# How To Keep Ammonia Down In An Overstocked Tank



## Domelotta

I've had the tank up for almost a year now. I have added pygos slowly over time. The most there were was 9 pygos in the 120 gallon tank. It has been cut down to 7 because of cannibalism. The ammonia level has slowly risen though over time as they have grown in size. The most recent levels are:
0.5-2.0 ppm ammonia depending on how much I've fed them the previous days
0 ppm nitrite
<20 ppm nitrate
p.h. <6.0 (i think because of the driftwood)

Filtration is:
Fluval Fx5
Rena Xp4
Penguin 200 HOB Biowheel
Aquaclear 110 HOB

and there are two aquaclear powerhead 70s (one with a microfiltration attachment)

I do one waterchange of 40% a week on Wednesdays. I feed them about every 3 days (raw fish, shrimp, and pellets--> just recently started soaking in vitachem again to see if I could enhance color)
The tank is heavily planted and almost all the substrate is covered in dwarf sag.

I've posted multiple topics in the past about this issue, but it just really bothers me it isn't fixing itself. I do thorough grav vacs and tested the tap water. (0 amm 7 p.h.). I use prime with water changes. I added the AQ110 HOB filter to see if that would help, but it didn't do anything (two levels packed with biomax one with filter foam)

Any help/advice is always appreciated. Thanks


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

I'd look into a wet/dry filter -- that would give you the best bang for your buck as far as bio filtration goes.


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## pirana666

7 PIRANHA S AT 120 GALON MAKE S 17 GAL EACH...NOT REALY A OVERSTOCK...OR IT HAS TO BE PIRAYA OR CARIBE???

REDBELLY S SHOULD BE ALRIGHT...I GEUS...AND 40% WEEKLEY WATERCHANGE ? ISNT THAT A LITLE TO MUCH?

JUST WHAT I THINK...


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## Domelotta

Are wet/dry hard to maintain? Should I sell the cannisters and use just wet/dry or keep both? Also there are 3 caribe, 3 red bellies, and one very large Tern.


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## CLUSTER ONE

-up filtration
-up waterchanges
-decrease temp
-decrease feedings


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## MPG

I would decrease feedings and do 2 smaller wcs per week instead of the giant one wc.


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## Guest

Easiest and simplest way is to reduce the stock.

Other then that, bump up filtration, feed less.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS

Domelotta said:


> Are wet/dry hard to maintain? Should I sell the cannisters and use just wet/dry or keep both? Also there are 3 caribe, 3 red bellies, and one very large Tern.


Incredibly easy to maintain, once it's set up, you can just replace or clean your pre filter pad every few weeks, no need to clean the bio media. You could run a canister set up strictly for mech if you want, but you wouldn't really need to run anything else.


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## the_w8

I'd also look into the wet dry. Even though its decently stocked tank you have more then enough filtration going. You may not have enough Bio-filtration running in ur filters to keep up with the bio-load and a wet-dry should take care of that problem. Do you have any dead plants or debris under your gravel that you possibly may not be accounting for?


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## CLUSTER ONE

the_w8 said:


> I'd also look into the wet dry. Even though its decently stocked tank you have more then enough filtration going. You may not have enough Bio-filtration running in ur filters to keep up with the bio-load and a wet-dry should take care of that problem. Do you have any dead plants or debris under your gravel that you possibly may not be accounting for?


That is a good point. With the filters you have the water should be clear.

So...

1. What are the filters stocked with?
2. How often are you cleaning them?


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## e46markus

CLUSTER ONE said:


> I'd also look into the wet dry. Even though its decently stocked tank you have more then enough filtration going. You may not have enough Bio-filtration running in ur filters to keep up with the bio-load and a wet-dry should take care of that problem. Do you have any dead plants or debris under your gravel that you possibly may not be accounting for?


That is a good point. With the filters you have the water should be clear.

So...

1. What are the filters stocked with?
*2. How often are you cleaning them?*
[/quote]

Maybe there is excessive amount of food and waste in your filters. Only other suggestion i could come up with is cutting down your shoal.


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## TheCableGuy

Traveller said:


> Easiest and simplest way is to reduce the stock.
> 
> Other then that, *bump up filtration*, feed less.


I don't think filtration is an issue, he's got a Fluval Fx5, Rena Xp4, Penguin 200 HOB Biowheel, and a Aquaclear 110 HOB. He has MORE then enough turnover. I think maitenence of the filters might be the issue.


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## TheSpaz13

X2, he has almost 10x turnover from just his canisters with another 2 HOBs. I'm going with there's something rotting somewhere in the tank, either in the filters or under the substrate. It might be roots from a dead plant, food hidden somewhere, or something stuck in one of the filters. I'd say check the filters for something that got sucked up and sat you do have a lot of fish but you also have a ton of filtration.

