# Prisoner Abuse



## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Ok. Up until this morning I was taking a high road on the prisoner abuse scandal. I thought people were over-reacting and using it as an excuse to crucify the president and his cabinet. However, this latest image to come out has really got me changing my opinion. The sheer look of fear in this mans face is haunting me and the news that the Red Cross issued a report way before this scandel that we were violating the Geneva Convention in our treatment of prisoners is starting to sicken me.

I believe Bush didnt know anything about it but will pay a serious price for this. I support him and his administration 100% and only hope they can navigate their way out of this and make positive changes in the process to restore the faith and honor of the American people.


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

That's some F'ed up sh*t. I think Bush is making a huge mistake by not firing Rumsfield or however you spell his name.


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

it has been going on in every war we have fought of, there just wasnt 24hr news to see it, plus our men are being killed and only killing the ones who are trying to kill them, and when our men get captured they get totured to, i have heard of horrible stories of this

i think that people just dont like bush, i do and i stand by what he stays, he also makes me laff a lot


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

did he know about YES..commander and chief and he doesn't know whats going on in his own army???..he knew.millions of soldiers and no word got out??i really don't care who wins the presidenecy cause its all a big joke..i believe in war all is fair..hey they drag american bodies through the streets..all naked..parading..cheering..yeah i really hate to say this..because of lot of innocent people have died..children..mothers..do you hear anything about that? bomb after bomb being dropped..either way you look at it ..its a very sad situation


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## Kain (Mar 13, 2003)

thePACK said:


> did he know about YES..commander and chief and he doesn't know whats going on in his own army???..he knew.millions of soldiers and no word got out??i really don't care who wins the presidenecy cause its all a big joke..i believe in war all is fair..hey they drag american bodies through the streets..all naked..parading..cheering..yeah i really hate to say this..because of lot of innocent people have died..children..mothers..do you hear anything about that? bomb after bomb being dropped..either way you look at it ..its a very sad situation


 Couldnt have said it better myself....but just one thing.....this quote came directly out of cnn. Im not quite sure if its accurate or not so its up to you to decide.



> The leaked report from February by the International Committee of the Red Cross found that up to 90 percent of Iraqis held by U.S. and allied troops have been arrested by mistake, and those considered likely intelligence sources faced coercion that in some cases was "tantamount to torture


You can read about it here

Its one thing if its hostile forces that the soldiers were doing this to but if its innocent civilians then its another story. 90% is a pretty friggin high number.
Kinda hard to believe in my opinion..


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## sweet lu (Oct 3, 2003)

true

but we dont go through a kill people and rip them up and light them on fire and sit, we drop drop acid on them and strave them

sure we make them naked and tie them up in odd positions but we dont kill them

the USA has always done stuff like this, in WW2 we would toture people to death sometimes and put them through unthinkable stuff. in Vietnam we did the same, this is the real first time it has been broadcasted to the world and everyone knows about it

bush did know, how couldnt he


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## badforthesport (Jan 8, 2004)

i thought there was no rules in war. kill or be killed. thats about it. they did it... we cant?


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## deadhead (Dec 29, 2003)

I feel for anyone who is abused in prison or out.
But why doesnt the American population realize this goes on daily in our own prisons and also in prisons throughout the whole world.
Not just in Iraq.
This war is just getting to be ridiculous, lets pull out and have whatever is left of the UN try and restore the peace if America and our Allies are doing such a horrible job.


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## MR.FREEZ (Jan 26, 2004)

i wonder why more prisoners dont have an accident and die why f*ck with em

edit : is this one of the reasons for the new warning in red


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## Selecta (May 31, 2003)

War or not it was really stupid, no help to a very unstable situation. I hope the resistance doesn’t get any crazy ideas next time they capture someone. I'm all for the coalition, but its unfortunate some people would sink to that level. I just hope that everything doesn’t get pinned on these 6 or 7 people cause there has to be a few CO’s, military or civilian intelligence workers that knew this was going on.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

i dont think the UN is gonna help that much, Al Quida is most likley behind some of these rebels and if that is indeed so, then the UN will NOT restore peace, because Al Quida respects not even the UN, heck Osama has even put a bounty on the head of some UN boss


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

I think that everyone that turned a blind eye, that crooked f*ck Rumsfelt first and foremost, should be held accountable and get the punishment they deserve. Iraqi's that commited crimes against humanity or war crimes will be tried: so should Americans (and in particular those that are responsible for the troops and had the power to make a difference...)

Should Bush be punished/tried for this? No, the upcoming elections will be his judgement day (at least I hope the US has regained its senses after 4 years of Bush).
Should Rumsfelt be tried? Imo, yes: he's a war criminal, no more, no less.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

sweet lu said:


> it has been going on in every war we have fought of, there just wasnt 24hr news to see it, plus our men are being killed and only killing the ones who are trying to kill them, and when our men get captured they get totured to, i have heard of horrible stories of this
> 
> i think that people just dont like bush, i do and i stand by what he stays, he also makes me laff a lot


 It's like saying "You sexually abused my kids, so imma sexually abuse yours!"

Does the action of a few arabs justify a collective punishment type approach?


