# MY NEW MOTORO RAYS



## manfish (Nov 22, 2005)

I just got these wonderful creatures this morning and here are a few pics of them getting ready to take the plunge into their new home! Smallest is 5 inches, then a 6 incher and the largest is 7 inches. hope you enjoy and get back to me with what you think!


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

You're putting them into a 55gal???


----------



## RB 32 (Mar 2, 2005)

Nice looking Rays..


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

They look good, but not to spoil your hopes there, but one large one would need a 30" wide tank, 3 are gunna need a mammoth tank there.

Do NOT cramp them, sensitive fish should not be cramped. If you cramp them, they will die.


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Not to mention the fact that those fish are already longer (with tail) than the tank is wide...if it's a standard 55 gallon. Those guys need to be in at least a 75 gallon and that will only do for a very short while. You'd be better off starting with a 72" x 24" since you got three.

Not only will they be cramped which can lead to stress, but they can also develop problems with their tails from being in too small of a tank.

Didn't you see the responses you got to the question you asked about Rays?


----------



## freakgasolinefightaccident (Jan 3, 2005)

Good luck there, let us know how this turns out...


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

dracofish said:


> Not to mention the fact that those fish are already longer (with tail) than the tank is wide...if it's a standard 55 gallon. Those guys need to be in at least a 75 gallon and that will only do for a very short while. You'd be better off starting with a 72" x 24" since you got three.
> 
> Not only will they be cramped which can lead to stress, but they can also develop problems with their tails from being in too small of a tank.
> 
> Didn't you see the responses you got to the question you asked about Rays?


Sadly, speaking from direct experience, people who purpousfully don't take good advice often wont until they lose a prized fish.

IF your planing to "upgrade", better make it in no less then 2 months. You better hope you have a miraculous cycle time, these guys are sensitive to the nitrate cycle as with puffers.

I'm fairly confused why you got three though. They are sensitive fish. Not only can you take care of one from the get-go, but you're not even sure if your experience is good enough to keep these (otherwise you wouldn't of asked). Generally when people buy 'touchy' fish, they dont head out and buy a buntch, they start out with very little just to make sure that they can keep them.


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Unfortunately, I've learned that with Rays people tend to start with more than one, or get one and then buy a bunch more. Some are lucky and all make it, but there's a quite a few that end up losing them. I've made plenty of mistakes with Rays and I try to use my mistakes to help others so they don't make the same. It's sad that not many listen. It's even more depressing when you consider how rare some species are getting.

I always recommend to anyone that has never kept Rays before to start out with one (maybe two if the starter tank is big enough) and if they can keep that for 6 months without incident, then think about more. But why more anyways? Most species of Stingray get HUGE and require BIG tanks. I used to have quite a few Rays and then realized that two is more than enough for me because in time they'll need something like 96" x 48" just for them.

If this guy's Motoros make it (and I hope they do), he's going to need a tank of at least 96" x 36" to keep them comfortably for life.


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Yeah one thing that gets me too is the price. I mean all rays are spendy, you have got to have money to burn to buy three.

For now, my stingrays are limited to my brothers butterfly loach, and my pinup of a "Crocodile" Pearl on my wall :laugh: . Soon as I can get a larger tank (at least 72x24) I hope to pick up a motoro or similar species, I really love leo's, but I doubt I will ever have a tank suitable for those


----------



## Fastmover13 (Jan 24, 2006)

Tibs said:


> Yeah one thing that gets me too is the price. I mean all rays are spendy, you have got to have money to burn to buy three.


 This is what I was just thinking...what lfs sells rays and doesn't quize the buyer about aquarium size?


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Some species, like Retics, often sold as teacups can be found for around $40, so they're often the victims. Three good sized Motoros, however, can drop about $100 or more each...more especially if you pay retail prices.

As far as Leos go, if things keep going the way they seem to be regarding exporting...wild ones will keep getting rarer and rarer (and there's only several known breeding pairs in captivity right now). It's because Black Rays are being heavily quota-ed from export. I suppose it's a good thing because the fish keeping industry really does wreak havoc on native populations if there isn't a captive bred one to sustain the industry. I wouldn't be surprised if other species follow suit since it seems that everyone and their brother wants to try their hand at keeping them.

