# Sticky  Live feeders!



## Mr. Hannibal

Well i've been collecting Ps since 1989 and in my humble opinion most problems with Ps begin with live feeders. 
I losted some of my fish because of "uncertain" causes the first 5 years. Today i believe they died because of "unapparental" (internal) diseases/parasites (i always kept water pristine) they got from live feeders... and i've never losted a P again since i feed "dead"...
Personally i feed my Ps white meat fish fillets (different kinds) as staple and shrimp (shell on), squid and octopus as a complement for a varied diet... my Ps grow healthy and never had a problem again...







!
I know live feeders are more entertaining than dead food but you should keep in mind even quarantined feeders can contain internal (unapparental) parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... Personally i won't use feeders with my Ps anymore. Their health come first... just my opinion...







!


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## harrykaa

This is of course the correct and wise practise.

It is sad that people buy Piranhas to entertain themselves by deliberately killing other fishes. And mostly fishes that some other hobbyists take good care of. No good.

Safeguard measures is totally another issue. Using live feeders one risks the health of his Piranhas too, like Hannibal said.

Harry


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## Coldfire

harrykaa said:


> This is of course the correct and wise practise.
> 
> *It is sad that people buy Piranhas to entertain themselves by deliberately killing other fishes. And mostly fishes that some other hobbyists take good care of*. No good.
> 
> Safeguard measures is totally another issue. Using live feeders one risks the health of his Piranhas too, like Hannibal said.
> 
> Harry


Sad, but very true.

Back in 2003 on my first time around with piranha (reds and spilos separate tanks of course) I feed live feeders, and as Mr. Hannibal said several died from uncertain reasons. This time I decided prior to receiving them that they would be fed only prepared foods in lieu of anything live.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY

like lots of people said...stay away from feeder. but i'm some what disagree with it..yes i agree NOT to feed your piranha often, alots, or ever day daily food...

I believe piranha should have feeder once a while....maybe once a month or once in every 2 month for treat. IMO>>


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## kenlperry

Since joining this site I haven't fed my piranha feeders in quite some time... Their diet now consists primarily of shrimp, pellets, beef heart, and bloodworms. Every now and then I put some tetras or barbs in the tank and they all eventually get eaten, but no goldfish or minnows. I do feel it's kinda cruel to feed them live fish, even though it's a natural occurence in the wild. I do enjoy watching them attack a raw shrimp though.


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## a-ronn

Agreed 100 % anyway great information lots of people ask about live feeders on this site maby this topic should be posted.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY

i also would like to suggest the thread or topic should be save!....for newbie when they need information any other question regard feeder..


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## Fishking320

Soilid Info here! Good topic Mr.Hannibal


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## itstheiceman

so then what if you quarentine your feeders is it alright to feed them then? ...wouldnt quarentine take away all the diseas's?


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## C0Rey

itstheiceman said:


> so then what if you quarentine your feeders is it alright to feed them then? ...wouldnt quarentine take away all the diseas's?


not the internal paracites.

i feed my sanch feeders sometimes. NOT to amuse myself ( he takes them during the night anywhays ), but i feel it increases his life quality. Im well aware of the danger in doing this, but my lfs has, as long as ive shoped there, never had infested fish. if they do notice something they quaranteen the tanks. I will say im beginning to move away from live feedings, cause of the reasons stated by Hanniball, one day you might end up with a dead p.


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY

C0Rey said:


> so then what if you quarentine your feeders is it alright to feed them then? ...wouldnt quarentine take away all the diseas's?


not the internal paracites.

i feed my sanch feeders sometimes. NOT to amuse myself ( he takes them during the night anywhays ), but i feel it increases his life quality. Im well aware of the danger in doing this, but my lfs has, as long as ive shoped there, never had infested fish. if they do notice something they quaranteen the tanks. I will say im beginning to move away from live feedings, cause of the reasons s*tated by Hanniball, one day you might end up with a dead p.*
[/quote]

exactly...well said Corey


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## Mr. Hannibal

itstheiceman said:


> so then what *if you quarentine your feeders is it alright to feed them then?* ...wouldnt quarentine take away all the diseas's?


It's is less risky but it's always possible feeders still carry unapparental parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... personally i prefer not to risk my beloved Ps... anyway it's a matter of personal choice but in my humble opinion *at least* you should quarantine your fish (live feeders) before feeding your Ps...








!


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## eiji

I would just like to ask if feeding the pellets, shrimps etc except feeder fish, is there any way this might affect their aggresiveness?? thanks


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## itstheiceman

i think feeding them "non living" food drops there agression IMO, i feed mine shrimp, and feeders...out of curiosity what live feeders could i feed them IF i chose this route??


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## Fishking320

fish lover said:


> I would just like to ask if feeding the pellets, shrimps etc except feeder fish, is there any way this might affect their aggresiveness?? thanks


are you asking if there is a certain food that will make your P's more agressive?


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## Mr. Hannibal

fish lover said:


> I would just like to ask if feeding the pellets, shrimps etc except feeder fish, is there any way this might affect their aggresiveness?? thanks


As far as i know there are no studies on that issue... personally i believe fish aggression and live feeding are not related... just my opinion anyway...







!


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## itstheiceman

yeah, im pretty sure he is, why want so much agression tho...that agression that your looking for may sometime in the future cause you to lose a couple fish IMO


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## Fishking320

Yea or a finger. haha.... Just let your P's be what they are. Theres no need to attempt to make them into something that they're not.


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## C0Rey

Mr. Hannibal said:


> I would just like to ask if feeding the pellets, shrimps etc except feeder fish, is there any way this might affect their aggresiveness?? thanks


As far as i know there are no studies on that issue... personally i believe fish aggression and live feeding are not related... just my opinion anyway...