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

sweet lu said:


> true
> 
> but we dont go through a kill people and rip them up and light them on fire and sit, we drop drop acid on them and strave them
> 
> ...


 Actually the 1000 pictures that Rumsfeld reviewed supposedly included rape, sodomy, and murder. We are seeing the preview of what has happened. I think that this will mark what many ppl will die over on both sides for the next few years. Hatred.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

MoeMZA said:


> sweet lu said:
> 
> 
> > it has been going on in every war we have fought of, there just wasnt 24hr news to see it, plus our men are being killed and only killing the ones who are trying to kill them, and when our men get captured they get totured to, i have heard of horrible stories of this
> ...


 Well said. Again, and Xenon brought it up in the first post, for civilized nations there are two words to remember: Geneva Convention.

Started in the 19th century but the third (I think) one after WWII really set the stage for "war crimes". These are "war crimes".


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## rbp75 (May 2, 2004)

I have yet to see any proof of phyisical torture on any iraqs, if there were than I dissagree with it. but all of the pics I have seen to this point were all psychological and as it may go against the religion of these people to be naked with other men so what. and if there are innocent men this is happening too than thats a shame but its a casulty of war and its alot better then being killed or physically tortured. Stories I have herd of people being hazed in fraternities dont differ much from what I see and hear that these men have gone through so when it boils down to the inhumanity of it its really not that bad... but thats just my opinion


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## scrapedogg (Apr 28, 2003)

Everyone who says that Bush knew all about this stuff, think of what you're saying. There are probably 50 people in line who are in charge of the soldiers treating the prisoners this way, and I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there looking for revenge, and being pissed off over being in a country where tehy're getting shot at by the people they're trying to help. Do you think that in casual conversation it's going to come up like "so Mr. President, should we torture the sh*t out of the iraqis??" What would that serve? they're not trying to catch saddam anymore. I agree that it's really shitty that this was going on, and think that there should be some repercussions, but knowing our friggin' governmetn, there'll be an investigation committe, then a panel, then a committee to investigate the investigation committee, and in 15 years they'll start pointing fingers at Bush again, and try to fix the past through a council, just like they're doing with 9/11. I hope they're able to straighten this sh*t out, and just move on.


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

It was the third convention, here is an excellent link. Note that nazis were executed because of their violation of these sorts of things. War crimes are not a joke. (although these mistreatments are far from the holocaust, they are still punishable under international law)

http://www.globalissuesgroup.com/geneva/convention3.html


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## acestro (Jul 7, 2003)

It actually saddens me how this has become political, I don't know how they punish leaders, etc. for war crimes but it is more about the people who did it first.
Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, blah blah. As Americans we should be disgusted by what happens to our people there (and do something about it....we are) and we should be disgusted at how some idiots on our side are making things worse (and we and the international community needs to do something about it).


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## t_h_e_s_a_c_k (Nov 16, 2003)

That is disgusting.

Makes me feel proud to be Canadian.


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

c'mon guys..let put it like this..if i was against you and i was tossing grandes and shooting ak-47 to kill you..would you really treat me great??..feed me three meals a day??..talk about the good days and talk about the lakers and spurs games??..i think not...your not going to feel anytype of remorse for a person thats trying to take your life.

i know i wouldn't..


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

thePACK said:


> c'mon guys..let put it like this..if i was against you and i was tossing grandes and shooting ak-47 to kill you..would you really treat me great??..feed me three meals a day??..talk about the good days and talk about the lakers and spurs games??..i think not...your not going to feel anytype of remorse for a person thats trying to take your life.
> 
> i know i wouldn't..


 What's the difference with being shot at by an M-16, or an Apache gunship, for that matter? Does that give Iraqi's the right to torture or dehumanize American POW's? Does it make it justifyable?
It would be a huge outcry if even a minute portion of what happened in those prisons would happen to American POW's, so there's no downtalking this...

There's *no* excuse for acts like these, and the ones who commited them and those responsible should be punished for it.


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

I started to feel really disgusted when I saw this particular picture today also. I think it is just terribly sad what some of our soldiers have done, with orders or without. I also think it is really sad to see Americans trying to find ways of justifying these actions, especially since some of those people are the same ones saying we went to Iraq to 'liberate'







.


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## StuartDanger (Aug 7, 2003)

this sort of stuf happens in everywar i gaurantee it, its just that now with technology and stupid peopel who let the pictures get sent to people who will relase them to the media did this. 
it is a horrible thing that is happening and it is not fair what the us,uk,irag troops are doing (i rekon the irags have done it aswell).

bottom line is, sh*t happens, im not saying well done to the soldiers in the pictures but i am saying it probably would have happened to them if they had not done it.


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## mori0174 (Mar 31, 2004)

deadhead said:


> I feel for anyone who is abused in prison or out.
> But why doesnt the American population realize this goes on daily in our own prisons and also in prisons throughout the whole world.
> Not just in Iraq.
> This war is just getting to be ridiculous, lets pull out and have whatever is left of the UN try and restore the peace if America and our Allies are doing such a horrible job.