I think with a tank of that size joedizzle has the best idea...wet dry would probably be best. If your adventurous you could try the FBF filter that Sylar was talking about.


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## Domelotta

I think it may be dying roots...I have let the dwarf sag get a little out of control growing-wise and some of it is completely covered under gravel. I'm assuming the white roots are dying. I clean my cannisters every other month and only do one at a time. I packed them completely full with biomax, biostars, and a filter pad. I'll try a more thorough grav vac deep in the substrate to see if I can suck up them roots. I didn't think they would cause this much of a problem though. We'll see. Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep you posted.


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## Domelotta

Ok, so I've been cutting down my plants completely. I've taken out about 60% of them already, but my ammonia keeps staying at 2-4 ppm. I only feed about 14 medium sized shrimps a week to 7 (well now 6) pygos. I've lost another RB because he got ammonia burn on his eyes and started swimming in the large Tern's area (probably from his vision loss), so....he was killed. I've been doing 2x 30% WC. Still have the same filtration (XP4, FX5, AC110, Peng200). Over 14x turnover I believe. I really want to fix this ammonia dilemma. I use prime to keep ammonia and nitrite non-toxic as well as condition the water. Is that a possible cause? I've taken care of all the dead plant roots that I thought was the cause. There's almost no dying plants in the tank now. I siphon the leftover shrimp particles after every feeding as well. It's very frustrating....right now I would just like any information to help me decrease this ammonia problem that just doesn't seem to go away. Thanks


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## Mr. Hannibal

If you removed all the dead plants and food leftovers partial water changes should get the job done... keep in mind it is possible you have plant matter and/or food leftovers stuck in your filters... check it (just in case) and keep doing water changes, it will work, be patient...


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## Domelotta

Update:
Over the past week I've cleaned the filters. First the XP, 4 days later the penguin biowheel, 3 days later the AC110, and yesterday the AC70 powerhead (I completely took off the filter attachment because it was full of sh**). The problem is...the ammonia is still where it was. As of this morning, the results were 1.5-2.0 ppm (somewhere in between). I also took out the largest piece of driftwood, because I thought it was perhaps rotting so now my ph is rising causing more severe ammonia burn on my pygos. I have lost two pygos since the last update because of aggression and the re-establishing of territories after the driftwood was taken out and the pygos that died had the most ammonia burn and were swimming more awkwardly. I believe they have settled the territory battle, but because some of them have more ammonia burn than others, those are being picked on more. Lastly, I have been cutting down my plants severely because of the possible rotting roots. I have about 20% of what I started with and the same amount of ammonia as before.

Any other suggestions? I'm running out of ideas. If all else fails, I was going to attempt a huge water change, but I would think that might cause my BB to die off.


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## MFNRyan

I had an issue with ammonia in my 55g, could not figure out what the deal was. Finally after two months I found it. I had sh*t in my filter tubes both sides pick up an return. I ran three cotton balls and pushed with a hanger through the tubes. Ammonia went down by the next morning. I would say once every 6 months I clean those tubes now. Even a HOB tube needs cleaned. Also changing so much water at once isn't always the best idea because you introduce to much water that does not have the bio load needed. Which could cause a very small cycle from your tank?? Just an idea. I'm not real good with tank param's actually I just had this happen to me and thought I would let ya know what it was with mine


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## Domelotta

RedBelly11 said:


> I had an issue with ammonia in my 55g, could not figure out what the deal was. Finally after two months I found it. I had sh*t in my filter tubes both sides pick up an return. I ran three cotton balls and pushed with a hanger through the tubes. Ammonia went down by the next morning. I would say once every 6 months I clean those tubes now. Even a HOB tube needs cleaned. Also changing so much water at once isn't always the best idea because you introduce to much water that does not have the bio load needed. Which could cause a very small cycle from your tank?? Just an idea. I'm not real good with tank param's actually I just had this happen to me and thought I would let ya know what it was with mine


Like the canister tubes? Thanks man, I never though of the tubes. I've cleaned the HOB tubes because they're easy to clean, but I have never cleaned the FX5 and XP4 tubes.


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## MFNRyan

Yeah man they get a lot of build up. My fx4 had it an my cascade 1500 is the one that caused my problem. No matter how clean the filters an all that it's still going through however long your tubes are of sh*t filter. Basically throwing ammonia an garbage in your tank. lol


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## DiPpY eGgS

Sorry to hear about your ammonia problem.

I just wanted to chime in, and say that any time you uproot plants, you cause an ammonia spike.
When I uproot my plants, I always am doing a water change at the same time, and I keep the vac at the same spot I am uprooting, trying to vac up all the debris I am kicking up.

