# black piranha identification



## michaelj

I bought this piranha from big als in whitby ontario for 45 dollars on sale from $69. they had about 12 of them at the time, a month later they still have 12 but theyre new ones. I have owned many RBP's in the past, but always wanted a serra because I didnt like how skittish the RB's are. so I purchased this fish, its over 2.5 inches, and scared as hell, I was really upset to find out how skittish this fish was, after reading about juvie finger chasin serras occasionally on p-fury. I know each fish is a different case, and serras take a while to warm up, but its been over two months and frankly it is more shy than any RB I have owned in the past and getting past skittishness was the whole reason I opted for my first serra. The fish is feeding on guppies and convicts at the moment since I dont like feeding goldies, and it refuses to eat anything not alive. yes it eats the tails only and thats fine by me knowing these fish and theyre diet but I would really like a I.D on what type of serra this is. it sits in the corner hiding all day, whether the lights are on or off or if anyone is in the room or not. I dont have a background and I think that is drastically affecting its sense of cover, it only eats every couple days ie actually eats the fish, but will kill mercilessly every fish put in the tank. I am desperatly looking for an ID on this fish so I can understand more about it and appreciate why it acts this way as a juvenile. I am patient, just frustrated I dont know what kind of serra it is. I understand how hard it is to ID juvenile P's, I tried my best to grab some good pictures. thank you so much in advance of your replies


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## Grosse Gurke

Looks like a rhom to me. Not unusual for a shy juvy Serrasalmus though....I would say the "finger chasers" are the rare ones.


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## pirayaman

it looks like my rhom just a much smaller version

backround 
floating cover ie plants 
bogwood 
no hiding spots 
plants 
amazon water color if all else fails

try these things and get back to me i know how to make a piranha feel comfy and in his home habitat

nice pick up glad to see you are this crazy for piranhas

are you keeping him with another piranha the 3rd pic looks as such soo i was just wondering


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## fassw22

pirayaman said:


> it looks like my rhom just a much smaller version
> 
> backround
> floating cover ie plants
> bogwood
> no hiding spots
> plants
> amazon water color if all else fails
> 
> try these things and get back to me i know how to make a piranha feel comfy and in his home habitat
> 
> nice pick up glad to see you are this crazy for piranhas
> 
> are you keeping him with another piranha the 3rd pic looks as such soo i was just wondering


i think thats just the reflection off of the glass making it look like two fish...

i had a serra that was about an inch big, he was really skittish for the first couple of months i had him but after that he did get mean...the only piranha i had that would really chase my finger...my reds will do it once in a while but its very rare.

i havent owned many serras so i dont really know what to tell you...i do know all fish are different but i think you just have to let him settle in more and maybe spend more time in front of the tank to let him get used to you...i bet hell eventually come around...good luck!


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## michaelj

No he's in one of my 29g's for his size right now. when he caps 4 or 5 inches I'l move him to a 55G I have set up for africans at the moment. I love P's, I really appreciate the ideas and I will try the bogwood, overhead growth etc, he is special I can see it, but I stay patient knowing as I feed him, I will one day know exactly what strain of serra I have. it always struck me as odd that he had clear/yellow eyes, yellow anal fin and was extremly skittish with the most striking feature I noitced being a much longer mouth than normal. another thing I noticed is my RB's ripped theyre food into crude bits, whereas this guy seems to have a samurai sword for a mouth. anything he touches gets sheered in half as if an exacto knife worked on it. anyways I hope as he gets bigger I can make a positive ID. I notice over and over that his eyes are not red and neither is his anal fin but maybe I'm just an over-concious RB guy in action lol


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## michaelj

good point though, I am only home 2 days out of 7 a week, when I'm not home his light is OFF, when I come ho,e its ON and that must be a shock to him/her. I have MANY tanks at home and my room matfeeds them while I'm gone but the serra he dosent feed cuz theyre no live fish at home + when I come home I bnring fresh live convicts, guppies etc from the pet store. so ya if his light is off 5 days outta 7 than ya that could explainb why he is so skittish. any other experience wouldl be much appreciat5ed, other than that. sorry to bother you guys with usual questions.


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## Piranha Guru

michaelj said:


> good point though, I am only home 2 days out of 7 a week, when I'm not home his light is OFF, when I come ho,e its ON and that must be a shock to him/her. I have MANY tanks at home and my room matfeeds them while I'm gone but the serra he dosent feed cuz theyre no live fish at home + when I come home I bnring fresh live convicts, guppies etc from the pet store. so ya if his light is off 5 days outta 7 than ya that could explainb why he is so skittish. any other experience wouldl be much appreciat5ed, other than that. sorry to bother you guys with usual questions.


Get a timer for the light...you really should be feeding him at least once a day at that size, but if the convicts last for several days then that is probably okay. Eventually you'll want to get him eating chopped up bits of catfish, tilapia, shrimp, krill, etc...

