# 4 Rbp's Too Much Bio Load For 75G?



## SillyGoose (Jul 10, 2016)

just can't seem to get a handle on it ..they range in size from 4-6" ..running an Eheim 2217 and AC110, both well seeded and clean (with tank water) ..powerheads and substrate also clean ..30% water changes every 4 days ..feed once a day (silversides, smelt, whole shrimp, nightcrawlers) and remove any uneaten after 30 min which is rare ..no plants ..am I missing anything?

ammonia levels spike often ..

the next move I can think of is get rid of one or two? figured I'd check in here first before I made that move ..


----------



## yohanan (Oct 5, 2016)

SillyGoose said:


> just can't seem to get a handle on it ..they range in size from 4-6" ..running an Eheim 2217 and AC110, both well seeded and clean (with tank water) ..powerheads and substrate also clean ..30% water changes every 4 days ..feed once a day (silversides, smelt, whole shrimp, nightcrawlers) and remove any uneaten after 30 min which is rare ..no plants ..am I missing anything?
> 
> ammonia levels spike often ..
> 
> the next move I can think of is get rid of one or two? figured I'd check in here first before I made that move ..


 Four red bellies are going to need a MINIMUM of a 100 gallon tank (25 gallon per fish) as well as PLENTY of filtration. The water in the tank will need to be turned over at least six times per hour. Sounds like you are feeding them properly. How long has tank cycled? Some plants would help with nitrates provided fish would leave them alone. I would recommend java ferns as they are easy to care for and not very palatable to fish. Just don't bury the roots or they will die. Tie them to rocks or driftwood. If you have already done so, get a water parameter test kit. Ammonia should be 0, nitrites 0 nitrates less than 20 ppm. Also 4"-6" red bellies should only be fed every 2-3 days. Good luck


----------



## SillyGoose (Jul 10, 2016)

yohanan said:


> just can't seem to get a handle on it ..they range in size from 4-6" ..running an Eheim 2217 and AC110, both well seeded and clean (with tank water) ..powerheads and substrate also clean ..30% water changes every 4 days ..feed once a day (silversides, smelt, whole shrimp, nightcrawlers) and remove any uneaten after 30 min which is rare ..no plants ..am I missing anything?
> 
> ammonia levels spike often ..
> 
> the next move I can think of is get rid of one or two? figured I'd check in here first before I made that move ..


 Four red bellies are going to need a MINIMUM of a 100 gallon tank (25 gallon per fish) as well as PLENTY of filtration. The water in the tank will need to be turned over at least six times per hour. Sounds like you are feeding them properly. How long has tank cycled? Some plants would help with nitrates provided fish would leave them alone. I would recommend java ferns as they are easy to care for and not very palatable to fish. Just don't bury the roots or they will die. Tie them to rocks or driftwood. If you have already done so, get a water parameter test kit. Ammonia should be 0, nitrites 0 nitrates less than 20 ppm. Also 4"-6" red bellies should only be fed every 2-3 days. Good luck
[/quote]

tank has been cycled for 3 months ..feed less, look into java ferns, and re-home one

input appreciated thank you!!


----------



## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

I would disagree with the plants and decor... you will have better odds with no territories and a substrate only tank. If ammonia and things are spiking, its your filtration. Eheim 2217s arent that large or high flow, I would look into a single canister like an API Filstar XP4 or Fluval FX series. You could also do a sump setup on the cheap.

If you want plants, do something floating or tightly in the corners that they cant hide behind.

4 or 5 in a 75 might work... but you might end up with a breeding pair that kills all of the others.


----------



## yohanan (Oct 5, 2016)

SillyGoose said:


> just can't seem to get a handle on it ..they range in size from 4-6" ..running an Eheim 2217 and AC110, both well seeded and clean (with tank water) ..powerheads and substrate also clean ..30% water changes every 4 days ..feed once a day (silversides, smelt, whole shrimp, nightcrawlers) and remove any uneaten after 30 min which is rare ..no plants ..am I missing anything?
> 
> ammonia levels spike often ..
> 
> the next move I can think of is get rid of one or two? figured I'd check in here first before I made that move ..