!
[/quote]

imo agressivenes is realted to shortage of food or dominance over territory.


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## eiji

thanks.. because i was feeding them pellets and shrimps lately and i noticed that there are less movements and some of my reds skip meals... but last week or so when i fed them black mollies, they were like chasing them, and devouring them in an instant... it seems to me they like feeder fish more than those foods i know that are beneficial to them...

Also, is it okay for them to be fed with crickets and other insects??


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## Fishking320

sure crickets are ok...just make sure your P's eat them fast enough because they will get out by climbing the filter tubing or whatever wires you have comming from your tank...

...They just need to get used to the fact that they cant have live food on the reg anymore. If they are used to always eating live food and your trying to change them to other things and they wont accept it right away, lower your temp to 78 so they dont start attacking each other because they're hungry. After a few days or so they should be accepting different stuff... Stick to WHITE fish meat (tilapia, flounder, etc.) Also whole shimp(raw shell on) Clams, Squid, Octopus.


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## Mr. Hannibal

fish lover said:


> thanks.. because i was feeding them pellets and shrimps lately and i noticed that there are less movements and some of my reds skip meals... but last week or so when i fed them black mollies, they were like chasing them, and devouring them in an instant... it seems to me they like feeder fish more than those foods i know that are beneficial to them...
> 
> *Also, is it okay for them to be fed with crickets and other insects??*


No problem with feeding insects as far they are "clean"... i mean, they are not taked from places where people use pesticides or other toxic substances... i recommend you get them from your local pet store... better safe than sorry







!


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## itstheiceman

crickets are full of nutrition...just depending on what insect you pick up







....i would like to find a feeder that i could feed them 24/7...makes mine more lively


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## eiji

Thanks guys


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## Fishking320

Thats what everyone is here for. Us to learn and to help others learn as we go.


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

I dont really agree.

But I do vote against store bought feeders.

I feed live every saturday but my source is babies from my pregnant mollies when they gave birth a few months ago.


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## Rough996

Fishking320 said:


> Thats what everyone is here for. Us to learn and to help others learn as we go.


I've learned quite a bit (I do more reading than posting). My experience with live food is to avoid the "DNA challenged" feeders. Stock can sometimes be thinned - genetically speaking, which makes the animals more susceptible to disease and the like. Therefore, when feeding live animals (fish or whatever), it may pay to be more selective... and pay more for the meal. Avoid the 10 or more for a dollar type of feeders. By example, I've fed everything from bullfrog tadpoles to pinky mice (don't recommend that one) to earthworms (nightcrawlers) and ghost shrimp. They do have a regular diet of "dead" foods, but they are always anxious for that live feeding. As soon as it hits the water (whatever), it has a matter of seconds!!!

We're all hobbiest to a degree, but the key is to remember what their diet would consist of in real life. Bugs are a big part of a fish's (almost all freshwater species) diet. Live earthworms provide great protien and of course, being fish and all, they LOVE em.

Trial and error, I'd say, but just don't try the "risky" live species. In fact, I'd go so far as to say as long as you're avoiding fatty flesh, it's *less risky* for your P to get a "fish killing" parasite from a non-fish species.


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## oldnavycb

Mr. Hannibal said:


> Well i've been collecting Ps since 1989 and in my humble opinion most problems with Ps begin with live feeders.
> I losted some of my fish because of "uncertain" causes the first 5 years. Today i believe they died because of "unapparental" (internal) diseases/parasites (i always kept water pristine) they got from live feeders... and i've never losted a P again since i feed "dead"...
> Personally i feed my Ps white meat fish fillets (different kinds) as staple and shrimp (shell on), squid and octopus as a complement for a varied diet... my Ps grow healthy and never had a problem again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> I know live feeders are more entertaining than dead food but you should keep in mind even quarantined feeders can contain internal (unapparental) parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... Personally i won't use feeders with my Ps anymore. Their health come first... just my opinion...:nod: !


that is a great point...when i intialy started the hobby i did it for the amazement <sp? of seeing the feeding but when that wore off i started feeding dead...i still occasionally throw a live feeder in but i primarily stick to dead


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## eiji

the reason why i ask about feeding insects to Ps is because when i fed my flowerhorn before with a cricket, the next day he lost his balance, in a way that he cant swim like the other fish does, and before he died, he was swimming upside down...


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## Rough996

fish lover said:


> the reason why i ask about feeding insects to Ps is because when i fed my flowerhorn before with a cricket, the next day he lost his balance, in a way that he cant swim like the other fish does, and before he died, he was swimming upside down...


Sorry about your loss, but that may not have been directly related to the cricket - UNLESS you got him from your yard or any land that has pesticides in the soil. STORE bought is best way - unless you KNOW that there are not pesticides and fertilizers in the soil.


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## Fishking320

i doubt that had anything to do with the cricket but who knows.


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## itstheiceman

check_ya_self said:


> I dont really agree.
> 
> But I do vote against store bought feeders.
> 
> I feed live every saturday but my source is babies from my pregnant mollies when they gave birth a few months ago.


what if i bought guppy's that bread would that be alright to feed my p's?


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## taylorhedrich

Nice topic Daniel, I hope people pay attention to it.









_*Topic Moved to Feeding and Nutrition Forum*_


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## Uncle Rico

It seems that if you breed your own feeders (convict cichlids for example) they will be a product of your own aquarium husbandry. And if they do in fact have disease, then it would say something about the quality of your aquarium husbandry and it seems that your piranhas will sooner or later get something anyway with maintenance like that. If you practice good maintenance then your feeders shoud reflect that and wouldn't give your ps anything anyway.


