# my 8 spilo/macs project



## mashunter18

O.k this has been done before.

My project consists of 8 spilos in a 90 gallon tank.Fish are 5" or so in length.

I am attempting to see if I can get atleast 4 to tolerate each other untill next year.
The purpose then will be to attempt breeding the fish.

Whats happening so far, I had one spilo to begin with, wild caught collected from Brasil.He has been in the tank for a few monthes by himself.The tank is planted somewaht heavy with lots of driftwood.


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## mashunter18

The new fish were brought in today also from Brasil.

Here are some shots

(this post has been edited to keep the thread on track)


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## mashunter18

Here is a side by side of new fish and original fish, the original fish is in the back.


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## mashunter18

It's important to note the new fish came in with lots of fin bites already, probually from shipping or the wild, these fish are notorious fin biters.

I have 3 hospital tanks ready to go and meds as well, so basically all fish can be seperated if/when it gets to rough.

I will add some dither fish today to give them some fins,I plan to see how this goes for a while.Tommorrow I will start on frozen foods and see if the new ones take the food.

Again my goal here is 4 together for breeding, afew maybe sold or lost along the way.Lets hope not.I may upgrade the tank later on as well.

I will keep this thread updated periodically with pictures and whats going on.

I know all the risks and everything so prefer not to get into that.


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## mashunter18

Wow 6 hours in, and no comments huh















Did get a few pms though.

I threw a few smelts in and they gobbled them up.Will update this weekend or so.


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## MR HARLEY

Great pick-up , Cant wait to see them turn Purple


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## killerbee

Thats awesome, i wish u the best of luck


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## mashunter18

MR HARLEY said:


> Great pick-up , Cant wait to see them turn Purple
> [snapback]1050275[/snapback]​


Cool man, so you think these are purple spilo...a.k.a ..macs???????

these guys are really cool, defenitely different then any golds Iv ever had.

Red eye is real prominent already, but they have the clear edge tail, much wider black bar before the clear edge, and before the black bar lots of yellow.

Compared to the one solo fish that I already had, really no red eye, and no yellow on the tail, no humeral blotch.

the new ones have some humeral

Ill have better pictures next time I take some, those fish had just been added when I snapped those this morning.

I have a hard time telling the difference between the two,so I really dont even know, Gold macs and spilos are my worst for iding,I dont even try....lol....


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## MR HARLEY

Couldnt tell ya , But you got them from Jon rare right ? 
If so when he had them in his thread for sale they were pictured with some brilliant purple color , thats what I meant , I hope they Color up for ya

Good Luck on your group


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## Winkyee

Cool. Good Luck with keeping them together, I think they are very nice looking .
pm'd you too.


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## phensway

great pics and great thread, but i would have never thought to look for this in the piranha aquiro forum........


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## mashunter18

MR HARLEY said:


> Couldnt tell ya , But you got them from Jon rare right ?
> If so when he had them in his thread for sale they were pictured with some brilliant purple color , thats what I meant , I hope they Color up for ya
> 
> Good Luck on your group
> [snapback]1050412[/snapback]​


Yep got these from Jon, I see what your saying, thanks for the support



> phensway Posted Today, 06:12 PM
> great pics and great thread, but i would have never thought to look for this in the piranha aquiro forum........


thanks, glad you like the thread, figured this was the forum for it

Piranha Aquario
The piranha eco-system forum to discuss relationships with groups of piranhas, *same species* or with other fishes found in the wild or mixed in the home aquarium. FOR ADVANCED AQUARISTS ONLY. 
Forum Led by: Grosse Gurke, Judazzz


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## Piranha King

congrats, i'm doing the exact same setup as you only im starting with 10 fish. just got them today. good luck, btw you need to update your signature now.
wes


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## NavinWithPs

whoa, 8 in a 90? are you gonna upgrade soon?? i know a member who has 4 in a 180 and there are enough problems.

best of luck!


