# Help, I cant get rid of a problem



## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

I set up a new 75 gal tank and installed a new 400 biofilter and all new substrate. I tested the water 3 days ago and found that the amonia level is between .25 and .5. I did a 25 percent water change the last two days and suctioned the substrate both times. I have not been removing the excess shrimp in the last two weeks untill the next morning because the fish havent been eating. I figured they are stressed a little since I moved them into this new tank. They have now started eating just not as much as they have been in the past. I noticed that all the carbon is gone in the filter today wondering if this could be the problem. i cleaned the filters which stank like dead fish and were dark spotted in places. I have a whisper 60 air pump installed in this tank as well. The four red bellies came out of a 90 gallon tank with 2 penguin powerheads installed in it and I never had a problem with amonia registering berfore. Can someone tell me why I have it now and is this at a not so dangerous level right now. I plan on doing 25 percent water changes every day untill the level is back to zero. I also dumpped in some ammo lock today to be on the safe side. It called for 5ml per 10 gal and the bottle only had 30ml and the application called for 40ml. I read when setting up a new tank that amonia level will rise to a .6 in a couple of weeks time and then will turn to nitrites after this...is this whats happening? Anybody have any suggestions? If you want to see them in their tank check out the video"my RB's in action" http://www.putfile.com/tripplebeards


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

243me said:


> I set up a new 75 gal tank and installed a new 400 biofilter and all new substrate. I tested the water 3 days ago and found that the amonia level is between .25 and .5. I did a 25 percent water change the last two days and suctioned the substrate both times. I have not been removing the excess shrimp in the last two weeks untill the next morning because the fish havent been eating. I figured they are stressed a little since I moved them into this new tank. They have now started eating just not as much as they have been in the past. I noticed that all the carbon is gone in the filter today wondering if this could be the problem. i cleaned the filters which stank like dead fish and were dark spotted in places. I have a whisper 60 air pump installed in this tank as well. The four red bellies came out of a 90 gallon tank with 2 penguin powerheads installed in it and I never had a problem with amonia registering berfore. Can someone tell me why I have it now and is this at a not so dangerous level right now. I plan on doing 25 percent water changes every day untill the level is back to zero. I also dumpped in some ammo lock today to be on the safe side. It called for 5ml per 10 gal and the bottle only had 30ml and the application called for 40ml. I read when setting up a new tank that amonia level will rise to a .6 in a couple of weeks time and then will turn to nitrites after this...is this whats happening? Anybody have any suggestions? If you want to see them in their tank check out the video"my RB's in action" http://www.putfile.com/tripplebeards


For how long have you had this set up going? Is it really cycled? Water changes are not a solution if you have an ammonia/ammonium problem. It is a sign that you do not have enough nitrifying bacteria (not cycled) to take care of this. Carbon in filter is not a solution either. You should not use it unless you are removing some poison or medicine from your tank.

Ammonia levels of that high will cause problems in the respiration and skin of the fishes. A common first symptom is that they do not eat, next they do not swim and then ...

Regards,


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

Yes, how long has the tank been running?


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

Tank has been running about maybe, 2.5 weeks now. I did over a 3/4 water change this morning leaving about 4 to 5" of water left in the tank just above the gravel. I have no under water filteration system and was wondering if I added a Penguin 1140 and ran it under the gravel along with keeping the Biowheel if this would take care of the problem. Can a Biowheel 400 really cycle 75 gallons of water by itself? After the water change my amonia went from a reading of 1 to .25. I have never had a problem with amonia till now. All my other tanks run Penguin Powerheads and nothing else. All I have been doing in the past is just vaccuming out the tank bottoms once a week. Whats going on? Could it be because of the new substrate. i never had a Biowheel before...could it be because of this?


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

243me said:


> I have never had a problem with amonia till now. All my other tanks run Penguin Powerheads and nothing else. All I have been doing in the past is just vaccuming out the tank bottoms once a week. Whats going on? Could it be because of the new substrate. i never had a Biowheel before...could it be because of this?


I don't understand how you have never had a problem with your tanks when all you run is a powerhead. That really baffles me!


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

How do I establish benifical bacteria so i can kill my amonia problem? Could this be done by adding substrate from another tank? And if so how much?


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

243me said:


> How do I establish benifical bacteria so i can kill my amonia problem? Could this be done by adding substrate from another tank? And if so how much?


Yes, but it wont cure the problem. Go find some Bio spira.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

243me said:


> How do I establish benifical bacteria so i can kill my amonia problem? Could this be done by adding substrate from another tank? And if so how much?


Substrate alone? Probably not. Established media would be the best thing to add. The only other thing you can really do, if just allow the tank to cycle, and add a teaspoon of dissolved salt once the ammonia starts to peak, and you start to see nitrItes. Do not change any water until your cycle has finished, you would will only prolong the process.

I'll ask this again, what did you use to cycle the tank with?


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

What do you mean by cycling the tank? TO cycle the water i use a Biowheel 400 and tetra whisper 60 air pump. I was thinking of adding a penguin 1140 powerhead to help cycle the water.

What is bio spira?


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## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

243me said:


> What do you mean by cycling the tank? TO cycle the water i use a Biowheel 400 and tetra whisper 60 air pump. I was thinking of adding a penguin 1140 powerhead to help cycle the water.
> 
> What is bio spira?