 My dad worked in a prison, and when he tried to stop the abuse of prisoners, he was harrassed to the point that he needed to be on disability. Prisoners being strapped down to a board for 12 hours beyond what is legal, along with many other things that will be left unsaid. We treat our own prisoners just as bad, and many people dont even know this. The part that I find sad is that once people find out, many wont care because these prisoners "deserve it".


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## englishman (Aug 14, 2003)

the bit on the news that was saying that a woman and boys were raped just made me feel sick


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

my 0.02 is simple its war are any of u reallyt that suprised and as far as abuse goes please make me get naked and make pyramids and take pics of me thats better than what other countried so like umm KILL YOU!!!!!!! lmao screw em all its war there not suppsoed to treat u nice and fuzzy


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

thoroughbred said:


> my 0.02 is simple its war are any of u reallyt that suprised and as far as abuse goes please make me get naked and make pyramids and take pics of me thats better than what other countried so like umm KILL YOU!!!!!!! lmao screw em all its war there not suppsoed to treat u nice and fuzzy


 BINGo!!!!!!!!!!


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## Denver (Mar 18, 2004)

thoroughbred said:


> my 0.02 is simple its war are any of u reallyt that suprised and as far as abuse goes please make me get naked and make pyramids and take pics of me thats better than what other countried so like umm KILL YOU!!!!!!! lmao screw em all its war there not suppsoed to treat u nice and fuzzy


So by that standard I guess we can just start a pre-emptive war, abuse people and make a mockery of the geneva convention and just say it's okay because we are at war?









By the way, no I'm not really surprised it happened. I am surprised there are so many people who feel this type of activity is okay because worse things have been done now or in the past. To me, that's like saying that the Trade Center attacks were okay because Hiroshima was worse, and obviously everyone knows that would be ridiculous to say.


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## scrubbs (Aug 9, 2003)

heres the link to the pdf of the red cross report.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections...ss%20report.pdf


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## upt1me (Jun 26, 2003)

a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear;

f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

i. (S) Writing "I am a Rapest" (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

photos


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

This is only making news because its the US and UK...any other war in history is guaranteed to have these kinds of acts and far worse...its election year...thus we're seeing this kind of widespread publicity.


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## rUBY84 (Jan 8, 2004)

I'm am just sick to death of hearing about these pictures... and "the worst is yet to come" they say... It makes me sick how people treat each other. I hope all the people responsible for this sh*t get what they deserve. Just because they're prisoners does that give the f*cking military the right to abuse, rape and murder them?? This is just making the usa look even worse...

And another thing why the hell would you take pictures and videos??? Someone is obviously going to get ahold of them sooner or later... how intelligent was that? Not just to pick on americans - there was that Canadian guy a few years back (later tried to commit suicide, but ended up with brain damage) - I think he was peace keeper or something was charged with killing a boy(?) in Bosina or where ever they were- pictures were taken of that too. I'm pretty sure thats how he got charged. Why would you take pictures? Thats what i dont understand, its sadistic, like theyre proud of what they did...


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Denver said:


> I am surprised there are so many people who feel this type of activity is okay because worse things have been done now or in the past. To me, that's like saying that the Trade Center attacks were okay because Hiroshima was worse, and obviously everyone knows that would be ridiculous to say.


BINGO!!!

As long as it happens to others, most don't give a f*ck, but as soon as the US is involved, the whole world has to pay?!? F'n hypocrits


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

thePACK said:


> c'mon guys..let put it like this..if i was against you and i was tossing grandes and shooting ak-47 to kill you..would you really treat me great??..feed me three meals a day??..talk about the good days and talk about the lakers and spurs games??..i think not...your not going to feel anytype of remorse for a person thats trying to take your life.
> 
> i know i wouldn't..


 oh yeah? and it gives the right to torture innocents? alot of those ppl being tortured in the prisons are innocent civilians, why should they have to suffer for crimes they didnt commit themselves? i'm not saying all are innocent but alot of them in the prisons are


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## channafreak (Mar 27, 2004)

It is our duty as the country with the most military and financial power to set an example of how we intend on rebuilding iraq with a stable democratic government where all of its citizens can live without fear. To many its seemed we have replaced one dictator with another. Someone has to stop repaying vendettas first to solve any problems and it should be us because we do beleive in freedom and rights. One more point to make is that we are not at war anymore. Saddams regime has fallen. We are fighting for peace and stabilty for a country that needs strong leadership and empathy for its people. We have done neither of those things in the last year except secure an iron clad reason for some militant groups to resist the idea of a US/UN rebuilt Iraq.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

these people would have killed any one of us at any chance they got.. so why should we care? If some person would shoot me if given the chance, then i could care less if that person is made to touch another mans penis.

These people should be happy they did not get shot. they obviously would rather pose nakid then get shot..


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

oh really?, how the hell would you know that Íraqis would kill one of us at any chance they got? have u asked them? if not then just shut up!


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

im saying the people in prison you idiot. where the hell did i mention Iraqies? i was clearly talking about the people in these pics.


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## con man (Mar 7, 2004)

i agree with peacock + we did sh*t 100times as worse in vietnam (we chgopped mens penis's off an stuck them in there own mouths+we raped women) big deal photography....


