# Piranha's Arent Eating... HELP!



## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm stumped guys, also worried. My six red bellies haven't been eating for a while, three days to be exact. One of the red bellies is lacking in size, and I have a feeling he's going to be targeted sooner or later if this keeps up. They're roughly 4-5" right now. The only thin they'll eat right now is feeder fish, and I only fed them that as a last resort.

I change 15% of the water weekly, only moved a few plants around within the week, and everything else seems to be okay (nitrate levels may be off alittle). Their diet right now is just beef blended with fish, I went to Big Al's yesterday to pick up some krill, and no luck. Just sinks at the bottom and they just swim by it like it's nothing.

So what could be the problem? Nitrate levels are too high? If so, what can I do to reduce the levels?
Any suggestions would be really appreciated!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

please post your water params.... also -- what size tank? what kind of filter are you running? what is the water temp in the tank?


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

joedizzlempls said:


> please post your water params.... also -- what size tank? what kind of filter are you running? what is the water temp in the tank?


Sorry - I'm not that familiar with water parameters, can you explain?

It's a 85 gallon tank, and it's a standard filter, I believe it's a Tetra (came with the package). It's roughly 28C in there, I would think if its warmer the piranhas would be alittle more agressive.

-- By the way nice pitbull







, I have a four year old one, pure breed!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

when people ask for water parameters, they usually want the results of your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph tests.

your temp should be fine, i'm pretty sure 28 c is about 82 f...

you are definitely going to need to upgrade filters, there is no way that a tetra filter that came with the kit can handle the bio load of six 4-5" natts. i'd like to know your water params before i say anything for sure, but i would guess that your water quality may have something to do with your problem.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Could I buy one kit that tells me all of those test? Or are they all separate. I went to Big Al's yesterday and I believe it was $40 for a nitrate level kit. Is it just the tools to test the nitrate level? Or is there something included that helps reduce it? If not, what can I help reduce it?

Sorry I'm really newbie when it comes to things like this!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

aquarium pharmacueticals sells a freshwater master test kit that contains test tubes and bottles of testing solution for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph. i ordered mine from big als online and i think i paid $25 or something like that. you'll definitely want to get a test kit, but if you can't get one right now, at least take a water sample down to your lfs and have them test it for you and right down the results.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Great, I'm gonna head out and buy that right now then - So after I tested everything, and all the levels seem to be high, how can I reduce the levels? New filter, live plants and so on?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

well, we'll have to figure out exactly what we're dealing with first, just test your water and then post your params here and we'll go from there.

i can say for sure that you're gonna need another filter on that tank, that's alot of bio load for that filter to handle on its own.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Alright, what filter do you recommend? And what are the price ranges? I'm getting ready to go out right now, mind as well pick it up today too. I just got $200 for my birthday, hope it'll be enough.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

there are plenty of good filters out there... adding an ac110 would definitely do the trick, you should be able to pick one up for around $75


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Perfect, I'm heading there now to buy the kits and possibly the filter. Anything else I should buy? Different food or anything like that?


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

jamezgt said:


> Perfect, I'm heading there now to buy the kits and possibly the filter. Anything else I should buy? Different food or anything like that?


One AC110 and hikari bio gold chiclid pellets med size....


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i would stick to raw shrimp, catfish or tilapia fillets, and pellets... shrimp and fish fillets can be purchased at the grocery store and i use hikari bio gold pellets, you could pick those up at your lfs if you don't have pellets already

i would eliminate the beef from their diet as well....


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

wait, does big al's sell these hikari pellets? my piranhas are VERY picky when it comes to food, do these pellets sink?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

big als should sell them... piranhas can be trained to eat just about anything, so i wouldn't worry about them being picky, at least get the beef out of their diet and start feeding raw shrimp, then you can work on getting them to eat pellets


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

i tried feeding them raw shrimp, they'll just swim right above it and stare at me for countless hours. should i continue this? i bought some krill, and they're kind of eating it after 30 minutes later


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

yeah, it's definitely important to get them eating healthy foods, if you switch over to shrimp and they don't take right to it, just keep trying and feed only shrimp until they eat it. you can do the same thing with pellets, just keep trying and they'll come around


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

so completely eliminate the beef, and force them to eat the shrimp? i have tons of shrimp at home that i get from an asian grocery store, that should be fine right? is there a huge difference between krill and shrimp?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

as long as the shrimp is raw and doesn't have anything added to it, it should be fine. shrimp is obviously bigger and krill is usually cooked a bit, i usually feed krill to very small fish then switch to raw shrimp when they get a bit bigger.


