# What Protection Do We Have?



## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

What protection do we have from fish and game/ police on this board? 99% of the members are piranha owners or owners of some illegal fish, not to mention mass sellers and member sellers. Minimum for California prosection is $1000 fine and a Class C Misdemeanor (if you dont know how bad a misdemeanor is, just know you wont be a millionaire easily if you get one).

I love these boards and my hobby, but im currently studying to be a surgeon... Frankly this isnt worth my future and $1000 to me.

im sure we aren't protected... anyone have anything to say? and dont think for a second no police or people of the sort are aware of this site.

Sorry for posting this, but i only think its fair so one day we aren't all searched and seized... can you imagine this title in the lounge forum :

POLICE ARE BUSTING THE SITE, WARRANTS ARE OUT FOR YOUR FISH/YOU, DO SOMETHING.

It could happen.


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## killfishygo (Jan 13, 2004)

i've always wondered about that too, someone help...


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

This site and it's Moderators *NEVER* promoted illegal fish keeping and therefore this site is *NOT* responsible for members having fish in "illegal" states.
Eventhought i live far away and don't have this law-limitation i have to say that everyone is responsible for his acts and the most important is that everybody here is anonymous and the only thing for id him is a "fake" nickname and and IP Address in the logfile of the webserver.

Just my thoughts......

(Mods can correct me if wrong please)


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## asian_redtail_catfish (Sep 25, 2003)

I live in California and a couple LFS sell piranhas, mostly baby red bellies. A month ago one LFS was selling red snakeheads. Those stores are more vunerable for police to go to since they are the dealers and it is more of a catch. Those stores are risking their livlihood also.


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## upt1me (Jun 26, 2003)

Kreth 10RBP said:


> What protection do we have from fish and game/ police on this board? 99% of the members are piranha owners or owners of some illegal fish, not to mention mass sellers and member sellers. Minimum for California prosection is $1000 fine and a Class C Misdemeanor (if you dont know how bad a misdemeanor is, just know you wont be a millionaire easily if you get one).
> 
> I love these boards and my hobby, but im currently studying to be a surgeon... Frankly this isnt worth my future and $1000 to me.
> 
> ...


 Well then maybe you should stick to a pet such as a ferret, oh wait those are illegal also in California.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

upt1me said:


> Kreth 10RBP said:
> 
> 
> > What protection do we have from fish and game/ police on this board? 99% of the members are piranha owners or owners of some illegal fish, not to mention mass sellers and member sellers. Minimum for California prosection is $1000 fine and a Class C Misdemeanor (if you dont know how bad a misdemeanor is, just know you wont be a millionaire easily if you get one).
> ...


 are you dissapointed with california? or just up too late? im confused as to why you posted that...


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

First things first, you do *NOT* have to disclose your location. It is soley up to you let the people you speak to know that information. Therefore, as long as you keep your location on the down-low and dont make public announcements such as this one that will call out all the illegal piranha keepers, then all will be good. Sofar, Ive yet to hear about a member getting busted from the F&G.

All in all...it is soley up to you on how much F&G will know about you as well as any other member.

So stop staying awake worrying about F&G and go get some sleep.


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## kopid_03 (Mar 3, 2004)

why does california have a problem with p's?


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

as said above...dont say where you live!

Its not upto the site and moderators to protect you, its up to you to protect yourself!

If you were doing something else illegal like selling drugs your not going to come on the net and post your location, so dont be stupid enough to do it in this case!


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## fiaman101 (Feb 22, 2004)

Thats whats sweet about mn. they dont give a sh*t about piranhas


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

yeah, why does californa have problems with piranhas, its kinda cold there for them to even survive?

if you dont want to live in cali then come over to maryland


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

sweet lu said:


> yeah, why does californa have problems with piranhas, its kinda cold there for them to even survive?


 Lu - I asked the same question about a year ago to our LFS to see what his answer was.

I was told that it is illegal for certain states to keep piranha as pets due to the increased chance that if they are released into the waterways by a person who does not want it anymore, they might live.

Not sure how much of this is bull crap or not, but that is what I was told.

Furthermore...I agree with what was said earlier. This site does not condone breaking laws for the sake of keeping a specific species of fish. IF you choose to do this, then you are taking the risk on yourself.

IF you don't want to keep them and risk the fine...then don't keep them. Get a goldfish....

Jeffrey


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## AzNP (May 21, 2003)

99% ??? get ur facts straight atleast

police r busting this site????? ahhhhhh















wut for??? for loving Ps??? screw that


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

please refrain from making direct attacks on me, thanks.

Just because we dont disclose our information, doesn't mean they cant contact our ISP's by our IP addresses and find out where we live. If i was a fed, and this was my job, id target all the big heads, get their home locations and evidence of online posting etc, then get warrants for their arrest, set a date and suck them up. We wouldn't know what hit us, lets find someone who knows how to scramble ips or someting of the sort...

