# just a dumb poll



## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

i say yes


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## DrewBoOty (Nov 23, 2002)

this wont end well


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## Fresh (Feb 8, 2004)

*edit since i have to comment on everything


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

Fresh said:


> you sure do make some stupid threads dont u


 this is actually a very good thread

i do believe in god
since it was brainwashed into my head since i was born
but i am very scientific so i totally believe in evolution
\but i lean more towards scientific any day of the week


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## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

I beleive in god............i figure why not take alittle time to beleive. If you die and their is no afterlife or god then what did you lose? You are gone and it didnt matter. On the other hand if you go through life denouncing god, then die and find out you were wrong HELLO eternity of torment. I think I would rather play it safe and live a semi good life and give thanks to god for giving it to me.


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

sorry if its a dumb poll just wanted to see wut ppl thought


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## Ms_Nattereri (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, I do.

Keep this one civil guys.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i m a little buzzed right now so here is goes man, holy jesus i think may be and alien half breed, caue thats the only way a virgin is gonna get pregnat , is form that alien probe thingy, thats how the guy can walk on water too, cause hes a half breed man, then they beamed her back down here and out poppde jesues

that brang alien teck nology here to make one loaf of bread into a feast man, thats how he fed all those people, then in the desert he had flash backs of telo pathicly takin to his pop on panets what ever and no the devil like the good book says


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

There is no god.


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## K fizzly (Aug 27, 2004)

lmao freez ur funny when ur buzzed...lol


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

mr.freez said:


> i m a little buzzed right now so here is goes man, holy jesus i think may be and alien half breed, caue thats the only way a virgin is gonna get pregnat , is form that alien probe thingy, thats how the guy can walk on water too, cause hes a half breed man, then they beamed her back down here and out poppde jesues
> 
> that brang alien teck nology here to make one loaf of bread into a feast man, thats how he fed all those people, then in the desert he had flash backs of telo pathicly takin to his pop on panets what ever and no the devil like the good book says










chuckle


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## shutter13 (Jun 23, 2004)

i just dont know anymore... too much science to disprove everything the bible says.... but then again, that is our faith


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

shutter13 said:


> i just dont know anymore... too much science to disprove everything the bible says.... but then again, that is our faith


 scienc will prove my theroy


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

here comes another debate.


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

Big negative on the god and any kind of supernatural. Atheist here. Although I've been more agnostic since reading the bible. That's a damn good read, believe it or not.


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## Jebus (Feb 29, 2004)

mr.freez said:


> i m a little buzzed right now so here is goes man, holy jesus i think may be and alien half breed, caue thats the only way a virgin is gonna get pregnat , is form that alien probe thingy, thats how the guy can walk on water too, cause hes a half breed man, then they beamed her back down here and out poppde jesues
> 
> that brang alien teck nology here to make one loaf of bread into a feast man, thats how he fed all those people, then in the desert he had flash backs of telo pathicly takin to his pop on panets what ever and no the devil like the good book says


 He also turned a river into blood.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

i hate religion.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

http://www.greatlie.com/en/news.cfm?action=detail&id=45

VERY interesting book read, with sources. The webpage has samples.


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

Peacock said:


> i hate religion.


 Me too :nod:


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

*DaisyDarko* said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > i hate religion.
> ...


 thats why im so attracted to you.


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## Atlanta Braves Baby! (Mar 12, 2003)

I think theres a god


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## BoomerSub (Jun 23, 2003)

No god, no devil, no supernatural sh*t, no reincarnation, none of that. You're meat, an overgrown, hairless monkey, and when you die everything goes black and you're worm food. Alien life certainly exists in some form or another, (it almost has to, given the number of other stars, and therefore planets) even if it's just microbes. In any case, they don't look like this and come here for the express purpose of sticking things up your ass. _Transmetropolitan_'s Spider Jerusalem said it best:


> This heretofore unknown alien species has crossed entire galaxies to abduct you on a basis more regular than train timetables. Correct?
> CHARLATAN: Yes...
> SPIDER:Okay. What I don't follow is the actual truth you attach to these events. You claim that their continual theiving of you, their probing of your ass, fractionating of your brain and steamcleaning of your testicles is an attempt to make contact.
> 
> Well, you see, it indicates few _other_ things to me. I mean, either you have the most beautiful asshole in the cosmos - or there is no intellegent life in the universe.


-PK


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## killarbee (Jan 23, 2004)

no god for me ... i believe in Amstel From Amsterdam


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## delta (Jul 23, 2004)

no god
i think the ancient people saw creatures (aliens) that they thought were gods due to tech advantage and thats how the god thing started. They had no way to explain them other than they were gods.


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

No God, for a lot of good reasons


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## WolfFish (Jun 30, 2004)

no, not in the slightlest, but that cheese toasty almost converted me, best proof yet.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

I'm not sure if there is a God. I seem to see him more as an imaginative inspirational fictional figure that you create in your heart and mind to give you some sort of motivation or keep you feeling secure about life. He's like that imaginary friend you had when you were young, someone who you thought was always there to "talk to" or "play with" because you felt this imaginary friend kept you company when you were home alone or had no one else to interact with. Thats what I see God as, a fictional imaginative character that you can run to when things are down.

If I did believe that there was a God, I'd believe he'd be of a "Puck-ish" type, a sort of prankster. One that likes to set you against all odds, then sits back and watches the events happen. Once in a while, he'll pop up and help you out, but thats after you've called him up a million times.


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## yorkshire (Jul 27, 2004)

There is no God, he was just invented for those people who are scared of dieing :nod: 
And so that people can pass judgement on others


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

shutter13 said:


> i just dont know anymore... too much science to disprove everything the bible says.... but then again, that is our faith


 just curious, what exactly does science disprove? examples please


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## Gordeez (Sep 21, 2003)

I say no to the god thing! I agree, People who are afraid to die and think there going somewhere else say it to feel better about themselves!
I dont do that religion thing, But Sometimes, when Im drunk, I pray!
Yea fockerS, I pray! I pray that Jack Daniels will live on forever!


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## Blacksheep (Dec 11, 2003)

Yep, I believe in God. That or I am really in the wrong line of work!









Jeffrey


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## Death in #'s (Apr 29, 2003)

PastorJeff said:


> Yep, I believe in God. That or I am really in the wrong line of work!
> 
> 
> 
> ...










dam jeff u always make me laugh


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## Burf (Nov 3, 2003)

BoomerSub said:


> No god, no devil, no supernatural sh*t, no reincarnation, none of that. You're meat, an overgrown, hairless monkey, and when you die everything goes black and you're worm food. Alien life certainly exists in some form or another, (it almost has to, given the number of other stars, and therefore planets) even if it's just microbes.