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## nemoRIDAH

i feed my pirnahs 10 goldfish everyday but they leave it 2 night time 2 eat wierd


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## thebluyak

nemoRIDAH said:


> i feed my pirnahs 10 goldfish everyday but they leave it 2 night time 2 eat wierd


I think you mis understood the point of the thread, the thread wasnt to encourage goldfish it was to tell you why you should shy away from them. If you must feed live breed convicts or mollies. Goldfish are not healthy for P's and of course you want them to be vibrant and happy


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

Yep, and i was saying I only feed live one time in the week.(Home Bred Mollies)

The rest of the week I am rotating my white fish staples.

And Nemo Ridah I think you have managed to do the exact opposite of what good piranha keepers do.


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## mraber

i'm new to owning p's and i was wondering......... wen i bought my Serrasalmus Sanchezi the workers at the pet store insisted i feed it live feeder fish..... now that i see this i am a bit uneasy because i have already fed it a couple....... is there anything i can do to help prevent any disease and keep it healthy from now on besides changing its diet...... also, legally, do you think there is anything i could do to the people at the store because i was looking forward to having a healthy fish


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## pottsburg

My P's are coming on the 25th, what size tank do I need to breed convicts? I'm just going to put it under the bar and throw a tiny power filter on it for a breeding tank/quarantine


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## primetime3wise

i'm gonna play devil's advocate.

certain fish that i've had, the clown knife being the most apparent, ONLY will eat feeders, and i've kept them before, years ago, for quite a while. i know others that have had huge specimens, over 2 feet, that never fed them anything but live feeders.

also, in nature p's rely heavily on the fins of other fish.

PT


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## bigman8258

i think the occasional live feeding keeps up moral!!! "you know" master of his domain stuff,thrill of the hunt. we do have to remember carion is only part of there diet in the wild...


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## ChilDawg

I don't know about that--do fish need morale boosts or is that anthropomorphism?


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## rich russell

i have a thought. what if you had a separate feeder tank of your own and you fed those fish anti parasite food. has anyone tried this


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## Piranha Mcfly

I think a feeder every once in a while is good for them. I have owned fish for a while and it seems it does slightly raise their aggressiveness when you feed them live food.


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## badman

Wow! Mr. HAnnibal never seizes to amaze me in the least! Very good topic but How do you guys feel about shrimp or dead Smelt or Sole? Just curious cuz thats whay i feed mine now oh and Squid but they dont seem to eat it very much...anyway just a thought? But live feeders never I have taken all advice given to me on this site and I have never had a problem yet







so i







to you all and thank you for all your great Info!


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## ...Jay...

This is already in the saved section of the parasites and injury section. But it probably should be in here too. The last time I bought feeders this is what I found in the stomach of a bloated dead minnow. Its SOOO not worth it. Tapeworms have a ton of segments and each segment can grow into a tapeworm. So every fish that has a bite, with probably get a tapeworm.


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## mullet

i dont understand how you can deprive a carnivorous creature from being just that.

i own reptiles and arachnids and relatives. and live feeding is an issue there as well. some say frozen mice for snakes and only frozen. i feed live and always will my ball python is 3 now under my care and i do consider her part of the family and would be upset if she died but at the same time im not going to deprive her of nature.

i also own 2 scropions which get a steady diet of crickets but ocasionally i like to toss a grass lizard in the tank theyr hunters as well.

my centipede gets a fuzzy once n awhile.

my point is mother nature intended these animals to hunt and kill man stepped in and made them captive. now people are taken it a step further and altering theyr evolution. if your take the hunt out of the animal the next generation from that animal will have less hunt and so forth until the entire physic of the animal has changed. and they are a completly new animal all together.

there has to be a safer alternative to live food. but denying them of nature all together is wrong in my opinion

but hey im just a stupid newbie LOL


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## ...Jay...

in the wild piranha are more scavengers than preditors anyway.

and I'm not sure you completely understand evolution as it takes alot longer than a few generations to change an animal. Some of a group would have to have a characteristic that makes them more successful(and in turn, breed more) than the rest. Nothing is going to happen to a species because you fed it differently for a few generations.


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## mullet

Jayson745 said:


> This is already in the saved section of the parasites and injury section. But it probably should be in here too. The last time I bought feeders this is what I found in the stomach of a bloated dead minnow. Its SOOO not worth it. Tapeworms have a ton of segments and each segment can grow into a tapeworm. So every fish that has a bite, with probably get a tapeworm.


i just wanted to say that im not trying to argue the hazards of live feeding. just stating why i think a completly predead diet isnt the answer either and supporting my opinion.

that picture is very disturbing. tho im not quite sure which is more disturbing.

the fact you could have feed that to your fish

or that you sit around carving fish up







j/k


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## ...Jay...

feeding doesn't change the genetics of an animal. Cats and dogs are tame because of "selective breeding" which can make changes much faster than evolution, but still has nothing to do with diet.
The babies dont know what there parents were feed and have nothing different in there attitude or genetics because of it. You can bottle feed a tiger for 10 generations, then take a newborn baby tiger and put it with wild newborn babies and it will be the same. That is all I'm going to say about it because we are derailing here.







we will have to aggree to disagree.

and I only opened the minnow because it looked like it was going to explode. So I wanted to see if it ate itself to death, or had eggs, or what. hehehe


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## nameless

I feed my P.s with live feeders occasionally. Their diet mainly depends on krills, schrimp and live feeders. Below are some of my live feeding videos. I mostly put the live feeder in a small tank with full of anti-parasite medications for a while, then put them into P.'s tank. I have not lost any of my P.s. I am aware of the risk of internal parasites, and that is my choice. 
This topic clearly states the risks of live breeding, and informing people about the risks. The rest, it will be choice of the P. keeper.