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

im not saying its Kool to do these things im just saying its better then getting shot and left to die.

Why should you care what happens to them? they would kill you if given the chance.. does that not RING in your head? the Fact these people would enjoy the chance to KILL YOU.


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## englishman (Aug 14, 2003)

> Peacock Posted on May 11 2004, 11:04 AM
> im not saying its Kool to do these things im just saying its better then getting shot and left to die.
> 
> Why should you care what happens to them? they would kill you if given the chance.. does that not RING in your head? the Fact these people would enjoy the chance to KILL YOU.


how do you know that, were you live there will be good and bad people just like iraq you cant tar everyone with the same brush


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## con man (Mar 7, 2004)

it happened b4 this is jut a tactict to get bush under the crossfire sure we shouldnt but we did in vietnam and no1 cared about them and theres no reason to care now (at least were not breaking there bones and the like) were not killin iether and chances r if thy were under attack they would hold u hostage and probly kill u (the iraqui fighters)

i peronally think we should just go roman and take over a bunch of countries to help r economy cuz im not gonan pay over 3 bux a gallon for gas this summer.....


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

con man said:


> i peronally think we should just go roman and take over a bunch of countries to help r economy cuz im not gonan pay over 3 bux a gallon for gas this summer.....


 It's sad to see how many don't even seem to realise how good a life they have...








You're bitching about 3 bucks per gallon being outrageous: in Europe we pay $1,25 per liter (that's 6 bucks per gallon), and in many other countries people don't even make enough money per month to buy a single f*cking gallon of gasoline, let alone have anything that operates on gasoline...

We in the West are so goddamn spoiled (most people on this planet would actually say blessed) but many still don't have enough, still find reasons to moan and kick.

Very sad...









As far as the Iraqi soldiers go: they defend their own country against foreign invaders - damn right they will blow your head off as soon as they get the chance, and can you blame them? You would do the same if the US got invaded (don't even start about the Coalition being liberators - no one outside of the US buys that propagandistic crap anymore....)
Maybe things would have been different if you actually acted like liberators, instead of occupiers - I doubt it, though: the Iraqi's simply don't want the US, UK or whoever to tell them what to do...


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> You're bitching about 3 bucks per gallon being outrageous: in Europe we pay $1,25 per liter (that's 6 bucks per gallon), and in many other countries people don't even make enough money per month to buy a single f*cking gallon of gasoline, let alone have anything that operates on gasoline...


 this can be compared to the pictures.. sorta.

people are bitching about these pictures when the prisoners would do far worse to us.. like the time our 6 people got mutilated in the streets, and most of the people watching were enjoying it..


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## ineedchanna (May 27, 2003)

Peacock said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > You're bitching about 3 bucks per gallon being outrageous: in Europe we pay $1,25 per liter (that's 6 bucks per gallon), and in many other countries people don't even make enough money per month to buy a single f*cking gallon of gasoline, let alone have anything that operates on gasoline...
> ...


 agree


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> We in the West are so goddamn spoiled (most people on this planet would actually say blessed) but many still don't have enough, still find reasons to moan and kick.


 thats because our people MADE it like this.. Our people were not given all this.. we had to fight for it.. you are jealous if you say we are spoiled. If your country operated like ours then you could be in our shoes.

"spoiled"... ohh shut up.. i bet you say rich people are spoiled to.. because they went to college and worked for their money, they are spoiled..

stfu.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Peacock said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > We in the West are so goddamn spoiled (most people on this planet would actually say blessed) but many still don't have enough, still find reasons to moan and kick.
> ...


 What's it with you yanks and acting all defensive? Guilty conscience?









If you read my post properly, you would know what I meant: we in the West (in general, fyi) got it made (even those that have relatively little to spend), and still we find reasons to bitch and moan.
We don't appreciate what we have: no, instead, we need more, if possible for less - why not think about how good we have it for a second before complaining about petrol becoming a bit more expensive or whatever...

No, I'm not jealous - the US is a beautiful country, but I'd never swap my own country (or any other place in Europe, for that matter) for a place in the US.

One more thing: bitching about oil prices is by no means even remotely comparable to bitching about pictures of people being humiliated/tortured.
You came there to free the Iraqi's of Saddam and his evil regime, and the same things happen again, in the same goddamn prison for Christ's sake... And then you are surprised the Iraqi's aren't amused??? Mmm.....


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

im thankfull for what i have.. but i am Human, so i allways want more/better.. i cant help it.

i WANT FREE GAS!!!! I WANT BIGGER TANKS!!!

I WANT I WANT I WANT!!!

jk lol ..


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## ChosenOne22 (Nov 23, 2003)

why does it become such a huge scandal when america does this and not iraq or other countries?

because america proudly proclaims itself as a free country with humane rights and all that good stuff.

is abusing prisoners wrong? in my opinion...no. it is war..is it not?

so to end this, the U.S force feeds the world about freedoms and being modern and civilized and everyone should be like them...but in the end those prisoners are no different then saddams prisoners who they fought to end.

this kind of thing cant possibly happen without people higher in the chain not knowing.

big time hypocrits...