 Four red bellies are going to need a MINIMUM of a 100 gallon tank (25 gallon per fish) as well as PLENTY of filtration. The water in the tank will need to be turned over at least six times per hour. Sounds like you are feeding them properly. How long has tank cycled? Some plants would help with nitrates provided fish would leave them alone. I would recommend java ferns as they are easy to care for and not very palatable to fish. Just don't bury the roots or they will die. Tie them to rocks or driftwood. If you have already done so, get a water parameter test kit. Ammonia should be 0, nitrites 0 nitrates less than 20 ppm. Also 4"-6" red bellies should only be fed every 2-3 days. Good luck
[/quote]

tank has been cycled for 3 months ..feed less, look into java ferns, and re-home one

input appreciated thank you!!
[/quote]
Happy to oblige. Red bellies were the first piranhas I ever kept. (Many moons ago, I'm kind of an old fart) Being Pygos, they grow more quickly than serrasalmus, but they are a schooling fish, where serras are more loners/ambush hunters. Pygocentrus tend to do better in groups of five or more, thus the necessity for large tanks. In smaller groups, they tend to beat up on each other. (One that I had lost an eye, so I named him "Jack"). Also, red bellies can grow to be a foot long, so When they out grow your seventy five, and it is necessary to get a larger tank for them, A good candidate for your seventy five might be a serrasalmus sanchezi. The "purple spilo" variants are very beautiful and only get to be about 6"-7" so one could be kept in a seventy five its entire life.


----------



## yohanan (Oct 5, 2016)

Ægir said:


> I would disagree with the plants and decor... you will have better odds with no territories and a substrate only tank. If ammonia and things are spiking, its your filtration. Eheim 2217s arent that large or high flow, I would look into a single canister like an API Filstar XP4 or Fluval FX series. You could also do a sump setup on the cheap.
> 
> If you want plants, do something floating or tightly in the corners that they cant hide behind.
> 
> 4 or 5 in a 75 might work... but you might end up with a breeding pair that kills all of the others.


I agree about the plants/décor territorial issues and the placement of the plants. I was mainly thinking about soaking up nutrients. The floating plants are a good idea, I like the amazon frogbit. It would also help to subdue the lighting which should make the fish a little less skittish.


----------



## SillyGoose (Jul 10, 2016)

Ægir said:


> I would disagree with the plants and decor... you will have better odds with no territories and a substrate only tank. If ammonia and things are spiking, its your filtration. Eheim 2217s arent that large or high flow, I would look into a single canister like an API Filstar XP4 or Fluval FX series. You could also do a sump setup on the cheap.
> 
> If you want plants, do something floating or tightly in the corners that they cant hide behind.
> 
> 4 or 5 in a 75 might work... but you might end up with a breeding pair that kills all of the others.


yes currently tank is just substrate no plants or decor ..I will look into upgrading filtration, I actually have another 2217 I may fire up


----------



## Piranhakeeper23 (Oct 31, 2016)

I have had 4 Red Bellies in a 65 gallon for 3 months and for the first 3 months I had a crappy hang on the back filter and they were perfectly fine but I just uprgraded to a Aquatop CF Series Canister Filter 525gph but my red bellies seem happy I have fake plants and like 3 rock things for them to hide in. Also doing water changes like 2 a month and feeding beef cubes. Anyway good luck!