Can anyone dig up the actual printed law that says Pygos and Serras are illegal? i saw the flaw in someone elses post and i might be able to slide a pygo shoal into cali leagally...


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

need to close and delete this thread before you give em any ideals :laugh:

and yea i think they are illegal in most southern state cause they would be

able to live through winter and breed then all hell would break lose in the rivers

and lakes


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Kreth 10RBP said:


> please refrain from making direct attacks on me, thanks.
> 
> Just because we dont disclose our information, doesn't mean they cant contact our ISP's by our IP addresses and find out where we live. If i was a fed, and this was my job, id target all the big heads, get their home locations and evidence of online posting etc, then get warrants for their arrest, set a date and suck them up. We wouldn't know what hit us, lets find someone who knows how to scramble ips or someting of the sort...
> 
> Can anyone dig up the actual printed law that says Pygos and Serras are illegal? i saw the flaw in someone elses post and i might be able to slide a pygo shoal into cali leagally...


 why is it upto the board to protect your IP addresses, shouldnt you take these measures if you really think that they will go to those lengths just to catch you?

Also, do you not think that they could get a court order for a list of IP's from P-Fury if they wanted?! So best if you did it yourself anyway!


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

wouldnt it be an invasion of privacy if they got your ip and issued a warrant

for your ass theres got to be a reason why they havent done it allready

your ip has to keep your account info private dont they


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

the f&g dept. cant get you if they don't know who you are. the only way they could find out is if you give out your address, so don't do it.

also you should change your location if your so worried, make it newhampshire or something or leave it blank.

your original question is what protection do you have, the same protection you get from a plumer , or friend coming in your house and telling on you because you have piranha's. there is no protection, so you have to be smart about you actions.


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

mr.freez said:


> wouldnt it be an invasion of privacy if they got your ip and issued a warrant
> 
> for your ass theres got to be a reason why they havent done it allready
> 
> your ip has to keep your account info private dont they


 not that I know of, they can use it to find you, and therefore your P's!

All ISP's based in the US will give your details out f they receive a court order asking them to do so. Its only ones in eastern Europe, and those kind of places that wont do normally!


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## amoor33 (Jan 21, 2004)

They actually have alot more better stuff to foucs on in cali such as homicides rather than fish...chill out people....


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## amoor33 (Jan 21, 2004)

plus wouldve happened by now....


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

amoor33 said:


> They actually have alot more better stuff to foucs on in cali such as homicides rather than fish...chill out people....


 this is why they have a sperate department for this

they got guys on the hardcore sh*t and the f&g can focus on bustin people with

illegal animals


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

LET ME MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR- YOU ARE NOT SAFE

Im not doing this to scare you, im not doing this to prove a point, im doing this to avoid the worst, losing my future, fish and $1000 minimum is a price no one can afford. I want to protect myself, as well as my friends and this community.

Does anyone have 1337 Haxo4 skills and knows a trainer program for scrambling ips? do they work?

The reason im worried is this: My uncle was involved with a tree/plant thief who was robbing nurserys and then turning around and selling the plants dirt cheap to shady construction companys/landscapers. it took the investigator 8 years to finalize the charges and get warrants for their arrest. sure would suck to be jailed in 8 years for some fun i had as a kid.

dont come down on me, im only trying to help...


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## CraigStables (Oct 5, 2003)

Kreth 10RBP said:


> LET ME MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR- YOU ARE NOT SAFE
> 
> Im not doing this to scare you, im not doing this to prove a point, im doing this to avoid the worst, losing my future, fish and $1000 minimum is a price no one can afford. I want to protect myself, as well as my friends and this community.
> 
> ...


 Im not upto scratch with US law, but Im almost sure this is only a mistominer (sp?) so you wouldnt end up in jail! At worst your fish would be killed and you would be fined!

Plus Im not worried as live in the UK where it is legal!

If I were you I would chill out, you've already made it very clear its not legal to have P's where you live and you have some, you should lay low and not draw attention to yourself like you just have!


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

Class C misdemeanor. Try getting your masters or doctorates with that on your record.

you wont, because you cant get into schools of higher learning.

Someone has to know something about the legalitys and what we can do to protect ourselves better?

Dont tell me i have to buy a pacu and super glue some of grannys sharp dentures in his mouth, then call him my rhom









... btw, just because we are the responsible piranha/fish sellers / owners, doesn't mean we aren't influencing/selling to the ignorant and stupid soon to be consumers.