I've had some offers to buy my Leos but there's no way I'd sell them, especially not now. I only hope that someday they'll become one of those breeding pairs.


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Fastmover13 said:


> Yeah one thing that gets me too is the price. I mean all rays are spendy, you have got to have money to burn to buy three.


 This is what I was just thinking...what lfs sells rays and doesn't quize the buyer about aquarium size?
[/quote]

Most LFS's. Pet shops, for the most part, do not care about the well being of the fish. They are looking to make a sale. Thats why I will never really take information from pet shops. As a pet shop employee I like to think I help people as much as possible and I don't send people home with pacu (I've made a consciencensious effort to rid our store of pacu, and other large ass fish). Most pet store are just consider you a sale.

If the motoros are theoretically $100, do you think they are gunna say " No that tank is too small for one."? No what they are going to say is " Sure have all three, they will work great in there." That three hundred more bucks in the register.

My store has 2 3" retics right now, $45.99, they are great and I love watching them. The other day some lil eight year old and his mommy wanted one for his 20H, so I pointed him to the Swordtails







From the sounds of it, those swords will need all the luck they can get.

Drac, your Leo's are amazing. How large will they have to be before you may breed them? Do you have plans on breeding them?


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

I'm not sure exactly how large they have to be before becoming sexually mature. Motoros usually mature at around 10" for males and 15" for females and I know Leos mature at larger sizes than Motoros. My male is about 10" now and his claspers have only started to grow.

I don't have specific plans on breeding them but I hope someday that they do. Breeding Rays isn't really as simple as sticking a mature male and female together. Too bad it's not that easy. If it were, they wouldn't be getting so rare in the wild. Some species are easier to breed than others. I know a few people that have breed Retics and Motoros, and a couple that have bred Hystrix and Humerosas. I can only think of a couple that have bred Leos.


----------



## Fastmover13 (Jan 24, 2006)

In my experiance the pet shop that is specialized enough to offer rays is also very picky about where their specimins go. I am sure this is not the case every where. I guess I am lucky to have very profesional LFS in my area.

For the 300 hun he dropped on the rays he is about half way to the right size tank to keep them.


----------



## dracofish (Jul 13, 2003)

Fastmover13 said:


> In my experiance the pet shop that is specialized enough to offer rays is also very picky about where their specimins go. I am sure this is not the case every where. I guess I am lucky to have very profesional LFS in my area.
> 
> For the 300 hun he dropped on the rays he is about half way to the right size tank to keep them.


I can only think of a couple of stores that I've been to (NJ and NY) that offered Rays _and_ took care of them. However, upon purchasing from one, I was never questioned as to requirements and tank size. The stores I go to locally in CT carry Retics every once in a while and they're always in dead and dying condition.

And half way? He put them in a 55gal, he's gonna need something like 96 x 36 at least for life. They should already be in an 18" wide tank to start and that won't last long at all. I would start with a 72 x 24 and then upgrade a year or so later when needed to the 36" wide tank.


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

Fastmover13 said:


> In my experiance the pet shop that is specialized enough to offer rays is also very picky about where their specimins go. I am sure this is not the case every where. I guess I am lucky to have very profesional LFS in my area.
> 
> For the 300 hun he dropped on the rays he is about half way to the right size tank to keep them.


I have a very nice LFS that I can go to also. But as with any business, they are looking for money.

And as draco said it is far from half way. I would say minium a 240 or so gallon tank (96x24x24), and that will be cramped, considering that motoros get around 18" in disc diameter. For THREE motoros, he should be looking at an indoor pond.


----------



## manfish (Nov 22, 2005)

thanks for the concerns....i will be upgrading asap! just waiting for my tax return check!


----------



## benJii (Feb 17, 2005)

manfish said:


> thanks for the concerns....i will be upgrading asap! just waiting for my tax return check!


and what may I ask are you upgrading to? If it is anything less then 240g you will need to upgrade again. Motoros can get around 20" disc and a probably another 10 or more for the tail. The more you cramp em, the more likely they will die.


----------

