think brazil macs (spilos to shark aquarium) stay smaller than the other variety...that though I have to defer to GG, as he is the one that i heard say that. Maybe it also gets into what frank just said about different geographical variety...def. something that needs to be studied, looked at, more.

I would also get ones at least 4-5". If you can't afford that, then i would separate them, however many you get, until they are that size. Trust me, small ones are f'ing brutal to each other. As soon as my several hundred fry got to be like 3/4", the cannibalism was outrageous, and I was pulling out a good 10+ dead ones per day...or even worse they would be missing one or both of their eyes.

Like i am finding with my geryi, individual behavior can vary with adults. you can easily get a few that are too aggressive and territorial to be kept in a group. Even just today i took the most dominant of my geryi out and into a tank solo. he wanted 1/2+ of my 125g and was bullying the others too much.

As far as tank size, a 100g or 125g is nice, but i think you can even get away with a 75g for a while, maybe life, for brazil macs because i don't think they will go past 7"-8". i've seen pics of 12"+ macs but i think those are from argentina like i said...here again i am not certain.

I used to think overstocking gold piranhas might be fun to try...like 12-15 adults in a 125g...but i have to say i don't like that approach any more...it's too risky to have them bullying each other. So, i think i would maybe go for like 5 for a 75g, and 7-8 for a 100g-125g. a nice thing is they are afforded a nice amount of room in those bigger tanks.

Lastly i would use heavy decor, fake plants and (fake) rock, so each one can have a territory and run into each other less. if you setup a tank well enough, you can easily do that.

Good luck if you try it, i will write more if i think of anything else.


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

primetime3wise said:


> I would ask George from SA whether they are from Brazil...he turned me onto the idea that they cohab better than ones from Argentina. I can't say that what he said is certain, but I had 7 of them in a 125g for a decent amount of time with no losses. I sold them quickly though after a short time of them starting to breed, lol, cuz i had 3 breeding pairs all within a few days of each other and wanted them to go to someone who was really into raising fry for a long period. Also, i think brazil macs (spilos to shark aquarium) stay smaller than the other variety...that though I have to defer to GG, as he is the one that i heard say that. Maybe it also gets into what frank just said about different geographical variety...def. something that needs to be studied, looked at, more.
> 
> I would also get ones at least 4-5". If you can't afford that, then i would separate them, however many you get, until they are that size. Trust me, small ones are f'ing brutal to each other. As soon as my several hundred fry got to be like 3/4", the cannibalism was outrageous, and I was pulling out a good 10+ dead ones per day...or even worse they would be missing one or both of their eyes.
> 
> ...


George is right. In some areas they do group. Just depends on river and circumstances. Argentina species are more solitary. It just depends.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

OK so the Brazil species is called a spilo? So I need to look into gold Spilo's not gold mac's? If I wanted to end up with 5 total should I start out with double that to count for any cannibalism? I'm still debaiting if this is worth the try. I love my pygo shoal, how they fight for food and swim around a lot. Very active. Why do you say Fake rocks? Could they hurt themselves with real rocks? I can only imagine how active a serra shoal would be! lol. Like I said I'm worried the little guys would pick each other off lol I don't have a spare tank to move an aggressive one too. Maybe I should buy a 40 breeder just in case I need to move one.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

The Brazil and Argentina fish are both S. maculatus....they are just different varaints. The Brazilian fish stay smaller and do better in groups.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

sounds good, then the OP may have a better chance of a group lasting than others have had in the past...because, well i have seems numerous instances of a group of these fish not lasting long at all, or just partial success.