If anything, were the Top of the hit list, we tell people how to keep them alive, breed and where to buy them.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

if you own illegal fish it is your choice to do so, and even more so it is your choice to post about your location and your fish that you own.

should the authorities come on PFury they can only tell your location and your fish if you have posted about them.

but to be honest, the best way of not getting cought is not to do the crime, lol I bet there are plenty of legal fish available wherever you live and I'm sure many of them are cool.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

talk about beening parnoid..


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

the man on the grass knoll is watching you :laugh:


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## Kory (Jun 5, 2003)

if your that god damn worried about it sell your p's and get legal fish its the only way to be trully safe from the law.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

If you are truly worried about your location look up anonymous proxy web surfing or "anonymizer". These will make you look like you are coming from India to the site. It is your decision whether you want to utilize this online resource.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Xenon said:


> If you are truly worried about your location look up anonymous proxy web surfing or "anonymizer". These will make you look like you are coming from India to the site. It is your decision whether you want to utilize this online resource.


 wow nice tip


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## jimbo (Feb 5, 2003)

kreth 10rpb, it says you are from ontario canada? I wouldnt worry about anything because I'm pretty sure it is legal to own piranhas anywhere in canada. Same goes for snakeheads.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2004)

In New Jersey, a permit is required to keep any kind of reptile or amphibian. It's unusual for anybody to have a permit and I don't know of any occasion where the law was enforced. We won't even go into what goes on at the reptile shows.

It would take alot to get the attention of the fish & game department, like selling illegal fish from a store.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

Kreth 10RBP said:


> Class C misdemeanor. Try getting your masters or doctorates with that on your record.
> 
> you wont, because you cant get into schools of higher learning.
> 
> ...


 Just so you know, this would definately not be at the top of the hitlist for f&g. If you've been here long enough, you'd know that we teach people how to be *RESPONSIBLE* piranha owners. Not to scare you or anything, but I wouldnt doubt for a second that f&g knows about this site. The truth is, this site teaches people how to properly care for piranhas and we do not tolerate irresponsible owners. People who even think about releasing their piranhas into the local reservoirs or doing other retarded things like cutting their piranha's lip wouldnt last here. In the piranha discussion forum, we give people valuable info such as proper tank size to house a particular type of piranha. This again reduces the risk of people releasing their animal into the wild because they have no room for it. If anything, we are in a way helping f&g by spreading knowledge about the animal and things not to do.


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

Kain said:


> Kreth 10RBP said:
> 
> 
> > Class C misdemeanor. Try getting your masters or doctorates with that on your record.
> ...


 I only wish they thought the same way you do


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

nitrofish said:


> Kain said:
> 
> 
> > Kreth 10RBP said:
> ...










maybe they do....maybe they dont


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

no i dont want to go back to jail


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## grumble (Feb 4, 2004)

1) this is not an attack on you Kreth 10Rbp but what you are saying seems to be slightly paranoid

2) Your location reads Ontario, Canada but you have a _U.S. _ flag. hmmm...If you are actually from Canada then you shouldnt be worrying about the fish and game department...


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## RBPFan (Dec 1, 2003)

Hey man, just because you are on the site doesn't even mean that you own them. i don't think that posting on a website is enough grounds to do a search and siezure. you are paranoid, cool off. A lot of people on the site own them legally, it would be a total waste of time for the F&G to go after people like you. In Chicago, they have bigger things to worry about, like tigers being kept in bathrooms in apartments attacking their owners and stuff. So unless your F&G has tons of time on their hands and everyone obeys the F&G laws by you and they eventually do get around to you, you should be safe. CALM DOWN MAN!


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

For 1, im not from Canada, but i feel safer saying i am =p... anyway, Xenon, thank you

Yes im paranoid, paranoid because my uncle got busted for something no one would consider important. I just wanted to make sure i was sure i wasn't safe. I dont want to say this, but are the people doing the main selling of piranhas on this site, *whos name i will exclude*, in danger? Since the piranha are legal where they are from?

Im considering visiting fish and game about the issue of owning the fish, obviously i wont mention any names or this website, maybe ill make a documented interview with a head of the F&G department of CA.

People need to stop getting their panties in a bunch, im not tryin to stir up dirt for everyone to choke on, just lifting up some garbage to make sure theirs nothing under thats going to bite my ass later on.

thx for reminding me to change my flag =P


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

Here's the thing man, your uncle bought stolen plants. There's a big difference. The people the guy stole the plants/trees from probably pressed charges. The peeps here are buying fish that were paid for legally. IF f&g were to arrest anyone, it would be the ones buying em in illegal states, not the supplier.


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## ChosenOne22 (Nov 23, 2003)

i think your more likely to hit the lottery then for some wildlife agency to come raid your house for p's..if im wrong im willing to take the chance


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## cooldudectd (Mar 4, 2004)

Chill out, dude. I can see it now. Police ramming down your door screaming "Police, search warrant! Get on the ground". Just because you have fish? C'mon!