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## Demon Darko

Mr. Hannibal said:


> Well i've been collecting Ps since 1989 and in my humble opinion most problems with Ps begin with live feeders.
> I losted some of my fish because of "uncertain" causes the first 5 years. Today i believe they died because of "unapparental" (internal) diseases/parasites (i always kept water pristine) they got from live feeders... and i've never losted a P again since i feed "dead"...
> Personally i feed my Ps white meat fish fillets (different kinds) as staple and shrimp (shell on), squid and octopus as a complement for a varied diet... my Ps grow healthy and never had a problem again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> I know live feeders are more entertaining than dead food but you should keep in mind even quarantined feeders can contain internal (unapparental) parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... Personally i won't use feeders with my Ps anymore. Their health come first... just my opinion...:nod: !


I hace recently adopted a 4" caribe who was raised on goldfish feeders and is reluctant to eat anything else. What should I do???


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## shoal king

i agree with what hannibal said... but i still love to watch my p's go after some fish. so i say feed them tetra's







still get the show with much less risk.


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## ICEE

My P wasnt eating so i put 2 feeders in their and he ate them right away cuz i just got em


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## unbeatablec

I breed guppies, for my piranha to eat, is this safe?


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## Trivium160

I haven't had P's for very long but i've had other carnivores such as redtail cats or other species of cats and triggers. To be safe you can quarentine your feeders "i like guppies, to be safer" in copper or maricine and feed your feeders "spectrum thera +a". I feed my triggers a feeder here and there but i've mainly got them on spectrum foods and their agression has not dropped. I will probably stuff shrimp with spectrum thera+a to feed my piranha's. I think that food is excellent and i use it for all 7 of my fish tanks fresh and salt.

ooohhhh another thing if your piranha's are not wanting to eat try using "extreme garlic" it helps immune system and the scent is very strong so it should get them interested.


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## ricmcusa

Trivium160 said:


> I haven't had P's for very long but i've had other carnivores such as redtail cats or other species of cats and triggers. To be safe you can quarentine your feeders "i like guppies, to be safer" in copper or maricine and feed your feeders "spectrum thera +a". I feed my triggers a feeder here and there but i've mainly got them on spectrum foods and their agression has not dropped. I will probably stuff shrimp with spectrum thera+a to feed my piranha's. I think that food is excellent and i use it for all 7 of my fish tanks fresh and salt.
> 
> ooohhhh another thing if your piranha's are not wanting to eat try using "extreme garlic" it helps immune system and the scent is very strong so it should get them interested.


I think people are missing the point. I have read on various sites feeders being minnows and goldfish are bad.
Guppies are okay. I think I looked up rosey reds and found this info.on wikipedia. But if you buy them from your LFS your always at risk. Goldfish and minnows in example rosey reds are not good. They have no nutritional value and contain parisites that you can't see. And most feeder tanks are overcrowded and are neglected and plain dirty. If you wouldn't put your fish in those tanks. I wouldn't buy fish from those tanks. I guess with my other to RBP's I had I was very lucky. They never seemed to have any problems. Fed them nothing but goldfish. Didn't know any better. But I had to give them away after a couple of years. Due to a divorce and and all. I did'nt have the net at that time. I still wonder about those fish.They seemed ok. But who knows in the long run. I am going to raise my own feeders probably guppies and mollies. For a treat only. I feed mine talapia and shrimp.Sorry for the long post.


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## bud......weiser

i nearly cryed when i learned about the parasites that are in feeders and how it efects the piranhas


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## Puff

what about cardinal tetras?

im just getting back into the P game and theres a LFS that gets in cardinal tetras by the truckload. they have a huge tank with over 1000 of them. they're dirt cheap.

i was thinking of putting a bunch in with my sanchezi when i get him. dither/dinner...lol


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## wartooth

Mr. Hannibal said:


> so then what *if you quarentine your feeders is it alright to feed them then?* ...wouldnt quarentine take away all the diseas's?


It's is less risky but it's always possible feeders still carry unapparental parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... personally i prefer not to risk my beloved Ps... anyway it's a matter of personal choice but in my humble opinion *at least* you should quarantine your fish (live feeders) before feeding your Ps...







!
[/quote]

If I kept live feeders for the occasional snack, what steps can be taken to elimate any potential hidden parasites or diseases?


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## jestergraphics

wartooth said:


> so then what *if you quarentine your feeders is it alright to feed them then?* ...wouldnt quarentine take away all the diseas's?


It's is less risky but it's always possible feeders still carry unapparental parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... personally i prefer not to risk my beloved Ps... anyway it's a matter of personal choice but in my humble opinion *at least* you should quarantine your fish (live feeders) before feeding your Ps...







!
[/quote]

If I kept live feeders for the occasional snack, what steps can be taken to elimate any potential hidden parasites or diseases?
[/quote]

just as stated above quarantine them in another tank and treat them for parasites, let the meds run there cycle on the feeders. I don't think it guarantees they're good to go feeders for your P's thats why I feel if you give your P's feeders you should also look into biweekly treatments of prazipro on your P's.


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## vinaydbst

excellent topic ! well i feed my Ps with prawns and chicken liver n occasionally a quarantined feeder treat . i wanna ask 1 thing...does mammalian or bird meat affect the liver of piranhas ???


