# Questions about my cycle PLease help



## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

Alright so i have a 55 gallon tank with 50lbs of live rock. to start the cycle i put in 4 raw shrimp last tuesday and put the LR in thursday. Also I have added Biozyme and live nitrifying bacteria in order to speed up the process. BUT... I have yet to have any ammonia nitrates or nitrites on any readings? has my cycle not started yet? I am using sand from a previous tank so that could have some benificial bacteria in it but is there any way my tank is done cycling? all input is appreciated. thanks


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## jasert39 (May 1, 2003)

there is no way you tank has cycle that fast, even if the live rock was super great and biozyme works wonders i dont think it could have taken care of the shrimp in a 55 gallon tank. are your test kits new?


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

yea i just bought the test kit last week. I am starting to see some brown algae on the LR with i believe to be diatoms which should mean that my cycle is just starting or about to start


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

what do teh shrimp look like?

they should turn to jelly then more or less disappear as they disintigrate

however it could have been possible that critters int eh live rock made quick work of cleaning them up


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

the shrimp are just regular raw cocktail shrimp. they are still in the tank on the bottom and have started to look more jelly like with almost clear bubbles on them. hopefully i get some ammonia readings here within a few days


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> the shrimp are just regular raw cocktail shrimp. they are still in the tank on the bottom and have started to look more jelly like with almost clear bubbles on them. hopefully i get some ammonia readings here within a few days


if the shrimp are still fairly intact then your amonis should be on the raise and peak out around the time the shrimp are fully jellied and dissappearing then the cycle should start to flip to the nitrites and nitrates

just be patient the whole process should take atleast two - four weeks despie using so called cycle accellerators.. they do boost the bacteria in the tank but it wont necessarily make it cycle faster.. there are lots of ways to fuel bacteria blooms but in the end the best thing to do is just be patient.

are you runing a skimmer or any filtration?

really all you should ahve running at this point is a heater and powerhead for circulation.. skimmer would just be working against you as would carbon or any other filtration except maybe a plain old filter pad to trap particles.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

No im not running a skimmer during the cycle. right now I have an emporor 350 HOB just so that there can be some backteria build up on the cartriges. I also have 2 rio 600 powerheads as well. I think im on the right track. thanks so much


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> No im not running a skimmer during the cycle. right now I have an emporor 350 HOB just so that there can be some backteria build up on the cartriges. I also have 2 rio 600 powerheads as well. I think im on the right track. thanks so much


not really any need for the cartridges in the filter the live rock and sand bed does all of that filtration and the pads become a trap for particulates that should be either broken down by the clean up crew or removed by the skimmer.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

nismo driver said:


> No im not running a skimmer during the cycle. right now I have an emporor 350 HOB just so that there can be some backteria build up on the cartriges. I also have 2 rio 600 powerheads as well. I think im on the right track. thanks so much


not really any need for the cartridges in the filter the live rock and sand bed does all of that filtration and the pads become a trap for particulates that should be either broken down by the clean up crew or removed by the skimmer.
[/quote]
ok thanks ill take them out then. when do you recommend that i turn my skimmer on


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> No im not running a skimmer during the cycle. right now I have an emporor 350 HOB just so that there can be some backteria build up on the cartriges. I also have 2 rio 600 powerheads as well. I think im on the right track. thanks so much


not really any need for the cartridges in the filter the live rock and sand bed does all of that filtration and the pads become a trap for particulates that should be either broken down by the clean up crew or removed by the skimmer.
[/quote]
ok thanks ill take them out then. when do you recommend that i turn my skimmer on
[/quote]

once you start getting nitrate readings should be an ok time, better to let the amonia and nitrites build up, once it start converting to nitrates the skimmer shouldnt be working against the process, once the nitrites are dropped do a decent sized whater change and things should be ready to start adding a cleaner crew, maybe not a shrimp right away but atleast snails and maybe hermits. test your calcium alkalinity and magnesium before adding shrimp as they are more sensative to those levels for molting then hermits not to mention shrimp typically cost alot more then hermits.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

alright i did another reading this morning and still no ammonia? do you have any idea whats taking my cycle so long to start.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Odd that you do not have a NH4 reading yet. I don't care how good cured rock is, there is always a die off and NH4 spike after adding. Personally, I would just let the tank sit and cycle. I did not even measure the water parameters on my tank until after a month or so.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

if you dont have patients then just put yourstuff up on craigs list now, nothing good happen fast in a reef tank.

one thing i can think of is maybe your water temp is low? whats the tank temp and do you have a heater?


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

ha thats not the case at all. the temp has been kept at 79.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

If i put a used skimmer on it would it hurt or help my process


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> If i put a used skimmer on it would it hurt or help my process


i would say it would work against what your trying to achieve and proling the process.. you would most likely pull some pretty nasty skimmate though..


