# now hear this



## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

hey every 1 that doubted me ii got a lot of info at the pet store on sw fish
I found out u gotta let ur tank cycle for at least a month. maybe put some shrimp from the store to eat and put it n ur tank to help build up bacteria. maybe evvn somme black mollies.ince there fresh and a brackish fish
I also figured out the name of the fish and u were right I'm getting a niger trigger a blue one and a black one maybe hopefully babies.
also found out they are a reef dwelling fish but can adapt to coral enviorments which is what I plan to have.they like to lodge there triggers between the rocks while they sleep.
I also think that I may get a couple black and white angel fish ( I think that's the name) it has a black tail and and a white head. there is another 1 too but I can't think of the name. Its like a pretty purple and yellow color and has lips like those yellow fish with the white dots on there tails. It looks a lot like it too.
I know to put the less dominant fish n first so the trigges will know there boundries.
Theres other stuff I learned too I just can't think.I'm so excited.
I think I'm ready what do you think? 
What do u think my chances r of breeding two trigers n a 75 gl. Tank?


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Well the info doesent sound all that bad, But i wouldent keep one niger trigger in a 75 let alone 2. Plus the chances you have 2 males they could stress on another out.


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## Mike122019 (Feb 14, 2005)

I think your not even close!!!!


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Lets be nice guys, Trillion just because you talked to a guy at an lfs dont think youre ready. We for the most part are giving you some advise. Take it slow, theres nothing but trouble if you jump in on a whim.
Good luck and please listen what people are trying to tell ya.


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

I haven't started to cycle my tank and probably won't for a while.
What size tank do u sugest raptor for the two niger triggers hope not too big I live upstairs from people 
the guy at the pet store says he's gonna come and set every thing up for me whhen I start my water, and he has a 150 high at his house so I thnk he knows a lil about sw fish
thanks for not being ajerk raptor, and for the advice


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

How much money are you planning on spending? Dude all i can say is do your research before you act on this. I am planning on setting up a SW tank in the summer and have been researching for about 2 months now. I plan on spending between 4000 and 5000 on my 90 gallon. Might i suggest a book before going ahead, i like "the conscientious marine aquarist" by rob fenner. This book should prepare you very well for what to expect for a SW tank. Think about it a 35 dollar book is a lot cheaper than a 500 dollar mistake. Anyways when i first got the idea that i wanted a SW tank i thought there couldn't be much difference between a FW and SW, BOY WAS I WRONG. I guess if you were going for a FO tank it may be a bit easier. My first tank will start as a FOWLER then hopefully if all is successful i will be getting into some simple corals. Try www.reefcentral.com (hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here) out you will find a tone of info on there. Good luck!

Andrew


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

wow thanks andy I will definetly look into that site, but just to let u know I'm thinkin of a 90 ggl. or a 110 gl. and I'm gonna put some dummy fish n there for I go big and ill probably spend just under 3000 grand on all my tanks at first not countin through out life though!
Thanks man good advice


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

Trillion not meaning to step on your toes or to start anything but i think this needs to be said

You need to slow down big time or else your tank is going to result in failure, you are asking questions that u will get answers back way faster in google and you are creating multiple posts to ask related questions, behavior like that can sometimes turn people willing to help into the same people that will tell you that you shouldnt own a tank, Bold statements like the title of this post is a great example

Research every fish you want to own research every piece of equipemtn you want to put on your tank ask for advice with those things come up with a potentiatl fish list (i say potential cause it always changes the second u see a great deal in a store) plan everything out well in advance ask others if they feel you have a sound plan then go back and correct any problems and then when you have a sound plan go ahead and execute

Saltwater fish keeping is not rocket science not even close to as hard as many make it seem in fact i find it easier than keeping fresh but it does require dedication and knowledge of what your fish requires and how your tank operates. Hell saltwater doesnt even have to be expensive i keep hearing everyone say they are planning 3 grand or 2 grand or whatever take your time and it doesnt need to be so, I am in a 135 gallon tank and with everything i think i may have jsut broken the 1000 dollar mark and i live in canada for god sake everything is 3x more expensive here

