# Need some advice asap



## Piranha Guy (Oct 22, 2003)

Hello,
To make a long story short I know the guy who owns my lfs and he is closing so I helped out for a few weeks while he ran some going out of business sales and need to take some time off. I worked for product and such. After taking a bunch of stuff for my tanks he surpried by giving me a 30G L tank full set up with stand for $50. When I say full set up I mean Tank top lights gravel undergravel filter 2 smaller powerheads. I would like to do a planted tank but I have no idea what steps I need to take. First off can I keep the undergravel filter. Second how much gravel should I have in there. Third what type of CO2 System should I buy, currently I dont have the time to make one. Fourh what do I need to do to make this tank sucesfull. Fifth what type of fish should/can I stock in it. At first I though of a lot of neons or a few angles but I would like some suggestions. Sorry for the long post but I really want to do this right the first time and have a nice tank.
Thanks in advance for all the help.


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## micus (Jan 7, 2004)

for a succesful planted tank u need 3 things,

LIGHT, meaning 1-3 watts of photosynthetic light per gallon

NUTRIENTS, meaning smaller things like iron, potassium, etc. this can usually be had by just normal tap water, BUT its always a good idea to have a very good liquid fertilizer, i use kent plant fertilizer, with iron,

FOOD, meaning c02 or wutever, NOW just cause i say co2 deosnt necessarily mean a preusirzed co2 system, u can often get by quite nicely without that, usually all u need is some fish, they produce waste and the plants eat that, if u want to keep your co2 at a maximum, your gonna want to use filters that disrupt the surface area as much as possible, so a small canister filter would be best, and im pretty sure that undergravel filters are not recommended for planted tanks,

hope this all helps,


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## Lonald (Jan 10, 2004)

micus said:


> for a succesful planted tank u need 3 things,
> 
> LIGHT, meaning 1-3 watts of photosynthetic light per gallon
> 
> ...


 Indubidebly :laugh:

ya that sounds bout right


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## Piranha Guy (Oct 22, 2003)

What is the best type of substrate to use also what is the recemonded type of filter?


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## delta (Jul 23, 2004)

ive actually read that under gravel filters are good for plants and i know i have no probs w mine and i dont use co2 but gonna get a co2 setup soon.


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

it took me less than 30 min. to make my c02 thingey


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## yorkshire (Jul 27, 2004)

delta said:


> ive actually read that under gravel filters are good for plants and i know i have no probs w mine and i dont use co2 but gonna get a co2 setup soon.


 I heard that undergravel filters were good for plants too :nod:

Apparently it helps draw nutrients into the gravel, also helps to draw the plant roots deeper so they get a better grip in the substrate.


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## tick (Apr 16, 2004)

I heard undergravel are no good because the water circulating dosent give them time to use up the nutrients.
These are the lights I use on my two 55 gallon tanks www.ahsupply.com I use 4 55 watt light bulbs over each of them.For my 10 a 36 watt bulb.Have at least 4 watts per gallon and you,ll be able to grow any plant.3watts and grow moderate light using plants.2,1watt grow low light plants such as anubias,java ferns,cryptocoryne.I would recommend 4 watts and youll have more success and a faster growth rate.2 55 watt bulbs on a 30 gallon would go good. 
I would use a canister filter with mechanical,biological filtration only.Since chemical could remove some use full nutrients for the plants so its not really necessary.Gravel use small 1mm 2mm gravel or slightly larger. I wouldnt recomend sand since it tends to compact and cause dead spots in your gravel.For co2 you could do a diy yeast co2 setup but you stated you didnt have time.Look in the computer for co2 systems.Remeber not to agitate your water at the surface since this could remove the co2 from the water.Also you will need a reactor to mix the co2 to the water.I use my power head to dispears the gas.For fish its really up to you.Good luck 
If you need more help let me know


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## Piranha Guy (Oct 22, 2003)

I purchased a co2 system on sale at the same lfs going out of business for a few dollars it says its good for up to 20g so I grabbed two of them. But im not sure if I should use both or just use one and let the fish do the rest. I think that im going to go with a hang on the back penguin filter because I have an extra one laying around. As far as substrate should I put anything under my gravel and how many inches of gravel should I use? Also do I need to produce extra oxygen in the water via a air pump or should the plants produce enough? Also I will be ordering my plants off the internet anyone have any good sites to order off of? Once my tank is planed what type of up-keep is needed? Thanks again. I just want to make sure I get this right the first time around so any suggestions on what works for you guys let me know. Also if you have any pictures for ideas it would be greatly appreciated.