-PK [/QUOTE]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I'm by no means anti-religion, but i do find it hard to understand how anyone can think supernatural people/events are real. I've got no problem with people believing in it but its just not for me.

I believe in science, things just make much more sence.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

i think there is, but he is not what catholics or muslims make him out to be..
if you think about things like the levels of H2O you need has to be between 19 and 23 (not sure exact numbers been a while) or you couldn't breath to survive, and that thier is a thin margin for the formula of the diffrent gas's they need to be at in order for thier to be life on this planet and we are the only planet that is just shy of being like mars or venus, science may explain that but science didnt necesarily make it so.

i think that george (not bush, i dont know his name so i call him george) set the stage for us and gave us free will, and through out all the bullshit humanity has been through we haven't self destructed yet, which to me is a miracle within itself, and there is not a day that goes buy where i am in shock that i survived my life this far. lastly science has yet to and will probably never come up with a logical explanation on where our soul comes from.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

j_burf said:


> BoomerSub said:
> 
> 
> > No god, no devil, no supernatural sh*t, no reincarnation, none of that. You're meat, an overgrown, hairless monkey, and when you die everything goes black and you're worm food. Alien life certainly exists in some form or another, (it almost has to, given the number of other stars, and therefore planets) even if it's just microbes.
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself!

I'm by no means anti-religion, but i do find it hard to understand how anyone can think supernatural people/events are real. I've got no problem with people believing in it but its just not for me.

I believe in science, things just make much more sence. [/quote]
well it seems that beleivers and non-beleivers are quite alike in someways

as a beleiver in god, i cannot understand how ppl can beleive the universe came into existance into such perfection as it is by just a random explosion or accident.


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

I am not afraid of death, so that leaves me out of the reason why I beleive there is a god. If someone gave me a loaded gun I would shoot myself in the head. So when you say "They belive in that becuase they are afraid of death" And why would people make up such a hard religion to follow such as Christianity. Read some of the rules. Its becuase of the rewards after you die.

Also on teh insult part of this. there is no need to insult people of look down on them for their beliefs.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Chunker-2000 said:


> If someone gave me a loaded gun I would shoot myself in the head.










cmon man, i enjoyed your last post in the other thread, dont f*ck it up now with this sh*t..







sometimes i am convinced that the whole world has gone retarded on me


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

Sorry, I was just pointing out that death is not the only reason why there are religions. I guess that was to strong of a point made.


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## Jebus (Feb 29, 2004)

Markosaur said:


> j_burf said:
> 
> 
> > BoomerSub said:
> ...


well it seems that beleivers and non-beleivers are quite alike in someways

as a beleiver in god, i cannot understand how ppl can beleive the universe came into existance into such perfection as it is by just a random explosion or accident.







[/quote]
Perfection eh. if there was a god do you think if he had the power to create the universe he would stand idely by and let people like george bush accidentally bomb hospitals that he thought were bomb factorys.


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## psychofish (Jun 5, 2004)

Drew said:


> this wont end well


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

Jebus said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> > j_burf said:
> ...


Perfection eh. if there was a god do you think if he had the power to create the universe he would stand idely by and let people like george bush accidentally bomb hospitals that he thought were bomb factorys. [/quote]
It would take too long to go into detail, but the explanation to that can be found in the bible.

and remember, the Queen wants us to keep it civilized


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Jebus said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> > j_burf said:
> ...


Perfection eh. if there was a god do you think if he had the power to create the universe he would stand idely by and let people like george bush accidentally bomb hospitals that he thought were bomb factorys. [/quote]







free will can be a bitch


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## Gumby (Aug 13, 2004)

BoomerSub said:


> No god, no devil, no supernatural sh*t, no reincarnation, none of that. You're meat, an overgrown, hairless monkey, and when you die everything goes black and you're worm food. Alien life certainly exists in some form or another, (it almost has to, given the number of other stars, and therefore planets) even if it's just microbes. In any case, they don't look like this and come here for the express purpose of sticking things up your ass.


 Exactly my views. Couldn't have said it bettter.

Damn, PK, the more posts of yours I read the more it justifies me voting for you in the MOTM poll.


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## janus (Oct 28, 2004)

no God.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Im Agnostic.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

There's no god.

If others want to believe in it, no problem at all, as long as they don't try to convince me: if you can't prove it with *factual* evidence, don't bother.


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## Husky_Jim (May 26, 2003)

No Gods! No Masters!


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## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2004)

"that the world was an accident of science"

im not so sure science stated it as an accident.

i think the "new" religions will fall somewhere in the middle of both. eventually there will be a school of thought combining the two and saying something like. the big bang was caused by god so on and so forth..

and if there inst.. i've found myself a cult to start







to me!!!


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

Yes, that idea that the big bang was cuased by god is nothing new.


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## *DaisyDarko* (Mar 17, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> There's no god.
> 
> If others want to believe in it, no problem at all, as long as they don't try to convince me: if you can't prove it with *factual* evidence, don't bother.
> [snapback]782122[/snapback]​


yep, my sentiments exactly!


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

Not going to comment.

Just want to say I could hardley understand what the question was.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

PastorJeff said:


> Yep, I believe in God. That or I am really in the wrong line of work!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is just how I feel. I've been playing organ in church for many years now, and believe me, I've seen every sort of hypocrisy associated with religion. There are times though when the music just takes over, and I know that there is something beyond all the bullshit in this world. However, even if one believes in God, I feel they owe it to themselves to question how so many evil things can go down in this world. The Holocaust immediately comes to mind. How could God let that happen?