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## kfreeman (Feb 14, 2008)

First off 3 days is nothing. I think u are worried for nothing. I read the first 3 post of this and I had read enough. You are new to tanks and that is great but you might be over doing it with starting out with p's. But I do wish you all the best with them just don't flush them if you find they are more than you thought you could keep up with. I am not trying to be a smarta$$ it just I have seen this alot and it usually goes bad for the fish. But you have came to the right site for advice. Best of luck.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

3 days without eating isn't a major problem, but when they suddenly refuse food like that, it can be a red flag that something isn't quite right.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I've bought the testing kit, my nitrate is above average as well as my GH. One of the workers recommended I buy something to put in my filter to reduce the nitrate levels, but he didn't think my GH levels would be high.

What else could I do to help reduce the levels of nitrate & GH?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

you don't need to put anything in your filter to reduce nitrate.... just perform regular water changes to keep nitrates in check


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

alright - couple more questions...

1) do all live plants need light or is there some of them that do not need any light in order to live.

2) my piranhas are terrified by the light i have so that's why i'm asking about question #1 - is there anything I can buy that will dim the lights down a bit? i've heard people use party wrappings but i don't feel too comfortable with that.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

^^^ Why are you worried about the lights. Dont dim the lights thats just retarded and a waste of your time. Your Ps will get used to the light. Put in on a timer for 10 hours. Trust me about the lights, there are people running WAY more light than you with no problems.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

SeedlessOne said:


> ^^^ Why are you worried about the lights. Dont dim the lights thats just retarded and a waste of your time. Your Ps will get used to the light. Put in on a timer for 10 hours. Trust me about the lights, there are people running WAY more light than you with no problems.


The moment I turn the lights on, my piranhas just scatter and run into every object in sight. Just earlier one of the piranhas almost jumped out of the tank (didn't even know that was possible).

So should I still leave the lights on for a couple of hours to get them used to it, I'm not 100% sure you guys are the experts, but wouldn't that stress them even more?


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Get your water situtation under control then you can add plants later. There is ALOT more then just tossing them in there. I have learned that. They wont starve themselves just be patient. Offer them food if they dont eat it then no biggie. Trust me I know what you are going thru. 99% of the ppl on her more then likely do. Just a waiting game. They will start eating soon


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

lo4life said:


> Get your water situtation under control then you can add plants later. There is ALOT more then just tossing them in there. I have learned that. They wont starve themselves just be patient. Offer them food if they dont eat it then no biggie. Trust me I know what you are going thru. 99% of the ppl on her more then likely do. Just a waiting game. They will start eating soon


Thanks for the advice - really appreciate it.

I'm going to do a 30% water change tomorrow morning after I get some equipment to help reduce the GH levels.

By the way, I popped a few krill in there, and one of the big guys just swallowed it down like nothing.


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Trust me Im going through the same thing with my Elong right now. He eats very little but the way I look at it is he is still eating something. They will come around in time. The light situtation they just have to get used to. Hell I have had my fish for going on 4 months now and he still kinda jumps when I turn the lights on. Go to the plant forum and read read read up on things. TON of info on there that Dippy has provided along with some others. Dippy has a pinned thread up I think the title is something about thinking about setting up a planted aquarium. Its something like that. Read that whole thing and you will get a better understanding of things. GL with everything!!!!


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Yeah your Ps will get used to the light in no time. It will help them a lot to put the lights on a timer. Run the lights for 10 hours a day. Start reading in the plant section....


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks for the info guys.

I just turned on the lights and they seem to be pretty calm for some reason (good news). They spazzed out for the first couple of minutes but when I came back downstairs they were just taking shelter.

Aside from water changes and a stronger filter, is there anything I can do to reduce the nitrate & GH levels? (By the way, I was about to buy a Canister Filter for $200, what are your thoughts on that?)


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

jamezgt said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> 
> I just turned on the lights and they seem to be pretty calm for some reason (good news). They spazzed out for the first couple of minutes but when I came back downstairs they were just taking shelter.
> 
> Aside from water changes and a stronger filter, is there anything I can do to reduce the nitrate & GH levels? (By the way, I was about to buy a Canister Filter for $200, what are your thoughts on that?)


If I were you I would buy 2 AC110 for that size tank.


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## FEEFA (Nov 19, 2007)

SeedlessOne said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> 
> I just turned on the lights and they seem to be pretty calm for some reason (good news). They spazzed out for the first couple of minutes but when I came back downstairs they were just taking shelter.
> 
> Aside from water changes and a stronger filter, is there anything I can do to reduce the nitrate & GH levels? (By the way, I was about to buy a Canister Filter for $200, what are your thoughts on that?)


If I were you I would buy 2 AC110 for that size tank.
[/quote]
Agreed, run the ac and the filter it came with aswell and you're fine.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Feefa said:


> Thanks for the info guys.
> 
> I just turned on the lights and they seem to be pretty calm for some reason (good news). They spazzed out for the first couple of minutes but when I came back downstairs they were just taking shelter.
> 
> Aside from water changes and a stronger filter, is there anything I can do to reduce the nitrate & GH levels? (By the way, I was about to buy a Canister Filter for $200, what are your thoughts on that?)


