# new 150G High Light/CO2 Projet



## reefteach

Follow me on my first planted tank experience.










Pretty boring eh mates?









Here is my order, but the lights are not here yet!!!! so i must improvise:

micro sword8
anubias 8
java fern 15
ludwigia 12
wisteria 10
amazon sword med8
amozn swrd Large7
ghost shrimp1oo
jap dwarf rush4










OK. I have everything but the CO2 Ready. I know it goes against everything I have read here, But I am putting the plants in the 150, despite the fact that I do not have my CO2 system ready. (I have everything but the tank)










This Flourite dust has to clear. And lets put the Power Compacts on.









Dust clearing, but I am addicted to the biowheel, so I am installing until the CO2 is up and running










It is clearing up. The 4x96 are on a timer(Home depot). I think everything is OK so far. It will sit as is until Monday,


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## Curley

MAN CANT WAIT!!!


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## wally43

gunna look nice man


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## therizman1

Just keep an eye on water parameters and such to try to avoid an algae bloom.

Also, remember that most of those plants were probably grown emersed, so they will all loose their emersed leaves within the next month and have to grow new.


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## xxwhookiddxx

its gonna look so good


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## Genin

holy plants batman. that is going to be a jungle in there. i bet it will look awesome!


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## reefteach

New pictutes will be up this evening. everything is great. I had to scrape some brown algae from the glass, but that was expected.
Quick Question: I have checked the boards and it appears that i should set the blubble couter at 2-3 bpm, and the pH controller @ 1.0 below what it is now. It currently is 8.1, So I will set it at 7.1, giving me aprox 30ppm of CO2. I also will make sure check valves are installed. I pick up the 15# tank today.
Does this sound right to everybody?


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## SAFETYpin

reefteach said:


> New pictutes will be up this evening. everything is great. I had to scrape some brown algae from the glass, but that was expected.
> Quick Question: I have checked the boards and it appears that i should set the blubble couter at 2-3 bpm, and the pH controller @ 1.0 below what it is now. It currently is 8.1, So I will set it at 7.1, giving me aprox 30ppm of CO2. I also will make sure check valves are installed. I pick up the 15# tank today.
> Does this sound right to everybody?


Sounds right to me compared to what ive read anyway.


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## reefteach

Here is what it looked like this moring:










Some of the plants were pulled up, so I started adding some more flourite. 3 bags total. That should them down.

I decided to calibrate the pH controller before I hooked up the 15# CO2 tank. WOW, was it off. It reads 6.4!!!!

I didn't test it before the plants were put in. Could it be that the plant leaves that are falling off are causing a drop in pH?
I'm kind of afraid to hook up the CO2 before I at least do a water change.

I suspect the h2o is full of nitrates and phosphates, but was counting on the plants eating that up.

I am begining to find out what was meant by "monioring levels". At least I am learning early.

I put the lights up on its legs too, and scraped the brown stuff off the front and sides:










I added a few pieces of limestone rock and some driftwood and a powerhead. They will be in the next picture.


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## russm4a3

Looking good keep us informed.


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## Genin

looking good so far. are you planning on aquascaping the tank or are you just going to put the plants in all jungle style? either way i think it will be cool.


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## reefteach

Genin said:


> looking good so far. are you planning on aquascaping the tank or are you just going to put the plants in all jungle style? either way i think it will be cool.


Hahah. I never heard "Jungle Style" before. I like it. Yes it will be jungle style :laugh: I actually thought I did aquascape it. I put most of the small ones up front, mediums in middle, and large in back. But now that you mention it, one must look hard to recognise any pattern. I don't have an artistic bone in my body.







Jungle style is cool though.

I was right about the pH. I did a 50% water change, that brought up the pH to 7.7 . That was high enough to start the CO2. I set it for 6.7 @5 bpm.

I took the Emporer off, but let the biowheels float around.

Since I turned the CO2 on, I am getting microbubbles on the glass, and shot out the magnum. I think using the magnum as a reactor may not be as efficient as I would like. I may build a DIY Reactor out of a gravel siphon.

More pictures tonight.


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## flashover00

limestone rock will effect your ph

What are your params as of right now? 
ph
kh
gh


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## reefteach

flashover00 said:


> limestone rock will effect your ph
> 
> What are your params as of right now?
> ph
> kh
> gh


Honestly, pH is the only one I know.

Here is what it looked like this morning:










I have been putting more rocks in the keep the Ps from pulling up the plants. I anchor the plants under them.










The powerhead was moved. And I did some "customizing" on the light stand. I.E I cut the legs off so it could sit on top of my glass lid.










I hopethe Ps are not sucking air at the surface tomorrow morning.