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

How can people not believe life was triggered accidentally? Think about it, time is infinite, so that gives plenty of chances for accidents to happen, even if it leads to such detailed perfection. Its bound to happen at one point or another. It sounds to me that quite a few peeps believe in god only because they fear they will be condemned to hell in in case he really does exist. No offense, but if god was real, you think he would want to let you into heaven because you only chose to accept him so you dont go to hell? Im not trying to stir up any heat but I personally refuse to live life kissing some mighty being's ass just so I can get into heaven and continue to kiss his ass for eternity in order to avoid hell. That sounds like torture to me.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

The idea that god created and sacrificed himself, to himself, in order to prevent himself from sending us all to hell because of the way he made us, is complete bullshit.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Fargo said:


> This is just how I feel. I've been playing organ in church for many years now, and believe me, I've seen every sort of hypocrisy associated with religion. There are times though when the music just takes over, and I know that there is something beyond all the bullshit in this world. However, even if one believes in God, I feel they owe it to themselves to question how so many evil things can go down in this world. The Holocaust immediately comes to mind. How could God let that happen?
> [snapback]782690[/snapback]​


imo..god gave us free will, even if that free will allows someone to try and commit genocide, it is still that same freewill that enabled hitler and nazi's to be stopped, alot of people assume it is gods place not to allow bad things to happen..it is not his place to not allow or to allow anything and that is by his own choice and why he created life and gave us free will in the 1st place..and to this day the majority of mans intentions is divine in thier hearts..and thats why he hasn't pulled the plug yet and when he does, i do feel like it says it will be in the bible, he will come like a thief in the night, when we least expect it.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

stupid threead


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> The idea that god created and sacrificed himself, to himself, in order to prevent himself from sending us all to hell because of the way he made us, is complete bullshit.
> [snapback]782746[/snapback]​


 well if you look at it like a 12 year old school girl would it would seem like bullshit wouldn't it..just annoyed how you put it because its kind of twisted..i feel god created him self in the flesh to experience fleshly temptations, like a hard on when you see a chick with nice legs in a short plaid skirt, and the rage when you see unjust being done to the just, to better understand why it is hard for us to resist temptation...in the process he tryed to spread his word and lead people to a way of life that he intended, dureing that process, jealosy and rage were then turned on him, but after he experienced these feelings first hand, is why before he died he said "forgive then, they dont know anybetter", and so you have the trinidy, god in heaven, the holy spirit which is a piece of him in all of us(that thing that tells you not to tell your date you love her ust to get a piece of ass), and jesus, who is the only reason to this date that he hasn't pulled the plug..

why is it so easy to believe that a cell can split it self to creat two lives, but god cannot split himself, and there be a jesus..a god in human form.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Because there is evidence and proof and reason as to why cells split. There is nothing but fear driving a belief in the divine.


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

I believe in God and Christianity is not blind faith.

The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible. We have listed statements on this page that are consistent with known scientific facts. Many of them were listed in the Bible hundreds or even thousands of years before being recorded elsewhere. Many concepts and notes on this page are adapted from ideas and statements that appear in The DEFENDER'S Study Bible.[1]

Statements Consistent With Paleontology
Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. We think you will agree that 1½ chapters about dinosaurs is a lot-since most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible. (Actually reading the Bible would help, though. ) Click this sentence to see our Dinosaurs page if you would like more information in this subject area. 
Statements Consistent With Astronomy
The Bible frequently refers to the great number of stars in the heavens. Here are two examples.

Genesis 22:17
Blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

Jeremiah 33:22
"As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me." 
Even today, scientists admit that they do not know how many stars there are. Only about 3,000 can be seen with the naked eye. We have seen estimates of 1021 stars-which is a lot of stars.[2] (The number of grains of sand on the earth's seashores is estimated to be 1025. As scientists discover more stars, wouldn't it be interesting to discover that these two numbers match?)

The Bible also says that each star is unique.

1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 
All stars look alike to the naked eye.* Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.[1] (*Note: We understand that people can perceive some slight difference in color and apparent brightness when looking at stars with the naked eye, but we would not expect a person living in the first century A.D. to claim they differ from one another.)

The Bible describes the precision of movement in the universe.

Jeremiah 31:35,36
Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
"If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever."

The Bible describes the suspension of the Earth in space.

Job 26:7
He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.

Statements Consistent With Meteorology
The Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere.

Ecclesiastes 1:6
The wind goes toward the south,
And turns around to the north;
The wind whirls about continually,
And comes again on its circuit.

The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics.

Job 28:25
To establish a weight for the wind,
And apportion the waters by measure. 
The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world's hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth.[1] (If you are a physics enthusiast, please ignore our omission of the terms mass, gravity, and density from this comment.)

Statements Consistent With Biology
The book of Leviticus (written prior to 1400 BC) describes the value of blood.

Leviticus 17:11
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.' 
The blood carries water and nourishment to every cell, maintains the body's temperature, and removes the waste material of the body's cells. The blood also carries oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. In 1616, William Harvey discovered that blood circulation is the key factor in physical life-confirming what the Bible revealed 3,000 years earlier.[1]

The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism.

Genesis 1:11,12
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:21
So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:25
And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 
The phrase "according to its kind" occurs repeatedly, stressing the reproductive integrity of each kind of animal and plant. Today we know this occurs because all of these reproductive systems are programmed by their genetic codes.[1]

The Bible describes the chemical nature of flesh.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.

It is a proven fact that a person's mental and spiritual health is strongly correlated with physical health.[1] The Bible revealed this to us with these statements (and others) written by King Solomon about 950 BC.

Proverbs 12:4
An excellent wife is the crown of her husband,
But she who causes shame is like rottenness in his bones.

Proverbs 14:30
A sound heart is life to the body,
But envy is rottenness to the bones.

Proverbs 15:30
The light of the eyes rejoices the heart,
And a good report makes the bones healthy.

Proverbs 16:24
Pleasant words are like a honeycomb,
Sweetness to the soul and health to the bones.

Proverbs 17:22
A merry heart does good, like medicine,
But a broken spirit dries the bones. 
Statements Consistent With Anthropology
We have cave paintings and other evidence that people inhabited caves. The Bible also describes cave men.

Job 30:5,6
They were driven out from among men,
They shouted at them as at a thief.
They had to live in the clefts of the valleys,
In caves of the earth and the rocks. 
Note that these were not ape-men, but descendants of those who scattered from Babel. They were driven from the community by those tribes who competed successfully for the more desirable regions of the earth. Then for some reason they deteriorated mentally, physically, and spiritually.[1] (Go into a bad part of your town and you will see this concept in action today.)

Statements Consistent With Hydrology
The bible includes reasonably complete descriptions of the hydrologic cycle.[3]

Psalm 135:7
He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
He makes lightning for the rain;
He brings the wind out of His treasuries.

Jeremiah 10:13
When He utters His voice,
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
"And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth.
He makes lightning for the rain,
He brings the wind out of His treasuries." 
In these verses you can see several phases of the hydrologic cycle-the worldwide processes of evaporation, translation aloft by atmospheric circulation, condensation with electrical discharges, and precipitation.[1]

Job 36:27-29
For He draws up drops of water,
Which distill as rain from the mist,
Which the clouds drop down
And pour abundantly on man.
Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds,
The thunder from His canopy? 
This simple verse has remarkable scientific insight. The drops of water which eventually pour down as rain first become vapor and then condense to tiny liquid water droplets in the clouds. These finally coalesce into drops large enough to overcome the updrafts that suspend them in the air.[1]

The Bible describes the recirculation of water.