It would be a violation of your 4th amendment rights to do anything different. That is the only way they could ever seize your fish and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Learn to relax a little.


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## Hypergenix (Dec 17, 2003)

they will mostly caught lfs selling ps then going to this site and trying to buy a ps from peep from cali...


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## sKuz (May 21, 2003)

1, 2 f&g commin for you. 3, 4 better lock your door. 5, 6, grab your illegal fish. 7, 8 get rid of them mate. 9,10 you are goin to recieve class C misdemeanor cuz you have fish with teeth and EVERYBODY knew you were gonna throw them in the lake.


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## camotekid (Sep 21, 2003)

i think this could be *HANDY*

if somebody is keen on obeying the law, he/she can just follow what the graphical representation on the link is trying to say. Or if you already have these fish and living in a hot place and not really knowing its illegal, i think its up to that person on how he/she would gaze through his/her safety. Good thing there's always people like Xenon, good luck on that software.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

2 of my 4 LFS"s have been busted, the nearest P selling LFS is over 30 minutes away from me... its more common than you might think.


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## Polypterus (May 4, 2003)

As usual the last person anyone wants to hear from, POLYPTERUS!









I think it's quite ammusing some of you people think it is a light matter
in keeping Illegal fish, If you truly have a reason you can get a permit
this gets legal problems out of the way. Damn simple process,
you get it or you don't. Half the reason this is nessesary is stupid people
who just do not follow rules.

this is not a joke if you get caught you will
pay for it, Wildlife laws are not taken less serious than other violations,
This is a serious subject and in some states can carry serious fines and
in some cases jail time,

Remember there are people that are employed by
both the federal government and specific states just to investigate these cases,
I know This very well, I know a number of them. and interact with them often
in my daily work. you think it's not serious think twice.

Kreth 
You are though not identified by address so no worries as far as this
site goes, I would suggest properly permitting your animals to avoid this.

(Or just shut up and stay underground and responsible with them, 
did not hear that from me though







)


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## asian_redtail_catfish (Sep 25, 2003)

The good thing about it is that no member in this board actually said that they got busted for keeping piranhas in an illegal state. Or maybe I did not see it or the post got zapped?


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Well you let me know when the massive F&G raid is, and you can store your fish at my house.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Well you let me know when the massive F&G raid is, and you can store your fish at my house.


 thanks ms Natt, in the instance it does happen, can you give me your # and address, and i mean that in a very hitting on,( coming on to, hinting etc etc) way.










Polypterus, your ok by my book, (for the first time ever btw) and by my book, i mean my perception of people's decency in society.

ps: (only ms. Natt can read this) remind me to bring a camera


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Kreth 10RBP said:


> Ms_Nattereri said:
> 
> 
> > Well you let me know when the massive F&G raid is, and you can store your fish at my house.:laugh:
> ...


 So a PO Box will be okay!??











Kreth said:


> ps: (only ms. Natt can read this) remind me to bring a camera


I accept cash and money orders for any pictures taken.


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## Kreth 10RBP (Dec 5, 2003)

Ms_Nattereri said:


> Kreth 10RBP said:
> 
> 
> > Ms_Nattereri said:
> ...


 travelers checks?


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## inthedark (Mar 15, 2003)

why not push to change the law? Alot is known now about these fish that was not known 20 years ago. If you do not like the law try to change it. As far as working to be a surgeon... Why do you want a 70 hour a week job? just silly. anyway find out why the law exists and change it. that is what its all about. Great resources on this site!!! good luck.


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## upt1me (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm sending the DNR over to bust you.


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)




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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

Thats too funny!


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## Poseidon X (Jan 31, 2003)

honestly... FandGs does not care about you keeping your piranhas in your home and they certaintly are not going to bust down your door.. if they were looking for trouble in the first place they have much bigger fish to fry. With the enormous trade of asian arrowanna all acrossed california.. which is a federal banned and CITES species, why would they bother with a kid keeping a few piranhas? in fact... in older posts regarding asian arowanna... no one has ever busted down someones doors for keeping one of these fish and hauled them off to jail, its never happened... ever, even with the most illegal fish. The ones the autorities are looking for are the sellers of these fish. if you are selling piranhas in california, or selling other illegal fish in mass then they could come after you.

BTW several asian arow farms exist in cali







im going to visit


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## vtecbro007 (Feb 11, 2004)

i changed ma location after reading this thread


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## kdblove_99 (Jul 17, 2003)

I have never heard of anyone from any board getting busted.

I think F&G worry more about LFS's and wish being brought in from over seas, Asian Arowana and Channa's.

Just my $0.02


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## Etnies*Kid (Mar 9, 2004)

Well, if it's going to derail your career...don't do it.


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