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## fishofury

Good luck with your project. Give them a lot of hiding places and make sure that they are very well fed. Even skipping a regular feeding schedule may cause irritation and agressive behaviors among them. Keep the temp in the low to mid 70's to reduce fightings. Any temp above 78 will create non stop fights among them. Have a hospital tank ready just in case. Also make sure to just sit and observe your fish for a few hours after they have gotten acclimated to their new enviornment so that you can find out which ones are the trouble makers in the group and remove them if necessary. Once again, good luck. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me









Beautiful looking fish BTW.


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## b_ack51

Good luck matt. I'll have to stop by and check out the new fish this weekend.


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## serrasalmus_collector

Good luck my friend. If you have true S.Spilopleura and S.Maculatus together watch the Spilopleura closely. I kept 2 strawberry spilos with 9 S.Maculatus for some time. The Spilopleura appeared to be more savage to nipping fins. Every setup and group of fish can be different. I'm just sharing what I noticed.

Ps. Breeding is your goal, and I think that's one of the best reasons to house serras together. Keep us posted on the occurrences in your tank.

How big are your fish? There is a dealer in the metro-Detroit area that has about 600 baby macs ranging from 1.5 to 2 inches. There is a possibility you may have some of those fish.


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## Piranha King

they are 5" from jon, rare afishinado. they are wild caughts from i think venezuela.
edit:sorry they are from brazil
wes


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## kove32

I think they are from Brasil actually!


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## mashunter18

fishofury said:


> Good luck with your project. Give them a lot of hiding places and make sure that they are very well fed. Even skipping a regular feeding schedule may cause irritation and agressive behaviors among them. Keep the temp in the low to mid 70's to reduce fightings. Any temp above 78 will create non stop fights among them. Have a hospital tank ready just in case. Also make sure to just sit and observe your fish for a few hours after they have gotten acclimated to their new enviornment so that you can find out which ones are the trouble makers in the group and remove them if necessary. Once again, good luck. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me
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> Beautiful looking fish BTW.
> [snapback]1051141[/snapback]​


thanks......

Im running the tempature at 74 degrees.

Obviously they are not settled in, the tank is in my bedroom,I was running my finger along the glass, several of them would come right to it then dart away, defenitely will be watching for the aggression.

I have 3 hospital tanks ready, so I could with some egg crate seperate them all if I have to.

They came in with lots of bites and nips, which is fine, the only problen is It will be hard to tell if any new ones for a few weeks,the flawless one I had in there already Ill be able to watch him and see if he gets any nips.

these guys are defenitely the most active in the dark, thats for sure.

I feed them a few smelts yesterday afternoon, and last night they all devoured a piece of catfish fillet

ill defenitely be wathcing them closely the first couple of weeks.



> they are 5" from jon, rare afishinado. they are wild caughts from i think venezuela.
> wes


I thought Jon said they were from brasil?????

The one I had purchased a few monthes ago from george he said was brasil also.

im certain he is probually spilo and the new ones are macs---------or-------switched around.

I got 7 from Jon, so you got a few extras on me









im not to concerned with what species they are, im sure we will find out for sure eventually,unless someone knows for sure.

thanks for the support

Im gonna keep everyone updated in this thread, if people are still interested Ill keep it going, if it dies out, oh well....:laugh:



> Good luck my friend. If you have true S.Spilopleura and S.Maculatus together watch the Spilopleura closely. I kept 2 strawberry spilos with 9 S.Maculatus for some time. The Spilopleura appeared to be more savage to nipping fins. Every setup and group of fish can be different. I'm just sharing what I noticed.
> 
> Ps. Breeding is your goal, and I think that's one of the best reasons to house serras together. Keep us posted on the occurrences in your tank.
> 
> How big are your fish? There is a dealer in the metro-Detroit area that has about 600 baby macs ranging from 1.5 to 2 inches. There is a possibility you may have some of those fish.


Im certain I have both, just not sure what the 7 are and what the single original is??? Defenitely different color patterns and tails, but i think that can all change.The newer 7 have lots of red in the eyes, the original 1 is still very clear eyes.