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the rivers run into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full;
To the place from which the rivers come,
There they return again.

Isaiah 55:10
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,

The Bible refers to the surprising amount of water that can be held as condensation in clouds.

Job 26:8
He binds up the water in His thick clouds,
Yet the clouds are not broken under it.

Job 37:11
Also with moisture He saturates the thick clouds;
He scatters His bright clouds.

Hydrothermal vents[4] are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC-more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science.

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Job 38:16
Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths? 
We discuss the "fountains of the great deep" further in our Creation Versus Evolution page.

Statements Consistent With Geology
The Bible describes the Earth's crust (along with a comment on astronomy).

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus says the LORD:
"If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD." 
Although some scientists claim that they have now measured the size of the universe, it is interesting to note that every human attempt to drill through the earth's crust to the plastic mantle beneath has, thus far, ended in failure.[1]

The Bible described the shape of the earth centuries before people thought that the earth was spherical.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. 
The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated "circuit," or "compass" (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched-not something that is flat or square.

The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere in this book On the Heavens.

This brings up an important historical note related to this topic. Many people are aware of the conflict between Galileo and the Roman Catholic Pope, Paul V. After publishing A Dialogue on the Two Principal Systems of the World, Galileo was summoned to Rome, where he was forced to renounce his findings. (At that time, "theologians" of the Roman Catholic Church maintained that the Earth was the center of the universe, and to assert otherwise was deemed heretical.)

We could not find any place in the Bible that claims that the Earth is flat, or that it is the center of the universe. History shows that this conflict, which took place at the time of the Inquisition, was part of a power struggle. As a result, scientific and biblical knowledge became casualties-an effect we still feel to this day.

Statements Consistent With Physics
The Bible suggests the presence of nuclear processes like those we associate with nuclear weaponry. This is certainly not something that could have been explained in 67 AD using known scientific principles (when Peter wrote the following verse).

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

The television is a practical (if not always worthwhile ) device that uses electromagnetic waves (which transmit its video signal). The Bible contains passages that describe something like television-something that allows everyone on earth see a single event. (Note: such passages typically refer to the end of time. It may not be long before all of us learn for sure whether the Bible is true or not.)

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 11:9-11
Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 
Things In The Bible That Science Can Not Explain
The purpose of this page is not to explain what a great science text the Bible is, but to show that it is consistent with scientific facts. Still, the Bible mentions some things that we can not explain. Yet, if God is really God, He should have the ability to do some things we can not explain.

In the last 100 years (and especially in the last ten) scientists discovered many proofs that confirm the Bible's accuracy. Since these proofs support the accuracy of the text we can understand scientifically, it makes sense to trust the Bible's text that we can not yet understand. (For example, how many people knew what hydrothermal vents were 30 years ago?)


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Because there is evidence and proof and reason as to why cells split. There is nothing but fear driving a belief in the divine.
> [snapback]782817[/snapback]​


i guess it is how your heart will allow you to accept it, which is part of the beauty of the free will that he gave us, the gift of free will is ours even if it is to choose to not to accept god.. the same as it was for hitler to choose to kill the jews..ect

but i wouldn't base my belief on a single organised religion and let man instill the fear of god in me, he is there for you and everyone to get to know individually, and regardless of what scientific facts you provide, you will never be forfilled or satisfied untill you know him, and it doesn't take a catholic or for that matter any church to know him.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

You can save your quotes from the bible. None of those are proof of what is being claimed by them. All are taken out of context. The bible, and other 'holy' texts have ALWAYS been used to prove whatever people want it to prove. You can't say that a description of a big animal (who lived at the same time as humans) describes proof of a dinosaur. That's got the be the most vague assumption I have ever seen. You can't say that God breathing life into dust accurately describes chemical make-up either. Or that 'according to its kind' is the same as genetics.

Organized religion is a facade for the power struggle of early charlatans. Unfortunately, they did their job well and were able to satisfy and placate the fears and questions of early people. The 'need' to beleive in a 'higher power' is a direct result of the animalistic fear and uncertainty of people.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Organized religion is a facade for the power struggle of early charlatans. Unfortunately, they did their job well and were able to satisfy and placate the fears and questions of early people. The 'need' to beleive in a 'higher power' is a direct result of the animalistic fear and uncertainty of people.
> [snapback]783110[/snapback]​


i don't "need" to believe in anything, i "choose" to believe in god and the only thing i fear is myself. in all actuality i am the last person that should believe in god, as much that i have done which goes completely against god, and to this day as many times as i am tempted to put someone through the floor or cheat on my wife, or add on $3000. to a job just because i know i can get away with it.. when im at my worst and feel like god should be turning his back on me, somethig tells me, then is when he is closest to me, i also believe in karma, to me karma and hell go hand in hand, its all about choice..i refuse to let anything cause me to push god out of my life regardless if things are going my way or not, because without him, all thier is is my demons, and they i do fear.


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry about the previous thread i posted but i have a quick question: doesent the bible state that god created the world in seven days? well how do you expalin the millons of years of our evolution?

Spoken in the words of my biology teacher: "you dont have to believe in evolution, but you gotta find a way to explain our metamorphis from a monkey into a human


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Organized religion is a facade for the power struggle of early charlatans. Unfortunately, they did their job well and were able to satisfy and placate the fears and questions of early people. The 'need' to beleive in a 'higher power' is a direct result of the animalistic fear and uncertainty of people.
> [snapback]783110[/snapback]​


Sorta right. Christianity was used in many civilizations to keep order among the people. How else could you control a warring civilization like the Vikings after they'd conquered a huge part of the world?

What better way to keep rule in a society that can't afford to incarcerate able-bodied people, like in the early American colonies?

Personally I think western religions have been used for more evil than good and that's one of the reasons I don't follow a religion. I think we've got it all wrong and we'll be judged on our actions not what religion we follow.


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## tramca (Jul 17, 2003)

I don't believe there is a god. Each to their own opinion though. 
Surely god would not let his people suffer as they do?


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

rchan11 said:


> I believe in God and Christianity is not blind faith.
> 
> The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible. We have listed statements on this page that are consistent with known scientific facts. Many of them were listed in the Bible hundreds or even thousands of years before being recorded elsewhere. Many concepts and notes on this page are adapted from ideas and statements that appear in The DEFENDER'S Study Bible.[1]
> 
> ...


If you're going to copy and paste at least give credit to the authors or post a link.
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml


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## Ralphie917 (May 3, 2004)

-


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> Sorta right. Christianity was used in many civilizations to keep order among the people. How else could you control a warring civilization like the Vikings after they'd conquered a huge part of the world?
> 
> What better way to keep rule in a society that can't afford to incarcerate able-bodied people, like in the early American colonies?
> 
> ...


