# how to keep your tank perfect



## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

Take a 55 Gallon with 4 Cichlids (or reds all about 6") for example...

Get yourself a set of Aqua Clear 110 Power Filters

and a big bottle of "Cycle" - dump it all into your tank...

feed them Danios, wait 6 months and never do a single water change...

and this is what you have...


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## 2PiRaNhA~2FuRrY (Nov 1, 2005)

Great water parameter!...

However I wouldn't recommend to keep your tank for 6month with out doing anything do them..Piranha or any other fish grow fast, big and healthy with clean water. Doesn't mater what your water parameter are, doesn't matter how strong is your filter, doesn't matter how clear and clean is your water.

Water change every week is a MUST!.....Piranha can grow fast and healthy with fresh clean water every week, also you want to do your gravel vacuum. You'll be suprise with all the dirty, poop, etc...coming out from under the gravel.

So 30-50% of water change once a week.
keep your water parameter at same level and good reading all the time
Vacuum the gravel
keep fish well fed with healthy food
lots of space for them

you be happy and see how fast your fish can grow!...IMO


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## SAFETYpin (Feb 1, 2004)

FohDatAss said:


> Take a 55 Gallon with 4 Cichlids (or reds all about 6") for example...
> 
> Get yourself a set of Aqua Clear 110 Power Filters
> 
> ...


I think your missing the boat on why we change water!!! I see you did a PH nitrite and ammonia test, BUT WHAT ABOUT YOUR NITRATES. Nitrate is the final product of the nitrogen cycle in the home aqarium and although not as toxic as Ammonia or Nitrites it still can inhibit growth, color and hurt the immune system. Not trying to be too abrasive but check your nitrates and come back to talk about maintence free for 6 months.


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## d851 (Oct 31, 2006)

nitrates ?

i could understand your results if you were using Nitrate minus or a similar product.

check your nitrates and post the results.

high nitrates will damage your fish in the long term.

daz


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

d851 said:


> nitrates ?
> 
> i could understand your results if you were using Nitrate minus or a similar product.
> 
> ...


i bought the whole kit and it only came with a nitrite test, not a nitrate test, i've heard that NITRATE is not dangerous until it converts to NITRITE which creates the ammonia.....i think my fish are happy with the water params i have here, they look award winning...

what i'm saying is that either way with a low nitrite reading, it shouldn't be possible that my nitrates are high

even if i got it backwards, it should still not be an issue


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## ICEE (Feb 3, 2007)

nice but a gravel vac weekly is good for P growth


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## pioneer1976 (Jan 14, 2007)

well if i was you a i would get a nitrate test kit and just check it.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

FohDatAss said:


> nitrates ?
> 
> i could understand your results if you were using Nitrate minus or a similar product.
> 
> ...


i bought the whole kit and it only came with a nitrite test, not a nitrate test, i've heard that NITRATE is not dangerous until it converts to NITRITE which creates the ammonia.....i think my fish are happy with the water params i have here, they look award winning...

what i'm saying is that either way with a low nitrite reading, it shouldn't be possible that my nitrates are high

even if i got it backwards, it should still not be an issue
[/quote]

You do have it backwards. Ammonia --> Nitrite --> NITRATE. You can have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrates through the roof. Unless you have plants in there (or a ton of algae), your nitrates will start to accumulate without partial water changes. High nitrates will harm your fish and can lead to hole-in-the-head among other diseases...plus, as perviously mentioned, hormones and other organic (and inorganic) byproducts are accumulating that will lead to stunted growth. What are you using for top off water? Unless you are using distilled, R/O, or DI water, your pH and/or GH will start to swing too.


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

true i allowed algae to grow over the gravel creating a natural "grre/brown carpet, looks really cool, since the rest of the tank is spotless, that comes from leaving on the lights and cleaning everything but the gravel, crazy but its been working, any fish hobbiest would say that i'm a moron, but all my tests so far hve been good, lol

this is what happens when you experiment


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## pioneer1976 (Jan 14, 2007)

how have all your test been good you dont have a nitrate tester. You seriuosly need to test your nitrates man


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

FohDatAss said:


> true i allowed algae to grow over the gravel creating a natural "grre/brown carpet, looks really cool, since the rest of the tank is spotless, that comes from leaving on the lights and cleaning everything but the gravel, crazy but its been working, any fish hobbiest would say that i'm a moron, but all my tests so far hve been good, lol
> 
> this is what happens when you experiment


Not an "experiment" that I would choose to run...especially since you only tested for the beginning products of the nitrogen cycle. I've had friends that never did a water change for several months to a year due to laziness...always bit them in the ass when it came time to do one. Their fish either died or came down with ich or other diseases due to the shock caused by the difference in water quality. That's not a risk I'm willing to take with all the time, expense, and care I put into my fish and tanks. I freak out when I miss a weekly water change. If you had several live plants in there, I'd say your odds were better that your tank is realtively healthy, but even then...6 months?


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

BioTeach said:


> nitrates ?
> 
> i could understand your results if you were using Nitrate minus or a similar product.
> 
> ...


i bought the whole kit and it only came with a nitrite test, not a nitrate test, i've heard that NITRATE is not dangerous until it converts to NITRITE which creates the ammonia.....i think my fish are happy with the water params i have here, they look award winning...

what i'm saying is that either way with a low nitrite reading, it shouldn't be possible that my nitrates are high

even if i got it backwards, it should still not be an issue
[/quote]

You do have it backwards. Ammonia --> Nitrite --> NITRATE. You can have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrates through the roof. Unless you have plants in there (or a ton of algae), your nitrates will start to accumulate without partial water changes. High nitrates will harm your fish and can lead to hole-in-the-head among other diseases...plus, as perviously mentioned, hormones and other organic (and inorganic) byproducts are accumulating that will lead to stunted growth. What are you using for top off water? Unless you are using distilled, R/O, or DI water, your pH and/or GH will start to swing too.
[/quote]

ok, how does ammonia ----> nitrite----->nitrate NOT contradict the fact that you say i can have 0 ammionia 0 nitrite but have nitrates through the roof????


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

FohDatAss said:


> nitrates ?
> 
> i could understand your results if you were using Nitrate minus or a similar product.
> 
> ...


i bought the whole kit and it only came with a nitrite test, not a nitrate test, i've heard that NITRATE is not dangerous until it converts to NITRITE which creates the ammonia.....i think my fish are happy with the water params i have here, they look award winning...

what i'm saying is that either way with a low nitrite reading, it shouldn't be possible that my nitrates are high

even if i got it backwards, it should still not be an issue
[/quote]

You do have it backwards. Ammonia --> Nitrite --> NITRATE. You can have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrates through the roof. Unless you have plants in there (or a ton of algae), your nitrates will start to accumulate without partial water changes. High nitrates will harm your fish and can lead to hole-in-the-head among other diseases...plus, as perviously mentioned, hormones and other organic (and inorganic) byproducts are accumulating that will lead to stunted growth. What are you using for top off water? Unless you are using distilled, R/O, or DI water, your pH and/or GH will start to swing too.
[/quote]

ok, how does ammonia ----> nitrite----->nitrate NOT contradict the fact that you say i can have 0 ammionia 0 nitrite but have nitrates through the roof????
[/quote]

Sounds like it's time for a lesson on the nitrogen cycle!









Fish produce ammonia which gets broken down by bacteria in your filter/tank...the end product is nitrite. (ammonia builds up when you do not have enough of these "good" bacteria...that's why we measure it in a tank that is cycling).

Nitrite then gets broken down into nitrate by another type of bacteria. (Once again, too few of these helpful bacteria = nitrite build up...that's why we know your tank is cycled when nitrites spike and go to zero).

Nitrate can only be removed by producers (plants, algae, cyanobacteria), chemicals, or water changes.

So you see, a healthy biofilter consumes ammonia as it is produced and converts it to nitrite, consumes nitrite as it is produced and converts it to nitrate, thus leaving nitrate as the only testable product with most all test kits.









Your tests of ammonia and nitrite show that you have a healthy biofilter, but not necessarily a healthy tank.


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

> Nitrate can only be removed by producers (plants, algae, cyanobacteria), chemicals, or water changes.


so the algae carpet helps then....HA! you know you want an algae carpet in your tank....and 6 months....yes!!

JK...I am clear now....THANKS TEACH


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

Im so utterly confused by this thread??


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## 77gp454 (Feb 18, 2007)

You guys are a trip!
Good info Bioteach!