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## CorGravey

vinay said:


> excellent topic ! well i feed my Ps with prawns and chicken liver n occasionally a quarantined feeder treat . i wanna ask 1 thing...does mammalian or bird meat affect the liver of piranhas ???


Idont know about the liver but mamalian is not meant to be fed as a staple diet. Once in a while as a treat is okay IMO but i would look into a better more varied diet ofr your piranhas.


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## Marshall

Thank you for this great post ive been feeding my 3 3-4" P's live comet goldfish and after reading these i will probably quarantine them and then feed them once in a while, and as i write this they are destroying 2 at a time haha they eat so much 3 live feeders a day about the same size as them is this over feeding? ive had 3 giant danios in there since before they were there to start the tank and they havnt eaten them so im guessing there well fed. and i think to clarify the only reason anyone gets piranhas to start with is because they eat live fish if you wanted a 12 inch monster fish just get a oscar, or some sort of cichlid, dont kid yourselves.


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## PiranhaKev

I raise boas and feed them frozen thawed rats for the same reasons, parasites. What about freezing goldfish and then either thawing them out of tossing them in like we do our frozen food, thus eliminating the parasites.


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## eiji

Marshall said:


> I raise boas and feed them frozen thawed rats for the same reasons, parasites. What about freezing goldfish and then either thawing them out of tossing them in like we do our frozen food, thus eliminating the parasites.


So you have to kill the goldfish first and then throw it in the tank, so its also a dead fish. why bother freezing them if you can just buy white-meat fish from market?? Are goldfish in your area cheaper than tilapia or any other white-meat fish??


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## notaverage

fish lover said:


> I raise boas and feed them frozen thawed rats for the same reasons, parasites. What about freezing goldfish and then either thawing them out of tossing them in like we do our frozen food, thus eliminating the parasites.


So you have to kill the goldfish first and then throw it in the tank, so its also a dead fish. why bother freezing them if you can just buy white-meat fish from market?? Are goldfish in your area cheaper than tilapia or any other white-meat fish??
[/quote]

The big comets are about 12 cents each around me! 
How much is tilapia? I only have bought smelt for my spilo....he eats shrimp pellets and believe it or not color enhancing wafers i had for my bottom feeders....his colors are BRIGHT since I started doing this with shrimp and cichlid gold!

He wont touch beef heart anymore i tried after 2 months... he just wont touch it!


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## eiji

because in here a 4" goldfish costs more than a 7-8" tilapia (and the great part is you can chose if alive / dead)


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## PiranhaKev

fish lover said:


> I raise boas and feed them frozen thawed rats for the same reasons, parasites. What about freezing goldfish and then either thawing them out of tossing them in like we do our frozen food, thus eliminating the parasites.


So you have to kill the goldfish first and then throw it in the tank, so its also a dead fish. why bother freezing them if you can just buy white-meat fish from market?? Are goldfish in your area cheaper than tilapia or any other white-meat fish??
[/quote] Good point. I actually feed my guys tilapia, beef heart, shrimp and pellets. The days of getting excited over watching them rip apart live prey has lost its charm. I guess the guts and other parts of the goldfish may be good for them but you could also get a trout or smelt and feed that frozen as well. My bigger p's loved frozen smelt.


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## dongman78

mullet said:


> im fully aware of how evolution works
> 
> its the same thing as our pinkys humans dont generally use the pinky finger and as a result it is shrinking and eventually will become non existant. its a scientific fact do the research.


Woah! I wonder how fast I can type without my pinky or what finger will I use to pick my nose.


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## HowardsMom

Hello,
I just registered on this board I have a 3 year old Black Piranha and we have been doing feeders but i worry hes just not getting the nutritional value he should be from the feeders, not to mention im worried about diseases and parasites and how awful the feeders make the water even after a few hours.
its caused a lot more tank cleanings and most of the time Howard (my piranha) wont even fully eat the feeders, just bite them in half and leave the rest to rot. Very gross. we of course clean it out as soon as possible but i know it just cant be good.
In any case, my Howard is pretty reluctant to eat anything else.
Weve tried meats and prawns and shrimps and we just cannot get him to eat anything.
Someone had suggested to me to "starve" him into eating something else. that cant be safe right? i wouldnt know how long he could go before i needed to put something in the tank to keep him safe i just dont think thats right really.
Is there any suggestions someone might have as far as getting him to eat other things besides the feeders? I would greatly appreciate the advice.
Thank you!!!


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## Wide_Eyed_Wanderer

taylorhedrich said:


> If you dont like him just dont click on his threads hes allowed to share anything he wants to


speakyourmind just spoke HIS mind.:laugh:
[/quote]

^ Try buying one of those garlic food enticers for fish from your LFS.


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## PELIGROSO PYGO

I use to feed my p's live feeders at first and it does burst their growth rate and bring out the blood red but that always comes with a price.. internal parasites is a hassle to get rid of so all i feed them now is shrimp, fish fellet, blood worms and vegetables..(its good to have a balanced diet lol)


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## massabsamurai

great info here everybody... thanks. I actually got 100 feeder fish last week (didn't know much) but good thing half of them are dead. For some reason my rbp don't even like the feeders and always go for pellets no matter how hungry they are.


