# tank problems



## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

humm I have my 41 red bellys in a 240 gal. I have 2 emporer 400 filters, and 2 penguin 330 filters. each has filter and bio pack, and bio wheels. I have 1-2"s of gravel, and sword plants. I keep the tank at 82F. the lights are on a timer for 4 hr's a day, after natural light ends. This tank used to be clean all the time. It has been cloudy. I have been changing the water almost 3 times a week. I thought it was the amount of food they were eating. but I did a water change and did not feed them for a week. the tank is still cloudy. They have been having random fungus infections. I treated them for 15 days and it looks to be clearing up. but the tank is still always cloudy. My ph has always been high. but there never was a problem before. I just today cleaned the tank, vacummed the gravel and cleaned the filter intakes. did a 50% water change and the water is still cloudy. I will have the water tested, but anyone have any ideas as to way its always cloudy now. I changed 75% of the water 2 weeks ago and it was clear, untill three days ago. 
I don't understand it, my other tanks are always crystal clear.
any help would be great


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## hydroshutter (Jan 12, 2003)

Today if you did the filter, water change. You just lost a sufficient amount of bacteria. Don't worry about the cloudy water, It will eventually turn clear again. It happened on my 55 for about 2 weeks.


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## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

Oh should have said It's been cloudy for almost or more then a month..


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## nitrofish (Jan 14, 2003)

its normal, it has to finish cyleing, it will eventually clear up on its own.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

I would agree with hydroshutter and nitrofish, but it also could be a food source - if you have been feeding low cost flakes or something.
But I would stop the water changes for a week or two and see if it helps


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## thePACK (Jan 3, 2003)

have you changed your charcoal?if not change your charcoal.that will help too..


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## CHUD (Jan 4, 2003)

How long have you had the 240 up and running? Looks to me that your tank bioload (41 natts) is far greater than what your filter and water changes can handle. If I were to make a hypothesis, I would say that the cloudiness is a bacterial bloom. If your tank is newly set up than it probably isn't completely cycled or if it is completely cycled than the import of nutrients is greater than the export.

Definately test the water for ammonia and nitrite. Just to let you know, water clarity is not always an indicator of good water quality. Get a test kit to erase any doubt in your mind.

If I were you, I would find another tank to put some of the natts in to lighten the bioload until you fix the current tank problem. I would also restrict feeding, gradually lower temp. to about 78F, and gradually lower pH to about 7.0. I would buy a freshwater buffer to stablelize pH to neutral. Having a high pH like you mentioned makes any spike in ammonia and nitrite exponentially more deadly. For maintenance sake, not aesthetic reasons, I would remove the gravel because it had a tendency to trap a lot of sh*t and uneaten food and metabolic wastes, plus it will cut back on your tank maintence. In addition, I would invest in a wet/dry filter with a very high gph pump. A wet/dry filter will provide a much greater surface area for the aerobic bacteria to colonate via bioballs. Plus having a really powerful pump in conjunction with the wet/dry will increase turnover rate and provide your natts with a more powerful current to exercise.

I sure fire and quick way to eradicate ammonia and nitrite is using a product called Bio-Spira by Marineland. I really don't want to go into this, but I have used it on several new set ups and I promise you it will dramatically lower your ammonia and nitrite readings within 24 hours. Ammonia and nitrite should be 0 within 48hrs.

Good luck


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## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

The tank is clear this morning, I took a ph reading last night and it was low 6.8 and took it again this morning and is still 6.8, It used to be around 8.4- 9.00. I'll leave it alone and see what happends. thanks guys.


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## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

Stop doing so many water changes. Your tank can't cycle like that. Your taking all the bacteria out before it can properly cycle. So there are a few things you can do. One, you need to have a bigger filter and I don't mean more hang on's. You need a wet/dry, which can handle your biological filtration. The wet/dry will prevent cloudy water. But I suggest you get a big one. The thing is wet/drys can hand valuable gallonage to your tank. Because you have such a bioload you need all the water you can get. Plus having all that bio filtration isn't bad either. The other thing you can do is add a automatic water changer which adds new water everyday. But 41 ps is allot so a wet/dry in my opinion is not only necessary but mandatory.