No. This is NOT limited to western religions. It applies to all of them, especially Islam.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> No. This is NOT limited to western religions. It applies to all of them, especially Islam.
> [snapback]783769[/snapback]​


Islam is a western religion.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> Islam is a western religion.
> [snapback]783837[/snapback]​


umm... not its not. LOL.

FEAR makes BELIEVERS.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Peacock said:


> umm... not its not. LOL.
> FEAR makes BELIEVERS.
> [snapback]783846[/snapback]​


http://www.mrdowling.com/605westr.html

Scroll down to the title: 3 Great Western Religions
http://religion-cults.com/Islam/islam.htm

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are Abrahamic religions.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

"Islam was founded in 622 AD by Mohammed the Prophet, in the "Hegira", "Hijra", flight or migration from Mecca to Medina, Arabia, and marks the beginning of Islam and the Muslim calendar. "

enough said.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are Abrahamic religions.
> [snapback]783858[/snapback]​


This is why it's a Western religion. You're thinking in terms of location not philosophy.


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## Sheppard (Jul 8, 2004)

shutter13 said:


> i just dont know anymore... too much science to disprove everything the bible says.... but then again, that is our faith
> [snapback]778736[/snapback]​


exactly...science proves too much no a days,,,i believe all that religous crap happened way back when, cuz there is proof of that.

what i dont understand is how the hell does a virgin get pregnant?
how do you manage to split a sea down the middle so you can walk across it?
how do you manage to get 2 of every animal on a little raft that you built out of peices of wood?

i sorta beleive in god and sorta not....but i tell my mother i beleive in god so i don't get smacked upside the head.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Sheppard said:


> exactly...science proves too much no a days,,,i believe all that religous crap happened way back when, cuz there is proof of that.
> 
> what i dont understand is how the hell does a virgin get pregnant?
> how do you manage to split a sea down the middle so you can walk across it?
> ...


I think alot of it has been exagerated over time. Kinda like how the fish that got away gets bigger and bigger.

If David Blaine where alive at that time it'd be him that everyone worships.


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## Fargo (Jun 8, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> The idea that god created and sacrificed himself, to himself, in order to prevent himself from sending us all to hell because of the way he made us, is complete bullshit.
> [snapback]782746[/snapback]​


Actually, one could look at it from this angle. Man's responsibility is to acquire those divine attributes that belong to God(not God as some anthropomorphic, royal figure sitting on a throne, but God as a state of perfect being in the present). The purpose of man acquiring divine attributes would simply be to make the world a better place. Of course, someone like Jesus has achieved this state, yet performs the ultimate sacrifice. Even though he is above all humanity, he dies for humanity in order to redeem it. This does not mean Jesus is God, but rather that he is God-like. IMO martyrdom is the greatest sacrifice. We choose whether to believe it or not, but I don't believe we are going to hell for not believing - that's just an attempt to have power through spreading fear. Ultimately belief is an individual thing, since most religions have corrupted themselves in one way or another.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

As far as people who say "I can have my beliefs, and you can have yours" go, you are wrong. There are two religions who, from their start, have been inherently dangerous. Christianity and Islam. They are the only two significant religions who, by their nature, impose themselves upon others. This is unacceptable.


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## remyo (Aug 26, 2004)

i dont believe in god i think if you believe you are week and stupid


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

there's no god, you're meat and you're going to get rotted, get over it


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

i give up, i can almost guarentee im dealing with teenagers, which is understandable..no one could tell me sh*t when i was that age either.


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Liquid said:


> i give up, i can almost guarentee im dealing with teenagers, which is understandable..no one could tell me sh*t when i was that age either.
> [snapback]784293[/snapback]​


Why is it that the people here must be teenagers, simply because they see through the fallacies of religion? Because I know you weren't refering to all the people who say that *do *beleive in a 'god'.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Why is it that the people here must be teenagers, simply because they see through the fallacies of religion? Because I know you weren't refering to all the people who say that *do *beleive in a 'god'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


because of posts like "you are meat and then you rot" and " if you believe in god, it means you are weak and whatever", i dont believe you are a teenager, but i can relate to being young and just not giveing a f*ck..things change when you get older.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i beleive in


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## dwarfcat (Sep 21, 2004)

o snap its eric said:


> sorry about the previous thread i posted but i have a quick question: doesent the bible state that god created the world in seven days? well how do you expalin the millons of years of our evolution?
> 
> Spoken in the words of my biology teacher: "you dont have to believe in evolution, but you gotta find a way to explain our metamorphis from a monkey into a human
> [snapback]783644[/snapback]​


It also doesnt say how long those 7 days are......1 day could be 100,000's of years


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## WilliamBradley (Nov 23, 2003)

Liquid said:


> because of posts like "you are meat and then you rot" and " if you believe in god, it means you are weak and whatever", i dont believe you are a teenager, but i can relate to being young and just not giveing a f*ck..things change when you get older.
> [snapback]784420[/snapback]​


I am not saying you're meat and you rot because I don't give a f*ck,
it is actually WHAT HAPPENS to you when you die


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)




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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

dwarfcat said:


> It also doesnt say how long those 7 days are......1 day could be 100,000's of years
> [snapback]784818[/snapback]​


i think even in biblical times they knew that from the period of the rising sun to twilight equals a day.


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## spawnie9600 (Nov 15, 2004)

Gumby said:


> Big negative on the god and any kind of supernatural. Atheist here. Although I've been more agnostic since reading the bible. That's a damn good read, believe it or not.
> [snapback]778776[/snapback]​


sames been hapening for me


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

Liquid said:


> i give up, i can almost guarentee im dealing with teenagers, which is understandable..no one could tell me sh*t when i was that age either.
> [snapback]784293[/snapback]​


I agree...They havnt posted anything of value. Just anoying statments..


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Chunker-2000 said:


> I agree...They havnt posted anything of value. Just anoying statments..
> [snapback]785176[/snapback]​


I could say the same about you and the rest of those who believe in 'god'.


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## huntx7 (Nov 13, 2004)

This thread bombed quick. I believe in God, but hey it's my choice and it's not like any of you should care.

Anyways, let's be friends and hold hands guys


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## TheIRRITANkpr (Dec 7, 2004)

I think ther does. Could there be a middle ground. Science and religion. Who started the big bang.........hmm


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> I could say the same about you and the rest of those who believe in 'god'.
> [snapback]785186[/snapback]​


you've been saying it, sh*t like religion is unacceptable, but no one said athiesm(sp) is unacceptable, seems to me that it is not that you don't believe in god, its that you have a big problem with god.. i could give a sh*t, either way, god is perfect i am far from it, but if you don't want me to impose my religous beliefs on you, then dont impose your athiest beliefs on me, telling me what is acceptable and what is not, and what is fact and what is not.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2004)

I believe in a higher power because I choose to.