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## Dawgz

mullet said:


> i dont understand how you can deprive a carnivorous creature from being just that.
> 
> i own reptiles and arachnids and relatives. and live feeding is an issue there as well. some say frozen mice for snakes and only frozen. i feed live and always will my ball python is 3 now under my care and i do consider her part of the family and would be upset if she died but at the same time im not going to deprive her of nature.
> 
> i also own 2 scropions which get a steady diet of crickets but ocasionally i like to toss a grass lizard in the tank theyr hunters as well.
> 
> my centipede gets a fuzzy once n awhile.
> 
> my point is mother nature intended these animals to hunt and kill man stepped in and made them captive. now people are taken it a step further and altering theyr evolution. if your take the hunt out of the animal the next generation from that animal will have less hunt and so forth until the entire physic of the animal has changed. and they are a completly new animal all together.
> 
> there has to be a safer alternative to live food. but denying them of nature all together is wrong in my opinion
> 
> but hey im just a stupid newbie LOL


Mother nature intended these creatures to live out with her...in nature, not in ur aquarium/tanks. There is no way ur going to duplicate "hunting" techniques in a tank. You're basically just putting food in the tank. And as a "keeper" or hobbiest, you should be putting the best food in there for the animal you are taking care of, meaning free of parasites, good nutiritional value, etc.

But no, somehow you've taken mother nature into your own hands, or so you think.

I know this is a post from like 3 years ago, Im just reading this thread tho


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## nixrsix

I just started breeding convict cichlids and thats going great. I plan to sell some and feed a couple to the rbp's. Fish store feeders scare me.

What about feeding actual human food...hot dog, beef, chicken,etc.?

What about earth worms from your backyard? I dont use any pesticides in my yard, is it something I should still avoid just in case?


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## exodon king

not only do live feeders potentially carry disease, but most provide very little nutritional value. P's can take down some biggins, but for most fish, feeder mollies/guppies/comets/cuilled fry/ect are just skin and bones.
there is no point in feeding live feeders when there are so many other MUCH BETTER options. dry foods are made specially formulated with your fishs diet and health in mind, not to mention vitamin enriched formulas which promote growth, color, ect.


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## nixrsix

My P's seem to hate dry pellets and seem to only like fresh foods, meat, feeders, blood worms, beefheart, etc


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## exodon king

even MP, ocean whitefish or tilapia fillet are all better options


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## Piro

exodon king said:


> even MP, ocean whitefish or tilapia fillet are all better options


I think live or 'fresh' food (no goldfish) is better for piranhas, although it could carry diseases and parasites. In the wild they won't get any frozen food either. Frozen food loses some of their valuable vitamines. I think it's also better when you're not giving the same food every day. Fish out of the ocean is not so good for freshwaterfish I've read(at least if this is the only food you give them), the freshwater fish will get to much salt in their body this way.


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## exodon king

id look that up before i post it. wherever you got that information, was absolutely wrong.


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## Piro

exodon king said:


> id look that up before i post it. wherever you got that information, was absolutely wrong.


That's your opinion,although we're not sharing the same. I feed my fish fresh food and no saltwaterfish(sounds logical to me). Everyone must do what he thinks is wright. I'm just telling about my experiences.


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## exodon king

No, sorry. Processed ocean whitefish does not contain anywhere near enough dissolved sodium to be harmful. This is not an opinion. Its a fact.
Not even as much as a light dose you would use to treat disease on a scaleless fish.
I have an 11+ year old cichlid that was, and is, regularly fed ocean fish and MP. Perfectly healthy and has outlived many other fish.
Again. Get your FACTS right.


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## italianstylzzz

Piranha's are predators, and i feed live feeders... also live crays, and when i can find some live convict ciclids. I see everyone bragging about unhealthy fish and so on. blah blah blah.... i would welcome you all to drink a glass of water straight from the amazon river or any river out of the amazon where these fish are found. You WILL get sick from parasites and sickness yourself. THEY LIVE IN IT. Yes carp type fish, have little nutritional value and carry a growth inhibating vitamin. But to say feeding live feeders is wrong??? WHY? unless the feeders have VISABLE distress signals, then you must be stupid to put them in the tank.


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## SeedlessOne

^^^^^Did you even read the thread????


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## italianstylzzz

SeedlessOne said:


> ^^^^^Did you even read the thread????


Yes i have read the thread, this is my personal opinon, and does not reflect people in this thread.


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## Piro

exodon king said:


> No, sorry. Processed ocean whitefish does not contain anywhere near enough dissolved sodium to be harmful. This is not an opinion. Its a fact.
> Not even as much as a light dose you would use to treat disease on a scaleless fish.
> I have an 11+ year old cichlid that was, and is, regularly fed ocean fish and MP. Perfectly healthy and has outlived many other fish.
> Again. Get your FACTS right.


Okay, you feed your fish the kind of food you think is good, I feed mine other food. I don't share your opinion. I didn't say it will kill every fish in the long term (One fishspecies can be weaker then others) and I didn't say when you feed it once in a while it will be harmfull for the fish.YOU can feed your fish frozen oceanfish, but I think fresh or live food is better no matter what (skin and bones also contain nutritions), this is the food that's closest to their natural food. (and yes it could be a risk when your refering to disease and parasites) And about the dry food; I've seen redbellys that where fed only dry pellets troughout their lives and these fish where extremely deformed.(altough this is not the cases with every fish species!)


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## exodon king

Opinion has nothing to do with it. Stick to the facts and you may just learn a thing or two.


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## Piro

exodon king said:


> Opinion has nothing to do with it. Stick to the facts and you may just learn a thing or two.


You can stick to your facts, I'll stick to mine


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## Plowboy

I didnt read the whole post, but I read your little argument.

Live feeders basically just aren't the best because they contain parasites and the grouping of fish called cyprinids contain a growth inhibiting hormone. I thing its called something like thiamine or thamese. Forgive me for not remembering. If the fish is free of parasites and that hormone then its completely fine. Now you can guaranty that the feeder is free of the hormone, but saying its free of parasites is an impossibility. That would be the feed at your own risk part.