You could be rich as sh*t and throw thousands of dollars at your tank but if u don't know what u are doing its still going to fail

I hope u understand what I am saying and do not take it offensively u are not the first or the last person to be guilty of this, Hell even i was a little overzealous/anxious at one point

Here are some links to get you started into researching the things you will need to know

http://www.liveaquaria.com/
excellent site for helping you choose the fish you liek as well as basic information about them (keep in mind when looking at fish take recommended tank sizes witha grain of salt they are trying to make a sale and many times offer bad advice come back here and ask)

http://reefcentral.com/
Another forum with some helpful people but it is a very large community very common to make a post and then have it dissapear from site 30 mins later, start in the newb section it is more forgiving

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
wet web is considered by some to be the be all end all of marine sites every possible question u can think of has been asked on here 5x so dont jsut go posting away read read and read some more and when your eyes are bleeding and your think you know everything read it all again

Well hope those help to get you off to a good start I by no means am trying to deter you from starting a marine tank but am trying to ensure you get the right start


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

dude.. youve been in the saltwater hobby for what? a whole month?.. keep reading..

ive been in the hobby for a long time and still have no fuckin clue about some stuff


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

jiggy said:


> dude.. youve been in the saltwater hobby for what? a whole month?.. keep reading..
> 
> ive been in the hobby for a long time and still have no fuckin clue about some stuff


I hope thats not directed at me







i have been in this hobby for quite sometime now

Nobody will ever know everything there is to know about this hobby and i never claimed too even the actual pros such as calfo, shimeck, and borneman all admit to learning something new all the time, Its one of the great appeals to this hobby it is a constant learning process


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

it was directed at the original poster


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

jiggy said:


> it was directed at the original poster


lol okay jsut me being defensive


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

f*ck.. i wasted my 2000th post on this gay thread


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## Mike122019 (Feb 14, 2005)

saltwaters a pain in the ass. I still cant figure out y some fish die, everything checks out great!!!


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

Mike122019 said:


> saltwaters a pain in the ass. I still cant figure out y some fish die, everything checks out great!!!


this may be because of there method of capture many fish are cyanide caught while it makes it easy for the people catching the fish and in turn makes for cheaper fish but the end result can be a very short life span, perhaps try buying from a diffrent store that may use a diffrent supplier, and whenever possible buy fish that or captive bred I find that fish that are taken from the hawaii area tend to be hardier fish as I dont beleive cyanide is allowed there and all are net caught


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

00nothing,
What type of tank do you have set up in the 135 FO, FOWLER, or reef? pretty impresive that you got your tank done up with only a grand. What skimmer are you using? Do you have any lighting on the tank? What are your inhabitants? Where in canada are you buying your stuff? If you have live rock how many LBS do you have? Sorry for all the question :laugh: but i too live in canada but in the west and would love to know where you got ur stuff from.

Andrew


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

I've 2 saltwater tanks, 1 FOWLR and other reef and love them both. Once your tank is established, it's very easy to maintain. I used "Cycle" from WalMart to speed up my new tank cycle. The product contains beneficial bacteria.


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

What types of lights are you using on your reef rchan11? What have you stocked it with?

Andrew


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Andy_Handy said:


> What types of lights are you using on your reef rchan11? What have you stocked it with?
> 
> Andrew


I use 20k MH and PC for my reef. I've a dozen softies, and 3 SPS. I also have 2x Crocea, flame scalop, a maroon clown, pseudochromis, corris wrasse, 2x4 strip BW damsels, Coral banded shrimp, camel shrimp, feather dusters, 2xserpent starfish and a clean up crew.


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

> I use 20k MH and PC for my reef. I've a dozen softies, and 3 SPS. I also have 2x Crocea, flame scalop, a maroon clown, pseudochromis, corris wrasse, 2x4 strip BW damsels, Coral banded shrimp, camel shrimp, feather dusters, 2xserpent starfish and a clean up crew.


