# Some thoughts on .....



## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

I have noticed a large number of the posts lately have been about cloudy water or Bacterial blooms.
I too am currently experiencing a large bacterial bloom. I have tried to think of what could have caused 
this in my tank. 
I am sort of thinking between the growth rate of the 8 RB's in the tank <went from about 1" to 4" in 3 months>
and switching them over to a new food <Frozen thawed bate fish alewives>. 
I had an ammonia spike which went un noticed because the tank was fully cycled and established as a cichlids
tank for a year prior to adding the RB's. 
In my mind this makes sense because the balance between available food <<ammonia and nitrite>> and bacterial load should be self balancing.
Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong!
So a spike would have enabled the bloom again just my opinion!

So maybe those of you that are experiencing a bacterial bloom could think back to a possible cause and 
post it here.

I know I am going to make every attempt to keep this from happening to my tank again and possible causes are IMO a good place to start.

For those interested I am working with a 150 gal with an overflow and a wet dry filter/sump.
Total water in system is around 175 gal, the wet dry media is 15 pounds of bio balls.
I am running two Mag 9.5 pumps in the sump as returns so the turn over should be around 500 gph.
In the tank I am using a under gravel filter powered by four power heads <<Aqua clear 70's>>.
<<Still not sure how I could have gotten a ammonia spike but I did get one reading of 1ppm three days
before the bloom started>>
The 1 ppm was fixed with a 30% water change the same day.

Greg


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## harrykaa (Jan 10, 2005)

Greg Stephens said:


> In my mind this makes sense because the balance between available food <<ammonia and nitrite>> and bacterial load should be self balancing.
> Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong!
> So a spike would have enabled the bloom again just my opinion!
> 
> Greg


If the capacity of nitrification bacteria is big enough (you have big enough volume of bio media), you will not experience NH4 nor NO2 peaks. Only in rear cases big messy feedings cause elevated NH4 levels (but no peaks) and not even then any NO2 peak.
Peaks only occur because of insufficent volume of bio media, even if the tank is cycled.

Harry


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

Harry thanks I did call it a spike but I only got the one reading of 1ppm of ammonia.
I really think it was do to the new feeders they being the RB's really make a mess with them.
I included the basic info on my tank in the original post and can not remember the ratio of bio balls per
gallon but I am pretty sure I have more than enough.
Not to mention the undergravel filter and powerheads.


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Yep, adding live food will cause it until either the fish are gone or your filters catch up to the increased bio load. It caused the increase in ammonia, but the cloudiness imo is from uneaten feeder parts rotting.


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

Dr. Giggles said:


> Yep, adding live food will cause it until either the fish are gone or your filters catch up to the increased bio load. It caused the increase in ammonia, but the cloudiness imo is from uneaten feeder parts rotting.


Dr.G
The feeders have always been F/T and visable scraps removed

Thanks for the info about the feeder parts I was cleaning my tank weekly with a 20% WC and vac'ed the gravel.
But I have a bunch of natural rock in the tank and it is all siliconed together for safeties sake.
So I decided this week to up the flow of water in the tank to make sure all the scraps are going down to the W/D prefilter.
I was using 1/2 line with two Mag 9.5 PM's and four outlets in to the tank. The flow was about 600 gal an hour on a 150 gal.
I am now using the same two 9.5's but upped the supply line to 1" and made two 3/4 inch PVC return pipes.
I am amazed at how much of an improvement I have seen in just 36 hrs! <<lol I can see the back of the tank>>
I have not checked the flow rate but I am guessing it is around 1500+ gal an hour with a head height of 4' 6".
I even had to set up two of those Durso stand pipes which are 1 1/2" PVC in 2" bulkheads, it's still loud but much better than the super toilet sound!
Anyway I am hopeful it clears up soon!

Here some pics taken this morning, of the P's and equipment listed above.
I worked up the W/D bio volume to 19 gal with 15 gal of bio balls and as listed above approx 1500+ gal an hr flowing through it.














































Greg


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

LOL TOO MANY PICS! WTH



















These are the feeders; I string them on 12lb test fishing line.





































The scraps that circulate in the water are in the prefilter media in under 10 min, and then the prefilter is replaced 
with clean filter.
Is the tank under filtered or overstocked? Any info/opinions are welcome!
Ammonia is 0ppm Nitrite is 0ppm PH is 6.4 Nitrates are 10.
Tank is holding 3 7" plecos, 3 3" clown loaches, 8 3" to 4" Red Belly's.

