# Long-term effects of AM?



## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Over the past few months, I've posted numerous threads about how my 55g has consistently high AM and 0 Nitrites. It's been 4 months now that my tank has had this AM problem. I've exhausted every angle of what it might be and tried to rectify it with no solutions. I've stumped many people on what is causing it. The only conclusion I can make is that my tank is forever stuck in a mid-cyle of sorts and never developed the proper NI to break down the AM.

However, my fish are doing absolutely great, they show no signs of stress. Their colors are vibrant, they eat regularly & seem 100% fine.

Obviously, the RB's have adapted to the quality of the water. My question is that if the AM remains consistent indefinitely, will my fish slowly suffer and eventually die?

FYI, I'd say the level of AM is always about 2.0-4.0 with little fluctation from water changes. The PH level is also very low (6.0) which helps bring down the toxicity of the AM. It's not my test kit either, I have tested the water at two lfs with the same results. Most of them questioned how my fish were still alive. It's also not my tap water.

P's are tough, but are they suffering in there and not showing it?

LMK your thoughts.
Thanks!


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## Dr. Giggles (Oct 18, 2003)

Since most test kits usually only go as low as 6.0 is it possible yours may be less ?? Nitrifiers do begin to die off at around a 5.5 pH and below.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I dont know what kind of filtration you have....but could it be because you do not have sufficient bio-media to hold a population of bacteria needed for your bio-load?


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

I've got an Eheim 2215 & AC70 running on the tank so that's about 465gph which I think is fine for my bio load. I replaced the carbon with AM remover in the AC70 but had no difference in AM levels.

I'm at my wits end and am dealing with it, at least the fish are doing good, but I just wanted to know what kind of damage it would cause.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I have talked to others that have had issues with ammonia remover pads. First...if they are absorbing ammonia then the bacteria that will feed on ammonia will not populate sufficiently because of the limited food supply. Then...after a while they will begin to leach ammonia back into the water and overwhelm your bacteria with an increase in ammonia. I would say that this could easily be your problem. I would remove those ammonia chips and stick with cycling the old fashion way....it will pay off in the end.

What size tank do you have and what is your stocking like?


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## NegativeSpin (Aug 1, 2007)

http://www.hach.com/hc/search.product.deta...E9PUJqSXhOag==|

GG has a possible explanation for an ammonia spike: The nitrosomonos bacteria need to reach the right population to convert all of the ammonia. Maybe simple test strips will eliminate human error.


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## Piranha Dan (Nov 11, 2007)

What sounds weird to me is that it's not flucuating with water changes. Could there be something in your water that's giving you a false ammonia reading?


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## Retaks (Apr 6, 2008)

How long after water changes do you test the water? When i use certain types of water conditioner i would get a flase reading of amonia in my tank. Some were only for a hour or so and some were 10+ hours it would show. I tryed a few different ones and now i only use Stress Coat. it may still give a false reading but i dont test my water until atleast an hour after a water change so im not worried about it.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for all the input everyone.

A few questions/points:

- Do the test strips differ from a working API test kit?
- Would you suggest I replace the AM remover in the AC70 with an extra bag of BioMax?
- I normally test the water the next morning after doing a 30%-40% water change
- Tank is standard 55g with four 4"- 5" RB's
- I feed them once a day sparingly, fish out any leftovers immediately
- If my PH is indeed below 6.0, would this stunt the cycle process?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

You should have enough bio-media in the eheim. I would just add another sponge to the AC. Before you go out and try a different testing method...I would give it about a week or two and see what happens by removing the ammonia chips. You also might want to start them on a different feeding cycle....like every other day...or every few days...but that is another discussion entirely.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Grosse Gurke said:


> You should have enough bio-media in the eheim. I would just add another sponge to the AC. Before you go out and try a different testing method...I would give it about a week or two and see what happens by removing the ammonia chips. You also might want to start them on a different feeding cycle....like every other day...or every few days...but that is another discussion entirely.


Ok, thanks for the advice. I'll grab another sponge for the AC70 tonight and remove the AM chips. I do skip feeding them on some days, but I know the prob has to be something deeper than that.

I have a good amount of watersprite floating on top of the tank, if there is dead mass in there, could it keep the AM that consistent? My other live plants (java fern & amazon sword) aren't doing spectacular either but not horrible.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

MoJoe said:


> Ok, thanks for the advice. I'll grab another sponge for the AC70 tonight and remove the AM chips. I do skip feeding them on some days, but I know the prob has to be something deeper than that.
> 
> I have a good amount of watersprite floating on top of the tank, if there is dead mass in there, could it keep the AM that consistent? My other live plants (java fern & amazon sword) aren't doing spectacular either but not horrible.


I dont think overfeeding is causing the ammonia....I personally think it has to do with the ammonia chips. I worked with another member that was using them that had issues with ammonia in a tank that was well filtered. I cant think of one reason to use. A new tank wont cycle without a food source and a cycled tank will not benefit from an artificial reduction in ammonia unless it is permanent and consistent. I dont believe that is the case with ammonia chips.

The reason I mentioned feeding is because I believe most people on this forum overfeed their fish. Just an opinion though.


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## MoJoe (Mar 5, 2008)

Grosse Gurke said:


> Ok, thanks for the advice. I'll grab another sponge for the AC70 tonight and remove the AM chips. I do skip feeding them on some days, but I know the prob has to be something deeper than that.
> 
> I have a good amount of watersprite floating on top of the tank, if there is dead mass in there, could it keep the AM that consistent? My other live plants (java fern & amazon sword) aren't doing spectacular either but not horrible.


I dont think overfeeding is causing the ammonia....I personally think it has to do with the ammonia chips. I worked with another member that was using them that had issues with ammonia in a tank that was well filtered. I cant think of one reason to use. A new tank wont cycle without a food source and a cycled tank will not benefit from an artificial reduction in ammonia unless it is permanent and consistent. I dont believe that is the case with ammonia chips.

The reason I mentioned feeding is because I believe most people on this forum overfeed their fish. Just an opinion though.
[/quote]

I do hope you're right, although the params were exactly the same before I put the AC70 on there. I had added it because I was initially just running the Eheim by itself for filtration. I had surely thought the lack of gph was keeping the AM high. So, after having the AC70 on it for the past month I was confused why nothing was changing.

Thanks again, I'll report back if there's any fluctations with the AM after getting those chips out.

BTW, does anyone if high AM for a long period of time can hurt the fish internally, but not outwardly?


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

I think ammonia has more effect on the soft tissue areas like the gills, eyes and soft part of the fins...then it would on any internal organs....so I dont believe there would be any long term effect. I do not know for sure though.


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## Grosse Gurke (Jan 3, 2003)

Imo...things like ammonia chips will mask problems in your tank....or even exacerbate them......but not fix them. There was a reason you had an ammonia reading...either your bio-load was more then your bio-filtration could handle...or you were getting a false reading. Since you have taken your water in and had it tested by the lfs...I doubt it is a false reading. There could be many reasons why your bio-filtration would be overwhelmed...but that is why you were getting a reading....and that is what you need to find out in order to fix the problem. By removing the ammonia chips and giving your bacteria time to catch up to the current bio-load in your tank...it should solve your problem. If it doesnt...then at least we have a clean starting point to try and figure out the problem.

If you are worried about the ammonia...or you start to see some effect on your fish...there are water conditioners that will detoxify ammonia...but still leave it in the tank so the bacteria has a food source. I have never used them...but some people feel they are effective.


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