It's not out of fear of dying, but rather to to appreciate living and instill a sense of gratitude for what we have.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

I don't believe in god and I don't not believe in god


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> As far as people who say "I can have my beliefs, and you can have yours" go, you are wrong. There are two religions who, from their start, have been inherently dangerous. Christianity and Islam. They are the only two significant religions who, by their nature, impose themselves upon others. This is unacceptable.
> [snapback]784083[/snapback]​





Liquid said:


> you've been saying it, sh*t like religion is unacceptable, but no one said athiesm(sp) is unacceptable, seems to me that it is not that you don't believe in god, its that you have a big problem with god.. i could give a sh*t, either way, god is perfect i am far from it, but if you don't want me to impose my religous beliefs on you, then dont impose your athiest beliefs on me, telling me what is acceptable and what is not, and what is fact and what is not.
> [snapback]785551[/snapback]​


What I said was that people cannot proclaim neutrality on the subject when their religion, by its nature, requires conversion. I do not believe in god, and I have an opinion of those who do, but I don't go around trying to convert people. However, Christians and Muslims actively seek to convert people to their 'faith' and it results in huge conflicts. Atheism is completely acceptable, because it has no negative repurcussions on others. However, in the last 1400 years, more people have been killed in the name of Christianity or Islam than any other cause. Maybe that's one of the reasons I love the Jews so much.


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Liquid said:


> i give up, i can almost guarentee im dealing with teenagers, which is understandable..no one could tell me sh*t when i was that age either.
> [snapback]784293[/snapback]​


So because we don't share your views we're teenagers? That's a cheap copout.

edit- whoops wrong quote


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> . Atheism is completely acceptable, because it has no negative repurcussions on others. However, in the last 1400 years, more people have been killed in the name of Christianity or Islam than any other cause. Maybe that's one of the reasons I love the Jews so much.
> [snapback]785737[/snapback]​


f*ck yeah !!









Buddhism is good too


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> What I said was that people cannot proclaim neutrality on the subject when their religion, by its nature, requires conversion. I do not believe in god, and I have an opinion of those who do, but I don't go around trying to convert people. However, Christians and Muslims actively seek to convert people to their 'faith' and it results in huge conflicts. Atheism is completely acceptable, because it has no negative repurcussions on others. However, in the last 1400 years, more people have been killed in the name of Christianity or Islam than any other cause. Maybe that's one of the reasons I love the Jews so much.
> [snapback]785737[/snapback]​


how can you say israel has not killed anyone in the name of religion, they've just been fighting a holy war with arabs for the last 200+ years, matter of fact the only reason why we're a target for terrorism is because of our one sided support for jews in that conflict.

i dont judge or have an opinion on athiests, but i do judge and have an opinion on people that judge anyone based on thier religion, or tells me athiesm is completely acceptable but to believe in god is not..who the f*ck are you...ill refrain and stop here, but you know what you can do with that bullshit.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> So because we don't share your views we're teenagers? That's a cheap copout.
> 
> edit- whoops wrong quote
> [snapback]785812[/snapback]​


who the hell is we..46 says yes 23 says no, and to be honest out of all the nays the only person that gave a halfway intelligent responce(though ignorant as sh*t) is rico suave


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Liquid said:


> how can you say israel has not killed anyone in the name of religion, they've just been fighting a holy war with arabs for the last 200+ years, matter of fact the only reason why we're a target for terrorism is because of our one sided support for jews in that conflict.
> 
> [snapback]785903[/snapback]​


hahaha can you be anymore ignorant ? Israel is a secular state and their war with palestinians has nothing to do with Judaism


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> hahaha can you be anymore ignorant ? Israel is a secular state and their war with palestinians has nothing to do with Judaism
> [snapback]786014[/snapback]​


what does israel being a secular state have anything to do with it..its a known fact the palestinians and every other arab that commited suicide to kill a dozen jew kids every other week consider it a holy war..the attack from the arabs is over land and religion and the counter attack is just the same. we do one side support israel instead of keeping our noses out of it which has breed hatred for the u.s and all christians especially when our comander and chief publicly wears his religion on his sleeve, which i dont think someone who represents the united states as a whole should do


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Liquid said:


> what does israel being a secular state have anything to do with it..its a known fact the palestinians and every other arab that commited suicide to kill a dozen jew kids every other week consider it a holy war..the attack from the arabs is over land and religion and the counter attack is just the same. we do one side support israel instead of keeping our noses out of it which has breed hatred for the u.s and all christians especially when our comander and chief publicly wears his religion on his sleeve, which i dont think someone who represents the united states as a whole should do
> [snapback]786034[/snapback]​


You said "how can you say israel has not killed anyone in the name of religion" - that sounded like you implied Israel kills arabs in the name of judaism - while all they really do is defend their small country from terrorism which is the same thing we would've done, which is the reason we support them. Obviously there is no oil in that region


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol...gion%20Wars.htm

Israel's Jewish population (4.9 million) can be divided religiously among traditionally observant Jews (30 percent); secularists, who nonetheless fast on Yom Kippur, attend the Passover Seder, and light Hanukah lights (45 percent); and the completely nonobservant (25 percent).

"Two-thirds of the traditionally observant are ultra-Orthodox, or Haredim. Arguing that only the Jewish messiah can bring Jewish sovereignty into existence, they lead separate existences from mainstream Israeli political and social life and do not acknowledge the legitimacy of the modern Zionist state. The remaining third are the so-called Modern Orthodox. They see little conflict between Judaism and modern Israeli society, and participate fully in, for example, the Army and higher education.