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

As for spoiled, the reason the US is so rich is because the US is the hardest working population in the world. Its proven. They value work and money above leisure. They work more hours then any other country. Dont believe me? Ask others from different countries. Yes their gas prices might be lower then the dutch or europeans but that is because of different factors. The US depends on cars....most other countries depend on public transportation. The US is simply too big and doesn't have a developed bus/train system. Thus, the need for gas is more important...look at NY...gas there is 2x what it is in california....most cars there are taxis.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

ChosenOne22 said:


> this kind of thing cant possibly happen without people higher in the chain not knowing.


 umm yes it can.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

And if i remember correctly, we also have a higher college educated population.


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## MoeMZA (Feb 19, 2004)

Peacock said:


> people are bitching about these pictures when the prisoners would do far worse to us.. like the time our 6 people got mutilated in the streets, and most of the people watching were enjoying it..


 The photos/torture by U.S. soilders occured several months before the Americans were killed in Falluja.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

MoeMZA said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > people are bitching about these pictures when the prisoners would do far worse to us.. like the time our 6 people got mutilated in the streets, and most of the people watching were enjoying it..
> ...


 and your point?

i was not stating that it was OK to do this AFTER they did that to us.


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## ProdigalMarine (Jan 31, 2003)

Hm, lets see how many people flame and ream me for this.....

First off, i'd like to tip my cover to every civilian news agency in the world. Thank you for f**king everything in the world up! My cover also goes off to the lazy-ass liberals who just like to sit around and do nothing but bitch and moan about every single f**king thing in the world, yup...F**K YOU!

Jonas is right, we here in the west do have it made. We have everything but we dont except that, we want more....so what do we do, we sit around on our fat ass's and bitch about everything. I dont care who i offend in this post, i'm tired off all this bullshit! Thats the problem with the world today, in fact, thats the problem with the US. Its all about the "I", its not about anything else, its about the money, the 15 minutes of fame and the bullshit politics. I'm tired of people sitting around on their asses watching their "news" and being "informed" and "forming their own opinion" because you know what, they aren't being informed, they arent forming their own opinions, they're being brainwashed by bullshit propaganda from both sides. Thats all it is, rich white fucks sitting behind corporate desks feeding the nimble-minded civilians utter-bullshit and profiting off it. The US is too soft in todays modern world, and you know what, i wouldn't be surprised if we did get another terrorist attack on our home turf. I wish things were like they were back in the old days, without corporate propaganda. A great man once said "Speak softly, but carry a big stick." President Theodore Roosevelt was a man who kept the US isolated from the world, he kept everything inside the US, dealed with everything from inside the US, if some world power needed something, they came to us...this is why the US was feared back in the day, because we were a giant sleeper of a superpower...no one fucked with us, and we fucked with no one, f*ck all that Manifest Destiny bullshit! If i had it may way, i'd rather us have the US under martial law than have liberal fucks like Geraldo running around ranting about bullshit they dont even know about. In fact, if my command gave me the order to eliminate all news media, i wouldn't hesitate with the order, i'd lock and load my m-16 and gleefully pick off any persons assoscated with the Press. I dont really give a sh*t if you think im nuts, the media has driven me to this point.

Further more, i really don't give a rats ass that we're abusing POW's. If the situation was reversed and they had US POW's, they'd do the same sh*t. f*ck the geneva convention, because we all know that during times of war and conflict, the rules get thrown out the window!

...so you all can flame me once i get back. As for me, i'm getting deployed for 6 months. To all you "liberals" out there, you can kiss my ass because i'm doing what i think and feel is right!


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

interesting.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

MoeMZA said:


> Peacock said:
> 
> 
> > people are bitching about these pictures when the prisoners would do far worse to us.. like the time our 6 people got mutilated in the streets, and most of the people watching were enjoying it..
> ...


 Yes, exactly what is your point? Peacock simply is stating that nobody outside of the US gave a rats ass those civilians were mutliated. MUTLIATED! Thats worse then taking pictures of naked men. The world is using anything they can find to attack the US.


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

sure these pics are bad.. but do you Realy, truly, deep down inside, care? do you Care that these people, who would gladly kill you and your family, get their pics taken nude?

i dont.. these people are uncivilized and dont like white people because of their religion/beliefs.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Btw spikey, good luck in iraq and come back safely.


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## Jebus (Feb 29, 2004)

Peacock said:


> im not saying its Kool to do these things im just saying its better then getting shot and left to die.
> 
> Why should you care what happens to them? they would kill you if given the chance.. does that not RING in your head? the Fact these people would enjoy the chance to KILL YOU.


 wouldn't you want to kill someone if they raped you and made you do crazy bondage sh*t really thats F*cked up.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Peacock said:


> sure these pics are bad.. but do you Realy, truly, deep down inside, care? do you Care that these people, who would gladly kill you and your family, get their pics taken nude?
> 
> i dont.. these people are uncivilized and dont like white people because of their religion/beliefs.