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## bud......weiser (Feb 12, 2007)

77gp454 said:


> You guys are a trip!
> Good info Bioteach!


holy crap i second that,his nitrates are probably at like 500ppm lol,can nitrates even go that high?


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

flashover00 said:


> You guys are a trip!
> Good info Bioteach!


holy crap i second that,his nitrates are probably at like 500ppm lol,can nitrates even go that high?
[/quote]

just got the nitrate test, gonna post a picture showing that its 0 , yes i said 0....wait for the picture


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

FohDatAss said:


> You guys are a trip!
> Good info Bioteach!


holy crap i second that,his nitrates are probably at like 500ppm lol,can nitrates even go that high?
[/quote]

just got the nitrate test, gonna post a picture showing that its 0 , yes i said 0....wait for the picture
[/quote]

i was told by the pet store guy that with an extreme amount of filtration, plant and algae, it can self sustain, as long as the filter media is changed often.....

this tank is 55 gallons with 2 aqua clear 110 gallon filters ...

i'm not making this up!


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

here it is...

my wife took the camera with the baby today...so i had to take it on my cell phone but you can see that it clearly clear not pink...


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## Alexx (Jan 20, 2006)

> i was told by the pet store guy that with an extreme amount of filtration, plant and algae, it can self sustain,


but you dont have extreme anything so how is it self sustaining.

if your nitrate test is reading 0, it or something is wrong
its just not possible to have 0 nitrate when you only got a couple of amazon swords and abit of algea
and youve done no water changes for 6 months


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

piranha-man uk said:


> > i was told by the pet store guy that with an extreme amount of filtration, plant and algae, it can self sustain,
> 
> 
> but you dont have extreme anything so how is it self sustaining.
> ...


thats what i thought....

a couple of thoughts...

with the filtration i have(also leaving the covers off the filters) i put a gallon in there almost every day to refil the tank to the top...so thats a possibility, ...this IS what happend, thats why i started this thread...its a freak case i guess


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

FohDatAss said:


> with the filtration i have(also leaving the covers off the filters) i put a gallon in there almost every day to refil the tank to the top...so thats a possibility, ...this IS what happend, thats why i started this thread...its a freak case i guess


...which is why i said


> Im so utterly confused by this thread??


Gnerally speaking, not doing water changes for 6 months would probably mess your fish up pretty damn bad. Are your fish healthy?....
I was also pretty consfused as to WHY you didnt do water changes for 6 months....


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

flashover00 said:


> with the filtration i have(also leaving the covers off the filters) i put a gallon in there almost every day to refil the tank to the top...so thats a possibility, ...this IS what happend, thats why i started this thread...its a freak case i guess


...which is why i said


> Im so utterly confused by this thread??


Gnerally speaking, not doing water changes for 6 months would probably mess your fish up pretty damn bad. Are your fish healthy?....
I was also pretty consfused as to WHY you didnt do water changes for 6 months....
[/quote]

they look amazing...actually, i would parade pictures of my dempsey, except he has a weird mark on his tail making him slightly imperfect...wanna see him....


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

flashover00 said:


> with the filtration i have(also leaving the covers off the filters) i put a gallon in there almost every day to refil the tank to the top...so thats a possibility, ...this IS what happend, thats why i started this thread...its a freak case i guess


...which is why i said


> Im so utterly confused by this thread??


Gnerally speaking, not doing water changes for 6 months would probably mess your fish up pretty damn bad. Are your fish healthy?....
I was also pretty consfused as to WHY you didnt do water changes for 6 months....
[/quote]

well, quite honestly I went on a "binge" for 6 months and forgot


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

he's in perfect shape


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## itstheiceman (Oct 5, 2006)

thats hardcore, you must clean your filters a bunch then, your tube looks spotless


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

itstheiceman said:


> thats hardcore, you must clean your filters a bunch then, your tube looks spotless


dishwasher...Top rack

you can see in the glass the algea that i couldn't get to with the magnet


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

You should still do waterchanges. Haven't you ever noticed your fish after waterchanges? Mine get really 'hyper' and dart around everywhere in excitement. I look at it as an equivalent of a breath of fresh air to us.
~Taylor~


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## flashover00 (Oct 19, 2006)

taylorhedrich said:


> You should still do waterchanges. Haven't you ever noticed your fish after waterchanges? Mine get really 'hyper' and dart around everywhere in excitement. I look at it as an equivalent of a breath of fresh air to us.
> ~Taylor~


Well said...not only is it a breath of fresh air, but new water will replace the trace minerals present in the tank. I know specifically that discus require certain minerals for proper growth, and that stale 6 month old water would lack it. Im sure most fish are like this as well....