Greg


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## mikeredbellie (Aug 13, 2006)

i have the same prob mate so frustrating i know. i just changed 50% of water it seems clearer but not brill its driving me mad just cant sort it i have 4 reds in a 125 gallon


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

? anyone have any ideas ?

Greg


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## barbianj (Aug 3, 2003)

If your water is cloudy like that, there is more bio material than the system can handle. The free floating bacteria that make it cloudy reproduce at an extremely fast rate and feed on the extra material. It is not a gigantic flow rate that increases the bio filter efficiency, but increased oxygen in the biomedia, assuming that you have enough media. My guess is that you have too much food entering your sump. As your fish and feedinds have grown, they have surpassed the bio filters efficiency. It's really just that simple.


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## AdamB (Jun 4, 2005)

Greg Stephens said:


> ? anyone have any ideas ?
> 
> Greg


 A few months ago i posted a solution to this problem for photo taking. its is NOT a permanent solution, but WILL clear it up today.

Post here

I have already been informed this isnt the best thing to do, but it is safe to do once in a while when you just want the cloud gone.

I fixed the problem by changing my feeding habits. I feed them more less often. now once a week instead 2x a week.

I hope it helps

Adam B


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## mikeredbellie (Aug 13, 2006)

so basicly my filter turning over 400 gph is not enough for my 125 gall tank with 4 reds is this causing the cloudy water?


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

mikeredbellie said:


> so basicly my filter turning over 400 gph is not enough for my 125 gall tank with 4 reds is this causing the cloudy water?


I would at least double your gph personally.


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## AdamB (Jun 4, 2005)

mikeredbellie said:


> so basicly my filter turning over 400 gph is not enough for my 125 gall tank with 4 reds is this causing the cloudy water?


General filter rule: 5x water change over an hour MIN.

5 x 125G=625 GPH

SO... Doubling your GPH, IE Picking up an identical filter and you have 175 GPH extra. More than enough.

I say identical so you only have to buy 1 type of filter medium. My problem is i have 5 tanks, 4 different types filters.







What a pain in the ass... it costs $84 to buy for all tanks...

Adam

Hey greg, Whats the Plecos name? The one in my ptank is called Tiny(or Angus as he was named when i was given him) But hes far from tiny..









also, i find thawed fish messier than frozen, will they eat it frozen??mine will... i know some wont without being fed it since small. .


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## mikeredbellie (Aug 13, 2006)

done as of tommorow im getting another canister or maybe get the penguin 350 they look good


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## AdamB (Jun 4, 2005)

mikeredbellie said:


> done as of tommorow im getting another canister or maybe get the penguin 350 they look good


kool, but like i was saying, if you get the identical one(or one that uses the same medium, like my penguin 170 and penguin 200) you can save some $ by buying bigger packs of filters. the rite size "C" for my 170 and 200 are 5$ each or 3 for 12, so i save 3$ which isn't much but it does equate to a free pack every 2-3 months.

i use my setups as an example but if you keep it in mind...

oh, and if you change one filter @ a time, you keep the bioload intact and will help keep the levels more stable.

Sorry greg for answering him in your thread and not you, you seem to have a handle on your situation..









Adam


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

AdamB said:


> done as of tommorow im getting another canister or maybe get the penguin 350 they look good


kool, but like i was saying, if you get the identical one(or one that uses the same medium, like my penguin 170 and penguin 200) you can save some $ by buying bigger packs of filters. the rite size "C" for my 170 and 200 are 5$ each or 3 for 12, so i save 3$ which isn't much but it does equate to a free pack every 2-3 months.

i use my setups as an example but if you keep it in mind...

oh, and if you change one filter @ a time, you keep the bioload intact and will help keep the levels more stable.

Sorry greg for answering him in your thread and not you, you seem to have a handle on your situation..









Adam
[/quote]

Adam thanks for the info I hope I have this figured out. 
LOL the plecos 3 total have the same name lucky!

barbianj, Thanks for the info I picked up some new prefilter material that is said to polish the water.
It removes partials down to 50 microns, I had been using the cut to fit blue media.
I was shocked at how much stuff the new media removed in under an hour.
I am also going to add some submerged bio material to the sump tomorrow. 
Wish me luck!

mikeredbellie, I was looking at the marineland mag 350 today it has a pleated polishing filter that can be used and replaced as needed. You might want to check it out!

Greg


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## Greg Stephens (Sep 30, 2006)

Tank is all cleared up thanks for the help!




























Greg


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