Naturally, all filters are off when I am doing this. And I never have trouble at all when doing very large water changes. I do weekly 50% water changes, up to 65%, and I have even done 75% water changes with absolutely no issues whatsoever.
My bacteria beds that keep the tanks water free of harmful things are inside the filters, so I never had a second thought about doing large water changes.

If I'm wrong, no problem, I'm just telling you what has worked for me for a super long time.

Hope that helps out


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## Smoke

If it were me I'd get some bio-spira (tetra safe start) and give the tank a boost... (IMO). Don't do large water changes... that may end up hurting your BB as well.

Oh, and try a few test kits just to be sure the one you're using isn't biased. GL.


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## Domelotta

I just cleaned the tubes to the canister and the ammonia actually went up afterwards. I'm leaning towards the plant issue. Maybe my attempt at fixing my ammonia by uprooting and taking out plants made issues worse. I hope tetrastart will help. I've used it initially in my tank to start it up and was satisfied. Also do you think that a steady current over top of the substrate causing it to shift could have something to do with it? My test kit is accurate. I have brought my water samples to multiple pet stores and they gave me the same results. Tank water ammonia 4, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, ph <6. Tap water ammonia 0, ph 6.9-7.0

I have so many theories as to why the ammonia is high (4.0+ ppm this morning), so I will share one. Mind you, it is a little extreme. lol
One of my cariba has some sort of skin disorder or something that only affects him. He's had it since I purchased him.
Cariba:















This is my tank. If anything stands out that might be the source of ammonia, please just tell me
Before plant switching:







After:


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## MFNRyan

After cleaning the tubes it's normal for the ammonia to spike at first. If you wait a few hours or in the morning then would be a more accurate time to check the water. the spike comes from the blast of the build up being turned loose. I Rinse mine in tank water that I have pulled out during a water change. That will help keep it from boosting to much, it should only be momentary though then begin to settle

P.S super nice tank man!! I wish I could plant a tank.. What is the grass looking stuff and how do you get so much of it? I found some little grass at my lfs and they wanted 6 bucks for a patch the size of a silver dollar!! It was ridic!! I want to plant my tank though.. I suck so bad I killed two amazon swords even!!!


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## Domelotta

RedBelly11 said:


> After cleaning the tubes it's normal for the ammonia to spike at first. If you wait a few hours or in the morning then would be a more accurate time to check the water. the spike comes from the blast of the build up being turned loose. I Rinse mine in tank water that I have pulled out during a water change. That will help keep it from boosting to much, it should only be momentary though then begin to settle
> 
> P.S super nice tank man!! I wish I could plant a tank.. What is the grass looking stuff and how do you get so much of it? I found some little grass at my lfs and they wanted 6 bucks for a patch the size of a silver dollar!! It was ridic!! I want to plant my tank though.. I suck so bad I killed two amazon swords even!!!


Thanks! I wish it would still have all the grass, but I cut it down because I thought it was the culprit. It's dwarf sag and believe it or not, I started with about a silver dollar sized clump of it. I also check the water about 12 p.m. noon when my tank lights are set to come on. I just got back late from class, so I won't be able to get the TetraStart until tomorrow. Does Seachem Prime possibly affect ammonia? I have been dosing it for months now with new water changes. I began it after I had a mini-spike initially, but continued it because when I stopped the ammonia would just shoot up like a rocket.


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## MFNRyan

Hey something else I just thought of. Do you use any chemical filtration at all? charcoal, ammonia chips anything like that? If so take those out. They cause ammonia kind of the same way. Once no good they begin to leech toxins into your water and it starts small then slowly builds up. Chemical filtration doesn't work anyway. I took it out of all my tanks long ago. Way better off this way.


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## Domelotta

RedBelly11 said:


> Hey something else I just thought of. Do you use any chemical filtration at all? charcoal, ammonia chips anything like that? If so take those out. They cause ammonia kind of the same way. Once no good they begin to leech toxins into your water and it starts small then slowly builds up. Chemical filtration doesn't work anyway. I took it out of all my tanks long ago. Way better off this way.


Unfortunately I don't. I don't even use carbon on the filters with media trays made with them inside the filter cartridges. I just cut em out and use the pad. I was thinking of actually using some ammonia rocks to stop the current problem, but I heard it just prolongs the problem.


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## MFNRyan

I wouldn't, That;s what I was getting at chemical filtration usually ends up hurting you more then it helps! So I wouldn't do that. It may be a temp fix but the problem wouldn't have gone away from these. Then your stuck buying new every 2-3 weeks


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## jestergraphics

.


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## pygocentrus da 3rd

Add a DIY moving bed filter..easy to make..requires special K1 media but is effective for overstocked and post feeding ammonia spikes..peace


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