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## hastatus

> PIRANHA KING Posted Today, 10:48 AM
> they are 5" from jon, rare afishinado. they are wild caughts from i think venezuela.
> wes


Neither S. spilopleura or S. maculatus come from Venezuela. Unless of course they are transplanted there.


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## mashunter18

hastatus said:


> PIRANHA KING Posted Today, 10:48 AM
> they are 5" from jon, rare afishinado. they are wild caughts from i think venezuela.
> wes
> 
> 
> 
> Neither S. spilopleura or S. maculatus come from Venezuela. Unless of course they are transplanted there.
> [snapback]1051748[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

defenitely Brasil,

I read the thread about spilos changing colors, as they mature.
I think Ill just assume all mine are spilos for now.So that will solve that.
Plus they seem to match the Jegu desription..

Now lets see how these guys settle in.


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## kove32

Are these guys active or do they mostly just stay in their territories?


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## Piranha King

hastatus said:


> PIRANHA KING Posted Today, 10:48 AM
> they are 5" from jon, rare afishinado. they are wild caughts from i think venezuela.
> wes
> 
> 
> 
> Neither S. spilopleura or S. maculatus come from Venezuela. Unless of course they are transplanted there.
> [snapback]1051748[/snapback]​
Click to expand...

yes im sorry. i checked his email they are from brazil. mine are extremely active.
wes


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## mashunter18

Well day 4 update



kove32 said:


> Are these guys active or do they mostly just stay in their territories?
> [snapback]1052272[/snapback]​


So far they are still settling in, each one claiming their own little territory so to speak.Fish are very active at night.Iv witnessed a couple little chases but nothing more then what pygos may do so far.

I expect it will become more aggressive.

I have not put any dither fish in as I said I would earlier.

Fish have gladly devoured catfish fillets and a few smelts.

I feed on day one and day three.


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## Piranha King

my temp is at 81 degrees. thats why mine are more active. they seem to get along good, but i keep feeders in with them.
wes


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## mashunter18

Well been a week, so far so good.

Fish are looking much better fins are starting to heal. Original spilo is still spotless all fins intact.

At times 2-3 of the spilos are very protective of the spot they have claimed, other times I come in and all spilos are grouped together on one side of the tank.I have one fish that has started to show real aggressiveness, protecting his spot heavily ,the fish are getting used to people traffic as well.I think the chasing is pretty much over territory and I have yet to see fin nipping.I cant say any of the bites are new just yet.

Fish have only been feed every other day so far smelts and catfish fillet.Im doing 20% water change every other day.

I still havnt put any dither fish in, not sure on that just yet.Spending an hour or so nightly watching these guys.



> PIRANHA KING Posted Jun 5 2005, 11:22 PM
> my temp is at 81 degrees. thats why mine are more active. they seem to get along good, but i keep feeders in with them.
> wes


Hey Wes I had my solo spilo at 80 degrees, when I added his 7 buddies I had turned it down to 74, i think im gonna keep the lower tempature going for now.

Ill update in about 9-10 days and get some pictures, these guys should be good and acclimated and somewhat adjusted by then...


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## FLsunshine

everything will be fine ive had a my spilo with my red bellies once they establish their own territories theyll elave each other alone


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## mashunter18

FLsunshine said:


> everything will be fine ive had a my spilo with my red bellies once they establish their own territories theyll elave each other alone
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> [snapback]1059200[/snapback]​


Thats a pretty general statement, you cant possibly belive that, and if I remember correctly your mixing has only been 2-3 monthes, so thats not really true what you are saying.

If what you say is true, 10 years or so ago when I mixed "gold piranha" as that is what I knew them as then, with my reds, sure didnt last more then 5-6 monthes, with a strict feeding of 200 or so feeder goldfish a week....









This is about 8 spilos, nothing to do with natteri , so lets keep that stuff out of this thread, as I said in the beggining



> mashunter18 Jun 2 2005, 07:58 AM Post #1
> 
> O.k this has been done before.
> 
> My project consists of 8 spilo/mac in a 90 gallon tank.Fish are 5" or so in length
> 
> *I am attempting to see if I can get atleast 4 to tolerate each other untill next year.
> The purpose then will be to attempt breeding the fish.*


Thats the goal here for this project, this is a breeding project, if this was just to see if they could live together I would have gotten babies, but the fish are even more nasty fin biters when small, hence the reason for going with larger fish.