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## jasert39 (May 1, 2003)

it is strange that you don't get any readings, have you test for nitrites or nitrates? Ive always followed the better safe than sorry method of fishkeeping, i'd wait a month after getting a tank going before adding any at all. and after that add thing slowly, let you tank get used to the bioload then go from there. Either you have a "super tank" or thing is weird. Either way no reason to rush into getting fish or corals.


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## Coldfire (Aug 20, 2003)

Agreed ^^

Give it a month, then retest. In the month of waiting, enjoy watching the tons of stuff that will come out of the LR. Copapods, amlipods, snails, sponges, starfish, perhaps even a coral. That month of waiting on the tank to cycle was one of the most enjoyable months of my tank. No algae, and every time I looked at it, there was something new. Hell, that still goes for today.

ND touched on it, but my favorite quote about a reef tank:
"Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank, only bad things"

Take your time and enjoy the process. Unlike FW tanks, SW tank thrive with life at every step of its life.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

alright so out of curiosity today i tested for nitrates and nitrites. i have no nitrites and 20ppm nitrates. does this mean that i have already had my ammonia and nitrite spikes?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> alright so out of curiosity today i tested for nitrates and nitrites. i have no nitrites and 20ppm nitrates. does this mean that i have already had my ammonia and nitrite spikes?


could be

where did you get the live rock from ? what type of rock is it?

do 20 percent water change and test it all the parameters again a couple hours later.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

its cured ultra premium LR from saltwaterfish.com il do a water change today and see how it goes


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm sticking my head out here more than I should but that biozyme isn't bacteria but the enzymes they produce that do all of the work in the nitrating cycle. Maybe if you added enough of it to the tank you would never accumulate ammonia or nitrite during the cycle? Would it cycle at all without the levels spiking until the enzymes are denatured somehow? I should have followed the thread more carefully but I'm under the impression you never had any spikes but have nitrates present.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

shanker said:


> I'm sticking my head out here more than I should but that biozyme isn't bacteria but the enzymes they produce that do all of the work in the nitrating cycle. Maybe if you added enough of it to the tank you would never accumulate ammonia or nitrite during the cycle? Would it cycle at all without the levels spiking until the enzymes are denatured somehow? I should have followed the thread more carefully but I'm under the impression you never had any spikes but have nitrates present.


ah so you think they enzmyes broken down the waste/shrimp before it ould convert to amonia?

either way

no need to rush to stock the tank, do the water change and test tehn wait a few more days test and water change if things are still stable then should be ok to add a efw selections of live stock. just dont try to stock the tank all at once..


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

alright so i went to turn on my skimmer and all was doing fine until it started to overflow. it is a HOB any idea how to adjust it so it wont overflow?
also how high is my water level supposed to be according to the skimmer


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> alright so i went to turn on my skimmer and all was doing fine until it started to overflow. it is a HOB any idea how to adjust it so it wont overflow?
> also how high is my water level supposed to be according to the skimmer


what kind of skimmer is it?

check to make sure any air lines are not clogged, if its a venturi skimmer and its not pulling air the pump will work more effectively and pump too much water, also make sure that what ever regularo valve for adjusting the water/foam level is wide open to start with.


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

alright i figured it out. now by adjusting the water outflow i can determine how high the foam goes. how high do i want it to go?
o


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> alright i figured it out. now by adjusting the water outflow i can determine how high the foam goes. how high do i want it to go?
> o


what kind of skimmer is it?

depends on the shape of the uplift tube and how dry or wet you want it to skim. how big the collection cup is, if you ahve teh collection cup drilled for a drain line..


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

it is an odyssea ps75. i dont have it drilled for a drain line


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

i would adjust the water level to about 1/4 inch below the black ring that tapers up to the collection cup so there should be about a 1/4 inch or so of bubble s just at the begining of the black ring.. that should give you a decent skimmate with out filling the cup too fast..

that actually looks like one of the better cheap skimmers ive seen. have you taken apart the power head? what does the imepller look like? could be some modding potential there to increase production.

try to snap a picture of it running so we can seee what kind of bubblage that bad boys producing..


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

well ive had it running for about 2 days and as far as skimmate all i have is some yellow looking water. is this normal?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> well ive had it running for about 2 days and as far as skimmate all i have is some yellow looking water. is this normal?


yeah could be, every tank is differnt, plus sometimes it can take awhile for a skimmer to build up a slime coat before it really produces some nasty stuff. also pretty much any time you stick your hand itn eh tank or some other foriegn object or add water or dose additive or food it will most likely kill the foam head, even the slightest bit of oils will temporarly reduce skimmer production, on the other hand some fresh foods or additives might make it go crazy and make tons of skimmate..

if it seem like its barely putting and liquid in the cup then raise the water level slightly as long as it doesnt look like it will cause teh cup to overflow before you will ahve a chance to empty it.. ultimately the best thing to do is to drill the cup and put a drain on it and run a hose to a colelction bottle like a gatorade or 1 liter soda bottle..