I'm jealous i cant wait until i get my tank









Any chance we could get some pics


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

I'm addicted to SW.


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

That's allot of nice coralline you have growing there. How large is that tank? what type of skimmer are you using? What other equipment are you using on it? Also how long have you had it set up for? I hope mine looks that good!

Andrew


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

Andy_Handy said:


> 00nothing,
> What type of tank do you have set up in the 135 FO, FOWLER, or reef? pretty impresive that you got your tank done up with only a grand. What skimmer are you using? Do you have any lighting on the tank? What are your inhabitants? Where in canada are you buying your stuff? If you have live rock how many LBS do you have? Sorry for all the question :laugh: but i too live in canada but in the west and would love to know where you got ur stuff from.
> 
> Andrew


I will try and answer the questiosn the best i can and will include prices where applicable

The tank is a predatory reef, mix of corals and and fish with a few preds focus being on the pred part

I purchased the tank with normal output lights stand and 185 lbs LR for $650 now i know i scored an awesome deal but it was patience that got me this deal people jump out of this hobby just as fast as they get into it and u can always score a sweet setup cheap

For a skimmer i am using a berling turbo now some people say the berlin is a piece of crap, i think its a misunderstood skimmer i get good skim with little to no trouble at all paid $125 i think i actually think it was less cause there was something else in the deal too but i will estimate high

The lighting is nothing less than a work of art in my opinion the light strip that was included covers the entire 6 ft length of the tank by running 4 3ft bulbs == < (looks like that when u look inside) using a WH7 ballasts $40 i am overdriving the NO bulbs in the back from 30 watts each to 95 watts each these are my daylights, I am contemplating overdriving the actinics in the front as well but honestly no need to the leahters lps xenia and shrooms i keep are all doing awesome

Inhabitants

Fish
Blue throat trigger $50
Snowflake moray $18
4 yellow tail damsels $ 3.49 each
dwarf lion fish $55 (wife bought this one would never have paid that much)
kole tang $25
mertenseii butterfly $18
pair of perc/ocel clowns $17 each

Corals
Kenya tree $35 fellow reefer
Devils Finger $20 fellow reefer
Large doughnut $25 store on sale
pulsing xenia $15 fellow reefer
Large zoo colony and many frags from trading off the original $60
pink tip anemone $5
plate coral $0 gift from fellow reefer
various mushrooms $20 bux lots of freebies from other reefers people always give these things away
cabbage leather $0 gift from fellow reefer

okay as you can see not exactly a small lists thing that I ahve included in the price are various powerheads one of them being a seio 100 which i ver paid for so lets say total I have $150 in powerheads I am not going to include my sump and the necessary parts as I am trying to show it doesnt take a million bux to have a nice tank and its not running right now anyways lol

sooo grand total is DRUMROLL PLEASE

$1341.96 so am over 1000 by a bit but i think it proves my point u do not need to spend a fortune to have a nice tank if u want to see if its nice check out my vids post, some will say its not done cause the sump isnt hooked up well i am picking up the remaining parts tomorrow cs-150 overflow box and mag 12 for $125 i was lucky enuff to already have a 40 breeder to use for a sump and some scrap glass but even still that will cost you $50 max

Get into clubs and check out local buy and sells people there are tons of deals to be had Saltwater is no longer JUST a rich mans game even the avg joe (in my case broker than avg joe) can have a great setup

ANDY check out aquariumpros.ca canadian marine forum with a good classified section


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

00nothing,
Dude you got a Very Good deal on that tank and LR the LR alone would be over 1000 after tax if you were to buy it in a shop. What type of LR do you have in your tank? i'm thinking of going Fiji. Can we get some Pic's







. I was thinking of going with the Coralife 220 which is going to run me about 250 after tax but after if that Berlin skimmer is running fine on you 135 it should be great for my 90. Have you ever dealt with J&L before? If so how were they?