This has been in the planning stages for monthes, fish were choosen based on all being collected from the same place wanted only fish from brasil, I waited monthes to get the right fish,I talked to a few of my trusted wholesalers and dealers who keep serras together tempararely on a regular basis, and I talked to long time hobbyists who have breed this species.

My point is this isnt just a quick thought of well lets see what happens, this is basically for breeding and I decided to take a chance, and share whats going on with others here.

I dont want anyone to read what you say and think oh cool glad it will work.

I have a long term plan here for if things do go "allright" what I will do next......but we will get to all that as these moves forward.


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## EZmoney

Damn those are some beauties that u got there. I am really loking forward to updates GL


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## Xenon

NICE MAN. Keep us informed.


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## Death in #'s

dam great thread 
keep up with the pics and the info


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## mashunter18

Well its been 18 days.

Havnt changed anything, still feeding every other day, zero dither fish or feeders at all.

The wild fish have healed up their fins, currently 7 of the 3 have one fin bite each or so, nothing bad at all.They look real good now.A few seem to have a favorible spot in the tank.It appears I have one fish that is very aggressive over his spot.I will keep a watch on him.

Will update in a few weeks or month or so.

Here are some pictures, look at the fins, you may see some bites or you can see where the fins have regrown, and are defenitely regenerated.


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## mashunter18

Second picture fish to the left if you can see him, thats the guy that could be trouble, he doesnt like to hang out with the others..


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## kove32

What is feeding like?


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## benJii

kove32 said:


> What is feeding like?
> [snapback]1072022[/snapback]​


good q, im sure its pretty awsum, keep us updated, i think that looks very cool


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## mashunter18

Feeding is just like pygos.8 fish fighting to see who can get the most the fastest.....................lol....


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## kove32

That makes sense. I know that when I keep solitary serras, they usually stare at the food, grab it and go back and eat it. I didn't know if they went one by one or they just all went and got what they could you know? I didn't know if they were cautious or not! Thanks for the anserw!


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## killerbee

awesome, update with pics please


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## pira-me

like your project


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## Killa RedZ

dang thats nice lets hope fr the best


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## mashunter18

Well it happend, exactly one month later I had my first casualty.

View attachment 67748

View attachment 67750


1 week ago, after a water change, the fish become very nippy with each other.
From whats left the fish just munched away on this guy.

1 other fish is being sold, he has been very aggressive and taken over most of the tank.I notice he has a nice full belly, cant blame the fish this is what they do.

Feeding schedule has not changed every other day, and they are due to eat today, so no feeding was missed.I actually feed the fish extra food on the last feeding
(wednesday)

At this point, 6 fish will remain, 1 casualty, and 1 sold for being to aggressive.

I will see how the tank handles the aggressive fish being removed before i change any feeding routines.

I do notice out of the 6 that will remain 2 pairs of fish seem to be buddies and like to hang out right next to each other.This is a good sign to me.

Most that I know that has put these fish together and had TRUE WILD FISH not tank breed fish, has had loses, Im talking about 5 plus fish together for long periods of time.

more to come soon


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## killerbee

sorry to hear about your casualty







i saw you were selling the one that claimed half the tank in the classifieds.good luck.


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## Grosse Gurke

Suxs you lost one, but I think it is for the best. At least you now know who the bad seed is and you are dealing with him. Hopefully your group will settle down now and another one wont take over that roll.

Good luck dude.


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## mashunter18

Grosse Gurke said:


> Suxs you lost one, but I think it is for the best. At least you now know who the bad seed is and you are dealing with him. Hopefully your group will settle down now and another one wont take over that roll.
> 
> Good luck dude.
> [snapback]1092107[/snapback]​


Very true, and let me also mention, I did have the trouble fish isolated, he was added back to the main spilo tank, due to the fact that my reds have breed 7 times in the last 21 days, 5 different batches of fry, and I had to make a choice, between a batch of fry or the reds, ahhhhhh a few days wont matter, boy was I wrong.