*EACH ORTHODOX COMMUNITY HAS ITS OWN MEDIA, WHICH ARE PARTLY RUN BY THE "RELIGIOUS" POLITICAL PARTIES AND SERVE POLITICAL INTERESTS". The two largest Haredi papers, Hamoadia and Yetad Neeman, are published, respectively, by Agudat Israel and Rabbi Eliezer Shach, a leading rabbinical influence in the oriental Sephardi community. A 1995 survey of the Haredi community's exposure to mass media conducted by the Israel Advertisers Association -- the only scientific survey of ultra-Orthodox media tastes -- found that 37 percent of the ultra-Orthodox read Hamoadia and 30 percent read Yetad Neeman. In the Modern Orthodox community, Hatzofe is the organ of the National Religios Party.

this is why arabs and everyone else do not consider israel a secular state and do consider it a holy war, and why i believe it is important to seperate religion and government and why our leaders should not be wearing thier religion on thier sleeve, which is a whole nother thread.
and israel considers it terrorist attacks on thier country, the palistinians look at it as if they were kicked out of thier own land, either way, saying israel doesn't have any blood on thier hands in the name of religion is an ignorant statement*


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Liquid said:


> saying israel doesn't have any blood on thier hands in the name of religion is an ignorant statement
> [snapback]786081[/snapback]​


No, it's not. Nothing you said comes anywhere near close to showing that Jews go around converting people. I can talk about 1400 years or more of murder IN THE NAME of Christianity and Islam. Your only rebuttal is to bring up Israel? A secular state founded to give a minority being persecuted and ethnically cleansed around the world (Germany was not the beginning, nor the only location of a 'halocaust', just the most blatant) a country of their own? Israel doesn't destroy the homes and freeze the bank accounts of terrorists in the name of Yahweh. Jews don't cheer or riot in the streets chanting "Yahweh is great!" whenever anything good or bad happens to their country. However, the Palestinians all call on Allah as their champion and supporter for every single act of muder, death, or damage they can.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Liquid said:


> "Two-thirds of the traditionally observant are ultra-Orthodox, or Haredim. Arguing that only the Jewish messiah can bring Jewish sovereignty into existence, they lead separate existences from mainstream Israeli political and social life and do not acknowledge the legitimacy of the modern Zionist state.











congrats, you just proved my argument. Jewish religious fundamentalists don't even care about Israel or Palestinians or government or military, they live in slums of Jerusalem almost completely isolated from civilized society. I know because I've been there


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

and your going to tell me that the israeli goverment and the hatred between jews and arabs is in no way persuaded by thier religous beliefs..


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Liquid said:


> and your going to tell me that the israeli goverment and the hatred between jews and arabs is in no way persuaded by thier religous beliefs..
> [snapback]786143[/snapback]​


Palestinian terrorists blowing themselves up and shouting "Allah Akhbar" - yes, that' religious beliefs


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Liquid said:


> and your going to tell me that the israeli goverment and the hatred between jews and arabs is in no way persuaded by thier religous beliefs..
> [snapback]786143[/snapback]​


Yup, and there lies the kicker. Israel has NOT shown a hatred for the Arabs, but seemingly unending patience. If I had to describe Israeli relations with the Arabs in one word, it would be 'restraint'. However, if you had to describe Arab relations towards Israelis, what word would you choose?


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Jewelz said:


> Palestinian terrorists blowing themselves up and shouting "Allah Akhbar" - yes, that' religious beliefs
> [snapback]786148[/snapback]​


and iraels religous leaders in no way partake in israels government?


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Liquid said:


> and iraels religous leaders in no way partake in israels government?
> [snapback]786163[/snapback]​


The original point is that Muslims encroach their views upon others. I don't see that happening with Jewish leaders in Israel. Again, its a secular state and MANY muslims (and others) live in peace within their borders.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Liquid said:


> and iraels religous leaders in no way partake in israels government?
> [snapback]786163[/snapback]​


some religious parties do have their own representation in the parlament, that's all.
But Israel's leading political parties are secular. But hey, Israeli arabs also have their own representation in the parliament

Have you ever seen Ariel Sharon wear a kipa ? Do you honestly think he observes Sabbath ?


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

Sheppard said:


> exactly...science proves too much no a days,,,i believe all that religous crap happened way back when, cuz there is proof of that.
> 
> what i dont understand is how the hell does a virgin get pregnant?
> how do you manage to split a sea down the middle so you can walk across it?
> ...


1. Marry wasn't a virgin. She was married to Joseph. Married, as in they had sex. If the bible says other wise, your miss quoting it. Because the bible also uses *marrage* as a deffenition of *having sex*.

2. There was a show on the Discovery Channel that explaind that the Red Sea (or wherever they crossed) was only a couple feet or so deep (back then), and the wind would have been strong enough to part the water.

3. There was also a show on the Ark that Noah built. They said it was big enough to fit like 4 of every land animal on. Definitly not a raft.

Either way, the bible is full of holes and uses peoples fears to *force* them to do good. Like me telling my daughter I will bust her ass if she says "f*ck you". Science can explain almost everything the bible says, or *claims* happened.

Who knows what is true or false. I do know one thing, 99.9% of people who have heard of God won't kill someone for no good reason without thinking about going to hell first. If you don't think about going to hell, your

A. Retarded and don't have the mental capacity to thing of consequences. 
B. Already traned yourself into thinking Murder is ok.
C. Beleave God told you to.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> The original point is that Muslims encroach their views upon others. I don't see that happening with Jewish leaders in Israel. Again, its a secular state and MANY muslims (and others) live in peace within their borders.
> [snapback]786170[/snapback]​


actually f*ck em both







i still "know" for a fact, the conflict between jews and arabs includes religion..but as long as someone doesn't tell me that it is "unacceptable" for me to believe in god , then merry hanika and salakum silam to you..


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Liquid said:


> actually f*ck em both
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The conflict isn't between Arabs and Jews, it's between Palestinians and Jews. There are Arab Jews youknow.


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## chiefkyle (May 3, 2004)

I'm not either.


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## the grinch (Feb 23, 2004)

I believe in god, but am far from a saved or a good christian and have done a lot of questioning, out of my own ignorance. To truly know something and to understand it, you must study, and become an expert on that subject. If you have a question as to why god does something you dont understand become an expert on that subject, and maybe your question will be answered. I was forced to go to church as a kid and got almost nothing out of it. Dont become an athiest because you are ignorant to the subject, study the bible, study the koran, find out the real reason you are athiest, that is respectable, and the same for someone who worships god. Truly study the subject. Dont trust your pastor or someone else and take their word, study it!