Thanks for the reply
Andrew

Also that's one crazy light setup you have there I'm thinking of going with the 4 bulb 54w tek T5 retrofit (or ICECAP I'm not sure yet).


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## 00nothing (Mar 26, 2004)

Andy_Handy said:


> 00nothing,
> Dude you got a Very Good deal on that tank and LR the LR alone would be over 1000 after tax if you were to buy it in a shop. What type of LR do you have in your tank? i'm thinking of going Fiji. Can we get some Pic's
> 
> 
> ...


yeah i got an awesome deal on the rock and everything but suprisingly enuff i ahve come across 2-3 similar deals in the last 6 months

go with the coralife skimmer it is absolutly the best bang for the buck and nobody touches J&L for price
the LR is all Fiji no base at all it lost some color due to some time spent cooking
A 4 bulb T5 setup would be okay 6 would be better but if u go T5 go with top of the line like icecap or tek dont bother with the other stuff its junk, personally for a while i was a big proponent of T5 bit honestly lately i ahve been leaning towards tried tested and tru it makes life so much simpler so i have been reccomending VHO

heres a link to all my pics
http://photobucket.com/albums/0603/00nothi...20and%20corals/

and if u havnt seen them my videos
http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/index.php?showtopic=114824


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## illnino (Mar 6, 2004)

how about this. how about we help you get started. go to the lfs and buy 40-60 lbs of sand. it does not need to be live. the "live" sand in the bag is a bag of bull. while youre there buy salt, a hydrometer, two powerheads that are rated around 300 gallons an hour and if you dont have a heater, get one. get the tank setup. next order either off the net, or from the fish store about 60 or so pounds of rock. you will also need a test kit for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and ph to test how your tank is cycling out.


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## His Majesty (Apr 5, 2005)

k. i havent read all the posts in this thread. only your first one. so sorry if this has been said before
but a niger trigger will get 2' long when fully grwon and will need a 200g+ tank. if you want 2 niger triggers you will need a 500g+ tank.
there will be no chance of breeding as no one knows how to breed them. i dont even think there have been reports of spawning. no even at public quariums. and there is no way of telling a triggers sex apart from DNA testing.
if you want to keep a niger trigger. start of with a 100g if you can. it will be fine in there for atleast a year or 2. possibly more. but you will eventually need a bigger tank. niger triggers get very large and are active fish.
also, i think you need to do some more research on keeping sw tanks









good luck. and keep asking questions


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## rchan11 (May 6, 2004)

Andy_Handy said:


> That's allot of nice coralline you have growing there. How large is that tank? what type of skimmer are you using? What other equipment are you using on it? Also how long have you had it set up for? I hope mine looks that good!
> 
> Andrew


It's a 42hex and am using a Prizm skimmer along with a powerhead filter and rotating powerhead. The tank has been setup for 2yrs. Most of the colors didn't show up in the pic.


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

ok first and foremost to respond to the comment that told me to post or I'm sorry not to post so many related topics the only reason y I do so is because 99.9% of the time I'm logged on from my pocket pc phone and it just has evo speed capabilities not broad band so its just faster and easier for me to look for my name and read 
I don't plan on askin the question a second time I just hope that the right people will c them and respond accordingly.I do apologize if this causes any one grief, and I mre than appreciate everyones ideas and comments and haven't had the time to thourghly read all of them but plan to do so on my next day off
sorry that persn dosent feel my thread was worthy enough for there 2000th post. but congratulations any way.
please know that ill try not to post any thing else and just take this sites inconvenience capability to cadar to pocket pc browers.
but thanks any way.
and thanks for the advice
I think I may just have a few more ?s and thatll be all


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Trillion there is no need to feel bad for posting feel free to do so!!
This is a place to learn, If you have a question just ask, and listen.
We see people just asking questions to get the info they want to hear and ignore others that are trying to help because its easier or they like the others advise because its more to their liking, or want they want to hear with it being wrong or not.
Youre welcome here just be patient and dont jump in before you can even read a hydrometer.
Good luck trillion.