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## ICEE

loooks good with all those plants

loooks good with all those plants


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## flashover00

start checking all your params....especially kh

I only say this because if your kh is low then your ph will swing all over the place....pain in the ass if you are keeping fish in there


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## Genin

reefteach,

does your CO2 regulator have a solenoid on it? if it does you could set it up on a timer so that the CO2 stop injecting at night when the plants stop taking it in and release it. That would help the Ps with oxygen in the water.

Another option people do is put a bubbler on a timer so it goes on at night to help oxygenate the water for the fish.


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## reefteach

Thanks. I'll check kH and gH.

I have my solenoid hooked up to a pH controller. I was sort of kidding when I mentioned that I feared them sucking air. But it did cross my mind as I watched the pH gradually drop as the CO2 went in, then I had to go home. I'm pretty confidnt everthing is OK. This is the first night my babies are spending with CO2.

I plan on cleaning up the front end of the tank tomorrow.

I know somebody else who does the airstone at night technique. Would this be a bad idea for use with a pH controller?


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## flashover00

If you do it all of the time then its kind of a waste of c02 gas
The reason for the airstone is to put more o2 in the water and expell c02 through surface aggitation.
..but if you are putting the correct amount of c02 in, then you dont need to expell extra....

Mess around with your params for a week or so trying to get the best balance..use the airstone if yo have to.......there is a pinned thread in this forum that goes into detail about co2 levels....its a good read.


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## Round Head

Nice looking.
I have to admit that my best scape will look like a jungle within a month of growth.








But I can tell you now that if you keep plants for a while, you will build an urge to organize and scape.
This is a fact and you just can't help yourself no matter how bad you are as a scaper; you will get your elbows wet.
For example, what are you gonna do if your foreground plants builds up a nice thick mat and prevents your vision to appreciate those other plants? Its a chain reaction addiction, once your ferts schedule compliments your lighting and CO2, then your plants will grow like weeds. What are you gonna do then when you can't even see the fish? Hehehehe, you will trim my friend, trust me, you will trim and replant, and rescape.

Have fun.


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## DiPpY eGgS

Feeding time for RBP's has to be one of the trickiest things to do with a high light planted tank..

All the ammonia released as they tear up their food can trigger a bloom, so I would suggest feeding bite sized chunks as a rule.
Then, when all of them go potty in there, it should screw up your maintained nitrate levels..
Should be a tricky, and interesting thread.


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## Dimebag

Looking great. Amazing job


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## reefteach

I lost my kH and gH cards, but did the test to the best of my ability.

kH: turned light yellow with 5 drops, so that means 50-100. If it supposed to be dark or bright yellow, 100-200.

gH: 200-400, possably higher.

The ph was 7.0 when I came in. I'm assuming this is due the CO2 in the water. So I am doing an experiment. I atached an air pump to the powerhead, put the biowheel on, and unpluged the CO2. I want to watch the pH go up as CO2 leaves. After 30 min, CO2 went up .1 . I probably won't let it get up very high. I just want to make sure everything I read is true.

I am seeing root growth and runners stetching already.


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## reefteach

The experiment worked. After 1.5 hours, the pH went to 1.2. That was fun. Unhooked the experiment, and started CO2 again.

I have to get a new micron filter for the Magnum. It is trashed after all of that dust. I have sprayed it multiple times witha hose, but now that seems to be doing nothing. I put the filter from the HOT inside the 350. I'll set up the HOT tomorrow with a new micron.


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## BlackSunshine

wow! you're off to an amazing start. Nothing wrong with jungle style its more natural and is a scaping all in itself.

I don't know if I'd call you're high light since technically you're only at 2.5wpg. so I think you're going to be ok. The tank does look great tho keep us up to date on this. I can't wait to see how it grows out.


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## reefteach

here is what it looked like in the morning:










Thanks for reminding me about the lights. I am now adding the 30x4 flourescents(New full spectrums) for 3.4 WPG. I increased CO2 to 8BPM. I also moved everything to the back of the tank, and bought a dozen snails. Here it now:









I don't think I metioned that I dosed W/ flourite yesterday. I also ordered an assortment of other ferts. I think the plants are starting to get hungry









Tomorrow I'll get the HOT 250 running.


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## flashover00

nice...put up picks when they explode with growth


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## reefteach

I'm having some algae dusting, and the start of some green hair algae.

pH:6.8
NH3: .25
NO2:0
NO3:20
*PO3*: *2*

I know PO3 of 2 is high enough for an algae problem. BUT, I also did an O2 test and I'm still saturated 99%. So I decided to crank up the CO2 to bring the pH down to 6.4.

I also shortened the lights a little to 10 hours.
I bought 3 small algae eaters, and 2 small algae eating rays.
Am I going to need to change the water to manage this, OR will my massive bioload eat that phosphate up in a day or 2 when their growth really kicks in? 
I was afraid to put anything in my system that said you must not let it contact your skin. I'm going mor natural.

