# Serrulatus Or S.eigenmanni



## Piranha-Freak101

this is best pic i could get


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## CLUSTER ONE

From that pic I can tell it is a Serrasalmus sp.

I would leave it in the tank and get a flank shot. Do you have a collection point?


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## Piranha-Freak101

its almost impossible to see when hes in his tank, i do not know where his collection point was i just bought it from Aquascape. all i know is that i order a serrulatus and got this







. Pedro told me he has 1 serrulatus 1 s.eigenmanni and a s. scapularis


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## Smoke

Serrulatus and Eigenmanni are both debatable species, so either one it ends up being, you're gonna be content. You could find out if it was from Guyana, and if not, call it a Serrulatus....

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/serrulatus.html
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/eigenmanni.html

The best way is to grow out that beast, when they are mature it would be alot easier to distinguish... I think...


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## Piranha-Freak101

ughh this is difficult , im going to call pedro right now to see where the collection point was


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## Piranha-Freak101

pedro told me its 100% serrulatus and the collection point was peru


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## Smoke

piranha-freak101 said:


> pedro told me its 100% serrulatus and the collection point was peru


There ya go. I wouldn't worry at all about it because even the scientific research behind the 2 species doesn't even seem that sure about it either.

If you do want to be a stickler for the details, then this might help:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/piranha038/serrulatus.html

~begin snip:
*S. eigenmanni was originally limited to Guyana and now appears more widespread than originally believed according to French ichthyologist M. Jégu.*
~end snip

~begin snip:
The characters that separate S. serrulatus and S. eigenmanni are few in number, as is the coloration of the fish which is variable with juveniles to adults. Even the number and consistency of body markings is variable inside and out of its populations. I've done my best to isolate the collection points for this particular species. It is not found elsewhere as of this date. To further complicate the historical problem of this species, it was described from Brazil, but S. eigenmanni was described from Guyana as a unique specimen, later revised by Fink & Machado-Allison (1996 et al.) confirming its presence in Venezuela. S. serrulatus and S. eigenmanni, *according to Eschmeyer are found in the same countries, except S. serrulatus is not in Guyana according to the cited literatures*. Eschmeyer has questions on the fishes cited range by Jégu according to the databanks.
~end snip

~begin snip:
*I remain uncertain on this species*, since I have very little information on it from other localities including lack of photographs, and of course the historical problems with the humeralis group as a whole. Further complicated by historical description problems that included many fish in this group on a limited range of examination. The only present review was Fink and Machado-Allison (1996) pertaining to the Venezuela species. But subsequent follow ups by Jégu has left me very confused on species identification and its natural range that is beyond my understanding at this time. *For the time being, S. eigenmanni, S. hollandi, S. humeralis, S. nalseni and S. serrulatus, may be species that will remain an enigma for me*. With the influx of specimens at the hobbyist level and lack of actual locality data, will not make identifying this species any easier. Especially, those that might appear to be S. serrulatus, but may be S. eigenmanni instead.
~end snip

Sounds like something Frank might be able to offer some wisdom on...


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## Piranha-Freak101

Well from wat i read i feel like pedros assurance is not accurate lol


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## Smoke

piranha-freak101 said:


> Well from wat i read i feel like pedros assurance is not accurate lol


No one's info seems accurate







G has S. Eigenmanni for sale, and his is listed as being from "guyana"... if that makes you feel any better. Either ways, raise him up to be a killer.


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## Piranha-Freak101

Smoke said:


> Well from wat i read i feel like pedros assurance is not accurate lol


No one's info seems accurate







G has S. Eigenmanni for sale, and his is listed as being from "guyana"... if that makes you feel any better. Either ways, raise him up to be a killer.
[/quote]
Ohh believe me i will, i think my bad luck with baby blacks paid off because both serrulatus and mac are hand feeders right out of the bag.


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## Johnny_Zanni

Thats not a serrulatus lol

Pristobrycon striolatus


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## Piranha-Freak101

Dammit i hate pedro right now....


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## Guest

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Thats not a serrulatus lol
> 
> Pristobrycon striolatus










Ummm ya....... Dont listen to Zanni, he thinks he's an expert just because he owns a Serrulatus, lol.

You need a flank shot of this fish to get a proper ID


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## Tensa

i dont see serrulatus either really. i was trying to let everyone decide on their own. but the spotting looks off from what i can see. also shape is a bit off. can you try a photo of the P without flash?


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## Piranha-Freak101

Will do ill post it today


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## Piranha_man

I gotta admit, looks kinda like a _P. striolatus_ to me too.









It's got a mouth that leans me toward the _Pristobrycon_ genus.


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## Piranha-Freak101

His teeth look kinda funny too


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## Piranha_man

^^ Yeah, heh heh... and look at the way he walks!

What a dorkasalmus!


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## Piranha Guru

Based on the collection point and what appears to be small, speckled spotting, _S. humeralis_ seems more likely. According to OPEFE, _P. striolatus_ is not found in Peru.


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## Piranha_man

Piranha Guru said:


> Based on the collection point and what appears to be small, speckled spotting, _S. humeralis_ seems more likely. According to OPEFE, _P. striolatus_ is not found in Peru.


sh*t man, ya NEVER see those in the hobby, do ya?
They kinda look like a manny when they get older I think...