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## Round Head (Sep 26, 2005)

Your plan doesn't sound too bad.
You will need a filter; I recommend a W&D. But for a fish setup, it doesn't really matter much as long as you have enough filtration. Just go big on filtration and you'll be alright. A protein skimmer would be nice but not that crucial.
As for cycling, go get a couple of cheap damsels but make sure you get a handfull of to coral substrate with that purchase so that you get some bacteria. Doing it this way, your tank will be cycled in no time. And when you're ready for your triggers, those cheap damsels will be great snacks for them. But if you plan on getting into coral, then you will need alot more equipment. Good luck


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## jiggy (Jun 27, 2004)

00nothing said:


> 00nothing,
> What type of tank do you have set up in the 135 FO, FOWLER, or reef? pretty impresive that you got your tank done up with only a grand. What skimmer are you using? Do you have any lighting on the tank? What are your inhabitants? Where in canada are you buying your stuff? If you have live rock how many LBS do you have? Sorry for all the question :laugh: but i too live in canada but in the west and would love to know where you got ur stuff from.
> 
> Andrew


I will try and answer the questiosn the best i can and will include prices where applicable

The tank is a predatory reef, mix of corals and and fish with a few preds focus being on the pred part

I purchased the tank with normal output lights stand and 185 lbs LR for $650 now i know i scored an awesome deal but it was patience that got me this deal people jump out of this hobby just as fast as they get into it and u can always score a sweet setup cheap

For a skimmer i am using a berling turbo now some people say the berlin is a piece of crap, i think its a misunderstood skimmer i get good skim with little to no trouble at all paid $125 i think i actually think it was less cause there was something else in the deal too but i will estimate high

The lighting is nothing less than a work of art in my opinion the light strip that was included covers the entire 6 ft length of the tank by running 4 3ft bulbs == < (looks like that when u look inside) using a WH7 ballasts $40 i am overdriving the NO bulbs in the back from 30 watts each to 95 watts each these are my daylights, I am contemplating overdriving the actinics in the front as well but honestly no need to the leahters lps xenia and shrooms i keep are all doing awesome

Inhabitants

Fish
Blue throat trigger $50
Snowflake moray $18
4 yellow tail damsels $ 3.49 each
dwarf lion fish $55 (wife bought this one would never have paid that much)
kole tang $25
mertenseii butterfly $18
pair of perc/ocel clowns $17 each

Corals
Kenya tree $35 fellow reefer
Devils Finger $20 fellow reefer
Large doughnut $25 store on sale
pulsing xenia $15 fellow reefer
Large zoo colony and many frags from trading off the original $60
pink tip anemone $5
plate coral $0 gift from fellow reefer
various mushrooms $20 bux lots of freebies from other reefers people always give these things away
cabbage leather $0 gift from fellow reefer

okay as you can see not exactly a small lists thing that I ahve included in the price are various powerheads one of them being a seio 100 which i ver paid for so lets say total I have $150 in powerheads I am not going to include my sump and the necessary parts as I am trying to show it doesnt take a million bux to have a nice tank and its not running right now anyways lol

sooo grand total is DRUMROLL PLEASE

$1341.96 so am over 1000 by a bit but i think it proves my point u do not need to spend a fortune to have a nice tank if u want to see if its nice check out my vids post, some will say its not done cause the sump isnt hooked up well i am picking up the remaining parts tomorrow cs-150 overflow box and mag 12 for $125 i was lucky enuff to already have a 40 breeder to use for a sump and some scrap glass but even still that will cost you $50 max

Get into clubs and check out local buy and sells people there are tons of deals to be had Saltwater is no longer JUST a rich mans game even the avg joe (in my case broker than avg joe) can have a great setup

ANDY check out aquariumpros.ca canadian marine forum with a good classified section
[/quote]

u need to spend alot for an sps reef no matter what.. i dont think people should go into the reef hobby planning to not spend alot cuz youll end up spending more once u realize the cheap stuff u got really is, cheap..