SMTT


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

Show_Me_The_Teeth said:


> Stop doing so many water changes. Your tank can't cycle like that.
> 
> SMTT


Thanks SMTT - say the same thing as me, but use more words! :rasp:


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## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

I don't beleave that it is not enough bio filtation, I know alot of you don't like hang on filters, but i've been using them for 12 years. The only way I can get a big enough wet/dry for my tank would be to do a sump in its own tank, and i'm not going that far. I do not beleave 41 p's is to much, a 240 gal tank is huge and is not overcrouded at all. I do respect your appion but don't agree with it. thanks guys for the help.


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## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

you guys prove good points for him ... too much water in the changes dude and I would think that you have way too many fish in there, thats under 6G for each P :O ...


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## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

I don't beleave in the 20g per p's so called rule, but thats just my opinion. sorry


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## SnowCichlid. (Jan 10, 2003)

well thats fine casue i think you can get away with that 2 ... that rule only aplys if you are not an expert at taking care of fish ... things like maintenance and tank setup ... but I think that they might need more than 5 somewhat G a fish ... just my opinion though ... But if its not creating any problems and they seem to be happy then i gotta say "NICE WORK GENIUS"


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

I don't think your bio-filter is the problem, or too many fish - you are hust doing too many water changes.
Frank the p-scientist was saying the other day that piranhas have more problems with people cleaning too much, than not enough.
he personally only cleans his tanks every month, or whenever he feels they need it.


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## Innes (Jan 13, 2003)

edit: just - not hust!
My finger slipped


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

With your current filtration you are only turing that tank over bout 6x per hour which is not nearly sufficient for a tank as overcroweded as that. You don't want to listen to people who say that the tank is overcrowded and underfiltered, but those are the reasons you fish are having trouble and your tank is cloudy. The 20 gallon per p rule is not set in stone, but that tank will see some deaths very shortly either from inadequate water parameters or just from way too many p's in that tank. Have you checked your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels yet?


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## fishman2 (Nov 27, 2002)

I go with too many water changes. Back off from it.


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

Moved to Equipment Discussion


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## WebHostExpert (Jan 16, 2003)

I think it was the water changes, we'll see, the fish have been in there for close to six months if they were gonna die they'd have done it...


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## Xenon (Nov 15, 2002)

You arent allowing that much room for growth though.....you might wanna consider selling off some of those p's...


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

Just cause the fish don't die doesn't mean that they are not stressed out pretty badly, which also doesn't help with diseases, and like xenon said you are not leaving much room for growth.

Mark


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## Show_Me_The_Teeth (Dec 4, 2002)

MAD piranhas said:


> I don't beleave that it is not enough bio filtation, I know alot of you don't like hang on filters, but i've been using them for 12 years. The only way I can get a big enough wet/dry for my tank would be to do a sump in its own tank, and i'm not going that far. I do not beleave 41 p's is to much, a 240 gal tank is huge and is not overcrouded at all. I do respect your appion but don't agree with it. thanks guys for the help.


What do you think is the problem? I'll put my money were my mouth is on this one. Theres to much waste in the tank and with all the water changes you are doing the bacteria never gets ahead of the waste so the water stay cloudy. But we are all have our own opinions but Let me tell you this I have 14 reds, 4 ternetzi, 1 12" lima catfish, 2 common plecos, 1 blue phantom, and all are living in my 200. But I just need to look at the prefilters to know theres allot of waste in that tank and I know no hang on filter is going to give me the bio filteration I need, it may provide mechincal but not biological.

SMTT


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## mdemers883 (Jan 9, 2003)

I'm sensing a trend in this thread. People giving the same advice i.e. too many fish and not enough filtration. Too bad he is not listening to the advice :ghostface:

Mark


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