As for the whole freshwater fish eating a marine species, do you think it really matters in the amounts they are fed? Im less worried about feeding my fish a saltwater fish's fillet than I do about everyone in the hobby thinking you have to run salt in your tank at all times. If you want to avoid marine species then just feed tilapia. That's a healthy fresh water, white fish fillet that can be used as a pretty common part of your fish's diet.

And Piro. If your truly worried about your fish not getting the nutrients that are available from bones, organs, and every other part of a whole fish, then feed them dead smelt and silversides. That minimizes the parasite risk further.


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## Piro

Plowboy said:


> I didnt read the whole post, but I read your little argument.
> 
> Live feeders basically just aren't the best because they contain parasites and the grouping of fish called cyprinids contain a growth inhibiting hormone. I thing its called something like thiamine or thamese. Forgive me for not remembering. If the fish is free of parasites and that hormone then its completely fine. Now you can guaranty that the feeder is free of the hormone, but saying its free of parasites is an impossibility. That would be the feed at your own risk part.
> 
> As for the whole freshwater fish eating a marine species, do you think it really matters in the amounts they are fed? Im less worried about feeding my fish a saltwater fish's fillet than I do about everyone in the hobby thinking you have to run salt in your tank at all times. If you want to avoid marine species then just feed tilapia. That's a healthy fresh water, white fish fillet that can be used as a pretty common part of your fish's diet.
> 
> And Piro. If your truly worried about your fish not getting the nutrients that are available from bones, organs, and every other part of a whole fish, then feed them dead smelt and silversides. That minimizes the parasite risk further.


You are wright. I could feed them frozen tilapia and I do so in the winters even as freshwatershrimps but in the summer I catch bass and other predatory fish that contain no tiaminase or tiamine. Most of the time I don't feed them live food, but I clean the fish first, this decreases the chance of parasites, but it's still fresh food. But I still have to admit it's still a risk.(although I haven't had any major problems for as long as I have these piranhas)


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## THE BLACK PIRANHA

If you want to feed live then you should have a breeding pair of what ever and rais the fry for the purpose of being feeders, you can still watch the chase but you will be sure that the are free and clear...


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## blbig50

THE BLACK PIRANHA said:


> If you want to feed live then you should have a breeding pair of what ever and rais the fry for the purpose of being feeders, you can still watch the chase but you will be sure that the are free and clear...


Convicts are easy to breed, and parents aren't expensive


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## bgregson8904

i agree wit the occasional live feeders. i just started with piranhas but have been takin care of fish and turtles for about 4 or 5 years n have always givin all of them the occasional feeders

and i f u want to breed the convicts for feeding i have done that before n they do breed fairly often, the parents are cheap fish n they grow at a pretty fast pace


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## locust

I used to give goldfish feeders from a good source or so i thought occasionally to a large rhom then one day he got a worm like thing hanging from his eye that gave me a headache till it eventually disappeared with meds , just a heads up but ill never risk it again , and in the few years ive only fed dead foods ive never had a problem. Also i wouldnt want to risk complications, not with the current rarity/ expense of big rhom replacements in the UK anyway.
I thought the same, ie that a predatory fish like a rhom needs the stimulation of the hunt/ chase of live food to enliven its captive spirit,


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## Magzinator

a lot of you guys mentioned feeding Ps tilapia fillet. I can easily get Tilapia for free. Is it stilll a bad idea to feed them live ones? What about crickets? i tried feeding them crickets and they just devoured them


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## Jhowell

Ok, I have read through this entire thread and kudos to Mr. Hannibal. But now here lies how I have been operating over the past few months. As you can tell what I have in my tank (sig) I have a 20 gallon setup next to it which I quarantine live feeders I get which are sadly said to be goldfish. From now on I will change my ways and I guess you can say being the newb that I am? I am like the idea of squid/silversides and so on but where do you guys purchase these (sorry, if this is a dumb question) I just am interested because I want what is best for my two P's well thanks again in advance this thread provided me with some great info on new eating habits for my P's


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## bigshawn

Silversides can be purchased at petsmart or most pet store, so can squid but squid can be got at most grocery stores, all the food I feed my p's comes from the grocery store.......


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## RedSoxfan

Thanks for the lesson,no live feedings fo me!!


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## Crest Glide

http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?/topic/193130-breeding-convict-cichlids-as-feeder-fish/page__p__2575127&#entry2575127


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## SandNukka15

IMO ps should be fed a variety of food i believe giving them feeders once in a while is fine bc in the wild thats how they eat. I have 2 pairs of convicts that constantly breed so i have my own feeders that i take good care of before feeding my ps. i feed them feeders once a week.


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## italianstylzzz

I feed my manny mainly live, occasionally shrimp.. or white fish meat (tilapia). which he does not eat much of anyway. I dont use feeder goldfish or minnows, I will only find local small convict cichlids, or 4 for a dollar mollies or platty's at LFS. It is true, that feeders tend to give you the risk of a "bug" or "chemical Poisoning" (leaning toward the later), that can be brought down on your piranha. Traditionally these "feeder" goldfish or minnows kept at my local LFS and many other LFS, are housed in very poor conditions, with hundreds or thousands of them in a single tank. Being the very hardy fish they are, iv witnessed MANY times..different chemicals and medications thrown into those particular tanks (who even knows what the suppliers do?). The treatment of tropical fish is completely different than the "feeder" fish in the store for many different reasons. For the most part, those tanks are not even connected to the main system for their tropical fish. Yes it is much more expensive to do it the way I have set up my feeding schedule, but in the end, it reduces the risks by many times. Now im sure I will get feedback as to why I insist on feeding live, which is, in my opinion... nothing wrong with it. It is a predator, and deserves to be treated as such....