I also got my HOT magnum running with a micron.


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## Genin

I am still tagging along on this to see how it starts to really bloom. your piranhas look great in that tank.... so natural looking. have they been uprooting alot? sorry to hear about your algae issues, tackle them now or they will get out of hand.


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## DiPpY eGgS

> I know PO3 of 2 is high enough for an algae problem


Where did you hear that? I and many other hobbyists keep their tanks at .5-2ppm, or even 3ppm 
It's fine. Perfect, in fact your nitrates are perfect too
Bringing the pH down to 6.4 is a great idea. 
It doesn't matter if the nutrients are all used up in the tank, it always helps things out tremendously if you do large weekly water changes. 
But what you want to shoot for is constant levels. Usually, the healthiest plants come from tanks that are dosed so the nutrients stay the same constantly.


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## reefteach

DiPpY eGgS said:


> I know PO3 of 2 is high enough for an algae problem
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you hear that?
Click to expand...

El Twitcho told me in his pinned article "Why a well planted tank doesn't have algae":



> So what if, you provided your plants with everything they need to grow but phosphates? What if you provided plants with Iron, Nitrate, Micronutrients, light and CO2 but not phosphate, what would happen then? Well, the plants would grow until the phosphates were consumed up until nothing. This in turn would mean there'd be some nutrients in your water, CO2, light and Iron, but no phosphates. It would also mean that algae would die almost completely.


It lead me to believe I should keep them at or close to zero.
e
So I guess that the algae is due more to the ammonia then, as well as not enough CO2? Remember, I just took off 2 emporers, and replaced with the Magnums. I figured I wouldn't necessarily need cycle the tank again because it has been established for years. I will feed sparingly until the nitrosomanas and nitrobacters get their populations up where they need to be. Unless you think the ammonia is just from the small amount of plant die off and leaf shedding. I'm letting the biowheels float around the tank.


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## DiPpY eGgS

> El Twitcho told me in his pinned article "Why a well planted tank doesn't have algae":


This is not current in the hobby. 2ppm of phosphate is exactly where you want to be
If you run 0 phosphates, you will have the nastiest case of Green Spot Algea ever. Don't overdo it, for sure, because that can cause problems as well. 
Ammonia can cause green water. But plants love ammonia. Somehow, a spike that sticks around too long causes the problem. The spike should be unreadable when the GW blooms, and that is the wierd part for me to understand.
But changing your setup always means you need to check your water params for a few days or a week.. plants seem to appreciate unchanging water params. That is why it is very good to test your water for plant uptake of macros.. and I'm learning that mixing ferts so that you know exactly how many ppm you are putting into the water helps that tremendously..
(more on that after a good while lol)


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## reefteach

​
I cranked the CO2 to lower the pH to 6.3-6.4. I believe that was a great decision because the algae really didn't grow much today. The BPM is at about 60, because I wanted to really force feed the plants some CO2. I think it worked. Some of the plants were producing gas at such a rapid rate, that gas bubbles were spewing from the leaves. I don't know if they were metabolized O2 bubbles, or unmetabolized CO2 spilling out of a broken xylem or floem. either way, the Ps were still breathing fine.

I will check on things tomorow, and update a picture Monday.


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## DiPpY eGgS

ideal CO2ppm is 30-45 for a high light tank

Algea will certainly thrive with a deficiency in CO2, for sure

At the end of the day, some plants might be rolling O2 from the leaves, from the water being supersaturated. But also, plants can spew gasses out from any puncture or wound that it may have as well
the way to be sure is to look underneath the leaves. If the bubbles are comming from there, it is pearling.


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## reefteach

I was able to check on the tank today. NO NEW HAIR ALGAE!!!. Bumping the CO2 was key. The brown dust algae seems to still be staying, but I have plenty of ghost shrimp, 2 small algae eating rays, 15 assorted snails, and 3 autosinclas(sp?), keeping it from taking hold. I suspect that once the plants really start growing it will go away.
My ferts came in today







, so I dosed with the following Flourish products:
Flourish
trace
iron
potassium

I have a nitrogen, but didn't dose it because my nitrates were fine yesterday.


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## DiPpY eGgS

what is your phosphate ppm? Just curious..









The brown dust sounds like diatoms, it will go away with regular weekly maintenance. Or it should. Cherry red shrimp, and amano shrimp eat way more algea than ghost shrimp. Ghost shrimp are great for taking care of food scraps, but not algea.
algea eating rays sounds really cool lol
and ottocinclus cats are great algea eaters.


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## flashover00

lol..if you want some hair algae call me. I'm currently harvesting the most resilient algae on the face of the planet


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## reefteach

DiPpY eGgS said:


> what is your phosphate ppm? Just curious..