Had the spilo packed for shipping, went to dhl 20 minutes before they close, and they decided to leave early for holiday weekend


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## Piranha King

sorry to hear that. mine didn't show much aggression at all. they all stay huddled together. i wish you and brian good luck with your projects.
wes


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## Fomoris

Sorry to hear about that... I hope the 6 remaining will get along fine


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## pira-me

it's a shame that lost


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## mashunter18

Well emergency posting here.I just caught another offender of the attacks.My neighbor and his buddy were looking at the fish.His buddy was to receive some baby reds from me in a few weeks, and I offered him up the other aggressor.So another fish was sold.

So I am down to 5.I feel good about these 5 fish,I really dont want anything else to happen from here on out.It sucks I lost the one to aggression.The other 2 that were sold, were defenitely the key offenders judging by their bellies on the attack.


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## Red Eyes

mashunter18 said:


> Well emergency posting here.I just caught another offender of the attacks.My neighbor and his buddy were looking at the fish.His buddy was to receive some baby reds from me in a few weeks, and I offered him up the other aggressor.So another fish was sold.
> 
> So I am down to 5.I feel good about these 5 fish,I really dont want anything else to happen from here on out.It sucks I lost the one to aggression.The other 2 that were sold, were defenitely the key offenders judging by their bellies on the attack.
> [snapback]1095942[/snapback]​


Well its a good thing you caught him in the act before any more losses


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## hastatus

Nasty critters eh?


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## Gigante Pirana

I always wondered myself whether in absence of seeing the actual initial attack on a fish lost due to predation, that the remaining habitants or the the one singled out as having the largest belly is a true indicator being the "most aggressive or aggressor" in a particular scenario. Indeed that oversized bellied fish may have been the most opportunistics of all his mates for that moment of carnage. Just wondering!


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## mashunter18

Ahh, I see Frank is back











Gigante Pirana said:


> I always wondered myself whether in absence of seeing the actual initial attack on a fish lost due to predation, that the remaining habitants or the the one singled out as having the largest belly is a true indicator being the "most aggressive or aggressor" in a particular scenario. Indeed that oversized bellied fish may have been the most opportunistics of all his mates for that moment of carnage. Just wondering!
> [snapback]1096772[/snapback]​


Very true, very true.

In my case its obvious the one fish was very aggressive, not only in taking over the tank, but belly was pretty full.

the second fish just sold yesterday, has been pretty protective over a small area, not like the first fish though.

The first fish would just swim around and literally just charge at the others, the second,just dont feel confortable with him in there, both fish are gone now, well one the first is being shipped tonight.

but what you say is true its a guess, but I gotta go with my gut here.5 remain,I suppose I could hit my buddy in town up that just got 10 from the same batch for 1 more,im happy with 5, Maybe I just feel like Im doing better by selling the few.

If aggression remains strong,Ill up feedings to daily and add feeders.Im trying to avoid dither fish, try and break them from fins......lol..
















We will see what happens


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## hastatus

Yup I'm back. 2 weeks + without all the internet insanity was nice. So nice, that in August, we are heading for Canada for 4 to 5 days.

Anyway, your information is quite interesting and well written. I did a quick follow up on S. sanchezi (the pair in the same tank) and so far they are doing fine except for the larger doing the fin biting. I'm fairly certain the larger are female, but that is just an educated guess. I haven't mixed the mac's back again but may do so in the winter time. For now they are kept separate in divided tanks. The certainly try to bite each other through the partition.