I've had several small serras and sometimes I had to give them guppies or tetras when they went on hunger strikes, but they all eventually came around. The best food at that size seemed to be live blackworms. I'm glad my favorite fish store was still open then, because you could toss in a bunch and not worry about them fouling the water. My marginatus and irritans loved them when they were little!


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## Rigor_mortiZ_Rhom

Be careful with adding the driftwood as it often lowers the PH of the water...


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## michaelj

somthing that caught my attention. his gill plate and anal fin and caudal fin have yellow to them, and I thought I read black rhoms have red eyes. yet his were almost yellow. just wondering if this could shed any light on my problem. I bought him from big als and theyre a very reputable fish store in canada. I know the fish guy who does the pricing and ordering so I wonder if he might know more about them and where they were captured or just "yep I ordered number 68 on the fish menu, thats all I know about them" what do you guys think about all this??


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## Grosse Gurke

I wouldnt worry about the red eyes yet...they usually show up as the fish get a little larger...say 4"-6". Yellow is too uncommon...rhoms come in all different colors. It can be hard to ID a small fish...so if you want to grow him out a bit and then take some new pictures for an ID...go for it. He looks like a rhombeus to me....but Ive been wrong before


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## michaelj

yellow is too uncommon? please explain what you mean, I think you meant yellow in juveniles is too common to correctly distinguish....I'm having a bit of a hard time with this so please correct me if I'm wrong theres many serra species like eigens, elongs, etc but only one serrasalmus rhombus and that is the only fish to be correctly described as 'black piranha' ? so calling any serra a black piranha or a rhom is wrong? please explain if you can. because my next question is what about common names like black diamon or blue diamond ? these are only names given to the species serrasalmus rhombus and just different different colouration or collection points? big als had 12 of them and they were marked as "black piranha" I dont know how weight that holds coming from a reputable dealer after all I've read, it seems you cant guarantee anything.


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## Grosse Gurke

michaelj said:


> yellow is too uncommon? please explain what you mean, I think you meant yellow in juveniles is too common to correctly distinguish....I'm having a bit of a hard time with this so please correct me if I'm wrong theres many serra species like eigens, elongs, etc but only one serrasalmus rhombus and that is the only fish to be correctly described as 'black piranha' ? so calling any serra a black piranha or a rhom is wrong? please explain if you can. because my next question is what about common names like black diamon or blue diamond ? these are only names given to the species serrasalmus rhombus and just different different colouration or collection points? big als had 12 of them and they were marked as "black piranha" I dont know how weight that holds coming from a reputable dealer after all I've read, it seems you cant guarantee anything.


Sorry...I meant it isnt too uncommon. Sorry for the confusion. Rhombeus come in mainly red and yellow when young...and then the color tends to fade as they age.

Black piranha is a common name...and it has been applied to a bunch of different fish....but mainly rhombeus.

Common names like blue diamond, gold diamond.....they are only visual descriptions of the fish. They dont mean anything. It is the same as calling a girl a blond or brunette. You are just making a visual distinction...but it doesnt change the fact that both of the women are humans. Same with blue diamond or black diamond....you look at the fish and if you think it looks blue with sparkles....and you want to call it a blue diamond rhom....go for it.


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## michaelj

thank you very much man, that helped me out alot. I like to read up before I ask a question as its ignorant to ask a question when you can find the answer easily yourself but the more I read the more vague it seemed to get between, black, serra, rhom, diamonds etc thank you...so does this mean you know what kind of serra I have?!?!?????? lmao jokes. I'l play the waiting game and keep feeding him fresh fish market slices until he gets bigger and I can take some high quality 7mega pixel shots, preferably once his eyes go red, after you said that, I noticed his eyes are moving ever so slightly from yellow to a hue of burgundy


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## Yanfloist

Yeah, that's a Serrasalmus Rhombeus alright. I wouldn't worry too much about him not being what you want him to be. At the longest, his eyes should turn a light orange-red at 6 inches. When it pass 6 inches mark and there is no red-ornage eye color then it's most likely not a rhombues. Their eyes do not get a soild or ruby red until they are full grown adults, talking well over 10-16+ inches by far. I've heard that if a baby rhom has most yellow colors to the gill plates and fins then its a female. If it has mostly orange-red colors to the gill plate and fin, then its a male. I'm not too sure though, just thought I'd share that. Either way they both should always have a soild dark ban on the tail fin with no clear ban at the very end, and a black ban on the anal fin, which may vary with age.


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## Lifer374

Thats not correct. You cannot sex a piranha by the coloration of the gill plate. 
Also, eye coloration totally depends on the idividual fish. Sometimes the rusty or red color comes in early at say 4", sometimes later on rhoms eyes measuring 8". 
Its all genetics.


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