Redbelly, whatever tank size you go to, assuming it to be at least a 75g, get adults or close to it. I think that is the #1 mistake people make in trying to cohab these fish. Or like i said use dividers until they get to be at least, a minimum of 4". Don't think you can feed them 3-4x/day to avoid cannibalism in fry or juvis. at that small of a size they can really do damage to each other.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

RedBelly11 said:


> OK so the Brazil species is called a spilo? So I need to look into gold Spilo's not gold mac's? If I wanted to end up with 5 total should I start out with double that to count for any cannibalism? I'm still debaiting if this is worth the try. I love my pygo shoal, how they fight for food and swim around a lot. Very active. Why do you say Fake rocks? Could they hurt themselves with real rocks? I can only imagine how active a serra shoal would be! lol. Like I said I'm worried the little guys would pick each other off lol I don't have a spare tank to move an aggressive one too. Maybe I should buy a 40 breeder just in case I need to move one.


GG is right, they are all really s. maculatus...george @ SA just refers to them on his list as gold spilos...which is outdated. and when you hear "gold piranha", they are talking about s. maculatus the vast majority of the time.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Yeah, I already see that feeding has nothing to do with cannibalism, they aren't doing it because they are hungry. So I'm better off with adult mac's over the spilo correct? That changed my plans because the ones he has posted where 60 for 5 around the 2" mark. Sounds like trouble for me. I think I'm going to hold off on this. If it could go wrong, it probably will with me ha ha and I don't know if I want to spend 500 on a shoal of mac's right now.


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

RedBelly11 said:


> Yeah, I already see that feeding has nothing to do with cannibalism, they aren't doing it because they are hungry. So I'm better off with adult mac's over the spilo correct? That changed my plans because the ones he has posted where 60 for 5 around the 2" mark. Sounds like trouble for me. I think I'm going to hold off on this. If it could go wrong, it probably will with me ha ha and I don't know if I want to spend 500 on a shoal of mac's right now.


just get some dividers if you want to try it. i certainly can see how you can have some reservations though.

as far as the "ruby red spilos" i'm not aware of anyone trying to cohab them right now, but there could be someone trying it.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Sorry, I just seen your post right now. Didn't read that before I posted my last one. I have a 100g I want to put them in. This is basically a short 125g. I can't find a divider wide enough for the tank. I may have to make one. So I guess each fish needs to be alone. So my 72" tank needs to house 5 fish. That means each section will be about 14" wide. Is this going to be ok for them for a few months until they reach the 4" mark


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## Smoke (Sep 8, 2010)

primetime3wise said:


> Yeah, I already see that feeding has nothing to do with cannibalism, they aren't doing it because they are hungry. So I'm better off with adult mac's over the spilo correct? That changed my plans because the ones he has posted where 60 for 5 around the 2" mark. Sounds like trouble for me. I think I'm going to hold off on this. If it could go wrong, it probably will with me ha ha and I don't know if I want to spend 500 on a shoal of mac's right now.


just get some dividers if you want to try it. i certainly can see how you can have some reservations though.

as far as the "ruby red spilos" i'm not aware of anyone trying to cohab them right now, but there could be someone trying it.
[/quote]

I think FishermanCanada gave it a shot... but I could be mistaken...


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

Primetime is pretty good with fish. I think I could make do on his advise and get this to work, although the more sides of the spectrum I see the better off I am. Maybe he will chim in on this, Doesn't fishermencanada sale fish?


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## primetime3wise (Sep 28, 2003)

RedBelly11 said:


> Sorry, I just seen your post right now. Didn't read that before I posted my last one. I have a 100g I want to put them in. This is basically a short 125g. I can't find a divider wide enough for the tank. I may have to make one. So I guess each fish needs to be alone. So my 72" tank needs to house 5 fish. That means each section will be about 14" wide. Is this going to be ok for them for a few months until they reach the 4" mark


it's fine. it's obviously far from ideal but i think it would be fine even for maybe 1 or 2 more in a 100g. you would need several dividers







try to be patient but i think they can get to 4-5" each fairly quickly. i'd bet many more problems if you throw a bunch of 2" macs together.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

OK I may consider doing that


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## Da' Manster! (Sep 1, 2009)

Also If I'm not mistaken, former moderator and member Winkyee (Pete) had a nice, kick ass shoal of Gold Macs and did pretty well with them...Haven't seen him around much though and I don't know if he even posts anymore or not but that is the guy that I would definitely ask and PM....Also, member Jmax...He's also had a shoal of Gold Macs as well...and of'course he also hasn't been around lately so I'm not sure what the deal is...To the OP, I would most certainly shoot these two guys a PM!...