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## 0123 (May 18, 2004)

i thought you wanted LESS surface agitation im pretty sure... (this is what ive read everywhere else) since something about more surface agitation releases co2 or something like this

but im not really a plant expert lol im just getting into plants kinda...


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## tick (Apr 16, 2004)

When using co2 you dont want to have too much in there.Theres a graph thats on some other web page.It shows you the safe level of co2 you could have in your tank.It measures co2 by Ph and Kh readings.Ill post it for you if you like.So if you use one of your co2 and the reading is safe you dont need to use the other one.Filter is fine but make sure it dosent aggitate your water to much or you will loose co2.Only Gravel will do.You might on occasion need to add supplement to your gravel if you get heavy root feeding plants.3to4 inches of gravel is what you need.About adding a air pump I would do it only at night when lights are off.This is when plant release co2 and use oxygen.Ihave ordered from these places. www.azgardens.com. and www.aquaticplantdepot.com.
keep up, change water,prunning if needed,Fertilize, and occassionly pick up detrius from only the surface (siphon it) .You dont need to gravel vac since this could disturb the roots and if you add supplement it could reach the water column and cause a algea outbreak.Ill post a site of a planted aquarium contest pictures were you might some ideas.Hope it helps!


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## tick (Apr 16, 2004)

Co2 chart.Look at the second graph.You should probably make a copy.
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html

For Ideas
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

Undergravelfilters are good for plants but not for fish...


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

I just recently removed all 3 of my undergravel filters for 1 reasons. They don't work.

All an UGF does is suck the poop through the substraitwhich.....
Blows blended poop around your tank, which................
Causes massive amounts of amonia in your tank.

If you have live barrer fish (ie. Guppies, Mollies, or Sword Tails) it will suck the babies through the substait, blend them up in the power head and blow them into your water, which........
Causes massive amounts of amonia in your tank.

They cause your power filters to work extra hard, just to remove the blended up waste from your water.

As I just explaind, plants will not be able to eat the poop because the UGF sucks it under and out of the filter. So no, UGF are not plant friendly.

Only way it would seem that an UGF would work, is if you have a deep gravel bed. But this is not ideal because a deeper gravel bed would cause the UGF would compact the gravel, which in return causes your power heads to work harder and fail quicker.

Sincerly; A guy who wasted about 450-500 bucks because he was lied to about how well UGFs work.


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

You will need three things to properly setup for a moderate tank. Lighting has already been said. Substrait. I use half flourite half black gravel. Make sure its at leas 3-4" deep for proper root development. And the most important of all TEST KITS. Without the test kits you will run into problems that will make you never want to set up a planted tank again. You need at a minimum NO3, NO4, PO4, pH, gH, and kH. You will be shooting for these parameters. 
Nitrates 5-10 ppm 
Phosphates 0.5-1.0 ppm 
Iron 0.1-0.3 ppm 
Potassium 10-20 ppm 
If they are fluctuating you will have significant algae blooms and other growth problems. If your water is very soft you will have to dose with calcium and magnesium as buffers. A lot of this is also dependent on how much lighting you plan on having. The more light, the more important these parameters become. If you dont plan on running more than 2 wpg I wouldnt even add any kind of co2 in the tank. co2 is nothing to play around with if you want a stable tank. Fluctuating co2 levels will quickly throw your parameters off and lessen the uptake of nutrients by your plants. This makes very favorable conditions for algae not to mention cyanobacterias. Never use UGF for planted tanks. The best would be larger canister filters or hang on back filters that do not aeirate the water unnessisarily and force your co2 from your water. I usually rely strictly upon biological filtration in these.

Jesus, who wants to read all this anyway. Hope it helps.


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