I think you can compare 6 months w/o a water change to wild P's being trapped in one of those puddles during the dry season. 
Sure they may survive because they are hardy fish...but they for sure are less healthy during that time period


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Impossible to have zero nitrates in a cycled tank. Unless you tested the tap water :laugh:


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

my tap water has 0ppm no2 & no3, i charge my nitra sorb pillow and leave it in there for a couple of weeks and then recharge it

i've pulled this off with cichlids withoput water changes for months...


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

taylorhedrich said:


> You should still do waterchanges. Haven't you ever noticed your fish after waterchanges? Mine get really 'hyper' and dart around everywhere in excitement. I look at it as an equivalent of a breath of fresh air to us.
> ~Taylor~


they also act like that IME when i bang the tank with my hand, doesn't mean that they like it...not to argue with you T.H.


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

mR. Blueberry said:


> You should still do waterchanges. Haven't you ever noticed your fish after waterchanges? Mine get really 'hyper' and dart around everywhere in excitement. I look at it as an equivalent of a breath of fresh air to us.
> ~Taylor~


they also act like that IME when i bang the tank with my hand, doesn't mean that they like it...not to argue with you T.H.








[/quote]






















I don't even want to know what "experiment" you were doing to figure that out....


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## taylorhedrich (Mar 2, 2005)

mR. Blueberry said:


> You should still do waterchanges. Haven't you ever noticed your fish after waterchanges? Mine get really 'hyper' and dart around everywhere in excitement. I look at it as an equivalent of a breath of fresh air to us.
> ~Taylor~


they also act like that IME when i bang the tank with my hand, doesn't mean that they like it...not to argue with you T.H.








[/quote]
No, I'm not talking about the darting around that takes place during the waterchange (that is to be expected in any case), I'm talking about their darting around a few minutes afterwards when everything is settled. They are happy and refreshed with the new water...you just know.
~Taylor~


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## FohDatAss (Oct 7, 2003)

> Interesting that you didn't mention that earlier...


cause i didn't do it earlier...lol



taylorhedrich said:


> You should still do waterchanges. Haven't you ever noticed your fish after waterchanges? Mine get really 'hyper' and dart around everywhere in excitement. I look at it as an equivalent of a breath of fresh air to us.
> ~Taylor~


they also act like that IME when i bang the tank with my hand, doesn't mean that they like it...not to argue with you T.H.








[/quote]
No, I'm not talking about the darting around that takes place during the waterchange (that is to be expected in any case), I'm talking about their darting around a few minutes afterwards when everything is settled. They are happy and refreshed with the new water...you just know.
~Taylor~
[/quote]

i got you...never noticed that with my guys...








JUST SO EVERYONE WHO'S READING THIS THREAD KNOWS...I AM GOING TO STICK TO ROUTINE WATER CHANGES NOW...









all kidding aside, its just easier and less expensive...ok...i said it...


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## BoOCh_nse (Feb 17, 2007)

what is the GH of the tank, most fish require a certain hardness level that is close to their natural habitat. the GH directly affects the metabolism of the fish, and although they look fine now, they could possibly have issues later on in life because of this. also another thing to check is the alkalinity of the water, which is sometimes referred to as KH. alkalinity is the ability of the water to buffer the change in the PH, from acids being released into the water by the breakdown of waste in the tank. if the alkalinity is too low, quick PH swings can occur easily, this is dangerous for the fish. after time, the alkalinity in the tank naturally goes down form a buildup of these acids, and can usually be raised by doing water changes, although that is also dependent on how much alkalinity your tap water has. anyway, i guess what I'm saying is that if you really care about the fish you might want to do some research, and do water changes on a regular basis, it will help the fish grow big time. a good saying I've heard quite a bit is "The Solution to Pollution is Dilution!".

good luck with whatever you decide to do.









lol just read your last reply.


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