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

yea i have heard that most skimmers have a break in period and also dont pick up much if your hands go in. i raised my water level a little and i think i should be good with where it is at. as far as when the cup fills up whats the easiest way to empty it.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> yea i have heard that most skimmers have a break in period and also dont pick up much if your hands go in. i raised my water level a little and i think i should be good with where it is at. as far as when the cup fills up whats the easiest way to empty it.


does the cup just lift off the skimmer body?

if ti doesnt then i would definatel suggest putting in the drain line and remote resivoir


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

nismo driver said:


> yea i have heard that most skimmers have a break in period and also dont pick up much if your hands go in. i raised my water level a little and i think i should be good with where it is at. as far as when the cup fills up whats the easiest way to empty it.


does the cup just lift off the skimmer body?

if ti doesnt then i would definatel suggest putting in the drain line and remote resivoir
[/quote]
yea the cup does lift off. if i was to put in a remote resivoir would i have to drill the cup.


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> yea i have heard that most skimmers have a break in period and also dont pick up much if your hands go in. i raised my water level a little and i think i should be good with where it is at. as far as when the cup fills up whats the easiest way to empty it.


does the cup just lift off the skimmer body?

if ti doesnt then i would definatel suggest putting in the drain line and remote resivoir
[/quote]
yea the cup does lift off. if i was to put in a remote resivoir would i have to drill the cup.
[/quote]

here is oneof the skimmer i have, circled is the barbed end for the drainline, this ia a threaded/barded fitting. since you skimer is smaller and wont produce as much skimmate as rapidly you could use a smaller drain line but you dont wat to go too small or it will get clogged.

View attachment 160580


here it is in action

View attachment 160581


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

would it be beneficial for me to add another air line to the skimmer? I still havent seen anything of any color only clear foam


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> would it be beneficial for me to add another air line to the skimmer? I still havent seen anything of any color only clear foam


the foam will most likely be white but as long as the liquid in teh cup is atleast a light tea color its working..

a couple of things to check out for skimmer effectiveness, how dense is teh bubbking in teh kimmer, what size are the bubbles.how much skimmate are you geting ..

but also keep in mind that there likely isnt much in teh tank thats creating stuff to be skimmed out.. skimmers are mostly pulling out fish waste, with very few or no fish then its not going to be doing a whole lot..

adding and airline proably wouldnt do much but take a look at the impeller on the pump, if its just a plain old flat balded impeller then that would be a place to consider making a change, if it seems like you not getting a ton of bubble or the bubbles are relatively large then try getting a spare impeller and cut notches into it evenly on all the baldes then try that, this will chop the bubbles up more, another common mod to improve skimmer function is to cut do the blades and us a piece of mesh scrubber pad cut to fit the same size as the impler was, i would try just nothing it first..


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

alright so my skimmer has been doing well ive been getting tea colored skimmate or some thick foam. but.. there is still a noticable filmy looking layer on top of my water. how would i get rid of this?


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

igotaweinerdog said:


> alright so my skimmer has been doing well ive been getting tea colored skimmate or some thick foam. but.. there is still a noticable filmy looking layer on top of my water. how would i get rid of this?


you need a surface skimmer start getting that stuff of the surface and the skimmer will pull it out..

you might be able to DIY one, useinf a speciine container (clear open top box) like the type the LFS uses when they catch your fish before they bag it, cut notchs in it and put the power head for the skimmer in that.

if your not clear on what im saying then this weekend when i have time i will try to explain better..


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

nismo driver said:


> alright so my skimmer has been doing well ive been getting tea colored skimmate or some thick foam. but.. there is still a noticable filmy looking layer on top of my water. how would i get rid of this?


you need a surface skimmer start getting that stuff of the surface and the skimmer will pull it out..

you might be able to DIY one, useinf a speciine container (clear open top box) like the type the LFS uses when they catch your fish before they bag it, cut notchs in it and put the power head for the skimmer in that.

if your not clear on what im saying then this weekend when i have time i will try to explain better..
[/quote]
yea i understand thanks Ill see if i can make one... if not ill go to the store, thanks again nismo you are always so helpful


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

would you reccomend something like this?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=12703


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## igotaweinerdog (Jul 16, 2007)

nevermind i dont have a canister filter


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## nismo driver (Jan 27, 2004)

somethign like this

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...tainer&Np=1

figure out the water level maybe 1/2 - 3/4 inch below that mark the container, then draw a level line around it. mark every 1/2 inch and with a 1/4 drill bit brill at each mark.. this should give you nice even "teeth" then just put the skimmer power headin there..

the only problem with this will be if your water level drops too low from evaporation to overflow into the box.

they do make them specificalyl for some HOB skimmers

http://www.aquarium-supply.biz/AquaC_Surfa..._p/rac03321.htm


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