If I were you I would buy 2 AC110 for that size tank.
[/quote]
Agreed, run the ac and the filter it came with aswell and you're fine.
[/quote]

Where can I purchase the AC110 within the GTA? And what is the price range on that.


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## SeedlessOne (Nov 21, 2006)

Not sure what the GTA is but most petstore should have them. They run around 75bucks. I would just order it online. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...cfm?pcatid=3610 80 bucks from the docs. You could find it a tad cheaper if you look around. I would scrap that filter you are using and run two ac110. But even if you only get one and run the filter you have now it would help tons...


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Wait, that link you just posted is the AC110? If it is... I'm pretty dumb. My dad use to have tons of aquariums and we have around five of those downstairs in the basement, and I'm actually using one for my feeder fish right below my aquarium.

And I have to admit, my feeder fish tank is PRETTY clean! I just assumed that the filter that came with my aquarium was better then the other ones in my basement. If this is the case I'll just use the ones in the basement and see how that goes...


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

make sure that you keep the filter thats on your tank running as well... if you take that off and start new filters, you'll be starting the cycling process all over again.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Can anyone confirm if that url is the AC110?

If not, I'm going to purchase the canister for $200 when I goto the fish store tomorrow.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i think that's a smaller model that is pictured, but those are aquaclear filters and you can order the AC 110 on that page... what canister are you looking at for $200?


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm not 100% sure, the manager was talking about it and showed me it. I THINK it's Ehem, something along those lines?

I've been hearing good things about the AC110, but canisters look promising as well.


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## Piranha_man (Jan 29, 2005)

I'm surprised this thread has gone this far without having been moved to the "Feeding and Nutrition" forum.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

canister filters are definitely nice, but i don't use them because i think they are ridiculously overpriced and i hate the maintenance... on smaller tanks, i stick to Aquaclear HOBs and on larger tanks i like wet/dry filters. i think its all personal preference on smaller tanks tho, if you have the cash to burn, a canister would work just the same.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm just curious on how the canisters are high maintenance, a couple of websites that I was just reading said they were low maintenance, but it would seem to be high maintenance to me. Is it constant switching of the filters inside? Gets clogged? Fill me in!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

they aren't too bad, but i just got sick of having to disconnect everything, take the filter apart, and replace and/or rinse the filter media, then you gotta put everything back together. with an hob, it's a 30 second process to rinse or feplace filter media, and with a wet/dry, you just take out the prefilter pad and replace that every few weeks, and that also takes about 30 seconds. some people may not mind the extra work, but with all the tanks i have running, maintenance becomes an issue.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

I see - well I'll talk to the guys at the store again. My main concern right now is to get the water levels back to normal, I'll ill you in tomorrow, you've been a great help









By the way - I left the lights on for a couple of hours now, and I dropped a few pieces of krill and it was gone within ten minutes - that's some good news. I only dropped three pieces in, and I know not every piranha had it's share, how much krill do you usually feed in one serving?


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i don't really feed krill unless the fish are really small, but i fed a handful or so of raw shrimp to my 8 pygos when they were around that size


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Alright - well I'm eliminating beef from their diet and switching over to krill/shrimp/raw fish. I guess I can feed them krill for a week or two and try to combine raw shrimp in there too. Is that a smart decision?


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Yea that will work. Just rotate their diet as much as you can. If you dont its like you eating the same thing everyday. If you want to buy the canister go right ahead. I can tell you from experience that I love Eheims. I have the 2217 on my tank right now and its VERY quiet. My power head makes more noise then the canister does.


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Great, I just found a Eheim 2028 on craigslist I'm going to check it out right now.

He's asking for $180 CAD for the filter, upgraded spray bar (no idea what that is) and an upgraded intake surface skimmer. Sounds reasonable to me, all I need to get are new hoses because I guess his are worn out. Sound good?


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## lo4life (Aug 12, 2008)

Yea sounds good to me. Trust me if you get it you will love how quiet it is. Leave your old filters on your tank!


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Nov 5, 2007)

i'd see if he'll take a bit less than that seeing as how you need to replace the hoses... if you look hard enough, i'm sure you could find a new 2028 for a couple hundred bucks


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## jamezgt (Jun 24, 2008)

Basically the $180 is going towards the filter, all the media, an upgraded skimmer and some live plants. He's also going to pop in a Eheim Sludge Extractor because my vacuum isn't too effective for some reason.

And do the hoses of the canister go completely down in the tank with suction cups? Or do they just hover on top. And everyone is telling me to keep the old filter in there, what's the reason for that if I have a better filter?


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## Restricted- (Aug 21, 2008)

I didnt read the whole thread but I had this problem (not eating) so I was told to put shrimp in my tank overnigh, that seemed to work quite well. Try scallops, my 3" reds love them.


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## SERRAPYGO (Feb 4, 2003)

Piranha_man said:


> I'm surprised this thread has gone this far without having been moved to the "Feeding and Nutrition" forum.


Because it's more of a fish behaviour issue rather than a feeding problem.


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