# is this a black piranha?



## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

http://picasaweb.google.com/Johnseito/Fish#

the person who sold it to me a year ago say it is a black piranha, until today I noticed red throat piranha fish I see in the fish store have a fish similar to the one I have 
so I wonder is what I have a black piranha or red throat.

do black piranha have red throat??

look at the picture and tell me what this fish is.

thx


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

Nope its S. sanchezi. They will only get about 6" and like rhoms are solitary fish. This is a great piranha for smaller aquariums (30g minimum). If im not mistaken they are part of the rhombeus complex, but they are not the same as s. rhombeus. Rhoms can have red throats, but generally they wont

also, for future use there is an id forum that you can use for this purpose. I myself have a sanchezi and they are cool fish for many reason even though there the smallest (one of) piranha


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

Appears to be a Serrasalmus sanchezi. They are a great fish and can be kept for life in a smaller tank than a S. rhombeus (black piranha).


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

not good news for me, b/c when I brought it, I asked for black piranha and the person who sold it to me sold me what he say is a black piranha and I was 
lead to believe that it is a black piranha up until now. I was suspicious today only when I went to the fish store and saw a bunch of fish that look
like mine and on the tank it is name as red throat, (I assumed red throat is sanchezi) so I thought mine fish may be a red throat and not a black piranha as the person who sold it to me say it was.

I noticed this fish gotten aggressive since I had him, he start to react to movement outside the tank, as if my hand was moving he would chase it. He is a vicious 
fin nipper as well.

I think I will get rid of him and get a rhom because that is what I ask for in the beginning but the guy gave me this. 
*
Do you know if a black piranha at half a inch and a red belly at half an inch, do they look the same at this size?
*

do Serrasalmus sanchezi grow quicker than rhom?

they both have the same body shape as the black piranha right but maybe not grow as big and not as aggressive?

I will wait until a few more month and see if he turn blacker, with a red eye b/c that is what black piranha does, they get black and red eye when they get 
bigger.

my fish right now is 5 inches, not sure if rhom can have red on it's belly at 5 inches.


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## Gerrad (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm not a expert but I would guess sanchezi. Like this example.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> not good news for me, b/c when I brought it, I asked for black piranha and the person who sold it to me sold me what he say is a black piranha and I was
> lead to believe that it is a black piranha up until now. I was suspicious today only when I went to the fish store and saw a bunch of fish that look
> like mine and on the tank it is name as red throat*Common names dont mean jack. red throat is a charachteristic, not a species. There are also red throat rhoms, but this is a sanchezi*, (I assumed red throat is sanchezi) so I thought mine fish may be a red throat and not a black piranha as the person who sold it to me say it was.
> 
> ...


Also, i doubt the guy you got it from intentionall sold you a sanchezi as a rhom. These species are commonly confused by people who arnt overly familar with piranhas as pretty much all serrasalmus species at lfs are sold as black piranhas since i doubt they could even name any other species of serrasalmus species not to mention be able to identify them.

Sanchezi like all p's have a fast first year of growth then for the next couple years has less and less noticable growth. After the first year, growth is greatly decreased. About 4" a sanchezi wont be growing much any more then it takes a couple years for it to grow the last couple inches.


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

now I may be believing that it is a sanchezi but the guy I brought it from say is black piranha b/c that is what I ask for. 
I was lead to believe it was a rhom for a whole year,

unless Miraculously it is a rhom, do you think there is a possibility that he may be a rhom or no possibility at all?

and
*Do you know if a black piranha at half a inch and a red belly at half an inch, do they look the same at this size?
*


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> now I may be believing that it is a sanchezi but the guy I brought it from say is black piranha b/c that is what I ask for.
> I was lead to believe it was a rhom for a whole year, *What size did you get it at? If it was a rhom and youve had it for a year it probably would of been about 1" when you got it ad about 6" now*
> 
> unless Miraculously it is a rhom, do you think there is a possibility that he may be a rhom or no possibility at all?* possibility, but i doubt it. Not many red throat rhoms are imported to lfs*
> ...


The look similar, but any serra will usually have more of a concave forehead then pygos at any size

You could also look on this sites classifieds for rhoms and to sell the sanchezi if you want. On the right of the screen shark aquarium and aquascape are 2 good piranha vendors that ship fish. Shipping is usually about 50-75$ or so for small quantities of fish.