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

Thanks raptor some guy told me to stop posting so many threads and in a way he might be right but I really just don't want to make any one mad so if I do let me know I just want to carefully document all the use ful info I find on here and learn from some veterans point of view.
Thanks a lot though raptor u make me feel so welcome
but beforewe start kissing just wanna tell u that ur cool as fu.... not gay don't worry :laugh:


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## music_66_bandit (Jan 31, 2006)

Have you checked out reefcentral.com yet trillion? what do you think of the info there?


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## Mike122019 (Feb 14, 2005)

Trillion said:


> but beforewe start kissing just wanna tell u that ur cool as fu.... not gay don't worry :laugh:


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

no I haven't got to check out that reef site yet I've been so busy but I will and I hope I can get some good pics of triggers there.
lol at a lot of u guys u r crazy
the big day is monday and tues day I'm starting to cycle my tank on one of the days r cleaning it at least gotta go more to come I got a lot of people to thank


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

ok first off what is the difference between the reef tank and te coral tank.
and 00nothing I took ur thread as constructive criticism and not personal and I steal believe from my expierence u r one of the most expierenced and have one of the best tanks on the site
I can wait to check out that site u speak of andy but haven't had time man 12 hr days will kill ya, gotta work over time for my tank but like I said monday and tuesday ill b doing a lot of catchin up and as soon as I leave the site ill post it n here how t was I might browse it tonight I hope its compatible with pocket pc browsers








ok a few things while I'm on here since monday I'm choosing between a 110 gl drilled tank and a 90 gl. drilled tank what do fish like better ( the age old ?) length or width?
and since I'm making my 75 gl. and my not decided 110 or 90 gl sw. what should I do with my 40 gl. tank and I ain makin it no med center I got a 5 gl. for that
thanks ahead as always 
your boy trillion


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## Raptor (Jan 3, 2003)

Go with the 110, and use the 40 gallon for a sump. You'll have a bigger tank and have a little more water in your system.
Get a tank with overflows built right in it. (Quieter, and much nucer looking than external overflows) 
Dont worry trillion i am not gay either, But mike is giving you love smiles so i'd watch out for him. LOL Just messin with ya mike.


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

Hey RAPTOR what the hell is a sump tank u told me to use my 40 gl. as is that just to keep some bac up cycling salt water n.

this quite filtration systwm u speak of I woont be able to do that to my 75 cause its not drilled like my 110 is s I gotta get the over the back fiter. Hope it aint that loud








LOL mike is gay...... Raptor your a riot :laugh: 
I had some other ? like can u get ick n salt water?
Can I start out with those lil things that crawl o the bottom of the tank like a shell crab at first or do u gotta wait for that too?
One more thing.Can u get snails to just appear out of no where n salt water like u can n fresh water?
thanks a trillion in advance


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

LOL u think mike is gay! Raptor ur silly.
Few things though what the heck is a sump tank, somthin u keep bac up sw water in? if so can I keep fish n it too cause I was planninn on breeding maron clowns n it!
When I start my tank can I start out with shell crabs?
and will snails jut appear n salt water like they do in fresh water? thatl be cool if they do. will they clean up for you?


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

sorry for the double post I got bumped off froma buisness call

Once again I ask what is the difference between a coral tank and a reef tank besides one being more harder to care for?
I said this and ill say it again I was plannin on settin up shop tomorrow in my 75 gl. but I got to thinkin I don't have nothin to filter it with.
any way ANDY you are really HANDY but well see how handy u r. I'm bout to check out reefcentral.com right now and see what I think.


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## Trillion (May 10, 2004)

Andy_Handy said:


> Have you checked out reefcentral.com yet trillion? what do you think of the info there?


if I didn't know about this site that site would be my fav.
thanks for referring me man.
I plan on joining tonight to c if there is anything elae useful I can find out ur all right wit me player
I owe ya one!


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