 Out of all those accusations, i only see the one case of rape, dog bite, and sodimizing as bad. The rest of those acts were intimidation to get information out of those people. I dont mind the naked prisioners. Its meant for two things. 1. When somebody is naked, they feel vulnerable and humilated...tehy are more willing to cooperate. I dont mind these kinds of acts if they will save soldiers and even iraqi civilians....c'mon! putting them in womens underwear? Is that a heinous crime???


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

Still trying to defend it, I see... Pointless.

Let's just all wait until some American GI's are forced to buttrape each other at gunpoint, are being ripped up by dogs while being naked, being dehumanized etc. etc.
I bet then all of a sudden the Geneva Convention is the holiest of holy: as long as it happens to Iraqi's, it's ok ("it's war"), but as soon as it happens to Americans, it's a war crime and everyone starts crying it's such a goddamn outcry???
All you guys that try to belittle and downtalk these war crimes and crimes aginst humanity are hypocrites, IMO: sickening


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Judazzz said:


> Still trying to defend it, I see... Pointless.
> 
> Let's just all wait until some American GI's are forced to buttrape each other at gunpoint, are being ripped up by dogs while being naked, being dehumanized etc. etc.
> I bet then all of a sudden the Geneva Convention is the holiest of holy: as long as it happens to Iraqi's, it's ok ("it's war"), but as soon as it happens to Americans, it's a war crime and everyone starts crying it's such a goddamn outcry???
> All you guys that try to belittle and downtalk these war crimes and crimes aginst humanity are hypocrites, IMO: sickening


 I only said the rape and torture was unacceptable....pictures of naked men is blown waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of porportion. Btw, read this link and see how much outrage if any is out there.....womens underwear vs this:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...erican_beheaded


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Oh judazz...btw, the butt rape claim u stated, well they were "simluated" as in pretend. So you should have said "our US soldiers 'pretend' to butt rape"


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

well i shure hope the soldiers and the ppl in charge and also those hwo know about it but did nothing are satisfied, because of their actions, american blood is being spilled because of it. i just read in the news tha Al-Qaida have executed a american as vengance for the prison tortures and are threatening to execute more


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

my opinion has changed again. They just beheaded one of our own. Now what is worse, a naked pyramid, or the public beheading of one of our innocent civilians


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

those THEY are Al-Queda


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## con man (Mar 7, 2004)

Al Qaeda Leader Beheads U.S. Civilian in Iraq
Tue May 11, 2004 02:32 PM ET

By Ghaida Ghantous

DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda's leader in Iraq beheaded an American civilian and vowed more killings in revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, an Islamist Web site said Tuesday.

A poor quality videotape on the site showed a man dressed in orange overalls sitting bound on a white plastic chair in a bare room, then on the floor with five masked men behind him.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael... I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah," said the bound man, adding he was from Philadelphia.

After one of the masked men read out a statement, they pushed Berg to the floor and shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera.

The Web site said Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a top ally of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, was the man who cut off Berg's head. The statement read out before the killing was signed off with Zarqawi's name and dated May 11.

Jordanian-born Zarqawi, 37, has raised his profile and status as al Qaeda's most active operational leader with a series of suicide bombs and attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq.

A State Department official said Tuesday the body of a U.S. citizen identified as Berg had been found in Baghdad. The official said Berg had no ties to the U.S. military or the Defense Department, but offered no further details.

"He was a private American citizen not associated with a military contract," said the State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

It was not immediately possible to verify the authenticity of the tape carried on the Muntada al-Ansar Islamist Web site.

The ritual killing resembled the murder of U.S. reporter Daniel Pearl, beheaded by Islamist militants in Pakistan.

Berg's orange overalls were reminiscent of those worn by al Qaeda detainees held by U.S. troops at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

Photographs shown around the world of naked Iraqi prisoners stacked in a pyramid or positioned to simulate sex acts at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad have provoked international anger and become a serious setback to U.S. efforts to stabilize Iraq.

President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair have both apologized and pledged to punish those responsible but both governments have come under pressure for senior ministers to be held responsible for the abuse.

^they have just done much worse than wat we have assholes so if u say we suck and r gay and abusive we dont chiop ppls heads off who rnt even in the damn army.....


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## Guest (May 11, 2004)

> DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda's leader in Iraq beheaded an American civilian and vowed more killings in revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, an Islamist Web site said Tuesday.


Tytpical Islamic news website. The terrorists didn't behead an American to avenge mistreated Iraqi prisoners, they did it because they're scumbag terrorists! They new that making a video that shows them hacking off the head of a living American would be so offensive, that all American would consider it an act of terrorism against them.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

diddye said:


> Judazzz said:
> 
> 
> > Still trying to defend it, I see... Pointless.
> ...


 So now an isolated, indeed sickening, decapitation, is all of a sudden as bad as systematic violations of human rights? The Red Cross and other aid agencies complained about systematic abuse, torture and humiliation a year ago, so we're not talking about isolated incidents that occured in those prisons And I belief the Red Cross over any American news station). A YEAR ago, so don't all of a sudden start with "well, they started"...
Btw: even if they started - the US feels so superior, morally and as far as civilisation goes: why doesn't it act that way then, and doesn't lower itself to the level of what is considered filth and scum???