----------



## SillyGoose (Jul 10, 2016)

update here ..my buddy convinced me to add two Hydro Sponge 4 PROs to my tank and after three weeks parameters and clarity is spot on ..kept all four P's, did reduce feeding to 4x a week vs everyday ..these were given to me so I didn't spend $$$ but the two sponge setups could have been had for under $30 including pumps ..the water in this tank has never been this crystal clear, sponges are def the real deal for bio ..upgrading to a 90G very soon ..thanks for responses I've used all your advice

so total filtration 75G - Eheim 2217, AC110, (2) Hydro Sponge 4 PROs


----------



## timmy (Mar 29, 2004)

SillyGoose said:


> update here ..my buddy convinced me to add two Hydro Sponge 4 PROs to my tank and after three weeks parameters and clarity is spot on ..kept all four P's, did reduce feeding to 4x a week vs everyday ..these were given to me so I didn't spend $$$ but the two sponge setups could have been had for under $30 including pumps ..the water in this tank has never been this crystal clear, sponges are def the real deal for bio ..upgrading to a 90G very soon ..thanks for responses I've used all your advice
> 
> so total filtration 75G - Eheim 2217, AC110, (2) Hydro Sponge 4 PROs


I am glad you got a handle on the ammonia issues... Don't bother with a 90 gallon upgrade as it is the same foot print of the 75. Save for a 125 or larger tank....


----------



## SillyGoose (Jul 10, 2016)

SillyGoose said:


> update here ..my buddy convinced me to add two Hydro Sponge 4 PROs to my tank and after three weeks parameters and clarity is spot on ..kept all four P's, did reduce feeding to 4x a week vs everyday ..these were given to me so I didn't spend $$$ but the two sponge setups could have been had for under $30 including pumps ..the water in this tank has never been this crystal clear, sponges are def the real deal for bio ..upgrading to a 90G very soon ..thanks for responses I've used all your advice
> 
> so total filtration 75G - Eheim 2217, AC110, (2) Hydro Sponge 4 PROs


update to the update ..well looks like I got a little too excited too fast there ..the sponges did help take me to the next level of improvement however the ammonia spikes remained albeit less frequent ..so I ended up getting a good deal on a Fluval 406 (right around 400gph) paired that up with my well seeded Eheim 2217 (around 260gph) I still have the AC110 also, so I'm over the 10x gph that Aegir recommends and what do you know been straight for a few weeks now, no spikes finally ..going to give the Fluval a few more weeks to get real nice then I may lose the AC110 and see if the parameters hold up ..they are popular on here but its too bulky and loud for me, I'm also not totally sold on how effective it is ..rather take that media and stick in another canister


----------



## Ægir (Jan 21, 2006)

Glad to hear things are working out!


----------



## SillyGoose (Jul 10, 2016)

SillyGoose said:


> update here ..my buddy convinced me to add two Hydro Sponge 4 PROs to my tank and after three weeks parameters and clarity is spot on ..kept all four P's, did reduce feeding to 4x a week vs everyday ..these were given to me so I didn't spend $$$ but the two sponge setups could have been had for under $30 including pumps ..the water in this tank has never been this crystal clear, sponges are def the real deal for bio ..upgrading to a 90G very soon ..thanks for responses I've used all your advice
> 
> so total filtration 75G - Eheim 2217, AC110, (2) Hydro Sponge 4 PROs


update to the update ..well looks like I got a little too excited too fast there ..the sponges did help take me to the next level of improvement however the ammonia spikes remained albeit less frequent ..so I ended up getting a good deal on a Fluval 406 (right around 400gph) paired that up with my well seeded Eheim 2217 (around 260gph) I still have the AC110 also, so I'm over the 10x gph that Aegir recommends and what do you know been straight for a few weeks now, no spikes finally ..going to give the Fluval a few more weeks to get real nice then I may lose the AC110 and see if the parameters hold up ..they are popular on here but its too bulky and loud for me, I'm also not totally sold on how effective it is ..rather take that media and stick in another canister
[/quote]

had enough of the AC110 so I yanked it and took all that media and stuck in in a SUNSUN HW-303B (370gph)that I purchased for $58 shipped ..really not a bad canister at all was skeptical getting it so cheap ..easy set up and flow rate is def better than the 2217 with way more room for media ..the tank setup is so much cleaner looking now and way quieter minus the AC HOB and sponges

so 3 canisters on this bitch now with, in theory, 1017gph of filtration

all set for that eventual tank upgrade


----------