Cycleing means getting your tank ready for fish. All you need is 2 emp 400's add some sh*t fish and some bio spira and you will be good to go in a week. Here is a little tip, seaching the site will be a lot faster for answer other than waiting for other members to respond. Thats how i learnt, got my own answers!~ Good luck


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

243me said:


> ...I'm going to try to make this as simple and brief as possible. If you have any questions afterwards, feel free to ask, but I just have to be quick about this because I have some reports to run :laugh:
> 
> Before you put fish in a tank that you plan on keeping, you need to "cycle" the tank. There are several methods to doing this, but they all do the same thing. First, you need to know a little bit about the nitrogen cycle, which works a little bit like this.
> 
> ...


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

I addded a Penguin 1140 powerhead and installed a filter at the bottm of it so I wouldnt have to run an under water filter system last night. I checked the water this morning and its still at .25 for amonia. At this level will it hurt my fish untill the tank has finished cycling. Thanks for the article.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

243me said:


> I addded a Penguin 1140 powerhead and installed a filter at the bottm of it so I wouldnt have to run an under water filter system last night. I checked the water this morning and its still at .25 for amonia. At this level will it hurt my fish untill the tank has finished cycling. Thanks for the article.


The ammonia will be uncomfortable for them, but it hasn't peaked yet either. After it does, your nitrites will peak, which I believe are more harmful to fish. Once your Ammonia begins to peak, I would take a cup of tank water, and dissolve 1 teaspoon of salt in it. Make sure it's completely dissolved and pour it into the tank. This will help with ammonia burn and nitrite poisoning. At this point, keep testing the water, but don't do any water changes until the cycle has completed.


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks for all the helpful input posters. This is the first tank I have ever set up with new substrate...thats my problem. All the rest have been set up with substrate that has been used for years and I just add some from one of my previous tanks. After reading your helpful post nextech84, I know now that there was no benificial bacteria set up in this tank and will never put fish into a new tank again untill this process has been completed. How long dose it take for this transformation anyway? Yesterday the amonia was up to a 1.0 so I did a three quarter water change being afraid it would harm my fish and it dropped to .25 and that is where it was when I tested it this morning. It might have already peaked since it was at .25 three and four days ago. Two days ago it was at .5 and yesterday a 1.0. Now after the water change it has stayed at .25 and I did dissolve a little more than a table spoon of sea salt and added it to the water yesterday as well. I'm assuming it takes like a week to two weeks for this process once it gets going? I'm I safe to put some more ammo lock or some kind of amonia chips into the water or will this prolong the process?


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

I couldnt find the product called Bio Spira but im guessing the product I bought called Cycle has to be close to the same thing. It has benificial bacteria in it. I also through in some more ammo lock to be safe. Between these two and adding the 1140 penguin powerhead I think will be the answer...only time will tell.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

243me said:


> Thanks for all the helpful input posters. This is the first tank I have ever set up with new substrate...thats my problem. All the rest have been set up with substrate that has been used for years and I just add some from one of my previous tanks. After reading your helpful post nextech84, I know now that there was no benificial bacteria set up in this tank and will never put fish into a new tank again untill this process has been completed. How long dose it take for this transformation anyway? Yesterday the amonia was up to a 1.0 so I did a three quarter water change being afraid it would harm my fish and it dropped to .25 and that is where it was when I tested it this morning. It might have already peaked since it was at .25 three and four days ago. Two days ago it was at .5 and yesterday a 1.0. Now after the water change it has stayed at .25 and I did dissolve a little more than a table spoon of sea salt and added it to the water yesterday as well. I'm assuming it takes like a week to two weeks for this process once it gets going? I'm I safe to put some more ammo lock or some kind of amonia chips into the water or will this prolong the process?


You're welcome, glad I could help!









If you ever want the cycle to complete, and be able to handle your current bio-load, then you really need to refrain from doing water changes. Every time you change water you are screwing up the cycle. The ammonia has to get up to a certain level before it will attract and establish the bacteria to convert it to nitrites. the same must be done until the nitrites are converted into nitrates, and both nitrites and ammonia go down to zero.

You have 2 options in my opinion. Either keep the fish in the tank and add some dissolved salt like I suggested earlier, and let the tank do it's thing. Or you need to take the fish out and put them into a temporary home with fresh water, and keep doing water changes in that until the other tank is ready. It will cause them stress either way, so it's up to you.


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## cory (Jan 31, 2006)

I checked my water today as I was out of town for a day. The amonia dropped from .5 to less than .25. I added a little more ammo lock and 4 more cap fulls of cycle to speed up the process. Hopefully in a day or two the cycling will be close to done. On the bottle of "Cylce" it says it only takes like 4 or 6 days to complete. Fish are eating like hogs again so this has to be a good sign.


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## NexTech84 (Jan 19, 2006)

243me said:


> I checked my water today as I was out of town for a day. The amonia dropped from .5 to less than .25. I added a little more ammo lock and 4 more cap fulls of cycle to speed up the process. Hopefully in a day or two the cycling will be close to done. On the bottle of "Cylce" it says it only takes like 4 or 6 days to complete. Fish are eating like hogs again so this has to be a good sign.


I don't think you understand the concept behind the nitrogen cycle.

Are you getting a reading for nitrites yet? The reason I ask is that if you keep adding things to get rid of the ammonia in your tank, then the cycle will just take longer and longer. The best thing to do is just let the tank cycle. Add some salt to help the fish through it, but don't add ammo-lock or anything like that. I really hate to say it, but this is why people really need to know about cycling a tank prior to placing fish in it. Sadly, it's a common mistake made by many...


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## Pat (Jul 19, 2004)

Listen to nextech84. Don't get rid of the ammonia. You need it man.


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