You ever seen one for sale?


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## Piranha-Freak101

Piranha Guru said:


> Based on the collection point and what appears to be small, speckled spotting, _S. humeralis_ seems more likely. According to OPEFE, _P. striolatus_ is not found in Peru.


Yes pedro did tell me the collection point was peru, but what if it isnt and pedro was just lying to confirm it was serrulatus


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## Grosse Gurke

Seriously? Anyone trying to ID a fish from those pictures is just guessing. Put the fish in the water and try to get a good flank picture.


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## BuckeyeGuy777

x2 GG

i cant tell anything...like a fish outta water


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## Johnny_Zanni

Piranha_man said:


> I gotta admit, looks kinda like a _P. striolatus_ to me too.
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> It's got a mouth that leans me toward the _Pristobrycon_ genus.


We are stupid man.


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## Johnny_Zanni

I think it looks nice none the less. If you wanna be daring then take a picture of its teeth. That will help us determine what genus it is in.


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## Tensa

Johnny_Zanni said:


> I gotta admit, looks kinda like a _P. striolatus_ to me too.
> 
> 
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> It's got a mouth that leans me toward the _Pristobrycon_ genus.


We are stupid man.
[/quote]
o boy guess im stupid too. God forbid a person ever lied about collection points


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## Piranha-Freak101

il try taking flank shots , lets just pray they come out clear


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## marilynmonroe

I'm gonna leave the id'ing to the experts. Nice piranha tho


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## Piranha-Freak101

marilynmonroe said:


> I'm gonna leave the id'ing to the experts. Nice piranha tho


Thanks


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## Grosse Gurke

Tensa said:


> o boy guess im stupid too. God forbid a person ever lied about collection points


As Frank always says...unless you pull the fish out of the water you will never know. Exporters get fish from a ton of sources....I doubt they care where the fish was caught.


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## Piranha-Freak101

Ok il try to get some flank shots today, but from the pictures iv already posted and the " peru collection point" what everyones best guess on what p he is


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## Johnny_Zanni

S.humeralis based on a peru collection point.


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## maknwar

Use a better camera for christs sake. Take more than just one pic of it 3 feet away too. Close ups, all sides of the fish and take some of it in the tank.


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## Johnny_Zanni

maknwar said:


> Use a better camera for christs sake. Take more than just one pic of it 3 feet away too. Close ups, all sides of the fish and take some of it in the tank.


Dont be an asshole. Not everyone has the luxury of a nice camera.


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## maknwar

Johnny_Zanni said:


> Use a better camera for christs sake. Take more than just one pic of it 3 feet away too. Close ups, all sides of the fish and take some of it in the tank.


Dont be an asshole. Not everyone has the luxury of a nice camera.
[/quote]

not being an asshole, but what he was using is not very good.


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## Johnny_Zanni

And he apologized for the not so great pictures. Either way it seems half the people who come in here want the person to hire a professional photographer to take the ID pictures cause they are never good enough.


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## Tensa

Grosse Gurke said:


> o boy guess im stupid too. God forbid a person ever lied about collection points


As Frank always says...unless you pull the fish out of the water you will never know. Exporters get fish from a ton of sources....I doubt they care where the fish was caught.
[/quote]
yea i agree. but as a consumer some of us do. we both know the power of a collection point and a name.


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## Grosse Gurke

I dont see any way to ID this fish based on the pictures I saw. Just take pictures of him in the water.



Tensa said:


> o boy guess im stupid too. God forbid a person ever lied about collection points


As Frank always says...unless you pull the fish out of the water you will never know. Exporters get fish from a ton of sources....I doubt they care where the fish was caught.
[/quote]
yea i agree. but as a consumer some of us do. we both know the power of a collection point and a name.
[/quote]
My point is that if you dont trust one importer for a collection point....you really shouldnt trust any importer for a collection point.


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## Tensa

i dont truthfully trust any importer or distributor for their "claimed" collection points on some fish.


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## Grosse Gurke

Warnings issued...keep it up and I am going to start suspending people.


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## Piranha-Freak101

ill try to get better pics tonight everyone


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## Johnny_Zanni

I still say Striolatus. Its definately not Serrulatus.


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## Piranha-Freak101

yea he has tiny speckled spots just like one, he looks alot like this striolatus but smaller Pristobrycon striolatus


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## Piranha Guru

piranha-freak101 said:


> yea he has tiny speckled spots just like one, he looks alot like this striolatus but smaller Pristobrycon striolatus


Only if it didn't come from Peru...S. humeralis is still the most likely based on the evidence provided (they have small spots too).


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## Johnny_Zanni

Piranha Guru said:


> yea he has tiny speckled spots just like one, he looks alot like this striolatus but smaller Pristobrycon striolatus


Only if it didn't come from Peru...S. humeralis is still the most likely based on the evidence provided (they have small spots too).
[/quote]

Its fact that Pedro has gotten Brazil and Venezuala shipments recently. Not hard to get mixed up.


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## Piranha-Freak101

I am srry to say he passed away due to his illness


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## Johnny_Zanni

Sorry man...


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## maknwar

Seriously? That was fast, sorry to hear that.


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## Piranha-Freak101

ik its not my fault because my params are perfect


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