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

_ What reason do you want a rhom for?_

b/c I heard a lot of black piranha and I just want to see 
a black piranha's nature that they are vicious. but I have to say that this sanchezi that I have is pretty tough, I put him in with 
a wolf at 7 inches, the wolf would attack him every time he is near him, then when he gets mad he fights back and attack the wolf too.
I had to separate the two, I also have him with a red belly that is bigger than him, but he is always stay away from the red belly.

_The look similar, but any serra will usually have more of a concave forehead then pygos at any size
_

I have some red belly and rhom, as per the person who sold it to me say they are red belly and rhom at a quarter of an inches and both of the red belly and rhom look a like with absolutely no difference at all, no concave forehead. unless again it was sold to me wrong and both are just red bellies.

I thought my fish would get darker in it's 2nd year and with a red eye, but since is going to be a sanchezi then I guess it will not.


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

I invested a whole year in this fish and found out is a sanchezi, when all along I thought it was a rhom and I thought it may be blacker this year since this is 
his 2nd year. bummer .

I recently purchase baby size, at a quarter to half an inch red belly and black piranha, both are alike, can't even tell the difference between them by body shape.

I hope that a year later, I don't find out is something else and is not red belly and black piranha as they say when I brought it. and that the black piranha turn out
to either be sanchezi or red bellies.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> _ What reason do you want a rhom for?_
> 
> b/c I heard a lot of black piranha and I just want to see
> a black piranha's nature that they are vicious. *you will soon find alot of piranha myth is hollywood* but I have to say that this sanchezi that I have is pretty tough*rhoms are not the only piranha. There just talked of since they are more common. there are alot of other piranhas that arnt portrayed by hollywood such as elongatus piranha that are agressive*, I put him in with
> ...


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> I invested a whole year in this fish and found out is a sanchezi, when all along I thought it was a rhom and I thought it may be blacker this year since this is
> his 2nd year. bummer .
> 
> I recently purchase baby size, at a quarter to half an inch red belly and black piranha, both are alike, can't even tell the difference between them by body shape. *at small sizes its harder to tell which is why some IDing large fish is more accurate. at that size you can usually only tell if its a pygo or serra*
> ...


What size did you get the sanchezi at?

Not sure if you know what Serrasalmus and Pygocentrus are (these are the genus names of piranha species) so:

Serras- not true piranhas, but still regarded as piranhas. These p's stay solo in nature and aquarium. One serra per tank. no other fish. Includes to name a few.S.sanchezi, rhombeus, irritans, elongatus, altuvie, brandtii, geryii, marginatus...

pygo- shoaling piranha in nature and aquariums. Can keep multiple in a "species tank" of just pygo piranhas. Unlike serrasalmus species pygos can cohab even with other speceis of pygos
There are 3 species in this genus are P. caribe, piraya and nattereri/ ternetzi (red bellied piranha)
These 3 are the only "true" species of piranha


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

*The wolf will kill the sanchezi soon imo if you dont remove it.
*

at first yes i was afraid of wolf killing him, because he wouldn't dare touch the wolf, he could nip fin a lot of fish but not the wolf, as 
soon as he approach the wolf, the wolf is aggressively attacking him, then I noticed one day he fight back and bid a piece of the wolf mouth, not 
much damage as the wolf grow back, the wolf also left a bid of mark on his body, I have now separate them.

but both of them get along better than most other fish I put with him.

*
serrasalmus and pygocentrus piranhas dont mix.*

I read that a rhom will beat and kill a red belly bigger than him, but the fish as you called sanchezi I have is scare of the red belly he stays away from him
and when red belly comes near he would move.

I don't get why a sanchezi would be solo, i only thought that is for black piranha. so could you tell the difference between a sanchezi and a rhom at baby size?

*post a pic.*

I will take some pics soon and post them, but they are very small, is hard, i will try.


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

you say a wolf will kill a sanchezi but can a wolf easily kill a black piranha or vice versa?


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## Lifer374 (Dec 5, 2003)

Its no more in a rhoms nature to be "vicious" then any other serra. You'll find that out if you get rid of your Sanchezi for a baby rhom.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> *The wolf will kill the sanchezi soon imo if you dont remove it.
> *
> 
> at first yes i was afraid of wolf killing him, because he wouldn't dare touch the wolf, he could nip fin a lot of fish but not the wolf, as
> ...


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> you say a wolf will kill a sanchezi but can a wolf easily kill a black piranha or vice versa?