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## o snap its eric (Feb 19, 2003)

Jewelz said:


> hahaha can you be anymore ignorant ? Israel is a secular state and their war with palestinians has nothing to do with Judaism
> [snapback]786014[/snapback]​


acutually the war between isreal (jews) and palenstinians (muslims) is all about jews. after WWII there was a lot of sympathy for what happened to the jews so, so the allies or america i forget which took a part of arab land and granted it the jews. the palenstinans are only trying to reclaim what they feel is rightfully theres and we support them because irseal is or only buddy in the middle east


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

o snap its eric said:


> acutually the war between isreal (jews) and palenstinians (muslims) is all about jews. after WWII there was a lot of sympathy for what happened to the jews so, so the allies or america i forget which took a part of arab land and granted it the jews. the palenstinans are only trying to reclaim what they feel is rightfully theres and we support them because irseal is or only buddy in the middle east
> [snapback]788359[/snapback]​


Well first of all you never mentioned about arab countries attacking Israel on numerous ocassions and trying to destroy it; second of all - what the hell does all this have to do with the religion of judaism ? absolutely nothing


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

o snap its eric said:


> acutually the war between isreal (jews) and palenstinians (muslims) is all about jews. after WWII there was a lot of sympathy for what happened to the jews so, so the allies or america i forget which took a part of arab land and granted it the jews. the palenstinans are only trying to reclaim what they feel is rightfully theres and we support them because irseal is or only buddy in the middle east
> [snapback]788359[/snapback]​


Wrong. The zionist movement was around before WWII, and the allies did NOT take a chunk of Arab land. The land in question was owned/controlled by the BRITISH, when it was offered in equal share to Arabs and Jews, but the Arabs didn't want to have half a share of it.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Enriqo_Suavez said:


> Yup, and there lies the kicker. Israel has NOT shown a hatred for the Arabs, but seemingly unending patience. If I had to describe Israeli relations with the Arabs in one word, it would be 'restraint'. However, if you had to describe Arab relations towards Israelis, what word would you choose?
> [snapback]786162[/snapback]​


You gotta be kidding me, right? Patience?!?!? Restraint?!?!? 
Man, what a bunch of bull...









A good part of Israeli's would favor the eviction - or rather deportation - of all Arabs from the occupied territories, no matter in what way.
Orthodox jews are as unwilling to give in just an inch as hard-line Palestinians, and have as much blood on their hands. I mean, come on: blowing up yourself in a full bus is an act of pure terrorism, but imposing collective punishment for the actions of a minority, bulldozing neighborhoods is just as much terrorism or undertaking wild razzia's, and just as much state-sponsored as what Fatah does.
Of course, the Israeli's have to defend themselves, but claiming they are the patient, victimized part of the conflict, whilst the Arabs are responsible is perhaps the most one-sided and ignorant thing I've heard today - it takes one to start a war, it takes two to keep it going. ....and it takes two to stop it...

I'm not taking sides in this party, because a solution can only be brought forward if both parties cooperate - until now, neither one of them showed the intention to do so, with the current leaders it's not going to happen either: Fatah leadership is a bunch of crooks that refuse to combat, if not support terrorism, and Sharon is a fat pig that should be sacked and tried for war crimes.
As said, what the Palestinian terrorists do can't be justified, as is the way the Palestinian authorities deal with it. But it's no more wrong than what the Israeli's do to the Palestinians - not the radical Palestinians, but the millions of ordinary, impoverished Palestinians that want peace as much as the ordinary Israeli's: they are the ones that pay the highest price for Israeli retaliation, not the terrorists, just like it's the ordinary Israeli citizens that pay the price for the conflict.


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## Jewelz (Feb 24, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> You gotta be kidding me, right? Patience?!?!? Restraint?!?!?
> Man, what a bunch of bull...
> 
> 
> ...


LOL what a bunch of crap

"Orthodox jews are as unwilling to give in just an inch as hard-line Palestinians, and have as much blood on their hands"

Orthodox jews live isolated from civilized society in slums of Jerusalem, don't vote, don't have cars, don't have weapons, don't serve in the military and don't care about either Israel or Palestine or politics in general. I've been there and seen how they live personally


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## Enriqo_Suavez (Mar 31, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> millions of ordinary, impoverished Palestinians that want peace as much as the ordinary Israeli's: they are the ones that pay the highest price for Israeli retaliation, not the terrorists, just like it's the ordinary Israeli citizens that pay the price for the conflict.
> [snapback]788826[/snapback]​


What price do they pay? Unless, when you say 'ordinary', you refer to the hordes of so called 'civillians' who mob the streets throwing stones, firing pistols and assault weapons (proving that they have violated agreements such as the Oslo accord), molotov cocktails, etc. at police and military forces. I would say that they should be in school, but their schools teach hatred for the Jews as well. 'Ordinary Israelis' are slaughtered taking the bus to the mall, while 'Ordinary Palestinians' are killed while rioting and inciting violence. The fact is, they ARE DIFFERENT, and you cannot compare apples and oranges in this conflict. The Israelis have shown infinite patience in the face of unending hatred, plain and simple.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> The conflict isn't between Arabs and Jews, it's between Palestinians and Jews. There are Arab Jews youknow.
> [snapback]786844[/snapback]​


yeah tell that to bin laden and all the other non palestinian arabs that hate the u.s for being so one sided with jews.


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## Scooby (Dec 25, 2003)

ahhh another post about Science Vs Religion


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## Scrappy (Oct 21, 2004)

Liquid said:


> yeah tell that to bin laden and all the other non palestinian arabs that hate the u.s for being so one sided with jews.
> [snapback]789188[/snapback]​


That's an ignorant comment. You might as well say that all Arabs are terrorists then. Way to generalize.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

.....so how about those buddists? Aren't they a trip for worshipping statues!


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## lemmywinks (Jan 25, 2004)

I dont beleive in a god.


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## Serygo (May 17, 2004)

Drew said:


> this wont end well
> [snapback]778653[/snapback]​


nope.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Religion is the source of TRUE evil..

anyone who disagrees needs to get a little deeper into history.


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## Liquid (Aug 24, 2004)

scrappydoo said:


> That's an ignorant comment. You might as well say that all Arabs are terrorists then. Way to generalize.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok so now your going to tell me that the only arabs in the middle east that hate jews is palistenians?? were you born yesterday?? or are you legaly blind...
90% of all arabs in the middle east hate jews and thats giving them the benefit of doubt, go read up on what saudi's teach thier young in school, and how it is culture for every other arab nation over thier to naturaly dislike jews. and to say other wise is beyond ignorant..


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## Chunker-2000 (Jan 17, 2004)

the grinch said:


> I believe in god, but am far from a saved or a good christian and have done a lot of questioning, out of my own ignorance. To truly know something and to understand it, you must study, and become an expert on that subject. If you have a question as to why god does something you dont understand become an expert on that subject, and maybe your question will be answered. I was forced to go to church as a kid and got almost nothing out of it. Dont become an athiest because you are ignorant to the subject, study the bible, study the koran, find out the real reason you are athiest, that is respectable, and the same for someone who worships god. Truly study the subject. Dont trust your pastor or someone else and take their word, study it!
> [snapback]788348[/snapback]​


I agree, study religions, and before you assume something make sure you have teh facts right.


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