# Why are they rubbing against the gravel?



## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

It's been an hour or so, they are diving into the gravel, seemingly to relieve ichyness.

4 Caribes in a 75 gal

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 8 (i know it's high...) <--- can it be because of this?

im stumped, i did a 15% water change, still scratching.

thanks for the help guys


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## bir2 (Jun 4, 2004)

its ich dude... better do another water change and add 1 tbl spoon of table salt per 5-10 gallons... and ich is gone...


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

If they are flashing against the gravel alot you may have a case of gill flukes. The best way to treat is to use praziquantel. It is not cheap. But it is effective and will not mess with your biological filter. salt does not work for flukes. you can get it here. Praziquantel


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## LOON (Jan 30, 2004)

They do have to scratch sometimes. May not be something wrong unless they are doing constantly. Mine do it sometimes.


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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

bir2 said:


> its ich dude... better do another water change and add 1 tbl spoon of table salt per 5-10 gallons... and ich is gone...


 It's not ich, im already sure of that


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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

jerry_plakyda said:


> If they are flashing against the gravel alot you may have a case of gill flukes. The best way to treat is to use praziquantel. It is not cheap. But it is effective and will not mess with your biological filter. salt does not work for flukes. you can get it here. Praziquantel


 How can i be sure it's gill flukes?


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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

LOON said:


> They do have to scratch sometimes. May not be something wrong unless they are doing constantly. Mine do it sometimes.


 They have been doing it constantly for 24 hrs now


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## piranhamagnet (Jun 30, 2004)

yeah it means something is wrong. i cant remember where i read it, but its a sign of sickness if it continues.


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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)




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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

bump


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## dallas (Nov 14, 2003)

My reds would somtimes do that, but not as much as you are describing. What could be worth a try is getting some chemicals that treat diseases and ich, whether ich is the problem or not. Its worth a try anyways. Let me know if you find out what it is or if it gets better. it could just be then scratching themselves, hopfully that is the problem.

Dallas


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## Genin (Feb 4, 2003)

mine do it to, but not that frequently. just treat the tank with some salt for now and see if it gets them to stop before you start using serious meds for parasites/diseases you don't know are there.


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## NTcaribe (Apr 8, 2004)

Pizzo said:


> jerry_plakyda said:
> 
> 
> > If they are flashing against the gravel alot you may have a case of gill flukes. The best way to treat is to use praziquantel. It is not cheap. But it is effective and will not mess with your biological filter. salt does not work for flukes. you can get it here. Praziquantel
> ...


 any white spots on the fish?.could be gill flukes,
try some coppersafe not as expensive..$9 at the most


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Pizzo said:


> LOON said:
> 
> 
> > They do have to scratch sometimes. May not be something wrong unless they are doing constantly. Mine do it sometimes.
> ...


 If there doing it constantly either one or two things are going on. External parasites or gill flukes. most external parasites can be killed with a salt treatment. try that. if afterwards you still notice the flashing alot they are gill flukes. you cannot see them with the naked eye. they lay eggs so your tank can get infested with them. the only way to be sure is to take a qtip swab sample from the gills and check under a microscope. my terns had flukes when i bought them. a couple treatments with praziquantel and i haven't seen them flash since. LFS's sell fluke tabs that do work but have heard some stories where it wiped out the p's. Go with prazi you won't regret it. this way if it happens again due to introduction of feeders who have them you will be ready. read this page to find out what they are about. Flukes


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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

nasty typhoon said:


> Pizzo said:
> 
> 
> > jerry_plakyda said:
> ...


 Doesn't look like there are any white spots....


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## Pizzo (Nov 22, 2003)

jerry_plakyda said:


> Pizzo said:
> 
> 
> > LOON said:
> ...


 Good link, very informative.

I'm going to start the salt treatment tomorrow morning. If not, i guess i gotta nuke the tank with chemicals









I'll keep you guys posted...hopefully salt will do the trick.


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## Rednats (Apr 30, 2004)

Since P's are carnivores, it's normal that some oil and grease from animal fats (yes, including fish meat especially pink meat) get stuck in their gills. In the wild, these fatty deposits get washed up in the water after a while. In captivity, lack of water change lowers the ability of water to clear up their gills. SOLUTION: Change your water (50%) at least 2x a week or do it more often in smaller amounts.

Therefore, scratching is normal for P's in captivity when water is dirty or oily. Yes, even if there are no oil slicks in the tank. If there are oil slicks on top then you're way way way behind your water change schedule.


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