 If the wolf is 7" and the sanchezi 5" right there the wolf is at an advantage. Either way at the same size i would probably bet on the wolf over a sanchezi or rhom as wolf fish are crazy. I wouldnt say the kill would be easy, but i think it would get the kill against any piranha of a comparable size.

Like tango said, each piranha is different. Pretty much "to each their own" some are pansies, others badass. Its more on the indivdal rather then the species.


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

Tango374 said:


> Its no more in a rhoms nature to be "vicious" then any other serra. You'll find that out if you get rid of your Sanchezi for a baby rhom.


in other words you mean? I didn't follow your first sentence. so you are saying a rhom is more vicious?

I tried to take pictures but the flash is killing it, and then without the flash, you just can't see the pics b/c is dark, I have to try many times to get good accurate pictures.


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

OK, look at some more picture of the fish I have that you called a sanchezi. He only has red throat when is at night but I took some picture again in the morning
and he doesn't have red throat for some reason, do you still think he is a SANCHEZI or a RHOM??

the next set of pictures I took in the morning and he doesn't have red throat, but when I took it at night, the first 5 he has red throat,

http://picasaweb.google.com/Johnseito/Fish#

let me know what you think


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't know, he may have red throat due to stress or when he sees me, because as I was looking at him, he starts to get redder and redder, when I first woke up and look at him, he is completely almost no red as you could see in the pictures.

20 mins later he start showing a little red again. I could again take pics to show that he is again getting red.

so do you still think he is sanchezi or rhom?


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## Piranha Guru (Nov 24, 2005)

It is a sanchezi. Fish lose their coloration at night and when under severe stress.

It sounds like your fish has a pretty good personality...I would keep it. My first serra was a sanchezi sold to me as a rhom (I still have it). It brought me to this site for ID purposes and I learned a whole lot in a hurry and have had as many as 7 different species of the Serrasalmus genus at a time. I can tell you that the temperment or "viciousness" of the fish really comes down to the individual fish and how it responds to its environment.

Check out OPEFE and read up on the different groups and species of piranhas. Check out their sanchezi link for info on your fish.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> Check out OPEFE and read up on the different groups and species of piranhas. Check out their sanchezi link for info on your fish.


i agree to check opefe and this forum and you can learn tons. Theres an opefe link on the right of the screen abit down from jungle boogie vendor banner


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

I would keep him if I have more room, if he occupy a whole tank by himself, then is hard for me to get a nice rhom. I will see.

so someone also sold you a sanchezi and you thought was a rhom. lol. 
and you keep all different species of serrasalmus in separator and different tanks.

I like to see a fish grow, I think my fish is sanchezi as you say is full grown, or will be soon

you say there is an id page, and where is that?


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> I would keep him if I have more room, if he occupy a whole tank by himself, then is hard for me to get a nice rhom. I will see. *What size tank is it? If its anything less then a 75g, i would keep the sanchezi as pretty much all other serras need at least a 75g tank. A sanchezi will be happy in half that as it only gets 6", but m sure any fish will be happier in a larger tank*
> 
> so someone also sold you a sanchezi and you thought was a rhom. lol. *unlinke you two, i bought mine as a sanchezi lol from a member of this site actually*
> and you keep all different species of serrasalmus in separator and different tanks. *yep thats how its done*
> ...


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## jay111 (Dec 25, 2009)

*What size tank is it? 
*

a 30 gallon long I believe. But for this size tank I would still get a baby rhom and grow them since I like to see a fish grow and plus they don't grow very quick I could upgrade later on.

so how do you tell the difference between hollandi and sanchezi and rhom? I know the first two don't grow very big, but both have rhom like body shape.

what I am concern with now is that I brought some red bellies and some rhom as per the person who sold it to me, and both are like half an inch and when
you look at them, they look exact the same, how can I tell if I did get what I brought, I hope not to find out later that the rhom turn out to be red bellies as well or the rhom turn out to be sanchezi or hollandi or some other serrasalmus fish.


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## CLUSTER ONE (Aug 2, 2006)

jay111 said:


> *What size tank is it?
> *
> 
> a 30 gallon long I believe. But for this size tank I would still get a baby rhom and grow them since I like to see a fish grow and plus they don't grow very quick I could upgrade later on.* If you have a 30g i would just keep the sanchezi. After a year, a rhom will need a 75g tank./b]
> ...


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