2ppm. No changes. Batteries in the camera still dead.


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## reefteach

Well, the plants are really starting to show some good growth, and the algae problem is under control. I think the plants are finally outcompeting it. I dosed with Flourish, trace, iron, and potasium today. after I did, I noticed my Ps were taking big, slightly faster breaths. I checked my 02, and it is down to 4ppm, or about 50%. It used to be 100%. I'm upping the photoperiod to 12 hours/day. I was at 10 hours/D. Maybe this will give me some more O2, and use less durring the night cycle. Still no batteries, so I will try for a new pic tomorrow.
The Ps are leaving the plants alone. Every once in a while a skinny one will float away, but for the most part, they are all staying put. I can see really good root structure starting to form when I stick my head under the tank and look up.


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## reefteach

OK, these are from my camera phone, so they are not very clear, but you can still make out the difference in growth.










And the left










And the right:










Man those are small.


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## Genin

yeah the tank looks really nice and full. good job.


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## flashover00

get big pics!! LOL
I wanna see growth


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## reefteach

OK. I went back to work with new batteries and took some decent pics. I just barely beat the hail storm home. which wouldn't have been that bad, but I rode the motorcycle(still not that bad) with a bald rear tire. It was worth it. Here they are:

Full shots:










and










Right side w/ flash:










Left w/ flash;









R no F:









L no F:


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## flashover00

very green....i like it man.


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## reefteach

Looks like I left some catfish chucnks in there. Ooops. Here is the comparison so far:





































I guess it is now time to read some articles and posts about trimming.


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## Genin

awesome man. yeah you need to trim a little, lol.


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## QWERTY1830

That looks wicked awesome man good job...


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## platinum1683

that looks great!


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## reefteach

So I was gone for a week, and was expecting to come back to a mess of green slime. didn't happen, but it did get pretty huge:

front:









right:









left;










So, time to trim. Here is what it looks like after trimming:

front:









Right;










Left:









But what to do with the clippings? I am discarding all of the uprooted skinny red plants. Not much root structure to hold them. I am also throwing out various cuttings:










But I still have lots left over, so why not start another planted tank!!!!








New








and new close:


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## flashover00

LOL...SO MANY PLANTS IN THERE....awesome man!
Very green and lush

I bet your P's love it (if they can swim through all of that haha)


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## reefteach

flashover00 said:


> LOL...SO MANY PLANTS IN THERE....awesome man!
> Very green and lush
> 
> I bet your P's love it (if they can swim through all of that haha)


Thanks,

I read over and over again that when starting a CO2 tank, start with lots of plants. It seemed to work. The more growth I had, the less algae there was. There is NO hair algae. A little green stuff on the glass, some staghorn, but managable.

How often do you guys calibrate your pH meter/regulator?

I think I will be selling a lot of swords soon for cheap. stay tuned.

The P's do love it, and can move Ok as long as they stay low. I predict they will be getting horny within the next month.


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## Genin

you know those sword plants are pretty phalic. you are definately setting the scene for some *bow chicka bow wow* (that was the love makin' music)


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## DiPpY eGgS

> How often do you guys calibrate your pH meter/regulator?


lol- You are supposed to calibrate monthly, but I did it 1ce in a year and it was off by .1


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## reefteach

Evrything is fine, but my pH is quite a bit lower in the morning than my 122 controller is set for. I calibrated and set for 6.3. But in the morning, no bubbles are being pumped, but the pH is 5.4 .

Anyone care to take a stab at why pH gets so low at night. It begins raising durring the day, until the CO2 kicks in.


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## DiPpY eGgS

The only thing I can think of is the controller isn't working right. Mine sometimes sticks on all day, and I have to mess with it..
Sorry I'm not any more help here


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## Round Head

Plants don't feed at night therefore leaving the CO2 concentration at a steady high. Then when they wake up and start to feed, the CO2 begin to deplenish until your CO2 feed kicks in.
To prove it for yourself, check for CO2 and ph an hour before lights go out, then check again an hour after lights go out, take a third check an hour before lights and CO2 kicks in, and finally do another check an hour after lights and CO2 are running.


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## reefteach

Its Breeding season again!! Unfortunately it appears I do not have any males









A female made a nest, and layed eggs. She circled it for about 24 hours, then abandoned it and let the feeders eat the eggs. The other 2 Ps were just not interested at all.

Besides that, nothing new. Everything is massive as ever, no algae problems, their breathing since i turned the pH up slightly. The growing has slowed, but everything is healthy.


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## Genin

healthy is good. too bad about the wasted nest.


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## Sacrifice

Any Updates...first time I've read this thread.


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## ryanimpreza

how much co2 are you running per minute


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