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## BRUNER247

Feed away! Only draw back from convicts is the only produce couple hundred babies at best per spawn & can take months to raise em to be more than bite size. Why aren't more keepers breeding tilapia? One good pr could produce more than 3 prs of convicts & grow at least twice as fast.


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## italianstylzzz

iv tried to look for a supplier of tilapia, I have yet to find one. I guess tilapia farming is a well kept secret, and no one wants to help us piranha finatics lol. In reality, tilapia from the farms, would be the best... they are for human consumption! So chemical treatments and all, would be highly monitored.


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## BRUNER247

Tilapiasource.com. Best tilapia strains in America


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## Sacrifice

What kind of setup would you need to breed tilapia?


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## BRUNER247

bigger tank than you'd need for convicts


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## SandNukka15

my red bellies are still young thats why i feed them convict fry......but talapia would def be a good idea


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## Sacrifice

BRUNER247 said:


> bigger tank than you'd need for convicts


Kind of figured that one. Relatively speaking would you say a 40g breeder, 75g or larger?


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## BRUNER247

I don't know why a 40gal wouldn't work. Really depends how big your breeders are.


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## Sacrifice

yeah that was what I was getting at. Do tilapia breed when they are small like 5-6" or is it when they get larger? Any ideas?


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## BRUNER247

They're breed like convicts if not more. Spawns will be bigger & tilapia grow super fast, faster than rbp. Breeding at smaller size slows down their growth like a lot of fish


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## SpiloJoe

Mr. Hannibal said:


> Well i've been collecting Ps since 1989 and in my humble opinion most problems with Ps begin with live feeders.
> I losted some of my fish because of "uncertain" causes the first 5 years. Today i believe they died because of "unapparental" (internal) diseases/parasites (i always kept water pristine) they got from live feeders... and i've never losted a P again since i feed "dead"...
> Personally i feed my Ps white meat fish fillets (different kinds) as staple and shrimp (shell on), squid and octopus as a complement for a varied diet... my Ps grow healthy and never had a problem again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> I know live feeders are more entertaining than dead food but you should keep in mind even quarantined feeders can contain internal (unapparental) parasites/diseases harmful/fatal to your Ps... Personally i won't use feeders with my Ps anymore. Their health come first... just my opinion...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !


where is the best place to buy this food


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## BRUNER247

If so worried about internal parasites & your so sure internal parasites are responsible for your Piranha deaths then why didn't you treat for internal parasites?if you feed unsafe or questionable feeders why wasn't some type of preventive medication used once or twice a year? Hell why not every 3-4 months?


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## Parsa

BRUNER247 said:


> Feed away! Only draw back from convicts is the only produce couple hundred babies at best per spawn & can take months to raise em to be more than bite size. Why aren't more keepers breeding tilapia? One good pr could produce more than 3 prs of convicts & grow at least twice as fast.


probably because its very hard to get started with them. id love to do it but i would need to, 1)buy 2-3 new large tanks (40 gallon or more) with filters, heaters, etc 2)track down the fish to breed 3)wait until the fish grow to a big enough size to breed


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## chico de piranha

waw..... i was aways feeding my Ps live food, like gold fish...... i didnt even know how bad it is to only feed them live fish... i have 4 Ps, i had them from baby, now they are so big

I am taking them of live fish....

can someone give me a list of good dead stuff i can give them... frozen foods if posible. i can defreez it before feeding

thank you


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## BuckeyeGuy777

chico de piranha said:


> waw..... i was aways feeding my Ps live food, like gold fish...... i didnt even know how bad it is to only feed them live fish... i have 4 Ps, i had them from baby, now they are so big
> 
> I am taking them of live fish....
> 
> can someone give me a list of good dead stuff i can give them... frozen foods if posible. i can defreez it before feeding
> 
> thank you


good choice...IMO id see if you can get them on pellets...i also use raw shrimp and white fish...but pellets are really designed to give them most of the nutrients they need


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## Bacon Of Time

My P's wonmt eat pellets, dont love blood worms, they seam to like the shrimp but they dont even finish the frozen cube. They wont eat the food i give them but there chewing the fins off of the 2 fish i ahd in the tank to promote algee groth when i fist gaught the tank. Could they simply want the live fish so refuse to eat all the frozen stuff and pellets? Im having an easyer time getting them to eat straw berrys and apples then they are eating meat.


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## Red Sox Fanatic

Thanks for info Hannibal.


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## chadw07

never tried crickets but think it would be ok but a real good thing that is cheap and highly nutritional is nightcrawlers


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## SKurj

New guy.. and this is an old thread... but one question came up after reading every post in the thread... Live SHrimp.. ghost shrimp whatever, is it possible for these to carry something that could infect the piranha? I can understand fish (seen it first hand with cichlids and feeders) just curious if shrimp can transmit bugs to fish.


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## Ægir

Ghost shrimp supposedly cant get ICH or most diseases, but I personally choose to quarantine any live feeders for atleast 30 days.


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## Ariana_Grande

not giving piranha live food is like having a vegetarian lion


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## Ægir

pdestroyer69 said:


> not giving piranha live food is like having a vegetarian lion


Not true... There are proper ways to use live feeders (breeding them in house or an extensive quarantine) but a varied diet (shrimp, fish fillets, pellets etc) is FAR better for them than any feeder.

Risking the introduction of parasites and disease further proves my point.


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## pain187

Hello Guys,

Good Day!









Can anyone please help me with my P's. My P's won't eat anything except live feeders. I know live feeders are bad for our P's so please help me out.

Thank you kindly!


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