You can read all the news and pick out the things that suit your point of view (like women's underwear): that doesn't mean those other excesses never happend? Or does it make them less terrible?
And simulated or not: if it would happen to American GI's, it would be sooo much worse, according to what I've read in this thread.

Oh, and something else: just today, news of English troops gunning down innocent civilians on the streets surfaced (including an 8-year old girl) - what do we actually hear of what really happens there? What do we know? What has yet to surface?

btw: my previous post wasn't directed at you in particular - it just happened to be posted imedeately after your post...


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## garybusey (Mar 19, 2003)

I was upset by the torture until this....

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05...main/index.html

They Beheaded someone. No matter what torture those Iraqies incured they still made it away with their lives. Screw them as long as they act like Savages treat them as such....


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

I would love to hear Judazzz's opinion if it were Americans being stacked on eachother naked, and the USA videotaping an Iraqi decapitation. Wouldn't all of you?

Judazzz we all know you are anti-America. Reading your political posts anymore is just like reading blah blah blah blah. You just love to get people fired up.

My god man, a guy got his head chopped off, and here you are debating Americans and Canadians for getting angry about it.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Like judazz said about the US earlier, we were "Defending the soldiers" for what they did. He's doing the same thing and is defending the iraqis. Hypocrit. No outrage, anger, or disappointment from him...expected tho, he IS only an american.


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## Judazzz (Jan 13, 2003)

521 1N5 said:


> I would love to hear Judazzz's opinion if it were Americans being stacked on eachother naked, and the USA videotaping an Iraqi decapitation. Wouldn't all of you?
> 
> Judazzz we all know you are anti-America. Reading your political posts anymore is just like reading blah blah blah blah. You just love to get people fired up.
> 
> My god man, a guy got his head chopped off, and here you are debating Americans and Canadians for getting angry about it.


 Chunks: what are you doing in a political thread? Got no more smutty pics to post









Iraqi's, Americans: it would make no difference to me - unlike what many of you may think, imo. no one deserves treatment like that.

If you get tired of reading my posts, just ignore them - freedom to choose, remember: no one forces you to read them, so quit your whining








This thread isn't about an American getting his head chopped off: read the topic title before posting, por favor...

And fyi: I don't hate the US (otherwise I'd be fighting against Americans near Tora Bora or Fallujah). I simply dislike the mentality of the likes of you, and am entitled to voice that...
Maybe I do like to fire up people: at least I now it's effective - it seems to work in your case.


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## 521 1N5 (Apr 25, 2003)

Judazzz said:


> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rbp75 (May 2, 2004)

where was all of the bitching and whinning when americans had there corpses drug through the streets and mutilated and hung from bridges?? from what I remember that got about 1 day of media coverage. Wheres all of the bitching about the american who was just decapatated out of revenge of the prisoners"abuse" I dont here anyone apoligizing for those. If theres anything I dont respect about bush or rumsfeld is they offered appoligies (atleast rumsfeld did) I would have said too bad next time dont f*ck with us and nothing will happen to you!! The purpose of the treatment of these prisoners is to break there spirit, it an agressive tactic used to get information out of them that they would otherwize not give. When hussain was in command these people would have had there bodyparts cut off, givin acid baths, have there mothers,daughters,or wives gang raped then murdered while the prisoner watches. any body woh consideres this no worse than what happened to these pieces of camel sh*t then f*ck you





















x1000000 if you dont like it tough sh*t maybe you should move to afgan or some other terrorist controled country and see how quick you oppinion changes.
btw spikey thankyou for your service I wish you the best of luck and a safe return








also i lost the quote but that post about the iraqes not wanting americans or britts there





















too you got your head too far up your ass to know that they are the extreme minority in that country, your just too blinded by the left-wing political media bullshit to know this WAKE UP!!!


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

rbp75 said:


> where was all of the bitching and whinning when americans had there corpses drug through the streets and mutilated and hung from bridges?? from what I remember that got about 1 day of media coverage. Wheres all of the bitching about the american who was just decapatated out of revenge of the prisoners"abuse" I dont here anyone apoligizing for those. If theres anything I dont respect about bush or rumsfeld is they offered appoligies (atleast rumsfeld did) I would have said too bad next time dont f*ck with us and nothing will happen to you!! The purpose of the treatment of these prisoners is to break there spirit, it an agressive tactic used to get information out of them that they would otherwize not give. When hussain was in command these people would have had there bodyparts cut off, givin acid baths, have there mothers,daughters,or wives gang raped then murdered while the prisoner watches. any body woh consideres this no worse than what happened to these pieces of camel sh*t then f*ck you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Fuckin A


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

this new video angers me..

i am growing even more pissed off at the fact we dont bomb the entire country and then take it over as a US controle country.