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

No one is saying its impossible for the gold maculatus to group together. As I've known folks that breed these for years. Just that conditions have to be right and you acknowledge that deaths and injuries do and can occur. Ultimately its your decision, but don't go into it blindly.


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

What are some definate ways to tell a gold mac from a gold spilo. My LFS has some in but just labeled gold Piranha. I tried to get pic's of these guys but couldn't get one that would have been worth uploading because it wouldn't have been good enough to get an ID on the fish. Either way the fish is about 4.5-5" an they only want 19.99 for them


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## hastatus (Jan 16, 2003)

RedBelly11 said:


> What are some definate ways to tell a gold mac from a gold spilo. My LFS has some in but just labeled gold Piranha. I tried to get pic's of these guys but couldn't get one that would have been worth uploading because it wouldn't have been good enough to get an ID on the fish. Either way the fish is about 4.5-5" an they only want 19.99 for them


Re-read this thread.


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## FishermanCanada (Feb 12, 2007)

*Like smoke said i tried it with both ruby reds spilos and gold macs which i got from winkeye. The 10 macs i had in a 75 gallon with no problems for 6 months.It was the nicest shoal i have ever owned. After the 6 months i downgraded due to the extreme maintenance. A few members on here have those macs cohabbing together as i write this.
Now ruby red spilos are a different story, they are mean as hell, i did have some success cohabbing them but overall they are a solo type fish. If i kept them together over time i would have lost some. Here is my links regarding those species. Macs seem to be the easiest of the serra family to cohab.

Ruby Red Spilo Diary.*
click here for Ruby Red Spilo link

































*Mac Cohab Diary*
*it seems the link is lost, i cant find it. It was huge too.*





*this is all i could find... good luck*


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## jerzeytib (Jul 5, 2011)

I purchased a gold (2.5in) from SA last week and the fish is very active and not skittish at all. But had to be housed in a tank alone because it was terrorizing my other p's badly.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

honestly why get more fish while your still having water issues?


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I only have issues with the 55g. All of my other tanks have been perfect. I don't know what the deal is with that tank. It's the only one I use the cascade canister filter on too. I'm thinking this could be whats going on. My fluval and marineland canister filters gave me no problems. I cycled all my tanks the same way and everything. I want to get rid of the 55 because it's not a good footprint tank for most P's and keeps giving me hell.


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## bob351 (Oct 23, 2005)

alright just checking







. GL with the mac shoal if you decide to get a few and don't forget to post some pics


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## MFNRyan (Mar 27, 2011)

I already decided against it. Fish cost to much to risk them gettin eaten, they are super messy shoal and I don't think I'm experianced enough to try this yet. Also if I do it later down the road I want fewer tanks to have to watch over so I can take good care of the shoal since it seems will require a lot of attention. So now I have a 125g cycling that's empty minus the substrate and don't know what fish to put in it. I was thinking about putting the manny in there cause he really likes to swim a lot. Then thought about a Piraya, but I don't think those are very active solo and also wouldn't take long to outgrow that tank. Right now I'm thinking about getting a Rhom around the 10" mark. This guy will grow slow and I hear covers a lot of tank has a cool personality in most cases. So I'm not sure. OR!!! I could co hab all my smaller tanks in this one, Gibbus, Manny, Sanchezi, and maybe two of my smaller red's from my big tank!







YEAH that's a good idea! I hear people wanting to try this all the time bah ha ha ha ha ha ha

JK by the way


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