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## mashunter18

hastatus said:


> Yup I'm back. 2 weeks + without all the internet insanity was nice. So nice, that in August, we are heading for Canada for 4 to 5 days.
> 
> Anyway, your information is quite interesting and well written. I did a quick follow up on S. sanchezi (the pair in the same tank) and so far they are doing fine except for the larger doing the fin biting. I'm fairly certain the larger are female, but that is just an educated guess. I haven't mixed the mac's back again but may do so in the winter time. For now they are kept separate in divided tanks. The certainly try to bite each other through the partition.
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> [snapback]1096851[/snapback]​


Glad you like the info Frank, this is kind of like a blog thread,just posting what I see and what im doing.Like the official pfury gold spilo project.you know this is nothing new,I am going aginst the grain by refusing feeder fish up to now,Im just convinced the death was not food related issue, but purely a territorial issue, and instict to go for fins.

Like gigante said who knows If i made the right move, I could of just sold 2 breeders and had one eatin
Second fish was officially shipped so 5 remain, the 2 buddy pairs and the other that just chills, hopefully they mellow out, tempature is still low and I will feed daily for a week or so.

Are those your 2 macs that breed with the divider between them??


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## hastatus

Yes those are one and the same.


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## mashunter18

hastatus said:


> Yes those are one and the same.
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> [snapback]1097009[/snapback]​


Hey Frank maybe those 2 fish miss each other


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## hastatus

They will get another opportunity to visit when I have tank space available. Having piranha eggs or fry at this time is not a priority for me. Plus, I have no interest in raising young fish anymore. Been there done that.







One of the benefits of being retired is learning to say "no more".









Besides, there are other people that want to be #1 in breeding piranha. Problem is the top is very crowded.


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## mashunter18

I hear ya frank









Now that I have just the 5 fish, I feel pretty comfortable, its been just a few days with the 5 but they seem to be staying together,they may still be stressed over the net coming into their turf twice in the last week and 2 of their buddies disappearing.

I will update soon...


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## ITsPennywise

I just want to comment that this an awesome thread and very interesting...Keep the info and pics a comin'.


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## Piranha King

nice avatar, that suckers long.
wes


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## Judazzz

Interesting topic







Good luck with your project, Matt









One question: what are the tank's dimensions? (now that my 80g will be free once I sold my Reds, it offers interesting possibilities...)


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## mashunter18

PIRANHA KING said:


> nice avatar, that suckers long.
> wes
> [snapback]1104443[/snapback]​


yeah he is not even the big one..







Figured I didnt own the tern anymore so i switched it up











> Judazzz Posted Today, 06:21 AM
> Interesting topic buttrock.gif Good luck with your project, Matt thumb.gif
> 
> One question: what are the tank's dimensions? (now that my 80g will be free once I sold my Reds, it offers interesting possibilities...)


thanks Jonas and everyone else for the support, I will keep everyone informed, next time I do an update I will get good fin pictures so you guys can see how they look, now that the killer has been removed, the 90 gallon is 48" long, 18" wide and 24" tall. Iv got a friend in town here with 10 of these in a 125 gallon thats 6 feet long, same fish from the same batch as mine.
Next spring if 5 fish still remain I may seperate 2 fish to a 55 gallon, and 3 in the 90 gallon, obviously I will be assuming the 2 are a pair.

Im hoping if I can keep them alive together they will want to breed, thats the goal


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## b_ack51

Sucks to read that you lost one fish Matt and gave up two. But I believe this will be for the better in the long run. More room for each fish, less chance of a problem fish, better chances for those two "pairs" to get along.

Actually I just have the 10 golds in a 100 gallon long, same dimensions length and width of a 125, just shorter in height. Definately a tank made for p's. So far my fish are good, fins are healing up. They are still adjusting to the catfish filets I offer them. Every week or so, I'll add a few dither fish just in case one of them is still hungry. Rather have them take out the dither fish instead of another gold.

I will be watching these guys closely. I have already down a few water changes with these fish. No problems, the usual chase for a second, but no actualy fighting. I do notice about 8 or 9 fish stay at the bottom of the tank in a pack when the light is on, and one or two will be near the top of the driftwood by themself(ves). If I do lessen my "group", I will let you know first.


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## mashunter18

b_ack51 said:


> . If I do lessen my "group", I will let you know first.
> [snapback]1107052[/snapback]​


Oh great thanks, just what I need another killer :laugh:









Yeah let me know


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