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## thoroughbred (Mar 14, 2003)

Denver said:


> thoroughbred said:
> 
> 
> > my 0.02 is simple its war are any of u reallyt that suprised and as far as abuse goes please make me get naked and make pyramids and take pics of me thats better than what other countried so like umm KILL YOU!!!!!!! lmao screw em all its war there not suppsoed to treat u nice and fuzzy
> ...


 my point is its not right but in a war when 10 min b4 this guy was trying to kill u are any of us really suprised its gonna happen regardless cause men who try to kill other men and catch them ,they may be alittle pissed off u were screaming ak-47 bullets past ur head its life ,its war deal with it


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## Peacock (Feb 23, 2004)

if some one would take me out if given the chance.. then i wouldnt have any problem taking them out, even AFTER they are un-armed.


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## randomhero (Mar 29, 2004)

How can anyone argue the fact that we shouldnt have done what weve done to the iraqis. You think they dont do sh*t to their prisoners that are a million times worse than what we do to ours? Iraqis are old school crazy, theyre used to the saddam hussein style torture and punishment. I can almost guarontee its worse. I dont condone what has been done, but it doesnt make me ashamed of my country. After all this fighting and frustration how can you expect them to not do what theyve done. It really angers me when people constantly debate the military and what they do, then sleep under the blanket of protection they provide. How can you sit there acting holier than thou. For any of you that act like none of this sh*t should have happened, put yourself in any one of our soldiers shoes, or the shoes of the families of those who have died trying to liberate iraq and rescue our country from terrorism. Im not a political man but i have faith in my country and its choices. If you dont, i suggest you move to another country because this is going to get alot worse before it gets better. This is war, not a sanctioned boxing match. Anything goes on either side. How can you have RULES to war? Its like trying to put order in anarchy, it doesnt work. I salute all our armed forces, no matter what anyone says, it takes one hell of an individual to go out there and fight for a country, especially when half of the country doesnt even appreciate you. They are a special breed and make me proud to be an american citizen.

For all of you anti-war and iraqi buffs, eat me.







I'd be over there fighting right now if the government would allow me(old wrestling injury limited my mobility). Im not looking to make enemies within the forums, but i want my opinion noted.


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## scrapedogg (Apr 28, 2003)

I think it's lame that this is what gets coverage. Three of my fraternity brothers just returned from Iraq with such a different story than any of the sh*t that gets posted on reuters. They were there to help people, and that's what they did, they built schools, fixed roads etc. It's just funny to me that there's so much coverage over the terrible things happening to these iraqi prisoners, when everyone has to know that things were 10 times worse in viet nam and the world wars, there just wasn't a liberal reporter with his camera in every nook and cranny.

This is the same reason why the national enquirer exists. Smut sells. Ya it sucks that sh*t happens to prisoners, and it shouldn't, but the fact remains, the U.S. tries to do much more good than harm to countries it invades. This is a small harm being done, and sh*t has hit the fan about it, but there is also a lot of good being done.

Judazz, I have a question for you, who are the top 3 steel producing countries in the world? No answer?? Germany, Japan, and Korea. What do all 3 have in common? We conquered them in wars, then rebuilt their countries economically, as wella s physically. I do think that there are times when the U.S. gets over zealous in the moral police role, but I think that the whole world has a bitter taste in it's mouth over WWII still, and I guess that I can't really blame our government for wanting to jump in early and take care of problems before they start, since in WW2 we didn't do anything till much later, and it cost the world hundreds of thousands of lives. My point is this, sometimes you've gotta crack a few eggs to make an omlette. Iraq will be one more country torn apart by the U.S. But if we accomplish our goal, in another 40 years, Iraq will be a super power with a stable economy, and will be good for the entire world. When our little sister is being harassed by another country, yes we are the big brother to go in and kick his ass for her, so we cause some bloody noses, but because of us, there are a few bullies taht learned their lessons, (japan, germany, korea) and a few less little sisters who were raped. (kuwaitt, south korea, ALL OF EUROPE)


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## con man (Mar 7, 2004)

only nasty sh*t and violence gets published/viewed the news ant interested in the good stuff

its a political moveto get bush out of office by kerry


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

its so funny, you scream bloody murder when innocent americans get killed and tortured by TERRORISTS and rebel factions, but you dont hesitate to suggest things like nuke iraq, and kill millions of innocent civilians that have done no wrong.


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## diddye (Feb 22, 2004)

Markosaur said:


> its so funny, you scream bloody murder when innocent americans get killed and tortured by TERRORISTS and rebel factions, but you dont hesitate to suggest things like nuke iraq, and kill millions of innocent civilians that have done no wrong.


 How many people even suggested to nuking iraq??? One person on a piranha board? Thats his opinion and he has the right to that but i highly doubt....no i KNOW that americans dont want to nuke iraq...its just probably said in the heat of this debate. Dont try to point the finger on who said what.


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## Alexraptor (Jan 30, 2003)

im not saying every american, i am directing this at anyone who even suggests or even thinks Iraq should be nuked


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## MR HARLEY (Aug 12, 2003)

diddye said:


> Markosaur said:
> 
> 
> > its so funny, you scream bloody murder when innocent americans get killed and tortured by TERRORISTS and rebel factions, but you dont hesitate to suggest things like nuke iraq, and kill millions of innocent civilians that have done no wrong.
> ...


It was me .............:rasp: 
so if you got fingers to point ......................get to pointing









I LOVE MY COUNTRY and there is nothing anyone can say or do to make me change that .


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